Remembering Death Teaches Us to Live [The Deep Dish - Ep. 29]

We can bank on the fact that [music] We can bank on the fact that [music] someday this will make sense what was at someday this will make sense what was at someday this will make sense what was at stake and he is going to outgive us more stake and he is going to outgive us more stake and he is going to outgive us more than we can [music] fathom for whatever than we can [music] fathom for whatever than we can [music] fathom for whatever we lose here. Right? If you give up we lose here. Right? If you give up we lose here. Right? If you give up homes and fields and parents and homes and fields and parents and homes and fields and parents and children, [music] he will give a 100 children, [music] he will give a 100 children, [music] he will give a 100 times over in this life and the next. times over in this life and the next. times over in this life and the next. And so we bank on that. And so we bank on that. And so we bank on that. [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor and today I truths. I am Courtney Doctor and today I truths. I am Courtney Doctor and today I am joined by Colleen Cow. And Melissa am joined by Colleen Cow. And Melissa am joined by Colleen Cow. And Melissa and I heard Colleen's story at the 2025 and I heard Colleen's story at the 2025 and I heard Colleen's story at the 2025 True Woman Conference. And we were so True Woman Conference. And we were so True Woman Conference. And we were so moved and so deeply encouraged by her moved and so deeply encouraged by her moved and so deeply encouraged by her that we knew we wanted to ask and see if that we knew we wanted to ask and see if that we knew we wanted to ask and see if we could share her and her story with we could share her and her story with we could share her and her story with the listeners of the deep dish. And the listeners of the deep dish. And the listeners of the deep dish. And Colleen, you're going to tell us your Colleen, you're going to tell us your Colleen, you're going to tell us your story here in a minute. And it's not story here in a minute. And it's not story here in a minute. And it's not it's not an easy one, but what you're it's not an easy one, but what you're it's not an easy one, but what you're doing is you're walking it in such a way doing is you're walking it in such a way doing is you're walking it in such a way that you are you're showing us you're that you are you're showing us you're that you are you're showing us you're showing really all of us how to trust showing really all of us how to trust showing really all of us how to trust God in all things, which I think is at God in all things, which I think is at God in all things, which I think is at the foundation of the Christian life. I the foundation of the Christian life. I the foundation of the Christian life. I think that that is what the Lord wants think that that is what the Lord wants think that that is what the Lord wants from us more than anything else is this from us more than anything else is this from us more than anything else is this ability to truly trust him. And so you ability to truly trust him. And so you ability to truly trust him. And so you are you're showing us that. And so I I are you're showing us that. And so I I are you're showing us that. And so I I just was telling you before we hit just was telling you before we hit just was telling you before we hit record what a privilege it is to have record what a privilege it is to have record what a privilege it is to have you on to learn from you and I'm just

you on to learn from you and I'm just you on to learn from you and I'm just deeply grateful that you are willing to deeply grateful that you are willing to deeply grateful that you are willing to share yourself with us. And so would you share yourself with us. And so would you share yourself with us. And so would you just start by by telling us your story? just start by by telling us your story? just start by by telling us your story? >> Oh yes with joy. And it is it's such a >> Oh yes with joy. And it is it's such a >> Oh yes with joy. And it is it's such a joy to share this time with you. Um I'll joy to share this time with you. Um I'll joy to share this time with you. Um I'll just start from singleness. There's a just start from singleness. There's a just start from singleness. There's a long story if I started way back, but long story if I started way back, but long story if I started way back, but the Lord captured my heart when I was the Lord captured my heart when I was the Lord captured my heart when I was little. Um, and long story, but I ended little. Um, and long story, but I ended little. Um, and long story, but I ended up single much longer than I'd thought up single much longer than I'd thought up single much longer than I'd thought and then had um an amazing love story and then had um an amazing love story and then had um an amazing love story that God brought me in my mid-30s and we that God brought me in my mid-30s and we that God brought me in my mid-30s and we had a child and right around that time had a child and right around that time had a child and right around that time my health started just struggling big my health started just struggling big my health started just struggling big time. lots of chronic illness issues and time. lots of chronic illness issues and time. lots of chronic illness issues and then my son was also born with a lot of then my son was also born with a lot of then my son was also born with a lot of complications, health complications. Um, complications, health complications. Um, complications, health complications. Um, so that was a long journey and about six so that was a long journey and about six so that was a long journey and about six years into that we had this little space years into that we had this little space years into that we had this little space in our parenting marriage where Jeremy in our parenting marriage where Jeremy in our parenting marriage where Jeremy and I were both feeling good and we were and I were both feeling good and we were and I were both feeling good and we were like maybe we're going to get back to like maybe we're going to get back to like maybe we're going to get back to some whatever normal is some whatever normal is some whatever normal is >> some normaly and um back to ministry >> some normaly and um back to ministry >> some normaly and um back to ministry which has always been my heart and just which has always been my heart and just which has always been my heart and just there was a lot of hopefulness at the there was a lot of hopefulness at the there was a lot of hopefulness at the end of those six weeks I found a little end of those six weeks I found a little end of those six weeks I found a little lump in my right breast rest. And I just lump in my right breast rest. And I just lump in my right breast rest. And I just I remember I was in the shower and I I I remember I was in the shower and I I I remember I was in the shower and I I just washed and I was like, "Lord, just washed and I was like, "Lord, just washed and I was like, "Lord, there's no way, right?" Like, after what there's no way, right?" Like, after what there's no way, right?" Like, after what we've just been through, there's no way we've just been through, there's no way we've just been through, there's no way [laughter] that this is something more [laughter] that this is something more [laughter] that this is something more than just a fluke. Um but indeed, after

than just a fluke. Um but indeed, after than just a fluke. Um but indeed, after a long testing process, we found that it a long testing process, we found that it a long testing process, we found that it was cancer. That was 8 years ago. And was cancer. That was 8 years ago. And was cancer. That was 8 years ago. And went through the whole um chemo, double went through the whole um chemo, double went through the whole um chemo, double mastctomy, multiple surgeries, all the mastctomy, multiple surgeries, all the mastctomy, multiple surgeries, all the things. Thought we'd gotten that cancer. things. Thought we'd gotten that cancer. things. Thought we'd gotten that cancer. And then a couple years later, um, found And then a couple years later, um, found And then a couple years later, um, found another little lump and then found out another little lump and then found out another little lump and then found out that it was back and it was all over and that it was back and it was all over and that it was back and it was all over and it was stage 4. And that's been the last it was stage 4. And that's been the last it was stage 4. And that's been the last four years. I didn't know that I would I four years. I didn't know that I would I four years. I didn't know that I would I didn't think that I would live out that didn't think that I would live out that didn't think that I would live out that first year, the way things were first year, the way things were first year, the way things were progressing and the the look of it all. progressing and the the look of it all. progressing and the the look of it all. But God has given me the gift of more But God has given me the gift of more But God has given me the gift of more days. And it is just it's incredible to days. And it is just it's incredible to days. And it is just it's incredible to still be here to even share this story. still be here to even share this story. still be here to even share this story. So, um, it's been long and crazy and all So, um, it's been long and crazy and all So, um, it's been long and crazy and all the ups and downs. Um, and I'm living in the ups and downs. Um, and I'm living in the ups and downs. Um, and I'm living in that fragile place between here and that fragile place between here and that fragile place between here and heaven. The the thin edge razor is edge. heaven. The the thin edge razor is edge. heaven. The the thin edge razor is edge. Some toes in eternity, but a foot still Some toes in eternity, but a foot still Some toes in eternity, but a foot still firmly planted here. So, firmly planted here. So, firmly planted here. So, >> that's that's the summary. [laughter] >> that's that's the summary. [laughter] >> that's that's the summary. [laughter] >> Well, I mean, and what what a summary.

>> Well, I mean, and what what a summary. >> Well, I mean, and what what a summary. So, tell us how old your son is now. So, tell us how old your son is now. So, tell us how old your son is now. He's precious, by the way. See? Oh, they He's precious, by the way. See? Oh, they He's precious, by the way. See? Oh, they I I'm biased, but I I'm biased, but I I'm biased, but >> yes, [laughter] exactly. You should be. >> yes, [laughter] exactly. You should be. >> yes, [laughter] exactly. You should be. You should be. But he is objectively You should be. But he is objectively You should be. But he is objectively objectively precious. objectively precious. objectively precious. >> Oh, he is a gift. And he's kind of that >> Oh, he is a gift. And he's kind of that >> Oh, he is a gift. And he's kind of that miracle baby. It's I wanted more, but miracle baby. It's I wanted more, but miracle baby. It's I wanted more, but God had one special guy. God had one special guy. God had one special guy. >> Um he's made up for it all. And he was >> Um he's made up for it all. And he was >> Um he's made up for it all. And he was nine when I got my terminal diagnosis, nine when I got my terminal diagnosis, nine when I got my terminal diagnosis, almost 10, and he just turned 14 this almost 10, and he just turned 14 this almost 10, and he just turned 14 this summer. It's just a miracle. Like I just summer. It's just a miracle. Like I just summer. It's just a miracle. Like I just I find myself looking at him like I I find myself looking at him like I I find myself looking at him like I can't believe I'm still here for this can't believe I'm still here for this can't believe I'm still here for this amazing transformation into the teens. amazing transformation into the teens. amazing transformation into the teens. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Praise God. Well, I I know that we want Praise God. Well, I I know that we want Praise God. Well, I I know that we want to get into just even trusting God with to get into just even trusting God with to get into just even trusting God with our children, but before we get there, I our children, but before we get there, I our children, but before we get there, I mean, just trusting God, right? Just mean, just trusting God, right? Just mean, just trusting God, right? Just trusting God in all things um is like I trusting God in all things um is like I trusting God in all things um is like I truly believe the the pinnacle of of the truly believe the the pinnacle of of the truly believe the the pinnacle of of the Christian walk. And so you're you're Christian walk. And so you're you're Christian walk. And so you're you're doing this and you just said in your doing this and you just said in your doing this and you just said in your story like you're standing on this story like you're standing on this story like you're standing on this razor's edge and so you know where razor's edge and so you know where razor's edge and so you know where Colossians tells us to set our minds on Colossians tells us to set our minds on Colossians tells us to set our minds on things that are above things that are above things that are above >> and you're standing on the razor's edge >> and you're standing on the razor's edge >> and you're standing on the razor's edge looking at the things that are looking at the things that are looking at the things that are [laughter] above. I really I love that [laughter] above. I really I love that [laughter] above. I really I love that image of of maybe possibly seeing it image of of maybe possibly seeing it image of of maybe possibly seeing it more clearly. Um I don't know but I more clearly. Um I don't know but I more clearly. Um I don't know but I would love for you to to talk to us would love for you to to talk to us would love for you to to talk to us about that. like how how has that about that. like how how has that about that. like how how has that happened that you have been able to set happened that you have been able to set happened that you have been able to set your mind on things that are above? And your mind on things that are above? And your mind on things that are above? And and I think the question everybody would and I think the question everybody would and I think the question everybody would ask is how did it increase your joy and

ask is how did it increase your joy and ask is how did it increase your joy and your faith and your trust instead of your faith and your trust instead of your faith and your trust instead of increasing your bitterness and your increasing your bitterness and your increasing your bitterness and your resentment? resentment? resentment? >> Oh my goodness. And there are those >> Oh my goodness. And there are those >> Oh my goodness. And there are those constant temptations to go that route, constant temptations to go that route, constant temptations to go that route, right? Um that's just in our humanity. right? Um that's just in our humanity. right? Um that's just in our humanity. Um, and the the simple overarching Um, and the the simple overarching Um, and the the simple overarching answer is Jesus is so faithful and he's answer is Jesus is so faithful and he's answer is Jesus is so faithful and he's just been so good to me and he's always just been so good to me and he's always just been so good to me and he's always outgiven me. He's not cheated me. The outgiven me. He's not cheated me. The outgiven me. He's not cheated me. The the bigger answer is it's a slow the bigger answer is it's a slow the bigger answer is it's a slow process, right, of um I I was the process, right, of um I I was the process, right, of um I I was the pastor's kid, firstborn type A, pastor's kid, firstborn type A, pastor's kid, firstborn type A, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] I'm going to change the world for Jesus I'm going to change the world for Jesus I'm going to change the world for Jesus woman, right? Right. So, I held I was woman, right? Right. So, I held I was woman, right? Right. So, I held I was like, "This is what I'm going to do." like, "This is what I'm going to do." like, "This is what I'm going to do." And my fists were clenched in out of And my fists were clenched in out of And my fists were clenched in out of good intentions, but um God just used so good intentions, but um God just used so good intentions, but um God just used so many crushings over so many years, many crushings over so many years, many crushings over so many years, beginning in my 20s, to start, you know, beginning in my 20s, to start, you know, beginning in my 20s, to start, you know, prying those white knuckled fingers off prying those white knuckled fingers off prying those white knuckled fingers off these little earth treasures. And I these little earth treasures. And I these little earth treasures. And I think that that moment of hearing, I think that that moment of hearing, I think that that moment of hearing, I don't have many days. And again, I don't have many days. And again, I don't have many days. And again, I thought it was going to be really fast thought it was going to be really fast thought it was going to be really fast at the beginning. Um, and it could be at the beginning. Um, and it could be at the beginning. Um, and it could be any moment now, which is so strange um any moment now, which is so strange um any moment now, which is so strange um to live in that for several years. But to live in that for several years. But to live in that for several years. But what that does is it really does release what that does is it really does release what that does is it really does release me from some of those idols. And um I'm me from some of those idols. And um I'm me from some of those idols. And um I'm just naturally a self-sufficient, proud just naturally a self-sufficient, proud just naturally a self-sufficient, proud person. But when you know that you

person. But when you know that you person. But when you know that you you're dispensable, [laughter] you're dispensable, [laughter] you're dispensable, [laughter] >> um it really takes the gaze off of me >> um it really takes the gaze off of me >> um it really takes the gaze off of me and the circumstances and puts them on and the circumstances and puts them on and the circumstances and puts them on Jesus and what lasts and what matters. Jesus and what lasts and what matters. Jesus and what lasts and what matters. >> And so that trust is formed in the hard >> And so that trust is formed in the hard >> And so that trust is formed in the hard places because I'm clinging to Jesus and places because I'm clinging to Jesus and places because I'm clinging to Jesus and I'm looking at him and I'm going back to I'm looking at him and I'm going back to I'm looking at him and I'm going back to him and I'm looking at him and I'm him and I'm looking at him and I'm him and I'm looking at him and I'm clinging and I'm in his word for dear clinging and I'm in his word for dear clinging and I'm in his word for dear life. life. life. >> Um where else would I go? you have the >> Um where else would I go? you have the >> Um where else would I go? you have the words of life and um so that tr that words of life and um so that tr that words of life and um so that tr that trust has been germinating and steeping trust has been germinating and steeping trust has been germinating and steeping however you want to say it through um however you want to say it through um however you want to say it through um his tender mercies to make me relinquish his tender mercies to make me relinquish his tender mercies to make me relinquish and just say I don't control anything I and just say I don't control anything I and just say I don't control anything I can't control a day [laughter] right so can't control a day [laughter] right so can't control a day [laughter] right so in some ways you're living with the the in some ways you're living with the the in some ways you're living with the the clearer reality that is true for all of clearer reality that is true for all of clearer reality that is true for all of us it's just maybe we can push it down us it's just maybe we can push it down us it's just maybe we can push it down or deny it when it's not right in our or deny it when it's not right in our or deny it when it's not right in our face. Well, I I taught on um well, John face. Well, I I taught on um well, John face. Well, I I taught on um well, John 10, Jesus is the good shepherd last 10, Jesus is the good shepherd last 10, Jesus is the good shepherd last year. And as I was preparing, I was year. And as I was preparing, I was year. And as I was preparing, I was really studying Psalm 23 and one of the really studying Psalm 23 and one of the really studying Psalm 23 and one of the scholars, one of the pastors that I was scholars, one of the pastors that I was scholars, one of the pastors that I was studying said talking about the valley studying said talking about the valley studying said talking about the valley of the shadow of death. And he said, of the shadow of death. And he said, of the shadow of death. And he said, "The closer or the darker the shadow, "The closer or the darker the shadow, "The closer or the darker the shadow, the closer the shepherd." And have you the closer the shepherd." And have you the closer the shepherd." And have you experienced that to be true? Because experienced that to be true? Because experienced that to be true? Because it's not just the shadow of death. We go it's not just the shadow of death. We go it's not just the shadow of death. We go through a lot of different dark shadows through a lot of different dark shadows through a lot of different dark shadows in life. And so, how have you in life. And so, how have you in life. And so, how have you experienced like you're talking about

experienced like you're talking about experienced like you're talking about the nearness of Jesus and I would even the nearness of Jesus and I would even the nearness of Jesus and I would even say I would want our listeners to hear say I would want our listeners to hear say I would want our listeners to hear the realness of Jesus like the the the realness of Jesus like the the the realness of Jesus like the the reality of Jesus. Yes. reality of Jesus. Yes. reality of Jesus. Yes. >> And so, how have you experienced that? >> And so, how have you experienced that? >> And so, how have you experienced that? Like his nearness and his the reality Like his nearness and his the reality Like his nearness and his the reality that he's there um through this through that he's there um through this through that he's there um through this through this shadow. this shadow. this shadow. >> Yes. It's you know it goes back to Psalm >> Yes. It's you know it goes back to Psalm >> Yes. It's you know it goes back to Psalm 73. Some of my favorite verses are in 73. Some of my favorite verses are in 73. Some of my favorite verses are in that one where it says, "The nearness of that one where it says, "The nearness of that one where it says, "The nearness of God is my good." You know, what else do God is my good." You know, what else do God is my good." You know, what else do I have on earth, you know, in heaven? I have on earth, you know, in heaven? I have on earth, you know, in heaven? Nothing besides you. And so that was my Nothing besides you. And so that was my Nothing besides you. And so that was my terrible paraphrase, [laughter] terrible paraphrase, [laughter] terrible paraphrase, [laughter] but just like the nearness of God is my but just like the nearness of God is my but just like the nearness of God is my good. And I have it's been rubber meets good. And I have it's been rubber meets good. And I have it's been rubber meets the road fleshing that out. And I I've the road fleshing that out. And I I've the road fleshing that out. And I I've come to this um picture in my heart of come to this um picture in my heart of come to this um picture in my heart of the shadow of death is overshadowed by the shadow of death is overshadowed by the shadow of death is overshadowed by the shadow of his wings. And so what you the shadow of his wings. And so what you the shadow of his wings. And so what you said is so true just that said is so true just that said is so true just that >> the shepherd is so near and he he >> the shepherd is so near and he he >> the shepherd is so near and he he outdoes the heart. He he's bigger than outdoes the heart. He he's bigger than outdoes the heart. He he's bigger than the hard. He's stronger than the worst the hard. He's stronger than the worst the hard. He's stronger than the worst moments. He's so present. And I think moments. He's so present. And I think moments. He's so present. And I think for all of us, you know, cancer and for all of us, you know, cancer and for all of us, you know, cancer and terminal diagnoses don't have the corner terminal diagnoses don't have the corner terminal diagnoses don't have the corner on the market of suffering. I think with on the market of suffering. I think with on the market of suffering. I think with the suffering comes the grace. He's the suffering comes the grace. He's the suffering comes the grace. He's faithful. And so faithful. And so faithful. And so he with the amount of suffering comes he with the amount of suffering comes he with the amount of suffering comes this huge amount of grace that doesn't

this huge amount of grace that doesn't this huge amount of grace that doesn't make it easy. It doesn't take the pain make it easy. It doesn't take the pain make it easy. It doesn't take the pain out of it. But he he's more he's nearer. out of it. But he he's more he's nearer. out of it. But he he's more he's nearer. He's stronger. He's He's stronger. He's He's stronger. He's >> realer. More real. I know >> realer. More real. I know >> realer. More real. I know >> because because of what he is entrusting >> because because of what he is entrusting >> because because of what he is entrusting to each of us. He He comes with that to each of us. He He comes with that to each of us. He He comes with that suffering. It's an invitation into more suffering. It's an invitation into more suffering. It's an invitation into more of him. of him. of him. >> What you just said about the the shadow >> What you just said about the the shadow >> What you just said about the the shadow of death or the shadow of suffering is of death or the shadow of suffering is of death or the shadow of suffering is outdone. Is that what you said? I want outdone. Is that what you said? I want outdone. Is that what you said? I want you to say that again. By the shadow of you to say that again. By the shadow of you to say that again. By the shadow of his wings. his wings. his wings. >> Yes. Yes. It really is. He He It's a >> Yes. Yes. It really is. He He It's a >> Yes. Yes. It really is. He He It's a greater shadow and it's a safe one. greater shadow and it's a safe one. greater shadow and it's a safe one. >> Yes. Right. And so we can rest. we can >> Yes. Right. And so we can rest. we can >> Yes. Right. And so we can rest. we can trust even if we have fear, even if we trust even if we have fear, even if we trust even if we have fear, even if we have all these other emotions, the pain have all these other emotions, the pain have all these other emotions, the pain doesn't go away, it doesn't lessen. doesn't go away, it doesn't lessen. doesn't go away, it doesn't lessen. Sometimes it gets even harder. Um, but Sometimes it gets even harder. Um, but Sometimes it gets even harder. Um, but that that shadow of his wings is the that that shadow of his wings is the that that shadow of his wings is the best place to be. And the valley of the best place to be. And the valley of the best place to be. And the valley of the shadow is the way under that other shadow is the way under that other shadow is the way under that other bigger shadow, right? It's the way into bigger shadow, right? It's the way into bigger shadow, right? It's the way into more of him.

more of him. more of him. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's amazing. >> it's amazing. >> it's amazing. >> It is amazing. And that's such a >> It is amazing. And that's such a >> It is amazing. And that's such a beautiful way of even thinking about the beautiful way of even thinking about the beautiful way of even thinking about the shadow of our suffering being under this shadow of our suffering being under this shadow of our suffering being under this greater shadow of protection. Um, and greater shadow of protection. Um, and greater shadow of protection. Um, and that was that was really that was really that was that was really that was really that was that was really that was really beautiful. Well, again, I'm really beautiful. Well, again, I'm really beautiful. Well, again, I'm really captured by that that thought of just captured by that that thought of just captured by that that thought of just standing on the razor's edge between standing on the razor's edge between standing on the razor's edge between this life and and actually the one this life and and actually the one this life and and actually the one that's more real, the one that's that's more real, the one that's that's more real, the one that's eternal, the one that's eternal, the one that's eternal, the one that's >> totally >> totally >> totally >> uh not the shadow but the substance. And >> uh not the shadow but the substance. And >> uh not the shadow but the substance. And so when you when you peer over that edge so when you when you peer over that edge so when you when you peer over that edge um and you think about the the new um and you think about the the new um and you think about the the new heavens and the new earth, you think heavens and the new earth, you think heavens and the new earth, you think about what is to come um for all of us. about what is to come um for all of us. about what is to come um for all of us. For all of us um what what captivates For all of us um what what captivates For all of us um what what captivates you? What is exciting about that to you? you? What is exciting about that to you? you? What is exciting about that to you? Because that helps us untether a little Because that helps us untether a little Because that helps us untether a little bit, right? If we if we're more bit, right? If we if we're more bit, right? If we if we're more captivated, I think that's part of captivated, I think that's part of captivated, I think that's part of setting our minds on things that are setting our minds on things that are setting our minds on things that are above. So, what captivates you as you above. So, what captivates you as you above. So, what captivates you as you peer into that place? peer into that place? peer into that place? >> Yes. I think it's this idea that it's >> Yes. I think it's this idea that it's >> Yes. I think it's this idea that it's what I was made for. It's what I was what I was made for. It's what I was what I was made for. It's what I was always made for and that's where always made for and that's where always made for and that's where everything is good and everything gets everything is good and everything gets everything is good and everything gets fixed. And there's nothing there's not a fixed. And there's nothing there's not a fixed. And there's nothing there's not a hint of bad. It not a hint of sorrow.

hint of bad. It not a hint of sorrow. hint of bad. It not a hint of sorrow. Death doesn't threaten us anymore. It's Death doesn't threaten us anymore. It's Death doesn't threaten us anymore. It's it's the fullness of the presence of it's the fullness of the presence of it's the fullness of the presence of Jesus which is everything we want and Jesus which is everything we want and Jesus which is everything we want and crave, right? And so I think there's crave, right? And so I think there's crave, right? And so I think there's that that you know there's so much I that that you know there's so much I that that you know there's so much I love here and a especially a few people love here and a especially a few people love here and a especially a few people that I really love here and I don't want that I really love here and I don't want that I really love here and I don't want to go um early. You know, that's not to go um early. You know, that's not to go um early. You know, that's not that's not something I desire. that's not something I desire. that's not something I desire. But what it does is it it points me But what it does is it it points me But what it does is it it points me these little these smaller loves point these little these smaller loves point these little these smaller loves point me to this great love that is it's on me to this great love that is it's on me to this great love that is it's on the I'm on the brink of it of seeing the I'm on the brink of it of seeing the I'm on the brink of it of seeing face to face my first love who's been face to face my first love who's been face to face my first love who's been everything I've ever wanted or needed everything I've ever wanted or needed everything I've ever wanted or needed and the fullness is coming and the and the fullness is coming and the and the fullness is coming and the goodness is going to be so much that I goodness is going to be so much that I goodness is going to be so much that I will need a resurrected body to handle will need a resurrected body to handle will need a resurrected body to handle all of the goodness right [laughter] we all of the goodness right [laughter] we all of the goodness right [laughter] we can't handle it on this side of So just can't handle it on this side of So just can't handle it on this side of So just that anticipation, it's not boring. It's that anticipation, it's not boring. It's that anticipation, it's not boring. It's not clouds and harps. It's like not clouds and harps. It's like not clouds and harps. It's like >> it's it's everything we've ever wanted >> it's it's everything we've ever wanted >> it's it's everything we've ever wanted >> and been made for.

>> and been made for. >> and been made for. >> And the discovery aspect of it, like >> And the discovery aspect of it, like >> And the discovery aspect of it, like eternal exploration and discovery, not eternal exploration and discovery, not eternal exploration and discovery, not just of the creation, but of the just of the creation, but of the just of the creation, but of the creator. I mean, there's just totally creator. I mean, there's just totally creator. I mean, there's just totally there's so much like I I Yeah, I there's so much like I I Yeah, I there's so much like I I Yeah, I actually So, so when Psalm 9:12 tells us actually So, so when Psalm 9:12 tells us actually So, so when Psalm 9:12 tells us to teach us to number our days that we to teach us to number our days that we to teach us to number our days that we may gain a heart of wisdom, may gain a heart of wisdom, may gain a heart of wisdom, >> I think so often we read that thinking, >> I think so often we read that thinking, >> I think so often we read that thinking, yeah, I need to think about the fact yeah, I need to think about the fact yeah, I need to think about the fact that that one day, you know, one day my that that one day, you know, one day my that that one day, you know, one day my days will be limited. They will they days will be limited. They will they days will be limited. They will they will be numbered. They will end. And will be numbered. They will end. And will be numbered. They will end. And that's supposed to create in me this that's supposed to create in me this that's supposed to create in me this this thing, this heart of of wisdom. But this thing, this heart of of wisdom. But this thing, this heart of of wisdom. But h I mean you've you've looked that in h I mean you've you've looked that in h I mean you've you've looked that in the face more with more reality with the face more with more reality with the face more with more reality with more clarity than most of us. And so more clarity than most of us. And so more clarity than most of us. And so what how has that been true in your what how has that been true in your what how has that been true in your life? How has looking at the number of life? How has looking at the number of life? How has looking at the number of days and like you said I mean not cut days and like you said I mean not cut days and like you said I mean not cut short in God's timing but absolutely cut short in God's timing but absolutely cut short in God's timing but absolutely cut short in ours and in the desire of our short in ours and in the desire of our short in ours and in the desire of our hearts. And so what does that look like?

hearts. And so what does that look like? hearts. And so what does that look like? How has that created this heart of How has that created this heart of How has that created this heart of wisdom in you? because it's evident that wisdom in you? because it's evident that wisdom in you? because it's evident that it has. it has. it has. >> Oh, that's so kind of you cuz I see even >> Oh, that's so kind of you cuz I see even >> Oh, that's so kind of you cuz I see even this last week, I'm like I think the this last week, I'm like I think the this last week, I'm like I think the closer I get to eternity, the more I see closer I get to eternity, the more I see closer I get to eternity, the more I see my sin and my brokenness. Um, so it's a my sin and my brokenness. Um, so it's a my sin and my brokenness. Um, so it's a journey. It's a it's a slow and I'm a journey. It's a it's a slow and I'm a journey. It's a it's a slow and I'm a slow learner. But, um, but I think the slow learner. But, um, but I think the slow learner. But, um, but I think the freedom of realizing that I am a vapor freedom of realizing that I am a vapor freedom of realizing that I am a vapor >> and that my, you know, they the >> and that my, you know, they the >> and that my, you know, they the scripture has all these descriptions. scripture has all these descriptions. scripture has all these descriptions. One is a handspan, right? I'm I'm just a One is a handspan, right? I'm I'm just a One is a handspan, right? I'm I'm just a handsman and a few inches just a mere handsman and a few inches just a mere handsman and a few inches just a mere few inches of vapor grass that withers few inches of vapor grass that withers few inches of vapor grass that withers overnight, flowers that fade. I mean, overnight, flowers that fade. I mean, overnight, flowers that fade. I mean, >> it it's not depressing. It's freeing >> it it's not depressing. It's freeing >> it it's not depressing. It's freeing because I realize the glory of God to because I realize the glory of God to because I realize the glory of God to choose me and make me his own and love choose me and make me his own and love choose me and make me his own and love me and give me everything I need for me and give me everything I need for me and give me everything I need for life and godliness. This little vapor life and godliness. This little vapor life and godliness. This little vapor gives so much value, right? But it also gives so much value, right? But it also gives so much value, right? But it also keeps in perspective. I was just keeps in perspective. I was just keeps in perspective. I was just listening um I'll listen to my audio listening um I'll listen to my audio listening um I'll listen to my audio Bible in the night when I can't sleep in Bible in the night when I can't sleep in Bible in the night when I can't sleep in Psalm 102. It talks about our my Psalm 102. It talks about our my Psalm 102. It talks about our my strength has been broken midcourse. My strength has been broken midcourse. My strength has been broken midcourse. My days are shortened, but your years never days are shortened, but your years never days are shortened, but your years never end. And so there's this idea, this end. And so there's this idea, this end. And so there's this idea, this contrast when we get to kind of hold contrast when we get to kind of hold contrast when we get to kind of hold open-handed our days.

open-handed our days. open-handed our days. >> What that's supposed to do, and this is >> What that's supposed to do, and this is >> What that's supposed to do, and this is multiple places in scripture where multiple places in scripture where multiple places in scripture where that's the theme. It's supposed to put that's the theme. It's supposed to put that's the theme. It's supposed to put our eyes up to see God is eternal. He our eyes up to see God is eternal. He our eyes up to see God is eternal. He sits on his throne. It says again and sits on his throne. It says again and sits on his throne. It says again and again, he's on his throne. His years again, he's on his throne. His years again, he's on his throne. His years never end. Your word endures forever. never end. Your word endures forever. never end. Your word endures forever. Right? There all these places where that Right? There all these places where that Right? There all these places where that contrast is supposed to set us free. And contrast is supposed to set us free. And contrast is supposed to set us free. And that is my long answer to say that works that is my long answer to say that works that is my long answer to say that works wisdom in us wisdom in us wisdom in us >> because no longer are we looking to >> because no longer are we looking to >> because no longer are we looking to ourselves, our ministry success, our ourselves, our ministry success, our ourselves, our ministry success, our numbers, our influence on social, none numbers, our influence on social, none numbers, our influence on social, none of that. It's really this beautiful of that. It's really this beautiful of that. It's really this beautiful freedom of God, you can do whatever you freedom of God, you can do whatever you freedom of God, you can do whatever you want with me. And as we look to him want with me. And as we look to him want with me. And as we look to him whose years never end, who sits on the whose years never end, who sits on the whose years never end, who sits on the throne, he works wisdom in us. And I throne, he works wisdom in us. And I throne, he works wisdom in us. And I think that's it's the gaze, right? It's think that's it's the gaze, right? It's think that's it's the gaze, right? It's our gaze. our gaze. our gaze. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and untethering untethering the our and untethering untethering the our and untethering untethering the our hopes hopes hopes >> from the temporary things like they're >> from the temporary things like they're >> from the temporary things like they're they are fleeting but they feel so just they are fleeting but they feel so just they are fleeting but they feel so just even as you were talking about that and even as you were talking about that and even as you were talking about that and and reanchoring them in the hope that is and reanchoring them in the hope that is and reanchoring them in the hope that is eternal the hope that never ends like eternal the hope that never ends like eternal the hope that never ends like and to even think about that we say that and to even think about that we say that and to even think about that we say that so kind of lightly like this eternal so kind of lightly like this eternal so kind of lightly like this eternal hope but to really think about the fact hope but to really think about the fact hope but to really think about the fact that this this thing that we are hoping that this this thing that we are hoping that this this thing that we are hoping in actually is eternal and We're not I in actually is eternal and We're not I in actually is eternal and We're not I mean we will be Yes. Exactly. We are mean we will be Yes. Exactly. We are mean we will be Yes. Exactly. We are granted. We are granted. We are given in

granted. We are granted. We are given in granted. We are granted. We are given in Christ. Christ. Christ. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Uh eternality and that is um that is >> Uh eternality and that is um that is >> Uh eternality and that is um that is going to be a marvelous beautiful thing. going to be a marvelous beautiful thing. going to be a marvelous beautiful thing. But but the things that we so often But but the things that we so often But but the things that we so often tether our hearts to are temporary. tether our hearts to are temporary. tether our hearts to are temporary. >> I love how you say that. Yes. H Well, >> I love how you say that. Yes. H Well, >> I love how you say that. Yes. H Well, you're teaching me. But as I'm thinking you're teaching me. But as I'm thinking you're teaching me. But as I'm thinking about this, I know that we talked kind about this, I know that we talked kind about this, I know that we talked kind of a little bit about the bitterness and of a little bit about the bitterness and of a little bit about the bitterness and the frustration that could creep in, but the frustration that could creep in, but the frustration that could creep in, but also what do you do when you just you also what do you do when you just you also what do you do when you just you get discouraged or fearful when I think get discouraged or fearful when I think get discouraged or fearful when I think about Peter uh in getting into the water about Peter uh in getting into the water about Peter uh in getting into the water and you know like and you're just and you know like and you're just and you know like and you're just walking like you are doing it, Colleen. walking like you are doing it, Colleen. walking like you are doing it, Colleen. You're walking on water, but there have You're walking on water, but there have You're walking on water, but there have to be times there just have to be times to be times there just have to be times to be times there just have to be times that you feel the sinking. I mean, I that you feel the sinking. I mean, I that you feel the sinking. I mean, I just can't fathom not And so what do you just can't fathom not And so what do you just can't fathom not And so what do you do? What do you tell yourself? What like do? What do you tell yourself? What like do? What do you tell yourself? What like and actually practically like what do and actually practically like what do and actually practically like what do you do um to to refocus um your gaze? I you do um to to refocus um your gaze? I you do um to to refocus um your gaze? I love that question because there's um a love that question because there's um a love that question because there's um a lot of that. [laughter] lot of that. [laughter] lot of that. [laughter] I am I am nothing special. I don't have I am I am nothing special. I don't have I am I am nothing special. I don't have uh I don't have this figured out. It is uh I don't have this figured out. It is uh I don't have this figured out. It is a daily dependence of again it sounds so a daily dependence of again it sounds so a daily dependence of again it sounds so simple but just going to back to God.

simple but just going to back to God. simple but just going to back to God. going to God. Going to God. And um and I going to God. Going to God. And um and I going to God. Going to God. And um and I say go back to him. He's in us. He's say go back to him. He's in us. He's say go back to him. He's in us. He's surrounding us. He hymns us in behind surrounding us. He hymns us in behind surrounding us. He hymns us in behind him before. But that shifting of my gaze him before. But that shifting of my gaze him before. But that shifting of my gaze and my my heart posture is going back to and my my heart posture is going back to and my my heart posture is going back to him and clinging to his word. And him and clinging to his word. And him and clinging to his word. And really, it starts with me pouring out my really, it starts with me pouring out my really, it starts with me pouring out my heart like water before the Lord. I heart like water before the Lord. I heart like water before the Lord. I think that's Lamentations 21:19. And think that's Lamentations 21:19. And think that's Lamentations 21:19. And just no one else can handle the fullness just no one else can handle the fullness just no one else can handle the fullness of that. I need people. I need my of that. I need people. I need my of that. I need people. I need my people. But no one can handle the full people. But no one can handle the full people. But no one can handle the full measure of pouring out my heart like measure of pouring out my heart like measure of pouring out my heart like water in those fearful, discouraging water in those fearful, discouraging water in those fearful, discouraging moments. So he gets the first and the moments. So he gets the first and the moments. So he gets the first and the the fullest the fullest the fullest >> pouring. And so as I do that, >> pouring. And so as I do that, >> pouring. And so as I do that, >> what it's doing is it's it's weaving me >> what it's doing is it's it's weaving me >> what it's doing is it's it's weaving me more and more into his heart and his more and more into his heart and his more and more into his heart and his purposes. And it's attaching me even purposes. And it's attaching me even purposes. And it's attaching me even more deeply to him because I have to more deeply to him because I have to more deeply to him because I have to keep going to him. Right? And this keep going to him. Right? And this keep going to him. Right? And this again, this doesn't have to be a again, this doesn't have to be a again, this doesn't have to be a terminal diagnosis. This is any terminal diagnosis. This is any terminal diagnosis. This is any suffering that makes us keep going and suffering that makes us keep going and suffering that makes us keep going and looking at his word and claiming it and looking at his word and claiming it and looking at his word and claiming it and saying, "You say this and I don't feel saying, "You say this and I don't feel saying, "You say this and I don't feel it. I feel terrified right now. I hate it. I feel terrified right now. I hate it. I feel terrified right now. I hate feeling the cancer growing and knowing feeling the cancer growing and knowing feeling the cancer growing and knowing what that means and looking at my son, what that means and looking at my son, what that means and looking at my son, looking at my husband, you know, all looking at my husband, you know, all looking at my husband, you know, all these things. Uh the ministry I have not these things. Uh the ministry I have not these things. Uh the ministry I have not been able to all these things, right?

been able to all these things, right? been able to all these things, right? and saying, "I'm fearful of losing all and saying, "I'm fearful of losing all and saying, "I'm fearful of losing all this and of suffering more pain than I this and of suffering more pain than I this and of suffering more pain than I already have, but I will believe you. already have, but I will believe you. already have, but I will believe you. I'm going to take you at your word." And I'm going to take you at your word." And I'm going to take you at your word." And he always honors that. It doesn't look he always honors that. It doesn't look he always honors that. It doesn't look the same each time, but he always is the same each time, but he always is the same each time, but he always is true to that. Um, I was just reading I'm true to that. Um, I was just reading I'm true to that. Um, I was just reading I'm working through the Gospels and read in working through the Gospels and read in working through the Gospels and read in Mark and Luke where two different Mark and Luke where two different Mark and Luke where two different places, two different circumstances, it places, two different circumstances, it places, two different circumstances, it says, "And it was fulfilled exactly as says, "And it was fulfilled exactly as says, "And it was fulfilled exactly as he had said to them." And I was making he had said to them." And I was making he had said to them." And I was making all these notes like that's exactly what all these notes like that's exactly what all these notes like that's exactly what you're doing, God. It you're doing you're doing, God. It you're doing you're doing, God. It you're doing exactly what you've said you will do for exactly what you've said you will do for exactly what you've said you will do for me. And I'm staking it on sticking me. And I'm staking it on sticking me. And I'm staking it on sticking everything on that. So, um, it might everything on that. So, um, it might everything on that. So, um, it might take a while for those emotions to take a while for those emotions to take a while for those emotions to change, but peace comes and I'm able to change, but peace comes and I'm able to change, but peace comes and I'm able to get up. And the other thing that helps get up. And the other thing that helps get up. And the other thing that helps is staying, I'm going to use your word, is staying, I'm going to use your word, is staying, I'm going to use your word, tethered, [laughter] tethered, [laughter] tethered, [laughter] >> staying deeply connected to my people, >> staying deeply connected to my people, >> staying deeply connected to my people, my church, and doing the next thing. my church, and doing the next thing. my church, and doing the next thing. Like Elizabeth Elliott said, I just get Like Elizabeth Elliott said, I just get Like Elizabeth Elliott said, I just get up and do the next thing. And sometimes up and do the next thing. And sometimes up and do the next thing. And sometimes when I can't get up, I do the next thing when I can't get up, I do the next thing when I can't get up, I do the next thing on my laptop or I send an encouraging on my laptop or I send an encouraging on my laptop or I send an encouraging note or I pray for like I do the next note or I pray for like I do the next note or I pray for like I do the next thing. And so all those things together thing. And so all those things together thing. And so all those things together are helping me. I don't get to walk are helping me. I don't get to walk are helping me. I don't get to walk around the fear, but I'm walking through around the fear, but I'm walking through around the fear, but I'm walking through it with Jesus. And that's everything.

it with Jesus. And that's everything. it with Jesus. And that's everything. That's everything. That's everything. That's everything. >> It's everything. Well, I love how like >> It's everything. Well, I love how like >> It's everything. Well, I love how like what you're offering us is there's this what you're offering us is there's this what you're offering us is there's this part that's really part that's really part that's really >> it's mystical in the s mystery in the >> it's mystical in the s mystery in the >> it's mystical in the s mystery in the sense of it's God's work in us. Like we sense of it's God's work in us. Like we sense of it's God's work in us. Like we don't understand how he does that, but don't understand how he does that, but don't understand how he does that, but it's also it's so practical. Like I have it's also it's so practical. Like I have it's also it's so practical. Like I have to go back and read the word. And I'm to go back and read the word. And I'm to go back and read the word. And I'm also hearing and just even at how you also hearing and just even at how you also hearing and just even at how you started your story that you're a woman started your story that you're a woman started your story that you're a woman who has been in God's word for a long who has been in God's word for a long who has been in God's word for a long time. You didn't you didn't start trying time. You didn't you didn't start trying time. You didn't you didn't start trying to learn these truths. And so you were to learn these truths. And so you were to learn these truths. And so you were just a woman who was abiding in the word just a woman who was abiding in the word just a woman who was abiding in the word of God and how that abiding has turned of God and how that abiding has turned of God and how that abiding has turned into into your foundation. Um, I want to into into your foundation. Um, I want to into into your foundation. Um, I want to ask you as you were talking and when you ask you as you were talking and when you ask you as you were talking and when you said you were in the Gospels said you were in the Gospels said you were in the Gospels and you're reading, what do you do with and you're reading, what do you do with and you're reading, what do you do with the fact that as you're reading the the fact that as you're reading the the fact that as you're reading the Gospels, Jesus was healing completely? Gospels, Jesus was healing completely? Gospels, Jesus was healing completely? >> I thought that's where you're going. >> I thought that's where you're going. >> I thought that's where you're going. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Many people. >> Many people. >> Many people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Many people. We know he can. >> Many people. We know he can. >> Many people. We know he can. >> So, what do you do? And and there is >> So, what do you do? And and there is >> So, what do you do? And and there is something good and right to continue to something good and right to continue to something good and right to continue to pray for that.

pray for that. pray for that. What do you do with the fact when he What do you do with the fact when he What do you do with the fact when he says no? says no? says no? >> I love this question, Courtney, so much. >> I love this question, Courtney, so much. >> I love this question, Courtney, so much. I think this is at the crux of a lot of I think this is at the crux of a lot of I think this is at the crux of a lot of people's um struggle around my story. people's um struggle around my story. people's um struggle around my story. What's helped me so much is I don't know What's helped me so much is I don't know What's helped me so much is I don't know when this when God made this clear to me when this when God made this clear to me when this when God made this clear to me as I I as I was looking at that very as I I as I was looking at that very as I I as I was looking at that very thing and journaling early on in my thing and journaling early on in my thing and journaling early on in my terminal diagnosis. Um, and what became terminal diagnosis. Um, and what became terminal diagnosis. Um, and what became really clear is when Jesus came, he was really clear is when Jesus came, he was really clear is when Jesus came, he was showing us what his kingdom would be showing us what his kingdom would be showing us what his kingdom would be like. And so he's bringing in healing like. And so he's bringing in healing like. And so he's bringing in healing and um freedom and all this fullness and and um freedom and all this fullness and and um freedom and all this fullness and he's providing for people and setting he's providing for people and setting he's providing for people and setting them free. And he's showing this is what them free. And he's showing this is what them free. And he's showing this is what it looks like, right? He's pointing to it looks like, right? He's pointing to it looks like, right? He's pointing to what his kingdom in the fullness is what his kingdom in the fullness is what his kingdom in the fullness is going to look like. And then going to look like. And then going to look like. And then interestingly enough as I kept studying interestingly enough as I kept studying interestingly enough as I kept studying I I'm seeing this you know the theology I I'm seeing this you know the theology I I'm seeing this you know the theology of suffering of he then of suffering of he then of suffering of he then calls his disciples his early church and calls his disciples his early church and calls his disciples his early church and since then to suffer and that's the way since then to suffer and that's the way since then to suffer and that's the way that he's going to usher in his kingdom that he's going to usher in his kingdom that he's going to usher in his kingdom and all the healing and all the beauty and all the healing and all the beauty and all the healing and all the beauty and all the fullness and freedom. And so and all the fullness and freedom. And so and all the fullness and freedom. And so I think suffering to me even before I think suffering to me even before I think suffering to me even before cancer was a way to show the world his cancer was a way to show the world his cancer was a way to show the world his kingdom because we can't explain it kingdom because we can't explain it kingdom because we can't explain it right. It's not it's [snorts] so I've

right. It's not it's [snorts] so I've right. It's not it's [snorts] so I've been thankful that God hasn't healed me been thankful that God hasn't healed me been thankful that God hasn't healed me because I have so many people in my life because I have so many people in my life because I have so many people in my life who don't know him yet and they're who don't know him yet and they're who don't know him yet and they're watching and this doesn't make sense to watching and this doesn't make sense to watching and this doesn't make sense to them. And I pray um I say, "Lord, I pray them. And I pray um I say, "Lord, I pray them. And I pray um I say, "Lord, I pray that they'll have to reckon with you that they'll have to reckon with you that they'll have to reckon with you because of me [laughter] because of me [laughter] because of me [laughter] and this story that they'll have to, you and this story that they'll have to, you and this story that they'll have to, you know, as I share him with them and I know, as I share him with them and I know, as I share him with them and I live in this mystery of why doesn't why live in this mystery of why doesn't why live in this mystery of why doesn't why does a a good God allow this to happen does a a good God allow this to happen does a a good God allow this to happen to one of his children?" But to say, "Oh to one of his children?" But to say, "Oh to one of his children?" But to say, "Oh my goodness, it's because there's work my goodness, it's because there's work my goodness, it's because there's work to do and people to bring into the to do and people to bring into the to do and people to bring into the kingdom." So I think there was that kingdom." So I think there was that kingdom." So I think there was that foreshadowing of the kingdom with foreshadowing of the kingdom with foreshadowing of the kingdom with healing and then the way to invite healing and then the way to invite healing and then the way to invite people in would be through our suffering people in would be through our suffering people in would be through our suffering by faith and with joy that doesn't make by faith and with joy that doesn't make by faith and with joy that doesn't make sense to the world. I mean, Colleen, sense to the world. I mean, Colleen, sense to the world. I mean, Colleen, that is that is the most robust and that is that is the most robust and that is that is the most robust and concise theology of suffering that I concise theology of suffering that I concise theology of suffering that I think I've ever heard because what think I've ever heard because what think I've ever heard because what you're doing is you're saying like, you're doing is you're saying like, you're doing is you're saying like, yeah, the glimpses that we saw because yeah, the glimpses that we saw because yeah, the glimpses that we saw because we have so many. So, not only the we have so many. So, not only the we have so many. So, not only the unbelievers in our lives that are they unbelievers in our lives that are they unbelievers in our lives that are they don't it's this doesn't make sense to don't it's this doesn't make sense to don't it's this doesn't make sense to them at all, right? I mean, because it them at all, right? I mean, because it them at all, right? I mean, because it does not make sense apart from Christ.

does not make sense apart from Christ. does not make sense apart from Christ. Like, it just doesn't. but also our Like, it just doesn't. but also our Like, it just doesn't. but also our brothers and sisters who really cling to brothers and sisters who really cling to brothers and sisters who really cling to the fact that that faith if it's big the fact that that faith if it's big the fact that that faith if it's big enough it's going to bring about the enough it's going to bring about the enough it's going to bring about the healing right healing right healing right >> totally totally >> totally totally >> totally totally >> and I just I just want to be like oh my >> and I just I just want to be like oh my >> and I just I just want to be like oh my word exhibit hey look at Colleen cow I word exhibit hey look at Colleen cow I word exhibit hey look at Colleen cow I mean the faith is so evident and so mean the faith is so evident and so mean the faith is so evident and so beautiful and so big and it's the faith beautiful and so big and it's the faith beautiful and so big and it's the faith in actually God's goodness and God's in actually God's goodness and God's in actually God's goodness and God's character and God's plan and God's character and God's plan and God's character and God's plan and God's kingdom not in this only faith if he kingdom not in this only faith if he kingdom not in this only faith if he does what we want him to do or faith does what we want him to do or faith does what we want him to do or faith that um that we think somehow obligates that um that we think somehow obligates that um that we think somehow obligates God, but instead like your faith doesn't God, but instead like your faith doesn't God, but instead like your faith doesn't obligate God, but it glorifies God. obligate God, but it glorifies God. obligate God, but it glorifies God. >> Um and that's just a beautiful, >> Um and that's just a beautiful, >> Um and that's just a beautiful, beautiful beautiful beautiful >> display. So, thank you. I know that was >> display. So, thank you. I know that was >> display. So, thank you. I know that was I kind of threw you a curveball on that I kind of threw you a curveball on that I kind of threw you a curveball on that one, but wow, I'm so glad. I'm so glad I one, but wow, I'm so glad. I'm so glad I one, but wow, I'm so glad. I'm so glad I did because it's at the heart of a lot did because it's at the heart of a lot did because it's at the heart of a lot of this, right? of this, right? of this, right? >> For all of us. For all of us. >> For all of us. For all of us. >> For all of us. For all of us. >> For all of us. For all of us. Well, I >> For all of us. For all of us. Well, I >> For all of us. For all of us. Well, I don't want to do it, but let's take a don't want to do it, but let's take a don't want to do it, but let's take a little break. um and hear an ad from our little break. um and hear an ad from our little break. um and hear an ad from our sponsor and then we're going to come sponsor and then we're going to come sponsor and then we're going to come back and we're going to really talk back and we're going to really talk back and we're going to really talk about how you're navigating this as a as about how you're navigating this as a as about how you're navigating this as a as a mom and a wife and again just thank a mom and a wife and again just thank a mom and a wife and again just thank you.

you. you. >> Thank you, Courtney. >> Thank you, Courtney. >> Thank you, Courtney. >> Well, welcome back. Um we just continue >> Well, welcome back. Um we just continue >> Well, welcome back. Um we just continue to be grateful to be having this to be grateful to be having this to be grateful to be having this conversation. So, as we talk about conversation. So, as we talk about conversation. So, as we talk about suffering and you you talked about how suffering and you you talked about how suffering and you you talked about how um how old was your son when I don't um how old was your son when I don't um how old was your son when I don't know if you want us to say his name, so know if you want us to say his name, so know if you want us to say his name, so I'm being careful, but how Jeremy is I'm being careful, but how Jeremy is I'm being careful, but how Jeremy is Jeremy. I know his name. I just didn't Jeremy. I know his name. I just didn't Jeremy. I know his name. I just didn't want to say it. want to say it. want to say it. >> You're fine. [laughter] >> You're fine. [laughter] >> You're fine. [laughter] >> How old remind me, how old was Jeremy >> How old remind me, how old was Jeremy >> How old remind me, how old was Jeremy when you were diagnosed? Nine. Is that when you were diagnosed? Nine. Is that when you were diagnosed? Nine. Is that what you said? what you said? what you said? >> Um the So the first time he was six and >> Um the So the first time he was six and >> Um the So the first time he was six and then with terminal diagnosis, he was then with terminal diagnosis, he was then with terminal diagnosis, he was nine. Almost 10. He was just about 10. nine. Almost 10. He was just about 10. nine. Almost 10. He was just about 10. So yeah. So yeah. So yeah. >> Okay. Well, how how have you I guess the >> Okay. Well, how how have you I guess the >> Okay. Well, how how have you I guess the first question is just how do you talk first question is just how do you talk first question is just how do you talk with him about it and how do you help with him about it and how do you help with him about it and how do you help him understand and how is how is he him understand and how is how is he him understand and how is how is he doing? We're going to ask how we can doing? We're going to ask how we can doing? We're going to ask how we can pray for your family later. But but pray for your family later. But but pray for your family later. But but yeah, how how do you even enter into yeah, how how do you even enter into yeah, how how do you even enter into that conversation with a 6-year-old, that conversation with a 6-year-old, that conversation with a 6-year-old, 9year-old, and now 14year-old? 9year-old, and now 14year-old? 9year-old, and now 14year-old? >> You know, one thing that struck me so >> You know, one thing that struck me so >> You know, one thing that struck me so hard at the very beginning, and I will hard at the very beginning, and I will hard at the very beginning, and I will never be able to put into words the never be able to put into words the never be able to put into words the grief of watching that almost grief of watching that almost grief of watching that almost 10-year-old process when I first shared 10-year-old process when I first shared 10-year-old process when I first shared with him. It was, you know, it's one with him. It was, you know, it's one with him. It was, you know, it's one I've thought and I'm kind of going on a I've thought and I'm kind of going on a I've thought and I'm kind of going on a tangent here, but it's one thing I tangent here, but it's one thing I tangent here, but it's one thing I cannot imagine the grief of losing a cannot imagine the grief of losing a cannot imagine the grief of losing a child. It's it's the worst grief and child. It's it's the worst grief and child. It's it's the worst grief and under the sun, right? That none of us under the sun, right? That none of us under the sun, right? That none of us wants to experience, but part of me wants to experience, but part of me wants to experience, but part of me thinks then I get to carry the grief.

thinks then I get to carry the grief. thinks then I get to carry the grief. And there's something knowing that my And there's something knowing that my And there's something knowing that my son has to carry grief. Um, and so son has to carry grief. Um, and so son has to carry grief. Um, and so neither [clears throat] is or I'm not neither [clears throat] is or I'm not neither [clears throat] is or I'm not comparing. I'm just saying as a mama, comparing. I'm just saying as a mama, comparing. I'm just saying as a mama, um, I want to carry the grief. I don't um, I want to carry the grief. I don't um, I want to carry the grief. I don't want to lose him. I don't want to go want to lose him. I don't want to go want to lose him. I don't want to go through that. That's the worst I can through that. That's the worst I can through that. That's the worst I can even imagine. But I I don't want him to even imagine. But I I don't want him to even imagine. But I I don't want him to go through this. And we're so close. So, go through this. And we're so close. So, go through this. And we're so close. So, at the beginning, I I just had I had at the beginning, I I just had I had at the beginning, I I just had I had migraines. My heart pounded out of my migraines. My heart pounded out of my migraines. My heart pounded out of my chest just trying to figure out how to chest just trying to figure out how to chest just trying to figure out how to even process this kind of grief. And I even process this kind of grief. And I even process this kind of grief. And I remember he would just tuck into bed remember he would just tuck into bed remember he would just tuck into bed next to me night after night and just next to me night after night and just next to me night after night and just cry. And those were they became sacred cry. And those were they became sacred cry. And those were they became sacred because I again I felt God's the shadow because I again I felt God's the shadow because I again I felt God's the shadow of his wings and they were the most holy of his wings and they were the most holy of his wings and they were the most holy parenting moments because I got to parenting moments because I got to parenting moments because I got to make um connections for him that I make um connections for him that I make um connections for him that I wouldn't otherwise. We had talked about wouldn't otherwise. We had talked about wouldn't otherwise. We had talked about eternity through chronic illness um and eternity through chronic illness um and eternity through chronic illness um and his suffering. I we'd been been able to his suffering. I we'd been been able to his suffering. I we'd been been able to have those conversations about eternity, have those conversations about eternity, have those conversations about eternity, but suddenly but suddenly but suddenly um his grief and mine, my husband's um his grief and mine, my husband's um his grief and mine, my husband's those parenting moments, it's like those parenting moments, it's like those parenting moments, it's like everything that's important and sacred everything that's important and sacred everything that's important and sacred were in those moments.

were in those moments. were in those moments. >> Um and so I was getting to I'll go back >> Um and so I was getting to I'll go back >> Um and so I was getting to I'll go back to that tethering tether him to Jesus. to that tethering tether him to Jesus. to that tethering tether him to Jesus. and I I got to talk to him about what's and I I got to talk to him about what's and I I got to talk to him about what's really real, right? And it's so it's so really real, right? And it's so it's so really real, right? And it's so it's so tangible when when we're walking through tangible when when we're walking through tangible when when we're walking through this. And so there were some holy that's this. And so there were some holy that's this. And so there were some holy that's all I can describe is Jesus was there all I can describe is Jesus was there all I can describe is Jesus was there with us guiding us in our parenting um with us guiding us in our parenting um with us guiding us in our parenting um and meeting us in those unthinkable and meeting us in those unthinkable and meeting us in those unthinkable spaces. And now it's just incredible to spaces. And now it's just incredible to spaces. And now it's just incredible to have him in his teens and to see the have him in his teens and to see the have him in his teens and to see the wisdom God has worked in his heart wisdom God has worked in his heart wisdom God has worked in his heart because his world lies on the edge of because his world lies on the edge of because his world lies on the edge of eternity. Like this is so real to him. eternity. Like this is so real to him. eternity. Like this is so real to him. And of course he's messy and broken like And of course he's messy and broken like And of course he's messy and broken like all of us. He It's not like he has all of us. He It's not like he has all of us. He It's not like he has [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] some corner on the market of this, but some corner on the market of this, but some corner on the market of this, but he's there is a wisdom he's there is a wisdom he's there is a wisdom in him and he says things insights where in him and he says things insights where in him and he says things insights where I go, whoa. Um, and we we're raw and I go, whoa. Um, and we we're raw and I go, whoa. Um, and we we're raw and we're real. And I told him early on, you we're real. And I told him early on, you we're real. And I told him early on, you can ask anything, you can say anything.

can ask anything, you can say anything. can ask anything, you can say anything. Um, you can feel all the things and Um, you can feel all the things and Um, you can feel all the things and we're going to give you people to we're going to give you people to we're going to give you people to surround you where you can process and surround you where you can process and surround you where you can process and all the, you know, um, [clears throat] all the, you know, um, [clears throat] all the, you know, um, [clears throat] but truly, it's been a holy and very but truly, it's been a holy and very but truly, it's been a holy and very hard parenting journey. Yeah. I can't I hard parenting journey. Yeah. I can't I hard parenting journey. Yeah. I can't I just can't imagine. I um we're going to just can't imagine. I um we're going to just can't imagine. I um we're going to put a link to the video that I think put a link to the video that I think put a link to the video that I think Revive Our Hearts captured um in the Revive Our Hearts captured um in the Revive Our Hearts captured um in the show notes and and it's just a beautiful show notes and and it's just a beautiful show notes and and it's just a beautiful video. I've watched it probably more video. I've watched it probably more video. I've watched it probably more times than I should have because it's times than I should have because it's times than I should have because it's just [laughter] just [laughter] just [laughter] it's just so beautiful and and hard. Um it's just so beautiful and and hard. Um it's just so beautiful and and hard. Um but you you get to see I think the two but you you get to see I think the two but you you get to see I think the two of you singing hymns together is the of you singing hymns together is the of you singing hymns together is the part that just it's just part that just it's just part that just it's just >> you're just giving him this because it's >> you're just giving him this because it's >> you're just giving him this because it's not just your story, is it? That's not just your story, is it? That's not just your story, is it? That's that's, you know, we've had to talk to that's, you know, we've had to talk to that's, you know, we've had to talk to our kids about that in in much our kids about that in in much our kids about that in in much [clears throat] easier circumstances. [clears throat] easier circumstances. [clears throat] easier circumstances. But that, you know, the Lord, it's not But that, you know, the Lord, it's not But that, you know, the Lord, it's not just one person's story he's writing. just one person's story he's writing. just one person's story he's writing. He's writing he's writing everybody's He's writing he's writing everybody's He's writing he's writing everybody's story in this. And and this is Jeremy's story in this. And and this is Jeremy's story in this. And and this is Jeremy's story. Well, we talked at the beginning story. Well, we talked at the beginning story. Well, we talked at the beginning about this idea of trusting God with about this idea of trusting God with about this idea of trusting God with your very life, trusting him with all of your very life, trusting him with all of your very life, trusting him with all of who you are. But I think for any of us who you are. But I think for any of us who you are. But I think for any of us that are parents, um this idea of that are parents, um this idea of that are parents, um this idea of trusting him with our children's lives trusting him with our children's lives trusting him with our children's lives is even more daunting. Um I think for I is even more daunting. Um I think for I is even more daunting. Um I think for I think for most of us and so think for most of us and so think for most of us and so it's not just terminal cancer that has it's not just terminal cancer that has it's not just terminal cancer that has to require us to trust the Lord with our to require us to trust the Lord with our to require us to trust the Lord with our children and the story he's writing for children and the story he's writing for children and the story he's writing for them and the way he's working in them.

them and the way he's working in them. them and the way he's working in them. So, So, So, >> so what would what have you learned in >> so what would what have you learned in >> so what would what have you learned in doing this? Because you're doing it. doing this? Because you're doing it. doing this? Because you're doing it. You're actively doing it even though it You're actively doing it even though it You're actively doing it even though it has to be has to be has to be >> one of the hardest parts of this. >> one of the hardest parts of this. >> one of the hardest parts of this. >> So, what what do you do? How can we do >> So, what what do you do? How can we do >> So, what what do you do? How can we do this, too? Because it's hard. And mine this, too? Because it's hard. And mine this, too? Because it's hard. And mine are adults and now I've got the, you are adults and now I've got the, you are adults and now I've got the, you know, the grandchildren that I have to know, the grandchildren that I have to know, the grandchildren that I have to trust him with because now it's a whole trust him with because now it's a whole trust him with because now it's a whole another generation that I'm like another generation that I'm like another generation that I'm like stressed out about them. You know, stressed out about them. You know, stressed out about them. You know, >> you're multiplying. You're multiplying. >> you're multiplying. You're multiplying. >> you're multiplying. You're multiplying. >> Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Oh my word. Yes. >> Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Oh my word. Yes. >> Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Oh my word. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> Oh, I don't have great answers to be >> Oh, I don't have great answers to be >> Oh, I don't have great answers to be honest. I It is a It It goes back to honest. I It is a It It goes back to honest. I It is a It It goes back to that clinging and just continuing that clinging and just continuing that clinging and just continuing to This might be a terrible analogy, but to This might be a terrible analogy, but to This might be a terrible analogy, but just continuing to put Isaac on the just continuing to put Isaac on the just continuing to put Isaac on the altar um and to say, "God, you will altar um and to say, "God, you will altar um and to say, "God, you will provide. You will provide and you will provide. You will provide and you will provide. You will provide and you will do them good. What I know about your do them good. What I know about your do them good. What I know about your character is going to hold fast." And character is going to hold fast." And character is going to hold fast." And so, um, again, being able to pour out my so, um, again, being able to pour out my so, um, again, being able to pour out my heart, it is the hardest part of this heart, it is the hardest part of this heart, it is the hardest part of this journey, bar none, because he's not, journey, bar none, because he's not, journey, bar none, because he's not, you know, it's like your, it's your kid.

you know, it's like your, it's your kid. you know, it's like your, it's your kid. It's your kid. And so, It's your kid. And so, It's your kid. And so, um, of course, my husband, of course, um, of course, my husband, of course, um, of course, my husband, of course, but it's there's that mama's factor, but it's there's that mama's factor, but it's there's that mama's factor, right? right? right? >> Well, and he's an adult and there's a >> Well, and he's an adult and there's a >> Well, and he's an adult and there's a different it's a different thing. No, I different it's a different thing. No, I different it's a different thing. No, I I think all of us I think all of us I think all of us >> feel that, you know. >> feel that, you know. >> feel that, you know. >> Yes. And even you know scripture has a >> Yes. And even you know scripture has a >> Yes. And even you know scripture has a couple of different verses where it says couple of different verses where it says couple of different verses where it says it talks about grief and to make its it talks about grief and to make its it talks about grief and to make its point strong enough it talks about a son point strong enough it talks about a son point strong enough it talks about a son losing it his mother and I just find losing it his mother and I just find losing it his mother and I just find that fascinating that that is the that fascinating that that is the that fascinating that that is the biblical example of what grief you know biblical example of what grief you know biblical example of what grief you know that anyway it's so just being able to that anyway it's so just being able to that anyway it's so just being able to say God I you have proven yourself to me say God I you have proven yourself to me say God I you have proven yourself to me through so many things over so many through so many things over so many through so many things over so many years. I'm banking on that for my son. years. I'm banking on that for my son. years. I'm banking on that for my son. And I'm not going to be ashamed of what And I'm not going to be ashamed of what And I'm not going to be ashamed of what I'm feeling either. [laughter] I'm feeling either. [laughter] I'm feeling either. [laughter] And to be okay with just mourning. And And to be okay with just mourning. And And to be okay with just mourning. And I'm so encouraged by Jesus's response to I'm so encouraged by Jesus's response to I'm so encouraged by Jesus's response to death in scripture. I think of Psalm 18.

death in scripture. I think of Psalm 18. death in scripture. I think of Psalm 18. There is almost this dragon-like There is almost this dragon-like There is almost this dragon-like response that he has when David is response that he has when David is response that he has when David is facing death. I mean, he he is it's facing death. I mean, he he is it's facing death. I mean, he he is it's snorting out his nostrils and it's snorting out his nostrils and it's snorting out his nostrils and it's >> flames that are being thrown from him >> flames that are being thrown from him >> flames that are being thrown from him because he comes down to make it right. because he comes down to make it right. because he comes down to make it right. And then we see that same picture in And then we see that same picture in And then we see that same picture in John 11 with Lazarus. Jesus, you would John 11 with Lazarus. Jesus, you would John 11 with Lazarus. Jesus, you would know the embroi I think is the Greek know the embroi I think is the Greek know the embroi I think is the Greek word, but it's that snorting with anger word, but it's that snorting with anger word, but it's that snorting with anger because Jesus is he hates death more because Jesus is he hates death more because Jesus is he hates death more than any of us do. and he came to break than any of us do. and he came to break than any of us do. and he came to break its neck and to make it right. And its neck and to make it right. And its neck and to make it right. And before he raises Lazarus, he's crying before he raises Lazarus, he's crying before he raises Lazarus, he's crying and he's feeling. He doesn't say it's and he's feeling. He doesn't say it's and he's feeling. He doesn't say it's going to be okay. [laughter] going to be okay. [laughter] going to be okay. [laughter] Just a few minutes, it's all going to be Just a few minutes, it's all going to be Just a few minutes, it's all going to be okay. He joins us in the emotions. And okay. He joins us in the emotions. And okay. He joins us in the emotions. And that has been a comfort to my mom's that has been a comfort to my mom's that has been a comfort to my mom's heart is he joins me in those emotions. heart is he joins me in those emotions. heart is he joins me in those emotions. He joins Jeremy. He joins Eddie in our He joins Jeremy. He joins Eddie in our He joins Jeremy. He joins Eddie in our raw mourning and lamenting. Um, but he raw mourning and lamenting. Um, but he raw mourning and lamenting. Um, but he doesn't leave us there. And then he doesn't leave us there. And then he doesn't leave us there. And then he brings scripture that promise really big brings scripture that promise really big brings scripture that promise really big great things, right? And he's saying great things, right? And he's saying great things, right? And he's saying really soon this is going to be over.

really soon this is going to be over. really soon this is going to be over. Really soon all of you are going to be Really soon all of you are going to be Really soon all of you are going to be with me and this will all make sense and with me and this will all make sense and with me and this will all make sense and there is an eternal incomparable weight there is an eternal incomparable weight there is an eternal incomparable weight of glory at stake here. And so we can of glory at stake here. And so we can of glory at stake here. And so we can say this is light and momentary. It say this is light and momentary. It say this is light and momentary. It doesn't feel like it. But in comparison, doesn't feel like it. But in comparison, doesn't feel like it. But in comparison, >> no, it doesn't. >> no, it doesn't. >> no, it doesn't. >> In comparison, >> In comparison, >> In comparison, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> we can bank on the fact that someday >> we can bank on the fact that someday >> we can bank on the fact that someday this will make sense what was at stake. this will make sense what was at stake. this will make sense what was at stake. And he is going to outgive us And he is going to outgive us And he is going to outgive us more than we can fathom for whatever we more than we can fathom for whatever we more than we can fathom for whatever we lose here. Right? If you give up homes lose here. Right? If you give up homes lose here. Right? If you give up homes and fields and parents and children, he and fields and parents and children, he and fields and parents and children, he will give a hundred times over in this will give a hundred times over in this will give a hundred times over in this life and the next. And so we bank on life and the next. And so we bank on life and the next. And so we bank on that. that. that. >> We do bank on it. And I just keep saying >> We do bank on it. And I just keep saying >> We do bank on it. And I just keep saying this, but thank you that you are showing this, but thank you that you are showing this, but thank you that you are showing us and teaching us how to actually do it us and teaching us how to actually do it us and teaching us how to actually do it because it's it can just be words and because it's it can just be words and because it's it can just be words and then it's like, oh no, you're actually then it's like, oh no, you're actually then it's like, oh no, you're actually you actually are clinging to these true you actually are clinging to these true you actually are clinging to these true truths um that that are true, but it's truths um that that are true, but it's truths um that that are true, but it's it's hard to live in light of that it's hard to live in light of that it's hard to live in light of that sometimes. And and and then look at all sometimes. And and and then look at all sometimes. And and and then look at all the lesser things that we have trouble the lesser things that we have trouble the lesser things that we have trouble trusting our kids with. And so it's this trusting our kids with. And so it's this trusting our kids with. And so it's this >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Absolutely.

>> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Absolutely you do. I mean that of course Absolutely you do. I mean that of course Absolutely you do. I mean that of course you do. Of course you do. I mean that's you do. Of course you do. I mean that's you do. Of course you do. I mean that's because Yeah. Because that's just how we because Yeah. Because that's just how we because Yeah. Because that's just how we are and it's just [laughter] you know are and it's just [laughter] you know are and it's just [laughter] you know trust that he didn't get the invitation trust that he didn't get the invitation trust that he didn't get the invitation to the birthday party or make the select to the birthday party or make the select to the birthday party or make the select team like it's all going to still be team like it's all going to still be team like it's all going to still be okay. But I mean you [laughter] know it okay. But I mean you [laughter] know it okay. But I mean you [laughter] know it just you start thinking about those just you start thinking about those just you start thinking about those things in light of um the bigger issues things in light of um the bigger issues things in light of um the bigger issues the darker shadows. And um and I love the darker shadows. And um and I love the darker shadows. And um and I love that and what you're saying, Colleen, it that and what you're saying, Colleen, it that and what you're saying, Colleen, it is true. Like it is God is doing this is true. Like it is God is doing this is true. Like it is God is doing this work for like he's going to show up for work for like he's going to show up for work for like he's going to show up for Jeremy, for Eddie. It's who he is. And Jeremy, for Eddie. It's who he is. And Jeremy, for Eddie. It's who he is. And so like it's Yeah, it's it's true so like it's Yeah, it's it's true so like it's Yeah, it's it's true comfort. It's true peace. Um well, I comfort. It's true peace. Um well, I comfort. It's true peace. Um well, I want to shift a little bit because you want to shift a little bit because you want to shift a little bit because you talked about the local church and so talked about the local church and so talked about the local church and so what has how how has God used the local what has how how has God used the local what has how how has God used the local church, believers, gospel- centered church, believers, gospel- centered church, believers, gospel- centered friends in your life? And really, how friends in your life? And really, how friends in your life? And really, how can how can we learn from them? What how can how can we learn from them? What how can how can we learn from them? What how can we be better friends to our friends can we be better friends to our friends can we be better friends to our friends who are suffering? who are suffering? who are suffering? >> Well, I think that's a mutual give and >> Well, I think that's a mutual give and >> Well, I think that's a mutual give and take, right? Because we're all going take, right? Because we're all going take, right? Because we're all going through different forms um in different through different forms um in different through different forms um in different seasons. Um I love God's people and I um seasons. Um I love God's people and I um seasons. Um I love God's people and I um Psalm 16 is just so instructive to me Psalm 16 is just so instructive to me Psalm 16 is just so instructive to me where it says, "I have no good apart where it says, "I have no good apart where it says, "I have no good apart from you and all my delight is in your from you and all my delight is in your from you and all my delight is in your saints." And it's like that's an saints." And it's like that's an saints." And it's like that's an amazing, amazing, amazing, you know, it's the mystery of both. Like you know, it's the mystery of both. Like you know, it's the mystery of both. Like all my good is in God. I mean, it could all my good is in God. I mean, it could all my good is in God. I mean, it could just be God and that would be enough.

just be God and that would be enough. just be God and that would be enough. But then he gives us his people so that But then he gives us his people so that But then he gives us his people so that we experience him and know him as we we experience him and know him as we we experience him and know him as we cannot alone. cannot alone. cannot alone. >> And so all my delight is in his people. >> And so all my delight is in his people. >> And so all my delight is in his people. >> Um, and people are hard. And I will >> Um, and people are hard. And I will >> Um, and people are hard. And I will start with mwah. [laughter] start with mwah. [laughter] start with mwah. [laughter] I am I'm a difficult person. And so I am I'm a difficult person. And so I am I'm a difficult person. And so relationships are just hard. They're so relationships are just hard. They're so relationships are just hard. They're so tough. And but that um resolve has tough. And but that um resolve has tough. And but that um resolve has become more and more the closer I get to become more and more the closer I get to become more and more the closer I get to going home, going home, going home, the more I love the church, I love the the more I love the church, I love the the more I love the church, I love the bride. And the more I work to to make bride. And the more I work to to make bride. And the more I work to to make sure I'm connected with those people and sure I'm connected with those people and sure I'm connected with those people and it takes more effort than ever before it takes more effort than ever before it takes more effort than ever before because my body is weak and I get tired because my body is weak and I get tired because my body is weak and I get tired easily. Social energy is very small. But easily. Social energy is very small. But easily. Social energy is very small. But I see my need for especially the way God I see my need for especially the way God I see my need for especially the way God has made his church. It's a beautiful has made his church. It's a beautiful has made his church. It's a beautiful thing. And when we go off, it would be thing. And when we go off, it would be thing. And when we go off, it would be way too easy for me to go dark and way too easy for me to go dark and way too easy for me to go dark and isolated, isolated, isolated, >> um, if I let myself, >> um, if I let myself, >> um, if I let myself, >> you know, slip away from that local >> you know, slip away from that local >> you know, slip away from that local church setting. And so I give myself to church setting. And so I give myself to church setting. And so I give myself to it. And I see how the people of God fill it. And I see how the people of God fill it. And I see how the people of God fill in my gaps and speak truth to me. It's in my gaps and speak truth to me. It's in my gaps and speak truth to me. It's where I get to confess sin. It's where I where I get to confess sin. It's where I where I get to confess sin. It's where I get to enjoy the sacraments and be get to enjoy the sacraments and be get to enjoy the sacraments and be reminded of the feast to come by taking reminded of the feast to come by taking reminded of the feast to come by taking that supper. um you know, gathering that supper. um you know, gathering that supper. um you know, gathering around the table. I'm just increasingly

around the table. I'm just increasingly around the table. I'm just increasingly grateful for how the body works and how grateful for how the body works and how grateful for how the body works and how we need each other and we're not meant we need each other and we're not meant we need each other and we're not meant to go it alone. And sometimes it can to go it alone. And sometimes it can to go it alone. And sometimes it can feel isolating cuz I don't know anyone feel isolating cuz I don't know anyone feel isolating cuz I don't know anyone else at this moment or in our church else at this moment or in our church else at this moment or in our church that is on this journey. And so that is on this journey. And so that is on this journey. And so sometimes it will feel and we can all sometimes it will feel and we can all sometimes it will feel and we can all feel that with different sufferings, feel that with different sufferings, feel that with different sufferings, right? Like, oh, I'm the only one in my right? Like, oh, I'm the only one in my right? Like, oh, I'm the only one in my circle with this particular suffering circle with this particular suffering circle with this particular suffering right now. Um, and that's that can be right now. Um, and that's that can be right now. Um, and that's that can be quickly become a problem or a lie. And quickly become a problem or a lie. And quickly become a problem or a lie. And so for me to stay connected keeps the so for me to stay connected keeps the so for me to stay connected keeps the suffering from becoming big. You know, suffering from becoming big. You know, suffering from becoming big. You know, it's it keeps the suffering in its place it's it keeps the suffering in its place it's it keeps the suffering in its place because as I'm hearing everybody's because as I'm hearing everybody's because as I'm hearing everybody's stories, I'm like, "Wow, I can't even stories, I'm like, "Wow, I can't even stories, I'm like, "Wow, I can't even imagine facing that." And it it keeps us imagine facing that." And it it keeps us imagine facing that." And it it keeps us balanced. It keeps perspective. And balanced. It keeps perspective. And balanced. It keeps perspective. And anyway, I could go on and on, but people anyway, I could go on and on, but people anyway, I could go on and on, but people love how you started off talking about love how you started off talking about love how you started off talking about how it's mutual always. And and I know how it's mutual always. And and I know how it's mutual always. And and I know you said earlier, you were talking about you said earlier, you were talking about you said earlier, you were talking about just doing the next thing. And you said, just doing the next thing. And you said, just doing the next thing. And you said, "Sometimes I just need to get on and "Sometimes I just need to get on and "Sometimes I just need to get on and send an encouraging email." And I send an encouraging email." And I send an encouraging email." And I thought thought thought >> that's a beautiful way to live as both >> that's a beautiful way to live as both >> that's a beautiful way to live as both the receiver of mercy and the giver of the receiver of mercy and the giver of the receiver of mercy and the giver of mercy. The receiver of encouragement and mercy. The receiver of encouragement and mercy. The receiver of encouragement and the giver of encouragement. Like what a the giver of encouragement. Like what a the giver of encouragement. Like what a beautiful testimony. But we do need each beautiful testimony. But we do need each beautiful testimony. But we do need each other, don't we? In order to be doing other, don't we? In order to be doing other, don't we? In order to be doing that. And we have to actually know each that. And we have to actually know each that. And we have to actually know each other in order to be able to do that in other in order to be able to do that in other in order to be able to do that in a way that's real and and tangible and a way that's real and and tangible and a way that's real and and tangible and substantive.

substantive. substantive. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> well, Colleen, I feel like I could just >> well, Colleen, I feel like I could just >> well, Colleen, I feel like I could just keep asking you questions um for a keep asking you questions um for a keep asking you questions um for a [clears throat] long long time. I want [clears throat] long long time. I want [clears throat] long long time. I want to to to >> I want to learn from you and I >> I want to learn from you and I >> I want to learn from you and I appreciate the opportunity to do that. I appreciate the opportunity to do that. I appreciate the opportunity to do that. I do want to end with two questions. Um do want to end with two questions. Um do want to end with two questions. Um the first is because I know everybody the first is because I know everybody the first is because I know everybody listening is going to want to know how listening is going to want to know how listening is going to want to know how we can pray for you and how we can pray we can pray for you and how we can pray we can pray for you and how we can pray for your family. for your family. for your family. >> Oh my goodness, that means so much. And >> Oh my goodness, that means so much. And >> Oh my goodness, that means so much. And I will say um we have felt the grace of I will say um we have felt the grace of I will say um we have felt the grace of prayers from saints. I cannot even tell prayers from saints. I cannot even tell prayers from saints. I cannot even tell you there are times where there is just you there are times where there is just you there are times where there is just a a tangible experience of grace that a a tangible experience of grace that a a tangible experience of grace that doesn't make sense and then I will hear doesn't make sense and then I will hear doesn't make sense and then I will hear people were praying, people were people were praying, people were people were praying, people were praying, people were praying. Um, and I praying, people were praying. Um, and I praying, people were praying. Um, and I know that yes, this journey would be know that yes, this journey would be know that yes, this journey would be much different without prayer. So, thank much different without prayer. So, thank much different without prayer. So, thank you. Thank you ahead of time. We stand you. Thank you ahead of time. We stand you. Thank you ahead of time. We stand on those prayers. Um, for me, I one of on those prayers. Um, for me, I one of on those prayers. Um, for me, I one of my prayers is that I will endure my prayers is that I will endure my prayers is that I will endure joyfully. Um, it's it's daunting and I joyfully. Um, it's it's daunting and I joyfully. Um, it's it's daunting and I am tired. My body is tired. Um, and I'm am tired. My body is tired. Um, and I'm am tired. My body is tired. Um, and I'm just so often I'm saying to the Lord, I just so often I'm saying to the Lord, I just so often I'm saying to the Lord, I am so weary. [laughter] am so weary. [laughter] am so weary. [laughter] Um I'm exhausted from a long long Um I'm exhausted from a long long Um I'm exhausted from a long long journey even before cancer of just journey even before cancer of just journey even before cancer of just physical suffering and um but I want to physical suffering and um but I want to physical suffering and um but I want to endure to the end. I want to finish well endure to the end. I want to finish well endure to the end. I want to finish well and I want to do it with joy. I want to and I want to do it with joy. I want to and I want to do it with joy. I want to live from the heart Jesus has given me live from the heart Jesus has given me live from the heart Jesus has given me so that even maybe in my final days I

so that even maybe in my final days I so that even maybe in my final days I can still laugh a little bit even if can still laugh a little bit even if can still laugh a little bit even if that's hard to do physically or I'm that's hard to do physically or I'm that's hard to do physically or I'm drugged up or whatever it looks like. drugged up or whatever it looks like. drugged up or whatever it looks like. just that Jesus's heart would still flow just that Jesus's heart would still flow just that Jesus's heart would still flow out of me. So, however, I don't know how out of me. So, however, I don't know how out of me. So, however, I don't know how to say that succinctly, but to say that succinctly, but to say that succinctly, but >> I love that. What a what a beautiful >> I love that. What a what a beautiful >> I love that. What a what a beautiful thing to pray for. thing to pray for. thing to pray for. >> Well, thank you. That's what he's >> Well, thank you. That's what he's >> Well, thank you. That's what he's definitely put on my heart to press into definitely put on my heart to press into definitely put on my heart to press into that. Lord, help me that. Lord, help me that. Lord, help me >> because there's, you know, enough people >> because there's, you know, enough people >> because there's, you know, enough people bail and I know that's in me. [laughter] bail and I know that's in me. [laughter] bail and I know that's in me. [laughter] >> I'm not impervious to, you know, just >> I'm not impervious to, you know, just >> I'm not impervious to, you know, just blowing it at the end or bringing shame blowing it at the end or bringing shame blowing it at the end or bringing shame to Christ's name. And so I pray, Lord, to Christ's name. And so I pray, Lord, to Christ's name. And so I pray, Lord, help me finish well and bring glory to help me finish well and bring glory to help me finish well and bring glory to you. And um and for my guys that God's you. And um and for my guys that God's you. And um and for my guys that God's hand would be mighty on their lives. I hand would be mighty on their lives. I hand would be mighty on their lives. I mean, when I pray that, that gives me mean, when I pray that, that gives me mean, when I pray that, that gives me such faith and courage like God, make such faith and courage like God, make such faith and courage like God, make your hand. I already see it. Continue your hand. I already see it. Continue your hand. I already see it. Continue your mighty hand on their life. Um that your mighty hand on their life. Um that your mighty hand on their life. Um that they would continue to have kingdom they would continue to have kingdom they would continue to have kingdom impact and live for you. And same kind impact and live for you. And same kind impact and live for you. And same kind of thing. finish well and strong and by of thing. finish well and strong and by of thing. finish well and strong and by faith. And so I hope everybody faith. And so I hope everybody faith. And so I hope everybody listening, please stop and actually pray listening, please stop and actually pray listening, please stop and actually pray these things for Colleen and Eddie and these things for Colleen and Eddie and these things for Colleen and Eddie and Jeremy and and just watch the Lord work Jeremy and and just watch the Lord work Jeremy and and just watch the Lord work because he does he does answer the because he does he does answer the because he does he does answer the prayers of his people. And so I hope prayers of his people. And so I hope prayers of his people. And so I hope that you have thousands upon thousands that you have thousands upon thousands that you have thousands upon thousands of people all over the world um praying of people all over the world um praying of people all over the world um praying those exact things for you. And you those exact things for you. And you those exact things for you. And you know, Colleen, before I ask you your

know, Colleen, before I ask you your know, Colleen, before I ask you your last question, I was thinking when you last question, I was thinking when you last question, I was thinking when you started talking and you said that as a started talking and you said that as a started talking and you said that as a younger woman, you just so desperately younger woman, you just so desperately younger woman, you just so desperately wanted to impact the world for Christ. wanted to impact the world for Christ. wanted to impact the world for Christ. Like that was your I mean, Colleen, Like that was your I mean, Colleen, Like that was your I mean, Colleen, >> you have I mean, it's just >> you have I mean, it's just >> you have I mean, it's just >> oh my goodness, >> oh my goodness, >> oh my goodness, >> not in the way you would have scripted >> not in the way you would have scripted >> not in the way you would have scripted it, but my word, my word you have. You it, but my word, my word you have. You it, but my word, my word you have. You have strengthened the church and you have strengthened the church and you have strengthened the church and you have brought glory have brought glory have brought glory >> to the father, son and spirit. And it's >> to the father, son and spirit. And it's >> to the father, son and spirit. And it's a good a privilege to know you. A a good a privilege to know you. A a good a privilege to know you. A privilege to know you. So thank you, privilege to know you. So thank you, privilege to know you. So thank you, sister. And I do. sister. And I do. sister. And I do. >> I look forward to that day. Um when >> I look forward to that day. Um when >> I look forward to that day. Um when we're both standing on the other shore we're both standing on the other shore we're both standing on the other shore and we can rejoice in person in our and we can rejoice in person in our and we can rejoice in person in our resurrected bodies. I look forward to resurrected bodies. I look forward to resurrected bodies. I look forward to that. that. that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, you are you are a singer. I know >> Well, you are you are a singer. I know >> Well, you are you are a singer. I know that. So, what is one of your favorite that. So, what is one of your favorite that. So, what is one of your favorite hymns? What is a sustaining hymn right hymns? What is a sustaining hymn right hymns? What is a sustaining hymn right now and why? I mean, an all-time now and why? I mean, an all-time now and why? I mean, an all-time favorite is Be Still My Soul. And I just favorite is Be Still My Soul. And I just favorite is Be Still My Soul. And I just some of the lyrics, especially through some of the lyrics, especially through some of the lyrics, especially through thorny ways leads to a joyful end. I thorny ways leads to a joyful end. I thorny ways leads to a joyful end. I mean, mean, mean, >> that one, if I was going to get a >> that one, if I was going to get a >> that one, if I was going to get a tattoo, [laughter] tattoo, [laughter] tattoo, [laughter] >> it would be that through thorny ways >> it would be that through thorny ways >> it would be that through thorny ways leads to a joyful end. [laughter] leads to a joyful end. [laughter] leads to a joyful end. [laughter] >> Wow. Um, but there are just some rich, >> Wow. Um, but there are just some rich, >> Wow. Um, but there are just some rich, you know, the hymns and theology. I love you know, the hymns and theology. I love you know, the hymns and theology. I love that you ask that because it shapes our that you ask that because it shapes our that you ask that because it shapes our theology when we soak in those. Um, but theology when we soak in those. Um, but theology when we soak in those. Um, but yeah, that would be an all-time favorite yeah, that would be an all-time favorite yeah, that would be an all-time favorite that I sung over Jeremy for years and

that I sung over Jeremy for years and that I sung over Jeremy for years and years, even before cancer. And it took years, even before cancer. And it took years, even before cancer. And it took on new meaning when all this went down. on new meaning when all this went down. on new meaning when all this went down. And those words are rich. And no, you And those words are rich. And no, you And those words are rich. And no, you know, be still my soul. Um, the Lord is know, be still my soul. Um, the Lord is know, be still my soul. Um, the Lord is on your side. H bear patiently the on your side. H bear patiently the on your side. H bear patiently the grief. I mean it's just it goes on and grief. I mean it's just it goes on and grief. I mean it's just it goes on and on. It just rich. [laughter] on. It just rich. [laughter] on. It just rich. [laughter] >> You want to sing us a sing us a verse >> You want to sing us a sing us a verse >> You want to sing us a sing us a verse from it? from it? from it? >> Oh my goodness. I would have to I'm >> Oh my goodness. I would have to I'm >> Oh my goodness. I would have to I'm going to have to look at it cuz I will going to have to look at it cuz I will going to have to look at it cuz I will not pull the but [laughter] not pull the but [laughter] not pull the but [laughter] on the spot. on the spot. on the spot. >> No >> No >> No here. Nope. I can uh let me just do a here. Nope. I can uh let me just do a here. Nope. I can uh let me just do a little I've got it right here. little I've got it right here. little I've got it right here. Okay. I will give it my shot. Okay. I will give it my shot. Okay. I will give it my shot. Be still my soul, the Lord is on thy Be still my soul, the Lord is on thy Be still my soul, the Lord is on thy side. side. side. Bear patiently Bear patiently Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain. the cross of grief or pain. the cross of grief or pain. Leave to thy God Leave to thy God Leave to thy God to order and provide to order and provide to order and provide in [singing] every change he faithful in [singing] every change he faithful in [singing] every change he faithful will remain. [singing] will remain. [singing] will remain. [singing] Be still my soul, Be still my soul, Be still my soul, thy best, thy heavenly friend.

thy best, thy heavenly friend. thy best, thy heavenly friend. Through thorny ways Through thorny ways Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end. leads to a joyful end. leads to a joyful end. Stick with that one. But I just that Stick with that one. But I just that Stick with that one. But I just that verse verse verse so rich. so rich. so rich. >> It's so rich. And with that, we are we >> It's so rich. And with that, we are we >> It's so rich. And with that, we are we are going to end this episode. There is are going to end this episode. There is are going to end this episode. There is no more beautiful way to end. So, thank no more beautiful way to end. So, thank no more beautiful way to end. So, thank you for joining us, Colleen, and for you for joining us, Colleen, and for you for joining us, Colleen, and for sharing your very life with us. sharing your very life with us. sharing your very life with us. >> Thank you. Thank you for your ministry >> Thank you. Thank you for your ministry >> Thank you. Thank you for your ministry and how you lead these conversations to and how you lead these conversations to and how you lead these conversations to to Jesus's glory.