The Dish on Gossip [The Deep Dish - Ep. 20]

But I think sin gets painted, and again, But I think sin gets painted, and again, we were talking about this a little bit we were talking about this a little bit we were talking about this a little bit earlier, as the thing we're being kept earlier, as the thing we're being kept earlier, as the thing we're being kept from. That's what Satan did. He painted from. That's what Satan did. He painted from. That's what Satan did. He painted it as the one thing you can't have. That it as the one thing you can't have. That it as the one thing you can't have. That would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun to just chitchat with Courtney about to just chitchat with Courtney about to just chitchat with Courtney about this, you know, like I can just, oh, this, you know, like I can just, oh, this, you know, like I can just, oh, it's going to keep us from fun. And I it's going to keep us from fun. And I it's going to keep us from fun. And I just think sometimes we need to take a just think sometimes we need to take a just think sometimes we need to take a really hard look at the ugliness and really hard look at the ugliness and really hard look at the ugliness and misery of sin, not so that we feel misery of sin, not so that we feel misery of sin, not so that we feel condemned by it. Mhm. condemned by it. Mhm. condemned by it. Mhm. >> So that we hate it and want to spit it >> So that we hate it and want to spit it >> So that we hate it and want to spit it out. [Music] [Music] >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I'm Courtney Doctor and I'm here truths. I'm Courtney Doctor and I'm here truths. I'm Courtney Doctor and I'm here with my friend and co-host Melissa with my friend and co-host Melissa with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. And today, it just hurts to Krueger. And today, it just hurts to Krueger. And today, it just hurts to even say it. Today we are going to talk even say it. Today we are going to talk even say it. Today we are going to talk about gossip. And you know, let me just about gossip. And you know, let me just about gossip. And you know, let me just start by saying it's it's hard, right? start by saying it's it's hard, right? start by saying it's it's hard, right? It's hard not to gossip. I think for all It's hard not to gossip. I think for all It's hard not to gossip. I think for all of us, it's it's easy to mask something of us, it's it's easy to mask something of us, it's it's easy to mask something as concern. And you know, let's be as concern. And you know, let's be as concern. And you know, let's be honest, we kind of like talking about honest, we kind of like talking about honest, we kind of like talking about others. And we're going to talk more others. And we're going to talk more others. And we're going to talk more about that. So, what I want to do is about that. So, what I want to do is about that. So, what I want to do is start by uh getting a definition, start by uh getting a definition, start by uh getting a definition, Melissa, of gossip. But before you do Melissa, of gossip. But before you do Melissa, of gossip. But before you do that, I was going to share with you. You that, I was going to share with you. You that, I was going to share with you. You know, have you ever heard of your like know, have you ever heard of your like know, have you ever heard of your like birthday verse or your golden verse or birthday verse or your golden verse or birthday verse or your golden verse or whatever it is or you look up in whatever it is or you look up in whatever it is or you look up in Proverbs? Well, mine Proverbs 11:13 cuz Proverbs? Well, mine Proverbs 11:13 cuz Proverbs? Well, mine Proverbs 11:13 cuz I'm November 13th.

I'm November 13th. I'm November 13th. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, years ago, I got so excited. >> So, years ago, I got so excited. >> So, years ago, I got so excited. Somebody said, "Yeah, you have like a, Somebody said, "Yeah, you have like a, Somebody said, "Yeah, you have like a, you know, birthday verse or whatever you know, birthday verse or whatever you know, birthday verse or whatever it's called." And so, I ran to look it it's called." And so, I ran to look it it's called." And so, I ran to look it up and this is what it says in the NIV, up and this is what it says in the NIV, up and this is what it says in the NIV, which is what I was reading when um I which is what I was reading when um I which is what I was reading when um I was told to look this up. Proverbs 11:13 was told to look this up. Proverbs 11:13 was told to look this up. Proverbs 11:13 says, "A gossip betrays a confidence, says, "A gossip betrays a confidence, says, "A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy person keeps a but a trustworthy person keeps a but a trustworthy person keeps a secret." And so, here I am, a new secret." And so, here I am, a new secret." And so, here I am, a new believer in my 20s, and I just was like, believer in my 20s, and I just was like, believer in my 20s, and I just was like, Lord, so even early on in my Christian Lord, so even early on in my Christian Lord, so even early on in my Christian walk, the Lord was like, "Girl, don't do walk, the Lord was like, "Girl, don't do walk, the Lord was like, "Girl, don't do it. Don't do it." So, what is it we are it. Don't do it." So, what is it we are it. Don't do it." So, what is it we are trying not to do? How would you define trying not to do? How would you define trying not to do? How would you define gossip? Okay, I'm totally sidetracked. gossip? Okay, I'm totally sidetracked. gossip? Okay, I'm totally sidetracked. I've never heard about the Proverbs with I've never heard about the Proverbs with I've never heard about the Proverbs with the birthday thing. the birthday thing. the birthday thing. >> Okay, listen. For anybody who has >> Okay, listen. For anybody who has >> Okay, listen. For anybody who has listened to all of our podcasts, back me listened to all of our podcasts, back me listened to all of our podcasts, back me up on this. I mentioned it on another on up on this. I mentioned it on another on up on this. I mentioned it on another on another deep dish podcast. another deep dish podcast. another deep dish podcast. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> back put that in the comments. Please >> back put that in the comments. Please >> back put that in the comments. Please back me up. I am pretty sure I talked back me up. I am pretty sure I talked back me up. I am pretty sure I talked about like our birthday proverb in about like our birthday proverb in about like our birthday proverb in another in another deep I probably just another in another deep I probably just another in another deep I probably just was like, "Oh." Mhm. pretending like I was like, "Oh." Mhm. pretending like I was like, "Oh." Mhm. pretending like I knew what that was and had no idea what knew what that was and had no idea what knew what that was and had no idea what that was. I'm like, that's really fun.

that was. I'm like, that's really fun. that was. I'm like, that's really fun. Now I'm like totally intrigued to go see Now I'm like totally intrigued to go see Now I'm like totally intrigued to go see what Proverbs 3:23 is. And it's probably what Proverbs 3:23 is. And it's probably what Proverbs 3:23 is. And it's probably like something about like murdered angry like something about like murdered angry like something about like murdered angry person. person. person. >> Oh, I'm going to look it up while you >> Oh, I'm going to look it up while you >> Oh, I'm going to look it up while you define gossip. Don't even think that I define gossip. Don't even think that I define gossip. Don't even think that I won't. It'll probably be something about won't. It'll probably be something about won't. It'll probably be something about like the righteous woman this or that. like the righteous woman this or that. like the righteous woman this or that. >> I'm scared to know what it is. >> I'm scared to know what it is. >> I'm scared to know what it is. >> Well, I'm going to tell you. But um it's >> Well, I'm going to tell you. But um it's >> Well, I'm going to tell you. But um it's so funny even when you started with the so funny even when you started with the so funny even when you started with the phrase we're going to talk today about phrase we're going to talk today about phrase we're going to talk today about gossip. It sounds like we're gossiping gossip. It sounds like we're gossiping gossip. It sounds like we're gossiping about gossip. I mean I'm so like woo. Um about gossip. I mean I'm so like woo. Um about gossip. I mean I'm so like woo. Um okay because this is such a tough topic okay because this is such a tough topic okay because this is such a tough topic and I would say even for me when I've and I would say even for me when I've and I would say even for me when I've thought about defining this in the past. thought about defining this in the past. thought about defining this in the past. I've had a lot of like Melissa I've had a lot of like Melissa I've had a lot of like Melissa definitions of gossip you know. Um, so definitions of gossip you know. Um, so definitions of gossip you know. Um, so one of those would have been one of those would have been one of those would have been saying something bad about someone saying something bad about someone saying something bad about someone behind their back. behind their back. behind their back. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Which I think that's what we often think >> Which I think that's what we often think >> Which I think that's what we often think of, but I've realized it's much more of, but I've realized it's much more of, but I've realized it's much more expansive than just saying something bad expansive than just saying something bad expansive than just saying something bad about someone behind their back. Um, and about someone behind their back. Um, and about someone behind their back. Um, and so I actually looked up some so I actually looked up some so I actually looked up some definitions. So we'll throw these out.

definitions. So we'll throw these out. definitions. So we'll throw these out. These are, you know, Websters or These are, you know, Websters or These are, you know, Websters or whatever, Google, whatever, you know, whatever, Google, whatever, you know, whatever, Google, whatever, you know, but hopefully they'll help us get us but hopefully they'll help us get us but hopefully they'll help us get us started. And I thought these were really started. And I thought these were really started. And I thought these were really interesting. This is one definition. interesting. This is one definition. interesting. This is one definition. Casual or unconstrained Casual or unconstrained Casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other conversation or reports about other conversation or reports about other people typically involving events that people typically involving events that people typically involving events that are not confirmed as being true. So are not confirmed as being true. So are not confirmed as being true. So they're just not confirmed as being they're just not confirmed as being they're just not confirmed as being true. So that's something. And then in true. So that's something. And then in true. So that's something. And then in the biblical context, gossip is broadly the biblical context, gossip is broadly the biblical context, gossip is broadly understood as idle harmful talk about understood as idle harmful talk about understood as idle harmful talk about others often involving secrets or others often involving secrets or others often involving secrets or rumors. It can range from spreading rumors. It can range from spreading rumors. It can range from spreading rumors and secrets to casting doubts rumors and secrets to casting doubts rumors and secrets to casting doubts upon a charact person's character or upon a charact person's character or upon a charact person's character or actions. Essentially, it is any talk actions. Essentially, it is any talk actions. Essentially, it is any talk that is not beneficial that is not beneficial that is not beneficial or truthful about another person. or truthful about another person. or truthful about another person. >> Let's just stop talking now. >> Let's just stop talking now. >> Let's just stop talking now. >> Right. That's so I like the idol piece >> Right. That's so I like the idol piece >> Right. That's so I like the idol piece of that. Like that's do you and I have of that. Like that's do you and I have of that. Like that's do you and I have shared this on another episode that we shared this on another episode that we shared this on another episode that we had that little had that little had that little >> Do you remember this one? >> Do you remember this one? >> Do you remember this one? >> Yeah. Okay. that there was that little >> Yeah. Okay. that there was that little >> Yeah. Okay. that there was that little piece of paper, you know, growing up on piece of paper, you know, growing up on piece of paper, you know, growing up on our phone desk that said little people our phone desk that said little people our phone desk that said little people talk about other people. And then it talk about other people. And then it talk about other people. And then it went on to say average people talk about went on to say average people talk about went on to say average people talk about things and great people talk about things and great people talk about things and great people talk about ideas. And we've already discussed the ideas. And we've already discussed the ideas. And we've already discussed the merits and you know the pros and cons of merits and you know the pros and cons of merits and you know the pros and cons of that statement. But the reality is it that statement. But the reality is it that statement. But the reality is it stuck with me. Little people talk about stuck with me. Little people talk about stuck with me. Little people talk about people. So I'm seeing this theme in my people. So I'm seeing this theme in my people. So I'm seeing this theme in my life all of a sudden that I hadn't seen life all of a sudden that I hadn't seen life all of a sudden that I hadn't seen before. So I grow up with this thing on before. So I grow up with this thing on before. So I grow up with this thing on the phone desk in front of me. Little the phone desk in front of me. Little the phone desk in front of me. Little people talk about other people. Then the people talk about other people. Then the people talk about other people. Then the my birthday proverb is about gossiping.

my birthday proverb is about gossiping. my birthday proverb is about gossiping. And then do you know what the very first And then do you know what the very first And then do you know what the very first verse that I memorized out of all of verse that I memorized out of all of verse that I memorized out of all of scripture was? Ephesians 4:29. scripture was? Ephesians 4:29. scripture was? Ephesians 4:29. >> I was wondering. >> I was wondering. >> I was wondering. >> Do not let any unh wholesome talk come >> Do not let any unh wholesome talk come >> Do not let any unh wholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is out of your mouths, but only what is out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according helpful for building others up according helpful for building others up according to their needs that it may benefit all to their needs that it may benefit all to their needs that it may benefit all who listen. Now, I think we need to who listen. Now, I think we need to who listen. Now, I think we need to unpack that. But that idle talk, that's unpack that. But that idle talk, that's unpack that. But that idle talk, that's what when you when you mentioned that in what when you when you mentioned that in what when you when you mentioned that in this definition, I was like, "Oh, that's this definition, I was like, "Oh, that's this definition, I was like, "Oh, that's it's idle to just not to not have it be it's idle to just not to not have it be it's idle to just not to not have it be beneficial to not have the words that we beneficial to not have the words that we beneficial to not have the words that we speak benefit not just those that we're speak benefit not just those that we're speak benefit not just those that we're speaking to, but to benefit anybody else speaking to, but to benefit anybody else speaking to, but to benefit anybody else who's listening to honestly, how does it who's listening to honestly, how does it who's listening to honestly, how does it benefit ourselves?" And so anyway, oh, benefit ourselves?" And so anyway, oh, benefit ourselves?" And so anyway, oh, I'm I'm now really excited to talk about I'm I'm now really excited to talk about I'm I'm now really excited to talk about this. Maybe it's maybe this is the place this. Maybe it's maybe this is the place this. Maybe it's maybe this is the place the Lord's been bringing me all these the Lord's been bringing me all these the Lord's been bringing me all these years to really dig deep into into years to really dig deep into into years to really dig deep into into gossip. But let's start with what what gossip. But let's start with what what gossip. But let's start with what what do the scriptures say? Um besides do the scriptures say? Um besides do the scriptures say? Um besides Ephesians 4:29. Ephesians 4:29. Ephesians 4:29. >> Yeah, Ephesians 4:29 is so good. I mean, >> Yeah, Ephesians 4:29 is so good. I mean, >> Yeah, Ephesians 4:29 is so good. I mean, I remember we used to say that to each I remember we used to say that to each I remember we used to say that to each other like Ephesians 4:29. It was kind other like Ephesians 4:29. It was kind other like Ephesians 4:29. It was kind of like the way you stopped gossip. I of like the way you stopped gossip. I of like the way you stopped gossip. I mean, you know, it was high school. You mean, you know, it was high school. You mean, you know, it was high school. You could do that kind of thing or whatever.

could do that kind of thing or whatever. could do that kind of thing or whatever. We'd be like Ephesians 4:29. I'm not We'd be like Ephesians 4:29. I'm not We'd be like Ephesians 4:29. I'm not going to say anything. going to say anything. going to say anything. >> I was not telling people Ephesians 4:29 >> I was not telling people Ephesians 4:29 >> I was not telling people Ephesians 4:29 in high school, just so everybody out in high school, just so everybody out in high school, just so everybody out there. there. there. >> Well, we had an interesting friend >> Well, we had an interesting friend >> Well, we had an interesting friend group. But anyway, but I think there are group. But anyway, but I think there are group. But anyway, but I think there are some really good um verses. One that some really good um verses. One that some really good um verses. One that just comes to mind that we I didn't even just comes to mind that we I didn't even just comes to mind that we I didn't even write down the verse reference is when write down the verse reference is when write down the verse reference is when words are many, sin is not absent. words are many, sin is not absent. words are many, sin is not absent. >> And so I think there is just a reality >> And so I think there is just a reality >> And so I think there is just a reality we live in a words culture right now. Um we live in a words culture right now. Um we live in a words culture right now. Um I mean we have so many ways to express I mean we have so many ways to express I mean we have so many ways to express ourselves. Thanks Instagram. Thanks ourselves. Thanks Instagram. Thanks ourselves. Thanks Instagram. Thanks Facebook. Thanks Twitter. I mean, you Facebook. Thanks Twitter. I mean, you Facebook. Thanks Twitter. I mean, you know, before I might be able to just know, before I might be able to just know, before I might be able to just tell you something, tell you something, tell you something, >> but now words are very many >> but now words are very many >> but now words are very many >> and sin is not absent. And probably one >> and sin is not absent. And probably one >> and sin is not absent. And probably one of those sins is going to be gossip. of those sins is going to be gossip. of those sins is going to be gossip. That's probably the the easiest of the That's probably the the easiest of the That's probably the the easiest of the bunch. We might get to slander. We might bunch. We might get to slander. We might bunch. We might get to slander. We might get to lying, but gossip's probably get to lying, but gossip's probably get to lying, but gossip's probably right right up there. But another one's right right up there. But another one's right right up there. But another one's and this one's really painful. This is and this one's really painful. This is and this one's really painful. This is Proverbs 16:28. Proverbs 16:28. Proverbs 16:28. A dishonest man spreads strife and a A dishonest man spreads strife and a A dishonest man spreads strife and a whisperer separates close friends.

whisperer separates close friends. whisperer separates close friends. >> You know, it's like you start to see the >> You know, it's like you start to see the >> You know, it's like you start to see the effects, effects, effects, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Of a whisperer, >> Of a whisperer, >> Of a whisperer, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Like just like lean in close, listen to >> Like just like lean in close, listen to >> Like just like lean in close, listen to what I have to say. what I have to say. what I have to say. >> To whisper, you need to ask yourself >> To whisper, you need to ask yourself >> To whisper, you need to ask yourself why. Like who do you not want to hear? why. Like who do you not want to hear? why. Like who do you not want to hear? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's right. Whispers should be about >> that's right. Whispers should be about >> that's right. Whispers should be about good surprises. Let's just say that. good surprises. Let's just say that. good surprises. Let's just say that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like >> Like >> Like >> we have a joke in our family. One of uh >> we have a joke in our family. One of uh >> we have a joke in our family. One of uh my daughter's friends mothers would say, my daughter's friends mothers would say, my daughter's friends mothers would say, I probably shouldn't even share this. I probably shouldn't even share this. I probably shouldn't even share this. It's so it's not It's so it's not It's so it's not >> Here we go. >> Here we go. >> Here we go. >> Here we go. Here we go. Unhinged. Um >> Here we go. Here we go. Unhinged. Um >> Here we go. Here we go. Unhinged. Um it's theologically not sound. So just it's theologically not sound. So just it's theologically not sound. So just let me But she would say a whisper is a let me But she would say a whisper is a let me But she would say a whisper is a lie and a lie is a sin. Can't even say lie and a lie is a sin. Can't even say lie and a lie is a sin. Can't even say it. And when you get to heaven, you it. And when you get to heaven, you it. And when you get to heaven, you won't get in. won't get in. won't get in. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So we might cut that. We might cut that. So we might cut that. We might cut that. So we might cut that. We might cut that. Yeah. Yeah. Theologically we don't Yeah. Yeah. Theologically we don't Yeah. Yeah. Theologically we don't align, but it's good to think about what align, but it's good to think about what align, but it's good to think about what we're about. we're about. we're about. >> Yeah. It's like when I have to lower my >> Yeah. It's like when I have to lower my >> Yeah. It's like when I have to lower my voice, voice, voice, should I be saying what I what I'm should I be saying what I what I'm should I be saying what I what I'm saying? You know, unless you're a mother saying? You know, unless you're a mother saying? You know, unless you're a mother disciplining cuz you know, when I was disciplining cuz you know, when I was disciplining cuz you know, when I was disciplining, when I got real quiet, the disciplining, when I got real quiet, the disciplining, when I got real quiet, the children knew it was bad. Or like that's children knew it was bad. Or like that's children knew it was bad. Or like that's your scary voice, Mom. It's not loud.

your scary voice, Mom. It's not loud. your scary voice, Mom. It's not loud. It's real real quiet. Yeah. Well, what It's real real quiet. Yeah. Well, what It's real real quiet. Yeah. Well, what about you? like what verses come to mind about you? like what verses come to mind about you? like what verses come to mind when you think about gossip when you think about gossip when you think about gossip specifically? specifically? specifically? >> Yeah, besides the Ephesians verse and a >> Yeah, besides the Ephesians verse and a >> Yeah, besides the Ephesians verse and a ton of verses in Proverbs and a ton of ton of verses in Proverbs and a ton of ton of verses in Proverbs and a ton of verses in James, right? I mean, they're verses in James, right? I mean, they're verses in James, right? I mean, they're just like like the tongue is just full just like like the tongue is just full just like like the tongue is just full of all this. I think about that verse in of all this. I think about that verse in of all this. I think about that verse in James actually all the time where it's James actually all the time where it's James actually all the time where it's like, you know, you both the these two like, you know, you both the these two like, you know, you both the these two types of water, fresh water and and types of water, fresh water and and types of water, fresh water and and salty water should not come from the salty water should not come from the salty water should not come from the same spring. And I think, you know, same spring. And I think, you know, same spring. And I think, you know, especially as a Bible teacher, like I especially as a Bible teacher, like I especially as a Bible teacher, like I want my words to be lifegiving. I want want my words to be lifegiving. I want want my words to be lifegiving. I want them I want I want to be speaking the them I want I want to be speaking the them I want I want to be speaking the word of God. And then how often is the word of God. And then how often is the word of God. And then how often is the same spring my mouth being used for two same spring my mouth being used for two same spring my mouth being used for two different purposes. So that's a really different purposes. So that's a really different purposes. So that's a really convicting one. I remember in James convicting one. I remember in James convicting one. I remember in James because you wrote the Bible study because you wrote the Bible study because you wrote the Bible study steadfast on it and you had the drawing steadfast on it and you had the drawing steadfast on it and you had the drawing of the rudder and the bitten bridal, of the rudder and the bitten bridal, of the rudder and the bitten bridal, >> you know, and it was that powerful like >> you know, and it was that powerful like >> you know, and it was that powerful like the rudder is so small the rudder is so small the rudder is so small >> but it directs the whole ship.

>> but it directs the whole ship. >> but it directs the whole ship. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it was such a the visual image of it >> And it was such a the visual image of it >> And it was such a the visual image of it made me stop and pause and be like, "Oh, made me stop and pause and be like, "Oh, made me stop and pause and be like, "Oh, a very little thing." A very little a very little thing." A very little a very little thing." A very little thing. Really powerful. Yeah, James is thing. Really powerful. Yeah, James is thing. Really powerful. Yeah, James is so good. so good. so good. >> I had my draw those draw those for us >> I had my draw those draw those for us >> I had my draw those draw those for us because the bit again in the horse's because the bit again in the horse's because the bit again in the horse's mouth, it's so small compared to the mouth, it's so small compared to the mouth, it's so small compared to the horse. And I remember reading one time horse. And I remember reading one time horse. And I remember reading one time that our tongue is like that our tongue is like that our tongue is like >> 3 and 1/2 in 8 oz. I don't know. It's >> 3 and 1/2 in 8 oz. I don't know. It's >> 3 and 1/2 in 8 oz. I don't know. It's like it's this little, you know, slab of like it's this little, you know, slab of like it's this little, you know, slab of whatever it's made out of. It's a whatever it's made out of. It's a whatever it's made out of. It's a muscle, but it's, you know, it's Yeah. muscle, but it's, you know, it's Yeah. muscle, but it's, you know, it's Yeah. Anyway, it's just this nasty little Anyway, it's just this nasty little Anyway, it's just this nasty little thing, but it's so little. but it can thing, but it's so little. but it can thing, but it's so little. but it can just do so much harm. And so also in just do so much harm. And so also in just do so much harm. And so also in Romans, you know, the first three and a Romans, you know, the first three and a Romans, you know, the first three and a half um two and a half chapters in half um two and a half chapters in half um two and a half chapters in Romans are just all about this idea that Romans are just all about this idea that Romans are just all about this idea that the wrath of God is being revealed the wrath of God is being revealed the wrath of God is being revealed against the wickedness in the world. And against the wickedness in the world. And against the wickedness in the world. And guess what's listed there in the first guess what's listed there in the first guess what's listed there in the first chapter of Romans? Romans 1:29 it says chapter of Romans? Romans 1:29 it says chapter of Romans? Romans 1:29 it says they were filled with all manner of they were filled with all manner of they were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, unrighteousness, unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are evil, covetousness, malice. They are evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness.

maliciousness. maliciousness. They are gossips. I'm just like, what? They are gossips. I'm just like, what? They are gossips. I'm just like, what? Murderers, evil, unrighteous, and Murderers, evil, unrighteous, and Murderers, evil, unrighteous, and gossiping. Like it's a it it's a it's a gossiping. Like it's a it it's a it's a gossiping. Like it's a it it's a it's a serious thing to stop and ponder. serious thing to stop and ponder. serious thing to stop and ponder. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The weight of our words and to kind of >> The weight of our words and to kind of >> The weight of our words and to kind of accumulate these passages together about accumulate these passages together about accumulate these passages together about what the Lord thinks. what the Lord thinks. what the Lord thinks. >> Yeah. Cuz we just think it's not that >> Yeah. Cuz we just think it's not that >> Yeah. Cuz we just think it's not that big of a deal. big of a deal. big of a deal. >> Yeah. You know, and I'm putting this >> Yeah. You know, and I'm putting this >> Yeah. You know, and I'm putting this together. I mean, sometimes it's it's together. I mean, sometimes it's it's together. I mean, sometimes it's it's like, oh, yeah. like, oh, yeah. like, oh, yeah. And how did the whole world fall? On a And how did the whole world fall? On a And how did the whole world fall? On a lie. on a lie. lie. on a lie. lie. on a lie. >> How did the whole world start on a spe >> How did the whole world start on a spe >> How did the whole world start on a spe God spoke? God spoke? God spoke? >> With a word. Yeah. A word. >> With a word. Yeah. A word. >> With a word. Yeah. A word. >> Yeah. I've heard it said before that, >> Yeah. I've heard it said before that, >> Yeah. I've heard it said before that, you know, God's words are omnipotent, you know, God's words are omnipotent, you know, God's words are omnipotent, but our words are potent but our words are potent but our words are potent >> and that we need to like give pause for >> and that we need to like give pause for >> and that we need to like give pause for that. And so, yeah, our words can be that. And so, yeah, our words can be that. And so, yeah, our words can be right. God's words spoke everything into right. God's words spoke everything into right. God's words spoke everything into existence. It's the it's the ultimate existence. It's the it's the ultimate existence. It's the it's the ultimate lifegiving. He created life by his word.

lifegiving. He created life by his word. lifegiving. He created life by his word. And so our words can be life-giving. We And so our words can be life-giving. We And so our words can be life-giving. We should have a whole episode on that on should have a whole episode on that on should have a whole episode on that on what life-giving words. what life-giving words. what life-giving words. >> I love that verse. Reckless words pierce >> I love that verse. Reckless words pierce >> I love that verse. Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise like a sword, but the tongue of the wise like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. It's that exact picture. brings healing. It's that exact picture. brings healing. It's that exact picture. Our words can bring healing or they can Our words can bring healing or they can Our words can bring healing or they can be like sword thrust. be like sword thrust. be like sword thrust. >> Right? So why is it so damaging? Because >> Right? So why is it so damaging? Because >> Right? So why is it so damaging? Because I think we tend to just it's just such I think we tend to just it's just such I think we tend to just it's just such an excusable sin, right? So clearly it's an excusable sin, right? So clearly it's an excusable sin, right? So clearly it's a sin. So gossiping is a sin. I mean a sin. So gossiping is a sin. I mean a sin. So gossiping is a sin. I mean scripture is very very clear about that. scripture is very very clear about that. scripture is very very clear about that. But but why like why is it so damaging But but why like why is it so damaging But but why like why is it so damaging and why are we so quick to be like oh and why are we so quick to be like oh and why are we so quick to be like oh you know what I mean? Yeah. I can't I you know what I mean? Yeah. I can't I you know what I mean? Yeah. I can't I can't help it, you know. I mean we don't can't help it, you know. I mean we don't can't help it, you know. I mean we don't say that about murder. We don't say that say that about murder. We don't say that say that about murder. We don't say that about adultery. about adultery. about adultery. I just can't help it you know. I just can't help it you know. I just can't help it you know. >> Yeah. I think in the moment and we've >> Yeah. I think in the moment and we've >> Yeah. I think in the moment and we've talked about this um before. I think in talked about this um before. I think in talked about this um before. I think in the moment it creates a false s sense of the moment it creates a false s sense of the moment it creates a false s sense of intimacy between you and the person who intimacy between you and the person who intimacy between you and the person who are chatting it. It's such a lie. I mean are chatting it. It's such a lie. I mean are chatting it. It's such a lie. I mean it's such a lie. It's just like Satan in it's such a lie. It's just like Satan in it's such a lie. It's just like Satan in the garden saying if you eat then you the garden saying if you eat then you the garden saying if you eat then you will then you will know you will will then you will know you will will then you will know you will understand.

understand. understand. >> Um you'll be like God, >> Um you'll be like God, >> Um you'll be like God, >> you know, in some sense. And I think >> you know, in some sense. And I think >> you know, in some sense. And I think there's this false sense of we're there's this false sense of we're there's this false sense of we're better. weird. I mean, the heart is better. weird. I mean, the heart is better. weird. I mean, the heart is pride, right? Like to talk about someone pride, right? Like to talk about someone pride, right? Like to talk about someone else because you're you're normally else because you're you're normally else because you're you're normally using it to say why they're not so using it to say why they're not so using it to say why they're not so great, great, great, >> you know, and I can remember I mean I've >> you know, and I can remember I mean I've >> you know, and I can remember I mean I've been in circles, you know, you're been in circles, you know, you're been in circles, you know, you're standing around talking about someone standing around talking about someone standing around talking about someone and let's say someone's talking and let's say someone's talking and let's say someone's talking positively about someone. positively about someone. positively about someone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That talk or she led that Bible study so >> That talk or she led that Bible study so >> That talk or she led that Bible study so well and then I watched well and then I watched well and then I watched >> Yep. someone come in and just Well, I >> Yep. someone come in and just Well, I >> Yep. someone come in and just Well, I mean, you know, she doesn't she doesn't mean, you know, she doesn't she doesn't mean, you know, she doesn't she doesn't her husband's home every day at 4:00, her husband's home every day at 4:00, her husband's home every day at 4:00, right? right? right? >> So, she has >> So, she has >> So, she has >> Yeah, she has plenty of time. Yeah, it's >> Yeah, she has plenty of time. Yeah, it's >> Yeah, she has plenty of time. Yeah, it's >> So, so that might be true, >> So, so that might be true, >> So, so that might be true, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Her husband might be, but it's just I'm >> Her husband might be, but it's just I'm >> Her husband might be, but it's just I'm going to going to going to >> somehow take her character or and make >> somehow take her character or and make >> somehow take her character or and make her seem a little lesser.

her seem a little lesser. her seem a little lesser. >> Yeah. Have you ever heard that analogy >> Yeah. Have you ever heard that analogy >> Yeah. Have you ever heard that analogy about the crabs in a bucket? That about the crabs in a bucket? That about the crabs in a bucket? That >> probably, but I've forgotten. So, let's >> probably, but I've forgotten. So, let's >> probably, but I've forgotten. So, let's tell me again. tell me again. tell me again. Yeah, I told you this yesterday, but um Yeah, I told you this yesterday, but um Yeah, I told you this yesterday, but um No, I'm just kidding. Um where if you No, I'm just kidding. Um where if you No, I'm just kidding. Um where if you have a whole bunch of crabs in a bucket, have a whole bunch of crabs in a bucket, have a whole bunch of crabs in a bucket, I don't know if this is true or not, but I don't know if this is true or not, but I don't know if this is true or not, but if you have a whole bunch of crabs in a if you have a whole bunch of crabs in a if you have a whole bunch of crabs in a bucket and one of them starts to crawl bucket and one of them starts to crawl bucket and one of them starts to crawl out, the others will actually reach up out, the others will actually reach up out, the others will actually reach up and grab it and pull it back down. And and grab it and pull it back down. And and grab it and pull it back down. And it's such an image of how we can be, it's such an image of how we can be, it's such an image of how we can be, like you were saying, with our words, like you were saying, with our words, like you were saying, with our words, like why do we want to do that? Why do like why do we want to do that? Why do like why do we want to do that? Why do we want to take away a positive from we want to take away a positive from we want to take away a positive from somebody or promote the negative? Um somebody or promote the negative? Um somebody or promote the negative? Um either to them or to someone else, which either to them or to someone else, which either to them or to someone else, which is what we're talking about in this is what we're talking about in this is what we're talking about in this episode. And I think you're right. I episode. And I think you're right. I episode. And I think you're right. I think we just we love to be people that think we just we love to be people that think we just we love to be people that are in the no. Like have you ever I mean are in the no. Like have you ever I mean are in the no. Like have you ever I mean I've seen it in myself. Even if it's bad I've seen it in myself. Even if it's bad I've seen it in myself. Even if it's bad news, I like be the one to share it, news, I like be the one to share it, news, I like be the one to share it, right? Like what is that? I hate that. I right? Like what is that? I hate that. I right? Like what is that? I hate that. I don't don't don't >> I know. Why would I want to spread sad >> I know. Why would I want to spread sad >> I know. Why would I want to spread sad or bad news?

or bad news? or bad news? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I think what it does relate >> But I think what it does relate >> But I think what it does relate positionally, it says, "Oh, I know positionally, it says, "Oh, I know positionally, it says, "Oh, I know what's going on. what's going on. what's going on. >> It's power. Knowledge is power." >> It's power. Knowledge is power." >> It's power. Knowledge is power." >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's even relational >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's even relational >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's even relational power. So, let's say you're going power. So, let's say you're going power. So, let's say you're going through something and and people are through something and and people are through something and and people are rightly chitter chattering about it, you rightly chitter chattering about it, you rightly chitter chattering about it, you know, because they care about you. So, know, because they care about you. So, know, because they care about you. So, there's a rightness that we say, "Oh, there's a rightness that we say, "Oh, there's a rightness that we say, "Oh, did you hear about this? I'm so sorry did you hear about this? I'm so sorry did you hear about this? I'm so sorry that that's going on." And then I step that that's going on." And then I step that that's going on." And then I step in because I want to prove relationally in because I want to prove relationally in because I want to prove relationally I'm closer to you. I'm closer to you. I'm closer to you. >> That is so true. It It's like I know >> That is so true. It It's like I know >> That is so true. It It's like I know more about this because I know her more about this because I know her more about this because I know her better than you. It's like a power play better than you. It's like a power play better than you. It's like a power play relationally. Oh, this this does not relationally. Oh, this this does not relationally. Oh, this this does not make make make >> us as humans, as as you know, people >> us as humans, as as you know, people >> us as humans, as as you know, people look very good, does it? It also look very good, does it? It also look very good, does it? It also distances us when we're talking about distances us when we're talking about distances us when we're talking about somebody else. It distances us from somebody else. It distances us from somebody else. It distances us from them. you know what, like you were them. you know what, like you were them. you know what, like you were saying, you you're alluding to that like saying, you you're alluding to that like saying, you you're alluding to that like this idea that, you know, what they this idea that, you know, what they this idea that, you know, what they struggle with. Well, that I just want I struggle with. Well, that I just want I struggle with. Well, that I just want I want the person I'm in the conversation want the person I'm in the conversation want the person I'm in the conversation with to know that I'm not like that. I with to know that I'm not like that. I with to know that I'm not like that. I I'm better than that.

I'm better than that. I'm better than that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> There's just so much going on in our >> There's just so much going on in our >> There's just so much going on in our hearts, isn't there? At the moment that hearts, isn't there? At the moment that hearts, isn't there? At the moment that we're we're we're >> that we're engaging in gossip, our >> that we're engaging in gossip, our >> that we're engaging in gossip, our desire to gossip, our engagement with desire to gossip, our engagement with desire to gossip, our engagement with gossip is just so much. gossip is just so much. gossip is just so much. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, let me ask you this question. So, let me ask you this question. So, let me ask you this question. We've all been in scenarios, you know, We've all been in scenarios, you know, We've all been in scenarios, you know, where you're sitting around and a where you're sitting around and a where you're sitting around and a conversation is turning to gossip. conversation is turning to gossip. conversation is turning to gossip. >> Like slowly >> Like slowly >> Like slowly it's just getting there. It's kind of it's just getting there. It's kind of it's just getting there. It's kind of building. Well, I heard building. Well, I heard building. Well, I heard >> Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. Or whatever. I >> Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. Or whatever. I >> Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. Or whatever. I heard no. I heard their marriage was heard no. I heard their marriage was heard no. I heard their marriage was really struggling or some I don't know, really struggling or some I don't know, really struggling or some I don't know, whatever it might take. Do you have any whatever it might take. Do you have any whatever it might take. Do you have any like ways to how do you how do you how like ways to how do you how do you how like ways to how do you how do you how can we be helpful in a conversation to can we be helpful in a conversation to can we be helpful in a conversation to turn it from goss gossip? Well, I think turn it from goss gossip? Well, I think turn it from goss gossip? Well, I think first recognizing like what are some first recognizing like what are some first recognizing like what are some things that temp what are some things things that temp what are some things things that temp what are some things that are like phrases or what kind of that are like phrases or what kind of that are like phrases or what kind of happens prior so that you can be like happens prior so that you can be like happens prior so that you can be like okay I'm I'm going to look so that I'm okay I'm I'm going to look so that I'm okay I'm I'm going to look so that I'm ready to respond and so you know the ready to respond and so you know the ready to respond and so you know the latest is you know I'm going to spill latest is you know I'm going to spill latest is you know I'm going to spill the tea like oh give me the tea right the tea like oh give me the tea right the tea like oh give me the tea right >> oh my goodness >> oh my goodness >> oh my goodness >> and I say this to my daughter >> and I say this to my daughter >> and I say this to my daughter >> right I want to go to the high school >> right I want to go to the high school >> right I want to go to the high school tea I'm probably not helping her tea I'm probably not helping her tea I'm probably not helping her >> oh yeah all the time right I mean want >> oh yeah all the time right I mean want >> oh yeah all the time right I mean want to know or the one that gets me and I'm to know or the one that gets me and I'm to know or the one that gets me and I'm I've said it a million times and I it's I've said it a million times and I it's I've said it a million times and I it's the worst thing I think we can say is

the worst thing I think we can say is the worst thing I think we can say is don't tell anyone but because the don't tell anyone but because the don't tell anyone but because the reality is someone told me and probably reality is someone told me and probably reality is someone told me and probably started with that phrase don't tell started with that phrase don't tell started with that phrase don't tell anyone. Well, I just, you know, like I'm anyone. Well, I just, you know, like I'm anyone. Well, I just, you know, like I'm just going to run to Melissa and tell just going to run to Melissa and tell just going to run to Melissa and tell her because, you know, I want to tell her because, you know, I want to tell her because, you know, I want to tell you, but then I tell you, then I put the you, but then I tell you, then I put the you, but then I tell you, then I put the then I put the burden of confidentiality then I put the burden of confidentiality then I put the burden of confidentiality on you and it was a burden that I on you and it was a burden that I on you and it was a burden that I couldn't keep, right? I can't do it. I couldn't keep, right? I can't do it. I couldn't keep, right? I can't do it. I was not supposed to tell anyone but and was not supposed to tell anyone but and was not supposed to tell anyone but and then I can't do it. So then I put it on then I can't do it. So then I put it on then I can't do it. So then I put it on on someone else and I'm asking them to on someone else and I'm asking them to on someone else and I'm asking them to bear a weight that I couldn't bear. Um, bear a weight that I couldn't bear. Um, bear a weight that I couldn't bear. Um, obviously in Christian circles it's, you obviously in Christian circles it's, you obviously in Christian circles it's, you know, we need to pray for. I mean, we know, we need to pray for. I mean, we know, we need to pray for. I mean, we need to, you know, and we do need to need to, you know, and we do need to need to, you know, and we do need to pray for, but but do we need to go into pray for, but but do we need to go into pray for, but but do we need to go into the details and the specifics that are the details and the specifics that are the details and the specifics that are not ours to share? No, we don't. So, if not ours to share? No, we don't. So, if not ours to share? No, we don't. So, if you see someone heading in that you see someone heading in that you see someone heading in that direction, what are some ways to shut it direction, what are some ways to shut it direction, what are some ways to shut it down? Like, what how can we better press down? Like, what how can we better press down? Like, what how can we better press into not be so we don't want to gossip into not be so we don't want to gossip into not be so we don't want to gossip ourselves, but we also don't want to be ourselves, but we also don't want to be ourselves, but we also don't want to be a participant in listening to a a participant in listening to a a participant in listening to a bystander in that. So, how do you how do bystander in that. So, how do you how do bystander in that. So, how do you how do you shut it down?

you shut it down? you shut it down? >> Yeah, I think it's tough. I mean, you >> Yeah, I think it's tough. I mean, you >> Yeah, I think it's tough. I mean, you know, there's the direct route, but to know, there's the direct route, but to know, there's the direct route, but to say, "Hey, this conversation's really say, "Hey, this conversation's really say, "Hey, this conversation's really not going in a direction that I want it not going in a direction that I want it not going in a direction that I want it to go." I will admit, I don't usually to go." I will admit, I don't usually to go." I will admit, I don't usually pick that one. I I I appreciate when pick that one. I I I appreciate when pick that one. I I I appreciate when people do, though. I I actually really people do, though. I I actually really people do, though. I I actually really do. I don't mind it. I think it's a good do. I don't mind it. I think it's a good do. I don't mind it. I think it's a good check and it reminds everyone. I tend to check and it reminds everyone. I tend to check and it reminds everyone. I tend to go the let me think of something go the let me think of something go the let me think of something positive to say about this person or an positive to say about this person or an positive to say about this person or an understanding route to the about the understanding route to the about the understanding route to the about the person. So I might say well person. So I might say well person. So I might say well >> you know I I know her husband does >> you know I I know her husband does >> you know I I know her husband does whatever you know work get off it for whatever you know work get off it for whatever you know work get off it for but I know that she works really hard at but I know that she works really hard at but I know that she works really hard at this and I'm so yeah you like try to this and I'm so yeah you like try to this and I'm so yeah you like try to bring it back around to the positive bring it back around to the positive bring it back around to the positive >> um because it can just stop the trend >> um because it can just stop the trend >> um because it can just stop the trend whatever it might be. I don't know. Do whatever it might be. I don't know. Do whatever it might be. I don't know. Do you have any good Well, no surprise that you have any good Well, no surprise that you have any good Well, no surprise that I'm more confrontational than you. That I'm more confrontational than you. That I'm more confrontational than you. That isn't a surprise to anybody listening. I isn't a surprise to anybody listening. I isn't a surprise to anybody listening. I don't think if you know us at all, but don't think if you know us at all, but don't think if you know us at all, but um I have started I'm not I'm not as um I have started I'm not I'm not as um I have started I'm not I'm not as consistent as I would like to be in consistent as I would like to be in consistent as I would like to be in that. But but started to say things that. But but started to say things that. But but started to say things like, you know, I don't want this to like, you know, I don't want this to like, you know, I don't want this to slip into gossip. And so that kind of slip into gossip. And so that kind of slip into gossip. And so that kind of means, you know, and I'll say, I don't means, you know, and I'll say, I don't means, you know, and I'll say, I don't want this to slip into gossip, so I'll want this to slip into gossip, so I'll want this to slip into gossip, so I'll just ask her about it, you know, and try just ask her about it, you know, and try just ask her about it, you know, and try to just put it in that or if somebody to just put it in that or if somebody to just put it in that or if somebody says, you know, okay, don't tell anyone, says, you know, okay, don't tell anyone, says, you know, okay, don't tell anyone, but and I'll say, you know what, if but and I'll say, you know what, if but and I'll say, you know what, if you're not supposed to tell me, don't you're not supposed to tell me, don't you're not supposed to tell me, don't >> um just trying to trying to just say

>> um just trying to trying to just say >> um just trying to trying to just say this, I don't want to do this. I don't this, I don't want to do this. I don't this, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. But but we all do, and want to do this. But but we all do, and want to do this. But but we all do, and this is what we keep coming back to. So, this is what we keep coming back to. So, this is what we keep coming back to. So, if you come away from a conversation and if you come away from a conversation and if you come away from a conversation and you realize that either you've been you realize that either you've been you realize that either you've been gossiping or you've been listening to gossiping or you've been listening to gossiping or you've been listening to gossip, what do we do? What's the gossip, what do we do? What's the gossip, what do we do? What's the appropriate response appropriate response appropriate response um of repentance and of sanctification um of repentance and of sanctification um of repentance and of sanctification in a way that's not legalistic, that's in a way that's not legalistic, that's in a way that's not legalistic, that's not socially weird, that doesn't have to not socially weird, that doesn't have to not socially weird, that doesn't have to be, you know, and that isn't overly be, you know, and that isn't overly be, you know, and that isn't overly dramatic. Like I had somebody come to me dramatic. Like I had somebody come to me dramatic. Like I had somebody come to me one time and they took me to lunch and one time and they took me to lunch and one time and they took me to lunch and they confessed to me that they had been they confessed to me that they had been they confessed to me that they had been really bitter towards me. Well, you know really bitter towards me. Well, you know really bitter towards me. Well, you know what? I didn't actually need to know what? I didn't actually need to know what? I didn't actually need to know that. Like that is different than gossip that. Like that is different than gossip that. Like that is different than gossip because they could have just taken that because they could have just taken that because they could have just taken that to the Lord and just dealt with it, you to the Lord and just dealt with it, you to the Lord and just dealt with it, you know, but then now I have this 20-year know, but then now I have this 20-year know, but then now I have this 20-year knowledge that this person was really knowledge that this person was really knowledge that this person was really bitter. Um, so we don't have to be weird bitter. Um, so we don't have to be weird bitter. Um, so we don't have to be weird about it, right? So what is do more harm about it, right? So what is do more harm about it, right? So what is do more harm with our confession? Yes, cuz there are with our confession? Yes, cuz there are with our confession? Yes, cuz there are confessions that can harm.

confessions that can harm. confessions that can harm. >> There are confessions that can harm. I >> There are confessions that can harm. I >> There are confessions that can harm. I wasn't the person she needed to confess wasn't the person she needed to confess wasn't the person she needed to confess to, but gossip is a personal offense. to, but gossip is a personal offense. to, but gossip is a personal offense. And so, And so, And so, >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So, what do you recommend? >> So, what do you recommend? >> So, what do you recommend? >> Yeah, I think I think it's definitely >> Yeah, I think I think it's definitely >> Yeah, I think I think it's definitely before the Lord and normally he's going before the Lord and normally he's going before the Lord and normally he's going to put it on your heart. You know, if to put it on your heart. You know, if to put it on your heart. You know, if you say, "Lord, is there anything I need you say, "Lord, is there anything I need you say, "Lord, is there anything I need to be convicted of?" And it just keeps to be convicted of?" And it just keeps to be convicted of?" And it just keeps nagging at you. I think definitely the nagging at you. I think definitely the nagging at you. I think definitely the person you gossiped with, if you can go person you gossiped with, if you can go person you gossiped with, if you can go back to them and say, "Hey, when I said back to them and say, "Hey, when I said back to them and say, "Hey, when I said that about Sue, I really shouldn't have. that about Sue, I really shouldn't have. that about Sue, I really shouldn't have. It was inappropriate. My words weren't It was inappropriate. My words weren't It was inappropriate. My words weren't kind. Um, and I'm really sorry I did kind. Um, and I'm really sorry I did kind. Um, and I'm really sorry I did that. It wasn't helpful to do." that. It wasn't helpful to do." that. It wasn't helpful to do." >> And we've done that. I mean, you and I >> And we've done that. I mean, you and I >> And we've done that. I mean, you and I have have definitely done that when it's have have definitely done that when it's have have definitely done that when it's like we're just convicted like, okay, like we're just convicted like, okay, like we're just convicted like, okay, that that that >> that conversation just slid into a place >> that conversation just slid into a place >> that conversation just slid into a place that it shouldn't have. that it shouldn't have. that it shouldn't have. >> Exactly. Exactly. And so, and in most of >> Exactly. Exactly. And so, and in most of >> Exactly. Exactly. And so, and in most of those scenarios, those scenarios, those scenarios, I don't normally think it's even helpful I don't normally think it's even helpful I don't normally think it's even helpful to go to the person. to go to the person. to go to the person. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You you unless it's something that it >> You you unless it's something that it >> You you unless it's something that it was maybe public. was maybe public. was maybe public. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In a way that deserves a like that they >> In a way that deserves a like that they >> In a way that deserves a like that they know about it. But if they don't know know about it. But if they don't know know about it. But if they don't know about it, the reality is that could do about it, the reality is that could do about it, the reality is that could do more harm, right? more harm, right? more harm, right? >> You know, like, hey, I was talking about >> You know, like, hey, I was talking about >> You know, like, hey, I was talking about how ugly your dress was. how ugly your dress was. how ugly your dress was. >> I mean, I don't know, you know, that >> I mean, I don't know, you know, that >> I mean, I don't know, you know, that might just not be helpful might just not be helpful might just not be helpful in in the moment. So, it might depend in in the moment. So, it might depend in in the moment. So, it might depend upon what it is. If you shared upon what it is. If you shared upon what it is. If you shared information you shouldn't have shared. information you shouldn't have shared. information you shouldn't have shared. um like let's say it's really sensitive um like let's say it's really sensitive um like let's say it's really sensitive like okay you know your husband is like okay you know your husband is like okay you know your husband is dealing with a disease and I told I dealing with a disease and I told I dealing with a disease and I told I might then say hey I need to confess I might then say hey I need to confess I might then say hey I need to confess I told Courtney about that medical told Courtney about that medical told Courtney about that medical diagnosis and I'm really sorry I diagnosis and I'm really sorry I diagnosis and I'm really sorry I shouldn't have done it was wrong I want shouldn't have done it was wrong I want shouldn't have done it was wrong I want you to know how far it went and that's you to know how far it went and that's you to know how far it went and that's where it went and I'm really sorry that where it went and I'm really sorry that where it went and I'm really sorry that feels a little you know so probably is feels a little you know so probably is feels a little you know so probably is situational about when it's appropriate situational about when it's appropriate situational about when it's appropriate to confess to the person you were to confess to the person you were to confess to the person you were gossiping what do you think about that gossiping what do you think about that gossiping what do you think about that >> I totally agree with you I think the >> I totally agree with you I think the >> I totally agree with you I think the content of what you shared that was not content of what you shared that was not content of what you shared that was not yours to share. Um it it matters. You're yours to share. Um it it matters. You're yours to share. Um it it matters. You're right. If you said something like, you right. If you said something like, you right. If you said something like, you know, have you seen that new haircut?

know, have you seen that new haircut? know, have you seen that new haircut? Like that's kind of that's kind of Like that's kind of that's kind of Like that's kind of that's kind of ridiculous. ridiculous. ridiculous. >> Um that you probably don't need to go >> Um that you probably don't need to go >> Um that you probably don't need to go tell the person that you saidful, right? tell the person that you saidful, right? tell the person that you saidful, right? >> But you're right. If it's like you you >> But you're right. If it's like you you >> But you're right. If it's like you you had shared something with me in had shared something with me in had shared something with me in confidence that was not mine confidence that was not mine confidence that was not mine >> to share. And so maybe that's even it. >> to share. And so maybe that's even it. >> to share. And so maybe that's even it. one of them it wasn't something that had one of them it wasn't something that had one of them it wasn't something that had been you were just talking bad about the been you were just talking bad about the been you were just talking bad about the person versus sharing something that person versus sharing something that person versus sharing something that they had told you. So maybe there's a they had told you. So maybe there's a they had told you. So maybe there's a little bit of a difference there if little bit of a difference there if little bit of a difference there if you're actually passing information on you're actually passing information on you're actually passing information on from the person and then when you pass from the person and then when you pass from the person and then when you pass it on it's about the person. Does that it on it's about the person. Does that it on it's about the person. Does that make sense? Then maybe that is um so make sense? Then maybe that is um so make sense? Then maybe that is um so again it's not legalistic but it is again it's not legalistic but it is again it's not legalistic but it is nuanced and it is always worth taking to nuanced and it is always worth taking to nuanced and it is always worth taking to the Lord and asking him to show you what the Lord and asking him to show you what the Lord and asking him to show you what to do. Yeah. to do. Yeah. to do. Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> about it. And so to first confess to >> about it. And so to first confess to >> about it. And so to first confess to him. him. him. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Confess to the person to whom you were >> Confess to the person to whom you were >> Confess to the person to whom you were speaking and then pray about whether or speaking and then pray about whether or speaking and then pray about whether or not you need to confess to the person not you need to confess to the person not you need to confess to the person about whom um about whom you are about whom um about whom you are about whom um about whom you are speaking.

speaking. speaking. >> And and I think something about the >> And and I think something about the >> And and I think something about the level of damage could matter too. like level of damage could matter too. like level of damage could matter too. like if something you said is going to cause if something you said is going to cause if something you said is going to cause further damage, especially if the person further damage, especially if the person further damage, especially if the person doesn't know it was said, like you know, doesn't know it was said, like you know, doesn't know it was said, like you know, you just really have to be careful. And you just really have to be careful. And you just really have to be careful. And and I think this is so important for us and I think this is so important for us and I think this is so important for us to remember about all of sin. I think to remember about all of sin. I think to remember about all of sin. I think sometimes we think uh sin is just the sometimes we think uh sin is just the sometimes we think uh sin is just the fun stuff and the Bible's keeping us fun stuff and the Bible's keeping us fun stuff and the Bible's keeping us from it. from it. from it. >> No, sin is a pit. >> No, sin is a pit. >> No, sin is a pit. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Can I say from the bottom of hell? Yeah. >> Can I say from the bottom of hell? Yeah. >> Can I say from the bottom of hell? Yeah. like that is corrosive torso. Maybe that like that is corrosive torso. Maybe that like that is corrosive torso. Maybe that was too strong. Maybe I need to like say was too strong. Maybe I need to like say was too strong. Maybe I need to like say something different. But it's all bad, something different. But it's all bad, something different. But it's all bad, you know. So, and it's damaging. I've you know. So, and it's damaging. I've you know. So, and it's damaging. I've said it before like sin is all sin is said it before like sin is all sin is said it before like sin is all sin is equally damning in that it deserves the equally damning in that it deserves the equally damning in that it deserves the wrath of God, but not all sin is equally wrath of God, but not all sin is equally wrath of God, but not all sin is equally damaging damaging damaging >> to others. And so, our sin damages other >> to others. And so, our sin damages other >> to others. And so, our sin damages other people. Like we go through life as both people. Like we go through life as both people. Like we go through life as both sinners and people who have been sinned sinners and people who have been sinned sinners and people who have been sinned against. People who suffer and who have against. People who suffer and who have against. People who suffer and who have caused the suffering of others. And so caused the suffering of others. And so caused the suffering of others. And so our sin is we've been damaged by people our sin is we've been damaged by people our sin is we've been damaged by people sinning against us and we damage people sinning against us and we damage people sinning against us and we damage people by sinning against them. And gossip is a by sinning against them. And gossip is a by sinning against them. And gossip is a very common way and I think we tend to very common way and I think we tend to very common way and I think we tend to think oh it's just gossip but no it is think oh it's just gossip but no it is think oh it's just gossip but no it is it is damaging. So, can you talk about a it is damaging. So, can you talk about a it is damaging. So, can you talk about a time that you have felt the weight or

time that you have felt the weight or time that you have felt the weight or the repercussions or the damage of the repercussions or the damage of the repercussions or the damage of gossip? gossip? gossip? >> Yes. I mean, I think we've all maybe >> Yes. I mean, I think we've all maybe >> Yes. I mean, I think we've all maybe sensed it. Have you ever walked in a sensed it. Have you ever walked in a sensed it. Have you ever walked in a room, you're like, "Oh, they stopped room, you're like, "Oh, they stopped room, you're like, "Oh, they stopped talking." Yeah, talking." Yeah, talking." Yeah, >> that was awkward. And you're just like, >> that was awkward. And you're just like, >> that was awkward. And you're just like, "What what was that about?" And you I "What what was that about?" And you I "What what was that about?" And you I sometimes rely on my mom at that point sometimes rely on my mom at that point sometimes rely on my mom at that point when she was like, "People generally when she was like, "People generally when she was like, "People generally aren't really thinking about you as much aren't really thinking about you as much aren't really thinking about you as much as you're thinking about yourself." So, as you're thinking about yourself." So, as you're thinking about yourself." So, that's always a good rule. It may have that's always a good rule. It may have that's always a good rule. It may have been they were totally talking about been they were totally talking about been they were totally talking about something different, but we all had that something different, but we all had that something different, but we all had that feeling. But I definitely had some I've feeling. But I definitely had some I've feeling. But I definitely had some I've had some situations had some situations had some situations um in our life because of, you know, and um in our life because of, you know, and um in our life because of, you know, and you're in this situation too, when you're in this situation too, when you're in this situation too, when you're married to a pastor, sometimes you're married to a pastor, sometimes you're married to a pastor, sometimes your life gets talked about more. your life gets talked about more. your life gets talked about more. There's just a public nature. And I There's just a public nature. And I There's just a public nature. And I think we have to be careful about this. think we have to be careful about this. think we have to be careful about this. So, I want you Yeah. Even listeners, as So, I want you Yeah. Even listeners, as So, I want you Yeah. Even listeners, as you think about people in your life who you think about people in your life who you think about people in your life who are leaders around you, sometimes they are leaders around you, sometimes they are leaders around you, sometimes they do just get talked about more. do just get talked about more. do just get talked about more. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Whether it's the assistant pastor of >> Whether it's the assistant pastor of >> Whether it's the assistant pastor of your church, where his kids go to school your church, where his kids go to school your church, where his kids go to school >> or whatever, >> or whatever, >> or whatever, where they went out to dinner. Can you where they went out to dinner. Can you where they went out to dinner. Can you believe?

believe? believe? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. We must be paying them too much. >> Wow. We must be paying them too much. >> Wow. We must be paying them too much. Yeah. Exactly. What in the world? Like, Yeah. Exactly. What in the world? Like, Yeah. Exactly. What in the world? Like, oh my word. They can take that vacation. oh my word. They can take that vacation. oh my word. They can take that vacation. That's nice. I mean, you know, like just That's nice. I mean, you know, like just That's nice. I mean, you know, like just these ways, but they're really painful these ways, but they're really painful these ways, but they're really painful because in that moment, because in that moment, because in that moment, >> what would it be great for that pastor >> what would it be great for that pastor >> what would it be great for that pastor or someone to hear? I'm so glad you all or someone to hear? I'm so glad you all or someone to hear? I'm so glad you all get to take this vacation. I know get to take this vacation. I know get to take this vacation. I know >> I know your family needs it. >> I know your family needs it. >> I know your family needs it. >> Like rather than a biting like, h, ain't >> Like rather than a biting like, h, ain't >> Like rather than a biting like, h, ain't that nice they get to do that? So, that that nice they get to do that? So, that that nice they get to do that? So, that can be gossip, too. Like, you know, just can be gossip, too. Like, you know, just can be gossip, too. Like, you know, just the way we're positioning something. And the way we're positioning something. And the way we're positioning something. And so I have I have felt the sting of it so I have I have felt the sting of it so I have I have felt the sting of it when I realized, you know, I told when I realized, you know, I told when I realized, you know, I told something to person A and now I'm something to person A and now I'm something to person A and now I'm talking to person E. Yeah. talking to person E. Yeah. talking to person E. Yeah. >> And I'm like, there's I told one person >> And I'm like, there's I told one person >> And I'm like, there's I told one person this and now person E is repeating back this and now person E is repeating back this and now person E is repeating back to me this very thing that there's no to me this very thing that there's no to me this very thing that there's no way it wasn't heard. So I just knew it way it wasn't heard. So I just knew it way it wasn't heard. So I just knew it was talked about. And it was really was talked about. And it was really was talked about. And it was really painful because and and it immediately painful because and and it immediately painful because and and it immediately made me think, I can't trust this made me think, I can't trust this made me think, I can't trust this person.

person. person. And so then it's really tempting when And so then it's really tempting when And so then it's really tempting when you've been hurt in that way to become you've been hurt in that way to become you've been hurt in that way to become really isolationistic really isolationistic really isolationistic like I'm just yep I got a journal I'm like I'm just yep I got a journal I'm like I'm just yep I got a journal I'm going to talk to Jesus. going to talk to Jesus. going to talk to Jesus. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's not healthy either. So when >> And that's not healthy either. So when >> And that's not healthy either. So when we've been wronged by it the answer we've been wronged by it the answer we've been wronged by it the answer isn't to isolate and go into ourselves. isn't to isolate and go into ourselves. isn't to isolate and go into ourselves. It's you know to realize okay this was a It's you know to realize okay this was a It's you know to realize okay this was a wrong done. I need to forgive the wrong done. I need to forgive the wrong done. I need to forgive the person. maybe confront the person like, person. maybe confront the person like, person. maybe confront the person like, "Hey, you were the only person I told "Hey, you were the only person I told "Hey, you were the only person I told this and it it I I feel like it got this and it it I I feel like it got this and it it I I feel like it got discussed." And I've done that. I have discussed." And I've done that. I have discussed." And I've done that. I have done that and it's it's painful to do. done that and it's it's painful to do. done that and it's it's painful to do. Um, but it it's just so so even in that Um, but it it's just so so even in that Um, but it it's just so so even in that scenario, it wasn't some deep dark scenario, it wasn't some deep dark scenario, it wasn't some deep dark secret that was being shared. It was secret that was being shared. It was secret that was being shared. It was just the notion of I really asked you just the notion of I really asked you just the notion of I really asked you not to say anything about this not to say anything about this not to say anything about this >> and it's >> and it's >> and it's it just hurts, it just hurts, it just hurts, >> you know, and it does affect your like >> you know, and it does affect your like >> you know, and it does affect your like confidence and trust in that person. In confidence and trust in that person. In confidence and trust in that person. In the same way, I don't think we really the same way, I don't think we really the same way, I don't think we really talked about this, but in the same way talked about this, but in the same way talked about this, but in the same way that when somebody gossip to me, that when somebody gossip to me, that when somebody gossip to me, >> I think >> I think >> I think >> that is like if if they're kind of >> that is like if if they're kind of >> that is like if if they're kind of characterized by gossiping, I'm like, characterized by gossiping, I'm like, characterized by gossiping, I'm like, you kind of just know like this is not a you kind of just know like this is not a you kind of just know like this is not a person that can hold a confidence. And I person that can hold a confidence. And I person that can hold a confidence. And I think one of our hopes in this episode think one of our hopes in this episode think one of our hopes in this episode is to cast a vision for the beauty of is to cast a vision for the beauty of is to cast a vision for the beauty of being women that are that use our words being women that are that use our words being women that are that use our words as lifegivers, not just to others but as lifegivers, not just to others but as lifegivers, not just to others but about others and as women who are

about others and as women who are about others and as women who are increasingly women who can hold a proper increasingly women who can hold a proper increasingly women who can hold a proper confidence um for each other and you confidence um for each other and you confidence um for each other and you know navigating our own hearts in this know navigating our own hearts in this know navigating our own hearts in this that we don't that we don't want to be that we don't that we don't want to be that we don't that we don't want to be the one that pulls someone else down the one that pulls someone else down the one that pulls someone else down that we kind of start recognizing the that we kind of start recognizing the that we kind of start recognizing the things in our own heart that cause us to things in our own heart that cause us to things in our own heart that cause us to gossip. But that is that is really gossip. But that is that is really gossip. But that is that is really painful. You know, I I think I've painful. You know, I I think I've painful. You know, I I think I've probably been on that end, but also on probably been on that end, but also on probably been on that end, but also on the other end where I've been caught in the other end where I've been caught in the other end where I've been caught in a gossip where I've been the one who, a gossip where I've been the one who, a gossip where I've been the one who, you know, somebody comes and says, "You you know, somebody comes and says, "You you know, somebody comes and says, "You were the one I told and it's now at were the one I told and it's now at were the one I told and it's now at person E." And it's like, oh, you know, person E." And it's like, oh, you know, person E." And it's like, oh, you know, it's just because it does alter that it's just because it does alter that it's just because it does alter that relationship. it alters that friendship relationship. it alters that friendship relationship. it alters that friendship when when a trust has been lost. And um when when a trust has been lost. And um when when a trust has been lost. And um yeah, how do we how do we press into yeah, how do we how do we press into yeah, how do we how do we press into this? I think, you know, when we first this? I think, you know, when we first this? I think, you know, when we first talked about doing this episode, I was talked about doing this episode, I was talked about doing this episode, I was kind of like, oh, you know, we all like kind of like, oh, you know, we all like kind of like, oh, you know, we all like everybody knows it's wrong. And yet, I everybody knows it's wrong. And yet, I everybody knows it's wrong. And yet, I think what we don't do often enough is think what we don't do often enough is think what we don't do often enough is stop and think about the damage that it stop and think about the damage that it stop and think about the damage that it causes to everybody involved, including causes to everybody involved, including causes to everybody involved, including ourselves. Yep. and our own because ourselves. Yep. and our own because ourselves. Yep. and our own because we're not pursuing our own we're not pursuing our own we're not pursuing our own sanctification then if we're not paying sanctification then if we're not paying sanctification then if we're not paying attention to, you know, what's going on attention to, you know, what's going on attention to, you know, what's going on in our hearts. And can we can I pause on in our hearts. And can we can I pause on in our hearts. And can we can I pause on that really quickly cuz that really quickly cuz that really quickly cuz >> I think we maybe don't talk about the >> I think we maybe don't talk about the >> I think we maybe don't talk about the ugliness of sin enough.

ugliness of sin enough. ugliness of sin enough. >> Um, and what I mean by that is not to >> Um, and what I mean by that is not to >> Um, and what I mean by that is not to condemn the sinner. We're all that condemn the sinner. We're all that condemn the sinner. We're all that person. person. person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I think sin gets painted, and again, >> But I think sin gets painted, and again, >> But I think sin gets painted, and again, we were talking about this a little bit we were talking about this a little bit we were talking about this a little bit earlier, as the thing we're being kept earlier, as the thing we're being kept earlier, as the thing we're being kept from. That's what Satan did. He painted from. That's what Satan did. He painted from. That's what Satan did. He painted it as the one thing you can't have. That it as the one thing you can't have. That it as the one thing you can't have. That would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun would be so fun. Wouldn't it be so fun to just chitchat with Courtney about to just chitchat with Courtney about to just chitchat with Courtney about this, you know, like I can just, this, you know, like I can just, this, you know, like I can just, >> oh, it's going to keep us from fun. >> oh, it's going to keep us from fun. >> oh, it's going to keep us from fun. >> And I just think sometimes we need to >> And I just think sometimes we need to >> And I just think sometimes we need to take a really hard look at the ugliness take a really hard look at the ugliness take a really hard look at the ugliness and misery of sin. Not so that we feel and misery of sin. Not so that we feel and misery of sin. Not so that we feel condemned by it, condemned by it, condemned by it, >> so that we hate it and want to spit it >> so that we hate it and want to spit it >> so that we hate it and want to spit it out. out. out. >> Yeah. as the most unsavory thing, >> Yeah. as the most unsavory thing, >> Yeah. as the most unsavory thing, >> you know, and that we just pause on it >> you know, and that we just pause on it >> you know, and that we just pause on it and say, "This sin is yucky and ugly and and say, "This sin is yucky and ugly and and say, "This sin is yucky and ugly and we feel terrible. It's like eating that we feel terrible. It's like eating that we feel terrible. It's like eating that thing you knew you shouldn't eat and thing you knew you shouldn't eat and thing you knew you shouldn't eat and then you feel cruddy." then you feel cruddy." then you feel cruddy." >> Yeah. The next It's It's that it feels >> Yeah. The next It's It's that it feels >> Yeah. The next It's It's that it feels sweet to the tongue and it makes the sweet to the tongue and it makes the sweet to the tongue and it makes the stomach sour. And I think just sometimes stomach sour. And I think just sometimes stomach sour. And I think just sometimes we need to sit in its ugliness and how we need to sit in its ugliness and how we need to sit in its ugliness and how it can ruin a friendship. Well, ruin a it can ruin a friendship. Well, ruin a it can ruin a friendship. Well, ruin a friendship. even as you were talking and friendship. even as you were talking and friendship. even as you were talking and you were saying like, "Oh, I just really you were saying like, "Oh, I just really you were saying like, "Oh, I just really want to tell, you know, Melissa that one want to tell, you know, Melissa that one want to tell, you know, Melissa that one thing." And and we alluded to this thing." And and we alluded to this thing." And and we alluded to this earlier about the bond that occurs when earlier about the bond that occurs when earlier about the bond that occurs when you, you know, because you're saying you, you know, because you're saying you, you know, because you're saying like, "Hey, you and I, we can talk about like, "Hey, you and I, we can talk about like, "Hey, you and I, we can talk about this." And it it gives this this." And it it gives this this." And it it gives this >> it's a fake bond. And the strength of >> it's a fake bond. And the strength of >> it's a fake bond. And the strength of the friendship is only as strong as the the friendship is only as strong as the the friendship is only as strong as the thing that unites you.

thing that unites you. thing that unites you. >> And you and I have talked about this. >> And you and I have talked about this. >> And you and I have talked about this. That's good, right? And so if what That's good, right? And so if what That's good, right? And so if what unites us is sitting around gossiping unites us is sitting around gossiping unites us is sitting around gossiping about people about people about people >> or what unites you and another friend is >> or what unites you and another friend is >> or what unites you and another friend is your love of tennis great like that's your love of tennis great like that's your love of tennis great like that's there are different things that bond us there are different things that bond us there are different things that bond us with people but the strength of that with people but the strength of that with people but the strength of that thing is going to determine the strength thing is going to determine the strength thing is going to determine the strength of your friendship. So if it is of your friendship. So if it is of your friendship. So if it is partnership in the gospel, if it is um partnership in the gospel, if it is um partnership in the gospel, if it is um pursuing Christ, like that is a that is pursuing Christ, like that is a that is pursuing Christ, like that is a that is a friendship that is going to go the a friendship that is going to go the a friendship that is going to go the distance. That is a friendship that is distance. That is a friendship that is distance. That is a friendship that is worth pursuing. And so even paying worth pursuing. And so even paying worth pursuing. And so even paying attention to what is it that bonds me attention to what is it that bonds me attention to what is it that bonds me with this person? If I am characterized with this person? If I am characterized with this person? If I am characterized in my in this particular relationship, in my in this particular relationship, in my in this particular relationship, am I characterized by just sitting am I characterized by just sitting am I characterized by just sitting around gossiping about people? Like is around gossiping about people? Like is around gossiping about people? Like is that the thing that unites us? And we that the thing that unites us? And we that the thing that unites us? And we all know friendships that that is what all know friendships that that is what all know friendships that that is what unites you. Yes, unites you. Yes, unites you. Yes, >> there is just such a better way to have >> there is just such a better way to have >> there is just such a better way to have there's such a stronger, deeper, more uh there's such a stronger, deeper, more uh there's such a stronger, deeper, more uh true friendships uh true friendships to true friendships uh true friendships to true friendships uh true friendships to be had. Well, let me ask you this be had. Well, let me ask you this be had. Well, let me ask you this question about that cuz this is what I question about that cuz this is what I question about that cuz this is what I see happening now.

see happening now. see happening now. When someone shares something on social When someone shares something on social When someone shares something on social media, okay, they actually shared it. media, okay, they actually shared it. media, okay, they actually shared it. It's like they're gossiping about It's like they're gossiping about It's like they're gossiping about themselves. themselves. themselves. But then But then But then I've also heard, can you believe she I've also heard, can you believe she I've also heard, can you believe she shared that? Oh yeah, we gossip about shared that? Oh yeah, we gossip about shared that? Oh yeah, we gossip about their gossip. their gossip. their gossip. >> Yes. Like I mean that's a lot to put out >> Yes. Like I mean that's a lot to put out >> Yes. Like I mean that's a lot to put out there. there. there. >> I've said it. You know, like said it. >> I've said it. You know, like said it. >> I've said it. You know, like said it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, it's like >> You know, it's like >> You know, it's like >> Oh, I'm the one you're referring to. >> Oh, I'm the one you're referring to. >> Oh, I'm the one you're referring to. You're like, You're like, You're like, >> "No, I wasn't actually >> "No, I wasn't actually >> "No, I wasn't actually >> I was certainly not referring." >> I was certainly not referring." >> I was certainly not referring." >> But like I'm just like, "Oh, so how how >> But like I'm just like, "Oh, so how how >> But like I'm just like, "Oh, so how how do we interact with social media?" do we interact with social media?" do we interact with social media?" Because at that point in some ways it is Because at that point in some ways it is Because at that point in some ways it is weirdly public. Mhm. weirdly public. Mhm. weirdly public. Mhm. >> This person told everyone, >> This person told everyone, >> This person told everyone, >> right? And even maybe celebrity gossip. >> right? And even maybe celebrity gossip. >> right? And even maybe celebrity gossip. I mean, that's like a whole like just I mean, that's like a whole like just I mean, that's like a whole like just thing we're allowed to talk about. But I thing we're allowed to talk about. But I thing we're allowed to talk about. But I think the thing about gossip is it think the thing about gossip is it think the thing about gossip is it objectifies a person. Yeah. I'm going objectifies a person. Yeah. I'm going objectifies a person. Yeah. I'm going back to your definition and you said in back to your definition and you said in back to your definition and you said in a biblical context, goss gossip is a biblical context, goss gossip is a biblical context, goss gossip is broadly understood as idol harmful talk broadly understood as idol harmful talk broadly understood as idol harmful talk about others. And so we're taking their about others. And so we're taking their about others. And so we're taking their own self-report, but we're flipping it own self-report, but we're flipping it own self-report, but we're flipping it into a negative into we're putting our into a negative into we're putting our into a negative into we're putting our opinion on it. We're putting our, you opinion on it. We're putting our, you opinion on it. We're putting our, you know, we are sitting in judgment of them know, we are sitting in judgment of them know, we are sitting in judgment of them and in whatever it was they shared about and in whatever it was they shared about and in whatever it was they shared about themselves. And so then, you know, and themselves. And so then, you know, and themselves. And so then, you know, and James talks about this too, like don't James talks about this too, like don't James talks about this too, like don't make yourself as judge. And so, you make yourself as judge. And so, you make yourself as judge. And so, you know, I think that that's part of it is know, I think that that's part of it is know, I think that that's part of it is then we are then trying to both spread

then we are then trying to both spread then we are then trying to both spread that fact beyond what you know, I mean, that fact beyond what you know, I mean, that fact beyond what you know, I mean, maybe you don't follow that person, maybe you don't follow that person, maybe you don't follow that person, maybe you didn't know it. Um, but I maybe you didn't know it. Um, but I maybe you didn't know it. Um, but I think it's the whole like what is what think it's the whole like what is what think it's the whole like what is what is our desire in doing it? What is our is our desire in doing it? What is our is our desire in doing it? What is our motive? What are we trying to motive? What are we trying to motive? What are we trying to accomplish? And so somebody could share, accomplish? And so somebody could share, accomplish? And so somebody could share, I mean, you could call me and say, "I I mean, you could call me and say, "I I mean, you could call me and say, "I saw in social media that so and so is saw in social media that so and so is saw in social media that so and so is um, you know, got a promotion or has a um, you know, got a promotion or has a um, you know, got a promotion or has a new book contract or is having a baby or new book contract or is having a baby or new book contract or is having a baby or whatever it is." Yes. whatever it is." Yes. whatever it is." Yes. >> That's not gossip. That's like you're >> That's not gossip. That's like you're >> That's not gossip. That's like you're you're sharing the the beauty of you're sharing the the beauty of you're sharing the the beauty of something with me. But if you were to something with me. But if you were to something with me. But if you were to call and say, you know, I just read on call and say, you know, I just read on call and say, you know, I just read on social media that she is um getting a social media that she is um getting a social media that she is um getting a divorce and you know what, I'm not divorce and you know what, I'm not divorce and you know what, I'm not surprised because do you know? So I surprised because do you know? So I surprised because do you know? So I think we just again have to pay think we just again have to pay think we just again have to pay attention to both the content of the attention to both the content of the attention to both the content of the conversation but also our heart in it. conversation but also our heart in it. conversation but also our heart in it. So yeah I think and we can hide behind So yeah I think and we can hide behind So yeah I think and we can hide behind well she posted it. It's public you know well she posted it. It's public you know well she posted it. It's public you know how is that gossip how is that gossip how is that gossip >> if she's posted it? Well it can totally >> if she's posted it? Well it can totally >> if she's posted it? Well it can totally be gossip. Um when we go back to your be gossip. Um when we go back to your be gossip. Um when we go back to your definition that word idol just really definition that word idol just really definition that word idol just really gets me.

gets me. gets me. >> It's just like why are we filling our >> It's just like why are we filling our >> It's just like why are we filling our minds with this stuff minds with this stuff minds with this stuff >> right? Why are we filling our days with >> right? Why are we filling our days with >> right? Why are we filling our days with this? this? this? >> Yeah. I mean, and then the scriptures do >> Yeah. I mean, and then the scriptures do >> Yeah. I mean, and then the scriptures do tell us what is Yeah. Whatever is tell us what is Yeah. Whatever is tell us what is Yeah. Whatever is lovely, whatever is praiseworthy, if lovely, whatever is praiseworthy, if lovely, whatever is praiseworthy, if anything is excellent anything is excellent anything is excellent >> or trustworthy. Think about these >> or trustworthy. Think about these >> or trustworthy. Think about these things. things. things. >> Yeah. And about these things. It's how >> Yeah. And about these things. It's how >> Yeah. And about these things. It's how you become a gospel- centered friend is you become a gospel- centered friend is you become a gospel- centered friend is you say things in the context of a you say things in the context of a you say things in the context of a conversation that point people to the conversation that point people to the conversation that point people to the gospel, that, you know, encourage gospel, that, you know, encourage gospel, that, you know, encourage sanctification, that encourage sanctification, that encourage sanctification, that encourage edification. You know, just even back to edification. You know, just even back to edification. You know, just even back to that Ephesians verse, only say only the that Ephesians verse, only say only the that Ephesians verse, only say only the talk that comes out of your mouth, only talk that comes out of your mouth, only talk that comes out of your mouth, only have that be what is helpful for have that be what is helpful for have that be what is helpful for building others up according to their building others up according to their building others up according to their needs that it may benefit those who needs that it may benefit those who needs that it may benefit those who listen, all those who listen. So there, listen, all those who listen. So there, listen, all those who listen. So there, and that includes you as the speaker. and that includes you as the speaker. and that includes you as the speaker. Like, is this wholesome? Is this Like, is this wholesome? Is this Like, is this wholesome? Is this edifying? Is this encouraging? Is this edifying? Is this encouraging? Is this edifying? Is this encouraging? Is this beneficial? I mean, it just kind of beneficial? I mean, it just kind of beneficial? I mean, it just kind of dovetales with um with the verse in dovetales with um with the verse in dovetales with um with the verse in second Timothy. Where is where is if second Timothy. Where is where is if second Timothy. Where is where is if anything is excellent or praiseworthy?

anything is excellent or praiseworthy? anything is excellent or praiseworthy? >> No idea where it is. >> No idea where it is. >> No idea where it is. >> Well, Timothy, >> Well, Timothy, >> Well, Timothy, >> it's in there. >> it's in there. >> it's in there. >> We'll drop that in there. >> We'll drop that in there. >> We'll drop that in there. >> We'll find it. >> We'll find it. >> We'll find it. >> Sometimes our brains are tired. I mean, >> Sometimes our brains are tired. I mean, >> Sometimes our brains are tired. I mean, I can't remember stories you've told me. I can't remember stories you've told me. I can't remember stories you've told me. Are you kidding? You're really bad to Are you kidding? You're really bad to Are you kidding? You're really bad to remember. No, you are the Bible memory remember. No, you are the Bible memory remember. No, you are the Bible memory verse queen. you those out so well. verse queen. you those out so well. verse queen. you those out so well. >> Terrible. >> Terrible. >> Terrible. >> Well, um, okay. Well, let's end on a >> Well, um, okay. Well, let's end on a >> Well, um, okay. Well, let's end on a positive note with a question. Who in positive note with a question. Who in positive note with a question. Who in your life has been a good example of your life has been a good example of your life has been a good example of someone who won't engage in gossip? someone who won't engage in gossip? someone who won't engage in gossip? >> This is a great question. And you know, >> This is a great question. And you know, >> This is a great question. And you know, I realized I love these conversations I realized I love these conversations I realized I love these conversations because I'm actually learning myself because I'm actually learning myself because I'm actually learning myself while we're having them. We always want while we're having them. We always want while we're having them. We always want to probably explain that I'm working to probably explain that I'm working to probably explain that I'm working some things out. And what I realized as some things out. And what I realized as some things out. And what I realized as we're talking about this, it's the women we're talking about this, it's the women we're talking about this, it's the women in my life who I know are in the word in my life who I know are in the word in my life who I know are in the word regularly. Cuz here's the thing, you regularly. Cuz here's the thing, you regularly. Cuz here's the thing, you can't put off sin until you're putting can't put off sin until you're putting can't put off sin until you're putting on something else. There's all all on something else. There's all all on something else. There's all all through scripture. Put off, put on, put through scripture. Put off, put on, put through scripture. Put off, put on, put off, put on. off, put on. off, put on. >> And so, we're never going to overflow >> And so, we're never going to overflow >> And so, we're never going to overflow with that those good things if we're not with that those good things if we're not with that those good things if we're not Yeah. putting off the gossip, but Yeah. putting off the gossip, but Yeah. putting off the gossip, but putting on God's word. And and so when I putting on God's word. And and so when I putting on God's word. And and so when I think about women in my life who I'm think about women in my life who I'm think about women in my life who I'm like, "Ooh, we just always have rich like, "Ooh, we just always have rich like, "Ooh, we just always have rich conversations." And I and I want to conversations." And I and I want to conversations." And I and I want to honestly say, honestly say, honestly say, >> it's a lot of the women we work here >> it's a lot of the women we work here >> it's a lot of the women we work here with at TGC.

with at TGC. with at TGC. >> I mean, like our conversations, and I >> I mean, like our conversations, and I >> I mean, like our conversations, and I mean this, they are filled with, yeah, mean this, they are filled with, yeah, mean this, they are filled with, yeah, maybe what's going on with people's maybe what's going on with people's maybe what's going on with people's lives, but prayerfully, meaning their lives, but prayerfully, meaning their lives, but prayerfully, meaning their own life, like they're going to share, own life, like they're going to share, own life, like they're going to share, oh, this hard thing happened, but often oh, this hard thing happened, but often oh, this hard thing happened, but often it's I saw this in scripture this it's I saw this in scripture this it's I saw this in scripture this morning, and this is amazing. you know, morning, and this is amazing. you know, morning, and this is amazing. you know, this is what I'm thinking through or I this is what I'm thinking through or I this is what I'm thinking through or I this hit me. this hit me. this hit me. I'm so thankful to work with women who I'm so thankful to work with women who I'm so thankful to work with women who are putting on are putting on are putting on >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> scripture and put and memorizing it. We >> scripture and put and memorizing it. We >> scripture and put and memorizing it. We have some friends who memorize whole have some friends who memorize whole have some friends who memorize whole passages and all these long long things passages and all these long long things passages and all these long long things and it I can tell and it I can tell and it I can tell >> I know >> I know >> I know >> it comes out because they're thinking >> it comes out because they're thinking >> it comes out because they're thinking about different things and they're about different things and they're about different things and they're talking about different things. talking about different things. talking about different things. >> So that mindless scrolling we're doing >> So that mindless scrolling we're doing >> So that mindless scrolling we're doing or whatever, it's not mindless. No, or whatever, it's not mindless. No, or whatever, it's not mindless. No, >> it's actually an input. >> it's actually an input. >> it's actually an input. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's going to be your output. >> And that's going to be your output. >> And that's going to be your output. >> So good. >> So good. >> So good. >> And so that for that those are the women >> And so that for that those are the women >> And so that for that those are the women for me. I don't know if you have anyone for me. I don't know if you have anyone for me. I don't know if you have anyone specific. You might have a specific. You might have a specific. You might have a >> Well, I was just thinking about it >> Well, I was just thinking about it >> Well, I was just thinking about it because this weekend, this past weekend, because this weekend, this past weekend, because this weekend, this past weekend, we were celebrating my mom's 80th we were celebrating my mom's 80th we were celebrating my mom's 80th birthday and we were all saying birthday and we were all saying birthday and we were all saying different things about her. I wrote her different things about her. I wrote her different things about her. I wrote her a letter and we were giving some toast a letter and we were giving some toast a letter and we were giving some toast and my aunt, her little sister, stood up and my aunt, her little sister, stood up and my aunt, her little sister, stood up and she said, "No matter," she said, "No and she said, "No matter," she said, "No and she said, "No matter," she said, "No matter how hard I've tried through the matter how hard I've tried through the matter how hard I've tried through the years," kind of tongue and cheek. She's years," kind of tongue and cheek. She's years," kind of tongue and cheek. She's like, "And I've tried, I cannot make her like, "And I've tried, I cannot make her like, "And I've tried, I cannot make her speak badly about others."

speak badly about others." speak badly about others." And I thought, "Wow." I mean, what a And I thought, "Wow." I mean, what a And I thought, "Wow." I mean, what a thing to say about someone else in their thing to say about someone else in their thing to say about someone else in their 80th year that I have tr known her for 80th year that I have tr known her for 80th year that I have tr known her for 77 years. No. And behind you can tell 77 years. No. And behind you can tell 77 years. No. And behind you can tell your stuff to it's your sister. your stuff to it's your sister. your stuff to it's your sister. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. Like that feels like and my aunt >> Right. Like that feels like and my aunt >> Right. Like that feels like and my aunt and if you're listening you know this is and if you're listening you know this is and if you're listening you know this is true. Uh she wouldn't hold back. Like true. Uh she wouldn't hold back. Like true. Uh she wouldn't hold back. Like she would not say that if that was not she would not say that if that was not she would not say that if that was not true. true. true. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I'm sure she has tried. >> And I'm sure she has tried. >> And I'm sure she has tried. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because we all do. But I mean I thought >> Because we all do. But I mean I thought >> Because we all do. But I mean I thought what a thing to say about someone else. what a thing to say about someone else. what a thing to say about someone else. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Right. Wow. >> Right. Wow. >> Right. Wow. >> May that be said of all of no matter how >> May that be said of all of no matter how >> May that be said of all of no matter how hard someone tried to make us say hard someone tried to make us say hard someone tried to make us say >> wow >> wow >> wow >> something bad about somebody. >> something bad about somebody. >> something bad about somebody. >> That's beautiful. Right. I thought so >> That's beautiful. Right. I thought so >> That's beautiful. Right. I thought so too. too. too. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Well, I am grateful for this >> Well, I am grateful for this >> Well, I am grateful for this conversation. Even though talking about conversation. Even though talking about conversation. Even though talking about gossip is always convicting. So, let me gossip is always convicting. So, let me gossip is always convicting. So, let me end by asking, what is your favorite end by asking, what is your favorite end by asking, what is your favorite thing other than Jesus? We all know. So, thing other than Jesus? We all know. So, thing other than Jesus? We all know. So, you can't say Jesus, you can't say the you can't say Jesus, you can't say the you can't say Jesus, you can't say the Bible, you can't say your faith. What is Bible, you can't say your faith. What is Bible, you can't say your faith. What is your favorite thing for you to talk your favorite thing for you to talk your favorite thing for you to talk about? I mean, you know, well, food.

about? I mean, you know, well, food. about? I mean, you know, well, food. I want to talk about pizza. I want to I want to talk about pizza. I want to I want to talk about pizza. I want to talk about the cobbler. I want to talk talk about the cobbler. I want to talk talk about the cobbler. I want to talk about the food I'm growing. I want to about the food I'm growing. I want to about the food I'm growing. I want to talk about the food I'm eating. I want talk about the food I'm eating. I want talk about the food I'm eating. I want to talk about the food I'm cooking. I to talk about the food I'm cooking. I to talk about the food I'm cooking. I want to talk about the food I want to want to talk about the food I want to want to talk about the food I want to have you ever to cook for you about. I have you ever to cook for you about. I have you ever to cook for you about. I mean, it's food. I love food. mean, it's food. I love food. mean, it's food. I love food. >> She is speaking the truth. I uh have >> She is speaking the truth. I uh have >> She is speaking the truth. I uh have been working on this menu for a been working on this menu for a been working on this menu for a gathering. And I was like, "Hey, do you gathering. And I was like, "Hey, do you gathering. And I was like, "Hey, do you want to just talk through the food with want to just talk through the food with want to just talk through the food with me because I knew she would like it." me because I knew she would like it." me because I knew she would like it." Okay, before we end, I want to tell you Okay, before we end, I want to tell you Okay, before we end, I want to tell you all Melissa's uh golden birthday verse. all Melissa's uh golden birthday verse. all Melissa's uh golden birthday verse. It's of course it's exactly what it is. It's of course it's exactly what it is. It's of course it's exactly what it is. So, it's in Proverbs 3 and he's and the So, it's in Proverbs 3 and he's and the So, it's in Proverbs 3 and he's and the writer is saying, "Maintain sound wisdom writer is saying, "Maintain sound wisdom writer is saying, "Maintain sound wisdom and discretion, my son. Don't lose sight and discretion, my son. Don't lose sight and discretion, my son. Don't lose sight of them. They will be life for you and of them. They will be life for you and of them. They will be life for you and adorement for your neck." And then here adorement for your neck." And then here adorement for your neck." And then here is Melissa's verse. Then you will go is Melissa's verse. Then you will go is Melissa's verse. Then you will go safely on your way. Your foot will not safely on your way. Your foot will not safely on your way. Your foot will not stumble. So, as somebody who maintains stumble. So, as somebody who maintains stumble. So, as somebody who maintains sound wisdom and discretion, that is sound wisdom and discretion, that is sound wisdom and discretion, that is beautiful. Beautiful. beautiful. Beautiful. beautiful. Beautiful. >> Tell us in the comments uh what your >> Tell us in the comments uh what your >> Tell us in the comments uh what your birthday problems are if you have them. birthday problems are if you have them. birthday problems are if you have them. here to see here to see here to see >> and let me know if yours is about >> and let me know if yours is about >> and let me know if yours is about gossip. I just need some friends out gossip. I just need some friends out gossip. I just need some friends out there. We hope you have enjoyed this there. We hope you have enjoyed this there. We hope you have enjoyed this episode of the deep dish from the Gospel episode of the deep dish from the Gospel episode of the deep dish from the Gospel Coalition. If you found this Coalition. If you found this Coalition. If you found this conversation helpful, please like and conversation helpful, please like and conversation helpful, please like and subscribe wherever you listen to subscribe wherever you listen to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and consider sharing it with a podcasts and consider sharing it with a podcasts and consider sharing it with a friend as you pursue gospel friend as you pursue gospel friend as you pursue gospel conversations.