What SaaS founders should know about accessibility & design

We're live. Welcome to today's episode We're live. Welcome to today's episode of MicroConf On Air. I'm your host Rob of MicroConf On Air. I'm your host Rob of MicroConf On Air. I'm your host Rob Walling. Every other Wednesday at 1:00 Walling. Every other Wednesday at 1:00 Walling. Every other Wednesday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, we p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, we p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, we live stream for 30 minutes and we cover live stream for 30 minutes and we cover live stream for 30 minutes and we cover topics related to building and growing topics related to building and growing topics related to building and growing ambitious SaaS startups that bring us ambitious SaaS startups that bring us ambitious SaaS startups that bring us freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to freedom and purpose and allow us to maintain healthy relationships. maintain healthy relationships. maintain healthy relationships. Sometimes we show up and we have hair Sometimes we show up and we have hair Sometimes we show up and we have hair caught on our face that's bothering us. caught on our face that's bothering us. caught on our face that's bothering us. If you guys can't see that, I must look If you guys can't see that, I must look If you guys can't see that, I must look like a crazy person. like a crazy person. like a crazy person. Thanks so much for joining us again. Um Thanks so much for joining us again. Um Thanks so much for joining us again. Um we had to postpone last week, so I think we had to postpone last week, so I think we had to postpone last week, so I think we have two shows in two weeks. We're we have two shows in two weeks. We're we have two shows in two weeks. We're doing one today and then one again next doing one today and then one again next doing one today and then one again next Wednesday, but it's good to have you Wednesday, but it's good to have you Wednesday, but it's good to have you back, regular listeners, regular back, regular listeners, regular back, regular listeners, regular audience members. And if this is your audience members. And if this is your audience members. And if this is your first time, welcome. As I said, we do first time, welcome. As I said, we do first time, welcome. As I said, we do these every other week and we also float these every other week and we also float these every other week and we also float these out. We post them to YouTube these out. We post them to YouTube these out. We post them to YouTube and then we put them on the MicroConf and then we put them on the MicroConf and then we put them on the MicroConf podcast feed. So if you're not checking podcast feed. So if you're not checking podcast feed. So if you're not checking out microconfpodcast.com, out microconfpodcast.com, out microconfpodcast.com, that RSS feed includes these episodes, that RSS feed includes these episodes, that RSS feed includes these episodes, which is really nice in case you missed which is really nice in case you missed which is really nice in case you missed one. you can do it asynchronously, you one. you can do it asynchronously, you one. you can do it asynchronously, you can 1.5x them as I do. Then we also do can 1.5x them as I do. Then we also do can 1.5x them as I do. Then we also do MicroConf Refresh episodes where we go MicroConf Refresh episodes where we go MicroConf Refresh episodes where we go back over the best talk from their best back over the best talk from their best back over the best talk from their best talks of the last 10, 11 years of talks of the last 10, 11 years of talks of the last 10, 11 years of MicroConf and we pull the audio and put MicroConf and we pull the audio and put MicroConf and we pull the audio and put them in that feed. And then we have some them in that feed. And then we have some them in that feed. And then we have some other special other special other special kind of special audio stuff that goes on kind of special audio stuff that goes on kind of special audio stuff that goes on that as well.

that as well. that as well. So today, we're going to be talking So today, we're going to be talking So today, we're going to be talking about what SaaS founders need to know about what SaaS founders need to know about what SaaS founders need to know about accessibility about accessibility about accessibility in design. So it's in design. So it's in design. So it's accessibility for SaaS founders in accessibility for SaaS founders in accessibility for SaaS founders in essence. And today I'm welcoming essence. And today I'm welcoming essence. And today I'm welcoming welcoming an expert on the subject. Her welcoming an expert on the subject. Her welcoming an expert on the subject. Her name is Beth Hannon. name is Beth Hannon. name is Beth Hannon. She runs BHB Websites. She's a web She runs BHB Websites. She's a web She runs BHB Websites. She's a web advisor to startups. advisor to startups. advisor to startups. Uh Uh Uh WordPress accessibility and Gravity WordPress accessibility and Gravity WordPress accessibility and Gravity Forms. Forms. Forms. Um she is a Um she is a Um she is a Let's I'm trying to think. She says she Let's I'm trying to think. She says she Let's I'm trying to think. She says she Her pronouns are she and her. She's a Her pronouns are she and her. She's a Her pronouns are she and her. She's a wife, a mom, a grandma, and an aspiring wife, a mom, a grandma, and an aspiring wife, a mom, a grandma, and an aspiring anti-racist anti-racist. Beth Hannon, anti-racist anti-racist. Beth Hannon, anti-racist anti-racist. Beth Hannon, welcome to the show. Great. Good to be welcome to the show. Great. Good to be welcome to the show. Great. Good to be here. Thanks. And you're you're calling here. Thanks. And you're you're calling here. Thanks. And you're you're calling in. Are you in Portland? Is that right? in. Are you in Portland? Is that right? in. Are you in Portland? Is that right? No, I'm in Bend, which is about 3 and No, I'm in Bend, which is about 3 and No, I'm in Bend, which is about 3 and 1/2 hours southeast on the other side of 1/2 hours southeast on the other side of 1/2 hours southeast on the other side of the mountain range. the mountain range. the mountain range. Yep. So still in Oregon, but because you Yep. So still in Oregon, but because you Yep. So still in Oregon, but because you you and I, you know, so folks know, you and I, you know, so folks know, you and I, you know, so folks know, we've met each other 12-ish years ago we've met each other 12-ish years ago we've met each other 12-ish years ago when we both lived in Fresno and then I when we both lived in Fresno and then I when we both lived in Fresno and then I relocated to Minneapolis, you to Bend, relocated to Minneapolis, you to Bend, relocated to Minneapolis, you to Bend, it sounds like. And then we ran into it sounds like. And then we ran into it sounds like. And then we ran into each other a couple weeks ago at each other a couple weeks ago at each other a couple weeks ago at MicroConf Portland Local. Yeah, that was MicroConf Portland Local. Yeah, that was MicroConf Portland Local. Yeah, that was good to see you there. Yeah. So let's good to see you there. Yeah. So let's good to see you there. Yeah. So let's let's kick this off. I have some notes let's kick this off. I have some notes let's kick this off. I have some notes here I want to talk through. You know, here I want to talk through. You know, here I want to talk through. You know, I've so I've I've so I've I've so I've I used to be a software developer, not I used to be a software developer, not I used to be a software developer, not so much anymore, but I remember so much anymore, but I remember so much anymore, but I remember accessibility was always a accessibility was always a accessibility was always a thing that was on our mind, but it was thing that was on our mind, but it was thing that was on our mind, but it was often pushed to the corner, right? Or it often pushed to the corner, right? Or it often pushed to the corner, right? Or it was pushed to the like the last thing of was pushed to the like the last thing of was pushed to the like the last thing of like, "Oh, now we need to go think about like, "Oh, now we need to go think about like, "Oh, now we need to go think about that and tack it on." So so folks know, that and tack it on." So so folks know, that and tack it on." So so folks know, just to set the stage, like what is web

just to set the stage, like what is web just to set the stage, like what is web accessibility? accessibility? accessibility? Yeah, and that that way of that that Yeah, and that that way of that that Yeah, and that that way of that that trend or that habit of pushing it off to trend or that habit of pushing it off to trend or that habit of pushing it off to the end is the most expensive way to do the end is the most expensive way to do the end is the most expensive way to do accessibility, by the way. Yep. Um so, accessibility, by the way. Yep. Um so, accessibility, by the way. Yep. Um so, web accessibility is really about um on web accessibility is really about um on web accessibility is really about um on online platforms, so websites, but also online platforms, so websites, but also online platforms, so websites, but also other kinds of platforms, SaaS, other other kinds of platforms, SaaS, other other kinds of platforms, SaaS, other things. It's making those things. It's making those things. It's making those um um um accessible or usable to the broadest accessible or usable to the broadest accessible or usable to the broadest range of people, including people with range of people, including people with range of people, including people with disabilities. So, people who are blind disabilities. So, people who are blind disabilities. So, people who are blind have a tool called a screen reader, and have a tool called a screen reader, and have a tool called a screen reader, and it basically reads out loud to them all it basically reads out loud to them all it basically reads out loud to them all of the content and structure of the page of the content and structure of the page of the content and structure of the page if it's properly formatted for that. So, if it's properly formatted for that. So, if it's properly formatted for that. So, for example, if your form has aria for example, if your form has aria for example, if your form has aria labels on it, they can read out loud labels on it, they can read out loud labels on it, they can read out loud those things. Um people who um have those things. Um people who um have those things. Um people who um have mobility impairments, they can't use a mobility impairments, they can't use a mobility impairments, they can't use a mouse, but uh they can use other all mouse, but uh they can use other all mouse, but uh they can use other all kinds of assistive devices. You know, kinds of assistive devices. You know, kinds of assistive devices. You know, there are thousands of them. Stephen there are thousands of them. Stephen there are thousands of them. Stephen Hawking had a little cheek sensor that Hawking had a little cheek sensor that Hawking had a little cheek sensor that he could kind of uh kind of wink and he could kind of uh kind of wink and he could kind of uh kind of wink and blink and move around the webpage. All blink and move around the webpage. All blink and move around the webpage. All of those and at first, when I first of those and at first, when I first of those and at first, when I first started, I thought, "Oh my gosh, there's started, I thought, "Oh my gosh, there's started, I thought, "Oh my gosh, there's thousands of those devices. How would I thousands of those devices. How would I thousands of those devices. How would I ever account for all of that?" Well, it ever account for all of that?" Well, it ever account for all of that?" Well, it all comes down to keyboard navigation.

all comes down to keyboard navigation. all comes down to keyboard navigation. So, if your So, if your So, if your program your SaaS or your website is program your SaaS or your website is program your SaaS or your website is keyboard navigable, if you can go to the keyboard navigable, if you can go to the keyboard navigable, if you can go to the site and start tapping the tab key or site and start tapping the tab key or site and start tapping the tab key or the shift tab key, and you can get the shift tab key, and you can get the shift tab key, and you can get around, then you know, that's part of around, then you know, that's part of around, then you know, that's part of accessibility. But, accessibility is accessibility. But, accessibility is accessibility. But, accessibility is much broader than that, too. It includes much broader than that, too. It includes much broader than that, too. It includes things like things like things like color contrast for people who have color contrast for people who have color contrast for people who have visual impairments, but also, you know, visual impairments, but also, you know, visual impairments, but also, you know, some of us that are we're we're 50 now, some of us that are we're we're 50 now, some of us that are we're we're 50 now, having that kind of issues with uh having that kind of issues with uh having that kind of issues with uh visibility, and eyes are changing. Um visibility, and eyes are changing. Um visibility, and eyes are changing. Um people who are color blind, and we even people who are color blind, and we even people who are color blind, and we even start to talk about things like start to talk about things like start to talk about things like trying to be um trying to help people trying to be um trying to help people trying to be um trying to help people who have anxiety or depression or who have anxiety or depression or who have anxiety or depression or reading disabilities to, you know, you reading disabilities to, you know, you reading disabilities to, you know, you you want to break up your uh break up you want to break up your uh break up you want to break up your uh break up your process or let people know where your process or let people know where your process or let people know where they are in the process. That reduces they are in the process. That reduces they are in the process. That reduces anxiety. So, all kinds of things that anxiety. So, all kinds of things that anxiety. So, all kinds of things that you can include in it in the you can include in it in the you can include in it in the accessibility. That's really accessibility. That's really accessibility. That's really interesting. And so, interesting. And so, interesting. And so, you know, if someone's out there, let's you know, if someone's out there, let's you know, if someone's out there, let's say a founder right now has has a SaaS say a founder right now has has a SaaS say a founder right now has has a SaaS app that's doing a few grand a month and app that's doing a few grand a month and app that's doing a few grand a month and they're trying to get traction and such they're trying to get traction and such they're trying to get traction and such and they're wondering like, you know, and they're wondering like, you know, and they're wondering like, you know, what portion of the population or like what portion of the population or like what portion of the population or like how many people are impacted by this?

how many people are impacted by this? how many people are impacted by this? Because often times, I mean, you know, I Because often times, I mean, you know, I Because often times, I mean, you know, I know it's not the same, but if I'm know it's not the same, but if I'm know it's not the same, but if I'm running a SaaS app and 1% of my user running a SaaS app and 1% of my user running a SaaS app and 1% of my user base will use a feature right or 1% of base will use a feature right or 1% of base will use a feature right or 1% of my user base is requesting a feature, my user base is requesting a feature, my user base is requesting a feature, usually I don't prioritize it. I know usually I don't prioritize it. I know usually I don't prioritize it. I know accessibility is different than building accessibility is different than building accessibility is different than building a feature, but but the idea is, you a feature, but but the idea is, you a feature, but but the idea is, you know, we have to prioritize these know, we have to prioritize these know, we have to prioritize these things. So, give me your thoughts and things. So, give me your thoughts and things. So, give me your thoughts and idea. idea. idea. So, a couple things. Well, you know, the So, a couple things. Well, you know, the So, a couple things. Well, you know, the the UN says about 15% worldwide, the UN says about 15% worldwide, the UN says about 15% worldwide, globally, but CDC and other developed globally, but CDC and other developed globally, but CDC and other developed nations put that that number higher, 20 nations put that that number higher, 20 nations put that that number higher, 20 to 25% of all US adults. And so, we to 25% of all US adults. And so, we to 25% of all US adults. And so, we think that those think that those think that those that higher number is probably more that higher number is probably more that higher number is probably more accurate in terms of reporting. And accurate in terms of reporting. And accurate in terms of reporting. And that's at any one time and that is for that's at any one time and that is for that's at any one time and that is for people who have a permanent or a people who have a permanent or a people who have a permanent or a temporary disability. You know, if I temporary disability. You know, if I temporary disability. You know, if I break my hand really badly and I can't break my hand really badly and I can't break my hand really badly and I can't use a mouse for a while, that's a use a mouse for a while, that's a use a mouse for a while, that's a temporary disability. And so, it it can temporary disability. And so, it it can temporary disability. And so, it it can be be be a much bigger percentage of people than a much bigger percentage of people than a much bigger percentage of people than I would have ever imagined. And you I would have ever imagined. And you I would have ever imagined. And you know, if you know, if you know, if you you can spend all kinds of marketing you can spend all kinds of marketing you can spend all kinds of marketing money trying to increase your audience money trying to increase your audience money trying to increase your audience by even just 5%, but you know, if you're by even just 5%, but you know, if you're by even just 5%, but you know, if you're trying to make things accessible, you trying to make things accessible, you trying to make things accessible, you can actually can actually can actually increase that audience by quite a bit.

increase that audience by quite a bit. increase that audience by quite a bit. And so, that's that's a alone is a And so, that's that's a alone is a And so, that's that's a alone is a really great reason to start to think really great reason to start to think really great reason to start to think about making things accessible. You about making things accessible. You about making things accessible. You know, the other thing is know, the other thing is know, the other thing is depending on what you do and depending on what you do and depending on what you do and what you're offering, you may have some what you're offering, you may have some what you're offering, you may have some legal requirements to make your platform legal requirements to make your platform legal requirements to make your platform or your or your or your site accessible. site accessible. site accessible. People are being sued under the People are being sued under the People are being sued under the Americans with Disabilities Act. That's Americans with Disabilities Act. That's Americans with Disabilities Act. That's the public accommodations section. And the public accommodations section. And the public accommodations section. And so, so, so, you know, that's not the best reason to you know, that's not the best reason to you know, that's not the best reason to make things accessible, but you know, make things accessible, but you know, make things accessible, but you know, that's that's that's that's a a really good motivation for a that's a a really good motivation for a that's a a really good motivation for a lot of people is to try try to avoid lot of people is to try try to avoid lot of people is to try try to avoid getting sued. getting sued. getting sued. And you know, at your day job running And you know, at your day job running And you know, at your day job running your consulting firm, I know your consulting firm, I know your consulting firm, I know you know, your your H1 on your website you know, your your H1 on your website you know, your your H1 on your website is we build accessible websites that is we build accessible websites that is we build accessible websites that help grow your business. Do you help grow your business. Do you help grow your business. Do you only design and build your own well for only design and build your own well for only design and build your own well for for clients or do you also come into for clients or do you also come into for clients or do you also come into clients ever call you and they're like clients ever call you and they're like clients ever call you and they're like look we're halfway through the the thing look we're halfway through the the thing look we're halfway through the the thing and we need you to consult and help us and we need you to consult and help us and we need you to consult and help us like at okay so you do both. I mean like at okay so you do both. I mean like at okay so you do both. I mean you're like in you're like in you're like in We we do both and and here's the you We we do both and and here's the you We we do both and and here's the you know we we we don't build anything know we we we don't build anything know we we we don't build anything that's not accessible. I mean that's that's not accessible. I mean that's that's not accessible. I mean that's just an investment in our brand right we just an investment in our brand right we just an investment in our brand right we and so once in a while we'll we'll have and so once in a while we'll we'll have and so once in a while we'll we'll have that sort of issue with the client where that sort of issue with the client where that sort of issue with the client where we'll say you know look this salmon we'll say you know look this salmon we'll say you know look this salmon colored button with the white font that colored button with the white font that colored button with the white font that doesn't meet a color contrast guideline doesn't meet a color contrast guideline doesn't meet a color contrast guideline and you know sometimes once in a while and you know sometimes once in a while and you know sometimes once in a while they'll sign off and you know totally they'll sign off and you know totally they'll sign off and you know totally release us from liability and Hmm. agree release us from liability and Hmm. agree release us from liability and Hmm. agree that they will pay all of our costs if that they will pay all of our costs if that they will pay all of our costs if they ever get sued over all those kinds they ever get sued over all those kinds they ever get sued over all those kinds of legal things right you know to get of legal things right you know to get of legal things right you know to get out of it but but you know we really put out of it but but you know we really put out of it but but you know we really put a big investment in trying to make

a big investment in trying to make a big investment in trying to make things accessible. Right. Yeah we fix things accessible. Right. Yeah we fix things accessible. Right. Yeah we fix things too so yeah. What got you into things too so yeah. What got you into things too so yeah. What got you into this? I know you know when last time you this? I know you know when last time you this? I know you know when last time you and I talked 10 years ago I think you and I talked 10 years ago I think you and I talked 10 years ago I think you were doing WordPress consulting but how were doing WordPress consulting but how were doing WordPress consulting but how what was the path that got you to what was the path that got you to what was the path that got you to accessibility? accessibility? accessibility? Yeah we still do primarily WordPress in Yeah we still do primarily WordPress in Yeah we still do primarily WordPress in terms of our builds. We work with all terms of our builds. We work with all terms of our builds. We work with all kinds of platforms of course doing kind kinds of platforms of course doing kind kinds of platforms of course doing kind of audits and accessibility kind of of audits and accessibility kind of of audits and accessibility kind of feedback and consulting. But feedback and consulting. But feedback and consulting. But what got us into is actually from the what got us into is actually from the what got us into is actually from the Central Valley California. So Westlands Central Valley California. So Westlands Central Valley California. So Westlands Water District is a big agricultural Water District is a big agricultural Water District is a big agricultural water district in California and they're water district in California and they're water district in California and they're actually structurally a part of the actually structurally a part of the actually structurally a part of the state of California they're special state of California they're special state of California they're special district and that means because they're district and that means because they're district and that means because they're government that they have to be government that they have to be government that they have to be accessible they have a a compliance accessible they have a a compliance accessible they have a a compliance requirement. And we had been helping requirement. And we had been helping requirement. And we had been helping them with their WordPress website for a them with their WordPress website for a them with their WordPress website for a couple years and then they came to us couple years and then they came to us couple years and then they came to us and said hey we and said hey we and said hey we we have this we are aware we now have we have this we are aware we now have we have this we are aware we now have this big compliance issue. So this big compliance issue. So this big compliance issue. So we at first said hey let us you know we at first said hey let us you know we at first said hey let us you know help you connect you with people who help you connect you with people who help you connect you with people who know way more about this and they went know way more about this and they went know way more about this and they went well well well yeah bring in those people but we want yeah bring in those people but we want yeah bring in those people but we want you to be able to kind of be the ongoing you to be able to kind of be the ongoing you to be able to kind of be the ongoing partner for this and that was you know partner for this and that was you know partner for this and that was you know once we got in and we once we got in and we once we got in and we the first time I saw the first time I saw the first time I saw a person who was blind navigate at a a person who was blind navigate at a a person who was blind navigate at a conference, at the registration table conference, at the registration table conference, at the registration table for a conference, for a conference, for a conference, go on their phone to the conference go on their phone to the conference go on their phone to the conference website, website, website, she's got her earbud in one side, and she's got her earbud in one side, and she's got her earbud in one side, and she's she's listening, right? She's she's she's listening, right? She's she's she's listening, right? She's going she turns to me and she says, going she turns to me and she says, going she turns to me and she says, "Where's the banjo room?"

"Where's the banjo room?" "Where's the banjo room?" And I'm like, And I'm like, And I'm like, like she got everything she needed like she got everything she needed like she got everything she needed without having to ask people or be without having to ask people or be without having to ask people or be dependent or what in that sense of wow, dependent or what in that sense of wow, dependent or what in that sense of wow, the impact that you can make on people's the impact that you can make on people's the impact that you can make on people's lives, that you can help them be lives, that you can help them be lives, that you can help them be independent, and you know, and then independent, and you know, and then independent, and you know, and then after that, hearing horror stories from after that, hearing horror stories from after that, hearing horror stories from people where, you know, they have to people where, you know, they have to people where, you know, they have to depend on depend on depend on a stranger at the ATM to help them with a stranger at the ATM to help them with a stranger at the ATM to help them with their banking or, you know, some of their banking or, you know, some of their banking or, you know, some of those kinds of things. It's really you those kinds of things. It's really you those kinds of things. It's really you want to, you know, you just want to make want to, you know, you just want to make want to, you know, you just want to make the world a more the world a more the world a more I mean, it's a I mean, it's a I mean, it's a I mean, it's kind of a karma thing, too, I mean, it's kind of a karma thing, too, I mean, it's kind of a karma thing, too, right? You know, it's it's just a really right? You know, it's it's just a really right? You know, it's it's just a really incredible thing to feel like you're incredible thing to feel like you're incredible thing to feel like you're changing changing changing the the the impact in people's lives in that way. impact in people's lives in that way. impact in people's lives in that way. So, it's So, it's So, it's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's an incredible time in Yeah, and it's an incredible time in Yeah, and it's an incredible time in history, right? Because we have these history, right? Because we have these history, right? Because we have these mobile computers in our pocket with mobile computers in our pocket with mobile computers in our pocket with incredible visual abilities. I mean, I incredible visual abilities. I mean, I incredible visual abilities. I mean, I have an app that I can take a picture of have an app that I can take a picture of have an app that I can take a picture of like a, you know, a sign in German and like a, you know, a sign in German and like a, you know, a sign in German and it translates it to English, right? it translates it to English, right? it translates it to English, right? Which is incredible. And 20 years ago, Which is incredible. And 20 years ago, Which is incredible. And 20 years ago, 25 years ago, I'm imagining if I'm 25 years ago, I'm imagining if I'm 25 years ago, I'm imagining if I'm hearing impaired or I'm blind, you have hearing impaired or I'm blind, you have hearing impaired or I'm blind, you have probably clunky, big devices if you have probably clunky, big devices if you have probably clunky, big devices if you have anything at all to help me navigate the anything at all to help me navigate the anything at all to help me navigate the world, right? And actually, all of those world, right? And actually, all of those world, right? And actually, all of those thing a lot of those kind of tools that thing a lot of those kind of tools that thing a lot of those kind of tools that we depend on today all started out as we depend on today all started out as we depend on today all started out as tools for people with disabilities. Like tools for people with disabilities. Like tools for people with disabilities. Like the AI stuff, all of the Google Home and the AI stuff, all of the Google Home and the AI stuff, all of the Google Home and Alexa and all of those things. All of Alexa and all of those things. All of Alexa and all of those things. All of those things really started as kind of those things really started as kind of those things really started as kind of um um um tools for people to help people with tools for people to help people with tools for people to help people with disability and then kind of crossed over disability and then kind of crossed over disability and then kind of crossed over into the mainstream. And really, there's into the mainstream. And really, there's into the mainstream. And really, there's kind of a parallel. When you make your kind of a parallel. When you make your kind of a parallel. When you make your website more accessible, you're really

website more accessible, you're really website more accessible, you're really improving the user experience for improving the user experience for improving the user experience for everybody, right? everybody, right? everybody, right? And I sometimes call that the curb cut And I sometimes call that the curb cut And I sometimes call that the curb cut effect, right? Curb cuts are originally effect, right? Curb cuts are originally effect, right? Curb cuts are originally for wheelchairs or, you know, carts, for wheelchairs or, you know, carts, for wheelchairs or, you know, carts, mobility carts, but we all use the curb mobility carts, but we all use the curb mobility carts, but we all use the curb cuts, right? When we're biking or using cuts, right? When we're biking or using cuts, right? When we're biking or using strollers or all of the other dragging strollers or all of the other dragging strollers or all of the other dragging our luggage. And so, you know, it's a our luggage. And so, you know, it's a our luggage. And so, you know, it's a it's a way that you can improve that it's a way that you can improve that it's a way that you can improve that user experience for everybody. Yeah. user experience for everybody. Yeah. user experience for everybody. Yeah. If folks listening or watching, if you If folks listening or watching, if you If folks listening or watching, if you have a question, please pipe that into have a question, please pipe that into have a question, please pipe that into our Slack channel at MicroConf on Air. our Slack channel at MicroConf on Air. our Slack channel at MicroConf on Air. Producer Zander will bring those Producer Zander will bring those Producer Zander will bring those questions in. It's always good to have questions in. It's always good to have questions in. It's always good to have audience participation. audience participation. audience participation. While we're waiting on on questions, um While we're waiting on on questions, um While we're waiting on on questions, um accessibility accessibility accessibility on the web, especially, has been I know on the web, especially, has been I know on the web, especially, has been I know there's a lot of overlap with SEO. there's a lot of overlap with SEO. there's a lot of overlap with SEO. Yes. Yes. Yes. You want You want to talk us through You want You want to talk us through You want You want to talk us through that? Yeah, so a lot of what makes that? Yeah, so a lot of what makes that? Yeah, so a lot of what makes websites accessible in terms of things websites accessible in terms of things websites accessible in terms of things like alt text on your images or your like alt text on your images or your like alt text on your images or your proper heading structure with your H proper heading structure with your H proper heading structure with your H tags, a one and one-only H tags, a one and one-only H tags, a one and one-only H H1 tag, and then properly nested all the H1 tag, and then properly nested all the H1 tag, and then properly nested all the way down. You know, all of those things way down. You know, all of those things way down. You know, all of those things are also things that Google is using for are also things that Google is using for are also things that Google is using for and other search engines for ranking and other search engines for ranking and other search engines for ranking your site. And so, when you do your site. And so, when you do your site. And so, when you do accessibility right in terms of putting accessibility right in terms of putting accessibility right in terms of putting all those other things together, all of all those other things together, all of all those other things together, all of the schema pieces, all of those, all get the schema pieces, all of those, all get the schema pieces, all of those, all get pulled into screen readers and keyboard pulled into screen readers and keyboard pulled into screen readers and keyboard navigation and for for accessibility.

navigation and for for accessibility. navigation and for for accessibility. So, you know, when you make your site So, you know, when you make your site So, you know, when you make your site accessible, you're almost always accessible, you're almost always accessible, you're almost always definitely improving your SEO as well. definitely improving your SEO as well. definitely improving your SEO as well. And I you know, you you had mentioned And I you know, you you had mentioned And I you know, you you had mentioned something about the opportunity of something about the opportunity of something about the opportunity of having accessibility improving your having accessibility improving your having accessibility improving your churn your churn rates if you're let's churn your churn rates if you're let's churn your churn rates if you're let's say you're a SaaS app where folks can say you're a SaaS app where folks can say you're a SaaS app where folks can cancel. Talk me through that. Yeah, so cancel. Talk me through that. Yeah, so cancel. Talk me through that. Yeah, so we know that statistically disabilities we know that statistically disabilities we know that statistically disabilities increase as people age. You can think increase as people age. You can think increase as people age. You can think about that, just even like about that, just even like about that, just even like vision-related changes, but all kinds of vision-related changes, but all kinds of vision-related changes, but all kinds of other other other disabilities. You know, as you have more disabilities. You know, as you have more disabilities. You know, as you have more exposure, you can have more accidents. exposure, you can have more accidents. exposure, you can have more accidents. You can, you know, lose a hand or, you You can, you know, lose a hand or, you You can, you know, lose a hand or, you know, all all kinds of things. So, know, all all kinds of things. So, know, all all kinds of things. So, disabilities increase as people age. So, disabilities increase as people age. So, disabilities increase as people age. So, making your site accessible mean is a in making your site accessible mean is a in making your site accessible mean is a in a sense an investment in your current a sense an investment in your current a sense an investment in your current customers, right? Your current customers customers, right? Your current customers customers, right? Your current customers can stay with you as they develop can stay with you as they develop can stay with you as they develop disabilities because you're making it disabilities because you're making it disabilities because you're making it accessible for them. Got it. That Yeah, accessible for them. Got it. That Yeah, accessible for them. Got it. That Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Looks like we that makes a lot of sense. Looks like we that makes a lot of sense. Looks like we have a question from have a question from have a question from someone in the audience. What are some someone in the audience. What are some someone in the audience. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see people of the biggest mistakes you see people of the biggest mistakes you see people um um um the biggest mistakes you see people the biggest mistakes you see people the biggest mistakes you see people making when trying to make their product making when trying to make their product making when trying to make their product accessible. I'd imagine the big one is accessible. I'd imagine the big one is accessible. I'd imagine the big one is they don't at all, right? They don't they don't at all, right? They don't they don't at all, right? They don't even think about it. So, maybe aside even think about it. So, maybe aside even think about it. So, maybe aside from that, yeah. They don't at all. And from that, yeah. They don't at all. And from that, yeah. They don't at all. And then the next one is I mean I'll I'll then the next one is I mean I'll I'll then the next one is I mean I'll I'll talk about some of the specifics of talk about some of the specifics of talk about some of the specifics of accessibility, but the other one is they accessibility, but the other one is they accessibility, but the other one is they they wait until the end to tack it on.

they wait until the end to tack it on. they wait until the end to tack it on. And then it's really hard to go back and And then it's really hard to go back and And then it's really hard to go back and kind of retrofit things. It's easier if kind of retrofit things. It's easier if kind of retrofit things. It's easier if you're starting and building things out you're starting and building things out you're starting and building things out to think about accessibility from the to think about accessibility from the to think about accessibility from the beginning in terms of even things like beginning in terms of even things like beginning in terms of even things like color choices for your design that are color choices for your design that are color choices for your design that are going to be good for making the correct going to be good for making the correct going to be good for making the correct buttons and color font contrast, right? buttons and color font contrast, right? buttons and color font contrast, right? So, things like that that are harder to So, things like that that are harder to So, things like that that are harder to change once you get them established. change once you get them established. change once you get them established. Um so, uh Um so, uh Um so, uh you know, it you know, it you know, it it doesn't sound like that, but then it doesn't sound like that, but then it doesn't sound like that, but then once you have color I mean, you know, it once you have color I mean, you know, it once you have color I mean, you know, it starts to add up. So, you you want to starts to add up. So, you you want to starts to add up. So, you you want to definitely think about that going going definitely think about that going going definitely think about that going going forward. And then all the Cody forward. And then all the Cody forward. And then all the Cody common places for where people could common places for where people could common places for where people could make a quick impact are make a quick impact are make a quick impact are um going to be all text on your images. um going to be all text on your images. um going to be all text on your images. Not all images, I mean, you got to read Not all images, I mean, you got to read Not all images, I mean, you got to read on that. If it's a decorative image like on that. If it's a decorative image like on that. If it's a decorative image like a spacer or a divider, that doesn't get a spacer or a divider, that doesn't get a spacer or a divider, that doesn't get an all text text, but it gets all text, an all text text, but it gets all text, an all text text, but it gets all text, you know, just has nothing there. Um but you know, just has nothing there. Um but you know, just has nothing there. Um but but all text on images, properly nested but all text on images, properly nested but all text on images, properly nested H tags, and then color contrast with H tags, and then color contrast with H tags, and then color contrast with your fonts. Those are the kind of the your fonts. Those are the kind of the your fonts. Those are the kind of the big three. If you take care of those, big three. If you take care of those, big three. If you take care of those, that's generally speaking about uh I that's generally speaking about uh I that's generally speaking about uh I would say you know 75% of all of your would say you know 75% of all of your would say you know 75% of all of your accessibility issues. The one thing to accessibility issues. The one thing to accessibility issues. The one thing to watch out for though is there are watch out for though is there are watch out for though is there are well, a couple things. One is there are well, a couple things. One is there are well, a couple things. One is there are automated AI devices that will let you automated AI devices that will let you automated AI devices that will let you test your website accessibility. You can test your website accessibility. You can test your website accessibility. You can put your your URL into an automated put your your URL into an automated put your your URL into an automated tester and it'll spit out kind of a a

tester and it'll spit out kind of a a tester and it'll spit out kind of a a grade or you know, give you a list of grade or you know, give you a list of grade or you know, give you a list of those issues. Those automated AI testing those issues. Those automated AI testing those issues. Those automated AI testing only catches about 30% of accessibility only catches about 30% of accessibility only catches about 30% of accessibility issues. So you will always want to go issues. So you will always want to go issues. So you will always want to go back because a lot of the accessibility back because a lot of the accessibility back because a lot of the accessibility guidelines and things are really context guidelines and things are really context guidelines and things are really context driven, right? AI can tell that you do driven, right? AI can tell that you do driven, right? AI can tell that you do or don't have alt text on an image, but or don't have alt text on an image, but or don't have alt text on an image, but it can't tell whether that's really good it can't tell whether that's really good it can't tell whether that's really good alt text, right? Is the alt text, you alt text, right? Is the alt text, you alt text, right? Is the alt text, you know, JPEG 54693? That's not accessible know, JPEG 54693? That's not accessible know, JPEG 54693? That's not accessible really, right? Is it really, right? Is it really, right? Is it is it got a is it got a is it got a alt text that's really giving context? alt text that's really giving context? alt text that's really giving context? So only about 30% and then So only about 30% and then So only about 30% and then for many sites there are growing there for many sites there are growing there for many sites there are growing there are growing SAS companies that are are growing SAS companies that are are growing SAS companies that are putting what's called overlays on. So putting what's called overlays on. So putting what's called overlays on. So they purport to give you, you know, one they purport to give you, you know, one they purport to give you, you know, one line of JavaScript or you know, a plugin line of JavaScript or you know, a plugin line of JavaScript or you know, a plugin on your WordPress site and they will on your WordPress site and they will on your WordPress site and they will make your site accessible. Well, those make your site accessible. Well, those make your site accessible. Well, those sites are driven by that AI. So they're sites are driven by that AI. So they're sites are driven by that AI. So they're really only catching really only catching really only catching that little bit. that little bit. that little bit. And And And they're they're really marketing they're they're they're really marketing they're they're they're really marketing they're playing on people's fears about playing on people's fears about playing on people's fears about lawsuits, but if you read the fine lawsuits, but if you read the fine lawsuits, but if you read the fine print, they don't stand behind you with print, they don't stand behind you with print, they don't stand behind you with on the lawsuit piece, right? There's a on the lawsuit piece, right? There's a on the lawsuit piece, right? There's a law that's on you in terms of of of that law that's on you in terms of of of that law that's on you in terms of of of that compliance. Overlays often also compliance. Overlays often also compliance. Overlays often also clash or or create conflicts with the clash or or create conflicts with the clash or or create conflicts with the existing tools that disabled users existing tools that disabled users existing tools that disabled users already have on their machines and already have on their machines and already have on their machines and rendering neither of them functional. So rendering neither of them functional. So rendering neither of them functional. So they often can make things even worse.

they often can make things even worse. they often can make things even worse. It's a great website called It's a great website called It's a great website called overlayfactsheet.com overlayfactsheet.com overlayfactsheet.com that explains that explains that explains how all that works and that's that's a how all that works and that's that's a how all that works and that's that's a really great place to start. really great place to start. really great place to start. That's cool. So, I like that summary. I That's cool. So, I like that summary. I That's cool. So, I like that summary. I was going to ask you, you know, what are was going to ask you, you know, what are was going to ask you, you know, what are the two or three things that people the two or three things that people the two or three things that people should focus on and then, you know, you should focus on and then, you know, you should focus on and then, you know, you just laid those out. Mhm. Um just laid those out. Mhm. Um just laid those out. Mhm. Um Let's see. Yeah, so Yeah, so um We talked about a lot of things. I mean, We talked about a lot of things. I mean, one of the things we haven't talked one of the things we haven't talked one of the things we haven't talked about yet is that, you know, making your about yet is that, you know, making your about yet is that, you know, making your uh your platform, your SaaS, your uh your platform, your SaaS, your uh your platform, your SaaS, your website accessible can really be an website accessible can really be an website accessible can really be an investment in your own brand. So, investment in your own brand. So, investment in your own brand. So, there's a lot of um there's a lot of um there's a lot of um uh uh uh Studies show that uh around 60% or more Studies show that uh around 60% or more Studies show that uh around 60% or more of buyers will be values-driven buyers. of buyers will be values-driven buyers. of buyers will be values-driven buyers. So, if they have two choices and they So, if they have two choices and they So, if they have two choices and they they could they will either avoid or or they could they will either avoid or or they could they will either avoid or or or buy from or buy from or buy from a particular vendor based on the values a particular vendor based on the values a particular vendor based on the values that are being shown there, right? We that are being shown there, right? We that are being shown there, right? We want to buy from the local people who want to buy from the local people who want to buy from the local people who are supporting our community or we want are supporting our community or we want are supporting our community or we want to we're going to boycott to we're going to boycott to we're going to boycott uh the the company that uses a uh the the company that uses a uh the the company that uses a sweatshop, right? And so, those sweatshop, right? And so, those sweatshop, right? And so, those values-driven buyers are huge and so, if values-driven buyers are huge and so, if values-driven buyers are huge and so, if you have competition you have competition you have competition that's doing the same, making that that's doing the same, making that that's doing the same, making that investment in making your site more investment in making your site more investment in making your site more accessible says that you want to be more accessible says that you want to be more accessible says that you want to be more inclusive, right? And it's not just inclusive, right? And it's not just inclusive, right? And it's not just inclusive of people who inclusive of people who inclusive of people who have a disability, but if I if I have a

have a disability, but if I if I have a have a disability, but if I if I have a friend or a family member that has a friend or a family member that has a friend or a family member that has a disability, then I care about how disability, then I care about how disability, then I care about how they're treated in the world. Right. So, they're treated in the world. Right. So, they're treated in the world. Right. So, for example, uh for example, uh for example, uh several years back, um I sent a a several years back, um I sent a a several years back, um I sent a a Calendly link to a blind vendor Calendly link to a blind vendor Calendly link to a blind vendor that was going to help a blind that was going to help a blind that was going to help a blind contractor that was going to help us on contractor that was going to help us on contractor that was going to help us on a project a project a project to schedule with me and she had to get to schedule with me and she had to get to schedule with me and she had to get back to me to say she couldn't use that back to me to say she couldn't use that back to me to say she couldn't use that link because it wasn't accessible. The link because it wasn't accessible. The link because it wasn't accessible. The Calendly picker was not accessible. Calendly picker was not accessible. Calendly picker was not accessible. So, I got back to them and I learned So, I got back to them and I learned So, I got back to them and I learned that it was a problem that had been that it was a problem that had been that it was a problem that had been identified for them. They knew about it. identified for them. They knew about it. identified for them. They knew about it. They were They said they were had They were They said they were had They were They said they were had something in progress. Now, that's something in progress. Now, that's something in progress. Now, that's happens a lot. You'll hear back, "Oh, happens a lot. You'll hear back, "Oh, happens a lot. You'll hear back, "Oh, yeah, we have something in the works." yeah, we have something in the works." yeah, we have something in the works." And then it And then it And then it you know how it is with SaaS companies, you know how it is with SaaS companies, you know how it is with SaaS companies, right? It's not a high priority. It right? It's not a high priority. It right? It's not a high priority. It takes a long, long time. But, pretty takes a long, long time. But, pretty takes a long, long time. But, pretty fairly quickly, within a few months, fairly quickly, within a few months, fairly quickly, within a few months, they came back. And they're not, you they came back. And they're not, you they came back. And they're not, you know, Calendly is a perfect with know, Calendly is a perfect with know, Calendly is a perfect with accessibility, but it's now usable. accessibility, but it's now usable. accessibility, but it's now usable. Right? But, if I if I didn't feel like Right? But, if I if I didn't feel like Right? But, if I if I didn't feel like that was the best choice and going to be that was the best choice and going to be that was the best choice and going to be accessible for the people that I care accessible for the people that I care accessible for the people that I care about, I would have found a different about, I would have found a different about, I would have found a different vendor. Right? I would have gone to vendor. Right? I would have gone to vendor. Right? I would have gone to something else. And so, those kinds of something else. And so, those kinds of something else. And so, those kinds of value-driven pieces can give you an edge value-driven pieces can give you an edge value-driven pieces can give you an edge in the market, too. It's an investment in the market, too. It's an investment in the market, too. It's an investment in your own brand.

in your own brand. in your own brand. Um and typically, we see that when Um and typically, we see that when Um and typically, we see that when people put like an accessibility people put like an accessibility people put like an accessibility statement on their website or their statement on their website or their statement on their website or their SaaS. And it typically says, "Yeah, we SaaS. And it typically says, "Yeah, we SaaS. And it typically says, "Yeah, we want this to be workable for the most want this to be workable for the most want this to be workable for the most people. We're trying to um use the people. We're trying to um use the people. We're trying to um use the um website content accessibility um website content accessibility um website content accessibility guidelines, WCAG 2.1 at the standard, guidelines, WCAG 2.1 at the standard, guidelines, WCAG 2.1 at the standard, and then let us know if you have and then let us know if you have and then let us know if you have problems." Because in reality, it's problems." Because in reality, it's problems." Because in reality, it's you know, you know, you know, I would say it's it's not realistic. No I would say it's it's not realistic. No I would say it's it's not realistic. No site, no platform is probably 100% site, no platform is probably 100% site, no platform is probably 100% accessible. And it's a journey. You're accessible. And it's a journey. You're accessible. And it's a journey. You're always improving your accessibility. always improving your accessibility. always improving your accessibility. Um and and it's impossible when you Um and and it's impossible when you Um and and it's impossible when you start thinking about it to when you start thinking about it to when you start thinking about it to when you start talking about people with multiple start talking about people with multiple start talking about people with multiple intersecting disabilities. Right. intersecting disabilities. Right. intersecting disabilities. Right. Right. So, there's it's really hard to Right. So, there's it's really hard to Right. So, there's it's really hard to accommodate. You can't even begin to accommodate. You can't even begin to accommodate. You can't even begin to think for every edge case of that. But, think for every edge case of that. But, think for every edge case of that. But, you can if somebody comes to you and you can if somebody comes to you and you can if somebody comes to you and says, "Hey, I need I need transcripts says, "Hey, I need I need transcripts says, "Hey, I need I need transcripts with those videos." with those videos." with those videos." Well, then maybe that's something you Well, then maybe that's something you Well, then maybe that's something you can figure out you could do, right? can figure out you could do, right? can figure out you could do, right? Right. Right. How do that? I mean, you Right. Right. How do that? I mean, you Right. Right. How do that? I mean, you know, you said no one's 100% um know, you said no one's 100% um know, you said no one's 100% um accessible, which makes sense. But, like accessible, which makes sense. But, like accessible, which makes sense. But, like how do some of the big players like how do some of the big players like how do some of the big players like Google, Facebook, Apple, you know, how Google, Facebook, Apple, you know, how Google, Facebook, Apple, you know, how do they do on there? Just with their do they do on there? Just with their do they do on there? Just with their maybe their web apps? Like have you maybe their web apps? Like have you maybe their web apps? Like have you looked ever looked through their sites looked ever looked through their sites looked ever looked through their sites and thought to yourself they do they do and thought to yourself they do they do and thought to yourself they do they do a pretty good job or is it like eh a pretty good job or is it like eh a pretty good job or is it like eh You know, I haven't looked at those You know, I haven't looked at those You know, I haven't looked at those actually. I do look at people's websites actually. I do look at people's websites actually. I do look at people's websites expert accessibility when I visit them, expert accessibility when I visit them, expert accessibility when I visit them, you know, and and we we look at things.

you know, and and we we look at things. you know, and and we we look at things. I it's kind of like, you know, when you I it's kind of like, you know, when you I it's kind of like, you know, when you encounter another SaaS app you look at encounter another SaaS app you look at encounter another SaaS app you look at how they how they how they it's kind of a little it's kind of a little it's kind of a little quirk, right? Well, yeah, you're that's quirk, right? Well, yeah, you're that's quirk, right? Well, yeah, you're that's what you do day-to-day, right? You think what you do day-to-day, right? You think what you do day-to-day, right? You think about this stuff. about this stuff. about this stuff. those big companies like Google and those big companies like Google and those big companies like Google and Microsoft and Apple they have Microsoft and Apple they have Microsoft and Apple they have accessibility experts in-house trying to accessibility experts in-house trying to accessibility experts in-house trying to work on on things. So work on on things. So work on on things. So it's it's really the harder the smaller it's it's really the harder the smaller it's it's really the harder the smaller to medium to medium to medium size companies that really have a size companies that really have a size companies that really have a struggle. Yep. struggle. Yep. struggle. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Um But you can get I mean Yep, yep, yep. Um But you can get I mean Yep, yep, yep. Um But you can get I mean the the way that you can work on this is the the way that you can work on this is the the way that you can work on this is I mean you can you can do some reading, I mean you can you can do some reading, I mean you can you can do some reading, you can do some learning and there's the you can do some learning and there's the you can do some learning and there's the standards you can read its standards you can read its standards you can read its documentation. So it's documentation. So it's documentation. So it's That's what I was going to ask is where That's what I was going to ask is where That's what I was going to ask is where but is there a like if I were a but is there a like if I were a but is there a like if I were a developer and I'm like solo founder developer and I'm like solo founder developer and I'm like solo founder barely scraping by I don't want to read barely scraping by I don't want to read barely scraping by I don't want to read docs, but I but I might be open to docs, but I but I might be open to docs, but I but I might be open to reading like a a summary, you know, or reading like a a summary, you know, or reading like a a summary, you know, or like here are the top five or 10 things. like here are the top five or 10 things. like here are the top five or 10 things. Do you know of a good resource online Do you know of a good resource online Do you know of a good resource online that you could send people to to be that you could send people to to be that you could send people to to be like, "Hey, this is the 80/20 of it." like, "Hey, this is the 80/20 of it." like, "Hey, this is the 80/20 of it." Well, partly it's there there are some Well, partly it's there there are some Well, partly it's there there are some good good good you know webinars, presentations, you know, webinars, presentations, you know, recordings of some of those that are recordings of some of those that are recordings of some of those that are kind of some of that basic piece and we kind of some of that basic piece and we kind of some of that basic piece and we talked about those three kind of big talked about those three kind of big talked about those three kind of big things at the beginning, but the three things at the beginning, but the three things at the beginning, but the three things you could do. So some of it is things you could do. So some of it is things you could do. So some of it is done like starting to take care of those done like starting to take care of those done like starting to take care of those things.

things. things. But also you can go to DQ d e q u e.com But also you can go to DQ d e q u e.com But also you can go to DQ d e q u e.com and they have they are services company, and they have they are services company, and they have they are services company, but they have a learning section. Okay. but they have a learning section. Okay. but they have a learning section. Okay. And they they will go to bigger And they they will go to bigger And they they will go to bigger companies and do kind of training for companies and do kind of training for companies and do kind of training for all their content creators, but they all their content creators, but they all their content creators, but they also have some on-demand courses. And also have some on-demand courses. And also have some on-demand courses. And the on-demand courses are pretty good. the on-demand courses are pretty good. the on-demand courses are pretty good. They will help you get a better sense of They will help you get a better sense of They will help you get a better sense of you know, what is accessibility, how you know, what is accessibility, how you know, what is accessibility, how does it work? And then uh there they does it work? And then uh there they does it work? And then uh there they offer some of those training pieces for offer some of those training pieces for offer some of those training pieces for folks that are um getting ready to take folks that are um getting ready to take folks that are um getting ready to take the exam, but they can be very helpful the exam, but they can be very helpful the exam, but they can be very helpful for folks that are for folks that are for folks that are um you know, just wanting to get their um you know, just wanting to get their um you know, just wanting to get their feet wet a little deeper in terms of the feet wet a little deeper in terms of the feet wet a little deeper in terms of the development pieces of that. Um you know, development pieces of that. Um you know, development pieces of that. Um you know, another thing that you can do is uh and another thing that you can do is uh and another thing that you can do is uh and this is when you have a little little this is when you have a little little this is when you have a little little more revenue, right? When you have some more revenue, right? When you have some more revenue, right? When you have some money to spend on it. And that is you money to spend on it. And that is you money to spend on it. And that is you can get what's called an audit. can get what's called an audit. can get what's called an audit. And so an accessibility audit, if you're And so an accessibility audit, if you're And so an accessibility audit, if you're going to have them do every single URL going to have them do every single URL going to have them do every single URL of your website or every single view of of your website or every single view of of your website or every single view of your app, that can get super expensive.

your app, that can get super expensive. your app, that can get super expensive. And so typically what you see is And so typically what you see is And so typically what you see is something that's called a sampling something that's called a sampling something that's called a sampling audit. So you're going to look you're audit. So you're going to look you're audit. So you're going to look you're often able to get often able to get often able to get 10 or 15 or 20 views audited and you can 10 or 15 or 20 views audited and you can 10 or 15 or 20 views audited and you can extrapolate from there. You know that if extrapolate from there. You know that if extrapolate from there. You know that if it has a this particular layout and this it has a this particular layout and this it has a this particular layout and this format has a problem, then it's all the format has a problem, then it's all the format has a problem, then it's all the way all of those type are going to have way all of those type are going to have way all of those type are going to have a problem. Right. Right. So that's a way a problem. Right. Right. So that's a way a problem. Right. Right. So that's a way to get some feedback. And and an audit to get some feedback. And and an audit to get some feedback. And and an audit should not just include some automated should not just include some automated should not just include some automated testing, but it should have some human testing, but it should have some human testing, but it should have some human testing by trained developers and or testing by trained developers and or testing by trained developers and or even people with disabilities. And it's even people with disabilities. And it's even people with disabilities. And it's going to give you an exhaustive report going to give you an exhaustive report going to give you an exhaustive report of what was checked and what you need, of what was checked and what you need, of what was checked and what you need, you know, what are the violations and you know, what are the violations and you know, what are the violations and what do you need to fix? And the best what do you need to fix? And the best what do you need to fix? And the best reports are the ones that are going to reports are the ones that are going to reports are the ones that are going to give you kind of just some give you kind of just some give you kind of just some also in terms of kind of almost also in terms of kind of almost also in terms of kind of almost consultation and advice. You should work consultation and advice. You should work consultation and advice. You should work on this first. This is the most on this first. This is the most on this first. This is the most important problem. important problem. important problem. These other things need to be taken care These other things need to be taken care These other things need to be taken care of. These things can be done without by of. These things can be done without by of. These things can be done without by someone without technical experience. someone without technical experience. someone without technical experience. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, that's kind of nice. Would you How Yeah, that's kind of nice. Would you How Yeah, that's kind of nice. Would you How comfortable would you feel if we pulled comfortable would you feel if we pulled comfortable would you feel if we pulled up the MicroConf website and you just up the MicroConf website and you just up the MicroConf website and you just taking a peek at it and saying, "Ooh, taking a peek at it and saying, "Ooh, taking a peek at it and saying, "Ooh, here's where you're doing well, here's here's where you're doing well, here's here's where you're doing well, here's where you're not." We're on Squarespace, where you're not." We're on Squarespace, where you're not." We're on Squarespace, so we are limited in like our page speed so we are limited in like our page speed so we are limited in like our page speed is not great and there's just no way is not great and there's just no way is not great and there's just no way around it with Squarespace, but I'm sure around it with Squarespace, but I'm sure around it with Squarespace, but I'm sure that there there have to be some kind of that there there have to be some kind of that there there have to be some kind of low-hanging fruit. Maybe some things low-hanging fruit. Maybe some things low-hanging fruit. Maybe some things we're doing well and things we're not we're doing well and things we're not we're doing well and things we're not doing well.

doing well. doing well. Yeah, can I share my screen? Yeah, can I share my screen? Yeah, can I share my screen? I don't know. Yeah, there's a share I don't know. Yeah, there's a share I don't know. Yeah, there's a share button. button. button. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Sharing tubes. Well, it says two Sharing tubes. Well, it says two Sharing tubes. Well, it says two monitors but I don't do that. monitors but I don't do that. monitors but I don't do that. Share screen. Okay. Cuz you need to Share screen. Okay. Cuz you need to Share screen. Okay. Cuz you need to actually be able to hover over, right? actually be able to hover over, right? actually be able to hover over, right? And see that. micro And see that. micro And see that. micro con So producer Xander, if you can I con So producer Xander, if you can I con So producer Xander, if you can I don't know if you have her screen or don't know if you have her screen or don't know if you have her screen or Oops. Oops. Oops. Isn't it microconf.com? Yes. And then Isn't it microconf.com? Yes. And then Isn't it microconf.com? Yes. And then I'll work. micro conf I'll work. micro conf I'll work. micro conf dot com dot com dot com Okay. Okay. Okay. You see my screen? You see my screen? You see my screen? It's not showing up as a shared screen, It's not showing up as a shared screen, It's not showing up as a shared screen, producer Xander says. So maybe he it producer Xander says. So maybe he it producer Xander says. So maybe he it looks like he has looks like he has looks like he has uh Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hang on. There uh Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hang on. There uh Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hang on. There we go. we go. we go. Share. Share. Share. Now you got it? Tada! Looks great. Okay. Um there is a Tada! Looks great. Okay. Um there is a um um um a uh a Chrome extension for called uh a uh a Chrome extension for called uh a uh a Chrome extension for called uh for Wave. So wave.webaim.org Mhm. is a uh it gives one of these Mhm. is a uh it gives one of these automated accessibility tools. So this automated accessibility tools. So this automated accessibility tools. So this is an automated tester, is an automated tester, is an automated tester, right? And so it comes up and the thing right? And so it comes up and the thing right? And so it comes up and the thing to know about these automated testers is to know about these automated testers is to know about these automated testers is A, they only get 30% but B, sometimes A, they only get 30% but B, sometimes A, they only get 30% but B, sometimes there are false positives and false there are false positives and false there are false positives and false negatives. Sure.

negatives. Sure. negatives. Sure. So um so you're you're looking at that So um so you're you're looking at that So um so you're you're looking at that and so the big thing when we're looking and so the big thing when we're looking and so the big thing when we're looking right away is some contrast pieces, right away is some contrast pieces, right away is some contrast pieces, right? So uh the the white on the yellow right? So uh the the white on the yellow right? So uh the the white on the yellow doesn't meet contrast doesn't meet contrast doesn't meet contrast um um um ratios. Like you're looking at the ratio ratios. Like you're looking at the ratio ratios. Like you're looking at the ratio between the the the yellow goldenrod between the the the yellow goldenrod between the the the yellow goldenrod background and the white font and it background and the white font and it background and the white font and it doesn't meet the minimum ratios. doesn't meet the minimum ratios. doesn't meet the minimum ratios. to 1. What should the ratio be minimum? to 1. What should the ratio be minimum? to 1. What should the ratio be minimum? Right? You know, can you make it Oops, Right? You know, can you make it Oops, Right? You know, can you make it Oops, that's lighter. Right? Can you that's lighter. Right? Can you that's lighter. Right? Can you It's It's supposed It depends on the It's It's supposed It depends on the It's It's supposed It depends on the size of the text down here, right? You size of the text down here, right? You size of the text down here, right? You know, so know, so know, so Right? So you could get it could get Right? So you could get it could get Right? So you could get it could get darker. But you know, you got to You'll darker. But you know, you got to You'll darker. But you know, you got to You'll have to play with it, right? In terms of have to play with it, right? In terms of have to play with it, right? In terms of what the design piece but you just know what the design piece but you just know what the design piece but you just know that that's not. And exactly, and this that that's not. And exactly, and this that that's not. And exactly, and this is probably not Yeah. uh this whatever is probably not Yeah. uh this whatever is probably not Yeah. uh this whatever this is up here. this is up here. this is up here. Yeah. Well, that's Yeah, maybe it's only Yeah. Well, that's Yeah, maybe it's only Yeah. Well, that's Yeah, maybe it's only the golden rod. Yeah. Yeah. Looks like it's mostly just that golden Looks like it's mostly just that golden Looks like it's mostly just that golden rod on the white. rod on the white. rod on the white. Nice. Nice. Nice. So, you might switch that to black and So, you might switch that to black and So, you might switch that to black and it might be fine because you can see it might be fine because you can see it might be fine because you can see down here this is okay or the dark gray, down here this is okay or the dark gray, down here this is okay or the dark gray, right? You know, you can see that that's right? You know, you can see that that's right? You know, you can see that that's okay. So, maybe you just want to instead okay. So, maybe you just want to instead okay. So, maybe you just want to instead of white on things you just want the of white on things you just want the of white on things you just want the black. That would be quick fix.

black. That would be quick fix. black. That would be quick fix. Right? And so then also it'll help you Right? And so then also it'll help you Right? And so then also it'll help you look at your structure. Um look at your structure. Um look at your structure. Um you know, um you know, um you know, um right away you got one H1 Well, you got right away you got one H1 Well, you got right away you got one H1 Well, you got two H1s it looks like. So, you want one two H1s it looks like. So, you want one two H1s it looks like. So, you want one and only one H1 on the page. That's the and only one H1 on the page. That's the and only one H1 on the page. That's the page title. In in a screen reader. page title. In in a screen reader. page title. In in a screen reader. Right? And then you want to everything Right? And then you want to everything Right? And then you want to everything under that. So, maybe this gets bumped under that. So, maybe this gets bumped under that. So, maybe this gets bumped to an H2 and all of these to H3s, right? to an H2 and all of these to H3s, right? to an H2 and all of these to H3s, right? Um Um Um and some missing alt text on images. and some missing alt text on images. and some missing alt text on images. Um the contrast, suspicious alt text. I Um the contrast, suspicious alt text. I Um the contrast, suspicious alt text. I don't know what that is. don't know what that is. don't know what that is. That's funny. That's funny. That's funny. But uh I'm I'm not sure what that means, But uh I'm I'm not sure what that means, But uh I'm I'm not sure what that means, but but but um um um anyway, then you got some you know, some anyway, then you got some you know, some anyway, then you got some you know, some checks, you got some things that are checks, you got some things that are checks, you got some things that are working well here. Some things are working well here. Some things are working well here. Some things are Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the designers who did this Yeah, I mean the designers who did this Yeah, I mean the designers who did this are pretty they're pretty sharp and they are pretty they're pretty sharp and they are pretty they're pretty sharp and they are accessibility aware, but I you know, are accessibility aware, but I you know, are accessibility aware, but I you know, it maybe wasn't the like you said, no no it maybe wasn't the like you said, no no it maybe wasn't the like you said, no no one's 100% right. Yeah, exactly. one's 100% right. Yeah, exactly. one's 100% right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, Exactly. So, Exactly. So, That's cool. Um awesome. Well, yeah. That's cool. Um awesome. Well, yeah. That's cool. Um awesome. Well, yeah. Thanks. Thanks for Thanks for running Thanks. Thanks for Thanks for running Thanks. Thanks for Thanks for running through that and thanks for having me. through that and thanks for having me. through that and thanks for having me. being willing to do that cuz that's kind being willing to do that cuz that's kind being willing to do that cuz that's kind of like, you know, it's kind of a of like, you know, it's kind of a of like, you know, it's kind of a vulnerability, right?

vulnerability, right? vulnerability, right? Oh, totally. Cuz it could be a Oh, totally. Cuz it could be a Oh, totally. Cuz it could be a unmitigated disaster, but I had I had unmitigated disaster, but I had I had unmitigated disaster, but I had I had confidence that we were at least, you confidence that we were at least, you confidence that we were at least, you know, know, know, we have some something in place to to do we have some something in place to to do we have some something in place to to do it. So, if if folks want to keep up with it. So, if if folks want to keep up with it. So, if if folks want to keep up with you, you are Bet Hannon on Twitter, b e you, you are Bet Hannon on Twitter, b e you, you are Bet Hannon on Twitter, b e t h a n n o n. And your website URL is t h a n n o n. And your website URL is t h a n n o n. And your website URL is b h m biz sites. b h m biz sites. b h m biz sites. b h m biz sites.com. dot b h m biz sites.com. dot b h m biz sites.com. dot Yep. Yep. Yep. Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me Awesome. Thanks so much for joining me today, Beth. today, Beth. today, Beth. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. me. me. All right. As we roll out, um All right. As we roll out, um All right. As we roll out, um thank you to Hey and Stripe. They're our thank you to Hey and Stripe. They're our thank you to Hey and Stripe. They're our headline partners this year and next headline partners this year and next headline partners this year and next year. If you're watching this on year. If you're watching this on year. If you're watching this on YouTube, please, seriously, like and YouTube, please, seriously, like and YouTube, please, seriously, like and subscribe. subscribe. subscribe. It's cool. You This video was was good. It's cool. You This video was was good. It's cool. You This video was was good. You can like it and you can subscribe. You can like it and you can subscribe. You can like it and you can subscribe. It's good to see you this week. I will It's good to see you this week. I will It's good to see you this week. I will see you again next week for another see you again next week for another see you again next week for another amazing episode. amazing episode. amazing episode. Bye.