Making Your First Hire, Building and Growing Your Remote Team with Natalie Luneva – MicroConf On Air

and we're live and we're live welcome to this week's episode of welcome to this week's episode of welcome to this week's episode of microcomp on air i'm your host rob microcomp on air i'm your host rob microcomp on air i'm your host rob walling walling walling every wednesday we live stream for about every wednesday we live stream for about every wednesday we live stream for about 30 minutes uncover topics related to 30 minutes uncover topics related to 30 minutes uncover topics related to building and growing ambitious building and growing ambitious building and growing ambitious sas startups that don't require us to go sas startups that don't require us to go sas startups that don't require us to go require require require us to go crazy work 80 hour weeks raise us to go crazy work 80 hour weeks raise us to go crazy work 80 hour weeks raise buckets of money buckets of money buckets of money or sacrifice our freedom purpose or or sacrifice our freedom purpose or or sacrifice our freedom purpose or relationships relationships relationships and that's what uh microconf it's a and that's what uh microconf it's a and that's what uh microconf it's a microcomp on air that's what startups microcomp on air that's what startups microcomp on air that's what startups for the rest of us for the rest of us for the rest of us it's a tiny seed that's what we're all it's a tiny seed that's what we're all it's a tiny seed that's what we're all about is being ambitious about is being ambitious about is being ambitious building interesting things that maybe building interesting things that maybe building interesting things that maybe not change that they don't change the not change that they don't change the not change that they don't change the whole world but they might change our whole world but they might change our whole world but they might change our little corner of it little corner of it little corner of it and uh doing it while maintaining and uh doing it while maintaining and uh doing it while maintaining healthy relationships and healthy relationships and healthy relationships and and trying to stay sane so thanks so and trying to stay sane so thanks so and trying to stay sane so thanks so much for joining me again this week much for joining me again this week much for joining me again this week this week i have a interesting guest this week i have a interesting guest this week i have a interesting guest with an interesting topic with an interesting topic with an interesting topic talking about making your first hire talking about making your first hire talking about making your first hire building and growing remote building and growing remote building and growing remote sas teams and i'm going to start sas teams and i'm going to start sas teams and i'm going to start introducing my guest here introducing my guest here introducing my guest here she is her name is natalie luniva she is her name is natalie luniva she is her name is natalie luniva you may have run across her on the you may have run across her on the you may have run across her on the interwebs but she runs the interwebs but she runs the interwebs but she runs the sas boss podcast and she is married to sas boss podcast and she is married to sas boss podcast and she is married to the founder of the founder of the founder of deposit fix and she actually works so deposit fix and she actually works so deposit fix and she actually works so she you know contributes she you know contributes she you know contributes quite a bit helping her husband scale quite a bit helping her husband scale quite a bit helping her husband scale and market and market and market and manage the team of depositfix and manage the team of depositfix and manage the team of depositfix depositfix.com depositfix.com depositfix.com is accept stripe and paypal using is accept stripe and paypal using is accept stripe and paypal using hubspot forms hubspot forms hubspot forms um oh yeah producer xander just said my um oh yeah producer xander just said my um oh yeah producer xander just said my camera's a little jacked sorry about camera's a little jacked sorry about camera's a little jacked sorry about that that that i need to zoom in oh yeah that's just

i need to zoom in oh yeah that's just i need to zoom in oh yeah that's just what you want to see what you want to see what you want to see get up close and personal thanks ander get up close and personal thanks ander get up close and personal thanks ander for for that so uh for for that so uh for for that so uh natalie luniva is going to be joining me natalie luniva is going to be joining me natalie luniva is going to be joining me here in just a moment here in just a moment here in just a moment um she's a growth and team performance um she's a growth and team performance um she's a growth and team performance coach for sas founders coach for sas founders coach for sas founders she draws on more than 10 years of she draws on more than 10 years of she draws on more than 10 years of marketing and management experience marketing and management experience marketing and management experience and she's you know as i said she's and she's you know as i said she's and she's you know as i said she's married to a bootstrap sas founder married to a bootstrap sas founder married to a bootstrap sas founder natalie helps sas companies identify and natalie helps sas companies identify and natalie helps sas companies identify and implement high roi implement high roi implement high roi opportunities and figure out how to opportunities and figure out how to opportunities and figure out how to scale scale scale so natalie luneva.com if you want to so natalie luneva.com if you want to so natalie luneva.com if you want to check out check out check out all about her or the sas boss podcast all about her or the sas boss podcast all about her or the sas boss podcast and i'd like to welcome her to the show and i'd like to welcome her to the show and i'd like to welcome her to the show natalie thanks so much for joining me natalie thanks so much for joining me natalie thanks so much for joining me today hi everyone great to be here today hi everyone great to be here today hi everyone great to be here natalie is in microconf connect if you natalie is in microconf connect if you natalie is in microconf connect if you ever wanted to you know dm or or connect ever wanted to you know dm or or connect ever wanted to you know dm or or connect with her with her with her obviously if you have questions for obviously if you have questions for obviously if you have questions for either of us either of us either of us um we are in microcomp um we are in microcomp um we are in microcomp on air the microcomponent channel of on air the microcomponent channel of on air the microcomponent channel of microconf connect microconf connect microconf connect and uh oh there's a question that has and uh oh there's a question that has and uh oh there's a question that has already come through uh love it already come through uh love it already come through uh love it but let me start natalie by asking you but let me start natalie by asking you but let me start natalie by asking you um um um setting it up you know you obviously setting it up you know you obviously setting it up you know you obviously have a lot of experience managing have a lot of experience managing have a lot of experience managing and marketing and hiring for sas and marketing and hiring for sas and marketing and hiring for sas companies a lot of companies a lot of companies a lot of bootstrapped experience it seems um i bootstrapped experience it seems um i bootstrapped experience it seems um i get this question a lot and i'm curious get this question a lot and i'm curious get this question a lot and i'm curious to hear your take on it to hear your take on it to hear your take on it when do you feel is the right time to when do you feel is the right time to when do you feel is the right time to make your first hire make your first hire make your first hire as a let's say a mostly bootstrapped or as a let's say a mostly bootstrapped or as a let's say a mostly bootstrapped or mostly bootstrap sas founder mostly bootstrap sas founder mostly bootstrap sas founder um i think when you um i think when you um i think when you start feeling like you're doing too much start feeling like you're doing too much start feeling like you're doing too much and you're switching too much

and you're switching too much and you're switching too much uh and all of this switching back and uh and all of this switching back and uh and all of this switching back and forth is actually draining your energy forth is actually draining your energy forth is actually draining your energy or when you're doing a lot of five to or when you're doing a lot of five to or when you're doing a lot of five to ten dollar uh ten dollar uh ten dollar uh our job that someone else can do this our job that someone else can do this our job that someone else can do this for you you were trying to be the jack for you you were trying to be the jack for you you were trying to be the jack of all trades of all trades of all trades which is actually hindering your growth which is actually hindering your growth which is actually hindering your growth so this is so this is so this is probably the best uh time for you probably the best uh time for you probably the best uh time for you to think about hiring someone to think about hiring someone to think about hiring someone got it and the the follow-up question to got it and the the follow-up question to got it and the the follow-up question to that which i have some thoughts on that which i have some thoughts on that which i have some thoughts on uh is what position should you hire uh is what position should you hire uh is what position should you hire first first first i think absolutely i think different i think absolutely i think different i think absolutely i think different stages stages stages uh require a different uh thinking about uh require a different uh thinking about uh require a different uh thinking about this this this but if it's your brand new first hire but if it's your brand new first hire but if it's your brand new first hire then i would recommend then i would recommend then i would recommend think about more like a generalist think about more like a generalist think about more like a generalist someone who feels someone who feels someone who feels you're as a founder gaps kind of you're as a founder gaps kind of you're as a founder gaps kind of jack-of-all-trades jack-of-all-trades jack-of-all-trades we don't want at this point high-level we don't want at this point high-level we don't want at this point high-level executives executives executives who used to structure because who used to structure because who used to structure because your environment is very unstructured your environment is very unstructured your environment is very unstructured very hectic right very hectic right very hectic right you don't probably have any processes in you don't probably have any processes in you don't probably have any processes in place place place just yet so bringing specialists for just yet so bringing specialists for just yet so bringing specialists for a specific work is a little bit down the a specific work is a little bit down the a specific work is a little bit down the road road road but the first hire is probably but the first hire is probably but the first hire is probably generalist and then think about this generalist and then think about this generalist and then think about this also also also they talk a lot about t-shaped so people they talk a lot about t-shaped so people they talk a lot about t-shaped so people who who who have a very narrow experience in a have a very narrow experience in a have a very narrow experience in a specific subject specific subject specific subject but then they have broad range or but then they have broad range or but then they have broad range or understanding in various areas

understanding in various areas understanding in various areas so this would be something to consider so this would be something to consider so this would be something to consider but then but then but then think about these questions where do you think about these questions where do you think about these questions where do you need need need help now like as soon as possible help now like as soon as possible help now like as soon as possible obviously if you're drowning in support obviously if you're drowning in support obviously if you're drowning in support then this is not the right time to then this is not the right time to then this is not the right time to hire market in person um what are my own hire market in person um what are my own hire market in person um what are my own skills and abilities like if you were skills and abilities like if you were skills and abilities like if you were really good with sales and marketing really good with sales and marketing really good with sales and marketing then this is not the then this is not the then this is not the uh the job that you'd like to hire uh the job that you'd like to hire uh the job that you'd like to hire someone else to do someone else to do someone else to do but also what gives you energy if but also what gives you energy if but also what gives you energy if you are really excited about you know you are really excited about you know you are really excited about you know specific area specific area specific area then do not replace you with someone then do not replace you with someone then do not replace you with someone else doing this else doing this else doing this not yet anyways right that's that's how not yet anyways right that's that's how not yet anyways right that's that's how i think about it too is it's like if i think about it too is it's like if i think about it too is it's like if you're you're you're if you're a founder and your developer if you're a founder and your developer if you're a founder and your developer and you're cranking on the product you and you're cranking on the product you and you're cranking on the product you probably need help with probably need help with probably need help with sales marketing or operations or support sales marketing or operations or support sales marketing or operations or support right but if you are a marketing expert right but if you are a marketing expert right but if you are a marketing expert and you know you you've hired a contract and you know you you've hired a contract and you know you you've hired a contract agency to build the product well maybe agency to build the product well maybe agency to build the product well maybe time to bring somebody in-house to do it time to bring somebody in-house to do it time to bring somebody in-house to do it for me personally the first person i for me personally the first person i for me personally the first person i always hired was support always hired was support always hired was support and that's because you know probably and that's because you know probably and that's because you know probably because i worked on apps that needed you because i worked on apps that needed you because i worked on apps that needed you know had enough email support just know had enough email support just know had enough email support just enough enough enough that it was a pain a pain for me even in that it was a pain a pain for me even in that it was a pain a pain for me even in the early days i would typically do the early days i would typically do the early days i would typically do support for a few months support for a few months support for a few months to kind of do customer development and to kind of do customer development and to kind of do customer development and learn what needed to be built learn what needed to be built learn what needed to be built and learn what the big problems are and and learn what the big problems are and and learn what the big problems are and then i would bring in someone i trusted then i would bring in someone i trusted then i would bring in someone i trusted early on i would hire from scratch like early on i would hire from scratch like early on i would hire from scratch like from odesk right that's now upwork from odesk right that's now upwork from odesk right that's now upwork as i got later i would just pull people as i got later i would just pull people as i got later i would just pull people off of prior projects that i had that i off of prior projects that i had that i off of prior projects that i had that i already trusted and could just train already trusted and could just train already trusted and could just train them up them up them up so email support i think is something

so email support i think is something so email support i think is something that a lot of founders do that a lot of founders do that a lot of founders do for too long and they usually justify it for too long and they usually justify it for too long and they usually justify it with one of two with one of two with one of two explanations number one is oh it doesn't explanations number one is oh it doesn't explanations number one is oh it doesn't take me that long it's just you know take me that long it's just you know take me that long it's just you know half an hour a day or something like half an hour a day or something like half an hour a day or something like that and number two is well i'm still that and number two is well i'm still that and number two is well i'm still learning so much from my customers learning so much from my customers learning so much from my customers that i want to be really close to it and that i want to be really close to it and that i want to be really close to it and i don't want to hire someone who's not i don't want to hire someone who's not i don't want to hire someone who's not very good at it very good at it very good at it and both of those i think are are and both of those i think are are and both of those i think are are justifications justifications justifications to hang on the third one the third one to hang on the third one the third one to hang on the third one the third one that that that uh was for us at least our product is uh was for us at least our product is uh was for us at least our product is very technical so my husband is like very technical so my husband is like very technical so my husband is like everyone says you know everyone says you know everyone says you know only i am the person who can respond to only i am the person who can respond to only i am the person who can respond to all of those all of those all of those technical questions you can find someone technical questions you can find someone technical questions you can find someone who's good enough to support who's good enough to support who's good enough to support developers working on a technical developers working on a technical developers working on a technical product you can i've done it product you can i've done it product you can i've done it it wasn't the easiest thing but you it wasn't the easiest thing but you it wasn't the easiest thing but you absolutely can and they're not super absolutely can and they're not super absolutely can and they're not super expensive you do not need to find a expensive you do not need to find a expensive you do not need to find a developer developer developer you need to find someone who is willing you need to find someone who is willing you need to find someone who is willing to learn enough code to learn enough code to learn enough code that they can translate a few things and that they can translate a few things and that they can translate a few things and figure some stuff out and i've had figure some stuff out and i've had figure some stuff out and i've had multiple multiple multiple folks that i've found over the years who folks that i've found over the years who folks that i've found over the years who are able to who are able to do that are able to who are able to do that are able to who are able to do that we um we have a an audience question or we um we have a an audience question or we um we have a an audience question or a listener question a listener question a listener question and uh it's from tremaine tyler and uh it's from tremaine tyler and uh it's from tremaine tyler and i'm going to jump him in here even and i'm going to jump him in here even and i'm going to jump him in here even though you know it's a little bit of a though you know it's a little bit of a though you know it's a little bit of a non-sequitur to what we're currently non-sequitur to what we're currently non-sequitur to what we're currently talking about but i love the listener talking about but i love the listener talking about but i love the listener questions because they're questions because they're questions because they're it's live right and that's the point of it's live right and that's the point of it's live right and that's the point of doing a live broadcast instead of just doing a live broadcast instead of just doing a live broadcast instead of just recording a a podcast recording a a podcast recording a a podcast um is that we can have these kinds of um is that we can have these kinds of um is that we can have these kinds of things so he throws it out and i think things so he throws it out and i think things so he throws it out and i think you and i should both weigh in on this you and i should both weigh in on this you and i should both weigh in on this natalie natalie natalie he says uh tremaine tyler he says my he says uh tremaine tyler he says my he says uh tremaine tyler he says my sass has been stuck at 180 sass has been stuck at 180 sass has been stuck at 180 000 a year for almost three years we got 000 a year for almost three years we got 000 a year for almost three years we got there in one in one year

there in one in one year there in one in one year so in 12 months they got 180 k arr and so in 12 months they got 180 k arr and so in 12 months they got 180 k arr and then it stopped then it stopped then it stopped what are some common factors you find in what are some common factors you find in what are some common factors you find in entrepreneurs who plateau like this entrepreneurs who plateau like this entrepreneurs who plateau like this and i would actually reshape that and i would actually reshape that and i would actually reshape that question i don't think it's the question i don't think it's the question i don't think it's the entrepreneur i think it's the entrepreneur i think it's the entrepreneur i think it's the probably the product or the market probably the product or the market probably the product or the market itself so um itself so um itself so um natalie do you wanna you have any natalie do you wanna you have any natalie do you wanna you have any thoughts on on stuff when you see a thoughts on on stuff when you see a thoughts on on stuff when you see a plateau and whether it's plateauing at plateau and whether it's plateauing at plateau and whether it's plateauing at this 15k this 15k this 15k a month right so what do you see a a month right so what do you see a a month right so what do you see a plateauing at 15k or whether you see it plateauing at 15k or whether you see it plateauing at 15k or whether you see it at 10k or 30k there do tend to be some at 10k or 30k there do tend to be some at 10k or 30k there do tend to be some commonalities i i think we've seen so commonalities i i think we've seen so commonalities i i think we've seen so but there are also so many reasons that but there are also so many reasons that but there are also so many reasons that that can happen the first step in that can happen the first step in that can happen the first step in untangling this problem would be to untangling this problem would be to untangling this problem would be to probably look at your metrics and see probably look at your metrics and see probably look at your metrics and see where the lowest handed fruit where the lowest handed fruit where the lowest handed fruit is i have a template that i use from is i have a template that i use from is i have a template that i use from ban marae the sas cfo also known as the ban marae the sas cfo also known as the ban marae the sas cfo also known as the sas cfo sas cfo sas cfo and so that template is absolutely and so that template is absolutely and so that template is absolutely awesome where you can see so many awesome where you can see so many awesome where you can see so many metrics in one metrics in one metrics in one dashboard beginning from how much dashboard beginning from how much dashboard beginning from how much traffic you have all the end to the very traffic you have all the end to the very traffic you have all the end to the very uh you know revenue and then everything uh you know revenue and then everything uh you know revenue and then everything in between instead of in between instead of in between instead of looking at all of those metrics in looking at all of those metrics in looking at all of those metrics in different dashboards now this is different dashboards now this is different dashboards now this is why i prefer to have this in a why i prefer to have this in a why i prefer to have this in a spreadsheet it takes a little bit of spreadsheet it takes a little bit of spreadsheet it takes a little bit of time for you to fill it out but i highly time for you to fill it out but i highly time for you to fill it out but i highly recommend you start doing that um and so recommend you start doing that um and so recommend you start doing that um and so once you look at those metrics you're once you look at those metrics you're once you look at those metrics you're probably going to probably going to probably going to find some areas of opportunity to find some areas of opportunity to find some areas of opportunity to low-hanging fruit maybe churn or low-hanging fruit maybe churn or low-hanging fruit maybe churn or something that's killing you or something that's killing you or something that's killing you or i don't know maybe not enough traffic or i don't know maybe not enough traffic or i don't know maybe not enough traffic or like traffic is not growing like traffic is not growing like traffic is not growing enough or maybe conversion from free to enough or maybe conversion from free to enough or maybe conversion from free to paid paid paid is declining um so what's really the is declining um so what's really the is declining um so what's really the reason reason reason and then if you find that top of funnel

and then if you find that top of funnel and then if you find that top of funnel is not growing is not growing is not growing then this is the reason to think about then this is the reason to think about then this is the reason to think about okay what is the next step okay what is the next step okay what is the next step who who do we need to bring what health who who do we need to bring what health who who do we need to bring what health what special specialist we need to bring what special specialist we need to bring what special specialist we need to bring on board to help us with this on board to help us with this on board to help us with this additional push yep i like that additional push yep i like that additional push yep i like that um there's a talk by craig hewitt from um there's a talk by craig hewitt from um there's a talk by craig hewitt from microconf europe last year microconf europe last year microconf europe last year it's on our youtube channel youtube.com it's on our youtube channel youtube.com it's on our youtube channel youtube.com microconf microconf microconf and it's something about i forget what and it's something about i forget what and it's something about i forget what the title is of course remember off top the title is of course remember off top the title is of course remember off top of my head but something about your of my head but something about your of my head but something about your metrics and your numbers metrics and your numbers metrics and your numbers and how to spot bottlenecks and that's and how to spot bottlenecks and that's and how to spot bottlenecks and that's really what that's where i'd start with really what that's where i'd start with really what that's where i'd start with this just like natalie was saying this just like natalie was saying this just like natalie was saying you know you get visitor to trial trial you know you get visitor to trial trial you know you get visitor to trial trial to paid to paid to paid paid to sticking around longer than 60 paid to sticking around longer than 60 paid to sticking around longer than 60 days what's your turn past that days what's your turn past that days what's your turn past that and if all of those are within the good and if all of those are within the good and if all of those are within the good rules of thumb my guess is one of them rules of thumb my guess is one of them rules of thumb my guess is one of them is not but if is not but if is not but if so one of them's out of whack then so one of them's out of whack then so one of them's out of whack then you've got to focus on that if they're you've got to focus on that if they're you've got to focus on that if they're all within the good rules of thumb then all within the good rules of thumb then all within the good rules of thumb then you need more leads you need more leads you need more leads and how do you get more leads well it is and how do you get more leads well it is and how do you get more leads well it is the space even big enough you know if the space even big enough you know if the space even big enough you know if you've started you've started you've started um you know bookkeeping software for uh um you know bookkeeping software for uh um you know bookkeeping software for uh you know for for timber for timber you know for for timber for timber you know for for timber for timber mining companies or mining companies or mining companies or that's not even a thing but you know if that's not even a thing but you know if that's not even a thing but you know if you're in a tiny tiny little niche you're in a tiny tiny little niche you're in a tiny tiny little niche then maybe that's it maybe you own all then maybe that's it maybe you own all then maybe that's it maybe you own all the leads each month and and you need to the leads each month and and you need to the leads each month and and you need to either go to another vertical either go to another vertical either go to another vertical or you need to you know go more or you need to you know go more or you need to you know go more horizontal um my guess is you're not i horizontal um my guess is you're not i horizontal um my guess is you're not i guess is there a hell of a lot more guess is there a hell of a lot more guess is there a hell of a lot more leads that you're leaving on the table leads that you're leaving on the table leads that you're leaving on the table whether through whether through whether through seo content paid ads or something you're seo content paid ads or something you're seo content paid ads or something you're not doing so not doing so not doing so that would be my my top line thinking as that would be my my top line thinking as that would be my my top line thinking as well well well transitioning to another another transitioning to another another transitioning to another another question about hiring natalie

question about hiring natalie question about hiring natalie um what should you have in place um what should you have in place um what should you have in place for smooth team onboard team member for smooth team onboard team member for smooth team onboard team member onboarding let's say you've onboarding let's say you've onboarding let's say you've you're it's just you or it's you and a you're it's just you or it's you and a you're it's just you or it's you and a co-founder right now and you're gonna co-founder right now and you're gonna co-founder right now and you're gonna hire someone and bring on that first or hire someone and bring on that first or hire someone and bring on that first or the second higher the second higher the second higher is there a short list of things that you is there a short list of things that you is there a short list of things that you recommend people have so that new person recommend people have so that new person recommend people have so that new person is onboarded well is onboarded well is onboarded well absolutely just earlier today in my absolutely just earlier today in my absolutely just earlier today in my mastermind group i spoke to a founder mastermind group i spoke to a founder mastermind group i spoke to a founder early stage founder who hired an sdr early stage founder who hired an sdr early stage founder who hired an sdr person person person and so he hired this person on monday and so he hired this person on monday and so he hired this person on monday and then on wednesday he expects the and then on wednesday he expects the and then on wednesday he expects the person to already start making the calls person to already start making the calls person to already start making the calls which is good to have such a short which is good to have such a short which is good to have such a short onboarding process onboarding process onboarding process if you have a very structured onboarding if you have a very structured onboarding if you have a very structured onboarding process process process usually early stage founders do not so usually early stage founders do not so usually early stage founders do not so this is the first step this is the first step this is the first step have an onboarding process that is going have an onboarding process that is going have an onboarding process that is going to be at least few days to be at least few days to be at least few days preferably more like four to five days preferably more like four to five days preferably more like four to five days maybe maybe maybe and so you have a whole structure for and so you have a whole structure for and so you have a whole structure for this day for every day this day for every day this day for every day what you expect this person to do what you expect this person to do what you expect this person to do instead of saying hey go to the website instead of saying hey go to the website instead of saying hey go to the website and check out what we are about and check out what we are about and check out what we are about um you know just take a look at our um you know just take a look at our um you know just take a look at our tickets and see what problems we have tickets and see what problems we have tickets and see what problems we have like this is not enough so the things like this is not enough so the things like this is not enough so the things that i suggest that i suggest that i suggest uh founders have in place is think about uh founders have in place is think about uh founders have in place is think about sops standard operating procedures sops standard operating procedures sops standard operating procedures there are two ways that you can work on there are two ways that you can work on there are two ways that you can work on them early stage founders you probably them early stage founders you probably them early stage founders you probably don't have don't have don't have many things in place so the easiest way many things in place so the easiest way many things in place so the easiest way for you to do that for you to do that for you to do that is while you are doing some of those is while you are doing some of those is while you are doing some of those things things things uh take a screen share uh video of you uh take a screen share uh video of you uh take a screen share uh video of you doing those things explaining why you do

doing those things explaining why you do doing those things explaining why you do this how you do this this how you do this this how you do this what's the step by step so that later what's the step by step so that later what's the step by step so that later you can add it to your sop or you can add it to your sop or you can add it to your sop or you can just you know easier share it you can just you know easier share it you can just you know easier share it with the next person with the next person with the next person or if you already hired someone then or if you already hired someone then or if you already hired someone then while you already explained everything while you already explained everything while you already explained everything to them have this early hire to them have this early hire to them have this early hire put together the sop for you have them put together the sop for you have them put together the sop for you have them write it down write it down write it down and basically tell them hey share like and basically tell them hey share like and basically tell them hey share like explain line by line how do you see explain line by line how do you see explain line by line how do you see you need to do this and then two two you need to do this and then two two you need to do this and then two two benefits here benefits here benefits here you make sure that the person understood you make sure that the person understood you make sure that the person understood everything the way that you wanted to do everything the way that you wanted to do everything the way that you wanted to do to be done and then the second thing is to be done and then the second thing is to be done and then the second thing is you have a writing sop you have a writing sop you have a writing sop so this would be my uh number one number so this would be my uh number one number so this would be my uh number one number two is communication guidelines two is communication guidelines two is communication guidelines i think this is not brought up at all i think this is not brought up at all i think this is not brought up at all but having communication guidelines for but having communication guidelines for but having communication guidelines for example um example um example um if you have let's say four people team if you have let's say four people team if you have let's say four people team if you are talking one to one to someone if you are talking one to one to someone if you are talking one to one to someone and then you know the third person needs and then you know the third person needs and then you know the third person needs to know about this to know about this to know about this then you need to basically duplicate the then you need to basically duplicate the then you need to basically duplicate the same communication and same communication and same communication and you know say everything twice right you know say everything twice right you know say everything twice right if you would have a separate channel a if you would have a separate channel a if you would have a separate channel a dedicated channel for example you're dedicated channel for example you're dedicated channel for example you're trying to onboard like a new enterprise trying to onboard like a new enterprise trying to onboard like a new enterprise client so you create a separate channel client so you create a separate channel client so you create a separate channel where where where everyone who needs to be involved knows everyone who needs to be involved knows everyone who needs to be involved knows that this is the conversation that's that this is the conversation that's that this is the conversation that's happening you don't need to duplicate happening you don't need to duplicate happening you don't need to duplicate this kind of this conversation this kind of this conversation this kind of this conversation and then for example longer messages and then for example longer messages and then for example longer messages need to be sent through email but then need to be sent through email but then need to be sent through email but then shorter shorter shorter can be sent in slack and my pet peeve is

can be sent in slack and my pet peeve is can be sent in slack and my pet peeve is do not expect immediate response because do not expect immediate response because do not expect immediate response because from the founder from the founder from the founder i highly recommend to let your team know i highly recommend to let your team know i highly recommend to let your team know that that that do not expect immediate response from me do not expect immediate response from me do not expect immediate response from me you probably you probably you probably should be working on something else should be working on something else should be working on something else right diving deeper and not just right diving deeper and not just right diving deeper and not just responding to messages just pop responding to messages just pop responding to messages just pop up on slack and then number three up on slack and then number three up on slack and then number three is company values when we put together is company values when we put together is company values when we put together our values and you probably think that our values and you probably think that our values and you probably think that it's too much like we're such a small it's too much like we're such a small it's too much like we're such a small company company company but when we've put together our values but when we've put together our values but when we've put together our values it becomes it becomes it becomes so clear to the new person that we are so clear to the new person that we are so clear to the new person that we are hiring the things to consider adding to hiring the things to consider adding to hiring the things to consider adding to this this this list of your values is for example we list of your values is for example we list of your values is for example we have it in our values we don't want to have it in our values we don't want to have it in our values we don't want to push push push sell to a client if deposit fix is not sell to a client if deposit fix is not sell to a client if deposit fix is not the right fit the right fit the right fit for them if our sas is not the right fit for them if our sas is not the right fit for them if our sas is not the right fit this this this sets the tone right and so many people sets the tone right and so many people sets the tone right and so many people that join our team that join our team that join our team say that i love it because in previous say that i love it because in previous say that i love it because in previous company this was not the case company this was not the case company this was not the case um like we have many other things but um like we have many other things but um like we have many other things but just think about all the things that you just think about all the things that you just think about all the things that you want your want your want your person to know about you so that in the person to know about you so that in the person to know about you so that in the future future future uh maybe productivity is really uh maybe productivity is really uh maybe productivity is really important for you so you put it in your important for you so you put it in your important for you so you put it in your values values values and then in the future when person is and then in the future when person is and then in the future when person is underperforming or you think something underperforming or you think something underperforming or you think something can be improved can be improved can be improved you don't say hey uh you know you're you don't say hey uh you know you're you don't say hey uh you know you're doing really poorly here but you say hey doing really poorly here but you say hey doing really poorly here but you say hey our values are this we would really want our values are this we would really want our values are this we would really want you to align to our values so you don't you to align to our values so you don't you to align to our values so you don't talk directly and talk directly and talk directly and you don't put down the person directly you don't put down the person directly you don't put down the person directly but you kind of say hey but you kind of say hey but you kind of say hey here are our values let's work together

here are our values let's work together here are our values let's work together to to to you know stay on that level i mean you know stay on that level i mean you know stay on that level i mean that's an interesting question of values that's an interesting question of values that's an interesting question of values i mean i think the i mean i think the i mean i think the question i get a lot is you know what question i get a lot is you know what question i get a lot is you know what traits what trader traits should we be traits what trader traits should we be traits what trader traits should we be looking for when looking for when looking for when interviewing people um obviously there's interviewing people um obviously there's interviewing people um obviously there's technical competence technical competence technical competence but there's there's kind of the values but there's there's kind of the values but there's there's kind of the values align what what is what is your take on align what what is what is your take on align what what is what is your take on that that that before i say that before we even hire before i say that before we even hire before i say that before we even hire someone someone someone um i usually say i can't work with you um i usually say i can't work with you um i usually say i can't work with you before i work with you before i work with you before i work with you so i hire if i consider hiring someone so i hire if i consider hiring someone so i hire if i consider hiring someone full time or like for long term full time or like for long term full time or like for long term i usually assign like a smaller project i usually assign like a smaller project i usually assign like a smaller project like maybe a couple of days or one week like maybe a couple of days or one week like maybe a couple of days or one week or or or maybe a fixed price project so that i maybe a fixed price project so that i maybe a fixed price project so that i see how they work see how they work see how they work what's their response rate what's their what's their response rate what's their what's their response rate what's their uh uh uh are they responsible do they deliver if are they responsible do they deliver if are they responsible do they deliver if they say that they're gonna get back to they say that they're gonna get back to they say that they're gonna get back to you on one stage do they actually get you on one stage do they actually get you on one stage do they actually get back to you on wednesday so you get to back to you on wednesday so you get to back to you on wednesday so you get to work with them work with them work with them and i think this is an important and i think this is an important and i think this is an important impression impression impression uh next uh i'm looking for people that uh next uh i'm looking for people that uh next uh i'm looking for people that take initiative take initiative take initiative because usually i know that founders because usually i know that founders because usually i know that founders they don't want hand holding right so they don't want hand holding right so they don't want hand holding right so people need to people need to people need to be initiative and then i say that be initiative and then i say that be initiative and then i say that solution people not problem people solution people not problem people solution people not problem people and by the way this is something that and by the way this is something that and by the way this is something that you can train your existing people as you can train your existing people as you can train your existing people as well if people come to you with a well if people come to you with a well if people come to you with a problem problem problem and not bring solution and they say hey and not bring solution and they say hey and not bring solution and they say hey we have this problem how can i fix it we have this problem how can i fix it we have this problem how can i fix it and they come to you with the problem and they come to you with the problem and they come to you with the problem oftentimes i find that founder is the oftentimes i find that founder is the oftentimes i find that founder is the person who actually trained person who actually trained person who actually trained their people to behave this way so what their people to behave this way so what their people to behave this way so what you'd like to do is you'd like to do is you'd like to do is okay you have this problem have you

okay you have this problem have you okay you have this problem have you thought about the solution what would be thought about the solution what would be thought about the solution what would be our options to fix the problem our options to fix the problem our options to fix the problem so ideally i would like to have this so ideally i would like to have this so ideally i would like to have this person already be a solution person and person already be a solution person and person already be a solution person and not the problem person not the problem person not the problem person but then last thing i would say is hire but then last thing i would say is hire but then last thing i would say is hire self-disciplined people who don't need self-disciplined people who don't need self-disciplined people who don't need to be managed to be managed to be managed but you set up the system and so people but you set up the system and so people but you set up the system and so people need they need need they need need they need people know that they need to work in people know that they need to work in people know that they need to work in the system and so you manage the system the system and so you manage the system the system and so you manage the system and not the people oh very cool yeah i'm actually i'm oh very cool yeah i'm actually i'm helping out a couple tiny seed founders helping out a couple tiny seed founders helping out a couple tiny seed founders right now i've done right now i've done right now i've done i mean geez in the 20 years since i've i mean geez in the 20 years since i've i mean geez in the 20 years since i've been been been uh working professionally i probably uh working professionally i probably uh working professionally i probably started hiring started hiring started hiring within six to 12 months after the you within six to 12 months after the you within six to 12 months after the you know writing code they started bringing know writing code they started bringing know writing code they started bringing me on interviews me on interviews me on interviews i've literally done hundreds and i've literally done hundreds and i've literally done hundreds and hundreds of interviews including like hundreds of interviews including like hundreds of interviews including like phone screenings and phone screenings and phone screenings and in person um and you know because you in person um and you know because you in person um and you know because you oftentimes you do many interviews to oftentimes you do many interviews to oftentimes you do many interviews to to get a few people through the door um to get a few people through the door um to get a few people through the door um and that that does align with my and that that does align with my and that that does align with my experience i think there's experience i think there's experience i think there's there's always like technical competence there's always like technical competence there's always like technical competence in a role in a role in a role and then there's often the untan and then there's often the untan and then there's often the untan intangibles that are pretty hard to intangibles that are pretty hard to intangibles that are pretty hard to measure measure measure um there is that fit i like the idea of um there is that fit i like the idea of um there is that fit i like the idea of uh uh uh solution people rather than problem solution people rather than problem solution people rather than problem people i think that's a good way to put people i think that's a good way to put people i think that's a good way to put it is like it is like it is like do they can you find people that take do they can you find people that take do they can you find people that take responsibility responsibility responsibility and that um that actually make the and that um that actually make the and that um that actually make the business better business better business better you know and that when things go wrong you know and that when things go wrong you know and that when things go wrong they say well either they say well either they say well either i failed or we failed now let's make it i failed or we failed now let's make it i failed or we failed now let's make it better and make sure that doesn't happen better and make sure that doesn't happen better and make sure that doesn't happen again again again versus wow someone else failed who's to versus wow someone else failed who's to versus wow someone else failed who's to blame blame blame you know there's always a big component

you know there's always a big component you know there's always a big component of that i think with with successful of that i think with with successful of that i think with with successful people people people there's another there's a question from there's another there's a question from there's another there's a question from pablo he says any tips on what to do and pablo he says any tips on what to do and pablo he says any tips on what to do and not not not do during the interview process for a do during the interview process for a do during the interview process for a first employee first employee first employee i guess that is some overlap with the i guess that is some overlap with the i guess that is some overlap with the prior question you have any other prior question you have any other prior question you have any other thoughts though thoughts though thoughts though yes yes yes yes as the founder yes yes yes yes as the founder yes yes yes yes as the founder have a spreadsheet so when you interview have a spreadsheet so when you interview have a spreadsheet so when you interview multiple people just like you said rob multiple people just like you said rob multiple people just like you said rob uh you can either forget some responses uh you can either forget some responses uh you can either forget some responses or some people maybe they're not as or some people maybe they're not as or some people maybe they're not as memorable memorable memorable um but have the spreadsheet with all um but have the spreadsheet with all um but have the spreadsheet with all the items kind of the same questions you the items kind of the same questions you the items kind of the same questions you want to ask ask want to ask ask want to ask ask the same questions and then you add the same questions and then you add the same questions and then you add those answers those answers those answers in the spreadsheet so that later 20 in the spreadsheet so that later 20 in the spreadsheet so that later 20 interviews later interviews later interviews later you don't forget what this first person you don't forget what this first person you don't forget what this first person told me about this told me about this told me about this so that you try not to be so that you try not to be so that you try not to be subjective but you want to be objective very nice i've seen companies very nice i've seen companies yeah i've been in interview processes yeah i've been in interview processes yeah i've been in interview processes where companies um where companies um where companies um have like numerical ratings and they have like numerical ratings and they have like numerical ratings and they average them and that always felt average them and that always felt average them and that always felt kind of odd i like that as an engineer kind of odd i like that as an engineer kind of odd i like that as an engineer but i did not like it as a true but i did not like it as a true but i did not like it as a true there are just certain things that were there are just certain things that were there are just certain things that were really hard to manage and put a number really hard to manage and put a number really hard to manage and put a number to to to um and i think um and i think um and i think yeah there's something about having the yeah there's something about having the yeah there's something about having the right people doing the interviews right people doing the interviews right people doing the interviews i think is a big deal like learning to i think is a big deal like learning to i think is a big deal like learning to interview yourself is a skill

interview yourself is a skill interview yourself is a skill but then teaching someone else right or but then teaching someone else right or but then teaching someone else right or bringing someone else on because bringing someone else on because bringing someone else on because we often give people to a little too we often give people to a little too we often give people to a little too much of the benefit of the doubt i think much of the benefit of the doubt i think much of the benefit of the doubt i think in interviews you have to be in interviews you have to be in interviews you have to be you don't have to be mean you don't have you don't have to be mean you don't have you don't have to be mean you don't have and you shouldn't be but you do have to and you shouldn't be but you do have to and you shouldn't be but you do have to dig dig dig in and and you know some people are in and and you know some people are in and and you know some people are really good at talking really good at talking really good at talking about their experience but they'll talk about their experience but they'll talk about their experience but they'll talk about it in a vague way and you almost about it in a vague way and you almost about it in a vague way and you almost have to have to have to push a little bit on it like you're a push a little bit on it like you're a push a little bit on it like you're a journalist right push a little bit like journalist right push a little bit like journalist right push a little bit like tell me more about exactly what you did tell me more about exactly what you did tell me more about exactly what you did there or tell me how that didn't work there or tell me how that didn't work there or tell me how that didn't work out or you know there's just certain out or you know there's just certain out or you know there's just certain things you can test out where people say things you can test out where people say things you can test out where people say i was in charge of all these projects i was in charge of all these projects i was in charge of all these projects turns out they weren't in charge of it turns out they weren't in charge of it turns out they weren't in charge of it you know they were like in charge of one you know they were like in charge of one you know they were like in charge of one section of section of section of it once you get deeper in most people it once you get deeper in most people it once you get deeper in most people are not not just gonna lie are not not just gonna lie are not not just gonna lie straight to your face if you actually straight to your face if you actually straight to your face if you actually ask the direct question ask the direct question ask the direct question they will answer you truthfully again they will answer you truthfully again they will answer you truthfully again most people but you do have to most people but you do have to most people but you do have to ask these questions pretty directly in a ask these questions pretty directly in a ask these questions pretty directly in a way that might make you uncomfortable it way that might make you uncomfortable it way that might make you uncomfortable it might be unnatural at first if you're might be unnatural at first if you're might be unnatural at first if you're used to being you know especially nice used to being you know especially nice used to being you know especially nice if you live in minnesota and you're if you live in minnesota and you're if you live in minnesota and you're minnesota nice minnesota nice minnesota nice like a lot of people i ran into they like a lot of people i ran into they like a lot of people i ran into they they don't want to get personal you know they don't want to get personal you know they don't want to get personal you know you know it feels uncomfortable that's you know it feels uncomfortable that's you know it feels uncomfortable that's not a natural thing well in interviews not a natural thing well in interviews not a natural thing well in interviews you kind of do you kind of do you kind of do you don't have to get personal per se you don't have to get personal per se you don't have to get personal per se but you do have to ask uh but you do have to ask uh but you do have to ask uh you know some pointed questions and then you know some pointed questions and then you know some pointed questions and then you have to dig a little deeper and try you have to dig a little deeper and try you have to dig a little deeper and try to learn to do that to learn to do that to learn to do that in a tactful manner that doesn't feel in a tactful manner that doesn't feel in a tactful manner that doesn't feel uncomfortable i love it actually i would uncomfortable i love it actually i would uncomfortable i love it actually i would go a step further go a step further go a step further especially for say salespeople put some especially for say salespeople put some especially for say salespeople put some pressure on them pressure on them pressure on them not just sales people see if that's not just sales people see if that's not just sales people see if that's appropriate but i would add some appropriate but i would add some appropriate but i would add some pressure and see how they behave pressure and see how they behave pressure and see how they behave because during the interview they're on

because during the interview they're on because during the interview they're on their best behavior their best behavior their best behavior right they're not going to be probably right they're not going to be probably right they're not going to be probably better than they are on the interview better than they are on the interview better than they are on the interview so you want to dig deeper you want to so you want to dig deeper you want to so you want to dig deeper you want to see how they behave under see how they behave under see how they behave under a little bit of a pressure yep a little bit of a pressure yep a little bit of a pressure yep i think for certain roles i mean i think for certain roles i mean i think for certain roles i mean especially like c-level executives especially like c-level executives especially like c-level executives um sales folks i think that's yeah could um sales folks i think that's yeah could um sales folks i think that's yeah could be appropriate be appropriate be appropriate i like what you said earlier about the i like what you said earlier about the i like what you said earlier about the mistake that i've seen companies mistake that i've seen companies mistake that i've seen companies make is they bring in an early hire make is they bring in an early hire make is they bring in an early hire and instead of bring in a sales person and instead of bring in a sales person and instead of bring in a sales person they bring in a sales they bring in a sales they bring in a sales manager but it's like if you don't have manager but it's like if you don't have manager but it's like if you don't have the budget to also now go out and have the budget to also now go out and have the budget to also now go out and have that sales manager hire a bunch of sales that sales manager hire a bunch of sales that sales manager hire a bunch of sales people you've just made a mistake people you've just made a mistake people you've just made a mistake because you need someone boots on the because you need someone boots on the because you need someone boots on the ground ground ground now if you're venture funded you have now if you're venture funded you have now if you're venture funded you have buckets of money and you plan to build buckets of money and you plan to build buckets of money and you plan to build out a big sales team in the next three out a big sales team in the next three out a big sales team in the next three months months months of course you need that that director of of course you need that that director of of course you need that that director of sales or the vp of sales who's then sales or the vp of sales who's then sales or the vp of sales who's then going to hire the people going to hire the people going to hire the people that implies you already have the budget that implies you already have the budget that implies you already have the budget for that and bootstrappers don't tend to for that and bootstrappers don't tend to for that and bootstrappers don't tend to have that have that have that and so as a bootstrapper you do have to and so as a bootstrapper you do have to and so as a bootstrapper you do have to build bottom up build bottom up build bottom up versus top-down like some well-funded versus top-down like some well-funded versus top-down like some well-funded companies will do where they start with companies will do where they start with companies will do where they start with some c-level execs or they start with some c-level execs or they start with some c-level execs or they start with vps vps vps and higher down i think there's ton of and higher down i think there's ton of and higher down i think there's ton of danger danger danger in in doing that another question this in in doing that another question this in in doing that another question this one's an interesting one's an interesting one's an interesting curveball for us uh is there a place curveball for us uh is there a place curveball for us uh is there a place for sas models in domains like weddings for sas models in domains like weddings for sas models in domains like weddings publishing or home renovation home publishing or home renovation home publishing or home renovation home renovation renovation renovation which are rather which are rather rare which are rather which are rather rare which are rather which are rather rare but but but high ticket high value events are there high ticket high value events are there high ticket high value events are there successful examples of sas in any other successful examples of sas in any other successful examples of sas in any other areas areas areas where use is likely limited to a few where use is likely limited to a few where use is likely limited to a few months months months you have any thoughts on that that's

you have any thoughts on that that's you have any thoughts on that that's from in the chat um not in the chat um not really not something that is connected really not something that is connected really not something that is connected to to to this subject so not sure yeah yeah this subject so not sure yeah yeah this subject so not sure yeah yeah i have the same well yeah my experience i have the same well yeah my experience i have the same well yeah my experience is no is no is no wedding sass i would not target the end wedding sass i would not target the end wedding sass i would not target the end users i would not target the consumers users i would not target the consumers users i would not target the consumers with it i would target with it i would target with it i would target all the businesses you know the the all the businesses you know the the all the businesses you know the the vendors the vendors the vendors the the um wedding consultants the wedding the um wedding consultants the wedding the um wedding consultants the wedding coordinators coordinators coordinators uh again you know similarly with home uh again you know similarly with home uh again you know similarly with home renovation i would be targeting the renovation i would be targeting the renovation i would be targeting the contractors we've actually funded two contractors we've actually funded two contractors we've actually funded two companies through tinyseed that are in companies through tinyseed that are in companies through tinyseed that are in the construction space but they're not the construction space but they're not the construction space but they're not targeting the end consumers because targeting the end consumers because targeting the end consumers because really consumers don't want to pay you really consumers don't want to pay you really consumers don't want to pay you know we've gone through know we've gone through know we've gone through b2c sas is something that virtually b2c sas is something that virtually b2c sas is something that virtually doesn't exist and really doesn't work doesn't exist and really doesn't work doesn't exist and really doesn't work very well in general um very well in general um very well in general um too much price sensitivity and uh churns too much price sensitivity and uh churns too much price sensitivity and uh churns too high so too high so too high so if i were to try try to get into the if i were to try try to get into the if i were to try try to get into the home renovation of the publishing space home renovation of the publishing space home renovation of the publishing space i'd be looking at the businesses i'd be looking at the businesses i'd be looking at the businesses in the publisher side and the in the publisher side and the in the publisher side and the construction side and i would stay away construction side and i would stay away construction side and i would stay away from the trap if you're bootstrapping from the trap if you're bootstrapping from the trap if you're bootstrapping and especially if it's your first one and especially if it's your first one and especially if it's your first one there's always the trap of i want to there's always the trap of i want to there's always the trap of i want to build a two-sided marketplace and that's build a two-sided marketplace and that's build a two-sided marketplace and that's what everybody wants to do from the what everybody wants to do from the what everybody wants to do from the start start start and it almost never works so if if and it almost never works so if if and it almost never works so if if you're early to sas you're early to sas you're early to sas meaning it's your your first one i would meaning it's your your first one i would meaning it's your your first one i would look at stepping up slowly to try to get look at stepping up slowly to try to get look at stepping up slowly to try to get there or there or there or um going after something that's a little um going after something that's a little um going after something that's a little more proven you know probably a small more proven you know probably a small more proven you know probably a small niche niche niche kind of b2b sas play so there's another kind of b2b sas play so there's another kind of b2b sas play so there's another question that rounds us out we're question that rounds us out we're question that rounds us out we're actually uh actually uh actually uh the time always goes so fast and we just the time always goes so fast and we just the time always goes so fast and we just have a couple minutes left but have a couple minutes left but have a couple minutes left but do you have tips for building a high

do you have tips for building a high do you have tips for building a high performance team performance team performance team i realize that's a pretty general i realize that's a pretty general i realize that's a pretty general question but if someone's thinking question but if someone's thinking question but if someone's thinking i'm going to hire my next three or four i'm going to hire my next three or four i'm going to hire my next three or four people over the next year and i want us people over the next year and i want us people over the next year and i want us to be a cohesive group to be a cohesive group to be a cohesive group that's all headed in the same direction that's all headed in the same direction that's all headed in the same direction and we're getting done and we're getting done and we're getting done you know what what would you do from the you know what what would you do from the you know what what would you do from the start what would you advise a founder start what would you advise a founder start what would you advise a founder that's a great question to add a ball uh that's a great question to add a ball uh that's a great question to add a ball uh to the very end of this conversation but to the very end of this conversation but to the very end of this conversation but really taking a step back really taking a step back really taking a step back the third reason why software companies the third reason why software companies the third reason why software companies fail is not the right team fail is not the right team fail is not the right team after no market fit and run out of cash after no market fit and run out of cash after no market fit and run out of cash not the right team is top third reason not the right team is top third reason not the right team is top third reason why why why software companies fail can you imagine software companies fail can you imagine software companies fail can you imagine that so it is just so that so it is just so that so it is just so important but also not the right team important but also not the right team important but also not the right team implies that it is that person's problem implies that it is that person's problem implies that it is that person's problem and not the founder problem and not the founder problem and not the founder problem now i want to say that high performance now i want to say that high performance now i want to say that high performance team is really result of team is really result of team is really result of founders knowledge uh and expertise founders knowledge uh and expertise founders knowledge uh and expertise and experience in managing and leading and experience in managing and leading and experience in managing and leading teams teams teams and that's uh kind of a chicken on an and that's uh kind of a chicken on an and that's uh kind of a chicken on an egg egg egg problem because good judgment is a problem because good judgment is a problem because good judgment is a result of experience result of experience result of experience and experience is a result of bad and experience is a result of bad and experience is a result of bad judgment so unless you have this bad judgment so unless you have this bad judgment so unless you have this bad judgment and make judgment and make judgment and make all kind of mistakes you are not going all kind of mistakes you are not going all kind of mistakes you are not going to be able to probably build to be able to probably build to be able to probably build high performance team also high high performance team also high high performance team also high performance team performance team performance team usually is not a newly formed team usually is not a newly formed team usually is not a newly formed team it is a group of people who have had it is a group of people who have had it is a group of people who have had prior experience working together prior experience working together prior experience working together so probably at least few months to

so probably at least few months to so probably at least few months to couple of years couple of years couple of years but yes i think looking in the mirror but yes i think looking in the mirror but yes i think looking in the mirror and not the window is important if you and not the window is important if you and not the window is important if you think that someone doesn't work think that someone doesn't work think that someone doesn't work out i always say that out i always say that out i always say that if your team sucks as a manager if your team sucks as a manager if your team sucks as a manager it is you as a leader as a manager who it is you as a leader as a manager who it is you as a leader as a manager who actually sucks at actually sucks at actually sucks at managing or leading so it's always look managing or leading so it's always look managing or leading so it's always look uh look in the mirror uh look in the mirror uh look in the mirror and see how you can improve things and see how you can improve things and see how you can improve things thinking that thinking that thinking that you hire a bunch of a players and then you hire a bunch of a players and then you hire a bunch of a players and then they're gonna you know they're gonna you know they're gonna you know solve all the problems is not gonna help solve all the problems is not gonna help solve all the problems is not gonna help because all of those a players if you because all of those a players if you because all of those a players if you don't have don't have don't have systems in place if you don't know how systems in place if you don't know how systems in place if you don't know how to manage those people to manage those people to manage those people either going to become b or c players or either going to become b or c players or either going to become b or c players or are they going to leave yeah one of my the advice i give to to yeah one of my the advice i give to to folks today if you're going to get a job folks today if you're going to get a job folks today if you're going to get a job as a manager and come work for whether as a manager and come work for whether as a manager and come work for whether it's a startup or a large company it's a startup or a large company it's a startup or a large company is make sure that you have higher fire is make sure that you have higher fire is make sure that you have higher fire privileges going in privileges going in privileges going in because i made the mistake early on in because i made the mistake early on in because i made the mistake early on in my career i was in my late 20s and it my career i was in my late 20s and it my career i was in my late 20s and it was like my second or third job was like my second or third job was like my second or third job and i was managing a team but after i and i was managing a team but after i and i was managing a team but after i started i was like wow there's like two started i was like wow there's like two started i was like wow there's like two or three people here that are not or three people here that are not or three people here that are not working out and they're like yeah you working out and they're like yeah you working out and they're like yeah you don't have the authority to fire them don't have the authority to fire them don't have the authority to fire them and i was like what they're my team but and i was like what they're my team but and i was like what they're my team but it was a city government and there was a it was a city government and there was a it was a city government and there was a bunch of you know stuff bunch of you know stuff bunch of you know stuff who had the right to do this and that who had the right to do this and that who had the right to do this and that very political but um very political but um very political but um to your point if you inherit a team you to your point if you inherit a team you to your point if you inherit a team you need to need to need to go through and figure out how to how to go through and figure out how to how to go through and figure out how to how to make that team high performance and make that team high performance and make that team high performance and oftentimes that will mean letting some oftentimes that will mean letting some oftentimes that will mean letting some folks go and replacing

folks go and replacing folks go and replacing if you build the team from scratch it's if you build the team from scratch it's if you build the team from scratch it's your responsibility from the start to do your responsibility from the start to do your responsibility from the start to do that and if you've never done it you that and if you've never done it you that and if you've never done it you likely will make some mistakes and so i likely will make some mistakes and so i likely will make some mistakes and so i think be prepared for that think be prepared for that think be prepared for that one actionable item i wanted to add here one actionable item i wanted to add here one actionable item i wanted to add here is make sure that the team knows your is make sure that the team knows your is make sure that the team knows your metrics make sure that you have those metrics make sure that you have those metrics make sure that you have those metrics and you know them because metrics and you know them because metrics and you know them because oftentimes the founder oftentimes the founder oftentimes the founder themselves do not know what it is that themselves do not know what it is that themselves do not know what it is that they're trying to achieve they're trying to achieve they're trying to achieve what it is that we're working towards what it is that we're working towards what it is that we're working towards this week this month a lot of times the this week this month a lot of times the this week this month a lot of times the founder doesn't know so how would the founder doesn't know so how would the founder doesn't know so how would the team know so the team needs to be team know so the team needs to be team know so the team needs to be motivated motivated motivated and if they don't know what's the score and if they don't know what's the score and if they don't know what's the score how you know how do they achieve how you know how do they achieve how you know how do they achieve what they need to achieve where they are what they need to achieve where they are what they need to achieve where they are right now then they're not gonna be right now then they're not gonna be right now then they're not gonna be motivated and this is part of motivated and this is part of motivated and this is part of high performance team but it's a very high performance team but it's a very high performance team but it's a very loaded subject i'm actually writing a loaded subject i'm actually writing a loaded subject i'm actually writing a book book book about turning a low performance team to about turning a low performance team to about turning a low performance team to high performance teams high performance teams high performance teams for sas uh sas remote teams for sas uh sas remote teams for sas uh sas remote teams very nice and if folks want to keep up very nice and if folks want to keep up very nice and if folks want to keep up with you and potentially hear about that with you and potentially hear about that with you and potentially hear about that book when it comes out they can head to book when it comes out they can head to book when it comes out they can head to natalie underscore luneva on twitter as natalie underscore luneva on twitter as natalie underscore luneva on twitter as well as well as well as natalieluneva.com natalie thanks so much natalieluneva.com natalie thanks so much natalieluneva.com natalie thanks so much for joining me today for 30 minutes for joining me today for 30 minutes for joining me today for 30 minutes thank you for having me awesome well thank you for having me awesome well thank you for having me awesome well thanks for joining us i am uh wait thanks for joining us i am uh wait thanks for joining us i am uh wait hair model producer xander uh changed my hair model producer xander uh changed my hair model producer xander uh changed my lower third there lower third there lower third there um thanks so much for for joining us um thanks so much for for joining us um thanks so much for for joining us again he's pointing out that yes i do again he's pointing out that yes i do again he's pointing out that yes i do have a little bit of color have a little bit of color have a little bit of color a little bit of color added to the hair a little bit of color added to the hair a little bit of color added to the hair here it's a post-covet um here it's a post-covet um here it's a post-covet um not postcode but it's a kovid fall false not postcode but it's a kovid fall false not postcode but it's a kovid fall false blender thing so blender thing so blender thing so microcomp remote replay is going on

microcomp remote replay is going on microcomp remote replay is going on microconfermot.com if you want to see microconfermot.com if you want to see microconfermot.com if you want to see the replay of the event we did a couple the replay of the event we did a couple the replay of the event we did a couple weeks back weeks back weeks back i believe it's 25 for four or five hours i believe it's 25 for four or five hours i believe it's 25 for four or five hours of epic live stream content of epic live stream content of epic live stream content thank you so much to hey and stripe for thank you so much to hey and stripe for thank you so much to hey and stripe for being our headline partners for the year being our headline partners for the year being our headline partners for the year it's always awesome to be working with it's always awesome to be working with it's always awesome to be working with them in 2020 and beyond them in 2020 and beyond them in 2020 and beyond thank you so much for joining us i'll thank you so much for joining us i'll thank you so much for joining us i'll see you again next week same time see you again next week same time see you again next week same time same place [Music] [Music] you