Parenting with Hope in an Anxious Age [TGC Podcast Ep. 409]

Well, good afternoon everyone. We'll go Well, good afternoon everyone. We'll go ahead and get this cranked up. Let me ahead and get this cranked up. Let me ahead and get this cranked up. Let me offer you a warm welcome to this session offer you a warm welcome to this session offer you a warm welcome to this session on parenting with hope. Parenting with on parenting with hope. Parenting with on parenting with hope. Parenting with hope in an anxious age in particular and hope in an anxious age in particular and hope in an anxious age in particular and a special welcome to all you anxious a special welcome to all you anxious a special welcome to all you anxious parents out parents out parents out there and you have two anxious parents there and you have two anxious parents there and you have two anxious parents on the stage. So, we're all in this on the stage. So, we're all in this on the stage. So, we're all in this together. No, we're we're thrilled about together. No, we're we're thrilled about together. No, we're we're thrilled about this. Melissa and I are just so excited this. Melissa and I are just so excited this. Melissa and I are just so excited to discuss this topic with you to be to discuss this topic with you to be to discuss this topic with you to be here at the Gospel Coalition 2025 here at the Gospel Coalition 2025 here at the Gospel Coalition 2025 conference. If you don't know me, my conference. If you don't know me, my conference. If you don't know me, my name is Mike Krueger. I'm the president name is Mike Krueger. I'm the president name is Mike Krueger. I'm the president of Reformed Theological Seminary in of Reformed Theological Seminary in of Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, and also Charlotte, North Carolina, and also Charlotte, North Carolina, and also professor of New Testament. And my wife professor of New Testament. And my wife professor of New Testament. And my wife is Melissa Krueger, and she is the vice is Melissa Krueger, and she is the vice is Melissa Krueger, and she is the vice president of Disciplehip Programming at president of Disciplehip Programming at president of Disciplehip Programming at this wonderful conference and at TGC. this wonderful conference and at TGC. this wonderful conference and at TGC. And what what is it exactly you do, And what what is it exactly you do, And what what is it exactly you do, Melissa, with disciplehip programming Melissa, with disciplehip programming Melissa, with disciplehip programming anyway? What is that exactly? That's a anyway? What is that exactly? That's a anyway? What is that exactly? That's a good question. good question. good question. Um I I am over two parts. One are all of Um I I am over two parts. One are all of Um I I am over two parts. One are all of our events. So everything that's our events. So everything that's our events. So everything that's happening here um I get to help plan and happening here um I get to help plan and happening here um I get to help plan and be a part of. And then um our women's be a part of. And then um our women's be a part of. And then um our women's initiatives is also kind of under under initiatives is also kind of under under initiatives is also kind of under under my side of things. So it's really good.

my side of things. So it's really good. my side of things. So it's really good. And do you want me to tell about our And do you want me to tell about our And do you want me to tell about our family? I do. That's why we're here. family? I do. That's why we're here. family? I do. That's why we're here. Yes. Um we have three kids. Um we have Yes. Um we have three kids. Um we have Yes. Um we have three kids. Um we have an 18-year-old who is getting ready. I an 18-year-old who is getting ready. I an 18-year-old who is getting ready. I hope there's at least one Tar Hill in hope there's at least one Tar Hill in hope there's at least one Tar Hill in the house. Um okay, good. There is. the house. Um okay, good. There is. the house. Um okay, good. There is. She's getting ready to go to UNCC next She's getting ready to go to UNCC next She's getting ready to go to UNCC next next year. So, we'll be empty nesting. next year. So, we'll be empty nesting. next year. So, we'll be empty nesting. We have a 21-year-old son. In fact, We have a 21-year-old son. In fact, We have a 21-year-old son. In fact, we're changing the topic to empty we're changing the topic to empty we're changing the topic to empty nesting, which will be the new topic for nesting, which will be the new topic for nesting, which will be the new topic for today. So, I would need tissues for that today. So, I would need tissues for that today. So, I would need tissues for that one. We'll just, you know, do that. Um, one. We'll just, you know, do that. Um, one. We'll just, you know, do that. Um, and we have a son who um loves to blow and we have a son who um loves to blow and we have a son who um loves to blow things up. He is an aerospace things up. He is an aerospace things up. He is an aerospace engineering student. And then we have a engineering student. And then we have a engineering student. And then we have a daughter who is 24. She is here daughter who is 24. She is here daughter who is 24. She is here somewhere. Where are you, somewhere. Where are you, somewhere. Where are you, Emma? Is she? She didn't come. And Emma? Is she? She didn't come. And Emma? Is she? She didn't come. And Andrew. Oh, there they are. Way back. Andrew. Oh, there they are. Way back. Andrew. Oh, there they are. Way back. and a son-in-law. They're both in the and a son-in-law. They're both in the and a son-in-law. They're both in the back. They don't have a seat. There's back. They don't have a seat. There's back. They don't have a seat. There's seats right up here. There's a reason seats right up here. There's a reason seats right up here. There's a reason she didn't come, I think. Um, so when she didn't come, I think. Um, so when she didn't come, I think. Um, so when the discussion is over today, Emma will the discussion is over today, Emma will the discussion is over today, Emma will be up on the stage taking questions um be up on the stage taking questions um be up on the stage taking questions um for everybody. She will she will either for everybody. She will she will either for everybody. She will she will either confirm or deny everything we teach confirm or deny everything we teach confirm or deny everything we teach today. So that's that's why she's here today. So that's that's why she's here today. So that's that's why she's here to keep us honest. Oh, and let me say to keep us honest. Oh, and let me say to keep us honest. Oh, and let me say this session, we just want to say thank this session, we just want to say thank this session, we just want to say thank you um to Harvest House. They um have you um to Harvest House. They um have you um to Harvest House. They um have sponsored this session. There is a sponsored this session. There is a sponsored this session. There is a lovely gift basket which I kind of want lovely gift basket which I kind of want lovely gift basket which I kind of want to take myself um that we're going to we to take myself um that we're going to we to take myself um that we're going to we there's a raffle that will be given at there's a raffle that will be given at there's a raffle that will be given at the end. So you have to stay till the the end. So you have to stay till the the end. So you have to stay till the end but I have some names of that end but I have some names of that end but I have some names of that they've already drawn and that will be they've already drawn and that will be they've already drawn and that will be given to someone. So Harvest House has given to someone. So Harvest House has given to someone. So Harvest House has sponsored this and we're so glad that sponsored this and we're so glad that sponsored this and we're so glad that they have. Yes. Um and on that note, they have. Yes. Um and on that note, they have. Yes. Um and on that note, some of you see on the chair in front of some of you see on the chair in front of some of you see on the chair in front of you the book that Melissa released last

you the book that Melissa released last you the book that Melissa released last year called Parenting with Hope. And year called Parenting with Hope. And year called Parenting with Hope. And this is actually where we're getting the this is actually where we're getting the this is actually where we're getting the title of this session from. And this is title of this session from. And this is title of this session from. And this is just such a fantastic book. One of the just such a fantastic book. One of the just such a fantastic book. One of the reasons that Harvest House is sponsoring reasons that Harvest House is sponsoring reasons that Harvest House is sponsoring this uh event is because they're the this uh event is because they're the this uh event is because they're the ones that published this book and it's ones that published this book and it's ones that published this book and it's wonderful. I've I've read every one of wonderful. I've I've read every one of wonderful. I've I've read every one of Melissa's books. How How many of How Melissa's books. How How many of How Melissa's books. How How many of How many of my books have you read, Melissa? many of my books have you read, Melissa? many of my books have you read, Melissa? Just curious. Just curious. Just curious. I've read some of them. Some of them. By I've read some of them. Some of them. By I've read some of them. Some of them. By some of them, she means one of them. some of them, she means one of them. some of them, she means one of them. Partly, we make fun of each other. I I Partly, we make fun of each other. I I Partly, we make fun of each other. I I often tell people that I write books and often tell people that I write books and often tell people that I write books and Melissa writes books that people read. Melissa writes books that people read. Melissa writes books that people read. So, that's always helpful. Um, and and So, that's always helpful. Um, and and So, that's always helpful. Um, and and this is one of those books that people this is one of those books that people this is one of those books that people read and ought to read. It's no, in all read and ought to read. It's no, in all read and ought to read. It's no, in all seriousness, this is just really seriousness, this is just really seriousness, this is just really fantastic. Obviously, she wrote it, not fantastic. Obviously, she wrote it, not fantastic. Obviously, she wrote it, not me, but I did read every word, and it me, but I did read every word, and it me, but I did read every word, and it just has such profound wisdom. We'll be just has such profound wisdom. We'll be just has such profound wisdom. We'll be del delving into some of that wisdom in del delving into some of that wisdom in del delving into some of that wisdom in our time together with you in this our time together with you in this our time together with you in this session, of course, but I hope you'll session, of course, but I hope you'll session, of course, but I hope you'll check it out um as you leave here check it out um as you leave here check it out um as you leave here because it's really a wonderful resource because it's really a wonderful resource because it's really a wonderful resource for what we're talking about today. Now, for what we're talking about today. Now, for what we're talking about today. Now, as you already heard, the reason this as you already heard, the reason this as you already heard, the reason this topic is important to us is, I'm sure, topic is important to us is, I'm sure, topic is important to us is, I'm sure, the same reason it's important to you is the same reason it's important to you is the same reason it's important to you is that we're we're parents. We have three that we're we're parents. We have three that we're we're parents. We have three children. you've already heard about children. you've already heard about children. you've already heard about that Melissa introduced, but I want you that Melissa introduced, but I want you that Melissa introduced, but I want you to know that we don't really really view to know that we don't really really view to know that we don't really really view this session as just for people who are this session as just for people who are this session as just for people who are right in the throws of it. We are on the right in the throws of it. We are on the right in the throws of it. We are on the back end of it. Some of you are just back end of it. Some of you are just back end of it. Some of you are just starting out. Some of you are in the starting out. Some of you are in the starting out. Some of you are in the middle of it. Some of you wonder, "How middle of it. Some of you wonder, "How middle of it. Some of you wonder, "How in the world did I ever get here? And in the world did I ever get here? And in the world did I ever get here? And how did these things get this way?" Some how did these things get this way?" Some how did these things get this way?" Some of you haven't even had kids yet. And of you haven't even had kids yet. And of you haven't even had kids yet. And this is still for you. We hope you're this is still for you. We hope you're this is still for you. We hope you're here thinking someday maybe the Lord here thinking someday maybe the Lord here thinking someday maybe the Lord will bless you with children. We think will bless you with children. We think will bless you with children. We think this is just a topic that covers a this is just a topic that covers a this is just a topic that covers a number of really important and critical

number of really important and critical number of really important and critical issues that certainly are relevant to issues that certainly are relevant to issues that certainly are relevant to parenting but really go beyond that and parenting but really go beyond that and parenting but really go beyond that and that's why I'm thrilled about it. Let's that's why I'm thrilled about it. Let's that's why I'm thrilled about it. Let's start with this question Melissa just as start with this question Melissa just as start with this question Melissa just as we get rolling here before we get into we get rolling here before we get into we get rolling here before we get into our principles. And by the way, we have our principles. And by the way, we have our principles. And by the way, we have a number of principles we want to lay a number of principles we want to lay a number of principles we want to lay out for you today and just have a out for you today and just have a out for you today and just have a conversation about them. Before we do conversation about them. Before we do conversation about them. Before we do though, what what what have you loved though, what what what have you loved though, what what what have you loved the most about being a mom? Let's start the most about being a mom? Let's start the most about being a mom? Let's start there because I have ideas about what there because I have ideas about what there because I have ideas about what I've loved about being a dad. What have I've loved about being a dad. What have I've loved about being a dad. What have you loved the most about being a mom? you loved the most about being a mom? you loved the most about being a mom? That's a tough question. Okay. Um I Wow. That's a tough question. Okay. Um I Wow. That's a tough question. Okay. Um I Wow. I I can say this from the moment I got I I can say this from the moment I got I I can say this from the moment I got pregnant. I have thought what a pregnant. I have thought what a pregnant. I have thought what a privilege what a privilege to get to be privilege what a privilege to get to be privilege what a privilege to get to be a parent. And I can say um and I know a parent. And I can say um and I know a parent. And I can say um and I know some of you moms are in like the the some of you moms are in like the the some of you moms are in like the the days where you're getting like thrown up days where you're getting like thrown up days where you're getting like thrown up on. So that doesn't it doesn't always on. So that doesn't it doesn't always on. So that doesn't it doesn't always feel like a privilege at at every feel like a privilege at at every feel like a privilege at at every moment. But um it's been it's been such moment. But um it's been it's been such moment. But um it's been it's been such a joy I think a joy I think a joy I think to what I always say is children are to what I always say is children are to what I always say is children are like this gift that keeps unwrapping as like this gift that keeps unwrapping as like this gift that keeps unwrapping as they age. You know, they come into your they age. You know, they come into your they age. You know, they come into your home and you you look at them and you home and you you look at them and you home and you you look at them and you have all this time. You stare at them have all this time. You stare at them have all this time. You stare at them when they're little and then slowly the when they're little and then slowly the when they're little and then slowly the Lord reveals who he's making them to be.

Lord reveals who he's making them to be. Lord reveals who he's making them to be. And what a privilege to get to be part And what a privilege to get to be part And what a privilege to get to be part of that journey with them. What a joy to of that journey with them. What a joy to of that journey with them. What a joy to get to watch not who you're creating get to watch not who you're creating get to watch not who you're creating them to be, but who God's creating to them to be, but who God's creating to them to be, but who God's creating to them to be. I think that's my favorite them to be. I think that's my favorite them to be. I think that's my favorite thing. No, that that that is so true. In thing. No, that that that is so true. In thing. No, that that that is so true. In fact, one of the things I've enjoyed the fact, one of the things I've enjoyed the fact, one of the things I've enjoyed the most about I've loved so many things most about I've loved so many things most about I've loved so many things about being a dad. One of the things I about being a dad. One of the things I about being a dad. One of the things I did not expect about being a dad is how did not expect about being a dad is how did not expect about being a dad is how incredibly different each of my children incredibly different each of my children incredibly different each of my children are and how much distinctive joy each of are and how much distinctive joy each of are and how much distinctive joy each of them brings me. Um, each of them have so them brings me. Um, each of them have so them brings me. Um, each of them have so much to offer. So, gift sets, much to offer. So, gift sets, much to offer. So, gift sets, personalities, proclivities, the way personalities, proclivities, the way personalities, proclivities, the way they operate. And as they've aged and as they operate. And as they've aged and as they operate. And as they've aged and as our relationship has grown, I've just our relationship has grown, I've just our relationship has grown, I've just found myself every year that goes by found myself every year that goes by found myself every year that goes by just reveling in the joy of getting to just reveling in the joy of getting to just reveling in the joy of getting to know them. Uh, and how different they know them. Uh, and how different they know them. Uh, and how different they are from one another and all so are from one another and all so are from one another and all so wonderful in their own way. I always wonderful in their own way. I always wonderful in their own way. I always thought that before I had kids, they'd thought that before I had kids, they'd thought that before I had kids, they'd all kind of be the same. I don't know all kind of be the same. I don't know all kind of be the same. I don't know why I thought that. Um, but I thought, why I thought that. Um, but I thought, why I thought that. Um, but I thought, okay, you have kids, same parents, same okay, you have kids, same parents, same okay, you have kids, same parents, same house, they're all going to be kind of house, they're all going to be kind of house, they're all going to be kind of the same, but they're not. And that's the same, but they're not. And that's the same, but they're not. And that's one of the joys, I think, of parenting one of the joys, I think, of parenting one of the joys, I think, of parenting is just watching what God is doing is just watching what God is doing is just watching what God is doing distinctively in their lives. Now, in distinctively in their lives. Now, in distinctively in their lives. Now, in our time with you today, let me just set our time with you today, let me just set our time with you today, let me just set some expectations. I I know that you're some expectations. I I know that you're some expectations. I I know that you're smart enough to know that you're not smart enough to know that you're not smart enough to know that you're not going to come in here in a short session going to come in here in a short session going to come in here in a short session with us today and get all your parenting with us today and get all your parenting with us today and get all your parenting questions answered. And I want to take questions answered. And I want to take questions answered. And I want to take whatever percentage you have in your whatever percentage you have in your whatever percentage you have in your mind that maybe you'll get 25% of your mind that maybe you'll get 25% of your mind that maybe you'll get 25% of your parenting questions answered. And I want parenting questions answered. And I want parenting questions answered. And I want you to reduce that down to like 3% and you to reduce that down to like 3% and you to reduce that down to like 3% and then cut that in half and then cut that then cut that in half and then cut that then cut that in half and then cut that in half again. Um we are not under the in half again. Um we are not under the in half again. Um we are not under the illusion that what's going to happen in illusion that what's going to happen in illusion that what's going to happen in this session is going to solve this session is going to solve this session is going to solve everything that's to be solved about everything that's to be solved about everything that's to be solved about parenting. So what are we going to do

parenting. So what are we going to do parenting. So what are we going to do today? What we want to do is focus in on today? What we want to do is focus in on today? What we want to do is focus in on the big principles. Um, I think the big the big principles. Um, I think the big the big principles. Um, I think the big principles are the key because then principles are the key because then principles are the key because then everything else trickles down from everything else trickles down from everything else trickles down from those. And so, because we're going to those. And so, because we're going to those. And so, because we're going to find a good biblical number to use, find a good biblical number to use, find a good biblical number to use, we're going to lay out seven principles we're going to lay out seven principles we're going to lay out seven principles today, right? I figured I'm a Bible today, right? I figured I'm a Bible today, right? I figured I'm a Bible scholar. The number seven pops up a good scholar. The number seven pops up a good scholar. The number seven pops up a good bit in the Bible. Let's pick seven. So, bit in the Bible. Let's pick seven. So, bit in the Bible. Let's pick seven. So, we've picked seven principles. We'll we've picked seven principles. We'll we've picked seven principles. We'll move through these quickly. We know only move through these quickly. We know only move through these quickly. We know only have a short time with you. Um, but I have a short time with you. Um, but I have a short time with you. Um, but I know a lot of you have questions about a know a lot of you have questions about a know a lot of you have questions about a lot of particulars. What do you do with lot of particulars. What do you do with lot of particulars. What do you do with social media? When do you when is the social media? When do you when is the social media? When do you when is the right age for a child to have a mobile right age for a child to have a mobile right age for a child to have a mobile phone? When when do they date? for all phone? When when do they date? for all phone? When when do they date? for all those questions. Emma will be taking those questions. Emma will be taking those questions. Emma will be taking questions at the end of the thing questions at the end of the thing questions at the end of the thing tonight. Um, and she'll answer those for tonight. Um, and she'll answer those for tonight. Um, and she'll answer those for you. No, we we'll touch on some of you. No, we we'll touch on some of you. No, we we'll touch on some of those, but I think you'll discover that those, but I think you'll discover that those, but I think you'll discover that and and you know this that the principle and and you know this that the principle and and you know this that the principle is the is the archetype for everything, is the is the archetype for everything, is the is the archetype for everything, not not the particularity. And not not the particularity. And not not the particularity. And particularities will vary depending on particularities will vary depending on particularities will vary depending on the child, depending on the the child, depending on the the child, depending on the circumstance, depending on the parent. circumstance, depending on the parent. circumstance, depending on the parent. All right, let's do it. Seven things we All right, let's do it. Seven things we All right, let's do it. Seven things we want to jump into with you today. We're want to jump into with you today. We're want to jump into with you today. We're going to start with the first one, and going to start with the first one, and going to start with the first one, and it's first for a reason. Here's it's first for a reason. Here's it's first for a reason. Here's principle number one we want to share principle number one we want to share principle number one we want to share with you. Our hope must be godoriented with you. Our hope must be godoriented with you. Our hope must be godoriented as parents, not child oriented. Our hope as parents, not child oriented. Our hope as parents, not child oriented. Our hope must be god-oriented, not child must be god-oriented, not child must be god-oriented, not child oriented. Now, you'll notice that we did oriented. Now, you'll notice that we did oriented. Now, you'll notice that we did pick this title of our session today pick this title of our session today pick this title of our session today very particularly, parenting with hope very particularly, parenting with hope very particularly, parenting with hope in an anxious age. Look, we know there's in an anxious age. Look, we know there's in an anxious age. Look, we know there's a lot to be anxious about in our world.

a lot to be anxious about in our world. a lot to be anxious about in our world. U Melissa and I have raised three kids U Melissa and I have raised three kids U Melissa and I have raised three kids and our last one's 18 and about to be and our last one's 18 and about to be and our last one's 18 and about to be gone to college and there's lots to gone to college and there's lots to gone to college and there's lots to worry about and lots to think about. We worry about and lots to think about. We worry about and lots to think about. We know what's on your mind because the know what's on your mind because the know what's on your mind because the same things on our own mind. But we same things on our own mind. But we same things on our own mind. But we don't want to start with those issues. don't want to start with those issues. don't want to start with those issues. We want to start with actually a reason We want to start with actually a reason We want to start with actually a reason to be hopeful. And the reason we can be to be hopeful. And the reason we can be to be hopeful. And the reason we can be hopeful is only when you're God- hopeful is only when you're God- hopeful is only when you're God- centered and not child- centered. And we centered and not child- centered. And we centered and not child- centered. And we put all our hopes in our children and put all our hopes in our children and put all our hopes in our children and how they're doing. We're going to miss how they're doing. We're going to miss how they're doing. We're going to miss the bigger picture of putting our hope the bigger picture of putting our hope the bigger picture of putting our hope in God and what he's up to. Melissa, in God and what he's up to. Melissa, in God and what he's up to. Melissa, what give us your perspective on that? what give us your perspective on that? what give us your perspective on that? Are any verses come to mind? Anything Are any verses come to mind? Anything Are any verses come to mind? Anything that would help you think about what it that would help you think about what it that would help you think about what it means to be God-oriented, not means to be God-oriented, not means to be God-oriented, not child-oriented? Yeah, I often think child-oriented? Yeah, I often think child-oriented? Yeah, I often think about it a little bit like Joshua and about it a little bit like Joshua and about it a little bit like Joshua and Caleb um when they when when um Moses Caleb um when they when when um Moses Caleb um when they when when um Moses sent out the spies um to the land of sent out the spies um to the land of sent out the spies um to the land of Canaan and you know 10 of the spies come Canaan and you know 10 of the spies come Canaan and you know 10 of the spies come back and they're like uh there are back and they're like uh there are back and they're like uh there are giants in the lands. We're like giants in the lands. We're like giants in the lands. We're like grasshoppers in them and they come back grasshoppers in them and they come back grasshoppers in them and they come back with and they're completely afraid. And with and they're completely afraid. And with and they're completely afraid. And and here's the thing, they were right in and here's the thing, they were right in and here's the thing, they were right in some sense. There was a lot to be some sense. There was a lot to be some sense. There was a lot to be anxious about. you know, they're this anxious about. you know, they're this anxious about. you know, they're this little nation and they're going to go to little nation and they're going to go to little nation and they're going to go to war against all these Canaanites. How war against all these Canaanites. How war against all these Canaanites. How are they going to take the land? They are they going to take the land? They are they going to take the land? They had they had good questions. Joshua and had they had good questions. Joshua and had they had good questions. Joshua and Caleb came back and they were like, Caleb came back and they were like, Caleb came back and they were like, "God's got this. God can do this." And "God's got this. God can do this." And "God's got this. God can do this." And so, what I would say when you think so, what I would say when you think so, what I would say when you think about parenting teens in this about parenting teens in this about parenting teens in this generation, and I'll be honest, I think generation, and I'll be honest, I think generation, and I'll be honest, I think in any generation, there are true giants in any generation, there are true giants in any generation, there are true giants in the land. Um, when we say parenting in the land. Um, when we say parenting in the land. Um, when we say parenting with hope, it is not a hope that is just with hope, it is not a hope that is just with hope, it is not a hope that is just glib or, you know, stick your head in glib or, you know, stick your head in glib or, you know, stick your head in the sand and say everything's going to the sand and say everything's going to the sand and say everything's going to be okay. It's it's actually a hope that be okay. It's it's actually a hope that be okay. It's it's actually a hope that looks and says there are true giants in

looks and says there are true giants in looks and says there are true giants in the land, but God is where I'm putting the land, but God is where I'm putting the land, but God is where I'm putting my hope. Um, and Paul would say this my hope. Um, and Paul would say this my hope. Um, and Paul would say this time and time again in second time and time again in second time and time again in second Corinthians, he's talking about all the Corinthians, he's talking about all the Corinthians, he's talking about all the burdens he's bearing and all these burdens he's bearing and all these burdens he's bearing and all these struggles. And he says, on him we have struggles. And he says, on him we have struggles. And he says, on him we have set our hope that he will deliver us set our hope that he will deliver us set our hope that he will deliver us again. And if I could give any way to again. And if I could give any way to again. And if I could give any way to infuse hope to all of us as parents, it infuse hope to all of us as parents, it infuse hope to all of us as parents, it is that we do not set it on our is that we do not set it on our is that we do not set it on our children. We don't say, "Oh, I'm going children. We don't say, "Oh, I'm going children. We don't say, "Oh, I'm going to just hope in the outcomes. I'm going to just hope in the outcomes. I'm going to just hope in the outcomes. I'm going to hope in what they're going to be. I'm to hope in what they're going to be. I'm to hope in what they're going to be. I'm going to hope in my parenting skills." going to hope in my parenting skills." going to hope in my parenting skills." It's I'm going to look and say, "The It's I'm going to look and say, "The It's I'm going to look and say, "The world is full of a lot of scary things. world is full of a lot of scary things. world is full of a lot of scary things. There's the world, the flesh, the devil. There's the world, the flesh, the devil. There's the world, the flesh, the devil. They're all coming at us. There are all They're all coming at us. There are all They're all coming at us. There are all these things. Every generation has a new these things. Every generation has a new these things. Every generation has a new thing. and yet I'm gonna hope in God in thing. and yet I'm gonna hope in God in thing. and yet I'm gonna hope in God in the midst of that. We're going to talk the midst of that. We're going to talk the midst of that. We're going to talk more about what it looks like to hope in more about what it looks like to hope in more about what it looks like to hope in God in the midst of it, but it's God in the midst of it, but it's God in the midst of it, but it's somewhere to set it. It's not getting somewhere to set it. It's not getting somewhere to set it. It's not getting the right techniques. It's believing the right techniques. It's believing the right techniques. It's believing that God is able to work in in your that God is able to work in in your that God is able to work in in your child and and to remember that the teen child and and to remember that the teen child and and to remember that the teen years are a short season. Um so years are a short season. Um so years are a short season. Um so sometimes we can get so fixated on those sometimes we can get so fixated on those sometimes we can get so fixated on those years, but we want to be God in our years, but we want to be God in our years, but we want to be God in our hope, not child-oriented. Yeah. One of hope, not child-oriented. Yeah. One of hope, not child-oriented. Yeah. One of the things that I think you probably the things that I think you probably the things that I think you probably know intuitively and that we all know know intuitively and that we all know know intuitively and that we all know intuitively is that even though our intuitively is that even though our intuitively is that even though our generation seems like it's facing unique generation seems like it's facing unique generation seems like it's facing unique challenges that no one's ever faced challenges that no one's ever faced challenges that no one's ever faced before, and by the way, there is an before, and by the way, there is an before, and by the way, there is an element of truth to that. It's also true element of truth to that. It's also true element of truth to that. It's also true that every generation of parents thinks that every generation of parents thinks that every generation of parents thinks that they're in a place that is that they're in a place that is that they're in a place that is unprecedented. And anybody who's ever unprecedented. And anybody who's ever unprecedented. And anybody who's ever been a parent has fears about the next been a parent has fears about the next been a parent has fears about the next generation. If you go back to the 80s, generation. If you go back to the 80s, generation. If you go back to the 80s, when I grew up, every parent thought, when I grew up, every parent thought, when I grew up, every parent thought, "This is the end of the world. No one is

"This is the end of the world. No one is "This is the end of the world. No one is ever going to make it out of the 80s. ever going to make it out of the 80s. ever going to make it out of the 80s. Our culture is doomed." Well, okay, we Our culture is doomed." Well, okay, we Our culture is doomed." Well, okay, we made it. In the 90s, same thing. You go made it. In the 90s, same thing. You go made it. In the 90s, same thing. You go back into the 60s, it especially felt back into the 60s, it especially felt back into the 60s, it especially felt doomed. Even in the 50s, it felt doomed. doomed. Even in the 50s, it felt doomed. doomed. Even in the 50s, it felt doomed. You could keep going clock from You could keep going clock from You could keep going clock from generation and centuries beyond. generation and centuries beyond. generation and centuries beyond. Everybody's got a a concern. And I'm not Everybody's got a a concern. And I'm not Everybody's got a a concern. And I'm not saying they're not valid. But the focus saying they're not valid. But the focus saying they're not valid. But the focus is on the thing that doesn't change. is on the thing that doesn't change. is on the thing that doesn't change. Here's the thing that doesn't change, Here's the thing that doesn't change, Here's the thing that doesn't change, and that is God and his promises. And and that is God and his promises. And and that is God and his promises. And one of the things that we can trust one of the things that we can trust one of the things that we can trust about God and his promises is he does about God and his promises is he does about God and his promises is he does work through families. Now, one of the work through families. Now, one of the work through families. Now, one of the things that uh Melissa highlights in her things that uh Melissa highlights in her things that uh Melissa highlights in her book, which I thought was really a book, which I thought was really a book, which I thought was really a fascinating part of her research, is the fascinating part of her research, is the fascinating part of her research, is the statistics bear this out. I mean, even statistics bear this out. I mean, even statistics bear this out. I mean, even though we don't think that as parents though we don't think that as parents though we don't think that as parents our kids are listening to us, and by the our kids are listening to us, and by the our kids are listening to us, and by the way, if you feel that, you're partly way, if you feel that, you're partly way, if you feel that, you're partly right. Um, but you're also partly wrong. right. Um, but you're also partly wrong. right. Um, but you're also partly wrong. And one of the things that Melissa found And one of the things that Melissa found And one of the things that Melissa found in her book is that you may be more in her book is that you may be more in her book is that you may be more wrong than you think. What tell them a wrong than you think. What tell them a wrong than you think. What tell them a little bit about what you what you little bit about what you what you little bit about what you what you found. Yeah, there's a really found. Yeah, there's a really found. Yeah, there's a really interesting book. It's called Handing interesting book. It's called Handing interesting book. It's called Handing Down the Faith. And it was a Down the Faith. And it was a Down the Faith. And it was a sociological study of the transmission sociological study of the transmission sociological study of the transmission of faith from one generation to the of faith from one generation to the of faith from one generation to the next. And it wasn't just the Christian next. And it wasn't just the Christian next. And it wasn't just the Christian faith. It was various faiths. And this faith. It was various faiths. And this faith. It was various faiths. And this is what it said. Some readers might be is what it said. Some readers might be is what it said. Some readers might be surprised to know that the single most surprised to know that the single most surprised to know that the single most powerful causal influence on the powerful causal influence on the powerful causal influence on the religious lives of American teenagers religious lives of American teenagers religious lives of American teenagers and young adults, and young adults, and young adults, sorry, in the religious life is the is sorry, in the religious life is the is sorry, in the religious life is the is the religious lives of their parents, the religious lives of their parents, the religious lives of their parents, not their peers, not the media, not not their peers, not the media, not not their peers, not the media, not their youth group leaders or clergy, not their youth group leaders or clergy, not their youth group leaders or clergy, not their religious school teachers. Myriad their religious school teachers. Myriad their religious school teachers. Myriad studies show that beyond a doubt the studies show that beyond a doubt the studies show that beyond a doubt the parents of American youth play the parents of American youth play the parents of American youth play the leading role in shaping the character of leading role in shaping the character of leading role in shaping the character of the their religious and spiritual lives

the their religious and spiritual lives the their religious and spiritual lives even well after they leave the home. Now even well after they leave the home. Now even well after they leave the home. Now I know I just made you completely I know I just made you completely I know I just made you completely stressed out by that statement when I stressed out by that statement when I stressed out by that statement when I read that because it is it means read that because it is it means read that because it is it means actually what's happening in your home actually what's happening in your home actually what's happening in your home really really matters. No, I mean really really matters. No, I mean really really matters. No, I mean another way to think of it is even another way to think of it is even another way to think of it is even though we don't think it's happening, though we don't think it's happening, though we don't think it's happening, our kids are looking like us uh in some our kids are looking like us uh in some our kids are looking like us uh in some ways by character, spirituality and so ways by character, spirituality and so ways by character, spirituality and so forth that we are shaping them and forth that we are shaping them and forth that we are shaping them and influencing them apparently according to influencing them apparently according to influencing them apparently according to the study at least even more than the the study at least even more than the the study at least even more than the world around them. Um and as Melissa world around them. Um and as Melissa world around them. Um and as Melissa said that's both very heartening and said that's both very heartening and said that's both very heartening and also very scary because I think also very scary because I think also very scary because I think sometimes wait my kids are going to turn sometimes wait my kids are going to turn sometimes wait my kids are going to turn out like me that's not good news. I want out like me that's not good news. I want out like me that's not good news. I want them to not turn out by like me. Well, them to not turn out by like me. Well, them to not turn out by like me. Well, it's it's it's both and, right? On one it's it's it's both and, right? On one it's it's it's both and, right? On one level, we're glad they're not being level, we're glad they're not being level, we're glad they're not being influenced by outside forces. On another influenced by outside forces. On another influenced by outside forces. On another level, we also have to realize that that level, we also have to realize that that level, we also have to realize that that leads to a second thing. And that's leads to a second thing. And that's leads to a second thing. And that's really the second principle we want to really the second principle we want to really the second principle we want to share with you here. The first share with you here. The first share with you here. The first principle, as I already said, is we want principle, as I already said, is we want principle, as I already said, is we want to be God- centered, not child- centered to be God- centered, not child- centered to be God- centered, not child- centered in our approach. In other words, be in our approach. In other words, be in our approach. In other words, be optimistic. Here's the second principle optimistic. Here's the second principle optimistic. Here's the second principle we want to lay down for you, and it we want to lay down for you, and it we want to lay down for you, and it flows right out of the first one, and flows right out of the first one, and flows right out of the first one, and that is parenting begins not with making that is parenting begins not with making that is parenting begins not with making sure your kids follow God, but making sure your kids follow God, but making sure your kids follow God, but making sure you follow God. I'm going to read sure you follow God. I'm going to read sure you follow God. I'm going to read that again. Parenting begins not by that again. Parenting begins not by that again. Parenting begins not by making sure your kids follow God, but making sure your kids follow God, but making sure your kids follow God, but making sure you follow God. Here here's making sure you follow God. Here here's making sure you follow God. Here here's here's the thing that we want you to see here's the thing that we want you to see here's the thing that we want you to see in the second principle. And that is in the second principle. And that is in the second principle. And that is that it's it's tempting as a parent to that it's it's tempting as a parent to that it's it's tempting as a parent to be so focused on your child that be so focused on your child that be so focused on your child that everything is about controlling, everything is about controlling, everything is about controlling, shaping, determining how they act, what shaping, determining how they act, what shaping, determining how they act, what they say, what they think. And by the

they say, what they think. And by the they say, what they think. And by the way, there's a place for all of that. way, there's a place for all of that. way, there's a place for all of that. But but that's not the first step. The But but that's not the first step. The But but that's not the first step. The first step is if they're going to first step is if they're going to first step is if they're going to reflect us, then the first step is make reflect us, then the first step is make reflect us, then the first step is make sure that we are following God and that sure that we are following God and that sure that we are following God and that we are living out the Christian life. In we are living out the Christian life. In we are living out the Christian life. In other words, the first stop shop is our other words, the first stop shop is our other words, the first stop shop is our own spiritual health before we pass that own spiritual health before we pass that own spiritual health before we pass that on to our kids. Melissa, say more about on to our kids. Melissa, say more about on to our kids. Melissa, say more about that. Yeah, in Deuteronomy, yeah, the that. Yeah, in Deuteronomy, yeah, the that. Yeah, in Deuteronomy, yeah, the first call um to parents is not to teach first call um to parents is not to teach first call um to parents is not to teach these truths to the children. It is these truths to the children. It is these truths to the children. It is first love the Lord your God with all first love the Lord your God with all first love the Lord your God with all your heart, your strength, your soul, your heart, your strength, your soul, your heart, your strength, your soul, teach and then it says teach these teach and then it says teach these teach and then it says teach these impress them upon your children as you impress them upon your children as you impress them upon your children as you go about the way. So the very first go about the way. So the very first go about the way. So the very first thing we're to do our first call is to thing we're to do our first call is to thing we're to do our first call is to love the Lord your God with all your love the Lord your God with all your love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength, and soul. Um and so heart, strength, and soul. Um and so heart, strength, and soul. Um and so that's that's something we actually have that's that's something we actually have that's that's something we actually have to prioritize as parents. And so when to prioritize as parents. And so when to prioritize as parents. And so when you think about it, hey, what's you think about it, hey, what's you think about it, hey, what's important in my parenting? It's actually important in my parenting? It's actually important in my parenting? It's actually really important that you are spending really important that you are spending really important that you are spending time with the Lord and in prayer and time with the Lord and in prayer and time with the Lord and in prayer and being in God's word and all of those being in God's word and all of those being in God's word and all of those things. I think the scariest passage in things. I think the scariest passage in things. I think the scariest passage in the Bible, I came upon it. It's it's the Bible, I came upon it. It's it's the Bible, I came upon it. It's it's actually in 2 Kings 17:41. And this is actually in 2 Kings 17:41. And this is actually in 2 Kings 17:41. And this is what it says. Even while the people were what it says. Even while the people were what it says. Even while the people were worshiping the Lord, they were serving worshiping the Lord, they were serving worshiping the Lord, they were serving their idols and their children and their their idols and their children and their their idols and their children and their grandchildren did the same. So, so here grandchildren did the same. So, so here grandchildren did the same. So, so here this is this picture of the Israelites.

this is this picture of the Israelites. this is this picture of the Israelites. They were worshiping the Lord They were worshiping the Lord They were worshiping the Lord supposedly, but what were they really supposedly, but what were they really supposedly, but what were they really serving? Their idols. And what happened serving? Their idols. And what happened serving? Their idols. And what happened afterwards? Their children and afterwards? Their children and afterwards? Their children and grandchildren did the same. And so I grandchildren did the same. And so I grandchildren did the same. And so I think one thing that we have to realize think one thing that we have to realize think one thing that we have to realize in our battle in against culture in our battle in against culture in our battle in against culture sometimes, you know, you used to think sometimes, you know, you used to think sometimes, you know, you used to think it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll um it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll um it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll um were the were the big things that you're were the were the big things that you're were the were the big things that you're worried about with your teenager. And I worried about with your teenager. And I worried about with your teenager. And I would actually say it's not so much the would actually say it's not so much the would actually say it's not so much the culture out there, but the idols in here culture out there, but the idols in here culture out there, but the idols in here that I have found to be my biggest that I have found to be my biggest that I have found to be my biggest battle. Yes, culture is real. I mean, battle. Yes, culture is real. I mean, battle. Yes, culture is real. I mean, it's something we've got to fight it's something we've got to fight it's something we've got to fight against. There's a lot going on that's against. There's a lot going on that's against. There's a lot going on that's really hard. But the idols of my own really hard. But the idols of my own really hard. But the idols of my own soul are often what my children are most soul are often what my children are most soul are often what my children are most likely to worship because they actually likely to worship because they actually likely to worship because they actually love me. And because they love me, they love me. And because they love me, they love me. And because they love me, they love what I love. And so I think one love what I love. And so I think one love what I love. And so I think one thing we have to reckon with is thing we have to reckon with is thing we have to reckon with is sometimes we think the battle is out sometimes we think the battle is out sometimes we think the battle is out there and that feels much more there and that feels much more there and that feels much more comfortable, but we have a a war going comfortable, but we have a a war going comfortable, but we have a a war going on with our own idolatry. Fight there on with our own idolatry. Fight there on with our own idolatry. Fight there first. Fight our own idols. And I think first. Fight our own idols. And I think first. Fight our own idols. And I think we're all called to do that as we're all called to do that as we're all called to do that as Christians. And as we're doing that, put Christians. And as we're doing that, put Christians. And as we're doing that, put on love for the Lord. Fight our idols.

on love for the Lord. Fight our idols. on love for the Lord. Fight our idols. That's going to transform how we parent. That's going to transform how we parent. That's going to transform how we parent. So, I was I flew in this morning from So, I was I flew in this morning from So, I was I flew in this morning from Charlotte, North Carolina on the Charlotte, North Carolina on the Charlotte, North Carolina on the airplane because I I just arrived around airplane because I I just arrived around airplane because I I just arrived around lunch today before this conference got lunch today before this conference got lunch today before this conference got kicked off. And I don't know about you, kicked off. And I don't know about you, kicked off. And I don't know about you, but with all the airline stuff going on but with all the airline stuff going on but with all the airline stuff going on recently, I'm like actually listening to recently, I'm like actually listening to recently, I'm like actually listening to what the flight attendants say now um what the flight attendants say now um what the flight attendants say now um for the flight. Like, where are those for the flight. Like, where are those for the flight. Like, where are those emergency exits? I'm looking over my emergency exits? I'm looking over my emergency exits? I'm looking over my shoulder. Um one of the things they shoulder. Um one of the things they shoulder. Um one of the things they always say though, and you've been on always say though, and you've been on always say though, and you've been on enough planes to know this, that is if enough planes to know this, that is if enough planes to know this, that is if the oxygen masks drop from the ceiling, the oxygen masks drop from the ceiling, the oxygen masks drop from the ceiling, you always put yours on first before you always put yours on first before you always put yours on first before helping others. And every time I hear helping others. And every time I hear helping others. And every time I hear that over the years, I always think to that over the years, I always think to that over the years, I always think to myself, man, that's that's so selfish, myself, man, that's that's so selfish, myself, man, that's that's so selfish, so self-centered. Why would I help so self-centered. Why would I help so self-centered. Why would I help myself first before I help someone else? myself first before I help someone else? myself first before I help someone else? And of course, you know, the answer to And of course, you know, the answer to And of course, you know, the answer to that, the answer to that is that if that, the answer to that is that if that, the answer to that is that if you're not breathing oxygen yourself, you're not breathing oxygen yourself, you're not breathing oxygen yourself, you're not good to anyone. Um, and you're not good to anyone. Um, and you're not good to anyone. Um, and you've got to be breathing oxygen in you've got to be breathing oxygen in you've got to be breathing oxygen in order to help somebody. Well, that's the order to help somebody. Well, that's the order to help somebody. Well, that's the whole point here with the second whole point here with the second whole point here with the second principle, which is that as parents, put principle, which is that as parents, put principle, which is that as parents, put the oxygen mask on first before you help the oxygen mask on first before you help the oxygen mask on first before you help your child. meaning make sure you're your child. meaning make sure you're your child. meaning make sure you're breathing in deeply from God and his breathing in deeply from God and his breathing in deeply from God and his word spiritually. Otherwise, we're going word spiritually. Otherwise, we're going word spiritually. Otherwise, we're going to be of no use to our kids. Um, and to to be of no use to our kids. Um, and to to be of no use to our kids. Um, and to put on the oxygen mask first. And so, put on the oxygen mask first. And so, put on the oxygen mask first. And so, one of the things I found penetrating one of the things I found penetrating one of the things I found penetrating about Melissa's book is the book is about Melissa's book is the book is about Melissa's book is the book is about parenting, but if I could rephrase about parenting, but if I could rephrase about parenting, but if I could rephrase a little bit, the book is actually about a little bit, the book is actually about a little bit, the book is actually about parents. It's not just about parenting.

parents. It's not just about parenting. parents. It's not just about parenting. And it's about how we as parents need to And it's about how we as parents need to And it's about how we as parents need to make sure that we're pursuing Christ make sure that we're pursuing Christ make sure that we're pursuing Christ with our whole heart and soul so that with our whole heart and soul so that with our whole heart and soul so that our parents or sorry so that our our parents or sorry so that our our parents or sorry so that our children pursue Christ with their own children pursue Christ with their own children pursue Christ with their own heart and soul. Now here's the here's heart and soul. Now here's the here's heart and soul. Now here's the here's the reality is that if we do that we're the reality is that if we do that we're the reality is that if we do that we're going to fail. And if you've been a going to fail. And if you've been a going to fail. And if you've been a parent very long, you know this. You you parent very long, you know this. You you parent very long, you know this. You you try to live the Christian life try to live the Christian life try to live the Christian life faithfully in front of your kids and you faithfully in front of your kids and you faithfully in front of your kids and you you trip and you fall and you stumble. you trip and you fall and you stumble. you trip and you fall and you stumble. And so before we leave the second And so before we leave the second And so before we leave the second principle, just one more note and that principle, just one more note and that principle, just one more note and that is just the importance of of owning our is just the importance of of owning our is just the importance of of owning our mistakes as parents and apologizing both mistakes as parents and apologizing both mistakes as parents and apologizing both in front of and to our children when in front of and to our children when in front of and to our children when it's needed. Melissa, say something it's needed. Melissa, say something it's needed. Melissa, say something about that because I think that's a key about that because I think that's a key about that because I think that's a key part of your book, too. Yeah. I mean, I part of your book, too. Yeah. I mean, I part of your book, too. Yeah. I mean, I think especially I would say if you have think especially I would say if you have think especially I would say if you have younger children, start it young. But um younger children, start it young. But um younger children, start it young. But um it's really important when you have it's really important when you have it's really important when you have older kids to be able um let's say a older kids to be able um let's say a older kids to be able um let's say a teenager comes in in a really bad mood. teenager comes in in a really bad mood. teenager comes in in a really bad mood. Um they really Yeah. What are you Um they really Yeah. What are you Um they really Yeah. What are you talking about? They look at you like talking about? They look at you like talking about? They look at you like you're a problem because you exist and you're a problem because you exist and you're a problem because you exist and you know they walk in. They Emma, you you know they walk in. They Emma, you you know they walk in. They Emma, you paying attention in the back? Okay. Emma paying attention in the back? Okay. Emma paying attention in the back? Okay. Emma never did that. Emma never did that, never did that. Emma never did that, never did that. Emma never did that, right? They slam the door. Whatever. I right? They slam the door. Whatever. I right? They slam the door. Whatever. I mean, part of this is mean, part of this is mean, part of this is um when I say normal, I'm not saying um when I say normal, I'm not saying um when I say normal, I'm not saying right, but some of this is just, you right, but some of this is just, you right, but some of this is just, you know, if they've had a bad day, know, if they've had a bad day, know, if they've had a bad day, sometimes they don't have, you know, the sometimes they don't have, you know, the sometimes they don't have, you know, the ability to rightly deal with that as all ability to rightly deal with that as all ability to rightly deal with that as all of us sometimes struggle with how we of us sometimes struggle with how we of us sometimes struggle with how we feel about our days. Um, and so let's feel about our days. Um, and so let's feel about our days. Um, and so let's say they do that. It it can be really say they do that. It it can be really say they do that. It it can be really tempting as a parent, you know, in that tempting as a parent, you know, in that tempting as a parent, you know, in that moment to just lose it. How Yeah, you

moment to just lose it. How Yeah, you moment to just lose it. How Yeah, you think you had a hard day. Let me tell think you had a hard day. Let me tell think you had a hard day. Let me tell you about my day. And you know, get back you about my day. And you know, get back you about my day. And you know, get back into it with them. Well, if you find into it with them. Well, if you find into it with them. Well, if you find yourself doing that and maybe yelling yourself doing that and maybe yelling yourself doing that and maybe yelling back at them, okay, one, you are back at them, okay, one, you are back at them, okay, one, you are actually the adult in the room. And so actually the adult in the room. And so actually the adult in the room. And so you, you know, it's it's good for you to you, you know, it's it's good for you to you, you know, it's it's good for you to acknowledge, hey, I yelled. I shouldn't acknowledge, hey, I yelled. I shouldn't acknowledge, hey, I yelled. I shouldn't have yelled. And and I'm sorry. And and have yelled. And and I'm sorry. And and have yelled. And and I'm sorry. And and to really own it. Don't say, well, you to really own it. Don't say, well, you to really own it. Don't say, well, you made me yell because you came in was I made me yell because you came in was I made me yell because you came in was I mean, that is not an apology. Okay? We mean, that is not an apology. Okay? We mean, that is not an apology. Okay? We need to get really good at giving a need to get really good at giving a need to get really good at giving a really truthful apology where we own our really truthful apology where we own our really truthful apology where we own our mistakes. I think some parents feel like mistakes. I think some parents feel like mistakes. I think some parents feel like I oh I might lose ground with them if I I oh I might lose ground with them if I I oh I might lose ground with them if I do that. I want to say what you will do do that. I want to say what you will do do that. I want to say what you will do is you will model to them what to do is you will model to them what to do is you will model to them what to do when you make a mistake. And then what when you make a mistake. And then what when you make a mistake. And then what you're going to watch happen in your you're going to watch happen in your you're going to watch happen in your home. Your kids are going to actually home. Your kids are going to actually home. Your kids are going to actually know how to give a good apology. And know how to give a good apology. And know how to give a good apology. And you're going to start to see them give you're going to start to see them give you're going to start to see them give apologies to to one another. I'm apologies to to one another. I'm apologies to to one another. I'm laughing because I just thought of we we laughing because I just thought of we we laughing because I just thought of we we have a son-in-law Andrew who's here too have a son-in-law Andrew who's here too have a son-in-law Andrew who's here too and he goes, "You guys apologize so fast and he goes, "You guys apologize so fast and he goes, "You guys apologize so fast to your family. You need to let it to your family. You need to let it to your family. You need to let it simmer a little more."

simmer a little more." simmer a little more." I was like, we can work on that, Andrew. I was like, we can work on that, Andrew. I was like, we can work on that, Andrew. Don't worry. Don't worry. Don't worry. But it's it really it really does matter But it's it really it really does matter But it's it really it really does matter that we as a parents give good that we as a parents give good that we as a parents give good apologies. And I just want to say as you apologies. And I just want to say as you apologies. And I just want to say as you think about the idols of our age, again, think about the idols of our age, again, think about the idols of our age, again, we often think um in culture things. I we often think um in culture things. I we often think um in culture things. I just want to say if I want to just put just want to say if I want to just put just want to say if I want to just put them out here. I really explore more in them out here. I really explore more in them out here. I really explore more in the book, but I think we need to take a the book, but I think we need to take a the book, but I think we need to take a hard look at how we view scholarship and hard look at how we view scholarship and hard look at how we view scholarship and affluence um sports and activities and affluence um sports and activities and affluence um sports and activities and social approval and acceptance. I think social approval and acceptance. I think social approval and acceptance. I think that is like groundwater contamination that is like groundwater contamination that is like groundwater contamination on most of our parenting. And it is on most of our parenting. And it is on most of our parenting. And it is those things that don't seem that bad. those things that don't seem that bad. those things that don't seem that bad. And you know, they're like, well, why is And you know, they're like, well, why is And you know, they're like, well, why is it bad that my kids making straight A's? it bad that my kids making straight A's? it bad that my kids making straight A's? It could really be bad if they think It could really be bad if they think It could really be bad if they think that's your biggest goal for their life. that's your biggest goal for their life. that's your biggest goal for their life. It could that that is an idol in your It could that that is an idol in your It could that that is an idol in your life and you are actually pointing them life and you are actually pointing them life and you are actually pointing them down a path that is not life. There is down a path that is not life. There is down a path that is not life. There is no life in making straight A's. There is no life in making straight A's. There is no life in making straight A's. There is life in knowing and following Jesus. So, life in knowing and following Jesus. So, life in knowing and following Jesus. So, we've got to be careful as parents, what we've got to be careful as parents, what we've got to be careful as parents, what am I what if I had to go home and ask my am I what if I had to go home and ask my am I what if I had to go home and ask my 12-year-old, what do you think I think 12-year-old, what do you think I think 12-year-old, what do you think I think is most important in your life? What is most important in your life? What is most important in your life? What would they say? It's a good question for would they say? It's a good question for would they say? It's a good question for us to all ask ourselves. Yeah, that's a us to all ask ourselves. Yeah, that's a us to all ask ourselves. Yeah, that's a scary question. No, I'm not asking them.

scary question. No, I'm not asking them. scary question. No, I'm not asking them. Yeah, I'm not going to ask that Yeah, I'm not going to ask that Yeah, I'm not going to ask that question. Thank you. Okay, third question. Thank you. Okay, third question. Thank you. Okay, third principle of our seven. Don't principle of our seven. Don't principle of our seven. Don't underestimate the power of the basics. underestimate the power of the basics. underestimate the power of the basics. Don't underestimate the power of the Don't underestimate the power of the Don't underestimate the power of the basics. So, when you think about basics. So, when you think about basics. So, when you think about parenting, all of us are like this and parenting, all of us are like this and parenting, all of us are like this and I'm like this. We want we want a formula I'm like this. We want we want a formula I'm like this. We want we want a formula that that is sort of like that no one's that that is sort of like that no one's that that is sort of like that no one's thought of before. And every time you thought of before. And every time you thought of before. And every time you read a parenting book, you may be read a parenting book, you may be read a parenting book, you may be thinking, well, this is finally the thinking, well, this is finally the thinking, well, this is finally the solution I've been been wanting. sort of solution I've been been wanting. sort of solution I've been been wanting. sort of magic bullet that solves my my parenting magic bullet that solves my my parenting magic bullet that solves my my parenting challenges. But I think what we all challenges. But I think what we all challenges. But I think what we all realize is actually the basics have just realize is actually the basics have just realize is actually the basics have just been the basics for a long time in the been the basics for a long time in the been the basics for a long time in the Christian life and they're really not Christian life and they're really not Christian life and they're really not going to change. And the analogy here is going to change. And the analogy here is going to change. And the analogy here is like losing weight. Like if someone like losing weight. Like if someone like losing weight. Like if someone says, "What do you have to do to lose says, "What do you have to do to lose says, "What do you have to do to lose weight?" Have you ever noticed the weight?" Have you ever noticed the weight?" Have you ever noticed the answer is always the same other than answer is always the same other than answer is always the same other than wovi or something like that. The normal wovi or something like that. The normal wovi or something like that. The normal way you lose weight is diet and way you lose weight is diet and way you lose weight is diet and exercise. And when they ask you 5 years exercise. And when they ask you 5 years exercise. And when they ask you 5 years from now, the answer is not going to from now, the answer is not going to from now, the answer is not going to change. It's diet and exercise. In other change. It's diet and exercise. In other change. It's diet and exercise. In other words, the basics are basics for a words, the basics are basics for a words, the basics are basics for a reason. Uh because they actually work.

reason. Uh because they actually work. reason. Uh because they actually work. Um and one of the things we want to say Um and one of the things we want to say Um and one of the things we want to say about parenting is don't miss the about parenting is don't miss the about parenting is don't miss the basics. Don't don't overlook the basics. basics. Don't don't overlook the basics. basics. Don't don't overlook the basics. So Melissa, what are some of the basics So Melissa, what are some of the basics So Melissa, what are some of the basics that you bring up in the book? Some of that you bring up in the book? Some of that you bring up in the book? Some of the things that every parent wants to the things that every parent wants to the things that every parent wants to make sure that they're busy with with make sure that they're busy with with make sure that they're busy with with their kids. Yeah. I think sometimes we their kids. Yeah. I think sometimes we their kids. Yeah. I think sometimes we overlook these because you're like, "Oh, overlook these because you're like, "Oh, overlook these because you're like, "Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, we need the yeah, of course. I mean, we need the yeah, of course. I mean, we need the word, we need prayer, we need church." word, we need prayer, we need church." word, we need prayer, we need church." And we really discount the power of what And we really discount the power of what And we really discount the power of what those do. But what I like to say um those do. But what I like to say um those do. But what I like to say um these are what are called often means of these are what are called often means of these are what are called often means of grace in the life of a believer. So if grace in the life of a believer. So if grace in the life of a believer. So if if we want to understand how does God's if we want to understand how does God's if we want to understand how does God's power work in our lives, he created power work in our lives, he created power work in our lives, he created means by which he has called us to do means by which he has called us to do means by which he has called us to do not for legalistic reasons, not for you not for legalistic reasons, not for you not for legalistic reasons, not for you know to be righteous but he said no this know to be righteous but he said no this know to be righteous but he said no this is how your soul works properly. you you is how your soul works properly. you you is how your soul works properly. you you need to be planted in my word. You need need to be planted in my word. You need need to be planted in my word. You need to be a people of prayer and you need to to be a people of prayer and you need to to be a people of prayer and you need to be a people who go to church. And and I be a people who go to church. And and I be a people who go to church. And and I think what's interesting is everybody think what's interesting is everybody think what's interesting is everybody wants this magic bullet, right? You wants this magic bullet, right? You wants this magic bullet, right? You know, they think, "Oh, I want the know, they think, "Oh, I want the know, they think, "Oh, I want the secret. I want you to tell me the secret. I want you to tell me the secret. I want you to tell me the secret." And I feel like, well, the secret." And I feel like, well, the secret." And I feel like, well, the Bible is trying to tell you the secret.

Bible is trying to tell you the secret. Bible is trying to tell you the secret. Um, you know, it's it's telling you, Um, you know, it's it's telling you, Um, you know, it's it's telling you, "Hey, read this book. Don't listen to to "Hey, read this book. Don't listen to to "Hey, read this book. Don't listen to to the gazillion podcasts and all the stuff the gazillion podcasts and all the stuff the gazillion podcasts and all the stuff out there. Don't plant yourself. Blessed out there. Don't plant yourself. Blessed out there. Don't plant yourself. Blessed is the man whose delight is in the law is the man whose delight is in the law is the man whose delight is in the law of the Lord. Whatever he does prospers. of the Lord. Whatever he does prospers. of the Lord. Whatever he does prospers. Psalm one. That's where we start. Psalm one. That's where we start. Psalm one. That's where we start. Whatever he does prosper, plant yourself Whatever he does prosper, plant yourself Whatever he does prosper, plant yourself there. Pray. Because guess what? Just there. Pray. Because guess what? Just there. Pray. Because guess what? Just like John Piper said, you cannot make a like John Piper said, you cannot make a like John Piper said, you cannot make a dead person come alive. It is actually dead person come alive. It is actually dead person come alive. It is actually impossible. You all of your arguing impossible. You all of your arguing impossible. You all of your arguing about why Jesus was resurrected will about why Jesus was resurrected will about why Jesus was resurrected will never convince your 14-year-old. That is never convince your 14-year-old. That is never convince your 14-year-old. That is not but but you know what will God's not but but you know what will God's not but but you know what will God's Holy Spirit will can give them a new Holy Spirit will can give them a new Holy Spirit will can give them a new heart. That is why we pray from the heart. That is why we pray from the heart. That is why we pray from the moment we even think about having moment we even think about having moment we even think about having children. We have to be people who pray. children. We have to be people who pray. children. We have to be people who pray. And then the church kids are lonelier And then the church kids are lonelier And then the church kids are lonelier than ever. If you look at all the stat than ever. If you look at all the stat than ever. If you look at all the stat statistics and the statistics also tell statistics and the statistics also tell statistics and the statistics also tell us that kids who regularly go to church us that kids who regularly go to church us that kids who regularly go to church have better mental health. They have have better mental health. They have have better mental health. They have better social health. their lives are better social health. their lives are better social health. their lives are blessed by just the activity of going to blessed by just the activity of going to blessed by just the activity of going to church. And I'm telling you, you know, church. And I'm telling you, you know, church. And I'm telling you, you know, just you need to have a conversation just you need to have a conversation just you need to have a conversation about sports and activities because I about sports and activities because I about sports and activities because I think that good thing is how is getting think that good thing is how is getting think that good thing is how is getting in way of the best thing. Church is the in way of the best thing. Church is the in way of the best thing. Church is the community your children need way more community your children need way more community your children need way more than baseball. Um that is not a popular than baseball. Um that is not a popular than baseball. Um that is not a popular opinion right now, but the the reality opinion right now, but the the reality opinion right now, but the the reality is sometimes it's good things that are is sometimes it's good things that are is sometimes it's good things that are getting away the best thing. And so getting away the best thing. And so getting away the best thing. And so these are the faithful ways our children

these are the faithful ways our children these are the faithful ways our children are going to grow. And it's us being in are going to grow. And it's us being in are going to grow. And it's us being in the word, us being in prayer, and us the word, us being in prayer, and us the word, us being in prayer, and us being in church and modeling that before being in church and modeling that before being in church and modeling that before our kids. You know, one of the things our kids. You know, one of the things our kids. You know, one of the things that we've learned over the years that we've learned over the years that we've learned over the years raising our kids is, you know, there raising our kids is, you know, there raising our kids is, you know, there there's a there's a great and wonderful there's a there's a great and wonderful there's a there's a great and wonderful place for sports and activities, and place for sports and activities, and place for sports and activities, and those can be a blessing in their own those can be a blessing in their own those can be a blessing in their own right, for sure. But but we also notice right, for sure. But but we also notice right, for sure. But but we also notice too that that those come and go and they too that that those come and go and they too that that those come and go and they often change. And I I can't tell you how often change. And I I can't tell you how often change. And I I can't tell you how much time we spent on certain sports much time we spent on certain sports much time we spent on certain sports kids and they don't ever think about kids and they don't ever think about kids and they don't ever think about them anymore or ever talk about them them anymore or ever talk about them them anymore or ever talk about them again. And I'm not saying there weren't again. And I'm not saying there weren't again. And I'm not saying there weren't lessons learned there that are helpful lessons learned there that are helpful lessons learned there that are helpful for sure. But but but the word of God, for sure. But but but the word of God, for sure. But but but the word of God, they'll remember that. Uh praying they'll remember that. Uh praying they'll remember that. Uh praying together as a family, they'll remember together as a family, they'll remember together as a family, they'll remember that. The influence of church over many that. The influence of church over many that. The influence of church over many many years, you know, if they can't many years, you know, if they can't many years, you know, if they can't recall the particulars that that'll recall the particulars that that'll recall the particulars that that'll that'll shape them. And I think that's that'll shape them. And I think that's that'll shape them. And I think that's part of what we want to ask as a family. part of what we want to ask as a family. part of what we want to ask as a family. Those other things in life are good Those other things in life are good Those other things in life are good things. We're not saying don't do them. things. We're not saying don't do them. things. We're not saying don't do them. We're just saying that have them in We're just saying that have them in We're just saying that have them in their proper place and make sure that their proper place and make sure that their proper place and make sure that the main thing is always the main thing. the main thing is always the main thing. the main thing is always the main thing. And the basics are basics for a reason. And the basics are basics for a reason. And the basics are basics for a reason. And so, back to my weight loss analogy, And so, back to my weight loss analogy, And so, back to my weight loss analogy, let stick with diet and exercise and let stick with diet and exercise and let stick with diet and exercise and forego the quick fix, right? The quick forego the quick fix, right? The quick forego the quick fix, right? The quick fix is go for the drug that can make you fix is go for the drug that can make you fix is go for the drug that can make you lose weight. And that's the best way to lose weight. And that's the best way to lose weight. And that's the best way to do it. And and we think about that with do it. And and we think about that with do it. And and we think about that with parenting sometimes. It's like, okay, parenting sometimes. It's like, okay, parenting sometimes. It's like, okay, I'm just going to forego the basics and I'm just going to forego the basics and I'm just going to forego the basics and go some other new fangled route. But the go some other new fangled route. But the go some other new fangled route. But the basics are basics for a reason. And I basics are basics for a reason. And I basics are basics for a reason. And I think God really has those in place uh think God really has those in place uh think God really has those in place uh over the long haul. Now, one one thing I over the long haul. Now, one one thing I over the long haul. Now, one one thing I know that happens with families when it know that happens with families when it know that happens with families when it comes to the basics, thinking, "Yeah, comes to the basics, thinking, "Yeah, comes to the basics, thinking, "Yeah, but I don't really I'm not a good but I don't really I'm not a good but I don't really I'm not a good teacher of the Bible or I I never been teacher of the Bible or I I never been teacher of the Bible or I I never been to seminary or I don't know how to lead to seminary or I don't know how to lead to seminary or I don't know how to lead a a home devotional or or maybe you're a a home devotional or or maybe you're a a home devotional or or maybe you're at a point in parenting where your kids

at a point in parenting where your kids at a point in parenting where your kids are 14, 15, and 16 and you've never done are 14, 15, and 16 and you've never done are 14, 15, and 16 and you've never done this at all and you're like now it's far this at all and you're like now it's far this at all and you're like now it's far too late to start, right?" Well, no. You too late to start, right?" Well, no. You too late to start, right?" Well, no. You don't have to be a trained pastor or don't have to be a trained pastor or don't have to be a trained pastor or theologian. You don't have to have done theologian. You don't have to have done theologian. You don't have to have done it for 20 years. If you're starting late it for 20 years. If you're starting late it for 20 years. If you're starting late to the game as a parent, just go to your to the game as a parent, just go to your to the game as a parent, just go to your kids and say, "Hey, we're we're kids and say, "Hey, we're we're kids and say, "Hey, we're we're recognizing that if we could go back in recognizing that if we could go back in recognizing that if we could go back in time, we we would have done things time, we we would have done things time, we we would have done things differently and and we don't want to differently and and we don't want to differently and and we don't want to lose out on what God has for us." And lose out on what God has for us." And lose out on what God has for us." And so, yeah, we haven't been doing this up so, yeah, we haven't been doing this up so, yeah, we haven't been doing this up till now, but we really want to start till now, but we really want to start till now, but we really want to start new trends as a family and just own it new trends as a family and just own it new trends as a family and just own it and just start fresh. Uh, and I think and just start fresh. Uh, and I think and just start fresh. Uh, and I think God will bless that uh in amazing ways. God will bless that uh in amazing ways. God will bless that uh in amazing ways. Any other thoughts on on on family Any other thoughts on on on family Any other thoughts on on on family devotionals before we move on to our devotionals before we move on to our devotionals before we move on to our next principle? Uh, I I always just say next principle? Uh, I I always just say next principle? Uh, I I always just say um patterns over perfection. So don't um patterns over perfection. So don't um patterns over perfection. So don't think that you you know oh you know we think that you you know oh you know we think that you you know oh you know we keep trying and stopping trying and keep trying and stopping trying and keep trying and stopping trying and stopping just you know find a time for stopping just you know find a time for stopping just you know find a time for us it was family breakfast worked the us it was family breakfast worked the us it was family breakfast worked the best time it didn't happen every day but best time it didn't happen every day but best time it didn't happen every day but it happened all it was the pattern of it happened all it was the pattern of it happened all it was the pattern of our home and I think just keeping that our home and I think just keeping that our home and I think just keeping that mindset and and it's amazing what 10 mindset and and it's amazing what 10 mindset and and it's amazing what 10 minutes a day over years and years and minutes a day over years and years and minutes a day over years and years and years not perfectly can do in a family.

years not perfectly can do in a family. years not perfectly can do in a family. Okay, principle number four. Principle Okay, principle number four. Principle Okay, principle number four. Principle number four, parental warmth promotes number four, parental warmth promotes number four, parental warmth promotes healthy community in the home. Parental healthy community in the home. Parental healthy community in the home. Parental warmth promotes healthy community in the warmth promotes healthy community in the warmth promotes healthy community in the home. One one of the things that that home. One one of the things that that home. One one of the things that that that has dawned on us over the years as that has dawned on us over the years as that has dawned on us over the years as parents is that when we talk about parents is that when we talk about parents is that when we talk about community in the Christian life, we community in the Christian life, we community in the Christian life, we usually talk about community in terms of usually talk about community in terms of usually talk about community in terms of the church, right? How to create a good the church, right? How to create a good the church, right? How to create a good community in your church or how to community in your church or how to community in your church or how to create a good community in your home create a good community in your home create a good community in your home Bible study or something like this. and Bible study or something like this. and Bible study or something like this. and a lot of effort, a lot of manpower, a a lot of effort, a lot of manpower, a a lot of effort, a lot of manpower, a lot of prayer, a lot of time, a lot of lot of prayer, a lot of time, a lot of lot of prayer, a lot of time, a lot of thought goes into how to create good thought goes into how to create good thought goes into how to create good community where people feel warm and community where people feel warm and community where people feel warm and welcomed and nurtured. What we didn't welcomed and nurtured. What we didn't welcomed and nurtured. What we didn't realize is we've never actually had that realize is we've never actually had that realize is we've never actually had that conversation about our family. What what conversation about our family. What what conversation about our family. What what are we doing to create good community as are we doing to create good community as are we doing to create good community as a family so that it's warm and nurturing a family so that it's warm and nurturing a family so that it's warm and nurturing and welcoming to the family and in and welcoming to the family and in and welcoming to the family and in particular to the children. And that had particular to the children. And that had particular to the children. And that had never dawned on us. And I think never dawned on us. And I think never dawned on us. And I think retrospectively as we look back, we're retrospectively as we look back, we're retrospectively as we look back, we're thankful that even having not thought thankful that even having not thought thankful that even having not thought all that through, God still blessed what all that through, God still blessed what all that through, God still blessed what we were doing. But I think one of the we were doing. But I think one of the we were doing. But I think one of the things we discovered is steps have to be things we discovered is steps have to be things we discovered is steps have to be taken to think about creating that warm taken to think about creating that warm taken to think about creating that warm environment and and Melissa in your book environment and and Melissa in your book environment and and Melissa in your book you you actually learned some you you actually learned some you you actually learned some interesting things about warm family interesting things about warm family interesting things about warm family warmth. Why don't you share something warmth. Why don't you share something warmth. Why don't you share something about that? So I was a um my training about that? So I was a um my training about that? So I was a um my training was in high school education. I was a was in high school education. I was a was in high school education. I was a high school math teacher um and we had high school math teacher um and we had high school math teacher um and we had to do a lot of teen development in my to do a lot of teen development in my to do a lot of teen development in my classes. And one thing that um there's a classes. And one thing that um there's a classes. And one thing that um there's a quadrant um that talks about different quadrant um that talks about different quadrant um that talks about different parenting styles. There's authoritarian, parenting styles. There's authoritarian, parenting styles. There's authoritarian, authoritative, permissive, and authoritative, permissive, and authoritative, permissive, and negligent. Um, and so I would say what negligent. Um, and so I would say what negligent. Um, and so I would say what most of us struggle between are most of us struggle between are most of us struggle between are permissive and authoritarian. Um, okay,

permissive and authoritarian. Um, okay, permissive and authoritarian. Um, okay, I'm supposed to be in charge or, oh, I I'm supposed to be in charge or, oh, I I'm supposed to be in charge or, oh, I don't want to be that in charge parent, don't want to be that in charge parent, don't want to be that in charge parent, so I'm just going to let the child do so I'm just going to let the child do so I'm just going to let the child do whatever they they want to do. Well, in whatever they they want to do. Well, in whatever they they want to do. Well, in between those is what's called between those is what's called between those is what's called authoritative. And I like to call that a authoritative. And I like to call that a authoritative. And I like to call that a shepherd parent, mainly because shepherd parent, mainly because shepherd parent, mainly because authoritative and authoritarian are authoritative and authoritarian are authoritative and authoritarian are really easy to get confused. And I I really easy to get confused. And I I really easy to get confused. And I I call the authoritarian more a doineering call the authoritarian more a doineering call the authoritarian more a doineering parent. This is a little more my way or parent. This is a little more my way or parent. This is a little more my way or the highway type parenting. Studies have the highway type parenting. Studies have the highway type parenting. Studies have shown permissive and authoritarian or shown permissive and authoritarian or shown permissive and authoritarian or doineering don't really have good doineering don't really have good doineering don't really have good outcomes typically um for for children outcomes typically um for for children outcomes typically um for for children responding to faith and different things responding to faith and different things responding to faith and different things like that. What we want to create are like that. What we want to create are like that. What we want to create are homes where there are high expectations homes where there are high expectations homes where there are high expectations and high degrees of warmth. So, it's and high degrees of warmth. So, it's and high degrees of warmth. So, it's it's by no means lowering expectations, it's by no means lowering expectations, it's by no means lowering expectations, but what it is is saying, "Hey, we're but what it is is saying, "Hey, we're but what it is is saying, "Hey, we're going to have rules in this home and going to have rules in this home and going to have rules in this home and we're going to have consequences, but we're going to have consequences, but we're going to have consequences, but what you're never going to lose is my what you're never going to lose is my what you're never going to lose is my love." And so, one thing I think we have love." And so, one thing I think we have love." And so, one thing I think we have to be really careful about even in to be really careful about even in to be really careful about even in discipline is that sometimes as our kids discipline is that sometimes as our kids discipline is that sometimes as our kids get older, I think we think, "Oh, I'll get older, I think we think, "Oh, I'll get older, I think we think, "Oh, I'll remove warmth. I'll just get really mad remove warmth. I'll just get really mad remove warmth. I'll just get really mad at them and be cold and that's the at them and be cold and that's the at them and be cold and that's the discipline." And that's a really bad discipline." And that's a really bad discipline." And that's a really bad way. I mean, we know what the Lord says.

way. I mean, we know what the Lord says. way. I mean, we know what the Lord says. It's his kindness that brings us to It's his kindness that brings us to It's his kindness that brings us to repentance. So what we always want to be repentance. So what we always want to be repentance. So what we always want to be doing is looking at our children with doing is looking at our children with doing is looking at our children with deep love and affection and bearing deep love and affection and bearing deep love and affection and bearing fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentle, you know, all those kindness, gentle, you know, all those kindness, gentle, you know, all those need to accompany whatever discipline need to accompany whatever discipline need to accompany whatever discipline we're giving. So we still give we're giving. So we still give we're giving. So we still give discipline. We still provide discipline. We still provide discipline. We still provide consequences, but we want to create an consequences, but we want to create an consequences, but we want to create an environment that's really warm and environment that's really warm and environment that's really warm and loving to do that. Um, one of the best loving to do that. Um, one of the best loving to do that. Um, one of the best pieces of advice, I'm a little bit pieces of advice, I'm a little bit pieces of advice, I'm a little bit embarrassed where I got it from. It was embarrassed where I got it from. It was embarrassed where I got it from. It was actually an Oprah Winfrey interview with actually an Oprah Winfrey interview with actually an Oprah Winfrey interview with um Okay, we'll just wrap this up right um Okay, we'll just wrap this up right um Okay, we'll just wrap this up right here. So, it was with Tony Morrison and here. So, it was with Tony Morrison and here. So, it was with Tony Morrison and you can go online and look at it. And you can go online and look at it. And you can go online and look at it. And she was talking about parenting and her she was talking about parenting and her she was talking about parenting and her question was, "Do you light up when they question was, "Do you light up when they question was, "Do you light up when they walk in the room?" walk in the room?" walk in the room?" Your kids. Your kids. Yeah. And so Your kids. Your kids. Yeah. And so Your kids. Your kids. Yeah. And so that's true. You know, a two-year-old that's true. You know, a two-year-old that's true. You know, a two-year-old walks in and maybe they're really cute, walks in and maybe they're really cute, walks in and maybe they're really cute, you know, whatever. you light up and you know, whatever. you light up and you know, whatever. you light up and then as they go through different stages then as they go through different stages then as they go through different stages I think we forget to light up when they I think we forget to light up when they I think we forget to light up when they walk in the room and she said you know walk in the room and she said you know walk in the room and she said you know you're always looking at your kid with you're always looking at your kid with you're always looking at your kid with this critical oh you need to tighten this critical oh you need to tighten this critical oh you need to tighten your belt you need to pull up your pants your belt you need to pull up your pants your belt you need to pull up your pants you need to you know fix your shirt we you need to you know fix your shirt we you need to you know fix your shirt we see what's wrong first rather than when see what's wrong first rather than when see what's wrong first rather than when they walk in the room put your phone they walk in the room put your phone they walk in the room put your phone down and say hey I'm so glad to see you down and say hey I'm so glad to see you down and say hey I'm so glad to see you know do we still greet them with that know do we still greet them with that know do we still greet them with that I'm so glad you're alive and you're in I'm so glad you're alive and you're in I'm so glad you're alive and you're in my life. That wonder of getting to be my life. That wonder of getting to be my life. That wonder of getting to be their parent. I think that would do so their parent. I think that would do so their parent. I think that would do so much to create that warmth. If they just

much to create that warmth. If they just much to create that warmth. If they just knew when they walked in a room, we lit knew when they walked in a room, we lit knew when they walked in a room, we lit up and that they were the most important up and that they were the most important up and that they were the most important thing to us in that room. No, that's thing to us in that room. No, that's thing to us in that room. No, that's gold. I I you know, I I think that's gold. I I you know, I I think that's gold. I I you know, I I think that's just one of the big takeaways is is just one of the big takeaways is is just one of the big takeaways is is that's the way God thinks of us, right? that's the way God thinks of us, right? that's the way God thinks of us, right? I think about the the the parable of the I think about the the the parable of the I think about the the the parable of the prodigal son. And even though it's not prodigal son. And even though it's not prodigal son. And even though it's not an exact analogy because we're not an exact analogy because we're not an exact analogy because we're not talking about someone who rebelss, that talking about someone who rebelss, that talking about someone who rebelss, that father's disposition towards his son is father's disposition towards his son is father's disposition towards his son is exactly at just the I'm going to run and exactly at just the I'm going to run and exactly at just the I'm going to run and greet you and hug you. You're mine and I greet you and hug you. You're mine and I greet you and hug you. You're mine and I love you. Okay. Principle number five. love you. Okay. Principle number five. love you. Okay. Principle number five. Principle number five, lead with a Principle number five, lead with a Principle number five, lead with a conversation, not with a command. Lead conversation, not with a command. Lead conversation, not with a command. Lead with a conversation, not with a command. with a conversation, not with a command. with a conversation, not with a command. So this is a little bit analogous and So this is a little bit analogous and So this is a little bit analogous and flowing from Melissa's prior point, flowing from Melissa's prior point, flowing from Melissa's prior point, which is about healthy community. But which is about healthy community. But which is about healthy community. But one of the things that's true is the one of the things that's true is the one of the things that's true is the Bible's filled with commands. Nothing Bible's filled with commands. Nothing Bible's filled with commands. Nothing wrong with that. It's also true that wrong with that. It's also true that wrong with that. It's also true that it's perfectly okay for parents to give it's perfectly okay for parents to give it's perfectly okay for parents to give commands to their children. I think commands to their children. I think commands to their children. I think though that's going to look different at though that's going to look different at though that's going to look different at different ages and as the child grows, different ages and as the child grows, different ages and as the child grows, the sort of order you around phase is the sort of order you around phase is the sort of order you around phase is going to diminish and the conversation going to diminish and the conversation going to diminish and the conversation phase is going to increase. And so as phase is going to increase. And so as phase is going to increase. And so as you all think about moving out of the you all think about moving out of the you all think about moving out of the younger kid years and into the teenage younger kid years and into the teenage younger kid years and into the teenage years, the command versus conversation years, the command versus conversation years, the command versus conversation is a dynamic that has to be be looked is a dynamic that has to be be looked is a dynamic that has to be be looked at. Say more about that, Melissa. Yeah.

at. Say more about that, Melissa. Yeah. at. Say more about that, Melissa. Yeah. I mean, I think when you have a I mean, I think when you have a I mean, I think when you have a two-year-old, it's totally fine to be two-year-old, it's totally fine to be two-year-old, it's totally fine to be like, "Do not run in the street." You like, "Do not run in the street." You like, "Do not run in the street." You know, you you don't have a conversation. know, you you don't have a conversation. know, you you don't have a conversation. It's, you know, give them the command. It's, you know, give them the command. It's, you know, give them the command. You don't ask them what they think about You don't ask them what they think about You don't ask them what they think about what do you think about running in the what do you think about running in the what do you think about running in the street. You know, why why do you want to street. You know, why why do you want to street. You know, why why do you want to run into the street? How do you feel run into the street? How do you feel run into the street? How do you feel about the street? Why do you want to Is about the street? Why do you want to Is about the street? Why do you want to Is the street attractive to you? Do you the street attractive to you? Do you the street attractive to you? Do you find it wonderful? You don't have to do find it wonderful? You don't have to do find it wonderful? You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. You that. You don't have to do that. You that. You don't have to do that. You just say, "Don't run in the street." But just say, "Don't run in the street." But just say, "Don't run in the street." But when kids get older and they're saying when kids get older and they're saying when kids get older and they're saying things like, "Hey, I really want a cell things like, "Hey, I really want a cell things like, "Hey, I really want a cell phone." Um it can be just tempting to be phone." Um it can be just tempting to be phone." Um it can be just tempting to be like, "Nope, the rule is we don't do like, "Nope, the rule is we don't do like, "Nope, the rule is we don't do cell phones till 16 or you don't date cell phones till 16 or you don't date cell phones till 16 or you don't date till you're 16." It's just the rule. Um till you're 16." It's just the rule. Um till you're 16." It's just the rule. Um or 25 either one. So or 30. Yeah, we're or 25 either one. So or 30. Yeah, we're or 25 either one. So or 30. Yeah, we're 30. So um but I I think it's really 30. So um but I I think it's really 30. So um but I I think it's really helpful at that age to start asking helpful at that age to start asking helpful at that age to start asking questions. Well, tell me tell me why you questions. Well, tell me tell me why you questions. Well, tell me tell me why you want a cell phone so much. And then you want a cell phone so much. And then you want a cell phone so much. And then you might hear the reasons. And so maybe might hear the reasons. And so maybe might hear the reasons. And so maybe together you can come to a good together you can come to a good together you can come to a good solution. Um maybe maybe they're not solution. Um maybe maybe they're not solution. Um maybe maybe they're not getting any texts. that is how getting any texts. that is how getting any texts. that is how everybody's finding out that people are everybody's finding out that people are everybody's finding out that people are going for ice cream and they never know going for ice cream and they never know going for ice cream and they never know and so socially they feel like they and so socially they feel like they and so socially they feel like they don't know everybody. So it's a it's don't know everybody. So it's a it's don't know everybody. So it's a it's good to understand what's the reason good to understand what's the reason good to understand what's the reason they want something because maybe you they want something because maybe you they want something because maybe you can come to a creative solution. Um, can come to a creative solution. Um, can come to a creative solution. Um, again, and and I do want to stress this.

again, and and I do want to stress this. again, and and I do want to stress this. Obviously, when it comes to God's Obviously, when it comes to God's Obviously, when it comes to God's commands, those are fixed, right? I commands, those are fixed, right? I commands, those are fixed, right? I mean, those don't change. So, we're not mean, those don't change. So, we're not mean, those don't change. So, we're not talking about those, but every home has talking about those, but every home has talking about those, but every home has house rules. Um, you know, when do you house rules. Um, you know, when do you house rules. Um, you know, when do you get a cell phone, when are you going to get a cell phone, when are you going to get a cell phone, when are you going to date, when are you, you know, how late date, when are you, you know, how late date, when are you, you know, how late can you stay out at night, different can you stay out at night, different can you stay out at night, different things like that. Those rules, here's things like that. Those rules, here's things like that. Those rules, here's what I want to give you this piece of what I want to give you this piece of what I want to give you this piece of freedom. You can change your mind. Um, freedom. You can change your mind. Um, freedom. You can change your mind. Um, it's really, you know, you can realize, it's really, you know, you can realize, it's really, you know, you can realize, huh, we made a really bad call on this, huh, we made a really bad call on this, huh, we made a really bad call on this, and you are actually allowed to say, and you are actually allowed to say, and you are actually allowed to say, "Yeah, we thought we were going to wait "Yeah, we thought we were going to wait "Yeah, we thought we were going to wait until 25 to let you date, but we decided until 25 to let you date, but we decided until 25 to let you date, but we decided that wasn't reasonable." You know, and that wasn't reasonable." You know, and that wasn't reasonable." You know, and you can you can actually change your you can you can actually change your you can you can actually change your mind on on those things. What do you mind on on those things. What do you mind on on those things. What do you want the age to go up? Is that count? want the age to go up? Is that count? want the age to go up? Is that count? Yeah. But and so I just I always want to Yeah. But and so I just I always want to Yeah. But and so I just I always want to say have the conversation. And here's say have the conversation. And here's say have the conversation. And here's why. um your child is, you know, even why. um your child is, you know, even why. um your child is, you know, even even starting at like 14, 15, you've got even starting at like 14, 15, you've got even starting at like 14, 15, you've got about four years left with them in your about four years left with them in your about four years left with them in your home. Having the conversation helps them home. Having the conversation helps them home. Having the conversation helps them learn how to make good choices when they learn how to make good choices when they learn how to make good choices when they go off and you're not there to have the go off and you're not there to have the go off and you're not there to have the conversation with them anymore. So, you conversation with them anymore. So, you conversation with them anymore. So, you want to invite them into that want to invite them into that want to invite them into that conversation with you so that they're conversation with you so that they're conversation with you so that they're understanding the thought process behind understanding the thought process behind understanding the thought process behind rules and so that they can actually rules and so that they can actually rules and so that they can actually start to make those for themselves. But start to make those for themselves. But start to make those for themselves. But having the conversation with them allows having the conversation with them allows having the conversation with them allows for that to happen. Um, it also allows for that to happen. Um, it also allows for that to happen. Um, it also allows for relationship to happen between the for relationship to happen between the for relationship to happen between the two of you. Um, when you when you're

two of you. Um, when you when you're two of you. Um, when you when you're having a a real a real conversation, not having a a real a real conversation, not having a a real a real conversation, not just to plate them, but to say, "Tell me just to plate them, but to say, "Tell me just to plate them, but to say, "Tell me a little bit more about why this is a little bit more about why this is a little bit more about why this is happen." Yeah. One one of the ways I happen." Yeah. One one of the ways I happen." Yeah. One one of the ways I think of it is is we spend most of our think of it is is we spend most of our think of it is is we spend most of our lives as parents asking our kids to lives as parents asking our kids to lives as parents asking our kids to listen to us, right? Um but as they age, listen to us, right? Um but as they age, listen to us, right? Um but as they age, we also want to make sure we're we also want to make sure we're we also want to make sure we're listening to them. Relationships are two listening to them. Relationships are two listening to them. Relationships are two two-way streets. Um so to riff off two-way streets. Um so to riff off two-way streets. Um so to riff off Hamilton a second, talk Hamilton a second, talk Hamilton a second, talk less, listen more, right? Or you could less, listen more, right? Or you could less, listen more, right? Or you could smile too. Talk less, smile more. Um smile too. Talk less, smile more. Um smile too. Talk less, smile more. Um there's a sense as parents that we want there's a sense as parents that we want there's a sense as parents that we want to think about not just giving speeches to think about not just giving speeches to think about not just giving speeches all the time, but really listening um all the time, but really listening um all the time, but really listening um and make sure we're taking that in. and make sure we're taking that in. and make sure we're taking that in. Okay, principle number six. This one's Okay, principle number six. This one's Okay, principle number six. This one's going to be a big one. Um and this is going to be a big one. Um and this is going to be a big one. Um and this is just one that we want to get on the just one that we want to get on the just one that we want to get on the table here as our time's getting closer table here as our time's getting closer table here as our time's getting closer to the end. Number six is this. You to the end. Number six is this. You to the end. Number six is this. You can't protect your kids from difficulty can't protect your kids from difficulty can't protect your kids from difficulty and suffering. You can't protect your and suffering. You can't protect your and suffering. You can't protect your kids from difficulty and suffering. Now, kids from difficulty and suffering. Now, kids from difficulty and suffering. Now, some of you may want to modify that and some of you may want to modify that and some of you may want to modify that and say, 'Well, maybe I can't protect them say, 'Well, maybe I can't protect them say, 'Well, maybe I can't protect them from all difficulty and suffering, but from all difficulty and suffering, but from all difficulty and suffering, but if I work really hard, I can reduce if I work really hard, I can reduce if I work really hard, I can reduce their difficulty and suffering as much their difficulty and suffering as much their difficulty and suffering as much as I possibly can. I would suggest to as I possibly can. I would suggest to as I possibly can. I would suggest to you that if we're honest with ourselves, you that if we're honest with ourselves, you that if we're honest with ourselves, one of our major parenting goals in life one of our major parenting goals in life one of our major parenting goals in life is to find every way to take everything is to find every way to take everything is to find every way to take everything difficult out of our kids' life as much difficult out of our kids' life as much difficult out of our kids' life as much as we can. And by the way, I don't think as we can. And by the way, I don't think as we can. And by the way, I don't think that's all misguided. I think there's that's all misguided. I think there's that's all misguided. I think there's legitimacy to that. We don't want to put legitimacy to that. We don't want to put legitimacy to that. We don't want to put our kids in unnecessary risks or our kids in unnecessary risks or our kids in unnecessary risks or dangers. and so forth. But I think the dangers. and so forth. But I think the dangers. and so forth. But I think the reality of living in a fallen world is

reality of living in a fallen world is reality of living in a fallen world is that that won't happen, first of all. that that won't happen, first of all. that that won't happen, first of all. And secondly, we're actually not And secondly, we're actually not And secondly, we're actually not preparing them for when it happens later preparing them for when it happens later preparing them for when it happens later and we're out of the picture. How do and we're out of the picture. How do and we're out of the picture. How do they know how to deal with life's they know how to deal with life's they know how to deal with life's difficulties and problems in life in a difficulties and problems in life in a difficulties and problems in life in a fallen world? So, this is a really key fallen world? So, this is a really key fallen world? So, this is a really key principle that we've had to learn over principle that we've had to learn over principle that we've had to learn over the years. What are some of your the years. What are some of your the years. What are some of your thoughts on that one, Melissa? Yeah. I thoughts on that one, Melissa? Yeah. I thoughts on that one, Melissa? Yeah. I mean, I think I mean, the reality is mean, I think I mean, the reality is mean, I think I mean, the reality is probably we could all go back to our ch probably we could all go back to our ch probably we could all go back to our ch childhood or teen years and remember childhood or teen years and remember childhood or teen years and remember certain lessons we learned because of certain lessons we learned because of certain lessons we learned because of failure in our life, whatever it may failure in our life, whatever it may failure in our life, whatever it may have been. And those are really have been. And those are really have been. And those are really important lessons and I would say are important lessons and I would say are important lessons and I would say are safer lessons to learn within the safer lessons to learn within the safer lessons to learn within the context of your home um than almost context of your home um than almost context of your home um than almost going through childhood with nothing going through childhood with nothing going through childhood with nothing hard ever happening. You know, there's hard ever happening. You know, there's hard ever happening. You know, there's something to learning that you're going something to learning that you're going something to learning that you're going to survive whether it's a breakup or a to survive whether it's a breakup or a to survive whether it's a breakup or a friend breakup or, you know, a bee, friend breakup or, you know, a bee, friend breakup or, you know, a bee, which right now seems like suffering in which right now seems like suffering in which right now seems like suffering in our school system. Um, you know, like our school system. Um, you know, like our school system. Um, you know, like that that you you can actually get past that that you you can actually get past that that you you can actually get past it. There's a really good book um by it. There's a really good book um by it. There's a really good book um by Maline Lavine. It's called The Price of Maline Lavine. It's called The Price of Maline Lavine. It's called The Price of Privilege. It's not a Christian book.

Privilege. It's not a Christian book. Privilege. It's not a Christian book. It's but it's it's she's just it's an It's but it's it's she's just it's an It's but it's it's she's just it's an excellent book. And this is what she excellent book. And this is what she excellent book. And this is what she says. Difficult as it can be for says. Difficult as it can be for says. Difficult as it can be for parents, it is imperative that we allow parents, it is imperative that we allow parents, it is imperative that we allow our children to go out into the world to our children to go out into the world to our children to go out into the world to try their hand to bang up against try their hand to bang up against try their hand to bang up against difficulties to learn how to fall down difficulties to learn how to fall down difficulties to learn how to fall down and then get up again. By allowing them and then get up again. By allowing them and then get up again. By allowing them to occasionally get bruised in to occasionally get bruised in to occasionally get bruised in childhood, we are helping to make childhood, we are helping to make childhood, we are helping to make certain they don't get broken in certain they don't get broken in certain they don't get broken in adolescence. And by allowing them their adolescence. And by allowing them their adolescence. And by allowing them their failures in adolescence, we are helping failures in adolescence, we are helping failures in adolescence, we are helping to lay the groundwork for success in to lay the groundwork for success in to lay the groundwork for success in adulthood. Um, and so really what we adulthood. Um, and so really what we adulthood. Um, and so really what we want to say to our kids is I can't want to say to our kids is I can't want to say to our kids is I can't protect you from hard things, but I am protect you from hard things, but I am protect you from hard things, but I am here with you. And you know, when we here with you. And you know, when we here with you. And you know, when we look through all the Old Testament, um, look through all the Old Testament, um, look through all the Old Testament, um, the the Lord whenever he comes to his the the Lord whenever he comes to his the the Lord whenever he comes to his people and says, "Do not fear." What he people and says, "Do not fear." What he people and says, "Do not fear." What he doesn't say is, "Don't fear because doesn't say is, "Don't fear because doesn't say is, "Don't fear because there's nothing hard." He doesn't say, there's nothing hard." He doesn't say, there's nothing hard." He doesn't say, "Don't fear because there aren't real "Don't fear because there aren't real "Don't fear because there aren't real giants in the land. Don't fear, you giants in the land. Don't fear, you giants in the land. Don't fear, you know, because difficulties don't know, because difficulties don't know, because difficulties don't happen." He says, "Fear not, for I am happen." He says, "Fear not, for I am happen." He says, "Fear not, for I am with you." And so what we want to model with you." And so what we want to model with you." And so what we want to model as parents, you know, when our kid is as parents, you know, when our kid is as parents, you know, when our kid is the only one who doesn't get invited to the only one who doesn't get invited to the only one who doesn't get invited to something that they really wanted to be something that they really wanted to be something that they really wanted to be invited. Um, you know, what we don't invited. Um, you know, what we don't invited. Um, you know, what we don't have to do is tell them how mean those have to do is tell them how mean those have to do is tell them how mean those other kids are or call the parent or other kids are or call the parent or other kids are or call the parent or solve the problem. We can just be there solve the problem. We can just be there solve the problem. We can just be there and we can just say, "Hey, I'm really and we can just say, "Hey, I'm really and we can just say, "Hey, I'm really sorry that this is hard. I'm but I'm sorry that this is hard. I'm but I'm sorry that this is hard. I'm but I'm here with you. You want to watch a movie here with you. You want to watch a movie here with you. You want to watch a movie with me tonight?" and they may say no, with me tonight?" and they may say no, with me tonight?" and they may say no, they don't want to. Um, but just being they don't want to. Um, but just being they don't want to. Um, but just being present. And I think just a few things I

present. And I think just a few things I present. And I think just a few things I will say, try not to belittle what will say, try not to belittle what will say, try not to belittle what they're going through. Um, it can be they're going through. Um, it can be they're going through. Um, it can be really tempting to be like, h, that's so really tempting to be like, h, that's so really tempting to be like, h, that's so silly. You're going to be fine. Don't silly. You're going to be fine. Don't silly. You're going to be fine. Don't don't for them, you know, try to don't for them, you know, try to don't for them, you know, try to remember what it was like the first time remember what it was like the first time remember what it was like the first time you got your heart broken or the first you got your heart broken or the first you got your heart broken or the first time, you know, a friend group left you time, you know, a friend group left you time, you know, a friend group left you out. In their world, it's huge. So to out. In their world, it's huge. So to out. In their world, it's huge. So to treat them with that kindness and that treat them with that kindness and that treat them with that kindness and that listening ear and just saying, "Hey, I'm listening ear and just saying, "Hey, I'm listening ear and just saying, "Hey, I'm here and I'll pray for you and and pray here and I'll pray for you and and pray here and I'll pray for you and and pray with them right then." Those things are with them right then." Those things are with them right then." Those things are the ways we can enter in without solving the ways we can enter in without solving the ways we can enter in without solving it, but saying, "I'm with you in it." So it, but saying, "I'm with you in it." So it, but saying, "I'm with you in it." So the the whole phenomenon of parents the the whole phenomenon of parents the the whole phenomenon of parents trying to fix everything in their trying to fix everything in their trying to fix everything in their child's life, protect their children child's life, protect their children child's life, protect their children from everything. A great example of this from everything. A great example of this from everything. A great example of this is something I just recently wrote about is something I just recently wrote about is something I just recently wrote about in an article that got published this in an article that got published this in an article that got published this year um about the epidemic of anger in year um about the epidemic of anger in year um about the epidemic of anger in our country. And one of the classic our country. And one of the classic our country. And one of the classic manifestations of this is something you manifestations of this is something you manifestations of this is something you probably don't realize is what is a probably don't realize is what is a probably don't realize is what is a nationwide youth sports referee nationwide youth sports referee nationwide youth sports referee shortage. This is not this is not made shortage. This is not this is not made shortage. This is not this is not made up. This is true. Many places around the up. This is true. Many places around the up. This is true. Many places around the country are having trouble finding youth country are having trouble finding youth country are having trouble finding youth sports referees because they are so sports referees because they are so sports referees because they are so incessantly bered by incessantly bered by incessantly bered by parents for every missed call, for parents for every missed call, for parents for every missed call, for everything that they think has been done everything that they think has been done everything that they think has been done wrong to their child, everything, every wrong to their child, everything, every wrong to their child, everything, every slight on the field or on the court. And slight on the field or on the court. And slight on the field or on the court. And these referees are are fed up. And we're these referees are are fed up. And we're these referees are are fed up. And we're not talking about just yelling. We're not talking about just yelling. We're not talking about just yelling. We're talking about assaults on the parking talking about assaults on the parking talking about assaults on the parking lot when the game is over. We're talking lot when the game is over. We're talking lot when the game is over. We're talking about physical altercations. We're

about physical altercations. We're about physical altercations. We're talking about threats and and all kinds talking about threats and and all kinds talking about threats and and all kinds of confrontations. And you know, we're of confrontations. And you know, we're of confrontations. And you know, we're we're hoping not many of these people we're hoping not many of these people we're hoping not many of these people are Christians. Okay, fair enough. But I are Christians. Okay, fair enough. But I are Christians. Okay, fair enough. But I imagine some Christians do that sort of imagine some Christians do that sort of imagine some Christians do that sort of thing and feel that sort of way. But it thing and feel that sort of way. But it thing and feel that sort of way. But it just captures exact point, which is that just captures exact point, which is that just captures exact point, which is that is it really our job to protect our is it really our job to protect our is it really our job to protect our child from even a bad call in a soccer child from even a bad call in a soccer child from even a bad call in a soccer game? game? game? or do we need to realize that's part of or do we need to realize that's part of or do we need to realize that's part of life and to be handing that over to God life and to be handing that over to God life and to be handing that over to God in a more fundamental way. Okay, that in a more fundamental way. Okay, that in a more fundamental way. Okay, that brings us to the last and final brings us to the last and final brings us to the last and final principle seven we've shared with you principle seven we've shared with you principle seven we've shared with you and here is the last one and as I lay and here is the last one and as I lay and here is the last one and as I lay out the last one let me just remind you out the last one let me just remind you out the last one let me just remind you what the seven are here as we draw this what the seven are here as we draw this what the seven are here as we draw this to a close. Uh the first principle is to a close. Uh the first principle is to a close. Uh the first principle is our hope must be god oriented not child our hope must be god oriented not child our hope must be god oriented not child oriented. Second parenting begins not by oriented. Second parenting begins not by oriented. Second parenting begins not by make making sure your kids follow God make making sure your kids follow God make making sure your kids follow God but making sure you follow God. Three, but making sure you follow God. Three, but making sure you follow God. Three, don't underestimate the power of the don't underestimate the power of the don't underestimate the power of the basics. Four, don't forget the power of basics. Four, don't forget the power of basics. Four, don't forget the power of warmth in building Christian community warmth in building Christian community warmth in building Christian community in your home. Number five, lead with a in your home. Number five, lead with a in your home. Number five, lead with a conversation, not a command. Number six, conversation, not a command. Number six, conversation, not a command. Number six, you can't protect your kids from all you can't protect your kids from all you can't protect your kids from all difficulty and suffering. And finally, difficulty and suffering. And finally, difficulty and suffering. And finally, number seven, which is equally number seven, which is equally number seven, which is equally challenging and important, particularly challenging and important, particularly challenging and important, particularly for those who have older kids. Leave for those who have older kids. Leave for those who have older kids. Leave room for doubts and room for doubts and room for doubts and questions. Leave room for doubts and questions. Leave room for doubts and questions. Leave room for doubts and questions. I wish we had a lot of time questions. I wish we had a lot of time questions. I wish we had a lot of time to unpack this, but I've written about to unpack this, but I've written about to unpack this, but I've written about this in my recent book, Surviving this in my recent book, Surviving this in my recent book, Surviving Religion 101, which is about how to keep Religion 101, which is about how to keep Religion 101, which is about how to keep your faith in college in the midst of your faith in college in the midst of your faith in college in the midst of doubts, intellectual doubts. But doubts, intellectual doubts. But doubts, intellectual doubts. But intellectual doubts don't start in intellectual doubts don't start in intellectual doubts don't start in college. Intellectual doubts start in college. Intellectual doubts start in college. Intellectual doubts start in the home when you're in high school, the home when you're in high school, the home when you're in high school, maybe even junior high and earlier. So, maybe even junior high and earlier. So, maybe even junior high and earlier. So, as parents, what's our advice to you?

as parents, what's our advice to you? as parents, what's our advice to you? Don't feel like your number one job is Don't feel like your number one job is Don't feel like your number one job is to sniff out every doubt or question and to sniff out every doubt or question and to sniff out every doubt or question and squash it out of the gate. Give them a squash it out of the gate. Give them a squash it out of the gate. Give them a chance to express it, talk about it so chance to express it, talk about it so chance to express it, talk about it so you can answer it. In other words, don't you can answer it. In other words, don't you can answer it. In other words, don't take the path of what's called doubt take the path of what's called doubt take the path of what's called doubt shaming where every time your kid shaming where every time your kid shaming where every time your kid wonders, do I really believe that or is wonders, do I really believe that or is wonders, do I really believe that or is that really true? Or what about this or that really true? Or what about this or that really true? Or what about this or that? That you you just squash it out of that? That you you just squash it out of that? That you you just squash it out of fear. Oh no, there my my my child's fear. Oh no, there my my my child's fear. Oh no, there my my my child's expressing some sort of dissonance to expressing some sort of dissonance to expressing some sort of dissonance to the faith, so therefore I've got to make the faith, so therefore I've got to make the faith, so therefore I've got to make sure I I nip it in the bud. No, that's sure I I nip it in the bud. No, that's sure I I nip it in the bud. No, that's not actually how doubt works. Doubt not actually how doubt works. Doubt not actually how doubt works. Doubt works and is solved when it's brought works and is solved when it's brought works and is solved when it's brought into light. And there's a conversation into light. And there's a conversation into light. And there's a conversation that can happen. And who should that that can happen. And who should that that can happen. And who should that conversation be with? Not their secular conversation be with? Not their secular conversation be with? Not their secular college professors or not their college professors or not their college professors or not their roommates in college. The conversation roommates in college. The conversation roommates in college. The conversation ought to happen first with the parents, ought to happen first with the parents, ought to happen first with the parents, but it can only happen first with the but it can only happen first with the but it can only happen first with the parents if you are open to that or parents if you are open to that or parents if you are open to that or unwilling to let them express their unwilling to let them express their unwilling to let them express their doubts and questions. doubts and questions. doubts and questions. Can I say something about that? One Can I say something about that? One Can I say something about that? One thing um I think as parents it can be thing um I think as parents it can be thing um I think as parents it can be really stressful when they come home really stressful when they come home really stressful when they come home with these questions like, "Well, how do with these questions like, "Well, how do with these questions like, "Well, how do you even know the Bible's true?" And you even know the Bible's true?" And you even know the Bible's true?" And you're like, "I have no idea. I I don't you're like, "I have no idea. I I don't you're like, "I have no idea. I I don't know why. I just do. I do. I do. It's know why. I just do. I do. I do. It's know why. I just do. I do. I do. It's true." You know, and that's that's you true." You know, and that's that's you true." You know, and that's that's you know where you're like, "Oh my know where you're like, "Oh my know where you're like, "Oh my goodness." And you're thinking, well, goodness." And you're thinking, well, goodness." And you're thinking, well, you know, when you're married to when you know, when you're married to when you know, when you're married to when you're married to a guy who that's what you're married to a guy who that's what you're married to a guy who that's what he does his research in, you're like, he does his research in, you're like, he does his research in, you're like, "Oh, okay. I can just go to him." But "Oh, okay. I can just go to him." But "Oh, okay. I can just go to him." But but but the reality is what I've watched but but the reality is what I've watched but but the reality is what I've watched you do so well is kids will come to with you do so well is kids will come to with you do so well is kids will come to with come to you with questions and you can't come to you with questions and you can't come to you with questions and you can't answer them about the Bible. And my answer them about the Bible. And my answer them about the Bible. And my children are routinely unimpressed with children are routinely unimpressed with children are routinely unimpressed with me as a scholar.

me as a scholar. me as a scholar. My son will say, "Dad, I thought you My son will say, "Dad, I thought you My son will say, "Dad, I thought you were a Bible scholar. What's your It were a Bible scholar. What's your It were a Bible scholar. What's your It doesn't matter." I'm like, "I'm sorry. doesn't matter." I'm like, "I'm sorry. doesn't matter." I'm like, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let me answer." And and I I'm sorry. Let me answer." And and I I'm sorry. Let me answer." And and I actually think one of the best things actually think one of the best things actually think one of the best things you can say um one is, you know, I'm not you can say um one is, you know, I'm not you can say um one is, you know, I'm not actually sure how to answer your actually sure how to answer your actually sure how to answer your question. That humility is it's just question. That humility is it's just question. That humility is it's just great to say, but um hey, maybe we could great to say, but um hey, maybe we could great to say, but um hey, maybe we could talk to our pastor together or try to talk to our pastor together or try to talk to our pastor together or try to find out together. Don't feel like you find out together. Don't feel like you find out together. Don't feel like you have to have all the answers to their have to have all the answers to their have to have all the answers to their doubts. Um instead, also just be doubts. Um instead, also just be doubts. Um instead, also just be curious. Tell me tell me what you're curious. Tell me tell me what you're curious. Tell me tell me what you're struggling with God's word. What don't struggling with God's word. What don't struggling with God's word. What don't you like about it? where you know you like about it? where you know you like about it? where you know because sometimes that's going to give because sometimes that's going to give because sometimes that's going to give you hints into what's really going on. you hints into what's really going on. you hints into what's really going on. Um but to engage with them and be Um but to engage with them and be Um but to engage with them and be curious and I again I think it's really curious and I again I think it's really curious and I again I think it's really tempting to to give them you know a 20 tempting to to give them you know a 20 tempting to to give them you know a 20 point mini sermon about why they should point mini sermon about why they should point mini sermon about why they should believe but this is the thing by high believe but this is the thing by high believe but this is the thing by high school they actually know what you school they actually know what you school they actually know what you think. Um what you're trying to do as a think. Um what you're trying to do as a think. Um what you're trying to do as a parent is understand what they think and parent is understand what they think and parent is understand what they think and so this is the time to patiently be so this is the time to patiently be so this is the time to patiently be curious and ask them questions. Hey, I'm curious and ask them questions. Hey, I'm curious and ask them questions. Hey, I'm trying to understand what you're trying to understand what you're trying to understand what you're struggling with about faith. Enter in struggling with about faith. Enter in struggling with about faith. Enter in with them. It's it's so scary as a with them. It's it's so scary as a with them. It's it's so scary as a parent when one of our kids may not parent when one of our kids may not parent when one of our kids may not believe. I mean, it's terrifying, but I believe. I mean, it's terrifying, but I believe. I mean, it's terrifying, but I just want to remind you it it's it's a just want to remind you it it's it's a just want to remind you it it's it's a pretty normative thing to go through pretty normative thing to go through pretty normative thing to go through questioning. And usually they come out questioning. And usually they come out questioning. And usually they come out on the other side with better faith.

on the other side with better faith. on the other side with better faith. They need to go through some of that They need to go through some of that They need to go through some of that wrestling on their own. And it's normal wrestling on their own. And it's normal wrestling on their own. And it's normal for them to start thinking, why do I for them to start thinking, why do I for them to start thinking, why do I believe this book? You I mean, that's a believe this book? You I mean, that's a believe this book? You I mean, that's a we all had to get there. Why do I why do we all had to get there. Why do I why do we all had to get there. Why do I why do I base my life on this book? So, I would I base my life on this book? So, I would I base my life on this book? So, I would just say be compassionate in that as just say be compassionate in that as just say be compassionate in that as they're having these questions and be they're having these questions and be they're having these questions and be curious about why and then help them get curious about why and then help them get curious about why and then help them get help, but don't feel like you have to help, but don't feel like you have to help, but don't feel like you have to have all the answers in in that. Well, have all the answers in in that. Well, have all the answers in in that. Well, that's a great way to close this out that's a great way to close this out that's a great way to close this out today. We want to thank you all for today. We want to thank you all for today. We want to thank you all for coming out to this session. It was coming out to this session. It was coming out to this session. It was really a fun conversation and a lot to really a fun conversation and a lot to really a fun conversation and a lot to think about, a lot of stuff to take think about, a lot of stuff to take think about, a lot of stuff to take away. We trust it's been a blessing to away. We trust it's been a blessing to away. We trust it's been a blessing to you and Melissa and I will be up front you and Melissa and I will be up front you and Melissa and I will be up front and look forward to talking to you when and look forward to talking to you when and look forward to talking to you when it's over. Thank you very much.