Billy Strings Escaped the Darkness. He’s Playing to Not Go Back. | The Interview

I kind of got wondering about my father, I kind of got wondering about my father, my biological father. I never knew him. my biological father. I never knew him. my biological father. I never knew him. And I always kind of thought, And I always kind of thought, And I always kind of thought, man, he must have loved heroin more than man, he must have loved heroin more than man, he must have loved heroin more than me. me. me. [music] I'm David Marques, and today I'm talking I'm David Marques, and today I'm talking to musical sensation Billy Strings. to musical sensation Billy Strings. to musical sensation Billy Strings. At 33 years old, Strings is bringing his At 33 years old, Strings is bringing his At 33 years old, Strings is bringing his blend of music influenced by bluegrass blend of music influenced by bluegrass blend of music influenced by bluegrass artists like Doc Watson and Bill Monroe artists like Doc Watson and Bill Monroe artists like Doc Watson and Bill Monroe [music] [music] [music] and jam bands like The Grateful Dead to and jam bands like The Grateful Dead to and jam bands like The Grateful Dead to sold out arenas across the country. He sold out arenas across the country. He sold out arenas across the country. He grew up in Michigan, surrounded by grew up in Michigan, surrounded by grew up in Michigan, surrounded by poverty and heavy drug use. [music] His poverty and heavy drug use. [music] His poverty and heavy drug use. [music] His new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is new album, So Much for Goodbyes, is inspired by his mother, who died about a inspired by his mother, who died about a inspired by his mother, who died about a year ago of an overdose. One of my year ago of an overdose. One of my year ago of an overdose. One of my [music] favorite tracks, Miltown Flood, [music] favorite tracks, Miltown Flood, [music] favorite tracks, Miltown Flood, is a melancholy story song which is is a melancholy story song which is is a melancholy story song which is built on Strings's beautiful guitar built on Strings's beautiful guitar built on Strings's beautiful guitar playing. That guitar playing I got to witness That guitar playing I got to witness firsthand in our second interview, which firsthand in our second interview, which firsthand in our second interview, which you'll want to stick around for. you'll want to stick around for. you'll want to stick around for. [music] Here's my conversation with Billy Here's my conversation with Billy Strings. But first, a [music] quick Strings. But first, a [music] quick Strings. But first, a [music] quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we message. If you're not a subscriber, we message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now have some news for you. You can now have some news for you. You can now explore the Times for free without payw explore the Times for free without payw explore the Times for free without payw walls during your first month in the New walls during your first month in the New walls during your first month in the New York Times app. Just download the app York Times app. Just download the app York Times app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, on to and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, on to and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, on to [music] the interview.

[music] the interview. [music] the interview. Thank you for taking the time to do Thank you for taking the time to do Thank you for taking the time to do this. I appreciate it. this. I appreciate it. this. I appreciate it. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah, of course. >> You know, I wanted to ask so you're >> You know, I wanted to ask so you're >> You know, I wanted to ask so you're you're playing all you know, all these you're playing all you know, all these you're playing all you know, all these soldout shows across the country this soldout shows across the country this soldout shows across the country this summer and and later in the summer, summer and and later in the summer, summer and and later in the summer, you're even doing your own festival. you're even doing your own festival. you're even doing your own festival. It's pretty wild for someone who like It's pretty wild for someone who like It's pretty wild for someone who like got their start playing bluegrass music got their start playing bluegrass music got their start playing bluegrass music and still plays music that's so informed and still plays music that's so informed and still plays music that's so informed by traditional bluegrass music to like by traditional bluegrass music to like by traditional bluegrass music to like just have achieved what you've achieved. just have achieved what you've achieved. just have achieved what you've achieved. Was there a a moment for you that stands Was there a a moment for you that stands Was there a a moment for you that stands out as sort of representing like when out as sort of representing like when out as sort of representing like when you realize like, oh, this this has you realize like, oh, this this has you realize like, oh, this this has actually gotten really big? actually gotten really big? actually gotten really big? >> Yeah. I went from playing in my bedroom >> Yeah. I went from playing in my bedroom >> Yeah. I went from playing in my bedroom to playing in coffee houses and pubs and to playing in coffee houses and pubs and to playing in coffee houses and pubs and restaurants and stuff like that. And restaurants and stuff like that. And restaurants and stuff like that. And eventually I was able to put in my two eventually I was able to put in my two eventually I was able to put in my two weeks at my day job, which was working weeks at my day job, which was working weeks at my day job, which was working at a hotel up in uh Traverse City. at a hotel up in uh Traverse City. at a hotel up in uh Traverse City. And at that point, I I thought, man, if And at that point, I I thought, man, if And at that point, I I thought, man, if I never get any bigger than this, I'd be I never get any bigger than this, I'd be I never get any bigger than this, I'd be happy. I'm making a living playing happy. I'm making a living playing happy. I'm making a living playing music. Um, I remember when I I put out music. Um, I remember when I I put out music. Um, I remember when I I put out my first record, Turmoil and Tinfoil. I my first record, Turmoil and Tinfoil. I my first record, Turmoil and Tinfoil. I never thought about how the record would never thought about how the record would never thought about how the record would be like good for my career. I was just be like good for my career. I was just be like good for my career. I was just trying to record these songs. Um, I trying to record these songs. Um, I trying to record these songs. Um, I wrote down a bunch of stuff that was wrote down a bunch of stuff that was wrote down a bunch of stuff that was personal to me and it was kind of like personal to me and it was kind of like personal to me and it was kind of like writing in my diary or something. And I writing in my diary or something. And I writing in my diary or something. And I I just wanted to make this art and I was I just wanted to make this art and I was I just wanted to make this art and I was really focused on that. And then I really focused on that. And then I really focused on that. And then I remember when we actually sold some remember when we actually sold some remember when we actually sold some records and I was like, whoa.

records and I was like, whoa. records and I was like, whoa. It was just kind of a um a big eye It was just kind of a um a big eye It was just kind of a um a big eye opener to me. I never thought about the opener to me. I never thought about the opener to me. I never thought about the record helping to further my career. record helping to further my career. record helping to further my career. >> Can you tell me about the title of the >> Can you tell me about the title of the >> Can you tell me about the title of the new album, So Much for Goodbyes? What new album, So Much for Goodbyes? What new album, So Much for Goodbyes? What does that mean? Where does it come from? does that mean? Where does it come from? does that mean? Where does it come from? >> Yeah. Um my mom passed away last June, >> Yeah. Um my mom passed away last June, >> Yeah. Um my mom passed away last June, just over a year ago. I was actually on just over a year ago. I was actually on just over a year ago. I was actually on my way to a show in Kentucky my way to a show in Kentucky my way to a show in Kentucky and and and I just woke up the next morning on the I just woke up the next morning on the I just woke up the next morning on the bus and my wife came back and she told bus and my wife came back and she told bus and my wife came back and she told me the news. me the news. me the news. And to me it was it was this kind of sad And to me it was it was this kind of sad And to me it was it was this kind of sad thing, you know, this idea that I didn't thing, you know, this idea that I didn't thing, you know, this idea that I didn't get to say goodbye. get to say goodbye. get to say goodbye. But when I told my manager But when I told my manager But when I told my manager about the title, he's kind of like, man, about the title, he's kind of like, man, about the title, he's kind of like, man, I like that, you know, cuz it's it's not I like that, you know, cuz it's it's not I like that, you know, cuz it's it's not really goodbye. She's in everything and really goodbye. She's in everything and really goodbye. She's in everything and and she's everywhere and I'm her one of and she's everywhere and I'm her one of and she's everywhere and I'm her one of her greatest creations. you know, she her greatest creations. you know, she her greatest creations. you know, she was so artistic and so creative that was so artistic and so creative that was so artistic and so creative that that she made me and my brother and that she made me and my brother and that she made me and my brother and sister and sister and sister and um so I like the idea that it can kind um so I like the idea that it can kind um so I like the idea that it can kind of be taken both ways, of be taken both ways, of be taken both ways, you know, so much for goodbyes, like I you know, so much for goodbyes, like I you know, so much for goodbyes, like I didn't get to say goodbye, but also so didn't get to say goodbye, but also so didn't get to say goodbye, but also so much for goodbyes because it's not much for goodbyes because it's not much for goodbyes because it's not really goodbye.

really goodbye. really goodbye. I'm I'm I'm >> I'm I'm sorry for your loss. If you >> I'm I'm sorry for your loss. If you >> I'm I'm sorry for your loss. If you don't mind me asking, how did your mom don't mind me asking, how did your mom don't mind me asking, how did your mom pass away? pass away? pass away? um um um she struggled she struggled she struggled her whole life uh with different kinds her whole life uh with different kinds her whole life uh with different kinds of substance abuses and I think she had of substance abuses and I think she had of substance abuses and I think she had a lot of unresolved trauma a lot of unresolved trauma a lot of unresolved trauma um that she um that she um that she never really had like proper therapy for never really had like proper therapy for never really had like proper therapy for and I think that was her way of kind of and I think that was her way of kind of and I think that was her way of kind of getting through some of that uh was getting through some of that uh was getting through some of that uh was medicating herself and medicating herself and medicating herself and um So, um So, um So, you know, she she had an illness that you know, she she had an illness that you know, she she had an illness that eventually she succumbed to. So, she she eventually she succumbed to. So, she she eventually she succumbed to. So, she she died of a of an overdose. died of a of an overdose. died of a of an overdose. And um it was a a shock to me because I And um it was a a shock to me because I And um it was a a shock to me because I I had no idea that she was using again. I had no idea that she was using again. I had no idea that she was using again. And she seemed to be doing really well. And she seemed to be doing really well. And she seemed to be doing really well. on her addiction, you know, has on her addiction, you know, has on her addiction, you know, has caused a lot of uh caused a lot of uh caused a lot of uh trauma and stuff in my own life. And trauma and stuff in my own life. And trauma and stuff in my own life. And it's she's kind of like a a conundrum it's she's kind of like a a conundrum it's she's kind of like a a conundrum because she's such a beautiful amazing because she's such a beautiful amazing because she's such a beautiful amazing artistic and just an amazing person.

artistic and just an amazing person. artistic and just an amazing person. There's I've never met anybody like her. There's I've never met anybody like her. There's I've never met anybody like her. You know, we always talked about having You know, we always talked about having You know, we always talked about having her make the art for the next record her make the art for the next record her make the art for the next record cover. She was an artist. She always was cover. She was an artist. She always was cover. She was an artist. She always was making art, these little shadow boxes making art, these little shadow boxes making art, these little shadow boxes and mixed media art. And she would and mixed media art. And she would and mixed media art. And she would always be collecting kind of these always be collecting kind of these always be collecting kind of these little trinkets and pieces of junk and little trinkets and pieces of junk and little trinkets and pieces of junk and stuff. And she would take all this stuff. And she would take all this stuff. And she would take all this forgotten rusty old crap and glue it forgotten rusty old crap and glue it forgotten rusty old crap and glue it together to make something beautiful. together to make something beautiful. together to make something beautiful. And uh And uh And uh so even before this record was before I so even before this record was before I so even before this record was before I had any of the songs for it, she was had any of the songs for it, she was had any of the songs for it, she was going to make the next record cover. going to make the next record cover. going to make the next record cover. That was our our goal and our dream. And That was our our goal and our dream. And That was our our goal and our dream. And I told her, you know, you can make the I told her, you know, you can make the I told her, you know, you can make the next record cover, you know, with your next record cover, you know, with your next record cover, you know, with your art. And we did. We got to make her art. And we did. We got to make her art. And we did. We got to make her piece of art, the record cover, which I piece of art, the record cover, which I piece of art, the record cover, which I was really, really stoked on. It was was really, really stoked on. It was was really, really stoked on. It was actually the piece that she was working actually the piece that she was working actually the piece that she was working on the night she died. It was the last on the night she died. It was the last on the night she died. It was the last thing she touched. thing she touched. thing she touched. Are there songs on the album that allow Are there songs on the album that allow Are there songs on the album that allow you to feel like you're saying things to you to feel like you're saying things to you to feel like you're saying things to her that you would have said that you her that you would have said that you her that you would have said that you didn't get a chance to say?

didn't get a chance to say? didn't get a chance to say? Yeah. I think the big one on this record Yeah. I think the big one on this record Yeah. I think the big one on this record when it comes to that sort of thing is when it comes to that sort of thing is when it comes to that sort of thing is uh it's called Still I Crash. uh it's called Still I Crash. uh it's called Still I Crash. And I wrote that song And I wrote that song And I wrote that song not too long after she died. not too long after she died. not too long after she died. And And And That's the one that's pretty blatantly That's the one that's pretty blatantly That's the one that's pretty blatantly kind of me talking to her, you know, kind of me talking to her, you know, kind of me talking to her, you know, just wondering where she went, just wondering where she went, just wondering where she went, asking her where where did she go and asking her where where did she go and asking her where where did she go and why and um explaining the fact that I why and um explaining the fact that I why and um explaining the fact that I feel like I have to learn how to walk feel like I have to learn how to walk feel like I have to learn how to walk again again again like a child. like a child. like a child. Um Um Um and yeah, just how difficult it is to be and yeah, just how difficult it is to be and yeah, just how difficult it is to be here without her. here without her. here without her. >> Yeah, it's hard. You know, my um my mom >> Yeah, it's hard. You know, my um my mom >> Yeah, it's hard. You know, my um my mom died two years ago. She had had ALS and died two years ago. She had had ALS and died two years ago. She had had ALS and then she did um they call it medical aid then she did um they call it medical aid then she did um they call it medical aid in dying. Like, you know, she she in dying. Like, you know, she she in dying. Like, you know, she she decided she didn't want to be around decided she didn't want to be around decided she didn't want to be around anymore and suffer. So, she had someone anymore and suffer. So, she had someone anymore and suffer. So, she had someone come and help her. But I I I was able to come and help her. But I I I was able to come and help her. But I I I was able to say what I wanted to say to her because say what I wanted to say to her because say what I wanted to say to her because we knew when it was going to happen. But we knew when it was going to happen. But we knew when it was going to happen. But then my my dad died in at the end of then my my dad died in at the end of then my my dad died in at the end of April and I had it was sort of like your April and I had it was sort of like your April and I had it was sort of like your mom completely unexpected. I had a hard mom completely unexpected. I had a hard mom completely unexpected. I had a hard relationship with him. But just when you relationship with him. But just when you relationship with him. But just when you don't when you don't have the chance to don't when you don't have the chance to don't when you don't have the chance to say things that you feel like you wanted say things that you feel like you wanted say things that you feel like you wanted to say it's uh to say it's uh to say it's uh it just there it's like an open wound

it just there it's like an open wound it just there it's like an open wound that you're not sure when it's going to that you're not sure when it's going to that you're not sure when it's going to close. Whereas with my mom, I feel like close. Whereas with my mom, I feel like close. Whereas with my mom, I feel like there aren't unanswered questions or there aren't unanswered questions or there aren't unanswered questions or there wasn't anything left unsaid. So, there wasn't anything left unsaid. So, there wasn't anything left unsaid. So, the grief feels very very different. the grief feels very very different. the grief feels very very different. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's uh it's not >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's uh it's not >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's uh it's not better or worse either way, I don't better or worse either way, I don't better or worse either way, I don't think. And it's just one of those things think. And it's just one of those things think. And it's just one of those things we have to learn to we have to learn to we have to learn to live with, you know, and try to just live with, you know, and try to just live with, you know, and try to just remember who she was and remember who she was and remember who she was and and and love and cherish her memory and and and love and cherish her memory and and and love and cherish her memory and live up to her wildness, you know. She's live up to her wildness, you know. She's live up to her wildness, you know. She's kind of she's inspired me to really let kind of she's inspired me to really let kind of she's inspired me to really let loose and let my freak flag fly a little loose and let my freak flag fly a little loose and let my freak flag fly a little bit more, you know, live more the way bit more, you know, live more the way bit more, you know, live more the way she lived than trying to be so cautious she lived than trying to be so cautious she lived than trying to be so cautious all the time. You know, I feel like I've all the time. You know, I feel like I've all the time. You know, I feel like I've always tried to always tried to always tried to stay out of trouble and, stay out of trouble and, stay out of trouble and, you know, do the best I can to just not you know, do the best I can to just not you know, do the best I can to just not get myself hung up. But my mom would get myself hung up. But my mom would get myself hung up. But my mom would just live life to the fullest just live life to the fullest just live life to the fullest constantly. And so she, you know, she constantly. And so she, you know, she constantly. And so she, you know, she inspires me to kind of live a little bit inspires me to kind of live a little bit inspires me to kind of live a little bit more on the wild side, you know.

more on the wild side, you know. more on the wild side, you know. >> And how does playing music help process >> And how does playing music help process >> And how does playing music help process the the feelings that you have, whether the the feelings that you have, whether the the feelings that you have, whether it's [snorts] about your mom or anything it's [snorts] about your mom or anything it's [snorts] about your mom or anything else? else? else? Well, it's always been my Well, it's always been my Well, it's always been my coping mechanism and survival strategy coping mechanism and survival strategy coping mechanism and survival strategy and uh my medicine, you know, and um you and uh my medicine, you know, and um you and uh my medicine, you know, and um you know, playing bluegrass music is know, playing bluegrass music is know, playing bluegrass music is it's like a portal back to my childhood it's like a portal back to my childhood it's like a portal back to my childhood um um um back before I knew anything dirty about back before I knew anything dirty about back before I knew anything dirty about the earth. I think it's the earth. I think it's the earth. I think it's it's a way for me to go back to a time it's a way for me to go back to a time it's a way for me to go back to a time that was just beautiful and full of that was just beautiful and full of that was just beautiful and full of light light light and and and it you know it can give me deja vu stuff it you know it can give me deja vu stuff it you know it can give me deja vu stuff like that. You know growing up playing like that. You know growing up playing like that. You know growing up playing music with my dad and then you know music with my dad and then you know music with my dad and then you know songwriting and stuff like that. It's songwriting and stuff like that. It's songwriting and stuff like that. It's kind of my cathartic and therapeutic way kind of my cathartic and therapeutic way kind of my cathartic and therapeutic way of of of dealing with things. I think sublimation dealing with things. I think sublimation dealing with things. I think sublimation is one of my is one of my is one of my my main kind of charact characteristics my main kind of charact characteristics my main kind of charact characteristics that I that I that I do in life. I just that I that I that I do in life. I just that I that I that I do in life. I just try to try to try to instead of letting this this hard stuff instead of letting this this hard stuff instead of letting this this hard stuff drag me down, I try to just make art drag me down, I try to just make art drag me down, I try to just make art from it, you know, make lemonade, if you from it, you know, make lemonade, if you from it, you know, make lemonade, if you will, will, will, >> you know?

>> you know? >> you know? when you were a kid, I know um you know when you were a kid, I know um you know when you were a kid, I know um you know sort of maybe a a chaotic uh way that sort of maybe a a chaotic uh way that sort of maybe a a chaotic uh way that you grew up in in uh in Michigan. You you grew up in in uh in Michigan. You you grew up in in uh in Michigan. You know, there was you you mentioned your know, there was you you mentioned your know, there was you you mentioned your mom's substance abuse problems and I mom's substance abuse problems and I mom's substance abuse problems and I know your you referred to your dad, but know your you referred to your dad, but know your you referred to your dad, but and he is your dad, but technically and he is your dad, but technically and he is your dad, but technically speaking, it's your stepfather, right? speaking, it's your stepfather, right? speaking, it's your stepfather, right? Because your your biological father died Because your your biological father died Because your your biological father died when you were really young from an when you were really young from an when you were really young from an overdose. It just sound it sounds hard, overdose. It just sound it sounds hard, overdose. It just sound it sounds hard, but how did music fit into your family but how did music fit into your family but how did music fit into your family life? Like what what role did it play life? Like what what role did it play life? Like what what role did it play for [snorts] you growing up in the for [snorts] you growing up in the for [snorts] you growing up in the family? family? family? >> You know, my biological father died >> You know, my biological father died >> You know, my biological father died before I ever knew him. I was 2 years before I ever knew him. I was 2 years before I ever knew him. I was 2 years old. And so when I say my dad, I'm old. And so when I say my dad, I'm old. And so when I say my dad, I'm speaking of Terry Barber. And he taught speaking of Terry Barber. And he taught speaking of Terry Barber. And he taught me how to tie my shoes and wipe my ass me how to tie my shoes and wipe my ass me how to tie my shoes and wipe my ass and how to play guitar and and all that. and how to play guitar and and all that. and how to play guitar and and all that. And I think And I think And I think early on it was a way for me to bond early on it was a way for me to bond early on it was a way for me to bond with him.

with him. with him. And the better I got, I kind of, you And the better I got, I kind of, you And the better I got, I kind of, you know, would get attention from that. And know, would get attention from that. And know, would get attention from that. And I think I I liked that. So I just I think I I liked that. So I just I think I I liked that. So I just kept trying to get better and better and kept trying to get better and better and kept trying to get better and better and make him proud. make him proud. make him proud. And I still do that to this day. I mean, And I still do that to this day. I mean, And I still do that to this day. I mean, even back when my mom was still alive, even back when my mom was still alive, even back when my mom was still alive, um, anytime I would reach some sort of um, anytime I would reach some sort of um, anytime I would reach some sort of milestone, milestone, milestone, you know, I remember one of the last you know, I remember one of the last you know, I remember one of the last ones was when I played with Bob Dylan, ones was when I played with Bob Dylan, ones was when I played with Bob Dylan, you know, I'm calling my mom right you know, I'm calling my mom right you know, I'm calling my mom right before walking on stage and I'm like, before walking on stage and I'm like, before walking on stage and I'm like, you're never going to believe this. I'm you're never going to believe this. I'm you're never going to believe this. I'm getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. getting ready to go play with Bob Dylan. But back when I was a kid, you know, But back when I was a kid, you know, But back when I was a kid, you know, before any of the fame and all this before any of the fame and all this before any of the fame and all this stuff, it was just kind of our way of stuff, it was just kind of our way of stuff, it was just kind of our way of life, you know? I mean, it was like it's life, you know? I mean, it was like it's life, you know? I mean, it was like it's just what we did. We just played music just what we did. We just played music just what we did. We just played music around my house. It was if I wasn't around my house. It was if I wasn't around my house. It was if I wasn't playing uh old bluegrass tunes with my playing uh old bluegrass tunes with my playing uh old bluegrass tunes with my dad, I was listening to my mom playing dad, I was listening to my mom playing dad, I was listening to my mom playing Beatles records and stuff like that. And Beatles records and stuff like that. And Beatles records and stuff like that. And I remember being a little kid, I remember being a little kid, I remember being a little kid, you know, this is kind of a a good you know, this is kind of a a good you know, this is kind of a a good portrait of how my mother w was. I was portrait of how my mother w was. I was portrait of how my mother w was. I was probably probably probably maybe 7 years old and she was playing maybe 7 years old and she was playing maybe 7 years old and she was playing the Beatles re the white album backwards the Beatles re the white album backwards the Beatles re the white album backwards for me listening to Revolution number for me listening to Revolution number for me listening to Revolution number nine, nine, nine, >> right? For secret messages or something.

>> right? For secret messages or something. >> right? For secret messages or something. >> Yeah. She was backwards masking kind of >> Yeah. She was backwards masking kind of >> Yeah. She was backwards masking kind of showing me all how this stuff works. And showing me all how this stuff works. And showing me all how this stuff works. And I was just just a little kid, you know. I was just just a little kid, you know. I was just just a little kid, you know. [laughter] I was like, "What the heck?" [laughter] I was like, "What the heck?" [laughter] I was like, "What the heck?" But, uh, it music was always, yeah, it But, uh, it music was always, yeah, it But, uh, it music was always, yeah, it was always a big a big deal. Did you was always a big a big deal. Did you was always a big a big deal. Did you also, you know, what you just described also, you know, what you just described also, you know, what you just described sounds, um, sounds, um, sounds, um, like very sort of uh, buoyant and and like very sort of uh, buoyant and and like very sort of uh, buoyant and and and positive and it felt and that was a and positive and it felt and that was a and positive and it felt and that was a natural part of how you were growing up, natural part of how you were growing up, natural part of how you were growing up, but then there was this sort of other but then there was this sort of other but then there was this sort of other darker side. Was it hard for you to make darker side. Was it hard for you to make darker side. Was it hard for you to make sense of those of like the the light and sense of those of like the the light and sense of those of like the the light and the dark in your family at the same time the dark in your family at the same time the dark in your family at the same time or was it just that's just what you knew or was it just that's just what you knew or was it just that's just what you knew and so you didn't really think about it? and so you didn't really think about it? and so you didn't really think about it? Well, I mean early on it wasn't so bad. Well, I mean early on it wasn't so bad. Well, I mean early on it wasn't so bad. You know, [clears throat] You know, [clears throat] You know, [clears throat] I think by the time I was old enough to I think by the time I was old enough to I think by the time I was old enough to kind of remember stuff, like four years kind of remember stuff, like four years kind of remember stuff, like four years old or so, um old or so, um old or so, um my parents, you know, were doing pretty my parents, you know, were doing pretty my parents, you know, were doing pretty good. There was just some bush lights good. There was just some bush lights good. There was just some bush lights and, you know, a few joints here and and, you know, a few joints here and and, you know, a few joints here and there. It wasn't anything hard or crazy.

there. It wasn't anything hard or crazy. there. It wasn't anything hard or crazy. So, my early childhood was really So, my early childhood was really So, my early childhood was really beautiful and surrounded by music and beautiful and surrounded by music and beautiful and surrounded by music and friends and we had food in the friends and we had food in the friends and we had food in the cupboards, you know, we lived in a cupboards, you know, we lived in a cupboards, you know, we lived in a trailer, but it was a nice trailer. And trailer, but it was a nice trailer. And trailer, but it was a nice trailer. And uh we got out of the trailer park and we uh we got out of the trailer park and we uh we got out of the trailer park and we got this place over in Mure got this place over in Mure got this place over in Mure uh and you know we had a swimming pool uh and you know we had a swimming pool uh and you know we had a swimming pool and my mom was digging in her garden and and my mom was digging in her garden and and my mom was digging in her garden and things were good and then things were good and then things were good and then it just started to go downhill. it just started to go downhill. it just started to go downhill. Uh, you know, by the time I was 10, 11, Uh, you know, by the time I was 10, 11, Uh, you know, by the time I was 10, 11, 12, we moved into this other house that 12, we moved into this other house that 12, we moved into this other house that was a lot more kind of run down. And was a lot more kind of run down. And was a lot more kind of run down. And I think my dad lost his job and we just I think my dad lost his job and we just I think my dad lost his job and we just started struggling a lot more started struggling a lot more started struggling a lot more financially. That was at the same time financially. That was at the same time financially. That was at the same time that my parents were kind of falling that my parents were kind of falling that my parents were kind of falling into this addiction. And then after into this addiction. And then after into this addiction. And then after quite a few years of that, um, quite a few years of that, um, quite a few years of that, um, you know, I just moved out. I moved out you know, I just moved out. I moved out you know, I just moved out. I moved out of my mom's house when I was 13. And um of my mom's house when I was 13. And um of my mom's house when I was 13. And um I was trying to like guilt trip him into I was trying to like guilt trip him into I was trying to like guilt trip him into seeing what they were doing, you know? I seeing what they were doing, you know? I seeing what they were doing, you know? I mean, there wasn't any food. There was mean, there wasn't any food. There was mean, there wasn't any food. There was my house was no longer a home.

my house was no longer a home. my house was no longer a home. So I I took off. My friend Brad came and So I I took off. My friend Brad came and So I I took off. My friend Brad came and picked me up in his truck and I went and picked me up in his truck and I went and picked me up in his truck and I went and stayed in his basement for a while. And stayed in his basement for a while. And stayed in his basement for a while. And I was playing in a heavy metal band at I was playing in a heavy metal band at I was playing in a heavy metal band at that time and I kind of was just couch that time and I kind of was just couch that time and I kind of was just couch surfing. And when I realized that me surfing. And when I realized that me surfing. And when I realized that me moving out wasn't going to change moving out wasn't going to change moving out wasn't going to change anything. anything. anything. That's when I was like, "Oh no, I That's when I was like, "Oh no, I That's when I was like, "Oh no, I actually actually actually now I'm actually kind of homeless." You now I'm actually kind of homeless." You now I'm actually kind of homeless." You know, when I moved out, I was trying to know, when I moved out, I was trying to know, when I moved out, I was trying to cause a big scene to try to guilt trip cause a big scene to try to guilt trip cause a big scene to try to guilt trip people into realize what realizing what people into realize what realizing what people into realize what realizing what was going on, but it didn't work. So was going on, but it didn't work. So was going on, but it didn't work. So then I had to just figure it out. But then I had to just figure it out. But then I had to just figure it out. But eventually, you know, I never disowned eventually, you know, I never disowned eventually, you know, I never disowned my parents or I never like cut ties with my parents or I never like cut ties with my parents or I never like cut ties with them. And it actually became this kind them. And it actually became this kind them. And it actually became this kind of era of I was a young teenager and I of era of I was a young teenager and I of era of I was a young teenager and I was starting into was starting into was starting into trying things myself. trying things myself. trying things myself. And um And um And um eventually it became a really cool party eventually it became a really cool party eventually it became a really cool party house because I could show up there house because I could show up there house because I could show up there with several carloads full of miners and with several carloads full of miners and with several carloads full of miners and a bunch of half gallons of whiskey and a bunch of half gallons of whiskey and a bunch of half gallons of whiskey and stuff and like we can party at my house, stuff and like we can party at my house, stuff and like we can party at my house, my mom's, you know. And uh they couldn't my mom's, you know. And uh they couldn't my mom's, you know. And uh they couldn't tell me no. My dad would always be like, tell me no. My dad would always be like, tell me no. My dad would always be like, "You're not having all these minors "You're not having all these minors "You're not having all these minors drinking here?" I'm like, "Okay, well, drinking here?" I'm like, "Okay, well, drinking here?" I'm like, "Okay, well, what are you going to do? call the cops, what are you going to do? call the cops, what are you going to do? call the cops, you know. So, I eventually just started you know. So, I eventually just started you know. So, I eventually just started partying with them. And uh

partying with them. And uh partying with them. And uh you know, when you lose people to you know, when you lose people to you know, when you lose people to addiction like that, especially as a addiction like that, especially as a addiction like that, especially as a young kid, you almost wonder why or what young kid, you almost wonder why or what young kid, you almost wonder why or what it is that's so powerful that basically it is that's so powerful that basically it is that's so powerful that basically took them from me. I mean, I remember a took them from me. I mean, I remember a took them from me. I mean, I remember a time that's actually what the song time that's actually what the song time that's actually what the song Turmoil and Tinfoil is about. I was Turmoil and Tinfoil is about. I was Turmoil and Tinfoil is about. I was staring right at my mother. She's staring right at my mother. She's staring right at my mother. She's sitting right there. But I missed her. sitting right there. But I missed her. sitting right there. But I missed her. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> She's not herself anymore. Her soul and >> She's not herself anymore. Her soul and >> She's not herself anymore. Her soul and her beautiful vibrancy is gone. It's her beautiful vibrancy is gone. It's her beautiful vibrancy is gone. It's just this kind of gray shell of a person just this kind of gray shell of a person just this kind of gray shell of a person that is really sick. that is really sick. that is really sick. So, um you know, you wonder yourself, what um you know, you wonder yourself, what is this stuff all about? So, you know, I is this stuff all about? So, you know, I is this stuff all about? So, you know, I was 16 the first time I smoked meth was 16 the first time I smoked meth was 16 the first time I smoked meth uh with my mom. uh with my mom. uh with my mom. And And And around that time is when I, you know, I around that time is when I, you know, I around that time is when I, you know, I was probably 15 when I started doing was probably 15 when I started doing was probably 15 when I started doing Coke. And by the time I was 16, I was Coke. And by the time I was 16, I was Coke. And by the time I was 16, I was doing speed and doing speed and doing speed and trying crack and stuff. And then a trying crack and stuff. And then a trying crack and stuff. And then a couple years later after that, I kind of couple years later after that, I kind of couple years later after that, I kind of got wondering about my father, my got wondering about my father, my got wondering about my father, my biological father. I never knew him. And biological father. I never knew him. And biological father. I never knew him. And I always kind of thought, I always kind of thought, I always kind of thought, man, he must have loved heroin more than man, he must have loved heroin more than man, he must have loved heroin more than me. So I always wondered what was so me. So I always wondered what was so me. So I always wondered what was so good that it was better than me. So good that it was better than me. So good that it was better than me. So that's when I, you know, would try that's when I, you know, would try that's when I, you know, would try heroin and stuff like that because I heroin and stuff like that because I heroin and stuff like that because I just had to see what it was all about.

just had to see what it was all about. just had to see what it was all about. And um so I don't know, I got a lot of And um so I don't know, I got a lot of And um so I don't know, I got a lot of that stuff out of my system early on. that stuff out of my system early on. that stuff out of my system early on. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think it was a good thing. I never >> And I think it was a good thing. I never >> And I think it was a good thing. I never really got hooked on anything because I really got hooked on anything because I really got hooked on anything because I was always surrounded by by tweakers and was always surrounded by by tweakers and was always surrounded by by tweakers and junkies and stuff. So I I saw how bad junkies and stuff. So I I saw how bad junkies and stuff. So I I saw how bad these people's lives were and I never these people's lives were and I never these people's lives were and I never wanted to let myself get that far. So if wanted to let myself get that far. So if wanted to let myself get that far. So if I if I tried anything out of curiosity, I if I tried anything out of curiosity, I if I tried anything out of curiosity, I would try it once and I would leave it I would try it once and I would leave it I would try it once and I would leave it alone for a while, you know. alone for a while, you know. alone for a while, you know. >> But when you when you were younger and >> But when you when you were younger and >> But when you when you were younger and partying with your parents, I would I partying with your parents, I would I partying with your parents, I would I would bet that there was some part of would bet that there was some part of would bet that there was some part of you inside that was not that felt you inside that was not that felt you inside that was not that felt conflicted about it or felt conflicted about it or felt conflicted about it or felt uncomfortable with it. Did you and your uncomfortable with it. Did you and your uncomfortable with it. Did you and your mom and your dad ever talk about that mom and your dad ever talk about that mom and your dad ever talk about that period in in your life when you were period in in your life when you were period in in your life when you were sharing that kind of stuff? sharing that kind of stuff? sharing that kind of stuff? No. No, it was it was just what it was. No. No, it was it was just what it was. No. No, it was it was just what it was. I mean, sometimes, you know, we'd get I mean, sometimes, you know, we'd get I mean, sometimes, you know, we'd get high and I would play guitar with my dad high and I would play guitar with my dad high and I would play guitar with my dad until the sun came up. I mean, hours. until the sun came up. I mean, hours. until the sun came up. I mean, hours. And again, now we're bonding again.

And again, now we're bonding again. And again, now we're bonding again. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that felt good. And it's, you know, >> And that felt good. And it's, you know, >> And that felt good. And it's, you know, you had this sort of odd situation where you had this sort of odd situation where you had this sort of odd situation where you were getting the you're playing you were getting the you're playing you were getting the you're playing guitar with your dad and you were guitar with your dad and you were guitar with your dad and you were getting praised for it and you were getting praised for it and you were getting praised for it and you were getting attention for it even if sort of getting attention for it even if sort of getting attention for it even if sort of like the circumstances in which it was like the circumstances in which it was like the circumstances in which it was occurring [snorts] were kind of rough occurring [snorts] were kind of rough occurring [snorts] were kind of rough circumstances. But when did you realize circumstances. But when did you realize circumstances. But when did you realize that you were you were actually like that you were you were actually like that you were you were actually like that you were good at guitar? Not just that you were good at guitar? Not just that you were good at guitar? Not just that you could, you know, pick a tune, that you could, you know, pick a tune, that you could, you know, pick a tune, but that you had a real gift for it. I but that you had a real gift for it. I but that you had a real gift for it. I mean, that was early on. mean, that was early on. mean, that was early on. >> I I started playing when I was about >> I I started playing when I was about >> I I started playing when I was about four years old. By the time I was six or four years old. By the time I was six or four years old. By the time I was six or seven, I could carry a tune and and I seven, I could carry a tune and and I seven, I could carry a tune and and I was my dad's rhythm player. He would was my dad's rhythm player. He would was my dad's rhythm player. He would play all the lead and do all the fancy play all the lead and do all the fancy play all the lead and do all the fancy picking and singing and I would hold picking and singing and I would hold picking and singing and I would hold down the rhythm for him. So, by the time down the rhythm for him. So, by the time down the rhythm for him. So, by the time I was six or seven, I knew a lot of I was six or seven, I knew a lot of I was six or seven, I knew a lot of bluegrass songs. And one of the biggest bluegrass songs. And one of the biggest bluegrass songs. And one of the biggest moments for me was I was sitting in my moments for me was I was sitting in my moments for me was I was sitting in my dad's bedroom with him as I would dad's bedroom with him as I would dad's bedroom with him as I would basically every night um sitting there basically every night um sitting there basically every night um sitting there playing two guitars playing two guitars playing two guitars and he was teaching me the song Bowmont and he was teaching me the song Bowmont and he was teaching me the song Bowmont Rag Rag Rag and and and we would play the tune and I would mess we would play the tune and I would mess we would play the tune and I would mess up the second part every time and you up the second part every time and you up the second part every time and you know I stopped us right in the middle of know I stopped us right in the middle of know I stopped us right in the middle of the song. I said stop. why don't you the song. I said stop. why don't you the song. I said stop. why don't you just play it and let me listen just play it and let me listen just play it and let me listen and uh so that's what we did. I I just and uh so that's what we did. I I just and uh so that's what we did. I I just listened to him playing it. And instead listened to him playing it. And instead listened to him playing it. And instead of trying to count,

of trying to count, of trying to count, you know, 1 2 3 4 on the D chord and 1 2 you know, 1 2 3 4 on the D chord and 1 2 you know, 1 2 3 4 on the D chord and 1 2 3 4 on the A chord, I listened to what 3 4 on the A chord, I listened to what 3 4 on the A chord, I listened to what he was playing. I listened to the he was playing. I listened to the he was playing. I listened to the melody. And um so then I was like, "All melody. And um so then I was like, "All melody. And um so then I was like, "All right, let me try it again." And instead right, let me try it again." And instead right, let me try it again." And instead of counting, I was just I heard the of counting, I was just I heard the of counting, I was just I heard the melody. I heard what he was doing. melody. I heard what he was doing. melody. I heard what he was doing. >> Yeah. He was queuing you, right? >> Yeah. He was queuing you, right? >> Yeah. He was queuing you, right? >> Exactly. Yeah. And so that >> Exactly. Yeah. And so that >> Exactly. Yeah. And so that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then I nailed it. And he was he was >> And then I nailed it. And he was he was >> And then I nailed it. And he was he was awful proud. He called my grandma, made awful proud. He called my grandma, made awful proud. He called my grandma, made her listen on the phone. And uh that was her listen on the phone. And uh that was her listen on the phone. And uh that was a big moment for me because he was he a big moment for me because he was he a big moment for me because he was he was awful proud and I was proud. And was awful proud and I was proud. And was awful proud and I was proud. And that's when this this sort of this that's when this this sort of this that's when this this sort of this listening thing started listening thing started listening thing started when I was able to listen to the music when I was able to listen to the music when I was able to listen to the music more intently and I I could tell what more intently and I I could tell what more intently and I I could tell what chord was coming next. I used to think I chord was coming next. I used to think I chord was coming next. I used to think I was magic or something. I mean, I had no was magic or something. I mean, I had no was magic or something. I mean, I had no concept of music theory or anything, but concept of music theory or anything, but concept of music theory or anything, but my dad would play, you know, maybe a G my dad would play, you know, maybe a G my dad would play, you know, maybe a G chord and then he would play a G7th chord and then he would play a G7th chord and then he would play a G7th and my ear would just lead me to the I'd and my ear would just lead me to the I'd and my ear would just lead me to the I'd be like, well, the next chord's probably be like, well, the next chord's probably be like, well, the next chord's probably going to be a C and then it would be I going to be a C and then it would be I going to be a C and then it would be I think bluegrass folk music and hillbilly think bluegrass folk music and hillbilly think bluegrass folk music and hillbilly [clears throat] music like that, [clears throat] music like that, [clears throat] music like that, it's kind of better to learn it that way it's kind of better to learn it that way it's kind of better to learn it that way than to try to learn it from some than to try to learn it from some than to try to learn it from some academic point of view. It's better to academic point of view. It's better to academic point of view. It's better to learn it on the back porch and to let it learn it on the back porch and to let it learn it on the back porch and to let it just get under your skin because then just get under your skin because then just get under your skin because then it's not some equation. It's a feeling.

it's not some equation. It's a feeling. it's not some equation. It's a feeling. It's a, you know, it comes from your It's a, you know, it comes from your It's a, you know, it comes from your soul. Was there um a time when you soul. Was there um a time when you soul. Was there um a time when you started to really think that that music started to really think that that music started to really think that that music and pursuing music could be sort of a and pursuing music could be sort of a and pursuing music could be sort of a way into a different kind of life than way into a different kind of life than way into a different kind of life than the one you were living? Like did did the one you were living? Like did did the one you were living? Like did did you think of it as as like a a way out? you think of it as as like a a way out? you think of it as as like a a way out? I never considered that. Um, growing up I never considered that. Um, growing up I never considered that. Um, growing up in the area that I did in the area that I did in the area that I did and just growing up the way that I did, and just growing up the way that I did, and just growing up the way that I did, seeing music as a career, seeing music as a career, seeing music as a career, you know, it just kind of seemed like a you know, it just kind of seemed like a you know, it just kind of seemed like a really far-fetched really far-fetched really far-fetched idea. Although, when I was younger, you idea. Although, when I was younger, you idea. Although, when I was younger, you like middle school and stuff, I mean, I like middle school and stuff, I mean, I like middle school and stuff, I mean, I used to I used to think I was going to used to I used to think I was going to used to I used to think I was going to be, you know, the next Jimmyi Hendris or be, you know, the next Jimmyi Hendris or be, you know, the next Jimmyi Hendris or something. And I used to dream about something. And I used to dream about something. And I used to dream about being a big rock star, but as I got a being a big rock star, but as I got a being a big rock star, but as I got a little older, I sort of realized that little older, I sort of realized that little older, I sort of realized that how, like I said, it's far-fetched, you how, like I said, it's far-fetched, you how, like I said, it's far-fetched, you know, but I never thought of it as a know, but I never thought of it as a know, but I never thought of it as a career until I started kind of I went career until I started kind of I went career until I started kind of I went out and did some open mic nights out out and did some open mic nights out out and did some open mic nights out there in Traverse City just for fun, there in Traverse City just for fun, there in Traverse City just for fun, just cuz my friends and I would be at just cuz my friends and I would be at just cuz my friends and I would be at home and let's go to the bar and, you home and let's go to the bar and, you home and let's go to the bar and, you know, I could sign up and play a few know, I could sign up and play a few know, I could sign up and play a few tunes. And this was before I was even tunes. And this was before I was even tunes. And this was before I was even old enough to be in the bar.

old enough to be in the bar. old enough to be in the bar. And uh And uh And uh I'd go up there and play a few tunes, I'd go up there and play a few tunes, I'd go up there and play a few tunes, flat pick a little number, and people flat pick a little number, and people flat pick a little number, and people would I'd get a standing ovation. And I would I'd get a standing ovation. And I would I'd get a standing ovation. And I started to realize, wow, this started to realize, wow, this started to realize, wow, this flatpicking stuff, this bluegrass stuff flatpicking stuff, this bluegrass stuff flatpicking stuff, this bluegrass stuff really gets people out of their seats. I really gets people out of their seats. I really gets people out of their seats. I mean, it's always been to me just mean, it's always been to me just mean, it's always been to me just something that I did around the house something that I did around the house something that I did around the house with my dad or whatever. something that with my dad or whatever. something that with my dad or whatever. something that I like because it brings me back to my I like because it brings me back to my I like because it brings me back to my childhood, but people really react to childhood, but people really react to childhood, but people really react to it. And uh it. And uh it. And uh it's when I started to kind of realize, it's when I started to kind of realize, it's when I started to kind of realize, man, maybe I do have something here. man, maybe I do have something here. man, maybe I do have something here. And uh it's kind of like, wow, these And uh it's kind of like, wow, these And uh it's kind of like, wow, these never these people never heard of Doc never these people never heard of Doc never these people never heard of Doc Watson before or what, you know? Watson before or what, you know? Watson before or what, you know? Well, but as as you know, someone who Well, but as as you know, someone who Well, but as as you know, someone who who knows about the predecessors, who who knows about the predecessors, who who knows about the predecessors, who knows Doc Watson, you know, who knows knows Doc Watson, you know, who knows knows Doc Watson, you know, who knows Tony Rice or you know, one of my Tony Rice or you know, one of my Tony Rice or you know, one of my favorite players is Clarence White. You favorite players is Clarence White. You favorite players is Clarence White. You ever listen to him? ever listen to him? ever listen to him? >> Of course. Yeah. >> Of course. Yeah. >> Of course. Yeah. >> Yeah. Beautiful player. Um and and and >> Yeah. Beautiful player. Um and and and >> Yeah. Beautiful player. Um and and and those those are some of the the greatest those those are some of the the greatest those those are some of the the greatest musicians who have ever lived play this musicians who have ever lived play this musicians who have ever lived play this incredibly beautiful music with such incredibly beautiful music with such incredibly beautiful music with such skill and heart. and they never skill and heart. and they never skill and heart. and they never attracted, you know, tens of thousands attracted, you know, tens of thousands attracted, you know, tens of thousands of people to arenas or uh had sort of of people to arenas or uh had sort of of people to arenas or uh had sort of the the mass success that you've been the the mass success that you've been the the mass success that you've been able to have. And do do you ever wonder able to have. And do do you ever wonder able to have. And do do you ever wonder like why you and not them? You must like why you and not them? You must like why you and not them? You must wonder about that, right?

wonder about that, right? wonder about that, right? Um yeah. I mean, on one hand, I don't Um yeah. I mean, on one hand, I don't Um yeah. I mean, on one hand, I don't know, [laughter] right? At a certain know, [laughter] right? At a certain know, [laughter] right? At a certain point, I stopped, you know, like wearing point, I stopped, you know, like wearing point, I stopped, you know, like wearing a suit and combing my hair back with a suit and combing my hair back with a suit and combing my hair back with pomade and trying to pretend like I was pomade and trying to pretend like I was pomade and trying to pretend like I was born in the Appalachian Mountains and born in the Appalachian Mountains and born in the Appalachian Mountains and my, you know, daddy was a coal miner and my, you know, daddy was a coal miner and my, you know, daddy was a coal miner and kind of doing this whole Civil War kind of doing this whole Civil War kind of doing this whole Civil War reenactment. reenactment. reenactment. Um, and I started just being myself. Um, and I started just being myself. Um, and I started just being myself. And I also And I also And I also allowed the other influences from other allowed the other influences from other allowed the other influences from other kinds of music that I enjoyed, you know, kinds of music that I enjoyed, you know, kinds of music that I enjoyed, you know, I enjoy everything from hip-hop to jazz I enjoy everything from hip-hop to jazz I enjoy everything from hip-hop to jazz and classic rock and heavy metal and, and classic rock and heavy metal and, and classic rock and heavy metal and, you know, death metal and hardcore and I you know, death metal and hardcore and I you know, death metal and hardcore and I played in heavy metal bands and stuff. So I I feel like my whole brain is just So I I feel like my whole brain is just this kind of musical goulash that's just this kind of musical goulash that's just this kind of musical goulash that's just all mixed together. And when I stopped all mixed together. And when I stopped all mixed together. And when I stopped trying to just be one thing and I just trying to just be one thing and I just trying to just be one thing and I just allowed myself to enjoy and allowed myself to enjoy and allowed myself to enjoy and basically accept all of those influences basically accept all of those influences basically accept all of those influences in my own music.

in my own music. in my own music. I feel like there's a very broad I feel like there's a very broad I feel like there's a very broad spectrum of people that what I do can spectrum of people that what I do can spectrum of people that what I do can attract. attract. attract. Um, people, everyone from metal heads to Um, people, everyone from metal heads to Um, people, everyone from metal heads to old bluegrassers to people that are into old bluegrassers to people that are into old bluegrassers to people that are into more improvisational music like the more improvisational music like the more improvisational music like the Grateful Dead. I mean, I got people from Grateful Dead. I mean, I got people from Grateful Dead. I mean, I got people from young teenagers to 70, 80 year old young teenagers to 70, 80 year old young teenagers to 70, 80 year old people in my crowd and I play a little people in my crowd and I play a little people in my crowd and I play a little bit for for all of them. I also I've bit for for all of them. I also I've bit for for all of them. I also I've just always paid attention to at least just always paid attention to at least just always paid attention to at least when I started to when I started to when I started to have a career in music. I I paid have a career in music. I I paid have a career in music. I I paid attention to the marketing side of it attention to the marketing side of it attention to the marketing side of it too. The the way that different bands too. The the way that different bands too. The the way that different bands from different genres uh would promote from different genres uh would promote from different genres uh would promote themselves. themselves. themselves. You know, bluegrass You know, bluegrass You know, bluegrass is is is is an old is an old is an old tradition and it's tradition and it's tradition and it's it's stayed kind of in the past in a lot it's stayed kind of in the past in a lot it's stayed kind of in the past in a lot of ways. You know, I remember when I was of ways. You know, I remember when I was of ways. You know, I remember when I was coming up, coming up, coming up, a lot of the flyers for a concert or a lot of the flyers for a concert or a lot of the flyers for a concert or something, it would look like look like something, it would look like look like something, it would look like look like a elementary school newsletter, a elementary school newsletter, a elementary school newsletter, you know. Meanwhile, I see these rappers you know. Meanwhile, I see these rappers you know. Meanwhile, I see these rappers and stuff.

and stuff. and stuff. You when they promote a concert, they You when they promote a concert, they You when they promote a concert, they have a video and everything. It looks have a video and everything. It looks have a video and everything. It looks like a movie, you know. And so I like a movie, you know. And so I like a movie, you know. And so I thought, man, we should do that or we thought, man, we should do that or we thought, man, we should do that or we should kind of mix these different ideas should kind of mix these different ideas should kind of mix these different ideas from different uh genres and stuff and from different uh genres and stuff and from different uh genres and stuff and just mix the way that different artists just mix the way that different artists just mix the way that different artists promote themselves and try to bring that promote themselves and try to bring that promote themselves and try to bring that over to the bluegrass scene. There is over to the bluegrass scene. There is over to the bluegrass scene. There is like a community of people who are Billy like a community of people who are Billy like a community of people who are Billy Strings fans. I know that outside some Strings fans. I know that outside some Strings fans. I know that outside some of the shows there's like a what do they of the shows there's like a what do they of the shows there's like a what do they call it like a shakedown street kind of call it like a shakedown street kind of call it like a shakedown street kind of situation where people are selling you situation where people are selling you situation where people are selling you know I don't know what they grilled know I don't know what they grilled know I don't know what they grilled cheese sandwiches or whatever selling cheese sandwiches or whatever selling cheese sandwiches or whatever selling weed and stuff like that. What do you weed and stuff like that. What do you weed and stuff like that. What do you think that community is looking for when think that community is looking for when think that community is looking for when they come to a Billy Strings show? they come to a Billy Strings show? they come to a Billy Strings show? >> I think that's a big part of the >> I think that's a big part of the >> I think that's a big part of the experience. It's not just the music. experience. It's not just the music. experience. It's not just the music. It's it's the camaraderie between all It's it's the camaraderie between all It's it's the camaraderie between all the friends that show up and you know we the friends that show up and you know we the friends that show up and you know we never play the same song you know the never play the same song you know the never play the same song you know the same way once all these parts are not same way once all these parts are not same way once all these parts are not worked out exactly worked out exactly worked out exactly a lot of it is very improvisational.

a lot of it is very improvisational. a lot of it is very improvisational. So we have the way the song goes and we So we have the way the song goes and we So we have the way the song goes and we we get that but in the middle every solo we get that but in the middle every solo we get that but in the middle every solo is different every time and sometimes we is different every time and sometimes we is different every time and sometimes we get into parts of the show where it's a get into parts of the show where it's a get into parts of the show where it's a very long improvised piece and very long improvised piece and very long improvised piece and that's where the audience and the band that's where the audience and the band that's where the audience and the band kind of come together to make this one kind of come together to make this one kind of come together to make this one big reciprocal thing. I've always kind big reciprocal thing. I've always kind big reciprocal thing. I've always kind of felt like the audience is in charge of felt like the audience is in charge of felt like the audience is in charge of the show. The more energy they give of the show. The more energy they give of the show. The more energy they give us, the more we can give back and they us, the more we can give back and they us, the more we can give back and they start start start kind of being able to press on the gas kind of being able to press on the gas kind of being able to press on the gas or the brakes or steer us in different or the brakes or steer us in different or the brakes or steer us in different directions because we're just kind of directions because we're just kind of directions because we're just kind of vibing off what they give us. vibing off what they give us. vibing off what they give us. I I was reading an article about you and I I was reading an article about you and I I was reading an article about you and it I think it talked about how before it I think it talked about how before it I think it talked about how before shows you used to get real uh anxious shows you used to get real uh anxious shows you used to get real uh anxious and have real stomach pain. Is that and have real stomach pain. Is that and have real stomach pain. Is that still an issue for you? I definitely get still an issue for you? I definitely get still an issue for you? I definitely get nervous before a show. Sometimes moments nervous before a show. Sometimes moments nervous before a show. Sometimes moments before I'm walking on stage, I feel like before I'm walking on stage, I feel like before I'm walking on stage, I feel like I might pass out or I feel really laded I might pass out or I feel really laded I might pass out or I feel really laded and weak and weak and weak and uh I just got to kind of stumble up and uh I just got to kind of stumble up and uh I just got to kind of stumble up on stage and get into the first song or on stage and get into the first song or on stage and get into the first song or two and halfway through the show I'm two and halfway through the show I'm two and halfway through the show I'm like I I'm the complete opposite. I have like I I'm the complete opposite. I have like I I'm the complete opposite. I have all this energy. I feel great. I feel all this energy. I feel great. I feel all this energy. I feel great. I feel super confident, almost cocky even, you super confident, almost cocky even, you super confident, almost cocky even, you know, to the point where I just I start know, to the point where I just I start know, to the point where I just I start having a lot of fun. And it's just the having a lot of fun. And it's just the having a lot of fun. And it's just the people's smiles that I think bring it people's smiles that I think bring it people's smiles that I think bring it out of me. And there is that sort of out of me. And there is that sort of out of me. And there is that sort of expectation from the crowd to

expectation from the crowd to expectation from the crowd to to do something amazing and also that to do something amazing and also that to do something amazing and also that expectation from myself to always do expectation from myself to always do expectation from myself to always do better than I did the night before better than I did the night before better than I did the night before because this is because this is because this is my livelihood and this is my my life and my livelihood and this is my my life and my livelihood and this is my my life and at [snorts] a certain point deep in the at [snorts] a certain point deep in the at [snorts] a certain point deep in the back of my mind I'm scared that this is back of my mind I'm scared that this is back of my mind I'm scared that this is all going to go away at some point and all going to go away at some point and all going to go away at some point and maybe I'll have to go back to the way maybe I'll have to go back to the way maybe I'll have to go back to the way life was when it was really hard and life was when it was really hard and life was when it was really hard and surrounded by, you know, there's this surrounded by, you know, there's this surrounded by, you know, there's this little devil on my shoulder that little devil on my shoulder that little devil on my shoulder that tells me I don't deserve any of this and tells me I don't deserve any of this and tells me I don't deserve any of this and uh thinks that I should be in some uh thinks that I should be in some uh thinks that I should be in some little trailer somewhere addicted to little trailer somewhere addicted to little trailer somewhere addicted to drugs or something and not a penny to my drugs or something and not a penny to my drugs or something and not a penny to my name. So it does feel like I'm kind of name. So it does feel like I'm kind of name. So it does feel like I'm kind of playing for my survival a lot or each playing for my survival a lot or each playing for my survival a lot or each time I walk on stage I'm playing for so time I walk on stage I'm playing for so time I walk on stage I'm playing for so that I don't have to go back there. that I don't have to go back there. that I don't have to go back there. I want to play a good show so that I want to play a good show so that I want to play a good show so that people will come next time.

people will come next time. people will come next time. There's a lot writing on it, you know. There's a lot writing on it, you know. There's a lot writing on it, you know. >> Does having a a kid has that changed >> Does having a a kid has that changed >> Does having a a kid has that changed sort of the pressure you put on yourself sort of the pressure you put on yourself sort of the pressure you put on yourself as far as music? as far as music? as far as music? >> Yeah. I used to just put too much >> Yeah. I used to just put too much >> Yeah. I used to just put too much pressure on myself and pressure on myself and pressure on myself and to the point where I would strangle the to the point where I would strangle the to the point where I would strangle the life out of the music. I would life out of the music. I would life out of the music. I would it was the most important thing to me, it was the most important thing to me, it was the most important thing to me, you know, my music. you know, my music. you know, my music. It's everything from a career to It's everything from a career to It's everything from a career to a reason not to to just let my life go off the rails and to just let my life go off the rails and listen to that little devil on my listen to that little devil on my listen to that little devil on my shoulder. shoulder. shoulder. But when my son was born, I kind of But when my son was born, I kind of But when my son was born, I kind of I had a big change in perspective. And I had a big change in perspective. And I had a big change in perspective. And now I'm kind of just free to go sing and now I'm kind of just free to go sing and now I'm kind of just free to go sing and play. If my family's okay, play. If my family's okay, play. If my family's okay, then I'm free to go play and sing. And then I'm free to go play and sing. And then I'm free to go play and sing. And and I'm singing from a place of joy in and I'm singing from a place of joy in and I'm singing from a place of joy in my belly now. And I have this little my belly now. And I have this little my belly now. And I have this little cosmic listener cosmic listener cosmic listener that I can sing to and sing for no that I can sing to and sing for no that I can sing to and sing for no matter what. And now I have an actual matter what. And now I have an actual matter what. And now I have an actual reason reason reason to go sing and play. When I leave my to go sing and play. When I leave my to go sing and play. When I leave my house to go on tour, I'm on a mission to house to go on tour, I'm on a mission to house to go on tour, I'm on a mission to provide for my family. I'm not just out provide for my family. I'm not just out provide for my family. I'm not just out there to stoke my ego.

there to stoke my ego. there to stoke my ego. >> What was your what is or was your >> What was your what is or was your >> What was your what is or was your parents relationship with your fans and parents relationship with your fans and parents relationship with your fans and with the scene around your music? with the scene around your music? with the scene around your music? Um yeah, the last few years of my mom's Um yeah, the last few years of my mom's Um yeah, the last few years of my mom's life, she got really involved uh with my life, she got really involved uh with my life, she got really involved uh with my fans and the the that whole lot scene. I fans and the the that whole lot scene. I fans and the the that whole lot scene. I mean, she loved it. She that's kind of mean, she loved it. She that's kind of mean, she loved it. She that's kind of what she grew up with, going to concerts what she grew up with, going to concerts what she grew up with, going to concerts and hanging out and stuff. So So she and hanging out and stuff. So So she and hanging out and stuff. So So she she would go out there and mingle with she would go out there and mingle with she would go out there and mingle with those folks all the time. She had many those folks all the time. She had many those folks all the time. She had many dear friends that she met at the shows. dear friends that she met at the shows. dear friends that she met at the shows. Um, Um, Um, and she would she would do things like and she would she would do things like and she would she would do things like take videos of them take videos of them take videos of them um, um, um, explaining what my music meant to them explaining what my music meant to them explaining what my music meant to them and she would she would send them to me and she would she would send them to me and she would she would send them to me and stuff. She would always tell me and stuff. She would always tell me and stuff. She would always tell me like, "You have no idea how many people like, "You have no idea how many people like, "You have no idea how many people you've touched and how how much your you've touched and how how much your you've touched and how how much your music means to these people." And I'm music means to these people." And I'm music means to these people." And I'm kind of like, you know, kind of like, you know, kind of like, you know, just blown away by that, you know? I just blown away by that, you know? I just blown away by that, you know? I wonder if that was maybe a tough wonder if that was maybe a tough wonder if that was maybe a tough situation for her to be in also because situation for her to be in also because situation for her to be in also because of the because of the partying.

of the because of the partying. of the because of the partying. >> Yeah, I wondered about that. But at a >> Yeah, I wondered about that. But at a >> Yeah, I wondered about that. But at a certain point, you know, people are certain point, you know, people are certain point, you know, people are going to do what they're going to do. going to do what they're going to do. going to do what they're going to do. And that's kind of one thing I learned And that's kind of one thing I learned And that's kind of one thing I learned from this whole thing is you can't can't from this whole thing is you can't can't from this whole thing is you can't can't change somebody's life. you know, you change somebody's life. you know, you change somebody's life. you know, you can't uh people are going to do whatever can't uh people are going to do whatever can't uh people are going to do whatever they're going to do and you got to just they're going to do and you got to just they're going to do and you got to just love them for who they are and um love them for who they are and um love them for who they are and um accept whatever happens, you know. accept whatever happens, you know. accept whatever happens, you know. >> Do you think that's true? People are >> Do you think that's true? People are >> Do you think that's true? People are going to do what whatever they're going going to do what whatever they're going going to do what whatever they're going to do. to do. to do. >> I do. >> I do. >> I do. >> You can't change. >> You can't change. >> You can't change. >> I mean, you can change for sure, but you >> I mean, you can change for sure, but you >> I mean, you can change for sure, but you got to want to be the one to do it. I'm got to want to be the one to do it. I'm got to want to be the one to do it. I'm just saying I can't impose my will on just saying I can't impose my will on just saying I can't impose my will on somebody else to expect them to change. somebody else to expect them to change. somebody else to expect them to change. I don't think that's a possibility. I've I don't think that's a possibility. I've I don't think that's a possibility. I've always just wanted my mom and dad to always just wanted my mom and dad to always just wanted my mom and dad to have a good life and for my mom to have have a good life and for my mom to have have a good life and for my mom to have a garden and for them, you know, they're a garden and for them, you know, they're a garden and for them, you know, they're getting older. Uh my mom was 64. getting older. Uh my mom was 64. getting older. Uh my mom was 64. I thought, you know, in my mind, it's I thought, you know, in my mind, it's I thought, you know, in my mind, it's like I just want them to grow old and like I just want them to grow old and like I just want them to grow old and and and and start being these boring old and and and start being these boring old and and and start being these boring old people that, you know, go up north every people that, you know, go up north every people that, you know, go up north every once in a while and sit at home and once in a while and sit at home and once in a while and sit at home and watch the Andy Griffith Show or watch the Andy Griffith Show or watch the Andy Griffith Show or whatever. But that's what was in my whatever. But that's what was in my whatever. But that's what was in my mind, not theirs. You know, they my mom mind, not theirs. You know, they my mom mind, not theirs. You know, they my mom was living her best life. You know, she was living her best life. You know, she was living her best life. You know, she was she was out there having a good time was she was out there having a good time was she was out there having a good time right up until the end, which again is right up until the end, which again is right up until the end, which again is still inspiring to me in a way, you still inspiring to me in a way, you still inspiring to me in a way, you know, where she just

know, where she just know, where she just she didn't want to grow old. She'd she didn't want to grow old. She'd she didn't want to grow old. She'd rather kind of run and gun right until rather kind of run and gun right until rather kind of run and gun right until the end. You know, the end. You know, the end. You know, >> you mentioned a couple times, you know, >> you mentioned a couple times, you know, >> you mentioned a couple times, you know, this idea of not wanting to go back to this idea of not wanting to go back to this idea of not wanting to go back to the life you had, but if if the the the life you had, but if if the the the life you had, but if if the the music had not taken off, what would a music had not taken off, what would a music had not taken off, what would a good life have been for you? good life have been for you? good life have been for you? >> Uh just, >> Uh just, >> Uh just, you know, working a job that I didn't you know, working a job that I didn't you know, working a job that I didn't absolutely hate. absolutely hate. absolutely hate. Uh, just making enough to have some food Uh, just making enough to have some food Uh, just making enough to have some food in the cupboards and a roof over my head in the cupboards and a roof over my head in the cupboards and a roof over my head and not being a drug addict, I think, and not being a drug addict, I think, and not being a drug addict, I think, would be good enough. would be good enough. would be good enough. >> But it turned out pretty well. >> But it turned out pretty well. >> But it turned out pretty well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I got a lot of >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I got a lot of >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I got a lot of stuff out of my system early on. And so stuff out of my system early on. And so stuff out of my system early on. And so now I'm now I'm now I'm I'm 10 years sober from alcohol. I'm 10 years sober from alcohol. I'm 10 years sober from alcohol. And uh I'm definitely drawing a line in And uh I'm definitely drawing a line in And uh I'm definitely drawing a line in the sand here.

the sand here. the sand here. All this All this All this generational trauma has to stop with me generational trauma has to stop with me generational trauma has to stop with me and I'm going to give my son a life very and I'm going to give my son a life very and I'm going to give my son a life very different from mine. I've even since my different from mine. I've even since my different from mine. I've even since my son was born, I kind of stopped smoking son was born, I kind of stopped smoking son was born, I kind of stopped smoking weed, too. So, I've been totally sober weed, too. So, I've been totally sober weed, too. So, I've been totally sober for like almost a year now, except for for like almost a year now, except for for like almost a year now, except for now. I like coffee. I never was a coffee now. I like coffee. I never was a coffee now. I like coffee. I never was a coffee drinker before. [laughter] drinker before. [laughter] drinker before. [laughter] >> As far as as far as vices go, I think I >> As far as as far as vices go, I think I >> As far as as far as vices go, I think I think you're allowed that one. think you're allowed that one. think you're allowed that one. >> Yeah. I wake up and my wife always makes >> Yeah. I wake up and my wife always makes >> Yeah. I wake up and my wife always makes a pot of coffee and man, I'm to the a pot of coffee and man, I'm to the a pot of coffee and man, I'm to the point now where I'm I go to bed excited point now where I'm I go to bed excited point now where I'm I go to bed excited about that cup of coffee in the morning. about that cup of coffee in the morning. about that cup of coffee in the morning. It's [laughter] It's [laughter] It's [laughter] >> It's good to have something to live for. >> It's good to have something to live for. >> It's good to have something to live for. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I understand >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I understand >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I understand why people are into that stuff now. why people are into that stuff now. why people are into that stuff now. >> But but Billy, I I really appreciate you >> But but Billy, I I really appreciate you >> But but Billy, I I really appreciate you speaking with me today and and talking speaking with me today and and talking speaking with me today and and talking with me, you know, about the tougher with me, you know, about the tougher with me, you know, about the tougher stuff. And, you know, I think we're stuff. And, you know, I think we're stuff. And, you know, I think we're going to talk again maybe in a week, going to talk again maybe in a week, going to talk again maybe in a week, week and a half, something like that.

week and a half, something like that. week and a half, something like that. But you're going to play a couple of But you're going to play a couple of But you're going to play a couple of tunes for us. I think you'll have your tunes for us. I think you'll have your tunes for us. I think you'll have your guitar with you. guitar with you. guitar with you. >> Awesome. Hey, thank you. I'll see you >> Awesome. Hey, thank you. I'll see you >> Awesome. Hey, thank you. I'll see you soon. soon. soon. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest twice. So, about a week later, I [music] twice. So, about a week later, I [music] twice. So, about a week later, I [music] spoke to Billy Strings again and this spoke to Billy Strings again and this spoke to Billy Strings again and this time he brought his guitar. [music] [music] >> Hi, Billy. How are you? >> Hi, Billy. How are you? >> Hi, Billy. How are you? >> Good. How's it going? >> Good. How's it going? >> Good. How's it going? >> Um, Billy, thank you for taking the time >> Um, Billy, thank you for taking the time >> Um, Billy, thank you for taking the time to speak with me again today. to speak with me again today. to speak with me again today. >> No problem. >> No problem. >> No problem. >> I thought, you know, maybe just here at >> I thought, you know, maybe just here at >> I thought, you know, maybe just here at the top, you could play a a traditional the top, you could play a a traditional the top, you could play a a traditional tune for us. I was thinking maybe tune for us. I was thinking maybe tune for us. I was thinking maybe something like The Train That Carried My something like The Train That Carried My something like The Train That Carried My Girl from Town. Girl from Town. Girl from Town. >> Uh, sure. I could give it a try. >> Where was you [singing] when the train >> Where was you [singing] when the train [music] left town? Standing on the [music] left town? Standing on the [music] left town? Standing on the corner with my head hanging down. Wish corner with my head hanging down. Wish corner with my head hanging down. Wish to [music] the Lord that the train would to [music] the Lord that the train would to [music] the Lord that the train would wreck. Kill the engineer and break the wreck. Kill the engineer and break the wreck. Kill the engineer and break the fireman's [singing and music] neck. Hey,

fireman's [singing and music] neck. Hey, fireman's [singing and music] neck. Hey, the train that carried the girl from the train that carried the girl from the train that carried the girl from town. Hey, [singing and music] where was you when the train left town? where was you when the train left town? Standing on the corner with my head Standing on the corner with my head Standing on the corner with my head hanging [music] down. If I had my gun hanging [music] down. If I had my gun hanging [music] down. If I had my gun and let the hammer down, I'd shoot the and let the hammer down, I'd shoot the and let the hammer down, I'd shoot the rounder [singing] took my girl from rounder [singing] took my girl from rounder [singing] took my girl from town. [music] Hey, the train that town. [music] Hey, the train that town. [music] Hey, the train that carried my girl from town. [singing] carried my girl from town. [singing] carried my girl from town. [singing] Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. [music] >> Well, it's ashes to ashes [singing] and >> Well, it's ashes to ashes [singing] and dust to dust. [music] Can you show me dust to dust. [music] Can you show me dust to dust. [music] Can you show me the woman that a man can trust? There the woman that a man can trust? There the woman that a man can trust? There goes [singing and music] my girl. goes [singing and music] my girl. goes [singing and music] my girl. Someone ring her back. She stuck her Someone ring her back. She stuck her Someone ring her back. She stuck her hand in my money sack. Hey, the train hand in my money sack. Hey, the train hand in my money sack. Hey, the train that carried my girlfriend. [music] Hey, that carried my girlfriend. [music] Hey, that carried my girlfriend. [music] Hey, [singing] hey, hey.

Well, the ration's on the table or the Well, the ration's on the table or the coffeey's getting [music and singing] coffeey's getting [music and singing] coffeey's getting [music and singing] cold. Some dirty honey took my jelly cold. Some dirty honey took my jelly cold. Some dirty honey took my jelly roll. roll. roll. Hello, [singing] Santa. [music] Give me Hello, [singing] Santa. [music] Give me Hello, [singing] Santa. [music] Give me 609. 609. 609. I want to talk to that little girl of I want to talk to that little girl of I want to talk to that little girl of mine. Hey, the train that carried my mine. Hey, the train that carried my mine. Hey, the train that carried my girl from [music and singing] town. Hey, girl from [music and singing] town. Hey, girl from [music and singing] town. Hey, hey, hey, hey. >> Hey, sounds good. Thank you very much. >> Hey, sounds good. Thank you very much. That was great. That was great. That was great. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I haven't had coffee yet. [laughter] I haven't had coffee yet. [laughter] I haven't had coffee yet. [laughter] >> I couldn't tell. When you were starting >> I couldn't tell. When you were starting >> I couldn't tell. When you were starting out playing, um, what were some of the out playing, um, what were some of the out playing, um, what were some of the elements of bluegrass playing in elements of bluegrass playing in elements of bluegrass playing in particular that you found trickiest? I particular that you found trickiest? I particular that you found trickiest? I mean, because it there's there's the mean, because it there's there's the mean, because it there's there's the speed, there's this precision, the speed, there's this precision, the speed, there's this precision, the articulation. It's not the easiest style articulation. It's not the easiest style articulation. It's not the easiest style of music to play well. What was the of music to play well. What was the of music to play well. What was the stuff that you kind of had to really stuff that you kind of had to really stuff that you kind of had to really practice at the most?

practice at the most? practice at the most? Well, when I first started playing, you Well, when I first started playing, you Well, when I first started playing, you know, I just played uh rhythm know, I just played uh rhythm know, I just played uh rhythm and my dad played all the lead. So, I and my dad played all the lead. So, I and my dad played all the lead. So, I would play, you know, while my dad was going you know, while my dad was going [music] [music] [music] stuff like that. And I was just a rhythm stuff like that. And I was just a rhythm stuff like that. And I was just a rhythm player for a long time. And I think that player for a long time. And I think that player for a long time. And I think that it sort of gave me a um it sort of gave me a um it sort of gave me a um quite a bit of time to just sit and quite a bit of time to just sit and quite a bit of time to just sit and listen while I was playing the chords. I listen while I was playing the chords. I listen while I was playing the chords. I could listen to what the melodies were could listen to what the melodies were could listen to what the melodies were were doing and I could have those kind were doing and I could have those kind were doing and I could have those kind of seeped into my brain, you know. of seeped into my brain, you know. of seeped into my brain, you know. And it wasn't until a little bit later And it wasn't until a little bit later And it wasn't until a little bit later on that I kind of started to try to take on that I kind of started to try to take on that I kind of started to try to take some breaks on some stuff and try to some breaks on some stuff and try to some breaks on some stuff and try to learn how to play uh pick the tunes and learn how to play uh pick the tunes and learn how to play uh pick the tunes and everything. I mean, I remember when I everything. I mean, I remember when I everything. I mean, I remember when I was a little kid was a little kid was a little kid When I first started playing, I used to When I first started playing, I used to When I first started playing, I used to just play on two strings a lot [music] [music] [music] and I would just notice these different and I would just notice these different and I would just notice these different That's all you need right there. when I That's all you need right there. when I That's all you need right there. when I was a I mean I must have been like I was a I mean I must have been like I was a I mean I must have been like I said like five years old just learning said like five years old just learning said like five years old just learning how to play guitar and I would just sit how to play guitar and I would just sit how to play guitar and I would just sit there and do that

[music] [music] sometimes I get into a pattern and I just man it sounded so magical to and I just man it sounded so magical to me. It sounded huge and and me. It sounded huge and and me. It sounded huge and and like a symphony or something, you know, like a symphony or something, you know, like a symphony or something, you know, in my head in my head in my head and it just and it just and it just it's just two strings, you know, but I it's just two strings, you know, but I it's just two strings, you know, but I was just hearing these different was just hearing these different was just hearing these different intervals of [music] intervals of [music] intervals of [music] all you do is change one note all you do is change one note all you do is change one note and it gives it such a different and it gives it such a different and it gives it such a different emotion. [music] >> [music and singing] >> [music and singing] >> Sounds kind of hopeful or something. Sounds kind of like I don't know. Sounds kind of like I don't know. I don't know if this is going good I don't know if this is going good I don't know if this is going good now. It [music] sounds kind of like now. It [music] sounds kind of like now. It [music] sounds kind of like resolved. It's like well whatever.

resolved. It's like well whatever. resolved. It's like well whatever. You know, You know, You know, >> when we were talking last time, you >> when we were talking last time, you >> when we were talking last time, you mentioned that one of the first uh mentioned that one of the first uh mentioned that one of the first uh instances where you really felt proud instances where you really felt proud instances where you really felt proud about your guitar playing was when you about your guitar playing was when you about your guitar playing was when you were playing at Bowmont Rag with your were playing at Bowmont Rag with your were playing at Bowmont Rag with your dad and he was sort of like queuing you dad and he was sort of like queuing you dad and he was sort of like queuing you with the melodies. I I wondered would it with the melodies. I I wondered would it with the melodies. I I wondered would it be possible to sort of demonstrate what be possible to sort of demonstrate what be possible to sort of demonstrate what you were talking about there like h how you were talking about there like h how you were talking about there like h how he was using the melodies to help you he was using the melodies to help you he was using the melodies to help you understand where to come in? understand where to come in? understand where to come in? >> Yeah. Um, [music] >> Yeah. Um, [music] >> Yeah. Um, [music] so so so Bulmont rag Bulmont rag Bulmont rag when I was playing it as a kid. See, I when I was playing it as a kid. See, I when I was playing it as a kid. See, I got this little thing here that's called got this little thing here that's called got this little thing here that's called a capo. It's kind of like a cheater. a capo. It's kind of like a cheater. a capo. It's kind of like a cheater. >> It changes the keys without having to >> It changes the keys without having to >> It changes the keys without having to change the chord shapes. Right. change the chord shapes. Right. change the chord shapes. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. Yeah. So, I didn't use uh one on this Yeah. So, I didn't use uh one on this Yeah. So, I didn't use uh one on this tune. I played open like this and I tune. I played open like this and I tune. I played open like this and I would play So that was my part. My dad would take So that was my part. My dad would take his capo and play up here out of a C his capo and play up here out of a C his capo and play up here out of a C position, [music] but still in D. And so position, [music] but still in D. And so position, [music] but still in D. And so what he would play is >> and so on. Um, so when I was first

>> and so on. Um, so when I was first learning that tune, learning that tune, learning that tune, you know, I was trying to count. Okay. 1 you know, I was trying to count. Okay. 1 you know, I was trying to count. Okay. 1 2 [music] 3 4 1 [singing] 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 2 [music] 3 4 1 [singing] 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 2 [music] 3 4 1 [singing] 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 D 2 3 4 A 2 3 4 D and then G. [music] D 2 3 4 A 2 3 4 D and then G. [music] D 2 3 4 A 2 3 4 D and then G. [music] And I I would get messed up during that And I I would get messed up during that And I I would get messed up during that part because I've never been good at part because I've never been good at part because I've never been good at counting anyways or math or numbers or counting anyways or math or numbers or counting anyways or math or numbers or anything like that. anything like that. anything like that. Um, Um, Um, so we were playing the tune and I just so we were playing the tune and I just so we were playing the tune and I just asked my dad to stop. I said, "Why don't asked my dad to stop. I said, "Why don't asked my dad to stop. I said, "Why don't right in the middle of the song I just right in the middle of the song I just right in the middle of the song I just stopped and I said,"Listen, you just stopped and I said,"Listen, you just stopped and I said,"Listen, you just play it and and let me listen to it." play it and and let me listen to it." play it and and let me listen to it." And so he played it and I started hearing what he was doing. and I started hearing what he was doing. I wasn't counting. I was listening, you I wasn't counting. I was listening, you I wasn't counting. I was listening, you know, know, know, d d d [music] [music] [music] and then he goes And then And then [music] [music] [music] so I know when he goes [music] [music] that's my time to go to the G chord. And

that's my time to go to the G chord. And that's my time to go to the G chord. And I started just hearing these little I started just hearing these little I started just hearing these little things, you know, uh I didn't know it, things, you know, uh I didn't know it, things, you know, uh I didn't know it, but [music] but [music] but [music] he would play that chord with with that he would play that chord with with that he would play that chord with with that note in it, [music] and my ear just note in it, [music] and my ear just note in it, [music] and my ear just would automatically lead me to would automatically lead me to would automatically lead me to >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I started using the music as as >> So, I started using the music as as >> So, I started using the music as as a road map instead of trying to count. a road map instead of trying to count. a road map instead of trying to count. >> And I know you still practice and take >> And I know you still practice and take >> And I know you still practice and take lessons occasionally. Like, what are lessons occasionally. Like, what are lessons occasionally. Like, what are things that you're trying to get to in things that you're trying to get to in things that you're trying to get to in [music] your playing now that you're [music] your playing now that you're [music] your playing now that you're consciously working on? consciously working on? consciously working on? [music] [music] [music] >> Oh, I don't know. I'm just I feel like I >> Oh, I don't know. I'm just I feel like I >> Oh, I don't know. I'm just I feel like I just play so many gigs and stuff. I just just play so many gigs and stuff. I just just play so many gigs and stuff. I just hear myself play so much. I get sick of hear myself play so much. I get sick of hear myself play so much. I get sick of it. You know, bluegrass is a lot of [music] bluegrass is a lot of [music] like using this much of the fretboard. like using this much of the fretboard. like using this much of the fretboard. >> Yeah. I mean, I'll occasionally [music] I'll occasionally slide up here and get I'll occasionally slide up here and get a little stuff, but there's no money a little stuff, but there's no money a little stuff, but there's no money past the fifth fifth fret.

past the fifth fifth fret. past the fifth fifth fret. And uh And uh And uh I've just kind of started to try to I've just kind of started to try to I've just kind of started to try to learn some different styles of music learn some different styles of music learn some different styles of music that I never really got into, you know, that I never really got into, you know, that I never really got into, you know, uh studying with my guy Rob that I've uh studying with my guy Rob that I've uh studying with my guy Rob that I've been kind of taking lessons with for the been kind of taking lessons with for the been kind of taking lessons with for the last couple years. last couple years. last couple years. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> I mean, he's got me playing like >> you know, >> you know, >> like back and uh just trying to expand >> like back and uh just trying to expand >> like back and uh just trying to expand my horizons, I guess.

>> Billy, can you maybe just to close >> Billy, can you maybe just to close things out, maybe you can play us out things out, maybe you can play us out things out, maybe you can play us out with another traditional song? like with another traditional song? like with another traditional song? like something like Little White Church. Uh, something like Little White Church. Uh, something like Little White Church. Uh, I could probably try that one. There's [music and singing] a little There's [music and singing] a little white church in the valley white church in the valley white church in the valley that stands [music] in [singing] my that stands [music] in [singing] my that stands [music] in [singing] my memories each day. memories each day. memories each day. And it seems I can hear the bells And it seems I can hear the bells And it seems I can hear the bells ringing. [music] ringing. [music] ringing. [music] Though I am [singing] many miles away. Though I am [singing] many miles away. Though I am [singing] many miles away. And many times [music] on Sunday morning And many times [music] on Sunday morning And many times [music] on Sunday morning the whole countryside [singing] would the whole countryside [singing] would the whole countryside [singing] would gather there. [music] They would all gather there. [music] They would all gather there. [music] They would all kneel down by [singing] the altar as kneel down by [singing] the altar as kneel down by [singing] the altar as they lifted up their voice in prayer. they lifted up their voice in prayer. they lifted up their voice in prayer. [music] [music] [music] Oh the church [singing] in the valley.

Oh the church [singing] in the valley. Oh the church [singing] in the valley. Little white church is the place I love Little white church is the place I love Little white church is the place I love so well. [music] I'm sad [singing] and so well. [music] I'm sad [singing] and so well. [music] I'm sad [singing] and lonely. Yes, I'm sad and lonely for the lonely. Yes, I'm sad and lonely for the lonely. Yes, I'm sad and lonely for the little white [music] church in the dead. >> They would [singing] sing the old song >> They would [singing] sing the old song rock of agees. [music] rock of agees. [music] rock of agees. [music] Oh Christ, let me hide myself [singing] Oh Christ, let me hide myself [singing] Oh Christ, let me hide myself [singing] in thee. And I know their troubles are in thee. And I know their troubles are in thee. And I know their troubles are flying flying flying over [music] over [music] over [music] dark and stormy sea.

dark and stormy sea. dark and stormy sea. Their trles [music and singing] Their trles [music and singing] Their trles [music and singing] have ended. have ended. have ended. Happy together we shall [singing] be. Happy together we shall [singing] be. Happy together we shall [singing] be. [music] They are waiting, watching up [music] They are waiting, watching up [music] They are waiting, watching up yonder for the coming home yonder for the coming home yonder for the coming home [music and singing] of you and me. [music and singing] of you and me. [music and singing] of you and me. Oh, the church in the valley that a Oh, the church in the valley that a Oh, the church in the valley that a little white [singing] church [music] is little white [singing] church [music] is little white [singing] church [music] is the place I love so well. the place I love so well. the place I love so well. I'm sad and lonely. Yes, I'm sad I'm sad and lonely. Yes, I'm sad I'm sad and lonely. Yes, I'm sad [singing] and lonely for [music] the [singing] and lonely for [music] the [singing] and lonely for [music] the little white church in the Dell. little white church in the Dell. little white church in the Dell. I'm sad and lonely. Yes, [music] I'm sad I'm sad and lonely. Yes, [music] I'm sad I'm sad and lonely. Yes, [music] I'm sad and [singing] lonely for the little and [singing] lonely for the little and [singing] lonely for the little white church in the Dell. All right. Well, I really uh want to All right. Well, I really uh want to thank you for bringing your guitar along thank you for bringing your guitar along thank you for bringing your guitar along today and playing for us. I appreciate today and playing for us. I appreciate today and playing for us. I appreciate it. it. it. >> Yeah, no problem. I usually don't make >> Yeah, no problem. I usually don't make >> Yeah, no problem. I usually don't make any good music until after 3:00 p.m. any good music until after 3:00 p.m. any good music until after 3:00 p.m. >> Thank you again for taking all the time. >> Thank you again for taking all the time. >> Thank you again for taking all the time. >> No problem. >> No problem. >> No problem. >> And good and good [music] luck with >> And good and good [music] luck with >> And good and good [music] luck with everything. everything. everything. >> Thank you. I appreciate it.

>> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro [music] >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro [music] >> and I'm David Maresy >> and I'm David Maresy >> and I'm David Maresy >> and we're the hosts of the interview, an >> and we're the hosts of the interview, an >> and we're the hosts of the interview, an audio and video podcast from the New audio and video podcast from the New audio and video podcast from the New York Times. Every week we interview York Times. Every week we interview York Times. Every week we interview fascinating and [music] influential fascinating and [music] influential fascinating and [music] influential people from all walks of life. people from all walks of life. people from all walks of life. >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so >> Subscribe to our YouTube channel so you'll never miss an episode.