Unity, Diversity, and the Church at Its Best

Good. Hey, welcome to our breakout Good. Hey, welcome to our breakout session about beautiful diversity. So, session about beautiful diversity. So, session about beautiful diversity. So, we are so glad that uh you're here. This we are so glad that uh you're here. This we are so glad that uh you're here. This is a really, really important topic. One is a really, really important topic. One is a really, really important topic. One that all four of us are passionate about that all four of us are passionate about that all four of us are passionate about coming at the subject from uh different coming at the subject from uh different coming at the subject from uh different cities, different denominations, cities, different denominations, cities, different denominations, different experiences, different experiences, different experiences, and yet we have one Lord, one faith, one and yet we have one Lord, one faith, one and yet we have one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one mission to try and help baptism, and one mission to try and help baptism, and one mission to try and help the church of Jesus Christ look a little the church of Jesus Christ look a little the church of Jesus Christ look a little more like heaven like right now. So, we more like heaven like right now. So, we more like heaven like right now. So, we are really grateful that you would like are really grateful that you would like are really grateful that you would like to just uh be a part of this uh to just uh be a part of this uh to just uh be a part of this uh conversation. And we hope that our time conversation. And we hope that our time conversation. And we hope that our time here uh together uh with with you will here uh together uh with with you will here uh together uh with with you will be um helpful and instructive. Hope be um helpful and instructive. Hope be um helpful and instructive. Hope you'll leave encouraged. I hope um you'll leave encouraged. I hope um you'll leave encouraged. I hope um you'll leave with some uh new questions. you'll leave with some uh new questions. you'll leave with some uh new questions. Sometimes in life, it's not that you Sometimes in life, it's not that you Sometimes in life, it's not that you have better answers, but you just have have better answers, but you just have have better answers, but you just have better questions. Uh or in some cases, better questions. Uh or in some cases, better questions. Uh or in some cases, it's like, "Oh, okay. So, I They They're it's like, "Oh, okay. So, I They They're it's like, "Oh, okay. So, I They They're They're wrestling with some of the same They're wrestling with some of the same They're wrestling with some of the same issues. So, I'm going to just kind of uh issues. So, I'm going to just kind of uh issues. So, I'm going to just kind of uh persevere and and and continue on in the persevere and and and continue on in the persevere and and and continue on in the good work that um that you're doing. Or good work that um that you're doing. Or good work that um that you're doing. Or perhaps you have uh particular questions perhaps you have uh particular questions perhaps you have uh particular questions that you're wrestling through that maybe that you're wrestling through that maybe that you're wrestling through that maybe will give you some level of clarity to will give you some level of clarity to will give you some level of clarity to uh today. So, we hope to be helpful to uh today. So, we hope to be helpful to uh today. So, we hope to be helpful to you. That's what our our goal is. So, you. That's what our our goal is. So, you. That's what our our goal is. So, one of the things that I love about one of the things that I love about one of the things that I love about panels is an opportunity to dig into panels is an opportunity to dig into panels is an opportunity to dig into things a little bit deeper. And so, things a little bit deeper. And so, things a little bit deeper. And so, we've had a uh pre-meeting just to talk we've had a uh pre-meeting just to talk we've had a uh pre-meeting just to talk about where we think this conversation about where we think this conversation about where we think this conversation is going to go. At the same time, um I'm is going to go. At the same time, um I'm is going to go. At the same time, um I'm the moderator and I can decide where it the moderator and I can decide where it the moderator and I can decide where it goes. Uh so, it's going to be fun and goes. Uh so, it's going to be fun and goes. Uh so, it's going to be fun and enjoyable. And that just scared all of enjoyable. And that just scared all of enjoyable. And that just scared all of them because uh we have a game plan, but them because uh we have a game plan, but them because uh we have a game plan, but we're going to see if we call some

we're going to see if we call some we're going to see if we call some audibles. So, audibles. So, audibles. So, uh let me pray and then I'll do some uh let me pray and then I'll do some uh let me pray and then I'll do some introductions. God, we thank you for introductions. God, we thank you for introductions. God, we thank you for the opportunity that we have to think the opportunity that we have to think the opportunity that we have to think and uh talk and dream about um a and uh talk and dream about um a and uh talk and dream about um a biblical vision of um what diversity biblical vision of um what diversity biblical vision of um what diversity looks like in the body of Christ. We looks like in the body of Christ. We looks like in the body of Christ. We all want to recognize that all want to recognize that all want to recognize that forever forever forever uh this has been a challenge. And it's uh this has been a challenge. And it's uh this has been a challenge. And it's just part of the brokenness of our just part of the brokenness of our just part of the brokenness of our humanity. It's a challenge in our humanity. It's a challenge in our humanity. It's a challenge in our present day and so we just want this present day and so we just want this present day and so we just want this conversation to be helpful to help conversation to be helpful to help conversation to be helpful to help advance advance advance conversations for us to think in ways conversations for us to think in ways conversations for us to think in ways that would be edifying and so we pray that would be edifying and so we pray that would be edifying and so we pray you help us to be biblical, help us to you help us to be biblical, help us to you help us to be biblical, help us to be contextual, help us to be thoughtful. be contextual, help us to be thoughtful. be contextual, help us to be thoughtful. We want to help the local church. So we We want to help the local church. So we We want to help the local church. So we pray that you would guide and direct our pray that you would guide and direct our pray that you would guide and direct our conversation today in Jesus' name. Amen. conversation today in Jesus' name. Amen. conversation today in Jesus' name. Amen. Let me start with introductions and Let me start with introductions and Let me start with introductions and we'll start down here at the end. So we'll start down here at the end. So we'll start down here at the end. So Michael, why don't you introduce Michael, why don't you introduce Michael, why don't you introduce yourself, explain a little bit about who yourself, explain a little bit about who yourself, explain a little bit about who you are, where you serve, etc. etc. All you are, where you serve, etc. etc. All you are, where you serve, etc. etc. All right. My name is right. My name is right. My name is My name is Michael Hedgeson. I'm the My name is Michael Hedgeson. I'm the My name is Michael Hedgeson. I'm the planting and now senior pastor of Christ planting and now senior pastor of Christ planting and now senior pastor of Christ United Fellowship in South Downtown United Fellowship in South Downtown United Fellowship in South Downtown Orlando. We are a congregation of the Orlando. We are a congregation of the Orlando. We are a congregation of the PCA. We are what you would consider an PCA. We are what you would consider an PCA. We are what you would consider an atypical Presbyterian church. We are We atypical Presbyterian church. We are We atypical Presbyterian church. We are We clap our hands.

All right. And all my Presbyterians said All right. And all my Presbyterians said Amen. And we're multi-ethnic, cross-cultural, And we're multi-ethnic, cross-cultural, diverse in many respects. diverse in many respects. diverse in many respects. George Robertson George Robertson George Robertson pastor Second Presbyterian Church in pastor Second Presbyterian Church in pastor Second Presbyterian Church in Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis, Tennessee. Memphis, Tennessee. We're in the Evangelical Presbyterian We're in the Evangelical Presbyterian We're in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. We lift our hands and kneel. And And we are pressing toward diversity. we are pressing toward diversity. we are pressing toward diversity. My name is Irwin Ens and I serve as the My name is Irwin Ens and I serve as the My name is Irwin Ens and I serve as the coordinator of Mission to North America coordinator of Mission to North America coordinator of Mission to North America for the Presbyterian Church in America. for the Presbyterian Church in America. for the Presbyterian Church in America. MNA is the domestic missions arm MNA is the domestic missions arm MNA is the domestic missions arm for the PCA church planting, outreach, for the PCA church planting, outreach, for the PCA church planting, outreach, mercy, helping our churches in that mercy, helping our churches in that mercy, helping our churches in that regard. I served for many years as a regard. I served for many years as a regard. I served for many years as a pastor, church planter of City of Hope pastor, church planter of City of Hope pastor, church planter of City of Hope Presbyterian Church Presbyterian Church Presbyterian Church in Columbia, Maryland, cross-cultural, in Columbia, Maryland, cross-cultural, in Columbia, Maryland, cross-cultural, multi-ethnic multi-ethnic multi-ethnic church in that in that community and I church in that in that community and I church in that in that community and I now live in Washington D.C.

now live in Washington D.C. now live in Washington D.C. And I'm Mark Vroegop, the new president And I'm Mark Vroegop, the new president And I'm Mark Vroegop, the new president of The Gospel Coalition and I am not of The Gospel Coalition and I am not of The Gospel Coalition and I am not Presbyterian. So, I'm the lone token Presbyterian. So, I'm the lone token Presbyterian. So, I'm the lone token non-Presbyterian up here. In fact, I'm non-Presbyterian up here. In fact, I'm non-Presbyterian up here. In fact, I'm not any I'm non-denominational which not any I'm non-denominational which not any I'm non-denominational which means I just love everybody is what I means I just love everybody is what I means I just love everybody is what I mean. mean. mean. It means we don't know who we are. No, It means we don't know who we are. No, It means we don't know who we are. No, what actually means we get to pick and what actually means we get to pick and what actually means we get to pick and choose the best of both traditions. So, choose the best of both traditions. So, choose the best of both traditions. So, whenever it's most convenient for us. whenever it's most convenient for us. whenever it's most convenient for us. So, So, So, and I served for 17 years at College and I served for 17 years at College and I served for 17 years at College Park Church here in Indianapolis. All Park Church here in Indianapolis. All Park Church here in Indianapolis. All kidding aside, I describe ourselves as a kidding aside, I describe ourselves as a kidding aside, I describe ourselves as a baptistic church that was baptistic church that was baptistic church that was congregationally ruled and elder-led and congregationally ruled and elder-led and congregationally ruled and elder-led and it's a real delight to be able to lead it's a real delight to be able to lead it's a real delight to be able to lead this conversation. We've had delightful this conversation. We've had delightful this conversation. We've had delightful just engagement over the last number of just engagement over the last number of just engagement over the last number of years on this subject in a lot of years on this subject in a lot of years on this subject in a lot of different spaces and so it's a real different spaces and so it's a real different spaces and so it's a real delight for us to share delight for us to share delight for us to share this platform. this platform. this platform. What I like to just start is maybe have What I like to just start is maybe have What I like to just start is maybe have each of us just talk a little bit about each of us just talk a little bit about each of us just talk a little bit about what brought you into the conversation what brought you into the conversation what brought you into the conversation about biblical unity in diversity. So, about biblical unity in diversity. So, about biblical unity in diversity. So, what what was the the thing, the moment, what what was the the thing, the moment, what what was the the thing, the moment, the situation, the story, your life, the situation, the story, your life, the situation, the story, your life, like what what was it that like what what was it that like what what was it that called you to be now on this called you to be now on this called you to be now on this platform? So, Erwin, we'll start with platform? So, Erwin, we'll start with platform? So, Erwin, we'll start with you and then we'll just go down here and you and then we'll just go down here and you and then we'll just go down here and come back. Yeah, I come back. Yeah, I come back. Yeah, I love the fact that God writes our love the fact that God writes our love the fact that God writes our stories and brings us to particular stories and brings us to particular stories and brings us to particular points of passion points of passion points of passion in the work of ministry. My background

in the work of ministry. My background in the work of ministry. My background is I grew up in a Christian home is I grew up in a Christian home is I grew up in a Christian home from Brooklyn, New York, from Brooklyn, New York, from Brooklyn, New York, rejected the faith as a teenager and rejected the faith as a teenager and rejected the faith as a teenager and then when I got to college those were then when I got to college those were then when I got to college those were what I call my radical black nationalist what I call my radical black nationalist what I call my radical black nationalist days. I days. I days. I at the at the at the the time it was called the Afrocentric the time it was called the Afrocentric the time it was called the Afrocentric movement. movement. movement. I during those years I during those years I during those years had a strong rejection of the Christian had a strong rejection of the Christian had a strong rejection of the Christian faith. I viewed it as the white man's faith. I viewed it as the white man's faith. I viewed it as the white man's religion, a tool that was used to religion, a tool that was used to religion, a tool that was used to oppress and enslave people of African oppress and enslave people of African oppress and enslave people of African descent. And so descent. And so descent. And so as a part of this story, you know, the as a part of this story, you know, the as a part of this story, you know, the amazing thing is I like to say God amazing thing is I like to say God amazing thing is I like to say God ultimately rejected my rejection of him. ultimately rejected my rejection of him. ultimately rejected my rejection of him. And And And and brought me to faith in a historic and brought me to faith in a historic and brought me to faith in a historic African-American African-American African-American Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. But Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. But Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. But what happened is now I'm looking at the what happened is now I'm looking at the what happened is now I'm looking at the scriptures through the lens of faith and scriptures through the lens of faith and scriptures through the lens of faith and I am seeing this language that the I am seeing this language that the I am seeing this language that the scriptures, familiar language the Bible scriptures, familiar language the Bible scriptures, familiar language the Bible uses to describe God's people and this uses to describe God's people and this uses to describe God's people and this seeming expectation seeming expectation seeming expectation that in the context of the local church that in the context of the local church that in the context of the local church you find these people from all manner of you find these people from all manner of you find these people from all manner of life and cultures and nationalities and life and cultures and nationalities and life and cultures and nationalities and I just stopped and I said, "Wait, well, I just stopped and I said, "Wait, well, I just stopped and I said, "Wait, well, you know, I go to church and I said and you know, I go to church and I said and you know, I go to church and I said and literally everybody's black."

literally everybody's black." literally everybody's black." There's not a non-black person in the There's not a non-black person in the There's not a non-black person in the place. place. place. And there's a church over there and And there's a church over there and And there's a church over there and everybody's white over there. everybody's white over there. everybody's white over there. Everybody's Asian over there. I see Everybody's Asian over there. I see Everybody's Asian over there. I see these divides and and so that put in my these divides and and so that put in my these divides and and so that put in my own heart what I call a divine own heart what I call a divine own heart what I call a divine dissatisfaction dissatisfaction dissatisfaction with the mono-ness of most churches in with the mono-ness of most churches in with the mono-ness of most churches in in the US context and I know there in the US context and I know there in the US context and I know there historical reasons for it, but it put historical reasons for it, but it put historical reasons for it, but it put this burden on my heart to say I I this burden on my heart to say I I this burden on my heart to say I I cannot be content in pursuing ministry cannot be content in pursuing ministry cannot be content in pursuing ministry unless I'm pursuing it with an ethos of unless I'm pursuing it with an ethos of unless I'm pursuing it with an ethos of an indiscriminate love of neighbor an indiscriminate love of neighbor an indiscriminate love of neighbor across lines of deep difference in Jesus across lines of deep difference in Jesus across lines of deep difference in Jesus name. So. Good. George. I I reflecting on Ken reflecting on Ken reflecting on Ken Boa's powerful sermon last night, Boa's powerful sermon last night, Boa's powerful sermon last night, there's nothing and there's nothing and there's nothing and all the sermons from from Ephesians, all the sermons from from Ephesians, all the sermons from from Ephesians, there's nothing to boast about of why there's nothing to boast about of why there's nothing to boast about of why I'm here.

I'm here. I'm here. Uh it's all been gospel because my Uh it's all been gospel because my Uh it's all been gospel because my biography would militate against any biography would militate against any biography would militate against any sensitivity. sensitivity. sensitivity. I grew up in a a deeply southern I grew up in a a deeply southern I grew up in a a deeply southern uh town, small town in North Alabama, uh town, small town in North Alabama, uh town, small town in North Alabama, which was which was which was the international headquarters of the Ku the international headquarters of the Ku the international headquarters of the Ku Klux Klan. Klux Klan. Klux Klan. Uh Uh Uh and I I grew up in that soup and I I grew up in that soup and I I grew up in that soup of uh segregation and and racism. of uh segregation and and racism. of uh segregation and and racism. I I I but but God but but God but but God uh uh uh saved me when I was in uh middle school, saved me when I was in uh middle school, saved me when I was in uh middle school, I began to receive good discipleship. I I began to receive good discipleship. I I began to receive good discipleship. I went on to went on to went on to a Christian college, Covenant College, a Christian college, Covenant College, a Christian college, Covenant College, heard more heard more heard more of the the social entailments of the the social entailments of the the social entailments of justification by faith. Uh of justification by faith. Uh of justification by faith. Uh and uh then went on to Covenant Seminary and uh then went on to Covenant Seminary and uh then went on to Covenant Seminary and continued to get that kind of and continued to get that kind of and continued to get that kind of discipleship, but the real turning point discipleship, but the real turning point discipleship, but the real turning point for me came all along for me came all along for me came all along God exposing my blind spots and God exposing my blind spots and God exposing my blind spots and deepening my understanding of what it deepening my understanding of what it deepening my understanding of what it meant for human being to be made in the meant for human being to be made in the meant for human being to be made in the image of God and every human being to be image of God and every human being to be image of God and every human being to be so.

so. so. I was on faculty at uh seminary. I was I was on faculty at uh seminary. I was I was on faculty at uh seminary. I was pastoring a church as well. pastoring a church as well. pastoring a church as well. And it was a commencement service. And it was a commencement service. And it was a commencement service. A man named Jonathan Saeda, A man named Jonathan Saeda, A man named Jonathan Saeda, Hispanic uh Hispanic uh Hispanic uh pastor, PCA pastor, pastor, PCA pastor, pastor, PCA pastor, uh uh uh uh uh uh in Dover, Delaware, which is not known in Dover, Delaware, which is not known in Dover, Delaware, which is not known for its diversity, for its diversity, for its diversity, but uh he was convicted that to be a New but uh he was convicted that to be a New but uh he was convicted that to be a New Testament church, you Testament church, you Testament church, you you needed to pray for, work toward you needed to pray for, work toward you needed to pray for, work toward multi-ethnicity. multi-ethnicity. multi-ethnicity. So, he was he was our commencement So, he was he was our commencement So, he was he was our commencement speaker, and he opened up Ephesians to speaker, and he opened up Ephesians to speaker, and he opened up Ephesians to me. me. me. When he started at the end and said, When he started at the end and said, When he started at the end and said, "For this This is why I'm in chains "For this This is why I'm in chains "For this This is why I'm in chains for the mystery of the gospel." for the mystery of the gospel." for the mystery of the gospel." And then he went to chapter 3, verse 6. And then he went to chapter 3, verse 6. And then he went to chapter 3, verse 6. What is the mystery of the gospel? That What is the mystery of the gospel? That What is the mystery of the gospel? That the Gentiles will be heirs with the the Gentiles will be heirs with the the Gentiles will be heirs with the Jews. Jews. Jews. And why was Paul in prison? And why was Paul in prison? And why was Paul in prison? It for that gospel in particular. Went It for that gospel in particular. Went It for that gospel in particular. Went to Acts 22.

to Acts 22. to Acts 22. Everything was going fine with that Everything was going fine with that Everything was going fine with that sermon in Acts 22, that testimony, until sermon in Acts 22, that testimony, until sermon in Acts 22, that testimony, until he said, "He sent me to the Gentiles far he said, "He sent me to the Gentiles far he said, "He sent me to the Gentiles far away." away." away." And And And uh he said, uh he said, uh he said, "Ephesians is an apologetic "Ephesians is an apologetic "Ephesians is an apologetic for this mysterious power of the gospel, for this mysterious power of the gospel, for this mysterious power of the gospel, the manifold wisdom of God being the manifold wisdom of God being the manifold wisdom of God being displayed in the church." And displayed in the church." And displayed in the church." And I felt so embarrassed that I must be the I felt so embarrassed that I must be the I felt so embarrassed that I must be the only only only member of the faculty who'd never known member of the faculty who'd never known member of the faculty who'd never known the message of Ephesians before. I knew the message of Ephesians before. I knew the message of Ephesians before. I knew it as a proof text for predestination. it as a proof text for predestination. it as a proof text for predestination. And I'd go there for marriage counseling And I'd go there for marriage counseling And I'd go there for marriage counseling and all those other rich, reformed and all those other rich, reformed and all those other rich, reformed doctrines, which are certainly there, doctrines, which are certainly there, doctrines, which are certainly there, but but but uh uh uh that blew open the whole of scriptures that blew open the whole of scriptures that blew open the whole of scriptures for me, for me, for me, where I could finally understand why God where I could finally understand why God where I could finally understand why God was was was reaching the nations. What What the the reaching the nations. What What the the reaching the nations. What What the the That this was That this was That this was This is the objective demonstration of This is the objective demonstration of This is the objective demonstration of the reconciling power of the gospel.

the reconciling power of the gospel. the reconciling power of the gospel. And it's uh and so I went back to my And it's uh and so I went back to my And it's uh and so I went back to my congregation, congregation, congregation, my church, which was in an area of St. my church, which was in an area of St. my church, which was in an area of St. Louis that was 99.5% Louis that was 99.5% Louis that was 99.5% white. white. white. And And And with my staff, we started praying for with my staff, we started praying for with my staff, we started praying for God to cause us to reflect the God to cause us to reflect the God to cause us to reflect the complexion of heaven. I said, complexion of heaven. I said, complexion of heaven. I said, looking at our demographics, that's looking at our demographics, that's looking at our demographics, that's impossible. impossible. impossible. But I said I am compelled But I said I am compelled But I said I am compelled that this is this is the this is a that this is this is the this is a that this is this is the this is a mission that that we it's an outworking mission that that we it's an outworking mission that that we it's an outworking of the gospel. It's not the gospel. of the gospel. It's not the gospel. of the gospel. It's not the gospel. It's an apologetic for the beauty of the It's an apologetic for the beauty of the It's an apologetic for the beauty of the gospel. And gospel. And gospel. And uh uh uh God God God uh slowly brought uh slowly brought uh slowly brought people of color, African-American people of color, African-American people of color, African-American family, we uh Asian-Americans. family, we uh Asian-Americans. family, we uh Asian-Americans. No no Hispanics before I left, but um No no Hispanics before I left, but um No no Hispanics before I left, but um it's a small taste and then went on from it's a small taste and then went on from it's a small taste and then went on from there to Augusta and now Memphis there to Augusta and now Memphis there to Augusta and now Memphis pursuing that mission.

pursuing that mission. pursuing that mission. Yeah, my journey commenced in Miami, Yeah, my journey commenced in Miami, Yeah, my journey commenced in Miami, Florida, Florida, Florida, uh where I was born to the son of a uh where I was born to the son of a uh where I was born to the son of a Jamaican immigrant and an Jamaican immigrant and an Jamaican immigrant and an African-American woman with roots that African-American woman with roots that African-American woman with roots that are in deep deep deep south. Uh in fact, are in deep deep deep south. Uh in fact, are in deep deep deep south. Uh in fact, a place called Millry, Alabama, and I'd a place called Millry, Alabama, and I'd a place called Millry, Alabama, and I'd be surprised if anybody's ever heard of be surprised if anybody's ever heard of be surprised if anybody's ever heard of it in here. 70 mi north of Mobile, it in here. 70 mi north of Mobile, it in here. 70 mi north of Mobile, uh where my grandparents migrated to uh where my grandparents migrated to uh where my grandparents migrated to Miami probably in the third or fourth Miami probably in the third or fourth Miami probably in the third or fourth great migrations. And so, both sides of great migrations. And so, both sides of great migrations. And so, both sides of my family, rich history as it relates to my family, rich history as it relates to my family, rich history as it relates to the African diaspora in general and all the African diaspora in general and all the African diaspora in general and all the complexities of the complexities of the complexities of coming to and living in coming to coming to and living in coming to coming to and living in coming to America and living in America as a America and living in America as a America and living in America as a minority. I grew up with all the minority. I grew up with all the minority. I grew up with all the stories, good and bad, taught to love stories, good and bad, taught to love stories, good and bad, taught to love everyone, but the struggle was kept very everyone, but the struggle was kept very everyone, but the struggle was kept very closely to me. There's a season in my closely to me. There's a season in my closely to me. There's a season in my life where my father went through a life where my father went through a life where my father went through a journey with uh Black Islam, so we uh I journey with uh Black Islam, so we uh I journey with uh Black Islam, so we uh I paid close attention to paid close attention to paid close attention to uh Louis Farrakhan, Minister Louis uh Louis Farrakhan, Minister Louis uh Louis Farrakhan, Minister Louis Farrakhan, and in the fourth grade I Farrakhan, and in the fourth grade I Farrakhan, and in the fourth grade I wrote a small little book and it was so wrote a small little book and it was so wrote a small little book and it was so sophisticated and advanced that the sophisticated and advanced that the sophisticated and advanced that the teachers wouldn't allow me to read it to teachers wouldn't allow me to read it to teachers wouldn't allow me to read it to anyone below fourth grade. So they sent anyone below fourth grade. So they sent anyone below fourth grade. So they sent me to the fourth and me to the fourth and me to the fourth and other grades because of the dynamics other grades because of the dynamics other grades because of the dynamics around race and all the things that were around race and all the things that were around race and all the things that were mentioned in it. So at a very early age according to God's providence uh by

according to God's providence uh by God's providence I became aware of some God's providence I became aware of some God's providence I became aware of some unusual things as it related to the unusual things as it related to the unusual things as it related to the white and black dynamic. Now, that's not white and black dynamic. Now, that's not white and black dynamic. Now, that's not the only the only the only area of hostility that we have to area of hostility that we have to area of hostility that we have to address, but it's one of the most address, but it's one of the most address, but it's one of the most pronounced if not the most pronounced in pronounced if not the most pronounced in pronounced if not the most pronounced in our context. Both of my grandmothers did our context. Both of my grandmothers did our context. Both of my grandmothers did domestic work. So I would travel across domestic work. So I would travel across domestic work. So I would travel across the tracks literally, tracks, highways, the tracks literally, tracks, highways, the tracks literally, tracks, highways, beautiful neighborhoods, come back to beautiful neighborhoods, come back to beautiful neighborhoods, come back to mine, which was also beautiful, but a mine, which was also beautiful, but a mine, which was also beautiful, but a few degrees off from the experience that few degrees off from the experience that few degrees off from the experience that I had when I went to school and where my I had when I went to school and where my I had when I went to school and where my grandparents worked. And so these things grandparents worked. And so these things grandparents worked. And so these things conjured up something in me as a kid. conjured up something in me as a kid. conjured up something in me as a kid. In high school In high school In high school I developed some rich friendships. We I developed some rich friendships. We I developed some rich friendships. We had a prayer day around the flagpole and had a prayer day around the flagpole and had a prayer day around the flagpole and I noticed that people next to me didn't I noticed that people next to me didn't I noticed that people next to me didn't look, sound, look, sound, look, sound, uh act like me, but they loved Jesus. uh act like me, but they loved Jesus. uh act like me, but they loved Jesus. Then I got to college and went into Then I got to college and went into Then I got to college and went into English 101 and there was one other English 101 and there was one other English 101 and there was one other minority in the room, a Japanese woman minority in the room, a Japanese woman minority in the room, a Japanese woman at the University of Kentucky. So I at the University of Kentucky. So I at the University of Kentucky. So I realized, okay, this is a different realized, okay, this is a different realized, okay, this is a different dynamic.

dynamic. dynamic. And while in college And while in college And while in college I took with me I took with me I took with me a robust love of all people, but not a robust love of all people, but not a robust love of all people, but not decoupled from the difficulties of decoupled from the difficulties of decoupled from the difficulties of people who look like me. people who look like me. people who look like me. And so there were certain things that And so there were certain things that And so there were certain things that were taboo that I was taught, you know, were taboo that I was taught, you know, were taboo that I was taught, you know, you don't date this type of person or you don't date this type of person or you don't date this type of person or you got to be mindful of these kinds of you got to be mindful of these kinds of you got to be mindful of these kinds of people. Well, the Lord did a great work people. Well, the Lord did a great work people. Well, the Lord did a great work on me, he sent uh uh Christian white on me, he sent uh uh Christian white on me, he sent uh uh Christian white wealthy Republicans my way to befriend wealthy Republicans my way to befriend wealthy Republicans my way to befriend me. And and and we had lots of arguments. And and and we had lots of arguments. There were lots of things. There were lots of things. There were lots of things. And uh several of those relationships to And uh several of those relationships to And uh several of those relationships to this very day, 20 some odd years later, this very day, 20 some odd years later, this very day, 20 some odd years later, are the closest relationships. So, God are the closest relationships. So, God are the closest relationships. So, God did a major work in my heart, a major did a major work in my heart, a major did a major work in my heart, a major work in their heart. I married a woman work in their heart. I married a woman work in their heart. I married a woman from the South, from Birmingham, from the South, from Birmingham, from the South, from Birmingham, Alabama. I'm from Miami. And so, there Alabama. I'm from Miami. And so, there Alabama. I'm from Miami. And so, there were lots of things to discuss and work were lots of things to discuss and work were lots of things to discuss and work through there. So, this whole entire arc through there. So, this whole entire arc through there. So, this whole entire arc of my journey up to the present, I of my journey up to the present, I of my journey up to the present, I realized that something is off when it realized that something is off when it realized that something is off when it comes to the comes to the comes to the uh dynamic of race and culture, uh dynamic of race and culture, uh dynamic of race and culture, particularly in the church. And I'll particularly in the church. And I'll particularly in the church. And I'll I'll conclude with this.

I'll conclude with this. I'll conclude with this. There arose a moment in practice when a There arose a moment in practice when a There arose a moment in practice when a teammate and I got into a a very intense teammate and I got into a a very intense teammate and I got into a a very intense uh uh uh disagreement. disagreement. disagreement. And I hurled a racial slur at him. And I hurled a racial slur at him. And I hurled a racial slur at him. And then And then And then he pulled me aside in the locker room he pulled me aside in the locker room he pulled me aside in the locker room later, later, later, only to discover that we both were only to discover that we both were only to discover that we both were believers. We worked through it. And believers. We worked through it. And believers. We worked through it. And then a week later on the football field then a week later on the football field then a week later on the football field was the first time was the first time was the first time um I still remember where I was. It was um I still remember where I was. It was um I still remember where I was. It was actually in this state. I remember the actually in this state. I remember the actually in this state. I remember the person's name where I was called uh one person's name where I was called uh one person's name where I was called uh one of the most degrading things that you of the most degrading things that you of the most degrading things that you could ever call a human being, and even could ever call a human being, and even could ever call a human being, and even more so a minority. So, those types of more so a minority. So, those types of more so a minority. So, those types of stories, good and bad, have shaped me stories, good and bad, have shaped me stories, good and bad, have shaped me as with regard to this conversation. On as with regard to this conversation. On as with regard to this conversation. On on a positive note, uh been married 16 on a positive note, uh been married 16 on a positive note, uh been married 16 years to a beautiful uh Anglo sister. We years to a beautiful uh Anglo sister. We years to a beautiful uh Anglo sister. We have four beautiful mixed daughters and have four beautiful mixed daughters and have four beautiful mixed daughters and a multi-ethnic church. So, I have a lot a multi-ethnic church. So, I have a lot a multi-ethnic church. So, I have a lot invested in this conversation. Thank invested in this conversation. Thank invested in this conversation. Thank you, brother. That's great. you, brother. That's great. you, brother. That's great. So, um my father was born in the So, um my father was born in the So, um my father was born in the Netherlands and uh came over here when Netherlands and uh came over here when Netherlands and uh came over here when he was 3 years old. My grandfather he was 3 years old. My grandfather he was 3 years old. My grandfather um came over on a American uh recovery um came over on a American uh recovery um came over on a American uh recovery ship that was sent over with supplies ship that was sent over with supplies ship that was sent over with supplies and that would be vacant when it and that would be vacant when it and that would be vacant when it returned. So, he came over uh with five returned. So, he came over uh with five returned. So, he came over uh with five children.

children. children. Uh the passage was paid for by a Uh the passage was paid for by a Uh the passage was paid for by a Massachusetts farmer. And so, they lived Massachusetts farmer. And so, they lived Massachusetts farmer. And so, they lived as indentured servants for I think it as indentured servants for I think it as indentured servants for I think it was 2 years to pay off the voyage of the was 2 years to pay off the voyage of the was 2 years to pay off the voyage of the family in order to get the family to family in order to get the family to family in order to get the family to Kalamazoo, Michigan where there was a a Kalamazoo, Michigan where there was a a Kalamazoo, Michigan where there was a a Dutch um enclave or we called it the Dutch um enclave or we called it the Dutch um enclave or we called it the Dutch mafia. Uh they uh we would they he Dutch mafia. Uh they uh we would they he Dutch mafia. Uh they uh we would they he sent them by uh train and had to borrow sent them by uh train and had to borrow sent them by uh train and had to borrow uh money from a friend in Kalamazoo for uh money from a friend in Kalamazoo for uh money from a friend in Kalamazoo for a bus ticket for the remaining uh a bus ticket for the remaining uh a bus ticket for the remaining uh children. So, he lands in Kalamazoo, children. So, he lands in Kalamazoo, children. So, he lands in Kalamazoo, Michigan and begins uh as a Dutch Michigan and begins uh as a Dutch Michigan and begins uh as a Dutch only-speaking uh immigrant uh only-speaking uh immigrant uh only-speaking uh immigrant uh you know, doing all the things just you know, doing all the things just you know, doing all the things just trying to survive, garbage collection, trying to survive, garbage collection, trying to survive, garbage collection, planting flowers in the backyard, planting flowers in the backyard, planting flowers in the backyard, everything else. everything else. everything else. Um and um so, uh a number of about 4 or Um and um so, uh a number of about 4 or Um and um so, uh a number of about 4 or 5 years later died of a uh of a heart 5 years later died of a uh of a heart 5 years later died of a uh of a heart attack and my grandmother survived two attack and my grandmother survived two attack and my grandmother survived two world wars, spoke two languages, lived world wars, spoke two languages, lived world wars, spoke two languages, lived on two continents, outlived two on two continents, outlived two on two continents, outlived two husbands, and she passed away at 101 uh husbands, and she passed away at 101 uh husbands, and she passed away at 101 uh years old with I think it was at the years old with I think it was at the years old with I think it was at the time 90 uh grand and time 90 uh grand and time 90 uh grand and great-grandchildren.

great-grandchildren. great-grandchildren. So, my story is the American dream uh in So, my story is the American dream uh in So, my story is the American dream uh in that respect. And that was baked into um that respect. And that was baked into um that respect. And that was baked into um the ethos of the culture in which I was the ethos of the culture in which I was the ethos of the culture in which I was raised. It's actually a simple, raised. It's actually a simple, raised. It's actually a simple, straight-line narrative. straight-line narrative. straight-line narrative. Um you work hard, you pay your debts, Um you work hard, you pay your debts, Um you work hard, you pay your debts, um and this is the land of um of of um and this is the land of um of of um and this is the land of um of of opportunity, which is so true at so many opportunity, which is so true at so many opportunity, which is so true at so many levels um levels um levels um usually or sometimes or mm maybe, usually or sometimes or mm maybe, usually or sometimes or mm maybe, depending on uh where your experience depending on uh where your experience depending on uh where your experience what your experience is. So, that was my what your experience is. So, that was my what your experience is. So, that was my my cultural narrative of if you will in my cultural narrative of if you will in my cultural narrative of if you will in college or in seminary rather, I paid college or in seminary rather, I paid college or in seminary rather, I paid for seminary for seminary for seminary um by uh working as an admissions um by uh working as an admissions um by uh working as an admissions counselor in the undergraduate um counselor in the undergraduate um counselor in the undergraduate um division of the school. And so, one of division of the school. And so, one of division of the school. And so, one of my responsibilities was to try and my responsibilities was to try and my responsibilities was to try and recruit students from a variety of recruit students from a variety of recruit students from a variety of places in Michigan. One was downtown places in Michigan. One was downtown places in Michigan. One was downtown Grand Rapids. And part of my territory Grand Rapids. And part of my territory Grand Rapids. And part of my territory involved um African-American churches. involved um African-American churches. involved um African-American churches. So, my job was to go and to meet with uh So, my job was to go and to meet with uh So, my job was to go and to meet with uh the the top African-American pastors, the the top African-American pastors, the the top African-American pastors, among others, and ask how we could help among others, and ask how we could help among others, and ask how we could help recruit their kids. And I was meeting recruit their kids. And I was meeting recruit their kids. And I was meeting with one of the most senior um with one of the most senior um with one of the most senior um African-American leaders in the African-American leaders in the African-American leaders in the community. And I asked him, along with community. And I asked him, along with community. And I asked him, along with our uh diversity uh coordinator who was our uh diversity uh coordinator who was our uh diversity uh coordinator who was with me, how we could get more students with me, how we could get more students with me, how we could get more students to our school. And he said, "With all to our school. And he said, "With all to our school. And he said, "With all respect, respect, respect, all due respect, that's just not going all due respect, that's just not going all due respect, that's just not going to happen." And I said, "Why?" And he to happen." And I said, "Why?" And he to happen." And I said, "Why?" And he said, "Because said, "Because said, "Because the the the opportunities that most of the the the opportunities that most of the the the opportunities that most of your students have, mine simply don't your students have, mine simply don't your students have, mine simply don't have. The kids that go to my church are have. The kids that go to my church are have. The kids that go to my church are not in the same lanes that your kids not in the same lanes that your kids not in the same lanes that your kids are." And I immediately pushed back with

are." And I immediately pushed back with are." And I immediately pushed back with my familiar cultural narrative. Told the my familiar cultural narrative. Told the my familiar cultural narrative. Told the story of my grandfather coming to the story of my grandfather coming to the story of my grandfather coming to the United States, blah blah blah, he worked United States, blah blah blah, he worked United States, blah blah blah, he worked hard. So, I told this hard. So, I told this hard. So, I told this I I to this day I can't believe how I I to this day I can't believe how I I to this day I can't believe how um um um uh uh uh just maybe borderline disrespectful I just maybe borderline disrespectful I just maybe borderline disrespectful I was, not really knowing the EQ sort of was, not really knowing the EQ sort of was, not really knowing the EQ sort of of the moment. Told this narrative. And of the moment. Told this narrative. And of the moment. Told this narrative. And then at the end he he looked at me and then at the end he he looked at me and then at the end he he looked at me and he said, he said, he said, "Let me ask you a question. Um "Let me ask you a question. Um "Let me ask you a question. Um do you think that my grandfather and do you think that my grandfather and do you think that my grandfather and your grandfather could have gotten the your grandfather could have gotten the your grandfather could have gotten the same job in Kalamazoo, Michigan when he same job in Kalamazoo, Michigan when he same job in Kalamazoo, Michigan when he landed um in that city?" And I And I I had never thought of that question. I had never thought of that question. I had never thought of that question. And I said to him, And I said to him, And I said to him, "No, actually." "No, actually." "No, actually." And then he said, "Just think how much And then he said, "Just think how much And then he said, "Just think how much how what a difference that made." how what a difference that made." how what a difference that made." And I immediately And I immediately And I immediately began weeping. began weeping. began weeping. I was it was a a moment. And the I was it was a a moment. And the I was it was a a moment. And the diversity director that was with me diversity director that was with me diversity director that was with me asked the senior pastor, "What what's asked the senior pastor, "What what's asked the senior pastor, "What what's happening right now?" And here's what he happening right now?" And here's what he happening right now?" And here's what he said. He said, "Our brother has just said. He said, "Our brother has just said. He said, "Our brother has just seen something that he's never seen seen something that he's never seen seen something that he's never seen before."

before." before." And he was right. And he was right. And he was right. And that was uh And that was uh And that was uh a sort of an eye-opening moment to a sort of an eye-opening moment to a sort of an eye-opening moment to realize, "Wow, there is another realize, "Wow, there is another realize, "Wow, there is another narrative, another experience narrative, another experience narrative, another experience uh within the same city with which I in uh within the same city with which I in uh within the same city with which I in which I live of people who follow Jesus, which I live of people who follow Jesus, which I live of people who follow Jesus, worship in churches, but my narrative is worship in churches, but my narrative is worship in churches, but my narrative is not the only narrative." And And And not the only narrative." And And And not the only narrative." And And And mind you, this is a culture where mind you, this is a culture where mind you, this is a culture where there's a statement that I really don't there's a statement that I really don't there's a statement that I really don't like, and it goes like this, "If you're like, and it goes like this, "If you're like, and it goes like this, "If you're not Dutch, you're not much." not Dutch, you're not much." not Dutch, you're not much." Which is really a unfortunate but Which is really a unfortunate but Which is really a unfortunate but emblematic statement of that cultural emblematic statement of that cultural emblematic statement of that cultural narrative. So, fast forward, um I landed narrative. So, fast forward, um I landed narrative. So, fast forward, um I landed at College Park Church and um about uh 7 at College Park Church and um about uh 7 at College Park Church and um about uh 7 or 8 years into uh or 8 years into uh or 8 years into uh being a pastor there, our church is on being a pastor there, our church is on being a pastor there, our church is on uh proverbial railroad tracks, if you uh proverbial railroad tracks, if you uh proverbial railroad tracks, if you will, with a changing uh city to the will, with a changing uh city to the will, with a changing uh city to the south and a very wealthy city to the south and a very wealthy city to the south and a very wealthy city to the north. Uh demographics are changing, north. Uh demographics are changing, north. Uh demographics are changing, more minorities are coming to our more minorities are coming to our more minorities are coming to our church, and I begin hearing about their church, and I begin hearing about their church, and I begin hearing about their experience in our hallways and atrium experience in our hallways and atrium experience in our hallways and atrium and how they felt. They were coming and how they felt. They were coming and how they felt. They were coming because they wanted to worship, because because they wanted to worship, because because they wanted to worship, because they believed um in reformed theology they believed um in reformed theology they believed um in reformed theology and the Bible, and they and I began to and the Bible, and they and I began to and the Bible, and they and I began to hear some stories I just couldn't hear some stories I just couldn't hear some stories I just couldn't believe. I'm like, "Are you serious?

believe. I'm like, "Are you serious? believe. I'm like, "Are you serious? Like, that's actually It reminded me of Like, that's actually It reminded me of Like, that's actually It reminded me of that other narrative." Like, our There's that other narrative." Like, our There's that other narrative." Like, our There's two different experiences. And so, two different experiences. And so, two different experiences. And so, pastorally began thinking about, "How do pastorally began thinking about, "How do pastorally began thinking about, "How do I care? Like, I have to respond to this I care? Like, I have to respond to this I care? Like, I have to respond to this this thing that's that's that's this thing that's that's that's this thing that's that's that's happening, this collision of uh happening, this collision of uh happening, this collision of uh cultures." And at the same time, I was cultures." And at the same time, I was cultures." And at the same time, I was working on the subject of lament, and it working on the subject of lament, and it working on the subject of lament, and it dawned on me that what's actually dawned on me that what's actually dawned on me that what's actually happening and why there was so many happening and why there was so many happening and why there was so many missing conversations was because um my missing conversations was because um my missing conversations was because um my minority church members were grieving minority church members were grieving minority church members were grieving over what was happening, over what was happening, over what was happening, but in their talking, generally, the but in their talking, generally, the but in their talking, generally, the majority culture Christians didn't majority culture Christians didn't majority culture Christians didn't understand that they were grieving, and understand that they were grieving, and understand that they were grieving, and there was a missing uh language, and uh there was a missing uh language, and uh there was a missing uh language, and uh they didn't realize that this group was they didn't realize that this group was they didn't realize that this group was lamenting. lamenting. lamenting. And so I began to realize well, as I'm And so I began to realize well, as I'm And so I began to realize well, as I'm working on lament, this is actually a a working on lament, this is actually a a working on lament, this is actually a a situation happening within our church. situation happening within our church. situation happening within our church. So we began leaning into that. Strange So we began leaning into that. Strange So we began leaning into that. Strange That's strangely providentially one of That's strangely providentially one of That's strangely providentially one of our core values is biblical unity in our core values is biblical unity in our core values is biblical unity in diversity. But at our church's founding diversity. But at our church's founding diversity. But at our church's founding that meant that that meant that that meant that um um um we do theological triage really well. Or we do theological triage really well. Or we do theological triage really well. Or if one person is okay with alcohol and if one person is okay with alcohol and if one person is okay with alcohol and another person Hey, we can worship another person Hey, we can worship another person Hey, we can worship together. One brother goes to movies and together. One brother goes to movies and together. One brother goes to movies and another doesn't. Okay.

another doesn't. Okay. another doesn't. Okay. And so now we have to apply our core And so now we have to apply our core And so now we have to apply our core value in a very new category that's not value in a very new category that's not value in a very new category that's not new biblically, but was new for us as a new biblically, but was new for us as a new biblically, but was new for us as a church. So we set out on a journey to church. So we set out on a journey to church. So we set out on a journey to explore that explore that explore that in lots of ways to um um think about how in lots of ways to um um think about how in lots of ways to um um think about how do we help in our case a predominantly do we help in our case a predominantly do we help in our case a predominantly white church in the suburbs of white church in the suburbs of white church in the suburbs of Indianapolis embrace a biblical vision Indianapolis embrace a biblical vision Indianapolis embrace a biblical vision in light of the context in which we are in light of the context in which we are in light of the context in which we are and in light of the folks who are and in light of the folks who are and in light of the folks who are actually coming to our church. And so actually coming to our church. And so actually coming to our church. And so this wasn't an intentional this wasn't an intentional this wasn't an intentional effort on my part. It really was effort on my part. It really was effort on my part. It really was providential with a couple conversations providential with a couple conversations providential with a couple conversations and circumstances that led me and circumstances that led me and circumstances that led me into into this space. And I'm really into into this space. And I'm really into into this space. And I'm really grateful cuz it's important space. It's grateful cuz it's important space. It's grateful cuz it's important space. It's one that fits with the heart of God. And one that fits with the heart of God. And one that fits with the heart of God. And it's one that is um always fraught with it's one that is um always fraught with it's one that is um always fraught with challenges, difficulties, and and yet it challenges, difficulties, and and yet it challenges, difficulties, and and yet it is beautiful. It's diversity and it's is beautiful. It's diversity and it's is beautiful. It's diversity and it's amazing. amazing. amazing. So So So let's start at a high level brothers, if let's start at a high level brothers, if let's start at a high level brothers, if you could just um you could just um you could just um talk about the biblical basis for talk about the biblical basis for talk about the biblical basis for biblical unity in diversity. So where biblical unity in diversity. So where biblical unity in diversity. So where would you start? What would be your high would you start? What would be your high would you start? What would be your high level? And maybe what we could do is not level? And maybe what we could do is not level? And maybe what we could do is not any one of us present the whole case, any one of us present the whole case, any one of us present the whole case, but maybe we could do like a football but maybe we could do like a football but maybe we could do like a football play and we'll hand it off. Maybe like play and we'll hand it off. Maybe like play and we'll hand it off. Maybe like it's the end of the game. We keep it's the end of the game. We keep it's the end of the game. We keep throwing it back to each other as we're throwing it back to each other as we're throwing it back to each other as we're trying to get down the field, right? So, trying to get down the field, right? So, trying to get down the field, right? So, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, we're going to score. Here we are.

we're going to score. Here we are. we're going to score. Here we are. That's right, cuz we got Mike over here. That's right, cuz we got Mike over here. That's right, cuz we got Mike over here. He's going to help us. He's going to help us. He's going to help us. He's got us. So, there we go. All right, He's got us. So, there we go. All right, He's got us. So, there we go. All right, so, why don't you start us out? Where do so, why don't you start us out? Where do so, why don't you start us out? Where do we Where do we begin when we think about we Where do we begin when we think about we Where do we begin when we think about biblical unity and diversity? biblical unity and diversity? biblical unity and diversity? for for me, biblically and for for me, biblically and for for me, biblically and theologically, we begin at the theologically, we begin at the theologically, we begin at the beginning, literally, of uh of the Bible beginning, literally, of uh of the Bible beginning, literally, of uh of the Bible when we ask these questions, what What when we ask these questions, what What when we ask these questions, what What is What is the first thing is What is the first thing is What is the first thing that the Bible says about humanity? that the Bible says about humanity? that the Bible says about humanity? The first thing we hear out of the mouth The first thing we hear out of the mouth The first thing we hear out of the mouth of God is let us make man in our image, of God is let us make man in our image, of God is let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, which begs according to our likeness, which begs according to our likeness, which begs the question, what does it mean the question, what does it mean the question, what does it mean for humanity to be the image of God? Who for humanity to be the image of God? Who for humanity to be the image of God? Who is this God that we image? is this God that we image? is this God that we image? And I would put before you what we see And I would put before you what we see And I would put before you what we see revealed to us in the pages of revealed to us in the pages of revealed to us in the pages of scripture, scripture, scripture, that God is the epitome of unity and that God is the epitome of unity and that God is the epitome of unity and diversity. In his triune nature, as diversity. In his triune nature, as diversity. In his triune nature, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, he is absolute the absolute perfection he is absolute the absolute perfection he is absolute the absolute perfection of unity and the absolute perfection of of unity and the absolute perfection of of unity and the absolute perfection of diversity. One of my favorite diversity. One of my favorite diversity. One of my favorite theologians, Herman Bavinck, puts it theologians, Herman Bavinck, puts it theologians, Herman Bavinck, puts it this way. He says, "In God, too, there this way. He says, "In God, too, there this way. He says, "In God, too, there is unity in diversity. Indeed, this is unity in diversity. Indeed, this is unity in diversity. Indeed, this order and this harmony exist in him order and this harmony exist in him order and this harmony exist in him absolutely."

absolutely." absolutely." He says, "In the case of creatures, us, He says, "In the case of creatures, us, He says, "In the case of creatures, us, we only see a mere kind of reflection of we only see a mere kind of reflection of we only see a mere kind of reflection of it among us." He's talking about fallen it among us." He's talking about fallen it among us." He's talking about fallen humanity. "Unity exists only by humanity. "Unity exists only by humanity. "Unity exists only by attraction, attraction, attraction, by the will and the disposition of the by the will and the disposition of the by the will and the disposition of the will. It's a moral unity that's fragile will. It's a moral unity that's fragile will. It's a moral unity that's fragile and unstable." So, he says, "We have to and unstable." So, he says, "We have to and unstable." So, he says, "We have to start with God start with God start with God and who God is, and therefore, what does and who God is, and therefore, what does and who God is, and therefore, what does God mean God mean God mean when he says, "Let us make humanity in when he says, "Let us make humanity in when he says, "Let us make humanity in our image." That we were created our image." That we were created our image." That we were created to image the God who is unity and to image the God who is unity and to image the God who is unity and diversity, therefore it is our diversity, therefore it is our diversity, therefore it is our expectation expectation expectation that we will image him as unity in that we will image him as unity in that we will image him as unity in diversity. Last Bavinck quote, and then diversity. Last Bavinck quote, and then diversity. Last Bavinck quote, and then I'll pass the mic. I'll pass the mic. I'll pass the mic. My last Bavinck quote for now. My last Bavinck quote for now. My last Bavinck quote for now. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then I'll pass the mic. He says, He says, "The image of God is much too rich for "The image of God is much too rich for "The image of God is much too rich for it to be fully realized in a single it to be fully realized in a single it to be fully realized in a single human being, human being, human being, however richly gifted that human being however richly gifted that human being however richly gifted that human being may be.

may be. may be. It may only be somewhat unfolded in its It may only be somewhat unfolded in its It may only be somewhat unfolded in its depths and riches in a humanity counting depths and riches in a humanity counting depths and riches in a humanity counting billions of members. billions of members. billions of members. It is only humanity in its entirety, It is only humanity in its entirety, It is only humanity in its entirety, as one complete organism, summed up as one complete organism, summed up as one complete organism, summed up under a single head, spread out over the under a single head, spread out over the under a single head, spread out over the whole earth as prophet proclaiming the whole earth as prophet proclaiming the whole earth as prophet proclaiming the truth of God, as priest dedicating truth of God, as priest dedicating truth of God, as priest dedicating itself to God, as ruler controlling the itself to God, as ruler controlling the itself to God, as ruler controlling the earth and the whole of creation, only it earth and the whole of creation, only it earth and the whole of creation, only it is the fully finished image. is the fully finished image. is the fully finished image. The most telling and striking likeness The most telling and striking likeness The most telling and striking likeness of God. That's where you start. Amen. of God. That's where you start. Amen. of God. That's where you start. Amen. Wow. Wow. Wow. Let's do it biblically theologically. Let's do it biblically theologically. Let's do it biblically theologically. You've got Old Testament text in you. You've got Old Testament text in you. You've got Old Testament text in you. Okay, here we go. Okay, here we go. Okay, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. All right, the offense line has got the All right, the offense line has got the All right, the offense line has got the ball. ball. ball. Continuing in Genesis, if you go to Continuing in Genesis, if you go to Continuing in Genesis, if you go to Genesis chapter 12, there's a man named Genesis chapter 12, there's a man named Genesis chapter 12, there's a man named Abram who was once a pagan, called out Abram who was once a pagan, called out Abram who was once a pagan, called out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and given a of Ur of the Chaldeans, and given a of Ur of the Chaldeans, and given a promise promise promise of land and a new identity and of land and a new identity and of land and a new identity and offspring. And the Lord says to him, "In offspring. And the Lord says to him, "In offspring. And the Lord says to him, "In your offspring, Abram, your offspring, Abram, your offspring, Abram, all the families of the earth will be all the families of the earth will be all the families of the earth will be blessed."

blessed." blessed." All the families of the earth will be All the families of the earth will be All the families of the earth will be blessed. Two generations later, two blessed. Two generations later, two blessed. Two generations later, two patriarchs later, patriarchs later, patriarchs later, Isaac, his son, the promise is Isaac, his son, the promise is Isaac, his son, the promise is reaffirmed. Jacob, reaffirmed. Jacob, reaffirmed. Jacob, the promise is reaffirmed. Jacob has a the promise is reaffirmed. Jacob has a the promise is reaffirmed. Jacob has a son named Joseph. Joseph is sold into son named Joseph. Joseph is sold into son named Joseph. Joseph is sold into slavery because of his brothers envy of slavery because of his brothers envy of slavery because of his brothers envy of him. Joseph probably had some issues him. Joseph probably had some issues him. Joseph probably had some issues with maturity. He was a great leader, with maturity. He was a great leader, with maturity. He was a great leader, boasted of the dreams that the Lord gave boasted of the dreams that the Lord gave boasted of the dreams that the Lord gave him, sort of disrupts some things in the him, sort of disrupts some things in the him, sort of disrupts some things in the family. They said, "Are we going to bow family. They said, "Are we going to bow family. They said, "Are we going to bow down to you?" And he gets sent off into down to you?" And he gets sent off into down to you?" And he gets sent off into exile and ends up being elevated to exile and ends up being elevated to exile and ends up being elevated to commander of Egypt, second only to commander of Egypt, second only to commander of Egypt, second only to Pharaoh. Pharaoh. Pharaoh. Now, I'm going to jump ahead to Genesis Now, I'm going to jump ahead to Genesis Now, I'm going to jump ahead to Genesis 48. When you get to Genesis 48, Jacob is 48. When you get to Genesis 48, Jacob is 48. When you get to Genesis 48, Jacob is blessing his sons. blessing his sons. blessing his sons. And he says, "Hey, Joseph, And he says, "Hey, Joseph, And he says, "Hey, Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh, my two grandsons, Ephraim and Manasseh, my two grandsons, Ephraim and Manasseh, my two grandsons, are going to be like sons to me." are going to be like sons to me." are going to be like sons to me." Put a pause right there. I want you to Put a pause right there. I want you to Put a pause right there. I want you to go back to Genesis chapter 41.

go back to Genesis chapter 41. go back to Genesis chapter 41. The woman that Joseph married was an The woman that Joseph married was an The woman that Joseph married was an Egyptian woman, Asenath. Egyptian woman, Asenath. Egyptian woman, Asenath. What does that mean Ephraim and Manasseh What does that mean Ephraim and Manasseh What does that mean Ephraim and Manasseh were, ethnically speaking? were, ethnically speaking? were, ethnically speaking? That's right. They were half Egyptian. That's right. They were half Egyptian. That's right. They were half Egyptian. And right as Jacob is blessing them, he And right as Jacob is blessing them, he And right as Jacob is blessing them, he recounts the promise that God made to recounts the promise that God made to recounts the promise that God made to him. And so we see as the unfolding him. And so we see as the unfolding him. And so we see as the unfolding mystery of scriptures taking place, mystery of scriptures taking place, mystery of scriptures taking place, revelation is unfolding before our very revelation is unfolding before our very revelation is unfolding before our very eyes. We get a little proleptic insight eyes. We get a little proleptic insight eyes. We get a little proleptic insight as to what God is up to missiologically. as to what God is up to missiologically. as to what God is up to missiologically. After Egypt is uh freed from after After Egypt is uh freed from after After Egypt is uh freed from after Israel is freed from Egyptian captivity, Israel is freed from Egyptian captivity, Israel is freed from Egyptian captivity, you'll notice that some of those who you'll notice that some of those who you'll notice that some of those who left were also Egyptians. Now, if we left were also Egyptians. Now, if we left were also Egyptians. Now, if we jump forward to Psalm 87, one of the jump forward to Psalm 87, one of the jump forward to Psalm 87, one of the worship texts in Israel life, "Oh worship texts in Israel life, "Oh worship texts in Israel life, "Oh glorious things are spoken of thee, O glorious things are spoken of thee, O glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of Zion. We know the hymn. It says, city of Zion. We know the hymn. It says, city of Zion. We know the hymn. It says, "Born in her." That Hebrew word yalad, "Born in her." That Hebrew word yalad, "Born in her." That Hebrew word yalad, which means born as though they were which means born as though they were which means born as though they were born from born from born from Jerusalem or Zion, Jerusalem or Zion, Jerusalem or Zion, will be will be will be Rahab, Rahab, Rahab, Babylon, Philistia, Tyre, and Cush.

Babylon, Philistia, Tyre, and Cush. Babylon, Philistia, Tyre, and Cush. Rahab was a nickname for Egypt. We Rahab was a nickname for Egypt. We Rahab was a nickname for Egypt. We already know who Babylon was. Israel already know who Babylon was. Israel already know who Babylon was. Israel worshipped. They sang in their worship worshipped. They sang in their worship worshipped. They sang in their worship service of a day where not only service of a day where not only service of a day where not only different enemies but different different enemies but different different enemies but different ethnicities would worship the living and ethnicities would worship the living and ethnicities would worship the living and true God. It was a part of their life. true God. It was a part of their life. true God. It was a part of their life. There was an expectation that their There was an expectation that their There was an expectation that their enemies and different ethnicities, enemies and different ethnicities, enemies and different ethnicities, Ethiopia, Tyre, Cush, would all be Ethiopia, Tyre, Cush, would all be Ethiopia, Tyre, Cush, would all be included in the registry of people born included in the registry of people born included in the registry of people born in Zion. So, in Zion. So, in Zion. So, it's not quite a new thing. It just was it's not quite a new thing. It just was it's not quite a new thing. It just was somewhat hidden, but God gave us some somewhat hidden, but God gave us some somewhat hidden, but God gave us some incredible insight as to what he was up incredible insight as to what he was up incredible insight as to what he was up to from the very beginning. So, if we round out the New Testament So, if we round out the New Testament picture and and use the help of Boving's picture and and use the help of Boving's picture and and use the help of Boving's insight, insight, insight, in the beginning God created man, male in the beginning God created man, male in the beginning God created man, male and female he created them in his image. and female he created them in his image. and female he created them in his image. As Robert Gagne said, As Robert Gagne said, As Robert Gagne said, uh the the beauty of God's triunity uh the the beauty of God's triunity uh the the beauty of God's triunity was too great to be reflected in one was too great to be reflected in one was too great to be reflected in one gender.

gender. gender. And then if we use Boving as well, And then if we use Boving as well, And then if we use Boving as well, it's too magnificent to be captured in it's too magnificent to be captured in it's too magnificent to be captured in one race. one race. one race. And so, Revelation 7:9 is the effect of And so, Revelation 7:9 is the effect of And so, Revelation 7:9 is the effect of putting back together what the devil putting back together what the devil putting back together what the devil tried to destroy in the in the garden, tried to destroy in the in the garden, tried to destroy in the in the garden, and the whole of the Bible is the and the whole of the Bible is the and the whole of the Bible is the unpacking of that battle unpacking of that battle unpacking of that battle of the serpent striking against the heel of the serpent striking against the heel of the serpent striking against the heel of of of of Christ putting humanity back of Christ putting humanity back of Christ putting humanity back together. together. together. Christ ultimately crushing his head with Christ ultimately crushing his head with Christ ultimately crushing his head with every tribe, tongue, people, and nation every tribe, tongue, people, and nation every tribe, tongue, people, and nation worshipping God worshipping God worshipping God uh together in heaven. uh together in heaven. uh together in heaven. And the the the And the the the And the the the the New Testament uh mission then the New Testament uh mission then the New Testament uh mission then was to reflect that that mission. was to reflect that that mission. was to reflect that that mission. Reflect that that coming day Reflect that that coming day Reflect that that coming day that DNA, as Alister said, that DNA, as Alister said, that DNA, as Alister said, of heaven in the local church.

of heaven in the local church. of heaven in the local church. Never going to do it perfectly. Never going to do it perfectly. Never going to do it perfectly. But we want to astonish the world. But we want to astonish the world. But we want to astonish the world. We want to provide opportunity for the We want to provide opportunity for the We want to provide opportunity for the world to come in and say, "That is not world to come in and say, "That is not world to come in and say, "That is not supposed to happen." supposed to happen." supposed to happen." Or with the Don Carson quote today, "The Or with the Don Carson quote today, "The Or with the Don Carson quote today, "The church is made up of church is made up of church is made up of enemies." enemies." enemies." It So, It So, It So, Paul then Paul then Paul then in nine of his 13 letters, he brings up in nine of his 13 letters, he brings up in nine of his 13 letters, he brings up ethnicity or race. ethnicity or race. ethnicity or race. It's not a new topic. It's one that's It's not a new topic. It's one that's It's not a new topic. It's one that's it's been pulled all through redemptive it's been pulled all through redemptive it's been pulled all through redemptive history that God is reflecting history that God is reflecting history that God is reflecting the beauty of his Trinitarian love that the beauty of his Trinitarian love that the beauty of his Trinitarian love that we were called to imitate on earth that we were called to imitate on earth that we were called to imitate on earth that the devil tried to destroy the devil tried to destroy the devil tried to destroy and the and Christ in the church is and the and Christ in the church is and the and Christ in the church is making the effort to put back together. making the effort to put back together. making the effort to put back together. I think we I think we get a sense of I think we I think we get a sense of I think we I think we get a sense of that that that that spiritual battle in the in the life of Jesus as well as in the in the life of Jesus as well as in Paul.

Um Um that that that the gospel, of course, is in essence our the gospel, of course, is in essence our the gospel, of course, is in essence our reconciliation reconciliation reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ, resulting with God through Jesus Christ, resulting with God through Jesus Christ, resulting justification, adoption, sanctification. This is not a replacement of the gospel. This is not a replacement of the gospel. But it is a it's an objective But it is a it's an objective But it is a it's an objective demonstration of the gospel. demonstration of the gospel. demonstration of the gospel. That works powerfully when it's seen. That works powerfully when it's seen. That works powerfully when it's seen. We see it historically with the growth We see it historically with the growth We see it historically with the growth of rapid growth of the church in the of rapid growth of the church in the of rapid growth of the church in the first four centuries. first four centuries. first four centuries. Among the the the main reasons, Larry Among the the the main reasons, Larry Among the the the main reasons, Larry Hurtado says is is that Hurtado says is is that Hurtado says is is that um um um they've never seen anything like this. they've never seen anything like this. they've never seen anything like this. You only worshiped your regional God, You only worshiped your regional God, You only worshiped your regional God, but here are people who are not supposed but here are people who are not supposed but here are people who are not supposed to be together and they're worshiping to be together and they're worshiping to be together and they're worshiping the same God and they're identifying the same God and they're identifying the same God and they're identifying themselves as a new race. themselves as a new race. themselves as a new race. As father, mother, and sister, and As father, mother, and sister, and As father, mother, and sister, and brother. brother. brother. And so, the devil does his best to And so, the devil does his best to And so, the devil does his best to oppose that. oppose that. oppose that. Think about Jesus' first public sermon Think about Jesus' first public sermon Think about Jesus' first public sermon in Luke 4.

in Luke 4. in Luke 4. He sits down, he starts teaching. He sits down, he starts teaching. He sits down, he starts teaching. He's quoting from Isaiah 61. He's quoting from Isaiah 61. He's quoting from Isaiah 61. And then And then And then uh uh uh and and they're and and they're and and they're even after he says, "This day the even after he says, "This day the even after he says, "This day the scripture has been fulfilled." They're scripture has been fulfilled." They're scripture has been fulfilled." They're amening. amening. amening. Wow, what a Wow, what a Wow, what a How eloquent is he? He's effectively How eloquent is he? He's effectively How eloquent is he? He's effectively claimed to be the the Messiah. That claimed to be the the Messiah. That claimed to be the the Messiah. That didn't cause any up uproar until didn't cause any up uproar until didn't cause any up uproar until he says, he says, he says, "The gospel went to the widow at "The gospel went to the widow at "The gospel went to the widow at Zarephath." Zarephath." Zarephath." And it went to Sidon. And it went to Sidon. And it went to Sidon. And then all hell broke loose. Literally. Literally. And then the same with Paul. And then the same with Paul. And then the same with Paul. They were even willing for him They were even willing for him They were even willing for him to say the resurrected Christ met me on to say the resurrected Christ met me on to say the resurrected Christ met me on the road to Damascus. That's fine, Paul. the road to Damascus. That's fine, Paul. the road to Damascus. That's fine, Paul. And then he told me to go to the And then he told me to go to the And then he told me to go to the Gentiles. Oh, no. Gentiles. Oh, no. Gentiles. Oh, no. Rid the earth of this man.

Rid the earth of this man. Rid the earth of this man. So, to me So, to me So, to me that's very exciting. That we should That we should we should strive not to be not to be we should strive not to be not to be we should strive not to be not to be controversialist. controversialist. controversialist. But strive to bring a church into But strive to bring a church into But strive to bring a church into fruition that rattles the gates of hell. To preach a gospel that could get us To preach a gospel that could get us killed. killed. killed. Instead of one that just causes the Instead of one that just causes the Instead of one that just causes the world to yawn world to yawn world to yawn and the devil to be happy and say and the devil to be happy and say and the devil to be happy and say good. They're not a threat. good. They're not a threat. good. They're not a threat. Let me go look for one that Let me go look for one that Let me go look for one that resembles Revelation 7:9. So, with that kind of beautiful biblical So, with that kind of beautiful biblical vision, let's let's talk a little bit vision, let's let's talk a little bit vision, let's let's talk a little bit about some of the the challenges that about some of the the challenges that about some of the the challenges that are are are um um um there are so many. there are so many. there are so many. Um I'd like I'd like to start with this Um I'd like I'd like to start with this Um I'd like I'd like to start with this one just at a high level, which is one just at a high level, which is one just at a high level, which is um um um how do we think about how do we think about how do we think about the application of the gospel in this the application of the gospel in this the application of the gospel in this space space space in light of historical in light of historical in light of historical and specifically local historical and specifically local historical and specifically local historical realities.

realities. realities. Um and so Um and so Um and so that's my first question. The second is that's my first question. The second is that's my first question. The second is why is it that why is it that why is it that um in our missions training, we think um in our missions training, we think um in our missions training, we think about contextualization about contextualization about contextualization um um um on the front end of pursuing missions. on the front end of pursuing missions. on the front end of pursuing missions. But when we think about gospel ministry But when we think about gospel ministry But when we think about gospel ministry in our in our in our um home culture um home culture um home culture um contextualization or the um contextualization or the um contextualization or the missiological story missiological story missiological story gets backgrounded, not foregrounded. And gets backgrounded, not foregrounded. And gets backgrounded, not foregrounded. And uh so, let's let's just talk about that uh so, let's let's just talk about that uh so, let's let's just talk about that um a little bit. It could sound anything um a little bit. It could sound anything um a little bit. It could sound anything like like like um they were not talking about 1930s, um they were not talking about 1930s, um they were not talking about 1930s, 1920s. We're in 2025. Um and um as as a 1920s. We're in 2025. Um and um as as a 1920s. We're in 2025. Um and um as as a result, therefore, sometimes the result, therefore, sometimes the result, therefore, sometimes the conversation is either diminished, conversation is either diminished, conversation is either diminished, sidelined, or even criticized as sidelined, or even criticized as sidelined, or even criticized as unnecessary. So, what are some of the unnecessary. So, what are some of the unnecessary. So, what are some of the challenges how we think about gospel challenges how we think about gospel challenges how we think about gospel ministry in that context? So, who'd like ministry in that context? So, who'd like ministry in that context? So, who'd like to jump into this very easy question? to jump into this very easy question? to jump into this very easy question? That'd be great. So.

I looked over I looked over Michael was like Michael was like Michael was like Okay. He's throwing you the ball. Yeah, Okay. He's throwing you the ball. Yeah, Okay. He's throwing you the ball. Yeah, he's throwing me the ball. he's throwing me the ball. he's throwing me the ball. Um Um Um a number of things come to my mind. a number of things come to my mind. a number of things come to my mind. Let's just talk about our current Let's just talk about our current Let's just talk about our current dynamic dynamic dynamic culturally here culturally here culturally here uh in this country. Right? uh in this country. Right? uh in this country. Right? It is very clear It is very clear It is very clear that we are not beyond that we are not beyond that we are not beyond the issue of race, racial hostility, the issue of race, racial hostility, the issue of race, racial hostility, racism, polarization, ethnic division. racism, polarization, ethnic division. racism, polarization, ethnic division. Whether you're talking about race and Whether you're talking about race and Whether you're talking about race and ethnicity, whether you're talking about ethnicity, whether you're talking about ethnicity, whether you're talking about immigration, right? Like we are not to immigration, right? Like we are not to immigration, right? Like we are not to the point where like, "Oh, yeah, this is the point where like, "Oh, yeah, this is the point where like, "Oh, yeah, this is no no longer an issue for us culturally, no no longer an issue for us culturally, no no longer an issue for us culturally, right? Or even socially in our right? Or even socially in our right? Or even socially in our communities." And so, what does the communities." And so, what does the communities." And so, what does the church do in response church do in response church do in response to that? How does the church live and to that? How does the church live and to that? How does the church live and lean into this beautiful gospel? lean into this beautiful gospel? lean into this beautiful gospel? Right? That can get you at the very Right? That can get you at the very Right? That can get you at the very least criticized on X.

Um Um I would say to our church very regularly I would say to our church very regularly I would say to our church very regularly um um um the Lord is giving us the Lord is giving us the Lord is giving us an amazing opportunity. an amazing opportunity. an amazing opportunity. Because we get to ask a particular Because we get to ask a particular Because we get to ask a particular question. question. question. Because here's what we know. Because here's what we know. Because here's what we know. When we offend that we will offend one When we offend that we will offend one When we offend that we will offend one another. You can't bring all of these different You can't bring all of these different people together from these different people together from these different people together from these different backgrounds backgrounds backgrounds and I mean you can you can be a mono and I mean you can you can be a mono and I mean you can you can be a mono cultural church and you know you got a cultural church and you know you got a cultural church and you know you got a fence. fence. fence. But you start having all of this social But you start having all of this social But you start having all of this social economic diversity, ethnic racial economic diversity, ethnic racial economic diversity, ethnic racial diversity and diversity and diversity and and I said we get to and I said we get to and I said we get to ask the question ask the question ask the question why am I offended? why am I offended? why am I offended? What is actually offending me? What is actually offending me? What is actually offending me? Is this thing that is offending me Is this thing that is offending me Is this thing that is offending me at root at root at root a cultural preference a cultural preference a cultural preference that I have that I have that I have that the Lord might be calling me to die that the Lord might be calling me to die that the Lord might be calling me to die to to to for the sake of our unity of our lived for the sake of our unity of our lived for the sake of our unity of our lived out unity.

out unity. out unity. Because biblically speaking you know you know George Pastor George mentioned right George Pastor George mentioned right George Pastor George mentioned right nine of nine of nine of Paul's epistles he Paul's epistles he Paul's epistles he he deals with he deals with he deals with uh uh uh race and ethnicity and these divert race and ethnicity and these divert race and ethnicity and these divert these differences these differences these differences in his letter to the Colossians he in his letter to the Colossians he in his letter to the Colossians he says to them and I think you even quoted says to them and I think you even quoted says to them and I think you even quoted from Colossians 3:11 when he says here from Colossians 3:11 when he says here from Colossians 3:11 when he says here Colossians Colossians Colossians in the church there isn't Greek and Jew, in the church there isn't Greek and Jew, in the church there isn't Greek and Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free, but Christ is all Scythian, slave, free, but Christ is all Scythian, slave, free, but Christ is all and in all and he can say that, right? and in all and he can say that, right? and in all and he can say that, right? Because that's who's in the church. Because that's who's in the church. Because that's who's in the church. And then this is what he says, right? So And then this is what he says, right? So And then this is what he says, right? So he says he says he says put on then put on then put on then as God's chosen ones who are holy and as God's chosen ones who are holy and as God's chosen ones who are holy and beloved compassionate hearts beloved compassionate hearts beloved compassionate hearts kindness kindness kindness humility, meekness, humility, meekness, humility, meekness, bearing with one another. And if one has bearing with one another. And if one has bearing with one another. And if one has a complaint against another, forgiving a complaint against another, forgiving a complaint against another, forgiving one another, as the Lord has forgiven one another, as the Lord has forgiven one another, as the Lord has forgiven you, you must also forgive. And above you, you must also forgive. And above you, you must also forgive. And above all these things, put on love, all these things, put on love, all these things, put on love, which binds everything together in which binds everything together in which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

perfect harmony. perfect harmony. We've we've been given this model, this We've we've been given this model, this We've we've been given this model, this this this mandate this this mandate this this mandate that says, "Oh, in this expect expected that says, "Oh, in this expect expected that says, "Oh, in this expect expected community that is dealing with all of community that is dealing with all of community that is dealing with all of these differences and these hostilities, these differences and these hostilities, these differences and these hostilities, right? That you get to practice a right? That you get to practice a right? That you get to practice a particular expression of the love of particular expression of the love of particular expression of the love of Christ. Christ. Christ. It looks like patience. It looks like patience. It looks like patience. It looks like humility. It looks like It looks like humility. It looks like It looks like humility. It looks like kindness. kindness. kindness. It looks like bearing with one another. It looks like bearing with one another. It looks like bearing with one another. Forgiving one another. Forgiving one another. Forgiving one another. Right? And so that's there's not a new Right? And so that's there's not a new Right? And so that's there's not a new solution, solution, solution, right? To the current contextual issues. right? To the current contextual issues. right? To the current contextual issues. And there's still pain in that offering. And there's still pain in that offering. And there's still pain in that offering. When you do that When you do that When you do that not only not only not only will you have to deal with that will you have to deal with that will you have to deal with that internally, right? But then outside internally, right? But then outside internally, right? But then outside there are those who want you there are those who want you there are those who want you All right, I'm going to stop here All right, I'm going to stop here All right, I'm going to stop here cuz you and I can cuz you and I can cuz you and I can There are those There are those There are those who who who particularly in our day because of our particularly in our day because of our particularly in our day because of our echo chambers and social media, echo chambers and social media, echo chambers and social media, who who who who thrive who thrive who thrive on on on the the weaponization of our the the weaponization of our the the weaponization of our differences. Who who differences. Who who differences. Who who who live to build their platforms on who live to build their platforms on who live to build their platforms on othering people.

othering people. othering people. And so you just have to know we you And so you just have to know we you And so you just have to know we you we're going to have to just lean in and we're going to have to just lean in and we're going to have to just lean in and we're going to get those bars from those we're going to get those bars from those we're going to get those bars from those who uh who want to who uh who want to who uh who want to press into the polarization press into the polarization press into the polarization uh as their way of being. uh as their way of being. uh as their way of being. I want to to have the two of you answer I want to to have the two of you answer I want to to have the two of you answer this question as well, but George, would this question as well, but George, would this question as well, but George, would you mind maybe providing a little bit of you mind maybe providing a little bit of you mind maybe providing a little bit of context of the history of your own context of the history of your own context of the history of your own church that which you presently serve in church that which you presently serve in church that which you presently serve in and just how that informs even what you and just how that informs even what you and just how that informs even what you do presently? Uh yeah, my church as said Second Uh yeah, my church as said Second Presbyterian in Memphis and you can read Presbyterian in Memphis and you can read Presbyterian in Memphis and you can read this story in a book called The Last this story in a book called The Last this story in a book called The Last Segregated Hour. Segregated Hour. Segregated Hour. Uh Uh Uh that records the that records the that records the the the the the very the very the very um um um shameful shameful shameful era era era we had up until the late 1960s we had up until the late 1960s we had up until the late 1960s uh of banning uh of banning uh of banning uh uh uh African Americans from African Americans from African Americans from our worship and from the Lord's table.

our worship and from the Lord's table. our worship and from the Lord's table. Uh Uh Uh pastor in the 1940s was pastor in the 1940s was pastor in the 1940s was pressured by his session to pressured by his session to pressured by his session to uh write a policy that no African uh write a policy that no African uh write a policy that no African American would be allowed to take American would be allowed to take American would be allowed to take communion communion communion and uh he and uh he and uh he succumbed to the pressure and then succumbed to the pressure and then succumbed to the pressure and then shortly after that took his life. shortly after that took his life. shortly after that took his life. He was followed by uh Jeb Russell He was followed by uh Jeb Russell He was followed by uh Jeb Russell who was brother of Richard Russell from who was brother of Richard Russell from who was brother of Richard Russell from whom for whom the Senate building is whom for whom the Senate building is whom for whom the Senate building is named DC. named DC. named DC. Very Very Very famous powerful Georgia famous powerful Georgia famous powerful Georgia uh Dixiecrat family uh Dixiecrat family uh Dixiecrat family and Jeb Russell departed the fold and um and Jeb Russell departed the fold and um and Jeb Russell departed the fold and um believed that the gospel was supposed to believed that the gospel was supposed to believed that the gospel was supposed to break down those dividing walls. break down those dividing walls. break down those dividing walls. He thought that he outlast the racist He thought that he outlast the racist He thought that he outlast the racist elders at Second Pres, but he found that elders at Second Pres, but he found that elders at Second Pres, but he found that he couldn't get out of it, wasn't going he couldn't get out of it, wasn't going he couldn't get out of it, wasn't going to be able to. to be able to. to be able to. Um Um Um and they and they and they ultimately ultimately ultimately the congregation asked the congregation asked the congregation asked for a congregational meeting. They voted for a congregational meeting. They voted for a congregational meeting. They voted to rotate out these elders.

to rotate out these elders. to rotate out these elders. But the But the But the the main the main the main catalytic event that brought everything catalytic event that brought everything catalytic event that brought everything to a head was to a head was to a head was uh one of the strategies of civil rights uh one of the strategies of civil rights uh one of the strategies of civil rights movement was called a kneel-in, not a movement was called a kneel-in, not a movement was called a kneel-in, not a sit-in, but a kneel-in, that is just sit-in, but a kneel-in, that is just sit-in, but a kneel-in, that is just going up to African-American going up to African-American going up to African-American um going up to um going up to um going up to white church and white church and white church and just just just bible in hand uh going in to worship. bible in hand uh going in to worship. bible in hand uh going in to worship. That happened in churches around uh That happened in churches around uh That happened in churches around uh Memphis. Memphis. Memphis. Uh only the Christian Science Church Uh only the Christian Science Church Uh only the Christian Science Church allowed African-Americans in into the allowed African-Americans in into the allowed African-Americans in into the balcony. balcony. balcony. The other Protestant churches that The other Protestant churches that The other Protestant churches that didn't get the spotlight that Second didn't get the spotlight that Second didn't get the spotlight that Second Pres did also banned people from coming Pres did also banned people from coming Pres did also banned people from coming in. in. in. And so they knelt outside and uh And so they knelt outside and uh And so they knelt outside and uh uh prayed for several weeks. uh prayed for several weeks. uh prayed for several weeks. Some of them were Presbyterians from the Some of them were Presbyterians from the Some of them were Presbyterians from the local Presbyterian local Presbyterian local Presbyterian uh college, but they were still not uh college, but they were still not uh college, but they were still not allowed. allowed. allowed. Dr. Russell opposed that. Dr. Russell opposed that. Dr. Russell opposed that. Uh he led the congregation into a vote. Uh he led the congregation into a vote. Uh he led the congregation into a vote. They and the congregation overwhelmingly They and the congregation overwhelmingly They and the congregation overwhelmingly voted out voted out voted out those uh racist elders.

those uh racist elders. those uh racist elders. Uh and they started again. Uh and they started again. Uh and they started again. But our But our But our our church is still known for that. our church is still known for that. our church is still known for that. Uh Uh Uh my predecessor, Sandy Wilson, my predecessor, Sandy Wilson, my predecessor, Sandy Wilson, uh led the church in a public act of uh led the church in a public act of uh led the church in a public act of repentance. repentance. repentance. Uh public expression of sorrow inviting Uh public expression of sorrow inviting Uh public expression of sorrow inviting the ones who were still living, who were the ones who were still living, who were the ones who were still living, who were in that kneel-in, in that kneel-in, in that kneel-in, including my friend Lillian including my friend Lillian including my friend Lillian uh Hammond, who's the last living one, uh Hammond, who's the last living one, uh Hammond, who's the last living one, who comes to our church often now. who comes to our church often now. who comes to our church often now. I invited them to to come back and and I invited them to to come back and and I invited them to to come back and and for the leadership of the church for the leadership of the church for the leadership of the church to ask forgiveness publicly. to ask forgiveness publicly. to ask forgiveness publicly. It was a very moving thing recently It was a very moving thing recently It was a very moving thing recently when um when um when um the the our the the our the the our um um um uh director of choirs is uh director of choirs is uh director of choirs is African-American, our organist is African-American, our organist is African-American, our organist is African-American. African-American. African-American. And uh one of our music leaders I see And uh one of our music leaders I see And uh one of our music leaders I see right back there, James Ryan. Thanks for right back there, James Ryan. Thanks for right back there, James Ryan. Thanks for being here. being here. being here. Uh Uh Uh we did an organ dedication concert not we did an organ dedication concert not we did an organ dedication concert not long ago, and I I don't there wasn't any long ago, and I I don't there wasn't any long ago, and I I don't there wasn't any planning to this happening.

planning to this happening. planning to this happening. But But But uh late to the service, I saw uh late to the service, I saw uh late to the service, I saw Lillian Hammond walk in. Lillian Hammond walk in. Lillian Hammond walk in. And then I I scanned the audience. I And then I I scanned the audience. I And then I I scanned the audience. I looked back at the choir. looked back at the choir. looked back at the choir. The choir was about a hundred plus The choir was about a hundred plus The choir was about a hundred plus voices. voices. voices. It was almost exactly 50/50. It was almost exactly 50/50. It was almost exactly 50/50. Uh black, white, and other people of Uh black, white, and other people of Uh black, white, and other people of color. color. color. But mostly African-American. That's But mostly African-American. That's But mostly African-American. That's That's our That's our That's our um um um we're 60% African-American. we're 60% African-American. we're 60% African-American. And uh And uh And uh and the congregation was, too. and the congregation was, too. and the congregation was, too. And I had the the the privilege before And I had the the the privilege before And I had the the the privilege before my sermon my sermon my sermon of saying of saying of saying Lillian look at your legacy. look at your legacy. And uh it'll be one of the thin moments And uh it'll be one of the thin moments And uh it'll be one of the thin moments of my life I'll never forget. of my life I'll never forget. of my life I'll never forget. Amen. Um then we'll go to Michael. How Amen. Um then we'll go to Michael. How Amen. Um then we'll go to Michael. How does that history and that amazing story does that history and that amazing story does that history and that amazing story How does that inform what you guys do How does that inform what you guys do How does that inform what you guys do all the time? Cuz somebody could say, all the time? Cuz somebody could say, all the time? Cuz somebody could say, yeah, somebody could say, that was, you yeah, somebody could say, that was, you yeah, somebody could say, that was, you know, a generation ago.

know, a generation ago. know, a generation ago. Well, I Well, I Well, I even though even though even though they made that great stand, there were they made that great stand, there were they made that great stand, there were no there were very few if very few no there were very few if very few no there were very few if very few African-Americans or any person of color African-Americans or any person of color African-Americans or any person of color who joined who joined who joined for the next number of years. for the next number of years. for the next number of years. And in um And in um And in um under Sandy and then uh for whatever under Sandy and then uh for whatever under Sandy and then uh for whatever reason in the last number of years reason in the last number of years reason in the last number of years um um um numerous people of color have started uh numerous people of color have started uh numerous people of color have started uh joining our church. And part of it I joining our church. And part of it I joining our church. And part of it I think is think is think is um um um part of it is a strategy I learned when part of it is a strategy I learned when part of it is a strategy I learned when I was I did the same work in Augusta, I was I did the same work in Augusta, I was I did the same work in Augusta, Georgia and I learned it from Gerardo Georgia and I learned it from Gerardo Georgia and I learned it from Gerardo Marti Marti Marti in his book uh Worship I never can in his book uh Worship I never can in his book uh Worship I never can remember titles, but Worship Across the remember titles, but Worship Across the remember titles, but Worship Across the Divide or something like that. And he he Divide or something like that. And he he Divide or something like that. And he he studied um studied um studied um uh multiethnic churches across the uh multiethnic churches across the uh multiethnic churches across the country and he asked, "What's the common country and he asked, "What's the common country and he asked, "What's the common denominator?" He thought it was going to denominator?" He thought it was going to denominator?" He thought it was going to be music. You just plug in whatever be music. You just plug in whatever be music. You just plug in whatever music at the of the music at the of the music at the of the the race you want to attract and it He the race you want to attract and it He the race you want to attract and it He said, "That's not it. It is, as he calls said, "That's not it. It is, as he calls said, "That's not it. It is, as he calls it, it, it, um um um uh ritualized racial inclusion, meaning uh ritualized racial inclusion, meaning uh ritualized racial inclusion, meaning hold yourself accountable to make sure hold yourself accountable to make sure hold yourself accountable to make sure there's diversity on the platform every there's diversity on the platform every there's diversity on the platform every Sunday.

Sunday. Sunday. So that when someone looks at you as So that when someone looks at you as So that when someone looks at you as they have through a TV camera to us or they have through a TV camera to us or they have through a TV camera to us or when they come in the back door when they come in the back door when they come in the back door they say they say they say "I'm not only welcome here, I'm wanted "I'm not only welcome here, I'm wanted "I'm not only welcome here, I'm wanted here." here." here." Uh that uh made a great difference in in Uh that uh made a great difference in in Uh that uh made a great difference in in my work in Augusta and it's made a great my work in Augusta and it's made a great my work in Augusta and it's made a great difference here. And so difference here. And so difference here. And so we're trying to be as one we're trying to be as one we're trying to be as one African-American brother in Augusta said African-American brother in Augusta said African-American brother in Augusta said before I started that in more before I started that in more before I started that in more intentional effort intentional effort intentional effort from the front, intentionally praying from the front, intentionally praying from the front, intentionally praying that God would diversify us, being that God would diversify us, being that God would diversify us, being publicly accountable for that, he said, publicly accountable for that, he said, publicly accountable for that, he said, "I believe you're sincere, I just don't "I believe you're sincere, I just don't "I believe you're sincere, I just don't see any authenticity. see any authenticity. see any authenticity. So, it means pursuing authenticity, So, it means pursuing authenticity, So, it means pursuing authenticity, which is inherently risky, but it's which is inherently risky, but it's which is inherently risky, but it's worth it. Amen. Good. Michael, what worth it. Amen. Good. Michael, what worth it. Amen. Good. Michael, what would you add? Yeah, well, and and I would you add? Yeah, well, and and I would you add? Yeah, well, and and I must because I have the opportunity to must because I have the opportunity to must because I have the opportunity to do it, point of privilege, little do it, point of privilege, little do it, point of privilege, little Presbyterian thing, George invited me to Presbyterian thing, George invited me to Presbyterian thing, George invited me to preach at Augusta years ago preach at Augusta years ago preach at Augusta years ago with an emphasis on these realities with an emphasis on these realities with an emphasis on these realities multiple times. And then, once he moved multiple times. And then, once he moved multiple times. And then, once he moved to Memphis, he did the same thing as to Memphis, he did the same thing as to Memphis, he did the same thing as well. So, he's not only talking about well. So, he's not only talking about well. So, he's not only talking about personal privilege.

personal privilege. personal privilege. George invited me to PREACH AT AUGUSTA George invited me to PREACH AT AUGUSTA George invited me to PREACH AT AUGUSTA ON THESE ISSUES YEARS ago and then ON THESE ISSUES YEARS ago and then ON THESE ISSUES YEARS ago and then invited me to Second Pres Memphis to invited me to Second Pres Memphis to invited me to Second Pres Memphis to preach on these issues as well. preach on these issues as well. preach on these issues as well. Okay. Point of privilege. Whatever Okay. Point of privilege. Whatever Okay. Point of privilege. Whatever Um Um Um What Whatever that means, but looks like What Whatever that means, but looks like What Whatever that means, but looks like it gets you the mic. it gets you the mic. it gets you the mic. Uh Uh Uh Point of privilege, George has never Point of privilege, George has never Point of privilege, George has never invited me to preach invited me to preach invited me to preach at his church. at his church. at his church. Uh so Is point of privilege a Presbyterian Is point of privilege a Presbyterian thing? Is that what it is? thing? Is that what it is? thing? Is that what it is? Yes. Yes. Yes. Book of uh well Book of uh well Book of uh well Robert's Rules of Order. Robert's Rules Robert's Rules of Order. Robert's Rules Robert's Rules of Order. Robert's Rules of Order. of Order. of Order. Yes. So, we just adopted that. I see. Yes. So, we just adopted that. I see. Yes. So, we just adopted that. I see. Okay, well, okay. And and he did tell me Okay, well, okay. And and he did tell me Okay, well, okay. And and he did tell me he'd be inviting me back at lunch, so he'd be inviting me back at lunch, so he'd be inviting me back at lunch, so I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for that. Well, as it relates to the the question Well, as it relates to the the question Well, as it relates to the the question and what would what have happened if and what would what have happened if and what would what have happened if someone would have said point of order, someone would have said point of order, someone would have said point of order, ANSWER THE FIRST QUESTION. OH, I LOVE BEING PRESBYTERIAN. WELL, OH, I LOVE BEING PRESBYTERIAN. WELL, You realize that only you guys laughed You realize that only you guys laughed You realize that only you guys laughed about that, right? So, about that, right? So, about that, right? So, everybody else was like, I don't know everybody else was like, I don't know everybody else was like, I don't know what's so funny, but they're having a what's so funny, but they're having a what's so funny, but they're having a good time. So, okay, continue.

good time. So, okay, continue. good time. So, okay, continue. When we planted Christ United When we planted Christ United When we planted Christ United Fellowship, Fellowship, Fellowship, as we were casting vision, it was met as we were casting vision, it was met as we were casting vision, it was met with a range of responses all the way to with a range of responses all the way to with a range of responses all the way to excited because people excited because people excited because people needed to see something like this in our needed to see something like this in our needed to see something like this in our city, and particularly in our city, and particularly in our city, and particularly in our denomination because it had never done denomination because it had never done denomination because it had never done been done before. been done before. been done before. Then some folks folks were uh skeptical. Then some folks folks were uh skeptical. Then some folks folks were uh skeptical. And uh quite honestly And uh quite honestly And uh quite honestly uh pessimistic about it because of a uh pessimistic about it because of a uh pessimistic about it because of a whole sort of external factors and whole sort of external factors and whole sort of external factors and failed attempts. failed attempts. failed attempts. Uh Uh Uh when we planted when we planted when we planted we had a stated core value of diverse we had a stated core value of diverse we had a stated core value of diverse community. community. community. Now, you can have a stated value of Now, you can have a stated value of Now, you can have a stated value of something, but it only becomes a core something, but it only becomes a core something, but it only becomes a core value if you actually live it out. value if you actually live it out. value if you actually live it out. And so, we planted in 2015 to 2025. And so, we planted in 2015 to 2025. And so, we planted in 2015 to 2025. I don't need to give you the litany of I don't need to give you the litany of I don't need to give you the litany of things that have happened in the world things that have happened in the world things that have happened in the world since then uh related to race. since then uh related to race. since then uh related to race. And we were met with the question of And we were met with the question of And we were met with the question of whether or not we were going to address whether or not we were going to address whether or not we were going to address the core concerns of our minority the core concerns of our minority the core concerns of our minority members. And because we did that uh members. And because we did that uh members. And because we did that uh imperfectly at times, people believed imperfectly at times, people believed imperfectly at times, people believed that we were serious about this. They that we were serious about this. They that we were serious about this. They wanted to know does the gospel have wanted to know does the gospel have wanted to know does the gospel have anything to say about my core concerns anything to say about my core concerns anything to say about my core concerns as a minority, my heart experiences in as a minority, my heart experiences in as a minority, my heart experiences in the world um living in a dominant the world um living in a dominant the world um living in a dominant culture, does it have anything to say culture, does it have anything to say culture, does it have anything to say about the racism I experience, the about the racism I experience, the about the racism I experience, the prejudice or or the things that I see, prejudice or or the things that I see, prejudice or or the things that I see, the injustice I see on television? And

the injustice I see on television? And the injustice I see on television? And by God's grace, we answered that. Uh by God's grace, we answered that. Uh by God's grace, we answered that. Uh then on the flip side of that you have then on the flip side of that you have then on the flip side of that you have also folks who come in and they have a also folks who come in and they have a also folks who come in and they have a historical deficiency in terms of historical deficiency in terms of historical deficiency in terms of minority experience. So, you have to be minority experience. So, you have to be minority experience. So, you have to be gracious and bring people along, and you gracious and bring people along, and you gracious and bring people along, and you have to confront error where it's there. have to confront error where it's there. have to confront error where it's there. And then also, I'll conclude with this And then also, I'll conclude with this And then also, I'll conclude with this we have to stand fully on the gospel. we have to stand fully on the gospel. we have to stand fully on the gospel. That is That is That is when people Someone pulled me aside and when people Someone pulled me aside and when people Someone pulled me aside and said, "Hey Pastor Mike said, "Hey Pastor Mike said, "Hey Pastor Mike if we do admit that we have a problem if we do admit that we have a problem if we do admit that we have a problem with racism with racism with racism is there going to be forgiveness for is there going to be forgiveness for is there going to be forgiveness for us?" us?" us?" I said, "That's a 100% fair question. I said, "That's a 100% fair question. I said, "That's a 100% fair question. And that's a categorical yes. And that's a categorical yes. And that's a categorical yes. White guilt is not enough to bear the White guilt is not enough to bear the White guilt is not enough to bear the freight of your sin. Or any form of freight of your sin. Or any form of freight of your sin. Or any form of guilt. Only the cross can. And so guilt. Only the cross can. And so guilt. Only the cross can. And so pessimism arises in these conversations pessimism arises in these conversations pessimism arises in these conversations because people are fearful about because people are fearful about because people are fearful about acknowledging history or acknowledging acknowledging history or acknowledging acknowledging history or acknowledging the things that are going on in their the things that are going on in their the things that are going on in their heart. And I think part of it is a heart. And I think part of it is a heart. And I think part of it is a result of not just saying not saying result of not just saying not saying result of not just saying not saying just how vast just how vast just how vast the cross is and how deep God's grace the cross is and how deep God's grace the cross is and how deep God's grace goes for all of our sins.

goes for all of our sins. goes for all of our sins. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. So um we are coming to the conclusion of So um we are coming to the conclusion of So um we are coming to the conclusion of uh this time. Is there a way to say that uh this time. Is there a way to say that uh this time. Is there a way to say that in Presbyterian language? Um in Presbyterian language? Um in Presbyterian language? Um Yes, there is actually. Yes, there is actually. Yes, there is actually. Is there Is there Oh well. Is there Is there Oh well. Is there Is there Oh well. School me on School me on School me on Motion to adjourn. Okay. Well, uh I'm Motion to adjourn. Okay. Well, uh I'm Motion to adjourn. Okay. Well, uh I'm not motioning to adjourn yet, but we'll not motioning to adjourn yet, but we'll not motioning to adjourn yet, but we'll let you do that. So before I motion to let you do that. So before I motion to let you do that. So before I motion to adjourn, I just would like to have you adjourn, I just would like to have you adjourn, I just would like to have you uh very quickly uh one or two sentence uh very quickly uh one or two sentence uh very quickly uh one or two sentence encouragement encouragement encouragement about pressing on in this conversation. about pressing on in this conversation. about pressing on in this conversation. Um so uh hopefully this has been Um so uh hopefully this has been Um so uh hopefully this has been encouraging, but there's so much more. encouraging, but there's so much more. encouraging, but there's so much more. We could spend hours having really We could spend hours having really We could spend hours having really helpful conversations. So um Michael, helpful conversations. So um Michael, helpful conversations. So um Michael, we'll start with you. We'll come this we'll start with you. We'll come this we'll start with you. We'll come this way. Just one or two sentences before way. Just one or two sentences before way. Just one or two sentences before our motion to adjourn. Yes. It's Number our motion to adjourn. Yes. It's Number our motion to adjourn. Yes. It's Number one, it's biblical. It's near to God's one, it's biblical. It's near to God's one, it's biblical. It's near to God's heart, so it should be near to our heart, so it should be near to our heart, so it should be near to our hearts. Okay? The grace of God is hearts. Okay? The grace of God is hearts. Okay? The grace of God is amazing and it's enough to push us. The amazing and it's enough to push us. The amazing and it's enough to push us. The question is will we step in and pursue question is will we step in and pursue question is will we step in and pursue relational resilience through relational resilience through relational resilience through forgiveness and repentance. And if we do forgiveness and repentance. And if we do forgiveness and repentance. And if we do that, we will leave we'll set an example that, we will leave we'll set an example that, we will leave we'll set an example for the generation that is coming beyond for the generation that is coming beyond for the generation that is coming beyond us that's hungry for answers. And we'll us that's hungry for answers. And we'll us that's hungry for answers. And we'll leave a an incredible witness for the leave a an incredible witness for the leave a an incredible witness for the church to the watching world church to the watching world church to the watching world Amen. of just how amazing our God is.

Amen. of just how amazing our God is. Amen. of just how amazing our God is. Good. George. The world is hungry for something The world is hungry for something beautiful. beautiful. beautiful. They know They know They know cancellation, they know guilt. cancellation, they know guilt. cancellation, they know guilt. They know symbolism They know symbolism They know symbolism over substance. over substance. over substance. We have We have We have the truly good news. the truly good news. the truly good news. And we have a truly beautiful picture. And we have a truly beautiful picture. And we have a truly beautiful picture. When we preach it When we preach it When we preach it and we we must preach and we we must preach and we we must preach unity, the unity that the gospel brings unity, the unity that the gospel brings unity, the unity that the gospel brings across across across uh all the divides. uh all the divides. uh all the divides. And if you're preaching a beautiful And if you're preaching a beautiful And if you're preaching a beautiful message and a beautiful goal and you get message and a beautiful goal and you get message and a beautiful goal and you get beaten up for that, beaten up for that, beaten up for that, you can sleep well at night. Yeah, um you have already Yeah, um you have already heard Michael say that this is heard Michael say that this is heard Michael say that this is close to God's heart. It is near and close to God's heart. It is near and close to God's heart. It is near and dear to God's heart. dear to God's heart. dear to God's heart. And that means And that means And that means that it will that it will that it will without question be resisted by our without question be resisted by our without question be resisted by our enemy.

And so we lean And so we lean on our Lord who says in this world, "You on our Lord who says in this world, "You on our Lord who says in this world, "You will have trouble, will have trouble, will have trouble, but take heart but take heart but take heart because I've overcome the world." because I've overcome the world." because I've overcome the world." And so we press in with a with a clear And so we press in with a with a clear And so we press in with a with a clear expectation expectation expectation that we will not be surprised at that we will not be surprised at that we will not be surprised at resistance. resistance. resistance. That we will meet resistance with faith. That we will meet resistance with faith. That we will meet resistance with faith. And a trust and a learned dependence And a trust and a learned dependence And a trust and a learned dependence on the grace of the Holy Spirit to keep on the grace of the Holy Spirit to keep on the grace of the Holy Spirit to keep moving forward and persevere. Amen. moving forward and persevere. Amen. moving forward and persevere. Amen. Uh the gospel is powerful enough to not Uh the gospel is powerful enough to not Uh the gospel is powerful enough to not only change a person's life, only change a person's life, only change a person's life, but it also changes um but it also changes um but it also changes um church communities. It changes cities, church communities. It changes cities, church communities. It changes cities, it changes neighborhoods, it changes neighborhoods, it changes neighborhoods, but that really gets powerful when it but that really gets powerful when it but that really gets powerful when it changes dinner tables. changes dinner tables. changes dinner tables. So, I think it's important for us to So, I think it's important for us to So, I think it's important for us to think about this subject not as church think about this subject not as church think about this subject not as church change, cultural change, societal change, cultural change, societal change, cultural change, societal change. I think it needs to to to help change. I think it needs to to to help change. I think it needs to to to help us think about my friends change. People us think about my friends change. People us think about my friends change. People that my kids know change. That um that my kids know change. That um that my kids know change. That um Biblical Unity University is not the Biblical Unity University is not the Biblical Unity University is not the subject that we talk about. It's one of subject that we talk about. It's one of subject that we talk about. It's one of many that we talk about because we're many that we talk about because we're many that we talk about because we're Christians first and then we're men and Christians first and then we're men and Christians first and then we're men and women. We're different ethnicities and women. We're different ethnicities and women. We're different ethnicities and different socioeconomic backgrounds. The different socioeconomic backgrounds. The different socioeconomic backgrounds. The gospel does get underneath everything so gospel does get underneath everything so gospel does get underneath everything so that changes everything including our

that changes everything including our that changes everything including our fellowship and our dinner tables. Let's fellowship and our dinner tables. Let's fellowship and our dinner tables. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for this time pray. Father, we thank you for this time pray. Father, we thank you for this time and hope that this is encouraging and and hope that this is encouraging and and hope that this is encouraging and helpful to our brothers and sisters uh helpful to our brothers and sisters uh helpful to our brothers and sisters uh in this room. We pray that the Church of in this room. We pray that the Church of in this room. We pray that the Church of Jesus Christ would continue in Jesus Christ would continue in Jesus Christ would continue in a real and tangible way to look more a real and tangible way to look more a real and tangible way to look more like heaven now. And we ask you to help like heaven now. And we ask you to help like heaven now. And we ask you to help us to um follow you well in um in every us to um follow you well in um in every us to um follow you well in um in every calling that you place upon our life. We calling that you place upon our life. We calling that you place upon our life. We pray this in Jesus' name. pray this in Jesus' name. pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Amen. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Amen. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Uh so moved. All in favor say I. Uh so moved. All in favor say I. Uh so moved. All in favor say I. I. Opposed? I. Opposed? I. Opposed? Welcome to Presbyterian world, folks.