Why Everything Never Feels Like Enough

I think learning to receive what God has I think learning to receive what God has already given me. Learning to receive already given me. Learning to receive already given me. Learning to receive the limits of the lot he's ordained for the limits of the lot he's ordained for the limits of the lot he's ordained for me as good for me uh are lessons I me as good for me uh are lessons I me as good for me uh are lessons I continue to learn kind of my ambition continue to learn kind of my ambition continue to learn kind of my ambition butdding up against hard realities and butdding up against hard realities and butdding up against hard realities and limits he's ordained. The kind of limits he's ordained. The kind of limits he's ordained. The kind of twofold uh don't strive for the wind and twofold uh don't strive for the wind and twofold uh don't strive for the wind and receive the goodness of what God's given receive the goodness of what God's given receive the goodness of what God's given you as a gift. Uh yeah, that continues you as a gift. Uh yeah, that continues you as a gift. Uh yeah, that continues to to bear fruit in my life. to to bear fruit in my life. to to bear fruit in my life. [Music] [Music] [Music] Does it feel like you should be happy, Does it feel like you should be happy, Does it feel like you should be happy, you want to be happy, and you try to be you want to be happy, and you try to be you want to be happy, and you try to be happy, but somehow you can't? It's a happy, but somehow you can't? It's a happy, but somehow you can't? It's a simple and common but poignant question. simple and common but poignant question. simple and common but poignant question. It's also in the preface to the new It's also in the preface to the new It's also in the preface to the new book, Everything is Never Enough. book, Everything is Never Enough. book, Everything is Never Enough. Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Resilient Happiness written by Bobby Resilient Happiness written by Bobby Resilient Happiness written by Bobby Jameson. He is the senior pastor of Jameson. He is the senior pastor of Jameson. He is the senior pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Chapel Hill, Trinity Baptist Church in Chapel Hill, Trinity Baptist Church in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. He earned his PhD from North Carolina. He earned his PhD from North Carolina. He earned his PhD from the University of Cambridge and the University of Cambridge and the University of Cambridge and previously served on the pastoral staff previously served on the pastoral staff previously served on the pastoral staff of Capitol Hill Baptist Church. This is of Capitol Hill Baptist Church. This is of Capitol Hill Baptist Church. This is a book about happiness that explains a book about happiness that explains a book about happiness that explains you're probably looking for it in all you're probably looking for it in all you're probably looking for it in all the wrong places. Jameson brings us into the wrong places. Jameson brings us into the wrong places. Jameson brings us into the world of Ecclesiastes and his the world of Ecclesiastes and his the world of Ecclesiastes and his enigmatic author Cohellet. The world's enigmatic author Cohellet. The world's enigmatic author Cohellet. The world's absurdity. His inspired words help us absurdity. His inspired words help us absurdity. His inspired words help us see our biggest problem with life is see our biggest problem with life is see our biggest problem with life is death. The epitome of pride is believing

death. The epitome of pride is believing death. The epitome of pride is believing we can overcome it. We'll never be happy we can overcome it. We'll never be happy we can overcome it. We'll never be happy until we surrender humility inhumility until we surrender humility inhumility until we surrender humility inhumility to its inevitability. to its inevitability. to its inevitability. And Jameson guides us through three And Jameson guides us through three And Jameson guides us through three stories that guide that that guide us on stories that guide that that guide us on stories that guide that that guide us on a life well-lived. The contentment of a life well-lived. The contentment of a life well-lived. The contentment of limits, the joys of resonance and limits, the joys of resonance and limits, the joys of resonance and happiness you can't lose in this world happiness you can't lose in this world happiness you can't lose in this world because it comes from another world. because it comes from another world. because it comes from another world. He helps us to see, quote, "Happiness is He helps us to see, quote, "Happiness is He helps us to see, quote, "Happiness is not striving for gain from life, but not striving for gain from life, but not striving for gain from life, but receiving life itself as a gift." Now, receiving life itself as a gift." Now, receiving life itself as a gift." Now, I'm excited to talk with Bobby about one I'm excited to talk with Bobby about one I'm excited to talk with Bobby about one of my favorite books of 2025. He was of my favorite books of 2025. He was of my favorite books of 2025. He was encouraged along the way by one of our encouraged along the way by one of our encouraged along the way by one of our dearest friends, Matt McCulla. So, um, dearest friends, Matt McCulla. So, um, dearest friends, Matt McCulla. So, um, Matt probably doesn't listen to podcasts Matt probably doesn't listen to podcasts Matt probably doesn't listen to podcasts at all. I'm not sure. I don't know if at all. I'm not sure. I don't know if at all. I'm not sure. I don't know if that fits into his antisocial media pay that fits into his antisocial media pay that fits into his antisocial media pay no attention to me persona, but anyway, no attention to me persona, but anyway, no attention to me persona, but anyway, if you're out there, Matt, shout out if you're out there, Matt, shout out if you're out there, Matt, shout out from your friends here. Uh, with Bobby, from your friends here. Uh, with Bobby, from your friends here. Uh, with Bobby, we'll also talk about money, sadness, we'll also talk about money, sadness, we'll also talk about money, sadness, and the categorical imperative of late and the categorical imperative of late and the categorical imperative of late modernity. Love that. Great stuff. modernity. Love that. Great stuff. modernity. Love that. Great stuff. Bobby, thanks for joining me on Gospel Bobby, thanks for joining me on Gospel Bobby, thanks for joining me on Gospel Bound.

Bound. Bound. >> Thanks for having me. Thanks for that >> Thanks for having me. Thanks for that >> Thanks for having me. Thanks for that warm welcome. warm welcome. warm welcome. >> All right, tell us a little bit about >> All right, tell us a little bit about >> All right, tell us a little bit about this Cohellet, the preacher behind this Cohellet, the preacher behind this Cohellet, the preacher behind Ecclesiastes. Yeah, he um introduces Ecclesiastes. Yeah, he um introduces Ecclesiastes. Yeah, he um introduces himself just with that title. It's a himself just with that title. It's a himself just with that title. It's a Hebrew word meaning one who gathers, one Hebrew word meaning one who gathers, one Hebrew word meaning one who gathers, one who assembles, and by implication who assembles, and by implication who assembles, and by implication seemingly one who teaches in an seemingly one who teaches in an seemingly one who teaches in an assembly. Uh, of course, uh, throughout assembly. Uh, of course, uh, throughout assembly. Uh, of course, uh, throughout much of church history, people have much of church history, people have much of church history, people have taken him to be Solomon. He's not named taken him to be Solomon. He's not named taken him to be Solomon. He's not named as Solomon or identified as Solomon. I as Solomon or identified as Solomon. I as Solomon or identified as Solomon. I think it could be Solomon. He just think it could be Solomon. He just think it could be Solomon. He just doesn't say so explicitly. So, I just doesn't say so explicitly. So, I just doesn't say so explicitly. So, I just call him Cohellet. I stick with his kind call him Cohellet. I stick with his kind call him Cohellet. I stick with his kind of self designation. And he I guess he's of self designation. And he I guess he's of self designation. And he I guess he's one of the unique things about his role one of the unique things about his role one of the unique things about his role and voice in the canon of scripture is and voice in the canon of scripture is and voice in the canon of scripture is that he's really speaking from that he's really speaking from that he's really speaking from experience. Yeah. experience. Yeah. experience. Yeah. >> He's not giving us a direct thus says >> He's not giving us a direct thus says >> He's not giving us a direct thus says the Lord. He's not reporting the kind of the Lord. He's not reporting the kind of the Lord. He's not reporting the kind of large scale history of God's dealings to large scale history of God's dealings to large scale history of God's dealings to this people. He's telling us what he this people. He's telling us what he this people. He's telling us what he did, what he experienced, what he did, what he experienced, what he did, what he experienced, what he suffered. He even kind of set out with suffered. He even kind of set out with suffered. He even kind of set out with this experiment to live life to the this experiment to live life to the this experiment to live life to the full, sort of drain it to the bottom and full, sort of drain it to the bottom and full, sort of drain it to the bottom and then report back. So his his then report back. So his his then report back. So his his qualifications are more like been there, qualifications are more like been there, qualifications are more like been there, done that, seen it, lived it. Nobody has done that, seen it, lived it. Nobody has done that, seen it, lived it. Nobody has more experience kind of cred than I do.

more experience kind of cred than I do. more experience kind of cred than I do. >> Is there a reason to think he's not >> Is there a reason to think he's not >> Is there a reason to think he's not Solomon? Solomon? Solomon? >> Oh, there's kind of subtle scholarly >> Oh, there's kind of subtle scholarly >> Oh, there's kind of subtle scholarly debates about the language he's using debates about the language he's using debates about the language he's using and whether it's kind of Hebrew that and whether it's kind of Hebrew that and whether it's kind of Hebrew that could have only come in later. I think could have only come in later. I think could have only come in later. I think there's also a little bit of, you know, there's also a little bit of, you know, there's also a little bit of, you know, it could be a little bit difficult if it could be a little bit difficult if it could be a little bit difficult if you're trying to splice Ecclesiastes in you're trying to splice Ecclesiastes in you're trying to splice Ecclesiastes in to Solomon's life story. Where do you to Solomon's life story. Where do you to Solomon's life story. Where do you place it? Um, you know, is this Solomon place it? Um, you know, is this Solomon place it? Um, you know, is this Solomon at the end of his life kind of after at the end of his life kind of after at the end of his life kind of after what we learn in the books of Kings kind what we learn in the books of Kings kind what we learn in the books of Kings kind of repenting and looking back? I think of repenting and looking back? I think of repenting and looking back? I think there's some difficulties there. Not there's some difficulties there. Not there's some difficulties there. Not that they're insurmountable. I just that they're insurmountable. I just that they're insurmountable. I just don't have a firm stance. don't have a firm stance. don't have a firm stance. >> Yeah. I mean, it for the preacher, it >> Yeah. I mean, it for the preacher, it >> Yeah. I mean, it for the preacher, it makes it a little bit more interesting makes it a little bit more interesting makes it a little bit more interesting when you can draw in Solomon and applies when you can draw in Solomon and applies when you can draw in Solomon and applies because we have so much of that because we have so much of that because we have so much of that narrative and so much of what we know narrative and so much of what we know narrative and so much of what we know about Solomon applies about Solomon applies about Solomon applies >> to it's consistent with what we see in >> to it's consistent with what we see in >> to it's consistent with what we see in Ecclesiastes. If there's any biblical Ecclesiastes. If there's any biblical Ecclesiastes. If there's any biblical character who would seem to match the character who would seem to match the character who would seem to match the preacher, it would seem to be Solomon. preacher, it would seem to be Solomon. preacher, it would seem to be Solomon. You also have you also have his dad You also have you also have his dad You also have you also have his dad having written quite a bit of reflection having written quite a bit of reflection having written quite a bit of reflection along these same lines. So doesn't seem along these same lines. So doesn't seem along these same lines. So doesn't seem to be completely out of character with to be completely out of character with to be completely out of character with the family.

the family. the family. >> And you know, obviously there's a >> And you know, obviously there's a >> And you know, obviously there's a different uh angle and emphasis and tone different uh angle and emphasis and tone different uh angle and emphasis and tone than Proverbs. But one way to look at it than Proverbs. But one way to look at it than Proverbs. But one way to look at it is to say Ecclesiastes ends where is to say Ecclesiastes ends where is to say Ecclesiastes ends where Proverbs begins. So even apart from the Proverbs begins. So even apart from the Proverbs begins. So even apart from the question of authorship, they they have a question of authorship, they they have a question of authorship, they they have a strikingly different emphasis. And yet strikingly different emphasis. And yet strikingly different emphasis. And yet Ecclesiastes winds up with fear God and Ecclesiastes winds up with fear God and Ecclesiastes winds up with fear God and obey his commandments obey his commandments obey his commandments >> kind of because he's explored >> kind of because he's explored >> kind of because he's explored everything. He's lived everything and everything. He's lived everything and everything. He's lived everything and this is what it really does all boil this is what it really does all boil this is what it really does all boil down to. And of course, Proverbs starts down to. And of course, Proverbs starts down to. And of course, Proverbs starts from there and builds there. The the from there and builds there. The the from there and builds there. The the fear of the Lord is the beginning of fear of the Lord is the beginning of fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. wisdom. wisdom. >> So I do think there's a fit and a >> So I do think there's a fit and a >> So I do think there's a fit and a harmony. Not that the same person, you harmony. Not that the same person, you harmony. Not that the same person, you know, couldn't have written both these know, couldn't have written both these know, couldn't have written both these books. Ultimately, the Holy Spirit wrote books. Ultimately, the Holy Spirit wrote books. Ultimately, the Holy Spirit wrote both these books, both these books, both these books, >> right? Absolutely. So, this could apply >> right? Absolutely. So, this could apply >> right? Absolutely. So, this could apply to both Ecclesiastes, which I don't to both Ecclesiastes, which I don't to both Ecclesiastes, which I don't think is probably the first place that think is probably the first place that think is probably the first place that most of your average Christians today most of your average Christians today most of your average Christians today are going to turn in the Bible. Um, this are going to turn in the Bible. Um, this are going to turn in the Bible. Um, this could also apply, Bobby, to your own could also apply, Bobby, to your own could also apply, Bobby, to your own book. Why would I want to read a book book. Why would I want to read a book book. Why would I want to read a book that disqus that disqus that disqus more than quiets? I think most of us are more than quiets? I think most of us are more than quiets? I think most of us are looking for relief, not to be disturbed. looking for relief, not to be disturbed. looking for relief, not to be disturbed. And I think a lot of us feel like, nah, And I think a lot of us feel like, nah, And I think a lot of us feel like, nah, the world's got plenty of disturbance.

the world's got plenty of disturbance. the world's got plenty of disturbance. Not looking for more of it. Not looking for more of it. Not looking for more of it. >> Yeah, sure. So it does it it it does >> Yeah, sure. So it does it it it does >> Yeah, sure. So it does it it it does require something a little bit of require something a little bit of require something a little bit of willingness to slog through some hard willingness to slog through some hard willingness to slog through some hard territory. But I would say the first the territory. But I would say the first the territory. But I would say the first the the first kind of a pitch I would give the first kind of a pitch I would give the first kind of a pitch I would give for a book on happiness that actually for a book on happiness that actually for a book on happiness that actually kind of starts off with everything kind of starts off with everything kind of starts off with everything that's making you unhappy and where that's making you unhappy and where that's making you unhappy and where you're not going to find happiness is you're not going to find happiness is you're not going to find happiness is you only have to live a little bit to you only have to live a little bit to you only have to live a little bit to encounter some serious disappointments, encounter some serious disappointments, encounter some serious disappointments, some serious setbacks, some serious, you some serious setbacks, some serious, you some serious setbacks, some serious, you know, bridges you tried to walk across know, bridges you tried to walk across know, bridges you tried to walk across that collapsed and that you wound up, that collapsed and that you wound up, that collapsed and that you wound up, you know, metaphorically kind of flowing you know, metaphorically kind of flowing you know, metaphorically kind of flowing down an icy river rather than safe safe down an icy river rather than safe safe down an icy river rather than safe safe on the other side. and um to simply hear on the other side. and um to simply hear on the other side. and um to simply hear in God's word the kind of clear blunt in God's word the kind of clear blunt in God's word the kind of clear blunt statement of this won't satisfy and statement of this won't satisfy and statement of this won't satisfy and here's why this is the wrong place to here's why this is the wrong place to here's why this is the wrong place to look and here's why there is a kind of look and here's why there is a kind of look and here's why there is a kind of refreshing cleansing kind of zooming refreshing cleansing kind of zooming refreshing cleansing kind of zooming back you know the kind of things we so back you know the kind of things we so back you know the kind of things we so often have our heart sunk into the often have our heart sunk into the often have our heart sunk into the things we're chasing day by day there is things we're chasing day by day there is things we're chasing day by day there is there is almost like a like a polar there is almost like a like a polar there is almost like a like a polar plunge ice bath type like good for your plunge ice bath type like good for your plunge ice bath type like good for your spiritual health to plunge into these spiritual health to plunge into these spiritual health to plunge into these chilly waters and kind of wake up from chilly waters and kind of wake up from chilly waters and kind of wake up from maybe some of these dreams you're maybe some of these dreams you're maybe some of these dreams you're chasing or unquestioned ambitions or chasing or unquestioned ambitions or chasing or unquestioned ambitions or things that you can easily get too things that you can easily get too things that you can easily get too wrapped up in. So that that's my first wrapped up in. So that that's my first wrapped up in. So that that's my first pitch is that actually the bad news in pitch is that actually the bad news in pitch is that actually the bad news in and of itself is actually good for you.

and of itself is actually good for you. and of itself is actually good for you. And if you can sit still long enough in And if you can sit still long enough in And if you can sit still long enough in that ice bath, there are some surprising that ice bath, there are some surprising that ice bath, there are some surprising health benefits and you feel good health benefits and you feel good health benefits and you feel good afterward. afterward. afterward. >> Yeah, I like that. Well, tell us a >> Yeah, I like that. Well, tell us a >> Yeah, I like that. Well, tell us a little bit more about this he is maybe little bit more about this he is maybe little bit more about this he is maybe the most important Hebrew word in this the most important Hebrew word in this the most important Hebrew word in this book. book. book. Yeah, that's right. It shows up in the Yeah, that's right. It shows up in the Yeah, that's right. It shows up in the the book's kind of opening trumpet the book's kind of opening trumpet the book's kind of opening trumpet blast, its opening thesis. Classically blast, its opening thesis. Classically blast, its opening thesis. Classically translated, you know, vanity of translated, you know, vanity of translated, you know, vanity of vanities, says the preacher, all is vanities, says the preacher, all is vanities, says the preacher, all is vanity. It's a hard word to translate. vanity. It's a hard word to translate. vanity. It's a hard word to translate. You could also translate it as futile or You could also translate it as futile or You could also translate it as futile or meaningless or or vapor. So, it's it's meaningless or or vapor. So, it's it's meaningless or or vapor. So, it's it's literal kind of sense is is breath or literal kind of sense is is breath or literal kind of sense is is breath or vapor. And then, of course, words often vapor. And then, of course, words often vapor. And then, of course, words often have a sort of literal meaning from have a sort of literal meaning from have a sort of literal meaning from everyday life and then take on a kind of everyday life and then take on a kind of everyday life and then take on a kind of metaphorical or symbolic meaning. So, metaphorical or symbolic meaning. So, metaphorical or symbolic meaning. So, breath or vapor. Well, what happens? You breath or vapor. Well, what happens? You breath or vapor. Well, what happens? You breathe it out, it disappears. You take breathe it out, it disappears. You take breathe it out, it disappears. You take out a breath, you expel a breath, you out a breath, you expel a breath, you out a breath, you expel a breath, you need to take in another one. It's always need to take in another one. It's always need to take in another one. It's always coming and going. It never lasts. And coming and going. It never lasts. And coming and going. It never lasts. And so, he even elsewhere in the Old so, he even elsewhere in the Old so, he even elsewhere in the Old Testament, can can come to take on the Testament, can can come to take on the Testament, can can come to take on the meaning of something that promises meaning of something that promises meaning of something that promises something but doesn't follow through.

something but doesn't follow through. something but doesn't follow through. Um, charm is deceitful and beauty is he, Um, charm is deceitful and beauty is he, Um, charm is deceitful and beauty is he, beauty is vain. It doesn't live up to beauty is vain. It doesn't live up to beauty is vain. It doesn't live up to what it promises. Uh, there's also often what it promises. Uh, there's also often what it promises. Uh, there's also often a sense of fleeting. You know, this this a sense of fleeting. You know, this this a sense of fleeting. You know, this this doesn't last. It just disappears. But I doesn't last. It just disappears. But I doesn't last. It just disappears. But I I take it that that part of what I take it that that part of what I take it that that part of what Cohellet is doing is he's working with Cohellet is doing is he's working with Cohellet is doing is he's working with those nuances. He's working with those those nuances. He's working with those those nuances. He's working with those different elements, but he's actually different elements, but he's actually different elements, but he's actually kind of pressing the word into a kind of pressing the word into a kind of pressing the word into a specific mold to serve as kind of a key specific mold to serve as kind of a key specific mold to serve as kind of a key term for his key idea, which I actually term for his key idea, which I actually term for his key idea, which I actually think in modern terms is is best think in modern terms is is best think in modern terms is is best understood as absurd. understood as absurd. understood as absurd. >> And not absurd in the sense of like a >> And not absurd in the sense of like a >> And not absurd in the sense of like a physical comedy or like, you know, physical comedy or like, you know, physical comedy or like, you know, something outrageous. Not absurd like something outrageous. Not absurd like something outrageous. Not absurd like something obviously false, but absurd in something obviously false, but absurd in something obviously false, but absurd in the very specific sense of something the very specific sense of something the very specific sense of something that fails to meet expectations, that fails to meet expectations, that fails to meet expectations, >> something that fails to work rightly, >> something that fails to work rightly, >> something that fails to work rightly, something where you have this longing, something where you have this longing, something where you have this longing, this desire, this hope, and the opposite this desire, this hope, and the opposite this desire, this hope, and the opposite happens. And there's a number of happens. And there's a number of happens. And there's a number of different sort of avenues. Cohellet different sort of avenues. Cohellet different sort of avenues. Cohellet often sort of observes a scenario. he often sort of observes a scenario. he often sort of observes a scenario. he sees something taking place in life, sees something taking place in life, sees something taking place in life, whether this person getting this whether this person getting this whether this person getting this sentence in a courtroom or this person sentence in a courtroom or this person sentence in a courtroom or this person chasing wealth and here's what happened chasing wealth and here's what happened chasing wealth and here's what happened to them or this person, you know, to them or this person, you know, to them or this person, you know, rescues a city and becomes king and then rescues a city and becomes king and then rescues a city and becomes king and then everybody forgets about him. And he everybody forgets about him. And he everybody forgets about him. And he pronounces these whole states of affairs pronounces these whole states of affairs pronounces these whole states of affairs as he absurd. So he's noticing, wait a as he absurd. So he's noticing, wait a as he absurd. So he's noticing, wait a minute, this thing that should be minute, this thing that should be minute, this thing that should be doesn't actually happen. This thing that doesn't actually happen. This thing that doesn't actually happen. This thing that you want, you don't actually get it.

you want, you don't actually get it. you want, you don't actually get it. This good thing that you chase, aha, and This good thing that you chase, aha, and This good thing that you chase, aha, and I've seized it and now I can enjoy it. I've seized it and now I can enjoy it. I've seized it and now I can enjoy it. Then it disappears. And his word for all Then it disappears. And his word for all Then it disappears. And his word for all of that is absurd, he which resonates of that is absurd, he which resonates of that is absurd, he which resonates with at least some kind of mid 20th with at least some kind of mid 20th with at least some kind of mid 20th century philosophers in a more century philosophers in a more century philosophers in a more existentialist mold. I think it's I existentialist mold. I think it's I existentialist mold. I think it's I think it's a kind of a providential think it's a kind of a providential think it's a kind of a providential coincidence. I don't think they were coincidence. I don't think they were coincidence. I don't think they were reading Ecclesiastes. I think they're reading Ecclesiastes. I think they're reading Ecclesiastes. I think they're just seeing the same thing in life that just seeing the same thing in life that just seeing the same thing in life that he is. he is. he is. Did you find in your research any Did you find in your research any Did you find in your research any Christian engagement from that Christian engagement from that Christian engagement from that mid-century period especially when Camu mid-century period especially when Camu mid-century period especially when Camu was so popular talking about absurdity was so popular talking about absurdity was so popular talking about absurdity that was incorporating ecclesiast? that was incorporating ecclesiast? that was incorporating ecclesiast? >> That's a great question. Um >> That's a great question. Um >> That's a great question. Um what's his name? Robert Short who did what's his name? Robert Short who did what's his name? Robert Short who did the gospel according to peanuts. He also the gospel according to peanuts. He also the gospel according to peanuts. He also did a photo essay called a time a time did a photo essay called a time a time did a photo essay called a time a time to be born and a time to die. He did a to be born and a time to die. He did a to be born and a time to die. He did a photo essay on Ecclesiastes where it's photo essay on Ecclesiastes where it's photo essay on Ecclesiastes where it's kind of like a picture for every verse kind of like a picture for every verse kind of like a picture for every verse >> and it's this kind of Vietnam era black >> and it's this kind of Vietnam era black >> and it's this kind of Vietnam era black and white and and he wrote this like and white and and he wrote this like and white and and he wrote this like existential kind of essay to go with it existential kind of essay to go with it existential kind of essay to go with it and he I don't remember if he directly and he I don't remember if he directly and he I don't remember if he directly engages with Kimu but that would be one engages with Kimu but that would be one engages with Kimu but that would be one more popular kind of se 1970s he's at more popular kind of se 1970s he's at more popular kind of se 1970s he's at least engaging deeply with those themes least engaging deeply with those themes least engaging deeply with those themes and I read it early on and when I was and I read it early on and when I was and I read it early on and when I was prepping the preaching series one prepping the preaching series one prepping the preaching series one commentary I was reading kind of cited I commentary I was reading kind of cited I commentary I was reading kind of cited I was like that's interesting and so he was like that's interesting and so he was like that's interesting and so he does engage some of those themes I does engage some of those themes I does engage some of those themes I remember anybody else from kind of remember anybody else from kind of remember anybody else from kind of mid-century. There's there's more mid-century. There's there's more mid-century. There's there's more recent, you know, scholarly treatments recent, you know, scholarly treatments recent, you know, scholarly treatments that look at the absurd and all that that look at the absurd and all that that look at the absurd and all that sort of thing.

sort of thing. sort of thing. >> Yeah. Well, um, we're talking about >> Yeah. Well, um, we're talking about >> Yeah. Well, um, we're talking about preaching this book. This something you preaching this book. This something you preaching this book. This something you have experience with. It's what you do have experience with. It's what you do have experience with. It's what you do as your as your daily living and as your as your daily living and as your as your daily living and calling. Where do we find Jesus in calling. Where do we find Jesus in calling. Where do we find Jesus in Ecclesiastes? Ecclesiastes? Ecclesiastes? >> Yeah, that's such a good question. And I >> Yeah, that's such a good question. And I >> Yeah, that's such a good question. And I do think it's a legitimate question to do think it's a legitimate question to do think it's a legitimate question to bring to Ecclesiastes. I think I think bring to Ecclesiastes. I think I think bring to Ecclesiastes. I think I think if you start from seeing Ecclesiastes as if you start from seeing Ecclesiastes as if you start from seeing Ecclesiastes as maybe the most sort of existentially maybe the most sort of existentially maybe the most sort of existentially profound reflections on life in light of profound reflections on life in light of profound reflections on life in light of the goodness of creation and life in the goodness of creation and life in the goodness of creation and life in light of the badness of the fall kind of light of the badness of the fall kind of light of the badness of the fall kind of Genesis 1:2 is still relevant and Genesis 1:2 is still relevant and Genesis 1:2 is still relevant and Genesis 3 and 4 covers colors all of our Genesis 3 and 4 covers colors all of our Genesis 3 and 4 covers colors all of our experience. Ecclesiastes has some of the experience. Ecclesiastes has some of the experience. Ecclesiastes has some of the most profound poant kind of longings and most profound poant kind of longings and most profound poant kind of longings and reflections and unanswered questions. reflections and unanswered questions. reflections and unanswered questions. There's all these questions who can you There's all these questions who can you There's all these questions who can you know tell us what will take place after know tell us what will take place after know tell us what will take place after us or who knows what's going to happen us or who knows what's going to happen us or who knows what's going to happen or who um even in uh where is it chapter or who um even in uh where is it chapter or who um even in uh where is it chapter or okay so sometimes there's questions or okay so sometimes there's questions or okay so sometimes there's questions and sometimes there's even negations and sometimes there's even negations and sometimes there's even negations like in chapter 8:8 no man has power to like in chapter 8:8 no man has power to like in chapter 8:8 no man has power to retain the spirits or power over the day retain the spirits or power over the day retain the spirits or power over the day of death of death of death >> so nobody can now of course speaking on >> so nobody can now of course speaking on >> so nobody can now of course speaking on the purely human plane what's what's the purely human plane what's what's the purely human plane what's what's Cohel do doing He's he's reflecting on Cohel do doing He's he's reflecting on Cohel do doing He's he's reflecting on just the brute hard limits of the fall.

just the brute hard limits of the fall. just the brute hard limits of the fall. You can't escape death. You can't rescue You can't escape death. You can't rescue You can't escape death. You can't rescue somebody from death. When that time somebody from death. When that time somebody from death. When that time comes, there's nothing you can do about comes, there's nothing you can do about comes, there's nothing you can do about it. But that's a kind of photo negative it. But that's a kind of photo negative it. But that's a kind of photo negative where Jesus is the reverse side. Jesus where Jesus is the reverse side. Jesus where Jesus is the reverse side. Jesus says, "I lay my life down of my own says, "I lay my life down of my own says, "I lay my life down of my own accord. No one takes it from me. I lay accord. No one takes it from me. I lay accord. No one takes it from me. I lay it down willingly. This charge I've it down willingly. This charge I've it down willingly. This charge I've received from my father. I have received from my father. I have received from my father. I have authority to lay it down." It's even authority to lay it down." It's even authority to lay it down." It's even interesting there in the word Cohellet interesting there in the word Cohellet interesting there in the word Cohellet is using has the flavor of kind of like is using has the flavor of kind of like is using has the flavor of kind of like authority or proprietorship. You're not authority or proprietorship. You're not authority or proprietorship. You're not the owner of your life. When death comes the owner of your life. When death comes the owner of your life. When death comes knocking, death gets to say, "Yep, see knocking, death gets to say, "Yep, see knocking, death gets to say, "Yep, see youa. I take your life away." Jesus has youa. I take your life away." Jesus has youa. I take your life away." Jesus has authority over his own life. He he authority over his own life. He he authority over his own life. He he enters into the limits, the trials, the enters into the limits, the trials, the enters into the limits, the trials, the hardships, the struggles of human life hardships, the struggles of human life hardships, the struggles of human life in this fallen world. But at the same in this fallen world. But at the same in this fallen world. But at the same time, he also exists beyond those time, he also exists beyond those time, he also exists beyond those limits. So Jesus as it were lives a life limits. So Jesus as it were lives a life limits. So Jesus as it were lives a life truly under the sun, subject to all of truly under the sun, subject to all of truly under the sun, subject to all of its futility, frustration, absurdity. its futility, frustration, absurdity. its futility, frustration, absurdity. But he also exists beyond the sun. But he also exists beyond the sun. But he also exists beyond the sun. brings a power from beyond the sun and brings a power from beyond the sun and brings a power from beyond the sun and is the only one who can deliver us from is the only one who can deliver us from is the only one who can deliver us from the futility, the absurdity, the the futility, the absurdity, the the futility, the absurdity, the fleetingness. So in a way, Ecclesiastes fleetingness. So in a way, Ecclesiastes fleetingness. So in a way, Ecclesiastes is kind of a photo negative as a whole is kind of a photo negative as a whole is kind of a photo negative as a whole for Jesus. Ecclesiastes is kind of a for Jesus. Ecclesiastes is kind of a for Jesus. Ecclesiastes is kind of a question that for the most part it question that for the most part it question that for the most part it doesn't actually answer, maybe just doesn't actually answer, maybe just doesn't actually answer, maybe just gives us little fleeting answers to gives us little fleeting answers to gives us little fleeting answers to that. Jesus is is the full answer to.

that. Jesus is is the full answer to. that. Jesus is is the full answer to. And even in that sense of absurdity, if And even in that sense of absurdity, if And even in that sense of absurdity, if absurd is the disconnect between what absurd is the disconnect between what absurd is the disconnect between what you deserve and what you get or what you you deserve and what you get or what you you deserve and what you get or what you desire and what you get, Jesus suffered desire and what you get, Jesus suffered desire and what you get, Jesus suffered the most uh the deepest absurdity, the the most uh the deepest absurdity, the the most uh the deepest absurdity, the most thorough absurdity and rescues us most thorough absurdity and rescues us most thorough absurdity and rescues us by his resurrection and the coming new by his resurrection and the coming new by his resurrection and the coming new creation into a world where that creation into a world where that creation into a world where that absurdity will be no more. Now this absurdity will be no more. Now this absurdity will be no more. Now this Bobby what you've written here is the Bobby what you've written here is the Bobby what you've written here is the best book I know for incorporating and best book I know for incorporating and best book I know for incorporating and engaging with two of my favorite current engaging with two of my favorite current engaging with two of my favorite current writers Bjong Cholhan and and Hartman writers Bjong Cholhan and and Hartman writers Bjong Cholhan and and Hartman Rosa sometimes in my role for the Keller Rosa sometimes in my role for the Keller Rosa sometimes in my role for the Keller Center. I think what what are the books Center. I think what what are the books Center. I think what what are the books and the authors Tim Keller would have and the authors Tim Keller would have and the authors Tim Keller would have been reading that a lot of us would have been reading that a lot of us would have been reading that a lot of us would have learned about from him that would make learned about from him that would make learned about from him that would make it into his books and preaching and it into his books and preaching and it into his books and preaching and those are two those are two those are two >> who really I've only learned about and >> who really I've only learned about and >> who really I've only learned about and and heard a lot more people discussed and heard a lot more people discussed and heard a lot more people discussed since Tim died just a couple of years since Tim died just a couple of years since Tim died just a couple of years ago. So again, you're you're ago. So again, you're you're ago. So again, you're you're incorporating their work right away here incorporating their work right away here incorporating their work right away here and I'm just wondering how did you come and I'm just wondering how did you come and I'm just wondering how did you come across their work and what makes their across their work and what makes their across their work and what makes their work so relevant to this project? Yeah, work so relevant to this project? Yeah, work so relevant to this project? Yeah, I'll speak to Rosa first. Um, I remember I'll speak to Rosa first. Um, I remember I'll speak to Rosa first. Um, I remember a little fragment of a quote that Alan a little fragment of a quote that Alan a little fragment of a quote that Alan Jacobs just posted on his blog that was Jacobs just posted on his blog that was Jacobs just posted on his blog that was kind of a summary of Rosa's thesis on kind of a summary of Rosa's thesis on kind of a summary of Rosa's thesis on social acceleration, which is basically social acceleration, which is basically social acceleration, which is basically >> that you could define kind of a preodern >> that you could define kind of a preodern >> that you could define kind of a preodern or non-modern society as one where or non-modern society as one where or non-modern society as one where there's relative stability for kind of there's relative stability for kind of there's relative stability for kind of time out of mind. You know, things are time out of mind. You know, things are time out of mind. You know, things are pretty much stay the same. uh a a hunter pretty much stay the same. uh a a hunter pretty much stay the same. uh a a hunter gathering lifestyle or a farming gathering lifestyle or a farming gathering lifestyle or a farming lifestyle. The way you relate to nature,

lifestyle. The way you relate to nature, lifestyle. The way you relate to nature, you know, things are kind of the same. A you know, things are kind of the same. A you know, things are kind of the same. A sort of early modernity, things are sort of early modernity, things are sort of early modernity, things are changing and turning over roughly on the changing and turning over roughly on the changing and turning over roughly on the timeline of say like a human generation. timeline of say like a human generation. timeline of say like a human generation. You know, there is change, there is You know, there is change, there is You know, there is change, there is upheaval, but things are changing at at upheaval, but things are changing at at upheaval, but things are changing at at a span of sort of decades. What what he a span of sort of decades. What what he a span of sort of decades. What what he then calls so social acceleration or the then calls so social acceleration or the then calls so social acceleration or the condition of late modernity is where condition of late modernity is where condition of late modernity is where things are the the pace of change is things are the the pace of change is things are the the pace of change is speeding up. Everything is changing sort speeding up. Everything is changing sort speeding up. Everything is changing sort of faster and faster, not just of faster and faster, not just of faster and faster, not just technologically, but social mores. Think technologically, but social mores. Think technologically, but social mores. Think about how quickly a a candidate or about how quickly a a candidate or about how quickly a a candidate or elected officer might evolve on a major elected officer might evolve on a major elected officer might evolve on a major position, you know, and you kind of position, you know, and you kind of position, you know, and you kind of forget that they ever used to have a forget that they ever used to have a forget that they ever used to have a different position a short number of different position a short number of different position a short number of years ago because the cultural goalposts years ago because the cultural goalposts years ago because the cultural goalposts have moved so quickly. So when I saw have moved so quickly. So when I saw have moved so quickly. So when I saw that kind of paragraph summary, I that kind of paragraph summary, I that kind of paragraph summary, I thought, "Wow, that is one of the most thought, "Wow, that is one of the most thought, "Wow, that is one of the most insightful one paragraph distillations insightful one paragraph distillations insightful one paragraph distillations of a kind of major analysis of of where of a kind of major analysis of of where of a kind of major analysis of of where we're living and how it's different from we're living and how it's different from we're living and how it's different from all of history that I've ever seen." all of history that I've ever seen." all of history that I've ever seen." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And um so it kind of got onto my two >> And um so it kind of got onto my two >> And um so it kind of got onto my two read list through Alan Jacobs. And then read list through Alan Jacobs. And then read list through Alan Jacobs. And then honestly uh I'm sort of complicit in the honestly uh I'm sort of complicit in the honestly uh I'm sort of complicit in the system here, but I'm pretty sure it was system here, but I'm pretty sure it was system here, but I'm pretty sure it was actually an Amazon algorithm shortly actually an Amazon algorithm shortly actually an Amazon algorithm shortly after Rose's book, The Uncontrollability after Rose's book, The Uncontrollability after Rose's book, The Uncontrollability of the World, came out. Okay, I'm pretty of the World, came out. Okay, I'm pretty of the World, came out. Okay, I'm pretty sure I was looking for more stuff to sure I was looking for more stuff to sure I was looking for more stuff to read on Ecclesiastes cuz I had finished read on Ecclesiastes cuz I had finished read on Ecclesiastes cuz I had finished preaching it. I wanted to write a book preaching it. I wanted to write a book preaching it. I wanted to write a book on it and I saw, wait a minute, on it and I saw, wait a minute, on it and I saw, wait a minute, uncontrollability of the world. Rosa, uncontrollability of the world. Rosa, uncontrollability of the world. Rosa, oh, I remember that quote. That was oh, I remember that quote. That was oh, I remember that quote. That was amazing. I've been meaning to read him.

amazing. I've been meaning to read him. amazing. I've been meaning to read him. This sounds like Ecclesiastes. Like This sounds like Ecclesiastes. Like This sounds like Ecclesiastes. Like striving after wind, all is vanity. striving after wind, all is vanity. striving after wind, all is vanity. Sounds like this dude Rosa wrote a book Sounds like this dude Rosa wrote a book Sounds like this dude Rosa wrote a book on Ecclesiast. And honestly, the on Ecclesiast. And honestly, the on Ecclesiast. And honestly, the uncontrollability book. I mean, it uncontrollability book. I mean, it uncontrollability book. I mean, it resonates with Ecclesiastes so much. And resonates with Ecclesiastes so much. And resonates with Ecclesiastes so much. And so, I wound up coming to him as a major so, I wound up coming to him as a major so, I wound up coming to him as a major dialogue partner. I read all of his dialogue partner. I read all of his dialogue partner. I read all of his almost all of his books, all the essays almost all of his books, all the essays almost all of his books, all the essays and articles and stuff I could get my and articles and stuff I could get my and articles and stuff I could get my hands on. You know, Bchul Han, uh, I'm hands on. You know, Bchul Han, uh, I'm hands on. You know, Bchul Han, uh, I'm not sure. He was a little bit more in not sure. He was a little bit more in not sure. He was a little bit more in the air. I was intrigued by his book. the air. I was intrigued by his book. the air. I was intrigued by his book. Maybe it's because I was looking for Maybe it's because I was looking for Maybe it's because I was looking for stuff on burnout. I honestly can't stuff on burnout. I honestly can't stuff on burnout. I honestly can't remember, but his his book on burnout remember, but his his book on burnout remember, but his his book on burnout was very influential for my writing this was very influential for my writing this was very influential for my writing this book. His book on the disappearance of book. His book on the disappearance of book. His book on the disappearance of ritual was also helpful. Thinking about ritual was also helpful. Thinking about ritual was also helpful. Thinking about how we inhabit time, there's a lot of how we inhabit time, there's a lot of how we inhabit time, there's a lot of that in there. So, those I honestly that in there. So, those I honestly that in there. So, those I honestly don't remember who turned me on to Bung don't remember who turned me on to Bung don't remember who turned me on to Bung Cholan. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of produces a Cholan. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of produces a Cholan. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of produces a uncontrollability of the world from Rosa uncontrollability of the world from Rosa uncontrollability of the world from Rosa is a shorter version of a lot of the is a shorter version of a lot of the is a shorter version of a lot of the other more popular version of a lot of other more popular version of a lot of other more popular version of a lot of the the bigger stuff. the the bigger stuff. the the bigger stuff. >> And then Jungchan produces a lot of >> And then Jungchan produces a lot of >> And then Jungchan produces a lot of shorter books shorter books shorter books >> on a variety of related subjects just >> on a variety of related subjects just >> on a variety of related subjects just for people who are watching and for people who are watching and for people who are watching and listening and want to jump in listening and want to jump in listening and want to jump in themselves. Um let's talk about money themselves. Um let's talk about money themselves. Um let's talk about money and wondering does it play the same role and wondering does it play the same role and wondering does it play the same role in our day as it did for Cohellets? And in our day as it did for Cohellets? And in our day as it did for Cohellets? And I'm wondering, this is Rosa talking I'm wondering, this is Rosa talking I'm wondering, this is Rosa talking about how money is a religion about how money is a religion about how money is a religion substitute, a master of contingency, and substitute, a master of contingency, and substitute, a master of contingency, and then Han talks about how money saves the then Han talks about how money saves the then Han talks about how money saves the ancients or it it saves us from our need ancients or it it saves us from our need ancients or it it saves us from our need for each other. So, I'm just wondering, for each other. So, I'm just wondering, for each other. So, I'm just wondering, is that the same back then? You know, is that the same back then? You know, is that the same back then? You know, it's a it's a good question. I do think

it's a it's a good question. I do think it's a it's a good question. I do think that at the very least Cohellet is that at the very least Cohellet is that at the very least Cohellet is living in a time and in a society where living in a time and in a society where living in a time and in a society where it is it is um sort of merkantileized to it is it is um sort of merkantileized to it is it is um sort of merkantileized to the extent that if you have a lot of the extent that if you have a lot of the extent that if you have a lot of money that money can get you a lot of money that money can get you a lot of money that money can get you a lot of stuff and so I think that the historical stuff and so I think that the historical stuff and so I think that the historical background of what he's living against background of what he's living against background of what he's living against has to be at least a somewhat has to be at least a somewhat has to be at least a somewhat commercialized urbanized society because commercialized urbanized society because commercialized urbanized society because the way he talks about the love of money the way he talks about the love of money the way he talks about the love of money and his kind of analysis of it he who and his kind of analysis of it he who and his kind of analysis of it he who loves money will never be satisfied with loves money will never be satisfied with loves money will never be satisfied with money implies that money can play a kind money implies that money can play a kind money implies that money can play a kind of central role in getting you the of central role in getting you the of central role in getting you the things you want. things you want. things you want. >> That people have money. >> That people have money. >> That people have money. >> Exactly. People are familiar with >> Exactly. People are familiar with >> Exactly. People are familiar with currencies, which is not always an currencies, which is not always an currencies, which is not always an agrarian environment agrarian environment agrarian environment >> and that there's and that it's connected >> and that there's and that it's connected >> and that there's and that it's connected to enough stuff that it's not just like to enough stuff that it's not just like to enough stuff that it's not just like a means of exchange if you go travel a means of exchange if you go travel a means of exchange if you go travel some long distance and you have you know some long distance and you have you know some long distance and you have you know you have some goods and you you know you you have some goods and you you know you you have some goods and you you know you can exchange this for that but that can exchange this for that but that can exchange this for that but that money plays actually more of a central money plays actually more of a central money plays actually more of a central role where the more you have of it the role where the more you have of it the role where the more you have of it the more it can do for you. So I think in in more it can do for you. So I think in in more it can do for you. So I think in in that sense there's at least a resonance that sense there's at least a resonance that sense there's at least a resonance between his economic circumstances and between his economic circumstances and between his economic circumstances and ours to some degree. I do think it's one ours to some degree. I do think it's one ours to some degree. I do think it's one of the ways though that if if of the ways though that if if of the ways though that if if Ecclesiastes sounds surprisingly modern Ecclesiastes sounds surprisingly modern Ecclesiastes sounds surprisingly modern like in this critique of the love of like in this critique of the love of like in this critique of the love of money I do think it's one of those ways money I do think it's one of those ways money I do think it's one of those ways that that trajectory has you know that that trajectory has you know that that trajectory has you know radicalized amplified we don't just have radicalized amplified we don't just have radicalized amplified we don't just have a mark as Michael Sandell puts it in his a mark as Michael Sandell puts it in his a mark as Michael Sandell puts it in his book what money can't buy. We don't just book what money can't buy. We don't just book what money can't buy. We don't just have a market economy we are a market have a market economy we are a market have a market economy we are a market society. You know, I talk to my kids society. You know, I talk to my kids society. You know, I talk to my kids about how, oh, we wish there weren't, about how, oh, we wish there weren't, about how, oh, we wish there weren't, you know, naming rights for stadiums so you know, naming rights for stadiums so you know, naming rights for stadiums so there could be a historic name, you there could be a historic name, you there could be a historic name, you know, still stuck to it, but they don't know, still stuck to it, but they don't know, still stuck to it, but they don't just sell the naming rights to the

just sell the naming rights to the just sell the naming rights to the stadium. It's like then then there's stadium. It's like then then there's stadium. It's like then then there's like the two or three other sponsors of like the two or three other sponsors of like the two or three other sponsors of every game and all this stuff and the every game and all this stuff and the every game and all this stuff and the field, you know, everything then you can field, you know, everything then you can field, you know, everything then you can sell the field as well. sell the field as well. sell the field as well. >> Ex. So in that sense it's kind of like a >> Ex. So in that sense it's kind of like a >> Ex. So in that sense it's kind of like a a pattern we can see in whatever early a pattern we can see in whatever early a pattern we can see in whatever early ancient Israelite sort of market economy ancient Israelite sort of market economy ancient Israelite sort of market economy that Ecclesiastes emerges from those that Ecclesiastes emerges from those that Ecclesiastes emerges from those trajectories are are extended and so but trajectories are are extended and so but trajectories are are extended and so but I think there's a continuity I think I think there's a continuity I think I think there's a continuity I think Cohellet would say absolutely you know Cohellet would say absolutely you know Cohellet would say absolutely you know money is a false god yeah you can look money is a false god yeah you can look money is a false god yeah you can look to it for refuge you can look to it for to it for refuge you can look to it for to it for refuge you can look to it for security you can look to it to obtain security you can look to it to obtain security you can look to it to obtain pleasure because you can turn money into pleasure because you can turn money into pleasure because you can turn money into all this other stuff whatever the all this other stuff whatever the all this other stuff whatever the desires of your hearts are it can sort desires of your hearts are it can sort desires of your hearts are it can sort of bring them into reach so for that of bring them into reach so for that of bring them into reach so for that that more modern point from from Rosa that more modern point from from Rosa that more modern point from from Rosa Master of Contingency or or Bjung Master of Contingency or or Bjung Master of Contingency or or Bjung Chuhan, it can sort of uh relieve you of Chuhan, it can sort of uh relieve you of Chuhan, it can sort of uh relieve you of depending upon other people. Yeah. depending upon other people. Yeah. depending upon other people. Yeah. >> You know, which Andy Crouch developed >> You know, which Andy Crouch developed >> You know, which Andy Crouch developed nicely in his book uh the life we're nicely in his book uh the life we're nicely in his book uh the life we're looking for. looking for. looking for. >> Um I think Ecclesiastes, especially >> Um I think Ecclesiastes, especially >> Um I think Ecclesiastes, especially chapters five and six, really resonates chapters five and six, really resonates chapters five and six, really resonates with that, particularly in how our with that, particularly in how our with that, particularly in how our desires for this worldly goods are desires for this worldly goods are desires for this worldly goods are insatiable. That's part of our insatiable. That's part of our insatiable. That's part of our fallenness. It's also part of our desire fallenness. It's also part of our desire fallenness. It's also part of our desire for an infinite God whether we for an infinite God whether we for an infinite God whether we acknowledge it or not. And money maps acknowledge it or not. And money maps acknowledge it or not. And money maps tightly onto that because money can tightly onto that because money can tightly onto that because money can become an object of insatiable desire.

become an object of insatiable desire. become an object of insatiable desire. Talking with Bobby Jameson about his Talking with Bobby Jameson about his Talking with Bobby Jameson about his book, Everything is Never Enough: book, Everything is Never Enough: book, Everything is Never Enough: Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Resilient Happiness. Again, you can Resilient Happiness. Again, you can Resilient Happiness. Again, you can already hear why. One of my favorite already hear why. One of my favorite already hear why. One of my favorite books of 2025. Uh Bobby, how did books of 2025. Uh Bobby, how did books of 2025. Uh Bobby, how did preaching and then writing about preaching and then writing about preaching and then writing about Ecclesiastes change your life? Ecclesiastes change your life? Ecclesiastes change your life? Yeah, it um it certainly exposed and Yeah, it um it certainly exposed and Yeah, it um it certainly exposed and continues to uh expose some ungodly continues to uh expose some ungodly continues to uh expose some ungodly ambition, some ungodly striving. Oh, a ambition, some ungodly striving. Oh, a ambition, some ungodly striving. Oh, a sense of kind of always wanting to do sense of kind of always wanting to do sense of kind of always wanting to do the next thing or get the next thing. If the next thing or get the next thing. If the next thing or get the next thing. If I would have thought, oh, I've got those I would have thought, oh, I've got those I would have thought, oh, I've got those kind of desires pretty well under kind of desires pretty well under kind of desires pretty well under control. I'm I'm aware of pridefully control. I'm I'm aware of pridefully control. I'm I'm aware of pridefully striving after this or that. You sit striving after this or that. You sit striving after this or that. You sit with Ecclesiastes and it just goes with Ecclesiastes and it just goes with Ecclesiastes and it just goes deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper >> layers. Yeah. And and I also think that >> layers. Yeah. And and I also think that >> layers. Yeah. And and I also think that the sense of receiving life as a gift, the sense of receiving life as a gift, the sense of receiving life as a gift, recognizing how much is outside of my recognizing how much is outside of my recognizing how much is outside of my control. Uh recognizing, you know, it's control. Uh recognizing, you know, it's control. Uh recognizing, you know, it's like the Calvin and Hobbs comic where I like the Calvin and Hobbs comic where I like the Calvin and Hobbs comic where I forget, you know, Calvin says to Hobbes, forget, you know, Calvin says to Hobbes, forget, you know, Calvin says to Hobbes, "If you could have anything, what would "If you could have anything, what would "If you could have anything, what would you want?" And Hobbs says, "A sandwich, you want?" And Hobbs says, "A sandwich, you want?" And Hobbs says, "A sandwich, you know, and and what about you?" And you know, and and what about you?" And you know, and and what about you?" And Calvin says, "Oh, I'd want to be supreme Calvin says, "Oh, I'd want to be supreme Calvin says, "Oh, I'd want to be supreme dictator of the universe and have people dictator of the universe and have people dictator of the universe and have people like command, you know." And then Hobbs like command, you know." And then Hobbs like command, you know." And then Hobbs later, he's eating a sandwich and he later, he's eating a sandwich and he later, he's eating a sandwich and he says, "Well, I got my wish, you know.

says, "Well, I got my wish, you know. says, "Well, I got my wish, you know. I think I think learning to receive what I think I think learning to receive what I think I think learning to receive what God has already given me, learning to God has already given me, learning to God has already given me, learning to receive the limits of the lot he's receive the limits of the lot he's receive the limits of the lot he's ordained for me as good for me, uh, are ordained for me as good for me, uh, are ordained for me as good for me, uh, are lessons I continue to learn. Kind of my lessons I continue to learn. Kind of my lessons I continue to learn. Kind of my ambition, butting up against hard ambition, butting up against hard ambition, butting up against hard realities and limits he's ordained. The realities and limits he's ordained. The realities and limits he's ordained. The kind of twofold, uh, don't strive for kind of twofold, uh, don't strive for kind of twofold, uh, don't strive for the wind and receive the goodness of the wind and receive the goodness of the wind and receive the goodness of what God's given you as a gift. Uh yeah what God's given you as a gift. Uh yeah what God's given you as a gift. Uh yeah that continues to to bear fruit in my that continues to to bear fruit in my that continues to to bear fruit in my life. life. life. >> Is there anything that changed like a >> Is there anything that changed like a >> Is there anything that changed like a specific practice or thought or specific practice or thought or specific practice or thought or intention or plan that changed as you intention or plan that changed as you intention or plan that changed as you were confronted by Ecclesiastes? You were confronted by Ecclesiastes? You were confronted by Ecclesiastes? You know, the chapter on time was deeply know, the chapter on time was deeply know, the chapter on time was deeply personal and these are even lessons I'm personal and these are even lessons I'm personal and these are even lessons I'm learning and working on right now and learning and working on right now and learning and working on right now and talking to my wife about and um but time talking to my wife about and um but time talking to my wife about and um but time we so often try to master time and it's we so often try to master time and it's we so often try to master time and it's like what what Lewis says in the Screw like what what Lewis says in the Screw like what what Lewis says in the Screw Tape letters, you know, at all costs you Tape letters, you know, at all costs you Tape letters, you know, at all costs you want to foster this illusion that that want to foster this illusion that that want to foster this illusion that that the subject is the master of his time the subject is the master of his time the subject is the master of his time that the time belongs to him that it's that the time belongs to him that it's that the time belongs to him that it's like a possession he can claim and say like a possession he can claim and say like a possession he can claim and say mine. Ecclesiastes has so much to say mine. Ecclesiastes has so much to say mine. Ecclesiastes has so much to say about how we are not in control of time.

about how we are not in control of time. about how we are not in control of time. times will happen to us that we do not times will happen to us that we do not times will happen to us that we do not want. Uh God is in control of them. And want. Uh God is in control of them. And want. Uh God is in control of them. And in this mortal life under conditions of in this mortal life under conditions of in this mortal life under conditions of the fall, bad will replace good, good the fall, bad will replace good, good the fall, bad will replace good, good will replace bad. There's a time for will replace bad. There's a time for will replace bad. There's a time for singing, a time for mourning, there's a singing, a time for mourning, there's a singing, a time for mourning, there's a time for war, there's a time for peace. time for war, there's a time for peace. time for war, there's a time for peace. And there's a kind of merrygoround And there's a kind of merrygoround And there's a kind of merrygoround quality to our lives that ultimately quality to our lives that ultimately quality to our lives that ultimately we're called to submit to and trust God we're called to submit to and trust God we're called to submit to and trust God in. And I think for me, uh, okay, here's in. And I think for me, uh, okay, here's in. And I think for me, uh, okay, here's one very concrete practice. It didn't so one very concrete practice. It didn't so one very concrete practice. It didn't so much come out of writing the book, but much come out of writing the book, but much come out of writing the book, but I'm working on it now. I think when I'm working on it now. I think when I'm working on it now. I think when there's a clear providential assignment there's a clear providential assignment there's a clear providential assignment or limit uh serve my family in this way, or limit uh serve my family in this way, or limit uh serve my family in this way, be with my kids, give give this to be with my kids, give give this to be with my kids, give give this to faithfully steward the lot God has given faithfully steward the lot God has given faithfully steward the lot God has given me rather than striving for something me rather than striving for something me rather than striving for something else. To not view it mentally as kind of else. To not view it mentally as kind of else. To not view it mentally as kind of oh there's a trade-off here and I could oh there's a trade-off here and I could oh there's a trade-off here and I could be doing X or it's competing with Y or be doing X or it's competing with Y or be doing X or it's competing with Y or it's co or it's costing me in sort of it's co or it's costing me in sort of it's co or it's costing me in sort of you know time management. it's costing you know time management. it's costing you know time management. it's costing me this this opportunity cost that I me this this opportunity cost that I me this this opportunity cost that I could just if this is the providential could just if this is the providential could just if this is the providential assignment it's just a thing I have to assignment it's just a thing I have to assignment it's just a thing I have to do and it's the thing I get to do and I do and it's the thing I get to do and I do and it's the thing I get to do and I should be joyful and cheerful in doing should be joyful and cheerful in doing should be joyful and cheerful in doing it and yeah there's a certain miserly it and yeah there's a certain miserly it and yeah there's a certain miserly mastery that's deep in my heart of the mastery that's deep in my heart of the mastery that's deep in my heart of the way I want to relate to time that I way I want to relate to time that I way I want to relate to time that I think Ecclesiastes shook loose and needs think Ecclesiastes shook loose and needs think Ecclesiastes shook loose and needs to keep shaking loose to keep shaking loose to keep shaking loose oh that's good oh that's good oh that's good um Bobby if knowledge if more knowledge um Bobby if knowledge if more knowledge um Bobby if knowledge if more knowledge means more sadness. Does that make us in means more sadness. Does that make us in means more sadness. Does that make us in the internet age the saddest people the internet age the saddest people the internet age the saddest people ever?

ever? ever? Well, I do think that kind of um Well, I do think that kind of um Well, I do think that kind of um immediate exposure to every possible immediate exposure to every possible immediate exposure to every possible tragedy, disaster, I do think as so many tragedy, disaster, I do think as so many tragedy, disaster, I do think as so many people have observed and increasingly so people have observed and increasingly so people have observed and increasingly so in the past, you know, decade that is in the past, you know, decade that is in the past, you know, decade that is hard to handle and we're sort of not hard to handle and we're sort of not hard to handle and we're sort of not really wired for that and it takes some really wired for that and it takes some really wired for that and it takes some work to kind of put up appropriate work to kind of put up appropriate work to kind of put up appropriate boundaries for the things you're going boundaries for the things you're going boundaries for the things you're going to let yourself be exposed to. So yeah, to let yourself be exposed to. So yeah, to let yourself be exposed to. So yeah, there in the internet age I do think there in the internet age I do think there in the internet age I do think there we can't experience the truth of there we can't experience the truth of there we can't experience the truth of what uh Cohellet says like um I'm what uh Cohellet says like um I'm what uh Cohellet says like um I'm looking at uh I'm looking at chapter 2 looking at uh I'm looking at chapter 2 looking at uh I'm looking at chapter 2 where he has a couple of sayings about where he has a couple of sayings about where he has a couple of sayings about this um he does say some positive things this um he does say some positive things this um he does say some positive things about knowledge but he asks like uh why about knowledge but he asks like uh why about knowledge but he asks like uh why what happens to the fool will happen to what happens to the fool will happen to what happens to the fool will happen to me also why then have I been so very me also why then have I been so very me also why then have I been so very wise in other words there's a whole lot wise in other words there's a whole lot wise in other words there's a whole lot of knowledge and even wisdom you could of knowledge and even wisdom you could of knowledge and even wisdom you could acrue that will not change anything. And acrue that will not change anything. And acrue that will not change anything. And so maybe the temptation to view so maybe the temptation to view so maybe the temptation to view knowledge as a kind of intrinsic good or knowledge as a kind of intrinsic good or knowledge as a kind of intrinsic good or commodity that's always good to commodity that's always good to commodity that's always good to stockpile. Yeah. That can especially stockpile. Yeah. That can especially stockpile. Yeah. That can especially tempt us in the internet age to then tempt us in the internet age to then tempt us in the internet age to then ask, well, what can I do about it? Um, ask, well, what can I do about it? Um, ask, well, what can I do about it? Um, and maybe it's not the wisest investment and maybe it's not the wisest investment and maybe it's not the wisest investment of my time, my attention, my energy to of my time, my attention, my energy to of my time, my attention, my energy to learn a whole lot about a whole lot of learn a whole lot about a whole lot of learn a whole lot about a whole lot of stuff, especially with a lot of bad stuff, especially with a lot of bad stuff, especially with a lot of bad stuff that I really can't do anything stuff that I really can't do anything stuff that I really can't do anything about.

about. about. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mentioned in my introduction, Bobby, I mentioned in my introduction, Bobby, I mentioned in my introduction, Bobby, the categorical imperative of late the categorical imperative of late the categorical imperative of late modernity, which you summarize this way, modernity, which you summarize this way, modernity, which you summarize this way, quote, always act in such a way that quote, always act in such a way that quote, always act in such a way that your share of the world is increased. your share of the world is increased. your share of the world is increased. And one things we talk about a lot at And one things we talk about a lot at And one things we talk about a lot at the Keller Center are these cultural the Keller Center are these cultural the Keller Center are these cultural narratives, the stories that guide how narratives, the stories that guide how narratives, the stories that guide how we live without us even often knowing uh we live without us even often knowing uh we live without us even often knowing uh that the guiding. And I think you talked that the guiding. And I think you talked that the guiding. And I think you talked earlier about a market economy or an earlier about a market economy or an earlier about a market economy or an explorer nation or a settler nation like explorer nation or a settler nation like explorer nation or a settler nation like we are in the United States. I think we are in the United States. I think we are in the United States. I think this is especially um relevant for us. this is especially um relevant for us. this is especially um relevant for us. Tell us a little bit more what you mean Tell us a little bit more what you mean Tell us a little bit more what you mean by this. And I said I think it feels by this. And I said I think it feels by this. And I said I think it feels like something we just assume in our day like something we just assume in our day like something we just assume in our day but it would have been foreign to but it would have been foreign to but it would have been foreign to virtually all previous generations. And virtually all previous generations. And virtually all previous generations. And I'm talking about in the grand scheme of I'm talking about in the grand scheme of I'm talking about in the grand scheme of history, age of exploration that changes history, age of exploration that changes history, age of exploration that changes a little bit. There's always been people a little bit. There's always been people a little bit. There's always been people pushing boundaries and things like that. pushing boundaries and things like that. pushing boundaries and things like that. >> But I think just this sense that we >> But I think just this sense that we >> But I think just this sense that we always need more.

always need more. always need more. I think that's that's us and it's not I think that's that's us and it's not I think that's that's us and it's not always been that way. always been that way. always been that way. >> Yeah, that's right. So, I'm borrowing >> Yeah, that's right. So, I'm borrowing >> Yeah, that's right. So, I'm borrowing that phrase and that concept from Rosa. that phrase and that concept from Rosa. that phrase and that concept from Rosa. And he's talking about how there there's And he's talking about how there there's And he's talking about how there there's these different ways you try to bring these different ways you try to bring these different ways you try to bring more of life under your grasp to make more of life under your grasp to make more of life under your grasp to make it, as he puts it, available, it, as he puts it, available, it, as he puts it, available, accessible, attainable. And that could accessible, attainable. And that could accessible, attainable. And that could be experiences, it could be traveling, be experiences, it could be traveling, be experiences, it could be traveling, it could be money and then the resources it could be money and then the resources it could be money and then the resources and the things money can get you. Um, it and the things money can get you. Um, it and the things money can get you. Um, it could also be in a in a more subtle or could also be in a in a more subtle or could also be in a in a more subtle or social sense in terms of your your social sense in terms of your your social sense in terms of your your influence, your range of connections, influence, your range of connections, influence, your range of connections, your relationships. That could always be your relationships. That could always be your relationships. That could always be extended. You could always have a bigger extended. You could always have a bigger extended. You could always have a bigger footprint. you can always make more of footprint. you can always make more of footprint. you can always make more of yourself yourself yourself uh kind of socially or in terms of your uh kind of socially or in terms of your uh kind of socially or in terms of your influence. Um yeah and I I think that influence. Um yeah and I I think that influence. Um yeah and I I think that and this is obviously sort of heightened and this is obviously sort of heightened and this is obviously sort of heightened and accelerated in the internet age. Um and accelerated in the internet age. Um and accelerated in the internet age. Um but it but it it creates uh in one sense but it but it it creates uh in one sense but it but it it creates uh in one sense both a fundamental burden and an both a fundamental burden and an both a fundamental burden and an entitlement. The burden is I always must entitlement. The burden is I always must entitlement. The burden is I always must be doing more and kind of maximizing and be doing more and kind of maximizing and be doing more and kind of maximizing and optimizing whether that's in terms of optimizing whether that's in terms of optimizing whether that's in terms of work or money whether that's in terms of work or money whether that's in terms of work or money whether that's in terms of relationships. So there's a burden relationships. So there's a burden relationships. So there's a burden there. you have to make something of there. you have to make something of there. you have to make something of yourself. Uh there's also can be kind of yourself. Uh there's also can be kind of yourself. Uh there's also can be kind of a sense of entitlement that that a sense of entitlement that that a sense of entitlement that that contrasts strongly with Cohellet's contrasts strongly with Cohellet's contrasts strongly with Cohellet's repeated uh use of this idea of a lot, a repeated uh use of this idea of a lot, a repeated uh use of this idea of a lot, a portion. You know, a portion is like a portion. You know, a portion is like a portion. You know, a portion is like a portion of food. This is all that you portion of food. This is all that you portion of food. This is all that you get served or a lot. It can also mean in get served or a lot. It can also mean in get served or a lot. It can also mean in the ancient Israelite context, you know, the ancient Israelite context, you know, the ancient Israelite context, you know, the inheritance of land that you or your the inheritance of land that you or your the inheritance of land that you or your family would be given. And well, this family would be given. And well, this family would be given. And well, this many acres is only going to produce this many acres is only going to produce this many acres is only going to produce this much. You want to steward it well and much. You want to steward it well and much. You want to steward it well and help it to produce in a sustainable way.

help it to produce in a sustainable way. help it to produce in a sustainable way. But if this is all the land you have, But if this is all the land you have, But if this is all the land you have, it's all the land you have. And that it's all the land you have. And that it's all the land you have. And that that's almost a that's almost a concept that's almost a that's almost a concept that's almost a that's almost a concept that's just foreign in our society where that's just foreign in our society where that's just foreign in our society where you would just kind of run roughshot. you would just kind of run roughshot. you would just kind of run roughshot. Oh, it can always be expanded. You can Oh, it can always be expanded. You can Oh, it can always be expanded. You can always buy another field. You can always always buy another field. You can always always buy another field. You can always get bigger equipment. You can always get bigger equipment. You can always get bigger equipment. You can always >> can always get another sandwich. >> can always get another sandwich. >> can always get another sandwich. >> You can always get another sandwich. >> You can always get another sandwich. >> You can always get another sandwich. That's right, Hobs. Why? Why just one? That's right, Hobs. Why? Why just one? That's right, Hobs. Why? Why just one? >> Why just one? >> Why just one? >> Why just one? >> Um Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think it's >> Um Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think it's >> Um Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think it's a there's very sophisticated structures a there's very sophisticated structures a there's very sophisticated structures for attaining those things, for for attaining those things, for for attaining those things, for promoting those things, for pursuing promoting those things, for pursuing promoting those things, for pursuing them in a way that never turns off, for them in a way that never turns off, for them in a way that never turns off, for social media, feeding them back to you social media, feeding them back to you social media, feeding them back to you in a way where you could always, you in a way where you could always, you in a way where you could always, you know, want something more or something know, want something more or something know, want something more or something better. So there's a real discipline, as better. So there's a real discipline, as better. So there's a real discipline, as Cohellet puts it, to accepting your lot. Cohellet puts it, to accepting your lot. Cohellet puts it, to accepting your lot. It that's not just a sort of grateful It that's not just a sort of grateful It that's not just a sort of grateful act of of kind of receiving it and act of of kind of receiving it and act of of kind of receiving it and thanking God for it. I think there's thanking God for it. I think there's thanking God for it. I think there's also a discipline of uh bringing your also a discipline of uh bringing your also a discipline of uh bringing your desires in tune with it and into line desires in tune with it and into line desires in tune with it and into line with it. That is that is inescapably with it. That is that is inescapably with it. That is that is inescapably individual. Somebody else's lot is not individual. Somebody else's lot is not individual. Somebody else's lot is not my lot. Somebody else's family is not my my lot. Somebody else's family is not my my lot. Somebody else's family is not my family. Somebody else's work is not my family. Somebody else's work is not my family. Somebody else's work is not my work. Um God has given it to him. That's work. Um God has given it to him. That's work. Um God has given it to him. That's what that's what uh 5:18 says. This is what that's what uh 5:18 says. This is what that's what uh 5:18 says. This is his lot. God has given us these days his lot. God has given us these days his lot. God has given us these days this work. And so it really stands in this work. And so it really stands in this work. And so it really stands in kind of direct opposition to that kind of direct opposition to that kind of direct opposition to that imperative to always be getting more or imperative to always be getting more or imperative to always be getting more or making more of yourself.

making more of yourself. making more of yourself. >> Is this the same thing Bobby as the >> Is this the same thing Bobby as the >> Is this the same thing Bobby as the problem of meritocracy? problem of meritocracy? problem of meritocracy? If you if everyone can be exceptional If you if everyone can be exceptional If you if everyone can be exceptional then everyone must be exceptional. How then everyone must be exceptional. How then everyone must be exceptional. How does Ecclesia does does Cohellet tackle does Ecclesia does does Cohellet tackle does Ecclesia does does Cohellet tackle the problem the same way of what you the problem the same way of what you the problem the same way of what you just described? just described? just described? >> Ah that's I I do think it's relevant to >> Ah that's I I do think it's relevant to >> Ah that's I I do think it's relevant to that kind of critique of meritocracy. that kind of critique of meritocracy. that kind of critique of meritocracy. Allah Michael Sandell, Allah Michael Sandell, Allah Michael Sandell, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Um, you know, I think Cohellet he in in >> Um, you know, I think Cohellet he in in >> Um, you know, I think Cohellet he in in living his kind of rise to the top. He living his kind of rise to the top. He living his kind of rise to the top. He particularly highlights it in chapter particularly highlights it in chapter particularly highlights it in chapter two and he highlights a couple of things two and he highlights a couple of things two and he highlights a couple of things both in his first person experience and both in his first person experience and both in his first person experience and some of his observations in chapter 4. some of his observations in chapter 4. some of his observations in chapter 4. Um, you can work yourself into a kind of Um, you can work yourself into a kind of Um, you can work yourself into a kind of anxious stuper, you know, sleepless anxious stuper, you know, sleepless anxious stuper, you know, sleepless nights, uh, being unable to sort of nights, uh, being unable to sort of nights, uh, being unable to sort of stop, unable to to sort of detach from stop, unable to to sort of detach from stop, unable to to sort of detach from your work. He he talked about that, you your work. He he talked about that, you your work. He he talked about that, you know, he talks about giving himself up know, he talks about giving himself up know, he talks about giving himself up to his to despair because like 2:23 all to his to despair because like 2:23 all to his to despair because like 2:23 all his days are full of sorrow and his work his days are full of sorrow and his work his days are full of sorrow and his work is a vexation even in the night his is a vexation even in the night his is a vexation even in the night his heart does not rest. This also is heart does not rest. This also is heart does not rest. This also is absurd. So I think I think Cohellet absurd. So I think I think Cohellet absurd. So I think I think Cohellet pinpoints the inward liabilities of a pinpoints the inward liabilities of a pinpoints the inward liabilities of a work fixation that you know a number of work fixation that you know a number of work fixation that you know a number of scholars have observed he kind of scholars have observed he kind of scholars have observed he kind of diagnosed the workaholic you know two diagnosed the workaholic you know two diagnosed the workaholic you know two and a half millennia in advance or or and a half millennia in advance or or and a half millennia in advance or or whatever it is you know chapter 4 verse whatever it is you know chapter 4 verse whatever it is you know chapter 4 verse 7 there's somebody who has nobody else 7 there's somebody who has nobody else 7 there's somebody who has nobody else to work for no sibling no heir no family to work for no sibling no heir no family to work for no sibling no heir no family but they never stop and they never stop but they never stop and they never stop but they never stop and they never stop being enough to ask why and so I think being enough to ask why and so I think being enough to ask why and so I think yeah in that sense a a meritocracy yeah in that sense a a meritocracy yeah in that sense a a meritocracy if you if you view the world around you

if you if you view the world around you if you if you view the world around you particularly as a kind of like a pure particularly as a kind of like a pure particularly as a kind of like a pure meritocracy, you only have yourself to meritocracy, you only have yourself to meritocracy, you only have yourself to blame. You know, hard work gets ahead, blame. You know, hard work gets ahead, blame. You know, hard work gets ahead, fair play, uh, you know, make the most fair play, uh, you know, make the most fair play, uh, you know, make the most of the opportunities given to you, of the opportunities given to you, of the opportunities given to you, you'll rise to the top. So, not only do you'll rise to the top. So, not only do you'll rise to the top. So, not only do you have to sort of be always working, you have to sort of be always working, you have to sort of be always working, but you only have yourself to blame if but you only have yourself to blame if but you only have yourself to blame if it if it doesn't work out. I think those it if it doesn't work out. I think those it if it doesn't work out. I think those inward pitfalls of work being a kind of inward pitfalls of work being a kind of inward pitfalls of work being a kind of treadmill that your your mind and heart treadmill that your your mind and heart treadmill that your your mind and heart and in a sense body can never get off and in a sense body can never get off and in a sense body can never get off of, I think Ecclesiastes totally spots of, I think Ecclesiastes totally spots of, I think Ecclesiastes totally spots those, you know, millennia in advance. those, you know, millennia in advance. those, you know, millennia in advance. >> No. combine that through >> No. combine that through >> No. combine that through oh expressive individualism. You can be oh expressive individualism. You can be oh expressive individualism. You can be anything you want to be, anything you anything you want to be, anything you anything you want to be, anything you set your mind to, which is then if you set your mind to, which is then if you set your mind to, which is then if you set your mind to being a professional set your mind to being a professional set your mind to being a professional athlete and you fail, you have no one to athlete and you fail, you have no one to athlete and you fail, you have no one to blame because you didn't believe. blame because you didn't believe. blame because you didn't believe. >> Yeah. and and that expressive >> Yeah. and and that expressive >> Yeah. and and that expressive individualism saying kind of this is who individualism saying kind of this is who individualism saying kind of this is who I'm created to be or sort of this is my I'm created to be or sort of this is my I'm created to be or sort of this is my deepest self uh makes it even more of a deepest self uh makes it even more of a deepest self uh makes it even more of a personal kind of attack on your worth an personal kind of attack on your worth an personal kind of attack on your worth an attack on your value you know attack on your value you know attack on your value you know Ecclesiastes doesn't address this Ecclesiastes doesn't address this Ecclesiastes doesn't address this question directly but but there has to question directly but but there has to question directly but but there has to be like if if you're if you're aiming at be like if if you're if you're aiming at be like if if you're if you're aiming at that type of uh elite endeavor at any that type of uh elite endeavor at any that type of uh elite endeavor at any level you know there there has to be level you know there there has to be level you know there there has to be some way in which you can you can some way in which you can you can some way in which you can you can distinguish striving for excellence from distinguish striving for excellence from distinguish striving for excellence from striving for superiority um even in a striving for superiority um even in a striving for superiority um even in a competitive endeavor like like sports, competitive endeavor like like sports, competitive endeavor like like sports, you know, there's a winner, there's a you know, there's a winner, there's a you know, there's a winner, there's a loser, somebody comes first, there has loser, somebody comes first, there has loser, somebody comes first, there has to be a sense of, you know, even even as to be a sense of, you know, even even as to be a sense of, you know, even even as important as winning is, to use the important as winning is, to use the important as winning is, to use the cliche, you know, winning can't be cliche, you know, winning can't be cliche, you know, winning can't be everything. Um, I think I think everything. Um, I think I think everything. Um, I think I think Ecclesiastes would Yeah, in a sense,

Ecclesiastes would Yeah, in a sense, Ecclesiastes would Yeah, in a sense, Ecclesiastes is a very anti-expressive Ecclesiastes is a very anti-expressive Ecclesiastes is a very anti-expressive individualist book. individualist book. individualist book. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, I think that's why it's timely for our I think that's why it's timely for our I think that's why it's timely for our day. day. day. >> Who who you are is fundamentally given, >> Who who you are is fundamentally given, >> Who who you are is fundamentally given, not fundamentally achieved. not fundamentally achieved. not fundamentally achieved. You know, you have to start with the You know, you have to start with the You know, you have to start with the giveness of life itself. The giveness of giveness of life itself. The giveness of giveness of life itself. The giveness of every good thing in your life. Kind of every good thing in your life. Kind of every good thing in your life. Kind of wake up, look around. God has given you wake up, look around. God has given you wake up, look around. God has given you so much. Uh what God has given you is so much. Uh what God has given you is so much. Uh what God has given you is always more fundamental, more important. always more fundamental, more important. always more fundamental, more important. It's a bigger deal than anything you It's a bigger deal than anything you It's a bigger deal than anything you make of it. You're required to be a make of it. You're required to be a make of it. You're required to be a faithful steward. Uh but you didn't make faithful steward. Uh but you didn't make faithful steward. Uh but you didn't make it in the first place. He's the one, as it in the first place. He's the one, as it in the first place. He's the one, as it were, who cooked the meal. He's the it were, who cooked the meal. He's the it were, who cooked the meal. He's the one who aortioned it out to you. Uh your one who aortioned it out to you. Uh your one who aortioned it out to you. Uh your job is to eat and enjoy. job is to eat and enjoy. job is to eat and enjoy. >> Yeah. The expressive individualist is >> Yeah. The expressive individualist is >> Yeah. The expressive individualist is more rousoian with the sense that I've more rousoian with the sense that I've more rousoian with the sense that I've been born into this world with an inward been born into this world with an inward been born into this world with an inward desires that are always constrained by desires that are always constrained by desires that are always constrained by people on the outside and institutions people on the outside and institutions people on the outside and institutions and authorities. And my whole goal in and authorities. And my whole goal in and authorities. And my whole goal in life is to break free from those. And I life is to break free from those. And I life is to break free from those. And I break free from those by certainly by break free from those by certainly by break free from those by certainly by protesting them, but mainly by looking protesting them, but mainly by looking protesting them, but mainly by looking inside myself for guidance of how to inside myself for guidance of how to inside myself for guidance of how to resist them and how to ignore those resist them and how to ignore those resist them and how to ignore those siren songs of tradition and religion siren songs of tradition and religion siren songs of tradition and religion and family and everything else. And and family and everything else. And and family and everything else. And Ecclesiastes comes back and says, "Life Ecclesiastes comes back and says, "Life Ecclesiastes comes back and says, "Life is a gift. All of life is grace." And is a gift. All of life is grace." And is a gift. All of life is grace." And your problem is that you're prone your problem is that you're prone your problem is that you're prone without the the guidance of the Lord to without the the guidance of the Lord to without the the guidance of the Lord to veer off a cliff.

veer off a cliff. veer off a cliff. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and at a kind of >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and at a kind of >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and at a kind of infinite velocity in the sense that infinite velocity in the sense that infinite velocity in the sense that Ecclesiastes keeps highlighting that our Ecclesiastes keeps highlighting that our Ecclesiastes keeps highlighting that our hearts are insatiable. You know, uh hearts are insatiable. You know, uh hearts are insatiable. You know, uh chapter 6:9, better is the sight of the chapter 6:9, better is the sight of the chapter 6:9, better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the appetite. eyes than the wandering of the appetite. eyes than the wandering of the appetite. You can even have something in front of You can even have something in front of You can even have something in front of you to enjoy, but then your appetite you to enjoy, but then your appetite you to enjoy, but then your appetite goes, well, what about something else? goes, well, what about something else? goes, well, what about something else? What about something different? What What about something different? What What about something different? What about something more? Or or uh chapter 6 about something more? Or or uh chapter 6 about something more? Or or uh chapter 6 vers7, all the toil of man is for his vers7, all the toil of man is for his vers7, all the toil of man is for his mouth, yet his appetite is not mouth, yet his appetite is not mouth, yet his appetite is not satisfied. I think Ecclesiastes is satisfied. I think Ecclesiastes is satisfied. I think Ecclesiastes is saying that as a kind of parable. You saying that as a kind of parable. You saying that as a kind of parable. You have to keep working to keep eating. But have to keep working to keep eating. But have to keep working to keep eating. But that's a sort of pointer to the deep that's a sort of pointer to the deep that's a sort of pointer to the deep structure of our souls where uh I think structure of our souls where uh I think structure of our souls where uh I think I think receiving a good gift from a I think receiving a good gift from a I think receiving a good gift from a good creator is a key part of that. good creator is a key part of that. good creator is a key part of that. That's a more prominent theme in That's a more prominent theme in That's a more prominent theme in Ecclesiastes. And ultimately kind of in Ecclesiastes. And ultimately kind of in Ecclesiastes. And ultimately kind of in light of chapter 3 11, he's put eternity light of chapter 3 11, he's put eternity light of chapter 3 11, he's put eternity into the heart of man. into the heart of man. into the heart of man. >> Uh ultimately being satisfied in God >> Uh ultimately being satisfied in God >> Uh ultimately being satisfied in God alone is the only kind of you know alone is the only kind of you know alone is the only kind of you know silver bullet, the only magic key. There silver bullet, the only magic key. There silver bullet, the only magic key. There is a way to be appropriately satisfied is a way to be appropriately satisfied is a way to be appropriately satisfied with the good gifts God gives you of with the good gifts God gives you of with the good gifts God gives you of food, family, work, enjoyment. There's food, family, work, enjoyment. There's food, family, work, enjoyment. There's an appropriate way to receive all those.

an appropriate way to receive all those. an appropriate way to receive all those. But ultimately, the kind of happiness But ultimately, the kind of happiness But ultimately, the kind of happiness you're on a treadmill seeking to get is you're on a treadmill seeking to get is you're on a treadmill seeking to get is found in God alone. Yeah. found in God alone. Yeah. found in God alone. Yeah. Bobby, if you could teach this message Bobby, if you could teach this message Bobby, if you could teach this message in any setting outside the church, where in any setting outside the church, where in any setting outside the church, where would it be? Well, I do think on college would it be? Well, I do think on college would it be? Well, I do think on college campuses today is an important one and campuses today is an important one and campuses today is an important one and I'm thankful I've got an opportunity to I'm thankful I've got an opportunity to I'm thankful I've got an opportunity to kind of go give a talk on this at the kind of go give a talk on this at the kind of go give a talk on this at the study center here um at UNC coming up in study center here um at UNC coming up in study center here um at UNC coming up in the fall on on November uh 10th. So, I the fall on on November uh 10th. So, I the fall on on November uh 10th. So, I do think university campuses are do think university campuses are do think university campuses are important. You know, I I'd have to tweak important. You know, I I'd have to tweak important. You know, I I'd have to tweak it a little bit, but if I um you know, it a little bit, but if I um you know, it a little bit, but if I um you know, if I got to get a bunch of whatever if I got to get a bunch of whatever if I got to get a bunch of whatever influential culture making Silicon influential culture making Silicon influential culture making Silicon Valley types in a room, the more Valley types in a room, the more Valley types in a room, the more transhumanist, you know, you can you can transhumanist, you know, you can you can transhumanist, you know, you can you can sort of math your way out of any sort of sort of math your way out of any sort of sort of math your way out of any sort of pitfall and optimize and reach back pitfall and optimize and reach back pitfall and optimize and reach back home. home. home. >> That's >> That's >> That's >> back home to California. If I could get >> back home to California. If I could get >> back home to California. If I could get a a bunch of, you know, uh big- time a a bunch of, you know, uh big- time a a bunch of, you know, uh big- time Silicon Valley CEOs, I'm not sure they Silicon Valley CEOs, I'm not sure they Silicon Valley CEOs, I'm not sure they would listen, you know. D but that that would listen, you know. D but that that would listen, you know. D but that that the sort of Silicon Valley protein and the sort of Silicon Valley protein and the sort of Silicon Valley protein and reshaping our humanity kind of ethos is reshaping our humanity kind of ethos is reshaping our humanity kind of ethos is is so anti-limit.

is so anti-limit. is so anti-limit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, not not not being limited by >> You know, not not not being limited by >> You know, not not not being limited by givens of human nature, not being givens of human nature, not being givens of human nature, not being limited by, you know, we've messed limited by, you know, we've messed limited by, you know, we've messed things up here on Earth. Oh, let's go to things up here on Earth. Oh, let's go to things up here on Earth. Oh, let's go to Mars, you know. Um, so I think the sort Mars, you know. Um, so I think the sort Mars, you know. Um, so I think the sort of ethos of limits, uh, and the ethos of ethos of limits, uh, and the ethos of ethos of limits, uh, and the ethos that flows from recognizing creation as that flows from recognizing creation as that flows from recognizing creation as a good gift is pretty antithetical to a good gift is pretty antithetical to a good gift is pretty antithetical to anything coming out of Silicon Valley, anything coming out of Silicon Valley, anything coming out of Silicon Valley, which just has such a such a I'm going which just has such a such a I'm going which just has such a such a I'm going to sound like a cranky old man here, but to sound like a cranky old man here, but to sound like a cranky old man here, but sound it has such an outsized influence sound it has such an outsized influence sound it has such an outsized influence on our culture compared to what it on our culture compared to what it on our culture compared to what it deserves for any type of intellectual deserves for any type of intellectual deserves for any type of intellectual substance. You know, you don't Yeah. substance. You know, you don't Yeah. substance. You know, you don't Yeah. Anyways, Anyways, Anyways, >> I'll get >> I'll get >> I'll get >> intellectual substance and simply uh >> intellectual substance and simply uh >> intellectual substance and simply uh received wisdom. Uh there there's a received wisdom. Uh there there's a received wisdom. Uh there there's a clear antagonism toward a received clear antagonism toward a received clear antagonism toward a received wisdom as if it's irrelevant or a wisdom as if it's irrelevant or a wisdom as if it's irrelevant or a hindrance to this transhumanist project. hindrance to this transhumanist project. hindrance to this transhumanist project. This neverending effort to try to escape This neverending effort to try to escape This neverending effort to try to escape limits and ultimately to escape the limits and ultimately to escape the limits and ultimately to escape the ultimate to escape the ultimate limit of ultimate to escape the ultimate limit of ultimate to escape the ultimate limit of all which is which is death. And then all which is which is death. And then all which is which is death. And then that swings you right back to that swings you right back to that swings you right back to Ecclesiastes again, which is that's the Ecclesiastes again, which is that's the Ecclesiastes again, which is that's the essence of pride.

essence of pride. essence of pride. >> And pride leads to your fall. >> And pride leads to your fall. >> And pride leads to your fall. >> And >> And >> And >> and you're pro you're probably seeing a >> and you're pro you're probably seeing a >> and you're pro you're probably seeing a more concentrated form of that more concentrated form of that more concentrated form of that particular hubris, you know, whether particular hubris, you know, whether particular hubris, you know, whether it's the trying to optimize your way out it's the trying to optimize your way out it's the trying to optimize your way out of death in particular. I mean, that's of death in particular. I mean, that's of death in particular. I mean, that's the most obvious one. the most obvious one. the most obvious one. >> Yeah. U practical question here to >> Yeah. U practical question here to >> Yeah. U practical question here to close, Bobby. How should a preacher close, Bobby. How should a preacher close, Bobby. How should a preacher approach Ecclesiastes in his church? approach Ecclesiastes in his church? approach Ecclesiastes in his church? >> Yeah, great question. Uh, a few tips. I >> Yeah, great question. Uh, a few tips. I >> Yeah, great question. Uh, a few tips. I think um think um think um I found it helpful to, you know, there's I found it helpful to, you know, there's I found it helpful to, you know, there's this delicate balance, right, where you this delicate balance, right, where you this delicate balance, right, where you want to preach the thrust of the text, want to preach the thrust of the text, want to preach the thrust of the text, you want to preach the weight of the you want to preach the weight of the you want to preach the weight of the text, you want to preach the tone of the text, you want to preach the tone of the text, you want to preach the tone of the text, and yet you want to leave your text, and yet you want to leave your text, and yet you want to leave your people with some hope. people with some hope. people with some hope. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and I think so that kind of photo >> And and I think so that kind of photo >> And and I think so that kind of photo negative approach. I I think I pray I negative approach. I I think I pray I negative approach. I I think I pray I hope I preached Christ and the kind of hope I preached Christ and the kind of hope I preached Christ and the kind of fullness of the gospel from every fullness of the gospel from every fullness of the gospel from every passage. Sometimes it's more of a photo passage. Sometimes it's more of a photo passage. Sometimes it's more of a photo negative of kind of where Ecclesiastes negative of kind of where Ecclesiastes negative of kind of where Ecclesiastes leaves us. What's the problem leaves us. What's the problem leaves us. What's the problem Ecclesiastes sharpens for us? Almost Ecclesiastes sharpens for us? Almost Ecclesiastes sharpens for us? Almost Ecclesiastes sort of driving us to Ecclesiastes sort of driving us to Ecclesiastes sort of driving us to despair so we cry out who can deliver us despair so we cry out who can deliver us despair so we cry out who can deliver us from this. So I do think letting the from this. So I do think letting the from this. So I do think letting the congregation kind of sit under that congregation kind of sit under that congregation kind of sit under that pressure as long as you and they can pressure as long as you and they can pressure as long as you and they can bear it is is is one important kind of bear it is is is one important kind of bear it is is is one important kind of prerequisite to preaching Christ prerequisite to preaching Christ prerequisite to preaching Christ faithfully from Ecclesiastes. I think faithfully from Ecclesiastes. I think faithfully from Ecclesiastes. I think another one would be that even just as a another one would be that even just as a another one would be that even just as a a sort of homalytical point. My outlines a sort of homalytical point. My outlines a sort of homalytical point. My outlines would often sound very negative because would often sound very negative because would often sound very negative because it's a pretty negative passage. My it's a pretty negative passage. My it's a pretty negative passage. My outline is more in demolition mode. But outline is more in demolition mode. But outline is more in demolition mode. But once I've given the kind of thrust of once I've given the kind of thrust of once I've given the kind of thrust of the text, I would sort of zoom out and

the text, I would sort of zoom out and the text, I would sort of zoom out and say, well, what is Ecclesiastes not say, well, what is Ecclesiastes not say, well, what is Ecclesiastes not telling us? What fills this picture out? telling us? What fills this picture out? telling us? What fills this picture out? What else do we know? And how does this What else do we know? And how does this What else do we know? And how does this fit with the the God who is sovereign fit with the the God who is sovereign fit with the the God who is sovereign and loving the, you know, what he and loving the, you know, what he and loving the, you know, what he created us for? So, there'd be kind of created us for? So, there'd be kind of created us for? So, there'd be kind of like a here's the main thrust of the like a here's the main thrust of the like a here's the main thrust of the passage and it sort of come back around passage and it sort of come back around passage and it sort of come back around a little bit maybe in each point. Um, so a little bit maybe in each point. Um, so a little bit maybe in each point. Um, so that again in some of these darker that again in some of these darker that again in some of these darker sections, we really are following the sections, we really are following the sections, we really are following the thrust of the text, but there's kind of thrust of the text, but there's kind of thrust of the text, but there's kind of a butt to help us sort of remember and a butt to help us sort of remember and a butt to help us sort of remember and get our bearings. And I think, you know, get our bearings. And I think, you know, get our bearings. And I think, you know, preaching, I'm I'm a firm believer in preaching, I'm I'm a firm believer in preaching, I'm I'm a firm believer in expositional preaching. We're also expositional preaching. We're also expositional preaching. We're also preaching the fullness of of inspired preaching the fullness of of inspired preaching the fullness of of inspired scripture and helping our people put it scripture and helping our people put it scripture and helping our people put it together. together. together. >> So, those would be a couple preaching >> So, those would be a couple preaching >> So, those would be a couple preaching tips. Um, I would also just say it is a tips. Um, I would also just say it is a tips. Um, I would also just say it is a book that that uh bears extra dividends book that that uh bears extra dividends book that that uh bears extra dividends for kind of putting in some big picture for kind of putting in some big picture for kind of putting in some big picture interpretive work on the front end. Um, interpretive work on the front end. Um, interpretive work on the front end. Um, so if you can set aside a little bit so if you can set aside a little bit so if you can set aside a little bit more time to just study the big picture more time to just study the big picture more time to just study the big picture of the book as a whole, map it out, that of the book as a whole, map it out, that of the book as a whole, map it out, that was certainly very beneficial for me. was certainly very beneficial for me. was certainly very beneficial for me. >> Yeah, that's good. And this book will no >> Yeah, that's good. And this book will no >> Yeah, that's good. And this book will no doubt be an aid to people in the doubt be an aid to people in the doubt be an aid to people in the process.

process. process. >> The book is Everything is Never Enough. >> The book is Everything is Never Enough. >> The book is Everything is Never Enough. Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Ecclesiastes Surprising Path to Resilient Happiness. The author, my Resilient Happiness. The author, my Resilient Happiness. The author, my guest, Bobby Jameson from Trinity guest, Bobby Jameson from Trinity guest, Bobby Jameson from Trinity Baptist Church, Chapel Hill, North Baptist Church, Chapel Hill, North Baptist Church, Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Bobby, in conclusion, I want Carolina. Bobby, in conclusion, I want Carolina. Bobby, in conclusion, I want to just quote you here. Happiness comes to just quote you here. Happiness comes to just quote you here. Happiness comes not from trying to make this world not from trying to make this world not from trying to make this world satisfy all your desires, but from satisfy all your desires, but from satisfy all your desires, but from realizing that it never will. Happiness realizing that it never will. Happiness realizing that it never will. Happiness begins to glimpse new dimensions when begins to glimpse new dimensions when begins to glimpse new dimensions when you discover that everything is never you discover that everything is never you discover that everything is never enough. enough. enough. Thankfully, Christ is. Thanks, Bobby, Thankfully, Christ is. Thanks, Bobby, Thankfully, Christ is. Thanks, Bobby, for pointing to him through this for pointing to him through this for pointing to him through this difficult but ultimately rewarding book difficult but ultimately rewarding book difficult but ultimately rewarding book of Ecclesiastes. of Ecclesiastes. of Ecclesiastes. >> Thanks so much, Colin. >> Thanks so much, Colin. >> Thanks so much, Colin. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] >> Thanks for listening to this episode of >> Thanks for listening to this episode of >> Thanks for listening to this episode of Gospelbound. For more interviews and to Gospelbound. For more interviews and to Gospelbound. For more interviews and to sign up for my newsletter, head over to sign up for my newsletter, head over to sign up for my newsletter, head over to tgc.org/gosspelbound. Rate and review Gospel Bound on your Rate and review Gospel Bound on your favorite podcast platform so others can favorite podcast platform so others can favorite podcast platform so others can join the conversation. Until next time, join the conversation. Until next time, join the conversation. Until next time, remember, when we're bound to the remember, when we're bound to the remember, when we're bound to the gospel, we abound in hope.