Self-Care vs. Self-Sacrifice [The Deep Dish - Ep. 41]

I think there's this connection. They're I think there's this connection. They're not the same thing, but between not the same thing, but between not the same thing, but between emotional health and spiritual maturity. emotional health and spiritual maturity. emotional health and spiritual maturity. [music] And I think that we can be [music] And I think that we can be [music] And I think that we can be sanctified and not grow in emotional sanctified and not grow in emotional sanctified and not grow in emotional health. But I think it is very hard to health. But I think it is very hard to health. But I think it is very hard to grow in emotional health and not be grow in emotional health and not be grow in emotional health and not be growing in sanctification at the same growing in sanctification at the same growing in sanctification at the same time. Um [music] time. Um [music] time. Um [music] I I think that our emotional health I I think that our emotional health I I think that our emotional health actually aids our sanctification. >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from >> Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep having deep conversations about deep truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am truths. I am Courtney Doctor and I am here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa here with my friend and co-host Melissa Krueger. Krueger. Krueger. >> Hey Courtney. Um I am really I think I'm >> Hey Courtney. Um I am really I think I'm >> Hey Courtney. Um I am really I think I'm looking forward to our conversation looking forward to our conversation looking forward to our conversation today. I mean I am okay. I might feel a today. I mean I am okay. I might feel a today. I mean I am okay. I might feel a little convicted. And so you're always little convicted. And so you're always little convicted. And so you're always kind of like oh do I want to enter in kind of like oh do I want to enter in kind of like oh do I want to enter in here? Do I want to talk about this? Um here? Do I want to talk about this? Um here? Do I want to talk about this? Um because I can say this is an ongoing because I can say this is an ongoing because I can say this is an ongoing tension in my life. Um and I think this tension in my life. Um and I think this tension in my life. Um and I think this is something a topic that a lot of women is something a topic that a lot of women is something a topic that a lot of women we struggle with and it's this whole we struggle with and it's this whole we struggle with and it's this whole relationship between self-care and relationship between self-care and relationship between self-care and self-sacrifice.

self-sacrifice. self-sacrifice. And you know I mean I think I think And you know I mean I think I think And you know I mean I think I think women struggle with this in particular. women struggle with this in particular. women struggle with this in particular. We have a lot of caretaking in our life We have a lot of caretaking in our life We have a lot of caretaking in our life um for different people whether it's I um for different people whether it's I um for different people whether it's I mean women just like to care for each mean women just like to care for each mean women just like to care for each other you know in a in a lot of ways other you know in a in a lot of ways other you know in a in a lot of ways your roommate in college whether it's your roommate in college whether it's your roommate in college whether it's your housemates or whatever whether it's your housemates or whatever whether it's your housemates or whatever whether it's your parents you're caring for elderly your parents you're caring for elderly your parents you're caring for elderly parents or caring for young children um parents or caring for young children um parents or caring for young children um women feel this tension of taking care women feel this tension of taking care women feel this tension of taking care of other people a lot. So yeah. Yeah. of other people a lot. So yeah. Yeah. of other people a lot. So yeah. Yeah. Uh, and there's really there's kind of Uh, and there's really there's kind of Uh, and there's really there's kind of these two extremes out there, aren't these two extremes out there, aren't these two extremes out there, aren't there? Where, you know, you have um you there? Where, you know, you have um you there? Where, you know, you have um you have the the one hand where it's all have the the one hand where it's all have the the one hand where it's all about the importance of self-care. And about the importance of self-care. And about the importance of self-care. And so, you know, we we see it on Instagram. so, you know, we we see it on Instagram. so, you know, we we see it on Instagram. We might I mean, I'll kind of talk a We might I mean, I'll kind of talk a We might I mean, I'll kind of talk a little bit about this like in my family little bit about this like in my family little bit about this like in my family of origin, how that's actually like a a of origin, how that's actually like a a of origin, how that's actually like a a family value and and so like there's family value and and so like there's family value and and so like there's this importance of self-care and and this importance of self-care and and this importance of self-care and and that can play out in a lot of different that can play out in a lot of different that can play out in a lot of different ways, right? And we'll we'll get into ways, right? And we'll we'll get into ways, right? And we'll we'll get into that. like the way culture kind of that. like the way culture kind of that. like the way culture kind of defines self-care. Um, and then you have defines self-care. Um, and then you have defines self-care. Um, and then you have other women who, other women who, other women who, you know, I mean, they can just be you know, I mean, they can just be you know, I mean, they can just be completely sleepdeprived and and it's completely sleepdeprived and and it's completely sleepdeprived and and it's one of the one of the enog types is, and one of the one of the enog types is, and one of the one of the enog types is, and I think it might be yours is like the I think it might be yours is like the I think it might be yours is like the animal that goes with it is the pelican.

animal that goes with it is the pelican. animal that goes with it is the pelican. And it's the pelican because like the And it's the pelican because like the And it's the pelican because like the pelican, you know, has this historical pelican, you know, has this historical pelican, you know, has this historical story of like feeding its young from the story of like feeding its young from the story of like feeding its young from the wound in its side. It's like this wound in its side. It's like this wound in its side. It's like this sacrificial, right? sacrificial, right? sacrificial, right? >> Flesh. I'm going [laughter] to pick my >> Flesh. I'm going [laughter] to pick my >> Flesh. I'm going [laughter] to pick my own and feed it to you. own and feed it to you. own and feed it to you. >> Yes. And that is that is the other >> Yes. And that is that is the other >> Yes. And that is that is the other extreme where it's so [laughter] you extreme where it's so [laughter] you extreme where it's so [laughter] you know sacrificial know sacrificial know sacrificial and so you know where people are like on and so you know where people are like on and so you know where people are like on the verge of a breakdown um but they the verge of a breakdown um but they the verge of a breakdown um but they won't like just take a break won't like just take a break won't like just take a break >> an intervention again >> an intervention again >> an intervention again this again are you on the edge of a this again are you on the edge of a this again are you on the edge of a breakdown breakdown breakdown >> I think your spiritual maturity has >> I think your spiritual maturity has >> I think your spiritual maturity has trumped that uh but like there's a trumped that uh but like there's a trumped that uh but like there's a proclivity in all of us towards one proclivity in all of us towards one proclivity in all of us towards one direction or the other. So what we want direction or the other. So what we want direction or the other. So what we want to do in is acknowledge this tension and to do in is acknowledge this tension and to do in is acknowledge this tension and start with kind of a biblical view of start with kind of a biblical view of start with kind of a biblical view of both. So let's start with a biblical both. So let's start with a biblical both. So let's start with a biblical view of self-care and talk about how view of self-care and talk about how view of self-care and talk about how it's different than self indulgence, it's different than self indulgence, it's different than self indulgence, which would be self-care taken to the which would be self-care taken to the which would be self-care taken to the unbiblical extreme. Yeah, I think that's unbiblical extreme. Yeah, I think that's unbiblical extreme. Yeah, I think that's a good place to start. And so we want to a good place to start. And so we want to a good place to start. And so we want to say very clearly there is a biblical say very clearly there is a biblical say very clearly there is a biblical view of taking care of ourselves in view of taking care of ourselves in view of taking care of ourselves in certain arenas. And I think scripturally certain arenas. And I think scripturally certain arenas. And I think scripturally we can say um that we have this body and we can say um that we have this body and we can say um that we have this body and we have emotions that I'm going to get we have emotions that I'm going to get we have emotions that I'm going to get into just for a second. But then there's into just for a second. But then there's into just for a second. But then there's also our soul and spiritual growth. And also our soul and spiritual growth. And also our soul and spiritual growth. And I'll ask you about that in just a

I'll ask you about that in just a I'll ask you about that in just a moment. So when it comes to our body and moment. So when it comes to our body and moment. So when it comes to our body and our emotions, I do think we have our emotions, I do think we have our emotions, I do think we have scriptural um encouragements to care for scriptural um encouragements to care for scriptural um encouragements to care for our bodies and to even wrestle in our our bodies and to even wrestle in our our bodies and to even wrestle in our emotions rightly. Um and so firstly with emotions rightly. Um and so firstly with emotions rightly. Um and so firstly with the body I think there's a sense in the body I think there's a sense in the body I think there's a sense in which you know Paul when he's writing to which you know Paul when he's writing to which you know Paul when he's writing to Timothy he says physical training is of Timothy he says physical training is of Timothy he says physical training is of some value. He says godliness has value some value. He says godliness has value some value. He says godliness has value for all things but he he explains that for all things but he he explains that for all things but he he explains that hey your body matters. And I think we hey your body matters. And I think we hey your body matters. And I think we see this um you know and he also when see this um you know and he also when see this um you know and he also when when Timothy's having some ailments I when Timothy's having some ailments I when Timothy's having some ailments I love how Paul deals with Timothy such a love how Paul deals with Timothy such a love how Paul deals with Timothy such a father to him. Hey, you know, when you father to him. Hey, you know, when you father to him. Hey, you know, when you with that stomach stuff you're having, with that stomach stuff you're having, with that stomach stuff you're having, drink a little wine so it'll get better. drink a little wine so it'll get better. drink a little wine so it'll get better. You know, we all love when Paul says You know, we all love when Paul says You know, we all love when Paul says things like this. Um, but like there's things like this. Um, but like there's things like this. Um, but like there's this notion of, hey, you can't actually this notion of, hey, you can't actually this notion of, hey, you can't actually do some of the work you're called to if do some of the work you're called to if do some of the work you're called to if your physical body isn't working your physical body isn't working your physical body isn't working properly. So, you know, so I think it's properly. So, you know, so I think it's properly. So, you know, so I think it's right for us to think about what we eat, right for us to think about what we eat, right for us to think about what we eat, to think about how we exercise, and to to think about how we exercise, and to to think about how we exercise, and to think about our sleep. Those are kind of think about our sleep. Those are kind of think about our sleep. Those are kind of realms of spirit of of our body that are realms of spirit of of our body that are realms of spirit of of our body that are really important. That isn't I need a really important. That isn't I need a really important. That isn't I need a massage. Okay. So, I'm going to massage. Okay. So, I'm going to massage. Okay. So, I'm going to [laughter] we'll talk about that more [laughter] we'll talk about that more [laughter] we'll talk about that more always, right? Not always. I mean, yeah, always, right? Not always. I mean, yeah, always, right? Not always. I mean, yeah, but you know what I I mean like you but you know what I I mean like you but you know what I I mean like you could go your whole life and never have could go your whole life and never have could go your whole life and never have a massage and you've still cared for a massage and you've still cared for a massage and you've still cared for your physical body. You I mean like just your physical body. You I mean like just your physical body. You I mean like just in general. Yeah. Maybe Courtney in general. Yeah. Maybe Courtney in general. Yeah. Maybe Courtney disagrees with me on that, but

disagrees with me on that, but disagrees with me on that, but [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] No. But no, but I do I think you're No. But no, but I do I think you're No. But no, but I do I think you're right, Melissa. There's this assumption right, Melissa. There's this assumption right, Melissa. There's this assumption that we are going to care for our that we are going to care for our that we are going to care for our bodies, right? Like uh the for no one bodies, right? Like uh the for no one bodies, right? Like uh the for no one ever hated his own flesh, but like you ever hated his own flesh, but like you ever hated his own flesh, but like you know and and so talk to us about that know and and so talk to us about that know and and so talk to us about that like there's this assumption in like there's this assumption in like there's this assumption in scripture that that you will naturally scripture that that you will naturally scripture that that you will naturally our natural inclination is you know it's our natural inclination is you know it's our natural inclination is you know it's like when an arm is broken like you like when an arm is broken like you like when an arm is broken like you naturally hold it close to you. There is naturally hold it close to you. There is naturally hold it close to you. There is a there is a a tendency a human tendency a there is a a tendency a human tendency a there is a a tendency a human tendency in us to care for and protect ourselves. in us to care for and protect ourselves. in us to care for and protect ourselves. That's right. And I mean if you don't That's right. And I mean if you don't That's right. And I mean if you don't eat you actually physically will die. So eat you actually physically will die. So eat you actually physically will die. So there is a reality that has to happen there is a reality that has to happen there is a reality that has to happen you know. So there's this care for the you know. So there's this care for the you know. So there's this care for the body that's natural that has to happen body that's natural that has to happen body that's natural that has to happen that we need to at some sense that we need to at some sense that we need to at some sense prioritize. We'll talk we'll talk in a prioritize. We'll talk we'll talk in a prioritize. We'll talk we'll talk in a minute about how that can sometimes go minute about how that can sometimes go minute about how that can sometimes go ary and become an overfocus, you know, ary and become an overfocus, you know, ary and become an overfocus, you know, and and we want to be careful about and and we want to be careful about and and we want to be careful about that. But I also think there that we see that. But I also think there that we see that. But I also think there that we see in the scriptures um a care for our in the scriptures um a care for our in the scriptures um a care for our emotional life. And sometimes I think emotional life. And sometimes I think emotional life. And sometimes I think we're hesitant in the Christian world to we're hesitant in the Christian world to we're hesitant in the Christian world to talk about this. We're like, "Oh, talk about this. We're like, "Oh, talk about this. We're like, "Oh, they're so self-introspective."

they're so self-introspective." they're so self-introspective." But good grief, David was dealing with But good grief, David was dealing with But good grief, David was dealing with his emotions all the time. whether he's his emotions all the time. whether he's his emotions all the time. whether he's happy, whether he's being chased by, you happy, whether he's being chased by, you happy, whether he's being chased by, you know, a band of angry men, you know, know, a band of angry men, you know, know, a band of angry men, you know, whether he's in sin, whether he's in whether he's in sin, whether he's in whether he's in sin, whether he's in sorrow, whether he's h Yeah. All of his sorrow, whether he's h Yeah. All of his sorrow, whether he's h Yeah. All of his emotions, he is actually processing. I emotions, he is actually processing. I emotions, he is actually processing. I think what we see is he's processing think what we see is he's processing think what we see is he's processing them with the Lord. And so there's a them with the Lord. And so there's a them with the Lord. And so there's a right space for that in our lives. I right space for that in our lives. I right space for that in our lives. I think sometimes we can think the superch think sometimes we can think the superch think sometimes we can think the superch Christians are the ones who never have Christians are the ones who never have Christians are the ones who never have to wrestle with how they're feeling. um to wrestle with how they're feeling. um to wrestle with how they're feeling. um they're just you know even and and I they're just you know even and and I they're just you know even and and I think we see in David a real wrestling think we see in David a real wrestling think we see in David a real wrestling and I think it was a godly wrestling but and I think it was a godly wrestling but and I think it was a godly wrestling but what about and that kind of leads into what about and that kind of leads into what about and that kind of leads into our soul care spiritual growth h how our soul care spiritual growth h how our soul care spiritual growth h how should we look at those things well it's should we look at those things well it's should we look at those things well it's obviously of utmost importance that we obviously of utmost importance that we obviously of utmost importance that we are that we are care I mean you know are that we are care I mean you know are that we are care I mean you know Jesus invited Jesus himself went away to Jesus invited Jesus himself went away to Jesus invited Jesus himself went away to desolate places to pray and spend time desolate places to pray and spend time desolate places to pray and spend time with the father and Jesus invited his with the father and Jesus invited his with the father and Jesus invited his disciples I think about when they came disciples I think about when they came disciples I think about when they came back from ministering to the surrounding back from ministering to the surrounding back from ministering to the surrounding towns. And that's the first thing he towns. And that's the first thing he towns. And that's the first thing he does is come away with me like get alone does is come away with me like get alone does is come away with me like get alone with me and we're going to spend some with me and we're going to spend some with me and we're going to spend some time together. And then you know Jesus time together. And then you know Jesus time together. And then you know Jesus is the one who said to me come to me all is the one who said to me come to me all is the one who said to me come to me all who labor and are heavy laden and I will who labor and are heavy laden and I will who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. And then he says take my give you rest. And then he says take my give you rest. And then he says take my yoke upon upon you and learn from me for yoke upon upon you and learn from me for yoke upon upon you and learn from me for I am gentle and lowly in heart and you I am gentle and lowly in heart and you I am gentle and lowly in heart and you will find rest for your souls. So will find rest for your souls. So will find rest for your souls. So there's a physical rest right and a there's a physical rest right and a there's a physical rest right and a spiritual rest. I mean, it's built into,

spiritual rest. I mean, it's built into, spiritual rest. I mean, it's built into, we see it in the creation account where we see it in the creation account where we see it in the creation account where God sets a day aside for Sabbath rest. God sets a day aside for Sabbath rest. God sets a day aside for Sabbath rest. God rested first. He models it for us God rested first. He models it for us God rested first. He models it for us and then he gives us this day. Um, and and then he gives us this day. Um, and and then he gives us this day. Um, and so, so the Lord knows, I mean, he knows so, so the Lord knows, I mean, he knows so, so the Lord knows, I mean, he knows that we are but dust. He knows that we that we are but dust. He knows that we that we are but dust. He knows that we are finite limited people. And he knows are finite limited people. And he knows are finite limited people. And he knows that we need this rest of all kinds. that we need this rest of all kinds. that we need this rest of all kinds. This physical rest, this rest for our This physical rest, this rest for our This physical rest, this rest for our souls. I love that. That's how Jesus souls. I love that. That's how Jesus souls. I love that. That's how Jesus explains it, like come to me and in me explains it, like come to me and in me explains it, like come to me and in me uh with me you're going to find this uh with me you're going to find this uh with me you're going to find this this rest that you're actually longing this rest that you're actually longing this rest that you're actually longing for. And I think even how you've alluded for. And I think even how you've alluded for. And I think even how you've alluded to the fact that we look for it in all to the fact that we look for it in all to the fact that we look for it in all these other places. Um we're we're these other places. Um we're we're these other places. Um we're we're trying to satiate and satisfy this trying to satiate and satisfy this trying to satiate and satisfy this longing that we have that for this rest longing that we have that for this rest longing that we have that for this rest for our souls that is only going to be for our souls that is only going to be for our souls that is only going to be found in Jesus. and we're trying to found in Jesus. and we're trying to found in Jesus. and we're trying to satisfy that in all these other in all satisfy that in all these other in all satisfy that in all these other in all these other places. Um but so it's this these other places. Um but so it's this these other places. Um but so it's this so yes physical rest is necessary care so yes physical rest is necessary care so yes physical rest is necessary care for our souls care for our our spiritual for our souls care for our our spiritual for our souls care for our our spiritual well-being care for our emotional well-being care for our emotional well-being care for our emotional well-being which I want to talk about well-being which I want to talk about well-being which I want to talk about later because I think that that um that later because I think that that um that later because I think that that um that even our emotional health and our even our emotional health and our even our emotional health and our spiritual health are are pretty spiritual health are are pretty spiritual health are are pretty intimately connected and and they they intimately connected and and they they intimately connected and and they they play into each other. So, we'll talk play into each other. So, we'll talk play into each other. So, we'll talk about that. But, so we're just kind of about that. But, so we're just kind of about that. But, so we're just kind of right now trying to define what we mean

right now trying to define what we mean right now trying to define what we mean by self-care. by self-care. by self-care. But now, I want to move into what do we But now, I want to move into what do we But now, I want to move into what do we mean? What's a biblical view of self mean? What's a biblical view of self mean? What's a biblical view of self sacrifice? And so, you know, this idea sacrifice? And so, you know, this idea sacrifice? And so, you know, this idea where Jesus says, "Come to me and you're where Jesus says, "Come to me and you're where Jesus says, "Come to me and you're going to find rest for your souls." He going to find rest for your souls." He going to find rest for your souls." He also said, "If anyone would come after also said, "If anyone would come after also said, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his me, let him deny himself and take up his me, let him deny himself and take up his cross, which means die, right? And cross, which means die, right? And cross, which means die, right? And follow me." And so, there's one author follow me." And so, there's one author follow me." And so, there's one author who said it like this, and I I love who said it like this, and I I love who said it like this, and I I love this. He says, "But for my part, I this. He says, "But for my part, I this. He says, "But for my part, I lacked a category to hold these two lacked a category to hold these two lacked a category to hold these two voices together." And he he talks about voices together." And he he talks about voices together." And he he talks about it as the gospel of extravagant grace it as the gospel of extravagant grace it as the gospel of extravagant grace that requires nothing from us. And that requires nothing from us. And that requires nothing from us. And that's kind of the call to come and that's kind of the call to come and that's kind of the call to come and rest. And then he says, "And the gospel rest. And then he says, "And the gospel rest. And then he says, "And the gospel of radical disciplehip that demands of radical disciplehip that demands of radical disciplehip that demands everything of us." And he says, "Which everything of us." And he says, "Which everything of us." And he says, "Which is it? Come and rest or come and die." is it? Come and rest or come and die." is it? Come and rest or come and die." And I love that because that's the And I love that because that's the And I love that because that's the tension, right? It's the flip side of tension, right? It's the flip side of tension, right? It's the flip side of the same coin. So talk to us about a the same coin. So talk to us about a the same coin. So talk to us about a biblical view of self-sacrifice. I love biblical view of self-sacrifice. I love biblical view of self-sacrifice. I love that quote, Courtney. That's so good that quote, Courtney. That's so good that quote, Courtney. That's so good because it it it highlights the tension because it it it highlights the tension because it it it highlights the tension I think we feel. [snorts] Um our souls I think we feel. [snorts] Um our souls I think we feel. [snorts] Um our souls deeply long this rest. You know, I think deeply long this rest. You know, I think deeply long this rest. You know, I think of the psalmist where it's like my soul of the psalmist where it's like my soul of the psalmist where it's like my soul thirsts for you like a deer pants for thirsts for you like a deer pants for thirsts for you like a deer pants for the water. So we we live in a broken the water. So we we live in a broken the water. So we we live in a broken world. So we feel this deep desire for world. So we feel this deep desire for world. So we feel this deep desire for that rest. our, you know, our bodies that rest. our, you know, our bodies that rest. our, you know, our bodies feel it, our emotions feel it, our soul feel it, our emotions feel it, our soul feel it, our emotions feel it, our soul feels it. And then yet at the same time, feels it. And then yet at the same time, feels it. And then yet at the same time, we have a savior who does say, "Take up

we have a savior who does say, "Take up we have a savior who does say, "Take up your cross and follow after me." And I I your cross and follow after me." And I I your cross and follow after me." And I I mean, yeah, I've told you this before. I mean, yeah, I've told you this before. I mean, yeah, I've told you this before. I I I was talking with when I was in I I was talking with when I was in I I was talking with when I was in women's ministry in the local church and women's ministry in the local church and women's ministry in the local church and we were trying to come up with a retreat we were trying to come up with a retreat we were trying to come up with a retreat theme. I was like, "What if we what if theme. I was like, "What if we what if theme. I was like, "What if we what if we did come and die?" And they all we did come and die?" And they all we did come and die?" And they all looked at me with like length stairs looked at me with like length stairs looked at me with like length stairs like, "No one's coming to that retreat." like, "No one's coming to that retreat." like, "No one's coming to that retreat." >> So on brand for you. I mean, that is >> So on brand for you. I mean, that is >> So on brand for you. I mean, that is just so on brand for you. [laughter] just so on brand for you. [laughter] just so on brand for you. [laughter] >> Let's talk about the hard things. I know >> Let's talk about the hard things. I know >> Let's talk about the hard things. I know >> because I think um I it's so easy for >> because I think um I it's so easy for >> because I think um I it's so easy for for my heart to buy into kind of a um for my heart to buy into kind of a um for my heart to buy into kind of a um health wealth gospel. It it it's not the health wealth gospel. It it it's not the health wealth gospel. It it it's not the one of I'm gonna be rich, but it should one of I'm gonna be rich, but it should one of I'm gonna be rich, but it should be easier and I'm gonna become be easier and I'm gonna become be easier and I'm gonna become >> Yeah. Yeah. And I have to constantly >> Yeah. Yeah. And I have to constantly >> Yeah. Yeah. And I have to constantly remind myself um it's a narrow road. Few remind myself um it's a narrow road. Few remind myself um it's a narrow road. Few find it. Um it it's it's you know it it find it. Um it it's it's you know it it find it. Um it it's it's you know it it is not easy to follow Jesus in some of is not easy to follow Jesus in some of is not easy to follow Jesus in some of the places he leads us. And it will the places he leads us. And it will the places he leads us. And it will [snorts] cause self-denial. I actually I [snorts] cause self-denial. I actually I [snorts] cause self-denial. I actually I have a really good book I've been have a really good book I've been have a really good book I've been reading. I brought it up here. It's reading. I brought it up here. It's reading. I brought it up here. It's called, look how someone gave me this.

called, look how someone gave me this. called, look how someone gave me this. It's this book. It's called future It's this book. It's called future It's this book. It's called future tenses tenses tenses um of the blessed life. I have no idea um of the blessed life. I have no idea um of the blessed life. I have no idea what that title actually means or is what that title actually means or is what that title actually means or is pointing to, [laughter] pointing to, [laughter] pointing to, [laughter] but he has a whole chapter on but he has a whole chapter on but he has a whole chapter on on death and dying. Um and dying to self on death and dying. Um and dying to self on death and dying. Um and dying to self is what he's talking about. And um let is what he's talking about. And um let is what he's talking about. And um let me if you if I have a second because me if you if I have a second because me if you if I have a second because what what I what I think he said here what what I what I think he said here what what I what I think he said here was so good. He talks about how hard it was so good. He talks about how hard it was so good. He talks about how hard it is for us to do this, that the is for us to do this, that the is for us to do this, that the self-life, you know, denying self is self-life, you know, denying self is self-life, you know, denying self is just such a hard thing. And I think just such a hard thing. And I think just such a hard thing. And I think that's what we mean when we're talking that's what we mean when we're talking that's what we mean when we're talking about self-sacrifice. Denying my wants, about self-sacrifice. Denying my wants, about self-sacrifice. Denying my wants, my what what I might be dreaming about, my what what I might be dreaming about, my what what I might be dreaming about, even what I'm hoping for, and even what I'm hoping for, and even what I'm hoping for, and sacrificing it um at some level. And and sacrificing it um at some level. And and sacrificing it um at some level. And and and what he says um he says it so well. and what he says um he says it so well. and what he says um he says it so well. This is how he this is how he words it. This is how he this is how he words it. This is how he this is how he words it. I can't write like this. So, and I can't I can't write like this. So, and I can't I can't write like this. So, and I can't say it this well, to lay your Isaac upon say it this well, to lay your Isaac upon say it this well, to lay your Isaac upon the altar, your dearest, most cherished, the altar, your dearest, most cherished, the altar, your dearest, most cherished, most God-given possession. to turn aside most God-given possession. to turn aside most God-given possession. to turn aside from some gate standing open before you from some gate standing open before you from some gate standing open before you into a sunlit garden and at the call of into a sunlit garden and at the call of into a sunlit garden and at the call of God to take a darker stonier path. To God to take a darker stonier path. To God to take a darker stonier path. To renounce what others hold without rebuke renounce what others hold without rebuke renounce what others hold without rebuke to go to Gethsemane and Calvary and the to go to Gethsemane and Calvary and the to go to Gethsemane and Calvary and the grave in close companionship with the grave in close companionship with the grave in close companionship with the man of sorrows to be stripped of friends man of sorrows to be stripped of friends man of sorrows to be stripped of friends and wealth and reputation and success and wealth and reputation and success and wealth and reputation and success flung like a shipwreck mariner on some flung like a shipwreck mariner on some flung like a shipwreck mariner on some lone shore. uh this is not the lot which lone shore. uh this is not the lot which lone shore. uh this is not the lot which would we would naturally select. Nay, it

would we would naturally select. Nay, it would we would naturally select. Nay, it is from which we shrink. And so he he is from which we shrink. And so he he is from which we shrink. And so he he goes into that a little bit more. And goes into that a little bit more. And goes into that a little bit more. And then and then he says he gives us then and then he says he gives us then and then he says he gives us encouragement. Let us look not on the encouragement. Let us look not on the encouragement. Let us look not on the dying side but on the living side. Each dying side but on the living side. Each dying side but on the living side. Each shadow has its light. Each valley has shadow has its light. Each valley has shadow has its light. Each valley has its height. Each night its dawn. Each its height. Each night its dawn. Each its height. Each night its dawn. Each wound of the oyster shell its pearl. wound of the oyster shell its pearl. wound of the oyster shell its pearl. Each kind of death its counterpart of Each kind of death its counterpart of Each kind of death its counterpart of life. To have one is to have both. It is life. To have one is to have both. It is life. To have one is to have both. It is therefore never a mistake to be ever therefore never a mistake to be ever therefore never a mistake to be ever thinking. It is therefore a mistake to thinking. It is therefore a mistake to thinking. It is therefore a mistake to be ever thinking of what you must give be ever thinking of what you must give be ever thinking of what you must give up. Think rather what you must take in. up. Think rather what you must take in. up. Think rather what you must take in. Follow hard after Christ. [snorts] And Follow hard after Christ. [snorts] And Follow hard after Christ. [snorts] And so he paints this picture of yes there so he paints this picture of yes there so he paints this picture of yes there is this come and die but but he actually is this come and die but but he actually is this come and die but but he actually calls the cha chapter death is the calls the cha chapter death is the calls the cha chapter death is the gateway to life. gateway to life. gateway to life. >> Yeah. So, even when when we're talking >> Yeah. So, even when when we're talking >> Yeah. So, even when when we're talking about self-denial, about self-denial, about self-denial, it's the gateway to life. Like, I love it's the gateway to life. Like, I love it's the gateway to life. Like, I love that the wound has the pearl. that the wound has the pearl. that the wound has the pearl. >> Yeah. I love that. I had a professor >> Yeah. I love that. I had a professor >> Yeah. I love that. I had a professor that would talk about, you know, the um that would talk about, you know, the um that would talk about, you know, the um the seed that must fall to the ground the seed that must fall to the ground the seed that must fall to the ground and die. And he talks about like the and die. And he talks about like the and die. And he talks about like the seed, it falls to the ground and what seed, it falls to the ground and what seed, it falls to the ground and what dies is its outer shell. And what it dies is its outer shell. And what it dies is its outer shell. And what it gives way to though is everything the gives way to though is everything the gives way to though is everything the seed was intended to be. this beautiful seed was intended to be. this beautiful seed was intended to be. this beautiful fruit bearing tree or this beautiful fruit bearing tree or this beautiful fruit bearing tree or this beautiful fruit bearing plant and and it's through fruit bearing plant and and it's through fruit bearing plant and and it's through death the death of falling to the ground death the death of falling to the ground death the death of falling to the ground and having your outer shell cracked open and having your outer shell cracked open and having your outer shell cracked open that actually then gives way to life and that actually then gives way to life and that actually then gives way to life and I I do think that is the way of the I I do think that is the way of the I I do think that is the way of the gospel. I mean it's it's clearly right

gospel. I mean it's it's clearly right gospel. I mean it's it's clearly right death um death first and then life. I death um death first and then life. I death um death first and then life. I mean, death and resurrection, that's mean, death and resurrection, that's mean, death and resurrection, that's that's the the way Jesus um not only that's the the way Jesus um not only that's the the way Jesus um not only led, but then calls us to follow him in led, but then calls us to follow him in led, but then calls us to follow him in both um both his death and resurrected both um both his death and resurrected both um both his death and resurrected life. And so, yeah, and I think a lot of life. And so, yeah, and I think a lot of life. And so, yeah, and I think a lot of times what we're called to die to is times what we're called to die to is times what we're called to die to is everything you were talking about. And I everything you were talking about. And I everything you were talking about. And I think about it in terms of like our think about it in terms of like our think about it in terms of like our agendas. How do I die to my agenda? like agendas. How do I die to my agenda? like agendas. How do I die to my agenda? like the things that that I want to do or the things that that I want to do or the things that that I want to do or that I and so I think self-sacrifice a that I and so I think self-sacrifice a that I and so I think self-sacrifice a lot of times has to do with denying lot of times has to do with denying lot of times has to do with denying those things for the better thing for those things for the better thing for those things for the better thing for the for the way of Christ. And so, you the for the way of Christ. And so, you the for the way of Christ. And so, you know, even when we look at Paul and his, know, even when we look at Paul and his, know, even when we look at Paul and his, you know, his life was so fruitful, you know, his life was so fruitful, you know, his life was so fruitful, right, after he came to know Christ and right, after he came to know Christ and right, after he came to know Christ and and he certainly uh didn't have a lot of and he certainly uh didn't have a lot of and he certainly uh didn't have a lot of self-care going on in his life, right? self-care going on in his life, right? self-care going on in his life, right? There were shipwrecks and beatings and There were shipwrecks and beatings and There were shipwrecks and beatings and he was, you know, um he was hungry, he he was, you know, um he was hungry, he he was, you know, um he was hungry, he was thirsty, he was all these things. was thirsty, he was all these things. was thirsty, he was all these things. And then he tells us in Colossians, he's And then he tells us in Colossians, he's And then he tells us in Colossians, he's like, "For this I this I toil like the like, "For this I this I toil like the like, "For this I this I toil like the proclamation of the gospel with all his proclamation of the gospel with all his proclamation of the gospel with all his energy that he powerfully works within energy that he powerfully works within energy that he powerfully works within me." And so there's this idea of like we me." And so there's this idea of like we me." And so there's this idea of like we die to the things that promote us that die to the things that promote us that die to the things that promote us that are that are um about about our agendas, are that are um about about our agendas, are that are um about about our agendas, the things we desire and we live to the the things we desire and we live to the the things we desire and we live to the things that are of Christ. But I think things that are of Christ. But I think things that are of Christ. But I think I've been thinking about this topic and

I've been thinking about this topic and I've been thinking about this topic and just as we you know I I knew we were just as we you know I I knew we were just as we you know I I knew we were going to be talking about it today and I going to be talking about it today and I going to be talking about it today and I think one of the keys to this is think one of the keys to this is think one of the keys to this is self-awareness self-awareness self-awareness because I think we all are prone to fall because I think we all are prone to fall because I think we all are prone to fall on one side of this or the other. And so on one side of this or the other. And so on one side of this or the other. And so maybe it's your family of origin, maybe maybe it's your family of origin, maybe maybe it's your family of origin, maybe it's just your personality, your own it's just your personality, your own it's just your personality, your own proclivities, but I think there are and proclivities, but I think there are and proclivities, but I think there are and it's probably half and half. Probably it's probably half and half. Probably it's probably half and half. Probably half of the women listening are going to half of the women listening are going to half of the women listening are going to fall like where I would fall and that's fall like where I would fall and that's fall like where I would fall and that's going to be, well, by golly, I'm going going to be, well, by golly, I'm going going to be, well, by golly, I'm going to pursue self-care. Um, that is, you to pursue self-care. Um, that is, you to pursue self-care. Um, that is, you know, my my mom loves me so much and she know, my my mom loves me so much and she know, my my mom loves me so much and she to this day, I mean, she's all like, to this day, I mean, she's all like, to this day, I mean, she's all like, "You need to go get that massage. You "You need to go get that massage. You "You need to go get that massage. You need to go get that pedicure. need to go need to go get that pedicure. need to go need to go get that pedicure. need to go get. And she is just loving me. There is get. And she is just loving me. There is get. And she is just loving me. There is I mean she is not trying to promote I mean she is not trying to promote I mean she is not trying to promote something in me, but I'm like that's something in me, but I'm like that's something in me, but I'm like that's right. I hear that and I'm like that's right. I hear that and I'm like that's right. I hear that and I'm like that's right. That's exactly what I not only right. That's exactly what I not only right. That's exactly what I not only need but deserve. And so my tendency is need but deserve. And so my tendency is need but deserve. And so my tendency is not going to be towards um not going to be towards um not going to be towards um self-sacrifice. But but we all know self-sacrifice. But but we all know self-sacrifice. But but we all know people that are it's almost like the people that are it's almost like the people that are it's almost like the identity comes in because self-sacrifice identity comes in because self-sacrifice identity comes in because self-sacrifice can turn into a martyr complex, right?

can turn into a martyr complex, right? can turn into a martyr complex, right? So if selfcare can turn into the hero So if selfcare can turn into the hero So if selfcare can turn into the hero complex, you know, I'm so great. I need complex, you know, I'm so great. I need complex, you know, I'm so great. I need to do all these things for myself, to do all these things for myself, to do all these things for myself, self-sacrifice can turn into the martyr self-sacrifice can turn into the martyr self-sacrifice can turn into the martyr complex where, you know, I am always complex where, you know, I am always complex where, you know, I am always pouring myself out for others. And you, pouring myself out for others. And you, pouring myself out for others. And you, it becomes kind of your identity. And it becomes kind of your identity. And it becomes kind of your identity. And so, we were talking in the beginning so, we were talking in the beginning so, we were talking in the beginning about like this emotional health. And I about like this emotional health. And I about like this emotional health. And I think this is where they're tied. Uh think this is where they're tied. Uh think this is where they're tied. Uh part of pursuing emotional health is part of pursuing emotional health is part of pursuing emotional health is growing in self-awareness. growing in self-awareness. growing in self-awareness. And part of that self-awareness then is And part of that self-awareness then is And part of that self-awareness then is going to be to say, man, where where going to be to say, man, where where going to be to say, man, where where does where do these two things that we does where do these two things that we does where do these two things that we can see both in scripture, come and can see both in scripture, come and can see both in scripture, come and rest, come and die. Where can both of rest, come and die. Where can both of rest, come and die. Where can both of those turn into idolatry in our lives? those turn into idolatry in our lives? those turn into idolatry in our lives? Um either the idolatry of self like oh I Um either the idolatry of self like oh I Um either the idolatry of self like oh I do so much for other people or the do so much for other people or the do so much for other people or the idolatry of self that is I must pamper idolatry of self that is I must pamper idolatry of self that is I must pamper myself at every you know at every turn. myself at every you know at every turn. myself at every you know at every turn. So um so what does it as we're as we're So um so what does it as we're as we're So um so what does it as we're as we're thinking about those things and you thinking about those things and you thinking about those things and you started going there I kind of took us on started going there I kind of took us on started going there I kind of took us on a different rabbit trail but let's go a different rabbit trail but let's go a different rabbit trail but let's go let's get back on track to what you were let's get back on track to what you were let's get back on track to what you were saying. What does it actually look like?

saying. What does it actually look like? saying. What does it actually look like? So you were talking about this So you were talking about this So you were talking about this sacrificial love of others. What does it sacrificial love of others. What does it sacrificial love of others. What does it actually look like to in this topic of actually look like to in this topic of actually look like to in this topic of self-care and um and and denying self-care and um and and denying self-care and um and and denying ourselves? Where do others factor into ourselves? Where do others factor into ourselves? Where do others factor into this this this considering others as this this this considering others as this this this considering others as more significant than ourselves? Um more significant than ourselves? Um more significant than ourselves? Um because again, it can fall on either because again, it can fall on either because again, it can fall on either side of that coin, can't it? side of that coin, can't it? side of that coin, can't it? >> Yeah. I mean, and I think that's such an >> Yeah. I mean, and I think that's such an >> Yeah. I mean, and I think that's such an interesting question, like what does it interesting question, like what does it interesting question, like what does it actually mean? And I' I'd love to hear actually mean? And I' I'd love to hear actually mean? And I' I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, too. like because your thoughts on this, too. like because your thoughts on this, too. like because it's not just doing things for other it's not just doing things for other it's not just doing things for other people, right? Like that's service, but people, right? Like that's service, but people, right? Like that's service, but this is a little more powerful than that this is a little more powerful than that this is a little more powerful than that because it's actually denying ourselves. because it's actually denying ourselves. because it's actually denying ourselves. So, so it's it's kind of a little bit So, so it's it's kind of a little bit So, so it's it's kind of a little bit different, right? I mean, it's it's different, right? I mean, it's it's different, right? I mean, it's it's saying, "Oh, that money I was going to saying, "Oh, that money I was going to saying, "Oh, that money I was going to use for X, that was something I wanted, use for X, that was something I wanted, use for X, that was something I wanted, I'm now going to use for why." Yeah. I I'm now going to use for why." Yeah. I I'm now going to use for why." Yeah. I mean, this is one example of of mean, this is one example of of mean, this is one example of of something like, so I'm going to go something like, so I'm going to go something like, so I'm going to go without, you know, the new socks I without, you know, the new socks I without, you know, the new socks I wanted for my workout or whatever it wanted for my workout or whatever it wanted for my workout or whatever it might be. Um, so that I can give that to might be. Um, so that I can give that to might be. Um, so that I can give that to um whatever I really like this ministry um whatever I really like this ministry um whatever I really like this ministry I really want to support.

I really want to support. I really want to support. >> Um, and that is this really tangible >> Um, and that is this really tangible >> Um, and that is this really tangible way. And in that moment, you've said, way. And in that moment, you've said, way. And in that moment, you've said, "Oh yeah, I'm going to deny myself "Oh yeah, I'm going to deny myself "Oh yeah, I'm going to deny myself something I wanted and give it to something I wanted and give it to something I wanted and give it to someone else." And I think I think someone else." And I think I think someone else." And I think I think that's a really good practice in our in that's a really good practice in our in that's a really good practice in our in our Christian walk. Um and and man, our Christian walk. Um and and man, our Christian walk. Um and and man, here's what I can say. Um I don't feel here's what I can say. Um I don't feel here's what I can say. Um I don't feel like I do it enough. Or maybe this is like I do it enough. Or maybe this is like I do it enough. Or maybe this is the reality. When we were younger in the reality. When we were younger in the reality. When we were younger in ministry and really had no money, it ministry and really had no money, it ministry and really had no money, it felt more like a sacrifice like you know felt more like a sacrifice like you know felt more like a sacrifice like you know is a real sacrifice. the joy I think is a real sacrifice. the joy I think is a real sacrifice. the joy I think again we always forget that yes I am again we always forget that yes I am again we always forget that yes I am denying myself but I'm invited into this denying myself but I'm invited into this denying myself but I'm invited into this um [gasps] um [gasps] um [gasps] this beautiful joy of self-denial you this beautiful joy of self-denial you this beautiful joy of self-denial you know it's not just yes and and to get to know it's not just yes and and to get to know it's not just yes and and to get to see um how the Lord uses things like see um how the Lord uses things like see um how the Lord uses things like that you really do end up saying I feel that you really do end up saying I feel that you really do end up saying I feel like when we practice this you really do like when we practice this you really do like when we practice this you really do end up saying it's more blessed said to end up saying it's more blessed said to end up saying it's more blessed said to give than receive like you you give than receive like you you give than receive like you you experience the joy of that. So I want I experience the joy of that. So I want I experience the joy of that. So I want I always just want to highlight it's it is always just want to highlight it's it is always just want to highlight it's it is it is a gateway to joy but I think it is a gateway to joy but I think it is a gateway to joy but I think thinking of it is how how how am I thinking of it is how how how am I thinking of it is how how how am I actually denying myself to care for actually denying myself to care for actually denying myself to care for someone else or as um Philippians says someone else or as um Philippians says someone else or as um Philippians says and I'll ask you about this do so this and I'll ask you about this do so this and I'll ask you about this do so this is another way to do it do nothing from is another way to do it do nothing from is another way to do it do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit but in selfish ambition or conceit but in selfish ambition or conceit but in humility count others more significant

humility count others more significant humility count others more significant than yourselves so that's a little bit than yourselves so that's a little bit than yourselves so that's a little bit different one might be deny yourself you different one might be deny yourself you different one might be deny yourself you to care for someone else. This one is to care for someone else. This one is to care for someone else. This one is counting them more significant. What do counting them more significant. What do counting them more significant. What do you think that looks like daytoday? you think that looks like daytoday? you think that looks like daytoday? Yeah. I Well, I think the key there is Yeah. I Well, I think the key there is Yeah. I Well, I think the key there is humility. I feel like the last few years humility. I feel like the last few years humility. I feel like the last few years that has been a question that the Lord that has been a question that the Lord that has been a question that the Lord keeps bringing to my mind is to in any keeps bringing to my mind is to in any keeps bringing to my mind is to in any situation. So in you know in a um situation. So in you know in a um situation. So in you know in a um altercation or you know confrontation or altercation or you know confrontation or altercation or you know confrontation or disagreement with a friend or family disagreement with a friend or family disagreement with a friend or family member like okay what does it look like member like okay what does it look like member like okay what does it look like to walk in the humility of Christ in to walk in the humility of Christ in to walk in the humility of Christ in this or um what would humility in this this or um what would humility in this this or um what would humility in this situation look like? And he just keeps situation look like? And he just keeps situation look like? And he just keeps the Lord just keeps bringing that back the Lord just keeps bringing that back the Lord just keeps bringing that back to me. And so I think this idea of to me. And so I think this idea of to me. And so I think this idea of humility and counting others more humility and counting others more humility and counting others more significant can really play out in a lot significant can really play out in a lot significant can really play out in a lot of ways. I think about um friends that of ways. I think about um friends that of ways. I think about um friends that um I have a friend right now that's um I have a friend right now that's um I have a friend right now that's going through just a a really horrific going through just a a really horrific going through just a a really horrific time in her family of origin and I'm time in her family of origin and I'm time in her family of origin and I'm watching how humility what it looks like watching how humility what it looks like watching how humility what it looks like as she navigates that fine line between as she navigates that fine line between as she navigates that fine line between because I I think the world would say because I I think the world would say because I I think the world would say like in any given situation you stand up like in any given situation you stand up like in any given situation you stand up for your rights. You make sure that your for your rights. You make sure that your for your rights. You make sure that your voice is heard. You make sure that your voice is heard. You make sure that your voice is heard. You make sure that your perspective is understood. And I can perspective is understood. And I can perspective is understood. And I can really grab hold of that in my heart.

really grab hold of that in my heart. really grab hold of that in my heart. Like I I can't stand for my perspective Like I I can't stand for my perspective Like I I can't stand for my perspective to not be understood. I want to be I to not be understood. I want to be I to not be understood. I want to be I mean that's just like I want somebody to mean that's just like I want somebody to mean that's just like I want somebody to understand like why I would say that or understand like why I would say that or understand like why I would say that or why I would do that. But I think this why I would do that. But I think this why I would do that. But I think this humility at times calls us to say maybe humility at times calls us to say maybe humility at times calls us to say maybe them understanding me is not the most them understanding me is not the most them understanding me is not the most important thing. But maybe the most important thing. But maybe the most important thing. But maybe the most important thing is that I work to important thing is that I work to important thing is that I work to understand them and that I stand in a understand them and that I stand in a understand them and that I stand in a place that I can absorb the offense um place that I can absorb the offense um place that I can absorb the offense um or absorb the misunderstanding or absorb the misunderstanding or absorb the misunderstanding and and and it's so hard to do that. Um, and and and it's so hard to do that. Um, and and and it's so hard to do that. Um, and and even I'd say it's hard not only and and even I'd say it's hard not only and and even I'd say it's hard not only in like the moment, but also afterwards in like the moment, but also afterwards in like the moment, but also afterwards in the the thinking, the spiraling of in the the thinking, the spiraling of in the the thinking, the spiraling of the thinking of like, golly, well, if the thinking of like, golly, well, if the thinking of like, golly, well, if they just, you know, had said this or if they just, you know, had said this or if they just, you know, had said this or if I could have just said this, but there I could have just said this, but there I could have just said this, but there is this sense of like, wow, what if what is this sense of like, wow, what if what is this sense of like, wow, what if what if what they're going through is more if what they're going through is more if what they're going through is more significant than what I'm going through.

significant than what I'm going through. significant than what I'm going through. And so, so yeah, I just love that Paul And so, so yeah, I just love that Paul And so, so yeah, I just love that Paul ties those two concepts together that it ties those two concepts together that it ties those two concepts together that it takes humility in the moment to actually takes humility in the moment to actually takes humility in the moment to actually do this thing and count others more do this thing and count others more do this thing and count others more significant than yourselves. I think significant than yourselves. I think significant than yourselves. I think that and we're going to get into this in that and we're going to get into this in that and we're going to get into this in in a minute, but the the boundary in a minute, but the the boundary in a minute, but the the boundary conversation conversation conversation um what role does humility play in the um what role does humility play in the um what role does humility play in the boundary conversation? So, I think we boundary conversation? So, I think we boundary conversation? So, I think we should take a little break for uh a word should take a little break for uh a word should take a little break for uh a word from our sponsors and we will come back from our sponsors and we will come back from our sponsors and we will come back and we will we will talk about that. and we will we will talk about that. and we will we will talk about that. We're going to continue talking about We're going to continue talking about We're going to continue talking about this tension between uh how we do this tension between uh how we do this tension between uh how we do self-care and how we also live a life of self-care and how we also live a life of self-care and how we also live a life of self-sacrifice. So, we'll be back in a self-sacrifice. So, we'll be back in a self-sacrifice. So, we'll be back in a minute. Welcome back. Um I Courtney I'm minute. Welcome back. Um I Courtney I'm minute. Welcome back. Um I Courtney I'm really enjoying this conversation and really enjoying this conversation and really enjoying this conversation and what what you were just saying made me what what you were just saying made me what what you were just saying made me really start to think some practical really start to think some practical really start to think some practical things um where it can be things um where it can be things um where it can be ju just a way to lay our lives down. So ju just a way to lay our lives down. So ju just a way to lay our lives down. So I think about when I was in college and I think about when I was in college and I think about when I was in college and had roommates and you know and they had roommates and you know and they had roommates and you know and they would this inevitably happens you know would this inevitably happens you know would this inevitably happens you know there's a lot left in the sink that you there's a lot left in the sink that you there's a lot left in the sink that you didn't use when you were cooking and didn't use when you were cooking and didn't use when you were cooking and sometimes you just humbly clean them.

sometimes you just humbly clean them. sometimes you just humbly clean them. Now, sometimes you may need to confront, Now, sometimes you may need to confront, Now, sometimes you may need to confront, we're going to get into the tensions on we're going to get into the tensions on we're going to get into the tensions on this, you know, of life, but but I do this, you know, of life, but but I do this, you know, of life, but but I do think there is this practical ways in think there is this practical ways in think there is this practical ways in our the people you're living with every our the people you're living with every our the people you're living with every day are probably the hardest to do this day are probably the hardest to do this day are probably the hardest to do this with. I think like let me tell you, if with. I think like let me tell you, if with. I think like let me tell you, if you came over to my house, Courtney, I you came over to my house, Courtney, I you came over to my house, Courtney, I would be like, "Oh, don't do the dishes. would be like, "Oh, don't do the dishes. would be like, "Oh, don't do the dishes. I'll get those for you. I'm so nice and I'll get those for you. I'm so nice and I'll get those for you. I'm so nice and self- serving." Um, [snorts] the people self- serving." Um, [snorts] the people self- serving." Um, [snorts] the people who live with me regularly, you know. who live with me regularly, you know. who live with me regularly, you know. No, you know, you put your dishes in the No, you know, you put your dishes in the No, you know, you put your dishes in the don't put them in the sink, put them in don't put them in the sink, put them in don't put them in the sink, put them in the dishwasher. So, so how practically the dishwasher. So, so how practically the dishwasher. So, so how practically can we do this well with the people can we do this well with the people can we do this well with the people closest to us? You know, I mean, because closest to us? You know, I mean, because closest to us? You know, I mean, because I think that is sometimes where the I think that is sometimes where the I think that is sometimes where the rubber meets the road. We It is hard to rubber meets the road. We It is hard to rubber meets the road. We It is hard to in humility consider others better than in humility consider others better than in humility consider others better than ourselves. Are there some practical ourselves. Are there some practical ourselves. Are there some practical things you can think of? Well, I'm just things you can think of? Well, I'm just things you can think of? Well, I'm just laughing at the example because you know laughing at the example because you know laughing at the example because you know kind of what my life right now is where kind of what my life right now is where kind of what my life right now is where I've had um two adult children, their I've had um two adult children, their I've had um two adult children, their spouses, their children, their dogs, spouses, their children, their dogs, spouses, their children, their dogs, everybody moved back in for kind of the everybody moved back in for kind of the everybody moved back in for kind of the unforeseable generational living unforeseable generational living unforeseable generational living >> and we have multif family, >> and we have multif family, >> and we have multif family, multigenerational living and it is multigenerational living and it is multigenerational living and it is incredible and we are having so much incredible and we are having so much incredible and we are having so much fun. But I'm laughing over the dishes in fun. But I'm laughing over the dishes in fun. But I'm laughing over the dishes in the sink because yeah, that's um but the sink because yeah, that's um but the sink because yeah, that's um but I've actually been so impressed with my I've actually been so impressed with my I've actually been so impressed with my adult children and their spouses the way adult children and their spouses the way adult children and their spouses the way they have been sacrificially just they have been sacrificially just they have been sacrificially just jumping in and and kind of doing the jumping in and and kind of doing the jumping in and and kind of doing the thing. But even navigating my own heart thing. But even navigating my own heart thing. But even navigating my own heart in it, there are times that it's like,

in it, there are times that it's like, in it, there are times that it's like, you know, why do we have to wait till you know, why do we have to wait till you know, why do we have to wait till the end of the day to, you know, the end of the day to, you know, the end of the day to, you know, [laughter] clean the dishes? Why can't [laughter] clean the dishes? Why can't [laughter] clean the dishes? Why can't they be done? I mean, it's just it's in they be done? I mean, it's just it's in they be done? I mean, it's just it's in us, right? like this this sense of us, right? like this this sense of us, right? like this this sense of justice instead of and I will say this justice instead of and I will say this justice instead of and I will say this is where my husband absolutely shines is where my husband absolutely shines is where my husband absolutely shines his willingness to just go behind his willingness to just go behind his willingness to just go behind everybody and do the unseen thing that everybody and do the unseen thing that everybody and do the unseen thing that serves other people. And it's an example serves other people. And it's an example serves other people. And it's an example to me. It's not um it is something I to me. It's not um it is something I to me. It's not um it is something I have to work really hard at to do. And have to work really hard at to do. And have to work really hard at to do. And so yeah, again I think self-awareness is so yeah, again I think self-awareness is so yeah, again I think self-awareness is a good thing to know where um where your a good thing to know where um where your a good thing to know where um where your like natural inclination goes because like natural inclination goes because like natural inclination goes because again and I am not accusing my husband again and I am not accusing my husband again and I am not accusing my husband of this but you know that idea of going of this but you know that idea of going of this but you know that idea of going behind can turn into the kind of selft behind can turn into the kind of selft behind can turn into the kind of selft talk of like I am just a servant. I am talk of like I am just a servant. I am talk of like I am just a servant. I am such a such a servant of the Lord and such a such a servant of the Lord and such a such a servant of the Lord and I'm getting I'm getting I'm getting that's not going to be my selft talk that's not going to be my selft talk that's not going to be my selft talk ever [laughter] ever [laughter] ever [laughter] >> or a quiet internal bitterness. uh you >> or a quiet internal bitterness. uh you >> or a quiet internal bitterness. uh you know um know um know um >> exactly >> exactly >> exactly >> uh why isn't anyone noticing that I'm >> uh why isn't anyone noticing that I'm >> uh why isn't anyone noticing that I'm doing all this behind the scenes and doing all this behind the scenes and doing all this behind the scenes and they think there's a magic fairy that they think there's a magic fairy that they think there's a magic fairy that you know like I can give you the selft you know like I can give you the selft you know like I can give you the selft talk [laughter] talk [laughter] talk [laughter] >> if you want to know the sinful selft >> if you want to know the sinful selft >> if you want to know the sinful selft talk and and that's really pride in a talk and and that's really pride in a talk and and that's really pride in a different way rather than self-denial it different way rather than self-denial it different way rather than self-denial it it's just you know rather than just it's it's just you know rather than just it's it's just you know rather than just it's really different than joyfully saying in

really different than joyfully saying in really different than joyfully saying in my heart and I I I have seen the Lord my heart and I I I have seen the Lord my heart and I I I have seen the Lord work on me in this I'm so thankful I work on me in this I'm so thankful I work on me in this I'm so thankful I have these people in my home to do this have these people in my home to do this have these people in my home to do this with, you know, I mean, and that's like with, you know, I mean, and that's like with, you know, I mean, and that's like what a gift you've given me to get to do what a gift you've given me to get to do what a gift you've given me to get to do this. And that or um and and you know, I this. And that or um and and you know, I this. And that or um and and you know, I I can say this in caring for aging I can say this in caring for aging I can say this in caring for aging parents. Um, and you know, I lost my mom parents. Um, and you know, I lost my mom parents. Um, and you know, I lost my mom this fall and the the act of I I this fall and the the act of I I this fall and the the act of I I remember, you know, uh, she got so her remember, you know, uh, she got so her remember, you know, uh, she got so her lip your lips get so dry, you know, you lip your lips get so dry, you know, you lip your lips get so dry, you know, you can't cuz you can't take any liquid in. can't cuz you can't take any liquid in. can't cuz you can't take any liquid in. And so we're sponging her, you know, And so we're sponging her, you know, And so we're sponging her, you know, water. And that was a privilege. I could water. And that was a privilege. I could water. And that was a privilege. I could say at every moment, this is such a say at every moment, this is such a say at every moment, this is such a privilege to get to be here. Um and and privilege to get to be here. Um and and privilege to get to be here. Um and and that's how we want to look at this um that's how we want to look at this um that's how we want to look at this um giving to others with that humility of giving to others with that humility of giving to others with that humility of even just recognizing the humanity even just recognizing the humanity even just recognizing the humanity that's around us and what a what a great that's around us and what a what a great that's around us and what a what a great thing that my hands work and I can do thing that my hands work and I can do thing that my hands work and I can do this. Like sometimes we forget to just this. Like sometimes we forget to just this. Like sometimes we forget to just thank the Lord. I can carry the laundry thank the Lord. I can carry the laundry thank the Lord. I can carry the laundry up the stairs. Thank you for giving me up the stairs. Thank you for giving me up the stairs. Thank you for giving me strong legs and arms to do that. you strong legs and arms to do that. you strong legs and arms to do that. you know, rather than grumbling in our know, rather than grumbling in our know, rather than grumbling in our souls, h the laundry again, like why do souls, h the laundry again, like why do souls, h the laundry again, like why do these people keep getting dressed every these people keep getting dressed every these people keep getting dressed every day? That's I've been both both places.

day? That's I've been both both places. day? That's I've been both both places. So, I I I think it's just something that So, I I I think it's just something that So, I I I think it's just something that we have to work on even in our we have to work on even in our we have to work on even in our self-giving, even in our self-denying. self-giving, even in our self-denying. self-giving, even in our self-denying. um doing it with a heart of gratitude, um doing it with a heart of gratitude, um doing it with a heart of gratitude, doing it with a heart of expectation doing it with a heart of expectation doing it with a heart of expectation that the Lord has something for us in that the Lord has something for us in that the Lord has something for us in our self-denial that is right and good our self-denial that is right and good our self-denial that is right and good and and that he uses this um rather than and and that he uses this um rather than and and that he uses this um rather than a martyr complex which is really a martyr complex which is really a martyr complex which is really different and just as self focused as different and just as self focused as different and just as self focused as self-care. I mean both of those come self-care. I mean both of those come self-care. I mean both of those come from the same root of look at me, look from the same root of look at me, look from the same root of look at me, look at me, care for me or you know I have to at me, care for me or you know I have to at me, care for me or you know I have to be the one to care for everyone. So be the one to care for everyone. So be the one to care for everyone. So okay, how do you live with the tension okay, how do you live with the tension okay, how do you live with the tension of both of these in your life? Like h of both of these in your life? Like h of both of these in your life? Like h how do we become one? We have to discern how do we become one? We have to discern how do we become one? We have to discern two things. We have to discern what is two things. We have to discern what is two things. We have to discern what is our natural tendency and you've already our natural tendency and you've already our natural tendency and you've already spoken to that a little bit. Like but I spoken to that a little bit. Like but I spoken to that a little bit. Like but I think that's a question. How do I think that's a question. How do I think that's a question. How do I discern which side I kind of fall off discern which side I kind of fall off discern which side I kind of fall off on? And then how do we discern on? And then how do we discern on? And then how do we discern um once we know that about ourselves? um once we know that about ourselves? um once we know that about ourselves? How do we then discern, hey, this is a How do we then discern, hey, this is a How do we then discern, hey, this is a time you need to deny yourself and care time you need to deny yourself and care time you need to deny yourself and care for someone else or no, this is a time for someone else or no, this is a time for someone else or no, this is a time actually you need to take 30 minutes and actually you need to take 30 minutes and actually you need to take 30 minutes and you need to go spend some time with the you need to go spend some time with the you need to go spend some time with the Lord in prayer. You need to get up on Lord in prayer. You need to get up on Lord in prayer. You need to get up on the mountain by yourself. Uh how do you the mountain by yourself. Uh how do you the mountain by yourself. Uh how do you how what advice would you give? What how what advice would you give? What how what advice would you give? What principles would you help people think principles would you help people think principles would you help people think through as they're making those through as they're making those through as they're making those discerning decisions?

discerning decisions? discerning decisions? Well, I think I love the I love that you Well, I think I love the I love that you Well, I think I love the I love that you use the word discern because it is it's use the word discern because it is it's use the word discern because it is it's a wisdom issue and and so it is that and a wisdom issue and and so it is that and a wisdom issue and and so it is that and and I think it's holding these two and I think it's holding these two and I think it's holding these two things before the Lord. You know, the things before the Lord. You know, the things before the Lord. You know, the reality is they both start with the word reality is they both start with the word reality is they both start with the word self, self-care, self-sacrifice. self, self-care, self-sacrifice. self, self-care, self-sacrifice. And and so there is something that we And and so there is something that we And and so there is something that we need to move beyond that, right? that need to move beyond that, right? that need to move beyond that, right? that that that even if it's always about that that even if it's always about that that even if it's always about self, that should be a little bit of a self, that should be a little bit of a self, that should be a little bit of a warning flag that, you know, a little warning flag that, you know, a little warning flag that, you know, a little bit of a red light that like, okay, bit of a red light that like, okay, bit of a red light that like, okay, maybe maybe the the ultimate lens that maybe maybe the the ultimate lens that maybe maybe the the ultimate lens that I'm going to look through is not um I'm going to look through is not um I'm going to look through is not um going to be self anything but but the going to be self anything but but the going to be self anything but but the Lord and what is he doing? I do think Lord and what is he doing? I do think Lord and what is he doing? I do think that this idea of lifting our eyes again that this idea of lifting our eyes again that this idea of lifting our eyes again to not just the character of the Lord to not just the character of the Lord to not just the character of the Lord but the will of the Lord, the ways of but the will of the Lord, the ways of but the will of the Lord, the ways of the Lord. And so the Lord is the Lord. And so the Lord is the Lord. And so the Lord is it's so easy to think that his will for it's so easy to think that his will for it's so easy to think that his will for our lives is to make us comfy and happy our lives is to make us comfy and happy our lives is to make us comfy and happy and again kind of that health and and again kind of that health and and again kind of that health and wealth, you know, that that's his wealth, you know, that that's his wealth, you know, that that's his greatest will for our lives. And I would greatest will for our lives. And I would greatest will for our lives. And I would say it it's not like he's kind and he say it it's not like he's kind and he say it it's not like he's kind and he does those things, but he's actually the does those things, but he's actually the does those things, but he's actually the greatest will that he has for us is to greatest will that he has for us is to greatest will that he has for us is to join him on his mission. That he is join him on his mission. That he is join him on his mission. That he is seeking and saving the lost. That he is seeking and saving the lost. That he is seeking and saving the lost. That he is redeeming a people for himself. That he redeeming a people for himself. That he redeeming a people for himself. That he is restoring the entirety of his

is restoring the entirety of his is restoring the entirety of his creation and he invites us to creation and he invites us to creation and he invites us to participate in that. And so I if our if participate in that. And so I if our if participate in that. And so I if our if our worlds are getting really small and our worlds are getting really small and our worlds are getting really small and everything is becoming about about us everything is becoming about about us everything is becoming about about us and our our little worlds were becoming and our our little worlds were becoming and our our little worlds were becoming really myopic then then I would say the really myopic then then I would say the really myopic then then I would say the anecdote like that's a red flag and the anecdote like that's a red flag and the anecdote like that's a red flag and the anecdote is to is to lift our eyes and anecdote is to is to lift our eyes and anecdote is to is to lift our eyes and to remind ourselves that the Lord is on to remind ourselves that the Lord is on to remind ourselves that the Lord is on a a greater mission than um just our you a a greater mission than um just our you a a greater mission than um just our you know should I get a pedicure or should I know should I get a pedicure or should I know should I get a pedicure or should I take a nap or should I go make dinner take a nap or should I go make dinner take a nap or should I go make dinner for somebody? I you know what I mean? for somebody? I you know what I mean? for somebody? I you know what I mean? Like there's that probably wasn't a Like there's that probably wasn't a Like there's that probably wasn't a really great example, but just that idea really great example, but just that idea really great example, but just that idea that he is um about something so much that he is um about something so much that he is um about something so much more and we get to join him. So what more and we get to join him. So what more and we get to join him. So what about you? What principles do you use? about you? What principles do you use? about you? What principles do you use? How are you how do you discern um How are you how do you discern um How are you how do you discern um between like what is he calling me to between like what is he calling me to between like what is he calling me to here? Because we need rest. We need here? Because we need rest. We need here? Because we need rest. We need we've already said that um and we need we've already said that um and we need we've already said that um and we need to be self self-sacrificial like we need to be self self-sacrificial like we need to be self self-sacrificial like we need both. And so how do we discern in any both. And so how do we discern in any both. And so how do we discern in any given situation? Yeah. Well, as someone given situation? Yeah. Well, as someone given situation? Yeah. Well, as someone who probably tends toward the well, the who probably tends toward the well, the who probably tends toward the well, the more I'm the more I'm uncomfortable, I more I'm the more I'm uncomfortable, I more I'm the more I'm uncomfortable, I must be living holier. Um, the things must be living holier. Um, the things must be living holier. Um, the things I've had to stop and pause and say, um, I've had to stop and pause and say, um, I've had to stop and pause and say, um, okay, consider my sleep habits. How am I okay, consider my sleep habits. How am I okay, consider my sleep habits. How am I sleeping? Um, consider uh my time with sleeping? Um, consider uh my time with sleeping? Um, consider uh my time with the Lord. This is a big this is a the Lord. This is a big this is a the Lord. This is a big this is a something I hold to. If I find that time something I hold to. If I find that time something I hold to. If I find that time with the Lord and I'm not getting to

with the Lord and I'm not getting to with the Lord and I'm not getting to scripture or prayer, it's just a big scripture or prayer, it's just a big scripture or prayer, it's just a big sign it's time to pull back. Something sign it's time to pull back. Something sign it's time to pull back. Something is off with you. And I mean, and the is off with you. And I mean, and the is off with you. And I mean, and the scriptures tell us that, right? You scriptures tell us that, right? You scriptures tell us that, right? You know, unless you abide in me and my know, unless you abide in me and my know, unless you abide in me and my words abide in you, uh yeah, it's not words abide in you, uh yeah, it's not words abide in you, uh yeah, it's not going to go well because apart from me, going to go well because apart from me, going to go well because apart from me, you can do nothing. So, this is the you can do nothing. So, this is the you can do nothing. So, this is the whole thing about even the self-denial. whole thing about even the self-denial. whole thing about even the self-denial. It has to be self-denial that's rooted It has to be self-denial that's rooted It has to be self-denial that's rooted in abiding in Jesus. So for me, if I in abiding in Jesus. So for me, if I in abiding in Jesus. So for me, if I find that I'm trying to work outside of find that I'm trying to work outside of find that I'm trying to work outside of that, it's always going to get real that, it's always going to get real that, it's always going to get real wonky and bad and I'm going to see my wonky and bad and I'm going to see my wonky and bad and I'm going to see my bitter heart. So the other thing is when bitter heart. So the other thing is when bitter heart. So the other thing is when I see bitterness in the service, that's I see bitterness in the service, that's I see bitterness in the service, that's also a sign, you know, hey, I need to go also a sign, you know, hey, I need to go also a sign, you know, hey, I need to go back to the Lord and get my heart right back to the Lord and get my heart right back to the Lord and get my heart right now. It might not be a sign I'm doing now. It might not be a sign I'm doing now. It might not be a sign I'm doing something wrong, but it's a sign something wrong, but it's a sign something wrong, but it's a sign something's wrong with me. [laughter] something's wrong with me. [laughter] something's wrong with me. [laughter] So I need to I need to go back and be So I need to I need to go back and be So I need to I need to go back and be prayerful about that. prayerful about that. prayerful about that. be in the word, repent. Sometimes it's be in the word, repent. Sometimes it's be in the word, repent. Sometimes it's just a call to repentance and then just a call to repentance and then just a call to repentance and then continue on. Um, but but I think there's continue on. Um, but but I think there's continue on. Um, but but I think there's always a good thing to do of pause and always a good thing to do of pause and always a good thing to do of pause and look at your schedule and and look at your schedule and and look at your schedule and and prayerfully make our decisions and and prayerfully make our decisions and and prayerfully make our decisions and and sometimes I think um I I I would just sometimes I think um I I I would just sometimes I think um I I I would just challenge one thing I would challenge challenge one thing I would challenge challenge one thing I would challenge sometimes we are deciding things sometimes we are deciding things sometimes we are deciding things constantly just through the lens of is constantly just through the lens of is constantly just through the lens of is this good for me? like, "Am I going to this good for me? like, "Am I going to this good for me? like, "Am I going to join a Bible study? Am I going to go to join a Bible study? Am I going to go to join a Bible study? Am I going to go to that women's event? Oh, I don't want to that women's event? Oh, I don't want to that women's event? Oh, I don't want to go, so I just don't go." And I want to go, so I just don't go." And I want to go, so I just don't go." And I want to push people into, you know, somebody at

push people into, you know, somebody at push people into, you know, somebody at that Bible study might need you there. that Bible study might need you there. that Bible study might need you there. Somebody um at that women's event that Somebody um at that women's event that Somebody um at that women's event that you're not really interested might need you're not really interested might need you're not really interested might need a new friend, and you might be able to a new friend, and you might be able to a new friend, and you might be able to welcome them in. So, I I think those are welcome them in. So, I I think those are welcome them in. So, I I think those are the things where I find both a challenge the things where I find both a challenge the things where I find both a challenge um to for me, you know, I'm a little um to for me, you know, I'm a little um to for me, you know, I'm a little hobbit. I'd like to stay home every hobbit. I'd like to stay home every hobbit. I'd like to stay home every night of the week. So, I have to night of the week. So, I have to night of the week. So, I have to internally challenge myself is yeah, I internally challenge myself is yeah, I internally challenge myself is yeah, I don't necessarily want to go to that don't necessarily want to go to that don't necessarily want to go to that Bible study, but it's important to be in Bible study, but it's important to be in Bible study, but it's important to be in part of the life of the church. You part of the life of the church. You part of the life of the church. You know, like I've heard people say, "I've know, like I've heard people say, "I've know, like I've heard people say, "I've got enough friends. I don't need any got enough friends. I don't need any got enough friends. I don't need any more friends." I'm like, "Well, great more friends." I'm like, "Well, great more friends." I'm like, "Well, great for you." for you." for you." >> But but you know, you might >> But but you know, you might >> But but you know, you might >> but maybe somebody else needs a friend. >> but maybe somebody else needs a friend. >> but maybe somebody else needs a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. And if you've got so many, maybe >> Yes. And if you've got so many, maybe >> Yes. And if you've got so many, maybe you could connect them to some of yours. you could connect them to some of yours. you could connect them to some of yours. Like I mean, so it's I I think we have Like I mean, so it's I I think we have Like I mean, so it's I I think we have to be constantly even thinking to be constantly even thinking to be constantly even thinking relationally. How can I care for the relationally. How can I care for the relationally. How can I care for the people in my midst neighborly? How can I people in my midst neighborly? How can I people in my midst neighborly? How can I be thinking about my neighbor, my actual be thinking about my neighbor, my actual be thinking about my neighbor, my actual physical neighbor in this um and and I physical neighbor in this um and and I physical neighbor in this um and and I think we tend towards self. All of us we think we tend towards self. All of us we think we tend towards self. All of us we do. Um and so I think it's good to start do. Um and so I think it's good to start do. Um and so I think it's good to start with time in the scriptures and time in with time in the scriptures and time in with time in the scriptures and time in prayer. it it's going to be our guide prayer. it it's going to be our guide prayer. it it's going to be our guide and it's going to help us discern and we and it's going to help us discern and we and it's going to help us discern and we do grow in discernment on these things.

do grow in discernment on these things. do grow in discernment on these things. We really really do. Um the people who We really really do. Um the people who We really really do. Um the people who struggle to say no will get better at it struggle to say no will get better at it struggle to say no will get better at it and the people who struggle to say a and the people who struggle to say a and the people who struggle to say a sacrificial yes will get better at it. sacrificial yes will get better at it. sacrificial yes will get better at it. But it's going to be through the Lord's But it's going to be through the Lord's But it's going to be through the Lord's work in our hearts. And that's where we work in our hearts. And that's where we work in our hearts. And that's where we want it to come from. Not outside guilt, want it to come from. Not outside guilt, want it to come from. Not outside guilt, but inner call. And I think that's when but inner call. And I think that's when but inner call. And I think that's when we're going to see it. And I want to we're going to see it. And I want to we're going to see it. And I want to park on that for just one minute because park on that for just one minute because park on that for just one minute because sometimes we will be called to sometimes we will be called to sometimes we will be called to sacrifices that other people are not sacrifices that other people are not sacrifices that other people are not called to. And this is where it's really called to. And this is where it's really called to. And this is where it's really important for us to understand. I may important for us to understand. I may important for us to understand. I may call be called to give up this Isaac in call be called to give up this Isaac in call be called to give up this Isaac in my life that's really my life that's really my life that's really costly and you may not and I can't look costly and you may not and I can't look costly and you may not and I can't look lesser on you, you know, or pridefully lesser on you, you know, or pridefully lesser on you, you know, or pridefully look at me. We have to say the Lord look at me. We have to say the Lord look at me. We have to say the Lord calls us all to different things. So, calls us all to different things. So, calls us all to different things. So, you know, you may be called to go uh you you know, you may be called to go uh you you know, you may be called to go uh you know, ser serve at the soup kitchen know, ser serve at the soup kitchen know, ser serve at the soup kitchen every Sunday and you could be like every Sunday and you could be like every Sunday and you could be like Melissa doesn't do it. She's not really Melissa doesn't do it. She's not really Melissa doesn't do it. She's not really very sac self-sacrificial.

very sac self-sacrificial. very sac self-sacrificial. This is where we have to on these things This is where we have to on these things This is where we have to on these things discern what is the Lord calling me to discern what is the Lord calling me to discern what is the Lord calling me to and he may call no one else to do what and he may call no one else to do what and he may call no one else to do what he's called us to. And and so there's he's called us to. And and so there's he's called us to. And and so there's got to be this settledness in our spirit got to be this settledness in our spirit got to be this settledness in our spirit that he is calling me to sacrifice in that he is calling me to sacrifice in that he is calling me to sacrifice in this way. If we look at the disciples, this way. If we look at the disciples, this way. If we look at the disciples, they had different callings, you know, they had different callings, you know, they had different callings, you know, and we see this in the gospel of John at and we see this in the gospel of John at and we see this in the gospel of John at the end, right? Peter's like looking the end, right? Peter's like looking the end, right? Peter's like looking over in John and saying, "Hey, what over in John and saying, "Hey, what over in John and saying, "Hey, what about him?" And he's kind of Jesus like, about him?" And he's kind of Jesus like, about him?" And he's kind of Jesus like, "Hey, hey, we're going to talk about you "Hey, hey, we're going to talk about you "Hey, hey, we're going to talk about you right now, Peter, and this is what it's right now, Peter, and this is what it's right now, Peter, and this is what it's going to go like for you." And so, I going to go like for you." And so, I going to go like for you." And so, I think that's a really important thing. think that's a really important thing. think that's a really important thing. John did end up living a long life. John did end up living a long life. John did end up living a long life. Peter didn't. We don't know what the Peter didn't. We don't know what the Peter didn't. We don't know what the Lord what sacrifices the Lord might call Lord what sacrifices the Lord might call Lord what sacrifices the Lord might call us to. We keep our eyes on Jesus and us to. We keep our eyes on Jesus and us to. We keep our eyes on Jesus and follow him either, you know, in all of follow him either, you know, in all of follow him either, you know, in all of these things. And so that for me is kind these things. And so that for me is kind these things. And so that for me is kind of the guiding principle is time with of the guiding principle is time with of the guiding principle is time with the Lord, listening in his word, and and the Lord, listening in his word, and and the Lord, listening in his word, and and really we have to be prayerful about really we have to be prayerful about really we have to be prayerful about these things because everyone's going to these things because everyone's going to these things because everyone's going to be called to to different things. And be called to to different things. And be called to to different things. And and I think that's that's what can make and I think that's that's what can make and I think that's that's what can make it uh you know kind of difficult at it uh you know kind of difficult at it uh you know kind of difficult at times.

times. times. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um okay, I want to jump into a really >> Um okay, I want to jump into a really >> Um okay, I want to jump into a really hard topic. hard topic. hard topic. >> Are you ready? >> Are you ready? >> Are you ready? >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Uh it's really popular right now um to >> Uh it's really popular right now um to >> Uh it's really popular right now um to have a lot of relational boundaries. have a lot of relational boundaries. have a lot of relational boundaries. And some of these are necessary. You And some of these are necessary. You And some of these are necessary. You know, we would all say some of these are know, we would all say some of these are know, we would all say some of these are really necessary. Um but it's it's a big really necessary. Um but it's it's a big really necessary. Um but it's it's a big part of the self-care conversation. part of the self-care conversation. part of the self-care conversation. How do we think about self-care and How do we think about self-care and How do we think about self-care and self-sacrifice when it comes to a really self-sacrifice when it comes to a really self-sacrifice when it comes to a really difficult person? Um, and I think there difficult person? Um, and I think there difficult person? Um, and I think there are different levels of this. So, there are different levels of this. So, there are different levels of this. So, there can be difficult people in our can be difficult people in our can be difficult people in our neighborhood that you're like, "Yeah, neighborhood that you're like, "Yeah, neighborhood that you're like, "Yeah, I'm just going to wave on by." There can I'm just going to wave on by." There can I'm just going to wave on by." There can be difficult people in our churches, but be difficult people in our churches, but be difficult people in our churches, but then we have families and there can be then we have families and there can be then we have families and there can be difficult people in our families. And difficult people in our families. And difficult people in our families. And then we have our nuclear family. And you then we have our nuclear family. And you then we have our nuclear family. And you know, there's different scriptural calls know, there's different scriptural calls know, there's different scriptural calls on honoring your parents even after on honoring your parents even after on honoring your parents even after you've left their home. How do we think you've left their home. How do we think you've left their home. How do we think through through through um self-care, boundaries, and people in um self-care, boundaries, and people in um self-care, boundaries, and people in the world of whom we are all difficult?

the world of whom we are all difficult? the world of whom we are all difficult? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Well, and I think that this absolutely Well, and I think that this absolutely Well, and I think that this absolutely falls in this conversation because I falls in this conversation because I falls in this conversation because I think that's really where the boundary think that's really where the boundary think that's really where the boundary conversation originated. And I feel like conversation originated. And I feel like conversation originated. And I feel like it really kind of uh started in the '9s, it really kind of uh started in the '9s, it really kind of uh started in the '9s, you know, and there was a book about you know, and there was a book about you know, and there was a book about boundaries and helpful, right? I mean, boundaries and helpful, right? I mean, boundaries and helpful, right? I mean, there are times that we need to draw there are times that we need to draw there are times that we need to draw boundaries, but I remember even then boundaries, but I remember even then boundaries, but I remember even then thinking, I don't think we're called to thinking, I don't think we're called to thinking, I don't think we're called to build brick walls. I think we're called build brick walls. I think we're called build brick walls. I think we're called to draw lines in the sand. And people to draw lines in the sand. And people to draw lines in the sand. And people tend to think a boundary is a brick tend to think a boundary is a brick tend to think a boundary is a brick wall, like I'm done with you, like wall, like I'm done with you, like wall, like I'm done with you, like you're dead to me kind of thing. And and you're dead to me kind of thing. And and you're dead to me kind of thing. And and I think depending on the the necessity, I think depending on the the necessity, I think depending on the the necessity, the cause of the need for a boundary um the cause of the need for a boundary um the cause of the need for a boundary um dictates what that needs to look like. dictates what that needs to look like. dictates what that needs to look like. But again, so there's nothing But again, so there's nothing But again, so there's nothing prescriptive here, right? There are prescriptive here, right? There are prescriptive here, right? There are there are situations that you are called there are situations that you are called there are situations that you are called to protect your children or other from to protect your children or other from to protect your children or other from somebody who is damaging and harmful. I somebody who is damaging and harmful. I somebody who is damaging and harmful. I mean there are all sorts of um reasons mean there are all sorts of um reasons mean there are all sorts of um reasons that the boundaries need to be a lot that the boundaries need to be a lot that the boundaries need to be a lot stronger but I do think there is a stronger but I do think there is a stronger but I do think there is a general a general push towards general a general push towards general a general push towards um over boundarying people you know over um over boundarying people you know over um over boundarying people you know over self-caring in this that that your needs self-caring in this that that your needs self-caring in this that that your needs are the so again I'm not talking about are the so again I'm not talking about are the so again I'm not talking about these situations where there is abuse or these situations where there is abuse or these situations where there is abuse or there is great harm at stake I'm talking there is great harm at stake I'm talking there is great harm at stake I'm talking about just difficult people that we about just difficult people that we about just difficult people that we would probably prefer not to be around.

would probably prefer not to be around. would probably prefer not to be around. And I think the general the general push And I think the general the general push And I think the general the general push is to say you cut them off. That's a is to say you cut them off. That's a is to say you cut them off. That's a boundary you're drawing in your life. boundary you're drawing in your life. boundary you're drawing in your life. And it's all about you. And so I would And it's all about you. And so I would And it's all about you. And so I would just say again, it's a discernment just say again, it's a discernment just say again, it's a discernment issue. It's a wisdom issue, but it is issue. It's a wisdom issue, but it is issue. It's a wisdom issue, but it is worth asking the Lord about like what worth asking the Lord about like what worth asking the Lord about like what should this look like? And where am I should this look like? And where am I should this look like? And where am I protecting and preserving self in a way protecting and preserving self in a way protecting and preserving self in a way that is unbiblical? A way that I can that is unbiblical? A way that I can that is unbiblical? A way that I can actually ask you, Lord, to protect me in actually ask you, Lord, to protect me in actually ask you, Lord, to protect me in this. And I can actually ask you, Lord, this. And I can actually ask you, Lord, this. And I can actually ask you, Lord, to be the one that sees me in this and to be the one that sees me in this and to be the one that sees me in this and that understands me in this. And I can that understands me in this. And I can that understands me in this. And I can ask you to continue doing a good work in ask you to continue doing a good work in ask you to continue doing a good work in me in the midst of this really difficult me in the midst of this really difficult me in the midst of this really difficult thing that you're asking me to walk with thing that you're asking me to walk with thing that you're asking me to walk with nuance and with wisdom. And so, so nuance and with wisdom. And so, so nuance and with wisdom. And so, so again, it's knowing yourself. If you again, it's knowing yourself. If you again, it's knowing yourself. If you have zero boundaries whatsoever with have zero boundaries whatsoever with have zero boundaries whatsoever with people who are damaging and harmful, people who are damaging and harmful, people who are damaging and harmful, then then that's not necessarily um then then that's not necessarily um then then that's not necessarily um emotional health. And I had said at the emotional health. And I had said at the emotional health. And I had said at the beginning, I think there's this beginning, I think there's this beginning, I think there's this connection. They're not the same thing, connection. They're not the same thing, connection. They're not the same thing, but between emotional health and but between emotional health and but between emotional health and spiritual maturity. And I think that we spiritual maturity. And I think that we spiritual maturity. And I think that we can be sanctified and not grow in can be sanctified and not grow in can be sanctified and not grow in emotional health. But I think it is very emotional health. But I think it is very emotional health. But I think it is very hard to grow in emotional health and not hard to grow in emotional health and not hard to grow in emotional health and not be growing in sanctification at the same be growing in sanctification at the same be growing in sanctification at the same time. Um, I I think that our emotional time. Um, I I think that our emotional time. Um, I I think that our emotional health actually aids our sanctification.

health actually aids our sanctification. health actually aids our sanctification. And so to become more self-aware, to And so to become more self-aware, to And so to become more self-aware, to become more emotionally healthy, to to become more emotionally healthy, to to become more emotionally healthy, to to start recognizing where we're demanding start recognizing where we're demanding start recognizing where we're demanding someone else meet our needs or or, you someone else meet our needs or or, you someone else meet our needs or or, you know, satisfy this thing in us that only know, satisfy this thing in us that only know, satisfy this thing in us that only the Lord can satisfy. I think that those the Lord can satisfy. I think that those the Lord can satisfy. I think that those are just really great places to to go to are just really great places to to go to are just really great places to to go to the Psalms and to cry out to the Lord the Psalms and to cry out to the Lord the Psalms and to cry out to the Lord and ask the Lord to meet us in um in all and ask the Lord to meet us in um in all and ask the Lord to meet us in um in all of those situations. So again, it's of those situations. So again, it's of those situations. So again, it's wisdom. It is not what we're saying here wisdom. It is not what we're saying here wisdom. It is not what we're saying here is not prescriptive. It's going to be is not prescriptive. It's going to be is not prescriptive. It's going to be you need to have those conversations in you need to have those conversations in you need to have those conversations in the council of real life friends who the council of real life friends who the council of real life friends who know the entirety of the situation. But know the entirety of the situation. But know the entirety of the situation. But it is worth considering that a boundary it is worth considering that a boundary it is worth considering that a boundary may have pushed self-care too far. Um I may have pushed self-care too far. Um I may have pushed self-care too far. Um I think that that we see that. think that that we see that. think that that we see that. >> Yeah. I think we have to have our >> Yeah. I think we have to have our >> Yeah. I think we have to have our identity so rooted in Christ that we identity so rooted in Christ that we identity so rooted in Christ that we just can be a little less sensitive. I just can be a little less sensitive. I just can be a little less sensitive. I mean I I think there's the reality mean I I think there's the reality mean I I think there's the reality >> say that again. >> say that again. >> say that again. >> You know there's the reality in families >> You know there's the reality in families >> You know there's the reality in families in particular. People are not going to in particular. People are not going to in particular. People are not going to always say things the best way. Like I always say things the best way. Like I always say things the best way. Like I can remember my grandmother and [snorts] can remember my grandmother and [snorts] can remember my grandmother and [snorts] this would probably be so inappropriate this would probably be so inappropriate this would probably be so inappropriate now. So who knows if this will make the now. So who knows if this will make the now. So who knows if this will make the cut. Um but she would like I remember my cut. Um but she would like I remember my cut. Um but she would like I remember my mom walking in the room. This is so this mom walking in the room. This is so this mom walking in the room. This is so this is her mother-in-law.

is her mother-in-law. is her mother-in-law. >> I know what you're going to say. >> I know what you're going to say. >> I know what you're going to say. >> This is her mother-in-law and she would >> This is her mother-in-law and she would >> This is her mother-in-law and she would walk in and she'd be like, "Oh, Anita, walk in and she'd be like, "Oh, Anita, walk in and she'd be like, "Oh, Anita, you've gained." you've gained." you've gained." And [snorts] And [snorts] And [snorts] like it it is that you know and and my like it it is that you know and and my like it it is that you know and and my mom just would be like, "Oh, what you mom just would be like, "Oh, what you mom just would be like, "Oh, what you going to do with that? I've guess I've going to do with that? I've guess I've going to do with that? I've guess I've gained, gained, gained, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, but we can get in relationship >> You know, but we can get in relationship >> You know, but we can get in relationship with her. with her. with her. >> Yes. And didn't get flustered about it. >> Yes. And didn't get flustered about it. >> Yes. And didn't get flustered about it. And this is where we have to be like, And this is where we have to be like, And this is where we have to be like, okay, you know, whatever. People are okay, you know, whatever. People are okay, you know, whatever. People are going to say, going to say, going to say, you know, off things, particularly in you know, off things, particularly in you know, off things, particularly in families that we just at some level have families that we just at some level have families that we just at some level have to be like, well, sometimes it's about to be like, well, sometimes it's about to be like, well, sometimes it's about them, [laughter] like their issues are them, [laughter] like their issues are them, [laughter] like their issues are coming out. Um, but also just to be so coming out. Um, but also just to be so coming out. Um, but also just to be so firmly rooted in Christ that we're like, firmly rooted in Christ that we're like, firmly rooted in Christ that we're like, "Oh, okay. I'm gonna just take that." "Oh, okay. I'm gonna just take that." "Oh, okay. I'm gonna just take that." >> And you're right, grandma. I have >> And you're right, grandma. I have >> And you're right, grandma. I have [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> rather than, you know, we can take such >> rather than, you know, we can take such >> rather than, you know, we can take such offense. And it is the glory of God to offense. And it is the glory of God to offense. And it is the glory of God to overlook an offense. So I think we need overlook an offense. So I think we need overlook an offense. So I think we need to understand where it's just right and to understand where it's just right and to understand where it's just right and good to overlook an offense and and and good to overlook an offense and and and good to overlook an offense and and and think the best of others in in our lives think the best of others in in our lives think the best of others in in our lives rather than cases where it is actually rather than cases where it is actually rather than cases where it is actually dangerous dangerous dangerous um you know because of things that have um you know because of things that have um you know because of things that have happened um to be around people. Those happened um to be around people. Those happened um to be around people. Those are big differences. And I I also think are big differences. And I I also think are big differences. And I I also think when it comes to parents, I've watched when it comes to parents, I've watched when it comes to parents, I've watched um and and let me say this, honoring um and and let me say this, honoring um and and let me say this, honoring parents and loving family members does parents and loving family members does parents and loving family members does not mean we always do what makes them

not mean we always do what makes them not mean we always do what makes them happy. That's not what we're talking happy. That's not what we're talking happy. That's not what we're talking about in in self-denial. Um I have a about in in self-denial. Um I have a about in in self-denial. Um I have a dear friend who I watched love her mom dear friend who I watched love her mom dear friend who I watched love her mom so well. Um who had she struggled with so well. Um who had she struggled with so well. Um who had she struggled with drug addiction and she um she felt a drug addiction and she um she felt a drug addiction and she um she felt a real call from scripture. um to care for real call from scripture. um to care for real call from scripture. um to care for her well and to honor her well. That did her well and to honor her well. That did her well and to honor her well. That did not mean she always gave her what she not mean she always gave her what she not mean she always gave her what she wanted. Um you know, like especially wanted. Um you know, like especially wanted. Um you know, like especially with financial stuff and things like with financial stuff and things like with financial stuff and things like that, but she did until the day she that, but she did until the day she that, but she did until the day she died, she cared for her. Um and she she died, she cared for her. Um and she she died, she cared for her. Um and she she took it really seriously that call in took it really seriously that call in took it really seriously that call in her life to do even when it was really her life to do even when it was really her life to do even when it was really really hard to do. And I think there really hard to do. And I think there really hard to do. And I think there that's a place we can we can feel that that's a place we can we can feel that that's a place we can we can feel that call to self-denial to care for someone call to self-denial to care for someone call to self-denial to care for someone when you know it it was really um it was when you know it it was really um it was when you know it it was really um it was really difficult. It was really hard and really difficult. It was really hard and really difficult. It was really hard and and yet she did it really lovingly. Um and yet she did it really lovingly. Um and yet she did it really lovingly. Um again not always what what they want you again not always what what they want you again not always what what they want you know because especially when you're know because especially when you're know because especially when you're dealing with addiction I think we have dealing with addiction I think we have dealing with addiction I think we have to be really careful that what is loving to be really careful that what is loving to be really careful that what is loving and best is sometimes not what the and best is sometimes not what the and best is sometimes not what the person wants in in those cases. Um, and person wants in in those cases. Um, and person wants in in those cases. Um, and and that's where we need wisdom, you and that's where we need wisdom, you and that's where we need wisdom, you know, from a community to help us with know, from a community to help us with know, from a community to help us with with those things. Courtney, I want to with those things. Courtney, I want to with those things. Courtney, I want to close with one last question. We can be close with one last question. We can be close with one last question. We can be quick because this is just something quick because this is just something quick because this is just something that nags at me. Uh, hard day. Hard day that nags at me. Uh, hard day. Hard day that nags at me. Uh, hard day. Hard day happens. End of day. We just recorded happens. End of day. We just recorded happens. End of day. We just recorded eight episodes of deep dish. We're eight episodes of deep dish. We're eight episodes of deep dish. We're exhausted. [laughter]

>> I want a little treat. I want some deep >> I want a little treat. I want some deep dish pizza. Am I selfish? Is this okay? dish pizza. Am I selfish? Is this okay? dish pizza. Am I selfish? Is this okay? Is that Is that self-care? How do we how Is that Is that self-care? How do we how Is that Is that self-care? How do we how do we talk about that? Like I deserve do we talk about that? Like I deserve do we talk about that? Like I deserve deep dish, Courtney. I deserve it. deep dish, Courtney. I deserve it. deep dish, Courtney. I deserve it. >> Yes. Oh, I do this all the time. I mean, >> Yes. Oh, I do this all the time. I mean, >> Yes. Oh, I do this all the time. I mean, last night I was like, you know what? last night I was like, you know what? last night I was like, you know what? I'm going to have a little dessert. I'm I'm going to have a little dessert. I'm I'm going to have a little dessert. I'm going to have a little second piece of going to have a little second piece of going to have a little second piece of dessert because it was a long day dessert because it was a long day dessert because it was a long day yesterday. I was tired. And I actually yesterday. I was tired. And I actually yesterday. I was tired. And I actually as a so as a child when my mom would as a so as a child when my mom would as a so as a child when my mom would have these days and it was very rare have these days and it was very rare have these days and it was very rare that she did, but those were the nights that she did, but those were the nights that she did, but those were the nights we got pizza. And so I was always like, we got pizza. And so I was always like, we got pizza. And so I was always like, "Yes." Like there is she would and I I I "Yes." Like there is she would and I I I "Yes." Like there is she would and I I I just remember she was like, "You know just remember she was like, "You know just remember she was like, "You know what? We're just ordering pizza tonight. what? We're just ordering pizza tonight. what? We're just ordering pizza tonight. My mom cooks dinner every night." She My mom cooks dinner every night." She My mom cooks dinner every night." She was like, "We're ordering pizza was like, "We're ordering pizza was like, "We're ordering pizza tonight." My brother and I are like, tonight." My brother and I are like, tonight." My brother and I are like, "Yes." [laughter] "Yes." [laughter] "Yes." [laughter] So, I mean, again, right, like know So, I mean, again, right, like know So, I mean, again, right, like know yourself. If you are always having a yourself. If you are always having a yourself. If you are always having a hard day and you always need that little hard day and you always need that little hard day and you always need that little treat at night, um, whatever that is, or treat at night, um, whatever that is, or treat at night, um, whatever that is, or you know, you're just like, I I need you know, you're just like, I I need you know, you're just like, I I need another cruise. I need another whatever another cruise. I need another whatever another cruise. I need another whatever it is. I mean, then yeah, you're it is. I mean, then yeah, you're it is. I mean, then yeah, you're probably you're probably running to probably you're probably running to probably you're probably running to those things to find your rest. Um, at those things to find your rest. Um, at those things to find your rest. Um, at the same time, boy, isn't a night of the same time, boy, isn't a night of the same time, boy, isn't a night of pizza just especially when you haven't pizza just especially when you haven't pizza just especially when you haven't planned it and you're like, I'm not planned it and you're like, I'm not planned it and you're like, I'm not cooking tonight. I'm doing takeout. It's cooking tonight. I'm doing takeout. It's cooking tonight. I'm doing takeout. It's just it's such a gift from the Lord.

just it's such a gift from the Lord. just it's such a gift from the Lord. >> Yep. [laughter] >> Yep. [laughter] >> Yep. [laughter] So, wisdom and discernment again, know So, wisdom and discernment again, know So, wisdom and discernment again, know yourself. If you are overplaying that, yourself. If you are overplaying that, yourself. If you are overplaying that, uh, then you are probably looking to uh, then you are probably looking to uh, then you are probably looking to something to provide your rest that was something to provide your rest that was something to provide your rest that was not intended to. Okay, we're going to not intended to. Okay, we're going to not intended to. Okay, we're going to end with one little fun question. So, end with one little fun question. So, end with one little fun question. So, Melissa, is there some particular type Melissa, is there some particular type Melissa, is there some particular type of self-care that falls within the of self-care that falls within the of self-care that falls within the biblical definition that you've learned biblical definition that you've learned biblical definition that you've learned you should never overlook? And I will you should never overlook? And I will you should never overlook? And I will say first for me it's when my heels say first for me it's when my heels say first for me it's when my heels start getting scaly, you know, I need a start getting scaly, you know, I need a start getting scaly, you know, I need a pedicure. Like I need a pedicure. Like pedicure. Like I need a pedicure. Like pedicure. Like I need a pedicure. Like when it's like they're dry and scaly and when it's like they're dry and scaly and when it's like they're dry and scaly and the skin is like sorry that's so tmi but the skin is like sorry that's so tmi but the skin is like sorry that's so tmi but that is I should not overlook a good that is I should not overlook a good that is I should not overlook a good pedicure. What about you? pedicure. What about you? pedicure. What about you? >> I'm feeling my heel right now. I was >> I'm feeling my heel right now. I was >> I'm feeling my heel right now. I was actually going to say I actually hate actually going to say I actually hate actually going to say I actually hate the answer I'm going to give right now the answer I'm going to give right now the answer I'm going to give right now and everybody's going to kind of hate me and everybody's going to kind of hate me and everybody's going to kind of hate me but this is actually true. I I if I but this is actually true. I I if I but this is actually true. I I if I overlook exercise too long, it just overlook exercise too long, it just overlook exercise too long, it just doesn't go well. The rest of Melissa doesn't go well. The rest of Melissa doesn't go well. The rest of Melissa does not work well. I mean, like I can does not work well. I mean, like I can does not work well. I mean, like I can tell emotionally. Yeah. All the things tell emotionally. Yeah. All the things tell emotionally. Yeah. All the things do better. I sleep better at night when do better. I sleep better at night when do better. I sleep better at night when I've exercised. I hate this answer. Let I've exercised. I hate this answer. Let I've exercised. I hate this answer. Let me just say that. I hate this answer.

me just say that. I hate this answer. me just say that. I hate this answer. >> Well, it sure does make you look good. >> Well, it sure does make you look good. >> Well, it sure does make you look good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Does it? I mean, it's just like But I do >> Does it? I mean, it's just like But I do >> Does it? I mean, it's just like But I do know know know >> exercise and healthy eating. I can't >> exercise and healthy eating. I can't >> exercise and healthy eating. I can't overlook those two. overlook those two. overlook those two. >> I didn't I didn't put healthy eating in >> I didn't I didn't put healthy eating in >> I didn't I didn't put healthy eating in there. that when I'm not that's a bridge there. that when I'm not that's a bridge there. that when I'm not that's a bridge too far, Courtney, but it would probably too far, Courtney, but it would probably too far, Courtney, but it would probably make a difference. But I um I do notice make a difference. But I um I do notice make a difference. But I um I do notice like just I can be feeling down or sad like just I can be feeling down or sad like just I can be feeling down or sad about something and I I'll go for a walk about something and I I'll go for a walk about something and I I'll go for a walk and get outside in nature and I just, and get outside in nature and I just, and get outside in nature and I just, you know, it's it it helps. It it really you know, it's it it helps. It it really you know, it's it it helps. It it really does help. No, you're right. We love you does help. No, you're right. We love you does help. No, you're right. We love you for that answer. [laughter] for that answer. [laughter] for that answer. [laughter] And you are right. That's exactly what And you are right. That's exactly what And you are right. That's exactly what we should be doing. Okay. Well, friends, we should be doing. Okay. Well, friends, we should be doing. Okay. Well, friends, we hope that you have been encouraged by we hope that you have been encouraged by we hope that you have been encouraged by this episode of The Deep Dish from the this episode of The Deep Dish from the this episode of The Deep Dish from the Gospel Coalition. If you [music] have, Gospel Coalition. If you [music] have, Gospel Coalition. If you [music] have, please consider sharing it with others. please consider sharing it with others. please consider sharing it with others. Um, putting a comment in the in the Um, putting a comment in the in the Um, putting a comment in the in the notes, liking it. Uh, and we will see notes, liking it. Uh, and we will see notes, liking it. Uh, and we will see you next time on [music] the Deep Dish.