Feeling Spiritually Discouraged? This Doctrine Is for You

Okay, so I'm going to ask you guys when Okay, so I'm going to ask you guys when you first started realizing like the you first started realizing like the you first started realizing like the centrality and the and the beauty and centrality and the and the beauty and centrality and the and the beauty and the necessity of this doctrine, but I the necessity of this doctrine, but I the necessity of this doctrine, but I want to tell you so for me when I was in want to tell you so for me when I was in want to tell you so for me when I was in seminary I had a professor who every seminary I had a professor who every seminary I had a professor who every single class and he always did his arms single class and he always did his arms single class and he always did his arms kind of like this and he was like it's kind of like this and he was like it's kind of like this and he was like it's all about union with Christ. It's all all about union with Christ. It's all all about union with Christ. It's all about union with Christ and you know about union with Christ and you know about union with Christ and you know it's kind of one of those things I was it's kind of one of those things I was it's kind of one of those things I was like yeah that sounds right, you know, like yeah that sounds right, you know, like yeah that sounds right, you know, it's it's I'm it does sound right, but I it's it's I'm it does sound right, but I it's it's I'm it does sound right, but I just didn't really get what he meant and just didn't really get what he meant and just didn't really get what he meant and then all of a sudden you know, you're then all of a sudden you know, you're then all of a sudden you know, you're reading and of course we'll probably end reading and of course we'll probably end reading and of course we'll probably end up going to Ephesians 1, but you're up going to Ephesians 1, but you're up going to Ephesians 1, but you're reading and all of a sudden all those reading and all of a sudden all those reading and all of a sudden all those little phrases that you just mentioned little phrases that you just mentioned little phrases that you just mentioned Rory, you know, in him, with him, Rory, you know, in him, with him, Rory, you know, in him, with him, um um um for him like it's all it just starts for him like it's all it just starts for him like it's all it just starts jumping off the page and you're like oh jumping off the page and you're like oh jumping off the page and you're like oh it really is it really is it really is all about union with Christ. So what all about union with Christ. So what all about union with Christ. So what about you guys? When did it like become about you guys? When did it like become about you guys? When did it like become like this lightbulb moment? like this lightbulb moment? like this lightbulb moment? >> Yeah, I was >> Yeah, I was >> Yeah, I was I was a seminary student and I was I was a seminary student and I was I was a seminary student and I was already I'd been in vocational ministry already I'd been in vocational ministry already I'd been in vocational ministry for a few years at that point was for a few years at that point was for a few years at that point was teaching God's word to students and I teaching God's word to students and I teaching God's word to students and I was sitting in a seminary classroom and was sitting in a seminary classroom and was sitting in a seminary classroom and the professor got up and he read through the professor got up and he read through the professor got up and he read through Ephesians chapter 1 Ephesians chapter 1 Ephesians chapter 1 and he had a Scottish accent. I'm not and he had a Scottish accent. I'm not and he had a Scottish accent. I'm not going to try to do a Scottish accent going to try to do a Scottish accent going to try to do a Scottish accent every accent I've ever tried ends up every accent I've ever tried ends up every accent I've ever tried ends up sounding vaguely Jamaican.

sounding vaguely Jamaican. sounding vaguely Jamaican. >> Well, we would do it. We would think it >> Well, we would do it. We would think it >> Well, we would do it. We would think it was Scottish cuz we don't we can't tell was Scottish cuz we don't we can't tell was Scottish cuz we don't we can't tell the difference, you know. the difference, you know. the difference, you know. >> very we're not very discerning, but this >> very we're not very discerning, but this >> very we're not very discerning, but this professor had a very booming Scottish professor had a very booming Scottish professor had a very booming Scottish accent, but the way he read Ephesians 1, accent, but the way he read Ephesians 1, accent, but the way he read Ephesians 1, he emphasized all those prepositional he emphasized all those prepositional he emphasized all those prepositional phrases and as he did so there really phrases and as he did so there really phrases and as he did so there really was no commentary he gave to the text was no commentary he gave to the text was no commentary he gave to the text and at the end he just said a faithful and at the end he just said a faithful and at the end he just said a faithful summary of what I've just read is that summary of what I've just read is that summary of what I've just read is that everything good that God has for you is everything good that God has for you is everything good that God has for you is in Christ. That's all he said and then in Christ. That's all he said and then in Christ. That's all he said and then we broke for lunch and honestly the word we broke for lunch and honestly the word we broke for lunch and honestly the word of God just shattered me in that moment. of God just shattered me in that moment. of God just shattered me in that moment. It was really just the reading of It was really just the reading of It was really just the reading of Ephesians chapter 1 with that very small Ephesians chapter 1 with that very small Ephesians chapter 1 with that very small one sentence commentary. Um, I did not one sentence commentary. Um, I did not one sentence commentary. Um, I did not even go back into the classroom that even go back into the classroom that even go back into the classroom that afternoon. We had a lunch break. It was afternoon. We had a lunch break. It was afternoon. We had a lunch break. It was one of those one-week minimesters. I one of those one-week minimesters. I one of those one-week minimesters. I walked around downtown Dallas where I walked around downtown Dallas where I walked around downtown Dallas where I was at uh and honestly just wept. It was at uh and honestly just wept. It was at uh and honestly just wept. It felt as close to a second conversion as felt as close to a second conversion as felt as close to a second conversion as I could really describe. It was really a I could really describe. It was really a I could really describe. It was really a re-awakening of the gospel in my heart. re-awakening of the gospel in my heart. re-awakening of the gospel in my heart. Uh I'm truly grateful for it. Truly Uh I'm truly grateful for it. Truly Uh I'm truly grateful for it. Truly grateful just for the reading of God's grateful just for the reading of God's grateful just for the reading of God's word in that moment.

word in that moment. word in that moment. >> Um, I think for me a little less um a >> Um, I think for me a little less um a >> Um, I think for me a little less um a little less dramatic but it was in um little less dramatic but it was in um little less dramatic but it was in um again at at um theological college or again at at um theological college or again at at um theological college or seminary and uh in the early years of seminary and uh in the early years of seminary and uh in the early years of Christian uh Christian ministry there Christian uh Christian ministry there Christian uh Christian ministry there were um I guess two two streams. There were um I guess two two streams. There were um I guess two two streams. There were a bunch of debates at the time were a bunch of debates at the time were a bunch of debates at the time uh about um the imputation of Christ's uh about um the imputation of Christ's uh about um the imputation of Christ's righteousness and um the alien righteousness and um the alien righteousness and um the alien righteousness of Christ that but they righteousness of Christ that but they righteousness of Christ that but they were like semi-technical debates and but were like semi-technical debates and but were like semi-technical debates and but you'd often find in a footnote um you'd often find in a footnote um you'd often find in a footnote um someone would say, "Oh, it's all someone would say, "Oh, it's all someone would say, "Oh, it's all resolved in union." Or it's all This is resolved in union." Or it's all This is resolved in union." Or it's all This is all kind of all comes together in union all kind of all comes together in union all kind of all comes together in union with Christ. And I would get frustrated with Christ. And I would get frustrated with Christ. And I would get frustrated with these books that wouldn't go on to with these books that wouldn't go on to with these books that wouldn't go on to explain that. And um so I had this sense explain that. And um so I had this sense explain that. And um so I had this sense at a um in the scholarship that there at a um in the scholarship that there at a um in the scholarship that there was this thing called union with Christ was this thing called union with Christ was this thing called union with Christ that a that a bunch of stuff was getting that a that a bunch of stuff was getting that a that a bunch of stuff was getting shipped toward but no one was unpacking shipped toward but no one was unpacking shipped toward but no one was unpacking it for me. Um it for me. Um it for me. Um and uh and then pastorally I guess there and uh and then pastorally I guess there and uh and then pastorally I guess there were a whole bunch of situations I I were a whole bunch of situations I I were a whole bunch of situations I I guess personally and pastorally um where guess personally and pastorally um where guess personally and pastorally um where it you became increasingly aware that it you became increasingly aware that it you became increasingly aware that that um that um that um uh I guess there was a sense of a maybe uh I guess there was a sense of a maybe uh I guess there was a sense of a maybe fragility in people's own sense of their fragility in people's own sense of their fragility in people's own sense of their um their place um their place um their place with God um their their confidence of um with God um their their confidence of um with God um their their confidence of um salvation, their um their ability to salvation, their um their ability to salvation, their um their ability to uh live the Christian life joyfully and uh live the Christian life joyfully and uh live the Christian life joyfully and um with uh with yeah with joyful sort of um with uh with yeah with joyful sort of um with uh with yeah with joyful sort of conviction. And um conviction. And um conviction. And um you know, I guess there was this this

you know, I guess there was this this you know, I guess there was this this slow release experience of uh Uh, I slow release experience of uh Uh, I slow release experience of uh Uh, I guess what Courtney was saying that this guess what Courtney was saying that this guess what Courtney was saying that this this fray these phrases keep jumping up this fray these phrases keep jumping up this fray these phrases keep jumping up in Christ with Christ these in Christ with Christ these in Christ with Christ these these pastoral plays happen in the New these pastoral plays happen in the New these pastoral plays happen in the New Testament where Testament where Testament where situations where we might say, situations where we might say, situations where we might say, um, um, um, oh, I wonder if that person's really a oh, I wonder if that person's really a oh, I wonder if that person's really a Christian. The the New Testament works Christian. The the New Testament works Christian. The the New Testament works on this kind of on this kind of on this kind of because you're a Christian you of course because you're a Christian you of course because you're a Christian you of course you should put this off put this on and you should put this off put this on and you should put this off put this on and it's not constantly throwing shade on it's not constantly throwing shade on it's not constantly throwing shade on whether, oh my goodness, maybe they're whether, oh my goodness, maybe they're whether, oh my goodness, maybe they're not believing hard enough or trying hard not believing hard enough or trying hard not believing hard enough or trying hard enough but enough but enough but because you're in Christ X Y and Z. So, because you're in Christ X Y and Z. So, because you're in Christ X Y and Z. So, there's this doctrine that was there's this doctrine that was there's this doctrine that was simultaneously simultaneously simultaneously you know, the solution to a bunch of, you know, the solution to a bunch of, you know, the solution to a bunch of, um, scholarly problems but then I um, scholarly problems but then I um, scholarly problems but then I couldn't find anyone who was unpacking couldn't find anyone who was unpacking couldn't find anyone who was unpacking it for me and, um, it for me and, um, it for me and, um, and biblically this solution to a whole and biblically this solution to a whole and biblically this solution to a whole bunch of pastoral, uh, problems and, uh, bunch of pastoral, uh, problems and, uh, bunch of pastoral, uh, problems and, uh, so then, uh, someone, uh, asked me at a so then, uh, someone, uh, asked me at a so then, uh, someone, uh, asked me at a conference to to speak on that topic conference to to speak on that topic conference to to speak on that topic and, um, and I thought, oh, absolutely.

and, um, and I thought, oh, absolutely. and, um, and I thought, oh, absolutely. And so, I took that deep dive in and And so, I took that deep dive in and And so, I took that deep dive in and never looked back had that, um, you never looked back had that, um, you never looked back had that, um, you know, terrific experience of, um, know, terrific experience of, um, know, terrific experience of, um, uh, yeah, al- almost that kind of, um, uh, yeah, al- almost that kind of, um, uh, yeah, al- almost that kind of, um, uh, uh, uh, those things that happen, I think, those things that happen, I think, those things that happen, I think, occasionally in the Christian life where occasionally in the Christian life where occasionally in the Christian life where you're like, how was I not told this you're like, how was I not told this you're like, how was I not told this before? And, um, you know, who do I hold before? And, um, you know, who do I hold before? And, um, you know, who do I hold personally responsible for letting me personally responsible for letting me personally responsible for letting me get this far without understanding this? get this far without understanding this? get this far without understanding this? Um, Um, Um, uh, so that that that's how it how it uh, so that that that's how it how it uh, so that that that's how it how it happened for me. happened for me. happened for me. >> It's like when people first understand >> It's like when people first understand >> It's like when people first understand the whole story of scripture and they're the whole story of scripture and they're the whole story of scripture and they're like, how was I not told this before? like, how was I not told this before? like, how was I not told this before? This is how I feel about union with This is how I feel about union with This is how I feel about union with Christ. And so, you know, it's it's just Christ. And so, you know, it's it's just Christ. And so, you know, it's it's just as kind of paradigm shifting as as if as kind of paradigm shifting as as if as kind of paradigm shifting as as if you've, you know, if the biblical story you've, you know, if the biblical story you've, you know, if the biblical story has come alive for you, union with has come alive for you, union with has come alive for you, union with Christ, you need to dive into that next. Christ, you need to dive into that next. Christ, you need to dive into that next. Well, I think each of you in your books, Well, I think each of you in your books, Well, I think each of you in your books, you did such a good job with just making you did such a good job with just making you did such a good job with just making it so understandable and you each use an it so understandable and you each use an it so understandable and you each use an analogy. So, Rory, yours is about an analogy. So, Rory, yours is about an analogy. So, Rory, yours is about an airplane that I have used a thousand and airplane that I have used a thousand and airplane that I have used a thousand and three times and Kyle, yours is about a three times and Kyle, yours is about a three times and Kyle, yours is about a road trip. And I love there's there's road trip. And I love there's there's road trip. And I love there's there's uh, um uh, um uh, um Anyway, I would love for you guys to Anyway, I would love for you guys to Anyway, I would love for you guys to take even 30 seconds and tell 60 seconds take even 30 seconds and tell 60 seconds take even 30 seconds and tell 60 seconds and tell the the story of so that so and tell the the story of so that so and tell the the story of so that so that we have that word picture in our that we have that word picture in our that we have that word picture in our minds because it really is where like minds because it really is where like minds because it really is where like the marble dropped for me and I was the marble dropped for me and I was the marble dropped for me and I was like, "Oh, that makes so much sense."

like, "Oh, that makes so much sense." like, "Oh, that makes so much sense." So, Kyle, you want to go first on this So, Kyle, you want to go first on this So, Kyle, you want to go first on this one? one? one? >> Yeah, sure. I I talk about >> Yeah, sure. I I talk about >> Yeah, sure. I I talk about maybe two things. Um uh maybe two things. Um uh maybe two things. Um uh I talk about the road trip, certainly I talk about the road trip, certainly I talk about the road trip, certainly that if we were going on a road trip and that if we were going on a road trip and that if we were going on a road trip and I had packed up the car with all of your I had packed up the car with all of your I had packed up the car with all of your favorite stuff um and we were headed favorite stuff um and we were headed favorite stuff um and we were headed from my house out to the Oregon coast. from my house out to the Oregon coast. from my house out to the Oregon coast. We love the Oregon coast, but it's far We love the Oregon coast, but it's far We love the Oregon coast, but it's far away. We were going to make this road away. We were going to make this road away. We were going to make this road trip. Just asking, "Where do you need to trip. Just asking, "Where do you need to trip. Just asking, "Where do you need to be in relationship to the car to get to be in relationship to the car to get to be in relationship to the car to get to the Oregon coast from Dallas?" And you the Oregon coast from Dallas?" And you the Oregon coast from Dallas?" And you could try to get out in front of the car could try to get out in front of the car could try to get out in front of the car and pull us along with a rope. You could and pull us along with a rope. You could and pull us along with a rope. You could back to the future style and grab the back to the future style and grab the back to the future style and grab the back bumper on a hoverboard or back bumper on a hoverboard or back bumper on a hoverboard or skateboard and try to ride along behind skateboard and try to ride along behind skateboard and try to ride along behind us. You could strap yourselves to the us. You could strap yourselves to the us. You could strap yourselves to the roof or the bottom of the car. Uh you roof or the bottom of the car. Uh you roof or the bottom of the car. Uh you could run alongside or try to run out could run alongside or try to run out could run alongside or try to run out ahead. ahead. ahead. But you know that where you really need But you know that where you really need But you know that where you really need to be to get to where we're going is you to be to get to where we're going is you to be to get to where we're going is you need to be in the car. And if you're in need to be in the car. And if you're in need to be in the car. And if you're in the car, the car, the car, no matter the roadblocks, no matter the no matter the roadblocks, no matter the no matter the roadblocks, no matter the detours, if you're in the car, you'll detours, if you're in the car, you'll detours, if you're in the car, you'll get to the destination. And that that get to the destination. And that that get to the destination. And that that kind of connects to a really deep kind of connects to a really deep kind of connects to a really deep reality of our union with Christ is that reality of our union with Christ is that reality of our union with Christ is that once we by grace through faith in Christ once we by grace through faith in Christ once we by grace through faith in Christ are knit to Jesus, we're united with are knit to Jesus, we're united with are knit to Jesus, we're united with Christ. This is now an unbreakable, Christ. This is now an unbreakable, Christ. This is now an unbreakable, unshakeable, unchangeable union. Nothing unshakeable, unchangeable union. Nothing unshakeable, unchangeable union. Nothing can deepen it. Nothing can disrupt it.

can deepen it. Nothing can disrupt it. can deepen it. Nothing can disrupt it. Nothing can separate us from the love of Nothing can separate us from the love of Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. And I think it's a great God in Christ. And I think it's a great God in Christ. And I think it's a great comfort, comfort, comfort, but it's also, as Rory was signaling, but it's also, as Rory was signaling, but it's also, as Rory was signaling, it's a great foundation for Christian it's a great foundation for Christian it's a great foundation for Christian faithfulness because faithfulness because faithfulness because now we can kind of risk everything in now we can kind of risk everything in now we can kind of risk everything in this grand adventure knowing that at the this grand adventure knowing that at the this grand adventure knowing that at the very the very worst we cannot lose the very the very worst we cannot lose the very the very worst we cannot lose the forever love of God in Christ. And forever love of God in Christ. And forever love of God in Christ. And that's an incredible freedom. Once you that's an incredible freedom. Once you that's an incredible freedom. Once you begin to begin to begin to Once you begin to really walk in the Once you begin to really walk in the Once you begin to really walk in the power of that, there's there's real power of that, there's there's real power of that, there's there's real freedom there. freedom there. freedom there. >> Yeah, you're not going to get kicked out >> Yeah, you're not going to get kicked out >> Yeah, you're not going to get kicked out of that car. of that car. of that car. >> No, you're not. You're not going to get >> No, you're not. You're not going to get >> No, you're not. You're not going to get booted out. booted out. booted out. >> Brooke, tell us about the plane going to >> Brooke, tell us about the plane going to >> Brooke, tell us about the plane going to Melbourne. Melbourne, now I say it Melbourne. Melbourne, now I say it Melbourne. Melbourne, now I say it right. right. right. >> Melbourne, that's that's exactly right. >> Melbourne, that's that's exactly right. >> Melbourne, that's that's exactly right. Now, so yeah, very similar to to Carl Now, so yeah, very similar to to Carl Now, so yeah, very similar to to Carl cuz I think what I think one of the cuz I think what I think one of the cuz I think what I think one of the challenges with union course, one of the challenges with union course, one of the challenges with union course, one of the ways I think we don't grasp it is it ways I think we don't grasp it is it ways I think we don't grasp it is it we kind of know what a sacrifice is, we we kind of know what a sacrifice is, we we kind of know what a sacrifice is, we know what first fruits are in an know what first fruits are in an know what first fruits are in an orchard, that's the resurrection, we orchard, that's the resurrection, we orchard, that's the resurrection, we know what um and union is a know what um and union is a know what um and union is a the technical word is it's a locative the technical word is it's a locative the technical word is it's a locative idea, it's about a location. And you idea, it's about a location. And you idea, it's about a location. And you know, what does it mean to be in know, what does it mean to be in know, what does it mean to be in someone? And so someone? And so someone? And so my illustration, very similar to Carl, my illustration, very similar to Carl, my illustration, very similar to Carl, was a plane was a plane was a plane um uh that So, if you imagine two people um uh that So, if you imagine two people um uh that So, if you imagine two people uh get to the airport, you're looking at uh get to the airport, you're looking at uh get to the airport, you're looking at the plane and the plane and the plane and you've got your ticket and you think, you've got your ticket and you think, you've got your ticket and you think, "What do I do? Do I Do I chase it? Do I "What do I do? Do I Do I chase it? Do I "What do I do? Do I Do I chase it? Do I get inspired by it? Do I um uh do I get inspired by it? Do I um uh do I get inspired by it? Do I um uh do I learn from it?" And the the thing is, learn from it?" And the the thing is, learn from it?" And the the thing is, you need to be in it because you need to be in it because you need to be in it because once you're in it, once you're in it, once you're in it, where it goes is where you'll go. And in where it goes is where you'll go. And in where it goes is where you'll go. And in the illustration, I I like to introduce the illustration, I I like to introduce the illustration, I I like to introduce two different people. So, here's someone

two different people. So, here's someone two different people. So, here's someone who goes to Melbourne who goes to Melbourne who goes to Melbourne you know, once a month for you know, the you know, once a month for you know, the you know, once a month for you know, the board conference. They've got frequent board conference. They've got frequent board conference. They've got frequent flyer points for days. They flyer points for days. They flyer points for days. They completely confident. They don't listen completely confident. They don't listen completely confident. They don't listen when the when the when the when the when the when the you know, cabin staff are explaining how you know, cabin staff are explaining how you know, cabin staff are explaining how to keep safe and where the exit rows are to keep safe and where the exit rows are to keep safe and where the exit rows are cuz they're just so confident that this cuz they're just so confident that this cuz they're just so confident that this plane's going to get them where it's plane's going to get them where it's plane's going to get them where it's going to take them. And then here's a going to take them. And then here's a going to take them. And then here's a second person, first time on a plane, second person, first time on a plane, second person, first time on a plane, never been to Melbourne before, never never been to Melbourne before, never never been to Melbourne before, never been in a plane before, and they're been in a plane before, and they're been in a plane before, and they're nervous and they're fretful and they're nervous and they're fretful and they're nervous and they're fretful and they're constantly asking questions. And constantly asking questions. And constantly asking questions. And when the when the when the cabin crew are explaining the safety cabin crew are explaining the safety cabin crew are explaining the safety procedures, they're taking notes and procedures, they're taking notes and procedures, they're taking notes and then they're revising it across the then they're revising it across the then they're revising it across the uh across the journey. And my two uh across the journey. And my two uh across the journey. And my two questions are um, questions are um, questions are um, you know, which of those two people has you know, which of those two people has you know, which of those two people has more faith? more faith? more faith? And um, I I think that's an answerable And um, I I think that's an answerable And um, I I think that's an answerable question. The The person with a higher question. The The person with a higher question. The The person with a higher degrees of confidence has more faith in degrees of confidence has more faith in degrees of confidence has more faith in the the the plane and it's it's crew. But the second plane and it's it's crew. But the second plane and it's it's crew. But the second question is, of those two, which of them question is, of those two, which of them question is, of those two, which of them gets to Melbourne?

gets to Melbourne? gets to Melbourne? And then I think the And then I think the And then I think the the story completely changes then the story completely changes then the story completely changes then because the moment you say which of them because the moment you say which of them because the moment you say which of them gets to Melbourne, gets to Melbourne, gets to Melbourne, the confident person doesn't get to the confident person doesn't get to the confident person doesn't get to Melbourne quicker or better. Melbourne quicker or better. Melbourne quicker or better. And the the fearful person doesn't get And the the fearful person doesn't get And the the fearful person doesn't get there. there. there. >> more to Melbourne? >> more to Melbourne? >> more to Melbourne? >> Yeah, that's right. No one's getting >> Yeah, that's right. No one's getting >> Yeah, that's right. No one's getting more to Melbourne. That at that point, more to Melbourne. That at that point, more to Melbourne. That at that point, the question's almost absurd because the question's almost absurd because the question's almost absurd because it's entirely dependent not on how much it's entirely dependent not on how much it's entirely dependent not on how much faith you had, but on what your faith faith you had, but on what your faith faith you had, but on what your faith was in. was in. was in. And I think that's a that's a And I think that's a that's a And I think that's a that's a uh uh uh key part of union with Christ is that it key part of union with Christ is that it key part of union with Christ is that it flips that narrative. Um, flips that narrative. Um, flips that narrative. Um, which ironically is a is a is a a way or which ironically is a is a is a a way or which ironically is a is a is a a way or not ironically, paradoxically, a way to not ironically, paradoxically, a way to not ironically, paradoxically, a way to build confidence is to get it off you build confidence is to get it off you build confidence is to get it off you and onto the thing uh that you've placed and onto the thing uh that you've placed and onto the thing uh that you've placed yourself in or the person in the case of yourself in or the person in the case of yourself in or the person in the case of Jesus.