How to Make Friends in Real Life [The Deep Dish - Ep. 28]

I think that's the big problem is that I think that's the big problem is that we don't have an understanding of what we don't have an understanding of what we don't have an understanding of what friendship should [music] look like. So, friendship should [music] look like. So, friendship should [music] look like. So, we have this ideal in our head and that we have this ideal in our head and that we have this ideal in our head and that ideal just is [music] detrimental to us ideal just is [music] detrimental to us ideal just is [music] detrimental to us in so many ways. Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor. I'm here truths. I am Courtney Doctor. I'm here truths. I am Courtney Doctor. I'm here with my friend and co-host Melissa with my friend and co-host Melissa with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger and we are joined by our friend Krueger and we are joined by our friend Krueger and we are joined by our friend Christine Hoover. Christine, welcome. Christine Hoover. Christine, welcome. Christine Hoover. Christine, welcome. >> Thanks for having me. We're so glad to >> Thanks for having me. We're so glad to >> Thanks for having me. We're so glad to be here. be here. be here. >> Yeah. Well, I love listening to you talk >> Yeah. Well, I love listening to you talk >> Yeah. Well, I love listening to you talk about what we're going to be talking about what we're going to be talking about what we're going to be talking about today. But Christine is the author about today. But Christine is the author about today. But Christine is the author of many books and Bible studies. She's of many books and Bible studies. She's of many books and Bible studies. She's also a pastor's wife and the women's also a pastor's wife and the women's also a pastor's wife and the women's ministry associate at the Northwest ministry associate at the Northwest ministry associate at the Northwest Congregation of the Austin Stone uh Congregation of the Austin Stone uh Congregation of the Austin Stone uh church in Austin, Texas. And we are so church in Austin, Texas. And we are so church in Austin, Texas. And we are so excited because we're going to talk excited because we're going to talk excited because we're going to talk today about friendship and I know you've today about friendship and I know you've today about friendship and I know you've written on this Christine. You've spoken written on this Christine. You've spoken written on this Christine. You've spoken at our conferences on this. And it was at our conferences on this. And it was at our conferences on this. And it was interesting. This was one I think of our interesting. This was one I think of our interesting. This was one I think of our biggest breakouts at the conference.

biggest breakouts at the conference. biggest breakouts at the conference. It's always interesting what what rises It's always interesting what what rises It's always interesting what what rises to the surface as a topic because it's to the surface as a topic because it's to the surface as a topic because it's really telling and I think it's because really telling and I think it's because really telling and I think it's because this topic making friends is almost it's this topic making friends is almost it's this topic making friends is almost it's something we all want but it's it seems something we all want but it's it seems something we all want but it's it seems increasingly difficult in our culture increasingly difficult in our culture increasingly difficult in our culture and I don't know if it's because we move and I don't know if it's because we move and I don't know if it's because we move so much. I don't know if it's um because so much. I don't know if it's um because so much. I don't know if it's um because just culturally things have changed and just culturally things have changed and just culturally things have changed and we have social media and we think we we have social media and we think we we have social media and we think we have 5,000 friends but we don't feel have 5,000 friends but we don't feel have 5,000 friends but we don't feel like we have one good friend. I I don't like we have one good friend. I I don't like we have one good friend. I I don't I'm not really sure. But have you ever I'm not really sure. But have you ever I'm not really sure. But have you ever had a season in your life where it was had a season in your life where it was had a season in your life where it was just kind of really difficult to make just kind of really difficult to make just kind of really difficult to make friends? Absolutely. I think everyone I friends? Absolutely. I think everyone I friends? Absolutely. I think everyone I think it's such a a topic that people think it's such a a topic that people think it's such a a topic that people want to talk about because friendship is want to talk about because friendship is want to talk about because friendship is hard and I just want to acknowledge that hard and I just want to acknowledge that hard and I just want to acknowledge that straight away. like I I'm speaking about straight away. like I I'm speaking about straight away. like I I'm speaking about it. I've written about it, but I I it. I've written about it, but I I it. I've written about it, but I I struggle with this. This is something struggle with this. This is something struggle with this. This is something that is just in the past month, I've that is just in the past month, I've that is just in the past month, I've been praying about how do I handle this been praying about how do I handle this been praying about how do I handle this situation? How do I pursue this person?

situation? How do I pursue this person? situation? How do I pursue this person? That kind of thing. And so, I I just That kind of thing. And so, I I just That kind of thing. And so, I I just think it's hard for everyone. So, there think it's hard for everyone. So, there think it's hard for everyone. So, there have been times where I've gone through have been times where I've gone through have been times where I've gone through seasons where I've asked myself, do I seasons where I've asked myself, do I seasons where I've asked myself, do I even have a friend? Um and and how do I even have a friend? Um and and how do I even have a friend? Um and and how do I deepen these friendships? And so, deepen these friendships? And so, deepen these friendships? And so, absolutely, yes. I think everyone could absolutely, yes. I think everyone could absolutely, yes. I think everyone could say yes to that question. That's hard. say yes to that question. That's hard. say yes to that question. That's hard. >> Yeah. When we first moved, I was newly >> Yeah. When we first moved, I was newly >> Yeah. When we first moved, I was newly married and had one little baby and then married and had one little baby and then married and had one little baby and then a second little baby came along really a second little baby came along really a second little baby came along really quickly and we moved to Jackson, quickly and we moved to Jackson, quickly and we moved to Jackson, Mississippi. And you know, we didn't Mississippi. And you know, we didn't Mississippi. And you know, we didn't have any of our support system, no have any of our support system, no have any of our support system, no family, no anything. And I remember it family, no anything. And I remember it family, no anything. And I remember it it's probably the loneliest year of my it's probably the loneliest year of my it's probably the loneliest year of my life. Um, I had, you know, I wasn't far life. Um, I had, you know, I wasn't far life. Um, I had, you know, I wasn't far out of college where friends are just out of college where friends are just out of college where friends are just all around you and you're just kind of all around you and you're just kind of all around you and you're just kind of doing everything in that friend group. doing everything in that friend group. doing everything in that friend group. And so I was an adult now. I'm a married And so I was an adult now. I'm a married And so I was an adult now. I'm a married woman. I'm a mom. And I mean, not one woman. I'm a mom. And I mean, not one woman. I'm a mom. And I mean, not one friend. And I ended up at a park. I was friend. And I ended up at a park. I was friend. And I ended up at a park. I was pushing uh my oldest in a stroller pushing uh my oldest in a stroller pushing uh my oldest in a stroller pregnant with my second one. And I saw pregnant with my second one. And I saw pregnant with my second one. And I saw this group of three women over at a park this group of three women over at a park this group of three women over at a park bench. And one of them looked over and bench. And one of them looked over and bench. And one of them looked over and waved. And I literally I looked behind waved. And I literally I looked behind waved. And I literally I looked behind me because I didn't believe she was me because I didn't believe she was me because I didn't believe she was actually waving to me. But that was the actually waving to me. But that was the actually waving to me. But that was the beginning of the Lord's answer to beginning of the Lord's answer to beginning of the Lord's answer to friendship in that season. But yeah, I friendship in that season. But yeah, I friendship in that season. But yeah, I agree. We've all had those seasons where agree. We've all had those seasons where agree. We've all had those seasons where we long for and I think part of it too.

we long for and I think part of it too. we long for and I think part of it too. We have this narrative that everybody We have this narrative that everybody We have this narrative that everybody has a best friend that they grew up with has a best friend that they grew up with has a best friend that they grew up with and they're friends until they're 80. and they're friends until they're 80. and they're friends until they're 80. And I just don't think that's true for And I just don't think that's true for And I just don't think that's true for most people. most people. most people. >> That's right. I think that's the big >> That's right. I think that's the big >> That's right. I think that's the big problem is that we don't have an problem is that we don't have an problem is that we don't have an understanding of what friendship should understanding of what friendship should understanding of what friendship should look like. So, we have this ideal in our look like. So, we have this ideal in our look like. So, we have this ideal in our head and that ideal just is detrimental head and that ideal just is detrimental head and that ideal just is detrimental to us in so many ways. to us in so many ways. to us in so many ways. >> Oh, that's good. That ideal is >> Oh, that's good. That ideal is >> Oh, that's good. That ideal is detrimental to us. Well, we've talked detrimental to us. Well, we've talked detrimental to us. Well, we've talked about that before that like frustration about that before that like frustration about that before that like frustration uh comes between expectation and uh comes between expectation and uh comes between expectation and reality. reality. reality. >> Well, now I'm going to say that's what >> Well, now I'm going to say that's what >> Well, now I'm going to say that's what Courtney lives in with me, like Courtney lives in with me, like Courtney lives in with me, like [laughter] expectation and reality. And [laughter] expectation and reality. And [laughter] expectation and reality. And so, she gets to practice this a lot. Um, so, she gets to practice this a lot. Um, so, she gets to practice this a lot. Um, but no, I think it's funny what you were but no, I think it's funny what you were but no, I think it's funny what you were saying, Courtney. I think the 20s is a saying, Courtney. I think the 20s is a saying, Courtney. I think the 20s is a really hard time to figure out really hard time to figure out really hard time to figure out friendship because you went from a friendship because you went from a friendship because you went from a season where everyone was kind of in the season where everyone was kind of in the season where everyone was kind of in the same life stage in general and look no same life stage in general and look no same life stage in general and look no one had nice things. We all lived in one had nice things. We all lived in one had nice things. We all lived in really pretty ugly housing generally, really pretty ugly housing generally, really pretty ugly housing generally, you know, like with multiple roommates, you know, like with multiple roommates, you know, like with multiple roommates, you know, everything was kind of the you know, everything was kind of the you know, everything was kind of the same. You know, maybe someone had a same. You know, maybe someone had a same. You know, maybe someone had a nicer comforter than you, but goodness, nicer comforter than you, but goodness, nicer comforter than you, but goodness, you know, it was just to then your 20s you know, it was just to then your 20s you know, it was just to then your 20s where some people have resources to where some people have resources to where some people have resources to travel and do fun things. Some people travel and do fun things. Some people travel and do fun things. Some people are just still living in their parents' are just still living in their parents' are just still living in their parents' basement trying to find a job, you know?

basement trying to find a job, you know? basement trying to find a job, you know? I mean, like, it's it's a I think it's I mean, like, it's it's a I think it's I mean, like, it's it's a I think it's the first time lives start to really the first time lives start to really the first time lives start to really diverge. And so, people who you thought, diverge. And so, people who you thought, diverge. And so, people who you thought, I'm going to be friends with this person I'm going to be friends with this person I'm going to be friends with this person forever, well, their life takes a forever, well, their life takes a forever, well, their life takes a totally different trajectory than yours. totally different trajectory than yours. totally different trajectory than yours. And I think that complicates friendship. And I think that complicates friendship. And I think that complicates friendship. So seasons of life changes. You might So seasons of life changes. You might So seasons of life changes. You might connect in one season of life, but maybe connect in one season of life, but maybe connect in one season of life, but maybe in the next season of life, you don't in the next season of life, you don't in the next season of life, you don't connect. And for us, it was moving. We connect. And for us, it was moving. We connect. And for us, it was moving. We moved so many times in the first few moved so many times in the first few moved so many times in the first few years. And a lot of people are doing years. And a lot of people are doing years. And a lot of people are doing this. We were moving for my husband's this. We were moving for my husband's this. We were moving for my husband's job, and then we were moving for job, and then we were moving for job, and then we were moving for educational reasons. And every one of educational reasons. And every one of educational reasons. And every one of those is like an upheaval of friendship. those is like an upheaval of friendship. those is like an upheaval of friendship. >> And I think that can make it tricky. But >> And I think that can make it tricky. But >> And I think that can make it tricky. But I also think this expectation is a I also think this expectation is a I also think this expectation is a really good point. And so let me ask you really good point. And so let me ask you really good point. And so let me ask you this. What would be kind of your what this. What would be kind of your what this. What would be kind of your what what should we think of when we think of what should we think of when we think of what should we think of when we think of gospel friendship? What does it look gospel friendship? What does it look gospel friendship? What does it look like to have a gospel friend? You know, like to have a gospel friend? You know, like to have a gospel friend? You know, because I I I think there's this notion because I I I think there's this notion because I I I think there's this notion of I have my best friend and it's almost of I have my best friend and it's almost of I have my best friend and it's almost possessive like this is my person. Um, possessive like this is my person. Um, possessive like this is my person. Um, and we talk about it sometimes that way, and we talk about it sometimes that way, and we talk about it sometimes that way, whereas what's what's a little bit whereas what's what's a little bit whereas what's what's a little bit different about thinking about different about thinking about different about thinking about friendship in terms of gospel friendship in terms of gospel friendship in terms of gospel centeredness? I think that's such an centeredness? I think that's such an centeredness? I think that's such an important question because that's really important question because that's really important question because that's really getting to we don't want to idolize getting to we don't want to idolize getting to we don't want to idolize friendship and what we think it should friendship and what we think it should friendship and what we think it should be in this perfect picture and so what be in this perfect picture and so what be in this perfect picture and so what is the real picture of friendship as God is the real picture of friendship as God is the real picture of friendship as God has designed it in this time where we has designed it in this time where we has designed it in this time where we live where we live with sin and I think live where we live with sin and I think live where we live with sin and I think that that the gospel gives us itself that that the gospel gives us itself that that the gospel gives us itself gives us a picture of what gospel gives us a picture of what gospel gives us a picture of what gospel friendship is that it's a relationship

friendship is that it's a relationship friendship is that it's a relationship where we tell each other the truth you where we tell each other the truth you where we tell each other the truth you know that sometimes we have to confront know that sometimes we have to confront know that sometimes we have to confront friends we have to be confronted we we friends we have to be confronted we we friends we have to be confronted we we rub up against people who also are rub up against people who also are rub up against people who also are sinners and so there's going to be sinners and so there's going to be sinners and so there's going to be conflict a lot of times we don't leave conflict a lot of times we don't leave conflict a lot of times we don't leave room for that in our idea of what room for that in our idea of what room for that in our idea of what friendship should be and so we run away friendship should be and so we run away friendship should be and so we run away when things are hard um and also when things are hard um and also when things are hard um and also forgiveness is a part of the gospel that forgiveness is a part of the gospel that forgiveness is a part of the gospel that God extends himself toward us and he God extends himself toward us and he God extends himself toward us and he extends his mercy toward us and so we extends his mercy toward us and so we extends his mercy toward us and so we need to be ready to do that for other need to be ready to do that for other need to be ready to do that for other people and sometimes it's when they come people and sometimes it's when they come people and sometimes it's when they come to us with something but sometimes it's to us with something but sometimes it's to us with something but sometimes it's just bearing with them and who they are just bearing with them and who they are just bearing with them and who they are that they are sinners ers and we're that they are sinners ers and we're that they are sinners ers and we're going to be willing to continue to going to be willing to continue to going to be willing to continue to engage in that way. So, I think those engage in that way. So, I think those engage in that way. So, I think those are the kind of main components that are the kind of main components that are the kind of main components that come to mind for me. What about y'all? come to mind for me. What about y'all? come to mind for me. What about y'all? >> Well, I remember reading a book in the >> Well, I remember reading a book in the >> Well, I remember reading a book in the '9s by D. Breston called The Friendships '9s by D. Breston called The Friendships '9s by D. Breston called The Friendships of Women, and there's a line, and I'll of Women, and there's a line, and I'll of Women, and there's a line, and I'll probably kind of botch it a little bit, probably kind of botch it a little bit, probably kind of botch it a little bit, but but she it's it's stuck with me in but but she it's it's stuck with me in but but she it's it's stuck with me in so many different relationships, but she so many different relationships, but she so many different relationships, but she said, "It is theologically sound to said, "It is theologically sound to said, "It is theologically sound to expect your friends to fail you." And expect your friends to fail you." And expect your friends to fail you." And then she quoted, "For all have sinned then she quoted, "For all have sinned then she quoted, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." She and fall short of the glory of God." She and fall short of the glory of God." She said, "So, as a gospel friend, what you said, "So, as a gospel friend, what you said, "So, as a gospel friend, what you want to do is decide on the front end want to do is decide on the front end want to do is decide on the front end what your response is going to be. And a what your response is going to be. And a what your response is going to be. And a gospel- centered friend, the response is gospel- centered friend, the response is gospel- centered friend, the response is going to be to forgive, to bear with, to going to be to forgive, to bear with, to going to be to forgive, to bear with, to to persevere um when our friends fail to persevere um when our friends fail to persevere um when our friends fail us, frustrate us, and because we want us, frustrate us, and because we want us, frustrate us, and because we want them to do the same."

them to do the same." them to do the same." >> That's right. That's what I was going to >> That's right. That's what I was going to >> That's right. That's what I was going to say is we also have to remember that we say is we also have to remember that we say is we also have to remember that we are sinners and we bring that into our are sinners and we bring that into our are sinners and we bring that into our relationships as well. relationships as well. relationships as well. >> Yes. Mhm. Well, and I think this idea of >> Yes. Mhm. Well, and I think this idea of >> Yes. Mhm. Well, and I think this idea of having friendships that are not just we having friendships that are not just we having friendships that are not just we we think about our Christian friends, we think about our Christian friends, we think about our Christian friends, right? Friendships with Christian women, right? Friendships with Christian women, right? Friendships with Christian women, but I have had friendships with but I have had friendships with but I have had friendships with Christian women that are not necessarily Christian women that are not necessarily Christian women that are not necessarily gospel- centered friendships. They don't gospel- centered friendships. They don't gospel- centered friendships. They don't look any different than my friendships look any different than my friendships look any different than my friendships with non-Christian women. They're based with non-Christian women. They're based with non-Christian women. They're based on, you know, just I don't know, just on, you know, just I don't know, just on, you know, just I don't know, just the things we're doing together. And we the things we're doing together. And we the things we're doing together. And we don't ever, it's what you said, don't ever, it's what you said, don't ever, it's what you said, Christine, we don't ever speak truth to Christine, we don't ever speak truth to Christine, we don't ever speak truth to each other. And so, how can how can we each other. And so, how can how can we each other. And so, how can how can we really understand like the role of really understand like the role of really understand like the role of friendship and the goal of friendship friendship and the goal of friendship friendship and the goal of friendship from a biblical perspective and even from a biblical perspective and even from a biblical perspective and even looking at Jesus and how does his life looking at Jesus and how does his life looking at Jesus and how does his life give us like a glimpse into what the give us like a glimpse into what the give us like a glimpse into what the Lord intends for us as embodied Lord intends for us as embodied Lord intends for us as embodied creatures, as embodied people as we walk creatures, as embodied people as we walk creatures, as embodied people as we walk this life. Well, I think the goal of this life. Well, I think the goal of this life. Well, I think the goal of deep Christian friendship is our deep Christian friendship is our deep Christian friendship is our sanctification and that we would be a sanctification and that we would be a sanctification and that we would be a vessel that God uses to sanctify our vessel that God uses to sanctify our vessel that God uses to sanctify our friends. So, I think about one of my friends. So, I think about one of my friends. So, I think about one of my good friends that recently, you know, I good friends that recently, you know, I good friends that recently, you know, I I invited her I wanted to let her know I invited her I wanted to let her know I invited her I wanted to let her know this is how I think of you. I think of this is how I think of you. I think of this is how I think of you. I think of you as a deep friend and I want to you as a deep friend and I want to you as a deep friend and I want to invite you into speaking into my blind invite you into speaking into my blind invite you into speaking into my blind spots because there's very few people spots because there's very few people spots because there's very few people who will do that, especially as a who will do that, especially as a who will do that, especially as a pastor's wife, you know, and so I need pastor's wife, you know, and so I need pastor's wife, you know, and so I need you to do that. And I I think I mean you to do that. And I I think I mean you to do that. And I I think I mean Jesus didn't have blind spots. He didn't Jesus didn't have blind spots. He didn't Jesus didn't have blind spots. He didn't need the disciples to do that. But he

need the disciples to do that. But he need the disciples to do that. But he lived, moved, uh you know, did ministry lived, moved, uh you know, did ministry lived, moved, uh you know, did ministry with his friends to allow them to with his friends to allow them to with his friends to allow them to experience him and to be sanctified, be experience him and to be sanctified, be experience him and to be sanctified, be changed and transformed by being in changed and transformed by being in changed and transformed by being in community with him. And so I think that community with him. And so I think that community with him. And so I think that can be our goal, too, is just that we can be our goal, too, is just that we can be our goal, too, is just that we would be the type of community that would be the type of community that would be the type of community that would be changed and would help bring would be changed and would help bring would be changed and would help bring change to our friends. change to our friends. change to our friends. >> That's such a good point, Christine. I >> That's such a good point, Christine. I >> That's such a good point, Christine. I I've been studying the Gospel of Mark I've been studying the Gospel of Mark I've been studying the Gospel of Mark and one thing I've been looking at these and one thing I've been looking at these and one thing I've been looking at these four different little vignettes with four different little vignettes with four different little vignettes with Jesus as he interacts with people and Jesus as he interacts with people and Jesus as he interacts with people and the the first one is all of these crowds the the first one is all of these crowds the the first one is all of these crowds are gathered around him pressing on him are gathered around him pressing on him are gathered around him pressing on him and you know he serves them but he's and you know he serves them but he's and you know he serves them but he's also trying to get away with them but also trying to get away with them but also trying to get away with them but then the very next one I've never really then the very next one I've never really then the very next one I've never really related to that one is Jesus and the 12 related to that one is Jesus and the 12 related to that one is Jesus and the 12 and it says that they were to be with and it says that they were to be with and it says that they were to be with him and it's to me it's this very him and it's to me it's this very him and it's to me it's this very relational aspect back like I always relational aspect back like I always relational aspect back like I always thought yeah he called these people to thought yeah he called these people to thought yeah he called these people to be his followers his specific followers be his followers his specific followers be his followers his specific followers and it does say they were going to and it does say they were going to and it does say they were going to preach the gospel and do these things preach the gospel and do these things preach the gospel and do these things but the first thing it said was that but the first thing it said was that but the first thing it said was that they were to be with him. So in the they were to be with him. So in the they were to be with him. So in the midst of all these crowds following him midst of all these crowds following him midst of all these crowds following him and then the next vignette is actually and then the next vignette is actually and then the next vignette is actually the Pharisees who are opposing him. So the Pharisees who are opposing him. So the Pharisees who are opposing him. So he had these this opposition and he had he had these this opposition and he had he had these this opposition and he had these followers and then it even says these followers and then it even says these followers and then it even says this is also the passage where his this is also the passage where his this is also the passage where his family's coming in and his family is family's coming in and his family is family's coming in and his family is like he's lost his mind. So even his like he's lost his mind. So even his like he's lost his mind. So even his family's failing him. You know, the family's failing him. You know, the family's failing him. You know, the Pharisees are condemning him. The crowds Pharisees are condemning him. The crowds Pharisees are condemning him. The crowds are pressing in on him. And yet he chose are pressing in on him. And yet he chose are pressing in on him. And yet he chose the 12 to be with him. And to me, it's a

the 12 to be with him. And to me, it's a the 12 to be with him. And to me, it's a sweet picture of the God of all the sweet picture of the God of all the sweet picture of the God of all the universe, the triune God chose when he universe, the triune God chose when he universe, the triune God chose when he walked this earth to develop deep and walked this earth to develop deep and walked this earth to develop deep and intimate friendships. And we know at the intimate friendships. And we know at the intimate friendships. And we know at the end of Mark's gospel, every one of them end of Mark's gospel, every one of them end of Mark's gospel, every one of them deserted him. deserted him. deserted him. >> Yeah. But he still chose it. >> Yeah. But he still chose it. >> Yeah. But he still chose it. >> Yeah. And to me, that's such an example >> Yeah. And to me, that's such an example >> Yeah. And to me, that's such an example of just like he chose to get away and of just like he chose to get away and of just like he chose to get away and rest, he chose what was spiritually rest, he chose what was spiritually rest, he chose what was spiritually healthy. It's spiritually healthy to healthy. It's spiritually healthy to healthy. It's spiritually healthy to have friendships. So, we can sometimes have friendships. So, we can sometimes have friendships. So, we can sometimes look at the hard and say, "Yeah, I'm look at the hard and say, "Yeah, I'm look at the hard and say, "Yeah, I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to just not going to do that. I'm going to just not going to do that. I'm going to be lone ranger. I I'll go to church." be lone ranger. I I'll go to church." be lone ranger. I I'll go to church." But you can't trust people. You know, But you can't trust people. You know, But you can't trust people. You know, you can't trust people. What would you you can't trust people. What would you you can't trust people. What would you say to someone who's kind of in that say to someone who's kind of in that say to someone who's kind of in that bitter place? Maybe like, "Yeah, I try bitter place? Maybe like, "Yeah, I try bitter place? Maybe like, "Yeah, I try female friendships. They just, you know, female friendships. They just, you know, female friendships. They just, you know, they always there's, you know, gossip, they always there's, you know, gossip, they always there's, you know, gossip, there's betrayal, um they're fluffy there's betrayal, um they're fluffy there's betrayal, um they're fluffy conversations about things I don't want conversations about things I don't want conversations about things I don't want to talk about. We hear that a lot in to talk about. We hear that a lot in to talk about. We hear that a lot in women's ministry. Yeah. Oh, the women women's ministry. Yeah. Oh, the women women's ministry. Yeah. Oh, the women just, you know, no one's talking about just, you know, no one's talking about just, you know, no one's talking about anything interesting.

anything interesting. anything interesting. What do we say to that woman when we are What do we say to that woman when we are What do we say to that woman when we are that woman sometimes? And how do we move that woman sometimes? And how do we move that woman sometimes? And how do we move into those spaces and be the friend we into those spaces and be the friend we into those spaces and be the friend we want to be? want to be? want to be? >> Yes. Well, I think that hard is part of >> Yes. Well, I think that hard is part of >> Yes. Well, I think that hard is part of is part of it. And that God has allowed is part of it. And that God has allowed is part of it. And that God has allowed hard in all of life, including hard in all of life, including hard in all of life, including friendship. And for some reason, we hold friendship. And for some reason, we hold friendship. And for some reason, we hold friendship to be this. We think that friendship to be this. We think that friendship to be this. We think that it's kind of I always say it's our last it's kind of I always say it's our last it's kind of I always say it's our last dream to die as women because we think dream to die as women because we think dream to die as women because we think we can find this ideal relationship and we can find this ideal relationship and we can find this ideal relationship and we spend our whole life searching for we spend our whole life searching for we spend our whole life searching for it. But in fact, if we just embrace that it. But in fact, if we just embrace that it. But in fact, if we just embrace that God has written hard into it for a God has written hard into it for a God has written hard into it for a reason, for our growth and our reason, for our growth and our reason, for our growth and our sanctification, then I think we're more sanctification, then I think we're more sanctification, then I think we're more willing to continue to engage when we willing to continue to engage when we willing to continue to engage when we get hurt. So, I do want to acknowledge get hurt. So, I do want to acknowledge get hurt. So, I do want to acknowledge we all get hurt and we hurt people. And we all get hurt and we hurt people. And we all get hurt and we hurt people. And I've been hurt at times where I have I've been hurt at times where I have I've been hurt at times where I have needed to pull back a little and let God needed to pull back a little and let God needed to pull back a little and let God bring some healing in my life and to bring some healing in my life and to bring some healing in my life and to help give me some perspective. And I help give me some perspective. And I help give me some perspective. And I have had the thoughts of, is this worth have had the thoughts of, is this worth have had the thoughts of, is this worth it? Is this worth it for me to continue it? Is this worth it for me to continue it? Is this worth it for me to continue to put myself out there and to pursue to put myself out there and to pursue to put myself out there and to pursue and to uh make myself vulnerable to and to uh make myself vulnerable to and to uh make myself vulnerable to other people and to be heard again? And other people and to be heard again? And other people and to be heard again? And I've come to the conclusion that yes, it I've come to the conclusion that yes, it I've come to the conclusion that yes, it it is worth it. And some of it's kind of it is worth it. And some of it's kind of it is worth it. And some of it's kind of what you said, Melissa, that Jesus what you said, Melissa, that Jesus what you said, Melissa, that Jesus himself modeled this. This is something himself modeled this. This is something himself modeled this. This is something that is for our health and our good, that is for our health and our good, that is for our health and our good, even the hard parts. I have grown and even the hard parts. I have grown and even the hard parts. I have grown and been sanctified primarily through been sanctified primarily through been sanctified primarily through relationships. And hopefully God has relationships. And hopefully God has relationships. And hopefully God has used me and other people's lives for

used me and other people's lives for used me and other people's lives for that as well. This is what we are that as well. This is what we are that as well. This is what we are designed for. And so to continue to designed for. And so to continue to designed for. And so to continue to engage, there's a verse in Proverbs that engage, there's a verse in Proverbs that engage, there's a verse in Proverbs that says that basically a fool isolates says that basically a fool isolates says that basically a fool isolates themselves. That wise people seek themselves. That wise people seek themselves. That wise people seek community. And I think wise people also community. And I think wise people also community. And I think wise people also seek good community and they also they seek good community and they also they seek good community and they also they bring themselves uh well into it. bring themselves uh well into it. bring themselves uh well into it. Meaning I would say sometimes when we Meaning I would say sometimes when we Meaning I would say sometimes when we get frustrated with friendship and we get frustrated with friendship and we get frustrated with friendship and we want to disengage and isolate, it's want to disengage and isolate, it's want to disengage and isolate, it's because we're thinking about ourselves because we're thinking about ourselves because we're thinking about ourselves and we're thinking about what we want and we're thinking about what we want and we're thinking about what we want and how other people have disappointed and how other people have disappointed and how other people have disappointed us. And so a lot of times I need to when us. And so a lot of times I need to when us. And so a lot of times I need to when I have needed to pull back and to I have needed to pull back and to I have needed to pull back and to reorient it's to remember that I am not reorient it's to remember that I am not reorient it's to remember that I am not that as a believer imitating how Jesus that as a believer imitating how Jesus that as a believer imitating how Jesus loves us that he came toward us. He loves us that he came toward us. He loves us that he came toward us. He pursued me with grace and mercy and pursued me with grace and mercy and pursued me with grace and mercy and truth that I am to consider more often truth that I am to consider more often truth that I am to consider more often how I can engage people. How can I be a how I can engage people. How can I be a how I can engage people. How can I be a blessing?

blessing? blessing? everyone's been hurt. So, how can I be a everyone's been hurt. So, how can I be a everyone's been hurt. So, how can I be a good friend to people? How can I bring good friend to people? How can I bring good friend to people? How can I bring in the outsider? Uh the people who are, in the outsider? Uh the people who are, in the outsider? Uh the people who are, as you're saying, the crowd standing by as you're saying, the crowd standing by as you're saying, the crowd standing by that Jesus wants to come in. I want to that Jesus wants to come in. I want to that Jesus wants to come in. I want to be that person that sees that person. be that person that sees that person. be that person that sees that person. And so, I have found that there's much And so, I have found that there's much And so, I have found that there's much more joy in relationships when I have more joy in relationships when I have more joy in relationships when I have the perspective of how can I be a the perspective of how can I be a the perspective of how can I be a blessing rather than well, I'm blessing rather than well, I'm blessing rather than well, I'm disappointed. disappointed. disappointed. >> I mean, I I get disappointed a lot. I >> I mean, I I get disappointed a lot. I >> I mean, I I get disappointed a lot. I think we all do. And so it's a it's a a think we all do. And so it's a it's a a think we all do. And so it's a it's a a matter of just acknowledging that and matter of just acknowledging that and matter of just acknowledging that and saying this is how it is, but we're saying this is how it is, but we're saying this is how it is, but we're going to continue to love as Jesus has going to continue to love as Jesus has going to continue to love as Jesus has loved us. I found joy in that. And and I loved us. I found joy in that. And and I loved us. I found joy in that. And and I do think it's worth it on the other side do think it's worth it on the other side do think it's worth it on the other side working to build relationships, working working to build relationships, working working to build relationships, working meaning working through conflict or meaning working through conflict or meaning working through conflict or bearing with somebody who's suffering, a bearing with somebody who's suffering, a bearing with somebody who's suffering, a friend who has nothing to give at for a friend who has nothing to give at for a friend who has nothing to give at for a season that we want to bear with them. season that we want to bear with them. season that we want to bear with them. There's so much fruit and richness on There's so much fruit and richness on There's so much fruit and richness on the other side of that. And at my age, the other side of that. And at my age, the other side of that. And at my age, I've experienced that. And so I do think I've experienced that. And so I do think I've experienced that. And so I do think that that is worth it for that reason as that that is worth it for that reason as that that is worth it for that reason as well.

well. well. >> I hear you saying like keep the long >> I hear you saying like keep the long >> I hear you saying like keep the long view in mind. Um work to have a biblical view in mind. Um work to have a biblical view in mind. Um work to have a biblical understanding of friendship, your own understanding of friendship, your own understanding of friendship, your own need for friendship. That as need for friendship. That as need for friendship. That as I mean Jesus needed friends. We I mean Jesus needed friends. We I mean Jesus needed friends. We certainly you know it is not good for certainly you know it is not good for certainly you know it is not good for man to be alone. And we actually need man to be alone. And we actually need man to be alone. And we actually need people around us speaking into our lives people around us speaking into our lives people around us speaking into our lives and doing community together because it and doing community together because it and doing community together because it is it is good for us. is life-giving. It is it is good for us. is life-giving. It is it is good for us. is life-giving. It is sanctifying. It is all these things. is sanctifying. It is all these things. is sanctifying. It is all these things. Um, and so for the woman who who maybe Um, and so for the woman who who maybe Um, and so for the woman who who maybe is jaded and and is like, I actually is jaded and and is like, I actually is jaded and and is like, I actually just prefer to be alone. Or to the woman just prefer to be alone. Or to the woman just prefer to be alone. Or to the woman who is super frustrated with all of her who is super frustrated with all of her who is super frustrated with all of her friendships, I hear you saying, every friendships, I hear you saying, every friendships, I hear you saying, every friendship will frustrate us because and friendship will frustrate us because and friendship will frustrate us because and we frustrate all of our friends. And so we frustrate all of our friends. And so we frustrate all of our friends. And so there's this long view that I hear you there's this long view that I hear you there's this long view that I hear you calling women to of both a biblical calling women to of both a biblical calling women to of both a biblical understanding, a biblical foundation, understanding, a biblical foundation, understanding, a biblical foundation, but then this long view understanding of but then this long view understanding of but then this long view understanding of yeah, we bear with one another and as yeah, we bear with one another and as yeah, we bear with one another and as they bear with us and and we do this, we they bear with us and and we do this, we they bear with us and and we do this, we pursue health and wholeness and we pursue health and wholeness and we pursue health and wholeness and we pursue Christ together, right?

pursue Christ together, right? pursue Christ together, right? ultimately. Um, well, I want to get ultimately. Um, well, I want to get ultimately. Um, well, I want to get really practical then because I think really practical then because I think really practical then because I think we've all been in this situation where we've all been in this situation where we've all been in this situation where we're the new girl or we're trying we're the new girl or we're trying we're the new girl or we're trying something new and you know the scenario something new and you know the scenario something new and you know the scenario that comes to my mind is walking into a that comes to my mind is walking into a that comes to my mind is walking into a new room. new room. new room. >> Yes. or a women's Bible study because I >> Yes. or a women's Bible study because I >> Yes. or a women's Bible study because I think we would all advocate like, hey, think we would all advocate like, hey, think we would all advocate like, hey, this is good to build these kind of this is good to build these kind of this is good to build these kind of friendships within your local church. friendships within your local church. friendships within your local church. And showing up at women's Bible study, And showing up at women's Bible study, And showing up at women's Bible study, even if they're not studying the book even if they're not studying the book even if they're not studying the book you want to study, even if they don't, you want to study, even if they don't, you want to study, even if they don't, you know, do the study in the order that you know, do the study in the order that you know, do the study in the order that you want or whatever, you know, we all you want or whatever, you know, we all you want or whatever, you know, we all have little things that we wish our have little things that we wish our have little things that we wish our local churches might do differently, but local churches might do differently, but local churches might do differently, but you show up and you walk into that room you show up and you walk into that room you show up and you walk into that room and it can be terrifying. I mean, I've and it can be terrifying. I mean, I've and it can be terrifying. I mean, I've been there. Maybe you don't know a soul. been there. Maybe you don't know a soul. been there. Maybe you don't know a soul. Maybe you just feel really like this is Maybe you just feel really like this is Maybe you just feel really like this is going to be a place of great going to be a place of great going to be a place of great vulnerability for you. Maybe everybody vulnerability for you. Maybe everybody vulnerability for you. Maybe everybody already knows each other. They've been already knows each other. They've been already knows each other. They've been doing life together for, you know, 5 doing life together for, you know, 5 doing life together for, you know, 5 years. And so, years. And so, years. And so, a lot of us are either tempted not to go a lot of us are either tempted not to go a lot of us are either tempted not to go or just to kind of stay very protected.

or just to kind of stay very protected. or just to kind of stay very protected. So, what is your advice? How can we show So, what is your advice? How can we show So, what is your advice? How can we show up in these spaces with this true and up in these spaces with this true and up in these spaces with this true and deep and honest longing for friendships deep and honest longing for friendships deep and honest longing for friendships >> um when it's hard? >> um when it's hard? >> um when it's hard? >> Yeah. Well, that's a great question and >> Yeah. Well, that's a great question and >> Yeah. Well, that's a great question and I'm an introvert, so I can understand I'm an introvert, so I can understand I'm an introvert, so I can understand the I always kind of have to gear up the I always kind of have to gear up the I always kind of have to gear up when I'm going into some sort of group when I'm going into some sort of group when I'm going into some sort of group situation. Uh, what I found and what I situation. Uh, what I found and what I situation. Uh, what I found and what I would say to women is don't just go would say to women is don't just go would say to women is don't just go once. Commit to going every week. Let's once. Commit to going every week. Let's once. Commit to going every week. Let's say it's a 12-week Bible study, go every say it's a 12-week Bible study, go every say it's a 12-week Bible study, go every week and show up and share something week and show up and share something week and show up and share something with your small group or that kind of with your small group or that kind of with your small group or that kind of thing. But you're talking about the very thing. But you're talking about the very thing. But you're talking about the very first time. And uh I would say that to first time. And uh I would say that to first time. And uh I would say that to me sometimes just even acknowledging to me sometimes just even acknowledging to me sometimes just even acknowledging to myself I feel awkward right now this is myself I feel awkward right now this is myself I feel awkward right now this is awkward. What am I going to do with awkward. What am I going to do with awkward. What am I going to do with this? this? this? >> And I would say turn and watch the door >> And I would say turn and watch the door >> And I would say turn and watch the door for the next person who comes in who is for the next person who comes in who is for the next person who comes in who is new. And you go toward them and say hi new. And you go toward them and say hi new. And you go toward them and say hi I'm Christine. I'm new. I've never been I'm Christine. I'm new. I've never been I'm Christine. I'm new. I've never been here. Have you been here before? You here. Have you been here before? You here. Have you been here before? You know just something to get the know just something to get the know just something to get the conversation rolling. So I would say conversation rolling. So I would say conversation rolling. So I would say focus on a onetoone conversation. And focus on a onetoone conversation. And focus on a onetoone conversation. And don't try to go up to the group cuz that don't try to go up to the group cuz that don't try to go up to the group cuz that will make you feel even more awkward.

will make you feel even more awkward. will make you feel even more awkward. But you be the one to to say, "I know I But you be the one to to say, "I know I But you be the one to to say, "I know I feel this way and so there's someone feel this way and so there's someone feel this way and so there's someone else in this room that feels this way." else in this room that feels this way." else in this room that feels this way." Probably a lot of people. And so how can Probably a lot of people. And so how can Probably a lot of people. And so how can I be a blessing to the next person who I be a blessing to the next person who I be a blessing to the next person who comes in the door who looks like they comes in the door who looks like they comes in the door who looks like they don't know what's going on. So look for don't know what's going on. So look for don't know what's going on. So look for look for the outsider and you be the one look for the outsider and you be the one look for the outsider and you be the one to welcome them even though you're new to welcome them even though you're new to welcome them even though you're new too, you know, and you want to be too, you know, and you want to be too, you know, and you want to be welcomed, but just to get the ball welcomed, but just to get the ball welcomed, but just to get the ball rolling and get over the awkwardness. I rolling and get over the awkwardness. I rolling and get over the awkwardness. I think sometimes letting it sit there, think sometimes letting it sit there, think sometimes letting it sit there, like if I'm just sitting in it, it's like if I'm just sitting in it, it's like if I'm just sitting in it, it's even worse and then I get in my head. even worse and then I get in my head. even worse and then I get in my head. And so I just try to do something right And so I just try to do something right And so I just try to do something right away um to get over that feeling of away um to get over that feeling of away um to get over that feeling of awkwardness. awkwardness. awkwardness. >> I love what you said about you being you >> I love what you said about you being you >> I love what you said about you being you looking cuz what we're doing is looking looking cuz what we're doing is looking looking cuz what we're doing is looking inward like everyone's looking at me. inward like everyone's looking at me. inward like everyone's looking at me. They all see that I'm standing here They all see that I'm standing here They all see that I'm standing here awkwardly by myself and instead you awkwardly by myself and instead you awkwardly by myself and instead you switch the perspective and say you look switch the perspective and say you look switch the perspective and say you look around and maybe there's another girl around and maybe there's another girl around and maybe there's another girl standing awkwardly in the corner that standing awkwardly in the corner that standing awkwardly in the corner that you could go talk to. And the one thing you could go talk to. And the one thing you could go talk to. And the one thing I try to do with my kids is prep them I try to do with my kids is prep them I try to do with my kids is prep them with three questions. Like my daughter with three questions. Like my daughter with three questions. Like my daughter just went to orientation and I said have just went to orientation and I said have just went to orientation and I said have three questions that you have in your three questions that you have in your three questions that you have in your register. Oh, where are you from? Uh register. Oh, where are you from? Uh register. Oh, where are you from? Uh what's your major going to be? What dorm what's your major going to be? What dorm what's your major going to be? What dorm are you living? I gave her three are you living? I gave her three are you living? I gave her three questions to so just to set her at ease questions to so just to set her at ease questions to so just to set her at ease so she could engage with others and I so she could engage with others and I so she could engage with others and I think if you're walking into that space think if you're walking into that space think if you're walking into that space even thinking before you go in like my even thinking before you go in like my even thinking before you go in like my questions in that space are how long questions in that space are how long questions in that space are how long have you been at this church you know I have you been at this church you know I have you been at this church you know I I'll say something like that have you I'll say something like that have you I'll say something like that have you done this Bible study before um where do

done this Bible study before um where do done this Bible study before um where do you find the coffee I don't know like you find the coffee I don't know like you find the coffee I don't know like just a practical thing because people just a practical thing because people just a practical thing because people love to be like I can show her where to love to be like I can show her where to love to be like I can show her where to get the coffee you know that just going get the coffee you know that just going get the coffee you know that just going in preparing. So like I think preparing in preparing. So like I think preparing in preparing. So like I think preparing our hearts even to just know how to get our hearts even to just know how to get our hearts even to just know how to get that first step in the door can be so that first step in the door can be so that first step in the door can be so helpful especially in new situations and helpful especially in new situations and helpful especially in new situations and we've all been in new situations where we've all been in new situations where we've all been in new situations where we feel like we're back in middle we feel like we're back in middle we feel like we're back in middle school, we're holding our tray and we school, we're holding our tray and we school, we're holding our tray and we don't know where to set. And so another don't know where to set. And so another don't know where to set. And so another thing I tell my kids a lot, especially thing I tell my kids a lot, especially thing I tell my kids a lot, especially daughters, I feel like this my son daughters, I feel like this my son daughters, I feel like this my son doesn't seem to care. Um but my doesn't seem to care. Um but my doesn't seem to care. Um but my daughters do. I'm like we're all just daughters do. I'm like we're all just daughters do. I'm like we're all just people. Everyone in the room is looking people. Everyone in the room is looking people. Everyone in the room is looking to belong somewhere and everyone feels to belong somewhere and everyone feels to belong somewhere and everyone feels like they don't quite fit and that helps like they don't quite fit and that helps like they don't quite fit and that helps immensely for me. Um, thank you so much immensely for me. Um, thank you so much immensely for me. Um, thank you so much for this conversation, Christine. I for this conversation, Christine. I for this conversation, Christine. I think we're going to go to a quick think we're going to go to a quick think we're going to go to a quick break, but we're going to come back and break, but we're going to come back and break, but we're going to come back and we're going to talk more about we're going to talk more about we're going to talk more about friendship when we get back. Well, friendship when we get back. Well, friendship when we get back. Well, welcome back. We're excited to continue welcome back. We're excited to continue welcome back. We're excited to continue this conversation about friendships and this conversation about friendships and this conversation about friendships and we're just acknowledging the fact that we're just acknowledging the fact that we're just acknowledging the fact that we're all in very different places with we're all in very different places with we're all in very different places with this and really we've all probably this and really we've all probably this and really we've all probably experienced different angles of just the experienced different angles of just the experienced different angles of just the difficulty, the frustration, the difficulty, the frustration, the difficulty, the frustration, the hardship. You know, we've been we've all hardship. You know, we've been we've all hardship. You know, we've been we've all acknowledged been in seasons where we've acknowledged been in seasons where we've acknowledged been in seasons where we've been really lonely and and that a lot of been really lonely and and that a lot of been really lonely and and that a lot of times can be tied to transitions. not times can be tied to transitions. not times can be tied to transitions. not just transitions into adulthood, but just transitions into adulthood, but just transitions into adulthood, but also moving and and transitions into new also moving and and transitions into new also moving and and transitions into new seasons of life, a new job or or seasons of life, a new job or or seasons of life, a new job or or children leaving the home or all these children leaving the home or all these children leaving the home or all these all these times in life where it just

all these times in life where it just all these times in life where it just becomes a little bit um more difficult. becomes a little bit um more difficult. becomes a little bit um more difficult. And then we're also acknowledging that And then we're also acknowledging that And then we're also acknowledging that there's times that we're just so there's times that we're just so there's times that we're just so frustrated and maybe been hurt and we frustrated and maybe been hurt and we frustrated and maybe been hurt and we just want to kind of back away from from just want to kind of back away from from just want to kind of back away from from all of that. And then there's also the all of that. And then there's also the all of that. And then there's also the time when we've lost friends. um either time when we've lost friends. um either time when we've lost friends. um either they have moved away, we have moved they have moved away, we have moved they have moved away, we have moved away, we've had friends that have died. away, we've had friends that have died. away, we've had friends that have died. Um and so we've lost friends in a Um and so we've lost friends in a Um and so we've lost friends in a variety of ways. And I think after you variety of ways. And I think after you variety of ways. And I think after you lose a close friend, whether that is to lose a close friend, whether that is to lose a close friend, whether that is to death or even just to a cross-country death or even just to a cross-country death or even just to a cross-country move, it can be really hard to kind of move, it can be really hard to kind of move, it can be really hard to kind of get back in the game and think, okay, I get back in the game and think, okay, I get back in the game and think, okay, I I kind of lost this person that was just I kind of lost this person that was just I kind of lost this person that was just I had invested so much time and energy I had invested so much time and energy I had invested so much time and energy in. And so how can we overcome like that in. And so how can we overcome like that in. And so how can we overcome like that particular reluctance? It's not particular reluctance? It's not particular reluctance? It's not bitterness, it's sadness that keeps us bitterness, it's sadness that keeps us bitterness, it's sadness that keeps us from from wanting to pursue new from from wanting to pursue new from from wanting to pursue new friendships. friendships. friendships. >> Well, I just moved recently a couple >> Well, I just moved recently a couple >> Well, I just moved recently a couple years ago across the country and started years ago across the country and started years ago across the country and started over. And so I experienced this and I over. And so I experienced this and I over. And so I experienced this and I think one thing that it did was good think one thing that it did was good think one thing that it did was good because it showed me the friendships because it showed me the friendships because it showed me the friendships that I wanted to maintain and that I was that I wanted to maintain and that I was that I wanted to maintain and that I was going to make effort to continue even going to make effort to continue even going to make effort to continue even though we were a long way away. But it though we were a long way away. But it though we were a long way away. But it did create in me a sense of longing. And did create in me a sense of longing. And did create in me a sense of longing. And I and to me, I just want to say longing.

I and to me, I just want to say longing. I and to me, I just want to say longing. I think we all feel a sense of longing I think we all feel a sense of longing I think we all feel a sense of longing when it comes to community and when it comes to community and when it comes to community and friendship. And that to me is a good friendship. And that to me is a good friendship. And that to me is a good thing because it makes me long. What thing because it makes me long. What thing because it makes me long. What we're doing is we're longing for perfect we're doing is we're longing for perfect we're doing is we're longing for perfect community in heaven. And so a lot of community in heaven. And so a lot of community in heaven. And so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll let that times what I'll do is I'll let that times what I'll do is I'll let that sadness kind of I recognize it as sadness kind of I recognize it as sadness kind of I recognize it as longing and what I'm longing for is longing and what I'm longing for is longing and what I'm longing for is really good. That's a good thing. And really good. That's a good thing. And really good. That's a good thing. And let me just my imagin my imagination, my let me just my imagin my imagination, my let me just my imagin my imagination, my sanctified imagination go wild thinking sanctified imagination go wild thinking sanctified imagination go wild thinking about what it will be like when we are about what it will be like when we are about what it will be like when we are no longer separated in heaven. no longer separated in heaven. no longer separated in heaven. >> But we're not there yet. And so how can >> But we're not there yet. And so how can >> But we're not there yet. And so how can I pursue this is a good longing. So what I pursue this is a good longing. So what I pursue this is a good longing. So what can I do to continue to to just to can I do to continue to to just to can I do to continue to to just to pursue to start over? And for me that pursue to start over? And for me that pursue to start over? And for me that was like hey I really enjoyed talking to was like hey I really enjoyed talking to was like hey I really enjoyed talking to this woman. It's almost like asking this woman. It's almost like asking this woman. It's almost like asking somebody out on a date like can I have somebody out on a date like can I have somebody out on a date like can I have your number? like would you like to go your number? like would you like to go your number? like would you like to go get coffee some sometime? And um and I get coffee some sometime? And um and I get coffee some sometime? And um and I think that's a part of it for me is is think that's a part of it for me is is think that's a part of it for me is is is just acknowledging the longing and is just acknowledging the longing and is just acknowledging the longing and that that's a really good thing and that that's a really good thing and that that's a really good thing and letting it uh letting me kind of I even letting it uh letting me kind of I even letting it uh letting me kind of I even went back to some of those friends that went back to some of those friends that went back to some of those friends that I moved away from and said I really I moved away from and said I really I moved away from and said I really value your friendship so let's continue value your friendship so let's continue value your friendship so let's continue in what ways we can. [snorts] Um but but in what ways we can. [snorts] Um but but in what ways we can. [snorts] Um but but starting over and and knowing that that starting over and and knowing that that starting over and and knowing that that the gift that that I had there maybe the gift that that I had there maybe the gift that that I had there maybe there's a gift here and so who who are there's a gift here and so who who are there's a gift here and so who who are those people that God's pointing out to those people that God's pointing out to those people that God's pointing out to me? That's so good. And I think for the me? That's so good. And I think for the me? That's so good. And I think for the woman listening that um has hasn't woman listening that um has hasn't woman listening that um has hasn't experienced that or hasn't experienced experienced that or hasn't experienced experienced that or hasn't experienced it in a long time, she's got her friend it in a long time, she's got her friend it in a long time, she's got her friend group, she's got her people, you know, group, she's got her people, you know, group, she's got her people, you know, you're like, I'm so set. Like, we're so

you're like, I'm so set. Like, we're so you're like, I'm so set. Like, we're so close. We're so tight. We do life close. We're so tight. We do life close. We're so tight. We do life together. And you know what I hope that together. And you know what I hope that together. And you know what I hope that that you're hearing in this is that that you're hearing in this is that that you're hearing in this is that there are women coming in and out of there are women coming in and out of there are women coming in and out of your community that are experiencing the your community that are experiencing the your community that are experiencing the desire for friendship but may look desire for friendship but may look desire for friendship but may look around and not see a place. And so how around and not see a place. And so how around and not see a place. And so how you know both of you I know have a great you know both of you I know have a great you know both of you I know have a great answer to this or great wisdom in answer to this or great wisdom in answer to this or great wisdom in helping us understand if you're that helping us understand if you're that helping us understand if you're that person if you think you have more than person if you think you have more than person if you think you have more than enough friends. Um, how do you push enough friends. Um, how do you push enough friends. Um, how do you push against that and be a welcoming presence against that and be a welcoming presence against that and be a welcoming presence to the new girl or or the one that you to the new girl or or the one that you to the new girl or or the one that you might need to just reach out to? might need to just reach out to? might need to just reach out to? >> I think if you're good at being what I >> I think if you're good at being what I >> I think if you're good at being what I call a there you are person like looking call a there you are person like looking call a there you are person like looking for other people including them. There for other people including them. There for other people including them. There are times where I have felt or I've seen are times where I have felt or I've seen are times where I have felt or I've seen people around me that they feel people around me that they feel people around me that they feel overwhelmed with the number of overwhelmed with the number of overwhelmed with the number of relationships that they have. So I think relationships that they have. So I think relationships that they have. So I think that's another sometimes a hard name that's another sometimes a hard name that's another sometimes a hard name like how do I I cannot be good friends like how do I I cannot be good friends like how do I I cannot be good friends with everyone and so what I would say to with everyone and so what I would say to with everyone and so what I would say to women like that first if you feel a women like that first if you feel a women like that first if you feel a sense of territorialism like I I want to sense of territorialism like I I want to sense of territorialism like I I want to protect this group and no one can come protect this group and no one can come protect this group and no one can come in I would check I would check that in I would check I would check that in I would check I would check that because I don't think that that's what because I don't think that that's what because I don't think that that's what the Bible speaks of when he when the the the Bible speaks of when he when the the the Bible speaks of when he when the the Bible speaks of church or community. I Bible speaks of church or community. I Bible speaks of church or community. I think there should be a sense of think there should be a sense of think there should be a sense of movement and activity people in and movement and activity people in and movement and activity people in and people out. we're sending people, we're people out. we're sending people, we're people out. we're sending people, we're receiving. And so I I I would say to receiving. And so I I I would say to receiving. And so I I I would say to check that there may be a sense of um check that there may be a sense of um check that there may be a sense of um idolatry attached to some of that. Um

idolatry attached to some of that. Um idolatry attached to some of that. Um looking for that perfection that only looking for that perfection that only looking for that perfection that only can come later. Um and so I would say can come later. Um and so I would say can come later. Um and so I would say that, but also if you're a person that's that, but also if you're a person that's that, but also if you're a person that's like there's a lot of people in my life like there's a lot of people in my life like there's a lot of people in my life and I sometimes feel overwhelmed by and I sometimes feel overwhelmed by and I sometimes feel overwhelmed by that. I would say to think of yourself that. I would say to think of yourself that. I would say to think of yourself instead of a culde-sac, think of instead of a culde-sac, think of instead of a culde-sac, think of yourself as like an intersection. like yourself as like an intersection. like yourself as like an intersection. like how can I intersect people? So maybe how can I intersect people? So maybe how can I intersect people? So maybe there's someone that's new. I can't take there's someone that's new. I can't take there's someone that's new. I can't take them on necessar that sounds bad but you them on necessar that sounds bad but you them on necessar that sounds bad but you know I may not have the capacity for know I may not have the capacity for know I may not have the capacity for deep friendship with them but hey I know deep friendship with them but hey I know deep friendship with them but hey I know somebody who would be a good fit for somebody who would be a good fit for somebody who would be a good fit for them. Let me let me bring that person them. Let me let me bring that person them. Let me let me bring that person in, include that person and connect them in, include that person and connect them in, include that person and connect them specifically with another woman that I specifically with another woman that I specifically with another woman that I think would be a good way, maybe a think would be a good way, maybe a think would be a good way, maybe a mentor or they have something in common. mentor or they have something in common. mentor or they have something in common. But using the influence that I have with But using the influence that I have with But using the influence that I have with all of these relationships to create all of these relationships to create all of these relationships to create other connections that are really, it's other connections that are really, it's other connections that are really, it's almost like you're releasing them. You almost like you're releasing them. You almost like you're releasing them. You know, you're releasing them. You're know, you're releasing them. You're know, you're releasing them. You're still there and you have a relationship, still there and you have a relationship, still there and you have a relationship, but you're not the sole responsible.

but you're not the sole responsible. but you're not the sole responsible. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? Does that make sense? >> Yes. I love that, too, because it it >> Yes. I love that, too, because it it >> Yes. I love that, too, because it it also says, I don't have to be the center also says, I don't have to be the center also says, I don't have to be the center of it, of it, of it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Like sometimes people are uncomfortable >> Like sometimes people are uncomfortable >> Like sometimes people are uncomfortable with that because they want everyone with that because they want everyone with that because they want everyone they're afraid for their friends to be they're afraid for their friends to be they're afraid for their friends to be friends because then maybe they'll be friends because then maybe they'll be friends because then maybe they'll be >> better friends. >> better friends. >> better friends. >> Yeah. Exactly. Versus saying, "No, we're >> Yeah. Exactly. Versus saying, "No, we're >> Yeah. Exactly. Versus saying, "No, we're friends. I love seeing you be friends." friends. I love seeing you be friends." friends. I love seeing you be friends." And that's a that's actually a good a And that's a that's actually a good a And that's a that's actually a good a good thing. Um, one thing I know that good thing. Um, one thing I know that good thing. Um, one thing I know that friendship has done in my own life is friendship has done in my own life is friendship has done in my own life is really helped grow me into a better per really helped grow me into a better per really helped grow me into a better per like you I I see the gifts in other like you I I see the gifts in other like you I I see the gifts in other people and I'm like, "Oh, wow. I want to people and I'm like, "Oh, wow. I want to people and I'm like, "Oh, wow. I want to be more like that." Now, sometimes it be more like that." Now, sometimes it be more like that." Now, sometimes it can overwhelm me. Um, I was with a group can overwhelm me. Um, I was with a group can overwhelm me. Um, I was with a group of friends actually this past weekend of friends actually this past weekend of friends actually this past weekend and I was like, "Oh, wow. This one and I was like, "Oh, wow. This one and I was like, "Oh, wow. This one friend is so amazing at this." And this friend is so amazing at this." And this friend is so amazing at this." And this other friend is so good at this in ways other friend is so good at this in ways other friend is so good at this in ways I am not good. Yeah. I mean she is just I am not good. Yeah. I mean she is just I am not good. Yeah. I mean she is just like fun. I was watching her as we were like fun. I was watching her as we were like fun. I was watching her as we were going to different places. She talks to going to different places. She talks to going to different places. She talks to everyone everywhere she goes and I was everyone everywhere she goes and I was everyone everywhere she goes and I was like man I am not good at that. And the like man I am not good at that. And the like man I am not good at that. And the other like takes people into her home on other like takes people into her home on other like takes people into her home on a regular basis and I mean loves a regular basis and I mean loves a regular basis and I mean loves really loves the hard people well you really loves the hard people well you really loves the hard people well you know and another is just empathetic.

know and another is just empathetic. know and another is just empathetic. she's going to be the one to cry with she's going to be the one to cry with she's going to be the one to cry with you and all this. And so I think there's you and all this. And so I think there's you and all this. And so I think there's this right thing. I'm like, "Oh, um, this right thing. I'm like, "Oh, um, this right thing. I'm like, "Oh, um, you know, appreciating our friends and you know, appreciating our friends and you know, appreciating our friends and learning to grow from them, but also learning to grow from them, but also learning to grow from them, but also accepting our own limitations in accepting our own limitations in accepting our own limitations in friendship." Like I don't I think it can friendship." Like I don't I think it can friendship." Like I don't I think it can be a temptation to become just like our be a temptation to become just like our be a temptation to become just like our friends. Like, oh, I've got to do friends. Like, oh, I've got to do friends. Like, oh, I've got to do exactly what this friend's doing or that exactly what this friend's doing or that exactly what this friend's doing or that friend's doing or I'm not in some ways friend's doing or I'm not in some ways friend's doing or I'm not in some ways right. So how how do we strike that right. So how how do we strike that right. So how how do we strike that balance like in friendship learning from balance like in friendship learning from balance like in friendship learning from people and growing from people but also people and growing from people but also people and growing from people but also acknowledging hey you might be a finger acknowledging hey you might be a finger acknowledging hey you might be a finger and I might be a toe and that's okay and I might be a toe and that's okay and I might be a toe and that's okay [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] and rejoicing in it. and rejoicing in it. and rejoicing in it. >> Yes. Exactly. I I think that I was >> Yes. Exactly. I I think that I was >> Yes. Exactly. I I think that I was thinking about this the other day. I thinking about this the other day. I thinking about this the other day. I don't think that we we see oursel it's don't think that we we see oursel it's don't think that we we see oursel it's hard to see ourselves right and so for a hard to see ourselves right and so for a hard to see ourselves right and so for a friend to say hey I see this in you and friend to say hey I see this in you and friend to say hey I see this in you and God is using that a lot of times I mean God is using that a lot of times I mean God is using that a lot of times I mean when that happens to me I'm like really when that happens to me I'm like really when that happens to me I'm like really I I can't necessarily see that and so I I can't necessarily see that and so I I can't necessarily see that and so thank you that's so encouraging and I thank you that's so encouraging and I thank you that's so encouraging and I want to continue to run that race that want to continue to run that race that want to continue to run that race that God set before me and so I think I would God set before me and so I think I would God set before me and so I think I would say when we notice those things to say say when we notice those things to say say when we notice those things to say those things to our friends and to those things to our friends and to those things to our friends and to encourage Um because I think sometimes encourage Um because I think sometimes encourage Um because I think sometimes what I do the same thing where I turn it what I do the same thing where I turn it what I do the same thing where I turn it inward and I think oh well I'm not like inward and I think oh well I'm not like inward and I think oh well I'm not like that. Should I be like that? And it's that. Should I be like that? And it's that. Should I be like that? And it's not a Holy Spirit conviction. It's more not a Holy Spirit conviction. It's more not a Holy Spirit conviction. It's more a Christine conviction of I'm trying to a Christine conviction of I'm trying to a Christine conviction of I'm trying to be all things to all people or I need to be all things to all people or I need to be all things to all people or I need to be this perfect person or whatever. But

be this perfect person or whatever. But be this perfect person or whatever. But maybe just let it be a God nudging you maybe just let it be a God nudging you maybe just let it be a God nudging you to encourage a friend. And that's what to encourage a friend. And that's what to encourage a friend. And that's what what we're called to do. I love all the what we're called to do. I love all the what we're called to do. I love all the one anothers in scripture and and and one anothers in scripture and and and one anothers in scripture and and and one of them is to encourage one another one of them is to encourage one another one of them is to encourage one another so that we can continue to run this race so that we can continue to run this race so that we can continue to run this race together toward that finish line uh in together toward that finish line uh in together toward that finish line uh in heaven with Jesus. heaven with Jesus. heaven with Jesus. >> I love that. I love I'm going back to >> I love that. I love I'm going back to >> I love that. I love I'm going back to something you said about being an something you said about being an something you said about being an intersection, not a culde-sac. I think intersection, not a culde-sac. I think intersection, not a culde-sac. I think that is such a beautiful word picture. that is such a beautiful word picture. that is such a beautiful word picture. And one reason I like it besides And one reason I like it besides And one reason I like it besides everything you said about it is we've everything you said about it is we've everything you said about it is we've talked about this before. this idea that talked about this before. this idea that talked about this before. this idea that if your friend group becomes very if your friend group becomes very if your friend group becomes very stagnant and you start um kind of stagnant and you start um kind of stagnant and you start um kind of idolizing like the that group as a as a idolizing like the that group as a as a idolizing like the that group as a as a whole that is not going to shift or whole that is not going to shift or whole that is not going to shift or morph in any way then that's a real red morph in any way then that's a real red morph in any way then that's a real red flag. uh especially the smaller the flag. uh especially the smaller the flag. uh especially the smaller the group the more the red flag that it is group the more the red flag that it is group the more the red flag that it is right it becomes exclusive and I just right it becomes exclusive and I just right it becomes exclusive and I just don't think that those exclusive don't think that those exclusive don't think that those exclusive friendships or friend groups are healthy friendships or friend groups are healthy friendships or friend groups are healthy I think that we need to kind of what you I think that we need to kind of what you I think that we need to kind of what you were even saying Melissa like rejoice in were even saying Melissa like rejoice in were even saying Melissa like rejoice in each other's friendships I remember way each other's friendships I remember way each other's friendships I remember way back in the day I had a friend who back in the day I had a friend who back in the day I had a friend who introduced me as her no she introduced introduced me as her no she introduced introduced me as her no she introduced my friend as her best friend's best my friend as her best friend's best my friend as her best friend's best friend so she was just like friend so she was just like friend so she was just like acknowledging that her best friend had a acknowledging that her best friend had a acknowledging that her best friend had a best friend that wasn't her. It was kind best friend that wasn't her. It was kind best friend that wasn't her. It was kind of this and I was kind of like that's of this and I was kind of like that's of this and I was kind of like that's the healthiest thing I've ever heard, the healthiest thing I've ever heard, the healthiest thing I've ever heard, you know, like to be okay with that. It you know, like to be okay with that. It you know, like to be okay with that. It was really um but even that even that was really um but even that even that was really um but even that even that phrase best friend there's a superlative phrase best friend there's a superlative phrase best friend there's a superlative um exclusiveness to it that um you know

um exclusiveness to it that um you know um exclusiveness to it that um you know I think it's healthy to even be saying I think it's healthy to even be saying I think it's healthy to even be saying things like one of my best friends, one things like one of my best friends, one things like one of my best friends, one of my closest friends, one of my dearest of my closest friends, one of my dearest of my closest friends, one of my dearest friends, but that one of just puts that friends, but that one of just puts that friends, but that one of just puts that caveat on it that reminds you and the caveat on it that reminds you and the caveat on it that reminds you and the other person and it reminds the two of other person and it reminds the two of other person and it reminds the two of you like, okay, this isn't exclusive, you like, okay, this isn't exclusive, you like, okay, this isn't exclusive, but also it tells other people, oh, but also it tells other people, oh, but also it tells other people, oh, there's room for more. She's just one of there's room for more. She's just one of there's room for more. She's just one of a few. And I do think back to Christ's a few. And I do think back to Christ's a few. And I do think back to Christ's example, example, example, we can overplay this probably, but I we can overplay this probably, but I we can overplay this probably, but I think that there is a lot to be said to think that there is a lot to be said to think that there is a lot to be said to the fact that there were 12 and there the fact that there were 12 and there the fact that there were 12 and there were three, right? And there was one. were three, right? And there was one. were three, right? And there was one. And so even that like our capacity just And so even that like our capacity just And so even that like our capacity just acknowledging that even Christ as far as acknowledging that even Christ as far as acknowledging that even Christ as far as how he was really going to do life and how he was really going to do life and how he was really going to do life and and do life together, share his life and do life together, share his life and do life together, share his life with others, that was really deeply with others, that was really deeply with others, that was really deeply intimate with 12. And then there were intimate with 12. And then there were intimate with 12. And then there were three that he was just a lot closer with three that he was just a lot closer with three that he was just a lot closer with and um and revealed himself even more to and um and revealed himself even more to and um and revealed himself even more to those three. And I I just think that those three. And I I just think that those three. And I I just think that there's something in that for us that's there's something in that for us that's there's something in that for us that's very freeing. It's not a it's it's not very freeing. It's not a it's it's not very freeing. It's not a it's it's not prescriptive. Um but it is helpful to prescriptive. Um but it is helpful to prescriptive. Um but it is helpful to think about the fact that even Christ in think about the fact that even Christ in think about the fact that even Christ in his incarnation was was limited in that his incarnation was was limited in that his incarnation was was limited in that and and he functioned within that.

and and he functioned within that. and and he functioned within that. Melissa, I can tell you're about to say Melissa, I can tell you're about to say Melissa, I can tell you're about to say something. Sorry. You know, you know my something. Sorry. You know, you know my something. Sorry. You know, you know my face. You know my Well, um, no, I was face. You know my Well, um, no, I was face. You know my Well, um, no, I was just when you were saying that, I was just when you were saying that, I was just when you were saying that, I was remembering that CS Lewis quote and he remembering that CS Lewis quote and he remembering that CS Lewis quote and he talked about they had just lost one of talked about they had just lost one of talked about they had just lost one of their friends and he said, "You might their friends and he said, "You might their friends and he said, "You might think," so if they I don't know if they think," so if they I don't know if they think," so if they I don't know if they were a group of four or group of five were a group of four or group of five were a group of four or group of five and he said, "You might think now I have and he said, "You might think now I have and he said, "You might think now I have more of Roger and Thomas and somebody more of Roger and Thomas and somebody more of Roger and Thomas and somebody else, but he goes, actually I have less else, but he goes, actually I have less else, but he goes, actually I have less of them because now that you know, let's of them because now that you know, let's of them because now that you know, let's say his name was John. Now that John's say his name was John. Now that John's say his name was John. Now that John's gone, I'll never see Thomas light up how gone, I'll never see Thomas light up how gone, I'll never see Thomas light up how he used to when John made that joke. So, he used to when John made that joke. So, he used to when John made that joke. So, it's like the beauty of friendship is it's like the beauty of friendship is it's like the beauty of friendship is less about I get more when it's just the less about I get more when it's just the less about I get more when it's just the other person. other person. other person. >> It's actually beautiful that we get more >> It's actually beautiful that we get more >> It's actually beautiful that we get more when we're together because I'm not when we're together because I'm not when we're together because I'm not enough to satisfy any person nor is any enough to satisfy any person nor is any enough to satisfy any person nor is any person enough to satisfy me. But when person enough to satisfy me. But when person enough to satisfy me. But when we, you know, can see um the we, you know, can see um the we, you know, can see um the relationships actually playing off each relationships actually playing off each relationships actually playing off each other in a wonderful way. I think we we other in a wonderful way. I think we we other in a wonderful way. I think we we can probably all see this in our can probably all see this in our can probably all see this in our families, you know. I mean, when one families, you know. I mean, when one families, you know. I mean, when one person is gone, you get everyone less, person is gone, you get everyone less, person is gone, you get everyone less, not more.

not more. not more. >> It's true. >> It's true. >> It's true. >> Yeah. You know, >> Yeah. You know, >> Yeah. You know, >> and I think that's the beautiful thing >> and I think that's the beautiful thing >> and I think that's the beautiful thing about friendship. But if we can be about friendship. But if we can be about friendship. But if we can be open-handed open-handed open-handed and trust that the Lord's going to bring and trust that the Lord's going to bring and trust that the Lord's going to bring the right friends at just the right time the right friends at just the right time the right friends at just the right time and sometimes friendship may be lacking and sometimes friendship may be lacking and sometimes friendship may be lacking and he's got a purpose for that too. I I and he's got a purpose for that too. I I and he's got a purpose for that too. I I mean this is again, you know, there's mean this is again, you know, there's mean this is again, you know, there's life lessons we try to pass on. life lessons we try to pass on. life lessons we try to pass on. Sometimes the lonely season have been Sometimes the lonely season have been Sometimes the lonely season have been the season I've learned how to be a good the season I've learned how to be a good the season I've learned how to be a good friend. And it made me different when I friend. And it made me different when I friend. And it made me different when I walked into rooms where I did know walked into rooms where I did know walked into rooms where I did know everyone because I'd walked into a room everyone because I'd walked into a room everyone because I'd walked into a room where I didn't know anyone. Yeah. And where I didn't know anyone. Yeah. And where I didn't know anyone. Yeah. And that helped me be better in that that helped me be better in that that helped me be better in that situation where I knew a lot of people situation where I knew a lot of people situation where I knew a lot of people to see the lonely person to have the to see the lonely person to have the to see the lonely person to have the eyes. So a lot of this with friendship eyes. So a lot of this with friendship eyes. So a lot of this with friendship is rooted I think in first and foremost is rooted I think in first and foremost is rooted I think in first and foremost having a friendship with Jesus. having a friendship with Jesus. having a friendship with Jesus. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> And that is going to spur on other >> And that is going to spur on other >> And that is going to spur on other friendships. Can you talk about that friendships. Can you talk about that friendships. Can you talk about that just, you know, here at the end? How just, you know, here at the end? How just, you know, here at the end? How rooting oursel in a friendship with rooting oursel in a friendship with rooting oursel in a friendship with Jesus is actually going to make all of Jesus is actually going to make all of Jesus is actually going to make all of our friendships more abundant. They're our friendships more abundant. They're our friendships more abundant. They're going to flourish better when we're going to flourish better when we're going to flourish better when we're first rooted in him. Oh, I love that first rooted in him. Oh, I love that first rooted in him. Oh, I love that question. I I think for me, my lonely question. I I think for me, my lonely question. I I think for me, my lonely seasons, that's what I learned is that I seasons, that's what I learned is that I seasons, that's what I learned is that I was looking to other people to to be God was looking to other people to to be God was looking to other people to to be God to me. I I needed that one, I call it to me. I I needed that one, I call it to me. I I needed that one, I call it the one friend to rule them all. was the one friend to rule them all. was the one friend to rule them all. was looking for that person or that group to looking for that person or that group to looking for that person or that group to to fill a need that only Jesus could to fill a need that only Jesus could to fill a need that only Jesus could fill. And so he I think sovereignly kept

fill. And so he I think sovereignly kept fill. And so he I think sovereignly kept friendship from me so that I would see friendship from me so that I would see friendship from me so that I would see that about myself and I would turn to that about myself and I would turn to that about myself and I would turn to him. And that changed everything for me, him. And that changed everything for me, him. And that changed everything for me, my perspective on friendship because I my perspective on friendship because I my perspective on friendship because I realized that what I had done is I keep realized that what I had done is I keep realized that what I had done is I keep using this word I idolizing because I using this word I idolizing because I using this word I idolizing because I think that that's that's what we do. We think that that's that's what we do. We think that that's that's what we do. We idealize is to idolize. We're idolizing idealize is to idolize. We're idolizing idealize is to idolize. We're idolizing friendship so much and looking for that friendship so much and looking for that friendship so much and looking for that in people, but really we're looking for in people, but really we're looking for in people, but really we're looking for them to be God to us or sometimes we them to be God to us or sometimes we them to be God to us or sometimes we have problems in friendship because we have problems in friendship because we have problems in friendship because we experience someone wanting us to be God experience someone wanting us to be God experience someone wanting us to be God to them and and that can feel so oof but to them and and that can feel so oof but to them and and that can feel so oof but but but so I think for me learning that but but so I think for me learning that but but so I think for me learning that God is God and people are people and God God is God and people are people and God God is God and people are people and God is the perfect friend. He has loved me is the perfect friend. He has loved me is the perfect friend. He has loved me perfectly by sending his son to die on perfectly by sending his son to die on perfectly by sending his son to die on the cross for me to bring me back into the cross for me to bring me back into the cross for me to bring me back into relationship into friendship with him. relationship into friendship with him. relationship into friendship with him. And so everything I'm looking for this And so everything I'm looking for this And so everything I'm looking for this ideal relationship where I'm known fully ideal relationship where I'm known fully ideal relationship where I'm known fully and loved fully that will not no one and loved fully that will not no one and loved fully that will not no one will leave me. They will not wound me.

will leave me. They will not wound me. will leave me. They will not wound me. They will not abandon me then that is They will not abandon me then that is They will not abandon me then that is that is in Jesus. And so when I'm that is in Jesus. And so when I'm that is in Jesus. And so when I'm longing for that, again, I think the longing for that, again, I think the longing for that, again, I think the longing is such a good sign for us to longing is such a good sign for us to longing is such a good sign for us to look at and say, "This is a good look at and say, "This is a good look at and say, "This is a good longing." But where can it truly be longing." But where can it truly be longing." But where can it truly be found? It can only truly be found in found? It can only truly be found in found? It can only truly be found in Jesus. And when I'm secure in his love, Jesus. And when I'm secure in his love, Jesus. And when I'm secure in his love, then I can go and I can love other then I can go and I can love other then I can go and I can love other people as he has loved me and know that people as he has loved me and know that people as he has loved me and know that I will do it imperfectly and that they I will do it imperfectly and that they I will do it imperfectly and that they will respond imperfectly. But that's will respond imperfectly. But that's will respond imperfectly. But that's okay because the weight of my, you know, okay because the weight of my, you know, okay because the weight of my, you know, my validation as a person or my my validation as a person or my my validation as a person or my acceptance or whatever it is I'm looking acceptance or whatever it is I'm looking acceptance or whatever it is I'm looking for is not in them. It's in Jesus who for is not in them. It's in Jesus who for is not in them. It's in Jesus who offers me all of that fully. So to me offers me all of that fully. So to me offers me all of that fully. So to me that's the key is to walk with Jesus so that's the key is to walk with Jesus so that's the key is to walk with Jesus so closely to know his love u and that and closely to know his love u and that and closely to know his love u and that and and the security of that so that when we and the security of that so that when we and the security of that so that when we are wounded or we are a relationship are wounded or we are a relationship are wounded or we are a relationship does fall apart we are not devastated as does fall apart we are not devastated as does fall apart we are not devastated as if our life has fallen apart that is if our life has fallen apart that is if our life has fallen apart that is hard um but we can continue to get in hard um but we can continue to get in hard um but we can continue to get in the game and love people as Jesus has the game and love people as Jesus has the game and love people as Jesus has loved us. I loved what you just said loved us. I loved what you just said loved us. I loved what you just said about to idealize is to idolize. And so about to idealize is to idolize. And so about to idealize is to idolize. And so that is, you know, that's just a really that is, you know, that's just a really that is, you know, that's just a really helpful little rubric. If I'm looking helpful little rubric. If I'm looking helpful little rubric. If I'm looking for something to be ideal, this for something to be ideal, this for something to be ideal, this friendship or this friend to be sort of friendship or this friend to be sort of friendship or this friend to be sort of this ideal, you know, movieesque uh this ideal, you know, movieesque uh this ideal, you know, movieesque uh friendship, then woo, that might be a friendship, then woo, that might be a friendship, then woo, that might be a little a little warning that I'm little a little warning that I'm little a little warning that I'm idolizing this idea of friendship. Well,

idolizing this idea of friendship. Well, idolizing this idea of friendship. Well, we hope that whether you are a woman who we hope that whether you are a woman who we hope that whether you are a woman who is seeking to make her friendships is seeking to make her friendships is seeking to make her friendships deeper and more gospel- centered, deeper and more gospel- centered, deeper and more gospel- centered, whether you are a woman who is lonely whether you are a woman who is lonely whether you are a woman who is lonely and longing for friendship, whether you and longing for friendship, whether you and longing for friendship, whether you are a woman who has been hurt and not are a woman who has been hurt and not are a woman who has been hurt and not even sure you want to keep pursuing um even sure you want to keep pursuing um even sure you want to keep pursuing um healthy and gospel- centered healthy and gospel- centered healthy and gospel- centered friendships, we hope that this episode friendships, we hope that this episode friendships, we hope that this episode has been both encouraging and helpful, has been both encouraging and helpful, has been both encouraging and helpful, that it is a it is a worthy endeavor. that it is a it is a worthy endeavor. that it is a it is a worthy endeavor. You were not meant to do this life You were not meant to do this life You were not meant to do this life alone. We are meant to do this life with alone. We are meant to do this life with alone. We are meant to do this life with each other. We're meant to bear with each other. We're meant to bear with each other. We're meant to bear with imperfect friends, imperfect people, and imperfect friends, imperfect people, and imperfect friends, imperfect people, and we're meant for them to bear with us. we're meant for them to bear with us. we're meant for them to bear with us. And in all of it, we grow. I mean, it's And in all of it, we grow. I mean, it's And in all of it, we grow. I mean, it's actually a huge part of what the Lord actually a huge part of what the Lord actually a huge part of what the Lord uses to grow us towards maturity in uses to grow us towards maturity in uses to grow us towards maturity in Christ. And so, please keep pursuing Christ. And so, please keep pursuing Christ. And so, please keep pursuing healthier gospel- centered friendships healthier gospel- centered friendships healthier gospel- centered friendships um with the women in in your life and in um with the women in in your life and in um with the women in in your life and in your local church. But Christine, thanks your local church. But Christine, thanks your local church. But Christine, thanks again for joining us on the deep dish. again for joining us on the deep dish. again for joining us on the deep dish. Our last question for you today is what Our last question for you today is what Our last question for you today is what is your favorite way and I I'm eager to is your favorite way and I I'm eager to is your favorite way and I I'm eager to hear this because I'm like you. I've hear this because I'm like you. I've hear this because I'm like you. I've moved multiple times and I have dear moved multiple times and I have dear moved multiple times and I have dear friends in each of those locations. And friends in each of those locations. And friends in each of those locations. And so what is your favorite way to keep in so what is your favorite way to keep in so what is your favorite way to keep in touch with friends that you've that touch with friends that you've that touch with friends that you've that you've moved away from?

you've moved away from? you've moved away from? >> Well, it's different with different >> Well, it's different with different >> Well, it's different with different people. I'm finding like some people people. I'm finding like some people people. I'm finding like some people respond better by text or that kind of respond better by text or that kind of respond better by text or that kind of thing, but my favorite way and I get thing, but my favorite way and I get thing, but my favorite way and I get made fun of by the younger women in my made fun of by the younger women in my made fun of by the younger women in my life. I'm not sure why, but as Voxer, life. I'm not sure why, but as Voxer, life. I'm not sure why, but as Voxer, you know, the walkie-talkie, you know, the walkie-talkie, you know, the walkie-talkie, >> do we know it? We feel like they should >> do we know it? We feel like they should >> do we know it? We feel like they should sponsor this podcast. We talk about it sponsor this podcast. We talk about it sponsor this podcast. We talk about it all the time. all the time. all the time. >> Okay. Well, have you ever talked to >> Okay. Well, have you ever talked to >> Okay. Well, have you ever talked to younger women about this? For some younger women about this? For some younger women about this? For some reason, younger women at our church are reason, younger women at our church are reason, younger women at our church are like, "You use Foxer? That's like an old like, "You use Foxer? That's like an old like, "You use Foxer? That's like an old school." Like, they they think it's so school." Like, they they think it's so school." Like, they they think it's so grandma. I don't know. So funny. I just grandma. I don't know. So funny. I just grandma. I don't know. So funny. I just got a young woman on Boxer on Friday and got a young woman on Boxer on Friday and got a young woman on Boxer on Friday and I'm so excited about it. So I I don't I'm so excited about it. So I I don't I'm so excited about it. So I I don't know. I kind of I kind of encourage know. I kind of I kind of encourage know. I kind of I kind of encourage >> I like it. And also I like it because it >> I like it. And also I like it because it >> I like it. And also I like it because it doesn't have video. I don't like the the doesn't have video. I don't like the the doesn't have video. I don't like the the video ones because every time everyone video ones because every time everyone video ones because every time everyone starts by, oh, I look awful. I'm sorry. starts by, oh, I look awful. I'm sorry. starts by, oh, I look awful. I'm sorry. My hair whatever, you know? It's just My hair whatever, you know? It's just My hair whatever, you know? It's just like let's just get past it and just like let's just get past it and just like let's just get past it and just talk, you know? talk, you know? talk, you know? >> Right. But you can hear their voice. I >> Right. But you can hear their voice. I >> Right. But you can hear their voice. I really love that. Yeah. my friends that really love that. Yeah. my friends that really love that. Yeah. my friends that any of my really dear friends that are any of my really dear friends that are any of my really dear friends that are listening that have been, you know, listening that have been, you know, listening that have been, you know, really stubborn about getting on Voxer, really stubborn about getting on Voxer, really stubborn about getting on Voxer, just know it is hindering our friendship just know it is hindering our friendship just know it is hindering our friendship at this [laughter] point.

at this [laughter] point. at this [laughter] point. We We We >> I know >> I know >> I know >> love it. We love it. >> love it. We love it. >> love it. We love it. >> H Well, and I've I've often said it's >> H Well, and I've I've often said it's >> H Well, and I've I've often said it's been a really redeeming part of social been a really redeeming part of social been a really redeeming part of social media for me is to just see the the media for me is to just see the the media for me is to just see the the photos and hear the quick little updates photos and hear the quick little updates photos and hear the quick little updates from um from friends in in previous from um from friends in in previous from um from friends in in previous places that I've lived. So, I'm really places that I've lived. So, I'm really places that I've lived. So, I'm really grateful for that. [music] grateful for that. [music] grateful for that. [music] Well, friends, we hope you have enjoyed Well, friends, we hope you have enjoyed Well, friends, we hope you have enjoyed this episode of The Deep Dish from the this episode of The Deep Dish from the this episode of The Deep Dish from the Gospel Coalition. If it has been Gospel Coalition. If it has been Gospel Coalition. If it has been helpful, um, encouraging, we would love helpful, um, encouraging, we would love helpful, um, encouraging, we would love for you to like, subscribe, uh, share it for you to like, subscribe, uh, share it for you to like, subscribe, uh, share it with a friend, and have a good with a friend, and have a good with a friend, and have a good conversation [music] conversation [music] conversation [music] about what it means to have gospel- about what it means to have gospel- about what it means to have gospel- centered friends. We'll see you next centered friends. We'll see you next centered friends. We'll see you next time.