Acquire Customers with Capterra with Eran Galperin

we found that even with a very small we found that even with a very small budget I was getting maybe four or five budget I was getting maybe four or five budget I was getting maybe four or five leads a month leads a month leads a month with basically no spend this is when we with basically no spend this is when we with basically no spend this is when we were just getting started over time we were just getting started over time we were just getting started over time we kind of learned the ins and outs of how kind of learned the ins and outs of how kind of learned the ins and outs of how to gain that algorithm to a degree and to gain that algorithm to a degree and to gain that algorithm to a degree and optimize our spend and now we're optimize our spend and now we're optimize our spend and now we're generating between 40 and 50 leads a generating between 40 and 50 leads a generating between 40 and 50 leads a month and growing it's a very good month and growing it's a very good month and growing it's a very good channel for us one of our major channels channel for us one of our major channels channel for us one of our major channels for acquiring users I'm excited to get for acquiring users I'm excited to get for acquiring users I'm excited to get into this as nerdy as this topic is it into this as nerdy as this topic is it into this as nerdy as this topic is it is um I think a really intriguing one is um I think a really intriguing one is um I think a really intriguing one and one that a lot of people most people and one that a lot of people most people and one that a lot of people most people don't know much about like we hear this don't know much about like we hear this don't know much about like we hear this term captera but it's like what is that term captera but it's like what is that term captera but it's like what is that site and why should I care and that's site and why should I care and that's site and why should I care and that's why you're here today right so let me why you're here today right so let me why you're here today right so let me start with a little bit of an start with a little bit of an start with a little bit of an introduction I'm around I'm the founder introduction I'm around I'm the founder introduction I'm around I'm the founder of gym desk we provide online management of gym desk we provide online management of gym desk we provide online management software for gems and other Fitness and software for gems and other Fitness and software for gems and other Fitness and Wellness businesses Wellness businesses Wellness businesses um I got to know captera a little bit um I got to know captera a little bit um I got to know captera a little bit um as I was starting out um as I was starting out um as I was starting out um my initial inclination is to start um my initial inclination is to start um my initial inclination is to start with SEO and try to get some organic with SEO and try to get some organic with SEO and try to get some organic traffic I didn't have a lot of money to traffic I didn't have a lot of money to traffic I didn't have a lot of money to spend spend spend um bootstrap no no funding um bootstrap no no funding um bootstrap no no funding and captera always uh showed up in the and captera always uh showed up in the and captera always uh showed up in the top results for many of our best queries top results for many of our best queries top results for many of our best queries um so I created a listing um so I created a listing um so I created a listing and and and um um um once you create a listing

once you create a listing once you create a listing and you're ready to publish it's when and you're ready to publish it's when and you're ready to publish it's when you realize that captera though you realize that captera though you realize that captera though appearing to be a comparison website on appearing to be a comparison website on appearing to be a comparison website on the outside the outside the outside is actually a pay per click ad Network is actually a pay per click ad Network is actually a pay per click ad Network um you pay to you bid to appear in the um you pay to you bid to appear in the um you pay to you bid to appear in the results for a specific category you can results for a specific category you can results for a specific category you can show up on multiple categories but show up on multiple categories but show up on multiple categories but you're competing against other brands you're competing against other brands you're competing against other brands that are bidding against you to show up that are bidding against you to show up that are bidding against you to show up in the results in the results in the results um um um their whole presentation is that of a their whole presentation is that of a their whole presentation is that of a software comparison website where users software comparison website where users software comparison website where users your users review you and other users your users review you and other users your users review you and other users can use that as information to pick a can use that as information to pick a can use that as information to pick a tool tool tool um but in reality while the reviews do um but in reality while the reviews do um but in reality while the reviews do play a small part play a small part play a small part what they do is they capture your what they do is they capture your what they do is they capture your reviews and then they make you pay to reviews and then they make you pay to reviews and then they make you pay to show them to potential customers show them to potential customers show them to potential customers um captera is actually a network of free um captera is actually a network of free um captera is actually a network of free websites websites websites um and something that's also not obvious um and something that's also not obvious um and something that's also not obvious when you first run into it uh captera when you first run into it uh captera when you first run into it uh captera get app and software advice so get app and software advice so get app and software advice so um on the surface it looks like separate um on the surface it looks like separate um on the surface it looks like separate websites but once you sign up for websites but once you sign up for websites but once you sign up for captera and you set up your profile you captera and you set up your profile you captera and you set up your profile you see that you can actually set up your see that you can actually set up your see that you can actually set up your profile on free websites from the same profile on free websites from the same profile on free websites from the same interface interface interface um all free websites are owned by um all free websites are owned by um all free websites are owned by Gartner I believe they also do a lot of Gartner I believe they also do a lot of Gartner I believe they also do a lot of analytics and Reporting

analytics and Reporting analytics and Reporting and uh you basically manage it like you and uh you basically manage it like you and uh you basically manage it like you with Google ads you have listings you with Google ads you have listings you with Google ads you have listings you have bids categories have bids categories have bids categories um different Target URLs to landing um different Target URLs to landing um different Target URLs to landing pages uh they have a lot of resources to pages uh they have a lot of resources to pages uh they have a lot of resources to help you set up landing pages they have help you set up landing pages they have help you set up landing pages they have a lot of data on a lot of data on a lot of data on converting landing pages converting landing pages converting landing pages and it's basically an ad Network that and it's basically an ad Network that and it's basically an ad Network that in my opinion is preferable to Google in my opinion is preferable to Google in my opinion is preferable to Google ads for most SAS products ads for most SAS products ads for most SAS products the best way to see if captera might be the best way to see if captera might be the best way to see if captera might be a good fit for your business just to go a good fit for your business just to go a good fit for your business just to go and and and search for best search for best search for best XYZ category that your business is in XYZ category that your business is in XYZ category that your business is in software software software most of the times you'll find one of most of the times you'll find one of most of the times you'll find one of those free websites ranking in the top those free websites ranking in the top those free websites ranking in the top three search results three search results three search results and in that case you should definitely and in that case you should definitely and in that case you should definitely be creating a listing and bidding on be creating a listing and bidding on be creating a listing and bidding on some level when when I just started I some level when when I just started I some level when when I just started I did not have any budget for AdWords did not have any budget for AdWords did not have any budget for AdWords um but the bids that you can put on um but the bids that you can put on um but the bids that you can put on captera in many of the captera in many of the captera in many of the I'm sure there's some categories that I'm sure there's some categories that I'm sure there's some categories that are extremely competitive but even in are extremely competitive but even in are extremely competitive but even in our category where there's some very our category where there's some very our category where there's some very major players Even If you bid a small major players Even If you bid a small major players Even If you bid a small amount you're able to get some clicks amount you're able to get some clicks amount you're able to get some clicks and those are going to be high quality and those are going to be high quality and those are going to be high quality Clips way higher quality than AdWords in Clips way higher quality than AdWords in Clips way higher quality than AdWords in general general general because they're coming through a because they're coming through a because they're coming through a compressing website compressing website compressing website and we're gonna get into this a little and we're gonna get into this a little and we're gonna get into this a little bit further down uh this talk but

bit further down uh this talk but bit further down uh this talk but um they have a ranking algorithm that is um they have a ranking algorithm that is um they have a ranking algorithm that is a bit wonky a bit wonky a bit wonky its influenced by your bid it's its influenced by your bid it's its influenced by your bid it's influenced by your ratings and then it's influenced by your ratings and then it's influenced by your ratings and then it's influenced by a bunch of unknown factors influenced by a bunch of unknown factors influenced by a bunch of unknown factors a little bit like search result results a little bit like search result results a little bit like search result results um but it means that even with a low bid um but it means that even with a low bid um but it means that even with a low bid you're able to get traffic that you you're able to get traffic that you you're able to get traffic that you would not normally think so they would would not normally think so they would would not normally think so they would tell you tell you tell you uh with your bed you might be shown in uh with your bed you might be shown in uh with your bed you might be shown in the 25th spot the 25th spot the 25th spot um but in reality you look at your um but in reality you look at your um but in reality you look at your analytics and you're you're getting an analytics and you're you're getting an analytics and you're you're getting an average position of 11. nobody knows average position of 11. nobody knows average position of 11. nobody knows their algorithm can predict where you're their algorithm can predict where you're their algorithm can predict where you're going to show up going to show up going to show up um um um and we found that even with a very small and we found that even with a very small and we found that even with a very small budget I was getting maybe four or five budget I was getting maybe four or five budget I was getting maybe four or five leads a month leads a month leads a month uh with basically no spend this is when uh with basically no spend this is when uh with basically no spend this is when we were just getting started we were just getting started we were just getting started um over time we kind of learned the ins um over time we kind of learned the ins um over time we kind of learned the ins and outs of how to gain that algorithm and outs of how to gain that algorithm and outs of how to gain that algorithm to a degree and optimize our spend and to a degree and optimize our spend and to a degree and optimize our spend and now we're generating between 40 and 50 now we're generating between 40 and 50 now we're generating between 40 and 50 leads a month leads a month leads a month and growing and growing and growing um it's a very good channel for us one um it's a very good channel for us one um it's a very good channel for us one of our major channels for acquiring of our major channels for acquiring of our major channels for acquiring users users users um ideally we would love to beat them in um ideally we would love to beat them in um ideally we would love to beat them in the search results but uh the search results but uh the search results but uh a lot of big players have tried and it's a lot of big players have tried and it's a lot of big players have tried and it's very difficult they're very entrenched very difficult they're very entrenched very difficult they're very entrenched they have a lot of SEO going on and they have a lot of SEO going on and they have a lot of SEO going on and sometimes you have to take the necessary sometimes you have to take the necessary sometimes you have to take the necessary evil and just you know pay for that

evil and just you know pay for that evil and just you know pay for that traffic traffic traffic um but I believe that once you get over um but I believe that once you get over um but I believe that once you get over that hurdle it's an excellent channel that hurdle it's an excellent channel that hurdle it's an excellent channel for most SAS companies for most SAS companies for most SAS companies that's great so you touched on several that's great so you touched on several that's great so you touched on several things there um I think one we should things there um I think one we should things there um I think one we should Circle back on now is budget talked Circle back on now is budget talked Circle back on now is budget talked about having a relatively small budget about having a relatively small budget about having a relatively small budget and you know you said relatively and you know you said relatively and you know you said relatively inexpensive clicks what put some numbers inexpensive clicks what put some numbers inexpensive clicks what put some numbers to those and you don't necessarily have to those and you don't necessarily have to those and you don't necessarily have to talk about exactly what you did but to talk about exactly what you did but to talk about exactly what you did but like give folks an idea of what what like give folks an idea of what what like give folks an idea of what what type of budget they should think about type of budget they should think about type of budget they should think about right so I'm going to compare it a right so I'm going to compare it a right so I'm going to compare it a little bit to AdWords little bit to AdWords little bit to AdWords um um um with AdWords especially for SAS related with AdWords especially for SAS related with AdWords especially for SAS related keywords the main problem that you're keywords the main problem that you're keywords the main problem that you're going to run into initially is volume going to run into initially is volume going to run into initially is volume the really targeted keywords very low the really targeted keywords very low the really targeted keywords very low volume and then when you start to expand volume and then when you start to expand volume and then when you start to expand your keywords to less targeted stuff you your keywords to less targeted stuff you your keywords to less targeted stuff you get very low quality clicks get very low quality clicks get very low quality clicks now with captera the clicks are usually now with captera the clicks are usually now with captera the clicks are usually very high quality they're already very high quality they're already very high quality they're already filtered through search results because filtered through search results because filtered through search results because they made it to captera through some they made it to captera through some they made it to captera through some kind of intent related keyword kind of intent related keyword kind of intent related keyword and then they already did some and then they already did some and then they already did some comparison shopping so by the time they comparison shopping so by the time they comparison shopping so by the time they reach you unless you're like number one reach you unless you're like number one reach you unless you're like number one or number two on the list they already or number two on the list they already or number two on the list they already evaluated multiple Solutions and evaluated multiple Solutions and evaluated multiple Solutions and probably did not make up their mind yet probably did not make up their mind yet probably did not make up their mind yet so you're in a really good position you so you're in a really good position you so you're in a really good position you don't have to introduce what you do don't have to introduce what you do don't have to introduce what you do um you just have to have a product that um you just have to have a product that um you just have to have a product that is better than what they've seen so far is better than what they've seen so far is better than what they've seen so far that's also difficult but much less that's also difficult but much less that's also difficult but much less difficult than starting the whole

difficult than starting the whole difficult than starting the whole process from scratch process from scratch process from scratch um so we were spending I think 50 to 100 um so we were spending I think 50 to 100 um so we were spending I think 50 to 100 a month a month a month geez and getting four five six qual geez and getting four five six qual geez and getting four five six qual Super qualified leads Super qualified leads Super qualified leads um and that that's basically was our um and that that's basically was our um and that that's basically was our main acquisition channel for years main acquisition channel for years main acquisition channel for years um when we were very small almost no SEO um when we were very small almost no SEO um when we were very small almost no SEO traffic is coming in traffic is coming in traffic is coming in but captera even before you have any SEO but captera even before you have any SEO but captera even before you have any SEO any sales channels any referrals any sales channels any referrals any sales channels any referrals Partnerships all that stuff captured Partnerships all that stuff captured Partnerships all that stuff captured will send you leads it's very simple you will send you leads it's very simple you will send you leads it's very simple you pay even very little amounts and you get pay even very little amounts and you get pay even very little amounts and you get leads you need validation for your new leads you need validation for your new leads you need validation for your new product uh you have a very early stage product uh you have a very early stage product uh you have a very early stage uh product uh product uh product right now you can get those leads and right now you can get those leads and right now you can get those leads and they're looking for your uh a product they're looking for your uh a product they're looking for your uh a product like yours if you pick the right like yours if you pick the right like yours if you pick the right categories categories categories um you you get very relevant needs um you you get very relevant needs um you you get very relevant needs and when I think of Google pay-per-click and when I think of Google pay-per-click and when I think of Google pay-per-click obviously cost really depends but I've obviously cost really depends but I've obviously cost really depends but I've heard folks saying heard folks saying heard folks saying someone was within the help desk space I someone was within the help desk space I someone was within the help desk space I don't know it was some SAS that most of don't know it was some SAS that most of don't know it was some SAS that most of us would use and they were saying clicks us would use and they were saying clicks us would use and they were saying clicks were like it's like 25 a click or thirty were like it's like 25 a click or thirty were like it's like 25 a click or thirty dollars a click dollars a click dollars a click um yeah and and Google is like you and I um yeah and and Google is like you and I um yeah and and Google is like you and I both know the the quality is fine but both know the the quality is fine but both know the the quality is fine but like you're not going to convert that like you're not going to convert that like you're not going to convert that many of those so and and other other many of those so and and other other many of those so and and other other spaces you know I don't know if gym spaces you know I don't know if gym spaces you know I don't know if gym software is what five bucks a click ten software is what five bucks a click ten software is what five bucks a click ten bucks you know whatever it is like bucks you know whatever it is like bucks you know whatever it is like compare that to compare that to compare that to yeah you can get up there for sure uh yeah you can get up there for sure uh yeah you can get up there for sure uh Even in our space uh bidding on Google

Even in our space uh bidding on Google Even in our space uh bidding on Google and even on captera the top and even on captera the top and even on captera the top places on captera there are 30 plus places on captera there are 30 plus places on captera there are 30 plus dollars a click dollars a click dollars a click um but I found from my experience it's um but I found from my experience it's um but I found from my experience it's actually not beneficial to be in the top actually not beneficial to be in the top actually not beneficial to be in the top spots on a comparison website spots on a comparison website spots on a comparison website um when we tried to increase the bids as um when we tried to increase the bids as um when we tried to increase the bids as we add more budget to spend we add more budget to spend we add more budget to spend our position increased but our our position increased but our our position increased but our conversion rate decreased so in the end conversion rate decreased so in the end conversion rate decreased so in the end we were paying more and getting less we were paying more and getting less we were paying more and getting less from it so there's a very fine balance from it so there's a very fine balance from it so there's a very fine balance to strike there that's interesting I'm to strike there that's interesting I'm to strike there that's interesting I'm pulling up the slide so people can see pulling up the slide so people can see pulling up the slide so people can see kind of what it looks like this is what kind of what it looks like this is what kind of what it looks like this is what a result it was like a serp page right a a result it was like a serp page right a a result it was like a serp page right a search engine result page but here's for search engine result page but here's for search engine result page but here's for help desk software when we just started help desk software when we just started help desk software when we just started out we were paying out we were paying out we were paying really ridiculous amounts like two really ridiculous amounts like two really ridiculous amounts like two dollars a click maybe even less dollars a click maybe even less dollars a click maybe even less sometimes our average was around two sometimes our average was around two sometimes our average was around two dollars a click dollars a click dollars a click um we would get um we would get um we would get maybe 50 clicks a month maybe 50 clicks a month maybe 50 clicks a month and convert about 10 percent of it geez and convert about 10 percent of it geez and convert about 10 percent of it geez yeah this is one of the greatest factors yeah this is one of the greatest factors yeah this is one of the greatest factors here because the quality of the leads is here because the quality of the leads is here because the quality of the leads is so high so high so high and they're providing support we didn't and they're providing support we didn't and they're providing support we didn't have an amazing landing page we just have an amazing landing page we just have an amazing landing page we just followed their best practices followed their best practices followed their best practices um um um we were getting around 10 conversion we were getting around 10 conversion we were getting around 10 conversion rate on our landing page from capture rate on our landing page from capture rate on our landing page from capture leads that that's what makes it so leads that that's what makes it so leads that that's what makes it so budget efficient so Iran we've already budget efficient so Iran we've already budget efficient so Iran we've already touched on a few things you've talked touched on a few things you've talked touched on a few things you've talked about captera and the sister sites I about captera and the sister sites I about captera and the sister sites I think you've done a pretty good job think you've done a pretty good job think you've done a pretty good job talking about why you know why cap talking about why you know why cap talking about why you know why cap Terrace so beneficial Terrace so beneficial Terrace so beneficial um and a bit about budget although I um and a bit about budget although I um and a bit about budget although I think I want to revisit that I'm going

think I want to revisit that I'm going think I want to revisit that I'm going to head back to that slide and we can to head back to that slide and we can to head back to that slide and we can talk a little more uh and then we'll talk a little more uh and then we'll talk a little more uh and then we'll talk about I think listing optimization talk about I think listing optimization talk about I think listing optimization and probably getting reviews actually and probably getting reviews actually and probably getting reviews actually which I'd obviously before but we can which I'd obviously before but we can which I'd obviously before but we can still talk through I think that's going still talk through I think that's going still talk through I think that's going to be to be to be um really interesting um really interesting um really interesting we can talk a little bit about our we can talk a little bit about our we can talk a little bit about our current budget obviously that says current budget obviously that says current budget obviously that says increased significantly over the years increased significantly over the years increased significantly over the years let's talk a little bit about that about let's talk a little bit about that about let's talk a little bit about that about you know because you were talking you know because you were talking you know because you were talking two-ish bucks a click 50 clicks 50 to two-ish bucks a click 50 clicks 50 to two-ish bucks a click 50 clicks 50 to 100 a month you were spending but like 100 a month you were spending but like 100 a month you were spending but like how have you ramped that up yeah so at how have you ramped that up yeah so at how have you ramped that up yeah so at this point we're spending on most this point we're spending on most this point we're spending on most categories between six and seven dollars categories between six and seven dollars categories between six and seven dollars a click a click a click um some categories that are less um some categories that are less um some categories that are less competitive maybe five dollars a click competitive maybe five dollars a click competitive maybe five dollars a click and it gives us an average position and it gives us an average position and it gives us an average position about seven 6.5 to 7 on the results page about seven 6.5 to 7 on the results page about seven 6.5 to 7 on the results page um which I believe is maybe the ideal um which I believe is maybe the ideal um which I believe is maybe the ideal position to be position to be position to be um first of all they have several um first of all they have several um first of all they have several features that features that features that um you only show up for if you're in the um you only show up for if you're in the um you only show up for if you're in the top 10 for a specific category so that's top 10 for a specific category so that's top 10 for a specific category so that's already it puts you on additional already it puts you on additional already it puts you on additional landing pages that they generate aside landing pages that they generate aside landing pages that they generate aside from the main category pages from the main category pages from the main category pages um at position position six seven they um at position position six seven they um at position position six seven they already gone through the major players already gone through the major players already gone through the major players that are willing to pay the thirty that are willing to pay the thirty that are willing to pay the thirty dollars per click that we're not yet dollars per click that we're not yet dollars per click that we're not yet willing to compete with willing to compete with willing to compete with um and they're pretty well educated at um and they're pretty well educated at um and they're pretty well educated at that point you can still get quality that point you can still get quality that point you can still get quality clicks at position 14 15 but you're clicks at position 14 15 but you're clicks at position 14 15 but you're basically left with the people that

basically left with the people that basically left with the people that limit eliminated 15 other companies limit eliminated 15 other companies limit eliminated 15 other companies right which can be good and or bad but right which can be good and or bad but right which can be good and or bad but you're living a lot of your audience off you're living a lot of your audience off you're living a lot of your audience off six seven a lot of people are still six seven a lot of people are still six seven a lot of people are still there they get to the search results there they get to the search results there they get to the search results and they scroll a little bit they don't and they scroll a little bit they don't and they scroll a little bit they don't just click the first one and that's it just click the first one and that's it just click the first one and that's it right that the structure of the website right that the structure of the website right that the structure of the website kind of encourages you to look at more kind of encourages you to look at more kind of encourages you to look at more than one solution than one solution than one solution um so yeah right now we're paying um so yeah right now we're paying um so yeah right now we're paying between six and seven dollars a click between six and seven dollars a click between six and seven dollars a click depending on the category depending on the category depending on the category um we have been doing a lot of work on um we have been doing a lot of work on um we have been doing a lot of work on the optimization of the landing page and the optimization of the landing page and the optimization of the landing page and the listing page there's a lot of the listing page there's a lot of the listing page there's a lot of interconnected factors there the way interconnected factors there the way interconnected factors there the way that you present yourself that you present yourself that you present yourself and the category could influence the the and the category could influence the the and the category could influence the the quality of the lead quality of the lead quality of the lead um when you add more and more categories um when you add more and more categories um when you add more and more categories we initially started and just one we initially started and just one we initially started and just one category at that time we were servicing category at that time we were servicing category at that time we were servicing only martial arts schools so we were on only martial arts schools so we were on only martial arts schools so we were on the martial arts category the martial arts category the martial arts category um but as we rebranded to gym desk and um but as we rebranded to gym desk and um but as we rebranded to gym desk and now serving all kinds of Fitness and now serving all kinds of Fitness and now serving all kinds of Fitness and Wellness businesses that opened up a Wellness businesses that opened up a Wellness businesses that opened up a bunch of new categories for us so that's bunch of new categories for us so that's bunch of new categories for us so that's one way to scale just adding additional one way to scale just adding additional one way to scale just adding additional categories categories categories but eventually run into the problem that but eventually run into the problem that but eventually run into the problem that some of those categories some of those categories some of those categories might be relevant for you but they're might be relevant for you but they're might be relevant for you but they're also relevant for products that are not also relevant for products that are not also relevant for products that are not exactly what you're doing exactly what you're doing exactly what you're doing and then you might be paying for clicks and then you might be paying for clicks and then you might be paying for clicks um and people that were looking for

um and people that were looking for um and people that were looking for something else something else something else so there's another kind of balancing act so there's another kind of balancing act so there's another kind of balancing act and that can be influenced by the copy and that can be influenced by the copy and that can be influenced by the copy you put on the listing page there's a you put on the listing page there's a you put on the listing page there's a bunch of different things you can do bunch of different things you can do bunch of different things you can do there right now we actually have there right now we actually have there right now we actually have um a contractor um a contractor um a contractor that specializes in dealing with capital that specializes in dealing with capital that specializes in dealing with capital listings listings listings um and that's been extremely beneficial um and that's been extremely beneficial um and that's been extremely beneficial every week every week every week um she reviews our performance she um she reviews our performance she um she reviews our performance she creates action plans creates action plans creates action plans um writes copy for landing pages updates um writes copy for landing pages updates um writes copy for landing pages updates the listings updates the bids the listings updates the bids the listings updates the bids um and for that kind of iterative um and for that kind of iterative um and for that kind of iterative process we've been able to optimize the process we've been able to optimize the process we've been able to optimize the budget and spend to the point where budget and spend to the point where budget and spend to the point where everything is now very cost efficient yeah that's really interesting I didn't yeah that's really interesting I didn't realize that there were of course there realize that there were of course there realize that there were of course there are captera Consultants but I was are captera Consultants but I was are captera Consultants but I was actually pretty hard to find but I bet actually pretty hard to find but I bet actually pretty hard to find but I bet yeah I don't think there are that many yeah I don't think there are that many yeah I don't think there are that many yeah but that's that's good and you're yeah but that's that's good and you're yeah but that's that's good and you're you're at the space now you know when you're at the space now you know when you're at the space now you know when you're first starting out you kind of you're first starting out you kind of you're first starting out you kind of got to figure it out yourself because got to figure it out yourself because got to figure it out yourself because you wouldn't have budget for that but you wouldn't have budget for that but you wouldn't have budget for that but now that you're at this point and it's now that you're at this point and it's now that you're at this point and it's such a big Channel yep makes sense and such a big Channel yep makes sense and such a big Channel yep makes sense and so is there anything you know before we so is there anything you know before we so is there anything you know before we move off of this this listing page move off of this this listing page move off of this this listing page you've talked about listing page and you've talked about listing page and you've talked about listing page and landing page and this is the listing landing page and this is the listing landing page and this is the listing page we'll look at your landing page in page we'll look at your landing page in page we'll look at your landing page in a minute and you can give some thoughts a minute and you can give some thoughts a minute and you can give some thoughts about how you've optimized it but on about how you've optimized it but on about how you've optimized it but on this listing page this listing page this listing page um what are some things you you mess um what are some things you you mess um what are some things you you mess with like what what do you have control with like what what do you have control with like what what do you have control over that makes any type of difference over that makes any type of difference over that makes any type of difference so obviously the title in the so obviously the title in the so obviously the title in the description here very important uh it's description here very important uh it's description here very important uh it's basically the same as uh search result basically the same as uh search result basically the same as uh search result Pages serps

Pages serps Pages serps um you have to optimize the description um you have to optimize the description um you have to optimize the description there it's the first thing people look there it's the first thing people look there it's the first thing people look at your logo obviously needs to be at your logo obviously needs to be at your logo obviously needs to be eye-catching and then does the element eye-catching and then does the element eye-catching and then does the element that's the most difficult to achieve and that's the most difficult to achieve and that's the most difficult to achieve and that's the rating that you see there that's the rating that you see there that's the rating that you see there um the rating and number of reviews um the rating and number of reviews um the rating and number of reviews extremely important factors in people extremely important factors in people extremely important factors in people deciding to check you out and this is deciding to check you out and this is deciding to check you out and this is one of the struggles you'll run into as one of the struggles you'll run into as one of the struggles you'll run into as you're starting out and you have no you're starting out and you have no you're starting out and you have no reviews reviews reviews um you'll struggle to get clicks but uh um you'll struggle to get clicks but uh um you'll struggle to get clicks but uh with the we focus a lot on with the we focus a lot on with the we focus a lot on encouraging reviews on captera we have a encouraging reviews on captera we have a encouraging reviews on captera we have a an email funnel that starts reaching out an email funnel that starts reaching out an email funnel that starts reaching out uh now a couple months after the user uh now a couple months after the user uh now a couple months after the user has upgraded to a paid plan we assume by has upgraded to a paid plan we assume by has upgraded to a paid plan we assume by that point if they didn't turn out they that point if they didn't turn out they that point if they didn't turn out they like our product we ask them for their like our product we ask them for their like our product we ask them for their opinion and if they're willing to leave opinion and if they're willing to leave opinion and if they're willing to leave a review it's completely automated and a review it's completely automated and a review it's completely automated and we get a steady stream of reviews as a we get a steady stream of reviews as a we get a steady stream of reviews as a result result result uh right now we have the highest average uh right now we have the highest average uh right now we have the highest average rating on captera rating on captera rating on captera um even without um even without um even without personally asking for reviews recently personally asking for reviews recently personally asking for reviews recently we started doing that as well another we started doing that as well another we started doing that as well another tactic I learned from one of the tiny tactic I learned from one of the tiny tactic I learned from one of the tiny seat Founders whenever we have a really seat Founders whenever we have a really seat Founders whenever we have a really good customer service experience I asked good customer service experience I asked good customer service experience I asked my customers service people to my customers service people to my customers service people to ask nicely for a review on captera and ask nicely for a review on captera and ask nicely for a review on captera and people oblige so this is one of the main people oblige so this is one of the main people oblige so this is one of the main areas that you'll struggle with areas that you'll struggle with areas that you'll struggle with initially but very important to start

initially but very important to start initially but very important to start getting those reviews once you have a 10 getting those reviews once you have a 10 getting those reviews once you have a 10 or so reviews it starts looking pretty or so reviews it starts looking pretty or so reviews it starts looking pretty good hopefully you got mostly five star good hopefully you got mostly five star good hopefully you got mostly five star reviews reviews reviews and you can start competing on the and you can start competing on the and you can start competing on the results page results page results page um aside from that the um aside from that the um aside from that the assets that you add obviously very assets that you add obviously very assets that you add obviously very important we recently redesigned all of important we recently redesigned all of important we recently redesigned all of our assets for captera we used to have our assets for captera we used to have our assets for captera we used to have just regular screenshots of our product just regular screenshots of our product just regular screenshots of our product but now it's laid out in a very specific but now it's laid out in a very specific but now it's laid out in a very specific way we saw some of our competitors way we saw some of our competitors way we saw some of our competitors competitors listing so we we looked at competitors listing so we we looked at competitors listing so we we looked at some of our company this is what my some of our company this is what my some of our company this is what my Capital Capital Capital um uh contractor is doing she saw a few um uh contractor is doing she saw a few um uh contractor is doing she saw a few that had really good layouts it's that had really good layouts it's that had really good layouts it's organized in a way that is not only organized in a way that is not only organized in a way that is not only showcasing the product but also the showcasing the product but also the showcasing the product but also the brand brand brand um and in a very um and in a very um and in a very uh professional looking way uh professional looking way uh professional looking way um there's when you have a good looking um there's when you have a good looking um there's when you have a good looking product the initial inclination just product the initial inclination just product the initial inclination just showed the product but also adding some showed the product but also adding some showed the product but also adding some wrapping to it wrapping to it wrapping to it um really makes it stand out yeah so if um really makes it stand out yeah so if um really makes it stand out yeah so if you click on any of those slides you see you click on any of those slides you see you click on any of those slides you see what I mean we add some copy on the what I mean we add some copy on the what I mean we add some copy on the screenshot we do some layouting with the screenshot we do some layouting with the screenshot we do some layouting with the Mac with the iPhone and there's Mac with the iPhone and there's Mac with the iPhone and there's different approaches to do that so that different approaches to do that so that different approaches to do that so that that's the kind of stuff you can really that's the kind of stuff you can really that's the kind of stuff you can really optimize if you have a good designer or optimize if you have a good designer or optimize if you have a good designer or access to good designers access to good designers access to good designers um um um then if you have good performance so then if you have good performance so then if you have good performance so your conversion rate on the landing page your conversion rate on the landing page your conversion rate on the landing page is good and capture knows because you

is good and capture knows because you is good and capture knows because you install their tracking pixel install their tracking pixel install their tracking pixel uh you'll start getting those badges uh you'll start getting those badges uh you'll start getting those badges that you also see on our listing here that you also see on our listing here that you also see on our listing here emerging favorite uh category winner emerging favorite uh category winner emerging favorite uh category winner there's a bunch of different badges that there's a bunch of different badges that there's a bunch of different badges that you can acquire and they have landing you can acquire and they have landing you can acquire and they have landing pages where they show all the emerging pages where they show all the emerging pages where they show all the emerging favorites and they have landing pages favorites and they have landing pages favorites and they have landing pages where they show upcoming companies you where they show upcoming companies you where they show upcoming companies you know they see the velocity of the know they see the velocity of the know they see the velocity of the reviews there you're getting and all reviews there you're getting and all reviews there you're getting and all five star reviews they start picturing five star reviews they start picturing five star reviews they start picturing you there so stuff like that can really you there so stuff like that can really you there so stuff like that can really help you get additional traffic in help you get additional traffic in help you get additional traffic in addition to what's showing on the main addition to what's showing on the main addition to what's showing on the main listing page got it got it so there's several ways so it's reviews so there's several ways so it's reviews so there's several ways so it's reviews it's your assets how did you say you get it's your assets how did you say you get it's your assets how did you say you get the badges again it's when you is it the badges again it's when you is it the badges again it's when you is it when you have good conversions do they when you have good conversions do they when you have good conversions do they add them automatically uh it's multiple add them automatically uh it's multiple add them automatically uh it's multiple factors so yeah if you have good factors so yeah if you have good factors so yeah if you have good conversion rate conversion rate conversion rate um nobody really knows this is kind of um nobody really knows this is kind of um nobody really knows this is kind of what we ciphered over time uh you have what we ciphered over time uh you have what we ciphered over time uh you have good conversion rates uh they put you as good conversion rates uh they put you as good conversion rates uh they put you as emergent favorite you have a good emergent favorite you have a good emergent favorite you have a good velocity of reviews they put you as velocity of reviews they put you as velocity of reviews they put you as category favorite you have the top category favorite you have the top category favorite you have the top rating at the end of the year they do rating at the end of the year they do rating at the end of the year they do like yearly winners and stuff like that like yearly winners and stuff like that like yearly winners and stuff like that they have a bunch of different badges they have a bunch of different badges they have a bunch of different badges um and some of their competitors that um and some of their competitors that um and some of their competitors that we'll get to in a little bit they do the we'll get to in a little bit they do the we'll get to in a little bit they do the same thing it's a very common thing now same thing it's a very common thing now same thing it's a very common thing now I think most of them are copying the I think most of them are copying the I think most of them are copying the model that capital is using model that capital is using model that capital is using um but yeah this is the the badges is is um but yeah this is the the badges is is um but yeah this is the the badges is is a thing we use those on our landing

a thing we use those on our landing a thing we use those on our landing pages as well we have pages as well we have pages as well we have badges from each one of their website so badges from each one of their website so badges from each one of their website so it looks like we're like the top it looks like we're like the top it looks like we're like the top favorite at three different websites favorite at three different websites favorite at three different websites when it's all basically the same review when it's all basically the same review when it's all basically the same review Network Network Network um but it helps it's like social proof um but it helps it's like social proof um but it helps it's like social proof on your landing page on your landing page on your landing page um of that stuff helps um of that stuff helps um of that stuff helps that makes a lot of sense you mentioned that makes a lot of sense you mentioned that makes a lot of sense you mentioned their competitors to captera and the their competitors to captera and the their competitors to captera and the captera network I guess we call it and I captera network I guess we call it and I captera network I guess we call it and I think G2 and Source Forge think G2 and Source Forge think G2 and Source Forge talk to us yeah yeah talk to us about talk to us yeah yeah talk to us about talk to us yeah yeah talk to us about them like how do they compare do you them like how do they compare do you them like how do they compare do you also use them is the traffic the same also use them is the traffic the same also use them is the traffic the same are they you know is the cost per click are they you know is the cost per click are they you know is the cost per click the same or is it kind of like there are the same or is it kind of like there are the same or is it kind of like there are also Rands and just you know kind of also Rands and just you know kind of also Rands and just you know kind of ignore them if you're starting out well ignore them if you're starting out well ignore them if you're starting out well I think it really depends on your I think it really depends on your I think it really depends on your category category category um you really have to look at the search um you really have to look at the search um you really have to look at the search results and see which website shows up results and see which website shows up results and see which website shows up uh at the top for us it's the capital uh at the top for us it's the capital uh at the top for us it's the capital net Network net Network net Network um sourceforge well search for it used um sourceforge well search for it used um sourceforge well search for it used to be it still advertises itself as an to be it still advertises itself as an to be it still advertises itself as an open source repository kind of like the open source repository kind of like the open source repository kind of like the GitHub before GitHub was a thing GitHub before GitHub was a thing GitHub before GitHub was a thing um and most of their traffic is very um and most of their traffic is very um and most of their traffic is very uh developer tool oriented so if you uh developer tool oriented so if you uh developer tool oriented so if you have a company in that space there's a have a company in that space there's a have a company in that space there's a good chance that sourceforge is at the good chance that sourceforge is at the good chance that sourceforge is at the top of the search results and then I top of the search results and then I top of the search results and then I would definitely invest in it we did would definitely invest in it we did would definitely invest in it we did um make a small effort to get some um make a small effort to get some um make a small effort to get some reviews reviews reviews our category because Source Forge is not

our category because Source Forge is not our category because Source Forge is not at the top of the search results there's at the top of the search results there's at the top of the search results there's not a lot of competition there so just not a lot of competition there so just not a lot of competition there so just by adding five or six reviews on by adding five or six reviews on by adding five or six reviews on sourceforge we were able to get to the sourceforge we were able to get to the sourceforge we were able to get to the very top of the listing very easily very top of the listing very easily very top of the listing very easily um and we're not paying for clicks um and we're not paying for clicks um and we're not paying for clicks so really interesting yeah we do have so really interesting yeah we do have so really interesting yeah we do have listings on both G2 and sourceforge listings on both G2 and sourceforge listings on both G2 and sourceforge um but we're not bidding there they keep um but we're not bidding there they keep um but we're not bidding there they keep reaching out to us to open up a paid reaching out to us to open up a paid reaching out to us to open up a paid account and start bidding start search account and start bidding start search account and start bidding start search Forge always pushes their oh we have Forge always pushes their oh we have Forge always pushes their oh we have millions of visitors a month but I know millions of visitors a month but I know millions of visitors a month but I know most of them are just there to download most of them are just there to download most of them are just there to download free open source software they're not free open source software they're not free open source software they're not there there there um for the same purpose um for the same purpose um for the same purpose um G2 is a different story so G2 is um G2 is a different story so G2 is um G2 is a different story so G2 is actually doing okay in our vertical actually doing okay in our vertical actually doing okay in our vertical just slightly below captera but I found just slightly below captera but I found just slightly below captera but I found that dealing with them is extremely that dealing with them is extremely that dealing with them is extremely painful painful painful their interface is their interface is their interface is I don't know exactly how to put it but I don't know exactly how to put it but I don't know exactly how to put it but things just don't work they're just things just don't work they're just things just don't work they're just broken all the time links don't go broken all the time links don't go broken all the time links don't go anywhere you try to log in like five anywhere you try to log in like five anywhere you try to log in like five times and on the sixth attempt it does times and on the sixth attempt it does times and on the sixth attempt it does log you in and you get some broken page log you in and you get some broken page log you in and you get some broken page and then you try to reach out to their and then you try to reach out to their and then you try to reach out to their support all you want to do is to publish support all you want to do is to publish support all you want to do is to publish your listing very hard to get somebody your listing very hard to get somebody your listing very hard to get somebody to respond I don't know I've had a to respond I don't know I've had a to respond I don't know I've had a pretty bad time dealing with G2 pretty bad time dealing with G2 pretty bad time dealing with G2 and the thing is they keep reaching out and the thing is they keep reaching out and the thing is they keep reaching out to me and I'm like I to me and I'm like I to me and I'm like I every now and then I try restarting the

every now and then I try restarting the every now and then I try restarting the efforts and I run into the same issues efforts and I run into the same issues efforts and I run into the same issues so I kind of gave up on G2 but I know so I kind of gave up on G2 but I know so I kind of gave up on G2 but I know some companies especially if they rank some companies especially if they rank some companies especially if they rank uh at the top spots for search results uh at the top spots for search results uh at the top spots for search results in your category some companies are in your category some companies are in your category some companies are doing very well with G2 so we're looking doing very well with G2 so we're looking doing very well with G2 so we're looking into if they're the Top Dog in your into if they're the Top Dog in your into if they're the Top Dog in your search category search category search category yeah that makes sense that's a good way yeah that makes sense that's a good way yeah that makes sense that's a good way to think about it to think about it to think about it last question for me and then I'll ask last question for me and then I'll ask last question for me and then I'll ask if you have any closing thoughts is you if you have any closing thoughts is you if you have any closing thoughts is you mentioned that captera and get app and mentioned that captera and get app and mentioned that captera and get app and software advice are all under this software advice are all under this software advice are all under this umbrella they're owned by Gartner I umbrella they're owned by Gartner I umbrella they're owned by Gartner I think you mentioned um and so in order think you mentioned um and so in order think you mentioned um and so in order to have a listing in all three and to do to have a listing in all three and to do to have a listing in all three and to do pay-per-click and all three do I need to pay-per-click and all three do I need to pay-per-click and all three do I need to sign up to three sites or if you go to sign up to three sites or if you go to sign up to three sites or if you go to captera does it manage all of that for captera does it manage all of that for captera does it manage all of that for you in one place so it's interesting I'm you in one place so it's interesting I'm you in one place so it's interesting I'm not completely sure if they didn't start not completely sure if they didn't start not completely sure if they didn't start out as separate websites I think they out as separate websites I think they out as separate websites I think they actually did but when I joined and this actually did but when I joined and this actually did but when I joined and this is seven years ago 2016. is seven years ago 2016. is seven years ago 2016. um they were already being managed from um they were already being managed from um they were already being managed from the same umbrella it wasn't seamless the same umbrella it wasn't seamless the same umbrella it wasn't seamless sometimes I would have to reach out to sometimes I would have to reach out to sometimes I would have to reach out to our our our um account manager and tell them um account manager and tell them um account manager and tell them push the changes to the other websites push the changes to the other websites push the changes to the other websites because it wasn't updating by now it's because it wasn't updating by now it's because it wasn't updating by now it's pretty seamless you manage everything pretty seamless you manage everything pretty seamless you manage everything from captera and everything updates from captera and everything updates from captera and everything updates pretty much in real time and all the pretty much in real time and all the pretty much in real time and all the other websites as well yeah that sounds good do you have any yeah that sounds good do you have any closing thoughts for folks who are closing thoughts for folks who are closing thoughts for folks who are getting started with captera yeah my getting started with captera yeah my getting started with captera yeah my main advice is go to Google and put best

main advice is go to Google and put best main advice is go to Google and put best XYZ software in your category and see XYZ software in your category and see XYZ software in your category and see which websites come up the ones that which websites come up the ones that which websites come up the ones that come up on top definitely worth come up on top definitely worth come up on top definitely worth investing in creating a listing start investing in creating a listing start investing in creating a listing start playing around with the bids and see if playing around with the bids and see if playing around with the bids and see if it's worth your time because it's worth your time because it's worth your time because I think most sales companies can acquire I think most sales companies can acquire I think most sales companies can acquire very cost efficient needs for this very cost efficient needs for this very cost efficient needs for this channel channel channel Hey Ron thanks so much for joining me Hey Ron thanks so much for joining me Hey Ron thanks so much for joining me and taking the time to Enlighten the and taking the time to Enlighten the and taking the time to Enlighten the microconf remote audience thanks for microconf remote audience thanks for microconf remote audience thanks for hosting me Ron looking forward to the hosting me Ron looking forward to the hosting me Ron looking forward to the next awesome next awesome next awesome folks want to check out what you're folks want to check out what you're folks want to check out what you're doing they can head to gymdesk.com all right thanks again to Iran for all right thanks again to Iran for sharing his knowledge on captera it's sharing his knowledge on captera it's sharing his knowledge on captera it's honestly the first talk I've ever seen honestly the first talk I've ever seen honestly the first talk I've ever seen on it I was learning you the oftentimes on it I was learning you the oftentimes on it I was learning you the oftentimes when I'm interviewing someone I'm asking when I'm interviewing someone I'm asking when I'm interviewing someone I'm asking questions I know the answer to in that questions I know the answer to in that questions I know the answer to in that one I genuinely I just I never did kept one I genuinely I just I never did kept one I genuinely I just I never did kept her advertising so her advertising so her advertising so um we do have some really good questions um we do have some really good questions um we do have some really good questions that have come in and I'll answer them that have come in and I'll answer them that have come in and I'll answer them for the next five six seven minutes and for the next five six seven minutes and for the next five six seven minutes and then we will dive into our founder by then we will dive into our founder by then we will dive into our founder by founder will you get to meet other founder will you get to meet other founder will you get to meet other Founders one on one so first question Founders one on one so first question Founders one on one so first question from Anonymous was asked before his talk from Anonymous was asked before his talk from Anonymous was asked before his talk um uh but the question is captura didn't um uh but the question is captura didn't um uh but the question is captura didn't have enough traffic in my space and so have enough traffic in my space and so have enough traffic in my space and so their costs were exorbitant for the their costs were exorbitant for the their costs were exorbitant for the value I stepped back from them should I value I stepped back from them should I value I stepped back from them should I reevaluate now that I have more reevaluate now that I have more reevaluate now that I have more customers and could probably get reviews customers and could probably get reviews customers and could probably get reviews do reviews change the cost so reviews do do reviews change the cost so reviews do do reviews change the cost so reviews do and in the in you know the conversation and in the in you know the conversation and in the in you know the conversation you heard that there's a bunch of you heard that there's a bunch of you heard that there's a bunch of factors that

factors that factors that um cause you to rank and reviews are one um cause you to rank and reviews are one um cause you to rank and reviews are one of them and so the typical advice that of them and so the typical advice that of them and so the typical advice that I've seen in like the in the slacks I've seen in like the in the slacks I've seen in like the in the slacks where I see people discussing this is where I see people discussing this is where I see people discussing this is there's a thing you can kick off in there's a thing you can kick off in there's a thing you can kick off in captera captera captera where you can email people for reviews where you can email people for reviews where you can email people for reviews from captera so you can either do it from captera so you can either do it from captera so you can either do it that way or as Iran said when people that way or as Iran said when people that way or as Iran said when people have a good experience like a good have a good experience like a good have a good experience like a good support experience or they write it and support experience or they write it and support experience or they write it and say I love this software you say that's say I love this software you say that's say I love this software you say that's so amazing thanks for being a customer so amazing thanks for being a customer so amazing thanks for being a customer you know what would really help us out you know what would really help us out you know what would really help us out if you could take two minutes and write if you could take two minutes and write if you could take two minutes and write this review and um that's how people do this review and um that's how people do this review and um that's how people do it so the I I do think reviews will help it so the I I do think reviews will help it so the I I do think reviews will help you rank higher for lower cost but the you rank higher for lower cost but the you rank higher for lower cost but the other part of the question was they other part of the question was they other part of the question was they didn't have enough traffic in my space didn't have enough traffic in my space didn't have enough traffic in my space if they don't have enough traffic in if they don't have enough traffic in if they don't have enough traffic in your space your space your space then that's probably not worth doing so then that's probably not worth doing so then that's probably not worth doing so I would take Iran's advice you go into a I would take Iran's advice you go into a I would take Iran's advice you go into a um uh what do you call it an incognito um uh what do you call it an incognito um uh what do you call it an incognito window in your browser and then you window in your browser and then you window in your browser and then you search for best search for best search for best XYZ software whatever XYZ is for you and XYZ software whatever XYZ is for you and XYZ software whatever XYZ is for you and you see who ranks so maybe captera you see who ranks so maybe captera you see who ranks so maybe captera doesn't have enough traffic because they doesn't have enough traffic because they doesn't have enough traffic because they just don't rank high enough but if G2 or just don't rank high enough but if G2 or just don't rank high enough but if G2 or you know the other tools we talked about you know the other tools we talked about you know the other tools we talked about during the talk rank higher than those during the talk rank higher than those during the talk rank higher than those are the ones to think about targeting are the ones to think about targeting are the ones to think about targeting answer that question the next one is answer that question the next one is answer that question the next one is from from from water Von Lent water Von Lent water Von Lent he asks would captura make sense for a he asks would captura make sense for a he asks would captura make sense for a product without a dedicated category my product without a dedicated category my product without a dedicated category my product for woocommerce monitoring would product for woocommerce monitoring would product for woocommerce monitoring would fit in the website monitoring category

fit in the website monitoring category fit in the website monitoring category but it is not relevant for a lot of the but it is not relevant for a lot of the but it is not relevant for a lot of the viewers there I would say no I think if viewers there I would say no I think if viewers there I would say no I think if if you don't have a if it doesn't have a if you don't have a if it doesn't have a if you don't have a if it doesn't have a dedicated category that's going to be dedicated category that's going to be dedicated category that's going to be highly um highly um highly um relevant and is really specific I relevant and is really specific I relevant and is really specific I wouldn't I wouldn't spend the time this wouldn't I wouldn't spend the time this wouldn't I wouldn't spend the time this would be a lot lower on my my list of would be a lot lower on my my list of would be a lot lower on my my list of experiments to run and frankly with experiments to run and frankly with experiments to run and frankly with woocommerce the advantage you have is of woocommerce the advantage you have is of woocommerce the advantage you have is of course anywhere every woocommerce course anywhere every woocommerce course anywhere every woocommerce podcast YouTube channel every podcast YouTube channel every podcast YouTube channel every um you know obviously the woocommerce um you know obviously the woocommerce um you know obviously the woocommerce App Store I'd be trying to do crazy App App Store I'd be trying to do crazy App App Store I'd be trying to do crazy App Store optimization there to rank you Store optimization there to rank you Store optimization there to rank you know there's a lot of places that you know there's a lot of places that you know there's a lot of places that you can go Focus but in my opinion can go Focus but in my opinion can go Focus but in my opinion personally I wouldn't be looking at um personally I wouldn't be looking at um personally I wouldn't be looking at um at captera next question from will at captera next question from will at captera next question from will Johnson Johnson Johnson is there a search volume on Google that is there a search volume on Google that is there a search volume on Google that is too small or too big for captera to is too small or too big for captera to is too small or too big for captera to be a good option basically the size of be a good option basically the size of be a good option basically the size of the niche that it works for how many the niche that it works for how many the niche that it works for how many reviews do you need to start with all reviews do you need to start with all reviews do you need to start with all right so a couple questions there right so a couple questions there right so a couple questions there um um um I first of all you know as Iran said at I first of all you know as Iran said at I first of all you know as Iran said at the very end is like figure out where the very end is like figure out where the very end is like figure out where you know captera may not be the Silver you know captera may not be the Silver you know captera may not be the Silver Bullet right because G2 or Source Forge Bullet right because G2 or Source Forge Bullet right because G2 or Source Forge or one of these others might outrank or one of these others might outrank or one of these others might outrank them or frankly maybe none of them Rank them or frankly maybe none of them Rank them or frankly maybe none of them Rank and it's just a completely different you and it's just a completely different you and it's just a completely different you know it's not this is not an approach know it's not this is not an approach know it's not this is not an approach you can take I mean I do want to call you can take I mean I do want to call you can take I mean I do want to call out this has worked really well for Iran out this has worked really well for Iran out this has worked really well for Iran I've seen it work really well for a I've seen it work really well for a I've seen it work really well for a handful of other Founders who have tried handful of other Founders who have tried handful of other Founders who have tried it but like any marketing approach it it but like any marketing approach it it but like any marketing approach it only works in certain spaces and it only only works in certain spaces and it only only works in certain spaces and it only works for certain products and so I like works for certain products and so I like works for certain products and so I like to say like my rule of thumb these days to say like my rule of thumb these days to say like my rule of thumb these days is for example is like cold email cold is for example is like cold email cold is for example is like cold email cold LinkedIn Outreach seems to be working

LinkedIn Outreach seems to be working LinkedIn Outreach seems to be working for about one out of four one out of for about one out of four one out of for about one out of four one out of five companies that I see try it I don't five companies that I see try it I don't five companies that I see try it I don't know what that number is for keptera know what that number is for keptera know what that number is for keptera because I don't have a big enough sample because I don't have a big enough sample because I don't have a big enough sample size but realize that this is amazing if size but realize that this is amazing if size but realize that this is amazing if it works and it just may not work in it works and it just may not work in it works and it just may not work in your space so to me it's it's worth an your space so to me it's it's worth an your space so to me it's it's worth an experiment if you can find a category experiment if you can find a category experiment if you can find a category you know you know you know um but with that said is there search um but with that said is there search um but with that said is there search volume that is too big for captura to be volume that is too big for captura to be volume that is too big for captura to be a good option no not if Captain ranks a good option no not if Captain ranks a good option no not if Captain ranks high right that's great is a search form high right that's great is a search form high right that's great is a search form that is too small for cafeteria to be a that is too small for cafeteria to be a that is too small for cafeteria to be a good option I would say yes if they good option I would say yes if they good option I would say yes if they don't rank high and also if it's don't rank high and also if it's don't rank high and also if it's literally you know a trickle of searches literally you know a trickle of searches literally you know a trickle of searches then obviously that's that's not going then obviously that's that's not going then obviously that's that's not going to be great what I have found though is to be great what I have found though is to be great what I have found though is a lot of the a lot of the a lot of the the tough thing with search volume is we the tough thing with search volume is we the tough thing with search volume is we go to these tools that try to estimate go to these tools that try to estimate go to these tools that try to estimate it because Google doesn't really tell us it because Google doesn't really tell us it because Google doesn't really tell us and I've seen some search volume tools and I've seen some search volume tools and I've seen some search volume tools and Google's keyword what is it AdWords and Google's keyword what is it AdWords and Google's keyword what is it AdWords tool say oh it's like less than 100 per tool say oh it's like less than 100 per tool say oh it's like less than 100 per month and then I've seen those searches month and then I've seen those searches month and then I've seen those searches have three four five hundred searches a have three four five hundred searches a have three four five hundred searches a month and so it's not that it month and so it's not that it month and so it's not that it it's not that it's wrong all the time it's not that it's wrong all the time it's not that it's wrong all the time but I do I'm a little wary of that but I do I'm a little wary of that but I do I'm a little wary of that um and then Will's last question was how um and then Will's last question was how um and then Will's last question was how many reviews do you need to start with many reviews do you need to start with many reviews do you need to start with um and I so I don't know a definitive um and I so I don't know a definitive um and I so I don't know a definitive answer to that I have definitely seen answer to that I have definitely seen answer to that I have definitely seen folks folks folks um get in the three to five review range um get in the three to five review range um get in the three to five review range and then start putting making small bets and then start putting making small bets and then start putting making small bets and that's what I liked about whatever and that's what I liked about whatever and that's what I liked about whatever hunt said is he's like hunt said is he's like hunt said is he's like 100 bucks a month they started with yeah 100 bucks a month they started with yeah 100 bucks a month they started with yeah they were getting two dollar clicks and they were getting two dollar clicks and they were getting two dollar clicks and they were down at 13 15 and they would they were down at 13 15 and they would they were down at 13 15 and they would get a trickle of people you know and so get a trickle of people you know and so get a trickle of people you know and so even at that budget it's pretty pretty even at that budget it's pretty pretty even at that budget it's pretty pretty interesting interesting interesting um Ivan asked what's the cost per click

um Ivan asked what's the cost per click um Ivan asked what's the cost per click on captera and can you scale it and you on captera and can you scale it and you on captera and can you scale it and you heard at least in Iran so it depends on heard at least in Iran so it depends on heard at least in Iran so it depends on the space right like Google AdWords it the space right like Google AdWords it the space right like Google AdWords it just depends on who's bidding but you just depends on who's bidding but you just depends on who's bidding but you heard he early on he was paying two and heard he early on he was paying two and heard he early on he was paying two and now he's paying uh what did he say five now he's paying uh what did he say five now he's paying uh what did he say five to seven depending on he's in multiple to seven depending on he's in multiple to seven depending on he's in multiple categories and so that's his range I you categories and so that's his range I you categories and so that's his range I you know I don't know the for the range for know I don't know the for the range for know I don't know the for the range for every uh every piece of software every uh every piece of software every uh every piece of software obviously and then can you scale it and obviously and then can you scale it and obviously and then can you scale it and it sounds like you can scale it to a it sounds like you can scale it to a it sounds like you can scale it to a certain point even captura only gets so certain point even captura only gets so certain point even captura only gets so much volume for these right and so you much volume for these right and so you much volume for these right and so you can scale it until it until it can scale it until it until it can scale it until it until it runs out of leads right until it runs runs out of leads right until it runs runs out of leads right until it runs out of monthly leads out of monthly leads out of monthly leads um and as he said um and as he said um and as he said you know I think the big thing to think you know I think the big thing to think you know I think the big thing to think about is if you're going to do this like about is if you're going to do this like about is if you're going to do this like try to rank but you know rank where your try to rank but you know rank where your try to rank but you know rank where your budget allows you but budget allows you but budget allows you but he's found six and a half or seven is he's found six and a half or seven is he's found six and a half or seven is the ideal which is not something I would the ideal which is not something I would the ideal which is not something I would have guessed to be honest so I think have guessed to be honest so I think have guessed to be honest so I think that was a really nice um that was a really nice um that was a really nice um nice question nice question nice question and then the last question from gupreet and then the last question from gupreet and then the last question from gupreet uh there's two questions but actually uh there's two questions but actually uh there's two questions but actually yeah Brian you asked Iran yeah Brian you asked Iran yeah Brian you asked Iran um about how he markets through trade um about how he markets through trade um about how he markets through trade associations and since he's not here associations and since he's not here associations and since he's not here since that was was pre-recorded due to since that was was pre-recorded due to since that was was pre-recorded due to his time zone uh I I'm not you know I'm his time zone uh I I'm not you know I'm his time zone uh I I'm not you know I'm not able to uh to uh answer that because not able to uh to uh answer that because not able to uh to uh answer that because I don't know how he does that um but I don't know how he does that um but I don't know how he does that um but last question from Capri before we dive last question from Capri before we dive last question from Capri before we dive into founder by founder is are you into founder by founder is are you into founder by founder is are you incentivizing customers to review on incentivizing customers to review on incentivizing customers to review on captera free months or any rewards and captera free months or any rewards and captera free months or any rewards and I'm pretty sure he is not and in fact I I'm pretty sure he is not and in fact I I'm pretty sure he is not and in fact I don't know the founders I've seen do don't know the founders I've seen do don't know the founders I've seen do this and I've probably seen let's say in

this and I've probably seen let's say in this and I've probably seen let's say in the last year maybe half a dozen to a the last year maybe half a dozen to a the last year maybe half a dozen to a dozen in that range no one so it's not dozen in that range no one so it's not dozen in that range no one so it's not it's not like I've seen thousands doing it's not like I've seen thousands doing it's not like I've seen thousands doing it right none of them have incentivized it right none of them have incentivized it right none of them have incentivized they have said they've either sent out they have said they've either sent out they have said they've either sent out an email saying hey if you love you know an email saying hey if you love you know an email saying hey if you love you know if you love my tool because I did this if you love my tool because I did this if you love my tool because I did this for like savvical did it right so that's for like savvical did it right so that's for like savvical did it right so that's what I was about to say but like you what I was about to say but like you what I was about to say but like you just sent out an email and said if you just sent out an email and said if you just sent out an email and said if you love The Tool be really great if you love The Tool be really great if you love The Tool be really great if you could help us out and he got enough could help us out and he got enough could help us out and he got enough people doing it and then the other one people doing it and then the other one people doing it and then the other one is in your support queue if someone says is in your support queue if someone says is in your support queue if someone says this is such a great tool I love it this is such a great tool I love it this is such a great tool I love it you say you know what be amazing is if you say you know what be amazing is if you say you know what be amazing is if you could help us out do this and you could help us out do this and you could help us out do this and there's there's no incentive there's there's no incentive there's there's no incentive um needed as far as I have seen it's a um needed as far as I have seen it's a um needed as far as I have seen it's a good question though thanks for asking