Bible Q&A with Nancy Guthrie and Jen Wilkin

We're also really grateful for your help We're also really grateful for your help because like Melissa already said, our because like Melissa already said, our because like Melissa already said, our listeners do not hand in light and listeners do not hand in light and listeners do not hand in light and fluffy questions. So, we have brought in fluffy questions. So, we have brought in fluffy questions. So, we have brought in res you know, whenever you get stumped res you know, whenever you get stumped res you know, whenever you get stumped with a question, you just bring in Nancy with a question, you just bring in Nancy with a question, you just bring in Nancy Guthrie. Like that's you know, Guthrie. Like that's you know, Guthrie. Like that's you know, >> of thinking that's what you were doing. >> of thinking that's what you were doing. >> of thinking that's what you were doing. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> That is exactly what we're doing. >> Nancy. You know us [laughter] well. >> Nancy. You know us [laughter] well. >> Nancy. You know us [laughter] well. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. >> Yeah, exactly. Get all this expertise. Well, I want to start with one that came Well, I want to start with one that came Well, I want to start with one that came in in in and I actually this is going to be me and I actually this is going to be me and I actually this is going to be me learning in real time again. How do you learning in real time again. How do you learning in real time again. How do you Here's the question. How do you discern Here's the question. How do you discern Here's the question. How do you discern the difference between conviction from the difference between conviction from the difference between conviction from the spirit and shame? the spirit and shame? the spirit and shame? >> Yeah, well, I appreciate you giving me >> Yeah, well, I appreciate you giving me >> Yeah, well, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity the opportunity the opportunity to think this through and to talk about to think this through and to talk about to think this through and to talk about it. Um it. Um it. Um you know, shame you know, shame you know, shame I in our lives, which is very real, I in our lives, which is very real, I in our lives, which is very real, but I I think it's the accuser's work in but I I think it's the accuser's work in but I I think it's the accuser's work in our life uh our life uh our life uh with a very specific purpose that that with a very specific purpose that that with a very specific purpose that that that the the accuser, the enemy of our that the the accuser, the enemy of our that the the accuser, the enemy of our soul, soul, soul, always has the purpose of alienating us always has the purpose of alienating us always has the purpose of alienating us from Christ from Christ from Christ and paralyzing us in our sin. That's and paralyzing us in our sin. That's and paralyzing us in our sin. That's what he wants to do. Um what he wants to do. Um what he wants to do. Um what does it 1 Peter says that, you what does it 1 Peter says that, you what does it 1 Peter says that, you know, that he's like a lion seeking to know, that he's like a lion seeking to know, that he's like a lion seeking to devour us?

devour us? devour us? And so, I think shame is a way that he And so, I think shame is a way that he And so, I think shame is a way that he devours us because doesn't it fit? I devours us because doesn't it fit? I devours us because doesn't it fit? I mean, that that sense of like shame eats mean, that that sense of like shame eats mean, that that sense of like shame eats you up you up you up from the inside. Um the accuser's voice from the inside. Um the accuser's voice from the inside. Um the accuser's voice is Here's what he says. He says, "You is Here's what he says. He says, "You is Here's what he says. He says, "You should be ashamed of yourself." should be ashamed of yourself." should be ashamed of yourself." >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And the accuser says, "This is who you >> And the accuser says, "This is who you >> And the accuser says, "This is who you are and you can never change." So, are and you can never change." So, are and you can never change." So, there's the voice of shame in our lives. there's the voice of shame in our lives. there's the voice of shame in our lives. But But But the voice of the spirit in our lives the voice of the spirit in our lives the voice of the spirit in our lives is the one that brings conviction and he is the one that brings conviction and he is the one that brings conviction and he also has a purpose. also has a purpose. also has a purpose. His purpose His purpose His purpose is to bring us to confession is to bring us to confession is to bring us to confession and and and to welcome us to welcome us to welcome us into the healing into the healing into the healing that only he can do. So, whereas the that only he can do. So, whereas the that only he can do. So, whereas the the voice of the enemy in our lives the voice of the enemy in our lives the voice of the enemy in our lives uh says you should be ashamed.

uh says you should be ashamed. uh says you should be ashamed. The voice of Christ The voice of Christ The voice of Christ in our lives speaking to us by his in our lives speaking to us by his in our lives speaking to us by his spirit says, I love you too much spirit says, I love you too much spirit says, I love you too much to let you linger in this sin that's to let you linger in this sin that's to let you linger in this sin that's only going to destroy you. And so I I only going to destroy you. And so I I only going to destroy you. And so I I want you to see it and I I want to I want you to see it and I I want to I want you to see it and I I want to I want you to humble yourself and confess want you to humble yourself and confess want you to humble yourself and confess it and then you know what I'm going to it and then you know what I'm going to it and then you know what I'm going to do, I'm going to cleanse you. do, I'm going to cleanse you. do, I'm going to cleanse you. And so And so And so that's the voice of Christ is in the that's the voice of Christ is in the that's the voice of Christ is in the voice of the spirit says, I can provide voice of the spirit says, I can provide voice of the spirit says, I can provide you with supernatural power to change. you with supernatural power to change. you with supernatural power to change. So, this doesn't have to continue So, this doesn't have to continue So, this doesn't have to continue dominating your life. And the voice of dominating your life. And the voice of dominating your life. And the voice of the Father says to us, because you are the Father says to us, because you are the Father says to us, because you are joined to Christ, I want you to know joined to Christ, I want you to know joined to Christ, I want you to know that you are always welcome to come to that you are always welcome to come to that you are always welcome to come to my throne and my throne is a throne of my throne and my throne is a throne of my throne and my throne is a throne of grace. grace. grace. And I give grace and the help needed And I give grace and the help needed And I give grace and the help needed when you need it. when you need it. when you need it. >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were >> Nancy, that's so good. I when you were talking about that paralyzing talking about that paralyzing talking about that paralyzing nature of shame, I had this nature of shame, I had this nature of shame, I had this you know, I was thinking oh like a snake you know, I was thinking oh like a snake you know, I was thinking oh like a snake bites you. And then what we know how is bites you. And then what we know how is bites you. And then what we know how is Satan referred to so often the serpent Satan referred to so often the serpent Satan referred to so often the serpent of old and it's like his words trap us of old and it's like his words trap us of old and it's like his words trap us you know, steal, kill and destroy.

you know, steal, kill and destroy. you know, steal, kill and destroy. That's what he's seeking to do to us and That's what he's seeking to do to us and That's what he's seeking to do to us and put us in jail. Whereas I think of put us in jail. Whereas I think of put us in jail. Whereas I think of Romans where it's like there's no Romans where it's like there's no Romans where it's like there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ condemnation for those who are in Christ condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. It's this freedom for Jesus. It's this freedom for Jesus. It's this freedom for freedom from the past sin but also a freedom from the past sin but also a freedom from the past sin but also a freedom to live a life of righteousness. freedom to live a life of righteousness. freedom to live a life of righteousness. So shame is always going to entrapped. So shame is always going to entrapped. So shame is always going to entrapped. You can't do anything other than this. You can't do anything other than this. You can't do anything other than this. Okay, so the next one this one's really Okay, so the next one this one's really Okay, so the next one this one's really tough. tough. tough. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> How do you seek advice about >> How do you seek advice about >> How do you seek advice about relationships or conflicts relationships or conflicts relationships or conflicts without it being gossip? without it being gossip? without it being gossip? >> Like when I need to come to you about a >> Like when I need to come to you about a >> Like when I need to come to you about a problem with Melissa, how can I talk problem with Melissa, how can I talk problem with Melissa, how can I talk [laughter] to you about it without [laughter] to you about it without [laughter] to you about it without gossiping about her? >> Good question. >> Good question. >> All right. Well, I think the first thing >> All right. Well, I think the first thing >> All right. Well, I think the first thing is is is um um um that you're very selective about that that you're very selective about that that you're very selective about that person that you might want to talk to person that you might want to talk to person that you might want to talk to about it. And so about it. And so about it. And so and and and I think the reality is for most of us we I think the reality is for most of us we I think the reality is for most of us we kind of look for that person that's kind of look for that person that's kind of look for that person that's going like dive in with and going oh my going like dive in with and going oh my going like dive in with and going oh my she is such a jerk.

she is such a jerk. she is such a jerk. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right? I think we >> Right? I think we >> Right? I think we our our flesh that's what our flesh our our flesh that's what our flesh our our flesh that's what our flesh wants. Our flesh wants someone who's wants. Our flesh wants someone who's wants. Our flesh wants someone who's going to go I can't believe she said going to go I can't believe she said going to go I can't believe she said that. I can't believe she did that. And that. I can't believe she did that. And that. I can't believe she did that. And and just kind of feeds our sense of I am and just kind of feeds our sense of I am and just kind of feeds our sense of I am the wronged party and you know so-and-so the wronged party and you know so-and-so the wronged party and you know so-and-so has done has done has done uh wrong by me. And so what we really uh wrong by me. And so what we really uh wrong by me. And so what we really need is to look for that person need is to look for that person need is to look for that person who who's going to be straightforward who who's going to be straightforward who who's going to be straightforward with us about our own part our own with us about our own part our own with us about our own part our own ownership ownership ownership of this issue. of this issue. of this issue. >> Let's gossip about her right now. Who's >> Let's gossip about her right now. Who's >> Let's gossip about her right now. Who's that? that? that? >> honestly yeah. I mean it's >> honestly yeah. I mean it's >> honestly yeah. I mean it's >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Right? I mean so so we're looking for >> Right? I mean so so we're looking for >> Right? I mean so so we're looking for someone who's godly enough to go yes but someone who's godly enough to go yes but someone who's godly enough to go yes but maybe that wasn't what she was going for maybe that wasn't what she was going for maybe that wasn't what she was going for and yes but maybe and yes but maybe and yes but maybe there's this thing about you. You know there's this thing about you. You know there's this thing about you. You know maybe it had to do with the way you maybe it had to do with the way you maybe it had to do with the way you asked or the person who's godly enough asked or the person who's godly enough asked or the person who's godly enough to say yeah but maybe you're jumping to to say yeah but maybe you're jumping to to say yeah but maybe you're jumping to some some some some some some some uh conclusions some uh conclusions some uh conclusions about what about what about what her motive was or her motive was or her motive was or maybe you're ignoring some realities maybe you're ignoring some realities maybe you're ignoring some realities about what she's dealing with and what about what she's dealing with and what about what she's dealing with and what would have prompted her to to respond would have prompted her to to respond would have prompted her to to respond that way or to do that. And so that way or to do that. And so that way or to do that. And so so if honestly, you know, it's not a so if honestly, you know, it's not a so if honestly, you know, it's not a huge number of people in my life. I huge number of people in my life. I huge number of people in my life. I mean, I am blessed with so many godly mean, I am blessed with so many godly mean, I am blessed with so many godly friends. But if we're going to choose friends. But if we're going to choose friends. But if we're going to choose the person to talk through about this the person to talk through about this the person to talk through about this conflict, we really do want to choose

conflict, we really do want to choose conflict, we really do want to choose someone who is spiritually mature enough someone who is spiritually mature enough someone who is spiritually mature enough to recognize that there are always two to recognize that there are always two to recognize that there are always two sides to the story and it's maybe going sides to the story and it's maybe going sides to the story and it's maybe going to force us to look at the other side. to force us to look at the other side. to force us to look at the other side. And also someone who's godly enough that And also someone who's godly enough that And also someone who's godly enough that has the integrity that she's going to has the integrity that she's going to has the integrity that she's going to keep it confidential. keep it confidential. keep it confidential. That it that it really isn't going to That it that it really isn't going to That it that it really isn't going to keep going on. keep going on. keep going on. Um Um Um I I I but even before we maybe you've got that but even before we maybe you've got that but even before we maybe you've got that person, but even before you go, I think person, but even before you go, I think person, but even before you go, I think we do have to examine our motive. Um we do have to examine our motive. Um we do have to examine our motive. Um And honestly, a lot of times I don't And honestly, a lot of times I don't And honestly, a lot of times I don't want to um want to um want to um what I really want to do is vent. what I really want to do is vent. what I really want to do is vent. And what I really want to do is to And what I really want to do is to And what I really want to do is to justify myself. justify myself. justify myself. >> Well, I liked it when you were talking >> Well, I liked it when you were talking >> Well, I liked it when you were talking about that whole didn't like it, but it about that whole didn't like it, but it about that whole didn't like it, but it resonated that whole idea like we try to resonated that whole idea like we try to resonated that whole idea like we try to build teams, right? We try to get build teams, right? We try to get build teams, right? We try to get everybody on our like I'm going to tell everybody on our like I'm going to tell everybody on our like I'm going to tell you the story so that you hear it from you the story so that you hear it from you the story so that you hear it from my side and you know, I build like my my side and you know, I build like my my side and you know, I build like my team of support. But also when you were team of support. But also when you were team of support. But also when you were talking, I thought I want to grow in my talking, I thought I want to grow in my talking, I thought I want to grow in my ability to be the type of friend you're ability to be the type of friend you're ability to be the type of friend you're describing.

describing. describing. So that when my friends come to me, that So that when my friends come to me, that So that when my friends come to me, that I am that person who doesn't just agree I am that person who doesn't just agree I am that person who doesn't just agree with everything and and and really even with everything and and and really even with everything and and and really even grow and promote just the bitterness and grow and promote just the bitterness and grow and promote just the bitterness and and arrogance and all of the things you and arrogance and all of the things you and arrogance and all of the things you mentioned in their own heart, but mentioned in their own heart, but mentioned in their own heart, but actually comes alongside and says like actually comes alongside and says like actually comes alongside and says like let's let's look at this in an let's let's look at this in an let's let's look at this in an open-handed way and so to open-handed way and so to open-handed way and so to >> Let's let's try to assume the best of >> Let's let's try to assume the best of >> Let's let's try to assume the best of someone else together. someone else together. someone else together. Together. Together. Together. Yeah, I I thought that was really yeah, Yeah, I I thought that was really yeah, Yeah, I I thought that was really yeah, really helpful and convicting and I want really helpful and convicting and I want really helpful and convicting and I want to be that person. Okay, another to be that person. Okay, another to be that person. Okay, another question for you Nancy. question for you Nancy. question for you Nancy. Um somebody sent in, "What are some Um somebody sent in, "What are some Um somebody sent in, "What are some godly ways to bless and support my godly ways to bless and support my godly ways to bless and support my husband who doesn't express affection husband who doesn't express affection husband who doesn't express affection the way I would like?" And you know, we the way I would like?" And you know, we the way I would like?" And you know, we had an entire episode where uh Melissa had an entire episode where uh Melissa had an entire episode where uh Melissa interviewed um Anne Wilson on when you interviewed um Anne Wilson on when you interviewed um Anne Wilson on when you want to change your husband. So, we'd want to change your husband. So, we'd want to change your husband. So, we'd refer people back to that too. But what refer people back to that too. But what refer people back to that too. But what what would you say? what would you say? what would you say? >> It's a tough one, isn't it? Because we >> It's a tough one, isn't it? Because we >> It's a tough one, isn't it? Because we are so hungry for affection.

are so hungry for affection. are so hungry for affection. And we can be so demanding that it's And we can be so demanding that it's And we can be so demanding that it's delivered to us delivered to us delivered to us in the form in which we want it. So, in the form in which we want it. So, in the form in which we want it. So, um um um I I think a couple of thoughts. First of I I think a couple of thoughts. First of I I think a couple of thoughts. First of all, I think we have to be ready to give all, I think we have to be ready to give all, I think we have to be ready to give generous affirmation when our husbands generous affirmation when our husbands generous affirmation when our husbands do something the way we do enjoy it and do something the way we do enjoy it and do something the way we do enjoy it and the way we hoped the way we hoped the way we hoped it would come to us. And so, it would come to us. And so, it would come to us. And so, and to not even couch it with any and to not even couch it with any and to not even couch it with any criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love criticism, but just to say, "Oh, I love it when you do that. I love it when you it when you do that. I love it when you it when you do that. I love it when you say that." I mean, you know, so for me say that." I mean, you know, so for me say that." I mean, you know, so for me like, you know, I'll be standing in the like, you know, I'll be standing in the like, you know, I'll be standing in the kitchen and David will come and he'll kitchen and David will come and he'll kitchen and David will come and he'll get behind me and put his arms around me get behind me and put his arms around me get behind me and put his arms around me and I want to say, "I love it when you and I want to say, "I love it when you and I want to say, "I love it when you do that." And and I think that helps us do that." And and I think that helps us do that." And and I think that helps us not only not only not only for him to continue to do that one for him to continue to do that one for him to continue to do that one thing. thing. thing. I think that gives our husbands a taste I think that gives our husbands a taste I think that gives our husbands a taste of mhm of mhm of mhm I boy, it feels good I boy, it feels good I boy, it feels good to have given my wife some joy and some to have given my wife some joy and some to have given my wife some joy and some pleasure. And so, I think that makes him pleasure. And so, I think that makes him pleasure. And so, I think that makes him want to do some other things maybe that want to do some other things maybe that want to do some other things maybe that we're really hoping he will do.

we're really hoping he will do. we're really hoping he will do. >> That's so true and so fun. We have >> That's so true and so fun. We have >> That's so true and so fun. We have another guest on here now. another guest on here now. another guest on here now. >> Who is >> Who is >> Who is it? Who is it? Who is it? Who is >> Can you not see her? >> Can you not see her? >> Can you not see her? >> Who is it? Yes, I can. >> Who is it? Yes, I can. >> Who is it? Yes, I can. I can. I can. I can. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> We were just talking about Jen. >> We were just talking about Jen. >> We were just talking about Jen. >> her just from the laugh, you know? >> her just from the laugh, you know? >> her just from the laugh, you know? >> But we weren't gossiping. We weren't >> But we weren't gossiping. We weren't >> But we weren't gossiping. We weren't gossiping about Jen, were we? When she gossiping about Jen, were we? When she gossiping about Jen, were we? When she wasn't here. wasn't here. wasn't here. Oh, that's We were not. Nancy wouldn't Oh, that's We were not. Nancy wouldn't Oh, that's We were not. Nancy wouldn't let us. let us. let us. >> Yeah, only nice things. Nancy got the >> Yeah, only nice things. Nancy got the >> Yeah, only nice things. Nancy got the gossip question, [laughter] Jen. gossip question, [laughter] Jen. gossip question, [laughter] Jen. >> How is it there in where you are? >> How is it there in where you are? >> How is it there in where you are? >> It's good. Jeff is bathing all three >> It's good. Jeff is bathing all three >> It's good. Jeff is bathing all three grandchildren right now. I can hear grandchildren right now. I can hear grandchildren right now. I can hear them. I don't know if you'll be able to them. I don't know if you'll be able to them. I don't know if you'll be able to hear them. It sounds like a herd of hear them. It sounds like a herd of hear them. It sounds like a herd of cattle. Yes. cattle. Yes. cattle. Yes. >> talking about how to show affection. I >> talking about how to show affection. I >> talking about how to show affection. I mean, that's a serious way to show mean, that's a serious way to show mean, that's a serious way to show affection to your right? A worthwhile affection to your right? A worthwhile affection to your right? A worthwhile thing. Yeah. thing. Yeah. thing. Yeah. >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and >> I was I was waiting to hop on here and he I texted him like, "I'm not on yet." he I texted him like, "I'm not on yet." he I texted him like, "I'm not on yet." And he goes, "I was stalling up here And he goes, "I was stalling up here And he goes, "I was stalling up here waiting for you to come help me give waiting for you to come help me give waiting for you to come help me give them baths." I was like them baths." I was like them baths." I was like >> That's so funny. Tell him Tell him the >> That's so funny. Tell him Tell him the >> That's so funny. Tell him Tell him the deep dish did not run on that time on deep dish did not run on that time on deep dish did not run on that time on that time frame today. that time frame today. that time frame today. >> He had a birthday party to get to. >> He had a birthday party to get to. >> He had a birthday party to get to. >> mean I have to go away?

>> mean I have to go away? >> mean I have to go away? >> Oh, no. You can You can sit the more the >> Oh, no. You can You can sit the more the >> Oh, no. You can You can sit the more the merrier the party. No. merrier the party. No. merrier the party. No. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> We have We have yet another special >> We have We have yet another special >> We have We have yet another special guest that's going to join us in a guest that's going to join us in a guest that's going to join us in a minute. minute. minute. >> Well, I'm going to let you give Jen your >> Well, I'm going to let you give Jen your >> Well, I'm going to let you give Jen your full attention. But Jen, I'm very happy full attention. But Jen, I'm very happy full attention. But Jen, I'm very happy to see you if to see you if to see you if >> I'm happy to see you, too. I know. >> I'm happy to see you, too. I know. >> I'm happy to see you, too. I know. Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. Y'all are the best. Thanks, Nancy. >> I'll see you guys later. >> I'll see you guys later. >> I'll see you guys later. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Okay. Thanks, friend. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Well, Jen, thanks for popping into our >> Well, Jen, thanks for popping into our >> Well, Jen, thanks for popping into our birthday party. birthday party. birthday party. We're We're pretty excited about this. We're We're pretty excited about this. We're We're pretty excited about this. >> gosh, happy birthday, guys. >> gosh, happy birthday, guys. >> gosh, happy birthday, guys. >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is >> Thanks. Thanks. So, what we're doing is we got the slew of questions from we got the slew of questions from we got the slew of questions from listeners and so we're bringing in our listeners and so we're bringing in our listeners and so we're bringing in our friends to answer them cuz we think you friends to answer them cuz we think you friends to answer them cuz we think you guys will do a better job. So, we're guys will do a better job. So, we're guys will do a better job. So, we're going to We saved all the hard ones for going to We saved all the hard ones for going to We saved all the hard ones for you and and Nancy and for our third you and and Nancy and for our third you and and Nancy and for our third guest who's still a surprise. I know. guest who's still a surprise. I know. guest who's still a surprise. I know. Uh but thanks for being such an integral Uh but thanks for being such an integral Uh but thanks for being such an integral part of the Deep Dish this year. You part of the Deep Dish this year. You part of the Deep Dish this year. You were in our kickoff episodes. You're uh were in our kickoff episodes. You're uh were in our kickoff episodes. You're uh some of the episodes you did on on aging some of the episodes you did on on aging some of the episodes you did on on aging that uh continues to be one that people that uh continues to be one that people that uh continues to be one that people have really it's really resonated and have really it's really resonated and have really it's really resonated and and helped. And so, thanks for just and helped. And so, thanks for just and helped. And so, thanks for just being a part of this with us. Now, what being a part of this with us. Now, what being a part of this with us. Now, what we need to do is get deep dish pizza we need to do is get deep dish pizza we need to do is get deep dish pizza next time we're all together, for sure.

next time we're all together, for sure. next time we're all together, for sure. Okay, so here's one that we want to ask Okay, so here's one that we want to ask Okay, so here's one that we want to ask you for sure. When a passage of you for sure. When a passage of you for sure. When a passage of scripture is confusing, how long do you scripture is confusing, how long do you scripture is confusing, how long do you sit with the tension before or the sit with the tension before or the sit with the tension before or the dissonance, as she would say, before dissonance, as she would say, before dissonance, as she would say, before seeking outside resources or answers? seeking outside resources or answers? seeking outside resources or answers? >> Yeah, uh it's obviously it's going to >> Yeah, uh it's obviously it's going to >> Yeah, uh it's obviously it's going to depend on what kind of question you're depend on what kind of question you're depend on what kind of question you're dealing with, like what genre are you dealing with, like what genre are you dealing with, like what genre are you in? Some of the genres are easier to in? Some of the genres are easier to in? Some of the genres are easier to understand than others, but I would say understand than others, but I would say understand than others, but I would say that the general idea you want to think that the general idea you want to think that the general idea you want to think about is move slowly toward consulting about is move slowly toward consulting about is move slowly toward consulting commentaries. So, the first thing I commentaries. So, the first thing I commentaries. So, the first thing I would do if something is confusing is I would do if something is confusing is I would do if something is confusing is I would read it in several different would read it in several different would read it in several different translations and see if that helps clear translations and see if that helps clear translations and see if that helps clear it up. And then the second thing I would it up. And then the second thing I would it up. And then the second thing I would do is I would ask, wait a minute, has do is I would ask, wait a minute, has do is I would ask, wait a minute, has this been talked about before in the this been talked about before in the this been talked about before in the book that I'm reading? Does it show up book that I'm reading? Does it show up book that I'm reading? Does it show up afterwards in the book that I'm reading? afterwards in the book that I'm reading? afterwards in the book that I'm reading? So, look at the immediate context. And So, look at the immediate context. And So, look at the immediate context. And then ask, you know, wait a minute, does then ask, you know, wait a minute, does then ask, you know, wait a minute, does this show up somewhere in the this show up somewhere in the this show up somewhere in the surrounding books? Does it show up in surrounding books? Does it show up in surrounding books? Does it show up in the Old Testament somewhere else? Those the Old Testament somewhere else? Those the Old Testament somewhere else? Those kinds of things. Um and so, pay a lot of kinds of things. Um and so, pay a lot of kinds of things. Um and so, pay a lot of attention to just what does the Bible attention to just what does the Bible attention to just what does the Bible have to say to help me interpret this have to say to help me interpret this have to say to help me interpret this before you go to a commentary cuz that's before you go to a commentary cuz that's before you go to a commentary cuz that's what a commentator's going to do. And what a commentator's going to do. And what a commentator's going to do. And then when you get to a commentary, then when you get to a commentary, then when you get to a commentary, you'll have a better sense of whether you'll have a better sense of whether you'll have a better sense of whether you are making progress in your own you are making progress in your own you are making progress in your own ability to let the context that's ability to let the context that's ability to let the context that's already there um help you sort through already there um help you sort through already there um help you sort through what something might mean. And also, what something might mean. And also, what something might mean. And also, always keeping in mind those those first always keeping in mind those those first always keeping in mind those those first few diagnostic questions that we start few diagnostic questions that we start few diagnostic questions that we start with with any book of the Bible, the with with any book of the Bible, the with with any book of the Bible, the who, what, when, where, and why. That who, what, when, where, and why. That who, what, when, where, and why. That kind of a thing.

kind of a thing. kind of a thing. >> That's That's good because I what I like >> That's That's good because I what I like >> That's That's good because I what I like about that is I actually like it when I about that is I actually like it when I about that is I actually like it when I have to have that time have to have that time have to have that time where I think and then if you go to the where I think and then if you go to the where I think and then if you go to the commentary and they say what you were commentary and they say what you were commentary and they say what you were thinking, you're like, "Great, I'm not a thinking, you're like, "Great, I'm not a thinking, you're like, "Great, I'm not a heretic." Or you're like, "Uh-oh, my heretic." Or you're like, "Uh-oh, my heretic." Or you're like, "Uh-oh, my thought was original. Maybe I am a thought was original. Maybe I am a thought was original. Maybe I am a heretic." Like I need to go back and heretic." Like I need to go back and heretic." Like I need to go back and >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> rethink things. >> rethink things. >> rethink things. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. So, you know, it's always it's helpful. It's a helpful check because we do It's a helpful check because we do It's a helpful check because we do believe in a historical church. You believe in a historical church. You believe in a historical church. You know, we we do um you know, in a sense know, we we do um you know, in a sense know, we we do um you know, in a sense want to learn collectively from the word want to learn collectively from the word want to learn collectively from the word and from each other, but um that's a and from each other, but um that's a and from each other, but um that's a that's a really helpful helpful way to that's a really helpful helpful way to that's a really helpful helpful way to think through how to do it. Um to think through how to do it. Um to think through how to do it. Um to actually know what we're thinking before actually know what we're thinking before actually know what we're thinking before we go in. Well, here's another easy one we go in. Well, here's another easy one we go in. Well, here's another easy one for you. I have been trying to answer for you. I have been trying to answer for you. I have been trying to answer this question for probably 25 years cuz this question for probably 25 years cuz this question for probably 25 years cuz that's how old Emma is. So, I've been that's how old Emma is. So, I've been that's how old Emma is. So, I've been trying to answer in my own head for a trying to answer in my own head for a trying to answer in my own head for a long time. How can parents with young long time. How can parents with young long time. How can parents with young children take a Sabbath day? children take a Sabbath day? children take a Sabbath day? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Tell us.

>> This is so timely because actually, you >> This is so timely because actually, you know, Jeff and I are here with these know, Jeff and I are here with these know, Jeff and I are here with these small children and I'm thinking, "Do we small children and I'm thinking, "Do we small children and I'm thinking, "Do we get to go to bed at any point?" get to go to bed at any point?" get to go to bed at any point?" Um you forget pretty quickly just how Um you forget pretty quickly just how Um you forget pretty quickly just how much energy goes into taking care of much energy goes into taking care of much energy goes into taking care of little children. Um so anyway, just for little children. Um so anyway, just for little children. Um so anyway, just for those who are going to hear my response, those who are going to hear my response, those who are going to hear my response, just know that I'm actually living the just know that I'm actually living the just know that I'm actually living the dream with you right now um in in this dream with you right now um in in this dream with you right now um in in this very moment as we're doing this very moment as we're doing this very moment as we're doing this interview. So, um I think that when we interview. So, um I think that when we interview. So, um I think that when we think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm think about Sabbath, first of all, I'm in some some of the same way that I in some some of the same way that I in some some of the same way that I answered the previous question, um do answered the previous question, um do answered the previous question, um do you have a heart turned toward Sabbath? you have a heart turned toward Sabbath? you have a heart turned toward Sabbath? In other words, does it just feel like, In other words, does it just feel like, In other words, does it just feel like, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, "Oh, I'm just too busy." Or is it, "No, I really I want to be able to Sabbath um I really I want to be able to Sabbath um I really I want to be able to Sabbath um as a family as a family as a family um and keeping in mind that Sabbath is um and keeping in mind that Sabbath is um and keeping in mind that Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is not just taking a nap, right? Sabbath is an opportunity to um experience the an opportunity to um experience the an opportunity to um experience the goodness of God together goodness of God together goodness of God together um through the cessation of typical um through the cessation of typical um through the cessation of typical daily activities for the purpose of ones daily activities for the purpose of ones daily activities for the purpose of ones that are perhaps more focused on that are perhaps more focused on that are perhaps more focused on relationship building and tend toward relationship building and tend toward relationship building and tend toward worship. And so, I tend to think of it worship. And so, I tend to think of it worship. And so, I tend to think of it more like more like more like even when I had small children, if I had even when I had small children, if I had even when I had small children, if I had a house guest coming to stay, I prepared a house guest coming to stay, I prepared a house guest coming to stay, I prepared ahead for that house guest because I ahead for that house guest because I ahead for that house guest because I wanted to be able to give them my full wanted to be able to give them my full wanted to be able to give them my full attention in so much as I had full attention in so much as I had full attention in so much as I had full attention to give with small children attention to give with small children attention to give with small children when they were actually there. So, I when they were actually there. So, I when they were actually there. So, I thought ahead about how can I make sure thought ahead about how can I make sure thought ahead about how can I make sure that meals are going to take little as that meals are going to take little as that meals are going to take little as little effort as possible when the little effort as possible when the little effort as possible when the person is here, but they're still going person is here, but they're still going person is here, but they're still going to be delicious and an enjoyable time to be delicious and an enjoyable time to be delicious and an enjoyable time together. Um how do I think about together. Um how do I think about together. Um how do I think about activities that we can do with this activities that we can do with this activities that we can do with this person that will be enjoyable that

person that will be enjoyable that person that will be enjoyable that aren't going to require so much effort aren't going to require so much effort aren't going to require so much effort that we can't actually all enter in or that we can't actually all enter in or that we can't actually all enter in or if I'm going to be distracted during all if I'm going to be distracted during all if I'm going to be distracted during all of that. And so, I think thinking about of that. And so, I think thinking about of that. And so, I think thinking about Sabbath is is a similar practice where Sabbath is is a similar practice where Sabbath is is a similar practice where where in in a sense inviting the Lord as where in in a sense inviting the Lord as where in in a sense inviting the Lord as our table guest our table guest our table guest on that day. And then that means that we on that day. And then that means that we on that day. And then that means that we are going to do some work before Sabbath are going to do some work before Sabbath are going to do some work before Sabbath so that we don't work on the Sabbath. so that we don't work on the Sabbath. so that we don't work on the Sabbath. And so, that's and that's an Old And so, that's and that's an Old And so, that's and that's an Old Testament principle. They collected more Testament principle. They collected more Testament principle. They collected more mana the day before mana the day before mana the day before the seventh day so that they wouldn't the seventh day so that they wouldn't the seventh day so that they wouldn't have to go out and collect on that day. have to go out and collect on that day. have to go out and collect on that day. But on top of all of this, what I want But on top of all of this, what I want But on top of all of this, what I want young parents to hear me say is just do young parents to hear me say is just do young parents to hear me say is just do what you can. Set your heart on the what you can. Set your heart on the what you can. Set your heart on the right principle and then over time watch right principle and then over time watch right principle and then over time watch how it becomes more and more a regular how it becomes more and more a regular how it becomes more and more a regular rhythm as your children get older. The rhythm as your children get older. The rhythm as your children get older. The Lord I always say this with quiet time Lord I always say this with quiet time Lord I always say this with quiet time practices, with Bible study practices, practices, with Bible study practices, practices, with Bible study practices, the Lord knows your stage of life better the Lord knows your stage of life better the Lord knows your stage of life better than you do. than you do. than you do. And he knows your heart. So, honor him And he knows your heart. So, honor him And he knows your heart. So, honor him in your heart and as far as you're able in your heart and as far as you're able in your heart and as far as you're able in your practices so that you have a in your practices so that you have a in your practices so that you have a trajectory even if you don't have an trajectory even if you don't have an trajectory even if you don't have an immediate, you know, "Hey everyone, I'm immediate, you know, "Hey everyone, I'm immediate, you know, "Hey everyone, I'm going to Instagram this Sabbath that was going to Instagram this Sabbath that was going to Instagram this Sabbath that was so amazing."

so amazing." so amazing." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> with sourdough.