Rapid-Fire Apologetics: Wes Huff Answers 10 Tough Questions About the Bible and Theology

Wes, as we near the end of the Wes, as we near the end of the interview, I just thought it'd be fun to interview, I just thought it'd be fun to interview, I just thought it'd be fun to do a little lightning round where you do a little lightning round where you do a little lightning round where you give brief response to common questions give brief response to common questions give brief response to common questions or objections. Now, obviously, there's or objections. Now, obviously, there's or objections. Now, obviously, there's more that you could say or would say if more that you could say or would say if more that you could say or would say if given the opportunity, but in daily given the opportunity, but in daily given the opportunity, but in daily life, of course, we don't always have life, of course, we don't always have life, of course, we don't always have the ability to engage in unhurried the ability to engage in unhurried the ability to engage in unhurried dialogue. So, I'd just be curious to dialogue. So, I'd just be curious to dialogue. So, I'd just be curious to know where you tend to immediately go uh know where you tend to immediately go uh know where you tend to immediately go uh with a a skeptic with uh various topics. with a a skeptic with uh various topics. with a a skeptic with uh various topics. So for let's just start with the problem So for let's just start with the problem So for let's just start with the problem of evil which for many people is the of evil which for many people is the of evil which for many people is the number one stumbling block and kind of number one stumbling block and kind of number one stumbling block and kind of defeater belief as they think about uh defeater belief as they think about uh defeater belief as they think about uh how God could be all powerful and all how God could be all powerful and all how God could be all powerful and all good and all loving especially in the good and all loving especially in the good and all loving especially in the face of seemingly senseless suffering face of seemingly senseless suffering face of seemingly senseless suffering with children and others. Colin recently with children and others. Colin recently with children and others. Colin recently uh wrote a book exploring this in the uh wrote a book exploring this in the uh wrote a book exploring this in the TUCC hard question series and TUCC hard question series and TUCC hard question series and particularly reflecting on the particularly reflecting on the particularly reflecting on the Holocaust. So, what's your um what's Holocaust. So, what's your um what's Holocaust. So, what's your um what's your kind of quick way of going about your kind of quick way of going about your kind of quick way of going about what is a very um heavy and complicated what is a very um heavy and complicated what is a very um heavy and complicated topic?

topic? topic? >> Yeah. Well, I I think um part of the >> Yeah. Well, I I think um part of the >> Yeah. Well, I I think um part of the question of the problem of evil, which I question of the problem of evil, which I question of the problem of evil, which I think is arguably the hardest apologetic think is arguably the hardest apologetic think is arguably the hardest apologetic question there is uh because there isn't question there is uh because there isn't question there is uh because there isn't a simple answer to it is the fact that a simple answer to it is the fact that a simple answer to it is the fact that the question assumes something to begin the question assumes something to begin the question assumes something to begin with. Is that evil is something right? with. Is that evil is something right? with. Is that evil is something right? We see it in the world. We see the We see it in the world. We see the We see it in the world. We see the brokenness. We understand that the this brokenness. We understand that the this brokenness. We understand that the this beautiful world wasn't meant to be like beautiful world wasn't meant to be like beautiful world wasn't meant to be like this to some degree. And so the fact this to some degree. And so the fact this to some degree. And so the fact that God that evil is something that God that evil is something that God that evil is something testifies to there being an objective testifies to there being an objective testifies to there being an objective standard to weigh that by. Right? If standard to weigh that by. Right? If standard to weigh that by. Right? If there is an objective evil, you're there is an objective evil, you're there is an objective evil, you're positing an objective good. And if positing an objective good. And if positing an objective good. And if you're positing an objective good, you're positing an objective good, you're positing an objective good, you're positing a moral law. Well, we you're positing a moral law. Well, we you're positing a moral law. Well, we need an answer for who that moral need an answer for who that moral need an answer for who that moral lawgiver is. And apart from God, I lawgiver is. And apart from God, I lawgiver is. And apart from God, I really think you're running into a lot really think you're running into a lot really think you're running into a lot of issues. You know, removing God from of issues. You know, removing God from of issues. You know, removing God from the picture. I don't think solves the the picture. I don't think solves the the picture. I don't think solves the problem. I actually think it complicates problem. I actually think it complicates problem. I actually think it complicates it because it means that evil is it because it means that evil is it because it means that evil is purposeless. And if evil is purposeless, purposeless. And if evil is purposeless, purposeless. And if evil is purposeless, then it really doesn't matter why you're then it really doesn't matter why you're then it really doesn't matter why you're struggling with any one particular struggling with any one particular struggling with any one particular issue. It it it's just, you know, that's issue. It it it's just, you know, that's issue. It it it's just, you know, that's just we're bags of meat running into just we're bags of meat running into just we're bags of meat running into other bags of meat. And so we're all other bags of meat. And so we're all other bags of meat. And so we're all going to die either, you know, sometime going to die either, you know, sometime going to die either, you know, sometime soon at the heat death of the universe.

soon at the heat death of the universe. soon at the heat death of the universe. And so who cares? And so who cares? And so who cares? >> And I think that's a problem. And I >> And I think that's a problem. And I >> And I think that's a problem. And I think we realize that's a problem. And think we realize that's a problem. And think we realize that's a problem. And one of the most quoted verses in the one of the most quoted verses in the one of the most quoted verses in the Bible from the Bible is a version of Bible from the Bible is a version of Bible from the Bible is a version of Exodus 34:6 where God describes his Exodus 34:6 where God describes his Exodus 34:6 where God describes his character as compassionate and merciful character as compassionate and merciful character as compassionate and merciful and overabounding and steadfast love. and overabounding and steadfast love. and overabounding and steadfast love. And I've always thought it was And I've always thought it was And I've always thought it was interesting as someone who has been uh interesting as someone who has been uh interesting as someone who has been uh very interested in linguistics and very interested in linguistics and very interested in linguistics and theology and that the English word theology and that the English word theology and that the English word compassion which seems to be the compassion which seems to be the compassion which seems to be the strength throughout the different strength throughout the different strength throughout the different iterations of that Exodus 346 whether iterations of that Exodus 346 whether iterations of that Exodus 346 whether you're finding in the prophets or the you're finding in the prophets or the you're finding in the prophets or the psalms is that compassion in English psalms is that compassion in English psalms is that compassion in English comes from two Latin words calm meaning comes from two Latin words calm meaning comes from two Latin words calm meaning with and passion meaning suffering. And with and passion meaning suffering. And with and passion meaning suffering. And that the God of the Bible is not some that the God of the Bible is not some that the God of the Bible is not some someone who is aloof. It's not the God someone who is aloof. It's not the God someone who is aloof. It's not the God of theism or dism God that sets things of theism or dism God that sets things of theism or dism God that sets things in motion, but it's a God who actually in motion, but it's a God who actually in motion, but it's a God who actually can relate to our hurt. Because unlike I can relate to our hurt. Because unlike I can relate to our hurt. Because unlike I think any other God in any other think any other God in any other think any other God in any other religious perspective, the God that we religious perspective, the God that we religious perspective, the God that we serve stepped out of eternity and into serve stepped out of eternity and into serve stepped out of eternity and into humanity in the second person of the humanity in the second person of the humanity in the second person of the Trinity and experiences that and can Trinity and experiences that and can Trinity and experiences that and can relate to that, can relate to relate to that, can relate to relate to that, can relate to abandonment and torture and hurt and abandonment and torture and hurt and abandonment and torture and hurt and heartbreak. M heartbreak. M heartbreak. M >> and so I think the problem of evil is >> and so I think the problem of evil is >> and so I think the problem of evil is the hardest question. But the fact that the hardest question. But the fact that the hardest question. But the fact that evil is something and also that evil is evil is something and also that evil is evil is something and also that evil is not some thing, right? That we can't not some thing, right? That we can't not some thing, right? That we can't measure it. We can't put it in a jar and measure it. We can't put it in a jar and measure it. We can't put it in a jar and say this is depravity and if I pour it say this is depravity and if I pour it say this is depravity and if I pour it on you, you're going to be worse than on you, you're going to be worse than on you, you're going to be worse than you were before.

you were before. you were before. >> And and so that means something too, >> And and so that means something too, >> And and so that means something too, doesn't it? And that we we understand doesn't it? And that we we understand doesn't it? And that we we understand that evil is something, but that it that evil is something, but that it that evil is something, but that it doesn't carry an onlogical status and doesn't carry an onlogical status and doesn't carry an onlogical status and that God is has and is doing something that God is has and is doing something that God is has and is doing something about evil. When Christ died on the about evil. When Christ died on the about evil. When Christ died on the cross, that started the work of making cross, that started the work of making cross, that started the work of making all things new. And so God is not all things new. And so God is not all things new. And so God is not indifferent about suffering because it indifferent about suffering because it indifferent about suffering because it killed his son. killed his son. killed his son. >> And so I think we can speak to people >> And so I think we can speak to people >> And so I think we can speak to people who are hurting and who are suffering who are hurting and who are suffering who are hurting and who are suffering and say, you know, God cares about you and say, you know, God cares about you and say, you know, God cares about you and God probably understands that more and God probably understands that more and God probably understands that more than you know. than you know. than you know. >> Wes, a lot of people trip on the claim >> Wes, a lot of people trip on the claim >> Wes, a lot of people trip on the claim of the exclusivity of Jesus Christ. How of the exclusivity of Jesus Christ. How of the exclusivity of Jesus Christ. How in the world can you believe that Jesus in the world can you believe that Jesus in the world can you believe that Jesus is the only way? Yeah. Well, I think um is the only way? Yeah. Well, I think um is the only way? Yeah. Well, I think um all worldviews at some point are all worldviews at some point are all worldviews at some point are exclusive. Uh I was in I mentioned being exclusive. Uh I was in I mentioned being exclusive. Uh I was in I mentioned being in India a few years back. Actually had in India a few years back. Actually had in India a few years back. Actually had a shortlived Bollywood career, but a shortlived Bollywood career, but a shortlived Bollywood career, but that's another podcast. Um and so I was that's another podcast. Um and so I was that's another podcast. Um and so I was I was in India uh one summer and um I I was in India uh one summer and um I I was in India uh one summer and um I ended up at the uh at at the the Grand ended up at the uh at at the the Grand ended up at the uh at at the the Grand Bahigh Lotus Temple which is in Delhi Bahigh Lotus Temple which is in Delhi Bahigh Lotus Temple which is in Delhi and I was walking around and uh I and I was walking around and uh I and I was walking around and uh I happened to find cuz he was sticking out happened to find cuz he was sticking out happened to find cuz he was sticking out like a sore thumb as well another white like a sore thumb as well another white like a sore thumb as well another white guy. He was from California and he was guy. He was from California and he was guy. He was from California and he was uh there on a pilgrimage and he said, uh there on a pilgrimage and he said, uh there on a pilgrimage and he said, you know, "Hi, my name is so and so.

you know, "Hi, my name is so and so. you know, "Hi, my name is so and so. I've been working here at the Bahigh I've been working here at the Bahigh I've been working here at the Bahigh Temple and I believe that all ways lead Temple and I believe that all ways lead Temple and I believe that all ways lead to God." And I said, "Oh, that's to God." And I said, "Oh, that's to God." And I said, "Oh, that's interesting. My name is Wes. I'm a Bible interesting. My name is Wes. I'm a Bible interesting. My name is Wes. I'm a Bible believing Christian. I believe one way believing Christian. I believe one way believing Christian. I believe one way leads to God." And he immediately went, leads to God." And he immediately went, leads to God." And he immediately went, "Oh, no, no. I can't accept that." I "Oh, no, no. I can't accept that." I "Oh, no, no. I can't accept that." I went, "Hold on. You're excluding me." You're excluding me." And he went, "No, no, no. We want to And he went, "No, no, no. We want to And he went, "No, no, no. We want to include everyone." include everyone." include everyone." And you know it's always stuck out in my And you know it's always stuck out in my And you know it's always stuck out in my mind that even the inclusivists have to mind that even the inclusivists have to mind that even the inclusivists have to exclude the exclusivists. exclude the exclusivists. exclude the exclusivists. >> And so nobody is fully inclusivistic in >> And so nobody is fully inclusivistic in >> And so nobody is fully inclusivistic in that sense. So for me to say that sense. So for me to say that sense. So for me to say >> that Jesus is the way, the truth and the >> that Jesus is the way, the truth and the >> that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the father but life and no one comes to the father but life and no one comes to the father but through him is not it's not actually through him is not it's not actually through him is not it's not actually unique unique unique >> in the same sense that if you look at >> in the same sense that if you look at >> in the same sense that if you look at all worldviews, all worldviews, all worldviews, >> you know, Islam says Muhammad is the >> you know, Islam says Muhammad is the >> you know, Islam says Muhammad is the prophet of God and uh and there is no prophet of God and uh and there is no prophet of God and uh and there is no other god, right? Um even the the Jewish other god, right? Um even the the Jewish other god, right? Um even the the Jewish statement the shama um here Israel the statement the shama um here Israel the statement the shama um here Israel the Lord is God the Lord is one well that Lord is God the Lord is one well that Lord is God the Lord is one well that excludes perspectives that don't believe excludes perspectives that don't believe excludes perspectives that don't believe that God is one that God is one that God is one >> and you know people often like to tout >> and you know people often like to tout >> and you know people often like to tout that there are these perspectives like that there are these perspectives like that there are these perspectives like Buddhism that are more inclusivistic Buddhism that are more inclusivistic Buddhism that are more inclusivistic well if you actually read into Buddhism well if you actually read into Buddhism well if you actually read into Buddhism uh Gutam Sodartha who grew up a Hindu uh Gutam Sodartha who grew up a Hindu uh Gutam Sodartha who grew up a Hindu rejected Hinduism and the Vadas and said rejected Hinduism and the Vadas and said rejected Hinduism and the Vadas and said that they were evil. So, you know, if that they were evil. So, you know, if that they were evil. So, you know, if you dig down to all these things, you're you dig down to all these things, you're you dig down to all these things, you're going to find an exclusivity somewhere, going to find an exclusivity somewhere, going to find an exclusivity somewhere, even if the inclusivists have to exclude even if the inclusivists have to exclude even if the inclusivists have to exclude the exclusivists. So, I don't think it's the exclusivists. So, I don't think it's the exclusivists. So, I don't think it's unique. Um, and I think truth by its unique. Um, and I think truth by its unique. Um, and I think truth by its very nature is exclusive. And that might very nature is exclusive. And that might very nature is exclusive. And that might be uh controversial, but it's not be uh controversial, but it's not be uh controversial, but it's not unclear.

unclear. unclear. >> It's good. >> It's good. >> It's good. >> Let's jump to the next one. How can God >> Let's jump to the next one. How can God >> Let's jump to the next one. How can God be so loving if you're going to send all be so loving if you're going to send all be so loving if you're going to send all these people to hell? these people to hell? these people to hell? Well, I think um what the question fails Well, I think um what the question fails Well, I think um what the question fails to realize is that it is out of God's to realize is that it is out of God's to realize is that it is out of God's love that his justice needs to be love that his justice needs to be love that his justice needs to be enacted and that it assumes that God enacted and that it assumes that God enacted and that it assumes that God owes us something. And the reality is is owes us something. And the reality is is owes us something. And the reality is is that we don't actually want justice. We that we don't actually want justice. We that we don't actually want justice. We don't want our just desserts because if don't want our just desserts because if don't want our just desserts because if we get justice, we get punishment. we get justice, we get punishment. we get justice, we get punishment. >> Grace and mercy are often confused. But >> Grace and mercy are often confused. But >> Grace and mercy are often confused. But uh whereas uh justice is getting what uh whereas uh justice is getting what uh whereas uh justice is getting what you do deserve, mercy is not getting you do deserve, mercy is not getting you do deserve, mercy is not getting what you do deserve and grace is getting what you do deserve and grace is getting what you do deserve and grace is getting what you don't deserve. And so if you what you don't deserve. And so if you what you don't deserve. And so if you want justice, well then we're all sunk, want justice, well then we're all sunk, want justice, well then we're all sunk, right? We get what we deserve and that right? We get what we deserve and that right? We get what we deserve and that is sin and hell 100% of the time. But is sin and hell 100% of the time. But is sin and hell 100% of the time. But thanks be to God that when Christ dies thanks be to God that when Christ dies thanks be to God that when Christ dies on the cross, justice is fully satisfied on the cross, justice is fully satisfied on the cross, justice is fully satisfied >> and the wrath of God that we deserve is >> and the wrath of God that we deserve is >> and the wrath of God that we deserve is taken upon him. And because of that, taken upon him. And because of that, taken upon him. And because of that, mercy is actually enabled to be given mercy is actually enabled to be given mercy is actually enabled to be given out because God's law is not broken.

out because God's law is not broken. out because God's law is not broken. It's accomplished. And so now we don't It's accomplished. And so now we don't It's accomplished. And so now we don't get what we do deserve. And not only do get what we do deserve. And not only do get what we do deserve. And not only do we not get what we do deserve, we get we not get what we do deserve, we get we not get what we do deserve, we get what we don't deserve. And that is being what we don't deserve. And that is being what we don't deserve. And that is being adopted as as uh sons and and daughters adopted as as uh sons and and daughters adopted as as uh sons and and daughters of the most high. And so it is because of the most high. And so it is because of the most high. And so it is because of the doctrine of hell because God is of the doctrine of hell because God is of the doctrine of hell because God is holy and he's concerned with his holy and he's concerned with his holy and he's concerned with his holiness that we actually you know holiness that we actually you know holiness that we actually you know nobody looks at say a criminal who is nobody looks at say a criminal who is nobody looks at say a criminal who is committed a heinous crime against committed a heinous crime against committed a heinous crime against vulnerable people or against children or vulnerable people or against children or vulnerable people or against children or against the elderly and says you know uh against the elderly and says you know uh against the elderly and says you know uh is it really is it really just to punish is it really is it really just to punish is it really is it really just to punish them? Is it really loving to punish them? Is it really loving to punish them? Is it really loving to punish them? them? them? >> You know more often than not we want to >> You know more often than not we want to >> You know more often than not we want to throw the book at them. And I think what throw the book at them. And I think what throw the book at them. And I think what we fail to realize is how truly heinous we fail to realize is how truly heinous we fail to realize is how truly heinous the uh cosmic rebellion of our sin the uh cosmic rebellion of our sin the uh cosmic rebellion of our sin actually is. Uh sometimes people say, actually is. Uh sometimes people say, actually is. Uh sometimes people say, you know, if if God is real, well, why you know, if if God is real, well, why you know, if if God is real, well, why doesn't he do anything about the evil in doesn't he do anything about the evil in doesn't he do anything about the evil in the world? And I think actually when we the world? And I think actually when we the world? And I think actually when we actually look at the doctrine of hell, actually look at the doctrine of hell, actually look at the doctrine of hell, that is God doing something about the that is God doing something about the that is God doing something about the evil in the world. And unfortunately, evil in the world. And unfortunately, evil in the world. And unfortunately, whereas we might want to play God, when whereas we might want to play God, when whereas we might want to play God, when God actually is able to play God, uh we God actually is able to play God, uh we God actually is able to play God, uh we we point the finger at him when it's far we point the finger at him when it's far we point the finger at him when it's far more often that we don't understand more often that we don't understand more often that we don't understand what's going on.

what's going on. what's going on. >> Reminds me of the Puritan Thomas Brooks >> Reminds me of the Puritan Thomas Brooks >> Reminds me of the Puritan Thomas Brooks who said, "There are no little sins who said, "There are no little sins who said, "There are no little sins because there is no little God." because there is no little God." because there is no little God." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wes, we live in a scientific age. How >> Wes, we live in a scientific age. How >> Wes, we live in a scientific age. How can you take the Bible seriously in can you take the Bible seriously in can you take the Bible seriously in light of the findings of science? light of the findings of science? light of the findings of science? Well, I think if you actually look at Well, I think if you actually look at Well, I think if you actually look at the history of science, uh the majority the history of science, uh the majority the history of science, uh the majority of individuals who came up with of individuals who came up with of individuals who came up with something like the scientific method something like the scientific method something like the scientific method were individuals who saw the coherence were individuals who saw the coherence were individuals who saw the coherence in the universe and tried to find an in the universe and tried to find an in the universe and tried to find an explanation for it. Right? And so I explanation for it. Right? And so I explanation for it. Right? And so I think a lot of people assume that think a lot of people assume that think a lot of people assume that science and God are mutually exclusive. science and God are mutually exclusive. science and God are mutually exclusive. Uh but that's not that's not true. Uh but that's not that's not true. Uh but that's not that's not true. That's not true historically. And uh if That's not true historically. And uh if That's not true historically. And uh if if God did create this world, then the if God did create this world, then the if God did create this world, then the investigation of the answers to the investigation of the answers to the investigation of the answers to the created world is just another way to created world is just another way to created world is just another way to glorify him. And so if we want to pit glorify him. And so if we want to pit glorify him. And so if we want to pit that against scripture, I think we're that against scripture, I think we're that against scripture, I think we're mostly missing the boat in that um you mostly missing the boat in that um you mostly missing the boat in that um you know, sometimes uh scripture is not know, sometimes uh scripture is not know, sometimes uh scripture is not intending to give us scientific intending to give us scientific intending to give us scientific realities and uh we can read some parts realities and uh we can read some parts realities and uh we can read some parts of scripture like a scientific textbook of scripture like a scientific textbook of scripture like a scientific textbook when that was really not the intention when that was really not the intention when that was really not the intention of the book to begin with. And that of the book to begin with. And that of the book to begin with. And that doesn't mean that they're contradictory.

doesn't mean that they're contradictory. doesn't mean that they're contradictory. It just means that we need to make sure It just means that we need to make sure It just means that we need to make sure that we're reading hermeneutically that we're reading hermeneutically that we're reading hermeneutically things properly. And likewise, you know, things properly. And likewise, you know, things properly. And likewise, you know, uh there's the um was it the Aquinas who uh there's the um was it the Aquinas who uh there's the um was it the Aquinas who talked about the uh revelation in in the talked about the uh revelation in in the talked about the uh revelation in in the word and revelation within nature. And word and revelation within nature. And word and revelation within nature. And so as Paul says, you know, God's divine so as Paul says, you know, God's divine so as Paul says, you know, God's divine attributes and invisible qualities have attributes and invisible qualities have attributes and invisible qualities have been shown throughout creation so that been shown throughout creation so that been shown throughout creation so that no man is and it's an apologous without no man is and it's an apologous without no man is and it's an apologous without an apologetic. So we can look at the an apologetic. So we can look at the an apologetic. So we can look at the universe and realize that the nature universe and realize that the nature universe and realize that the nature itself is crying out that there is a itself is crying out that there is a itself is crying out that there is a creator. And so the investigation of creator. And so the investigation of creator. And so the investigation of that is actually in one sense could be that is actually in one sense could be that is actually in one sense could be argued as a form of worship. argued as a form of worship. argued as a form of worship. >> But Wes, Christians have done terrible >> But Wes, Christians have done terrible >> But Wes, Christians have done terrible things. How can you possibly believe in things. How can you possibly believe in things. How can you possibly believe in Christianity? Christianity? Christianity? >> Yeah. Um I I think that's an interesting >> Yeah. Um I I think that's an interesting >> Yeah. Um I I think that's an interesting objection. Uh a friend of mine, John objection. Uh a friend of mine, John objection. Uh a friend of mine, John Dixon, wrote a great book called Bullies Dixon, wrote a great book called Bullies Dixon, wrote a great book called Bullies and Saints, which I would highly and Saints, which I would highly and Saints, which I would highly recommend on this topic. Uh but uh one recommend on this topic. Uh but uh one recommend on this topic. Uh but uh one of the illustrations that I sometimes of the illustrations that I sometimes of the illustrations that I sometimes use in this is that if you judged use in this is that if you judged use in this is that if you judged Beethoven based on my ability to play Beethoven based on my ability to play Beethoven based on my ability to play the cello, you'd be getting a few things wrong, you'd be getting a few things wrong, wouldn't you? Um and so if you handed me wouldn't you? Um and so if you handed me wouldn't you? Um and so if you handed me a cello and said, you know, play a cello and said, you know, play a cello and said, you know, play Beethoven's caterer number four, I would Beethoven's caterer number four, I would Beethoven's caterer number four, I would say, okay, well, I could scratch away on say, okay, well, I could scratch away on say, okay, well, I could scratch away on it. And then if your conclusion is then, it. And then if your conclusion is then, it. And then if your conclusion is then, um Beethoven is terrible. Um that's not um Beethoven is terrible. Um that's not um Beethoven is terrible. Um that's not an accurate reflection of Beethoven.

an accurate reflection of Beethoven. an accurate reflection of Beethoven. That's a that's a poor reflection of my That's a that's a poor reflection of my That's a that's a poor reflection of my ability to do that. So I mean if ability to do that. So I mean if ability to do that. So I mean if anything the testimony of scripture is anything the testimony of scripture is anything the testimony of scripture is that we are going to be inadequate that we are going to be inadequate that we are going to be inadequate representations of God and that's why representations of God and that's why representations of God and that's why the story is not about any one of the the story is not about any one of the the story is not about any one of the characters of scripture other than Jesus characters of scripture other than Jesus characters of scripture other than Jesus because what we can't do Jesus does on because what we can't do Jesus does on because what we can't do Jesus does on our behalf. our behalf. our behalf. >> And so I think we should expect >> And so I think we should expect >> And so I think we should expect Christians to fall short. Not that Christians to fall short. Not that Christians to fall short. Not that that's a an excuse or a way to justify that's a an excuse or a way to justify that's a an excuse or a way to justify when people truly do things that they when people truly do things that they when people truly do things that they should not but that's going to happen. should not but that's going to happen. should not but that's going to happen. And if we're putting our hope and trust And if we're putting our hope and trust And if we're putting our hope and trust in people, that's uh that's highly in people, that's uh that's highly in people, that's uh that's highly problematic. And um we should make sure problematic. And um we should make sure problematic. And um we should make sure that we're following Christ that it's that we're following Christ that it's that we're following Christ that it's Christianity and maybe not churchianity Christianity and maybe not churchianity Christianity and maybe not churchianity or pastority or you know, you fill in or pastority or you know, you fill in or pastority or you know, you fill in the gaps, your favorite theologian or the gaps, your favorite theologian or the gaps, your favorite theologian or Christian or whatever. Christian or whatever. Christian or whatever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um uh they're they're going to be faulty >> Um uh they're they're going to be faulty >> Um uh they're they're going to be faulty in some regard, minor or major. And so, in some regard, minor or major. And so, in some regard, minor or major. And so, uh, I would expect Christians to act uh, I would expect Christians to act uh, I would expect Christians to act poorly and badly, um, because I poorly and badly, um, because I poorly and badly, um, because I understand that I act poorly and badly.

understand that I act poorly and badly. understand that I act poorly and badly. And I don't want to be the standard of And I don't want to be the standard of And I don't want to be the standard of what a Christian is either. I I want you what a Christian is either. I I want you what a Christian is either. I I want you to look to Jesus Christ who is the only to look to Jesus Christ who is the only to look to Jesus Christ who is the only person, the author and perfector of your person, the author and perfector of your person, the author and perfector of your faith. faith. faith. >> Only a few more to go here. I'm going to >> Only a few more to go here. I'm going to >> Only a few more to go here. I'm going to give one right up your wheelhouse. Okay? give one right up your wheelhouse. Okay? give one right up your wheelhouse. Okay? That's going to be the reliability of That's going to be the reliability of That's going to be the reliability of the scriptures. But specifically, I want the scriptures. But specifically, I want the scriptures. But specifically, I want you to talk about the Old Testament you to talk about the Old Testament you to talk about the Old Testament because I think it's it's sort of like a because I think it's it's sort of like a because I think it's it's sort of like a pyramid. A lot of the answers are about pyramid. A lot of the answers are about pyramid. A lot of the answers are about the Gospels, then broadly about the New the Gospels, then broadly about the New the Gospels, then broadly about the New Testament. Testament. Testament. >> I don't read nearly as much about the >> I don't read nearly as much about the >> I don't read nearly as much about the Old Testament reliability. Answer that Old Testament reliability. Answer that Old Testament reliability. Answer that question. question. question. >> Yeah, I think what we see within the >> Yeah, I think what we see within the >> Yeah, I think what we see within the reliability of the Old Testament is a reliability of the Old Testament is a reliability of the Old Testament is a little bit different than the New little bit different than the New little bit different than the New Testament. uh if for no other reason Testament. uh if for no other reason Testament. uh if for no other reason than the New Testament is just so much than the New Testament is just so much than the New Testament is just so much newer um historically it we have a lot newer um historically it we have a lot newer um historically it we have a lot more to to go off of because it's closer more to to go off of because it's closer more to to go off of because it's closer in proximity to our own time and so the in proximity to our own time and so the in proximity to our own time and so the older you go the more ambiguity you're older you go the more ambiguity you're older you go the more ambiguity you're going to get on something like going to get on something like going to get on something like historical verification. Now that being historical verification. Now that being historical verification. Now that being said I think there's enough grounds to said I think there's enough grounds to said I think there's enough grounds to look at some of the archaeological data look at some of the archaeological data look at some of the archaeological data and say that there's confirmation of a and say that there's confirmation of a and say that there's confirmation of a great deal of what's going on there. And great deal of what's going on there. And great deal of what's going on there. And so you shouldn't expect to find Moses's so you shouldn't expect to find Moses's so you shouldn't expect to find Moses's tent or Abraham's garb or whatever uh tent or Abraham's garb or whatever uh tent or Abraham's garb or whatever uh because I don't think that those would because I don't think that those would because I don't think that those would survive thousands of years later. But survive thousands of years later. But survive thousands of years later. But that being said, I do think it's that being said, I do think it's that being said, I do think it's interesting that our primary source for interesting that our primary source for interesting that our primary source for a lot of historical information was the a lot of historical information was the a lot of historical information was the Bible until we found artifacts that kind Bible until we found artifacts that kind Bible until we found artifacts that kind of played into the evidence of that. If

of played into the evidence of that. If of played into the evidence of that. If you were to go back to the 13th century you were to go back to the 13th century you were to go back to the 13th century and ask a monk um who uh say um a a king and ask a monk um who uh say um a a king and ask a monk um who uh say um a a king in ancient Mesopotamian in ancient Mesopotamian in ancient Mesopotamian Mesopotamia was uh by name um he may Mesopotamia was uh by name um he may Mesopotamia was uh by name um he may very well open up the Old Testament and very well open up the Old Testament and very well open up the Old Testament and and and show you, you know, who is King and and show you, you know, who is King and and show you, you know, who is King SKareb? Oh well, you know, he led a SKareb? Oh well, you know, he led a SKareb? Oh well, you know, he led a siege against Hezekiah in Jerusalem. And siege against Hezekiah in Jerusalem. And siege against Hezekiah in Jerusalem. And um it wouldn't be until you know um it wouldn't be until you know um it wouldn't be until you know hundreds of years later that we would hundreds of years later that we would hundreds of years later that we would dig up King Sinekaribb's throne room and dig up King Sinekaribb's throne room and dig up King Sinekaribb's throne room and actually have a verification of actually have a verification of actually have a verification of something like the siege of Jerusalem or something like the siege of Jerusalem or something like the siege of Jerusalem or uh the sacking of Lakeish and all those uh the sacking of Lakeish and all those uh the sacking of Lakeish and all those things. Our primary evidence for a long things. Our primary evidence for a long things. Our primary evidence for a long long time for someone like Sinekreb king long time for someone like Sinekreb king long time for someone like Sinekreb king of Assyria was the Bible. And I think of Assyria was the Bible. And I think of Assyria was the Bible. And I think that that testifies to something and that that testifies to something and that that testifies to something and that's not true of every instance. that's not true of every instance. that's not true of every instance. Archaeology isn't a slam dunk for the Archaeology isn't a slam dunk for the Archaeology isn't a slam dunk for the historical reliability of the Bible. But historical reliability of the Bible. But historical reliability of the Bible. But I think it gives enough credence to say I think it gives enough credence to say I think it gives enough credence to say that there's enough of showing that that there's enough of showing that that there's enough of showing that these are talking about real places and these are talking about real places and these are talking about real places and real times and real locations to give us real times and real locations to give us real times and real locations to give us a level of confidence to say that a level of confidence to say that a level of confidence to say that there's something that's truthful going there's something that's truthful going there's something that's truthful going on here. Uh we historians refer to on here. Uh we historians refer to on here. Uh we historians refer to verilitude that means the appearance uh verilitude that means the appearance uh verilitude that means the appearance uh probability and the likelihood of truth.

probability and the likelihood of truth. probability and the likelihood of truth. And so I think there's an there's the And so I think there's an there's the And so I think there's an there's the the air of ver similitude within the old the air of ver similitude within the old the air of ver similitude within the old testament text enough that we can say testament text enough that we can say testament text enough that we can say from a historical standpoint this is from a historical standpoint this is from a historical standpoint this is true. And then once again from a true. And then once again from a true. And then once again from a theological standpoint we can see time theological standpoint we can see time theological standpoint we can see time and time again Jesus referring back to and time again Jesus referring back to and time again Jesus referring back to the truthfulness when he's quoting the the truthfulness when he's quoting the the truthfulness when he's quoting the old testament that he also thought that old testament that he also thought that old testament that he also thought that this was true that these things happened this was true that these things happened this was true that these things happened and that should be brought into the and that should be brought into the and that should be brought into the conversation as well. M conversation as well. M conversation as well. M >> second to last question, Wes. What would >> second to last question, Wes. What would >> second to last question, Wes. What would you say to someone who is convinced that you say to someone who is convinced that you say to someone who is convinced that Christians are bigots because of the Christians are bigots because of the Christians are bigots because of the Bible's sexual ethic? Bible's sexual ethic? Bible's sexual ethic? >> Yeah. I mean, that's a tricky one. Uh I >> Yeah. I mean, that's a tricky one. Uh I >> Yeah. I mean, that's a tricky one. Uh I think I would say you know um when it think I would say you know um when it think I would say you know um when it comes to sexual ethics, we're talking comes to sexual ethics, we're talking comes to sexual ethics, we're talking about something that is sacred and we're about something that is sacred and we're about something that is sacred and we're talking about something that God is not talking about something that God is not talking about something that God is not just kind of arbitrarily setting just kind of arbitrarily setting just kind of arbitrarily setting boundaries in place because he wants to boundaries in place because he wants to boundaries in place because he wants to be a cosmic killjoy. And in one sense, be a cosmic killjoy. And in one sense, be a cosmic killjoy. And in one sense, the the first mandate of creation um to the the first mandate of creation um to the the first mandate of creation um to be fruitful and multiply, you know, the be fruitful and multiply, you know, the be fruitful and multiply, you know, the first covenant made with humanity in first covenant made with humanity in first covenant made with humanity in marriage. The two should become one marriage. The two should become one marriage. The two should become one flesh. I think that that that testifies flesh. I think that that that testifies flesh. I think that that that testifies to something that's beautiful and that's to something that's beautiful and that's to something that's beautiful and that's sacred and that exists within proper sacred and that exists within proper sacred and that exists within proper boundaries for our good, for human boundaries for our good, for human boundaries for our good, for human flourishing. And I think we shouldn't flourishing. And I think we shouldn't flourishing. And I think we shouldn't make light of that. that the that sex is

make light of that. that the that sex is make light of that. that the that sex is a good and beautiful thing, that gender a good and beautiful thing, that gender a good and beautiful thing, that gender is a good and beautiful thing, and that is a good and beautiful thing, and that is a good and beautiful thing, and that it's the corruption of that that starts it's the corruption of that that starts it's the corruption of that that starts to erode to erode to erode the sacredness of this reality. And in the sacredness of this reality. And in the sacredness of this reality. And in one sense, you can look at something one sense, you can look at something one sense, you can look at something like the Ten Commandments and you can like the Ten Commandments and you can like the Ten Commandments and you can see those as a reflection of who God is see those as a reflection of who God is see those as a reflection of who God is in his character. You were created in in his character. You were created in in his character. You were created in God's image. God is not an adulterer. God's image. God is not an adulterer. God's image. God is not an adulterer. Don't commit adultery. M Don't commit adultery. M Don't commit adultery. M >> you can live up to the image of God in >> you can live up to the image of God in >> you can live up to the image of God in you by holding that law as sacred. And you by holding that law as sacred. And you by holding that law as sacred. And in when the spirit of God is working in in when the spirit of God is working in in when the spirit of God is working in your life, that starts to become less of your life, that starts to become less of your life, that starts to become less of a command, thou shalt not, and more of a a command, thou shalt not, and more of a a command, thou shalt not, and more of a promise, thou shalt not. You won't. You promise, thou shalt not. You won't. You promise, thou shalt not. You won't. You don't need to do this. You can live the don't need to do this. You can live the don't need to do this. You can live the life that you were created to be. I on life that you were created to be. I on life that you were created to be. I on the back end of that I I'd also like to the back end of that I I'd also like to the back end of that I I'd also like to say this is that our culture has say this is that our culture has say this is that our culture has swallowed the lie that your ability to swallowed the lie that your ability to swallowed the lie that your ability to have a sexual or romantic relationship have a sexual or romantic relationship have a sexual or romantic relationship is the beall and endall of your is the beall and endall of your is the beall and endall of your identity. And boy is that not true. identity. And boy is that not true. identity. And boy is that not true. >> All you have to do is get married and >> All you have to do is get married and >> All you have to do is get married and realize that that's not true.

realize that that's not true. realize that that's not true. >> Right? You're not going to all of a >> Right? You're not going to all of a >> Right? You're not going to all of a sudden be fulfilled in all aspects of sudden be fulfilled in all aspects of sudden be fulfilled in all aspects of your life when you get married. And your life when you get married. And your life when you get married. And that's okay. And in one sense, I'm I'm that's okay. And in one sense, I'm I'm that's okay. And in one sense, I'm I'm more and more of the opinion that um more and more of the opinion that um more and more of the opinion that um that to say that that this is the beall that to say that that this is the beall that to say that that this is the beall and endall is actually in one form a and endall is actually in one form a and endall is actually in one form a christoologgical heresy because the true christoologgical heresy because the true christoologgical heresy because the true image of humanity in the person of Jesus image of humanity in the person of Jesus image of humanity in the person of Jesus Christ was that of a celibate single Christ was that of a celibate single Christ was that of a celibate single man. And so to say that you have to live man. And so to say that you have to live man. And so to say that you have to live out your identity in your ability to out your identity in your ability to out your identity in your ability to pursue your sexual or romantic desires pursue your sexual or romantic desires pursue your sexual or romantic desires is actually to say something incorrect is actually to say something incorrect is actually to say something incorrect about the person of Jesus Christ. about the person of Jesus Christ. about the person of Jesus Christ. >> And I think that that is at minimum it's >> And I think that that is at minimum it's >> And I think that that is at minimum it's dangerous and at most it's heretical. dangerous and at most it's heretical. dangerous and at most it's heretical. And so I think we need to look at our And so I think we need to look at our And so I think we need to look at our society and say this identity issue is society and say this identity issue is society and say this identity issue is not about your ability to live up to not about your ability to live up to not about your ability to live up to those standards which society is telling those standards which society is telling those standards which society is telling you is going to fulfill you and it's not you is going to fulfill you and it's not you is going to fulfill you and it's not and you are more than the sum of your and you are more than the sum of your and you are more than the sum of your actions. actions. actions. That's a a gospel truth, right? We are That's a a gospel truth, right? We are That's a a gospel truth, right? We are more than the sum of our actions in more than the sum of our actions in more than the sum of our actions in terms of our sin. And thanks be to God terms of our sin. And thanks be to God terms of our sin. And thanks be to God that that is a reality, right? And so I that that is a reality, right? And so I that that is a reality, right? And so I think this the world is going to look at think this the world is going to look at think this the world is going to look at something like sexual ethics and it's something like sexual ethics and it's something like sexual ethics and it's always going to misunderstand what the always going to misunderstand what the always going to misunderstand what the purpose and meaning and intention of purpose and meaning and intention of purpose and meaning and intention of them are. And it's going to say that them are. And it's going to say that them are. And it's going to say that unless you are able to all the time unless you are able to all the time unless you are able to all the time without reservation do whatever you want without reservation do whatever you want without reservation do whatever you want whenever you want because that's perfect whenever you want because that's perfect whenever you want because that's perfect freedom. I mean there are countries freedom. I mean there are countries freedom. I mean there are countries around the world today where you can do around the world today where you can do around the world today where you can do whatever you want however you want to do whatever you want however you want to do whatever you want however you want to do it whenever you want to do it. We don't it whenever you want to do it. We don't it whenever you want to do it. We don't refer to those places as safe.

refer to those places as safe. refer to those places as safe. >> That's anarchy. And so that applies in >> That's anarchy. And so that applies in >> That's anarchy. And so that applies in all uses of the term, especially when all uses of the term, especially when all uses of the term, especially when we're talking about something that needs we're talking about something that needs we're talking about something that needs to be held within the boundaries of to be held within the boundaries of to be held within the boundaries of something that is good and that is something that is good and that is something that is good and that is beautiful, and that's what sex is. beautiful, and that's what sex is. beautiful, and that's what sex is. >> Wes, why do you believe that Jesus rose >> Wes, why do you believe that Jesus rose >> Wes, why do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? from the dead? from the dead? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I there are there >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I there are there >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I there are there are a number of layers to this. Uh first are a number of layers to this. Uh first are a number of layers to this. Uh first and foremost, I'm convinced historically and foremost, I'm convinced historically and foremost, I'm convinced historically that that actually did take place. I that that actually did take place. I that that actually did take place. I think that the gospels uh have enough of think that the gospels uh have enough of think that the gospels uh have enough of that air of credibility to them that the that air of credibility to them that the that air of credibility to them that the the inference to the best explanation of the inference to the best explanation of the inference to the best explanation of what took place there that you went from what took place there that you went from what took place there that you went from 11 scared disciples hiding in an upper 11 scared disciples hiding in an upper 11 scared disciples hiding in an upper room to going out and being the most room to going out and being the most room to going out and being the most effective worldchanging missionary force effective worldchanging missionary force effective worldchanging missionary force that the history of the world has ever that the history of the world has ever that the history of the world has ever seen. I think that the explanation for seen. I think that the explanation for seen. I think that the explanation for that and specifically the rebuttals to that and specifically the rebuttals to that and specifically the rebuttals to that the rebuttals are insufficient to that the rebuttals are insufficient to that the rebuttals are insufficient to actually explain the evidence. You know, actually explain the evidence. You know, actually explain the evidence. You know, some historians say that you the some historians say that you the some historians say that you the resurrection is not something that you resurrection is not something that you resurrection is not something that you can weigh historically. And I think that can weigh historically. And I think that can weigh historically. And I think that that's incorrect. I heard Peter Williams that's incorrect. I heard Peter Williams that's incorrect. I heard Peter Williams once say that, you know, our ability to once say that, you know, our ability to once say that, you know, our ability to test something is only as good as what test something is only as good as what test something is only as good as what we weigh them on. So if I put my we weigh them on. So if I put my we weigh them on. So if I put my toothbrush on a bathroom scale, it's toothbrush on a bathroom scale, it's toothbrush on a bathroom scale, it's going to say it's zero. But that doesn't going to say it's zero. But that doesn't going to say it's zero. But that doesn't mean that my toothbrush is has no weight mean that my toothbrush is has no weight mean that my toothbrush is has no weight to it. It's not floating in the air. We to it. It's not floating in the air. We to it. It's not floating in the air. We just need to calibrate our ability to just need to calibrate our ability to just need to calibrate our ability to actually discern what we're trying to actually discern what we're trying to actually discern what we're trying to evaluate. And so I think there is a evaluate. And so I think there is a evaluate. And so I think there is a level of kind of turning up the level of kind of turning up the level of kind of turning up the calibration on the historical method and calibration on the historical method and calibration on the historical method and saying we have someone who objectively saying we have someone who objectively saying we have someone who objectively lived, we have someone who objectively

lived, we have someone who objectively lived, we have someone who objectively died and then um we he was seen again died and then um we he was seen again died and then um we he was seen again after that. And so uh that needs an after that. And so uh that needs an after that. And so uh that needs an explanation. And on top of that uh the explanation. And on top of that uh the explanation. And on top of that uh the ability of uh that narrative to change ability of uh that narrative to change ability of uh that narrative to change lives lives lives >> also needs to be factored in this >> also needs to be factored in this >> also needs to be factored in this conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Is you have the what could be labeled as >> Is you have the what could be labeled as >> Is you have the what could be labeled as um you know uh not the objective facts um you know uh not the objective facts um you know uh not the objective facts but the fact that people go from but the fact that people go from but the fact that people go from spiritually dead to spiritually alive spiritually dead to spiritually alive spiritually dead to spiritually alive and are truly and genuinely impacted by and are truly and genuinely impacted by and are truly and genuinely impacted by the message of the gospel. And um I the message of the gospel. And um I the message of the gospel. And um I think that combined with the historical think that combined with the historical think that combined with the historical information, I am convinced beyond a information, I am convinced beyond a information, I am convinced beyond a reason of a doubt that historically reason of a doubt that historically reason of a doubt that historically Jesus rose from the dead. But also that Jesus rose from the dead. But also that Jesus rose from the dead. But also that has completely and radically changed the has completely and radically changed the has completely and radically changed the way that I view the world. way that I view the world. way that I view the world. >> And so because of those two factors, I >> And so because of those two factors, I >> And so because of those two factors, I am more than convinced that I can live am more than convinced that I can live am more than convinced that I can live my life on that basis and that that is my life on that basis and that that is my life on that basis and that that is true. The capital T.

true. The capital T. true. The capital T. >> Wes, this has been amazing. >> Wes, this has been amazing. >> Wes, this has been amazing. But I've learned so much and and uh I'm But I've learned so much and and uh I'm But I've learned so much and and uh I'm always eager to be able to be sharpened always eager to be able to be sharpened always eager to be able to be sharpened in my apologetics, but especially in my apologetics, but especially in my apologetics, but especially encouraged in my faith, not only in what encouraged in my faith, not only in what encouraged in my faith, not only in what you've said, but in how you've said it, you've said, but in how you've said it, you've said, but in how you've said it, in the model that you've given us, and in the model that you've given us, and in the model that you've given us, and the model that you're you're giving so the model that you're you're giving so the model that you're you're giving so many others right now. So, how can we be many others right now. So, how can we be many others right now. So, how can we be be praying for you, praying for your be praying for you, praying for your be praying for you, praying for your ministry, and otherwise supporting you? ministry, and otherwise supporting you? ministry, and otherwise supporting you? Yeah, I mean I am still a little bit um Yeah, I mean I am still a little bit um Yeah, I mean I am still a little bit um overwhelmed by uh what's taken place in overwhelmed by uh what's taken place in overwhelmed by uh what's taken place in the last few months. It's happened very the last few months. It's happened very the last few months. It's happened very quickly and uh you know someone asked me quickly and uh you know someone asked me quickly and uh you know someone asked me recently you know how do how do you recently you know how do how do you recently you know how do how do you progress in sort of the Christian uh I progress in sort of the Christian uh I progress in sort of the Christian uh I think they even used the word um uh I think they even used the word um uh I think they even used the word um uh I don't know a celebrity like how how do don't know a celebrity like how how do don't know a celebrity like how how do you get there? And I jokingly said, you get there? And I jokingly said, you get there? And I jokingly said, "Well, you make manuscript Monday posts "Well, you make manuscript Monday posts "Well, you make manuscript Monday posts for 10 years and then Joe Rogan invites for 10 years and then Joe Rogan invites for 10 years and then Joe Rogan invites you on his podcast." And I think you you on his podcast." And I think you you on his podcast." And I think you know what's what that testifies to me know what's what that testifies to me know what's what that testifies to me too is that man, I I have really been too is that man, I I have really been too is that man, I I have really been so uninvolved in what's happened and so uninvolved in what's happened and so uninvolved in what's happened and it's a testimony to the work of the it's a testimony to the work of the it's a testimony to the work of the spirit. Uh but uh that requires a lot of spirit. Uh but uh that requires a lot of spirit. Uh but uh that requires a lot of wisdom and guidance and I'm I'm so wisdom and guidance and I'm I'm so wisdom and guidance and I'm I'm so thankful that I have a good support thankful that I have a good support thankful that I have a good support system. um in and around me which system. um in and around me which system. um in and around me which includes you know my pastors and my wife includes you know my pastors and my wife includes you know my pastors and my wife and people who I've met through this uh and people who I've met through this uh and people who I've met through this uh who I otherwise don't think I would have who I otherwise don't think I would have who I otherwise don't think I would have who have been able to um guide me uh and

who have been able to um guide me uh and who have been able to um guide me uh and and pray for me. Uh but I continue to and pray for me. Uh but I continue to and pray for me. Uh but I continue to covet um everyone's prayers. If I fade covet um everyone's prayers. If I fade covet um everyone's prayers. If I fade into obscurity and end up just you know into obscurity and end up just you know into obscurity and end up just you know pastoring my church I'm fine with that pastoring my church I'm fine with that pastoring my church I'm fine with that too. And I I I think that that would be too. And I I I think that that would be too. And I I I think that that would be more uh than um what I owed for the the more uh than um what I owed for the the more uh than um what I owed for the the calling that God has has put on on me. calling that God has has put on on me. calling that God has has put on on me. But um I think to make the most of every But um I think to make the most of every But um I think to make the most of every opportunity like that Colossians passage opportunity like that Colossians passage opportunity like that Colossians passage I quoted earlier um I quoted earlier um I quoted earlier um >> and to do so with uh just um pause. Uh >> and to do so with uh just um pause. Uh >> and to do so with uh just um pause. Uh it's so easy to jump into all the it's so easy to jump into all the it's so easy to jump into all the opportunities that seem to be presenting opportunities that seem to be presenting opportunities that seem to be presenting themselves. Um themselves. Um themselves. Um >> and but to do those carefully and slowly >> and but to do those carefully and slowly >> and but to do those carefully and slowly >> and also to make sure that I'm >> and also to make sure that I'm >> and also to make sure that I'm prioritizing my family. prioritizing my family. prioritizing my family. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um because uh that that is something >> Um because uh that that is something >> Um because uh that that is something that can that can that can >> Did I just hear Melissa say amen from >> Did I just hear Melissa say amen from >> Did I just hear Melissa say amen from another room? another room? another room? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have three kids, another on Um, yeah, I have three kids, another on Um, yeah, I have three kids, another on the way, and I want to make sure that the way, and I want to make sure that the way, and I want to make sure that I'm not neglecting the formative years I'm not neglecting the formative years I'm not neglecting the formative years of their young lives and making sure of their young lives and making sure of their young lives and making sure that they know that their their dad is that they know that their their dad is that they know that their their dad is loves Jesus, but also loves them.

loves Jesus, but also loves them. loves Jesus, but also loves them. >> And so, um, any any and all prayer for >> And so, um, any any and all prayer for >> And so, um, any any and all prayer for me, uh, in in, you know, all of the me, uh, in in, you know, all of the me, uh, in in, you know, all of the above categories is is very helpful. And above categories is is very helpful. And above categories is is very helpful. And so, I appreciate, um, what God has been so, I appreciate, um, what God has been so, I appreciate, um, what God has been doing, but also that I'm able to use doing, but also that I'm able to use doing, but also that I'm able to use that as a practical example for my own that as a practical example for my own that as a practical example for my own kids. M yeah that's great. Who is kids. M yeah that's great. Who is kids. M yeah that's great. Who is sufficient for these things sufficient for these things sufficient for these things >> as Paul says. Blake, will you pray for >> as Paul says. Blake, will you pray for >> as Paul says. Blake, will you pray for Wes and his ministry? Wes and his ministry? Wes and his ministry? >> Yeah, let's pray. Let's pray. Heavenly >> Yeah, let's pray. Let's pray. Heavenly >> Yeah, let's pray. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, thank you for Wes. Thank you for Father, thank you for Wes. Thank you for Father, thank you for Wes. Thank you for saving him. Thank you for drawing him uh saving him. Thank you for drawing him uh saving him. Thank you for drawing him uh to trust in Christ alone for salvation to trust in Christ alone for salvation to trust in Christ alone for salvation as he is offered in the gospel. Uh our as he is offered in the gospel. Uh our as he is offered in the gospel. Uh our we can only imagine how overwhelmed he we can only imagine how overwhelmed he we can only imagine how overwhelmed he is with the opportunities that are is with the opportunities that are is with the opportunities that are before him. Now, I I pray that you would before him. Now, I I pray that you would before him. Now, I I pray that you would keep him especially close to yourself, keep him especially close to yourself, keep him especially close to yourself, that you would give him joy in his wife that you would give him joy in his wife that you would give him joy in his wife and in his children, that you would give and in his children, that you would give and in his children, that you would give him joy and fellowship in the ministry him joy and fellowship in the ministry him joy and fellowship in the ministry of the local church, that you would give of the local church, that you would give of the local church, that you would give uh to him and to his counselors real uh to him and to his counselors real uh to him and to his counselors real wisdom in deciding what to do, what not wisdom in deciding what to do, what not wisdom in deciding what to do, what not to do, how much of what to do. Um, above to do, how much of what to do. Um, above to do, how much of what to do. Um, above all, Lord, give him the greatest joy all, Lord, give him the greatest joy all, Lord, give him the greatest joy simply as being a faithful servant of simply as being a faithful servant of simply as being a faithful servant of the Lord who draws attention to the the Lord who draws attention to the the Lord who draws attention to the Savior and says, "He must increase and I Savior and says, "He must increase and I Savior and says, "He must increase and I must decrease." Uh, g give him no must decrease." Uh, g give him no must decrease." Uh, g give him no delight in his fame, but give him delight in his fame, but give him delight in his fame, but give him supreme delight in the fame that he is

supreme delight in the fame that he is supreme delight in the fame that he is able to ascribe and point to that is in able to ascribe and point to that is in able to ascribe and point to that is in Jesus Christ. and uh keep him humble uh Jesus Christ. and uh keep him humble uh Jesus Christ. and uh keep him humble uh but keep him encouraged we pray and uh but keep him encouraged we pray and uh but keep him encouraged we pray and uh keep him in your word and using that keep him in your word and using that keep him in your word and using that word in his own life to uh grow in the word in his own life to uh grow in the word in his own life to uh grow in the knowledge of the Lord and then share knowledge of the Lord and then share knowledge of the Lord and then share that reality with others for the glory that reality with others for the glory that reality with others for the glory of Christ for the building up of the of Christ for the building up of the of Christ for the building up of the church for the salvation of sinners all church for the salvation of sinners all church for the salvation of sinners all these things we ask in Jesus name amen