Should We Prioritize Jesus's Teachings Over Paul's? Keller, Piper, Carson, DeYoung

when I uh uh I did not come up out of an when I uh uh I did not come up out of an evangelical background. I came up out of evangelical background. I came up out of evangelical background. I came up out of a a mainline I went to a mainline church a a mainline I went to a mainline church a a mainline I went to a mainline church growing up, became a Christian in growing up, became a Christian in growing up, became a Christian in college. Uh found myself often listening college. Uh found myself often listening college. Uh found myself often listening to a different a different kind of to a different a different kind of to a different a different kind of Christianity. We're talking about the Christianity. We're talking about the Christianity. We're talking about the late 60s, early 70s that was presented late 60s, early 70s that was presented late 60s, early 70s that was presented by I guess what you might call the by I guess what you might call the by I guess what you might call the mainline churches. And generally what I mainline churches. And generally what I mainline churches. And generally what I heard there was uh perhaps I would say heard there was uh perhaps I would say heard there was uh perhaps I would say was the the I I think uh John and Don was the the I I think uh John and Don was the the I I think uh John and Don will be able to correct me if I'm using will be able to correct me if I'm using will be able to correct me if I'm using it improperly, but the the the idea of it improperly, but the the the idea of it improperly, but the the the idea of Erns Quiserman that um and many other Erns Quiserman that um and many other Erns Quiserman that um and many other what you might call more liberal what you might call more liberal what you might call more liberal biblical scholars were that uh Jesus biblical scholars were that uh Jesus biblical scholars were that uh Jesus preached the kingdom. That's the heart preached the kingdom. That's the heart preached the kingdom. That's the heart of what Christianity is all about. of what Christianity is all about. of what Christianity is all about. uh it has a social justice aspect uh it uh it has a social justice aspect uh it uh it has a social justice aspect uh it has an esqueological aspect has an esqueological aspect has an esqueological aspect uh that's really what Christianity is uh that's really what Christianity is uh that's really what Christianity is about about this future uh kingdom it's about about this future uh kingdom it's about about this future uh kingdom it's broken in now uh we need to be in a broken in now uh we need to be in a broken in now uh we need to be in a sense being a witness in some ways to sense being a witness in some ways to sense being a witness in some ways to that inbreaking kingdom by the way in that inbreaking kingdom by the way in that inbreaking kingdom by the way in which we live our lives it usually meant which we live our lives it usually meant which we live our lives it usually meant calling for social justice uh and the calling for social justice uh and the calling for social justice uh and the more traditional idea more traditional more traditional idea more traditional more traditional idea more traditional evangelical ministry of calling people evangelical ministry of calling people evangelical ministry of calling people to be born again, calling people to be to be born again, calling people to be to be born again, calling people to be converted was individualistic. It was converted was individualistic. It was converted was individualistic. It was narrowly focused on uh various Paul and narrowly focused on uh various Paul and narrowly focused on uh various Paul and epistles.

epistles. epistles. And uh And uh And uh that was that's that's the Christianity that was that's that's the Christianity that was that's that's the Christianity I rejected when I I read um uh into when I rejected when I I read um uh into when I rejected when I I read um uh into when I went to Gordon Conwell and I I went to Gordon Conwell and I I went to Gordon Conwell and I considered myself a reformed considered myself a reformed considered myself a reformed evangelical. Today I hear more and more evangelical. Today I hear more and more evangelical. Today I hear more and more people inside the evangelical world people inside the evangelical world people inside the evangelical world saying the same sorts of things. saying the same sorts of things. saying the same sorts of things. uh t pitting the uh the preaching of uh t pitting the uh the preaching of uh t pitting the uh the preaching of Jesus in the synoptics and preaching of Jesus in the synoptics and preaching of Jesus in the synoptics and preaching of the kingdom against preaching a a gospel the kingdom against preaching a a gospel the kingdom against preaching a a gospel of what was be called individualistic of what was be called individualistic of what was be called individualistic eternal life. Uh simply getting your eternal life. Uh simply getting your eternal life. Uh simply getting your born again certificate knowing you're born again certificate knowing you're born again certificate knowing you're forgiven and living out your life and forgiven and living out your life and forgiven and living out your life and going to heaven. And those things are going to heaven. And those things are going to heaven. And those things are pitted against each other inside the pitted against each other inside the pitted against each other inside the evangelical world. And I'm pretty sure evangelical world. And I'm pretty sure evangelical world. And I'm pretty sure that many of the people who use the same that many of the people who use the same that many of the people who use the same terminology probably don't mean quite terminology probably don't mean quite terminology probably don't mean quite the same thing. Um I think they are the same thing. Um I think they are the same thing. Um I think they are probably more orthodox in that when you probably more orthodox in that when you probably more orthodox in that when you ask them well what do you mean by ask them well what do you mean by ask them well what do you mean by eternal life in the kingdom and so on eternal life in the kingdom and so on eternal life in the kingdom and so on and yet it's um I would say it's and yet it's um I would say it's and yet it's um I would say it's actually a bit troubling to me that actually a bit troubling to me that actually a bit troubling to me that things that probably should be things that probably should be things that probably should be integrated are being pitted against each integrated are being pitted against each integrated are being pitted against each other. Now that's the reason why when I other. Now that's the reason why when I other. Now that's the reason why when I saw the topic that I thought yes we saw the topic that I thought yes we saw the topic that I thought yes we definitely have to address that.

>> I know you've got an example or two. Go >> I know you've got an example or two. Go ahead. Well, I I figure I should let ahead. Well, I I figure I should let ahead. Well, I I figure I should let John Biper speak first, but uh you know, we were we were just talking a you know, we were we were just talking a little bit about this and I was reading little bit about this and I was reading little bit about this and I was reading a a book on the plane down here and uh a a a book on the plane down here and uh a a a book on the plane down here and uh a good book in many ways that we could good book in many ways that we could good book in many ways that we could affirm much of it. In the in the last affirm much of it. In the in the last affirm much of it. In the in the last chapter, the author argues and chapter, the author argues and chapter, the author argues and admittedly he says it's a bit of a admittedly he says it's a bit of a admittedly he says it's a bit of a provocative provocative provocative uh thesis, but he argues for a cannon uh thesis, but he argues for a cannon uh thesis, but he argues for a cannon within a cannon and that the the gospels within a cannon and that the the gospels within a cannon and that the the gospels really ought to be that cannon through really ought to be that cannon through really ought to be that cannon through which we make sense of the rest of the which we make sense of the rest of the which we make sense of the rest of the Bible. And I just read a few sentences Bible. And I just read a few sentences Bible. And I just read a few sentences because I think this will be because I think this will be because I think this will be illustrative for what we're trying to illustrative for what we're trying to illustrative for what we're trying to address at least in part. So he says uh address at least in part. So he says uh address at least in part. So he says uh on the one hand the gospels in reality on the one hand the gospels in reality on the one hand the gospels in reality the life and teachings of Jesus have the life and teachings of Jesus have the life and teachings of Jesus have often played only a secondary and often played only a secondary and often played only a secondary and subsidiary role in our church subsidiary role in our church subsidiary role in our church experience. The real bread and butter of experience. The real bread and butter of experience. The real bread and butter of our Christian experience teaching and our Christian experience teaching and our Christian experience teaching and worldview formation has come from the worldview formation has come from the worldview formation has come from the epistles and orthodox doctrine. A focus epistles and orthodox doctrine. A focus epistles and orthodox doctrine. A focus on the death of Jesus and to a lesser on the death of Jesus and to a lesser on the death of Jesus and to a lesser degree his resurrection has been the degree his resurrection has been the degree his resurrection has been the extent to which the Jesus traditions extent to which the Jesus traditions extent to which the Jesus traditions have impacted our thought. But even this have impacted our thought. But even this have impacted our thought. But even this is primarily mediated through the is primarily mediated through the is primarily mediated through the epistles, summations and applications.

epistles, summations and applications. epistles, summations and applications. The actual life and teachings of Jesus The actual life and teachings of Jesus The actual life and teachings of Jesus have not been the center. I'll just read have not been the center. I'll just read have not been the center. I'll just read the the contrast several pages later. He the the contrast several pages later. He the the contrast several pages later. He says, "If we start with the epistles, we says, "If we start with the epistles, we says, "If we start with the epistles, we may get a somewhat skewed picture of the may get a somewhat skewed picture of the may get a somewhat skewed picture of the main point of the new covenant. This main point of the new covenant. This main point of the new covenant. This does not mean that our perspective will does not mean that our perspective will does not mean that our perspective will necessarily be erroneous or necessarily be erroneous or necessarily be erroneous or incompatible, but rather slightly incompatible, but rather slightly incompatible, but rather slightly unbalanced. For example, as is typical unbalanced. For example, as is typical unbalanced. For example, as is typical in much of the Protestant tradition, the in much of the Protestant tradition, the in much of the Protestant tradition, the esqueological kingdom of God is not a esqueological kingdom of God is not a esqueological kingdom of God is not a major theme when the gospel is major theme when the gospel is major theme when the gospel is discussed, but rather justification by discussed, but rather justification by discussed, but rather justification by faith or something similar. But when we faith or something similar. But when we faith or something similar. But when we begin with Jesus' own teaching and the begin with Jesus' own teaching and the begin with Jesus' own teaching and the focus of the gospels, we can rightly focus of the gospels, we can rightly focus of the gospels, we can rightly read and understand the rest of the New read and understand the rest of the New read and understand the rest of the New Testament as an outworking and Testament as an outworking and Testament as an outworking and application of this same perspective. So application of this same perspective. So application of this same perspective. So I think that would be from a a book that I think that would be from a a book that I think that would be from a a book that probably appreciate most of it, but I probably appreciate most of it, but I probably appreciate most of it, but I got to the end of that chapter and got to the end of that chapter and got to the end of that chapter and thought, hm, that seems relevant to what thought, hm, that seems relevant to what thought, hm, that seems relevant to what we're trying to discuss on this panel. we're trying to discuss on this panel. we're trying to discuss on this panel. And it has to do with just what you And it has to do with just what you And it has to do with just what you said. It are we in error in evangelical said. It are we in error in evangelical said. It are we in error in evangelical circles or have we gone in some circles or have we gone in some circles or have we gone in some imbalanced direction that in fact we're imbalanced direction that in fact we're imbalanced direction that in fact we're reading everything through Paul? Uh, and reading everything through Paul? Uh, and reading everything through Paul? Uh, and what what are what are the problems with what what are what are the problems with what what are what are the problems with even the way I just stated that question even the way I just stated that question even the way I just stated that question that somehow we have Paul and then you that somehow we have Paul and then you that somehow we have Paul and then you have Jesus [snorts] and we know who's have Jesus [snorts] and we know who's have Jesus [snorts] and we know who's going to win in that one.

The the problem I have with that is that The the problem I have with that is that start start start feels so irrelevant. feels so irrelevant. feels so irrelevant. Start. If you start with Jesus, if you Start. If you start with Jesus, if you Start. If you start with Jesus, if you start with Paul, I don't care where a start with Paul, I don't care where a start with Paul, I don't care where a person starts. person starts. person starts. I want to know where they end. In other I want to know where they end. In other I want to know where they end. In other words, I want to know after you've read words, I want to know after you've read words, I want to know after you've read both of them, what do you believe about both of them, what do you believe about both of them, what do you believe about them? What do you understand? Who cares them? What do you understand? Who cares them? What do you understand? Who cares whether you read Luke first or Romans whether you read Luke first or Romans whether you read Luke first or Romans first or Colossians first or you know first or Colossians first or you know first or Colossians first or you know that that temporal hermeneutical that that temporal hermeneutical that that temporal hermeneutical trick there is odd to me. my brain trick there is odd to me. my brain trick there is odd to me. my brain doesn't work that way. And and I think doesn't work that way. And and I think doesn't work that way. And and I think this is pretty profound. In other words, this is pretty profound. In other words, this is pretty profound. In other words, we ought to read the gospels and to read we ought to read the gospels and to read we ought to read the gospels and to read the epistles and to understand them both the epistles and to understand them both the epistles and to understand them both for what they are. And it doesn't matter for what they are. And it doesn't matter for what they are. And it doesn't matter which one we start with. We should which one we start with. We should which one we start with. We should understand Jesus message. Does it understand Jesus message. Does it understand Jesus message. Does it cohhere wonderfully with Paul's? Does cohhere wonderfully with Paul's? Does cohhere wonderfully with Paul's? Does Paul's [music] cohhere wonderfully with Paul's [music] cohhere wonderfully with Paul's [music] cohhere wonderfully with Jesus? does each bring to bear on us and Jesus? does each bring to bear on us and Jesus? does each bring to bear on us and what we need to know for life and what we need to know for life and what we need to know for life and godliness something helpful. And so I'm godliness something helpful. And so I'm godliness something helpful. And so I'm I'm not helped by that paragraph of I'm not helped by that paragraph of I'm not helped by that paragraph of saying we would do well if we started saying we would do well if we started saying we would do well if we started with Jesus because then we would read with Jesus because then we would read with Jesus because then we would read Paul in the best light. Uh, my guess is Paul in the best light. Uh, my guess is Paul in the best light. Uh, my guess is the Galatians read Galatians first

and and then then they might write this, and and then then they might write this, John. John. John. >> Luke, I do. I look at you like I'm on >> Luke, I do. I look at you like I'm on >> Luke, I do. I look at you like I'm on the attack here. Kevin is the bad guy. Your microphone is poised over there. Your microphone is poised over there. >> Oh, I'm sure the Corinthians read >> Oh, I'm sure the Corinthians read >> Oh, I'm sure the Corinthians read Corinthian first. The Corinthians first. Corinthian first. The Corinthians first. Corinthian first. The Corinthians first. No, I I think when they say uh start No, I I think when they say uh start No, I I think when they say uh start with the gospels, I think what it's with the gospels, I think what it's with the gospels, I think what it's saying is that traditional saying is that traditional saying is that traditional evangelicalism has tended to read the evangelicalism has tended to read the evangelicalism has tended to read the gospels through Paul. That Paul's more gospels through Paul. That Paul's more gospels through Paul. That Paul's more fundamental. Paul gives us the basic fundamental. Paul gives us the basic fundamental. Paul gives us the basic categories and uh Paul colors our our categories and uh Paul colors our our categories and uh Paul colors our our reading of of the gospels and we're he reading of of the gospels and we're he reading of of the gospels and we're he wants to reverse that. He wants the wants to reverse that. He wants the wants to reverse that. He wants the gospels to give us the categories uh and gospels to give us the categories uh and gospels to give us the categories uh and and see Paul as the outworking of that. and see Paul as the outworking of that. and see Paul as the outworking of that. And my problem too is I I really the And my problem too is I I really the And my problem too is I I really the charge we have to refute or we have to charge we have to refute or we have to charge we have to refute or we have to at least answer the charge that at least answer the charge that at least answer the charge that traditional evangelicalism reads the traditional evangelicalism reads the traditional evangelicalism reads the gospels in light of Paul. I just don't gospels in light of Paul. I just don't gospels in light of Paul. I just don't think you two wrongs don't make a right. think you two wrongs don't make a right. think you two wrongs don't make a right. If we if we are using Paul and in a If we if we are using Paul and in a If we if we are using Paul and in a sense muting the distinctives of the sense muting the distinctives of the sense muting the distinctives of the gospels, then we shouldn't turn we gospels, then we shouldn't turn we gospels, then we shouldn't turn we shouldn't turn the tables. And it seems shouldn't turn the tables. And it seems shouldn't turn the tables. And it seems to me that they should be mutually to me that they should be mutually to me that they should be mutually informing. I've always believed like I informing. I've always believed like I informing. I've always believed like I think all of us that uh the when you're think all of us that uh the when you're think all of us that uh the when you're interpreting the scripture, the clear interpreting the scripture, the clear interpreting the scripture, the clear parts parts parts shouldn't should inform the the murkier shouldn't should inform the the murkier shouldn't should inform the the murkier parts. If you get to some places in the parts. If you get to some places in the parts. If you get to some places in the Bible that are kind of murky, you don't Bible that are kind of murky, you don't Bible that are kind of murky, you don't choose a your own particular

choose a your own particular choose a your own particular interpretation of that and then be so interpretation of that and then be so interpretation of that and then be so sure you're right that you go back and sure you're right that you go back and sure you're right that you go back and reread the rest of the Bible in light of reread the rest of the Bible in light of reread the rest of the Bible in light of it. You take the clear parts and you use it. You take the clear parts and you use it. You take the clear parts and you use those to understand the murky parts. But those to understand the murky parts. But those to understand the murky parts. But Paul's not murky. The gospels aren't Paul's not murky. The gospels aren't Paul's not murky. The gospels aren't murky. They should be mutually murky. They should be mutually murky. They should be mutually informing. And I really don't like the informing. And I really don't like the informing. And I really don't like the idea. Again, I think that's what they idea. Again, I think that's what they idea. Again, I think that's what they mean by starting. I don't like the idea mean by starting. I don't like the idea mean by starting. I don't like the idea of of trying to give one part of the of of trying to give one part of the of of trying to give one part of the Bible pride of place. Bible pride of place. Bible pride of place. >> Partly hidden behind the question is the >> Partly hidden behind the question is the >> Partly hidden behind the question is the fact that fact that fact that the Bible is simultaneously the product the Bible is simultaneously the product the Bible is simultaneously the product of God's blessed inspiration. It is his of God's blessed inspiration. It is his of God's blessed inspiration. It is his word. Yet he has he has given his word word. Yet he has he has given his word word. Yet he has he has given his word through human beings in particular through human beings in particular through human beings in particular situations with particular kinds of situations with particular kinds of situations with particular kinds of literature at particular times and literature at particular times and literature at particular times and places places places and and and so forth and the way the and and and so forth and the way the and and and so forth and the way the whole thing has been cast is focused whole thing has been cast is focused whole thing has been cast is focused purely on that historical plane. Now purely on that historical plane. Now purely on that historical plane. Now there are some questions to be asked there are some questions to be asked there are some questions to be asked about how Paul's vocabulary is different about how Paul's vocabulary is different about how Paul's vocabulary is different from Luke's or whatever. We'll come to from Luke's or whatever. We'll come to from Luke's or whatever. We'll come to some of those things. But behind all of some of those things. But behind all of some of those things. But behind all of it is the reality that God gave it all.

it is the reality that God gave it all. it is the reality that God gave it all. And it's not as if one part of it is And it's not as if one part of it is And it's not as if one part of it is more the word of God than another part more the word of God than another part more the word of God than another part of it. And and so you want to phrase the of it. And and so you want to phrase the of it. And and so you want to phrase the questions in such a way that all of it questions in such a way that all of it questions in such a way that all of it is the word of God. There's one mind is the word of God. There's one mind is the word of God. There's one mind behind it. And you want to find the one behind it. And you want to find the one behind it. And you want to find the one mind behind it to integrate it all mind behind it to integrate it all mind behind it to integrate it all rather than trying to um to to break it rather than trying to um to to break it rather than trying to um to to break it apart on the historical planes and and apart on the historical planes and and apart on the historical planes and and and give one part some sort of a and give one part some sort of a and give one part some sort of a privileged status. privileged status. privileged status. A and before we work hard, if we do, to A and before we work hard, if we do, to A and before we work hard, if we do, to rescue the Gospels, rescue the Gospels, rescue the Gospels, uh because we evangelicals emphasize uh because we evangelicals emphasize uh because we evangelicals emphasize Paul, Paul, Paul, who's to say, Mr. So and so that when who's to say, Mr. So and so that when who's to say, Mr. So and so that when you read a sequence of documents, you read a sequence of documents, you read a sequence of documents, some some some founding events and others interpretive founding events and others interpretive founding events and others interpretive consummative events, who's to say that consummative events, who's to say that consummative events, who's to say that the second would and shouldn't be the the second would and shouldn't be the the second would and shouldn't be the one through which you read the first one through which you read the first one through which you read the first one? I mean, if I wrote a book, that's one? I mean, if I wrote a book, that's one? I mean, if I wrote a book, that's the way I'd want you to do it. Read the the way I'd want you to do it. Read the the way I'd want you to do it. Read the whole book. Oh, got it. Now, let's go whole book. Oh, got it. Now, let's go whole book. Oh, got it. Now, let's go back and get it. That's the way I'd want back and get it. That's the way I'd want back and get it. That's the way I'd want people to do it. So, I would need people to do it. So, I would need people to do it. So, I would need somebody to defend for me why you somebody to defend for me why you somebody to defend for me why you shouldn't do it that way. Not I'm I'm shouldn't do it that way. Not I'm I'm shouldn't do it that way. Not I'm I'm going to retreat from that and say, going to retreat from that and say, going to retreat from that and say, "Read Luke for Luke. Let Luke have his "Read Luke for Luke. Let Luke have his "Read Luke for Luke. Let Luke have his say. Read Romans for Romans. Let him say. Read Romans for Romans. Let him say. Read Romans for Romans. Let him have his say." But if God did inspire have his say." But if God did inspire have his say." But if God did inspire all these 27 books, he did order in his all these 27 books, he did order in his all these 27 books, he did order in his providence that they come into being and providence that they come into being and providence that they come into being and be ordered that way. And he did say, "I

be ordered that way. And he did say, "I be ordered that way. And he did say, "I will bring to your remembrance all will bring to your remembrance all will bring to your remembrance all things and put in place an aposttoate things and put in place an aposttoate things and put in place an aposttoate who would then instruct his church how who would then instruct his church how who would then instruct his church how to interpret his life." Why wouldn't you to interpret his life." Why wouldn't you to interpret his life." Why wouldn't you let Paul have a pretty strong say in let Paul have a pretty strong say in let Paul have a pretty strong say in what you do with the way we read the what you do with the way we read the what you do with the way we read the gospels? I I would I would ask that gospels? I I would I would ask that gospels? I I would I would ask that person that question. person that question. person that question. >> And and I think getting what both of you >> And and I think getting what both of you >> And and I think getting what both of you said, you know, when Jesus promises that said, you know, when Jesus promises that said, you know, when Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit will come and will lead the Holy Spirit will come and will lead the Holy Spirit will come and will lead you into all truth, of course, we have you into all truth, of course, we have you into all truth, of course, we have to read that contextually. It's not all to read that contextually. It's not all to read that contextually. It's not all truth about who you're going to marry truth about who you're going to marry truth about who you're going to marry and what where you're going to live and and what where you're going to live and and what where you're going to live and what major. It's all the truth about what major. It's all the truth about what major. It's all the truth about Jesus Christ and his glory and bringing Jesus Christ and his glory and bringing Jesus Christ and his glory and bringing these things to mind so that the these things to mind so that the these things to mind so that the inspired apostolic record after the inspired apostolic record after the inspired apostolic record after the events of Jesus life and death and events of Jesus life and death and events of Jesus life and death and resurrection resurrection resurrection should have a bearing on how we should have a bearing on how we should have a bearing on how we understand them because that's the work understand them because that's the work understand them because that's the work of the spirit no less. And I think you of the spirit no less. And I think you of the spirit no less. And I think you were hitting on it, Don, that tied up in were hitting on it, Don, that tied up in were hitting on it, Don, that tied up in some of this is really a view of some of this is really a view of some of this is really a view of inspiration on a much more popular inspiration on a much more popular inspiration on a much more popular level. You see this with the frequent level. You see this with the frequent level. You see this with the frequent attempts to be redletter Christians. I attempts to be redletter Christians. I attempts to be redletter Christians. I mean, that that just comes up and mean, that that just comes up and mean, that that just comes up and recycles every five or 10 years. I'm not recycles every five or 10 years. I'm not recycles every five or 10 years. I'm not that old and I've seen that thing come that old and I've seen that thing come that old and I've seen that thing come or go two or three times that now we're or go two or three times that now we're or go two or three times that now we're the we're the we're the people that the we're the we're the people that the we're the we're the people that really get it. Okay, you there's Paul really get it. Okay, you there's Paul really get it. Okay, you there's Paul and we Okay, but we got Jesus words. And and we Okay, but we got Jesus words. And and we Okay, but we got Jesus words. And how often do you hear just in in media how often do you hear just in in media how often do you hear just in in media outlets, well Jesus never said anything outlets, well Jesus never said anything outlets, well Jesus never said anything about that was just Paul later and that about that was just Paul later and that about that was just Paul later and that totally betrays what we ought to believe totally betrays what we ought to believe totally betrays what we ought to believe about the unity of the scriptures that about the unity of the scriptures that about the unity of the scriptures that all scripture is breathed out by God.

all scripture is breathed out by God. all scripture is breathed out by God. >> I I'd like to to point out just to >> I I'd like to to point out just to >> I I'd like to to point out just to reassure everyone here that that John reassure everyone here that that John reassure everyone here that that John Piper actually believes there are 66 Piper actually believes there are 66 Piper actually believes there are 66 inspired books, not just 27. just in in inspired books, not just 27. just in in inspired books, not just 27. just in in in case there was any doubt in anybody's in case there was any doubt in anybody's in case there was any doubt in anybody's mind uh to follow up here. uh to follow up here. >> Sure. And then we're going to the next >> Sure. And then we're going to the next >> Sure. And then we're going to the next question. question. question. >> Not to that. That stands. That's true. >> Not to that. That stands. That's true. >> Not to that. That stands. That's true. >> He's going to ignore that. I uh um why would we expect why would we expect that the Lord Jesus in coming into the that the Lord Jesus in coming into the that the Lord Jesus in coming into the world world world to die? I came to die. He said in more to die? I came to die. He said in more to die? I came to die. He said in more ways than one. Why would we assume that ways than one. Why would we assume that ways than one. Why would we assume that his preparatory his preparatory his preparatory talking before the performance of talking before the performance of talking before the performance of salvation salvation salvation would somehow be anywhere near as would somehow be anywhere near as would somehow be anywhere near as normative about the nature of the normative about the nature of the normative about the nature of the salvation as what follows? In other salvation as what follows? In other salvation as what follows? In other words, it seems to me that it's words, it seems to me that it's words, it seems to me that it's inherently to be expected that before inherently to be expected that before inherently to be expected that before salvation is performed at Good Friday salvation is performed at Good Friday salvation is performed at Good Friday and Easter, one would speak of salvation and Easter, one would speak of salvation and Easter, one would speak of salvation a bit differently than after it had been a bit differently than after it had been a bit differently than after it had been performed. And now all could be seen in performed. And now all could be seen in performed. And now all could be seen in the light of the performance of why he the light of the performance of why he the light of the performance of why he came and therefore the post discussion came and therefore the post discussion came and therefore the post discussion of it authoritatively after the

of it authoritatively after the of it authoritatively after the performance would be different. That performance would be different. That performance would be different. That would just be what I would expect. And would just be what I would expect. And would just be what I would expect. And so I don't again get it why one would so I don't again get it why one would so I don't again get it why one would elevate the pre-performance elevate the pre-performance elevate the pre-performance articulation of salvation to the articulation of salvation to the articulation of salvation to the post-performance articulation of post-performance articulation of post-performance articulation of salvation. salvation. salvation. >> Let me push just a wee bit. Let me push >> Let me push just a wee bit. Let me push >> Let me push just a wee bit. Let me push a wee bit on the difference in a wee bit on the difference in a wee bit on the difference in vocabulary just the same. Um, how do we vocabulary just the same. Um, how do we vocabulary just the same. Um, how do we respond to those who say that Paul respond to those who say that Paul respond to those who say that Paul preaches the gospel? Gospel is a big preaches the gospel? Gospel is a big preaches the gospel? Gospel is a big word with him. One could mention another word with him. One could mention another word with him. One could mention another or list a whole list of words that are or list a whole list of words that are or list a whole list of words that are pretty common in Paul that are not pretty common in Paul that are not pretty common in Paul that are not nearly as common in um the four nearly as common in um the four nearly as common in um the four canonical gospels. And meanwhile, there canonical gospels. And meanwhile, there canonical gospels. And meanwhile, there is an emphasis on kingdom especially in is an emphasis on kingdom especially in is an emphasis on kingdom especially in the synoptic gospels that is not as the synoptic gospels that is not as the synoptic gospels that is not as prominent in Paul. So the question that prominent in Paul. So the question that prominent in Paul. So the question that they ask is how do we respond to those they ask is how do we respond to those they ask is how do we respond to those who say Paul preaches gospel while Jesus who say Paul preaches gospel while Jesus who say Paul preaches gospel while Jesus preaches the kingdom. In other words, preaches the kingdom. In other words, preaches the kingdom. In other words, deal now with texts, not just with deal now with texts, not just with deal now with texts, not just with assumptions. assumptions. assumptions. >> Well, I I have a question to you. I know >> Well, I I have a question to you. I know >> Well, I I have a question to you. I know that's not fair. You just asked the that's not fair. You just asked the that's not fair. You just asked the question, right? But you're a uh Don is question, right? But you're a uh Don is question, right? But you're a uh Don is one of the great John scholars, Johannan one of the great John scholars, Johannan one of the great John scholars, Johannan scholars in the world. Uh I think it's a scholars in the world. Uh I think it's a scholars in the world. Uh I think it's a little interesting that when they say in little interesting that when they say in little interesting that when they say in the Gospels, you have the kingdom, the Gospels, you have the kingdom, the Gospels, you have the kingdom, kingdom, kingdom, kingdom. In Paul, the kingdom, kingdom, kingdom. In Paul, the kingdom, kingdom, kingdom. In Paul, the word kingdom doesn't come up very much, word kingdom doesn't come up very much, word kingdom doesn't come up very much, but they're forgetting one of the but they're forgetting one of the but they're forgetting one of the gospels, which is the gospel of John, gospels, which is the gospel of John, gospels, which is the gospel of John, which hardly uses the word kingdom.

which hardly uses the word kingdom. which hardly uses the word kingdom. And um it in fact, I really wonder why And um it in fact, I really wonder why And um it in fact, I really wonder why why that that approach shows such why that that approach shows such why that that approach shows such disrespect to the gospel of John. It disrespect to the gospel of John. It disrespect to the gospel of John. It gives you the impression that Jesus in gives you the impression that Jesus in gives you the impression that Jesus in his own ministry u would never have his own ministry u would never have his own ministry u would never have preached the gospel as it were, would preached the gospel as it were, would preached the gospel as it were, would never have given people the good news never have given people the good news never have given people the good news without talking about the kingdom. In without talking about the kingdom. In without talking about the kingdom. In the Gospel of John, he only uses the the Gospel of John, he only uses the the Gospel of John, he only uses the kingdom in the term kingdom in his own kingdom in the term kingdom in his own kingdom in the term kingdom in his own language where twice. One is with language where twice. One is with language where twice. One is with Nicodemus, but he al Okay. Well, you're Nicodemus, but he al Okay. Well, you're Nicodemus, but he al Okay. Well, you're the John scholar. the John scholar. the John scholar. >> Uh-W twice with Nicodemus and John 18. >> Uh-W twice with Nicodemus and John 18. >> Uh-W twice with Nicodemus and John 18. >> When he's when he's talking with Pilate. >> When he's when he's talking with Pilate. >> When he's when he's talking with Pilate. >> Where's the other one? >> Where's the other one? >> Where's the other one? >> No, twice with with Nicodemus and and >> No, twice with with Nicodemus and and >> No, twice with with Nicodemus and and once with uh Pilate in John 18. once with uh Pilate in John 18. once with uh Pilate in John 18. >> I knew that. [laughter] >> I knew that. [laughter] >> I knew that. [laughter] >> But this is why they pay me the big >> But this is why they pay me the big >> But this is why they pay me the big bucks. bucks. bucks. I was considering that twice. But I was considering that twice. But I was considering that twice. But anyway, uh and they all with one accord anyway, uh and they all with one accord anyway, uh and they all with one accord began to make excuse that seems to give the lie to the that seems to give the lie to the assumption. I may this for the for this assumption. I may this for the for this assumption. I may this for the for this is the first time I put it in my mind is the first time I put it in my mind is the first time I put it in my mind this way. The assumption seems to be this way. The assumption seems to be this way. The assumption seems to be that using the term kingdom is the that using the term kingdom is the that using the term kingdom is the superior way to preach the Christian superior way to preach the Christian superior way to preach the Christian message and that if you don't use the message and that if you don't use the message and that if you don't use the term uh because Jesus used the term term uh because Jesus used the term term uh because Jesus used the term other ways are somehow deficient. And other ways are somehow deficient. And other ways are somehow deficient. And yet you have one of the four gospels in yet you have one of the four gospels in yet you have one of the four gospels in which Jesus doesn't ordinarily use uh which Jesus doesn't ordinarily use uh which Jesus doesn't ordinarily use uh the term kingdom. It seems almost like

the term kingdom. It seems almost like the term kingdom. It seems almost like eternal life eternal life eternal life uh I test my hypothesis with this John uh I test my hypothesis with this John uh I test my hypothesis with this John scholar. Eternal life seems to almost be scholar. Eternal life seems to almost be scholar. Eternal life seems to almost be in the place of the kingdom. he seems to in the place of the kingdom. he seems to in the place of the kingdom. he seems to talk about the eternal life uh so much talk about the eternal life uh so much talk about the eternal life uh so much more there. So that again seems to me to more there. So that again seems to me to more there. So that again seems to me to get rid of this idea that somehow the get rid of this idea that somehow the get rid of this idea that somehow the synoptic synoptic synoptic uh preaching of Jesus is the is the is uh preaching of Jesus is the is the is uh preaching of Jesus is the is the is the peak and everything else is is sort the peak and everything else is is sort the peak and everything else is is sort of downhill from there. What do you of downhill from there. What do you of downhill from there. What do you think Mr. Historically, you're entirely think Mr. Historically, you're entirely think Mr. Historically, you're entirely right. And that is to say, most of those right. And that is to say, most of those right. And that is to say, most of those who insist on this on the primacy of who insist on this on the primacy of who insist on this on the primacy of kingdom language for the historical kingdom language for the historical kingdom language for the historical Jesus end up either implicitly or Jesus end up either implicitly or Jesus end up either implicitly or explicitly depreciating the value of explicitly depreciating the value of explicitly depreciating the value of John's gospel for understanding the John's gospel for understanding the John's gospel for understanding the historical Jesus. That it it all has to historical Jesus. That it it all has to historical Jesus. That it it all has to be dismissed as as later theological be dismissed as as later theological be dismissed as as later theological reflection rather than something that is reflection rather than something that is reflection rather than something that is a faithful witness to the historical a faithful witness to the historical a faithful witness to the historical Jesus. And and so you end up not only Jesus. And and so you end up not only Jesus. And and so you end up not only depreciating Paul, you end up depreciating Paul, you end up depreciating Paul, you end up depreciating John. Then if you push a depreciating John. Then if you push a depreciating John. Then if you push a little farther because you've got the little farther because you've got the little farther because you've got the synoptic synoptic synoptic dependence, you go for Mark and dependence, you go for Mark and dependence, you go for Mark and priority. And at the end of the day, the priority. And at the end of the day, the priority. And at the end of the day, the supreme record for getting at the supreme record for getting at the supreme record for getting at the historical Jesus is Mark. And and thus historical Jesus is Mark. And and thus historical Jesus is Mark. And and thus you're you're not only having a cannon you're you're not only having a cannon you're you're not only having a cannon within a cannon. If you're not careful, within a cannon. If you're not careful, within a cannon. If you're not careful, you're having a canon within a canon you're having a canon within a canon you're having a canon within a canon within a canon within a cannon. And um within a canon within a cannon. And um within a canon within a cannon. And um and that kind of reductionism at the end and that kind of reductionism at the end and that kind of reductionism at the end of the day surely has to make anybody of the day surely has to make anybody of the day surely has to make anybody nervous who thinks that God has given us nervous who thinks that God has given us nervous who thinks that God has given us 66 books.

He's got his Bible open. Say something, He's got his Bible open. Say something, Kevin. Well, I I I'm I'm thinking of Kevin. Well, I I I'm I'm thinking of Kevin. Well, I I I'm I'm thinking of Mark because Mark begins verse one, the Mark because Mark begins verse one, the Mark because Mark begins verse one, the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the son of God. There there's the title the son of God. There there's the title the son of God. There there's the title page that this is going to be a book page that this is going to be a book page that this is going to be a book about the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, about the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, about the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, pretty good indication that we're going pretty good indication that we're going pretty good indication that we're going to learn something about the gospel to learn something about the gospel to learn something about the gospel here. And the very first thing out of here. And the very first thing out of here. And the very first thing out of Jesus mouth in Mark's gospel, the time Jesus mouth in Mark's gospel, the time Jesus mouth in Mark's gospel, the time is fulfilled. The kingdom of God is at is fulfilled. The kingdom of God is at is fulfilled. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. And whether you you understand those two And whether you you understand those two And whether you you understand those two clauses to be clauses to be clauses to be equivalent or at least they're equivalent or at least they're equivalent or at least they're explanatory one of another leaning into explanatory one of another leaning into explanatory one of another leaning into each other. The kingdom of God is at each other. The kingdom of God is at each other. The kingdom of God is at hand. This this heavenly reign and rule hand. This this heavenly reign and rule hand. This this heavenly reign and rule of God is breaking in in the person of of God is breaking in in the person of of God is breaking in in the person of Christ and and then what? Repent and Christ and and then what? Repent and Christ and and then what? Repent and believe. Now, it it doesn't seem a believe. Now, it it doesn't seem a believe. Now, it it doesn't seem a stretch to me that you start to sound stretch to me that you start to sound stretch to me that you start to sound very Pauline very quickly that we're very Pauline very quickly that we're very Pauline very quickly that we're talking about repentance. We're talking talking about repentance. We're talking talking about repentance. We're talking about faith. That's also uh John's about faith. That's also uh John's about faith. That's also uh John's language more than any other with faith.

language more than any other with faith. language more than any other with faith. And then by Mark chapter 2, Jesus is And then by Mark chapter 2, Jesus is And then by Mark chapter 2, Jesus is healing the paralytic. It says, "Son, healing the paralytic. It says, "Son, healing the paralytic. It says, "Son, your sins are forgiven." So it seems to your sins are forgiven." So it seems to your sins are forgiven." So it seems to be uppermost in his mind that the gospel be uppermost in his mind that the gospel be uppermost in his mind that the gospel has at its center the forgiveness of has at its center the forgiveness of has at its center the forgiveness of sins. And then at the end when he calls sins. And then at the end when he calls sins. And then at the end when he calls Levi and what we saw this morning Levi and what we saw this morning Levi and what we saw this morning parallel passage it's not those who are parallel passage it's not those who are parallel passage it's not those who are well who have need of a physician but well who have need of a physician but well who have need of a physician but those who are sick. I came not to call those who are sick. I came not to call those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous but sinners. And you can the righteous but sinners. And you can the righteous but sinners. And you can go through Mark's gospel which is go through Mark's gospel which is go through Mark's gospel which is supposed to be the quintessential supposed to be the quintessential supposed to be the quintessential example of this kind of uh kingdom example of this kind of uh kingdom example of this kind of uh kingdom language to show that part and parcel of language to show that part and parcel of language to show that part and parcel of the kingdom is calling people not to do the kingdom is calling people not to do the kingdom is calling people not to do though there are lots of commands Jesus though there are lots of commands Jesus though there are lots of commands Jesus gives but the verbs related to the gives but the verbs related to the gives but the verbs related to the kingdom are verbs of inheritance kingdom are verbs of inheritance kingdom are verbs of inheritance reception entering in receiving. You're reception entering in receiving. You're reception entering in receiving. You're receiving this gift through faith and receiving this gift through faith and receiving this gift through faith and repentance. And that to me sounds not repentance. And that to me sounds not repentance. And that to me sounds not only what the gospel is in Mark, but only what the gospel is in Mark, but only what the gospel is in Mark, but what we preach when we come to Romans what we preach when we come to Romans what we preach when we come to Romans and Galatians and Philippians.

and Galatians and Philippians. and Galatians and Philippians. >> Now I know that that uh you guys did >> Now I know that that uh you guys did >> Now I know that that uh you guys did some preparation for this and thought I some preparation for this and thought I some preparation for this and thought I you looked up some stuff on kingdom for you looked up some stuff on kingdom for you looked up some stuff on kingdom for example in in in Paul that I thought was example in in in Paul that I thought was example in in in Paul that I thought was really helpful and I know that you did really helpful and I know that you did really helpful and I know that you did some reading in a book. Would you like some reading in a book. Would you like some reading in a book. Would you like to talk about those things and in to talk about those things and in to talk about those things and in relevance to this question? H how do we relevance to this question? H how do we relevance to this question? H how do we think about uh this charge that at the think about uh this charge that at the think about uh this charge that at the end of the day the vocabulary end of the day the vocabulary end of the day the vocabulary differences are are just uh so notable differences are are just uh so notable differences are are just uh so notable that you have to think in different that you have to think in different that you have to think in different categories? categories? categories? I mean Kevin has introduced it. Go go go I mean Kevin has introduced it. Go go go I mean Kevin has introduced it. Go go go further. further. further. >> Right. If you simply judge by proportion >> Right. If you simply judge by proportion >> Right. If you simply judge by proportion what you have 90 some gospels 13 14 in what you have 90 some gospels 13 14 in what you have 90 some gospels 13 14 in the epistles references to kingdom not the epistles references to kingdom not the epistles references to kingdom not insignificant references. Um kingdom is insignificant references. Um kingdom is insignificant references. Um kingdom is righteous and joy and peace. The Romans, righteous and joy and peace. The Romans, righteous and joy and peace. The Romans, 1 Corinthians, the kingdom is not talk 1 Corinthians, the kingdom is not talk 1 Corinthians, the kingdom is not talk but power. He will not inherit the but power. He will not inherit the but power. He will not inherit the kingdom. He must uh he must reign until kingdom. He must uh he must reign until kingdom. He must uh he must reign until he puts all of his enemies. Then he he puts all of his enemies. Then he he puts all of his enemies. Then he hands the kingdom over to the father and hands the kingdom over to the father and hands the kingdom over to the father and many more have you know seven or eight many more have you know seven or eight many more have you know seven or eight more. Um so kingdom more. Um so kingdom more. Um so kingdom language not missing. Here's my take on language not missing. Here's my take on language not missing. Here's my take on the reason for the disproportion the reason for the disproportion the reason for the disproportion >> and you tell me what you think. Um >> and you tell me what you think. Um >> and you tell me what you think. Um Jesus Jesus Jesus intentionally did not preach Jesus as intentionally did not preach Jesus as intentionally did not preach Jesus as explicitly as Paul preaches Jesus.

explicitly as Paul preaches Jesus. explicitly as Paul preaches Jesus. >> In fact, he hid Jesus. Don't tell >> In fact, he hid Jesus. Don't tell >> In fact, he hid Jesus. Don't tell anybody. And I think you in your talk anybody. And I think you in your talk anybody. And I think you in your talk alluded to why. Namely, they didn't have alluded to why. Namely, they didn't have alluded to why. Namely, they didn't have a clue what real Messiah was and real a clue what real Messiah was and real a clue what real Messiah was and real kingdom was. So Jesus was gradually kingdom was. So Jesus was gradually kingdom was. So Jesus was gradually reinterpreting Messiah, reinterpreting reinterpreting Messiah, reinterpreting reinterpreting Messiah, reinterpreting kingdom, and he winds up stretch out on kingdom, and he winds up stretch out on kingdom, and he winds up stretch out on a cross as king. Are you the king? You a cross as king. Are you the king? You a cross as king. Are you the king? You say that I am. And now I'm reaching my say that I am. And now I'm reaching my say that I am. And now I'm reaching my goal. Dead. So Jesus is gradually goal. Dead. So Jesus is gradually goal. Dead. So Jesus is gradually deconstructing kingdom, transforming deconstructing kingdom, transforming deconstructing kingdom, transforming kingdom, lowering kingdom. The the kingdom, lowering kingdom. The the kingdom, lowering kingdom. The the rulers of this earth lorded over those. rulers of this earth lorded over those. rulers of this earth lorded over those. But I am among you as one who serves. But I am among you as one who serves. But I am among you as one who serves. Think kingdom. So he's reinterpreting Think kingdom. So he's reinterpreting Think kingdom. So he's reinterpreting kingdom and and concealing himself as it kingdom and and concealing himself as it kingdom and and concealing himself as it were temporarily until he does his work. were temporarily until he does his work. were temporarily until he does his work. And when Paul comes along, he preaches And when Paul comes along, he preaches And when Paul comes along, he preaches Christ. We preach Christ as Lord. So in Christ. We preach Christ as Lord. So in Christ. We preach Christ as Lord. So in my understanding, Paul perfectly my understanding, Paul perfectly my understanding, Paul perfectly understood what Jesus was doing in understood what Jesus was doing in understood what Jesus was doing in reinterpreting kingdom, making himself reinterpreting kingdom, making himself reinterpreting kingdom, making himself ready to be the crucified, truly ready to be the crucified, truly ready to be the crucified, truly understood Messiah, king. And now I understood Messiah, king. And now I understood Messiah, king. And now I don't preach that kingdom anymore as don't preach that kingdom anymore as don't preach that kingdom anymore as often. I preach Christ the king and then often. I preach Christ the king and then often. I preach Christ the king and then kingdom is brought in subordinately. So kingdom is brought in subordinately. So kingdom is brought in subordinately. So Jesus foregrounds it and reinterprets Jesus foregrounds it and reinterprets Jesus foregrounds it and reinterprets it. Paul backgrounds it and puts the

it. Paul backgrounds it and puts the it. Paul backgrounds it and puts the king Jesus in the foreground which is king Jesus in the foreground which is king Jesus in the foreground which is just what I think Jesus would want him just what I think Jesus would want him just what I think Jesus would want him to do and what makes sense that he to do and what makes sense that he to do and what makes sense that he should do. That's hugely helpful. You've should do. That's hugely helpful. You've should do. That's hugely helpful. You've got some really good stuff there from got some really good stuff there from got some really good stuff there from >> Yes. I don't have anything as hugely >> Yes. I don't have anything as hugely >> Yes. I don't have anything as hugely helpful as that. I don't think honestly helpful as that. I don't think honestly helpful as that. I don't think honestly that very helpful to me too. Well, the that very helpful to me too. Well, the that very helpful to me too. Well, the reason I actually brought up the uh the reason I actually brought up the uh the reason I actually brought up the uh the Gospel of John is I think it's Gospel of John is I think it's Gospel of John is I think it's intriguing to see ways in which uh if intriguing to see ways in which uh if intriguing to see ways in which uh if you go back and forth between John and you go back and forth between John and you go back and forth between John and the synoptics, it's you don't want to the synoptics, it's you don't want to the synoptics, it's you don't want to say they're exactly synonymous, but uh say they're exactly synonymous, but uh say they're exactly synonymous, but uh the terms inherit eternal life, uh enter the terms inherit eternal life, uh enter the terms inherit eternal life, uh enter the kingdom of God, be saved, to turn or the kingdom of God, be saved, to turn or the kingdom of God, be saved, to turn or be converted u are very they're used in be converted u are very they're used in be converted u are very they're used in very similar ways. So one one example is very similar ways. So one one example is very similar ways. So one one example is in Mark 10 and of course Matthew 19 Luke in Mark 10 and of course Matthew 19 Luke in Mark 10 and of course Matthew 19 Luke the rich young ruler asked Jesus what the rich young ruler asked Jesus what the rich young ruler asked Jesus what must he do to inherit eternal life. And must he do to inherit eternal life. And must he do to inherit eternal life. And when he goes away um discouraged Jesus when he goes away um discouraged Jesus when he goes away um discouraged Jesus doesn't say uh oh it's really hard for doesn't say uh oh it's really hard for doesn't say uh oh it's really hard for the rich to get eternal life. He could the rich to get eternal life. He could the rich to get eternal life. He could have but instead he says it's hard for have but instead he says it's hard for have but instead he says it's hard for those with wealth to enter the kingdom those with wealth to enter the kingdom those with wealth to enter the kingdom of God. Almost looks like they're the of God. Almost looks like they're the of God. Almost looks like they're the same thing. Um, another interesting spot same thing. Um, another interesting spot same thing. Um, another interesting spot would be if you take a look at Matthew would be if you take a look at Matthew would be if you take a look at Matthew 18:3, 18:3, 18:3, it says, "Truly, truly, I say to you," it says, "Truly, truly, I say to you," it says, "Truly, truly, I say to you," Jesus says, "Unless you turn," which is Jesus says, "Unless you turn," which is Jesus says, "Unless you turn," which is that word actually, some translations that word actually, some translations that word actually, some translations say, "Unless you're converted, unless say, "Unless you're converted, unless say, "Unless you're converted, unless you turn and become like children, you turn and become like children, you turn and become like children, you'll never enter the kingdom of of you'll never enter the kingdom of of you'll never enter the kingdom of of heaven." Uh, John 3:3 says, "Truly, heaven." Uh, John 3:3 says, "Truly, heaven." Uh, John 3:3 says, "Truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born truly I say to you, unless one is born truly I say to you, unless one is born again, uh verse 5, he cannot enter the

again, uh verse 5, he cannot enter the again, uh verse 5, he cannot enter the kingdom of of God." kingdom of of God." kingdom of of God." and uh the the parallels. I mean, the and uh the the parallels. I mean, the and uh the the parallels. I mean, the thing I'd love to hear from my my thing I'd love to hear from my my thing I'd love to hear from my my brothers here is uh I don't believe brothers here is uh I don't believe brothers here is uh I don't believe they're complete synonyms. I don't think they're complete synonyms. I don't think they're complete synonyms. I don't think God would have the different terms God would have the different terms God would have the different terms unless each term brought out maybe a unless each term brought out maybe a unless each term brought out maybe a different aspect. different aspect. different aspect. Uh but what brought this all together Uh but what brought this all together Uh but what brought this all together was years ago reading a George Ladology was years ago reading a George Ladology was years ago reading a George Ladology of the New Testament. And George Lad of the New Testament. And George Lad of the New Testament. And George Lad says, "Here's what brings it all says, "Here's what brings it all says, "Here's what brings it all together. Eternal life is future life together. Eternal life is future life together. Eternal life is future life brought into the present now through brought into the present now through brought into the present now through faith in the work of Jesus Christ. So faith in the work of Jesus Christ. So faith in the work of Jesus Christ. So when I believe in Jesus Christ, eternal when I believe in Jesus Christ, eternal when I believe in Jesus Christ, eternal life doesn't mean just simply that now I life doesn't mean just simply that now I life doesn't mean just simply that now I I know that I'll live forever because I know that I'll live forever because I know that I'll live forever because I'm forgiven. Eternal life is a quality I'm forgiven. Eternal life is a quality I'm forgiven. Eternal life is a quality of life from the future that comes in of life from the future that comes in of life from the future that comes in now. Dick Gaffford also was very very now. Dick Gaffford also was very very now. Dick Gaffford also was very very good at talking about that. uh you know good at talking about that. uh you know good at talking about that. uh you know he brings out the fact that paleneseia he brings out the fact that paleneseia he brings out the fact that paleneseia um the the renewal of all things in in um the the renewal of all things in in um the the renewal of all things in in Matthew 19 is also a word that Paul uses Matthew 19 is also a word that Paul uses Matthew 19 is also a word that Paul uses in Titus for what happens in you when he in Titus for what happens in you when he in Titus for what happens in you when he talks about re regeneration he uses a talks about re regeneration he uses a talks about re regeneration he uses a word that means the the the renewal of word that means the the the renewal of word that means the the the renewal of all things at the end of time is also all things at the end of time is also all things at the end of time is also what renews you now when you're born what renews you now when you're born what renews you now when you're born again again again so uh what always helped me enormously so uh what always helped me enormously so uh what always helped me enormously was to say kingdom life is u eternal was to say kingdom life is u eternal was to say kingdom life is u eternal life it's the life of the future come in life it's the life of the future come in life it's the life of the future come in now which I get through faith in Christ.

now which I get through faith in Christ. now which I get through faith in Christ. It's not, you know, it's already but not It's not, you know, it's already but not It's not, you know, it's already but not yet. It's here partially. I'm part I'm yet. It's here partially. I'm part I'm yet. It's here partially. I'm part I'm partly renewed, but it's certainly not partly renewed, but it's certainly not partly renewed, but it's certainly not fully here yet because it's a it's a fully here yet because it's a it's a fully here yet because it's a it's a down payment on my on the future. That down payment on my on the future. That down payment on my on the future. That draws it all together. And it's one of draws it all together. And it's one of draws it all together. And it's one of the reasons why in John uh you don't the reasons why in John uh you don't the reasons why in John uh you don't need to use the word kingdom need to use the word kingdom need to use the word kingdom necessarily. I I believe everything that necessarily. I I believe everything that necessarily. I I believe everything that John Piper just said about why it could John Piper just said about why it could John Piper just said about why it could be that kingdom kingdom termin be that kingdom kingdom termin be that kingdom kingdom termin terminology actually seems to fade a bit terminology actually seems to fade a bit terminology actually seems to fade a bit with Paul. And maybe you could even say with Paul. And maybe you could even say with Paul. And maybe you could even say it in John since John's the last of the it in John since John's the last of the it in John since John's the last of the of the uh gospels to be written. Uh of the uh gospels to be written. Uh of the uh gospels to be written. Uh maybe it's not necessary for to to maybe it's not necessary for to to maybe it's not necessary for to to background Jesus anymore. I think that's background Jesus anymore. I think that's background Jesus anymore. I think that's actually quite helpful. But just the actually quite helpful. But just the actually quite helpful. But just the idea the eternal life is the future life idea the eternal life is the future life idea the eternal life is the future life of the kingdom now has always drawn it of the kingdom now has always drawn it of the kingdom now has always drawn it all together for me and it makes it all together for me and it makes it all together for me and it makes it impossible for me to see why we're impossible for me to see why we're impossible for me to see why we're pitting these against each other. Why we pitting these against each other. Why we pitting these against each other. Why we have to say the kingdom language, the have to say the kingdom language, the have to say the kingdom language, the synoptics has to take precedence over synoptics has to take precedence over synoptics has to take precedence over what Paul says.