Why the Future is Human … Plus AI | Esther Perel and Sal Khan

What worries me is that we are more and What worries me is that we are more and more disembodied. Uh we gather less, we more disembodied. Uh we gather less, we more disembodied. Uh we gather less, we party less, we drink less, we party less, we drink less, we party less, we drink less, we 74% of food that is cooked in an 74% of food that is cooked in an 74% of food that is cooked in an American restaurant is eaten off the American restaurant is eaten off the American restaurant is eaten off the premises. premises. premises. What worries me is that we can't really What worries me is that we can't really What worries me is that we can't really deal with the messiness of human life deal with the messiness of human life deal with the messiness of human life the way that we are called upon to do. >> Where should we begin? >> Where should we begin? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You want to go first? >> You want to go first? >> You want to go first? >> With the No, no, no. >> With the No, no, no. >> With the No, no, no. >> Oh, I go first? >> Oh, I go first? >> Oh, I go first? >> would I would serve you. >> would I would serve you. >> would I would serve you. >> Okay. Okay, let me see. Let me I'll >> Okay. Okay, let me see. Let me I'll >> Okay. Okay, let me see. Let me I'll shuffle it up a little while. It's not shuffle it up a little while. It's not shuffle it up a little while. It's not Okay, I'll pick this just in case they Okay, I'll pick this just in case they Okay, I'll pick this just in case they rigged it. If you could redesign one rigged it. If you could redesign one rigged it. If you could redesign one system from scratch, what would it be system from scratch, what would it be system from scratch, what would it be and why? and why? and why? >> I actually >> I actually >> I actually if you give me that card, if you give me that card, if you give me that card, I would put it back in the bowl. I would put it back in the bowl. I would put it back in the bowl. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You don't want to answer that?

>> You don't want to answer that? >> You don't want to answer that? >> No, because I actually don't think that >> No, because I actually don't think that >> No, because I actually don't think that um I have um I have um I have There is no system that I would redesign There is no system that I would redesign There is no system that I would redesign from scratch, but there's only one from scratch, but there's only one from scratch, but there's only one system that I know well, and that is the system that I know well, and that is the system that I know well, and that is the mental health system. So, I think that mental health system. So, I think that mental health system. So, I think that there's so much that one can do to there's so much that one can do to there's so much that one can do to improve the services in mental health, improve the services in mental health, improve the services in mental health, institutionally, institutionally, institutionally, um training-wise, service delivery, um training-wise, service delivery, um training-wise, service delivery, interconnection to the legal system, to interconnection to the legal system, to interconnection to the legal system, to the medical system. It's a huge systemic the medical system. It's a huge systemic the medical system. It's a huge systemic redesign, and I actually work with very redesign, and I actually work with very redesign, and I actually work with very small systems, couples, families, small systems, couples, families, small systems, couples, families, groups. groups. groups. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> My systems are micro systems. >> My systems are micro systems. >> My systems are micro systems. What would you say is one system that What would you say is one system that What would you say is one system that you would redesign from scratch? you would redesign from scratch? you would redesign from scratch? >> Oh, well, uh probably the one >> Oh, well, uh probably the one >> Oh, well, uh probably the one >> It's an enormous question, isn't >> It's an enormous question, isn't >> It's an enormous question, isn't >> It's a big question. You had a good >> It's a big question. You had a good >> It's a big question. You had a good answer. You had a good answer. Uh you answer. You had a good answer. Uh you answer. You had a good answer. Uh you know, the one people would expect me to know, the one people would expect me to know, the one people would expect me to answer and this would be the system is answer and this would be the system is answer and this would be the system is is the education system. is the education system. is the education system. You know, I I I talk a lot about that You know, I I I talk a lot about that You know, I I I talk a lot about that we've always known that the ideal we've always known that the ideal we've always known that the ideal education system is one that's very education system is one that's very education system is one that's very personalized. I always talk about that personalized. I always talk about that personalized. I always talk about that Alexander the Great had Aristotle as his Alexander the Great had Aristotle as his Alexander the Great had Aristotle as his personal tutor and throughout most of personal tutor and throughout most of personal tutor and throughout most of human history human history human history if you had resources, if you were a if you had resources, if you were a if you had resources, if you were a young prince, you did have a very good young prince, you did have a very good young prince, you did have a very good education. You fast forward to 2-300 education. You fast forward to 2-300 education. You fast forward to 2-300 years ago, we have a very utopian idea years ago, we have a very utopian idea years ago, we have a very utopian idea mass public education, but we have to mass public education, but we have to mass public education, but we have to make compromises. We have to batch make compromises. We have to batch make compromises. We have to batch students together, move them all students together, move them all students together, move them all together at the same pace, have some together at the same pace, have some together at the same pace, have some state mandated curricula standards. If a state mandated curricula standards. If a state mandated curricula standards. If a student doesn't understand a concept and

student doesn't understand a concept and student doesn't understand a concept and gets a a C, gets a a C, gets a a C, too bad. That C is in their transcript too bad. That C is in their transcript too bad. That C is in their transcript forever and they move on having to build forever and they move on having to build forever and they move on having to build on that C as opposed to having a chance on that C as opposed to having a chance on that C as opposed to having a chance to keep learning it so they can get it to keep learning it so they can get it to keep learning it so they can get it to a B or an A. So, I would instead of to a B or an A. So, I would instead of to a B or an A. So, I would instead of making it one-size-fits-all, making it one-size-fits-all, making it one-size-fits-all, I'd make it personalized. Instead of I'd make it personalized. Instead of I'd make it personalized. Instead of making it you only get one shot to get making it you only get one shot to get making it you only get one shot to get the grade and then you build on that the grade and then you build on that the grade and then you build on that gap, I would make it mastery-based, gap, I would make it mastery-based, gap, I would make it mastery-based, which means keep learning, which is what which means keep learning, which is what which means keep learning, which is what you would do today if you're learning a you would do today if you're learning a you would do today if you're learning a musical instrument or a or a musical instrument or a or a musical instrument or a or a or or a a sport, becoming Olympian. So, or or a a sport, becoming Olympian. So, or or a a sport, becoming Olympian. So, and I think the credential should be the and I think the credential should be the and I think the credential should be the same way. Higher education should be the same way. Higher education should be the same way. Higher education should be the same way. It should be what you know, same way. It should be what you know, same way. It should be what you know, not how long you sat in a chair. not how long you sat in a chair. not how long you sat in a chair. >> But you are looking at mastery and >> But you are looking at mastery and >> But you are looking at mastery and knowledge acquisition. Do you include in knowledge acquisition. Do you include in knowledge acquisition. Do you include in your definition of education also the your definition of education also the your definition of education also the relational component? relational component? relational component? >> 100% and and I think this is something >> 100% and and I think this is something >> 100% and and I think this is something that's also been missing. You know, one that's also been missing. You know, one that's also been missing. You know, one of the main arguments people have always of the main arguments people have always of the main arguments people have always given for, especially why in-person given for, especially why in-person given for, especially why in-person schooling is so important, is that's a schooling is so important, is that's a schooling is so important, is that's a way to build social connections, way to build social connections, way to build social connections, socialization, learn to deal with socialization, learn to deal with socialization, learn to deal with conflict, relationships.

conflict, relationships. conflict, relationships. And I agree. That is where many of us And I agree. That is where many of us And I agree. That is where many of us develop that, but nowhere on your on develop that, but nowhere on your on develop that, but nowhere on your on your transcript does it say that you are your transcript does it say that you are your transcript does it say that you are you are good at collaboration. You are a you are good at collaboration. You are a you are good at collaboration. You are a good listener. And so, I would also and good listener. And so, I would also and good listener. And so, I would also and I think we have a an interesting I think we have a an interesting I think we have a an interesting opportunity in the in the coming years opportunity in the in the coming years opportunity in the in the coming years to really to really to really >> Do you know why? >> Do you know why? >> Do you know why? >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> Because relationship skills and >> Because relationship skills and >> Because relationship skills and relational intelligence, even in the relational intelligence, even in the relational intelligence, even in the workplace, workplace, workplace, has always been considered soft skills. has always been considered soft skills. has always been considered soft skills. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And soft skills used to be seen as >> And soft skills used to be seen as >> And soft skills used to be seen as feminine skills. And feminine skills are feminine skills. And feminine skills are feminine skills. And feminine skills are often highly regarded in principle and often highly regarded in principle and often highly regarded in principle and disregarded in reality. And that is disregarded in reality. And that is disregarded in reality. And that is fundamentally changing now. For the fundamentally changing now. For the fundamentally changing now. For the first time, relationship skills and first time, relationship skills and first time, relationship skills and relational intelligence are actually relational intelligence are actually relational intelligence are actually part of the bottom line and they're seen part of the bottom line and they're seen part of the bottom line and they're seen as hard skills. And if the workplace as hard skills. And if the workplace as hard skills. And if the workplace needs it, the education system is going needs it, the education system is going needs it, the education system is going to begin to value it, too. to begin to value it, too. to begin to value it, too. >> 100% You know, all of the talk these >> 100% You know, all of the talk these >> 100% You know, all of the talk these days about AI and how you develop skills days about AI and how you develop skills days about AI and how you develop skills for AI. And we're working on some higher for AI. And we're working on some higher for AI. And we're working on some higher education initiatives including with TED education initiatives including with TED education initiatives including with TED and Khan Academy on and the skill when and Khan Academy on and the skill when and Khan Academy on and the skill when we talk to employers, yes, they want we talk to employers, yes, they want we talk to employers, yes, they want people to know how to vibe code and do people to know how to vibe code and do people to know how to vibe code and do this with that model. But the one they this with that model. But the one they this with that model. But the one they really care about and they're calling really care about and they're calling really care about and they're calling them durable skills now are them durable skills now are them durable skills now are communication, communication, communication, collaboration, creativity, listening collaboration, creativity, listening collaboration, creativity, listening skills, relationship skills. So, 100% skills, relationship skills. So, 100% skills, relationship skills. So, 100% agree.

agree. agree. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting that it >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting that it >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting that it comes from the workplace and it will comes from the workplace and it will comes from the workplace and it will create a You know, in the same way that create a You know, in the same way that create a You know, in the same way that the workplace and the economy and the the workplace and the economy and the the workplace and the economy and the technological changes have constantly technological changes have constantly technological changes have constantly changed the curriculum, changed the curriculum, changed the curriculum, now it's going to change the relational now it's going to change the relational now it's going to change the relational aspects of education. aspects of education. aspects of education. >> And one last thing I I we could talk the >> And one last thing I I we could talk the >> And one last thing I I we could talk the whole time on this one question. It is whole time on this one question. It is whole time on this one question. It is um um um >> I'm going to do this. >> I'm going to do this. >> I'm going to do this. >> Yeah. There you go. >> Yeah. There you go. >> Yeah. There you go. I'll say one last thing about that cuz I'll say one last thing about that cuz I'll say one last thing about that cuz it sometimes there's a it sometimes there's a it sometimes there's a people view Oh, if you're preparing people view Oh, if you're preparing people view Oh, if you're preparing people for work, it's it's vocational people for work, it's it's vocational people for work, it's it's vocational and they view that as less than the the and they view that as less than the the and they view that as less than the the pure academics. But this is an example pure academics. But this is an example pure academics. But this is an example of This is a skill or set of skills that of This is a skill or set of skills that of This is a skill or set of skills that the workplace actually wants and they're the workplace actually wants and they're the workplace actually wants and they're not calling it soft skills anymore. not calling it soft skills anymore. not calling it soft skills anymore. They're calling it durable skills. And They're calling it durable skills. And They're calling it durable skills. And these are human skills. These make you a these are human skills. These make you a these are human skills. These make you a better human being. So, this is an better human being. So, this is an better human being. So, this is an example of the vocation is asking for example of the vocation is asking for example of the vocation is asking for you to become a better human. >> What is the conversation that you think >> What is the conversation that you think the world needs to have, yet isn't ready the world needs to have, yet isn't ready the world needs to have, yet isn't ready for yet? for yet? for yet? >> There is a >> There is a >> There is a I think a high likelihood that we have I think a high likelihood that we have I think a high likelihood that we have major disruptions actually almost every major disruptions actually almost every major disruptions actually almost every dimension of our of our world in the dimension of our of our world in the dimension of our of our world in the next 5 to 10 years. The most obvious next 5 to 10 years. The most obvious next 5 to 10 years. The most obvious place is in the world of work where place is in the world of work where place is in the world of work where anyone from an Uber driver, you have the anyone from an Uber driver, you have the anyone from an Uber driver, you have the Waymos coming in to a call center worker Waymos coming in to a call center worker Waymos coming in to a call center worker to a software engineer, those jobs are to a software engineer, those jobs are to a software engineer, those jobs are either going to be transformed either going to be transformed either going to be transformed dramatically or there might be dramatically or there might be dramatically or there might be shrinkage. You know, some people say, shrinkage. You know, some people say, shrinkage. You know, some people say, "Oh, new jobs always get created." But "Oh, new jobs always get created." But "Oh, new jobs always get created." But hope isn't a strategy. And And if we hope isn't a strategy. And And if we hope isn't a strategy. And And if we don't do anything about it, it's not don't do anything about it, it's not don't do anything about it, it's not just, and this is bad enough because just, and this is bad enough because just, and this is bad enough because those people have families, they're not

those people have families, they're not those people have families, they're not going to find other jobs. going to find other jobs. going to find other jobs. It has It has follow-on effects. It has It has follow-on effects. It has It has follow-on effects. But it'll One of the biggest ones going But it'll One of the biggest ones going But it'll One of the biggest ones going to go into politics, it's going to go to to go into politics, it's going to go to to go into politics, it's going to go to polarization. A lot of people think and polarization. A lot of people think and polarization. A lot of people think and and I agree that a lot of the and I agree that a lot of the and I agree that a lot of the polarization that and and that we're polarization that and and that we're polarization that and and that we're seeing today is because of 30 years of seeing today is because of 30 years of seeing today is because of 30 years of globalization. But that took 30 years. globalization. But that took 30 years. globalization. But that took 30 years. If this takes 3 years or even 5 years, If this takes 3 years or even 5 years, If this takes 3 years or even 5 years, um we don't have the systems to to do um we don't have the systems to to do um we don't have the systems to to do something about it. So, I think we have something about it. So, I think we have something about it. So, I think we have to have that conversation. And I think to have that conversation. And I think to have that conversation. And I think there will be a uh uh a re-emergence of there will be a uh uh a re-emergence of there will be a uh uh a re-emergence of people looking for the transcendent, the people looking for the transcendent, the people looking for the transcendent, the um spiritual, whatever you want to call um spiritual, whatever you want to call um spiritual, whatever you want to call it, because as AI starts to encroach on it, because as AI starts to encroach on it, because as AI starts to encroach on the things that we used to think were the things that we used to think were the things that we used to think were uniquely human, uniquely human, uniquely human, we are all going to be looking One, we we are all going to be looking One, we we are all going to be looking One, we need the purpose in work. If we don't need the purpose in work. If we don't need the purpose in work. If we don't find that, "Hey, how am I contributing find that, "Hey, how am I contributing find that, "Hey, how am I contributing to society and how am I supporting my to society and how am I supporting my to society and how am I supporting my family?" It's hard to think about family?" It's hard to think about family?" It's hard to think about anything else. But then we also want to anything else. But then we also want to anything else. But then we also want to think about think about think about "What am I? Who am I in this in this "What am I? Who am I in this in this "What am I? Who am I in this in this grand thing?" So, those are the grand thing?" So, those are the grand thing?" So, those are the conversations we we should be having conversations we we should be having conversations we we should be having with more urgency. What do you think are with more urgency. What do you think are with more urgency. What do you think are the conversations? the conversations? the conversations? >> I mean, the conversation I am >> I mean, the conversation I am >> I mean, the conversation I am participating in and trying to shape as participating in and trying to shape as participating in and trying to shape as well is the conversation about well is the conversation about well is the conversation about relationships, because I think relationships, because I think relationships, because I think relationships are undergoing a massive relationships are undergoing a massive relationships are undergoing a massive makeover.

makeover. makeover. The norms are literally shifting under The norms are literally shifting under The norms are literally shifting under our feet, and we don't necessarily have our feet, and we don't necessarily have our feet, and we don't necessarily have the skills because globalization is one the skills because globalization is one the skills because globalization is one piece, but social atrophy is something piece, but social atrophy is something piece, but social atrophy is something else. And so, I think they are more else. And so, I think they are more else. And so, I think they are more complicated than they've ever been, complicated than they've ever been, complicated than they've ever been, certainly in the parts of the world certainly in the parts of the world certainly in the parts of the world where they are organized by negotiation. where they are organized by negotiation. where they are organized by negotiation. It's no longer about duty and obligation It's no longer about duty and obligation It's no longer about duty and obligation and loyalty and community. Then you know and loyalty and community. Then you know and loyalty and community. Then you know what you need to do, you know what you what you need to do, you know what you what you need to do, you know what you need to accept, you know what you can need to accept, you know what you can need to accept, you know what you can and cannot change, and you know what and cannot change, and you know what and cannot change, and you know what decisions lie on your shoulders and what decisions lie on your shoulders and what decisions lie on your shoulders and what is decided for you. But if you live in a is decided for you. But if you live in a is decided for you. But if you live in a model of individualism that puts the model of individualism that puts the model of individualism that puts the individual in the center and you are to individual in the center and you are to individual in the center and you are to negotiate and to make the decisions, negotiate and to make the decisions, negotiate and to make the decisions, then you have a lot more freedom, of then you have a lot more freedom, of then you have a lot more freedom, of course, but it is a it demands a very course, but it is a it demands a very course, but it is a it demands a very different process, and different process, and different process, and it demands adaptability, it demands it demands adaptability, it demands it demands adaptability, it demands flexibility, it demands excellent flexibility, it demands excellent flexibility, it demands excellent communication skills. You know, if it's communication skills. You know, if it's communication skills. You know, if it's father decides and nobody argues, then father decides and nobody argues, then father decides and nobody argues, then you don't really need to develop many you don't really need to develop many you don't really need to develop many skills of communication, but if it's skills of communication, but if it's skills of communication, but if it's about being seen and understanding and about being seen and understanding and about being seen and understanding and and feeling valued, then then and feeling valued, then then and feeling valued, then then So, So, So, I think, interestingly, that I've go to I think, interestingly, that I've go to I think, interestingly, that I've go to a lot of places that have moonshots a lot of places that have moonshots a lot of places that have moonshots about everything, but there is yet to be about everything, but there is yet to be about everything, but there is yet to be a moonshot about relationships. What is a moonshot about relationships. What is a moonshot about relationships. What is a family today? How do we define the a family today? How do we define the a family today? How do we define the circle of care?

circle of care? circle of care? You know, what are the boundaries that You know, what are the boundaries that You know, what are the boundaries that people want to draw around their people want to draw around their people want to draw around their relationships? relationships? relationships? You know, do you have to negotiate Have You know, do you have to negotiate Have You know, do you have to negotiate Have I found the right one? I found the right one? I found the right one? Do we Am I ready for commitment? Do Is Do we Am I ready for commitment? Do Is Do we Am I ready for commitment? Do Is Do we want the same things? Who will Do we want the same things? Who will Do we want the same things? Who will wake up to feed the baby? Will we have a wake up to feed the baby? Will we have a wake up to feed the baby? Will we have a baby? How many baby? When do we want baby? How many baby? When do we want baby? How many baby? When do we want this baby? Will we visit your parents? this baby? Will we visit your parents? this baby? Will we visit your parents? Will we visit my parents? Will we I Will we visit my parents? Will we I Will we visit my parents? Will we I mean, it goes on and on from the small mean, it goes on and on from the small mean, it goes on and on from the small to the big. to the big. to the big. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And now it's what is AI companionship. >> And now it's what is AI companionship. >> And now it's what is AI companionship. >> Yeah. It's wild. >> Yeah. It's wild. >> Yeah. It's wild. >> Oops. >> Oops. >> Oops. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> What worries you about the future of how >> What worries you about the future of how >> What worries you about the future of how we connect with each other? What excites we connect with each other? What excites we connect with each other? What excites you? you? you? >> I love the fact that there is also what >> I love the fact that there is also what >> I love the fact that there is also what excites you. What worries me is that we excites you. What worries me is that we excites you. What worries me is that we are living more and more in a are living more and more in a are living more and more in a contactless world. contactless world. contactless world. That you don't have to leave your house. That you don't have to leave your house. That you don't have to leave your house. You don't. You can make a living, you You don't. You can make a living, you You don't. You can make a living, you can work, you can exercise, you can feed can work, you can exercise, you can feed can work, you can exercise, you can feed yourself, you can shop, you can I mean yourself, you can shop, you can I mean yourself, you can shop, you can I mean it's just it's an unbelievable thing and it's just it's an unbelievable thing and it's just it's an unbelievable thing and that is an enormous amount of points of that is an enormous amount of points of that is an enormous amount of points of contact that are being deleted.

contact that are being deleted. contact that are being deleted. So, it you know, we are becoming more So, it you know, we are becoming more So, it you know, we are becoming more machine. It's not just we are machine. It's not just we are machine. It's not just we are interacting with machines. Maybe the interacting with machines. Maybe the interacting with machines. Maybe the machines are going to actually resemble machines are going to actually resemble machines are going to actually resemble us quite a bit. us quite a bit. us quite a bit. What worries me is that we are more and What worries me is that we are more and What worries me is that we are more and more disembodied. more disembodied. more disembodied. We are less and less in real person We are less and less in real person We are less and less in real person in real life. Uh we gather less, we in real life. Uh we gather less, we in real life. Uh we gather less, we party less, we drink less, we see 74% of party less, we drink less, we see 74% of party less, we drink less, we see 74% of food that is cooked in an American food that is cooked in an American food that is cooked in an American restaurant is eaten off the premises. restaurant is eaten off the premises. restaurant is eaten off the premises. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> So, that whole aspect of uh what worries >> So, that whole aspect of uh what worries >> So, that whole aspect of uh what worries me is that we look for the same kind of me is that we look for the same kind of me is that we look for the same kind of predictability and perfection that the predictability and perfection that the predictability and perfection that the apps give us in the our relationships to apps give us in the our relationships to apps give us in the our relationships to other humans. We want them to be just as other humans. We want them to be just as other humans. We want them to be just as perfect and predictable. perfect and predictable. perfect and predictable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What worries me is that we can't really >> What worries me is that we can't really >> What worries me is that we can't really deal with the messiness of human life deal with the messiness of human life deal with the messiness of human life the way that we are called upon to do. the way that we are called upon to do. the way that we are called upon to do. What excites me What excites me What excites me is that is that is that our some of our fundamental human needs our some of our fundamental human needs our some of our fundamental human needs are so strong that we will find ways to are so strong that we will find ways to are so strong that we will find ways to connect even if it's connecting to a connect even if it's connecting to a connect even if it's connecting to a machine. You know, we will find ways to machine. You know, we will find ways to machine. You know, we will find ways to to express our longings, our to express our longings, our to express our longings, our aspirations, our yearnings, our loss, aspirations, our yearnings, our loss, aspirations, our yearnings, our loss, our need for adoration. Um our need for adoration. Um our need for adoration. Um and what I really am interested in is and what I really am interested in is and what I really am interested in is the proliferation of small groups.

the proliferation of small groups. the proliferation of small groups. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> New small groups um that come together >> New small groups um that come together >> New small groups um that come together around a shared purpose, a shared around a shared purpose, a shared around a shared purpose, a shared vision, an an activity. It's like you vision, an an activity. It's like you vision, an an activity. It's like you see that there's a fatigue of just being see that there's a fatigue of just being see that there's a fatigue of just being constantly on a screen, there's constantly on a screen, there's constantly on a screen, there's something about meeting another human or something about meeting another human or something about meeting another human or humans in person and doing this. humans in person and doing this. humans in person and doing this. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? >> It's It's easy sometimes to think that >> It's It's easy sometimes to think that >> It's It's easy sometimes to think that you live in a special moment in history, you live in a special moment in history, you live in a special moment in history, but I do think we're living in a in a but I do think we're living in a in a but I do think we're living in a in a very special moment in history. A lot of very special moment in history. A lot of very special moment in history. A lot of people have been theorizing about people have been theorizing about people have been theorizing about entering some type of a singularity for entering some type of a singularity for entering some type of a singularity for the last several decades, and as far as the last several decades, and as far as the last several decades, and as far as we can tell, we can tell, we can tell, we are in that singularity. Uh we are in that singularity. Uh we are in that singularity. Uh whether it's artificial intelligence, whether it's artificial intelligence, whether it's artificial intelligence, biotech, manipulating the human genome, biotech, manipulating the human genome, biotech, manipulating the human genome, I mean, all of these things are I mean, all of these things are I mean, all of these things are converging at the same time. And one of converging at the same time. And one of converging at the same time. And one of the things that defines a singularity is the things that defines a singularity is the things that defines a singularity is you don't know what's on the other side. you don't know what's on the other side. you don't know what's on the other side. So, that by definition is scary. We're So, that by definition is scary. We're So, that by definition is scary. We're afraid of things that we don't afraid of things that we don't afraid of things that we don't understand, that we can't predict. And I understand, that we can't predict. And I understand, that we can't predict. And I think And it's happening at a think And it's happening at a think And it's happening at a accelerating And so, I do worry.

accelerating And so, I do worry. accelerating And so, I do worry. Everything you you just said is 100% Everything you you just said is 100% Everything you you just said is 100% true. true. true. >> I say something? I hear it a lot, this >> I say something? I hear it a lot, this >> I say something? I hear it a lot, this thing about we have some certainty and thing about we have some certainty and thing about we have some certainty and we are we are we are We have always had We have always had We have always had massive uncertainty, but we had massive uncertainty, but we had massive uncertainty, but we had religion. religion. religion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Religion was the intermediary >> Religion was the intermediary >> Religion was the intermediary between And we trusted religion. And between And we trusted religion. And between And we trusted religion. And trust is the me intermediary between the trust is the me intermediary between the trust is the me intermediary between the unknown and the known. And religion unknown and the known. And religion unknown and the known. And religion helped you on the deal with the helped you on the deal with the helped you on the deal with the unintelligible, unintelligible, unintelligible, with why people suffer, not that they with why people suffer, not that they with why people suffer, not that they won't suffer, but how to bear the won't suffer, but how to bear the won't suffer, but how to bear the suffering, and with why bad things suffering, and with why bad things suffering, and with why bad things happen to good people, the question of happen to good people, the question of happen to good people, the question of morality and evil. morality and evil. morality and evil. So, we had a system in place that helped So, we had a system in place that helped So, we had a system in place that helped us with the ethical and the existential us with the ethical and the existential us with the ethical and the existential dilemmas of our lives. I don't think we dilemmas of our lives. I don't think we dilemmas of our lives. I don't think we were less or more uncertain. were less or more uncertain. were less or more uncertain. Except for a very short period in time Except for a very short period in time Except for a very short period in time after World War II where my generation after World War II where my generation after World War II where my generation had a kind of a boundless optimism. But, had a kind of a boundless optimism. But, had a kind of a boundless optimism. But, for the rest, I think that for the rest, I think that for the rest, I think that what we have lost is the mechanisms that what we have lost is the mechanisms that what we have lost is the mechanisms that we used to use to deal with our we used to use to deal with our we used to use to deal with our uncertainty, not the fact that we have uncertainty, not the fact that we have uncertainty, not the fact that we have more uncertainty.

more uncertainty. more uncertainty. >> No, that's a good point, too, because >> No, that's a good point, too, because >> No, that's a good point, too, because you're right. For most of human history, you're right. For most of human history, you're right. For most of human history, the the uncertainty the the uncertainty the the uncertainty >> Did you grow up in religion? >> Did you grow up in religion? >> Did you grow up in religion? >> I did not grow up in a religious family. >> I did not grow up in a religious family. >> I did not grow up in a religious family. And, you know, but I agree with you. I And, you know, but I agree with you. I And, you know, but I agree with you. I actually think you're going to see a actually think you're going to see a actually think you're going to see a revival of revival of revival of religion or religion-adjacent types of religion or religion-adjacent types of religion or religion-adjacent types of structures. I think And I actually find structures. I think And I actually find structures. I think And I actually find that that can be exciting. I think that that can be exciting. I think that that can be exciting. I think that's going to be that could be a good that's going to be that could be a good that's going to be that could be a good thing. And you're you're right, even thing. And you're you're right, even thing. And you're you're right, even though I might say, "Oh, singularity, though I might say, "Oh, singularity, though I might say, "Oh, singularity, what's it going to be like in 2 or 3 what's it going to be like in 2 or 3 what's it going to be like in 2 or 3 years? Uncertainty." The reality is for years? Uncertainty." The reality is for years? Uncertainty." The reality is for most of human cer- history, the the most of human cer- history, the the most of human cer- history, the the uncertainty was, "Where am I going to uncertainty was, "Where am I going to uncertainty was, "Where am I going to get my next meal? Oh, that neighboring get my next meal? Oh, that neighboring get my next meal? Oh, that neighboring tribe wants to come and kill us. Oh my, tribe wants to come and kill us. Oh my, tribe wants to come and kill us. Oh my, you know, my child's probably not going you know, my child's probably not going you know, my child's probably not going to live until they're 5 years old." Now, to live until they're 5 years old." Now, to live until they're 5 years old." Now, uh most of those things aren't our uh most of those things aren't our uh most of those things aren't our concerns. Most, you know, and especially concerns. Most, you know, and especially concerns. Most, you know, and especially in most of the developed world, we're in most of the developed world, we're in most of the developed world, we're not afraid of, you know, feeding not afraid of, you know, feeding not afraid of, you know, feeding ourselves or um and and they are these ourselves or um and and they are these ourselves or um and and they are these more meta-level things of human purpose more meta-level things of human purpose more meta-level things of human purpose and what's that AI going to be able to and what's that AI going to be able to and what's that AI going to be able to do. But it it will to some degree a a do. But it it will to some degree a a do. But it it will to some degree a a society in which, even if you have society in which, even if you have society in which, even if you have uncertainty around your crop or where uncertainty around your crop or where uncertainty around your crop or where you're going to go find the next food to you're going to go find the next food to you're going to go find the next food to to, you know, hunt and gather or to, you know, hunt and gather or to, you know, hunt and gather or whatever, at least you have certainty whatever, at least you have certainty whatever, at least you have certainty about your place in it. You have certain about your place in it. You have certain about your place in it. You have certain certainty of like, "Oh, and and religion certainty of like, "Oh, and and religion certainty of like, "Oh, and and religion can provide some of that framework, can provide some of that framework, can provide some of that framework, cultural traditions, just cultural traditions, just cultural traditions, just >> Yes, yes, yes.

>> Yes, yes, yes. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> where you fit in." >> where you fit in." >> where you fit in." >> rituals >> rituals >> rituals >> Rituals, and I think >> Rituals, and I think >> Rituals, and I think that's the scary thing is that we don't that's the scary thing is that we don't that's the scary thing is that we don't know what what our place is going to be know what what our place is going to be know what what our place is going to be in this world. And what excites me, in this world. And what excites me, in this world. And what excites me, though, is though, is though, is um it it's an opportunity to build, um it it's an opportunity to build, um it it's an opportunity to build, rebuild, you know, maybe resurrect some rebuild, you know, maybe resurrect some rebuild, you know, maybe resurrect some of these things that have been in of these things that have been in of these things that have been in throughout our history and we we realize throughout our history and we we realize throughout our history and we we realize we need it, religion, rituals, other we need it, religion, rituals, other we need it, religion, rituals, other forms of connection, cultural forms of connection, cultural forms of connection, cultural relationships. relationships. relationships. We're going to have even more abundance We're going to have even more abundance We're going to have even more abundance in terms of people serious people are in terms of people serious people are in terms of people serious people are talking about diseases being cured and talking about diseases being cured and talking about diseases being cured and understanding the cosmos and understanding the cosmos and understanding the cosmos and breakthroughs in science. Incredibly breakthroughs in science. Incredibly breakthroughs in science. Incredibly exciting. Um exciting. Um exciting. Um >> But they are all human plus AI, right? >> But they are all human plus AI, right? >> But they are all human plus AI, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that it's it's at point we what >> I think that it's it's at point we what >> I think that it's it's at point we what needs to shift is the human versus AI needs to shift is the human versus AI needs to shift is the human versus AI has to become the human plus. has to become the human plus. has to become the human plus. There is something in the power of these There is something in the power of these There is something in the power of these two there's something about a thing that two there's something about a thing that two there's something about a thing that augments me. I mean, you know, if I can augments me. I mean, you know, if I can augments me. I mean, you know, if I can call you soon. I mean, I remember the call you soon. I mean, I remember the call you soon. I mean, I remember the the facts of the first the facts of the first the facts of the first first mobile it's like and I was all the first mobile it's like and I was all the first mobile it's like and I was all the time excited about the the rapidity the time excited about the the rapidity the time excited about the the rapidity the speed with which I was going to go be speed with which I was going to go be speed with which I was going to go be able to communicate with people who are able to communicate with people who are able to communicate with people who are far away.

far away. far away. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. We got time for one more. >> All right. We got time for one more. >> All right. We got time for one more. >> All right. Okay, I'm going to you know >> All right. Okay, I'm going to you know >> All right. Okay, I'm going to you know what? Read because we want one that what? Read because we want one that what? Read because we want one that takes us a little bit in a different takes us a little bit in a different takes us a little bit in a different direction. What do we still have to direction. What do we still have to direction. What do we still have to learn as humans? A ton. learn as humans? A ton. learn as humans? A ton. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Man, we are just >> Man, we are just >> Man, we are just are we actually getting better at living are we actually getting better at living are we actually getting better at living or just better at optimizing? I think it or just better at optimizing? I think it or just better at optimizing? I think it that is probably the best question. that is probably the best question. that is probably the best question. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because when I look at love and AI >> Because when I look at love and AI >> Because when I look at love and AI I I think that we at this moment are I I think that we at this moment are I I think that we at this moment are optimizing intimacy into something that optimizing intimacy into something that optimizing intimacy into something that is manageable, measurable, and is manageable, measurable, and is manageable, measurable, and disposable. disposable. disposable. And we have borrowed metrics and markets And we have borrowed metrics and markets And we have borrowed metrics and markets to love. to love. to love. This is one of the most incredible This is one of the most incredible This is one of the most incredible things that because if there is things that because if there is things that because if there is something that has never been defined in something that has never been defined in something that has never been defined in data, it's love. data, it's love. data, it's love. It's it's not you know, it it's a It's it's not you know, it it's a It's it's not you know, it it's a feeling it's a condition it's a state feeling it's a condition it's a state feeling it's a condition it's a state it's an action it's a verb that you it's an action it's a verb that you it's an action it's a verb that you conjugate it's so many things. conjugate it's so many things. conjugate it's so many things. And uh And uh And uh are we getting better at living or are we getting better at living or are we getting better at living or better at optimizing? I think that from better at optimizing? I think that from better at optimizing? I think that from a relationship standpoint there is a relationship standpoint there is a relationship standpoint there is something really powerful and something really powerful and something really powerful and questioning or questionable for me in questioning or questionable for me in questioning or questionable for me in how much we're bringing a technological how much we're bringing a technological how much we're bringing a technological approach approach approach to relational dilemmas when relational to relational dilemmas when relational to relational dilemmas when relational dilemmas are often not problems that you dilemmas are often not problems that you dilemmas are often not problems that you solve but paradoxes that you manage.

solve but paradoxes that you manage. solve but paradoxes that you manage. >> I represent. I you know, I think >> I represent. I you know, I think >> I represent. I you know, I think I think we're hopefully transitioning I think we're hopefully transitioning I think we're hopefully transitioning from an optimization state to a thriving from an optimization state to a thriving from an optimization state to a thriving state. My gut said state. My gut said state. My gut said >> How do you know that? >> How do you know that? >> How do you know that? >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, for for decades now and I you know, as a for for decades now and I you know, as a for for decades now and I you know, as a as a child of the 80s, we all Gordon as a child of the 80s, we all Gordon as a child of the 80s, we all Gordon Gekko on Wall Street famously said greed Gekko on Wall Street famously said greed Gekko on Wall Street famously said greed is good. is good. is good. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Capitalism won the Cold War. >> Capitalism won the Cold War. >> Capitalism won the Cold War. Um, you know, we we all fixate on GDP, Um, you know, we we all fixate on GDP, Um, you know, we we all fixate on GDP, where the stock market is going. And you where the stock market is going. And you where the stock market is going. And you know, I used to I used to be a hedge know, I used to I used to be a hedge know, I used to I used to be a hedge fund analyst for before I did Khan fund analyst for before I did Khan fund analyst for before I did Khan Academy. And and you see that people are Academy. And and you see that people are Academy. And and you see that people are optimizing they're optimizing around the optimizing they're optimizing around the optimizing they're optimizing around the things that they can measure, which are things that they can measure, which are things that they can measure, which are the which is often times money or some the which is often times money or some the which is often times money or some other measurable thing. And it's not other measurable thing. And it's not other measurable thing. And it's not that those are that those are that those are >> From a relationship standpoint >> From a relationship standpoint >> From a relationship standpoint >> Oh, yeah, those are >> Oh, yeah, those are >> Oh, yeah, those are >> The met optimizing is when people >> The met optimizing is when people >> The met optimizing is when people embrace romantic consumerism. embrace romantic consumerism. embrace romantic consumerism. >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, yes. >> When they commodify each other and they >> When they commodify each other and they >> When they commodify each other and they go with a shopping list looking for a go with a shopping list looking for a go with a shopping list looking for a life partner. That's an optimization. life partner. That's an optimization. life partner. That's an optimization. >> That is an optimization. >> That is an optimization. >> That is an optimization. >> That's not money-based. >> That's not money-based. >> That's not money-based. >> But I think it comes from this it's a >> But I think it comes from this it's a >> But I think it comes from this it's a very similar very similar very similar >> is capitalism. Emotional capitalism.

>> is capitalism. Emotional capitalism. >> is capitalism. Emotional capitalism. >> It's the same what is my return on >> It's the same what is my return on >> It's the same what is my return on investment? investment? investment? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I'm going to put this in and I need to >> I'm going to put this in and I need to >> I'm going to put this in and I need to maximize what I get out. It's the exact maximize what I get out. It's the exact maximize what I get out. It's the exact But I think it's all related culture. But I think it's all related culture. But I think it's all related culture. I think we're start starting to get into I think we're start starting to get into I think we're start starting to get into a phase now. You know, I have many a phase now. You know, I have many a phase now. You know, I have many people in my circle who have done very people in my circle who have done very people in my circle who have done very well on some of those optimizations. At well on some of those optimizations. At well on some of those optimizations. At least say the the monetary optimization. least say the the monetary optimization. least say the the monetary optimization. And they're realizing that yes, if And they're realizing that yes, if And they're realizing that yes, if you're barely getting by and you're you're barely getting by and you're you're barely getting by and you're stressed about it that those first few stressed about it that those first few stressed about it that those first few dollars have a lot of incremental dollars have a lot of incremental dollars have a lot of incremental benefit to you. But beyond a certain benefit to you. But beyond a certain benefit to you. But beyond a certain point and most people are probably point and most people are probably point and most people are probably further than they realize. further than they realize. further than they realize. >> Incremental benefit is a bit of an >> Incremental benefit is a bit of an >> Incremental benefit is a bit of an abstract concept for something that abstract concept for something that abstract concept for something that gives people gives people gives people survival and ability to care for their survival and ability to care for their survival and ability to care for their >> Well, well, that's huge. Well, well, >> Well, well, that's huge. Well, well, >> Well, well, that's huge. Well, well, that's what I'm saying. It's a huge that's what I'm saying. It's a huge that's what I'm saying. It's a huge benefit early on, but at some point it's benefit early on, but at some point it's benefit early on, but at some point it's a it's a it's a smaller and smaller. And a it's a it's a smaller and smaller. And a it's a it's a smaller and smaller. And but they but they're just used to but they but they're just used to but they but they're just used to optimizing for that. And as you point optimizing for that. And as you point optimizing for that. And as you point they they might take that same mentality they they might take that same mentality they they might take that same mentality and optimize for their relationships and and optimize for their relationships and and optimize for their relationships and then be frustrated that they're They're then be frustrated that they're They're then be frustrated that they're They're thriving because their relationships are thriving because their relationships are thriving because their relationships are either they never find that perfect either they never find that perfect either they never find that perfect optimization or they don't. optimization or they don't. optimization or they don't. >> Or they're looking for the perfect and >> Or they're looking for the perfect and >> Or they're looking for the perfect and they don't they they resist the good they don't they they resist the good they don't they they resist the good because they're looking for the perfect.

because they're looking for the perfect. because they're looking for the perfect. Is can I do better? Can I do better? How Is can I do better? Can I do better? How Is can I do better? Can I do better? How much more can I get? And many in fact it much more can I get? And many in fact it much more can I get? And many in fact it is the greed transposed to can I do is the greed transposed to can I do is the greed transposed to can I do better you know with my hacking? Can I better you know with my hacking? Can I better you know with my hacking? Can I do better with who I'm living with? Can do better with who I'm living with? Can do better with who I'm living with? Can I do better on my dating? Can I do better on my dating? Can I do better on my dating? Can >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> It's It is emotional capitalism 101. >> It's It is emotional capitalism 101. >> It's It is emotional capitalism 101. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I never thought about it that way, but >> I never thought about it that way, but >> I never thought about it that way, but you're right. you're right. you're right. >> You know, I mean what is the fascinating >> You know, I mean what is the fascinating >> You know, I mean what is the fascinating is how the emotional realm, the is how the emotional realm, the is how the emotional realm, the psychological realm has entered the psychological realm has entered the psychological realm has entered the business world. business world. business world. And we talk about And we talk about And we talk about safety and trust at the same safety and trust at the same safety and trust at the same conversation as we talk about conversation as we talk about conversation as we talk about performance indicators. And we talk performance indicators. And we talk performance indicators. And we talk about vulnerability and all of these about vulnerability and all of these about vulnerability and all of these things. There's a whole vocabulary that things. There's a whole vocabulary that things. There's a whole vocabulary that has entered the workplace. has entered the workplace. has entered the workplace. But the same thing has happened from the But the same thing has happened from the But the same thing has happened from the workplace and the business world into workplace and the business world into workplace and the business world into our intimate lives. Return on our intimate lives. Return on our intimate lives. Return on investment, hedging your bets. You know, investment, hedging your bets. You know, investment, hedging your bets. You know, what's the deal we're going to strike? what's the deal we're going to strike? what's the deal we're going to strike? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's going to happen when we break up What's going to happen when we break up What's going to happen when we break up cuz we're we're going to break up cuz we're we're going to break up cuz we're we're going to break up eventually, you know? eventually, you know? eventually, you know? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's not till It's not till we die, it's >> It's not till It's not till we die, it's >> It's not till It's not till we die, it's till love dies.

till love dies. till love dies. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> You know. >> You know. >> You know. >> But hopefully that's changing. I think >> But hopefully that's changing. I think >> But hopefully that's changing. I think we are seeing and this goes back to I we are seeing and this goes back to I we are seeing and this goes back to I think you're going to see spirituality think you're going to see spirituality think you're going to see spirituality and adjacent things to spirituality. and adjacent things to spirituality. and adjacent things to spirituality. People hopefully invest more in each People hopefully invest more in each People hopefully invest more in each other and hopefully we we get back to other and hopefully we we get back to other and hopefully we we get back to thriving. thriving. thriving. >> You're optimistic. >> You're optimistic. >> You're optimistic. >> I I'm Yeah. >> I I'm Yeah. >> I I'm Yeah. >> I mean I'll join you. >> I mean I'll join you. >> I mean I'll join you. >> I >> I >> I I'm hope to mystic. I'm hope to mystic. I'm hope to mystic. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> That's I like that. I like that. >> That's I like that. I like that. >> That's I like that. I like that. I'll join you on the train of hope. I'll join you on the train of hope. I'll join you on the train of hope. >> Let's do it.