USS Liberty Survivor Reveals What Really Happened the Day Israel Attacked & the Lies Covering It Up

Mr. Lockwood, thank you very much for Mr. Lockwood, thank you very much for joining us. joining us. joining us. >> My pleasure. >> My pleasure. >> My pleasure. >> Tell us the USS Liberty. Many people >> Tell us the USS Liberty. Many people >> Tell us the USS Liberty. Many people have heard the name. They're aware have heard the name. They're aware have heard the name. They're aware there's a controversy about what there's a controversy about what there's a controversy about what happened to the ship in 1967. happened to the ship in 1967. happened to the ship in 1967. If you wouldn't mind starting at the If you wouldn't mind starting at the If you wouldn't mind starting at the beginning and telling us the story of beginning and telling us the story of beginning and telling us the story of the USS Liberty. the USS Liberty. the USS Liberty. >> Uh USS Liberty was a spy ship uh back in >> Uh USS Liberty was a spy ship uh back in >> Uh USS Liberty was a spy ship uh back in the 1960s. the 1960s. the 1960s. Several of the subsaran African Several of the subsaran African Several of the subsaran African countries had just won their countries had just won their countries had just won their independence from Great Britain, independence from Great Britain, independence from Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, France. Germany, Belgium, France. Germany, Belgium, France. There was a heavy influence both from There was a heavy influence both from There was a heavy influence both from the Soviet Union and from Cuba. Cubans the Soviet Union and from Cuba. Cubans the Soviet Union and from Cuba. Cubans had a lot of troops around the area. had a lot of troops around the area. had a lot of troops around the area. That entire area is very wealthy in That entire area is very wealthy in That entire area is very wealthy in natural resources, natural resources, natural resources, precious metals and the United States precious metals and the United States precious metals and the United States wanted to keep track of what was going wanted to keep track of what was going wanted to keep track of what was going on over there. Mind you, this is when on over there. Mind you, this is when on over there. Mind you, this is when satellites were pretty rudimentary. satellites were pretty rudimentary. satellites were pretty rudimentary. So, the best way to gather that So, the best way to gather that So, the best way to gather that information is get close. The USS information is get close. The USS information is get close. The USS Liberty was a World War II victory class Liberty was a World War II victory class Liberty was a World War II victory class freighter. Uh she was originally freighter. Uh she was originally freighter. Uh she was originally commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory.

commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory. commissioned as the SS Simmons Victory. She saw service as a cargo carrier She saw service as a cargo carrier She saw service as a cargo carrier during the Second World War. Mothball during the Second World War. Mothball during the Second World War. Mothball brought back out of mothballs for the brought back out of mothballs for the brought back out of mothballs for the Korean War. Ammunition carrier for the Korean War. Ammunition carrier for the Korean War. Ammunition carrier for the Korean War back into mothballs. Then in Korean War back into mothballs. Then in Korean War back into mothballs. Then in 1965 when the National Security Agency 1965 when the National Security Agency 1965 when the National Security Agency decided they needed vessels of that decided they needed vessels of that decided they needed vessels of that type, her hull was probably in the best type, her hull was probably in the best type, her hull was probably in the best condition of almost any of them that condition of almost any of them that condition of almost any of them that were in the Ghost fleet or the mothball were in the Ghost fleet or the mothball were in the Ghost fleet or the mothball fleet. fleet. fleet. She was brought out of commission. The She was brought out of commission. The She was brought out of commission. The US government spent $26 million US government spent $26 million US government spent $26 million in 1965 money in 1965 money in 1965 money equipping her with the latest in um equipping her with the latest in um equipping her with the latest in um intelligence collection. Uh we could intelligence collection. Uh we could intelligence collection. Uh we could suck up literally every frequency that suck up literally every frequency that suck up literally every frequency that was being used. We had aboard her the was being used. We had aboard her the was being used. We had aboard her the world's largest mobile computer, the world's largest mobile computer, the world's largest mobile computer, the UNIVAC 500. At that time, the world's UNIVAC 500. At that time, the world's UNIVAC 500. At that time, the world's largest. you could likely do about as largest. you could likely do about as largest. you could likely do about as much with your cell phone now, but much with your cell phone now, but much with your cell phone now, but technology has come a long ways in the technology has come a long ways in the technology has come a long ways in the last 60 years.

last 60 years. last 60 years. Um, she was equipped with linguists Um, she was equipped with linguists Um, she was equipped with linguists cruised up and down the west coast of cruised up and down the west coast of cruised up and down the west coast of Africa listening in on to whatever was Africa listening in on to whatever was Africa listening in on to whatever was going on. going on. going on. Um, as war appeared to be imminent Um, as war appeared to be imminent Um, as war appeared to be imminent between Israel and her neighbors in between Israel and her neighbors in between Israel and her neighbors in 1967. 1967. 1967. Um the neighbors included what was then Um the neighbors included what was then Um the neighbors included what was then called the United Arab Republic, called the United Arab Republic, called the United Arab Republic, primarily Egypt, uh Syria to a lesser primarily Egypt, uh Syria to a lesser primarily Egypt, uh Syria to a lesser extent some influence from Jordan and extent some influence from Jordan and extent some influence from Jordan and Libya. Libya. Libya. Um Um Um the administration the administration the administration sent some F4 photograph sent some F4 photograph sent some F4 photograph uh planes, high high performance uh planes, high high performance uh planes, high high performance uh photo intelligence planes to Terrone uh photo intelligence planes to Terrone uh photo intelligence planes to Terrone air base in Spain. air base in Spain. air base in Spain. Those markings were obliterated. Those markings were obliterated. Those markings were obliterated. The pilots were given neutral uniforms The pilots were given neutral uniforms The pilots were given neutral uniforms and neutral identification and neutral identification and neutral identification and set to overfly Israel's neighbors.

and set to overfly Israel's neighbors. and set to overfly Israel's neighbors. When hostilities broke out June of 1967, When hostilities broke out June of 1967, When hostilities broke out June of 1967, the Israelis had intelligence courtesy the Israelis had intelligence courtesy the Israelis had intelligence courtesy of the US administration of the US administration of the US administration locating every aircraft for vetment, locating every aircraft for vetment, locating every aircraft for vetment, every tank location of personnel where every tank location of personnel where every tank location of personnel where they were riveted they were riveted they were riveted up where they were based and so forth. up where they were based and so forth. up where they were based and so forth. Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of June 1967. June 1967. June 1967. The uh national security agency had The uh national security agency had The uh national security agency had ordered the USS Liberty proceed from her ordered the USS Liberty proceed from her ordered the USS Liberty proceed from her cruise up and down west coast of Africa cruise up and down west coast of Africa cruise up and down west coast of Africa with all due speed to road to Spain, with all due speed to road to Spain, with all due speed to road to Spain, take on stores, take on stores, take on stores, refuel, pick up six additional refuel, pick up six additional refuel, pick up six additional linguists, and proceed with haste to the linguists, and proceed with haste to the linguists, and proceed with haste to the eastern Mediterranean where they could eastern Mediterranean where they could eastern Mediterranean where they could monitor what was going on. monitor what was going on. monitor what was going on. She was stacked with linguists. Uh out She was stacked with linguists. Uh out She was stacked with linguists. Uh out of a crew of 294 aboard the ship, of a crew of 294 aboard the ship, of a crew of 294 aboard the ship, roughly 190 were intelligence personnel, roughly 190 were intelligence personnel, roughly 190 were intelligence personnel, linguists, codereers, manorse operators, linguists, codereers, manorse operators, linguists, codereers, manorse operators, voice intercept operators, so forth.

voice intercept operators, so forth. voice intercept operators, so forth. The Soviets had a group of Tu95 long The Soviets had a group of Tu95 long The Soviets had a group of Tu95 long range bombers equipped for intelligence range bombers equipped for intelligence range bombers equipped for intelligence collection collection collection at Alexandria, Egypt. They told the at Alexandria, Egypt. They told the at Alexandria, Egypt. They told the world that uh they'd given those planes world that uh they'd given those planes world that uh they'd given those planes to Egypt and that they were manned by to Egypt and that they were manned by to Egypt and that they were manned by Egyptian troops. Egyptian troops. Egyptian troops. Such was not the case. They were Soviet Such was not the case. They were Soviet Such was not the case. They were Soviet troops wearing Egyptian uniforms. troops wearing Egyptian uniforms. troops wearing Egyptian uniforms. The u task that we were given as The u task that we were given as The u task that we were given as linguists. There were three of us linguists. There were three of us linguists. There were three of us Russian linguists aboard her. We had Russian linguists aboard her. We had Russian linguists aboard her. We had three watch sections rotating eight three watch sections rotating eight three watch sections rotating eight hours each. The three of us Russian hours each. The three of us Russian hours each. The three of us Russian linguists that were assigned as voice linguists that were assigned as voice linguists that were assigned as voice intercept section supervisors, our intercept section supervisors, our intercept section supervisors, our primary task was catching those Soviet primary task was catching those Soviet primary task was catching those Soviet TU95 intelligence aircraft at TU95 intelligence aircraft at TU95 intelligence aircraft at Alexandria. Alexandria. Alexandria. The uh aircraft would The uh aircraft would The uh aircraft would communicate in plain language Egyptian communicate in plain language Egyptian communicate in plain language Egyptian until they were airborne and over the uh until they were airborne and over the uh until they were airborne and over the uh Mediterranean Sea, change frequencies Mediterranean Sea, change frequencies Mediterranean Sea, change frequencies and go to plain language Russian.

and go to plain language Russian. and go to plain language Russian. It was ironic that uh while we were It was ironic that uh while we were It was ironic that uh while we were under attack, my relief came into the under attack, my relief came into the under attack, my relief came into the processing and reporting room where I processing and reporting room where I processing and reporting room where I was and said, "Hey, Serge, I got him. I was and said, "Hey, Serge, I got him. I was and said, "Hey, Serge, I got him. I got him." Said, "You got who, Jim?" "The got him." Said, "You got who, Jim?" "The got him." Said, "You got who, Jim?" "The Ruskies." Really? Said, "Yeah, plane lag Ruskies." Really? Said, "Yeah, plane lag Ruskies." Really? Said, "Yeah, plane lag was Russian." He went back into the room was Russian." He went back into the room was Russian." He went back into the room where he was copying the intercept and where he was copying the intercept and where he was copying the intercept and torpedo struck him, killed him. torpedo struck him, killed him. torpedo struck him, killed him. Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of Um, hostilities broke out on the 5th of June, 1967. June, 1967. June, 1967. We arrived on station on the 7th of We arrived on station on the 7th of We arrived on station on the 7th of June. June. June. Um, Um, Um, throughout the day of the 7th and in the throughout the day of the 7th and in the throughout the day of the 7th and in the early morning hours of the 8th of June, early morning hours of the 8th of June, early morning hours of the 8th of June, we were overflown by several different we were overflown by several different we were overflown by several different Israeli aircraft. They flew very close Israeli aircraft. They flew very close Israeli aircraft. They flew very close to us. Uh, we could plainly see the to us. Uh, we could plainly see the to us. Uh, we could plainly see the pilots. We uh fells that were off duty pilots. We uh fells that were off duty pilots. We uh fells that were off duty and sunny themselves on the decks would and sunny themselves on the decks would and sunny themselves on the decks would wave to the pilots at pilots way back. wave to the pilots at pilots way back. wave to the pilots at pilots way back. We had a drill general quarters at noon We had a drill general quarters at noon We had a drill general quarters at noon on the morning of the 8th.

on the morning of the 8th. on the morning of the 8th. Um the captain came on the address Um the captain came on the address Um the captain came on the address system aboard the ship, the 1MC, system aboard the ship, the 1MC, system aboard the ship, the 1MC, um and told us that there were a few um and told us that there were a few um and told us that there were a few things he wanted us to improve. Get to things he wanted us to improve. Get to things he wanted us to improve. Get to our general quarter stations a little our general quarter stations a little our general quarter stations a little more rapidly. get the watertight doors more rapidly. get the watertight doors more rapidly. get the watertight doors closed a little more rapidly, closed a little more rapidly, closed a little more rapidly, secured from the general quarters. I was secured from the general quarters. I was secured from the general quarters. I was at my birthing spaces in the after part at my birthing spaces in the after part at my birthing spaces in the after part of the ship. Um, of the ship. Um, of the ship. Um, I heard a tremendous noise roughly 2:00 I heard a tremendous noise roughly 2:00 I heard a tremendous noise roughly 2:00 local time. local time. local time. I had never been under um hostile fire I had never been under um hostile fire I had never been under um hostile fire before, but I knew that we were in before, but I knew that we were in before, but I knew that we were in trouble. immediately dropped what I was trouble. immediately dropped what I was trouble. immediately dropped what I was doing, headed for my general quarter doing, headed for my general quarter doing, headed for my general quarter station, which was below decks. station, which was below decks. station, which was below decks. Mind you, the cargo spaces in the Mind you, the cargo spaces in the Mind you, the cargo spaces in the forward part of the ship was where all forward part of the ship was where all forward part of the ship was where all of our intelligence people were, roughly of our intelligence people were, roughly of our intelligence people were, roughly 190 men. 190 men. 190 men. The only way out was a narrow, steep The only way out was a narrow, steep The only way out was a narrow, steep ladder way about 2 ft wide with a ladder way about 2 ft wide with a ladder way about 2 ft wide with a railing.

railing. railing. Um, Um, Um, the ship would ring the ship would ring the ship would ring whenever a projectile struck it. whenever a projectile struck it. whenever a projectile struck it. There were 826 There were 826 There were 826 large caliber strikes from aircraft large caliber strikes from aircraft large caliber strikes from aircraft aboard her. aboard her. aboard her. Uh 40 millimeter cannon fire. Um Uh 40 millimeter cannon fire. Um Uh 40 millimeter cannon fire. Um 30 mm cannon fire. 30 mm cannon fire. 30 mm cannon fire. Heat seeeking rockets. Napal Heat seeeking rockets. Napal Heat seeeking rockets. Napal on either side of the ship or starboard. on either side of the ship or starboard. on either side of the ship or starboard. There were racks that contained There were racks that contained There were racks that contained um life rafts with a charge. You jerk on um life rafts with a charge. You jerk on um life rafts with a charge. You jerk on a cord and charge would go off and fire a cord and charge would go off and fire a cord and charge would go off and fire these life rafts into the sea. these life rafts into the sea. these life rafts into the sea. Both of those were napal. The captain's Both of those were napal. The captain's Both of those were napal. The captain's gig was riddled with rocket fire. The gig was riddled with rocket fire. The gig was riddled with rocket fire. The Liberty launch was riddled with rocket Liberty launch was riddled with rocket Liberty launch was riddled with rocket fire. fire. fire. Basically no means of getting any Basically no means of getting any Basically no means of getting any survivors off.

survivors off. survivors off. Um, Um, Um, the Israelis were jamming our distress the Israelis were jamming our distress the Israelis were jamming our distress frequencies, which was a violation of frequencies, which was a violation of frequencies, which was a violation of international law. international law. international law. They were using unmarked aircraft, which They were using unmarked aircraft, which They were using unmarked aircraft, which is a violation of international law. is a violation of international law. is a violation of international law. Um, Um, Um, during the court of inquiry, which was during the court of inquiry, which was during the court of inquiry, which was conducted after the attack was over conducted after the attack was over conducted after the attack was over with, ordered by the Josh with, ordered by the Josh with, ordered by the Josh administration, administration, administration, conducted by uh, Three Star Admiral conducted by uh, Three Star Admiral conducted by uh, Three Star Admiral Isaac Kidd. Isaac Kidd. Isaac Kidd. The Israelis said that they had mistaken The Israelis said that they had mistaken The Israelis said that they had mistaken us for an Egyptian ship. us for an Egyptian ship. us for an Egyptian ship. Um, the Elcasir. Um, the Elcasir. Um, the Elcasir. The Elcasir was a World War I horse The Elcasir was a World War I horse The Elcasir was a World War I horse transport. transport. transport. Her only armament was a 4-in muzzle Her only armament was a 4-in muzzle Her only armament was a 4-in muzzle loading cannon. loading cannon. loading cannon. The Israelis claimed that they were The Israelis claimed that they were The Israelis claimed that they were being shelled from the sea. We were the being shelled from the sea. We were the being shelled from the sea. We were the only ship in the vicinity. only ship in the vicinity. only ship in the vicinity. We had no capacity of shelling anything. We had no capacity of shelling anything. We had no capacity of shelling anything. The bottom line was the Israelis had The bottom line was the Israelis had The bottom line was the Israelis had captured an entire Egyptian brigade.

captured an entire Egyptian brigade. captured an entire Egyptian brigade. They were blowing up the captured They were blowing up the captured They were blowing up the captured ammunition and that's what the ammunition and that's what the ammunition and that's what the explosions were that they claimed was explosions were that they claimed was explosions were that they claimed was fire from the sea. fire from the sea. fire from the sea. Uh quite obviously that was not possible Uh quite obviously that was not possible Uh quite obviously that was not possible from the Elkasir or from us. What can from the Elkasir or from us. What can from the Elkasir or from us. What can you do to monitor important parts of you do to monitor important parts of you do to monitor important parts of your life that you can't always keep your life that you can't always keep your life that you can't always keep your eyes on? things like the far your eyes on? things like the far your eyes on? things like the far corners of a job site or ranch or let's corners of a job site or ranch or let's corners of a job site or ranch or let's say you've got a boat dock somewhere and say you've got a boat dock somewhere and say you've got a boat dock somewhere and you can't check on it every day. you can't check on it every day. you can't check on it every day. Cellular security cameras from Defend Cellular security cameras from Defend Cellular security cameras from Defend are the answer. These cameras are very are the answer. These cameras are very are the answer. These cameras are very easy to install. No Wi-Fi required, no easy to install. No Wi-Fi required, no easy to install. No Wi-Fi required, no complex setup process. You don't need to complex setup process. You don't need to complex setup process. You don't need to be a master electrician to do it. No be a master electrician to do it. No be a master electrician to do it. No running wires all over the place. You running wires all over the place. You running wires all over the place. You just mount the camera, turn it on, and just mount the camera, turn it on, and just mount the camera, turn it on, and it automatically connects to the it automatically connects to the it automatically connects to the strongest available cellular signal and strongest available cellular signal and strongest available cellular signal and starts sending photos and videos starts sending photos and videos starts sending photos and videos directly to your phone. You can be directly to your phone. You can be directly to your phone. You can be across the country. You never have to across the country. You never have to across the country. You never have to wonder what is happening where you live. wonder what is happening where you live. wonder what is happening where you live. You've got total security all the time. You've got total security all the time. You've got total security all the time. It's a gate entrance, a construction It's a gate entrance, a construction It's a gate entrance, a construction site, your barn, cabin, anything else site, your barn, cabin, anything else site, your barn, cabin, anything else you need to keep your eye on when you're you need to keep your eye on when you're you need to keep your eye on when you're gone. This will do it for you. And gone. This will do it for you. And gone. This will do it for you. And unlike a lot of security systems, this unlike a lot of security systems, this unlike a lot of security systems, this is affordable. Peace of mind for an is affordable. Peace of mind for an is affordable. Peace of mind for an honest price. defendellcam.com honest price. defendellcam.com honest price. defendellcam.com is the address. Go there, see for is the address. Go there, see for is the address. Go there, see for yourself. defendellcam.com.

yourself. defendellcam.com. yourself. defendellcam.com. If you've got a signal, you've got If you've got a signal, you've got If you've got a signal, you've got 24-hour security. 24-hour security. 24-hour security. Let me let me let me ask you let me ask Let me let me let me ask you let me ask Let me let me let me ask you let me ask you when you you come you come under you when you you come you come under you when you you come you come under fire around 2:00, how long does it last? fire around 2:00, how long does it last? fire around 2:00, how long does it last? >> Um there are various >> Um there are various >> Um there are various um testimonies about that. The claimed um testimonies about that. The claimed um testimonies about that. The claimed air attack lasted about 25 minutes, but air attack lasted about 25 minutes, but air attack lasted about 25 minutes, but of course when you're under fire and of course when you're under fire and of course when you're under fire and trying to survive, it seems a lot trying to survive, it seems a lot trying to survive, it seems a lot longer. And as I mentioned earlier, the longer. And as I mentioned earlier, the longer. And as I mentioned earlier, the entire ship would ring with each shell entire ship would ring with each shell entire ship would ring with each shell of strucker. of strucker. of strucker. Um, the captain came on the 1MC and Um, the captain came on the 1MC and Um, the captain came on the 1MC and said, "Uh, said, "Uh, said, "Uh, brace your cells, torpedo attack brace your cells, torpedo attack brace your cells, torpedo attack starboard side." Well, that's where I starboard side." Well, that's where I starboard side." Well, that's where I was located. was located. was located. Um my friend Ronnie Campbell was sitting Um my friend Ronnie Campbell was sitting Um my friend Ronnie Campbell was sitting there at a desk and he said, "Well, they there at a desk and he said, "Well, they there at a desk and he said, "Well, they hit us with everything else. What else hit us with everything else. What else hit us with everything else. What else can they hit us with? can they hit us with? can they hit us with? The uh division officer, Lieutenant The uh division officer, Lieutenant The uh division officer, Lieutenant Bennett, stuck his head in the hatcho Bennett, stuck his head in the hatcho Bennett, stuck his head in the hatcho and he said, "Sergeant Lock, would you and he said, "Sergeant Lock, would you and he said, "Sergeant Lock, would you come a minute, please?" I stepped out come a minute, please?" I stepped out come a minute, please?" I stepped out into the passageway. I ran down the into the passageway. I ran down the into the passageway. I ran down the center of the ship and he got me in a center of the ship and he got me in a center of the ship and he got me in a conversation with Lieutenant Commander conversation with Lieutenant Commander conversation with Lieutenant Commander David Lewis who was a senior research David Lewis who was a senior research David Lewis who was a senior research officer board the ship about getting officer board the ship about getting officer board the ship about getting these ditching bags top side pitched these ditching bags top side pitched these ditching bags top side pitched over in the sea.

over in the sea. over in the sea. We had large canvas bags, brass furls in We had large canvas bags, brass furls in We had large canvas bags, brass furls in the sides, lead weight in the bottom. the sides, lead weight in the bottom. the sides, lead weight in the bottom. The idea was all the classified The idea was all the classified The idea was all the classified information we had get them into these information we had get them into these information we had get them into these ditching bags the top side pitch into ditching bags the top side pitch into ditching bags the top side pitch into the seed. the seed. the seed. Should they be recovered by the time Should they be recovered by the time Should they be recovered by the time they could be, any information in them they could be, any information in them they could be, any information in them would be useless. would be useless. would be useless. When there was a sudden blinding flash When there was a sudden blinding flash When there was a sudden blinding flash of flame, tremendous of flame, tremendous of flame, tremendous loud noise loud noise loud noise me to the deck. I was kind of me to the deck. I was kind of me to the deck. I was kind of semi-conscious. I'm thinking to myself, semi-conscious. I'm thinking to myself, semi-conscious. I'm thinking to myself, "Well, Lord, I guess this is it. I guess "Well, Lord, I guess this is it. I guess "Well, Lord, I guess this is it. I guess I'm coming home. At least Lois, my kids I'm coming home. At least Lois, my kids I'm coming home. At least Lois, my kids are taken care of. Lo is my wife." are taken care of. Lo is my wife." are taken care of. Lo is my wife." I felt something cold. looked down and I felt something cold. looked down and I felt something cold. looked down and water was gushing in. water was gushing in. water was gushing in. I didn't find out what had actually I didn't find out what had actually I didn't find out what had actually taken place so many years later. Some of taken place so many years later. Some of taken place so many years later. Some of the sailors told me that when the the sailors told me that when the the sailors told me that when the torpedo struck, torpedo struck, torpedo struck, it literally lifted the ship out of the it literally lifted the ship out of the it literally lifted the ship out of the water water water and sent her back down.

and sent her back down. and sent her back down. When she came down and rolled towards When she came down and rolled towards When she came down and rolled towards the starboard side, there was a roughly the starboard side, there was a roughly the starboard side, there was a roughly 40 foot hole on the side. That water was 40 foot hole on the side. That water was 40 foot hole on the side. That water was gushing in. gushing in. gushing in. I heard a moan behind me struggling to I heard a moan behind me struggling to I heard a moan behind me struggling to my feet. There was a sailor trapped my feet. There was a sailor trapped my feet. There was a sailor trapped there in the wreckage. there in the wreckage. there in the wreckage. His name was Joe Lentini. I didn't know His name was Joe Lentini. I didn't know His name was Joe Lentini. I didn't know who that was until 25 years later. who that was until 25 years later. who that was until 25 years later. Joe was one of the communicators that Joe was one of the communicators that Joe was one of the communicators that worked with the teletype equipment. We worked with the teletype equipment. We worked with the teletype equipment. We weren't getting anything out. Couldn't weren't getting anything out. Couldn't weren't getting anything out. Couldn't understand why we weren't getting mayday understand why we weren't getting mayday understand why we weren't getting mayday out and uh weren't getting any aid and a out and uh weren't getting any aid and a out and uh weren't getting any aid and a piece of shrapnel from a rocket had piece of shrapnel from a rocket had piece of shrapnel from a rocket had penetrated the ship and struck him in penetrated the ship and struck him in penetrated the ship and struck him in the left thigh. Joe was bleeding the left thigh. Joe was bleeding the left thigh. Joe was bleeding profusely. He sat there on the deck and profusely. He sat there on the deck and profusely. He sat there on the deck and leaned up against the lighter weight. leaned up against the lighter weight. leaned up against the lighter weight. The only way out and was putting a The only way out and was putting a The only way out and was putting a tourniquet on that wound when the tourniquet on that wound when the tourniquet on that wound when the torpedo struck. torpedo struck. torpedo struck. Our office spaces were separated by Our office spaces were separated by Our office spaces were separated by sheet steel bulkheads. sheet steel bulkheads. sheet steel bulkheads. That bulkhead just mushroomed out, That bulkhead just mushroomed out, That bulkhead just mushroomed out, caught him in his left knee upturned and caught him in his left knee upturned and caught him in his left knee upturned and literally made toothpicks literally made toothpicks literally made toothpicks out of his femur bone.

out of his femur bone. out of his femur bone. >> And uh I'm trying to pull him loose. The >> And uh I'm trying to pull him loose. The >> And uh I'm trying to pull him loose. The water was coming up pretty rapidly. And water was coming up pretty rapidly. And water was coming up pretty rapidly. And I said, "Come on, you got to help me. I I said, "Come on, you got to help me. I I said, "Come on, you got to help me. I can't do it by myself. Come on, get your can't do it by myself. Come on, get your can't do it by myself. Come on, get your legs under you and push." Well, I didn't legs under you and push." Well, I didn't legs under you and push." Well, I didn't realize that his left leg was smashed, realize that his left leg was smashed, realize that his left leg was smashed, but I felt him get his right leg under but I felt him get his right leg under but I felt him get his right leg under me and pushed just enough where I could me and pushed just enough where I could me and pushed just enough where I could free him, though he was still partially free him, though he was still partially free him, though he was still partially tangled up in that wreckage. tangled up in that wreckage. tangled up in that wreckage. Um, by that time, the water was within a Um, by that time, the water was within a Um, by that time, the water was within a foot and a half of the overhead. There foot and a half of the overhead. There foot and a half of the overhead. There were some pipes that carried cabling and were some pipes that carried cabling and were some pipes that carried cabling and power and so forth that was hanging from power and so forth that was hanging from power and so forth that was hanging from the overhead. I said, "Here, get a hold the overhead. I said, "Here, get a hold the overhead. I said, "Here, get a hold of these pipes." of these pipes." of these pipes." About that time, I saw a body floating About that time, I saw a body floating About that time, I saw a body floating out towards a hole. I reached down with out towards a hole. I reached down with out towards a hole. I reached down with my right arm and got an arm around him, my right arm and got an arm around him, my right arm and got an arm around him, tried to hold his head above water. tried to hold his head above water. tried to hold his head above water. I heard uh the division officer, I heard uh the division officer, I heard uh the division officer, Lieutenant Bennett at the top of the Lieutenant Bennett at the top of the Lieutenant Bennett at the top of the ladderway say, "This Mr. Bennett opened ladderway say, "This Mr. Bennett opened ladderway say, "This Mr. Bennett opened this hatch." this hatch." this hatch." There was a lot of confusion. You can There was a lot of confusion. You can There was a lot of confusion. You can imagine roughly 190 people crammed into imagine roughly 190 people crammed into imagine roughly 190 people crammed into that space that space that space in fear of their lives.

in fear of their lives. in fear of their lives. Um, a lot of shouting. I as loudly as I Um, a lot of shouting. I as loudly as I Um, a lot of shouting. I as loudly as I could. Knock it off. If y'all will could. Knock it off. If y'all will could. Knock it off. If y'all will settle down, none of us will get out settle down, none of us will get out settle down, none of us will get out here alive. here alive. here alive. Um, that was the last thing I remember. Um, that was the last thing I remember. Um, that was the last thing I remember. I apparently passed out. Next thing I I apparently passed out. Next thing I I apparently passed out. Next thing I recall was being alone with the recall was being alone with the recall was being alone with the unconscious sailor and nobody there but unconscious sailor and nobody there but unconscious sailor and nobody there but me and the sea and him. me and the sea and him. me and the sea and him. Um, the ship was rolling. Um, the ship was rolling. Um, the ship was rolling. Um, the torpedo had ruptured one of the Um, the torpedo had ruptured one of the Um, the torpedo had ruptured one of the fuel tanks which there on the starboard fuel tanks which there on the starboard fuel tanks which there on the starboard side. side. side. That was the That was the That was the heavy oil that powered the ship. It's a heavy oil that powered the ship. It's a heavy oil that powered the ship. It's a stinking stinking stinking oil. That oil was everywhere oil. That oil was everywhere oil. That oil was everywhere and oil water don't mix. Of course, you and oil water don't mix. Of course, you and oil water don't mix. Of course, you can imagine just about everything was can imagine just about everything was can imagine just about everything was coated with it. coated with it. coated with it. I tried to start up the ladder way with I tried to start up the ladder way with I tried to start up the ladder way with this unconscious sailor. slipped, this unconscious sailor. slipped, this unconscious sailor. slipped, dropped him. He's going back out the dropped him. He's going back out the dropped him. He's going back out the hole way. Got him. Got back started back hole way. Got him. Got back started back hole way. Got him. Got back started back up the ladder way.

up the ladder way. up the ladder way. About half or two/irds the way up the About half or two/irds the way up the About half or two/irds the way up the ladder way. A piece of shrapnel from the ladder way. A piece of shrapnel from the ladder way. A piece of shrapnel from the torpedo had bent in the railing. So torpedo had bent in the railing. So torpedo had bent in the railing. So there's only a space uh oh roughly a there's only a space uh oh roughly a there's only a space uh oh roughly a foot wide. foot wide. foot wide. Got to that point, slit, dropped him Got to that point, slit, dropped him Got to that point, slit, dropped him again, going back out the hole, and that again, going back out the hole, and that again, going back out the hole, and that got him back up the ladway again. Got up got him back up the ladway again. Got up got him back up the ladway again. Got up to the top and the hatch was sealed to the top and the hatch was sealed to the top and the hatch was sealed shut. shut. shut. trying to hold his head above water and trying to hold his head above water and trying to hold his head above water and pound on the hatch and a pound on the hatch and a pound on the hatch and a failing named Bobby Schnell. failing named Bobby Schnell. failing named Bobby Schnell. There were a dogs that held the hatch There were a dogs that held the hatch There were a dogs that held the hatch sealer shut around a rubber gasket and sealer shut around a rubber gasket and sealer shut around a rubber gasket and about a 8 in high metal seal. about a 8 in high metal seal. about a 8 in high metal seal. Oh, I'm guessing probably a dozen large Oh, I'm guessing probably a dozen large Oh, I'm guessing probably a dozen large bolts that uh bolted it down. He got a bolts that uh bolted it down. He got a bolts that uh bolted it down. He got a wrench, knocked those nuts loose, and wrench, knocked those nuts loose, and wrench, knocked those nuts loose, and opened the hatch, opened the hatch, opened the hatch, let me out. I tried to drag his sailor let me out. I tried to drag his sailor let me out. I tried to drag his sailor out, dropped him, tried to drag him out, dropped him, tried to drag him out, dropped him, tried to drag him again, can't quite get him out, tried to again, can't quite get him out, tried to again, can't quite get him out, tried to turn him over. His foot caught in the turn him over. His foot caught in the turn him over. His foot caught in the chain that was holding the uh prop or chain that was holding the uh prop or chain that was holding the uh prop or the the the hatch open and u literally I was trying hatch open and u literally I was trying hatch open and u literally I was trying to drag his leg off.

to drag his leg off. to drag his leg off. Phil Turney was one of the damage Phil Turney was one of the damage Phil Turney was one of the damage control people was standing there. He control people was standing there. He control people was standing there. He said, "Wait a minute. He got his foot said, "Wait a minute. He got his foot said, "Wait a minute. He got his foot caught." He freed his foot. caught." He freed his foot. caught." He freed his foot. Um he said the captain is order to Um he said the captain is order to Um he said the captain is order to prepare to abandon ship. He said, "You prepare to abandon ship. He said, "You prepare to abandon ship. He said, "You need to get a life vest on. There's been need to get a life vest on. There's been need to get a life vest on. There's been there to have life vest." And they said, there to have life vest." And they said, there to have life vest." And they said, "Get a life vest on. Put one on him and "Get a life vest on. Put one on him and "Get a life vest on. Put one on him and they're doing triage at the mics and they're doing triage at the mics and they're doing triage at the mics and they have to part of the ship." So you they have to part of the ship." So you they have to part of the ship." So you need to get him back there. Triage. need to get him back there. Triage. need to get him back there. Triage. I tried to pick him up pretty weak. I tried to pick him up pretty weak. I tried to pick him up pretty weak. Dropped him. Tried to pick him up again. Dropped him. Tried to pick him up again. Dropped him. Tried to pick him up again. and dropped him again. and dropped him again. and dropped him again. Um, years later when I found out who he Um, years later when I found out who he Um, years later when I found out who he was, it was some 30 years before I even was, it was some 30 years before I even was, it was some 30 years before I even found out who he was. found out who he was. found out who he was. We were sitting in his kitchen Sunday We were sitting in his kitchen Sunday We were sitting in his kitchen Sunday morning in Chicago and his family is morning in Chicago and his family is morning in Chicago and his family is gathered around. I don't want to know gathered around. I don't want to know gathered around. I don't want to know what had happened to dad. I'm trying to what had happened to dad. I'm trying to what had happened to dad. I'm trying to tell him and uh tell him and uh tell him and uh his name was Dave McFagen and he kind of his name was Dave McFagen and he kind of his name was Dave McFagen and he kind of blurted out said, "I wouldn't be hurt blurted out said, "I wouldn't be hurt blurted out said, "I wouldn't be hurt nearly as bad. You would have dropped me nearly as bad. You would have dropped me nearly as bad. You would have dropped me so many times." so many times." so many times." He had been topside in the rocket from He had been topside in the rocket from He had been topside in the rocket from one of the air attacks that exploded one of the air attacks that exploded one of the air attacks that exploded very close to him and flying it back very close to him and flying it back very close to him and flying it back into the bulkhead.

into the bulkhead. into the bulkhead. He's wounded from that. He's in a lot of He's wounded from that. He's in a lot of He's wounded from that. He's in a lot of pain. He's thinking, I got to get to my pain. He's thinking, I got to get to my pain. He's thinking, I got to get to my GQ station. His GQ station was down GQ station. His GQ station was down GQ station. His GQ station was down below decks. He gets down there just as below decks. He gets down there just as below decks. He gets down there just as they slam the hatch shut and bolt it they slam the hatch shut and bolt it they slam the hatch shut and bolt it down. He's sitting on the ladder way down. He's sitting on the ladder way down. He's sitting on the ladder way with his head in his hands, hurting with his head in his hands, hurting with his head in his hands, hurting badly when the torpedo struck, badly when the torpedo struck, badly when the torpedo struck, slammed him back into the ladder way and slammed him back into the ladder way and slammed him back into the ladder way and made a mess out of his spine. made a mess out of his spine. made a mess out of his spine. >> He's still alive, but barely and can >> He's still alive, but barely and can >> He's still alive, but barely and can find a wheelchair. Now, find a wheelchair. Now, find a wheelchair. Now, uh Joe Lentini uh Joe Lentini uh Joe Lentini passed away from a heart attack some passed away from a heart attack some passed away from a heart attack some three years ago. three years ago. three years ago. Uh, Uh, Uh, the book Assault on the Liberty credits the book Assault on the Liberty credits the book Assault on the Liberty credits me with diving underwater and freeing me with diving underwater and freeing me with diving underwater and freeing Joe and Tini's leg. That was actually a Joe and Tini's leg. That was actually a Joe and Tini's leg. That was actually a sailor named Bobby Schnell that did sailor named Bobby Schnell that did sailor named Bobby Schnell that did that. that. that. Freed his leg, carried him topside. Freed his leg, carried him topside. Freed his leg, carried him topside. There was uh some conversation that I There was uh some conversation that I There was uh some conversation that I carried a man out, went back down.

carried a man out, went back down. carried a man out, went back down. Senior listened man stand why that Senior listened man stand why that Senior listened man stand why that charge you can't go back down there. charge you can't go back down there. charge you can't go back down there. Um, Stan has since passed away too, but Um, Stan has since passed away too, but Um, Stan has since passed away too, but uh, he told me he said, "You gave me a uh, he told me he said, "You gave me a uh, he told me he said, "You gave me a kind of a blank stare and went back kind of a blank stare and went back kind of a blank stare and went back down." I don't recall any of that. down." I don't recall any of that. down." I don't recall any of that. I think there's a good possibility. I I think there's a good possibility. I I think there's a good possibility. I was confused with someone else, but the was confused with someone else, but the was confused with someone else, but the Navy Marine Corps uniforms a different Navy Marine Corps uniforms a different Navy Marine Corps uniforms a different color. color. color. Um, Um, Um, we were told to go to the radio room on we were told to go to the radio room on we were told to go to the radio room on the port side of the ship. the port side of the ship. the port side of the ship. I was lying on the deck in a radio room I was lying on the deck in a radio room I was lying on the deck in a radio room and I couldn't understand why we weren't and I couldn't understand why we weren't and I couldn't understand why we weren't getting any aid. There was getting any aid. There was getting any aid. There was machine gunning going on. machine gunning going on. machine gunning going on. Uh the motor torpedo boats were circling Uh the motor torpedo boats were circling Uh the motor torpedo boats were circling the ship, riddling us with the ship, riddling us with the ship, riddling us with heavy machine gun fire. There were 3,100 heavy machine gun fire. There were 3,100 heavy machine gun fire. There were 3,100 heavy caliber machine gun strikes on the heavy caliber machine gun strikes on the heavy caliber machine gun strikes on the ship.

ship. ship. Um Um Um I I I uh one of the radio men uh one of the radio men uh one of the radio men figured out that when they were shooting figured out that when they were shooting figured out that when they were shooting rockets at us, they couldn't jam our rockets at us, they couldn't jam our rockets at us, they couldn't jam our distress frequencies because the uh distress frequencies because the uh distress frequencies because the uh banning would have screwed up the flight banning would have screwed up the flight banning would have screwed up the flight of the rockets. of the rockets. of the rockets. In a brief period when those rockets In a brief period when those rockets In a brief period when those rockets were being fired, were being fired, were being fired, this mayday went out. Firefox. Firefox. this mayday went out. Firefox. Firefox. this mayday went out. Firefox. Firefox. This is Rockstar. Rockstar under attack This is Rockstar. Rockstar under attack This is Rockstar. Rockstar under attack by unidentified surface and air units by unidentified surface and air units by unidentified surface and air units require immediate assistance. require immediate assistance. require immediate assistance. As soon as that media was acknowledged, As soon as that media was acknowledged, As soon as that media was acknowledged, the shooting stopped. the shooting stopped. the shooting stopped. I saw some sailors carry three I saw some sailors carry three I saw some sailors carry three inflatable rats through the radio room. inflatable rats through the radio room. inflatable rats through the radio room. Heard them fall into the sea. There were Heard them fall into the sea. There were Heard them fall into the sea. There were lines attached lines attached lines attached to keep them from floating away. to keep them from floating away. to keep them from floating away. I heard a revving of engines, some more I heard a revving of engines, some more I heard a revving of engines, some more machine gun fire. machine gun fire. machine gun fire. One of those sailors came back through One of those sailors came back through One of those sailors came back through the radio room and he said, "I don't the radio room and he said, "I don't the radio room and he said, "I don't know what we're going to do now. They've know what we're going to do now. They've know what we're going to do now. They've riddled what we had left."

riddled what we had left." riddled what we had left." It is my understanding if that machine It is my understanding if that machine It is my understanding if that machine gun fire severed the line that was gun fire severed the line that was gun fire severed the line that was holding one of those life rafts. holding one of those life rafts. holding one of those life rafts. The uh torpedo boat came in, picked it The uh torpedo boat came in, picked it The uh torpedo boat came in, picked it up, plainly labeled US Navy. Can't be up, plainly labeled US Navy. Can't be up, plainly labeled US Navy. Can't be proven. I'd have no idea, but I heard a proven. I'd have no idea, but I heard a proven. I'd have no idea, but I heard a rumor that that life raft rumor that that life raft rumor that that life raft and the ship's wheel from the torpedo and the ship's wheel from the torpedo and the ship's wheel from the torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo boat that fired the fatal torpedo are in the Israeli are in the Israeli are in the Israeli Naval War Museum at Hifa Naval War Museum at Hifa Naval War Museum at Hifa as trophies of war. America is as trophies of war. America is as trophies of war. America is exceptional because in this country, we exceptional because in this country, we exceptional because in this country, we know that our rights come from God, not know that our rights come from God, not know that our rights come from God, not the government. Yet everyday abortion the government. Yet everyday abortion the government. Yet everyday abortion denies unborn babies the most important denies unborn babies the most important denies unborn babies the most important fundamental right of all the right to be fundamental right of all the right to be fundamental right of all the right to be alive. Freeborn exists to give alive. Freeborn exists to give alive. Freeborn exists to give struggling expectant mothers an option struggling expectant mothers an option struggling expectant mothers an option to abortion. Pre-born network clinics to abortion. Pre-born network clinics to abortion. Pre-born network clinics welcome women with surprise pregnancies. welcome women with surprise pregnancies. welcome women with surprise pregnancies. They welcome them with compassion and They welcome them with compassion and They welcome them with compassion and support and a free ultrasound. Because support and a free ultrasound. Because support and a free ultrasound. Because when a mother sees her baby and hears when a mother sees her baby and hears when a mother sees her baby and hears his heartbeat for the first time, she his heartbeat for the first time, she his heartbeat for the first time, she becomes twice as likely to choose life becomes twice as likely to choose life becomes twice as likely to choose life because she understands what the choice because she understands what the choice because she understands what the choice is about. These babies are the future.

is about. These babies are the future. is about. These babies are the future. or they'll grow up into parents and or they'll grow up into parents and or they'll grow up into parents and teachers and pastors and entrepreneurs teachers and pastors and entrepreneurs teachers and pastors and entrepreneurs and moms and leaders they won't if and moms and leaders they won't if and moms and leaders they won't if they're killed. Pre-born's ultrasounds they're killed. Pre-born's ultrasounds they're killed. Pre-born's ultrasounds make a huge difference. Just $28 make a huge difference. Just $28 make a huge difference. Just $28 provides one life-saving ultrasound. In provides one life-saving ultrasound. In provides one life-saving ultrasound. In honor of America's 250th birthday, a honor of America's 250th birthday, a honor of America's 250th birthday, a special gift of $250 will save even more special gift of $250 will save even more special gift of $250 will save even more children. To help today, dial pound 250. children. To help today, dial pound 250. children. To help today, dial pound 250. Say the keyword baby or give securely at Say the keyword baby or give securely at Say the keyword baby or give securely at pre-born.com/tucker. pre-born.com/tucker. pre-born.com/tucker. That's pre-born.com/tucker. That's pre-born.com/tucker. That's pre-born.com/tucker. All gifts are taxdeductible. So, did at All gifts are taxdeductible. So, did at All gifts are taxdeductible. So, did at any at any point did did the torpedo any at any point did did the torpedo any at any point did did the torpedo boats come to the aid of survivors? What boats come to the aid of survivors? What boats come to the aid of survivors? What what did when the Israelis stopped what did when the Israelis stopped what did when the Israelis stopped firing on the Liberty after your Mayday firing on the Liberty after your Mayday firing on the Liberty after your Mayday call was received? Did they help in any call was received? Did they help in any call was received? Did they help in any way, the survivors? way, the survivors? way, the survivors? >> Um, actually, we heard some helicopters >> Um, actually, we heard some helicopters >> Um, actually, we heard some helicopters overhead. I did not see them myself, but overhead. I did not see them myself, but overhead. I did not see them myself, but the deck crew told me that two large armored helicopters came over fully armored helicopters came over fully loaded with armed troops, automatic loaded with armed troops, automatic loaded with armed troops, automatic weapons, hand grenades.

weapons, hand grenades. weapons, hand grenades. It seems fairly obvious. The idea was It seems fairly obvious. The idea was It seems fairly obvious. The idea was sake the ship, kill everyone aboard it, sake the ship, kill everyone aboard it, sake the ship, kill everyone aboard it, no survivors. We think there's a very good possibility We think there's a very good possibility that we were set up by our own that we were set up by our own that we were set up by our own government. The President Lyndon Bage government. The President Lyndon Bage government. The President Lyndon Bage Johnson was very friendly towards Johnson was very friendly towards Johnson was very friendly towards Israel. Israel. Israel. Um his predecessor Um his predecessor Um his predecessor John F. Kennedy had actually given a John F. Kennedy had actually given a John F. Kennedy had actually given a speech speech speech about the necessity for about the necessity for about the necessity for um um um discourse between the Palestinians and discourse between the Palestinians and discourse between the Palestinians and Israelis about Israelis about Israelis about getting some 700,000 refugees from the getting some 700,000 refugees from the getting some 700,000 refugees from the so-called war of independence of Israel so-called war of independence of Israel so-called war of independence of Israel 1947-48. 1947-48. 1947-48. They were driven from their homes. The They were driven from their homes. The They were driven from their homes. The Israelis said they were voluntary Israelis said they were voluntary Israelis said they were voluntary voluntarily left. My personal opinion is voluntarily left. My personal opinion is voluntarily left. My personal opinion is there was nothing voluntary about it. there was nothing voluntary about it. there was nothing voluntary about it. They were told to leave or They were told to leave or They were told to leave or be destroyed.

be destroyed. be destroyed. Kennedy conversation was to have at Kennedy conversation was to have at Kennedy conversation was to have at least a portion of those refugees be least a portion of those refugees be least a portion of those refugees be allowed to return to their ancestral allowed to return to their ancestral allowed to return to their ancestral homes. homes. homes. Um, Um, Um, as a result of our Congress, our as a result of our Congress, our as a result of our Congress, our president doing nothing about the attack president doing nothing about the attack president doing nothing about the attack on the OS Liberty, on the OS Liberty, on the OS Liberty, the Court of Inquiry accepted the the Court of Inquiry accepted the the Court of Inquiry accepted the Israelis excuse. It was a case of Israelis excuse. It was a case of Israelis excuse. It was a case of mistaken identity. Case was closed. As a result of our doing nothing, Israel As a result of our doing nothing, Israel realized realized realized they could do whatever they wanted. The they could do whatever they wanted. The they could do whatever they wanted. The United States Congress, United States United States Congress, United States United States Congress, United States administration would say nothing, do administration would say nothing, do administration would say nothing, do nothing. I I be I'm sorry to interrupt. nothing. I I be I'm sorry to interrupt. nothing. I I be I'm sorry to interrupt. Why? Why? I just want to go back to what Why? Why? I just want to go back to what Why? Why? I just want to go back to what you said about your belief that the you said about your belief that the you said about your belief that the Johnson administration knew that this Johnson administration knew that this Johnson administration knew that this attack was coming on the Liberty. Why do attack was coming on the Liberty. Why do attack was coming on the Liberty. Why do you think they would have allowed that? you think they would have allowed that? you think they would have allowed that? >> Um, Commander Lewis, who was a senior Commander Lewis, who was a senior intelligence officer board a ship, intelligence officer board a ship, intelligence officer board a ship, and I both had pretty much the same and I both had pretty much the same and I both had pretty much the same wounds. My glasses protected my face wounds. My glasses protected my face wounds. My glasses protected my face from debris. His eyes were sealed shut.

from debris. His eyes were sealed shut. from debris. His eyes were sealed shut. We were both medevaced off to the We were both medevaced off to the We were both medevaced off to the carrier America. carrier America. carrier America. Admiral Lawrence Larry Guys who was a Admiral Lawrence Larry Guys who was a Admiral Lawrence Larry Guys who was a task force six commanding officer that task force six commanding officer that task force six commanding officer that included the carriers USS Saratoga, included the carriers USS Saratoga, included the carriers USS Saratoga, USS America and the guided missile USS America and the guided missile USS America and the guided missile cruiser the USS Little Rock cruiser the USS Little Rock cruiser the USS Little Rock um asked for Commander Lewis to come to um asked for Commander Lewis to come to um asked for Commander Lewis to come to his stateateroom. This was several days his stateateroom. This was several days his stateateroom. This was several days after the attack had taken place. after the attack had taken place. after the attack had taken place. He swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until He swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until He swore Mr. Lewis to secrecy until after his death after his death after his death told him that he had ordered aircraft to told him that he had ordered aircraft to told him that he had ordered aircraft to come to our aid. Planes were launched come to our aid. Planes were launched come to our aid. Planes were launched from the USS Saratoga. from the USS Saratoga. from the USS Saratoga. They had nuclear weapons aboard them. They had nuclear weapons aboard them. They had nuclear weapons aboard them. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera Secretary of Defense Robert McNamera ordered them returned. Uh both Admiral G ordered them returned. Uh both Admiral G ordered them returned. Uh both Admiral G and skipper of the Saratoga, Captain and skipper of the Saratoga, Captain and skipper of the Saratoga, Captain Joseph Tully, Joseph Tully, Joseph Tully, um figured out that that was probably um figured out that that was probably um figured out that that was probably because there were nuclear weapons because there were nuclear weapons because there were nuclear weapons aboard them. They were recovered.

aboard them. They were recovered. aboard them. They were recovered. Conventional aircraft with conventional Conventional aircraft with conventional Conventional aircraft with conventional weapons were relaunched to come to our weapons were relaunched to come to our weapons were relaunched to come to our aid. Captain Tully renotified aid. Captain Tully renotified aid. Captain Tully renotified Washington. Washington. Washington. Secretary of Defense Matt Mer came on Secretary of Defense Matt Mer came on Secretary of Defense Matt Mer came on the circuit again and ordered those the circuit again and ordered those the circuit again and ordered those aircraft returned. aircraft returned. aircraft returned. Admiral Guys said, "I want to exercise Admiral Guys said, "I want to exercise Admiral Guys said, "I want to exercise my authority and hear that from higher my authority and hear that from higher my authority and hear that from higher authority." Well, the only higher authority." Well, the only higher authority." Well, the only higher authority was the president. authority was the president. authority was the president. Um, this is a conversation that was Um, this is a conversation that was Um, this is a conversation that was related to related to related to David Lewis David Lewis David Lewis from Admiral Gis. The president said, from Admiral Gis. The president said, from Admiral Gis. The president said, "Get those aircraft back. I will not "Get those aircraft back. I will not "Get those aircraft back. I will not have my allies embarrassed." have my allies embarrassed." have my allies embarrassed." They were using unmarked aircraft and we They were using unmarked aircraft and we They were using unmarked aircraft and we did not know who was attacking us. How did not know who was attacking us. How did not know who was attacking us. How did the president know? did the president know? did the president know? The number two man in the US CIA at the The number two man in the US CIA at the The number two man in the US CIA at the time was a gentleman named James time was a gentleman named James time was a gentleman named James Angleton. Angleton. Angleton. James Ankleton was not only the number James Ankleton was not only the number James Ankleton was not only the number two man in the US Central Intelligence two man in the US Central Intelligence two man in the US Central Intelligence Agency, US double agent, Israeli Mossad.

Many of us survivors believe that we Many of us survivors believe that we were set up by our own government. False flag operation. False flag operation. Sink the ship. No survivors. Blame it on Sink the ship. No survivors. Blame it on Sink the ship. No survivors. Blame it on Egypt. Get the United States involved on Egypt. Get the United States involved on Egypt. Get the United States involved on the side of Israel against your the side of Israel against your the side of Israel against your neighbors. neighbors. neighbors. And excuse me, Tucker. What's happening And excuse me, Tucker. What's happening And excuse me, Tucker. What's happening now? now? now? the the head of counter intelligence the the head of counter intelligence the the head of counter intelligence that you you mentioned, James Jesus that you you mentioned, James Jesus that you you mentioned, James Jesus Angleton, uh was also clearly involved Angleton, uh was also clearly involved Angleton, uh was also clearly involved in the Kennedy assassination. in the Kennedy assassination. in the Kennedy assassination. Um the beneficiary of which was of Um the beneficiary of which was of Um the beneficiary of which was of course Lyndon Johnson and Israel. Uh I course Lyndon Johnson and Israel. Uh I course Lyndon Johnson and Israel. Uh I >> that's beyond my comprehension, Tucker. >> that's beyond my comprehension, Tucker. >> that's beyond my comprehension, Tucker. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I I don't doubt that. >> I I don't doubt that. >> I I don't doubt that. >> Yeah. Well, it's pretty it's pretty >> Yeah. Well, it's pretty it's pretty >> Yeah. Well, it's pretty it's pretty clear, I think, from documents that have clear, I think, from documents that have clear, I think, from documents that have subsequently been uh released. Um, subsequently been uh released. Um, subsequently been uh released. Um, so how many just to to end the to wrap so how many just to to end the to wrap so how many just to to end the to wrap up the story of what actually happened up the story of what actually happened up the story of what actually happened that day. How many Americans were killed that day. How many Americans were killed that day. How many Americans were killed in the attack?

in the attack? in the attack? >> There were 34 Americans killed. Um, one >> There were 34 Americans killed. Um, one >> There were 34 Americans killed. Um, one civilian, Allan Blue. He was a Arabic civilian, Allan Blue. He was a Arabic civilian, Allan Blue. He was a Arabic linguist from National Security Agency. linguist from National Security Agency. linguist from National Security Agency. Other two Marines were both killed. Other two Marines were both killed. Other two Marines were both killed. Sergeant Jack Raper, Corporal Ed Ray, Sergeant Jack Raper, Corporal Ed Ray, Sergeant Jack Raper, Corporal Ed Ray, they were both Arabic linguists. they were both Arabic linguists. they were both Arabic linguists. And um the mounts of the uh And um the mounts of the uh And um the mounts of the uh 31 were all sailors. 31 were all sailors. 31 were all sailors. They were all linguist manuals intercept They were all linguist manuals intercept They were all linguist manuals intercept operators. 34 killed. There were uh 28 purple 34 killed. There were uh 28 purple hearts awarded, 174 wounded. hearts awarded, 174 wounded. hearts awarded, 174 wounded. >> Several of the crewmen that were wounded >> Several of the crewmen that were wounded >> Several of the crewmen that were wounded were never awarded purple hearts. Uh Jack Bey. Jack Bey. Um he was machinist mate who was working Um he was machinist mate who was working Um he was machinist mate who was working on the he was changing oil on the on the he was changing oil on the on the he was changing oil on the Liberty launch the enlisted watch Liberty launch the enlisted watch Liberty launch the enlisted watch when the air attack took place. He had when the air attack took place. He had when the air attack took place. He had shrapn back of his head. He didn't find shrapn back of his head. He didn't find shrapn back of his head. He didn't find out about till many years later what out about till many years later what out about till many years later what Veterans Administration performed the Veterans Administration performed the Veterans Administration performed the X-ray on a skull.

X-ray on a skull. X-ray on a skull. Um, Um, Um, there was another Navy chief, there was another Navy chief, there was another Navy chief, Joe. Joe. Joe. Last name slipping by right now. He had Last name slipping by right now. He had Last name slipping by right now. He had one of those heavy caliber strikes in one of those heavy caliber strikes in one of those heavy caliber strikes in his left calf. his left calf. his left calf. He was a boy scout instructor, new first He was a boy scout instructor, new first He was a boy scout instructor, new first aid, took that aid, took that aid, took that projectile out of his leg himself, projectile out of his leg himself, projectile out of his leg himself, wrapped himself up. He was never awarded wrapped himself up. He was never awarded wrapped himself up. He was never awarded a purple. a purple. a purple. There were others. There were others. There were others. >> Cost of living is already making it hard >> Cost of living is already making it hard >> Cost of living is already making it hard to live here and it's not getting any to live here and it's not getting any to live here and it's not getting any better. Unfortunately, it's likely to better. Unfortunately, it's likely to better. Unfortunately, it's likely to get worse. And a lot of Americans fill get worse. And a lot of Americans fill get worse. And a lot of Americans fill the gap with credit cards, not just for the gap with credit cards, not just for the gap with credit cards, not just for fancy dinners, but to cover things like fancy dinners, but to cover things like fancy dinners, but to cover things like groceries and bills. That is a disaster. groceries and bills. That is a disaster. groceries and bills. That is a disaster. It's understandable, but don't go down It's understandable, but don't go down It's understandable, but don't go down that road because there is a tax in that road because there is a tax in that road because there is a tax in effect a survival tax of 20% interest or effect a survival tax of 20% interest or effect a survival tax of 20% interest or more. Why would you do that? Why would more. Why would you do that? Why would more. Why would you do that? Why would you hand money to the big banks when you you hand money to the big banks when you you hand money to the big banks when you could keep it for your family? Our could keep it for your family? Our could keep it for your family? Our friends at American Financing have a friends at American Financing have a friends at American Financing have a better way. If you're looking to buy better way. If you're looking to buy better way. If you're looking to buy your first home or refinance your your first home or refinance your your first home or refinance your current one, they're helping Americans current one, they're helping Americans current one, they're helping Americans achieve the dream of home ownership with achieve the dream of home ownership with achieve the dream of home ownership with monthly mortgage rates currently in the monthly mortgage rates currently in the monthly mortgage rates currently in the fives. American Financing saves its fives. American Financing saves its fives. American Financing saves its customers an average of 800 bucks per customers an average of 800 bucks per customers an average of 800 bucks per month. That's nearly 10 grand every year month. That's nearly 10 grand every year month. That's nearly 10 grand every year back to you. This isn't just a loan.

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American flag flying over the ship. American flag flying over the ship. >> Yes. Uh >> Yes. Uh >> Yes. Uh our our initial flag was flying from our our initial flag was flying from our our initial flag was flying from Flagstaff at the back of the main uh Flagstaff at the back of the main uh Flagstaff at the back of the main uh mass that was knocked down in one of the mass that was knocked down in one of the mass that was knocked down in one of the first first first air air attacks. air air attacks. air air attacks. Uh our uh signalman our uh signalman ran that back up again. It was knocked ran that back up again. It was knocked ran that back up again. It was knocked down again. And then he ran up the down again. And then he ran up the down again. And then he ran up the holiday flag which is 5 ft by 8 ft. The holiday flag which is 5 ft by 8 ft. The holiday flag which is 5 ft by 8 ft. The largest flag we had aboard ship. largest flag we had aboard ship. largest flag we had aboard ship. That flag was literally riddled with That flag was literally riddled with That flag was literally riddled with shrapnel. He ran that up on the uh one shrapnel. He ran that up on the uh one shrapnel. He ran that up on the uh one of the port signal arms which is on a of the port signal arms which is on a of the port signal arms which is on a port side. port side. port side. But we had a good breeze blowing that But we had a good breeze blowing that But we had a good breeze blowing that day. The flag was out there. Pretty day. The flag was out there. Pretty day. The flag was out there. Pretty obvious. Uh obvious. Uh obvious. Uh Egyptian ships are painted black with Egyptian ships are painted black with Egyptian ships are painted black with hallmarkings in Arabic script. hallmarkings in Arabic script. hallmarkings in Arabic script. Um every highway sign in Israel is in Um every highway sign in Israel is in Um every highway sign in Israel is in Hebrew, Arabic script and English Hebrew, Arabic script and English Hebrew, Arabic script and English lettering.

lettering. lettering. So that excuse falls away. So that excuse falls away. So that excuse falls away. Um, US ships are painted gray with Um, US ships are painted gray with Um, US ships are painted gray with homemarkings in English lettering. homemarkings in English lettering. homemarkings in English lettering. Our hallmarking was GTR5, which stands Our hallmarking was GTR5, which stands Our hallmarking was GTR5, which stands for general technical research, the for general technical research, the for general technical research, the fifth, the newest of her class. fifth, the newest of her class. fifth, the newest of her class. Tatical research means that she's a Tatical research means that she's a Tatical research means that she's a non-combatant. It's a violation of non-combatant. It's a violation of non-combatant. It's a violation of international law to fire on international law to fire on international law to fire on non-combatants. non-combatants. non-combatants. The Israelis were wriggling our wife ras The Israelis were wriggling our wife ras The Israelis were wriggling our wife ras with machine gun fire. That's a with machine gun fire. That's a with machine gun fire. That's a violation of international law. The violation of international law. The violation of international law. The irony of that is that came about as a irony of that is that came about as a irony of that is that came about as a result of result of result of refugee ships refugee ships refugee ships being machine gunned by being machine gunned by being machine gunned by Nazi Wolfpacks during World War II. What Nazi Wolfpacks during World War II. What Nazi Wolfpacks during World War II. What did your commanding officers tell you did your commanding officers tell you did your commanding officers tell you about the motive for this attack? So, about the motive for this attack? So, about the motive for this attack? So, you're you're lying, recovering, you've you're you're lying, recovering, you've you're you're lying, recovering, you've got wounds to your face and your hands, got wounds to your face and your hands, got wounds to your face and your hands, and someone at some point tell explains and someone at some point tell explains and someone at some point tell explains to you why this happened. What did that to you why this happened. What did that to you why this happened. What did that person say?

person say? person say? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, honestly, I didn't hear anything. honestly, I didn't hear anything. honestly, I didn't hear anything. um years later when I reconnected with um years later when I reconnected with um years later when I reconnected with some of the crew and it was well over 20 some of the crew and it was well over 20 some of the crew and it was well over 20 years later before I reconnected with years later before I reconnected with years later before I reconnected with any of the crew. Uh I say it was 19 any of the crew. Uh I say it was 19 any of the crew. Uh I say it was 19 82 before I reconnected with any of the 82 before I reconnected with any of the 82 before I reconnected with any of the crew. So this is what 15 years crew. So this is what 15 years crew. So this is what 15 years afterwards. afterwards. afterwards. Um, Um, Um, I honestly didn't know. Most of us were pro- Israel that were Most of us were pro- Israel that were board the ship. board the ship. board the ship. It's kind of ironic at um, one of our It's kind of ironic at um, one of our It's kind of ironic at um, one of our analysts, analysts, analysts, um, um, um, he he was processing the United Arab he he was processing the United Arab he he was processing the United Arab Republic traffic that we were getting. Republic traffic that we were getting. Republic traffic that we were getting. He made a small U flag and had that He made a small U flag and had that He made a small U flag and had that stuck in his out basket. stuck in his out basket. stuck in his out basket. Most of the crew were smoking back then. Most of the crew were smoking back then. Most of the crew were smoking back then. They'd walk by said, "Hey, Rich, you They'd walk by said, "Hey, Rich, you They'd walk by said, "Hey, Rich, you your herbs aren't doing so well." And your herbs aren't doing so well." And your herbs aren't doing so well." And they set fire to his flag. He'd said, they set fire to his flag. He'd said, they set fire to his flag. He'd said, "No, cut that out. Put it out." One of "No, cut that out. Put it out." One of "No, cut that out. Put it out." One of the sailors had made a huge Star David the sailors had made a huge Star David the sailors had made a huge Star David out of teletype paper out of teletype paper out of teletype paper that was pasted up on the starboard that was pasted up on the starboard that was pasted up on the starboard bulkhead.

bulkhead. bulkhead. That Israeli torpedo struck within a few That Israeli torpedo struck within a few That Israeli torpedo struck within a few feet of that Star David flag. feet of that Star David flag. feet of that Star David flag. Did you talk about this after? Did you Did you talk about this after? Did you Did you talk about this after? Did you do interviews with the media? Did you do interviews with the media? Did you do interviews with the media? Did you tell your friends, your family? Like how tell your friends, your family? Like how tell your friends, your family? Like how did you respond to this once you did you respond to this once you did you respond to this once you recover? recover? recover? >> My situation was a little different. I >> My situation was a little different. I >> My situation was a little different. I was on temporary assignment from my home was on temporary assignment from my home was on temporary assignment from my home base in Burmava, Germany. It's 10 days base in Burmava, Germany. It's 10 days base in Burmava, Germany. It's 10 days aboard the carrier America. Uh flown aboard the carrier America. Uh flown aboard the carrier America. Uh flown back to uh Luca Malta where the ship was back to uh Luca Malta where the ship was back to uh Luca Malta where the ship was dry docked. dry docked. dry docked. Um, I was one more day aboard her there. Um, I was one more day aboard her there. Um, I was one more day aboard her there. This guy didn't have a place to sleep This guy didn't have a place to sleep This guy didn't have a place to sleep and one of the sailors said, "Uh, and one of the sailors said, "Uh, and one of the sailors said, "Uh, go up to Sid Bay and talk to Dr. Van go up to Sid Bay and talk to Dr. Van go up to Sid Bay and talk to Dr. Van Lane." Said, "He'll find you a place to Lane." Said, "He'll find you a place to Lane." Said, "He'll find you a place to sleep up there. sleep up there. sleep up there. We're kind of chatting. It was getting We're kind of chatting. It was getting We're kind of chatting. It was getting along late in the afternoon and he said, along late in the afternoon and he said, along late in the afternoon and he said, "You're welcome." There were three bunks "You're welcome." There were three bunks "You're welcome." There were three bunks there. He said, "You're welcome. Sleep there. He said, "You're welcome. Sleep there. He said, "You're welcome. Sleep in whichever one you want." I said, "I in whichever one you want." I said, "I in whichever one you want." I said, "I hope that doesn't get to stink in that hope that doesn't get to stink in that hope that doesn't get to stink in that night."

night." night." which that time which that time which that time there was a box in the corner roughly 18 there was a box in the corner roughly 18 there was a box in the corner roughly 18 in square. in square. in square. It was labeled unidentified human body It was labeled unidentified human body It was labeled unidentified human body parts. parts. parts. That's what's buried in the mass grave That's what's buried in the mass grave That's what's buried in the mass grave in Arlington National Cemetery and I in Arlington National Cemetery and I in Arlington National Cemetery and I slept over that night. slept over that night. slept over that night. Two of the men that work for me Two of the men that work for me Two of the men that work for me were in that box. What was left of that? were in that box. What was left of that? were in that box. What was left of that? Were you told by the the US military, by Were you told by the the US military, by Were you told by the the US military, by the Marine Corps, by the Navy uh not to the Marine Corps, by the Navy uh not to the Marine Corps, by the Navy uh not to talk about this? talk about this? talk about this? >> Um >> Um >> Um well, mind you, we're in intelligence well, mind you, we're in intelligence well, mind you, we're in intelligence business saying just don't talk about business saying just don't talk about business saying just don't talk about it. There's old saying, what you see it. There's old saying, what you see it. There's old saying, what you see here, what you say here. When you leave here, what you say here. When you leave here, what you say here. When you leave here, leave it here. here, leave it here. here, leave it here. >> Uh I did not talk about it outside of >> Uh I did not talk about it outside of >> Uh I did not talk about it outside of secure spaces. When I got back to my secure spaces. When I got back to my secure spaces. When I got back to my home base in Bremerhav and I was put on home base in Bremerhav and I was put on home base in Bremerhav and I was put on 12 on, 12 off watch. I talked about it 12 on, 12 off watch. I talked about it 12 on, 12 off watch. I talked about it rather freely in the secure spaces. My rather freely in the secure spaces. My rather freely in the secure spaces. My wife didn't know what happened to me.

wife didn't know what happened to me. wife didn't know what happened to me. Um, Um, Um, I was not supposed to tell him when I I was not supposed to tell him when I I was not supposed to tell him when I was aboard this ship, but no one was aboard this ship, but no one was aboard this ship, but no one bothered to tell me I wasn't. When I bothered to tell me I wasn't. When I bothered to tell me I wasn't. When I first got aboard her, the petty officer first got aboard her, the petty officer first got aboard her, the petty officer of the deck was a longtime friend of of the deck was a longtime friend of of the deck was a longtime friend of mine, Ronnie Campbell. I said, "Ronnie, mine, Ronnie Campbell. I said, "Ronnie, mine, Ronnie Campbell. I said, "Ronnie, I need to let Lois know where I'm at." I need to let Lois know where I'm at." I need to let Lois know where I'm at." said, "Can you give me the address of said, "Can you give me the address of said, "Can you give me the address of the ship?" Well, he gave me the FBO the ship?" Well, he gave me the FBO the ship?" Well, he gave me the FBO address and I got a postcard, wrote it address and I got a postcard, wrote it address and I got a postcard, wrote it on, told my wife I'd be aboard her. on, told my wife I'd be aboard her. on, told my wife I'd be aboard her. Don't know how long. I'll let you know Don't know how long. I'll let you know Don't know how long. I'll let you know sometime in the future. Dropped it in sometime in the future. Dropped it in sometime in the future. Dropped it in the mail. She'd received that card, knew the mail. She'd received that card, knew the mail. She'd received that card, knew I was aboard it. Um, on the 9th of June, I was aboard it. Um, on the 9th of June, I was aboard it. Um, on the 9th of June, a dear friend of hers that lived across a dear friend of hers that lived across a dear friend of hers that lived across the street in Bremer Hobin waved to her the street in Bremer Hobin waved to her the street in Bremer Hobin waved to her to come over. She went over and said, to come over. She went over and said, to come over. She went over and said, "Did you hear about that US ship being "Did you hear about that US ship being "Did you hear about that US ship being attacked?" I was, "Oh." attacked?" I was, "Oh." attacked?" I was, "Oh." She said, "Yeah, USS Liberty." She said, "Yeah, USS Liberty." She said, "Yeah, USS Liberty." My wife said, "I think Bryce is aboard My wife said, "I think Bryce is aboard My wife said, "I think Bryce is aboard that ship." Well, that set a panic that ship." Well, that set a panic that ship." Well, that set a panic button.

button. button. Um, Um, Um, when I got back when I got back when I got back home, home, home, um, I was a mess. I had to borrow a um, I was a mess. I had to borrow a um, I was a mess. I had to borrow a uniform from one of the Marines aboard uniform from one of the Marines aboard uniform from one of the Marines aboard the Carrier America. There happened to the Carrier America. There happened to the Carrier America. There happened to be a African-American be a African-American be a African-American Marine, same build that I was, real Marine, same build that I was, real Marine, same build that I was, real gentleman, gentleman, gentleman, uh, same rank as I was, loaning me a uh, same rank as I was, loaning me a uh, same rank as I was, loaning me a khaki uniform. I had to wear that khaki uniform. I had to wear that khaki uniform. I had to wear that uniform the next five days. And part of uniform the next five days. And part of uniform the next five days. And part of that was when I got back to the ship, that was when I got back to the ship, that was when I got back to the ship, that oil was everywhere. Everywhere you that oil was everywhere. Everywhere you that oil was everywhere. Everywhere you went, you get drops of that oil all over went, you get drops of that oil all over went, you get drops of that oil all over you. So, I stunk from that. I had fever you. So, I stunk from that. I had fever you. So, I stunk from that. I had fever blisters in my face and this yellowish blisters in my face and this yellowish blisters in my face and this yellowish puss was oozing out, dripping over the puss was oozing out, dripping over the puss was oozing out, dripping over the front of me. front of me. front of me. The morning I got back, couldn't get in The morning I got back, couldn't get in The morning I got back, couldn't get in the apartment, second floor apartment, the apartment, second floor apartment, the apartment, second floor apartment, the neighbor, Betty Bryant, came to the the neighbor, Betty Bryant, came to the the neighbor, Betty Bryant, came to the door, door, door, said, "Oh, Bry said, Lois went out to said, "Oh, Bry said, Lois went out to said, "Oh, Bry said, Lois went out to the base to get the mail." I said, "Come the base to get the mail." I said, "Come the base to get the mail." I said, "Come on in. I'll get you a cup of coffee." on in. I'll get you a cup of coffee." on in. I'll get you a cup of coffee." She sent me around behind the door, gave She sent me around behind the door, gave She sent me around behind the door, gave me a cup of coffee.

me a cup of coffee. me a cup of coffee. A while later, she said, "Oh, here she A while later, she said, "Oh, here she A while later, she said, "Oh, here she is now." Well, is now." Well, is now." Well, She just got in the mail and she had She just got in the mail and she had She just got in the mail and she had just gotten a letter from her mother just gotten a letter from her mother just gotten a letter from her mother that her grandfather had passed away. that her grandfather had passed away. that her grandfather had passed away. My wife didn't get along very well with My wife didn't get along very well with My wife didn't get along very well with her mother, but she was her her mother, but she was her her mother, but she was her grandfather's pride and joy. grandfather's pride and joy. grandfather's pride and joy. She's all broken up about that. She's all broken up about that. She's all broken up about that. Betty says, "Loris, you need to come in Betty says, "Loris, you need to come in Betty says, "Loris, you need to come in here. Three kids are there. See, here. Three kids are there. See, here. Three kids are there. See, Marshia, our oldest one, was six and Marshia, our oldest one, was six and Marshia, our oldest one, was six and Dorothy was four. John was um three Dorothy was four. John was um three Dorothy was four. John was um three and u I was the ugliest mess. Stumped to and u I was the ugliest mess. Stumped to and u I was the ugliest mess. Stumped to high heavens. high heavens. high heavens. Kids are screaming. My wife crying. Kids are screaming. My wife crying. Kids are screaming. My wife crying. The uh Marine commander calls me to his The uh Marine commander calls me to his The uh Marine commander calls me to his office the next day and says, "Best office the next day and says, "Best office the next day and says, "Best thing for you to do to forget about this thing for you to do to forget about this thing for you to do to forget about this is go to work. Put me on 12 hours on 12 is go to work. Put me on 12 hours on 12 is go to work. Put me on 12 hours on 12 hours off watch stand." I had to go to hours off watch stand." I had to go to hours off watch stand." I had to go to the doctor on my time off. get my wounds the doctor on my time off. get my wounds the doctor on my time off. get my wounds taken care of.

taken care of. taken care of. Um, the Navy set a JAG officer, Um, the Navy set a JAG officer, Um, the Navy set a JAG officer, Lieutenant Commander, all the way from Lieutenant Commander, all the way from Lieutenant Commander, all the way from Washington with a sheet of papers for Washington with a sheet of papers for Washington with a sheet of papers for him to sign. He never bothered to tell him to sign. He never bothered to tell him to sign. He never bothered to tell me personally, "You are not to talk me personally, "You are not to talk me personally, "You are not to talk about this." I talked about it freely in about this." I talked about it freely in about this." I talked about it freely in secure spaces because these fells, many secure spaces because these fells, many secure spaces because these fells, many of them had been aboard the Liberty of them had been aboard the Liberty of them had been aboard the Liberty or ships of her class doing the same or ships of her class doing the same or ships of her class doing the same task. If they weren't, they would be in task. If they weren't, they would be in task. If they weren't, they would be in the near future likelihood. the near future likelihood. the near future likelihood. So, they all were aware of it. So, I So, they all were aware of it. So, I So, they all were aware of it. So, I talked freely about it. But I did not talked freely about it. But I did not talked freely about it. But I did not tell my wife anything. She had no idea tell my wife anything. She had no idea tell my wife anything. She had no idea what was wrong with me. I'd wake up what was wrong with me. I'd wake up what was wrong with me. I'd wake up screaming and crying screaming and crying screaming and crying and she had no idea. and she had no idea. and she had no idea. And it wasn't until And it wasn't until And it wasn't until um um um I think it was January of 1981. I was in I think it was January of 1981. I was in I think it was January of 1981. I was in Bible college in Springfield, Missouri. Bible college in Springfield, Missouri. Bible college in Springfield, Missouri. Class was broken up over the Christmas Class was broken up over the Christmas Class was broken up over the Christmas holidays.

holidays. holidays. I'm sitting in homalyics class waiting I'm sitting in homalyics class waiting I'm sitting in homalyics class waiting for the class to start on Monday morning for the class to start on Monday morning for the class to start on Monday morning and one of my classmates comes in. He and one of my classmates comes in. He and one of my classmates comes in. He says, "Bryce, were you aboard a ship says, "Bryce, were you aboard a ship says, "Bryce, were you aboard a ship with torpedo?" with torpedo?" with torpedo?" I said, "How did you know about that?" I said, "How did you know about that?" I said, "How did you know about that?" Well, he had been in Texas Well, he had been in Texas Well, he had been in Texas over Christmas holiday. He was on his over Christmas holiday. He was on his over Christmas holiday. He was on his way back late in the evening listening way back late in the evening listening way back late in the evening listening National Public Radio program he used to National Public Radio program he used to National Public Radio program he used to run called Radio Reader. run called Radio Reader. run called Radio Reader. They were reading a book by James M. They were reading a book by James M. They were reading a book by James M. Manis Jr. Salt on the Liberty. Manis Jr. Salt on the Liberty. Manis Jr. Salt on the Liberty. And it was on page 86, the narration And it was on page 86, the narration And it was on page 86, the narration about what I had done that day. about what I had done that day. about what I had done that day. and my name was there. and my name was there. and my name was there. And it wasn't until I think the And it wasn't until I think the And it wasn't until I think the following year I'd taken a position as following year I'd taken a position as following year I'd taken a position as assistant pastor at a church in Key West assistant pastor at a church in Key West assistant pastor at a church in Key West and and and uh the city library librarian was a uh the city library librarian was a uh the city library librarian was a member of the church and I asked her if member of the church and I asked her if member of the church and I asked her if she had a copy of that book. She said, she had a copy of that book. She said, she had a copy of that book. She said, "Yeah, but there's a six months long "Yeah, but there's a six months long "Yeah, but there's a six months long waiting list for us." Well, put me on waiting list for us." Well, put me on waiting list for us." Well, put me on the list. when it became available, the list. when it became available, the list. when it became available, I immediately wrote a letter to uh I immediately wrote a letter to uh I immediately wrote a letter to uh Random House Publishers and said, "I'd Random House Publishers and said, "I'd Random House Publishers and said, "I'd like to get a hold of the author, James like to get a hold of the author, James like to get a hold of the author, James Atis." They said, "Well, we can't give Atis." They said, "Well, we can't give Atis." They said, "Well, we can't give you his information, but we'll forward you his information, but we'll forward you his information, but we'll forward your letter to him." Uh just a few days your letter to him." Uh just a few days your letter to him." Uh just a few days after that, I got a thick packet of mail after that, I got a thick packet of mail after that, I got a thick packet of mail from Mr. Andis. had copies of the uh the from Mr. Andis. had copies of the uh the from Mr. Andis. had copies of the uh the ship had a newsletter that they put out

ship had a newsletter that they put out ship had a newsletter that they put out and mail to all the crew, but they and mail to all the crew, but they and mail to all the crew, but they didn't know where I was until then back didn't know where I was until then back didn't know where I was until then back issues and um a list of survivors, their issues and um a list of survivors, their issues and um a list of survivors, their contact information. I immediately contact information. I immediately contact information. I immediately started calling the crew, but it wasn't started calling the crew, but it wasn't started calling the crew, but it wasn't until until until I think 1986 I think 1986 I think 1986 we had a reunion in uh we had a reunion in uh we had a reunion in uh Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That was the first Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That was the first Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That was the first one that I went to. one that I went to. one that I went to. There was a library in Grafton, There was a library in Grafton, There was a library in Grafton, Wisconsin, about 30 miles north of Wisconsin, about 30 miles north of Wisconsin, about 30 miles north of Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Milwaukee. Um the town had built a new high school. Um the town had built a new high school. Um the town had built a new high school. The old high school was old building The old high school was old building The old high school was old building that roughly a century old but perfectly that roughly a century old but perfectly that roughly a century old but perfectly service serviceable and the town wanted service serviceable and the town wanted service serviceable and the town wanted to make that a public library. So they to make that a public library. So they to make that a public library. So they had a committee to raise funds. Um there had a committee to raise funds. Um there had a committee to raise funds. Um there are a couple industrial donors at Grove are a couple industrial donors at Grove are a couple industrial donors at Grove Brothers. Brothers. Brothers. Uh Ted Group was one of them gave six Uh Ted Group was one of them gave six Uh Ted Group was one of them gave six figure donation. Mind you, 40 years ago figure donation. Mind you, 40 years ago figure donation. Mind you, 40 years ago was pretty high sum of money.

was pretty high sum of money. was pretty high sum of money. So the committee said, "Well, we'll give So the committee said, "Well, we'll give So the committee said, "Well, we'll give you the privilege of naming the you the privilege of naming the you the privilege of naming the library." library." library." And he said, "Well, I'd like that to be And he said, "Well, I'd like that to be And he said, "Well, I'd like that to be named the USS Liberty Memorial Library." Well, during World War II, not far from Well, during World War II, not far from Grafton, Wisconsin, Grafton, Wisconsin, Grafton, Wisconsin, was a Nazi youth camp. Can you imagine what that implied for Can you imagine what that implied for the Jewish population of the city of the Jewish population of the city of the Jewish population of the city of Milwaukee Milwaukee Milwaukee that raised a firestorm but it went forward and to the best of but it went forward and to the best of my knowledge there was no violence at my knowledge there was no violence at my knowledge there was no violence at all all all and to this day it's still the USS and to this day it's still the USS and to this day it's still the USS liberty. So, but that was 19 years after liberty. So, but that was 19 years after liberty. So, but that was 19 years after the attack and and I remember 1986 the attack and and I remember 1986 the attack and and I remember 1986 7 that at that time um the consensus was 7 that at that time um the consensus was 7 that at that time um the consensus was that this was an accident. Like if you that this was an accident. Like if you that this was an accident. Like if you learned about the USS Liberty at school, learned about the USS Liberty at school, learned about the USS Liberty at school, which you probably didn't, but if you which you probably didn't, but if you which you probably didn't, but if you did, you would be taught that this was a did, you would be taught that this was a did, you would be taught that this was a case of mistaken identity, that the case of mistaken identity, that the case of mistaken identity, that the Israelis thought it was an Egyptian Israelis thought it was an Egyptian Israelis thought it was an Egyptian ship.

ship. ship. >> Well, I suppose you could claim that the >> Well, I suppose you could claim that the >> Well, I suppose you could claim that the Israeli pilots were color blind. The Israeli pilots were color blind. The Israeli pilots were color blind. The gypsy ships are painted black and ours gypsy ships are painted black and ours gypsy ships are painted black and ours are painted gray. You can't jam destruction frequencies by You can't jam destruction frequencies by accident. You must know your target. accident. You must know your target. accident. You must know your target. So that falls by the wayside. So that falls by the wayside. So that falls by the wayside. The machine gun hanging life rafts. The machine gun hanging life rafts. The machine gun hanging life rafts. That's pretty obvious. That's a That's pretty obvious. That's a That's pretty obvious. That's a violation of violation of violation of accepted law. How did it make you feel as a survivor How did it make you feel as a survivor of the attack to hear people dismiss it of the attack to hear people dismiss it of the attack to hear people dismiss it as a case of mistaken identity? >> Well, at that time I had a small >> Well, at that time I had a small trucking company and it was a you pretty trucking company and it was a you pretty trucking company and it was a you pretty well had to work around the clock if I I well had to work around the clock if I I well had to work around the clock if I I had a grain hauling business. Two had a grain hauling business. Two had a grain hauling business. Two trucks, three trailers. When I wasn't trucks, three trailers. When I wasn't trucks, three trailers. When I wasn't booking loads, I was hauling loads. So, booking loads, I was hauling loads. So, booking loads, I was hauling loads. So, I wasn't booking or hauling loads. I was I wasn't booking or hauling loads. I was I wasn't booking or hauling loads. I was under changing the oil or fixing this or under changing the oil or fixing this or under changing the oil or fixing this or fixing that. I barely had time to think.

fixing that. I barely had time to think. fixing that. I barely had time to think. It really wasn't till sometime after It really wasn't till sometime after It really wasn't till sometime after that where uh I happened to get a job that where uh I happened to get a job that where uh I happened to get a job with a union company. I had a little with a union company. I had a little with a union company. I had a little more income coming in. We were able to more income coming in. We were able to more income coming in. We were able to attend a reunion in Washington DC. And attend a reunion in Washington DC. And attend a reunion in Washington DC. And that's where I began to really find out that's where I began to really find out that's where I began to really find out about what all had taken place. That was about what all had taken place. That was about what all had taken place. That was um later in the 1980s, um later in the 1980s, um later in the 1980s, early 1990s. early 1990s. early 1990s. >> And what what did you find out? >> Um >> Um I didn't know the names of any fells I didn't know the names of any fells I didn't know the names of any fells that I pulled out or was credited with that I pulled out or was credited with that I pulled out or was credited with saving their lives. Joe Lentini, saving their lives. Joe Lentini, saving their lives. Joe Lentini, um even though I kept him from drowning, um even though I kept him from drowning, um even though I kept him from drowning, I didn't actually get him out of there. I didn't actually get him out of there. I didn't actually get him out of there. Dave McFagen. It was not until uh 1997, Dave McFagen. It was not until uh 1997, Dave McFagen. It was not until uh 1997, a reunion 1997 I found out who that was. a reunion 1997 I found out who that was. a reunion 1997 I found out who that was. It was pretty ironic. Um he was in the It was pretty ironic. Um he was in the It was pretty ironic. Um he was in the hospital at Naples, Italy. He'd taken hospital at Naples, Italy. He'd taken hospital at Naples, Italy. He'd taken some shrapnel on his privates.

some shrapnel on his privates. some shrapnel on his privates. Doctors told him he'd probably never Doctors told him he'd probably never Doctors told him he'd probably never have any more children. Well, he did have any more children. Well, he did have any more children. Well, he did have he had a boy and a girl at that have he had a boy and a girl at that have he had a boy and a girl at that reunion. Um, one of the other fells that reunion. Um, one of the other fells that reunion. Um, one of the other fells that I thought that I had brought out of I thought that I had brought out of I thought that I had brought out of there was there was there was Harold 6. Jean 6. Jean was his nickname. Harold 6. Jean 6. Jean was his nickname. Harold 6. Jean 6. Jean was his nickname. And he and I were having a beer, kind of And he and I were having a beer, kind of And he and I were having a beer, kind of joking around. And someone else came in. joking around. And someone else came in. joking around. And someone else came in. We that tub in the bathroom was full of We that tub in the bathroom was full of We that tub in the bathroom was full of ice water and beer. ice water and beer. ice water and beer. We're in there yakking and someone came We're in there yakking and someone came We're in there yakking and someone came in and said, "Hey, Sergeant, there's in and said, "Hey, Sergeant, there's in and said, "Hey, Sergeant, there's another guy here to save his life." another guy here to save his life." another guy here to save his life." Really? Really? Really? went out into the other room and there's went out into the other room and there's went out into the other room and there's Dave McFagan in a wheelchair with his Dave McFagan in a wheelchair with his Dave McFagan in a wheelchair with his daughter born later after the attack daughter born later after the attack daughter born later after the attack pushing him in a wheelchair. pushing him in a wheelchair. pushing him in a wheelchair. Now, uh the the anniversary the 59th Now, uh the the anniversary the 59th Now, uh the the anniversary the 59th anniversary of the attack on the Liberty anniversary of the attack on the Liberty anniversary of the attack on the Liberty was just the other day within the last was just the other day within the last was just the other day within the last week and it was a topic that was week and it was a topic that was week and it was a topic that was discussed in public and you heard people discussed in public and you heard people discussed in public and you heard people defend the Israeli government by saying defend the Israeli government by saying defend the Israeli government by saying they didn't know it was an American ship they didn't know it was an American ship they didn't know it was an American ship and anyone who says otherwise is an and anyone who says otherwise is an and anyone who says otherwise is an anti-semite, hates Jews. How would you anti-semite, hates Jews. How would you anti-semite, hates Jews. How would you respond to that? Anyone respond to that? Anyone respond to that? Anyone who knows anything about international who knows anything about international who knows anything about international recognition of ships at sea recognition of ships at sea recognition of ships at sea would would would conclude differently would have to conclude differently would have to conclude differently would have to conclude differently.

conclude differently. conclude differently. It's very obvious that it was a dual It's very obvious that it was a dual It's very obvious that it was a dual attack. attack. attack. Um Dave Lewis prior to his death Um Dave Lewis prior to his death Um Dave Lewis prior to his death was giving an interview and he said if was giving an interview and he said if was giving an interview and he said if it was an attack it was the best planned it was an attack it was the best planned it was an attack it was the best planned attack in military. attack in military. attack in military. The ammunition that they were using The ammunition that they were using The ammunition that they were using targets that they were doing heat targets that they were doing heat targets that they were doing heat seeeking missiles designed to knock out seeeking missiles designed to knock out seeeking missiles designed to knock out all of our trans heavy transmitting all of our trans heavy transmitting all of our trans heavy transmitting antennas. antennas. antennas. It had to all be planned in advance. The upshot in my opinion the whole thing The upshot in my opinion the whole thing um um um Israel is grabbing Palestinian lands. Gaza strip in total rubble. 70,000 Gaza strip in total rubble. 70,000 documented killed probably twice that documented killed probably twice that documented killed probably twice that many buried in the rubble that could many buried in the rubble that could many buried in the rubble that could never be recovered from the time it's never be recovered from the time it's never be recovered from the time it's elapsed.

elapsed. elapsed. United States supplying the bombs. United States supplying the bombs. United States supplying the bombs. Israel invading their neighbors to the Israel invading their neighbors to the Israel invading their neighbors to the north, Lebanon. north, Lebanon. north, Lebanon. There are a million Palestinians in the There are a million Palestinians in the There are a million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, homeless Gaza Strip, homeless Gaza Strip, homeless as a result of Israel's actions. as a result of Israel's actions. as a result of Israel's actions. Lebanon, southern Lebanon, whole towns Lebanon, southern Lebanon, whole towns Lebanon, southern Lebanon, whole towns destroyed and leveled. A million destroyed and leveled. A million destroyed and leveled. A million Lebanese Lebanese Lebanese refugees without a home. refugees without a home. refugees without a home. Where is the humanity? Where is the humanity? Where is the humanity? Shouldn't that be on the conscience of Shouldn't that be on the conscience of Shouldn't that be on the conscience of every American that we're supplying the every American that we're supplying the every American that we're supplying the bonds bonds bonds that we're supplying Israel with $3.8 that we're supplying Israel with $3.8 that we're supplying Israel with $3.8 billion a year in foreign aid? billion a year in foreign aid? billion a year in foreign aid? Shouldn't that shake our conscience? Shouldn't that shake our conscience? Shouldn't that shake our conscience? Well, if our leaders were able to ignore Well, if our leaders were able to ignore Well, if our leaders were able to ignore an attack on an American vessel, the the an attack on an American vessel, the the an attack on an American vessel, the the Liberty almost 60 years ago, Liberty almost 60 years ago, Liberty almost 60 years ago, clearly this is not a normal clearly this is not a normal clearly this is not a normal relationship between the United States relationship between the United States relationship between the United States and Israel.

and Israel. and Israel. What country ignores an attack on its What country ignores an attack on its What country ignores an attack on its own navy? own navy? own navy? Tucker. In 2005, Tucker. In 2005, Tucker. In 2005, Stephen Rosen, who was then a senior Stephen Rosen, who was then a senior Stephen Rosen, who was then a senior official with the American Israel official with the American Israel official with the American Israel Political Affairs Committee, Political Affairs Committee, Political Affairs Committee, was dying with Jeffrey Goldberg. At that was dying with Jeffrey Goldberg. At that was dying with Jeffrey Goldberg. At that time, time, time, he was uh with the New Yorker magazine. he was uh with the New Yorker magazine. he was uh with the New Yorker magazine. I believe he's with Atlantic magazine I believe he's with Atlantic magazine I believe he's with Atlantic magazine now. now. now. He said to Jeffrey, "You see this He said to Jeffrey, "You see this He said to Jeffrey, "You see this napkin? In 24 hours, napkin? In 24 hours, napkin? In 24 hours, I can have the signature of 70 senators I can have the signature of 70 senators I can have the signature of 70 senators on this napkin." Does that tell you something about who Does that tell you something about who runs America? runs America? runs America? >> How does that make you feel as someone >> How does that make you feel as someone >> How does that make you feel as someone who was wounded in the service of the US who was wounded in the service of the US who was wounded in the service of the US military, in the service of the United military, in the service of the United military, in the service of the United States? States? States? >> Disgusted. Yeah.

Yeah. Why hand it to Thomas Massie? Uh Why hand it to Thomas Massie? Uh Why hand it to Thomas Massie? Uh >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. uh his political career was over. The uh his political career was over. The uh his political career was over. The president president president and his political affairs and his political affairs and his political affairs supporters literally threw millions of supporters literally threw millions of supporters literally threw millions of dollars at Thomas Massiey's dollars at Thomas Massiey's dollars at Thomas Massiey's uh primary campaign and got him pitched uh primary campaign and got him pitched uh primary campaign and got him pitched off the ballot. off the ballot. off the ballot. And Congressman Nassie stuck his neck And Congressman Nassie stuck his neck And Congressman Nassie stuck his neck out by speaking publicly from the floor out by speaking publicly from the floor out by speaking publicly from the floor of the United States Congress. of the United States Congress. of the United States Congress. There were uh roughly 15 perhaps 17 of There were uh roughly 15 perhaps 17 of There were uh roughly 15 perhaps 17 of us survivors that were there, family us survivors that were there, family us survivors that were there, family members sitting in the gallery when he members sitting in the gallery when he members sitting in the gallery when he gave his five plus minute speech on the gave his five plus minute speech on the gave his five plus minute speech on the USS Liberty USS Liberty USS Liberty urging a Congress to take action. urging a Congress to take action. urging a Congress to take action. Article 1, section 8, US Constitution Article 1, section 8, US Constitution Article 1, section 8, US Constitution to to to uh this is not exact wording, uh this is not exact wording, uh this is not exact wording, investigate investigate investigate uh acts of piracy on the high seas and uh acts of piracy on the high seas and uh acts of piracy on the high seas and offenses against the law of nations. And offenses against the law of nations. And offenses against the law of nations. And Congress has ignored that for the past Congress has ignored that for the past Congress has ignored that for the past 59 years. Now, here Thomas Massie sticks 59 years. Now, here Thomas Massie sticks 59 years. Now, here Thomas Massie sticks his neck out.

his neck out. his neck out. Um, Um, Um, the gentleman the gentleman the gentleman took us all to lunch afterwards at the took us all to lunch afterwards at the took us all to lunch afterwards at the bull feather restaurant there in bull feather restaurant there in bull feather restaurant there in Washington. I think that name is rather Washington. I think that name is rather Washington. I think that name is rather ironic. bull feathers ironic. bull feathers ironic. bull feathers treated us to lunch personally met each treated us to lunch personally met each treated us to lunch personally met each one of us while we were there. That one of us while we were there. That one of us while we were there. That day's speaker prom of the congress Daryl day's speaker prom of the congress Daryl day's speaker prom of the congress Daryl Isa came in personally shook hands with Isa came in personally shook hands with Isa came in personally shook hands with every crew member introduced himself every crew member introduced himself every crew member introduced himself around around around made a few jokes about that jarhead that made a few jokes about that jarhead that made a few jokes about that jarhead that was a border and was a border and was a border and um another congressman also came in um another congressman also came in um another congressman also came in Congressman McGuire Congressman McGuire Congressman McGuire same thing introduced himself around same thing introduced himself around same thing introduced himself around um um um it left me with a wonderful feeling it left me with a wonderful feeling it left me with a wonderful feeling Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps something can be done after 59 years to something can be done after 59 years to something can be done after 59 years to wake Congress up wake Congress up wake Congress up to their obligation to their obligation to their obligation to humanity to humanity to humanity to do the right thing.

to do the right thing. to do the right thing. >> What would you like to see Congress do? >> What would you like to see Congress do? >> What would you like to see Congress do? An open investigation An open investigation An open investigation while some of us are still alive to while some of us are still alive to while some of us are still alive to testify. testify. testify. Let all the dirty laundry hang out Let all the dirty laundry hang out Let all the dirty laundry hang out there. there. there. If there are charges to be charged, If there are charges to be charged, If there are charges to be charged, bring them forward. bring them forward. bring them forward. Just air it out and let the American Just air it out and let the American Just air it out and let the American people, people, people, the world's public at large, make up the world's public at large, make up the world's public at large, make up their own their own their own when they see the facts laid bare. when they see the facts laid bare. when they see the facts laid bare. It's the same thing with the Epstein It's the same thing with the Epstein It's the same thing with the Epstein files, hiding it. files, hiding it. files, hiding it. Let it hang out. Let us all look at it. Let it hang out. Let us all look at it. Let it hang out. Let us all look at it. If someone's guilty, fine, charge them. If someone's guilty, fine, charge them. If someone's guilty, fine, charge them. Sure, there's going to be some big time Sure, there's going to be some big time Sure, there's going to be some big time names. Sure, there's going to be some names. Sure, there's going to be some names. Sure, there's going to be some billionaires involved. I'm just a little billionaires involved. I'm just a little billionaires involved. I'm just a little guy. I'm not even a millionaire. Fine, guy. I'm not even a millionaire. Fine, guy. I'm not even a millionaire. Fine, come get me. come get me. come get me. >> Do you think that'll happen? >> Do you think that'll happen? >> Do you think that'll happen? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. Don't care.

Don't care. Don't care. >> Well, I'm grateful you you did this >> Well, I'm grateful you you did this >> Well, I'm grateful you you did this interview, Mr. Lockwood, and interview, Mr. Lockwood, and interview, Mr. Lockwood, and >> Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor. >> Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor. >> Oh, Tucker, this is such an honor. >> It's an honor for me. Ray McGovern's a >> It's an honor for me. Ray McGovern's a >> It's an honor for me. Ray McGovern's a rascal by the way. >> He's a good man. Thank you. Thank you >> He's a good man. Thank you. Thank you for for telling your story and I hope for for telling your story and I hope for for telling your story and I hope the Congress listens. the Congress listens. the Congress listens. >> I the uh chain of events is kind of >> I the uh chain of events is kind of >> I the uh chain of events is kind of screwed up. Just screwed up. Just screwed up. Just I I couldn't recall names today. Just I I couldn't recall names today. Just I I couldn't recall names today. Just I'm pretty tired for one thing. uh did I'm pretty tired for one thing. uh did I'm pretty tired for one thing. uh did that interview yesterday with Rick that interview yesterday with Rick that interview yesterday with Rick Sanchez. Sanchez. Sanchez. Did a interview day before yesterday Did a interview day before yesterday Did a interview day before yesterday with uh Pedro Garos. with uh Pedro Garos. with uh Pedro Garos. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Uhhuh. >> Um K radio, Austin, Texas. >> Um K radio, Austin, Texas. >> Um K radio, Austin, Texas. >> By the way, he said to tell you my >> By the way, he said to tell you my >> By the way, he said to tell you my audience is a lot bigger than his. That's amazing. How was Rick Sanchez?

That's amazing. How was Rick Sanchez? >> Oh, he was such a gentleman. >> Oh, he was such a gentleman. >> Oh, he was such a gentleman. >> He is a nice man. Yeah. >> He is a nice man. Yeah. >> He is a nice man. Yeah. >> He says you were friends. Long time >> He says you were friends. Long time >> He says you were friends. Long time friends. friends. friends. >> I've known him a long time. A long time. >> I've known him a long time. A long time. >> I've known him a long time. A long time. H Well, I hope this brings shame to the H Well, I hope this brings shame to the H Well, I hope this brings shame to the people who are denying it. I really do. people who are denying it. I really do. people who are denying it. I really do. >> It should. >> It should. >> It should. I'm not sure how effective I was, but uh I'm not sure how effective I was, but uh I'm not sure how effective I was, but uh >> you were very effective and your recall >> you were very effective and your recall >> you were very effective and your recall is unbelievable. Are you Are you still is unbelievable. Are you Are you still is unbelievable. Are you Are you still preaching? preaching? preaching? >> No, I haven't preached in 40 years. >> No, I haven't preached in 40 years. >> No, I haven't preached in 40 years. Preaching doesn't pay very well when Preaching doesn't pay very well when Preaching doesn't pay very well when you're honest. you're honest. you're honest. >> No. And you have a daughter called >> No. And you have a daughter called >> No. And you have a daughter called Dorothy? Dorothy? Dorothy? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Um Um Um >> I have a daughter called Dorothy. >> I have a daughter called Dorothy. >> I have a daughter called Dorothy. >> She goes by D. She worked her way >> She goes by D. She worked her way >> She goes by D. She worked her way through Missouri State University as a through Missouri State University as a through Missouri State University as a speech pathologist. She waitressed in speech pathologist. She waitressed in speech pathologist. She waitressed in Red Lobster in Springfield. And she got Red Lobster in Springfield. And she got Red Lobster in Springfield. And she got a little tired of folks asking where a little tired of folks asking where a little tired of folks asking where Toto was started to call herself be. She has a started to call herself be. She has a garden gift shop in Knoxville, garden gift shop in Knoxville, garden gift shop in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Tennessee. Tennessee. Tucker, you know you're old when your Tucker, you know you're old when your Tucker, you know you're old when your kids are all retired. kids are all retired. kids are all retired. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yes, that is true. Are your kids really Yes, that is true. Are your kids really Yes, that is true. Are your kids really retired? Yes, they are. My youngest is retired? Yes, they are. My youngest is retired? Yes, they are. My youngest is uh 62. uh 62. uh 62. He medically retired. He had a terrible He medically retired. He had a terrible He medically retired. He had a terrible accident while he's in the Air Force. My accident while he's in the Air Force. My accident while he's in the Air Force. My oldest daughter, oldest daughter, oldest daughter, Marsha, has a doctorate in gifted Marsha, has a doctorate in gifted Marsha, has a doctorate in gifted children. She retired children. She retired children. She retired three years ago, I think. 30 years three years ago, I think. 30 years three years ago, I think. 30 years public school teacher, gifted children, public school teacher, gifted children, public school teacher, gifted children, middle school, Washington Irving Middle middle school, Washington Irving Middle middle school, Washington Irving Middle School. School. School. Well, thank you for taking the time to Well, thank you for taking the time to Well, thank you for taking the time to do this, Mr. Lockwood. That was great. do this, Mr. Lockwood. That was great. do this, Mr. Lockwood. That was great. >> My my privilege, Tucker.