Kerry O’Brien Krueger: A Missing Mother, an Impossible Trip and a Broken Timeline

The story I have for you today is one I The story I have for you today is one I can't believe I'd never heard of, but it can't believe I'd never heard of, but it can't believe I'd never heard of, but it came to us straight from the came to us straight from the came to us straight from the investigator who's trying to solve this investigator who's trying to solve this investigator who's trying to solve this mystery. And he needs your help. Because mystery. And he needs your help. Because mystery. And he needs your help. Because the truth of what happened to one the truth of what happened to one the truth of what happened to one Wisconsin woman back in 1989 might be Wisconsin woman back in 1989 might be Wisconsin woman back in 1989 might be right in front of him in two important right in front of him in two important right in front of him in two important clues he holds, but he needs the help of clues he holds, but he needs the help of clues he holds, but he needs the help of our crime junkies to interpret them. One our crime junkies to interpret them. One our crime junkies to interpret them. One of you might be able to help solve the of you might be able to help solve the of you might be able to help solve the mystery of what happened to Carrie mystery of what happened to Carrie mystery of what happened to Carrie O'Brien Krueger. Hi, crime junkies. I am still your host, Hi, crime junkies. I am still your host, Ashley Flowers, Ashley Flowers, Ashley Flowers, >> and I'm still Brit, >> and I'm still Brit, >> and I'm still Brit, >> but new studio. Who this? [laughter] >> but new studio. Who this? [laughter] >> but new studio. Who this? [laughter] As you can see, we had a full set As you can see, we had a full set As you can see, we had a full set redesign, redesign, redesign, >> new and improved graphics, too. a little >> new and improved graphics, too. a little >> new and improved graphics, too. a little glow up and grow up as the show glow up and grow up as the show glow up and grow up as the show continues to evolve. continues to evolve. continues to evolve. >> Yeah, you guys, when we started doing >> Yeah, you guys, when we started doing >> Yeah, you guys, when we started doing video, it happened kind of on a whim, video, it happened kind of on a whim, video, it happened kind of on a whim, but this did not. but this did not. but this did not. >> To be fair, you did redecorate like the >> To be fair, you did redecorate like the >> To be fair, you did redecorate like the entire set last night. This is true.

entire set last night. This is true. entire set last night. This is true. This morning, this is true. I should This morning, this is true. I should This morning, this is true. I should give you guys the before and after give you guys the before and after give you guys the before and after sometime, but most of this, like the sometime, but most of this, like the sometime, but most of this, like the core of this, the team worked really core of this, the team worked really core of this, the team worked really hard on for months and months and hard on for months and months and hard on for months and months and months, and now we're like a legit months, and now we're like a legit months, and now we're like a legit operation. operation. operation. >> Yeah. We even have like a control room >> Yeah. We even have like a control room >> Yeah. We even have like a control room and like every It looks so real. and like every It looks so real. and like every It looks so real. >> This is so much bigger than when we >> This is so much bigger than when we >> This is so much bigger than when we first started almost 9 years ago. But we first started almost 9 years ago. But we first started almost 9 years ago. But we are still here to do the exact same are still here to do the exact same are still here to do the exact same thing, which is to bring you into the thing, which is to bring you into the thing, which is to bring you into the room with your two best friends and tell room with your two best friends and tell room with your two best friends and tell you important stories. So, let's dive you important stories. So, let's dive you important stories. So, let's dive in, shall we? in, shall we? in, shall we? It's December 1989 in Wisconsin, [music] It's December 1989 in Wisconsin, [music] It's December 1989 in Wisconsin, [music] and with the holidays right around the and with the holidays right around the and with the holidays right around the corner, 19-year-old Molly O'Brien is corner, 19-year-old Molly O'Brien is corner, 19-year-old Molly O'Brien is getting into the spirit. She's spending getting into the spirit. She's spending getting into the spirit. She's spending the chilly night curled up in her the chilly night curled up in her the chilly night curled up in her Milwaukee dorm room watching The Milwaukee dorm room watching The Milwaukee dorm room watching The Nutcracker with her roommate and her Nutcracker with her roommate and her Nutcracker with her roommate and her boyfriend. Suddenly, [music] her boyfriend. Suddenly, [music] her boyfriend. Suddenly, [music] her landline rings, and it's her landline rings, and it's her landline rings, and it's her brother-in-law, Tracy Krueger, which brother-in-law, Tracy Krueger, which brother-in-law, Tracy Krueger, which isn't strange. He's married to Molly's isn't strange. He's married to Molly's isn't strange. He's married to Molly's 32-year-old [music] 32-year-old [music] 32-year-old [music] sister, Carrie. And Molly's close with sister, Carrie. And Molly's close with sister, Carrie. And Molly's close with both of them. But what he's asking is both of them. But what he's asking is both of them. But what he's asking is [music] odd. He wants to know if Carrie [music] odd. He wants to know if Carrie [music] odd. He wants to know if Carrie is with her. Now, Molly spends plenty of is with her. Now, Molly spends plenty of is with her. Now, Molly spends plenty of time with Carrie, Tracy, and their time with Carrie, Tracy, and their time with Carrie, Tracy, and their three-year-old daughter, but it is three-year-old daughter, but it is three-year-old daughter, but it is always at their house an hour away in always at their house an hour away in always at their house an hour away in Burlington, Wisconsin. [music] Burlington, Wisconsin. [music] Burlington, Wisconsin. [music] Carrie doesn't just like randomly stop Carrie doesn't just like randomly stop Carrie doesn't just like randomly stop by her dorm room. So, she tells him no.

by her dorm room. So, she tells him no. by her dorm room. So, she tells him no. And that's when Tracy starts laying it And that's when Tracy starts laying it And that's when Tracy starts laying it all out why he's concerned. The night all out why he's concerned. The night all out why he's concerned. The night before, this would [music] have been before, this would [music] have been before, this would [music] have been Tuesday, December 5th, 1989, he says Tuesday, December 5th, 1989, he says Tuesday, December 5th, 1989, he says that Carrie got this call at around 8:30 that Carrie got this call at around 8:30 that Carrie got this call at around 8:30 p.m. Tracy thinks it was maybe her p.m. Tracy thinks it was maybe her p.m. Tracy thinks it was maybe her manager Jim calling. Carrie works in PR manager Jim calling. Carrie works in PR manager Jim calling. Carrie works in PR for Gander Mountain, this like hunting for Gander Mountain, this like hunting for Gander Mountain, this like hunting and sporting goods company. And when she and sporting goods company. And when she and sporting goods company. And when she hung up, she told Tracy that she had to hung up, she told Tracy that she had to hung up, she told Tracy that she had to fill in for somebody the next day at fill in for somebody the next day at fill in for somebody the next day at this trade show in Wyoming. And that this trade show in Wyoming. And that this trade show in Wyoming. And that would have been this day, like the day would have been this day, like the day would have been this day, like the day that he's calling Molly, Wednesday, that he's calling Molly, Wednesday, that he's calling Molly, Wednesday, December 6th. Now, Jim was supposed to December 6th. Now, Jim was supposed to December 6th. Now, Jim was supposed to swing by and drive them both to Chicago swing by and drive them both to Chicago swing by and drive them both to Chicago so they could catch an early flight. so they could catch an early flight. so they could catch an early flight. [music] Tracy says that Carrie got up [music] Tracy says that Carrie got up [music] Tracy says that Carrie got up super early, left before dawn, like 4 or super early, left before dawn, like 4 or super early, left before dawn, like 4 or 4:30 in the morning after a goodbye kiss 4:30 in the morning after a goodbye kiss 4:30 in the morning after a goodbye kiss and a reminder to take good care of and a reminder to take good care of and a reminder to take good care of their daughter while [music] she was their daughter while [music] she was their daughter while [music] she was gone. But a few hours later, after Tracy gone. But a few hours later, after Tracy gone. But a few hours later, after Tracy had gotten their daughter off to the had gotten their daughter off to the had gotten their daughter off to the babysitter and he was at work, he got a babysitter and he was at work, he got a babysitter and he was at work, he got a message that Jim was trying to reach message that Jim was trying to reach message that Jim was trying to reach [music] him. And what Jim said was [music] him. And what Jim said was [music] him. And what Jim said was really weird because he wanted to know really weird because he wanted to know really weird because he wanted to know where Carrie was. She had pulled a no where Carrie was. She had pulled a no where Carrie was. She had pulled a no call, no show at work for the first call, no show at work for the first call, no show at work for the first [music] time ever. And Tracy says that [music] time ever. And Tracy says that [music] time ever. And Tracy says that he's like confused. He's like, "What do he's like confused. He's like, "What do he's like confused. He's like, "What do you mean where is she?" Like she's with you mean where is she?" Like she's with you mean where is she?" Like she's with you in Wyoming.

you in Wyoming. you in Wyoming. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But Jim had no clue what he was talking >> But Jim had no clue what he was talking >> But Jim had no clue what he was talking about because it turns out there was no about because it turns out there was no about because it turns out there was no trade show. And Carrie would know that. trade show. And Carrie would know that. trade show. And Carrie would know that. Tracking the trade shows is literally Tracking the trade shows is literally Tracking the trade shows is literally part of her job. Now, the more Tracy part of her job. Now, the more Tracy part of her job. Now, the more Tracy talks, the sicker Molly feels because talks, the sicker Molly feels because talks, the sicker Molly feels because there is one thing that Molly is sure there is one thing that Molly is sure there is one thing that Molly is sure of. [music] Carrie would never leave her of. [music] Carrie would never leave her of. [music] Carrie would never leave her daughter. So, if no one can find her, daughter. So, if no one can find her, daughter. So, if no one can find her, [music] she's sure right then and there [music] she's sure right then and there [music] she's sure right then and there that something bad happened. But Tracy that something bad happened. But Tracy that something bad happened. But Tracy tries to keep her calm. He's like, tries to keep her calm. He's like, tries to keep her calm. He's like, "Listen, don't worry. Maybe she just "Listen, don't worry. Maybe she just "Listen, don't worry. Maybe she just went somewhere. I'm going to start went somewhere. I'm going to start went somewhere. I'm going to start calling around. I'm going to start calling around. I'm going to start calling around. I'm going to start checking with everyone." [music] And checking with everyone." [music] And checking with everyone." [music] And he's already sounded the alarm to he's already sounded the alarm to he's already sounded the alarm to another O'Brien sister, Kathy. And even another O'Brien sister, Kathy. And even another O'Brien sister, Kathy. And even though she lives far away in New though she lives far away in New though she lives far away in New Orleans, she knows what to do because Orleans, she knows what to do because Orleans, she knows what to do because she's a prosecutor. So Thursday morning, she's a prosecutor. So Thursday morning, she's a prosecutor. So Thursday morning, the moment she hears that Carrie still the moment she hears that Carrie still the moment she hears that Carrie still isn't home, Kathy brings their parents isn't home, Kathy brings their parents isn't home, Kathy brings their parents in [music] the loop and instructs them in [music] the loop and instructs them in [music] the loop and instructs them to make Tracy file a missing person's to make Tracy file a missing person's to make Tracy file a missing person's report with the Burlington Police report with the Burlington Police report with the Burlington Police Department. Like, do it now. Do it Department. Like, do it now. Do it Department. Like, do it now. Do it today. today. today. >> So Carrie's parents bring Tracy to the >> So Carrie's parents bring Tracy to the >> So Carrie's parents bring Tracy to the station where he runs through it all station where he runs through it all station where he runs through it all again. The 11th hour work call, the again. The 11th hour work call, the again. The 11th hour work call, the early trip, and how nobody can reach early trip, and how nobody can reach early trip, and how nobody can reach Carrie now. But while her family seems Carrie now. But while her family seems Carrie now. But while her family seems to be frantic, officers are like, you to be frantic, officers are like, you to be frantic, officers are like, you know, meh, not so much. They put out a know, meh, not so much. They put out a know, meh, not so much. They put out a bolo for her, but you know, she's an bolo for her, but you know, she's an bolo for her, but you know, she's an adult. She might just need some space.

adult. She might just need some space. adult. She might just need some space. So, they [music] give it to her until So, they [music] give it to her until So, they [music] give it to her until they realize that space might even be they realize that space might even be they realize that space might even be dangerous. Cuz a couple of days later, dangerous. Cuz a couple of days later, dangerous. Cuz a couple of days later, Tracy brings them a note [music] from Tracy brings them a note [music] from Tracy brings them a note [music] from Carrie's doctor saying that she had been Carrie's doctor saying that she had been Carrie's doctor saying that she had been treated for depression and she might be treated for depression and she might be treated for depression and she might be suicidal. suicidal. suicidal. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> So that is what escalates things at >> So that is what escalates things at >> So that is what escalates things at least enough so that she gets entered least enough so that she gets entered least enough so that she gets entered into the NCIC database. Now what the into the NCIC database. Now what the into the NCIC database. Now what the doctor's note didn't mention though is doctor's note didn't mention though is doctor's note didn't mention though is [music] the real health problems she had [music] the real health problems she had [music] the real health problems she had been suffering from over the last year been suffering from over the last year been suffering from over the last year and a half. Severe unexplained [music] and a half. Severe unexplained [music] and a half. Severe unexplained [music] stomach pain including nausea, vomiting, stomach pain including nausea, vomiting, stomach pain including nausea, vomiting, weight loss, and nobody could figure out weight loss, and nobody could figure out weight loss, and nobody could figure out why. At one point, her sister Kathy even why. At one point, her sister Kathy even why. At one point, her sister Kathy even asked her point blank if she thought she asked her point blank if she thought she asked her point blank if she thought she was being poisoned. And Carrie had like was being poisoned. And Carrie had like was being poisoned. And Carrie had like joked to a friend that maybe Tracy was joked to a friend that maybe Tracy was joked to a friend that maybe Tracy was the one doing it. That's a joke that the one doing it. That's a joke that the one doing it. That's a joke that nobody is laughing at now that she's nobody is laughing at now that she's nobody is laughing at now that she's [music] gone. But at the same time, [music] gone. But at the same time, [music] gone. But at the same time, nobody could look at Tracy and be like, nobody could look at Tracy and be like, nobody could look at Tracy and be like, "Yep, saw this [music] coming." If he "Yep, saw this [music] coming." If he "Yep, saw this [music] coming." If he did something to her, it would be a huge did something to her, it would be a huge did something to her, it would be a huge shock. I mean, don't get me wrong, their shock. I mean, don't get me wrong, their shock. I mean, don't get me wrong, their marriage definitely wasn't perfect. Like marriage definitely wasn't perfect. Like marriage definitely wasn't perfect. Like before she worked in PR, she was a before she worked in PR, she was a before she worked in PR, she was a [music] journalist, which is how she met [music] journalist, which is how she met [music] journalist, which is how she met Tracy. And in the early8s, they both Tracy. And in the early8s, they both Tracy. And in the early8s, they both worked at a local newspaper. And the two worked at a local newspaper. And the two worked at a local newspaper. And the two [music] got engaged fast. Then Carrie [music] got engaged fast. Then Carrie [music] got engaged fast. Then Carrie called it off, unsure if like this is called it off, unsure if like this is called it off, unsure if like this is really what she wanted, but Tracy kept really what she wanted, but Tracy kept really what she wanted, but Tracy kept pursuing her. And in 1985, they tied the pursuing her. And in 1985, they tied the pursuing her. And in 1985, they tied the knot. [music] She was already pregnant

knot. [music] She was already pregnant knot. [music] She was already pregnant with her daughter Megan at the altar, with her daughter Megan at the altar, with her daughter Megan at the altar, which caused a rift with her which caused a rift with her which caused a rift with her conservative Catholic [music] parents, conservative Catholic [music] parents, conservative Catholic [music] parents, especially her mom. But they had patched especially her mom. But they had patched especially her mom. But they had patched things up since then, and everything things up since then, and everything things up since then, and everything seemed to be fine. But the couple's seemed to be fine. But the couple's seemed to be fine. But the couple's relationship had been rocky lately. relationship had been rocky lately. relationship had been rocky lately. Carrie had confided in loved ones that Carrie had confided in loved ones that Carrie had confided in loved ones that she and Tracy weren't having sex [music] she and Tracy weren't having sex [music] she and Tracy weren't having sex [music] and that he'd been cold and distant. She and that he'd been cold and distant. She and that he'd been cold and distant. She suspected that he was cheating. [music] suspected that he was cheating. [music] suspected that he was cheating. [music] He was always pulling late shifts at the He was always pulling late shifts at the He was always pulling late shifts at the same paper where they met. He ran same paper where they met. He ran same paper where they met. He ran circulation and like worked in the dark circulation and like worked in the dark circulation and like worked in the dark room. Sometime in the past year, I room. Sometime in the past year, I room. Sometime in the past year, I [music] guess Carrie had drawn a line. [music] guess Carrie had drawn a line. [music] guess Carrie had drawn a line. fix things or she was going to be done fix things or she was going to be done fix things or she was going to be done [music] done. And Tracy agreed. He told [music] done. And Tracy agreed. He told [music] done. And Tracy agreed. He told Carrie that he was seeing a counselor. Carrie that he was seeing a counselor. Carrie that he was seeing a counselor. But then she found out [music] he But then she found out [music] he But then she found out [music] he wasn't. And when she confronted him, her wasn't. And when she confronted him, her wasn't. And when she confronted him, her family says that he deflected, [music] family says that he deflected, [music] family says that he deflected, [music] claiming that he had a brain tumor, claiming that he had a brain tumor, claiming that he had a brain tumor, which he did not. Sorry. No. There are which he did not. Sorry. No. There are which he did not. Sorry. No. There are like little white lies and then there like little white lies and then there like little white lies and then there are big like life lies. If you can lie are big like life lies. If you can lie are big like life lies. If you can lie about a brain tumor, like you're willing about a brain tumor, like you're willing about a brain tumor, like you're willing to do to do to do >> anything but the right thing. Like >> anything but the right thing. Like >> anything but the right thing. Like >> I agree, >> I agree, >> I agree, >> girl. Get out. [music] >> girl. Get out. [music] >> girl. Get out. [music] >> Carrie didn't. And as bad as those lies >> Carrie didn't. And as bad as those lies >> Carrie didn't. And as bad as those lies were, there's also a big difference were, there's also a big difference were, there's also a big difference [music] between a lying husband and a [music] between a lying husband and a [music] between a lying husband and a dangerous one.

dangerous one. dangerous one. >> And to what I was saying earlier, nobody >> And to what I was saying earlier, nobody >> And to what I was saying earlier, nobody had ever put Tracy [music] in that had ever put Tracy [music] in that had ever put Tracy [music] in that column, the dangerous column. Like to column, the dangerous column. Like to column, the dangerous column. Like to Molly, Tracy's basically another Molly, Tracy's basically another Molly, Tracy's basically another brother. She told our reporter Nah, that brother. She told our reporter Nah, that brother. She told our reporter Nah, that he had taught her how to drive. He was he had taught her how to drive. He was he had taught her how to drive. He was there to cheer her on at her like grade there to cheer her on at her like grade there to cheer her on at her like grade school [music] basketball games. And school [music] basketball games. And school [music] basketball games. And after all that time together, Molly after all that time together, Molly after all that time together, Molly trusted him completely. trusted him completely. trusted him completely. But even still, his story isn't sitting But even still, his story isn't sitting But even still, his story isn't sitting [music] right with the family. Like, [music] right with the family. Like, [music] right with the family. Like, it's just too bizarre. And every time it's just too bizarre. And every time it's just too bizarre. And every time they poke at it, another hole opens up. they poke at it, another hole opens up. they poke at it, another hole opens up. including a [music] big one that opens including a [music] big one that opens including a [music] big one that opens up on Monday, December 11th, when Car's up on Monday, December 11th, when Car's up on Monday, December 11th, when Car's family searches [music] family searches [music] family searches [music] the Krueger House for themselves. In the parks and forests you love, there In the parks and forests you love, there are stories waiting to be told. I'm are stories waiting to be told. I'm are stories waiting to be told. I'm Dillia Deira, the host of Park Dillia Deira, the host of Park Dillia Deira, the host of Park Predators, [music] a true crime podcast Predators, [music] a true crime podcast Predators, [music] a true crime podcast that reminds you sometimes the most that reminds you sometimes the most that reminds you sometimes the most beautiful places hide the darkest beautiful places hide the darkest beautiful places hide the darkest secrets. Listen now, wherever you get secrets. Listen now, wherever you get secrets. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

According to Rine County investigator According to Rine County investigator Tommy Sheret, who's working the case Tommy Sheret, who's working the case Tommy Sheret, who's working the case now, when Car's [music] family goes to now, when Car's [music] family goes to now, when Car's [music] family goes to search her house, they see that Car's search her house, they see that Car's search her house, they see that Car's purse and her ID are gone. [music] But purse and her ID are gone. [music] But purse and her ID are gone. [music] But damn near everything else she owns is damn near everything else she owns is damn near everything else she owns is there, including a bunch of stuff that there, including a bunch of stuff that there, including a bunch of stuff that Tracy said she had taken with her. Her Tracy said she had taken with her. Her Tracy said she had taken with her. Her briefcase is tucked under a desk. Her briefcase is tucked under a desk. Her briefcase is tucked under a desk. Her wedding ring is there in this like dish wedding ring is there in this like dish wedding ring is there in this like dish on [music] the dresser and her curling on [music] the dresser and her curling on [music] the dresser and her curling iron, her new makeup, her stomach iron, her new makeup, her stomach iron, her new makeup, her stomach medication is there. She didn't even medication is there. She didn't even medication is there. She didn't even bring a winter coat, just her all- bring a winter coat, just her all- bring a winter coat, just her all- weather jacket. And I mean, it's heavy weather jacket. And I mean, it's heavy weather jacket. And I mean, it's heavy removable lining is still hanging in the removable lining is still hanging in the removable lining is still hanging in the closet. So, even though she like brought closet. So, even though she like brought closet. So, even though she like brought a coat, she didn't actually bring the a coat, she didn't actually bring the a coat, she didn't actually bring the part that like keeps you warm. And she's part that like keeps you warm. And she's part that like keeps you warm. And she's in Wisconsin. She's going to Wyoming. in Wisconsin. She's going to Wyoming. in Wisconsin. She's going to Wyoming. And all of this is happening in And all of this is happening in And all of this is happening in December. Well, but I mean she obviously December. Well, but I mean she obviously December. Well, but I mean she obviously isn't going to Wyoming, right? Like isn't going to Wyoming, right? Like isn't going to Wyoming, right? Like >> right, there was no trade show. >> right, there was no trade show. >> right, there was no trade show. >> Somebody invented that [music] trip. But >> Somebody invented that [music] trip. But >> Somebody invented that [music] trip. But more concerningly, of of all the things more concerningly, of of all the things more concerningly, of of all the things I mentioned, there is this big brown I mentioned, there is this big brown I mentioned, there is this big brown suitcase that Tracy said she packed, suitcase that Tracy said she packed, suitcase that Tracy said she packed, that's in the attic along [music] with that's in the attic along [music] with that's in the attic along [music] with all of her other luggage. But when Kathy all of her other luggage. But when Kathy all of her other luggage. But when Kathy points that out, Tracy kind of points that out, Tracy kind of points that out, Tracy kind of backpedals and he's like, "No, no, no, backpedals and he's like, "No, no, no, backpedals and he's like, "No, no, no, no. She didn't take her suitcase. She no. She didn't take her suitcase. She no. She didn't take her suitcase. She took one of mine." Meanwhile, the only took one of mine." Meanwhile, the only took one of mine." Meanwhile, the only money missing [music] is $500 that Tracy money missing [music] is $500 that Tracy money missing [music] is $500 that Tracy says they kept in an emergency stash says they kept in an emergency stash says they kept in an emergency stash hidden in a [music] basement air duct.

hidden in a [music] basement air duct. hidden in a [music] basement air duct. But say she grabbed the $500 and his But say she grabbed the $500 and his But say she grabbed the $500 and his suitcase and a light jacket because she suitcase and a light jacket because she suitcase and a light jacket because she was maybe headed somewhere warmer. How was maybe headed somewhere warmer. How was maybe headed somewhere warmer. How did she get there? [music] There is no did she get there? [music] There is no did she get there? [music] There is no flight record that they can find in her flight record that they can find in her flight record that they can find in her name. She didn't take her car and no one name. She didn't take her car and no one name. She didn't take her car and no one saw her leave that morning with [music] saw her leave that morning with [music] saw her leave that morning with [music] anyone. Although, there is one thing. anyone. Although, there is one thing. anyone. Although, there is one thing. Their next door neighbor noticed a small Their next door neighbor noticed a small Their next door neighbor noticed a small black car outside her own house at black car outside her own house at black car outside her own house at around 4 or 4:30 a.m. This is about the around 4 or 4:30 a.m. This is about the around 4 or 4:30 a.m. This is about the time that Tracy says she's leaving. time that Tracy says she's leaving. time that Tracy says she's leaving. [music] And outside of that car, there [music] And outside of that car, there [music] And outside of that car, there was this man standing beside it. But was this man standing beside it. But was this man standing beside it. But this neighbor can't say for certain this neighbor can't say for certain this neighbor can't say for certain whether it was for sure [music] whether it was for sure [music] whether it was for sure [music] Wednesday the 6th or maybe it was like Wednesday the 6th or maybe it was like Wednesday the 6th or maybe it was like some other morning that week. And some other morning that week. And some other morning that week. And importantly, she never saw Carrie get importantly, she never saw Carrie get importantly, she never saw Carrie get into that sitting [music] car. So even into that sitting [music] car. So even into that sitting [music] car. So even if this was the same day, it might not if this was the same day, it might not if this was the same day, it might not mean anything, [music] mean anything, [music] mean anything, [music] >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And with so little to go on, the >> And with so little to go on, the >> And with so little to go on, the question shifts [music] from where question shifts [music] from where question shifts [music] from where Carrie went to whether she went anywhere Carrie went to whether she went anywhere Carrie went to whether she went anywhere at all. [music] and her family can't at all. [music] and her family can't at all. [music] and her family can't help but look squarely at Tracy for help but look squarely at Tracy for help but look squarely at Tracy for answers. [music] answers. [music] answers. [music] I mean, his story just isn't adding up.

I mean, his story just isn't adding up. I mean, his story just isn't adding up. And investigators are fully asking those And investigators are fully asking those And investigators are fully asking those questions now, too. Problem is, [music] questions now, too. Problem is, [music] questions now, too. Problem is, [music] the more times they ask, the more the more times they ask, the more the more times they ask, the more versions they get of the same story. versions they get of the same story. versions they get of the same story. Tracy can't seem to keep straight Tracy can't seem to keep straight Tracy can't seem to keep straight [music] who called Carrie that Tuesday [music] who called Carrie that Tuesday [music] who called Carrie that Tuesday night or what exactly they said. I mean, night or what exactly they said. I mean, night or what exactly they said. I mean, at one point he says maybe the trade at one point he says maybe the trade at one point he says maybe the trade show was actually in Montana, not show was actually in Montana, not show was actually in Montana, not Wyoming. In some versions, her manager Wyoming. In some versions, her manager Wyoming. In some versions, her manager Jim was supposed to pick her up, right? Jim was supposed to pick her up, right? Jim was supposed to pick her up, right? But like, in at least one version, But like, in at least one version, But like, in at least one version, Carrie apparently wanted to borrow his Carrie apparently wanted to borrow his Carrie apparently wanted to borrow his truck to get to the airport because her truck to get to the airport because her truck to get to the airport because her car was in the shop. car was in the shop. car was in the shop. >> How would he have gotten anywhere while >> How would he have gotten anywhere while >> How would he have gotten anywhere while she was gone? she was gone? she was gone? >> Yeah, that's why he said that he >> Yeah, that's why he said that he >> Yeah, that's why he said that he couldn't lend it to her. And sometimes couldn't lend it to her. And sometimes couldn't lend it to her. And sometimes Tracy like half remembers hearing a car Tracy like half remembers hearing a car Tracy like half remembers hearing a car outside that morning. other times no car outside that morning. other times no car outside that morning. other times no car because he was like, [music] you know, because he was like, [music] you know, because he was like, [music] you know, sleepy or whatever. And depending on who sleepy or whatever. And depending on who sleepy or whatever. And depending on who he's talking to, Carrie was due home he's talking to, Carrie was due home he's talking to, Carrie was due home anytime from [music] Saturday, December anytime from [music] Saturday, December anytime from [music] Saturday, December 9th to Tuesday, December 12th. And 9th to Tuesday, December 12th. And 9th to Tuesday, December 12th. And listen, maybe you could chalk all that listen, maybe you could chalk all that listen, maybe you could chalk all that up to a foggy memory. Last minute plans, up to a foggy memory. Last minute plans, up to a foggy memory. Last minute plans, a husband who is distant and half a husband who is distant and half a husband who is distant and half listening. But here is the real clincher listening. But here is the real clincher listening. But here is the real clincher for me. [snorts] It's what Tracy's own for me. [snorts] It's what Tracy's own for me. [snorts] It's what Tracy's own father [music] tells police, which is father [music] tells police, which is father [music] tells police, which is that Tracy mentioned to him Carrie's that Tracy mentioned to him Carrie's that Tracy mentioned to him Carrie's Wyoming trip on Monday, December 4th.

Wyoming trip on Monday, December 4th. Wyoming trip on Monday, December 4th. This is a full [music] day before Carrie This is a full [music] day before Carrie This is a full [music] day before Carrie supposedly even got that late night call supposedly even got that late night call supposedly even got that late night call telling her that she needed to [music] telling her that she needed to [music] telling her that she needed to [music] fill in. fill in. fill in. So that alleged Tuesday night trade show So that alleged Tuesday night trade show So that alleged Tuesday night trade show call is looking [music] less and less call is looking [music] less and less call is looking [music] less and less like the start of all of this and more like the start of all of this and more like the start of all of this and more and more like something [music] and more like something [music] and more like something [music] Tracy constructed as he worked backwards Tracy constructed as he worked backwards Tracy constructed as he worked backwards to build a timeline [music] of Car's to build a timeline [music] of Car's to build a timeline [music] of Car's movements. movements. movements. >> So can anyone verify if Carrie got >> So can anyone verify if Carrie got >> So can anyone verify if Carrie got [music] any calls that night? Well, no, [music] any calls that night? Well, no, [music] any calls that night? Well, no, because in 1989, their phone company because in 1989, their phone company because in 1989, their phone company only itemized [music] only itemized [music] only itemized [music] long-distance calls, and Jim's call, if long-distance calls, and Jim's call, if long-distance calls, and Jim's call, if it came in, would have been local. So, it came in, would have been local. So, it came in, would have been local. So, that ends up being a dead end. But that ends up being a dead end. But that ends up being a dead end. But detectives can still try to pick apart detectives can still try to pick apart detectives can still try to pick apart Tracy's other claims about that night to Tracy's other claims about that night to Tracy's other claims about that night to see where else they might find [music] see where else they might find [music] see where else they might find [music] gaps, starting with Car's car. So Tracy gaps, starting with Car's car. So Tracy gaps, starting with Car's car. So Tracy had left her car at the shop [music] in had left her car at the shop [music] in had left her car at the shop [music] in early December, claiming that it early December, claiming that it early December, claiming that it wouldn't start, but mechanics couldn't wouldn't start, but mechanics couldn't wouldn't start, but mechanics couldn't find anything wrong with it. [music] He find anything wrong with it. [music] He find anything wrong with it. [music] He also told the dealership not to release also told the dealership not to release also told the dealership not to release the car to anyone without calling him the car to anyone without calling him the car to anyone without calling him first, even though it is Carrie's car.

first, even though it is Carrie's car. first, even though it is Carrie's car. Now, at the time, Tracy had been driving Now, at the time, Tracy had been driving Now, at the time, Tracy had been driving a new Ford [music] a new Ford [music] a new Ford [music] pickup, and he had told pretty much pickup, and he had told pretty much pickup, and he had told pretty much everybody that that truck was a loner everybody that that truck was a loner everybody that that truck was a loner from a buddy. And that seemed to be even from a buddy. And that seemed to be even from a buddy. And that seemed to be even what he told [music] Carrie because the what he told [music] Carrie because the what he told [music] Carrie because the weekend before she disappeared, she and weekend before she disappeared, she and weekend before she disappeared, she and her sister Molly were in the truck with her sister Molly were in the truck with her sister Molly were in the truck with Tracy when he got in a fender bender. Tracy when he got in a fender bender. Tracy when he got in a fender bender. And afterward, Carrie worried how his And afterward, Carrie worried how his And afterward, Carrie worried how his friend was going to react to [music] friend was going to react to [music] friend was going to react to [music] this. Well, come to find out, when this. Well, come to find out, when this. Well, come to find out, when police run the plates, they learned that police run the plates, they learned that police run the plates, they learned that Tracy actually [music] bought the truck Tracy actually [music] bought the truck Tracy actually [music] bought the truck back in June in both his and Carrie's back in June in both his and Carrie's back in June in both his and Carrie's [music] [music] [music] name. name. name. >> This is too many lies. Now, when he is >> This is too many lies. Now, when he is >> This is too many lies. Now, when he is pressed on the truck, [music] pressed on the truck, [music] pressed on the truck, [music] he said that Carrie did know and keeping he said that Carrie did know and keeping he said that Carrie did know and keeping the purchase secret was her idea. the purchase secret was her idea. the purchase secret was her idea. Trouble with [music] that is Trouble with [music] that is Trouble with [music] that is investigators learn that she wasn't with investigators learn that she wasn't with investigators learn that she wasn't with him when he bought it. [music] And so, him when he bought it. [music] And so, him when he bought it. [music] And so, they think that her signature on the they think that her signature on the they think that her signature on the paperwork doesn't match her other paperwork doesn't match her other paperwork doesn't match her other signatures. signatures. signatures. >> So, they think it was forged. >> So, they think it was forged. >> So, they think it was forged. >> That's [music] the implication.

>> That's [music] the implication. >> That's [music] the implication. And Carrie's family doesn't think that And Carrie's family doesn't think that And Carrie's family doesn't think that she would have wanted [music] a new she would have wanted [music] a new she would have wanted [music] a new truck anyway. The Krugergers were truck anyway. The Krugergers were truck anyway. The Krugergers were already stretched thin financially, and already stretched thin financially, and already stretched thin financially, and Tracy had just made it worse. Detectives Tracy had just made it worse. Detectives Tracy had just made it worse. Detectives find out after that he had been skipping find out after that he had been skipping find out after that he had been skipping shifts and padding his time cards. The shifts and padding his time cards. The shifts and padding his time cards. The paper had also recently knocked him from paper had also recently knocked him from paper had also recently knocked him from salary to hourly, so he was one warning salary to hourly, so he was one warning salary to hourly, so he was one warning away from getting fired. Did Carrie know away from getting fired. Did Carrie know away from getting fired. Did Carrie know that? that? that? >> I mean, she knew money was tight, >> I mean, she knew money was tight, >> I mean, she knew money was tight, [music] but Tracy's job troubles, all [music] but Tracy's job troubles, all [music] but Tracy's job troubles, all the rest of it, I don't know. Also, the rest of it, I don't know. Also, the rest of it, I don't know. Also, where is he going if he's not going to where is he going if he's not going to where is he going if he's not going to work? work like he said he was like work? work like he said he was like work? work like he said he was like patting his time card and stuff. No patting his time card and stuff. No patting his time card and stuff. No idea. But I can tell you an excuse that idea. But I can tell you an excuse that idea. But I can tell you an excuse that he leaned on when he wanted out of he leaned on when he wanted out of he leaned on when he wanted out of something. He would tell people Carrie something. He would tell people Carrie something. He would tell people Carrie is away for work. [music] He has to is away for work. [music] He has to is away for work. [music] He has to watch their daughter. Interestingly, a watch their daughter. Interestingly, a watch their daughter. Interestingly, a few different people reportedly heard few different people reportedly heard few different people reportedly heard some version of that excuse. [music] And some version of that excuse. [music] And some version of that excuse. [music] And they only learned it wasn't true later they only learned it wasn't true later they only learned it wasn't true later when they would apparently ask Carrie when they would apparently ask Carrie when they would apparently ask Carrie like, "Hey, how was Alaska?" And she like, "Hey, how was Alaska?" And she like, "Hey, how was Alaska?" And she would be like, "What do you mean would be like, "What do you mean would be like, "What do you mean Alaska?" She had no idea what they were Alaska?" She had no idea what they were Alaska?" She had no idea what they were talking about.

talking about. talking about. >> So that lie was unraveling like before >> So that lie was unraveling like before >> So that lie was unraveling like before she was even gone. she was even gone. she was even gone. >> Yeah. And Tracy actually pulled the same >> Yeah. And Tracy actually pulled the same >> Yeah. And Tracy actually pulled the same stunt days before she vanished. When stunt days before she vanished. When stunt days before she vanished. When Carrie wanted to cancel a December 4th Carrie wanted to cancel a December 4th Carrie wanted to cancel a December 4th doctor's appointment, he suggested like doctor's appointment, he suggested like doctor's appointment, he suggested like just tell them that you're going to be just tell them that you're going to be just tell them that you're going to be out of town. So, investigators have out of town. So, investigators have out of town. So, investigators have every reason to doubt Tracy, every reason to doubt Tracy, every reason to doubt Tracy, >> which is why they work backward from the >> which is why they work backward from the >> which is why they work backward from the last time anyone besides him saw Carrie, last time anyone besides him saw Carrie, last time anyone besides him saw Carrie, [music] [music] [music] and that would have been Tuesday, and that would have been Tuesday, and that would have been Tuesday, December 5th. Gander Mountain kept its December 5th. Gander Mountain kept its December 5th. Gander Mountain kept its [music] own phone records. And unlike [music] own phone records. And unlike [music] own phone records. And unlike the phone company, which only logged the phone company, which only logged the phone company, which only logged those long-distance [music] calls, those long-distance [music] calls, those long-distance [music] calls, theirs show that Carrie made a string of theirs show that Carrie made a string of theirs show that Carrie made a string of short calls home that morning. [music] short calls home that morning. [music] short calls home that morning. [music] Now, it's not clear why since Tracy was Now, it's not clear why since Tracy was Now, it's not clear why since Tracy was supposed to be at work. supposed to be at work. supposed to be at work. >> I mean, maybe that's why she's trying to >> I mean, maybe that's why she's trying to >> I mean, maybe that's why she's trying to make sure he's where he's supposed to make sure he's where he's supposed to make sure he's where he's supposed to be, which is not at home. be, which is not at home. be, which is not at home. >> Well, you know, maybe that's that or >> Well, you know, maybe that's that or >> Well, you know, maybe that's that or like him going hourly. Maybe he she knew like him going hourly. Maybe he she knew like him going hourly. Maybe he she knew he was home. I don't know. But at some he was home. I don't know. But at some he was home. I don't know. But at some point, I do know that he does go to work point, I do know that he does go to work point, I do know that he does go to work because she eventually did reach him at because she eventually did reach him at because she eventually did reach him at the [music] newspaper. Now, this next the [music] newspaper. Now, this next the [music] newspaper. Now, this next bit comes from Tracy, who didn't explain bit comes from Tracy, who didn't explain bit comes from Tracy, who didn't explain it until after the phone records came to it until after the phone records came to it until after the phone records came to [music] light, but he claims that Carrie [music] light, but he claims that Carrie [music] light, but he claims that Carrie asked him to bring over an envelope that asked him to bring over an envelope that asked him to bring over an envelope that she had forgotten at home. So, he says she had forgotten at home. So, he says she had forgotten at home. So, he says he drops it off at her job, but he isn't he drops it off at her job, but he isn't he drops it off at her job, but he isn't sure what was in it because it was taped sure what was in it because it was taped sure what was in it because it was taped shut. And he can't remember if he left shut. And he can't remember if he left shut. And he can't remember if he left it with Carrie or if he left it with a it with Carrie or if he left it with a it with Carrie or if he left it with a [music] receptionist. Except no one from [music] receptionist. Except no one from [music] receptionist. Except no one from her job remembers him stopping by that

her job remembers him stopping by that her job remembers him stopping by that day. [music] So, like TBD to all of day. [music] So, like TBD to all of day. [music] So, like TBD to all of that. But we know for sure though that. But we know for sure though that. But we know for sure though through her co-workers that Carrie is at through her co-workers that Carrie is at through her co-workers that Carrie is at work that [music] afternoon and didn't work that [music] afternoon and didn't work that [music] afternoon and didn't leave the office until 5:30, maybe 5:45, leave the office until 5:30, maybe 5:45, leave the office until 5:30, maybe 5:45, which by the way contradicts part of the which by the way contradicts part of the which by the way contradicts part of the story Tracy had already given them. story Tracy had already given them. story Tracy had already given them. [music] According to him, Carrie got [music] According to him, Carrie got [music] According to him, Carrie got home at 5:30 and then 5 minutes later home at 5:30 and then 5 minutes later home at 5:30 and then 5 minutes later they ate dinner [music] spaghetti that they ate dinner [music] spaghetti that they ate dinner [music] spaghetti that he'd made earlier. And at 6:05, he had he'd made earlier. And at 6:05, he had he'd made earlier. And at 6:05, he had left to run errands. and he can [music] left to run errands. and he can [music] left to run errands. and he can [music] rattle off every stop. Hardware store, rattle off every stop. Hardware store, rattle off every stop. Hardware store, grocery store, liquor store, two trips grocery store, liquor store, two trips grocery store, liquor store, two trips to his [music] office, and he was home to his [music] office, and he was home to his [music] office, and he was home by 7:30. Megan was in bed by 8:00 by 7:30. Megan was in bed by 8:00 by 7:30. Megan was in bed by 8:00 [music] and then he took out the trash. [music] and then he took out the trash. [music] and then he took out the trash. And then at 8:15, he heard Carrie on the And then at 8:15, he heard Carrie on the And then at 8:15, he heard Carrie on the phone gushing about how beautiful phone gushing about how beautiful phone gushing about how beautiful Wyoming [music] is. Wyoming [music] is. Wyoming [music] is. >> I mean, or maybe Montana. >> I mean, or maybe Montana. >> I mean, or maybe Montana. >> Yeah. So, she then tells him about the >> Yeah. So, she then tells him about the >> Yeah. So, she then tells him about the trip. So, then [music] at 8:30, he got trip. So, then [music] at 8:30, he got trip. So, then [music] at 8:30, he got her suitcase for her from the attic. her suitcase for her from the attic. her suitcase for her from the attic. Maybe, but it's fair. Maybe, but it's fair. Maybe, but it's fair. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> She showered, packed, and then was in >> She showered, packed, and then was in >> She showered, packed, and then was in bed by like 10:05.

bed by like 10:05. bed by like 10:05. >> And he's got it down to like a 5minute >> And he's got it down to like a 5minute >> And he's got it down to like a 5minute window. That's like really specific. window. That's like really specific. window. That's like really specific. >> I know. Especially for what should have >> I know. Especially for what should have >> I know. Especially for what should have been like a pretty ordinary night. been like a pretty ordinary night. been like a pretty ordinary night. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. >> But then he gets to Wednesday and his >> But then he gets to Wednesday and his >> But then he gets to Wednesday and his black box becomes [music] just like a black box becomes [music] just like a black box becomes [music] just like a blur. He sort of remembers Carrie blur. He sort of remembers Carrie blur. He sort of remembers Carrie leaving, but he like didn't get up to leaving, but he like didn't get up to leaving, but he like didn't get up to see her off. Can't tell you the exact see her off. Can't tell you the exact see her off. Can't tell you the exact time, only that it was still dark. time, only that it was still dark. time, only that it was still dark. [music] thinks maybe he heard the back [music] thinks maybe he heard the back [music] thinks maybe he heard the back door close and that's it. Not a word door close and that's it. Not a word door close and that's it. Not a word from her since. from her since. from her since. >> So, did anyone say how she was at work >> So, did anyone say how she was at work >> So, did anyone say how she was at work on that last day? Like, was she upset? on that last day? Like, was she upset? on that last day? Like, was she upset? Was she happy? Like, was anything like Was she happy? Like, was anything like Was she happy? Like, was anything like happening in her life? Could they tell? happening in her life? Could they tell? happening in her life? Could they tell? >> Well, it sounds like it was kind of a >> Well, it sounds like it was kind of a >> Well, it sounds like it was kind of a crappy day for her. She had been upset crappy day for her. She had been upset crappy day for her. She had been upset about a mistake in an ad and a colleague about a mistake in an ad and a colleague about a mistake in an ad and a colleague noted that she [music] seemed noted that she [music] seemed noted that she [music] seemed distracted. And then she left later than distracted. And then she left later than distracted. And then she left later than usual. Late enough that one of her usual. Late enough that one of her usual. Late enough that one of her co-workers teased her about like her co-workers teased her about like her co-workers teased her about like her watch being [music] broken. But Carrie watch being [music] broken. But Carrie watch being [music] broken. But Carrie just said that she'd been busy and told just said that she'd been busy and told just said that she'd been busy and told her, "I'll [music] see you tomorrow." her, "I'll [music] see you tomorrow." her, "I'll [music] see you tomorrow." Except there is no tomorrow. At least Except there is no tomorrow. At least Except there is no tomorrow. At least not one anyone can account for. Now, not one anyone can account for. Now, not one anyone can account for. Now, when Christmas passes with no word from when Christmas passes with no word from when Christmas passes with no word from Carrie, it seems like detectives are Carrie, it seems like detectives are Carrie, it seems like detectives are coming around to what the family [music] coming around to what the family [music] coming around to what the family [music] has feared all along, that Carrie met has feared all along, that Carrie met has feared all along, that Carrie met with foul play and Tracy might be behind with foul play and Tracy might be behind with foul play and Tracy might be behind it. So, as 1989 winds down, they bring it. So, as 1989 winds down, they bring it. So, as 1989 winds down, they bring their top suspect [music] in for a their top suspect [music] in for a their top suspect [music] in for a polygraph. But the morning of the polygraph. But the morning of the polygraph. But the morning of the polygraph test, Tracy says that he's not polygraph test, Tracy says that he's not polygraph test, Tracy says that he's not feeling good. Car's sister, [music]

feeling good. Car's sister, [music] feeling good. Car's sister, [music] Kathy, babysitting Megan while he is at Kathy, babysitting Megan while he is at Kathy, babysitting Megan while he is at the station, isn't buying that. To her, the station, isn't buying that. To her, the station, isn't buying that. To her, it is a [music] flatout act. But he it is a [music] flatout act. But he it is a [music] flatout act. But he takes the test anyway, and the results takes the test anyway, and the results takes the test anyway, and the results are inconclusive. are inconclusive. are inconclusive. So they schedule a second [music] test, So they schedule a second [music] test, So they schedule a second [music] test, one for January 5th. one for January 5th. one for January 5th. But then Tracy cancels But then Tracy cancels But then Tracy cancels and they would never get another [music] and they would never get another [music] and they would never get another [music] chance to give him an additional chance to give him an additional chance to give him an additional polygraph because something unbelievable polygraph because something unbelievable polygraph because something unbelievable happened. Something I haven't seen play happened. Something I haven't seen play happened. Something I haven't seen play out in any other true crime case ever. The day after Tracy's never taken second The day after Tracy's never taken second polygraph, he is at work when he glances polygraph, he is at work when he glances polygraph, he is at work when he glances at a newspaper article about his missing at a newspaper article about his missing at a newspaper article about his missing wife [music] and he just collapses. He's wife [music] and he just collapses. He's wife [music] and he just collapses. He's taken to the hospital, but the Tracy who taken to the hospital, but the Tracy who taken to the hospital, but the Tracy who arrives there says that it's 1979 arrives there says that it's 1979 arrives there says that it's 1979 [music] [music] [music] and that the last 10 years of his life and that the last 10 years of his life and that the last 10 years of his life are just gone.

>> What do you mean gone? Gone. Gone how? >> What do you mean gone? Gone. Gone how? >> The way he tells it in his mind, it is >> The way he tells it in his mind, it is >> The way he tells it in his mind, it is literally 1979. He's a teenager, which literally 1979. He's a teenager, which literally 1979. He's a teenager, which means [music] what wife? He and Carrie means [music] what wife? He and Carrie means [music] what wife? He and Carrie didn't meet until 1982. didn't meet until 1982. didn't meet until 1982. >> And their daughter, >> And their daughter, >> And their daughter, >> what kid? Megan wasn't born until ' 86. >> what kid? Megan wasn't born until ' 86. >> what kid? Megan wasn't born until ' 86. But it is only that one decade he lost. But it is only that one decade he lost. But it is only that one decade he lost. Everything before and everything that is Everything before and everything that is Everything before and everything that is to come picking up at the hospital he to come picking up at the hospital he to come picking up at the hospital he says is perfectly intact. So to be says is perfectly intact. So to be says is perfectly intact. So to be clear, clear, clear, >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. [laughter] >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. [laughter] >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. [laughter] >> No, you got it. You can repeat it, but >> No, you got it. You can repeat it, but >> No, you got it. You can repeat it, but you got it. The only part of his life he you got it. The only part of his life he you got it. The only part of his life he can't remember is the part that actually can't remember is the part that actually can't remember is the part that actually matters to [music] this case and this matters to [music] this case and this matters to [music] this case and this missing woman who he was married to but missing woman who he was married to but missing woman who he was married to but doesn't remember. Doctors run a battery doesn't remember. Doctors run a battery doesn't remember. Doctors run a battery [music] of tests, but they can't find [music] of tests, but they can't find [music] of tests, but they can't find any physical cause of this memory loss. any physical cause of this memory loss. any physical cause of this memory loss. There is no sign of a stroke, nothing. There is no sign of a stroke, nothing. There is no sign of a stroke, nothing. [music] They do notice Tracy seems to [music] They do notice Tracy seems to [music] They do notice Tracy seems to think that he's getting treated for a think that he's getting treated for a think that he's getting treated for a crushed finger. Like that that's why he crushed finger. Like that that's why he crushed finger. Like that that's why he thinks he's at the hospital. And it was thinks he's at the hospital. And it was thinks he's at the hospital. And it was an injury that he had gotten like years an injury that he had gotten like years an injury that he had gotten like years earlier.

earlier. earlier. >> Years like I don't know 1979. >> Years like I don't know 1979. >> Years like I don't know 1979. >> Literally it it was. But believe it or >> Literally it it was. But believe it or >> Literally it it was. But believe it or not, the people evaluating him are not, the people evaluating him are not, the people evaluating him are mostly in agreement that he's [music] mostly in agreement that he's [music] mostly in agreement that he's [music] not faking it. not faking it. not faking it. They think he has what they refer to as They think he has what they refer to as They think he has what they refer to as hysterical amnesia. And they're hopeful hysterical amnesia. And they're hopeful hysterical amnesia. And they're hopeful that his memory will return in [music] that his memory will return in [music] that his memory will return in [music] time, basically. And they say it's time, basically. And they say it's time, basically. And they say it's already starting to like a couple stray already starting to like a couple stray already starting to like a couple stray flashes of him, Carrie, and Megan. flashes of him, Carrie, and Megan. flashes of him, Carrie, and Megan. [music] And to one of his counselors, [music] And to one of his counselors, [music] And to one of his counselors, that's exactly what makes it seem so that's exactly what makes it seem so that's exactly what makes it seem so real. Like the way that his memories are real. Like the way that his memories are real. Like the way that his memories are surfacing tracks so closely that the surfacing tracks so closely that the surfacing tracks so closely that the counselor believes that he would have counselor believes that he would have counselor believes that he would have had to research like how this type of had to research like how this type of had to research like how this type of memory loss would work for like memory loss would work for like memory loss would work for like thousands of hours to fake it so thousands of hours to fake it so thousands of hours to fake it so convincingly. I mean, [laughter] convincingly. I mean, [laughter] convincingly. I mean, [laughter] to be fair, he apparently had a lot of to be fair, he apparently had a lot of to be fair, he apparently had a lot of time off of work. So, like, time off of work. So, like, time off of work. So, like, >> but she doesn't she doesn't think that >> but she doesn't she doesn't think that >> but she doesn't she doesn't think that he's capable of hurting Carrie [music] he's capable of hurting Carrie [music] he's capable of hurting Carrie [music] either. Like, to her, he just seems sad either. Like, to her, he just seems sad either. Like, to her, he just seems sad and confused by the whole situation. But and confused by the whole situation. But and confused by the whole situation. But Tracy himself isn't even totally ruling Tracy himself isn't even totally ruling Tracy himself isn't even totally ruling out the possibility that something out the possibility that something out the possibility that something happened or he was involved.

happened or he was involved. happened or he was involved. >> What >> What >> What >> according to police reports, he tells a >> according to police reports, he tells a >> according to police reports, he tells a doctor that like maybe he was involved doctor that like maybe he was involved doctor that like maybe he was involved in Car's disappearance. He just can't in Car's disappearance. He just can't in Car's disappearance. He just can't remember. But it's not like he's remember. But it's not like he's remember. But it's not like he's confessing. The doctor's read on it is confessing. The doctor's read on it is confessing. The doctor's read on it is that Tracy is just like afraid of that that Tracy is just like afraid of that that Tracy is just like afraid of that possibility because he can't. possibility because he can't. possibility because he can't. >> Because he can't remember. >> Because he can't remember. >> Because he can't remember. >> Right now, investigators, despite what >> Right now, investigators, despite what >> Right now, investigators, despite what doctors are saying, like they're not doctors are saying, like they're not doctors are saying, like they're not buying a word of this. Medical staff can buying a word of this. Medical staff can buying a word of this. Medical staff can insist all day long that this kind of insist all day long that this kind of insist all day long that this kind of amnesia is real, that after something amnesia is real, that after something amnesia is real, that after something traumatic, the brain can shut down to traumatic, the brain can shut down to traumatic, the brain can shut down to protect itself, [music] and police still protect itself, [music] and police still protect itself, [music] and police still land in the same place. The timing of land in the same place. The timing of land in the same place. The timing of this is just too convenient. this is just too convenient. this is just too convenient. >> Yeah, but they put Tracy's hospital stay >> Yeah, but they put Tracy's hospital stay >> Yeah, but they put Tracy's hospital stay [music] to good use, and they finally [music] to good use, and they finally [music] to good use, and they finally get a search warrant for the house. get a search warrant for the house. get a search warrant for the house. Wait, what have they been doing this Wait, what have they been doing this Wait, what have they been doing this whole time? I don't know why this part whole time? I don't know why this part whole time? I don't know why this part took so long, but by the time they get took so long, but by the time they get took so long, but by the time they get in there, Tracy had already done some in there, Tracy had already done some in there, Tracy had already done some redecorating. So, you know, because they redecorating. So, you know, because they redecorating. So, you know, because they waited, he had swapped out their barely waited, he had swapped out their barely waited, he had swapped out their barely used mattress [music] for a water bed.

used mattress [music] for a water bed. used mattress [music] for a water bed. Never mind that they had redone that Never mind that they had redone that Never mind that they had redone that whole bedroom like months earlier. Never whole bedroom like months earlier. Never whole bedroom like months earlier. Never mind that Carrie hated water beds. He mind that Carrie hated water beds. He mind that Carrie hated water beds. He had talked about getting the carpets had talked about getting the carpets had talked about getting the carpets [music] cleaned, too, but you can't [music] cleaned, too, but you can't [music] cleaned, too, but you can't scrub a whole house. And detectives scrub a whole house. And detectives scrub a whole house. And detectives cover every inch with a camera rolling. cover every inch with a camera rolling. cover every inch with a camera rolling. We actually got the video of this. Now, We actually got the video of this. Now, We actually got the video of this. Now, you don't see much that's like, you you don't see much that's like, you you don't see much that's like, you know, incriminating. And the walkthrough know, incriminating. And the walkthrough know, incriminating. And the walkthrough is almost entirely [music] silent as is almost entirely [music] silent as is almost entirely [music] silent as they pan across a very livedin house they pan across a very livedin house they pan across a very livedin house [music] frozen in time highlighting [music] frozen in time highlighting [music] frozen in time highlighting anything that they think is important, anything that they think is important, anything that they think is important, like a Hustler magazine that hit news like a Hustler magazine that hit news like a Hustler magazine that hit news stands after [music] Carrie vanished stands after [music] Carrie vanished stands after [music] Carrie vanished with an article about a hitman who with an article about a hitman who with an article about a hitman who refused a polygraph [music] and a couple refused a polygraph [music] and a couple refused a polygraph [music] and a couple of shotguns in the basement, one loaded. of shotguns in the basement, one loaded. of shotguns in the basement, one loaded. [music] They also scrape a red sandy [music] They also scrape a red sandy [music] They also scrape a red sandy residue off the ceiling of Tracy's residue off the ceiling of Tracy's residue off the ceiling of Tracy's truck. They grab some documents. And in truck. They grab some documents. And in truck. They grab some documents. And in the bedroom, they peel away [music] the bedroom, they peel away [music] the bedroom, they peel away [music] strips of wallpaper marked with strips of wallpaper marked with strips of wallpaper marked with suspicious reddish brown colored stains.

suspicious reddish brown colored stains. suspicious reddish brown colored stains. [music] [music] [music] But more important than what they find But more important than what they find But more important than what they find is what they can't find. [music] So is what they can't find. [music] So is what they can't find. [music] So remember the $500 that Tracy says Carrie remember the $500 that Tracy says Carrie remember the $500 that Tracy says Carrie took from their emergency stash on her took from their emergency stash on her took from their emergency stash on her way out. That money that they kept in way out. That money that they kept in way out. That money that they kept in the basement [music] the basement [music] the basement [music] air duct, it's not there. air duct, it's not there. air duct, it's not there. >> I mean, so that tracks the money isn't >> I mean, so that tracks the money isn't >> I mean, so that tracks the money isn't there. there. there. >> No, no, not the money. [music] >> No, no, not the money. [music] >> No, no, not the money. [music] There is no air duct. The hiding spot There is no air duct. The hiding spot There is no air duct. The hiding spot doesn't even exist. And you know what doesn't even exist. And you know what doesn't even exist. And you know what else is missing? Any sign that Carrie else is missing? Any sign that Carrie else is missing? Any sign that Carrie was planning to leave. It is the was planning to leave. It is the was planning to leave. It is the opposite. There is the decorated opposite. There is the decorated opposite. There is the decorated Christmas tree, a half-finished pine Christmas tree, a half-finished pine Christmas tree, a half-finished pine cone wreath that she was making, and a cone wreath that she was making, and a cone wreath that she was making, and a long handwritten list of gifts that she long handwritten list of gifts that she long handwritten list of gifts that she still wanted to buy for everyone, still wanted to buy for everyone, still wanted to buy for everyone, including her daughter Megan. [music] including her daughter Megan. [music] including her daughter Megan. [music] And speaking of Megan, while Tracy is And speaking of Megan, while Tracy is And speaking of Megan, while Tracy is hospitalized, the O'Brien's are trying hospitalized, the O'Brien's are trying hospitalized, the O'Brien's are trying for temporary custody, [music] for temporary custody, [music] for temporary custody, [music] but he won't sign off on it. but he won't sign off on it. but he won't sign off on it. >> Who's he? >> Who's he? >> Who's he? >> Like, Tracy won't sign off on it. Like >> Like, Tracy won't sign off on it. Like >> Like, Tracy won't sign off on it. Like he says that he's just a teenage boy he says that he's just a teenage boy he says that he's just a teenage boy basically and he needs his parents to basically and he needs his parents to basically and he needs his parents to help him handle this complicated adult help him handle this complicated adult help him handle this complicated adult situation.

situation. situation. >> I mean he doesn't even remember having a >> I mean he doesn't even remember having a >> I mean he doesn't even remember having a child. So like why does he have any say child. So like why does he have any say child. So like why does he have any say in who's taking care of her where she in who's taking care of her where she in who's taking care of her where she lives? lives? lives? >> Amnesia or not, he's still legally her >> Amnesia or not, he's still legally her >> Amnesia or not, he's still legally her father. And so like by the book of the father. And so like by the book of the father. And so like by the book of the law that apparently outranks anything law that apparently outranks anything law that apparently outranks anything that the O'Brien's can [music] claim. that the O'Brien's can [music] claim. that the O'Brien's can [music] claim. So, he gets supervised visits and once So, he gets supervised visits and once So, he gets supervised visits and once he's out of the hospital and back at his he's out of the hospital and back at his he's out of the hospital and back at his parents' place in [music] late January, parents' place in [music] late January, parents' place in [music] late January, Megan is with him. Gary's family tries Megan is with him. Gary's family tries Megan is with him. Gary's family tries to stay in her life. [music] But the few to stay in her life. [music] But the few to stay in her life. [music] But the few visits they managed were rare, brief, visits they managed were rare, brief, visits they managed were rare, brief, and honestly awkward. So, within a and honestly awkward. So, within a and honestly awkward. So, within a couple of years, even those stopped. And couple of years, even those stopped. And couple of years, even those stopped. And they don't just lose Megan. [music] they don't just lose Megan. [music] they don't just lose Megan. [music] As time drags on, they also lose faith As time drags on, they also lose faith As time drags on, they also lose faith in the Burlington Police Department. in the Burlington Police Department. in the Burlington Police Department. [music] And I'm not trying to Monday [music] And I'm not trying to Monday [music] And I'm not trying to Monday morning quarterback, but during our morning quarterback, but during our morning quarterback, but during our reporting, I kept noticing this bizarre reporting, I kept noticing this bizarre reporting, I kept noticing this bizarre dichotomy. dichotomy. dichotomy. On paper, detectives were clearly On paper, detectives were clearly On paper, detectives were clearly suspicious of Tracy, but there was a suspicious of Tracy, but there was a suspicious of Tracy, but there was a lack of urgency with certain things, as lack of urgency with certain things, as lack of urgency with certain things, as if they had already decided that he was if they had already decided that he was if they had already decided that he was telling the [music] truth. Like for telling the [music] truth. Like for telling the [music] truth. Like for instance, a second mortgage they find instance, a second mortgage they find instance, a second mortgage they find out [music] was taken out on the Krueger out [music] was taken out on the Krueger out [music] was taken out on the Krueger home in October of 1989. We're talking home in October of 1989. We're talking home in October of 1989. We're talking just like months before she goes just like months before she goes just like months before she goes missing. And it was taken [music] out in missing. And it was taken [music] out in missing. And it was taken [music] out in both Carrie and Tracy's names. The both Carrie and Tracy's names. The both Carrie and Tracy's names. The paperwork was slow, so it didn't hit paperwork was slow, so it didn't hit paperwork was slow, so it didn't hit Carrie's social security number until

Carrie's social security number until Carrie's social security number until after she vanished. after she vanished. after she vanished. That was a hearts stopper because That was a hearts stopper because That was a hearts stopper because activity like that like could have activity like that like could have activity like that like could have signaled that she was actually out there signaled that she was actually out there signaled that she was actually out there using it. But then the police like using it. But then the police like using it. But then the police like traced it to the loan and they figure traced it to the loan and they figure traced it to the loan and they figure like, okay, mystery [music] solved. But like, okay, mystery [music] solved. But like, okay, mystery [music] solved. But it seemed like they breeze past the it seemed like they breeze past the it seemed like they breeze past the obvious question. [music] Did Carrie obvious question. [music] Did Carrie obvious question. [music] Did Carrie actually sign it? Did Carrie know about actually sign it? Did Carrie know about actually sign it? Did Carrie know about it? The O'Briens don't think so. They it? The O'Briens don't think so. They it? The O'Briens don't think so. They believe that her signature might have believe that her signature might have believe that her signature might have been forged, been forged, been forged, >> but they will probably never know >> but they will probably never know >> but they will probably never know because Burlington PD didn't pull the because Burlington PD didn't pull the because Burlington PD didn't pull the documents or even bother to talk to the documents or even bother to talk to the documents or even bother to talk to the notary. Well, and they had a forgery notary. Well, and they had a forgery notary. Well, and they had a forgery suspicion already about the truck suspicion already about the truck suspicion already about the truck paperwork. Like, why would you not paperwork. Like, why would you not paperwork. Like, why would you not follow up on this? follow up on this? follow up on this? >> It is baffling. And by the way, the >> It is baffling. And by the way, the >> It is baffling. And by the way, the truck is a whole another problem because truck is a whole another problem because truck is a whole another problem because by the time the department requested by the time the department requested by the time the department requested those sales documents [music] from the those sales documents [music] from the those sales documents [music] from the DMV, it was too late. The originals had DMV, it was too late. The originals had DMV, it was too late. The originals had been shredded. So, they were stuck with been shredded. So, they were stuck with been shredded. So, they were stuck with copies of them. So, handwriting analysis copies of them. So, handwriting analysis copies of them. So, handwriting analysis were all inconclusive. You generally were all inconclusive. You generally were all inconclusive. You generally can't authenticate a signature off of a can't authenticate a signature off of a can't authenticate a signature off of a copy, copy, copy, >> right? You need to know like how hard it >> right? You need to know like how hard it >> right? You need to know like how hard it was pressed. There's like a lot of like was pressed. There's like a lot of like was pressed. There's like a lot of like specific things.

specific things. specific things. >> And paperwork isn't the only thing that >> And paperwork isn't the only thing that >> And paperwork isn't the only thing that was fumbled. [music] A few months after was fumbled. [music] A few months after was fumbled. [music] A few months after Carrie vanished, deputies in a Carrie vanished, deputies in a Carrie vanished, deputies in a neighboring county found [music] neighboring county found [music] neighboring county found [music] bloody men's clothes, including pajamas bloody men's clothes, including pajamas bloody men's clothes, including pajamas and a pullover. This is like 16 miles and a pullover. This is like 16 miles and a pullover. This is like 16 miles from Burlington. from Burlington. from Burlington. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> The PJs had two bullet holes near the >> The PJs had two bullet holes near the >> The PJs had two bullet holes near the underarm, and the crime lab determined a underarm, and the crime lab determined a underarm, and the crime lab determined a gun had been fired at close range. Now, gun had been fired at close range. Now, gun had been fired at close range. Now, Carrie's sister thought that the top Carrie's sister thought that the top Carrie's sister thought that the top looked like one that Tracy might wear, looked like one that Tracy might wear, looked like one that Tracy might wear, and she believed that Carrie sometimes and she believed that Carrie sometimes and she believed that Carrie sometimes wore his pajamas, although I don't think wore his pajamas, although I don't think wore his pajamas, although I don't think that was ever actually confirmed to be that was ever actually confirmed to be that was ever actually confirmed to be fair. Either way, that [music] evidence fair. Either way, that [music] evidence fair. Either way, that [music] evidence is gone, too. There is no record of the is gone, too. There is no record of the is gone, too. There is no record of the blood being tested and it doesn't seem blood being tested and it doesn't seem blood being tested and it doesn't seem like Burlington [music] like even kept like Burlington [music] like even kept like Burlington [music] like even kept the evidence. Oh, and you know what else the evidence. Oh, and you know what else the evidence. Oh, and you know what else is gone? That red sandy substance that is gone? That red sandy substance that is gone? That red sandy substance that police [music] found on the ceiling of police [music] found on the ceiling of police [music] found on the ceiling of Tracy's truck. But this one is different Tracy's truck. But this one is different Tracy's truck. But this one is different because we know exactly how it [music] because we know exactly how it [music] because we know exactly how it [music] disappeared. A detective just threw it disappeared. A detective just threw it disappeared. A detective just threw it out. What? He said he was cleaning out. What? He said he was cleaning out. What? He said he was cleaning [music] house, getting rid of things [music] house, getting rid of things [music] house, getting rid of things that police didn't need for the that police didn't need for the that police didn't need for the investigation.

investigation. investigation. >> Um, okay. >> Um, okay. >> Um, okay. >> Don't eat it. >> Don't eat it. >> Don't eat it. >> How would he know what they need or >> How would he know what they need or >> How would he know what they need or don't need? It's an unsolved [music] don't need? It's an unsolved [music] don't need? It's an unsolved [music] case. case. case. >> And it hadn't been tested. >> And it hadn't been tested. >> And it hadn't been tested. >> Like literally, >> Like literally, >> Like literally, >> to be clear, >> to be clear, >> to be clear, >> anything could be important. Anything >> anything could be important. Anything >> anything could be important. Anything could be relevant. could be relevant. could be relevant. >> You [music] know, to add to this, there >> You [music] know, to add to this, there >> You [music] know, to add to this, there is a rumor that that same detective was is a rumor that that same detective was is a rumor that that same detective was a family friend of the Krueger, [music] a family friend of the Krueger, [music] a family friend of the Krueger, [music] like Tracy's family. like Tracy's family. like Tracy's family. So, you can imagine how that sits with So, you can imagine how that sits with So, you can imagine how that sits with the O'Brien, especially since, like I the O'Brien, especially since, like I the O'Brien, especially since, like I said, he tossed it before it was ever said, he tossed it before it was ever said, he tossed it before it was ever tested and the family had actually lined tested and the family had actually lined tested and the family had actually lined up a soil expert to test it. up a soil expert to test it. up a soil expert to test it. >> So, the family lined up the soil expert. >> So, the family lined up the soil expert. >> So, the family lined up the soil expert. >> Yeah. Because they're basically working >> Yeah. Because they're basically working >> Yeah. Because they're basically working the case themselves. They spearheaded the case themselves. They spearheaded the case themselves. They spearheaded search efforts. They keep an eye on search efforts. They keep an eye on search efforts. They keep an eye on Tracy. [music] Kathy even puts her Tracy. [music] Kathy even puts her Tracy. [music] Kathy even puts her prosecutor job on hold and moves home prosecutor job on hold and moves home prosecutor job on hold and moves home for months to run [music] point on this. for months to run [music] point on this. for months to run [music] point on this. They hire a PI and Carrie's mom collects They hire a PI and Carrie's mom collects They hire a PI and Carrie's mom collects [music] thousands of signatures [music] thousands of signatures [music] thousands of signatures petitioning the attorney general to move petitioning the attorney general to move petitioning the attorney general to move the case to a different agency. [music] the case to a different agency. [music] the case to a different agency. [music] And they do get some help from the And they do get some help from the And they do get some help from the state, but it doesn't sound like it was state, but it doesn't sound like it was state, but it doesn't sound like it was much of an upgrade. According to much of an upgrade. According to much of an upgrade. According to Carrie's sister, Colleen, an agent Carrie's sister, Colleen, an agent Carrie's sister, Colleen, an agent suggested Carrie ran off to join [music] suggested Carrie ran off to join [music] suggested Carrie ran off to join [music] the circus or the Ice Capades because the circus or the Ice Capades because the circus or the Ice Capades because women do stuff like that. You know, women do stuff like that. You know, women do stuff like that. You know, Ashley, we've covered a lot of missing Ashley, we've covered a lot of missing Ashley, we've covered a lot of missing person's cases and a lot of those person's cases and a lot of those person's cases and a lot of those [music] missing persons are women. Have [music] missing persons are women. Have [music] missing persons are women. Have we ever considered looking at [music]

we ever considered looking at [music] we ever considered looking at [music] like like like ice capes? ice capes? ice capes? >> We should. I I hadn't thought of it. >> We should. I I hadn't thought of it. >> We should. I I hadn't thought of it. What a brilliant idea from this man. What a brilliant idea from this man. What a brilliant idea from this man. >> I'm assuming it's a man. [laughter] >> I'm assuming it's a man. [laughter] >> I'm assuming it's a man. [laughter] >> Sorry. >> Sorry. >> Sorry. But also, what But also, what But also, what >> I know, I know. Now, listen, tips do >> I know, I know. Now, listen, tips do >> I know, I know. Now, listen, tips do come in occasionally [music] come in occasionally [music] come in occasionally [music] that will get looked at. And there that will get looked at. And there that will get looked at. And there actually was one tip about Tracy's actually was one tip about Tracy's actually was one tip about Tracy's brother that I thought was interesting. brother that I thought was interesting. brother that I thought was interesting. Apparently, he had been telling people Apparently, he had been telling people Apparently, he had been telling people that Tracy quote blew her away. And when that Tracy quote blew her away. And when that Tracy quote blew her away. And when police confront him about this, cuz you police confront him about this, cuz you police confront him about this, cuz you got to got to got to >> Yeah. He admits he said it, but he >> Yeah. He admits he said it, but he >> Yeah. He admits he said it, but he swears it [music] was just a tasteless swears it [music] was just a tasteless swears it [music] was just a tasteless joke. He agrees to avoid stress test, joke. He agrees to avoid stress test, joke. He agrees to avoid stress test, and [music] I know it's not the most and [music] I know it's not the most and [music] I know it's not the most reliable tool, but I think it's worth reliable tool, but I think it's worth reliable tool, but I think it's worth noting. They ask him if he helped get noting. They ask him if he helped get noting. They ask him if he helped get rid of Carrie's [music] body, and if rid of Carrie's [music] body, and if rid of Carrie's [music] body, and if Tracy ever told him that he killed Tracy ever told him that he killed Tracy ever told him that he killed [music] her, he says no to both. He [music] her, he says no to both. He [music] her, he says no to both. He passes the first one. Did you help get passes the first one. Did you help get passes the first one. Did you help get rid of her body?

rid of her body? rid of her body? He fails the second one. Did Tracy ever He fails the second one. Did Tracy ever He fails the second one. Did Tracy ever tell you that he killed her? tell you that he killed her? tell you that he killed her? >> Now, this next thing isn't like [music] >> Now, this next thing isn't like [music] >> Now, this next thing isn't like [music] a tip. In fact, I don't really know what a tip. In fact, I don't really know what a tip. In fact, I don't really know what it means, but every so often, something it means, but every so often, something it means, but every so often, something strange [music] lands in the O'Brien's strange [music] lands in the O'Brien's strange [music] lands in the O'Brien's mailbox. Most of it's like harmless mailbox. Most of it's like harmless mailbox. Most of it's like harmless junk. [music] junk. [music] junk. [music] But one delivery, they get this fake But one delivery, they get this fake But one delivery, they get this fake severed [music] finger. I'm sorry, what? severed [music] finger. I'm sorry, what? severed [music] finger. I'm sorry, what? Whether this is a sick prank or a real Whether this is a sick prank or a real Whether this is a sick prank or a real threat, nobody can say. But even like threat, nobody can say. But even like threat, nobody can say. But even like with this stuff coming in, like nothing with this stuff coming in, like nothing with this stuff coming in, like nothing moves the needle. So [music] years pass. moves the needle. So [music] years pass. moves the needle. So [music] years pass. Tracy and Megan get a fresh start Tracy and Megan get a fresh start Tracy and Megan get a fresh start eventually a few hours [music] away. He eventually a few hours [music] away. He eventually a few hours [music] away. He remarries. life keeps moving forward for remarries. life keeps moving forward for remarries. life keeps moving forward for him while Carrie just stays frozen in him while Carrie just stays frozen in him while Carrie just stays frozen in time. The O'Brien have no [music] doubt time. The O'Brien have no [music] doubt time. The O'Brien have no [music] doubt that she was murdered. But Tracy tells that she was murdered. But Tracy tells that she was murdered. But Tracy tells Journal Times reporter Jane [music] Journal Times reporter Jane [music] Journal Times reporter Jane [music] Ryder that he thinks Carrie is out there Ryder that he thinks Carrie is out there Ryder that he thinks Carrie is out there somewhere. Although he still can't somewhere. Although he still can't somewhere. Although he still can't remember the disappearance or like remember the disappearance or like remember the disappearance or like anything from the decade before it.

anything from the decade before it. anything from the decade before it. [music] [music] [music] >> So his memory never came back. >> So his memory never came back. >> So his memory never came back. >> He says no. And he blames it [music] on >> He says no. And he blames it [music] on >> He says no. And he blames it [music] on a stroke, which by the way, like to be a stroke, which by the way, like to be a stroke, which by the way, like to be clear, I said this earlier, but in case clear, I said this earlier, but in case clear, I said this earlier, but in case you missed it, a stroke was ruled out by you missed it, a stroke was ruled out by you missed it, a stroke was ruled out by the doctors. the doctors. the doctors. >> I [music] don't get how he's saying >> I [music] don't get how he's saying >> I [music] don't get how he's saying anything if it's like all a blank. Like, anything if it's like all a blank. Like, anything if it's like all a blank. Like, how do you know she ran off even if you how do you know she ran off even if you how do you know she ran off even if you truly don't even remember knowing this truly don't even remember knowing this truly don't even remember knowing this woman? woman? woman? >> Well, with his like memories gone or no >> Well, with his like memories gone or no >> Well, with his like memories gone or no memories of his own, he says that he's memories of his own, he says that he's memories of his own, he says that he's relying on what his loved ones have told relying on what his loved ones have told relying on what his loved ones have told [music] him. and he basically just [music] him. and he basically just [music] him. and he basically just doesn't think that he's capable of doesn't think that he's capable of doesn't think that he's capable of whatever they're accusing him of. whatever they're accusing him of. whatever they're accusing him of. [music] And listen, his daughter Megan [music] And listen, his daughter Megan [music] And listen, his daughter Megan believed that. I mean, she still does as believed that. I mean, she still does as believed that. I mean, she still does as far as I know. And listen, honestly, I far as I know. And listen, honestly, I far as I know. And listen, honestly, I cannot begin to imagine what it's like cannot begin to imagine what it's like cannot begin to imagine what it's like to walk in [music] her shoes. She to walk in [music] her shoes. She to walk in [music] her shoes. She declined to speak with us for this declined to speak with us for this declined to speak with us for this episode, which I understand because episode, which I understand because episode, which I understand because [music] [music] [music] >> there is no good outcome for her in this >> there is no good outcome for her in this >> there is no good outcome for her in this case, and it's not a case to her. This case, and it's not a case to her. This case, and it's not a case to her. This is her life. And I just want to give is her life. And I just want to give is her life. And I just want to give that a moment for everyone because I that a moment for everyone because I that a moment for everyone because I think it's really easy to judge and think it's really easy to judge and think it's really easy to judge and that's not what's needed here. Empathy that's not what's needed here. Empathy that's not what's needed here. Empathy [music] is you are innocent until proven [music] is you are innocent until proven [music] is you are innocent until proven guilty. I don't want to sugarcoat the guilty. I don't want to sugarcoat the guilty. I don't want to sugarcoat the facts, [music] but like try to put facts, [music] but like try to put facts, [music] but like try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for yourself in someone else's shoes for yourself in someone else's shoes for just a minute. She is up against a world just a minute. She is up against a world just a minute. She is up against a world where most people don't see this case where most people don't see this case where most people don't see this case the way that she does. [music] the way that she does. [music] the way that she does. [music] And it's not her job to fight. She has And it's not her job to fight. She has And it's not her job to fight. She has to do what is best for herself. And I to do what is best for herself. And I to do what is best for herself. And I believe that with every fiber of my believe that with every fiber of my believe that with every fiber of my being. Like as a mother myself, being. Like as a mother myself, being. Like as a mother myself, >> if I were Carrie, if I were gone, all I

>> if I were Carrie, if I were gone, all I >> if I were Carrie, if I were gone, all I would want is for my baby to be okay. would want is for my baby to be okay. would want is for my baby to be okay. >> So Megan [music] has to do what will >> So Megan [music] has to do what will >> So Megan [music] has to do what will make her be okay. And listen, she was make her be okay. And listen, she was make her be okay. And listen, she was really little when this happened. So, I really little when this happened. So, I really little when this happened. So, I don't know if they were even able to don't know if they were even able to don't know if they were even able to talk to her or or any of that, but I talk to her or or any of that, but I talk to her or or any of that, but I know that as she gets older, she does know that as she gets older, she does know that as she gets older, she does speak with investigators because around speak with investigators because around speak with investigators because around 2013, [music] the O'Brien's finally got 2013, [music] the O'Brien's finally got 2013, [music] the O'Brien's finally got their wish. A Burlington officer their wish. A Burlington officer their wish. A Burlington officer transferred to the Rine County Sheriff's transferred to the Rine County Sheriff's transferred to the Rine County Sheriff's Office [music] and ultimately took Office [music] and ultimately took Office [music] and ultimately took Carrie's file with her. Now, Carrie's file with her. Now, Carrie's file with her. Now, unfortunately, Carrie's mom didn't live unfortunately, Carrie's mom didn't live unfortunately, Carrie's mom didn't live to see it. Neither [music] to see it. Neither [music] to see it. Neither [music] did her father or some of her siblings. did her father or some of her siblings. did her father or some of her siblings. But at least now there are real But at least now there are real But at least now there are real resources behind her case and a team resources behind her case and a team resources behind her case and a team ready to dig in like [music] Lieutenant ready to dig in like [music] Lieutenant ready to dig in like [music] Lieutenant Brian Vans sock. And if that name rings Brian Vans sock. And if that name rings Brian Vans sock. And if that name rings a bell, it's because we have worked with a bell, it's because we have worked with a bell, it's because we have worked with him before. He's the reason that you are him before. He's the reason that you are him before. He's the reason that you are hearing this story [music] hearing this story [music] hearing this story [music] now. He asked if we would cover it. The now. He asked if we would cover it. The now. He asked if we would cover it. The way he sees it, Car's family deserves way he sees it, Car's family deserves way he sees it, Car's family deserves answers.

answers. answers. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> So, to go back to 2013, one of the first >> So, to go back to 2013, one of the first >> So, to go back to 2013, one of the first things these investigators do is they go things these investigators do is they go things these investigators do is they go back to the people closest to Carrie. back to the people closest to Carrie. back to the people closest to Carrie. And that means sitting down with [music] And that means sitting down with [music] And that means sitting down with [music] Megan and she tells them that she barely Megan and she tells them that she barely Megan and she tells them that she barely remembers her mom, [music] but she had a remembers her mom, [music] but she had a remembers her mom, [music] but she had a childhood full of love with her dad. childhood full of love with her dad. childhood full of love with her dad. Tracy was a good father, she says, Tracy was a good father, she says, Tracy was a good father, she says, [music] and that's what she has to base [music] and that's what she has to base [music] and that's what she has to base things off of. And according to police things off of. And according to police things off of. And according to police reports, the little her dad did share reports, the little her dad did share reports, the little her dad did share with her about her mom wasn't good. He with her about her mom wasn't good. He with her about her mom wasn't good. He told Megan that her mother was cold and told Megan that her mother was cold and told Megan that her mother was cold and uncaring, [music] uncaring, [music] uncaring, [music] that she got tired of being a parent and that she got tired of being a parent and that she got tired of being a parent and walked out. And Megan didn't question walked out. And Megan didn't question walked out. And Megan didn't question it. He rarely brought Carrie up at all it. He rarely brought Carrie up at all it. He rarely brought Carrie up at all beyond that. And Megan didn't push. So beyond that. And Megan didn't push. So beyond that. And Megan didn't push. So most of what she knows she has [music] most of what she knows she has [music] most of what she knows she has [music] pieced together online. Meanwhile, the pieced together online. Meanwhile, the pieced together online. Meanwhile, the one consistent in her life was her dad, one consistent in her life was her dad, one consistent in her life was her dad, [music] Tracy. He is the one who took [music] Tracy. He is the one who took [music] Tracy. He is the one who took care of her and moved them somewhere new care of her and moved them somewhere new care of her and moved them somewhere new when Burlington got to be too much. But when Burlington got to be too much. But when Burlington got to be too much. But I will say that move wasn't random. They I will say that move wasn't random. They I will say that move wasn't random. They landed [music] in the same spot as landed [music] in the same spot as landed [music] in the same spot as Tracy's old counselor, that woman who Tracy's old counselor, that woman who Tracy's old counselor, that woman who was so sure that his amnesia was real.

was so sure that his amnesia was real. was so sure that his amnesia was real. [music] [music] [music] >> What? Here is what the Rine County case >> What? Here is what the Rine County case >> What? Here is what the Rine County case review report says about that interview review report says about that interview review report says about that interview with Megan. with Megan. with Megan. Quote, Megan said that Tracy had moved Quote, Megan said that Tracy had moved Quote, Megan said that Tracy had moved to Lacrosse a few years after Carrie to Lacrosse a few years after Carrie to Lacrosse a few years after Carrie went missing to get away from it all. went missing to get away from it all. went missing to get away from it all. Also, his [music] therapist/friend Also, his [music] therapist/friend Also, his [music] therapist/friend was moving up there and he moved up was moving up there and he moved up was moving up there and he moved up there to be closer to her. [music] there to be closer to her. [music] there to be closer to her. [music] In fact, they have homes on the same In fact, they have homes on the same In fact, they have homes on the same piece of property [music] to this day. piece of property [music] to this day. piece of property [music] to this day. Megan says she even called the counselor Megan says she even called the counselor Megan says she even called the counselor mom for a while. mom for a while. mom for a while. Okay. And homes on the same property. Okay. And homes on the same property. Okay. And homes on the same property. >> Yes. But it [music] does not seem like >> Yes. But it [music] does not seem like >> Yes. But it [music] does not seem like they were romantically involved. And they were romantically involved. And they were romantically involved. And just to be clear, she is not the woman just to be clear, she is not the woman just to be clear, she is not the woman that he like went on to marry later. that he like went on to marry later. that he like went on to marry later. They described the relationship more They described the relationship more They described the relationship more like a surrogate family. But Carrie's like a surrogate family. But Carrie's like a surrogate family. But Carrie's family didn't get that kind of place in family didn't get that kind of place in family didn't get that kind of place in Megan's life, though. Tracy told Megan Megan's life, though. Tracy told Megan Megan's life, though. Tracy told Megan that the O'Brien had stalked and that the O'Brien had stalked and that the O'Brien had stalked and harassed him. He even claimed that harassed him. He even claimed that harassed him. He even claimed that they'd broken in and stolen her mom's they'd broken in and stolen her mom's they'd broken in and stolen her mom's wedding ring. But here is the lie we can wedding ring. But here is the lie we can wedding ring. But here is the lie we can outright catch him in. Because in 2015, outright catch him in. Because in 2015, outright catch him in. Because in 2015, on the 26th anniversary of Car's on the 26th anniversary of Car's on the 26th anniversary of Car's disappearance, [music] disappearance, [music] disappearance, [music] Tracy speaks with a sergeant and he Tracy speaks with a sergeant and he Tracy speaks with a sergeant and he admits that he pawned both of their admits that he pawned both of their admits that he pawned both of their rings when [music] he needed cash. Now, rings when [music] he needed cash. Now, rings when [music] he needed cash. Now, we reached out to Tracy for this episode we reached out to Tracy for this episode we reached out to Tracy for this episode and he never got back to us. But I want and he never got back to us. But I want and he never got back to us. But I want you to hear him tell his story [music]

you to hear him tell his story [music] you to hear him tell his story [music] in his words. So, let me play parts of in his words. So, let me play parts of in his words. So, let me play parts of that 2015 interview for you. >> My impression is that she was a a very >> My impression is that she was a a very wonderful person. wonderful person. wonderful person. >> Okay. And where did you get that >> Okay. And where did you get that >> Okay. And where did you get that impression from? impression from? impression from? >> From friends and family. >> From friends and family. >> From friends and family. >> Okay. So, where would Megan have gotten >> Okay. So, where would Megan have gotten >> Okay. So, where would Megan have gotten the impression that she was kind of a the impression that she was kind of a the impression that she was kind of a cold, cold, cold, uncaring, and selfish person? uncaring, and selfish person? uncaring, and selfish person? Um I that I'm not sure. I don't know. Um I that I'm not sure. I don't know. Um I that I'm not sure. I don't know. You'd have to ask her. You'd have to ask her. You'd have to ask her. >> Well, well, we did ask her. >> Well, well, we did ask her. >> Well, well, we did ask her. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And she said that that's kind of the >> And she said that that's kind of the >> And she said that that's kind of the impression that you had given her. impression that you had given her. impression that you had given her. >> Well, I don't know how she interpreted >> Well, I don't know how she interpreted >> Well, I don't know how she interpreted [snorts] that. And I'm not going to pit [snorts] that. And I'm not going to pit [snorts] that. And I'm not going to pit myself against my daughter. Everything I myself against my daughter. Everything I myself against my daughter. Everything I know about the case is after the fact, know about the case is after the fact, know about the case is after the fact, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> There's nothing I have no memory from >> There's nothing I have no memory from >> There's nothing I have no memory from before then. So everything is had to be before then. So everything is had to be before then. So everything is had to be relearned. relearned. relearned. >> When you were getting a a handle back >> When you were getting a a handle back >> When you were getting a a handle back that that was your reality, what what that that was your reality, what what that that was your reality, what what were you thinking? What were your were you thinking? What were your were you thinking? What were your feelings about that?

feelings about that? feelings about that? >> Um very overwhelmed. >> Um very overwhelmed. >> Um very overwhelmed. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You know that you know it was all so new >> You know that you know it was all so new >> You know that you know it was all so new to me. I mean just even the fact that I to me. I mean just even the fact that I to me. I mean just even the fact that I had a wife and child was astounding. had a wife and child was astounding. had a wife and child was astounding. And do you think that you kind of And do you think that you kind of And do you think that you kind of recalled some of that or is that stuff recalled some of that or is that stuff recalled some of that or is that stuff that you're saying that you only people that you're saying that you only people that you're saying that you only people told you? told you? told you? >> Well, after I had the stroke and >> Well, after I had the stroke and >> Well, after I had the stroke and everything everything was that was told everything everything was that was told everything everything was that was told me was astounding. me was astounding. me was astounding. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> You know, I was just just baffled, you >> You know, I was just just baffled, you >> You know, I was just just baffled, you know, you know, because I didn't believe know, you know, because I didn't believe know, you know, because I didn't believe I was at that age. And I mean, this is I was at that age. And I mean, this is I was at that age. And I mean, this is all in in your report. It's all in the all in in your report. It's all in the all in in your report. It's all in the interview. I know. interview. I know. interview. I know. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I know that it's all in interviews, but >> I know that it's all in interviews, but >> I know that it's all in interviews, but it's been 26 years. I I'm sure that it's been 26 years. I I'm sure that it's been 26 years. I I'm sure that you've been asked this question you've been asked this question you've been asked this question repeatedly through the years. What do repeatedly through the years. What do repeatedly through the years. What do you think happened? >> As I've mentioned before, probably 10 >> As I've mentioned before, probably 10 times to Sunday, I believe she left. times to Sunday, I believe she left. times to Sunday, I believe she left. >> Why Why would she leave?

>> Why Why would she leave? >> Why Why would she leave? >> We don't know. Um, looking back and >> We don't know. Um, looking back and >> We don't know. Um, looking back and talking to people after the fact, I talking to people after the fact, I talking to people after the fact, I think there were some think there were some think there were some psychological issues that she was psychological issues that she was psychological issues that she was suffering from. suffering from. suffering from. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, I [clears throat] think maybe manic >> Um, I [clears throat] think maybe manic >> Um, I [clears throat] think maybe manic depressives and granted um, depressives and granted um, depressives and granted um, psychologists cannot psychologists cannot psychologists cannot diagnose a person without seeing that diagnose a person without seeing that diagnose a person without seeing that person, but getting opinions from people person, but getting opinions from people person, but getting opinions from people in the field. Um they raised that as a in the field. Um they raised that as a in the field. Um they raised that as a strong possibility that yes, she did strong possibility that yes, she did strong possibility that yes, she did have issues. have issues. have issues. >> Okay. But but what do you think happened >> Okay. But but what do you think happened >> Okay. But but what do you think happened to her after she left? I mean, she's to her after she left? I mean, she's to her after she left? I mean, she's never used her social security number. never used her social security number. never used her social security number. She's never used a credit card. She's She's never used a credit card. She's She's never used a credit card. She's never gotten a driver's license. never gotten a driver's license. never gotten a driver's license. >> I don't know if but obviously if she >> I don't know if but obviously if she >> I don't know if but obviously if she did, she didn't use that given name. I did, she didn't use that given name. I did, she didn't use that given name. I mean I mean I mean I it's at that time it was so easy to do. it's at that time it was so easy to do. it's at that time it was so easy to do. My feeling is if she were dead, My feeling is if she were dead, My feeling is if she were dead, somewhere that body would have shown up somewhere that body would have shown up somewhere that body would have shown up some place or another, some place or another, some place or another, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Somewhere there would have to be a body >> Somewhere there would have to be a body >> Somewhere there would have to be a body >> now. Again, we know that doctors confirm >> now. Again, we know that doctors confirm >> now. Again, we know that doctors confirm Tracy did not have a stroke [music] Tracy did not have a stroke [music] Tracy did not have a stroke [music] in 1990, but that is the story he's in 1990, but that is the story he's in 1990, but that is the story he's sticking with. So, investigators decide sticking with. So, investigators decide sticking with. So, investigators decide that they're going to put this to the that they're going to put this to the that they're going to put this to the test again. They hand his old hospital test again. They hand his old hospital test again. They hand his old hospital records [music] to a new neurologist for records [music] to a new neurologist for records [music] to a new neurologist for a fresh read. And she agrees with the a fresh read. And she agrees with the a fresh read. And she agrees with the [music] 1990s clinicians. No stroke, no [music] 1990s clinicians. No stroke, no [music] 1990s clinicians. No stroke, no medical reason for any of [music] it.

medical reason for any of [music] it. medical reason for any of [music] it. But she disagrees in another part. She But she disagrees in another part. She But she disagrees in another part. She thinks that he could be faking. [music] thinks that he could be faking. [music] thinks that he could be faking. [music] A forensic psychiatrist goes even A forensic psychiatrist goes even A forensic psychiatrist goes even further. To him, this all sounds like further. To him, this all sounds like further. To him, this all sounds like BS. [music] Sure, trauma can do a number BS. [music] Sure, trauma can do a number BS. [music] Sure, trauma can do a number on a person, but it doesn't just reset a on a person, but it doesn't just reset a on a person, but it doesn't just reset a grown man's memory [music] back to his grown man's memory [music] back to his grown man's memory [music] back to his teens and keep it blank for now decades. teens and keep it blank for now decades. teens and keep it blank for now decades. >> And the amnesia isn't the only thing >> And the amnesia isn't the only thing >> And the amnesia isn't the only thing back under a microscope. Because Tracy's back under a microscope. Because Tracy's back under a microscope. Because Tracy's also still leaning on this idea that also still leaning on this idea that also still leaning on this idea that Carrie was in the middle of a depressive Carrie was in the middle of a depressive Carrie was in the middle of a depressive episode, episode, episode, >> a manic depressive, [music] he said, >> a manic depressive, [music] he said, >> a manic depressive, [music] he said, >> right? Though these days we would call >> right? Though these days we would call >> right? Though these days we would call that bipolar disorder. And remember, that bipolar disorder. And remember, that bipolar disorder. And remember, after she went missing, he had brought after she went missing, he had brought after she went missing, he had brought police a note from Car's physician police a note from Car's physician police a note from Car's physician saying that she was being treated for saying that she was being treated for saying that she was being treated for depression and she might be having depression and she might be having depression and she might be having suicidal thoughts, right? Like that's suicidal thoughts, right? Like that's suicidal thoughts, right? Like that's what cranked everything into high gear. what cranked everything into high gear. what cranked everything into high gear. >> Well, guess what? Apparently, nobody >> Well, guess what? Apparently, nobody >> Well, guess what? Apparently, nobody ever asked that doctor if he actually ever asked that doctor if he actually ever asked that doctor if he actually wrote that note because when new wrote that note because when new wrote that note because when new investigators go check, he's like, "No, investigators go check, he's like, "No, investigators go check, he's like, "No, definitely not. I never treated anyone definitely not. I never treated anyone definitely not. I never treated anyone for [music] depression." But Tracy won't for [music] depression." But Tracy won't for [music] depression." But Tracy won't let this idea go. Even before he lost let this idea go. Even before he lost let this idea go. Even before he lost his memory, he was telling Car's family his memory, he was telling Car's family his memory, he was telling Car's family that she was depressed. [music] And then that she was depressed. [music] And then that she was depressed. [music] And then there's the counselor who would go on to there's the counselor who would go on to there's the counselor who would go on to live on the same property as Tracy. Back live on the same property as Tracy. Back live on the same property as Tracy. Back in 1990, she told police that she had in 1990, she told police that she had in 1990, she told police that she had Car's diary [music] and that it showed a Car's diary [music] and that it showed a Car's diary [music] and that it showed a lot of anger towards Car's family, her lot of anger towards Car's family, her lot of anger towards Car's family, her mom specifically, going all the way back

mom specifically, going all the way back mom specifically, going all the way back to when Carrie was younger. to when Carrie was younger. to when Carrie was younger. >> And when is this diary from? >> And when is this diary from? >> And when is this diary from? >> That's the thing. Tracy actually hands >> That's the thing. Tracy actually hands >> That's the thing. Tracy actually hands the diary over himself eventually. Like the diary over himself eventually. Like the diary over himself eventually. Like he wants police to have it. He thinks it he wants police to have it. He thinks it he wants police to have it. He thinks it proves that Carrie was unhappy with her proves that Carrie was unhappy with her proves that Carrie was unhappy with her family. But when they look at the diary, family. But when they look at the diary, family. But when they look at the diary, it's [music] from Carrie's senior year it's [music] from Carrie's senior year it's [music] from Carrie's senior year of high school. of high school. of high school. >> Uh so we have grown older. >> Uh so we have grown older. >> Uh so we have grown older. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> But I I would love your read on this. I >> But I I would love your read on this. I >> But I I would love your read on this. I just had a senior in high school in my just had a senior in high school in my just had a senior in high school in my >> drama. Everything is drama. I And I know >> drama. Everything is drama. I And I know >> drama. Everything is drama. I And I know you know this. We read, we were reading you know this. We read, we were reading you know this. We read, we were reading my granted sophomore journal. my granted sophomore journal. my granted sophomore journal. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> On the plane when we were on tour, not >> On the plane when we were on tour, not >> On the plane when we were on tour, not senior year, but pretty damn close. senior year, but pretty damn close. senior year, but pretty damn close. >> And there is literally my favorite part. >> And there is literally my favorite part. >> And there is literally my favorite part. >> Our favorite there's one page that says >> Our favorite there's one page that says >> Our favorite there's one page that says like, "Oh my god, I had the best day like, "Oh my god, I had the best day like, "Oh my god, I had the best day ever. Like things are amazing. My life's ever. Like things are amazing. My life's ever. Like things are amazing. My life's going to be amazing. I am like going to be amazing. I am like going to be amazing. I am like >> I am on such an upward trajectory." And >> I am on such an upward trajectory." And >> I am on such an upward trajectory." And you literally turn the page and what you literally turn the page and what you literally turn the page and what does it say? Ashley Flowers. does it say? Ashley Flowers. does it say? Ashley Flowers. >> I [laughter] >> I [laughter] >> I [laughter] saying saying saying >> I without any reservations wish I was >> I without any reservations wish I was >> I without any reservations wish I was dead [music] dead [music] dead [music] >> in like Sharpie on the page and then you >> in like Sharpie on the page and then you >> in like Sharpie on the page and then you just turn the page and you're like so I just turn the page and you're like so I just turn the page and you're like so I was talking to so and so the other day.

was talking to so and so the other day. was talking to so and so the other day. Can you imagine if like I go missing and Can you imagine if like I go missing and Can you imagine if like I go missing and Eric takes that to he's like obviously Eric takes that to he's like obviously Eric takes that to he's like obviously she wanted to die. Like that's what it she wanted to die. Like that's what it she wanted to die. Like that's what it >> it's it's bonkers. >> it's it's bonkers. >> it's it's bonkers. >> So the note from the doctor is not real. >> So the note from the doctor is not real. >> So the note from the doctor is not real. >> Stroke's ruled [music] out. Stroke is >> Stroke's ruled [music] out. Stroke is >> Stroke's ruled [music] out. Stroke is ruled out. The amnesia is now in serious ruled out. The amnesia is now in serious ruled out. The amnesia is now in serious doubt, doubt, doubt, >> which to be honest has been for me since >> which to be honest has been for me since >> which to be honest has been for me since day one. But okay. day one. But okay. day one. But okay. >> Yeah. And still Tracy won't budge from >> Yeah. And still Tracy won't budge from >> Yeah. And still Tracy won't budge from the theory that he has pushed [music] the theory that he has pushed [music] the theory that he has pushed [music] since day one. His wife left on her own. since day one. His wife left on her own. since day one. His wife left on her own. The way I see it, there are two versions The way I see it, there are two versions The way I see it, there are two versions of Tracy that [music] cannot be of Tracy that [music] cannot be of Tracy that [music] cannot be reconciled. reconciled. reconciled. One murdered Carrie, faked amnesia, then One murdered Carrie, faked amnesia, then One murdered Carrie, faked amnesia, then raised their daughter on the crulest raised their daughter on the crulest raised their daughter on the crulest possible lie that her own mom abandoned possible lie that her own mom abandoned possible lie that her own mom abandoned her. The other is a man who is innocent her. The other is a man who is innocent her. The other is a man who is innocent [music] but has been unfairly living [music] but has been unfairly living [music] but has been unfairly living under a cloud of suspicion ever since under a cloud of suspicion ever since under a cloud of suspicion ever since she disappeared. she disappeared. she disappeared. But across that divide [music] But across that divide [music] But across that divide [music] is Megan, who's slowly reconnected with is Megan, who's slowly reconnected with is Megan, who's slowly reconnected with some of Carrie's siblings, [music] and some of Carrie's siblings, [music] and some of Carrie's siblings, [music] and they have gotten to show her a different they have gotten to show her a different they have gotten to show her a different side of Carrie. Not a mom who got tired side of Carrie. Not a mom who got tired side of Carrie. Not a mom who got tired of motherhood and left, but one who of motherhood and left, but one who of motherhood and left, but one who loved her daughter more than anything. I loved her daughter more than anything. I loved her daughter more than anything. I mean, talk about a rock and a hard place mean, talk about a rock and a hard place mean, talk about a rock and a hard place for her. I mean, either Tracy killed her for her. I mean, either Tracy killed her for her. I mean, either Tracy killed her mom and lied to her her entire life or mom and lied to her her entire life or mom and lied to her her entire life or Carrie really did choose to leave or not Carrie really did choose to leave or not Carrie really did choose to leave or not so fast, there is a third option that so fast, there is a third option that so fast, there is a third option that somebody [music] else could have somebody [music] else could have somebody [music] else could have murdered Carrie. And that might sound

murdered Carrie. And that might sound murdered Carrie. And that might sound like [music] out of the blue, like some like [music] out of the blue, like some like [music] out of the blue, like some kind of Hail Mary pass. Like, sure, kind of Hail Mary pass. Like, sure, kind of Hail Mary pass. Like, sure, anything's possible, anything's possible, anything's possible, >> but is it probable? Well, hold your >> but is it probable? Well, hold your >> but is it probable? Well, hold your horses because it turns out there was a horses because it turns out there was a horses because it turns out there was a man who lived just a few doors down from man who lived just a few doors down from man who lived just a few doors down from the Krueger who police believe may have the Krueger who police believe may have the Krueger who police believe may have been a serial killer. I want to back up because this thread I want to back up because this thread started decades [music] ago, back in started decades [music] ago, back in started decades [music] ago, back in January of 1990. We're talking weeks. a January of 1990. We're talking weeks. a January of 1990. We're talking weeks. a month tops after Carrie disappeared. month tops after Carrie disappeared. month tops after Carrie disappeared. >> That is when [music] police got a call >> That is when [music] police got a call >> That is when [music] police got a call from a state parole/probation from a state parole/probation from a state parole/probation agent. [music] agent. [music] agent. [music] >> She had been watching the news segment >> She had been watching the news segment >> She had been watching the news segment about Carrie when this familiar face about Carrie when this familiar face about Carrie when this familiar face just like flashed across the screen. It just like flashed across the screen. It just like flashed across the screen. It was Carrie's [music] close friend and was Carrie's [music] close friend and was Carrie's [music] close friend and neighbor, this woman named Audrey. And neighbor, this woman named Audrey. And neighbor, this woman named Audrey. And this agent knew Audrey because [music] this agent knew Audrey because [music] this agent knew Audrey because [music] she was shacked up with a violent felon she was shacked up with a violent felon she was shacked up with a violent felon on this person's case load. this on this person's case load. this on this person's case load. this 48-year-old man named Philip Andrew Fox.

48-year-old man named Philip Andrew Fox. 48-year-old man named Philip Andrew Fox. And Phil was no joke. His record And Phil was no joke. His record And Phil was no joke. His record stretched [music] back to the early stretched [music] back to the early stretched [music] back to the early 1960s in California when he shot and 1960s in California when he shot and 1960s in California when he shot and killed his own uncle during an argument. killed his own uncle during an argument. killed his own uncle during an argument. Then, according to the Torrance Herald, Then, according to the Torrance Herald, Then, according to the Torrance Herald, he abducted a teen at gunpoint and he he abducted a teen at gunpoint and he he abducted a teen at gunpoint and he got caught. But while out on bond, he got caught. But while out on bond, he got caught. But while out on bond, he tried to rob a gas station and shot the tried to rob a gas station and shot the tried to rob a gas station and shot the attendant who survived. Now, he plead attendant who survived. Now, he plead attendant who survived. Now, he plead guilty to manslaughter and attempted guilty to manslaughter and attempted guilty to manslaughter and attempted robbery and got out of prison in the robbery and got out of prison in the robbery and got out of prison in the early 1970s. early 1970s. early 1970s. But by the time Phil moved in down the But by the time Phil moved in down the But by the time Phil moved in down the block from Carrie, he was a suspect block from Carrie, he was a suspect block from Carrie, he was a suspect [music] in five other murders, including [music] in five other murders, including [music] in five other murders, including his wife's. She, his wife, [music] had his wife's. She, his wife, [music] had his wife's. She, his wife, [music] had been killed in what looked like a been killed in what looked like a been killed in what looked like a robbery in Dayton, Ohio in 1988. [music] robbery in Dayton, Ohio in 1988. [music] robbery in Dayton, Ohio in 1988. [music] But police strongly suspected Phil and But police strongly suspected Phil and But police strongly suspected Phil and his nephew because nothing about the his nephew because nothing about the his nephew because nothing about the robbery seemed random. Phil's wife robbery seemed random. Phil's wife robbery seemed random. Phil's wife managed this fast food restaurant and managed this fast food restaurant and managed this fast food restaurant and she had been robbed before while making she had been robbed before while making she had been robbed before while making a deposit. And she told friends that she a deposit. And she told friends that she a deposit. And she told friends that she thought Phil was behind it. So her thought Phil was behind it. So her thought Phil was behind it. So her company moved her to a new location, company moved her to a new location, company moved her to a new location, [music] but then months later she was [music] but then months later she was [music] but then months later she was dead, shot multiple times in the chest dead, shot multiple times in the chest dead, shot multiple times in the chest and face. And by the way, no one is and face. And by the way, no one is and face. And by the way, no one is pulling this stuff out of thin air. or pulling this stuff out of thin air. or pulling this stuff out of thin air. or Phil's nephew actually admitted to Phil's nephew actually admitted to Phil's nephew actually admitted to pulling the trigger on what he said was pulling the trigger on what he said was pulling the trigger on what he said was Phil's orders, but the confession got Phil's orders, but the confession got Phil's orders, but the confession got tossed [music] out on a technicality.

tossed [music] out on a technicality. tossed [music] out on a technicality. Now, the O'Briens didn't know most of Now, the O'Briens didn't know most of Now, the O'Briens didn't know most of this [music] back then. The world was a this [music] back then. The world was a this [music] back then. The world was a wild place without the internet and your wild place without the internet and your wild place without the internet and your ability to Google your neighbors. But ability to Google your neighbors. But ability to Google your neighbors. But Phil was a hard guy to miss. He was Phil was a hard guy to miss. He was Phil was a hard guy to miss. He was quiet, but he dressed loud. [music] quiet, but he dressed loud. [music] quiet, but he dressed loud. [music] He and Audrey spent time at the He and Audrey spent time at the He and Audrey spent time at the Krueger's. And Car's sister Molly still Krueger's. And Car's sister Molly still Krueger's. And Car's sister Molly still remembers his three-piece suits and the remembers his three-piece suits and the remembers his three-piece suits and the rings that he wore on every finger. But rings that he wore on every finger. But rings that he wore on every finger. But it wasn't Phil's personality [music] it wasn't Phil's personality [music] it wasn't Phil's personality [music] that made the parole officer wary, not that made the parole officer wary, not that made the parole officer wary, not even his criminal record. It was what even his criminal record. It was what even his criminal record. It was what [music] Phil did on December 5th, the [music] Phil did on December 5th, the [music] Phil did on December 5th, the last day anyone saw Carrie alive. last day anyone saw Carrie alive. last day anyone saw Carrie alive. >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> This officer said that when she called >> This officer said that when she called >> This officer said that when she called Phil, he sounded nervous and he said Phil, he sounded nervous and he said Phil, he sounded nervous and he said that he had to get to Virginia right that he had to get to Virginia right that he had to get to Virginia right away to take care of his mother. But away to take care of his mother. But away to take care of his mother. But then a couple of days later, that story then a couple of days later, that story then a couple of days later, that story [music] shifted. Now it was Ohio and [music] shifted. Now it was Ohio and [music] shifted. Now it was Ohio and Virginia for like some business deal. So Virginia for like some business deal. So Virginia for like some business deal. So Phil left that [music] night, came back Phil left that [music] night, came back Phil left that [music] night, came back within the week, and then spent months within the week, and then spent months within the week, and then spent months bouncing between Wisconsin [music] and bouncing between Wisconsin [music] and bouncing between Wisconsin [music] and other states. Car's brother Pat told us other states. Car's brother Pat told us other states. Car's brother Pat told us that Phil and Audrey [music] even showed that Phil and Audrey [music] even showed that Phil and Audrey [music] even showed up at his parents' house around New up at his parents' house around New up at his parents' house around New Year's while the family was deep [music] Year's while the family was deep [music] Year's while the family was deep [music] in the search for Carrie. Now, Phil in the search for Carrie. Now, Phil in the search for Carrie. Now, Phil eventually landed in West Virginia where eventually landed in West Virginia where eventually landed in West Virginia where he married an older woman with serious he married an older woman with serious he married an older woman with serious health problems, sealing the deal with health problems, sealing the deal with health problems, sealing the deal with his dead wife's wedding ring. [music]

his dead wife's wedding ring. [music] his dead wife's wedding ring. [music] And before long, her kids were convinced And before long, her kids were convinced And before long, her kids were convinced that Phil was after the family's money, that Phil was after the family's money, that Phil was after the family's money, allegedly poisoning their mother to get allegedly poisoning their mother to get allegedly poisoning their mother to get it. And they all noticed the same it. And they all noticed the same it. And they all noticed the same pattern like she would get violently pattern like she would get violently pattern like she would get violently ill, go into the hospital and recover ill, go into the hospital and recover ill, go into the hospital and recover and then crash again the moment she came and then crash again the moment she came and then crash again the moment she came [music] home to Phil. Now she eventually [music] home to Phil. Now she eventually [music] home to Phil. Now she eventually had a heart attack, survived though, and had a heart attack, survived though, and had a heart attack, survived though, and after Phil attacked one of her after Phil attacked one of her after Phil attacked one of her daughters, she divorced him. Then he daughters, she divorced him. Then he daughters, she divorced him. Then he took a job at an adult daycare. took a job at an adult daycare. took a job at an adult daycare. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Do they not run background checks? and a >> Do they not run background checks? and a >> Do they not run background checks? and a 63-year-old woman went missing from that 63-year-old woman went missing from that 63-year-old woman went missing from that same center. Phil wasn't on staff by same center. Phil wasn't on staff by same center. Phil wasn't on staff by then, but he had worked there while she then, but he had worked there while she then, but he had worked there while she was a resident, so I mean, they probably was a resident, so I mean, they probably was a resident, so I mean, they probably crossed paths, which puts him on crossed paths, which puts him on crossed paths, which puts him on police's radar for that, too. Now, in police's radar for that, too. Now, in police's radar for that, too. Now, in 2016, Phil got arrested in West Virginia 2016, Phil got arrested in West Virginia 2016, Phil got arrested in West Virginia on something totally unrelated, an arson on something totally unrelated, an arson on something totally unrelated, an arson [music] [music] [music] and insurance fraud scheme. And that is and insurance fraud scheme. And that is and insurance fraud scheme. And that is when Rine County sees their opening.

when Rine County sees their opening. when Rine County sees their opening. With Phil already in trouble, they make With Phil already in trouble, they make With Phil already in trouble, they make this trip down south to ask him about this trip down south to ask him about this trip down south to ask him about Carrie face [music] to face. But he's no Carrie face [music] to face. But he's no Carrie face [music] to face. But he's no help. He claims he barely remembers her help. He claims he barely remembers her help. He claims he barely remembers her or [music] Tracy, that it was all just or [music] Tracy, that it was all just or [music] Tracy, that it was all just so long ago. Still, he swears he never so long ago. Still, he swears he never so long ago. Still, he swears he never hurt Carrie and turns it around on hurt Carrie and turns it around on hurt Carrie and turns it around on police, accusing them of trying to just police, accusing them of trying to just police, accusing them of trying to just like pin another crime on him. But Rine like pin another crime on him. But Rine like pin another crime on him. But Rine [music] has one last move to play. An [music] has one last move to play. An [music] has one last move to play. An extraordinary offer for him. If Phil extraordinary offer for him. If Phil extraordinary offer for him. If Phil will show them [music] where Carrie's will show them [music] where Carrie's will show them [music] where Carrie's body is, they will make his arson and body is, they will make his arson and body is, they will make his arson and fraud charges go [music] away, and they fraud charges go [music] away, and they fraud charges go [music] away, and they won't charge him with anything related won't charge him with anything related won't charge him with anything related to Carrie's death. to Carrie's death. to Carrie's death. >> That's like two major get out of jail >> That's like two major get out of jail >> That's like two major get out of jail free cards. free cards. free cards. >> It's a sweetheart deal. Immunity in >> It's a sweetheart deal. Immunity in >> It's a sweetheart deal. Immunity in Car's case is no real gain, right? like Car's case is no real gain, right? like Car's case is no real gain, right? like he's not like charged with anything he's not like charged with anything he's not like charged with anything there, but like to make the fraud and there, but like to make the fraud and there, but like to make the fraud and arson stuff go away. Like that would be arson stuff go away. Like that would be arson stuff go away. Like that would be huge for him. But through his attorney, huge for him. But through his attorney, huge for him. But through his attorney, Phil turns that deal down. He says, Phil turns that deal down. He says, Phil turns that deal down. He says, "Look, I wish I could take this deal. I "Look, I wish I could take this deal. I "Look, I wish I could take this deal. I wish I could help. I would if I could, wish I could help. I would if I could, wish I could help. I would if I could, but [music] I didn't kill Carrie, so I but [music] I didn't kill Carrie, so I but [music] I didn't kill Carrie, so I don't know where she is." And that's don't know where she is." And that's don't know where she is." And that's when the Phil Fox door swings shut. Or when the Phil Fox door swings shut. Or when the Phil Fox door swings shut. Or at least on this case [music] anyway. If at least on this case [music] anyway. If at least on this case [music] anyway. If he was involved, I think he probably he was involved, I think he probably he was involved, I think he probably would have jumped at the chance to help would have jumped at the chance to help would have jumped at the chance to help [music] himself.

[music] himself. [music] himself. But if Phil does have any answers about But if Phil does have any answers about But if Phil does have any answers about [music] Carrie, those died with him in [music] Carrie, those died with him in [music] Carrie, those died with him in 2025, 2025, 2025, which [music] for law enforcement today which [music] for law enforcement today which [music] for law enforcement today puts them right back where they started, puts them right back where they started, puts them right back where they started, Tracy, [music] Tracy, [music] Tracy, [music] as investigator Sheret told us, every as investigator Sheret told us, every as investigator Sheret told us, every road leads back to him. Carrie's road leads back to him. Carrie's road leads back to him. Carrie's surviving siblings [music] feel the same surviving siblings [music] feel the same surviving siblings [music] feel the same way. They don't doubt that Phil was way. They don't doubt that Phil was way. They don't doubt that Phil was dangerous, but to them he was a red dangerous, but to them he was a red dangerous, but to them he was a red herring. And the real threat to Carrie herring. And the real threat to Carrie herring. And the real threat to Carrie was inside her house, [music] not a few was inside her house, [music] not a few was inside her house, [music] not a few doors down. And most everyone seems to doors down. And most everyone seems to doors down. And most everyone seems to agree with them. At least the people we agree with them. At least the people we agree with them. At least the people we spoke with. They just can't settle on a spoke with. They just can't settle on a spoke with. They just can't settle on a how or a why. how or a why. how or a why. Some wonder if [music] Car's flu-l like Some wonder if [music] Car's flu-l like Some wonder if [music] Car's flu-l like symptoms meant that she could have been symptoms meant that she could have been symptoms meant that she could have been slowly poisoned over time. Or maybe slowly poisoned over time. Or maybe slowly poisoned over time. Or maybe there was a fight that boiled over. Her there was a fight that boiled over. Her there was a fight that boiled over. Her sister Molly overheard them arguing that sister Molly overheard them arguing that sister Molly overheard them arguing that last weekend. It was [music] low last weekend. It was [music] low last weekend. It was [music] low intense. Maybe Carrie found out about intense. Maybe Carrie found out about intense. Maybe Carrie found out about the truck that was bought in her name or the truck that was bought in her name or the truck that was bought in her name or [music] [music] [music] his troubles at work. Maybe she his troubles at work. Maybe she his troubles at work. Maybe she confronted him. But that's all confronted him. But that's all confronted him. But that's all speculation. Her remains have never been speculation. Her remains have never been speculation. Her remains have never been found. So, for now, no one can prove found. So, for now, no one can prove found. So, for now, no one can prove what happened or who's responsible, what happened or who's responsible, what happened or who's responsible, but Carrie's case is still [music] but Carrie's case is still [music] but Carrie's case is still [music] active. Officially, she is a missing active. Officially, she is a missing active. Officially, she is a missing person, even though she's been legally person, even though she's been legally person, even though she's been legally declared dead. And since nearly every declared dead. And since nearly every declared dead. And since nearly every Tracy related theory centers on his

Tracy related theory centers on his Tracy related theory centers on his truck or the Krueger's house, that is truck or the Krueger's house, that is truck or the Krueger's house, that is where investigators have largely focused where investigators have largely focused where investigators have largely focused their [music] recent efforts. They have their [music] recent efforts. They have their [music] recent efforts. They have searched the family's former home and searched the family's former home and searched the family's former home and they've even tracked down Tracy's they've even tracked down Tracy's they've even tracked down Tracy's [music] old Ford pickup. They actually [music] old Ford pickup. They actually [music] old Ford pickup. They actually brought out the like goodest little boy brought out the like goodest little boy brought out the like goodest little boy with the best little sniffer to check with the best little sniffer to check with the best little sniffer to check out the truck. This is a cadaavver dog, out the truck. This is a cadaavver dog, out the truck. This is a cadaavver dog, mind you. His name [music] is Taser. mind you. His name [music] is Taser. mind you. His name [music] is Taser. >> You have a picture of him. >> You have a picture of him. >> You have a picture of him. >> I will do you one better. The sheriff's >> I will do you one better. The sheriff's >> I will do you one better. The sheriff's office actually gave us the footage of office actually gave us the footage of office actually gave us the footage of like when they brought him out. like when they brought him out. like when they brought him out. >> You can tell how excited Taser is to be >> You can tell how excited Taser is to be >> You can tell how excited Taser is to be on the job. He's like circling around on the job. He's like circling around on the job. He's like circling around the truck [music] and right at the front the truck [music] and right at the front the truck [music] and right at the front wheel well he alerts. He's letting his wheel well he alerts. He's letting his wheel well he alerts. He's letting his handler know like, "Hey, I can smell handler know like, "Hey, I can smell handler know like, "Hey, I can smell human remains here." Lieutenant Vans human remains here." Lieutenant Vans human remains here." Lieutenant Vans called this hit the strongest indication called this hit the strongest indication called this hit the strongest indication he's ever seen. And Taser does it twice he's ever seen. And Taser does it twice he's ever seen. And Taser does it twice more in the same spot. Meanwhile, more in the same spot. Meanwhile, more in the same spot. Meanwhile, Cadaavver Dogs also alerted inside the Cadaavver Dogs also alerted inside the Cadaavver Dogs also alerted inside the [music] house. once in the stairs [music] house. once in the stairs [music] house. once in the stairs leading up to the attic and then again leading up to the attic and then again leading up to the attic and then again down [music] in the basement.

down [music] in the basement. down [music] in the basement. And this past January, there was this And this past January, there was this And this past January, there was this tip from a guy who used to work for tip from a guy who used to work for tip from a guy who used to work for [music] a flooring company. And that tip [music] a flooring company. And that tip [music] a flooring company. And that tip sent them back to the same basement. sent them back to the same basement. sent them back to the same basement. So, get a load of this. Around the time So, get a load of this. Around the time So, get a load of this. Around the time Carrie vanished, [music] this contractor Carrie vanished, [music] this contractor Carrie vanished, [music] this contractor guy, he was sent to Burlington to lay guy, he was sent to Burlington to lay guy, he was sent to Burlington to lay carpet in a basement for Tracy Krueger. carpet in a basement for Tracy Krueger. carpet in a basement for Tracy Krueger. [music] [music] [music] When he got down to the basement, he When he got down to the basement, he When he got down to the basement, he says he saw something odd. There was says he saw something odd. There was says he saw something odd. There was this like fresh [music] patch of this like fresh [music] patch of this like fresh [music] patch of concrete about 3 ft by 6 ft. And Tracy concrete about 3 ft by 6 ft. And Tracy concrete about 3 ft by 6 ft. And Tracy told him that it was like drainage told him that it was like drainage told him that it was like drainage repair, but drain tiles run along the repair, but drain tiles run along the repair, but drain tiles run along the walls like this guy knows. And this was walls like this guy knows. And this was walls like this guy knows. And this was like smacked out in the middle of the like smacked out in the middle of the like smacked out in the middle of the room. Now, the carpet guy reported this room. Now, the carpet guy reported this room. Now, the carpet guy reported this to Burlington PD back in 1991, to Burlington PD back in 1991, to Burlington PD back in 1991, [music] but they brushed it off at the [music] but they brushed it off at the [music] but they brushed it off at the time because the company's records dated time because the company's records dated time because the company's records dated the job to November 1989, which is the job to November 1989, which is the job to November 1989, which is nearly a month before Carrie nearly a month before Carrie nearly a month before Carrie disappeared. [music] disappeared. [music] disappeared. [music] >> But here's the thing. Even decades >> But here's the thing. Even decades >> But here's the thing. Even decades later, the tipster recalls what happened later, the tipster recalls what happened later, the tipster recalls what happened [music] vividly. And he still remembers [music] vividly. And he still remembers [music] vividly. And he still remembers how antsy Tracy seemed [music] to just how antsy Tracy seemed [music] to just how antsy Tracy seemed [music] to just like get the floor covered. How Megan like get the floor covered. How Megan like get the floor covered. How Megan wandered downstairs and got into his wandered downstairs and got into his wandered downstairs and got into his tools. [music] And when he hollered for tools. [music] And when he hollered for tools. [music] And when he hollered for Tracy to come grab her before she hurt Tracy to come grab her before she hurt Tracy to come grab her before she hurt herself, Tracy apologized and explained herself, Tracy apologized and explained herself, Tracy apologized and explained that he was busy cleaning out his that he was busy cleaning out his that he was busy cleaning out his bedroom because he was having a new

bedroom because he was having a new bedroom because he was having a new [music] bed delivered. But Tracy didn't [music] bed delivered. But Tracy didn't [music] bed delivered. But Tracy didn't buy the water bed until after Carrie was buy the water bed until after Carrie was buy the water bed until after Carrie was already gone, already gone, already gone, >> which [music] makes investigators >> which [music] makes investigators >> which [music] makes investigators question those company records. Maybe question those company records. Maybe question those company records. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe the November date they're wrong. Maybe the November date they're wrong. Maybe the November date is when Tracy like first [music] called is when Tracy like first [music] called is when Tracy like first [music] called for an estimate or maybe it's when he for an estimate or maybe it's when he for an estimate or maybe it's when he booked the job. Who knows? booked the job. Who knows? booked the job. Who knows? >> All they know is they need to go back to >> All they know is they need to go back to >> All they know is they need to go back to [music] the basement, which they do. [music] the basement, which they do. [music] the basement, which they do. >> This time they bring a cadaabver dog and >> This time they bring a cadaabver dog and >> This time they bring a cadaabver dog and [music] ground penetrating radar. The [music] ground penetrating radar. The [music] ground penetrating radar. The dog alerts in multiple places, including dog alerts in multiple places, including dog alerts in multiple places, including two in the basement, and the radar gets two in the basement, and the radar gets two in the basement, and the radar gets a hit near one of them. Something is a hit near one of them. Something is a hit near one of them. Something is there, just a few feet beneath [music] there, just a few feet beneath [music] there, just a few feet beneath [music] the concrete. the concrete. the concrete. Watching it unfold, Lieutenant Van Sock Watching it unfold, Lieutenant Van Sock Watching it unfold, Lieutenant Van Sock and investigator Susan Connley are and investigator Susan Connley are and investigator Susan Connley are [music] on pins and needles. Years of [music] on pins and needles. Years of [music] on pins and needles. Years of bad leads, dead ends, searches that turn bad leads, dead ends, searches that turn bad leads, dead ends, searches that turn up nothing, but like here they are up nothing, but like here they are up nothing, but like here they are possibly standing right above Carrie. possibly standing right above Carrie. possibly standing right above Carrie. But when they pull up the carpet, the But when they pull up the carpet, the But when they pull up the carpet, the floor [music] is solid. There's no floor [music] is solid. There's no floor [music] is solid. There's no patch. There's no repair. There is patch. There's no repair. There is patch. There's no repair. There is nothing that looks like what the man nothing that looks like what the man nothing that looks like what the man described. So they bring the guy back to described. So they bring the guy back to described. So they bring the guy back to the house just to like see it for the house just to like see it for the house just to like see it for himself. [music] himself. [music] himself. [music] And he takes one look and he goes, And he takes one look and he goes, And he takes one look and he goes, "Well, like, well, there's your problem.

"Well, like, well, there's your problem. "Well, like, well, there's your problem. This isn't the basement that I worked This isn't the basement that I worked This isn't the basement that I worked in." in." in." >> Then then, sir, what basement did you >> Then then, sir, what basement did you >> Then then, sir, what basement did you work in? That is the mystery everyone's work in? That is the mystery everyone's work in? That is the mystery everyone's trying to solve right now. It's part of trying to solve right now. It's part of trying to solve right now. It's part of the reason that they were willing to the reason that they were willing to the reason that they were willing to share so much information with us so we share so much information with us so we share so much information with us so we could pass it on to crime junkies. They could pass it on to crime junkies. They could pass it on to crime junkies. They think that there might be a house out think that there might be a house out think that there might be a house out there that they never knew to look at. there that they never knew to look at. there that they never knew to look at. [music] Maybe a relative's place [music] Maybe a relative's place [music] Maybe a relative's place somewhere that police had no reason to somewhere that police had no reason to somewhere that police had no reason to search. If this guy's memory is solid, search. If this guy's memory is solid, search. If this guy's memory is solid, that slab of concrete is out there that slab of concrete is out there that slab of concrete is out there somewhere. We just don't know where. somewhere. We just don't know where. somewhere. We just don't know where. [music] [music] [music] >> Okay, but how does that align with the >> Okay, but how does that align with the >> Okay, but how does that align with the whole Tracy upstairs clearing out the whole Tracy upstairs clearing out the whole Tracy upstairs clearing out the bedroom thing? Like bedroom thing? Like bedroom thing? Like >> that only makes sense if it's their >> that only makes sense if it's their >> that only makes sense if it's their house. house. house. >> I keep spiraling on that. The bed says >> I keep spiraling on that. The bed says >> I keep spiraling on that. The bed says that he's in the Krueger house. The that he's in the Krueger house. The that he's in the Krueger house. The floor says he wasn't. Both can't be floor says he wasn't. Both can't be floor says he wasn't. Both can't be true, true, true, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So, Lieutenant Vans went and checked the >> So, Lieutenant Vans went and checked the >> So, Lieutenant Vans went and checked the basement at Tracy's [music] parents' basement at Tracy's [music] parents' basement at Tracy's [music] parents' house, grandparents places. house, grandparents places. house, grandparents places. >> Start with those.

>> Start with those. >> Start with those. >> No match. He even sends the contractor >> No match. He even sends the contractor >> No match. He even sends the contractor photos of another relative's house. photos of another relative's house. photos of another relative's house. Still [music] Still [music] Still [music] nothing. nothing. nothing. Wherever that basement is, they haven't Wherever that basement is, they haven't Wherever that basement is, they haven't found it. So, I had an idea. I was like, found it. So, I had an idea. I was like, found it. So, I had an idea. I was like, have him like sketch out the layout of have him like sketch out the layout of have him like sketch out the layout of the basement that he remembers. [music] the basement that he remembers. [music] the basement that he remembers. [music] >> And I actually have it to show all of >> And I actually have it to show all of >> And I actually have it to show all of the crime junkies. I need everyone to the crime junkies. I need everyone to the crime junkies. I need everyone to spread this [music] far and wide. It'll spread this [music] far and wide. It'll spread this [music] far and wide. It'll be on the blog post. I'm going to put it be on the blog post. I'm going to put it be on the blog post. I'm going to put it on social, too, so it'll be easy to on social, too, so it'll be easy to on social, too, so it'll be easy to share. Maybe this will jog someone's share. Maybe this will jog someone's share. Maybe this will jog someone's memory because it does not match the memory because it does not match the memory because it does not match the Krueger's basement. So, their basement Krueger's basement. So, their basement Krueger's basement. So, their basement is like a square that is like cordoned is like a square that is like cordoned is like a square that is like cordoned off into like four sections with areas off into like four sections with areas off into like four sections with areas of carpet, concrete, and vinyl [music] of carpet, concrete, and vinyl [music] of carpet, concrete, and vinyl [music] tile. And the stairs kind of come like tile. And the stairs kind of come like tile. And the stairs kind of come like right down in the middle of the room. right down in the middle of the room. right down in the middle of the room. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The basement that the contractor >> The basement that the contractor >> The basement that the contractor remembers is simpler. [music] remembers is simpler. [music] remembers is simpler. [music] Like there are just two areas. There is Like there are just two areas. There is Like there are just two areas. There is concrete on one side, carpet on the concrete on one side, carpet on the concrete on one side, carpet on the other. [music] The patch he keeps coming other. [music] The patch he keeps coming other. [music] The patch he keeps coming back to is inside that carpeted half.

back to is inside that carpeted half. back to is inside that carpeted half. And the stairs aren't in the middle at And the stairs aren't in the middle at And the stairs aren't in the middle at all. They're like in the very corner all. They're like in the very corner all. They're like in the very corner with a washer and dryer and sink right with a washer and dryer and sink right with a washer and dryer and sink right beside them. Like I said, I'm going to beside them. Like I said, I'm going to beside them. Like I said, I'm going to put these pictures up everywhere. Blog, put these pictures up everywhere. Blog, put these pictures up everywhere. Blog, social, I need you guys to share them. social, I need you guys to share them. social, I need you guys to share them. And I need everyone's help with one more And I need everyone's help with one more And I need everyone's help with one more [music] thing. So Tracy's whole story [music] thing. So Tracy's whole story [music] thing. So Tracy's whole story hangs on this idea that Carrie's hangs on this idea that Carrie's hangs on this idea that Carrie's supervisor or someone called her that supervisor or someone called her that supervisor or someone called her that Tuesday night. [music] And for years Tuesday night. [music] And for years Tuesday night. [music] And for years they always thought that those records they always thought that those records they always thought that those records wouldn't exist like the phone records of wouldn't exist like the phone records of wouldn't exist like the phone records of that because the phone company only that because the phone company only that because the phone company only recorded long-distance calls. Right. recorded long-distance calls. Right. recorded long-distance calls. Right. >> Right. [music] And the manager's call >> Right. [music] And the manager's call >> Right. [music] And the manager's call like would have been local. He was like like would have been local. He was like like would have been local. He was like right there. right there. right there. >> Except what they learned recently is >> Except what they learned recently is >> Except what they learned recently is that [music] back then the phone company that [music] back then the phone company that [music] back then the phone company drew its billing lines by municipal drew its billing lines by municipal drew its billing lines by municipal boundaries, not the [music] distance. So boundaries, not the [music] distance. So boundaries, not the [music] distance. So two neighbors could land in separate two neighbors could land in separate two neighbors could land in separate zones and zones and zones and >> based on like how it was zoned. >> based on like how it was zoned. >> based on like how it was zoned. >> Yeah. And a call between them could >> Yeah. And a call between them could >> Yeah. And a call between them could count as long distance, meaning it would count as long distance, meaning it would count as long distance, meaning it would show [music] up on the phone bill.

show [music] up on the phone bill. show [music] up on the phone bill. >> Problem is, >> Problem is, >> Problem is, >> I mean, they can't get the bills >> I mean, they can't get the bills >> I mean, they can't get the bills anymore. It's been so long. anymore. It's been so long. anymore. It's been so long. >> That's not the problem. No, they >> That's not the problem. No, they >> That's not the problem. No, they actually still have the bills. The actually still have the bills. The actually still have the bills. The problem is they can't decipher them. problem is they can't decipher them. problem is they can't decipher them. Those old bills basically read like Those old bills basically read like Those old bills basically read like hieroglyphics. So, they're looking for hieroglyphics. So, they're looking for hieroglyphics. So, they're looking for somebody out there who worked for somebody out there who worked for somebody out there who worked for Wisconsin Bell in the late8s [music] and Wisconsin Bell in the late8s [music] and Wisconsin Bell in the late8s [music] and know their way around these bills. So, know their way around these bills. So, know their way around these bills. So, if that's you or if you know somebody, if that's you or if you know somebody, if that's you or if you know somebody, this is your time to shine. You could this is your time to shine. You could this is your time to shine. You could help the Rine County Sheriff's Office help the Rine County Sheriff's Office help the Rine County Sheriff's Office [music] solve a case and they want to [music] solve a case and they want to [music] solve a case and they want to hear from you. Actually, they would hear from you. Actually, they would hear from you. Actually, they would appreciate any information you have appreciate any information you have appreciate any information you have about Carrie. And so, you can call them about Carrie. And so, you can call them about Carrie. And so, you can call them at 262-9308254. at 262-9308254. at 262-9308254. [music] And you can also call the Crimestoppers And you can also call the Crimestoppers of Rine County if you want to remain of Rine County if you want to remain of Rine County if you want to remain anonymous at 888-636-9330. Crime Junkie is an audiochuck Crime Junkie is an audiochuck production. I think Chuck would approve.