Spiritual Warfare in Ministry [The Everyday Pastor - Ep. 45]

The Christian heart is not a shared The Christian heart is not a shared space in the sense that when the space in the sense that when the space in the sense that when the omnipotent third person of the eternal omnipotent third person of the eternal omnipotent third person of the eternal trinity moves in and takes up residence trinity moves in and takes up residence trinity moves in and takes up residence within a believer, again, that's claimed within a believer, again, that's claimed within a believer, again, that's claimed territory. That's not a a shared working territory. That's not a a shared working territory. That's not a a shared working environment. The holy uh and and of environment. The holy uh and and of environment. The holy uh and and of course we can grieve the spirit. [music] course we can grieve the spirit. [music] course we can grieve the spirit. [music] We can suppress the spirit. We can We can suppress the spirit. We can We can suppress the spirit. We can refuse to be led by the spirit, but refuse to be led by the spirit, but refuse to be led by the spirit, but fundamentally a child of God is indwelt fundamentally a child of God is indwelt fundamentally a child of God is indwelt by the spirit, not by [music] the evil by the spirit, not by [music] the evil by the spirit, not by [music] the evil one. one. one. >> Amen. >> [music] >> [music] >> Welcome friends to this episode of The >> Welcome friends to this episode of The >> Welcome friends to this episode of The Everyday Pastor, a podcast from the Everyday Pastor, a podcast from the Everyday Pastor, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition on the nuts and bolts Gospel Coalition on the nuts and bolts Gospel Coalition on the nuts and bolts of ministry. I'm Matt Smith and I'm Lig of ministry. I'm Matt Smith and I'm Lig of ministry. I'm Matt Smith and I'm Lig Duncan and we're here to think about the Duncan and we're here to think about the Duncan and we're here to think about the topic of spiritual warfare in ministry. topic of spiritual warfare in ministry. topic of spiritual warfare in ministry. Uh Lig, as we think about this perennial Uh Lig, as we think about this perennial Uh Lig, as we think about this perennial topic, um I think it's easy to fall into topic, um I think it's easy to fall into topic, um I think it's easy to fall into kind of one or two extremes. CS Lewis kind of one or two extremes. CS Lewis kind of one or two extremes. CS Lewis talked about this, others have mentioned talked about this, others have mentioned talked about this, others have mentioned it. There there can be a kind of it. There there can be a kind of it. There there can be a kind of unhealthy fixation on the demonic powers unhealthy fixation on the demonic powers unhealthy fixation on the demonic powers and and the role they play in our world.

and and the role they play in our world. and and the role they play in our world. But there also can be a kind of But there also can be a kind of But there also can be a kind of lacadasical uh ignorance or ignoring of lacadasical uh ignorance or ignoring of lacadasical uh ignorance or ignoring of the reality of satanic attack which is a the reality of satanic attack which is a the reality of satanic attack which is a real thing in ministry. So let's just real thing in ministry. So let's just real thing in ministry. So let's just start here. Uh how did you teach on this start here. Uh how did you teach on this start here. Uh how did you teach on this subject as you ministered for so many subject as you ministered for so many subject as you ministered for so many years at first press? Um I I I don't years at first press? Um I I I don't years at first press? Um I I I don't consider myself an expert on this consider myself an expert on this consider myself an expert on this subject by any stretch and I I subject by any stretch and I I subject by any stretch and I I definitely experientially definitely experientially definitely experientially felt not a match for it. Now I I had felt not a match for it. Now I I had felt not a match for it. Now I I had colleagues in ministry that I think had colleagues in ministry that I think had colleagues in ministry that I think had done a better job of escaping the sort done a better job of escaping the sort done a better job of escaping the sort of rationalistic framework that I think of rationalistic framework that I think of rationalistic framework that I think has dominated even evangelicals in the has dominated even evangelicals in the has dominated even evangelicals in the 20th century. I think I think one of the 20th century. I think I think one of the 20th century. I think I think one of the reasons, Matt, for the phenomenon you reasons, Matt, for the phenomenon you reasons, Matt, for the phenomenon you just described of some people just described of some people just described of some people overreacting and other people overreacting and other people overreacting and other people underreacting is because we've been underreacting is because we've been underreacting is because we've been cooked and baked in the 20th century at cooked and baked in the 20th century at cooked and baked in the 20th century at least in a pretty heavy dose of least in a pretty heavy dose of least in a pretty heavy dose of rationalism. And of course, that's what rationalism. And of course, that's what rationalism. And of course, that's what CS Lewis is pushing back against when he CS Lewis is pushing back against when he CS Lewis is pushing back against when he talks about this. And so it makes some talks about this. And so it makes some talks about this. And so it makes some people in that in that vacuum of people in that in that vacuum of people in that in that vacuum of rationalism jump onto weird quirky rationalism jump onto weird quirky rationalism jump onto weird quirky fringe fads fringe fads fringe fads >> and then it makes others of us >> and then it makes others of us >> and then it makes others of us >> perhaps unaware of of how much worldly >> perhaps unaware of of how much worldly >> perhaps unaware of of how much worldly thinking has taken over. And I think thinking has taken over. And I think thinking has taken over. And I think that impacted me. And so I've benefited that impacted me. And so I've benefited that impacted me. And so I've benefited by colleagues that were older and more by colleagues that were older and more by colleagues that were older and more mature and I think had a more healthy

mature and I think had a more healthy mature and I think had a more healthy biblical and supernatural worldview. But biblical and supernatural worldview. But biblical and supernatural worldview. But the people that helped me the most on the people that helped me the most on the people that helped me the most on this are the Puritans. So I've I've got this are the Puritans. So I've I've got this are the Puritans. So I've I've got open to my page here. I've mentioned open to my page here. I've mentioned open to my page here. I've mentioned this before. We've talked about this in this before. We've talked about this in this before. We've talked about this in the past. Thomas Brook's Precious the past. Thomas Brook's Precious the past. Thomas Brook's Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices has Remedies Against Satan's Devices has Remedies Against Satan's Devices has helped me more in the area of spiritual helped me more in the area of spiritual helped me more in the area of spiritual warfare than any other book. Now, some warfare than any other book. Now, some warfare than any other book. Now, some some people will put uh they'll point to some people will put uh they'll point to some people will put uh they'll point to William Gernal's The Christian William Gernal's The Christian William Gernal's The Christian incomplete armor. great book, but it's incomplete armor. great book, but it's incomplete armor. great book, but it's been Brooks that has helped me most in been Brooks that has helped me most in been Brooks that has helped me most in this area along with just knowing some this area along with just knowing some this area along with just knowing some godly colleagues who have had a balanced godly colleagues who have had a balanced godly colleagues who have had a balanced biblical understanding of this and just biblical understanding of this and just biblical understanding of this and just watching them and listening to them and watching them and listening to them and watching them and listening to them and and letting them make me aware of areas and letting them make me aware of areas and letting them make me aware of areas that I might have not taken into that I might have not taken into that I might have not taken into consideration as a part of the battles consideration as a part of the battles consideration as a part of the battles that we face in Christian ministry with that we face in Christian ministry with that we face in Christian ministry with spiritual forces. is impacting our spiritual forces. is impacting our spiritual forces. is impacting our hearts. So, it's the Puritans that have hearts. So, it's the Puritans that have hearts. So, it's the Puritans that have helped me the most. And I think they, helped me the most. And I think they, helped me the most. And I think they, you know, they're far enough away from you know, they're far enough away from you know, they're far enough away from us. They're not perfect, Matt, but they us. They're not perfect, Matt, but they us. They're not perfect, Matt, but they they sure are far enough away from us they sure are far enough away from us they sure are far enough away from us that they they don't fall for the same that they they don't fall for the same that they they don't fall for the same mistakes that people in our time fall mistakes that people in our time fall mistakes that people in our time fall for. There may be some correctives that for. There may be some correctives that for. There may be some correctives that we would want to give there, but I've we would want to give there, but I've we would want to give there, but I've found Thomas Brooks super helpful in found Thomas Brooks super helpful in found Thomas Brooks super helpful in this area. And you would say that that's this area. And you would say that that's this area. And you would say that that's not just one of the most helpful books not just one of the most helpful books not just one of the most helpful books on this subject you've read, but I think on this subject you've read, but I think on this subject you've read, but I think I've heard you say Precious Remedies I've heard you say Precious Remedies I've heard you say Precious Remedies Against Saint Devices is one of the most

Against Saint Devices is one of the most Against Saint Devices is one of the most influential books you've ever read, influential books you've ever read, influential books you've ever read, period. period. period. >> It definitely helped me know how to >> It definitely helped me know how to >> It definitely helped me know how to apply application. I think for as for me apply application. I think for as for me apply application. I think for as for me that that's still something I have to that that's still something I have to that that's still something I have to work at. And boy, does he help you apply work at. And boy, does he help you apply work at. And boy, does he help you apply because he makes you aware of all the because he makes you aware of all the because he makes you aware of all the different kinds of things that your different kinds of things that your different kinds of things that your congregation is facing. And I think I congregation is facing. And I think I congregation is facing. And I think I think in our time the number one think in our time the number one think in our time the number one temptation that I've seen in application temptation that I've seen in application temptation that I've seen in application is for is for is for >> you're talking about sermon application >> you're talking about sermon application >> you're talking about sermon application >> sermon application. And I'm talking >> sermon application. And I'm talking >> sermon application. And I'm talking about evangelical bibleelving big about evangelical bibleelving big about evangelical bibleelving big godbelving ministers. We have a tendency godbelving ministers. We have a tendency godbelving ministers. We have a tendency to apply to one kind of person in our to apply to one kind of person in our to apply to one kind of person in our congregation not realizing that there congregation not realizing that there congregation not realizing that there are multiple kinds of persons in our are multiple kinds of persons in our are multiple kinds of persons in our congregation and there are multiple congregation and there are multiple congregation and there are multiple kinds of temptations and conditions that kinds of temptations and conditions that kinds of temptations and conditions that they are facing. Yeah. And one reason they are facing. Yeah. And one reason they are facing. Yeah. And one reason Purit sermons were so long is that they Purit sermons were so long is that they Purit sermons were so long is that they were they were busily trying to apply were they were busily trying to apply were they were busily trying to apply the word to multiple people multiple the word to multiple people multiple the word to multiple people multiple conditions. Now, I wouldn't say plop conditions. Now, I wouldn't say plop conditions. Now, I wouldn't say plop that kind of application into our that kind of application into our that kind of application into our current environment and do that every current environment and do that every current environment and do that every Sunday. But boy, did it help me to Sunday. But boy, did it help me to Sunday. But boy, did it help me to recognize that if I'm only applying to recognize that if I'm only applying to recognize that if I'm only applying to one thing, if I'm only applying to one one thing, if I'm only applying to one one thing, if I'm only applying to one kind of a person, I'm not serving my kind of a person, I'm not serving my kind of a person, I'm not serving my whole congregation well, and I may be whole congregation well, and I may be whole congregation well, and I may be helping them miss the impact of that helping them miss the impact of that helping them miss the impact of that scripture on them that it is meant to scripture on them that it is meant to scripture on them that it is meant to have.

have. have. >> Yeah. Well, I'm glad you mentioned the >> Yeah. Well, I'm glad you mentioned the >> Yeah. Well, I'm glad you mentioned the effect of rationalism because we can't effect of rationalism because we can't effect of rationalism because we can't have this conversation in a vacuum. Uh have this conversation in a vacuum. Uh have this conversation in a vacuum. Uh the secular worldview has stripped away the secular worldview has stripped away the secular worldview has stripped away the supernatural which has left some the supernatural which has left some the supernatural which has left some people hungry for spiritual reality. people hungry for spiritual reality. people hungry for spiritual reality. Others just kind of dismissing anything Others just kind of dismissing anything Others just kind of dismissing anything beyond the material world. And so um I I beyond the material world. And so um I I beyond the material world. And so um I I can I just ask how did you see that? I can I just ask how did you see that? I can I just ask how did you see that? I mean the very fact that you've chosen mean the very fact that you've chosen mean the very fact that you've chosen this as a topic for us to to speak this as a topic for us to to speak this as a topic for us to to speak about. I I I wonder in your own about. I I I wonder in your own about. I I I wonder in your own experience, what tipped you off to this experience, what tipped you off to this experience, what tipped you off to this and what's helped you? and what's helped you? and what's helped you? >> Well, Satan has the gift of >> Well, Satan has the gift of >> Well, Satan has the gift of discouragement, at least in my life. And discouragement, at least in my life. And discouragement, at least in my life. And you know, though I don't want to be the you know, though I don't want to be the you know, though I don't want to be the kind of believer that rushes to blame kind of believer that rushes to blame kind of believer that rushes to blame Satan for everything, of course, at Satan for everything, of course, at Satan for everything, of course, at times it's it's just my indwelling sin. times it's it's just my indwelling sin. times it's it's just my indwelling sin. But, uh, in ministry, I do find that But, uh, in ministry, I do find that But, uh, in ministry, I do find that it's so easy to fixate on it's so easy to fixate on it's so easy to fixate on the things that are not going well. And the things that are not going well. And the things that are not going well. And I think often that's the evil one trying I think often that's the evil one trying I think often that's the evil one trying to convince me that yeah, the the word to convince me that yeah, the the word to convince me that yeah, the the word it's actually not enough. You know, it's it's actually not enough. You know, it's it's actually not enough. You know, it's interesting like to think about the fact interesting like to think about the fact interesting like to think about the fact that Jesus over and over said, "It is that Jesus over and over said, "It is that Jesus over and over said, "It is written. It is written. It is written."

written. It is written. It is written." written. It is written. It is written." But in the garden, Satan essentially But in the garden, Satan essentially But in the garden, Satan essentially says, "Is it written?" And I feel like says, "Is it written?" And I feel like says, "Is it written?" And I feel like that's so much of what uh ministry comes that's so much of what uh ministry comes that's so much of what uh ministry comes down to every day. Which voice are you down to every day. Which voice are you down to every day. Which voice are you going to believe? And Satan speaks with going to believe? And Satan speaks with going to believe? And Satan speaks with a forked tongue and he he wants us he a forked tongue and he he wants us he a forked tongue and he he wants us he uses the the the same ancient strategy uses the the the same ancient strategy uses the the the same ancient strategy of did God really say of did God really say of did God really say >> right >> right >> right >> Matt did God really say that he would be >> Matt did God really say that he would be >> Matt did God really say that he would be enough for you in ministry? Did he enough for you in ministry? Did he enough for you in ministry? Did he really say that faithfulness is success? really say that faithfulness is success? really say that faithfulness is success? Did he really say that he's going to be Did he really say that he's going to be Did he really say that he's going to be with you and in you and for you on your with you and in you and for you on your with you and in you and for you on your best days? Did he really say your best days? Did he really say your best days? Did he really say your identity is in who you are as his child, identity is in who you are as his child, identity is in who you are as his child, not how well minister, you know, and so not how well minister, you know, and so not how well minister, you know, and so on and so forth. So for me, this is on and so forth. So for me, this is on and so forth. So for me, this is coming out of personal experience. coming out of personal experience. coming out of personal experience. >> Okay. Okay. And is there have have there >> Okay. Okay. And is there have have there >> Okay. Okay. And is there have have there been people that have been helpful to been people that have been helpful to been people that have been helpful to you in sort of correcting whatever you you in sort of correcting whatever you you in sort of correcting whatever you you feel is a lack in your own life in you feel is a lack in your own life in you feel is a lack in your own life in that area? that area? that area? >> Charles Spurgeon has some good stuff in >> Charles Spurgeon has some good stuff in >> Charles Spurgeon has some good stuff in lectures to my students on this.

lectures to my students on this. lectures to my students on this. >> Absolutely true. And he I think just >> Absolutely true. And he I think just >> Absolutely true. And he I think just takes a very sane approach to it in the takes a very sane approach to it in the takes a very sane approach to it in the sense that while he acknowledges at sense that while he acknowledges at sense that while he acknowledges at times there is real spiritual warfare times there is real spiritual warfare times there is real spiritual warfare going on at other times he acknowledges going on at other times he acknowledges going on at other times he acknowledges that we need a fresh walk outdoors. Uh that we need a fresh walk outdoors. Uh that we need a fresh walk outdoors. Uh whereas you know Don Carson has said whereas you know Don Carson has said whereas you know Don Carson has said sometimes the godliest thing you can do sometimes the godliest thing you can do sometimes the godliest thing you can do is get a good night's sleep not stay up is get a good night's sleep not stay up is get a good night's sleep not stay up and pray all night but actually get a and pray all night but actually get a and pray all night but actually get a good night's sleep. And so there yeah good night's sleep. And so there yeah good night's sleep. And so there yeah there's a multiplicity of factors and as there's a multiplicity of factors and as there's a multiplicity of factors and as you mentioned people not only in our you mentioned people not only in our you mentioned people not only in our congregation that have different congregation that have different congregation that have different conditions you know sinners sufferers conditions you know sinners sufferers conditions you know sinners sufferers and and all the rest but we ourselves uh and and all the rest but we ourselves uh and and all the rest but we ourselves uh are often a complex mix of um of are often a complex mix of um of are often a complex mix of um of realities and and yeah some of it realities and and yeah some of it realities and and yeah some of it spiritual some of it's physical but I spiritual some of it's physical but I spiritual some of it's physical but I want to think you know as I'm as I'm want to think you know as I'm as I'm want to think you know as I'm as I'm preaching to my congregation as I'm preaching to my congregation as I'm preaching to my congregation as I'm counseling throughout the week I'm counseling throughout the week I'm counseling throughout the week I'm wanting to help them think biblically wanting to help them think biblically wanting to help them think biblically about this reality because as you said, about this reality because as you said, about this reality because as you said, I do think we we either overreact to it I do think we we either overreact to it I do think we we either overreact to it or we underreact to it. So, let's think or we underreact to it. So, let's think or we underreact to it. So, let's think a little bit about a little bit about a little bit about >> what the Bible teaches um in in terms of >> what the Bible teaches um in in terms of >> what the Bible teaches um in in terms of spiritual warfare? I mean, can a spiritual warfare? I mean, can a spiritual warfare? I mean, can a Christian be possessed by a demon? uh c Christian be possessed by a demon? uh c Christian be possessed by a demon? uh c can a Christian be uh what is the nature can a Christian be uh what is the nature can a Christian be uh what is the nature of spiritual attack in the life of a of spiritual attack in the life of a of spiritual attack in the life of a Christian?

Christian? Christian? >> Well, let me back up from that question >> Well, let me back up from that question >> Well, let me back up from that question one step and say that you will find um a one step and say that you will find um a one step and say that you will find um a number of places in the New Testament number of places in the New Testament number of places in the New Testament where Jesus or the apostles are where Jesus or the apostles are where Jesus or the apostles are exhorting Christians to be aware of the exhorting Christians to be aware of the exhorting Christians to be aware of the spiritual battle that we are in. Uh, one spiritual battle that we are in. Uh, one spiritual battle that we are in. Uh, one place that comes to mind is in the armor place that comes to mind is in the armor place that comes to mind is in the armor of God passage where Paul says, "Our of God passage where Paul says, "Our of God passage where Paul says, "Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, struggle is not against flesh and blood, struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the but against the rulers, against the but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this powers, against the world forces of this powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces darkness, against the spiritual forces darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." of wickedness in the heavenly places." of wickedness in the heavenly places." That's Ephesians That's Ephesians That's Ephesians 6 verse 12. And right before that, he 6 verse 12. And right before that, he 6 verse 12. And right before that, he says, says, says, "Put on the full armor of God that you "Put on the full armor of God that you "Put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand firm against the may be able to stand firm against the may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil." And that's schemes of the devil." And that's schemes of the devil." And that's [clears throat] the that's the verse [clears throat] the that's the verse [clears throat] the that's the verse that gets Thomas Brooks thinking about that gets Thomas Brooks thinking about that gets Thomas Brooks thinking about the schemes or the devices of Satan in the schemes or the devices of Satan in the schemes or the devices of Satan in his book, Precious Remedies Against his book, Precious Remedies Against his book, Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices. So, as well as probably Satan's Devices. So, as well as probably Satan's Devices. So, as well as probably 2 Corinthians 2:11, for we are not 2 Corinthians 2:11, for we are not 2 Corinthians 2:11, for we are not unaware of Satan's schemes.

unaware of Satan's schemes. unaware of Satan's schemes. >> Exactly. So, that I I think start there. >> Exactly. So, that I I think start there. >> Exactly. So, that I I think start there. It it ought to be a standing part of the It it ought to be a standing part of the It it ought to be a standing part of the Christian life to be aware of those Christian life to be aware of those Christian life to be aware of those spiritual realities. And I love again, I spiritual realities. And I love again, I spiritual realities. And I love again, I love the balance that Brooks gives in love the balance that Brooks gives in love the balance that Brooks gives in the introduction to precious remedies the introduction to precious remedies the introduction to precious remedies against Satan's devices. says there are against Satan's devices. says there are against Satan's devices. says there are four things that you need to be that four things that you need to be that four things that you need to be that that that you need to concentrate on if that that you need to concentrate on if that that you need to concentrate on if you're going to be happy here and you're going to be happy here and you're going to be happy here and hereafter. Number one, Christ. hereafter. Number one, Christ. hereafter. Number one, Christ. So your eyes are always on Christ. So your eyes are always on Christ. So your eyes are always on Christ. That's the most important thing. If your That's the most important thing. If your That's the most important thing. If your eyes are on demons more than they're on eyes are on demons more than they're on eyes are on demons more than they're on Christ, they're in the wrong place. So Christ, they're in the wrong place. So Christ, they're in the wrong place. So Christ, the scriptures is the next thing Christ, the scriptures is the next thing Christ, the scriptures is the next thing Brooke says. Keep keep your nose in your Brooke says. Keep keep your nose in your Brooke says. Keep keep your nose in your Bible. Keep burying your soul. uh into Bible. Keep burying your soul. uh into Bible. Keep burying your soul. uh into the word of God and and plumbing the the word of God and and plumbing the the word of God and and plumbing the depths of the scriptures. Your own depths of the scriptures. Your own depths of the scriptures. Your own selves is the third thing he said. You selves is the third thing he said. You selves is the third thing he said. You need to know yourself. You need to know need to know yourself. You need to know need to know yourself. You need to know you need to know how your desires work you need to know how your desires work you need to know how your desires work because Satan is going to go for the because Satan is going to go for the because Satan is going to go for the weak spots in your desires. And then weak spots in your desires. And then weak spots in your desires. And then next thing he says, the fourth thing and next thing he says, the fourth thing and next thing he says, the fourth thing and Satan's devices. You need you need to Satan's devices. You need you need to Satan's devices. You need you need to know how Satan operates. And the know how Satan operates. And the know how Satan operates. And the scriptures tell us how Satan operates.

scriptures tell us how Satan operates. scriptures tell us how Satan operates. You've already started this conversation You've already started this conversation You've already started this conversation by pointing us to the original by pointing us to the original by pointing us to the original temptation in which Satan sought to temptation in which Satan sought to temptation in which Satan sought to undermine Adam and Eve's confidence in undermine Adam and Eve's confidence in undermine Adam and Eve's confidence in the word of God, in the goodness of God, the word of God, in the goodness of God, the word of God, in the goodness of God, in the truthfulness of his word, in his in the truthfulness of his word, in his in the truthfulness of his word, in his concern for their well-being. What was concern for their well-being. What was concern for their well-being. What was he doing? He was leveraging he doing? He was leveraging he doing? He was leveraging uh and building a doubt in their souls uh and building a doubt in their souls uh and building a doubt in their souls um and and and leveraging it against um and and and leveraging it against um and and and leveraging it against God, against their own good, for their God, against their own good, for their God, against their own good, for their self-destruction. So, you learn self-destruction. So, you learn self-destruction. So, you learn something out of that. Satan Satan knows something out of that. Satan Satan knows something out of that. Satan Satan knows how to twist true things so that they how to twist true things so that they how to twist true things so that they hurt the us. He knows how to question hurt the us. He knows how to question hurt the us. He knows how to question true things so that our doubt hurts us. true things so that our doubt hurts us. true things so that our doubt hurts us. and the the the whole of the Bible will and the the the whole of the Bible will and the the the whole of the Bible will give us and that and that's really what give us and that and that's really what give us and that and that's really what what Brooks is doing in his book. He's what Brooks is doing in his book. He's what Brooks is doing in his book. He's sort of piling up examples in the Bible sort of piling up examples in the Bible sort of piling up examples in the Bible of how Satan uses our own desires of how Satan uses our own desires of how Satan uses our own desires against us. And so I think we start against us. And so I think we start against us. And so I think we start there, Matt, to to recognize that there there, Matt, to to recognize that there there, Matt, to to recognize that there is a personal being is a personal being is a personal being who wants to destroy us who wants to destroy us who wants to destroy us >> and and he's he he's doing that. And we >> and and he's he he's doing that. And we >> and and he's he he's doing that. And we and we see the effects of that all and we see the effects of that all and we see the effects of that all around us. And we we don't fixate on around us. And we we don't fixate on around us. And we we don't fixate on that. We we fix our eyes on Christ. We that. We we fix our eyes on Christ. We that. We we fix our eyes on Christ. We base our life on the scripture. We know base our life on the scripture. We know base our life on the scripture. We know ourselves. But we do need to know there ourselves. But we do need to know there ourselves. But we do need to know there is a being that wants to destroy us. And

is a being that wants to destroy us. And is a being that wants to destroy us. And and he's more powerful than you. It and he's more powerful than you. It and he's more powerful than you. It there's a sense in which it's hey, God there's a sense in which it's hey, God there's a sense in which it's hey, God is mightier than Satan, so be assured, is mightier than Satan, so be assured, is mightier than Satan, so be assured, but Satan is mightier than you, so do be but Satan is mightier than you, so do be but Satan is mightier than you, so do be careful. That's absolutely true. And so careful. That's absolutely true. And so careful. That's absolutely true. And so he's he's more than we are, but he's he's he's more than we are, but he's he's he's more than we are, but he's less than Christ is. And so we've got to less than Christ is. And so we've got to less than Christ is. And so we've got to retain that balance. Now that you come retain that balance. Now that you come retain that balance. Now that you come back to your question about possession, back to your question about possession, back to your question about possession, what I want to say is if we are united what I want to say is if we are united what I want to say is if we are united with Christ and indwelt by the Holy with Christ and indwelt by the Holy with Christ and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, there is no room for Satan to Spirit, there is no room for Satan to Spirit, there is no room for Satan to occupy uh our hearts and and control our occupy uh our hearts and and control our occupy uh our hearts and and control our desires territory. Absolutely. The Lord desires territory. Absolutely. The Lord desires territory. Absolutely. The Lord Jesus Christ has has been sent on a Jesus Christ has has been sent on a Jesus Christ has has been sent on a mission by his father and in his role as mission by his father and in his role as mission by his father and in his role as our mediator and our savior, our mediator and our savior, our mediator and our savior, he loves to take those whom the father he loves to take those whom the father he loves to take those whom the father has given to him and he says no one will has given to him and he says no one will has given to him and he says no one will snatch them out of our hand. So I think snatch them out of our hand. So I think snatch them out of our hand. So I think it's very important especially for it's very important especially for it's very important especially for Christians who feel spiritually Christians who feel spiritually Christians who feel spiritually oppressed oppressed oppressed to know that no one is going to take you to know that no one is going to take you to know that no one is going to take you out of Jesus' hand. Now, does that mean out of Jesus' hand. Now, does that mean out of Jesus' hand. Now, does that mean that you will not sometimes face that you will not sometimes face that you will not sometimes face despair?

despair? despair? >> Well, let me just let me just interject >> Well, let me just let me just interject >> Well, let me just let me just interject and not and not not just Christ. Um I and not and not not just Christ. Um I and not and not not just Christ. Um I office out I'm a church planner. So, I office out I'm a church planner. So, I office out I'm a church planner. So, I office not out of a church building, but office not out of a church building, but office not out of a church building, but out of a co-working space, right? A out of a co-working space, right? A out of a co-working space, right? A shared workspace. The Christian heart is shared workspace. The Christian heart is shared workspace. The Christian heart is not a shared space in the sense that not a shared space in the sense that not a shared space in the sense that when the omnipotent third person of the when the omnipotent third person of the when the omnipotent third person of the eternal trinity moves in and takes up eternal trinity moves in and takes up eternal trinity moves in and takes up residence within a believer, again, residence within a believer, again, residence within a believer, again, that's claimed territory. That's not a a that's claimed territory. That's not a a that's claimed territory. That's not a a shared working environment. The holy uh shared working environment. The holy uh shared working environment. The holy uh and and of course we can grieve the and and of course we can grieve the and and of course we can grieve the spirit, we can suppress the spirit, we spirit, we can suppress the spirit, we spirit, we can suppress the spirit, we can refuse to be led by the spirit, but can refuse to be led by the spirit, but can refuse to be led by the spirit, but fundamentally a child of God is indwelt fundamentally a child of God is indwelt fundamentally a child of God is indwelt by the spirit, not by the evil one. by the spirit, not by the evil one. by the spirit, not by the evil one. >> Amen. And I think the the the other >> Amen. And I think the the the other >> Amen. And I think the the the other thing that we need to remember along thing that we need to remember along thing that we need to remember along with that especially if we are feeling with that especially if we are feeling with that especially if we are feeling satanic oppression, satanic opposition, satanic oppression, satanic opposition, satanic oppression, satanic opposition, satanic discouragement, satanic satanic discouragement, satanic satanic discouragement, satanic temptation, these are all real temptation, these are all real temptation, these are all real categories, not satanic possession in a categories, not satanic possession in a categories, not satanic possession in a believer, but all those other words you believer, but all those other words you believer, but all those other words you used. And you you see that so clearly in used. And you you see that so clearly in used. And you you see that so clearly in Job. As far as we know, Job never knows Job. As far as we know, Job never knows Job. As far as we know, Job never knows >> what we know in Job 1 and2. But there is >> what we know in Job 1 and2. But there is >> what we know in Job 1 and2. But there is something going on in the heavenly something going on in the heavenly something going on in the heavenly places that is directly impinging upon places that is directly impinging upon places that is directly impinging upon Job's life. And so we shouldn't be dis Job's life. And so we shouldn't be dis Job's life. And so we shouldn't be dis surprised that he's deeply struggling surprised that he's deeply struggling surprised that he's deeply struggling with despair and discouragement because with despair and discouragement because with despair and discouragement because the evil one wants him to the evil one wants him to the evil one wants him to >> or or Peter. Jesus says Satan demanded >> or or Peter. Jesus says Satan demanded >> or or Peter. Jesus says Satan demanded that he sit like wheat. And so that

that he sit like wheat. And so that that he sit like wheat. And so that should not surprise us that we feel should not surprise us that we feel should not surprise us that we feel those things that are so I think I think those things that are so I think I think those things that are so I think I think that's one reason why you get believers that's one reason why you get believers that's one reason why you get believers using language like possession because using language like possession because using language like possession because it feels so real, so powerful, so it feels so real, so powerful, so it feels so real, so powerful, so pervasive pervasive pervasive that you can be and and believe me, the that you can be and and believe me, the that you can be and and believe me, the evil one wants you to feel like you're evil one wants you to feel like you're evil one wants you to feel like you're possessed. He he wants you to feel like possessed. He he wants you to feel like possessed. He he wants you to feel like you're his. Yeah. He wants you to feel you're his. Yeah. He wants you to feel you're his. Yeah. He wants you to feel like you've got no chance, no choice. like you've got no chance, no choice. like you've got no chance, no choice. and um and and so I think that leads and um and and so I think that leads and um and and so I think that leads some believers to make a bad theological some believers to make a bad theological some believers to make a bad theological deduction. But the and and so alongside deduction. But the and and so alongside deduction. But the and and so alongside of the glorious truths that you just of the glorious truths that you just of the glorious truths that you just articulated, I think we need to articulated, I think we need to articulated, I think we need to recognize, and that's what Paul's recognize, and that's what Paul's recognize, and that's what Paul's talking about here in Ephesians 6, that talking about here in Ephesians 6, that talking about here in Ephesians 6, that the occupation of us by the spirit does the occupation of us by the spirit does the occupation of us by the spirit does not mean a sessation of conflict. It not mean a sessation of conflict. It not mean a sessation of conflict. It means the inauguration of spiritual means the inauguration of spiritual means the inauguration of spiritual conflict for the rest of our lives. And conflict for the rest of our lives. And conflict for the rest of our lives. And and and that that is due to two things.

and and that that is due to two things. and and that that is due to two things. Number one, outside of us, the evil one Number one, outside of us, the evil one Number one, outside of us, the evil one is raging. is raging. is raging. Inside of us, however, there is still a Inside of us, however, there is still a Inside of us, however, there is still a remnant of sin. And it's that which the remnant of sin. And it's that which the remnant of sin. And it's that which the evil one is trying to get a hold of. Um, evil one is trying to get a hold of. Um, evil one is trying to get a hold of. Um, and that means that our possession by and that means that our possession by and that means that our possession by the Holy Spirit, our occupation by the the Holy Spirit, our occupation by the the Holy Spirit, our occupation by the Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Holy Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Holy Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit launches a conflict with sin and Spirit launches a conflict with sin and Spirit launches a conflict with sin and with temptation that we're going to have with temptation that we're going to have with temptation that we're going to have for the rest of our lives. And uh so we for the rest of our lives. And uh so we for the rest of our lives. And uh so we shouldn't be discouraged shouldn't be discouraged shouldn't be discouraged as believers when we see that conflict as believers when we see that conflict as believers when we see that conflict raging. That is not a sign of satanic raging. That is not a sign of satanic raging. That is not a sign of satanic dominion. It's a sign of new life. If if dominion. It's a sign of new life. If if dominion. It's a sign of new life. If if we were dead, still dead in our we were dead, still dead in our we were dead, still dead in our trespasses and sins, we would not be trespasses and sins, we would not be trespasses and sins, we would not be raging uh in a war against our raging uh in a war against our raging uh in a war against our trespasses and sins. That's that is the trespasses and sins. That's that is the trespasses and sins. That's that is the the effect of the living Holy Spirit in the effect of the living Holy Spirit in the effect of the living Holy Spirit in us in the process of reclaiming us in the process of reclaiming us in the process of reclaiming everything that Satan has spoiled in everything that Satan has spoiled in everything that Satan has spoiled in this world, including every last corner this world, including every last corner this world, including every last corner of our hearts. And that is a project of our hearts. And that is a project of our hearts. And that is a project that goes on until we take our last that goes on until we take our last that goes on until we take our last breath. And so breath. And so breath. And so really mature believers can experience really mature believers can experience really mature believers can experience this in overpowering ways. I was just this in overpowering ways. I was just this in overpowering ways. I was just reading uh I was I was trying to get reading uh I was I was trying to get reading uh I was I was trying to get ready for a sermon for a friend of mine ready for a sermon for a friend of mine ready for a sermon for a friend of mine that I couldn't preach the other day on that I couldn't preach the other day on that I couldn't preach the other day on Psalm 88 and I ran across this amazing Psalm 88 and I ran across this amazing Psalm 88 and I ran across this amazing quote from Spurgeon in the treasury of quote from Spurgeon in the treasury of quote from Spurgeon in the treasury of David where he just talks about the

David where he just talks about the David where he just talks about the spiritual battle of discouragement that spiritual battle of discouragement that spiritual battle of discouragement that that wages war in many wonderful that wages war in many wonderful that wages war in many wonderful Christian souls. And I couldn't help but Christian souls. And I couldn't help but Christian souls. And I couldn't help but think, oh man, Spurgeon, you are think, oh man, Spurgeon, you are think, oh man, Spurgeon, you are speaking to us out of your own speaking to us out of your own speaking to us out of your own experience here. This is why you're able experience here. This is why you're able experience here. This is why you're able to speak so realistic about this is you to speak so realistic about this is you to speak so realistic about this is you felt this yourself. And in fact, a felt this yourself. And in fact, a felt this yourself. And in fact, a friend of mine who's a counselor wrote friend of mine who's a counselor wrote friend of mine who's a counselor wrote to me and said, "I have never read a to me and said, "I have never read a to me and said, "I have never read a better, more comprehensive description better, more comprehensive description better, more comprehensive description of spiritual depression and of spiritual depression and of spiritual depression and discouragement than this one." And it discouragement than this one." And it discouragement than this one." And it it's it's a pastor writing out of his it's it's a pastor writing out of his it's it's a pastor writing out of his own experience sermon on out of treasury own experience sermon on out of treasury own experience sermon on out of treasury of David. So it's his notes, you know, of David. So it's his notes, you know, of David. So it's his notes, you know, as he builds his sermon on Psalm 88. I'd as he builds his sermon on Psalm 88. I'd as he builds his sermon on Psalm 88. I'd never read it before until this uh never read it before until this uh never read it before until this uh weekend. And it is so good, Matt, but weekend. And it is so good, Matt, but weekend. And it is so good, Matt, but it's speaking to exactly the reality it's speaking to exactly the reality it's speaking to exactly the reality that you were talking about at the that you were talking about at the that you were talking about at the beginning of our conversation. Hm. At beginning of our conversation. Hm. At beginning of our conversation. Hm. At the the risk of wanting to improve on the the risk of wanting to improve on the the risk of wanting to improve on Thomas Brooks, um I I I do want to Thomas Brooks, um I I I do want to Thomas Brooks, um I I I do want to hasten to add, so you you mentioned the hasten to add, so you you mentioned the hasten to add, so you you mentioned the the four areas, Christ, scripture, our the four areas, Christ, scripture, our the four areas, Christ, scripture, our own selves, and Satan's schemes. I would own selves, and Satan's schemes. I would own selves, and Satan's schemes. I would also add the church.

also add the church. also add the church. >> And here's why. >> And here's why. >> And here's why. >> Good. Seeing when you struggle to feel >> Good. Seeing when you struggle to feel >> Good. Seeing when you struggle to feel the presence of God in yourself and to the presence of God in yourself and to the presence of God in yourself and to see his work in you, one of the best see his work in you, one of the best see his work in you, one of the best things you can do is get out of yourself things you can do is get out of yourself things you can do is get out of yourself and to see his work in others. To see and to see his work in others. To see and to see his work in others. To see ways that the the the power of the Holy ways that the the the power of the Holy ways that the the the power of the Holy Spirit is overcoming satanic oppression, Spirit is overcoming satanic oppression, Spirit is overcoming satanic oppression, satanic attack in the lives of God's satanic attack in the lives of God's satanic attack in the lives of God's people. people. people. >> Right? I have a buddy who took the song >> Right? I have a buddy who took the song >> Right? I have a buddy who took the song blessed assurance and did a version blessed assurance and did a version blessed assurance and did a version where it it goes from bless blessed where it it goes from bless blessed where it it goes from bless blessed assurance Jesus is mine to the next assurance Jesus is mine to the next assurance Jesus is mine to the next verse blessed assurance Jesus is yours verse blessed assurance Jesus is yours verse blessed assurance Jesus is yours blessed assurance Jesus is ours and and blessed assurance Jesus is ours and and blessed assurance Jesus is ours and and he he wrote it as kind of a a sermon he he wrote it as kind of a a sermon he he wrote it as kind of a a sermon that would be or a song that would be um that would be or a song that would be um that would be or a song that would be um particularly fitting around the table particularly fitting around the table particularly fitting around the table taking the Lord's supper together um but taking the Lord's supper together um but taking the Lord's supper together um but I think that's just one more note that I think that's just one more note that I think that's just one more note that we want to sound you can't fight the we want to sound you can't fight the we want to sound you can't fight the attacks of the evil one with your Bible attacks of the evil one with your Bible attacks of the evil one with your Bible in the woods unless that's where God in in the woods unless that's where God in in the woods unless that's where God in his providence has you. Um but but you his providence has you. Um but but you his providence has you. Um but but you ultimately are going to fight the ultimately are going to fight the ultimately are going to fight the attacks of the evil one in the presence attacks of the evil one in the presence attacks of the evil one in the presence of Christ with his people as you see his of Christ with his people as you see his of Christ with his people as you see his work in them. Uh like as we turn to work in them. Uh like as we turn to work in them. Uh like as we turn to thinking more specifically about how the thinking more specifically about how the thinking more specifically about how the evil one attacks ministers. Talk a evil one attacks ministers. Talk a evil one attacks ministers. Talk a little bit about your experience as a little bit about your experience as a little bit about your experience as a pastor. Were there were there times pastor. Were there were there times pastor. Were there were there times seasons where you experienced uh what seasons where you experienced uh what seasons where you experienced uh what you felt was spiritual attack and how you felt was spiritual attack and how you felt was spiritual attack and how have you counseledled other pastors and

have you counseledled other pastors and have you counseledled other pastors and aspiring pastors as they think about aspiring pastors as they think about aspiring pastors as they think about this reality? Yes. And I think it this reality? Yes. And I think it this reality? Yes. And I think it usually comes in the area of our usually comes in the area of our usually comes in the area of our desires. So if if you have a discouraged desires. So if if you have a discouraged desires. So if if you have a discouraged pastor, you can bet that Satan is going pastor, you can bet that Satan is going pastor, you can bet that Satan is going to go after that discouragement and and to go after that discouragement and and to go after that discouragement and and is going to try and drive it in a wrong is going to try and drive it in a wrong is going to try and drive it in a wrong direction. If you have a pastor who's direction. If you have a pastor who's direction. If you have a pastor who's whose whose aspirations whether personal whose whose aspirations whether personal whose whose aspirations whether personal or ministerial or ministerial or ministerial have been frustrated and he starts have been frustrated and he starts have been frustrated and he starts looking somewhere else for his looking somewhere else for his looking somewhere else for his fulfillment, Satan will grab hold of fulfillment, Satan will grab hold of fulfillment, Satan will grab hold of that and run with the wind. And I've that and run with the wind. And I've that and run with the wind. And I've certainly and I continue I mean this certainly and I continue I mean this certainly and I continue I mean this it's a it's the same reality. I just it's a it's the same reality. I just it's a it's the same reality. I just told my faculty, I was with my faculty told my faculty, I was with my faculty told my faculty, I was with my faculty recently talking with them and I said, I recently talking with them and I said, I recently talking with them and I said, I I have to remind myself that I believe I have to remind myself that I believe I have to remind myself that I believe in a sovereign God every single day when in a sovereign God every single day when in a sovereign God every single day when I get up because I am tempted to not I get up because I am tempted to not I get up because I am tempted to not trust him to provide what we need in trust him to provide what we need in trust him to provide what we need in order for me to make sure that my people order for me to make sure that my people order for me to make sure that my people can eat, can make sure that my seminary can eat, can make sure that my seminary can eat, can make sure that my seminary students can get through. And I had the students can get through. And I had the students can get through. And I had the same temptations as a pastor when it same temptations as a pastor when it same temptations as a pastor when it came to trusting that the Lord would came to trusting that the Lord would came to trusting that the Lord would bring in the budget so that the staff bring in the budget so that the staff bring in the budget so that the staff that were serving the congregation could that were serving the congregation could that were serving the congregation could be taken care of so that we could carry be taken care of so that we could carry be taken care of so that we could carry on the ministry of the church. And so on the ministry of the church. And so on the ministry of the church. And so I've I've certainly seen for my whole I've I've certainly seen for my whole I've I've certainly seen for my whole ministerial life times where I thought ministerial life times where I thought ministerial life times where I thought that either through discouragement or that either through discouragement or that either through discouragement or through desires drifting that there was

through desires drifting that there was through desires drifting that there was a spiritual warfare going on. And of a spiritual warfare going on. And of a spiritual warfare going on. And of course, I've seen I've seen colleagues course, I've seen I've seen colleagues course, I've seen I've seen colleagues fall in the in the ministry around me. fall in the in the ministry around me. fall in the in the ministry around me. And I think I think we become as And I think I think we become as And I think I think we become as pastors, we become really aware of that pastors, we become really aware of that pastors, we become really aware of that when we see colleagues fall. And that when we see colleagues fall. And that when we see colleagues fall. And that those falls can happen in a lot of those falls can happen in a lot of those falls can happen in a lot of different ways. We think of dramatic different ways. We think of dramatic different ways. We think of dramatic ways like moral failures. But there can ways like moral failures. But there can ways like moral failures. But there can also be falls that happen because of also be falls that happen because of also be falls that happen because of character uh issues. And you can see character uh issues. And you can see character uh issues. And you can see Satan going after those character Satan going after those character Satan going after those character defects. unmortified sins that may seem defects. unmortified sins that may seem defects. unmortified sins that may seem small that become the occasion for the small that become the occasion for the small that become the occasion for the end of a ministry. It can be it can be a end of a ministry. It can be it can be a end of a ministry. It can be it can be a man's anger. You know, I I I know a man's anger. You know, I I I know a man's anger. You know, I I I know a really really wonderful minister who has really really wonderful minister who has really really wonderful minister who has struggled with an ungodly anger for much struggled with an ungodly anger for much struggled with an ungodly anger for much of his life. And the that deployed in of his life. And the that deployed in of his life. And the that deployed in the wrong place at the wrong time can be the wrong place at the wrong time can be the wrong place at the wrong time can be the end of a ministry. And so, Satan has the end of a ministry. And so, Satan has the end of a ministry. And so, Satan has a lot of ways that he can get you, a lot of ways that he can get you, a lot of ways that he can get you, >> right? And we we I've I've just seen >> right? And we we I've I've just seen >> right? And we we I've I've just seen that happen over and over through that happen over and over through that happen over and over through throughout the course of my life. And throughout the course of my life. And throughout the course of my life. And I've also been aware the only reason I'm I've also been aware the only reason I'm I've also been aware the only reason I'm still standing is because of the Lord still standing is because of the Lord still standing is because of the Lord Jesus, because of the work of the Holy Jesus, because of the work of the Holy Jesus, because of the work of the Holy Spirit. It's not because I don't have Spirit. It's not because I don't have Spirit. It's not because I don't have the deficiencies or the defects or the the deficiencies or the defects or the the deficiencies or the defects or the sins or the temptations or the sins or the temptations or the sins or the temptations or the disappointments disappointments disappointments uh that that other brothers have. It's uh that that other brothers have. It's uh that that other brothers have. It's that the Lord has protected. So, you that the Lord has protected. So, you that the Lord has protected. So, you know, I it is something I've been very know, I it is something I've been very know, I it is something I've been very aware of from the very beginning of aware of from the very beginning of aware of from the very beginning of ministry and um and that's why Jeff

ministry and um and that's why Jeff ministry and um and that's why Jeff Thomas, the wonderful longtime pastor of Thomas, the wonderful longtime pastor of Thomas, the wonderful longtime pastor of the Alfred Place Baptist Church in the Alfred Place Baptist Church in the Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberus with Wales, you know, said, "When Aberus with Wales, you know, said, "When Aberus with Wales, you know, said, "When I was a young man, I wanted to be like I was a young man, I wanted to be like I was a young man, I wanted to be like my heroes and I wanted to do some great my heroes and I wanted to do some great my heroes and I wanted to do some great thing for God, but as an older man, I thing for God, but as an older man, I thing for God, but as an older man, I just want to cross the finish line just want to cross the finish line just want to cross the finish line without dishonoring my Lord." And I without dishonoring my Lord." And I without dishonoring my Lord." And I think a lot of that was because he saw think a lot of that was because he saw think a lot of that was because he saw the spiritual warfare that was going on the spiritual warfare that was going on the spiritual warfare that was going on over the course of his ministry and he over the course of his ministry and he over the course of his ministry and he realized I've undervalued crossing the realized I've undervalued crossing the realized I've undervalued crossing the finish line and I've undervalued what it finish line and I've undervalued what it finish line and I've undervalued what it would take in terms of spiritual warfare would take in terms of spiritual warfare would take in terms of spiritual warfare to do that. And that's a lofty to do that. And that's a lofty to do that. And that's a lofty aspiration to to to fight the good aspiration to to to fight the good aspiration to to to fight the good fight, to finish the race, to keep the fight, to finish the race, to keep the fight, to finish the race, to keep the faith. That's a that's a lofty faith. That's a that's a lofty faith. That's a that's a lofty aspiration. And I think younger aspiration. And I think younger aspiration. And I think younger ministers need to need to set their set ministers need to need to set their set ministers need to need to set their set their target on that. As you were their target on that. As you were their target on that. As you were saying, faithfulness is success. All the saying, faithfulness is success. All the saying, faithfulness is success. All the stuff that looks like success when you stuff that looks like success when you stuff that looks like success when you starts out when you start out in starts out when you start out in starts out when you start out in ministry, the Lord will handle that.

ministry, the Lord will handle that. ministry, the Lord will handle that. It's the faithfulness that you need to It's the faithfulness that you need to It's the faithfulness that you need to aim at. He'll take care of the rest. And aim at. He'll take care of the rest. And aim at. He'll take care of the rest. And we'll all get used in different ways, we'll all get used in different ways, we'll all get used in different ways, and that'll be fine. But if we can if we and that'll be fine. But if we can if we and that'll be fine. But if we can if we can if we can cross the finish line in can if we can cross the finish line in can if we can cross the finish line in faithfulness, we will rejoice. Yeah. And faithfulness, we will rejoice. Yeah. And faithfulness, we will rejoice. Yeah. And one of the ways again we cross the one of the ways again we cross the one of the ways again we cross the finish line is with the help of each finish line is with the help of each finish line is with the help of each other. Uh to quote Spurgeon again, he other. Uh to quote Spurgeon again, he other. Uh to quote Spurgeon again, he said, "Satan hates Christian fellowship. said, "Satan hates Christian fellowship. said, "Satan hates Christian fellowship. It is the devil's policy to keep It is the devil's policy to keep It is the devil's policy to keep Christians apart." Which means that one Christians apart." Which means that one Christians apart." Which means that one of the ways we defy the devil in our of the ways we defy the devil in our of the ways we defy the devil in our lives is by leaning into our church lives is by leaning into our church lives is by leaning into our church family. That's good. family. That's good. family. That's good. >> And I think of crossing the finish line. >> And I think of crossing the finish line. >> And I think of crossing the finish line. I think of that that classic scene at I think of that that classic scene at I think of that that classic scene at the end of Pilgrim's Progress. you know, the end of Pilgrim's Progress. you know, the end of Pilgrim's Progress. you know, the only way Christian is able to get the only way Christian is able to get the only way Christian is able to get over the the deep, turbulent, troubled over the the deep, turbulent, troubled over the the deep, turbulent, troubled waters is with the help of his friend, waters is with the help of his friend, waters is with the help of his friend, hopeful. Um, and so I think that's hopeful. Um, and so I think that's hopeful. Um, and so I think that's another area that Satan attacks, not another area that Satan attacks, not another area that Satan attacks, not just through uh discouragement in the just through uh discouragement in the just through uh discouragement in the life of the minister, but also in life of the minister, but also in life of the minister, but also in attacking church unity. Um, we did a attacking church unity. Um, we did a attacking church unity. Um, we did a whole episode on deacons, but it's whole episode on deacons, but it's whole episode on deacons, but it's noteworthy to me that Acts chapter 6 is noteworthy to me that Acts chapter 6 is noteworthy to me that Acts chapter 6 is the third in a three-pronged attack that the third in a three-pronged attack that the third in a three-pronged attack that Satan brings against the church. In Acts Satan brings against the church. In Acts Satan brings against the church. In Acts four, he tries to take the church out four, he tries to take the church out four, he tries to take the church out via persecution and fails. Acts five, he via persecution and fails. Acts five, he via persecution and fails. Acts five, he tries to take the church out via tries to take the church out via tries to take the church out via deception and fails. That's the story of deception and fails. That's the story of deception and fails. That's the story of Ananas and Safh. Acts six, he tries a Ananas and Safh. Acts six, he tries a Ananas and Safh. Acts six, he tries a third measure, distraction.

third measure, distraction. third measure, distraction. >> And I think that especially in our age >> And I think that especially in our age >> And I think that especially in our age of digital distraction, that is one of of digital distraction, that is one of of digital distraction, that is one of the ways that Satan is attacking us. the ways that Satan is attacking us. the ways that Satan is attacking us. It's not always going to be in dramatic It's not always going to be in dramatic It's not always going to be in dramatic ways. He He is far more likely to dull ways. He He is far more likely to dull ways. He He is far more likely to dull your affections over a decade than to your affections over a decade than to your affections over a decade than to destroy your soul in a day. Correct. And destroy your soul in a day. Correct. And destroy your soul in a day. Correct. And boy, Amen. I've I I regularly say to boy, Amen. I've I I regularly say to boy, Amen. I've I I regularly say to those that are preparing for the those that are preparing for the those that are preparing for the ministry, distraction may be our biggest ministry, distraction may be our biggest ministry, distraction may be our biggest challenge today. And um and and Satan challenge today. And um and and Satan challenge today. And um and and Satan will sail with the wind. That's a phrase will sail with the wind. That's a phrase will sail with the wind. That's a phrase that um from Brooks that um from Brooks that um from Brooks >> that Brooks loves to use. and he he >> that Brooks loves to use. and he he >> that Brooks loves to use. and he he won't do any more than he needs to do. won't do any more than he needs to do. won't do any more than he needs to do. And a little nudge to distraction may be And a little nudge to distraction may be And a little nudge to distraction may be all that he needs to completely all that he needs to completely all that he needs to completely preoccupy someone from the duties that preoccupy someone from the duties that preoccupy someone from the duties that they ought to be throwing themselves they ought to be throwing themselves they ought to be throwing themselves into or to the trust that they ought to into or to the trust that they ought to into or to the trust that they ought to be uh manifesting in their lives or uh be uh manifesting in their lives or uh be uh manifesting in their lives or uh that keeps them from getting relief from that keeps them from getting relief from that keeps them from getting relief from the discouragement that they want relief the discouragement that they want relief the discouragement that they want relief from. As we start to uh finish this from. As we start to uh finish this from. As we start to uh finish this episode, I I just want to remind all of episode, I I just want to remind all of episode, I I just want to remind all of our listeners of that invincible promise our listeners of that invincible promise our listeners of that invincible promise from the Lord Jesus. Matthew 16:18, I from the Lord Jesus. Matthew 16:18, I from the Lord Jesus. Matthew 16:18, I will build my church and the gates of will build my church and the gates of will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. It's a hell will not prevail against it. It's a hell will not prevail against it. It's a reminder to all of us ministers that reminder to all of us ministers that reminder to all of us ministers that doing the Lord's work in your own way doing the Lord's work in your own way doing the Lord's work in your own way and doing the devil's work are basically

and doing the devil's work are basically and doing the devil's work are basically the same thing. We have to do the Lord's the same thing. We have to do the Lord's the same thing. We have to do the Lord's work in the Lord's way. We We have to work in the Lord's way. We We have to work in the Lord's way. We We have to lean on him and encourage our people to lean on him and encourage our people to lean on him and encourage our people to do the same. Remembering that it's his do the same. Remembering that it's his do the same. Remembering that it's his church and that ultimately his kingdom church and that ultimately his kingdom church and that ultimately his kingdom is going to advance not because of our is going to advance not because of our is going to advance not because of our creativity, our ingenuity, our creativity, our ingenuity, our creativity, our ingenuity, our strategies, our gifting. It's going to strategies, our gifting. It's going to strategies, our gifting. It's going to advance because there has been an advance because there has been an advance because there has been an invincible promise. invincible promise. invincible promise. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Given from heaven to those of us who >> Given from heaven to those of us who >> Given from heaven to those of us who bear the gospel. bear the gospel. bear the gospel. >> That's good. I love your addition of the >> That's good. I love your addition of the >> That's good. I love your addition of the doctrine of the church to uh to Brook's doctrine of the church to uh to Brook's doctrine of the church to uh to Brook's four things to kind of keep your eye on. four things to kind of keep your eye on. four things to kind of keep your eye on. And I would say another way that you can And I would say another way that you can And I would say another way that you can experience that is not only faithful experience that is not only faithful experience that is not only faithful scriptural preaching and being around scriptural preaching and being around scriptural preaching and being around brothers and sisters that love the word brothers and sisters that love the word brothers and sisters that love the word and live the Christian life. But there and live the Christian life. But there and live the Christian life. But there have been people uniquely gifted over have been people uniquely gifted over have been people uniquely gifted over the course of Christianity sensitive to the course of Christianity sensitive to the course of Christianity sensitive to these spiritual realities that are a these spiritual realities that are a these spiritual realities that are a help to us. I've already mentioned help to us. I've already mentioned help to us. I've already mentioned Thomas Brooks. Um, an interesting one Thomas Brooks. Um, an interesting one Thomas Brooks. Um, an interesting one that you might not think of is Abraham that you might not think of is Abraham that you might not think of is Abraham Kyper in his work on the Holy Spirit Kyper in his work on the Holy Spirit Kyper in his work on the Holy Spirit does a wonderful job of saying something does a wonderful job of saying something does a wonderful job of saying something to this effect that if you could see the to this effect that if you could see the to this effect that if you could see the spiritual battle that is being waged spiritual battle that is being waged spiritual battle that is being waged around you right now, it is a greater around you right now, it is a greater around you right now, it is a greater battle than any earthly battle ever battle than any earthly battle ever battle than any earthly battle ever fought. And so here's Kyper who's often fought. And so here's Kyper who's often fought. And so here's Kyper who's often depicted as sort of, you know, heady and depicted as sort of, you know, heady and depicted as sort of, you know, heady and and intellectual and building worldviews and intellectual and building worldviews and intellectual and building worldviews and things like this, but he's very very

and things like this, but he's very very and things like this, but he's very very attuned to spiritual realities that attuned to spiritual realities that attuned to spiritual realities that we're talking about today. Kyper, his we're talking about today. Kyper, his we're talking about today. Kyper, his work on the Holy Spirit is a help. work on the Holy Spirit is a help. work on the Holy Spirit is a help. Another person has been a huge help to Another person has been a huge help to Another person has been a huge help to me is Douglas F. Kelly. He was my senior me is Douglas F. Kelly. He was my senior me is Douglas F. Kelly. He was my senior colleague at RTS in Jackson, went on to colleague at RTS in Jackson, went on to colleague at RTS in Jackson, went on to teach at RTS Charlotte for many years. teach at RTS Charlotte for many years. teach at RTS Charlotte for many years. And Dr. I' I've I've said to many And Dr. I' I've I've said to many And Dr. I' I've I've said to many people, I don't know if there's a person people, I don't know if there's a person people, I don't know if there's a person who has taught me more about the unseen who has taught me more about the unseen who has taught me more about the unseen world of spiritual reality than than Dr. world of spiritual reality than than Dr. world of spiritual reality than than Dr. Kelly. I he has this ability to make the Kelly. I he has this ability to make the Kelly. I he has this ability to make the unseen unseen unseen feel so tangible in such a biblical way. feel so tangible in such a biblical way. feel so tangible in such a biblical way. And so if you get a chance to read his And so if you get a chance to read his And so if you get a chance to read his sermons or listen to his sermons, sermons or listen to his sermons, sermons or listen to his sermons, they're online or read some of his they're online or read some of his they're online or read some of his books. Um there's he's got a commentary books. Um there's he's got a commentary books. Um there's he's got a commentary on first or 2 Corinthians that it has on first or 2 Corinthians that it has on first or 2 Corinthians that it has something like wasteland in it. I can't something like wasteland in it. I can't something like wasteland in it. I can't remember. It's not God in the wasteland remember. It's not God in the wasteland remember. It's not God in the wasteland like uh David Wells book, but it's like uh David Wells book, but it's like uh David Wells book, but it's something like, you know, messages from something like, you know, messages from something like, you know, messages from the wasteland or something like this.

the wasteland or something like this. the wasteland or something like this. And it it it does a tremendous job of of And it it it does a tremendous job of of And it it it does a tremendous job of of just clueing you in to the spiritual just clueing you in to the spiritual just clueing you in to the spiritual realities that swirl around us and realities that swirl around us and realities that swirl around us and impinge upon us as we live the Christian impinge upon us as we live the Christian impinge upon us as we live the Christian life. And Dr. Kelly, it was a it was a life. And Dr. Kelly, it was a it was a life. And Dr. Kelly, it was a it was a wonderful blessing for me. This kind of wonderful blessing for me. This kind of wonderful blessing for me. This kind of >> there new life in the wasteland. >> there new life in the wasteland. >> there new life in the wasteland. >> New life in the wasteland. >> New life in the wasteland. >> New life in the wasteland. >> Second Corinthians on the cost and glory >> Second Corinthians on the cost and glory >> Second Corinthians on the cost and glory of Christian ministry. of Christian ministry. of Christian ministry. >> So good. and for ministers because he's >> So good. and for ministers because he's >> So good. and for ministers because he's thinking about ministers there as as as thinking about ministers there as as as thinking about ministers there as as as we think about spiritual warfare in the we think about spiritual warfare in the we think about spiritual warfare in the ministry. He's your friend and and guide ministry. He's your friend and and guide ministry. He's your friend and and guide and I got to watch him live this and and I got to watch him live this and and I got to watch him live this and that points back to your you need the that points back to your you need the that points back to your you need the church, right? I couldn't I couldn't do church, right? I couldn't I couldn't do church, right? I couldn't I couldn't do this alone, just me and Jesus in my this alone, just me and Jesus in my this alone, just me and Jesus in my Bible, but to have Doug and his family Bible, but to have Doug and his family Bible, but to have Doug and his family and the congregation around you, that's and the congregation around you, that's and the congregation around you, that's a tremendous encouragement. And so I a tremendous encouragement. And so I a tremendous encouragement. And so I think looking for whether it's you know think looking for whether it's you know think looking for whether it's you know and missionaries are often you know good and missionaries are often you know good and missionaries are often you know good godly solid missionaries are often very godly solid missionaries are often very godly solid missionaries are often very attuned to this. If you read the the attuned to this. If you read the the attuned to this. If you read the the biography of of John Patton the the biography of of John Patton the the biography of of John Patton the the great Scottish missionary. He's keenly great Scottish missionary. He's keenly great Scottish missionary. He's keenly aware of the spiritual realities that aware of the spiritual realities that aware of the spiritual realities that impact us. And so there there's a lot of impact us. And so there there's a lot of impact us. And so there there's a lot of help in reading. There's a lot of help help in reading. There's a lot of help help in reading. There's a lot of help from the church. There's a lot of help from the church. There's a lot of help from the church. There's a lot of help from ministers. um to to to help us from ministers. um to to to help us from ministers. um to to to help us figure out how do we forge this figure out how do we forge this figure out how do we forge this particular stream in ministry in the particular stream in ministry in the particular stream in ministry in the Christian life? Yeah. Well, second Christian life? Yeah. Well, second Christian life? Yeah. Well, second Corinthians would be a great book to

Corinthians would be a great book to Corinthians would be a great book to camp out in. It's the most camp out in. It's the most camp out in. It's the most autobiographical of Paul's letters. It autobiographical of Paul's letters. It autobiographical of Paul's letters. It it's visceral. His heart is bleeding on it's visceral. His heart is bleeding on it's visceral. His heart is bleeding on every page. Um and another classic book every page. Um and another classic book every page. Um and another classic book that uh listeners should read or reread, that uh listeners should read or reread, that uh listeners should read or reread, I think, would be the Screw Tape I think, would be the Screw Tape I think, would be the Screw Tape Letters. Yes. U by CS Lewis. just Letters. Yes. U by CS Lewis. just Letters. Yes. U by CS Lewis. just incredibly trenchant insight into the incredibly trenchant insight into the incredibly trenchant insight into the condition of the human heart and the condition of the human heart and the condition of the human heart and the schemes of the evil one. And I'll just schemes of the evil one. And I'll just schemes of the evil one. And I'll just end by saying this uh brother listening end by saying this uh brother listening end by saying this uh brother listening James 4:7 says, "Resist the devil and he James 4:7 says, "Resist the devil and he James 4:7 says, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." It's striking to me will flee from you." It's striking to me will flee from you." It's striking to me that that's a promise. that that's a promise. that that's a promise. >> He will flee from you. You can make >> He will flee from you. You can make >> He will flee from you. You can make Satan leave you alone. Satan leave you alone. Satan leave you alone. >> Uh if you if you resist him, if you lean >> Uh if you if you resist him, if you lean >> Uh if you if you resist him, if you lean into the ordinary means of grace and to into the ordinary means of grace and to into the ordinary means of grace and to the communion of the saints and if you the communion of the saints and if you the communion of the saints and if you you if you fight sin by the power of the you if you fight sin by the power of the you if you fight sin by the power of the Holy Spirit and you keep your gaze fixed Holy Spirit and you keep your gaze fixed Holy Spirit and you keep your gaze fixed on Christ, he will finally give up. on Christ, he will finally give up. on Christ, he will finally give up. Satan will finally give up and seek out Satan will finally give up and seek out Satan will finally give up and seek out other prey. other prey. other prey. >> Right? But even with that great >> Right? But even with that great >> Right? But even with that great confidence league, the reality is that confidence league, the reality is that confidence league, the reality is that many of us, including probably many of many of us, including probably many of many of us, including probably many of our listeners, are feeling discouraged our listeners, are feeling discouraged our listeners, are feeling discouraged in the depths, weighed down. And uh you in the depths, weighed down. And uh you in the depths, weighed down. And uh you found the the Spurgeon quote on Psalm found the the Spurgeon quote on Psalm found the the Spurgeon quote on Psalm 88. And 88. And 88. And >> yeah, and and let me let me just say, >> yeah, and and let me let me just say, >> yeah, and and let me let me just say, you started with that as one of the you started with that as one of the you started with that as one of the applications at the very beginning of applications at the very beginning of applications at the very beginning of the conversation talking about how Satan the conversation talking about how Satan the conversation talking about how Satan will try to discourage us. And it's very will try to discourage us. And it's very will try to discourage us. And it's very interesting that that's where Brook interesting that that's where Brook interesting that that's where Brook starts. That's his first the first set starts. That's his first the first set starts. That's his first the first set of temptations that he deals with is are

of temptations that he deals with is are of temptations that he deals with is are the ways that Satan discourages us. And the ways that Satan discourages us. And the ways that Satan discourages us. And Spurgeon understood that experientially. Spurgeon understood that experientially. Spurgeon understood that experientially. And you can really hear it. This is this And you can really hear it. This is this And you can really hear it. This is this is from the Treasury of David. So that is from the Treasury of David. So that is from the Treasury of David. So that that's something everybody needs to have that's something everybody needs to have that's something everybody needs to have devotionally as well as expositionally. devotionally as well as expositionally. devotionally as well as expositionally. That's his exposition and notes on the That's his exposition and notes on the That's his exposition and notes on the Psalms. And this comes from Psalm 88, Psalms. And this comes from Psalm 88, Psalms. And this comes from Psalm 88, which is one of the darkest of the which is one of the darkest of the which is one of the darkest of the Psalms. There's they're not there's not Psalms. There's they're not there's not Psalms. There's they're not there's not much light and hope in Psalm 88. And much light and hope in Psalm 88. And much light and hope in Psalm 88. And Spurgeon just starts he starts talking Spurgeon just starts he starts talking Spurgeon just starts he starts talking about the spiritual discouragement that about the spiritual discouragement that about the spiritual discouragement that a believer can feel. And a minister can a believer can feel. And a minister can a believer can feel. And a minister can feel this. And he says this, "The mind feel this. And he says this, "The mind feel this. And he says this, "The mind can descend far lower than the body, for can descend far lower than the body, for can descend far lower than the body, for there are bottomless pits. The flesh can there are bottomless pits. The flesh can there are bottomless pits. The flesh can bear only a certain number of wounds and bear only a certain number of wounds and bear only a certain number of wounds and no more. But the soul can bleed in no more. But the soul can bleed in no more. But the soul can bleed in 10,000 ways and die over and over again 10,000 ways and die over and over again 10,000 ways and die over and over again each hour. It is grievous to the good each hour. It is grievous to the good each hour. It is grievous to the good man to see the Lord whom he loves laying man to see the Lord whom he loves laying man to see the Lord whom he loves laying him in the seeler of despondency, piling him in the seeler of despondency, piling him in the seeler of despondency, piling nightshade upon him and putting out all nightshade upon him and putting out all nightshade upon him and putting out all his candles and heaping over him solid his candles and heaping over him solid his candles and heaping over him solid masses of sorrow. And then he goes on to masses of sorrow. And then he goes on to masses of sorrow. And then he goes on to say, "He who now feebly expounds these say, "He who now feebly expounds these say, "He who now feebly expounds these words knows within himself more than he words knows within himself more than he words knows within himself more than he would care or dare to tell of the would care or dare to tell of the would care or dare to tell of the abysses of inward anguish." So Spurgeon abysses of inward anguish." So Spurgeon abysses of inward anguish." So Spurgeon is telling you, I know this personally.

is telling you, I know this personally. is telling you, I know this personally. I've felt this myself. I feel this I've felt this myself. I feel this I've felt this myself. I feel this myself. And he says this, "Those who myself. And he says this, "Those who myself. And he says this, "Those who knows know this bitterness by experience knows know this bitterness by experience knows know this bitterness by experience will sympathize. but from others it will sympathize. but from others it will sympathize. but from others it would be idle to expect pity, nor would would be idle to expect pity, nor would would be idle to expect pity, nor would their pity be worth the having if it their pity be worth the having if it their pity be worth the having if it could be obtained. So sometimes we have could be obtained. So sometimes we have could be obtained. So sometimes we have Job's counselors around us uh when we're Job's counselors around us uh when we're Job's counselors around us uh when we're experiencing this discouragement. He experiencing this discouragement. He experiencing this discouragement. He says, but here's here's his consolation. says, but here's here's his consolation. says, but here's here's his consolation. It is an unspeakable consolation that It is an unspeakable consolation that It is an unspeakable consolation that our Lord Jesus knows this experience our Lord Jesus knows this experience our Lord Jesus knows this experience right well. Having with the exception of right well. Having with the exception of right well. Having with the exception of the sin of it felt it all and more than the sin of it felt it all and more than the sin of it felt it all and more than all in Gethsemane when he was exceeding all in Gethsemane when he was exceeding all in Gethsemane when he was exceeding sorrowful even unto death. And that is sorrowful even unto death. And that is sorrowful even unto death. And that is that's a tremendous hope to hang on as that's a tremendous hope to hang on as that's a tremendous hope to hang on as we talk about the things that the Lord we talk about the things that the Lord we talk about the things that the Lord has given to us to hold on to in these has given to us to hold on to in these has given to us to hold on to in these discouragements. Whether or not you feel discouragements. Whether or not you feel discouragements. Whether or not you feel like it, brother, minister, he who is in like it, brother, minister, he who is in like it, brother, minister, he who is in you is greater than he who is in the you is greater than he who is in the you is greater than he who is in the world. Why don't you pray, Lig, for for world. Why don't you pray, Lig, for for world. Why don't you pray, Lig, for for ministers who are feeling discouraged.

ministers who are feeling discouraged. ministers who are feeling discouraged. Heavenly Father, we know that one of the Heavenly Father, we know that one of the Heavenly Father, we know that one of the schemes of the evil one is to discourage schemes of the evil one is to discourage schemes of the evil one is to discourage faithful ministers. And there are no faithful ministers. And there are no faithful ministers. And there are no doubt faithful ministers listening uh to doubt faithful ministers listening uh to doubt faithful ministers listening uh to this conversation who know depths of this conversation who know depths of this conversation who know depths of discouragement that I couldn't even discouragement that I couldn't even discouragement that I couldn't even describe. And yet you know their hearts describe. And yet you know their hearts describe. And yet you know their hearts and you know their needs and you know and you know their needs and you know and you know their needs and you know that Satan would love to keep them in that Satan would love to keep them in that Satan would love to keep them in dispondency. So I ask in the name of the dispondency. So I ask in the name of the dispondency. So I ask in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, their savior and Lord Jesus Christ, their savior and Lord Jesus Christ, their savior and mediator, the one who bled, the one who mediator, the one who bled, the one who mediator, the one who bled, the one who experienced this kind of despair in the experienced this kind of despair in the experienced this kind of despair in the garden of Gethsemane on their behalf and garden of Gethsemane on their behalf and garden of Gethsemane on their behalf and who poured out the everliving all who poured out the everliving all who poured out the everliving all powerful Holy Spirit upon them and in powerful Holy Spirit upon them and in powerful Holy Spirit upon them and in them to reclaim them from the death and them to reclaim them from the death and them to reclaim them from the death and the sin that Satan has plunged this the sin that Satan has plunged this the sin that Satan has plunged this world into. I pray, oh God, that you world into. I pray, oh God, that you world into. I pray, oh God, that you would encourage them by the spirit. That would encourage them by the spirit. That would encourage them by the spirit. That their eyes would look to Jesus. That their eyes would look to Jesus. That their eyes would look to Jesus. That they would know that in him they have a they would know that in him they have a they would know that in him they have a brother that understands the deepest brother that understands the deepest brother that understands the deepest depths of their despair and yet who was depths of their despair and yet who was depths of their despair and yet who was raised again from the dead and who will raised again from the dead and who will raised again from the dead and who will raise them from their despair and their raise them from their despair and their raise them from their despair and their discouragement and their despondency.

discouragement and their despondency. discouragement and their despondency. Grant that they would by the Holy Spirit Grant that they would by the Holy Spirit Grant that they would by the Holy Spirit trust in that Savior and be brought out trust in that Savior and be brought out trust in that Savior and be brought out of the pit and placed in a in a in a of the pit and placed in a in a in a of the pit and placed in a in a in a field of of green pasture with with field of of green pasture with with field of of green pasture with with quiet waters where their shepherd will quiet waters where their shepherd will quiet waters where their shepherd will lead them. And I ask this in Jesus' lead them. And I ask this in Jesus' lead them. And I ask this in Jesus' name. Amen. name. Amen. name. Amen. Amen. [music] Amen. [music] Amen. [music] We hope this episode of the Everyday We hope this episode of the Everyday We hope this episode of the Everyday Pastor has been encouraging to you. And Pastor has been encouraging to you. And Pastor has been encouraging to you. And if you can think of someone in ministry if you can think of someone in ministry if you can think of someone in ministry that you think it might also encourage, that you think it might also encourage, that you think it might also encourage, please send it to them because we please send it to them because we please send it to them because we [music] want to continue helping pastors [music] want to continue helping pastors [music] want to continue helping pastors find fresh joy in the work of ministry.