God-Given Tools for Fighting Anxiety (with Blair Linne) [The Deep Dish - Ep. 45]

It's not just a matter of getting over, It's not just a matter of getting over, you know, the anxiety because I think you know, the anxiety because I think you know, the anxiety because I think sometimes when we do that, we kind of sometimes when we do that, we kind of sometimes when we do that, we kind of fight anxiety with more anxiety, fight anxiety with more anxiety, fight anxiety with more anxiety, >> right? Um, we get anxious about being >> right? Um, we get anxious about being >> right? Um, we get anxious about being anxious. anxious about being anxious. anxious about being anxious. anxious about being you know but it's like no I'm I am going you know but it's like no I'm I am going you know but it's like no I'm I am going to fight anxiety by clinging to my God to fight anxiety by clinging to my God to fight anxiety by clinging to my God by standing in awe of him by fearing him by standing in awe of him by fearing him by standing in awe of him by fearing him to the point where I remember saying to the point where I remember saying to the point where I remember saying Lord even if my situation never changes Lord even if my situation never changes Lord even if my situation never changes you're with me. Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. We are so excited because today Krueger. We are so excited because today Krueger. We are so excited because today we are joined by a very dear friend, a we are joined by a very dear friend, a we are joined by a very dear friend, a real life friend, uh, Blair Lynn. And real life friend, uh, Blair Lynn. And real life friend, uh, Blair Lynn. And we're going to be tackling a topic that we're going to be tackling a topic that we're going to be tackling a topic that means a lot to all of us. and we're means a lot to all of us. and we're means a lot to all of us. and we're going to be talking about how to fight going to be talking about how to fight going to be talking about how to fight anxiety specifically with all the tools anxiety specifically with all the tools anxiety specifically with all the tools that God has given us.

that God has given us. that God has given us. >> And Blair, I'm so thankful that you took >> And Blair, I'm so thankful that you took >> And Blair, I'm so thankful that you took the time to write your story down the time to write your story down the time to write your story down because I'll be honest, you know, I because I'll be honest, you know, I because I'll be honest, you know, I would never have known this about you. would never have known this about you. would never have known this about you. Like when when when you're around Blair, Like when when when you're around Blair, Like when when when you're around Blair, I mean, you just exude calm and I mean, you just exude calm and I mean, you just exude calm and peacefulness. And so I actually love peacefulness. And so I actually love peacefulness. And so I actually love that you took the time to explain your that you took the time to explain your that you took the time to explain your battle with anxiety. And the book's battle with anxiety. And the book's battle with anxiety. And the book's called Made to Tremble. And the subtitle called Made to Tremble. And the subtitle called Made to Tremble. And the subtitle for that book is how anxiety became the for that book is how anxiety became the for that book is how anxiety became the best thing that ever happened to my best thing that ever happened to my best thing that ever happened to my faith. Um so you know I would love if we faith. Um so you know I would love if we faith. Um so you know I would love if we can just start can you just share a can just start can you just share a can just start can you just share a little bit about how anxiety became a little bit about how anxiety became a little bit about how anxiety became a part of your story. Um that just to just part of your story. Um that just to just part of your story. Um that just to just to start us off um you know did you feel to start us off um you know did you feel to start us off um you know did you feel this all the time growing up? Did it did this all the time growing up? Did it did this all the time growing up? Did it did something happen that really made this a something happen that really made this a something happen that really made this a part of your story or can you give us a part of your story or can you give us a part of your story or can you give us a little bit of that background as we little bit of that background as we little bit of that background as we begin? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and begin? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and begin? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and thanks for having me on. Um, it's funny thanks for having me on. Um, it's funny thanks for having me on. Um, it's funny because I never would have considered because I never would have considered because I never would have considered myself to be an anxious person and just myself to be an anxious person and just myself to be an anxious person and just like you said, Melissa, so many people like you said, Melissa, so many people like you said, Melissa, so many people say, "Your voice is so calming." And you say, "Your voice is so calming." And you say, "Your voice is so calming." And you know, like it's like, know, like it's like, know, like it's like, >> "Yeah, I want to go to sleep to your >> "Yeah, I want to go to sleep to your >> "Yeah, I want to go to sleep to your voice, L. I want to just I want to be voice, L. I want to just I want to be voice, L. I want to just I want to be listening to you read scripture on my listening to you read scripture on my listening to you read scripture on my phone or something. It's so calming."

phone or something. It's so calming." phone or something. It's so calming." >> Yes. So, I'm like, "Uh, well, uh, even >> Yes. So, I'm like, "Uh, well, uh, even >> Yes. So, I'm like, "Uh, well, uh, even some of us who have maybe calm voices, some of us who have maybe calm voices, some of us who have maybe calm voices, we do struggle." And um you know it we do struggle." And um you know it we do struggle." And um you know it really happened for me in 2015 when our really happened for me in 2015 when our really happened for me in 2015 when our family moved to uh Philadelphia to help family moved to uh Philadelphia to help family moved to uh Philadelphia to help plant a church and shortly after we had plant a church and shortly after we had plant a church and shortly after we had this car accident. Um so it just kind of this car accident. Um so it just kind of this car accident. Um so it just kind of out of nowhere I was driving and a deer out of nowhere I was driving and a deer out of nowhere I was driving and a deer came and just totaled our minivan. Um we came and just totaled our minivan. Um we came and just totaled our minivan. Um we were all in the car. We were initially were all in the car. We were initially were all in the car. We were initially so thankful that we were all well, so thankful that we were all well, so thankful that we were all well, physically well. Um, but that spiraled physically well. Um, but that spiraled physically well. Um, but that spiraled me into a season of anxiety and panic me into a season of anxiety and panic me into a season of anxiety and panic attacks specifically. And so every time attacks specifically. And so every time attacks specifically. And so every time I would drive after that point, I would I would drive after that point, I would I would drive after that point, I would start to feel hot. I would start to feel hot. I would start to feel hot. I would hyperventilate. I remember the first hyperventilate. I remember the first hyperventilate. I remember the first time I was driving and I felt like I time I was driving and I felt like I time I was driving and I felt like I couldn't swallow, like I couldn't take couldn't swallow, like I couldn't take couldn't swallow, like I couldn't take in a deep breath. Um, and then all of a in a deep breath. Um, and then all of a in a deep breath. Um, and then all of a sudden my heart is pounding. I mean, sudden my heart is pounding. I mean, sudden my heart is pounding. I mean, pounding so hard I thought it was going pounding so hard I thought it was going pounding so hard I thought it was going to come out of my chest. Um, I thought to come out of my chest. Um, I thought to come out of my chest. Um, I thought this must be a medical emergency. I must this must be a medical emergency. I must this must be a medical emergency. I must be having a heart attack or you know be having a heart attack or you know be having a heart attack or you know something. And so I called my husband.

something. And so I called my husband. something. And so I called my husband. He took me to the ER and they did all He took me to the ER and they did all He took me to the ER and they did all the tests, ran all the tests, EKG, all the tests, ran all the tests, EKG, all the tests, ran all the tests, EKG, all the things. And they're like, "You're the things. And they're like, "You're the things. And they're like, "You're fine. Everything's fine." No one fine. Everything's fine." No one fine. Everything's fine." No one explained to me that I had had a panic explained to me that I had had a panic explained to me that I had had a panic attack. So I didn't know. I didn't have attack. So I didn't know. I didn't have attack. So I didn't know. I didn't have that language. And I just continued to that language. And I just continued to that language. And I just continued to have panic attack after panic attack. have panic attack after panic attack. have panic attack after panic attack. And I reached out to some older women at And I reached out to some older women at And I reached out to some older women at a previous church and I said, "This is a previous church and I said, "This is a previous church and I said, "This is what's going on. I don't know what's what's going on. I don't know what's what's going on. I don't know what's happening." because immediately I'm like happening." because immediately I'm like happening." because immediately I'm like I'm feeling anxious, you know, I'm I'm feeling anxious, you know, I'm I'm feeling anxious, you know, I'm dealing with these physiological dealing with these physiological dealing with these physiological symptoms and for me I thought at that symptoms and for me I thought at that symptoms and for me I thought at that time Christians shouldn't deal with time Christians shouldn't deal with time Christians shouldn't deal with anxiety. So it caused me to really anxiety. So it caused me to really anxiety. So it caused me to really condemn myself. I went through a season condemn myself. I went through a season condemn myself. I went through a season of feeling so much shame and isolation of feeling so much shame and isolation of feeling so much shame and isolation because again I'm the person who should because again I'm the person who should because again I'm the person who should be calm, you know, I mean we were be calm, you know, I mean we were be calm, you know, I mean we were leaders in the church. Shouldn't our leaders in the church. Shouldn't our leaders in the church. Shouldn't our life kind of be all figured out? And it life kind of be all figured out? And it life kind of be all figured out? And it wasn't at all. And these older women wasn't at all. And these older women wasn't at all. And these older women were so helpful initially with just like were so helpful initially with just like were so helpful initially with just like sending resources. I remember one said, sending resources. I remember one said, sending resources. I remember one said, "Oh, I have a thyroid issue. I had to "Oh, I have a thyroid issue. I had to "Oh, I have a thyroid issue. I had to get my thyroid removed and I struggle get my thyroid removed and I struggle get my thyroid removed and I struggle with anxiety, you know, because of that.

with anxiety, you know, because of that. with anxiety, you know, because of that. This is one of the symptoms of that." I This is one of the symptoms of that." I This is one of the symptoms of that." I was like, "What? Why don't we talk about was like, "What? Why don't we talk about was like, "What? Why don't we talk about this more?" And so this this panic this more?" And so this this panic this more?" And so this this panic attacks that kind of started in the car attacks that kind of started in the car attacks that kind of started in the car just started kind of spiraling into just started kind of spiraling into just started kind of spiraling into every area of my life to the point where every area of my life to the point where every area of my life to the point where I had to pull everything off of my I had to pull everything off of my I had to pull everything off of my plate. I remember being in bed for two plate. I remember being in bed for two plate. I remember being in bed for two to three weeks feeling like, okay, what? to three weeks feeling like, okay, what? to three weeks feeling like, okay, what? Like I can't do anything. Um, and really Like I can't do anything. Um, and really Like I can't do anything. Um, and really wrestling with my identity, wrestling wrestling with my identity, wrestling wrestling with my identity, wrestling with my faith. What does this mean for with my faith. What does this mean for with my faith. What does this mean for us as a family? What does this mean for us as a family? What does this mean for us as a family? What does this mean for me as a believer? And it really was me as a believer? And it really was me as a believer? And it really was there that the Lord met me, really met there that the Lord met me, really met there that the Lord met me, really met me and ministered to me. Um, so that's me and ministered to me. Um, so that's me and ministered to me. Um, so that's where my journey started. Looking back, where my journey started. Looking back, where my journey started. Looking back, I do see moments of anxiousness, biting I do see moments of anxiousness, biting I do see moments of anxiousness, biting my nails as a child, you know, like my nails as a child, you know, like my nails as a child, you know, like there were moments I lost my brother there were moments I lost my brother there were moments I lost my brother when I was 13 and I remember running out when I was 13 and I remember running out when I was 13 and I remember running out of class and feeling that sense of panic of class and feeling that sense of panic of class and feeling that sense of panic and angst um and grief. Um I didn't have and angst um and grief. Um I didn't have and angst um and grief. Um I didn't have the language for it. So this yeah the language for it. So this yeah the language for it. So this yeah accident kind of pulled all of that out accident kind of pulled all of that out accident kind of pulled all of that out where I was like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I do where I was like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I do where I was like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, I do struggle with anxiety." what the mind struggle with anxiety." what the mind struggle with anxiety." what the mind stores and how the body reacts. Uh it's stores and how the body reacts. Uh it's stores and how the body reacts. Uh it's just it's amazing. Um well, you you just it's amazing. Um well, you you just it's amazing. Um well, you you talked a little bit about when it first talked a little bit about when it first talked a little bit about when it first started, especially in the car, like started, especially in the car, like started, especially in the car, like that you were you had some real doubts that you were you had some real doubts that you were you had some real doubts and some even shame maybe around it, and some even shame maybe around it, and some even shame maybe around it, like I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian like I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian like I'm a Christian. I'm a Christian leader. You know, I shouldn't be having leader. You know, I shouldn't be having leader. You know, I shouldn't be having this. Were there any other emotions bes this. Were there any other emotions bes this. Were there any other emotions bes I mean obviously besides the anxiety and I mean obviously besides the anxiety and I mean obviously besides the anxiety and and the kind of initial shame around it and the kind of initial shame around it and the kind of initial shame around it were there any other emotions that those were there any other emotions that those were there any other emotions that those that that the panic attacks brought on?

that that the panic attacks brought on? that that the panic attacks brought on? Um yeah I I remember just grief also Um yeah I I remember just grief also Um yeah I I remember just grief also because my our whole life was changing. because my our whole life was changing. because my our whole life was changing. Um, a couple years in, you know, this Um, a couple years in, you know, this Um, a couple years in, you know, this journey, my husband decided to pull back journey, my husband decided to pull back journey, my husband decided to pull back from being on staff, uh, at this church from being on staff, uh, at this church from being on staff, uh, at this church that he helped start in part because of that he helped start in part because of that he helped start in part because of my anxiety and the effect it was having my anxiety and the effect it was having my anxiety and the effect it was having on the family, which was, I think, the on the family, which was, I think, the on the family, which was, I think, the right thing for him to do to care for right thing for him to do to care for right thing for him to do to care for our family. But for me, that spiraled me our family. But for me, that spiraled me our family. But for me, that spiraled me even further. We were supposed to be even further. We were supposed to be even further. We were supposed to be here the rest of our lives. This was our here the rest of our lives. This was our here the rest of our lives. This was our plan, you know, and so now everything's plan, you know, and so now everything's plan, you know, and so now everything's changing. Um, so that was really hard. changing. Um, so that was really hard. changing. Um, so that was really hard. Um, trying to think what else. I Um, trying to think what else. I Um, trying to think what else. I remember feeling so much I would I was remember feeling so much I would I was remember feeling so much I would I was reading some books by Christians on the reading some books by Christians on the reading some books by Christians on the topic and that made me feel worse at topic and that made me feel worse at topic and that made me feel worse at times because they were saying things times because they were saying things times because they were saying things like you know what's between your ears like you know what's between your ears like you know what's between your ears like basically this kind of self-help like basically this kind of self-help like basically this kind of self-help even though these were like Christians even though these were like Christians even though these were like Christians it was like you have what you need it was like you have what you need it was like you have what you need between your ears you know to conquer between your ears you know to conquer between your ears you know to conquer this or basically go jump out of a plane this or basically go jump out of a plane this or basically go jump out of a plane you know like conquer your fears face you know like conquer your fears face you know like conquer your fears face your fears and I'm thinking I am in bed your fears and I'm thinking I am in bed your fears and I'm thinking I am in bed I cannot do anything I can barely really I cannot do anything I can barely really I cannot do anything I can barely really make dinner for my family. Um, and so make dinner for my family. Um, and so make dinner for my family. Um, and so that was that was just really hard. Um, that was that was just really hard. Um, that was that was just really hard. Um, to feel alone and isolated. Um, yeah, to feel alone and isolated. Um, yeah, to feel alone and isolated. Um, yeah, was really hard. That's I think what was really hard. That's I think what was really hard. That's I think what what I hear from your story too is you what I hear from your story too is you what I hear from your story too is you had this initial incident had this initial incident had this initial incident that then triggered a a cycle, you know.

that then triggered a a cycle, you know. that then triggered a a cycle, you know. Um, I mean, because that would be I Um, I mean, because that would be I Um, I mean, because that would be I think we can all understand, oh, wow. think we can all understand, oh, wow. think we can all understand, oh, wow. you know, you're just driving along and you know, you're just driving along and you know, you're just driving along and this deer hit your car and that that, this deer hit your car and that that, this deer hit your car and that that, you know, we've all had instances where you know, we've all had instances where you know, we've all had instances where an experience then produced anxiety the an experience then produced anxiety the an experience then produced anxiety the next time, whether it's like you had a next time, whether it's like you had a next time, whether it's like you had a bad flight and then you're like, I do bad flight and then you're like, I do bad flight and then you're like, I do not want to get on that plane again. But not want to get on that plane again. But not want to get on that plane again. But what I think is interesting about your what I think is interesting about your what I think is interesting about your story is how it went into all these story is how it went into all these story is how it went into all these different areas of life. you know, it different areas of life. you know, it different areas of life. you know, it wasn't just then driving, you know, it wasn't just then driving, you know, it wasn't just then driving, you know, it kind of awoke this situ, you know, this kind of awoke this situ, you know, this kind of awoke this situ, you know, this experience of anxiety in all these other experience of anxiety in all these other experience of anxiety in all these other areas. And so this leads me to a areas. And so this leads me to a areas. And so this leads me to a question like when we think about question like when we think about question like when we think about anxiety and I think this is something anxiety and I think this is something anxiety and I think this is something that people wrestle with, you know, and that people wrestle with, you know, and that people wrestle with, you know, and sometimes we can give really overly easy sometimes we can give really overly easy sometimes we can give really overly easy answers because we we categorize it in answers because we we categorize it in answers because we we categorize it in one way or the other. So if you think one way or the other. So if you think one way or the other. So if you think about anxiety, would you you know some about anxiety, would you you know some about anxiety, would you you know some people think it's a spiritual situation, people think it's a spiritual situation, people think it's a spiritual situation, some people think it's physical, some some people think it's physical, some some people think it's physical, some people think it's psychological.

people think it's psychological. people think it's psychological. So what would you say to that kind of So what would you say to that kind of So what would you say to that kind of question of what is this? Because it's question of what is this? Because it's question of what is this? Because it's interesting when someone's saying it's interesting when someone's saying it's interesting when someone's saying it's between your brains. I'm like, well, is between your brains. I'm like, well, is between your brains. I'm like, well, is it spiritually between my brain? Is it it spiritually between my brain? Is it it spiritually between my brain? Is it physically in my brain? Is it physically in my brain? Is it physically in my brain? Is it psychologically in my brain? You know, psychologically in my brain? You know, psychologically in my brain? You know, how how have you come what have you come how how have you come what have you come how how have you come what have you come to learn about anxiety? And how would to learn about anxiety? And how would to learn about anxiety? And how would you answer that question? Maybe you answer that question? Maybe you answer that question? Maybe differently than you would have before differently than you would have before differently than you would have before this experience. I know. I mean, I've this experience. I know. I mean, I've this experience. I know. I mean, I've just lived with so many women now who just lived with so many women now who just lived with so many women now who different even hormonal seasons of life different even hormonal seasons of life different even hormonal seasons of life have produced panic attacks. Like one of have produced panic attacks. Like one of have produced panic attacks. Like one of my friends had the same experience you my friends had the same experience you my friends had the same experience you did, but it was brought on by per did, but it was brought on by per did, but it was brought on by per menopause and she was asleep. She woke menopause and she was asleep. She woke menopause and she was asleep. She woke up feeling like something was on her up feeling like something was on her up feeling like something was on her chest. chest. chest. Goes to the hospital, goes to the ER, is Goes to the hospital, goes to the ER, is Goes to the hospital, goes to the ER, is like, "I'm dying." And then they're like, "I'm dying." And then they're like, "I'm dying." And then they're like, "You're having a panic attack." M like, "You're having a panic attack." M like, "You're having a panic attack." M >> and she's like I was asleep, you know, >> and she's like I was asleep, you know, >> and she's like I was asleep, you know, and and and and so I think there's just and and and and so I think there's just and and and and so I think there's just it's I'm so glad you talk about it it's I'm so glad you talk about it it's I'm so glad you talk about it because I think these things happen and because I think these things happen and because I think these things happen and people don't know how do I categorize people don't know how do I categorize people don't know how do I categorize this? So when you think about those this? So when you think about those this? So when you think about those physical, spiritual, psychological, physical, spiritual, psychological, physical, spiritual, psychological, where does this fit?

where does this fit? where does this fit? >> Yeah, I think it's all of the above and >> Yeah, I think it's all of the above and >> Yeah, I think it's all of the above and I think it depends upon the story. So um I think it depends upon the story. So um I think it depends upon the story. So um what there are different ways to define what there are different ways to define what there are different ways to define anxiety. One way that we can define anxiety. One way that we can define anxiety. One way that we can define anxiety is that anxiety is the body anxiety is that anxiety is the body anxiety is that anxiety is the body speaking. I talk about natural fear in speaking. I talk about natural fear in speaking. I talk about natural fear in the book which actually is a term I got the book which actually is a term I got the book which actually is a term I got from a Puritan John Flavl. He talks from a Puritan John Flavl. He talks from a Puritan John Flavl. He talks about natural fear, sinful fear and about natural fear, sinful fear and about natural fear, sinful fear and religious fear. Um I think that category religious fear. Um I think that category religious fear. Um I think that category is super helpful for us. Um natural fear is super helpful for us. Um natural fear is super helpful for us. Um natural fear it this is the body speaking. It's the it this is the body speaking. It's the it this is the body speaking. It's the trouble of mind from uh impending trouble of mind from uh impending trouble of mind from uh impending danger. This is the fight or flight. danger. This is the fight or flight. danger. This is the fight or flight. It's not always sinful, but it is the It's not always sinful, but it is the It's not always sinful, but it is the result of what happened any uh Genesis result of what happened any uh Genesis result of what happened any uh Genesis 3, right? We know it. It it comes from 3, right? We know it. It it comes from 3, right? We know it. It it comes from Genesis 3:10 or Genesis 3:7 when they're Genesis 3:10 or Genesis 3:7 when they're Genesis 3:10 or Genesis 3:7 when they're hiding in the garden, right? I I I knew hiding in the garden, right? I I I knew hiding in the garden, right? I I I knew I was afraid, right? I was naked and so I was afraid, right? I was naked and so I was afraid, right? I was naked and so I hid. Uh that's where all fear comes I hid. Uh that's where all fear comes I hid. Uh that's where all fear comes from. But it's not always sinful. And so from. But it's not always sinful. And so from. But it's not always sinful. And so these are the physiological symptoms these are the physiological symptoms these are the physiological symptoms that can happen. Like you mentioned, that can happen. Like you mentioned, that can happen. Like you mentioned, perimeopause or menopause or uh a car perimeopause or menopause or uh a car perimeopause or menopause or uh a car accident, right? Um, we go through these accident, right? Um, we go through these accident, right? Um, we go through these things in life and our body responds as things in life and our body responds as things in life and our body responds as a way to say alert, alert, like there's a way to say alert, alert, like there's a way to say alert, alert, like there's danger here. And I think that's why danger here. And I think that's why danger here. And I think that's why every time I got behind the the uh the every time I got behind the the uh the every time I got behind the the uh the steering wheel or a vehicle, I sat in steering wheel or a vehicle, I sat in steering wheel or a vehicle, I sat in the driver's seat, my body was saying, the driver's seat, my body was saying, the driver's seat, my body was saying, "Hold on, alert. Don't you know what "Hold on, alert. Don't you know what "Hold on, alert. Don't you know what happened? The last time you were in happened? The last time you were in happened? The last time you were in these same conditions, the last time we these same conditions, the last time we these same conditions, the last time we were on a turnpike, the last time you were on a turnpike, the last time you were on a turnpike, the last time you were driving at night when a deer came."

were driving at night when a deer came." were driving at night when a deer came." Um, and so that's the natural fear. So Um, and so that's the natural fear. So Um, and so that's the natural fear. So that's one definition but that's not the that's one definition but that's not the that's one definition but that's not the only definition and actually what we see only definition and actually what we see only definition and actually what we see in the Bible. So actually this idea of in the Bible. So actually this idea of in the Bible. So actually this idea of anxiousness or worry or cares that we anxiousness or worry or cares that we anxiousness or worry or cares that we see in the Bible um we do see it see in the Bible um we do see it see in the Bible um we do see it sometimes communicated in a positive sometimes communicated in a positive sometimes communicated in a positive manner but overarchingly what we find in manner but overarchingly what we find in manner but overarchingly what we find in the New Testament it it's communicated the New Testament it it's communicated the New Testament it it's communicated in a negative manner. This is that in a negative manner. This is that in a negative manner. This is that sinful worry. So what happens is because sinful worry. So what happens is because sinful worry. So what happens is because you know that very good thing that you know that very good thing that you know that very good thing that natural fear for example to have the natural fear for example to have the natural fear for example to have the adrenaline to stop you know somebody adrenaline to stop you know somebody adrenaline to stop you know somebody coming in and harming your family that's coming in and harming your family that's coming in and harming your family that's a good thing that is good right your a good thing that is good right your a good thing that is good right your body is responding uh you hear about body is responding uh you hear about body is responding uh you hear about cases where like a mom was able to lift cases where like a mom was able to lift cases where like a mom was able to lift a car off her child like we want to have a car off her child like we want to have a car off her child like we want to have that kind of like natural adrenaline in that kind of like natural adrenaline in that kind of like natural adrenaline in our body because it's it's meant to keep our body because it's it's meant to keep our body because it's it's meant to keep us alive and keep alive the people that us alive and keep alive the people that us alive and keep alive the people that we love but because we're in a fallen we love but because we're in a fallen we love but because we're in a fallen world. We're in a fallen body. What world. We're in a fallen body. What world. We're in a fallen body. What happens is that that fear, it then kind happens is that that fear, it then kind happens is that that fear, it then kind of starts to swirl and it becomes not of starts to swirl and it becomes not of starts to swirl and it becomes not about keeping you alive. It becomes about keeping you alive. It becomes about keeping you alive. It becomes about control. So what we see in the New about control. So what we see in the New about control. So what we see in the New Testament is that anxiousness. It it's Testament is that anxiousness. It it's Testament is that anxiousness. It it's it's a sinful worry which means that you it's a sinful worry which means that you it's a sinful worry which means that you care to the point where you're divided.

care to the point where you're divided. care to the point where you're divided. You're all your attention is diverted You're all your attention is diverted You're all your attention is diverted away from God and it's on to the thing away from God and it's on to the thing away from God and it's on to the thing that you're worrying about or you're that you're worrying about or you're that you're worrying about or you're caring about. Um, so I like to say if caring about. Um, so I like to say if caring about. Um, so I like to say if you have a tunnel, you know, kind of a you have a tunnel, you know, kind of a you have a tunnel, you know, kind of a tunnel vision, all your cares are lined tunnel vision, all your cares are lined tunnel vision, all your cares are lined up in that tunnel is like, is God there? up in that tunnel is like, is God there? up in that tunnel is like, is God there? Is God anywhere, you know, where your Is God anywhere, you know, where your Is God anywhere, you know, where your cares are? Or is it just you and your cares are? Or is it just you and your cares are? Or is it just you and your cares? Because you want to control the cares? Because you want to control the cares? Because you want to control the situation. And so this looked like situation. And so this looked like situation. And so this looked like eventually me driving and then worrying, eventually me driving and then worrying, eventually me driving and then worrying, what if another deer comes? Oh no, what what if another deer comes? Oh no, what what if another deer comes? Oh no, what am I to do? Right? So then that gets am I to do? Right? So then that gets am I to do? Right? So then that gets into the sinful worry. Oh no. Oh no. Oh into the sinful worry. Oh no. Oh no. Oh into the sinful worry. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. What about another deer? Um, and now no. What about another deer? Um, and now no. What about another deer? Um, and now I'm not considering God. I'm not I'm not considering God. I'm not I'm not considering God. I'm not considering the God who has sufficient considering the God who has sufficient considering the God who has sufficient resources, right? Who can handle my resources, right? Who can handle my resources, right? Who can handle my concern. All I see is the thing I'm concern. All I see is the thing I'm concern. All I see is the thing I'm concerned about. And so it's important concerned about. And so it's important concerned about. And so it's important to make that distinction because what to make that distinction because what to make that distinction because what happens is we deal with a panic attack happens is we deal with a panic attack happens is we deal with a panic attack and now we're condemning ourselves. and now we're condemning ourselves. and now we're condemning ourselves. We're saying, well, be anxious for We're saying, well, be anxious for We're saying, well, be anxious for nothing. You know, why am I worrying? nothing. You know, why am I worrying? nothing. You know, why am I worrying? And it's like, oh, that's not what the And it's like, oh, that's not what the And it's like, oh, that's not what the author had in mind. He wasn't thinking author had in mind. He wasn't thinking author had in mind. He wasn't thinking about you in pmenopause unable to sleep, about you in pmenopause unable to sleep, about you in pmenopause unable to sleep, you know what I mean? Waking up in the you know what I mean? Waking up in the you know what I mean? Waking up in the middle of the night um in a sweat uh middle of the night um in a sweat uh middle of the night um in a sweat uh because things are happening because things are happening because things are happening physiologically with your body like um physiologically with your body like um physiologically with your body like um and so yeah, I learned to make that and so yeah, I learned to make that and so yeah, I learned to make that distinction and that was super helpful distinction and that was super helpful distinction and that was super helpful for me. That is so helpful. And even as for me. That is so helpful. And even as for me. That is so helpful. And even as you were talking, I was thinking I've you were talking, I was thinking I've you were talking, I was thinking I've been asked before, what's the best piece been asked before, what's the best piece been asked before, what's the best piece of advice I've ever received? And so of advice I've ever received? And so of advice I've ever received? And so I've said this before, but it's turning I've said this before, but it's turning I've said this before, but it's turning your what-ifs into even ifs. And it's

your what-ifs into even ifs. And it's your what-ifs into even ifs. And it's that idea of like when we start just that idea of like when we start just that idea of like when we start just ruminating on the what if, what if, what ruminating on the what if, what if, what ruminating on the what if, what if, what if, what if, then what we're doing is if, what if, then what we're doing is if, what if, then what we're doing is we're projecting to the future and we're we're projecting to the future and we're we're projecting to the future and we're saying if this happens, then God, you saying if this happens, then God, you saying if this happens, then God, you can't like you won't be there, you know, can't like you won't be there, you know, can't like you won't be there, you know, then then it means you're absent or then then it means you're absent or then then it means you're absent or you're not doing this. But if we can you're not doing this. But if we can you're not doing this. But if we can change those things that we because even change those things that we because even change those things that we because even even perry menopause or menopause and even perry menopause or menopause and even perry menopause or menopause and you wake up in the middle of the night, you wake up in the middle of the night, you wake up in the middle of the night, that's not sinful. But maybe what you do that's not sinful. But maybe what you do that's not sinful. But maybe what you do at that time, maybe what you allow to at that time, maybe what you allow to at that time, maybe what you allow to roll around in your mind, you know, it roll around in your mind, you know, it roll around in your mind, you know, it can turn into, right, the the the sinful can turn into, right, the the the sinful can turn into, right, the the the sinful worry or the worry that's not I mean, worry or the worry that's not I mean, worry or the worry that's not I mean, let me say it in a more positive way, let me say it in a more positive way, let me say it in a more positive way, like the worry that is not God-honoring, like the worry that is not God-honoring, like the worry that is not God-honoring, the worry that is leaving God out of the the worry that is leaving God out of the the worry that is leaving God out of the equation. Um, and so that turning your equation. Um, and so that turning your equation. Um, and so that turning your what-ifs into even ifs was just really, what-ifs into even ifs was just really, what-ifs into even ifs was just really, really helpful um, for me. But as you're really helpful um, for me. But as you're really helpful um, for me. But as you're talking, I'm really interested in this talking, I'm really interested in this talking, I'm really interested in this kind of what Melissa and you were just kind of what Melissa and you were just kind of what Melissa and you were just talking about with the different talking about with the different talking about with the different aspects, you know, physical, aspects, you know, physical, aspects, you know, physical, psychological, spiritual, and and you psychological, spiritual, and and you psychological, spiritual, and and you say in your book, humans are like a say in your book, humans are like a say in your book, humans are like a braid intricately woven of spirit, soul, braid intricately woven of spirit, soul, braid intricately woven of spirit, soul, and body. And so somehow understanding and body. And so somehow understanding and body. And so somehow understanding that interconnectedness has to play a that interconnectedness has to play a that interconnectedness has to play a part in our understanding of of anxiety part in our understanding of of anxiety part in our understanding of of anxiety and how they at at any given moment it and how they at at any given moment it and how they at at any given moment it has aspects of all three, right? Like has aspects of all three, right? Like has aspects of all three, right? Like we're never just um we're never just a we're never just um we're never just a we're never just um we're never just a bodyless soul or a soulless body.

bodyless soul or a soulless body. bodyless soul or a soulless body. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> We're both at the same time. And so, um, >> We're both at the same time. And so, um, >> We're both at the same time. And so, um, so how does that like speak into that so how does that like speak into that so how does that like speak into that interconnectedness of of body, spirit, interconnectedness of of body, spirit, interconnectedness of of body, spirit, soul, and mind, um, help us understand soul, and mind, um, help us understand soul, and mind, um, help us understand anxiety? anxiety? anxiety? >> Yeah. You know, I mean, we're made in >> Yeah. You know, I mean, we're made in >> Yeah. You know, I mean, we're made in the image of God, and that includes us the image of God, and that includes us the image of God, and that includes us being it's our embodied self, right? As being it's our embodied self, right? As being it's our embodied self, right? As you said, mind, body, and soul. But it's you said, mind, body, and soul. But it's you said, mind, body, and soul. But it's interesting because you know I think in interesting because you know I think in interesting because you know I think in sometimes you have some circles where sometimes you have some circles where sometimes you have some circles where the emphasis is more upon your soul or the emphasis is more upon your soul or the emphasis is more upon your soul or your spirit and to the neglect of your your spirit and to the neglect of your your spirit and to the neglect of your body you know like and it's like we body you know like and it's like we body you know like and it's like we wouldn't say like we're gnostics or like wouldn't say like we're gnostics or like wouldn't say like we're gnostics or like the body is evil you know and matter is the body is evil you know and matter is the body is evil you know and matter is evil but I think sometimes we function evil but I think sometimes we function evil but I think sometimes we function in in that way and then the other side in in that way and then the other side in in that way and then the other side is that it's all about the body it's all is that it's all about the body it's all is that it's all about the body it's all physical and there's no uh you know uh physical and there's no uh you know uh physical and there's no uh you know uh part to this that has to do with the part to this that has to do with the part to this that has to do with the soul and so I'm saying avoid the soul and so I'm saying avoid the soul and so I'm saying avoid the extremes, right? Um I I think it what's extremes, right? Um I I think it what's extremes, right? Um I I think it what's so helpful, Paul, he gives a category in so helpful, Paul, he gives a category in so helpful, Paul, he gives a category in 2 Corinthians 4:16 where he talks about, 2 Corinthians 4:16 where he talks about, 2 Corinthians 4:16 where he talks about, you know, how uh outwardly we're wasting you know, how uh outwardly we're wasting you know, how uh outwardly we're wasting away, but inwardly we're being renewed away, but inwardly we're being renewed away, but inwardly we're being renewed day by day. You know, these this kind of day by day. You know, these this kind of day by day. You know, these this kind of dichotomy that we have like we have a dichotomy that we have like we have a dichotomy that we have like we have a soul, we have a body, right? And so what soul, we have a body, right? And so what soul, we have a body, right? And so what does it look like to say, "Okay, Lord, does it look like to say, "Okay, Lord, does it look like to say, "Okay, Lord, this is the way that you've made me." I this is the way that you've made me." I this is the way that you've made me." I think what happens is often people they think what happens is often people they think what happens is often people they get so discouraged. So if the emphasis get so discouraged. So if the emphasis get so discouraged. So if the emphasis is upon their soul and they're reading is upon their soul and they're reading is upon their soul and they're reading scripture and they're praying to God and scripture and they're praying to God and scripture and they're praying to God and they're seeking to cast their cares and

they're seeking to cast their cares and they're seeking to cast their cares and their concerns over to God, but they're their concerns over to God, but they're their concerns over to God, but they're still dealing with the physiological still dealing with the physiological still dealing with the physiological symptoms, they can feel like, oh, why symptoms, they can feel like, oh, why symptoms, they can feel like, oh, why isn't this enough? Why isn't this isn't this enough? Why isn't this isn't this enough? Why isn't this working? What's wrong with me? Somehow working? What's wrong with me? Somehow working? What's wrong with me? Somehow I'm not doing something right. Um and I'm not doing something right. Um and I'm not doing something right. Um and then again, the other side is, oh, it's then again, the other side is, oh, it's then again, the other side is, oh, it's only physiological. we only deal with only physiological. we only deal with only physiological. we only deal with like the physical symptoms and then to like the physical symptoms and then to like the physical symptoms and then to the neglect of the possibility that the neglect of the possibility that the neglect of the possibility that there could be sin here. What I say is there could be sin here. What I say is there could be sin here. What I say is that you know what's so beautiful about that you know what's so beautiful about that you know what's so beautiful about being a Christian is that we have the being a Christian is that we have the being a Christian is that we have the Holy Spirit inside of us and we can Holy Spirit inside of us and we can Holy Spirit inside of us and we can trust that the Holy Spirit is going to trust that the Holy Spirit is going to trust that the Holy Spirit is going to make it clear. It's going to make it make it clear. It's going to make it make it clear. It's going to make it plain. Um but holding on to the plain. Um but holding on to the plain. Um but holding on to the scripture and believing that the scripture and believing that the scripture and believing that the scripture is sufficient right for you. scripture is sufficient right for you. scripture is sufficient right for you. That doesn't mean that you can't make That doesn't mean that you can't make That doesn't mean that you can't make use of things like nature or you can't use of things like nature or you can't use of things like nature or you can't make use of things like even medication. make use of things like even medication. make use of things like even medication. I think taking the shame out of I think taking the shame out of I think taking the shame out of medication if that's needed uh for a medication if that's needed uh for a medication if that's needed uh for a time uh or counselors or you know what I time uh or counselors or you know what I time uh or counselors or you know what I mean therapy. I think these things have mean therapy. I think these things have mean therapy. I think these things have been helpful uh for so many people. And been helpful uh for so many people. And been helpful uh for so many people. And so it removes the shame I think when we so it removes the shame I think when we so it removes the shame I think when we see ourselves the way God has made us uh see ourselves the way God has made us uh see ourselves the way God has made us uh as image bearsers. I love how you put as image bearsers. I love how you put as image bearsers. I love how you put that to um that that we are in a fallen that to um that that we are in a fallen that to um that that we are in a fallen world but the world does have ways to world but the world does have ways to world but the world does have ways to help us fight even you know I mean help us fight even you know I mean help us fight even you know I mean because I do think and this is not to because I do think and this is not to because I do think and this is not to simplify anything but even physical simplify anything but even physical simplify anything but even physical activity like being in nature there are activity like being in nature there are activity like being in nature there are some ways that we can um choose to fight some ways that we can um choose to fight some ways that we can um choose to fight that aren't aren't always spiritual. I that aren't aren't always spiritual. I that aren't aren't always spiritual. I mean that you know I mean there there mean that you know I mean there there mean that you know I mean there there are spiritual ways we can fight and I'm

are spiritual ways we can fight and I'm are spiritual ways we can fight and I'm getting ready to ask you about different getting ready to ask you about different getting ready to ask you about different tools. Um but but I do think it's tools. Um but but I do think it's tools. Um but but I do think it's interesting that even just because the interesting that even just because the interesting that even just because the world is the Lord's um there are going world is the Lord's um there are going world is the Lord's um there are going to be things just in his world that help to be things just in his world that help to be things just in his world that help our bodies our bodies our bodies be healthy and and work and and even be healthy and and work and and even be healthy and and work and and even help our minds be healthier, you know. help our minds be healthier, you know. help our minds be healthier, you know. And so I think that's why we need to And so I think that's why we need to And so I think that's why we need to have the conversation that Christians do have the conversation that Christians do have the conversation that Christians do struggle with these things so that we struggle with these things so that we struggle with these things so that we can talk about how do we fight? And so, can talk about how do we fight? And so, can talk about how do we fight? And so, you know, I I picture you as you were you know, I I picture you as you were you know, I I picture you as you were describing yourself, you know, in bed describing yourself, you know, in bed describing yourself, you know, in bed and just struggling to get out of bed, and just struggling to get out of bed, and just struggling to get out of bed, but you know, we're on this podcast with but you know, we're on this podcast with but you know, we're on this podcast with you right now and you've written I mean you right now and you've written I mean you right now and you've written I mean the just the fact I think that you to the just the fact I think that you to the just the fact I think that you to know, oh, how hopeful it is you had that know, oh, how hopeful it is you had that know, oh, how hopeful it is you had that season, but then you eventually wrote a season, but then you eventually wrote a season, but then you eventually wrote a book about this and studied and reading book about this and studied and reading book about this and studied and reading John Flav about this and you know, and John Flav about this and you know, and John Flav about this and you know, and now can speak about it and share with now can speak about it and share with now can speak about it and share with other people your experience. So, how other people your experience. So, how other people your experience. So, how did how did you go from being in bed did how did you go from being in bed did how did you go from being in bed maybe thinking maybe I'm never going to maybe thinking maybe I'm never going to maybe thinking maybe I'm never going to get out of this bed? I'm sure that's how get out of this bed? I'm sure that's how get out of this bed? I'm sure that's how people feel sometimes like I'm never people feel sometimes like I'm never people feel sometimes like I'm never going to um drive my car and not feel going to um drive my car and not feel going to um drive my car and not feel deeply panicked. Um h what tools helped deeply panicked. Um h what tools helped deeply panicked. Um h what tools helped you move through this and do you still you move through this and do you still you move through this and do you still employ today I'm sure to help fight employ today I'm sure to help fight employ today I'm sure to help fight against anxiety? Are there any that you against anxiety? Are there any that you against anxiety? Are there any that you are in your toolkit that you go to are in your toolkit that you go to are in your toolkit that you go to regularly to help?

regularly to help? regularly to help? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So for me, one of the >> Absolutely. Yeah. So for me, one of the >> Absolutely. Yeah. So for me, one of the things that I think my and first stop I things that I think my and first stop I things that I think my and first stop I guess at help was getting a biblical guess at help was getting a biblical guess at help was getting a biblical counselor. Um so I found a biblical counselor. Um so I found a biblical counselor. Um so I found a biblical counselor in my area. Um and that was counselor in my area. Um and that was counselor in my area. Um and that was extremely helpful um because for one she extremely helpful um because for one she extremely helpful um because for one she opened up our sessions with prayer. She opened up our sessions with prayer. She opened up our sessions with prayer. She pointed me to God's word. Uh she pointed me to God's word. Uh she pointed me to God's word. Uh she encouraged me even as uh you mentioned encouraged me even as uh you mentioned encouraged me even as uh you mentioned Courtney, I talk about the whatifs and Courtney, I talk about the whatifs and Courtney, I talk about the whatifs and turning that around to you know even if turning that around to you know even if turning that around to you know even if or how do we see the Lord in the in the or how do we see the Lord in the in the or how do we see the Lord in the in the midst of this. Um so that was helpful. midst of this. Um so that was helpful. midst of this. Um so that was helpful. Um, also I think applying the scripture. Um, also I think applying the scripture. Um, also I think applying the scripture. So, Philippians 4 I think is such a So, Philippians 4 I think is such a So, Philippians 4 I think is such a helpful text when it comes to especially helpful text when it comes to especially helpful text when it comes to especially sinful uh fear, a sinful fear which uh sinful uh fear, a sinful fear which uh sinful uh fear, a sinful fear which uh it says here, let me pull it up. Uh, it says here, let me pull it up. Uh, it says here, let me pull it up. Uh, Philippians 4, which you know, we're Philippians 4, which you know, we're Philippians 4, which you know, we're familiar with this. We can quote this familiar with this. We can quote this familiar with this. We can quote this actually, you know. Um, but do not be actually, you know. Um, but do not be actually, you know. Um, but do not be anxious about anything, but in anxious about anything, but in anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and petition with everything by prayer and petition with everything by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your requests to thanksgiving, present your requests to thanksgiving, present your requests to God, and the peace of God which God, and the peace of God which God, and the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard transcends all understanding will guard transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ. You your hearts and minds in Christ. You your hearts and minds in Christ. You know, in this passage, actually, know, in this passage, actually, know, in this passage, actually, starting in verse four, there are like starting in verse four, there are like starting in verse four, there are like six commands, you know, that Paul gives six commands, you know, that Paul gives six commands, you know, that Paul gives here. Um, one of the things that's here. Um, one of the things that's here. Um, one of the things that's important is for us to see first of all, important is for us to see first of all, important is for us to see first of all, where do we go with our anxiety, with where do we go with our anxiety, with where do we go with our anxiety, with our worry when it's sinful? And he says our worry when it's sinful? And he says our worry when it's sinful? And he says here, in everything by prayer and here, in everything by prayer and here, in everything by prayer and petition. So, I had to learn how to cast

petition. So, I had to learn how to cast petition. So, I had to learn how to cast my cares over to the Lord. I have heard my cares over to the Lord. I have heard my cares over to the Lord. I have heard to cast your cares my entire life being to cast your cares my entire life being to cast your cares my entire life being raised in the church. I didn't know how raised in the church. I didn't know how raised in the church. I didn't know how to do that practically. And so literally to do that practically. And so literally to do that practically. And so literally taking my requests before God um in taking my requests before God um in taking my requests before God um in prayer and supplication, right? That prayer and supplication, right? That prayer and supplication, right? That desperation of God, I can't handle this, desperation of God, I can't handle this, desperation of God, I can't handle this, but you can. And then I love how he but you can. And then I love how he but you can. And then I love how he says, "And with thanksgiving, right?" So says, "And with thanksgiving, right?" So says, "And with thanksgiving, right?" So this looks like first taking your this looks like first taking your this looks like first taking your request to God is saying, "Okay, God, request to God is saying, "Okay, God, request to God is saying, "Okay, God, I'm feeling anxious right now. Um you I'm feeling anxious right now. Um you I'm feeling anxious right now. Um you know, I know we're having dinner. I'm know, I know we're having dinner. I'm know, I know we're having dinner. I'm having dinner with friends and yet I having dinner with friends and yet I having dinner with friends and yet I feel like a panic attack is going to feel like a panic attack is going to feel like a panic attack is going to come. Um, I feel like I'm about to come. Um, I feel like I'm about to come. Um, I feel like I'm about to hyperventilate and my heart is starting hyperventilate and my heart is starting hyperventilate and my heart is starting to pound. Lord, I know that you're in to pound. Lord, I know that you're in to pound. Lord, I know that you're in control of my body. Actually, Colossians control of my body. Actually, Colossians control of my body. Actually, Colossians 1, you are holding the entire universe 1, you are holding the entire universe 1, you are holding the entire universe together. You're holding my mind together. You're holding my mind together. You're holding my mind together. You're holding my body together. You're holding my body together. You're holding my body together. Lord, would you hold me right together. Lord, would you hold me right together. Lord, would you hold me right now? Would you help me in this moment? now? Would you help me in this moment? now? Would you help me in this moment? Um, so I would pray prayers similar to Um, so I would pray prayers similar to Um, so I would pray prayers similar to that. And then with thanksgiving, that. And then with thanksgiving, that. And then with thanksgiving, what's so helpful about that is it what's so helpful about that is it what's so helpful about that is it reminds us of the character of our God reminds us of the character of our God reminds us of the character of our God and the promises of our God and how he's and the promises of our God and how he's and the promises of our God and how he's come through in the past. So to be come through in the past. So to be come through in the past. So to be reminded, let's say, for example, you're reminded, let's say, for example, you're reminded, let's say, for example, you're concerned about financial strains that concerned about financial strains that concerned about financial strains that you're dealing with right now. Well, can you're dealing with right now. Well, can you're dealing with right now. Well, can you recall in the past how the Lord came you recall in the past how the Lord came you recall in the past how the Lord came through that moment when you weren't through that moment when you weren't through that moment when you weren't sure how you're going to feed your sure how you're going to feed your sure how you're going to feed your family or feed your kids and the Lord family or feed your kids and the Lord family or feed your kids and the Lord provided and he sent someone, you know, provided and he sent someone, you know, provided and he sent someone, you know, to offer a meal or he sent that check in to offer a meal or he sent that check in to offer a meal or he sent that check in the mail, right? Be reminded of his the mail, right? Be reminded of his the mail, right? Be reminded of his character or how the Lord saved you,

character or how the Lord saved you, character or how the Lord saved you, right? He took care of your greatest right? He took care of your greatest right? He took care of your greatest need. I mean, can't he take care of need. I mean, can't he take care of need. I mean, can't he take care of these smaller needs, right? He can take these smaller needs, right? He can take these smaller needs, right? He can take care of that prodal child. uh he can care of that prodal child. uh he can care of that prodal child. uh he can take care of your husband or your spouse take care of your husband or your spouse take care of your husband or your spouse and you know and and maybe the the and you know and and maybe the the and you know and and maybe the the fighting that's happening or the fighting that's happening or the fighting that's happening or the conflict that's happening like he is conflict that's happening like he is conflict that's happening like he is able to take care of it. So it reminds able to take care of it. So it reminds able to take care of it. So it reminds us of the character of our God. Um and I us of the character of our God. Um and I us of the character of our God. Um and I love how it also says present your love how it also says present your love how it also says present your request to God and then it says and the request to God and then it says and the request to God and then it says and the peace of God which transcends all peace of God which transcends all peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and understanding will guard your hearts and understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ. It's it's really and minds in Christ. It's it's really and minds in Christ. It's it's really and later we see this uh encouragement to later we see this uh encouragement to later we see this uh encouragement to focus upon things that are true and good focus upon things that are true and good focus upon things that are true and good and lovely. Right? So this idea of and lovely. Right? So this idea of and lovely. Right? So this idea of surrounding yourself with God's truth, surrounding yourself with God's truth, surrounding yourself with God's truth, right? Casting these cares, reminding right? Casting these cares, reminding right? Casting these cares, reminding yourself of the gratitude that you can yourself of the gratitude that you can yourself of the gratitude that you can have because of who your God is and have because of who your God is and have because of who your God is and knowing that he's going to be with you knowing that he's going to be with you knowing that he's going to be with you in the midst of it. And actually his in the midst of it. And actually his in the midst of it. And actually his peace. So I I explained that anxiousness peace. So I I explained that anxiousness peace. So I I explained that anxiousness is to be divided, right? It's all these is to be divided, right? It's all these is to be divided, right? It's all these pieces. You're you're de you're pieces. You're you're de you're pieces. You're you're de you're diverted, right, away from God and onto diverted, right, away from God and onto diverted, right, away from God and onto your cares. But he brings it all your cares. But he brings it all your cares. But he brings it all together. That's what that peace there together. That's what that peace there together. That's what that peace there means, right? He unifies us. Earlier in means, right? He unifies us. Earlier in means, right? He unifies us. Earlier in this book, it says we have the mind of this book, it says we have the mind of this book, it says we have the mind of Christ, right? We're united with Christ.

Christ, right? We're united with Christ. Christ, right? We're united with Christ. So, he's reminding us of who we are and So, he's reminding us of who we are and So, he's reminding us of who we are and of who he is, of what he has given us in of who he is, of what he has given us in of who he is, of what he has given us in Christ. Um, and and that allows us to Christ. Um, and and that allows us to Christ. Um, and and that allows us to surround ourselves with the good, the surround ourselves with the good, the surround ourselves with the good, the beautiful, right, the lovely, the things beautiful, right, the lovely, the things beautiful, right, the lovely, the things that are true, which includes other that are true, which includes other that are true, which includes other believers. So, other believers, right? believers. So, other believers, right? believers. So, other believers, right? This community of faith was so helpful This community of faith was so helpful This community of faith was so helpful for me that I can't do this by myself. I for me that I can't do this by myself. I for me that I can't do this by myself. I can't do this separate from God, but I can't do this separate from God, but I can't do this separate from God, but I can't do this separate from my local can't do this separate from my local can't do this separate from my local church. So, I began to welcome people church. So, I began to welcome people church. So, I began to welcome people in. So, when I woke up, you know, at in. So, when I woke up, you know, at in. So, when I woke up, you know, at 1:00 in the morning because I was 1:00 in the morning because I was 1:00 in the morning because I was dreaming about deer and I was I woke up dreaming about deer and I was I woke up dreaming about deer and I was I woke up into a panic attack and I was in the into a panic attack and I was in the into a panic attack and I was in the moment thinking, do I wake up my husband moment thinking, do I wake up my husband moment thinking, do I wake up my husband or do I try to like, you know, woman up, or do I try to like, you know, woman up, or do I try to like, you know, woman up, you know, man up and deal with this by you know, man up and deal with this by you know, man up and deal with this by myself? I began to say, "No, I can't do myself? I began to say, "No, I can't do myself? I began to say, "No, I can't do this on my own. Let me wake up my this on my own. Let me wake up my this on my own. Let me wake up my husband and ask him to pray for me." And husband and ask him to pray for me." And husband and ask him to pray for me." And he was happy to do that. You when I'm he was happy to do that. You when I'm he was happy to do that. You when I'm sitting at dinner, let me ask my sitting at dinner, let me ask my sitting at dinner, let me ask my Christian friends to pray for me. And Christian friends to pray for me. And Christian friends to pray for me. And they were happy to do that, to walk with they were happy to do that, to walk with they were happy to do that, to walk with me. And that took away that shame. It me. And that took away that shame. It me. And that took away that shame. It took away the isolation. Um, and and the took away the isolation. Um, and and the took away the isolation. Um, and and the gospel message, it takes away any gospel message, it takes away any gospel message, it takes away any feeling of condemnation, right? because feeling of condemnation, right? because feeling of condemnation, right? because all of our sin and that punishment that all of our sin and that punishment that all of our sin and that punishment that we rightly deserve has been placed upon we rightly deserve has been placed upon we rightly deserve has been placed upon Jesus. We don't bear it anymore.

Jesus. We don't bear it anymore. Jesus. We don't bear it anymore. >> Um and so holding on, it's kind of all >> Um and so holding on, it's kind of all >> Um and so holding on, it's kind of all of those things was so helpful for me. of those things was so helpful for me. of those things was so helpful for me. >> Um so those are some of the things the >> Um so those are some of the things the >> Um so those are some of the things the Lord used um in my life to just kind of Lord used um in my life to just kind of Lord used um in my life to just kind of help me to see and it and it wasn't that help me to see and it and it wasn't that help me to see and it and it wasn't that I felt like okay that means everything I felt like okay that means everything I felt like okay that means everything is you know within the blink of an eye is you know within the blink of an eye is you know within the blink of an eye it's all fixed. It wasn't like that. It it's all fixed. It wasn't like that. It it's all fixed. It wasn't like that. It was a process, but I at least knew my was a process, but I at least knew my was a process, but I at least knew my God is going to be with me and I have a God is going to be with me and I have a God is going to be with me and I have a community of people who love me. That community of people who love me. That community of people who love me. That even if this lasts longer than I would even if this lasts longer than I would even if this lasts longer than I would like it, it already has lasted longer like it, it already has lasted longer like it, it already has lasted longer than I would like it. But even if it than I would like it. But even if it than I would like it. But even if it lasts for a long long longer time, I can lasts for a long long longer time, I can lasts for a long long longer time, I can still rejoice in the process because I still rejoice in the process because I still rejoice in the process because I know my good God is with me. Um and and know my good God is with me. Um and and know my good God is with me. Um and and he loves me, you know, and he does, he loves me, you know, and he does, he loves me, you know, and he does, doesn't he? And doesn't you have your doesn't he? And doesn't you have your doesn't he? And doesn't you have your book you have your Bible open to book you have your Bible open to book you have your Bible open to Philippians 4. Doesn't that whole Philippians 4. Doesn't that whole Philippians 4. Doesn't that whole passage start with the nearness of God? passage start with the nearness of God? passage start with the nearness of God? That because God is near like God is That because God is near like God is That because God is near like God is near and that's why we can do all these near and that's why we can do all these near and that's why we can do all these things. That's why he can remove that things. That's why he can remove that things. That's why he can remove that anxiety that's not of him or from him anxiety that's not of him or from him anxiety that's not of him or from him and that's why we can go to him with and that's why we can go to him with and that's why we can go to him with thanksgiving and present all of our thanksgiving and present all of our thanksgiving and present all of our requests. But you know, Blair, what I requests. But you know, Blair, what I requests. But you know, Blair, what I love that you just did is you took us love that you just did is you took us love that you just did is you took us immediately like your the tools that you immediately like your the tools that you immediately like your the tools that you just shared with us were immediately just shared with us were immediately just shared with us were immediately grounded in scripture, but then you're grounded in scripture, but then you're grounded in scripture, but then you're fleshing out how you actually not just fleshing out how you actually not just fleshing out how you actually not just applied it, but like clung to those applied it, but like clung to those applied it, but like clung to those words. And I think so often um you know, words. And I think so often um you know, words. And I think so often um you know, my experience, I have not experienced a my experience, I have not experienced a my experience, I have not experienced a lot of anxiety personally, but a lot of

lot of anxiety personally, but a lot of lot of anxiety personally, but a lot of people I love have. And I know that so people I love have. And I know that so people I love have. And I know that so often um you know the the first often um you know the the first often um you know the the first inclination can be maybe some some inclination can be maybe some some inclination can be maybe some some helpful tools, but they're not they're helpful tools, but they're not they're helpful tools, but they're not they're not just running to the Lord. And so not just running to the Lord. And so not just running to the Lord. And so even the way you took that um scripture even the way you took that um scripture even the way you took that um scripture and you showed us how in the middle of and you showed us how in the middle of and you showed us how in the middle of the night you could you could cling to the night you could you could cling to the night you could you could cling to that and you could apply it. I mean that that and you could apply it. I mean that that and you could apply it. I mean that was just a beautiful anchoring of this was just a beautiful anchoring of this was just a beautiful anchoring of this whole thing um in the word of God whole thing um in the word of God whole thing um in the word of God because it is living. it is active. It's because it is living. it is active. It's because it is living. it is active. It's actually it's actually helping us in the actually it's actually helping us in the actually it's actually helping us in the moment as we cling to it and believe it moment as we cling to it and believe it moment as we cling to it and believe it and apply it and and live it. And so I and apply it and and live it. And so I and apply it and and live it. And so I just thought that was extremely just thought that was extremely just thought that was extremely um helpful. So thank you. We are um helpful. So thank you. We are um helpful. So thank you. We are actually going to take a little break, actually going to take a little break, actually going to take a little break, hear a word from our sponsor, and then hear a word from our sponsor, and then hear a word from our sponsor, and then we're going to be back and we're going we're going to be back and we're going we're going to be back and we're going to One of my questions that I'm so to One of my questions that I'm so to One of my questions that I'm so looking forward to asking you has to do looking forward to asking you has to do looking forward to asking you has to do with advice that you've regretted with advice that you've regretted with advice that you've regretted giving. So, um, we'll be back in just a giving. So, um, we'll be back in just a giving. So, um, we'll be back in just a minute and we'll hear more from Blair.

minute and we'll hear more from Blair. minute and we'll hear more from Blair. Well, welcome back. So, I told you that Well, welcome back. So, I told you that Well, welcome back. So, I told you that when we came back, I was going to ask a when we came back, I was going to ask a when we came back, I was going to ask a question of Blair that I'm really question of Blair that I'm really question of Blair that I'm really excited to ask her because because I excited to ask her because because I excited to ask her because because I think we've all been there. And I'll think we've all been there. And I'll think we've all been there. And I'll tell you before I asked this question tell you before I asked this question tell you before I asked this question earlier in the episode when you said you earlier in the episode when you said you earlier in the episode when you said you went to some older women in your church went to some older women in your church went to some older women in your church and they gave you good advice. I was so and they gave you good advice. I was so and they gave you good advice. I was so relieved to hear that because I think a relieved to hear that because I think a relieved to hear that because I think a lot of times um you know the the kind of lot of times um you know the the kind of lot of times um you know the the kind of caricature is that the older generation caricature is that the older generation caricature is that the older generation doesn't always um enter into this doesn't always um enter into this doesn't always um enter into this conversation very well or very um conversation very well or very um conversation very well or very um nuanced but that it is a little nuanced but that it is a little nuanced but that it is a little oversimplistic to Melissa's point oversimplistic to Melissa's point oversimplistic to Melissa's point earlier. So, I was encouraged by that. earlier. So, I was encouraged by that. earlier. So, I was encouraged by that. And then I want to ask you, you say that And then I want to ask you, you say that And then I want to ask you, you say that you look back with regret on the advice you look back with regret on the advice you look back with regret on the advice that you gave a friend who was that you gave a friend who was that you gave a friend who was struggling with anxiety. And I think the struggling with anxiety. And I think the struggling with anxiety. And I think the advice you gave was just she just needed advice you gave was just she just needed advice you gave was just she just needed to trust the Lord um more. But now that to trust the Lord um more. But now that to trust the Lord um more. But now that you've been through this struggle, you've been through this struggle, you've been through this struggle, you've experienced it for yourself, how you've experienced it for yourself, how you've experienced it for yourself, how would that advice change? And what would that advice change? And what would that advice change? And what advice was helpful when it was given to advice was helpful when it was given to advice was helpful when it was given to you? you? you? >> Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. This was an old >> Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. This was an old >> Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. This was an old roommate when I was in my early 20s and roommate when I was in my early 20s and roommate when I was in my early 20s and um she just came and said, you know, I'm um she just came and said, you know, I'm um she just came and said, you know, I'm dealing with feeling anxious and yeah, I dealing with feeling anxious and yeah, I dealing with feeling anxious and yeah, I was like just trust the Lord, you know, was like just trust the Lord, you know, was like just trust the Lord, you know, kind of read these two scriptures, you kind of read these two scriptures, you kind of read these two scriptures, you know, and you know, everything's going know, and you know, everything's going know, and you know, everything's going to like magically be okay, you know. Um to like magically be okay, you know. Um to like magically be okay, you know. Um and after, you know, years and years and after, you know, years and years and after, you know, years and years after as I experienced this, I remember after as I experienced this, I remember after as I experienced this, I remember thinking, "Oh no, for one, I I didn't thinking, "Oh no, for one, I I didn't thinking, "Oh no, for one, I I didn't even take the time to listen to hear out even take the time to listen to hear out even take the time to listen to hear out to hear her story. I didn't even know

to hear her story. I didn't even know to hear her story. I didn't even know any of the details of her story. I just any of the details of her story. I just any of the details of her story. I just kind of almost like a band-aid, you kind of almost like a band-aid, you kind of almost like a band-aid, you know. It's like kind of like, you know, know. It's like kind of like, you know, know. It's like kind of like, you know, get yourself together, you know, like um get yourself together, you know, like um get yourself together, you know, like um why are you dealing with this? Oh, so why are you dealing with this? Oh, so why are you dealing with this? Oh, so just trust the Lord and and it's going just trust the Lord and and it's going just trust the Lord and and it's going to be fine. And and so I remember having to be fine. And and so I remember having to be fine. And and so I remember having actually maybe right right before I actually maybe right right before I actually maybe right right before I wrote the book, I reached back out to wrote the book, I reached back out to wrote the book, I reached back out to her on Facebook and just apologized and her on Facebook and just apologized and her on Facebook and just apologized and said, I I just I was so quick to speak. said, I I just I was so quick to speak. said, I I just I was so quick to speak. And and so my encouragement for those And and so my encouragement for those And and so my encouragement for those who are walking with other people um do who are walking with other people um do who are walking with other people um do like Job's did. Job's friends did at the like Job's did. Job's friends did at the like Job's did. Job's friends did at the beginning. You know, when they initially beginning. You know, when they initially beginning. You know, when they initially came to Job, they were quiet, you know, came to Job, they were quiet, you know, came to Job, they were quiet, you know, for like seven days and seven nights. for like seven days and seven nights. for like seven days and seven nights. I think I think we're so quick, you I think I think we're so quick, you I think I think we're so quick, you know, to want to fix it. Um I think we know, to want to fix it. Um I think we know, to want to fix it. Um I think we have good intentions a lot of the time, have good intentions a lot of the time, have good intentions a lot of the time, most of the time. Um but until you most of the time. Um but until you most of the time. Um but until you listen to the person's story, you won't listen to the person's story, you won't listen to the person's story, you won't know what's really going on. And often know what's really going on. And often know what's really going on. And often what our temptation is is to apply to what our temptation is is to apply to what our temptation is is to apply to other people what we've experienced. So other people what we've experienced. So other people what we've experienced. So it's like, well, I've dealt with sinful it's like, well, I've dealt with sinful it's like, well, I've dealt with sinful worry. And so your experience must be worry. And so your experience must be worry. And so your experience must be sinful worry. And so you just trust the sinful worry. And so you just trust the sinful worry. And so you just trust the Lord. You read these scriptures and it's Lord. You read these scriptures and it's Lord. You read these scriptures and it's going to, you know, be gone. But what if going to, you know, be gone. But what if going to, you know, be gone. But what if they are dealing with some physiological they are dealing with some physiological they are dealing with some physiological symptoms? And until you slow down and symptoms? And until you slow down and symptoms? And until you slow down and you ask the question, it might make more you ask the question, it might make more you ask the question, it might make more sense to say, "Oh, you're feeling sense to say, "Oh, you're feeling sense to say, "Oh, you're feeling overwhelmed. You know, let's set up a overwhelmed. You know, let's set up a overwhelmed. You know, let's set up a meal train. Oh, let's see if there's a meal train. Oh, let's see if there's a meal train. Oh, let's see if there's a benevolence fund. Maybe you need to see benevolence fund. Maybe you need to see benevolence fund. Maybe you need to see a counselor. Or, you know, maybe can I a counselor. Or, you know, maybe can I a counselor. Or, you know, maybe can I go with you? Maybe I'll I'll drive you go with you? Maybe I'll I'll drive you go with you? Maybe I'll I'll drive you to a counselor, you know, or or maybe we

to a counselor, you know, or or maybe we to a counselor, you know, or or maybe we let's go talk and walk in nature. Let's let's go talk and walk in nature. Let's let's go talk and walk in nature. Let's plan a girls trip, you know, if you can plan a girls trip, you know, if you can plan a girls trip, you know, if you can afford one, you know, where we just walk afford one, you know, where we just walk afford one, you know, where we just walk and we pray and maybe we have a little and we pray and maybe we have a little and we pray and maybe we have a little retreat. Um, it it kind of depends upon retreat. Um, it it kind of depends upon retreat. Um, it it kind of depends upon what's going on. So, a good friend what's going on. So, a good friend what's going on. So, a good friend listens well, is slow to speak. Um, and listens well, is slow to speak. Um, and listens well, is slow to speak. Um, and then when you do speak, you know, Christ then when you do speak, you know, Christ then when you do speak, you know, Christ is our power and wisdom, right? That is our power and wisdom, right? That is our power and wisdom, right? That they need to be pointed to Jesus. Um, they need to be pointed to Jesus. Um, they need to be pointed to Jesus. Um, but that doesn't mean that they don't but that doesn't mean that they don't but that doesn't mean that they don't need other things, too. And so, yeah, need other things, too. And so, yeah, need other things, too. And so, yeah, just be a good a good friend, a good just be a good a good friend, a good just be a good a good friend, a good listener, be present with them. I love I listener, be present with them. I love I listener, be present with them. I love I love that. And and I think even the love that. And and I think even the love that. And and I think even the understanding behind that listening is understanding behind that listening is understanding behind that listening is that we are all different pieces of that we are all different pieces of that we are all different pieces of clay. We were all clay. clay. We were all clay. clay. We were all clay. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But the reality is some things are >> But the reality is some things are >> But the reality is some things are easier for me than other people and some easier for me than other people and some easier for me than other people and some things are harder for me than other things are harder for me than other things are harder for me than other people. And I remember I mean because I people. And I remember I mean because I people. And I remember I mean because I was kind of like Courtney. I I really was kind of like Courtney. I I really was kind of like Courtney. I I really hadn't struggled with anxiety, you know, hadn't struggled with anxiety, you know, hadn't struggled with anxiety, you know, in my life. And I I'll be honest, I in my life. And I I'll be honest, I in my life. And I I'll be honest, I think I kind of had a prideful, oh, I think I kind of had a prideful, oh, I think I kind of had a prideful, oh, I have the right theology, so therefore have the right theology, so therefore have the right theology, so therefore because I believe God's sovereign. Well, because I believe God's sovereign. Well, because I believe God's sovereign. Well, they were never anxious, right? And then they were never anxious, right? And then they were never anxious, right? And then I went through an experience and I went through an experience and I went through an experience and Courtney was actually with me when I Courtney was actually with me when I Courtney was actually with me when I went through this experience. And the went through this experience. And the went through this experience. And the first time I had a panic attack and I first time I had a panic attack and I first time I had a panic attack and I remember being like something outside is remember being like something outside is remember being like something outside is happening to me. I knew I knew it was happening to me. I knew I knew it was happening to me. I knew I knew it was not normal because I didn't normally not normal because I didn't normally not normal because I didn't normally struggle with anxiety, you know, and struggle with anxiety, you know, and struggle with anxiety, you know, and this experience. And it was like, oh, it this experience. And it was like, oh, it this experience. And it was like, oh, it gave me such a different um sympathy and

gave me such a different um sympathy and gave me such a different um sympathy and understanding for what different people understanding for what different people understanding for what different people are facing and just how um each of us are facing and just how um each of us are facing and just how um each of us has different types of struggles. And has different types of struggles. And has different types of struggles. And so, we really need to listen to one so, we really need to listen to one so, we really need to listen to one another and hear from one another. Um another and hear from one another. Um another and hear from one another. Um and I I also love what you said earlier and I I also love what you said earlier and I I also love what you said earlier about that healing is a process. It's, about that healing is a process. It's, about that healing is a process. It's, you know, and and I think about that. you know, and and I think about that. you know, and and I think about that. You're right. I broke my ankle at one You're right. I broke my ankle at one You're right. I broke my ankle at one point. No one thought I should be up the point. No one thought I should be up the point. No one thought I should be up the next day like walking on it. You know, next day like walking on it. You know, next day like walking on it. You know, it took time to heal and even to, you it took time to heal and even to, you it took time to heal and even to, you know, like you said, you had to learn know, like you said, you had to learn know, like you said, you had to learn how to speak even truth and cast your how to speak even truth and cast your how to speak even truth and cast your anxieties on the Lord. Like that was a anxieties on the Lord. Like that was a anxieties on the Lord. Like that was a process. And I think the listening and process. And I think the listening and process. And I think the listening and then the patiently walking alongside and then the patiently walking alongside and then the patiently walking alongside and and the reality is I think we're just and the reality is I think we're just and the reality is I think we're just sometimes not that patient with with one sometimes not that patient with with one sometimes not that patient with with one another and or or even with ourselves. another and or or even with ourselves. another and or or even with ourselves. Um and so tell me how do we live then in Um and so tell me how do we live then in Um and so tell me how do we live then in that tension of the you know okay the that tension of the you know okay the that tension of the you know okay the now and the not yet of this battle now and the not yet of this battle now and the not yet of this battle because there there are tools available because there there are tools available because there there are tools available to us but we're still we still are in a to us but we're still we still are in a to us but we're still we still are in a fallen world and our bodies are still fallen world and our bodies are still fallen world and our bodies are still falling fallen. We we are saved and we falling fallen. We we are saved and we falling fallen. We we are saved and we are being saved and one day we will be are being saved and one day we will be are being saved and one day we will be fully you know we'll receive new bodies fully you know we'll receive new bodies fully you know we'll receive new bodies but we do have these bodies and they but we do have these bodies and they but we do have these bodies and they don't you know they they seem to be don't you know they they seem to be don't you know they they seem to be working less and less well as we age but working less and less well as we age but working less and less well as we age but that's a whole another that's a whole that's a whole another that's a whole that's a whole another that's a whole another episode right so how do we how another episode right so how do we how another episode right so how do we how do we walk in the now and the not yet uh

do we walk in the now and the not yet uh do we walk in the now and the not yet uh when we battle anxiety when we battle anxiety when we battle anxiety >> yeah I you know I think it's important >> yeah I you know I think it's important >> yeah I you know I think it's important we have to know who our God is we have we have to know who our God is we have we have to know who our God is we have to know the character of God. Um but but to know the character of God. Um but but to know the character of God. Um but but also to know that he's with us. And and also to know that he's with us. And and also to know that he's with us. And and what's beautiful is over time, the Lord what's beautiful is over time, the Lord what's beautiful is over time, the Lord is so merciful that he he helps us to is so merciful that he he helps us to is so merciful that he he helps us to actually walk out in faith. Not just the actually walk out in faith. Not just the actually walk out in faith. Not just the knowledge of knowing who he is, but like knowledge of knowing who he is, but like knowledge of knowing who he is, but like practically, okay, what does this look practically, okay, what does this look practically, okay, what does this look like? It it looks like me clinging to like? It it looks like me clinging to like? It it looks like me clinging to you in the moment. It looks like me you in the moment. It looks like me you in the moment. It looks like me knowing I'm not going to um you know, knowing I'm not going to um you know, knowing I'm not going to um you know, what is it in Psalm 131? you know, I'm what is it in Psalm 131? you know, I'm what is it in Psalm 131? you know, I'm not going to uh focus on things too not going to uh focus on things too not going to uh focus on things too wonderful for me, you know, because I wonderful for me, you know, because I wonderful for me, you know, because I this is this is beyond my pay grade. this is this is beyond my pay grade. this is this is beyond my pay grade. Like, I don't have the resume, you know, Like, I don't have the resume, you know, Like, I don't have the resume, you know, to deal with these cares and concerns, to deal with these cares and concerns, to deal with these cares and concerns, but you do. And and the thing that I but you do. And and the thing that I but you do. And and the thing that I need, you are actually able to provide need, you are actually able to provide need, you are actually able to provide it. Now, whether or not you choose to it. Now, whether or not you choose to it. Now, whether or not you choose to provide it, I'm still going to trust provide it, I'm still going to trust provide it, I'm still going to trust you. Right? It's like Joe, though he you. Right? It's like Joe, though he you. Right? It's like Joe, though he slay me, yet will I trust him. Why? slay me, yet will I trust him. Why? slay me, yet will I trust him. Why? Because I know something that goes Because I know something that goes Because I know something that goes beyond my circumstances. I know someone beyond my circumstances. I know someone beyond my circumstances. I know someone who's greater than my circumstances. And who's greater than my circumstances. And who's greater than my circumstances. And so it's not just a matter of getting so it's not just a matter of getting so it's not just a matter of getting over, you know, the anxiety because I over, you know, the anxiety because I over, you know, the anxiety because I think sometimes when we do that, we kind think sometimes when we do that, we kind think sometimes when we do that, we kind of fight anxiety with more anxiety, of fight anxiety with more anxiety, of fight anxiety with more anxiety, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> We get anxious about being anxious. >> We get anxious about being anxious. >> We get anxious about being anxious. >> We're anxious about being anxious. Yeah, >> We're anxious about being anxious. Yeah, >> We're anxious about being anxious. Yeah, we do. you know, but it's like, no, I'm we do. you know, but it's like, no, I'm we do. you know, but it's like, no, I'm I am going to fight anxiety by clinging I am going to fight anxiety by clinging I am going to fight anxiety by clinging to my God, by standing in awe of him, by to my God, by standing in awe of him, by to my God, by standing in awe of him, by fearing him to the point where I fearing him to the point where I fearing him to the point where I remember saying, Lord, even if my remember saying, Lord, even if my remember saying, Lord, even if my situation never changes, you're with me. situation never changes, you're with me. situation never changes, you're with me. Even if I drive and another deer comes, Even if I drive and another deer comes, Even if I drive and another deer comes, you are providentially over the deer. I you are providentially over the deer. I you are providentially over the deer. I can't control the deer, you know what I can't control the deer, you know what I can't control the deer, you know what I mean? But you can. And so, I can mean? But you can. And so, I can mean? But you can. And so, I can actually trust you. And I think that's actually trust you. And I think that's actually trust you. And I think that's that, you know, it's it's it's focusing that, you know, it's it's it's focusing that, you know, it's it's it's focusing in on the hope um you know, uh focusing in on the hope um you know, uh focusing in on the hope um you know, uh focusing in on the fact that we have an eternal in on the fact that we have an eternal in on the fact that we have an eternal hope that supersedes our circumstances hope that supersedes our circumstances hope that supersedes our circumstances is going to keep our eyes focused on is going to keep our eyes focused on is going to keep our eyes focused on eternity, on our Lord, on the new eternity, on our Lord, on the new eternity, on our Lord, on the new identity he's given us in Christ, which identity he's given us in Christ, which identity he's given us in Christ, which says I can keep hope alive. you know, says I can keep hope alive. you know, says I can keep hope alive. you know, like I could keep walking day by day like I could keep walking day by day like I could keep walking day by day trusting him um no matter what comes.

trusting him um no matter what comes. trusting him um no matter what comes. Because the thing is if we just if I Because the thing is if we just if I Because the thing is if we just if I just look at like, oh yeah, well, I'm just look at like, oh yeah, well, I'm just look at like, oh yeah, well, I'm not really dealing with anxiety anymore not really dealing with anxiety anymore not really dealing with anxiety anymore the way I was before. I'm so grateful. I the way I was before. I'm so grateful. I the way I was before. I'm so grateful. I don't feel anxious all day every day don't feel anxious all day every day don't feel anxious all day every day like I did. But also, I still have life like I did. But also, I still have life like I did. But also, I still have life to live, right? I'm still going to to live, right? I'm still going to to live, right? I'm still going to experience hardship. There's still going experience hardship. There's still going experience hardship. There's still going to be some suffering, um you know, maybe to be some suffering, um you know, maybe to be some suffering, um you know, maybe affliction. I don't know what's to come. affliction. I don't know what's to come. affliction. I don't know what's to come. And so if it's just about getting over, And so if it's just about getting over, And so if it's just about getting over, you know, a panic attack, right, that's you know, a panic attack, right, that's you know, a panic attack, right, that's the temporal fix. But if it's about me the temporal fix. But if it's about me the temporal fix. But if it's about me having my hope in God and me clinging to having my hope in God and me clinging to having my hope in God and me clinging to Christ no matter what comes, that is Christ no matter what comes, that is Christ no matter what comes, that is going to set me up, I think, and set going to set me up, I think, and set going to set me up, I think, and set those listening up for success, for those listening up for success, for those listening up for success, for perseverance, right? For endurance, for perseverance, right? For endurance, for perseverance, right? For endurance, for longsuffering, um for knowing that we longsuffering, um for knowing that we longsuffering, um for knowing that we can trust God no matter what comes. And can trust God no matter what comes. And can trust God no matter what comes. And so that's living I believe in the um you so that's living I believe in the um you so that's living I believe in the um you know the not yet the already and the not know the not yet the already and the not know the not yet the already and the not yet um is like fixing ourselves on that yet um is like fixing ourselves on that yet um is like fixing ourselves on that hope that eternal hope we have uh no hope that eternal hope we have uh no hope that eternal hope we have uh no matter what comes. Blair I feel like matter what comes. Blair I feel like matter what comes. Blair I feel like okay for anybody listening that is okay for anybody listening that is okay for anybody listening that is struggling with anxiety or or struggling struggling with anxiety or or struggling struggling with anxiety or or struggling to understand somebody who is struggling to understand somebody who is struggling to understand somebody who is struggling with anxiety. I feel like they I'm I'm with anxiety. I feel like they I'm I'm with anxiety. I feel like they I'm I'm just going to encourage you to go back, just going to encourage you to go back, just going to encourage you to go back, rewind what you've been listening to for rewind what you've been listening to for rewind what you've been listening to for five minutes because chances are you're five minutes because chances are you're five minutes because chances are you're driving down the road and your mind is driving down the road and your mind is driving down the road and your mind is on something else and you're half on something else and you're half on something else and you're half listening. I feel like the last five listening. I feel like the last five listening. I feel like the last five minutes are what we all need to hear in minutes are what we all need to hear in minutes are what we all need to hear in this conversation because you you were this conversation because you you were this conversation because you you were talking about this idea of you know

talking about this idea of you know talking about this idea of you know because so often we do become anxious because so often we do become anxious because so often we do become anxious about our anxiety like we and and so the about our anxiety like we and and so the about our anxiety like we and and so the cure like it's a how do I fix this cure like it's a how do I fix this cure like it's a how do I fix this anxiety and what you're saying is don't anxiety and what you're saying is don't anxiety and what you're saying is don't fix your eyes on fixing the anxiety fix fix your eyes on fixing the anxiety fix fix your eyes on fixing the anxiety fix your eyes on something that transcends your eyes on something that transcends your eyes on something that transcends the anxiety fix your eyes on something the anxiety fix your eyes on something the anxiety fix your eyes on something greater than the anxiety and I just greater than the anxiety and I just greater than the anxiety and I just think that that is it is beautiful and think that that is it is beautiful and think that that is it is beautiful and it's true and it's really our only hope it's true and it's really our only hope it's true and it's really our only hope in it is to replace fear with a greater in it is to replace fear with a greater in it is to replace fear with a greater you know fear of the holy like fear of you know fear of the holy like fear of you know fear of the holy like fear of like the proper fear not not cowering like the proper fear not not cowering like the proper fear not not cowering fear but um but to take the things that fear but um but to take the things that fear but um but to take the things that make us anxious and to to cast them on make us anxious and to to cast them on make us anxious and to to cast them on the Lord and to look at him and his the Lord and to look at him and his the Lord and to look at him and his character and his goodness um and his character and his goodness um and his character and his goodness um and his trustworthiness. We were talking about trustworthiness. We were talking about trustworthiness. We were talking about trustworthiness last night in Bible trustworthiness last night in Bible trustworthiness last night in Bible study with I'm in Bible study with just study with I'm in Bible study with just study with I'm in Bible study with just two young women and we were talking two young women and we were talking two young women and we were talking about just the the trustworthiness of about just the the trustworthiness of about just the the trustworthiness of the Lord and how that really is it's the Lord and how that really is it's the Lord and how that really is it's both the foundation of our faith but both the foundation of our faith but both the foundation of our faith but it's also kind of the pinnacle of our it's also kind of the pinnacle of our it's also kind of the pinnacle of our faith. Like I think that's what the faith. Like I think that's what the faith. Like I think that's what the whole this whole life is pushing us whole this whole life is pushing us whole this whole life is pushing us towards is to trust him more and more towards is to trust him more and more towards is to trust him more and more and more and more. And so how to even and more and more. And so how to even and more and more. And so how to even trust in the midst of anxiety. So, I trust in the midst of anxiety. So, I trust in the midst of anxiety. So, I just thought that was a beautiful help just thought that was a beautiful help just thought that was a beautiful help and hope. Um, well, you've written a and hope. Um, well, you've written a and hope. Um, well, you've written a children's book which um I my first children's book which um I my first children's book which um I my first children's book is coming out in children's book is coming out in children's book is coming out in September and this was a really fun. So, September and this was a really fun. So, September and this was a really fun. So, I want to hear more about um yours I want to hear more about um yours I want to hear more about um yours because it was quite a journey. I

because it was quite a journey. I because it was quite a journey. I thought it's 850 words. How hard can it thought it's 850 words. How hard can it thought it's 850 words. How hard can it be? It was a lot harder than I thought be? It was a lot harder than I thought be? It was a lot harder than I thought it would be. But um you have written one it would be. But um you have written one it would be. But um you have written one called Yara the Brave and the Swirling called Yara the Brave and the Swirling called Yara the Brave and the Swirling Worry. uh what is so I do think we're Worry. uh what is so I do think we're Worry. uh what is so I do think we're hearing more and more about children hearing more and more about children hearing more and more about children struggling with anxiety at pretty early struggling with anxiety at pretty early struggling with anxiety at pretty early ages. Um and so what what have you ages. Um and so what what have you ages. Um and so what what have you learned? What advice would you give? learned? What advice would you give? learned? What advice would you give? What what do you hope the book will What what do you hope the book will What what do you hope the book will accomplish for parents who have a child accomplish for parents who have a child accomplish for parents who have a child struggling with anxiety? struggling with anxiety? struggling with anxiety? >> Yeah. So, you know, Yara the Brave, I >> Yeah. So, you know, Yara the Brave, I >> Yeah. So, you know, Yara the Brave, I love writing. This was my first love writing. This was my first love writing. This was my first children's book and it was so much fun children's book and it was so much fun children's book and it was so much fun to create these characters. But Yara is to create these characters. But Yara is to create these characters. But Yara is like the bravest girl in her town. Um, like the bravest girl in her town. Um, like the bravest girl in her town. Um, and yet one day she finds herself with a and yet one day she finds herself with a and yet one day she finds herself with a worry and she's not sure what to do. So worry and she's not sure what to do. So worry and she's not sure what to do. So she is decided that she's going to stuff she is decided that she's going to stuff she is decided that she's going to stuff it into her backpack. She's going to try it into her backpack. She's going to try it into her backpack. She's going to try to hide it, you know, so that no one to hide it, you know, so that no one to hide it, you know, so that no one knows. And there's this worry worm knows. And there's this worry worm knows. And there's this worry worm that's following her and he's spinning a that's following her and he's spinning a that's following her and he's spinning a silk all around her. Um, and ultimately silk all around her. Um, and ultimately silk all around her. Um, and ultimately she meets these friends kind of in a she meets these friends kind of in a she meets these friends kind of in a fight orflight mode. Meets these fight orflight mode. Meets these fight orflight mode. Meets these friends. Mr. Win teaches her how to friends. Mr. Win teaches her how to friends. Mr. Win teaches her how to breathe. Um, Mr. Raven teaches her how breathe. Um, Mr. Raven teaches her how breathe. Um, Mr. Raven teaches her how to sing God's truth. Miss Lily teaches to sing God's truth. Miss Lily teaches to sing God's truth. Miss Lily teaches her about God's promises and how to pray her about God's promises and how to pray her about God's promises and how to pray to God. And then she meets a sheep who to God. And then she meets a sheep who to God. And then she meets a sheep who reminds her that she has a good shepherd reminds her that she has a good shepherd reminds her that she has a good shepherd uh who shares the gospel and just that, uh who shares the gospel and just that, uh who shares the gospel and just that, you know, Christ has conquered our you know, Christ has conquered our you know, Christ has conquered our worry, our fear, and so we can trust in worry, our fear, and so we can trust in worry, our fear, and so we can trust in him. He's with us. Um and in the end all him. He's with us. Um and in the end all him. He's with us. Um and in the end all those swirly silk that you know miss the those swirly silk that you know miss the those swirly silk that you know miss the worryworm you know created around her it worryworm you know created around her it worryworm you know created around her it actually allows her to now be brave to

actually allows her to now be brave to actually allows her to now be brave to develop wings but not in her own develop wings but not in her own develop wings but not in her own strength which is what she had at the strength which is what she had at the strength which is what she had at the beginning but now in the strength of God beginning but now in the strength of God beginning but now in the strength of God the strength that God provides and um in the strength that God provides and um in the strength that God provides and um in the end I have this kind of big sheep the end I have this kind of big sheep the end I have this kind of big sheep little sheep connection and I'm hoping little sheep connection and I'm hoping little sheep connection and I'm hoping that it will spark a lot of conversation that it will spark a lot of conversation that it will spark a lot of conversation amongst parents and their children or a amongst parents and their children or a amongst parents and their children or a trusted a trusted adult um uh who's trusted a trusted adult um uh who's trusted a trusted adult um uh who's caring for a child who's anxious. Um I caring for a child who's anxious. Um I caring for a child who's anxious. Um I think yes, we are having so many more think yes, we are having so many more think yes, we are having so many more conversations about anxiety. We know conversations about anxiety. We know conversations about anxiety. We know it's on the rise in children, especially it's on the rise in children, especially it's on the rise in children, especially young girls, um as well, kind of young girls, um as well, kind of young girls, um as well, kind of depending upon the age. And for me, I I depending upon the age. And for me, I I depending upon the age. And for me, I I want I want to point people to Christ. I want I want to point people to Christ. I want I want to point people to Christ. I want to point them to our hope um and want to point them to our hope um and want to point them to our hope um and the helps that we have as well. Even as the helps that we have as well. Even as the helps that we have as well. Even as I mentioned like breathing techniques I mentioned like breathing techniques I mentioned like breathing techniques and nature there beautiful helps that we and nature there beautiful helps that we and nature there beautiful helps that we have that we can make use of. I think have that we can make use of. I think have that we can make use of. I think for some parents they are afraid to for some parents they are afraid to for some parents they are afraid to acknowledge any worry that their child acknowledge any worry that their child acknowledge any worry that their child might be dealing with because um you might be dealing with because um you might be dealing with because um you know acknowledging it it's like well know acknowledging it it's like well know acknowledging it it's like well what does that mean you know or if there what does that mean you know or if there what does that mean you know or if there is a label kind of placed on the child is a label kind of placed on the child is a label kind of placed on the child what does that mean? Um I would say to what does that mean? Um I would say to what does that mean? Um I would say to avoid that fear you want to offer help avoid that fear you want to offer help avoid that fear you want to offer help for your child but then also avoid the for your child but then also avoid the for your child but then also avoid the other extreme which is that anxiety or other extreme which is that anxiety or other extreme which is that anxiety or worry has to be their entire identity.

worry has to be their entire identity. worry has to be their entire identity. So that's a big conversation as well. So that's a big conversation as well. So that's a big conversation as well. And and so I'm like avoid that as well. And and so I'm like avoid that as well. And and so I'm like avoid that as well. You know, as believers, as young sheep You know, as believers, as young sheep You know, as believers, as young sheep of God, you know, our primary primary of God, you know, our primary primary of God, you know, our primary primary identity is that we we belong to the identity is that we we belong to the identity is that we we belong to the Lord, you know, and so even I had a Lord, you know, and so even I had a Lord, you know, and so even I had a label, you know, generalized anxiety label, you know, generalized anxiety label, you know, generalized anxiety disorder, but the truth is I don't have disorder, but the truth is I don't have disorder, but the truth is I don't have that label anymore, right? So if that that label anymore, right? So if that that label anymore, right? So if that became my identity and the Lord decided became my identity and the Lord decided became my identity and the Lord decided to change my identity, that would have to change my identity, that would have to change my identity, that would have been a hard, right? But we use that been a hard, right? But we use that been a hard, right? But we use that maybe identity or that label to get the maybe identity or that label to get the maybe identity or that label to get the resources needed. Uh not to put a stamp resources needed. Uh not to put a stamp resources needed. Uh not to put a stamp to say this is who you always will be. to say this is who you always will be. to say this is who you always will be. So um so yeah, So um so yeah, So um so yeah, >> I love how you give those two kind of >> I love how you give those two kind of >> I love how you give those two kind of ditches we may fall into, you know, and ditches we may fall into, you know, and ditches we may fall into, you know, and it it's always good to just be reminded it it's always good to just be reminded it it's always good to just be reminded because sometimes if we say, "Oh, this because sometimes if we say, "Oh, this because sometimes if we say, "Oh, this is who my child is." we might is who my child is." we might is who my child is." we might unintentionally feed more anxiety, you unintentionally feed more anxiety, you unintentionally feed more anxiety, you know, and allow it to almost uh just be know, and allow it to almost uh just be know, and allow it to almost uh just be something that we expect, you know, but something that we expect, you know, but something that we expect, you know, but but then or if we just try to cover it but then or if we just try to cover it but then or if we just try to cover it up. Um and that could just create this up. Um and that could just create this up. Um and that could just create this shame in the child of oh, I'm just going shame in the child of oh, I'm just going shame in the child of oh, I'm just going to have to try to hide it or something.

to have to try to hide it or something. to have to try to hide it or something. I mean, I just love how you give those I mean, I just love how you give those I mean, I just love how you give those two things to to just be aware of. And two things to to just be aware of. And two things to to just be aware of. And in some ways, it goes back to exactly in some ways, it goes back to exactly in some ways, it goes back to exactly what you were saying with a friend. what you were saying with a friend. what you were saying with a friend. Listen and walk alongside. I mean and Listen and walk alongside. I mean and Listen and walk alongside. I mean and and I think as parents like we can't and I think as parents like we can't and I think as parents like we can't solve um our children's struggles. We solve um our children's struggles. We solve um our children's struggles. We walk alongside and we can listen and we walk alongside and we can listen and we walk alongside and we can listen and we can provide wisdom. You just all the can provide wisdom. You just all the can provide wisdom. You just all the things that you said provide helpful things that you said provide helpful things that you said provide helpful tools. But I love that now we have the tools. But I love that now we have the tools. But I love that now we have the tool of this book because that is it's tool of this book because that is it's tool of this book because that is it's just a great place to even start the just a great place to even start the just a great place to even start the conversation and even start the conversation and even start the conversation and even start the conversation to hey these are ways to conversation to hey these are ways to conversation to hey these are ways to get help. So again, um, thank you for get help. So again, um, thank you for get help. So again, um, thank you for taking this place, um, this journey that taking this place, um, this journey that taking this place, um, this journey that I'm sure you never wanted to walk I'm sure you never wanted to walk I'm sure you never wanted to walk through. through. through. >> And what I just see is the Lord >> And what I just see is the Lord >> And what I just see is the Lord redeeming it in such a beautiful way, redeeming it in such a beautiful way, redeeming it in such a beautiful way, like using this painful part of your like using this painful part of your like using this painful part of your story and yet he's bringing life for story and yet he's bringing life for story and yet he's bringing life for other people through it as they can just other people through it as they can just other people through it as they can just hear your wisdom and even allow it to to hear your wisdom and even allow it to to hear your wisdom and even allow it to to go into a children's book. because I'm go into a children's book. because I'm go into a children's book. because I'm sure this children's book will not just sure this children's book will not just sure this children's book will not just uh minister to children, it will uh minister to children, it will uh minister to children, it will probably minister to parents who might probably minister to parents who might probably minister to parents who might read it and feel anxious themselves read it and feel anxious themselves read it and feel anxious themselves about a lot of things and sometimes I about a lot of things and sometimes I about a lot of things and sometimes I think I'm maybe on a first grade reading think I'm maybe on a first grade reading think I'm maybe on a first grade reading level. So I really learn a lot from kids level. So I really learn a lot from kids level. So I really learn a lot from kids books and books and books and >> so I like that. Um well let me just >> so I like that. Um well let me just >> so I like that. Um well let me just close with this question. Um because you close with this question. Um because you close with this question. Um because you say that anxiety became the best thing say that anxiety became the best thing say that anxiety became the best thing that ever happened to your faith. Can that ever happened to your faith. Can that ever happened to your faith. Can you just give us some hopeful you just give us some hopeful you just give us some hopeful encouragement for, you know, I just

encouragement for, you know, I just encouragement for, you know, I just think of all the people listening who think of all the people listening who think of all the people listening who struggle with this or love someone who struggle with this or love someone who struggle with this or love someone who who deeply struggles with this cuz it's who deeply struggles with this cuz it's who deeply struggles with this cuz it's a deep journey for someone walking with a deep journey for someone walking with a deep journey for someone walking with someone who's struggling with anxiety um someone who's struggling with anxiety um someone who's struggling with anxiety um or walking themselves with it. So, so or walking themselves with it. So, so or walking themselves with it. So, so how how can we be hopeful in the midst how how can we be hopeful in the midst how how can we be hopeful in the midst of it? of it? of it? >> Yeah. You know, I I say I had an >> Yeah. You know, I I say I had an >> Yeah. You know, I I say I had an opportunity to be on a prayer call with opportunity to be on a prayer call with opportunity to be on a prayer call with Johnny Ericson. Ada kind of in the thick Johnny Ericson. Ada kind of in the thick Johnny Ericson. Ada kind of in the thick of my anxious journey and she prayed to of my anxious journey and she prayed to of my anxious journey and she prayed to God and she asked God for something I God and she asked God for something I God and she asked God for something I never heard anyone ask for prior to never heard anyone ask for prior to never heard anyone ask for prior to that. She asked God as we were preparing that. She asked God as we were preparing that. She asked God as we were preparing for this conference for the ability to for this conference for the ability to for this conference for the ability to breathe. And the reason that struck me breathe. And the reason that struck me breathe. And the reason that struck me is because anyone who deals with is because anyone who deals with is because anyone who deals with anxiety, you know, you can struggle to anxiety, you know, you can struggle to anxiety, you know, you can struggle to catch your breath, to find your breath. catch your breath, to find your breath. catch your breath, to find your breath. Um, but it helped me to see not many Um, but it helped me to see not many Um, but it helped me to see not many people will ask for this, but there's a people will ask for this, but there's a people will ask for this, but there's a level of dependence that she has because level of dependence that she has because level of dependence that she has because of her affliction. Uh, for those that of her affliction. Uh, for those that of her affliction. Uh, for those that maybe aren't familiar with her story, maybe aren't familiar with her story, maybe aren't familiar with her story, she's a quadripollegic, has been since she's a quadripollegic, has been since she's a quadripollegic, has been since she was 17 years old. I believe she's she was 17 years old. I believe she's she was 17 years old. I believe she's had two bouts of cancer. Um, so has had had two bouts of cancer. Um, so has had had two bouts of cancer. Um, so has had extensive suffering in her life and yet extensive suffering in her life and yet extensive suffering in her life and yet is such a source of encouragement to the is such a source of encouragement to the is such a source of encouragement to the church. Um, and so that taught me the church. Um, and so that taught me the church. Um, and so that taught me the blessing of weakness, the blessing of blessing of weakness, the blessing of blessing of weakness, the blessing of dependence, um, of seeing even our dependence, um, of seeing even our dependence, um, of seeing even our suffering, our affliction, our anxiety.

suffering, our affliction, our anxiety. suffering, our affliction, our anxiety. Um, you may not be dealing with anxiety, Um, you may not be dealing with anxiety, Um, you may not be dealing with anxiety, but even if it's depression, whatever but even if it's depression, whatever but even if it's depression, whatever the suffering is, it really can be a the suffering is, it really can be a the suffering is, it really can be a portal to a person to clinging to Christ portal to a person to clinging to Christ portal to a person to clinging to Christ in the midst of it and to knowing that in the midst of it and to knowing that in the midst of it and to knowing that he's near in a way that maybe you would he's near in a way that maybe you would he's near in a way that maybe you would not have known had you not experienced not have known had you not experienced not have known had you not experienced the hardship that you are facing. Um, the hardship that you are facing. Um, the hardship that you are facing. Um, and so that's why I say anxiety became and so that's why I say anxiety became and so that's why I say anxiety became the best thing that ever happened to me the best thing that ever happened to me the best thing that ever happened to me because even as I was beginning to come because even as I was beginning to come because even as I was beginning to come out of that season, I remember looking out of that season, I remember looking out of that season, I remember looking uh well talking to the Lord and I said, uh well talking to the Lord and I said, uh well talking to the Lord and I said, "Lord, even if you fully bring me out, "Lord, even if you fully bring me out, "Lord, even if you fully bring me out, if you completely heal me from this, do if you completely heal me from this, do if you completely heal me from this, do not let me lose what you've taught me. not let me lose what you've taught me. not let me lose what you've taught me. Do not let me lose the dependence upon Do not let me lose the dependence upon Do not let me lose the dependence upon you." Um, you know, and and so that's you." Um, you know, and and so that's you." Um, you know, and and so that's been my prayer. Um, and I'm thankful for been my prayer. Um, and I'm thankful for been my prayer. Um, and I'm thankful for our sister Johnny for kind of opening up our sister Johnny for kind of opening up our sister Johnny for kind of opening up and helping me see, you know, there's and helping me see, you know, there's and helping me see, you know, there's nothing what we would say is, you know, nothing what we would say is, you know, nothing what we would say is, you know, a small thing to pray for. No, we all a small thing to pray for. No, we all a small thing to pray for. No, we all need God to breathe. We need God to do need God to breathe. We need God to do need God to breathe. We need God to do anything that we're doing right now in anything that we're doing right now in anything that we're doing right now in this moment. Um, and so to know he's this moment. Um, and so to know he's this moment. Um, and so to know he's here and we can depend upon him, that's here and we can depend upon him, that's here and we can depend upon him, that's a good thing. Anything that draws you to a good thing. Anything that draws you to a good thing. Anything that draws you to the goodness of God and to the the goodness of God and to the the goodness of God and to the dependence of God, we have to know it's dependence of God, we have to know it's dependence of God, we have to know it's a good thing. That's right. And I'm a good thing. That's right. And I'm a good thing. That's right. And I'm going to botch and butcher this saying, going to botch and butcher this saying, going to botch and butcher this saying, but what is it? Blessed be the wave that but what is it? Blessed be the wave that but what is it? Blessed be the wave that casts me on the rock of Christ. That's casts me on the rock of Christ. That's casts me on the rock of Christ. That's not it exactly. And I don't even know not it exactly. And I don't even know not it exactly. And I don't even know who to attribute it to right now.

who to attribute it to right now. who to attribute it to right now. >> It is quoted in the book. Um it's often >> It is quoted in the book. Um it's often >> It is quoted in the book. Um it's often attributed to Spurgeon. I quote it in attributed to Spurgeon. I quote it in attributed to Spurgeon. I quote it in the book. Yeah. the book. Yeah. the book. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> That cast you on the rock of ages. Yeah. >> That cast you on the rock of ages. Yeah. >> That cast you on the rock of ages. Yeah. >> Yes. I mean, blessed be the wave. And so >> Yes. I mean, blessed be the wave. And so >> Yes. I mean, blessed be the wave. And so to be able to see any type of suffering to be able to see any type of suffering to be able to see any type of suffering through the lens of what it's actually through the lens of what it's actually through the lens of what it's actually doing, like I think I liked how you said doing, like I think I liked how you said doing, like I think I liked how you said a portal to a person. Um you know that a portal to a person. Um you know that a portal to a person. Um you know that it is it is the thing that can cause us it is it is the thing that can cause us it is it is the thing that can cause us to call out to cling to cry for um to call out to cling to cry for um to call out to cling to cry for um Christ. And so blessed be the wave. Um Christ. And so blessed be the wave. Um Christ. And so blessed be the wave. Um what a what a beautiful testimony, what a what a beautiful testimony, what a what a beautiful testimony, Blair. Well, I know Melissa said that Blair. Well, I know Melissa said that Blair. Well, I know Melissa said that was the last question, but I really want was the last question, but I really want was the last question, but I really want to end on a really fun one. So um we're to end on a really fun one. So um we're to end on a really fun one. So um we're going to ask one more. I know we like to going to ask one more. I know we like to going to ask one more. I know we like to end on a we like to end on a fun one, end on a we like to end on a fun one, end on a we like to end on a fun one, but you mentioned in your book that um a but you mentioned in your book that um a but you mentioned in your book that um a study has shown that dance study has shown that dance study has shown that dance >> y >> y >> y >> is a surprisingly effective treatment >> is a surprisingly effective treatment >> is a surprisingly effective treatment for mental health. So, I don't know, for mental health. So, I don't know, for mental health. So, I don't know, this is probably a little known fact this is probably a little known fact this is probably a little known fact about me, but I absolutely love to about me, but I absolutely love to about me, but I absolutely love to dance. My dream is that I could do a Tik dance. My dream is that I could do a Tik dance. My dream is that I could do a Tik Tok dance sometime. Like, I really want Tok dance sometime. Like, I really want Tok dance sometime. Like, I really want to do that.

to do that. to do that. >> If you do it, Melissa has to do it with >> If you do it, Melissa has to do it with >> If you do it, Melissa has to do it with you. No, I Melissa won't do it. We you. No, I Melissa won't do it. We you. No, I Melissa won't do it. We barely got her on the dance floor at barely got her on the dance floor at barely got her on the dance floor at Yeah. But like I love to dance. Maybe Yeah. But like I love to dance. Maybe Yeah. But like I love to dance. Maybe the people around me don't. I I left one the people around me don't. I I left one the people around me don't. I I left one wedding and this older couple came up wedding and this older couple came up wedding and this older couple came up and they said, "We had so much fun and they said, "We had so much fun and they said, "We had so much fun watching you on the dance floor. watching you on the dance floor. watching you on the dance floor. >> I don't think it was because I was so >> I don't think it was because I was so >> I don't think it was because I was so good." But I want to know. good." But I want to know. good." But I want to know. >> So, um I want to know, do you like to >> So, um I want to know, do you like to >> So, um I want to know, do you like to dance too, Blair? And what's your dance too, Blair? And what's your dance too, Blair? And what's your favorite type? favorite type? favorite type? >> Yes, I love to dance in private. I don't >> Yes, I love to dance in private. I don't >> Yes, I love to dance in private. I don't want people looking at me. want people looking at me. want people looking at me. Um I think as I get older, I'm embracing Um I think as I get older, I'm embracing Um I think as I get older, I'm embracing the fact that I'm more and more of an the fact that I'm more and more of an the fact that I'm more and more of an introvert, you know. Um but one time I introvert, you know. Um but one time I introvert, you know. Um but one time I did dance on the beach at night. I was did dance on the beach at night. I was did dance on the beach at night. I was um it's a group of friends and it was um it's a group of friends and it was um it's a group of friends and it was the moon was out so we had a little the moon was out so we had a little the moon was out so we had a little light and we just dance and dance and it light and we just dance and dance and it light and we just dance and dance and it was so much fun. Um so but if I had to was so much fun. Um so but if I had to was so much fun. Um so but if I had to choose a dance style, it would be choose a dance style, it would be choose a dance style, it would be hip-hop dance. That would be my That hip-hop dance. That would be my That hip-hop dance. That would be my That would be my jam.

would be my jam. would be my jam. >> Oh, get it. Not that I'm good. No, not >> Oh, get it. Not that I'm good. No, not >> Oh, get it. Not that I'm good. No, not that I'm good. You know what I'm saying? that I'm good. You know what I'm saying? that I'm good. You know what I'm saying? It's like the difference between making It's like the difference between making It's like the difference between making a joyful noise and like having an actual a joyful noise and like having an actual a joyful noise and like having an actual voice and what? Dancing before the Lord voice and what? Dancing before the Lord voice and what? Dancing before the Lord and actually being like skilled. Uh, but and actually being like skilled. Uh, but and actually being like skilled. Uh, but >> those are not the same thing and that's >> those are not the same thing and that's >> those are not the same thing and that's okay. That is okay. But I love that okay. That is okay. But I love that okay. That is okay. But I love that dance is a surprisingly effective dance is a surprisingly effective dance is a surprisingly effective treatment for all of our mental health treatment for all of our mental health treatment for all of our mental health struggles. So, may we all dance our way struggles. So, may we all dance our way struggles. So, may we all dance our way into into joy and healing and wholeness. into into joy and healing and wholeness. into into joy and healing and wholeness. But friends, uh we do hope that you've But friends, uh we do hope that you've But friends, uh we do hope that you've been encouraged by this episode of The been encouraged by this episode of The been encouraged by this episode of The Deep Dish. And I just want to say again, Deep Dish. And I just want to say again, Deep Dish. And I just want to say again, Blair, thank you for sharing just your Blair, thank you for sharing just your Blair, thank you for sharing just your story, like sharing your life with us. story, like sharing your life with us. story, like sharing your life with us. You didn't just share the gospel, you You didn't just share the gospel, you You didn't just share the gospel, you shared your very life. And we are shared your very life. And we are shared your very life. And we are grateful for that. And I and if you're grateful for that. And I and if you're grateful for that. And I and if you're listening and you either struggle with listening and you either struggle with listening and you either struggle with anxiety or you love somebody who does, anxiety or you love somebody who does, anxiety or you love somebody who does, not only do we recommend getting Blair's not only do we recommend getting Blair's not only do we recommend getting Blair's book on this um but but share this book on this um but but share this book on this um but but share this episode and our prayer is that it will episode and our prayer is that it will episode and our prayer is that it will it will help all of us cling to Christ.

it will help all of us cling to Christ. it will help all of us cling to Christ. Um so we'll see you next time on the Um so we'll see you next time on the Um so we'll see you next time on the deep dish.