Ministry to Children and Youth (with Jared Kennedy) [The Everyday Pastor - Ep. 35]

Eeesians convinced me of this because he Eeesians convinced me of this because he talks about them being of one faith and talks about them being of one faith and talks about them being of one faith and and one baptism and one in Christ. And and one baptism and one in Christ. And and one baptism and one in Christ. And then you get to the end of the book and then you get to the end of the book and then you get to the end of the book and he starts addressing individual family he starts addressing individual family he starts addressing individual family members. He says husbands, wives, um and members. He says husbands, wives, um and members. He says husbands, wives, um and then even he says children, obey your then even he says children, obey your then even he says children, obey your parents in the Lord. And so he's aware parents in the Lord. And so he's aware parents in the Lord. And so he's aware in the way that he's teaching that they in the way that he's teaching that they in the way that he's teaching that they have relational responsibilities to one have relational responsibilities to one have relational responsibilities to one another. And yet he's not afraid as a another. And yet he's not afraid as a another. And yet he's not afraid as a pastor to address each one. and to do pastor to address each one. and to do pastor to address each one. and to do disciplehip with each member of the disciplehip with each member of the disciplehip with each member of the family as well. family as well. family as well. [Music] [Music] [Music] >> Welcome friends to the Everyday Pastor, >> Welcome friends to the Everyday Pastor, >> Welcome friends to the Everyday Pastor, a podcast on the nuts and bolts of a podcast on the nuts and bolts of a podcast on the nuts and bolts of ministry from the Gospel Coalition. My ministry from the Gospel Coalition. My ministry from the Gospel Coalition. My name is Matt Smithst and I'm Luke name is Matt Smithst and I'm Luke name is Matt Smithst and I'm Luke Duncan. Duncan. Duncan. >> And today we're joined by our friend >> And today we're joined by our friend >> And today we're joined by our friend Jared Kennedy to talk about ministering Jared Kennedy to talk about ministering Jared Kennedy to talk about ministering to children and youth. This is a topic to children and youth. This is a topic to children and youth. This is a topic that we've heard from a lot of pastors. that we've heard from a lot of pastors. that we've heard from a lot of pastors. they would love to see us address. they would love to see us address. they would love to see us address. Speaking of which, if you uh ever want Speaking of which, if you uh ever want Speaking of which, if you uh ever want to leave feedback on this show or to leave feedback on this show or to leave feedback on this show or suggest a topic for consideration, you suggest a topic for consideration, you suggest a topic for consideration, you can do so at tgc.org/ can do so at tgc.org/ can do so at tgc.org/ everyyday pastor. tgc.org/ everyyday everyyday pastor. tgc.org/ everyyday everyyday pastor. tgc.org/ everyyday pastor. We would really welcome your pastor. We would really welcome your pastor. We would really welcome your feedback and suggestions. Jared Kennedy feedback and suggestions. Jared Kennedy feedback and suggestions. Jared Kennedy serves as managing editor for books and serves as managing editor for books and serves as managing editor for books and curriculum for TGC. He's also the series curriculum for TGC. He's also the series curriculum for TGC. He's also the series editor of a relatively new series of editor of a relatively new series of editor of a relatively new series of short books that TGC is putting out short books that TGC is putting out short books that TGC is putting out called the hard question series. And I called the hard question series. And I called the hard question series. And I actually just yesterday in the mail got actually just yesterday in the mail got actually just yesterday in the mail got the latest two uh where is God in a

the latest two uh where is God in a the latest two uh where is God in a world with so much evil by Colin Hansen world with so much evil by Colin Hansen world with so much evil by Colin Hansen and did the re resurrection really and did the re resurrection really and did the re resurrection really happen by Timothy Paul Jones. Thank you happen by Timothy Paul Jones. Thank you happen by Timothy Paul Jones. Thank you uh very much Jared for your work on that uh very much Jared for your work on that uh very much Jared for your work on that series. He's also the author of books series. He's also the author of books series. He's also the author of books like the Beginners Gospel Story Bible like the Beginners Gospel Story Bible like the Beginners Gospel Story Bible and the story of Martin Luther. He and and the story of Martin Luther. He and and the story of Martin Luther. He and his wife Megan live with their three his wife Megan live with their three his wife Megan live with their three daughters in Louisville, Kentucky. daughters in Louisville, Kentucky. daughters in Louisville, Kentucky. >> I used to live there. That's why I >> I used to live there. That's why I >> I used to live there. That's why I pronounced it correctly. Louisville. pronounced it correctly. Louisville. pronounced it correctly. Louisville. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Where they're part of Sojourn Church >> Where they're part of Sojourn Church >> Where they're part of Sojourn Church Midtown. And Jared served there as a Midtown. And Jared served there as a Midtown. And Jared served there as a children's minister and then as a family children's minister and then as a family children's minister and then as a family pastor for 14 years. Hence why we wanted pastor for 14 years. Hence why we wanted pastor for 14 years. Hence why we wanted him to come and help everyday pastors him to come and help everyday pastors him to come and help everyday pastors think well about the topics of children think well about the topics of children think well about the topics of children and youth. Jared, thank you very much and youth. Jared, thank you very much and youth. Jared, thank you very much for joining us today. for joining us today. for joining us today. It's really a joy to be with you. It's really a joy to be with you. It's really a joy to be with you. >> Let's just start here. What what is the >> Let's just start here. What what is the >> Let's just start here. What what is the role of the church visav the role of role of the church visav the role of role of the church visav the role of parents in discipling children? Yeah, I parents in discipling children? Yeah, I parents in discipling children? Yeah, I think we often think of the think we often think of the think we often think of the responsibilities that are given uh to responsibilities that are given uh to responsibilities that are given uh to the nation of Israel and to the parents the nation of Israel and to the parents the nation of Israel and to the parents within Israel in Deuteronomy uh chapter within Israel in Deuteronomy uh chapter within Israel in Deuteronomy uh chapter 6 to teach your children um as you walk 6 to teach your children um as you walk 6 to teach your children um as you walk alit down together in your homes as you alit down together in your homes as you alit down together in your homes as you walk along the road um as you go to bed walk along the road um as you go to bed walk along the road um as you go to bed at night and as you get up in the at night and as you get up in the at night and as you get up in the morning. Um I often think of those first morning. Um I often think of those first morning. Um I often think of those first two as as meal time and as as drive two as as meal time and as as drive two as as meal time and as as drive time. I often turn to Psalm 78 time. I often turn to Psalm 78 time. I often turn to Psalm 78 as well um which is Asoff's

as well um which is Asoff's as well um which is Asoff's um who is one of David's musicians. He's um who is one of David's musicians. He's um who is one of David's musicians. He's thinking about Deuteronomy 6 and um he's thinking about Deuteronomy 6 and um he's thinking about Deuteronomy 6 and um he's teaching through song the people of the teaching through song the people of the teaching through song the people of the nation about their responsibilities. And nation about their responsibilities. And nation about their responsibilities. And beginning in verse 5, it says, "He beginning in verse 5, it says, "He beginning in verse 5, it says, "He decreed statutes for Jacob and decreed statutes for Jacob and decreed statutes for Jacob and established the law in Israel, which he established the law in Israel, which he established the law in Israel, which he commanded our ancestors or our fathers commanded our ancestors or our fathers commanded our ancestors or our fathers to teach to their children, so the next to teach to their children, so the next to teach to their children, so the next generation would know them, even the generation would know them, even the generation would know them, even the children yet to be born, and they in children yet to be born, and they in children yet to be born, and they in turn would tell their children who come turn would tell their children who come turn would tell their children who come after them." I mean, I I think in um you after them." I mean, I I think in um you after them." I mean, I I think in um you know, in our American society and uh we know, in our American society and uh we know, in our American society and uh we can tend to think of the responsibility can tend to think of the responsibility can tend to think of the responsibility of of the nuclear family, mom and dad's of of the nuclear family, mom and dad's of of the nuclear family, mom and dad's responsibility to teach these truths at responsibility to teach these truths at responsibility to teach these truths at meal time, at at drive time when you go meal time, at at drive time when you go meal time, at at drive time when you go to bed and in the morning. Um but it's to bed and in the morning. Um but it's to bed and in the morning. Um but it's really clear here he established a really clear here he established a really clear here he established a testimony in Jacob. Uh he has appointed testimony in Jacob. Uh he has appointed testimony in Jacob. Uh he has appointed this law in Israel. This is what he a this law in Israel. This is what he a this law in Israel. This is what he a responsibility he gave to the whole comm responsibility he gave to the whole comm responsibility he gave to the whole comm covenant community that he gave to the covenant community that he gave to the covenant community that he gave to the whole uh congregation to pass on to the whole uh congregation to pass on to the whole uh congregation to pass on to the next generation. Um and so it's a shared next generation. Um and so it's a shared next generation. Um and so it's a shared responsibility. It's one that both moms responsibility. It's one that both moms responsibility. It's one that both moms and dads have and that uh we have as and dads have and that uh we have as and dads have and that uh we have as church leaders.

church leaders. church leaders. >> Yeah. One of the promises in our >> Yeah. One of the promises in our >> Yeah. One of the promises in our church's covenant is that we will church's covenant is that we will church's covenant is that we will endeavor as the family of Christ to endeavor as the family of Christ to endeavor as the family of Christ to bring up the children under our care in bring up the children under our care in bring up the children under our care in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. the nurture and admonition of the Lord. the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Um, and of course that is inspired not Um, and of course that is inspired not Um, and of course that is inspired not just by the passage you referenced in just by the passage you referenced in just by the passage you referenced in Deuteronomy 6 as well as Psalm 78, but Deuteronomy 6 as well as Psalm 78, but Deuteronomy 6 as well as Psalm 78, but also a passage like Ephesians 6:4. Um, also a passage like Ephesians 6:4. Um, also a passage like Ephesians 6:4. Um, fathers, do not exasperate your fathers, do not exasperate your fathers, do not exasperate your children, but bring them up in the children, but bring them up in the children, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And nurture and admonition of the Lord. And nurture and admonition of the Lord. And the reason that's a promise in our the reason that's a promise in our the reason that's a promise in our church covenant, not just a promise for church covenant, not just a promise for church covenant, not just a promise for uh parents, is because we understand it uh parents, is because we understand it uh parents, is because we understand it to be the responsibility of the whole to be the responsibility of the whole to be the responsibility of the whole church uh to create a spiritual church uh to create a spiritual church uh to create a spiritual greenhouse in which kids can grow up and greenhouse in which kids can grow up and greenhouse in which kids can grow up and learn the things of God in a way that is learn the things of God in a way that is learn the things of God in a way that is going to hopefully we pray uh serve them going to hopefully we pray uh serve them going to hopefully we pray uh serve them spiritually for the rest of their lives. spiritually for the rest of their lives. spiritually for the rest of their lives. Um, but I do think that, and I know this Um, but I do think that, and I know this Um, but I do think that, and I know this as a pastor, it can be difficult to uh as a pastor, it can be difficult to uh as a pastor, it can be difficult to uh think about uh the reality that think about uh the reality that think about uh the reality that children, they're still under the children, they're still under the children, they're still under the authority of their parents um children authority of their parents um children authority of their parents um children in in the home, which is a a glorious in in the home, which is a a glorious in in the home, which is a a glorious and good thing. There's also the and good thing. There's also the and good thing. There's also the authority of the church. And so as we authority of the church. And so as we authority of the church. And so as we think about uh you know maybe different think about uh you know maybe different think about uh you know maybe different models you you have the the family models you you have the the family models you you have the the family integrated model uh kind of the family integrated model uh kind of the family integrated model uh kind of the family equipping model uh I have to confess I equipping model uh I have to confess I equipping model uh I have to confess I studied these years ago when I was in studied these years ago when I was in studied these years ago when I was in seminary there's probably updated seminary there's probably updated seminary there's probably updated categories but Jared can you just chart categories but Jared can you just chart categories but Jared can you just chart for us the landscape a little bit what

for us the landscape a little bit what for us the landscape a little bit what are some of the most common models of are some of the most common models of are some of the most common models of thinking through parents church when it thinking through parents church when it thinking through parents church when it comes to forming kids and which do you comes to forming kids and which do you comes to forming kids and which do you think uh is wisest. think uh is wisest. think uh is wisest. >> Yeah. I think probably the most common >> Yeah. I think probably the most common >> Yeah. I think probably the most common evangelical model is just a really evangelical model is just a really evangelical model is just a really programmatic model. I've always thought programmatic model. I've always thought programmatic model. I've always thought of it as as like silos. You know, the of it as as like silos. You know, the of it as as like silos. You know, the children's ministry is doing one thing, children's ministry is doing one thing, children's ministry is doing one thing, the the youth ministry is doing one the the youth ministry is doing one the the youth ministry is doing one thing, Sunday worship is do doing thing, Sunday worship is do doing thing, Sunday worship is do doing another thing, your adult disciplehip is another thing, your adult disciplehip is another thing, your adult disciplehip is doing another thing, and there's not any doing another thing, and there's not any doing another thing, and there's not any kind of integrated kind of integrated kind of integrated thought sometimes about how they relate thought sometimes about how they relate thought sometimes about how they relate to one another. I think those who have to one another. I think those who have to one another. I think those who have seen that kind of culture isn't the most seen that kind of culture isn't the most seen that kind of culture isn't the most helpful have proposed different models helpful have proposed different models helpful have proposed different models of how to how to have a more integrated of how to how to have a more integrated of how to how to have a more integrated and comprehensive approach to discipling and comprehensive approach to discipling and comprehensive approach to discipling the next generation. And so um you know the next generation. And so um you know the next generation. And so um you know one is uh what you describe the family one is uh what you describe the family one is uh what you describe the family integrated model which is don't have a integrated model which is don't have a integrated model which is don't have a children's ministry, don't have a youth children's ministry, don't have a youth children's ministry, don't have a youth ministry. whatever disciplehip kind of ministry. whatever disciplehip kind of ministry. whatever disciplehip kind of training you're doing, put all of the training you're doing, put all of the training you're doing, put all of the kids and families together for for that kids and families together for for that kids and families together for for that time. I do think there are times in the time. I do think there are times in the time. I do think there are times in the in this in the life of a church and in in this in the life of a church and in in this in the life of a church and in the life of a global church especially the life of a global church especially the life of a global church especially um where that model um is really um where that model um is really um where that model um is really appropriate. Um so you think of a brand appropriate. Um so you think of a brand appropriate. Um so you think of a brand new church plant like yours, Matt, that new church plant like yours, Matt, that new church plant like yours, Matt, that um may not have, you know, the space for um may not have, you know, the space for um may not have, you know, the space for much more than a nursery. you're going much more than a nursery. you're going much more than a nursery. you're going to be thinking about how do I minister to be thinking about how do I minister to be thinking about how do I minister to these families all together as as a to these families all together as as a to these families all together as as a group. The philosophy that I've adopted

group. The philosophy that I've adopted group. The philosophy that I've adopted is what you call the family equipping is what you call the family equipping is what you call the family equipping model. And and that is to to think about model. And and that is to to think about model. And and that is to to think about how our children's and our youth how our children's and our youth how our children's and our youth ministry um and our adult disciplehip ministry um and our adult disciplehip ministry um and our adult disciplehip ministry work together over the course ministry work together over the course ministry work together over the course of a life san uh as you described it as of a life san uh as you described it as of a life san uh as you described it as a greenhouse earlier to to have a sort a greenhouse earlier to to have a sort a greenhouse earlier to to have a sort of a comprehensive Christian education of a comprehensive Christian education of a comprehensive Christian education model that will see us uh over time model that will see us uh over time model that will see us uh over time raise up kids in in the faith. So, how raise up kids in in the faith. So, how raise up kids in in the faith. So, how did you relate to parents in in you did you relate to parents in in you did you relate to parents in in you know, as you're ministering to youth? know, as you're ministering to youth? know, as you're ministering to youth? How did you relate to parents How did you relate to parents How did you relate to parents >> in a couple of different ways? And I I >> in a couple of different ways? And I I >> in a couple of different ways? And I I think I think there's three ways to think I think there's three ways to think I think there's three ways to equip parents. One would be to train equip parents. One would be to train equip parents. One would be to train them. Uh second to be to involve them. them. Uh second to be to involve them. them. Uh second to be to involve them. And third to be to sometimes I say equip And third to be to sometimes I say equip And third to be to sometimes I say equip but re resource them. And so, um, one, but re resource them. And so, um, one, but re resource them. And so, um, one, you want to teach parents, um, their you want to teach parents, um, their you want to teach parents, um, their responsibility before the Lord, how the responsibility before the Lord, how the responsibility before the Lord, how the gospel affects the way that they raise gospel affects the way that they raise gospel affects the way that they raise their children. Um, second, you want to their children. Um, second, you want to their children. Um, second, you want to involve them in the ministry. And so, involve them in the ministry. And so, involve them in the ministry. And so, you want to invite them to serve in the you want to invite them to serve in the you want to invite them to serve in the children's ministry and in in the youth children's ministry and in in the youth children's ministry and in in the youth ministry and train them up as a part of ministry and train them up as a part of ministry and train them up as a part of the church's ministry to the next the church's ministry to the next the church's ministry to the next generation. So, involve them in it. And generation. So, involve them in it. And generation. So, involve them in it. And then thirdly, I think having having then thirdly, I think having having then thirdly, I think having having really good resources um for their really good resources um for their really good resources um for their family disciplehip that you can resource family disciplehip that you can resource family disciplehip that you can resource them with. You know, sometimes that's them with. You know, sometimes that's them with. You know, sometimes that's events like like summer camp and youth events like like summer camp and youth events like like summer camp and youth ministry. Some with little children ministry. Some with little children ministry. Some with little children that's, you know, storybook bibles and that's, you know, storybook bibles and that's, you know, storybook bibles and and and catechisms and those kind of

and and catechisms and those kind of and and catechisms and those kind of things, those kind of resources that things, those kind of resources that things, those kind of resources that will help them do that. So I I saw those will help them do that. So I I saw those will help them do that. So I I saw those three things training, involving and three things training, involving and three things training, involving and equipping as one of the primary u big equipping as one of the primary u big equipping as one of the primary u big part of my responsibility in relating to part of my responsibility in relating to part of my responsibility in relating to parents. parents. parents. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> That's good. >> Jared, how should pastors view >> Jared, how should pastors view >> Jared, how should pastors view themselves in relation to the children themselves in relation to the children themselves in relation to the children and youth in their church? Are in other and youth in their church? Are in other and youth in their church? Are in other words, are they pastors to the parents words, are they pastors to the parents words, are they pastors to the parents um or to each individual member of the um or to each individual member of the um or to each individual member of the family? Talk about that dynamic. I think family? Talk about that dynamic. I think family? Talk about that dynamic. I think the book of Ephesians has helped me to the book of Ephesians has helped me to the book of Ephesians has helped me to see the answer is really both and um see the answer is really both and um see the answer is really both and um it's it's both you are the pastor of it's it's both you are the pastor of it's it's both you are the pastor of individual kids and you're the pastor of individual kids and you're the pastor of individual kids and you're the pastor of the family of the family unit. And I the family of the family unit. And I the family of the family unit. And I think especially when a child has come think especially when a child has come think especially when a child has come to faith um you you have that pastoral to faith um you you have that pastoral to faith um you you have that pastoral responsibility not just over not just to responsibility not just over not just to responsibility not just over not just to the h heads of the household but to the the h heads of the household but to the the h heads of the household but to the the family as a whole. And so I think the family as a whole. And so I think the family as a whole. And so I think that affects the way you do ministry in that affects the way you do ministry in that affects the way you do ministry in a number of ways. But Ephesians a number of ways. But Ephesians a number of ways. But Ephesians convinced me of this because Paul writes convinced me of this because Paul writes convinced me of this because Paul writes to the saints. He talks about them being to the saints. He talks about them being to the saints. He talks about them being of one faith and and one baptism and one of one faith and and one baptism and one of one faith and and one baptism and one in Christ. And then you get to the end in Christ. And then you get to the end in Christ. And then you get to the end of the book and he starts addressing of the book and he starts addressing of the book and he starts addressing individual family members. He says individual family members. He says individual family members. He says husbands, husbands, husbands, wives, um and then even he says children wives, um and then even he says children wives, um and then even he says children obey your parents in the Lord. And so obey your parents in the Lord. And so obey your parents in the Lord. And so he's aware in the way that he's teaching he's aware in the way that he's teaching he's aware in the way that he's teaching that they have relational that they have relational that they have relational responsibilities to one another. He's responsibilities to one another. He's responsibilities to one another. He's aware that the father still has aware that the father still has aware that the father still has authority over the children and yet he's authority over the children and yet he's authority over the children and yet he's not afraid as a pastor to address each

not afraid as a pastor to address each not afraid as a pastor to address each one and to do disciplehip with each one and to do disciplehip with each one and to do disciplehip with each member of the family as well. So I think member of the family as well. So I think member of the family as well. So I think I think the answer for a pastor is I think the answer for a pastor is I think the answer for a pastor is really both and um that that you are really both and um that that you are really both and um that that you are shephering family units but you're shephering family units but you're shephering family units but you're you're aware of the dynamics of of a you're aware of the dynamics of of a you're aware of the dynamics of of a father's authority over the children and father's authority over the children and father's authority over the children and yet at the same time um you have a yet at the same time um you have a yet at the same time um you have a responsibility to shepherd each responsibility to shepherd each responsibility to shepherd each individual who's part of the church individual who's part of the church individual who's part of the church community as well. community as well. community as well. >> Yeah. And when it comes to children's >> Yeah. And when it comes to children's >> Yeah. And when it comes to children's ministry in particular, we'll talk about ministry in particular, we'll talk about ministry in particular, we'll talk about youth ministry in a moment. Uh, how can youth ministry in a moment. Uh, how can youth ministry in a moment. Uh, how can pastors encourage their members not to pastors encourage their members not to pastors encourage their members not to view serving in children's ministry as view serving in children's ministry as view serving in children's ministry as just kind of a daycare service, uh, but just kind of a daycare service, uh, but just kind of a daycare service, uh, but rather as a massive opportunity to plant rather as a massive opportunity to plant rather as a massive opportunity to plant gospel seeds that we pray will bear gospel seeds that we pray will bear gospel seeds that we pray will bear fruit for decades to come. Not to fruit for decades to come. Not to fruit for decades to come. Not to mention a very practical service to mention a very practical service to mention a very practical service to parents uh, to enable them to be parents uh, to enable them to be parents uh, to enable them to be listening to God's word without listening to God's word without listening to God's word without distraction. Now I want to be clear. We distraction. Now I want to be clear. We distraction. Now I want to be clear. We love having children in the service. So love having children in the service. So love having children in the service. So and there are different philosophies on and there are different philosophies on and there are different philosophies on that. But assuming I mean I think most that. But assuming I mean I think most that. But assuming I mean I think most pastors listening have some kind of pastors listening have some kind of pastors listening have some kind of children's ministry available during children's ministry available during children's ministry available during some part of the worship service. How some part of the worship service. How some part of the worship service. How can we help our members think well about can we help our members think well about can we help our members think well about what's going on there with our kids?

what's going on there with our kids? what's going on there with our kids? Um, you know, when you're a children's Um, you know, when you're a children's Um, you know, when you're a children's pastor, um, probably the your number one pastor, um, probably the your number one pastor, um, probably the your number one job description is recruiting and job description is recruiting and job description is recruiting and training volunteers. And so, you just training volunteers. And so, you just training volunteers. And so, you just spend a ton of time on the phone, uh, spend a ton of time on the phone, uh, spend a ton of time on the phone, uh, getting volunteers to come and then getting volunteers to come and then getting volunteers to come and then setting them up well and then, you know, setting them up well and then, you know, setting them up well and then, you know, on at the end of the week, folks are on at the end of the week, folks are on at the end of the week, folks are sick and they're not able to serve on sick and they're not able to serve on sick and they're not able to serve on Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. >> Suspiciously sick late Saturday night. >> Suspiciously sick late Saturday night. >> Suspiciously sick late Saturday night. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. those kind those kind of things happen those kind those kind of things happen those kind those kind of things happen on the week they're they're designed to on the week they're they're designed to on the week they're they're designed to serve. And um my favorite class to serve. And um my favorite class to serve. And um my favorite class to recruit people to teach for were the two recruit people to teach for were the two recruit people to teach for were the two and three-year-olds class. Um because and three-year-olds class. Um because and three-year-olds class. Um because this amazing thing happens in a two and this amazing thing happens in a two and this amazing thing happens in a two and three-year-old's class. First of all, three-year-old's class. First of all, three-year-old's class. First of all, when a 2-year-old first starts coming to when a 2-year-old first starts coming to when a 2-year-old first starts coming to that class, they might have two or 300 that class, they might have two or 300 that class, they might have two or 300 words in their vocabulary words in their vocabulary words in their vocabulary um at at most. And so they know mom and um at at most. And so they know mom and um at at most. And so they know mom and dad and they know the name whatever they dad and they know the name whatever they dad and they know the name whatever they call their sippy cup and uh the names of call their sippy cup and uh the names of call their sippy cup and uh the names of their siblings and just some basic their siblings and just some basic their siblings and just some basic things. But by the time that child's things. But by the time that child's things. But by the time that child's about ready to turn four and is leaving about ready to turn four and is leaving about ready to turn four and is leaving that class, they have 5,000 words in that class, they have 5,000 words in that class, they have 5,000 words in their vocabulary. And so when you teach their vocabulary. And so when you teach their vocabulary. And so when you teach a two and three-year-old's class, you a two and three-year-old's class, you a two and three-year-old's class, you have this amazing opportunity to teach have this amazing opportunity to teach have this amazing opportunity to teach words like sin and God and gospel and words like sin and God and gospel and words like sin and God and gospel and prayer to a child at that age when it's prayer to a child at that age when it's prayer to a child at that age when it's it's formative when they may be hearing it's formative when they may be hearing it's formative when they may be hearing those words for the very first time or those words for the very first time or those words for the very first time or they may be hearing those words from an

they may be hearing those words from an they may be hearing those words from an adult besides mom and dad for the very adult besides mom and dad for the very adult besides mom and dad for the very first time and you're reinforcing those first time and you're reinforcing those first time and you're reinforcing those those tiny concepts. those tiny concepts. those tiny concepts. in a way when you're rehearsing the in a way when you're rehearsing the in a way when you're rehearsing the little verses, when you're singing the little verses, when you're singing the little verses, when you're singing the little songs, when you're doing the little songs, when you're doing the little songs, when you're doing the little little craft activities, in a way little little craft activities, in a way little little craft activities, in a way that's going to build a biblical that's going to build a biblical that's going to build a biblical foundation for that child's soul really foundation for that child's soul really foundation for that child's soul really for the rest of their life. So, I would for the rest of their life. So, I would for the rest of their life. So, I would I would love inviting people into into I would love inviting people into into I would love inviting people into into that opportunity to say, "Look at who that opportunity to say, "Look at who that opportunity to say, "Look at who these children are. Look at where they these children are. Look at where they these children are. Look at where they are in their growth and development and are in their growth and development and are in their growth and development and look at at how formative this stage is look at at how formative this stage is look at at how formative this stage is um for their faith development for for um for their faith development for for um for their faith development for for the rest of their life and encourage the rest of their life and encourage the rest of their life and encourage people to to come in and be a part of people to to come in and be a part of people to to come in and be a part of that." And I I think it's that same that." And I I think it's that same that." And I I think it's that same vision um for all of the children's vision um for all of the children's vision um for all of the children's ministry to really hold that ministry to really hold that ministry to really hold that responsibility we have um as uh the responsibility we have um as uh the responsibility we have um as uh the covenant people of God to pass on the covenant people of God to pass on the covenant people of God to pass on the faith to the next generation so that faith to the next generation so that faith to the next generation so that they will pass it on to the generation they will pass it on to the generation they will pass it on to the generation that comes after them. Um and and really that comes after them. Um and and really that comes after them. Um and and really that casting that vision um when you're that casting that vision um when you're that casting that vision um when you're recruiting volunteers you really want to recruiting volunteers you really want to recruiting volunteers you really want to recruit to that vision vision as the recruit to that vision vision as the recruit to that vision vision as the first thing. There's a responsibility we first thing. There's a responsibility we first thing. There's a responsibility we have as a church to the next generation have as a church to the next generation have as a church to the next generation that you get to be a part of seeing that that you get to be a part of seeing that that you get to be a part of seeing that mission go forward.

mission go forward. mission go forward. >> How have you seen the culture around you >> How have you seen the culture around you >> How have you seen the culture around you impact what you have to do in ministry impact what you have to do in ministry impact what you have to do in ministry to youth and children and families in to youth and children and families in to youth and children and families in your church. I think often times your church. I think often times your church. I think often times expectations, especially locally, I expectations, especially locally, I expectations, especially locally, I think certainly larger cultural think certainly larger cultural think certainly larger cultural expectations, but especially locally, expectations, but especially locally, expectations, but especially locally, can impact folks that are serving in can impact folks that are serving in can impact folks that are serving in this area because the parents have a this area because the parents have a this area because the parents have a certain set of expectations as to what certain set of expectations as to what certain set of expectations as to what that ministry is going to look like. How that ministry is going to look like. How that ministry is going to look like. How have you handled that, Jared? have you handled that, Jared? have you handled that, Jared? >> Yeah, that's hard. We were talking a >> Yeah, that's hard. We were talking a >> Yeah, that's hard. We were talking a little bit before um we started little bit before um we started little bit before um we started recording about how you're not just recording about how you're not just recording about how you're not just managing the expectations of the parents managing the expectations of the parents managing the expectations of the parents and that are kind of come from that and that are kind of come from that and that are kind of come from that culture, but also from the elders on culture, but also from the elders on culture, but also from the elders on your elder team. Um and also then as you your elder team. Um and also then as you your elder team. Um and also then as you know the kids and you actually know the know the kids and you actually know the know the kids and you actually know the kind of disciplehip they need as well. kind of disciplehip they need as well. kind of disciplehip they need as well. And so if you've got a large church that And so if you've got a large church that And so if you've got a large church that maybe has a a more attractional kind of maybe has a a more attractional kind of maybe has a a more attractional kind of model as instead of a gospel centered model as instead of a gospel centered model as instead of a gospel centered model, there's going to be a lot of model, there's going to be a lot of model, there's going to be a lot of desire. Hey, they have camps for kids.

desire. Hey, they have camps for kids. desire. Hey, they have camps for kids. They have like these kind of to add They have like these kind of to add They have like these kind of to add those things on. Um, and I I don't think those things on. Um, and I I don't think those things on. Um, and I I don't think that I don't think camp is a bad thing. that I don't think camp is a bad thing. that I don't think camp is a bad thing. I'm speaking at one this summer. Like, I'm speaking at one this summer. Like, I'm speaking at one this summer. Like, you know, I think those kinds of things you know, I think those kinds of things you know, I think those kinds of things are are really helpful as disciplehip are are really helpful as disciplehip are are really helpful as disciplehip tools. Um, but we've got to remember our tools. Um, but we've got to remember our tools. Um, but we've got to remember our our first responsibility is to see kids our first responsibility is to see kids our first responsibility is to see kids grow in the word. Um, and and so to keep grow in the word. Um, and and so to keep grow in the word. Um, and and so to keep the word central and what we're doing to the word central and what we're doing to the word central and what we're doing to really know know those kids well enough really know know those kids well enough really know know those kids well enough to know their specific needs. You know, to know their specific needs. You know, to know their specific needs. You know, we can know that um cell phones and um we can know that um cell phones and um we can know that um cell phones and um you know, anxiety and issues of you know, anxiety and issues of you know, anxiety and issues of sexuality are the big issues in the sexuality are the big issues in the sexuality are the big issues in the culture right now. culture right now. culture right now. um I serve in an inner city church and um I serve in an inner city church and um I serve in an inner city church and um you know we've had kids that like are um you know we've had kids that like are um you know we've had kids that like are struggling to find their next meal to struggling to find their next meal to struggling to find their next meal to eat. And so that like if I'm just eat. And so that like if I'm just eat. And so that like if I'm just crafting my teaching and my ministry um crafting my teaching and my ministry um crafting my teaching and my ministry um around those big cultural issues and I'm around those big cultural issues and I'm around those big cultural issues and I'm not actually thinking about the the kids not actually thinking about the the kids not actually thinking about the the kids that the Lord has given me to shepherd.

that the Lord has given me to shepherd. that the Lord has given me to shepherd. Some of those parents are saying those Some of those parents are saying those Some of those parents are saying those things because they're passionate about things because they're passionate about things because they're passionate about ministry to their kids. Some of them are ministry to their kids. Some of them are ministry to their kids. Some of them are consumers and it's easy to get a hotty consumers and it's easy to get a hotty consumers and it's easy to get a hotty dismissive attitude. dismissive attitude. dismissive attitude. >> But I I think what you can do is invite >> But I I think what you can do is invite >> But I I think what you can do is invite be excited about their passion and be excited about their passion and be excited about their passion and invite them into a conversation about invite them into a conversation about invite them into a conversation about how you're you're shaping the ministry. how you're you're shaping the ministry. how you're you're shaping the ministry. God's people have the Holy Spirit. And God's people have the Holy Spirit. And God's people have the Holy Spirit. And so I think as you can have confidence as so I think as you can have confidence as so I think as you can have confidence as you invite folks in and under the word you invite folks in and under the word you invite folks in and under the word have have conversations about those have have conversations about those have have conversations about those things that um win over their support o things that um win over their support o things that um win over their support o over time to to that mission. But then I over time to to that mission. But then I over time to to that mission. But then I think also think also think also um yeah be being humble and learning um yeah be being humble and learning um yeah be being humble and learning from their perspectives yourself and um from their perspectives yourself and um from their perspectives yourself and um >> but then at the end of the day being >> but then at the end of the day being >> but then at the end of the day being really convictional on on sort of the really convictional on on sort of the really convictional on on sort of the principles you see in God's word and principles you see in God's word and principles you see in God's word and letting that drive letting that drive letting that drive >> uh your ministry first and not what's >> uh your ministry first and not what's >> uh your ministry first and not what's happening around the church. when uh happening around the church. when uh happening around the church. when uh when I was hired as a youth director uh when I was hired as a youth director uh when I was hired as a youth director uh while in seminary, uh the the committee while in seminary, uh the the committee while in seminary, uh the the committee that hired me were the parents that had that hired me were the parents that had that hired me were the parents that had fired the previous uh youth director, at fired the previous uh youth director, at fired the previous uh youth director, at least had started the ground swell to least had started the ground swell to least had started the ground swell to fire him. And they they asked me and and fire him. And they they asked me and and fire him. And they they asked me and and they were in a situation where almost they were in a situation where almost they were in a situation where almost all of the young people um middle all of the young people um middle all of the young people um middle school, but especially high school in school, but especially high school in school, but especially high school in the church were going to other churches the church were going to other churches the church were going to other churches for youth activities. And so they wanted for youth activities. And so they wanted for youth activities. And so they wanted to know what are you going to they're to know what are you going to they're to know what are you going to they're saying this to me. What are you going to saying this to me. What are you going to saying this to me. What are you going to do, you know, to to bring to bring the

do, you know, to to bring to bring the do, you know, to to bring to bring the kids back, you know, and you know, and kids back, you know, and you know, and kids back, you know, and you know, and just like you I I thank you for saying just like you I I thank you for saying just like you I I thank you for saying how important it is not to have a hotty how important it is not to have a hotty how important it is not to have a hotty attitude toward I mean, these are their attitude toward I mean, these are their attitude toward I mean, these are their parents that God has given them. parents that God has given them. parents that God has given them. >> And I'm, you know, I'm I'm at that point >> And I'm, you know, I'm I'm at that point >> And I'm, you know, I'm I'm at that point a 22year-old kid. What do I know? You a 22year-old kid. What do I know? You a 22year-old kid. What do I know? You know, I love Jesus. I love the Bible. know, I love Jesus. I love the Bible. know, I love Jesus. I love the Bible. And I really I do want to love their And I really I do want to love their And I really I do want to love their kids. and I'm excited about the job that kids. and I'm excited about the job that kids. and I'm excited about the job that I get to have with them. But that those I get to have with them. But that those I get to have with them. But that those are their parents and I I should have are their parents and I I should have are their parents and I I should have had more respect for that at that at had more respect for that at that at had more respect for that at that at that age than I did. Sometimes in that age than I did. Sometimes in that age than I did. Sometimes in seminary especially, you can think you seminary especially, you can think you seminary especially, you can think you know stuff. know stuff. know stuff. >> So I I appreciated your note there. But >> So I I appreciated your note there. But >> So I I appreciated your note there. But what I wish I had said to them, Jared, what I wish I had said to them, Jared, what I wish I had said to them, Jared, is that, you know, we we don't have some is that, you know, we we don't have some is that, you know, we we don't have some of the facilities and some of the things of the facilities and some of the things of the facilities and some of the things that that are attracting them to other that that are attracting them to other that that are attracting them to other places, but what I'm going to leverage places, but what I'm going to leverage places, but what I'm going to leverage for you and for them and and hopefully for you and for them and and hopefully for you and for them and and hopefully for the gospel. I'm going to leverage my for the gospel. I'm going to leverage my for the gospel. I'm going to leverage my relationships. relationships. relationships. >> I'm really going to care about your >> I'm really going to care about your >> I'm really going to care about your kids. I'm I'm going to get to know them. kids. I'm I'm going to get to know them. kids. I'm I'm going to get to know them. I'm going to let them get to know me.

I'm going to let them get to know me. I'm going to let them get to know me. And I'm going to leverage that for you. And I'm going to leverage that for you. And I'm going to leverage that for you. And in this day and age where, you know, And in this day and age where, you know, And in this day and age where, you know, these kinds of things just dominate the these kinds of things just dominate the these kinds of things just dominate the world of our young people, the hunger world of our young people, the hunger world of our young people, the hunger for that kind of attention and for that kind of attention and for that kind of attention and relationship is really powerful. I think relationship is really powerful. I think relationship is really powerful. I think it's even more powerful today than it it's even more powerful today than it it's even more powerful today than it was when I was doing youth work in the was when I was doing youth work in the was when I was doing youth work in the 1980s. One warning that I did and once 1980s. One warning that I did and once 1980s. One warning that I did and once once I became a pastor many years later, once I became a pastor many years later, once I became a pastor many years later, one warning that I did give to the one warning that I did give to the one warning that I did give to the parents was this. If if my youth staff parents was this. If if my youth staff parents was this. If if my youth staff is doing a good job with your young is doing a good job with your young is doing a good job with your young people and showing that they care about people and showing that they care about people and showing that they care about them, that they care about Christ, about them, that they care about Christ, about them, that they care about Christ, about the gospel, and about the scripture, and the gospel, and about the scripture, and the gospel, and about the scripture, and you give the impression to your children you give the impression to your children you give the impression to your children that you don't care as much about that that you don't care as much about that that you don't care as much about that as my youth staff does. as my youth staff does. as my youth staff does. >> Two bad things will happen. >> Two bad things will happen. >> Two bad things will happen. Um, or one of two bad things will Um, or one of two bad things will Um, or one of two bad things will happen. You know, one is that your happen. You know, one is that your happen. You know, one is that your children will receive your attitude children will receive your attitude children will receive your attitude towards those things as an indication towards those things as an indication towards those things as an indication that they're not important that they're not important that they're not important >> and and they'll they'll view this as all >> and and they'll they'll view this as all >> and and they'll they'll view this as all a bunch of bunk or they'll decide you're a bunch of bunk or they'll decide you're a bunch of bunk or they'll decide you're not really a Christian. And that's not not really a Christian. And that's not not really a Christian. And that's not what we're trying to that's not what what we're trying to that's not what what we're trying to that's not what we're trying to do in the in in the we're trying to do in the in in the we're trying to do in the in in the youth work. We're trying to supplement, youth work. We're trying to supplement, youth work. We're trying to supplement, complement, amplify your ministry to complement, amplify your ministry to complement, amplify your ministry to your own children's souls. And and that

your own children's souls. And and that your own children's souls. And and that means you've got to care about ministry means you've got to care about ministry means you've got to care about ministry to your children's souls. to your children's souls. to your children's souls. >> You got to care about the gospel. You >> You got to care about the gospel. You >> You got to care about the gospel. You got to care about the Bible. You got to got to care about the Bible. You got to got to care about the Bible. You got to care about them growing in grace. And uh care about them growing in grace. And uh care about them growing in grace. And uh and and we're then hopefully and and we're then hopefully and and we're then hopefully supplementing. And and I a practical way supplementing. And and I a practical way supplementing. And and I a practical way if I can give a testimony real quick. Um if I can give a testimony real quick. Um if I can give a testimony real quick. Um here I am a pastor. I I hope I do care here I am a pastor. I I hope I do care here I am a pastor. I I hope I do care about the gospel. I do care about the about the gospel. I do care about the about the gospel. I do care about the the Bible. I see my son has written and the Bible. I see my son has written and the Bible. I see my son has written and this is when my son is like 14 15 years this is when my son is like 14 15 years this is when my son is like 14 15 years old. He's written all these questions on old. He's written all these questions on old. He's written all these questions on the church bulletin and u I couldn't see the church bulletin and u I couldn't see the church bulletin and u I couldn't see them until he went out of the room and them until he went out of the room and them until he went out of the room and then I kind of ran over to the bulletin then I kind of ran over to the bulletin then I kind of ran over to the bulletin to look at them and they're really basic to look at them and they're really basic to look at them and they're really basic kind of questions that I bet you got kind of questions that I bet you got kind of questions that I bet you got from from people in youth ministry, from from people in youth ministry, from from people in youth ministry, Jared, that Matt has gotten from people Jared, that Matt has gotten from people Jared, that Matt has gotten from people in ministry. But he's getting ready to in ministry. But he's getting ready to in ministry. But he's getting ready to go talk to these with Greg Meyer who who go talk to these with Greg Meyer who who go talk to these with Greg Meyer who who works on the youth staff, not with his works on the youth staff, not with his works on the youth staff, not with his dad, with Greg Meyer. dad, with Greg Meyer. dad, with Greg Meyer. >> And a part of me was, "Wait, what what >> And a part of me was, "Wait, what what >> And a part of me was, "Wait, what what am I a chop liver? You can't talk with am I a chop liver? You can't talk with am I a chop liver? You can't talk with me about that." But I I realized it was me about that." But I I realized it was me about that." But I I realized it was especially with me as a pastor. It was especially with me as a pastor. It was especially with me as a pastor. It was so much less threatening for him to talk so much less threatening for him to talk so much less threatening for him to talk about those things with Greg Meyer, who about those things with Greg Meyer, who about those things with Greg Meyer, who I had taught in class in seminary. and I had taught in class in seminary. and I had taught in class in seminary. and any answer he's going to give you, any answer he's going to give you, any answer he's going to give you, Jennings. Hopefully, I've had something Jennings. Hopefully, I've had something Jennings. Hopefully, I've had something to say informing his opinions about what to say informing his opinions about what to say informing his opinions about what the Bible teaches about that. But I I the Bible teaches about that. But I I the Bible teaches about that. But I I what I had to do is pull back and what I had to do is pull back and what I had to do is pull back and realize that's a blessing that that my realize that's a blessing that that my realize that's a blessing that that my son Amen.

son Amen. son Amen. >> knows Greg trusts him to teach him what >> knows Greg trusts him to teach him what >> knows Greg trusts him to teach him what the Bible says. You know, he was able to the Bible says. You know, he was able to the Bible says. You know, he was able to ask him some things that I think he ask him some things that I think he ask him some things that I think he would have felt embarrassed to ask me. would have felt embarrassed to ask me. would have felt embarrassed to ask me. >> And that's exactly how it ought to work, >> And that's exactly how it ought to work, >> And that's exactly how it ought to work, right? that Greg's not replacing me, but right? that Greg's not replacing me, but right? that Greg's not replacing me, but he's drawing some things out of my son he's drawing some things out of my son he's drawing some things out of my son that my son might have been afraid to that my son might have been afraid to that my son might have been afraid to ask me. And that's a wonderful picture ask me. And that's a wonderful picture ask me. And that's a wonderful picture of how things can be with with folks in of how things can be with with folks in of how things can be with with folks in the church that are focused on our youth the church that are focused on our youth the church that are focused on our youth and our children, helping our parents be and our children, helping our parents be and our children, helping our parents be better parents, supplementing and better parents, supplementing and better parents, supplementing and amplifying their ministry to their amplifying their ministry to their amplifying their ministry to their children. children. children. >> I I Isn't it beautiful, too? I mean, my >> I I Isn't it beautiful, too? I mean, my >> I I Isn't it beautiful, too? I mean, my oldest is 20 years old and she came back oldest is 20 years old and she came back oldest is 20 years old and she came back and gave a testimony at our youth group and gave a testimony at our youth group and gave a testimony at our youth group a couple of of weeks ago and she was a couple of of weeks ago and she was a couple of of weeks ago and she was sharing these things that have become sharing these things that have become sharing these things that have become more real for her in college. And she more real for her in college. And she more real for her in college. And she says during the testimony she, you know, says during the testimony she, you know, says during the testimony she, you know, these are things that Miss Amy uh who is these are things that Miss Amy uh who is these are things that Miss Amy uh who is one of our youth leaders tal taught me.

one of our youth leaders tal taught me. one of our youth leaders tal taught me. These are things that um Samantha Chang These are things that um Samantha Chang These are things that um Samantha Chang taught me. And I was like, yeah, these taught me. And I was like, yeah, these taught me. And I was like, yeah, these are things your dad taught you, too. are things your dad taught you, too. are things your dad taught you, too. But but you heard them. >> You you heard them from that third >> You you heard them from that third voice, you know. And I think that's voice, you know. And I think that's voice, you know. And I think that's >> I think it's a really beautiful thing >> I think it's a really beautiful thing >> I think it's a really beautiful thing how the Lord uses the church to to how the Lord uses the church to to how the Lord uses the church to to cultivate that faith in our kids. cultivate that faith in our kids. cultivate that faith in our kids. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> She's quoting, crediting CS Lewis, who >> She's quoting, crediting CS Lewis, who >> She's quoting, crediting CS Lewis, who was just quoting Jared Kennedy, so it's was just quoting Jared Kennedy, so it's was just quoting Jared Kennedy, so it's all good. all good. all good. Um, Um, Um, no, I I have the same experience like no, I I have the same experience like no, I I have the same experience like you mentioned like the things that kids you mentioned like the things that kids you mentioned like the things that kids will write in the bulletins, uh, the will write in the bulletins, uh, the will write in the bulletins, uh, the questions they'll ask you. In the fall questions they'll ask you. In the fall questions they'll ask you. In the fall of 2024, I preached through judges, of 2024, I preached through judges, of 2024, I preached through judges, which was a wild ride. And so the which was a wild ride. And so the which was a wild ride. And so the questions I received from kids during questions I received from kids during questions I received from kids during that series, um, were often really that series, um, were often really that series, um, were often really thoughtful. A lot of them I didn't know thoughtful. A lot of them I didn't know thoughtful. A lot of them I didn't know the answers to, but also the the answers to, but also the the answers to, but also the illustrations that they had kind of illustrations that they had kind of illustrations that they had kind of sketched uh, were a little more gory sketched uh, were a little more gory sketched uh, were a little more gory than normal. And speaking of of judges, than normal. And speaking of of judges, than normal. And speaking of of judges, I think another good text pastors that I think another good text pastors that I think another good text pastors that that you can use to help train your that you can use to help train your that you can use to help train your parents and give them a vision for the parents and give them a vision for the parents and give them a vision for the kind of disciplehip of their children kind of disciplehip of their children kind of disciplehip of their children that they're at the front lines of is is that they're at the front lines of is is that they're at the front lines of is is Judges 2:10. um where the the author Judges 2:10. um where the the author Judges 2:10. um where the the author writes, "After Joshua's whole generation writes, "After Joshua's whole generation writes, "After Joshua's whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, had been gathered to their ancestors, had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who neither another generation grew up who neither another generation grew up who neither knew the Lord nor what he had done for

knew the Lord nor what he had done for knew the Lord nor what he had done for Israel." And we can't go back in time Israel." And we can't go back in time Israel." And we can't go back in time and climb into the minds of Joshua's and climb into the minds of Joshua's and climb into the minds of Joshua's generation and observe their parenting, generation and observe their parenting, generation and observe their parenting, but we can look at the fruit, and it's a but we can look at the fruit, and it's a but we can look at the fruit, and it's a damning indictment. damning indictment. damning indictment. >> And here's what struck me when I was >> And here's what struck me when I was >> And here's what struck me when I was preaching through this. Who were these preaching through this. Who were these preaching through this. Who were these parents who had abdicated their parents who had abdicated their parents who had abdicated their responsibility? It was the very responsibility? It was the very responsibility? It was the very generation who had taken the land, who generation who had taken the land, who generation who had taken the land, who had seen the mighty outstretched hand of had seen the mighty outstretched hand of had seen the mighty outstretched hand of God and vanquishing their foes, who had God and vanquishing their foes, who had God and vanquishing their foes, who had even at one point seen the sun stand even at one point seen the sun stand even at one point seen the sun stand still in the sky. And of course, their still in the sky. And of course, their still in the sky. And of course, their parents, the grandparents of this parents, the grandparents of this parents, the grandparents of this generation, were the ones who got to generation, were the ones who got to generation, were the ones who got to walk through walls of water as God walk through walls of water as God walk through walls of water as God ushered them out of slavery in Egypt. ushered them out of slavery in Egypt. ushered them out of slavery in Egypt. Um, and so the sacred responsibility of Um, and so the sacred responsibility of Um, and so the sacred responsibility of passing on and passing down the faith passing on and passing down the faith passing on and passing down the faith through the generations, through the generations, through the generations, just like the gospel, you know, as it's just like the gospel, you know, as it's just like the gospel, you know, as it's been said, one generation teaches the been said, one generation teaches the been said, one generation teaches the gospel, but if the next generation gospel, but if the next generation gospel, but if the next generation merely assumes the gospel, the third merely assumes the gospel, the third merely assumes the gospel, the third generation will lose it. Um, and so we generation will lose it. Um, and so we generation will lose it. Um, and so we we have such an opportunity with the we have such an opportunity with the we have such an opportunity with the parents in our churches. And I think in parents in our churches. And I think in parents in our churches. And I think in particular with the dads now, we particular with the dads now, we particular with the dads now, we understand that understand that understand that >> not every family is is going to have an >> not every family is is going to have an >> not every family is is going to have an intact household with with two parents intact household with with two parents intact household with with two parents and a believing father. But where that and a believing father. But where that and a believing father. But where that is the case, uh I think we have the job is the case, uh I think we have the job is the case, uh I think we have the job of as pastors of really pressing on of as pastors of really pressing on of as pastors of really pressing on fathers in our church the responsibility fathers in our church the responsibility fathers in our church the responsibility not just to delegate everything to the not just to delegate everything to the not just to delegate everything to the youth leader or to mom. That's good. but

youth leader or to mom. That's good. but youth leader or to mom. That's good. but to really view themselves as being on to really view themselves as being on to really view themselves as being on the front lines of forming and shaping the front lines of forming and shaping the front lines of forming and shaping their kids spiritually. And lig I was their kids spiritually. And lig I was their kids spiritually. And lig I was happy that you mentioned you asked Jared happy that you mentioned you asked Jared happy that you mentioned you asked Jared about how the culture factors into that about how the culture factors into that about how the culture factors into that to this. Um I do think to this. Um I do think to this. Um I do think >> knowing that our children are being >> knowing that our children are being >> knowing that our children are being formed by cultural narratives, we have formed by cultural narratives, we have formed by cultural narratives, we have to engage in counter formation, counter to engage in counter formation, counter to engage in counter formation, counter katakis. Our our friend Trevan Wax and katakis. Our our friend Trevan Wax and katakis. Our our friend Trevan Wax and Thomas West have a um 50 question Thomas West have a um 50 question Thomas West have a um 50 question catechism coming out summer of 2025. The catechism coming out summer of 2025. The catechism coming out summer of 2025. The gospel way catechism 50 truths that take gospel way catechism 50 truths that take gospel way catechism 50 truths that take on the world that are is just a simple on the world that are is just a simple on the world that are is just a simple way of helping children not just be way of helping children not just be way of helping children not just be formed by biblical truths but formed by biblical truths but formed by biblical truths but counterformed in a world of expressive counterformed in a world of expressive counterformed in a world of expressive individualism. individualism. individualism. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> What are some ways? Not every church is >> What are some ways? Not every church is >> What are some ways? Not every church is going to be able to have a paid youth going to be able to have a paid youth going to be able to have a paid youth pastor, but oftentimes there's at least pastor, but oftentimes there's at least pastor, but oftentimes there's at least a volunteer who's helping to coordinate a volunteer who's helping to coordinate a volunteer who's helping to coordinate and oversee ministry to teens. Um, what and oversee ministry to teens. Um, what and oversee ministry to teens. Um, what are ways that pastors can think well, are ways that pastors can think well, are ways that pastors can think well, can speak well of what youth ministry can speak well of what youth ministry can speak well of what youth ministry ought to be in the life of the church ought to be in the life of the church ought to be in the life of the church and serve those who are helping to lead and serve those who are helping to lead and serve those who are helping to lead it?

it? it? >> Yeah. I I think the first thing um I >> Yeah. I I think the first thing um I >> Yeah. I I think the first thing um I would do if I were a church planning would do if I were a church planning would do if I were a church planning pastor and we're a small church and we pastor and we're a small church and we pastor and we're a small church and we don't have a youth group but but we're don't have a youth group but but we're don't have a youth group but but we're thinking we may be at a place where we thinking we may be at a place where we thinking we may be at a place where we have one in the future. I I'd spend some have one in the future. I I'd spend some have one in the future. I I'd spend some time reading about youth ministry. I time reading about youth ministry. I time reading about youth ministry. I think um uh Cameron Cole um in John think um uh Cameron Cole um in John think um uh Cameron Cole um in John Nielsen's book Gospel Centered Youth Nielsen's book Gospel Centered Youth Nielsen's book Gospel Centered Youth Ministry uh the books by John Parrot Ministry uh the books by John Parrot Ministry uh the books by John Parrot Timothy Paul Jones is another good Timothy Paul Jones is another good Timothy Paul Jones is another good author to read those books uh about author to read those books uh about author to read those books uh about youth ministry so you're aware of the youth ministry so you're aware of the youth ministry so you're aware of the philosophies that are out there and philosophies that are out there and philosophies that are out there and think about that think about that think about that >> and then I think as you're reading that >> and then I think as you're reading that >> and then I think as you're reading that don't read those books by yourself read don't read those books by yourself read don't read those books by yourself read those books with the parents of the those books with the parents of the those books with the parents of the students who um are in your church. And students who um are in your church. And students who um are in your church. And so pull those dads that are in your so pull those dads that are in your so pull those dads that are in your purview uh around you and and kind of purview uh around you and and kind of purview uh around you and and kind of read about what it looks like to read about what it looks like to read about what it looks like to disciple youth together. And you might disciple youth together. And you might disciple youth together. And you might want to read a book about some of the want to read a book about some of the want to read a book about some of the cultural things, a Jonathan Height book cultural things, a Jonathan Height book cultural things, a Jonathan Height book or Gene Twingy's book on generations or or Gene Twingy's book on generations or or Gene Twingy's book on generations or or or Abigail Shriers's book, something or or Abigail Shriers's book, something or or Abigail Shriers's book, something something like that. Or something like that. Or something like that. Or >> good night, bro. You almost speak as if >> good night, bro. You almost speak as if >> good night, bro. You almost speak as if your day job is as a managing reading your day job is as a managing reading your day job is as a managing reading books and curriculum.

books and curriculum. books and curriculum. >> To to jump in, he mentioned John Parrot. >> To to jump in, he mentioned John Parrot. >> To to jump in, he mentioned John Parrot. John uh writes for Reformed Youth John uh writes for Reformed Youth John uh writes for Reformed Youth Ministries, R YM, and they do have a ton Ministries, R YM, and they do have a ton Ministries, R YM, and they do have a ton of resources including stuff online like of resources including stuff online like of resources including stuff online like this that also addresses the sort of uh this that also addresses the sort of uh this that also addresses the sort of uh cultural narratives as well as gives you cultural narratives as well as gives you cultural narratives as well as gives you curricular ideas. curricular ideas. curricular ideas. >> Yeah. And I think others in our stream >> Yeah. And I think others in our stream >> Yeah. And I think others in our stream would be Cameron Cole and Rooted Youth would be Cameron Cole and Rooted Youth would be Cameron Cole and Rooted Youth Ministries and uh in in the Baptist Ministries and uh in in the Baptist Ministries and uh in in the Baptist stream, Mike McGary uh group which is stream, Mike McGary uh group which is stream, Mike McGary uh group which is called Youth Pastor Theologian. called Youth Pastor Theologian. called Youth Pastor Theologian. >> Yes, I'm a reader. That's my job. >> Yes, I'm a reader. That's my job. >> Yes, I'm a reader. That's my job. >> Um but I I found it really helpful to >> Um but I I found it really helpful to >> Um but I I found it really helpful to read those kinds of materials with the read those kinds of materials with the read those kinds of materials with the other men who care about this. And other men who care about this. And other men who care about this. And you're not going to read them all in in you're not going to read them all in in you're not going to read them all in in a week, but you know, spend six or eight a week, but you know, spend six or eight a week, but you know, spend six or eight months working through a book and asking months working through a book and asking months working through a book and asking questions. And I think what the spirit questions. And I think what the spirit questions. And I think what the spirit stirs in relationships like that are the stirs in relationships like that are the stirs in relationships like that are the ways to to draw near to kids and say, ways to to draw near to kids and say, ways to to draw near to kids and say, "Oh, no. We're not going to have a giant "Oh, no. We're not going to have a giant "Oh, no. We're not going to have a giant youth group, but we can we can have a youth group, but we can we can have a youth group, but we can we can have a Bible study in a couple's home. Um, Bible study in a couple's home. Um, Bible study in a couple's home. Um, there are one or two kids here who who there are one or two kids here who who there are one or two kids here who who need someone to come alongside as a as a need someone to come alongside as a as a need someone to come alongside as a as a mentor and a a discipler in their in mentor and a a discipler in their in mentor and a a discipler in their in their life. And here are some principles their life. And here are some principles their life. And here are some principles to think about, some questions to ask as to think about, some questions to ask as to think about, some questions to ask as that's happening." And I think resources that's happening." And I think resources that's happening." And I think resources like that get us get us thinking. Um, like that get us get us thinking. Um, like that get us get us thinking. Um, yeah, during my oldest high school yeah, during my oldest high school yeah, during my oldest high school years, we read Rebecca McGlaughlin's The years, we read Rebecca McGlaughlin's The years, we read Rebecca McGlaughlin's The Secular Creed together. Little studies Secular Creed together. Little studies Secular Creed together. Little studies like that like I think just are are

like that like I think just are are like that like I think just are are tremendously helpful for helping wrestle tremendously helpful for helping wrestle tremendously helpful for helping wrestle through um, you know, the things that through um, you know, the things that through um, you know, the things that kids face out in the world today. kids face out in the world today. kids face out in the world today. >> Let's talk now about vetting volunteers. >> Let's talk now about vetting volunteers. >> Let's talk now about vetting volunteers. Who should be leading in youth ministry Who should be leading in youth ministry Who should be leading in youth ministry and who shouldn't? and who shouldn't? and who shouldn't? Yeah, I I always like to open Matthew 18 Yeah, I I always like to open Matthew 18 Yeah, I I always like to open Matthew 18 um when I think about this because this um when I think about this because this um when I think about this because this was um you know Jesus and his young was um you know Jesus and his young was um you know Jesus and his young trainy church planners um who are asking trainy church planners um who are asking trainy church planners um who are asking about um who wants to be greatest in the about um who wants to be greatest in the about um who wants to be greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And uh Jesus takes a kingdom of heaven. And uh Jesus takes a kingdom of heaven. And uh Jesus takes a child and he puts it among them and says child and he puts it among them and says child and he puts it among them and says if you want to be great in the kingdom if you want to be great in the kingdom if you want to be great in the kingdom of heaven become like a child. And then of heaven become like a child. And then of heaven become like a child. And then he gives them an immediate application he gives them an immediate application he gives them an immediate application for that which is welcome that child and for that which is welcome that child and for that which is welcome that child and when you welcome them you welcome me. when you welcome them you welcome me. when you welcome them you welcome me. And so I think the first qualification And so I think the first qualification And so I think the first qualification for a youth ministry leader is humility. for a youth ministry leader is humility. for a youth ministry leader is humility. Um the kind of person uh whether it's Um the kind of person uh whether it's Um the kind of person uh whether it's children's ministry or youth ministry uh children's ministry or youth ministry uh children's ministry or youth ministry uh the kind of person who takes the posture the kind of person who takes the posture the kind of person who takes the posture of a child who's dependent on the Lord of a child who's dependent on the Lord of a child who's dependent on the Lord and that's evident in their character.

and that's evident in their character. and that's evident in their character. As you keep reading um that passage, As you keep reading um that passage, As you keep reading um that passage, Jesus says, "Whoever welcomes one such Jesus says, "Whoever welcomes one such Jesus says, "Whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me." And then child in my name welcomes me." And then child in my name welcomes me." And then he says, "If if anyone causes one of he says, "If if anyone causes one of he says, "If if anyone causes one of these little ones, those who believe in these little ones, those who believe in these little ones, those who believe in me, to stumble, it would be better for me, to stumble, it would be better for me, to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung them to have a large millstone hung them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in around their neck and to be drowned in around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world the depths of the sea. Woe to the world the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people because of the things that cause people because of the things that cause people to stumble. Such things must come, but to stumble. Such things must come, but to stumble. Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they woe to the person through whom they woe to the person through whom they come. And then he he turns it from woe come. And then he he turns it from woe come. And then he he turns it from woe to the world to he points right at his to the world to he points right at his to the world to he points right at his disciples and says, "If your hand or disciples and says, "If your hand or disciples and says, "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it your foot causes you to stumble, cut it your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and and throw it away." This is the off and and throw it away." This is the off and and throw it away." This is the passage that passage that passage that has probably most um formed my has probably most um formed my has probably most um formed my convictions about child protection and convictions about child protection and convictions about child protection and the protection of our youth. Um it's it the protection of our youth. Um it's it the protection of our youth. Um it's it says that for those who are immature in says that for those who are immature in says that for those who are immature in their faith or for those who really are their faith or for those who really are their faith or for those who really are are children and and youth in the faith are children and and youth in the faith are children and and youth in the faith that the way uh that there are things that the way uh that there are things that the way uh that there are things that can happen to them that would be that can happen to them that would be that can happen to them that would be stumbling blocks for them being able to stumbling blocks for them being able to stumbling blocks for them being able to believe in the future. And so he's believe in the future. And so he's believe in the future. And so he's thinking about the kinds of things that thinking about the kinds of things that thinking about the kinds of things that hands and feet do um that uh would hands and feet do um that uh would hands and feet do um that uh would sexually hurt a a kid or would sexually hurt a a kid or would sexually hurt a a kid or would physically hurt a kid. Um and that those physically hurt a kid. Um and that those physically hurt a kid. Um and that those things would be a stumbling block, those things would be a stumbling block, those things would be a stumbling block, those things that happen when faith is things that happen when faith is things that happen when faith is immature to that faith maturing in the immature to that faith maturing in the immature to that faith maturing in the future. And so he gives this severe

future. And so he gives this severe future. And so he gives this severe warning, one of the most severe warnings warning, one of the most severe warnings warning, one of the most severe warnings in the New Testament. Put a millstone in the New Testament. Put a millstone in the New Testament. Put a millstone around your neck and then would be cast around your neck and then would be cast around your neck and then would be cast in in the depths of the sea. There's a in in the depths of the sea. There's a in in the depths of the sea. There's a there's a harsh severe warning there. there's a harsh severe warning there. there's a harsh severe warning there. Um, so the the kind of person that I Um, so the the kind of person that I Um, so the the kind of person that I want serving in a youth ministry is the want serving in a youth ministry is the want serving in a youth ministry is the kind of person that's humble, but then kind of person that's humble, but then kind of person that's humble, but then the kind of person that's self-aware not the kind of person that's self-aware not the kind of person that's self-aware not just of all the sins that happen out just of all the sins that happen out just of all the sins that happen out there in the world, but the sins who there in the world, but the sins who there in the world, but the sins who that happen in his own heart or her own that happen in his own heart or her own that happen in his own heart or her own heart. and it's able to look at at those heart. and it's able to look at at those heart. and it's able to look at at those ways that they're tempted by pride, uh, ways that they're tempted by pride, uh, ways that they're tempted by pride, uh, tempted by by lust and is honest and is tempted by by lust and is honest and is tempted by by lust and is honest and is is repenting of those things. And so, we is repenting of those things. And so, we is repenting of those things. And so, we could talk about background check and could talk about background check and could talk about background check and vetting and and those kinds of um, vetting and and those kinds of um, vetting and and those kinds of um, safety protocols that you can put in safety protocols that you can put in safety protocols that you can put in place to help you guard against those place to help you guard against those place to help you guard against those things. Um, but the first thing I'm things. Um, but the first thing I'm things. Um, but the first thing I'm looking for in a youth or children's looking for in a youth or children's looking for in a youth or children's ministry leader is character. um ministry leader is character. um ministry leader is character. um character that embraces um and embodies character that embraces um and embodies character that embraces um and embodies that kind of humility that Jesus talks that kind of humility that Jesus talks that kind of humility that Jesus talks about in that passage.

about in that passage. about in that passage. >> That's a good word. Uh that reminded me >> That's a good word. Uh that reminded me >> That's a good word. Uh that reminded me of something JC Riyle said about that of something JC Riyle said about that of something JC Riyle said about that passage. He said, "Let us learn from passage. He said, "Let us learn from passage. He said, "Let us learn from these verses that the Lord Jesus cares these verses that the Lord Jesus cares these verses that the Lord Jesus cares tenderly for the souls of children. tenderly for the souls of children. tenderly for the souls of children. >> It is probable that Satan especially >> It is probable that Satan especially >> It is probable that Satan especially hates them. It is certain that Jesus hates them. It is certain that Jesus hates them. It is certain that Jesus especially loves them." M especially loves them." M especially loves them." M >> young as they are >> young as they are >> young as they are >> young as they are they are not beneath >> young as they are they are not beneath >> young as they are they are not beneath his attention. The mighty heart of his his attention. The mighty heart of his his attention. The mighty heart of his has room for the baby in his cradle as has room for the baby in his cradle as has room for the baby in his cradle as well as the king upon the throne. He well as the king upon the throne. He well as the king upon the throne. He regards each one as possessing within regards each one as possessing within regards each one as possessing within its little body a soul that will outlive its little body a soul that will outlive its little body a soul that will outlive the pyramids of Egypt and see sun and the pyramids of Egypt and see sun and the pyramids of Egypt and see sun and moon quenched at the last day. moon quenched at the last day. moon quenched at the last day. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Amen. One thing I've said to the kids in >> Amen. One thing I've said to the kids in >> Amen. One thing I've said to the kids in our church before is many of you know our church before is many of you know our church before is many of you know the experience of being at an amusement the experience of being at an amusement the experience of being at an amusement park and not being tall enough to ride a park and not being tall enough to ride a park and not being tall enough to ride a certain ride. Um, but when it comes to certain ride. Um, but when it comes to certain ride. Um, but when it comes to entrance into heaven, it's it's the entrance into heaven, it's it's the entrance into heaven, it's it's the opposite. We have to be spiritually opposite. We have to be spiritually opposite. We have to be spiritually small enough to enter, spiritually small enough to enter, spiritually small enough to enter, spiritually humble enough and understanding our need humble enough and understanding our need humble enough and understanding our need uh for Christ alone.

uh for Christ alone. uh for Christ alone. >> Jared, we've talked vetting volunteers. >> Jared, we've talked vetting volunteers. >> Jared, we've talked vetting volunteers. Let's talk vetting, selecting Let's talk vetting, selecting Let's talk vetting, selecting curriculum. Uh whether for children's curriculum. Uh whether for children's curriculum. Uh whether for children's ministry or youth ministry, uh any ministry or youth ministry, uh any ministry or youth ministry, uh any specific recommendations for how specific recommendations for how specific recommendations for how pastors, churches can think well about pastors, churches can think well about pastors, churches can think well about this? this? this? >> Well, I think the first thing I would >> Well, I think the first thing I would >> Well, I think the first thing I would say, um and I'm just going to put all my say, um and I'm just going to put all my say, um and I'm just going to put all my cards on the table as a cards on the table as a cards on the table as a congregationalist, um but that don't do congregationalist, um but that don't do congregationalist, um but that don't do that by yourself. Like like put a team that by yourself. Like like put a team that by yourself. Like like put a team of people together who can help you of people together who can help you of people together who can help you think about um the curriculum. And so think about um the curriculum. And so think about um the curriculum. And so while I think it is a pastoral while I think it is a pastoral while I think it is a pastoral responsibility, I think decisions about responsibility, I think decisions about responsibility, I think decisions about the the teaching plan and the overall the the teaching plan and the overall the the teaching plan and the overall Christian education plan for a for a Christian education plan for a for a Christian education plan for a for a church are best made in community um church are best made in community um church are best made in community um usually by by the elders ultimately, but usually by by the elders ultimately, but usually by by the elders ultimately, but I I think also um putting together a I I think also um putting together a I I think also um putting together a team of people, a committee of people team of people, a committee of people team of people, a committee of people from the congregation who can help vet from the congregation who can help vet from the congregation who can help vet those things. So that's the first thing those things. So that's the first thing those things. So that's the first thing I would say. Um, and then think I think I would say. Um, and then think I think I would say. Um, and then think I think you want to actually think about what you want to actually think about what you want to actually think about what your goals for your ministry are and your goals for your ministry are and your goals for your ministry are and what your goals in in teaching are. And what your goals in in teaching are. And what your goals in in teaching are. And so you want to honestly put together so you want to honestly put together so you want to honestly put together that thought of like where are we that thought of like where are we that thought of like where are we heading in our Christian education plan heading in our Christian education plan heading in our Christian education plan first even before you you buy the first even before you you buy the first even before you you buy the curriculum to fit that. And so, um, Alan curriculum to fit that. And so, um, Alan curriculum to fit that. And so, um, Alan Curry, who was Christian education Curry, who was Christian education Curry, who was Christian education professor at Erskin College many years professor at Erskin College many years professor at Erskin College many years ago, has this great illustration of of ago, has this great illustration of of ago, has this great illustration of of how to think about putting together that how to think about putting together that how to think about putting together that plan where he talked about the bead

plan where he talked about the bead plan where he talked about the bead crafts that kids make in their crafts that kids make in their crafts that kids make in their children's ministry lessons. And he children's ministry lessons. And he children's ministry lessons. And he said, when kids are first learning about said, when kids are first learning about said, when kids are first learning about the gospel, they're just playing with the gospel, they're just playing with the gospel, they're just playing with the little beads. they have the the the little beads. they have the the the little beads. they have the the individual memory verses, the catechism individual memory verses, the catechism individual memory verses, the catechism questions, the the the doctrines and the questions, the the the doctrines and the questions, the the the doctrines and the stories, and sometimes they've learned stories, and sometimes they've learned stories, and sometimes they've learned even to memorize them and and say those even to memorize them and and say those even to memorize them and and say those back, but they really don't have an back, but they really don't have an back, but they really don't have an understanding of how those fit together. understanding of how those fit together. understanding of how those fit together. Um, but in those early years, you want Um, but in those early years, you want Um, but in those early years, you want to introduce them to those things. Um, to introduce them to those things. Um, to introduce them to those things. Um, as they get older, you want to see them as they get older, you want to see them as they get older, you want to see them learn how to fit those things together learn how to fit those things together learn how to fit those things together in a way that, you know, all the yellow in a way that, you know, all the yellow in a way that, you know, all the yellow beads here, all the round beads here, beads here, all the round beads here, beads here, all the round beads here, all the all the green and square beads all the all the green and square beads all the all the green and square beads here. Um, the same way that a kid might here. Um, the same way that a kid might here. Um, the same way that a kid might sort out those beads when they're making sort out those beads when they're making sort out those beads when they're making their craft, you want to understand this their craft, you want to understand this their craft, you want to understand this is part of systematics and this is part is part of systematics and this is part is part of systematics and this is part of the biblical storyline and this is, of the biblical storyline and this is, of the biblical storyline and this is, you know, be able to sort those things you know, be able to sort those things you know, be able to sort those things out in a category way for kids. And I out in a category way for kids. And I out in a category way for kids. And I think that's really good for the early think that's really good for the early think that's really good for the early elementary years. Um Dorothy Sarah said elementary years. Um Dorothy Sarah said elementary years. Um Dorothy Sarah said by the end of in Lost Tools of Learning by the end of in Lost Tools of Learning by the end of in Lost Tools of Learning by the end of fifth grade a kid should by the end of fifth grade a kid should by the end of fifth grade a kid should know the story of God and man in outline know the story of God and man in outline know the story of God and man in outline as well as the Apostles Creed, the Ten as well as the Apostles Creed, the Ten as well as the Apostles Creed, the Ten Commandments and the Lord's Prayer. And Commandments and the Lord's Prayer. And Commandments and the Lord's Prayer. And so she's basically just going back to um so she's basically just going back to um so she's basically just going back to um her Anglican catechism and saying here her Anglican catechism and saying here her Anglican catechism and saying here are the the the basic concepts that kids are the the the basic concepts that kids are the the the basic concepts that kids should learn in these early elementary should learn in these early elementary should learn in these early elementary years. Um really at beyond those years years. Um really at beyond those years years. Um really at beyond those years you're looking at shephering their you're looking at shephering their you're looking at shephering their heart. What Curry said was you want to

heart. What Curry said was you want to heart. What Curry said was you want to show them how all these beads fit show them how all these beads fit show them how all these beads fit together and that the string that holds together and that the string that holds together and that the string that holds them together is the story of them together is the story of them together is the story of redemption, is the story of Jesus. And redemption, is the story of Jesus. And redemption, is the story of Jesus. And then you want to draw them into really then you want to draw them into really then you want to draw them into really believing in Jesus as the one who holds believing in Jesus as the one who holds believing in Jesus as the one who holds that that story together. So that that that story together. So that that that story together. So that finally by youth group years, you're finally by youth group years, you're finally by youth group years, you're asking them to wear that necklace around asking them to wear that necklace around asking them to wear that necklace around their neck and say, "This is mine." I their neck and say, "This is mine." I their neck and say, "This is mine." I you know, so just like a a kid when they you know, so just like a a kid when they you know, so just like a a kid when they make a craft like that comes home after make a craft like that comes home after make a craft like that comes home after Sunday school and says, "Uh, you know, Sunday school and says, "Uh, you know, Sunday school and says, "Uh, you know, this is this is the necklace I made." this is this is the necklace I made." this is this is the necklace I made." who wants to show mom mom and dad in the who wants to show mom mom and dad in the who wants to show mom mom and dad in the same way um kids in youth group we want same way um kids in youth group we want same way um kids in youth group we want them to own this faith in a way that's them to own this faith in a way that's them to own this faith in a way that's theirs and belongs to them. Um so I I've theirs and belongs to them. Um so I I've theirs and belongs to them. Um so I I've always loved that vision of a Christian always loved that vision of a Christian always loved that vision of a Christian education plan. Now in your individual education plan. Now in your individual education plan. Now in your individual church, your denominational church, your denominational church, your denominational distinctives, you know, the mission distinctives, you know, the mission distinctives, you know, the mission distinctives of your local church are distinctives of your local church are distinctives of your local church are going to to shape those different going to to shape those different going to to shape those different things. But before you start shopping things. But before you start shopping things. But before you start shopping for curriculum, I think it's important for curriculum, I think it's important for curriculum, I think it's important to know kind of your thoughts about how to know kind of your thoughts about how to know kind of your thoughts about how that plan gets put together. Um, and that plan gets put together. Um, and that plan gets put together. Um, and then I would say know your confessional then I would say know your confessional then I would say know your confessional standards. Know, you know, know your, standards. Know, you know, know your, standards. Know, you know, know your, um, your church's doctrinal statement um, your church's doctrinal statement um, your church's doctrinal statement and assess that curriculum against that and assess that curriculum against that and assess that curriculum against that doctrinal statement. Assess it based on doctrinal statement. Assess it based on doctrinal statement. Assess it based on that Christian education plan and how it that Christian education plan and how it that Christian education plan and how it fits within that. When I first started fits within that. When I first started fits within that. When I first started um in children's ministry in the um in um in children's ministry in the um in um in children's ministry in the um in the early 2000s, there weren't a ton of the early 2000s, there weren't a ton of the early 2000s, there weren't a ton of uh great gospel- centered resources out

uh great gospel- centered resources out uh great gospel- centered resources out there, but they have just exploded over there, but they have just exploded over there, but they have just exploded over the last number of years. Publishers the last number of years. Publishers the last number of years. Publishers like Crossway and Kevin D. Young's like Crossway and Kevin D. Young's like Crossway and Kevin D. Young's biggest story curriculum, publishers biggest story curriculum, publishers biggest story curriculum, publishers like New Growth Press and their like New Growth Press and their like New Growth Press and their different um curriculum lines. um Great different um curriculum lines. um Great different um curriculum lines. um Great Commission Publications has always done Commission Publications has always done Commission Publications has always done great materials um that are more great materials um that are more great materials um that are more Presbyterian distinctive. So I I think Presbyterian distinctive. So I I think Presbyterian distinctive. So I I think those resources those resources those resources >> the Gospel Project >> the Gospel Project >> the Gospel Project >> and Lifeways the Gospel Project has been >> and Lifeways the Gospel Project has been >> and Lifeways the Gospel Project has been just a a a great one. I I don't know why just a a a great one. I I don't know why just a a a great one. I I don't know why I went PCA before I went SBC as a I went PCA before I went SBC as a I went PCA before I went SBC as a Baptist. Maybe I should resay that. >> Everyday pastor making everything. >> Everyday pastor making everything. [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] >> Um I'm just going to talk about the >> Um I'm just going to talk about the >> Um I'm just going to talk about the gospel project right now. So, uh, you gospel project right now. So, uh, you gospel project right now. So, uh, you know, the Gospel Project curriculum that know, the Gospel Project curriculum that know, the Gospel Project curriculum that when Trevan Wax worked there, he um had when Trevan Wax worked there, he um had when Trevan Wax worked there, he um had a a lot developed a lot of the vision a a lot developed a lot of the vision a a lot developed a lot of the vision for that curriculum, which is has for that curriculum, which is has for that curriculum, which is has actually been the curriculum that our actually been the curriculum that our actually been the curriculum that our local church has used for many, many local church has used for many, many local church has used for many, many years. And um I I think there are great years. And um I I think there are great years. And um I I think there are great curriculums available out there, but I curriculums available out there, but I curriculums available out there, but I I'd begin there with uh your doctrine uh I'd begin there with uh your doctrine uh I'd begin there with uh your doctrine uh your local church context and that your local church context and that your local church context and that education plan and and thinking through education plan and and thinking through education plan and and thinking through what fits the need of your context what fits the need of your context what fits the need of your context specifically.

specifically. specifically. >> I think that's a good word. There's >> I think that's a good word. There's >> I think that's a good word. There's flexibility, pastor, based on your flexibility, pastor, based on your flexibility, pastor, based on your context. But what we would say is context. But what we would say is context. But what we would say is non-negotiable is that the material, the non-negotiable is that the material, the non-negotiable is that the material, the curriculum is not just behavioristic. curriculum is not just behavioristic. curriculum is not just behavioristic. Um, we're not just trying to raise Um, we're not just trying to raise Um, we're not just trying to raise welladjusted, upstanding citizens. We're welladjusted, upstanding citizens. We're welladjusted, upstanding citizens. We're trying to raise people who love the Lord trying to raise people who love the Lord trying to raise people who love the Lord Jesus Christ. So, we want curriculum Jesus Christ. So, we want curriculum Jesus Christ. So, we want curriculum that is Bible saturated, gospel- that is Bible saturated, gospel- that is Bible saturated, gospel- centered, that weaves the story together centered, that weaves the story together centered, that weaves the story together as one coherent whole and shows not just as one coherent whole and shows not just as one coherent whole and shows not just the truth of the Bible, but also the the truth of the Bible, but also the the truth of the Bible, but also the beauty and the compelling glory of a beauty and the compelling glory of a beauty and the compelling glory of a life found in Christ Jesus. Jared, feel life found in Christ Jesus. Jared, feel life found in Christ Jesus. Jared, feel free to draw from your own family's free to draw from your own family's free to draw from your own family's experience here, but how can pastors and experience here, but how can pastors and experience here, but how can pastors and youth leaders care for and support youth leaders care for and support youth leaders care for and support families that have children with special families that have children with special families that have children with special needs? needs? needs? >> Yeah, thanks for asking that, Matt. Um, >> Yeah, thanks for asking that, Matt. Um, >> Yeah, thanks for asking that, Matt. Um, you know, this is part of uh mine and you know, this is part of uh mine and you know, this is part of uh mine and your relationship and how we got to know your relationship and how we got to know your relationship and how we got to know each other in some ways, but um our our each other in some ways, but um our our each other in some ways, but um our our middle daughter, our 18-year-old, uh middle daughter, our 18-year-old, uh middle daughter, our 18-year-old, uh Lucy was diagnosed with severe autism Lucy was diagnosed with severe autism Lucy was diagnosed with severe autism when when she was three. Um, and at that when when she was three. Um, and at that when when she was three. Um, and at that point, my wife and I, um, really kind of point, my wife and I, um, really kind of point, my wife and I, um, really kind of went on a journey of both learning how went on a journey of both learning how went on a journey of both learning how to care for her ourselves, but also to care for her ourselves, but also to care for her ourselves, but also thinking through I'm got responsibility thinking through I'm got responsibility thinking through I'm got responsibility for a children's ministry and and soon a for a children's ministry and and soon a for a children's ministry and and soon a family ministry at at our local church.

family ministry at at our local church. family ministry at at our local church. How how do we think about caring for How how do we think about caring for How how do we think about caring for kids with unique needs as a local kids with unique needs as a local kids with unique needs as a local church? And um, I think the most church? And um, I think the most church? And um, I think the most important thing is to listen um, well to important thing is to listen um, well to important thing is to listen um, well to those families. often um those families. often um those families. often um can be a lot of pressure. There's unique can be a lot of pressure. There's unique can be a lot of pressure. There's unique suffering that comes with caretaking um suffering that comes with caretaking um suffering that comes with caretaking um a desire I think especially when you a desire I think especially when you a desire I think especially when you first get a diagnosis to like what can I first get a diagnosis to like what can I first get a diagnosis to like what can I do to fix this and and make sure it it do to fix this and and make sure it it do to fix this and and make sure it it gets better really quick, you know. Um gets better really quick, you know. Um gets better really quick, you know. Um and um even when that's not the and um even when that's not the and um even when that's not the prognosis, you know, even when this is a prognosis, you know, even when this is a prognosis, you know, even when this is a lifelong disability, I think the parents lifelong disability, I think the parents lifelong disability, I think the parents feel can feel that kind of pressure. And feel can feel that kind of pressure. And feel can feel that kind of pressure. And so I think to to draw near and listen to so I think to to draw near and listen to so I think to to draw near and listen to them uh to recognize that the church them uh to recognize that the church them uh to recognize that the church needs to do this for me kind of kind of needs to do this for me kind of kind of needs to do this for me kind of kind of kind of feelings sometimes that that kind of feelings sometimes that that kind of feelings sometimes that that that comes from a place of a lot of that comes from a place of a lot of that comes from a place of a lot of passion and love for their child and and passion and love for their child and and passion and love for their child and and um and they really need care even if you um and they really need care even if you um and they really need care even if you can't provide all of the care in the can't provide all of the care in the can't provide all of the care in the ways they they want they want care. So ways they they want they want care. So ways they they want they want care. So the first thing I think is to listen.

the first thing I think is to listen. the first thing I think is to listen. Each child has different needs. Like Each child has different needs. Like Each child has different needs. Like they really are unique and so the ways they really are unique and so the ways they really are unique and so the ways that you want to adjust and care for that you want to adjust and care for that you want to adjust and care for those children are going to be really those children are going to be really those children are going to be really unique for the child. Like a lot of uh unique for the child. Like a lot of uh unique for the child. Like a lot of uh delayed de development, you can simply delayed de development, you can simply delayed de development, you can simply move a child back an age group or two. move a child back an age group or two. move a child back an age group or two. More severe disabilities require, you More severe disabilities require, you More severe disabilities require, you know, more severe care. There have been know, more severe care. There have been know, more severe care. There have been times when um we've had a nurse attend times when um we've had a nurse attend times when um we've had a nurse attend alongside children in our ministry alongside children in our ministry alongside children in our ministry because of the kind of of care they they because of the kind of of care they they because of the kind of of care they they needed in that context. And there have needed in that context. And there have needed in that context. And there have been um yeah times where we've been able been um yeah times where we've been able been um yeah times where we've been able just to assign a buddy to come alongside just to assign a buddy to come alongside just to assign a buddy to come alongside the child in the ministry and draw them the child in the ministry and draw them the child in the ministry and draw them in. Um, I think it's also really easy in. Um, I think it's also really easy in. Um, I think it's also really easy for parents to feel like they need to for parents to feel like they need to for parents to feel like they need to they need to be the person in charge of they need to be the person in charge of they need to be the person in charge of doing all of these things for their doing all of these things for their doing all of these things for their child. And I think one of the things we child. And I think one of the things we child. And I think one of the things we must do as a church must do as a church must do as a church um is this is a a really a unique um is this is a a really a unique um is this is a a really a unique opportunity as any um experience of opportunity as any um experience of opportunity as any um experience of suffering or experience of weakness is suffering or experience of weakness is suffering or experience of weakness is uh to show to model um just how much uh to show to model um just how much uh to show to model um just how much grace shows us that we need each other.

grace shows us that we need each other. grace shows us that we need each other. And um I I think some of the really And um I I think some of the really And um I I think some of the really beautiful things that happened in in our beautiful things that happened in in our beautiful things that happened in in our family situation is that we found a family situation is that we found a family situation is that we found a group of young women that came to our group of young women that came to our group of young women that came to our house for every weekday afternoon for house for every weekday afternoon for house for every weekday afternoon for like five or 6 years and did like a like five or 6 years and did like a like five or 6 years and did like a behavioral therapy program with with our behavioral therapy program with with our behavioral therapy program with with our daughter. Megan Smithurst was one of daughter. Megan Smithurst was one of daughter. Megan Smithurst was one of those those women who came and and those those women who came and and those those women who came and and served us in our in our home. There was served us in our in our home. There was served us in our in our home. There was a young woman by the name of Kelly who a young woman by the name of Kelly who a young woman by the name of Kelly who who basically kind of who basically kind of who basically kind of launched the ministry at our church for launched the ministry at our church for launched the ministry at our church for the kids with special needs. We learned the kids with special needs. We learned the kids with special needs. We learned how to trust how to trust how to trust um by learning to trust the church in um by learning to trust the church in um by learning to trust the church in some ways uh both the our specific local some ways uh both the our specific local some ways uh both the our specific local church and the broader church. church and the broader church. church and the broader church. >> Um we learned to trust that God uh had a >> Um we learned to trust that God uh had a >> Um we learned to trust that God uh had a care plan for for our child too by care plan for for our child too by care plan for for our child too by seeing his his grace and his love seeing his his grace and his love seeing his his grace and his love through his people. um we began to to through his people. um we began to to through his people. um we began to to see his grace and his love for this um see his grace and his love for this um see his grace and his love for this um this suffering that was in our life as this suffering that was in our life as this suffering that was in our life as well. Um and I think the last thing I well. Um and I think the last thing I well. Um and I think the last thing I would just say is um would just say is um would just say is um that God has uniquely gifted every that God has uniquely gifted every that God has uniquely gifted every member of his body and um and every gift member of his body and um and every gift member of his body and um and every gift is indispensable. Not every um every is indispensable. Not every um every is indispensable. Not every um every child with unique needs is is child with unique needs is is child with unique needs is is necessarily going to be a believer. Um, necessarily going to be a believer. Um, necessarily going to be a believer. Um, but for those who are involved in the but for those who are involved in the but for those who are involved in the community and and have the ability to community and and have the ability to community and and have the ability to serve and give back to the community serve and give back to the community serve and give back to the community too. Not just thinking about how you can

too. Not just thinking about how you can too. Not just thinking about how you can adjust your offerings for that child or adjust your offerings for that child or adjust your offerings for that child or youth, but thinking about how you can youth, but thinking about how you can youth, but thinking about how you can draw uh that child or youth into the draw uh that child or youth into the draw uh that child or youth into the ministry of the church. Maybe that's ministry of the church. Maybe that's ministry of the church. Maybe that's passing out bulletins on Sunday morning, passing out bulletins on Sunday morning, passing out bulletins on Sunday morning, like you know, maybe that's being a a like you know, maybe that's being a a like you know, maybe that's being a a greeter. Maybe that's um you know greeter. Maybe that's um you know greeter. Maybe that's um you know helping uh my child just likes to do helping uh my child just likes to do helping uh my child just likes to do really detailed work and so like just really detailed work and so like just really detailed work and so like just helping sort and organize things that helping sort and organize things that helping sort and organize things that that kind of thing. Um I I think do that kind of thing. Um I I think do that kind of thing. Um I I think do inviting that person to use their gifts inviting that person to use their gifts inviting that person to use their gifts is one of the ways to show uh the way is one of the ways to show uh the way is one of the ways to show uh the way that God has has has dignified them as a that God has has has dignified them as a that God has has has dignified them as a unique individual and yeah the way that unique individual and yeah the way that unique individual and yeah the way that the Lord builds his church often in ways the Lord builds his church often in ways the Lord builds his church often in ways that are surprising that we're and that are surprising that we're and that are surprising that we're and unexpected for us as well. unexpected for us as well. unexpected for us as well. I'd throw in as a resource Matt. Um I'd throw in as a resource Matt. Um I'd throw in as a resource Matt. Um Stephanie Hubach has has written a book Stephanie Hubach has has written a book Stephanie Hubach has has written a book called Same Lake Different called Same Lake Different called Same Lake Different >> different boat >> different boat >> different boat >> boat. Yeah. Where she sort of addresses >> boat. Yeah. Where she sort of addresses >> boat. Yeah. Where she sort of addresses some of these things and she's also some of these things and she's also some of these things and she's also written a book called Abiding in God's written a book called Abiding in God's written a book called Abiding in God's Presence about parenting and Presence about parenting and Presence about parenting and disabilities. And uh there's some disabilities. And uh there's some disabilities. And uh there's some resources there. Also, Ashley Bellnap uh resources there. Also, Ashley Bellnap uh resources there. Also, Ashley Bellnap uh is the executive director of Engaging is the executive director of Engaging is the executive director of Engaging Disabilities that has some gospel center Disabilities that has some gospel center Disabilities that has some gospel center resource gospel- centered resources for resource gospel- centered resources for resource gospel- centered resources for local churches that are trying to help local churches that are trying to help local churches that are trying to help support parents in the congregation and support parents in the congregation and support parents in the congregation and then help the congregation support uh then help the congregation support uh then help the congregation support uh those parents and uh young people in the those parents and uh young people in the those parents and uh young people in the congregation with special needs as well

congregation with special needs as well congregation with special needs as well as other types of disabilities. as other types of disabilities. as other types of disabilities. >> I' I'd name two more. Uh there's a new >> I' I'd name two more. Uh there's a new >> I' I'd name two more. Uh there's a new book coming out with Crossway this book coming out with Crossway this book coming out with Crossway this summer called Accessible Church by summer called Accessible Church by summer called Accessible Church by Sandra Peoples. And she's uh with the Sandra Peoples. And she's uh with the Sandra Peoples. And she's uh with the Southern Baptist of Texas Convention. Um Southern Baptist of Texas Convention. Um Southern Baptist of Texas Convention. Um and has has led a lot of uh help with and has has led a lot of uh help with and has has led a lot of uh help with that convention with special needs that convention with special needs that convention with special needs ministry for many years. And then the ministry for many years. And then the ministry for many years. And then the other um the other resource I would name other um the other resource I would name other um the other resource I would name is See Jesus Ministries, Paul Miller's is See Jesus Ministries, Paul Miller's is See Jesus Ministries, Paul Miller's ministry. Um, uh, Paul has a daughter ministry. Um, uh, Paul has a daughter ministry. Um, uh, Paul has a daughter probably decade older than mine with a probably decade older than mine with a probably decade older than mine with a very similar disability and the very similar disability and the very similar disability and the curriculum they've developed for young curriculum they've developed for young curriculum they've developed for young young people with disabilities as well. young people with disabilities as well. young people with disabilities as well. It's just really wonderful. It's just really wonderful. It's just really wonderful. >> And I'll just while we're at it, add one >> And I'll just while we're at it, add one >> And I'll just while we're at it, add one more. Um, Andrew Wilson, wonderful more. Um, Andrew Wilson, wonderful more. Um, Andrew Wilson, wonderful writer. We commend a lot of his books. writer. We commend a lot of his books. writer. We commend a lot of his books. He and his wife Rachel wrote The Life We He and his wife Rachel wrote The Life We He and his wife Rachel wrote The Life We Never Expected: Hopeful Reflections on Never Expected: Hopeful Reflections on Never Expected: Hopeful Reflections on the Challenges of Parenting Children the Challenges of Parenting Children the Challenges of Parenting Children with Special Needs. Well, as we wrap up with Special Needs. Well, as we wrap up with Special Needs. Well, as we wrap up this episode, I I'm reminded of this episode, I I'm reminded of this episode, I I'm reminded of something John Newton said in one of his something John Newton said in one of his something John Newton said in one of his letters. Just a simple passing letters. Just a simple passing letters. Just a simple passing observation that Satan hates seeing any observation that Satan hates seeing any observation that Satan hates seeing any persons, but especially young persons persons, but especially young persons persons, but especially young persons walking closely with God.

walking closely with God. walking closely with God. >> And to that end, we want to pray that >> And to that end, we want to pray that >> And to that end, we want to pray that our churches would be places that Satan our churches would be places that Satan our churches would be places that Satan hates because there's all kinds of young hates because there's all kinds of young hates because there's all kinds of young people walking closely with God in that people walking closely with God in that people walking closely with God in that greenhouse. uh that the local church can greenhouse. uh that the local church can greenhouse. uh that the local church can be at its very best as we create an be at its very best as we create an be at its very best as we create an environment for children to learn the environment for children to learn the environment for children to learn the things of God and to see the beauty of things of God and to see the beauty of things of God and to see the beauty of the gospel embodied in a congregation of the gospel embodied in a congregation of the gospel embodied in a congregation of people who love them well. people who love them well. people who love them well. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Thank you for listening to this episode >> Thank you for listening to this episode >> Thank you for listening to this episode of the Everyday Pastor. We hope it's of the Everyday Pastor. We hope it's of the Everyday Pastor. We hope it's been helpful to you. Uh we'll probably been helpful to you. Uh we'll probably been helpful to you. Uh we'll probably at some point do a part two on children at some point do a part two on children at some point do a part two on children in youth ministry because it's such a in youth ministry because it's such a in youth ministry because it's such a huge topic. So feel free to leave a huge topic. So feel free to leave a huge topic. So feel free to leave a comment or uh send us some feedback at comment or uh send us some feedback at comment or uh send us some feedback at tgc.org/ everyydaypastor so we can know tgc.org/ everyydaypastor so we can know tgc.org/ everyydaypastor so we can know what would help you better minister to what would help you better minister to what would help you better minister to the youth and children's leaders in your the youth and children's leaders in your the youth and children's leaders in your church.