Top White House Advisor: The US Empire Is Declining And Socialism Is Coming Next! | David Friedberg

It's inevitable that socialism will It's inevitable that socialism will happen in America, but I don't want to happen in America, but I don't want to happen in America, but I don't want to lose my agency, my liberty, my freedom. lose my agency, my liberty, my freedom. lose my agency, my liberty, my freedom. >> Do you think the US as an empire is in >> Do you think the US as an empire is in >> Do you think the US as an empire is in decline? decline? decline? >> The answer is yes. I was appointed to >> The answer is yes. I was appointed to >> The answer is yes. I was appointed to President Trump's Council of Adviserss President Trump's Council of Adviserss President Trump's Council of Adviserss in Science and Technology. And one of in Science and Technology. And one of in Science and Technology. And one of the great lies is that the government the great lies is that the government the great lies is that the government will save you. But the more government will save you. But the more government will save you. But the more government has tried to create services for people has tried to create services for people has tried to create services for people and help bring them up the ladder, the and help bring them up the ladder, the and help bring them up the ladder, the more expensive those things get. [music] more expensive those things get. [music] more expensive those things get. [music] 63% of Americans live paycheck to 63% of Americans live paycheck to 63% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. People can't afford to pay paycheck. People can't afford to pay paycheck. People can't afford to pay their bills and it needs to be fixed. their bills and it needs to be fixed. their bills and it needs to be fixed. What will ultimately happen? So, all my What will ultimately happen? So, all my What will ultimately happen? So, all my politician friends are about to chop my politician friends are about to chop my politician friends are about to chop my head off about this, but head off about this, but head off about this, but >> David Freeberg, what is the most >> David Freeberg, what is the most >> David Freeberg, what is the most important subject of our time? important subject of our time? important subject of our time? >> AI. We're entering this golden age, and >> AI. We're entering this golden age, and >> AI. We're entering this golden age, and people don't realize we're in it. And I people don't realize we're in it. And I people don't realize we're in it. And I don't buy into the narrative that don't buy into the narrative that don't buy into the narrative that Daario, Elon, and Sam [music] end up Daario, Elon, and Sam [music] end up Daario, Elon, and Sam [music] end up having all the value in AI because in having all the value in AI because in having all the value in AI because in the next 10 years, there will be a the next 10 years, there will be a the next 10 years, there will be a billionaire that will emerge that has billionaire that will emerge that has billionaire that will emerge that has zero net worth today, downloaded open zero net worth today, downloaded open zero net worth today, downloaded open sourced AI, and built a company that sourced AI, and built a company that sourced AI, and built a company that made them a billionaire. And they're made them a billionaire. And they're made them a billionaire. And they're going to be someone that's going to come going to be someone that's going to come going to be someone that's going to come from nowhere. And there's going to be a from nowhere. And there's going to be a from nowhere. And there's going to be a lot of these sorts of stories. lot of these sorts of stories. lot of these sorts of stories. >> But this narrative that AI will take >> But this narrative that AI will take >> But this narrative that AI will take jobs [music] away, you don't believe it. jobs [music] away, you don't believe it. jobs [music] away, you don't believe it. So from data, from evidence over all So from data, from evidence over all So from data, from evidence over all periods of technological [music] periods of technological [music] periods of technological [music] revolution like this, we've never seen revolution like this, we've never seen revolution like this, we've never seen jobs decline. And the average person jobs decline. And the average person jobs decline. And the average person doesn't see it. But oh my god, the stuff doesn't see it. But oh my god, the stuff doesn't see it. But oh my god, the stuff we can do is unbelievable. Right now we we can do is unbelievable. Right now we we can do is unbelievable. Right now we have a billion people in [music] the have a billion people in [music] the have a billion people in [music] the world that are starving. We have world that are starving. We have world that are starving. We have hundreds of millions dying from curable hundreds of millions dying from curable hundreds of millions dying from curable disease. These are the sorts of things disease. These are the sorts of things disease. These are the sorts of things that are [music] going to get resolved that are [music] going to get resolved that are [music] going to get resolved because AI unleashes this capacity for because AI unleashes this capacity for because AI unleashes this capacity for human advancement and it's transforming human advancement and it's transforming human advancement and it's transforming every aspect of biology and our every aspect of biology and our every aspect of biology and our understanding of life sciences.

understanding of life sciences. understanding of life sciences. >> So I wanted to ask you, do you think >> So I wanted to ask you, do you think >> So I wanted to ask you, do you think we're going to be able to live forever we're going to be able to live forever we're going to be able to live forever soon? The truth is >> this is super interesting to me. My team >> this is super interesting to me. My team gave me this report to show me how many gave me this report to show me how many gave me this report to show me how many of you that watch this show subscribe. of you that watch this show subscribe. of you that watch this show subscribe. And some of you have told us according And some of you have told us according And some of you have told us according to this that you are unsubscribed from to this that you are unsubscribed from to this that you are unsubscribed from the channel randomly. So favor to ask the channel randomly. So favor to ask the channel randomly. So favor to ask all of you. Please could you check right all of you. Please could you check right all of you. Please could you check right now if you've hit the subscribe button now if you've hit the subscribe button now if you've hit the subscribe button if you are a regular viewer of the show if you are a regular viewer of the show if you are a regular viewer of the show and you like what we do here. We're and you like what we do here. We're and you like what we do here. We're approaching quite a significant landmark approaching quite a significant landmark approaching quite a significant landmark on this show in terms of a subscriber on this show in terms of a subscriber on this show in terms of a subscriber number. So, if there was one simple free number. So, if there was one simple free number. So, if there was one simple free thing that you could do to help us, my thing that you could do to help us, my thing that you could do to help us, my team, everyone here, to keep this show team, everyone here, to keep this show team, everyone here, to keep this show free, to keep it improving year over free, to keep it improving year over free, to keep it improving year over year and week over week, it is just to year and week over week, it is just to year and week over week, it is just to hit that subscribe button and to double hit that subscribe button and to double hit that subscribe button and to double check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll ever ask of you. Do we have a deal? If ever ask of you. Do we have a deal? If ever ask of you. Do we have a deal? If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make sure every single week, every I'll make sure every single week, every I'll make sure every single week, every single month, we fight harder and harder single month, we fight harder and harder single month, we fight harder and harder and harder and harder to bring you the and harder and harder to bring you the and harder and harder to bring you the guests and conversations that you want guests and conversations that you want guests and conversations that you want to hear. I've stayed true to that to hear. I've stayed true to that to hear. I've stayed true to that promise since the very beginning of the promise since the very beginning of the promise since the very beginning of the D of Sio, and I will not let you down. D of Sio, and I will not let you down. D of Sio, and I will not let you down. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get on with the show. [music] David Freeberg, you're someone that David Freeberg, you're someone that graces lots of different subjects. If graces lots of different subjects. If graces lots of different subjects. If you were to sort of self-define who you you were to sort of self-define who you you were to sort of self-define who you are and what you do, now this is are and what you do, now this is are and what you do, now this is difficult because you've got to kind of difficult because you've got to kind of difficult because you've got to kind of put yourself in a label here. What would put yourself in a label here. What would put yourself in a label here. What would that label be? How would you that label be? How would you that label be? How would you self-categorize yourself?

self-categorize yourself? self-categorize yourself? >> I would say I'm deeply curious about the >> I would say I'm deeply curious about the >> I would say I'm deeply curious about the world and the universe and how it works world and the universe and how it works world and the universe and how it works and why it works the way it does. And and why it works the way it does. And and why it works the way it does. And I'm a big believer in human agency to I'm a big believer in human agency to I'm a big believer in human agency to affect the universe around us. And affect the universe around us. And affect the universe around us. And that's kind of my core kind of driving that's kind of my core kind of driving that's kind of my core kind of driving motivation. A lot of the other stuff motivation. A lot of the other stuff motivation. A lot of the other stuff ancillary is about how do you enable ancillary is about how do you enable ancillary is about how do you enable that? that? that? >> And I think that that's sort of probably >> And I think that that's sort of probably >> And I think that that's sort of probably where I also spend some time is in the where I also spend some time is in the where I also spend some time is in the enablement of those things. enablement of those things. enablement of those things. >> Got a nice cute photo here of that kid >> Got a nice cute photo here of that kid >> Got a nice cute photo here of that kid that wanted to be Einstein. that wanted to be Einstein. that wanted to be Einstein. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then as it relates to how that >> And then as it relates to how that >> And then as it relates to how that manifested into like a professional manifested into like a professional manifested into like a professional journey, what's your professional journey, what's your professional journey, what's your professional journey been for anyone that might not journey been for anyone that might not journey been for anyone that might not know? I started in college majoring in know? I started in college majoring in know? I started in college majoring in math and physics and then I changed my math and physics and then I changed my math and physics and then I changed my major to astrophysics and it was during major to astrophysics and it was during major to astrophysics and it was during the time I was in college is when the time I was in college is when the time I was in college is when the.com boom happened in the heart of the.com boom happened in the heart of the.com boom happened in the heart of Silicon Valley. There was a kid in my Silicon Valley. There was a kid in my Silicon Valley. There was a kid in my dorm room who started a website selling dorm room who started a website selling dorm room who started a website selling DVDs online and he sold it for a million DVDs online and he sold it for a million DVDs online and he sold it for a million dollars in our junior year of college. dollars in our junior year of college. dollars in our junior year of college. That was like an unbelievable That was like an unbelievable That was like an unbelievable unfathomable amount of money. And so unfathomable amount of money. And so unfathomable amount of money. And so there was this change that was happening there was this change that was happening there was this change that was happening in the world. And I got enamored with in the world. And I got enamored with in the world. And I got enamored with this idea of businesses and how do you this idea of businesses and how do you this idea of businesses and how do you use businesses to change the world, not use businesses to change the world, not use businesses to change the world, not just use scientific discovery as a just use scientific discovery as a just use scientific discovery as a method to change the world. So I decided method to change the world. So I decided method to change the world. So I decided to go work in Silicon Valley. I to go work in Silicon Valley. I to go work in Silicon Valley. I interviewed for jobs. I didn't get a lot interviewed for jobs. I didn't get a lot interviewed for jobs. I didn't get a lot of offers, but I played a lot of poker of offers, but I played a lot of poker of offers, but I played a lot of poker during uh my college days. It's how I during uh my college days. It's how I during uh my college days. It's how I was able to make money. I read all the was able to make money. I read all the was able to make money. I read all the strategy books on playing poker. I strategy books on playing poker. I strategy books on playing poker. I actually spent a year working in a pool actually spent a year working in a pool actually spent a year working in a pool hall and the manager of the pool hall hall and the manager of the pool hall hall and the manager of the pool hall and the bookie invited me to their home and the bookie invited me to their home and the bookie invited me to their home poker game. Took all my money that I poker game. Took all my money that I poker game. Took all my money that I made at the pool hall. I was making four made at the pool hall. I was making four made at the pool hall. I was making four bucks an hour, 425 an hour. And so I was bucks an hour, 425 an hour. And so I was bucks an hour, 425 an hour. And so I was like, I'm going to learn poker. So I

like, I'm going to learn poker. So I like, I'm going to learn poker. So I learned it. That's how I made money. And learned it. That's how I made money. And learned it. That's how I made money. And I put that on my resume when I applied I put that on my resume when I applied I put that on my resume when I applied for jobs after college. And I got for jobs after college. And I got for jobs after college. And I got interviews with investment banks. And interviews with investment banks. And interviews with investment banks. And the investment banks were like, oh, we the investment banks were like, oh, we the investment banks were like, oh, we want to talk to a kid that knows how to want to talk to a kid that knows how to want to talk to a kid that knows how to play poker. Cuz this was before internet play poker. Cuz this was before internet play poker. Cuz this was before internet poker, before ESPN poker. So it was like poker, before ESPN poker. So it was like poker, before ESPN poker. So it was like an interesting thing. And so I ended up an interesting thing. And so I ended up an interesting thing. And so I ended up getting a job working in investment getting a job working in investment getting a job working in investment banking and then worked in on tech banking and then worked in on tech banking and then worked in on tech companies. So then I got to learn companies. So then I got to learn companies. So then I got to learn business, finance, accounting, mergers business, finance, accounting, mergers business, finance, accounting, mergers and acquisitions, all this sort of and acquisitions, all this sort of and acquisitions, all this sort of stuff. And then I ended up working at stuff. And then I ended up working at stuff. And then I ended up working at Google. I worked at Google when it was Google. I worked at Google when it was Google. I worked at Google when it was started when it was a just under a started when it was a just under a started when it was a just under a thousand employees and I left a couple thousand employees and I left a couple thousand employees and I left a couple years later started a business uh called years later started a business uh called years later started a business uh called the climate corporation and so I've been the climate corporation and so I've been the climate corporation and so I've been in Silicon Valley my whole career in Silicon Valley my whole career in Silicon Valley my whole career >> and that company you end up starting >> and that company you end up starting >> and that company you end up starting does pretty well does pretty well does pretty well >> the climate corporation >> the climate corporation >> the climate corporation >> the climate corporation >> the climate corporation >> the climate corporation >> that one we sold in 2013 so we sold it >> that one we sold in 2013 so we sold it >> that one we sold in 2013 so we sold it for a little over a billion dollars for a little over a billion dollars for a little over a billion dollars which was a great outcome for investors which was a great outcome for investors which was a great outcome for investors and shareholders and today you know it's and shareholders and today you know it's and shareholders and today you know it's software for farmers software for farmers software for farmers >> and today that software is now owned by >> and today that software is now owned by >> and today that software is now owned by Bayer which is the big kind of pharma/ag Bayer which is the big kind of pharma/ag Bayer which is the big kind of pharma/ag company. Uh it's used across 200 million company. Uh it's used across 200 million company. Uh it's used across 200 million acres every year. That's a pretty acres every year. That's a pretty acres every year. That's a pretty sizable amount of farmland that uses sizable amount of farmland that uses sizable amount of farmland that uses that software still. So yeah, it's it's that software still. So yeah, it's it's that software still. So yeah, it's it's done fairly well.

done fairly well. done fairly well. >> So I'm 33 now. You were 33 when you sold >> So I'm 33 now. You were 33 when you sold >> So I'm 33 now. You were 33 when you sold that? that? that? >> I was 33. >> I was 33. >> I was 33. >> 33. A lot of money, 1.1 billion. And >> 33. A lot of money, 1.1 billion. And >> 33. A lot of money, 1.1 billion. And you've done lots of other things since you've done lots of other things since you've done lots of other things since then, which we can go into. But you've then, which we can go into. But you've then, which we can go into. But you've also, I think from March this year, you also, I think from March this year, you also, I think from March this year, you were appointed as an adviser to Donald were appointed as an adviser to Donald were appointed as an adviser to Donald Trump. Yeah, I was appointed to Trump. Yeah, I was appointed to Trump. Yeah, I was appointed to President Trump's Council of Adviserss President Trump's Council of Adviserss President Trump's Council of Adviserss in Science and Technology. And in Science and Technology. And in Science and Technology. And >> what does that mean in reality? >> what does that mean in reality? >> what does that mean in reality? >> So, if you look back in the last couple >> So, if you look back in the last couple >> So, if you look back in the last couple administrations, there have been administrations, there have been administrations, there have been different themes over time on who is different themes over time on who is different themes over time on who is appointed to PCAST. In historical appointed to PCAST. In historical appointed to PCAST. In historical context, like Bill Clinton had a PCAST context, like Bill Clinton had a PCAST context, like Bill Clinton had a PCAST that was set up just for the internet. that was set up just for the internet. that was set up just for the internet. >> Pcast, >> Pcast, >> Pcast, >> president's council of adviserss in >> president's council of adviserss in >> president's council of adviserss in science and technology. science and technology. science and technology. >> And so, he set one up focused on the >> And so, he set one up focused on the >> And so, he set one up focused on the internet. And this current pcast under internet. And this current pcast under internet. And this current pcast under this administration is heavy in AI. So this administration is heavy in AI. So this administration is heavy in AI. So it's like Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Andre, it's like Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Andre, it's like Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Andre, Sergey Brin, that that's kind of the Sergey Brin, that that's kind of the Sergey Brin, that that's kind of the cohort that's on this advisory council, cohort that's on this advisory council, cohort that's on this advisory council, but it's always included folks that are but it's always included folks that are but it's always included folks that are involved in things like biotechnology, involved in things like biotechnology, involved in things like biotechnology, sciences, and to help guide science sciences, and to help guide science sciences, and to help guide science policy for the administration. So it policy for the administration. So it policy for the administration. So it involves having conversations with involves having conversations with involves having conversations with people in the administration on things people in the administration on things people in the administration on things that are happening in industry, things that are happening in industry, things that are happening in industry, things that are happening on the frontiers of that are happening on the frontiers of that are happening on the frontiers of science and technology to help guide science and technology to help guide science and technology to help guide some of the policy decisions that the some of the policy decisions that the some of the policy decisions that the administration is trying to create or administration is trying to create or administration is trying to create or enforce. And what is the most important enforce. And what is the most important enforce. And what is the most important subject of our time?

subject of our time? subject of our time? >> AI. And right now the big question in >> AI. And right now the big question in >> AI. And right now the big question in the United States from a policy the United States from a policy the United States from a policy perspective seems to be the regulation perspective seems to be the regulation perspective seems to be the regulation of AI. What role should the government of AI. What role should the government of AI. What role should the government play in determining where AI goes, how play in determining where AI goes, how play in determining where AI goes, how it gets built, how it gets deployed, who it gets built, how it gets deployed, who it gets built, how it gets deployed, who gets to use it, who owns it, where the gets to use it, who owns it, where the gets to use it, who owns it, where the value lies. a lot of these factions that value lies. a lot of these factions that value lies. a lot of these factions that emerge inside a government even today on emerge inside a government even today on emerge inside a government even today on the same political party on whether or the same political party on whether or the same political party on whether or not for example to allow Chinese open- not for example to allow Chinese open- not for example to allow Chinese open- source models to be used by American source models to be used by American source models to be used by American businesses. You know these businesses. You know these businesses. You know these [clears throat] Chinese models are as [clears throat] Chinese models are as [clears throat] Chinese models are as good as or in many cases better than good as or in many cases better than good as or in many cases better than private American models and because private American models and because private American models and because they're open weights you can download they're open weights you can download they're open weights you can download them and run them on any computer you them and run them on any computer you them and run them on any computer you want that works. A lot of companies want want that works. A lot of companies want want that works. A lot of companies want to use those because they're cheap. to use those because they're cheap. to use those because they're cheap. there you can pay effectively 50 cents there you can pay effectively 50 cents there you can pay effectively 50 cents for a million tokens of output which is for a million tokens of output which is for a million tokens of output which is a measure of how productive the model a measure of how productive the model a measure of how productive the model is. You know this is a a token is kind is. You know this is a a token is kind is. You know this is a a token is kind of like a word versus $50 from anthropic of like a word versus $50 from anthropic of like a word versus $50 from anthropic which is a private model. So the which is a private model. So the which is a private model. So the question is do we allow these Chinese question is do we allow these Chinese question is do we allow these Chinese models to kind of become ubiquitous in models to kind of become ubiquitous in models to kind of become ubiquitous in industry and if so what does that do to industry and if so what does that do to industry and if so what does that do to American AI? What does that do to our American AI? What does that do to our American AI? What does that do to our capacity to compete?

capacity to compete? capacity to compete? Is there security risk? Uh so there's a Is there security risk? Uh so there's a Is there security risk? Uh so there's a lot of this kind of debate underway. Uh lot of this kind of debate underway. Uh lot of this kind of debate underway. Uh and that I think is probably the hot and that I think is probably the hot and that I think is probably the hot topic dour. I don't know if it's the hot topic dour. I don't know if it's the hot topic dour. I don't know if it's the hot topic tomorrow, but today that's kind of topic tomorrow, but today that's kind of topic tomorrow, but today that's kind of the big thing. But all of this this the big thing. But all of this this the big thing. But all of this this administration I think from a science administration I think from a science administration I think from a science and technology policy perspective will and technology policy perspective will and technology policy perspective will probably be viewed as on the one hand probably be viewed as on the one hand probably be viewed as on the one hand what's the enablement acceleration what's the enablement acceleration what's the enablement acceleration regulation of AI and on the other hand regulation of AI and on the other hand regulation of AI and on the other hand you know there's this question still on you know there's this question still on you know there's this question still on what is science today in an era of AI what is science today in an era of AI what is science today in an era of AI science is also changing and so there's science is also changing and so there's science is also changing and so there's this kind of I think big shift underway this kind of I think big shift underway this kind of I think big shift underway >> we'll go into those subjects >> we'll go into those subjects >> we'll go into those subjects specifically the subjects on AI and specifically the subjects on AI and specifically the subjects on AI and everything that it interfaces with but I everything that it interfaces with but I everything that it interfaces with but I think it's important also to get kind of think it's important also to get kind of think it's important also to get kind of like a a backdrop of the economic state like a a backdrop of the economic state like a a backdrop of the economic state and like the social state of the nation and like the social state of the nation and like the social state of the nation because all of these things feed into because all of these things feed into because all of these things feed into these big questions on AI and they also these big questions on AI and they also these big questions on AI and they also inform everyone's biases on this subject inform everyone's biases on this subject inform everyone's biases on this subject because if you're at a different sort of because if you're at a different sort of because if you're at a different sort of socioeconomic position or if you're socioeconomic position or if you're socioeconomic position or if you're feeling a different thing your feeling a different thing your feeling a different thing your perspective on AI is going to be perspective on AI is going to be perspective on AI is going to be radically different. So if we started radically different. So if we started radically different. So if we started then first on like if we just focus on then first on like if we just focus on then first on like if we just focus on the United States which mean in some the United States which mean in some the United States which mean in some respects is a little bit of a proxy for respects is a little bit of a proxy for respects is a little bit of a proxy for the rest of the western world. Where is the rest of the western world. Where is the rest of the western world. Where is the United States at at this moment in the United States at at this moment in the United States at at this moment in time in terms of is it on the rise time in terms of is it on the rise time in terms of is it on the rise inequality? What are the what are the inequality? What are the what are the inequality? What are the what are the sort of pertinent factors here that help sort of pertinent factors here that help sort of pertinent factors here that help us understand the backdrop of this us understand the backdrop of this us understand the backdrop of this nation?

nation? nation? >> The biggest drivers for this nation at >> The biggest drivers for this nation at >> The biggest drivers for this nation at the moment in terms of what public the moment in terms of what public the moment in terms of what public policy and private markets will do is policy and private markets will do is policy and private markets will do is number one the unaffordability crisis. number one the unaffordability crisis. number one the unaffordability crisis. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> 63% of Americans live paycheck to >> 63% of Americans live paycheck to >> 63% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. They don't have enough savings paycheck. They don't have enough savings paycheck. They don't have enough savings to pay for a fiscal emergency in their to pay for a fiscal emergency in their to pay for a fiscal emergency in their household. 63% of Americans and the cost household. 63% of Americans and the cost household. 63% of Americans and the cost of things is rising faster than wages of things is rising faster than wages of things is rising faster than wages are increasing. So things feel less are increasing. So things feel less are increasing. So things feel less affordable to most Americans. And then affordable to most Americans. And then affordable to most Americans. And then there's this wealth inequality concern there's this wealth inequality concern there's this wealth inequality concern which I would say is both kind of a which I would say is both kind of a which I would say is both kind of a perception issue. There's definitely perception issue. There's definitely perception issue. There's definitely policy issues that has allowed it to policy issues that has allowed it to policy issues that has allowed it to happen and we can talk about those. But happen and we can talk about those. But happen and we can talk about those. But I think America is in this kind of I think America is in this kind of I think America is in this kind of crisis of classism, this crisis of us crisis of classism, this crisis of us crisis of classism, this crisis of us versus them. And it manifests in a lot versus them. And it manifests in a lot versus them. And it manifests in a lot of different ways. So, you know, you had of different ways. So, you know, you had of different ways. So, you know, you had Ray Dalio on, and if you think about Ray Ray Dalio on, and if you think about Ray Ray Dalio on, and if you think about Ray Dalio's kind of like cycle of empires, Dalio's kind of like cycle of empires, Dalio's kind of like cycle of empires, you know, this is this idea that there's you know, this is this idea that there's you know, this is this idea that there's been six empires in the last 500 years been six empires in the last 500 years been six empires in the last 500 years and the United States is on the decline and the United States is on the decline and the United States is on the decline and China's on the rise. And it can be and China's on the rise. And it can be and China's on the rise. And it can be measured across a number of different measured across a number of different measured across a number of different dimensions. One of which is this crisis dimensions. One of which is this crisis dimensions. One of which is this crisis of internal struggle which manifests of internal struggle which manifests of internal struggle which manifests often with external struggle, the Iran often with external struggle, the Iran often with external struggle, the Iran war. Like why can't we stop having war. Like why can't we stop having war. Like why can't we stop having external wars? Well, you know, a nation external wars? Well, you know, a nation external wars? Well, you know, a nation that's happy with itself generally that's happy with itself generally that's happy with itself generally doesn't go to war. A nation that's not doesn't go to war. A nation that's not doesn't go to war. A nation that's not happy generally does go to war. And so, happy generally does go to war. And so, happy generally does go to war. And so, um, a lot of this stuff gets tied up, I um, a lot of this stuff gets tied up, I um, a lot of this stuff gets tied up, I think, in this economic distress that think, in this economic distress that think, in this economic distress that the United States is feeling. My the United States is feeling. My the United States is feeling. My contention

contention contention which may not be very popular is that which may not be very popular is that which may not be very popular is that the more government has tried to uh the more government has tried to uh the more government has tried to uh create services for people and help create services for people and help create services for people and help bring them up the ladder the more bring them up the ladder the more bring them up the ladder the more expensive those things get expensive those things get expensive those things get >> i.e. socialism >> i.e. socialism >> i.e. socialism >> policy in the United States and this is >> policy in the United States and this is >> policy in the United States and this is one of the great lies and I think one of the great lies and I think one of the great lies and I think there's a series of great lies in US there's a series of great lies in US there's a series of great lies in US policy over the last half century but policy over the last half century but policy over the last half century but one of the great lies is that the one of the great lies is that the one of the great lies is that the government will save you the government government will save you the government government will save you the government will help you by giving you these will help you by giving you these will help you by giving you these essential services that you want more of essential services that you want more of essential services that you want more of education healthcare housing and as the education healthcare housing and as the education healthcare housing and as the government has entered into those government has entered into those government has entered into those markets because remember there are markets because remember there are markets because remember there are people making those things offering people making those things offering people making those things offering those services and there's someone those services and there's someone those services and there's someone paying for it so as the government paying for it so as the government paying for it so as the government enables more money to flow into those enables more money to flow into those enables more money to flow into those markets, the cost of those things has markets, the cost of those things has markets, the cost of those things has just gone up. And you can see how this just gone up. And you can see how this just gone up. And you can see how this plays out, for example, in education. So plays out, for example, in education. So plays out, for example, in education. So higher education, if you want to go to higher education, if you want to go to higher education, if you want to go to college in the United States, and I'll college in the United States, and I'll college in the United States, and I'll just give you a statistic. 30 years ago, just give you a statistic. 30 years ago, just give you a statistic. 30 years ago, administrative staff were like 10% of administrative staff were like 10% of administrative staff were like 10% of colleges. Today, they're like 60%. In colleges. Today, they're like 60%. In colleges. Today, they're like 60%. In just 30 years, give me a rational reason just 30 years, give me a rational reason just 30 years, give me a rational reason why we should have 6x the administrative why we should have 6x the administrative why we should have 6x the administrative staffing at colleges and universities.

staffing at colleges and universities. staffing at colleges and universities. There isn't a good reason why. The real There isn't a good reason why. The real There isn't a good reason why. The real reason is that because the federal reason is that because the federal reason is that because the federal student loan program doesn't student loan program doesn't student loan program doesn't discriminate against a university on how discriminate against a university on how discriminate against a university on how well they do with their graduating well they do with their graduating well they do with their graduating students or the degree or the individual students or the degree or the individual students or the degree or the individual that's taking out the loan. The federal that's taking out the loan. The federal that's taking out the loan. The federal student loan program has just allowed student loan program has just allowed student loan program has just allowed more money to flow in to universities. more money to flow in to universities. more money to flow in to universities. Now, if you're a university Now, if you're a university Now, if you're a university administrator, there's no constraint on administrator, there's no constraint on administrator, there's no constraint on how much you can charge for tuition. So, how much you can charge for tuition. So, how much you can charge for tuition. So, hey, we'll raise tuition 5% this year. hey, we'll raise tuition 5% this year. hey, we'll raise tuition 5% this year. We'll raise it 8%. We'll raise it 10%. We'll raise it 8%. We'll raise it 10%. We'll raise it 8%. We'll raise it 10%. And we'll hire more people. And if And we'll hire more people. And if And we'll hire more people. And if people hire more people, they get a people hire more people, they get a people hire more people, they get a higher salary. If you think about the higher salary. If you think about the higher salary. If you think about the individual, I don't get to make more individual, I don't get to make more individual, I don't get to make more salary until I'm a manager. Now I want salary until I'm a manager. Now I want salary until I'm a manager. Now I want to be a director. Now I want to be a to be a director. Now I want to be a to be a director. Now I want to be a senior director and the organization senior director and the organization senior director and the organization grows. That's very natural for any grows. That's very natural for any grows. That's very natural for any organization whether it's a nonprofit, a organization whether it's a nonprofit, a organization whether it's a nonprofit, a university or a private company. You university or a private company. You university or a private company. You want to grow and people want to make want to grow and people want to make want to grow and people want to make more money year after year. So they more money year after year. So they more money year after year. So they because they can collect more money can because they can collect more money can because they can collect more money can charge more for tuition. There isn't a charge more for tuition. There isn't a charge more for tuition. There isn't a natural market force that says your natural market force that says your natural market force that says your tuition is too high now because the tuition is too high now because the tuition is too high now because the government has provided unlimited government has provided unlimited government has provided unlimited funding to higher education through the funding to higher education through the funding to higher education through the federal student loan program. So, as a federal student loan program. So, as a federal student loan program. So, as a result, education has gotten so vastly result, education has gotten so vastly result, education has gotten so vastly expensive that everyone now looks at it expensive that everyone now looks at it expensive that everyone now looks at it and says, "We got to do something about and says, "We got to do something about and says, "We got to do something about this." And both parties seem to say, this." And both parties seem to say, this." And both parties seem to say, "Well, here's what the government's "Well, here's what the government's "Well, here's what the government's going to do to do more." And it's like going to do to do more." And it's like going to do to do more." And it's like putting fuel on the fire. So, the putting fuel on the fire. So, the putting fuel on the fire. So, the challenge right now is people are challenge right now is people are challenge right now is people are feeling left behind. There's massive feeling left behind. There's massive feeling left behind. There's massive wealth inequality. Things are extremely wealth inequality. Things are extremely wealth inequality. Things are extremely unaffordable. And the solution that's unaffordable. And the solution that's unaffordable. And the solution that's being embraced is for the government to being embraced is for the government to being embraced is for the government to do more, which the facto leads to do more, which the facto leads to do more, which the facto leads to socialism. What is wrong with socialism?

socialism. What is wrong with socialism? socialism. What is wrong with socialism? I would argue that the key measure of a I would argue that the key measure of a I would argue that the key measure of a country's success is how many people are country's success is how many people are country's success is how many people are transitioning from labor to capital each transitioning from labor to capital each transitioning from labor to capital each year. year. year. >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> What does that mean? >> That means every year I'm working >> That means every year I'm working >> That means every year I'm working paycheck to paycheck. I'm collecting paycheck to paycheck. I'm collecting paycheck to paycheck. I'm collecting check. I I I I graduated college. I had check. I I I I graduated college. I had check. I I I I graduated college. I had $19,000 in debt. I went and worked. I $19,000 in debt. I went and worked. I $19,000 in debt. I went and worked. I got paid. I saved up. I paid down my got paid. I saved up. I paid down my got paid. I saved up. I paid down my debt. I was able to get out of it. Then debt. I was able to get out of it. Then debt. I was able to get out of it. Then I worked at Google. We had an IPO. I worked at Google. We had an IPO. I worked at Google. We had an IPO. Suddenly I had assets. I had stuff. I Suddenly I had assets. I had stuff. I Suddenly I had assets. I had stuff. I had money in the bank account. And it had money in the bank account. And it had money in the bank account. And it was like an incredible moment for me. was like an incredible moment for me. was like an incredible moment for me. And I said, I could live off that money. And I said, I could live off that money. And I said, I could live off that money. I don't need to live off a paycheck I don't need to live off a paycheck I don't need to live off a paycheck every month. I now have savings. I have every month. I now have savings. I have every month. I now have savings. I have assets. That is capital. And everyone assets. That is capital. And everyone assets. That is capital. And everyone talks about capital versus labor. But talks about capital versus labor. But talks about capital versus labor. But the real advantage of America is the real advantage of America is the real advantage of America is enabling people to go from labor to enabling people to go from labor to enabling people to go from labor to capital. Every individual that works, capital. Every individual that works, capital. Every individual that works, saves, invests, does whatever they need saves, invests, does whatever they need saves, invests, does whatever they need to do to accumulate enough capital ends to do to accumulate enough capital ends to do to accumulate enough capital ends up in the capital bucket. And then up in the capital bucket. And then up in the capital bucket. And then you're no longer stuck needing to go you're no longer stuck needing to go you're no longer stuck needing to go paycheck to paycheck to pay your bills. paycheck to paycheck to pay your bills. paycheck to paycheck to pay your bills. That's the dream. That's the real That's the dream. That's the real That's the dream. That's the real American dream. It's not just about American dream. It's not just about American dream. It's not just about owning a house. If you own a house and owning a house. If you own a house and owning a house. If you own a house and you own a have a bunch of debt and you you own a have a bunch of debt and you you own a have a bunch of debt and you got insurance payments to make and you got insurance payments to make and you got insurance payments to make and you still got to work every month to make still got to work every month to make still got to work every month to make those payments, you're not necessarily those payments, you're not necessarily those payments, you're not necessarily living the American dream yet. The living the American dream yet. The living the American dream yet. The American dream is being freed of that American dream is being freed of that American dream is being freed of that burden burden burden >> because you can live off the interest of >> because you can live off the interest of >> because you can live off the interest of your assets.

your assets. your assets. >> That's right. And so you're earning >> That's right. And so you're earning >> That's right. And so you're earning income. You like, let's say you have income. You like, let's say you have income. You like, let's say you have $100,000, $100,000, $100,000, you know, saved and you can make 10% a you know, saved and you can make 10% a you know, saved and you can make 10% a year on that. That's 10,000 bucks. year on that. That's 10,000 bucks. year on that. That's 10,000 bucks. Suddenly, if you get to a million dollar Suddenly, if you get to a million dollar Suddenly, if you get to a million dollar saved, you can make $100,000 a year and saved, you can make $100,000 a year and saved, you can make $100,000 a year and you can live on that. That's economic you can live on that. That's economic you can live on that. That's economic security. That's financial security. security. That's financial security. security. That's financial security. That's what we should give to every That's what we should give to every That's what we should give to every American is the ability to own assets American is the ability to own assets American is the ability to own assets that give them freedom to choose what that give them freedom to choose what that give them freedom to choose what they want to do in their life rather they want to do in their life rather they want to do in their life rather than be stuck in work. And the problem than be stuck in work. And the problem than be stuck in work. And the problem with socialism is it takes away that with socialism is it takes away that with socialism is it takes away that transition moment. It eliminates it transition moment. It eliminates it transition moment. It eliminates it because it says everyone has to be labor because it says everyone has to be labor because it says everyone has to be labor all the time for the rest of their all the time for the rest of their all the time for the rest of their lives. And then no one has freedom. And lives. And then no one has freedom. And lives. And then no one has freedom. And that's what America was founded on was that's what America was founded on was that's what America was founded on was this ability to find through freedom of this ability to find through freedom of this ability to find through freedom of choice, through agency, the ability to choice, through agency, the ability to choice, through agency, the ability to transition from labor to capital. And I transition from labor to capital. And I transition from labor to capital. And I think our goal as a country should be think our goal as a country should be think our goal as a country should be get 2% of Americans across that line get 2% of Americans across that line get 2% of Americans across that line every year, then I think we'll be every year, then I think we'll be every year, then I think we'll be successful going forward. But if successful going forward. But if successful going forward. But if everything's all about like give people everything's all about like give people everything's all about like give people more stuff and have the government do more stuff and have the government do more stuff and have the government do it, we're just going to keep raising the it, we're just going to keep raising the it, we're just going to keep raising the debt, making things more expensive, debt, making things more expensive, debt, making things more expensive, inflating the cost away, and it's inflating the cost away, and it's inflating the cost away, and it's inevitable that socialism will happen in inevitable that socialism will happen in inevitable that socialism will happen in America. It's absolutely inevitable. Do America. It's absolutely inevitable. Do America. It's absolutely inevitable. Do you think the US as an empire is in you think the US as an empire is in you think the US as an empire is in decline decline decline >> in terms of the power of the dollar in >> in terms of the power of the dollar in >> in terms of the power of the dollar in terms of prosperity of Americans? The terms of prosperity of Americans? The terms of prosperity of Americans? The average American or majority of average American or majority of average American or majority of Americans the answer is yes. But um the Americans the answer is yes. But um the Americans the answer is yes. But um the potential hasn't been deleted meaning potential hasn't been deleted meaning potential hasn't been deleted meaning decline is not inevitable to be very decline is not inevitable to be very decline is not inevitable to be very clear like we are not yet at a point clear like we are not yet at a point clear like we are not yet at a point where it's a runaway train. In the where it's a runaway train. In the where it's a runaway train. In the history of democracies, there's never history of democracies, there's never history of democracies, there's never been a place like America where an been a place like America where an been a place like America where an individual like myself, you know, moving individual like myself, you know, moving individual like myself, you know, moving here from South Africa, going to public

here from South Africa, going to public here from South Africa, going to public college, graduating with debt, and then college, graduating with debt, and then college, graduating with debt, and then being able to work my way out of the being able to work my way out of the being able to work my way out of the debt and find myself in the position I'm debt and find myself in the position I'm debt and find myself in the position I'm in today with no nepotism, with no in today with no nepotism, with no in today with no nepotism, with no handouts, with I mean, you could argue handouts, with I mean, you could argue handouts, with I mean, you could argue about privilege and all these other about privilege and all these other about privilege and all these other sorts of things that I was vested over sorts of things that I was vested over sorts of things that I was vested over my life. But like, it's an amazing place my life. But like, it's an amazing place my life. But like, it's an amazing place that that sort of story can be told a that that sort of story can be told a that that sort of story can be told a million times over, that there's not million times over, that there's not million times over, that there's not just one or two people that this has just one or two people that this has just one or two people that this has happened to, but there's millions of happened to, but there's millions of happened to, but there's millions of people. The problem is it's all the people. The problem is it's all the people. The problem is it's all the other hundreds of millions that didn't other hundreds of millions that didn't other hundreds of millions that didn't get to live that opportunity. And if we get to live that opportunity. And if we get to live that opportunity. And if we can fix that, America is not in decline. can fix that, America is not in decline. can fix that, America is not in decline. America is a prosperous nation and has America is a prosperous nation and has America is a prosperous nation and has centuries ahead of it. centuries ahead of it. centuries ahead of it. >> When you look at this, you're talking >> When you look at this, you're talking >> When you look at this, you're talking about runaway trains. When you look at about runaway trains. When you look at about runaway trains. When you look at the national debt, though, it does look the national debt, though, it does look the national debt, though, it does look very much like a runaway. very much like a runaway. very much like a runaway. >> Want to know where inflation comes from? >> Want to know where inflation comes from? >> Want to know where inflation comes from? That's where inflation comes from. By That's where inflation comes from. By That's where inflation comes from. By printing more dollars to pay for that printing more dollars to pay for that printing more dollars to pay for that debt, which is what happens, the Federal debt, which is what happens, the Federal debt, which is what happens, the Federal Reserve buys the debt and they issue Reserve buys the debt and they issue Reserve buys the debt and they issue dollars to the bank system to to buy the dollars to the bank system to to buy the dollars to the bank system to to buy the debt from the government. Remember, the debt from the government. Remember, the debt from the government. Remember, the Federal Reserve is separate from the Federal Reserve is separate from the Federal Reserve is separate from the government. So, the Federal Reserve can government. So, the Federal Reserve can government. So, the Federal Reserve can print dollars. They can send dollars to print dollars. They can send dollars to print dollars. They can send dollars to banks and now the banks can loan money banks and now the banks can loan money banks and now the banks can loan money out and it makes its way into the out and it makes its way into the out and it makes its way into the economy. Now, there's more dollars in economy. Now, there's more dollars in economy. Now, there's more dollars in the economy and that money was, you the economy and that money was, you the economy and that money was, you know, owed back to the government at know, owed back to the government at know, owed back to the government at some point, but the Federal Reserve may some point, but the Federal Reserve may some point, but the Federal Reserve may never get paid back. They may just keep never get paid back. They may just keep never get paid back. They may just keep adding and adding and adding and adding adding and adding and adding and adding adding and adding and adding and adding and they're just printing more and more and they're just printing more and more and they're just printing more and more dollars.

dollars. dollars. >> Is that sustainable? >> Is that sustainable? >> Is that sustainable? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> So, so I I don't understand the force >> So, so I I don't understand the force >> So, so I I don't understand the force that's going to intervene to stop this that's going to intervene to stop this that's going to intervene to stop this sort of compounding debt. sort of compounding debt. sort of compounding debt. >> The outcome of this is socialism. That's >> The outcome of this is socialism. That's >> The outcome of this is socialism. That's the moment we're in right now. That's the moment we're in right now. That's the moment we're in right now. That's why we're seeing this wave of socialism. why we're seeing this wave of socialism. why we're seeing this wave of socialism. I've been saying for five years, we're I've been saying for five years, we're I've been saying for five years, we're going to face a wave of socialism. And going to face a wave of socialism. And going to face a wave of socialism. And after Donald Trump was elected, my after Donald Trump was elected, my after Donald Trump was elected, my prediction for the next year was that prediction for the next year was that prediction for the next year was that the next wave in politics in America the next wave in politics in America the next wave in politics in America will be socialism. And people thought I will be socialism. And people thought I will be socialism. And people thought I was crazy. And I'm like, it is was crazy. And I'm like, it is was crazy. And I'm like, it is absolutely inevitable. If you look at absolutely inevitable. If you look at absolutely inevitable. If you look at this, this is where we're headed. It it this, this is where we're headed. It it this, this is where we're headed. It it is deacto socialism when the government is deacto socialism when the government is deacto socialism when the government employs roughly 1/ half of the people of employs roughly 1/ half of the people of employs roughly 1/ half of the people of the United States. Right now, if you the United States. Right now, if you the United States. Right now, if you look at all the federal, state, local look at all the federal, state, local look at all the federal, state, local agencies, so the people that are agencies, so the people that are agencies, so the people that are employed, the people that are employed, the people that are employed, the people that are contractors of those agencies, and then contractors of those agencies, and then contractors of those agencies, and then um the people that live off of uh some um the people that live off of uh some um the people that live off of uh some sort of government pension or social sort of government pension or social sort of government pension or social security system, the total amount is security system, the total amount is security system, the total amount is close to 50% of Americans. So, we're close to 50% of Americans. So, we're close to 50% of Americans. So, we're getting to a point where people are getting to a point where people are getting to a point where people are like, the only place I can go is more like, the only place I can go is more like, the only place I can go is more money from the government. And then money from the government. And then money from the government. And then eventually the government becomes the eventually the government becomes the eventually the government becomes the whole economy. whole economy. whole economy. >> If the outcome of socialism was the >> If the outcome of socialism was the >> If the outcome of socialism was the cause, capitalism, cause, capitalism, cause, capitalism, >> it's a great question. I think it was >> it's a great question. I think it was >> it's a great question. I think it was capitalism plus policies. Let's say you capitalism plus policies. Let's say you capitalism plus policies. Let's say you have a million dollars.

have a million dollars. have a million dollars. >> Yeah. you're making, say, 10% a year. >> Yeah. you're making, say, 10% a year. >> Yeah. you're making, say, 10% a year. Next year you have $1.1 million. The Next year you have $1.1 million. The Next year you have $1.1 million. The next year you have $1.21 million or next year you have $1.21 million or next year you have $1.21 million or whatever. And you keep adding it up. whatever. And you keep adding it up. whatever. And you keep adding it up. That's called compounding. After a That's called compounding. After a That's called compounding. After a couple of years, your million dollars couple of years, your million dollars couple of years, your million dollars turns into $10 million. turns into $10 million. turns into $10 million. >> And you never have to sell shares along >> And you never have to sell shares along >> And you never have to sell shares along the way. You can just own the shares and the way. You can just own the shares and the way. You can just own the shares and whatever's going up. Your value just whatever's going up. Your value just whatever's going up. Your value just keeps going up. You've never paid taxes keeps going up. You've never paid taxes keeps going up. You've never paid taxes along the way. Boom, boom, boom, boom, along the way. Boom, boom, boom, boom, along the way. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And suddenly, fast forward a boom. And suddenly, fast forward a boom. And suddenly, fast forward a couple years, instead of having a couple years, instead of having a couple years, instead of having a million, you've now got 10. That's million, you've now got 10. That's million, you've now got 10. That's capital compounding over time. capital compounding over time. capital compounding over time. Meanwhile, if you're working, every Meanwhile, if you're working, every Meanwhile, if you're working, every paycheck, taxes are taken out. Every paycheck, taxes are taken out. Every paycheck, taxes are taken out. Every time you get a check, every time you get time you get a check, every time you get time you get a check, every time you get more money, more capital, taxes are more money, more capital, taxes are more money, more capital, taxes are taken out. So, if you don't get capital, taken out. So, if you don't get capital, taken out. So, if you don't get capital, if you don't get enough savings to allow if you don't get enough savings to allow if you don't get enough savings to allow you to compound, you are never going to you to compound, you are never going to you to compound, you are never going to get there. So, from a tax policy get there. So, from a tax policy get there. So, from a tax policy perspective, labor working for your perspective, labor working for your perspective, labor working for your money should have never been taxed money should have never been taxed money should have never been taxed higher than earning returns on your higher than earning returns on your higher than earning returns on your capital. So you're saying tax the rich? capital. So you're saying tax the rich? capital. So you're saying tax the rich? >> I'm saying tax capital at a rate that's >> I'm saying tax capital at a rate that's >> I'm saying tax capital at a rate that's equivalent to labor.

equivalent to labor. equivalent to labor. >> Wealth taxes. >> Wealth taxes. >> Wealth taxes. >> Wealth taxes are asset seizures. >> Wealth taxes are asset seizures. >> Wealth taxes are asset seizures. Definitely no. So one of the principles Definitely no. So one of the principles Definitely no. So one of the principles of the United States and the principle of the United States and the principle of the United States and the principle of what this country was founded on is of what this country was founded on is of what this country was founded on is private property rights. If you go back private property rights. If you go back private property rights. If you go back to England, right, like 500 years or to England, right, like 500 years or to England, right, like 500 years or like let's just do let's just talk like let's just do let's just talk like let's just do let's just talk Europe broadly. There were very few Europe broadly. There were very few Europe broadly. There were very few places where you as an individual places where you as an individual places where you as an individual citizen had rights to own private citizen had rights to own private citizen had rights to own private property. There were very few places property. There were very few places property. There were very few places where you could say I have this thing where you could say I have this thing where you could say I have this thing and it doesn't belong to the king or it and it doesn't belong to the king or it and it doesn't belong to the king or it doesn't belong to whatever the local doesn't belong to whatever the local doesn't belong to whatever the local lord is. Like everything was the lord is. Like everything was the lord is. Like everything was the property of the lords of the higher property of the lords of the higher property of the lords of the higher class of the upper class. It was endowed class of the upper class. It was endowed class of the upper class. It was endowed to them as vested to them by birthright to them as vested to them by birthright to them as vested to them by birthright for centuries. Same in Asia, same in the for centuries. Same in Asia, same in the for centuries. Same in Asia, same in the Middle East, same in Africa. I mean like Middle East, same in Africa. I mean like Middle East, same in Africa. I mean like every nation started out with this every nation started out with this every nation started out with this system where people didn't have rights system where people didn't have rights system where people didn't have rights to private property. Those who had kind to private property. Those who had kind to private property. Those who had kind of these systems above could decide who of these systems above could decide who of these systems above could decide who got what. So the United States was got what. So the United States was got what. So the United States was founded on one of the principles of founded on one of the principles of founded on one of the principles of private property for an individual that private property for an individual that private property for an individual that you you know I think when they were you you know I think when they were you you know I think when they were drafting the Declaration of Independence drafting the Declaration of Independence drafting the Declaration of Independence it was about life liberty and the it was about life liberty and the it was about life liberty and the pursuit of property and they later pursuit of property and they later pursuit of property and they later changed it to pursuit of happiness and changed it to pursuit of happiness and changed it to pursuit of happiness and the pursuit of property was really the the pursuit of property was really the the pursuit of property was really the measure of what you've accumulated as an measure of what you've accumulated as an measure of what you've accumulated as an individual. You now have a right to individual. You now have a right to individual. You now have a right to accumulate things. You now have a right accumulate things. You now have a right accumulate things. You now have a right to build value to build wealth to build to build value to build wealth to build to build value to build wealth to build a house and and have your family in your a house and and have your family in your a house and and have your family in your house and have all these things. That house and have all these things. That house and have all these things. That was a principle of the United States.

was a principle of the United States. was a principle of the United States. I'm all for taxes when people transact. I'm all for taxes when people transact. I'm all for taxes when people transact. When they turn their stock that they've When they turn their stock that they've When they turn their stock that they've held for a couple years into cash and held for a couple years into cash and held for a couple years into cash and buy something with it, boom, tax. You buy something with it, boom, tax. You buy something with it, boom, tax. You get taxed on that. If that's the right get taxed on that. If that's the right get taxed on that. If that's the right model, that's when you should get taxed, model, that's when you should get taxed, model, that's when you should get taxed, right? Then when you're able to turn right? Then when you're able to turn right? Then when you're able to turn that asset that you own into another that asset that you own into another that asset that you own into another asset. So that's what we do today. asset. So that's what we do today. asset. So that's what we do today. That's an income tax or a capital gains That's an income tax or a capital gains That's an income tax or a capital gains tax, like when you realize that gain. tax, like when you realize that gain. tax, like when you realize that gain. But if I go into your shares and I'm But if I go into your shares and I'm But if I go into your shares and I'm like, "Hey, I'm going to take 5% of your like, "Hey, I'm going to take 5% of your like, "Hey, I'm going to take 5% of your shares." What are you losing? Well, you shares." What are you losing? Well, you shares." What are you losing? Well, you can't use those shares to buy anything can't use those shares to buy anything can't use those shares to buy anything because if as soon as you try and buy because if as soon as you try and buy because if as soon as you try and buy something, you owe tax on those shares. something, you owe tax on those shares. something, you owe tax on those shares. So, by taking away your shares before So, by taking away your shares before So, by taking away your shares before you've actually transacted with them, you've actually transacted with them, you've actually transacted with them, before you've actually sold them, or before you've actually sold them, or before you've actually sold them, or taking away your private property, your taking away your private property, your taking away your private property, your home, or giving the government the right home, or giving the government the right home, or giving the government the right to come in your garage and audit to come in your garage and audit to come in your garage and audit everything you own, and say, "Hey, this everything you own, and say, "Hey, this everything you own, and say, "Hey, this year we're doing a 2% tax that is year we're doing a 2% tax that is year we're doing a 2% tax that is antithetical to what the United States antithetical to what the United States antithetical to what the United States was founded on, which was a founding was founded on, which was a founding was founded on, which was a founding principle of private property." Now, if principle of private property." Now, if principle of private property." Now, if your property goes up in value, and then your property goes up in value, and then your property goes up in value, and then you eventually turn it into some other you eventually turn it into some other you eventually turn it into some other property, that's a transaction. And property, that's a transaction. And property, that's a transaction. And that's when you get taxed. That's how that's when you get taxed. That's how that's when you get taxed. That's how the system's set up. So if we have an the system's set up. So if we have an the system's set up. So if we have an issue with people having too much issue with people having too much issue with people having too much wealth, that's the moment to increase wealth, that's the moment to increase wealth, that's the moment to increase the tax rate. That's capital gains tax, the tax rate. That's capital gains tax, the tax rate. That's capital gains tax, income tax on high earners. Those two income tax on high earners. Those two income tax on high earners. Those two things can get you 97% of the way there.

things can get you 97% of the way there. things can get you 97% of the way there. And you're not really going to gain And you're not really going to gain And you're not really going to gain much. You know, separately, we can kind much. You know, separately, we can kind much. You know, separately, we can kind of talk about the numbers on this, but of talk about the numbers on this, but of talk about the numbers on this, but like tax the rich, all for it, but tax like tax the rich, all for it, but tax like tax the rich, all for it, but tax the rich when they transact, when they the rich when they transact, when they the rich when they transact, when they sell, when they when they have a capital sell, when they when they have a capital sell, when they when they have a capital gain, if they borrow against their gain, if they borrow against their gain, if they borrow against their assets. This is another thing that's assets. This is another thing that's assets. This is another thing that's that's wrong about our system today. If that's wrong about our system today. If that's wrong about our system today. If I'm very wealthy, I own a bunch of stock I'm very wealthy, I own a bunch of stock I'm very wealthy, I own a bunch of stock and I've never sold any of the stock. If and I've never sold any of the stock. If and I've never sold any of the stock. If I borrow against my stock to go buy a I borrow against my stock to go buy a I borrow against my stock to go buy a yacht, I don't pay taxes. yacht, I don't pay taxes. yacht, I don't pay taxes. That should be a taxable event. We That should be a taxable event. We That should be a taxable event. We should fix that. That's an easy fix in should fix that. That's an easy fix in should fix that. That's an easy fix in the tax system. I'm not taking away your the tax system. I'm not taking away your the tax system. I'm not taking away your private property, but as soon as you private property, but as soon as you private property, but as soon as you borrow against that, it's effectively borrow against that, it's effectively borrow against that, it's effectively like transacting on that property. So, like transacting on that property. So, like transacting on that property. So, that's a moment to pay a tax. And if we that's a moment to pay a tax. And if we that's a moment to pay a tax. And if we think that the rich aren't paying enough think that the rich aren't paying enough think that the rich aren't paying enough taxes, you can raise income tax or taxes, you can raise income tax or taxes, you can raise income tax or capital gains taxes to get them to pay capital gains taxes to get them to pay capital gains taxes to get them to pay more. This is what I was going to say, more. This is what I was going to say, more. This is what I was going to say, but you you arrived at it was most but you you arrived at it was most but you you arrived at it was most people that own stock in big companies people that own stock in big companies people that own stock in big companies will just borrow against their stock and will just borrow against their stock and will just borrow against their stock and they never pay a tax. they never pay a tax. they never pay a tax. >> I didn't know this until I was I'm going >> I didn't know this until I was I'm going >> I didn't know this until I was I'm going to say 26. And my company had gone to say 26. And my company had gone to say 26. And my company had gone public and the this bank in Europe public and the this bank in Europe public and the this bank in Europe approached me and said, "By the way, approached me and said, "By the way, approached me and said, "By the way, we'll give you 20% of whatever your your we'll give you 20% of whatever your your we'll give you 20% of whatever your your the value of the stock you have in my the value of the stock you have in my the value of the stock you have in my company called Ocean AG company called Ocean AG company called Ocean AG >> is a tax-free loan." I was like, >> is a tax-free loan." I was like, >> is a tax-free loan." I was like, "Explain this to me."

"Explain this to me." "Explain this to me." So, you'll just send me millions of So, you'll just send me millions of So, you'll just send me millions of pounds and I don't have to pay tax. pounds and I don't have to pay tax. pounds and I don't have to pay tax. >> You don't have to sell your shares. >> You don't have to sell your shares. >> You don't have to sell your shares. >> You don't have to sell anything. I said, >> You don't have to sell anything. I said, >> You don't have to sell anything. I said, "Well, look at the rest of my "Well, look at the rest of my "Well, look at the rest of my portfolio." And I had some Facebook portfolio." And I had some Facebook portfolio." And I had some Facebook stock at the time. They're like, "We'll stock at the time. They're like, "We'll stock at the time. They're like, "We'll give you 50% to 60% loan to value on give you 50% to 60% loan to value on give you 50% to 60% loan to value on that. I.e., if you have a million that. I.e., if you have a million that. I.e., if you have a million dollars of Facebook stock, we will dollars of Facebook stock, we will dollars of Facebook stock, we will transfer you today 700 grand taxree and transfer you today 700 grand taxree and transfer you today 700 grand taxree and I can do without whatever I want." I I can do without whatever I want." I I can do without whatever I want." I thought, "Fucking hell, this is what the thought, "Fucking hell, this is what the thought, "Fucking hell, this is what the rich do." rich do." rich do." >> That's exactly right. And the truth is >> That's exactly right. And the truth is >> That's exactly right. And the truth is that no one talks about behind closed that no one talks about behind closed that no one talks about behind closed doors. Everyone knows that it needs to doors. Everyone knows that it needs to doors. Everyone knows that it needs to change, change, change, >> but no one wants to say it because >> but no one wants to say it because >> but no one wants to say it because >> I'm saying it. >> I'm saying it. >> I'm saying it. >> Yeah, it's >> Yeah, it's >> Yeah, it's >> got to change. >> got to change. >> got to change. >> What's interesting about that is say >> What's interesting about that is say >> What's interesting about that is say that I have 10 million of Facebook stock that I have 10 million of Facebook stock that I have 10 million of Facebook stock and I I take a loan and they give me 5 and I I take a loan and they give me 5 and I I take a loan and they give me 5 million in cash. What a rich person then million in cash. What a rich person then million in cash. What a rich person then does is they take that 5 million and does is they take that 5 million and does is they take that 5 million and they go and buy other assets. they go and buy other assets. they go and buy other assets. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> Exactly. Right. >> And then they start acquiring more and >> And then they start acquiring more and >> And then they start acquiring more and more assets. That's what's unfair about more assets. That's what's unfair about more assets. That's what's unfair about the system because then when you have the system because then when you have the system because then when you have capital, you're accumulating more capital, you're accumulating more capital, you're accumulating more capital while labor, if you haven't made capital while labor, if you haven't made capital while labor, if you haven't made that cross that chasm from labor to that cross that chasm from labor to that cross that chasm from labor to capital, you're still here grinding capital, you're still here grinding capital, you're still here grinding every month, grinding every week, trying every month, grinding every week, trying every month, grinding every week, trying to pay your freaking bills, and then to pay your freaking bills, and then to pay your freaking bills, and then these guys have all these shenanigans these guys have all these shenanigans these guys have all these shenanigans that are going on. Yeah, that are going on. Yeah, that are going on. Yeah, >> it is wrong and it needs to be fixed.

>> it is wrong and it needs to be fixed. >> it is wrong and it needs to be fixed. The answer though is not taking private The answer though is not taking private The answer though is not taking private property. As soon as you start taking property. As soon as you start taking property. As soon as you start taking private property, those gates are open. private property, those gates are open. private property, those gates are open. By the way, it's not even going to be By the way, it's not even going to be By the way, it's not even going to be constitutional in the United States. The constitutional in the United States. The constitutional in the United States. The fifth amendment has this taker clause. fifth amendment has this taker clause. fifth amendment has this taker clause. you know, it's not it's legally like not you know, it's not it's legally like not you know, it's not it's legally like not going to win in federal court. It could going to win in federal court. It could going to win in federal court. It could work in some states. Some states there's work in some states. Some states there's work in some states. Some states there's seven states that actually have a seven states that actually have a seven states that actually have a constitutional ban on private property constitutional ban on private property constitutional ban on private property tax like this. There's uh you know 43 tax like this. There's uh you know 43 tax like this. There's uh you know 43 states where it's game on and we'll see states where it's game on and we'll see states where it's game on and we'll see how they play out in the courts as they how they play out in the courts as they how they play out in the courts as they try to pass these wealth taxes as well. try to pass these wealth taxes as well. try to pass these wealth taxes as well. But these are asset seizure taxes there. But these are asset seizure taxes there. But these are asset seizure taxes there. You you can have a wealth tax by raising You you can have a wealth tax by raising You you can have a wealth tax by raising capital gains, make high income or high capital gains, make high income or high capital gains, make high income or high asset people pay more taxes or whatever asset people pay more taxes or whatever asset people pay more taxes or whatever when they sell stuff or when they buy when they sell stuff or when they buy when they sell stuff or when they buy stuff. There's a lot of ways to tax stuff. There's a lot of ways to tax stuff. There's a lot of ways to tax wealth. But taking assets from people wealth. But taking assets from people wealth. But taking assets from people after they've paid their taxes or before after they've paid their taxes or before after they've paid their taxes or before they've paid their taxes is not the they've paid their taxes is not the they've paid their taxes is not the right way to do it. right way to do it. right way to do it. >> What will ultimately happen? >> What will ultimately happen? >> What will ultimately happen? >> So the ultimate outcome will be that 51% >> So the ultimate outcome will be that 51% >> So the ultimate outcome will be that 51% of people will say, "Hey, give me all of people will say, "Hey, give me all of people will say, "Hey, give me all the stuff that the 49% have." What would the stuff that the 49% have." What would the stuff that the 49% have." What would stop them from doing that? Because stop them from doing that? Because stop them from doing that? Because ultimately you can take as much as you ultimately you can take as much as you ultimately you can take as much as you want from a minority of people and want from a minority of people and want from a minority of people and distribute it to the majority. And that distribute it to the majority. And that distribute it to the majority. And that minority starts out with a few minority starts out with a few minority starts out with a few billionaires, then a couple more 50 billionaires, then a couple more 50 billionaires, then a couple more 50 millionaires, then a couple more 10 millionaires, then a couple more 10 millionaires, then a couple more 10 millionaires, then millionaires, then millionaires, then millionaires, then millionaires, then millionaires, then 100,000. And there's no limit to where 100,000. And there's no limit to where 100,000. And there's no limit to where this thing goes. And that is socialism.

this thing goes. And that is socialism. this thing goes. And that is socialism. >> And what what does that do in terms of >> And what what does that do in terms of >> And what what does that do in terms of how talent moves how talent moves how talent moves >> and how people, you know, move to >> and how people, you know, move to >> and how people, you know, move to different places. different places. different places. >> I know billionaires. >> I know billionaires. >> I know billionaires. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Many of them have moved or are planning >> Many of them have moved or are planning >> Many of them have moved or are planning to move out of California. Yeah. to move out of California. Yeah. to move out of California. Yeah. >> Just on the threat of this. >> Just on the threat of this. >> Just on the threat of this. >> And [clears throat] people say, "F them. >> And [clears throat] people say, "F them. >> And [clears throat] people say, "F them. Good riddance. Get rid of them. You Good riddance. Get rid of them. You Good riddance. Get rid of them. You know, the top 1% of taxpayers in know, the top 1% of taxpayers in know, the top 1% of taxpayers in California pay the majority of taxes in California pay the majority of taxes in California pay the majority of taxes in the state. I think it's probably it's the state. I think it's probably it's the state. I think it's probably it's definitely north of 40%, but it's definitely north of 40%, but it's definitely north of 40%, but it's probably the majority. probably the majority. probably the majority. >> The top 1% of earners pay 40 to 50% of >> The top 1% of earners pay 40 to 50% of >> The top 1% of earners pay 40 to 50% of California's total personal income tax California's total personal income tax California's total personal income tax depending on stock market capital gains depending on stock market capital gains depending on stock market capital gains performance. performance. performance. >> There you go. So, that 1% are the people >> There you go. So, that 1% are the people >> There you go. So, that 1% are the people I'm talking about that are leaving the I'm talking about that are leaving the I'm talking about that are leaving the state because they see where this is state because they see where this is state because they see where this is headed. I don't think California wants headed. I don't think California wants headed. I don't think California wants that. [laughter] that. [laughter] that. [laughter] Those are very productive people for the Those are very productive people for the Those are very productive people for the state. They're people that create state. They're people that create state. They're people that create companies that hire people that pay companies that hire people that pay companies that hire people that pay well, go to fancy restaurants, pay for well, go to fancy restaurants, pay for well, go to fancy restaurants, pay for cars. I mean, they support the economy. cars. I mean, they support the economy. cars. I mean, they support the economy. It's not just the taxes, but they're a It's not just the taxes, but they're a It's not just the taxes, but they're a big part of capital flowing through the big part of capital flowing through the big part of capital flowing through the economy. We saw this happen in France.

economy. We saw this happen in France. economy. We saw this happen in France. You know, France had this wealth tax and You know, France had this wealth tax and You know, France had this wealth tax and then their total tax revenue declined by then their total tax revenue declined by then their total tax revenue declined by more than they were making on the wealth more than they were making on the wealth more than they were making on the wealth tax because everyone left France. Then tax because everyone left France. Then tax because everyone left France. Then they stopped doing the wealth tax and they stopped doing the wealth tax and they stopped doing the wealth tax and everyone came back and the income came everyone came back and the income came everyone came back and the income came back. So, this is a wellstudied kind of back. So, this is a wellstudied kind of back. So, this is a wellstudied kind of case. So, I don't think that a wealth case. So, I don't think that a wealth case. So, I don't think that a wealth tax or an asset seizure tax is the tax or an asset seizure tax is the tax or an asset seizure tax is the solution. I think we've got to fix all solution. I think we've got to fix all solution. I think we've got to fix all the other stuff that we've talked about the other stuff that we've talked about the other stuff that we've talked about and we've got to fix the government and we've got to fix the government and we've got to fix the government spending problem. And if we can do those spending problem. And if we can do those spending problem. And if we can do those two things, then I think we can bring two things, then I think we can bring two things, then I think we can bring inflation down. We can bring the wealth inflation down. We can bring the wealth inflation down. We can bring the wealth inequality down and give more people the inequality down and give more people the inequality down and give more people the ability to make that transition. But I ability to make that transition. But I ability to make that transition. But I do think every politician should be do think every politician should be do think every politician should be talking about the focus on what percent talking about the focus on what percent talking about the focus on what percent of people in the United States every of people in the United States every of people in the United States every year are moving from labor to capital. year are moving from labor to capital. year are moving from labor to capital. How many people can say, "Hey, I've got How many people can say, "Hey, I've got How many people can say, "Hey, I've got enough cash to retire if I wanted to." enough cash to retire if I wanted to." enough cash to retire if I wanted to." That's what we want to try and get That's what we want to try and get That's what we want to try and get everyone towards. Not just convincing everyone towards. Not just convincing everyone towards. Not just convincing people, and this is one of the great people, and this is one of the great people, and this is one of the great lies, convincing everyone that the great lies, convincing everyone that the great lies, convincing everyone that the great American dream is to own a house. When American dream is to own a house. When American dream is to own a house. When owning a house for a lot of Americans owning a house for a lot of Americans owning a house for a lot of Americans ends up putting all your capital in one ends up putting all your capital in one ends up putting all your capital in one asset, and you've got to basically get asset, and you've got to basically get asset, and you've got to basically get the price of housing to go up every year the price of housing to go up every year the price of housing to go up every year to keep everyone moving up the ladder. to keep everyone moving up the ladder. to keep everyone moving up the ladder. So now, fast forward 30, 40, 50 years, So now, fast forward 30, 40, 50 years, So now, fast forward 30, 40, 50 years, young people can't afford to buy a house young people can't afford to buy a house young people can't afford to buy a house anymore because we've pushed the asset anymore because we've pushed the asset anymore because we've pushed the asset value up so much to try and make sure value up so much to try and make sure value up so much to try and make sure that everyone's got good good household that everyone's got good good household that everyone's got good good household wealth. We are told that I mean that's wealth. We are told that I mean that's wealth. We are told that I mean that's the sort of central idea once you leave the sort of central idea once you leave the sort of central idea once you leave university is to figure out how quickly university is to figure out how quickly university is to figure out how quickly you can get a mortgage or buy a house.

you can get a mortgage or buy a house. you can get a mortgage or buy a house. >> Great lie. It's one of the great lies. >> Great lie. It's one of the great lies. >> Great lie. It's one of the great lies. And there's a lot of countries where And there's a lot of countries where And there's a lot of countries where people have been able to accumulate people have been able to accumulate people have been able to accumulate capital and jump that that ravine from capital and jump that that ravine from capital and jump that that ravine from labor to capital much more quickly when labor to capital much more quickly when labor to capital much more quickly when they don't buy a house because they can they don't buy a house because they can they don't buy a house because they can invest in stuff. They can buy, you know, invest in stuff. They can buy, you know, invest in stuff. They can buy, you know, the the S&P 500 which you can just buy the the S&P 500 which you can just buy the the S&P 500 which you can just buy on an Erade or Robin Hood account and on an Erade or Robin Hood account and on an Erade or Robin Hood account and you can just own it on average will make you can just own it on average will make you can just own it on average will make you 10 11% a year. You just put your you 10 11% a year. You just put your you 10 11% a year. You just put your money in that you're making 10 11% a money in that you're making 10 11% a money in that you're making 10 11% a year and it can go up every year and you year and it can go up every year and you year and it can go up every year and you don't have to pay taxes. You don't have don't have to pay taxes. You don't have don't have to pay taxes. You don't have to pay property tax. You don't have to to pay property tax. You don't have to to pay property tax. You don't have to pay insurance. You don't have to deal pay insurance. You don't have to deal pay insurance. You don't have to deal with repairs and maintenance. All that with repairs and maintenance. All that with repairs and maintenance. All that sort of stuff. So, a lot of people would sort of stuff. So, a lot of people would sort of stuff. So, a lot of people would have been better off, depending on the have been better off, depending on the have been better off, depending on the markets that they're in. There's some markets that they're in. There's some markets that they're in. There's some markets that that ballooned, but a lot markets that that ballooned, but a lot markets that that ballooned, but a lot of people would have been better off of people would have been better off of people would have been better off over the last 30 years, actually owning over the last 30 years, actually owning over the last 30 years, actually owning the S&P 500 than owning their home and the S&P 500 than owning their home and the S&P 500 than owning their home and paying for the rent on a home. paying for the rent on a home. paying for the rent on a home. >> One of the things I see in the comment >> One of the things I see in the comment >> One of the things I see in the comment section whenever someone makes that section whenever someone makes that section whenever someone makes that point is you'll have someone who bought point is you'll have someone who bought point is you'll have someone who bought a house 20 years ago saying, "Well, a house 20 years ago saying, "Well, a house 20 years ago saying, "Well, listen, I bought a house 20 years ago listen, I bought a house 20 years ago listen, I bought a house 20 years ago for this amount, and now it's worth for this amount, and now it's worth for this amount, and now it's worth this." And this is every single time this." And this is every single time this." And this is every single time that I see this this argument being made that I see this this argument being made that I see this this argument being made from financial advisors or investors, from financial advisors or investors, from financial advisors or investors, that is always the top comment is, that is always the top comment is, that is always the top comment is, "Well, I bought one and I did good."

"Well, I bought one and I did good." "Well, I bought one and I did good." >> Yep. It actually indicates a problem, >> Yep. It actually indicates a problem, >> Yep. It actually indicates a problem, which is if your house went up in price which is if your house went up in price which is if your house went up in price so much, that house is much less so much, that house is much less so much, that house is much less affordable to a young person that's affordable to a young person that's affordable to a young person that's going to buy it next. And that's what we going to buy it next. And that's what we going to buy it next. And that's what we fundamentally done with this asset fundamentally done with this asset fundamentally done with this asset class, residential real estate. We've class, residential real estate. We've class, residential real estate. We've created a system whereby residential created a system whereby residential created a system whereby residential real estate prices go up so much and real estate prices go up so much and real estate prices go up so much and there's a whole bunch of policies around there's a whole bunch of policies around there's a whole bunch of policies around making this happen. making this happen. making this happen. >> Got a graph here showing all the things >> Got a graph here showing all the things >> Got a graph here showing all the things that have gone up and you can see that have gone up and you can see that have gone up and you can see housing is one of them. housing is one of them. housing is one of them. >> Yeah. The stuff on the bottom the >> Yeah. The stuff on the bottom the >> Yeah. The stuff on the bottom the government doesn't touch. The stuff on government doesn't touch. The stuff on government doesn't touch. The stuff on the top the government touches. And so the top the government touches. And so the top the government touches. And so the more the government's involved, the the more the government's involved, the the more the government's involved, the more expensive these things get. But all more expensive these things get. But all more expensive these things get. But all of the policy around residential real of the policy around residential real of the policy around residential real estate has allowed the middle class in estate has allowed the middle class in estate has allowed the middle class in America, which has the majority of America, which has the majority of America, which has the majority of wealth, and I'll give you the statistics wealth, and I'll give you the statistics wealth, and I'll give you the statistics in a minute, to grow their asset base, in a minute, to grow their asset base, in a minute, to grow their asset base, to accumulate more assets, to become to accumulate more assets, to become to accumulate more assets, to become wealthier. All the boomers, they're so wealthier. All the boomers, they're so wealthier. All the boomers, they're so wealthy because they owned all these wealthy because they owned all these wealthy because they owned all these houses. And now young people graduating houses. And now young people graduating houses. And now young people graduating college can't afford a house. It is a college can't afford a house. It is a college can't afford a house. It is a bad fact that a lot of people got very bad fact that a lot of people got very bad fact that a lot of people got very wealthy by owning a home because it wealthy by owning a home because it wealthy by owning a home because it means that the next generation is going means that the next generation is going means that the next generation is going to say, "I want socialism cuz I can't to say, "I want socialism cuz I can't to say, "I want socialism cuz I can't afford a home." That's the moment we're afford a home." That's the moment we're afford a home." That's the moment we're in. 40 million Americans graduated from in. 40 million Americans graduated from in. 40 million Americans graduated from colleges in the United States in the colleges in the United States in the colleges in the United States in the last 10 years. 45 million. So if you do last 10 years. 45 million. So if you do last 10 years. 45 million. So if you do the math on this, that's a large number the math on this, that's a large number the math on this, that's a large number of people that are now on average of people that are now on average of people that are now on average encumbered with some amount of student encumbered with some amount of student encumbered with some amount of student debt, facing a challenging job market.

debt, facing a challenging job market. debt, facing a challenging job market. And then the only way to buy a home is And then the only way to buy a home is And then the only way to buy a home is you got to come up with a million bucks. you got to come up with a million bucks. you got to come up with a million bucks. And you know, it leads to this problem And you know, it leads to this problem And you know, it leads to this problem where everyone's like, "Man, I need mom where everyone's like, "Man, I need mom where everyone's like, "Man, I need mom Donnie." So what would you say then to Donnie." So what would you say then to Donnie." So what would you say then to people that are in that 62% was it people that are in that 62% was it people that are in that 62% was it >> 63 >> 63 >> 63 >> 63% of people >> 63% of people >> 63% of people >> and that statistic changes year to year >> and that statistic changes year to year >> and that statistic changes year to year but that's roughly the number 63% of but that's roughly the number 63% of but that's roughly the number 63% of Americans you know less than $500 of Americans you know less than $500 of Americans you know less than $500 of savings and working paycheck to paycheck savings and working paycheck to paycheck savings and working paycheck to paycheck and can't pay for a fiscal emergency. and can't pay for a fiscal emergency. and can't pay for a fiscal emergency. >> So for those people the the 63% >> So for those people the the 63% >> So for those people the the 63% who you're telling them that buying a who you're telling them that buying a who you're telling them that buying a house is now like unaffordable it's and house is now like unaffordable it's and house is now like unaffordable it's and also it's potentially not a good also it's potentially not a good also it's potentially not a good investment if they're trying to sort of investment if they're trying to sort of investment if they're trying to sort of cross that cousin and get over to the cross that cousin and get over to the cross that cousin and get over to the side where they have assets. What would side where they have assets. What would side where they have assets. What would what would your prescription be for what would your prescription be for what would your prescription be for them? What should they do? them? What should they do? them? What should they do? >> Man, that's a great question. People >> Man, that's a great question. People >> Man, that's a great question. People will challenge it, but I would have will challenge it, but I would have will challenge it, but I would have never thought that podcasting would be never thought that podcasting would be never thought that podcasting would be such a massive business. I would have such a massive business. I would have such a massive business. I would have never thought that being an Instagram never thought that being an Instagram never thought that being an Instagram influencer would be such a massive influencer would be such a massive influencer would be such a massive business or a Tik Tok influencer. I business or a Tik Tok influencer. I business or a Tik Tok influencer. I would have never thought that individual would have never thought that individual would have never thought that individual artists could publish online and make artists could publish online and make artists could publish online and make money without getting a record deal. I money without getting a record deal. I money without getting a record deal. I would have never thought that individual would have never thought that individual would have never thought that individual artists would be able to sell their work artists would be able to sell their work artists would be able to sell their work and make a living on eBay and Etsy. I and make a living on eBay and Etsy. I and make a living on eBay and Etsy. I would have never thought that crafts would have never thought that crafts would have never thought that crafts people would be able to find jobs people would be able to find jobs people would be able to find jobs through the internet. I I think the through the internet. I I think the through the internet. I I think the internet has been this incredible internet has been this incredible internet has been this incredible enabler of millions of new ways to work, enabler of millions of new ways to work, enabler of millions of new ways to work, of new ways to earn an income. And a lot of new ways to earn an income. And a lot of new ways to earn an income. And a lot of people will roll their eyes and say, of people will roll their eyes and say, of people will roll their eyes and say, "But that's not what the system was "But that's not what the system was "But that's not what the system was supposed to have set me up for. The supposed to have set me up for. The supposed to have set me up for. The system failed us." Maybe the system did system failed us." Maybe the system did system failed us." Maybe the system did fail you. And maybe the government's fail you. And maybe the government's fail you. And maybe the government's solution wasn't the right solution, but solution wasn't the right solution, but solution wasn't the right solution, but human agency is what got all these

human agency is what got all these human agency is what got all these people there. They all got to this people there. They all got to this people there. They all got to this place. Did the government give you your place. Did the government give you your place. Did the government give you your job as a podcaster? Did the government job as a podcaster? Did the government job as a podcaster? Did the government teach you how to podcast and build this teach you how to podcast and build this teach you how to podcast and build this incredible media empire that you've incredible media empire that you've incredible media empire that you've built? I don't know if the government built? I don't know if the government built? I don't know if the government played much of a role in it. I think you played much of a role in it. I think you played much of a role in it. I think you played the role in it. I don't know. You played the role in it. I don't know. You played the role in it. I don't know. You tell me if I'm wrong. But I think that tell me if I'm wrong. But I think that tell me if I'm wrong. But I think that this is really important for a lot of this is really important for a lot of this is really important for a lot of people to observe firstly, which is the people to observe firstly, which is the people to observe firstly, which is the government isn't going to save government isn't going to save government isn't going to save individuals. individuals. individuals. The government's going to make things The government's going to make things The government's going to make things harder for individuals to find their harder for individuals to find their harder for individuals to find their path. If I have to go and start a barber path. If I have to go and start a barber path. If I have to go and start a barber shop, I got to go get all these shop, I got to go get all these shop, I got to go get all these cosmetology licenses. I got to go figure cosmetology licenses. I got to go figure cosmetology licenses. I got to go figure out a way to go to school, pay thousands out a way to go to school, pay thousands out a way to go to school, pay thousands of dollars, get health inspections done. of dollars, get health inspections done. of dollars, get health inspections done. There's a lot of government layers that There's a lot of government layers that There's a lot of government layers that stop me from doing that work. There's a stop me from doing that work. There's a stop me from doing that work. There's a lot of ways that the government actually lot of ways that the government actually lot of ways that the government actually inhibits people's agency and makes it inhibits people's agency and makes it inhibits people's agency and makes it harder for them to do the things that harder for them to do the things that harder for them to do the things that they want to do and progress. I think they want to do and progress. I think they want to do and progress. I think that's just fundamental for me, one of that's just fundamental for me, one of that's just fundamental for me, one of the observable truths. But I think the the observable truths. But I think the the observable truths. But I think the second thing is I never discount human second thing is I never discount human second thing is I never discount human agency. There was this great um podcast agency. There was this great um podcast agency. There was this great um podcast done years ago by those guys at the done years ago by those guys at the done years ago by those guys at the Hoover Institute where they talked about Hoover Institute where they talked about Hoover Institute where they talked about the success of China and a lot of the success of China and a lot of the success of China and a lot of people, you know, where China grew GDP people, you know, where China grew GDP people, you know, where China grew GDP per capita from like 3,000 to 30,000 or per capita from like 3,000 to 30,000 or per capita from like 3,000 to 30,000 or whatever it was and they're like, "Man, whatever it was and they're like, "Man, whatever it was and they're like, "Man, Chinese central planning is brilliant.

Chinese central planning is brilliant. Chinese central planning is brilliant. They're so good at this." And these guys They're so good at this." And these guys They're so good at this." And these guys made the argument which I discounted at made the argument which I discounted at made the argument which I discounted at the time but I often think about the time but I often think about the time but I often think about nowadays that it was actually the agency nowadays that it was actually the agency nowadays that it was actually the agency of the individual choice, the of the individual choice, the of the individual choice, the entrepreneurship, the drive, the entrepreneurship, the drive, the entrepreneurship, the drive, the motivation of the population of the motivation of the population of the motivation of the population of the individuals in China, not central individuals in China, not central individuals in China, not central planning, but basically the government planning, but basically the government planning, but basically the government enabled free markets. They allowed enabled free markets. They allowed enabled free markets. They allowed people to work. They allowed people to people to work. They allowed people to people to work. They allowed people to trade. They allowed people to create trade. They allowed people to create trade. They allowed people to create value for each other to do something value for each other to do something value for each other to do something that someone else might want. They that someone else might want. They that someone else might want. They looked around and they said, "I think looked around and they said, "I think looked around and they said, "I think you want this." and they started making you want this." and they started making you want this." and they started making it and when the government loosened the it and when the government loosened the it and when the government loosened the shackles on individuals that population shackles on individuals that population shackles on individuals that population grew the economy and the government grew the economy and the government grew the economy and the government still has a big role in central planning still has a big role in central planning still has a big role in central planning in China but it was a really important in China but it was a really important in China but it was a really important point if you think about all the success point if you think about all the success point if you think about all the success that's come from the United States it's that's come from the United States it's that's come from the United States it's not a central message that the not a central message that the not a central message that the government said let's do this and then government said let's do this and then government said let's do this and then we're going to do this and we're going we're going to do this and we're going we're going to do this and we're going to do this it's individuals making their to do this it's individuals making their to do this it's individuals making their own choices you've seen what people want own choices you've seen what people want own choices you've seen what people want to learn what people want to watch what to learn what people want to watch what to learn what people want to watch what they're interested in and you give it to they're interested in and you give it to they're interested in and you give it to them you create value for them you them you create value for them you them you create value for them you deliver that value and you've you've deliver that value and you've you've deliver that value and you've you've earned something from that people are earned something from that people are earned something from that people are willing to pay for that. And I think willing to pay for that. And I think willing to pay for that. And I think that that's core to kind of where we can that that's core to kind of where we can that that's core to kind of where we can go from here. And I don't think we teach go from here. And I don't think we teach go from here. And I don't think we teach it in schools. I don't think we teach it it in schools. I don't think we teach it it in schools. I don't think we teach it as a value. We've lost that value of as a value. We've lost that value of as a value. We've lost that value of agency. The importance of the individual agency. The importance of the individual agency. The importance of the individual taking their own action. Every taking their own action. Every taking their own action. Every conversation we have in every frigin conversation we have in every frigin conversation we have in every frigin context is all about the freaking context is all about the freaking context is all about the freaking government. Government this, do this, do government. Government this, do this, do government. Government this, do this, do this, do this, do this. For me, what this, do this, do this. For me, what this, do this, do this. For me, what individuals can do is limitless. And individuals can do is limitless. And individuals can do is limitless. And that's where I think we fall short.

that's where I think we fall short. that's where I think we fall short. Every day someone should ask themselves, Every day someone should ask themselves, Every day someone should ask themselves, I tell my kids this, but what did you do I tell my kids this, but what did you do I tell my kids this, but what did you do today that someone else valued? And if today that someone else valued? And if today that someone else valued? And if you focus on figuring out something that you focus on figuring out something that you focus on figuring out something that you can do that someone else can value, you can do that someone else can value, you can do that someone else can value, then you do that over and over again, then you do that over and over again, then you do that over and over again, rinse and repeat. I think there's paths rinse and repeat. I think there's paths rinse and repeat. I think there's paths for people. for people. for people. >> So, couple of counter-arguments here. >> So, couple of counter-arguments here. >> So, couple of counter-arguments here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we can stress test this thinking. >> So, we can stress test this thinking. >> So, we can stress test this thinking. Um, you pointed at me and said I was, Um, you pointed at me and said I was, Um, you pointed at me and said I was, you know, I started podcasts, I started you know, I started podcasts, I started you know, I started podcasts, I started businesses, those businesses grew. Um, businesses, those businesses grew. Um, businesses, those businesses grew. Um, and it was, you know, you were very and it was, you know, you were very and it was, you know, you were very generous in giving me probably more generous in giving me probably more generous in giving me probably more credit than I deserve there. But if I credit than I deserve there. But if I credit than I deserve there. But if I was to, if I was to rebuttal that, I was to, if I was to rebuttal that, I was to, if I was to rebuttal that, I would say, I was born in Africa. Would would say, I was born in Africa. Would would say, I was born in Africa. Would that have been possible in Africa? Would that have been possible in Africa? Would that have been possible in Africa? Would that have been possible in like Nigeria, that have been possible in like Nigeria, that have been possible in like Nigeria, where my mother's from, or would it been where my mother's from, or would it been where my mother's from, or would it been possible in Botswana where I was born? possible in Botswana where I was born? possible in Botswana where I was born? Is it the fact that I moved to the UK Is it the fact that I moved to the UK Is it the fact that I moved to the UK where I had this sort of foundation of where I had this sort of foundation of where I had this sort of foundation of stability because of the government stability because of the government stability because of the government where school was free for us? Healthcare where school was free for us? Healthcare where school was free for us? Healthcare is taken care of. So I never had to is taken care of. So I never had to is taken care of. So I never had to think about those things which allowed think about those things which allowed think about those things which allowed me at 18 years old to like not go to me at 18 years old to like not go to me at 18 years old to like not go to university, take a risk, drop out, be in university, take a risk, drop out, be in university, take a risk, drop out, be in that room. No. When I was sat in that that room. No. When I was sat in that that room. No. When I was sat in that room in Manchester, I actually at one room in Manchester, I actually at one room in Manchester, I actually at one point printed off the jobsekers point printed off the jobsekers point printed off the jobsekers allowance forms, which are basically the allowance forms, which are basically the allowance forms, which are basically the government will give me free money if I government will give me free money if I government will give me free money if I if I get to the point where my if I get to the point where my if I get to the point where my shoplifting of pizzas um is no longer a shoplifting of pizzas um is no longer a shoplifting of pizzas um is no longer a reliable way to feed myself.

reliable way to feed myself. reliable way to feed myself. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I had that form on my desk and it >> But I had that form on my desk and it >> But I had that form on my desk and it was there. And there's maybe something was there. And there's maybe something was there. And there's maybe something psychological about knowing that I had psychological about knowing that I had psychological about knowing that I had this sort of like underlying safety net this sort of like underlying safety net this sort of like underlying safety net where I could rush back a 300 mile round where I could rush back a 300 mile round where I could rush back a 300 mile round trip to my parents in Plymouth and I trip to my parents in Plymouth and I trip to my parents in Plymouth and I could like live in the house or I could could like live in the house or I could could like live in the house or I could fill out this form, this job seekers fill out this form, this job seekers fill out this form, this job seekers allowance form and they would like pay allowance form and they would like pay allowance form and they would like pay me money that allowed me maybe at some me money that allowed me maybe at some me money that allowed me maybe at some deeper level to go and take that risk. deeper level to go and take that risk. deeper level to go and take that risk. And I never even realized the privilege And I never even realized the privilege And I never even realized the privilege of like, oh, there's like healthcare and of like, oh, there's like healthcare and of like, oh, there's like healthcare and there's laws and there's roads and there's laws and there's roads and there's laws and there's roads and there's like this Wi-Fi thing that there's like this Wi-Fi thing that there's like this Wi-Fi thing that allows me with this laptop in my room to allows me with this laptop in my room to allows me with this laptop in my room to like build this website that I built. like build this website that I built. like build this website that I built. Um, so that's the government's Um, so that's the government's Um, so that's the government's involvement in my success. They gave me involvement in my success. They gave me involvement in my success. They gave me this great foundation of stability and this great foundation of stability and this great foundation of stability and infrastructure. infrastructure. infrastructure. >> Great. Great role for government to >> Great. Great role for government to >> Great. Great role for government to play. play. play. >> But the problem is that's a slippery >> But the problem is that's a slippery >> But the problem is that's a slippery slope, right? slope, right? slope, right? >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And so there's balance here. There's >> And so there's balance here. There's >> And so there's balance here. There's nuance of like personal agency, but then nuance of like personal agency, but then nuance of like personal agency, but then also the government, do you need to give also the government, do you need to give also the government, do you need to give me a good foundation? me a good foundation? me a good foundation? >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And it's and it starts >> And it's and it starts >> And it's and it starts >> and the government shouldn't employ you. >> and the government shouldn't employ you. >> and the government shouldn't employ you. And that's the slippery slope that we And that's the slippery slope that we And that's the slippery slope that we end up on. And that's where I worry end up on. And that's where I worry end up on. And that's where I worry about our ability to come back from that about our ability to come back from that about our ability to come back from that because if you do end up with 40 50% of because if you do end up with 40 50% of because if you do end up with 40 50% of Americans getting paid some check from Americans getting paid some check from Americans getting paid some check from the government, it becomes very hard to the government, it becomes very hard to the government, it becomes very hard to get off of that check. And then people get off of that check. And then people get off of that check. And then people vote for that check to get bigger and vote for that check to get bigger and vote for that check to get bigger and bigger.

bigger. bigger. >> The other point I wanted to point out of >> The other point I wanted to point out of >> The other point I wanted to point out of maybe a counterpoint is just like, and maybe a counterpoint is just like, and maybe a counterpoint is just like, and you know this cuz I've heard you say you know this cuz I've heard you say you know this cuz I've heard you say this before, but like there is a this before, but like there is a this before, but like there is a privilege that we both have in terms of privilege that we both have in terms of privilege that we both have in terms of our just our just our just >> nature. Yeah. Nature, nurture, whatever >> nature. Yeah. Nature, nurture, whatever >> nature. Yeah. Nature, nurture, whatever it might be. Yeah. And I I said nature it might be. Yeah. And I I said nature it might be. Yeah. And I I said nature because yeah upbringing implies that our because yeah upbringing implies that our because yeah upbringing implies that our parents were great to us and that's what parents were great to us and that's what parents were great to us and that's what made us whatever. But also the opposite made us whatever. But also the opposite made us whatever. But also the opposite can be true if you think about someone can be true if you think about someone can be true if you think about someone like Elon Musk. You go his dad wasn't like Elon Musk. You go his dad wasn't like Elon Musk. You go his dad wasn't that nice to him. So not necessarily a that nice to him. So not necessarily a that nice to him. So not necessarily a lovely upbringing but the circumstances lovely upbringing but the circumstances lovely upbringing but the circumstances >> he was never without a meal and neither >> he was never without a meal and neither >> he was never without a meal and neither was I. And I mean you know those are was I. And I mean you know those are was I. And I mean you know those are important facts of privilege. the important facts of privilege. the important facts of privilege. the circumstances of the of our upbringing circumstances of the of our upbringing circumstances of the of our upbringing and maybe our nature, maybe our biology, and maybe our nature, maybe our biology, and maybe our nature, maybe our biology, maybe set us up to be the certain type maybe set us up to be the certain type maybe set us up to be the certain type of person where agency, however that's of person where agency, however that's of person where agency, however that's defined. And again, I I pause there defined. And again, I I pause there defined. And again, I I pause there because because because >> I think you're exactly right and I think >> I think you're exactly right and I think >> I think you're exactly right and I think that that's what education should be that that's what education should be that that's what education should be teaching that value that that's that's teaching that value that that's that's teaching that value that that's that's where I think this role of like what's where I think this role of like what's where I think this role of like what's the role of a public school? What's the the role of a public school? What's the the role of a public school? What's the role of this infrastructure that role of this infrastructure that role of this infrastructure that government's building around us? If it's government's building around us? If it's government's building around us? If it's teaching you that your next job is to teaching you that your next job is to teaching you that your next job is to come and work for the city or come and come and work for the city or come and come and work for the city or come and work for the state, it's not teaching work for the state, it's not teaching work for the state, it's not teaching you that you have agency. It's not you that you have agency. It's not you that you have agency. It's not telling you if you if it's telling you telling you if you if it's telling you telling you if you if it's telling you that the only path you're going to have that the only path you're going to have that the only path you're going to have coming out of this rural school is to go coming out of this rural school is to go coming out of this rural school is to go work in the military, it's not teaching work in the military, it's not teaching work in the military, it's not teaching you about your agency. And I'm not you about your agency. And I'm not you about your agency. And I'm not saying it's wrong to do civil service or saying it's wrong to do civil service or saying it's wrong to do civil service or to do military service. I think those to do military service. I think those to do military service. I think those are very important parts of what all of are very important parts of what all of are very important parts of what all of us should strive to do is to support the us should strive to do is to support the us should strive to do is to support the government that makes our society government that makes our society government that makes our society possible. But I think that this idea possible. But I think that this idea possible. But I think that this idea that we should all be proposed as like that we should all be proposed as like that we should all be proposed as like the government role, the government the government role, the government the government role, the government path, the government work is what we path, the government work is what we path, the government work is what we should all be stuck doing for the rest

should all be stuck doing for the rest should all be stuck doing for the rest of our lives is the wrong setup. of our lives is the wrong setup. of our lives is the wrong setup. >> The opposite is though also probably the >> The opposite is though also probably the >> The opposite is though also probably the wrong setup which is that we should all wrong setup which is that we should all wrong setup which is that we should all start a business or become a creator. start a business or become a creator. start a business or become a creator. >> I think that's a mistake too. But I >> I think that's a mistake too. But I >> I think that's a mistake too. But I think that this idea that you can find a think that this idea that you can find a think that this idea that you can find a path where you can provide value to path where you can provide value to path where you can provide value to someone as part of an organization as as someone as part of an organization as as someone as part of an organization as as an individual as a leader you can choose an individual as a leader you can choose an individual as a leader you can choose your path. But the idea that you should your path. But the idea that you should your path. But the idea that you should be accessing your capacity that you can be accessing your capacity that you can be accessing your capacity that you can create value for someone else should be create value for someone else should be create value for someone else should be the objective. the objective. the objective. >> Do you think there's always going to be >> Do you think there's always going to be >> Do you think there's always going to be inequality? inequality? inequality? >> Yes. I mean it's either inequality >> Yes. I mean it's either inequality >> Yes. I mean it's either inequality or it's lack of progress. I think those or it's lack of progress. I think those or it's lack of progress. I think those are the are the are the >> that's the dance. >> that's the dance. >> that's the dance. >> That's the dance. So China's very good >> That's the dance. So China's very good >> That's the dance. So China's very good at this. If you watch their their at this. If you watch their their at this. If you watch their their policy, they just recently shifted to a policy, they just recently shifted to a policy, they just recently shifted to a free market policy. They literally just free market policy. They literally just free market policy. They literally just have like a throttle. Uh, I always have like a throttle. Uh, I always have like a throttle. Uh, I always vision AI has this lever in his big room vision AI has this lever in his big room vision AI has this lever in his big room where he goes like free market, not free where he goes like free market, not free where he goes like free market, not free market. Like he's just kind of like market. Like he's just kind of like market. Like he's just kind of like rolling it back and forth. When you have rolling it back and forth. When you have rolling it back and forth. When you have a free market, people push the frontier. a free market, people push the frontier. a free market, people push the frontier. They discover new things. They make new They discover new things. They make new They discover new things. They make new things that have never been done before. things that have never been done before. things that have never been done before. They create new value and the economy They create new value and the economy They create new value and the economy grows. The problem is it doesn't grow grows. The problem is it doesn't grow grows. The problem is it doesn't grow evenly initially. So like let's say that evenly initially. So like let's say that evenly initially. So like let's say that you came up with a goose that lays you came up with a goose that lays you came up with a goose that lays golden eggs and AI golden eggs and AI golden eggs and AI >> AI and you've got this technology >> AI and you've got this technology >> AI and you've got this technology And this technology is making golden And this technology is making golden And this technology is making golden eggs. And you're getting very wealthy eggs. And you're getting very wealthy eggs. And you're getting very wealthy with these golden eggs. And then that with these golden eggs. And then that with these golden eggs. And then that goose makes two geese and three geese goose makes two geese and three geese goose makes two geese and three geese and four. It starts breeding and you and four. It starts breeding and you and four. It starts breeding and you start selling the goose. And it takes a start selling the goose. And it takes a start selling the goose. And it takes a number of years before everyone has a number of years before everyone has a number of years before everyone has a golden goose. During that time, you've golden goose. During that time, you've golden goose. During that time, you've raced ahead cuz you've got now dozens of raced ahead cuz you've got now dozens of raced ahead cuz you've got now dozens of geese making lots of golden eggs for geese making lots of golden eggs for geese making lots of golden eggs for you. And a lot of people are like, I

you. And a lot of people are like, I you. And a lot of people are like, I want a golden goose. By the time they want a golden goose. By the time they want a golden goose. By the time they get a golden goose, you've now got a get a golden goose, you've now got a get a golden goose, you've now got a million golden geese. And it feels like million golden geese. And it feels like million golden geese. And it feels like inequality. But the truth is now inequality. But the truth is now inequality. But the truth is now everyone here has a golden goose. And if everyone here has a golden goose. And if everyone here has a golden goose. And if you told them 30 years ago you would you told them 30 years ago you would you told them 30 years ago you would have a golden goose, they'd be like, "No have a golden goose, they'd be like, "No have a golden goose, they'd be like, "No way. That'd be amazing." So every day way. That'd be amazing." So every day way. That'd be amazing." So every day they're making the golden goose, they're they're making the golden goose, they're they're making the golden goose, they're printing the money, they're buying stuff printing the money, they're buying stuff printing the money, they're buying stuff with it. That's the problem with with it. That's the problem with with it. That's the problem with progress, whether it's medicine. You progress, whether it's medicine. You progress, whether it's medicine. You know, a lot of medicines today are know, a lot of medicines today are know, a lot of medicines today are million dollars a dose for like CARTT million dollars a dose for like CARTT million dollars a dose for like CARTT therapies, for example. These can save therapies, for example. These can save therapies, for example. These can save you from cancer. Only 50,000 people in you from cancer. Only 50,000 people in you from cancer. Only 50,000 people in the US can get them every year. And the US can get them every year. And the US can get them every year. And there's hundreds of thousands of people there's hundreds of thousands of people there's hundreds of thousands of people that die because they don't have access that die because they don't have access that die because they don't have access to these therapies. So it's limited in to these therapies. So it's limited in to these therapies. So it's limited in terms of its availability. There's terms of its availability. There's terms of its availability. There's technology like AI. Not everyone has technology like AI. Not everyone has technology like AI. Not everyone has access to it. Not everyone owns a piece access to it. Not everyone owns a piece access to it. Not everyone owns a piece of a model, etc. Not everyone's using of a model, etc. Not everyone's using of a model, etc. Not everyone's using it, and the people that are using it are it, and the people that are using it are it, and the people that are using it are getting ahead faster than the people getting ahead faster than the people getting ahead faster than the people behind. behind. behind. >> In your golden goose analogy, by the >> In your golden goose analogy, by the >> In your golden goose analogy, by the time that the golden geese get down to time that the golden geese get down to time that the golden geese get down to the sort of lower end of the the sort of lower end of the the sort of lower end of the socioeconomic ladder socioeconomic ladder socioeconomic ladder >> or def I would I would use the word >> or def I would I would use the word >> or def I would I would use the word diffuse. Yeah. diffuse. Yeah. diffuse. Yeah. >> Those those golden eggs or whatever, buy >> Those those golden eggs or whatever, buy >> Those those golden eggs or whatever, buy less less less >> because something happens along the way. >> because something happens along the way. >> because something happens along the way. >> That's right. So along the way, the >> That's right. So along the way, the >> That's right. So along the way, the government says, "Let's give everyone government says, "Let's give everyone government says, "Let's give everyone that. Let's give everyone access to more that. Let's give everyone access to more that. Let's give everyone access to more stuff to make up for that difference."

stuff to make up for that difference." stuff to make up for that difference." and then things get more expensive. and then things get more expensive. and then things get more expensive. >> Is this in part because when the nation >> Is this in part because when the nation >> Is this in part because when the nation becomes prosperous because the GDP is becomes prosperous because the GDP is becomes prosperous because the GDP is high uh when you have four-year election high uh when you have four-year election high uh when you have four-year election cycles, politicians get in by offering cycles, politicians get in by offering cycles, politicians get in by offering you lots of free stuff. And that is the you lots of free stuff. And that is the you lots of free stuff. And that is the nature of the four-year election cycle. nature of the four-year election cycle. nature of the four-year election cycle. >> I always said the the kid that got >> I always said the the kid that got >> I always said the the kid that got elected president in middle school was elected president in middle school was elected president in middle school was the kid who said he's going to make the the kid who said he's going to make the the kid who said he's going to make the vending machines free. That's always vending machines free. That's always vending machines free. That's always going to be true in any election. And at going to be true in any election. And at going to be true in any election. And at the end of the day, that's how the the end of the day, that's how the the end of the day, that's how the system grows. We don't talk about this system grows. We don't talk about this system grows. We don't talk about this fourear election thing enough as maybe fourear election thing enough as maybe fourear election thing enough as maybe as being a bit of a causal factor that's as being a bit of a causal factor that's as being a bit of a causal factor that's causing short termism amongst these causing short termism amongst these causing short termism amongst these leaders where they're all just spending leaders where they're all just spending leaders where they're all just spending more money to more money to more money to >> I cannot tell you how much it drives me >> I cannot tell you how much it drives me >> I cannot tell you how much it drives me nuts when I go to Washington DC and I go nuts when I go to Washington DC and I go nuts when I go to Washington DC and I go to Washington DC to Washington DC to Washington DC every couple weeks or whatever and I every couple weeks or whatever and I every couple weeks or whatever and I meet with Congress people senators and meet with Congress people senators and meet with Congress people senators and representatives literally all of them representatives literally all of them representatives literally all of them just talk about getting stuff for their just talk about getting stuff for their just talk about getting stuff for their constituents. Yeah, that's all that constituents. Yeah, that's all that constituents. Yeah, that's all that they're there to do. just get stuff for they're there to do. just get stuff for they're there to do. just get stuff for their people. That's their job and their people. That's their job and their people. That's their job and that's how they get elected. And the that's how they get elected. And the that's how they get elected. And the incentive is I'm going to get you incentive is I'm going to get you incentive is I'm going to get you something. Vote for me. Now, the something. Vote for me. Now, the something. Vote for me. Now, the founding fathers kind of had this idea founding fathers kind of had this idea founding fathers kind of had this idea that they would rotate into public that they would rotate into public that they would rotate into public service and rotate out and go back to service and rotate out and go back to service and rotate out and go back to private life. There's a lot of writings private life. There's a lot of writings private life. There's a lot of writings about this, you know, in the early days about this, you know, in the early days about this, you know, in the early days of the formation of this republic. And of the formation of this republic. And of the formation of this republic. And it was like, we should all go do our it was like, we should all go do our it was like, we should all go do our tour of duty. We should go in. There was tour of duty. We should go in. There was tour of duty. We should go in. There was never this belief that America would never this belief that America would never this belief that America would evolve to a world where you have career evolve to a world where you have career evolve to a world where you have career politicians. People that are just politicians. People that are just politicians. People that are just constantly trying to get elected and constantly trying to get elected and constantly trying to get elected and their job is to be a politician. It's their job is to be a politician. It's their job is to be a politician. It's just such a mind-numbingly crazy idea to just such a mind-numbingly crazy idea to just such a mind-numbingly crazy idea to think about. And all my politician think about. And all my politician think about. And all my politician friends are about to chop my head off

friends are about to chop my head off friends are about to chop my head off about this, but I think it's nuts. I about this, but I think it's nuts. I about this, but I think it's nuts. I don't think a person should be a don't think a person should be a don't think a person should be a politician. I don't think that job title politician. I don't think that job title politician. I don't think that job title should exist. And I'm sorry to all the should exist. And I'm sorry to all the should exist. And I'm sorry to all the politicians out there. I think the politicians out there. I think the politicians out there. I think the people that represent the people should people that represent the people should people that represent the people should have the best long-term interests of the have the best long-term interests of the have the best long-term interests of the people in mind because they should be people in mind because they should be people in mind because they should be constrained to serving for a limited constrained to serving for a limited constrained to serving for a limited period of time and then they go back to period of time and then they go back to period of time and then they go back to private life. That means that we should private life. That means that we should private life. That means that we should have term limits. So you should never be have term limits. So you should never be have term limits. So you should never be able to be elected more than two terms able to be elected more than two terms able to be elected more than two terms as a senator or you know four terms as a as a senator or you know four terms as a as a senator or you know four terms as a representative or whatever it is. And it representative or whatever it is. And it representative or whatever it is. And it should be the case that if you're in one should be the case that if you're in one should be the case that if you're in one public office, maybe you shouldn't go public office, maybe you shouldn't go public office, maybe you shouldn't go transition to other public offices under transition to other public offices under transition to other public offices under those same limits because at the end of those same limits because at the end of those same limits because at the end of the day, you have created a system the day, you have created a system the day, you have created a system whereby you've proven that you can get whereby you've proven that you can get whereby you've proven that you can get stuff for people and your job is to go stuff for people and your job is to go stuff for people and your job is to go get stuff for people and that causes the get stuff for people and that causes the get stuff for people and that causes the government to inflate, be mismanaged, government to inflate, be mismanaged, government to inflate, be mismanaged, you know, and then there's all the you know, and then there's all the you know, and then there's all the waste, fraud, and abuse stuff that waste, fraud, and abuse stuff that waste, fraud, and abuse stuff that happens along the way. happens along the way. happens along the way. >> Everything is a trade-off, right? Even >> Everything is a trade-off, right? Even >> Everything is a trade-off, right? Even in that example, if some people did 8 in that example, if some people did 8 in that example, if some people did 8 years in government and they know years in government and they know years in government and they know they're going back to private life, they they're going back to private life, they they're going back to private life, they could be dealing their friends. I'm could be dealing their friends. I'm could be dealing their friends. I'm going to do eight years in government.

going to do eight years in government. going to do eight years in government. I'm going to run the transportation I'm going to run the transportation I'm going to run the transportation division. I'm going to serve some nice division. I'm going to serve some nice division. I'm going to serve some nice benefits to my friend who runs Boeing benefits to my friend who runs Boeing benefits to my friend who runs Boeing and then when I step back in, I'm going and then when I step back in, I'm going and then when I step back in, I'm going to step in as the chair. to step in as the chair. to step in as the chair. >> That's a law to make sure that doesn't >> That's a law to make sure that doesn't >> That's a law to make sure that doesn't happen. And he goes to jail if that happen. And he goes to jail if that happen. And he goes to jail if that happens. That's a pretty easy fix. You happens. That's a pretty easy fix. You happens. That's a pretty easy fix. You can't buy stocks. You can't own stuff. can't buy stocks. You can't own stuff. can't buy stocks. You can't own stuff. You can't trade. I mean, there just so You can't trade. I mean, there just so You can't trade. I mean, there just so many obvious things. If you're going to many obvious things. If you're going to many obvious things. If you're going to go serve in government, you can't do go serve in government, you can't do go serve in government, you can't do stuff that you can do as a private stuff that you can do as a private stuff that you can do as a private citizen and you shouldn't be able to citizen and you shouldn't be able to citizen and you shouldn't be able to enrich yourself as a private citizen. If enrich yourself as a private citizen. If enrich yourself as a private citizen. If you do, you should go to jail. But we you do, you should go to jail. But we you do, you should go to jail. But we should also make sure that the incentive should also make sure that the incentive should also make sure that the incentive structure is set up right so that good structure is set up right so that good structure is set up right so that good people come and work in government and people come and work in government and people come and work in government and that we have good rotation between that we have good rotation between that we have good rotation between public and private life. public and private life. public and private life. >> It's a hard problem though, this problem >> It's a hard problem though, this problem >> It's a hard problem though, this problem of how you fix this incentive structure of how you fix this incentive structure of how you fix this incentive structure so that you don't just get I mean this so that you don't just get I mean this so that you don't just get I mean this stuff inevitably happens cuz we we hand stuff inevitably happens cuz we we hand stuff inevitably happens cuz we we hand out lots of free things and we don't out lots of free things and we don't out lots of free things and we don't think about the long-term consequences. think about the long-term consequences. think about the long-term consequences. Has anyone fixed it globally? Is there Has anyone fixed it globally? Is there Has anyone fixed it globally? Is there any nation you look at as a model for a any nation you look at as a model for a any nation you look at as a model for a better better better >> you know a lot of people will point to >> you know a lot of people will point to >> you know a lot of people will point to Denmark they'll point to places like Denmark they'll point to places like Denmark they'll point to places like that and say hey these guys do a great that and say hey these guys do a great that and say hey these guys do a great job and you know there's a lot of public job and you know there's a lot of public job and you know there's a lot of public services and people pay high taxes but services and people pay high taxes but services and people pay high taxes but you know there's not a lot of great you know there's not a lot of great you know there's not a lot of great progress there's no entrepreneurial progress there's no entrepreneurial progress there's no entrepreneurial success coming out of those places what success coming out of those places what success coming out of those places what happens in America the freedoms that happens in America the freedoms that happens in America the freedoms that were afforded the individual agency and were afforded the individual agency and were afforded the individual agency and liberty and rights to private property liberty and rights to private property liberty and rights to private property creates an incentive structure that says creates an incentive structure that says creates an incentive structure that says go try and do crazy stuff that could go try and do crazy stuff that could go try and do crazy stuff that could work And if it works, there's tremendous work And if it works, there's tremendous work And if it works, there's tremendous return. So it's worth taking the risk.

return. So it's worth taking the risk. return. So it's worth taking the risk. And that level of risk is what pushes And that level of risk is what pushes And that level of risk is what pushes the boundaries. It's what discovered the boundaries. It's what discovered the boundaries. It's what discovered CARTT therapy, what discovered gene CARTT therapy, what discovered gene CARTT therapy, what discovered gene editing that can lead to curing human editing that can lead to curing human editing that can lead to curing human diseases. It's what's discovered new diseases. It's what's discovered new diseases. It's what's discovered new advances in agriculture, new physics, advances in agriculture, new physics, advances in agriculture, new physics, new engineering, AI. All of these things new engineering, AI. All of these things new engineering, AI. All of these things came from this risk-taking system that came from this risk-taking system that came from this risk-taking system that we've set up in the United States that's we've set up in the United States that's we've set up in the United States that's built around these individual built around these individual built around these individual incentives. And it works. So you can incentives. And it works. So you can incentives. And it works. So you can have great comfort for a great many have great comfort for a great many have great comfort for a great many people in Denmark and people will be people in Denmark and people will be people in Denmark and people will be very happy living there and they will very happy living there and they will very happy living there and they will have a good life, but you will not have have a good life, but you will not have have a good life, but you will not have progress like you have in the United progress like you have in the United progress like you have in the United States. And we push the frontier because States. And we push the frontier because States. And we push the frontier because we create this incentive structure and we create this incentive structure and we create this incentive structure and that's where progress comes from. that's where progress comes from. that's where progress comes from. >> Would you say the vast majority would >> Would you say the vast majority would >> Would you say the vast majority would choose to live in a place like Denmark choose to live in a place like Denmark choose to live in a place like Denmark if it, you know, I'm looking at some of if it, you know, I'm looking at some of if it, you know, I'm looking at some of the stats here. They have higher the stats here. They have higher the stats here. They have higher societal trust in government, police societal trust in government, police societal trust in government, police institutions, and strangers. They have institutions, and strangers. They have institutions, and strangers. They have standard 37hour standard 37hour standard 37hour work weeks, 5 to six weeks of paid work weeks, 5 to six weeks of paid work weeks, 5 to six weeks of paid vacation and cultural emphasis on vacation and cultural emphasis on vacation and cultural emphasis on balance. They have lower ceiling of balance. They have lower ceiling of balance. They have lower ceiling of extreme wealth but a higher floor so extreme wealth but a higher floor so extreme wealth but a higher floor so less poverty and financial ruin. And less poverty and financial ruin. And less poverty and financial ruin. And according to global happiness metrics, according to global happiness metrics, according to global happiness metrics, Denmark consistently ranks significantly Denmark consistently ranks significantly Denmark consistently ranks significantly higher than the United States. Most higher than the United States. Most higher than the United States. Most people would choose that, right?

people would choose that, right? people would choose that, right? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> So central planning, it might stop a >> So central planning, it might stop a >> So central planning, it might stop a few, you know, very high agency few, you know, very high agency few, you know, very high agency ambitious people, but the vast majority ambitious people, but the vast majority ambitious people, but the vast majority would theoretically be happier with a would theoretically be happier with a would theoretically be happier with a Denmark model. the vast majority maybe. Denmark model. the vast majority maybe. Denmark model. the vast majority maybe. >> And do you think the vast majority of >> And do you think the vast majority of >> And do you think the vast majority of this country actually would if there was this country actually would if there was this country actually would if there was two buttons and they had to press they'd two buttons and they had to press they'd two buttons and they had to press they'd press Denmark. press Denmark. press Denmark. >> One of the things that I think makes >> One of the things that I think makes >> One of the things that I think makes American culture different from Denmark American culture different from Denmark American culture different from Denmark is this idea of individual progress. is this idea of individual progress. is this idea of individual progress. So I think if you ask the majority of So I think if you ask the majority of So I think if you ask the majority of people, you can have that, but you don't people, you can have that, but you don't people, you can have that, but you don't get to progress. Meaning you don't get get to progress. Meaning you don't get get to progress. Meaning you don't get to earn more next year and you don't get to earn more next year and you don't get to earn more next year and you don't get to earn more next year. You don't have a to earn more next year. You don't have a to earn more next year. You don't have a shot at becoming a millionaire. You shot at becoming a millionaire. You shot at becoming a millionaire. You don't have a shot at building something don't have a shot at building something don't have a shot at building something great. You don't have a shot at buying a great. You don't have a shot at buying a great. You don't have a shot at buying a second home. You're limited. But you get second home. You're limited. But you get second home. You're limited. But you get that over here. You don't get anything that over here. You don't get anything that over here. You don't get anything guaranteed to you or you get some stuff guaranteed to you or you get some stuff guaranteed to you or you get some stuff guaranteed to you, but you don't get guaranteed to you, but you don't get guaranteed to you, but you don't get much more guaranteed to you. But you much more guaranteed to you. But you much more guaranteed to you. But you could have the world. could have the world. could have the world. You could make a million dollars. You You could make a million dollars. You You could make a million dollars. You could own a second home. You could buy a could own a second home. You could buy a could own a second home. You could buy a second car. You could pay off your kid's second car. You could pay off your kid's second car. You could pay off your kid's college tuition debt if you earn well.

college tuition debt if you earn well. college tuition debt if you earn well. There's more options here. There's more There's more options here. There's more There's more options here. There's more guaranteed here. guaranteed here. guaranteed here. >> You think the 63% would pick? I think >> You think the 63% would pick? I think >> You think the 63% would pick? I think even within the 63% there would be some even within the 63% there would be some even within the 63% there would be some percent that would say this. But I do percent that would say this. But I do percent that would say this. But I do think this is why we're headed the way think this is why we're headed the way think this is why we're headed the way we're headed in the United States. we're headed in the United States. we're headed in the United States. People want more of a guarantee. The People want more of a guarantee. The People want more of a guarantee. The question is, do you want to maximize the question is, do you want to maximize the question is, do you want to maximize the number of people that are happy or do number of people that are happy or do number of people that are happy or do you want to maximize the number of you want to maximize the number of you want to maximize the number of people that are truly free? And by being people that are truly free? And by being people that are truly free? And by being truly free increases the rate of truly free increases the rate of truly free increases the rate of progress across the whole population. progress across the whole population. progress across the whole population. And that rate of progress may be And that rate of progress may be And that rate of progress may be asymmetric. It may be diffuse. Starts asymmetric. It may be diffuse. Starts asymmetric. It may be diffuse. Starts with some makes its way to others over with some makes its way to others over with some makes its way to others over time. time. time. I think that that's what America's I think that that's what America's I think that that's what America's chosen to be for the last 250 years. I'm chosen to be for the last 250 years. I'm chosen to be for the last 250 years. I'm not sure we're choosing to be that for not sure we're choosing to be that for not sure we're choosing to be that for the next 250 based on what's going on the next 250 based on what's going on the next 250 based on what's going on across the country right now. across the country right now. across the country right now. >> Maybe because people aren't happy and >> Maybe because people aren't happy and >> Maybe because people aren't happy and actually maybe that was always the more actually maybe that was always the more actually maybe that was always the more important thing versus progress. important thing versus progress. important thing versus progress. >> Important in an aggregate way. Again, >> Important in an aggregate way. Again, >> Important in an aggregate way. Again, I'll come back to the individual. I'll come back to the individual. I'll come back to the individual. We choose to live in a society because We choose to live in a society because We choose to live in a society because it gives us that foundation that you it gives us that foundation that you it gives us that foundation that you described, that ability to have the described, that ability to have the described, that ability to have the safety, the security to take risk, to safety, the security to take risk, to safety, the security to take risk, to make our own decisions, and potentially make our own decisions, and potentially make our own decisions, and potentially build a media empire as you have done.

build a media empire as you have done. build a media empire as you have done. And maybe you would have been happy in And maybe you would have been happy in And maybe you would have been happy in the other context where you didn't have the other context where you didn't have the other context where you didn't have that, but would you have reached your that, but would you have reached your that, but would you have reached your potential as a human? potential as a human? potential as a human? >> I'll be honest, I'm not sure I would >> I'll be honest, I'm not sure I would >> I'll be honest, I'm not sure I would have been happy because again, that goes have been happy because again, that goes have been happy because again, that goes back to my own nature. It's just the way back to my own nature. It's just the way back to my own nature. It's just the way that I am. If you put me in a room, I'll that I am. If you put me in a room, I'll that I am. If you put me in a room, I'll try and create something and build try and create something and build try and create something and build something. But I I've come to learn with something. But I I've come to learn with something. But I I've come to learn with time that not everybody has that bias or time that not everybody has that bias or time that not everybody has that bias or those desires. Not everybody has that those desires. Not everybody has that those desires. Not everybody has that loerty trauma from their childhood of loerty trauma from their childhood of loerty trauma from their childhood of being the only black kid in all white being the only black kid in all white being the only black kid in all white area and thinking money was really area and thinking money was really area and thinking money was really important and it was freedom and it was important and it was freedom and it was important and it was freedom and it was selfish. Like not everybody has has selfish. Like not everybody has has selfish. Like not everybody has has that. So I I realized that when I design that. So I I realized that when I design that. So I I realized that when I design solutions, they shouldn't probably be solutions, they shouldn't probably be solutions, they shouldn't probably be designed for me. Yeah. You know, it's designed for me. Yeah. You know, it's designed for me. Yeah. You know, it's taken me a long time to get to that taken me a long time to get to that taken me a long time to get to that place cuz I kind of I was very much place cuz I kind of I was very much place cuz I kind of I was very much >> the challenge with America in this >> the challenge with America in this >> the challenge with America in this moment is can you give what you're moment is can you give what you're moment is can you give what you're describing the Denmark answer to enough describing the Denmark answer to enough describing the Denmark answer to enough Americans without taking away the Americans without taking away the Americans without taking away the liberty that the Americans that want to liberty that the Americans that want to liberty that the Americans that want to have that liberty have today. And I'm have that liberty have today. And I'm have that liberty have today. And I'm not sure the answer is yes. As soon as not sure the answer is yes. As soon as not sure the answer is yes. As soon as you start taking private property from you start taking private property from you start taking private property from these people, the ones that are these people, the ones that are these people, the ones that are successful in this bucket, successful in this bucket, successful in this bucket, >> then you're sort of taking away the >> then you're sort of taking away the >> then you're sort of taking away the incentive for them to be in this bucket incentive for them to be in this bucket incentive for them to be in this bucket in America. in America. in America. >> And I'm seeing that.

>> And I'm seeing that. >> And I'm seeing that. >> Yeah. I see people want to leave and so >> Yeah. I see people want to leave and so >> Yeah. I see people want to leave and so you're not going to solve for everyone, you're not going to solve for everyone, you're not going to solve for everyone, but if you solve for this Denmark but if you solve for this Denmark but if you solve for this Denmark solution, I think you lose a lot of solution, I think you lose a lot of solution, I think you lose a lot of this. this. this. >> Well, the UK is quite an interesting >> Well, the UK is quite an interesting >> Well, the UK is quite an interesting example here for this very reason. I example here for this very reason. I example here for this very reason. I mean, one of the big subjects of mean, one of the big subjects of mean, one of the big subjects of conversation in the UK is that the the conversation in the UK is that the the conversation in the UK is that the the millionaires are all leaving or at least millionaires are all leaving or at least millionaires are all leaving or at least in high volume and they're coming to in high volume and they're coming to in high volume and they're coming to other places. If you look at the other places. If you look at the other places. If you look at the millionaire access maps that they millionaire access maps that they millionaire access maps that they publish often, they're going to Dubai or publish often, they're going to Dubai or publish often, they're going to Dubai or they're coming to America. A lot of my they're coming to America. A lot of my they're coming to America. A lot of my friends that are building technical friends that are building technical friends that are building technical companies in particular have come over companies in particular have come over companies in particular have come over to America. to America. to America. >> Yeah. for this reason. >> Yeah. for this reason. >> Yeah. for this reason. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I do think we might have a little >> And I do think we might have a little >> And I do think we might have a little bit of a we have a bit of a spending bit of a we have a bit of a spending bit of a we have a bit of a spending problem, it seems, but also I think we problem, it seems, but also I think we problem, it seems, but also I think we might have a bit of a productivity might have a bit of a productivity might have a bit of a productivity problem problem problem >> in the UK. >> in the UK. >> in the UK. >> In the UK. >> In the UK. >> In the UK. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, do you think the productivity >> Well, do you think the productivity >> Well, do you think the productivity problem is related to the spending problem is related to the spending problem is related to the spending problem? problem? problem? >> Oh, yes, of course. >> Oh, yes, of course. >> Oh, yes, of course. >> Right. If you're collecting checks or >> Right. If you're collecting checks or >> Right. If you're collecting checks or getting services provided to you, the getting services provided to you, the getting services provided to you, the incentive to be more productive as an incentive to be more productive as an incentive to be more productive as an individual goes away. But also as a individual goes away. But also as a individual goes away. But also as a system, it becomes a lot harder to system, it becomes a lot harder to system, it becomes a lot harder to create economic incentives for create economic incentives for create economic incentives for productivity gains when tax rates are productivity gains when tax rates are productivity gains when tax rates are very high and you don't actually get to very high and you don't actually get to very high and you don't actually get to reap the benefits of the risk you take reap the benefits of the risk you take reap the benefits of the risk you take and and so on. That's the economic and and so on. That's the economic and and so on. That's the economic argument.

argument. argument. >> Listen, I've been catfished by furniture >> Listen, I've been catfished by furniture >> Listen, I've been catfished by furniture my whole life where something has looked my whole life where something has looked my whole life where something has looked fantastic in the picture, whether it's a fantastic in the picture, whether it's a fantastic in the picture, whether it's a sofa or whatever it might be, and I sofa or whatever it might be, and I sofa or whatever it might be, and I order it and I get so excited and then order it and I get so excited and then order it and I get so excited and then it comes and it's something entirely it comes and it's something entirely it comes and it's something entirely different. the quality was significantly different. the quality was significantly different. the quality was significantly different to what it said or looked like different to what it said or looked like different to what it said or looked like online or the the texture was different online or the the texture was different online or the the texture was different or or it it didn't hold up in the same or or it it didn't hold up in the same or or it it didn't hold up in the same way. And so one of the things that I way. And so one of the things that I way. And so one of the things that I love about our sponsor Wayfair who have love about our sponsor Wayfair who have love about our sponsor Wayfair who have helped us fit out our green room which helped us fit out our green room which helped us fit out our green room which is in the room behind me is they have is in the room behind me is they have is in the room behind me is they have this system called Wayfair Verified. this system called Wayfair Verified. this system called Wayfair Verified. Wayfair Verified takes away all of that Wayfair Verified takes away all of that Wayfair Verified takes away all of that second guessing. Products are handetted second guessing. Products are handetted second guessing. Products are handetted by Wayfair specialists for quality so by Wayfair specialists for quality so by Wayfair specialists for quality so you can feel more confident when you you can feel more confident when you you can feel more confident when you found the thing that you love. So, if found the thing that you love. So, if found the thing that you love. So, if you're looking for furniture for your you're looking for furniture for your you're looking for furniture for your house, whatever it might be, any room of house, whatever it might be, any room of house, whatever it might be, any room of your house, go to wayfair.com to start your house, go to wayfair.com to start your house, go to wayfair.com to start your home refresh today, and make sure your home refresh today, and make sure your home refresh today, and make sure you use Wayfair Verified. It is amazing. you use Wayfair Verified. It is amazing. you use Wayfair Verified. It is amazing. Hello, I wasn't able to make that Hello, I wasn't able to make that Hello, I wasn't able to make that finance meeting. Can you tell me what I finance meeting. Can you tell me what I finance meeting. Can you tell me what I missed? What I have in front of me is missed? What I have in front of me is missed? What I have in front of me is Whisper Flow's new notetaker. And for Whisper Flow's new notetaker. And for Whisper Flow's new notetaker. And for me, it's been an absolute game changer.

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I mean, this kind of does tie into the subject of of does tie into the subject of of does tie into the subject of artificial intelligence and where it all artificial intelligence and where it all artificial intelligence and where it all fits in part because the narrative of fits in part because the narrative of fits in part because the narrative of artificial intelligence is that it's artificial intelligence is that it's artificial intelligence is that it's about to take our jobs. And you think about to take our jobs. And you think about to take our jobs. And you think about the that's why I wanted to start about the that's why I wanted to start about the that's why I wanted to start with the backdrop. Think about that with the backdrop. Think about that with the backdrop. Think about that backdrop of I'm already struggling. I'm backdrop of I'm already struggling. I'm backdrop of I'm already struggling. I'm I'm in the 63% and now you're telling me I'm in the 63% and now you're telling me I'm in the 63% and now you're telling me I'm going to lose this job I'm going to lose this job I'm going to lose this job that's paying me and I'm already living that's paying me and I'm already living that's paying me and I'm already living hand-to-mouth. And what's the offer? We hand-to-mouth. And what's the offer? We hand-to-mouth. And what's the offer? We might get UBI. We might be sent checks might get UBI. We might be sent checks might get UBI. We might be sent checks in the post at some point. Well, in the post at some point. Well, in the post at some point. Well, actually, I like my job. It's a actually, I like my job. It's a actually, I like my job. It's a community, a sense of purpose. It gives community, a sense of purpose. It gives community, a sense of purpose. It gives me something to do. And that's the me something to do. And that's the me something to do. And that's the narrative.

narrative. narrative. >> Yes, that is the narrative. >> Yes, that is the narrative. >> Yes, that is the narrative. >> You don't believe the narrative. >> You don't believe the narrative. >> You don't believe the narrative. >> I believe what everyone's feeling. But >> I believe what everyone's feeling. But >> I believe what everyone's feeling. But this narrative that AI will take jobs this narrative that AI will take jobs this narrative that AI will take jobs away, you don't believe it. away, you don't believe it. away, you don't believe it. >> I recently pulled up and you you guys >> I recently pulled up and you you guys >> I recently pulled up and you you guys can go to archive.org. can go to archive.org. can go to archive.org. There's a Newsweek article about There's a Newsweek article about There's a Newsweek article about computers will take all the jobs from computers will take all the jobs from computers will take all the jobs from 1963. So the main frames are what got 1963. So the main frames are what got 1963. So the main frames are what got put in the basement in the '60s and put in the basement in the '60s and put in the basement in the '60s and everyone like had to walk past the scary everyone like had to walk past the scary everyone like had to walk past the scary mainframe on the right. It's like mainframe on the right. It's like mainframe on the right. It's like blinking lights and buzzing and making blinking lights and buzzing and making blinking lights and buzzing and making sounds. And it's like the main frame is sounds. And it's like the main frame is sounds. And it's like the main frame is going to destroy all the accountant going to destroy all the accountant going to destroy all the accountant jobs, all the typing jobs, all these jobs, all the typing jobs, all these jobs, all the typing jobs, all these things that we all do that we get paid things that we all do that we get paid things that we all do that we get paid to do. And I like working in my office. to do. And I like working in my office. to do. And I like working in my office. I like my colleagues. I like coming in I like my colleagues. I like coming in I like my colleagues. I like coming in every day having lunch. That's a good every day having lunch. That's a good every day having lunch. That's a good life. This mainframe is going to ruin my life. This mainframe is going to ruin my life. This mainframe is going to ruin my life. And so there was this effort to life. And so there was this effort to life. And so there was this effort to legislate against these things at the legislate against these things at the legislate against these things at the time that didn't get through in time that didn't get through in time that didn't get through in Congress. And then in the 80s there was Congress. And then in the 80s there was Congress. And then in the 80s there was another wave on computing where it was another wave on computing where it was another wave on computing where it was like, hey, now we're all getting desktop like, hey, now we're all getting desktop like, hey, now we're all getting desktop computers. it's going to replace the computers. it's going to replace the computers. it's going to replace the workers and it's going to be a desktop workers and it's going to be a desktop workers and it's going to be a desktop computer and a worker and like 50 people computer and a worker and like 50 people computer and a worker and like 50 people disappear out of the the workforce. So disappear out of the the workforce. So disappear out of the the workforce. So empirically, meaning from data, from empirically, meaning from data, from empirically, meaning from data, from evidence over all periods of evidence over all periods of evidence over all periods of technological revolution like this, technological revolution like this, technological revolution like this, we've never seen jobs decline. We've we've never seen jobs decline. We've we've never seen jobs decline. We've always seen jobs go up and we've seen always seen jobs go up and we've seen always seen jobs go up and we've seen demand go up and therefore incomes rise demand go up and therefore incomes rise demand go up and therefore incomes rise when new technology enters the when new technology enters the when new technology enters the workforce. That's because the new workforce. That's because the new workforce. That's because the new technology makes an individual more technology makes an individual more technology makes an individual more productive so they can do more per hour productive so they can do more per hour productive so they can do more per hour with their time and as a result they can with their time and as a result they can with their time and as a result they can get paid more for doing that work. So get paid more for doing that work. So get paid more for doing that work. So imagine instead of having a painter imagine instead of having a painter imagine instead of having a painter painting a wall, what if he was in painting a wall, what if he was in painting a wall, what if he was in charge of the five robots that are charge of the five robots that are charge of the five robots that are painting the wall? Okay, great. Now he's painting the wall? Okay, great. Now he's painting the wall? Okay, great. Now he's going to get paid more because you can,

going to get paid more because you can, going to get paid more because you can, you know, get so many more homes painted you know, get so many more homes painted you know, get so many more homes painted in a day. He's going to get paid more to in a day. He's going to get paid more to in a day. He's going to get paid more to do that work. People are going to be do that work. People are going to be do that work. People are going to be like, well, there's only so many homes. like, well, there's only so many homes. like, well, there's only so many homes. That's always the argument is you always That's always the argument is you always That's always the argument is you always think about the fixed pie argument that think about the fixed pie argument that think about the fixed pie argument that the pie doesn't grow. But what always the pie doesn't grow. But what always the pie doesn't grow. But what always happens is that the pi grows, the happens is that the pi grows, the happens is that the pi grows, the economy grows is the way to think about economy grows is the way to think about economy grows is the way to think about it. And so as automation or technology it. And so as automation or technology it. And so as automation or technology is used to give individuals more is used to give individuals more is used to give individuals more leverage to do more things with their leverage to do more things with their leverage to do more things with their time, then more things get done. People time, then more things get done. People time, then more things get done. People come up with these new product ideas come up with these new product ideas come up with these new product ideas with hey, we've got excess capital. with hey, we've got excess capital. with hey, we've got excess capital. Let's build new homes. Let's build a Let's build new homes. Let's build a Let's build new homes. Let's build a building. building. building. >> But who gets who benefits from the >> But who gets who benefits from the >> But who gets who benefits from the expansion of that pie? expansion of that pie? expansion of that pie? >> In all cases, it's been there's been >> In all cases, it's been there's been >> In all cases, it's been there's been deep economic value created for the deep economic value created for the deep economic value created for the entire workforce all the way down to the entire workforce all the way down to the entire workforce all the way down to the lowest level. It doesn't happen lowest level. It doesn't happen lowest level. It doesn't happen overnight. And that's where during that overnight. And that's where during that overnight. And that's where during that period of time when you see the new period of time when you see the new period of time when you see the new technology, oh the main frame's in the technology, oh the main frame's in the technology, oh the main frame's in the basement or the desktop computers on my basement or the desktop computers on my basement or the desktop computers on my uh my colleagueu's desk and you're like, uh my colleagueu's desk and you're like, uh my colleagueu's desk and you're like, "Oh my god, I'm going to lose my job." "Oh my god, I'm going to lose my job." "Oh my god, I'm going to lose my job." To the time that your company is growing To the time that your company is growing To the time that your company is growing considerably their revenue and giving considerably their revenue and giving considerably their revenue and giving everyone raises and everyone bonuses and everyone raises and everyone bonuses and everyone raises and everyone bonuses and adding more product lines and doing more adding more product lines and doing more adding more product lines and doing more stuff, you're like, "Oh man, okay, I stuff, you're like, "Oh man, okay, I stuff, you're like, "Oh man, okay, I feel better." And and I think that would feel better." And and I think that would feel better." And and I think that would be the argument from the 60s and 80s and be the argument from the 60s and 80s and be the argument from the 60s and 80s and even back in the industrial revolution.

even back in the industrial revolution. even back in the industrial revolution. The question today is how does work The question today is how does work The question today is how does work change? Cuz remember in the industrial change? Cuz remember in the industrial change? Cuz remember in the industrial revolution, people moved from farms, 60% revolution, people moved from farms, 60% revolution, people moved from farms, 60% of labor was in farming. Today it's like of labor was in farming. Today it's like of labor was in farming. Today it's like 2%. Into factories and they got paid a 2%. Into factories and they got paid a 2%. Into factories and they got paid a lot more and they lived a better life. lot more and they lived a better life. lot more and they lived a better life. They actually were able to afford They actually were able to afford They actually were able to afford healthcare, yada yada yada. And the the healthcare, yada yada yada. And the the healthcare, yada yada yada. And the the the transition in any sort of like the transition in any sort of like the transition in any sort of like technological revolution is net technological revolution is net technological revolution is net beneficial for all parties involved. But beneficial for all parties involved. But beneficial for all parties involved. But there is a transition. So what's it there is a transition. So what's it there is a transition. So what's it going to look like? Are we all going to going to look like? Are we all going to going to look like? Are we all going to lose our jobs? AI is definitely lose our jobs? AI is definitely lose our jobs? AI is definitely different, but I don't think that AI is different, but I don't think that AI is different, but I don't think that AI is this world where humans are going to this world where humans are going to this world where humans are going to look around and be like, none of us have look around and be like, none of us have look around and be like, none of us have anything to do anymore. [laughter] Like, anything to do anymore. [laughter] Like, anything to do anymore. [laughter] Like, I don't believe in that narrative. And I don't believe in that narrative. And I don't believe in that narrative. And the reason is I already see the reason is I already see the reason is I already see extraordinary creative things being done extraordinary creative things being done extraordinary creative things being done with AI that were not possible years with AI that were not possible years with AI that were not possible years ago. People are creating TV shows, one ago. People are creating TV shows, one ago. People are creating TV shows, one person, that they would have needed a person, that they would have needed a person, that they would have needed a staff of 20 people to do. and they can staff of 20 people to do. and they can staff of 20 people to do. and they can use AI to create AI generated content use AI to create AI generated content use AI to create AI generated content and put these shows out on on YouTube or and put these shows out on on YouTube or and put these shows out on on YouTube or Tik Tok or Instagram. I mean, look, you Tik Tok or Instagram. I mean, look, you Tik Tok or Instagram. I mean, look, you may not like how it looks today. There may not like how it looks today. There may not like how it looks today. There may be a lot of AI slop out there, but may be a lot of AI slop out there, but may be a lot of AI slop out there, but as this stuff gets better and better, as this stuff gets better and better, as this stuff gets better and better, the creative output of people using AI the creative output of people using AI the creative output of people using AI on creative channels where we're all on creative channels where we're all on creative channels where we're all consuming media is only going to go up consuming media is only going to go up consuming media is only going to go up and people are going to make money that and people are going to make money that and people are going to make money that they weren't able to make before from they weren't able to make before from they weren't able to make before from that output as other people consume it.

that output as other people consume it. that output as other people consume it. My ability to do work, I don't have to, My ability to do work, I don't have to, My ability to do work, I don't have to, you know, think about my, you know, four you know, think about my, you know, four you know, think about my, you know, four hours a day that I'm writing documents hours a day that I'm writing documents hours a day that I'm writing documents today. I can get all that work done in today. I can get all that work done in today. I can get all that work done in 10 minutes or 15 minutes and then I can 10 minutes or 15 minutes and then I can 10 minutes or 15 minutes and then I can spend the other three and a half hours spend the other three and a half hours spend the other three and a half hours doing other things that create new value doing other things that create new value doing other things that create new value for my company. for my company. for my company. >> If we go back to the top of this um the >> If we go back to the top of this um the >> If we go back to the top of this um the robot painter analogy. robot painter analogy. robot painter analogy. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You said a guy might have had five >> You said a guy might have had five >> You said a guy might have had five people painting, now they can have five people painting, now they can have five people painting, now they can have five robots painting. robots painting. robots painting. >> No, I was saying the guy instead of >> No, I was saying the guy instead of >> No, I was saying the guy instead of painting on his own, he can now have painting on his own, he can now have painting on his own, he can now have five robots painting. five robots painting. five robots painting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then he can now produce five times >> And then he can now produce five times >> And then he can now produce five times as much with his time. Think about what as much with his time. Think about what as much with his time. Think about what we saw with the desktop computer we saw with the desktop computer we saw with the desktop computer revolution, right? Adobe Photoshop came revolution, right? Adobe Photoshop came revolution, right? Adobe Photoshop came around and everyone was like, "Oh my around and everyone was like, "Oh my around and everyone was like, "Oh my god, like photographers are out of work god, like photographers are out of work god, like photographers are out of work because a big part of being a because a big part of being a because a big part of being a photographer was all the post editing photographer was all the post editing photographer was all the post editing and cleaning up of your and airbrushing and cleaning up of your and airbrushing and cleaning up of your and airbrushing and all this sort of stuff." And they're and all this sort of stuff." And they're and all this sort of stuff." And they're like, "That whole industry is destroyed like, "That whole industry is destroyed like, "That whole industry is destroyed with Photoshop." What ended up happening with Photoshop." What ended up happening with Photoshop." What ended up happening is a ton more media was created and is a ton more media was created and is a ton more media was created and print media was created because print media was created because print media was created because Photoshop created leverage to create Photoshop created leverage to create Photoshop created leverage to create many more beautiful images and then all many more beautiful images and then all many more beautiful images and then all these magazines took off and it like if these magazines took off and it like if these magazines took off and it like if you look at magazine circulation, they you look at magazine circulation, they you look at magazine circulation, they grew considerably as Photoshop came out grew considerably as Photoshop came out grew considerably as Photoshop came out because it allowed much more production because it allowed much more production because it allowed much more production on you know highv value photography. I on you know highv value photography. I on you know highv value photography. I think the reason why it feels different think the reason why it feels different think the reason why it feels different is because that's I mean the industrial is because that's I mean the industrial is because that's I mean the industrial revolution example is kind of like revolution example is kind of like revolution example is kind of like physical work moving to cognitive work physical work moving to cognitive work physical work moving to cognitive work that was cognitive work creating a new that was cognitive work creating a new that was cognitive work creating a new type of cognitive work the the Adobe type of cognitive work the the Adobe type of cognitive work the the Adobe analogy if AI takes the cognitive work analogy if AI takes the cognitive work analogy if AI takes the cognitive work and from what you said about robotics and from what you said about robotics and from what you said about robotics robotics takes a lot of the physical robotics takes a lot of the physical robotics takes a lot of the physical work what is this third type of work I work what is this third type of work I work what is this third type of work I think it's cognitive and physical it's think it's cognitive and physical it's think it's cognitive and physical it's it's it's no different than what we've it's it's no different than what we've it's it's no different than what we've seen in the past but it doesn't mean seen in the past but it doesn't mean seen in the past but it doesn't mean that there isn't an individual who's that there isn't an individual who's that there isn't an individual who's going to program the robot on what rooms going to program the robot on what rooms going to program the robot on what rooms to paint how to paint them how to do the

to paint how to paint them how to do the to paint how to paint them how to do the detailing correct. The homeowner doesn't detailing correct. The homeowner doesn't detailing correct. The homeowner doesn't have the level of skill that the painter have the level of skill that the painter have the level of skill that the painter does, right? So the painter does, right? So the painter does, right? So the painter >> and I couldn't do that. >> and I couldn't do that. >> and I couldn't do that. >> Maybe at some point, I mean, you could >> Maybe at some point, I mean, you could >> Maybe at some point, I mean, you could make this argument on a continuum where make this argument on a continuum where make this argument on a continuum where eventually everything nothing exists, eventually everything nothing exists, eventually everything nothing exists, but along the way there are new things but along the way there are new things but along the way there are new things that are emerging. Think about going that are emerging. Think about going that are emerging. Think about going back 50 years. There was no yoga back 50 years. There was no yoga back 50 years. There was no yoga instructor. There was no dog walker. instructor. There was no dog walker. instructor. There was no dog walker. There was no Instagram influencer. There There was no Instagram influencer. There There was no Instagram influencer. There was no podcaster. I mean there's a was no podcaster. I mean there's a was no podcaster. I mean there's a million versions of new work that million versions of new work that million versions of new work that emerged along the way as the internet emerged along the way as the internet emerged along the way as the internet took hold and people could start to took hold and people could start to took hold and people could start to spend their time or market themselves or spend their time or market themselves or spend their time or market themselves or market their capabilities in other ways. market their capabilities in other ways. market their capabilities in other ways. So I think it's a pessimistic view to So I think it's a pessimistic view to So I think it's a pessimistic view to assume that robots replace all humans assume that robots replace all humans assume that robots replace all humans and then humans have no logic, no and then humans have no logic, no and then humans have no logic, no agency, no capacity for creative work agency, no capacity for creative work agency, no capacity for creative work anymore. I have an optimistic view on anymore. I have an optimistic view on anymore. I have an optimistic view on this which is that AI and robotics this which is that AI and robotics this which is that AI and robotics enables individuals to do far more enables individuals to do far more enables individuals to do far more things than they ever could have things than they ever could have things than they ever could have contemplated and that's going to give contemplated and that's going to give contemplated and that's going to give everyone much more ability to realize everyone much more ability to realize everyone much more ability to realize their potential with their agency. I their potential with their agency. I their potential with their agency. I mean, even the podcast, I think a game mean, even the podcast, I think a game mean, even the podcast, I think a game is going to be significantly disrupted is going to be significantly disrupted is going to be significantly disrupted in some some part. We we ran a test a in some some part. We we ran a test a in some some part. We we ran a test a couple years ago to figure out if a couple years ago to figure out if a couple years ago to figure out if a synthesized voice of me could have the synthesized voice of me could have the synthesized voice of me could have the same average view duration um as me and same average view duration um as me and same average view duration um as me and uh it was just me reading out the uh it was just me reading out the uh it was just me reading out the stories of founders through history. So, stories of founders through history. So, stories of founders through history. So, I'd do I did like a Steve Jobs episode I'd do I did like a Steve Jobs episode I'd do I did like a Steve Jobs episode where it was my voice. AI had written where it was my voice. AI had written where it was my voice. AI had written the script. AI had synthesized my voice.

the script. AI had synthesized my voice. the script. AI had synthesized my voice. So, I had no involvement. And the amount So, I had no involvement. And the amount So, I had no involvement. And the amount of people that got to the end was 40 to of people that got to the end was 40 to of people that got to the end was 40 to 50% of an hour. uh and they knew it was 50% of an hour. uh and they knew it was 50% of an hour. uh and they knew it was AI because it said at the top this is an AI because it said at the top this is an AI because it said at the top this is an air podcast and so I thought okay there air podcast and so I thought okay there air podcast and so I thought okay there is a lot offormational part of what we is a lot offormational part of what we is a lot offormational part of what we me and you do where we're sharing just me and you do where we're sharing just me and you do where we're sharing just in pure play information that will be in pure play information that will be in pure play information that will be taken away however what I hear through taken away however what I hear through taken away however what I hear through listening to your answer about creators listening to your answer about creators listening to your answer about creators and art you're saying that there will be and art you're saying that there will be and art you're saying that there will be this human sort of irreplaceably human this human sort of irreplaceably human this human sort of irreplaceably human component yoga teachers yoga teachers component yoga teachers yoga teachers component yoga teachers yoga teachers aren't telling you yoga it's also aren't telling you yoga it's also aren't telling you yoga it's also community and gathering in real life and community and gathering in real life and community and gathering in real life and being there amongst other people being there amongst other people being there amongst other people >> I think the IRL job is going to explode >> I think the IRL job is going to explode >> I think the IRL job is going to explode and I think it's going to be extremely and I think it's going to be extremely and I think it's going to be extremely valuable I always had this view like, valuable I always had this view like, valuable I always had this view like, oh, coffee shops will be automated. But oh, coffee shops will be automated. But oh, coffee shops will be automated. But I actually think the opposite is I actually think the opposite is I actually think the opposite is probably true. I think there will be a probably true. I think there will be a probably true. I think there will be a premium on coffee shops. I'll pay $40 premium on coffee shops. I'll pay $40 premium on coffee shops. I'll pay $40 for a latte because that human is making for a latte because that human is making for a latte because that human is making the latte and I get to go be with other the latte and I get to go be with other the latte and I get to go be with other humans. I get to go to a workout class humans. I get to go to a workout class humans. I get to go to a workout class with humans. I get to go spend time at a with humans. I get to go spend time at a with humans. I get to go spend time at a concert. I get to go spend time at concert. I get to go spend time at concert. I get to go spend time at dinners. I think this like event live dinners. I think this like event live dinners. I think this like event live space experiential part of our world space experiential part of our world space experiential part of our world that we kind of think about as luxury that we kind of think about as luxury that we kind of think about as luxury today, maybe it becomes more core. Like today, maybe it becomes more core. Like today, maybe it becomes more core. Like maybe it becomes more of how we spend maybe it becomes more of how we spend maybe it becomes more of how we spend our time. Maybe we spend 30 40% of our our time. Maybe we spend 30 40% of our our time. Maybe we spend 30 40% of our time, you know, in these sorts of spaces time, you know, in these sorts of spaces time, you know, in these sorts of spaces and automation is generating income for and automation is generating income for and automation is generating income for us and supporting us in, you know, us and supporting us in, you know, us and supporting us in, you know, whatever pursuit we're interested in in whatever pursuit we're interested in in whatever pursuit we're interested in in work and we spend far less time doing work and we spend far less time doing work and we spend far less time doing work and far more time paying a premium work and far more time paying a premium work and far more time paying a premium in the economy in the live space in the economy in the live space in the economy in the live space economy.

economy. economy. >> It's hard, isn't it? Because we don't >> It's hard, isn't it? Because we don't >> It's hard, isn't it? Because we don't know what these jobs are. know what these jobs are. know what these jobs are. >> We just don't. And that's >> We just don't. And that's >> We just don't. And that's >> I mean imagine telling someone that >> I mean imagine telling someone that >> I mean imagine telling someone that worked in a factory in 1923 worked in a factory in 1923 worked in a factory in 1923 that fast forward a hundred years that fast forward a hundred years that fast forward a hundred years there's going to be people making X there's going to be people making X there's going to be people making X dollars as personal trainers dollars as personal trainers dollars as personal trainers or there's someone that has a job dog or there's someone that has a job dog or there's someone that has a job dog walking in their neighborhood. I don't walking in their neighborhood. I don't walking in their neighborhood. I don't know if that would have been like grock know if that would have been like grock know if that would have been like grock fully. fully. fully. >> But the pace of disruption here seems to >> But the pace of disruption here seems to >> But the pace of disruption here seems to be different than like the industrial be different than like the industrial be different than like the industrial revolution. It's targeting cognitive revolution. It's targeting cognitive revolution. It's targeting cognitive work. It's built on this platform called work. It's built on this platform called work. It's built on this platform called the internet who which has this the internet who which has this the internet who which has this >> I'm telling you I just don't see it. I I >> I'm telling you I just don't see it. I I >> I'm telling you I just don't see it. I I like at my work everyone's using AI and like at my work everyone's using AI and like at my work everyone's using AI and everyone's just doing more and then they everyone's just doing more and then they everyone's just doing more and then they ask for more employees. You can kind of ask for more employees. You can kind of ask for more employees. You can kind of think about a business having two sides, think about a business having two sides, think about a business having two sides, revenue and costs. Revenue is I'm making revenue and costs. Revenue is I'm making revenue and costs. Revenue is I'm making stuff and people are paying me for the stuff and people are paying me for the stuff and people are paying me for the things I'm making or doing. Cost is how things I'm making or doing. Cost is how things I'm making or doing. Cost is how am I operating the business? Like what am I operating the business? Like what am I operating the business? Like what am I spending? And the argument has am I spending? And the argument has am I spending? And the argument has always been like, okay, you're going to always been like, okay, you're going to always been like, okay, you're going to lose customer service reps. You're going lose customer service reps. You're going lose customer service reps. You're going to lose all the cost side of the to lose all the cost side of the to lose all the cost side of the equation. No one ever says you're going equation. No one ever says you're going equation. No one ever says you're going to lose the revenue side. The truth is to lose the revenue side. The truth is to lose the revenue side. The truth is on the revenue side, what ends up on the revenue side, what ends up on the revenue side, what ends up happening is you create new products happening is you create new products happening is you create new products that you couldn't create before because that you couldn't create before because that you couldn't create before because of AI. The technology enables so much of AI. The technology enables so much of AI. The technology enables so much advancement in your business. Let's say advancement in your business. Let's say advancement in your business. Let's say you're a material science company. This you're a material science company. This you're a material science company. This is totally esoteric, but like let's say is totally esoteric, but like let's say is totally esoteric, but like let's say your job as a company is to discover new your job as a company is to discover new your job as a company is to discover new materials, new pl new synthetics that materials, new pl new synthetics that materials, new pl new synthetics that can be used to make microchips or be can be used to make microchips or be can be used to make microchips or be used for computing or be used for travel used for computing or be used for travel used for computing or be used for travel or for airplanes. The material science or for airplanes. The material science or for airplanes. The material science world has been challenged by its world has been challenged by its world has been challenged by its experimental cycle. You got to create an experimental cycle. You got to create an experimental cycle. You got to create an experiment, make a product, test it, do experiment, make a product, test it, do experiment, make a product, test it, do it all manually. It's all creative

it all manually. It's all creative it all manually. It's all creative ideas. It's all human potential. AI can ideas. It's all human potential. AI can ideas. It's all human potential. AI can now screen through millions of material now screen through millions of material now screen through millions of material science ideas in a computer, print them science ideas in a computer, print them science ideas in a computer, print them out, test them, and you can automate out, test them, and you can automate out, test them, and you can automate that throughput. Therefore, that that throughput. Therefore, that that throughput. Therefore, that materials company can now have more materials company can now have more materials company can now have more revenue. They can make more products. Do revenue. They can make more products. Do revenue. They can make more products. Do you not think that maybe there's a you not think that maybe there's a you not think that maybe there's a possibility that people like me and you possibility that people like me and you possibility that people like me and you exist in this particular band where exist in this particular band where exist in this particular band where because we're both founders and we have because we're both founders and we have because we're both founders and we have capital and we're thinking about how to capital and we're thinking about how to capital and we're thinking about how to really push intelligence to create new really push intelligence to create new really push intelligence to create new things that maybe we because what you're things that maybe we because what you're things that maybe we because what you're saying I I can relate to. I can relate saying I I can relate to. I can relate saying I I can relate to. I can relate to the fact that AI has made me actually to the fact that AI has made me actually to the fact that AI has made me actually quite has probably made me more quite has probably made me more quite has probably made me more ambitious about hiring especially in the ambitious about hiring especially in the ambitious about hiring especially in the near term. I would caveat it by saying near term. I would caveat it by saying near term. I would caveat it by saying that there's a certain type of role that that there's a certain type of role that that there's a certain type of role that I'm now hiring much less and as I'm now hiring much less and as I'm now hiring much less and as especially when you think about entry- especially when you think about entry- especially when you think about entry- level roles, I have to pause a lot more level roles, I have to pause a lot more level roles, I have to pause a lot more now because a lot of the agents and some now because a lot of the agents and some now because a lot of the agents and some tooling can do some of those things that tooling can do some of those things that tooling can do some of those things that I would have otherwise hired for. But I would have otherwise hired for. But I would have otherwise hired for. But generally, I feel like I'm hiring as generally, I feel like I'm hiring as generally, I feel like I'm hiring as fast as I possibly can. But would you fast as I possibly can. But would you fast as I possibly can. But would you not say that for like the 21-year-old not say that for like the 21-year-old not say that for like the 21-year-old that's graduated from university or the that's graduated from university or the that's graduated from university or the Door Dash driver or those types of Door Dash driver or those types of Door Dash driver or those types of individuals where the the leap from individuals where the the leap from individuals where the the leap from where they currently are on a factory where they currently are on a factory where they currently are on a factory floor assembling uh a part or flipping floor assembling uh a part or flipping floor assembling uh a part or flipping packages, the leap from where they are packages, the leap from where they are packages, the leap from where they are to this new world is so great that to this new world is so great that to this new world is so great that there's going to be this messy middle.

there's going to be this messy middle. there's going to be this messy middle. >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is as new >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is as new >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is as new products are created, new revenue comes products are created, new revenue comes products are created, new revenue comes in, you you don't cut costs, you grow in, you you don't cut costs, you grow in, you you don't cut costs, you grow costs and you hire more people and you costs and you hire more people and you costs and you hire more people and you uplevel and you train people. That is uplevel and you train people. That is uplevel and you train people. That is what I'm seeing on the ground. You know, what I'm seeing on the ground. You know, what I'm seeing on the ground. You know, we just published I think one of the we just published I think one of the we just published I think one of the lowest unemployment rates in the US. And lowest unemployment rates in the US. And lowest unemployment rates in the US. And I think that this idea that your current I think that this idea that your current I think that this idea that your current job is going to get disrupted and you're job is going to get disrupted and you're job is going to get disrupted and you're going to lose your job. I don't think is going to lose your job. I don't think is going to lose your job. I don't think is how the enterprise transitions. the how the enterprise transitions. the how the enterprise transitions. the enterprise transitions, meaning enterprise transitions, meaning enterprise transitions, meaning companies, by doing more things and companies, by doing more things and companies, by doing more things and bringing people up the ladder, hiring bringing people up the ladder, hiring bringing people up the ladder, hiring more people. And that's just what I'm more people. And that's just what I'm more people. And that's just what I'm seeing on the ground. I I think that the seeing on the ground. I I think that the seeing on the ground. I I think that the there's a media narrative on like, oh my there's a media narrative on like, oh my there's a media narrative on like, oh my god, there was a layoff at so- and so god, there was a layoff at so- and so god, there was a layoff at so- and so company because it underlines what company because it underlines what company because it underlines what they've been promoting to everyone, they've been promoting to everyone, they've been promoting to everyone, which is AI is going to cause job loss. which is AI is going to cause job loss. which is AI is going to cause job loss. >> The interesting thing is it's it didn't >> The interesting thing is it's it didn't >> The interesting thing is it's it didn't come from the media. come from the media. come from the media. >> It came from the AI guys. >> It came from the AI guys. >> It came from the AI guys. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is the the biggest I I listen to >> This is the the biggest I I listen to >> This is the the biggest I I listen to all in podcasts, by the way. It's one of all in podcasts, by the way. It's one of all in podcasts, by the way. It's one of my favorite podcasts. I don't think I've my favorite podcasts. I don't think I've my favorite podcasts. I don't think I've ever missed an episode. So, I I very ever missed an episode. So, I I very ever missed an episode. So, I I very much understand your perspective in all much understand your perspective in all much understand your perspective in all of your of your of your >> I had no idea you were a fan. >> I had no idea you were a fan. >> I had no idea you were a fan. >> No, no, I I've listened to >> No, no, I I've listened to >> No, no, I I've listened to >> I've gone on people's shows where >> I've gone on people's shows where >> I've gone on people's shows where they're like, I don't know who you are, they're like, I don't know who you are, they're like, I don't know who you are, and I'm like, [laughter] it's good to and I'm like, [laughter] it's good to and I'm like, [laughter] it's good to meet you.

meet you. meet you. >> No, no, no. I've I don't think I've ever >> No, no, no. I've I don't think I've ever >> No, no, no. I've I don't think I've ever missed an episode since the beginning. missed an episode since the beginning. missed an episode since the beginning. So, I I understand. So, I I understand. So, I I understand. >> You've been through You've heard all >> You've been through You've heard all >> You've been through You've heard all this. this. this. >> I've heard all of this. I've heard like >> I've heard all of this. I've heard like >> I've heard all of this. I've heard like Jason's opinion. Weirdly, I tend to side Jason's opinion. Weirdly, I tend to side Jason's opinion. Weirdly, I tend to side a little bit more with Jason on this a little bit more with Jason on this a little bit more with Jason on this because I think Jason I don't know why because I think Jason I don't know why because I think Jason I don't know why his arguments seem to present the most his arguments seem to present the most his arguments seem to present the most nuance and and also I would say when we nuance and and also I would say when we nuance and and also I would say when we think about different people's think about different people's think about different people's incentives. Yeah, you're right. often on incentives. Yeah, you're right. often on incentives. Yeah, you're right. often on that show that it's framed as a media that show that it's framed as a media that show that it's framed as a media narrative whereas it's actually all your narrative whereas it's actually all your narrative whereas it's actually all your friends. friends. friends. >> Yeah. No. So, first of all, none of them >> Yeah. No. So, first of all, none of them >> Yeah. No. So, first of all, none of them are my friends. But, um, are my friends. But, um, are my friends. But, um, >> he loves your friend. >> he loves your friend. >> he loves your friend. >> Okay. So, what I will say, look, I've >> Okay. So, what I will say, look, I've >> Okay. So, what I will say, look, I've said this on the show, I'll say it said this on the show, I'll say it said this on the show, I'll say it again. I think there is a deep arrogance again. I think there is a deep arrogance again. I think there is a deep arrogance in making these sorts of proclamations. in making these sorts of proclamations. in making these sorts of proclamations. >> Which proclamations? >> Which proclamations? >> Which proclamations? >> That we're not going to work anymore. >> That we're not going to work anymore. >> That we're not going to work anymore. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> It effectively discounts the human. It's >> It effectively discounts the human. It's >> It effectively discounts the human. It's like what you do today is your limit. like what you do today is your limit. like what you do today is your limit. But I think that this idea that like But I think that this idea that like But I think that this idea that like these jobs will go away is sourced by these jobs will go away is sourced by these jobs will go away is sourced by people that are seeing the crazy stuff people that are seeing the crazy stuff people that are seeing the crazy stuff that they're doing and they're like, "Oh that they're doing and they're like, "Oh that they're doing and they're like, "Oh my god, this is amazing. I'm responsible my god, this is amazing. I'm responsible my god, this is amazing. I'm responsible for this. We are going to change the for this. We are going to change the for this. We are going to change the world. We are going to take all jobs and world. We are going to take all jobs and world. We are going to take all jobs and they're all going to sit in my they're all going to sit in my they're all going to sit in my computer." I don't think that that's computer." I don't think that that's computer." I don't think that that's what happens because I think that humans what happens because I think that humans what happens because I think that humans have a profound capacity for doing have a profound capacity for doing have a profound capacity for doing things that, you know, these things that, you know, these things that, you know, these technologists don't necessarily see. The technologists don't necessarily see. The technologists don't necessarily see. The great technologists see technology. They great technologists see technology. They great technologists see technology. They don't see people.

don't see people. don't see people. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I think you have to see people meaning >> I think you have to see people meaning >> I think you have to see people meaning the the potential of people of the the potential of people of the the potential of people of individuals and you have to believe in individuals and you have to believe in individuals and you have to believe in that. They believe in technology. They that. They believe in technology. They that. They believe in technology. They engineer technology. But I I am not engineer technology. But I I am not engineer technology. But I I am not going to like be pessimistic about going to like be pessimistic about going to like be pessimistic about people. Like I think that people have people. Like I think that people have people. Like I think that people have capacity in any environment. I mean the capacity in any environment. I mean the capacity in any environment. I mean the amazing thing about humans is our amazing thing about humans is our amazing thing about humans is our adaptability. We can live in any adaptability. We can live in any adaptability. We can live in any climate. We can eat any kind of food. I climate. We can eat any kind of food. I climate. We can eat any kind of food. I mean that's all this like we can work mean that's all this like we can work mean that's all this like we can work all these different jobs. I mean we're all these different jobs. I mean we're all these different jobs. I mean we're amazing. Humans are amazing. And amazing. Humans are amazing. And amazing. Humans are amazing. And arguably many humans have been limited arguably many humans have been limited arguably many humans have been limited in their potential. And I think that AI in their potential. And I think that AI in their potential. And I think that AI enables more capacity for those enables more capacity for those enables more capacity for those individuals to realize more of their individuals to realize more of their individuals to realize more of their potential. potential. potential. >> Much of the conversation we've had about >> Much of the conversation we've had about >> Much of the conversation we've had about the US economy has centered around the US economy has centered around the US economy has centered around incentive structures leading to incentive structures leading to incentive structures leading to inevitable outcomes. inevitable outcomes. inevitable outcomes. >> You know, the older I've gotten, the >> You know, the older I've gotten, the >> You know, the older I've gotten, the more I just try and look at incentives. more I just try and look at incentives. more I just try and look at incentives. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To figure out behavior and also to >> To figure out behavior and also to >> To figure out behavior and also to figure out who to trust. figure out who to trust. figure out who to trust. So when I look at the incentives of the So when I look at the incentives of the So when I look at the incentives of the people that are building the AI people that are building the AI people that are building the AI companies, Andy Jasse has said that companies, Andy Jasse has said that companies, Andy Jasse has said that there's going to be fewer people doing there's going to be fewer people doing there's going to be fewer people doing some of the jobs that are being done some of the jobs that are being done some of the jobs that are being done today. Um then they cut, you know, tens today. Um then they cut, you know, tens today. Um then they cut, you know, tens of thousands of jobs. Mark Benov, who I of thousands of jobs. Mark Benov, who I of thousands of jobs. Mark Benov, who I know has been on your show, cut 4,000 know has been on your show, cut 4,000 know has been on your show, cut 4,000 jobs and said, I need less heads because jobs and said, I need less heads because jobs and said, I need less heads because of AI. And I like, okay, maybe they're of AI. And I like, okay, maybe they're of AI. And I like, okay, maybe they're saying that because they want their saying that because they want their saying that because they want their share price to go up because it's a share price to go up because it's a share price to go up because it's a good, you know, we're going to reduce good, you know, we're going to reduce good, you know, we're going to reduce cost is a good narrative. But then I cost is a good narrative. But then I cost is a good narrative. But then I look at the other the AI CEOs, Dario, look at the other the AI CEOs, Dario, look at the other the AI CEOs, Dario, Elon, Sam Alman, and I go their Elon, Sam Alman, and I go their Elon, Sam Alman, and I go their incentives, I'd say other other than the incentives, I'd say other other than the incentives, I'd say other other than the exception of Elon, um, have just kind of exception of Elon, um, have just kind of exception of Elon, um, have just kind of changed with whatever's good for them at changed with whatever's good for them at changed with whatever's good for them at that moment oftent times. I I actually I that moment oftent times. I I actually I that moment oftent times. I I actually I think Daria might be the exception a think Daria might be the exception a think Daria might be the exception a little bit because he seems to be a bit

little bit because he seems to be a bit little bit because he seems to be a bit more nuanced. If I go back through the more nuanced. If I go back through the more nuanced. If I go back through the quotes of these individuals, you have quotes of these individuals, you have quotes of these individuals, you have Sam Alman in February 2015 saying, Sam Alman in February 2015 saying, Sam Alman in February 2015 saying, "Development of supermachine "Development of supermachine "Development of supermachine intelligence is probably the greatest intelligence is probably the greatest intelligence is probably the greatest threat to the continued existence of threat to the continued existence of threat to the continued existence of humanity." You have Elon in 2014 saying, humanity." You have Elon in 2014 saying, humanity." You have Elon in 2014 saying, "With artificial intelligence, we are "With artificial intelligence, we are "With artificial intelligence, we are summoning the demon. It's far more summoning the demon. It's far more summoning the demon. It's far more dangerous than nukes. Mitigating the dangerous than nukes. Mitigating the dangerous than nukes. Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a risk of extinction from AI should be a risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside societal scale global priority alongside societal scale global priority alongside societal scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear risks such as pandemics and nuclear risks such as pandemics and nuclear wars." And that was signed by Sam Alman, wars." And that was signed by Sam Alman, wars." And that was signed by Sam Alman, Demis, Dario, Bill Gates amongst many Demis, Dario, Bill Gates amongst many Demis, Dario, Bill Gates amongst many hundreds of others. Sam Alman in the hundreds of others. Sam Alman in the hundreds of others. Sam Alman in the Senate in 2023. I think if this Senate in 2023. I think if this Senate in 2023. I think if this technology goes wrong, it can go very technology goes wrong, it can go very technology goes wrong, it can go very wrong. Open AI super intelligence wrong. Open AI super intelligence wrong. Open AI super intelligence letter. They wrote the disempowerment of letter. They wrote the disempowerment of letter. They wrote the disempowerment of humanity or even human extinction could humanity or even human extinction could humanity or even human extinction could be caused by super intelligence. Again, be caused by super intelligence. Again, be caused by super intelligence. Again, in the athletic sortman, jobs are in the athletic sortman, jobs are in the athletic sortman, jobs are definitely going to go away. Full stop. definitely going to go away. Full stop. definitely going to go away. Full stop. Barry Arma Day May 2025 he predicted a Barry Arma Day May 2025 he predicted a Barry Arma Day May 2025 he predicted a white collar blood bath half of entry white collar blood bath half of entry white collar blood bath half of entry level white collar jobs gone level white collar jobs gone level white collar jobs gone unemployment at 10 to 20% within 1 to unemployment at 10 to 20% within 1 to unemployment at 10 to 20% within 1 to five years 10 to 20% unemployment in 1 five years 10 to 20% unemployment in 1 five years 10 to 20% unemployment in 1 to 5 years it's pretty high to 5 years it's pretty high to 5 years it's pretty high >> and Alman at the Federal Reserve in July >> and Alman at the Federal Reserve in July >> and Alman at the Federal Reserve in July 2025 said um whole job categories will 2025 said um whole job categories will 2025 said um whole job categories will disappear customer support first that disappear customer support first that disappear customer support first that one is quote totally totally gone and one is quote totally totally gone and one is quote totally totally gone and then suddenly the message changed before then suddenly the message changed before then suddenly the message changed before his sort of preipo discussions he said his sort of preipo discussions he said his sort of preipo discussions he said things could go pretty wrong and then he things could go pretty wrong and then he things could go pretty wrong and then he says that he now has changed his mind says that he now has changed his mind says that he now has changed his mind and he's delighted that he feels like he and he's delighted that he feels like he and he's delighted that he feels like he was wrong and suddenly he's talking was wrong and suddenly he's talking was wrong and suddenly he's talking about how open AAI and chatting will

about how open AAI and chatting will about how open AAI and chatting will benefit all of humanity benefit all of humanity benefit all of humanity >> and that's their goal. Should we trust >> and that's their goal. Should we trust >> and that's their goal. Should we trust the same people that told us to be the same people that told us to be the same people that told us to be scared when they say don't be scared? scared when they say don't be scared? scared when they say don't be scared? >> First of all, I think there was a bunch >> First of all, I think there was a bunch >> First of all, I think there was a bunch of companies that said early on that of companies that said early on that of companies that said early on that they were like cutting all their they were like cutting all their they were like cutting all their customer service reps, which was the big customer service reps, which was the big customer service reps, which was the big company starts with a K. company starts with a K. company starts with a K. >> Cler, but I did call the founder. >> Cler, but I did call the founder. >> Cler, but I did call the founder. >> And what did you find out? >> And what did you find out? >> And what did you find out? >> He said that he's been misinterpreted in >> He said that he's been misinterpreted in >> He said that he's been misinterpreted in the press. So, I heard you guys talk the press. So, I heard you guys talk the press. So, I heard you guys talk about this on the Allen podcast, but about this on the Allen podcast, but about this on the Allen podcast, but I've actually called him live on this I've actually called him live on this I've actually called him live on this show. show. show. >> And did he rehire or like what did he >> And did he rehire or like what did he >> And did he rehire or like what did he do? do? do? >> He said that the miss the media just >> He said that the miss the media just >> He said that the miss the media just completely miscon completely miscon completely miscon >> He said he had 7,000 employees by the >> He said he had 7,000 employees by the >> He said he had 7,000 employees by the end of last summer. He said he had on end of last summer. He said he had on end of last summer. He said he had on 3,000, but the media framed it as I had 3,000, but the media framed it as I had 3,000, but the media framed it as I had 7,000 employees and then I tried to cut 7,000 employees and then I tried to cut 7,000 employees and then I tried to cut some. I realized I couldn't and I went some. I realized I couldn't and I went some. I realized I couldn't and I went back. That's not what happened. And it's back. That's not what happened. And it's back. That's not what happened. And it's it just I see it on all these podcasts it just I see it on all these podcasts it just I see it on all these podcasts and I'm just repeating it. I heard it and I'm just repeating it. I heard it and I'm just repeating it. I heard it repeated on your show like repeated on your show like repeated on your show like >> but he said we are cutting because of >> but he said we are cutting because of >> but he said we are cutting because of AI. AI. AI. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And he's confirmed that he's doing that. >> And he's confirmed that he's doing that. >> And he's confirmed that he's doing that. He's DM'd me on on X. I've got the DM He's DM'd me on on X. I've got the DM He's DM'd me on on X. I've got the DM and live on this show he confirmed it to and live on this show he confirmed it to and live on this show he confirmed it to all one of our listeners. all one of our listeners. all one of our listeners. >> Is his business still growing? >> Is his business still growing? >> Is his business still growing? >> The business is growing. What he did >> The business is growing. What he did >> The business is growing. What he did say, and this is a point of nuance, is say, and this is a point of nuance, is say, and this is a point of nuance, is with the cost savings, he's able to with the cost savings, he's able to with the cost savings, he's able to offer better white glove services to his offer better white glove services to his offer better white glove services to his highest ticket clients, highest ticket clients, highest ticket clients, >> which it makes a lot of sense.

>> which it makes a lot of sense. >> which it makes a lot of sense. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And you could think about that analogy >> And you could think about that analogy >> And you could think about that analogy being in like another business where being in like another business where being in like another business where they would take that capital, invest in they would take that capital, invest in they would take that capital, invest in offering new products, new services, but offering new products, new services, but offering new products, new services, but then you need employees to offer those then you need employees to offer those then you need employees to offer those new products and new services. And so new products and new services. And so new products and new services. And so you do actually hire up and I think that you do actually hire up and I think that you do actually hire up and I think that is what I am actually seeing on the is what I am actually seeing on the is what I am actually seeing on the ground. And while he may have this acute ground. And while he may have this acute ground. And while he may have this acute restructuring he's doing on the ground I restructuring he's doing on the ground I restructuring he's doing on the ground I just see people hiring more because they just see people hiring more because they just see people hiring more because they can do more with AI. It's can do more with AI. It's can do more with AI. It's counterintuitive but if you're a counterintuitive but if you're a counterintuitive but if you're a business manager you can invest $10 and business manager you can invest $10 and business manager you can invest $10 and make one product a year or you can make one product a year or you can make one product a year or you can invest $20 and make five products a invest $20 and make five products a invest $20 and make five products a year. You're going to invest the $20 to year. You're going to invest the $20 to year. You're going to invest the $20 to make five products a year. You're going make five products a year. You're going make five products a year. You're going to spend more. And I think that's what to spend more. And I think that's what to spend more. And I think that's what AI does. as soon as you have the ability AI does. as soon as you have the ability AI does. as soon as you have the ability to get leverage on how much more to get leverage on how much more to get leverage on how much more productive people are, you'll put more productive people are, you'll put more productive people are, you'll put more capital towards hiring more people and capital towards hiring more people and capital towards hiring more people and scale up. I that's just what I'm seeing. scale up. I that's just what I'm seeing. scale up. I that's just what I'm seeing. And look, I could be wrong and all jobs And look, I could be wrong and all jobs And look, I could be wrong and all jobs go away in 5 years and we have 20% go away in 5 years and we have 20% go away in 5 years and we have 20% unemployment. I don't think that that's unemployment. I don't think that that's unemployment. I don't think that that's the case. I think that again like we can the case. I think that again like we can the case. I think that again like we can go back to this like where are people go back to this like where are people go back to this like where are people going to be spending their time? I do going to be spending their time? I do going to be spending their time? I do think that there's going to be a big think that there's going to be a big think that there's going to be a big growth in media. I think there's going growth in media. I think there's going growth in media. I think there's going to be a big growth in um and media to be a big growth in um and media to be a big growth in um and media encompassing everything, digital content encompassing everything, digital content encompassing everything, digital content creation, etc. I think there's going to creation, etc. I think there's going to creation, etc. I think there's going to be a big growth in entrepreneurship and be a big growth in entrepreneurship and be a big growth in entrepreneurship and I think there's going to be a big growth I think there's going to be a big growth I think there's going to be a big growth in IRL stuff.

in IRL stuff. in IRL stuff. >> I'll play this interviews and um client >> I'll play this interviews and um client >> I'll play this interviews and um client has always mentioned because I think the has always mentioned because I think the has always mentioned because I think the media has said that you like double down media has said that you like double down media has said that you like double down on AI then you reversed because it on AI then you reversed because it on AI then you reversed because it didn't work out. So I know I spoke to didn't work out. So I know I spoke to didn't work out. So I know I spoke to you a while ago and we exchanged a you a while ago and we exchanged a you a while ago and we exchanged a couple of DMs about it but that was more couple of DMs about it but that was more couple of DMs about it but that was more than a it was almost a year ago now. So than a it was almost a year ago now. So than a it was almost a year ago now. So I just wanted to get an update on Cler's I just wanted to get an update on Cler's I just wanted to get an update on Cler's business AI agents and all of that if business AI agents and all of that if business AI agents and all of that if possible. This was 5 months ago. First possible. This was 5 months ago. First possible. This was 5 months ago. First and foremost, we were early on uh and foremost, we were early on uh and foremost, we were early on uh released um AI uh to support our released um AI uh to support our released um AI uh to support our customer service which had that uh customer service which had that uh customer service which had that uh initial uh benefit of uh more calls initial uh benefit of uh more calls initial uh benefit of uh more calls being dealt with by AI which customers being dealt with by AI which customers being dealt with by AI which customers liked because those calls or chat liked because those calls or chat liked because those calls or chat messages were much much faster and more messages were much much faster and more messages were much much faster and more qualitative. Then since then that has qualitative. Then since then that has qualitative. Then since then that has actually expanded slightly. Um what we actually expanded slightly. Um what we actually expanded slightly. Um what we did however try to communicate as well did however try to communicate as well did however try to communicate as well is that we believed in a world of where is that we believed in a world of where is that we believed in a world of where AI is cheap and available the value of AI is cheap and available the value of AI is cheap and available the value of human interaction will be regarded as human interaction will be regarded as human interaction will be regarded as higher. So the future of customer higher. So the future of customer higher. So the future of customer service VIP is a human. Um we have then service VIP is a human. Um we have then service VIP is a human. Um we have then hence doubled down on providing more of hence doubled down on providing more of hence doubled down on providing more of that but at the same time the efficiency that but at the same time the efficiency that but at the same time the efficiency gains within the company has continued.

gains within the company has continued. gains within the company has continued. I mean we used to be about 6,000 people I mean we used to be about 6,000 people I mean we used to be about 6,000 people and and now we are less than 3,000 which and and now we are less than 3,000 which and and now we are less than 3,000 which is 2 3 years since we stopped recruiting is 2 3 years since we stopped recruiting is 2 3 years since we stopped recruiting and at same point of time our revenue and at same point of time our revenue and at same point of time our revenue has doubled right so has doubled right so has doubled right so >> no this is a startup just to be clear I >> no this is a startup just to be clear I >> no this is a startup just to be clear I I don't know if we can and again I'm not I don't know if we can and again I'm not I don't know if we can and again I'm not going to like sit here and concede or going to like sit here and concede or going to like sit here and concede or argue jobs aren't going to change but a argue jobs aren't going to change but a argue jobs aren't going to change but a startup that grew very quickly and then startup that grew very quickly and then startup that grew very quickly and then to cut heads is a pretty common to cut heads is a pretty common to cut heads is a pretty common phenomenon um so I don't know how much phenomenon um so I don't know how much phenomenon um so I don't know how much restructure ing he was doing in in his restructure ing he was doing in in his restructure ing he was doing in in his AIification of his business. That's AIification of his business. That's AIification of his business. That's totally fine and totally fair. But the totally fine and totally fair. But the totally fine and totally fair. But the question is what are the people that question is what are the people that question is what are the people that were doing customer service calls and were doing customer service calls and were doing customer service calls and sitting, you know, how many of them were sitting, you know, how many of them were sitting, you know, how many of them were actually fully occupied on the phone? I actually fully occupied on the phone? I actually fully occupied on the phone? I don't know. don't know. don't know. >> Like were they on the phone for 4 hours >> Like were they on the phone for 4 hours >> Like were they on the phone for 4 hours a day, 2 hours a day, or 8 hours a day? a day, 2 hours a day, or 8 hours a day? a day, 2 hours a day, or 8 hours a day? Were they actually fully employed? Were they actually fully employed? Were they actually fully employed? Really? Were they truly fully employed? Really? Were they truly fully employed? Really? Were they truly fully employed? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. >> And what are they doing now? And is >> And what are they doing now? And is >> And what are they doing now? And is whatever they doing now, is that whatever they doing now, is that whatever they doing now, is that defensible again from this spread of defensible again from this spread of defensible again from this spread of intelligence? Yeah, intelligence? Yeah, intelligence? Yeah, >> they could be Door Dash. I know. They >> they could be Door Dash. I know. They >> they could be Door Dash. I know. They could be lawyers, but they could also be could be lawyers, but they could also be could be lawyers, but they could also be doing Door Dash. And Dar sat here and doing Door Dash. And Dar sat here and doing Door Dash. And Dar sat here and said that the 9,000 people that are said that the 9,000 people that are said that the 9,000 people that are riders won't have jobs.

riders won't have jobs. riders won't have jobs. >> The ones that are driving food around. >> The ones that are driving food around. >> The ones that are driving food around. Yeah. And drivers. Yeah. And drivers. Yeah. And drivers. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's obviously all their big >> That's obviously all their big >> That's obviously all their big investments. I was with him the other investments. I was with him the other investments. I was with him the other day and he was talking about their day and he was talking about their day and he was talking about their autonomous vehicle investments. autonomous vehicle investments. autonomous vehicle investments. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And how I mean that's the big >> And how I mean that's the big >> And how I mean that's the big >> What does he What does he think? >> What does he What does he think? >> What does he What does he think? >> He thinks that those drivers will have >> He thinks that those drivers will have >> He thinks that those drivers will have to go will do something else. to go will do something else. to go will do something else. >> What does he think that something else >> What does he think that something else >> What does he think that something else is? is? is? >> He loosely hypothesized [laughter] what >> He loosely hypothesized [laughter] what >> He loosely hypothesized [laughter] what it might be. It could be data labeling. it might be. It could be data labeling. it might be. It could be data labeling. Now, let me just go back because your Now, let me just go back because your Now, let me just go back because your whole point about like AI is going to whole point about like AI is going to whole point about like AI is going to destroy us all and these guys were destroy us all and these guys were destroy us all and these guys were making all these claims and then they making all these claims and then they making all these claims and then they all kind of backtracked. I think there's all kind of backtracked. I think there's all kind of backtracked. I think there's an important question to ask which is an important question to ask which is an important question to ask which is like should we stop AI development and like should we stop AI development and like should we stop AI development and can we meaning can we really affect what can we meaning can we really affect what can we meaning can we really affect what China does? Can we really affect what China does? Can we really affect what China does? Can we really affect what Europe does? Can we really affect what Europe does? Can we really affect what Europe does? Can we really affect what some lab in Indonesia does if they get a some lab in Indonesia does if they get a some lab in Indonesia does if they get a group of people together? The there are group of people together? The there are group of people together? The there are moments in human history when technology moments in human history when technology moments in human history when technology advances and it's not like you can just advances and it's not like you can just advances and it's not like you can just put the catapult away and be like let's put the catapult away and be like let's put the catapult away and be like let's like no one can develop the catapult like no one can develop the catapult like no one can develop the catapult anymore. Like once the catapult's out anymore. Like once the catapult's out anymore. Like once the catapult's out there, the catapult's out there. We're there, the catapult's out there. We're there, the catapult's out there. We're just there. So the the the question is just there. So the the the question is just there. So the the the question is like it's what is going to enable the like it's what is going to enable the like it's what is going to enable the most kind of productive path forward most kind of productive path forward most kind of productive path forward for, you know, US policy for US for, you know, US policy for US for, you know, US policy for US citizens? And China's asking themselves citizens? And China's asking themselves citizens? And China's asking themselves the same question. What's the most the same question. What's the most the same question. What's the most productive path forward, China policy productive path forward, China policy productive path forward, China policy for China citizens? China's answer, I for China citizens? China's answer, I for China citizens? China's answer, I think, is to make models free and think, is to make models free and think, is to make models free and ubiquitous, which by the way benefits a ubiquitous, which by the way benefits a ubiquitous, which by the way benefits a large part of the global economy, but it large part of the global economy, but it large part of the global economy, but it doesn't do very well with Sam Alman, doesn't do very well with Sam Alman, doesn't do very well with Sam Alman, Daario, Google, or others that have Daario, Google, or others that have Daario, Google, or others that have invested billions or hundreds of invested billions or hundreds of invested billions or hundreds of billions of dollars in model billions of dollars in model billions of dollars in model development. And now those those development. And now those those development. And now those those investments that they've made have been investments that they've made have been investments that they've made have been reduced to to rubble because China's got reduced to to rubble because China's got reduced to to rubble because China's got a model that's as good or cheaper. So, I

a model that's as good or cheaper. So, I a model that's as good or cheaper. So, I think the more important question is think the more important question is think the more important question is like what does the US do to navigate? If like what does the US do to navigate? If like what does the US do to navigate? If we stop data centers, those data centers we stop data centers, those data centers we stop data centers, those data centers are going to be built somewhere else. are going to be built somewhere else. are going to be built somewhere else. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> They'll be built in Iceland. They'll be >> They'll be built in Iceland. They'll be >> They'll be built in Iceland. They'll be built in China. They'll be built in built in China. They'll be built in built in China. They'll be built in Indonesia. They'll be built in places Indonesia. They'll be built in places Indonesia. They'll be built in places where you can get access to energy and where you can get access to energy and where you can get access to energy and plug them into the internet. Now they're plug them into the internet. Now they're plug them into the internet. Now they're on the internet. So, do we want those on the internet. So, do we want those on the internet. So, do we want those data centers to exist in the US because data centers to exist in the US because data centers to exist in the US because they're going to create jobs and create they're going to create jobs and create they're going to create jobs and create economic value or do we want them to be economic value or do we want them to be economic value or do we want them to be built offshore? Do we want to have the built offshore? Do we want to have the built offshore? Do we want to have the AI models built in the US or do we want AI models built in the US or do we want AI models built in the US or do we want to have them built by China? Those are to have them built by China? Those are to have them built by China? Those are the I think the important policy the I think the important policy the I think the important policy decisions. The idea that you can slow or decisions. The idea that you can slow or decisions. The idea that you can slow or stop AI development, I unfortunately stop AI development, I unfortunately stop AI development, I unfortunately think at this moment it's too far too think at this moment it's too far too think at this moment it's too far too late. Like the AI is out there, late. Like the AI is out there, late. Like the AI is out there, the framing on is it bad or is it good the framing on is it bad or is it good the framing on is it bad or is it good um I think requires um I think requires um I think requires a observation on what's going on on the a observation on what's going on on the a observation on what's going on on the ground. And I do think there's a ton of ground. And I do think there's a ton of ground. And I do think there's a ton of stories. I mean look at the number of stories. I mean look at the number of stories. I mean look at the number of companies that are doing stuff that you companies that are doing stuff that you companies that are doing stuff that you could never do before because of AI. I could never do before because of AI. I could never do before because of AI. I mean just just to get into your point mean just just to get into your point mean just just to get into your point about delivery. I mean, there are about delivery. I mean, there are about delivery. I mean, there are delivery companies delivering robots on delivery companies delivering robots on delivery companies delivering robots on the ground, robotic cars, drones. Those the ground, robotic cars, drones. Those the ground, robotic cars, drones. Those companies aren't employee lists. There's companies aren't employee lists. There's companies aren't employee lists. There's now 15,000 new jobs being created at the now 15,000 new jobs being created at the now 15,000 new jobs being created at the factory that's making the the robots or factory that's making the the robots or factory that's making the the robots or 15,000 jobs to service the robots cuz 15,000 jobs to service the robots cuz 15,000 jobs to service the robots cuz they're breaking down all the time or they're breaking down all the time or they're breaking down all the time or 15,000 jobs to get the food made that 15,000 jobs to get the food made that 15,000 jobs to get the food made that goes into the robots or maybe that gets goes into the robots or maybe that gets goes into the robots or maybe that gets automated. But like, as you kind of automated. But like, as you kind of automated. But like, as you kind of think about the impact, the economy think about the impact, the economy think about the impact, the economy doesn't just shrink in terms of jobs.

doesn't just shrink in terms of jobs. doesn't just shrink in terms of jobs. We're just not seeing it in the data. We're just not seeing it in the data. We're just not seeing it in the data. It's not happening. and and and when it It's not happening. and and and when it It's not happening. and and and when it does happen, I think that's a good time does happen, I think that's a good time does happen, I think that's a good time to have a conversation about AI taxes to have a conversation about AI taxes to have a conversation about AI taxes and all this sort of stuff. and all this sort of stuff. and all this sort of stuff. >> Let's ask that question. And what would >> Let's ask that question. And what would >> Let's ask that question. And what would have to happen? What what sort of metric have to happen? What what sort of metric have to happen? What what sort of metric or piece of evidence would be? or piece of evidence would be? or piece of evidence would be? >> Job loss. >> Job loss. >> Job loss. >> Job loss. >> Job loss. >> Job loss. >> Yeah. And wage growth, right? So, if >> Yeah. And wage growth, right? So, if >> Yeah. And wage growth, right? So, if wages are declining and um uh uh wages are declining and um uh uh wages are declining and um uh uh unemployment is climbing, that's a red unemployment is climbing, that's a red unemployment is climbing, that's a red flag. I mean, that's an alert moment and flag. I mean, that's an alert moment and flag. I mean, that's an alert moment and that's when we have to address this from that's when we have to address this from that's when we have to address this from policy. But it's very speculative right policy. But it's very speculative right policy. But it's very speculative right now. And if you get in the way and you now. And if you get in the way and you now. And if you get in the way and you stop it and you stop advancement or like stop it and you stop advancement or like stop it and you stop advancement or like the ability to create higher paying the ability to create higher paying the ability to create higher paying jobs, the ability to create new jobs and jobs, the ability to create new jobs and jobs, the ability to create new jobs and you turn it you turn all of that off, you turn it you turn all of that off, you turn it you turn all of that off, it's going to happen in China, it's it's going to happen in China, it's it's going to happen in China, it's going to happen in Europe, it's going to going to happen in Europe, it's going to going to happen in Europe, it's going to happen in South America and the US gets happen in South America and the US gets happen in South America and the US gets left behind. Maybe that's the decision left behind. Maybe that's the decision left behind. Maybe that's the decision that, you know, we decide to make. But I that, you know, we decide to make. But I that, you know, we decide to make. But I would argue that this kind of tracking would argue that this kind of tracking would argue that this kind of tracking of what's the consequence that we're of what's the consequence that we're of what's the consequence that we're worried about is the most important worried about is the most important worried about is the most important thing to be doing at the moment. You thing to be doing at the moment. You thing to be doing at the moment. You might have heard about the study that I might have heard about the study that I might have heard about the study that I think it was Stanford that did it and think it was Stanford that did it and think it was Stanford that did it and they showed that there was a 13% they showed that there was a 13% they showed that there was a 13% relative decline in employment for relative decline in employment for relative decline in employment for workers aged 22 to 25 in roles most workers aged 22 to 25 in roles most workers aged 22 to 25 in roles most exposed to generative AI. Could it be exposed to generative AI. Could it be exposed to generative AI. Could it be that by the time we start seeing that by the time we start seeing that by the time we start seeing significant job loss, it's a little bit significant job loss, it's a little bit significant job loss, it's a little bit too late to be having the conversation too late to be having the conversation too late to be having the conversation because it could be quite a rapid because it could be quite a rapid because it could be quite a rapid decline. If you think about the nature decline. If you think about the nature decline. If you think about the nature of this technology and the adoption of of this technology and the adoption of of this technology and the adoption of it.

it. it. >> No, no. I think what you're describing >> No, no. I think what you're describing >> No, no. I think what you're describing is exactly the right time is exactly the right time is exactly the right time >> when when we see the the first sign. >> when when we see the the first sign. >> when when we see the the first sign. >> Yeah. So what are those changes that are >> Yeah. So what are those changes that are >> Yeah. So what are those changes that are happening? Now the question is if you happening? Now the question is if you happening? Now the question is if you dig into that and I do understand this dig into that and I do understand this dig into that and I do understand this like in in software engineering what's like in in software engineering what's like in in software engineering what's happening right now is young people are happening right now is young people are happening right now is young people are not getting hired. You can use AI to not getting hired. You can use AI to not getting hired. You can use AI to write a lot of code write a lot of code write a lot of code >> but in order to be really good at using >> but in order to be really good at using >> but in order to be really good at using AI to write a lot of code you got to AI to write a lot of code you got to AI to write a lot of code you got to have experience writing code. have experience writing code. have experience writing code. >> Yeah. And so there's a fight for senior >> Yeah. And so there's a fight for senior >> Yeah. And so there's a fight for senior experienced software engineers and experienced software engineers and experienced software engineers and there's disinterest in junior software there's disinterest in junior software there's disinterest in junior software engineers because you're not just engineers because you're not just engineers because you're not just putting a junior software engineer in a putting a junior software engineer in a putting a junior software engineer in a seat to have them write their first line seat to have them write their first line seat to have them write their first line of code which is what you used to do. of code which is what you used to do. of code which is what you used to do. With AI you can turn one engineer into a With AI you can turn one engineer into a With AI you can turn one engineer into a hundred but the junior guy is not going hundred but the junior guy is not going hundred but the junior guy is not going to do that. The senior person is. So you to do that. The senior person is. So you to do that. The senior person is. So you want to hire more senior people and want to hire more senior people and want to hire more senior people and that's what's happening in software that's what's happening in software that's what's happening in software across the board right now. across the board right now. across the board right now. >> But more of the operational functions >> But more of the operational functions >> But more of the operational functions that used to be done by people are also that used to be done by people are also that used to be done by people are also just being done by software. So, if I just being done by software. So, if I just being done by software. So, if I think about you might have had a p a PA think about you might have had a p a PA think about you might have had a p a PA whose job was to respond to your emails whose job was to respond to your emails whose job was to respond to your emails and check your emails and organize them and check your emails and organize them and check your emails and organize them and put them in your Monday board. Now, and put them in your Monday board. Now, and put them in your Monday board. Now, with agents, I have an agent that goes with agents, I have an agent that goes with agents, I have an agent that goes across all of my inboxes every single across all of my inboxes every single across all of my inboxes every single day, pulls everything into this central day, pulls everything into this central day, pulls everything into this central system. And I would have I used to have system. And I would have I used to have system. And I would have I used to have someone doing that kind of work. Now, someone doing that kind of work. Now, someone doing that kind of work. Now, it's a software job. Now, it's Claude it's a software job. Now, it's Claude it's a software job. Now, it's Claude doing it.

doing it. doing it. >> So, now the PA can use Claude to do it. >> So, now the PA can use Claude to do it. >> So, now the PA can use Claude to do it. >> I I don't need the PA. I can just do it >> I I don't need the PA. I can just do it >> I I don't need the PA. I can just do it myself. myself. myself. >> Okay. What What else could you use that >> Okay. What What else could you use that >> Okay. What What else could you use that PA for in your life that you couldn't PA for in your life that you couldn't PA for in your life that you couldn't even contemplate using that PA for in even contemplate using that PA for in even contemplate using that PA for in the past? the past? the past? >> At the moment, it's real world stuff. I >> At the moment, it's real world stuff. I >> At the moment, it's real world stuff. I probably would have continued to hire probably would have continued to hire probably would have continued to hire more in that team, more in that team, more in that team, >> but now I don't need to because I've >> but now I don't need to because I've >> but now I don't need to because I've got, you know, this agent that does my got, you know, this agent that does my got, you know, this agent that does my scheduling can help me with my scheduling can help me with my scheduling can help me with my scheduling. scheduling. scheduling. >> What are you gonna do with the money you >> What are you gonna do with the money you >> What are you gonna do with the money you have? The extra money you have that have? The extra money you have that have? The extra money you have that you're not spending. you're not spending. you're not spending. >> This is a good point. >> This is a good point. >> This is a good point. >> And then that money you're investing. >> And then that money you're investing. >> And then that money you're investing. You're not going to just put that money You're not going to just put that money You're not going to just put that money in the bank and leave it as cash. You're in the bank and leave it as cash. You're in the bank and leave it as cash. You're going to invest it in something. going to invest it in something. going to invest it in something. >> I could invest it in assets. >> I could invest it in assets. >> I could invest it in assets. >> What's an asset? It's either productive >> What's an asset? It's either productive >> What's an asset? It's either productive or non-productive asset. If it's or non-productive asset. If it's or non-productive asset. If it's productive, it's employing someone. It's productive, it's employing someone. It's productive, it's employing someone. It's doing stuff. doing stuff. doing stuff. >> I could I could theoretically go buy the >> I could I could theoretically go buy the >> I could I could theoretically go buy the S&P 500. And when you buy the S&P 500, S&P 500. And when you buy the S&P 500, S&P 500. And when you buy the S&P 500, that money goes to individuals that are that money goes to individuals that are that money goes to individuals that are now going to be able to employ more now going to be able to employ more now going to be able to employ more people. That capital finds a way to get people. That capital finds a way to get people. That capital finds a way to get spent. It goes into the economy. And spent. It goes into the economy. And spent. It goes into the economy. And that's my point. This is why economies that's my point. This is why economies that's my point. This is why economies grow when technology shows up. The grow when technology shows up. The grow when technology shows up. The leverage you got gave you more capital. leverage you got gave you more capital. leverage you got gave you more capital. You could either build a new product and You could either build a new product and You could either build a new product and hire more people to do it here or you hire more people to do it here or you hire more people to do it here or you could choose to go buy the S&P. But when could choose to go buy the S&P. But when could choose to go buy the S&P. But when you buy the S&P, that money ends up in you buy the S&P, that money ends up in you buy the S&P, that money ends up in other people's coffers, and they're other people's coffers, and they're other people's coffers, and they're using that money to hire people and do using that money to hire people and do using that money to hire people and do new stuff. there. At some point, the new stuff. there. At some point, the new stuff. there. At some point, the whole point of the economy is that money whole point of the economy is that money whole point of the economy is that money flows and that money is going to flows and that money is going to flows and that money is going to ultimately flow into individuals that ultimately flow into individuals that ultimately flow into individuals that are productive.

are productive. are productive. >> Do you not think a lot of it's going to >> Do you not think a lot of it's going to >> Do you not think a lot of it's going to flow disproportionately into the flow disproportionately into the flow disproportionately into the billionaires and the the most wealthy billionaires and the the most wealthy billionaires and the the most wealthy that are building the robots and that that are building the robots and that that are building the robots and that are are are >> I am a huge advocate for open source for >> I am a huge advocate for open source for >> I am a huge advocate for open source for this reason. this reason. this reason. >> Open source. What does that mean for >> Open source. What does that mean for >> Open source. What does that mean for Janet and Dave who might not know what Janet and Dave who might not know what Janet and Dave who might not know what that term means? that term means? that term means? >> So open source just means that the >> So open source just means that the >> So open source just means that the software is free for anyone to use. If software is free for anyone to use. If software is free for anyone to use. If you go back to the early days of the you go back to the early days of the you go back to the early days of the internet, Netscape made server software internet, Netscape made server software internet, Netscape made server software >> and Netscape [clears throat] made a >> and Netscape [clears throat] made a >> and Netscape [clears throat] made a browser. So in order to produce a browser. So in order to produce a browser. So in order to produce a website, you needed to pay for Netscape website, you needed to pay for Netscape website, you needed to pay for Netscape software and you installed it on a software and you installed it on a software and you installed it on a server and you pay Netscape a fee for server and you pay Netscape a fee for server and you pay Netscape a fee for that software and then you could create that software and then you could create that software and then you could create a website. Okay? And then if you want to a website. Okay? And then if you want to a website. Okay? And then if you want to browse the internet, you got to pay for browse the internet, you got to pay for browse the internet, you got to pay for Netscape Navigator and then you use that Netscape Navigator and then you use that Netscape Navigator and then you use that navigator to browse the internet. So navigator to browse the internet. So navigator to browse the internet. So charge charge gatekeeper gatekeeper and charge charge gatekeeper gatekeeper and charge charge gatekeeper gatekeeper and guess what came along? The Mozilla guess what came along? The Mozilla guess what came along? The Mozilla Foundation made an open-source browser Foundation made an open-source browser Foundation made an open-source browser called Firefox. And the Apache called Firefox. And the Apache called Firefox. And the Apache Foundation came along and made an open- Foundation came along and made an open- Foundation came along and made an open- source web server. And now anyone could source web server. And now anyone could source web server. And now anyone could download Apache and make their own download Apache and make their own download Apache and make their own website and plug it into the internet website and plug it into the internet website and plug it into the internet and it would be available to everyone in and it would be available to everyone in and it would be available to everyone in the world for free. And anyone could the world for free. And anyone could the world for free. And anyone could download Firefox, go on their computer download Firefox, go on their computer download Firefox, go on their computer and browse the internet for free. Open and browse the internet for free. Open and browse the internet for free. Open source then enabled all the source then enabled all the source then enabled all the entrepreneurs that built websites that entrepreneurs that built websites that entrepreneurs that built websites that made money to proliferate. They weren't made money to proliferate. They weren't made money to proliferate. They weren't gatekept in the idea of AI openw weight gatekept in the idea of AI openw weight gatekept in the idea of AI openw weight models, open- source models are free. So models, open- source models are free. So models, open- source models are free. So now you don't have to go pay anthropic now you don't have to go pay anthropic now you don't have to go pay anthropic or claude or Gemini or chat GPT for AI.

or claude or Gemini or chat GPT for AI. or claude or Gemini or chat GPT for AI. You can actually use this AI model for You can actually use this AI model for You can actually use this AI model for free and no one's making money off of free and no one's making money off of free and no one's making money off of you using it. There's no one getting you using it. There's no one getting you using it. There's no one getting paid. The only cost is the cost of paid. The only cost is the cost of paid. The only cost is the cost of finding a computer to run that model. So finding a computer to run that model. So finding a computer to run that model. So you could have your own computer, you you could have your own computer, you you could have your own computer, you could rent one, but that cost is coming could rent one, but that cost is coming could rent one, but that cost is coming down like crazy now, too. So this is the down like crazy now, too. So this is the down like crazy now, too. So this is the benefit of like this is why technology benefit of like this is why technology benefit of like this is why technology without government intervention is so without government intervention is so without government intervention is so amazing. It always gets cheaper and then amazing. It always gets cheaper and then amazing. It always gets cheaper and then everyone benefits. everyone benefits. everyone benefits. >> There could be a risk. Is that one of >> There could be a risk. Is that one of >> There could be a risk. Is that one of the key arguments of the open source the key arguments of the open source the key arguments of the open source idea which is if anybody can download idea which is if anybody can download idea which is if anybody can download these AIs onto their computer they can these AIs onto their computer they can these AIs onto their computer they can jailbreak them. They can use them as jailbreak them. They can use them as jailbreak them. They can use them as >> so there's two things that people are >> so there's two things that people are >> so there's two things that people are fighting about. Number one government fighting about. Number one government fighting about. Number one government people are saying hey that's coming from people are saying hey that's coming from people are saying hey that's coming from China. We don't know if there's back China. We don't know if there's back China. We don't know if there's back doors. That's not how openweight models doors. That's not how openweight models doors. That's not how openweight models work by the way. So people that are work by the way. So people that are work by the way. So people that are technically deficient don't fully grock technically deficient don't fully grock technically deficient don't fully grock what the openweight model really is. what the openweight model really is. what the openweight model really is. It's not like some backdoor program that It's not like some backdoor program that It's not like some backdoor program that you're running. It's literally just a you're running. It's literally just a you're running. It's literally just a list of numbers in a in a in a docu. list of numbers in a in a in a docu. list of numbers in a in a in a docu. It's just, you know, trillions of It's just, you know, trillions of It's just, you know, trillions of numbers. That's all it is. And then some numbers. That's all it is. And then some numbers. That's all it is. And then some people are arguing like, okay, so now people are arguing like, okay, so now people are arguing like, okay, so now that AI is everywhere, everyone has that AI is everywhere, everyone has that AI is everywhere, everyone has access to it. You can use it to design a access to it. You can use it to design a access to it. You can use it to design a cyber weapon. You can use it to design a cyber weapon. You can use it to design a cyber weapon. You can use it to design a bioweapon. You can use it to design a bioweapon. You can use it to design a bioweapon. You can use it to design a physical weapon. There's all these physical weapon. There's all these physical weapon. There's all these things that you can now do. You know, things that you can now do. You know, things that you can now do. You know, the same is true with DNA printing and the same is true with DNA printing and the same is true with DNA printing and DNA sequencing. Everyone can buy a DNA DNA sequencing. Everyone can buy a DNA DNA sequencing. Everyone can buy a DNA sequencer and a DNA printer and they sequencer and a DNA printer and they sequencer and a DNA printer and they could theoretically make a virus. That could theoretically make a virus. That could theoretically make a virus. That exists today. We haven't stopped DNA exists today. We haven't stopped DNA exists today. We haven't stopped DNA sequencing. We haven't stopped DNA sequencing. We haven't stopped DNA sequencing. We haven't stopped DNA printing. We don't have like constraints printing. We don't have like constraints printing. We don't have like constraints around it. Similarly, we haven't stopped around it. Similarly, we haven't stopped around it. Similarly, we haven't stopped people from buying guns. We haven't people from buying guns. We haven't people from buying guns. We haven't stopped people, you know, in the US. I stopped people, you know, in the US. I stopped people, you know, in the US. I mean, we can roll our eyes at this one.

mean, we can roll our eyes at this one. mean, we can roll our eyes at this one. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> That's a good one, >> That's a good one, >> That's a good one, >> right? Yeah. But but I mean look there >> right? Yeah. But but I mean look there >> right? Yeah. But but I mean look there there's a very good argument to be made there's a very good argument to be made there's a very good argument to be made that you could um say that any sort of that you could um say that any sort of that you could um say that any sort of technology that theoretically could be technology that theoretically could be technology that theoretically could be used to cause harm should be banned and used to cause harm should be banned and used to cause harm should be banned and or the government should control it and or the government should control it and or the government should control it and decide who gets access to it. And the decide who gets access to it. And the decide who gets access to it. And the flip side is that if it's allowed to flip side is that if it's allowed to flip side is that if it's allowed to proliferate there's far more benefit proliferate there's far more benefit proliferate there's far more benefit than risk and the risk side needs to be than risk and the risk side needs to be than risk and the risk side needs to be mitigated and that's where you build mitigated and that's where you build mitigated and that's where you build good defense systems and so on. So we've good defense systems and so on. So we've good defense systems and so on. So we've got all these technologies for got all these technologies for got all these technologies for monitoring, for cyber defense, for bio monitoring, for cyber defense, for bio monitoring, for cyber defense, for bio defense and all these sorts of things defense and all these sorts of things defense and all these sorts of things that are critical for you know that are critical for you know that are critical for you know especially in a post AI era like what especially in a post AI era like what especially in a post AI era like what are the big attack vectors so I think are the big attack vectors so I think are the big attack vectors so I think that's probably the way to think about that's probably the way to think about that's probably the way to think about this this this >> and that might help the sort of >> and that might help the sort of >> and that might help the sort of inevitable inequality golden goosees all inevitable inequality golden goosees all inevitable inequality golden goosees all collecting into insight. I I will bet collecting into insight. I I will bet collecting into insight. I I will bet you anything that in the next 10 years you anything that in the next 10 years you anything that in the next 10 years there will be a billionaire that will there will be a billionaire that will there will be a billionaire that will emerge that has absolutely zero net emerge that has absolutely zero net emerge that has absolutely zero net worth today downloaded open sourced AI worth today downloaded open sourced AI worth today downloaded open sourced AI and built a company that made them a and built a company that made them a and built a company that made them a billionaire 5 years from now 7 years billionaire 5 years from now 7 years billionaire 5 years from now 7 years from now and they're going to be someone from now and they're going to be someone from now and they're going to be someone that's going to come from nowhere and that's going to come from nowhere and that's going to come from nowhere and everyone's going to be like wow look at everyone's going to be like wow look at everyone's going to be like wow look at that and there's going to be a lot of that and there's going to be a lot of that and there's going to be a lot of these sorts of stories and that's what these sorts of stories and that's what these sorts of stories and that's what we saw with the internet we saw with the internet we saw with the internet >> this is something that I've made for you >> this is something that I've made for you >> this is something that I've made for you I realized that the diio audience are I realized that the diio audience are I realized that the diio audience are strivvers whether it's in business or strivvers whether it's in business or strivvers whether it's in business or health We all have big goals that we health We all have big goals that we health We all have big goals that we want to accomplish. And one of the want to accomplish. And one of the want to accomplish. And one of the things I've learned is that when you aim things I've learned is that when you aim things I've learned is that when you aim at the big big big goal, it can feel at the big big big goal, it can feel at the big big big goal, it can feel incredibly psychologically uncomfortable incredibly psychologically uncomfortable incredibly psychologically uncomfortable because it's kind of like being stood at because it's kind of like being stood at because it's kind of like being stood at the foot of Mount Everest and looking the foot of Mount Everest and looking the foot of Mount Everest and looking upwards. The way to accomplish your upwards. The way to accomplish your upwards. The way to accomplish your goals is by breaking them down into tiny

goals is by breaking them down into tiny goals is by breaking them down into tiny small steps. And we call this in our small steps. And we call this in our small steps. And we call this in our team the 1%. And actually this team the 1%. And actually this team the 1%. And actually this philosophy is highly responsible for philosophy is highly responsible for philosophy is highly responsible for much of our success here. So, what we've much of our success here. So, what we've much of our success here. So, what we've done so that you at home can accomplish done so that you at home can accomplish done so that you at home can accomplish any big goal that you have is we've made any big goal that you have is we've made any big goal that you have is we've made these 1% diaries and we released these these 1% diaries and we released these these 1% diaries and we released these last year and they all sold out. So, I last year and they all sold out. So, I last year and they all sold out. So, I asked my team over and over again to asked my team over and over again to asked my team over and over again to bring the diaries back, but also to bring the diaries back, but also to bring the diaries back, but also to introduce some new colors and to make introduce some new colors and to make introduce some new colors and to make some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now some minor tweaks to the diary. So, now we have a better range for you. So, if we have a better range for you. So, if we have a better range for you. So, if you have a big goal in mind and you need you have a big goal in mind and you need you have a big goal in mind and you need a framework and a process and some a framework and a process and some a framework and a process and some motivation, then I highly recommend you motivation, then I highly recommend you motivation, then I highly recommend you get one of these diaries before they all get one of these diaries before they all get one of these diaries before they all sell out once again. And you can get sell out once again. And you can get sell out once again. And you can get yours at the diary.com. yours at the diary.com. yours at the diary.com. And if you want the link, the link is in And if you want the link, the link is in And if you want the link, the link is in the description below. There should be a the description below. There should be a the description below. There should be a button just down below here. And if it button just down below here. And if it button just down below here. And if it says subscribed, you're already says subscribed, you're already says subscribed, you're already subscribed. If it says subscriber, that subscribed. If it says subscriber, that subscribed. If it says subscriber, that means you're not yet. And if you're not means you're not yet. And if you're not means you're not yet. And if you're not subscribed, please could you do us a subscribed, please could you do us a subscribed, please could you do us a favor and hit that button? It helps the favor and hit that button? It helps the favor and hit that button? It helps the show more than you know. And according show more than you know. And according show more than you know. And according to the algorithm, you're someone that to the algorithm, you're someone that to the algorithm, you're someone that watches our show, but you haven't yet watches our show, but you haven't yet watches our show, but you haven't yet hit that button. Thank you so much. So, hit that button. Thank you so much. So, hit that button. Thank you so much. So, when Elon says that working will be a when Elon says that working will be a when Elon says that working will be a choice, you think he's wrong.

choice, you think he's wrong. choice, you think he's wrong. >> He's selling robots, but uh [laughter] >> He's selling robots, but uh [laughter] >> He's selling robots, but uh [laughter] like like like um I do think he's right in a sense. And um I do think he's right in a sense. And um I do think he's right in a sense. And what I mean by that is like think about what I mean by that is like think about what I mean by that is like think about how many hours a week you work. Do you how many hours a week you work. Do you how many hours a week you work. Do you have a sense? have a sense? have a sense? >> Just I work all the time when my fiance >> Just I work all the time when my fiance >> Just I work all the time when my fiance is not around cuz she's not around at is not around cuz she's not around at is not around cuz she's not around at the moment. the moment. the moment. >> You and I are similar in the sense. So >> You and I are similar in the sense. So >> You and I are similar in the sense. So like like every moment I can I work. But like like every moment I can I work. But like like every moment I can I work. But like we're more entrepreneurial. I would like we're more entrepreneurial. I would like we're more entrepreneurial. I would say that like um you know look at say that like um you know look at say that like um you know look at Denmark for example 37 hours a week. Denmark for example 37 hours a week. Denmark for example 37 hours a week. What was the average number of hours What was the average number of hours What was the average number of hours worked 50 years ago, 60 years ago, 100 worked 50 years ago, 60 years ago, 100 worked 50 years ago, 60 years ago, 100 years ago in the US when you did farm years ago in the US when you did farm years ago in the US when you did farm labor and you were managing your own labor and you were managing your own labor and you were managing your own farm and that was your whole business or farm and that was your whole business or farm and that was your whole business or you worked in a factory. I mean there you worked in a factory. I mean there you worked in a factory. I mean there was 12-hour shifts. There was a lot more was 12-hour shifts. There was a lot more was 12-hour shifts. There was a lot more work per week being done. Going from 100 work per week being done. Going from 100 work per week being done. Going from 100 hours a week to 80 to 60 to 40. I mean, hours a week to 80 to 60 to 40. I mean, hours a week to 80 to 60 to 40. I mean, that is part of the progress of humanity that is part of the progress of humanity that is part of the progress of humanity is that we're no longer encumbered by is that we're no longer encumbered by is that we're no longer encumbered by this labor category, being told what to this labor category, being told what to this labor category, being told what to do and how to do it and when to do it in do and how to do it and when to do it in do and how to do it and when to do it in order to get money to pay our bills. But order to get money to pay our bills. But order to get money to pay our bills. But we get to this world where we have more we get to this world where we have more we get to this world where we have more capital. That capital is also time. And capital. That capital is also time. And capital. That capital is also time. And I've now accumulated the ability to make I've now accumulated the ability to make I've now accumulated the ability to make a choice on what do I do with 40 hours a choice on what do I do with 40 hours a choice on what do I do with 40 hours of my uh my week.

of my uh my week. of my uh my week. >> You know, we all have a hypothesis about >> You know, we all have a hypothesis about >> You know, we all have a hypothesis about how AI is going to play out. And I've how AI is going to play out. And I've how AI is going to play out. And I've heard many different hypotheses here. heard many different hypotheses here. heard many different hypotheses here. Which is the the part of your hypothesis Which is the the part of your hypothesis Which is the the part of your hypothesis like the principle within it that could like the principle within it that could like the principle within it that could quite easily be be a miscalculation and quite easily be be a miscalculation and quite easily be be a miscalculation and how could you be wrong? how could you be wrong? how could you be wrong? >> Mass unemployment. >> Mass unemployment. >> Mass unemployment. >> But but but where in your hypo your >> But but but where in your hypo your >> But but but where in your hypo your current hypothesis would you have been current hypothesis would you have been current hypothesis would you have been do you think is the weakest part of your do you think is the weakest part of your do you think is the weakest part of your sort of first principles that could sort of first principles that could sort of first principles that could result in that? result in that? result in that? >> The choice that people will make to go >> The choice that people will make to go >> The choice that people will make to go to higher paying jobs to different jobs to higher paying jobs to different jobs to higher paying jobs to different jobs that they see an opportunity and they that they see an opportunity and they that they see an opportunity and they make a choice to change cuz I think that make a choice to change cuz I think that make a choice to change cuz I think that that's the key to this whole thing. Like that's the key to this whole thing. Like that's the key to this whole thing. Like if you were a a taxi driver in New York if you were a a taxi driver in New York if you were a a taxi driver in New York and you were paying rent on a medallion. and you were paying rent on a medallion. and you were paying rent on a medallion. >> What's a medallion? >> What's a medallion? >> What's a medallion? >> So medallion is a a right to drive a cab >> So medallion is a a right to drive a cab >> So medallion is a a right to drive a cab in New York. in New York. in New York. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So there was a limited number of them >> So there was a limited number of them >> So there was a limited number of them and so the medallions were restricted. and so the medallions were restricted. and so the medallions were restricted. The New York City said we'll only allow The New York City said we'll only allow The New York City said we'll only allow so many cabs on the streets. So the so many cabs on the streets. So the so many cabs on the streets. So the price of medallions went up and up and price of medallions went up and up and price of medallions went up and up and up. So then New York cab drivers would up. So then New York cab drivers would up. So then New York cab drivers would trade the medallions and the price on trade the medallions and the price on trade the medallions and the price on medallions got up to 500 grand. And medallions got up to 500 grand. And medallions got up to 500 grand. And Cityroup was a big lender on medallions. Cityroup was a big lender on medallions. Cityroup was a big lender on medallions. So they would loan you 500 grand to go So they would loan you 500 grand to go So they would loan you 500 grand to go buy a medallion. Then Uber came along buy a medallion. Then Uber came along buy a medallion. Then Uber came along and this was one of the big battles and this was one of the big battles and this was one of the big battles around Uber at the time. You could get around Uber at the time. You could get around Uber at the time. You could get paid more and there's more rides with paid more and there's more rides with paid more and there's more rides with Uber. Uber grew the number of people Uber. Uber grew the number of people Uber. Uber grew the number of people taking car transportation around New taking car transportation around New taking car transportation around New York considerably. And when Uber demand York considerably. And when Uber demand York considerably. And when Uber demand shot up, a lot of these guys said, "I'm shot up, a lot of these guys said, "I'm shot up, a lot of these guys said, "I'm not going to be a cab driver anymore.

not going to be a cab driver anymore. not going to be a cab driver anymore. I'm going to be an Uber driver. I can I'm going to be an Uber driver. I can I'm going to be an Uber driver. I can make more money as an Uber driver." And make more money as an Uber driver." And make more money as an Uber driver." And the number of Uber drivers grew. And the number of Uber drivers grew. And the number of Uber drivers grew. And look, there's a lot of regulation that's look, there's a lot of regulation that's look, there's a lot of regulation that's happened in New York since then with happened in New York since then with happened in New York since then with respect to Uber and whatnot. But respect to Uber and whatnot. But respect to Uber and whatnot. But everyone made the choice. They moved. everyone made the choice. They moved. everyone made the choice. They moved. They found the market found its way. They found the market found its way. They found the market found its way. Individuals said, "Oh my god, I can make Individuals said, "Oh my god, I can make Individuals said, "Oh my god, I can make more money doing that. I could pick my more money doing that. I could pick my more money doing that. I could pick my own hours. I don't have to rent the own hours. I don't have to rent the own hours. I don't have to rent the medallion." medallion." medallion." >> It's a very similar sidestep. >> It's a very similar sidestep. >> It's a very similar sidestep. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And going from being a taxi driver to a >> And going from being a taxi driver to a >> And going from being a taxi driver to a taxi driver for a different firm using taxi driver for a different firm using taxi driver for a different firm using an app is is quite a is an app is is quite a is an app is is quite a is >> like so so I could sit here and >> like so so I could sit here and >> like so so I could sit here and pontificate all day with you on this and pontificate all day with you on this and pontificate all day with you on this and we we'd both be wrong, I'm sure, cuz I we we'd both be wrong, I'm sure, cuz I we we'd both be wrong, I'm sure, cuz I don't know what the the leap is going to don't know what the the leap is going to don't know what the the leap is going to be for an individual. I think we have to be for an individual. I think we have to be for an individual. I think we have to start to pull these stories out of the start to pull these stories out of the start to pull these stories out of the economy. What's going on? Palanteer put economy. What's going on? Palanteer put economy. What's going on? Palanteer put out this promotional video which I out this promotional video which I out this promotional video which I thought was quite good where they thought was quite good where they thought was quite good where they interviewed like a hospital interviewed like a hospital interviewed like a hospital administrator and she's like, "Well, administrator and she's like, "Well, administrator and she's like, "Well, I've got the AI doing all my paperwork I've got the AI doing all my paperwork I've got the AI doing all my paperwork so I get to spend more time with so I get to spend more time with so I get to spend more time with patients now." Sorry, it was a nurse, patients now." Sorry, it was a nurse, patients now." Sorry, it was a nurse, not an administrator. She was a nurse. not an administrator. She was a nurse. not an administrator. She was a nurse. So, she's like, "I normally spend like So, she's like, "I normally spend like So, she's like, "I normally spend like most of my time filling out paperwork on most of my time filling out paperwork on most of my time filling out paperwork on the computer, but Palanteer, the the computer, but Palanteer, the the computer, but Palanteer, the software takes care of all that for me. software takes care of all that for me. software takes care of all that for me. So, now I can spend more time doing So, now I can spend more time doing So, now I can spend more time doing rounds face to face with patients. It's rounds face to face with patients. It's rounds face to face with patients. It's a better job a better job a better job >> and it's better for her." And so she, >> and it's better for her." And so she, >> and it's better for her." And so she, you know, I think it it was a very you know, I think it it was a very you know, I think it it was a very poignant story about kind of what AI poignant story about kind of what AI poignant story about kind of what AI actually does on the ground. So, you actually does on the ground. So, you actually does on the ground. So, you know, look, I mean, I think there's a know, look, I mean, I think there's a know, look, I mean, I think there's a lot of these sorts of examples. We could lot of these sorts of examples. We could lot of these sorts of examples. We could we could counterargue back and forth we could counterargue back and forth we could counterargue back and forth about them all day long and probably about them all day long and probably about them all day long and probably both be wrong, but this is what I would both be wrong, but this is what I would both be wrong, but this is what I would kind of observe on the ground and what's kind of observe on the ground and what's kind of observe on the ground and what's actually happening.

actually happening. actually happening. >> I think we agree on the fact that jobs >> I think we agree on the fact that jobs >> I think we agree on the fact that jobs are going to get more human in every are going to get more human in every are going to get more human in every sense of the word. That was your yoga sense of the word. That was your yoga sense of the word. That was your yoga teacher example. That was the nurse that teacher example. That was the nurse that teacher example. That was the nurse that can spend more time with her patients can spend more time with her patients can spend more time with her patients and actually that will become even more and actually that will become even more and actually that will become even more valuable. It'll become more scarce. I valuable. It'll become more scarce. I valuable. It'll become more scarce. I think my my concerns still or the gap think my my concerns still or the gap think my my concerns still or the gap that I have in my head is like that how that I have in my head is like that how that I have in my head is like that how that transition looks especially at that transition looks especially at that transition looks especially at speed retraining you know you talked speed retraining you know you talked speed retraining you know you talked about the human agency point and do about the human agency point and do about the human agency point and do should we be preparing for such a should we be preparing for such a should we be preparing for such a transition cuz I do also believe that transition cuz I do also believe that transition cuz I do also believe that we'll we'll get to a providing there's we'll we'll get to a providing there's we'll we'll get to a providing there's no existential issues I do think we'll no existential issues I do think we'll no existential issues I do think we'll net out in a better place net out in a better place net out in a better place >> but the journey to that better place I >> but the journey to that better place I >> but the journey to that better place I still is just this big question mark still is just this big question mark still is just this big question mark >> I think that's right and I'm not trying >> I think that's right and I'm not trying >> I think that's right and I'm not trying to defend it and say it's going to be a to defend it and say it's going to be a to defend it and say it's going to be a clean smooth line I'm just trying to say clean smooth line I'm just trying to say clean smooth line I'm just trying to say like we are going to get to a better like we are going to get to a better like we are going to get to a better place you know we could argue all day place you know we could argue all day place you know we could argue all day long about displacement or dysfunction long about displacement or dysfunction long about displacement or dysfunction along the way. [gasps] along the way. [gasps] along the way. [gasps] Or maybe a lot of people are smiling as Or maybe a lot of people are smiling as Or maybe a lot of people are smiling as they jump to new jobs and try new stuff they jump to new jobs and try new stuff they jump to new jobs and try new stuff out and they're like, "Oh my god, my out and they're like, "Oh my god, my out and they're like, "Oh my god, my life's better." I'm optimistic in that life's better." I'm optimistic in that life's better." I'm optimistic in that sense. I think you're right. We have to sense. I think you're right. We have to sense. I think you're right. We have to track it. And if people are out of work track it. And if people are out of work track it. And if people are out of work and can't find work and they're and can't find work and they're and can't find work and they're challenged in paying their bills, we challenged in paying their bills, we challenged in paying their bills, we have a freaking problem. have a freaking problem. have a freaking problem. >> And what's the solution to that problem? >> And what's the solution to that problem? >> And what's the solution to that problem? Is it UBI? Is it UBI? Is it UBI? >> Well, it's going to be socialism.

>> Well, it's going to be socialism. >> Well, it's going to be socialism. >> So, in that in that messy middle, you >> So, in that in that messy middle, you >> So, in that in that messy middle, you think we'll adopt socialism if that think we'll adopt socialism if that think we'll adopt socialism if that messy middle does occur? messy middle does occur? messy middle does occur? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And what does that look like in reality? >> And what does that look like in reality? >> And what does that look like in reality? Is it just giving money and free food? Is it just giving money and free food? Is it just giving money and free food? And I saw the Mundan grocery stores. And I saw the Mundan grocery stores. And I saw the Mundan grocery stores. >> Well, that's not going to work, but >> Well, that's not going to work, but >> Well, that's not going to work, but that'll take time to not work. But in that'll take time to not work. But in that'll take time to not work. But in the meantime, it'll look great. But the meantime, it'll look great. But the meantime, it'll look great. But yeah, it'll be more more checks, more yeah, it'll be more more checks, more yeah, it'll be more more checks, more government employ. It's like the government employ. It's like the government employ. It's like the government creates jobs to pay people. government creates jobs to pay people. government creates jobs to pay people. They're not productive jobs. Meaning, if They're not productive jobs. Meaning, if They're not productive jobs. Meaning, if you get paid $100, do you create $120 of you get paid $100, do you create $120 of you get paid $100, do you create $120 of value? No, you're getting paid $100, value? No, you're getting paid $100, value? No, you're getting paid $100, maybe you're creating $60 or $80 of maybe you're creating $60 or $80 of maybe you're creating $60 or $80 of value. But you know that's just there's value. But you know that's just there's value. But you know that's just there's going to be more government payments going to be more government payments going to be more government payments whether it takes the form of UBI whether it takes the form of UBI whether it takes the form of UBI government um uh jobs grow or some other government um uh jobs grow or some other government um uh jobs grow or some other sort of financial support. sort of financial support. sort of financial support. >> I mean that's the direction of travel at >> I mean that's the direction of travel at >> I mean that's the direction of travel at the moment. the moment. the moment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All directions point to more socialistic >> All directions point to more socialistic >> All directions point to more socialistic >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> America. How do you feel about that? >> America. How do you feel about that? >> America. How do you feel about that? >> I'm actually I don't want to lose my >> I'm actually I don't want to lose my >> I'm actually I don't want to lose my agency. I don't want to lose my agency. I don't want to lose my agency. I don't want to lose my capacity, my liberty, my freedom. And I capacity, my liberty, my freedom. And I capacity, my liberty, my freedom. And I feel sad for people that embrace it feel sad for people that embrace it feel sad for people that embrace it because I think that they don't realize because I think that they don't realize because I think that they don't realize that they're losing their freedom in that they're losing their freedom in that they're losing their freedom in that process too. I think they're losing that process too. I think they're losing that process too. I think they're losing their agency. But it's it's offering their agency. But it's it's offering their agency. But it's it's offering them a solution where there is them a solution where there is them a solution where there is >> there's no other solution being offered >> there's no other solution being offered >> there's no other solution being offered for them.

for them. for them. >> But they feel there's no other solution >> But they feel there's no other solution >> But they feel there's no other solution being offered. That's right. being offered. That's right. being offered. That's right. >> But is is also logical to say if we talk >> But is is also logical to say if we talk >> But is is also logical to say if we talk about incentives that billionaires want about incentives that billionaires want about incentives that billionaires want to stay billionaires and billionaires to stay billionaires and billionaires to stay billionaires and billionaires aren't actually that um philanthropic in aren't actually that um philanthropic in aren't actually that um philanthropic in as they claim to be. And actually what as they claim to be. And actually what as they claim to be. And actually what billionaires are protecting are their billionaires are protecting are their billionaires are protecting are their interests. They want to remain free. interests. They want to remain free. interests. They want to remain free. >> I had a call with Roana about this. >> I had a call with Roana about this. >> I had a call with Roana about this. >> Can you give context on who he is for a >> Can you give context on who he is for a >> Can you give context on who he is for a moment? Roan is a congressman from moment? Roan is a congressman from moment? Roan is a congressman from California who's been um he's he used to California who's been um he's he used to California who's been um he's he used to be a moderate Democrat and he's kind of be a moderate Democrat and he's kind of be a moderate Democrat and he's kind of pivoted to becoming a hard-left true pivoted to becoming a hard-left true pivoted to becoming a hard-left true socialist in Silicon Valley is his socialist in Silicon Valley is his socialist in Silicon Valley is his district. California 17. He was asking district. California 17. He was asking district. California 17. He was asking me why are people so outraged at my me why are people so outraged at my me why are people so outraged at my support for a wealth tax. support for a wealth tax. support for a wealth tax. >> He means billionaires being outraged. >> He means billionaires being outraged. >> He means billionaires being outraged. >> No, it's not billionaires. It's anyone >> No, it's not billionaires. It's anyone >> No, it's not billionaires. It's anyone that has built something and created that has built something and created that has built something and created value. value. value. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's just entrepreneurs, people that >> And it's just entrepreneurs, people that >> And it's just entrepreneurs, people that have had success. And he's like, I don't have had success. And he's like, I don't have had success. And he's like, I don't get it. it's just 5% or 2% a year or 1% get it. it's just 5% or 2% a year or 1% get it. it's just 5% or 2% a year or 1% a year. Like, why do people care? And a year. Like, why do people care? And a year. Like, why do people care? And I'm like, Ro, it's the first time in I'm like, Ro, it's the first time in I'm like, Ro, it's the first time in American history American history American history that you're talking about taking that you're talking about taking that you're talking about taking something from someone after they've something from someone after they've something from someone after they've paid their taxes and it's now their paid their taxes and it's now their paid their taxes and it's now their private property and the government gets private property and the government gets private property and the government gets to decide how much of their private to decide how much of their private to decide how much of their private property they get to keep. It doesn't property they get to keep. It doesn't property they get to keep. It doesn't matter that it's 1% or 5% or they'll be matter that it's 1% or 5% or they'll be matter that it's 1% or 5% or they'll be fine and Bernie Sanders like the fine and Bernie Sanders like the fine and Bernie Sanders like the billionaires will be fine. It's billionaires will be fine. It's billionaires will be fine. It's fundamental to private property rights.

fundamental to private property rights. fundamental to private property rights. It makes me feel like and and everyone It makes me feel like and and everyone It makes me feel like and and everyone can think about this. It's not just rich can think about this. It's not just rich can think about this. It's not just rich people. Anyone can think about what does people. Anyone can think about what does people. Anyone can think about what does it mean to list out everything you own it mean to list out everything you own it mean to list out everything you own and send it to the government every year and send it to the government every year and send it to the government every year and they decide what you get to keep. and they decide what you get to keep. and they decide what you get to keep. That's what it feels like to everyone. That's what it feels like to everyone. That's what it feels like to everyone. Also, financially, it doesn't solve a Also, financially, it doesn't solve a Also, financially, it doesn't solve a problem. And I'll just give you the problem. And I'll just give you the problem. And I'll just give you the statistics. Total net worth of people in statistics. Total net worth of people in statistics. Total net worth of people in the US is 183 trillion. the US is 183 trillion. the US is 183 trillion. Billionaires total net worth is 8 Billionaires total net worth is 8 Billionaires total net worth is 8 trillion. And even if you take it from trillion. And even if you take it from trillion. And even if you take it from billionaire down to 50 millionaire, so billionaire down to 50 millionaire, so billionaire down to 50 millionaire, so people that have 50 million or more, the people that have 50 million or more, the people that have 50 million or more, the total assets, the total net worth is 23 total assets, the total net worth is 23 total assets, the total net worth is 23 trillion. 160 trillion is everyone else. trillion. 160 trillion is everyone else. trillion. 160 trillion is everyone else. The problem is that the bottom 50% of The problem is that the bottom 50% of The problem is that the bottom 50% of Americans only have 6 trillion. Americans only have 6 trillion. Americans only have 6 trillion. And the middle, that kind of 50% up to And the middle, that kind of 50% up to And the middle, that kind of 50% up to the 50 millionaire, you know, they've the 50 millionaire, you know, they've the 50 millionaire, you know, they've got 160 trillion. That's where the net got 160 trillion. That's where the net got 160 trillion. That's where the net worth is in the United States. It's in worth is in the United States. It's in worth is in the United States. It's in that kind of population that people call that kind of population that people call that kind of population that people call boomers or Gen X or whatever, the bottom boomers or Gen X or whatever, the bottom boomers or Gen X or whatever, the bottom 50% have nothing. And so if you taxed a 50% have nothing. And so if you taxed a 50% have nothing. And so if you taxed a 100% of the billionaire's net worth, 100% of the billionaire's net worth, 100% of the billionaire's net worth, that's $8 trillion. That's one year of that's $8 trillion. That's one year of that's $8 trillion. That's one year of the government spending. One year. It the government spending. One year. It the government spending. One year. It doesn't stop fundamentally a wealth tax.

doesn't stop fundamentally a wealth tax. doesn't stop fundamentally a wealth tax. Doesn't actually solve a fiscal problem. Doesn't actually solve a fiscal problem. Doesn't actually solve a fiscal problem. It creates a system where you're like, It creates a system where you're like, It creates a system where you're like, everyone feels better about taking money everyone feels better about taking money everyone feels better about taking money from the billionaires. Are the from the billionaires. Are the from the billionaires. Are the billionaires paying their fair share of billionaires paying their fair share of billionaires paying their fair share of taxes? This is the politician's trick. taxes? This is the politician's trick. taxes? This is the politician's trick. The politician's trick is they say, "How The politician's trick is they say, "How The politician's trick is they say, "How much tax did you pay as a percent of much tax did you pay as a percent of much tax did you pay as a percent of your assets versus how much tax did you your assets versus how much tax did you your assets versus how much tax did you pay as a percent of your income?" Your pay as a percent of your income?" Your pay as a percent of your income?" Your income is when you sell stocks or when income is when you sell stocks or when income is when you sell stocks or when you make money for services you provide. you make money for services you provide. you make money for services you provide. And every year, if you're wealthy in the And every year, if you're wealthy in the And every year, if you're wealthy in the United States, in California, I pay 53% United States, in California, I pay 53% United States, in California, I pay 53% tax. I pay like 14% in California plus tax. I pay like 14% in California plus tax. I pay like 14% in California plus 39% federal. 39% federal. 39% federal. >> But you must try and avoid that. >> But you must try and avoid that. >> But you must try and avoid that. >> No, I just pay it. >> No, I just pay it. >> No, I just pay it. >> But But I mean, in terms of when I say >> But But I mean, in terms of when I say >> But But I mean, in terms of when I say avoid that, I mean you would rather take avoid that, I mean you would rather take avoid that, I mean you would rather take it like a capital gains tax, which is it like a capital gains tax, which is it like a capital gains tax, which is lower. California, there's no lower. California, there's no lower. California, there's no difference. difference. difference. >> Oh, there's no difference. >> Oh, there's no difference. >> Oh, there's no difference. >> Yeah. In California, capital gains or >> Yeah. In California, capital gains or >> Yeah. In California, capital gains or income is is the same, which by the way income is is the same, which by the way income is is the same, which by the way should be the case at the federal level should be the case at the federal level should be the case at the federal level if you want to solve this compounding if you want to solve this compounding if you want to solve this compounding problem. So, can we lower income tax in problem. So, can we lower income tax in problem. So, can we lower income tax in the United States and raise capital the United States and raise capital the United States and raise capital gains tax? Absolutely. Can we make gains tax? Absolutely. Can we make gains tax? Absolutely. Can we make income tax lower for people that are income tax lower for people that are income tax lower for people that are working for their money versus people working for their money versus people working for their money versus people that are earning gains on their capital that are earning gains on their capital that are earning gains on their capital assets? Absolutely. And we can solve the assets? Absolutely. And we can solve the assets? Absolutely. And we can solve the problem that way. But by taking their problem that way. But by taking their problem that way. But by taking their assets, even if you took a 100% of the assets, even if you took a 100% of the assets, even if you took a 100% of the billionaire's assets, that's one year of billionaire's assets, that's one year of billionaire's assets, that's one year of spending. it doesn't actually solve a spending. it doesn't actually solve a spending. it doesn't actually solve a fiscal problem. The tax rate is the fiscal problem. The tax rate is the fiscal problem. The tax rate is the fiscal problem.

fiscal problem. fiscal problem. >> So for these people, the 63% that are, >> So for these people, the 63% that are, >> So for these people, the 63% that are, you know, potentially championing you know, potentially championing you know, potentially championing socialism because they need a solution socialism because they need a solution socialism because they need a solution and it sounds like a solution. Make my and it sounds like a solution. Make my and it sounds like a solution. Make my bills cheaper. What they don't hear bills cheaper. What they don't hear bills cheaper. What they don't hear from, you know, other politicians is a from, you know, other politicians is a from, you know, other politicians is a better solution. And this one sounds better solution. And this one sounds better solution. And this one sounds great. great. great. >> This is what's crazy to me. I don't get >> This is what's crazy to me. I don't get >> This is what's crazy to me. I don't get why all the politicians are fighting why all the politicians are fighting why all the politicians are fighting against a wealth tax or for a wealth tax against a wealth tax or for a wealth tax against a wealth tax or for a wealth tax when there's like literally 15 other when there's like literally 15 other when there's like literally 15 other things you could do to make this better. things you could do to make this better. things you could do to make this better. Like this is crazy. make the capital Like this is crazy. make the capital Like this is crazy. make the capital gains and income tax the same, cut gains and income tax the same, cut gains and income tax the same, cut stupid spending at the federal level, stupid spending at the federal level, stupid spending at the federal level, and all of a sudden things become more and all of a sudden things become more and all of a sudden things become more affordable. People have more take-home affordable. People have more take-home affordable. People have more take-home pay, they can afford more stuff. pay, they can afford more stuff. pay, they can afford more stuff. >> But let's be honest, you're not going to >> But let's be honest, you're not going to >> But let's be honest, you're not going to be able to cut the the spending at the be able to cut the the spending at the be able to cut the the spending at the federal level. We they've tried that. federal level. We they've tried that. federal level. We they've tried that. And because of this four this whole And because of this four this whole And because of this four this whole thing we just talked about, the thing we just talked about, the thing we just talked about, the four-year election cycles, Elon went in, four-year election cycles, Elon went in, four-year election cycles, Elon went in, he tried to cut it, he bounced straight he tried to cut it, he bounced straight he tried to cut it, he bounced straight back out. back out. back out. >> Yeah. And I think that that to me was >> Yeah. And I think that that to me was >> Yeah. And I think that that to me was the most depressing piece cuz I was the most depressing piece cuz I was the most depressing piece cuz I was like, "Oh my god, Elon's going to go in, like, "Oh my god, Elon's going to go in, like, "Oh my god, Elon's going to go in, he's going to blow up spending. We're he's going to blow up spending. We're he's going to blow up spending. We're finally going to cut all the nonsense finally going to cut all the nonsense finally going to cut all the nonsense out of the spending. And if Elon can't, out of the spending. And if Elon can't, out of the spending. And if Elon can't, no human can." Yeah. no human can." Yeah. no human can." Yeah. >> And then I went and visited DC and I >> And then I went and visited DC and I >> And then I went and visited DC and I went to all these Congress meetings and went to all these Congress meetings and went to all these Congress meetings and sat with senators and I was like, oh my sat with senators and I was like, oh my sat with senators and I was like, oh my god, none of them want to cut it. Like god, none of them want to cut it. Like god, none of them want to cut it. Like they're all on board with it. This isn't they're all on board with it. This isn't they're all on board with it. This isn't even a party thing. This is [laughter] even a party thing. This is [laughter] even a party thing. This is [laughter] just like everyone's doing it. And I'm just like everyone's doing it. And I'm just like everyone's doing it. And I'm like, this is the system. This is how like, this is the system. This is how like, this is the system. This is how it's set up. Holy it's set up. Holy it's set up. Holy >> We we've had Brian um slightly change >> We we've had Brian um slightly change >> We we've had Brian um slightly change direction, but linked to AI. Um I know direction, but linked to AI. Um I know direction, but linked to AI. Um I know you you work in the life sciences. So I you you work in the life sciences. So I you you work in the life sciences. So I wanted to ask you, do you think we're wanted to ask you, do you think we're wanted to ask you, do you think we're going to be able to live forever soon or going to be able to live forever soon or going to be able to live forever soon or at least extend life significantly at least extend life significantly at least extend life significantly within the next couple of decades? I do within the next couple of decades? I do within the next couple of decades? I do and I think the reason is we've and I think the reason is we've and I think the reason is we've discovered the mechanism of aging which discovered the mechanism of aging which discovered the mechanism of aging which is the most fundamental of human is the most fundamental of human is the most fundamental of human diseases. We have 10 trillion cells in

diseases. We have 10 trillion cells in diseases. We have 10 trillion cells in our body. Every one of those cells has our body. Every one of those cells has our body. Every one of those cells has our a copy of our DNA in the nucleus of our a copy of our DNA in the nucleus of our a copy of our DNA in the nucleus of the cell. That DNA segments of it are the cell. That DNA segments of it are the cell. That DNA segments of it are called a gene. AC and G make up the called a gene. AC and G make up the called a gene. AC and G make up the little nucleotides and you put a bunch little nucleotides and you put a bunch little nucleotides and you put a bunch of them together and that's a gene. What of them together and that's a gene. What of them together and that's a gene. What is a gene? Well, a copy of that comes is a gene? Well, a copy of that comes is a gene? Well, a copy of that comes over to a protein printer in the cell over to a protein printer in the cell over to a protein printer in the cell called the ribosome. And the act is the called the ribosome. And the act is the called the ribosome. And the act is the programming for which of 20 amino acids, programming for which of 20 amino acids, programming for which of 20 amino acids, three letters is one amino acid. That three letters is one amino acid. That three letters is one amino acid. That ribosome takes a segment of the DNA ribosome takes a segment of the DNA ribosome takes a segment of the DNA copied as RNA and it prints out amino copied as RNA and it prints out amino copied as RNA and it prints out amino acids and a sequence of amino acids from acids and a sequence of amino acids from acids and a sequence of amino acids from that gene which is defined by that gene that gene which is defined by that gene that gene which is defined by that gene makes a protein. So all a protein is is makes a protein. So all a protein is is makes a protein. So all a protein is is a is a chain of amino acids. As soon as a is a chain of amino acids. As soon as a is a chain of amino acids. As soon as it's done printing, those amino acids it's done printing, those amino acids it's done printing, those amino acids collapse into a threedimensional machine collapse into a threedimensional machine collapse into a threedimensional machine called a protein. called a protein. called a protein. >> So proteins are three-dimensional >> So proteins are three-dimensional >> So proteins are three-dimensional machines and they do crazy Like machines and they do crazy Like machines and they do crazy Like there is a protein in your mitochondria there is a protein in your mitochondria there is a protein in your mitochondria that spins 6,000 times a second as that spins 6,000 times a second as that spins 6,000 times a second as hydrogen protons go through it and hydrogen protons go through it and hydrogen protons go through it and that's what makes energy in your cells.

that's what makes energy in your cells. that's what makes energy in your cells. That's what makes ATP. It's literally That's what makes ATP. It's literally That's what makes ATP. It's literally like a propeller, like a turbine in your like a propeller, like a turbine in your like a propeller, like a turbine in your mitochondria in your cell. It's an mitochondria in your cell. It's an mitochondria in your cell. It's an incredible machine. There's machines incredible machine. There's machines incredible machine. There's machines that carry oxygen from your lungs into that carry oxygen from your lungs into that carry oxygen from your lungs into your cells in your body to give them your cells in your body to give them your cells in your body to give them oxygen that they need to work. I mean, oxygen that they need to work. I mean, oxygen that they need to work. I mean, there are proteins that do all sorts of there are proteins that do all sorts of there are proteins that do all sorts of crazy stuff. So, all that genes are are crazy stuff. So, all that genes are are crazy stuff. So, all that genes are are the programming for making proteins in the programming for making proteins in the programming for making proteins in your cell. Now, your DNA is not a strand your cell. Now, your DNA is not a strand your cell. Now, your DNA is not a strand like this. It's actually kind of a small like this. It's actually kind of a small like this. It's actually kind of a small clustered thing. And there are little clustered thing. And there are little clustered thing. And there are little molecules that sit on top of the DNA molecules that sit on top of the DNA molecules that sit on top of the DNA that turn a gene on or off. So if the that turn a gene on or off. So if the that turn a gene on or off. So if the molecule is sitting on top of a certain molecule is sitting on top of a certain molecule is sitting on top of a certain gene that gene is off gene that gene is off gene that gene is off >> like a little switch >> like a little switch >> like a little switch >> like a switch. >> like a switch. >> like a switch. >> What's it called? Someone used the name >> What's it called? Someone used the name >> What's it called? Someone used the name before. before. before. >> Histones. >> Histones. >> Histones. >> Histones. Okay. >> Histones. Okay. >> Histones. Okay. >> Or acetal markers. And >> Or acetal markers. And >> Or acetal markers. And >> I thought it's epigenetics. But maybe. >> I thought it's epigenetics. But maybe. >> I thought it's epigenetics. But maybe. >> So this is all epigenetics. Okay. >> So this is all epigenetics. Okay. >> So this is all epigenetics. Okay. >> So for a given cell there are genes that >> So for a given cell there are genes that >> So for a given cell there are genes that are on or off. The genes that are on are on or off. The genes that are on are on or off. The genes that are on those proteins are being made in that those proteins are being made in that those proteins are being made in that cell. And the genes that are off those cell. And the genes that are off those cell. And the genes that are off those proteins are not being made in that proteins are not being made in that proteins are not being made in that cell. And that's what makes all of our cell. And that's what makes all of our cell. And that's what makes all of our cells in our body different. Every one cells in our body different. Every one cells in our body different. Every one of our cells has the same DNA, but our of our cells has the same DNA, but our of our cells has the same DNA, but our eye cell and our brain cell and our eye cell and our brain cell and our eye cell and our brain cell and our heart cell and our skin cell just have heart cell and our skin cell just have heart cell and our skin cell just have different genes that are on or off.

different genes that are on or off. different genes that are on or off. Okay? So, those markers that sit on the Okay? So, those markers that sit on the Okay? So, those markers that sit on the genes, those little switches, every time genes, those little switches, every time genes, those little switches, every time you drink a glass of alcohol or you go you drink a glass of alcohol or you go you drink a glass of alcohol or you go in the sun and get hit by the sunlight in the sun and get hit by the sunlight in the sun and get hit by the sunlight or smoke a cigarette or eat some bad or smoke a cigarette or eat some bad or smoke a cigarette or eat some bad food that's burnt, all of these things food that's burnt, all of these things food that's burnt, all of these things can cut DNA. And when DNA gets cut, your can cut DNA. And when DNA gets cut, your can cut DNA. And when DNA gets cut, your cell is really good at fixing it. Puts cell is really good at fixing it. Puts cell is really good at fixing it. Puts it right back together. it right back together. it right back together. happening millions of times a second in happening millions of times a second in happening millions of times a second in your body, literally all over your body your body, literally all over your body your body, literally all over your body and your DNA is breaking and your cell's and your DNA is breaking and your cell's and your DNA is breaking and your cell's fixing it. But every time your cell fixing it. But every time your cell fixing it. But every time your cell fixes it, there's a chance that that fixes it, there's a chance that that fixes it, there's a chance that that switch moves a little bit. And if the switch moves a little bit. And if the switch moves a little bit. And if the switch moves to the wrong place, switch moves to the wrong place, switch moves to the wrong place, suddenly that cell starts making the suddenly that cell starts making the suddenly that cell starts making the wrong protein or stops making the right wrong protein or stops making the right wrong protein or stops making the right protein. So statistically over time when protein. So statistically over time when protein. So statistically over time when you're a baby, everything is tuned you're a baby, everything is tuned you're a baby, everything is tuned great, working right, all the right great, working right, all the right great, working right, all the right proteins are being made in every cell. proteins are being made in every cell. proteins are being made in every cell. You're young. Your skin is not wrinkly. You're young. Your skin is not wrinkly. You're young. Your skin is not wrinkly. You can run. You can breathe. You can You can run. You can breathe. You can You can run. You can breathe. You can see perfectly. As you're a young person, see perfectly. As you're a young person, see perfectly. As you're a young person, suddenly you turn 30 and you're like, suddenly you turn 30 and you're like, suddenly you turn 30 and you're like, "Wait, my vision's kind of fading a "Wait, my vision's kind of fading a "Wait, my vision's kind of fading a little bit. I can't run as fast. I can't little bit. I can't run as fast. I can't little bit. I can't run as fast. I can't breathe as deep. Oh my god, I'm getting breathe as deep. Oh my god, I'm getting breathe as deep. Oh my god, I'm getting wrinkles around my eyes." 40, 50. What wrinkles around my eyes." 40, 50. What wrinkles around my eyes." 40, 50. What happens as we get older is those happens as we get older is those happens as we get older is those switches kind of move around to the switches kind of move around to the switches kind of move around to the wrong places. And as those switches move wrong places. And as those switches move wrong places. And as those switches move around, that cell stops making the right around, that cell stops making the right around, that cell stops making the right protein protein protein and starts making the wrong protein and and starts making the wrong protein and and starts making the wrong protein and it becomes dysfunctional. And if that it becomes dysfunctional. And if that it becomes dysfunctional. And if that happens in enough cells, then that happens in enough cells, then that happens in enough cells, then that tissue starts to misbehave. You get tissue starts to misbehave. You get tissue starts to misbehave. You get wrinkles. Your heart can't beat quite wrinkles. Your heart can't beat quite wrinkles. Your heart can't beat quite right. Your retina doesn't pick up light right. Your retina doesn't pick up light right. Your retina doesn't pick up light as well and transmit the signal of the as well and transmit the signal of the as well and transmit the signal of the light and things get blurry. Your light and things get blurry. Your light and things get blurry. Your hearing starts to lose. You can't think

hearing starts to lose. You can't think hearing starts to lose. You can't think as quickly. You can't respond as as quickly. You can't respond as as quickly. You can't respond as quickly. That's what aging is. Aging is quickly. That's what aging is. Aging is quickly. That's what aging is. Aging is the core human disease. And as the core human disease. And as the core human disease. And as epigenetics, which is where the switches epigenetics, which is where the switches epigenetics, which is where the switches are on a cell, start to get moved around are on a cell, start to get moved around are on a cell, start to get moved around to the wrong place and that tissue to the wrong place and that tissue to the wrong place and that tissue starts to misbehave, we get all these starts to misbehave, we get all these starts to misbehave, we get all these diseases that could be one of the core diseases that could be one of the core diseases that could be one of the core drivers of cancer. drivers of cancer. drivers of cancer. >> Why is aging so even across my body? >> Why is aging so even across my body? >> Why is aging so even across my body? Then Then Then >> because all these cells are suffering >> because all these cells are suffering >> because all these cells are suffering the same statistical effect of time as the same statistical effect of time as the same statistical effect of time as DNA breaks happen in every cell in your DNA breaks happen in every cell in your DNA breaks happen in every cell in your body. And as those DNA breaks happen, body. And as those DNA breaks happen, body. And as those DNA breaks happen, those switches are moving around the those switches are moving around the those switches are moving around the same rate in all parts of your body. And same rate in all parts of your body. And same rate in all parts of your body. And that's why parts of your body start to that's why parts of your body start to that's why parts of your body start to suffer kind of a it's like, "Oh my god, suffer kind of a it's like, "Oh my god, suffer kind of a it's like, "Oh my god, my hip hurts, my eye, my brain." Your my hip hurts, my eye, my brain." Your my hip hurts, my eye, my brain." Your young viewers may not appreciate this, young viewers may not appreciate this, young viewers may not appreciate this, but being 46, I'm starting to appreciate but being 46, I'm starting to appreciate but being 46, I'm starting to appreciate it. And it's becoming more of an issue it. And it's becoming more of an issue it. And it's becoming more of an issue now. In 2006, a guy named Shinya now. In 2006, a guy named Shinya now. In 2006, a guy named Shinya Yamanaka Yamanaka Yamanaka discovered four proteins that you could discovered four proteins that you could discovered four proteins that you could put into a cell or apply to a cell and put into a cell or apply to a cell and put into a cell or apply to a cell and it would basically take all the switches it would basically take all the switches it would basically take all the switches in that cell and move them to the place in that cell and move them to the place in that cell and move them to the place that a stem cell has, which is basically that a stem cell has, which is basically that a stem cell has, which is basically an embryo in a human. And now that cell an embryo in a human. And now that cell an embryo in a human. And now that cell operates like an embryionic cell. And operates like an embryionic cell. And operates like an embryionic cell. And you can take that embryo cell and you you can take that embryo cell and you you can take that embryo cell and you can put other proteins on to move the can put other proteins on to move the can put other proteins on to move the switches around even more to turn that switches around even more to turn that switches around even more to turn that stem cell into an eye cell, into a skin stem cell into an eye cell, into a skin stem cell into an eye cell, into a skin cell, into a heart cell, into a lung cell, into a heart cell, into a lung cell, into a heart cell, into a lung cell, into a brain cell. So we suddenly cell, into a brain cell. So we suddenly cell, into a brain cell. So we suddenly developed this technology in the mid developed this technology in the mid developed this technology in the mid 2000s to take any cell and turn it into

2000s to take any cell and turn it into 2000s to take any cell and turn it into a stem cell, redifferiated, it's called a stem cell, redifferiated, it's called a stem cell, redifferiated, it's called differentiation from one cell type to differentiation from one cell type to differentiation from one cell type to another. But then years later, another another. But then years later, another another. But then years later, another guy said, "Well, what if instead of guy said, "Well, what if instead of guy said, "Well, what if instead of putting a lot of that protein on the putting a lot of that protein on the putting a lot of that protein on the cell, we just put a little bit?" So they cell, we just put a little bit?" So they cell, we just put a little bit?" So they took the Yamanaka factors, which are took the Yamanaka factors, which are took the Yamanaka factors, which are just four proteins, and they put a micro just four proteins, and they put a micro just four proteins, and they put a micro dose of them on a couple cells, and the dose of them on a couple cells, and the dose of them on a couple cells, and the switches started to move around, but switches started to move around, but switches started to move around, but they didn't move back to being a stem they didn't move back to being a stem they didn't move back to being a stem cell. What happened is they moved back cell. What happened is they moved back cell. What happened is they moved back to being a young version of that cell to being a young version of that cell to being a young version of that cell type. So the eye cell basically became a type. So the eye cell basically became a type. So the eye cell basically became a young eye cell. The skin cell became a young eye cell. The skin cell became a young eye cell. The skin cell became a young skin cell. the heart cell became a young skin cell. the heart cell became a young skin cell. the heart cell became a young heart cell by putting a small dose young heart cell by putting a small dose young heart cell by putting a small dose of these proteins. So it turns out that of these proteins. So it turns out that of these proteins. So it turns out that these proteins kind of move the switches these proteins kind of move the switches these proteins kind of move the switches around. And if you put just a small around. And if you put just a small around. And if you put just a small amount of them on, you can move the amount of them on, you can move the amount of them on, you can move the switches just back to their right switches just back to their right switches just back to their right position. That's now called epigenetic position. That's now called epigenetic position. That's now called epigenetic reprogramming. That's this new area of reprogramming. That's this new area of reprogramming. That's this new area of science that seems to indicate and science that seems to indicate and science that seems to indicate and they've now done it in mice where the they've now done it in mice where the they've now done it in mice where the mice can live to the equivalent of 100 mice can live to the equivalent of 100 mice can live to the equivalent of 100 plus years old. They've put it on the plus years old. They've put it on the plus years old. They've put it on the tissue of monkeys and gotten rid of the tissue of monkeys and gotten rid of the tissue of monkeys and gotten rid of the the wrinkles. We now have just David the wrinkles. We now have just David the wrinkles. We now have just David Sinclair just his one of his companies Sinclair just his one of his companies Sinclair just his one of his companies did the dosing in the retina to reverse did the dosing in the retina to reverse did the dosing in the retina to reverse blindness in people uh with a blindness in people uh with a blindness in people uh with a retinopathy. So this epigenetic retinopathy. So this epigenetic retinopathy. So this epigenetic reprogramming is an entirely new lane of reprogramming is an entirely new lane of reprogramming is an entirely new lane of medicine that says not just can we medicine that says not just can we medicine that says not just can we address all of the downstream effects of address all of the downstream effects of address all of the downstream effects of aging but can we go to the core? Can we aging but can we go to the core? Can we aging but can we go to the core? Can we reset aging in all these cells in the reset aging in all these cells in the reset aging in all these cells in the body? And the answer so far is yes. The body? And the answer so far is yes. The body? And the answer so far is yes. The risk is if you reset it too much it risk is if you reset it too much it risk is if you reset it too much it becomes an embryo and it turns into becomes an embryo and it turns into becomes an embryo and it turns into cancer. So that's what everyone's been cancer. So that's what everyone's been cancer. So that's what everyone's been working against in the last couple years

working against in the last couple years working against in the last couple years is how do you put the right dose of the is how do you put the right dose of the is how do you put the right dose of the right proteins in the right cells to get right proteins in the right cells to get right proteins in the right cells to get them to reverse their age and become them to reverse their age and become them to reverse their age and become young again. And the path it's really young again. And the path it's really young again. And the path it's really just an engineering exercise at this just an engineering exercise at this just an engineering exercise at this point as opposed to a biological proof point as opposed to a biological proof point as opposed to a biological proof of concept. The science is there, the of concept. The science is there, the of concept. The science is there, the foundation is there. We're just doing foundation is there. We're just doing foundation is there. We're just doing the engineering. So I am extremely the engineering. So I am extremely the engineering. So I am extremely excited and optimistic about this work. excited and optimistic about this work. excited and optimistic about this work. It seems very likely that in the next It seems very likely that in the next It seems very likely that in the next couple of years, we're going to have couple of years, we're going to have couple of years, we're going to have more human therapy trials that are going more human therapy trials that are going more human therapy trials that are going to not just address the core of aging, to not just address the core of aging, to not just address the core of aging, but they'll start to put in like, you but they'll start to put in like, you but they'll start to put in like, you know, like they did with the ISEL, maybe know, like they did with the ISEL, maybe know, like they did with the ISEL, maybe reverse wrinkles, maybe improve uh reverse wrinkles, maybe improve uh reverse wrinkles, maybe improve uh cardiammyio, improve the uh heart cardiammyio, improve the uh heart cardiammyio, improve the uh heart tissue. So, I think there'll be a lot tissue. So, I think there'll be a lot tissue. So, I think there'll be a lot more of this sort of thing coming to more of this sort of thing coming to more of this sort of thing coming to market over the next few years. market over the next few years. market over the next few years. >> And AI is going to play a role, I >> And AI is going to play a role, I >> And AI is going to play a role, I assume, in accelerating this because you assume, in accelerating this because you assume, in accelerating this because you can perform I mean, you can can perform I mean, you can can perform I mean, you can theoretically make new discoveries, but theoretically make new discoveries, but theoretically make new discoveries, but you can run the tests faster, right? you can run the tests faster, right? you can run the tests faster, right? >> You know, just to help >> You know, just to help >> You know, just to help uh provide some context on like what uh provide some context on like what uh provide some context on like what goes on in a cell. You can kind of think goes on in a cell. You can kind of think goes on in a cell. You can kind of think about a cell uh has about 10 billion about a cell uh has about 10 billion about a cell uh has about 10 billion proteins interacting with each other, proteins interacting with each other, proteins interacting with each other, building things, breaking things, building things, breaking things, building things, breaking things, creating new molecules, creating new creating new molecules, creating new creating new molecules, creating new proteins, interacting, interacting. So proteins, interacting, interacting. So proteins, interacting, interacting. So the proteins are these machines, 10 the proteins are these machines, 10 the proteins are these machines, 10 billion of them in a cell. So if you billion of them in a cell. So if you billion of them in a cell. So if you assume each protein is the size of a assume each protein is the size of a assume each protein is the size of a human, the cell would be the size of human, the cell would be the size of human, the cell would be the size of Manhattan. So now imagine a city the Manhattan. So now imagine a city the Manhattan. So now imagine a city the size of Manhattan with 500tory tall size of Manhattan with 500tory tall size of Manhattan with 500tory tall skyscrapers in the Manhattan skyline and skyscrapers in the Manhattan skyline and skyscrapers in the Manhattan skyline and 10 billion people living in these 10 billion people living in these 10 billion people living in these buildings going back and forth building buildings going back and forth building buildings going back and forth building stuff together talking making babies and stuff together talking making babies and stuff together talking making babies and assume they just do this for 80 years assume they just do this for 80 years assume they just do this for 80 years all these humans interacting 10 billion

all these humans interacting 10 billion all these humans interacting 10 billion humans in Manhattan for 80 years humans in Manhattan for 80 years humans in Manhattan for 80 years non-stop they don't sleep and they just non-stop they don't sleep and they just non-stop they don't sleep and they just keep working that entire set of keep working that entire set of keep working that entire set of interactions is 1 second in one cell interactions is 1 second in one cell interactions is 1 second in one cell that's how complicated biology is and we that's how complicated biology is and we that's how complicated biology is and we have 10 trillion cells in our body and have 10 trillion cells in our body and have 10 trillion cells in our body and those cells are all shooting out those cells are all shooting out those cells are all shooting out proteins and messages to each other all proteins and messages to each other all proteins and messages to each other all the time. To answer the question, AI the time. To answer the question, AI the time. To answer the question, AI allows us to build models to better allows us to build models to better allows us to build models to better understand what the heck is going on and understand what the heck is going on and understand what the heck is going on and to make predictions about proteins we to make predictions about proteins we to make predictions about proteins we could put into the cells that can affect could put into the cells that can affect could put into the cells that can affect the outcome of changing the epiggenome the outcome of changing the epiggenome the outcome of changing the epiggenome on that DNA without us having a on that DNA without us having a on that DNA without us having a deterministic understanding of what's deterministic understanding of what's deterministic understanding of what's going on. So with AI, I can come up with going on. So with AI, I can come up with going on. So with AI, I can come up with a million different ideas for a new a million different ideas for a new a million different ideas for a new protein. I can test it in silicone, how protein. I can test it in silicone, how protein. I can test it in silicone, how it would interact with other stuff, it would interact with other stuff, it would interact with other stuff, meaning on computers. I could see what meaning on computers. I could see what meaning on computers. I could see what happens. I could see if it actually has happens. I could see if it actually has happens. I could see if it actually has the same sort of effect as the other the same sort of effect as the other the same sort of effect as the other protein. Would it be more efficacious? protein. Would it be more efficacious? protein. Would it be more efficacious? And then I reduce my candidate list And then I reduce my candidate list And then I reduce my candidate list down. And I take that candidate list and down. And I take that candidate list and down. And I take that candidate list and I put it in a lab. And now the labs are I put it in a lab. And now the labs are I put it in a lab. And now the labs are being automated. And I can test it on being automated. And I can test it on being automated. And I can test it on cells and see if it's actually reversing cells and see if it's actually reversing cells and see if it's actually reversing aging. I can test it in models. And then aging. I can test it in models. And then aging. I can test it in models. And then I take that candidate and now I've got a I take that candidate and now I've got a I take that candidate and now I've got a probability of success in 10 years that probability of success in 10 years that probability of success in 10 years that instead of being 1% is now like 75%. And instead of being 1% is now like 75%. And instead of being 1% is now like 75%. And so [clears throat] that's the way AI so [clears throat] that's the way AI so [clears throat] that's the way AI plays a role in life sciences discovery plays a role in life sciences discovery plays a role in life sciences discovery and it's transforming not just and it's transforming not just and it's transforming not just epigenetic reprogramming which is this epigenetic reprogramming which is this epigenetic reprogramming which is this whole big avenue of medicine now but whole big avenue of medicine now but whole big avenue of medicine now but it's transforming every aspect of it's transforming every aspect of it's transforming every aspect of biology and our understanding of life biology and our understanding of life biology and our understanding of life sciences where we can use AI to make sciences where we can use AI to make sciences where we can use AI to make these simulations and have a better these simulations and have a better these simulations and have a better understanding of what these complicated understanding of what these complicated understanding of what these complicated incredibly immense interaction sets look incredibly immense interaction sets look incredibly immense interaction sets look like or drive at the end state versus me like or drive at the end state versus me like or drive at the end state versus me needing to kind of be a scientist being

needing to kind of be a scientist being needing to kind of be a scientist being like oh I got a good idea let's try that like oh I got a good idea let's try that like oh I got a good idea let's try that okay 5 weeks later okay another good okay 5 weeks later okay another good okay 5 weeks later okay another good idea let's try that and that all gets idea let's try that and that all gets idea let's try that and that all gets reduced to silicon reduced to silicon reduced to silicon >> and are you using your own model? Are >> and are you using your own model? Are >> and are you using your own model? Are you training your own AI or are you you training your own AI or are you you training your own AI or are you using some of the publicly available using some of the publicly available using some of the publicly available frontier models? frontier models? frontier models? >> In my world we use both. So we take our >> In my world we use both. So we take our >> In my world we use both. So we take our own data and then we build our own own data and then we build our own own data and then we build our own predictive models from it and then predictive models from it and then predictive models from it and then separately we use offtheshelf life separately we use offtheshelf life separately we use offtheshelf life sciences models and then we also use sciences models and then we also use sciences models and then we also use some of the general models. So it's a some of the general models. So it's a some of the general models. So it's a great combination. And to your questions great combination. And to your questions great combination. And to your questions and talking about AI earlier, oh my god, and talking about AI earlier, oh my god, and talking about AI earlier, oh my god, the stuff we can do is unbelievable and the stuff we can do is unbelievable and the stuff we can do is unbelievable and it's mind-blowing and we're hiring more it's mind-blowing and we're hiring more it's mind-blowing and we're hiring more people because of it. So like it's not people because of it. So like it's not people because of it. So like it's not like AI got me to get rid of jobs. It's like AI got me to get rid of jobs. It's like AI got me to get rid of jobs. It's like the frontier has gotten so much like the frontier has gotten so much like the frontier has gotten so much wider. That's why I'm so optimistic wider. That's why I'm so optimistic wider. That's why I'm so optimistic about AI not destroying jobs because all about AI not destroying jobs because all about AI not destroying jobs because all I see is opportunity with uh new I see is opportunity with uh new I see is opportunity with uh new companies, new ideas, new pathways, new companies, new ideas, new pathways, new companies, new ideas, new pathways, new things, new breakthroughs in in things, new breakthroughs in in things, new breakthroughs in in sciences, in materials, in engineering, sciences, in materials, in engineering, sciences, in materials, in engineering, things that we could have never ever things that we could have never ever things that we could have never ever tackled, we can now tackle with AI. tackled, we can now tackle with AI. tackled, we can now tackle with AI. >> It is a persuasive argument. Okay. So, >> It is a persuasive argument. Okay. So, >> It is a persuasive argument. Okay. So, what are the great lies in America in what are the great lies in America in what are the great lies in America in your view? your view? your view? If you go to any college with any If you go to any college with any If you go to any college with any degree, you're going to have a great job degree, you're going to have a great job degree, you're going to have a great job waiting for you at the end.

waiting for you at the end. waiting for you at the end. >> Okay? Number one, >> Okay? Number one, >> Okay? Number one, >> if you buy a home, you've achieved the >> if you buy a home, you've achieved the >> if you buy a home, you've achieved the American dream, and all of your assets American dream, and all of your assets American dream, and all of your assets should uh be in that home. should uh be in that home. should uh be in that home. >> Okay? [clears throat] >> Okay? [clears throat] >> Okay? [clears throat] >> Social security will take care of you >> Social security will take care of you >> Social security will take care of you when you get old and it's a fair system. when you get old and it's a fair system. when you get old and it's a fair system. Everyone should have ownership in stocks Everyone should have ownership in stocks Everyone should have ownership in stocks is the truth about that lie. uh because is the truth about that lie. uh because is the truth about that lie. uh because all the money that went into social all the money that went into social all the money that went into social security went out to the government to security went out to the government to security went out to the government to pay bills and it wasn't actually kept in pay bills and it wasn't actually kept in pay bills and it wasn't actually kept in the trust and so as a result social the trust and so as a result social the trust and so as a result social security is going to go bankrupt. So security is going to go bankrupt. So security is going to go bankrupt. So social security was one of the great social security was one of the great social security was one of the great lies on you know you'll be safe and lies on you know you'll be safe and lies on you know you'll be safe and protected when you retire. protected when you retire. protected when you retire. >> Mhm. Those are three great lies. Is >> Mhm. Those are three great lies. Is >> Mhm. Those are three great lies. Is there any more that come to mind? there any more that come to mind? there any more that come to mind? >> I don't know about public pensions and >> I don't know about public pensions and >> I don't know about public pensions and the it's the same as the social security the it's the same as the social security the it's the same as the social security lie. When you put money into a pension lie. When you put money into a pension lie. When you put money into a pension plan and you're that's called a defined plan and you're that's called a defined plan and you're that's called a defined benefit plan, when you retire, you're benefit plan, when you retire, you're benefit plan, when you retire, you're going to get $1,000 a week or whatever going to get $1,000 a week or whatever going to get $1,000 a week or whatever it is and every every paycheck some it is and every every paycheck some it is and every every paycheck some money is taken out. And the idea is that money is taken out. And the idea is that money is taken out. And the idea is that the accountants and the investors will the accountants and the investors will the accountants and the investors will do a good job investing that money for do a good job investing that money for do a good job investing that money for you and you'll get your benefit at the you and you'll get your benefit at the you and you'll get your benefit at the end. If they don't do a good job, then end. If they don't do a good job, then end. If they don't do a good job, then the pension plan is bankrupt and you the pension plan is bankrupt and you the pension plan is bankrupt and you don't get your retirement check. And if don't get your retirement check. And if don't get your retirement check. And if they do too good a job or you put too they do too good a job or you put too they do too good a job or you put too much money in, then the pension plan is much money in, then the pension plan is much money in, then the pension plan is overfunded and you should be getting overfunded and you should be getting overfunded and you should be getting more money out than you're actually more money out than you're actually more money out than you're actually getting. M. So what companies realized getting. M. So what companies realized getting. M. So what companies realized was that pension plans are unfair. They was that pension plans are unfair. They was that pension plans are unfair. They either go bankrupt or they're either go bankrupt or they're either go bankrupt or they're overfunded. So that's when everyone overfunded. So that's when everyone overfunded. So that's when everyone moved to 401ks. And that middle class moved to 401ks. And that middle class moved to 401ks. And that middle class that we talked about earlier, those that we talked about earlier, those that we talked about earlier, those people that have $160 trillion of people that have $160 trillion of people that have $160 trillion of assets, the reason they have $160 assets, the reason they have $160 assets, the reason they have $160 trillion of assets, it's because a lot

trillion of assets, it's because a lot trillion of assets, it's because a lot of them had 401ks. Meanwhile, the bottom of them had 401ks. Meanwhile, the bottom of them had 401ks. Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of people that are just relying on 50% of people that are just relying on 50% of people that are just relying on social security, they were making less social security, they were making less social security, they were making less than 3 and a half% a year on their than 3 and a half% a year on their than 3 and a half% a year on their money. So that's the great lie is that money. So that's the great lie is that money. So that's the great lie is that these defi these public retirement funds these defi these public retirement funds these defi these public retirement funds would take care of their people. would take care of their people. would take care of their people. >> Is there a fifth great lie that comes to >> Is there a fifth great lie that comes to >> Is there a fifth great lie that comes to mind? mind? mind? >> I actually don't have a great answer for >> I actually don't have a great answer for >> I actually don't have a great answer for you on healthcare. I think that there's you on healthcare. I think that there's you on healthcare. I think that there's a moral obligation on healthcare. a moral obligation on healthcare. a moral obligation on healthcare. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> So I do buy into this in a in a civil >> So I do buy into this in a in a civil >> So I do buy into this in a in a civil society. I could make the libertarian society. I could make the libertarian society. I could make the libertarian argument but I won't because I do think argument but I won't because I do think argument but I won't because I do think it's probably the right thing to say in it's probably the right thing to say in it's probably the right thing to say in a civil society no one should be without a civil society no one should be without a civil society no one should be without healthcare. healthcare. healthcare. How do you make that work where the How do you make that work where the How do you make that work where the government's paying bills and the costs government's paying bills and the costs government's paying bills and the costs don't just go through the roof? That's a don't just go through the roof? That's a don't just go through the roof? That's a long probably six-hour conversation and long probably six-hour conversation and long probably six-hour conversation and it's very technical, I think, on what it's very technical, I think, on what it's very technical, I think, on what you have to do uh to make healthcare you have to do uh to make healthcare you have to do uh to make healthcare accessible. And it's definitely got to accessible. And it's definitely got to accessible. And it's definitely got to be a multi-tiered system. be a multi-tiered system. be a multi-tiered system. >> Mhm. I guess one of the things that I >> Mhm. I guess one of the things that I >> Mhm. I guess one of the things that I was curious to get your take on because was curious to get your take on because was curious to get your take on because I've not really heard you talk about I've not really heard you talk about I've not really heard you talk about this a lot on the All-In podcast is your this a lot on the All-In podcast is your this a lot on the All-In podcast is your view on everything that's going on with view on everything that's going on with view on everything that's going on with this bloody war and the situation there.

this bloody war and the situation there. this bloody war and the situation there. I'm not sure if this is within your area I'm not sure if this is within your area I'm not sure if this is within your area of expertise, but it appears that the US of expertise, but it appears that the US of expertise, but it appears that the US is now stuck. It's a quandry. I read is now stuck. It's a quandry. I read is now stuck. It's a quandry. I read that Ray Dalio's piece a few weeks ago, that Ray Dalio's piece a few weeks ago, that Ray Dalio's piece a few weeks ago, which I thought was exactly right. The which I thought was exactly right. The which I thought was exactly right. The Chinese make their influence known Chinese make their influence known Chinese make their influence known in the same way that you would kind of in the same way that you would kind of in the same way that you would kind of read about it in Sunsu's Art of War. If read about it in Sunsu's Art of War. If read about it in Sunsu's Art of War. If you have to go to war, you've already you have to go to war, you've already you have to go to war, you've already lost. And that's a big difference lost. And that's a big difference lost. And that's a big difference between how the US behaves and how China between how the US behaves and how China between how the US behaves and how China behaves. If you look back on the track behaves. If you look back on the track behaves. If you look back on the track record of president's decisions as it record of president's decisions as it record of president's decisions as it relates to foreign policy in the United relates to foreign policy in the United relates to foreign policy in the United States over the last States over the last States over the last >> couple decades, there have not been a >> couple decades, there have not been a >> couple decades, there have not been a lot of good actions that have ended up lot of good actions that have ended up lot of good actions that have ended up in a good place. in a good place. in a good place. >> I think China has this capacity for >> I think China has this capacity for >> I think China has this capacity for influence without action, which is a influence without action, which is a influence without action, which is a really interesting model to observe. And really interesting model to observe. And really interesting model to observe. And the US has this kind of the US has this kind of the US has this kind of I don't want to say incentive, but when I don't want to say incentive, but when I don't want to say incentive, but when you go to a general and say, "Hey, you go to a general and say, "Hey, you go to a general and say, "Hey, should we go attack these guys?" the should we go attack these guys?" the should we go attack these guys?" the general spends the whole time training general spends the whole time training general spends the whole time training to attack the guys. So, you know, and to attack the guys. So, you know, and to attack the guys. So, you know, and then you have a national security then you have a national security then you have a national security council and you have advisers and all council and you have advisers and all council and you have advisers and all this sort of stuff, but there's a this sort of stuff, but there's a this sort of stuff, but there's a there's a priming uh in the US that I there's a priming uh in the US that I there's a priming uh in the US that I think maybe plays out in a way that think maybe plays out in a way that think maybe plays out in a way that maybe we take action when we shouldn't maybe we take action when we shouldn't maybe we take action when we shouldn't always be taking action.

always be taking action. always be taking action. >> China's position there only possible >> China's position there only possible >> China's position there only possible because there is a dominant force that because there is a dominant force that because there is a dominant force that is running around trying to police is running around trying to police is running around trying to police everything. So, they can kind of chill everything. So, they can kind of chill everything. So, they can kind of chill and let the US go police all the the and let the US go police all the the and let the US go police all the the problems and wars. Their military problems and wars. Their military problems and wars. Their military capacity is pretty impressive, but it's capacity is pretty impressive, but it's capacity is pretty impressive, but it's untested at scale, I guess, is one untested at scale, I guess, is one untested at scale, I guess, is one argument you can make against that argument you can make against that argument you can make against that point. I mean, China's got a lot of point. I mean, China's got a lot of point. I mean, China's got a lot of economic gamesmanship that they do. You economic gamesmanship that they do. You economic gamesmanship that they do. You know, we'll give you cheap stuff. If we know, we'll give you cheap stuff. If we know, we'll give you cheap stuff. If we can get these things from you, uh, you can get these things from you, uh, you can get these things from you, uh, you know, we'll keep an eye on you if you know, we'll keep an eye on you if you know, we'll keep an eye on you if you need help. I mean, there's like a lot of need help. I mean, there's like a lot of need help. I mean, there's like a lot of stuff that doesn't require direct stuff that doesn't require direct stuff that doesn't require direct kinetic action that they can kind of get kinetic action that they can kind of get kinetic action that they can kind of get things done. In terms of the US's things done. In terms of the US's things done. In terms of the US's position in Iran right now, there is um position in Iran right now, there is um position in Iran right now, there is um it appears an a threat to oil in terms it appears an a threat to oil in terms it appears an a threat to oil in terms of like the price at the pump and the I of like the price at the pump and the I of like the price at the pump and the I think it's the US oil reserve is down to think it's the US oil reserve is down to think it's the US oil reserve is down to a couple of weeks. a couple of weeks. a couple of weeks. >> I want to say this on the order of 24 >> I want to say this on the order of 24 >> I want to say this on the order of 24 million barrels in the SPR. million barrels in the SPR. million barrels in the SPR. >> So at the G7 summit in France, President >> So at the G7 summit in France, President >> So at the G7 summit in France, President Donald Trump addressed the precocious Donald Trump addressed the precocious Donald Trump addressed the precocious state of global oil inventories state of global oil inventories state of global oil inventories following supply disruption. He said, following supply disruption. He said, following supply disruption. He said, "We run out of reserves at about four "We run out of reserves at about four "We run out of reserves at about four weeks. You know, there are reserves all weeks. You know, there are reserves all weeks. You know, there are reserves all over the world and we would really run over the world and we would really run over the world and we would really run out and there'll be a time when you out and there'll be a time when you out and there'll be a time when you wouldn't be able to get it. It would be wouldn't be able to get it. It would be wouldn't be able to get it. It would be bedelum.

bedelum. bedelum. >> Mhm. And this was just as I think this >> Mhm. And this was just as I think this >> Mhm. And this was just as I think this was the explanation as to why he signed was the explanation as to why he signed was the explanation as to why he signed that with Iran. that with Iran. that with Iran. >> Uhhuh. So I mean if this is true then >> Uhhuh. So I mean if this is true then >> Uhhuh. So I mean if this is true then something needs to happen. But again it something needs to happen. But again it something needs to happen. But again it doesn't appear that Iran have much of of doesn't appear that Iran have much of of doesn't appear that Iran have much of of an incentive now you've decapitated the an incentive now you've decapitated the an incentive now you've decapitated the leader for to do really anything. They leader for to do really anything. They leader for to do really anything. They can kind of wait out. Game theory is can kind of wait out. Game theory is can kind of wait out. Game theory is Iran knows that the US can't do much Iran knows that the US can't do much Iran knows that the US can't do much more. more. more. >> Yeah, we going to do drum roll bombs, >> Yeah, we going to do drum roll bombs, >> Yeah, we going to do drum roll bombs, >> right? And well, I mean, Iran's now >> right? And well, I mean, Iran's now >> right? And well, I mean, Iran's now threatened uh Arab uh neighbors with threatened uh Arab uh neighbors with threatened uh Arab uh neighbors with retaliation against their energy retaliation against their energy retaliation against their energy infrastructure, which would be infrastructure, which would be infrastructure, which would be devastating to Saudi, Qatar, UAE. So, at devastating to Saudi, Qatar, UAE. So, at devastating to Saudi, Qatar, UAE. So, at this point, it seems like a bit of a this point, it seems like a bit of a this point, it seems like a bit of a stalemate that the US can't act for fear stalemate that the US can't act for fear stalemate that the US can't act for fear of the retaliation and the impact it of the retaliation and the impact it of the retaliation and the impact it would have on America's actual allies in would have on America's actual allies in would have on America's actual allies in the region. the region. the region. >> What do you think happens here? Trump >> What do you think happens here? Trump >> What do you think happens here? Trump straight up news, Iran now have this straight up news, Iran now have this straight up news, Iran now have this sort of choke hold on the world it sort of choke hold on the world it sort of choke hold on the world it seems. seems. seems. >> I mean the biggest driver also is the >> I mean the biggest driver also is the >> I mean the biggest driver also is the election cycle we're in. election cycle we're in. election cycle we're in. >> The midterms >> The midterms >> The midterms >> the midterms. So going into November >> the midterms. So going into November >> the midterms. So going into November this war is deeply unpopular both sides this war is deeply unpopular both sides this war is deeply unpopular both sides >> and so trying to get rid of the war is >> and so trying to get rid of the war is >> and so trying to get rid of the war is the incentive at the moment.

the incentive at the moment. the incentive at the moment. It's tough situation. It's tough situation. It's tough situation. >> You seem um hesitant. Yeah. >> You seem um hesitant. Yeah. >> You seem um hesitant. Yeah. >> No, I just I'm not a I'm not a great guy >> No, I just I'm not a I'm not a great guy >> No, I just I'm not a I'm not a great guy to appine on this. I just I don't know to appine on this. I just I don't know to appine on this. I just I don't know what to do. But just when you look at it what to do. But just when you look at it what to do. But just when you look at it from the outside, you see a president from the outside, you see a president from the outside, you see a president that says he's going to bomb, he's not that says he's going to bomb, he's not that says he's going to bomb, he's not going to bomb, he's calling it off, he's going to bomb, he's calling it off, he's going to bomb, he's calling it off, he's bombing, he's not bombing, he's calling bombing, he's not bombing, he's calling bombing, he's not bombing, he's calling it off, we've got a deal, there's no it off, we've got a deal, there's no it off, we've got a deal, there's no deal, deal, deal, >> and you're you're flopping around. And I >> and you're you're flopping around. And I >> and you're you're flopping around. And I think even that as a behavior to observe think even that as a behavior to observe think even that as a behavior to observe from the outside, you go, "Oh, okay." from the outside, you go, "Oh, okay." from the outside, you go, "Oh, okay." >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> well, let me ask you one question. It >> well, let me ask you one question. It >> well, let me ask you one question. It kind of makes him unpredictable, right? kind of makes him unpredictable, right? kind of makes him unpredictable, right? >> And that unpredictability can can in >> And that unpredictability can can in >> And that unpredictability can can in some cases be an advantage. I do think some cases be an advantage. I do think some cases be an advantage. I do think people have made this case that the people have made this case that the people have made this case that the president's unpredictability makes it president's unpredictability makes it president's unpredictability makes it hard for people to have a clear path on hard for people to have a clear path on hard for people to have a clear path on how to attack. Like my poker player how to attack. Like my poker player how to attack. Like my poker player buddies, their whole poker strategy, the buddies, their whole poker strategy, the buddies, their whole poker strategy, the guys who are the best in the world, who guys who are the best in the world, who guys who are the best in the world, who I'm friends with, their whole strategy I'm friends with, their whole strategy I'm friends with, their whole strategy is like create randomness in your is like create randomness in your is like create randomness in your gamesmanship. So that it's very hard for gamesmanship. So that it's very hard for gamesmanship. So that it's very hard for someone to exploit your gameplay. And um someone to exploit your gameplay. And um someone to exploit your gameplay. And um you know, I just don't know if you know you know, I just don't know if you know you know, I just don't know if you know what you're going to get with President what you're going to get with President what you're going to get with President Trump. You can meet with him and hear Trump. You can meet with him and hear Trump. You can meet with him and hear him say one thing and then he'll do him say one thing and then he'll do him say one thing and then he'll do something different later. something different later. something different later. >> I understand the merit of that argument. >> I understand the merit of that argument. >> I understand the merit of that argument. I in this situation, what I'm observing I in this situation, what I'm observing I in this situation, what I'm observing now is he's become predictable.

now is he's become predictable. now is he's become predictable. >> Yeah. in in terms of >> Yeah. in in terms of >> Yeah. in in terms of >> in terms of not being able to do any >> in terms of not being able to do any >> in terms of not being able to do any like not not like not not like not not >> not taking action >> not taking action >> not taking action >> not taking action threat post it biggest >> not taking action threat post it biggest >> not taking action threat post it biggest strike coming since World War II call it strike coming since World War II call it strike coming since World War II call it off off off >> what would you do if you were him >> what would you do if you were him >> what would you do if you were him [laughter] what would I do uh there's only bad what would I do uh there's only bad outcomes so it's which bad out honestly outcomes so it's which bad out honestly outcomes so it's which bad out honestly I think which bad outcome am I willing I think which bad outcome am I willing I think which bad outcome am I willing to accept the most to accept the most to accept the most >> and I guess for someone like Trump I >> and I guess for someone like Trump I >> and I guess for someone like Trump I don't know him but I I guess he's don't know him but I I guess he's don't know him but I I guess he's probably thinking which one would save probably thinking which one would save probably thinking which one would save the most face the most face the most face >> that's probably the right kind of you >> that's probably the right kind of you >> that's probably the right kind of you know objective function for him. know objective function for him. know objective function for him. >> I think the worst thing is all outcomes >> I think the worst thing is all outcomes >> I think the worst thing is all outcomes in my view lead to the straight of in my view lead to the straight of in my view lead to the straight of hormones being now basically a a tool of hormones being now basically a a tool of hormones being now basically a a tool of Iranian negotiation and it wasn't Iranian negotiation and it wasn't Iranian negotiation and it wasn't before. before. before. >> New point of leverage. >> New point of leverage. >> New point of leverage. >> Yeah. New point of leverage in that >> Yeah. New point of leverage in that >> Yeah. New point of leverage in that region which is a powerful point of region which is a powerful point of region which is a powerful point of leverage. leverage. leverage. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it may create um >> Yeah. Yeah. But it may create um >> Yeah. Yeah. But it may create um alternatives. There's conversation about alternatives. There's conversation about alternatives. There's conversation about creating other pipelines out to Israel. creating other pipelines out to Israel. creating other pipelines out to Israel. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> And so on. So maybe at the end of the >> And so on. So maybe at the end of the >> And so on. So maybe at the end of the day it creates incentive for other day it creates incentive for other day it creates incentive for other channels to be opened. uh TBD. I do channels to be opened. uh TBD. I do channels to be opened. uh TBD. I do think the um it's not just about the think the um it's not just about the think the um it's not just about the Iranian Iranian Iranian program, but it's like where's all the program, but it's like where's all the program, but it's like where's all the enriched uranium? That's probably if enriched uranium? That's probably if enriched uranium? That's probably if you're kind of asking a military you're kind of asking a military you're kind of asking a military adviser, I would say that's probably adviser, I would say that's probably adviser, I would say that's probably what they're thinking about as the the what they're thinking about as the the what they're thinking about as the the core because it takes a long time to core because it takes a long time to core because it takes a long time to enrich uranium to use for nuclear fuel enrich uranium to use for nuclear fuel enrich uranium to use for nuclear fuel like this. So getting the enriched like this. So getting the enriched like this. So getting the enriched uranium is probably a key objective.

uranium is probably a key objective. uranium is probably a key objective. >> The next election 2028 for the president >> The next election 2028 for the president >> The next election 2028 for the president presidential office. Do you think a presidential office. Do you think a presidential office. Do you think a Republican's going to win on in the Republican's going to win on in the Republican's going to win on in the course of how things are going course of how things are going course of how things are going >> for 28? >> for 28? >> for 28? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, I think it's going to be AOC. You >> No, I think it's going to be AOC. You >> No, I think it's going to be AOC. You think it's going to be ARC? think it's going to be ARC? think it's going to be ARC? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> At this point, >> At this point, >> At this point, >> why? >> why? >> why? >> It's all the stuff we've talked about. I >> It's all the stuff we've talked about. I >> It's all the stuff we've talked about. I just think that that's the the state of just think that that's the the state of just think that that's the the state of the nation. I think that's where people the nation. I think that's where people the nation. I think that's where people are at. They they want help. People feel are at. They they want help. People feel are at. They they want help. People feel desperate and they want a candidate that desperate and they want a candidate that desperate and they want a candidate that can promise to help make their life can promise to help make their life can promise to help make their life better. I think they're less concerned better. I think they're less concerned better. I think they're less concerned about, you know, freedom of movement, about, you know, freedom of movement, about, you know, freedom of movement, the kind of stuff we talked about. I the kind of stuff we talked about. I the kind of stuff we talked about. I think they're much more concerned about think they're much more concerned about think they're much more concerned about paying their bills and getting paying their bills and getting paying their bills and getting healthcare and getting child care. And healthcare and getting child care. And healthcare and getting child care. And >> you think she's going to run? >> you think she's going to run? >> you think she's going to run? >> I think she'll run. I think she'll beat >> I think she'll run. I think she'll beat >> I think she'll run. I think she'll beat Buddhajed and uh Buddhajed and uh Buddhajed and uh >> Kamla >> Kamla >> Kamla >> Kamla >> Kamla >> Kamla >> Newsome >> Newsome >> Newsome >> Newsome I don't think Nuome's gonna have >> Newsome I don't think Nuome's gonna have >> Newsome I don't think Nuome's gonna have like a great like a great like a great presence on a national stage. I think he presence on a national stage. I think he presence on a national stage. I think he he he he he looks and acts the part but he he he he looks and acts the part but he he he he looks and acts the part but it's going to be hard for him to sell it's going to be hard for him to sell it's going to be hard for him to sell the rest of America. And I think Kamla the rest of America. And I think Kamla the rest of America. And I think Kamla is just like it it's just no one wants is just like it it's just no one wants is just like it it's just no one wants to take the risk. AOC is just like mom to take the risk. AOC is just like mom to take the risk. AOC is just like mom Donnie in the sense that she brings a Donnie in the sense that she brings a Donnie in the sense that she brings a very different voice, you know, and I very different voice, you know, and I very different voice, you know, and I think this DSA movement has real legs to think this DSA movement has real legs to think this DSA movement has real legs to it because I don't see a lot of young it because I don't see a lot of young it because I don't see a lot of young people speaking out against the DSA people speaking out against the DSA people speaking out against the DSA movement. I see a lot of old Democrats movement. I see a lot of old Democrats movement. I see a lot of old Democrats speaking out against the DSA movement.

speaking out against the DSA movement. speaking out against the DSA movement. >> You see Kla Harris being perceived as >> You see Kla Harris being perceived as >> You see Kla Harris being perceived as more of a risk than AOC. more of a risk than AOC. more of a risk than AOC. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because she's lost before and they've se >> Because she's lost before and they've se >> Because she's lost before and they've se >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Because she's lost >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Because she's lost >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Because she's lost before. before. before. >> Yeah. But look, what do I know? It's >> Yeah. But look, what do I know? It's >> Yeah. But look, what do I know? It's interesting to I've heard you I think interesting to I've heard you I think interesting to I've heard you I think I've heard you guys on the Allin podcast I've heard you guys on the Allin podcast I've heard you guys on the Allin podcast say before that you think in 2028 it say before that you think in 2028 it say before that you think in 2028 it will be a Democrat or a socialist that will be a Democrat or a socialist that will be a Democrat or a socialist that wins. So wins. So wins. So >> I mean there's a lot of runway between >> I mean there's a lot of runway between >> I mean there's a lot of runway between here and there. here and there. here and there. >> And look I mean I want to talk about the >> And look I mean I want to talk about the >> And look I mean I want to talk about the the profound frontiers in front of us the profound frontiers in front of us the profound frontiers in front of us because I think that there really is because I think that there really is because I think that there really is this idea and you know there's a lot of this idea and you know there's a lot of this idea and you know there's a lot of my friends who have this idea of this my friends who have this idea of this my friends who have this idea of this golden age hypothesis that we're golden age hypothesis that we're golden age hypothesis that we're entering this golden age and people entering this golden age and people entering this golden age and people don't realize we're in it. that AI don't realize we're in it. that AI don't realize we're in it. that AI unleashes this capacity for human unleashes this capacity for human unleashes this capacity for human advancement. So the the the age reversal advancement. So the the the age reversal advancement. So the the the age reversal stuff. Right now we have a billion stuff. Right now we have a billion stuff. Right now we have a billion people in the world that are starving. people in the world that are starving. people in the world that are starving. We have hundreds of millions of people We have hundreds of millions of people We have hundreds of millions of people dying from curable disease. I think dying from curable disease. I think dying from curable disease. I think these are the sorts of things that are these are the sorts of things that are these are the sorts of things that are going to get resolved more quickly than going to get resolved more quickly than going to get resolved more quickly than we realize. I think that the we realize. I think that the we realize. I think that the productivity gains that are going to productivity gains that are going to productivity gains that are going to arise from AI are not just going to kind arise from AI are not just going to kind arise from AI are not just going to kind of, you know, be a battle on does the of, you know, be a battle on does the of, you know, be a battle on does the painter have a robot or not, but I think painter have a robot or not, but I think painter have a robot or not, but I think it's going to be about all this new it's going to be about all this new it's going to be about all this new stuff that's starting to be realized.

stuff that's starting to be realized. stuff that's starting to be realized. Material science, it's going to have a Material science, it's going to have a Material science, it's going to have a profound revolution right now. Traveling profound revolution right now. Traveling profound revolution right now. Traveling to the moon, which might seem like a to the moon, which might seem like a to the moon, which might seem like a billionaire's fantasy, but ends up billionaire's fantasy, but ends up billionaire's fantasy, but ends up becoming kind of a real true industrial becoming kind of a real true industrial becoming kind of a real true industrial frontier that everyone's going to frontier that everyone's going to frontier that everyone's going to participate in. There's just participate in. There's just participate in. There's just extraordinary abundance that arises from extraordinary abundance that arises from extraordinary abundance that arises from the stuff. Not in the sense that, oh, the stuff. Not in the sense that, oh, the stuff. Not in the sense that, oh, we're just making everything that we've we're just making everything that we've we're just making everything that we've had in the past cheaper, but the stuff had in the past cheaper, but the stuff had in the past cheaper, but the stuff that's in front of us, the frontiers that's in front of us, the frontiers that's in front of us, the frontiers that all of the entrepreneurs want to that all of the entrepreneurs want to that all of the entrepreneurs want to pursue, that all of the dreamers see as pursue, that all of the dreamers see as pursue, that all of the dreamers see as the opportunity and the hope for the opportunity and the hope for the opportunity and the hope for tomorrow, that all of the pragmatists tomorrow, that all of the pragmatists tomorrow, that all of the pragmatists are kind of acknowledging is like legit are kind of acknowledging is like legit are kind of acknowledging is like legit for the first time in our history. for the first time in our history. for the first time in our history. That's where I think there's a light That's where I think there's a light That's where I think there's a light kind of rising off this horizon. And I kind of rising off this horizon. And I kind of rising off this horizon. And I feel very good about that. Maybe AOC feel very good about that. Maybe AOC feel very good about that. Maybe AOC gets elected. That's just my view on gets elected. That's just my view on gets elected. That's just my view on timing where we sit today timing where we sit today timing where we sit today sociopolitically. But I do think that sociopolitically. But I do think that sociopolitically. But I do think that the light is rising in a way that like the light is rising in a way that like the light is rising in a way that like everyone's going to have a profound everyone's going to have a profound everyone's going to have a profound change to their lives in the next couple change to their lives in the next couple change to their lives in the next couple of years. So I am profoundly optimistic. of years. So I am profoundly optimistic. of years. So I am profoundly optimistic. We kind of talked a lot about socialism We kind of talked a lot about socialism We kind of talked a lot about socialism and government spending and all this and government spending and all this and government spending and all this today, but my experience on the today, but my experience on the today, but my experience on the ground is just like holy And ground is just like holy And ground is just like holy And there's no stopping it. Like this this there's no stopping it. Like this this there's no stopping it. Like this this amaz these amazing breakthroughs are amaz these amazing breakthroughs are amaz these amazing breakthroughs are here. One of the things you learn when here. One of the things you learn when here. One of the things you learn when you hire lots of people is that um in you hire lots of people is that um in you hire lots of people is that um in every change or every announcement you every change or every announcement you every change or every announcement you make in your company or we've raised make in your company or we've raised make in your company or we've raised money or whatever it might be, there's money or whatever it might be, there's money or whatever it might be, there's an there's a second question which is an there's a second question which is an there's a second question which is what everyone all of your team members what everyone all of your team members what everyone all of your team members are actually asking. What does it mean are actually asking. What does it mean are actually asking. What does it mean for me?

for me? for me? >> What does it mean for me? >> What does it mean for me? >> What does it mean for me? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And actually on the ground talking about >> And actually on the ground talking about >> And actually on the ground talking about being on the ground, it's the 63%. They being on the ground, it's the 63%. They being on the ground, it's the 63%. They can't they look up and they see a can't they look up and they see a can't they look up and they see a trillionaire, world's first trillionaire, world's first trillionaire, world's first trillionaire. They see AI trillionaire. They see AI trillionaire. They see AI >> Katy Perry with the flower out the >> Katy Perry with the flower out the >> Katy Perry with the flower out the window. They see a job displacement window. They see a job displacement window. They see a job displacement coming and then they go well listen coming and then they go well listen coming and then they go well listen can't can't pay the bills. So what's the can't can't pay the bills. So what's the can't can't pay the bills. So what's the mechanism for doing that right now for mechanism for doing that right now for mechanism for doing that right now for helping the people on the ground to helping the people on the ground to helping the people on the ground to benefit from the advances in this benefit from the advances in this benefit from the advances in this technology? What would the mechanism be? technology? What would the mechanism be? technology? What would the mechanism be? >> 401ks to own this stuff would would be >> 401ks to own this stuff would would be >> 401ks to own this stuff would would be what we need to change from a public what we need to change from a public what we need to change from a public policy perspective so that they all have policy perspective so that they all have policy perspective so that they all have direct ownership in these things direct ownership in these things direct ownership in these things >> and they can look on their phone and see >> and they can look on their phone and see >> and they can look on their phone and see how they're benefiting from how they're benefiting from how they're benefiting from >> I'll tell you everyone thinks that AI is >> I'll tell you everyone thinks that AI is >> I'll tell you everyone thinks that AI is going to accumulate to two or three going to accumulate to two or three going to accumulate to two or three companies. I don't think that's how it's companies. I don't think that's how it's companies. I don't think that's how it's going to play out. Everyone's using AI going to play out. Everyone's using AI going to play out. Everyone's using AI and everyone's using open source AI now. and everyone's using open source AI now. and everyone's using open source AI now. Meaning every company's going to benefit Meaning every company's going to benefit Meaning every company's going to benefit from AI, which means every company is from AI, which means every company is from AI, which means every company is going to have more money to pay their going to have more money to pay their going to have more money to pay their employees, hire more people, train them employees, hire more people, train them employees, hire more people, train them up, do other things with them. So I'm up, do other things with them. So I'm up, do other things with them. So I'm like I I don't buy into the narrative like I I don't buy into the narrative like I I don't buy into the narrative that Dario, Elon, and Sam end up having that Dario, Elon, and Sam end up having that Dario, Elon, and Sam end up having all the value in AI. I think the Chinese all the value in AI. I think the Chinese all the value in AI. I think the Chinese blew that up. I think the open source blew that up. I think the open source blew that up. I think the open source stuff is the best thing to happen.

stuff is the best thing to happen. stuff is the best thing to happen. >> Doesn't that mean there's going to be a >> Doesn't that mean there's going to be a >> Doesn't that mean there's going to be a bit of an e economic collapse here? bit of an e economic collapse here? bit of an e economic collapse here? >> Those data centers still need to exist >> Those data centers still need to exist >> Those data centers still need to exist to run the models. Are we in an AI to run the models. Are we in an AI to run the models. Are we in an AI bubble in that regard? bubble in that regard? bubble in that regard? >> If this this capex on AI, if the cost to >> If this this capex on AI, if the cost to >> If this this capex on AI, if the cost to uh run a Chinese model comes down by uh run a Chinese model comes down by uh run a Chinese model comes down by some number of fold over the cost to run some number of fold over the cost to run some number of fold over the cost to run a proprietary model, I'm going to run a proprietary model, I'm going to run a proprietary model, I'm going to run more models. I'm going to do it more. more models. I'm going to do it more. more models. I'm going to do it more. And as I do it more, I'm going to need And as I do it more, I'm going to need And as I do it more, I'm going to need more compute. I need more data centers. more compute. I need more data centers. more compute. I need more data centers. I need more thing to do that. So that's I need more thing to do that. So that's I need more thing to do that. So that's where she go. By the way, on the data where she go. By the way, on the data where she go. By the way, on the data center argument, I totally buy into center argument, I totally buy into center argument, I totally buy into people's concerns about data centers people's concerns about data centers people's concerns about data centers driving up the cost of energy. I the driving up the cost of energy. I the driving up the cost of energy. I the water thing is I think BS, but um the water thing is I think BS, but um the water thing is I think BS, but um the cost of energy thing, every data center cost of energy thing, every data center cost of energy thing, every data center should be on its own grid and every data should be on its own grid and every data should be on its own grid and every data center should make enough power not just center should make enough power not just center should make enough power not just to be on their own grid, but to pump to be on their own grid, but to pump to be on their own grid, but to pump energy back into the grid. If you set energy back into the grid. If you set energy back into the grid. If you set that as a standard for every data center that as a standard for every data center that as a standard for every data center project in the US going forward, you've project in the US going forward, you've project in the US going forward, you've solved the data center problem because solved the data center problem because solved the data center problem because now you're dropping the price of now you're dropping the price of now you're dropping the price of electricity for everyone in America and electricity for everyone in America and electricity for everyone in America and these data centers are all off the grid these data centers are all off the grid these data centers are all off the grid and then everyone can own those. They and then everyone can own those. They and then everyone can own those. They can all be in REITs and people can buy can all be in REITs and people can buy can all be in REITs and people can buy stock and and many of those are publicly stock and and many of those are publicly stock and and many of those are publicly traded so they should be in your 401k traded so they should be in your 401k traded so they should be in your 401k and everyone can own a piece.

and everyone can own a piece. and everyone can own a piece. >> David, we have a closing tradition on >> David, we have a closing tradition on >> David, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves this podcast where the last guest leaves this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not a question for the next guest not a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And knowing who they're leaving it for. And knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you is, what is the question left for you is, what is the question left for you is, what is one idea you have that is uncomfortable one idea you have that is uncomfortable one idea you have that is uncomfortable for people to hear that you don't for people to hear that you don't for people to hear that you don't typically say out loud? typically say out loud? typically say out loud? Um, I think we should end the federal Um, I think we should end the federal Um, I think we should end the federal student loan program in the United student loan program in the United student loan program in the United States and I think education cost will States and I think education cost will States and I think education cost will come way down and the private market come way down and the private market come way down and the private market will still provide all the student loans will still provide all the student loans will still provide all the student loans that people need. that people need. that people need. I think if the federal student loan I think if the federal student loan I think if the federal student loan program because it doesn't discern program because it doesn't discern program because it doesn't discern colleges, degrees, colleges, degrees, colleges, degrees, individual performance, I think that by individual performance, I think that by individual performance, I think that by ending that federal student loan ending that federal student loan ending that federal student loan program, the quality of education in the program, the quality of education in the program, the quality of education in the US will improve dramatically and the US will improve dramatically and the US will improve dramatically and the price will drop dramatically and more price will drop dramatically and more price will drop dramatically and more people will have access to higher people will have access to higher people will have access to higher quality education. I know it's quality education. I know it's quality education. I know it's counterintuitive, but that's what'll counterintuitive, but that's what'll counterintuitive, but that's what'll happen. It's sort of like, you know, happen. It's sort of like, you know, happen. It's sort of like, you know, Malay removed rent control in Argentina Malay removed rent control in Argentina Malay removed rent control in Argentina and rents declined. [laughter] like the and rents declined. [laughter] like the and rents declined. [laughter] like the the we've propped up the price of the we've propped up the price of the we've propped up the price of education in the US with the federal education in the US with the federal education in the US with the federal student loan program. And so the federal student loan program. And so the federal student loan program. And so the federal student loan program was replaced by a student loan program was replaced by a student loan program was replaced by a program that is accountable, meaning the program that is accountable, meaning the program that is accountable, meaning the person that's underwriting the loan person that's underwriting the loan person that's underwriting the loan knows that that loan has to perform, knows that that loan has to perform, knows that that loan has to perform, meaning that that school has to be good meaning that that school has to be good meaning that that school has to be good or that individual has to be doing a or that individual has to be doing a or that individual has to be doing a good degree, good degree, good degree, the market will correct itself and the market will correct itself and the market will correct itself and people will end up getting a loan if people will end up getting a loan if people will end up getting a loan if they go to one get one degree versus they go to one get one degree versus they go to one get one degree versus another. So if you get another if you another. So if you get another if you another. So if you get another if you get a bad degree, you know, pick your get a bad degree, you know, pick your get a bad degree, you know, pick your basket weaving, you know, major, there's basket weaving, you know, major, there's basket weaving, you know, major, there's no loan available. But if you get a no loan available. But if you get a no loan available. But if you get a degree in something that might be useful degree in something that might be useful degree in something that might be useful and you're likely to get a job, there's

and you're likely to get a job, there's and you're likely to get a job, there's a loan available. a loan available. a loan available. >> But for those people that can't get a >> But for those people that can't get a >> But for those people that can't get a loan because they want to do basket loan because they want to do basket loan because they want to do basket weaving, they're going to have to go weaving, they're going to have to go weaving, they're going to have to go find something find something find something >> else to do >> else to do >> else to do >> else to do. So they might have to go >> else to do. So they might have to go >> else to do. So they might have to go work somewhere else. work somewhere else. work somewhere else. >> So the alternative was we put them in >> So the alternative was we put them in >> So the alternative was we put them in $200,000 of debt and then they didn't $200,000 of debt and then they didn't $200,000 of debt and then they didn't have a job afterwards. Is the have a job afterwards. Is the have a job afterwards. Is the counterargument also that the most counterargument also that the most counterargument also that the most privileged will get the best education privileged will get the best education privileged will get the best education and that privilege can be intellectual and that privilege can be intellectual and that privilege can be intellectual privilege or it can be financial privilege or it can be financial privilege or it can be financial privilege but there's there'll be a privilege but there's there'll be a privilege but there's there'll be a divide between okay you guys are all divide between okay you guys are all divide between okay you guys are all going to Harvard going to Harvard going to Harvard >> you still have a scholarship system >> you still have a scholarship system >> you still have a scholarship system scholarship system doesn't change you scholarship system doesn't change you scholarship system doesn't change you still have scholarships and solve for still have scholarships and solve for still have scholarships and solve for that that that >> and education is with AI is changing as >> and education is with AI is changing as >> and education is with AI is changing as well well well >> but you know I'll just say like there's >> but you know I'll just say like there's >> but you know I'll just say like there's a lot of these universities that get a lot of these universities that get a lot of these universities that get accredited and they provide terrible accredited and they provide terrible accredited and they provide terrible education education education >> yeah it's true then just give you debt >> yeah it's true then just give you debt >> yeah it's true then just give you debt >> and then they give you debt and so you >> and then they give you debt and so you >> and then they give you debt and so you graduate with a degree from, you know, graduate with a degree from, you know, graduate with a degree from, you know, whatever crappy university or college, whatever crappy university or college, whatever crappy university or college, but you assumed that because the but you assumed that because the but you assumed that because the government gave you the loan, you were government gave you the loan, you were government gave you the loan, you were going to have a job at the end. going to have a job at the end. going to have a job at the end. >> Yeah. It's a scam. >> Yeah. It's a scam. >> Yeah. It's a scam. >> It's a scam. It's one of the great lies. >> It's a scam. It's one of the great lies. >> It's a scam. It's one of the great lies. Imagine if it was all privately funded. Imagine if it was all privately funded. Imagine if it was all privately funded. There's plenty of lenders. I mean, the There's plenty of lenders. I mean, the There's plenty of lenders. I mean, the amount of money that's going into amount of money that's going into amount of money that's going into student loans is actually a small student loans is actually a small student loans is actually a small percentage of what's going into home percentage of what's going into home percentage of what's going into home loans. So, there's plenty of bank loans. So, there's plenty of bank loans. So, there's plenty of bank capital out there to fund student loans.

capital out there to fund student loans. capital out there to fund student loans. So the student loan debt would suddenly So the student loan debt would suddenly So the student loan debt would suddenly become, hey, if you go to this crappy become, hey, if you go to this crappy become, hey, if you go to this crappy university, we're not giving you university, we're not giving you university, we're not giving you $200,000 of debt. $200,000 of debt. $200,000 of debt. >> True. I see what you're saying. It would >> True. I see what you're saying. It would >> True. I see what you're saying. It would also force people to pick things that also force people to pick things that also force people to pick things that were linked to the employment market were linked to the employment market were linked to the employment market versus say like basket weaving used as versus say like basket weaving used as versus say like basket weaving used as an example. But maybe if you know, maybe an example. But maybe if you know, maybe an example. But maybe if you know, maybe I'd be forced more into things that had I'd be forced more into things that had I'd be forced more into things that had a higher guarantee of return because of a higher guarantee of return because of a higher guarantee of return because of the private markets. the private markets. the private markets. >> And it doesn't mean >> And it doesn't mean >> And it doesn't mean >> it's a retraining mechanism in that >> it's a retraining mechanism in that >> it's a retraining mechanism in that regard. regard. regard. >> It is. And I think this is a great reset >> It is. And I think this is a great reset >> It is. And I think this is a great reset that's needed if we got rid of the that's needed if we got rid of the that's needed if we got rid of the federal student because I don't think federal student because I don't think federal student because I don't think you can reform federal student loans. you can reform federal student loans. you can reform federal student loans. It's just too complicated. But if you It's just too complicated. But if you It's just too complicated. But if you shut it down the and you know or you shut it down the and you know or you shut it down the and you know or you transition it over time and let the transition it over time and let the transition it over time and let the private market underwrite it, you'd have private market underwrite it, you'd have private market underwrite it, you'd have a better path. a better path. a better path. >> David, thank you. Thank you. Thank you >> David, thank you. Thank you. Thank you >> David, thank you. Thank you. Thank you to you and all your co-hosts on the to you and all your co-hosts on the to you and all your co-hosts on the All-In podcast. It's one of my favorite All-In podcast. It's one of my favorite All-In podcast. It's one of my favorite podcasts. So, I highly recommend podcasts. So, I highly recommend podcasts. So, I highly recommend everybody goes and listens to that. I I everybody goes and listens to that. I I everybody goes and listens to that. I I listen to it all the time and it really listen to it all the time and it really listen to it all the time and it really helps me develop my own perspective on helps me develop my own perspective on helps me develop my own perspective on the world. So, I really appreciate the the world. So, I really appreciate the the world. So, I really appreciate the fact that you guys take the time to do fact that you guys take the time to do fact that you guys take the time to do that amongst your very busy schedules. that amongst your very busy schedules. that amongst your very busy schedules. >> Well, thank you for having me >> Well, thank you for having me >> Well, thank you for having me >> and uh yeah, appreciate you coming here >> and uh yeah, appreciate you coming here >> and uh yeah, appreciate you coming here today and hopefully we can continue this today and hopefully we can continue this today and hopefully we can continue this conversation once uh we get more of conversation once uh we get more of conversation once uh we get more of these answers and the fog clears a these answers and the fog clears a these answers and the fog clears a little bit. Absolutely. little bit. Absolutely. little bit. Absolutely. >> Thank you so much. And I'll link all of >> Thank you so much. And I'll link all of >> Thank you so much. And I'll link all of your links below for people to go read your links below for people to go read your links below for people to go read your stuff. Is there anywhere else in your stuff. Is there anywhere else in your stuff. Is there anywhere else in particular people can get more of your particular people can get more of your particular people can get more of your content?

content? content? >> All ends really where I'm at. >> All ends really where I'm at. >> All ends really where I'm at. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Anywhere else follow you on social >> Anywhere else follow you on social >> Anywhere else follow you on social media. media. media. >> Follow me on uh Twitter at Freedberg. I >> Follow me on uh Twitter at Freedberg. I >> Follow me on uh Twitter at Freedberg. I don't post very much, but that's it. I don't post very much, but that's it. I don't post very much, but that's it. I [laughter] mean, um that's where I'm at. [laughter] mean, um that's where I'm at. [laughter] mean, um that's where I'm at. >> Great. We'll see you then. Thank you. >> Great. We'll see you then. Thank you. >> Great. We'll see you then. Thank you. >> Thank you, David. YouTube have this new >> Thank you, David. YouTube have this new >> Thank you, David. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly crazy algorithm where they know exactly crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next what video you would like to watch next what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing based on AI and all of your viewing based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that behavior. And the algorithm says that behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. this video is the perfect video for you. this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking It's different for everybody looking It's different for everybody looking right now.