A Deep Dish Birthday Party (with Special Guests)! [The Deep Dish - Ep. 32]

Our listeners don't give us light and Our listeners don't give us light and fluffy little [music] questions. fluffy little [music] questions. fluffy little [music] questions. Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask deep questions. So, we brought [music] deep questions. So, we brought [music] deep questions. So, we brought [music] in some help today to help us celebrate, in some help today to help us celebrate, in some help today to help us celebrate, but also to help answer some of these but also to help answer some of these but also to help answer some of these questions. But, we're going to start questions. But, we're going to start questions. But, we're going to start with [music] one and then surprise with [music] one and then surprise with [music] one and then surprise people will be dropping in on us along people will be dropping in on us along people will be dropping in on us along the way. Do you want to be first? No. the way. Do you want to be first? No. the way. Do you want to be first? No. Okay. Okay. We'll keep it a take this. Okay. Okay. We'll keep it a take this. Okay. Okay. We'll keep it a take this. Yeah. I love the surprise aspect of Yeah. I love the surprise aspect of Yeah. I love the surprise aspect of this. this. this. >> Okay. We'll keep it a surprise. >> [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I'm truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I'm truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I'm here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. And today, I wish I had like Krueger. And today, I wish I had like Krueger. And today, I wish I had like balloons or something because we are balloons or something because we are balloons or something because we are celebrating the oneyear anniversary of celebrating the oneyear anniversary of celebrating the oneyear anniversary of The Deep Dish. It's kind of hard. It's The Deep Dish. It's kind of hard. It's The Deep Dish. It's kind of hard. It's kind of hard to believe, but so fun. kind of hard to believe, but so fun. kind of hard to believe, but so fun. >> I know. Um, it's been such a fun place >> I know. Um, it's been such a fun place >> I know. Um, it's been such a fun place to have these conversations. And what's to have these conversations. And what's to have these conversations. And what's been really wonderful and surprising is been really wonderful and surprising is been really wonderful and surprising is so many people all over we hear from are so many people all over we hear from are so many people all over we hear from are listening in. I mean, it's been such a listening in. I mean, it's been such a listening in. I mean, it's been such a gift to us um to continue these gift to us um to continue these gift to us um to continue these conversations different places we go. I conversations different places we go. I conversations different places we go. I mean, Courtney, you were all the way in mean, Courtney, you were all the way in mean, Courtney, you were all the way in Australia talking to people and they Australia talking to people and they Australia talking to people and they were talking about the deep dish, which were talking about the deep dish, which were talking about the deep dish, which is kind of just amazing amazing to me.

is kind of just amazing amazing to me. is kind of just amazing amazing to me. But, um, let me ask you this. What's But, um, let me ask you this. What's But, um, let me ask you this. What's been one of your favorite episodes or been one of your favorite episodes or been one of your favorite episodes or maybe even surprises about hosting this maybe even surprises about hosting this maybe even surprises about hosting this year? year? year? >> Yeah, I think part of the surprise has >> Yeah, I think part of the surprise has >> Yeah, I think part of the surprise has been just that that people actually want been just that that people actually want been just that that people actually want to listen to you and me having these to listen to you and me having these to listen to you and me having these conversations [laughter] conversations [laughter] conversations [laughter] because we've said it so many times. because we've said it so many times. because we've said it so many times. These are kind of normal These are kind of normal These are kind of normal conversations that you and I tend to conversations that you and I tend to conversations that you and I tend to have and then we just are hitting have and then we just are hitting have and then we just are hitting record. And so it's been so fun to have record. And so it's been so fun to have record. And so it's been so fun to have people join us for those and then to people join us for those and then to people join us for those and then to hear, you know, uh ways that they've hear, you know, uh ways that they've hear, you know, uh ways that they've taken the conversations and furthered taken the conversations and furthered taken the conversations and furthered them with people in their real life. And them with people in their real life. And them with people in their real life. And I would just say, yeah, the the um I would just say, yeah, the the um I would just say, yeah, the the um places [clears throat] that I've been places [clears throat] that I've been places [clears throat] that I've been that people are are saying that they're that people are are saying that they're that people are are saying that they're listening to the deep dish. So shout out listening to the deep dish. So shout out listening to the deep dish. So shout out to my friends in Perth, Australia. I to my friends in Perth, Australia. I to my friends in Perth, Australia. I mean, it's pretty far away. And um they mean, it's pretty far away. And um they mean, it's pretty far away. And um they were loving the deep dish. And so we're were loving the deep dish. And so we're were loving the deep dish. And so we're just we're just praising God because just we're just praising God because just we're just praising God because we're having a blast and our prayer has we're having a blast and our prayer has we're having a blast and our prayer has been the whole time that this would be been the whole time that this would be been the whole time that this would be um these would be conversations that um these would be conversations that um these would be conversations that serve you in your real life and with serve you in your real life and with serve you in your real life and with your real friends and that you just your real friends and that you just your real friends and that you just continue to do this. I'd say one of my continue to do this. I'd say one of my continue to do this. I'd say one of my favorite episodes is actually one of the favorite episodes is actually one of the favorite episodes is actually one of the it's hard to pick, right? But there was it's hard to pick, right? But there was it's hard to pick, right? But there was something really almost sacred for me something really almost sacred for me something really almost sacred for me about interviewing Colleen Chow. um if about interviewing Colleen Chow. um if about interviewing Colleen Chow. um if you haven't listened to that episode, you haven't listened to that episode, you haven't listened to that episode, it's um it was just a a really beautiful it's um it was just a a really beautiful it's um it was just a a really beautiful gift that she gave us by spending time gift that she gave us by spending time gift that she gave us by spending time and energy on the podcast and I just and energy on the podcast and I just and energy on the podcast and I just really um value that that episode in a really um value that that episode in a really um value that that episode in a in a unique way. Um but one of our in a unique way. Um but one of our in a unique way. Um but one of our favorite ways, so we love these podcasts

favorite ways, so we love these podcasts favorite ways, so we love these podcasts to be as interactive as possible. So, a to be as interactive as possible. So, a to be as interactive as possible. So, a lot of times we'll ask you to make lot of times we'll ask you to make lot of times we'll ask you to make comments in the in the chat or not the comments in the in the chat or not the comments in the in the chat or not the chat, but in the notes and um and then chat, but in the notes and um and then chat, but in the notes and um and then we give you discussion questions, but um we give you discussion questions, but um we give you discussion questions, but um one of our favorite ways, this is the one of our favorite ways, this is the one of our favorite ways, this is the second time we've done it, to bring second time we've done it, to bring second time we've done it, to bring listeners into uh the show is to ask you listeners into uh the show is to ask you listeners into uh the show is to ask you for questions and then try to answer for questions and then try to answer for questions and then try to answer them. So, today we're actually going to them. So, today we're actually going to them. So, today we're actually going to gathered. You guys were great. You sent gathered. You guys were great. You sent gathered. You guys were great. You sent in some great questions, but we're going in some great questions, but we're going in some great questions, but we're going to spend some time answering some of to spend some time answering some of to spend some time answering some of those that you sent in. But Melissa, those that you sent in. But Melissa, those that you sent in. But Melissa, what about you? would have been either what about you? would have been either what about you? would have been either one of your favorite episodes or just one of your favorite episodes or just one of your favorite episodes or just something that's been really surprising something that's been really surprising something that's been really surprising about this. about this. about this. >> Yeah. You know what I can say that's >> Yeah. You know what I can say that's >> Yeah. You know what I can say that's been surprising to me is that I'm been surprising to me is that I'm been surprising to me is that I'm actually learning in real time. I know actually learning in real time. I know actually learning in real time. I know that that that that that that that that that you may think we get on this and we have you may think we get on this and we have you may think we get on this and we have everything ready that we're going to everything ready that we're going to everything ready that we're going to say. Um and Courtney might, [laughter] say. Um and Courtney might, [laughter] say. Um and Courtney might, [laughter] but I do not. And I I think um as we but I do not. And I I think um as we but I do not. And I I think um as we discuss these topics, what's been really discuss these topics, what's been really discuss these topics, what's been really um sweet to me is the spiritual growth um sweet to me is the spiritual growth um sweet to me is the spiritual growth it's done in my own life. Like one of it's done in my own life. Like one of it's done in my own life. Like one of the episodes in particular, I just the episodes in particular, I just the episodes in particular, I just remember we were having the gossip remember we were having the gossip remember we were having the gossip conversation. Things were clicking in my conversation. Things were clicking in my conversation. Things were clicking in my head. Um and I was like, "Oo, I need to head. Um and I was like, "Oo, I need to head. Um and I was like, "Oo, I need to think about this differently." And so I think about this differently." And so I think about this differently." And so I think what I've loved about it is it's think what I've loved about it is it's think what I've loved about it is it's yeah it's been a place where we get to yeah it's been a place where we get to yeah it's been a place where we get to chew through ideas you know or that chew through ideas you know or that chew through ideas you know or that sounds weird chew on ideas um and sounds weird chew on ideas um and sounds weird chew on ideas um and discuss these things as we have thought discuss these things as we have thought discuss these things as we have thought about them but really I'm learning from about them but really I'm learning from about them but really I'm learning from you and I'm learning in having the space

you and I'm learning in having the space you and I'm learning in having the space to have the conversation. to have the conversation. to have the conversation. >> Does that make sense? Like just >> Does that make sense? Like just >> Does that make sense? Like just >> Yeah. No definitely >> Yeah. No definitely >> Yeah. No definitely >> time. >> time. >> time. >> Yeah. even like the theology of the body >> Yeah. even like the theology of the body >> Yeah. even like the theology of the body conversation like that was learning in conversation like that was learning in conversation like that was learning in real time for me. Things were shifting real time for me. Things were shifting real time for me. Things were shifting in my own heart as we were having that in my own heart as we were having that in my own heart as we were having that conversation. Well, one of our favorite conversation. Well, one of our favorite conversation. Well, one of our favorite ways to bring listeners into the show is ways to bring listeners into the show is ways to bring listeners into the show is to ask and answer uh your questions. So, to ask and answer uh your questions. So, to ask and answer uh your questions. So, that's exactly what we're going to do that's exactly what we're going to do that's exactly what we're going to do today. Just as a way of celebrating, as today. Just as a way of celebrating, as today. Just as a way of celebrating, as a way of saying thank you, as a way of a way of saying thank you, as a way of a way of saying thank you, as a way of saying we we love doing this with you, saying we we love doing this with you, saying we we love doing this with you, we're going to spend some time answering we're going to spend some time answering we're going to spend some time answering some questions uh that you have all sent some questions uh that you have all sent some questions uh that you have all sent in. But that's not the only thing, in. But that's not the only thing, in. But that's not the only thing, right? right? right? >> Well, yeah, because Well, one thing I >> Well, yeah, because Well, one thing I >> Well, yeah, because Well, one thing I just want to say, our listeners don't just want to say, our listeners don't just want to say, our listeners don't give us light and fluffy little give us light and fluffy little give us light and fluffy little questions. [laughter] questions. [laughter] questions. [laughter] Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask Y'all like deep dish and you like to ask deep questions. So, we brought in some deep questions. So, we brought in some deep questions. So, we brought in some help today to help us celebrate, but help today to help us celebrate, but help today to help us celebrate, but also to help answer some of these also to help answer some of these also to help answer some of these questions. But, we're going to start questions. But, we're going to start questions. But, we're going to start with one and then surprise people will with one and then surprise people will with one and then surprise people will be dropping in on us along the way. Do be dropping in on us along the way. Do be dropping in on us along the way. Do do you want do you want do you want >> Who's going to be first? No.

>> Who's going to be first? No. >> Who's going to be first? No. >> Okay. No. Okay. We'll keep it a surprise >> Okay. No. Okay. We'll keep it a surprise >> Okay. No. Okay. We'll keep it a surprise to take this. Yeah, I love the surprise to take this. Yeah, I love the surprise to take this. Yeah, I love the surprise aspect of this. aspect of this. aspect of this. >> Okay, we'll keep it a surprise. Well, >> Okay, we'll keep it a surprise. Well, >> Okay, we'll keep it a surprise. Well, let me ask you this question to begin. let me ask you this question to begin. let me ask you this question to begin. This was a good question from a listener This was a good question from a listener This was a good question from a listener out there. Um, how do you keep from out there. Um, how do you keep from out there. Um, how do you keep from measuring spiritual growth by measuring spiritual growth by measuring spiritual growth by productivity or consistency productivity or consistency productivity or consistency rather than dependency on Christ? That's rather than dependency on Christ? That's rather than dependency on Christ? That's it's hard. I I find myself, you know, it's hard. I I find myself, you know, it's hard. I I find myself, you know, it's one of those things. It's like I it's one of those things. It's like I it's one of those things. It's like I drift back into measuring it by drift back into measuring it by drift back into measuring it by productivity uh or consistency and then productivity uh or consistency and then productivity uh or consistency and then it's like no, I have to shift my heart it's like no, I have to shift my heart it's like no, I have to shift my heart back into just reminding myself the back into just reminding myself the back into just reminding myself the truth of the gospel. These things that truth of the gospel. These things that truth of the gospel. These things that like the work that we've been called to like the work that we've been called to like the work that we've been called to do, all of us, it is a privilege and a do, all of us, it is a privilege and a do, all of us, it is a privilege and a joy. It is not uh a marker of our joy. It is not uh a marker of our joy. It is not uh a marker of our spiritual growth. And so I have to spiritual growth. And so I have to spiritual growth. And so I have to untether my heart from wanting those untether my heart from wanting those untether my heart from wanting those things that I can almost bring and things that I can almost bring and things that I can almost bring and present to God, right? like look, I've present to God, right? like look, I've present to God, right? like look, I've had, you know, I've spent time in prayer had, you know, I've spent time in prayer had, you know, I've spent time in prayer for five consistent days in a row or or for five consistent days in a row or or for five consistent days in a row or or look, I got to, you know, work on look, I got to, you know, work on look, I got to, you know, work on writing this this thought about you out writing this this thought about you out writing this this thought about you out and share it with a friend and like and share it with a friend and like and share it with a friend and like presenting them to God. And so when I presenting them to God. And so when I presenting them to God. And so when I see myself doing that, it's like, no, I see myself doing that, it's like, no, I see myself doing that, it's like, no, I have to remember again the gospel that have to remember again the gospel that have to remember again the gospel that these things are a joy and a privilege, these things are a joy and a privilege, these things are a joy and a privilege, but they are not uh they are not what but they are not uh they are not what but they are not uh they are not what constitute my relationship with father, constitute my relationship with father, constitute my relationship with father, son, with the father, son, and holy son, with the father, son, and holy son, with the father, son, and holy spirit. Um that is grace and faith and spirit. Um that is grace and faith and spirit. Um that is grace and faith and through the word and the spirit. So what through the word and the spirit. So what through the word and the spirit. So what about you?

about you? about you? >> That's so good. Um well you know this >> That's so good. Um well you know this >> That's so good. Um well you know this question took me down a whole rabbit question took me down a whole rabbit question took me down a whole rabbit trail in my mind because I was like how trail in my mind because I was like how trail in my mind because I was like how do we measure spiritual growth? You know do we measure spiritual growth? You know do we measure spiritual growth? You know I've never really thought about it like I've never really thought about it like I've never really thought about it like how do I actually say um I've grown in how do I actually say um I've grown in how do I actually say um I've grown in something spiritually and you know so I something spiritually and you know so I something spiritually and you know so I was really thinking about that and I was really thinking about that and I was really thinking about that and I realized we want to measure it but I realized we want to measure it but I realized we want to measure it but I don't think it's actually measured. Like don't think it's actually measured. Like don't think it's actually measured. Like I don't think there are measurements we I don't think there are measurements we I don't think there are measurements we take. I [snorts] think spiritual growth take. I [snorts] think spiritual growth take. I [snorts] think spiritual growth is revealed rather than measured. And so is revealed rather than measured. And so is revealed rather than measured. And so it's like oh and that totally changes it's like oh and that totally changes it's like oh and that totally changes how you think about it. You start to how you think about it. You start to how you think about it. You start to realize okay this hard situation realize okay this hard situation realize okay this hard situation happened and maybe the spiritual growth happened and maybe the spiritual growth happened and maybe the spiritual growth is I turn to to prayer before turning to is I turn to to prayer before turning to is I turn to to prayer before turning to five friends to talk about it. you you five friends to talk about it. you you five friends to talk about it. you you know and so it's revealed in us rather know and so it's revealed in us rather know and so it's revealed in us rather than measured by us and so that's been a than measured by us and so that's been a than measured by us and so that's been a shift I think even as I heard that shift I think even as I heard that shift I think even as I heard that question I think that shift helps us question I think that shift helps us question I think that shift helps us realize it's something God shows us he's realize it's something God shows us he's realize it's something God shows us he's done in us rather than we show God we've done in us rather than we show God we've done in us rather than we show God we've done done done >> yeah greater peace in a situation that >> yeah greater peace in a situation that >> yeah greater peace in a situation that when we shouldn't have peace when we shouldn't have peace when we shouldn't have peace >> greater trust in all of those things >> greater trust in all of those things >> greater trust in all of those things >> that like maybe I didn't lose it and >> that like maybe I didn't lose it and >> that like maybe I didn't lose it and yell at everybody about the dishes all yell at everybody about the dishes all yell at everybody about the dishes all being done, you know, like, oh, right.

being done, you know, like, oh, right. being done, you know, like, oh, right. >> I handled that with patience. And the >> I handled that with patience. And the >> I handled that with patience. And the Lord shows us rather than, Lord shows us rather than, Lord shows us rather than, >> yeah, I did these things and now >> yeah, I did these things and now >> yeah, I did these things and now >> now I over the long haul, you look back >> now I over the long haul, you look back >> now I over the long haul, you look back and you're like, oh, sanctification is and you're like, oh, sanctification is and you're like, oh, sanctification is actually real. Praise God. Like by his actually real. Praise God. Like by his actually real. Praise God. Like by his grace. grace. grace. >> That's right, Nancy. >> That's right, Nancy. >> That's right, Nancy. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. Perfect timing. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] our first guest. How are you? our first guest. How are you? our first guest. How are you? >> We're good. We're good. Because you can >> We're good. We're good. Because you can >> We're good. We're good. Because you can sing. I kind of want to ask you to sing sing. I kind of want to ask you to sing sing. I kind of want to ask you to sing happy birthday to us, but you know. happy birthday to us, but you know. happy birthday to us, but you know. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> No, I only sing spiritual songs. >> No, I only sing spiritual songs. >> No, I only sing spiritual songs. >> That's so true. That's so true. H Well, >> That's so true. That's so true. H Well, >> That's so true. That's so true. H Well, Nancy, thanks for popping on and being a Nancy, thanks for popping on and being a Nancy, thanks for popping on and being a part of our birthday party. We are so part of our birthday party. We are so part of our birthday party. We are so happy grateful for what you guys have happy grateful for what you guys have happy grateful for what you guys have done and are doing. It's terrific. done and are doing. It's terrific. done and are doing. It's terrific. >> Thanks. Well, we love I always go back >> Thanks. Well, we love I always go back >> Thanks. Well, we love I always go back to that one of the first episodes that to that one of the first episodes that to that one of the first episodes that we released was the one on prayer and we we released was the one on prayer and we we released was the one on prayer and we had Melissa and I were just talking had Melissa and I were just talking had Melissa and I were just talking about the fact that we learn in real about the fact that we learn in real about the fact that we learn in real time during these conversations. And time during these conversations. And time during these conversations. And that was one of those that I just that was one of those that I just that was one of those that I just remember thinking, "Wow, my prayer life remember thinking, "Wow, my prayer life remember thinking, "Wow, my prayer life is shifting because of this is shifting because of this is shifting because of this conversation." I'm just really grateful conversation." I'm just really grateful conversation." I'm just really grateful for that. Uh we're also really grateful for that. Uh we're also really grateful for that. Uh we're also really grateful for your help because like Melissa for your help because like Melissa for your help because like Melissa already said, our listeners do not um already said, our listeners do not um already said, our listeners do not um hand in light and fluffy questions. So hand in light and fluffy questions. So hand in light and fluffy questions. So we have brought in res, you know, we have brought in res, you know, we have brought in res, you know, whenever you get stumped with a whenever you get stumped with a whenever you get stumped with a question, you just bring in Nancy

question, you just bring in Nancy question, you just bring in Nancy Guthrie. Like that's, you know, I was Guthrie. Like that's, you know, I was Guthrie. Like that's, you know, I was kind of thinking that's what you were kind of thinking that's what you were kind of thinking that's what you were doing. [laughter] doing. [laughter] doing. [laughter] >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> Nancy, you know [laughter] us well. >> Nancy, you know [laughter] us well. >> Nancy, you know [laughter] us well. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. Well, I want to start with one that came Well, I want to start with one that came Well, I want to start with one that came in and I actually this is going to be me in and I actually this is going to be me in and I actually this is going to be me learning in real time again. How do you learning in real time again. How do you learning in real time again. How do you Here's the question. How do you discern Here's the question. How do you discern Here's the question. How do you discern the difference between conviction from the difference between conviction from the difference between conviction from the spirit and shame? the spirit and shame? the spirit and shame? >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you giving me >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you giving me >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to think this through the opportunity to think this through the opportunity to think this through and talk about it. um you know shame and talk about it. um you know shame and talk about it. um you know shame uh in our lives which is very real but I uh in our lives which is very real but I uh in our lives which is very real but I I think it's the accusers's work in our I think it's the accusers's work in our I think it's the accusers's work in our life uh with a very specific purpose life uh with a very specific purpose life uh with a very specific purpose that that that the the accuser the enemy that that that the the accuser the enemy that that that the the accuser the enemy of our soul always has the purpose of of our soul always has the purpose of of our soul always has the purpose of alienating us from Christ and paralyzing alienating us from Christ and paralyzing alienating us from Christ and paralyzing us in our sin. That's what he wants to us in our sin. That's what he wants to us in our sin. That's what he wants to do. Um, what is it? First Peter says do. Um, what is it? First Peter says do. Um, what is it? First Peter says that you know that he's like a lion that you know that he's like a lion that you know that he's like a lion seeking to devour us. And so I think seeking to devour us. And so I think seeking to devour us. And so I think shame is a way that he devours us shame is a way that he devours us shame is a way that he devours us because doesn't that fit? I mean that because doesn't that fit? I mean that because doesn't that fit? I mean that that sense of like shame eats you up that sense of like shame eats you up that sense of like shame eats you up from the inside. Um the accuser's voice from the inside. Um the accuser's voice from the inside. Um the accuser's voice is here's what he says. He says you is here's what he says. He says you is here's what he says. He says you should be ashamed of yourself. Mhm.

should be ashamed of yourself. Mhm. should be ashamed of yourself. Mhm. >> And the accuser says, "This is who you >> And the accuser says, "This is who you >> And the accuser says, "This is who you are and you can never change." So are and you can never change." So are and you can never change." So there's the voice of shame in our lives, there's the voice of shame in our lives, there's the voice of shame in our lives, but but but the voice of the spirit in our lives the voice of the spirit in our lives the voice of the spirit in our lives is the one that brings conviction. And is the one that brings conviction. And is the one that brings conviction. And he also has a purpose. His purpose he also has a purpose. His purpose he also has a purpose. His purpose is to bring us to confession is to bring us to confession is to bring us to confession and to welcome us into the healing that and to welcome us into the healing that and to welcome us into the healing that only he can do. So whereas the the voice only he can do. So whereas the the voice only he can do. So whereas the the voice of the enemy in our lives of the enemy in our lives of the enemy in our lives uh says you should be ashamed. uh says you should be ashamed. uh says you should be ashamed. The voice of Christ in our lives The voice of Christ in our lives The voice of Christ in our lives speaking to us by his spirit says, "I speaking to us by his spirit says, "I speaking to us by his spirit says, "I love you too much to let you linger in love you too much to let you linger in love you too much to let you linger in this sin that's only going to destroy this sin that's only going to destroy this sin that's only going to destroy you." And so I I want you to see it and you." And so I I want you to see it and you." And so I I want you to see it and I I want I want you to humble yourself I I want I want you to humble yourself I I want I want you to humble yourself and confess it. And then you know what and confess it. And then you know what and confess it. And then you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to cleanse I'm going to do? I'm going to cleanse I'm going to do? I'm going to cleanse you.

you. you. >> And so that's what the voice of Christ >> And so that's what the voice of Christ >> And so that's what the voice of Christ is. And the voice of the spirit says, I is. And the voice of the spirit says, I is. And the voice of the spirit says, I can provide you with supernatural power can provide you with supernatural power can provide you with supernatural power to change. So this doesn't have to to change. So this doesn't have to to change. So this doesn't have to continue dominating your life. And the continue dominating your life. And the continue dominating your life. And the voice of the father says to us, because voice of the father says to us, because voice of the father says to us, because you are joined to Christ, I want you to you are joined to Christ, I want you to you are joined to Christ, I want you to know that you are always welcome to come know that you are always welcome to come know that you are always welcome to come to my throne. And my throne is a throne to my throne. And my throne is a throne to my throne. And my throne is a throne of grace. of grace. of grace. And I give grace and the help needed And I give grace and the help needed And I give grace and the help needed when you need it. when you need it. when you need it. >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were talking about that paralyzing talking about that paralyzing talking about that paralyzing nature of shame, I had this, you know, I nature of shame, I had this, you know, I nature of shame, I had this, you know, I was thinking, oh, like a snake bites was thinking, oh, like a snake bites was thinking, oh, like a snake bites you. And then what you know, how is you. And then what you know, how is you. And then what you know, how is Satan referred to so often? The serpent Satan referred to so often? The serpent Satan referred to so often? The serpent of old. And it's like his words trap us, of old. And it's like his words trap us, of old. And it's like his words trap us, you know, steal, kill, and destroy. you know, steal, kill, and destroy. you know, steal, kill, and destroy. That's what he's seeking to do to us. That's what he's seeking to do to us. That's what he's seeking to do to us. And put us in jail. Whereas I think of And put us in jail. Whereas I think of And put us in jail. Whereas I think of Romans where it's like there's no Romans where it's like there's no Romans where it's like there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ condemnation for those who are in Christ condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. It's this freedom from freedom Jesus. It's this freedom from freedom Jesus. It's this freedom from freedom from the past sin, but also a freedom to from the past sin, but also a freedom to from the past sin, but also a freedom to live a life of righteousness. So shame live a life of righteousness. So shame live a life of righteousness. So shame is always going to ent trapped. You is always going to ent trapped. You is always going to ent trapped. You can't do anything other than this. Okay, can't do anything other than this. Okay, can't do anything other than this. Okay, so the next one, this one's really so the next one, this one's really so the next one, this one's really tough. [snorts] How do you seek advice tough. [snorts] How do you seek advice tough. [snorts] How do you seek advice about relationships or conflict about relationships or conflict about relationships or conflict without it being gossip? Like when I without it being gossip? Like when I without it being gossip? Like when I need to come to you about a problem with need to come to you about a problem with need to come to you about a problem with Melissa, how can I [laughter] talk to Melissa, how can I [laughter] talk to Melissa, how can I [laughter] talk to you about it without gossiping about

you about it without gossiping about you about it without gossiping about her? her? her? >> Good. >> Good. >> Good. >> All right. Well, I think the first thing >> All right. Well, I think the first thing >> All right. Well, I think the first thing is um that you're very selective about is um that you're very selective about is um that you're very selective about that person that you might want to talk that person that you might want to talk that person that you might want to talk to about it. And so, and I think the to about it. And so, and I think the to about it. And so, and I think the reality is for most of us, we kind of reality is for most of us, we kind of reality is for most of us, we kind of look for that person that's going to look for that person that's going to look for that person that's going to like dive in with us and going, "Oh my, like dive in with us and going, "Oh my, like dive in with us and going, "Oh my, she is such a jerk." she is such a jerk." she is such a jerk." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. I think we our our flesh, that's >> Right. I think we our our flesh, that's >> Right. I think we our our flesh, that's what our flesh wants. Our flesh wants what our flesh wants. Our flesh wants what our flesh wants. Our flesh wants someone who's going to go, I can't someone who's going to go, I can't someone who's going to go, I can't believe she said that. I can't believe believe she said that. I can't believe believe she said that. I can't believe she did that. and and just kind of feeds she did that. and and just kind of feeds she did that. and and just kind of feeds our sense of I am the wrong party and our sense of I am the wrong party and our sense of I am the wrong party and you know so and so has done uh wrong by you know so and so has done uh wrong by you know so and so has done uh wrong by me and so what we really need is to look me and so what we really need is to look me and so what we really need is to look for that person who who's going to be for that person who who's going to be for that person who who's going to be straightforward with us about our own straightforward with us about our own straightforward with us about our own part our ownership part our ownership part our ownership of this issue of this issue of this issue >> let's gossip about her right now >> let's gossip about her right now >> let's gossip about her right now >> honestly yeah I mean it's [laughter] >> honestly yeah I mean it's [laughter] >> honestly yeah I mean it's [laughter] right I mean so So, we're looking for right I mean so So, we're looking for right I mean so So, we're looking for someone who's godly enough to go, "Yes, someone who's godly enough to go, "Yes, someone who's godly enough to go, "Yes, but maybe that wasn't what she was going but maybe that wasn't what she was going but maybe that wasn't what she was going for." And yes, but maybe there's this for." And yes, but maybe there's this for." And yes, but maybe there's this thing about you. You know, maybe it had thing about you. You know, maybe it had thing about you. You know, maybe it had to do with the way you asked. Or the to do with the way you asked. Or the to do with the way you asked. Or the person who's godly enough to say, "Yeah, person who's godly enough to say, "Yeah, person who's godly enough to say, "Yeah, but maybe you're jumping to some some but maybe you're jumping to some some but maybe you're jumping to some some conclusions conclusions conclusions about what's her motive was." or maybe

about what's her motive was." or maybe about what's her motive was." or maybe you're ignoring some realities about you're ignoring some realities about you're ignoring some realities about what she's dealing with and what would what she's dealing with and what would what she's dealing with and what would have prompted her to respond that way or have prompted her to respond that way or have prompted her to respond that way or to do that. And so, so it's honestly, to do that. And so, so it's honestly, to do that. And so, so it's honestly, you know, it's not a huge number of you know, it's not a huge number of you know, it's not a huge number of people in my life. I mean, I am blessed people in my life. I mean, I am blessed people in my life. I mean, I am blessed with so many godly friends, but if we're with so many godly friends, but if we're with so many godly friends, but if we're going to choose the person to talk going to choose the person to talk going to choose the person to talk through about this conflict, we really through about this conflict, we really through about this conflict, we really do want to choose someone who is do want to choose someone who is do want to choose someone who is spiritually mature enough to recognize spiritually mature enough to recognize spiritually mature enough to recognize that there are always two sides to the that there are always two sides to the that there are always two sides to the story and is maybe going to force us to story and is maybe going to force us to story and is maybe going to force us to look at the other side. And also someone look at the other side. And also someone look at the other side. And also someone who's godly enough that has the who's godly enough that has the who's godly enough that has the integrity that she's going to keep it integrity that she's going to keep it integrity that she's going to keep it confidential, confidential, confidential, that it that it really isn't going to that it that it really isn't going to that it that it really isn't going to keep going on. Um I but even before we keep going on. Um I but even before we keep going on. Um I but even before we maybe you've got that person but even maybe you've got that person but even maybe you've got that person but even before you go I think we do have to before you go I think we do have to before you go I think we do have to examine our motive. Um examine our motive. Um examine our motive. Um >> and honestly a lot of times I don't want >> and honestly a lot of times I don't want >> and honestly a lot of times I don't want to um what I really want to do is vent to um what I really want to do is vent to um what I really want to do is vent and what I really want to do is to and what I really want to do is to and what I really want to do is to justify myself. Well, I liked it when justify myself. Well, I liked it when justify myself. Well, I liked it when you were talking about that whole I you were talking about that whole I you were talking about that whole I didn't like it, but it resonated that didn't like it, but it resonated that didn't like it, but it resonated that whole idea like we try to build teams, whole idea like we try to build teams, whole idea like we try to build teams, right? We try to get everybody on our right? We try to get everybody on our right? We try to get everybody on our like I'm going to tell you the story so like I'm going to tell you the story so like I'm going to tell you the story so that you hear it from my side and you that you hear it from my side and you that you hear it from my side and you know I build like my team of support but know I build like my team of support but know I build like my team of support but also as you were talking I thought I also as you were talking I thought I also as you were talking I thought I want to grow in my ability to be the want to grow in my ability to be the want to grow in my ability to be the type of friend you're describing so that type of friend you're describing so that type of friend you're describing so that when my friends come to me that I am

when my friends come to me that I am when my friends come to me that I am that person who doesn't just agree with that person who doesn't just agree with that person who doesn't just agree with everything and and and really even grow everything and and and really even grow everything and and and really even grow and promote just the bitterness and and and promote just the bitterness and and and promote just the bitterness and and arrogance and all of the things you arrogance and all of the things you arrogance and all of the things you mentioned in their own heart, but mentioned in their own heart, but mentioned in their own heart, but actually comes alongside and says like, actually comes alongside and says like, actually comes alongside and says like, "Let's let's look at this in an "Let's let's look at this in an "Let's let's look at this in an open-handed way." And so, open-handed way." And so, open-handed way." And so, >> let's let's try to assume the best >> let's let's try to assume the best >> let's let's try to assume the best >> of someone else together. >> of someone else together. >> of someone else together. >> Together. >> Together. >> Together. >> Yeah. I I thought that was really Yeah. >> Yeah. I I thought that was really Yeah. >> Yeah. I I thought that was really Yeah. really helpful and convicting. And I really helpful and convicting. And I really helpful and convicting. And I want to be that person. Okay. Another want to be that person. Okay. Another want to be that person. Okay. Another question for you, Nancy. Um, somebody question for you, Nancy. Um, somebody question for you, Nancy. Um, somebody sent in, "What are some godly ways to sent in, "What are some godly ways to sent in, "What are some godly ways to bless and support my husband who doesn't bless and support my husband who doesn't bless and support my husband who doesn't express affection the way I would like?" express affection the way I would like?" express affection the way I would like?" And you know, we had an entire episode And you know, we had an entire episode And you know, we had an entire episode where uh Melissa interviewed um Anne where uh Melissa interviewed um Anne where uh Melissa interviewed um Anne Wilson on when you want to change your Wilson on when you want to change your Wilson on when you want to change your husband. So, we'd refer people back to husband. So, we'd refer people back to husband. So, we'd refer people back to that, too. But what what would you say? that, too. But what what would you say? that, too. But what what would you say? >> It's a tough one, isn't it? because we >> It's a tough one, isn't it? because we >> It's a tough one, isn't it? because we are so hungry for affection are so hungry for affection are so hungry for affection and we can be so demanding that it's and we can be so demanding that it's and we can be so demanding that it's delivered to us delivered to us delivered to us in the form in which we want it. So in the form in which we want it. So in the form in which we want it. So um um um I I think a couple of thoughts. First of I I think a couple of thoughts. First of I I think a couple of thoughts. First of all, I think we have to be ready to give all, I think we have to be ready to give all, I think we have to be ready to give generous affirmation when our husbands generous affirmation when our husbands generous affirmation when our husbands do something the way we do enjoy it. and do something the way we do enjoy it. and do something the way we do enjoy it. and the way we hoped it would come to us.

the way we hoped it would come to us. the way we hoped it would come to us. And so And so And so and to not even couch it with any and to not even couch it with any and to not even couch it with any criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love it when you do that. I love it when you it when you do that. I love it when you it when you do that. I love it when you say that." I mean, you know, so for me, say that." I mean, you know, so for me, say that." I mean, you know, so for me, like, you know, I'll be standing in the like, you know, I'll be standing in the like, you know, I'll be standing in the kitchen and David will come and he'll kitchen and David will come and he'll kitchen and David will come and he'll get behind me and put his arms around me get behind me and put his arms around me get behind me and put his arms around me and I want to say, "I love it when you and I want to say, "I love it when you and I want to say, "I love it when you do that." And and I think that helps us do that." And and I think that helps us do that." And and I think that helps us not only um for him to continue to do not only um for him to continue to do not only um for him to continue to do that one thing. I think that gives our that one thing. I think that gives our that one thing. I think that gives our husbands a taste of husbands a taste of husbands a taste of I like it. Boy, it feels good to have I like it. Boy, it feels good to have I like it. Boy, it feels good to have given my wife some joy and some given my wife some joy and some given my wife some joy and some pleasure. And so I think that makes him pleasure. And so I think that makes him pleasure. And so I think that makes him want to do some other things maybe that want to do some other things maybe that want to do some other things maybe that we're really hoping he will do. That's we're really hoping he will do. That's we're really hoping he will do. That's so true and so fun. We have another so true and so fun. We have another so true and so fun. We have another guest on here. guest on here. guest on here. >> Who is it? >> Who is it? >> Who is it? >> Can you not see her? >> Can you not see her? >> Can you not see her? >> Yes, I can. >> Yes, I can. >> Yes, I can. >> I [laughter] can. >> I [laughter] can. >> I [laughter] can. We were [gasps] just We were [gasps] just We were [gasps] just >> Everybody probably knows from the laugh, >> Everybody probably knows from the laugh, >> Everybody probably knows from the laugh, you know. Exactly. We weren't gossiping you know. Exactly. We weren't gossiping you know. Exactly. We weren't gossiping about Jen, were we here?

about Jen, were we here? about Jen, were we here? >> That's >> That's >> That's >> We were not. Nancy wouldn't let us. >> We were not. Nancy wouldn't let us. >> We were not. Nancy wouldn't let us. >> Only nice things. >> Only nice things. >> Only nice things. >> Nancy got the gossip question. >> Nancy got the gossip question. >> Nancy got the gossip question. [laughter] Jen, [laughter] Jen, [laughter] Jen, >> how is it there in where you are? >> how is it there in where you are? >> how is it there in where you are? >> It's good. Jeff is um bathing all three >> It's good. Jeff is um bathing all three >> It's good. Jeff is um bathing all three grandchildren right now. I can hear grandchildren right now. I can hear grandchildren right now. I can hear them. I don't know if you'll be able to them. I don't know if you'll be able to them. I don't know if you'll be able to hear them. It sounds like a herd of hear them. It sounds like a herd of hear them. It sounds like a herd of cattle. cattle. cattle. >> We were just talking about how to show >> We were just talking about how to show >> We were just talking about how to show affection. I mean, that's a serious way affection. I mean, that's a serious way affection. I mean, that's a serious way to show affection to your right. A to show affection to your right. A to show affection to your right. A worthwhile thing. Yeah. worthwhile thing. Yeah. worthwhile thing. Yeah. >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and he I texted him. I go, I'm not on yet. he I texted him. I go, I'm not on yet. he I texted him. I go, I'm not on yet. And he goes, I was stalling up here And he goes, I was stalling up here And he goes, I was stalling up here waiting for you to come help me give waiting for you to come help me give waiting for you to come help me give them baths. I was like, them baths. I was like, them baths. I was like, >> that's so funny. Tell him tell him the >> that's so funny. Tell him tell him the >> that's so funny. Tell him tell him the deep dish did not run on that time on deep dish did not run on that time on deep dish did not run on that time on that time frame today. that time frame today. that time frame today. >> He had a birthday party to get >> He had a birthday party to get >> He had a birthday party to get >> here mean I have to go away. Oh, no. You >> here mean I have to go away. Oh, no. You >> here mean I have to go away. Oh, no. You can you can sit. The more the marrier can you can sit. The more the marrier can you can sit. The more the marrier the party. No, [laughter] the party. No, [laughter] the party. No, [laughter] we have we have yet another special we have we have yet another special we have we have yet another special guest that's going to join us in a guest that's going to join us in a guest that's going to join us in a minute. minute. minute. >> I'm gonna let you give Jen your full >> I'm gonna let you give Jen your full >> I'm gonna let you give Jen your full attention. But Jen, I'm very happy to attention. But Jen, I'm very happy to attention. But Jen, I'm very happy to see you. If see you. If see you. If >> I'm happy to see you, too. I know.

>> I'm happy to see you, too. I know. >> I'm happy to see you, too. I know. >> Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. >> Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. >> Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. >> All right. I'll see you guys later. >> All right. I'll see you guys later. >> All right. I'll see you guys later. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. [laughter] >> Bye. [laughter] >> Bye. [laughter] Well, Jen, thanks for popping in to our Well, Jen, thanks for popping in to our Well, Jen, thanks for popping in to our birthday party. We're we're pretty birthday party. We're we're pretty birthday party. We're we're pretty excited about this. excited about this. excited about this. >> Oh my gosh. Happy birthday, guys. >> Oh my gosh. Happy birthday, guys. >> Oh my gosh. Happy birthday, guys. >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is we got this slew of questions from we got this slew of questions from we got this slew of questions from listeners and so we're bringing in our listeners and so we're bringing in our listeners and so we're bringing in our friends to answer them because we think friends to answer them because we think friends to answer them because we think you guys will do a better job. So, we're you guys will do a better job. So, we're you guys will do a better job. So, we're going to we saved all the hard ones for going to we saved all the hard ones for going to we saved all the hard ones for you and and Nancy and for our third you and and Nancy and for our third you and and Nancy and for our third guest who's still a surprise. I know. Uh guest who's still a surprise. I know. Uh guest who's still a surprise. I know. Uh but thanks for being such an integral but thanks for being such an integral but thanks for being such an integral part of the deep dish this year. you part of the deep dish this year. you part of the deep dish this year. you were in our kickoff episode, your uh were in our kickoff episode, your uh were in our kickoff episode, your uh some of the episodes you did on on aging some of the episodes you did on on aging some of the episodes you did on on aging that uh continues to be one that people that uh continues to be one that people that uh continues to be one that people have really it's really resonated and have really it's really resonated and have really it's really resonated and and helped. And so, thanks for just and helped. And so, thanks for just and helped. And so, thanks for just being a part of this with us. Now, what being a part of this with us. Now, what being a part of this with us. Now, what we need to do is get deep dish pizza we need to do is get deep dish pizza we need to do is get deep dish pizza next time we're all together. For sure. next time we're all together. For sure. next time we're all together. For sure. Okay. So, here's one that we want to ask Okay. So, here's one that we want to ask Okay. So, here's one that we want to ask you for sure. When a passage of you for sure. When a passage of you for sure. When a passage of scripture is confusing, how long do you scripture is confusing, how long do you scripture is confusing, how long do you sit with the tension before or the sit with the tension before or the sit with the tension before or the dissonance as you would say before dissonance as you would say before dissonance as you would say before seeking outside resources or answers?

seeking outside resources or answers? seeking outside resources or answers? >> Yeah, it's obviously it's going to >> Yeah, it's obviously it's going to >> Yeah, it's obviously it's going to depend on what kind of question you're depend on what kind of question you're depend on what kind of question you're dealing with like what genre are you in. dealing with like what genre are you in. dealing with like what genre are you in. Some of the genres are easier to Some of the genres are easier to Some of the genres are easier to understand than others, but I would say understand than others, but I would say understand than others, but I would say that the general idea you want to think that the general idea you want to think that the general idea you want to think about is move slowly toward consulting about is move slowly toward consulting about is move slowly toward consulting commentaries. So, the first thing I commentaries. So, the first thing I commentaries. So, the first thing I would do if something is confusing is I would do if something is confusing is I would do if something is confusing is I would read it in several different would read it in several different would read it in several different translations and see if that helps clear translations and see if that helps clear translations and see if that helps clear it up. And then the second thing I would it up. And then the second thing I would it up. And then the second thing I would do is I would ask, wait a minute, has do is I would ask, wait a minute, has do is I would ask, wait a minute, has this been talked about before in the this been talked about before in the this been talked about before in the book that I'm reading? Does it show up book that I'm reading? Does it show up book that I'm reading? Does it show up afterwards in the book that I'm reading? afterwards in the book that I'm reading? afterwards in the book that I'm reading? So, look at the immediate context and So, look at the immediate context and So, look at the immediate context and then ask, you know, wait a minute, does then ask, you know, wait a minute, does then ask, you know, wait a minute, does this show up somewhere in the this show up somewhere in the this show up somewhere in the surrounding books? Does it show up in surrounding books? Does it show up in surrounding books? Does it show up in the Old Testament somewhere else? Those the Old Testament somewhere else? Those the Old Testament somewhere else? Those kinds of things. Um, and so pay a lot of kinds of things. Um, and so pay a lot of kinds of things. Um, and so pay a lot of attention to just what does the Bible attention to just what does the Bible attention to just what does the Bible have to say to help me interpret this have to say to help me interpret this have to say to help me interpret this before you go to a commentary because before you go to a commentary because before you go to a commentary because that's what a commentator is going to that's what a commentator is going to that's what a commentator is going to do. And then when you get to a do. And then when you get to a do. And then when you get to a commentary, you'll have a better sense commentary, you'll have a better sense commentary, you'll have a better sense of whether you are making progress in of whether you are making progress in of whether you are making progress in your own ability to let the context your own ability to let the context your own ability to let the context that's already there um help you sort that's already there um help you sort that's already there um help you sort through what something might mean. And through what something might mean. And through what something might mean. And also always keeping in mind those those also always keeping in mind those those also always keeping in mind those those first few diagnostic questions that we first few diagnostic questions that we first few diagnostic questions that we start with with any book of the Bible, start with with any book of the Bible, start with with any book of the Bible, the who, what, when, where, and why, the who, what, when, where, and why, the who, what, when, where, and why, that kind of a thing. That's that's good that kind of a thing. That's that's good that kind of a thing. That's that's good because I what I like about that is I because I what I like about that is I because I what I like about that is I actually like it when I have to have actually like it when I have to have actually like it when I have to have that time where I think and then if you that time where I think and then if you that time where I think and then if you go to the commentary and they say what go to the commentary and they say what go to the commentary and they say what you were thinking, you're like, great, you were thinking, you're like, great, you were thinking, you're like, great, I'm not a heretic. Or you're like, uhoh, I'm not a heretic. Or you're like, uhoh, I'm not a heretic. Or you're like, uhoh, my thought was original. Maybe I am a

my thought was original. Maybe I am a my thought was original. Maybe I am a heretic. like I [laughter] need to go heretic. like I [laughter] need to go heretic. like I [laughter] need to go back and forth things. back and forth things. back and forth things. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. It's a helpful check because we do It's a helpful check because we do It's a helpful check because we do believe in a historical church. You believe in a historical church. You believe in a historical church. You know, we we do um you know, in a sense know, we we do um you know, in a sense know, we we do um you know, in a sense want to learn collectively from the word want to learn collectively from the word want to learn collectively from the word and from each other. But, um that's a and from each other. But, um that's a and from each other. But, um that's a that's a really helpful helpful way to that's a really helpful helpful way to that's a really helpful helpful way to think through how to do it. Um to think through how to do it. Um to think through how to do it. Um to actually know what we're thinking before actually know what we're thinking before actually know what we're thinking before we go in. Well, here's another easy one we go in. Well, here's another easy one we go in. Well, here's another easy one for you. I have been trying to answer for you. I have been trying to answer for you. I have been trying to answer this question for probably 25 years this question for probably 25 years this question for probably 25 years because that's how old Emma is. So, I've because that's how old Emma is. So, I've because that's how old Emma is. So, I've been trying to answer it in my own head been trying to answer it in my own head been trying to answer it in my own head for a long time. How can parents with for a long time. How can parents with for a long time. How can parents with young children take a Sabbath day? young children take a Sabbath day? young children take a Sabbath day? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Tell us. This is so timely because actually, you This is so timely because actually, you know, Jeff and I are here with these know, Jeff and I are here with these know, Jeff and I are here with these small children and I'm thinking, do we small children and I'm thinking, do we small children and I'm thinking, do we get to go to bed at any point? get to go to bed at any point? get to go to bed at any point? um you forget pretty quickly just how um you forget pretty quickly just how um you forget pretty quickly just how much energy goes into taking care of much energy goes into taking care of much energy goes into taking care of little children. Um so anyway, just for little children. Um so anyway, just for little children. Um so anyway, just for those who are going to hear my response, those who are going to hear my response, those who are going to hear my response, just know that I'm actually living the just know that I'm actually living the just know that I'm actually living the dream with you right now um in in this dream with you right now um in in this dream with you right now um in in this very moment as we're doing this very moment as we're doing this very moment as we're doing this interview. So um I think that when we interview. So um I think that when we interview. So um I think that when we think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm in some some of the same way that I in some some of the same way that I in some some of the same way that I answered the previous question. Um do answered the previous question. Um do answered the previous question. Um do you have a heart turned toward Sabbath?

you have a heart turned toward Sabbath? you have a heart turned toward Sabbath? In other words, does it just feel like, In other words, does it just feel like, In other words, does it just feel like, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, I really I want to be able to Sabbath um I really I want to be able to Sabbath um I really I want to be able to Sabbath um as a family um and keeping in mind that as a family um and keeping in mind that as a family um and keeping in mind that Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is an opportunity to um Sabbath is an opportunity to um Sabbath is an opportunity to um experience the goodness of God together experience the goodness of God together experience the goodness of God together um through the sessation of typical um through the sessation of typical um through the sessation of typical daily activities for the purpose of ones daily activities for the purpose of ones daily activities for the purpose of ones that are perhaps more focused on that are perhaps more focused on that are perhaps more focused on relationship building and tend toward relationship building and tend toward relationship building and tend toward worship." And so I tend to think of it worship." And so I tend to think of it worship." And so I tend to think of it more like um even when I had small more like um even when I had small more like um even when I had small children, if I had a house guest coming children, if I had a house guest coming children, if I had a house guest coming to stay, I prepared ahead for that house to stay, I prepared ahead for that house to stay, I prepared ahead for that house guest because I wanted to be able to guest because I wanted to be able to guest because I wanted to be able to give them my full attention in so much give them my full attention in so much give them my full attention in so much as I had full attention to give with as I had full attention to give with as I had full attention to give with small children when they were actually small children when they were actually small children when they were actually there. So I thought ahead about how can there. So I thought ahead about how can there. So I thought ahead about how can I make sure that meals are going to take I make sure that meals are going to take I make sure that meals are going to take little as little effort as possible when little as little effort as possible when little as little effort as possible when the person is here, but they're still the person is here, but they're still the person is here, but they're still going to be delicious and an enjoyable going to be delicious and an enjoyable going to be delicious and an enjoyable time together. um how do I think about time together. um how do I think about time together. um how do I think about activities that we can do with this activities that we can do with this activities that we can do with this person that will be enjoyable that person that will be enjoyable that person that will be enjoyable that aren't going to require so much effort aren't going to require so much effort aren't going to require so much effort that we can't actually all enter in or that we can't actually all enter in or that we can't actually all enter in or if I'm going to be distracted during all if I'm going to be distracted during all if I'm going to be distracted during all that. And so I think thinking about that. And so I think thinking about that. And so I think thinking about Sabbath is is a similar practice. We're Sabbath is is a similar practice. We're Sabbath is is a similar practice. We're we're in in a sense inviting the Lord as we're in in a sense inviting the Lord as we're in in a sense inviting the Lord as our table guest um on that day. And then our table guest um on that day. And then our table guest um on that day. And then that means that we are going to do some that means that we are going to do some that means that we are going to do some work before Sabbath so that we don't work before Sabbath so that we don't work before Sabbath so that we don't work on the Sabbath. And so that's and work on the Sabbath. And so that's and work on the Sabbath. And so that's and that's an Old Testament principle. they that's an Old Testament principle. they that's an Old Testament principle. they collected more mana the day before uh collected more mana the day before uh collected more mana the day before uh the seventh day so that they wouldn't the seventh day so that they wouldn't the seventh day so that they wouldn't have to go out and collect on that day.

have to go out and collect on that day. have to go out and collect on that day. Um but on top of all of this, what I Um but on top of all of this, what I Um but on top of all of this, what I want young parents to hear me say is want young parents to hear me say is want young parents to hear me say is just do what you can. Um set your heart just do what you can. Um set your heart just do what you can. Um set your heart on the right principle and then over on the right principle and then over on the right principle and then over time watch how it becomes more and more time watch how it becomes more and more time watch how it becomes more and more a regular rhythm as your children get a regular rhythm as your children get a regular rhythm as your children get older. The Lord, I always say this with older. The Lord, I always say this with older. The Lord, I always say this with quiet time practices, with Bible study quiet time practices, with Bible study quiet time practices, with Bible study practices, the Lord knows your stage of practices, the Lord knows your stage of practices, the Lord knows your stage of life better than you do. Um, and he life better than you do. Um, and he life better than you do. Um, and he knows your heart. So, honor him in your knows your heart. So, honor him in your knows your heart. So, honor him in your heart and as far as you're able in your heart and as far as you're able in your heart and as far as you're able in your practices so that you have a trajectory practices so that you have a trajectory practices so that you have a trajectory even if you don't have an immediate, you even if you don't have an immediate, you even if you don't have an immediate, you know, hey everyone, I'm going to know, hey everyone, I'm going to know, hey everyone, I'm going to Instagram this Sabbath. That was so Instagram this Sabbath. That was so Instagram this Sabbath. That was so amazing [laughter] amazing [laughter] amazing [laughter] >> with sourdough >> with sourdough >> with sourdough for sure. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Dr. Vanessa K. Hawkins is in the house. >> Dr. Vanessa K. Hawkins is in the house. >> Dr. Vanessa K. Hawkins is in the house. It's not really a party until Vanessa It's not really a party until Vanessa It's not really a party until Vanessa shows up. You know that, right? shows up. You know that, right? shows up. You know that, right? >> This was the four four person sitting on >> This was the four four person sitting on >> This was the four four person sitting on the pillows. We were all on the pillows the pillows. We were all on the pillows the pillows. We were all on the pillows together. Do y'all remember?

together. Do y'all remember? together. Do y'all remember? >> Yes. That ended up So, what Melissa's >> Yes. That ended up So, what Melissa's >> Yes. That ended up So, what Melissa's talking about is when we first started talking about is when we first started talking about is when we first started recording the deep dish, we all were in recording the deep dish, we all were in recording the deep dish, we all were in Dallas together at an Airbnb and we the Dallas together at an Airbnb and we the Dallas together at an Airbnb and we the chairs weren't tall enough. So, we put chairs weren't tall enough. So, we put chairs weren't tall enough. So, we put pillows on the chairs, but then it pillows on the chairs, but then it pillows on the chairs, but then it showed up in all the photos [laughter] showed up in all the photos [laughter] showed up in all the photos [laughter] and so it's like very obvious. So, I and so it's like very obvious. So, I and so it's like very obvious. So, I just want to reiterate what I have said just want to reiterate what I have said just want to reiterate what I have said a thousand times. We are professionals. a thousand times. We are professionals. a thousand times. We are professionals. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> We are bringing it. >> We are bringing it. >> We are bringing it. >> We We are topnotch. We really know what >> We We are topnotch. We really know what >> We We are topnotch. We really know what we're doing here. [laughter] we're doing here. [laughter] we're doing here. [laughter] >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I'm I'm actually in my slippers right >> I'm I'm actually in my slippers right >> I'm I'm actually in my slippers right now, but y'all probably [clears throat] now, but y'all probably [clears throat] now, but y'all probably [clears throat] didn't need to know that. didn't need to know that. didn't need to know that. Okay. Well, Jen, I know you got to go be Okay. Well, Jen, I know you got to go be Okay. Well, Jen, I know you got to go be with those babies. Thanks for hopping with those babies. Thanks for hopping with those babies. Thanks for hopping on. It wouldn't have been a birthday on. It wouldn't have been a birthday on. It wouldn't have been a birthday party if you hadn't if you hadn't. So, party if you hadn't if you hadn't. So, party if you hadn't if you hadn't. So, thanks for taking the time to do that. thanks for taking the time to do that. thanks for taking the time to do that. >> Thanks, guys. And happy first birthday. >> Thanks, guys. And happy first birthday. >> Thanks, guys. And happy first birthday. I hope you grow into a teenager. I hope you grow into a teenager. I hope you grow into a teenager. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Thanks, friend. Bye, Vanessa. We're so >> Thanks, friend. Bye, Vanessa. We're so >> Thanks, friend. Bye, Vanessa. We're so glad you're here. glad you're here. glad you're here. >> It's good to be here. Always good to see >> It's good to be here. Always good to see >> It's good to be here. Always good to see you guys. Yes. you guys. Yes. you guys. Yes. >> Um, what we are doing to celebrate our >> Um, what we are doing to celebrate our >> Um, what we are doing to celebrate our birthday is we asked listeners to toss birthday is we asked listeners to toss birthday is we asked listeners to toss some questions out there to us, but some questions out there to us, but some questions out there to us, but instead of us answering them, we're instead of us answering them, we're instead of us answering them, we're we're just bringing in all of the we're just bringing in all of the we're just bringing in all of the experts. uh and friends to answer some experts. uh and friends to answer some experts. uh and friends to answer some of these questions. Well, we would love of these questions. Well, we would love of these questions. Well, we would love to toss some of the hard ones your way to toss some of the hard ones your way to toss some of the hard ones your way because [laughter] because [laughter] because [laughter] and like Melissa said at the beginning, and like Melissa said at the beginning, and like Melissa said at the beginning, our listeners do not offer fluffy our listeners do not offer fluffy our listeners do not offer fluffy questions. I mean, these are good and questions. I mean, these are good and questions. I mean, these are good and they are deep and uh yeah, so I'm going they are deep and uh yeah, so I'm going they are deep and uh yeah, so I'm going to toss the first one over to you. So, to toss the first one over to you. So, to toss the first one over to you. So, this was a question that a listener this was a question that a listener this was a question that a listener submitted. How do you allow

submitted. How do you allow submitted. How do you allow disappointment disappointment disappointment to deepen your dependence? And can we to deepen your dependence? And can we to deepen your dependence? And can we just like stop and reflect on that just like stop and reflect on that just like stop and reflect on that beautiful alliteration? How do you allow beautiful alliteration? How do you allow beautiful alliteration? How do you allow disappointment to deepen your dependence disappointment to deepen your dependence disappointment to deepen your dependence on God rather than, and here it is on God rather than, and here it is on God rather than, and here it is again, harden your heart? So, I'm just again, harden your heart? So, I'm just again, harden your heart? So, I'm just impressed with the semantics of the impressed with the semantics of the impressed with the semantics of the question, but question, but question, but >> this is clearly a reformed person. This >> this is clearly a reformed person. This >> this is clearly a reformed person. This is clearly is clearly is clearly >> Right. Exactly. But I mean, what a great >> Right. Exactly. But I mean, what a great >> Right. Exactly. But I mean, what a great question, right? Disappointment can just question, right? Disappointment can just question, right? Disappointment can just >> It is. It was a great question for you >> It is. It was a great question for you >> It is. It was a great question for you guys. And now you've got me on here. guys. And now you've got me on here. guys. And now you've got me on here. Yeah. How how do you let disappointment Yeah. How how do you let disappointment Yeah. How how do you let disappointment deepen your dependence? Yeah, it is a deepen your dependence? Yeah, it is a deepen your dependence? Yeah, it is a it's a it is a great question. Yeah, I it's a it is a great question. Yeah, I it's a it is a great question. Yeah, I think with disappointment, I think over think with disappointment, I think over think with disappointment, I think over time time time becoming convinced that in becoming convinced that in becoming convinced that in disappointment disappointment disappointment that uh the Lord really doesn't withhold that uh the Lord really doesn't withhold that uh the Lord really doesn't withhold anything good from me. I I think that anything good from me. I I think that anything good from me. I I think that over over time I've become convinced of over over time I've become convinced of over over time I've become convinced of that truth and that um to and to be able that truth and that um to and to be able that truth and that um to and to be able to sit with the disappointment and to to sit with the disappointment and to to sit with the disappointment and to know that he's not a a a God that just know that he's not a a a God that just know that he's not a a a God that just arbitrarily allows things in my life or arbitrarily allows things in my life or arbitrarily allows things in my life or u withholds things from my life. But if u withholds things from my life. But if u withholds things from my life. But if it's something that I'm longing for and it's something that I'm longing for and it's something that I'm longing for and I'm not getting in this moment or I'm not getting in this moment or I'm not getting in this moment or something that I was planning to do and something that I was planning to do and something that I was planning to do and and I'm not getting to do at this moment and I'm not getting to do at this moment and I'm not getting to do at this moment and it doesn't happen, I have become and it doesn't happen, I have become and it doesn't happen, I have become more apt to now go back to the Lord and more apt to now go back to the Lord and more apt to now go back to the Lord and say, "Well, you know, I really thought say, "Well, you know, I really thought say, "Well, you know, I really thought that that was going to happen or to to that that was going to happen or to to that that was going to happen or to to be able to voice that." but to also be able to voice that." but to also be able to voice that." but to also receive from him that um if you're not

receive from him that um if you're not receive from him that um if you're not allowing it right now in this moment or allowing it right now in this moment or allowing it right now in this moment or if it's not looking the way that I if it's not looking the way that I if it's not looking the way that I thought it should look that you're thought it should look that you're thought it should look that you're really not withholding good from me and really not withholding good from me and really not withholding good from me and that the good that you have for me is that the good that you have for me is that the good that you have for me is better than what I thought I needed in better than what I thought I needed in better than what I thought I needed in this moment. And so I think it's it's a this moment. And so I think it's it's a this moment. And so I think it's it's a matter of trust over time as you kind of matter of trust over time as you kind of matter of trust over time as you kind of do in any relationship, right? You build do in any relationship, right? You build do in any relationship, right? You build trust over time. And I think it's trust over time. And I think it's trust over time. And I think it's trusting that the things that I have trusting that the things that I have trusting that the things that I have been disappointed about um you know over been disappointed about um you know over been disappointed about um you know over time I can say in many of those cases time I can say in many of those cases time I can say in many of those cases that wow you really weren't withholding that wow you really weren't withholding that wow you really weren't withholding what was good from me. You you I can what was good from me. You you I can what was good from me. You you I can really trust you in that. So really trust you in that. So really trust you in that. So >> that's so good. That's such like a um >> that's so good. That's such like a um >> that's so good. That's such like a um wow. It's such a maturing process, wow. It's such a maturing process, wow. It's such a maturing process, right? That doesn't happen easily. right? That doesn't happen easily. right? That doesn't happen easily. >> You're right. Yes. >> You're right. Yes. >> You're right. Yes. >> You know, and I think we get there the >> You know, and I think we get there the >> You know, and I think we get there the longer we've walked with the Lord. We longer we've walked with the Lord. We longer we've walked with the Lord. We maybe get there sooner. Hopefully. maybe get there sooner. Hopefully. maybe get there sooner. Hopefully. Hopefully. Some days. Sometimes. Hopefully. Some days. Sometimes. Hopefully. Some days. Sometimes. >> Yeah. Um and and sometimes it depends on >> Yeah. Um and and sometimes it depends on >> Yeah. Um and and sometimes it depends on the disappointment too, Melissa. Right. the disappointment too, Melissa. Right. the disappointment too, Melissa. Right. >> Because and what the what the >> Because and what the what the >> Because and what the what the disappointment is concerning. There are disappointment is concerning. There are disappointment is concerning. There are certain things I get there quicker with certain things I get there quicker with certain things I get there quicker with with my children. Sometimes maybe not.

with my children. Sometimes maybe not. with my children. Sometimes maybe not. You know, it just it it depends. You know, it just it it depends. You know, it just it it depends. [clears throat] It it kind of depends. [clears throat] It it kind of depends. [clears throat] It it kind of depends. But it is a maturation process. But it is a maturation process. But it is a maturation process. >> You're right. >> You're right. >> You're right. >> Yeah. I've started speaking that to >> Yeah. I've started speaking that to >> Yeah. I've started speaking that to myself when I'm feeling the why is it myself when I'm feeling the why is it myself when I'm feeling the why is it going this way or whatever. I the the going this way or whatever. I the the going this way or whatever. I the the truth I try to say is it has to be for truth I try to say is it has to be for truth I try to say is it has to be for my good. It's it somehow I mean it ha my good. It's it somehow I mean it ha my good. It's it somehow I mean it ha like he's going to work this for my like he's going to work this for my like he's going to work this for my good. He has promised he will but like good. He has promised he will but like good. He has promised he will but like and now is the moment for me to try to and now is the moment for me to try to and now is the moment for me to try to believe that like he you know to let believe that like he you know to let believe that like he you know to let that settle me in it but still feel the that settle me in it but still feel the that settle me in it but still feel the disappointment, feel the sadness, feel disappointment, feel the sadness, feel disappointment, feel the sadness, feel the hardness. I don't think I the hardness. I don't think I the hardness. I don't think I >> feel that >> feel that >> feel that >> and take that to him too. Yeah. >> and take that to him too. Yeah. >> and take that to him too. Yeah. >> Yeah. and then yet at the same moment be >> Yeah. and then yet at the same moment be >> Yeah. and then yet at the same moment be like but he has promised in every single like but he has promised in every single like but he has promised in every single thing and what would it how would it thing and what would it how would it thing and what would it how would it change this moment if I actually change this moment if I actually change this moment if I actually believed it in this moment and that believed it in this moment and that believed it in this moment and that sometimes it's but it's a battle I mean sometimes it's but it's a battle I mean sometimes it's but it's a battle I mean like it's a fight for our minds to you like it's a fight for our minds to you like it's a fight for our minds to you know turn um and talk to ourselves know turn um and talk to ourselves know turn um and talk to ourselves because it's just so much easier to be because it's just so much easier to be because it's just so much easier to be like well there is no way I cannot see a like well there is no way I cannot see a like well there is no way I cannot see a way um as if I can see everything which way um as if I can see everything which way um as if I can see everything which I cannot. So anyway, it's always that um I cannot. So anyway, it's always that um I cannot. So anyway, it's always that um okay well that thank you for that first okay well that thank you for that first okay well that thank you for that first one taking taking that one on easier one taking taking that one on easier one taking taking that one on easier now, right? They're gonna get easier now, right? They're gonna get easier now, right? They're gonna get easier now.

now. now. >> Super easy. Oh, this one's super easy. >> Super easy. Oh, this one's super easy. >> Super easy. Oh, this one's super easy. No, no problem. Let's see what you got. No, no problem. Let's see what you got. No, no problem. Let's see what you got. >> Um so how does loving someone well, what >> Um so how does loving someone well, what >> Um so how does loving someone well, what does loving someone well look like when does loving someone well look like when does loving someone well look like when you feel misunderstood by them or not you feel misunderstood by them or not you feel misunderstood by them or not seen by them? So how do we love well? seen by them? So how do we love well? seen by them? So how do we love well? That's easy, right? I'm sure it just That's easy, right? I'm sure it just That's easy, right? I'm sure it just overflows. It's so simple to do. overflows. It's so simple to do. overflows. It's so simple to do. >> How did we do that? How do we do that? >> How did we do that? How do we do that? >> How did we do that? How do we do that? Well, Well, Well, >> you just went from from from hard to >> you just went from from from hard to >> you just went from from from hard to harder, Melissa. Okay. Um, so when harder, Melissa. Okay. Um, so when harder, Melissa. Okay. Um, so when you're feeling um misunderstood or you're feeling um misunderstood or you're feeling um misunderstood or unseen, that's the question, right? Um, unseen, that's the question, right? Um, unseen, that's the question, right? Um, I think with misunderstanding, as a as a I think with misunderstanding, as a as a I think with misunderstanding, as a as a person who communicates a lot, I long to person who communicates a lot, I long to person who communicates a lot, I long to communicate well. And I I think if if if communicate well. And I I think if if if communicate well. And I I think if if if I think that someone didn't understand I think that someone didn't understand I think that someone didn't understand what I said or what my intent my what I said or what my intent my what I said or what my intent my intentions were, I think I'm apt to just intentions were, I think I'm apt to just intentions were, I think I'm apt to just ask good questions. Um and to keep ask good questions. Um and to keep ask good questions. Um and to keep listening so that I can understand how listening so that I can understand how listening so that I can understand how what I said landed or um you know and so what I said landed or um you know and so what I said landed or um you know and so and I might even ask you know how did and I might even ask you know how did and I might even ask you know how did what I say land on you? Can you help me what I say land on you? Can you help me what I say land on you? Can you help me to hear it the way that you heard it? Um to hear it the way that you heard it? Um to hear it the way that you heard it? Um and so [clears throat] I think that and so [clears throat] I think that and so [clears throat] I think that sometimes that is it. and then longing sometimes that is it. and then longing sometimes that is it. and then longing to hear more than I long to be to hear more than I long to be to hear more than I long to be understood, too. I mean, so if I'm if understood, too. I mean, so if I'm if understood, too. I mean, so if I'm if I'm communicating, I'm longing to be I'm communicating, I'm longing to be I'm communicating, I'm longing to be understood, but also I'm longing to understood, but also I'm longing to understood, but also I'm longing to understand and I'm wanting to know how understand and I'm wanting to know how understand and I'm wanting to know how my words are landing. So, um, so that so my words are landing. So, um, so that so my words are landing. So, um, so that so if I if I think that there's a point of if I if I think that there's a point of if I if I think that there's a point of misunderstanding, misunderstanding, misunderstanding, uh, I'm probably just going to be prone

uh, I'm probably just going to be prone uh, I'm probably just going to be prone to ask good questions, um, until I get to ask good questions, um, until I get to ask good questions, um, until I get some clarity about, um, what it is that some clarity about, um, what it is that some clarity about, um, what it is that I said and maybe a way that I can say it I said and maybe a way that I can say it I said and maybe a way that I can say it differently so that it can land. I think differently so that it can land. I think differently so that it can land. I think that that's the thing and that that's the thing and that that's the thing and misunderstanding and in not being seen. misunderstanding and in not being seen. misunderstanding and in not being seen. Man, I think that that has probably Man, I think that that has probably Man, I think that that has probably changed over the years. Um changed over the years. Um changed over the years. Um um there's sometimes now I don't want to um there's sometimes now I don't want to um there's sometimes now I don't want to be seen. [laughter] So it's sad. be seen. [laughter] So it's sad. be seen. [laughter] So it's sad. That's true. But I I I think it's um That's true. But I I I think it's um That's true. But I I I think it's um asking some heart questions about well asking some heart questions about well asking some heart questions about well one, why does it bother me that I wasn't one, why does it bother me that I wasn't one, why does it bother me that I wasn't acknowledged or seen? um is there acknowledged or seen? um is there acknowledged or seen? um is there something in me or is there something something in me or is there something something in me or is there something systematically happening that maybe am I systematically happening that maybe am I systematically happening that maybe am I being not seen or am I being ignored so being not seen or am I being ignored so being not seen or am I being ignored so one I think one implies intent right and one I think one implies intent right and one I think one implies intent right and the other is it could be how I'm the other is it could be how I'm the other is it could be how I'm perceiving it so I think asking myself perceiving it so I think asking myself perceiving it so I think asking myself some of those hard questions about all some of those hard questions about all some of those hard questions about all right am am I not being seen or what is right am am I not being seen or what is right am am I not being seen or what is it in me that's saying you're not seeing it in me that's saying you're not seeing it in me that's saying you're not seeing me and so I think maybe probing my own me and so I think maybe probing my own me and so I think maybe probing my own heart a bit um and then if it's if I'm heart a bit um and then if it's if I'm heart a bit um and then if it's if I'm being ignored if I'm if I'm picking up being ignored if I'm if I'm picking up being ignored if I'm if I'm picking up on uh kind of maybe some repeat behavior on uh kind of maybe some repeat behavior on uh kind of maybe some repeat behavior that I'm kind of being ignored. I think that I'm kind of being ignored. I think that I'm kind of being ignored. I think that that's different. I think that that that's different. I think that that that's different. I think that that's um you know that's a conversation that's um you know that's a conversation that's um you know that's a conversation that's hey let's let's chat about this.

that's hey let's let's chat about this. that's hey let's let's chat about this. This is making me feel this way and This is making me feel this way and This is making me feel this way and giving people all kinds of grace and giving people all kinds of grace and giving people all kinds of grace and saying hey I know you didn't you know saying hey I know you didn't you know saying hey I know you didn't you know likely mean it this way but this is how likely mean it this way but this is how likely mean it this way but this is how I'm experiencing you. Um and having I'm experiencing you. Um and having I'm experiencing you. Um and having [clears throat] those kinds of [clears throat] those kinds of [clears throat] those kinds of conversations if necessary. conversations if necessary. conversations if necessary. >> That's so good. Um yeah, and just like >> That's so good. Um yeah, and just like >> That's so good. Um yeah, and just like we want to say thank you to our we want to say thank you to our we want to say thank you to our listeners for trusting us with these listeners for trusting us with these listeners for trusting us with these really hard questions and it's just we really hard questions and it's just we really hard questions and it's just we are just rejoicing in like God's are just rejoicing in like God's are just rejoicing in like God's faithfulness to us through these faithfulness to us through these faithfulness to us through these conversations and just the kindness and conversations and just the kindness and conversations and just the kindness and encouragement that we've received over encouragement that we've received over encouragement that we've received over the past year in the ways the Lord is the past year in the ways the Lord is the past year in the ways the Lord is using these conversations in your life. using these conversations in your life. using these conversations in your life. And then obviously our hearts are And then obviously our hearts are And then obviously our hearts are rejoicing over our friends and partners rejoicing over our friends and partners rejoicing over our friends and partners in ministry that we get to to do this in ministry that we get to to do this in ministry that we get to to do this with. And so Vanessa, thanks for hopping with. And so Vanessa, thanks for hopping with. And so Vanessa, thanks for hopping on, for celebrating with us, for joining on, for celebrating with us, for joining on, for celebrating with us, for joining us once again, for just offering your us once again, for just offering your us once again, for just offering your wisdom to the listeners. Um I know that wisdom to the listeners. Um I know that wisdom to the listeners. Um I know that it's always a treat um for me and for it's always a treat um for me and for it's always a treat um for me and for them. And so we're just really grateful.

them. And so we're just really grateful. them. And so we're just really grateful. But so we we do love to end every But so we we do love to end every But so we we do love to end every episode with a question that's just a episode with a question that's just a episode with a question that's just a little bit lighter. Oh, okay. I mean, it little bit lighter. Oh, okay. I mean, it little bit lighter. Oh, okay. I mean, it has to be almost, right? has to be almost, right? has to be almost, right? >> Here's my question for you today. And >> Here's my question for you today. And >> Here's my question for you today. And Vanessa, because I'm the one asking it Vanessa, because I'm the one asking it Vanessa, because I'm the one asking it and I'm asking you, there is actually a and I'm asking you, there is actually a and I'm asking you, there is actually a right answer [clears throat] to this. right answer [clears throat] to this. right answer [clears throat] to this. >> I'm sorry, Vanessa. I didn't know she >> I'm sorry, Vanessa. I didn't know she >> I'm sorry, Vanessa. I didn't know she [laughter] was going to do this to you. [laughter] was going to do this to you. [laughter] was going to do this to you. >> Take me out. Take me out. You know I'm >> Take me out. Take me out. You know I'm >> Take me out. Take me out. You know I'm on your team. Vanessa, come on. I'm on your team. Vanessa, come on. I'm on your team. Vanessa, come on. I'm sending you I'm sending you all the sending you I'm sending you all the sending you I'm sending you all the brain waves on this one. Okay, here's brain waves on this one. Okay, here's brain waves on this one. Okay, here's the question. the question. the question. >> This is scary. What is >> This is scary. What is >> This is scary. What is the best party you've ever been the best party you've ever been the best party you've ever been [laughter] to? [laughter] to? [laughter] to? >> The best party? I mean, it has to be a >> The best party? I mean, it has to be a >> The best party? I mean, it has to be a Courtney Doctor party. Courtney Doctor party. Courtney Doctor party. >> Well, right. Yes, for sure. >> Well, right. Yes, for sure. >> Well, right. Yes, for sure. >> Yeah, probably the 50th. Seriously, >> Yeah, probably the 50th. Seriously, >> Yeah, probably the 50th. Seriously, >> you got it, girl. [screaming] >> you got it, girl. [screaming] >> you got it, girl. [screaming] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> I was not invited to Courtney's 50th >> I was not invited to Courtney's 50th >> I was not invited to Courtney's 50th birthday. birthday. birthday. >> You were actually, >> You were actually, >> You were actually, you know, too busy. Just kidding. But you know, too busy. Just kidding. But you know, too busy. Just kidding. But no. Okay, you can answer it for real. no. Okay, you can answer it for real. no. Okay, you can answer it for real. What is actually the best party you've What is actually the best party you've What is actually the best party you've ever been to?

ever been to? ever been to? >> No, that that that's sincerely would be >> No, that that that's sincerely would be >> No, that that that's sincerely would be one of the top cuz that was just lovely. one of the top cuz that was just lovely. one of the top cuz that was just lovely. It was beautiful. It was restorative. It It was beautiful. It was restorative. It It was beautiful. It was restorative. It was connecting. It was like all of my was connecting. It was like all of my was connecting. It was like all of my favorite things. favorite things. favorite things. >> It was so fun. We had a group, a small >> It was so fun. We had a group, a small >> It was so fun. We had a group, a small group of women go together to a group of women go together to a group of women go together to a lakehouse and it was in November, but I lakehouse and it was in November, but I lakehouse and it was in November, but I made everybody get on the lake anyway made everybody get on the lake anyway made everybody get on the lake anyway because I'm like, you know, obsessed because I'm like, you know, obsessed because I'm like, you know, obsessed with the water and so everybody's all with the water and so everybody's all with the water and so everybody's all bundled up and yeah, it was it was very bundled up and yeah, it was it was very bundled up and yeah, it was it was very fun. But a good party is all those fun. But a good party is all those fun. But a good party is all those things. It's relational, restorative. I things. It's relational, restorative. I things. It's relational, restorative. I like how you I like how you said that. like how you I like how you said that. like how you I like how you said that. So, uh, the next one of us that has a So, uh, the next one of us that has a So, uh, the next one of us that has a big birthday, let's do let's do one of big birthday, let's do let's do one of big birthday, let's do let's do one of those parties. those parties. those parties. >> The next dish party number two should be >> The next dish party number two should be >> The next dish party number two should be at the lake at the lake at the lake >> and we can get some chairs that don't >> and we can get some chairs that don't >> and we can get some chairs that don't require pillows for us to sit on. require pillows for us to sit on. require pillows for us to sit on. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Oo, we could sit around and add >> Oo, we could sit around and add >> Oo, we could sit around and add aderondex and have Yeah, because there's aderondex and have Yeah, because there's aderondex and have Yeah, because there's a lot of questions that were submitted a lot of questions that were submitted a lot of questions that were submitted that we did not get to and so we could that we did not get to and so we could that we did not get to and so we could sit around in aderondex and Yeah, we sit around in aderondex and Yeah, we sit around in aderondex and Yeah, we are. Sorry. We love We love We're are. Sorry. We love We love We're are. Sorry. We love We love We're reading them all and we're thinking reading them all and we're thinking reading them all and we're thinking about them and we're super impressed about them and we're super impressed about them and we're super impressed with with you all and your questions, with with you all and your questions, with with you all and your questions, but these are the ones that that made but these are the ones that that made but these are the ones that that made the cut. So, I hope that this episode the cut. So, I hope that this episode the cut. So, I hope that this episode has served you well, that you have has served you well, that you have has served you well, that you have enjoyed it, that you have celebrated enjoyed it, that you have celebrated enjoyed it, that you have celebrated with us, that you received this as a with us, that you received this as a with us, that you received this as a gift of gratitude um for joining us in gift of gratitude um for joining us in gift of gratitude um for joining us in this first year. We'll see what year two this first year. We'll see what year two this first year. We'll see what year two looks like. We are excited. We've looks like. We are excited. We've looks like. We are excited. We've already started thinking about it and already started thinking about it and already started thinking about it and talking about it. So, um thank you.

talking about it. So, um thank you. talking about it. So, um thank you. Thank you for being a part of the deep Thank you for being a part of the deep Thank you for being a part of the deep dish community. And if you have found dish community. And if you have found dish community. And if you have found this conversation or this podcast this conversation or this podcast this conversation or this podcast helpful, would you please like, helpful, would you please like, helpful, would you please like, subscribe, leave a review, leave a subscribe, leave a review, leave a subscribe, leave a review, leave a comment, share with a friend, and uh we comment, share with a friend, and uh we comment, share with a friend, and uh we would like to and then [music] support would like to and then [music] support would like to and then [music] support TGC because we would like to continue TGC because we would like to continue TGC because we would like to continue making more content like this. So happy making more content like this. So happy making more content like this. So happy birthday to all of us and [music] thanks birthday to all of us and [music] thanks birthday to all of us and [music] thanks for being a part of the deep dish for being a part of the deep dish for being a part of the deep dish community.