Mick Jagger Can’t Name One Good Thing About Getting Older | The Interview

What on earth are we going to talk about What on earth are we going to talk about for 40 minutes? for 40 minutes? for 40 minutes? >> I have no idea. Nothing. The weather. >> I have no idea. Nothing. The weather. >> I have no idea. Nothing. The weather. We're starved with the weather. >> I'm David Maresy and today I'm in a >> I'm David Maresy and today I'm in a hotel in Manhattan to interview Mick hotel in Manhattan to interview Mick hotel in Manhattan to interview Mick Jagger. Jagger. Jagger. MC Jagger truly needs no introduction. MC Jagger truly needs no introduction. MC Jagger truly needs no introduction. He's the legendary frontman of the He's the legendary frontman of the He's the legendary frontman of the Rolling Stones who are releasing a new Rolling Stones who are releasing a new Rolling Stones who are releasing a new album called Foreign Tongues. album called Foreign Tongues. album called Foreign Tongues. I've been a fan of the Stones since 1994 I've been a fan of the Stones since 1994 I've been a fan of the Stones since 1994 when I saw them on their Voodoo Lounge when I saw them on their Voodoo Lounge when I saw them on their Voodoo Lounge tour. It was my first ever rock concert tour. It was my first ever rock concert tour. It was my first ever rock concert and it left a huge impression. Since and it left a huge impression. Since and it left a huge impression. Since then, I've listened to just about every then, I've listened to just about every then, I've listened to just about every song the band has released. From song the band has released. From song the band has released. From undeniable classics like My Favorite, undeniable classics like My Favorite, undeniable classics like My Favorite, You Can't Always Get What You Want You Can't Always Get What You Want You Can't Always Get What You Want >> to Obscure Like Sway? >> And I've always wondered, what's MC >> And I've always wondered, what's MC Jagger really like? Here's my Jagger really like? Here's my Jagger really like? Here's my conversation with Mick Jagger. conversation with Mick Jagger. conversation with Mick Jagger. >> Mick. >> Mick. >> Mick. >> Hi, David. >> Hi, David. >> Hi, David. >> Thank you for taking the time to speak >> Thank you for taking the time to speak >> Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

with me today. with me today. >> That's right. Fun. >> That's right. Fun. >> That's right. Fun. >> Uh, I have a bunch of questions about >> Uh, I have a bunch of questions about >> Uh, I have a bunch of questions about the new album. Okay. the new album. Okay. the new album. Okay. >> Uh, but I'd like to start with a >> Uh, but I'd like to start with a >> Uh, but I'd like to start with a question that comes from a place of pure question that comes from a place of pure question that comes from a place of pure personal curiosity. Okay. personal curiosity. Okay. personal curiosity. Okay. >> So, one of my all-time favorite of your >> So, one of my all-time favorite of your >> So, one of my all-time favorite of your songs is Sway. songs is Sway. songs is Sway. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> From Sticky Fingers. And I always >> From Sticky Fingers. And I always >> From Sticky Fingers. And I always wondered about the first line of that wondered about the first line of that wondered about the first line of that song. Okay. with the lyrics which are song. Okay. with the lyrics which are song. Okay. with the lyrics which are did you ever wake up to find a day wake did you ever wake up to find a day wake did you ever wake up to find a day wake up to find up to find up to find >> a day that broke up your mind >> a day that broke up your mind >> a day that broke up your mind >> broke up your mind >> broke up your mind >> broke up your mind >> destroyed your notion of circular time >> destroyed your notion of circular time >> destroyed your notion of circular time >> I have not >> I have not >> I have not have you have you have you >> no there's a question >> no there's a question >> no there's a question >> do you remember where that line came >> do you remember where that line came >> do you remember where that line came from from from >> no I just made it up at this moment I >> no I just made it up at this moment I >> no I just made it up at this moment I was we were waiting for Keith to turn up was we were waiting for Keith to turn up was we were waiting for Keith to turn up to the session he was late to the session he was late to the session he was late >> and then Mick Taylor and I were there >> and then Mick Taylor and I were there >> and then Mick Taylor and I were there and Charlie and Bill and we I said, "Oh, and Charlie and Bill and we I said, "Oh, and Charlie and Bill and we I said, "Oh, let me try this." And I was just making let me try this." And I was just making let me try this." And I was just making up as I go along. up as I go along. up as I go along. >> So that's why it's a bit random. >> So that's why it's a bit random. >> So that's why it's a bit random. >> Yeah. But it makes sense that waiting >> Yeah. But it makes sense that waiting >> Yeah. But it makes sense that waiting for Keith Richards would destroy your for Keith Richards would destroy your for Keith Richards would destroy your notion of circular time. notion of circular time. notion of circular time. >> I thought maybe it was a more >> I thought maybe it was a more >> I thought maybe it was a more philosophical question.

philosophical question. philosophical question. >> You could you maybe I No, maybe I went >> You could you maybe I No, maybe I went >> You could you maybe I No, maybe I went back afterwards and spruced it up a bit. back afterwards and spruced it up a bit. back afterwards and spruced it up a bit. >> Well, thank you for solving that mystery >> Well, thank you for solving that mystery >> Well, thank you for solving that mystery for me. I appreciate it. So the the new for me. I appreciate it. So the the new for me. I appreciate it. So the the new album album album >> Yeah. So it's coming just maybe two and >> Yeah. So it's coming just maybe two and >> Yeah. So it's coming just maybe two and a half years after Hackne Diamonds. a half years after Hackne Diamonds. a half years after Hackne Diamonds. >> We recorded it last last year now and um >> We recorded it last last year now and um >> We recorded it last last year now and um we we did it last this time last year we we did it last this time last year we we did it last this time last year more or less. more or less. more or less. >> And but the time span between Hackne >> And but the time span between Hackne >> And but the time span between Hackne Diamonds and the previous album of Diamonds and the previous album of Diamonds and the previous album of original material 18 years. original material 18 years. original material 18 years. >> Yeah. 18 years. This is quick. >> Yeah. 18 years. This is quick. >> Yeah. 18 years. This is quick. >> Yeah. Why why did it come together so so >> Yeah. Why why did it come together so so >> Yeah. Why why did it come together so so quickly? Well, I think we we I think we quickly? Well, I think we we I think we quickly? Well, I think we we I think we realized that that we could um you know, realized that that we could um you know, realized that that we could um you know, we had a different method of making we had a different method of making we had a different method of making records really. I mean, we we've been records really. I mean, we we've been records really. I mean, we we've been just not being very lacadasical and we just not being very lacadasical and we just not being very lacadasical and we not weren't really getting down to it. not weren't really getting down to it. not weren't really getting down to it. And so when we got Andy Watt on board, And so when we got Andy Watt on board, And so when we got Andy Watt on board, you know, we we decided that I said I you know, we we decided that I said I you know, we we decided that I said I said we there's a deadline, you know, we said we there's a deadline, you know, we said we there's a deadline, you know, we used to always have deadlines because we used to always have deadlines because we used to always have deadlines because we had to go on tour with the record. The had to go on tour with the record. The had to go on tour with the record. The tour starts in March of the record out, tour starts in March of the record out, tour starts in March of the record out, you know. I said the Hackne Diamonds. I you know. I said the Hackne Diamonds. I you know. I said the Hackne Diamonds. I said the the deadline is Valentine's said the the deadline is Valentine's said the the deadline is Valentine's Day. Are you all going to remember that?

Day. Are you all going to remember that? Day. Are you all going to remember that? So, you know, there's no excuses. It was So, you know, there's no excuses. It was So, you know, there's no excuses. It was You thought it was March. It's You thought it was March. It's You thought it was March. It's Valentine's Day. And we almost made it Valentine's Day. And we almost made it Valentine's Day. And we almost made it over four weeks. We recorded probably, I over four weeks. We recorded probably, I over four weeks. We recorded probably, I don't know, 14 15 songs. I mean, a lot don't know, 14 15 songs. I mean, a lot don't know, 14 15 songs. I mean, a lot of stuff at uh the way I do things, uh of stuff at uh the way I do things, uh of stuff at uh the way I do things, uh some of the songs that I write and then some of the songs that I write and then some of the songs that I write and then I demo a lot of them first. So, I go in I demo a lot of them first. So, I go in I demo a lot of them first. So, I go in with uh um a friend of mine plays with a with uh um a friend of mine plays with a with uh um a friend of mine plays with a band Matt Clifford. We we demo a lot of band Matt Clifford. We we demo a lot of band Matt Clifford. We we demo a lot of the songs that I write. I demo them and the songs that I write. I demo them and the songs that I write. I demo them and I can see ah they could go here, they I can see ah they could go here, they I can see ah they could go here, they could go there, they could be this could go there, they could be this could go there, they could be this groove, they could be that groove. The groove, they could be that groove. The groove, they could be that groove. The and then you I so a lot of my version of and then you I so a lot of my version of and then you I so a lot of my version of what I think the song sounds like is what I think the song sounds like is what I think the song sounds like is already in my head. Everything else you already in my head. Everything else you already in my head. Everything else you layer on top of that. And you might layer on top of that. And you might layer on top of that. And you might Yeah. You might say that bass is great Yeah. You might say that bass is great Yeah. You might say that bass is great on it. I don't want to change anything. on it. I don't want to change anything. on it. I don't want to change anything. Or I just want to change just the Or I just want to change just the Or I just want to change just the chorus. Or I just want to change this. chorus. Or I just want to change this. chorus. Or I just want to change this. Oh, I want to keep the rhythm guitar. Oh, I want to keep the rhythm guitar. Oh, I want to keep the rhythm guitar. Oh, I don't want to keep the rhythm Oh, I don't want to keep the rhythm Oh, I don't want to keep the rhythm guitar. I'll do it again. you know, guitar. I'll do it again. you know, guitar. I'll do it again. you know, it's it's complex. it's it's complex. it's it's complex. >> So, some of the songs on on the new >> So, some of the songs on on the new >> So, some of the songs on on the new album are I hear them as, you know, album are I hear them as, you know, album are I hear them as, you know, they're they're relationship songs, they're they're relationship songs, they're they're relationship songs, songs of of regret or or insecurity. And songs of of regret or or insecurity. And songs of of regret or or insecurity. And it's it's interesting for me to hear MC it's it's interesting for me to hear MC it's it's interesting for me to hear MC Jagger singing those songs at your age Jagger singing those songs at your age Jagger singing those songs at your age and think about how, you know, they they and think about how, you know, they they and think about how, you know, they they land differently than if you were land differently than if you were land differently than if you were singing them at at 42 or 32. And and I I singing them at at 42 or 32. And and I I singing them at at 42 or 32. And and I I want to know from your perspective like want to know from your perspective like want to know from your perspective like artistically and emotionally artistically and emotionally artistically and emotionally what are the ways that you can inhabit a

what are the ways that you can inhabit a what are the ways that you can inhabit a song now that are different from how you song now that are different from how you song now that are different from how you used to inhabit? used to inhabit? used to inhabit? >> Yeah, it's it it I I don't well first of >> Yeah, it's it it I I don't well first of >> Yeah, it's it it I I don't well first of all I don't really think about it very all I don't really think about it very all I don't really think about it very much. So you know in much. So you know in much. So you know in song is about imagination and imag you song is about imagination and imag you song is about imagination and imag you know it's not all based on true know it's not all based on true know it's not all based on true experiences experiences experiences >> but you got to play the character of the >> but you got to play the character of the >> but you got to play the character of the song song song >> but the characters but the character >> but the characters but the character >> but the characters but the character singing the song is I it's a different singing the song is I it's a different singing the song is I it's a different character for me so when I'm singing Mr. character for me so when I'm singing Mr. character for me so when I'm singing Mr. charm. It's obviously a joke character, charm. It's obviously a joke character, charm. It's obviously a joke character, you know, um, and it's supposed to be you know, um, and it's supposed to be you know, um, and it's supposed to be taken with a sense of humor. And of taken with a sense of humor. And of taken with a sense of humor. And of course, some of the incidents in the course, some of the incidents in the course, some of the incidents in the verses did happen. And I can draw on my verses did happen. And I can draw on my verses did happen. And I can draw on my own experiences of talking to women in own experiences of talking to women in own experiences of talking to women in relationships. But I mean, the whole relationships. But I mean, the whole relationships. But I mean, the whole thing of it's not supposed to be taken thing of it's not supposed to be taken thing of it's not supposed to be taken seriously. You don't really think you're seriously. You don't really think you're seriously. You don't really think you're Mr. Charm, you know, not really. But Mr. Charm, you know, not really. But Mr. Charm, you know, not really. But then you might have another song which then you might have another song which then you might have another song which is more is more is more more heartfelt, you know, with more not more heartfelt, you know, with more not more heartfelt, you know, with more not so much humor and um so much humor and um so much humor and um >> back in your life.

>> back in your life. >> back in your life. >> Back in your life, which is a bit more >> Back in your life, which is a bit more >> Back in your life, which is a bit more of a kind of like it's a it's a classic of a kind of like it's a it's a classic of a kind of like it's a it's a classic theme, you know, you meet a woman and theme, you know, you meet a woman and theme, you know, you meet a woman and then then then she never calls you back. You know, you she never calls you back. You know, you she never calls you back. You know, you have a great time and she never calls have a great time and she never calls have a great time and she never calls you back. Does you back. Does you back. Does >> that happen to you a lot? Of >> that happen to you a lot? Of >> that happen to you a lot? Of >> It's happened to me. Of course, it's >> It's happened to me. Of course, it's >> It's happened to me. Of course, it's happened to me. So, I can draw on that. happened to me. So, I can draw on that. happened to me. So, I can draw on that. I'm not saying happened yesterday, but I'm not saying happened yesterday, but I'm not saying happened yesterday, but you can draw on that on that on that you can draw on that on that on that you can draw on that on that on that experience when it did happen to you experience when it did happen to you experience when it did happen to you when maybe it happened to me when I was when maybe it happened to me when I was when maybe it happened to me when I was 40, you know, but I can still write 40, you know, but I can still write 40, you know, but I can still write about it now. Writing's about about it now. Writing's about about it now. Writing's about imagination, you know, it's not only imagination, you know, it's not only imagination, you know, it's not only about personal experience. So, it's a about personal experience. So, it's a about personal experience. So, it's a mixture of personal experience and a mixture of personal experience and a mixture of personal experience and a mixture of imagination. mixture of imagination. mixture of imagination. >> You know, I'm I'm want to maybe put the >> You know, I'm I'm want to maybe put the >> You know, I'm I'm want to maybe put the question in slightly different terms. question in slightly different terms. question in slightly different terms. You know, there's a a movie performance You know, there's a a movie performance You know, there's a a movie performance of yours that I love when uh A Man from of yours that I love when uh A Man from of yours that I love when uh A Man from Ellesian Fields. Ellesian Fields. Ellesian Fields. >> Oh, yeah. Elizian Fields is an escort >> Oh, yeah. Elizian Fields is an escort >> Oh, yeah. Elizian Fields is an escort service. We tend to the wounds of lonely service. We tend to the wounds of lonely service. We tend to the wounds of lonely women in need of emotional as well as women in need of emotional as well as women in need of emotional as well as spiritual solace. spiritual solace. spiritual solace. >> You know, you play sort of like a >> You know, you play sort of like a >> You know, you play sort of like a middle-aged uh you know, he runs an an middle-aged uh you know, he runs an an middle-aged uh you know, he runs an an escort service for women. It's kind of escort service for women. It's kind of escort service for women. It's kind of like a but that performance has a lot of like a but that performance has a lot of like a but that performance has a lot of real feelings of regret in it. And I real feelings of regret in it. And I real feelings of regret in it. And I assume that you wouldn't have been able assume that you wouldn't have been able assume that you wouldn't have been able to give a performance like that earlier to give a performance like that earlier to give a performance like that earlier in your life in the in the in the same in your life in the in the in the same in your life in the in the in the same way that it would make no sense for you way that it would make no sense for you way that it would make no sense for you to sing some girls now.

to sing some girls now. to sing some girls now. >> No. Exactly. >> No. Exactly. >> No. Exactly. >> But so are are there things that you can >> But so are are there things that you can >> But so are are there things that you can do in a song or did on this album that do in a song or did on this album that do in a song or did on this album that you think, "Oh, I I wasn't capable of you think, "Oh, I I wasn't capable of you think, "Oh, I I wasn't capable of giving of inhabiting that lyric." giving of inhabiting that lyric." giving of inhabiting that lyric." >> That's a good question. I mean, it it >> That's a good question. I mean, it it >> That's a good question. I mean, it it requires a lot of thought to give a good requires a lot of thought to give a good requires a lot of thought to give a good answer because that's okay. That's why answer because that's okay. That's why answer because that's okay. That's why we're here. you know, I can't really we're here. you know, I can't really we're here. you know, I can't really it's hard for me to think of I'm trying it's hard for me to think of I'm trying it's hard for me to think of I'm trying to think of actual concrete examples of to think of actual concrete examples of to think of actual concrete examples of the songs on the record, you know. Um the songs on the record, you know. Um the songs on the record, you know. Um >> I mean you >> I mean you >> I mean you mean I think quite a lot of it you could mean I think quite a lot of it you could mean I think quite a lot of it you could say that that I wouldn't have done I say that that I wouldn't have done I say that that I wouldn't have done I wouldn't have written any of these songs wouldn't have written any of these songs wouldn't have written any of these songs when I was 30 maybe. I mean, honestly, I when I was 30 maybe. I mean, honestly, I when I was 30 maybe. I mean, honestly, I probably wouldn't have done. probably wouldn't have done. probably wouldn't have done. And then and then I've also got into And then and then I've also got into And then and then I've also got into this habit of doing songs that that are this habit of doing songs that that are this habit of doing songs that that are about personal relationships and then I about personal relationships and then I about personal relationships and then I throw a verse about politics in there. throw a verse about politics in there. throw a verse about politics in there. >> Yeah. you know, but I think that's a >> Yeah. you know, but I think that's a >> Yeah. you know, but I think that's a trick, you know, that I that I've trick, you know, that I that I've trick, you know, that I that I've learned from other songwriters or I've learned from other songwriters or I've learned from other songwriters or I've listened to others because nobody wants listened to others because nobody wants listened to others because nobody wants to hear a whole song about politics to hear a whole song about politics to hear a whole song about politics >> or I call it politics, social comment, >> or I call it politics, social comment, >> or I call it politics, social comment, you of any kind. It came in politics you of any kind. It came in politics you of any kind. It came in politics something else like a song like um the something else like a song like um the something else like a song like um the blues song like rough and twisted. It's blues song like rough and twisted. It's blues song like rough and twisted. It's really just like really just like really just like just stream of consciousness honestly.

just stream of consciousness honestly. just stream of consciousness honestly. It it it's you talk about woman It it it's you talk about woman It it it's you talk about woman everything, but it's and then you throw everything, but it's and then you throw everything, but it's and then you throw in this stuff. It's obviously about in this stuff. It's obviously about in this stuff. It's obviously about political and it's obviously, you know, political and it's obviously, you know, political and it's obviously, you know, the club was called conspiracy. You the club was called conspiracy. You the club was called conspiracy. You know, all they wanted was tyranny. So, know, all they wanted was tyranny. So, know, all they wanted was tyranny. So, you find yourself using these tricks. you find yourself using these tricks. you find yourself using these tricks. >> Did you ever see the John Melany special >> Did you ever see the John Melany special >> Did you ever see the John Melany special where the comedian John Melany where he where the comedian John Melany where he where the comedian John Melany where he does a bit about working with you on does a bit about working with you on does a bit about working with you on Saturday Night Live? Did you ever see Saturday Night Live? Did you ever see Saturday Night Live? Did you ever see that? No, I never saw that. He he has that? No, I never saw that. He he has that? No, I never saw that. He he has this bit where he's this bit where he's this bit where he's >> talking about working with famous people >> talking about working with famous people >> talking about working with famous people on the show and specifically about on the show and specifically about on the show and specifically about working with you and people would ask working with you and people would ask working with you and people would ask him I'm I'm paraphrasing but people him I'm I'm paraphrasing but people him I'm I'm paraphrasing but people would ask him like is MC Jagger nice? would ask him like is MC Jagger nice? would ask him like is MC Jagger nice? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know and he says of course MC Jagger >> You know and he says of course MC Jagger >> You know and he says of course MC Jagger is not nice or he's nice for the version is not nice or he's nice for the version is not nice or he's nice for the version of the life that MC Jagger has led. And of the life that MC Jagger has led. And of the life that MC Jagger has led. And he's he points out that you play to he's he points out that you play to he's he points out that you play to stadiums of people screaming for you for stadiums of people screaming for you for stadiums of people screaming for you for 50 plus years. That's got to change you 50 plus years. That's got to change you 50 plus years. That's got to change you as a person. If you do that for 50 as a person. If you do that for 50 as a person. If you do that for 50 years, you're never again going to be years, you're never again going to be years, you're never again going to be like, um, does anyone have a laptop like, um, does anyone have a laptop like, um, does anyone have a laptop charger I could borrow? You know, charger I could borrow? You know, charger I could borrow? You know, >> can you articulate how that's changed >> can you articulate how that's changed >> can you articulate how that's changed you as a person? I think, well, you as a person? I think, well, you as a person? I think, well, obviously obviously obviously you it's not normal way to mo It's not you it's not normal way to mo It's not you it's not normal way to mo It's not like most people's lives.

like most people's lives. like most people's lives. >> No, no, it's not. >> No, no, it's not. >> No, no, it's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. >> But but yeah, it does affect you. um you >> But but yeah, it does affect you. um you >> But but yeah, it does affect you. um you can become disassociated can become disassociated can become disassociated um from other people. um from other people. um from other people. >> Other people and you and a lot of people >> Other people and you and a lot of people >> Other people and you and a lot of people in show business only hang around with in show business only hang around with in show business only hang around with people in show business. Um people in show business. Um people in show business. Um >> uh because because they got something in >> uh because because they got something in >> uh because because they got something in common, you know, they because they can common, you know, they because they can common, you know, they because they can relate to each other, you know, and and relate to each other, you know, and and relate to each other, you know, and and and and and that you get disassociated from what that you get disassociated from what that you get disassociated from what what people might call real life. what people might call real life. what people might call real life. >> Do you think you have >> Do you think you have >> Do you think you have >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> definitely. Definitely. And then you can >> definitely. Definitely. And then you can >> definitely. Definitely. And then you can uh I mean you you you can fight you do uh I mean you you you can fight you do uh I mean you you you can fight you do fight against it. It's a conscious fight against it. It's a conscious fight against it. It's a conscious effort. It it takes conscious effort to effort. It it takes conscious effort to effort. It it takes conscious effort to be fight against um being disassociated. be fight against um being disassociated. be fight against um being disassociated. >> What do you do to fight against it? >> What do you do to fight against it? >> What do you do to fight against it? >> Well, it's quite easy really. I mean you >> Well, it's quite easy really. I mean you >> Well, it's quite easy really. I mean you just you just you just go out and walk just you just you just go out and walk just you just you just go out and walk on the street on your own and go do on the street on your own and go do on the street on your own and go do normal things and go and buy the New normal things and go and buy the New normal things and go and buy the New York Times.

York Times. York Times. you know, and but nevertheless, that you know, and but nevertheless, that you know, and but nevertheless, that that's only temporary. So, cuz your I that's only temporary. So, cuz your I that's only temporary. So, cuz your I think your psychologically your your think your psychologically your your think your psychologically your your actual state of mind is is permanently actual state of mind is is permanently actual state of mind is is permanently damaged by this or or affected or I damaged by this or or affected or I damaged by this or or affected or I mean, I think I think when you're in mean, I think I think when you're in mean, I think I think when you're in your uh late 20s and early 30s is a very your uh late 20s and early 30s is a very your uh late 20s and early 30s is a very tough time for people in this business tough time for people in this business tough time for people in this business because you because it's a big ego trip because you because it's a big ego trip because you because it's a big ego trip basically. I mean there's a huge you you basically. I mean there's a huge you you basically. I mean there's a huge you you have to have a huge ego to do this. If have to have a huge ego to do this. If have to have a huge ego to do this. If you don't you have you lots of people you don't you have you lots of people you don't you have you lots of people that do this that don't have huge egos that do this that don't have huge egos that do this that don't have huge egos have huge problems because they have to have huge problems because they have to have huge problems because they have to manufacture a completely different manufacture a completely different manufacture a completely different course my personality on stage is not my course my personality on stage is not my course my personality on stage is not my I have a friend who who says you know I have a friend who who says you know I have a friend who who says you know the standing joke is that I behave at a the standing joke is that I behave at a the standing joke is that I behave at a dinner party like I behave on stage. So dinner party like I behave on stage. So dinner party like I behave on stage. So >> well is that friend right? the other >> well is that friend right? the other >> well is that friend right? the other way. We make jokes about it, you know, way. We make jokes about it, you know, way. We make jokes about it, you know, because it's absurd what you do on because it's absurd what you do on because it's absurd what you do on stage. I mean, of course, I'm not really stage. I mean, of course, I'm not really stage. I mean, of course, I'm not really like my stage persona, a Jimmy Fallon, like my stage persona, a Jimmy Fallon, like my stage persona, a Jimmy Fallon, which I'm just about to go and do. He he which I'm just about to go and do. He he which I'm just about to go and do. He he thinks he's doing me when he does me, thinks he's doing me when he does me, thinks he's doing me when he does me, but it's it's completely such a an but it's it's completely such a an but it's it's completely such a an exaggerated version of me, but it works exaggerated version of me, but it works exaggerated version of me, but it works for him, you know, his version of me.

for him, you know, his version of me. for him, you know, his version of me. Hey, why don't you go out and do the Hey, why don't you go out and do the Hey, why don't you go out and do the rooster not >> but I mean to me the person to be like >> but I mean to me the person to be like that all the time this overbearing that all the time this overbearing that all the time this overbearing shouting per ego tripping person it's shouting per ego tripping person it's shouting per ego tripping person it's like it's of course you're not really like it's of course you're not really like it's of course you're not really like that but I think when you're in like that but I think when you're in like that but I think when you're in your late 20s and early 30s you you can your late 20s and early 30s you you can your late 20s and early 30s you you can be like that all the time and there are be like that all the time and there are be like that all the time and there are people in show businesses that never people in show businesses that never people in show businesses that never switch off. A lot of them are comedians switch off. A lot of them are comedians switch off. A lot of them are comedians and comedians sometimes they can't they and comedians sometimes they can't they and comedians sometimes they can't they can't switch off. They can't stop making can't switch off. They can't stop making can't switch off. They can't stop making jokes or or they get depressed. jokes or or they get depressed. jokes or or they get depressed. But I mean it's a bit of a sweeping But I mean it's a bit of a sweeping But I mean it's a bit of a sweeping statement. statement. statement. >> Did you have to learn to switch off? >> Did you have to learn to switch off? >> Did you have to learn to switch off? >> Yeah. I think it it comes with age. It's >> Yeah. I think it it comes with age. It's >> Yeah. I think it it comes with age. It's like if you do a movie, you do a like if you do a movie, you do a like if you do a movie, you do a character, right? So So if you're a character, right? So So if you're a character, right? So So if you're a method actor and you do this character, method actor and you do this character, method actor and you do this character, you've heard all these stories about you've heard all these stories about you've heard all these stories about method actors. They they take it to the method actors. They they take it to the method actors. They they take it to the absolute extreme. So they like the absolute extreme. So they like the absolute extreme. So they like the character all the time and then after character all the time and then after character all the time and then after the movie is over they're still in the the movie is over they're still in the the movie is over they're still in the character for a long time. It takes character for a long time. It takes character for a long time. It takes takes a long time to laugh off the takes a long time to laugh off the takes a long time to laugh off the character. So which character do you go character. So which character do you go character. So which character do you go back to?

back to? back to? >> What what's the character that you're >> What what's the character that you're >> What what's the character that you're going to retrieve? Is he is he always going to retrieve? Is he is he always going to retrieve? Is he is he always going to carry some of that character in going to carry some of that character in going to carry some of that character in his true character? Whatever that is. his true character? Whatever that is. his true character? Whatever that is. So this is this is I think the show So this is this is I think the show So this is this is I think the show business like dichotomy and it's like a business like dichotomy and it's like a business like dichotomy and it's like a it's something you learn to live with it's something you learn to live with it's something you learn to live with and you you always hope of course it and you you always hope of course it and you you always hope of course it isn't true that you always hope that isn't true that you always hope that isn't true that you always hope that you're a normal so-called normal person you're a normal so-called normal person you're a normal so-called normal person underneath. underneath. underneath. >> Yeah. It's nice to have the perks >> Yeah. It's nice to have the perks >> Yeah. It's nice to have the perks though. The perks. though. The perks. though. The perks. >> Yeah. But it's not about the perks. It's >> Yeah. But it's not about the perks. It's >> Yeah. But it's not about the perks. It's about being these several characters. about being these several characters. about being these several characters. >> You know, you're the character that >> You know, you're the character that >> You know, you're the character that plays the theater. You're the character plays the theater. You're the character plays the theater. You're the character that does the interview. You're the that does the interview. You're the that does the interview. You're the character that goes in on the stadium. character that goes in on the stadium. character that goes in on the stadium. You're the character in the recording You're the character in the recording You're the character in the recording studio. You're the character writing the studio. You're the character writing the studio. You're the character writing the song, not this character. I write now song, not this character. I write now song, not this character. I write now I'll be another character. Yeah, I'll I'll be another character. Yeah, I'll I'll be another character. Yeah, I'll write a song, then I'm going to be this write a song, then I'm going to be this write a song, then I'm going to be this character and I got wounded love. Now character and I got wounded love. Now character and I got wounded love. Now I'm going to be like, [ __ ] you. You I'm going to be like, [ __ ] you. You I'm going to be like, [ __ ] you. You know, it's know, it's know, it's >> Do you ever let the world see the person >> Do you ever let the world see the person >> Do you ever let the world see the person underneath the characters?

underneath the characters? underneath the characters? >> I'm not sure. Probably it's all there. >> I'm not sure. Probably it's all there. >> I'm not sure. Probably it's all there. Songs are pretty direct in a way um as a Songs are pretty direct in a way um as a Songs are pretty direct in a way um as a as a method of communication. They're as a method of communication. They're as a method of communication. They're relatively direct compared to say a relatively direct compared to say a relatively direct compared to say a movie where you need like a lot of, you movie where you need like a lot of, you movie where you need like a lot of, you know, you've got someone writing a know, you've got someone writing a know, you've got someone writing a script and you're changing the script script and you're changing the script script and you're changing the script and you got to change your lines and you and you got to change your lines and you and you got to change your lines and you got 200 people and then and then it's got 200 people and then and then it's got 200 people and then and then it's all edited in chopped up in bits. all edited in chopped up in bits. all edited in chopped up in bits. >> Records are relatively simple compared >> Records are relatively simple compared >> Records are relatively simple compared to that. to that. to that. >> There there are a handful of political >> There there are a handful of political >> There there are a handful of political lines sprinkled throughout the album. lines sprinkled throughout the album. lines sprinkled throughout the album. There's uh you know you saying about There's uh you know you saying about There's uh you know you saying about scuttling billionaires scrambling to scuttling billionaires scrambling to scuttling billionaires scrambling to their bolt holes in the sky about dirty their bolt holes in the sky about dirty their bolt holes in the sky about dirty rat autocrats rubber stamping judges. rat autocrats rubber stamping judges. rat autocrats rubber stamping judges. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Um and I actually find it uh heartening >> Um and I actually find it uh heartening >> Um and I actually find it uh heartening to to know that Mick Jagger sees the to to know that Mick Jagger sees the to to know that Mick Jagger sees the same problems out in the world than that same problems out in the world than that same problems out in the world than that the rest of us do. So can can you just the rest of us do. So can can you just the rest of us do. So can can you just tell me more about um sort of why you tell me more about um sort of why you tell me more about um sort of why you felt the impulse to include those kinds felt the impulse to include those kinds felt the impulse to include those kinds of lyrics? What are you seeing when you of lyrics? What are you seeing when you of lyrics? What are you seeing when you look around the world? Well, I mean, look around the world? Well, I mean, look around the world? Well, I mean, I've it's not the first time I've done I've it's not the first time I've done I've it's not the first time I've done songs with social comment.

songs with social comment. songs with social comment. >> I like doing it, but in small doses. >> I like doing it, but in small doses. >> I like doing it, but in small doses. Let's put it like that. I mean, who does Let's put it like that. I mean, who does Let's put it like that. I mean, who does it in huge doses? Hardly anybody in pop. it in huge doses? Hardly anybody in pop. it in huge doses? Hardly anybody in pop. It's pop music, you know? I mean, It's pop music, you know? I mean, It's pop music, you know? I mean, Ringing Hollow is more or less Ringing Hollow is more or less Ringing Hollow is more or less >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> completely social comment, >> completely social comment, >> completely social comment, >> right? So, but but even then, so I had >> right? So, but but even then, so I had >> right? So, but but even then, so I had to I had two songs that were on more or to I had two songs that were on more or to I had two songs that were on more or less the same subject, which is my love less the same subject, which is my love less the same subject, which is my love of America, you know, of America, you know, of America, you know, >> and what's gone wrong as a country. It's >> and what's gone wrong as a country. It's >> and what's gone wrong as a country. It's a lament about a lament about a lament about >> Yeah, it's a lament, but it's a love >> Yeah, it's a lament, but it's a love >> Yeah, it's a lament, but it's a love song, but it's it's a lament. And it's song, but it's it's a lament. And it's song, but it's it's a lament. And it's my my it's about and all it's about my my my it's about and all it's about my my my it's about and all it's about my own experiences which are long and and own experiences which are long and and own experiences which are long and and varied and and encompass lots of varied and and encompass lots of varied and and encompass lots of different places in America and not just different places in America and not just different places in America and not just being in New York and being in living in being in New York and being in living in being in New York and being in living in the Upper West Side. You know that you the Upper West Side. You know that you the Upper West Side. You know that you know I've got I've spent a lot of time know I've got I've spent a lot of time know I've got I've spent a lot of time in America in places that Americans have in America in places that Americans have in America in places that Americans have never ever been nor were likely to go to never ever been nor were likely to go to never ever been nor were likely to go to you know because they don't not in our you know because they don't not in our you know because they don't not in our world living in New York. Well, we're world living in New York. Well, we're world living in New York. Well, we're talking at we're talking now living in talking at we're talking now living in talking at we're talking now living in LA or Chicago, but I spend a lot of time LA or Chicago, but I spend a lot of time LA or Chicago, but I spend a lot of time in these weird places and like what you in these weird places and like what you in these weird places and like what you know just on tour you see everything.

know just on tour you see everything. know just on tour you see everything. You see everything you you know how many You see everything you you know how many You see everything you you know how many people from New York you know that we people from New York you know that we people from New York you know that we sit around really go to Cleveland very sit around really go to Cleveland very sit around really go to Cleveland very often you know and then you're there for often you know and then you're there for often you know and then you're there for 5 days it's not very long but you you 5 days it's not very long but you you 5 days it's not very long but you you can see quite a lot if you go out every can see quite a lot if you go out every can see quite a lot if you go out every day you see different sides of it. No, day you see different sides of it. No, day you see different sides of it. No, I'm not I'm not saying I mean I enjoy I'm not I'm not saying I mean I enjoy I'm not I'm not saying I mean I enjoy it, you know, other women go out. Um I it, you know, other women go out. Um I it, you know, other women go out. Um I mean New Orleans people I know people go mean New Orleans people I know people go mean New Orleans people I know people go to New Orleans and is a tourist place, to New Orleans and is a tourist place, to New Orleans and is a tourist place, but I mean you find things there and but I mean you find things there and but I mean you find things there and then you you you find fantastic music then you you you find fantastic music then you you you find fantastic music scene. It's a a unique town of in the scene. It's a a unique town of in the scene. It's a a unique town of in the United States completely unique um not United States completely unique um not United States completely unique um not like any other town. It's not it's not like any other town. It's not it's not like any other town. It's not it's not you know so you explore these places and you know so you explore these places and you know so you explore these places and you have a love of the country and you have a love of the country and you have a love of the country and everything. So in Ring Hollow so everything. So in Ring Hollow so everything. So in Ring Hollow so I had another song but the other song I I had another song but the other song I I had another song but the other song I thought was too down and I I rejected it thought was too down and I I rejected it thought was too down and I I rejected it and worked on Ring Hollow instead. So so and worked on Ring Hollow instead. So so and worked on Ring Hollow instead. So so it's really a love song to America was it's really a love song to America was it's really a love song to America was you know you know you know fell madly in love with you before we fell madly in love with you before we fell madly in love with you before we ever met. before I ever went to America, ever met. before I ever went to America, ever met. before I ever went to America, I was in love with America like a lot of I was in love with America like a lot of I was in love with America like a lot of European uh teenagers, you know, were, European uh teenagers, you know, were, European uh teenagers, you know, were, you know, see the movies and all this.

you know, see the movies and all this. you know, see the movies and all this. So, it's all about that. And then, so So, it's all about that. And then, so So, it's all about that. And then, so then it talks about, you know, then then then it talks about, you know, then then then it talks about, you know, then then it goes into the America of now and, you it goes into the America of now and, you it goes into the America of now and, you know, how can we, you know, ascetain know, how can we, you know, ascetain know, how can we, you know, ascetain what's going on? what's going on? what's going on? >> What's the last the last line line of >> What's the last the last line line of >> What's the last the last line line of the song? Right. the song? Right. the song? Right. >> I can't remember. I'm going to buy a >> I can't remember. I'm going to buy a >> I can't remember. I'm going to buy a brand new hat. brand new hat. brand new hat. >> Brand new hat. What's that a reference >> Brand new hat. What's that a reference >> Brand new hat. What's that a reference to? to? to? >> I heard something good is going to >> I heard something good is going to >> I heard something good is going to happen. I think that's what it means. happen. I think that's what it means. happen. I think that's what it means. >> Yeah. Uh uh I heard that as as like a a >> Yeah. Uh uh I heard that as as like a a >> Yeah. Uh uh I heard that as as like a a passive aggressive man. passive aggressive man. passive aggressive man. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Maybe. Well, you know who the one person >> Maybe. Well, you know who the one person >> Maybe. Well, you know who the one person that you that is named uh by that you that is named uh by that you that is named uh by their actual name on the album? I might their actual name on the album? I might their actual name on the album? I might be missing one. Do you know the one? be missing one. Do you know the one? be missing one. Do you know the one? >> There's one one uh Elon Musk. >> There's one one uh Elon Musk. >> There's one one uh Elon Musk. >> Elon Musk. Yeah. Mad mogul. >> Elon Musk. Yeah. Mad mogul. >> Elon Musk. Yeah. Mad mogul. >> Mr. Musk. >> Mr. Musk. >> Mr. Musk. >> Yeah. What's your impression of him? >> Yeah. What's your impression of him? >> Yeah. What's your impression of him? I've never met him so I don't really I've never met him so I don't really I've never met him so I don't really >> I mean he's obviously hugely successful >> I mean he's obviously hugely successful >> I mean he's obviously hugely successful >> and you know he's someone who who the >> and you know he's someone who who the >> and you know he's someone who who the term rockstar gets applied to sometimes term rockstar gets applied to sometimes term rockstar gets applied to sometimes and now it's become kind of a common and now it's become kind of a common and now it's become kind of a common trope where these tech trope where these tech trope where these tech >> uh entrepreneurs are called you know >> uh entrepreneurs are called you know >> uh entrepreneurs are called you know rock stars and rock stars and rock stars and >> what does an actual rockstar think of >> what does an actual rockstar think of >> what does an actual rockstar think of the way that that term has now become the way that that term has now become the way that that term has now become applied to anybody who has sort of the applied to anybody who has sort of the applied to anybody who has sort of the patina of patina of patina of >> this kind of because it's applied to all >> this kind of because it's applied to all >> this kind of because it's applied to all kinds of people, not just tech people.

kinds of people, not just tech people. kinds of people, not just tech people. It's become a phrase that's thrown It's become a phrase that's thrown It's become a phrase that's thrown around for around for around for >> any any in any form of success, you >> any any in any form of success, you >> any any in any form of success, you know, that or know, that or know, that or >> it just I think it just means that >> it just I think it just means that >> it just I think it just means that you're just out there and you know in you're just out there and you know in you're just out there and you know in front of thousands of people and you're front of thousands of people and you're front of thousands of people and you're a huge success. I mean that's what it a huge success. I mean that's what it a huge success. I mean that's what it means. I mean to be called that. I think means. I mean to be called that. I think means. I mean to be called that. I think it's a big compliment to be called that. it's a big compliment to be called that. it's a big compliment to be called that. It's also a compliment to rock stars to It's also a compliment to rock stars to It's also a compliment to rock stars to use that actual phrase. use that actual phrase. use that actual phrase. >> I think it devalues rock star. It >> I think it devalues rock star. It >> I think it devalues rock star. It devalues it, but it also it bigs it up devalues it, but it also it bigs it up devalues it, but it also it bigs it up as well, you know. as well, you know. as well, you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> So, yeah. >> So, yeah. >> Wait, I I want to ask something that's >> Wait, I I want to ask something that's >> Wait, I I want to ask something that's uh sort of related to um kind of what uh sort of related to um kind of what uh sort of related to um kind of what you were talking what we were talking you were talking what we were talking you were talking what we were talking about earlier, the the how people about earlier, the the how people about earlier, the the how people understand like the persona of of MC understand like the persona of of MC understand like the persona of of MC Jagger. And and my question is to do Jagger. And and my question is to do Jagger. And and my question is to do with sort of how you understand your with sort of how you understand your with sort of how you understand your relationship with your audience. This relationship with your audience. This relationship with your audience. This actually maybe speaks to the politics actually maybe speaks to the politics actually maybe speaks to the politics stuff in a in a way too because and let stuff in a in a way too because and let stuff in a in a way too because and let me give two counter examples to sort of me give two counter examples to sort of me give two counter examples to sort of triangulate the question. So so on one triangulate the question. So so on one triangulate the question. So so on one poll we have somebody like Bob Dylan poll we have somebody like Bob Dylan poll we have somebody like Bob Dylan where if you go see him live he's great.

where if you go see him live he's great. where if you go see him live he's great. It almost feels like the crowd is It almost feels like the crowd is It almost feels like the crowd is incidental like he he's going to be incidental like he he's going to be incidental like he he's going to be doing whatever he's doing whether or not doing whatever he's doing whether or not doing whatever he's doing whether or not people showed up or or not. On the other people showed up or or not. On the other people showed up or or not. On the other end of the spectrum, you have somebody end of the spectrum, you have somebody end of the spectrum, you have somebody like a Bruce Springsteen who who clearly like a Bruce Springsteen who who clearly like a Bruce Springsteen who who clearly sees his job as engaging in a meaningful sees his job as engaging in a meaningful sees his job as engaging in a meaningful back and forth. Yes. back and forth. Yes. back and forth. Yes. >> With with his audience. It means >> With with his audience. It means >> With with his audience. It means something different to him. something different to him. something different to him. >> What does your relationship to the >> What does your relationship to the >> What does your relationship to the audience mean to you? What do they audience mean to you? What do they audience mean to you? What do they represent represent represent >> all those people out there? >> all those people out there? >> all those people out there? >> Well, it Well, first of all, it depends >> Well, it Well, first of all, it depends >> Well, it Well, first of all, it depends where you are and what kind of event it where you are and what kind of event it where you are and what kind of event it is. like the the the one the New Orleans is. like the the the one the New Orleans is. like the the the one the New Orleans event. That's a festival. They didn't event. That's a festival. They didn't event. That's a festival. They didn't come to see you necessarily. You know, come to see you necessarily. You know, come to see you necessarily. You know, they they they bought their tickets they they they bought their tickets they they they bought their tickets before they knew you were coming, before they knew you were coming, before they knew you were coming, >> right? If you play the New Orleans Jazz >> right? If you play the New Orleans Jazz >> right? If you play the New Orleans Jazz Festival, Festival, Festival, >> you know, we we played that then we do >> you know, we we played that then we do >> you know, we we played that then we do Summer in the Park in London. You buy Summer in the Park in London. You buy Summer in the Park in London. You buy those tickets. You Glastonbury. You buy those tickets. You Glastonbury. You buy those tickets. You Glastonbury. You buy those tickets because you like that those tickets because you like that those tickets because you like that festival. You always think something's festival. You always think something's festival. You always think something's good going to happen, but you don't good going to happen, but you don't good going to happen, but you don't know. So, they're not necessarily know. So, they're not necessarily know. So, they're not necessarily coming to see they're not your biggest coming to see they're not your biggest coming to see they're not your biggest fans necessarily. I'm not saying they fans necessarily. I'm not saying they fans necessarily. I'm not saying they they hate you otherwise it probably they hate you otherwise it probably they hate you otherwise it probably wouldn't be there. There's different wouldn't be there. There's different wouldn't be there. There's different levels of these kind of people and you levels of these kind of people and you levels of these kind of people and you have to treat them in a slightly have to treat them in a slightly have to treat them in a slightly different way. I mean my the bottom line different way. I mean my the bottom line different way. I mean my the bottom line of my thing is really is that I of my thing is really is that I of my thing is really is that I my my job in in the live music world is my my job in in the live music world is my my job in in the live music world is is is is just those people that come is to h have

just those people that come is to h have just those people that come is to h have the best time they possibly can. and and the best time they possibly can. and and the best time they possibly can. and and for 2 hours or whatever it is to forget for 2 hours or whatever it is to forget for 2 hours or whatever it is to forget all their problems and the problems of all their problems and the problems of all their problems and the problems of the world and their mortgages and their the world and their mortgages and their the world and their mortgages and their whatever and and and and if they have whatever and and and and if they have whatever and and and and if they have bronze or just just to give them they bronze or just just to give them they bronze or just just to give them they can have just the best time. It's it's can have just the best time. It's it's can have just the best time. It's it's similar going to a sports event really similar going to a sports event really similar going to a sports event really because you you you you everything else because you you you you everything else because you you you you everything else is shout out. You're just watching that is shout out. You're just watching that is shout out. You're just watching that who's going to win. You know, you're not who's going to win. You know, you're not who's going to win. You know, you're not worrying about everything else. You worrying about everything else. You worrying about everything else. You know, you those things are out of your know, you those things are out of your know, you those things are out of your mind. I know you're still on that you're mind. I know you're still on that you're mind. I know you're still on that you're on the phone everything when you know oh on the phone everything when you know oh on the phone everything when you know oh my your oh little Danny has like hurt my your oh little Danny has like hurt my your oh little Danny has like hurt his tooth but you know I know you can his tooth but you know I know you can his tooth but you know I know you can still have that but I know you can still still have that but I know you can still still have that but I know you can still have that but in the old days you never have that but in the old days you never have that but in the old days you never had that really so so uh so that's my had that really so so uh so that's my had that really so so uh so that's my job so is to make them have the best job so is to make them have the best job so is to make them have the best time they possibly haven't and some time they possibly haven't and some time they possibly haven't and some auditions want to go completely nuts you auditions want to go completely nuts you auditions want to go completely nuts you know and and you so then you encourage know and and you so then you encourage know and and you so then you encourage them to go more nuts and say you can them to go more nuts and say you can them to go more nuts and say you can play to some places in the world it's play to some places in the world it's play to some places in the world it's different you know you play in Finland different you know you play in Finland different you know you play in Finland it's not the same as playing in it's not the same as playing in it's not the same as playing in Argentina you know it's a different they Argentina you know it's a different they Argentina you know it's a different they don't they don't want to go completely don't they don't want to go completely don't they don't want to go completely so nuts may well maybe they do I'm just so nuts may well maybe they do I'm just so nuts may well maybe they do I'm just using as possibles using as possibles using as possibles >> but so you you don't want to be trying >> but so you you don't want to be trying >> but so you you don't want to be trying to churn them up into like get to churn them up into like get to churn them up into like get frustrated that they're not being frustrated that they're not being frustrated that they're not being demonstrative or you don't think they're demonstrative or you don't think they're demonstrative or you don't think they're having a good time because they might be having a good time because they might be having a good time because they might be quite relatively calm they might be quite relatively calm they might be quite relatively calm they might be relatively relatively relatively you know, they they're having a good

you know, they they're having a good you know, they they're having a good time, but in their I always say to time, but in their I always say to time, but in their I always say to everyone else, they're having a good everyone else, they're having a good everyone else, they're having a good time in their own way, time in their own way, time in their own way, but as you go to another place and but as you go to another place and but as you go to another place and they're going completely apeshit, you they're going completely apeshit, you they're going completely apeshit, you know. So, so and your job is to make know. So, so and your job is to make know. So, so and your job is to make them more apeshit. That's they want to them more apeshit. That's they want to them more apeshit. That's they want to go ape [ __ ] but let's go apehit, you go ape [ __ ] but let's go apehit, you go ape [ __ ] but let's go apehit, you know. So, I want to dig a little deeper know. So, I want to dig a little deeper know. So, I want to dig a little deeper on that question. Yeah. So you're you're on that question. Yeah. So you're you're on that question. Yeah. So you're you're you're talking about what your job is in you're talking about what your job is in you're talking about what your job is in those events is to make people have a those events is to make people have a those events is to make people have a good time to make to you know they want good time to make to you know they want good time to make to you know they want to leave the concert feeling like it was to leave the concert feeling like it was to leave the concert feeling like it was worth it and they could forget their worth it and they could forget their worth it and they could forget their troubles troubles troubles >> and you don't want to lecture them. >> and you don't want to lecture them. >> and you don't want to lecture them. >> You don't want to lecture them. Um but >> You don't want to lecture them. Um but >> You don't want to lecture them. Um but my question is actually about whether my question is actually about whether my question is actually about whether like what meaning the job has to you. like what meaning the job has to you. like what meaning the job has to you. Like I I have a job that has a basic Like I I have a job that has a basic Like I I have a job that has a basic description. and it's very different description. and it's very different description. and it's very different than yours, than yours, than yours, >> but my job actually, you know, it means >> but my job actually, you know, it means >> but my job actually, you know, it means something to me. And and when it's something to me. And and when it's something to me. And and when it's working best, it allows me to working best, it allows me to working best, it allows me to >> uh satisfy curiosity I have about the >> uh satisfy curiosity I have about the >> uh satisfy curiosity I have about the world, meet people I wouldn't normally world, meet people I wouldn't normally world, meet people I wouldn't normally meet, ask questions of people that I meet, ask questions of people that I meet, ask questions of people that I would never get a chance to ask, and and would never get a chance to ask, and and would never get a chance to ask, and and learn things that help, you know, that learn things that help, you know, that learn things that help, you know, that that I find are valuable to me as a that I find are valuable to me as a that I find are valuable to me as a person. Do do you like what's Mick person. Do do you like what's Mick person. Do do you like what's Mick Jagger's version of that? Am I being Jagger's version of that? Am I being Jagger's version of that? Am I being naive and uh polyianaish to think that naive and uh polyianaish to think that naive and uh polyianaish to think that maybe there is one?

maybe there is one? maybe there is one? >> I have thought about this. I mean >> I have thought about this. I mean >> I have thought about this. I mean obviously thought about it at the obviously thought about it at the obviously thought about it at the beginning of my career of course didn't beginning of my career of course didn't beginning of my career of course didn't think about it at all. I was just think about it at all. I was just think about it at all. I was just learning how to do what you know it's learning how to do what you know it's learning how to do what you know it's totally your about you you know and the totally your about you you know and the totally your about you you know and the band and are they going to you know band and are they going to you know band and are they going to you know what's the next number and are they what's the next number and are they what's the next number and are they going to play it right and am I going to going to play it right and am I going to going to play it right and am I going to remember the words you know it's like remember the words you know it's like remember the words you know it's like it's just the basics you're getting the it's just the basics you're getting the it's just the basics you're getting the basics down. Okay. And now after you've basics down. Okay. And now after you've basics down. Okay. And now after you've got through that accomplishment, which got through that accomplishment, which got through that accomplishment, which takes a bit of time to do, but then what takes a bit of time to do, but then what takes a bit of time to do, but then what you're saying is when I get out there, you're saying is when I get out there, you're saying is when I get out there, >> what does it what does it mean? >> what does it what does it mean? >> what does it what does it mean? >> What does it all mean for you? For you. >> What does it all mean for you? For you. >> What does it all mean for you? For you. >> Yeah. Well, it it Well, it's a lot of >> Yeah. Well, it it Well, it's a lot of >> Yeah. Well, it it Well, it's a lot of joy for me. First of all, joy for me. First of all, joy for me. First of all, >> first of all, it's a huge buzz, you >> first of all, it's a huge buzz, you >> first of all, it's a huge buzz, you know, adrenaline. know, adrenaline. know, adrenaline. It it's a huge adrenaline buzz, which It it's a huge adrenaline buzz, which It it's a huge adrenaline buzz, which must be the same as for a sport. If you must be the same as for a sport. If you must be the same as for a sport. If you play sport, if you play a football team, play sport, if you play a football team, play sport, if you play a football team, you go play 50,000 people, must be about you go play 50,000 people, must be about you go play 50,000 people, must be about the same similar buzz. So, so I mean, the same similar buzz. So, so I mean, the same similar buzz. So, so I mean, you know, I don't have anyone coming at you know, I don't have anyone coming at you know, I don't have anyone coming at me. So, it's much easier than playing me. So, it's much easier than playing me. So, it's much easier than playing around.

around. around. >> I don't have to do I don't have to do >> I don't have to do I don't have to do >> I don't have to do I don't have to do any of that. But, but that's where the any of that. But, but that's where the any of that. But, but that's where the analogy breaks down. So, so you get out analogy breaks down. So, so you get out analogy breaks down. So, so you get out there and you get when you get out there there and you get when you get out there there and you get when you get out there first, you get this massive adrenaline first, you get this massive adrenaline first, you get this massive adrenaline buzz and then your job really is really buzz and then your job really is really buzz and then your job really is really you have to control that adrenaline you have to control that adrenaline you have to control that adrenaline buzz. you know, you've got to look after buzz. you know, you've got to look after buzz. you know, you've got to look after yourself first. And while you're doing yourself first. And while you're doing yourself first. And while you're doing that first five minutes, then you're that first five minutes, then you're that first five minutes, then you're evaluating the audience. So, you you evaluating the audience. So, you you evaluating the audience. So, you you evaluate them, you know, in a good way. evaluate them, you know, in a good way. evaluate them, you know, in a good way. I mean, but you're evaluating them how I mean, but you're evaluating them how I mean, but you're evaluating them how they Yeah. What's the temperature of the they Yeah. What's the temperature of the they Yeah. What's the temperature of the crowd? How are they feeling? Are they is crowd? How are they feeling? Are they is crowd? How are they feeling? Are they is it cold? You know, is it raining? All it cold? You know, is it raining? All it cold? You know, is it raining? All these things happen. uh uh and you know these things happen. uh uh and you know these things happen. uh uh and you know do they are they already enjoying do they are they already enjoying do they are they already enjoying themselves or they feel a bit listless? themselves or they feel a bit listless? themselves or they feel a bit listless? Have they wait too long? Have they had a Have they wait too long? Have they had a Have they wait too long? Have they had a hard time getting you know all these hard time getting you know all these hard time getting you know all these things of contributing factors and allow things of contributing factors and allow things of contributing factors and allow so so then you you evaluate the audience so so then you you evaluate the audience so so then you you evaluate the audience and see how they feel. Yeah. And then a and see how they feel. Yeah. And then a and see how they feel. Yeah. And then a lot of them are very long way away lot of them are very long way away lot of them are very long way away which is one of the problems if you're which is one of the problems if you're which is one of the problems if you're playing cuz mostly I play stadiums right playing cuz mostly I play stadiums right playing cuz mostly I play stadiums right if you're playing a theater you don't if you're playing a theater you don't if you're playing a theater you don't have these problems you know you can you have these problems you know you can you have these problems you know you can you can you you if you're playing a theater can you you if you're playing a theater can you you if you're playing a theater you can very quickly become a group you you can very quickly become a group you you can very quickly become a group you know and people when I was you know know and people when I was you know know and people when I was you know starting out would showed me how to do starting out would showed me how to do starting out would showed me how to do that were like little Richard I toured that were like little Richard I toured that were like little Richard I toured with for a long time um he I had no idea with for a long time um he I had no idea with for a long time um he I had no idea that people even could do what he did.

that people even could do what he did. that people even could do what he did. You know, performers didn't do that. You know, performers didn't do that. You know, performers didn't do that. They just went out and played their They just went out and played their They just went out and played their songs and kind of said hello and that songs and kind of said hello and that songs and kind of said hello and that was it. I mean, he he was embracing them was it. I mean, he he was embracing them was it. I mean, he he was embracing them all, getting them all to, you know, go all, getting them all to, you know, go all, getting them all to, you know, go along with his version of the world, along with his version of the world, along with his version of the world, stand up, sit down and make jokes and stand up, sit down and make jokes and stand up, sit down and make jokes and and it becomes a community, you know. and it becomes a community, you know. and it becomes a community, you know. So, for a small time, it becomes this So, for a small time, it becomes this So, for a small time, it becomes this community. So, it's much more difficult community. So, it's much more difficult community. So, it's much more difficult to do that in a stadium. You still have to do that in a stadium. You still have to do that in a stadium. You still have to do it. So, that's why stages have to to do it. So, that's why stages have to to do it. So, that's why stages have to be big. That's why you have to get down be big. That's why you have to get down be big. That's why you have to get down there. That's why you have to pay there. That's why you have to pay there. That's why you have to pay attention to all these people and that's attention to all these people and that's attention to all these people and that's why you have to talk to them cuz you why you have to talk to them cuz you why you have to talk to them cuz you want that community for those couple of want that community for those couple of want that community for those couple of hours to be a good community. Have fun. hours to be a good community. Have fun. hours to be a good community. Have fun. That's your job. I mean, I'm not not That's your job. I mean, I'm not not That's your job. I mean, I'm not not completely answering your question, but completely answering your question, but completely answering your question, but I mean that's that's a lot of what I do. I mean that's that's a lot of what I do. I mean that's that's a lot of what I do. you know, I've I've read you know, I've I've read you know, I've I've read uh a huge amount of interviews with you uh a huge amount of interviews with you uh a huge amount of interviews with you going back, you know, dec going back, you know, dec going back, you know, dec they're they're interesting there, but they're they're interesting there, but they're they're interesting there, but there are some things that stand out and there are some things that stand out and there are some things that stand out and and one thing that I've noticed that you and one thing that I've noticed that you and one thing that I've noticed that you almost never do in interviews is tell almost never do in interviews is tell almost never do in interviews is tell stories about being in the Rolling stories about being in the Rolling stories about being in the Rolling Stones and and I'm not asking you to, Stones and and I'm not asking you to, Stones and and I'm not asking you to, you know, uh be nostalgic or or share you know, uh be nostalgic or or share you know, uh be nostalgic or or share some intimate details, but like there's some intimate details, but like there's some intimate details, but like there's got to be some got to be some got to be some >> like old, you know, chestnut that that >> like old, you know, chestnut that that >> like old, you know, chestnut that that you break out at cocktail parties or you break out at cocktail parties or you break out at cocktail parties or that your kids if they ask you like, that your kids if they ask you like, that your kids if they ask you like, "Hey, what was it? What was it like uh "Hey, what was it? What was it like uh "Hey, what was it? What was it like uh being on tour with Stevie Wonder in 1972 being on tour with Stevie Wonder in 1972 being on tour with Stevie Wonder in 1972 or whatever that you that like a break

or whatever that you that like a break or whatever that you that like a break glass in case of emergency kind of story glass in case of emergency kind of story glass in case of emergency kind of story that you can tell?" Is there is there that you can tell?" Is there is there that you can tell?" Is there is there one just something here's a funny thing one just something here's a funny thing one just something here's a funny thing that happened when I was in the ro? that happened when I was in the ro? that happened when I was in the ro? >> You mentioned Stevie Wonders. So, >> You mentioned Stevie Wonders. So, >> You mentioned Stevie Wonders. So, >> I shouldn't have. >> I shouldn't have. >> I shouldn't have. >> You mentioned Stevie Wonder. So, we were >> You mentioned Stevie Wonder. So, we were >> You mentioned Stevie Wonder. So, we were playing at Mass Garden with Stevie playing at Mass Garden with Stevie playing at Mass Garden with Stevie Wonder. So we said come up and we'll Wonder. So we said come up and we'll Wonder. So we said come up and we'll play we'll do a we'll do a mashup of play we'll do a we'll do a mashup of play we'll do a we'll do a mashup of satisfaction and uptight satisfaction and uptight satisfaction and uptight and uh so because they're both the same and uh so because they're both the same and uh so because they're both the same beat. So um so so he comes on the stage beat. So um so so he comes on the stage beat. So um so so he comes on the stage and we do this mash up time and then and we do this mash up time and then and we do this mash up time and then someone and I can't remember whose idea someone and I can't remember whose idea someone and I can't remember whose idea it might be mine. Um decides that we're it might be mine. Um decides that we're it might be mine. Um decides that we're going to throw custard pies at the end going to throw custard pies at the end going to throw custard pies at the end cuz it's the it's the last date of the cuz it's the it's the last date of the cuz it's the it's the last date of the tour and it's the last number of the tour and it's the last number of the tour and it's the last number of the show. Why wouldn't you throw custard show. Why wouldn't you throw custard show. Why wouldn't you throw custard pies? It's rather unfair for Stevie. So pies? It's rather unfair for Stevie. So pies? It's rather unfair for Stevie. So be so [ __ ] it. Throw everyone's throwing be so [ __ ] it. Throw everyone's throwing be so [ __ ] it. Throw everyone's throwing c including Stevie. He's throwing c including Stevie. He's throwing c including Stevie. He's throwing custard pies in there. Everyone's ends custard pies in there. Everyone's ends custard pies in there. Everyone's ends in covered in custard pies and I loved in covered in custard pies and I loved in covered in custard pies and I loved it.

it. it. >> All right, there you go. Thank you very >> All right, there you go. Thank you very >> All right, there you go. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with much for taking the time to speak with much for taking the time to speak with me. I I appreciate it. me. I I appreciate it. me. I I appreciate it. >> Thanks so much for for everything. All >> Thanks so much for for everything. All >> Thanks so much for for everything. All your questions are interesting. your questions are interesting. your questions are interesting. >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest >> On the interview, we talked to our guest twice. A few weeks later, I spoke with twice. A few weeks later, I spoke with twice. A few weeks later, I spoke with Mick Jagger again about whether the Mick Jagger again about whether the Mick Jagger again about whether the Rolling Stones will ever go on tour Rolling Stones will ever go on tour Rolling Stones will ever go on tour again and what, if anything, is good again and what, if anything, is good again and what, if anything, is good about getting older. about getting older. about getting older. Mick, we're officially rolling now. Mick, we're officially rolling now. Mick, we're officially rolling now. >> Okay. So, what are we going to speak >> Okay. So, what are we going to speak >> Okay. So, what are we going to speak about today that we didn't speak about about today that we didn't speak about about today that we didn't speak about before? before? before? >> Oh, there's so much there's so many >> Oh, there's so much there's so many >> Oh, there's so much there's so many things, but I'd like to start in with a things, but I'd like to start in with a things, but I'd like to start in with a question about something that just came question about something that just came question about something that just came to me this morning. So, I was to me this morning. So, I was to me this morning. So, I was I was watching um just clips of you on I was watching um just clips of you on I was watching um just clips of you on YouTube, and there's a great it's like a YouTube, and there's a great it's like a YouTube, and there's a great it's like a 50-second clip of you, maybe it's 50-second clip of you, maybe it's 50-second clip of you, maybe it's backstage. It's just you at a keyboard backstage. It's just you at a keyboard backstage. It's just you at a keyboard trying to work through uh your the tune trying to work through uh your the tune trying to work through uh your the tune Shine a Light. Um and you're trying to Shine a Light. Um and you're trying to Shine a Light. Um and you're trying to remember the chords and it's it's remember the chords and it's it's remember the chords and it's it's actually just this it's a really actually just this it's a really actually just this it's a really beautiful short clip because you're beautiful short clip because you're beautiful short clip because you're playing those gospel chords. There's playing those gospel chords. There's playing those gospel chords. There's like to paraphrase the song, there's a like to paraphrase the song, there's a like to paraphrase the song, there's a little uh gleam right in your eye. Okay.

>> And it it feels like the apparatus of >> And it it feels like the apparatus of like fame and and a crowd or any of like like fame and and a crowd or any of like like fame and and a crowd or any of like that has anything like that has fallen that has anything like that has fallen that has anything like that has fallen away. Just a musician away. Just a musician away. Just a musician >> playing music and and and loving it and >> playing music and and and loving it and >> playing music and and and loving it and it's really very pure and and sweet. And it's really very pure and and sweet. And it's really very pure and and sweet. And I thought if I wondered, can you share a I thought if I wondered, can you share a I thought if I wondered, can you share a moment or a memory of just when you were moment or a memory of just when you were moment or a memory of just when you were playing music and kind of the the playing music and kind of the the playing music and kind of the the machinery around the Rolling Stones just machinery around the Rolling Stones just machinery around the Rolling Stones just fell away and and you just had that love fell away and and you just had that love fell away and and you just had that love and freedom and lost yourself just and freedom and lost yourself just and freedom and lost yourself just playing playing a tune. playing playing a tune. playing playing a tune. >> That would that's what you do when >> That would that's what you do when >> That would that's what you do when you're writing. I mean, the occasion you're writing. I mean, the occasion you're writing. I mean, the occasion that you describe, I don't really that you describe, I don't really that you describe, I don't really remember, but uh you said it was remember, but uh you said it was remember, but uh you said it was backstage, so that's a different thing. backstage, so that's a different thing. backstage, so that's a different thing. you're obviously getting ready for a you're obviously getting ready for a you're obviously getting ready for a show and and trying to I don't know what show and and trying to I don't know what show and and trying to I don't know what I was doing. Um I was probably going to I was doing. Um I was probably going to I was doing. Um I was probably going to do that song, but maybe I wasn't. Maybe do that song, but maybe I wasn't. Maybe do that song, but maybe I wasn't. Maybe I was just doodling with that song, you I was just doodling with that song, you I was just doodling with that song, you know, for fun. And then when you while know, for fun. And then when you while know, for fun. And then when you while you're waiting to go on stage, sometimes you're waiting to go on stage, sometimes you're waiting to go on stage, sometimes sometimes you I always have a piano in sometimes you I always have a piano in sometimes you I always have a piano in the room and a guitar and stuff and and the room and a guitar and stuff and and the room and a guitar and stuff and and my room's always the quietest my room's always the quietest my room's always the quietest cuz I I don't let people in like a load cuz I I don't let people in like a load cuz I I don't let people in like a load of friends and families. I know they can of friends and families. I know they can of friends and families. I know they can come in but it's like then you have to come in but it's like then you have to come in but it's like then you have to leave you know what I mean and so yeah leave you know what I mean and so yeah leave you know what I mean and so yeah so you can like you have moments where so you can like you have moments where so you can like you have moments where you just doodle around you know what you just doodle around you know what you just doodle around you know what you're describing really is when you're you're describing really is when you're you're describing really is when you're writing I mean you don't you're not writing I mean you don't you're not writing I mean you don't you're not thinking about going on stage or thinking about going on stage or thinking about going on stage or anything if you're at home or in a anything if you're at home or in a anything if you're at home or in a studio or in a writing studio or studio or in a writing studio or studio or in a writing studio or somewhere writing then you're just somewhere writing then you're just somewhere writing then you're just doodling

doodling doodling that's how songs get made you know that's how songs get made you know that's how songs get made you know really is just where you just doodle really is just where you just doodle really is just where you just doodle around and you don't you're not thinking around and you don't you're not thinking around and you don't you're not thinking about anything else. So the thing about about anything else. So the thing about about anything else. So the thing about writing songs is because popular songs writing songs is because popular songs writing songs is because popular songs are really quite are really quite are really quite um I mean they're obviously really short um I mean they're obviously really short um I mean they're obviously really short so so so which is due to the length of the 78 which is due to the length of the 78 which is due to the length of the 78 record creation arbitrary reason. record creation arbitrary reason. record creation arbitrary reason. Yeah the technology imposed this thing Yeah the technology imposed this thing Yeah the technology imposed this thing on it. I think that's anyway it doesn't on it. I think that's anyway it doesn't on it. I think that's anyway it doesn't really matter that's what it is you know really matter that's what it is you know really matter that's what it is you know it's 3 minutes 4 minutes maximum it's 3 minutes 4 minutes maximum it's 3 minutes 4 minutes maximum something like this so so it's not going something like this so so it's not going something like this so so it's not going to be that much uh and and it can be to be that much uh and and it can be to be that much uh and and it can be quite complex musically but lyrically quite complex musically but lyrically quite complex musically but lyrically how much lyrics are you going to really how much lyrics are you going to really how much lyrics are you going to really stick in so musically it's it you know stick in so musically it's it you know stick in so musically it's it you know you can just doodle your doodle your way you can just doodle your doodle your way you can just doodle your doodle your way through this so while your mind is free through this so while your mind is free through this so while your mind is free and you're having fun with it then And I and you're having fun with it then And I and you're having fun with it then And I think that's the most interesting think that's the most interesting think that's the most interesting part of the process. And and I think I part of the process. And and I think I part of the process. And and I think I think having having fun is not like I think having having fun is not like I think having having fun is not like I don't mean you're all standing around don't mean you're all standing around don't mean you're all standing around drinking and like shouting and jumping drinking and like shouting and jumping drinking and like shouting and jumping up and down, but I mean your mind is not up and down, but I mean your mind is not up and down, but I mean your mind is not really being serious. It's it's playful.

really being serious. It's it's playful. really being serious. It's it's playful. Playful is a better word than fun. So Playful is a better word than fun. So Playful is a better word than fun. So you can be playful and then So if you're you can be playful and then So if you're you can be playful and then So if you're playful, you can you can just let your playful, you can you can just let your playful, you can you can just let your mind just go this way, that way. If not, mind just go this way, that way. If not, mind just go this way, that way. If not, and don't be worried if not if nothing and don't be worried if not if nothing and don't be worried if not if nothing happens, nothing happens. Something will happens, nothing happens. Something will happens, nothing happens. Something will happen later or tomorrow. happen later or tomorrow. happen later or tomorrow. >> I um saw was watching the video for um >> I um saw was watching the video for um >> I um saw was watching the video for um In the Stars recently, which is the one In the Stars recently, which is the one In the Stars recently, which is the one where they use the Ding technology for where they use the Ding technology for where they use the Ding technology for you guys, and I actually thought it was you guys, and I actually thought it was you guys, and I actually thought it was sort of an um sort of an um sort of an um >> like a conceptually interesting choice >> like a conceptually interesting choice >> like a conceptually interesting choice for a variety of reasons. One of which for a variety of reasons. One of which for a variety of reasons. One of which is that, you know, I I think of one of is that, you know, I I think of one of is that, you know, I I think of one of the sort of lifeaffirming things about the sort of lifeaffirming things about the sort of lifeaffirming things about the Rolling Stones is that you you've the Rolling Stones is that you you've the Rolling Stones is that you you've been sort of defiant in terms of like been sort of defiant in terms of like been sort of defiant in terms of like what aging means. You know, you're still what aging means. You know, you're still what aging means. You know, you're still out there doing it and then doing the out there doing it and then doing the out there doing it and then doing the deaging. I was like, that's kind of an deaging. I was like, that's kind of an deaging. I was like, that's kind of an an interesting um uh uh choice to take. an interesting um uh uh choice to take. an interesting um uh uh choice to take. But, you know, I think the an an But, you know, I think the an an But, you know, I think the an an opposite view of of the band as being opposite view of of the band as being opposite view of of the band as being like defiant uh defying aging and and like defiant uh defying aging and and like defiant uh defying aging and and still being out there is that, you know, still being out there is that, you know, still being out there is that, you know, you guys all have Peter Pan complexes or you guys all have Peter Pan complexes or you guys all have Peter Pan complexes or something like that.

something like that. something like that. >> But but for but I want to know what you >> But but for but I want to know what you >> But but for but I want to know what you find like interesting or or hard to to find like interesting or or hard to to find like interesting or or hard to to reckon with in terms of aging or like reckon with in terms of aging or like reckon with in terms of aging or like what's what's good about getting older? what's what's good about getting older? what's what's good about getting older? What's less good? And I I don't just What's less good? And I I don't just What's less good? And I I don't just mean like I don't just mean physically, mean like I don't just mean physically, mean like I don't just mean physically, but metaphysically, too. but metaphysically, too. but metaphysically, too. There's nothing good about it. There's nothing good about it. There's nothing good about it. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> No >> No >> No >> wisdom. No, >> wisdom. No, >> wisdom. No, >> nothing. You don't get wisdom. You >> nothing. You don't get wisdom. You >> nothing. You don't get wisdom. You forget everything. Forgot all my wisdom. forget everything. Forgot all my wisdom. forget everything. Forgot all my wisdom. I might have had couple of pearls I might have had couple of pearls I might have had couple of pearls dropped, but but I think I probably dropped, but but I think I probably dropped, but but I think I probably forgotten what they are. No. So, no, forgotten what they are. No. So, no, forgotten what they are. No. So, no, it's not No, it's not particularly um it's not No, it's not particularly um it's not No, it's not particularly um >> um pleasant. And uh of course, you can't >> um pleasant. And uh of course, you can't >> um pleasant. And uh of course, you can't do things as quickly as you want to and do things as quickly as you want to and do things as quickly as you want to and all that sort of thing. And uh all that sort of thing. And uh all that sort of thing. And uh physically physically you can't do physically physically you can't do physically physically you can't do things that you would like to do. You things that you would like to do. You things that you would like to do. You got to be you have to be more careful. I got to be you have to be more careful. I got to be you have to be more careful. I you can still do them but you have to be you can still do them but you have to be you can still do them but you have to be bit more careful when you do them. You bit more careful when you do them. You bit more careful when you do them. You know when if you're playing goalie in know when if you're playing goalie in know when if you're playing goalie in the football team and and you you okay the football team and and you you okay the football team and and you you okay you're going go put you in goal a lot.

you're going go put you in goal a lot. you're going go put you in goal a lot. >> I'm not really very good at it. >> I'm not really very good at it. >> I'm not really very good at it. >> It's a metaphor for aging being put in >> It's a metaphor for aging being put in >> It's a metaphor for aging being put in goal. goal. goal. >> You put in goal. Yeah. >> You put in goal. Yeah. >> You put in goal. Yeah. >> Um, I have another philosophical >> Um, I have another philosophical >> Um, I have another philosophical question. question. question. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And this one is about sex. And I'm not >> And this one is about sex. And I'm not >> And this one is about sex. And I'm not going to Don't worry going to Don't worry going to Don't worry >> subject. >> subject. >> subject. >> It's a big subject. I'm not going to ask >> It's a big subject. I'm not going to ask >> It's a big subject. I'm not going to ask you for any details. So don't don't you for any details. So don't don't you for any details. So don't don't worry. It's a it is sort of so so you're worry. It's a it is sort of so so you're worry. It's a it is sort of so so you're you're you're you're >> you know, you're you have publicly been >> you know, you're you have publicly been >> you know, you're you have publicly been identified with sex for a long time, identified with sex for a long time, identified with sex for a long time, like a sex symbol. You write songs that like a sex symbol. You write songs that like a sex symbol. You write songs that are heavily sexual. You know, you're are heavily sexual. You know, you're are heavily sexual. You know, you're like an an avatar of sexiness. You know, like an an avatar of sexiness. You know, like an an avatar of sexiness. You know, I don't think I'm I'm speaking out of I don't think I'm I'm speaking out of I don't think I'm I'm speaking out of turn by saying turn by saying turn by saying >> drugs and rock and roll were going, >> drugs and rock and roll were going, >> drugs and rock and roll were going, >> right? You you have a you know, a >> right? You you have a you know, a >> right? You you have a you know, a reputation as sort of a a libertine reputation as sort of a a libertine reputation as sort of a a libertine maybe and and but that's outside maybe and and but that's outside maybe and and but that's outside perspective. But I wouldn't be surprised perspective. But I wouldn't be surprised perspective. But I wouldn't be surprised if you know you also have had like sort if you know you also have had like sort if you know you also have had like sort of a put sex as like central to your of a put sex as like central to your of a put sex as like central to your identity over the years and I wonder how identity over the years and I wonder how identity over the years and I wonder how has your thinking about sex changed over has your thinking about sex changed over has your thinking about sex changed over time because it changes for everyone.

time because it changes for everyone. time because it changes for everyone. So, how has it changed for you, Mick So, how has it changed for you, Mick So, how has it changed for you, Mick Jagger? Jagger? Jagger? >> Well, it's really difficult and I don't >> Well, it's really difficult and I don't >> Well, it's really difficult and I don't know the answer, honestly. It's it it's know the answer, honestly. It's it it's know the answer, honestly. It's it it's a very good question and people always a very good question and people always a very good question and people always say that when they're thinking about say that when they're thinking about say that when they're thinking about what the [ __ ] am I going to say to him. what the [ __ ] am I going to say to him. what the [ __ ] am I going to say to him. Uh but but but but Uh but but but but Uh but but but but I don't really know. I really don't know I don't really know. I really don't know I don't really know. I really don't know the answer. I'd have to re you know, you the answer. I'd have to re you know, you the answer. I'd have to re you know, you you ask me these questions that it's a you ask me these questions that it's a you ask me these questions that it's a really hard question and and I don't really hard question and and I don't really hard question and and I don't know the answer. I could if we sat down know the answer. I could if we sat down know the answer. I could if we sat down and we weren't recording this and we and we weren't recording this and we and we weren't recording this and we weren't doing an interview, we could weren't doing an interview, we could weren't doing an interview, we could talk about how that would work and you'd talk about how that would work and you'd talk about how that would work and you'd have to tell me how it worked for you have to tell me how it worked for you have to tell me how it worked for you because we could compare experiences. because we could compare experiences. because we could compare experiences. But, you know, But, you know, But, you know, >> could we? >> could we? >> could we? >> But yeah, probably because that's how >> But yeah, probably because that's how >> But yeah, probably because that's how you get insights, you know. I mean, if you get insights, you know. I mean, if you get insights, you know. I mean, if you're just talking about yourself like you're just talking about yourself like you're just talking about yourself like a public person, it's weird. Um the only a public person, it's weird. Um the only a public person, it's weird. Um the only thing I will say is that that that thing I will say is that that that thing I will say is that that that through your throughout your life your through your throughout your life your through your throughout your life your attitude to sex changes and your sexual attitude to sex changes and your sexual attitude to sex changes and your sexual taste change in in one's life. Sex is taste change in in one's life. Sex is taste change in in one's life. Sex is not a fixed point. So that's what I not a fixed point. So that's what I not a fixed point. So that's what I think obviously everybody's different think obviously everybody's different think obviously everybody's different but I would like care I would say and but I would like care I would say and but I would like care I would say and I'm not this is not my sort of uh area I'm not this is not my sort of uh area I'm not this is not my sort of uh area of expertise honestly of expertise honestly of expertise honestly because we're into areas of of human because we're into areas of of human because we're into areas of of human psychology psychology psychology sexual drive uh all this stuff is all sexual drive uh all this stuff is all sexual drive uh all this stuff is all pop psychology people everyone's read a

pop psychology people everyone's read a pop psychology people everyone's read a bit about it but do they know about it bit about it but do they know about it bit about it but do they know about it but my observation is that that you that but my observation is that that you that but my observation is that that you that your attitudes to sex are different as your attitudes to sex are different as your attitudes to sex are different as you you you as in different parts of your life. as in different parts of your life. as in different parts of your life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean your orientation your sexual >> I mean your orientation your sexual >> I mean your orientation your sexual orientation may change it. It may change orientation may change it. It may change orientation may change it. It may change completely or it may change. Oh, or or completely or it may change. Oh, or or completely or it may change. Oh, or or or avenues might open up to you that you or avenues might open up to you that you or avenues might open up to you that you hadn't realized or they or you or or you hadn't realized or they or you or or you hadn't realized or they or you or or you might close avenues that have opened up might close avenues that have opened up might close avenues that have opened up because you don't like them or you tried because you don't like them or you tried because you don't like them or you tried something that you like for a couple of something that you like for a couple of something that you like for a couple of years and then you decide, oh, years and then you decide, oh, years and then you decide, oh, and and it's like other tastes. It's and and it's like other tastes. It's and and it's like other tastes. It's like taste in art, you know, that you like taste in art, you know, that you like taste in art, you know, that you when you're very young, you might like when you're very young, you might like when you're very young, you might like these kind of pictures and then when these kind of pictures and then when these kind of pictures and then when you're a bit older, you might change you're a bit older, you might change you're a bit older, you might change your taste in art. So, I'm not saying your taste in art. So, I'm not saying your taste in art. So, I'm not saying sex is like art. Well, I am. What I'm sex is like art. Well, I am. What I'm sex is like art. Well, I am. What I'm saying is your but but that's a question saying is your but but that's a question saying is your but but that's a question of taste, but your why is your taste of taste, but your why is your taste of taste, but your why is your taste changed? You know what, right? changed? You know what, right? changed? You know what, right? >> There's something is it because of >> There's something is it because of >> There's something is it because of knowledge or is it just because you're knowledge or is it just because you're knowledge or is it just because you're bored with it, you know? Do you know or bored with it, you know? Do you know or bored with it, you know? Do you know or is it a combination of all these things?

is it a combination of all these things? is it a combination of all these things? You know, so your your taste in your You know, so your your taste in your You know, so your your taste in your literally taste in food changed. So when literally taste in food changed. So when literally taste in food changed. So when you're really young and you like you're really young and you like you're really young and you like alcohol, you drink sweet things alcohol, you drink sweet things alcohol, you drink sweet things normally. You know, when you you like normally. You know, when you you like normally. You know, when you you like sweet wine, oh that's like great. And sweet wine, oh that's like great. And sweet wine, oh that's like great. And then then someone tells you that's not then then someone tells you that's not then then someone tells you that's not really you shouldn't be drinking that. really you shouldn't be drinking that. really you shouldn't be drinking that. You know, you should drink this. And you You know, you should drink this. And you You know, you should drink this. And you try that. I really don't like that. I'll try that. I really don't like that. I'll try that. I really don't like that. I'll try it. You know, like when we were try it. You know, like when we were try it. You know, like when we were really teenage, when we were teenagers, really teenage, when we were teenagers, really teenage, when we were teenagers, we like rock music, but we other other we like rock music, but we other other we like rock music, but we other other more snobbish people say, "You should more snobbish people say, "You should more snobbish people say, "You should listen to this j you should listen to listen to this j you should listen to listen to this j you should listen to this jazz, you know, you listen to jazz, this jazz, you know, you listen to jazz, this jazz, you know, you listen to jazz, you know, it's more intellectual, you you know, it's more intellectual, you you know, it's more intellectual, you know, than so, know, than so, know, than so, so that in Tom Stopard's play, the real so that in Tom Stopard's play, the real so that in Tom Stopard's play, the real thing, he's he's an intellectual writer thing, he's he's an intellectual writer thing, he's he's an intellectual writer is almost Tom and but he's going on this is almost Tom and but he's going on this is almost Tom and but he's going on this program called Desert Island Disc This program called Desert Island Disc This program called Desert Island Disc This is a a program where you choose records is a a program where you choose records is a a program where you choose records to take with you on your desert island to take with you on your desert island to take with you on your desert island and that's all you that's the only music and that's all you that's the only music and that's all you that's the only music you can have. And he he says but all I you can have. And he he says but all I you can have. And he he says but all I like is like to do Ron Ron and he's he's like is like to do Ron Ron and he's he's like is like to do Ron Ron and he's he's an intellectual. So he says they expect an intellectual. So he says they expect an intellectual. So he says they expect me to do Shernburg and Beethovven and me to do Shernburg and Beethovven and me to do Shernburg and Beethovven and and so so and so so and so so he's an intellectual. So it's it's this he's an intellectual. So it's it's this he's an intellectual. So it's it's this thing of being an intellectual. So you thing of being an intellectual. So you thing of being an intellectual. So you say like but yeah pay me that jazz music say like but yeah pay me that jazz music say like but yeah pay me that jazz music you know. Okay, Disney Gillespie. Play you know. Okay, Disney Gillespie. Play you know. Okay, Disney Gillespie. Play me Disney Gillespie. Okay, do I really me Disney Gillespie. Okay, do I really me Disney Gillespie. Okay, do I really like that or do I like Chuck Barry? You like that or do I like Chuck Barry? You like that or do I like Chuck Barry? You know what I mean? It's like, know what I mean? It's like, know what I mean? It's like, >> well, I I'll start to appreciate it, you >> well, I I'll start to appreciate it, you >> well, I I'll start to appreciate it, you know? And we used to like play the know? And we used to like play the know? And we used to like play the modern jazz quartet, you know?

modern jazz quartet, you know? modern jazz quartet, you know? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. I I used to go and see the I used >> Yeah. I I used to go and see the I used >> Yeah. I I used to go and see the I used to go and see the J modern jazz quartet to go and see the J modern jazz quartet to go and see the J modern jazz quartet in concert. I mean, it's expensive. in concert. I mean, it's expensive. in concert. I mean, it's expensive. Everyone's sitting down very seriously Everyone's sitting down very seriously Everyone's sitting down very seriously listening to it. The no is like standing listening to it. The no is like standing listening to it. The no is like standing up, you know. up, you know. up, you know. is is is >> talk about a rabbit hole. I asked you >> talk about a rabbit hole. I asked you >> talk about a rabbit hole. I asked you about sex. We ended up at the modern about sex. We ended up at the modern about sex. We ended up at the modern jazz jazz jazz >> court. How do I get out of that >> court. How do I get out of that >> court. How do I get out of that question? question? question? >> But I thought you gave a very, you know, >> But I thought you gave a very, you know, >> But I thought you gave a very, you know, I thought you gave a good answer. You I thought you gave a good answer. You I thought you gave a good answer. You said you didn't know how to answer, then said you didn't know how to answer, then said you didn't know how to answer, then you gave a good answer. you gave a good answer. you gave a good answer. I want to also know a little bit more I want to also know a little bit more I want to also know a little bit more about sort of how you see your musical about sort of how you see your musical about sort of how you see your musical evolution because I think I think it's evolution because I think I think it's evolution because I think I think it's fair to say that you know probably in fair to say that you know probably in fair to say that you know probably in that sort of magical period between 68 that sort of magical period between 68 that sort of magical period between 68 and 72 is the period when sort of what and 72 is the period when sort of what and 72 is the period when sort of what people expect a Rolling Stones album to people expect a Rolling Stones album to people expect a Rolling Stones album to sound like kind of got solidified. And sound like kind of got solidified. And sound like kind of got solidified. And and the new album, people say, you know, and the new album, people say, you know, and the new album, people say, you know, this it sounds like a Stones album, and this it sounds like a Stones album, and this it sounds like a Stones album, and I think they mean it sort of has the I think they mean it sort of has the I think they mean it sort of has the signifiers of the the classic Stones signifiers of the the classic Stones signifiers of the the classic Stones album. And I know there's been lots of album. And I know there's been lots of album. And I know there's been lots of experimenting with, you know, reggae, experimenting with, you know, reggae, experimenting with, you know, reggae, funk, disco over the years, but I I funk, disco over the years, but I I funk, disco over the years, but I I think it's it's true that there is a think it's it's true that there is a think it's it's true that there is a Rolling Stones Rolling Stones Rolling Stones >> sound. And as a as a sort of a creative, >> sound. And as a as a sort of a creative, >> sound. And as a as a sort of a creative, >> I can I can kind of argue against that >> I can I can kind of argue against that >> I can I can kind of argue against that in a way if I want to.

in a way if I want to. in a way if I want to. >> What What argument would you make? Well, >> What What argument would you make? Well, >> What What argument would you make? Well, >> I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, >> I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, >> I'm going to tell you that you're wrong, but but but >> No, but I can take another position, you >> No, but I can take another position, you >> No, but I can take another position, you know. know. know. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I mean, just for the sake of it, I could >> I mean, just for the sake of it, I could >> I mean, just for the sake of it, I could music because if we're talking about music because if we're talking about music because if we're talking about musicality, that that's what you're best musicality, that that's what you're best musicality, that that's what you're best known for. You know, that what the most known for. You know, that what the most known for. You know, that what the most people if they are not particularly people if they are not particularly people if they are not particularly vaguely interested but not very vaguely interested but not very vaguely interested but not very interested, um, then you're absolutely interested, um, then you're absolutely interested, um, then you're absolutely right. You know, that that's what you right. You know, that that's what you right. You know, that that's what you would say. But I could point out to lots would say. But I could point out to lots would say. But I could point out to lots of other I'm not a huge student of the of other I'm not a huge student of the of other I'm not a huge student of the Rolling Stones over you know I mean I Rolling Stones over you know I mean I Rolling Stones over you know I mean I can't I haven't got it all at my can't I haven't got it all at my can't I haven't got it all at my fingertips and lists of it. If I did I fingertips and lists of it. If I did I fingertips and lists of it. If I did I could point at them and say you see I could point at them and say you see I could point at them and say you see I could point to like could point to like could point to like >> miss you >> miss you >> miss you >> so many Yeah. I could say well that was >> so many Yeah. I could say well that was >> so many Yeah. I could say well that was >> hot stuff. >> hot stuff. >> hot stuff. >> That was that. Yeah. But then I could >> That was that. Yeah. But then I could >> That was that. Yeah. But then I could point at Lady Jane, you know, point at Lady Jane, you know, point at Lady Jane, you know, >> right? Like an Elis Elizabeth. >> right? Like an Elis Elizabeth. >> right? Like an Elis Elizabeth. >> Yeah. And I could point to his tears go >> Yeah. And I could point to his tears go >> Yeah. And I could point to his tears go by. I could point to Angie. by. I could point to Angie. by. I could point to Angie. >> Yeah. I could point I I mean that I >> Yeah. I could point I I mean that I >> Yeah. I could point I I mean that I could point to Painted Black, you know, could point to Painted Black, you know, could point to Painted Black, you know, even like Under my Thumb that someone even like Under my Thumb that someone even like Under my Thumb that someone played to me the other day. I mean, it's played to me the other day. I mean, it's played to me the other day. I mean, it's got it's vocally it's very me, but got it's vocally it's very me, but got it's vocally it's very me, but instrumentally and the way it's played instrumentally and the way it's played instrumentally and the way it's played is so light and it's so it's so sort of is so light and it's so it's so sort of is so light and it's so it's so sort of like it's not heavy at all. everyone's like it's not heavy at all. everyone's like it's not heavy at all. everyone's playing really lightly and so there's playing really lightly and so there's playing really lightly and so there's other versions of the band and that's other versions of the band and that's other versions of the band and that's what I think makes the band an what I think makes the band an what I think makes the band an interesting band. Obviously it's not the interesting band. Obviously it's not the interesting band. Obviously it's not the same people either.

same people either. same people either. >> Um you know she smiles sweetly is >> Um you know she smiles sweetly is >> Um you know she smiles sweetly is another one from another one from another one from >> Yeah. very old but but you know it's >> Yeah. very old but but you know it's >> Yeah. very old but but you know it's interesting that the songs that you interesting that the songs that you interesting that the songs that you noted are all songs that came be before noted are all songs that came be before noted are all songs that came be before I guess with the exception of Angie I guess with the exception of Angie I guess with the exception of Angie before that period I I suggested. before that period I I suggested. before that period I I suggested. >> Yes. But even after that period I can >> Yes. But even after that period I can >> Yes. But even after that period I can point out other ones. point out other ones. point out other ones. >> Yeah. But it's just I don't remember >> Yeah. But it's just I don't remember >> Yeah. But it's just I don't remember them as well, you know. But there's them as well, you know. But there's them as well, you know. But there's there's and there's not Elizabeth and there's and there's not Elizabeth and there's and there's not Elizabeth and ones, but there's there's many other ones, but there's there's many other ones, but there's there's many other ones. And you said Angie, that's not in ones. And you said Angie, that's not in ones. And you said Angie, that's not in that period. And there's lots and lots that period. And there's lots and lots that period. And there's lots and lots of others, you know, waiting on a of others, you know, waiting on a of others, you know, waiting on a friend. It's a it's a kind of rumba, you friend. It's a it's a kind of rumba, you friend. It's a it's a kind of rumba, you know, ballad rumba. I mean, it's it's know, ballad rumba. I mean, it's it's know, ballad rumba. I mean, it's it's it's, you know, it's like and very light it's, you know, it's like and very light it's, you know, it's like and very light with an alto saxophone lead. It's not with an alto saxophone lead. It's not with an alto saxophone lead. It's not really what you would expect. But are really what you would expect. But are really what you would expect. But are are there are there styles of music that are there are there styles of music that are there are there styles of music that just you know you maybe wanted to do or just you know you maybe wanted to do or just you know you maybe wanted to do or sort of like dream projects that you had sort of like dream projects that you had sort of like dream projects that you had in the back of your mind that you in the back of your mind that you in the back of your mind that you thought sort of because of maybe thought sort of because of maybe thought sort of because of maybe audience expectations or what you audience expectations or what you audience expectations or what you thought the band would be interested in thought the band would be interested in thought the band would be interested in that you didn't pursue?

that you didn't pursue? that you didn't pursue? >> Yeah. that well yes but you you can >> Yeah. that well yes but you you can >> Yeah. that well yes but you you can pursue them but you but you don't take pursue them but you but you don't take pursue them but you but you don't take them to the kind of doing a whole album them to the kind of doing a whole album them to the kind of doing a whole album of them you know but it you know I can of them you know but it you know I can of them you know but it you know I can say I like sambar music so I did say I like sambar music so I did say I like sambar music so I did sympathy for the devil have another sympathy for the devil have another sympathy for the devil have another never done another sambar but I listen never done another sambar but I listen never done another sambar but I listen to sambber all the time so I could say to sambber all the time so I could say to sambber all the time so I could say well I mean but no one's interested in well I mean but no one's interested in well I mean but no one's interested in me doing a whole sambar record I can't me doing a whole sambar record I can't me doing a whole sambar record I can't imagine anyone being interested I mean imagine anyone being interested I mean imagine anyone being interested I mean I'd like to do another sambar tune but I'd like to do another sambar tune but I'd like to do another sambar tune but but you don't want to pursue your whole but you don't want to pursue your whole but you don't want to pursue your whole interest in sambar uh down so far down interest in sambar uh down so far down interest in sambar uh down so far down the road. I mean, I'm interested. I I the road. I mean, I'm interested. I I the road. I mean, I'm interested. I I mean, I love Latin music of all kinds mean, I love Latin music of all kinds mean, I love Latin music of all kinds and and I that rhythmically speaking, and and I that rhythmically speaking, and and I that rhythmically speaking, there's so many different rhythms and there's so many different rhythms and there's so many different rhythms and and yeah, I' I I would like to pursue and yeah, I' I I would like to pursue and yeah, I' I I would like to pursue that and maybe I could have or should that and maybe I could have or should that and maybe I could have or should have pursued that more because I I'm have pursued that more because I I'm have pursued that more because I I'm really interested in those rhythms, you really interested in those rhythms, you really interested in those rhythms, you know? So, so yeah. So, but if you're in know? So, so yeah. So, but if you're in know? So, so yeah. So, but if you're in a rock band, you get to touch on them, a rock band, you get to touch on them, a rock band, you get to touch on them, but you don't get to fully explore them. but you don't get to fully explore them. but you don't get to fully explore them. Um, there's a beautiful version you did Um, there's a beautiful version you did Um, there's a beautiful version you did of a long black veil with the Chieftains of a long black veil with the Chieftains of a long black veil with the Chieftains probably 30 years ago and I thought, probably 30 years ago and I thought, probably 30 years ago and I thought, "Oh, it would have been it would be "Oh, it would have been it would be "Oh, it would have been it would be great to hear a MC Jagger album of like great to hear a MC Jagger album of like great to hear a MC Jagger album of like traditional uh Irish, British, and traditional uh Irish, British, and traditional uh Irish, British, and American folk tunes."

American folk tunes." American folk tunes." >> Yeah. I mean I've I've done that and uh >> Yeah. I mean I've I've done that and uh >> Yeah. I mean I've I've done that and uh I I mean the thing is that the all the I I mean the thing is that the all the I I mean the thing is that the all the members of the band of Keith and Brian members of the band of Keith and Brian members of the band of Keith and Brian and and and to some extent all like that music Ronny to some extent all like that music Ronny to some extent all like that music Ronny also I mean we it's kind of our kind of also I mean we it's kind of our kind of also I mean we it's kind of our kind of in a way it's our home music you know in a way it's our home music you know in a way it's our home music you know and even though the sort of 80% of our and even though the sort of 80% of our and even though the sort of 80% of our music is influenced by black culture music is influenced by black culture music is influenced by black culture which we have a huge debt to owe to to which we have a huge debt to owe to to which we have a huge debt to owe to to black music and everything. Uh black music and everything. Uh black music and everything. Uh we we also acknowledge our own roots in we we also acknowledge our own roots in we we also acknowledge our own roots in that in that other music you know by that in that other music you know by that in that other music you know by playing those songs you know I mean long playing those songs you know I mean long playing those songs you know I mean long back veil I long back veil was I think I back veil I long back veil was I think I back veil I long back veil was I think I heard Johnny Cash do that first but it heard Johnny Cash do that first but it heard Johnny Cash do that first but it sounds like an Irish or English song and sounds like an Irish or English song and sounds like an Irish or English song and I did it with the Chiefs which is an I did it with the Chiefs which is an I did it with the Chiefs which is an Irish was an Irish band but it's it's Irish was an Irish band but it's it's Irish was an Irish band but it's it's you know it it could be an English song you know it it could be an English song you know it it could be an English song or border ballad or you that I was we or border ballad or you that I was we or border ballad or you that I was we were all very interested. We're all were all very interested. We're all were all very interested. We're all brought up to read border ballads which brought up to read border ballads which brought up to read border ballads which are neither English nor Scottish nor are neither English nor Scottish nor are neither English nor Scottish nor Irish, but it's it they're there are Irish, but it's it they're there are Irish, but it's it they're there are amalgam of all of those things are very amalgam of all of those things are very amalgam of all of those things are very very similar background. I I'd also like very similar background. I I'd also like very similar background. I I'd also like to ask you about rock a little more to ask you about rock a little more to ask you about rock a little more broadly and and generally. You know, broadly and and generally. You know, broadly and and generally. You know, it's this it's this music that you've it's this it's this music that you've it's this it's this music that you've given your creative life to. And you given your creative life to. And you given your creative life to. And you know, the the still in 2026, the biggest

know, the the still in 2026, the biggest know, the the still in 2026, the biggest rock concert draws are like Gen Gen X rock concert draws are like Gen Gen X rock concert draws are like Gen Gen X bands and Baby Boomer bands. And I've bands and Baby Boomer bands. And I've bands and Baby Boomer bands. And I've seen data that actually suggest that seen data that actually suggest that seen data that actually suggest that catalog music, you know, older music has catalog music, you know, older music has catalog music, you know, older music has more streaming market share than younger more streaming market share than younger more streaming market share than younger and contin trend that way. And I think and contin trend that way. And I think and contin trend that way. And I think that even if you think about, you know, that even if you think about, you know, that even if you think about, you know, like the buzziest younger rock band of like the buzziest younger rock band of like the buzziest younger rock band of today, right, which is a band like today, right, which is a band like today, right, which is a band like Geese, I don't know if you're familiar Geese, I don't know if you're familiar Geese, I don't know if you're familiar with them, but with them, but with them, but >> there even even a band like that still >> there even even a band like that still >> there even even a band like that still kind of feels like a, you know, kind of feels like a, you know, kind of feels like a, you know, culturally marginal band to a certain culturally marginal band to a certain culturally marginal band to a certain extent. And and so my question to you is extent. And and so my question to you is extent. And and so my question to you is >> what do you mean culturally marginal? >> what do you mean culturally marginal? >> what do you mean culturally marginal? >> You know they're not in the center of >> You know they're not in the center of >> You know they're not in the center of the culture like you know it's they the culture like you know it's they the culture like you know it's they don't have don't have don't have >> well no but g I mean I was talked about >> well no but g I mean I was talked about >> well no but g I mean I was talked about them in an interview someone asked me I them in an interview someone asked me I them in an interview someone asked me I I I I >> everyone was talking about this band and >> everyone was talking about this band and >> everyone was talking about this band and I when I played them I thought it was I when I played them I thought it was I when I played them I thought it was going to be more like an indie band you going to be more like an indie band you going to be more like an indie band you know but it it was much more know but it it was much more know but it it was much more experimental than I thought which I experimental than I thought which I experimental than I thought which I thought was great you know I mean I thought was great you know I mean I thought was great you know I mean I liked it but it wasn't what I thought liked it but it wasn't what I thought liked it but it wasn't what I thought when what from people describing it to when what from people describing it to when what from people describing it to me or reading about it. So yeah, so me or reading about it. So yeah, so me or reading about it. So yeah, so that's very hard for a band as e that's very hard for a band as e that's very hard for a band as e experimental as that to be experimental as that to be experimental as that to be >> to break through >> to break through >> to break through >> be you know in a in a in a center of a >> be you know in a in a in a center of a >> be you know in a in a in a center of a mainstream music I think at this any mainstream music I think at this any mainstream music I think at this any time. I mean maybe in the 1970 it might time. I mean maybe in the 1970 it might time. I mean maybe in the 1970 it might have been but but now have been but but now have been but but now I wouldn't have thought so but anyway I I wouldn't have thought so but anyway I I wouldn't have thought so but anyway I I mean maybe there will be maybe I'm I mean maybe there will be maybe I'm I mean maybe there will be maybe I'm wrong. Do you have thoughts about the wrong. Do you have thoughts about the wrong. Do you have thoughts about the vitality of of rock music as a whole or

vitality of of rock music as a whole or vitality of of rock music as a whole or its place in the culture right now given its place in the culture right now given its place in the culture right now given that the most popular exponents tend to that the most popular exponents tend to that the most popular exponents tend to be older artists? It's kind of be older artists? It's kind of be older artists? It's kind of >> unusual. I think but despite the fact >> unusual. I think but despite the fact >> unusual. I think but despite the fact that you know um that you know um that you know um uh rock music as a as a as a genre is uh rock music as a as a as a genre is uh rock music as a as a as a genre is not really not really not really the the the mainstream center of music. It still has mainstream center of music. It still has mainstream center of music. It still has a lot of supporters and it still has a a lot of supporters and it still has a a lot of supporters and it still has a lot of young teenage people that want to lot of young teenage people that want to lot of young teenage people that want to play it, you know, in, you know, in all play it, you know, in, you know, in all play it, you know, in, you know, in all kinds of forms of it, you know, and you kinds of forms of it, you know, and you kinds of forms of it, you know, and you hope that it evolves, you know. Rap was hope that it evolves, you know. Rap was hope that it evolves, you know. Rap was kind of the center of our music like 20 kind of the center of our music like 20 kind of the center of our music like 20 years ago and now it's like rap is not years ago and now it's like rap is not years ago and now it's like rap is not the force it once was really, but the force it once was really, but the force it once was really, but everyone incorporates it, you know, you everyone incorporates it, you know, you everyone incorporates it, you know, you incorporate it into everything. incorporate it into everything. incorporate it into everything. It's it's one of the strands of popular It's it's one of the strands of popular It's it's one of the strands of popular music like rock is like you know rap is music like rock is like you know rap is music like rock is like you know rap is like straight pop is like all these like straight pop is like all these like straight pop is like all these things. So we have all these strands in things. So we have all these strands in things. So we have all these strands in popular music um that really popular music um that really popular music um that really I I wonder you know it's really rather I I wonder you know it's really rather I I wonder you know it's really rather artificial artificial artificial a lot of times when we describe music. I a lot of times when we describe music. I a lot of times when we describe music. I didn't we touched on this before in our didn't we touched on this before in our didn't we touched on this before in our earlier conversation. So it's it it it's earlier conversation. So it's it it it's earlier conversation. So it's it it it's a marketable a marketable a marketable when you have to market things you you when you have to market things you you when you have to market things you you want to tell people what they are you want to tell people what they are you want to tell people what they are you know so that so this this is mint know so that so this this is mint know so that so this this is mint flavored okay so everyone normally likes

flavored okay so everyone normally likes flavored okay so everyone normally likes that you know so it's mint flavored ice that you know so it's mint flavored ice that you know so it's mint flavored ice cream it's mint flavored this it's mint cream it's mint flavored this it's mint cream it's mint flavored this it's mint so you put the genre mint I'm selling so you put the genre mint I'm selling so you put the genre mint I'm selling mint flavored products it's a bit like mint flavored products it's a bit like mint flavored products it's a bit like that music so that you that music so that you that music so that you >> so people know what they're getting and >> so people know what they're getting and >> so people know what they're getting and you you you >> they know what they're getting you So >> they know what they're getting you So >> they know what they're getting you So you don't want to scare them. That's so you don't want to scare them. That's so you don't want to scare them. That's so we've got cut up all our genres in like we've got cut up all our genres in like we've got cut up all our genres in like little slices. But the reality is that little slices. But the reality is that little slices. But the reality is that most musicians appreciate all kinds of most musicians appreciate all kinds of most musicians appreciate all kinds of music. So what I'm saying is is there's music. So what I'm saying is is there's music. So what I'm saying is is there's a lot of music has a lot of history and a lot of music has a lot of history and a lot of music has a lot of history and it shouldn't really be be by intelligent it shouldn't really be be by intelligent it shouldn't really be be by intelligent people shouldn't be slicing in little people shouldn't be slicing in little people shouldn't be slicing in little bits and say I only like this bit. You bits and say I only like this bit. You bits and say I only like this bit. You know I like folk music. What does that know I like folk music. What does that know I like folk music. What does that mean? Doesn't mean anything. What's folk mean? Doesn't mean anything. What's folk mean? Doesn't mean anything. What's folk music? All these invented things, you music? All these invented things, you music? All these invented things, you know, know, know, >> right? They're arbitrary distinctions. >> right? They're arbitrary distinctions. >> right? They're arbitrary distinctions. >> They are. >> They are. >> They are. >> Yeah. Uh I saw a quote from Keith the >> Yeah. Uh I saw a quote from Keith the >> Yeah. Uh I saw a quote from Keith the other day saying, you know, the band had other day saying, you know, the band had other day saying, you know, the band had probably um is probably not going to be probably um is probably not going to be probably um is probably not going to be able to do long tours anymore. That able to do long tours anymore. That able to do long tours anymore. That there might be, you know, there's hopes there might be, you know, there's hopes there might be, you know, there's hopes to do residencies and things like that.

to do residencies and things like that. to do residencies and things like that. And who I don't know how you think, but And who I don't know how you think, but And who I don't know how you think, but do do you you must have some doubt about do do you you must have some doubt about do do you you must have some doubt about whether or not the Rolling Stones will whether or not the Rolling Stones will whether or not the Rolling Stones will ever go on a ever go on a ever go on a >> class. I have doubt about it when when I >> class. I have doubt about it when when I >> class. I have doubt about it when when I hear that, you know, I I have doubt hear that, you know, I I have doubt hear that, you know, I I have doubt about it. I don't mind doing at all. I about it. I don't mind doing at all. I about it. I don't mind doing at all. I mean, residencies mean, residencies mean, residencies are if you can't if you could you can't are if you can't if you could you can't are if you can't if you could you can't do any shows and you can't go anywhere, do any shows and you can't go anywhere, do any shows and you can't go anywhere, then you have to do residences. then you have to do residences. then you have to do residences. Obviously, you can't go you got to go to Obviously, you can't go you got to go to Obviously, you can't go you got to go to the you have to go to the arena. You got the you have to go to the arena. You got the you have to go to the arena. You got you're not going to do it from your you're not going to do it from your you're not going to do it from your bedroom, but I suppose you could, but bedroom, but I suppose you could, but bedroom, but I suppose you could, but you've got to go somewhere. So I say you've got to go somewhere. So I say you've got to go somewhere. So I say well you you can't just do so if Harry well you you can't just do so if Harry well you you can't just do so if Harry Styles says he's doing residences but Styles says he's doing residences but Styles says he's doing residences but he's doing London Amsterdam you know and he's doing London Amsterdam you know and he's doing London Amsterdam you know and so on and so is a tour you know it's not so on and so is a tour you know it's not so on and so is a tour you know it's not only London do you know what I mean you only London do you know what I mean you only London do you know what I mean you >> but do you think the Stones will do >> but do you think the Stones will do >> but do you think the Stones will do another you know world so that's all I'm another you know world so that's all I'm another you know world so that's all I'm saying I would hope so I'm I'm very saying I would hope so I'm I'm very saying I would hope so I'm I'm very pleased to be able to I want to do it pleased to be able to I want to do it pleased to be able to I want to do it I'm I'm I'm up for doing it I like I'm I'm I'm up for doing it I like I'm I'm I'm up for doing it I like touring so but the thing is the only touring so but the thing is the only touring so but the thing is the only thing about doing residences it makes it thing about doing residences it makes it thing about doing residences it makes it for the people that want to come and see for the people that want to come and see for the people that want to come and see you. It makes it much more expensive. It you. It makes it much more expensive. It you. It makes it much more expensive. It really does. I mean, think about it. You really does. I mean, think about it. You really does. I mean, think about it. You have to you have to travel. You have to have to you have to travel. You have to have to you have to travel. You have to get a hotel and you have to buy a get a hotel and you have to buy a get a hotel and you have to buy a ticket, which is not going to be cheap, ticket, which is not going to be cheap, ticket, which is not going to be cheap, you know. So, that I mean, it'll be less you know. So, that I mean, it'll be less you know. So, that I mean, it'll be less cheap. It'll be cheaper than the World cheap. It'll be cheaper than the World cheap. It'll be cheaper than the World Cup Cup Cup in the United States. It was much easier in the United States. It was much easier in the United States. It was much easier when it was in Germany cuz Germany is a

when it was in Germany cuz Germany is a when it was in Germany cuz Germany is a smaller country. smaller country. smaller country. Do you think Do you think you'll know Do you think Do you think you'll know Do you think Do you think you'll know when you've walked off the stage with when you've walked off the stage with when you've walked off the stage with the Rolling Stones for the last time? the Rolling Stones for the last time? the Rolling Stones for the last time? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> I don't think you'll ever know. Maybe I >> I don't think you'll ever know. Maybe I >> I don't think you'll ever know. Maybe I have. have. have. >> It's true. Maybe it's happened. >> It's true. Maybe it's happened. >> It's true. Maybe it's happened. >> I don't know. You never know. You could >> I don't know. You never know. You could >> I don't know. You never know. You could be I get run over by a bus outside of my be I get run over by a bus outside of my be I get run over by a bus outside of my house. You never really know, do you? house. You never really know, do you? house. You never really know, do you? You don't know what's going to happen to You don't know what's going to happen to You don't know what's going to happen to you in life. Um, but I mean, I you in life. Um, but I mean, I you in life. Um, but I mean, I personally hope to to be able to tour personally hope to to be able to tour personally hope to to be able to tour again. I I love touring. I like going again. I I love touring. I like going again. I I love touring. I like going places, you know. I like meeting people. places, you know. I like meeting people. places, you know. I like meeting people. I like to go into I like to go to weird I like to go into I like to go to weird I like to go into I like to go to weird countries, you know, and do shows. I was countries, you know, and do shows. I was countries, you know, and do shows. I was I was doing a promotion with Indonesia I was doing a promotion with Indonesia I was doing a promotion with Indonesia and that I did a show in Indonesia once and that I did a show in Indonesia once and that I did a show in Indonesia once on my own which was so crazy. It was so on my own which was so crazy. It was so on my own which was so crazy. It was so hot. It was unbelievable. People about hot. It was unbelievable. People about hot. It was unbelievable. People about Europe's heat wave. It was so hot and I Europe's heat wave. It was so hot and I Europe's heat wave. It was so hot and I was out there and it was daytime. Didn't was out there and it was daytime. Didn't was out there and it was daytime. Didn't have any lights. I What am I going to have any lights. I What am I going to have any lights. I What am I going to wear? And this guy reminded me of my wear? And this guy reminded me of my wear? And this guy reminded me of my show in Indonesia. And I said, "Yeah, show in Indonesia. And I said, "Yeah, show in Indonesia. And I said, "Yeah, I'd do a show in Indonesia." that you I'd do a show in Indonesia." that you I'd do a show in Indonesia." that you know it's I it's really I love doing know it's I it's really I love doing know it's I it's really I love doing that. I love going to India and we one that. I love going to India and we one that. I love going to India and we one we did two shows in India you know now we did two shows in India you know now we did two shows in India you know now India is a big market India is a big market India is a big market >> can I ask you a completely tangential >> can I ask you a completely tangential >> can I ask you a completely tangential random question um I was looking and now random question um I was looking and now random question um I was looking and now so the fact that I couldn't find it so the fact that I couldn't find it so the fact that I couldn't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I could not find any quote or record of could not find any quote or record of could not find any quote or record of you commenting on singing backing vocals you commenting on singing backing vocals you commenting on singing backing vocals on Carly Simons you're so vain no I on Carly Simons you're so vain no I on Carly Simons you're so vain no I can't find it anywhere and I but can't find it anywhere and I but can't find it anywhere and I but >> you say I remember doing it

>> you say I remember doing it >> you say I remember doing it >> but Did when did you realize that some >> but Did when did you realize that some >> but Did when did you realize that some people thought the song was about you? people thought the song was about you? people thought the song was about you? >> Why would it be about me when I'm >> Why would it be about me when I'm >> Why would it be about me when I'm singing on it? singing on it? singing on it? >> I know it doesn't make sense, but people >> I know it doesn't make sense, but people >> I know it doesn't make sense, but people people think that's what it was. people think that's what it was. people think that's what it was. >> But that was a big thing, wasn't it? You >> But that was a big thing, wasn't it? You >> But that was a big thing, wasn't it? You know, because she would never reveal who know, because she would never reveal who know, because she would never reveal who it was about. And then she it was about. And then she it was about. And then she >> I never thought to ask. Yeah. I never >> I never thought to ask. Yeah. I never >> I never thought to ask. Yeah. I never thought I was just a song. It sounds thought I was just a song. It sounds thought I was just a song. It sounds like a good title. It was just a song. like a good title. It was just a song. like a good title. It was just a song. I'm just the backing vocalist cuz I knew I'm just the backing vocalist cuz I knew I'm just the backing vocalist cuz I knew the producer whose name I'm now going to the producer whose name I'm now going to the producer whose name I'm now going to forget. forget. forget. >> Richard Perry. Oh, there you go. Yep. >> Richard Perry. Oh, there you go. Yep. >> Richard Perry. Oh, there you go. Yep. >> Richard Perry and was a guy I knew, you >> Richard Perry and was a guy I knew, you >> Richard Perry and was a guy I knew, you know, and he he was in London. He just know, and he he was in London. He just know, and he he was in London. He just phoned me up and said, "Can you can do phoned me up and said, "Can you can do phoned me up and said, "Can you can do the background?" Because I and I love the background?" Because I and I love the background?" Because I and I love doing those sort of things, especially doing those sort of things, especially doing those sort of things, especially with, you know, if it's a female, you're with, you know, if it's a female, you're with, you know, if it's a female, you're the male person, you know what I mean? the male person, you know what I mean? the male person, you know what I mean? It's slightly different doing it with It's slightly different doing it with It's slightly different doing it with men, but I don't care. So, I just went men, but I don't care. So, I just went men, but I don't care. So, I just went along and did it. I thought it was a along and did it. I thought it was a along and did it. I thought it was a great song, you know, and uh it was big great song, you know, and uh it was big great song, you know, and uh it was big hit for her. And I was never created to hit for her. And I was never created to hit for her. And I was never created to be the feature. These days I it'd be the be the feature. These days I it'd be the be the feature. These days I it'd be the feature, you know, be Carly Simon feature, you know, be Carly Simon feature, you know, be Carly Simon featuring Mit Jang in those. featuring Mit Jang in those. featuring Mit Jang in those. >> But you never said to her, you never >> But you never said to her, you never >> But you never said to her, you never said, "Who's this about?"

said, "Who's this about?" said, "Who's this about?" >> I'm louder than her on some of it. >> I'm louder than her on some of it. >> I'm louder than her on some of it. >> I know. In the chorus. Yeah. >> I know. In the chorus. Yeah. >> I know. In the chorus. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um Well, thank you for clearing that up. >> Um Well, thank you for clearing that up. >> Um Well, thank you for clearing that up. Now, we've now added to the sum total. Now, we've now added to the sum total. Now, we've now added to the sum total. >> We want to clear things up, while we're >> We want to clear things up, while we're >> We want to clear things up, while we're talking about cleaning things up. So, so talking about cleaning things up. So, so talking about cleaning things up. So, so I said to you at the beginning before we I said to you at the beginning before we I said to you at the beginning before we record, I said, "Well, now the record's record, I said, "Well, now the record's record, I said, "Well, now the record's been reviewed everywhere. A lot of been reviewed everywhere. A lot of been reviewed everywhere. A lot of reviews for it." And I got luri lots of reviews for it." And I got luri lots of reviews for it." And I got luri lots of nice reviews. It's It's weird how people nice reviews. It's It's weird how people nice reviews. It's It's weird how people though in they give you really I mean we though in they give you really I mean we though in they give you really I mean we it got it's gotten some great reviews it got it's gotten some great reviews it got it's gotten some great reviews and I'm really appreciative of that. and I'm really appreciative of that. and I'm really appreciative of that. >> Something's nagging at you. No, no, I'm >> Something's nagging at you. No, no, I'm >> Something's nagging at you. No, no, I'm not. It's not nagging. It's just that not. It's not nagging. It's just that not. It's not nagging. It's just that people then they hear some one word and people then they hear some one word and people then they hear some one word and they and but they don't really listen to they and but they don't really listen to they and but they don't really listen to the line. So it's like so MC Jagger has the line. So it's like so MC Jagger has the line. So it's like so MC Jagger has a go at Elon Musk. Well, you're not a go at Elon Musk. Well, you're not a go at Elon Musk. Well, you're not listening to the line. listening to the line. listening to the line. >> You're only listening to Musk. That's >> You're only listening to Musk. That's >> You're only listening to Musk. That's all you hear. Musk. He must be having a all you hear. Musk. He must be having a all you hear. Musk. He must be having a go at him. You I do call him mad. go at him. You I do call him mad. go at him. You I do call him mad. >> And he's the one person you name in on >> And he's the one person you name in on >> And he's the one person you name in on the whole album. No other person.

the whole album. No other person. the whole album. No other person. >> He's name checked. The only name. >> He's name checked. The only name. >> He's name checked. The only name. >> It seems like it would have some >> It seems like it would have some >> It seems like it would have some importance. But the funny thing is when importance. But the funny thing is when importance. But the funny thing is when I wrote that I was like I wrote that I was like I wrote that I was like it was I was thinking that he because of it was I was thinking that he because of it was I was thinking that he because of him they were able to get those him they were able to get those him they were able to get those astronauts back you know that was stuck astronauts back you know that was stuck astronauts back you know that was stuck because he provided the transportation because he provided the transportation because he provided the transportation cuz we NASA couldn't provide the the cuz we NASA couldn't provide the the cuz we NASA couldn't provide the the transportation. So that line the the transportation. So that line the the transportation. So that line the the line of the song is about when I was a line of the song is about when I was a line of the song is about when I was a kid I we used to want to go to Mars and kid I we used to want to go to Mars and kid I we used to want to go to Mars and everything and then and then I said who everything and then and then I said who everything and then and then I said who would trust who would you trust to get would trust who would you trust to get would trust who would you trust to get you into space and would you trust you into space and would you trust you into space and would you trust Boeing or was it NASA or was it Mad Boeing or was it NASA or was it Mad Boeing or was it NASA or was it Mad Mogul Mr. Musk? So what I'm it's really Mogul Mr. Musk? So what I'm it's really Mogul Mr. Musk? So what I'm it's really a sidewinding compliment because he was a sidewinding compliment because he was a sidewinding compliment because he was the one that I remembered was able to do the one that I remembered was able to do the one that I remembered was able to do that when the others couldn't. that when the others couldn't. that when the others couldn't. >> Yeah. Well that's what you get for using >> Yeah. Well that's what you get for using >> Yeah. Well that's what you get for using the adjective mad. That's the adjective mad. That's the adjective mad. That's >> well and mogul. >> well and mogul. >> well and mogul. >> And mogul. >> And mogul. >> And mogul. >> Mogul. Mogul doesn't always go down well >> Mogul. Mogul doesn't always go down well >> Mogul. Mogul doesn't always go down well either. You either. You either. You >> No one likes a mogul. >> No one likes a mogul. >> No one likes a mogul. >> No one likes a mogul. He's It's a It's a >> No one likes a mogul. He's It's a It's a >> No one likes a mogul. He's It's a It's a Persian word, but you know, nobody likes Persian word, but you know, nobody likes Persian word, but you know, nobody likes to be called it.

to be called it. to be called it. >> You know, I had asked you about the >> You know, I had asked you about the >> You know, I had asked you about the lyrics to Sway when we spoke the first lyrics to Sway when we spoke the first lyrics to Sway when we spoke the first time. I have another lyric question that time. I have another lyric question that time. I have another lyric question that I want to ask you. Um, my favorite I want to ask you. Um, my favorite I want to ask you. Um, my favorite Rolling Stone song, which I think is Rolling Stone song, which I think is Rolling Stone song, which I think is also the best Rolling Stone song, is You also the best Rolling Stone song, is You also the best Rolling Stone song, is You Can't Always Get What You Want. Can't Always Get What You Want. Can't Always Get What You Want. >> Yeah. And I think I think you know it's >> Yeah. And I think I think you know it's >> Yeah. And I think I think you know it's a simple sentiment but I actually think a simple sentiment but I actually think a simple sentiment but I actually think there's something profound in the chorus there's something profound in the chorus there's something profound in the chorus right which is you can't always get what right which is you can't always get what right which is you can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes you you want but if you try sometimes you you want but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need just might find you get what you need just might find you get what you need and and what's what's something that or and and what's what's something that or and and what's what's something that or the last thing that you really tried to the last thing that you really tried to the last thing that you really tried to get that you wanted to get that you get that you wanted to get that you get that you wanted to get that you couldn't find couldn't find couldn't find >> and you got what you need >> and you got what you need >> and you got what you need >> leads to leads to a personal leads to a >> leads to leads to a personal leads to a >> leads to leads to a personal leads to a personal wish. personal wish. personal wish. Sure. Sure. Sure. >> No, I think I I >> No, I think I I >> No, I think I I uh I I can't recall one that stands out uh I I can't recall one that stands out uh I I can't recall one that stands out honestly. honestly. honestly. >> Well, that's a good life, my friend. >> Well, that's a good life, my friend. >> Well, that's a good life, my friend. >> I mean, I'm sorry. >> I mean, I'm sorry. >> I mean, I'm sorry. >> No, it's I mean I obviously there's all >> No, it's I mean I obviously there's all >> No, it's I mean I obviously there's all kinds of things on daily life that you kinds of things on daily life that you kinds of things on daily life that you everyone's has frustrations.

everyone's has frustrations. everyone's has frustrations. Um, I mean I was very frustrated Um, I mean I was very frustrated Um, I mean I was very frustrated uh professionally for years that with uh professionally for years that with uh professionally for years that with the Rolling St. the Rolling St. the Rolling St. That was a huge frustration for me. That was a huge frustration for me. That was a huge frustration for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean and and and >> I mean and and and >> I mean and and and I solved it, I solved it, I solved it, >> you know, I solved it and I mean with >> you know, I solved it and I mean with >> you know, I solved it and I mean with everyone else's help obviously, but they everyone else's help obviously, but they everyone else's help obviously, but they had to agree to it, you know. It was had to agree to it, you know. It was had to agree to it, you know. It was like, huh? And I, you know, I mean, it's like, huh? And I, you know, I mean, it's like, huh? And I, you know, I mean, it's like, okay, um, that, but you know, it's like, okay, um, that, but you know, it's like, okay, um, that, but you know, it's like like like that was a huge frustration that I I'm I that was a huge frustration that I I'm I that was a huge frustration that I I'm I mean, you ask me these really difficult mean, you ask me these really difficult mean, you ask me these really difficult questions. I'm trying to come up with questions. I'm trying to come up with questions. I'm trying to come up with something to say it, but that was a huge something to say it, but that was a huge something to say it, but that was a huge frustration. And and and I if if you'd frustration. And and and I if if you'd frustration. And and and I if if you'd have interviewed me have interviewed me have interviewed me four years ago, I would have said that. four years ago, I would have said that. four years ago, I would have said that. >> There's another old clip I saw of you >> There's another old clip I saw of you >> There's another old clip I saw of you from a press conference, probably from a press conference, probably from a press conference, probably >> really old one. one of those because we >> really old one. one of those because we >> really old one. one of those because we don't press conferences for hundreds of don't press conferences for hundreds of don't press conferences for hundreds of years. years. years. >> Really old. I think maybe connected to a >> Really old. I think maybe connected to a >> Really old. I think maybe connected to a Madison Square Garden concert in the Madison Square Garden concert in the Madison Square Garden concert in the late 60s, something like that. And late 60s, something like that. And late 60s, something like that. And someone uh just asked, you know, just someone uh just asked, you know, just someone uh just asked, you know, just asks you some vague question like how asks you some vague question like how asks you some vague question like how how do you think about being in the how do you think about being in the how do you think about being in the Rolling Stones? And you describe the Rolling Stones? And you describe the Rolling Stones? And you describe the Rolling Stones as Rolling Stones as Rolling Stones as >> financially dissatisfied, uh you know, >> financially dissatisfied, uh you know, >> financially dissatisfied, uh you know, uh sexually satisfied, philosophically uh sexually satisfied, philosophically uh sexually satisfied, philosophically trying. Yeah, that's just a pat answer trying. Yeah, that's just a pat answer trying. Yeah, that's just a pat answer to a news conference in New York where to a news conference in New York where to a news conference in New York where you used to say people used to throw you you used to say people used to throw you you used to say people used to throw you just really dumb questions, but that was just really dumb questions, but that was just really dumb questions, but that was quite a good one.

quite a good one. quite a good one. >> Yeah, that was but so don't give me the >> Yeah, that was but so don't give me the >> Yeah, that was but so don't give me the pat answer in 2026. Where do you stand pat answer in 2026. Where do you stand pat answer in 2026. Where do you stand with those three things? with those three things? with those three things? >> My my interest in philosophy is >> My my interest in philosophy is >> My my interest in philosophy is superficial. superficial. superficial. >> Um I mean merely because I find it a >> Um I mean merely because I find it a >> Um I mean merely because I find it a really hard subject. I I I mean I really really hard subject. I I I mean I really really hard subject. I I I mean I really I I really find it difficult because I I I I really find it difficult because I I I I really find it difficult because I I need a teacher. I can't just do it from need a teacher. I can't just do it from need a teacher. I can't just do it from reading. I I can't. And when I was in reading. I I can't. And when I was in reading. I I can't. And when I was in college, I did some some philosophy college, I did some some philosophy college, I did some some philosophy courses and that's hundreds of years courses and that's hundreds of years courses and that's hundreds of years ago. And and I didn't really I don't I ago. And and I didn't really I don't I ago. And and I didn't really I don't I make one reference to the to in in the make one reference to the to in in the make one reference to the to in in the song um Oh, in Jealous Lover's there's a Plato Oh, in Jealous Lover's there's a Plato reference. reference. reference. >> Ah, Shadows on the Wall. >> Ah, Shadows on the Wall. >> Ah, Shadows on the Wall. >> Yes, you got it. Well done. Look at >> Yes, you got it. Well done. Look at >> Yes, you got it. Well done. Look at >> that. There you got it. So, yeah, but I >> that. There you got it. So, yeah, but I >> that. There you got it. So, yeah, but I But uh on my cave that's even more But uh on my cave that's even more But uh on my cave that's even more obvious. obvious. obvious. >> Um >> Um >> Um uh uh uh >> but I find it a really hard subject to >> but I find it a really hard subject to >> but I find it a really hard subject to educate myself into and I've recently educate myself into and I've recently educate myself into and I've recently read a couple of books. I'm really read a couple of books. I'm really read a couple of books. I'm really finding it hard and so and they're finding it hard and so and they're finding it hard and so and they're always always having so many arguments always always having so many arguments always always having so many arguments these philosophers and and they're these philosophers and and they're these philosophers and and they're always like disagreeing with their always like disagreeing with their always like disagreeing with their masters what and then the master masters what and then the master masters what and then the master disagrees with then the m I was reading disagrees with then the m I was reading disagrees with then the m I was reading this book on K and he so his he has this this book on K and he so his he has this this book on K and he so his he has this people I can't forget his name who then people I can't forget his name who then people I can't forget his name who then he writes a book they're attacking his he writes a book they're attacking his he writes a book they're attacking his own master and then then Kant replies to

own master and then then Kant replies to own master and then then Kant replies to him you know they're quite rude to each him you know they're quite rude to each him you know they're quite rude to each other and then they have to make up other and then they have to make up other and then they have to make up later and and and I and none of it I can later and and and I and none of it I can later and and and I and none of it I can understand what they're really talking understand what they're really talking understand what they're really talking about. You know, was Kant a Christian? about. You know, was Kant a Christian? about. You know, was Kant a Christian? >> I think >> I think >> I think >> was he an atheist? >> was he an atheist? >> was he an atheist? >> I think it's cool that you're reading >> I think it's cool that you're reading >> I think it's cool that you're reading Kant. Kant. Kant. >> Well, it's sort of vaguely fashionable. >> Well, it's sort of vaguely fashionable. >> Well, it's sort of vaguely fashionable. >> Um wait, but but so let's say Phil is >> Um wait, but but so let's say Phil is >> Um wait, but but so let's say Phil is still trying and let's just, you know, still trying and let's just, you know, still trying and let's just, you know, >> I'm sticking with that one. I'm still >> I'm sticking with that one. I'm still >> I'm sticking with that one. I'm still sticking with that 1965 quote. sticking with that 1965 quote. sticking with that 1965 quote. >> All right. Um Mick, you know what? But >> All right. Um Mick, you know what? But >> All right. Um Mick, you know what? But this is a corny way to end, but it's this is a corny way to end, but it's this is a corny way to end, but it's been a gas gas gas gas. been a gas gas gas gas. been a gas gas gas gas. >> Oh no, that's awful. Dave, that's >> Oh no, that's awful. Dave, that's >> Oh no, that's awful. Dave, that's terrible. I wish I wore a pink shirt. terrible. I wish I wore a pink shirt. terrible. I wish I wore a pink shirt. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate you so >> Thank you very much. I appreciate you so >> Thank you very much. I appreciate you so much. Thanks. Take care. much. Thanks. Take care. much. Thanks. Take care. >> Bye. >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. >> I'm Lulu Garcia Navaro. >> And I'm David Marques >> And I'm David Marques >> And I'm David Marques >> and we're the hosts of The Interview, an >> and we're the hosts of The Interview, an >> and we're the hosts of The Interview, an audio and video podcast from the New audio and video podcast from the New audio and video podcast from the New York Times. Every week we interview York Times. Every week we interview York Times. Every week we interview fascinating and influential people from fascinating and influential people from fascinating and influential people from all walks of life.

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