The Secret to Deeper Conversations | TED Intersections

going through life with a willingness to going through life with a willingness to ask more questions than you make ask more questions than you make ask more questions than you make statements. statements. statements. >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after the question is your responsibility. the question is your responsibility. the question is your responsibility. Your responsibility is have the Your responsibility is have the Your responsibility is have the curiosity, the integrity, the curiosity, the integrity, the curiosity, the integrity, the thoughtfulness, and the humility to ask thoughtfulness, and the humility to ask thoughtfulness, and the humility to ask what's on your mind and not bite your what's on your mind and not bite your what's on your mind and not bite your tongue because well, it might be tongue because well, it might be tongue because well, it might be uncomfortable. Well, what are they going uncomfortable. Well, what are they going uncomfortable. Well, what are they going to say? Let that be their [music] to say? Let that be their [music] to say? Let that be their [music] problem. What if we shuffle the deck? What if we shuffle the deck? >> I'm fine with that. >> I'm fine with that. >> I'm fine with that. >> All right. [laughter] >> All right. [laughter] >> All right. [laughter] Okay. Deck. Duly shuffled. Okay. Deck. Duly shuffled. Okay. Deck. Duly shuffled. >> Okay. You go first now. >> Okay. You go first now. >> Okay. You go first now. >> All right. So I can own what I've done. >> All right. So I can own what I've done. >> All right. So I can own what I've done. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> All right. First question. Are we losing >> All right. First question. Are we losing >> All right. First question. Are we losing the ability to have real conversations? the ability to have real conversations? the ability to have real conversations? H I I don't think so. Actually, I think H I I don't think so. Actually, I think H I I don't think so. Actually, I think that that that with everything that's going on from a with everything that's going on from a with everything that's going on from a technical perspective, we are at least technical perspective, we are at least technical perspective, we are at least in my friend group, I'm finding that in my friend group, I'm finding that in my friend group, I'm finding that people are yearning for more and more uh people are yearning for more and more uh people are yearning for more and more uh intimacy, vulnerability, intimacy, vulnerability, intimacy, vulnerability, you know, dinner parties. Like I'm I'm you know, dinner parties. Like I'm I'm you know, dinner parties. Like I'm I'm feeling a pendulum shift back um because feeling a pendulum shift back um because feeling a pendulum shift back um because I feel like people have been so I feel like people have been so I feel like people have been so digitally focused for so long. And um digitally focused for so long. And um digitally focused for so long. And um no, I I don't feel that way at all.

no, I I don't feel that way at all. no, I I don't feel that way at all. >> I get that. And I think the pendulum is >> I get that. And I think the pendulum is >> I get that. And I think the pendulum is definitely shifting. I guess when I read definitely shifting. I guess when I read definitely shifting. I guess when I read this, the editor in me is like, well, this, the editor in me is like, well, this, the editor in me is like, well, what do you mean by real? what do you mean by real? what do you mean by real? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I think for some folks, just being >> So, I think for some folks, just being >> So, I think for some folks, just being able to like text you when they're able to like text you when they're able to like text you when they're freaking out and just have that little freaking out and just have that little freaking out and just have that little human conversation is real connectively human conversation is real connectively human conversation is real connectively because it sort of paves the way because it sort of paves the way because it sort of paves the way >> for a more open conversation. Some >> for a more open conversation. Some >> for a more open conversation. Some people aren't ready to have like the eye people aren't ready to have like the eye people aren't ready to have like the eye to eye face to face like conversation, to eye face to face like conversation, to eye face to face like conversation, but they could chat you up all day on but they could chat you up all day on but they could chat you up all day on WhatsApp and that's about as real as WhatsApp and that's about as real as WhatsApp and that's about as real as they can get. And I I don't know, but I they can get. And I I don't know, but I they can get. And I I don't know, but I I suspect some people kind of need to be I suspect some people kind of need to be I suspect some people kind of need to be walked from digital and virtual into walked from digital and virtual into walked from digital and virtual into real world into real space, real time. real world into real space, real time. real world into real space, real time. And maybe that's what's a real And maybe that's what's a real And maybe that's what's a real conversation for them. kind of pulls conversation for them. kind of pulls conversation for them. kind of pulls them towards something else, you know. them towards something else, you know. them towards something else, you know. >> Yeah. And also I was just thinking I'm >> Yeah. And also I was just thinking I'm >> Yeah. And also I was just thinking I'm probably um you know more exposed to probably um you know more exposed to probably um you know more exposed to that because most of the work I do is in that because most of the work I do is in that because most of the work I do is in mental health now and so most of the mental health now and so most of the mental health now and so most of the people I'm talking to is about their people I'm talking to is about their people I'm talking to is about their mental health and they're opening up mental health and they're opening up mental health and they're opening up about their mental health journeys and about their mental health journeys and about their mental health journeys and so I'm kind of predisposed to a lot of so I'm kind of predisposed to a lot of so I'm kind of predisposed to a lot of very vulnerable, very honest, very raw very vulnerable, very honest, very raw very vulnerable, very honest, very raw conversations, probably more than the conversations, probably more than the conversations, probably more than the general population. I imagine as some general population. I imagine as some general population. I imagine as some people start to have those people start to have those people start to have those conversations, their capacity for it conversations, their capacity for it conversations, their capacity for it grows and maybe their desire for it.

grows and maybe their desire for it. grows and maybe their desire for it. Like once you get the benefit of like, Like once you get the benefit of like, Like once you get the benefit of like, oh, that's what that was. Then you want oh, that's what that was. Then you want oh, that's what that was. Then you want more of it, more of it, more of it, >> right? You want more of it and you find >> right? You want more of it and you find >> right? You want more of it and you find a facility with it. a facility with it. a facility with it. >> For liability purposes, I'm going to >> For liability purposes, I'm going to >> For liability purposes, I'm going to start with a gentle start with a gentle start with a gentle swish and flick. swish and flick. swish and flick. >> Okay. Okay. This is good. So many men >> Okay. Okay. This is good. So many men >> Okay. Okay. This is good. So many men feel lonier than ever and don't know how feel lonier than ever and don't know how feel lonier than ever and don't know how to talk to one another. Where do they to talk to one another. Where do they to talk to one another. Where do they start? start? start? [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] >> I think that they might have to start >> I think that they might have to start >> I think that they might have to start inward because if you're not comfortable inward because if you're not comfortable inward because if you're not comfortable saying, "Hey man, I'm not sure how to saying, "Hey man, I'm not sure how to saying, "Hey man, I'm not sure how to like connect other people." like connect other people." like connect other people." >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That's a level of exposure I'm not sure >> That's a level of exposure I'm not sure >> That's a level of exposure I'm not sure some guys are ready for. If you're some guys are ready for. If you're some guys are ready for. If you're already struggling to connect other already struggling to connect other already struggling to connect other people, I think for some men, maybe that people, I think for some men, maybe that people, I think for some men, maybe that first conversation needs to be in the first conversation needs to be in the first conversation needs to be in the mirror mirror mirror >> and be like, "Look, this this is what my >> and be like, "Look, this this is what my >> and be like, "Look, this this is what my life is. There's no use kidding myself. life is. There's no use kidding myself. life is. There's no use kidding myself. Here's where I really am. This is what's Here's where I really am. This is what's Here's where I really am. This is what's happening. This is what my social life happening. This is what my social life happening. This is what my social life is like. This is what my romantic life is like. This is what my romantic life is like. This is what my romantic life is like. This is how I see myself. This is like. This is how I see myself. This is like. This is how I see myself. This is what I actually want. And figure out is what I actually want. And figure out is what I actually want. And figure out if I had more connection. What would if I had more connection. What would if I had more connection. What would that mean to me? What would a perfect that mean to me? What would a perfect that mean to me? What would a perfect day in my life look like if I had the day in my life look like if I had the day in my life look like if I had the connections I wanted connections I wanted connections I wanted >> rather than just, well, you should reach >> rather than just, well, you should reach >> rather than just, well, you should reach out more. You should be more connected.

out more. You should be more connected. out more. You should be more connected. >> Why? To what end? I think a lot of guys >> Why? To what end? I think a lot of guys >> Why? To what end? I think a lot of guys that I know anyway rebel against that that I know anyway rebel against that that I know anyway rebel against that because they're not sure like when because they're not sure like when because they're not sure like when you're done like when does when do I you're done like when does when do I you're done like when does when do I know if this works? Just kind of sitting know if this works? Just kind of sitting know if this works? Just kind of sitting in the discomfort and like okay am I am in the discomfort and like okay am I am in the discomfort and like okay am I am I social now? Like am I human now? It I social now? Like am I human now? It I social now? Like am I human now? It just feels too fuzzy. just feels too fuzzy. just feels too fuzzy. >> So maybe the first thing they need to do >> So maybe the first thing they need to do >> So maybe the first thing they need to do is get it clear in here so that they is get it clear in here so that they is get it clear in here so that they have a sense of agency when they're have a sense of agency when they're have a sense of agency when they're asked to go do something. and they can asked to go do something. and they can asked to go do something. and they can go that's not really what I'm looking go that's not really what I'm looking go that's not really what I'm looking for and mean it as opposed to do that. for and mean it as opposed to do that. for and mean it as opposed to do that. Like my goal is to make this change in Like my goal is to make this change in Like my goal is to make this change in my life that would look this way and my life that would look this way and my life that would look this way and that doesn't seem like it meets this that doesn't seem like it meets this that doesn't seem like it meets this goal so I'm going to pass a little more goal so I'm going to pass a little more goal so I'm going to pass a little more actively than just being kind of like actively than just being kind of like actively than just being kind of like blown sideways through. You should be blown sideways through. You should be blown sideways through. You should be more social for socializing sake. You more social for socializing sake. You more social for socializing sake. You know what I mean? know what I mean? know what I mean? >> Yeah. I mean I was thinking of it just >> Yeah. I mean I was thinking of it just >> Yeah. I mean I was thinking of it just like a more very practical tip. If like a more very practical tip. If like a more very practical tip. If someone is lonely and they don't know someone is lonely and they don't know someone is lonely and they don't know how to talk to another man, I think the how to talk to another man, I think the how to talk to another man, I think the the easiest thing is to invite someone the easiest thing is to invite someone the easiest thing is to invite someone to coffee and ask them about their life.

to coffee and ask them about their life. to coffee and ask them about their life. Because I find that if if someone is is Because I find that if if someone is is Because I find that if if someone is is hesitant or scared or doesn't know how hesitant or scared or doesn't know how hesitant or scared or doesn't know how to be vulnerable with another man, to be vulnerable with another man, to be vulnerable with another man, it's it's much easier if someone has it's it's much easier if someone has it's it's much easier if someone has gone first. And so, but if you really gone first. And so, but if you really gone first. And so, but if you really are feeling the need to do that, then by are feeling the need to do that, then by are feeling the need to do that, then by inviting someone to coffee, you know, inviting someone to coffee, you know, inviting someone to coffee, you know, ideally someone that you have been close ideally someone that you have been close ideally someone that you have been close to before and just saying, "Hey, I just to before and just saying, "Hey, I just to before and just saying, "Hey, I just want to check in like how's everything want to check in like how's everything want to check in like how's everything going in your life, that guy is most going in your life, that guy is most going in your life, that guy is most likely going to share and and and then likely going to share and and and then likely going to share and and and then that will make it easier for them you to that will make it easier for them you to that will make it easier for them you to share." So, I think it's a very much I share." So, I think it's a very much I share." So, I think it's a very much I guess I'm going to this question in a guess I'm going to this question in a guess I'm going to this question in a much more practical of someone's much more practical of someone's much more practical of someone's watching this right now. They're like, watching this right now. They're like, watching this right now. They're like, "Man, I feel like I don't have any good "Man, I feel like I don't have any good "Man, I feel like I don't have any good guy friendss anymore. I don't feel like guy friendss anymore. I don't feel like guy friendss anymore. I don't feel like I'm connected to my buddies at all." And I'm connected to my buddies at all." And I'm connected to my buddies at all." And actually, I have a a short little story actually, I have a a short little story actually, I have a a short little story about this, which is interesting, is I about this, which is interesting, is I about this, which is interesting, is I was on the way home for Thanksgiving and was on the way home for Thanksgiving and was on the way home for Thanksgiving and I went home and I and I was at the time, I went home and I and I was at the time, I went home and I and I was at the time, gosh, it was so 19 years ago, so I was gosh, it was so 19 years ago, so I was gosh, it was so 19 years ago, so I was like 29, 30 years old. And I said, "Dad, like 29, 30 years old. And I said, "Dad, like 29, 30 years old. And I said, "Dad, after Thanksgiving, can we go into the after Thanksgiving, can we go into the after Thanksgiving, can we go into the study and I want to interview you about study and I want to interview you about study and I want to interview you about your life?" My dad was like, "Okay." We your life?" My dad was like, "Okay." We your life?" My dad was like, "Okay." We were close. And so I asked my dad all were close. And so I asked my dad all were close. And so I asked my dad all these questions about his life and it these questions about his life and it these questions about his life and it was just a great experience. But at the was just a great experience. But at the was just a great experience. But at the end I asked him that final question. I end I asked him that final question. I end I asked him that final question. I said, 'Dad, I said, 'What is your if you said, 'Dad, I said, 'What is your if you said, 'Dad, I said, 'What is your if you have any regrets? And he said, Blake, he have any regrets? And he said, Blake, he have any regrets? And he said, Blake, he said, I do have one regret. I said, said, I do have one regret. I said, said, I do have one regret. I said, okay, what is it? He says, look, I your okay, what is it? He says, look, I your okay, what is it? He says, look, I your mom and I have had this beautiful mom and I have had this beautiful mom and I have had this beautiful marriage for now 37 years. You, your marriage for now 37 years. You, your marriage for now 37 years. You, your sister, your brother have turned out sister, your brother have turned out sister, your brother have turned out great. You're all doing different things great. You're all doing different things great. You're all doing different things and following your passion. I've had a

and following your passion. I've had a and following your passion. I've had a great, you know, I've loved my medical great, you know, I've loved my medical great, you know, I've loved my medical practice and and helping people. But um practice and and helping people. But um practice and and helping people. But um over the years I really lost touch with over the years I really lost touch with over the years I really lost touch with all my guy friends, you know, all my all my guy friends, you know, all my all my guy friends, you know, all my friends from college, all my friends friends from college, all my friends friends from college, all my friends from medical school. You know, I always from medical school. You know, I always from medical school. You know, I always just said no to the, you know, the just said no to the, you know, the just said no to the, you know, the weekend golf guys trips or the this or weekend golf guys trips or the this or weekend golf guys trips or the this or that because I was just so busy with you that because I was just so busy with you that because I was just so busy with you and your mom and my work. And now you and your mom and my work. And now you and your mom and my work. And now you guys are in college or out of the house. guys are in college or out of the house. guys are in college or out of the house. You know, I'm now getting close to You know, I'm now getting close to You know, I'm now getting close to retirement. And I love your mom, but I retirement. And I love your mom, but I retirement. And I love your mom, but I can't spend every moment with her. And can't spend every moment with her. And can't spend every moment with her. And so I don't really have anyone to hang so I don't really have anyone to hang so I don't really have anyone to hang out with and I'm lonely. And he said, out with and I'm lonely. And he said, out with and I'm lonely. And he said, "So don't make that mistake." And so I "So don't make that mistake." And so I "So don't make that mistake." And so I at that time I was 30 years old. I had at that time I was 30 years old. I had at that time I was 30 years old. I had just started Tom Shoes who were like two just started Tom Shoes who were like two just started Tom Shoes who were like two years old. And I wrote an email to my years old. And I wrote an email to my years old. And I wrote an email to my seven best friends. Couple of them for seven best friends. Couple of them for seven best friends. Couple of them for like college. Some were from newer like college. Some were from newer like college. Some were from newer friends in LA. And I said I told him the friends in LA. And I said I told him the friends in LA. And I said I told him the story and I said, "We can't have this story and I said, "We can't have this story and I said, "We can't have this happen to us. Let's do an annual trip happen to us. Let's do an annual trip happen to us. Let's do an annual trip every year." And so we started our first every year." And so we started our first every year." And so we started our first trip in 19 years ago and we're getting trip in 19 years ago and we're getting trip in 19 years ago and we're getting ready to have our 20th anniversary. ready to have our 20th anniversary. ready to have our 20th anniversary. >> Where'd you go? Where was the first >> Where'd you go? Where was the first >> Where'd you go? Where was the first trip?

trip? trip? >> First trip was a camping and fishing >> First trip was a camping and fishing >> First trip was a camping and fishing trip in Colorado. trip in Colorado. trip in Colorado. >> And uh and we've done one trip every >> And uh and we've done one trip every >> And uh and we've done one trip every single year for 19 years. The group is single year for 19 years. The group is single year for 19 years. The group is now 14 guys. We call it the rugged now 14 guys. We call it the rugged now 14 guys. We call it the rugged adventure club. It was rugged and then adventure club. It was rugged and then adventure club. It was rugged and then when I sold Tom's it became not so when I sold Tom's it became not so when I sold Tom's it became not so rugged, right? rugged, right? rugged, right? >> We started going to the Maldes and all >> We started going to the Maldes and all >> We started going to the Maldes and all these places. these places. these places. >> You can't call it like the guys who >> You can't call it like the guys who >> You can't call it like the guys who glam. [laughter] glam. [laughter] glam. [laughter] >> Exactly. But I I bring that I bring that >> Exactly. But I I bring that I bring that >> Exactly. But I I bring that I bring that up because, you know, it that group has up because, you know, it that group has up because, you know, it that group has taught me how to have really meaningful, taught me how to have really meaningful, taught me how to have really meaningful, deep relationships with men, which has deep relationships with men, which has deep relationships with men, which has had probably as big of an impact on my had probably as big of an impact on my had probably as big of an impact on my mental health as anything else. mental health as anything else. mental health as anything else. >> I love that story because your dad had >> I love that story because your dad had >> I love that story because your dad had the presence of mind and the the presence of mind and the the presence of mind and the the willingness to be vulnerable with the willingness to be vulnerable with the willingness to be vulnerable with his regrets. his regrets. his regrets. Can I tell you my version of that story? Can I tell you my version of that story? Can I tell you my version of that story? >> Sure, I'm here for it. >> Sure, I'm here for it. >> Sure, I'm here for it. >> I My father, you know, my father passed >> I My father, you know, my father passed >> I My father, you know, my father passed away last year and was ill for a very away last year and was ill for a very away last year and was ill for a very long time. His health like declined, long time. His health like declined, long time. His health like declined, declined, declined, declined for years.

declined, declined, declined for years. declined, declined, declined for years. And he and I were really quite aranged. And he and I were really quite aranged. And he and I were really quite aranged. The estrangement, you know, he and my The estrangement, you know, he and my The estrangement, you know, he and my mother divorced when I was five. The mother divorced when I was five. The mother divorced when I was five. The arangement deepened after I came out. arangement deepened after I came out. arangement deepened after I came out. And so it was just kind of like a And so it was just kind of like a And so it was just kind of like a process. And my father was a Jehovah's process. And my father was a Jehovah's process. And my father was a Jehovah's Witness. So it was just like one thing Witness. So it was just like one thing Witness. So it was just like one thing after another. Eventually, I kind of after another. Eventually, I kind of after another. Eventually, I kind of felt convicted and I was like, I need to felt convicted and I was like, I need to felt convicted and I was like, I need to keep trying to reach out. And I tried to keep trying to reach out. And I tried to keep trying to reach out. And I tried to reach out and tried to reach out. reach out and tried to reach out. reach out and tried to reach out. Finally, kind of in the last year of his Finally, kind of in the last year of his Finally, kind of in the last year of his life, he was really not doing well. And life, he was really not doing well. And life, he was really not doing well. And I thought, I need to like make time to I thought, I need to like make time to I thought, I need to like make time to fly home to Florida. fly home to Florida. fly home to Florida. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And just sit down and talk to the guy. >> And just sit down and talk to the guy. >> And just sit down and talk to the guy. >> And I said, "Dad, I want to do your oral >> And I said, "Dad, I want to do your oral >> And I said, "Dad, I want to do your oral history. history. history. >> I feel like I don't know you." >> I feel like I don't know you." >> I feel like I don't know you." >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Like not really know you. >> Like not really know you. >> Like not really know you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Made a special trip. Planned the whole >> Made a special trip. Planned the whole >> Made a special trip. Planned the whole thing. Dad, are we still going to do thing. Dad, are we still going to do thing. Dad, are we still going to do this? Yep. I'll see you in three days. this? Yep. I'll see you in three days. this? Yep. I'll see you in three days. Okay, cool. Flew down, checked in the Okay, cool. Flew down, checked in the Okay, cool. Flew down, checked in the hotel, got up the next day, went to hotel, got up the next day, went to hotel, got up the next day, went to visit my mom. Dad, are we still in? Yep. visit my mom. Dad, are we still in? Yep. visit my mom. Dad, are we still in? Yep. I'll see you two days. What? Another I'll see you two days. What? Another I'll see you two days. What? Another day, Dad. We do. Yep. Tomorrow. Do it. day, Dad. We do. Yep. Tomorrow. Do it. day, Dad. We do. Yep. Tomorrow. Do it. The morning comes and I call him. Okay, The morning comes and I call him. Okay, The morning comes and I call him. Okay, Dad. I'm ready to go. When should I come Dad. I'm ready to go. When should I come Dad. I'm ready to go. When should I come meet you?

meet you? meet you? You know, we've got time. I don't want you to put we've got time. I don't want you to put yourself out and like I'm not really yourself out and like I'm not really yourself out and like I'm not really feeling up to it. Like we'll don't worry feeling up to it. Like we'll don't worry feeling up to it. Like we'll don't worry about it, but we we've got time. It's about it, but we we've got time. It's about it, but we we've got time. It's like, Dad, I booked a flight for you. like, Dad, I booked a flight for you. like, Dad, I booked a flight for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I bought equipment. Like, I'm ready to >> I bought equipment. Like, I'm ready to >> I bought equipment. Like, I'm ready to do this now. Let you know what let next do this now. Let you know what let next do this now. Let you know what let next time you come down, let me know. time you come down, let me know. time you come down, let me know. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> We'll do it then. We've got time. >> We'll do it then. We've got time. >> We'll do it then. We've got time. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no. >> And in that moment, >> And in that moment, >> And in that moment, >> I decided, >> I decided, >> I decided, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I'm done. >> I'm done. >> I'm done. >> I'm not going to ask anymore. >> I'm not going to ask anymore. >> I'm not going to ask anymore. >> Yeah. I don't know what it was, >> Yeah. I don't know what it was, >> Yeah. I don't know what it was, >> but >> but >> but I think my father was unable to really I think my father was unable to really I think my father was unable to really process being a dad be beyond being a process being a dad be beyond being a process being a dad be beyond being a provider. provider. provider. >> And that human connection of like this >> And that human connection of like this >> And that human connection of like this is how to be a man. This is how to be a is how to be a man. This is how to be a is how to be a man. This is how to be a black man black man black man >> never quite clicked for him even after I >> never quite clicked for him even after I >> never quite clicked for him even after I became a storyteller. He knew I was a became a storyteller. He knew I was a became a storyteller. He knew I was a journalist, very proud of my work, journalist, very proud of my work, journalist, very proud of my work, >> but couldn't quite get like, "No, I >> but couldn't quite get like, "No, I >> but couldn't quite get like, "No, I don't need what you can provide for me.

don't need what you can provide for me. don't need what you can provide for me. I need you." I need you." I need you." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And when he passed, I was supposed to >> And when he passed, I was supposed to >> And when he passed, I was supposed to like write his obit. like write his obit. like write his obit. >> Still haven't. >> Still haven't. >> Still haven't. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I don't know what to write. >> Cuz I don't know what to write. >> Cuz I don't know what to write. >> Okay. So, this question is great. Um I'm >> Okay. So, this question is great. Um I'm >> Okay. So, this question is great. Um I'm assuming it's the one we're already assuming it's the one we're already assuming it's the one we're already having, but you tell me. What's the most having, but you tell me. What's the most having, but you tell me. What's the most transformational conversation you've transformational conversation you've transformational conversation you've ever had? ever had? ever had? >> Oh god, I had so many. I mean, I was an >> Oh god, I had so many. I mean, I was an >> Oh god, I had so many. I mean, I was an interviewer for a living, so I've had interviewer for a living, so I've had interviewer for a living, so I've had I've I've had way too many. I think the I've I've had way too many. I think the I've I've had way too many. I think the biggest collection of transformational biggest collection of transformational biggest collection of transformational conversations I ever had was when I was conversations I ever had was when I was conversations I ever had was when I was a national host on NPR. a national host on NPR. a national host on NPR. >> I got to interview Eric Holder, the >> I got to interview Eric Holder, the >> I got to interview Eric Holder, the former US Attorney General under uh former US Attorney General under uh former US Attorney General under uh Barack Obama, and I was really excited Barack Obama, and I was really excited Barack Obama, and I was really excited to interview him because it was one of to interview him because it was one of to interview him because it was one of the first like people of his echelon the first like people of his echelon the first like people of his echelon that I had ever talked to. I was really that I had ever talked to. I was really that I had ever talked to. I was really excited. Then after a while, like I excited. Then after a while, like I excited. Then after a while, like I could kind of hear my goofy family in could kind of hear my goofy family in could kind of hear my goofy family in the background cuz we're we're very the background cuz we're we're very the background cuz we're we're very we're not high flutin. We're not fancy we're not high flutin. We're not fancy we're not high flutin. We're not fancy people. Uh very together, but not like people. Uh very together, but not like people. Uh very together, but not like we don't put on airs and attitudes. And we don't put on airs and attitudes. And we don't put on airs and attitudes. And something about it felt weird, something about it felt weird, something about it felt weird, especially because I wasn't thinking especially because I wasn't thinking especially because I wasn't thinking anything about the guest after him. It anything about the guest after him. It anything about the guest after him. It was nobody famous.

was nobody famous. was nobody famous. >> And so I decided to like, okay, I'm just >> And so I decided to like, okay, I'm just >> And so I decided to like, okay, I'm just I'm just going to talk to him like he's I'm just going to talk to him like he's I'm just going to talk to him like he's any other guest. any other guest. any other guest. >> Invite him in. How's it going? Have a >> Invite him in. How's it going? Have a >> Invite him in. How's it going? Have a seat. Made comfortable. Very personable seat. Made comfortable. Very personable seat. Made comfortable. Very personable guy. easy to talk to. Segment starts, guy. easy to talk to. Segment starts, guy. easy to talk to. Segment starts, break comes, his assistant comes in to break comes, his assistant comes in to break comes, his assistant comes in to remind him, uh, sir, we're going to remind him, uh, sir, we're going to remind him, uh, sir, we're going to leave halfway through the next segment. leave halfway through the next segment. leave halfway through the next segment. We were going to play music and he was We were going to play music and he was We were going to play music and he was going to be able to slip out of the going to be able to slip out of the going to be able to slip out of the studio. He looks over his shoulder at studio. He looks over his shoulder at studio. He looks over his shoulder at his assistant and is like, his assistant and is like, his assistant and is like, I think we can stay a few more minutes. I think we can stay a few more minutes. I think we can stay a few more minutes. Extended the interview on the spot. Extended the interview on the spot. Extended the interview on the spot. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Cuz he was having a good time. >> Cuz he was having a good time. >> Cuz he was having a good time. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I was, you know, smelling myself for >> And I was, you know, smelling myself for >> And I was, you know, smelling myself for a second. Like, that's right. that a second. Like, that's right. that a second. Like, that's right. that extended with me too. But then after it extended with me too. But then after it extended with me too. But then after it was over, I thought like, dang, that I was over, I thought like, dang, that I was over, I thought like, dang, that I made the right choice. And from that, I made the right choice. And from that, I made the right choice. And from that, I kind of reframed the way that I deal kind of reframed the way that I deal kind of reframed the way that I deal with just about everybody. I mean, if with just about everybody. I mean, if with just about everybody. I mean, if you were going to treat every person you you were going to treat every person you you were going to treat every person you will ever meet for the rest of your life will ever meet for the rest of your life will ever meet for the rest of your life exactly the same, how would you treat exactly the same, how would you treat exactly the same, how would you treat them? M them? M them? M >> that's what that taught me is to be one >> that's what that taught me is to be one >> that's what that taught me is to be one person to set one standard. Raise or person to set one standard. Raise or person to set one standard. Raise or lower it. Some people you're going to lower it. Some people you're going to lower it. Some people you're going to embrace and some people are going to embrace and some people are going to embrace and some people are going to drive you up the wall. But it sort of drive you up the wall. But it sort of drive you up the wall. But it sort of made every interview that followed made every interview that followed made every interview that followed easier cuz I didn't have to calibrate easier cuz I didn't have to calibrate easier cuz I didn't have to calibrate myself. I could it it's like myself. I could it it's like myself. I could it it's like conversation no longer depended on conversation no longer depended on conversation no longer depended on anything around me. It depended on anything around me. It depended on anything around me. It depended on everything within me.

everything within me. everything within me. >> Like I know who I am as a person. I know >> Like I know who I am as a person. I know >> Like I know who I am as a person. I know what my values are. Mhm. what my values are. Mhm. what my values are. Mhm. >> I know how I want to be treated. That >> I know how I want to be treated. That >> I know how I want to be treated. That rule is golden for a reason. And I rule is golden for a reason. And I rule is golden for a reason. And I decided that's who I'm going to be. And decided that's who I'm going to be. And decided that's who I'm going to be. And if we don't vibe, that's cool. If we do, if we don't vibe, that's cool. If we do, if we don't vibe, that's cool. If we do, that's fine. But it just it made life so that's fine. But it just it made life so that's fine. But it just it made life so much easier. And it made the work much easier. And it made the work much easier. And it made the work easier. You're like, "This is me. Oh, we easier. You're like, "This is me. Oh, we easier. You're like, "This is me. Oh, we don't click. Okay, cool. That's cool. don't click. Okay, cool. That's cool. don't click. Okay, cool. That's cool. You get to be you. I get to be me. And You get to be you. I get to be me. And You get to be you. I get to be me. And we figure it out somewhere along the we figure it out somewhere along the we figure it out somewhere along the way." And through all of the ups and way." And through all of the ups and way." And through all of the ups and downs of talking to all kinds of downs of talking to all kinds of downs of talking to all kinds of different people, that was just like it different people, that was just like it different people, that was just like it just greased the wheels for the next just greased the wheels for the next just greased the wheels for the next three years of that work, it it was I three years of that work, it it was I three years of that work, it it was I I'm amazed I thought of it. I didn't I'm amazed I thought of it. I didn't I'm amazed I thought of it. I didn't know I was that bright. I'm glad I had know I was that bright. I'm glad I had know I was that bright. I'm glad I had that burst of insight cuz it made life that burst of insight cuz it made life that burst of insight cuz it made life so much simpler. So much simpler. so much simpler. So much simpler. so much simpler. So much simpler. >> I love that. I love that. Um, okay. So, >> I love that. I love that. Um, okay. So, >> I love that. I love that. Um, okay. So, for me, what's the most transformational for me, what's the most transformational for me, what's the most transformational conversation you ever had? It actually conversation you ever had? It actually conversation you ever had? It actually happened about a year ago um with my happened about a year ago um with my happened about a year ago um with my kids and I have an 11-year-old and an kids and I have an 11-year-old and an kids and I have an 11-year-old and an eight-year-old and um also a 31-year-old eight-year-old and um also a 31-year-old eight-year-old and um also a 31-year-old adopted son, but this was with the adopted son, but this was with the adopted son, but this was with the biological kids and um I they had seen, biological kids and um I they had seen, biological kids and um I they had seen, you know, and experienced me having a you know, and experienced me having a you know, and experienced me having a really me hard mental health crisis for really me hard mental health crisis for really me hard mental health crisis for about two years. I was in and out of about two years. I was in and out of about two years. I was in and out of treatment centers. I wasn't able to, you treatment centers. I wasn't able to, you treatment centers. I wasn't able to, you know, you know, kind of be there for know, you know, kind of be there for know, you know, kind of be there for them in the way that I was before. It them in the way that I was before. It them in the way that I was before. It was a really hard time. And then I was a really hard time. And then I was a really hard time. And then I started feeling better. I had some started feeling better. I had some started feeling better. I had some amazing healing experiences um amazing healing experiences um amazing healing experiences um especially around this core wound of not especially around this core wound of not especially around this core wound of not feeling enough. And as I started feeling

feeling enough. And as I started feeling feeling enough. And as I started feeling better um they could tell was really better um they could tell was really better um they could tell was really different. And now I spending a lot more different. And now I spending a lot more different. And now I spending a lot more time with them and and the conversation time with them and and the conversation time with them and and the conversation I had with them is one day my son said I had with them is one day my son said I had with them is one day my son said something about like what's different something about like what's different something about like what's different and you know and I or kind of like well and you know and I or kind of like well and you know and I or kind of like well why how do we know you're not going to why how do we know you're not going to why how do we know you're not going to feel bad again type thing like he was feel bad again type thing like he was feel bad again type thing like he was worried. I said summit because now I worried. I said summit because now I worried. I said summit because now I know that I'm enough just as I am. Not know that I'm enough just as I am. Not know that I'm enough just as I am. Not because of what I've done, not because because of what I've done, not because because of what I've done, not because of what I built, not because what of what I built, not because what of what I built, not because what everyone thinks of me, but just because everyone thinks of me, but just because everyone thinks of me, but just because I exist. And now that I know that, I I exist. And now that I know that, I I exist. And now that I know that, I think my life will always be different. think my life will always be different. think my life will always be different. And I and I saw him like, look, and it And I and I saw him like, look, and it And I and I saw him like, look, and it was the coolest thing because I then was the coolest thing because I then was the coolest thing because I then continued the conversation be like, and continued the conversation be like, and continued the conversation be like, and that extends to you and your sister, that extends to you and your sister, that extends to you and your sister, too. You guys are enough exactly as you too. You guys are enough exactly as you too. You guys are enough exactly as you are. You can, you know, you can try out are. You can, you know, you can try out are. You can, you know, you can try out for the water polo team. You can try to for the water polo team. You can try to for the water polo team. You can try to make good grades. You can try to, you make good grades. You can try to, you make good grades. You can try to, you know, do these things, but none of that know, do these things, but none of that know, do these things, but none of that is tied to your worth. I love you and is tied to your worth. I love you and is tied to your worth. I love you and your mom loves you and the world loves your mom loves you and the world loves your mom loves you and the world loves you and they always will just because you and they always will just because you and they always will just because you exist. And ever since then, I've you exist. And ever since then, I've you exist. And ever since then, I've seen a lightness in my kids and a seen a lightness in my kids and a seen a lightness in my kids and a connection in us that is so deep, so connection in us that is so deep, so connection in us that is so deep, so peaceful, and so much that at dinner peaceful, and so much that at dinner peaceful, and so much that at dinner every night now, we had this little every night now, we had this little every night now, we had this little ritual where we hold hands. And my ritual where we hold hands. And my ritual where we hold hands. And my 8-year-old, we start the youngest first, 8-year-old, we start the youngest first, 8-year-old, we start the youngest first, and she says, "I am enough." And looks and she says, "I am enough." And looks and she says, "I am enough." And looks around and then she looks at us, she around and then she looks at us, she around and then she looks at us, she goes, "You are enough." And she goes, goes, "You are enough." And she goes, goes, "You are enough." And she goes, "And we are enough." And then the next "And we are enough." And then the next "And we are enough." And then the next child does it, and then I do it. And and

child does it, and then I do it. And and child does it, and then I do it. And and that all came from that conversation. that all came from that conversation. that all came from that conversation. And I hadn't even thought about that And I hadn't even thought about that And I hadn't even thought about that till this. Yeah. But it was one of the till this. Yeah. But it was one of the till this. Yeah. But it was one of the probably the most important probably the most important probably the most important conversations of my life. conversations of my life. conversations of my life. >> Two questions I have to ask on that. >> Two questions I have to ask on that. >> Two questions I have to ask on that. When you said you saw a lightness in When you said you saw a lightness in When you said you saw a lightness in your kid, was there anything in your kid, was there anything in your kid, was there anything in particular that you were concerned about particular that you were concerned about particular that you were concerned about getting heavy for them? Like were there getting heavy for them? Like were there getting heavy for them? Like were there certain aspects of growing up that you certain aspects of growing up that you certain aspects of growing up that you thought they needed that message for? I thought they needed that message for? I thought they needed that message for? I think when when when someone does not think when when when someone does not think when when when someone does not feel enough, which I didn't for 48 years feel enough, which I didn't for 48 years feel enough, which I didn't for 48 years of my life, then I think you of my life, then I think you of my life, then I think you subconsciously subconsciously subconsciously project that on to others and especially project that on to others and especially project that on to others and especially parents to kids. So if a parent doesn't parents to kids. So if a parent doesn't parents to kids. So if a parent doesn't feel enough and doesn't have their own feel enough and doesn't have their own feel enough and doesn't have their own sense of worth outside their sense of worth outside their sense of worth outside their accomplishments, then you're you're accomplishments, then you're you're accomplishments, then you're you're projecting that pressure onto the kids. projecting that pressure onto the kids. projecting that pressure onto the kids. So I think my son was feeling like he So I think my son was feeling like he So I think my son was feeling like he had to become a great water polo player had to become a great water polo player had to become a great water polo player or had to be the star of the basketball or had to be the star of the basketball or had to be the star of the basketball team or had to make great grades or had team or had to make great grades or had team or had to make great grades or had to look a certain way because I felt to look a certain way because I felt to look a certain way because I felt that about myself. And so I never said that about myself. And so I never said that about myself. And so I never said that to him. that to him. that to him. >> But I have to say it but but I didn't >> But I have to say it but but I didn't >> But I have to say it but but I didn't have to say it. But as soon as I felt have to say it. But as soon as I felt have to say it. But as soon as I felt that I was enough and I said that to that I was enough and I said that to that I was enough and I said that to them, then I I saw him reduce the them, then I I saw him reduce the them, then I I saw him reduce the pressure he was putting on himself.

pressure he was putting on himself. pressure he was putting on himself. >> And my daughter still I think is has >> And my daughter still I think is has >> And my daughter still I think is has somewhere to grow in that because I somewhere to grow in that because I somewhere to grow in that because I still think she puts a lot of pressure still think she puts a lot of pressure still think she puts a lot of pressure on herself still. I mean, she's only on herself still. I mean, she's only on herself still. I mean, she's only eight, but but I I I I have seen that eight, but but I I I I have seen that eight, but but I I I I have seen that when we do the ritual at dinner, there's when we do the ritual at dinner, there's when we do the ritual at dinner, there's like a twinkle in their eye. There's a like a twinkle in their eye. There's a like a twinkle in their eye. There's a smile. There's a like, yeah, I am smile. There's a like, yeah, I am smile. There's a like, yeah, I am enough. And it's something it's a enough. And it's something it's a enough. And it's something it's a practice. It's not something like, oh, I practice. It's not something like, oh, I practice. It's not something like, oh, I experienced it once and now I have it experienced it once and now I have it experienced it once and now I have it forever. It's it's something that you forever. It's it's something that you forever. It's it's something that you have to continue to practice every day. have to continue to practice every day. have to continue to practice every day. You know, that's why I wear the You know, that's why I wear the You know, that's why I wear the bracelet. It's like my reminder every bracelet. It's like my reminder every bracelet. It's like my reminder every day of of that to come back to this day of of that to come back to this day of of that to come back to this centering. But that that conversation centering. But that that conversation centering. But that that conversation with the kids I think will be one that with the kids I think will be one that with the kids I think will be one that I'm I'm willing to bet any amount of I'm I'm willing to bet any amount of I'm I'm willing to bet any amount of money if they're sitting in these chairs money if they're sitting in these chairs money if they're sitting in these chairs someday that at least my son would say someday that at least my son would say someday that at least my son would say that was probably the most meaningful that was probably the most meaningful that was probably the most meaningful conversation. conversation. conversation. >> I see you have two of those bracelets >> I see you have two of those bracelets >> I see you have two of those bracelets and I feel like when you said enough I and I feel like when you said enough I and I feel like when you said enough I kind of kind of kind of >> you know why I have two. >> you know why I have two. >> you know why I have two. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> You'll see. >> You'll see. >> You'll see. >> So one of my favorite things to do it's >> So one of my favorite things to do it's >> So one of my favorite things to do it's not about wearing it yourself. It's not about wearing it yourself. It's not about wearing it yourself. It's about giving it to someone else. about giving it to someone else. about giving it to someone else. >> So I always wear an extra one. >> So I always wear an extra one. >> So I always wear an extra one. >> Oh. So if I ever feel like, okay, this >> Oh. So if I ever feel like, okay, this >> Oh. So if I ever feel like, okay, this is something I want to share with is something I want to share with is something I want to share with someone, which I do right now, I can someone, which I do right now, I can someone, which I do right now, I can give it. So hold out your hands, palm give it. So hold out your hands, palm give it. So hold out your hands, palm up.

up. up. >> There you go. And this says, you are >> There you go. And this says, you are >> There you go. And this says, you are enough on the inside. enough on the inside. enough on the inside. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> And then >> And then >> And then now you have one, too. now you have one, too. now you have one, too. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> I love it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you so much. When I saw this, I I >> Thank you so much. When I saw this, I I >> Thank you so much. When I saw this, I I kind of saw this with a period and also kind of saw this with a period and also kind of saw this with a period and also with an exclamation point. with an exclamation point. with an exclamation point. >> Give me both. like enough as sort of a >> Give me both. like enough as sort of a >> Give me both. like enough as sort of a >> as a a a checkary >> as a a a checkary >> as a a a checkary >> or enough like a relief almost. It's >> or enough like a relief almost. It's >> or enough like a relief almost. It's it's interesting you bring that up it's interesting you bring that up it's interesting you bring that up because I it was I originally made it we because I it was I originally made it we because I it was I originally made it we hand make them these women in India make hand make them these women in India make hand make them these women in India make them and we and that's where I had a them and we and that's where I had a them and we and that's where I had a bunch of my healing and originally it bunch of my healing and originally it bunch of my healing and originally it was more the I am enough a softness but was more the I am enough a softness but was more the I am enough a softness but I also think um in the climate that we I also think um in the climate that we I also think um in the climate that we live in today there's something also live in today there's something also live in today there's something also it's a real activist spirit you know so it's a real activist spirit you know so it's a real activist spirit you know so it's like enough like you know and and it's like enough like you know and and it's like enough like you know and and almost even like I think of like you almost even like I think of like you almost even like I think of like you know people who sometimes have been told know people who sometimes have been told know people who sometimes have been told their life that they're not smart enough their life that they're not smart enough their life that they're not smart enough or pretty enough or that they're, you or pretty enough or that they're, you or pretty enough or that they're, you know, going to amount to enough. It's know, going to amount to enough. It's know, going to amount to enough. It's like it's like it's almost like a [ __ ] like it's like it's almost like a [ __ ] like it's like it's almost like a [ __ ] you to all the people who said you you to all the people who said you you to all the people who said you couldn't do it that you are enough and couldn't do it that you are enough and couldn't do it that you are enough and you don't need their validation.

you don't need their validation. you don't need their validation. >> I love it. Thank you for this. >> I love it. Thank you for this. >> I love it. Thank you for this. >> Okay. It's like, >> Okay. It's like, >> Okay. It's like, >> oh, >> oh, >> oh, >> where did that go? >> If you could redesign how people connect >> If you could redesign how people connect with each other, where would you start? >> If I could re you went somewhere. Where >> If I could re you went somewhere. Where did you go? did you go? did you go? >> This is exactly where I [laughter] went. >> This is exactly where I [laughter] went. >> This is exactly where I [laughter] went. I went to Avatar. I went to Avatar. I went to Avatar. >> I knew there was something specific. >> I knew there was something specific. >> I knew there was something specific. >> And Pandora. And if you've watched >> And Pandora. And if you've watched >> And Pandora. And if you've watched Avatar, when the um Avatar gets on the Avatar, when the um Avatar gets on the Avatar, when the um Avatar gets on the horse and they plug in the hair. horse and they plug in the hair. horse and they plug in the hair. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So that's where [laughter] I went. >> So that's where [laughter] I went. >> So that's where [laughter] I went. >> Well, they kind of like it. >> Well, they kind of like it. >> Well, they kind of like it. >> I was like, if I could design any way we >> I was like, if I could design any way we >> I was like, if I could design any way we connect, there'd be a some way that like connect, there'd be a some way that like connect, there'd be a some way that like when we shook hands, I transferred part when we shook hands, I transferred part when we shook hands, I transferred part of my consciousness to you. And so we of my consciousness to you. And so we of my consciousness to you. And so we connected in a nonverbal way and we connected in a nonverbal way and we connected in a nonverbal way and we could have conversation through touch could have conversation through touch could have conversation through touch without having to use our words.

without having to use our words. without having to use our words. >> That's where [laughter] I just went. >> That's where [laughter] I just went. >> That's where [laughter] I just went. >> I But you know, I get it. I get it. I >> I But you know, I get it. I get it. I >> I But you know, I get it. I get it. I knew you saw something specific. I could knew you saw something specific. I could knew you saw something specific. I could see your eyes move behind your eyebrow. see your eyes move behind your eyebrow. see your eyes move behind your eyebrow. >> If I could redesign how people connect, >> If I could redesign how people connect, >> If I could redesign how people connect, I would make it an educational I would make it an educational I would make it an educational prerequisite. I would put it in the prerequisite. I would put it in the prerequisite. I would put it in the schools schools schools >> because that's within our power. >> because that's within our power. >> because that's within our power. >> Yeah. I would put listening, >> Yeah. I would put listening, >> Yeah. I would put listening, communication, and critical thinking as communication, and critical thinking as communication, and critical thinking as a high school graduation requirement. a high school graduation requirement. a high school graduation requirement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I would make it uh I would make it a >> I would make it uh I would make it a >> I would make it uh I would make it a common core standard. common core standard. common core standard. >> I would put it in the common core. >> I would put it in the common core. >> I would put it in the common core. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that, you know, especially >> I think that, you know, especially >> I think that, you know, especially because when you're little, like because when you're little, like because when you're little, like >> kids got great questions. >> kids got great questions. >> kids got great questions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Kids are are builtin like question >> Kids are are builtin like question >> Kids are are builtin like question asker, you know, idea finder routers and asker, you know, idea finder routers and asker, you know, idea finder routers and they're heristic learning machines. and they're heristic learning machines. and they're heristic learning machines. and they just love to like they will they they just love to like they will they they just love to like they will they they'll pepper you with a million they'll pepper you with a million they'll pepper you with a million questions. But that's exactly where like questions. But that's exactly where like questions. But that's exactly where like as a living thing your first job is to as a living thing your first job is to as a living thing your first job is to connect. The first thing a baby does is connect. The first thing a baby does is connect. The first thing a baby does is connect with its mother. connect with its mother. connect with its mother. >> And so like connection is our lifeblood. >> And so like connection is our lifeblood. >> And so like connection is our lifeblood. And I think if you start real young And I think if you start real young And I think if you start real young >> I mean I did speech debate in middle >> I mean I did speech debate in middle >> I mean I did speech debate in middle high school.

high school. high school. >> Best skill set I ever learned more than >> Best skill set I ever learned more than >> Best skill set I ever learned more than much as I use math and science, writing, much as I use math and science, writing, much as I use math and science, writing, social studies, the best skill set I social studies, the best skill set I social studies, the best skill set I ever learned was how to communicate with ever learned was how to communicate with ever learned was how to communicate with other people because that's how you other people because that's how you other people because that's how you connect. connect. connect. every piece of the social crisis we see every piece of the social crisis we see every piece of the social crisis we see with young people and know computers and with young people and know computers and with young people and know computers and AI and Tik Tok and it all comes back to AI and Tik Tok and it all comes back to AI and Tik Tok and it all comes back to human connection. They're trying to human connection. They're trying to human connection. They're trying to connect, but you can't do it, connect, but you can't do it, connect, but you can't do it, >> you know, 14 seconds at a time. >> you know, 14 seconds at a time. >> you know, 14 seconds at a time. >> You got to sort of invest in it. >> You got to sort of invest in it. >> You got to sort of invest in it. >> And I think >> And I think >> And I think >> kids are sort of crying out for it. They >> kids are sort of crying out for it. They >> kids are sort of crying out for it. They know something's wrong. They know that know something's wrong. They know that know something's wrong. They know that their parents and grandparents did not their parents and grandparents did not their parents and grandparents did not go through this, but they don't know why go through this, but they don't know why go through this, but they don't know why they have to. they have to. they have to. >> They're aware of what's happening. And I >> They're aware of what's happening. And I >> They're aware of what's happening. And I think frankly are already starting to think frankly are already starting to think frankly are already starting to get a little scared about it. I read a get a little scared about it. I read a get a little scared about it. I read a study last week that said Gen Z is study last week that said Gen Z is study last week that said Gen Z is saving for retirement at higher rates saving for retirement at higher rates saving for retirement at higher rates than baby boomers did at their age. than baby boomers did at their age. than baby boomers did at their age. >> So they're aware the world is not built >> So they're aware the world is not built >> So they're aware the world is not built for them right now. And they're going to for them right now. And they're going to for them right now. And they're going to want to find solace in one another. want to find solace in one another. want to find solace in one another. >> I think if we teach kids to do it, >> I think if we teach kids to do it, >> I think if we teach kids to do it, >> they'll stick to it. They'll learn what >> they'll stick to it. They'll learn what >> they'll stick to it. They'll learn what like appropriate conversations are, like appropriate conversations are, like appropriate conversations are, >> listening, investing in people, even eye >> listening, investing in people, even eye >> listening, investing in people, even eye contact.

contact. contact. >> Yeah. Like even just something as simple >> Yeah. Like even just something as simple >> Yeah. Like even just something as simple as like you and me being able to like as like you and me being able to like as like you and me being able to like look at each other and have the look at each other and have the look at each other and have the conversation and not feel like, conversation and not feel like, conversation and not feel like, >> you know, we're either staring each >> you know, we're either staring each >> you know, we're either staring each other down or like other down or like other down or like >> waiting for one of our heads to explode. >> waiting for one of our heads to explode. >> waiting for one of our heads to explode. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> That skill set for kids is just >> That skill set for kids is just >> That skill set for kids is just >> it revolutionizes what it's like to grow >> it revolutionizes what it's like to grow >> it revolutionizes what it's like to grow up up up >> and to become a citizen of the world. I >> and to become a citizen of the world. I >> and to become a citizen of the world. I would start by making it a common core would start by making it a common core would start by making it a common core standard and making it a high school standard and making it a high school standard and making it a high school requirement in schools. requirement in schools. requirement in schools. >> That's great. I love that. Now I'm going >> That's great. I love that. Now I'm going >> That's great. I love that. Now I'm going to throw it where I ain't supposed to to throw it where I ain't supposed to to throw it where I ain't supposed to throw it and see if it ends up where throw it and see if it ends up where throw it and see if it ends up where it's supposed to be. >> Oh, see that? See that? >> Oh, see that? See that? >> Okay, that was >> Okay, that was >> Okay, that was >> He sets you up for failure and you find >> He sets you up for failure and you find >> He sets you up for failure and you find success. success. success. >> Okay, we we only have two left. >> Okay, we we only have two left. >> Okay, we we only have two left. >> Here we go. >> Here we go. >> Here we go. >> But first, let's see the one you didn't >> But first, let's see the one you didn't >> But first, let's see the one you didn't pick. pick. pick. >> Okay, [laughter] >> Okay, [laughter] >> Okay, [laughter] >> tell you what, I'll ask you and you can >> tell you what, I'll ask you and you can >> tell you what, I'll ask you and you can put the answer in the comments. put the answer in the comments. put the answer in the comments. >> How about that? The one we didn't pick. >> How about that? The one we didn't pick. >> How about that? The one we didn't pick. When did you realize that strength and When did you realize that strength and When did you realize that strength and vulnerability were not opposites?

vulnerability were not opposites? vulnerability were not opposites? >> Put it in the comments. >> Put it in the comments. >> Put it in the comments. >> So, the last question today is, "What >> So, the last question today is, "What >> So, the last question today is, "What are some tips you have to help others are some tips you have to help others are some tips you have to help others have deeper conversations?" have deeper conversations?" have deeper conversations?" >> That is a perfect question to end on. I >> That is a perfect question to end on. I >> That is a perfect question to end on. I shuffled the deck and it landed the shuffled the deck and it landed the shuffled the deck and it landed the right way. right way. right way. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> Tips to have deeper conversations. >> Tips to have deeper conversations. >> Tips to have deeper conversations. >> Yes. Uhu. >> Yes. Uhu. >> Yes. Uhu. >> I would get really good at asking >> I would get really good at asking >> I would get really good at asking questions. And I'll give you one questions. And I'll give you one questions. And I'll give you one example. I used to be in uh public radio example. I used to be in uh public radio example. I used to be in uh public radio and when I started to get on the air and and when I started to get on the air and and when I started to get on the air and people noticed me, they would, it people noticed me, they would, it people noticed me, they would, it happened over and over. Oh, you're happened over and over. Oh, you're happened over and over. Oh, you're Joshua Johnson. I never would have Joshua Johnson. I never would have Joshua Johnson. I never would have guessed you were black [laughter] guessed you were black [laughter] guessed you were black [laughter] tall. I never would have thought you tall. I never would have thought you tall. I never would have thought you were so tall. You sound 3 foot n on the were so tall. You sound 3 foot n on the were so tall. You sound 3 foot n on the radio. Happened over and over and it radio. Happened over and over and it radio. Happened over and over and it used to make me crazy. And I finally used to make me crazy. And I finally used to make me crazy. And I finally figured out a simple twoword response figured out a simple twoword response figured out a simple twoword response that changed everything. When not those that changed everything. When not those that changed everything. When not those two words, when they would say, "I never two words, when they would say, "I never two words, when they would say, "I never would have guessed you were black." My would have guessed you were black." My would have guessed you were black." My response was, "Why not?" response was, "Why not?" response was, "Why not?" >> And pause. Yeah. >> And pause. Yeah. >> And pause. Yeah. >> And don't say anything. >> And don't say anything. >> And don't say anything. >> That's that's one of the one of my tips >> That's that's one of the one of my tips >> That's that's one of the one of my tips is going to be be very comfortable with is going to be be very comfortable with is going to be be very comfortable with silence.

silence. silence. >> Well, and here's the thing. What I >> Well, and here's the thing. What I >> Well, and here's the thing. What I finally learned was there's nothing I finally learned was there's nothing I finally learned was there's nothing I can say to you that will hurt more than can say to you that will hurt more than can say to you that will hurt more than what you will say to yourself. And when what you will say to yourself. And when what you will say to yourself. And when they reflect back to themselves why they they reflect back to themselves why they they reflect back to themselves why they actually said that, they went, "Oh my actually said that, they went, "Oh my actually said that, they went, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry." And I say, "It's god, I'm so sorry." And I say, "It's god, I'm so sorry." And I say, "It's okay, but now you know, and now you can okay, but now you know, and now you can okay, but now you know, and now you can decide if that's the person you want to decide if that's the person you want to decide if that's the person you want to be, but it's not my problem anymore. be, but it's not my problem anymore. be, but it's not my problem anymore. >> It's your problem." >> It's your problem." >> It's your problem." >> And that gave me peace. I could let it >> And that gave me peace. I could let it >> And that gave me peace. I could let it go. I didn't have to walk through life go. I didn't have to walk through life go. I didn't have to walk through life like, I can't believe these white like, I can't believe these white like, I can't believe these white people, the way they treat us, we ain't people, the way they treat us, we ain't people, the way they treat us, we ain't never going to ride. And I didn't have never going to ride. And I didn't have never going to ride. And I didn't have to like I it it was like babies don't to like I it it was like babies don't to like I it it was like babies don't sleep that well. And I think the right sleep that well. And I think the right sleep that well. And I think the right question plus the confidence to stand on question plus the confidence to stand on question plus the confidence to stand on the question the question the question and just let it sit whatever the and just let it sit whatever the and just let it sit whatever the response is. And so going through life response is. And so going through life response is. And so going through life with a willingness to ask more questions with a willingness to ask more questions with a willingness to ask more questions than you make statements. than you make statements. than you make statements. >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after >> Liberating. Nothing that happens after the question is your responsibility. the question is your responsibility. the question is your responsibility. Your responsibility is have the Your responsibility is have the Your responsibility is have the curiosity, the integrity, curiosity, the integrity, curiosity, the integrity, the perspacity, the thoughtfulness, and the perspacity, the thoughtfulness, and the perspacity, the thoughtfulness, and the humility to ask what's on your mind the humility to ask what's on your mind the humility to ask what's on your mind and not and not and not >> bite your tongue because, well, it might >> bite your tongue because, well, it might >> bite your tongue because, well, it might be uncomfortable. Well, what are they be uncomfortable. Well, what are they be uncomfortable. Well, what are they going to say? Let that be their problem.

going to say? Let that be their problem. going to say? Let that be their problem. >> I have a question for you. >> I have a question for you. >> I have a question for you. >> Is it okay if I ask? Or did you just >> Is it okay if I ask? Or did you just >> Is it okay if I ask? Or did you just need to be heard? Is it okay if I put need to be heard? Is it okay if I put need to be heard? Is it okay if I put this out there or is this is now not the this out there or is this is now not the this out there or is this is now not the good time? Okay, sure. Ask. say it and good time? Okay, sure. Ask. say it and good time? Okay, sure. Ask. say it and then stand on it makes life much much then stand on it makes life much much then stand on it makes life much much easier. easier. easier. >> Okay, great. I think that deep >> Okay, great. I think that deep >> Okay, great. I think that deep conversations require time. I think that conversations require time. I think that conversations require time. I think that if you really want to have a deep if you really want to have a deep if you really want to have a deep conversation, you need to have conversation, you need to have conversation, you need to have undistracted undistracted undistracted time, you know, and it's kind of a time, you know, and it's kind of a time, you know, and it's kind of a little bit of what you said around ask a little bit of what you said around ask a little bit of what you said around ask a question and then be comfortable being question and then be comfortable being question and then be comfortable being silent because it's in the pause where silent because it's in the pause where silent because it's in the pause where the the depth can come out. And I think the the depth can come out. And I think the the depth can come out. And I think that so much of our conversations with that so much of our conversations with that so much of our conversations with people, the reason why they're not deep people, the reason why they're not deep people, the reason why they're not deep is because we're always pressed for time is because we're always pressed for time is because we're always pressed for time and our attention is always scattered, and our attention is always scattered, and our attention is always scattered, >> right? And so in order to have deep >> right? And so in order to have deep >> right? And so in order to have deep conversations, that's why I love, you conversations, that's why I love, you conversations, that's why I love, you know, hosting this this podcast now know, hosting this this podcast now know, hosting this this podcast now because I know that the person has set because I know that the person has set because I know that the person has set aside two hours and I might only have an aside two hours and I might only have an aside two hours and I might only have an hour's worth of questions for him, but hour's worth of questions for him, but hour's worth of questions for him, but I'm not in any rush, you know, and so I'm not in any rush, you know, and so I'm not in any rush, you know, and so when I ask the question, I have plenty when I ask the question, I have plenty when I ask the question, I have plenty of time to allow them to go deeper. And of time to allow them to go deeper. And of time to allow them to go deeper. And then often also what you said I liked is then often also what you said I liked is then often also what you said I liked is like asking a clarifying question around like asking a clarifying question around like asking a clarifying question around the first question. So, not just jumping the first question. So, not just jumping the first question. So, not just jumping to the next question, but then asking a to the next question, but then asking a to the next question, but then asking a a question that helps them go deeper.

a question that helps them go deeper. a question that helps them go deeper. Um, and then sitting and having the Um, and then sitting and having the Um, and then sitting and having the time. So, I guess it really is about time. So, I guess it really is about time. So, I guess it really is about making sure that there's enough time for making sure that there's enough time for making sure that there's enough time for the person to go deep. the person to go deep. the person to go deep. >> Blake, thank you, sir. And thank you for >> Blake, thank you, sir. And thank you for >> Blake, thank you, sir. And thank you for this. This is fantastic. I really this. This is fantastic. I really this. This is fantastic. I really appreciate it. Ah, appreciate it. Ah, appreciate it. Ah, >> thank you so much. Good talk to you. >> thank you so much. Good talk to you. >> thank you so much. Good talk to you. Yep. Awesome.