How Algorithms Manipulate You (and How to Fight Back) | Idea Knock Down | TED

I've never played with such a big I've never played with such a big [music] set of blocks before. Oh, I love this question. That is a hard Oh, I love this question. That is a hard question. This is tense. question. This is tense. question. This is tense. This is tense. This is tense. This is tense. Oh, Oh, Oh, I'm going to cry answering this I'm going to cry answering this I'm going to cry answering this question. [music] Hi, I'm Jen Golbeck. I'm a computer Hi, I'm Jen Golbeck. I'm a computer scientist and an AI ethicist and I think scientist and an AI ethicist and I think scientist and an AI ethicist and I think [music] people need to hold power for [music] people need to hold power for [music] people need to hold power for democracy to work. democracy to work. democracy to work. >> My name is Shalini Kantayya. I'm a >> My name is Shalini Kantayya. I'm a >> My name is Shalini Kantayya. I'm a documentary filmmaker and a TED fellow documentary filmmaker and a TED fellow documentary filmmaker and a TED fellow and I make films about how technology and I make films about how technology and I make films about how technology impacts our humanity. impacts our humanity. impacts our humanity. >> Today we're playing idea knockdown. Red >> Today we're playing idea knockdown. Red >> Today we're playing idea knockdown. Red blocks are rapid fire questions and blocks are rapid fire questions and blocks are rapid fire questions and black blocks have questions that go a black blocks have questions that go a black blocks have questions that go a little deeper. Whoever knocks down the little deeper. Whoever knocks down the little deeper. Whoever knocks down the tower will have to do a mystery tower will have to do a mystery tower will have to do a mystery challenge. >> Have you ever felt manipulated by an >> Have you ever felt manipulated by an algorithm?

algorithm? algorithm? >> Wholeheartedly, yes. >> Wholeheartedly, yes. >> Wholeheartedly, yes. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> And and like I actually hate it more >> And and like I actually hate it more >> And and like I actually hate it more when it's right [music] cuz I'm like I when it's right [music] cuz I'm like I when it's right [music] cuz I'm like I do like that thing. Stop spying on me. do like that thing. Stop spying on me. do like that thing. Stop spying on me. >> I had a pair of yellow shoes that I >> I had a pair of yellow shoes that I >> I had a pair of yellow shoes that I didn't need and they just followed me didn't need and they just followed me didn't need and they just followed me everywhere [laughter] I went. everywhere [laughter] I went. everywhere [laughter] I went. >> So bad. Hmm. I'll try. >> So bad. Hmm. I'll try. >> So bad. Hmm. I'll try. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Don't get cocky. Oh, okay. Don't get cocky. Oh, okay. Don't get cocky. What is one thing AI should never What is one thing AI should never What is one thing AI should never decide? decide? decide? There's like infinity things [music] There's like infinity things [music] There's like infinity things [music] that AI should never decide. that AI should never decide. that AI should never decide. Um Um Um it should never make judgments that can it should never make judgments that can it should never make judgments that can have a [music] negative impact on have a [music] negative impact on have a [music] negative impact on people, I think. So, if if we're people, I think. So, if if we're people, I think. So, if if we're approving people for mortgages, like AI approving people for mortgages, like AI approving people for mortgages, like AI can approve them. can approve them. can approve them. Maybe. But it should never say no, Maybe. But it should never say no, Maybe. But it should never say no, right? AI should never make a decision right? AI should never make a decision right? AI should never make a decision that like takes an opportunity [music] that like takes an opportunity [music] that like takes an opportunity [music] away from a person. This is away from a person. This is away from a person. This is Oh, that's good.

Should your personal data be treated Should your personal data be treated like your property? like your property? like your property? >> At a minimum, yes. >> At a minimum, yes. >> At a minimum, yes. >> 100% >> 100% >> 100% >> Our thoughts, our memories, the things >> Our thoughts, our memories, the things >> Our thoughts, our memories, the things that we share on the internet, people that we share on the internet, people that we share on the internet, people they should belong to us. they should belong to us. they should belong to us. >> I think this is like the the core like >> I think this is like the the core like >> I think this is like the the core like legal problem with the whole AI legal problem with the whole AI legal problem with the whole AI ecosystem right now is that like we ecosystem right now is that like we ecosystem right now is that like we share something with a third party share something with a third party share something with a third party at least in the US, [music] right? And at least in the US, [music] right? And at least in the US, [music] right? And then they can do whatever they want with then they can do whatever they want with then they can do whatever they want with it. And that's where like so much of the it. And that's where like so much of the it. And that's where like so much of the dystopia of like AI in the online dystopia of like AI in the online dystopia of like AI in the online ecosystem has flowed from ecosystem has flowed from >> [music] >> cuz we don't have a right to control >> cuz we don't have a right to control >> cuz we don't have a right to control that we should. What is one thing that everyday people What is one thing that everyday people can do to push back against Big Tech? can do to push back against Big Tech? can do to push back against Big Tech? [music] [music] [music] Ooh, that is a hard question. There's Ooh, that is a hard question. There's Ooh, that is a hard question. There's like a scam in all of this that they're like a scam in all of this that they're like a scam in all of this that they're trading convenience to us [music] in trading convenience to us [music] in trading convenience to us [music] in exchange for like all this stuff of exchange for like all this stuff of exchange for like all this stuff of value. value. value. >> The more steps you take to preserve your >> The more steps you take to preserve your >> The more steps you take to preserve your privacy, the less convenient your life privacy, the less convenient your life privacy, the less convenient your life becomes, right? You stop agreeing to becomes, right? You stop agreeing to becomes, right? You stop agreeing to things. You reject the cookies. [music] things. You reject the cookies. [music] things. You reject the cookies. [music] You put the tracker blockers in and then You put the tracker blockers in and then You put the tracker blockers in and then you're not going to be able to order you're not going to be able to order you're not going to be able to order pizza in that browser.

pizza in that browser. pizza in that browser. But like you'll be fine. But like you'll be fine. But like you'll be fine. >> And I would just add on to that >> And I would just add on to that >> And I would just add on to that convenience for whom? Efficiency for convenience for whom? Efficiency for convenience for whom? Efficiency for whom? Cuz now I go to the grocery store, whom? Cuz now I go to the grocery store, whom? Cuz now I go to the grocery store, I have to check out my own cart. You get I have to check out my own cart. You get I have to check out my own cart. You get [music] on the phone, you can't even get [music] on the phone, you can't even get [music] on the phone, you can't even get a human on the phone for days. There's a human on the phone for days. There's a human on the phone for days. There's no accountability. And so I don't know no accountability. And so I don't know no accountability. And so I don't know if it's if it's if it's convenience for me or if [music] it's convenience for me or if [music] it's convenience for me or if [music] it's efficiency for Big Tech companies that efficiency for Big Tech companies that efficiency for Big Tech companies that make the world less human for me. make the world less human for me. make the world less human for me. >> 100% >> 100% >> 100% >> Oof. >> Oof. >> Oof. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's really >> It's really >> It's really >> I got the last slidy one. >> I got the last slidy one. >> I got the last slidy one. >> This is the last easy one. >> This is the last easy one. >> This is the last easy one. This is just the gambling now. This is just the gambling now. This is just the gambling now. >> Oh, you got one. >> Oh, you got one. >> Oh, you got one. >> [laughter] >> Oh my goodness. >> Oh my goodness. I've never played with such a big set of I've never played with such a big set of I've never played with such a big set of blocks before. blocks before. blocks before. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is it actually possible to use the Is it actually possible to use the Is it actually possible to use the internet without sacrificing your internet without sacrificing your internet without sacrificing your privacy? privacy? privacy? >> Ooh. >> Ooh. >> Ooh. >> Oh, I love this question. I think we've >> Oh, I love this question. I think we've >> Oh, I love this question. I think we've been sold a bag of tricks and I actually been sold a bag of tricks and I actually been sold a bag of tricks and I actually think there's a lot of different ways think there's a lot of different ways think there's a lot of different ways that the that the internet could be that the that the internet could be that the that the internet could be truly democratic in terms of at least truly democratic in terms of at least truly democratic in terms of at least putting laws about what kind of data can putting laws about what kind of data can putting laws about what kind of data can be collected about us, having the right be collected about us, having the right be collected about us, having the right to be forgotten like we do in Europe, to be forgotten like we do in Europe, to be forgotten like we do in Europe, having some rights to what data is having some rights to what data is having some rights to what data is collected about us and how it can be collected about us and how it can be collected about us and how it can be bought and sold and to whom.

bought and sold and to whom. bought and sold and to whom. And I think what we really need is And I think what we really need is And I think what we really need is policy makers who understand that data policy makers who understand that data policy makers who understand that data rights rights rights interacts with every civil right and interacts with every civil right and interacts with every civil right and freedom that we enjoy as free people freedom that we enjoy as free people freedom that we enjoy as free people living in a democracy and that we have living in a democracy and that we have living in a democracy and that we have to protect a free and open internet and to protect a free and open internet and to protect a free and open internet and that means the right to not be massively that means the right to not be massively that means the right to not be massively surveilled on the internet. surveilled on the internet. surveilled on the internet. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh uh oh, no. uh oh, no. uh oh, no. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh How about that? Do I have to put it over here? Do I have to put it over here? >> Yep. Okay. What is one thing you would do Okay. What is one thing you would do >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> right now to change the internet for the >> right now to change the internet for the >> right now to change the internet for the better? better? better? Just simple little question. Just simple little question. Just simple little question. >> Um I would make the entire surveillance >> Um I would make the entire surveillance >> Um I would make the entire surveillance tech ecosystem illegal. But like I just tech ecosystem illegal. But like I just tech ecosystem illegal. But like I just turn it all off. Like we can have social turn it all off. Like we can have social turn it all off. Like we can have social media, you can like post your stuff. media, you can like post your stuff. media, you can like post your stuff. Nobody's allowed to collect that data or Nobody's allowed to collect that data or Nobody's allowed to collect that data or do anything. It can sit there. do anything. It can sit there. do anything. It can sit there. Nobody can use it for anything other Nobody can use it for anything other Nobody can use it for anything other than to like look at it. Companies are than to like look at it. Companies are than to like look at it. Companies are able to work able to work able to work and make a ton of money not doing mass and make a ton of money not doing mass and make a ton of money not doing mass surveillance. And there's like a version surveillance. And there's like a version surveillance. And there's like a version of the internet that could exist of the internet that could exist of the internet that could exist >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> like that.

>> like that. >> like that. >> It's my real hope that we will do more >> It's my real hope that we will do more >> It's my real hope that we will do more to protect the most vulnerable among us, to protect the most vulnerable among us, to protect the most vulnerable among us, children, children, children, um on the internet. We're basically um on the internet. We're basically um on the internet. We're basically unleashing the most powerful predictive unleashing the most powerful predictive unleashing the most powerful predictive persuasive algorithms in the history of persuasive algorithms in the history of persuasive algorithms in the history of world on brains that aren't fully world on brains that aren't fully world on brains that aren't fully developed yet. Yeah, there's been these developed yet. Yeah, there's been these developed yet. Yeah, there's been these like like like exponential rises in anxiety, exponential rises in anxiety, exponential rises in anxiety, depression, um, depression, um, depression, um, you know, young women and girls have you know, young women and girls have you know, young women and girls have fallen off a cliff almost with the rise fallen off a cliff almost with the rise fallen off a cliff almost with the rise of social media. of social media. of social media. >> When these lawsuits go forward and we >> When these lawsuits go forward and we >> When these lawsuits go forward and we get discovery from tech companies, get discovery from tech companies, get discovery from tech companies, [music] they know that these are [music] they know that these are [music] they know that these are problems and then they're doing it problems and then they're doing it problems and then they're doing it anyway. Look, this is like a democracy anyway. Look, this is like a democracy anyway. Look, this is like a democracy issue, right? Like these companies have issue, right? Like these companies have issue, right? Like these companies have the same power as governments. [music] the same power as governments. [music] the same power as governments. [music] If they're exercising that power over If they're exercising that power over If they're exercising that power over us, like as a democracy we should be us, like as a democracy we should be us, like as a democracy we should be able to understand what's going on able to understand what's going on able to understand what's going on inside as opposed to just a black box inside as opposed to just a black box inside as opposed to just a black box that we have [music] to leave alone. >> What is democracy? [music] >> What is democracy? [music] I would argue that a democracy I would argue that a democracy I would argue that a democracy is governance by the people and not is governance by the people and not is governance by the people and not being governed by invisible systems of being governed by invisible systems of being governed by invisible systems of knowledge and power that we can't knowledge and power that we can't knowledge and power that we can't question or can't see.

question or can't see. question or can't see. >> Yeah. Agree. >> Yeah. Agree. >> Yeah. Agree. >> [laughter] >> No. >> No. >> This is tense. >> This is tense. >> This is tense. This is tense. This is tense. This is tense. THIS IS TENSE. >> WELL DONE. >> WELL DONE. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> CONGRATS, SHALINI. JEN, it's time for >> CONGRATS, SHALINI. JEN, it's time for >> CONGRATS, SHALINI. JEN, it's time for your mystery challenge. A bonus question your mystery challenge. A bonus question your mystery challenge. A bonus question Shalini wrote before we began filming. Shalini wrote before we began filming. Shalini wrote before we began filming. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> In a world where machines may have >> In a world where machines may have >> In a world where machines may have assumed [music] the sum total of human assumed [music] the sum total of human assumed [music] the sum total of human knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, what are the qualities that make us what are the qualities that make us what are the qualities that make us uniquely [music] human and would allow uniquely [music] human and would allow uniquely [music] human and would allow us to govern these technologies? us to govern these technologies? us to govern these technologies? >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. I'm going to cry answering this [music] I'm going to cry answering this [music] I'm going to cry answering this [music] question. Like question. Like question. Like we're almost there, we're almost there, we're almost there, right? Computers have almost all of right? Computers have almost all of right? Computers have almost all of everything everything everything >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> and they don't get to feel, they're not >> and they don't get to feel, they're not >> and they don't get to feel, they're not embodied, right? They don't experience embodied, right? They don't experience embodied, right? They don't experience loss or grief or love or happiness. They loss or grief or love or happiness. They loss or grief or love or happiness. They don't know [music] what it feels like to don't know [music] what it feels like to don't know [music] what it feels like to be tired. And like all all of that is be tired. And like all all of that is be tired. And like all all of that is like actually our human experience. We like actually our human experience. We like actually our human experience. We can write about it. [music] We can I can can write about it. [music] We can I can can write about it. [music] We can I can describe to you what it feels like.

describe to you what it feels like. describe to you what it feels like. But if I tell [music] you I climbed a But if I tell [music] you I climbed a But if I tell [music] you I climbed a mountain and I stood on the summit and I mountain and I stood on the summit and I mountain and I stood on the summit and I watched the sunset, you can never have watched the sunset, you can never have watched the sunset, you can never have done that and know what that experience done that and know what that experience done that and know what that experience [music] was like. Computer can never [music] was like. Computer can never [music] was like. Computer can never understand that, right? So even with the understand that, right? So even with the understand that, right? So even with the entirety of human knowledge, [music] entirety of human knowledge, [music] entirety of human knowledge, [music] they have no capacity to do anything they have no capacity to do anything they have no capacity to do anything except like a cheap imitation of the except like a cheap imitation of the except like a cheap imitation of the actual human experience. There's places actual human experience. There's places actual human experience. There's places we see them helping with science we see them helping with science we see them helping with science >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> that they're they're helping to >> that they're they're helping to >> that they're they're helping to streamline things. streamline things. streamline things. That's great, right? But in terms of That's great, right? But in terms of That's great, right? But in terms of like replicating our humanity, like like replicating our humanity, like like replicating our humanity, like I think it's it's so [music] misguided I think it's it's so [music] misguided I think it's it's so [music] misguided because our humanity is everything because our humanity is everything because our humanity is everything outside of what they're able to have. outside of what they're able to have. outside of what they're able to have. >> You know, artificial intelligence, it's >> You know, artificial intelligence, it's >> You know, artificial intelligence, it's called intelligence. called intelligence. called intelligence. >> Yeah. [music] >> Yeah. [music] >> Yeah. [music] >> But it lacks morals, ethics, compassion, >> But it lacks morals, ethics, compassion, >> But it lacks morals, ethics, compassion, empathy. And so these systems really empathy. And so these systems really empathy. And so these systems really need us to bring our hearts into the need us to bring our hearts into the need us to bring our hearts into the room. And I also think that [music] room. And I also think that [music] room. And I also think that [music] we need more patience and to extend more we need more patience and to extend more we need more patience and to extend more grace to one another. We're losing our grace to one another. We're losing our grace to one another. We're losing our ability for civic dialogue, [music] ability for civic dialogue, [music] ability for civic dialogue, [music] to disagree respectfully, to disagree respectfully, to disagree respectfully, to honor the inherent value of every to honor the inherent value of every to honor the inherent value of every human being.

human being. human being. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think that once we understand that >> And I think that once we understand that >> And I think that once we understand that to be human is to be imperfect, to be to be human is to be imperfect, to be to be human is to be imperfect, to be imperfect is to be human, that we imperfect is to be human, that we imperfect is to be human, that we realize that we have to extend each realize that we have to extend each realize that we have to extend each other [music] a lot more grace. A little other [music] a lot more grace. A little other [music] a lot more grace. A little patience with the messy, awkward art of patience with the messy, awkward art of patience with the messy, awkward art of connection. connection. connection. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Thank you. This is so fun.