How to Use Confessions and Church Covenants in Ministry [The Everyday Pastor - Ep. 51]

If you're ready to go deeper in If you're ready to go deeper in theology, Southern Seminary's PhD theology, Southern Seminary's PhD theology, Southern Seminary's PhD programs were built for you with programs were built for you with programs were built for you with flexible formats from fully online to flexible formats from fully online to flexible formats from fully online to modular to in-person, Southern makes modular to in-person, Southern makes modular to in-person, Southern makes serious doctoral-level theological serious doctoral-level theological serious doctoral-level theological training accessible to the pastor called training accessible to the pastor called training accessible to the pastor called to bring the depth of God's word to to bring the depth of God's word to to bring the depth of God's word to God's people. Study with faculty God's people. Study with faculty God's people. Study with faculty committed to strengthening the church committed to strengthening the church committed to strengthening the church and bring that depth back to the people and bring that depth back to the people and bring that depth back to the people you lead. Visit sbts.edu/phd >> Because all of us go through >> Because all of us go through times of theological fads and tendencies times of theological fads and tendencies times of theological fads and tendencies that when we look back on we go, that when we look back on we go, that when we look back on we go, "Hmm, that wasn't so helpful." And the "Hmm, that wasn't so helpful." And the "Hmm, that wasn't so helpful." And the the confessions the confessions the confessions at their best at their best at their best uh keep us from falling prey to that. >> Welcome back friends to the everyday >> Welcome back friends to the everyday pastor, a podcast on the nuts and bolts pastor, a podcast on the nuts and bolts pastor, a podcast on the nuts and bolts of ministry from the Gospel Coalition.

of ministry from the Gospel Coalition. of ministry from the Gospel Coalition. My name is Matt Smethurst. My name is Matt Smethurst. My name is Matt Smethurst. >> And my name is Ligon Duncan. >> And my name is Ligon Duncan. >> And my name is Ligon Duncan. >> And today we're going to be thinking >> And today we're going to be thinking >> And today we're going to be thinking about the underrated value of about the underrated value of about the underrated value of >> confessions. >> confessions. >> confessions. >> Don't fall asleep, church documents. >> Don't fall asleep, church documents. >> Don't fall asleep, church documents. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Confessions of faith. >> Confessions of faith. >> Confessions of faith. >> Church covenants. >> Church covenants. >> Church covenants. >> Don't turn this off. >> Don't turn this off. >> Don't turn this off. Notice the word underrated, Notice the word underrated, Notice the word underrated, underutilized. We we honestly hope that underutilized. We we honestly hope that underutilized. We we honestly hope that the next several minutes of the next several minutes of the next several minutes of conversation, pastor, will help you conversation, pastor, will help you conversation, pastor, will help you perhaps re-envision the role that perhaps re-envision the role that perhaps re-envision the role that confessions of faith and other documents confessions of faith and other documents confessions of faith and other documents can play in the life of your church, not can play in the life of your church, not can play in the life of your church, not only for building up the saints but for only for building up the saints but for only for building up the saints but for promoting church unity. promoting church unity. promoting church unity. Um so, let's just start broad level, Um so, let's just start broad level, Um so, let's just start broad level, Ligon, by talking about what is the Ligon, by talking about what is the Ligon, by talking about what is the historic function of confessions of historic function of confessions of historic function of confessions of faith in the context of a local church faith in the context of a local church faith in the context of a local church and how have you seen them be beneficial and how have you seen them be beneficial and how have you seen them be beneficial in your own ministry? in your own ministry? in your own ministry? >> Well, con- confessions of faith uh >> Well, con- confessions of faith uh >> Well, con- confessions of faith uh especially began to be written in the especially began to be written in the especially began to be written in the 16th century during the time of the 16th century during the time of the 16th century during the time of the Reformation to express not only what Reformation to express not only what Reformation to express not only what local churches but groups of Christians local churches but groups of Christians local churches but groups of Christians with the same theological affinity with the same theological affinity with the same theological affinity confessed to believe what the Bible confessed to believe what the Bible confessed to believe what the Bible taught. There were there were already taught. There were there were already taught. There were there were already differences in how to understand the differences in how to understand the differences in how to understand the Bible between different groups, Bible between different groups, Bible between different groups, Lutherans and Calvinists and others in Lutherans and Calvinists and others in Lutherans and Calvinists and others in the 16th century Reformation, and they the 16th century Reformation, and they the 16th century Reformation, and they as a way of expressing liberty of as a way of expressing liberty of as a way of expressing liberty of conscience started writing down their conscience started writing down their conscience started writing down their understanding of what the Bible taught

understanding of what the Bible taught understanding of what the Bible taught as as a public profession to the world, as as a public profession to the world, as as a public profession to the world, "Hey, we believe these things." Uh and "Hey, we believe these things." Uh and "Hey, we believe these things." Uh and as a tool for unity within those various as a tool for unity within those various as a tool for unity within those various fellowships of churches. And so fellowships of churches. And so fellowships of churches. And so by the time you get to the 17th century by the time you get to the 17th century by the time you get to the 17th century the um the um the um the the the way that confessions of the the the way that confessions of the the the way that confessions of faith are functioning faith are functioning faith are functioning is to is to show not every Christian who is to is to show not every Christian who is to is to show not every Christian who believes the main things that are a part believes the main things that are a part believes the main things that are a part of the Christian affirmation of the of the Christian affirmation of the of the Christian affirmation of the Christian faith agrees on every Christian faith agrees on every Christian faith agrees on every doctrinal issue. doctrinal issue. doctrinal issue. And as as a way of trying to find room And as as a way of trying to find room And as as a way of trying to find room for freedom of conscience for freedom of conscience for freedom of conscience under the under the umbrella of a under the under the umbrella of a under the under the umbrella of a Protestant profession of Christianity, Protestant profession of Christianity, Protestant profession of Christianity, different groups wrote confessions of different groups wrote confessions of different groups wrote confessions of faith. So, in in England in the 1640s in faith. So, in in England in the 1640s in faith. So, in in England in the 1640s in the wake of the the wake of the the wake of the English Civil War, uh the Parliament English Civil War, uh the Parliament English Civil War, uh the Parliament actually called for a group of actually called for a group of actually called for a group of theologians, uh the members of theologians, uh the members of theologians, uh the members of Parliament were to nominate one or two Parliament were to nominate one or two Parliament were to nominate one or two pastors from every pastors from every pastors from every uh one of their uh one of their uh one of their constituencies constituencies constituencies uh in England and in Wales and in, um, uh in England and in Wales and in, um, uh in England and in Wales and in, um, Ireland to come to Westminster and Ireland to come to Westminster and Ireland to come to Westminster and create a document that would reform the create a document that would reform the create a document that would reform the teaching of the Church of England.

teaching of the Church of England. teaching of the Church of England. Almost everybody Almost everybody Almost everybody wanted the Church of England to be more wanted the Church of England to be more wanted the Church of England to be more reformed. They they thought it wasn't it reformed. They they thought it wasn't it reformed. They they thought it wasn't it it was it was too squishy on some issues it was it was too squishy on some issues it was it was too squishy on some issues and it needed to be more like the and it needed to be more like the and it needed to be more like the reformed churches on the continent. And reformed churches on the continent. And reformed churches on the continent. And after they started the work, they after they started the work, they after they started the work, they realized, you know, there's a shot at us realized, you know, there's a shot at us realized, you know, there's a shot at us having a pan-Protestant having a pan-Protestant having a pan-Protestant sort of confession of faith for all the sort of confession of faith for all the sort of confession of faith for all the Protestants in the British Isles. And so Protestants in the British Isles. And so Protestants in the British Isles. And so they write the Westminster Confession of they write the Westminster Confession of they write the Westminster Confession of Faith. Well, by that time you already Faith. Well, by that time you already Faith. Well, by that time you already have a Baptist movement in Britain, you have a Baptist movement in Britain, you have a Baptist movement in Britain, you have people that are convinced of have people that are convinced of have people that are convinced of congregational government in Britain, congregational government in Britain, congregational government in Britain, you have people that believe in you have people that believe in you have people that believe in Erastianism where the government is over Erastianism where the government is over Erastianism where the government is over the church. You've got all sorts of the church. You've got all sorts of the church. You've got all sorts of belief Well, belief Well, belief Well, they produce confessions of faith as they produce confessions of faith as they produce confessions of faith as well. And, uh, it serves to articulate well. And, uh, it serves to articulate well. And, uh, it serves to articulate their convictions about the Bible's their convictions about the Bible's their convictions about the Bible's teaching in particular areas. So the the teaching in particular areas. So the the teaching in particular areas. So the the Baptists have a confession of faith that Baptists have a confession of faith that Baptists have a confession of faith that they write in London in the 1640s and they write in London in the 1640s and they write in London in the 1640s and then they write another one in the 1680s then they write another one in the 1680s then they write another one in the 1680s and then they use the same one in and then they use the same one in and then they use the same one in Philadelphia in the 1740s when they get Philadelphia in the 1740s when they get Philadelphia in the 1740s when they get to the United States. And so those to the United States. And so those to the United States. And so those confessions of faith, I love reading confessions of faith, I love reading confessions of faith, I love reading statements of faith.

statements of faith. statements of faith. Uh, and there's a there's a great Uh, and there's a there's a great Uh, and there's a there's a great collection that Jim Dennison did of collection that Jim Dennison did of collection that Jim Dennison did of Protestant Confessions of Faith from the Protestant Confessions of Faith from the Protestant Confessions of Faith from the 16th to the 18th centuries. It's a 16th to the 18th centuries. It's a 16th to the 18th centuries. It's a four-volume set that you can get from four-volume set that you can get from four-volume set that you can get from Refor- I think it's a four-volume It's Refor- I think it's a four-volume It's Refor- I think it's a four-volume It's either a three or four-volume set that either a three or four-volume set that either a three or four-volume set that you can get from Reformation Heritage you can get from Reformation Heritage you can get from Reformation Heritage Books and I just find it fascinating to Books and I just find it fascinating to Books and I just find it fascinating to read those statements of faith. They're read those statements of faith. They're read those statements of faith. They're they're really edifying to read even they're really edifying to read even they're really edifying to read even when you differ with things when you differ with things when you differ with things the way they put things. They I find the way they put things. They I find the way they put things. They I find them incredibly them incredibly them incredibly edifying to read. That's really helpful. edifying to read. That's really helpful. edifying to read. That's really helpful. So, what is the role of the Westminster So, what is the role of the Westminster So, what is the role of the Westminster Confession in PCA churches today? Confession in PCA churches today? Confession in PCA churches today? >> In in the the role of the confession in >> In in the the role of the confession in >> In in the the role of the confession in PCA churches is much more like it would PCA churches is much more like it would PCA churches is much more like it would have been historically in the Scottish have been historically in the Scottish have been historically in the Scottish churches, the Irish churches, and in churches, the Irish churches, and in churches, the Irish churches, and in early American Presbyterianism. In the early American Presbyterianism. In the early American Presbyterianism. In the 20th century, Presbyterian churches 20th century, Presbyterian churches 20th century, Presbyterian churches drifted theologically from the from the drifted theologically from the from the drifted theologically from the from the Westminster Confession, and so um the Westminster Confession, and so um the Westminster Confession, and so um the adherence to the confession in say the adherence to the confession in say the adherence to the confession in say the from 1900 to 1975 from 1900 to 1975 from 1900 to 1975 was at a low ebb in American was at a low ebb in American was at a low ebb in American Presbyterianism, and Bible-believing Presbyterianism, and Bible-believing Presbyterianism, and Bible-believing Presbyterians Presbyterians Presbyterians >> Basically until the the creation of the >> Basically until the the creation of the >> Basically until the the creation of the PCA.

PCA. PCA. >> Yeah, in 1973, right? >> Yeah, in 1973, right? >> Yeah, in 1973, right? >> of other very, you know, the ARPs, the >> of other very, you know, the ARPs, the >> of other very, you know, the ARPs, the OPCs, there's some other smaller OPCs, there's some other smaller OPCs, there's some other smaller Presbyterian denominations that have a Presbyterian denominations that have a Presbyterian denominations that have a high view of scripture, and they they high view of scripture, and they they high view of scripture, and they they want to affirm the teaching of the want to affirm the teaching of the want to affirm the teaching of the confessions on God, on salvation, on confessions on God, on salvation, on confessions on God, on salvation, on Christ, on those central things again. Christ, on those central things again. Christ, on those central things again. And so, there's a renewal of interest in And so, there's a renewal of interest in And so, there's a renewal of interest in the confession. So, the way it works in the confession. So, the way it works in the confession. So, the way it works in the PCA is the PCA is the PCA is only ministers and elders and deacons only ministers and elders and deacons only ministers and elders and deacons subscribe to the confession. subscribe to the confession. subscribe to the confession. And congregation members are not And congregation members are not And congregation members are not required to subscribe to the confession required to subscribe to the confession required to subscribe to the confession heartily. heartily. heartily. That is to protect freedom of conscience That is to protect freedom of conscience That is to protect freedom of conscience amongst congregation members. amongst congregation members. amongst congregation members. Congregation members only have to answer Congregation members only have to answer Congregation members only have to answer the five questions of membership, but the five questions of membership, but the five questions of membership, but officers have to say, "Yep, this is what officers have to say, "Yep, this is what officers have to say, "Yep, this is what we believe. This is what we're going to we believe. This is what we're going to we believe. This is what we're going to teach in the church. This is This is teach in the church. This is This is teach in the church. This is This is going to be the position from which going to be the position from which going to be the position from which >> Can officers take exception to anything? >> Can officers take exception to anything? >> Can officers take exception to anything? >> Officers can take exception. Uh how >> Officers can take exception. Uh how >> Officers can take exception. Uh how those exceptions are handled depend on those exceptions are handled depend on those exceptions are handled depend on what the exceptions are. Some Some what the exceptions are. Some Some what the exceptions are. Some Some exceptions are relatively minor.

exceptions are relatively minor. exceptions are relatively minor. Um and then some exceptions can be Um and then some exceptions can be Um and then some exceptions can be pretty significant and so they're pretty significant and so they're pretty significant and so they're handled in different ways. But yes, handled in different ways. But yes, handled in different ways. But yes, officers are able to take exception to officers are able to take exception to officers are able to take exception to the confession. We make it clear that the confession. We make it clear that the confession. We make it clear that the confession is the subordinate the confession is the subordinate the confession is the subordinate standard standard standard uh under scripture. And so obviously the uh under scripture. And so obviously the uh under scripture. And so obviously the the scripture can cross-examine the the scripture can cross-examine the the scripture can cross-examine the confession. But the individual teaching confession. But the individual teaching confession. But the individual teaching of a person can't trump the church's of a person can't trump the church's of a person can't trump the church's public profession. Like if you had an public profession. Like if you had an public profession. Like if you had an individual said well well, I individual said well well, I individual said well well, I I don't agree with what the confession I don't agree with what the confession I don't agree with what the confession says about the doctrine of the Trinity. says about the doctrine of the Trinity. says about the doctrine of the Trinity. That's a very significant thing. That That's a very significant thing. That That's a very significant thing. That individual can say, "Well, I'm going to individual can say, "Well, I'm going to individual can say, "Well, I'm going to follow the Bible. You all are following follow the Bible. You all are following follow the Bible. You all are following the confession." No, they're they're the confession." No, they're they're the confession." No, they're they're We're going to say, "No, the reason we We're going to say, "No, the reason we We're going to say, "No, the reason we adhere to the confession is because adhere to the confession is because adhere to the confession is because we're following the Bible. It's not you we're following the Bible. It's not you we're following the Bible. It's not you and your Bible versus us and our and your Bible versus us and our and your Bible versus us and our confession. It's the majority of the confession. It's the majority of the confession. It's the majority of the church says, "We believe the Bible says church says, "We believe the Bible says church says, "We believe the Bible says this and you deny the doctrine of the this and you deny the doctrine of the this and you deny the doctrine of the Trinity." So, you can have serious Trinity." So, you can have serious Trinity." So, you can have serious exceptions and then you can have things exceptions and then you can have things exceptions and then you can have things that are of lesser importance.

that are of lesser importance. that are of lesser importance. >> Yeah, in our church or Baptist church, >> Yeah, in our church or Baptist church, >> Yeah, in our church or Baptist church, we have a statement of faith which is we have a statement of faith which is we have a statement of faith which is largely adapted from the New Hampshire largely adapted from the New Hampshire largely adapted from the New Hampshire Confession which is a historic broadly Confession which is a historic broadly Confession which is a historic broadly reformed though not as strictly reformed though not as strictly reformed though not as strictly Calvinistic as the 1689 broadly reformed Calvinistic as the 1689 broadly reformed Calvinistic as the 1689 broadly reformed confession of faith that was drafted in confession of faith that was drafted in confession of faith that was drafted in 1833, revised in 1853, and then of 1833, revised in 1853, and then of 1833, revised in 1853, and then of course our statement of faith has some course our statement of faith has some course our statement of faith has some updated language around marriage, updated language around marriage, updated language around marriage, gender, sexuality, things along gender, sexuality, things along gender, sexuality, things along things along those lines. things along those lines. things along those lines. >> Is that something that is utilized in >> Is that something that is utilized in >> Is that something that is utilized in other congregations than your own, Matt? other congregations than your own, Matt? other congregations than your own, Matt? Is that something that circulates around Is that something that circulates around Is that something that circulates around in in in >> It is informally. So, if you compared >> It is informally. So, if you compared >> It is informally. So, if you compared our statement of faith to that of a few our statement of faith to that of a few our statement of faith to that of a few dozen other Baptist churches, you would dozen other Baptist churches, you would dozen other Baptist churches, you would notice I would say a family resemblance. notice I would say a family resemblance. notice I would say a family resemblance. In in terms of what's going on. But of In in terms of what's going on. But of In in terms of what's going on. But of course, we're not trying to reinvent the course, we're not trying to reinvent the course, we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. Again, it's largely adapted from wheel. Again, it's largely adapted from wheel. Again, it's largely adapted from the New Hampshire Confession the New Hampshire Confession the New Hampshire Confession while addressing some of these more while addressing some of these more while addressing some of these more contested, cutting-edge cultural issues. contested, cutting-edge cultural issues. contested, cutting-edge cultural issues. And then we also have a church covenant.

And then we also have a church covenant. And then we also have a church covenant. So, if the statement of faith is what we So, if the statement of faith is what we So, if the statement of faith is what we believe, the church covenant is how we believe, the church covenant is how we believe, the church covenant is how we intend to live together. So, beliefs and intend to live together. So, beliefs and intend to live together. So, beliefs and promises. promises. promises. >> love your church covenants. That's one >> love your church covenants. That's one >> love your church covenants. That's one of the things that I sort of jealously of the things that I sort of jealously of the things that I sort of jealously look across the fence at and look across the fence at and look across the fence at and there's just some beautiful biblical there's just some beautiful biblical there's just some beautiful biblical language in those church covenants about language in those church covenants about language in those church covenants about how to You might share a little bit how to You might share a little bit how to You might share a little bit about that, in fact. about that, in fact. about that, in fact. >> Well, yeah, folks can look it up on our >> Well, yeah, folks can look it up on our >> Well, yeah, folks can look it up on our website, rivercityrichmond.org, under website, rivercityrichmond.org, under website, rivercityrichmond.org, under beliefs. You can click on church beliefs. You can click on church beliefs. You can click on church covenant and you can see it's a set of covenant and you can see it's a set of covenant and you can see it's a set of about 13 promises that a member is about 13 promises that a member is about 13 promises that a member is making to the church and the church is making to the church and the church is making to the church and the church is making to the member. And it's it's making to the member. And it's it's making to the member. And it's it's something that we often something that we often something that we often recite. So, every time we take the recite. So, every time we take the recite. So, every time we take the Lord's Supper, members of the church Lord's Supper, members of the church Lord's Supper, members of the church recite the promises in the church recite the promises in the church recite the promises in the church covenant cuz it's like a covenant covenant cuz it's like a covenant covenant cuz it's like a covenant renewal ceremony. We do it at the renewal ceremony. We do it at the renewal ceremony. We do it at the beginning of members meetings. And I beginning of members meetings. And I beginning of members meetings. And I often often often reference promises in our church reference promises in our church reference promises in our church covenant in my preaching and covenant in my preaching and covenant in my preaching and application. Um application. Um application. Um but even in the five questions of but even in the five questions of but even in the five questions of membership in the PCA, there membership in the PCA, there membership in the PCA, there there are some vow-like things. And there are some vow-like things. And there are some vow-like things. And before you before you talk about that, before you before you talk about that, before you before you talk about that, our modern culture emphasizes being able our modern culture emphasizes being able our modern culture emphasizes being able to belong without any kind of binding to belong without any kind of binding to belong without any kind of binding promise. I mean, membership is often promise. I mean, membership is often promise. I mean, membership is often framed as access, not obligation. So, framed as access, not obligation. So, framed as access, not obligation. So, some people might be listening to this some people might be listening to this some people might be listening to this and certainly might have people in their and certainly might have people in their and certainly might have people in their churches who think, "Well, what the churches who think, "Well, what the churches who think, "Well, what the heck? Why are you talking about vows and

heck? Why are you talking about vows and heck? Why are you talking about vows and promises and standards and borders when promises and standards and borders when promises and standards and borders when we're talking about God's family?" So, we're talking about God's family?" So, we're talking about God's family?" So, so how would you make the case for this so how would you make the case for this so how would you make the case for this kind of thing in defining the family of kind of thing in defining the family of kind of thing in defining the family of God? God? God? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, let me say that this doesn't just start let me say that this doesn't just start let me say that this doesn't just start with with Baptist. This is something with with Baptist. This is something with with Baptist. This is something interesting in the Methodist tradition. interesting in the Methodist tradition. interesting in the Methodist tradition. I didn't know this until a couple of I didn't know this until a couple of I didn't know this until a couple of years ago. Um Sinclair Ferguson years ago. Um Sinclair Ferguson years ago. Um Sinclair Ferguson um when he was a student in Aberdeen um when he was a student in Aberdeen um when he was a student in Aberdeen would often go preach at all would often go preach at all would often go preach at all >> a circuit riding Methodist in your >> a circuit riding Methodist in your >> a circuit riding Methodist in your family, too. family, too. family, too. >> I'm named after a circuit riding >> I'm named after a circuit riding >> I'm named after a circuit riding Methodist. Methodist. Methodist. >> Okay, that's what it is. Jennings Ligon >> Okay, that's what it is. Jennings Ligon >> Okay, that's what it is. Jennings Ligon was his name and was his name and was his name and >> and was a circuit rider in South >> and was a circuit rider in South >> and was a circuit rider in South Carolina in the 19th century. Uh and my Carolina in the 19th century. Uh and my Carolina in the 19th century. Uh and my and and on my wife's side of the family, and and on my wife's side of the family, and and on my wife's side of the family, there there Methodist circuit riders as there there Methodist circuit riders as there there Methodist circuit riders as well. But Sinclair, when he was a well. But Sinclair, when he was a well. But Sinclair, when he was a student, the though he was Church of student, the though he was Church of student, the though he was Church of Scotland, he was Presbyterian, would Scotland, he was Presbyterian, would Scotland, he was Presbyterian, would often be asked to preach at this little often be asked to preach at this little often be asked to preach at this little Methodist church. Methodist church. Methodist church. And he was there one Sunday on the first And he was there one Sunday on the first And he was there one Sunday on the first Sunday of the year Sunday of the year Sunday of the year and they recited a church covenant. Now, and they recited a church covenant. Now, and they recited a church covenant. Now, it's not as long as as your church it's not as long as as your church it's not as long as as your church covenant, but I I did some research on covenant, but I I did some research on covenant, but I I did some research on it. It actually goes back to John it. It actually goes back to John it. It actually goes back to John Wesley.

Wesley. Wesley. And and Wesley was copying it from a And and Wesley was copying it from a And and Wesley was copying it from a Puritan named Richard Alleine. And so Puritan named Richard Alleine. And so Puritan named Richard Alleine. And so the congregation would say this to one the congregation would say this to one the congregation would say this to one another every first Lord's Day of every another every first Lord's Day of every another every first Lord's Day of every new year. I am no longer new year. I am no longer new year. I am no longer >> just read about this. Sinclair talks >> just read about this. Sinclair talks >> just read about this. Sinclair talks about it in his unseen things. Yeah. about it in his unseen things. Yeah. about it in his unseen things. Yeah. >> I am no longer my own, but thine, which >> I am no longer my own, but thine, which >> I am no longer my own, but thine, which sounds very Calvin, you know, we are not sounds very Calvin, you know, we are not sounds very Calvin, you know, we are not our own, but we belong to God. I'm I am our own, but we belong to God. I'm I am our own, but we belong to God. I'm I am no longer my own, but thine, God's. no longer my own, but thine, God's. no longer my own, but thine, God's. Put me to what thou wilt. Put me to what thou wilt. Put me to what thou wilt. Rank me with whom thou wilt. Rank me with whom thou wilt. Rank me with whom thou wilt. Put me to doing. Put me to doing. Put me to doing. Put me to suffering. Put me to suffering. Put me to suffering. Let me be employed by thee Let me be employed by thee Let me be employed by thee or laid aside for thee. Exalted for thee or laid aside for thee. Exalted for thee or laid aside for thee. Exalted for thee or brought low for thee. Let me be full. or brought low for thee. Let me be full. or brought low for thee. Let me be full. Let me be empty. Let me have all things. Let me be empty. Let me have all things. Let me be empty. Let me have all things. Let me have nothing. I freely and Let me have nothing. I freely and Let me have nothing. I freely and heartily yield all things to thy heartily yield all things to thy heartily yield all things to thy pleasure and disposal. And now, oh pleasure and disposal. And now, oh pleasure and disposal. And now, oh glorious and blessed God, Father, Son, glorious and blessed God, Father, Son, glorious and blessed God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, thou art mine and I am and Holy Spirit, thou art mine and I am and Holy Spirit, thou art mine and I am thine. So be it. And the covenant which thine. So be it. And the covenant which thine. So be it. And the covenant which I have made on earth, let it be ratified I have made on earth, let it be ratified I have made on earth, let it be ratified in heaven. Amen. That's a That's a in heaven. Amen. That's a That's a in heaven. Amen. That's a That's a That's a sobering and significant way to That's a sobering and significant way to That's a sobering and significant way to start the year. You know, I had no idea start the year. You know, I had no idea start the year. You know, I had no idea that there was a covenanting tradition that there was a covenanting tradition that there was a covenanting tradition amongst the Methodists. So, Baptists amongst the Methodists. So, Baptists amongst the Methodists. So, Baptists aren't the only ones that have done aren't the only ones that have done aren't the only ones that have done this. Why Why would this be a legitimate

this. Why Why would this be a legitimate this. Why Why would this be a legitimate thing thing thing to do? Because to do? Because to do? Because we are members of one body. we are members of one body. we are members of one body. And what one part of the body does And what one part of the body does And what one part of the body does impacts every other part of the body. impacts every other part of the body. impacts every other part of the body. That's Paul in Ephesians 2, that's Jesus That's Paul in Ephesians 2, that's Jesus That's Paul in Ephesians 2, that's Jesus in John 15, that's it We can go down in John 15, that's it We can go down in John 15, that's it We can go down passage after passage in the New passage after passage in the New passage after passage in the New Testament that emphasizes we're part of Testament that emphasizes we're part of Testament that emphasizes we're part of a household, we're part of a family, a household, we're part of a family, a household, we're part of a family, we're part of a body. And I I love the we're part of a body. And I I love the we're part of a body. And I I love the sense of mutual service and concern that sense of mutual service and concern that sense of mutual service and concern that are conveyed in beautiful biblical are conveyed in beautiful biblical are conveyed in beautiful biblical Baptist church covenants. It's just Baptist church covenants. It's just Baptist church covenants. It's just glorious. You've read yours to me before glorious. You've read yours to me before glorious. You've read yours to me before and I just thought that is so good. It and I just thought that is so good. It and I just thought that is so good. It makes you think about what your makes you think about what your makes you think about what your obligations are to your brothers and obligations are to your brothers and obligations are to your brothers and sisters in Christ. We're not just sisters in Christ. We're not just sisters in Christ. We're not just acquaintances. acquaintances. acquaintances. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> We're family and we're part of the same >> We're family and we're part of the same >> We're family and we're part of the same body and that means we owe one another body and that means we owe one another body and that means we owe one another certain things. And so, I think it's a certain things. And so, I think it's a certain things. And so, I think it's a beautiful It shows how believing and beautiful It shows how believing and beautiful It shows how believing and belonging go together. Those things go belonging go together. Those things go belonging go together. Those things go together and you really can't together and you really can't together and you really can't do either of them without the other. You do either of them without the other. You do either of them without the other. You need to do both of them together. So, I need to do both of them together. So, I need to do both of them together. So, I I love that tradition. I've You know, I love that tradition. I've You know, I love that tradition. I've You know, I've read of course CHBC's, I've seen I've read of course CHBC's, I've seen I've read of course CHBC's, I've seen I've seen other Baptist church I've seen other Baptist church I've seen other Baptist church covenants. I love reading those covenants. I love reading those covenants. I love reading those documents.

documents. documents. >> Mhm. Yeah, and all that's the case >> Mhm. Yeah, and all that's the case >> Mhm. Yeah, and all that's the case because the New Testament assumes a because the New Testament assumes a because the New Testament assumes a covenant people, not just free-floating covenant people, not just free-floating covenant people, not just free-floating Christians. So, if your idea of being a Christians. So, if your idea of being a Christians. So, if your idea of being a Christian is being a spiritual free Christian is being a spiritual free Christian is being a spiritual free agent, if if that's what the people in agent, if if that's what the people in agent, if if that's what the people in your church assume, then yeah, this your church assume, then yeah, this your church assume, then yeah, this conversation is going to sound exclusive conversation is going to sound exclusive conversation is going to sound exclusive and intimidating and kind of and intimidating and kind of and intimidating and kind of curmudgeonly. curmudgeonly. curmudgeonly. But to the degree you have an But to the degree you have an But to the degree you have an understanding of being a Christian as understanding of being a Christian as understanding of being a Christian as one body, many members, where we are one body, many members, where we are one body, many members, where we are taking responsibility for one another. taking responsibility for one another. taking responsibility for one another. We're helping each other toward heaven. We're helping each other toward heaven. We're helping each other toward heaven. Uh the kind of pack life aspect of Uh the kind of pack life aspect of Uh the kind of pack life aspect of Christianity, then you're going to be Christianity, then you're going to be Christianity, then you're going to be grateful for the borders and the grateful for the borders and the grateful for the borders and the boundaries that a confession provides. The pastor who goes deeper in theology The pastor who goes deeper in theology doesn't just become a better thinker. He doesn't just become a better thinker. He doesn't just become a better thinker. He becomes a better shepherd. Southern becomes a better shepherd. Southern becomes a better shepherd. Southern Seminary's PhD programs are forming Seminary's PhD programs are forming Seminary's PhD programs are forming pastor-theologians. pastor-theologians. pastor-theologians. Men who have wrestled seriously with the Men who have wrestled seriously with the Men who have wrestled seriously with the great tradition of Christian thought and great tradition of Christian thought and great tradition of Christian thought and who bring that depth back to the people who bring that depth back to the people who bring that depth back to the people they love and lead. What you gain in they love and lead. What you gain in they love and lead. What you gain in your study, your congregation receives.

your study, your congregation receives. your study, your congregation receives. And Southern Seminary's faculty are here And Southern Seminary's faculty are here And Southern Seminary's faculty are here to support you in your work to to support you in your work to to support you in your work to strengthen the church. strengthen the church. strengthen the church. Southern's PhD program is built to fit Southern's PhD program is built to fit Southern's PhD program is built to fit alongside your ministry, offering alongside your ministry, offering alongside your ministry, offering flexible formats from fully online to flexible formats from fully online to flexible formats from fully online to modular to in-person, so you can pursue modular to in-person, so you can pursue modular to in-person, so you can pursue the kind of rigorous theological the kind of rigorous theological the kind of rigorous theological training that will change how you pastor training that will change how you pastor training that will change how you pastor without stepping away from your church. without stepping away from your church. without stepping away from your church. If you're ready to go deeper, Southern If you're ready to go deeper, Southern If you're ready to go deeper, Southern Seminary's PhD program is where that Seminary's PhD program is where that Seminary's PhD program is where that begins. Visit sbts.edu/phd So, in your own journey in growing So, in your own journey in growing doctrinally over the years, how have you doctrinally over the years, how have you doctrinally over the years, how have you seen and grown in your understanding and seen and grown in your understanding and seen and grown in your understanding and appreciation of the value of appreciation of the value of appreciation of the value of confessions? confessions? confessions? >> Well, in a bunch of different ways. >> Well, in a bunch of different ways. >> Well, in a bunch of different ways. Here's one that comes to mind. Again, Here's one that comes to mind. Again, Here's one that comes to mind. Again, your generation, Matt, has seen a your generation, Matt, has seen a your generation, Matt, has seen a beautiful recovery of classic Christian beautiful recovery of classic Christian beautiful recovery of classic Christian and Protestant affirmations about the and Protestant affirmations about the and Protestant affirmations about the doctrine of God, the doctrine of the doctrine of God, the doctrine of the doctrine of God, the doctrine of the Trinity, and the doctrine of Christ. And Trinity, and the doctrine of Christ. And Trinity, and the doctrine of Christ. And I would have resonated with that as a I would have resonated with that as a I would have resonated with that as a seminary student, but that was not what seminary student, but that was not what seminary student, but that was not what was happening in the 1980s. In fact, two was happening in the 1980s. In fact, two was happening in the 1980s. In fact, two of my favorite professors from whom I of my favorite professors from whom I of my favorite professors from whom I learned an enormous amount and who will learned an enormous amount and who will learned an enormous amount and who will are, you know, both in glory with Jesus are, you know, both in glory with Jesus are, you know, both in glory with Jesus right now right now right now articulated some really idiosyncratic articulated some really idiosyncratic articulated some really idiosyncratic stuff on the doctrine of the Trinity and

stuff on the doctrine of the Trinity and stuff on the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of Christ. the doctrine of Christ. the doctrine of Christ. And the only thing that protected me And the only thing that protected me And the only thing that protected me from kind of going with them in that from kind of going with them in that from kind of going with them in that quirky direction because I respected quirky direction because I respected quirky direction because I respected their views in every area that they their views in every area that they their views in every area that they talked about. They were so talked about. They were so talked about. They were so knowledgeable. They were so godly and knowledgeable. They were so godly and knowledgeable. They were so godly and and and spiritual and convectional. The and and spiritual and convectional. The and and spiritual and convectional. The only thing that protected me from kind only thing that protected me from kind only thing that protected me from kind of following them in their quirkiness in of following them in their quirkiness in of following them in their quirkiness in those areas was the confession of faith. those areas was the confession of faith. those areas was the confession of faith. And I just thought, I don't know enough And I just thought, I don't know enough And I just thought, I don't know enough yet yet yet to differ from the confession of faith to differ from the confession of faith to differ from the confession of faith on that. I think I'm just going to stick on that. I think I'm just going to stick on that. I think I'm just going to stick with the confession of faith until I can with the confession of faith until I can with the confession of faith until I can figure it out. And now, you know, we've figure it out. And now, you know, we've figure it out. And now, you know, we've had this explosion of wonderful young had this explosion of wonderful young had this explosion of wonderful young scholars that are working in precisely scholars that are working in precisely scholars that are working in precisely those areas. So, whether it's James those areas. So, whether it's James those areas. So, whether it's James Dolezal or Bobby Jameson or Scott Swain, Dolezal or Bobby Jameson or Scott Swain, Dolezal or Bobby Jameson or Scott Swain, we can go down a long list of guys, we can go down a long list of guys, we can go down a long list of guys, Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, and Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, and Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, and others who've worked hard in the area of others who've worked hard in the area of others who've worked hard in the area of the doctrine of the Trinity, the the doctrine of the Trinity, the the doctrine of the Trinity, the doctrine of the the person of Christ, doctrine of the the person of Christ, doctrine of the the person of Christ, who have corrected some of the quirks who have corrected some of the quirks who have corrected some of the quirks that my wonderful beloved professors that my wonderful beloved professors that my wonderful beloved professors had. And what I've realized is, wow, the had. And what I've realized is, wow, the had. And what I've realized is, wow, the confessions got this exactly right. You confessions got this exactly right. You confessions got this exactly right. You pick up your Baptist confession 1689, pick up your Baptist confession 1689, pick up your Baptist confession 1689, it's going to have this right. You pick it's going to have this right. You pick it's going to have this right. You pick up your Westminster Confession, it's up your Westminster Confession, it's up your Westminster Confession, it's going to have it right. You pick up the going to have it right. You pick up the going to have it right. You pick up the Savoy Declaration of the Savoy Declaration of the Savoy Declaration of the Congregationalists, it's going to have Congregationalists, it's going to have Congregationalists, it's going to have this right. You pick up the Anglican this right. You pick up the Anglican this right. You pick up the Anglican Articles, the Irish Articles, it's going Articles, the Irish Articles, it's going Articles, the Irish Articles, it's going to have this right. So, our forebears to have this right. So, our forebears to have this right. So, our forebears >> Not to mention Nicene Creed, Apostles'

>> Not to mention Nicene Creed, Apostles' >> Not to mention Nicene Creed, Apostles' >> Correct. Correct. Yeah, exactly. Going >> Correct. Correct. Yeah, exactly. Going >> Correct. Correct. Yeah, exactly. Going all the way back to early Christianity. all the way back to early Christianity. all the way back to early Christianity. >> are not straightjackets. >> are not straightjackets. >> are not straightjackets. >> They're rumble strips. >> They're rumble strips. >> They're rumble strips. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> To keep you from swerving off. >> To keep you from swerving off. >> To keep you from swerving off. >> keep they keep you in the in the in the >> keep they keep you in the in the in the >> keep they keep you in the in the in the right lane and I that was I've just I've right lane and I that was I've just I've right lane and I that was I've just I've gone back with an appreciation for the gone back with an appreciation for the gone back with an appreciation for the young scholars that are teaching me so young scholars that are teaching me so young scholars that are teaching me so much and realizing, "Wow, the the much and realizing, "Wow, the the much and realizing, "Wow, the the confession really protected me when I confession really protected me when I confession really protected me when I didn't know enough to make a judgment on didn't know enough to make a judgment on didn't know enough to make a judgment on my own." And um that's how it's supposed my own." And um that's how it's supposed my own." And um that's how it's supposed to work, right? It as you say, it's not to work, right? It as you say, it's not to work, right? It as you say, it's not a straightjacket. It's it's actually a straightjacket. It's it's actually a straightjacket. It's it's actually there to keep you in the center of the there to keep you in the center of the there to keep you in the center of the road and um not sort of swerving off to road and um not sort of swerving off to road and um not sort of swerving off to the cuz all of us go through the cuz all of us go through the cuz all of us go through times of theological fads and tendencies times of theological fads and tendencies times of theological fads and tendencies that when we look back on, we go, that when we look back on, we go, that when we look back on, we go, "That wasn't so "That wasn't so "That wasn't so helpful." And the the confessions helpful." And the the confessions helpful." And the the confessions at their best uh keep us from falling at their best uh keep us from falling at their best uh keep us from falling prey to that. So, that's that's one area prey to that. So, that's that's one area prey to that. So, that's that's one area that I've seen the Another Another area that I've seen the Another Another area that I've seen the Another Another area though, Matt, is just though, Matt, is just though, Matt, is just being able to help identify what the being able to help identify what the being able to help identify what the majors and the minors are.

majors and the minors are. majors and the minors are. You know, you can have a lot of people You know, you can have a lot of people You know, you can have a lot of people with really amped up convictions about with really amped up convictions about with really amped up convictions about what we have to preach about and what we what we have to preach about and what we what we have to preach about and what we need to address and what we need to talk need to address and what we need to talk need to address and what we need to talk about. And the confessions about. And the confessions about. And the confessions really give you an idea of, "Hey, that really give you an idea of, "Hey, that really give you an idea of, "Hey, that Here's what the historic church thinks Here's what the historic church thinks Here's what the historic church thinks we need to be amped up about." You know, we need to be amped up about." You know, we need to be amped up about." You know, we need to be amped up about God. We we need to be amped up about God. We we need to be amped up about God. We need to be amped up about the Trinity. need to be amped up about the Trinity. need to be amped up about the Trinity. We need to be amped up about Christ. We We need to be amped up about Christ. We We need to be amped up about Christ. We need to be amped up about the gospel. We need to be amped up about the gospel. We need to be amped up about the gospel. We need to be amped up about justification. need to be amped up about justification. need to be amped up about justification. You know, it it just lays out these You know, it it just lays out these You know, it it just lays out these things and it says these are really things and it says these are really things and it says these are really important things that all of us need to important things that all of us need to important things that all of us need to be talking about and that that sort of be talking about and that that sort of be talking about and that that sort of that sort of sets the urgencies of the that sort of sets the urgencies of the that sort of sets the urgencies of the moment. moment. moment. The those things may be important, but The those things may be important, but The those things may be important, but these things are important this year, these things are important this year, these things are important this year, they'll be important in 10 years, they'll be important in 10 years, they'll be important in 10 years, they'll be important in 10,000 years. they'll be important in 10,000 years. they'll be important in 10,000 years. And so we want to make sure that the And so we want to make sure that the And so we want to make sure that the diet and the emphasis of my preaching is diet and the emphasis of my preaching is diet and the emphasis of my preaching is on these lasting things that aren't just on these lasting things that aren't just on these lasting things that aren't just sort of fluctuating through the moments sort of fluctuating through the moments sort of fluctuating through the moments of our time.

of our time. of our time. >> Yeah, I they're pregnant like >> Yeah, I they're pregnant like >> Yeah, I they're pregnant like confessions of faith, statements of confessions of faith, statements of confessions of faith, statements of faith, they're pregnant with unity faith, they're pregnant with unity faith, they're pregnant with unity forging potential. forging potential. forging potential. Because like you said, they establish Because like you said, they establish Because like you said, they establish the common core, the things we've agreed the common core, the things we've agreed the common core, the things we've agreed to agree on. to agree on. to agree on. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And therefore they regulate the >> And therefore they regulate the >> And therefore they regulate the temperature of our debates. temperature of our debates. temperature of our debates. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Will our church speak in an official >> Will our church speak in an official >> Will our church speak in an official capacity to X issue? capacity to X issue? capacity to X issue? Well, if the statement of faith Well, if the statement of faith Well, if the statement of faith addresses it, we absolutely will. If the addresses it, we absolutely will. If the addresses it, we absolutely will. If the statement of faith sort of addresses it, statement of faith sort of addresses it, statement of faith sort of addresses it, we might. And if the statement of faith we might. And if the statement of faith we might. And if the statement of faith doesn't address it, we may not. Now, doesn't address it, we may not. Now, doesn't address it, we may not. Now, that's not to say that that's not to say that that's not to say that it wouldn't come out in a pastoral it wouldn't come out in a pastoral it wouldn't come out in a pastoral prayer or in sermon application, but in prayer or in sermon application, but in prayer or in sermon application, but in terms of what we're requiring agreement terms of what we're requiring agreement terms of what we're requiring agreement on in order to become a member of the on in order to become a member of the on in order to become a member of the church, church, church, we've said here are the boundaries, we've said here are the boundaries, we've said here are the boundaries, here's the borders, and there's actually here's the borders, and there's actually here's the borders, and there's actually therefore a lot of room for Christian therefore a lot of room for Christian therefore a lot of room for Christian freedom. There's a lot of room for freedom. There's a lot of room for freedom. There's a lot of room for differences even among church members differences even among church members differences even among church members over third rank doctrines and issues.

over third rank doctrines and issues. over third rank doctrines and issues. And so I found it helpful to think about And so I found it helpful to think about And so I found it helpful to think about it as those rumble strips or those it as those rumble strips or those it as those rumble strips or those guardrails because not all doctrines, guardrails because not all doctrines, guardrails because not all doctrines, when we did a whole episode on when we did a whole episode on when we did a whole episode on theological triage, but not all theological triage, but not all theological triage, but not all doctrines are created equal. And it's doctrines are created equal. And it's doctrines are created equal. And it's it's in it's helpful it's in it's helpful it's in it's helpful for for for pastoring pastoring pastoring because so many of the because so many of the because so many of the the things that have our members heated the things that have our members heated the things that have our members heated not just with the world but perhaps not just with the world but perhaps not just with the world but perhaps toward one another are not necessarily toward one another are not necessarily toward one another are not necessarily things over which church members things over which church members things over which church members have to agree. have to agree. have to agree. There's Galatians 1 and there's Romans There's Galatians 1 and there's Romans There's Galatians 1 and there's Romans 14 and there's a danger of treating 14 and there's a danger of treating 14 and there's a danger of treating Galatians 1 issues gospel issues as if Galatians 1 issues gospel issues as if Galatians 1 issues gospel issues as if they're debatable matters like they're they're debatable matters like they're they're debatable matters like they're in Romans 14 and there's a danger of in Romans 14 and there's a danger of in Romans 14 and there's a danger of treating Romans 14 issues as if they're treating Romans 14 issues as if they're treating Romans 14 issues as if they're gospel issues. And so I think it gospel issues. And so I think it gospel issues. And so I think it requires a lot of wisdom maturity requires a lot of wisdom maturity requires a lot of wisdom maturity for pastors to have that depth for pastors to have that depth for pastors to have that depth perception to see how perception to see how perception to see how >> And you were even saying we were talking >> And you were even saying we were talking >> And you were even saying we were talking before we we started the conversation um before we we started the conversation um before we we started the conversation um that what confessions decide not to that what confessions decide not to that what confessions decide not to address that's instructive too and and address that's instructive too and and address that's instructive too and and then the room that the confessions of then the room that the confessions of then the room that the confessions of faith will build in faith will build in faith will build in >> Right.

>> Right. >> Right. >> on on certain issues >> on on certain issues >> on on certain issues that's instructive and I Sinclair that's instructive and I Sinclair that's instructive and I Sinclair Ferguson in his lectures on the Ferguson in his lectures on the Ferguson in his lectures on the Westminster Confession often points out Westminster Confession often points out Westminster Confession often points out that the Confession was designed to be a that the Confession was designed to be a that the Confession was designed to be a consensus document. It wasn't it wasn't consensus document. It wasn't it wasn't consensus document. It wasn't it wasn't trying to solve every theological issue trying to solve every theological issue trying to solve every theological issue amongst reformed folks and in fact it amongst reformed folks and in fact it amongst reformed folks and in fact it deliberately built room for yeah you can deliberately built room for yeah you can deliberately built room for yeah you can hold this perspective this perspective hold this perspective this perspective hold this perspective this perspective this perspective and still be able to this perspective and still be able to this perspective and still be able to affirm the Confession and that's we were affirm the Confession and that's we were affirm the Confession and that's we were talking about the New Hampshire talking about the New Hampshire talking about the New Hampshire Confession it's a broadly reformed Confession it's a broadly reformed Confession it's a broadly reformed Confession Confession Confession you know if if you were a strong you know if if you were a strong you know if if you were a strong particular redemption guy you can sign particular redemption guy you can sign particular redemption guy you can sign the New Hampshire the New Hampshire the New Hampshire Confession but it doesn't say some of Confession but it doesn't say some of Confession but it doesn't say some of the things that you might say if you the things that you might say if you the things that you might say if you were only writing a document that was were only writing a document that was were only writing a document that was going to affirm particular redemption. going to affirm particular redemption. going to affirm particular redemption. So So So substitutionary atonement certainly you substitutionary atonement certainly you substitutionary atonement certainly you know it's very clear on that but you know it's very clear on that but you know it's very clear on that but you know, that's that's an example of know, that's that's an example of know, that's that's an example of building room building room building room and allowing some theological latitude and allowing some theological latitude and allowing some theological latitude on certain things in order to promote on certain things in order to promote on certain things in order to promote the unity of the church as well as the the unity of the church as well as the the unity of the church as well as the purity of the church. And confessions at purity of the church. And confessions at purity of the church. And confessions at their best are thinking about both ends their best are thinking about both ends their best are thinking about both ends of those things.

of those things. of those things. >> I think it's a fine balance because we >> I think it's a fine balance because we >> I think it's a fine balance because we want to have statements of faith that want to have statements of faith that want to have statements of faith that are robust enough where it's clear that are robust enough where it's clear that are robust enough where it's clear that hey, we actually stand for stuff. hey, we actually stand for stuff. hey, we actually stand for stuff. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um but we also don't want a statement of >> Um but we also don't want a statement of >> Um but we also don't want a statement of faith that's so comprehensive faith that's so comprehensive faith that's so comprehensive that we're requiring agreement on uh that we're requiring agreement on uh that we're requiring agreement on uh from from members to where from from members to where from from members to where you basically have to be a really you basically have to be a really you basically have to be a really well-taught, really well-discipled well-taught, really well-discipled well-taught, really well-discipled Christian just to join the church. Christian just to join the church. Christian just to join the church. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Um and so I think one of the most >> Um and so I think one of the most >> Um and so I think one of the most counterintuitive lessons that we would counterintuitive lessons that we would counterintuitive lessons that we would commend to pastors from all of this is commend to pastors from all of this is commend to pastors from all of this is that one way to preserve sound doctrine that one way to preserve sound doctrine that one way to preserve sound doctrine is to leave ample room for Christian is to leave ample room for Christian is to leave ample room for Christian freedom. Now, the reason that's freedom. Now, the reason that's freedom. Now, the reason that's counterintuitive is because sometimes we counterintuitive is because sometimes we counterintuitive is because sometimes we doctrine guys might think, you know, uh doctrine guys might think, you know, uh doctrine guys might think, you know, uh we need to take a stand on everything. we need to take a stand on everything. we need to take a stand on everything. But the danger But the danger But the danger in not leaving room for Christian in not leaving room for Christian in not leaving room for Christian freedom, i.e. the things as a church freedom, i.e. the things as a church freedom, i.e. the things as a church you've not agreed to agree on, the you've not agreed to agree on, the you've not agreed to agree on, the things that are not codified in in the things that are not codified in in the things that are not codified in in the statement of faith, statement of faith, statement of faith, is that you end up sticking more into is that you end up sticking more into is that you end up sticking more into the gospel than is there, demanding the gospel than is there, demanding the gospel than is there, demanding agreement on a wider a range of issues agreement on a wider a range of issues agreement on a wider a range of issues than the gospel itself requires, than the gospel itself requires, than the gospel itself requires, and therefore you run the risk of and therefore you run the risk of and therefore you run the risk of succumbing to legalism. So, it's a real succumbing to legalism. So, it's a real succumbing to legalism. So, it's a real fine fine fine uh uh uh kind of balancing act to figure that kind of balancing act to figure that kind of balancing act to figure that out. Um but we want to be clear. We're out. Um but we want to be clear. We're out. Um but we want to be clear. We're not saying, I mean, the the Bible not saying, I mean, the the Bible not saying, I mean, the the Bible commands ministers to preach the whole commands ministers to preach the whole commands ministers to preach the whole counsel of God.

counsel of God. counsel of God. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, a a pastor ought to speak a a pastor ought to speak a a pastor ought to speak biblically, courageously, prophetically biblically, courageously, prophetically biblically, courageously, prophetically about any number of issues that the text about any number of issues that the text about any number of issues that the text presents. presents. presents. But that doesn't mean that uniformity But that doesn't mean that uniformity But that doesn't mean that uniformity it must be required on every one of it must be required on every one of it must be required on every one of those issues in order to be a member of those issues in order to be a member of those issues in order to be a member of the church. I also think that it as I the church. I also think that it as I the church. I also think that it as I look back on the history of my own look back on the history of my own look back on the history of my own denomination denomination denomination that that that the the leaders of the church have been the the leaders of the church have been the the leaders of the church have been very wise to recognize when when you very wise to recognize when when you very wise to recognize when when you don't need a hammer, all you need is a don't need a hammer, all you need is a don't need a hammer, all you need is a nudge. nudge. nudge. And they would very often instead of And they would very often instead of And they would very often instead of um um um trying to add to the confession or add trying to add to the confession or add trying to add to the confession or add requirements, they would just they would requirements, they would just they would requirements, they would just they would produce a pastoral letter produce a pastoral letter produce a pastoral letter in which they gave a little nudge and in which they gave a little nudge and in which they gave a little nudge and they said, "We don't think this is the they said, "We don't think this is the they said, "We don't think this is the best way of handling things." And that best way of handling things." And that best way of handling things." And that was all that was needed to cause some was all that was needed to cause some was all that was needed to cause some sort of a goofy movement to collapse. sort of a goofy movement to collapse. sort of a goofy movement to collapse. Just a little pastoral nudge. And we can Just a little pastoral nudge. And we can Just a little pastoral nudge. And we can do that as pastors in the local church, do that as pastors in the local church, do that as pastors in the local church, too, because sometimes when you double too, because sometimes when you double too, because sometimes when you double down hard on something, you create a down hard on something, you create a down hard on something, you create a reaction.

reaction. reaction. And sometimes just a little nudge is all And sometimes just a little nudge is all And sometimes just a little nudge is all the quirky tendency needs. And um and the quirky tendency needs. And um and the quirky tendency needs. And um and you're you know, you're you're not um you're you know, you're you're not um you're you know, you're you're not um you know, trying to find one syllable in you know, trying to find one syllable in you know, trying to find one syllable in your confession that absolutely outlaws your confession that absolutely outlaws your confession that absolutely outlaws anybody ever thinking that in the corner anybody ever thinking that in the corner anybody ever thinking that in the corner of the room in their house at home of the room in their house at home of the room in their house at home alone, but you just know the better way alone, but you just know the better way alone, but you just know the better way to approach that would be this way. to approach that would be this way. to approach that would be this way. And sometimes the Lord will use that in And sometimes the Lord will use that in And sometimes the Lord will use that in remarkable ways to steer people back remarkable ways to steer people back remarkable ways to steer people back onto the to the main path. And so onto the to the main path. And so onto the to the main path. And so confessions of faith can't solve every confessions of faith can't solve every confessions of faith can't solve every problem. And that's that problem. And that's that problem. And that's that for for one thing because new things for for one thing because new things for for one thing because new things come up. You you mentioned for instance, come up. You you mentioned for instance, come up. You you mentioned for instance, you've got a a a you've got a a a you've got a a a church covenant that draws on church covenant that draws on church covenant that draws on things like the New Hampshire confession things like the New Hampshire confession things like the New Hampshire confession and the abstract of principles, but man, and the abstract of principles, but man, and the abstract of principles, but man, now we've got issues popping up on now we've got issues popping up on now we've got issues popping up on gender, marriage, and sexuality. So, gender, marriage, and sexuality. So, gender, marriage, and sexuality. So, you've got to do some crafting of you've got to do some crafting of you've got to do some crafting of language that wasn't there for you language that wasn't there for you language that wasn't there for you before because 300 years ago, if we had before because 300 years ago, if we had before because 300 years ago, if we had gone to a group of Baptists and gone to a group of Baptists and gone to a group of Baptists and Presbyterians and said, "What do you Presbyterians and said, "What do you Presbyterians and said, "What do you think about trans?" They would have think about trans?" They would have think about trans?" They would have said, "What?"

said, "What?" said, "What?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, so you have to do some work in >> You know, so you have to do some work in >> You know, so you have to do some work in the contemporary to address issues that the contemporary to address issues that the contemporary to address issues that are new. Um and so you are new. Um and so you are new. Um and so you you cannot cover every possible issue, you cannot cover every possible issue, you cannot cover every possible issue, but you've got to pick some that you but you've got to pick some that you but you've got to pick some that you have to take a stand on. And in that have to take a stand on. And in that have to take a stand on. And in that case, there's a historic connection case, there's a historic connection case, there's a historic connection there back to the doctrine of man and to there back to the doctrine of man and to there back to the doctrine of man and to the doctrine of marriage that you can the doctrine of marriage that you can the doctrine of marriage that you can draw a line from and address. draw a line from and address. draw a line from and address. >> Yeah, absolutely. And once again, we >> Yeah, absolutely. And once again, we >> Yeah, absolutely. And once again, we we've talked about what your church we've talked about what your church we've talked about what your church believes, believes, believes, uh also how a church intends to live uh also how a church intends to live uh also how a church intends to live together, the promises that we call a together, the promises that we call a together, the promises that we call a church covenant. Some of those promises church covenant. Some of those promises church covenant. Some of those promises are kind of baked into your your five are kind of baked into your your five are kind of baked into your your five questions. So, as we think of membership questions. So, as we think of membership questions. So, as we think of membership as something that involves vows, uh as something that involves vows, uh as something that involves vows, uh something that involves real something that involves real something that involves real accountability and commitment, um what accountability and commitment, um what accountability and commitment, um what does that look like in joining a does that look like in joining a does that look like in joining a Presbyterian church? Presbyterian church? Presbyterian church? >> Um and these questions have been around >> Um and these questions have been around >> Um and these questions have been around maybe for 100 years or so. Uh Matt, I've maybe for 100 years or so. Uh Matt, I've maybe for 100 years or so. Uh Matt, I've not done the thorough historical study not done the thorough historical study not done the thorough historical study of them that I want to, but certainly of them that I want to, but certainly of them that I want to, but certainly the PCA has used these from the very the PCA has used these from the very the PCA has used these from the very beginnings, and you'll find beginnings, and you'll find beginnings, and you'll find similar-sounding vows in other similar-sounding vows in other similar-sounding vows in other Bible-believing Presbyterian and Bible-believing Presbyterian and Bible-believing Presbyterian and Reformed denominations, but our five Reformed denominations, but our five Reformed denominations, but our five questions are questions are questions are um do you acknowledge yourself to be a um do you acknowledge yourself to be a um do you acknowledge yourself to be a sinner in the sight of God, justly sinner in the sight of God, justly sinner in the sight of God, justly deserving his displeasure, and without deserving his displeasure, and without deserving his displeasure, and without hope save in Jesus Christ?

hope save in Jesus Christ? hope save in Jesus Christ? So, you're acknowledging your need for So, you're acknowledging your need for So, you're acknowledging your need for Christ and your sinful estate and your Christ and your sinful estate and your Christ and your sinful estate and your deserving of judgment. The second deserving of judgment. The second deserving of judgment. The second question is, do you believe in the Lord question is, do you believe in the Lord question is, do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Savior of sinners, and do you receive Savior of sinners, and do you receive Savior of sinners, and do you receive and rest on him alone for your salvation and rest on him alone for your salvation and rest on him alone for your salvation as he is offered in the gospel? So, as he is offered in the gospel? So, as he is offered in the gospel? So, we're wanting to make sure that they we're wanting to make sure that they we're wanting to make sure that they have put their faith in Jesus Christ, have put their faith in Jesus Christ, have put their faith in Jesus Christ, that they understand who he is. He's the that they understand who he is. He's the that they understand who he is. He's the Son of God, and he's the Savior of Son of God, and he's the Savior of Son of God, and he's the Savior of sinners. He's the Lord Jesus Christ. All sinners. He's the Lord Jesus Christ. All sinners. He's the Lord Jesus Christ. All of that is full of theological of that is full of theological of that is full of theological significance. Then the third question significance. Then the third question significance. Then the third question kind of moves to sanctification, and it kind of moves to sanctification, and it kind of moves to sanctification, and it moves towards our obligation to one moves towards our obligation to one moves towards our obligation to one another in the congregation. Do you now another in the congregation. Do you now another in the congregation. Do you now resolve and promise, in humble reliance resolve and promise, in humble reliance resolve and promise, in humble reliance upon the grace of the Holy Spirit, that upon the grace of the Holy Spirit, that upon the grace of the Holy Spirit, that you will endeavor to live as becomes a you will endeavor to live as becomes a you will endeavor to live as becomes a follower of Christ? Then, follower of Christ? Then, follower of Christ? Then, uh do you do you promise to support the uh do you do you promise to support the uh do you do you promise to support the church in its worship and work to the church in its worship and work to the church in its worship and work to the best of your ability? And do you um best of your ability? And do you um best of your ability? And do you um submit yourself to the government and submit yourself to the government and submit yourself to the government and discipline of the church and promise to discipline of the church and promise to discipline of the church and promise to study its purity and peace? So, the study its purity and peace? So, the study its purity and peace? So, the latter three questions start dipping latter three questions start dipping latter three questions start dipping into the areas that your church covenant into the areas that your church covenant into the areas that your church covenant so beautifully elaborates. So, why don't so beautifully elaborates. So, why don't so beautifully elaborates. So, why don't you share your church covenant?

you share your church covenant? you share your church covenant? >> Well, yeah. I wasn't going to share it, >> Well, yeah. I wasn't going to share it, >> Well, yeah. I wasn't going to share it, but I I did I did pull it up. Uh but I I did I did pull it up. Uh but I I did I did pull it up. Uh here we go. So, yeah, this this is our here we go. So, yeah, this this is our here we go. So, yeah, this this is our members covenant. It's It's It's the the members covenant. It's It's It's the the members covenant. It's It's It's the the essentially the vows we make to one essentially the vows we make to one essentially the vows we make to one another. And again, we recite this another. And again, we recite this another. And again, we recite this often, and I I consult it and appeal to often, and I I consult it and appeal to often, and I I consult it and appeal to it often in my preaching, and I find it often in my preaching, and I find it often in my preaching, and I find that it's a great way to kind of bring that it's a great way to kind of bring that it's a great way to kind of bring us all back to that sense of corporate, us all back to that sense of corporate, us all back to that sense of corporate, not just stewardship, but ownership of not just stewardship, but ownership of not just stewardship, but ownership of one another's spiritual welfare. one another's spiritual welfare. one another's spiritual welfare. By God's grace, we have been brought to By God's grace, we have been brought to By God's grace, we have been brought to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus repent and believe in the Lord Jesus repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Having been joined to him by his Christ. Having been joined to him by his Christ. Having been joined to him by his Spirit and affirmed as Christians Spirit and affirmed as Christians Spirit and affirmed as Christians through church membership, so we now through church membership, so we now through church membership, so we now solemnly and joyfully renew our covenant solemnly and joyfully renew our covenant solemnly and joyfully renew our covenant with each other, that God enabling us. with each other, that God enabling us. with each other, that God enabling us. And then here are the promises. And then here are the promises. And then here are the promises. We will walk together in love as We will walk together in love as We will walk together in love as brothers and sisters, a family of brothers and sisters, a family of brothers and sisters, a family of sinners saved by grace. sinners saved by grace. sinners saved by grace. We will labor for the unity of the We will labor for the unity of the We will labor for the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace, bearing spirit in the bond of peace, bearing spirit in the bond of peace, bearing patiently with each other and freely patiently with each other and freely patiently with each other and freely forgiving as we have been forgiven in forgiving as we have been forgiven in forgiving as we have been forgiven in Christ.

Christ. Christ. We will pursue transparency with each We will pursue transparency with each We will pursue transparency with each other, resisting the temptation to hide other, resisting the temptation to hide other, resisting the temptation to hide our struggles and sins that we might our struggles and sins that we might our struggles and sins that we might experience the grace of God in the care experience the grace of God in the care experience the grace of God in the care of His saints. of His saints. of His saints. We will commit to the ministry of We will commit to the ministry of We will commit to the ministry of attendance, regularly gathering with the attendance, regularly gathering with the attendance, regularly gathering with the whole church for worship and fellowship whole church for worship and fellowship whole church for worship and fellowship because no one can faithfully follow because no one can faithfully follow because no one can faithfully follow Jesus alone. Jesus alone. Jesus alone. We will commit to the ministry of prayer We will commit to the ministry of prayer We will commit to the ministry of prayer and to pursue each other's good as we and to pursue each other's good as we and to pursue each other's good as we encourage frequently, admonish gently, encourage frequently, admonish gently, encourage frequently, admonish gently, and receive correction humbly. and receive correction humbly. and receive correction humbly. We will be active in evangelism, taking We will be active in evangelism, taking We will be active in evangelism, taking the initiative to proclaim Christ in the the initiative to proclaim Christ in the the initiative to proclaim Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit, leaving the power of the Holy Spirit, leaving the power of the Holy Spirit, leaving the results to God. results to God. results to God. We will endeavor as the family of Christ We will endeavor as the family of Christ We will endeavor as the family of Christ to bring up the children under our care to bring up the children under our care to bring up the children under our care in the nurture and admonition of the in the nurture and admonition of the in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. We will rejoice at each other's Lord. We will rejoice at each other's Lord. We will rejoice at each other's happiness and endeavor with tenderness happiness and endeavor with tenderness happiness and endeavor with tenderness and sympathy to bear each other's and sympathy to bear each other's and sympathy to bear each other's burdens and sorrows. burdens and sorrows. burdens and sorrows. We will contribute cheerfully and We will contribute cheerfully and We will contribute cheerfully and regularly to the ministry of the church, regularly to the ministry of the church, regularly to the ministry of the church, to the needs of our neighbors, and to to the needs of our neighbors, and to to the needs of our neighbors, and to the spread of the gospel from the heart the spread of the gospel from the heart the spread of the gospel from the heart of Virginia to the ends of the earth.

of Virginia to the ends of the earth. of Virginia to the ends of the earth. If we leave this congregation, we will If we leave this congregation, we will If we leave this congregation, we will join another gospel preaching church as join another gospel preaching church as join another gospel preaching church as soon as possible where we can carry out soon as possible where we can carry out soon as possible where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the the spirit of this covenant and the the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's word. And here's the principles of God's word. And here's the principles of God's word. And here's the final one. And through life, whatever final one. And through life, whatever final one. And through life, whatever opposition may come, we will live for opposition may come, we will live for opposition may come, we will live for the glory of Him who has called us out the glory of Him who has called us out the glory of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light. of darkness into His marvelous light. of darkness into His marvelous light. I love being able to to point to that as I love being able to to point to that as I love being able to to point to that as a pastor to remind all of us, myself a pastor to remind all of us, myself a pastor to remind all of us, myself included, what we've signed up for when included, what we've signed up for when included, what we've signed up for when we've stepped into the sheep pen by we've stepped into the sheep pen by we've stepped into the sheep pen by God's grace. God's grace. God's grace. We hope this conversation has been We hope this conversation has been We hope this conversation has been encouraging to you. encouraging to you. encouraging to you. We hope maybe you'll even consider We hope maybe you'll even consider We hope maybe you'll even consider dusting off your documents and putting dusting off your documents and putting dusting off your documents and putting your statement of faith, your church your statement of faith, your church your statement of faith, your church covenant to use. If you have those, if covenant to use. If you have those, if covenant to use. If you have those, if you don't, whatever your polity or you don't, whatever your polity or you don't, whatever your polity or tradition allows, look into tradition allows, look into tradition allows, look into codifying what you believe as a church. codifying what you believe as a church. codifying what you believe as a church. Please do not be the kind of church, Please do not be the kind of church, Please do not be the kind of church, dear listener, where we go to your dear listener, where we go to your dear listener, where we go to your website and we have a hard time finding website and we have a hard time finding website and we have a hard time finding anything about what you believe. Uh anything about what you believe. Uh anything about what you believe. Uh Clarity is kindness. Truth in Clarity is kindness. Truth in Clarity is kindness. Truth in advertising is love.

advertising is love. advertising is love. And we hope you'll recommend this And we hope you'll recommend this And we hope you'll recommend this episode to a fellow pastor so they can episode to a fellow pastor so they can episode to a fellow pastor so they can find fresh joy in the work of ministry.