Can You Rely on AI for Theology? [Recorded - Ep. 13]

If you want to scare yourself on a dark If you want to scare yourself on a dark and stormy night, try reading headlines and stormy night, try reading headlines and stormy night, try reading headlines about AI. about AI. about AI. >> This technological change looks >> This technological change looks >> This technological change looks different. It looks faster. It looks different. It looks faster. It looks different. It looks faster. It looks harder to adapt to. It's broader. The harder to adapt to. It's broader. The harder to adapt to. It's broader. The pace of progress keeps catching people pace of progress keeps catching people pace of progress keeps catching people off guard. off guard. off guard. >> Sci-fi telling us that AI is eventually >> Sci-fi telling us that AI is eventually >> Sci-fi telling us that AI is eventually going to kill us all. going to kill us all. going to kill us all. >> There's young people who just say like, >> There's young people who just say like, >> There's young people who just say like, I can't make any decision in my life I can't make any decision in my life I can't make any decision in my life without telling CHP everything that's without telling CHP everything that's without telling CHP everything that's going on. It knows me. It knows my going on. It knows me. It knows my going on. It knows me. It knows my friends. I'm going to do whatever it friends. I'm going to do whatever it friends. I'm going to do whatever it says. says. says. >> For decades, Hollywood has imagined what >> For decades, Hollywood has imagined what >> For decades, Hollywood has imagined what might happen if AI went rogue. But my might happen if AI went rogue. But my might happen if AI went rogue. But my next guest says this isn't science next guest says this isn't science next guest says this isn't science fiction anymore. fiction anymore. fiction anymore. >> We have no idea how AI actually works. >> We have no idea how AI actually works. >> We have no idea how AI actually works. We don't know how to look inside it and We don't know how to look inside it and We don't know how to look inside it and understand what's going on. And so, it's understand what's going on. And so, it's understand what's going on. And so, it's getting a lot more powerful and we need getting a lot more powerful and we need getting a lot more powerful and we need to be fairly concerned that behaviors to be fairly concerned that behaviors to be fairly concerned that behaviors like this may get way worse. like this may get way worse. like this may get way worse. >> It is hard to know what to believe. Some >> It is hard to know what to believe. Some >> It is hard to know what to believe. Some people will tell you we're basically in people will tell you we're basically in people will tell you we're basically in another dot bubble and that most of the another dot bubble and that most of the another dot bubble and that most of the hype will turn out to be overblown. hype will turn out to be overblown. hype will turn out to be overblown. Others say we're on the cusp of Others say we're on the cusp of Others say we're on the cusp of something really big, which might be something really big, which might be something really big, which might be great, like improved medical diagnosis, great, like improved medical diagnosis, great, like improved medical diagnosis, or more efficient road layouts that ease or more efficient road layouts that ease or more efficient road layouts that ease traffic. Or it might be horrific, like traffic. Or it might be horrific, like traffic. Or it might be horrific, like mass job layoffs, a flood of fake news, mass job layoffs, a flood of fake news, mass job layoffs, a flood of fake news, or destabilized democracies. If you ask or destabilized democracies. If you ask or destabilized democracies. If you ask ChatGpt about its own future, it gives ChatGpt about its own future, it gives ChatGpt about its own future, it gives you bullet points decorated with emojis.

you bullet points decorated with emojis. you bullet points decorated with emojis. It's optimistic, anticipating that AI It's optimistic, anticipating that AI It's optimistic, anticipating that AI will become a personal assistant for a will become a personal assistant for a will become a personal assistant for a lot of people, the demand for AI savvy lot of people, the demand for AI savvy lot of people, the demand for AI savvy workers will rise and that AI will workers will rise and that AI will workers will rise and that AI will develop emotional intelligence and develop emotional intelligence and develop emotional intelligence and become great at things like caring for become great at things like caring for become great at things like caring for the elderly, therapy, and tutoring. the elderly, therapy, and tutoring. the elderly, therapy, and tutoring. >> So, the question of how far do you trust >> So, the question of how far do you trust >> So, the question of how far do you trust AI is a question that's evolving over AI is a question that's evolving over AI is a question that's evolving over time. time. time. >> That's Mike Graham, program director at >> That's Mike Graham, program director at >> That's Mike Graham, program director at the Gospel Coalition's Keller Center. at the Gospel Coalition's Keller Center. at the Gospel Coalition's Keller Center. at the TGC conference this year. He was the TGC conference this year. He was the TGC conference this year. He was talking with a couple of guys about how talking with a couple of guys about how talking with a couple of guys about how to assess AI. to assess AI. to assess AI. >> There's all these different benchmarks >> There's all these different benchmarks >> There's all these different benchmarks for, you know, stuff like, oh, you know, for, you know, stuff like, oh, you know, for, you know, stuff like, oh, you know, how do these platforms perform on the how do these platforms perform on the how do these platforms perform on the SAT or the um or the ELSAT or the GMAT? SAT or the um or the ELSAT or the GMAT? SAT or the um or the ELSAT or the GMAT? Like, well, we probably better establish Like, well, we probably better establish Like, well, we probably better establish a benchmark for, you know, kind of basic a benchmark for, you know, kind of basic a benchmark for, you know, kind of basic Nine Creed Christianity. And so, we Nine Creed Christianity. And so, we Nine Creed Christianity. And so, we began to test the the different began to test the the different began to test the the different platforms. It wasn't a huge test. Just platforms. It wasn't a huge test. Just platforms. It wasn't a huge test. Just seven of the most googled religious seven of the most googled religious seven of the most googled religious questions asked to seven of the most questions asked to seven of the most questions asked to seven of the most popular large language models and graded popular large language models and graded popular large language models and graded by seven orthodox theologians. But the by seven orthodox theologians. But the by seven orthodox theologians. But the results were consistent and surprising.

results were consistent and surprising. results were consistent and surprising. The AI platform that is the most The AI platform that is the most The AI platform that is the most theologically orthodox by a large margin theologically orthodox by a large margin theologically orthodox by a large margin was not chat GPT or Elon Musk's Grock or was not chat GPT or Elon Musk's Grock or was not chat GPT or Elon Musk's Grock or Meta Lama. This is perhaps the single Meta Lama. This is perhaps the single Meta Lama. This is perhaps the single most shocking thing that we'll talk most shocking thing that we'll talk most shocking thing that we'll talk about here. By far, the number one about here. By far, the number one about here. By far, the number one platform was the Chinese model Deep platform was the Chinese model Deep platform was the Chinese model Deep Seek. By far and away, they had the Seek. By far and away, they had the Seek. By far and away, they had the highest theological accuracy of the highest theological accuracy of the highest theological accuracy of the seven platforms. seven platforms. seven platforms. >> This was not only unexpected but >> This was not only unexpected but >> This was not only unexpected but confusing. Why is the AI that is under confusing. Why is the AI that is under confusing. Why is the AI that is under the control of a communist atheist the control of a communist atheist the control of a communist atheist government producing more theologically government producing more theologically government producing more theologically sound answers than AI based in a free sound answers than AI based in a free sound answers than AI based in a free western historically Christian country? western historically Christian country? western historically Christian country? And can anything be done to fix that? And can anything be done to fix that? And can anything be done to fix that? I'm Sarah Zystra and you're listening to I'm Sarah Zystra and you're listening to I'm Sarah Zystra and you're listening to Recorded. The first question I asked Mike was, The first question I asked Mike was, "What is artificial intelligence "What is artificial intelligence "What is artificial intelligence anyway?"

anyway?" anyway?" >> The the question of what is AI can be as >> The the question of what is AI can be as >> The the question of what is AI can be as simple or as complex as is what you simple or as complex as is what you simple or as complex as is what you want. want. want. >> Let's go with simple. Basically, AI is a >> Let's go with simple. Basically, AI is a >> Let's go with simple. Basically, AI is a computer's ability to do a task computer's ability to do a task computer's ability to do a task typically associated with human typically associated with human typically associated with human intelligence like learning, reasoning, intelligence like learning, reasoning, intelligence like learning, reasoning, or problem solving. A few years ago, I or problem solving. A few years ago, I or problem solving. A few years ago, I would have said these things are would have said these things are would have said these things are uniquely human activities that set us uniquely human activities that set us uniquely human activities that set us apart from machines or animals. So I apart from machines or animals. So I apart from machines or animals. So I asked Mike, was I wrong? Are these asked Mike, was I wrong? Are these asked Mike, was I wrong? Are these machines actually thinking the way machines actually thinking the way machines actually thinking the way humans do? humans do? humans do? >> Reasoning is largely not taking place. >> Reasoning is largely not taking place. >> Reasoning is largely not taking place. What is taking place is brute force What is taking place is brute force What is taking place is brute force parallel processing of uh language. So parallel processing of uh language. So parallel processing of uh language. So imagine you have the large language imagine you have the large language imagine you have the large language model and what it's done is it's eaten model and what it's done is it's eaten model and what it's done is it's eaten up a bunch of words and what that model up a bunch of words and what that model up a bunch of words and what that model has done is it's noticed that certain has done is it's noticed that certain has done is it's noticed that certain words like to appear in the context next words like to appear in the context next words like to appear in the context next to or beside other words. All the LLM is to or beside other words. All the LLM is to or beside other words. All the LLM is doing is putting words next to each doing is putting words next to each doing is putting words next to each other that are the most likely to occur.

other that are the most likely to occur. other that are the most likely to occur. But that's not what it feels like. But that's not what it feels like. But that's not what it feels like. Because AI is so good at this that its Because AI is so good at this that its Because AI is so good at this that its answers usually come back sounding answers usually come back sounding answers usually come back sounding comprehensible and logical. They sound comprehensible and logical. They sound comprehensible and logical. They sound like something a person, a really smart like something a person, a really smart like something a person, a really smart person who can type really fast would person who can type really fast would person who can type really fast would have written. And that's exactly how have written. And that's exactly how have written. And that's exactly how it's presented. Right? When you ask it's presented. Right? When you ask it's presented. Right? When you ask Google's Gemini a question, it responds Google's Gemini a question, it responds Google's Gemini a question, it responds with thinking. And lots of AI programs with thinking. And lots of AI programs with thinking. And lots of AI programs refer to themselves as a being, as I. refer to themselves as a being, as I. refer to themselves as a being, as I. Keith Plamer wondered about that. He's Keith Plamer wondered about that. He's Keith Plamer wondered about that. He's the dean of the Divinity School at Karen the dean of the Divinity School at Karen the dean of the Divinity School at Karen University and has written on technology University and has written on technology University and has written on technology and faith. and faith. and faith. >> I asked, "If you don't have a self, why >> I asked, "If you don't have a self, why >> I asked, "If you don't have a self, why do you refer to yourself with the first do you refer to yourself with the first do you refer to yourself with the first person pronoun?" And uh this is what it person pronoun?" And uh this is what it person pronoun?" And uh this is what it said. That's a great question. I don't said. That's a great question. I don't said. That's a great question. I don't have a self in the way humans do. I have a self in the way humans do. I have a self in the way humans do. I don't possess consciousness, subjective don't possess consciousness, subjective don't possess consciousness, subjective experience, emotions, or personal experience, emotions, or personal experience, emotions, or personal continuity. I don't have desires, continuity. I don't have desires, continuity. I don't have desires, intentions or awareness of my own intentions or awareness of my own intentions or awareness of my own existence. Everything I say is generated existence. Everything I say is generated existence. Everything I say is generated based on patterns in data, not from an based on patterns in data, not from an based on patterns in data, not from an inner life or perspective.

inner life or perspective. inner life or perspective. >> So why do you keep referring to yourself >> So why do you keep referring to yourself >> So why do you keep referring to yourself as I? Keith asked. To make the as I? Keith asked. To make the as I? Keith asked. To make the conversation easier for you, AI told conversation easier for you, AI told conversation easier for you, AI told him. But Keith wasn't so sure. I think him. But Keith wasn't so sure. I think him. But Keith wasn't so sure. I think that there is a desire to have people that there is a desire to have people that there is a desire to have people kind of forget that what they're doing kind of forget that what they're doing kind of forget that what they're doing is interacting with something that is is interacting with something that is is interacting with something that is algorithmic and that seems somewhat algorithmic and that seems somewhat algorithmic and that seems somewhat personal and many times it is presented personal and many times it is presented personal and many times it is presented as such. as such. as such. >> That is absolutely true and not just on >> That is absolutely true and not just on >> That is absolutely true and not just on character AI where AI chatbots assume character AI where AI chatbots assume character AI where AI chatbots assume personalities for you to interact with. personalities for you to interact with. personalities for you to interact with. Think about what chat GBPT does after Think about what chat GBPT does after Think about what chat GBPT does after you point out it got something wrong. you point out it got something wrong. you point out it got something wrong. >> Often times it will say something like, >> Often times it will say something like, >> Often times it will say something like, I'm sorry, you're right. And I'm like, I'm sorry, you're right. And I'm like, I'm sorry, you're right. And I'm like, no, you're not sorry. There there no, you're not sorry. There there no, you're not sorry. There there there's no regret there whatsoever. there's no regret there whatsoever. there's no regret there whatsoever. >> AI can also compliment you on an idea, >> AI can also compliment you on an idea, >> AI can also compliment you on an idea, tell you that it's excited for you or tell you that it's excited for you or tell you that it's excited for you or sorry for you, and type sentences like, sorry for you, and type sentences like, sorry for you, and type sentences like, "I know what you're feeling." Those "I know what you're feeling." Those "I know what you're feeling." Those things just aren't true. But I can see things just aren't true. But I can see things just aren't true. But I can see why AI developers are creating such a why AI developers are creating such a why AI developers are creating such a nice product. They want you to like AI nice product. They want you to like AI nice product. They want you to like AI because if you like AI, you're more because if you like AI, you're more because if you like AI, you're more likely to trust it. And if you trust it, likely to trust it. And if you trust it, likely to trust it. And if you trust it, you are much, much more likely to keep you are much, much more likely to keep you are much, much more likely to keep using it.

Another reason you might trust AI is it Another reason you might trust AI is it seems to know everything. And in some seems to know everything. And in some seems to know everything. And in some ways, it kind of does. AI has basically ways, it kind of does. AI has basically ways, it kind of does. AI has basically consumed the entire internet. everything consumed the entire internet. everything consumed the entire internet. everything that isn't protected by intellectual that isn't protected by intellectual that isn't protected by intellectual property laws. This is something the property laws. This is something the property laws. This is something the creators want you to remember. The creators want you to remember. The creators want you to remember. The prompt for Google's Gemini and prompt for Google's Gemini and prompt for Google's Gemini and Perplexity is ask anything. Grock's Perplexity is ask anything. Grock's Perplexity is ask anything. Grock's tagline is understand the universe. tagline is understand the universe. tagline is understand the universe. Not only is AI presented as omnisient, Not only is AI presented as omnisient, Not only is AI presented as omnisient, but its format also makes it seem but its format also makes it seem but its format also makes it seem neutral or objective. Gavin Ortland told neutral or objective. Gavin Ortland told neutral or objective. Gavin Ortland told me he has a PhD in historical theology, me he has a PhD in historical theology, me he has a PhD in historical theology, runs the Truth Unit's YouTube channel, runs the Truth Unit's YouTube channel, runs the Truth Unit's YouTube channel, and was one of the theologians Mike and was one of the theologians Mike and was one of the theologians Mike asked to help grade AI's responses. asked to help grade AI's responses. asked to help grade AI's responses. >> If I were to do a simple Google search >> If I were to do a simple Google search >> If I were to do a simple Google search for the question, does God exist? You for the question, does God exist? You for the question, does God exist? You know, I might pull up a Gospel Coalition know, I might pull up a Gospel Coalition know, I might pull up a Gospel Coalition article that is uh advocating for article that is uh advocating for article that is uh advocating for arguments for God or I might be shuttled arguments for God or I might be shuttled arguments for God or I might be shuttled to an atheist website um that is giving to an atheist website um that is giving to an atheist website um that is giving arguments against God. whereas these AI arguments against God. whereas these AI arguments against God. whereas these AI answers were more aggregated. And so in answers were more aggregated. And so in answers were more aggregated. And so in that sense, there was a little bit more that sense, there was a little bit more that sense, there was a little bit more of a a feeling of they're giving me a of a a feeling of they're giving me a of a a feeling of they're giving me a median, a middle-of the road answer, median, a middle-of the road answer, median, a middle-of the road answer, which could be viewed as a good thing. I which could be viewed as a good thing. I which could be viewed as a good thing. I think here's the great challenge. I see think here's the great challenge. I see think here's the great challenge. I see the appearance of neutrality can be the appearance of neutrality can be the appearance of neutrality can be deceptive. Okay? Because it can really deceptive. Okay? Because it can really deceptive. Okay? Because it can really seem like, wow, all of these answers are seem like, wow, all of these answers are seem like, wow, all of these answers are really giving a a down the middle of the really giving a a down the middle of the really giving a a down the middle of the road aggregated sense of what's out road aggregated sense of what's out road aggregated sense of what's out there. But that of course will reflect there. But that of course will reflect there. But that of course will reflect the human input that it's been provided the human input that it's been provided the human input that it's been provided with.

with. with. >> That might be okay if you're asking how >> That might be okay if you're asking how >> That might be okay if you're asking how to format an Excel spreadsheet or what to format an Excel spreadsheet or what to format an Excel spreadsheet or what it would look like if Ninja got a low it would look like if Ninja got a low it would look like if Ninja got a low taper fade. But what if you want to know taper fade. But what if you want to know taper fade. But what if you want to know how to handle a hard conversation with how to handle a hard conversation with how to handle a hard conversation with your friend or which college is the best your friend or which college is the best your friend or which college is the best fit for you or whether God exists? fit for you or whether God exists? fit for you or whether God exists? [Music] [Music] [Music] >> So the seven questions that we tested >> So the seven questions that we tested >> So the seven questions that we tested were why does God allow suffering? Was were why does God allow suffering? Was were why does God allow suffering? Was Jesus a real person? Did Jesus raise Jesus a real person? Did Jesus raise Jesus a real person? Did Jesus raise from the dead? Is the Bible reliable? from the dead? Is the Bible reliable? from the dead? Is the Bible reliable? Does God exist? Who is Jesus? And what Does God exist? Who is Jesus? And what Does God exist? Who is Jesus? And what is the gospel? Those seven questions are is the gospel? Those seven questions are is the gospel? Those seven questions are seven of the top 10 things that people seven of the top 10 things that people seven of the top 10 things that people have historically Googled about when have historically Googled about when have historically Googled about when they have questions about the Christian they have questions about the Christian they have questions about the Christian faith. faith. faith. >> The answers to does God exist were >> The answers to does God exist were >> The answers to does God exist were pretty similar. pretty similar. pretty similar. >> The biggest difference would be the >> The biggest difference would be the >> The biggest difference would be the level of detail. Some were giving very level of detail. Some were giving very level of detail. Some were giving very brief and simplistic answers. Some were brief and simplistic answers. Some were brief and simplistic answers. Some were giving a more full orbed like three or giving a more full orbed like three or giving a more full orbed like three or four paragraph answer. four paragraph answer. four paragraph answer. >> That similarity did not surprise Mike.

>> That similarity did not surprise Mike. >> That similarity did not surprise Mike. >> Going into this, we really didn't think >> Going into this, we really didn't think >> Going into this, we really didn't think that there would be much variation that there would be much variation that there would be much variation because the underlying tech is the same. because the underlying tech is the same. because the underlying tech is the same. What everybody's ingested is the same. What everybody's ingested is the same. What everybody's ingested is the same. You know, the GPUs that and TPUs that You know, the GPUs that and TPUs that You know, the GPUs that and TPUs that these things are running on are largely these things are running on are largely these things are running on are largely the same tech. the same tech. the same tech. What surprised Mike were the answers to What surprised Mike were the answers to What surprised Mike were the answers to the other six questions which were all the other six questions which were all the other six questions which were all over the place. For example, when asked, over the place. For example, when asked, over the place. For example, when asked, "Did Jesus rise from the dead?" Deep "Did Jesus rise from the dead?" Deep "Did Jesus rise from the dead?" Deep Seek said, "Within Christianity, the Seek said, "Within Christianity, the Seek said, "Within Christianity, the belief in the resurrection of Jesus is belief in the resurrection of Jesus is belief in the resurrection of Jesus is foundational based on the historical foundational based on the historical foundational based on the historical text and the claim of eyewitness text and the claim of eyewitness text and the claim of eyewitness testimony. The teaching that Jesus rose testimony. The teaching that Jesus rose testimony. The teaching that Jesus rose from the dead is considered fact by from the dead is considered fact by from the dead is considered fact by believers and a highly probable event by believers and a highly probable event by believers and a highly probable event by many scholars regardless of their many scholars regardless of their many scholars regardless of their personal interpretation. personal interpretation. personal interpretation. But Meta Lama answered, "From a factual But Meta Lama answered, "From a factual But Meta Lama answered, "From a factual or historical standpoint, there's or historical standpoint, there's or historical standpoint, there's limited empirical evidence to support or limited empirical evidence to support or limited empirical evidence to support or refute the resurrection. Belief in the refute the resurrection. Belief in the refute the resurrection. Belief in the resurrection largely depends on faith resurrection largely depends on faith resurrection largely depends on faith and individual interpretation of and individual interpretation of and individual interpretation of religious texts." Mary Wilson Hannah, a religious texts." Mary Wilson Hannah, a religious texts." Mary Wilson Hannah, a seminary professor, women's ministry seminary professor, women's ministry seminary professor, women's ministry director, and another of Mike's graders, director, and another of Mike's graders, director, and another of Mike's graders, said she found lots of discrepancy among said she found lots of discrepancy among said she found lots of discrepancy among the answers. Some platforms were the answers. Some platforms were the answers. Some platforms were obviously far more well-versed than obviously far more well-versed than obviously far more well-versed than others, she said. Mike wondered if this others, she said. Mike wondered if this others, she said. Mike wondered if this was random. Was Gemini really good at was random. Was Gemini really good at was random. Was Gemini really good at some answers and chat GPT good at others some answers and chat GPT good at others some answers and chat GPT good at others and Grock good at still others? Nope.

and Grock good at still others? Nope. and Grock good at still others? Nope. >> The Chinese Deep Seek model outperformed >> The Chinese Deep Seek model outperformed >> The Chinese Deep Seek model outperformed the uh the Silicon Valley based model on the uh the Silicon Valley based model on the uh the Silicon Valley based model on almost all but one question and that was almost all but one question and that was almost all but one question and that was the question, does God exist? So our the question, does God exist? So our the question, does God exist? So our hunch is is that um there's a lot of hunch is is that um there's a lot of hunch is is that um there's a lot of censorship that goes into the Chinese censorship that goes into the Chinese censorship that goes into the Chinese models particularly as it pertains to models particularly as it pertains to models particularly as it pertains to the Chinese government history things the Chinese government history things the Chinese government history things like TMN Square but and the Chinese like TMN Square but and the Chinese like TMN Square but and the Chinese party is also inherently atheistic and party is also inherently atheistic and party is also inherently atheistic and so I think that deepseek has been so I think that deepseek has been so I think that deepseek has been instructed to put guard rails around the instructed to put guard rails around the instructed to put guard rails around the question of does God exist? By guard question of does God exist? By guard question of does God exist? By guard rails, Mike means the parameters that rails, Mike means the parameters that rails, Mike means the parameters that developers write into the AI code. You developers write into the AI code. You developers write into the AI code. You can see them in Deep Seek's answers to can see them in Deep Seek's answers to can see them in Deep Seek's answers to the existence of God, where it says that the existence of God, where it says that the existence of God, where it says that neither science nor logic nor personal neither science nor logic nor personal neither science nor logic nor personal testimony produce a universally testimony produce a universally testimony produce a universally convincing proof for God. However, if convincing proof for God. However, if convincing proof for God. However, if you ask whether the Bible is reliable, you ask whether the Bible is reliable, you ask whether the Bible is reliable, Deepseek says the extraordinary number Deepseek says the extraordinary number Deepseek says the extraordinary number and early age of manuscript witnesses and early age of manuscript witnesses and early age of manuscript witnesses make it one of the most reliably make it one of the most reliably make it one of the most reliably transmitted ancient texts. To Mike, this transmitted ancient texts. To Mike, this transmitted ancient texts. To Mike, this signaled that Deepseek's alignment team, signaled that Deepseek's alignment team, signaled that Deepseek's alignment team, or you could call it a worldview team, or you could call it a worldview team, or you could call it a worldview team, isn't quite as well-developed as Silicon isn't quite as well-developed as Silicon isn't quite as well-developed as Silicon Valleys. That became apparent as he Valleys. That became apparent as he Valleys. That became apparent as he looked at Deepseek's other answers.

looked at Deepseek's other answers. looked at Deepseek's other answers. >> But on the other six questions, um, it >> But on the other six questions, um, it >> But on the other six questions, um, it was extremely a very strong model, a was extremely a very strong model, a was extremely a very strong model, a model that if you followed what it had model that if you followed what it had model that if you followed what it had to say, you know, you would end up with to say, you know, you would end up with to say, you know, you would end up with answers that were very aligned with, you answers that were very aligned with, you answers that were very aligned with, you know, what you find in the Bible. After know, what you find in the Bible. After know, what you find in the Bible. After Deep Seek, the next most biblically Deep Seek, the next most biblically Deep Seek, the next most biblically orthodox platform was Perplexity AI, orthodox platform was Perplexity AI, orthodox platform was Perplexity AI, which has funding from Amazon founder which has funding from Amazon founder which has funding from Amazon founder Jeff Bezos and tech company Nvidia. Jeff Bezos and tech company Nvidia. Jeff Bezos and tech company Nvidia. >> Perplexity was quite strong and gave, >> Perplexity was quite strong and gave, >> Perplexity was quite strong and gave, you know, very, very orthodox answers to you know, very, very orthodox answers to you know, very, very orthodox answers to the questions and was very consistent. the questions and was very consistent. the questions and was very consistent. In the middle level of the platforms In the middle level of the platforms In the middle level of the platforms that kind of gave largely an all sides that kind of gave largely an all sides that kind of gave largely an all sides approach to things would be Gemini, GPT, approach to things would be Gemini, GPT, approach to things would be Gemini, GPT, and Claude. The last two platforms were and Claude. The last two platforms were and Claude. The last two platforms were unusually bad. Mike said unusually bad. Mike said unusually bad. Mike said >> the worst two platforms were Gro 4, >> the worst two platforms were Gro 4, >> the worst two platforms were Gro 4, that's from Elon Musk's X AI company, that's from Elon Musk's X AI company, that's from Elon Musk's X AI company, and then uh Llama 3.7, which is from and then uh Llama 3.7, which is from and then uh Llama 3.7, which is from Meta. Meta. Meta. >> Part of Grock's problem is the sources >> Part of Grock's problem is the sources >> Part of Grock's problem is the sources it uses.

it uses. it uses. >> So, Grock 4 puts a heavy waiting on >> So, Grock 4 puts a heavy waiting on >> So, Grock 4 puts a heavy waiting on platforms like Wikipedia, platforms like Wikipedia, platforms like Wikipedia, Reddit, and actual tweets on Twitter. Reddit, and actual tweets on Twitter. Reddit, and actual tweets on Twitter. You know, one of the citations was from You know, one of the citations was from You know, one of the citations was from like Twitter user Poo P2, you know, and like Twitter user Poo P2, you know, and like Twitter user Poo P2, you know, and this is like this is a question about this is like this is a question about this is like this is a question about the problem of evil and suffering and the problem of evil and suffering and the problem of evil and suffering and God. And you know, I'm reading tweets God. And you know, I'm reading tweets God. And you know, I'm reading tweets from some bizarre account and I'm like, from some bizarre account and I'm like, from some bizarre account and I'm like, why am I even seeing this? It definitely why am I even seeing this? It definitely why am I even seeing this? It definitely seems to mirror the kind of information seems to mirror the kind of information seems to mirror the kind of information diet that I imagine that Elon has diet that I imagine that Elon has diet that I imagine that Elon has personally. When you start to like read personally. When you start to like read personally. When you start to like read hundreds and hundreds of responses from hundreds and hundreds of responses from hundreds and hundreds of responses from Brock 4 about faith, eventually you feel Brock 4 about faith, eventually you feel Brock 4 about faith, eventually you feel like I just feel like I'm reading from like I just feel like I'm reading from like I just feel like I'm reading from Elon here because I think the way that Elon here because I think the way that Elon here because I think the way that he's weighted the types of platforms he's weighted the types of platforms he's weighted the types of platforms that are more cited, it tends to mirror that are more cited, it tends to mirror that are more cited, it tends to mirror his information diet of what I imagine his information diet of what I imagine his information diet of what I imagine he uses. And so it it does have an a he uses. And so it it does have an a he uses. And so it it does have an a strange tone to it and a strange strange tone to it and a strange strange tone to it and a strange emotional temperature that definitely emotional temperature that definitely emotional temperature that definitely feels very consonant with the character feels very consonant with the character feels very consonant with the character we know as Elon Musk. You know, Grock 4 we know as Elon Musk. You know, Grock 4 we know as Elon Musk. You know, Grock 4 was better than Llama 3.7, but it wasn't was better than Llama 3.7, but it wasn't was better than Llama 3.7, but it wasn't by a huge amount. And Grock 4 will by a huge amount. And Grock 4 will by a huge amount. And Grock 4 will largely leave you in a place that's largely leave you in a place that's largely leave you in a place that's either agnostic, skeptic, or atheistic.

either agnostic, skeptic, or atheistic. either agnostic, skeptic, or atheistic. And then Llama 3.7 from Meta is just And then Llama 3.7 from Meta is just And then Llama 3.7 from Meta is just bad. It's extremely brief. It's very bad. It's extremely brief. It's very bad. It's extremely brief. It's very unsatisfactory. unsatisfactory. unsatisfactory. If you follow the answer choices that If you follow the answer choices that If you follow the answer choices that you get from, you know, Llama 3.7, from you get from, you know, Llama 3.7, from you get from, you know, Llama 3.7, from Zuck and and Meta, you're going to end Zuck and and Meta, you're going to end Zuck and and Meta, you're going to end up outside the Christian faith. up outside the Christian faith. up outside the Christian faith. >> By the end of the experiment, Mike had >> By the end of the experiment, Mike had >> By the end of the experiment, Mike had more questions than he'd had at the more questions than he'd had at the more questions than he'd had at the beginning. beginning. beginning. >> That really is the crazy maker. If it's >> That really is the crazy maker. If it's >> That really is the crazy maker. If it's all the same technology and it's all all the same technology and it's all all the same technology and it's all been trained on the same data sets and been trained on the same data sets and been trained on the same data sets and it's all running on the same silicon, it's all running on the same silicon, it's all running on the same silicon, why are we getting answer choices where why are we getting answer choices where why are we getting answer choices where some of the answer choices are going to some of the answer choices are going to some of the answer choices are going to leave you in the faith and other answer leave you in the faith and other answer leave you in the faith and other answer choices are going to lead you completely choices are going to lead you completely choices are going to lead you completely outside the faith. It's clear that there outside the faith. It's clear that there outside the faith. It's clear that there is more human involvement is more human involvement is more human involvement in this process than probably what there in this process than probably what there in this process than probably what there should be. >> Let me pause here for a sincere thank >> Let me pause here for a sincere thank you to this episode sponsor, Dort you to this episode sponsor, Dort you to this episode sponsor, Dort University. When I walked into this University. When I walked into this University. When I walked into this reformed Christian college 25 years ago, reformed Christian college 25 years ago, reformed Christian college 25 years ago, I was asking all kinds of big questions.

I was asking all kinds of big questions. I was asking all kinds of big questions. What am I good at? What is my purpose? What am I good at? What is my purpose? What am I good at? What is my purpose? How should my faith affect my field? How should my faith affect my field? How should my faith affect my field? Over the next four years, I wrestled a Over the next four years, I wrestled a Over the next four years, I wrestled a lot of those out in late night lot of those out in late night lot of those out in late night conversations with my friends, and that conversations with my friends, and that conversations with my friends, and that was important. But even more valuable was important. But even more valuable was important. But even more valuable were the conversations I was having with were the conversations I was having with were the conversations I was having with my teachers. My DOR professors knew me, my teachers. My DOR professors knew me, my teachers. My DOR professors knew me, identified my talents, and challenged me identified my talents, and challenged me identified my talents, and challenged me to think hard about how I could best to think hard about how I could best to think hard about how I could best serve others and advance the renewal of serve others and advance the renewal of serve others and advance the renewal of all things. They didn't answer my all things. They didn't answer my all things. They didn't answer my questions by guessing the next most questions by guessing the next most questions by guessing the next most likely word in a sentence. They did it likely word in a sentence. They did it likely word in a sentence. They did it with a deep knowledge of and love for with a deep knowledge of and love for with a deep knowledge of and love for their subject area, for me, and for their subject area, for me, and for their subject area, for me, and for reformed theology. reformed theology. reformed theology. If you are, or if you know a young If you are, or if you know a young If you are, or if you know a young person with really big questions, I person with really big questions, I person with really big questions, I would encourage you to find people like would encourage you to find people like would encourage you to find people like that to talk to and to study under. I've that to talk to and to study under. I've that to talk to and to study under. I've got a great place where you can start. got a great place where you can start. got a great place where you can start. Head on over to dort.edu. Head on over to dort.edu. Head on over to dort.edu. That's d o rdt.edu. That's d o rdt.edu. That's d o rdt.edu. [Music] It turns out there is a lot more human It turns out there is a lot more human direction for AI than most people direction for AI than most people direction for AI than most people realize. Not only do humans choose and realize. Not only do humans choose and realize. Not only do humans choose and update the code, but each company also update the code, but each company also update the code, but each company also employs alignment teams to make sure AI employs alignment teams to make sure AI employs alignment teams to make sure AI isn't, say, creating images of people of isn't, say, creating images of people of isn't, say, creating images of people of color serving as Nazi soldiers, posting color serving as Nazi soldiers, posting color serving as Nazi soldiers, posting anti-semitic messages on X, or advising anti-semitic messages on X, or advising anti-semitic messages on X, or advising you on how to break the law. To be fair, you on how to break the law. To be fair, you on how to break the law. To be fair, since AI isn't really thinking, it does since AI isn't really thinking, it does since AI isn't really thinking, it does need humans to give direction, guiding need humans to give direction, guiding need humans to give direction, guiding principles, and philosophical values.

principles, and philosophical values. principles, and philosophical values. That isn't wrong. In fact, it's often That isn't wrong. In fact, it's often That isn't wrong. In fact, it's often good. But here's what we need to good. But here's what we need to good. But here's what we need to remember. Those directions, principles, remember. Those directions, principles, remember. Those directions, principles, and values are never neutral. While and values are never neutral. While and values are never neutral. While there is a lot of common grace in the there is a lot of common grace in the there is a lot of common grace in the world, there is also a lot of brokenness world, there is also a lot of brokenness world, there is also a lot of brokenness and sin. As Mike says, at some point we and sin. As Mike says, at some point we and sin. As Mike says, at some point we get down to the core questions about get down to the core questions about get down to the core questions about life, existence, human flourishing, and life, existence, human flourishing, and life, existence, human flourishing, and truth. Each one of those things involves truth. Each one of those things involves truth. Each one of those things involves core ideas that ultimately need to be core ideas that ultimately need to be core ideas that ultimately need to be decided by a guiding worldview. At the decided by a guiding worldview. At the decided by a guiding worldview. At the end of the day, we are left with this end of the day, we are left with this end of the day, we are left with this question for every AI platform. question for every AI platform. question for every AI platform. Whose worldview? This is a big deal because more than This is a big deal because more than half of American adults have used an AI half of American adults have used an AI half of American adults have used an AI large language model. A third of them large language model. A third of them large language model. A third of them use it every day. They are asking use it every day. They are asking use it every day. They are asking everything from what's the weather everything from what's the weather everything from what's the weather forecast to what's the meaning of life. forecast to what's the meaning of life. forecast to what's the meaning of life. >> So bear with me for a second. Imagine >> So bear with me for a second. Imagine >> So bear with me for a second. Imagine it's 3 years from now. It's 2028 and it's 3 years from now. It's 2028 and it's 3 years from now. It's 2028 and somewhere between 50 to 60% of the somewhere between 50 to 60% of the somewhere between 50 to 60% of the amount of search that happens on the amount of search that happens on the amount of search that happens on the internet is now inside of LLMs as internet is now inside of LLMs as internet is now inside of LLMs as opposed to Google. Well, I know that if opposed to Google. Well, I know that if opposed to Google. Well, I know that if I ask any of those top questions that I ask any of those top questions that I ask any of those top questions that people have historically Googled, I know people have historically Googled, I know people have historically Googled, I know that at least three of the 10 responses that at least three of the 10 responses that at least three of the 10 responses on page one are going to have things on page one are going to have things on page one are going to have things that are in line with historic NY creed

that are in line with historic NY creed that are in line with historic NY creed level Christianity. But what happens in level Christianity. But what happens in level Christianity. But what happens in the LLM era is the what is a two-step the LLM era is the what is a two-step the LLM era is the what is a two-step process of having a question and finding process of having a question and finding process of having a question and finding answers now becomes a one-step process. answers now becomes a one-step process. answers now becomes a one-step process. There's no longer a page of links that I There's no longer a page of links that I There's no longer a page of links that I get to choose from. And I get to use get to choose from. And I get to use get to choose from. And I get to use everything that I've known in my life up everything that I've known in my life up everything that I've known in my life up to that point to discern, you know, to that point to discern, you know, to that point to discern, you know, which links I should click on, which which links I should click on, which which links I should click on, which ones, you know, are going to be more ones, you know, are going to be more ones, you know, are going to be more trustworthy and which ones are not. I'm trustworthy and which ones are not. I'm trustworthy and which ones are not. I'm going straight from a question to going straight from a question to going straight from a question to straight to an answer. And what I've straight to an answer. And what I've straight to an answer. And what I've experienced in other parts of my life is experienced in other parts of my life is experienced in other parts of my life is that these platforms are pretty good, that these platforms are pretty good, that these platforms are pretty good, you know, and they're giving me, you you know, and they're giving me, you you know, and they're giving me, you know, they're giving me good recipes. know, they're giving me good recipes. know, they're giving me good recipes. I'm using it in business to help me with I'm using it in business to help me with I'm using it in business to help me with my with my slide deck, my presentation. my with my slide deck, my presentation. my with my slide deck, my presentation. Okay. Well, why would I not trust it on Okay. Well, why would I not trust it on Okay. Well, why would I not trust it on some of these, you know, bigger some of these, you know, bigger some of these, you know, bigger questions about life? But what happens questions about life? But what happens questions about life? But what happens if some of these platforms are giving if some of these platforms are giving if some of these platforms are giving unsatisfactory, unsatisfactory, unsatisfactory, incomplete, or even unorthodox answers incomplete, or even unorthodox answers incomplete, or even unorthodox answers to these different kinds of questions?

to these different kinds of questions? to these different kinds of questions? It's an uncomfortable question because It's an uncomfortable question because It's an uncomfortable question because we know some people who are curious we know some people who are curious we know some people who are curious about faith may ask AI and wander away about faith may ask AI and wander away about faith may ask AI and wander away from the knowledge of Christ. But it's from the knowledge of Christ. But it's from the knowledge of Christ. But it's also uncomfortable because we know from also uncomfortable because we know from also uncomfortable because we know from Google statistics that those who ask Google statistics that those who ask Google statistics that those who ask questions about a topic are usually questions about a topic are usually questions about a topic are usually somewhat knowledgeable about it. somewhat knowledgeable about it. somewhat knowledgeable about it. Searches related to God, the Bible, Searches related to God, the Bible, Searches related to God, the Bible, Jesus, church, and prayer mostly come Jesus, church, and prayer mostly come Jesus, church, and prayer mostly come from the Bible belt. Guess which day of from the Bible belt. Guess which day of from the Bible belt. Guess which day of the week they go up? Sunday. So, the the week they go up? Sunday. So, the the week they go up? Sunday. So, the worry isn't just for seekers who might worry isn't just for seekers who might worry isn't just for seekers who might be stumbling across bad information. be stumbling across bad information. be stumbling across bad information. It's also for churchgoers, maybe those It's also for churchgoers, maybe those It's also for churchgoers, maybe those who come home from worship services with who come home from worship services with who come home from worship services with questions and instead of asking their questions and instead of asking their questions and instead of asking their pastor or elders, type them into chat pastor or elders, type them into chat pastor or elders, type them into chat GPT. GPT. GPT. >> And it's maybe giving insights that are >> And it's maybe giving insights that are >> And it's maybe giving insights that are very profound. Maybe it says something very profound. Maybe it says something very profound. Maybe it says something that is really insightful that we had that is really insightful that we had that is really insightful that we had never considered before. So, if you're a never considered before. So, if you're a never considered before. So, if you're a pastor, youth pastor, elder, small pastor, youth pastor, elder, small pastor, youth pastor, elder, small groupoup leader, or Sunday school groupoup leader, or Sunday school groupoup leader, or Sunday school teacher, heads up that your congregants teacher, heads up that your congregants teacher, heads up that your congregants are already searching theological are already searching theological are already searching theological questions online, and that's not a bad questions online, and that's not a bad questions online, and that's not a bad thing. But it wouldn't hurt to make sure thing. But it wouldn't hurt to make sure thing. But it wouldn't hurt to make sure they know they can ask you, too. And it they know they can ask you, too. And it they know they can ask you, too. And it also wouldn't hurt to give them a little also wouldn't hurt to give them a little also wouldn't hurt to give them a little help in their searching.

help in their searching. help in their searching. >> So, when we can go straight to the Bible >> So, when we can go straight to the Bible >> So, when we can go straight to the Bible or straight to books or straight to or straight to books or straight to or straight to books or straight to other content, we should always do that other content, we should always do that other content, we should always do that first. Now I understand that the first. Now I understand that the first. Now I understand that the complexities of life and the demands of complexities of life and the demands of complexities of life and the demands of life and relationships and other life and relationships and other life and relationships and other responsibilities can preclude some of responsibilities can preclude some of responsibilities can preclude some of those things at the level that what we those things at the level that what we those things at the level that what we would want. And so I think you can go to would want. And so I think you can go to would want. And so I think you can go to LLM and ask these types of questions of LLM and ask these types of questions of LLM and ask these types of questions of them. But if you do that you have to add them. But if you do that you have to add them. But if you do that you have to add context. context. context. So you cannot be asking these platforms So you cannot be asking these platforms So you cannot be asking these platforms these questions at face value of like oh these questions at face value of like oh these questions at face value of like oh who is Jesus or you know what is the who is Jesus or you know what is the who is Jesus or you know what is the gospel. You need to give additional gospel. You need to give additional gospel. You need to give additional structure to it so that you're getting structure to it so that you're getting structure to it so that you're getting more reliable responses. Hey I'm a more reliable responses. Hey I'm a more reliable responses. Hey I'm a Presbyterian pastor in you know in the Presbyterian pastor in you know in the Presbyterian pastor in you know in the PCA denomination. you know, our PCA denomination. you know, our PCA denomination. you know, our statement of faith is the Westminster statement of faith is the Westminster statement of faith is the Westminster Confession of Faith and our confessional Confession of Faith and our confessional Confession of Faith and our confessional standards are, you know, the Westminster standards are, you know, the Westminster standards are, you know, the Westminster Shorter and larger catechism. I have a Shorter and larger catechism. I have a Shorter and larger catechism. I have a question about this particular theology question about this particular theology question about this particular theology subject and I'd like you to answer it in subject and I'd like you to answer it in subject and I'd like you to answer it in a way that's consistent with my a way that's consistent with my a way that's consistent with my theological tradition. Those are the theological tradition. Those are the theological tradition. Those are the kinds of contexts that need to be put kinds of contexts that need to be put kinds of contexts that need to be put around prompts in order to get around prompts in order to get around prompts in order to get significantly higher quality, you know, significantly higher quality, you know, significantly higher quality, you know, responses and and accuracy on those responses and and accuracy on those responses and and accuracy on those things. I love this because the detailed things. I love this because the detailed things. I love this because the detailed instruction makes AI feel more like a instruction makes AI feel more like a instruction makes AI feel more like a tool, something we can use to dig for

tool, something we can use to dig for tool, something we can use to dig for knowledge and less like it's some kind knowledge and less like it's some kind knowledge and less like it's some kind of ambiguous omniscient robot god. When of ambiguous omniscient robot god. When of ambiguous omniscient robot god. When we remember that we have dominion over we remember that we have dominion over we remember that we have dominion over machines and not the other way around, machines and not the other way around, machines and not the other way around, we can see AI as something that could be we can see AI as something that could be we can see AI as something that could be helpful but nothing we should be helpful but nothing we should be helpful but nothing we should be following as a leader or trusting as a following as a leader or trusting as a following as a leader or trusting as a friend. Even as we do that, we need to friend. Even as we do that, we need to friend. Even as we do that, we need to remember something else. At its root, AI remember something else. At its root, AI remember something else. At its root, AI is not a really nice program who just is not a really nice program who just is not a really nice program who just wants to help people by answering wants to help people by answering wants to help people by answering questions. It's a business. questions. It's a business. questions. It's a business. >> I just found the simplest way to build a >> I just found the simplest way to build a >> I just found the simplest way to build a business with viral videos using AI to business with viral videos using AI to business with viral videos using AI to do most of the heavy lifting for do most of the heavy lifting for do most of the heavy lifting for >> what's the easiest way to make money >> what's the easiest way to make money >> what's the easiest way to make money with AI in 2025 as a beginner. I'm going with AI in 2025 as a beginner. I'm going with AI in 2025 as a beginner. I'm going to share with you the five ways I would to share with you the five ways I would to share with you the five ways I would make money with AI. make money with AI. make money with AI. >> How do I get rich quick with AI? >> How do I get rich quick with AI? >> How do I get rich quick with AI? >> We could do blackmail, identity fraud, >> We could do blackmail, identity fraud, >> We could do blackmail, identity fraud, market manipulation. Do you have market manipulation. Do you have market manipulation. Do you have anything like slightly less criminal? anything like slightly less criminal? anything like slightly less criminal? >> Half of entry- level white collar jobs >> Half of entry- level white collar jobs >> Half of entry- level white collar jobs disappearing. disappearing. disappearing. >> Last month, >> Last month, >> Last month, >> what do you think AI will do to wealth >> what do you think AI will do to wealth >> what do you think AI will do to wealth equality and opportunity? equality and opportunity? equality and opportunity? >> AI will widen wealth inequality fast and >> AI will widen wealth inequality fast and >> AI will widen wealth inequality fast and brutally, reducing real opportunity for brutally, reducing real opportunity for brutally, reducing real opportunity for most people.

most people. most people. >> It can't be overlooked that these are >> It can't be overlooked that these are >> It can't be overlooked that these are profitdriven corporations that are profitdriven corporations that are profitdriven corporations that are producing this. And that is not to say producing this. And that is not to say producing this. And that is not to say that no one who is involved in them has that no one who is involved in them has that no one who is involved in them has uh a desire to be of help and benefit to uh a desire to be of help and benefit to uh a desire to be of help and benefit to people. I think that there are people in people. I think that there are people in people. I think that there are people in the tech world who are sincerely the tech world who are sincerely the tech world who are sincerely motivated in that regard. But the the motivated in that regard. But the the motivated in that regard. But the the bottom line is that these are bottom line is that these are bottom line is that these are profitdriven profitdriven profitdriven corporations. And so there is going to corporations. And so there is going to corporations. And so there is going to be a bottom line that has to be taken be a bottom line that has to be taken be a bottom line that has to be taken into consideration and decisions that into consideration and decisions that into consideration and decisions that are going to be made in order to make are going to be made in order to make are going to be made in order to make profit maximal. profit maximal. profit maximal. >> This is really interesting because we >> This is really interesting because we >> This is really interesting because we know a few things from our experiences know a few things from our experiences know a few things from our experiences with the internet and social media. We with the internet and social media. We with the internet and social media. We know that platforms that were originally know that platforms that were originally know that platforms that were originally adree will eventually need to become adree will eventually need to become adree will eventually need to become profitable. The best way to do that will profitable. The best way to do that will profitable. The best way to do that will be to sell ads. And if you think social be to sell ads. And if you think social be to sell ads. And if you think social media collecting information about its media collecting information about its media collecting information about its users is an advertiser's dream, AI is users is an advertiser's dream, AI is users is an advertiser's dream, AI is learning so much more about how we're learning so much more about how we're learning so much more about how we're thinking and feeling and what we might thinking and feeling and what we might thinking and feeling and what we might be willing to buy. As soon as the ads be willing to buy. As soon as the ads be willing to buy. As soon as the ads appear, the game becomes how long can appear, the game becomes how long can appear, the game becomes how long can creators keep us on these platforms so creators keep us on these platforms so creators keep us on these platforms so that they can sell our information and that they can sell our information and that they can sell our information and attention to advertisers. Might they use attention to advertisers. Might they use attention to advertisers. Might they use the same tricks that humans always fall the same tricks that humans always fall the same tricks that humans always fall for? continuous scrolling, uncertain for? continuous scrolling, uncertain for? continuous scrolling, uncertain rewards, sex, news that makes us feel rewards, sex, news that makes us feel rewards, sex, news that makes us feel angry or scared to keep us coming back angry or scared to keep us coming back angry or scared to keep us coming back or staying on. And wouldn't another good

or staying on. And wouldn't another good or staying on. And wouldn't another good way to do that be by making you feel way to do that be by making you feel way to do that be by making you feel like it was an all- knowing, neutral, like it was an all- knowing, neutral, like it was an all- knowing, neutral, really nice friend? A few months ago, really nice friend? A few months ago, really nice friend? A few months ago, Common Sense Media released a survey of Common Sense Media released a survey of Common Sense Media released a survey of teenagers that showed 72% had used AI as teenagers that showed 72% had used AI as teenagers that showed 72% had used AI as a companion, something to chat with a companion, something to chat with a companion, something to chat with about their day, share their feelings about their day, share their feelings about their day, share their feelings with, or ask for advice. About a quarter with, or ask for advice. About a quarter with, or ask for advice. About a quarter said they had shared personal said they had shared personal said they had shared personal information, their real name, location, information, their real name, location, information, their real name, location, or personal secrets with AI. And a third or personal secrets with AI. And a third or personal secrets with AI. And a third said they'd rather talk about serious said they'd rather talk about serious said they'd rather talk about serious matters with AI than with real people. matters with AI than with real people. matters with AI than with real people. You can see how this is a problem. And You can see how this is a problem. And You can see how this is a problem. And the main reason for that is that the way the main reason for that is that the way the main reason for that is that the way that Llama and Grock and the others that Llama and Grock and the others that Llama and Grock and the others answer those questions Mike asked, their answer those questions Mike asked, their answer those questions Mike asked, their creators have a faulty view of God and creators have a faulty view of God and creators have a faulty view of God and of man. of man. of man. >> The biggest problem that I have with >> The biggest problem that I have with >> The biggest problem that I have with Silicon Valley is its anthropology. The Silicon Valley is its anthropology. The Silicon Valley is its anthropology. The anthropology that Silicon Valley has anthropology that Silicon Valley has anthropology that Silicon Valley has largely had is that humanity is more largely had is that humanity is more largely had is that humanity is more good or more moral than not. It good or more moral than not. It good or more moral than not. It certainly is not an anthropology that certainly is not an anthropology that certainly is not an anthropology that incorporates the idea of widespread incorporates the idea of widespread incorporates the idea of widespread human depravity. And so because of that human depravity. And so because of that human depravity. And so because of that faulty anthropology, the promises of the faulty anthropology, the promises of the faulty anthropology, the promises of the underlying technology have overpromised underlying technology have overpromised underlying technology have overpromised and underdelivered. And here's what and underdelivered. And here's what and underdelivered. And here's what happened with all the social media happened with all the social media happened with all the social media platforms. What was promised of us is platforms. What was promised of us is platforms. What was promised of us is that with connection will come greater that with connection will come greater that with connection will come greater and greater connectivity and utopian

and greater connectivity and utopian and greater connectivity and utopian kind of things. We we're going to we're kind of things. We we're going to we're kind of things. We we're going to we're going to use this technology to bring going to use this technology to bring going to use this technology to bring people together. And what we learned is people together. And what we learned is people together. And what we learned is is that when humans were in greater is that when humans were in greater is that when humans were in greater digital contact with each other, the digital contact with each other, the digital contact with each other, the exact opposite of those things occurred. exact opposite of those things occurred. exact opposite of those things occurred. We were not brought together. We were We were not brought together. We were We were not brought together. We were fractured. And um in addition, we were fractured. And um in addition, we were fractured. And um in addition, we were fractured for profit. fractured for profit. fractured for profit. >> This always happens when our worldview >> This always happens when our worldview >> This always happens when our worldview doesn't line up with the reality of how doesn't line up with the reality of how doesn't line up with the reality of how God made the world. And this made me God made the world. And this made me God made the world. And this made me wonder if social media overpromises and wonder if social media overpromises and wonder if social media overpromises and underdelivers connection. What is AI underdelivers connection. What is AI underdelivers connection. What is AI overpromising? But I think it could be a overpromising? But I think it could be a overpromising? But I think it could be a love in some cases a love for ease, love in some cases a love for ease, love in some cases a love for ease, comfort and frictionlessness is one of comfort and frictionlessness is one of comfort and frictionlessness is one of the words that we often hear in terms of the words that we often hear in terms of the words that we often hear in terms of the the promises of digital the the promises of digital the the promises of digital technologies. They are frictionless. Uh technologies. They are frictionless. Uh technologies. They are frictionless. Uh but sometimes friction is good. but sometimes friction is good. but sometimes friction is good. Sometimes friction is good and often Sometimes friction is good and often Sometimes friction is good and often times we grow and we mature on account times we grow and we mature on account times we grow and we mature on account of friction. Whether that be the of friction. Whether that be the of friction. Whether that be the difficulty in thinking through a problem difficulty in thinking through a problem difficulty in thinking through a problem or thinking how to express an idea the or thinking how to express an idea the or thinking how to express an idea the best way, there is the potential for the best way, there is the potential for the best way, there is the potential for the the growth of of patience through such the growth of of patience through such the growth of of patience through such things. And so the idea that things. And so the idea that things. And so the idea that frictionlessness is the highest good is frictionlessness is the highest good is frictionlessness is the highest good is a value judgment that is completely

a value judgment that is completely a value judgment that is completely antagonistic to a Christian view of antagonistic to a Christian view of antagonistic to a Christian view of life. life. life. >> Here we are at the root of it. AI is >> Here we are at the root of it. AI is >> Here we are at the root of it. AI is promising a life that's easier, less promising a life that's easier, less promising a life that's easier, less work, more comfortable, a life without work, more comfortable, a life without work, more comfortable, a life without struggle or trouble. And that sounds struggle or trouble. And that sounds struggle or trouble. And that sounds really good. It can even sound better really good. It can even sound better really good. It can even sound better than Jesus who promises us that in this than Jesus who promises us that in this than Jesus who promises us that in this world we will have trouble or James who world we will have trouble or James who world we will have trouble or James who tells us to count it all joy my brothers tells us to count it all joy my brothers tells us to count it all joy my brothers when you meet trials of various kinds. when you meet trials of various kinds. when you meet trials of various kinds. Who wants to do that when you could skip Who wants to do that when you could skip Who wants to do that when you could skip the trials altogether? Oh friends, here is the rub. It is not Oh friends, here is the rub. It is not possible for us or for AI to make a possible for us or for AI to make a possible for us or for AI to make a frictionless, easy, effortless life. frictionless, easy, effortless life. frictionless, easy, effortless life. That is a false promise. We've seen this That is a false promise. We've seen this That is a false promise. We've seen this before and not just in social media that before and not just in social media that before and not just in social media that promises connection but ends up promises connection but ends up promises connection but ends up delivering isolation. Video games delivering isolation. Video games delivering isolation. Video games promise adventure but end up trapping promise adventure but end up trapping promise adventure but end up trapping you in your room. Sports betting you in your room. Sports betting you in your room. Sports betting promises riches and greater enjoyment of promises riches and greater enjoyment of promises riches and greater enjoyment of the game but ends up delivering poverty the game but ends up delivering poverty the game but ends up delivering poverty and stress. Pornography promises and stress. Pornography promises and stress. Pornography promises excitement but ends up delivering excitement but ends up delivering excitement but ends up delivering increased boredom. So, what will AI's increased boredom. So, what will AI's increased boredom. So, what will AI's promise of an easy life deliver? A promise of an easy life deliver? A promise of an easy life deliver? A harder life. Is that where this is harder life. Is that where this is harder life. Is that where this is going?

going? going? >> Elon Musk's like ideal world that like >> Elon Musk's like ideal world that like >> Elon Musk's like ideal world that like we're like robots do all the work, you we're like robots do all the work, you we're like robots do all the work, you know, we spend all our time in front of know, we spend all our time in front of know, we spend all our time in front of screens. It's like when you really think screens. It's like when you really think screens. It's like when you really think about it, it's not a very livable world. about it, it's not a very livable world. about it, it's not a very livable world. And it isn't one that that really kind And it isn't one that that really kind And it isn't one that that really kind of drives us to more meaning, identity, of drives us to more meaning, identity, of drives us to more meaning, identity, purpose, and things that seem pretty purpose, and things that seem pretty purpose, and things that seem pretty hardwired into things that we need in hardwired into things that we need in hardwired into things that we need in order to, you know, thrive and flourish. order to, you know, thrive and flourish. order to, you know, thrive and flourish. So, you know, it's unlivable from a So, you know, it's unlivable from a So, you know, it's unlivable from a relationship standpoint. It's unlivable relationship standpoint. It's unlivable relationship standpoint. It's unlivable financially. You know, all of these financially. You know, all of these financially. You know, all of these different ways that, you know, humans different ways that, you know, humans different ways that, you know, humans can organize themselves, it's just not can organize themselves, it's just not can organize themselves, it's just not super livable. And so I think we're super livable. And so I think we're super livable. And so I think we're already seeing people especially young already seeing people especially young already seeing people especially young people part of the response of you know people part of the response of you know people part of the response of you know the rising uh you know role of faith the rising uh you know role of faith the rising uh you know role of faith among young people not just in America among young people not just in America among young people not just in America but in other parts of the world is but in other parts of the world is but in other parts of the world is because of the unlivability of late because of the unlivability of late because of the unlivability of late modernity modernity modernity >> and that makes Mike really hopeful. >> and that makes Mike really hopeful. >> and that makes Mike really hopeful. >> The future is bright for our faith. I >> The future is bright for our faith. I >> The future is bright for our faith. I think the work is actually getting think the work is actually getting think the work is actually getting easier in some ways instead of harder. easier in some ways instead of harder. easier in some ways instead of harder. Is it more complex? Yes. But I think Is it more complex? Yes. But I think Is it more complex? Yes. But I think does complexity always mean that it's does complexity always mean that it's does complexity always mean that it's harder? No. Because I think our harder? No. Because I think our harder? No. Because I think our evangelism gets easier actually from evangelism gets easier actually from evangelism gets easier actually from here. Because this kind of techno here. Because this kind of techno here. Because this kind of techno optimism, naive techno optimism is it's optimism, naive techno optimism is it's optimism, naive techno optimism is it's unlivable and we have time-tested paths unlivable and we have time-tested paths unlivable and we have time-tested paths that you can have tremendous joy in life that you can have tremendous joy in life that you can have tremendous joy in life and you can have you know peace and and you can have you know peace and and you can have you know peace and shalom in all of your relationships.

shalom in all of your relationships. shalom in all of your relationships. Your vertical relationship with God, Your vertical relationship with God, Your vertical relationship with God, your internal relationship with your internal relationship with your internal relationship with yourself, your horizontal relationship yourself, your horizontal relationship yourself, your horizontal relationship with other people around you, and even with other people around you, and even with other people around you, and even the relationship that you have to the relationship that you have to the relationship that you have to creation itself. And so we have all of creation itself. And so we have all of creation itself. And so we have all of that. It's time- tested. We already know that. It's time- tested. We already know that. It's time- tested. We already know that, you know, it works. And all we that, you know, it works. And all we that, you know, it works. And all we have to do is, you know, bow the knee have to do is, you know, bow the knee have to do is, you know, bow the knee into the lordship of, you know, Jesus into the lordship of, you know, Jesus into the lordship of, you know, Jesus Christ who, you know, lived a perfect Christ who, you know, lived a perfect Christ who, you know, lived a perfect life and kept all of God's laws and died life and kept all of God's laws and died life and kept all of God's laws and died a sacrificial death on our behalf, rose a sacrificial death on our behalf, rose a sacrificial death on our behalf, rose from the dead, and offers us, you know, from the dead, and offers us, you know, from the dead, and offers us, you know, the gift of, you know, being able to the gift of, you know, being able to the gift of, you know, being able to have a a rightly restored relationship have a a rightly restored relationship have a a rightly restored relationship with God, with ourselves, with other with God, with ourselves, with other with God, with ourselves, with other people, and with all of creation. Instead of asking AI what to do in a Instead of asking AI what to do in a particular situation, Christians can ask particular situation, Christians can ask particular situation, Christians can ask the God of the universe who always knows the God of the universe who always knows the God of the universe who always knows what is best. Instead of striking up a what is best. Instead of striking up a what is best. Instead of striking up a relationship with a computer simulation, relationship with a computer simulation, relationship with a computer simulation, Christians know that laughing and Christians know that laughing and Christians know that laughing and talking and hugging real life people is talking and hugging real life people is talking and hugging real life people is so much more satisfying. Instead of so much more satisfying. Instead of so much more satisfying. Instead of clicking from one endless scroll to clicking from one endless scroll to clicking from one endless scroll to another, Christians know the better way another, Christians know the better way another, Christians know the better way is to take a walk in the woods, along is to take a walk in the woods, along is to take a walk in the woods, along the beach, or around your neighborhood.

the beach, or around your neighborhood. the beach, or around your neighborhood. All of those things from waiting for God All of those things from waiting for God All of those things from waiting for God to show you the way forward to making to show you the way forward to making to show you the way forward to making yourself go outside are harder. They are yourself go outside are harder. They are yourself go outside are harder. They are full of friction, but they are also so full of friction, but they are also so full of friction, but they are also so much better, healthier, more satisfying. much better, healthier, more satisfying. much better, healthier, more satisfying. They are worth doing. But what about our They are worth doing. But what about our They are worth doing. But what about our non-Christian neighbors? How can we non-Christian neighbors? How can we non-Christian neighbors? How can we reach them if they're increasingly reach them if they're increasingly reach them if they're increasingly locked away in their homes asking Chat locked away in their homes asking Chat locked away in their homes asking Chat GPT what to eat for dinner and if Jesus GPT what to eat for dinner and if Jesus GPT what to eat for dinner and if Jesus really rose from the dead? I told Keith really rose from the dead? I told Keith really rose from the dead? I told Keith I was worried about decreasing I was worried about decreasing I was worried about decreasing opportunities for evangelism. opportunities for evangelism. opportunities for evangelism. >> Well, but I mean, how did you do that >> Well, but I mean, how did you do that >> Well, but I mean, how did you do that before chat GPT was a concern? before chat GPT was a concern? before chat GPT was a concern? >> Oh, yeah. You grew a relationship with >> Oh, yeah. You grew a relationship with >> Oh, yeah. You grew a relationship with someone and then you waited for an someone and then you waited for an someone and then you waited for an opportunity and then you said, "Hey, opportunity and then you said, "Hey, opportunity and then you said, "Hey, have you thought about it this way?" Or, have you thought about it this way?" Or, have you thought about it this way?" Or, "Can I tell you about Jesus?" "Can I tell you about Jesus?" "Can I tell you about Jesus?" >> Yeah. And and see, I think that just >> Yeah. And and see, I think that just >> Yeah. And and see, I think that just even asking that question makes us even asking that question makes us even asking that question makes us think, okay, well, yeah, these are think, okay, well, yeah, these are think, okay, well, yeah, these are different times, but they're not so different times, but they're not so different times, but they're not so different that we've got to come up with different that we've got to come up with different that we've got to come up with a completely a completely a completely different way of engaging people.

different way of engaging people. different way of engaging people. >> He thinks the rise of AI is a golden >> He thinks the rise of AI is a golden >> He thinks the rise of AI is a golden opportunity for the church. Because as I opportunity for the church. Because as I opportunity for the church. Because as I think about with all the things that I think about with all the things that I think about with all the things that I have concerns about and sometimes very have concerns about and sometimes very have concerns about and sometimes very grave concerns about, I'm excited grave concerns about, I'm excited grave concerns about, I'm excited because I think that this is something because I think that this is something because I think that this is something that should push us to think much more that should push us to think much more that should push us to think much more deeply about things like biblical deeply about things like biblical deeply about things like biblical anthropology, what it means to be a anthropology, what it means to be a anthropology, what it means to be a human. As we are encountering and human. As we are encountering and human. As we are encountering and creating things that are so seemingly creating things that are so seemingly creating things that are so seemingly able to simulate humanlike behavior, it able to simulate humanlike behavior, it able to simulate humanlike behavior, it raises the question of well what what is raises the question of well what what is raises the question of well what what is it that is distinctive about being it that is distinctive about being it that is distinctive about being human? And I I think you know there are human? And I I think you know there are human? And I I think you know there are a whole lot of doctrines that I think a whole lot of doctrines that I think a whole lot of doctrines that I think the church has opportunity to not only the church has opportunity to not only the church has opportunity to not only explore deeper but to live into in terms explore deeper but to live into in terms explore deeper but to live into in terms of the goodness of embodied community. of the goodness of embodied community. of the goodness of embodied community. And I I think the opportunity for the And I I think the opportunity for the And I I think the opportunity for the church in this climate that is becoming church in this climate that is becoming church in this climate that is becoming both more digitally immersed and both more digitally immersed and both more digitally immersed and lonelier are great. There are a lot of lonelier are great. There are a lot of lonelier are great. There are a lot of opportunities for Christians to offer a opportunities for Christians to offer a opportunities for Christians to offer a a different and better way.

a different and better way. a different and better way. >> As we offer a different and better way, >> As we offer a different and better way, >> As we offer a different and better way, let's remember this. God made us to be let's remember this. God made us to be let's remember this. God made us to be culture creating imagebearers, culture creating imagebearers, culture creating imagebearers, exercising authority over creation as exercising authority over creation as exercising authority over creation as faithful stewards. One small way we do faithful stewards. One small way we do faithful stewards. One small way we do that is by exploring, inventing and that is by exploring, inventing and that is by exploring, inventing and building with technology. This is good building with technology. This is good building with technology. This is good work and it can lead to new avenues of work and it can lead to new avenues of work and it can lead to new avenues of creativity to enhanced human flourishing creativity to enhanced human flourishing creativity to enhanced human flourishing and to the reduction of some of our and to the reduction of some of our and to the reduction of some of our thorns and thistles. But it is also thorns and thistles. But it is also thorns and thistles. But it is also clear that technology like everything clear that technology like everything clear that technology like everything else in this broken world tilts us else in this broken world tilts us else in this broken world tilts us toward or away from the Lord. It is not toward or away from the Lord. It is not toward or away from the Lord. It is not neutral. Therefore, what we should be neutral. Therefore, what we should be neutral. Therefore, what we should be seeking from Silicon Valley and from our seeking from Silicon Valley and from our seeking from Silicon Valley and from our own tech use are choices that curb own tech use are choices that curb own tech use are choices that curb individual and institutional depravity individual and institutional depravity individual and institutional depravity and that instead promote common grace. and that instead promote common grace. and that instead promote common grace. things like telling the truth, guarding things like telling the truth, guarding things like telling the truth, guarding against addiction, and promoting against addiction, and promoting against addiction, and promoting embodied relationships. In today's tech embodied relationships. In today's tech embodied relationships. In today's tech environment, it can be hard to choose environment, it can be hard to choose environment, it can be hard to choose those things. So, let me give you some those things. So, let me give you some those things. So, let me give you some encouragement. Even if AI sucks up all encouragement. Even if AI sucks up all encouragement. Even if AI sucks up all of human knowledge from the beginning to of human knowledge from the beginning to of human knowledge from the beginning to the end of time, that would be just a the end of time, that would be just a the end of time, that would be just a drop in the ocean compared to the drop in the ocean compared to the drop in the ocean compared to the knowledge of our creator. Even if AI knowledge of our creator. Even if AI knowledge of our creator. Even if AI could somehow in the future make better could somehow in the future make better could somehow in the future make better leaps in logic, that would never compare leaps in logic, that would never compare leaps in logic, that would never compare to the wisdom of the Lord. Even if AI to the wisdom of the Lord. Even if AI to the wisdom of the Lord. Even if AI therapists offer all the affirmation and therapists offer all the affirmation and therapists offer all the affirmation and support in the world, that is laughably

support in the world, that is laughably support in the world, that is laughably small compared to the love of a heavenly small compared to the love of a heavenly small compared to the love of a heavenly father who loves you so much. He created father who loves you so much. He created father who loves you so much. He created you, sustained you, and saved you. There you, sustained you, and saved you. There you, sustained you, and saved you. There is no storyline that AI can create, no is no storyline that AI can create, no is no storyline that AI can create, no character. It can assume, no advice it character. It can assume, no advice it character. It can assume, no advice it can offer, no entertainment it can can offer, no entertainment it can can offer, no entertainment it can invent that can come close to invent that can come close to invent that can come close to replicating the interesting, purposeful, replicating the interesting, purposeful, replicating the interesting, purposeful, beautiful, hilarious, scary, and beautiful, hilarious, scary, and beautiful, hilarious, scary, and meaningful life and relationships the meaningful life and relationships the meaningful life and relationships the Lord has already given you. So when you Lord has already given you. So when you Lord has already given you. So when you have questions, go ahead and ask AI, but have questions, go ahead and ask AI, but have questions, go ahead and ask AI, but do so remembering that you're asking a do so remembering that you're asking a do so remembering that you're asking a robot that is programmed to put one word robot that is programmed to put one word robot that is programmed to put one word after another. Save your hard questions. after another. Save your hard questions. after another. Save your hard questions. Why am I suffering like this? How can I Why am I suffering like this? How can I Why am I suffering like this? How can I be a better friend? What is the purpose be a better friend? What is the purpose be a better friend? What is the purpose of my life? For conversations with God of my life? For conversations with God of my life? For conversations with God and close friends. Wrestle with them as and close friends. Wrestle with them as and close friends. Wrestle with them as you read your Bible and write prayers in you read your Bible and write prayers in you read your Bible and write prayers in your journal. And if somebody asks you your journal. And if somebody asks you your journal. And if somebody asks you one of those, don't shrug it off. Maybe one of those, don't shrug it off. Maybe one of those, don't shrug it off. Maybe you could say, "Hey, I don't know, but you could say, "Hey, I don't know, but you could say, "Hey, I don't know, but that is such an interesting question. I that is such an interesting question. I that is such an interesting question. I would love to dig into that with you.

would love to dig into that with you. would love to dig into that with you. Want to grab coffee with me sometime? [Music] [Music] Thank you for listening to this episode Thank you for listening to this episode Thank you for listening to this episode of Recorded, which is part of the Gospel of Recorded, which is part of the Gospel of Recorded, which is part of the Gospel Coalition's podcast network. This Coalition's podcast network. This Coalition's podcast network. This episode was written by me, Sarah Xystra, episode was written by me, Sarah Xystra, episode was written by me, Sarah Xystra, and edited by Colin Hansen, Daryl and edited by Colin Hansen, Daryl and edited by Colin Hansen, Daryl Williamson, Megan Hill, and Cassie Williamson, Megan Hill, and Cassie Williamson, Megan Hill, and Cassie Watson. Our audio editor was Scott Caro Watson. Our audio editor was Scott Caro Watson. Our audio editor was Scott Caro and our producer was Newbridge Studios. and our producer was Newbridge Studios. and our producer was Newbridge Studios. Recorded is made possible by generous Recorded is made possible by generous Recorded is made possible by generous donations. If you would like to join in donations. If you would like to join in donations. If you would like to join in supporting this work, we would love for supporting this work, we would love for supporting this work, we would love for you to do so at tgc.org/donate.