What Is Biblical Theology?

Yeah, it's like a flannelraphph Yeah, it's like a flannelraphph Christianity, right? Where you have Christianity, right? Where you have Christianity, right? Where you have flannelraphs you you know in Sunday flannelraphs you you know in Sunday flannelraphs you you know in Sunday school and you know that one event, that school and you know that one event, that school and you know that one event, that one story, but the flannel graphs, as one story, but the flannel graphs, as one story, but the flannel graphs, as great as they are, I I'm a big fan. great as they are, I I'm a big fan. great as they are, I I'm a big fan. >> I think we should bring them back to be >> I think we should bring them back to be >> I think we should bring them back to be honest. honest. honest. >> I I really like it. The problem is that >> I I really like it. The problem is that >> I I really like it. The problem is that you can't it's hard to connect all those you can't it's hard to connect all those you can't it's hard to connect all those stories cuz the it's it's hard there's stories cuz the it's it's hard there's stories cuz the it's it's hard there's always so much space you could fit these always so much space you could fit these always so much space you could fit these things on. Welcome to the Biblical Theology Welcome to the Biblical Theology Briefing, a podcast from the Gospel Briefing, a podcast from the Gospel Briefing, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition. I'm Matt Harmon. And I'm Ben Coalition. I'm Matt Harmon. And I'm Ben Coalition. I'm Matt Harmon. And I'm Ben Glad Glad Glad >> and we are grateful you're joining us on >> and we are grateful you're joining us on >> and we are grateful you're joining us on this ina inaugural episode of the this ina inaugural episode of the this ina inaugural episode of the Biblical Theology Briefing. So Ben, uh Biblical Theology Briefing. So Ben, uh Biblical Theology Briefing. So Ben, uh why don't we start with who is this why don't we start with who is this why don't we start with who is this podcast for? Who who would we envision podcast for? Who who would we envision podcast for? Who who would we envision our audience being for for this podcast? our audience being for for this podcast? our audience being for for this podcast? >> Yeah. So on the one hand and primarily >> Yeah. So on the one hand and primarily >> Yeah. So on the one hand and primarily this podcast is for an ordinary this podcast is for an ordinary this podcast is for an ordinary Christian, somebody who goes to church, Christian, somebody who goes to church, Christian, somebody who goes to church, is faithful, goes to Sunday school, is faithful, goes to Sunday school, is faithful, goes to Sunday school, reads reads the Bible, loves Christ, reads reads the Bible, loves Christ, reads reads the Bible, loves Christ, loves the gospel, yet wants to know more loves the gospel, yet wants to know more loves the gospel, yet wants to know more about the Bible, wants to go a little about the Bible, wants to go a little about the Bible, wants to go a little bit deeper, wants to figure out how do bit deeper, wants to figure out how do bit deeper, wants to figure out how do all the pieces fit together.

all the pieces fit together. all the pieces fit together. They've probably heard of biblical They've probably heard of biblical They've probably heard of biblical theology, theology, theology, um, but they want to just learn more um, but they want to just learn more um, but they want to just learn more about it. What is it? How does it work? about it. What is it? How does it work? about it. What is it? How does it work? maybe even how to do something something maybe even how to do something something maybe even how to do something something with it. with it. with it. >> Yeah. So, our heart really is to help >> Yeah. So, our heart really is to help >> Yeah. So, our heart really is to help the uh ordinary Christian learn how to the uh ordinary Christian learn how to the uh ordinary Christian learn how to read their Bibles more faithfully read their Bibles more faithfully read their Bibles more faithfully because we're convinced that that is because we're convinced that that is because we're convinced that that is central to the Christian life. It's central to the Christian life. It's central to the Christian life. It's central to being a faithful Christian. central to being a faithful Christian. central to being a faithful Christian. And I think, and I'm sure you've And I think, and I'm sure you've And I think, and I'm sure you've experienced this as well, Ben, based on experienced this as well, Ben, based on experienced this as well, Ben, based on not just your time in uh in the academy, not just your time in uh in the academy, not just your time in uh in the academy, but in the local church, I know I but in the local church, I know I but in the local church, I know I encounter Christians regularly who want encounter Christians regularly who want encounter Christians regularly who want to read the Bible, know they should read to read the Bible, know they should read to read the Bible, know they should read the Bible, but oftentimes feel just a the Bible, but oftentimes feel just a the Bible, but oftentimes feel just a little bit of frustration because little bit of frustration because little bit of frustration because they're not really sure. Well, when I they're not really sure. Well, when I they're not really sure. Well, when I sit down to read the Bible, I don't know sit down to read the Bible, I don't know sit down to read the Bible, I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for, or what I'm supposed to be looking for, or what I'm supposed to be looking for, or I don't know what I'm supposed to be I don't know what I'm supposed to be I don't know what I'm supposed to be paying attention to or focusing on. and paying attention to or focusing on. and paying attention to or focusing on. and they get a little bit of uh get a little they get a little bit of uh get a little they get a little bit of uh get a little bit frustrated honestly about that. And bit frustrated honestly about that. And bit frustrated honestly about that. And so I think this podcast can help uh so I think this podcast can help uh so I think this podcast can help uh people read their Bibles more people read their Bibles more people read their Bibles more effectively so that they can live more effectively so that they can live more effectively so that they can live more faithfully as disciples of Jesus. But faithfully as disciples of Jesus. But faithfully as disciples of Jesus. But that's not the only audience we have.

that's not the only audience we have. that's not the only audience we have. No, No, No, >> it's not. Uh there's also somebody else >> it's not. Uh there's also somebody else >> it's not. Uh there's also somebody else in mind that we that we're thinking in mind that we that we're thinking in mind that we that we're thinking about when we talk and that's your about when we talk and that's your about when we talk and that's your biblical theology junkie. You're nerd. biblical theology junkie. You're nerd. biblical theology junkie. You're nerd. You're a guy or or a girl who has read You're a guy or or a girl who has read You're a guy or or a girl who has read lots of biblical theology type works. Uh lots of biblical theology type works. Uh lots of biblical theology type works. Uh probably knows your name, Matt. probably knows your name, Matt. probably knows your name, Matt. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I'm sure they know your name. >> I'm sure they know your name. >> I'm sure they know your name. >> I don't think so. I don't think so. Only >> I don't think so. I don't think so. Only >> I don't think so. I don't think so. Only my mom does. [laughter] my mom does. [laughter] my mom does. [laughter] >> Somebody who loves biblical theology, >> Somebody who loves biblical theology, >> Somebody who loves biblical theology, reads people like uh a Steven Dempster, reads people like uh a Steven Dempster, reads people like uh a Steven Dempster, a Don Carson, an Greg Beal, some of a Don Carson, an Greg Beal, some of a Don Carson, an Greg Beal, some of these household names, maybe even Jim these household names, maybe even Jim these household names, maybe even Jim Hamilton, and who wants to know more. or Hamilton, and who wants to know more. or Hamilton, and who wants to know more. or they've wanted they want to take it to they've wanted they want to take it to they've wanted they want to take it to the next level and so we want to drop the next level and so we want to drop the next level and so we want to drop some nuggets for them. We also want to some nuggets for them. We also want to some nuggets for them. We also want to recommend uh some cutting edge recommend uh some cutting edge recommend uh some cutting edge resources. What's so nice about the resources. What's so nice about the resources. What's so nice about the projects that we're involved with is projects that we're involved with is projects that we're involved with is that we're sort of at the very, you that we're sort of at the very, you that we're sort of at the very, you know, cutting edge of things moving and know, cutting edge of things moving and know, cutting edge of things moving and it's a lot of fun to share, hey, this it's a lot of fun to share, hey, this it's a lot of fun to share, hey, this book is coming out in a couple months. book is coming out in a couple months. book is coming out in a couple months. Be sure to pick it up. This is what it's Be sure to pick it up. This is what it's Be sure to pick it up. This is what it's about. We'll also interview guests uh about. We'll also interview guests uh about. We'll also interview guests uh authors who are writing these cutting authors who are writing these cutting authors who are writing these cutting edge resources to to listen to them what edge resources to to listen to them what edge resources to to listen to them what they've learned, their experience, their they've learned, their experience, their they've learned, their experience, their knowledge. Yeah.

knowledge. Yeah. knowledge. Yeah. >> And yeah, so we're really we're here for >> And yeah, so we're really we're here for >> And yeah, so we're really we're here for everybody from a beginner, intermediate, everybody from a beginner, intermediate, everybody from a beginner, intermediate, and maybe even somebody who's advanced. and maybe even somebody who's advanced. and maybe even somebody who's advanced. >> Yeah. So we we certainly want to also be >> Yeah. So we we certainly want to also be >> Yeah. So we we certainly want to also be an encouragement to pastors, seminary an encouragement to pastors, seminary an encouragement to pastors, seminary students, the the people who probably students, the the people who probably students, the the people who probably are a little bit familiar with biblical are a little bit familiar with biblical are a little bit familiar with biblical theology or maybe are very familiar with theology or maybe are very familiar with theology or maybe are very familiar with it. And that's one of the beauties of it. And that's one of the beauties of it. And that's one of the beauties of biblical theology is there's just so biblical theology is there's just so biblical theology is there's just so much richness to it that even though you much richness to it that even though you much richness to it that even though you and I have both studied biblical and I have both studied biblical and I have both studied biblical theology for decades now, we're still theology for decades now, we're still theology for decades now, we're still learning a lot ourselves. And so we we learning a lot ourselves. And so we we learning a lot ourselves. And so we we have started this podcast to help people have started this podcast to help people have started this podcast to help people be able to understand what biblical be able to understand what biblical be able to understand what biblical theology is as a means of better reading theology is as a means of better reading theology is as a means of better reading reading their Bibles more faithfully and reading their Bibles more faithfully and reading their Bibles more faithfully and walking with Jesus more faithfully. So walking with Jesus more faithfully. So walking with Jesus more faithfully. So let's talk a little bit about um who in let's talk a little bit about um who in let's talk a little bit about um who in the world are are these guys on this the world are are these guys on this the world are are these guys on this podcast? Like why should we even listen podcast? Like why should we even listen podcast? Like why should we even listen to them? So Ben, let's start with you. to them? So Ben, let's start with you. to them? So Ben, let's start with you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Why don't you tell us a little bit about Why don't you tell us a little bit about what your what your current uh job is?

what your what your current uh job is? what your what your current uh job is? Yeah. So, my current job is uh if I Yeah. So, my current job is uh if I Yeah. So, my current job is uh if I believe quote, you can quote this, the believe quote, you can quote this, the believe quote, you can quote this, the executive director of the Carson Center executive director of the Carson Center executive director of the Carson Center for Theological Renewal at the Gospel for Theological Renewal at the Gospel for Theological Renewal at the Gospel Coalition. I have the longest business Coalition. I have the longest business Coalition. I have the longest business card. card. card. >> I bet. Yeah. >> I bet. Yeah. >> I bet. Yeah. >> Of any. And my email is very long as >> Of any. And my email is very long as >> Of any. And my email is very long as well. well. well. Benjamin.gladthegosspelcoalition.org. It's a lot. I don't even like giving it It's a lot. I don't even like giving it to people. to people. to people. >> Well, you just gave it to a lot of >> Well, you just gave it to a lot of >> Well, you just gave it to a lot of people right now. That's totally fine. people right now. That's totally fine. people right now. That's totally fine. Please, it's out there. It's public. Please, it's out there. It's public. Please, it's out there. It's public. reach out to me. reach out to me. reach out to me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh I'll say it and not type it. So >> Uh I'll say it and not type it. So >> Uh I'll say it and not type it. So that's that's what I do. Well, what does that's that's what I do. Well, what does that's that's what I do. Well, what does that mean? Uh the Gospel Coalition, it that mean? Uh the Gospel Coalition, it that mean? Uh the Gospel Coalition, it is a very large organization. We're is a very large organization. We're is a very large organization. We're known for our website. We're known for known for our website. We're known for known for our website. We're known for our conferences, but it also has these our conferences, but it also has these our conferences, but it also has these two centers. The Keller Center and the two centers. The Keller Center and the two centers. The Keller Center and the Carson Center. The Keller Center is for Carson Center. The Keller Center is for Carson Center. The Keller Center is for apologetics and cultural engagement, apologetics and cultural engagement, apologetics and cultural engagement, which reflects Tim Keller. which reflects Tim Keller. which reflects Tim Keller. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then Don Carson was big in the >> And then Don Carson was big in the >> And then Don Carson was big in the biblical theology. And so that's what biblical theology. And so that's what biblical theology. And so that's what the Carson Center is all about. All the Carson Center is all about. All the Carson Center is all about. All things biblical theology creating things biblical theology creating things biblical theology creating resources and then freely distributing resources and then freely distributing resources and then freely distributing them to the global uh church. Uh that's them to the global uh church. Uh that's them to the global uh church. Uh that's what I do. I just I spent 12 and a half what I do. I just I spent 12 and a half what I do. I just I spent 12 and a half years at Reformed Theological Seminary years at Reformed Theological Seminary years at Reformed Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. I was professor in Jackson, Mississippi. I was professor in Jackson, Mississippi. I was professor of New Testament there. So I still teach of New Testament there. So I still teach of New Testament there. So I still teach quite a bit uh in conferences or in the quite a bit uh in conferences or in the quite a bit uh in conferences or in the class. So, I still do a lot of academic class. So, I still do a lot of academic class. So, I still do a lot of academic type stuff, but I'm now working type stuff, but I'm now working type stuff, but I'm now working full-time at Gospel Coalition. So, what full-time at Gospel Coalition. So, what full-time at Gospel Coalition. So, what do you do, Matt?

do you do, Matt? do you do, Matt? >> Yeah. So, this is just a side hustle for >> Yeah. So, this is just a side hustle for >> Yeah. So, this is just a side hustle for me this podcast right here. Um, but uh me this podcast right here. Um, but uh me this podcast right here. Um, but uh my real job, my day job is uh professor my real job, my day job is uh professor my real job, my day job is uh professor of New Testament studies at Grace of New Testament studies at Grace of New Testament studies at Grace College and Grace Theological Seminary College and Grace Theological Seminary College and Grace Theological Seminary in beautiful Winona Lake. in beautiful Winona Lake. in beautiful Winona Lake. >> How long have you done? >> How long have you done? >> How long have you done? >> It's been a It's been a minute. It's >> It's been a It's been a minute. It's >> It's been a It's been a minute. It's yeah I mean this is my uh currently my yeah I mean this is my uh currently my yeah I mean this is my uh currently my 19th academic year. So since 2006 19th academic year. So since 2006 19th academic year. So since 2006 >> I have been here. So uh which means most >> I have been here. So uh which means most >> I have been here. So uh which means most of my days are spent teaching Greek and of my days are spent teaching Greek and of my days are spent teaching Greek and New Testament classes. But all for the New Testament classes. But all for the New Testament classes. But all for the goal really of helping students both at goal really of helping students both at goal really of helping students both at the undergraduate level and at the the undergraduate level and at the the undergraduate level and at the master's level learn how to read their master's level learn how to read their master's level learn how to read their Bible more effectively to learn it more Bible more effectively to learn it more Bible more effectively to learn it more to learn to read it more faithfully to learn to read it more faithfully to learn to read it more faithfully to not only help them grow in their love to not only help them grow in their love to not only help them grow in their love for Jesus but to equip them for uh for Jesus but to equip them for uh for Jesus but to equip them for uh serving in the local church or serving serving in the local church or serving serving in the local church or serving on the mission field or simply being a on the mission field or simply being a on the mission field or simply being a faithful member of their local faithful member of their local faithful member of their local congregation. And so that's really at congregation. And so that's really at congregation. And so that's really at the heart of what I do on a regular the heart of what I do on a regular the heart of what I do on a regular basis is help people learn how to read basis is help people learn how to read basis is help people learn how to read the Bible. You know, there's nothing one the Bible. You know, there's nothing one the Bible. You know, there's nothing one of my favorite things about teaching is of my favorite things about teaching is of my favorite things about teaching is teaching something that is new to the teaching something that is new to the teaching something that is new to the student and then you can you can student and then you can you can student and then you can you can physically see the the how their physically see the the how their physically see the the how their countenance changes.

countenance changes. countenance changes. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it it really is a light goes off in >> it it really is a light goes off in >> it it really is a light goes off in their head and they they are now seeing their head and they they are now seeing their head and they they are now seeing the Bible differently. And when I, it the Bible differently. And when I, it the Bible differently. And when I, it doesn't happen all that much in Greek, I doesn't happen all that much in Greek, I doesn't happen all that much in Greek, I must confess, [laughter] it's not as must confess, [laughter] it's not as must confess, [laughter] it's not as life-changing, life-changing, life-changing, but when I apply what we learn about but when I apply what we learn about but when I apply what we learn about Greek to the biblical text and to Greek to the biblical text and to Greek to the biblical text and to biblical theology, students are excited biblical theology, students are excited biblical theology, students are excited about it. And so whether I'm in the about it. And so whether I'm in the about it. And so whether I'm in the classroom or I'm in a Sunday school classroom or I'm in a Sunday school classroom or I'm in a Sunday school context or preaching, it is just amazing context or preaching, it is just amazing context or preaching, it is just amazing to see uh people, they're they're just to see uh people, they're they're just to see uh people, they're they're just in love with the Bible, they're in love in love with the Bible, they're in love in love with the Bible, they're in love with God, and it really deepens that with God, and it really deepens that with God, and it really deepens that connection. connection. connection. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I I know both of >> Yeah, absolutely. And I I know both of >> Yeah, absolutely. And I I know both of us have a heart both for the local us have a heart both for the local us have a heart both for the local church as well as uh are active in the church as well as uh are active in the church as well as uh are active in the scholarly community, the academic scholarly community, the academic scholarly community, the academic community where we're presenting papers community where we're presenting papers community where we're presenting papers at academic conferences and writing in at academic conferences and writing in at academic conferences and writing in that area, but also at the same time that area, but also at the same time that area, but also at the same time have a heart for the local church and so have a heart for the local church and so have a heart for the local church and so trying to produce resources for the trying to produce resources for the trying to produce resources for the ordinary Christian who can benefit from ordinary Christian who can benefit from ordinary Christian who can benefit from them as well. And both of us, I think, them as well. And both of us, I think, them as well. And both of us, I think, uh, try to navigate that, having one uh, try to navigate that, having one uh, try to navigate that, having one foot in both of those worlds, right? A foot in both of those worlds, right? A foot in both of those worlds, right? A foot in the church, a foot in the foot in the church, a foot in the foot in the church, a foot in the academic world.

academic world. academic world. >> Sometimes it feels like a toe. Yeah. Or >> Sometimes it feels like a toe. Yeah. Or >> Sometimes it feels like a toe. Yeah. Or it feels like a hole. Like it's it's it feels like a hole. Like it's it's it feels like a hole. Like it's it's hard to maintain 50/50 balance at times. hard to maintain 50/50 balance at times. hard to maintain 50/50 balance at times. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> So, uh, why don't we why don't we dig >> So, uh, why don't we why don't we dig >> So, uh, why don't we why don't we dig into a little bit in terms of when did into a little bit in terms of when did into a little bit in terms of when did your, uh, your love for or appreciation your, uh, your love for or appreciation your, uh, your love for or appreciation for biblical theology really take off? for biblical theology really take off? for biblical theology really take off? when did it start to just ramp up and uh when did it start to just ramp up and uh when did it start to just ramp up and uh become a a key component of your life? become a a key component of your life? become a a key component of your life? >> I grew up in a Christian home. I'm very >> I grew up in a Christian home. I'm very >> I grew up in a Christian home. I'm very thankful for that. Um I trusted Christ thankful for that. Um I trusted Christ thankful for that. Um I trusted Christ when I was 5 years old and um so I grew when I was 5 years old and um so I grew when I was 5 years old and um so I grew up, you know, around the Bible in the up, you know, around the Bible in the up, you know, around the Bible in the local church. Those things were very local church. Those things were very local church. Those things were very natural for me at a young age. Uh but I natural for me at a young age. Uh but I natural for me at a young age. Uh but I had grown up also in a dispensation, had grown up also in a dispensation, had grown up also in a dispensation, like classic dispensationalism. I didn't like classic dispensationalism. I didn't like classic dispensationalism. I didn't know what that was when I was five or know what that was when I was five or know what that was when I was five or when I was grow I didn't know what that when I was grow I didn't know what that when I was grow I didn't know what that was. But then as I got older and went was. But then as I got older and went was. But then as I got older and went away to college I realized that I was away to college I realized that I was away to college I realized that I was taught uh even at college that the Old taught uh even at college that the Old taught uh even at college that the Old Testament and the New Testament are not Testament and the New Testament are not Testament and the New Testament are not all that related because within all that related because within all that related because within dispensationalism dispensationalism dispensationalism the idea is that God has two plans. One the idea is that God has two plans. One the idea is that God has two plans. One plan for Israel, one plan for the plan for Israel, one plan for the plan for Israel, one plan for the church. And so what that creates then is church. And so what that creates then is church. And so what that creates then is a bifurcation is a separation between a bifurcation is a separation between a bifurcation is a separation between the Old and New Testaments. And so it the Old and New Testaments. And so it the Old and New Testaments. And so it wasn't until grad school when that was wasn't until grad school when that was wasn't until grad school when that was undone when I started to see, wait a undone when I started to see, wait a undone when I started to see, wait a minute, that's not how the apostles are minute, that's not how the apostles are minute, that's not how the apostles are reading the Old Testament. That's not reading the Old Testament. That's not reading the Old Testament. That's not how Jesus is reading his Old Testament.

how Jesus is reading his Old Testament. how Jesus is reading his Old Testament. And so that then got me into this field And so that then got me into this field And so that then got me into this field called the use of the Old Testament in called the use of the Old Testament in called the use of the Old Testament in the New the New the New Testaments together. And that was really Testaments together. And that was really Testaments together. And that was really a a a watershed point in my life. So a a a watershed point in my life. So a a a watershed point in my life. So that would have been 2001 or so. And that would have been 2001 or so. And that would have been 2001 or so. And that was during your uh master of arts that was during your uh master of arts that was during your uh master of arts program at Weaten. Correct. program at Weaten. Correct. program at Weaten. Correct. >> That's correct. Yeah. So that's when I >> That's correct. Yeah. So that's when I >> That's correct. Yeah. So that's when I had met Yeah, I was I was with a number had met Yeah, I was I was with a number had met Yeah, I was I was with a number of scholars at Weaten College and uh of scholars at Weaten College and uh of scholars at Weaten College and uh your Doug Moos, your Greg Beals, guys your Doug Moos, your Greg Beals, guys your Doug Moos, your Greg Beals, guys like that who were less convinced, less like that who were less convinced, less like that who were less convinced, less than convinced of dispensationalism and than convinced of dispensationalism and than convinced of dispensationalism and they were sort of showing me the ways of they were sort of showing me the ways of they were sort of showing me the ways of really of of biblical theology at that really of of biblical theology at that really of of biblical theology at that point. point. point. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Weaten is >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Weaten is >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, Weaten is where we crossed paths where we crossed paths where we crossed paths >> a little bit later. >> a little bit later. >> a little bit later. >> Yes. Right. After your master of arts, >> Yes. Right. After your master of arts, >> Yes. Right. After your master of arts, you stuck around and pursued a PhD at you stuck around and pursued a PhD at you stuck around and pursued a PhD at Weaten. Weaten. Weaten. >> That's right. So, I was under Greg Beal. >> That's right. So, I was under Greg Beal. >> That's right. So, I was under Greg Beal. Your first year at Weaten was when was Your first year at Weaten was when was Your first year at Weaten was when was that?

that? that? >> Uh, that would have been fall of 2003. I >> Uh, that would have been fall of 2003. I >> Uh, that would have been fall of 2003. I was I was the class ahead of you. So, I was I was the class ahead of you. So, I was I was the class ahead of you. So, I got there one year before you. got there one year before you. got there one year before you. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So, that >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So, that >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So, that was I was the third class at Wheaten was I was the third class at Wheaten was I was the third class at Wheaten College. So, you were the second College. So, you were the second College. So, you were the second doctoral class. And so we started then doctoral class. And so we started then doctoral class. And so we started then overlapping then in the fall of 2004. overlapping then in the fall of 2004. overlapping then in the fall of 2004. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Little did we know that 20 years later >> Little did we know that 20 years later >> Little did we know that 20 years later we would [laughter] be here. we would [laughter] be here. we would [laughter] be here. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Talking about the same things. >> Talking about the same things. >> Talking about the same things. >> Who knew? Who knew? We did know. >> Who knew? Who knew? We did know. >> Who knew? Who knew? We did know. >> We had far more hair. >> We had far more hair. >> We had far more hair. >> We did. And we played a lot more >> We did. And we played a lot more >> We did. And we played a lot more foosball back then. foosball back then. foosball back then. >> We did. We did. And I could eat I could >> We did. We did. And I could eat I could >> We did. We did. And I could eat I could eat eat eat three to four times of what I could eat three to four times of what I could eat three to four times of what I could eat now. I mean, I was eating 12 13,000 now. I mean, I was eating 12 13,000 now. I mean, I was eating 12 13,000 calories a day and it felt good. calories a day and it felt good. calories a day and it felt good. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't do that anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't do that anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't do that anymore. >> You can't do that. That's Yeah. those >> You can't do that. That's Yeah. those >> You can't do that. That's Yeah. those days are gone. days are gone. days are gone. >> Yeah. So that's where that's where we >> Yeah. So that's where that's where we >> Yeah. So that's where that's where we met as uh fellow students at Weaten. And met as uh fellow students at Weaten. And met as uh fellow students at Weaten. And on a in a similar vein, on a in a similar vein, on a in a similar vein, my experience with biblical theology my experience with biblical theology my experience with biblical theology didn't really take root until the PhD didn't really take root until the PhD didn't really take root until the PhD program at Wheaten as I was working uh program at Wheaten as I was working uh program at Wheaten as I was working uh under the supervision of Doug Moo. And under the supervision of Doug Moo. And under the supervision of Doug Moo. And um but also, you know, learning from um but also, you know, learning from um but also, you know, learning from other scholars in the in the Wheaten PhD other scholars in the in the Wheaten PhD other scholars in the in the Wheaten PhD program. And one of the distinctives of program. And one of the distinctives of program. And one of the distinctives of that program is they force you to be uh that program is they force you to be uh that program is they force you to be uh to integrate multiple academic to integrate multiple academic to integrate multiple academic disciplines, right? He can't just come disciplines, right? He can't just come disciplines, right? He can't just come in and go, I want to be a New Testament in and go, I want to be a New Testament in and go, I want to be a New Testament scholar who's just going to do textual scholar who's just going to do textual scholar who's just going to do textual criticism on this like one little criticism on this like one little criticism on this like one little passage in Jude and that's it. That passage in Jude and that's it. That passage in Jude and that's it. That that's they're not interested in that's they're not interested in that's they're not interested in producing people like that. Now, there's

producing people like that. Now, there's producing people like that. Now, there's a place for people like that. a place for people like that. a place for people like that. >> And there are some very interesting >> And there are some very interesting >> And there are some very interesting variants in Jude. variants in Jude. variants in Jude. >> There are there are. But the the focus >> There are there are. But the the focus >> There are there are. But the the focus of that program is trying to get you to of that program is trying to get you to of that program is trying to get you to think more holistically about the Bible, think more holistically about the Bible, think more holistically about the Bible, both Old and New Testament. So even if both Old and New Testament. So even if both Old and New Testament. So even if you're a New Testament guy, you want to you're a New Testament guy, you want to you're a New Testament guy, you want to be paying attention to the Old be paying attention to the Old be paying attention to the Old Testament. And so I also was working in Testament. And so I also was working in Testament. And so I also was working in that same area of how the New Testament that same area of how the New Testament that same area of how the New Testament authors used the Old Testament. And so authors used the Old Testament. And so authors used the Old Testament. And so we were in some seminars together. And we were in some seminars together. And we were in some seminars together. And uh and I know that I benefited as well uh and I know that I benefited as well uh and I know that I benefited as well in addition to being uh under the in addition to being uh under the in addition to being uh under the supervision of of Doug Moo being uh able supervision of of Doug Moo being uh able supervision of of Doug Moo being uh able to consult with Greg Beal who was also a to consult with Greg Beal who was also a to consult with Greg Beal who was also a New Testament scholar there. And uh New Testament scholar there. And uh New Testament scholar there. And uh these two are just giants in the New these two are just giants in the New these two are just giants in the New Testament scholarship world. Even if our Testament scholarship world. Even if our Testament scholarship world. Even if our listeners may not be immediately listeners may not be immediately listeners may not be immediately familiar with those names, they are two familiar with those names, they are two familiar with those names, they are two of the most significant New Testament of the most significant New Testament of the most significant New Testament scholars of their generation. And we scholars of their generation. And we scholars of their generation. And we didn't know this man. I didn't know this man. I didn't know this man. I [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] [sighs and gasps] to go back 20 years ago and to say, to go back 20 years ago and to say, to go back 20 years ago and to say, "Hey, are you guys into biblical "Hey, are you guys into biblical "Hey, are you guys into biblical theology?" I don't know if I would have theology?" I don't know if I would have theology?" I don't know if I would have been like, "I kind of don't know what been like, "I kind of don't know what been like, "I kind of don't know what you're talking about." Like it it was it you're talking about." Like it it was it you're talking about." Like it it was it a thing? Not really. I mean, there were a thing? Not really. I mean, there were a thing? Not really. I mean, there were some biblical theological books, but some biblical theological books, but some biblical theological books, but it's not what it is today. Nobody there it's not what it is today. Nobody there it's not what it is today. Nobody there wouldn't have been a room for podcasts wouldn't have been a room for podcasts wouldn't have been a room for podcasts on biblical theology then. It really on biblical theology then. It really on biblical theology then. It really >> we didn't really use words or phrases >> we didn't really use words or phrases >> we didn't really use words or phrases like biblical theology then. Does that like biblical theology then. Does that like biblical theology then. Does that does that make sense?

does that make sense? does that make sense? >> Or was just at least not maybe not >> Or was just at least not maybe not >> Or was just at least not maybe not fringe, but like not really kind of fringe, but like not really kind of fringe, but like not really kind of mainstream. It mainstream. It mainstream. It >> was not mainstream common evangelicalism >> was not mainstream common evangelicalism >> was not mainstream common evangelicalism to talk about biblical theology. No, it to talk about biblical theology. No, it to talk about biblical theology. No, it that we were using words more like story that we were using words more like story that we were using words more like story and meta narrative. Those were ti, you and meta narrative. Those were ti, you and meta narrative. Those were ti, you know, those were kind of leading the way know, those were kind of leading the way know, those were kind of leading the way at that point. So, yeah, we've come a at that point. So, yeah, we've come a at that point. So, yeah, we've come a long way both personally and I think as long way both personally and I think as long way both personally and I think as as the church and the academy, we've as the church and the academy, we've as the church and the academy, we've really developed a lot in the last 20 really developed a lot in the last 20 really developed a lot in the last 20 years. years. years. >> Yeah, absolutely. And we uh I like to >> Yeah, absolutely. And we uh I like to >> Yeah, absolutely. And we uh I like to tell my students, we are living in the tell my students, we are living in the tell my students, we are living in the golden age of biblical theology because golden age of biblical theology because golden age of biblical theology because there's so many resources being produced there's so many resources being produced there's so many resources being produced and so much work being done in biblical and so much work being done in biblical and so much work being done in biblical theology. theology. theology. There's just a steady flow, a a rushing There's just a steady flow, a a rushing There's just a steady flow, a a rushing river of resources that keep coming out river of resources that keep coming out river of resources that keep coming out in terms of biblical theology that I in terms of biblical theology that I in terms of biblical theology that I think would have been unthinkable 20 think would have been unthinkable 20 think would have been unthinkable 20 years ago. Like if you'd have asked us years ago. Like if you'd have asked us years ago. Like if you'd have asked us 20 years ago, 20 years ago, 20 years ago, >> would there be this amount of resources >> would there be this amount of resources >> would there be this amount of resources that are being regularly published in that are being regularly published in that are being regularly published in Biblical Theology? Neither of us would Biblical Theology? Neither of us would Biblical Theology? Neither of us would have said, "Oh, yeah, for sure." That's have said, "Oh, yeah, for sure." That's have said, "Oh, yeah, for sure." That's >> No, it was much more and I've and I've >> No, it was much more and I've and I've >> No, it was much more and I've and I've thought about this. It's it was much thought about this. It's it was much thought about this. It's it was much more into everything was a commentary or more into everything was a commentary or more into everything was a commentary or a devotional.

a devotional. a devotional. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um and not much in between those. Maybe >> Um and not much in between those. Maybe >> Um and not much in between those. Maybe some reference type works, uh maybe some some reference type works, uh maybe some some reference type works, uh maybe some dictionaries, lexicons. Everything was dictionaries, lexicons. Everything was dictionaries, lexicons. Everything was 20 years ago. All the publishers were 20 years ago. All the publishers were 20 years ago. All the publishers were doing lexicons and dictionaries and they doing lexicons and dictionaries and they doing lexicons and dictionaries and they were all into these reference pieces. were all into these reference pieces. were all into these reference pieces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Whether it's Greek or Hebrew or whatever >> Whether it's Greek or Hebrew or whatever >> Whether it's Greek or Hebrew or whatever and they were also into devotionals and and they were also into devotionals and and they were also into devotionals and that and then on the other hand you then that and then on the other hand you then that and then on the other hand you then had the commentaries and it was really had the commentaries and it was really had the commentaries and it was really those were the those were the large those were the those were the large those were the those were the large domains. But what's happened the last 20 domains. But what's happened the last 20 domains. But what's happened the last 20 years is there's just this gigantic years is there's just this gigantic years is there's just this gigantic slice of the pie now of biblical slice of the pie now of biblical slice of the pie now of biblical theological themes and uh stories and theological themes and uh stories and theological themes and uh stories and how all the pieces fit together, those how all the pieces fit together, those how all the pieces fit together, those sorts of things. Yes. And you yourself sorts of things. Yes. And you yourself sorts of things. Yes. And you yourself are actively publishing and playing a are actively publishing and playing a are actively publishing and playing a role in that. Um you are the editor of role in that. Um you are the editor of role in that. Um you are the editor of the of of two distinct biblical theology the of of two distinct biblical theology the of of two distinct biblical theology series. You are the editor of the series. You are the editor of the series. You are the editor of the Essential Studies in Biblical Theology, Essential Studies in Biblical Theology, Essential Studies in Biblical Theology, >> but I only have one volume left. I'm I >> but I only have one volume left. I'm I >> but I only have one volume left. I'm I once that 10th volume comes out, I'm once that 10th volume comes out, I'm once that 10th volume comes out, I'm out. Michael Morales has has taken over out. Michael Morales has has taken over out. Michael Morales has has taken over that series because it's just it's just that series because it's just it's just that series because it's just it's just too much for me to do. But to do both of too much for me to do. But to do both of too much for me to do. But to do both of these, but I'm one volume out. I'm one these, but I'm one volume out. I'm one these, but I'm one volume out. I'm one I've done nine and I've got to have that I've done nine and I've got to have that I've done nine and I've got to have that tenth there. It's It's tenth there. It's It's tenth there. It's It's >> Yeah, there aren't The number nine >> Yeah, there aren't The number nine >> Yeah, there aren't The number nine >> in the Bible tends to be not good.

>> in the Bible tends to be not good. >> in the Bible tends to be not good. [laughter] 10 is good. The number 10 is [laughter] 10 is good. The number 10 is [laughter] 10 is good. The number 10 is good. The number seven is great. Three good. The number seven is great. Three good. The number seven is great. Three is great. Yes, four is not bad. But but is great. Yes, four is not bad. But but is great. Yes, four is not bad. But but nine is no good. I I can't think of what nine is no good. I I can't think of what nine is no good. I I can't think of what of one time when the number nine is used of one time when the number nine is used of one time when the number nine is used positively in scripture. So, uh I've got positively in scripture. So, uh I've got positively in scripture. So, uh I've got nine and I've got to get to 10. nine and I've got to get to 10. nine and I've got to get to 10. >> There you go. [laughter] And then you >> There you go. [laughter] And then you >> There you go. [laughter] And then you have more recently uh become one of two have more recently uh become one of two have more recently uh become one of two editors of the series New Studies in editors of the series New Studies in editors of the series New Studies in Biblical Theology. Biblical Theology. Biblical Theology. >> That's right. And uh you along with uh >> That's right. And uh you along with uh >> That's right. And uh you along with uh Don Carson serve as the series editors Don Carson serve as the series editors Don Carson serve as the series editors for that. for that. for that. >> Yeah, that's a very interesting story. >> Yeah, that's a very interesting story. >> Yeah, that's a very interesting story. So in the early 90s, IVP UK approached So in the early 90s, IVP UK approached So in the early 90s, IVP UK approached Don. This was not Don's idea. I always Don. This was not Don's idea. I always Don. This was not Don's idea. I always thought that it was his idea until he thought that it was his idea until he thought that it was his idea until he shared with me a couple years ago that shared with me a couple years ago that shared with me a couple years ago that it wasn't. So apparently in the early it wasn't. So apparently in the early it wasn't. So apparently in the early 90s a publisher approached John, I 90s a publisher approached John, I 90s a publisher approached John, I believe it was IVP UK at the time and believe it was IVP UK at the time and believe it was IVP UK at the time and said, "Hey, we would like to start a said, "Hey, we would like to start a said, "Hey, we would like to start a biblical theology series." And again, biblical theology series." And again, biblical theology series." And again, think about the time here. Like nobody think about the time here. Like nobody think about the time here. Like nobody was really doing this.

was really doing this. was really doing this. >> Nobody. >> Nobody. >> Nobody. >> And he thought it was a good idea. And >> And he thought it was a good idea. And >> And he thought it was a good idea. And so he lined up uh these scholars. And I so he lined up uh these scholars. And I so he lined up uh these scholars. And I really think that God providentially really think that God providentially really think that God providentially made the first five or first 10 volumes made the first five or first 10 volumes made the first five or first 10 volumes really really good. I mean that's when really really good. I mean that's when really really good. I mean that's when Steve Dempster's volume was there. Um Steve Dempster's volume was there. Um Steve Dempster's volume was there. Um Ray Orland was an early one and then Ray Orland was an early one and then Ray Orland was an early one and then Greg Beal was an early like so they Greg Beal was an early like so they Greg Beal was an early like so they really it started off very very well. really it started off very very well. really it started off very very well. What happens is in these series is that What happens is in these series is that What happens is in these series is that the first couple volumes set the the first couple volumes set the the first couple volumes set the trajectory for what is to come. And trajectory for what is to come. And trajectory for what is to come. And providentially, God used these men to providentially, God used these men to providentially, God used these men to write some really really uh significant write some really really uh significant write some really really uh significant pieces at the time. And so the first pieces at the time. And so the first pieces at the time. And so the first volume came out in 1995 and next year in volume came out in 1995 and next year in volume came out in 1995 and next year in 2025, we're going to have a big kind of 2025, we're going to have a big kind of 2025, we're going to have a big kind of 30th anniversary 30th anniversary 30th anniversary for the series. It is now being for the series. It is now being for the series. It is now being distributed here in the states through distributed here in the states through distributed here in the states through Brahman and Hullman which is a recent Brahman and Hullman which is a recent Brahman and Hullman which is a recent announcement just in the last month. Uh announcement just in the last month. Uh announcement just in the last month. Uh the contracts were signed and it will be the contracts were signed and it will be the contracts were signed and it will be distributed through them and that's distributed through them and that's distributed through them and that's that's a significant uh transition that's a significant uh transition that's a significant uh transition because they I believe that they will do because they I believe that they will do because they I believe that they will do a great job of marketing it well of a great job of marketing it well of a great job of marketing it well of integrating it in with their sales team integrating it in with their sales team integrating it in with their sales team and putting it in the hands. We're and putting it in the hands. We're and putting it in the hands. We're changing the it's going to go into a changing the it's going to go into a changing the it's going to go into a hardback. The covers are going to look hardback. The covers are going to look hardback. The covers are going to look different. And my goal I I I told them different. And my goal I I I told them different. And my goal I I I told them and I told IVP UK that my goal is right and I told IVP UK that my goal is right and I told IVP UK that my goal is right now there are 62 volumes which is a lot.

now there are 62 volumes which is a lot. now there are 62 volumes which is a lot. I want to double that. I think we can I want to double that. I think we can I want to double that. I think we can double that. It's roughly two volumes a double that. It's roughly two volumes a double that. It's roughly two volumes a year. And I think we're going to have year. And I think we're going to have year. And I think we're going to have two or three come out next year. And so two or three come out next year. And so two or three come out next year. And so we've got to there's a lot to read. we've got to there's a lot to read. we've got to there's a lot to read. There's a lot to produce to have two There's a lot to produce to have two There's a lot to produce to have two volumes a year. But I think that we can volumes a year. But I think that we can volumes a year. But I think that we can do it. And by God's grace, I'd love to do it. And by God's grace, I'd love to do it. And by God's grace, I'd love to double that. double that. double that. >> Yeah. And you're not only an editor, >> Yeah. And you're not only an editor, >> Yeah. And you're not only an editor, you've also actually written some you've also actually written some you've also actually written some [laughter] biblical theology. Yeah. Uh I [laughter] biblical theology. Yeah. Uh I [laughter] biblical theology. Yeah. Uh I would highlight your book uh from the would highlight your book uh from the would highlight your book uh from the manger to the throne, a uh theology of manger to the throne, a uh theology of manger to the throne, a uh theology of Luke that's in the New Testament Luke that's in the New Testament Luke that's in the New Testament theology series that Crossway has theology series that Crossway has theology series that Crossway has produced. And uh just a a great produced. And uh just a a great produced. And uh just a a great treatment of a number of key themes and treatment of a number of key themes and treatment of a number of key themes and threads that run throughout Luke. very threads that run throughout Luke. very threads that run throughout Luke. very accessible for a person who's maybe accessible for a person who's maybe accessible for a person who's maybe never read any biblical theology before. never read any biblical theology before. never read any biblical theology before. They can pick that up and really see They can pick that up and really see They can pick that up and really see elements of Luke kind of come alive for elements of Luke kind of come alive for elements of Luke kind of come alive for them. Yeah, I enjoyed that volume. I had them. Yeah, I enjoyed that volume. I had them. Yeah, I enjoyed that volume. I had just finished a hand my handbook on the just finished a hand my handbook on the just finished a hand my handbook on the gospels that's published by Baker. I I gospels that's published by Baker. I I gospels that's published by Baker. I I mean I that was still at the press and mean I that was still at the press and mean I that was still at the press and Tom Tom Shriner had reached out to me Tom Tom Shriner had reached out to me Tom Tom Shriner had reached out to me and said, "Hey, would you be interested and said, "Hey, would you be interested and said, "Hey, would you be interested in doing Luke?" And I had just finished in doing Luke?" And I had just finished in doing Luke?" And I had just finished the handbook. I'm like, "You know what?

the handbook. I'm like, "You know what? the handbook. I'm like, "You know what? I'm already it's already in my mind. I I'm already it's already in my mind. I I'm already it's already in my mind. I think I can write this pretty quickly. think I can write this pretty quickly. think I can write this pretty quickly. And I had a I had a lot of fun writing And I had a I had a lot of fun writing And I had a I had a lot of fun writing that volume. It was it was it was that volume. It was it was it was that volume. It was it was it was difficult. Luke is a difficult book. I difficult. Luke is a difficult book. I difficult. Luke is a difficult book. I mean, a lot of people only know chapter mean, a lot of people only know chapter mean, a lot of people only know chapter 2, [laughter] 2, [laughter] 2, [laughter] >> and it's Christmas time. That's right. >> and it's Christmas time. That's right. >> and it's Christmas time. That's right. >> And I I love me some chapter 2, >> And I I love me some chapter 2, >> And I I love me some chapter 2, >> but the rest of it is is really good as >> but the rest of it is is really good as >> but the rest of it is is really good as well, but it's particularly difficult. I well, but it's particularly difficult. I well, but it's particularly difficult. I mean, I I think you're writing a mean, I I think you're writing a mean, I I think you're writing a commentary on it, and there are just commentary on it, and there are just commentary on it, and there are just >> it's very tight. It's it's it's it's >> it's very tight. It's it's it's it's >> it's very tight. It's it's it's it's comp it's complicated comp it's complicated comp it's complicated >> and it's long >> and it's long >> and it's long >> and it's [laughter] long. I believe it's >> and it's [laughter] long. I believe it's >> and it's [laughter] long. I believe it's the longest book in the New Testament. the longest book in the New Testament. the longest book in the New Testament. It's 30 some thousand words. It's 30 some thousand words. It's 30 some thousand words. >> It's insane. >> It's insane. >> It's insane. >> Luke Acts, I mean, if you add Acts to >> Luke Acts, I mean, if you add Acts to >> Luke Acts, I mean, if you add Acts to it, which is its second volume, um it, which is its second volume, um it, which is its second volume, um >> Wow. Luke the Evangelist was rather >> Wow. Luke the Evangelist was rather >> Wow. Luke the Evangelist was rather lequacious. He he wrote a lot. lequacious. He he wrote a lot. lequacious. He he wrote a lot. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And uh it is complicated, but it's a lot >> And uh it is complicated, but it's a lot >> And uh it is complicated, but it's a lot of fun and I really enjoyed that book. of fun and I really enjoyed that book. of fun and I really enjoyed that book. >> Yeah. Good. Good. Now, what have you >> Yeah. Good. Good. Now, what have you >> Yeah. Good. Good. Now, what have you Okay, so you have done a couple things Okay, so you have done a couple things Okay, so you have done a couple things as well.

as well. as well. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um, you wrote this volume, Rebels and >> Um, you wrote this volume, Rebels and >> Um, you wrote this volume, Rebels and Exiles for the ESBT that we mentioned. Exiles for the ESBT that we mentioned. Exiles for the ESBT that we mentioned. >> Yeah. So, it's a biblical theology of >> Yeah. So, it's a biblical theology of >> Yeah. So, it's a biblical theology of sin and restoration. How there's this sin and restoration. How there's this sin and restoration. How there's this pattern that emerges in the Bible where pattern that emerges in the Bible where pattern that emerges in the Bible where human beings rebel against God and as a human beings rebel against God and as a human beings rebel against God and as a result, they are exiled away from God's result, they are exiled away from God's result, they are exiled away from God's presence. And that pattern starts in presence. And that pattern starts in presence. And that pattern starts in Genesis and repeats itself all Genesis and repeats itself all Genesis and repeats itself all throughout scripture. throughout scripture. throughout scripture. And central to the gospel is this idea And central to the gospel is this idea And central to the gospel is this idea that Jesus is the one who comes along that Jesus is the one who comes along that Jesus is the one who comes along who takes upon himself our exile away who takes upon himself our exile away who takes upon himself our exile away from God by taking upon himself our sin from God by taking upon himself our sin from God by taking upon himself our sin and then he is resurrected. He is and then he is resurrected. He is and then he is resurrected. He is restored to God's presence in that sense restored to God's presence in that sense restored to God's presence in that sense and we share in that restoration and and we share in that restoration and and we share in that restoration and that the new heavens and the new earth that the new heavens and the new earth that the new heavens and the new earth is the final consummation of that where is the final consummation of that where is the final consummation of that where human beings are in the presence of God, human beings are in the presence of God, human beings are in the presence of God, redeemed humanity in God's presence in a redeemed humanity in God's presence in a redeemed humanity in God's presence in a renewed creation where they see him face renewed creation where they see him face renewed creation where they see him face to face and dwell with him forever. So to face and dwell with him forever. So to face and dwell with him forever. So it's tracing that thread all throughout it's tracing that thread all throughout it's tracing that thread all throughout scripture. And what's important, I think scripture. And what's important, I think scripture. And what's important, I think a lot of people miss this, is that a lot of people miss this, is that a lot of people miss this, is that exile and restoration, those are exile and restoration, those are exile and restoration, those are corporate ideas. They really, they're corporate ideas. They really, they're corporate ideas. They really, they're used most of the time corporately, but used most of the time corporately, but used most of the time corporately, but they are symbolic of a very vertical they are symbolic of a very vertical they are symbolic of a very vertical concern. Sin and estrangement from God.

concern. Sin and estrangement from God. concern. Sin and estrangement from God. It's not when we think of sin and or It's not when we think of sin and or It's not when we think of sin and or when we think of exile and restoration, when we think of exile and restoration, when we think of exile and restoration, we think more in terms of horizontal we think more in terms of horizontal we think more in terms of horizontal notions, corporate notions of just notions, corporate notions of just notions, corporate notions of just Israel. Israel. Israel. >> But Israel is a corporate atom. And so >> But Israel is a corporate atom. And so >> But Israel is a corporate atom. And so this notion of of exile and restoration, this notion of of exile and restoration, this notion of of exile and restoration, they are very much wrapped up into very they are very much wrapped up into very they are very much wrapped up into very vertical concerns of life and death. So vertical concerns of life and death. So vertical concerns of life and death. So life is promised land, death is in life is promised land, death is in life is promised land, death is in exile. And those are they're very um exile. And those are they're very um exile. And those are they're very um very vertical in nature. That's all I'm very vertical in nature. That's all I'm very vertical in nature. That's all I'm trying to say. Very very personal. Um trying to say. Very very personal. Um trying to say. Very very personal. Um it's not simply a corporate notion. it's not simply a corporate notion. it's not simply a corporate notion. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Okay. Okay. So, you've got that volume >> Okay. Okay. So, you've got that volume >> Okay. Okay. So, you've got that volume and then you also have speaking of the and then you also have speaking of the and then you also have speaking of the series with Don Carson, the NSBT. You series with Don Carson, the NSBT. You series with Don Carson, the NSBT. You contributed there as well on a book on contributed there as well on a book on contributed there as well on a book on the servant of the Lord and his servant the servant of the Lord and his servant the servant of the Lord and his servant people. What is what is going on there? people. What is what is going on there? people. What is what is going on there? Yeah. So again, it's tracing this theme, Yeah. So again, it's tracing this theme, Yeah. So again, it's tracing this theme, this this pattern of how God this this pattern of how God this this pattern of how God creates or raises up an individual creates or raises up an individual creates or raises up an individual servant, an individual person who has servant, an individual person who has servant, an individual person who has royal, prophetic, and priestly roles and royal, prophetic, and priestly roles and royal, prophetic, and priestly roles and responsibilities responsibilities responsibilities with the goal of producing a servant with the goal of producing a servant with the goal of producing a servant people. And so this pattern starts in people. And so this pattern starts in people. And so this pattern starts in Genesis in the garden where God creates Genesis in the garden where God creates Genesis in the garden where God creates Adam as a servant with royal and Adam as a servant with royal and Adam as a servant with royal and priestly and prophetic responsibilities priestly and prophetic responsibilities priestly and prophetic responsibilities and roles. And the goal is to create a and roles. And the goal is to create a and roles. And the goal is to create a servant people. He's supposed to be servant people. He's supposed to be servant people. He's supposed to be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth with people like him. And that pattern

with people like him. And that pattern with people like him. And that pattern of course gets disrupted by the fall in of course gets disrupted by the fall in of course gets disrupted by the fall in in in Genesis 3. But God continues to in in Genesis 3. But God continues to in in Genesis 3. But God continues to raise up these individual servants like raise up these individual servants like raise up these individual servants like Moses and Joshua. Moses and Joshua. Moses and Joshua. >> And Moses is actually called a servant, >> And Moses is actually called a servant, >> And Moses is actually called a servant, I believe. Yeah, I believe. Yeah, I believe. Yeah, >> Moses is the first well Abraham is >> Moses is the first well Abraham is >> Moses is the first well Abraham is actually the first one who's explicitly actually the first one who's explicitly actually the first one who's explicitly called uh where God calls him my called uh where God calls him my called uh where God calls him my servant. servant. servant. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> But the title servant of the Lord is >> But the title servant of the Lord is >> But the title servant of the Lord is first the first full expression of that first the first full expression of that first the first full expression of that title is applied to Moses. title is applied to Moses. title is applied to Moses. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then that gets repeated. It gets >> And then that gets repeated. It gets >> And then that gets repeated. It gets connected with Joshua, gets connected connected with Joshua, gets connected connected with Joshua, gets connected with David. And then of course I think with David. And then of course I think with David. And then of course I think what most people think of is the what most people think of is the what most people think of is the suffering servant in Isaiah 53. But even suffering servant in Isaiah 53. But even suffering servant in Isaiah 53. But even that there's a lot more in Isaiah about that there's a lot more in Isaiah about that there's a lot more in Isaiah about the servant of the Lord than just Isaiah the servant of the Lord than just Isaiah the servant of the Lord than just Isaiah 53. 53. 53. >> Isaiah the only Old Testament book to >> Isaiah the only Old Testament book to >> Isaiah the only Old Testament book to apply servant to Israel apply servant to Israel apply servant to Israel >> in that particular way. Yes. But there >> in that particular way. Yes. But there >> in that particular way. Yes. But there are other there are other texts that are other there are other texts that are other there are other texts that will apply that that label too. But I will apply that that label too. But I will apply that that label too. But I think there's a distinctive way that think there's a distinctive way that think there's a distinctive way that Isaiah is doing it.

Isaiah is doing it. Isaiah is doing it. >> Right. And then of course that >> Right. And then of course that >> Right. And then of course that culminates in Jesus as the ultimate culminates in Jesus as the ultimate culminates in Jesus as the ultimate servant of the Lord who through his servant of the Lord who through his servant of the Lord who through his life, death, resurrection ends up life, death, resurrection ends up life, death, resurrection ends up creating a servant people uh the church. creating a servant people uh the church. creating a servant people uh the church. And so that pattern continues and then And so that pattern continues and then And so that pattern continues and then the consummation of that is in a new the consummation of that is in a new the consummation of that is in a new creation where interestingly enough when creation where interestingly enough when creation where interestingly enough when you look at Revelation 22 and it talks you look at Revelation 22 and it talks you look at Revelation 22 and it talks about redeemed humanity, it stresses about redeemed humanity, it stresses about redeemed humanity, it stresses that they will serve him in his presence that they will serve him in his presence that they will serve him in his presence forever and uh fulfilling what God forever and uh fulfilling what God forever and uh fulfilling what God commissioned in um in Genesis. commissioned in um in Genesis. commissioned in um in Genesis. >> And that's and that's priestly language >> And that's and that's priestly language >> And that's and that's priestly language there. It is of service. there. It is of service. there. It is of service. >> Yeah. So yeah, those are that's a couple >> Yeah. So yeah, those are that's a couple >> Yeah. So yeah, those are that's a couple things I think we need to get to. So things I think we need to get to. So things I think we need to get to. So what is this biblical theology thing, what is this biblical theology thing, what is this biblical theology thing, right? So we've got listeners who are right? So we've got listeners who are right? So we've got listeners who are like, "Wait, wait a minute. Wait a like, "Wait, wait a minute. Wait a like, "Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Okay, fine. Okay, we get it. minute. Okay, fine. Okay, we get it. minute. Okay, fine. Okay, we get it. You're you're qualified to talk about You're you're qualified to talk about You're you're qualified to talk about it." Ya, yeah, yada yada yada, but like it." Ya, yeah, yada yada yada, but like it." Ya, yeah, yada yada yada, but like what is this thing we call biblical what is this thing we call biblical what is this thing we call biblical theology? So where would you start in theology? So where would you start in theology? So where would you start in helping someone to understand what we helping someone to understand what we helping someone to understand what we mean by biblical theology? So biblical mean by biblical theology? So biblical mean by biblical theology? So biblical theology theology theology it's just a very broad and general way it's just a very broad and general way it's just a very broad and general way of expressing the idea that the Bible is of expressing the idea that the Bible is of expressing the idea that the Bible is hangs together in a story as a story.

hangs together in a story as a story. hangs together in a story as a story. Typically we say that the story is Typically we say that the story is Typically we say that the story is creation fall redemption new creation creation fall redemption new creation creation fall redemption new creation and that story gets repeated. So every and that story gets repeated. So every and that story gets repeated. So every book of the Bible is in some way book of the Bible is in some way book of the Bible is in some way connected to creation fall redemption connected to creation fall redemption connected to creation fall redemption new creation. So biblical theology is new creation. So biblical theology is new creation. So biblical theology is just a way of studying how the Bible just a way of studying how the Bible just a way of studying how the Bible presents that story. We discover unity. presents that story. We discover unity. presents that story. We discover unity. We can isolate We can isolate We can isolate uh different themes that go across the uh different themes that go across the uh different themes that go across the testaments. We can do biblical theology testaments. We can do biblical theology testaments. We can do biblical theology like that. We can also do biblical like that. We can also do biblical like that. We can also do biblical theology and see how one theme is theology and see how one theme is theology and see how one theme is connected to other themes. So most of connected to other themes. So most of connected to other themes. So most of the time these themes are wrapped up the time these themes are wrapped up the time these themes are wrapped up together with one another. Can you give together with one another. Can you give together with one another. Can you give an example just of how maybe there's a an example just of how maybe there's a an example just of how maybe there's a couple themes that are regularly couple themes that are regularly couple themes that are regularly interwoven? Like they're they're wrapped interwoven? Like they're they're wrapped interwoven? Like they're they're wrapped up with each other regularly. Like when up with each other regularly. Like when up with each other regularly. Like when you see this theme, you're almost always you see this theme, you're almost always you see this theme, you're almost always going to see this other theme nearby. Uh going to see this other theme nearby. Uh going to see this other theme nearby. Uh king priest, those two, those are king priest, those two, those are king priest, those two, those are distinct themes, but they're wrapped up distinct themes, but they're wrapped up distinct themes, but they're wrapped up together at significant locations, together at significant locations, together at significant locations, especially in the garden. Uh even even especially in the garden. Uh even even especially in the garden. Uh even even Abraham, Abraham, Abraham, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> he does he does both on occasion. Very >> he does he does both on occasion. Very >> he does he does both on occasion. Very interesting there. He'll offer up interesting there. He'll offer up interesting there. He'll offer up sacrifices and yet he's he's also a king sacrifices and yet he's he's also a king sacrifices and yet he's he's also a king and of of of sorts. And then David and of of of sorts. And then David and of of of sorts. And then David >> um Solomon does some priestly stuff as >> um Solomon does some priestly stuff as >> um Solomon does some priestly stuff as well if you think about it.

well if you think about it. well if you think about it. >> He does. >> He does. >> He does. >> And then ultimately this is paving the >> And then ultimately this is paving the >> And then ultimately this is paving the way for Jesus as the ultimate priest way for Jesus as the ultimate priest way for Jesus as the ultimate priest king. uh who is and in fact that's one king. uh who is and in fact that's one king. uh who is and in fact that's one of the the last 10 or 20 years of of the the last 10 or 20 years of of the the last 10 or 20 years of scholarship has really started to scholarship has really started to scholarship has really started to bring out the priestly aspects of Jesus bring out the priestly aspects of Jesus bring out the priestly aspects of Jesus in the gospels. in the gospels. in the gospels. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was for a 100 or so years it was all >> It was for a 100 or so years it was all >> It was for a 100 or so years it was all dominated by messianic type royal dominated by messianic type royal dominated by messianic type royal language. Now we're starting to see language. Now we're starting to see language. Now we're starting to see another side of of him. So he's both not another side of of him. So he's both not another side of of him. So he's both not just king but also priest. So we can just king but also priest. So we can just king but also priest. So we can trace that all the way out. In fact, trace that all the way out. In fact, trace that all the way out. In fact, even in Paul, Paul applies even in Paul, Paul applies even in Paul, Paul applies kingly and priestly language to the kingly and priestly language to the kingly and priestly language to the church and so does First Peter. And so, church and so does First Peter. And so, church and so does First Peter. And so, you know, we could work this all the way you know, we could work this all the way you know, we could work this all the way out. So, yeah, those are that's a really out. So, yeah, those are that's a really out. So, yeah, those are that's a really good example. Yeah, I think one of the good example. Yeah, I think one of the good example. Yeah, I think one of the most illuminating experiences for me in most illuminating experiences for me in most illuminating experiences for me in reading my Bible was when someone reading my Bible was when someone reading my Bible was when someone suggested to me, read the first three suggested to me, read the first three suggested to me, read the first three chapters of Genesis and then immediately chapters of Genesis and then immediately chapters of Genesis and then immediately go read Revelation 21 and 22 and just go read Revelation 21 and 22 and just go read Revelation 21 and 22 and just look at all of the connections between look at all of the connections between look at all of the connections between those two texts. And what that invites those two texts. And what that invites those two texts. And what that invites you to do is to say, "Wait a minute. If you to do is to say, "Wait a minute. If you to do is to say, "Wait a minute. If the Bible begins this way and it ends the Bible begins this way and it ends the Bible begins this way and it ends that way, then everything in between that way, then everything in between that way, then everything in between must be related." moving the story from must be related." moving the story from must be related." moving the story from what we see in Genesis 1 through3 to its what we see in Genesis 1 through3 to its what we see in Genesis 1 through3 to its full consummation in Revelation 21 and full consummation in Revelation 21 and full consummation in Revelation 21 and 22. And so I think part of the value of 22. And so I think part of the value of 22. And so I think part of the value of biblical theology is it helps people biblical theology is it helps people biblical theology is it helps people read their Bibles more holistically,

read their Bibles more holistically, read their Bibles more holistically, right? I think a lot of people in our right? I think a lot of people in our right? I think a lot of people in our congregations congregations congregations have a very sort of isolated have a very sort of isolated have a very sort of isolated understanding of different individual understanding of different individual understanding of different individual stories or passages within the Bible stories or passages within the Bible stories or passages within the Bible itself. They're like, "Oh man, I really itself. They're like, "Oh man, I really itself. They're like, "Oh man, I really like uh Abraham nearly sacrifices Isaac like uh Abraham nearly sacrifices Isaac like uh Abraham nearly sacrifices Isaac and I'm man, that David and Goliath and I'm man, that David and Goliath and I'm man, that David and Goliath story is great." and they have these story is great." and they have these story is great." and they have these like isolated episodes that they think like isolated episodes that they think like isolated episodes that they think but they but they don't necessarily know but they but they don't necessarily know but they but they don't necessarily know how are those connected like what what how are those connected like what what how are those connected like what what what's the larger story that each of what's the larger story that each of what's the larger story that each of those fall those fall those fall >> yeah it's like a flannel Christianity >> yeah it's like a flannel Christianity >> yeah it's like a flannel Christianity right [laughter] where you have right [laughter] where you have right [laughter] where you have flannelraphs you you know in Sunday flannelraphs you you know in Sunday flannelraphs you you know in Sunday school and you know that one event that school and you know that one event that school and you know that one event that one story but the flannelraphs as great one story but the flannelraphs as great one story but the flannelraphs as great as they are I I'm a big fan as they are I I'm a big fan as they are I I'm a big fan >> I think we should bring them back to be >> I think we should bring them back to be >> I think we should bring them back to be honest honest honest >> I I really like it the problem is that >> I I really like it the problem is that >> I I really like it the problem is that you can't it's hard to connect all those you can't it's hard to connect all those you can't it's hard to connect all those stories because the It's it's hard. stories because the It's it's hard. stories because the It's it's hard. There's only so much space you could fit There's only so much space you could fit There's only so much space you could fit these things on, but that's what these things on, but that's what these things on, but that's what biblical theology does. It's an attempt biblical theology does. It's an attempt biblical theology does. It's an attempt to connect all those flannelraphph to connect all those flannelraphph to connect all those flannelraphph stories together so that they're stories together so that they're stories together so that they're coherent. They're working together. We coherent. They're working together. We coherent. They're working together. We can see this, can see this, can see this, >> right? Yeah. I I like to use the >> right? Yeah. I I like to use the >> right? Yeah. I I like to use the analogy, and this is something that I analogy, and this is something that I analogy, and this is something that I think all of us are familiar with, think all of us are familiar with, think all of us are familiar with, right? Uh of a television series that right? Uh of a television series that right? Uh of a television series that has multiple seasons. So, you know, if has multiple seasons. So, you know, if has multiple seasons. So, you know, if you have a TV series that's got six or you have a TV series that's got six or you have a TV series that's got six or seven seasons, if you've not seen the seven seasons, if you've not seen the seven seasons, if you've not seen the whole series, you might be able to drop whole series, you might be able to drop whole series, you might be able to drop into an individual episode, say in into an individual episode, say in into an individual episode, say in season 3, episode 6, and you might be season 3, episode 6, and you might be season 3, episode 6, and you might be able to understand the basic plot of able to understand the basic plot of able to understand the basic plot of that individual episode, but you're not

that individual episode, but you're not that individual episode, but you're not going to understand how the characters going to understand how the characters going to understand how the characters relate to one another, why that relate to one another, why that relate to one another, why that particular event is maybe really particular event is maybe really particular event is maybe really significant When on its surface it significant When on its surface it significant When on its surface it doesn't really look like it's that big doesn't really look like it's that big doesn't really look like it's that big of a deal, but in the scope of the whole of a deal, but in the scope of the whole of a deal, but in the scope of the whole series of that television show, it's series of that television show, it's series of that television show, it's actually a really big deal. You're actually a really big deal. You're actually a really big deal. You're probably not going to understand why the probably not going to understand why the probably not going to understand why the characters interact with each other in characters interact with each other in characters interact with each other in the way that they do or what they're the way that they do or what they're the way that they do or what they're hoping for or what they're fearful of. hoping for or what they're fearful of. hoping for or what they're fearful of. Those kinds of things often require Those kinds of things often require Those kinds of things often require seeing the whole series to really seeing the whole series to really seeing the whole series to really understand, oh well, that's why that's a understand, oh well, that's why that's a understand, oh well, that's why that's a big deal. And I think that analogy helps big deal. And I think that analogy helps big deal. And I think that analogy helps us think about biblical theology that us think about biblical theology that us think about biblical theology that the Bible is a story the Bible is a story the Bible is a story and that these individual episodes are and that these individual episodes are and that these individual episodes are moving the larger plot towards a goal moving the larger plot towards a goal moving the larger plot towards a goal towards a consummation in a new heavens towards a consummation in a new heavens towards a consummation in a new heavens and a new earth. What is biblical and a new earth. What is biblical and a new earth. What is biblical theology not? Let's let's let's state theology not? Let's let's let's state theology not? Let's let's let's state what it is not. So, it's not uh you what it is not. So, it's not uh you what it is not. So, it's not uh you might hear somebody say, "Well, by might hear somebody say, "Well, by might hear somebody say, "Well, by biblical theology, don't you just mean biblical theology, don't you just mean biblical theology, don't you just mean theology found in the Bible?" Well, not theology found in the Bible?" Well, not theology found in the Bible?" Well, not in the way we're using it. Obviously, in the way we're using it. Obviously, in the way we're using it. Obviously, biblical theology is theology found in biblical theology is theology found in biblical theology is theology found in the Bible, but it's a more specific way the Bible, but it's a more specific way the Bible, but it's a more specific way of of of >> it's more granular. Yes.

>> it's more granular. Yes. >> it's more granular. Yes. >> It's more organic. >> It's more organic. >> It's more organic. >> It is. It is. And so, I think one way to >> It is. It is. And so, I think one way to >> It is. It is. And so, I think one way to to highlight what it is is to contrast to highlight what it is is to contrast to highlight what it is is to contrast it with what is referred to as it with what is referred to as it with what is referred to as systematic theology. And the difference systematic theology. And the difference systematic theology. And the difference is is that systematic theology is an is is that systematic theology is an is is that systematic theology is an attempt to look at the Bible and answer attempt to look at the Bible and answer attempt to look at the Bible and answer the question, what does the Bible teach the question, what does the Bible teach the question, what does the Bible teach about? And then you just kind of fill in about? And then you just kind of fill in about? And then you just kind of fill in the blank. What does it teach about God, the blank. What does it teach about God, the blank. What does it teach about God, humanity, about creation? And then you humanity, about creation? And then you humanity, about creation? And then you look through the Bible and you find look through the Bible and you find look through the Bible and you find relevant texts and you try to organize relevant texts and you try to organize relevant texts and you try to organize them in some sort of logical, coherent, them in some sort of logical, coherent, them in some sort of logical, coherent, analytical package. Okay? And you will analytical package. Okay? And you will analytical package. Okay? And you will often end up using terms and categories often end up using terms and categories often end up using terms and categories that the Bible itself may not use but that the Bible itself may not use but that the Bible itself may not use but can still be helpful for sure. And by can still be helpful for sure. And by can still be helpful for sure. And by contrast, biblical theology says, "Well, contrast, biblical theology says, "Well, contrast, biblical theology says, "Well, actually, let's try to work through the actually, let's try to work through the actually, let's try to work through the biblical text and see what categories biblical text and see what categories biblical text and see what categories and terms and frameworks the Bible and terms and frameworks the Bible and terms and frameworks the Bible itself uses and try to organically trace itself uses and try to organically trace itself uses and try to organically trace that and put it together in the way that that and put it together in the way that that and put it together in the way that the biblical authors put it together.

the biblical authors put it together. the biblical authors put it together. It's in living contact." This is what It's in living contact." This is what It's in living contact." This is what Vos talks about how biblical theology is Vos talks about how biblical theology is Vos talks about how biblical theology is in living contact with the soil of in living contact with the soil of in living contact with the soil of scripture. They're always rooted scripture. They're always rooted scripture. They're always rooted together. And that's what that's what together. And that's what that's what together. And that's what that's what make and that's why I think so many make and that's why I think so many make and that's why I think so many people like biblical theology because it people like biblical theology because it people like biblical theology because it uses words from the Bible. It's very uses words from the Bible. It's very uses words from the Bible. It's very organic, very tied to scripture. Now, organic, very tied to scripture. Now, organic, very tied to scripture. Now, what are some sources that we recommend? what are some sources that we recommend? what are some sources that we recommend? So, we have uh beginner. So, think of So, we have uh beginner. So, think of So, we have uh beginner. So, think of our audience, a beginner, intermediate, our audience, a beginner, intermediate, our audience, a beginner, intermediate, and advanced. What are some sources that and advanced. What are some sources that and advanced. What are some sources that we would recommend? we would recommend? we would recommend? >> Well, in terms of beginner, uh, I'm >> Well, in terms of beginner, uh, I'm >> Well, in terms of beginner, uh, I'm going to go with this really helpful, going to go with this really helpful, going to go with this really helpful, fancy book that was written by none fancy book that was written by none fancy book that was written by none other than Benjamin L. Glad. What's the other than Benjamin L. Glad. What's the other than Benjamin L. Glad. What's the L stand for, by the way? L stand for, by the way? L stand for, by the way? >> Luke. We were talking about Luke. Isn't >> Luke. We were talking about Luke. Isn't >> Luke. We were talking about Luke. Isn't >> I didn't know that. We've known each >> I didn't know that. We've known each >> I didn't know that. We've known each other for 20 years. I didn't know that. other for 20 years. I didn't know that. other for 20 years. I didn't know that. >> Yeah, that's hilarious. Okay, there you >> Yeah, that's hilarious. Okay, there you >> Yeah, that's hilarious. Okay, there you go. So, uh, from Adam and Israel to the go. So, uh, from Adam and Israel to the go. So, uh, from Adam and Israel to the church. So, this is a good starting church. So, this is a good starting church. So, this is a good starting point for um understanding how your point for um understanding how your point for um understanding how your Bible fits together and seeing the Bible fits together and seeing the Bible fits together and seeing the connections between Adam and Israel and connections between Adam and Israel and connections between Adam and Israel and Christ leading to the church. This is a Christ leading to the church. This is a Christ leading to the church. This is a really accessible really accessible really accessible place to start as a, you know, if you're place to start as a, you know, if you're place to start as a, you know, if you're just new to how does the Bible fit just new to how does the Bible fit just new to how does the Bible fit together? I want to better understand together? I want to better understand together? I want to better understand the big story from Genesis to the big story from Genesis to the big story from Genesis to Revelation. This book right here, I Revelation. This book right here, I Revelation. This book right here, I think, will serve people really well in think, will serve people really well in think, will serve people really well in that front. What about uh maybe an that front. What about uh maybe an that front. What about uh maybe an intermediate resource?

intermediate resource? intermediate resource? >> So my intermediate source I recommend >> So my intermediate source I recommend >> So my intermediate source I recommend this new dictionary of biblical theology this new dictionary of biblical theology this new dictionary of biblical theology edited by uh Desmond Alexander, Brian edited by uh Desmond Alexander, Brian edited by uh Desmond Alexander, Brian Rosner, Don Carson, and Graham Rosner, Don Carson, and Graham Rosner, Don Carson, and Graham Gosworthy. This should if if you're Gosworthy. This should if if you're Gosworthy. This should if if you're interested in biblical theology at all, interested in biblical theology at all, interested in biblical theology at all, you need to have this. This would you need to have this. This would you need to have this. This would probably be my number one recommended probably be my number one recommended probably be my number one recommended resource. It's under the intermediate resource. It's under the intermediate resource. It's under the intermediate because it's a big book. Um, it's fair because it's a big book. Um, it's fair because it's a big book. Um, it's fair it's a decent it's decently academic but it's a decent it's decently academic but it's a decent it's decently academic but not overly so. Um, what I like about it not overly so. Um, what I like about it not overly so. Um, what I like about it is that there are lots of topics in is that there are lots of topics in is that there are lots of topics in here. here. here. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> On um man and woman, mountains, nations, >> On um man and woman, mountains, nations, >> On um man and woman, mountains, nations, peace, prayer, prophecy, and then it peace, prayer, prophecy, and then it peace, prayer, prophecy, and then it also has bookby analyses from Genesis to also has bookby analyses from Genesis to also has bookby analyses from Genesis to Revelation. So, if you're in if you're Revelation. So, if you're in if you're Revelation. So, if you're in if you're in First Timothy and you want to know in First Timothy and you want to know in First Timothy and you want to know what are some biblical theological what are some biblical theological what are some biblical theological themes that you can pick out as you're themes that you can pick out as you're themes that you can pick out as you're preaching, turn to First Timothy in this preaching, turn to First Timothy in this preaching, turn to First Timothy in this in this volume and it'll tell you.

in this volume and it'll tell you. in this volume and it'll tell you. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> And then also at the beginning of this >> And then also at the beginning of this >> And then also at the beginning of this volume, there are several essays that volume, there are several essays that volume, there are several essays that are superb. Now, this volume is a little are superb. Now, this volume is a little are superb. Now, this volume is a little dated, Matt. This volume is 30 plus dated, Matt. This volume is 30 plus dated, Matt. This volume is 30 plus years old, and they are working on a years old, and they are working on a years old, and they are working on a second edition. Uh, but it's still second edition. Uh, but it's still second edition. Uh, but it's still really good. I would I would recommend really good. I would I would recommend really good. I would I would recommend that listeners buy this electronically that listeners buy this electronically that listeners buy this electronically accordance or logos just because so you accordance or logos just because so you accordance or logos just because so you can search it does not have a scripture can search it does not have a scripture can search it does not have a scripture index in it but um yeah you can yeah index in it but um yeah you can yeah index in it but um yeah you can yeah it's it's just way better on your it's it's just way better on your it's it's just way better on your computer. Yeah, great resource there for computer. Yeah, great resource there for computer. Yeah, great resource there for sure. Uh and then uh in terms of the sure. Uh and then uh in terms of the sure. Uh and then uh in terms of the advanced advanced advanced uh sort of the what we're calling the uh sort of the what we're calling the uh sort of the what we're calling the the biblical theology junkie or the the biblical theology junkie or the the biblical theology junkie or the biblical theology nerd, biblical theology nerd, biblical theology nerd, >> they want to inject it into their brains >> they want to inject it into their brains >> they want to inject it into their brains like they're all in. liquify it and just like they're all in. liquify it and just like they're all in. liquify it and just shoot it right in. That's right. Um I shoot it right in. That's right. Um I shoot it right in. That's right. Um I think one of the best places to go is think one of the best places to go is think one of the best places to go is this new studies in biblical theology this new studies in biblical theology this new studies in biblical theology series that Don Carson and yourself uh series that Don Carson and yourself uh series that Don Carson and yourself uh are editing now. And this has a wide are editing now. And this has a wide are editing now. And this has a wide range of mostly thematic treatments, but range of mostly thematic treatments, but range of mostly thematic treatments, but you also have uh for example the one of you also have uh for example the one of you also have uh for example the one of the best volumes in this series is the the best volumes in this series is the the best volumes in this series is the one by Michael Morales on Leviticus, one by Michael Morales on Leviticus, one by Michael Morales on Leviticus, which is just about Leviticus, but the which is just about Leviticus, but the which is just about Leviticus, but the biblical theology of how what comes biblical theology of how what comes biblical theology of how what comes before Leviticus informs what's going on before Leviticus informs what's going on before Leviticus informs what's going on in Leviticus and how it points forward.

in Leviticus and how it points forward. in Leviticus and how it points forward. And so this series right here is a And so this series right here is a And so this series right here is a little bit more on the advanced end of little bit more on the advanced end of little bit more on the advanced end of things in terms of there'll be a little things in terms of there'll be a little things in terms of there'll be a little bit more interaction with Greek and bit more interaction with Greek and bit more interaction with Greek and Hebrew and maybe some ancient Hebrew and maybe some ancient Hebrew and maybe some ancient Neareastern backgrounds and but it's not Neareastern backgrounds and but it's not Neareastern backgrounds and but it's not the they're not dissertations. They're the they're not dissertations. They're the they're not dissertations. They're not we we those who hand us dissertation not we we those who hand us dissertation not we we those who hand us dissertation type manuscripts we have them take it type manuscripts we have them take it type manuscripts we have them take it down. We've got them. So part of my job down. We've got them. So part of my job down. We've got them. So part of my job is to make it more accessible. So it's is to make it more accessible. So it's is to make it more accessible. So it's high quality work. It's cutting edge, high quality work. It's cutting edge, high quality work. It's cutting edge, but we're tr still trying to keep it ex but we're tr still trying to keep it ex but we're tr still trying to keep it ex as accessible as we can. as accessible as we can. as accessible as we can. >> That's right. And so, our goal in this >> That's right. And so, our goal in this >> That's right. And so, our goal in this podcast is to help you be able to use podcast is to help you be able to use podcast is to help you be able to use the resources of biblical theology to the resources of biblical theology to the resources of biblical theology to better read your Bible. And so, in the better read your Bible. And so, in the better read your Bible. And so, in the episodes that that will that will come episodes that that will that will come episodes that that will that will come out, we'll do a variety of different out, we'll do a variety of different out, we'll do a variety of different things. So, we will have some episodes things. So, we will have some episodes things. So, we will have some episodes where we'll dive into a take a deep dive where we'll dive into a take a deep dive where we'll dive into a take a deep dive into one passage and we'll just kind of into one passage and we'll just kind of into one passage and we'll just kind of tear it apart and try to show you all tear it apart and try to show you all tear it apart and try to show you all the different biblical theological the different biblical theological the different biblical theological themes and threads and and illusions to themes and threads and and illusions to themes and threads and and illusions to Old Testament scriptures and those sorts Old Testament scriptures and those sorts Old Testament scriptures and those sorts of things. And there'll be other ones of things. And there'll be other ones of things. And there'll be other ones where they'll be more thematic where we where they'll be more thematic where we where they'll be more thematic where we might take a theme and say, let's talk might take a theme and say, let's talk might take a theme and say, let's talk about how the Bible develops this theme about how the Bible develops this theme about how the Bible develops this theme across the canon. We'll have some author across the canon. We'll have some author across the canon. We'll have some author interviews as well down the road where interviews as well down the road where interviews as well down the road where we'll talk with different scholars as we'll talk with different scholars as we'll talk with different scholars as well as uh speakers and teachers who've well as uh speakers and teachers who've well as uh speakers and teachers who've done who are doing some work in biblical done who are doing some work in biblical done who are doing some work in biblical theology and how that uh informs their theology and how that uh informs their theology and how that uh informs their ministry and life and those sorts of ministry and life and those sorts of ministry and life and those sorts of things. But those are the kinds of things. But those are the kinds of things. But those are the kinds of things that uh that I think our things that uh that I think our things that uh that I think our listeners can look forward to. So those

listeners can look forward to. So those listeners can look forward to. So those are some of the things you can expect on are some of the things you can expect on are some of the things you can expect on episodes coming out as part of this episodes coming out as part of this episodes coming out as part of this inaugural season of the Biblical inaugural season of the Biblical inaugural season of the Biblical Theology Briefing. We're grateful that Theology Briefing. We're grateful that Theology Briefing. We're grateful that you've joined us for this initial you've joined us for this initial you've joined us for this initial episode and we look forward to having episode and we look forward to having episode and we look forward to having you again with us on the Biblical you again with us on the Biblical you again with us on the Biblical Theology Briefing podcast.