Rapid-Fire Apologetics: Glen Scrivener Answers 5 Tough Questions About the Bible and Theology

Well, here's how I'd like to end the Well, here's how I'd like to end the interview. I I didn't give Glenn uh interview. I I didn't give Glenn uh interview. I I didn't give Glenn uh advanced warning on this. I didn't even advanced warning on this. I didn't even advanced warning on this. I didn't even mention it to Lig, but it just it occurs mention it to Lig, but it just it occurs mention it to Lig, but it just it occurs to me. to me. to me. Um we had a lot of fun with Wes Huff Um we had a lot of fun with Wes Huff Um we had a lot of fun with Wes Huff when he was on with us uh doing a bit of when he was on with us uh doing a bit of when he was on with us uh doing a bit of a lightning round where we posed some a lightning round where we posed some a lightning round where we posed some common objections to Christianity and common objections to Christianity and common objections to Christianity and asked him and you know, how would he at asked him and you know, how would he at asked him and you know, how would he at least begin an answer to a good faith least begin an answer to a good faith least begin an answer to a good faith skeptic questioner. skeptic questioner. skeptic questioner. Um and so I'd love to Glenn for you to Um and so I'd love to Glenn for you to Um and so I'd love to Glenn for you to just help pastors think just help pastors think just help pastors think on their feet. So, Glenn, are you game on their feet. So, Glenn, are you game on their feet. So, Glenn, are you game to answer a few quick to answer a few quick to answer a few quick questions? questions? questions? >> Yep, let's see. Let's Let's give it a >> Yep, let's see. Let's Let's give it a >> Yep, let's see. Let's Let's give it a go. go. go. >> Well, we've mentioned a couple times >> Well, we've mentioned a couple times >> Well, we've mentioned a couple times just the Bible. We've just referenced just the Bible. We've just referenced just the Bible. We've just referenced it, but what would you say to someone, it, but what would you say to someone, it, but what would you say to someone, again, we're talking about good faith again, we're talking about good faith again, we're talking about good faith questioners? questioners? questioners? Someone who's just convinced that the Someone who's just convinced that the Someone who's just convinced that the Bible is an outdated Bible is an outdated Bible is an outdated book of moral lessons that frankly has book of moral lessons that frankly has book of moral lessons that frankly has some stuff in there that that some stuff in there that that some stuff in there that that we really should embarrass us. It's not we really should embarrass us. It's not we really should embarrass us. It's not a book to be taken seriously. What would a book to be taken seriously. What would a book to be taken seriously. What would you say?

you say? you say? >> I would say, "Have you read it?" Um I >> I would say, "Have you read it?" Um I >> I would say, "Have you read it?" Um I would say, "Have you read and and a would say, "Have you read and and a would say, "Have you read and and a simple way in is have you read a gospel simple way in is have you read a gospel simple way in is have you read a gospel since becoming an adult? Have you read since becoming an adult? Have you read since becoming an adult? Have you read one of the four biographies of Jesus?" one of the four biographies of Jesus?" one of the four biographies of Jesus?" Because I think when you actually have Because I think when you actually have Because I think when you actually have contact with the actual Bible rather contact with the actual Bible rather contact with the actual Bible rather than the idea of the Bible as a as a than the idea of the Bible as a as a than the idea of the Bible as a as a poisonous religious document, um poisonous religious document, um poisonous religious document, um you're talking about night and day you're talking about night and day you're talking about night and day difference. So, I I would first of all difference. So, I I would first of all difference. So, I I would first of all say, "You know, have you read it?" And say, "You know, have you read it?" And say, "You know, have you read it?" And if they do say, "Ah, no, I have a if they do say, "Ah, no, I have a if they do say, "Ah, no, I have a problem with the Bible precisely because problem with the Bible precisely because problem with the Bible precisely because I've read it." Um I I think I would then I've read it." Um I I think I would then I've read it." Um I I think I would then say, "Well, the way Jesus told us to say, "Well, the way Jesus told us to say, "Well, the way Jesus told us to read the Bible in Matthew chapter 19 as read the Bible in Matthew chapter 19 as read the Bible in Matthew chapter 19 as as a story that culminates in him." And as a story that culminates in him." And as a story that culminates in him." And he said, "You know, in the beginning he said, "You know, in the beginning he said, "You know, in the beginning there was a kind of a perfection. There there was a kind of a perfection. There there was a kind of a perfection. There was a fall into hardness of hearts in was a fall into hardness of hearts in was a fall into hardness of hearts in the Old Testament, and Moses gave the Old Testament, and Moses gave the Old Testament, and Moses gave non-ideal laws to the Israelites as part non-ideal laws to the Israelites as part non-ideal laws to the Israelites as part of a story of creation and then fall and of a story of creation and then fall and of a story of creation and then fall and then Jesus said he has come to be this then Jesus said he has come to be this then Jesus said he has come to be this Jubilee to be this fulfillment of all Jubilee to be this fulfillment of all Jubilee to be this fulfillment of all the strands that the Old Testament was the strands that the Old Testament was the strands that the Old Testament was was weaving together. And so are you was weaving together. And so are you was weaving together. And so are you reading the Bible as a story that has a reading the Bible as a story that has a reading the Bible as a story that has a sweep to it, that has a shape to it, sweep to it, that has a shape to it, sweep to it, that has a shape to it, that is fulfilled in Jesus himself that is fulfilled in Jesus himself that is fulfilled in Jesus himself because I think that's the way that because I think that's the way that because I think that's the way that Christians view the Bible. And the Christians view the Bible. And the Christians view the Bible. And the reason why we love the Bible is not reason why we love the Bible is not reason why we love the Bible is not simply because we like ancient texts, simply because we like ancient texts, simply because we like ancient texts, it's because we love Jesus and question it's because we love Jesus and question it's because we love Jesus and question number one is have you read have you number one is have you read have you number one is have you read have you have you read the Bible, but question have you read the Bible, but question have you read the Bible, but question number two is is and and what do you

number two is is and and what do you number two is is and and what do you make of him? What do you make of Christ make of him? What do you make of Christ make of him? What do you make of Christ himself? himself? himself? >> It's great and it's the only story in >> It's great and it's the only story in >> It's great and it's the only story in which the central character loves us which the central character loves us which the central character loves us back. back. back. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Ooh. >> Ooh. >> Ooh. >> Ooh, okay, I'm stealing that. Thank you, >> Ooh, okay, I'm stealing that. Thank you, >> Ooh, okay, I'm stealing that. Thank you, man. >> Like >> Like what let let's say you're talking with what let let's say you're talking with what let let's say you're talking with someone and they say uh someone and they say uh someone and they say uh I I I don't understand why you need to I I I don't understand why you need to I I I don't understand why you need to believe that Jesus is divine. Can't we believe that Jesus is divine. Can't we believe that Jesus is divine. Can't we can't we just think of him as a good man can't we just think of him as a good man can't we just think of him as a good man who showed us what God wants us to be who showed us what God wants us to be who showed us what God wants us to be like? Uh why do you Christians insist on like? Uh why do you Christians insist on like? Uh why do you Christians insist on thinking of him as divine? That seems thinking of him as divine? That seems thinking of him as divine? That seems implausible to me. implausible to me. implausible to me. What do you say? What do you say? What do you say? >> Well, I guess the symbol of Christianity >> Well, I guess the symbol of Christianity >> Well, I guess the symbol of Christianity is not a ladder, it's a cross and is not a ladder, it's a cross and is not a ladder, it's a cross and if Jesus was uh if Jesus was uh if Jesus was uh a godly man a godly man a godly man showing us the way to heaven, then I showing us the way to heaven, then I showing us the way to heaven, then I guess the symbol of Christianity would guess the symbol of Christianity would guess the symbol of Christianity would be a ladder and that sounds attractive be a ladder and that sounds attractive be a ladder and that sounds attractive in one sense. Don't we all want 12 rules in one sense. Don't we all want 12 rules in one sense. Don't we all want 12 rules for life and 12 more rules for life?

for life and 12 more rules for life? for life and 12 more rules for life? Don't we all want to ascend up into the Don't we all want to ascend up into the Don't we all want to ascend up into the heavenlies through our own behavior and heavenlies through our own behavior and heavenlies through our own behavior and it it sounds good, but it's a heck of a it it sounds good, but it's a heck of a it it sounds good, but it's a heck of a lot of pressure and I'm not sure I can lot of pressure and I'm not sure I can lot of pressure and I'm not sure I can do that. Um do that. Um do that. Um the symbol at the heart of Christianity the symbol at the heart of Christianity the symbol at the heart of Christianity is a cross, which is basically a rescue is a cross, which is basically a rescue is a cross, which is basically a rescue rope rope rope coming down from heaven. Here Here comes coming down from heaven. Here Here comes coming down from heaven. Here Here comes Here's the Christian story. God comes to Here's the Christian story. God comes to Here's the Christian story. God comes to Earth to do what we can't because we're Earth to do what we can't because we're Earth to do what we can't because we're in the gutter. in the gutter. in the gutter. And that's a radically different message And that's a radically different message And that's a radically different message to self-help manuals. It's also a to self-help manuals. It's also a to self-help manuals. It's also a radically different message to to other radically different message to to other radically different message to to other religions in the world. I think there's religions in the world. I think there's religions in the world. I think there's a lot of good advice in other religions a lot of good advice in other religions a lot of good advice in other religions around the world, but the problem with around the world, but the problem with around the world, but the problem with those other religions is not that they those other religions is not that they those other religions is not that they give bad advice. It's that all it is is give bad advice. It's that all it is is give bad advice. It's that all it is is advice. It's It's like a voice from advice. It's It's like a voice from advice. It's It's like a voice from heaven say try saying try harder. heaven say try saying try harder. heaven say try saying try harder. Um whereas I know for myself Um whereas I know for myself Um whereas I know for myself what I need is God coming down to my what I need is God coming down to my what I need is God coming down to my level to live my life and die my death level to live my life and die my death level to live my life and die my death and rise up again. And so that's that's and rise up again. And so that's that's and rise up again. And so that's that's why Christians insist on why Christians insist on why Christians insist on Jesus being divine. And And also it's Jesus being divine. And And also it's Jesus being divine. And And also it's it's kind of the place you get to when it's kind of the place you get to when it's kind of the place you get to when you read about Jesus. Have you read a you read about Jesus. Have you read a you read about Jesus. Have you read a gospel since becoming an adult? Um I gospel since becoming an adult? Um I gospel since becoming an adult? Um I know that when I read through the know that when I read through the know that when I read through the Gospels, I was expecting to meet a good Gospels, I was expecting to meet a good Gospels, I was expecting to meet a good teacher trying to show me the way. And teacher trying to show me the way. And teacher trying to show me the way. And instead I was meeting this this instead I was meeting this this instead I was meeting this this laughing, shouting, crying, bleeding laughing, shouting, crying, bleeding laughing, shouting, crying, bleeding human sacrifice who is also claiming to human sacrifice who is also claiming to human sacrifice who is also claiming to be God.

be God. be God. And on every page of the Gospels he And on every page of the Gospels he And on every page of the Gospels he seems to make these kinds of divine seems to make these kinds of divine seems to make these kinds of divine claims. And it's the sort of thing that claims. And it's the sort of thing that claims. And it's the sort of thing that forces you to reconsider who God is as forces you to reconsider who God is as forces you to reconsider who God is as well as who Jesus is. And I think it's well as who Jesus is. And I think it's well as who Jesus is. And I think it's the most wonderful kind of the most wonderful kind of the most wonderful kind of reconfiguration you can have. That's reconfiguration you can have. That's reconfiguration you can have. That's That's what Christians mean by That's what Christians mean by That's what Christians mean by repentance to to kind of to rethink repentance to to kind of to rethink repentance to to kind of to rethink everything and go, everything and go, everything and go, "That's what God looks like. It looks "That's what God looks like. It looks "That's what God looks like. It looks like this one with arms outstretched to like this one with arms outstretched to like this one with arms outstretched to the world." And at that point I'm like, the world." And at that point I'm like, the world." And at that point I'm like, "Well, if that's what God's like, I'm "Well, if that's what God's like, I'm "Well, if that's what God's like, I'm in." in." in." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that's exactly the way to go on I think that's exactly the way to go on I think that's exactly the way to go on that. And I I do think that our our 19th that. And I I do think that our our 19th that. And I I do think that our our 19th century liberal friends that that wanted century liberal friends that that wanted century liberal friends that that wanted to make Jesus a less than divine being to make Jesus a less than divine being to make Jesus a less than divine being were actually trying to make were actually trying to make were actually trying to make Christianity like every other world Christianity like every other world Christianity like every other world religion. And they they didn't They had religion. And they they didn't They had religion. And they they didn't They had no idea what they were undoing there. no idea what they were undoing there. no idea what they were undoing there. That the uniqueness of Christianity is That the uniqueness of Christianity is That the uniqueness of Christianity is that God himself has to save us. And I that God himself has to save us. And I that God himself has to save us. And I do think you you pick it up in the most do think you you pick it up in the most do think you you pick it up in the most remarkable ways in the gospel because remarkable ways in the gospel because remarkable ways in the gospel because this man moves so comfortably amongst this man moves so comfortably amongst this man moves so comfortably amongst sinners. And yet they they instinctively sinners. And yet they they instinctively sinners. And yet they they instinctively recognize that though he loves them, he recognize that though he loves them, he recognize that though he loves them, he is not like them. Uh and that there's is not like them. Uh and that there's is not like them. Uh and that there's for for three centuries really really for for three centuries really really for for three centuries really really until you get to the time of Arius until you get to the time of Arius until you get to the time of Arius almost no one will question his almost no one will question his almost no one will question his divinity. They'll question his humanity divinity. They'll question his humanity divinity. They'll question his humanity in early Christianity, but they won't in early Christianity, but they won't in early Christianity, but they won't question his divinity for three question his divinity for three question his divinity for three centuries.

centuries. centuries. Um and and I I think it just it just Um and and I I think it just it just Um and and I I think it just it just jumps off the pages of the gospels. jumps off the pages of the gospels. jumps off the pages of the gospels. >> And just on that, I love that um there's >> And just on that, I love that um there's >> And just on that, I love that um there's a there's a place in Contra Arianos a there's a place in Contra Arianos a there's a place in Contra Arianos where where Athanasius kind of addresses where where Athanasius kind of addresses where where Athanasius kind of addresses Arius and and you know, Arius was saying Arius and and you know, Arius was saying Arius and and you know, Arius was saying that Jesus is is is a divine figure but that Jesus is is is a divine figure but that Jesus is is is a divine figure but but not one being with the Father. And but not one being with the Father. And but not one being with the Father. And and Athanasius says to Arius, my dear and Athanasius says to Arius, my dear and Athanasius says to Arius, my dear Arius, some words to this effect, um you Arius, some words to this effect, um you Arius, some words to this effect, um you do not understand the grace of God. do not understand the grace of God. do not understand the grace of God. And I I just think that's really And I I just think that's really And I I just think that's really interesting. Like like the questions interesting. Like like the questions interesting. Like like the questions around the the divinity of Christ are around the the divinity of Christ are around the the divinity of Christ are actually questions about the grace of actually questions about the grace of actually questions about the grace of God and and vice versa. God and and vice versa. God and and vice versa. >> Amen. And would you say the same for the >> Amen. And would you say the same for the >> Amen. And would you say the same for the skeptic who's saying, skeptic who's saying, skeptic who's saying, "Okay, well, I respect Jesus too. I I I "Okay, well, I respect Jesus too. I I I "Okay, well, I respect Jesus too. I I I hear a lot about what you're saying, but hear a lot about what you're saying, but hear a lot about what you're saying, but but why do you Christians have to insist but why do you Christians have to insist but why do you Christians have to insist that he's the only way to God?" that he's the only way to God?" that he's the only way to God?" >> You can answer that question and make it >> You can answer that question and make it >> You can answer that question and make it sound like Jesus is a really tiny little sound like Jesus is a really tiny little sound like Jesus is a really tiny little gateway into this much larger thing gateway into this much larger thing gateway into this much larger thing called God.

called God. called God. Right? And it can sound arbitrary and Right? And it can sound arbitrary and Right? And it can sound arbitrary and narrow and a bigoted fundamentalism to narrow and a bigoted fundamentalism to narrow and a bigoted fundamentalism to say, say, say, "Jesus is the only way to God." When "Jesus is the only way to God." When "Jesus is the only way to God." When what you're communicating is little what you're communicating is little what you're communicating is little Jesus Jesus Jesus is the way to this much more expensive is the way to this much more expensive is the way to this much more expensive thing called God, which is precisely thing called God, which is precisely thing called God, which is precisely what Arius and Athanasius were fighting what Arius and Athanasius were fighting what Arius and Athanasius were fighting over. And Athanasius over. And Athanasius over. And Athanasius rightly wins the day by saying, "It's rightly wins the day by saying, "It's rightly wins the day by saying, "It's not little Jesus, like um the true light not little Jesus, like um the true light not little Jesus, like um the true light who enlightens everyone was coming into who enlightens everyone was coming into who enlightens everyone was coming into the world", says John chapter 1 verse 9. the world", says John chapter 1 verse 9. the world", says John chapter 1 verse 9. He is the the Logos who is in the bosom He is the the Logos who is in the bosom He is the the Logos who is in the bosom of the Father. He is God from God, light of the Father. He is God from God, light of the Father. He is God from God, light from light, very God from very God. He from light, very God from very God. He from light, very God from very God. He is the one through whom all things were is the one through whom all things were is the one through whom all things were made. Um to talk about the exclusivity made. Um to talk about the exclusivity made. Um to talk about the exclusivity of Christ is another way of talking of Christ is another way of talking of Christ is another way of talking about the supremacy of Christ. We're about the supremacy of Christ. We're about the supremacy of Christ. We're talking about our maker when we're talking about our maker when we're talking about our maker when we're talking about Jesus. We're not just talking about Jesus. We're not just talking about Jesus. We're not just talking about a tiny little godlet talking about a tiny little godlet talking about a tiny little godlet called Jesus. That was That was Arius's called Jesus. That was That was Arius's called Jesus. That was That was Arius's problem. And uh and I'm afraid sometimes problem. And uh and I'm afraid sometimes problem. And uh and I'm afraid sometimes when Christians answer this this this when Christians answer this this this when Christians answer this this this question, they can give they can give question, they can give they can give question, they can give they can give the impression that the exclusivity of the impression that the exclusivity of the impression that the exclusivity of Christ is, "Oh, it is a bit narrow and Christ is, "Oh, it is a bit narrow and Christ is, "Oh, it is a bit narrow and nasty, but we've got to lump it. It's nasty, but we've got to lump it. It's nasty, but we've got to lump it. It's the cost of being a Christian. It's the the cost of being a Christian. It's the the cost of being a Christian. It's the cost of joining the Jesus club. And I cost of joining the Jesus club. And I cost of joining the Jesus club. And I don't I know it doesn't really make don't I know it doesn't really make don't I know it doesn't really make sense." Whereas I think scripturally, sense." Whereas I think scripturally, sense." Whereas I think scripturally, how does John begin? In the beginning how does John begin? In the beginning how does John begin? In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and was the word, the word was with God, and was the word, the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the the word was God. He was with God in the the word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were beginning. Through him all things were beginning. Through him all things were made. Without him nothing was made that made. Without him nothing was made that made. Without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that

has been made. In him was life, and that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. Like life was the light of all mankind. Like life was the light of all mankind. Like the life that John describes in John's the life that John describes in John's the life that John describes in John's gospel, again we we detach the meaning gospel, again we we detach the meaning gospel, again we we detach the meaning of that word from Jesus, and we imagine of that word from Jesus, and we imagine of that word from Jesus, and we imagine it just means Willy Wonka's golden it just means Willy Wonka's golden it just means Willy Wonka's golden ticket. We imagine that life just means ticket. We imagine that life just means ticket. We imagine that life just means bliss in the ninth dimension. bliss in the ninth dimension. bliss in the ninth dimension. The The life that John is talking about The The life that John is talking about The The life that John is talking about is the eternal life of God. It's the is the eternal life of God. It's the is the eternal life of God. It's the eternal life of God. And so obviously eternal life of God. And so obviously eternal life of God. And so obviously the one who's been participating in the one who's been participating in the one who's been participating in eternal life, filled with the spirit, eternal life, filled with the spirit, eternal life, filled with the spirit, God from God in the in the bosom of the God from God in the in the bosom of the God from God in the in the bosom of the Father, the one who has been enjoying Father, the one who has been enjoying Father, the one who has been enjoying that eternal life, he, fully God, comes that eternal life, he, fully God, comes that eternal life, he, fully God, comes to give it to little old Matt, and to give it to little old Matt, and to give it to little old Matt, and little old League, and little old Glenn, little old League, and little old Glenn, little old League, and little old Glenn, and little old listener. And now we are and little old listener. And now we are and little old listener. And now we are in on the eternal life of God because in on the eternal life of God because in on the eternal life of God because Jesus himself is eternal life. So, it's Jesus himself is eternal life. So, it's Jesus himself is eternal life. So, it's not it's not that Jesus is this weird not it's not that Jesus is this weird not it's not that Jesus is this weird arbitrary minor arbitrary minor arbitrary minor detour detour detour that gets us to this other thing called that gets us to this other thing called that gets us to this other thing called God or eternal life or heaven. It's God or eternal life or heaven. It's God or eternal life or heaven. It's Jesus is heaven.

Jesus is heaven. Jesus is heaven. Jesus is eternal life. Jesus is God. And Jesus is eternal life. Jesus is God. And Jesus is eternal life. Jesus is God. And and that still doesn't solve the and that still doesn't solve the and that still doesn't solve the problem. Oh, that seems that you know, problem. Oh, that seems that you know, problem. Oh, that seems that you know, I've I've I've I haven't seen things like that. I haven't seen things like that. I haven't seen things like that. And but then at that point you just say, And but then at that point you just say, And but then at that point you just say, "Well, you need to meet Jesus." Cuz I "Well, you need to meet Jesus." Cuz I "Well, you need to meet Jesus." Cuz I don't see if you're reading through don't see if you're reading through don't see if you're reading through Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I don't Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I don't Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, I don't see how you can't see this guy walking see how you can't see this guy walking see how you can't see this guy walking on water. You don't think he's God? This on water. You don't think he's God? This on water. You don't think he's God? This This guy healing like this and speaking This guy healing like this and speaking This guy healing like this and speaking like that, you don't think he's eternal? like that, you don't think he's eternal? like that, you don't think he's eternal? Man, if if he's not God, I don't know Man, if if he's not God, I don't know Man, if if he's not God, I don't know who God is. You know, that that that's who God is. You know, that that that's who God is. You know, that that that's the way to the way to the way to approach that, I think. approach that, I think. approach that, I think. >> That's good. And that that means that >> That's good. And that that means that >> That's good. And that that means that when we meet the objection, when we meet the objection, when we meet the objection, "How can you say that he's the only "How can you say that he's the only "How can you say that he's the only way?" That what they're really saying is way?" That what they're really saying is way?" That what they're really saying is I want to be able to go to the God of my I want to be able to go to the God of my I want to be able to go to the God of my own imagination. own imagination. own imagination. >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> Yeah, yeah, right. >> you know, and and it's not that oh, >> you know, and and it's not that oh, >> you know, and and it's not that oh, well, I we all want to go to the to the well, I we all want to go to the to the well, I we all want to go to the to the true God. Why do we have to go through true God. Why do we have to go through true God. Why do we have to go through Jesus? Well, no, you're you're really Jesus? Well, no, you're you're really Jesus? Well, no, you're you're really saying I I want to go to a different saying I I want to go to a different saying I I want to go to a different God. God. God. >> And you are in fact saying you don't >> And you are in fact saying you don't >> And you are in fact saying you don't want to If you don't want to go to want to If you don't want to go to want to If you don't want to go to Jesus, you want to go to the true God Jesus, you want to go to the true God Jesus, you want to go to the true God that's not Jesus, what are you saying that's not Jesus, what are you saying that's not Jesus, what are you saying about Jesus? There he is. He's there in about Jesus? There he is. He's there in about Jesus? There he is. He's there in front of you. Don't you want him?

front of you. Don't you want him? front of you. Don't you want him? >> It's good. God's perfect man, man's >> It's good. God's perfect man, man's >> It's good. God's perfect man, man's perfect God. I think Augustine said, "I perfect God. I think Augustine said, "I perfect God. I think Augustine said, "I I have read in Plato and Cicero many I have read in Plato and Cicero many I have read in Plato and Cicero many sayings wise and beautiful, but never in sayings wise and beautiful, but never in sayings wise and beautiful, but never in either come to me all you who are weary either come to me all you who are weary either come to me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest." and burdened and I will give you rest." and burdened and I will give you rest." Last question, Glenn, you mentioned Last question, Glenn, you mentioned Last question, Glenn, you mentioned bigoted fundamentalism. bigoted fundamentalism. bigoted fundamentalism. How is the Christian, the biblical How is the Christian, the biblical How is the Christian, the biblical sexual ethic not bigoted and harmful. sexual ethic not bigoted and harmful. sexual ethic not bigoted and harmful. >> Sex is powerful. >> Sex is powerful. >> Sex is powerful. And And And therefore, the the Bible insists on it therefore, the the Bible insists on it therefore, the the Bible insists on it being stewarded carefully being stewarded carefully being stewarded carefully and wisely. and wisely. and wisely. It's powerful. It's powerful. It's powerful. It's holy. It's holy. It's holy. It's dangerous. It's dangerous. It's dangerous. It's like fire. It's like fire. It's like fire. And there is one place in my house where And there is one place in my house where And there is one place in my house where you can light a fire safely, you can light a fire safely, you can light a fire safely, in the fireplace. If you light a fire in the fireplace. If you light a fire in the fireplace. If you light a fire anywhere else but in the fireplace, you anywhere else but in the fireplace, you anywhere else but in the fireplace, you will burn down my house. will burn down my house. will burn down my house. Um and the Bible is just wise enough to Um and the Bible is just wise enough to Um and the Bible is just wise enough to say um say um say um something that's very different from something that's very different from something that's very different from what culture is saying. Cul- Culture is what culture is saying. Cul- Culture is what culture is saying. Cul- Culture is saying sex is a leisure activity and the saying sex is a leisure activity and the saying sex is a leisure activity and the Bible is like, "No, no, it's holy fire.

Bible is like, "No, no, it's holy fire. Bible is like, "No, no, it's holy fire. It's holy fire." It's holy fire." It's holy fire." And there is a place for it and it is a And there is a place for it and it is a And there is a place for it and it is a very exclusive place. very exclusive place. very exclusive place. And that might not jive with um And that might not jive with um And that might not jive with um the cultural narrative that we have the cultural narrative that we have the cultural narrative that we have around around inclusion. around around inclusion. around around inclusion. Um but I think our culture is speaking Um but I think our culture is speaking Um but I think our culture is speaking out both sides of its mouth when it out both sides of its mouth when it out both sides of its mouth when it talks about sex. I think talks about sex. I think talks about sex. I think our culture, the the part that has our culture, the the part that has our culture, the the part that has really inherited from the Christian really inherited from the Christian really inherited from the Christian sexual ethic, says that yeah, consent is sexual ethic, says that yeah, consent is sexual ethic, says that yeah, consent is our highest ideal when it comes to sex. our highest ideal when it comes to sex. our highest ideal when it comes to sex. Um Um Um and that non-consensual sex is the worst and that non-consensual sex is the worst and that non-consensual sex is the worst thing that can ever happen to a person. thing that can ever happen to a person. thing that can ever happen to a person. And Christians agree with that. But then And Christians agree with that. But then And Christians agree with that. But then at the same time, the cultural narrative at the same time, the cultural narrative at the same time, the cultural narrative is but our bodies are like playgrounds is but our bodies are like playgrounds is but our bodies are like playgrounds and sex is a leisure activity. and sex is a leisure activity. and sex is a leisure activity. And the Christian is trying to heal the And the Christian is trying to heal the And the Christian is trying to heal the cognitive dissonance cognitive dissonance cognitive dissonance of of the non-Christian at that point of of the non-Christian at that point of of the non-Christian at that point and say, "Well, pick one. Ei- Either and say, "Well, pick one. Ei- Either and say, "Well, pick one. Ei- Either your body is like a temple and sex is your body is like a temple and sex is your body is like a temple and sex is very significant, or your body is like a very significant, or your body is like a very significant, or your body is like a playground and sex is a leisure playground and sex is a leisure playground and sex is a leisure activity. But when sex goes wrong, you activity. But when sex goes wrong, you activity. But when sex goes wrong, you know that it is not a leisure activity.

know that it is not a leisure activity. know that it is not a leisure activity. You like if leisure activities go wrong, You like if leisure activities go wrong, You like if leisure activities go wrong, you give it one star on Tripadvisor. you give it one star on Tripadvisor. you give it one star on Tripadvisor. Um if sex goes wrong in some of these Um if sex goes wrong in some of these Um if sex goes wrong in some of these ways, people go to prison and rightfully ways, people go to prison and rightfully ways, people go to prison and rightfully so. so. so. Sex is significant. Bodies uh temples. Sex is significant. Bodies uh temples. Sex is significant. Bodies uh temples. Gender is important, and I think the Gender is important, and I think the Gender is important, and I think the world is re-waking up to to that fact. world is re-waking up to to that fact. world is re-waking up to to that fact. And once you re-weave together just And once you re-weave together just And once you re-weave together just those truths, those truths, those truths, that that that my gendered embodied life is my gendered embodied life is my gendered embodied life is significant, and my wife's gendered significant, and my wife's gendered significant, and my wife's gendered embodied life is significant, that sex embodied life is significant, that sex embodied life is significant, that sex is significant, that bodies are like is significant, that bodies are like is significant, that bodies are like temples, you re-weave those things temples, you re-weave those things temples, you re-weave those things together, and when you put the needs of together, and when you put the needs of together, and when you put the needs of children ahead of the children ahead of the children ahead of the desires, attractions of parents, desires, attractions of parents, desires, attractions of parents, when you weave those things together, when you weave those things together, when you weave those things together, you get something like the Christian you get something like the Christian you get something like the Christian sexual ethic, and it has been for the sexual ethic, and it has been for the sexual ethic, and it has been for the utter blessing of the world, and I utter blessing of the world, and I utter blessing of the world, and I question whether the sexual revolution question whether the sexual revolution question whether the sexual revolution of the of 1960s has done anything like of the of 1960s has done anything like of the of 1960s has done anything like as much for the world as the Jesus as much for the world as the Jesus as much for the world as the Jesus sexual revolution of the first century.

sexual revolution of the first century. sexual revolution of the first century. >> Yeah.