SaaS Mag and How Startups Can Leverage Traditional Media with Thomas Smale – MicroConf On Air

and we are live welcome to this week's and we are live welcome to this week's episode of microconf on air i'm your episode of microconf on air i'm your episode of microconf on air i'm your host rob walling host rob walling host rob walling every wednesday we live stream for about every wednesday we live stream for about every wednesday we live stream for about 30 minutes we cover topics related to 30 minutes we cover topics related to 30 minutes we cover topics related to building and growing ambitious startups building and growing ambitious startups building and growing ambitious startups that don't require us to work 80-hour that don't require us to work 80-hour that don't require us to work 80-hour weeks raise millions in venture capital weeks raise millions in venture capital weeks raise millions in venture capital or drive us to the brink or drive us to the brink or drive us to the brink of burnout it's a great uh of burnout it's a great uh of burnout it's a great uh interesting week this week i'm actually interesting week this week i'm actually interesting week this week i'm actually it looks like i'm it looks like i'm it looks like i'm hovered or you know sitting over here in hovered or you know sitting over here in hovered or you know sitting over here in the corner in the dark the corner in the dark the corner in the dark thunder lightning outside and just thunder lightning outside and just thunder lightning outside and just trying to get a flight on me even to trying to get a flight on me even to trying to get a flight on me even to make this work has been a challenge so make this work has been a challenge so make this work has been a challenge so um it's gonna be a fun fun conversation um it's gonna be a fun fun conversation um it's gonna be a fun fun conversation today um speaking with today um speaking with today um speaking with uh mr thomas smail who you may have uh mr thomas smail who you may have uh mr thomas smail who you may have heard of he is the heard of he is the heard of he is the co-founder and editor-in-chief of sas co-founder and editor-in-chief of sas co-founder and editor-in-chief of sas mag and mag and mag and the co-founder of fe international which the co-founder of fe international which the co-founder of fe international which is a mergers and acquisitions is a mergers and acquisitions is a mergers and acquisitions uh broker in essence m a broker uh broker in essence m a broker uh broker in essence m a broker and we're going to talk about how and we're going to talk about how and we're going to talk about how startups can leverage traditional media startups can leverage traditional media startups can leverage traditional media focusing on his experience around sas focusing on his experience around sas focusing on his experience around sas mag mag mag so sas mag launched just a couple years so sas mag launched just a couple years so sas mag launched just a couple years ago and i believe it's ago and i believe it's ago and i believe it's on a quarterly publication schedule and on a quarterly publication schedule and on a quarterly publication schedule and um um um you know as editor-in-chief he obviously you know as editor-in-chief he obviously you know as editor-in-chief he obviously has experience has experience has experience with startups who want to be featured with startups who want to be featured with startups who want to be featured with with with uh press releases with uh press releases with uh press releases with media relationships with all that and media relationships with all that and media relationships with all that and and you know and you know and you know thomas has um quite a wealth of thomas has um quite a wealth of thomas has um quite a wealth of experience even before experience even before experience even before fe international he um owned a number of fe international he um owned a number of fe international he um owned a number of of of of websites and online properties and then websites and online properties and then websites and online properties and then turned that into turned that into turned that into a brokerage because he was buying and a brokerage because he was buying and a brokerage because he was buying and selling them and so you know he's been selling them and so you know he's been selling them and so you know he's been on the marketing side he's been on the marketing side he's been on the marketing side he's been now on the m a side and he sees a lot of

now on the m a side and he sees a lot of now on the m a side and he sees a lot of deals come through whether for deals come through whether for deals come through whether for sas applications um uh ecommerce sites sas applications um uh ecommerce sites sas applications um uh ecommerce sites you know wordpress plugins i don't know you know wordpress plugins i don't know you know wordpress plugins i don't know how many those they sell these days but how many those they sell these days but how many those they sell these days but all types of web properties that that all types of web properties that that all types of web properties that that come through fe come through fe come through fe and then when they decided to launch sas and then when they decided to launch sas and then when they decided to launch sas mag um mag um mag um you know that has become one of the kind you know that has become one of the kind you know that has become one of the kind of industry trade publication you know of industry trade publication you know of industry trade publication you know for for for for sas and it covers venture back and for sas and it covers venture back and for sas and it covers venture back and non-venture back i've read several non-venture back i've read several non-venture back i've read several issues and now i'm issues and now i'm issues and now i'm you know you know just thinking about on you know you know just thinking about on you know you know just thinking about on how how how he can help us learn from all the he can help us learn from all the he can help us learn from all the experience that he has experience that he has experience that he has if you have questions for thomas please if you have questions for thomas please if you have questions for thomas please put them in the micrograph on air put them in the micrograph on air put them in the micrograph on air channel in microconf connect channel in microconf connect channel in microconf connect if you're obviously if you're not if you're obviously if you're not if you're obviously if you're not microcontroller connect microcontroller connect microcontroller connect microgolfconnect.com we'll get you in microgolfconnect.com we'll get you in microgolfconnect.com we'll get you in there there there and then microconf on air is the channel and then microconf on air is the channel and then microconf on air is the channel that i monitor and producer xander is that i monitor and producer xander is that i monitor and producer xander is monitoring for your questions monitoring for your questions monitoring for your questions and the questions can rain from range and the questions can rain from range and the questions can rain from range from things that we're going to talk from things that we're going to talk from things that we're going to talk about like about like about like how startups can leverage traditional how startups can leverage traditional how startups can leverage traditional media you know being involved with this media you know being involved with this media you know being involved with this magazine and magazine and magazine and press releases and and media press releases and and media press releases and and media relationships or if you want to ask relationships or if you want to ask relationships or if you want to ask about about about sas valuations or about m a stuff about sas valuations or about m a stuff about sas valuations or about m a stuff about buy side sell side about you know any of buy side sell side about you know any of buy side sell side about you know any of that that that um thomas really is a wealth of um thomas really is a wealth of um thomas really is a wealth of knowledge so but to kick us off i'm knowledge so but to kick us off i'm knowledge so but to kick us off i'm curious curious curious you know what are some of the best you know what are some of the best you know what are some of the best stories founders can pitch stories founders can pitch stories founders can pitch that an outlet like sas mag or another that an outlet like sas mag or another that an outlet like sas mag or another magazine might want to cover like how magazine might want to cover like how magazine might want to cover like how how can founders get their story in the how can founders get their story in the how can founders get their story in the hands of the people that want to you hands of the people that want to you hands of the people that want to you know know know put them in in a magazine yes i think put them in in a magazine yes i think put them in in a magazine yes i think the first thing is the first thing is the first thing is there's no one-size-fits-all approach

there's no one-size-fits-all approach there's no one-size-fits-all approach the publication like sas mag the publication like sas mag the publication like sas mag or any you call it a trade publication or any you call it a trade publication or any you call it a trade publication which i think is a good way of talking which i think is a good way of talking which i think is a good way of talking about it about it about it they'll often have like some very they'll often have like some very they'll often have like some very specific things they want to talk about specific things they want to talk about specific things they want to talk about but also quite but also quite but also quite broad if you go to somewhere like a tech broad if you go to somewhere like a tech broad if you go to somewhere like a tech crunch crunch crunch i think traditionally they want to hear i think traditionally they want to hear i think traditionally they want to hear funding stories they want to hear about funding stories they want to hear about funding stories they want to hear about the company that raised the company that raised the company that raised 100 million dollars for their new ai 100 million dollars for their new ai 100 million dollars for their new ai idea idea idea or whatever it might be um whereas if or whatever it might be um whereas if or whatever it might be um whereas if you go to them say hey i just saw my you go to them say hey i just saw my you go to them say hey i just saw my bootstrap sas business for two million bootstrap sas business for two million bootstrap sas business for two million dollars like dollars like dollars like that's a fantastic outcome for that that's a fantastic outcome for that that's a fantastic outcome for that founder but techcrunch don't care founder but techcrunch don't care founder but techcrunch don't care um part of the reason we launched asmag um part of the reason we launched asmag um part of the reason we launched asmag in the first place is in the first place is in the first place is there was no uncovering what we thought there was no uncovering what we thought there was no uncovering what we thought people would want to know about people would want to know about people would want to know about um so firstly it's like know the um so firstly it's like know the um so firstly it's like know the publication pitching techcrunch and sas publication pitching techcrunch and sas publication pitching techcrunch and sas mag mag mag same article it's probably not going to same article it's probably not going to same article it's probably not going to be beneficial be beneficial be beneficial i think this is going for any outreach i think this is going for any outreach i think this is going for any outreach you're gonna do if you blast out you're gonna do if you blast out you're gonna do if you blast out 200 emails that's exactly the same thing 200 emails that's exactly the same thing 200 emails that's exactly the same thing to 200 different publications or 200 to 200 different publications or 200 to 200 different publications or 200 podcasts or 200 blogs podcasts or 200 blogs podcasts or 200 blogs whatever you're trying to achieve you're whatever you're trying to achieve you're whatever you're trying to achieve you're gonna get bad results so gonna get bad results so gonna get bad results so figure out what that publication is figure out what that publication is figure out what that publication is talking about talking about talking about ultimately they don't really care about ultimately they don't really care about ultimately they don't really care about you or what you think is important they you or what you think is important they you or what you think is important they think about think about think about what they think their audience thinks is what they think their audience thinks is what they think their audience thinks is important it's probably the easiest way important it's probably the easiest way important it's probably the easiest way of doing it of doing it of doing it is see what a particular journalist is see what a particular journalist is see what a particular journalist or the editor or whoever has published or the editor or whoever has published or the editor or whoever has published before before before and see what's done well for them there

and see what's done well for them there and see what's done well for them there are various tools out there you can kind are various tools out there you can kind are various tools out there you can kind of of of test and try to see what's been test and try to see what's been test and try to see what's been successful but i mean successful but i mean successful but i mean you know a very simple level you could you know a very simple level you could you know a very simple level you could go on their facebook page or twitter go on their facebook page or twitter go on their facebook page or twitter see how many shares or retweets a see how many shares or retweets a see how many shares or retweets a particular particular particular post has got and if it's been popular post has got and if it's been popular post has got and if it's been popular try and pitch something similar try and pitch something similar try and pitch something similar so it might be a could be a founder so it might be a could be a founder so it might be a could be a founder story story story something like sas mag we like founder something like sas mag we like founder something like sas mag we like founder stories stories stories but there are a lot of places that don't but there are a lot of places that don't but there are a lot of places that don't want to cover founder stories they want want to cover founder stories they want want to cover founder stories they want to talk about to talk about to talk about fundraising um so you really have to fundraising um so you really have to fundraising um so you really have to kind of put into context kind of put into context kind of put into context like that but i think the best way to do like that but i think the best way to do like that but i think the best way to do it is firstly it is firstly it is firstly figure out what a particular publication figure out what a particular publication figure out what a particular publication is talking about is talking about is talking about at the time what they've published in at the time what they've published in at the time what they've published in the past and to your best judgment the past and to your best judgment the past and to your best judgment what they've what they've been what they've what they've been what they've what they've been successful with in the past because successful with in the past because successful with in the past because ultimately ultimately ultimately most journalists and even even our team most journalists and even even our team most journalists and even even our team in the sas mag in the sas mag in the sas mag they're not judged by revenue because they're not judged by revenue because they're not judged by revenue because it's a it's a free magazine it's a it's a free magazine it's a it's a free magazine but we care about how popular a but we care about how popular a but we care about how popular a particular particular particular article is and what feedback we get so article is and what feedback we get so article is and what feedback we get so that's all someone that's all someone that's all someone a journalist or an editor is looking for a journalist or an editor is looking for a journalist or an editor is looking for it's kind of popularity it's kind of popularity it's kind of popularity if they think it's gonna be popular um if they think it's gonna be popular um if they think it's gonna be popular um then then then i would think that's the best place to i would think that's the best place to i would think that's the best place to start right start right start right yeah and i think that's good to get yeah and i think that's good to get yeah and i think that's good to get inside the mind of of a writer inside the mind of of a writer inside the mind of of a writer um or an editor is to think what is um or an editor is to think what is um or an editor is to think what is their end goal their end goal their end goal and starting with the end goal of page and starting with the end goal of page and starting with the end goal of page views or views or views or social shares or whatever that may be social shares or whatever that may be social shares or whatever that may be and then kind of backing in that if you and then kind of backing in that if you and then kind of backing in that if you are going to pitch um that you

are going to pitch um that you are going to pitch um that you you kind of craft the pitch around that you kind of craft the pitch around that you kind of craft the pitch around that i got a couple questions from audience i got a couple questions from audience i got a couple questions from audience members and i'd love to give those members and i'd love to give those members and i'd love to give those priority priority priority um you know just so we can dive in even um you know just so we can dive in even um you know just so we can dive in even though they're perhaps a left turn from though they're perhaps a left turn from though they're perhaps a left turn from the topic we were just talking about so the topic we were just talking about so the topic we were just talking about so these are more m a questions these are more m a questions these are more m a questions when buying a business with a plant and when buying a business with a plant and when buying a business with a plant and equipment those assets can be used to equipment those assets can be used to equipment those assets can be used to get get get financing to buy the business what are financing to buy the business what are financing to buy the business what are financing options for buying financing options for buying financing options for buying website or web-based businesses website or web-based businesses website or web-based businesses um so i guess the lazy answer is um so i guess the lazy answer is um so i guess the lazy answer is they're relatively limited um the vast they're relatively limited um the vast they're relatively limited um the vast majority of buyers we work with either majority of buyers we work with either majority of buyers we work with either have their own cash have their own cash have their own cash or they've already raised cash from or they've already raised cash from or they've already raised cash from someone else someone else someone else um the most common form of bank um the most common form of bank um the most common form of bank financing we see financing we see financing we see is an sba loan uh sba loans is an sba loan uh sba loans is an sba loan uh sba loans are somewhat restrictive and they have are somewhat restrictive and they have are somewhat restrictive and they have a bunch of different rules and a bunch of different rules and a bunch of different rules and regulations around what you need to do regulations around what you need to do regulations around what you need to do in order to get one and that generally in order to get one and that generally in order to get one and that generally starts with starts with starts with years of tax returns on the business so years of tax returns on the business so years of tax returns on the business so generally if the business is based in generally if the business is based in generally if the business is based in the us the us the us or the owner of the business is based in or the owner of the business is based in or the owner of the business is based in the us and the business is at least five the us and the business is at least five the us and the business is at least five years old years old years old it's reasonably likely it will qualify it's reasonably likely it will qualify it's reasonably likely it will qualify for sba for sba for sba um if not then it can be um if not then it can be um if not then it can be challenging um so i guess the short challenging um so i guess the short challenging um so i guess the short answer is answer is answer is there are not too many ways to do it there are not too many ways to do it there are not too many ways to do it unless you have an sba qualified unless you have an sba qualified unless you have an sba qualified business or you have access to capital business or you have access to capital business or you have access to capital yourself yourself yourself um so i guess that somewhat created a um so i guess that somewhat created a um so i guess that somewhat created a barrier to entry in there barrier to entry in there barrier to entry in there in the industry where the vast majority in the industry where the vast majority in the industry where the vast majority of

of of buyers out there are already buyers out there are already buyers out there are already independently wealthy or have access to independently wealthy or have access to independently wealthy or have access to capital that capital that capital that when you're starting out might be a when you're starting out might be a when you're starting out might be a little bit more difficult little bit more difficult little bit more difficult right right and seller financing as well right right and seller financing as well right right and seller financing as well right if a seller is willing to right if a seller is willing to right if a seller is willing to yeah exactly 68 yeah exactly 68 yeah exactly 68 yeah i'd say the rule of thumb we tend yeah i'd say the rule of thumb we tend yeah i'd say the rule of thumb we tend to tell people is to tell people is to tell people is if a business is below half a million if a business is below half a million if a business is below half a million you're probably going to be paying cash you're probably going to be paying cash you're probably going to be paying cash above that level you can definitely get above that level you can definitely get above that level you can definitely get seller financing seller financing seller financing um and again this is um and again this is um and again this is seems somewhat i don't know if you seems somewhat i don't know if you seems somewhat i don't know if you describe it as like elitist describe it as like elitist describe it as like elitist or a barrier to entry but the more of a or a barrier to entry but the more of a or a barrier to entry but the more of a track record you have track record you have track record you have and the more successful you've been the and the more successful you've been the and the more successful you've been the more likely you want more likely you want more likely you want to get seller financing so if to get seller financing so if to get seller financing so if you sold a business to 10 million you sold a business to 10 million you sold a business to 10 million dollars and you say hey i'll pay you dollars and you say hey i'll pay you dollars and you say hey i'll pay you 60 up front and 10 of the revenue for 60 up front and 10 of the revenue for 60 up front and 10 of the revenue for the next three years the next three years the next three years i'm going to grow the business then i'm going to grow the business then i'm going to grow the business then you're more likely to accept that deal you're more likely to accept that deal you're more likely to accept that deal than from the person who's than from the person who's than from the person who's like first time buyer is a little bit like first time buyer is a little bit like first time buyer is a little bit nervous and has never run a business nervous and has never run a business nervous and has never run a business before before before well what so that's good that's good well what so that's good that's good well what so that's good that's good info um about seller financing and about info um about seller financing and about info um about seller financing and about sba that was sba that was sba that was my understanding as well second question my understanding as well second question my understanding as well second question on on on mna stuff it's from rahul in microsoft mna stuff it's from rahul in microsoft mna stuff it's from rahul in microsoft on air he says on air he says on air he says what action items would you suggest for what action items would you suggest for what action items would you suggest for non-usd based non-usd based non-usd based sas products wanting to sell and market sas products wanting to sell and market sas products wanting to sell and market for us for us for us based small and medium-sized business based small and medium-sized business based small and medium-sized business customers customers customers yeah this is something i did did myself yeah this is something i did did myself yeah this is something i did did myself moving i mean moving i mean moving i mean f international the backstory as we were

f international the backstory as we were f international the backstory as we were originally founded in the uk originally founded in the uk originally founded in the uk we moved out to the us um i think it we moved out to the us um i think it we moved out to the us um i think it does depend a little bit on your does depend a little bit on your does depend a little bit on your audience i think some people audience i think some people audience i think some people want to see that you are physically want to see that you are physically want to see that you are physically based in the us based in the us based in the us um so part of the reason i now live in um so part of the reason i now live in um so part of the reason i now live in the us is i spend a lot of my time the us is i spend a lot of my time the us is i spend a lot of my time as you know traveling to conferences and as you know traveling to conferences and as you know traveling to conferences and events um events um events um like michael month and meeting different like michael month and meeting different like michael month and meeting different people in person people in person people in person if you have a sas business and a lot of if you have a sas business and a lot of if you have a sas business and a lot of other businesses that's not necessary so other businesses that's not necessary so other businesses that's not necessary so your physical location shouldn't matter your physical location shouldn't matter your physical location shouldn't matter too much too much too much um a lot of people ask us if you're um a lot of people ask us if you're um a lot of people ask us if you're thinking about selling the business in thinking about selling the business in thinking about selling the business in the future the future the future again it doesn't really matter where again it doesn't really matter where again it doesn't really matter where you're based um you're based um you're based um now in the future um buyers generally now in the future um buyers generally now in the future um buyers generally don't really care don't really care don't really care if the beauty of this industry is you if the beauty of this industry is you if the beauty of this industry is you can run a business from can run a business from can run a business from from anywhere so it isn't actually any from anywhere so it isn't actually any from anywhere so it isn't actually any reason why you need to be based in a reason why you need to be based in a reason why you need to be based in a specific place specific place specific place um if you really need to in the short um if you really need to in the short um if you really need to in the short term something we did years ago before term something we did years ago before term something we did years ago before we we we physically moved out to the us is you physically moved out to the us is you physically moved out to the us is you can rent an office space can rent an office space can rent an office space go for a wework or a register or go for a wework or a register or go for a wework or a register or something like that something like that something like that and physically get an office space um and physically get an office space um and physically get an office space um you can get a us phone number you can get a us phone number you can get a us phone number all of those kind of things that are all of those kind of things that are all of those kind of things that are easy to do um easy to do um easy to do um but i think if you're trying to pretend but i think if you're trying to pretend but i think if you're trying to pretend you are saying that you are not you are saying that you are not you are saying that you are not in the long run that's probably not in the long run that's probably not in the long run that's probably not going to be the most successful going to be the most successful going to be the most successful strategy for you so my suggestion strategy for you so my suggestion strategy for you so my suggestion would be figure out if you truly you would be figure out if you truly you would be figure out if you truly you need to be need to be need to be um in the us one thing you definitely do um in the us one thing you definitely do um in the us one thing you definitely do need to do need to do need to do um is have the ability to work around

um is have the ability to work around um is have the ability to work around us time zones um if you're not able to us time zones um if you're not able to us time zones um if you're not able to do that i think you're really going to do that i think you're really going to do that i think you're really going to struggle doing struggle doing struggle doing business in in the us in general and business in in the us in general and business in in the us in general and that to me has always been that to me has always been that to me has always been the biggest factor people don't really the biggest factor people don't really the biggest factor people don't really care what you're based as long as you care what you're based as long as you care what you're based as long as you work around them um and then like i said work around them um and then like i said work around them um and then like i said if you need a physical location if you need a physical location if you need a physical location get a physical location but for the vast get a physical location but for the vast get a physical location but for the vast majority of businesses majority of businesses majority of businesses it's not a problem that's it's not a problem that's it's not a problem that's that was the big one i was going to that was the big one i was going to that was the big one i was going to mention is i think folks in the us mention is i think folks in the us mention is i think folks in the us especially with sas are used to a lot of especially with sas are used to a lot of especially with sas are used to a lot of them being located here and so they are them being located here and so they are them being located here and so they are used to if there's live chat used to if there's live chat used to if there's live chat that it is you know there's manned you that it is you know there's manned you that it is you know there's manned you know 9am to 5pm or whatever know 9am to 5pm or whatever know 9am to 5pm or whatever um during us hours or if it's email um during us hours or if it's email um during us hours or if it's email support that it's not this 24-hour lag support that it's not this 24-hour lag support that it's not this 24-hour lag there are obvious exceptions there are obvious exceptions there are obvious exceptions um but you know even the australian sas um but you know even the australian sas um but you know even the australian sas i think like zeros based in australia i think like zeros based in australia i think like zeros based in australia like they have like they have like they have staff that is doing business you know staff that is doing business you know staff that is doing business you know that is doing support during business that is doing support during business that is doing support during business hours you know around the world hours you know around the world hours you know around the world i think the only other two other things i think the only other two other things i think the only other two other things i would say are pretty obvious but i would say are pretty obvious but i would say are pretty obvious but um obviously you need everything needs um obviously you need everything needs um obviously you need everything needs to be in english because to be in english because to be in english because so many people in the us don't speak a so many people in the us don't speak a so many people in the us don't speak a second language and second language and second language and um pricing in u.s dollars because folks um pricing in u.s dollars because folks um pricing in u.s dollars because folks are turned off here by euros and pounds are turned off here by euros and pounds are turned off here by euros and pounds as odd as that as odd as that as odd as that you know as odd as that may sound i know you know as odd as that may sound i know you know as odd as that may sound i know there's more tolerance for that in other there's more tolerance for that in other there's more tolerance for that in other parts of the world but parts of the world but parts of the world but u.s folks businesses tend to be you know u.s folks businesses tend to be you know u.s folks businesses tend to be you know pretty um pretty um pretty um focused on the dollar so those are the focused on the dollar so those are the focused on the dollar so those are the three things i'd be thinking about three things i'd be thinking about three things i'd be thinking about all right oh okay so rahul is clarifying all right oh okay so rahul is clarifying all right oh okay so rahul is clarifying he said my question was more on how to he said my question was more on how to he said my question was more on how to do do do our pr and marketing if we are a non-us

our pr and marketing if we are a non-us our pr and marketing if we are a non-us company company company and for all in on that first i mean i and for all in on that first i mean i and for all in on that first i mean i don't i just don't know that there's i don't i just don't know that there's i don't i just don't know that there's i don't know how much of a don't know how much of a don't know how much of a difference i don't know that anyone difference i don't know that anyone difference i don't know that anyone cares you know it depends on what kind cares you know it depends on what kind cares you know it depends on what kind of marketing you're doing if you're of marketing you're doing if you're of marketing you're doing if you're doing great content doing great content doing great content i don't look to see where the company is i don't look to see where the company is i don't look to see where the company is if i'm reading your blog post if you're if i'm reading your blog post if you're if i'm reading your blog post if you're running ads on running ads on running ads on facebook or i'm clicking through a facebook or i'm clicking through a facebook or i'm clicking through a google ad like i don't know that google ad like i don't know that google ad like i don't know that that there's much of a difference for me that there's much of a difference for me that there's much of a difference for me the only thing i sometimes know is is the only thing i sometimes know is is the only thing i sometimes know is is the way that uk english and and you know the way that uk english and and you know the way that uk english and and you know american english have american english have american english have oh versus oh you or there's there's oh versus oh you or there's there's oh versus oh you or there's there's spellings that will tip me off to hey spellings that will tip me off to hey spellings that will tip me off to hey this someone's in europe but this someone's in europe but this someone's in europe but that isn't necessarily a huge huge issue that isn't necessarily a huge huge issue that isn't necessarily a huge huge issue i think i think i think what are your thoughts thomas yeah i what are your thoughts thomas yeah i what are your thoughts thomas yeah i would agree i mean there are some would agree i mean there are some would agree i mean there are some exceptions so if you're exceptions so if you're exceptions so if you're if you're publishing i'm in san if you're publishing i'm in san if you're publishing i'm in san francisco if you publish francisco if you publish francisco if you publish the san francisco chronicle something the san francisco chronicle something the san francisco chronicle something like that like that like that they probably want stories about they probably want stories about they probably want stories about companies from san francisco um companies from san francisco um companies from san francisco um some outlets will care about your some outlets will care about your some outlets will care about your location location location the vast majority will not um the vast majority will not um the vast majority will not um and i mean talk about a place like san and i mean talk about a place like san and i mean talk about a place like san francisco for example francisco for example francisco for example the not the vast majority i don't the not the vast majority i don't the not the vast majority i don't actually know the data but a lot of the actually know the data but a lot of the actually know the data but a lot of the companies here are run by people who are companies here are run by people who are companies here are run by people who are immigrants either first or second immigrants either first or second immigrants either first or second generation so generation so generation so it's very normal to be hey this is it's very normal to be hey this is it's very normal to be hey this is thomas from thomas from thomas from england it's not uncommon at all so i england it's not uncommon at all so i england it's not uncommon at all so i would say would say would say to answer the question in a very direct to answer the question in a very direct to answer the question in a very direct way i think you're way i think you're way i think you're overthinking it if you're worried about overthinking it if you're worried about overthinking it if you're worried about pitching for press if you think pitching for press if you think pitching for press if you think if you think your location is the only if you think your location is the only if you think your location is the only reason why reason why reason why you're struggling to get press if that

you're struggling to get press if that you're struggling to get press if that is the actual issue then that's probably is the actual issue then that's probably is the actual issue then that's probably not the actual case there are probably not the actual case there are probably not the actual case there are probably other factors involved other factors involved other factors involved yeah yeah and that's i think there's yeah yeah and that's i think there's yeah yeah and that's i think there's press is one thing and marketing you press is one thing and marketing you press is one thing and marketing you know know know it really depends on the channels you're it really depends on the channels you're it really depends on the channels you're using i think another question that we using i think another question that we using i think another question that we had for you had for you had for you um is you often hear like hey if you are um is you often hear like hey if you are um is you often hear like hey if you are going to do pr if you are going to try going to do pr if you are going to try going to do pr if you are going to try to get written up to get written up to get written up that you should look at building that you should look at building that you should look at building relationships you know whether it's relationships you know whether it's relationships you know whether it's relationship with an editor with a relationship with an editor with a relationship with an editor with a magazine with an magazine with an magazine with an with a writer like what are some of the with a writer like what are some of the with a writer like what are some of the best ways you've best ways you've best ways you've seen people build those relationships to seen people build those relationships to seen people build those relationships to get get get um coverage over time right because this um coverage over time right because this um coverage over time right because this is not a pr is not a one-time thing if is not a pr is not a one-time thing if is not a pr is not a one-time thing if you want to get written up in you want to get written up in you want to get written up in sas mag or as you know as you've sas mag or as you know as you've sas mag or as you know as you've mentioned techcrunch or any other outlet mentioned techcrunch or any other outlet mentioned techcrunch or any other outlet you're gonna want that periodically as you're gonna want that periodically as you're gonna want that periodically as you launch something big as you get on you launch something big as you get on you launch something big as you get on the inc 5000 as you raise a round of the inc 5000 as you raise a round of the inc 5000 as you raise a round of funding you know as you sell whatever it funding you know as you sell whatever it funding you know as you sell whatever it is is is so having these relationships um can be so having these relationships um can be so having these relationships um can be valuable valuable valuable what are some of the best ways you've what are some of the best ways you've what are some of the best ways you've seen folks build relationships with seen folks build relationships with seen folks build relationships with the writers or the editors yes i think the writers or the editors yes i think the writers or the editors yes i think if you look towards if you look towards if you look towards if you're on an ongoing relationship if you're on an ongoing relationship if you're on an ongoing relationship like first impressions are really like first impressions are really like first impressions are really important important important so assuming your pitch is successful and so assuming your pitch is successful and so assuming your pitch is successful and you get accepted by a publication or you get accepted by a publication or you get accepted by a publication or multiple publications multiple publications multiple publications and that will happen you'll get lots and and that will happen you'll get lots and and that will happen you'll get lots and lots of no's and you'll always get notes lots of no's and you'll always get notes lots of no's and you'll always get notes for for for kind of the entire history of your kind of the entire history of your kind of the entire history of your business but some people will say yes business but some people will say yes business but some people will say yes once you get a yes once you get a yes once you get a yes it's really important to first see i it's really important to first see i it's really important to first see i appreciate this is ironic seeing as my appreciate this is ironic seeing as my appreciate this is ironic seeing as my video cut out midway through the stream

video cut out midway through the stream video cut out midway through the stream but it's being reliable and being but it's being reliable and being but it's being reliable and being available so it's kind of available so it's kind of available so it's kind of doing everything that the producer or doing everything that the producer or doing everything that the producer or editor or whatever it editor or whatever it editor or whatever it is wants so making their life making is wants so making their life making is wants so making their life making their life easier their life easier their life easier so not doing what i'm doing here at the so not doing what i'm doing here at the so not doing what i'm doing here at the zander but doing what zander but doing what zander but doing what providing content on time um being providing content on time um being providing content on time um being receptive to changes receptive to changes receptive to changes i think a lot of founders get quite i think a lot of founders get quite i think a lot of founders get quite protective over their protective over their protective over their kind of content and their style but kind of content and their style but kind of content and their style but ultimately the editor is the one or the ultimately the editor is the one or the ultimately the editor is the one or the engineering chief is ultimately the one engineering chief is ultimately the one engineering chief is ultimately the one who has who has who has final say on what content goes out so if final say on what content goes out so if final say on what content goes out so if they give you feedback they give you feedback they give you feedback even if you don't necessarily like it even if you don't necessarily like it even if you don't necessarily like it when you're starting out my suggestion when you're starting out my suggestion when you're starting out my suggestion would be would be would be just go with it um and then the really just go with it um and then the really just go with it um and then the really important thing is once the important thing is once the important thing is once the content or your article or video or content or your article or video or content or your article or video or whatever it is is published whatever it is is published whatever it is is published make sure you're putting the effort into make sure you're putting the effort into make sure you're putting the effort into promote it promote it promote it um sharing on all your channels because um sharing on all your channels because um sharing on all your channels because ultimately if the piece is successful ultimately if the piece is successful ultimately if the piece is successful um it's very much the meritocracy the um it's very much the meritocracy the um it's very much the meritocracy the journalist or the editor will then want journalist or the editor will then want journalist or the editor will then want to work with you again to work with you again to work with you again um and they'll come back if you don't um and they'll come back if you don't um and they'll come back if you don't bother sharing it or you don't put any bother sharing it or you don't put any bother sharing it or you don't put any effort in effort in effort in um you're not thankful to the um you're not thankful to the um you're not thankful to the journalists journalists journalists and there's thousands of other people in and there's thousands of other people in and there's thousands of other people in their inbox who their inbox who their inbox who will do a better job um so i guess that will do a better job um so i guess that will do a better job um so i guess that is is is another thing this might be extremely another thing this might be extremely another thing this might be extremely obvious but obvious but obvious but like journalists and editors are real like journalists and editors are real like journalists and editors are real people send them a people send them a people send them a send them a thank you note saying really send them a thank you note saying really send them a thank you note saying really appreciate you featuring me appreciate you featuring me appreciate you featuring me happy to be a resource again in the happy to be a resource again in the happy to be a resource again in the future so it may well be you start out future so it may well be you start out future so it may well be you start out by um something you might just start out by

um something you might just start out by for example with sas mag we often for example with sas mag we often for example with sas mag we often feature people just on our blog feature people just on our blog feature people just on our blog and you might just provide a one-line and you might just provide a one-line and you might just provide a one-line quote quote quote for a particular blog post and it might for a particular blog post and it might for a particular blog post and it might be the first person to reply to her be the first person to reply to her be the first person to reply to her email out of 10 people email email out of 10 people email email out of 10 people email get the quote and then that quote might get the quote and then that quote might get the quote and then that quote might then turn into a then turn into a then turn into a uh interview on our blog and then if the uh interview on our blog and then if the uh interview on our blog and then if the blog post does well blog post does well blog post does well um you then i guess graduate to the um you then i guess graduate to the um you then i guess graduate to the print version of the magazine print version of the magazine print version of the magazine um so that's how we look at it every um so that's how we look at it every um so that's how we look at it every publication will be slightly different publication will be slightly different publication will be slightly different but for us it's kind of you can kind of but for us it's kind of you can kind of but for us it's kind of you can kind of graduate up from graduate up from graduate up from kind of quote to full article to kind of quote to full article to kind of quote to full article to front page um so that's definitely a way front page um so that's definitely a way front page um so that's definitely a way to look at it to look at it to look at it and like you mentioned already robert is and like you mentioned already robert is and like you mentioned already robert is a is a long-term thing a is a long-term thing a is a long-term thing you're not going to get kind of on the you're not going to get kind of on the you're not going to get kind of on the front page in a month front page in a month front page in a month expect these things to take usually expect these things to take usually expect these things to take usually years years years or definitely months to make any sort of or definitely months to make any sort of or definitely months to make any sort of progress particularly with a publication progress particularly with a publication progress particularly with a publication which which which like sas mag is published every quarter like sas mag is published every quarter like sas mag is published every quarter we generally know what content is going we generally know what content is going we generally know what content is going in in in for the next almost the next 12 months for the next almost the next 12 months for the next almost the next 12 months in advance in advance in advance and when that will just change the the and when that will just change the the and when that will just change the the topics but the people who are being topics but the people who are being topics but the people who are being included included included are usually somewhat fixed yeah that's that's good advice i like i yeah that's that's good advice i like i like that uh thought process about like that uh thought process about like that uh thought process about almost graduating from the blog to uh almost graduating from the blog to uh almost graduating from the blog to uh you know up up you know up up you know up up into the magazine um yeah that's cool into the magazine um yeah that's cool into the magazine um yeah that's cool i've also heard i've also heard i've also heard advice given and i've never done this advice given and i've never done this advice given and i've never done this personally but hey if there's a reporter

personally but hey if there's a reporter personally but hey if there's a reporter that you see or that you see or that you see or a writer that you see writing at a writer that you see writing at a writer that you see writing at whatever whatever whatever whether it's sass mag or techcrunch or whether it's sass mag or techcrunch or whether it's sass mag or techcrunch or whatever follow them on twitter and whatever follow them on twitter and whatever follow them on twitter and engage with them and if you as you engage with them and if you as you engage with them and if you as you become known to them become known to them become known to them they start to get curious i've had they start to get curious i've had they start to get curious i've had people do this to me and wind up on people do this to me and wind up on people do this to me and wind up on startups for the rest of us you know or startups for the rest of us you know or startups for the rest of us you know or wind up on microcom stage wind up on microcom stage wind up on microcom stage where i start seeing their name and i'm where i start seeing their name and i'm where i start seeing their name and i'm like how this person's like interacting like how this person's like interacting like how this person's like interacting in a lot of conversations that i am and in a lot of conversations that i am and in a lot of conversations that i am and i haven't i don't know them yet so i i haven't i don't know them yet so i i haven't i don't know them yet so i click through click through click through and i start learning about them oh and i start learning about them oh and i start learning about them oh they're running an app that's they're running an app that's they're running an app that's interesting and then i hear them on a interesting and then i hear them on a interesting and then i hear them on a podcast podcast podcast a month later and i'm like oh that's a month later and i'm like oh that's a month later and i'm like oh that's that person who did you know and that person who did you know and that person who did you know and suddenly you start connecting the dots suddenly you start connecting the dots suddenly you start connecting the dots i'm curious if you feel like that i'm curious if you feel like that i'm curious if you feel like that um is is a feasible approach for um is is a feasible approach for um is is a feasible approach for to get in the door i would say to get in the door i would say to get in the door i would say definitely um definitely um definitely um because talking about successful pitches because talking about successful pitches because talking about successful pitches um um um it's very obvious to someone sent you an it's very obvious to someone sent you an it's very obvious to someone sent you an individual email like you already individual email like you already individual email like you already mentioned mentioned mentioned it's also very obvious if someone is it's also very obvious if someone is it's also very obvious if someone is actually specifically actually specifically actually specifically read or watched what you've said or read or watched what you've said or read or watched what you've said or written written written and i guess this this also counts for and i guess this this also counts for and i guess this this also counts for getting like busy people getting like busy people getting like busy people like founders to reply for example if like founders to reply for example if like founders to reply for example if you want me to reply to an email you want me to reply to an email you want me to reply to an email um it's cold if you have very obviously um it's cold if you have very obviously um it's cold if you have very obviously read or listen to something i've said read or listen to something i've said read or listen to something i've said in the past and you have a question in the past and you have a question in the past and you have a question about it i will almost always respond to about it i will almost always respond to about it i will almost always respond to that email that email that email if you send me a generic email where you if you send me a generic email where you if you send me a generic email where you clearly have not and you just want clearly have not and you just want clearly have not and you just want kind of generic advice it's highly kind of generic advice it's highly kind of generic advice it's highly unlikely i will unlikely i will unlikely i will um enter and listen editors are exactly um enter and listen editors are exactly um enter and listen editors are exactly the same the same the same because a lot of them are they like because a lot of them are they like because a lot of them are they like writing writing writing and they learn to be intellectually and they learn to be intellectually and they learn to be intellectually challenged and they like to talk and challenged and they like to talk and challenged and they like to talk and discuss the content they have

discuss the content they have discuss the content they have written about or produced in the in the written about or produced in the in the written about or produced in the in the past past past so if you engage with them in a genuine so if you engage with them in a genuine so if you engage with them in a genuine way um way um way um i wouldn't try and be annoying about it i wouldn't try and be annoying about it i wouldn't try and be annoying about it so don't so don't so don't constantly kind of tweet them but constantly kind of tweet them but constantly kind of tweet them but sharing their stuff sharing their stuff sharing their stuff um i think is always a a good way to go um i think is always a a good way to go um i think is always a a good way to go um and you should be doing this way um and you should be doing this way um and you should be doing this way before you have anything to before you have anything to before you have anything to to pitch them so hopefully by the time to pitch them so hopefully by the time to pitch them so hopefully by the time you are pitching you are pitching you are pitching it's not actually a cold email at all it's not actually a cold email at all it's not actually a cold email at all because they at least because they at least because they at least recognize your name or think they recognize your name or think they recognize your name or think they recognize your name recognize your name recognize your name so in the sea of 500 emails they've so in the sea of 500 emails they've so in the sea of 500 emails they've received that day received that day received that day if they see the surname warning they're if they see the surname warning they're if they see the surname warning they're like i've heard of this guy before i like i've heard of this guy before i like i've heard of this guy before i think he's got a think he's got a think he's got a podcast and then they're gonna more podcast and then they're gonna more podcast and then they're gonna more likely to read your email likely to read your email likely to read your email yeah for sure well thank you sir thanks yeah for sure well thank you sir thanks yeah for sure well thank you sir thanks so much for uh coming on the show we're so much for uh coming on the show we're so much for uh coming on the show we're at time for today at time for today at time for today folks want to follow you on twitter you folks want to follow you on twitter you folks want to follow you on twitter you are at thomas are at thomas are at thomas smail it's s-m-a-l-e and of course sas smail it's s-m-a-l-e and of course sas smail it's s-m-a-l-e and of course sas mag is at mag is at mag is at sas mag on twitter and sasmag.com sas mag on twitter and sasmag.com sas mag on twitter and sasmag.com thanks for joining me on uh microconfig thanks for joining me on uh microconfig thanks for joining me on uh microconfig air today sir air today sir air today sir thanks so much rob thanks everyone all thanks so much rob thanks everyone all thanks so much rob thanks everyone all right right right i want to tell you about micro golf i want to tell you about micro golf i want to tell you about micro golf remote it is september remote it is september remote it is september 1st and we want to hear your story 1st and we want to hear your story 1st and we want to hear your story you can head to microcomremote.com and you can head to microcomremote.com and you can head to microcomremote.com and if you submit a 60-second video sharing if you submit a 60-second video sharing if you submit a 60-second video sharing a story about a win a fail a story about a win a fail a story about a win a fail or your favorite microcomp memory you or your favorite microcomp memory you or your favorite microcomp memory you can get 50 off your ticket can get 50 off your ticket can get 50 off your ticket to microcomp remote even if you don't to microcomp remote even if you don't to microcomp remote even if you don't want to do that you should head there want to do that you should head there want to do that you should head there and get a ticket because we're it's and get a ticket because we're it's and get a ticket because we're it's going to be a really cool event um this going to be a really cool event um this going to be a really cool event um this is not the typical virtual summit that

is not the typical virtual summit that is not the typical virtual summit that you've been attending you've been attending you've been attending uh we're really going all in on some uh we're really going all in on some uh we're really going all in on some novel and novel and novel and creative ideas and have been hustling creative ideas and have been hustling creative ideas and have been hustling and working to do something that is just and working to do something that is just and working to do something that is just it's gonna be five hours of coolness and it's gonna be five hours of coolness and it's gonna be five hours of coolness and i don't think you're gonna want to miss