Becoming Good Stewards of Our Bodies [The Deep Dish - Ep. 21]

my whole life. I missed this piece. I my whole life. I missed this piece. I missed this understanding. I went missed this understanding. I went missed this understanding. I went immediately to well, how many calories immediately to well, how many calories immediately to well, how many calories do I need to take in? How much weight do do I need to take in? How much weight do do I need to take in? How much weight do I need to lose? What size should I be I need to lose? What size should I be I need to lose? What size should I be in? Body topics. But I didn't have a in? Body topics. But I didn't have a in? Body topics. But I didn't have a foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have an foundation. I didn't have an foundation. I didn't have an understanding. And when you don't understanding. And when you don't understanding. And when you don't understand that, when you don't understand that, when you don't understand that, when you don't understand what Christ came to do for understand what Christ came to do for understand what Christ came to do for your body, then you won't live this. your body, then you won't live this. your body, then you won't live this. You'll live very differently. You'll You'll live very differently. You'll You'll live very differently. You'll live very much in body topics. [Music] [Music] Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor here with truths. I am Courtney Doctor here with truths. I am Courtney Doctor here with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. And our guest today is Lisa Whittle. And our guest today is Lisa Whittle. And our guest today is Lisa Whittle. Welcome, Lisa. We're so glad you're Welcome, Lisa. We're so glad you're Welcome, Lisa. We're so glad you're here. here. here. >> Hi. It's so fun to be here. Oh, man. >> Hi. It's so fun to be here. Oh, man. >> Hi. It's so fun to be here. Oh, man. Well, we've already had a fun Well, we've already had a fun Well, we've already had a fun conversation prior to hitting record, conversation prior to hitting record, conversation prior to hitting record, but today we want to have a conversation but today we want to have a conversation but today we want to have a conversation about something that I would imagine about something that I would imagine about something that I would imagine every single person or at least the vast every single person or at least the vast every single person or at least the vast vast majority of us struggle with in vast majority of us struggle with in vast majority of us struggle with in some way. And that is how to have a some way. And that is how to have a some way. And that is how to have a healthy relationship with our own just healthy relationship with our own just healthy relationship with our own just with our own bodies. Because I think few with our own bodies. Because I think few with our own bodies. Because I think few of us know how to be good stewards of of us know how to be good stewards of of us know how to be good stewards of our bodies, how to think about them our bodies, how to think about them our bodies, how to think about them biblically, how to be sober minded in biblically, how to be sober minded in biblically, how to be sober minded in the way we take care of them, and how to the way we take care of them, and how to the way we take care of them, and how to how to glorify God through our bodies.

how to glorify God through our bodies. how to glorify God through our bodies. Yeah. And Lisa, you have written Yeah. And Lisa, you have written Yeah. And Lisa, you have written multiple books on a variety of topics. multiple books on a variety of topics. multiple books on a variety of topics. Is this your first Bible study? Is this your first Bible study? Is this your first Bible study? >> No, it's not. >> No, it's not. >> No, it's not. >> Okay. You've done a Okay. You've done a >> Okay. You've done a Okay. You've done a >> Okay. You've done a Okay. You've done a bunch of Bible studies as well, but this bunch of Bible studies as well, but this bunch of Bible studies as well, but this is a Bible study that you've just is a Bible study that you've just is a Bible study that you've just completed actually on the body. And so completed actually on the body. And so completed actually on the body. And so tell me, as you were doing the research tell me, as you were doing the research tell me, as you were doing the research for this, cuz I know you worked hard and for this, cuz I know you worked hard and for this, cuz I know you worked hard and really went into the scriptures, are really went into the scriptures, are really went into the scriptures, are there any particular passages that there any particular passages that there any particular passages that really started to shape how you think really started to shape how you think really started to shape how you think about your body and our bodies about your body and our bodies about your body and our bodies differently than you had in the past? differently than you had in the past? differently than you had in the past? >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, the whole Bible, >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, the whole Bible, >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, the whole Bible, the whole Bible. I mean, that sounds the whole Bible. I mean, that sounds the whole Bible. I mean, that sounds crazy, but it's really, really true. crazy, but it's really, really true. crazy, but it's really, really true. That I think that's kind of though the That I think that's kind of though the That I think that's kind of though the point Melissa of whole body theology point Melissa of whole body theology point Melissa of whole body theology because in the past my whole life really because in the past my whole life really because in the past my whole life really it's been about a verse here or there. it's been about a verse here or there. it's been about a verse here or there. It's been about a passage here or there. It's been about a passage here or there. It's been about a passage here or there. This was the first time in my life that This was the first time in my life that This was the first time in my life that I dug into the scripture in a really I dug into the scripture in a really I dug into the scripture in a really comprehensive way and where I really comprehensive way and where I really comprehensive way and where I really looked at everything Old Testament, New looked at everything Old Testament, New looked at everything Old Testament, New Testament and understood it in a full Testament and understood it in a full Testament and understood it in a full picture. And so picture. And so picture. And so Yeah, certainly. Genesis 1 Yeah, certainly. Genesis 1 Yeah, certainly. Genesis 1 2731 2731 2731 learning about IMO day bodies made good learning about IMO day bodies made good learning about IMO day bodies made good understanding what that actually means understanding what that actually means understanding what that actually means and in the context and starting a and in the context and starting a and in the context and starting a foundational piece from that place right foundational piece from that place right foundational piece from that place right >> but then also John 1 and you know the >> but then also John 1 and you know the >> but then also John 1 and you know the incarnate God uh the you know John 1:14

incarnate God uh the you know John 1:14 incarnate God uh the you know John 1:14 word made flesh come and dwelt among us word made flesh come and dwelt among us word made flesh come and dwelt among us and what that means fully God fully man and what that means fully God fully man and what that means fully God fully man uh what that means means for us as we uh what that means means for us as we uh what that means means for us as we live daily in our bodies. Never really live daily in our bodies. Never really live daily in our bodies. Never really made that connection uh in the way that made that connection uh in the way that made that connection uh in the way that I was living out my life, exercising, I was living out my life, exercising, I was living out my life, exercising, eating, you know, uh resting, all of eating, you know, uh resting, all of eating, you know, uh resting, all of that, uh that type of thing. Romans 6, that, uh that type of thing. Romans 6, that, uh that type of thing. Romans 6, uh learning about no longer being slaves uh learning about no longer being slaves uh learning about no longer being slaves to sin in our bodies. Um Ephesians 4, to sin in our bodies. Um Ephesians 4, to sin in our bodies. Um Ephesians 4, you know, um old life, new life, that you know, um old life, new life, that you know, um old life, new life, that type of thing. Um putting off old self, type of thing. Um putting off old self, type of thing. Um putting off old self, new self, that that idea. I mean, I new self, that that idea. I mean, I new self, that that idea. I mean, I could go on and on. uh body of Christ, could go on and on. uh body of Christ, could go on and on. uh body of Christ, learning about that and u and the 1 learning about that and u and the 1 learning about that and u and the 1 Corinthians 12 and um going on into Corinthians 12 and um going on into Corinthians 12 and um going on into Revelation 21 and talking about look I Revelation 21 and talking about look I Revelation 21 and talking about look I make all things new. So I mean honestly make all things new. So I mean honestly make all things new. So I mean honestly Genesis to Revelation and the whole Genesis to Revelation and the whole Genesis to Revelation and the whole scripture scripture scripture uh it radically changed my life. So when uh it radically changed my life. So when uh it radically changed my life. So when I talk about whole body theology, I'm I talk about whole body theology, I'm I talk about whole body theology, I'm talking about the entire Bible and how talking about the entire Bible and how talking about the entire Bible and how that works to build a foundational place that works to build a foundational place that works to build a foundational place by which to then understand how to live by which to then understand how to live by which to then understand how to live in my body every single day.

in my body every single day. in my body every single day. >> Oh, I love that. I love that you took us >> Oh, I love that. I love that you took us >> Oh, I love that. I love that you took us to, you know, all four major parts of to, you know, all four major parts of to, you know, all four major parts of the story because, right, we our bodies the story because, right, we our bodies the story because, right, we our bodies were made good. I was even thinking, you were made good. I was even thinking, you were made good. I was even thinking, you know, Genesis 2 where it's like he know, Genesis 2 where it's like he know, Genesis 2 where it's like he formed him. He God formed man's body, formed him. He God formed man's body, formed him. He God formed man's body, breathed life into him. And then we read breathed life into him. And then we read breathed life into him. And then we read they were naked and not ashamed. And they were naked and not ashamed. And they were naked and not ashamed. And it's like, man, we know we lost it's like, man, we know we lost it's like, man, we know we lost something in the fall when I read that. something in the fall when I read that. something in the fall when I read that. I mean, you know, like for I mean, you know, like for I mean, you know, like for >> be fully clothed and ashamed, >> be fully clothed and ashamed, >> be fully clothed and ashamed, >> right? I mean, >> right? I mean, >> right? I mean, >> I know, right? It's so true. And then, >> I know, right? It's so true. And then, >> I know, right? It's so true. And then, you know, and then we start getting this you know, and then we start getting this you know, and then we start getting this glimpse of where the story is headed, glimpse of where the story is headed, glimpse of where the story is headed, even in 1 Corinthians 15, like with the even in 1 Corinthians 15, like with the even in 1 Corinthians 15, like with the resurrected body and what that's going resurrected body and what that's going resurrected body and what that's going to look like and and you know, Jesus as to look like and and you know, Jesus as to look like and and you know, Jesus as an embodied man, which is just so hard an embodied man, which is just so hard an embodied man, which is just so hard to to comprehend. So, I want you you you to to comprehend. So, I want you you you to to comprehend. So, I want you you you threw a lot out there and I want you to threw a lot out there and I want you to threw a lot out there and I want you to unpack it. I want you to go ahead and unpack it. I want you to go ahead and unpack it. I want you to go ahead and like make some of those connections for like make some of those connections for like make some of those connections for us because I think it's so I just think us because I think it's so I just think us because I think it's so I just think it's so key in our understanding. So it's so key in our understanding. So it's so key in our understanding. So when you say um like like the idea that when you say um like like the idea that when you say um like like the idea that Jesus was embodied that that really Jesus was embodied that that really Jesus was embodied that that really changed how you understood your body changed how you understood your body changed how you understood your body like explain that a little bit more.

like explain that a little bit more. like explain that a little bit more. >> Yeah. Well, I even love the fact that >> Yeah. Well, I even love the fact that >> Yeah. Well, I even love the fact that that you were bringing up Genesis 2 that you were bringing up Genesis 2 that you were bringing up Genesis 2 because even like the piece of because even like the piece of because even like the piece of God breathing into Adam and this this God breathing into Adam and this this God breathing into Adam and this this whole you know breathing his spirit into whole you know breathing his spirit into whole you know breathing his spirit into Adam and then becoming nephesh a living Adam and then becoming nephesh a living Adam and then becoming nephesh a living soul. This idea of reliance right? So soul. This idea of reliance right? So soul. This idea of reliance right? So this this reliant peace was always meant this this reliant peace was always meant this this reliant peace was always meant to be but that which we were we were to be but that which we were we were to be but that which we were we were born into we have always been trying to born into we have always been trying to born into we have always been trying to wrestle away from. So you know it let's wrestle away from. So you know it let's wrestle away from. So you know it let's bring this into daily life Courtney. bring this into daily life Courtney. bring this into daily life Courtney. It's like we talk about rest all the It's like we talk about rest all the It's like we talk about rest all the time. We have books on rest. We talk time. We have books on rest. We talk time. We have books on rest. We talk about rest. I need more rest. Let me about rest. I need more rest. Let me about rest. I need more rest. Let me clear out my calendar. All of these clear out my calendar. All of these clear out my calendar. All of these types of things. And I think we're types of things. And I think we're types of things. And I think we're striving for that. But yet the the striving for that. But yet the the striving for that. But yet the the reality is is none of us feel very reality is is none of us feel very reality is is none of us feel very restful. restful. restful. And so when I began to study whole body And so when I began to study whole body And so when I began to study whole body theology and I began to learn about theology and I began to learn about theology and I began to learn about Christ and about what he came to do. So Christ and about what he came to do. So Christ and about what he came to do. So coming to earth living embodied, no coming to earth living embodied, no coming to earth living embodied, no question about it. That's not a mistake question about it. That's not a mistake question about it. That's not a mistake that he's coming and taking on flesh.

that he's coming and taking on flesh. that he's coming and taking on flesh. There's such importance in that that we There's such importance in that that we There's such importance in that that we that we bypass. So I pull all of this that we bypass. So I pull all of this that we bypass. So I pull all of this apart in the study and and so that we apart in the study and and so that we apart in the study and and so that we don't miss that because the way that we don't miss that because the way that we don't miss that because the way that we esteem our bodies and the way that we esteem our bodies and the way that we esteem our bodies and the way that we value our bodies and we look at our value our bodies and we look at our value our bodies and we look at our bodies and the bodies of others by the bodies and the bodies of others by the bodies and the bodies of others by the way way way we have to understand we have to understand we have to understand in the context of him coming and in the context of him coming and in the context of him coming and becoming embodied. So that ought to becoming embodied. So that ought to becoming embodied. So that ought to change the way that we value our own change the way that we value our own change the way that we value our own bodies and others bodies. Okay. But this bodies and others bodies. Okay. But this bodies and others bodies. Okay. But this reliance piece even reliance piece even reliance piece even when when Christ came and then died and when when Christ came and then died and when when Christ came and then died and was crucified that that that reliance was crucified that that that reliance was crucified that that that reliance piece he he died yes so that we could piece he he died yes so that we could piece he he died yes so that we could have turn eternal life but also that we have turn eternal life but also that we have turn eternal life but also that we could have rest in our bodies in the could have rest in our bodies in the could have rest in our bodies in the daily. And so I think even that we were daily. And so I think even that we were daily. And so I think even that we were created for reliance, created for reliance, created for reliance, understanding that from Genesis, understanding that from Genesis, understanding that from Genesis, understanding that through his understanding that through his understanding that through his crucifixion, those are the types of of crucifixion, those are the types of of crucifixion, those are the types of of correlations I help you make through correlations I help you make through correlations I help you make through this study so that you really understand this study so that you really understand this study so that you really understand it's not that just Christ came to die it's not that just Christ came to die it's not that just Christ came to die that you might live in eternity through that you might live in eternity through that you might live in eternity through with him, but that you might also be with him, but that you might also be with him, but that you might also be able to have rest in your body in the able to have rest in your body in the able to have rest in your body in the way that you live daily. And those way that you live daily. And those way that you live daily. And those things are very important that we things are very important that we things are very important that we understand. And so those are the kinds understand. And so those are the kinds understand. And so those are the kinds of things I'm talking about that I hope of things I'm talking about that I hope of things I'm talking about that I hope you understand in a really practical way you understand in a really practical way you understand in a really practical way in the study because I myself in the study because I myself in the study because I myself need the practicality of the word of God need the practicality of the word of God need the practicality of the word of God in the way that I live in my body in the way that I live in my body in the way that I live in my body because my whole life I missed this

because my whole life I missed this because my whole life I missed this piece. I missed this understanding. I piece. I missed this understanding. I piece. I missed this understanding. I went immediately to how many calories do went immediately to how many calories do went immediately to how many calories do I need to take in? How much weight do I I need to take in? How much weight do I I need to take in? How much weight do I need to lose? What size should I be in? need to lose? What size should I be in? need to lose? What size should I be in? Body topics. But I didn't have a Body topics. But I didn't have a Body topics. But I didn't have a foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have a biblical foundation. I didn't have an foundation. I didn't have an foundation. I didn't have an understanding. And when you don't understanding. And when you don't understanding. And when you don't understand that, when you don't understand that, when you don't understand that, when you don't understand what Christ came to do for understand what Christ came to do for understand what Christ came to do for your body, then you won't live this, your body, then you won't live this, your body, then you won't live this, you'll live very differently. You'll you'll live very differently. You'll you'll live very differently. You'll live very much in body topics. live very much in body topics. live very much in body topics. >> So, this is such it leads to this >> So, this is such it leads to this >> So, this is such it leads to this question for me. Um, because and I think question for me. Um, because and I think question for me. Um, because and I think we all know this and I I I think that's we all know this and I I I think that's we all know this and I I I think that's why probably people are listening right why probably people are listening right why probably people are listening right now to this conversation is it's so hard now to this conversation is it's so hard now to this conversation is it's so hard to have a healthy relationship with our to have a healthy relationship with our to have a healthy relationship with our body. And we know what that means even body. And we know what that means even body. And we know what that means even though you think about it you're like though you think about it you're like though you think about it you're like well what do you mean by that? But it's well what do you mean by that? But it's well what do you mean by that? But it's how we're thinking about what we're we how we're thinking about what we're we how we're thinking about what we're we have in some ways what we're wearing. have in some ways what we're wearing. have in some ways what we're wearing. And so what does it even look like to And so what does it even look like to And so what does it even look like to have a healthy relationship with your have a healthy relationship with your have a healthy relationship with your body? Like how would you either of you body? Like how would you either of you body? Like how would you either of you describe like um have you had a season describe like um have you had a season describe like um have you had a season where you feel like yeah this feels like where you feel like yeah this feels like where you feel like yeah this feels like a healthy understanding of what my body a healthy understanding of what my body a healthy understanding of what my body is created to do and I'm living in that is created to do and I'm living in that is created to do and I'm living in that freedom because to me there's bondage is freedom because to me there's bondage is freedom because to me there's bondage is always related you know to slavery to always related you know to slavery to always related you know to slavery to sin and all of these things and and I sin and all of these things and and I sin and all of these things and and I think a lot of us feel that you know think a lot of us feel that you know think a lot of us feel that you know that like enslaved to Oh, I have to that like enslaved to Oh, I have to that like enslaved to Oh, I have to uh deal with this body, not enjoy this

uh deal with this body, not enjoy this uh deal with this body, not enjoy this body. So, so what does freedom look like body. So, so what does freedom look like body. So, so what does freedom look like when we think about what we've been when we think about what we've been when we think about what we've been given in these these mortal frames? given in these these mortal frames? given in these these mortal frames? >> I think that's a great question because >> I think that's a great question because >> I think that's a great question because a lot of us don't know, right? For me, I a lot of us don't know, right? For me, I a lot of us don't know, right? For me, I will tell you for me what it's looked will tell you for me what it's looked will tell you for me what it's looked like. And by the way, I will say that like. And by the way, I will say that like. And by the way, I will say that for a long time, my question to the Lord for a long time, my question to the Lord for a long time, my question to the Lord was, "Will I ever be free?" Will I ever was, "Will I ever be free?" Will I ever was, "Will I ever be free?" Will I ever be free? which I think is something that be free? which I think is something that be free? which I think is something that a lot of us grapple with. We don't know a lot of us grapple with. We don't know a lot of us grapple with. We don't know if we will ever be free. And what I if we will ever be free. And what I if we will ever be free. And what I think we're looking for is freedom from think we're looking for is freedom from think we're looking for is freedom from the things that I'm going to name for the things that I'm going to name for the things that I'm going to name for you because this is what a healthy you because this is what a healthy you because this is what a healthy relationship for me has looked like. Um relationship for me has looked like. Um relationship for me has looked like. Um no more self self-loathing in my body. no more self self-loathing in my body. no more self self-loathing in my body. Um, no more consuming body thoughts or Um, no more consuming body thoughts or Um, no more consuming body thoughts or living in extremes, either obsessing living in extremes, either obsessing living in extremes, either obsessing over my body or neglecting my body. over my body or neglecting my body. over my body or neglecting my body. Because when you're in line with the Because when you're in line with the Because when you're in line with the scriptural scriptural scriptural um motive and purpose for you, which I I um motive and purpose for you, which I I um motive and purpose for you, which I I believe as it relates to how we live in believe as it relates to how we live in believe as it relates to how we live in our bodies is 1 Corinthians 10:31, which our bodies is 1 Corinthians 10:31, which our bodies is 1 Corinthians 10:31, which is uh whether you eat or drink or is uh whether you eat or drink or is uh whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of whatever you do, do all to the glory of whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. I call it living with a glory God. I call it living with a glory God. I call it living with a glory mentality. Uh which is what I've adopted mentality. Uh which is what I've adopted mentality. Uh which is what I've adopted now and that's how I live.

now and that's how I live. now and that's how I live. When you're in line with that, it When you're in line with that, it When you're in line with that, it changes changes changes the way that you now relate to your body the way that you now relate to your body the way that you now relate to your body and your relationship with your your and your relationship with your your and your relationship with your your body. I can't have you have lived my body. I can't have you have lived my body. I can't have you have lived my life with me, but so you kind of have to life with me, but so you kind of have to life with me, but so you kind of have to take my word for it, but what I can tell take my word for it, but what I can tell take my word for it, but what I can tell you is that my whole life I've had you is that my whole life I've had you is that my whole life I've had consuming thoughts about my body like consuming thoughts about my body like consuming thoughts about my body like every day. Every day thinking about my every day. Every day thinking about my every day. Every day thinking about my body every day. And usually not in a body every day. And usually not in a body every day. And usually not in a great way. Some sometimes I've been, you great way. Some sometimes I've been, you great way. Some sometimes I've been, you know, thinking I was kind of cute today, know, thinking I was kind of cute today, know, thinking I was kind of cute today, but I mean a lot of times it's been like but I mean a lot of times it's been like but I mean a lot of times it's been like I'm a little chubby. Am I the biggest I'm a little chubby. Am I the biggest I'm a little chubby. Am I the biggest woman in the room? You know, all these woman in the room? You know, all these woman in the room? You know, all these kinds of like consuming thoughts about kinds of like consuming thoughts about kinds of like consuming thoughts about my body. my body. my body. >> And I do not have that anymore. I just >> And I do not have that anymore. I just >> And I do not have that anymore. I just do not have that anymore. I really do not have that anymore. I really do not have that anymore. I really don't. And I feel free from that. But I don't. And I feel free from that. But I don't. And I feel free from that. But I want to say here that it is hard and I I want to say here that it is hard and I I want to say here that it is hard and I I really want to speak this because I really want to speak this because I really want to speak this because I think it's important to acknowledge it. think it's important to acknowledge it. think it's important to acknowledge it. It is hard to have a healthy It is hard to have a healthy It is hard to have a healthy relationship with your body relationship with your body relationship with your body for a great many of us because of the for a great many of us because of the for a great many of us because of the fact we don't have the foundational fact we don't have the foundational fact we don't have the foundational piece because we have never developed it piece because we have never developed it piece because we have never developed it because we were not taught it. I mean it because we were not taught it. I mean it because we were not taught it. I mean it that's just the plain and simple truth that's just the plain and simple truth that's just the plain and simple truth of it. Most of us were never taught that of it. Most of us were never taught that of it. Most of us were never taught that because our mothers were never taught because our mothers were never taught because our mothers were never taught that because the church just doesn't that because the church just doesn't that because the church just doesn't teach that or has not in the past taught teach that or has not in the past taught teach that or has not in the past taught that. And I think it's important to that. And I think it's important to that. And I think it's important to acknowledge that we also are influenced acknowledge that we also are influenced acknowledge that we also are influenced by secular culture which as we know does by secular culture which as we know does by secular culture which as we know does not have a biblical basis for anything.

not have a biblical basis for anything. not have a biblical basis for anything. Uh we also have trauma that we're Uh we also have trauma that we're Uh we also have trauma that we're dealing with that many of us don't want dealing with that many of us don't want dealing with that many of us don't want to get real about carrying a lot of to get real about carrying a lot of to get real about carrying a lot of shame. Uh and we yes we we do have some shame. Uh and we yes we we do have some shame. Uh and we yes we we do have some sin in our bodies also that we we just sin in our bodies also that we we just sin in our bodies also that we we just you know don't want to deal with. And you know don't want to deal with. And you know don't want to deal with. And then also I will say we have information then also I will say we have information then also I will say we have information overload. And so a lot of us are in this overload. And so a lot of us are in this overload. And so a lot of us are in this sort of freeze mode and we don't know sort of freeze mode and we don't know sort of freeze mode and we don't know what to do about it. So we just kind of what to do about it. So we just kind of what to do about it. So we just kind of either freeze or we just say let me just either freeze or we just say let me just either freeze or we just say let me just get more supplements or let me just, you get more supplements or let me just, you get more supplements or let me just, you know, buy another program that I've know, buy another program that I've know, buy another program that I've heard about cuz surely this will do it heard about cuz surely this will do it heard about cuz surely this will do it >> and we stay stuck in body topic land. >> and we stay stuck in body topic land. >> and we stay stuck in body topic land. Which by the way, I'm not against any of Which by the way, I'm not against any of Which by the way, I'm not against any of that. I take some supplements. I think that. I take some supplements. I think that. I take some supplements. I think it's great. But it's not great if you it's great. But it's not great if you it's great. But it's not great if you don't have a foundation first because don't have a foundation first because don't have a foundation first because then you just don't know what you're then you just don't know what you're then you just don't know what you're doing. you're just taking more and more doing. you're just taking more and more doing. you're just taking more and more hoping that it sticks, right? hoping that it sticks, right? hoping that it sticks, right? >> Well, maybe looking for maybe seeking >> Well, maybe looking for maybe seeking >> Well, maybe looking for maybe seeking the wrong thing in that. I mean, I it's, the wrong thing in that. I mean, I it's, the wrong thing in that. I mean, I it's, you know, this is we're just this is you know, this is we're just this is you know, this is we're just this is basically a personal counseling session basically a personal counseling session basically a personal counseling session for me. So, thank you for coming on to, for me. So, thank you for coming on to, for me. So, thank you for coming on to, you know, to help me through all of you know, to help me through all of you know, to help me through all of this. But, you know, it's so true. Just this. But, you know, it's so true. Just this. But, you know, it's so true. Just like constantly looking for the next like constantly looking for the next like constantly looking for the next thing that is going to fix what I don't thing that is going to fix what I don't thing that is going to fix what I don't like, which as I age is in an increasing like, which as I age is in an increasing like, which as I age is in an increasing number of things. And so this idea of number of things. And so this idea of number of things. And so this idea of like you're right getting the the like you're right getting the the like you're right getting the the foundation or what I like to say is the foundation or what I like to say is the foundation or what I like to say is the better vision like the better vision for better vision like the better vision for better vision like the better vision for um I think a lot of us were raised a lot um I think a lot of us were raised a lot um I think a lot of us were raised a lot of us believe a lot of us live in the of us believe a lot of us live in the of us believe a lot of us live in the world. I like how you said body topics world. I like how you said body topics world. I like how you said body topics but I think we tend to think of form or

but I think we tend to think of form or but I think we tend to think of form or function right when we think of our function right when we think of our function right when we think of our bodies. And so we're either kind of bodies. And so we're either kind of bodies. And so we're either kind of hyperfocused on its form or hyperfocused hyperfocused on its form or hyperfocused hyperfocused on its form or hyperfocused on its function. And both of those on its function. And both of those on its function. And both of those things fail as we age. both the forum things fail as we age. both the forum things fail as we age. both the forum and the function, but they also are and the function, but they also are and the function, but they also are they're they're not worthy goals to they're they're not worthy goals to they're they're not worthy goals to pursue. And that that took me I mean I'm pursue. And that that took me I mean I'm pursue. And that that took me I mean I'm 57 now. That took me a long time to get 57 now. That took me a long time to get 57 now. That took me a long time to get to that place of of saying I kind of to that place of of saying I kind of to that place of of saying I kind of shifted from pursuing form as the shifted from pursuing form as the shifted from pursuing form as the ultimate good which is a whole part of ultimate good which is a whole part of ultimate good which is a whole part of my you know my story and then function my you know my story and then function my you know my story and then function and even that can be there can be a good and even that can be there can be a good and even that can be there can be a good and right thing in both of them right and right thing in both of them right and right thing in both of them right but we can take either one to the but we can take either one to the but we can take either one to the extreme and I think what you're saying I extreme and I think what you're saying I extreme and I think what you're saying I think correct me like I really this think correct me like I really this think correct me like I really this really is a personal counseling session really is a personal counseling session really is a personal counseling session so neither one of those are foundational so neither one of those are foundational so neither one of those are foundational or ultimate, or ultimate, or ultimate, >> right? Well, and also let me add, we >> right? Well, and also let me add, we >> right? Well, and also let me add, we also have like a good and bad um body also have like a good and bad um body also have like a good and bad um body failure system, right? So, either we failure system, right? So, either we failure system, right? So, either we have like this failure or we have this have like this failure or we have this have like this failure or we have this success. Um, you know, yes, I think success. Um, you know, yes, I think success. Um, you know, yes, I think you're you're you've nailed it. The you're you're you've nailed it. The you're you're you've nailed it. The other thing that is interesting is some other thing that is interesting is some other thing that is interesting is some people will say, well, I don't either people will say, well, I don't either people will say, well, I don't either obsess over my body or neglect my body.

obsess over my body or neglect my body. obsess over my body or neglect my body. I'm good because my desire is just to be I'm good because my desire is just to be I'm good because my desire is just to be healthy or strong. And I'm like, here's healthy or strong. And I'm like, here's healthy or strong. And I'm like, here's the thing about it. There there's the thing about it. There there's the thing about it. There there's nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy or strong, but and and and and I'm going or strong, but and and and and I'm going or strong, but and and and and I'm going to challenge a bit here. It's not it's to challenge a bit here. It's not it's to challenge a bit here. It's not it's not a biblical motive, though. If we're not a biblical motive, though. If we're not a biblical motive, though. If we're really going to be in line with really going to be in line with really going to be in line with scripture, and I think a lot of us want scripture, and I think a lot of us want scripture, and I think a lot of us want to live in line with scripture, right? to live in line with scripture, right? to live in line with scripture, right? So, if we're going to really be So, if we're going to really be So, if we're going to really be biblically minded here and if we're biblically minded here and if we're biblically minded here and if we're talking whole body theology, talking whole body theology, talking whole body theology, then in scripture, if we're going to then in scripture, if we're going to then in scripture, if we're going to live with a motive, it is to bring glory live with a motive, it is to bring glory live with a motive, it is to bring glory to God. Now, when you bring glory to God to God. Now, when you bring glory to God to God. Now, when you bring glory to God because God is full of goodness and good because God is full of goodness and good because God is full of goodness and good things, health and strength is generally things, health and strength is generally things, health and strength is generally going to accompany movement with your going to accompany movement with your going to accompany movement with your body, right? You're probably going to body, right? You're probably going to body, right? You're probably going to get healthy. You're probably going to get healthy. You're probably going to get healthy. You're probably going to get strong. get strong. get strong. But the motive to be healthy or strong But the motive to be healthy or strong But the motive to be healthy or strong is still not the ultimate motive. It is is still not the ultimate motive. It is is still not the ultimate motive. It is whatever you eat, whether you eat or whatever you eat, whether you eat or whatever you eat, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, is to bring drink or whatever you do, is to bring drink or whatever you do, is to bring glory to God. So I I it's just glory to God. So I I it's just glory to God. So I I it's just interesting when people say, you know, interesting when people say, you know, interesting when people say, you know, it's I I I don't want to lose weight. I it's I I I don't want to lose weight. I it's I I I don't want to lose weight. I just want to get healthy. I just want to just want to get healthy. I just want to just want to get healthy. I just want to get strong. And I'm like, girl, I I I get strong. And I'm like, girl, I I I get strong. And I'm like, girl, I I I love you. Good on you. But still, I'm love you. Good on you. But still, I'm love you. Good on you. But still, I'm pushing back a little bit because what pushing back a little bit because what pushing back a little bit because what about just bringing glory to God?

about just bringing glory to God? about just bringing glory to God? Because here's the thing with whole body Because here's the thing with whole body Because here's the thing with whole body theology, Courtney. It is not a theology, Courtney. It is not a theology, Courtney. It is not a respector of persons. And at a certain respector of persons. And at a certain respector of persons. And at a certain point, you mentioned aging. There's point, you mentioned aging. There's point, you mentioned aging. There's also, you know, we may become disabled also, you know, we may become disabled also, you know, we may become disabled in our bodies. We may have a chronic in our bodies. We may have a chronic in our bodies. We may have a chronic illness. At a certain point, the beauty illness. At a certain point, the beauty illness. At a certain point, the beauty of whole body theology is it leaves of whole body theology is it leaves of whole body theology is it leaves nobody out. nobody out. nobody out. >> We can bring glory to God in our bodies >> We can bring glory to God in our bodies >> We can bring glory to God in our bodies no matter what. I mean, Johnny Ericson no matter what. I mean, Johnny Ericson no matter what. I mean, Johnny Ericson Tatada is my life hero. Tatada is my life hero. Tatada is my life hero. >> And she sits in a wheelchair and has for >> And she sits in a wheelchair and has for >> And she sits in a wheelchair and has for many, many years and has been on my show many, many years and has been on my show many, many years and has been on my show and talked about how she experiences and talked about how she experiences and talked about how she experiences pain. pain. pain. No one would go up to her and be No one would go up to her and be No one would go up to her and be offensive enough to say like, "Girl, offensive enough to say like, "Girl, offensive enough to say like, "Girl, it's not how you look, it's how you it's not how you look, it's how you it's not how you look, it's how you feel." You know, but that's like a feel." You know, but that's like a feel." You know, but that's like a mantra of society. mantra of society. mantra of society. And if you really think about some of And if you really think about some of And if you really think about some of the nonsense we put out with like these the nonsense we put out with like these the nonsense we put out with like these sound bites, it just doesn't it just sound bites, it just doesn't it just sound bites, it just doesn't it just doesn't gel with scripture even. So, doesn't gel with scripture even. So, doesn't gel with scripture even. So, >> and living with that goal in mind might >> and living with that goal in mind might >> and living with that goal in mind might actually cause your body to physically actually cause your body to physically actually cause your body to physically suffer. Mhm.

suffer. Mhm. suffer. Mhm. >> I mean, we have the example of Christ, >> I mean, we have the example of Christ, >> I mean, we have the example of Christ, >> but like Paul was beaten. He was >> but like Paul was beaten. He was >> but like Paul was beaten. He was shipped, right? You know, his ultimate shipped, right? You know, his ultimate shipped, right? You know, his ultimate goal was not sh be strong and healthy. goal was not sh be strong and healthy. goal was not sh be strong and healthy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> His ultimate goal was take this flesh >> His ultimate goal was take this flesh >> His ultimate goal was take this flesh and let it glorify God in however that and let it glorify God in however that and let it glorify God in however that might come. And so sometimes I think you might come. And so sometimes I think you might come. And so sometimes I think you we're all, oh, I just have to get we're all, oh, I just have to get we're all, oh, I just have to get balanced because that glorifies God. balanced because that glorifies God. balanced because that glorifies God. I don't know. I don't see that in I don't know. I don't see that in I don't know. I don't see that in scripture. you know, we're and it it's scripture. you know, we're and it it's scripture. you know, we're and it it's not that we should be unhealthy. It's not that we should be unhealthy. It's not that we should be unhealthy. It's not that we should ignore our bodies. not that we should ignore our bodies. not that we should ignore our bodies. It's, you know, whatever. But we need to It's, you know, whatever. But we need to It's, you know, whatever. But we need to follow God into what he's asked us to follow God into what he's asked us to follow God into what he's asked us to do. And that might mean we skipped that do. And that might mean we skipped that do. And that might mean we skipped that workout because we needed to counsel workout because we needed to counsel workout because we needed to counsel that friend. And that day that might that friend. And that day that might that friend. And that day that might have been the right thing to glorify have been the right thing to glorify have been the right thing to glorify God. But if my highest good is, oh, I God. But if my highest good is, oh, I God. But if my highest good is, oh, I always balance my macros. always balance my macros. always balance my macros. >> Yes. Or whatever we, you know, it could >> Yes. Or whatever we, you know, it could >> Yes. Or whatever we, you know, it could just be self-centered living. It could just be self-centered living. It could just be self-centered living. It could be. I'm not saying it always is. It's be. I'm not saying it always is. It's be. I'm not saying it always is. It's it's this we have to listen to the it's this we have to listen to the it's this we have to listen to the spirit, follow the Lord. Sometimes we spirit, follow the Lord. Sometimes we spirit, follow the Lord. Sometimes we need to have boundaries. No, I need to need to have boundaries. No, I need to need to have boundaries. No, I need to go walk. That's the best thing I can do go walk. That's the best thing I can do go walk. That's the best thing I can do today, you know. But it's today, you know. But it's today, you know. But it's >> it's not the goal to be strong and >> it's not the goal to be strong and >> it's not the goal to be strong and healthy. I like that. The goal is to healthy. I like that. The goal is to healthy. I like that. The goal is to glorify God.

glorify God. glorify God. >> Well, and here's my point. My point >> Well, and here's my point. My point >> Well, and here's my point. My point really, my biggest point is if you live really, my biggest point is if you live really, my biggest point is if you live 1 Corinthians 10:31, if you live with a 1 Corinthians 10:31, if you live with a 1 Corinthians 10:31, if you live with a glory mentality, okay, you will probably glory mentality, okay, you will probably glory mentality, okay, you will probably be in the balance. We'll use the word be in the balance. We'll use the word be in the balance. We'll use the word because everyone loves that word even because everyone loves that word even because everyone loves that word even though none of us really know what it though none of us really know what it though none of us really know what it is. But like I get what it is. It's like is. But like I get what it is. It's like is. But like I get what it is. It's like in some ways it's just the not going in some ways it's just the not going in some ways it's just the not going into the self-loathing. It's the not into the self-loathing. It's the not into the self-loathing. It's the not obsess or neglect, right? obsess or neglect, right? obsess or neglect, right? I believe you will be in that space I believe you will be in that space I believe you will be in that space because I that does not mean you will be because I that does not mean you will be because I that does not mean you will be perfect because we are not perfect. We perfect because we are not perfect. We perfect because we are not perfect. We are humans who do not live in a perfect are humans who do not live in a perfect are humans who do not live in a perfect space. So part of part of our problem is space. So part of part of our problem is space. So part of part of our problem is we've got to drop that. But when you are we've got to drop that. But when you are we've got to drop that. But when you are living 1 Corinthians 10:31, when you are living 1 Corinthians 10:31, when you are living 1 Corinthians 10:31, when you are living with that motive and that goal, living with that motive and that goal, living with that motive and that goal, when you when you understand whole body when you when you understand whole body when you when you understand whole body theology in the in the in the idea of theology in the in the in the idea of theology in the in the in the idea of scripture being not just a cherrypicked scripture being not just a cherrypicked scripture being not just a cherrypicked verse here or there, but when you verse here or there, but when you verse here or there, but when you understand understand understand Christ and and and the the application Christ and and and the the application Christ and and and the the application of his embodied self for your body, then of his embodied self for your body, then of his embodied self for your body, then you will, I believe, live your life in you will, I believe, live your life in you will, I believe, live your life in much greater balance. You will live with much greater balance. You will live with much greater balance. You will live with a common sense approach, a holy spirit a common sense approach, a holy spirit a common sense approach, a holy spirit approach and it will remove approach and it will remove approach and it will remove the consuming body thoughts. I do the consuming body thoughts. I do the consuming body thoughts. I do believe because I will just speak from believe because I will just speak from believe because I will just speak from my experience that is what it has done my experience that is what it has done my experience that is what it has done for me. And as a person who is not young for me. And as a person who is not young for me. And as a person who is not young and who has lived my life with all and who has lived my life with all and who has lived my life with all manner of struggle in my body, including manner of struggle in my body, including manner of struggle in my body, including an eating disorder and including just I

an eating disorder and including just I an eating disorder and including just I mean literally all kinds of I I I mean I mean literally all kinds of I I I mean I mean literally all kinds of I I I mean I I can tell you I've been through it in I can tell you I've been through it in I can tell you I've been through it in my body. That is what it has done for my body. That is what it has done for my body. That is what it has done for me. me. me. >> Can I ask a question for you both? >> Can I ask a question for you both? >> Can I ask a question for you both? >> Do you all remember the first time as a >> Do you all remember the first time as a >> Do you all remember the first time as a young woman you felt young woman you felt young woman you felt Oh. Mhm. Oh. Mhm. Oh. Mhm. >> Maybe something might be wrong with my >> Maybe something might be wrong with my >> Maybe something might be wrong with my body. I can remember the first time like body. I can remember the first time like body. I can remember the first time like I remember distinctly I was on a boat I remember distinctly I was on a boat I remember distinctly I was on a boat with um my dad, another dad and a with um my dad, another dad and a with um my dad, another dad and a friend, you know, it was a good trip. It friend, you know, it was a good trip. It friend, you know, it was a good trip. It wasn't there was nothing. But the dad wasn't there was nothing. But the dad wasn't there was nothing. But the dad the other dad said something to me. I the other dad said something to me. I the other dad said something to me. I was eating a donut carefree was eating a donut carefree was eating a donut carefree on in a in a swimsuit on on a boat. I on in a in a swimsuit on on a boat. I on in a in a swimsuit on on a boat. I wasn't that old. He's like, "Yeah, enjoy wasn't that old. He's like, "Yeah, enjoy wasn't that old. He's like, "Yeah, enjoy it while you're young." Mhm. it while you're young." Mhm. it while you're young." Mhm. >> And and I'd never forgotten it because >> And and I'd never forgotten it because >> And and I'd never forgotten it because it was the first time I was like, "What it was the first time I was like, "What it was the first time I was like, "What is he talking about?" You I never is he talking about?" You I never is he talking about?" You I never thought about, which could be wrong, thought about, which could be wrong, thought about, which could be wrong, never to think about the food you put in never to think about the food you put in never to think about the food you put in your body. I mean, but I had never your body. I mean, but I had never your body. I mean, but I had never really associated He was associating me really associated He was associating me really associated He was associating me eating that donut.

eating that donut. eating that donut. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> With it might go badly for you in the >> With it might go badly for you in the >> With it might go badly for you in the future. future. future. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, and it was just this I mean, I >> You know, and it was just this I mean, I >> You know, and it was just this I mean, I still remember this, you know, and I was still remember this, you know, and I was still remember this, you know, and I was like, "Oo, I got to be careful." Yeah. I like, "Oo, I got to be careful." Yeah. I like, "Oo, I got to be careful." Yeah. I remember pitching the idea that I should remember pitching the idea that I should remember pitching the idea that I should maybe just drink tab and eat wheat maybe just drink tab and eat wheat maybe just drink tab and eat wheat thins. So that kind of dates me right thins. So that kind of dates me right thins. So that kind of dates me right there. Drink tab and eat wheat thins. there. Drink tab and eat wheat thins. there. Drink tab and eat wheat thins. Voicing that out loud and um being told Voicing that out loud and um being told Voicing that out loud and um being told by the person I was, you know, talking by the person I was, you know, talking by the person I was, you know, talking with like I think that's a good idea. with like I think that's a good idea. with like I think that's a good idea. And I was probably fifth grade. And I was probably fifth grade. And I was probably fifth grade. >> I had a similar experience with you, >> I had a similar experience with you, >> I had a similar experience with you, Melissa, with my grandmother. But I Melissa, with my grandmother. But I Melissa, with my grandmother. But I remember I don't remember I think it was remember I don't remember I think it was remember I don't remember I think it was probably in 8th grade although I think I probably in 8th grade although I think I probably in 8th grade although I think I had experiences before this but one had experiences before this but one had experiences before this but one stands out with a boyfriend that I had stands out with a boyfriend that I had stands out with a boyfriend that I had and he wrote me a note and he said and he wrote me a note and he said and he wrote me a note and he said I thought I need to apologize to you. I I thought I need to apologize to you. I I thought I need to apologize to you. I actually thought you were chubby and actually thought you were chubby and actually thought you were chubby and then I put my hand my arm around your then I put my hand my arm around your then I put my hand my arm around your waist and I realized you really aren't waist and I realized you really aren't waist and I realized you really aren't fat and I thought fat and I thought fat and I thought I think that was a compliment but I'm I think that was a compliment but I'm I think that was a compliment but I'm not sure. Yeah.

not sure. Yeah. not sure. Yeah. >> Wow. The power of words. But I I do >> Wow. The power of words. But I I do >> Wow. The power of words. But I I do think like no matter where we're coming think like no matter where we're coming think like no matter where we're coming in whether like we're all kind of in whether like we're all kind of in whether like we're all kind of talking about our struggle being more talking about our struggle being more talking about our struggle being more with form, right? And I would say that with form, right? And I would say that with form, right? And I would say that more of my struggle has been with form, more of my struggle has been with form, more of my struggle has been with form, but I also have a lot of friends and and but I also have a lot of friends and and but I also have a lot of friends and and and I'm the more I age, the more I'm and I'm the more I age, the more I'm and I'm the more I age, the more I'm dealing with function, too. But like dealing with function, too. But like dealing with function, too. But like function as women, that starts playing function as women, that starts playing function as women, that starts playing into it. Whether it's in, you know, into it. Whether it's in, you know, into it. Whether it's in, you know, relationship to how our bodies are are relationship to how our bodies are are relationship to how our bodies are are able or not able to bear children or to able or not able to bear children or to able or not able to bear children or to um you know, do the energy level. I have um you know, do the energy level. I have um you know, do the energy level. I have a good friend that that struggles a lot a good friend that that struggles a lot a good friend that that struggles a lot with just low energy. she has a chronic with just low energy. she has a chronic with just low energy. she has a chronic um illness that causes like the energy um illness that causes like the energy um illness that causes like the energy itself to be a problem. And so like we itself to be a problem. And so like we itself to be a problem. And so like we just struggle and so even as you were just struggle and so even as you were just struggle and so even as you were talking Lisa and you were talking about talking Lisa and you were talking about talking Lisa and you were talking about like even being strong and healthy as a like even being strong and healthy as a like even being strong and healthy as a as a as a goal, it's just not the as a as a goal, it's just not the as a as a goal, it's just not the ultimate goal. Like there's nothing ultimate goal. Like there's nothing ultimate goal. Like there's nothing wrong with being strong and healthy. We wrong with being strong and healthy. We wrong with being strong and healthy. We just want to say this over and over. just want to say this over and over. just want to say this over and over. There is nothing wrong with that. It's There is nothing wrong with that. It's There is nothing wrong with that. It's just that so often it is put out there just that so often it is put out there just that so often it is put out there for us as the ultimate goal. And yet if for us as the ultimate goal. And yet if for us as the ultimate goal. And yet if God gives us long enough years, we will God gives us long enough years, we will God gives us long enough years, we will no longer be strong and healthy. So does no longer be strong and healthy. So does no longer be strong and healthy. So does the value of our body change? Does the the value of our body change? Does the the value of our body change? Does the value of our personhood change as both value of our personhood change as both value of our personhood change as both form and function wayne? Either either form and function wayne? Either either form and function wayne? Either either we struggle with them throughout life or we struggle with them throughout life or we struggle with them throughout life or at the end of life. We will all struggle at the end of life. We will all struggle at the end of life. We will all struggle with that, you know. And so what you're with that, you know. And so what you're with that, you know. And so what you're saying is no. um that it's actually our

saying is no. um that it's actually our saying is no. um that it's actually our worth, our value is not tied to the form worth, our value is not tied to the form worth, our value is not tied to the form or the function of our body, but it's or the function of our body, but it's or the function of our body, but it's tied to the fact that God himself tied to the fact that God himself tied to the fact that God himself uh created our bodies just you know uh created our bodies just you know uh created our bodies just you know ordained that we would be embodied ordained that we would be embodied ordained that we would be embodied people that this is how we are supposed people that this is how we are supposed people that this is how we are supposed to go through life and that ultimately to go through life and that ultimately to go through life and that ultimately we have this beautiful vision that with we have this beautiful vision that with we have this beautiful vision that with our bodies like you were even talking our bodies like you were even talking our bodies like you were even talking about with Paul and the things that about with Paul and the things that about with Paul and the things that happened to his body that that can happened to his body that that can happened to his body that that can actually bring glory to God. Um, and actually bring glory to God. Um, and actually bring glory to God. Um, and that's an incredible thing. You know, I that's an incredible thing. You know, I that's an incredible thing. You know, I had a few things in seminary that were had a few things in seminary that were had a few things in seminary that were paradigm shifters for me. And one of paradigm shifters for me. And one of paradigm shifters for me. And one of them was coming to grips with it was them was coming to grips with it was them was coming to grips with it was kind of the creaturliness or the kind of the creaturliness or the kind of the creaturliness or the earthiness of our bodies that we're so earthiness of our bodies that we're so earthiness of our bodies that we're so finite and we're so dependent back to finite and we're so dependent back to finite and we're so dependent back to what you started talking about. We're so what you started talking about. We're so what you started talking about. We're so dependent on food and water and sleep dependent on food and water and sleep dependent on food and water and sleep and clothes and protection. like our and clothes and protection. like our and clothes and protection. like our bodies are one little thing goes wrong bodies are one little thing goes wrong bodies are one little thing goes wrong and everything is you know I think about and everything is you know I think about and everything is you know I think about the impact of you know an accident or the impact of you know an accident or the impact of you know an accident or something and how it could just it just something and how it could just it just something and how it could just it just crushes your I mean you could just like crushes your I mean you could just like crushes your I mean you could just like the body can just die because our bodies the body can just die because our bodies the body can just die because our bodies are actually really frail and really are actually really frail and really are actually really frail and really finite. I have no idea where I'm going finite. I have no idea where I'm going finite. I have no idea where I'm going with this but again I'm just processing with this but again I'm just processing with this but again I'm just processing out loud the things that I'm thinking as out loud the things that I'm thinking as out loud the things that I'm thinking as you're talking because this is so you're talking because this is so you're talking because this is so helpful. So let me let me ask a question helpful. So let me let me ask a question helpful. So let me let me ask a question then. Is there anything about this then. Is there anything about this then. Is there anything about this struggle that I that I have that a lot struggle that I that I have that a lot struggle that I that I have that a lot of us have that is unique to Christians?

of us have that is unique to Christians? of us have that is unique to Christians? Um Um Um >> or is is this just common to man? >> or is is this just common to man? >> or is is this just common to man? >> Yeah, I think that's a great question. >> Yeah, I think that's a great question. >> Yeah, I think that's a great question. Um Um Um yes, I well yes and no. I think that uh yes, I well yes and no. I think that uh yes, I well yes and no. I think that uh the struggle is real for all of us the struggle is real for all of us the struggle is real for all of us because of our human our humanity because of our human our humanity because of our human our humanity obviously. So we all struggle in some obviously. So we all struggle in some obviously. So we all struggle in some way with way with way with our bodies and I think in judging other our bodies and I think in judging other our bodies and I think in judging other bodies. So that is uh universal. I do bodies. So that is uh universal. I do bodies. So that is uh universal. I do want to say too in response to what you want to say too in response to what you want to say too in response to what you were talking about I mean this brings up were talking about I mean this brings up were talking about I mean this brings up a lot. So when we're talking about this a lot. So when we're talking about this a lot. So when we're talking about this I I find myself in the same space as I I find myself in the same space as I I find myself in the same space as what you were talking about where my what you were talking about where my what you were talking about where my mind is just going to a million mind is just going to a million mind is just going to a million different things because we have been different things because we have been different things because we have been through so much in our bodies. The through so much in our bodies. The through so much in our bodies. The beauty of the way that we were created beauty of the way that we were created beauty of the way that we were created was that we were all created I mean in was that we were all created I mean in was that we were all created I mean in the image of God. We've heard it but I the image of God. We've heard it but I the image of God. We've heard it but I don't think we quite understand the don't think we quite understand the don't think we quite understand the enormity of a mo day. And if we were we enormity of a mo day. And if we were we enormity of a mo day. And if we were we would we would walk around quite would we would walk around quite would we would walk around quite differently. We have we are searching differently. We have we are searching differently. We have we are searching our whole lives for this value piece our whole lives for this value piece our whole lives for this value piece when in reality there is no higher value when in reality there is no higher value when in reality there is no higher value that any of us could have been given but that any of us could have been given but that any of us could have been given but to be created in the image of God. We to be created in the image of God. We to be created in the image of God. We have it. We were given it. Every single have it. We were given it. Every single have it. We were given it. Every single person on the face of this earth. Now person on the face of this earth. Now person on the face of this earth. Now >> one difference in believers is and and

>> one difference in believers is and and >> one difference in believers is and and and you may have heard this illustration and you may have heard this illustration and you may have heard this illustration in a glove. I'll give that in a minute. in a glove. I'll give that in a minute. in a glove. I'll give that in a minute. We were all made in the image of God. We were all made in the image of God. We were all made in the image of God. However, Christians can image God in the However, Christians can image God in the However, Christians can image God in the way that we live. So, there's a small way that we live. So, there's a small way that we live. So, there's a small distinction there. I talk about that a distinction there. I talk about that a distinction there. I talk about that a bit in the study, but uh if you've ever bit in the study, but uh if you've ever bit in the study, but uh if you've ever heard of the glove illustration, I think heard of the glove illustration, I think heard of the glove illustration, I think it's it's the best way to say this. So, it's it's the best way to say this. So, it's it's the best way to say this. So, a glove is made in the image of a hand. a glove is made in the image of a hand. a glove is made in the image of a hand. But the way that the glove has the best But the way that the glove has the best But the way that the glove has the best function is when a hand goes in it, function is when a hand goes in it, function is when a hand goes in it, right? Its best function is that. So, right? Its best function is that. So, right? Its best function is that. So, that's that's that's >> I've never heard that. Oh, I just think >> I've never heard that. Oh, I just think >> I've never heard that. Oh, I just think it's such a I didn't come up with it. I it's such a I didn't come up with it. I it's such a I didn't come up with it. I can't I have the credit for it. But I can't I have the credit for it. But I can't I have the credit for it. But I love that illustration because it best love that illustration because it best love that illustration because it best it best illustrates it best illustrates it best illustrates being made in the image of God, all of being made in the image of God, all of being made in the image of God, all of us, but the way that Christians can us, but the way that Christians can us, but the way that Christians can image God in the way that we live image God in the way that we live image God in the way that we live because we have the living God inside of because we have the living God inside of because we have the living God inside of us. The Holy Spirit is living inside of us. The Holy Spirit is living inside of us. The Holy Spirit is living inside of us. So there is a distinction there. Uh us. So there is a distinction there. Uh us. So there is a distinction there. Uh very very crucial distinction that's very very crucial distinction that's very very crucial distinction that's unique to Christians. I also without unique to Christians. I also without unique to Christians. I also without being a believer and understanding being a believer and understanding being a believer and understanding having the understanding of the word of having the understanding of the word of having the understanding of the word of God, you could not be able to have whole God, you could not be able to have whole God, you could not be able to have whole body theology crystallized for you. So body theology crystallized for you. So body theology crystallized for you. So that is a very big difference in the way that is a very big difference in the way that is a very big difference in the way that you would be able to truly that you would be able to truly that you would be able to truly understand your body honestly. Uh so we understand your body honestly. Uh so we understand your body honestly. Uh so we have this unique honor and privilege of have this unique honor and privilege of have this unique honor and privilege of being a believer in Jesus and being able being a believer in Jesus and being able being a believer in Jesus and being able to understand what it means for him to

to understand what it means for him to to understand what it means for him to have been you know embodied Christ and have been you know embodied Christ and have been you know embodied Christ and die for us and what his crucifixion is die for us and what his crucifixion is die for us and what his crucifixion is what the temple really means which is what the temple really means which is what the temple really means which is one of the most powerful one of the most powerful one of the most powerful >> um really uh scriptures and >> um really uh scriptures and >> um really uh scriptures and illustrations in all of the word of God illustrations in all of the word of God illustrations in all of the word of God although we don't fully understand what although we don't fully understand what although we don't fully understand what that means. So I think that's another that means. So I think that's another that means. So I think that's another piece there too. Uh one big one big piece there too. Uh one big one big piece there too. Uh one big one big aspect that is different for Christians aspect that is different for Christians aspect that is different for Christians is being a part of the body of Christ is being a part of the body of Christ is being a part of the body of Christ which we don't fully understand how much which we don't fully understand how much which we don't fully understand how much that affects us in our individual that affects us in our individual that affects us in our individual bodies. If you are not a believer you bodies. If you are not a believer you bodies. If you are not a believer you obviously are not a part of the body of obviously are not a part of the body of obviously are not a part of the body of Christ. And so that's a very big Christ. And so that's a very big Christ. And so that's a very big difference difference difference >> and how no part is indispensable like >> and how no part is indispensable like >> and how no part is indispensable like that like how you that like how you that like how you >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, no. I'm just sitting here thinking >> Well, no. I'm just sitting here thinking >> Well, no. I'm just sitting here thinking like all these things going together. like all these things going together. like all these things going together. There's this There's this There's this it's just so different to really believe it's just so different to really believe it's just so different to really believe God formed and fashioned me and he has God formed and fashioned me and he has God formed and fashioned me and he has called me for a purpose. And so, you called me for a purpose. And so, you called me for a purpose. And so, you know, the fact that I was born with know, the fact that I was born with know, the fact that I was born with brown hair, the fact that I am the shape brown hair, the fact that I am the shape brown hair, the fact that I am the shape I am, the fact that I have brown eyes, I am, the fact that I have brown eyes, I am, the fact that I have brown eyes, you know, all of the things were you know, all of the things were you know, all of the things were purposeful like that not a hair can fall purposeful like that not a hair can fall purposeful like that not a hair can fall on my head, but he's not aware of it.

on my head, but he's not aware of it. on my head, but he's not aware of it. Surely he's aware of where I'm gonna get Surely he's aware of where I'm gonna get Surely he's aware of where I'm gonna get wrinkles and that I might have back wrinkles and that I might have back wrinkles and that I might have back issues. issues. issues. >> Going to Are you talking about that? >> Going to Are you talking about that? >> Going to Are you talking about that? Like, wow. Zing. Like, wow. Zing. Like, wow. Zing. There we go. >> We want whatever you are putting on your >> We want whatever you are putting on your face. face. face. >> Exactly. I'm like, what is happening >> Exactly. I'm like, what is happening >> Exactly. I'm like, what is happening right now? right now? right now? >> Pass that on. Where's the link? Yeah, >> Pass that on. Where's the link? Yeah, >> Pass that on. Where's the link? Yeah, >> I'm messing with you. But like you know >> I'm messing with you. But like you know >> I'm messing with you. But like you know I mean if I really believed that yeah I mean if I really believed that yeah I mean if I really believed that yeah >> you really believe that everything that >> you really believe that everything that >> you really believe that everything that I have is getting back to that glory I have is getting back to that glory I have is getting back to that glory piece. piece. piece. >> It is >> It is >> It is >> um I can I can read the story of the man >> um I can I can read the story of the man >> um I can I can read the story of the man born blind and they are saying who born blind and they are saying who born blind and they are saying who sinned sinned sinned >> you know that's kind of what we're >> you know that's kind of what we're >> you know that's kind of what we're thinking when we look at our bodies who thinking when we look at our bodies who thinking when we look at our bodies who over sinned who sinned and yet what does it say? Oh, who sinned and yet what does it say? Oh, that the work that the power of God that the work that the power of God that the work that the power of God might be displayed might be displayed might be displayed >> in the life. So, yeah. >> in the life. So, yeah. >> in the life. So, yeah. >> And that was where his body wasn't >> And that was where his body wasn't >> And that was where his body wasn't working the way he wanted it to.

working the way he wanted it to. working the way he wanted it to. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it was for the glory of God. Like to >> And it was for the glory of God. Like to >> And it was for the glory of God. Like to have the humility to submit to that. have the humility to submit to that. have the humility to submit to that. >> Oh, that's so good, Melissa. And you >> Oh, that's so good, Melissa. And you >> Oh, that's so good, Melissa. And you know, Lisa, as you were talking, when know, Lisa, as you were talking, when know, Lisa, as you were talking, when you first heard the glove illustration, you first heard the glove illustration, you first heard the glove illustration, which I have never heard and I loved, I which I have never heard and I loved, I which I have never heard and I loved, I thought you were going to say, and I was thought you were going to say, and I was thought you were going to say, and I was like, "No, no, no, no. Don't say it." like, "No, no, no, no. Don't say it." like, "No, no, no, no. Don't say it." this idea that, you know, our bodies are this idea that, you know, our bodies are this idea that, you know, our bodies are like a glove and and at the end of our like a glove and and at the end of our like a glove and and at the end of our life, you know, we throw them on the life, you know, we throw them on the life, you know, we throw them on the floor and then we go on to be with Jesus floor and then we go on to be with Jesus floor and then we go on to be with Jesus in heaven because I've heard that in heaven because I've heard that in heaven because I've heard that before. It's like a dirty pair of before. It's like a dirty pair of before. It's like a dirty pair of clothes you take off and you leave and clothes you take off and you leave and clothes you take off and you leave and then you go and it's like no, no, no, then you go and it's like no, no, no, then you go and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The body that So, no, no, no, no, no. The body that So, no, no, no, no, no. The body that So, the only resurrected body that we have the only resurrected body that we have the only resurrected body that we have ever seen is Jesus. ever seen is Jesus. ever seen is Jesus. >> The body that went into the tomb is the >> The body that went into the tomb is the >> The body that went into the tomb is the body that came out of the tomb and is body that came out of the tomb and is body that came out of the tomb and is the body that he is currently living in, the body that he is currently living in, the body that he is currently living in, reigning and ruling over all things. reigning and ruling over all things. reigning and ruling over all things. That's right. And so what we know from That's right. And so what we know from That's right. And so what we know from that is that these bodies, this body that is that these bodies, this body that is that these bodies, this body that I'm living in now. So not only did that I'm living in now. So not only did that I'm living in now. So not only did he form me, not only, you know, Psalm he form me, not only, you know, Psalm he form me, not only, you know, Psalm 139 does he he formed all of my parts 139 does he he formed all of my parts 139 does he he formed all of my parts and like you said, Melissa, the parts and like you said, Melissa, the parts and like you said, Melissa, the parts that I think work the way I want, parts that I think work the way I want, parts that I think work the way I want, parts that don't work or look the way I want, that don't work or look the way I want, that don't work or look the way I want, form or function again. He formed all of form or function again. He formed all of form or function again. He formed all of them for the ultimate goal, which is them for the ultimate goal, which is them for the ultimate goal, which is what Lisa's been putting before us the what Lisa's been putting before us the what Lisa's been putting before us the whole time, for his glory.

whole time, for his glory. whole time, for his glory. >> This body is the one that I will be >> This body is the one that I will be >> This body is the one that I will be dwelling in. dwelling in. dwelling in. >> Yes. for eternity after the resurrection >> Yes. for eternity after the resurrection >> Yes. for eternity after the resurrection of all things. That changed because I of all things. That changed because I of all things. That changed because I think a lot of us think, "Oh yeah, he think a lot of us think, "Oh yeah, he think a lot of us think, "Oh yeah, he formed us. We're in his image." And then formed us. We're in his image." And then formed us. We're in his image." And then one day we walk away from it. We don't. one day we walk away from it. We don't. one day we walk away from it. We don't. >> I'm really glad you brought this up >> I'm really glad you brought this up >> I'm really glad you brought this up because I think a lot of us, and I get because I think a lot of us, and I get because I think a lot of us, and I get this question a lot, Courtney. People this question a lot, Courtney. People this question a lot, Courtney. People want to talk a lot about, okay, so we're want to talk a lot about, okay, so we're want to talk a lot about, okay, so we're ready like what what are you thinking ready like what what are you thinking ready like what what are you thinking about for future body? And I think there about for future body? And I think there about for future body? And I think there is a a part of us that we're constantly is a a part of us that we're constantly is a a part of us that we're constantly just like, I can't wait to get that just like, I can't wait to get that just like, I can't wait to get that glorified body. And we're just always glorified body. And we're just always glorified body. And we're just always thinking about what is to come. And one thinking about what is to come. And one thinking about what is to come. And one of the things that that the Lord really of the things that that the Lord really of the things that that the Lord really showed me and convicted me of in in in showed me and convicted me of in in in showed me and convicted me of in in in studying about whole body theology was studying about whole body theology was studying about whole body theology was there's there's there's two parts at there's there's there's two parts at there's there's there's two parts at play here. It's the daily glory and the play here. It's the daily glory and the play here. It's the daily glory and the future glory future glory future glory >> that that we are living, right? It's the >> that that we are living, right? It's the >> that that we are living, right? It's the daily glory where daily glory where daily glory where Even in our bodies, our human Even in our bodies, our human Even in our bodies, our human compromised bodies, we are living with a compromised bodies, we are living with a compromised bodies, we are living with a sense of the coming resurrection, but we sense of the coming resurrection, but we sense of the coming resurrection, but we are daily being made new according to are daily being made new according to are daily being made new according to scripture. We know that's true, right?

scripture. We know that's true, right? scripture. We know that's true, right? And we know that we can live with a And we know that we can live with a And we know that we can live with a measure of abundance here on earth. So, measure of abundance here on earth. So, measure of abundance here on earth. So, it's not like we are just, you know, it's not like we are just, you know, it's not like we are just, you know, holding on for heaven. So, we we're holding on for heaven. So, we we're holding on for heaven. So, we we're living in the in it with a daily glory. living in the in it with a daily glory. living in the in it with a daily glory. And then there's the future glory where And then there's the future glory where And then there's the future glory where yes, we are going to be alive with Jesus yes, we are going to be alive with Jesus yes, we are going to be alive with Jesus in the resurrected body that we will in the resurrected body that we will in the resurrected body that we will have. None of us know exactly what have. None of us know exactly what have. None of us know exactly what that's going to be, right? Exactly how that's going to be, right? Exactly how that's going to be, right? Exactly how we're going to be in our bodies. But we we're going to be in our bodies. But we we're going to be in our bodies. But we do know exactly what you just said, do know exactly what you just said, do know exactly what you just said, which is Jesus was resurrected in his which is Jesus was resurrected in his which is Jesus was resurrected in his body. He's living in that body right body. He's living in that body right body. He's living in that body right now. So it's it's both. And we don't now. So it's it's both. And we don't now. So it's it's both. And we don't want to live shortsighted want to live shortsighted want to live shortsighted and we don't want to live just holding and we don't want to live just holding and we don't want to live just holding on for heaven. So it's the daily glory on for heaven. So it's the daily glory on for heaven. So it's the daily glory and the future glory. And that is what's and the future glory. And that is what's and the future glory. And that is what's beautiful about being where we are. I beautiful about being where we are. I beautiful about being where we are. I mean that's why the obsessing and the mean that's why the obsessing and the mean that's why the obsessing and the neglecting neither one works. neglecting neither one works. neglecting neither one works. >> It's it's why being all about well let >> It's it's why being all about well let >> It's it's why being all about well let me just be strong and healthy. That's me just be strong and healthy. That's me just be strong and healthy. That's still a goal for myself. still a goal for myself. still a goal for myself. >> And the reality is we are living while >> And the reality is we are living while >> And the reality is we are living while we know we're excited about what's to we know we're excited about what's to we know we're excited about what's to come. God has us living here and now for come. God has us living here and now for come. God has us living here and now for a reason or we would not still be here.

a reason or we would not still be here. a reason or we would not still be here. And we are in a body that the Lord has And we are in a body that the Lord has And we are in a body that the Lord has given us to bring glory to him. Whatever given us to bring glory to him. Whatever given us to bring glory to him. Whatever that looks like, whether we are that looks like, whether we are that looks like, whether we are able-bodied or not able-bodied, whether able-bodied or not able-bodied, whether able-bodied or not able-bodied, whether we have a chronic illness or whether we we have a chronic illness or whether we we have a chronic illness or whether we don't, whether we're able to bear don't, whether we're able to bear don't, whether we're able to bear children or whether we're not, whether children or whether we're not, whether children or whether we're not, whether we are menopausal, whether we have we are menopausal, whether we have we are menopausal, whether we have chronic migraines, I mean, whatever it chronic migraines, I mean, whatever it chronic migraines, I mean, whatever it is, whether you eat or drink or whatever is, whether you eat or drink or whatever is, whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, bring glory to God. And I just you do, bring glory to God. And I just you do, bring glory to God. And I just want to say like I feel chills all over want to say like I feel chills all over want to say like I feel chills all over my body because God has set me free and my body because God has set me free and my body because God has set me free and I just didn't live like that. I lived I just didn't live like that. I lived I just didn't live like that. I lived just saying I want to be a size just saying I want to be a size just saying I want to be a size whatever. whatever. whatever. >> And I lived for myself in that. And I >> And I lived for myself in that. And I >> And I lived for myself in that. And I walked into rooms and I just thought I'm walked into rooms and I just thought I'm walked into rooms and I just thought I'm the biggest one here. I don't know if I the biggest one here. I don't know if I the biggest one here. I don't know if I can sit in this room anymore. And I just can sit in this room anymore. And I just can sit in this room anymore. And I just don't think that way anymore. That don't think that way anymore. That don't think that way anymore. That doesn't mean that I don't have moments doesn't mean that I don't have moments doesn't mean that I don't have moments that I wish I were thinner or moments that I wish I were thinner or moments that I wish I were thinner or moments that, you know, I wish that I didn't that, you know, I wish that I didn't that, you know, I wish that I didn't have chronic migraines, but I just I have chronic migraines, but I just I have chronic migraines, but I just I just don't live with the same mentality just don't live with the same mentality just don't live with the same mentality anymore. And I'm grateful and that's anymore. And I'm grateful and that's anymore. And I'm grateful and that's just kind of where I am. I love that and just kind of where I am. I love that and just kind of where I am. I love that and I love that you've put that out there I love that you've put that out there I love that you've put that out there for us as like this is possible with the for us as like this is possible with the for us as like this is possible with the Lord. Like it is possible with the Lord.

Lord. Like it is possible with the Lord. Lord. Like it is possible with the Lord. I remember hearing Johnny Ericsonatada I remember hearing Johnny Ericsonatada I remember hearing Johnny Ericsonatada say one time that somebody asked her, say one time that somebody asked her, say one time that somebody asked her, you know, what are you going to do or you know, what are you going to do or you know, what are you going to do or what are you going to say when you see what are you going to say when you see what are you going to say when you see the Lord face to face? And I don't even the Lord face to face? And I don't even the Lord face to face? And I don't even know if I can say it without crying, but know if I can say it without crying, but know if I can say it without crying, but said she's going to hand them her said she's going to hand them her said she's going to hand them her wheelchair and say, "Thanks. I needed wheelchair and say, "Thanks. I needed wheelchair and say, "Thanks. I needed that." that." that." >> And it's like, "Oh, okay. Where am I >> And it's like, "Oh, okay. Where am I >> And it's like, "Oh, okay. Where am I viewing these things in my body that I viewing these things in my body that I viewing these things in my body that I wish were different wish were different wish were different >> as a way of conforming me more to the >> as a way of conforming me more to the >> as a way of conforming me more to the image of Christ? image of Christ? image of Christ? >> Yeah. And I think I think as women I >> Yeah. And I think I think as women I >> Yeah. And I think I think as women I even as I'm thinking about this even as I'm thinking about this even as I'm thinking about this discussion, I'm thinking about all the discussion, I'm thinking about all the discussion, I'm thinking about all the things you just said, Lisa, our bodies things you just said, Lisa, our bodies things you just said, Lisa, our bodies as women change a lot. Yeah. as women change a lot. Yeah. as women change a lot. Yeah. >> Even at a young age. Meaning because >> Even at a young age. Meaning because >> Even at a young age. Meaning because think about it. If you get pregnant in think about it. If you get pregnant in think about it. If you get pregnant in your 20s, which I'm just speaking your 20s, which I'm just speaking your 20s, which I'm just speaking biologically, that's when a lot of women biologically, that's when a lot of women biologically, that's when a lot of women are able to get pregnant. Um, that's are able to get pregnant. Um, that's are able to get pregnant. Um, that's pretty young for your body to go through pretty young for your body to go through pretty young for your body to go through such a big change. I mean, I, you know, such a big change. I mean, I, you know, such a big change. I mean, I, you know, men's bodies are pretty stable at that men's bodies are pretty stable at that men's bodies are pretty stable at that point. So, we go through, but but every point. So, we go through, but but every point. So, we go through, but but every month we deal with different hormones month we deal with different hormones month we deal with different hormones that affect our bodies, you know, that that affect our bodies, you know, that that affect our bodies, you know, that are just biologically happening every are just biologically happening every are just biologically happening every single month that we we deal with. Then single month that we we deal with. Then single month that we we deal with. Then we go through, you know, years of we go through, you know, years of we go through, you know, years of nursing potentially. I mean, you know, nursing potentially. I mean, you know, nursing potentially. I mean, you know, that they're doing different things. A that they're doing different things. A that they're doing different things. A lot of then we menopause if we're still lot of then we menopause if we're still lot of then we menopause if we're still if we're still alive. We go through all if we're still alive. We go through all if we're still alive. We go through all these changes in a ways. And it's these changes in a ways. And it's these changes in a ways. And it's interesting how some of those things

interesting how some of those things interesting how some of those things happen to a female body along the way. happen to a female body along the way. happen to a female body along the way. Not to every female body, but to to many Not to every female body, but to to many Not to every female body, but to to many along the way along the way along the way while we're young, while we're young, while we're young, >> which I think is really different. And I >> which I think is really different. And I >> which I think is really different. And I hear us as women often I complain about hear us as women often I complain about hear us as women often I complain about that. that. that. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Rather than hold to the truth of this is >> Rather than hold to the truth of this is >> Rather than hold to the truth of this is an opportunity for me to glorify God an opportunity for me to glorify God an opportunity for me to glorify God with my body. I don't know to for it to with my body. I don't know to for it to with my body. I don't know to for it to actually physically be used. I mean used actually physically be used. I mean used actually physically be used. I mean used to incubate another b you another to incubate another b you another to incubate another b you another person. But even things like menopause person. But even things like menopause person. But even things like menopause there's got to be a use for it. I don't there's got to be a use for it. I don't there's got to be a use for it. I don't know what it is. know what it is. know what it is. >> Would you please let me know what that >> Would you please let me know what that >> Would you please let me know what that is when you find out? is when you find out? is when you find out? >> But but you know it's so tempting. I I >> But but you know it's so tempting. I I >> But but you know it's so tempting. I I even can just see in my own heart a a a even can just see in my own heart a a a even can just see in my own heart a a a spirit of complaint about my body. spirit of complaint about my body. spirit of complaint about my body. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, each of those things that you >> Well, each of those things that you >> Well, each of those things that you mentioned um we tend to view as negative mentioned um we tend to view as negative mentioned um we tend to view as negative for our bodies because there's this for our bodies because there's this for our bodies because there's this ideal, you know, 18, 19, 20 year old, ideal, you know, 18, 19, 20 year old, ideal, you know, 18, 19, 20 year old, right? And then each of the things right? And then each of the things right? And then each of the things >> takes away from >> takes away from >> takes away from >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> our bodies, right? Form or function. I >> our bodies, right? Form or function. I >> our bodies, right? Form or function. I mean, I just like either our bodies mean, I just like either our bodies mean, I just like either our bodies don't perform in those ways that we wish don't perform in those ways that we wish don't perform in those ways that we wish that they would and you know, we we that they would and you know, we we that they would and you know, we we we loathe them for it like you said, or we loathe them for it like you said, or we loathe them for it like you said, or they appear like the form of them, they they appear like the form of them, they they appear like the form of them, they the appearance of them is different the appearance of them is different the appearance of them is different because of those things and then we because of those things and then we because of those things and then we loathe them for it. And you know, it's loathe them for it. And you know, it's loathe them for it. And you know, it's just it it's such an interesting just it it's such an interesting just it it's such an interesting question. I mean, we've talked about question. I mean, we've talked about question. I mean, we've talked about this in the aging episode, but you know, this in the aging episode, but you know, this in the aging episode, but you know, the idea of teach me to number my days the idea of teach me to number my days the idea of teach me to number my days that I may gain a heart of wisdom and that I may gain a heart of wisdom and that I may gain a heart of wisdom and the fact that watching my body age and the fact that watching my body age and the fact that watching my body age and feeling the effects of it is actually a feeling the effects of it is actually a feeling the effects of it is actually a disciplehip issue. And I think I think disciplehip issue. And I think I think disciplehip issue. And I think I think that that's what you're saying, Lisa, is that that's what you're saying, Lisa, is that that's what you're saying, Lisa, is that like how we understand and view our that like how we understand and view our that like how we understand and view our bodies actually can help us be formed in bodies actually can help us be formed in bodies actually can help us be formed in Christlikkeness. Christlikkeness. Christlikkeness. And so, how have you seen that play out? And so, how have you seen that play out? And so, how have you seen that play out? How is that true? And then how are we How is that true? And then how are we How is that true? And then how are we helping um how are we speaking into helping um how are we speaking into helping um how are we speaking into because there is, you're right, apart because there is, you're right, apart because there is, you're right, apart from apart from Christ, right? We really from apart from Christ, right? We really from apart from Christ, right? We really can't I mean the ultimate thing is going can't I mean the ultimate thing is going can't I mean the ultimate thing is going to be the form and function of our to be the form and function of our to be the form and function of our bodies, right? It just is. It's going to bodies, right? It just is. It's going to bodies, right? It just is. It's going to become a god unto them unto itself or or become a god unto them unto itself or or become a god unto them unto itself or or we follow a a religion that says your we follow a a religion that says your we follow a a religion that says your bodies are nothing. They mean nothing bodies are nothing. They mean nothing bodies are nothing. They mean nothing and so neglect doesn't matter and and so neglect doesn't matter and and so neglect doesn't matter and they're just going to, you know, fade they're just going to, you know, fade they're just going to, you know, fade off into oblivion. But as believers who off into oblivion. But as believers who off into oblivion. But as believers who want to be formed into the image of want to be formed into the image of want to be formed into the image of Christ, how does this idea of pressing

Christ, how does this idea of pressing Christ, how does this idea of pressing into um a whole body theology disciple into um a whole body theology disciple into um a whole body theology disciple us into Christ likeness? This is a huge us into Christ likeness? This is a huge us into Christ likeness? This is a huge disciplehip issue. This is this is a disciplehip issue. This is this is a disciplehip issue. This is this is a piece that we have been missing for so piece that we have been missing for so piece that we have been missing for so very long. And it's not just about like, very long. And it's not just about like, very long. And it's not just about like, you know, I I want to teach this to my you know, I I want to teach this to my you know, I I want to teach this to my children or we need to teach this to the children or we need to teach this to the children or we need to teach this to the church or the next generation so that church or the next generation so that church or the next generation so that they will talk nicer to themselves. I they will talk nicer to themselves. I they will talk nicer to themselves. I mean that absolutely is important but it mean that absolutely is important but it mean that absolutely is important but it has far bigger ramifications for even has far bigger ramifications for even has far bigger ramifications for even the unity in the body of Christ because the unity in the body of Christ because the unity in the body of Christ because we don't even know how to relate we don't even know how to relate we don't even know how to relate Courtney even as brothers and sisters in Courtney even as brothers and sisters in Courtney even as brothers and sisters in Christ to each other because of the over Christ to each other because of the over Christ to each other because of the over sexualized culture that we live in. I sexualized culture that we live in. I sexualized culture that we live in. I mean this is I could go on and on about mean this is I could go on and on about mean this is I could go on and on about this but I won't. But this is a actual this but I won't. But this is a actual this but I won't. But this is a actual really big deal. Um, and I think that if really big deal. Um, and I think that if really big deal. Um, and I think that if we were to understand our bodies, that's we were to understand our bodies, that's we were to understand our bodies, that's one piece. one piece. one piece. >> We would also understand other people's >> We would also understand other people's >> We would also understand other people's bodies, we would treat each other in a bodies, we would treat each other in a bodies, we would treat each other in a way and respect one another in a way way and respect one another in a way way and respect one another in a way that could really revolutionize that could really revolutionize that could really revolutionize the our relationship with one another.

the our relationship with one another. the our relationship with one another. Uh, and there would be a different level Uh, and there would be a different level Uh, and there would be a different level of respect. I mean, there's no question of respect. I mean, there's no question of respect. I mean, there's no question in the church. um as a body we have in the church. um as a body we have in the church. um as a body we have have, you know, not honored one another. have, you know, not honored one another. have, you know, not honored one another. We have we have had abuse. We have had We have we have had abuse. We have had We have we have had abuse. We have had um just I mean in all forms and I I um just I mean in all forms and I I um just I mean in all forms and I I think that that is a a core think that that is a a core think that that is a a core misunderstanding of what a moa even is misunderstanding of what a moa even is misunderstanding of what a moa even is and and even just how we're supposed to and and even just how we're supposed to and and even just how we're supposed to function with one another and and the function with one another and and the function with one another and and the the the great value that we have on our the the great value that we have on our the the great value that we have on our lives. And so you want to talk about a lives. And so you want to talk about a lives. And so you want to talk about a disciplehip issue at 1 bazillion%. disciplehip issue at 1 bazillion%. disciplehip issue at 1 bazillion%. And I'm just really passionate about And I'm just really passionate about And I'm just really passionate about that within the church body. I mean it's that within the church body. I mean it's that within the church body. I mean it's it would it would absolutely change it would it would absolutely change it would it would absolutely change everything. It is one of the reasons why everything. It is one of the reasons why everything. It is one of the reasons why rather we have been discipled on the rather we have been discipled on the rather we have been discipled on the culture of secular. We have been culture of secular. We have been culture of secular. We have been discipled on secular culture memes up to discipled on secular culture memes up to discipled on secular culture memes up to this point. And I it is the reason why I this point. And I it is the reason why I this point. And I it is the reason why I began to dig into the word to find out began to dig into the word to find out began to dig into the word to find out truth because in my mind what we have truth because in my mind what we have truth because in my mind what we have all been through we've been talking all been through we've been talking all been through we've been talking about things like you know infertility about things like you know infertility about things like you know infertility or being disabled. We haven't even or being disabled. We haven't even or being disabled. We haven't even touched on things like abuse and the the touched on things like abuse and the the touched on things like abuse and the the massive statistics in that and the massive statistics in that and the massive statistics in that and the things that we've all been through.

things that we've all been through. things that we've all been through. Women have been and men have been Women have been and men have been Women have been and men have been through so much in our bodies and we through so much in our bodies and we through so much in our bodies and we have literally just been through have literally just been through have literally just been through something and then come home and cook something and then come home and cook something and then come home and cook dinner or just driven to our job or dinner or just driven to our job or dinner or just driven to our job or whatever. And I just felt like those whatever. And I just felt like those whatever. And I just felt like those memes, that hype culture, body memes, that hype culture, body memes, that hype culture, body positivity hype culture that we have positivity hype culture that we have positivity hype culture that we have dealt with, our bodies deserve more than dealt with, our bodies deserve more than dealt with, our bodies deserve more than hype and we deserve the grounding of the hype and we deserve the grounding of the hype and we deserve the grounding of the word of God. And so what we've tried so word of God. And so what we've tried so word of God. And so what we've tried so far to do is basically just build our far to do is basically just build our far to do is basically just build our body belief systems. Uh we've built a body belief systems. Uh we've built a body belief systems. Uh we've built a house without a foundation. We've put up house without a foundation. We've put up house without a foundation. We've put up pictures on the wall. We've hung pictures on the wall. We've hung pictures on the wall. We've hung curtains and there's been zero curtains and there's been zero curtains and there's been zero foundation for it. And it's no wonder foundation for it. And it's no wonder foundation for it. And it's no wonder that we have struggled our entire lives. that we have struggled our entire lives. that we have struggled our entire lives. And so it's just like anything else, And so it's just like anything else, And so it's just like anything else, Courtney. If we aren't discipled in the Courtney. If we aren't discipled in the Courtney. If we aren't discipled in the word, if we don't know what it it means, word, if we don't know what it it means, word, if we don't know what it it means, if we haven't had a full picture from if we haven't had a full picture from if we haven't had a full picture from the entire scripture, the entire scripture, the entire scripture, where what are we going to do? We're where what are we going to do? We're where what are we going to do? We're going to go to body topics. And that's going to go to body topics. And that's going to go to body topics. And that's what we've done. And and so it's crucial what we've done. And and so it's crucial what we've done. And and so it's crucial for our children. It's crucial for our for our children. It's crucial for our for our children. It's crucial for our own selves. It's never too late to own selves. It's never too late to own selves. It's never too late to learn. I'm a living testimony to that.

learn. I'm a living testimony to that. learn. I'm a living testimony to that. And uh so I'm just a tiny bit passionate And uh so I'm just a tiny bit passionate And uh so I'm just a tiny bit passionate about discipling the church. Well, and about discipling the church. Well, and about discipling the church. Well, and as other people get healthy, if they as as other people get healthy, if they as as other people get healthy, if they as they develop whole body theology, you they develop whole body theology, you they develop whole body theology, you know, I've told Melissa this before, know, I've told Melissa this before, know, I've told Melissa this before, actually, my daughters and actually, my daughters and actually, my daughters and daughter-in-laws are the ones that have daughter-in-laws are the ones that have daughter-in-laws are the ones that have been discipling me in this, like they're been discipling me in this, like they're been discipling me in this, like they're so instructive because I think they have so instructive because I think they have so instructive because I think they have a healthier um relationship with their a healthier um relationship with their a healthier um relationship with their body and it's really been it's discipled body and it's really been it's discipled body and it's really been it's discipled me. It's been helpful. So, I think as we me. It's been helpful. So, I think as we me. It's been helpful. So, I think as we pursue this, we actually do help each pursue this, we actually do help each pursue this, we actually do help each other other other >> um >> um >> um >> understand. So, let me ask you this. As >> understand. So, let me ask you this. As >> understand. So, let me ask you this. As older women, we're increasingly becoming older women, we're increasingly becoming older women, we're increasingly becoming older women in all of our congregations. older women in all of our congregations. older women in all of our congregations. What responsibility do we have as we What responsibility do we have as we What responsibility do we have as we talk to younger women? What talk to younger women? What talk to younger women? What responsibility do we have with our responsibility do we have with our responsibility do we have with our words, how we how we speak? Um what what words, how we how we speak? Um what what words, how we how we speak? Um what what responsibility do we have just as in our responsibility do we have just as in our responsibility do we have just as in our example before them? How would y'all example before them? How would y'all example before them? How would y'all >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> kind of push women to do that? It's >> kind of push women to do that? It's >> kind of push women to do that? It's hard. It's hard to kind of live in an hard. It's hard to kind of live in an hard. It's hard to kind of live in an aging body in front of people and not aging body in front of people and not aging body in front of people and not make excuses or not be apologetic or not make excuses or not be apologetic or not make excuses or not be apologetic or not duck out of the photo or not, you know, duck out of the photo or not, you know, duck out of the photo or not, you know, whatever it is. Like, it's actually hard whatever it is. Like, it's actually hard whatever it is. Like, it's actually hard to do. And I remember one of my younger to do. And I remember one of my younger to do. And I remember one of my younger friends saying to me one time, she was friends saying to me one time, she was friends saying to me one time, she was like, "Well, don't you get to the age like, "Well, don't you get to the age like, "Well, don't you get to the age that it doesn't matter anymore?" And I that it doesn't matter anymore?" And I that it doesn't matter anymore?" And I was like, "Well, I haven't reached it."

was like, "Well, I haven't reached it." was like, "Well, I haven't reached it." I mean, I mean, I mean, >> right. Right. I'm like, "No, it's uh >> right. Right. I'm like, "No, it's uh >> right. Right. I'm like, "No, it's uh it's it's hard, but I think it really it's it's hard, but I think it really it's it's hard, but I think it really matters that as older women, we do matters that as older women, we do matters that as older women, we do that." Um, and we, you know, we disciple that." Um, and we, you know, we disciple that." Um, and we, you know, we disciple one crepey skin arm at a time. one crepey skin arm at a time. one crepey skin arm at a time. >> Oh my gosh. And and keeping your sense >> Oh my gosh. And and keeping your sense >> Oh my gosh. And and keeping your sense of humor. Honestly, I love your sense of of humor. Honestly, I love your sense of of humor. Honestly, I love your sense of humor about this because I do think that humor about this because I do think that humor about this because I do think that that's important. It kind of helps me that's important. It kind of helps me that's important. It kind of helps me keep my sanity. I have to watch that I'm keep my sanity. I have to watch that I'm keep my sanity. I have to watch that I'm not too like self-deprecating about not too like self-deprecating about not too like self-deprecating about things because I can get very much that things because I can get very much that things because I can get very much that way and I have to watch that around my way and I have to watch that around my way and I have to watch that around my daughter especially like don't say too daughter especially like don't say too daughter especially like don't say too many like you know comments about many like you know comments about many like you know comments about yourself because I do pick up on that yourself because I do pick up on that yourself because I do pick up on that right but I do think amongst each other right but I do think amongst each other right but I do think amongst each other it's kind of fun to just talk about like it's kind of fun to just talk about like it's kind of fun to just talk about like can you believe how many skin tags I can you believe how many skin tags I can you believe how many skin tags I actually have at this juncture of my actually have at this juncture of my actually have at this juncture of my life you know I am I am plucking hairs life you know I am I am plucking hairs life you know I am I am plucking hairs off my face as we speak right but I mean off my face as we speak right but I mean off my face as we speak right but I mean that is the I mean I do find the beauty that is the I mean I do find the beauty that is the I mean I do find the beauty of the keeping my sanity with women that of the keeping my sanity with women that of the keeping my sanity with women that are in my season of life. And I do think are in my season of life. And I do think are in my season of life. And I do think there's beauty in that because I will there's beauty in that because I will there's beauty in that because I will say Melissa, it has it is weighty. It is say Melissa, it has it is weighty. It is say Melissa, it has it is weighty. It is no, no pun intended, but it is literally no, no pun intended, but it is literally no, no pun intended, but it is literally like there is a real mantle that I feel like there is a real mantle that I feel like there is a real mantle that I feel with this. And it's not because I wrote with this. And it's not because I wrote with this. And it's not because I wrote something about it. It is because I do something about it. It is because I do something about it. It is because I do feel feel feel >> I do feel the responsibility in being a >> I do feel the responsibility in being a >> I do feel the responsibility in being a woman that ages gracefully. and woman that ages gracefully. and woman that ages gracefully. and gracefully, not meaning like with always gracefully, not meaning like with always gracefully, not meaning like with always a good attitude about it, I guess, a good attitude about it, I guess, a good attitude about it, I guess, because the Lord knows my heart. Like we because the Lord knows my heart. Like we because the Lord knows my heart. Like we have many conversations about it, but I have many conversations about it, but I have many conversations about it, but I feel like like with not complaining

feel like like with not complaining feel like like with not complaining constantly, like I am able to get around constantly, like I am able to get around constantly, like I am able to get around and I am able to have breath in my and I am able to have breath in my and I am able to have breath in my lungs. Like honestly, my good friend Jen lungs. Like honestly, my good friend Jen lungs. Like honestly, my good friend Jen died at 40 and I watched her wither away died at 40 and I watched her wither away died at 40 and I watched her wither away into skin and bones. Like I I I sat with into skin and bones. Like I I I sat with into skin and bones. Like I I I sat with her three days before she took her last her three days before she took her last her three days before she took her last breath. Cancer ravaged her body. And I breath. Cancer ravaged her body. And I breath. Cancer ravaged her body. And I think about Jen a lot. Like I have think about Jen a lot. Like I have think about Jen a lot. Like I have gotten to live 13 years longer than Jen. gotten to live 13 years longer than Jen. gotten to live 13 years longer than Jen. Thank you, God. Like I'm telling you, Thank you, God. Like I'm telling you, Thank you, God. Like I'm telling you, those kinds of things, those those kinds of things, those those kinds of things, those perspectives are so important as we age perspectives are so important as we age perspectives are so important as we age because I get to see another year of because I get to see another year of because I get to see another year of life. I get to still hug my kids. life. I get to still hug my kids. life. I get to still hug my kids. >> Like I don't know. I mean, these things >> Like I don't know. I mean, these things >> Like I don't know. I mean, these things are calibrating. And I do think it's are calibrating. And I do think it's are calibrating. And I do think it's important as we look and we see yet important as we look and we see yet important as we look and we see yet another age spot and we see yet another another age spot and we see yet another another age spot and we see yet another like part of our neck we don't like. And like part of our neck we don't like. And like part of our neck we don't like. And those things honestly those things honestly those things honestly are not fun. They're not great. I'm not are not fun. They're not great. I'm not are not fun. They're not great. I'm not I don't want to sit here and act like I don't want to sit here and act like I don't want to sit here and act like they are. But like I am alive. I can they are. But like I am alive. I can they are. But like I am alive. I can laugh. I've got kids. It's it's great.

laugh. I've got kids. It's it's great. laugh. I've got kids. It's it's great. And also, I do know from my past And also, I do know from my past And also, I do know from my past stupidity as a young woman that if I stupidity as a young woman that if I stupidity as a young woman that if I don't appreciate how I look at 53, then don't appreciate how I look at 53, then don't appreciate how I look at 53, then at 63 I'm going to be like, "Oh, I was at 63 I'm going to be like, "Oh, I was at 63 I'm going to be like, "Oh, I was far I was pretty cute, actually." You far I was pretty cute, actually." You far I was pretty cute, actually." You know, know, know, >> but it's all it's that's I mean, it's so >> but it's all it's that's I mean, it's so >> but it's all it's that's I mean, it's so true. You know, how often have we all true. You know, how often have we all true. You know, how often have we all said like, "Oh my gosh, what was I said like, "Oh my gosh, what was I said like, "Oh my gosh, what was I complaining about at you know, at 33?" complaining about at you know, at 33?" complaining about at you know, at 33?" But the reality is we've complained all But the reality is we've complained all But the reality is we've complained all the way along, most of us. It's just the the way along, most of us. It's just the the way along, most of us. It's just the reality. Um, but the opportunity to reality. Um, but the opportunity to reality. Um, but the opportunity to press into both humility and self press into both humility and self press into both humility and self forgetfulness forgetfulness forgetfulness >> is a good thing. I think about that a >> is a good thing. I think about that a >> is a good thing. I think about that a lot when all of a sudden I'm I'm lot when all of a sudden I'm I'm lot when all of a sudden I'm I'm thinking about me again. Like you said, thinking about me again. Like you said, thinking about me again. Like you said, you know, what do other people think? you know, what do other people think? you know, what do other people think? What am I, you know, there is a little What am I, you know, there is a little What am I, you know, there is a little video that went viral and one of the video that went viral and one of the video that went viral and one of the lines in it was, "You're turning into a lines in it was, "You're turning into a lines in it was, "You're turning into a Teletubby." And everybody knows it. So I Teletubby." And everybody knows it. So I Teletubby." And everybody knows it. So I repeat that to Melissa all the time. I'm repeat that to Melissa all the time. I'm repeat that to Melissa all the time. I'm like, I'm turning into a Teletubby and like, I'm turning into a Teletubby and like, I'm turning into a Teletubby and everybody knows it. But it's like that everybody knows it. But it's like that everybody knows it. But it's like that idea of it. Back to what you started idea of it. Back to what you started idea of it. Back to what you started with, Melissa. with, Melissa. with, Melissa. >> Not everybody's thinking about me. You >> Not everybody's thinking about me. You >> Not everybody's thinking about me. You know, it's that it's how can I have more know, it's that it's how can I have more know, it's that it's how can I have more self forgetfulness and more um self forgetfulness and more um self forgetfulness and more um remembrance of the glory of God, of what remembrance of the glory of God, of what remembrance of the glory of God, of what he's doing.

he's doing. he's doing. >> Um well, I think we could turn this into >> Um well, I think we could turn this into >> Um well, I think we could turn this into a six episode uh topic. This is huge. I a six episode uh topic. This is huge. I a six episode uh topic. This is huge. I mean, there are so many things that I mean, there are so many things that I mean, there are so many things that I want to unpack and want to continue want to unpack and want to continue want to unpack and want to continue pressing in on because it's Melissa and pressing in on because it's Melissa and pressing in on because it's Melissa and I've said this before, Lisa, but we just I've said this before, Lisa, but we just I've said this before, Lisa, but we just are learning real time and we love uh are learning real time and we love uh are learning real time and we love uh being able to learn from our guests. So, being able to learn from our guests. So, being able to learn from our guests. So, thank you so much for just the years thank you so much for just the years thank you so much for just the years you've spent thinking about this the way you've spent thinking about this the way you've spent thinking about this the way you've pressed into it because it is you've pressed into it because it is you've pressed into it because it is discipling me and and anybody else who's discipling me and and anybody else who's discipling me and and anybody else who's who's listening. So, thank you for being who's listening. So, thank you for being who's listening. So, thank you for being a guest on the deep dish. We do like to a guest on the deep dish. We do like to a guest on the deep dish. We do like to end by asking one lighter question. Now, end by asking one lighter question. Now, end by asking one lighter question. Now, I know we sort of made fun of the idea, I know we sort of made fun of the idea, I know we sort of made fun of the idea, you know, dismissed the idea of like you know, dismissed the idea of like you know, dismissed the idea of like saying, "Oh, well, one day in glory, our saying, "Oh, well, one day in glory, our saying, "Oh, well, one day in glory, our bodies are going to be able to do this." bodies are going to be able to do this." bodies are going to be able to do this." But I do think that in the same way that But I do think that in the same way that But I do think that in the same way that Jesus's body was able to do things that Jesus's body was able to do things that Jesus's body was able to do things that his non-resurrected body was not able to his non-resurrected body was not able to his non-resurrected body was not able to do, right? He was in one place and then do, right? He was in one place and then do, right? He was in one place and then he was in another. He walked through a he was in another. He walked through a he was in another. He walked through a door. Like, there are there are things door. Like, there are there are things door. Like, there are there are things that he was able to do. And I will that he was able to do. And I will that he was able to do. And I will confess, I have told many people uh that confess, I have told many people uh that confess, I have told many people uh that I think I will be able to ride a giraffe I think I will be able to ride a giraffe I think I will be able to ride a giraffe in the new heavens and the new earth.

in the new heavens and the new earth. in the new heavens and the new earth. And so I just think that yeah, it's And so I just think that yeah, it's And so I just think that yeah, it's going to be amazing. It's it is the going to be amazing. It's it is the going to be amazing. It's it is the thing I am the most looking forward to. thing I am the most looking forward to. thing I am the most looking forward to. And so I am very excited. The Avatar And so I am very excited. The Avatar And so I am very excited. The Avatar ride, the Pandora ride at Disney World ride, the Pandora ride at Disney World ride, the Pandora ride at Disney World is a glimpse of what I think the new is a glimpse of what I think the new is a glimpse of what I think the new heavens and the new earth are going to heavens and the new earth are going to heavens and the new earth are going to be like. be like. be like. >> I know it's all true though. But anyway, >> I know it's all true though. But anyway, >> I know it's all true though. But anyway, so so so >> don't encourage her, Lisa. >> don't encourage her, Lisa. >> don't encourage her, Lisa. >> I'm right next to her. I think this is >> I'm right next to her. I think this is >> I'm right next to her. I think this is going to be over there like what you're going to be over there like what you're going to be over there like what you're going to be so jealous. I mean, can you going to be so jealous. I mean, can you going to be so jealous. I mean, can you imagine? They're so beautiful when they imagine? They're so beautiful when they imagine? They're so beautiful when they run. Anyway, what is one thing even if run. Anyway, what is one thing even if run. Anyway, what is one thing even if you've never thought about it before you've never thought about it before you've never thought about it before this moment that you hope that your new this moment that you hope that your new this moment that you hope that your new body body body >> will be able to do that is is not >> will be able to do that is is not >> will be able to do that is is not something you can do in the current something you can do in the current something you can do in the current >> earth. This this is a fun question >> earth. This this is a fun question >> earth. This this is a fun question because my kids would they would love to because my kids would they would love to because my kids would they would love to answer this for me because they would be answer this for me because they would be answer this for me because they would be like there's so many things physically like there's so many things physically like there's so many things physically my mother cannot do. Um okay. Okay. I I my mother cannot do. Um okay. Okay. I I my mother cannot do. Um okay. Okay. I I I got an answer for this. There is no I got an answer for this. There is no I got an answer for this. There is no question. I I I will hiphop dance. question. I I I will hiphop dance. question. I I I will hiphop dance. >> Yeah, you will. I can promise you I >> Yeah, you will. I can promise you I >> Yeah, you will. I can promise you I there is nothing that I love on the face there is nothing that I love on the face there is nothing that I love on the face of this earth better than someone who is of this earth better than someone who is of this earth better than someone who is a killer hip-hop dancer.

a killer hip-hop dancer. a killer hip-hop dancer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So for me, I will hip-hop dance and I'm >> So for me, I will hip-hop dance and I'm >> So for me, I will hip-hop dance and I'm going to be so good. going to be so good. going to be so good. >> My kids would laugh so hard about that >> My kids would laugh so hard about that >> My kids would laugh so hard about that cuz they know they know that I cannot cuz they know they know that I cannot cuz they know they know that I cannot and that it would be so fun to watch me and that it would be so fun to watch me and that it would be so fun to watch me try. try. try. >> Friend, I think we're going to be >> Friend, I think we're going to be >> Friend, I think we're going to be hanging out a lot in the New Heavens and hanging out a lot in the New Heavens and hanging out a lot in the New Heavens and hiphop dancing. hiphop dancing. hiphop dancing. >> Courtney, I would love that more than >> Courtney, I would love that more than >> Courtney, I would love that more than anything. anything. anything. >> Very fun. Very fun. Well, friends, I'm >> Very fun. Very fun. Well, friends, I'm >> Very fun. Very fun. Well, friends, I'm going to be in my corner reading a book. >> It's so boring. >> It's so boring. >> It's so boring. >> It's so boring. >> It's so boring. >> You'll be able to hold a book for days >> You'll be able to hold a book for days >> You'll be able to hold a book for days on end. That'll be in your talk to me. on end. That'll be in your talk to me. on end. That'll be in your talk to me. It's going to be your thing. It's going to be your thing. It's going to be your thing. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> Awesome. >> I love it. Well, if you have enjoyed >> I love it. Well, if you have enjoyed >> I love it. Well, if you have enjoyed this episode of The Deep Dish, we hope this episode of The Deep Dish, we hope this episode of The Deep Dish, we hope you will share it with a friend. Uh you will share it with a friend. Uh you will share it with a friend. Uh continue this gospel conversation about continue this gospel conversation about continue this gospel conversation about whole body theology. Check out the whole body theology. Check out the whole body theology. Check out the resources, Lisa's new book included in resources, Lisa's new book included in resources, Lisa's new book included in the show notes and u more resource the show notes and u more resource the show notes and u more resource resources from the Gospel Coalition. See resources from the Gospel Coalition. See resources from the Gospel Coalition. See you next time.