Mental Health in the Church [TGC Podcast Ep. 386]

My name is Jeremy Pierre and uh I teach My name is Jeremy Pierre and uh I teach at the Southern Baptist Theological at the Southern Baptist Theological at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in biblical counseling and Seminary in biblical counseling and Seminary in biblical counseling and practical theology. I'm also dean of the practical theology. I'm also dean of the practical theology. I'm also dean of the Graham School of Missions, Evangelism, Graham School of Missions, Evangelism, Graham School of Missions, Evangelism, and Ministry there. And I am it's a joy and Ministry there. And I am it's a joy and Ministry there. And I am it's a joy to be here with you all here at TGC and to be here with you all here at TGC and to be here with you all here at TGC and I'm very thankful they gave me a very I'm very thankful they gave me a very I'm very thankful they gave me a very uncontroversial uncontroversial uncontroversial topic like mental health. topic like mental health. topic like mental health. Okay. So I hope actually to serve you Okay. So I hope actually to serve you Okay. So I hope actually to serve you all well in a very specific way in this all well in a very specific way in this all well in a very specific way in this talk. Okay. And it's entitled as you talk. Okay. And it's entitled as you talk. Okay. And it's entitled as you know speaking wisely about mental health know speaking wisely about mental health know speaking wisely about mental health in the in the in the church because mental health lingo is church because mental health lingo is church because mental health lingo is everywhere. Trauma triggering toxic everywhere. Trauma triggering toxic everywhere. Trauma triggering toxic relationships emotional manipulation relationships emotional manipulation relationships emotional manipulation emotional blackmail gaslighting emotional blackmail gaslighting emotional blackmail gaslighting narcissism intrusive thoughts boundaries narcissism intrusive thoughts boundaries narcissism intrusive thoughts boundaries coping skills. connection, coping skills. connection, coping skills. connection, self-care. Everyone's using mental self-care. Everyone's using mental self-care. Everyone's using mental health health health lingo. So, I got good news for you. I'm lingo. So, I got good news for you. I'm lingo. So, I got good news for you. I'm going to cut through all of the going to cut through all of the going to cut through all of the complexity and I'm going to solve all of complexity and I'm going to solve all of complexity and I'm going to solve all of the problems of human existence in the the problems of human existence in the the problems of human existence in the next 45 minutes. And I'm going to next 45 minutes. And I'm going to next 45 minutes. And I'm going to provide for you, thank you, a very provide for you, thank you, a very provide for you, thank you, a very simple list of words that you can use simple list of words that you can use simple list of words that you can use and words that you cannot use and words that you cannot use and words that you cannot use faithfully.

faithfully. faithfully. If anybody tries to do that to you, you If anybody tries to do that to you, you If anybody tries to do that to you, you can get up and walk out of the room. can get up and walk out of the room. can get up and walk out of the room. Okay? If only it were that easy. It's Okay? If only it were that easy. It's Okay? If only it were that easy. It's not that easy because that's not how not that easy because that's not how not that easy because that's not how language works. That's not the language works. That's not the language works. That's not the complexity of what we experience in this complexity of what we experience in this complexity of what we experience in this world. So again, this talk is about world. So again, this talk is about world. So again, this talk is about speaking wisely. That's actually the speaking wisely. That's actually the speaking wisely. That's actually the emphasis, speaking wisely about mental emphasis, speaking wisely about mental emphasis, speaking wisely about mental health in the church. So, I'm going to health in the church. So, I'm going to health in the church. So, I'm going to be asking and answering hopefully the be asking and answering hopefully the be asking and answering hopefully the larger question behind that. A larger larger question behind that. A larger larger question behind that. A larger question than even the specific question than even the specific question than even the specific terminology that a person might choose terminology that a person might choose terminology that a person might choose to use versus to use versus to use versus another. Here's the larger question. How another. Here's the larger question. How another. Here's the larger question. How do the people of God properly speak to do the people of God properly speak to do the people of God properly speak to one another about the problems they're one another about the problems they're one another about the problems they're facing in facing in facing in life? Especially the complex ones. life? Especially the complex ones. life? Especially the complex ones. So, I'm just going to tell you my angle. So, I'm just going to tell you my angle. So, I'm just going to tell you my angle. This is this is my angle that I'm This is this is my angle that I'm This is this is my angle that I'm approaching this with. I'm a pastor and approaching this with. I'm a pastor and approaching this with. I'm a pastor and I train pastors and ministers and I train pastors and ministers and I train pastors and ministers and missionaries to care for people in a missionaries to care for people in a missionaries to care for people in a church setting to care for people in the church setting to care for people in the church setting to care for people in the culture in which we live. So my main culture in which we live. So my main culture in which we live. So my main concern is actually not going to be the concern is actually not going to be the concern is actually not going to be the disciplinary debates or precise disciplinary debates or precise disciplinary debates or precise definitions of mental health, but rather definitions of mental health, but rather definitions of mental health, but rather how to shepherd people effectively, how how to shepherd people effectively, how how to shepherd people effectively, how to care for people to care for people to care for people effectively in a psychized culture. And

effectively in a psychized culture. And effectively in a psychized culture. And by that I just mean a culture where by that I just mean a culture where by that I just mean a culture where people have been people have been people have been um catechized with much of the language um catechized with much of the language um catechized with much of the language of mental health. of mental health. of mental health. Okay. So in a sense folks this talk is Okay. So in a sense folks this talk is Okay. So in a sense folks this talk is more about the purpose of language than more about the purpose of language than more about the purpose of language than it's going to be about the specific it's going to be about the specific it's going to be about the specific terms that you can put a check mark next terms that you can put a check mark next terms that you can put a check mark next to or an X next to. My purpose is again to or an X next to. My purpose is again to or an X next to. My purpose is again to step above all this and ask the to step above all this and ask the to step above all this and ask the question, what are we doing with question, what are we doing with question, what are we doing with language? What is the purpose of language? What is the purpose of language? What is the purpose of language when we're choosing this word language when we're choosing this word language when we're choosing this word rather than this word rather than this rather than this word rather than this rather than this word rather than this word to describe something that I feel word to describe something that I feel word to describe something that I feel and experience inside or uh in response and experience inside or uh in response and experience inside or uh in response to my external context. So I'm not saying the technical context. So I'm not saying the technical diff definitions are are unimportant or diff definitions are are unimportant or diff definitions are are unimportant or conceptual schemes are unimportant. But conceptual schemes are unimportant. But conceptual schemes are unimportant. But what I have found in ministering to what I have found in ministering to what I have found in ministering to human beings and not human beings and not human beings and not textbooks is that most people in textbooks is that most people in textbooks is that most people in counseling or church care counseling or church care counseling or church care situations, they're just grabbing any situations, they're just grabbing any situations, they're just grabbing any lingo they can grab to try to explain lingo they can grab to try to explain lingo they can grab to try to explain the pain that they're feeling in the in the pain that they're feeling in the in the pain that they're feeling in the in the in the life in their life.

So, you might be thinking since I'm So, you might be thinking since I'm using the word lingo that I'm going to using the word lingo that I'm going to using the word lingo that I'm going to automatically dismiss this all, okay? automatically dismiss this all, okay? automatically dismiss this all, okay? But I'm using the word lingo in a very But I'm using the word lingo in a very But I'm using the word lingo in a very intentional way. Lingo is just typical intentional way. Lingo is just typical intentional way. Lingo is just typical language of a particular field or group language of a particular field or group language of a particular field or group or culture that they use to describe or culture that they use to describe or culture that they use to describe what what they believe to be what what they believe to be what what they believe to be important. So, you all know this guys. important. So, you all know this guys. important. So, you all know this guys. Did if you don't when you talk to your Did if you don't when you talk to your Did if you don't when you talk to your unbelieving neighbor, you quickly unbelieving neighbor, you quickly unbelieving neighbor, you quickly realize there's church lingo. Did you realize there's church lingo. Did you realize there's church lingo. Did you know this? And when you talk to a know this? And when you talk to a know this? And when you talk to a Presbyterian, you realize there's Presbyterian, you realize there's Presbyterian, you realize there's Presbyterian lingo and Baptist lingo. Presbyterian lingo and Baptist lingo. Presbyterian lingo and Baptist lingo. There's gamer lingo. If you talk to your There's gamer lingo. If you talk to your There's gamer lingo. If you talk to your teenage boys, there's Tik Tok lingo, gym teenage boys, there's Tik Tok lingo, gym teenage boys, there's Tik Tok lingo, gym bro lingo. You have to learn when you go bro lingo. You have to learn when you go bro lingo. You have to learn when you go into the gym, don't act, don't say into the gym, don't act, don't say into the gym, don't act, don't say certain things or you look like an certain things or you look like an certain things or you look like an idiot, which I've found out many a time. idiot, which I've found out many a time. idiot, which I've found out many a time. Okay. But my point to you is that all Okay. But my point to you is that all Okay. But my point to you is that all these different groups, all these these different groups, all these these different groups, all these different sort of different sort of different sort of subcultures have words that they use to subcultures have words that they use to subcultures have words that they use to describe what's important to describe what's important to describe what's important to them. And so people use words to convey them. And so people use words to convey them. And so people use words to convey when we're talking about mental health when we're talking about mental health when we're talking about mental health lingo, they're using their words to lingo, they're using their words to lingo, they're using their words to convey the convey the convey the meaning meaning meaning behind their troubles, behind their behind their troubles, behind their behind their troubles, behind their pain.

So the question that I think that we as So the question that I think that we as Christians always have to be asking Christians always have to be asking Christians always have to be asking ourselves about what language we use to ourselves about what language we use to ourselves about what language we use to describe and apply attribute meaning to describe and apply attribute meaning to describe and apply attribute meaning to our troubles is is the language we our troubles is is the language we our troubles is is the language we use adequately conveying the priority of use adequately conveying the priority of use adequately conveying the priority of meaning that God places on our troubles. meaning that God places on our troubles. meaning that God places on our troubles. That's just the question we should That's just the question we should That's just the question we should always be asking. And I think that always be asking. And I think that always be asking. And I think that question actually guards us against two question actually guards us against two question actually guards us against two extremes that we can make errors about extremes that we can make errors about extremes that we can make errors about when we're talking about mental health when we're talking about mental health when we're talking about mental health lingo. Okay. On the one hand, I think lingo. Okay. On the one hand, I think lingo. Okay. On the one hand, I think asking that broader question and asking that broader question and asking that broader question and approaching it this way is going to approaching it this way is going to approaching it this way is going to guard us from dismissing the concerns guard us from dismissing the concerns guard us from dismissing the concerns that people have when they're attempting that people have when they're attempting that people have when they're attempting to convey with these words the pain and to convey with these words the pain and to convey with these words the pain and the suffering that they're going the suffering that they're going the suffering that they're going through. Okay? So, it's going to help us through. Okay? So, it's going to help us through. Okay? So, it's going to help us avoid a mentality that basically says avoid a mentality that basically says avoid a mentality that basically says something like mental health lingo is something like mental health lingo is something like mental health lingo is always wrong to use. You should only use always wrong to use. You should only use always wrong to use. You should only use language from the Bible to describe your language from the Bible to describe your language from the Bible to describe your problem. I actually don't think that's a problem. I actually don't think that's a problem. I actually don't think that's a reformed understanding of how language reformed understanding of how language reformed understanding of how language actually works.

actually works. actually works. Okay. But on the other hand, I want to Okay. But on the other hand, I want to Okay. But on the other hand, I want to guard I I think that larger question guard I I think that larger question guard I I think that larger question approach guards us against another approach guards us against another approach guards us against another extreme that we will not affirm ideas extreme that we will not affirm ideas extreme that we will not affirm ideas that either contradict what God has said that either contradict what God has said that either contradict what God has said about human design in scripture or about human design in scripture or about human design in scripture or here's a greater danger or here's a greater danger or here's a greater danger or misprioritize aspects of human misprioritize aspects of human misprioritize aspects of human experience that end up desentering what experience that end up desentering what experience that end up desentering what God is most concerned about in the God is most concerned about in the God is most concerned about in the situation. So what we're avoiding here situation. So what we're avoiding here situation. So what we're avoiding here is sort of a mentality of mental health is sort of a mentality of mental health is sort of a mentality of mental health is this person's real problem and the is this person's real problem and the is this person's real problem and the Bible doesn't speak to that particular Bible doesn't speak to that particular Bible doesn't speak to that particular trouble. So we need other sets of trouble. So we need other sets of trouble. So we need other sets of language. I think both of those things language. I think both of those things language. I think both of those things are actual errors that I want to sort of are actual errors that I want to sort of are actual errors that I want to sort of guard us against. So here's what I'm guard us against. So here's what I'm guard us against. So here's what I'm driving at. if you want a main point. driving at. if you want a main point. driving at. if you want a main point. And by the way, don't not that I'm And by the way, don't not that I'm And by the way, don't not that I'm assuming anybody would even want to assuming anybody would even want to assuming anybody would even want to write down anything I say, but don't write down anything I say, but don't write down anything I say, but don't worry about scribbling this all down. If worry about scribbling this all down. If worry about scribbling this all down. If the t if if the editors at TGC allow me, the t if if the editors at TGC allow me, the t if if the editors at TGC allow me, I'm going to convert this into an I'm going to convert this into an I'm going to convert this into an article and post it for you if you would article and post it for you if you would article and post it for you if you would like it. But here's my main like it. But here's my main like it. But here's my main point. The chief purpose of the language point. The chief purpose of the language point. The chief purpose of the language we use to describe our we use to describe our we use to describe our experience should align with the chief experience should align with the chief experience should align with the chief purpose of our design as persons. And purpose of our design as persons. And purpose of our design as persons. And that is to know that is to know that is to know God. To know God in Jesus Christ God. To know God in Jesus Christ God. To know God in Jesus Christ specifically. So this is our purpose as specifically. So this is our purpose as specifically. So this is our purpose as embodied beings and everything we say

embodied beings and everything we say embodied beings and everything we say about mental health should be about mental health should be about mental health should be conscientiously downstream from that. conscientiously downstream from that. conscientiously downstream from that. Okay. So that's my main statement. And Okay. So that's my main statement. And Okay. So that's my main statement. And what I'm going to do in this talk is I what I'm going to do in this talk is I what I'm going to do in this talk is I want to construct a theological want to construct a theological want to construct a theological uh uh case for what I just said. And uh uh case for what I just said. And uh uh case for what I just said. And then I want to give you a very practical then I want to give you a very practical then I want to give you a very practical simple strategy for having a simple strategy for having a simple strategy for having a conversation with an actual human being conversation with an actual human being conversation with an actual human being uh in a way that I think is productive uh in a way that I think is productive uh in a way that I think is productive and helpful and not dismissive of their and helpful and not dismissive of their and helpful and not dismissive of their concerns while still guiding them to see concerns while still guiding them to see concerns while still guiding them to see the centrality of who God is to them. the centrality of who God is to them. the centrality of who God is to them. Make sense? That's a lot to do in 45 Make sense? That's a lot to do in 45 Make sense? That's a lot to do in 45 minutes. Okay, 37 minutes as I look. minutes. Okay, 37 minutes as I look. minutes. Okay, 37 minutes as I look. Okay. So, first I'm going to construct Okay. So, first I'm going to construct Okay. So, first I'm going to construct this my theological case and I'm going this my theological case and I'm going this my theological case and I'm going to do this in just a number of different to do this in just a number of different to do this in just a number of different statements. So, here's my first statements. So, here's my first statements. So, here's my first one. God made human beings to know him one. God made human beings to know him one. God made human beings to know him as their chief design purpose. Okay? If as their chief design purpose. Okay? If as their chief design purpose. Okay? If you if you were to ask yourself the you if you were to ask yourself the you if you were to ask yourself the question, why was I created? Why were question, why was I created? Why were question, why was I created? Why were human beings made? There would be one human beings made? There would be one human beings made? There would be one chief answer. There's lots of other chief answer. There's lots of other chief answer. There's lots of other answers, other purposes, but the one answers, other purposes, but the one answers, other purposes, but the one chief answer is to know God, to love chief answer is to know God, to love chief answer is to know God, to love him. We know this from many different him. We know this from many different him. We know this from many different places in scripture. We know this when places in scripture. We know this when places in scripture. We know this when Jesus says in Matthew 22 when he Jesus says in Matthew 22 when he Jesus says in Matthew 22 when he summarizes the entire law, the entire summarizes the entire law, the entire summarizes the entire law, the entire revealed will of God for human beings,

revealed will of God for human beings, revealed will of God for human beings, the law, the prophets, it's summarized the law, the prophets, it's summarized the law, the prophets, it's summarized in this. Do you know what it is in in this. Do you know what it is in in this. Do you know what it is in Matthew Matthew Matthew 22? You shall love the Lord your God 22? You shall love the Lord your God 22? You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and with all your heart, soul, mind, and with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And you the second is un the strength. And you the second is un the strength. And you the second is un the second is like unto it. You should love second is like unto it. You should love second is like unto it. You should love your neighbor as your neighbor as your neighbor as yourself. That's why God made humanity yourself. That's why God made humanity yourself. That's why God made humanity to know him and love him. That is how he to know him and love him. That is how he to know him and love him. That is how he glorifies himself in us. Okay. There's glorifies himself in us. Okay. There's glorifies himself in us. Okay. There's lots of other places that scripture lots of other places that scripture lots of other places that scripture makes this case. Jesus ends his high makes this case. Jesus ends his high makes this case. Jesus ends his high priestly prayer the night before he was priestly prayer the night before he was priestly prayer the night before he was killed with these words from John 17. killed with these words from John 17. killed with these words from John 17. I made known to them your name, and I I made known to them your name, and I I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known that the will continue to make it known that the will continue to make it known that the love with which you have loved love with which you have loved love with which you have loved me may be in them and I in them. It's me may be in them and I in them. It's me may be in them and I in them. It's beautiful, guys. Think about beautiful, guys. Think about beautiful, guys. Think about this. You were made to love this. You were made to love this. You were made to love God in return for his love for you that God in return for his love for you that God in return for his love for you that came came came first. That's why you were made.

first. That's why you were made. first. That's why you were made. So, so, so I'm not saying that's going So, so, so I'm not saying that's going So, so, so I'm not saying that's going to solve all mental health problems. to solve all mental health problems. to solve all mental health problems. Don't think that I'm going there. But Don't think that I'm going there. But Don't think that I'm going there. But what I am reminding you of is anytime what I am reminding you of is anytime what I am reminding you of is anytime we're talking about troubles downstream, we're talking about troubles downstream, we're talking about troubles downstream, we have to remember what's the source, we have to remember what's the source, we have to remember what's the source, what's the center for of your design, what's the center for of your design, what's the center for of your design, the purpose God made you is to know him the purpose God made you is to know him the purpose God made you is to know him and to find life in his love for you. So and to find life in his love for you. So and to find life in his love for you. So the purpose of the purpose of the purpose of personhood should dictate the purpose of personhood should dictate the purpose of personhood should dictate the purpose of the language we use to describe what the language we use to describe what the language we use to describe what goes wrong with us. Okay, so there's my goes wrong with us. Okay, so there's my goes wrong with us. Okay, so there's my first statement. Here's a second first statement. Here's a second first statement. Here's a second statement to just I'm building my statement to just I'm building my statement to just I'm building my theological theological theological case. Second, God made human beings in case. Second, God made human beings in case. Second, God made human beings in his image his image his image as interpreters of the world. as interpreters of the world. as interpreters of the world. God made you to interpret your God made you to interpret your God made you to interpret your experience, to interpret the world as he experience, to interpret the world as he experience, to interpret the world as he laid it out. There's many different laid it out. There's many different laid it out. There's many different places we could look to for scripture to places we could look to for scripture to places we could look to for scripture to make this case. I think the most obvious make this case. I think the most obvious make this case. I think the most obvious one is Genesis 1 in the creation one is Genesis 1 in the creation one is Genesis 1 in the creation account. If you were to read verses 26- account. If you were to read verses 26- account. If you were to read verses 26- 28, it's this sort of interplay where 28, it's this sort of interplay where 28, it's this sort of interplay where the Trinity is discussing, all right, the Trinity is discussing, all right, the Trinity is discussing, all right, what are we going to do as we make man?

what are we going to do as we make man? what are we going to do as we make man? Let's make him in our image. Let's let's Let's make him in our image. Let's let's Let's make him in our image. Let's let's give him dominion over all of these give him dominion over all of these give him dominion over all of these different facets of creation. Then verse different facets of creation. Then verse different facets of creation. Then verse 27 says, "So he makes them male and 27 says, "So he makes them male and 27 says, "So he makes them male and female." Then verse 28 records the very female." Then verse 28 records the very female." Then verse 28 records the very first conversation that God has with first conversation that God has with first conversation that God has with human beings. Do you know? Do you human beings. Do you know? Do you human beings. Do you know? Do you remember the content of that remember the content of that remember the content of that conversation? It actually wasn't, "Let conversation? It actually wasn't, "Let conversation? It actually wasn't, "Let me introduce myself to you, Adam. I'm me introduce myself to you, Adam. I'm me introduce myself to you, Adam. I'm God." It's actually the the topic of the God." It's actually the the topic of the God." It's actually the the topic of the first conversation between God and man first conversation between God and man first conversation between God and man was man. He said, "Hey, this is who you was man. He said, "Hey, this is who you was man. He said, "Hey, this is who you are." and I've and I've given you this are." and I've and I've given you this are." and I've and I've given you this task to have dominion over the world. task to have dominion over the world. task to have dominion over the world. And as we continue reading into chapter And as we continue reading into chapter And as we continue reading into chapter 1 and chapter 2, we see that one of the 1 and chapter 2, we see that one of the 1 and chapter 2, we see that one of the main ways Adam exercises dominion is main ways Adam exercises dominion is main ways Adam exercises dominion is actually through naming through the use actually through naming through the use actually through naming through the use of words through through attributing the of words through through attributing the of words through through attributing the correct meaning to the world in which he correct meaning to the world in which he correct meaning to the world in which he lives because he listened to God. Oh, lives because he listened to God. Oh, lives because he listened to God. Oh, this is who I am. I am listening to this is who I am. I am listening to this is who I am. I am listening to words about myself. So as I believe words about myself. So as I believe words about myself. So as I believe those words about myself, I now rightly those words about myself, I now rightly those words about myself, I now rightly am interpreting everything that you are am interpreting everything that you are am interpreting everything that you are telling me now to do. So God made man in telling me now to do. So God made man in telling me now to do. So God made man in his own image with different capacities his own image with different capacities his own image with different capacities to bring order to the world. And to bring order to the world. And to bring order to the world. And language is one of the maybe first language is one of the maybe first language is one of the maybe first capacities and most important cap capacities and most important cap capacities and most important cap capacities that we capacities that we capacities that we have. The first thing God did again was have. The first thing God did again was have. The first thing God did again was speak to Adam.

speak to Adam. speak to Adam. and and that was how Adam then and and that was how Adam then and and that was how Adam then understood the reality in which he had understood the reality in which he had understood the reality in which he had been placed. And so, friends, what this been placed. And so, friends, what this been placed. And so, friends, what this means for us is we're constantly means for us is we're constantly means for us is we're constantly interpreting our experience. We're interpreting our experience. We're interpreting our experience. We're constantly interpreting the things constantly interpreting the things constantly interpreting the things around us. The question is, are you around us. The question is, are you around us. The question is, are you going to attribute the right meaning or going to attribute the right meaning or going to attribute the right meaning or the wrong meaning? I wish it were even the wrong meaning? I wish it were even the wrong meaning? I wish it were even that simple. It's more like in what kind that simple. It's more like in what kind that simple. It's more like in what kind of ways and corners are you doing it of ways and corners are you doing it of ways and corners are you doing it right, interpreting it right? And then right, interpreting it right? And then right, interpreting it right? And then in in what ways and corners are you in in what ways and corners are you in in what ways and corners are you interpreting it wrong? Are you interpreting it wrong? Are you interpreting it wrong? Are you attributing the wrong meaning to attributing the wrong meaning to attributing the wrong meaning to something? But but that's but my point something? But but that's but my point something? But but that's but my point for now is simply you're an interpreter. for now is simply you're an interpreter. for now is simply you're an interpreter. God made you that way. So the things God made you that way. So the things God made you that way. So the things that happened to you take that process that happened to you take that process that happened to you take that process of what meaning will I attribute to of what meaning will I attribute to of what meaning will I attribute to this? Okay. So that leads to a third this? Okay. So that leads to a third this? Okay. So that leads to a third statement. statement. statement. The language we use displays the meaning The language we use displays the meaning The language we use displays the meaning we attribute to the we attribute to the we attribute to the world, including our experiences. So, world, including our experiences. So, world, including our experiences. So, like I said, you continue reading from like I said, you continue reading from like I said, you continue reading from Genesis 1 into Genesis 2. Then the Lord Genesis 1 into Genesis 2. Then the Lord Genesis 1 into Genesis 2. Then the Lord formed all of the animals out of the formed all of the animals out of the formed all of the animals out of the ground and he parades them in front of ground and he parades them in front of ground and he parades them in front of Adam. Do you remember what purpose he Adam. Do you remember what purpose he Adam. Do you remember what purpose he puts them in front of Adam? Remember, he puts them in front of Adam? Remember, he puts them in front of Adam? Remember, he just got done saying, "Hey, I made you just got done saying, "Hey, I made you just got done saying, "Hey, I made you to have dominion over all these, so here to have dominion over all these, so here to have dominion over all these, so here they are." And he starts to express his they are." And he starts to express his they are." And he starts to express his dominion by doing what? By naming them.

dominion by doing what? By naming them. dominion by doing what? By naming them. Okay? Now, you got to got to remember Okay? Now, you got to got to remember Okay? Now, you got to got to remember your Bibles, right? The importance of your Bibles, right? The importance of your Bibles, right? The importance of what naming actually is. It's not just what naming actually is. It's not just what naming actually is. It's not just that Adam was like, "Oh, look at that that Adam was like, "Oh, look at that that Adam was like, "Oh, look at that thing with a funny long neck. Giraffe. thing with a funny long neck. Giraffe. thing with a funny long neck. Giraffe. That's a silly sounding word because That's a silly sounding word because That's a silly sounding word because it's a silly sounding thing. Oh, it's a silly sounding thing. Oh, it's a silly sounding thing. Oh, giraffe, elephant, frog." No. When he giraffe, elephant, frog." No. When he giraffe, elephant, frog." No. When he was naming, he was categorizing. He was was naming, he was categorizing. He was was naming, he was categorizing. He was attributing meaning to he was organizing attributing meaning to he was organizing attributing meaning to he was organizing it was in other words it was part of his it was in other words it was part of his it was in other words it was part of his dominion function. He was he was dominion function. He was he was dominion function. He was he was attributing meaning to all these attributing meaning to all these attributing meaning to all these things. And how do we know that this is things. And how do we know that this is things. And how do we know that this is what he was what he was what he was doing? Because you may not realize this doing? Because you may not realize this doing? Because you may not realize this but it was in that process where Adam but it was in that process where Adam but it was in that process where Adam realized hey there's not another one of realized hey there's not another one of realized hey there's not another one of those that are like those that are like those that are like me. I understand that I am alone. I me. I understand that I am alone. I me. I understand that I am alone. I understand that I am incomplete. Adam understand that I am incomplete. Adam understand that I am incomplete. Adam came to understand something about his came to understand something about his came to understand something about his experience accurately as he was experience accurately as he was experience accurately as he was listening to the words of God and listening to the words of God and listening to the words of God and attributing words to other things. And attributing words to other things. And attributing words to other things. And so that's why God put him to sleep, took so that's why God put him to sleep, took so that's why God put him to sleep, took out a rib and made and made Eve and he out a rib and made and made Eve and he out a rib and made and made Eve and he was blown away. And suddenly poetry was blown away. And suddenly poetry was blown away. And suddenly poetry falls out of him, okay, about how falls out of him, okay, about how falls out of him, okay, about how beautiful she is.

beautiful she is. beautiful she is. So, Adam's language, I want this to be So, Adam's language, I want this to be So, Adam's language, I want this to be clear to you. Adam's language didn't clear to you. Adam's language didn't clear to you. Adam's language didn't create create create reality, but it showed his understanding reality, but it showed his understanding reality, but it showed his understanding of reality. It shows that he was trying of reality. It shows that he was trying of reality. It shows that he was trying to track along with the task that God to track along with the task that God to track along with the task that God had given him in assigning meaning to had given him in assigning meaning to had given him in assigning meaning to everything around him. Okay. So, next everything around him. Okay. So, next everything around him. Okay. So, next statement. Statement number four. statement. Statement number four. statement. Statement number four. God made the world beyond our ability to God made the world beyond our ability to God made the world beyond our ability to comprehend comprehend comprehend exhaustively, including your own exhaustively, including your own exhaustively, including your own experience as an embodied soul living in experience as an embodied soul living in experience as an embodied soul living in this broken and fallen world. So in this broken and fallen world. So in this broken and fallen world. So in other words, this is what I'm saying to other words, this is what I'm saying to other words, this is what I'm saying to you guys. You and I are never going to you guys. You and I are never going to you guys. You and I are never going to understand everything there is to understand everything there is to understand everything there is to understand even about our own existence. understand even about our own existence. understand even about our own existence. So the language that we end up using is So the language that we end up using is So the language that we end up using is going to is going to be limited. It's going to is going to be limited. It's going to is going to be limited. It's going to be partial. It's going to be going to be partial. It's going to be going to be partial. It's going to be describing part, not the whole. It's not describing part, not the whole. It's not describing part, not the whole. It's not wrong. We just have to recognize that wrong. We just have to recognize that wrong. We just have to recognize that that's part of our that's part of our that's part of our limitations and it's not part of God's limitations and it's not part of God's limitations and it's not part of God's limitations. God alone sees every limitations. God alone sees every limitations. God alone sees every dimension of who we are and how we dimension of who we are and how we dimension of who we are and how we suffer and what we go through. So it suffer and what we go through. So it suffer and what we go through. So it makes me think of Hebrews 11:3. By faith makes me think of Hebrews 11:3. By faith makes me think of Hebrews 11:3. By faith we understand that the universe was we understand that the universe was we understand that the universe was created by the word of God so that what created by the word of God so that what created by the word of God so that what is seen was not made out of things that is seen was not made out of things that is seen was not made out of things that are visible. By by faith we have to are visible. By by faith we have to are visible. By by faith we have to grasp this. We have to recognize the grasp this. We have to recognize the grasp this. We have to recognize the difference between God's knowledge and difference between God's knowledge and difference between God's knowledge and creative capacity and our limited creative capacity and our limited creative capacity and our limited knowledge and created

knowledge and created knowledge and created capacity. So here's what I'm getting at capacity. So here's what I'm getting at capacity. So here's what I'm getting at with this main point, with this main point, with this main point, folks. Your life is actually probably folks. Your life is actually probably folks. Your life is actually probably more dimensional and more complex than more dimensional and more complex than more dimensional and more complex than you typically realize. you typically realize. you typically realize. And so I'm about to sort of what I'm And so I'm about to sort of what I'm And so I'm about to sort of what I'm building the theological case for is not building the theological case for is not building the theological case for is not that we reject all understandings of that we reject all understandings of that we reject all understandings of mental health in terms of things can go mental health in terms of things can go mental health in terms of things can go wrong with our bodies. There's a wrong with our bodies. There's a wrong with our bodies. There's a brokenness to it. But what I am pointing brokenness to it. But what I am pointing brokenness to it. But what I am pointing out with this is the Bible actually out with this is the Bible actually out with this is the Bible actually tells us a way richer and more tells us a way richer and more tells us a way richer and more dimensional understanding of what goes dimensional understanding of what goes dimensional understanding of what goes wrong with us. There's at least four wrong with us. There's at least four wrong with us. There's at least four dimensions that are repeated over and dimensions that are repeated over and dimensions that are repeated over and over and over again. Anybody from sort over and over again. Anybody from sort over and over again. Anybody from sort of reformed circles, what are the three of reformed circles, what are the three of reformed circles, what are the three enemies of your soul? You guys know the enemies of your soul? You guys know the enemies of your soul? You guys know the world, the flesh, and the devil. Okay, world, the flesh, and the devil. Okay, world, the flesh, and the devil. Okay, that's sort of how the Bible talks. You that's sort of how the Bible talks. You that's sort of how the Bible talks. You can kind of doubleclick on the flesh and can kind of doubleclick on the flesh and can kind of doubleclick on the flesh and it expands into two. So, let me let me it expands into two. So, let me let me it expands into two. So, let me let me explain what I mean and how this is explain what I mean and how this is explain what I mean and how this is important. Okay, think about when you important. Okay, think about when you important. Okay, think about when you are in when you experience pain, when are in when you experience pain, when are in when you experience pain, when you experience difficulty, you're you're you experience difficulty, you're you're you experience difficulty, you're you're like, man, I I shouldn't be thinking like, man, I I shouldn't be thinking like, man, I I shouldn't be thinking this, but I am. I shouldn't be this, but I am. I shouldn't be this, but I am. I shouldn't be overwhelmed by this emotion, but I am.

overwhelmed by this emotion, but I am. overwhelmed by this emotion, but I am. What's going wrong with that? We want to What's going wrong with that? We want to What's going wrong with that? We want to have as dimensional a a world view of have as dimensional a a world view of have as dimensional a a world view of that as the Bible gives. And what the that as the Bible gives. And what the that as the Bible gives. And what the Bible says is, okay, you have you have a Bible says is, okay, you have you have a Bible says is, okay, you have you have a sinful and corrupt heart. That's part of sinful and corrupt heart. That's part of sinful and corrupt heart. That's part of your flesh. We're fallen, guys. Genesis your flesh. We're fallen, guys. Genesis your flesh. We're fallen, guys. Genesis 3 was a serious historic situation that 3 was a serious historic situation that 3 was a serious historic situation that put all of us in a place where our put all of us in a place where our put all of us in a place where our hearts are set against the the the one hearts are set against the the the one hearts are set against the the the one chief designed purpose already laid out chief designed purpose already laid out chief designed purpose already laid out to you. We were made to know God, but to you. We were made to know God, but to you. We were made to know God, but now we run from him. Now we don't want now we run from him. Now we don't want now we run from him. Now we don't want to have anything to do with him. We fear to have anything to do with him. We fear to have anything to do with him. We fear his holiness. We prefer his gifts and we his holiness. We prefer his gifts and we his holiness. We prefer his gifts and we want to ignore him as giver. So guess want to ignore him as giver. So guess want to ignore him as giver. So guess what? That is an element of your what? That is an element of your what? That is an element of your suffering is your own suffering is your own suffering is your own sin. But that's not the only element. sin. But that's not the only element. sin. But that's not the only element. You can kind of think flesh too if you You can kind of think flesh too if you You can kind of think flesh too if you will. There's also that's moral evil. will. There's also that's moral evil. will. There's also that's moral evil. We've also we live in a fallen world in We've also we live in a fallen world in We've also we live in a fallen world in fallen bodies. And so that means we also fallen bodies. And so that means we also fallen bodies. And so that means we also suffer. There is a natural evil that we suffer. There is a natural evil that we suffer. There is a natural evil that we also suffer from. Your body doesn't work also suffer from. Your body doesn't work also suffer from. Your body doesn't work right entirely. And some of your bodies right entirely. And some of your bodies right entirely. And some of your bodies work wrongly in different ways than the work wrongly in different ways than the work wrongly in different ways than the way other bodies are way other bodies are way other bodies are broken. Some of you have digestion broken. Some of you have digestion broken. Some of you have digestion issues issues issues constantly. Some of you have some of you constantly. Some of you have some of you constantly. Some of you have some of you will one day have cancer.

will one day have cancer. will one day have cancer. Some of you will struggle with mental Some of you will struggle with mental Some of you will struggle with mental focus in ways that others will not. My focus in ways that others will not. My focus in ways that others will not. My point to you is God's good design of the point to you is God's good design of the point to you is God's good design of the created world was thrown into chaos by created world was thrown into chaos by created world was thrown into chaos by Adam and Eve's sin. And that's another Adam and Eve's sin. And that's another Adam and Eve's sin. And that's another element of your suffering. You're not element of your suffering. You're not element of your suffering. You're not just a sinful. You don't have just a just a sinful. You don't have just a just a sinful. You don't have just a sinful heart that's corrupt. Your body sinful heart that's corrupt. Your body sinful heart that's corrupt. Your body also suffers and is broken and doesn't also suffers and is broken and doesn't also suffers and is broken and doesn't function optimally as God made it function optimally as God made it function optimally as God made it to. But there's more that the Bible to. But there's more that the Bible to. But there's more that the Bible actually says. And we typically don't actually says. And we typically don't actually says. And we typically don't think about this. And maybe it sounds think about this. And maybe it sounds think about this. And maybe it sounds weird to you to me to for me to mention weird to you to me to for me to mention weird to you to me to for me to mention the next two things in a talk on mental the next two things in a talk on mental the next two things in a talk on mental health. But you know what another enemy health. But you know what another enemy health. But you know what another enemy of your soul is and a disruptor to your of your soul is and a disruptor to your of your soul is and a disruptor to your experiences is the world. You know what experiences is the world. You know what experiences is the world. You know what the world is? the world is? the world is? The world is that it's it's the The world is that it's it's the The world is that it's it's the cacophony of voices that speak to you cacophony of voices that speak to you cacophony of voices that speak to you and undermine your ability to see and and undermine your ability to see and and undermine your ability to see and trust God. It's all of the messaging out trust God. It's all of the messaging out trust God. It's all of the messaging out there that's in it. It's on the voice of there that's in it. It's on the voice of there that's in it. It's on the voice of your neighbors. It's on your screen as your neighbors. It's on your screen as your neighbors. It's on your screen as you're scrolling. It's on the news when you're scrolling. It's on the news when you're scrolling. It's on the news when you turn it on. It's in the music you you turn it on. It's in the music you you turn it on. It's in the music you put on your earbuds. All of this, put on your earbuds. All of this, put on your earbuds. All of this, friends, is this is what John talks friends, is this is what John talks friends, is this is what John talks about in 1 John 2. That that the world about in 1 John 2. That that the world about in 1 John 2. That that the world does not want you to continue to believe does not want you to continue to believe does not want you to continue to believe that God is who he says he is and to that God is who he says he is and to that God is who he says he is and to trust him in Jesus Christ. That is an trust him in Jesus Christ. That is an trust him in Jesus Christ. That is an element of your suffering. You're element of your suffering. You're element of your suffering. You're getting messaging all the time on who getting messaging all the time on who getting messaging all the time on who you should have been, what you do have a

you should have been, what you do have a you should have been, what you do have a right to, how relationships really right to, how relationships really right to, how relationships really should work, what a really ideal should work, what a really ideal should work, what a really ideal marriage ought to be. All these messages marriage ought to be. All these messages marriage ought to be. All these messages that are mixing you up and shifting and that are mixing you up and shifting and that are mixing you up and shifting and changing your changing your changing your expectations are part of the formula, expectations are part of the formula, expectations are part of the formula, aren't aren't aren't they? And now you're really going to get they? And now you're really going to get they? And now you're really going to get freaked out when I say this last one, freaked out when I say this last one, freaked out when I say this last one, the devil. the devil. the devil. Guys, the Bible has a very real um view Guys, the Bible has a very real um view Guys, the Bible has a very real um view of the evil one's activity in causing of the evil one's activity in causing of the evil one's activity in causing disruption in the lives of his children disruption in the lives of his children disruption in the lives of his children and and the lives of people who aren't and and the lives of people who aren't and and the lives of people who aren't his children. The enemy is here to steal his children. The enemy is here to steal his children. The enemy is here to steal and kill and destroy. Have you ever and kill and destroy. Have you ever and kill and destroy. Have you ever noticed, guys, when you read in the noticed, guys, when you read in the noticed, guys, when you read in the Gospels, the if if you're looking in the Gospels, the if if you're looking in the Gospels, the if if you're looking in the Bible narrative for the closest thing Bible narrative for the closest thing Bible narrative for the closest thing that we could call like sort of mental that we could call like sort of mental that we could call like sort of mental breakdowns or psychosis and stuff like breakdowns or psychosis and stuff like breakdowns or psychosis and stuff like that, people going crazy, convulsing, that, people going crazy, convulsing, that, people going crazy, convulsing, throwing themselves down, you ever throwing themselves down, you ever throwing themselves down, you ever notice it's about it's about demon notice it's about it's about demon notice it's about it's about demon possession? How how do you how do you possession? How how do you how do you possession? How how do you how do you deal with that in terms of what what's a deal with that in terms of what what's a deal with that in terms of what what's a good hermeneutic of scripture there? Is good hermeneutic of scripture there? Is good hermeneutic of scripture there? Is it, oh, oh, that was in Bible times. We it, oh, oh, that was in Bible times. We it, oh, oh, that was in Bible times. We that that doesn't happen now. No, I that that doesn't happen now. No, I that that doesn't happen now. No, I don't think so.

don't think so. don't think so. I also wouldn't actually go the other I also wouldn't actually go the other I also wouldn't actually go the other extreme and just say every every sort of extreme and just say every every sort of extreme and just say every every sort of psychosis somebody goes through or if psychosis somebody goes through or if psychosis somebody goes through or if there is something going wrong with there is something going wrong with there is something going wrong with their brain, it's because they're their brain, it's because they're their brain, it's because they're possessed by a demon. I'm not making possessed by a demon. I'm not making possessed by a demon. I'm not making that case either. I'm just simply saying that case either. I'm just simply saying that case either. I'm just simply saying we have four dimensions that scripture we have four dimensions that scripture we have four dimensions that scripture provides for us to have a richer, fuller provides for us to have a richer, fuller provides for us to have a richer, fuller view of what's going on when my when view of what's going on when my when view of what's going on when my when when I can't even keep things when I can't even keep things when I can't even keep things straight. Does that make sense to you straight. Does that make sense to you straight. Does that make sense to you guys? guys? guys? So I'm talking dimensions, right? This So I'm talking dimensions, right? This So I'm talking dimensions, right? This is the this is the only object I have is the this is the only object I have is the this is the only object I have within my grasp. Okay? But when I say within my grasp. Okay? But when I say within my grasp. Okay? But when I say dimension, what I simply mean is like dimension, what I simply mean is like dimension, what I simply mean is like objects that we have have multiple objects that we have have multiple objects that we have have multiple dimension. I'm not talking like dimension. I'm not talking like dimension. I'm not talking like Interstellar, even though that's a cool Interstellar, even though that's a cool Interstellar, even though that's a cool movie with different dimensions. But movie with different dimensions. But movie with different dimensions. But this bottle has a width. This bottle has this bottle has a width. This bottle has this bottle has a width. This bottle has a length. This bottle has it it looks a length. This bottle has it it looks a length. This bottle has it it looks like a circle if you look at it from like a circle if you look at it from like a circle if you look at it from this angle. We could measure the water this angle. We could measure the water this angle. We could measure the water temperature in here. We could mention, temperature in here. We could mention, temperature in here. We could mention, we could measure the water purity in we could measure the water purity in we could measure the water purity in there. My wife is always telling me to there. My wife is always telling me to there. My wife is always telling me to buy spring water. This one's purified buy spring water. This one's purified buy spring water. This one's purified water, which she would spit out of her water, which she would spit out of her water, which she would spit out of her mouth. Okay. She's pretty bougie. Not mouth. Okay. She's pretty bougie. Not mouth. Okay. She's pretty bougie. Not really. She's an Indiana girl. I'm just really. She's an Indiana girl. I'm just really. She's an Indiana girl. I'm just playing around. Um, but my point to you playing around. Um, but my point to you playing around. Um, but my point to you guys is when So, so when we say things guys is when So, so when we say things guys is when So, so when we say things like, "Hey, that is a mental problem."

like, "Hey, that is a mental problem." like, "Hey, that is a mental problem." We're not necessarily saying that's also We're not necessarily saying that's also We're not necessarily saying that's also not a spiritual problem and it's also not a spiritual problem and it's also not a spiritual problem and it's also not a problem where the evil one is not a problem where the evil one is not a problem where the evil one is really trying to attack someone and also really trying to attack someone and also really trying to attack someone and also not a problem where the world's not a problem where the world's not a problem where the world's influence in shaping expectations is is influence in shaping expectations is is influence in shaping expectations is is on display here. Does it I hope that on display here. Does it I hope that on display here. Does it I hope that made sense to you. I know that was a lot. So here's another statement for lot. So here's another statement for you. you. you. The language people The language people The language people use will only partially convey the use will only partially convey the use will only partially convey the meaning of a given experience. Okay? So, meaning of a given experience. Okay? So, meaning of a given experience. Okay? So, there's gonna be a there's gonna be a there's gonna be a tendency to emphasize one thing over tendency to emphasize one thing over tendency to emphasize one thing over another thing when you're describing to another thing when you're describing to another thing when you're describing to your friend or you're describing to your friend or you're describing to your friend or you're describing to yourself what has gone wrong. Okay? yourself what has gone wrong. Okay? yourself what has gone wrong. Okay? because you're not God and you can't see because you're not God and you can't see because you're not God and you can't see all things as they are immediately and all things as they are immediately and all things as they are immediately and have access to all knowledge. That means have access to all knowledge. That means have access to all knowledge. That means that you are going to sort of do that you are going to sort of do that you are going to sort of do shorthand when you're telling yourself shorthand when you're telling yourself shorthand when you're telling yourself what it is that you're going through. So what it is that you're going through. So what it is that you're going through. So you're the language you use takes those you're the language you use takes those you're the language you use takes those shortcuts and puts emphasis and priority shortcuts and puts emphasis and priority shortcuts and puts emphasis and priority on one thing probably usually to the on one thing probably usually to the on one thing probably usually to the exclusion of other things. Okay. So so exclusion of other things. Okay. So so exclusion of other things. Okay. So so let me give you an example. I I hear the let me give you an example. I I hear the let me give you an example. I I hear the word triggering all the time now. Do you word triggering all the time now. Do you word triggering all the time now. Do you as well? Very triggering. My workplace as well? Very triggering. My workplace as well? Very triggering. My workplace is triggering to me. I don't think I can is triggering to me. I don't think I can is triggering to me. I don't think I can mentally function in that environment.

mentally function in that environment. mentally function in that environment. Okay, that may not be a false statement. Okay, that may not be a false statement. Okay, that may not be a false statement. Okay, but but but using that language, Okay, but but but using that language, Okay, but but but using that language, what is the point of emphasis? What gets what is the point of emphasis? What gets what is the point of emphasis? What gets priority of attention when you say priority of attention when you say priority of attention when you say triggering? It's the what gets priority triggering? It's the what gets priority triggering? It's the what gets priority of of attention is the effect that your of of attention is the effect that your of of attention is the effect that your workplace has on your emotional state. workplace has on your emotional state. workplace has on your emotional state. Okay. So again, there's tough workplaces Okay. So again, there's tough workplaces Okay. So again, there's tough workplaces and workplaces can definitely have the and workplaces can definitely have the and workplaces can definitely have the effect on provoking certain emotions in effect on provoking certain emotions in effect on provoking certain emotions in us. Okay. But but I think where I'm us. Okay. But but I think where I'm us. Okay. But but I think where I'm challenging us to think broadly is challenging us to think broadly is challenging us to think broadly is that's only part of the story of it, that's only part of the story of it, that's only part of the story of it, isn't it? isn't it? isn't it? And so what what we often do is we say And so what what we often do is we say And so what what we often do is we say things like that's a very triggering things like that's a very triggering things like that's a very triggering work environment and we've put the work environment and we've put the work environment and we've put the period as if it's concluded. We now know period as if it's concluded. We now know period as if it's concluded. We now know the problem when we're only seeing part the problem when we're only seeing part the problem when we're only seeing part of the problem. The external provocation of the problem. The external provocation of the problem. The external provocation is certainly part of the meaning, but is certainly part of the meaning, but is certainly part of the meaning, but it's not the only meaning to consider.

it's not the only meaning to consider. it's not the only meaning to consider. The person was also The person was also The person was also responding from their spiritual heart. responding from their spiritual heart. responding from their spiritual heart. her beliefs and desires were active in her beliefs and desires were active in her beliefs and desires were active in her negative response to that ne that her negative response to that ne that her negative response to that ne that admittedly negative admittedly negative admittedly negative environment. So I guess what I'm saying environment. So I guess what I'm saying environment. So I guess what I'm saying is God has much to say about both things is God has much to say about both things is God has much to say about both things and we need to be considering both. So and we need to be considering both. So and we need to be considering both. So here's my next statement. These are here's my next statement. These are here's my next statement. These are stacking. I'm moving somewhere. stacking. I'm moving somewhere. stacking. I'm moving somewhere. Every language choice is, here's a key Every language choice is, here's a key Every language choice is, here's a key word for the whole talk, is a word for the whole talk, is a word for the whole talk, is a prioritization. It's a prioritization. prioritization. It's a prioritization. prioritization. It's a prioritization. We're we're we're setting a priority. We're we're we're setting a priority. We're we're we're setting a priority. Language is about both the truth content Language is about both the truth content Language is about both the truth content of something, but also the the priority of something, but also the the priority of something, but also the the priority we place. So, what we choose to prioritize in the So, what we choose to prioritize in the language we use is what we're drawing language we use is what we're drawing language we use is what we're drawing most attention to as the center of the most attention to as the center of the most attention to as the center of the problem. Does that make sense? Here's a problem. Does that make sense? Here's a problem. Does that make sense? Here's a silly example. I'm an Ohio State silly example. I'm an Ohio State silly example. I'm an Ohio State Buckeyes fan. Anybody else out there?

Buckeyes fan. Anybody else out there? Buckeyes fan. Anybody else out there? Thank you. The Oh, IO. That's right. Thank you. The Oh, IO. That's right. Thank you. The Oh, IO. That's right. Okay. There's two ways to describe I've Okay. There's two ways to describe I've Okay. There's two ways to describe I've heard the the the national championship heard the the the national championship heard the the the national championship Ohio State Buckeyes. Okay. Here's one Ohio State Buckeyes. Okay. Here's one Ohio State Buckeyes. Okay. Here's one way. the ninetime national championship way. the ninetime national championship way. the ninetime national championship Ohio State Ohio State Ohio State Buckeyes or the $20 million roster Buckeyes or the $20 million roster Buckeyes or the $20 million roster purchased national championship Ohio purchased national championship Ohio purchased national championship Ohio State Buckeyes. Okay, my Michigan State Buckeyes. Okay, my Michigan State Buckeyes. Okay, my Michigan friends say this. My Ohio State friends friends say this. My Ohio State friends friends say this. My Ohio State friends say this. Here's my That's right. That's say this. Here's my That's right. That's say this. Here's my That's right. That's right. Here's my point. Both of those right. Here's my point. Both of those right. Here's my point. Both of those statements are actually factually true. statements are actually factually true. statements are actually factually true. Okay. They're both factually true. Okay. They're both factually true. Okay. They're both factually true. But the difference in the language shows But the difference in the language shows But the difference in the language shows what you actually it leads to very what you actually it leads to very what you actually it leads to very different conclusions, doesn't it? One different conclusions, doesn't it? One different conclusions, doesn't it? One conclusion is, "Wow, that's a great conclusion is, "Wow, that's a great conclusion is, "Wow, that's a great program. Maybe the best program. Maybe the best program. Maybe the best ever." The other opposite conclusion ever." The other opposite conclusion ever." The other opposite conclusion again with other truth is, "Dude, they again with other truth is, "Dude, they again with other truth is, "Dude, they just bought their whole roster. That's just bought their whole roster. That's just bought their whole roster. That's not that impressive of a not that impressive of a not that impressive of a program." We do this, folks. We do this program." We do this, folks. We do this program." We do this, folks. We do this in nonsilly ways. The language we use in nonsilly ways. The language we use in nonsilly ways. The language we use sets the priority of attention on one sets the priority of attention on one sets the priority of attention on one thing or another leading to very thing or another leading to very thing or another leading to very different conclusions. That's what I'm different conclusions. That's what I'm different conclusions. That's what I'm trying to say.

trying to say. trying to say. And so as we sort of think through what And so as we sort of think through what And so as we sort of think through what does it mean to what does it mean to um does it mean to what does it mean to um does it mean to what does it mean to um to to judge the best way the best to to judge the best way the best to to judge the best way the best language to use? We have to think about language to use? We have to think about language to use? We have to think about both the truth content of it and the both the truth content of it and the both the truth content of it and the prioritization of it. So here's another prioritization of it. So here's another prioritization of it. So here's another term that that we're using a lot these term that that we're using a lot these term that that we're using a lot these days is self-care. Okay, self-care if days is self-care. Okay, self-care if days is self-care. Okay, self-care if you're kind of analyzing the truth you're kind of analyzing the truth you're kind of analyzing the truth content of it. There can be a false way content of it. There can be a false way content of it. There can be a false way of understanding self-care that it's of understanding self-care that it's of understanding self-care that it's sort of it's all of these uh it it's sort of it's all of these uh it it's sort of it's all of these uh it it's sort of a self-indulgent view that sort sort of a self-indulgent view that sort sort of a self-indulgent view that sort of sees my emotional that like I should of sees my emotional that like I should of sees my emotional that like I should arrange my life in such a way where I arrange my life in such a way where I arrange my life in such a way where I don't experience negative emotion. don't experience negative emotion. don't experience negative emotion. That's what it means to have self-care. That's what it means to have self-care. That's what it means to have self-care. Well, that truth content is bogus. But Well, that truth content is bogus. But Well, that truth content is bogus. But if but but we can mean self-care, I if but but we can mean self-care, I if but but we can mean self-care, I think, in a way that squares with the think, in a way that squares with the think, in a way that squares with the Bible. If what we're meaning by that is Bible. If what we're meaning by that is Bible. If what we're meaning by that is I need to steward the limitations that I need to steward the limitations that I need to steward the limitations that God has installed me with and in so far God has installed me with and in so far God has installed me with and in so far as I don't I'm not getting the right as I don't I'm not getting the right as I don't I'm not getting the right sleep, I'm not getting the right uh sleep, I'm not getting the right uh sleep, I'm not getting the right uh mental rest, I'm not my my diet's all mental rest, I'm not my my diet's all mental rest, I'm not my my diet's all out of whack, in so far as I am not out of whack, in so far as I am not out of whack, in so far as I am not stewarding my body and my soul, things stewarding my body and my soul, things stewarding my body and my soul, things are going to go bad. Okay, so I think we are going to go bad. Okay, so I think we are going to go bad. Okay, so I think we can use self-care to describe that.

can use self-care to describe that. can use self-care to describe that. That's true. Okay. But then the other That's true. Okay. But then the other That's true. Okay. But then the other decision we have to make is how much of decision we have to make is how much of decision we have to make is how much of a priority does that become in the way a priority does that become in the way a priority does that become in the way we think about our troubles and our we think about our troubles and our we think about our troubles and our problems? Is lack of self-care the problems? Is lack of self-care the problems? Is lack of self-care the primary cause of this person's anxiety primary cause of this person's anxiety primary cause of this person's anxiety or that person's or that person's or that person's anxiety? Or are other explanations more anxiety? Or are other explanations more anxiety? Or are other explanations more central, more primary? central, more primary? central, more primary? Generally, it's easier for people to Generally, it's easier for people to Generally, it's easier for people to consider true but lesser concerns when consider true but lesser concerns when consider true but lesser concerns when handling these problems, right? So, they handling these problems, right? So, they handling these problems, right? So, they want to focus on, hey, diet, sleep, want to focus on, hey, diet, sleep, want to focus on, hey, diet, sleep, exercise. Again, do that guys, that's exercise. Again, do that guys, that's exercise. Again, do that guys, that's actually right. That's biblical to do. actually right. That's biblical to do. actually right. That's biblical to do. But sometimes people can use that to But sometimes people can use that to But sometimes people can use that to avoid the harder, deeper things like, avoid the harder, deeper things like, avoid the harder, deeper things like, "Wait a second. This anxiety actually "Wait a second. This anxiety actually "Wait a second. This anxiety actually comes from a heart that's wanting and comes from a heart that's wanting and comes from a heart that's wanting and expecting a certain version of the expecting a certain version of the expecting a certain version of the future that if I don't work hard, if I future that if I don't work hard, if I future that if I don't work hard, if I don't protect it, if I'm not vigilant don't protect it, if I'm not vigilant don't protect it, if I'm not vigilant enough, I won't get that version of the enough, I won't get that version of the enough, I won't get that version of the future and I don't know if I can trust future and I don't know if I can trust future and I don't know if I can trust God if that doesn't happen. You know how God if that doesn't happen. You know how God if that doesn't happen. You know how hard it is to submit that to hard it is to submit that to hard it is to submit that to God? It's impossible for us in the God? It's impossible for us in the God? It's impossible for us in the flesh. We h we need the faith God gives flesh. We h we need the faith God gives flesh. We h we need the faith God gives us to submit it. But my point to you is us to submit it. But my point to you is us to submit it. But my point to you is not that self-care is wrong, but not that self-care is wrong, but not that self-care is wrong, but sometimes it takes priority because it's sometimes it takes priority because it's sometimes it takes priority because it's easier to deal with than the deeper easier to deal with than the deeper easier to deal with than the deeper heart stuff. Does that make heart stuff. Does that make heart stuff. Does that make sense? Okay. Next, next point

sense? Okay. Next, next point sense? Okay. Next, next point here. Actually, I'm going to skip that here. Actually, I'm going to skip that here. Actually, I'm going to skip that point. Next, next point. point. Next, next point. point. Next, next point. Okay. So, I'm just going to keep with my Okay. So, I'm just going to keep with my Okay. So, I'm just going to keep with my original numbering, eight. Okay. Don't original numbering, eight. Okay. Don't original numbering, eight. Okay. Don't worry. I'll put this in an article if worry. I'll put this in an article if worry. I'll put this in an article if you're even interested. None of you you're even interested. None of you you're even interested. None of you probably are, but here we go. Okay. probably are, but here we go. Okay. probably are, but here we go. Okay. Human beings have always needed the word Human beings have always needed the word Human beings have always needed the word of God to interpret the world rightly, of God to interpret the world rightly, of God to interpret the world rightly, specifically to see the ultimate meaning specifically to see the ultimate meaning specifically to see the ultimate meaning of of their experience, to see the of of their experience, to see the of of their experience, to see the ultimate meaning behind what the pain ultimate meaning behind what the pain ultimate meaning behind what the pain that they're going through. that they're going through. that they're going through. Okay. I love Isaiah 43:7. Okay. I love Isaiah 43:7. Okay. I love Isaiah 43:7. God says of his children, I created them God says of his children, I created them God says of his children, I created them for my glory when I formed and made for my glory when I formed and made for my glory when I formed and made them. The ultimate meaning of creation them. The ultimate meaning of creation them. The ultimate meaning of creation is reveal revealed in God's word. The is reveal revealed in God's word. The is reveal revealed in God's word. The purpose for which he made all things is purpose for which he made all things is purpose for which he made all things is to display his glory in creation. And he to display his glory in creation. And he to display his glory in creation. And he does this by with us with human beings does this by with us with human beings does this by with us with human beings by us knowing and loving and adoring by us knowing and loving and adoring by us knowing and loving and adoring him. And so he did everything necessary him. And so he did everything necessary him. And so he did everything necessary in the gospel of Jesus Christ to restore in the gospel of Jesus Christ to restore in the gospel of Jesus Christ to restore that central relationship. And folks, it that central relationship. And folks, it that central relationship. And folks, it has an effect on every other dimension has an effect on every other dimension has an effect on every other dimension of our existence.

of our existence. of our existence. Okay? I'm not saying that a promise of Okay? I'm not saying that a promise of Okay? I'm not saying that a promise of the gospel is that what is the gospel is that what is the gospel is that what is physiologically broken in our bodies physiologically broken in our bodies physiologically broken in our bodies will get restored in this life. If I will get restored in this life. If I will get restored in this life. If I were to say that, you could I was I'm were to say that, you could I was I'm were to say that, you could I was I'm not going to say names. You could call not going to say names. You could call not going to say names. You could call me a faith healer. me a faith healer. me a faith healer. Okay, just we know that faith healers, Okay, just we know that faith healers, Okay, just we know that faith healers, you know, we we think they're silly for you know, we we think they're silly for you know, we we think they're silly for sort of casting out demons and making sort of casting out demons and making sort of casting out demons and making ridiculous promises like broken arms ridiculous promises like broken arms ridiculous promises like broken arms being healed. Okay? But but I'm also not being healed. Okay? But but I'm also not being healed. Okay? But but I'm also not saying that in this life God necessarily saying that in this life God necessarily saying that in this life God necessarily promises as part of the gospel package promises as part of the gospel package promises as part of the gospel package that something uh uh the mental duress that something uh uh the mental duress that something uh uh the mental duress that you tend towards for various that you tend towards for various that you tend towards for various reasons even physiologically is going to reasons even physiologically is going to reasons even physiologically is going to snap his fingers and go away. I'm not snap his fingers and go away. I'm not snap his fingers and go away. I'm not saying that. But what I am saying is saying that. But what I am saying is saying that. But what I am saying is this that as we learn to trust the Lord, this that as we learn to trust the Lord, this that as we learn to trust the Lord, as we learn to see our lives in relation as we learn to see our lives in relation as we learn to see our lives in relation to him, we are his children. We are his to him, we are his children. We are his to him, we are his children. We are his sheep. He is our father. He is our sheep. He is our father. He is our sheep. He is our father. He is our shepherd. As we learn to entrust shepherd. As we learn to entrust shepherd. As we learn to entrust ourselves to him, it does change the way ourselves to him, it does change the way ourselves to him, it does change the way we respond to those very difficulties.

we respond to those very difficulties. we respond to those very difficulties. It does. It has a transformative effect. It does. It has a transformative effect. It does. It has a transformative effect. And then that should change the way we And then that should change the way we And then that should change the way we then talk about these things. Okay. So then talk about these things. Okay. So then talk about these things. Okay. So here here's just an here here's just an here here's just an example. Do we use the word addiction? example. Do we use the word addiction? example. Do we use the word addiction? I think if by what we say when we use I think if by what we say when we use I think if by what we say when we use the word addiction, if what we mean is a the word addiction, if what we mean is a the word addiction, if what we mean is a physiological mechanism that someone has physiological mechanism that someone has physiological mechanism that someone has that that that now identifies them as an that that that now identifies them as an that that that now identifies them as an addict in some kind of core inescapable addict in some kind of core inescapable addict in some kind of core inescapable aspect of their identity in a in a way aspect of their identity in a in a way aspect of their identity in a in a way that doesn't recognize that that's a that doesn't recognize that that's a that doesn't recognize that that's a human being with a soul designed to human being with a soul designed to human being with a soul designed to relate to the uh to the unseen God. I do relate to the uh to the unseen God. I do relate to the uh to the unseen God. I do think it's wrong to speak of addiction think it's wrong to speak of addiction think it's wrong to speak of addiction like that. Rather, if we use the word like that. Rather, if we use the word like that. Rather, if we use the word addiction to simply acknowledge that addiction to simply acknowledge that addiction to simply acknowledge that when we participate in something when we participate in something when we participate in something especially of chemical uh uh dependence especially of chemical uh uh dependence especially of chemical uh uh dependence enough, our bodies become dependent upon enough, our bodies become dependent upon enough, our bodies become dependent upon it in a way that reduces our ability to it in a way that reduces our ability to it in a way that reduces our ability to make otherwise choices. Okay? But that make otherwise choices. Okay? But that make otherwise choices. Okay? But that that's an aspect of the brokenness of that's an aspect of the brokenness of that's an aspect of the brokenness of our bodies as well as a pursuit of the our bodies as well as a pursuit of the our bodies as well as a pursuit of the soul. And we see that the main problem soul. And we see that the main problem soul. And we see that the main problem is ultimately this addict needs the is ultimately this addict needs the is ultimately this addict needs the rescue of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then I rescue of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then I rescue of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then I think that's a right way to talk about

think that's a right way to talk about think that's a right way to talk about addictions. So do you kind of see where addictions. So do you kind of see where addictions. So do you kind of see where I'm going, guys? That's why I didn't I'm going, guys? That's why I didn't I'm going, guys? That's why I didn't give you a list of good terms and a list give you a list of good terms and a list give you a list of good terms and a list of bad terms. I do think there are terms of bad terms. I do think there are terms of bad terms. I do think there are terms out there in mental health lingo that out there in mental health lingo that out there in mental health lingo that are probably irreoverable. They're just are probably irreoverable. They're just are probably irreoverable. They're just they they just you can't really use them they they just you can't really use them they they just you can't really use them in a good construal way. I do think in a good construal way. I do think in a good construal way. I do think they're out there. But my point to you they're out there. But my point to you they're out there. But my point to you is how do you make those decisions? is how do you make those decisions? is how do you make those decisions? That's what I'm trying to give you a That's what I'm trying to give you a That's what I'm trying to give you a framework for. We use God's chief design framework for. We use God's chief design framework for. We use God's chief design purpose of us as people as the purpose of us as people as the purpose of us as people as the orientation point for all the language orientation point for all the language orientation point for all the language that that we then use to say what goes that that we then use to say what goes that that we then use to say what goes wrong with us. Okay. So, let me get wrong with us. Okay. So, let me get wrong with us. Okay. So, let me get practical in the last couple minutes practical in the last couple minutes practical in the last couple minutes here. Okay. So, this is just maybe here. Okay. So, this is just maybe here. Okay. So, this is just maybe practical guidance for using language practical guidance for using language practical guidance for using language wisely as you're speaking to someone. wisely as you're speaking to someone. wisely as you're speaking to someone. All right. So, I'm going to just imagine All right. So, I'm going to just imagine All right. So, I'm going to just imagine a scenario where maybe you have a wife a scenario where maybe you have a wife a scenario where maybe you have a wife who comes in and she's just really who comes in and she's just really who comes in and she's just really overwhelmed because her husband is, she overwhelmed because her husband is, she overwhelmed because her husband is, she keeps using the term a narcissist, is keeps using the term a narcissist, is keeps using the term a narcissist, is narcissistic. Okay? Is that legitimate narcissistic. Okay? Is that legitimate narcissistic. Okay? Is that legitimate terminology to use? What does it mean?

terminology to use? What does it mean? terminology to use? What does it mean? Uh how do we compare it to and weigh it Uh how do we compare it to and weigh it Uh how do we compare it to and weigh it against scripture? All the rest of that against scripture? All the rest of that against scripture? All the rest of that stuff. That's what I just kind of want stuff. That's what I just kind of want stuff. That's what I just kind of want to walk you through in terms of what I to walk you through in terms of what I to walk you through in terms of what I think it is to take the framework that I think it is to take the framework that I think it is to take the framework that I established and use it wisely in a real established and use it wisely in a real established and use it wisely in a real life conversation. life conversation. life conversation. Okay. So I think it's step Okay. So I think it's step Okay. So I think it's step one ask a person to explain why that one ask a person to explain why that one ask a person to explain why that particular therapy word effect effect particular therapy word effect effect particular therapy word effect effect effect effect effectively describes her effect effect effectively describes her effect effect effectively describes her experience. So instead of assuming you experience. So instead of assuming you experience. So instead of assuming you know what she means when she says know what she means when she says know what she means when she says narcissist say can you help me narcissist say can you help me narcissist say can you help me understand what that means to you? help understand what that means to you? help understand what that means to you? help me understand why that word captures me understand why that word captures me understand why that word captures what you're experiencing from your what you're experiencing from your what you're experiencing from your husband so husband so husband so well. Because most of the time, guys, well. Because most of the time, guys, well. Because most of the time, guys, they don't know the technical they don't know the technical they don't know the technical definition. Narcissism is a technical definition. Narcissism is a technical definition. Narcissism is a technical term. Narcissistic personality disorder term. Narcissistic personality disorder term. Narcissistic personality disorder in the in the in the DSM5 is defined as a mental illness DSM5 is defined as a mental illness DSM5 is defined as a mental illness characterized by pervasive pattern of characterized by pervasive pattern of characterized by pervasive pattern of grandiosity in fantasy or behavior, need grandiosity in fantasy or behavior, need grandiosity in fantasy or behavior, need for admiration, lack of empathy, and the for admiration, lack of empathy, and the for admiration, lack of empathy, and the onset by early adulthood. and and onset by early adulthood. and and onset by early adulthood. and and present in a variety of present in a variety of present in a variety of contexts. But most of the time, people contexts. But most of the time, people contexts. But most of the time, people are using narcissism in an as an are using narcissism in an as an are using narcissism in an as an informal term. They're just trying to informal term. They're just trying to informal term. They're just trying to capture there's there's this is like a capture there's there's this is like a capture there's there's this is like a super villain level super villain level super villain level selfishness. That's what they're trying selfishness. That's what they're trying selfishness. That's what they're trying to say. This guy's super selfish like in to say. This guy's super selfish like in to say. This guy's super selfish like in a way that like feels a way that like feels a way that like feels abnormal. it it's like this entrenched abnormal. it it's like this entrenched abnormal. it it's like this entrenched pattern of self-centeredness that's more

pattern of self-centeredness that's more pattern of self-centeredness that's more extreme than than than the normal extreme than than than the normal extreme than than than the normal selfishness I see in other selfishness I see in other selfishness I see in other people. So again, they're they're people. So again, they're they're people. So again, they're they're they're grabbing at words. So you're they're grabbing at words. So you're they're grabbing at words. So you're loving them and caring for them and loving them and caring for them and loving them and caring for them and shephering them well by letting them shephering them well by letting them shephering them well by letting them talk it out. Why why why is that talk it out. Why why why is that talk it out. Why why why is that effective for you as a description? effective for you as a description? effective for you as a description? Okay, here here's here's step two. Okay, here here's here's step two. Okay, here here's here's step two. acknowledge where her explanation acknowledge where her explanation acknowledge where her explanation touches on an aspect of experience touches on an aspect of experience touches on an aspect of experience that's acknowledged in scripture. And that's acknowledged in scripture. And that's acknowledged in scripture. And you can also show how scripture you can also show how scripture you can also show how scripture acknowledges that there's complexity acknowledges that there's complexity acknowledges that there's complexity there. There there's mystery there. So I there. There there's mystery there. So I there. There there's mystery there. So I think we can say to this this woman, think we can say to this this woman, think we can say to this this woman, scripture acknowledges the deep pain scripture acknowledges the deep pain scripture acknowledges the deep pain that we experience when someone else that we experience when someone else that we experience when someone else acts towards us with extreme acts towards us with extreme acts towards us with extreme self-interest. with with absolutely no empathy towards with with absolutely no empathy towards us, with absolutely no consideration of us, with absolutely no consideration of us, with absolutely no consideration of anything but themselves when they act on anything but themselves when they act on anything but themselves when they act on that way. Scripture affirms that does that way. Scripture affirms that does that way. Scripture affirms that does hurt. And there's a reason it hurts.

hurt. And there's a reason it hurts. hurt. And there's a reason it hurts. Actually, the entire design of what God Actually, the entire design of what God Actually, the entire design of what God made relationships to do is reversed in made relationships to do is reversed in made relationships to do is reversed in that situation. instead of at cost to that situation. instead of at cost to that situation. instead of at cost to self building you up. Uh someone she's self building you up. Uh someone she's self building you up. Uh someone she's calling a narcissist is at cost to her calling a narcissist is at cost to her calling a narcissist is at cost to her building himself up. building himself up. building himself up. Right? So you can say to her, "This is Right? So you can say to her, "This is Right? So you can say to her, "This is not God's heart. God didn't design human not God's heart. God didn't design human not God's heart. God didn't design human relationships for this." You can take it relationships for this." You can take it relationships for this." You can take it to lots of different places. Psalm to lots of different places. Psalm to lots of different places. Psalm 57, Psalm 33. You could you could go to 57, Psalm 33. You could you could go to 57, Psalm 33. You could you could go to lots of places where David's in this lots of places where David's in this lots of places where David's in this place where he has been treated just place where he has been treated just place where he has been treated just terribly and the effect that it has on terribly and the effect that it has on terribly and the effect that it has on him again. So you're you're trying to him again. So you're you're trying to him again. So you're you're trying to resonate. Yeah. The Bible acknowledges resonate. Yeah. The Bible acknowledges resonate. Yeah. The Bible acknowledges what you're saying. Step what you're saying. Step what you're saying. Step three, don't shame her for using therapy three, don't shame her for using therapy three, don't shame her for using therapy words, but but nevertheless try to offer words, but but nevertheless try to offer words, but but nevertheless try to offer better descriptions that relate their better descriptions that relate their better descriptions that relate their her experience to God. That's the key her experience to God. That's the key her experience to God. That's the key there. Remember, if our chief design there. Remember, if our chief design there. Remember, if our chief design purpose is to know God, then where we purpose is to know God, then where we purpose is to know God, then where we want to be wise in how we're helping want to be wise in how we're helping want to be wise in how we're helping people think through their troubles is people think through their troubles is people think through their troubles is we don't want to just use words that we don't want to just use words that we don't want to just use words that don't eventually reference them back up don't eventually reference them back up don't eventually reference them back up to, and this is who God is to you amidst to, and this is who God is to you amidst to, and this is who God is to you amidst all this all this all this stuff. So, you could say to her stuff. So, you could say to her stuff. So, you could say to her something like this, I think I something like this, I think I something like this, I think I understand why you keep using the term understand why you keep using the term understand why you keep using the term narcissism to describe your husband.

narcissism to describe your husband. narcissism to describe your husband. That's not necessarily a wrong word, but That's not necessarily a wrong word, but That's not necessarily a wrong word, but I want to be sure that we're filling in I want to be sure that we're filling in I want to be sure that we're filling in the meaning of that word with the deeper the meaning of that word with the deeper the meaning of that word with the deeper meaning that I think scripture gives us. meaning that I think scripture gives us. meaning that I think scripture gives us. Can I can I take you to a couple Can I can I take you to a couple Can I can I take you to a couple passages? And maybe you take her to passages? And maybe you take her to passages? And maybe you take her to James James James 3:14 and you say you you talk about 3:14 and you say you you talk about 3:14 and you say you you talk about selfishness is a characteristic of the selfishness is a characteristic of the selfishness is a characteristic of the sinful flesh that's so sinful that sinful flesh that's so sinful that sinful flesh that's so sinful that actually James in that chapter calls it actually James in that chapter calls it actually James in that chapter calls it demonic, earthly, demonic, earthly, demonic, earthly, unspiritual, demonic. It it it it smells unspiritual, demonic. It it it it smells unspiritual, demonic. It it it it smells of hell. No wonder you feel that way. of hell. No wonder you feel that way. of hell. No wonder you feel that way. and or and and and and our selfishness and or and and and and our selfishness and or and and and and our selfishness also in Romans 1. It it can take on also in Romans 1. It it can take on also in Romans 1. It it can take on patterns that become so entrenched in a patterns that become so entrenched in a patterns that become so entrenched in a person's life, it seems like it shrinks person's life, it seems like it shrinks person's life, it seems like it shrinks their very capacity to be anything other their very capacity to be anything other their very capacity to be anything other than that. The Bible describes this with than that. The Bible describes this with than that. The Bible describes this with the metaphor of God handing over the metaphor of God handing over the metaphor of God handing over someone. Handing over three times, someone. Handing over three times, someone. Handing over three times, handing handing handing over. So again, you're trying to give over. So again, you're trying to give over. So again, you're trying to give biblical categories that acknowledge biblical categories that acknowledge biblical categories that acknowledge what she's trying to convey, but is what she's trying to convey, but is what she's trying to convey, but is showing more clearly from scripture how showing more clearly from scripture how showing more clearly from scripture how that connects to God. Then step four, specifically God. Then step four, specifically explain the many ways scripture provides explain the many ways scripture provides explain the many ways scripture provides the ultimate meaning behind this the ultimate meaning behind this the ultimate meaning behind this experience, behind this suffering. So experience, behind this suffering. So experience, behind this suffering. So you can say to her, "Hey, I want to take

you can say to her, "Hey, I want to take you can say to her, "Hey, I want to take you to Romans chapter 12 because I want you to Romans chapter 12 because I want you to Romans chapter 12 because I want to help you know how do you respond to to help you know how do you respond to to help you know how do you respond to someone who is so self-centered to where someone who is so self-centered to where someone who is so self-centered to where it's constantly harming you and and and it's constantly harming you and and and it's constantly harming you and and and and in Romans 12, we're told to love and in Romans 12, we're told to love and in Romans 12, we're told to love them." But you got to understand there's them." But you got to understand there's them." But you got to understand there's a lot of weight and complexity behind a lot of weight and complexity behind a lot of weight and complexity behind that command of love because it says, that command of love because it says, that command of love because it says, "Let love be genuine. Hate what is evil "Let love be genuine. Hate what is evil "Let love be genuine. Hate what is evil and hold fast to what's good. and hold fast to what's good. and hold fast to what's good. So, here's something that I just want us So, here's something that I just want us So, here's something that I just want us to really talk through. Did you know to really talk through. Did you know to really talk through. Did you know that loving your husband means refusing that loving your husband means refusing that loving your husband means refusing to be manipulated by him because you're supposed to hate him because you're supposed to hate what's what's what's evil. You're supposed to allow God to evil. You're supposed to allow God to evil. You're supposed to allow God to set the agenda for what you pursue and set the agenda for what you pursue and set the agenda for what you pursue and the purposes of your heart. And what a the purposes of your heart. And what a the purposes of your heart. And what a manipulative person is trying to do is manipulative person is trying to do is manipulative person is trying to do is he's trying to bend your will to his. he's trying to bend your will to his. he's trying to bend your will to his. And that's not that's not seeking God And that's not that's not seeking God And that's not that's not seeking God first. That's that's being more driven first. That's that's being more driven first. That's that's being more driven by fear of upsetting him or the by fear of upsetting him or the by fear of upsetting him or the inconvenience of when he get mad. And inconvenience of when he get mad. And inconvenience of when he get mad. And so, you know, that's not easy. I'm not so, you know, that's not easy. I'm not so, you know, that's not easy. I'm not saying it's necessarily easy in the in saying it's necessarily easy in the in saying it's necessarily easy in the in the practice, but that's what you're the practice, but that's what you're the practice, but that's what you're saying to her. You you ought not be saying to her. You you ought not be saying to her. You you ought not be manipulated. And yet, here's the other manipulated. And yet, here's the other manipulated. And yet, here's the other complex side of what it means to love.

complex side of what it means to love. complex side of what it means to love. To hold fast to what's good means you To hold fast to what's good means you To hold fast to what's good means you pray for the heart of Jesus towards your pray for the heart of Jesus towards your pray for the heart of Jesus towards your husband and you do good to him whenever husband and you do good to him whenever husband and you do good to him whenever you can do good to him in ways that are you can do good to him in ways that are you can do good to him in ways that are God's calling to you, not his calling to God's calling to you, not his calling to God's calling to you, not his calling to you. So guys, I hope what you're seeing you. So guys, I hope what you're seeing you. So guys, I hope what you're seeing is me trying to model. you're getting is me trying to model. you're getting is me trying to model. you're getting past just I've just seen too many past just I've just seen too many past just I've just seen too many situations where somebody just says situations where somebody just says situations where somebody just says narcissist and then in their mind it's narcissist and then in their mind it's narcissist and then in their mind it's like it's a package that's all tied up like it's a package that's all tied up like it's a package that's all tied up and ready to ship and that's kind of the and ready to ship and that's kind of the and ready to ship and that's kind of the end of it. He's a narcissist. There's end of it. He's a narcissist. There's end of it. He's a narcissist. There's nothing more he can do and I just got to nothing more he can do and I just got to nothing more he can do and I just got to adjust around him. But the Bible's view adjust around him. But the Bible's view adjust around him. But the Bible's view of things is more complex than that. And of things is more complex than that. And of things is more complex than that. And it gives us it equips us with something it gives us it equips us with something it gives us it equips us with something deeper because we see it in relation to deeper because we see it in relation to deeper because we see it in relation to God's activity even in that hard God's activity even in that hard God's activity even in that hard relationship and in our hearts. So that's the main thing that I hearts. So that's the main thing that I would like to say to you in terms of would like to say to you in terms of would like to say to you in terms of just I hope I left you with something just I hope I left you with something just I hope I left you with something practical to just model for you guys.

practical to just model for you guys. practical to just model for you guys. This is absolutely complex. But I but This is absolutely complex. But I but This is absolutely complex. But I but again my my point was to construct a again my my point was to construct a again my my point was to construct a theological case for a little mini theological case for a little mini theological case for a little mini methodology. Guys, that was only a methodology. Guys, that was only a methodology. Guys, that was only a methodology. It wasn't the methodology. methodology. It wasn't the methodology. methodology. It wasn't the methodology. You might think, "Yeah, that makes no You might think, "Yeah, that makes no You might think, "Yeah, that makes no sense. I'll never use that." That's sense. I'll never use that." That's sense. I'll never use that." That's fine. Just trash it. I'm fine with that. fine. Just trash it. I'm fine with that. fine. Just trash it. I'm fine with that. But my point to you is that's at least a But my point to you is that's at least a But my point to you is that's at least a model for you that you can do for model for you that you can do for model for you that you can do for yourself in trying to think biblically yourself in trying to think biblically yourself in trying to think biblically about complex issues like mental health. about complex issues like mental health. about complex issues like mental health. Guys, thank you so much for your Guys, thank you so much for your Guys, thank you so much for your attention. I am I'm really grateful for attention. I am I'm really grateful for attention. I am I'm really grateful for it.