What Did Netflix Leave Out of the Mica Miller Story?

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. Flowers. Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> And I'm Brit. >> And I'm Brit. >> And today's episode's gonna be very >> And today's episode's gonna be very >> And today's episode's gonna be very different. This is a bonus episode different. This is a bonus episode different. This is a bonus episode because I just need to talk about what I because I just need to talk about what I because I just need to talk about what I just watched. um so badly that you just watched. um so badly that you just watched. um so badly that you texted me, Alyssa, my sister, texted me, Alyssa, my sister, texted me, Alyssa, my sister, >> and Kate >> and Kate >> and Kate >> who works here, >> who works here, >> who works here, >> who works [laughter] here, uh at like >> who works [laughter] here, uh at like >> who works [laughter] here, uh at like 9:00 at night, after 9:00, and said 9:00 at night, after 9:00, and said 9:00 at night, after 9:00, and said [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] 92, [laughter] 92, [laughter] 92, [laughter] >> my evangelical gals, all caps, >> my evangelical gals, all caps, >> my evangelical gals, all caps, did the Lord magically sync her phone? did the Lord magically sync her phone? did the Lord magically sync her phone? OMG, I'll believe in God again if he OMG, I'll believe in God again if he OMG, I'll believe in God again if he redirects all his energy out to out redirects all his energy out to out redirects all his energy out to out dirty pastors. And Alyssa goes, what are dirty pastors. And Alyssa goes, what are dirty pastors. And Alyssa goes, what are you talking about? [laughter] you talking about? [laughter] you talking about? [laughter] And then you disregard that question and And then you disregard that question and And then you disregard that question and go straight into JP arrived at the go straight into JP arrived at the go straight into JP arrived at the scene. The pastor's wife on Netflix scene. The pastor's wife on Netflix scene. The pastor's wife on Netflix [laughter] and she goes, "Stop. I [laughter] and she goes, "Stop. I [laughter] and she goes, "Stop. I haven't watched it yet." I also hadn't haven't watched it yet." I also hadn't haven't watched it yet." I also hadn't watched it, but I was like, "Oh my god, watched it, but I was like, "Oh my god, watched it, but I was like, "Oh my god, I know this case." This is the Micah I know this case." This is the Micah I know this case." This is the Micah Miller case. Miller case. Miller case. >> I The pastor's wife just dropped on >> I The pastor's wife just dropped on >> I The pastor's wife just dropped on Netflix. I stayed up till like Netflix. I stayed up till like Netflix. I stayed up till like >> It's like The Death of the Pastor's wife >> It's like The Death of the Pastor's wife >> It's like The Death of the Pastor's wife is like the actual title or something. is like the actual title or something. is like the actual title or something. So, this is the story of Micah Miller, So, this is the story of Micah Miller, So, this is the story of Micah Miller, who is alleged to have taken her own who is alleged to have taken her own who is alleged to have taken her own life in April of 2024. Like, I stayed life in April of 2024. Like, I stayed life in April of 2024. Like, I stayed up, binged it till like midnight. It was up, binged it till like midnight. It was up, binged it till like midnight. It was a school night.

a school night. a school night. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Everyone else was apparently like going >> Everyone else was apparently like going >> Everyone else was apparently like going to going to bed, [laughter] to going to bed, [laughter] to going to bed, [laughter] >> but I could not look away. This case is >> but I could not look away. This case is >> but I could not look away. This case is unbelievable. And I know it's what unbelievable. And I know it's what unbelievable. And I know it's what everyone is talking about. So many of everyone is talking about. So many of everyone is talking about. So many of the crime junkies are talking about it. the crime junkies are talking about it. the crime junkies are talking about it. I want to just have a discussion about I want to just have a discussion about I want to just have a discussion about everything that was in this documentary everything that was in this documentary everything that was in this documentary and also I couldn't help myself. I in 24 and also I couldn't help myself. I in 24 and also I couldn't help myself. I in 24 hours have just gone on a rampage on the hours have just gone on a rampage on the hours have just gone on a rampage on the internet and found everything that I internet and found everything that I internet and found everything that I think the documentary also left out. think the documentary also left out. think the documentary also left out. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, I just want to I want to talk to my >> So, I just want to I want to talk to my >> So, I just want to I want to talk to my best friend about this doc. Well, best friend about this doc. Well, best friend about this doc. Well, especially because like this case feels especially because like this case feels especially because like this case feels very close to home because you and I very close to home because you and I very close to home because you and I both grew up together in an evangelical both grew up together in an evangelical both grew up together in an evangelical non-denominational church. non-denominational church. non-denominational church. >> It was there was a lot here that was >> It was there was a lot here that was >> It was there was a lot here that was like like like >> familiar and terrifying I think is the >> familiar and terrifying I think is the >> familiar and terrifying I think is the best way to describe it. best way to describe it. best way to describe it. >> Trigger warning to my evangelical gals >> Trigger warning to my evangelical gals >> Trigger warning to my evangelical gals and also spoiler alert to anyone who and also spoiler alert to anyone who and also spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't watched this. So you can either hasn't watched this. So you can either hasn't watched this. So you can either trust me even if you stay here you're trust me even if you stay here you're trust me even if you stay here you're going to want to go see this for going to want to go see this for going to want to go see this for yourself or you can go watch it and come yourself or you can go watch it and come yourself or you can go watch it and come back. But back. But back. But >> let's just enough. I just want to dive >> let's just enough. I just want to dive >> let's just enough. I just want to dive in.

in. in. >> Okay, [music] >> so I have to be totally honest. I have >> so I have to be totally honest. I have been like I know Micah Miller's name. I been like I know Micah Miller's name. I been like I know Micah Miller's name. I have been kind of following it. One of have been kind of following it. One of have been kind of following it. One of our reporters had even like reached out our reporters had even like reached out our reporters had even like reached out to her family and was like we were going to her family and was like we were going to her family and was like we were going to cover it, but they couldn't really to cover it, but they couldn't really to cover it, but they couldn't really talk, which is when we kind of put talk, which is when we kind of put talk, which is when we kind of put everything on pause. So I was never like everything on pause. So I was never like everything on pause. So I was never like deep deep deep into this case. I knew deep deep deep into this case. I knew deep deep deep into this case. I knew >> I knew the allegations. I knew she had >> I knew the allegations. I knew she had >> I knew the allegations. I knew she had bought a gun. I knew bought a gun. I knew bought a gun. I knew >> you had seen like the announcement from >> you had seen like the announcement from >> you had seen like the announcement from the platform of like him, right? the platform of like him, right? the platform of like him, right? >> I never even fully watched that. Like I >> I never even fully watched that. Like I >> I never even fully watched that. Like I saw all the news reports that came from saw all the news reports that came from saw all the news reports that came from that where where he basically said, you that where where he basically said, you that where where he basically said, you know, my wife, she was mentally ill. She know, my wife, she was mentally ill. She know, my wife, she was mentally ill. She what selfinduced like and and I knew what selfinduced like and and I knew what selfinduced like and and I knew that she again, like I said, I knew she that she again, like I said, I knew she that she again, like I said, I knew she had gone to buy a gun. I knew she had had gone to buy a gun. I knew she had had gone to buy a gun. I knew she had called 911 so they would know her called 911 so they would know her called 911 so they would know her location. And but I also knew that there location. And but I also knew that there location. And but I also knew that there were a lot of questions. were a lot of questions. were a lot of questions. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I I wasn't fully aware of what all >> But I I wasn't fully aware of what all >> But I I wasn't fully aware of what all of those were. of those were. of those were. >> So when I jumped into this doc, I >> So when I jumped into this doc, I >> So when I jumped into this doc, I truthfully truthfully truthfully >> kind of got in cold. >> kind of got in cold. >> kind of got in cold. >> Yes. And didn't even really know I know >> Yes. And didn't even really know I know >> Yes. And didn't even really know I know Micah Miller's name. I I didn't even Micah Miller's name. I I didn't even Micah Miller's name. I I didn't even really register like who is the pastor really register like who is the pastor really register like who is the pastor husband. husband. husband. >> So yes. >> So yes. >> So yes. >> So So when >> So So when >> So So when >> when she gets married >> when she gets married >> when she gets married >> when I Yes. So, so when I go in and I >> when I Yes. So, so when I go in and I >> when I Yes. So, so when I go in and I like as soon as she starts at this like as soon as she starts at this like as soon as she starts at this church and I see John Paul, I, you know, church and I see John Paul, I, you know, church and I see John Paul, I, you know, I'm like giving myself my own I'm like giving myself my own I'm like giving myself my own commentary. And as soon as they like commentary. And as soon as they like commentary. And as soon as they like brought him on screen and I was like, brought him on screen and I was like, brought him on screen and I was like, "Yep, creep." "Yep, creep." "Yep, creep." >> And then she gets married to someone >> And then she gets married to someone >> And then she gets married to someone else and I was like, I do. I else and I was like, I do. I else and I was like, I do. I >> have it all wrong. >> have it all wrong. >> have it all wrong. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is my radar broken? [laughter] >> Is my radar broken? [laughter] >> Is my radar broken? [laughter] >> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. >> It's not. And then and then I marked it. >> It's not. And then and then I marked it. >> It's not. And then and then I marked it. It was like uh 12 minutes and 30 seconds It was like uh 12 minutes and 30 seconds It was like uh 12 minutes and 30 seconds in. Nope. I am correct [laughter] in. Nope. I am correct [laughter] in. Nope. I am correct [laughter] >> because Micah gets married really young >> because Micah gets married really young >> because Micah gets married really young to a guy she meets at church. They like to a guy she meets at church. They like to a guy she meets at church. They like are working the church together. They are working the church together. They are working the church together. They get married really young get married really young get married really young >> and she is working at the church and >> and she is working at the church and >> and she is working at the church and working really closely with John Paul JP working really closely with John Paul JP working really closely with John Paul JP who is the pastor at the church who has who is the pastor at the church who has who is the pastor at the church who has been her pastor since she was 13 or 14 I been her pastor since she was 13 or 14 I been her pastor since she was 13 or 14 I think.

think. think. >> Young. Very young. Yeah. And he put her >> Young. Very young. Yeah. And he put her >> Young. Very young. Yeah. And he put her in like very very close to him. Like she in like very very close to him. Like she in like very very close to him. Like she which I'll get to later when I talk which I'll get to later when I talk which I'll get to later when I talk about like kind of some of the stuff I about like kind of some of the stuff I about like kind of some of the stuff I found. seems to be a little bit of a found. seems to be a little bit of a found. seems to be a little bit of a pattern. Like, so not only were they pattern. Like, so not only were they pattern. Like, so not only were they close as a couple, like he was married close as a couple, like he was married close as a couple, like he was married to another woman at the time, she's to another woman at the time, she's to another woman at the time, she's married to her husband, they like go out married to her husband, they like go out married to her husband, they like go out all the time, even though there's like a all the time, even though there's like a all the time, even though there's like a big age gap, but like this is the big age gap, but like this is the big age gap, but like this is the dynamic that when you and I grew up in a dynamic that when you and I grew up in a dynamic that when you and I grew up in a church, like isn't that weird? I think church, like isn't that weird? I think church, like isn't that weird? I think it would be strange now thinking about it would be strange now thinking about it would be strange now thinking about it as like an 18-year-old and my it as like an 18-year-old and my it as like an 18-year-old and my boyfriend husband to be like hanging out boyfriend husband to be like hanging out boyfriend husband to be like hanging out with a couple that's 15 years older, but with a couple that's 15 years older, but with a couple that's 15 years older, but not in not in not in >> youth group for some reason. >> youth group for some reason. >> youth group for some reason. >> No. And like I when I was watching this >> No. And like I when I was watching this >> No. And like I when I was watching this I was like I also I also like to be I was like I also I also like to be I was like I also I also like to be clear was in the church for much longer clear was in the church for much longer clear was in the church for much longer than you were and was much more heavily than you were and was much more heavily than you were and was much more heavily involved for much longer than involved for much longer than involved for much longer than >> two pictures of you like on a stage hand >> two pictures of you like on a stage hand >> two pictures of you like on a stage hand in the air in the air in the air >> when she when it's like when in the >> when she when it's like when in the >> when she when it's like when in the documentary they talk about her being in documentary they talk about her being in documentary they talk about her being in like this leadership role at the church like this leadership role at the church like this leadership role at the church when she was 16. I was put in the same when she was 16. I was put in the same when she was 16. I was put in the same leadership role at my church when I was leadership role at my church when I was leadership role at my church when I was 18. So, like I'm It seems incredible and 18. So, like I'm It seems incredible and 18. So, like I'm It seems incredible and unlikely when you're watching it in the unlikely when you're watching it in the unlikely when you're watching it in the dock, but like I was like, "Oh, I know dock, but like I was like, "Oh, I know dock, but like I was like, "Oh, I know exactly how that happens. I know exactly exactly how that happens. I know exactly exactly how that happens. I know exactly like like like >> also like what it feels like to be that >> also like what it feels like to be that >> also like what it feels like to be that young and to get that much young and to get that much young and to get that much responsibility in this place that you responsibility in this place that you responsibility in this place that you love and care about so much and how much love and care about so much and how much love and care about so much and how much of like of like of like >> an honor and a responsibility that feels >> an honor and a responsibility that feels >> an honor and a responsibility that feels like like like >> to do any Yeah. like to do anything to >> to do any Yeah. like to do anything to >> to do any Yeah. like to do anything to stay in that role and to like something stay in that role and to like something stay in that role and to like something that came through in the doc that I'll

that came through in the doc that I'll that came through in the doc that I'll probably talk about a million times is probably talk about a million times is probably talk about a million times is how much she cared for people. Like how much she cared for people. Like how much she cared for people. Like Micah truly loved people honestly more Micah truly loved people honestly more Micah truly loved people honestly more than I do [laughter] than I do [laughter] than I do [laughter] or ever have. And like she wanted to or ever have. And like she wanted to or ever have. And like she wanted to keep that role so she could keep helping keep that role so she could keep helping keep that role so she could keep helping people. Like that truly was her heart people. Like that truly was her heart people. Like that truly was her heart through it all. And knowing like through it all. And knowing like through it all. And knowing like >> not even knowing but like assuming how >> not even knowing but like assuming how >> not even knowing but like assuming how much she had to like give up of herself much she had to like give up of herself much she had to like give up of herself to be in that role and to keep that is to be in that role and to keep that is to be in that role and to keep that is like I'm going to start I'm going to cry like I'm going to start I'm going to cry like I'm going to start I'm going to cry in this episode. And I'm just going to in this episode. And I'm just going to in this episode. And I'm just going to tell you [laughter] guys that. tell you [laughter] guys that. tell you [laughter] guys that. >> Oh man. >> Oh man. >> Oh man. >> But like it seem like it seems wild to >> But like it seem like it seems wild to >> But like it seem like it seems wild to watch it, but like as someone who lived watch it, but like as someone who lived watch it, but like as someone who lived it, it's not it, it's not it, it's not unbelievable to me. One of the questions unbelievable to me. One of the questions unbelievable to me. One of the questions uh I I don't know who asked me this, but uh I I don't know who asked me this, but uh I I don't know who asked me this, but they were like, I don't understand how they were like, I don't understand how they were like, I don't understand how there's so much video. And I was like there's so much video. And I was like there's so much video. And I was like they're like, is that normal? And I was they're like, is that normal? And I was they're like, is that normal? And I was like, oh yeah, for some reason like even like, oh yeah, for some reason like even like, oh yeah, for some reason like even in the church we grew up in like they in the church we grew up in like they in the church we grew up in like they document everything. document everything. document everything. >> Yeah. And like I think the like >> Yeah. And like I think the like >> Yeah. And like I think the like logistically the reason is like so you logistically the reason is like so you logistically the reason is like so you can either like reference back to it can either like reference back to it can either like reference back to it when you do Christmas next year or to when you do Christmas next year or to when you do Christmas next year or to like be able to distribute it to help like be able to distribute it to help like be able to distribute it to help other people, right? Like you record other people, right? Like you record other people, right? Like you record sermons so that you can share sermons.

sermons so that you can share sermons. sermons so that you can share sermons. But like But like But like >> it is something that like there is a lot >> it is something that like there is a lot >> it is something that like there is a lot of footage of churches especially of footage of churches especially of footage of churches especially nowadays. nowadays. nowadays. >> Treasure trove having so much video >> Treasure trove having so much video >> Treasure trove having so much video footage. Yeah. footage. Yeah. footage. Yeah. >> I think a what I Okay, first of all the >> I think a what I Okay, first of all the >> I think a what I Okay, first of all the first thing that I saw that I was like first thing that I saw that I was like first thing that I saw that I was like this one might be hard for me. The this one might be hard for me. The this one might be hard for me. The banners. Did you see the banners in the banners. Did you see the banners in the banners. Did you see the banners in the back of the church? And I was like, we back of the church? And I was like, we back of the church? And I was like, we had that our God is king one. Yes. I had that our God is king one. Yes. I had that our God is king one. Yes. I [laughter] was like, do all the banners [laughter] was like, do all the banners [laughter] was like, do all the banners come from the same place? come from the same place? come from the same place? >> If you if you like watch the whole >> If you if you like watch the whole >> If you if you like watch the whole documentary and like I've obviously documentary and like I've obviously documentary and like I've obviously watched it a couple times now, but like watched it a couple times now, but like watched it a couple times now, but like the banners move in the buildings to the banners move in the buildings to the banners move in the buildings to different places and like towards the different places and like towards the different places and like towards the end when they're in like a like the last end when they're in like a like the last end when they're in like a like the last location that they show the church location that they show the church location that they show the church meeting in. Like it's a much smaller meeting in. Like it's a much smaller meeting in. Like it's a much smaller room, but the banners are still there. room, but the banners are still there. room, but the banners are still there. And I'm like, we could just have not And I'm like, we could just have not And I'm like, we could just have not packed these. I don't know. That's just packed these. I don't know. That's just packed these. I don't know. That's just me. [laughter] the banners, the the me. [laughter] the banners, the the me. [laughter] the banners, the the worship songs. It was like a soundtrack worship songs. It was like a soundtrack worship songs. It was like a soundtrack to our youth. Like I to our youth. Like I to our youth. Like I >> There's a lot of songs that I recognize. >> There's a lot of songs that I recognize. >> There's a lot of songs that I recognize. For sure. For sure. For sure. >> Yeah, for sure. And the sermons. I think >> Yeah, for sure. And the sermons. I think >> Yeah, for sure. And the sermons. I think perhaps if someone comes into this perhaps if someone comes into this perhaps if someone comes into this documentary who did not grow up the way documentary who did not grow up the way documentary who did not grow up the way that we did, that we did, that we did, >> these sermons seem Oh, yeah. And this, >> these sermons seem Oh, yeah. And this, >> these sermons seem Oh, yeah. And this, by the way, this episode will probably by the way, this episode will probably by the way, this episode will probably be explicit, so [laughter] weird. Uh, I be explicit, so [laughter] weird. Uh, I be explicit, so [laughter] weird. Uh, I don't think we're going to have time to don't think we're going to have time to don't think we're going to have time to bleed, but this they will seem bat bleed, but this they will seem bat bleed, but this they will seem bat crazy.

crazy. crazy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because they are. >> Because they are. >> Because they are. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> However, I was like pretty sure I heard >> However, I was like pretty sure I heard >> However, I was like pretty sure I heard that growing up. that growing up. that growing up. >> Yes. And I will say yes. And they >> Yes. And I will say yes. And they >> Yes. And I will say yes. And they mentioned in the documentary they have mentioned in the documentary they have mentioned in the documentary they have like over 500 downloaded sermons of like over 500 downloaded sermons of like over 500 downloaded sermons of footage of this guy talking. footage of this guy talking. footage of this guy talking. >> And we saw I think I counted like four >> And we saw I think I counted like four >> And we saw I think I counted like four or five maybe six total actual sermons, or five maybe six total actual sermons, or five maybe six total actual sermons, not funerals because he we do see not funerals because he we do see not funerals because he we do see footage of funerals that he does. Um, footage of funerals that he does. Um, footage of funerals that he does. Um, and so like I think the important thing and so like I think the important thing and so like I think the important thing to remember is like yes, these are all to remember is like yes, these are all to remember is like yes, these are all bat, but these are also selections that bat, but these are also selections that bat, but these are also selections that are especially bad. There's a thousand% are especially bad. There's a thousand% are especially bad. There's a thousand% some crazy stuff in the other 500, but some crazy stuff in the other 500, but some crazy stuff in the other 500, but like if you sandwich this sort of like like if you sandwich this sort of like like if you sandwich this sort of like interesting content in between things interesting content in between things interesting content in between things that seem very benign, it's really easy that seem very benign, it's really easy that seem very benign, it's really easy to not realize what's happening. Does to not realize what's happening. Does to not realize what's happening. Does that make sense? that make sense? that make sense? >> Yeah. Like I get what you're saying. At >> Yeah. Like I get what you're saying. At >> Yeah. Like I get what you're saying. At first I thought you were saying like, first I thought you were saying like, first I thought you were saying like, "Oh, it's probably I was like, wait, "Oh, it's probably I was like, wait, "Oh, it's probably I was like, wait, girl." No. Like like this is one sermon. girl." No. Like like this is one sermon. girl." No. Like like this is one sermon. >> It's it's 2 minutes >> It's it's 2 minutes >> It's it's 2 minutes >> in it's 2 minutes of >> in it's 2 minutes of >> in it's 2 minutes of >> a 40-minute sermon 500. Yeah. Exactly.

>> a 40-minute sermon 500. Yeah. Exactly. >> a 40-minute sermon 500. Yeah. Exactly. And what I find though is the the the And what I find though is the the the And what I find though is the the the ones that they show it's what is so ones that they show it's what is so ones that they show it's what is so clear as you watch the documentary is clear as you watch the documentary is clear as you watch the documentary is like he is preaching to who? To her like he is preaching to who? To her like he is preaching to who? To her >> to her. >> to her. >> to her. >> Yeah. It's like it's less about what the >> Yeah. It's like it's less about what the >> Yeah. It's like it's less about what the congregation takes away and I'm sure he congregation takes away and I'm sure he congregation takes away and I'm sure he wants everyone to think the way that he wants everyone to think the way that he wants everyone to think the way that he thinks. Well, someone in the documentary thinks. Well, someone in the documentary thinks. Well, someone in the documentary even says like he said before that like even says like he said before that like even says like he said before that like he only teaches on things that he he only teaches on things that he he only teaches on things that he himself is experiencing or is struggling himself is experiencing or is struggling himself is experiencing or is struggling with. with. with. >> Yeah. And he is trying to so much of >> Yeah. And he is trying to so much of >> Yeah. And he is trying to so much of what you see Micah struggling with as what you see Micah struggling with as what you see Micah struggling with as they like show her journals and stuff is they like show her journals and stuff is they like show her journals and stuff is this idea of like he is anointed by God. this idea of like he is anointed by God. this idea of like he is anointed by God. I want to follow God I want to follow God I want to follow God >> and he anointed by God on the stage in >> and he anointed by God on the stage in >> and he anointed by God on the stage in front of everyone. So it's not like he's front of everyone. So it's not like he's front of everyone. So it's not like he's just telling me this. He's telling just telling me this. He's telling just telling me this. He's telling everyone this. everyone this. everyone this. >> So it's not just it's like it's good. >> So it's not just it's like it's good. >> So it's not just it's like it's good. It's It's something that can help It's It's something that can help It's It's something that can help everybody, including me. Yeah. everybody, including me. Yeah. everybody, including me. Yeah. >> Is how it's being presented to her. >> Is how it's being presented to her. >> Is how it's being presented to her. >> So, it starts off like we get we get >> So, it starts off like we get we get >> So, it starts off like we get we get like little ones first where he's like, like little ones first where he's like, like little ones first where he's like, "Oh, you can still be in love with your "Oh, you can still be in love with your "Oh, you can still be in love with your spouse and still battle lust." And I was spouse and still battle lust." And I was spouse and still battle lust." And I was like, "Okay, you're saying that because like, "Okay, you're saying that because like, "Okay, you're saying that because clearly clearly clearly >> that's cuz you are >> that's cuz you are >> that's cuz you are >> are battling, right?" But then it gets >> are battling, right?" But then it gets >> are battling, right?" But then it gets like like it goes on from there and like like like it goes on from there and like like like it goes on from there and like I don't know if you want to go like I don't know if you want to go like I don't know if you want to go like episode by episode. So, I won't get too episode by episode. So, I won't get too episode by episode. So, I won't get too far away, but I have like I have like far away, but I have like I have like far away, but I have like I have like selected the couple of sermons where I selected the couple of sermons where I selected the couple of sermons where I am like am like am like >> he said this out loud >> he said this out loud >> he said this out loud >> and nobody stood up and walked out.

>> and nobody stood up and walked out. >> and nobody stood up and walked out. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Now, in episode one, so [clears throat] >> Now, in episode one, so [clears throat] >> Now, in episode one, so [clears throat] we get a little bit about like not a ton we get a little bit about like not a ton we get a little bit about like not a ton of background necessarily on the both of of background necessarily on the both of of background necessarily on the both of them. I think it starts with a little them. I think it starts with a little them. I think it starts with a little bit or whatever, but bit or whatever, but bit or whatever, but >> what we find out is that like once this >> what we find out is that like once this >> what we find out is that like once this affair happens, so him and him and Micah affair happens, so him and him and Micah affair happens, so him and him and Micah have this affair and JP and Mike have have this affair and JP and Mike have have this affair and JP and Mike have this affair. They're both married at the this affair. They're both married at the this affair. They're both married at the time. It comes out and Micah and her time. It comes out and Micah and her time. It comes out and Micah and her husband get divorced and husband get divorced and husband get divorced and JP's wife Ally is having none of it. JP's wife Ally is having none of it. JP's wife Ally is having none of it. Like she's out. Yeah. Like she's out. Yeah. Like she's out. Yeah. >> Amazing on her >> Amazing on her >> Amazing on her >> and he like cannot handle being left and >> and he like cannot handle being left and >> and he like cannot handle being left and we get this moment in the dock and I we get this moment in the dock and I we get this moment in the dock and I think this is the first one where I'm think this is the first one where I'm think this is the first one where I'm like what? Hang on. I actually have to like what? Hang on. I actually have to like what? Hang on. I actually have to play you. So the same way I frantically play you. So the same way I frantically play you. So the same way I frantically was texting you. I was desperately was texting you. I was desperately was texting you. I was desperately looking for any of anyone in my life who looking for any of anyone in my life who looking for any of anyone in my life who was watching this documentary and I was was watching this documentary and I was was watching this documentary and I was texting like our reporter Mads uh texting like our reporter Mads uh texting like our reporter Mads uh Brianna and Brianna and I at some point Brianna and Brianna and I at some point Brianna and Brianna and I at some point >> Brianna in a completely different time >> Brianna in a completely different time >> Brianna in a completely different time zone so she was still awake watching zone so she was still awake watching zone so she was still awake watching >> and so I was like she started sending me >> and so I was like she started sending me >> and so I was like she started sending me voice notes and I just need to play it voice notes and I just need to play it voice notes and I just need to play it for you because she the first voice note for you because she the first voice note for you because she the first voice note I got was about the same moment where I got was about the same moment where I got was about the same moment where I'm like what am I watching? [laughter] I'm like what am I watching? [laughter] I'm like what am I watching? [laughter] I'm almost done with episode one, but I'm almost done with episode one, but I'm almost done with episode one, but like what was that cell phone video of like what was that cell phone video of like what was that cell phone video of John Paul like on the ground outside of John Paul like on the ground outside of John Paul like on the ground outside of the car like the car like the car like crying? I I What was that? That was so crying? I I What was that? That was so crying? I I What was that? That was so weird.

weird. weird. I I I >> It's also like on like a production >> It's also like on like a production >> It's also like on like a production level weird. Like who's shooting it? level weird. Like who's shooting it? level weird. Like who's shooting it? When is this? What What's happening? Who When is this? What What's happening? Who When is this? What What's happening? Who is he talking to? Why is he on the is he talking to? Why is he on the is he talking to? Why is he on the ground? ground? ground? >> Who's like he's doing I think they were >> Who's like he's doing I think they were >> Who's like he's doing I think they were saying Mark's coming. Who's Mark? I I saying Mark's coming. Who's Mark? I I saying Mark's coming. Who's Mark? I I >> Well, we know we find out who Mark is. >> Well, we know we find out who Mark is. >> Well, we know we find out who Mark is. That's like the best man. That's like the best man. That's like the best man. >> Oh, right. Don't get me started on Mark. >> Oh, right. Don't get me started on Mark. >> Oh, right. Don't get me started on Mark. >> We know Mark, but like the woman across >> We know Mark, but like the woman across >> We know Mark, but like the woman across the street has Mark's number. Why does the street has Mark's number. Why does the street has Mark's number. Why does she have Mark's number? Cuz he doesn't she have Mark's number? Cuz he doesn't she have Mark's number? Cuz he doesn't know. know. know. >> Why are we videotaping? >> Why are we videotaping? >> Why are we videotaping? >> There's ants in his eyes. There was a >> There's ants in his eyes. There was a >> There's ants in his eyes. There was a lot going on in this video. lot going on in this video. lot going on in this video. [clears throat] And like uh they never [clears throat] And like uh they never [clears throat] And like uh they never explain it. explain it. explain it. >> I know. I told her I was like, I needed >> I know. I told her I was like, I needed >> I know. I told her I was like, I needed a three-part documentary on on that a three-part documentary on on that a three-part documentary on on that clip. clip. clip. >> On this clip. We don't like go into it. >> On this clip. We don't like go into it. >> On this clip. We don't like go into it. Did was he like intoxicated? Did he fall Did was he like intoxicated? Did he fall Did was he like intoxicated? Did he fall out of his car? Like but I think what I out of his car? Like but I think what I out of his car? Like but I think what I think it shows that we will get later think it shows that we will get later think it shows that we will get later and later is like his extreme and later is like his extreme and later is like his extreme way that he will like be the victim. way that he will like be the victim. way that he will like be the victim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like this is about him. Like he >> Right. Like this is about him. Like he >> Right. Like this is about him. Like he had the affair, but he'll do anything had the affair, but he'll do anything had the affair, but he'll do anything >> to get his family back. Spoiler alert, >> to get his family back. Spoiler alert, >> to get his family back. Spoiler alert, he does not get his family back. Now, he does not get his family back. Now, he does not get his family back. Now, one of the things that is said in the one of the things that is said in the one of the things that is said in the documentary is that apparently JP was documentary is that apparently JP was documentary is that apparently JP was like now that they're getting divorced like now that they're getting divorced like now that they're getting divorced there, you know, a lot of people like there, you know, a lot of people like there, you know, a lot of people like loved his wife, they're hemorrhaging loved his wife, they're hemorrhaging loved his wife, they're hemorrhaging members. And so what you see happen is members. And so what you see happen is members. And so what you see happen is him and Micah end up getting together. I him and Micah end up getting together. I him and Micah end up getting together. I don't know the ins and outs of their don't know the ins and outs of their don't know the ins and outs of their relationship, but you can what you can relationship, but you can what you can relationship, but you can what you can see happening. And so I like I don't see happening. And so I like I don't see happening. And so I like I don't know who said what or whose idea, know who said what or whose idea, know who said what or whose idea, whatever, but like I think at one point whatever, but like I think at one point whatever, but like I think at one point she's like, I want something good to she's like, I want something good to she's like, I want something good to come of this. And I wonder how much like

come of this. And I wonder how much like come of this. And I wonder how much like once we know later how much control once we know later how much control once we know later how much control >> and how much coercion and manipulation >> and how much coercion and manipulation >> and how much coercion and manipulation he was using in their lives, how much he he was using in their lives, how much he he was using in their lives, how much he was saying was saying was saying >> we have to >> we have to >> we have to >> we could turn this into something good. >> we could turn this into something good. >> we could turn this into something good. >> Yeah. And what he ends up using later is >> Yeah. And what he ends up using later is >> Yeah. And what he ends up using later is like is if she does anything the whole like is if she does anything the whole like is if she does anything the whole church will fall apart because of her. church will fall apart because of her. church will fall apart because of her. So is there a moment when he's like oh So is there a moment when he's like oh So is there a moment when he's like oh we we have to stay together because we we have to stay together because we we have to stay together because >> it's the only way to stop this bad thing >> it's the only way to stop this bad thing >> it's the only way to stop this bad thing from happening. from happening. from happening. >> This affair is what is breaking apart >> This affair is what is breaking apart >> This affair is what is breaking apart the church. Only the marriage can bring the church. Only the marriage can bring the church. Only the marriage can bring it back together. So they end up getting it back together. So they end up getting it back together. So they end up getting together and it is the perfect example together and it is the perfect example together and it is the perfect example of how everything seems of how everything seems of how everything seems picture perfect online. Like the picture perfect online. Like the picture perfect online. Like the proposal on the beach with the banner proposal on the beach with the banner proposal on the beach with the banner and she's over the moon and like and she's over the moon and like and she's over the moon and like >> they seem incredibly happy. >> they seem incredibly happy. >> they seem incredibly happy. >> But I think even from day one things >> But I think even from day one things >> But I think even from day one things were not what they seemed. were not what they seemed. were not what they seemed. >> No. like it in my opinion they almost >> No. like it in my opinion they almost >> No. like it in my opinion they almost couldn't be. couldn't be. couldn't be. >> We get a little bit more in episode one >> We get a little bit more in episode one >> We get a little bit more in episode one as well of like his his sermons, right?

as well of like his his sermons, right? as well of like his his sermons, right? And about the way that he's talking And about the way that he's talking And about the way that he's talking about himself. One of my favorites was about himself. One of my favorites was about himself. One of my favorites was he was like, he was like, he was like, >> "God's seen everything you've done, >> "God's seen everything you've done, >> "God's seen everything you've done, everything you're going to do, and he everything you're going to do, and he everything you're going to do, and he has already forgiven you." has already forgiven you." has already forgiven you." >> Wild foreshadowing, spoiler alert. But >> Wild foreshadowing, spoiler alert. But >> Wild foreshadowing, spoiler alert. But it's like, it's fine. God has forgiven it's like, it's fine. God has forgiven it's like, it's fine. God has forgiven him. And then he has this other one that him. And then he has this other one that him. And then he has this other one that like I like I feel like most of my like I like I feel like most of my like I like I feel like most of my moments were just like listening to him moments were just like listening to him moments were just like listening to him preach and being like jaw on the floor preach and being like jaw on the floor preach and being like jaw on the floor because he has this other moment where because he has this other moment where because he has this other moment where he says that when you commit adultery on he says that when you commit adultery on he says that when you commit adultery on God he keeps pursuing you and loving you God he keeps pursuing you and loving you God he keeps pursuing you and loving you every single day and he likens salvation every single day and he likens salvation every single day and he likens salvation to marriage. And this is at the point I to marriage. And this is at the point I to marriage. And this is at the point I think when Micah and I don't know how think when Micah and I don't know how think when Micah and I don't know how early she realized but at some point is early she realized but at some point is early she realized but at some point is realizing oh he is running around on her realizing oh he is running around on her realizing oh he is running around on her >> just like he did before >> just like he did before >> just like he did before >> like [laughter] >> like [laughter] >> like [laughter] to quote Euphoria is this play about us to quote Euphoria is this play about us to quote Euphoria is this play about us >> yes and so but again he's like using his >> yes and so but again he's like using his >> yes and so but again he's like using his his pulpit to just spew this stuff. his pulpit to just spew this stuff. his pulpit to just spew this stuff. Okay, so the moment that everything I Okay, so the moment that everything I Okay, so the moment that everything I think changes and takes this very think changes and takes this very think changes and takes this very dramatic turn into where we will end up dramatic turn into where we will end up dramatic turn into where we will end up a couple of years from now is apparently a couple of years from now is apparently a couple of years from now is apparently she has this breast augmentation which she has this breast augmentation which she has this breast augmentation which her family thinks maybe she got just her family thinks maybe she got just her family thinks maybe she got just because of I have no idea why she chose because of I have no idea why she chose because of I have no idea why she chose to do that but there's this I was going to do that but there's this I was going to do that but there's this I was going to say insinuation but it's pretty to say insinuation but it's pretty to say insinuation but it's pretty blatant in the dock where they they they blatant in the dock where they they they blatant in the dock where they they they say or someone is saying say or someone is saying say or someone is saying >> yeah yeah they basically I was going to >> yeah yeah they basically I was going to >> yeah yeah they basically I was going to say imply but you're right they say that say imply but you're right they say that say imply but you're right they say that >> the anesthesia >> the anesthesia >> the anesthesia >> there was a reaction to the anesthesia >> there was a reaction to the anesthesia >> there was a reaction to the anesthesia and she like began having like psychotic

and she like began having like psychotic and she like began having like psychotic episodes. She was going in and out of episodes. She was going in and out of episodes. She was going in and out of psychosis from the anesthesia which I psychosis from the anesthesia which I psychosis from the anesthesia which I have like 400 questions about because have like 400 questions about because have like 400 questions about because >> we really to like prove this we really >> we really to like prove this we really >> we really to like prove this we really get one video that he is taking of her get one video that he is taking of her get one video that he is taking of her where she she isn't making sense. where she she isn't making sense. where she she isn't making sense. >> No. But it's strange because like there >> No. But it's strange because like there >> No. But it's strange because like there is another moment in that first episode is another moment in that first episode is another moment in that first episode where you can tell she is taking a video where you can tell she is taking a video where you can tell she is taking a video and it's like by the way this is and it's like by the way this is and it's like by the way this is something that like I've seen people do something that like I've seen people do something that like I've seen people do in really toxic relationships is they'll in really toxic relationships is they'll in really toxic relationships is they'll like record themselves video audio to like record themselves video audio to like record themselves video audio to like play back later and like play back later and like play back later and >> prove to themselves what's happening. >> prove to themselves what's happening. >> prove to themselves what's happening. >> Yeah. Because the other person will like >> Yeah. Because the other person will like >> Yeah. Because the other person will like make them feel crazy, make them feel crazy, make them feel crazy, >> gaslight them, >> gaslight them, >> gaslight them, >> right? And so like the first time we see >> right? And so like the first time we see >> right? And so like the first time we see this like moment, she's not recording. this like moment, she's not recording. this like moment, she's not recording. She's just kind of talking to him and She's just kind of talking to him and She's just kind of talking to him and >> and sounding off >> and sounding off >> and sounding off >> and like you can't even really tell if >> and like you can't even really tell if >> and like you can't even really tell if she knows she's being recorded in that she knows she's being recorded in that she knows she's being recorded in that moment. Like the phone's kind of like moment. Like the phone's kind of like moment. Like the phone's kind of like off the shots kind of like off to the off the shots kind of like off to the off the shots kind of like off to the side and like side and like side and like >> she's not acknowledging like that she's >> she's not acknowledging like that she's >> she's not acknowledging like that she's being filmed at all. But the second time being filmed at all. But the second time being filmed at all. But the second time that you're talking about when she's that you're talking about when she's that you're talking about when she's filming herself, she does acknowledge filming herself, she does acknowledge filming herself, she does acknowledge like, "Hey, yeah, go ahead, double film like, "Hey, yeah, go ahead, double film like, "Hey, yeah, go ahead, double film me like if that's what you want to do."

me like if that's what you want to do." me like if that's what you want to do." which I think is interesting that we which I think is interesting that we which I think is interesting that we don't have like her point of view her don't have like her point of view her don't have like her point of view her version. We have his which is the like version. We have his which is the like version. We have his which is the like encapsulation encapsulation encapsulation of this entire case and like the entire of this entire case and like the entire of this entire case and like the entire last few years of her life we have his last few years of her life we have his last few years of her life we have his version version version >> because of him, >> because of him, >> because of him, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Like that's very >> Like that's very >> Like that's very >> very obvious. >> very obvious. >> very obvious. >> So at some point like this is 1856 and >> So at some point like this is 1856 and >> So at some point like this is 1856 and this is like what I couldn't believe in this is like what I couldn't believe in this is like what I couldn't believe in the documentary. He has her the documentary. He has her the documentary. He has her involuntarily committed. Yes. involuntarily committed. Yes. involuntarily committed. Yes. >> Which I know you can do. >> Which I know you can do. >> Which I know you can do. >> And we see some of the medical documents >> And we see some of the medical documents >> And we see some of the medical documents that do state that she's like seemingly that do state that she's like seemingly that do state that she's like seemingly delusional. She's having like hyper delusional. She's having like hyper delusional. She's having like hyper religious speak. Like there are things religious speak. Like there are things religious speak. Like there are things that indicate she has seemingly had some that indicate she has seemingly had some that indicate she has seemingly had some break with reality. break with reality. break with reality. How she got there, why she got there, I How she got there, why she got there, I How she got there, why she got there, I have a like I said 400 questions about. have a like I said 400 questions about. have a like I said 400 questions about. But she gets out of there, they get But she gets out of there, they get But she gets out of there, they get married six days after she gets out, married six days after she gets out, married six days after she gets out, which is like but because he had a time which is like but because he had a time which is like but because he had a time plan. That was the other thing they plan. That was the other thing they plan. That was the other thing they said. Like once they like decided they said. Like once they like decided they said. Like once they like decided they were going to be together, apparently he were going to be together, apparently he were going to be together, apparently he gave her some kind of like we're going gave her some kind of like we're going gave her some kind of like we're going to get engaged at this point. We're to get engaged at this point. We're to get engaged at this point. We're going to be engaged for this long and going to be engaged for this long and going to be engaged for this long and then we'll get married. And like her then we'll get married. And like her then we'll get married. And like her being being being >> I wonder if like I'm going to have you >> I wonder if like I'm going to have you >> I wonder if like I'm going to have you committed was like in their committed was like in their committed was like in their >> her I would say her being >> her I would say her being >> her I would say her being institutionalized like could have thrown institutionalized like could have thrown institutionalized like could have thrown off his schedule and that was not going off his schedule and that was not going off his schedule and that was not going to be okay.

to be okay. to be okay. >> Not today. The vows I thought were >> Not today. The vows I thought were >> Not today. The vows I thought were interesting. Did you clock those? Uh she interesting. Did you clock those? Uh she interesting. Did you clock those? Uh she they one they she said that they had they one they she said that they had they one they she said that they had gone in with a plan to give each other gone in with a plan to give each other gone in with a plan to give each other five promises and she could only come up five promises and she could only come up five promises and she could only come up with one and [clears throat] her promise with one and [clears throat] her promise with one and [clears throat] her promise was to give 100% of everything she does was to give 100% of everything she does was to give 100% of everything she does 100% of herself 100% of her 100% of herself 100% of her 100% of herself 100% of her encouragement. This is like a kind of encouragement. This is like a kind of encouragement. This is like a kind of broad broad broad >> quote [clears throat] >> quote [clears throat] >> quote [clears throat] to him. to him. to him. >> Yeah. Everything I am I give to you. His >> Yeah. Everything I am I give to you. His >> Yeah. Everything I am I give to you. His was like different was like different was like different >> and I don't even know if we heard all of >> and I don't even know if we heard all of >> and I don't even know if we heard all of his. his. his. >> I don't know if we heard all of it but I >> I don't know if we heard all of it but I >> I don't know if we heard all of it but I did take notes. did take notes. did take notes. >> See that? I'll strive to continuously >> See that? I'll strive to continuously >> See that? I'll strive to continuously lead you to Jesus. So, she needs to be lead you to Jesus. So, she needs to be lead you to Jesus. So, she needs to be led. led. led. >> I promise to always support your >> I promise to always support your >> I promise to always support your enthusiastic personality, enthusiastic personality, enthusiastic personality, >> which is like timing wise interesting >> which is like timing wise interesting >> which is like timing wise interesting because he just had her committed for because he just had her committed for because he just had her committed for like kind of that. like kind of that. like kind of that. >> And it's not even like a like I love it. >> And it's not even like a like I love it. >> And it's not even like a like I love it. It's like I'll support your enthusiastic It's like I'll support your enthusiastic It's like I'll support your enthusiastic personality. personality. personality. >> Uh he'll remain faithful, loyal, >> Uh he'll remain faithful, loyal, >> Uh he'll remain faithful, loyal, encouraging. encouraging. encouraging. >> Spoiler alert, no. and he's going to >> Spoiler alert, no. and he's going to >> Spoiler alert, no. and he's going to strive to love you the way Christ loved strive to love you the way Christ loved strive to love you the way Christ loved the church. He'll try, the church. He'll try, the church. He'll try, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> That was like his best thing. She's >> That was like his best thing. She's >> That was like his best thing. She's like, I whatever. I just couldn't. like, I whatever. I just couldn't. like, I whatever. I just couldn't. >> I agree. I also will say that like in >> I agree. I also will say that like in >> I agree. I also will say that like in hindsight, those are all like really hindsight, those are all like really hindsight, those are all like really vows, but in the moment in that vows, but in the moment in that vows, but in the moment in that environment, those vows are super environment, those vows are super environment, those vows are super normal. Those vows are super normal. normal. Those vows are super normal. normal. Those vows are super normal. >> I know. Like I'm I I like want to be >> I know. Like I'm I I like want to be >> I know. Like I'm I I like want to be like really clear that we are watching a like really clear that we are watching a like really clear that we are watching a documentary and we are looking at it documentary and we are looking at it documentary and we are looking at it like a decade or more out of the church. like a decade or more out of the church. like a decade or more out of the church. I don't think those vows would have I don't think those vows would have I don't think those vows would have given me any red flags. given me any red flags. given me any red flags. >> Not at the time, but her I mean her >> Not at the time, but her I mean her >> Not at the time, but her I mean her family family family >> her family was not thrilled because they >> her family was not thrilled because they >> her family was not thrilled because they they had more background. But and this they had more background. But and this they had more background. But and this is where Yeah. No, the vows by is where Yeah. No, the vows by is where Yeah. No, the vows by themselves don't. And to your point of themselves don't. And to your point of themselves don't. And to your point of the same thing with the sermons, it's the same thing with the sermons, it's the same thing with the sermons, it's like when you're in it and you're living like when you're in it and you're living like when you're in it and you're living it, I think this is what can be so hard it, I think this is what can be so hard it, I think this is what can be so hard to like spot abuse in someone else is to like spot abuse in someone else is to like spot abuse in someone else is like you from the outside get these like like you from the outside get these like like you from the outside get these like tiny moments where like tiny moments where like tiny moments where like >> something feels off >> something feels off >> something feels off >> smooshed in between everything else. >> smooshed in between everything else. >> smooshed in between everything else. You're like, well, everything else like You're like, well, everything else like You're like, well, everything else like that what that must just be like a weird that what that must just be like a weird that what that must just be like a weird them thing.

them thing. them thing. >> And maybe the vows aren't even that cuz >> And maybe the vows aren't even that cuz >> And maybe the vows aren't even that cuz like I I agree with you in the church like I I agree with you in the church like I I agree with you in the church that wouldn't have registered. But like that wouldn't have registered. But like that wouldn't have registered. But like this is when after they get married, I I this is when after they get married, I I this is when after they get married, I I think their friends start to get those think their friends start to get those think their friends start to get those weird moments like the weird moments like the weird moments like the >> Well, and her [clears throat] she and I >> Well, and her [clears throat] she and I >> Well, and her [clears throat] she and I I told a couple other people this after I told a couple other people this after I told a couple other people this after I watched it. Like I am so proud of her I watched it. Like I am so proud of her I watched it. Like I am so proud of her for how much she talked to her friends. for how much she talked to her friends. for how much she talked to her friends. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean you and I see it all the >> Because I mean you and I see it all the >> Because I mean you and I see it all the time in episodes where like abuse and time in episodes where like abuse and time in episodes where like abuse and coercion and manipulation is happening coercion and manipulation is happening coercion and manipulation is happening and the person experiencing it never and the person experiencing it never and the person experiencing it never says a thing. Yeah. and you find out says a thing. Yeah. and you find out says a thing. Yeah. and you find out from their diaries or you find out from from their diaries or you find out from from their diaries or you find out from their recordings and you don't you don't their recordings and you don't you don't their recordings and you don't you don't find out any of that until find out any of that until find out any of that until >> it's it's too late and like she she was >> it's it's too late and like she she was >> it's it's too late and like she she was already doing that. But I can tell you already doing that. But I can tell you already doing that. But I can tell you from experience from experience from experience saying those things in that environment saying those things in that environment saying those things in that environment >> about your p the pastor >> about your p the pastor >> about your p the pastor >> about your husband the pastor >> about your husband the pastor >> about your husband the pastor impossible. incredibly brave for her to impossible. incredibly brave for her to impossible. incredibly brave for her to say the things that she said to anyone, say the things that she said to anyone, say the things that she said to anyone, let alone we have like three of her let alone we have like three of her let alone we have like three of her friends at least, plus her plus her friends at least, plus her plus her friends at least, plus her plus her family. Like family. Like family. Like >> she was saying things that like I know >> she was saying things that like I know >> she was saying things that like I know are really really scary to say in any are really really scary to say in any are really really scary to say in any environment from the work that we do, environment from the work that we do, environment from the work that we do, but like in that environment is honestly but like in that environment is honestly but like in that environment is honestly almost unheard of.

almost unheard of. almost unheard of. >> I know. And I don't know how how long it >> I know. And I don't know how how long it >> I know. And I don't know how how long it took her to get to that point. But like took her to get to that point. But like took her to get to that point. But like she does start to drop these little she does start to drop these little she does start to drop these little things like right at one point she's things like right at one point she's things like right at one point she's like I'm not allowed to like get out of like I'm not allowed to like get out of like I'm not allowed to like get out of bed before him in the morning. And again bed before him in the morning. And again bed before him in the morning. And again her friends are like well that's her friends are like well that's her friends are like well that's >> that's kind of weird but like your >> that's kind of weird but like your >> that's kind of weird but like your relationship you guys do you. relationship you guys do you. relationship you guys do you. >> Yeah. And then it starts getting more >> Yeah. And then it starts getting more >> Yeah. And then it starts getting more concerning where she's like we have sex concerning where she's like we have sex concerning where she's like we have sex every single day. Sometimes multiple every single day. Sometimes multiple every single day. Sometimes multiple times a day times a day times a day >> and if it doesn't happen he finds it >> and if it doesn't happen he finds it >> and if it doesn't happen he finds it somewhere else. somewhere else. somewhere else. >> Every day. which is like [laughter] all >> Every day. which is like [laughter] all >> Every day. which is like [laughter] all of her friends were like, "Girl, are you of her friends were like, "Girl, are you of her friends were like, "Girl, are you okay?" Like, it's wild. And I think that okay?" Like, it's wild. And I think that okay?" Like, it's wild. And I think that like I think he must have known that she like I think he must have known that she like I think he must have known that she was starting to share because or or this was starting to share because or or this was starting to share because or or this I mean, we see this in so many abusive I mean, we see this in so many abusive I mean, we see this in so many abusive relationships, but like this idea that relationships, but like this idea that relationships, but like this idea that um we get in the documentary where he um we get in the documentary where he um we get in the documentary where he she talks about one of her friends talks she talks about one of her friends talks she talks about one of her friends talks about how she's not allowed to like hang about how she's not allowed to like hang about how she's not allowed to like hang out for more than like two hours out for more than like two hours out for more than like two hours >> or three hours. and he starts cuz he >> or three hours. and he starts cuz he >> or three hours. and he starts cuz he start calling and calling and calling start calling and calling and calling start calling and calling and calling and I think I was thinking about like and I think I was thinking about like and I think I was thinking about like what that is is like I don't think it's what that is is like I don't think it's what that is is like I don't think it's that they want to be with them. It's that they want to be with them. It's that they want to be with them. It's like like like >> in in an hour everyone's catching up, >> in in an hour everyone's catching up, >> in in an hour everyone's catching up, right? Everyone's talking but like the right? Everyone's talking but like the right? Everyone's talking but like the more time you give them to share and more time you give them to share and more time you give them to share and share.

share. share. >> It's a comfortable level. It's like when >> It's a comfortable level. It's like when >> It's a comfortable level. It's like when my dad would like let us rough house and my dad would like let us rough house and my dad would like let us rough house and he's like, "Okay, but after 15 minutes he's like, "Okay, but after 15 minutes he's like, "Okay, but after 15 minutes like you're going to hurt yourself cuz like you're going to hurt yourself cuz like you're going to hurt yourself cuz you're going to get too comfortable." you're going to get too comfortable." you're going to get too comfortable." like you're going to like push the like you're going to like push the like you're going to like push the limits because limits because limits because >> you're in this place of like you're in >> you're in this place of like you're in >> you're in this place of like you're in the zone. Yeah. And you will push the zone. Yeah. And you will push the zone. Yeah. And you will push yourself and push yourself until someone yourself and push yourself until someone yourself and push yourself until someone gets hurt. And like that's essentially gets hurt. And like that's essentially gets hurt. And like that's essentially the same thing but emotionally like he the same thing but emotionally like he the same thing but emotionally like he she's going to be so comfortable that she's going to be so comfortable that she's going to be so comfortable that she's going to open it up and it's going she's going to open it up and it's going she's going to open it up and it's going to expose him or she's going to also to expose him or she's going to also to expose him or she's going to also like the longer you're out of the bubble like the longer you're out of the bubble like the longer you're out of the bubble and you and you and you >> here you realize that what your your >> here you realize that what your your >> here you realize that what your your life is weird. life is weird. life is weird. >> Yeah. That like oh wait that's not okay. >> Yeah. That like oh wait that's not okay. >> Yeah. That like oh wait that's not okay. You and your husband your husband You and your husband your husband You and your husband your husband doesn't make you have sex with them doesn't make you have sex with them doesn't make you have sex with them every single day. Oh, your husband every single day. Oh, your husband every single day. Oh, your husband doesn't make you like, "Oh my god, maybe doesn't make you like, "Oh my god, maybe doesn't make you like, "Oh my god, maybe there is something like I feel like it's there is something like I feel like it's there is something like I feel like it's wrong, but I'm being told it's wrong, but I'm being told it's wrong, but I'm being told it's >> like the affirmation that like >> like the affirmation that like >> like the affirmation that like >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> this is >> this is >> this is >> it's so much of why someone in a >> it's so much of why someone in a >> it's so much of why someone in a relation they'll give you whatever relation they'll give you whatever relation they'll give you whatever excuse they want to keep you away from excuse they want to keep you away from excuse they want to keep you away from people. people. people. >> It's isolation. >> It's isolation. >> It's isolation. >> But yeah, isolation is for a reason. Put >> But yeah, isolation is for a reason. Put >> But yeah, isolation is for a reason. Put the excuses aside. the excuses aside. the excuses aside. >> Go out. Go beyond the bubble is what I >> Go out. Go beyond the bubble is what I >> Go out. Go beyond the bubble is what I would suggest to people. Spend more time would suggest to people. Spend more time would suggest to people. Spend more time outside. And I think you realize what's outside. And I think you realize what's outside. And I think you realize what's happening inside is not right. And I happening inside is not right. And I happening inside is not right. And I think more and more think more and more think more and more >> that was starting to happen for her. Now >> that was starting to happen for her. Now >> that was starting to happen for her. Now at some point the relationship at some point the relationship at some point the relationship like it had to have looked good from the like it had to have looked good from the like it had to have looked good from the outside, right? Like they're getting outside, right? Like they're getting outside, right? Like they're getting married, people are happy for him, her married, people are happy for him, her married, people are happy for him, her family's showing up to the wedding.

family's showing up to the wedding. family's showing up to the wedding. >> The church seems to be doing like well. >> The church seems to be doing like well. >> The church seems to be doing like well. >> Yeah. But it starts like really >> Yeah. But it starts like really >> Yeah. But it starts like really deteriorating. And it seems like that deteriorating. And it seems like that deteriorating. And it seems like that began to happen, at least the way they began to happen, at least the way they began to happen, at least the way they position in the documentary, because he position in the documentary, because he position in the documentary, because he starts pushing her more and more, starts pushing her more and more, starts pushing her more and more, whatever was happening before in their whatever was happening before in their whatever was happening before in their marriage, he gets to this point where marriage, he gets to this point where marriage, he gets to this point where he's pushing her sexually. And like I I he's pushing her sexually. And like I I he's pushing her sexually. And like I I feels like this breaking point was when feels like this breaking point was when feels like this breaking point was when he was like asking her like, you know, he was like asking her like, you know, he was like asking her like, you know, if you had to kiss any of your friends if you had to kiss any of your friends if you had to kiss any of your friends >> and like the way he does this made me >> and like the way he does this made me >> and like the way he does this made me want to crawl out of my skin because want to crawl out of my skin because want to crawl out of my skin because she's like, what? No, no, I don't. I she's like, what? No, no, I don't. I she's like, what? No, no, I don't. I don't. I don't. But he pushes and pushes don't. I don't. But he pushes and pushes don't. I don't. But he pushes and pushes >> and finally she says a name of like a >> and finally she says a name of like a >> and finally she says a name of like a very close friend of hers and then he very close friend of hers and then he very close friend of hers and then he >> flips. >> flips. >> flips. >> The way he put her and him in a group >> The way he put her and him in a group >> The way he put her and him in a group chat with that friend chat with that friend chat with that friend >> was >> was >> was psychotic. psychotic. psychotic. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And it like the way he tried to like >> And it like the way he tried to like >> And it like the way he tried to like control the story of like, okay, I'm control the story of like, okay, I'm control the story of like, okay, I'm going to put you in this friend and I'm going to put you in this friend and I'm going to put you in this friend and I'm going to talk about how you're crazy and going to talk about how you're crazy and going to talk about how you're crazy and you're leaving. And she's like, I just you're leaving. And she's like, I just you're leaving. And she's like, I just wanted to go see my sister. Like what wanted to go see my sister. Like what wanted to go see my sister. Like what are you talking about? You acting crazy.

are you talking about? You acting crazy. are you talking about? You acting crazy. like you again and it's all about God. like you again and it's all about God. like you again and it's all about God. Like you're not being godly and no man Like you're not being godly and no man Like you're not being godly and no man would stand for this. would stand for this. would stand for this. >> It was unbelievable. And she's starting >> It was unbelievable. And she's starting >> It was unbelievable. And she's starting to move more and more away. And this is to move more and more away. And this is to move more and more away. And this is when we get like the first I don't know when we get like the first I don't know when we get like the first I don't know how much violence she was experiencing, how much violence she was experiencing, how much violence she was experiencing, but the first thing we see in the but the first thing we see in the but the first thing we see in the documentary is like there's a point documentary is like there's a point documentary is like there's a point where he threatens to come to her where he threatens to come to her where he threatens to come to her sisters sisters sisters >> with a gun. >> with a gun. >> with a gun. >> I mean, I think what he says is, "I'm >> I mean, I think what he says is, "I'm >> I mean, I think what he says is, "I'm armed and ready." armed and ready." armed and ready." >> In the documentary, I think they show an >> In the documentary, I think they show an >> In the documentary, I think they show an image of a gun, so I'm making I'm making image of a gun, so I'm making I'm making image of a gun, so I'm making I'm making the entrance. There is talk in affidavit the entrance. There is talk in affidavit the entrance. There is talk in affidavit later about him purchasing guns going later about him purchasing guns going later about him purchasing guns going shooting. So anyways, shooting. So anyways, shooting. So anyways, >> unbelievable. And so this is where we >> unbelievable. And so this is where we >> unbelievable. And so this is where we get that violence that's being get that violence that's being get that violence that's being threatened, threatened, threatened, >> right? Cuz up until now it's like >> right? Cuz up until now it's like >> right? Cuz up until now it's like psychological psychological psychological >> or seems like that's all we know about. >> or seems like that's all we know about. >> or seems like that's all we know about. >> That's all we that we've seen in the >> That's all we that we've seen in the >> That's all we that we've seen in the documentary at least. documentary at least. documentary at least. >> So we really end episode one at that >> So we really end episode one at that >> So we really end episode one at that point. point. point. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I was hooked. [laughter] >> I was hooked. [laughter] >> I was hooked. [laughter] So episode two we open with you know So episode two we open with you know So episode two we open with you know this like beautiful sermon where he is this like beautiful sermon where he is this like beautiful sermon where he is talking about obey those who have talking about obey those who have talking about obey those who have authority over you because no authority authority over you because no authority authority over you because no authority exists without God's permission exists without God's permission exists without God's permission >> and again this is the theme throughout >> and again this is the theme throughout >> and again this is the theme throughout God has anointed him God must have given God has anointed him God must have given God has anointed him God must have given him authority and this is the thing that him authority and this is the thing that him authority and this is the thing that I'm like I don't know why people believe I'm like I don't know why people believe I'm like I don't know why people believe because like also in the Bible it's like because like also in the Bible it's like because like also in the Bible it's like beware of false prophets and so like I beware of false prophets and so like I beware of false prophets and so like I want to make sure that comes through want to make sure that comes through want to make sure that comes through >> this I watched this documentary the

>> this I watched this documentary the >> this I watched this documentary the first time with your sister which was first time with your sister which was first time with your sister which was >> Oh, did you really? >> Oh, did you really? >> Oh, did you really? >> Oh yeah, we watched it together >> Oh yeah, we watched it together >> Oh yeah, we watched it together [laughter] cuz like you came like you [laughter] cuz like you came like you [laughter] cuz like you came like you had texted us the night before we came had texted us the night before we came had texted us the night before we came into work the next day and you were like into work the next day and you were like into work the next day and you were like we we're going to talk about this so you we we're going to talk about this so you we we're going to talk about this so you guys should watch it. We're like well guys should watch it. We're like well guys should watch it. We're like well why not? So we watched it together. Um why not? So we watched it together. Um why not? So we watched it together. Um and that was something that we both like and that was something that we both like and that was something that we both like paused and we're like so this is kind of paused and we're like so this is kind of paused and we're like so this is kind of like an oraorus a snake that eats its like an oraorus a snake that eats its like an oraorus a snake that eats its own tail, right? It's like you're own tail, right? It's like you're own tail, right? It's like you're anointed by God because God told you you anointed by God because God told you you anointed by God because God told you you were anointed. So you're anointed by God were anointed. So you're anointed by God were anointed. So you're anointed by God because you're like it it was really because you're like it it was really because you're like it it was really hard and I think this might be like a hard and I think this might be like a hard and I think this might be like a good time to like talk a little bit good time to like talk a little bit good time to like talk a little bit about what a non-denominational church about what a non-denominational church about what a non-denominational church is like. is like. is like. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like to a certain extent in this >> Like to a certain extent in this >> Like to a certain extent in this non-denominational church non-denominational church non-denominational church that's all he needs, right? Like is the that's all he needs, right? Like is the that's all he needs, right? Like is the belief that he is anointed by God to do belief that he is anointed by God to do belief that he is anointed by God to do this. In a lot of non-denominational this. In a lot of non-denominational this. In a lot of non-denominational churches, there isn't necessarily an churches, there isn't necessarily an churches, there isn't necessarily an like governing body that like like governing body that like like governing body that like specifically ordains or teaches and specifically ordains or teaches and specifically ordains or teaches and trains through a program like there are trains through a program like there are trains through a program like there are a lot of churches that are a lot of churches that are a lot of churches that are non-denominational that like are kind of non-denominational that like are kind of non-denominational that like are kind of just started by people and stop and just started by people and stop and just started by people and stop and that's that's that's >> and like that I don't I don't know JP >> and like that I don't I don't know JP >> and like that I don't I don't know JP Miller's like Miller's like Miller's like theological seminary theological seminary theological seminary educational history but like educational history but like educational history but like >> I got details [laughter] >> I got details [laughter] >> I got details [laughter] coming your way.

coming your way. coming your way. >> This is why I didn't Google. But like I >> This is why I didn't Google. But like I >> This is why I didn't Google. But like I know that like we both kind of sat there know that like we both kind of sat there know that like we both kind of sat there and we're like, you know, like he's and we're like, you know, like he's and we're like, you know, like he's saying this and he's because he's saying saying this and he's because he's saying saying this and he's because he's saying it, he's proving it and that's really it, he's proving it and that's really it, he's proving it and that's really the only proof we have. And in this sort the only proof we have. And in this sort the only proof we have. And in this sort of culture that is a lot of times all of culture that is a lot of times all of culture that is a lot of times all there is and enough. there is and enough. there is and enough. >> I Yeah. So like we and we'll get to this >> I Yeah. So like we and we'll get to this >> I Yeah. So like we and we'll get to this a little bit later because we we it kind a little bit later because we we it kind a little bit later because we we it kind of gets revealed I think in episode two of gets revealed I think in episode two of gets revealed I think in episode two or three that like the structure of or three that like the structure of or three that like the structure of their church is just like Oh, I have their church is just like Oh, I have their church is just like Oh, I have that written down already. [laughter] that written down already. [laughter] that written down already. [laughter] Bro, it's a business. Like you own a Bro, it's a business. Like you own a Bro, it's a business. Like you own a business. business. business. >> Yeah. Because we're going to get ahead >> Yeah. Because we're going to get ahead >> Yeah. Because we're going to get ahead of ourselves, but yes. Essentially, and of ourselves, but yes. Essentially, and of ourselves, but yes. Essentially, and I can talk more a little bit to that I can talk more a little bit to that I can talk more a little bit to that [laughter] as well. [laughter] as well. [laughter] as well. >> But but yeah, so it's not like there's >> But but yeah, so it's not like there's >> But but yeah, so it's not like there's this like this body of people who have this like this body of people who have this like this body of people who have decided that you are God has told them. decided that you are God has told them. decided that you are God has told them. No, God told no one but you that you No, God told no one but you that you No, God told no one but you that you >> and like maybe there are people in your >> and like maybe there are people in your >> and like maybe there are people in your life who have supported that like life who have supported that like life who have supported that like >> oh that would have been calling >> oh that would have been calling >> oh that would have been calling >> that would have been his father >> that would have been his father >> that would have been his father >> which we can talk about which we'll get >> which we can talk about which we'll get >> which we can talk about which we'll get to in the documents to in the documents to in the documents >> but like there there there are likely >> but like there there there are likely >> but like there there there are likely like people affirming that like feel of like people affirming that like feel of like people affirming that like feel of calling on his life but like as far as calling on his life but like as far as calling on his life but like as far as like were there like things he boxes he like were there like things he boxes he like were there like things he boxes he had to tick to get there had to tick to get there had to tick to get there >> I would guess not really.

>> I would guess not really. >> I would guess not really. >> So obey those have authority God only >> So obey those have authority God only >> So obey those have authority God only gives authority. A wife should always gives authority. A wife should always gives authority. A wife should always honor and respect her husband's. And it honor and respect her husband's. And it honor and respect her husband's. And it he basically is like, and it's not just he basically is like, and it's not just he basically is like, and it's not just honor and respect because what all these honor and respect because what all these honor and respect because what all these become about is become about is become about is >> sex. Sex. If you're not fulfilling your >> sex. Sex. If you're not fulfilling your >> sex. Sex. If you're not fulfilling your husband, someone else is going to. I husband, someone else is going to. I husband, someone else is going to. I don't know when it is that he I think don't know when it is that he I think don't know when it is that he I think it's in this one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it's in this one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it's in this one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you like don't meet the needs of your If you like don't meet the needs of your If you like don't meet the needs of your husband, Satan's going to come and give husband, Satan's going to come and give husband, Satan's going to come and give him 20 him 20 him 20 >> by the end of the day. And I'm like, >> by the end of the day. And I'm like, >> by the end of the day. And I'm like, wait, does Satan not come normally? or wait, does Satan not come normally? or wait, does Satan not come normally? or it's like and I think later he basically it's like and I think later he basically it's like and I think later he basically is like but then you don't have the is like but then you don't have the is like but then you don't have the self-control to like turn Satan away and self-control to like turn Satan away and self-control to like turn Satan away and I'm like bro that's you're a grown ass I'm like bro that's you're a grown ass I'm like bro that's you're a grown ass man man man >> but also like like putting putting the >> but also like like putting putting the >> but also like like putting putting the mindset in like but you're a child of mindset in like but you're a child of mindset in like but you're a child of God so shouldn't you like by your own by God so shouldn't you like by your own by God so shouldn't you like by your own by your own teaching you actually should your own teaching you actually should your own teaching you actually should have that power have that power have that power >> well not if your wife doesn't have sex >> well not if your wife doesn't have sex >> well not if your wife doesn't have sex with you that day so with you that day so with you that day so I just like this is what he is tell and I just like this is what he is tell and I just like this is what he is tell and again we didn't grow up in a world where again we didn't grow up in a world where again we didn't grow up in a world where this was like That crazy to hear.

this was like That crazy to hear. this was like That crazy to hear. >> No. And again, like coming back to this >> No. And again, like coming back to this >> No. And again, like coming back to this is a tiny little grain of sand that is is a tiny little grain of sand that is is a tiny little grain of sand that is horrible amongst a thing, a bunch of horrible amongst a thing, a bunch of horrible amongst a thing, a bunch of stuff that is completely like stuff that is completely like stuff that is completely like good is like a stretch, but like benign, good is like a stretch, but like benign, good is like a stretch, but like benign, right? Like not right? Like not right? Like not >> imminently harmful. >> imminently harmful. >> imminently harmful. >> And the other stuff Yeah. The other >> And the other stuff Yeah. The other >> And the other stuff Yeah. The other stuff is like, oh, that kind of makes stuff is like, oh, that kind of makes stuff is like, oh, that kind of makes sense. So like this, sense. So like this, sense. So like this, >> he wouldn't just slip in some weird >> he wouldn't just slip in some weird >> he wouldn't just slip in some weird [ __ ] Yeah. He's a pastor. And like [ __ ] Yeah. He's a pastor. And like [ __ ] Yeah. He's a pastor. And like episode two really becomes about what episode two really becomes about what episode two really becomes about what he's like forcing her to do to meet his he's like forcing her to do to meet his he's like forcing her to do to meet his sexual needs because I think the whole sexual needs because I think the whole sexual needs because I think the whole episode is titled help me which I had episode is titled help me which I had episode is titled help me which I had never heard before. never heard before. never heard before. >> Oh, it's >> Oh, it's >> Oh, it's >> what >> what >> what >> it's like a it could be a translation >> it's like a it could be a translation >> it's like a it could be a translation for like literally Genesis and Adam and for like literally Genesis and Adam and for like literally Genesis and Adam and Eve like in like the helpmate or help Eve like in like the helpmate or help Eve like in like the helpmate or help meet is like what like in some meet is like what like in some meet is like what like in some translations is what Eve is to Adam. translations is what Eve is to Adam. translations is what Eve is to Adam. like it it goes back to like the very like it it goes back to like the very like it it goes back to like the very core of like humanity in like how like core of like humanity in like how like core of like humanity in like how like biblical biblical biblical people in church I I don't want to say people in church I I don't want to say people in church I I don't want to say biblical scholars because there's like a biblical scholars because there's like a biblical scholars because there's like a lot of debate about it but like it is in lot of debate about it but like it is in lot of debate about it but like it is in translations as like the wife is a translations as like the wife is a translations as like the wife is a helpmate or a helpmate and like that is helpmate or a helpmate and like that is helpmate or a helpmate and like that is the core of humanity and what the core of humanity and what the core of humanity and what partnership is in a lot of translations partnership is in a lot of translations partnership is in a lot of translations and in a lot of denominations and and in a lot of denominations and and in a lot of denominations and non-denominational churches is like that non-denominational churches is like that non-denominational churches is like that is the wording and that is the thought is the wording and that is the thought is the wording and that is the thought process and that is all the way back to process and that is all the way back to process and that is all the way back to the very first book of the Bible.

the very first book of the Bible. the very first book of the Bible. Uh I was a pastor's wife for a long Uh I was a pastor's wife for a long Uh I was a pastor's wife for a long time, guys. time, guys. time, guys. >> Oh, yeah. Do people know that? >> Oh, yeah. Do people know that? >> Oh, yeah. Do people know that? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I feel like maybe this is a good time to >> I feel like maybe this is a good time to >> I feel like maybe this is a good time to drop. drop. drop. >> I guess I didn't. I'm like I obviously >> I guess I didn't. I'm like I obviously >> I guess I didn't. I'm like I obviously I've known you for 38 years. [laughter] I've known you for 38 years. [laughter] I've known you for 38 years. [laughter] Wait, you want to give like a quick Wait, you want to give like a quick Wait, you want to give like a quick quick history? [laughter] quick history? [laughter] quick history? [laughter] >> Sure. Um Ashley and I grew up in the >> Sure. Um Ashley and I grew up in the >> Sure. Um Ashley and I grew up in the same church. The church that we grew up same church. The church that we grew up same church. The church that we grew up in, my dad had been going to since he in, my dad had been going to since he in, my dad had been going to since he was 16. So I like grew up my dad grew up was 16. So I like grew up my dad grew up was 16. So I like grew up my dad grew up in that church. Um in that church. Um in that church. Um >> my dad was an associate pastor which >> my dad was an associate pastor which >> my dad was an associate pastor which like again we're this was like what I like again we're this was like what I like again we're this was like what I would consider a mega church would consider a mega church would consider a mega church >> especially in like the 80s and 90s. >> especially in like the 80s and 90s. >> especially in like the 80s and 90s. >> Yeah. I mean they had growing up >> Yeah. I mean they had growing up >> Yeah. I mean they had growing up televangelists. They were in other televangelists. They were in other televangelists. They were in other countries. They were like countries. They were like countries. They were like >> there was a television network there. >> there was a television network there. >> there was a television network there. Our church sat like over 2,000 people. Our church sat like over 2,000 people. Our church sat like over 2,000 people. >> Yeah. And so yeah, your parents were >> Yeah. And so yeah, your parents were >> Yeah. And so yeah, your parents were deep in it. My dad worked there. I like deep in it. My dad worked there. I like deep in it. My dad worked there. I like lived on the property of the church. lived on the property of the church. lived on the property of the church. Yeah. Naturally. Yeah. Naturally. Yeah. Naturally. >> Um my mom was a worship leader my entire >> Um my mom was a worship leader my entire >> Um my mom was a worship leader my entire childhood. My dad was like head usher. I childhood. My dad was like head usher. I childhood. My dad was like head usher. I started on a worship team when I was 11. started on a worship team when I was 11. started on a worship team when I was 11. Um, and then was on a worship team Um, and then was on a worship team Um, and then was on a worship team essentially until I left the church when essentially until I left the church when essentially until I left the church when I was like in my late 20s. Um, I met my I was like in my late 20s. Um, I met my I was like in my late 20s. Um, I met my husband there. Justin grew up with us as husband there. Justin grew up with us as husband there. Justin grew up with us as well. His family started going there well. His family started going there well. His family started going there when he was like two, so we all grew up when he was like two, so we all grew up when he was like two, so we all grew up together.

together. together. >> Um, we were on a worship team together. >> Um, we were on a worship team together. >> Um, we were on a worship team together. >> Um, I thankfully cannot sing, so you'll >> Um, I thankfully cannot sing, so you'll >> Um, I thankfully cannot sing, so you'll never get a picture of me on stage. never get a picture of me on stage. never get a picture of me on stage. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Like, let's get pictures of you guys >> Like, let's get pictures of you guys >> Like, let's get pictures of you guys working together. I was like, "Oh, no. working together. I was like, "Oh, no. working together. I was like, "Oh, no. She wasn't there." She wasn't there." She wasn't there." >> No, no, no. [laughter] I I like how you >> No, no, no. [laughter] I I like how you >> No, no, no. [laughter] I I like how you still have like the little bit of the still have like the little bit of the still have like the little bit of the snobby worship team in you. You're like, snobby worship team in you. You're like, snobby worship team in you. You're like, "No, no, no, "No, no, no, "No, no, no, >> no. She's not on the team." Um, but we >> no. She's not on the team." Um, but we >> no. She's not on the team." Um, but we our church went through a lot of turmoil our church went through a lot of turmoil our church went through a lot of turmoil around our high school years. I There around our high school years. I There around our high school years. I There were church splits. There were pastors were church splits. There were pastors were church splits. There were pastors leaving. There was different versions of leaving. There was different versions of leaving. There was different versions of like the church we grew up in. I dabbled like the church we grew up in. I dabbled like the church we grew up in. I dabbled in a little bit of all of them. I um in a little bit of all of them. I um in a little bit of all of them. I um >> I was gone. >> I was gone. >> I was gone. >> You were gone. [laughter] >> You were gone. [laughter] >> You were gone. [laughter] >> I was out. Uh Jess and I got married >> I was out. Uh Jess and I got married >> I was out. Uh Jess and I got married also really young and we started going also really young and we started going also really young and we started going to a different church. We stayed there to a different church. We stayed there to a different church. We stayed there until I was like 29 I think 28 or 29. Um until I was like 29 I think 28 or 29. Um until I was like 29 I think 28 or 29. Um left for a lot of different reasons but left for a lot of different reasons but left for a lot of different reasons but while we were there I was also a worship while we were there I was also a worship while we were there I was also a worship pastor there. Um he became ordained and pastor there. Um he became ordained and pastor there. Um he became ordained and he um was an associate pastor there for he um was an associate pastor there for he um was an associate pastor there for I think four or five years. And so for I think four or five years. And so for I think four or five years. And so for four or five years I was he was a four or five years I was he was a four or five years I was he was a pastor. I was a worship leader. I was a pastor. I was a worship leader. I was a pastor. I was a worship leader. I was a pastor's wife. Um pastor's wife. Um pastor's wife. Um >> we like Justin you guys. Justin's >> we like Justin you guys. Justin's >> we like Justin you guys. Justin's school. It's really cool. [laughter] school. It's really cool. [laughter] school. It's really cool. [laughter] We're good now. We're all good.

We're good now. We're all good. We're good now. We're all good. >> We're safe. >> We're safe. >> We're safe. >> We're all [laughter] Um, but like I So I >> We're all [laughter] Um, but like I So I >> We're all [laughter] Um, but like I So I as recently as legitimately 10 years as recently as legitimately 10 years as recently as legitimately 10 years ago, like was I could close I can like ago, like was I could close I can like ago, like was I could close I can like close my eyes and put myself in Solid close my eyes and put myself in Solid close my eyes and put myself in Solid Rock Church because I went to a church Rock Church because I went to a church Rock Church because I went to a church that was like that was like that was like >> based on like the videos and pictures >> based on like the videos and pictures >> based on like the videos and pictures that I've seen like not that far off. that I've seen like not that far off. that I've seen like not that far off. >> Not far off. Like this honestly like the >> Not far off. Like this honestly like the >> Not far off. Like this honestly like the stage looked really similar to the one stage looked really similar to the one stage looked really similar to the one that I was on most recently. like the that I was on most recently. like the that I was on most recently. like the size of the church looked really size of the church looked really size of the church looked really similar. Um the the comparisons similar. Um the the comparisons similar. Um the the comparisons especially as I get into like the especially as I get into like the especially as I get into like the structure and like what happened is kind structure and like what happened is kind structure and like what happened is kind of wild. So it's not like I I I think of wild. So it's not like I I I think of wild. So it's not like I I I think what I was seeing in there and why I what I was seeing in there and why I what I was seeing in there and why I felt so like oh my god I like I was in felt so like oh my god I like I was in felt so like oh my god I like I was in this church. It's this church. It's this church. It's >> because of things that happened that you >> because of things that happened that you >> because of things that happened that you don't even know about. don't even know about. don't even know about. >> It's a one for one. Just even the >> It's a one for one. Just even the >> It's a one for one. Just even the structure and like the I mean kind of structure and like the I mean kind of structure and like the I mean kind of unbelievable. Oh, also speaking of this unbelievable. Oh, also speaking of this unbelievable. Oh, also speaking of this is back to the like you're your own is back to the like you're your own is back to the like you're your own authority. You were the one who just authority. You were the one who just authority. You were the one who just told me. So the like head of our church, told me. So the like head of our church, told me. So the like head of our church, like founder of our church was a like like founder of our church was a like like founder of our church was a like doctor or whatever, whatever. And doctor or whatever, whatever. And doctor or whatever, whatever. And >> honorary doctor. Yeah.

>> honorary doctor. Yeah. >> honorary doctor. Yeah. >> Yeah. And you were like, you know, he >> Yeah. And you were like, you know, he >> Yeah. And you were like, you know, he wasn't like he didn't actually have like wasn't like he didn't actually have like wasn't like he didn't actually have like a PhD or anything. And I was like, wait, a PhD or anything. And I was like, wait, a PhD or anything. And I was like, wait, what? You're like what? You're like what? You're like >> it was like a couple years ago. She's >> it was like a couple years ago. She's >> it was like a couple years ago. She's like, so doctor wasn't a Cuz like we like, so doctor wasn't a Cuz like we like, so doctor wasn't a Cuz like we also called him doctor like all the also called him doctor like all the also called him doctor like all the time. Um, and you're like, "So doctor time. Um, and you're like, "So doctor time. Um, and you're like, "So doctor wasn't a doctor?" And I was like, "Girl, wasn't a doctor?" And I was like, "Girl, wasn't a doctor?" And I was like, "Girl, where did you where did he went?" where did you where did he went?" where did you where did he went?" >> Yeah. He made his own Bible college and >> Yeah. He made his own Bible college and >> Yeah. He made his own Bible college and made himself a doctor. I was like, "You made himself a doctor. I was like, "You made himself a doctor. I was like, "You got to be freaking kidding me." [gasps] got to be freaking kidding me." [gasps] got to be freaking kidding me." [gasps] Wait, how did we [laughter] Wait, how did we [laughter] Wait, how did we [laughter] >> I went off on like a tangent about Bible >> I went off on like a tangent about Bible >> I went off on like a tangent about Bible translations and then had to tell people translations and then had to tell people translations and then had to tell people that I that I that I >> Help me. >> Help me. >> Help me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, in this episode, the the next wild >> So, in this episode, the the next wild >> So, in this episode, the the next wild part that we got. So, all this is like part that we got. So, all this is like part that we got. So, all this is like very much focused on like her meeting very much focused on like her meeting very much focused on like her meeting his sexual needs. his sexual needs. his sexual needs. >> Do you want to talk about the >> Do you want to talk about the >> Do you want to talk about the testosterone? testosterone? testosterone? This This This >> pissed me off on so many levels, >> pissed me off on so many levels, >> pissed me off on so many levels, including like as a vocalist and a including like as a vocalist and a including like as a vocalist and a worship leader. Like she's like on worship leader. Like she's like on worship leader. Like she's like on stage, she's struggling. She's losing stage, she's struggling. She's losing stage, she's struggling. She's losing her voice. Her hair is falling out. And her voice. Her hair is falling out. And her voice. Her hair is falling out. And everyone's like, "Oh, she's just like everyone's like, "Oh, she's just like everyone's like, "Oh, she's just like going through it." Well, cuz also it's going through it." Well, cuz also it's going through it." Well, cuz also it's like I'm on, you know, I'm on some meds.

like I'm on, you know, I'm on some meds. like I'm on, you know, I'm on some meds. And we we know he has been very open And we we know he has been very open And we we know he has been very open about like, "Oh, she has these mental about like, "Oh, she has these mental about like, "Oh, she has these mental health struggles." I'm sure she was too. health struggles." I'm sure she was too. health struggles." I'm sure she was too. And, And, And, >> you know, we we all know she had been >> you know, we we all know she had been >> you know, we we all know she had been committed by him before. And so you kind committed by him before. And so you kind committed by him before. And so you kind of think and I think they do this of think and I think they do this of think and I think they do this strategically in the documentary. You strategically in the documentary. You strategically in the documentary. You like think you're like, "Oh, it must be like think you're like, "Oh, it must be like think you're like, "Oh, it must be had to do with all that. I don't know had to do with all that. I don't know had to do with all that. I don't know what I don't know what medications at what I don't know what medications at what I don't know what medications at some point in time like some of the some point in time like some of the some point in time like some of the medications like she's concerned about medications like she's concerned about medications like she's concerned about weight gain and like she's feeling weight gain and like she's feeling weight gain and like she's feeling self-conscious because of some of the self-conscious because of some of the self-conscious because of some of the medication she's on." You're like, "Oh, medication she's on." You're like, "Oh, medication she's on." You're like, "Oh, okay." And then you see her lose her okay." And then you see her lose her okay." And then you see her lose her voice and then someone that was on the voice and then someone that was on the voice and then someone that was on the team with her and one of her close team with her and one of her close team with her and one of her close friends was like all of a sudden like friends was like all of a sudden like friends was like all of a sudden like her range was gone. Like when her voice her range was gone. Like when her voice her range was gone. Like when her voice came back, it was like she had a came back, it was like she had a came back, it was like she had a completely different voice. And I was completely different voice. And I was completely different voice. And I was like, like I I know like when I'm sick, like, like I I know like when I'm sick, like, like I I know like when I'm sick, like my voice can change and I can lose like my voice can change and I can lose like my voice can change and I can lose like especially when I was singing a like especially when I was singing a like especially when I was singing a lot, like I could lose like a couple of lot, like I could lose like a couple of lot, like I could lose like a couple of like high notes or low notes, whatever. like high notes or low notes, whatever. like high notes or low notes, whatever. Um, no, she lost her range cuz she was Um, no, she lost her range cuz she was Um, no, she lost her range cuz she was taking testosterone and her voice was taking testosterone and her voice was taking testosterone and her voice was like physically lowering from taking like physically lowering from taking like physically lowering from taking testosterone because he wanted her to testosterone because he wanted her to testosterone because he wanted her to take testosterone so she could keep up take testosterone so she could keep up take testosterone so she could keep up with him sexually.

with him sexually. with him sexually. >> Him. I like I this is the point where I >> Him. I like I this is the point where I >> Him. I like I this is the point where I was like I mean I I hated him throughout was like I mean I I hated him throughout was like I mean I I hated him throughout but I was like you got to be like the but I was like you got to be like the but I was like you got to be like the abuse she she at some point is like I am abuse she she at some point is like I am abuse she she at some point is like I am physically, sexually, emotionally, physically, sexually, emotionally, physically, sexually, emotionally, financial like all this type of abuse financial like all this type of abuse financial like all this type of abuse and I I I think it gets lumped into and I I I think it gets lumped into and I I I think it gets lumped into physically but the medical abuse. physically but the medical abuse. physically but the medical abuse. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The way that the medical system was used >> The way that the medical system was used >> The way that the medical system was used they talk about him like withholding her they talk about him like withholding her they talk about him like withholding her meds. I just want to say like he was meds. I just want to say like he was meds. I just want to say like he was it's it's mentioned early when they talk it's it's mentioned early when they talk it's it's mentioned early when they talk about her initial diagnosis but like he about her initial diagnosis but like he about her initial diagnosis but like he like writes to her and you see like a like writes to her and you see like a like writes to her and you see like a snippet of that like email or letter or snippet of that like email or letter or snippet of that like email or letter or whatever where he's like you know this whatever where he's like you know this whatever where he's like you know this is a lot for me to bear too you know is a lot for me to bear too you know is a lot for me to bear too you know like I am now responsible like I am now responsible like I am now responsible >> burden for the next 50 to 60 years >> burden for the next 50 to 60 years >> burden for the next 50 to 60 years >> I'm responsible for like making sure you >> I'm responsible for like making sure you >> I'm responsible for like making sure you take your meds and like take your meds and like take your meds and like >> I didn't ask you >> I didn't ask you >> I didn't ask you >> didn't ask you to do that but it seems >> didn't ask you to do that but it seems >> didn't ask you to do that but it seems like you're making that your job like you're making that your job like you're making that your job >> and like in making that him his job he >> and like in making that him his job he >> and like in making that him his job he als also uses it as another tool of als also uses it as another tool of als also uses it as another tool of manipulation and coercion. And the fact manipulation and coercion. And the fact manipulation and coercion. And the fact that it's like like if it's going to be that it's like like if it's going to be that it's like like if it's going to be his job, he's going to make it work for his job, he's going to make it work for his job, he's going to make it work for him, too.

him, too. him, too. So, she could do it every day. How how So, she could do it every day. How how So, she could do it every day. How how many years was she with him? Right? So, many years was she with him? Right? So, many years was she with him? Right? So, now he's injecting her with hormones. now he's injecting her with hormones. now he's injecting her with hormones. And this is the point I we skipped this And this is the point I we skipped this And this is the point I we skipped this early on cuz they make make a light early on cuz they make make a light early on cuz they make make a light mention of it. So, not only is he mention of it. So, not only is he mention of it. So, not only is he forcing her to do this, forcing her to do this, forcing her to do this, when he makes a parody song about her when he makes a parody song about her when he makes a parody song about her losing her voice. losing her voice. losing her voice. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I mean, all the parodies were honestly >> I mean, all the parodies were honestly >> I mean, all the parodies were honestly like incredibly cringe, but that one was like incredibly cringe, but that one was like incredibly cringe, but that one was especially horrific. especially horrific. especially horrific. >> Especially when you like realize that >> Especially when you like realize that >> Especially when you like realize that it's not like she's doing it. Like, it's it's not like she's doing it. Like, it's it's not like she's doing it. Like, it's not like she wanted to do like you force not like she wanted to do like you force not like she wanted to do like you force her to do this thing that she doesn't her to do this thing that she doesn't her to do this thing that she doesn't want to do to do sexual act she doesn't want to do to do sexual act she doesn't want to do to do sexual act she doesn't want to do. want to do. want to do. >> Things that she doesn't want to do and >> Things that she doesn't want to do and >> Things that she doesn't want to do and then makes her sing about something she then makes her sing about something she then makes her sing about something she doesn't want to do. doesn't want to do. doesn't want to do. >> And Yeah. And then you have to like joke >> And Yeah. And then you have to like joke >> And Yeah. And then you have to like joke about it because she can't like I that about it because she can't like I that about it because she can't like I that whole parody song thing was so weird. whole parody song thing was so weird. whole parody song thing was so weird. And don't worry, it comes back again. And don't worry, it comes back again. And don't worry, it comes back again. >> Good, good, good. Awesome. >> Good, good, good. Awesome. >> Good, good, good. Awesome. >> So, this brings me to text message gate, >> So, this brings me to text message gate, >> So, this brings me to text message gate, which is which is where [laughter] which which is which is where [laughter] which which is which is where [laughter] which is where I got dropped in initially at is where I got dropped in initially at is where I got dropped in initially at 9:26 p.m. with a text message, 9:26 p.m. with a text message, 9:26 p.m. with a text message, >> which I have extra stories about. So, >> which I have extra stories about. So, >> which I have extra stories about. So, there is this woman who is a pastor at there is this woman who is a pastor at there is this woman who is a pastor at their church as well. He got brought in their church as well. He got brought in their church as well. He got brought in when the first affair happened like with when the first affair happened like with when the first affair happened like with Micah, right? He like brings in this Micah, right? He like brings in this Micah, right? He like brings in this other pastor.

other pastor. other pastor. >> Good news. >> Good news. >> Good news. >> Yeah. The church needs stability. They >> Yeah. The church needs stability. They >> Yeah. The church needs stability. They need somebody who's just like need somebody who's just like need somebody who's just like >> like a seasoned pastor who's going to >> like a seasoned pastor who's going to >> like a seasoned pastor who's going to like help them weather the storm, like help them weather the storm, like help them weather the storm, >> usher them through these trying times. >> usher them through these trying times. >> usher them through these trying times. And so it seems like she's she's there And so it seems like she's she's there And so it seems like she's she's there for a while. for a while. for a while. Well, she one day is at home, but it Well, she one day is at home, but it Well, she one day is at home, but it sounds like she has like a work phone, a sounds like she has like a work phone, a sounds like she has like a work phone, a church phone, church phone, church phone, >> and out of nowhere sounds like this was >> and out of nowhere sounds like this was >> and out of nowhere sounds like this was not a normal thing. The work phone not a normal thing. The work phone not a normal thing. The work phone starts blowing up and she realizes she starts blowing up and she realizes she starts blowing up and she realizes she is is is seeing a text chain between JP seeing a text chain between JP seeing a text chain between JP and his best friend and his best friend and his best friend >> Mark. >> Mark. >> Mark. >> Mark Kaufman right >> Mark Kaufman right >> Mark Kaufman right now. Well, she's like JP is in bed with now. Well, she's like JP is in bed with now. Well, she's like JP is in bed with Micah at the time he's like I mean Micah at the time he's like I mean Micah at the time he's like I mean >> based on based on like >> based on based on like >> based on based on like >> based on the messages >> based on the messages >> based on the messages >> while he's instructing >> while he's instructing >> while he's instructing >> Mark to go like pick up this other young >> Mark to go like pick up this other young >> Mark to go like pick up this other young woman from the airport cuz apparently woman from the airport cuz apparently woman from the airport cuz apparently she is coming to see him which first she is coming to see him which first she is coming to see him which first introduce what is Mark's role like I introduce what is Mark's role like I introduce what is Mark's role like I mean we know he's his best friend he was mean we know he's his best friend he was mean we know he's his best friend he was his best man in the wedding his best man in the wedding his best man in the wedding >> right >> right >> right >> but I have a lot of questions about Mark >> but I have a lot of questions about Mark >> but I have a lot of questions about Mark his loyalty to JP what he's willing why his loyalty to JP what he's willing why his loyalty to JP what he's willing why he's willing to do this. He's someone he's willing to do this. He's someone he's willing to do this. He's someone I'm very interested in. But this is when I'm very interested in. But this is when I'm very interested in. But this is when the the other pastor realizes like, "Oh the the other pastor realizes like, "Oh the the other pastor realizes like, "Oh my god, this thing my god, this thing my god, this thing >> this is this thing that I thought had >> this is this thing that I thought had >> this is this thing that I thought had stopped, the reason I came in because it stopped, the reason I came in because it stopped, the reason I came in because it had stopped to fix things has never had stopped to fix things has never had stopped to fix things has never stopped."

stopped." stopped." >> Which I this is where I texted you. I >> Which I this is where I texted you. I >> Which I this is where I texted you. I was like, I will believe in God again if was like, I will believe in God again if was like, I will believe in God again if like all of his energy can be directed like all of his energy can be directed like all of his energy can be directed into like exposing dirty pastors because into like exposing dirty pastors because into like exposing dirty pastors because this is not the first time I've seen this is not the first time I've seen this is not the first time I've seen something weird like this happen. So, something weird like this happen. So, something weird like this happen. So, there are two other stories, one of them there are two other stories, one of them there are two other stories, one of them personal, and I don't know if you've personal, and I don't know if you've personal, and I don't know if you've ever heard the story. So, ever heard the story. So, ever heard the story. So, there is this episode of, and you know, there is this episode of, and you know, there is this episode of, and you know, I'm obsessed with uh the podcast I'm obsessed with uh the podcast I'm obsessed with uh the podcast Betrayal Weekly. Betrayal Weekly. Betrayal Weekly. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So, there is Oh, shoot. Hang on. I got >> So, there is Oh, shoot. Hang on. I got >> So, there is Oh, shoot. Hang on. I got to find her name. There's an episode to find her name. There's an episode to find her name. There's an episode that I'm obsessed with. that I'm obsessed with. that I'm obsessed with. >> I've listened to it like three times. >> I've listened to it like three times. >> I've listened to it like three times. Oh, Tracy is the episode from September Oh, Tracy is the episode from September Oh, Tracy is the episode from September of 2025. And her whole betrayal story is of 2025. And her whole betrayal story is of 2025. And her whole betrayal story is about this church in the South in like about this church in the South in like about this church in the South in like the '9s. And Tracy's a fake name. You the '9s. And Tracy's a fake name. You the '9s. And Tracy's a fake name. You don't get the real names, don't get the real names, don't get the real names, >> but it's I call it the angel Nathan >> but it's I call it the angel Nathan >> but it's I call it the angel Nathan story because her story has to do with story because her story has to do with story because her story has to do with basically like she finds out her husband basically like she finds out her husband basically like she finds out her husband who is the pastor was like having this who is the pastor was like having this who is the pastor was like having this affair because this anonymous angel affair because this anonymous angel affair because this anonymous angel Nathan starts sending people in the Nathan starts sending people in the Nathan starts sending people in the congregation like letters. And he starts congregation like letters. And he starts congregation like letters. And he starts out with the pastor's like, "You need to out with the pastor's like, "You need to out with the pastor's like, "You need to admit to this, like come clean to your admit to this, like come clean to your admit to this, like come clean to your congregation and like we're good.

congregation and like we're good. congregation and like we're good. Otherwise, I've got recordings of you Otherwise, I've got recordings of you Otherwise, I've got recordings of you and this other woman that I'm going to and this other woman that I'm going to and this other woman that I'm going to release and Angel Nathan does. So, like release and Angel Nathan does. So, like release and Angel Nathan does. So, like it's another one of these like how did it's another one of these like how did it's another one of these like how did we get this? This next one is less we get this? This next one is less we get this? This next one is less exposing pastors. exposing pastors. exposing pastors. >> I know. Yeah. I have so many thoughts on >> I know. Yeah. I have so many thoughts on >> I know. Yeah. I have so many thoughts on that. that. that. >> Less exposing pastors. And so, when my >> Less exposing pastors. And so, when my >> Less exposing pastors. And so, when my dad worked in a church in South dad worked in a church in South dad worked in a church in South Carolina, Carolina, Carolina, >> oh, interesting. >> oh, interesting. >> oh, interesting. >> Brief time in our life. We lived in >> Brief time in our life. We lived in >> Brief time in our life. We lived in South Carolina. my there was like this South Carolina. my there was like this South Carolina. my there was like this like freak thing where someone in the like freak thing where someone in the like freak thing where someone in the church was like talking bunch of [ __ ] church was like talking bunch of [ __ ] church was like talking bunch of [ __ ] about my dad but like the the uh about my dad but like the the uh about my dad but like the the uh >> like the phone lines got crossed or >> like the phone lines got crossed or >> like the phone lines got crossed or something something something >> the machine the voicemail machine >> the machine the voicemail machine >> the machine the voicemail machine started recording and like it recorded started recording and like it recorded started recording and like it recorded the whole thing so I don't know what the whole thing so I don't know what the whole thing so I don't know what like magical stuff is going on but there like magical stuff is going on but there like magical stuff is going on but there is someone is someone is someone >> it's like the opposite it's [laughter] >> it's like the opposite it's [laughter] >> it's like the opposite it's [laughter] like the opposite of you messing like the opposite of you messing like the opposite of you messing everything tech up like God is here to everything tech up like God is here to everything tech up like God is here to like actually make tech work weirdly like actually make tech work weirdly like actually make tech work weirdly >> he's like not in my house no no no no so >> he's like not in my house no no no no so >> he's like not in my house no no no no so I am like all for this. But so this is I am like all for this. But so this is I am like all for this. But so this is when she this is when the other pastor when she this is when the other pastor when she this is when the other pastor finds out like, "Oh, you are full of finds out like, "Oh, you are full of finds out like, "Oh, you are full of [ __ ] Like you've done a great job at [ __ ] Like you've done a great job at [ __ ] Like you've done a great job at putting on this show, making people putting on this show, making people putting on this show, making people think that you are sincere and none of think that you are sincere and none of think that you are sincere and none of it has been real. She can like see it has been real. She can like see it has been real. She can like see through the mess." M through the mess." M through the mess." M >> and I don't know what's unclear is like >> and I don't know what's unclear is like >> and I don't know what's unclear is like how many affairs how many affairs how many affairs he's had over the years he's had over the years he's had over the years >> cuz it's not just one or two based on >> cuz it's not just one or two based on >> cuz it's not just one or two based on >> every implication in the entire >> every implication in the entire >> every implication in the entire documentary.

documentary. documentary. >> Yes. And keep touching my little my cute >> Yes. And keep touching my little my cute >> Yes. And keep touching my little my cute little papers back here. They're little papers back here. They're little papers back here. They're starting to scare me. starting to scare me. starting to scare me. >> It seems like there is a lot happening. >> It seems like there is a lot happening. >> It seems like there is a lot happening. And this is just this is like And this is just this is like And this is just this is like >> it's not like at first I think it's easy >> it's not like at first I think it's easy >> it's not like at first I think it's easy to believe like oh he's got these two to believe like oh he's got these two to believe like oh he's got these two lives that are conflicting right he's lives that are conflicting right he's lives that are conflicting right he's he's as he says struggling with lust or he's as he says struggling with lust or he's as he says struggling with lust or whatever and what you I think see as you whatever and what you I think see as you whatever and what you I think see as you get into episode two and then episode get into episode two and then episode get into episode two and then episode three three three >> is it really feels like this entire >> is it really feels like this entire >> is it really feels like this entire church it's not a guy a guy who's church it's not a guy a guy who's church it's not a guy a guy who's conflicted the church and the conflicted the church and the conflicted the church and the organization all of that feels like it organization all of that feels like it organization all of that feels like it is made to allow him to just be a is made to allow him to just be a is made to allow him to just be a deviant person. I was going to say cuz deviant person. I was going to say cuz deviant person. I was going to say cuz this is the part that like I had made this is the part that like I had made this is the part that like I had made some notes on because the pastor who some notes on because the pastor who some notes on because the pastor who like gets this magical mystical like gets this magical mystical like gets this magical mystical spiritual sink spiritual sink spiritual sink >> magical [laughter] uh she does what I think anybody in that uh she does what I think anybody in that position would do and she calls the position would do and she calls the position would do and she calls the elders of the church which like elders of the church which like elders of the church which like >> the elders would be like in theory not >> the elders would be like in theory not >> the elders would be like in theory not necessarily a governing body but like a necessarily a governing body but like a necessarily a governing body but like a a body of of people in the church who a body of of people in the church who a body of of people in the church who are like represent the people of the are like represent the people of the are like represent the people of the church.

church. church. >> Yes. rep. And I think she says like they >> Yes. rep. And I think she says like they >> Yes. rep. And I think she says like they are the they are representing the are the they are representing the are the they are representing the congregation. Like they are the ones who congregation. Like they are the ones who congregation. Like they are the ones who like in in churches that I've been in like in in churches that I've been in like in in churches that I've been in like they've been the ones who have been like they've been the ones who have been like they've been the ones who have been like called to like, hey, like we think like called to like, hey, like we think like called to like, hey, like we think this pastor should step down. We're this pastor should step down. We're this pastor should step down. We're going to have like a congregational vote going to have like a congregational vote going to have like a congregational vote about it or whatever. And like they're about it or whatever. And like they're about it or whatever. And like they're the ones who kind of act in a way as a the ones who kind of act in a way as a the ones who kind of act in a way as a governing body. Different churches are governing body. Different churches are governing body. Different churches are set up different ways. Denominations set up different ways. Denominations set up different ways. Denominations specifically have like boards and actual specifically have like boards and actual specifically have like boards and actual governing bodies. Non-denominational. governing bodies. Non-denominational. governing bodies. Non-denominational. Again, kind of a free-for-all. But like Again, kind of a free-for-all. But like Again, kind of a free-for-all. But like >> I know I well I was like wait it's not >> I know I well I was like wait it's not >> I know I well I was like wait it's not just one guy like I thought just one guy like I thought just one guy like I thought >> we like one of >> we like one of >> we like one of >> my version of church didn't have a >> my version of church didn't have a >> my version of church didn't have a governing well I mean governing well I mean governing well I mean >> one of our churches had like a board but >> one of our churches had like a board but >> one of our churches had like a board but it was all it was like all people it was all it was like all people it was all it was like all people colluding with each other to a certain colluding with each other to a certain colluding with each other to a certain extent until they stopped anyway. Um but extent until they stopped anyway. Um but extent until they stopped anyway. Um but this one like these elders while they this one like these elders while they this one like these elders while they were like representatives of the were like representatives of the were like representatives of the congregation were not a governing body congregation were not a governing body congregation were not a governing body in that they had zero power. in that they had zero power. in that they had zero power. >> Mhm. They were just like, >> Mhm. They were just like, >> Mhm. They were just like, >> "For show >> "For show >> "For show >> essentially like like like not even to >> essentially like like like not even to >> essentially like like like not even to support the pastor, just to make it look support the pastor, just to make it look support the pastor, just to make it look like he had a governing body almost, like he had a governing body almost, like he had a governing body almost, >> right? It's to like it's to make it's >> right? It's to like it's to make it's >> right? It's to like it's to make it's why it's like it's bananas to me." And why it's like it's bananas to me." And why it's like it's bananas to me." And now we're getting into like now we're getting into like now we're getting into like >> financials and stuff, but like >> financials and stuff, but like >> financials and stuff, but like >> uh like when I started Season of >> uh like when I started Season of >> uh like when I started Season of Justice, so like the nonprofit has to Justice, so like the nonprofit has to Justice, so like the nonprofit has to submit its financials like every year to submit its financials like every year to submit its financials like every year to be a nonprofit. Like you have to know be a nonprofit. Like you have to know be a nonprofit. Like you have to know where your money is coming from, exactly where your money is coming from, exactly where your money is coming from, exactly where it's going to you, like like how where it's going to you, like like how where it's going to you, like like how are you using your funds? How much how are you using your funds? How much how are you using your funds? How much how much of the funds are just sitting much of the funds are just sitting much of the funds are just sitting there? Who's getting paid what?

there? Who's getting paid what? there? Who's getting paid what? >> What are your expenses? >> What are your expenses? >> What are your expenses? >> All of that is known. It is wild to me >> All of that is known. It is wild to me >> All of that is known. It is wild to me that is not necessary for churches. Mhm. that is not necessary for churches. Mhm. that is not necessary for churches. Mhm. >> As a congregant who is tithing, I assume >> As a congregant who is tithing, I assume >> As a congregant who is tithing, I assume like I giving time the way they use like I giving time the way they use like I giving time the way they use volunteers, I would want to know and I I volunteers, I would want to know and I I volunteers, I would want to know and I I don't know why more people don't kind of don't know why more people don't kind of don't know why more people don't kind of demand this of their churches, demand this of their churches, demand this of their churches, especially these mega churches. Where's especially these mega churches. Where's especially these mega churches. Where's it going? I would like to as vaguely as it going? I would like to as vaguely as it going? I would like to as vaguely as possible remind you that the first time possible remind you that the first time possible remind you that the first time our church went through something major, our church went through something major, our church went through something major, it was because people didn't want those it was because people didn't want those it was because people didn't want those things to come to light. Oh, wait. I things to come to light. Oh, wait. I things to come to light. Oh, wait. I didn't realize [laughter] that. didn't realize [laughter] that. didn't realize [laughter] that. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Yeah. Like people were >> Yeah. Like people were >> Yeah. Like people were a governing body was saying that the a governing body was saying that the a governing body was saying that the church essentially was not functional at church essentially was not functional at church essentially was not functional at the size that it was for like the space the size that it was for like the space the size that it was for like the space that it was in and like the staff that that it was in and like the staff that that it was in and like the staff that it had which like obviously affects you it had which like obviously affects you it had which like obviously affects you [laughter] quite a lot [laughter] quite a lot [laughter] quite a lot >> um or would have affected you quite a >> um or would have affected you quite a >> um or would have affected you quite a lot. And when they asked like okay like lot. And when they asked like okay like lot. And when they asked like okay like what does that number need to be? like what does that number need to be? like what does that number need to be? like can we have like a financial campaign can we have like a financial campaign can we have like a financial campaign where we can tell the members where we where we can tell the members where we where we can tell the members where we are and like let them know that this is are and like let them know that this is are and like let them know that this is the state that the church is in. Um that the state that the church is in. Um that the state that the church is in. Um that was not was not was not something that everyone was comfortable something that everyone was comfortable something that everyone was comfortable no being publicized.

no being publicized. no being publicized. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Um >> Um >> Um there was a lot of other things that there was a lot of other things that there was a lot of other things that went into that, [laughter] went into that, [laughter] went into that, [laughter] >> but like that was like uh something that >> but like that was like uh something that >> but like that was like uh something that contributed to like why the pastor that contributed to like why the pastor that contributed to like why the pastor that we had at the time no longer was at the we had at the time no longer was at the we had at the time no longer was at the church. church. church. And like we can talk about that more And like we can talk about that more And like we can talk about that more with like actual names and stuff, but with like actual names and stuff, but with like actual names and stuff, but like not on mic. [laughter] [gasps] [gasps] >> I mean, I knew it was about money and >> I mean, I knew it was about money and >> I mean, I knew it was about money and stuff, but like I thought it was uh stuff, but like I thought it was uh stuff, but like I thought it was uh Yeah. Okay. Follow follow-up Yeah. Okay. Follow follow-up Yeah. Okay. Follow follow-up conversations. conversations. conversations. >> Yeah. So, like off mic, but uh that's >> Yeah. So, like off mic, but uh that's >> Yeah. So, like off mic, but uh that's kind of like what was I was like so kind of like what was I was like so kind of like what was I was like so surprised and frustrated and not surprised and frustrated and not surprised and frustrated and not surprised at all about when she did go surprised at all about when she did go surprised at all about when she did go to the elders and was like, "Hey, to the elders and was like, "Hey, to the elders and was like, "Hey, >> this guy's going off. >> this guy's going off. >> this guy's going off. >> Fix it." And they're like, "We can't do >> Fix it." And they're like, "We can't do >> Fix it." And they're like, "We can't do anything. anything. anything. >> Hands are tied." >> Hands are tied." >> Hands are tied." >> Yeah. Sorry. Too bad. So sad. >> Yeah. Sorry. Too bad. So sad. >> Yeah. Sorry. Too bad. So sad. >> Now >> Now >> Now then we So we get into this idea that then we So we get into this idea that then we So we get into this idea that like, okay, she's like, "Well, I'm out." like, okay, she's like, "Well, I'm out." like, okay, she's like, "Well, I'm out." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Church is still his, still yours. What >> Church is still his, still yours. What >> Church is still his, still yours. What is he doing with this church? What is he is he doing with this church? What is he is he doing with this church? What is he What is he doing as far as like affairs What is he doing as far as like affairs What is he doing as far as like affairs go? Now, I don't know. We have no idea go? Now, I don't know. We have no idea go? Now, I don't know. We have no idea who this young woman was who was coming who this young woman was who was coming who this young woman was who was coming into town to meet him because she's into town to meet him because she's into town to meet him because she's coming from an airport. I assume it is coming from an airport. I assume it is coming from an airport. I assume it is not.

not. not. >> She's not from around here. >> She's not from around here. >> She's not from around here. >> Susie Skinner, who we will talk about >> Susie Skinner, who we will talk about >> Susie Skinner, who we will talk about next. next. next. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, Susie Skinner is his next alleged >> So, Susie Skinner is his next alleged >> So, Susie Skinner is his next alleged affair. affair. affair. >> Susie, >> Susie, >> Susie, of course, married of course, married of course, married >> and in the congregation. >> and in the congregation. >> and in the congregation. >> And in the congregation, she starts >> And in the congregation, she starts >> And in the congregation, she starts going to the church. It doesn't sound going to the church. It doesn't sound going to the church. It doesn't sound like her husband was really going to the like her husband was really going to the like her husband was really going to the church. church. church. I don't know how much autonomy her husband had. autonomy her husband had. >> Right. So they they met because she was >> Right. So they they met because she was >> Right. So they they met because she was like his like he was in physical therapy like his like he was in physical therapy like his like he was in physical therapy and she met and she met and she met >> he had had like an accident. Yeah. >> he had had like an accident. Yeah. >> he had had like an accident. Yeah. >> Where he had lost a lot of mobility. >> Where he had lost a lot of mobility. >> Where he had lost a lot of mobility. >> Wheelchair bound. >> Wheelchair bound. >> Wheelchair bound. >> Wheelchair bound. He >> Wheelchair bound. He >> Wheelchair bound. He >> hired her or they met in physical >> hired her or they met in physical >> hired her or they met in physical therapy or she was like helping him in therapy or she was like helping him in therapy or she was like helping him in some way and they hit it off and got some way and they hit it off and got some way and they hit it off and got married. married. married. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, she decides to start going to this So, she decides to start going to this So, she decides to start going to this church. And again, it might be one of church. And again, it might be one of church. And again, it might be one of those things where he would like come those things where he would like come those things where he would like come sometimes, whatever, but seems like she sometimes, whatever, but seems like she sometimes, whatever, but seems like she was really, really involved. was really, really involved. was really, really involved. >> She was really involved. Yeah. >> She was really involved. Yeah. >> She was really involved. Yeah. >> And this is the affair like Micah >> And this is the affair like Micah >> And this is the affair like Micah clearly finds out about this and gives clearly finds out about this and gives clearly finds out about this and gives JP multiple ultimatums, multiple chances JP multiple ultimatums, multiple chances JP multiple ultimatums, multiple chances to end it, which she's telling people he to end it, which she's telling people he to end it, which she's telling people he does not. And I don't think they were does not. And I don't think they were does not. And I don't think they were being secretive about it because right being secretive about it because right being secretive about it because right like uh Micah's brother ends up catching like uh Micah's brother ends up catching like uh Micah's brother ends up catching them. He says in the documentary where them. He says in the documentary where them. He says in the documentary where they're like holding hands and he's like they're like holding hands and he's like they're like holding hands and he's like like he like confronts them like he like confronts them like he like confronts them >> and because they're not being secretive >> and because they're not being secretive >> and because they're not being secretive somehow it gets back to Susie Skinner's somehow it gets back to Susie Skinner's somehow it gets back to Susie Skinner's husband Chris husband Chris husband Chris >> and he also like >> and he also like >> and he also like >> again they're not being secretive. What

>> again they're not being secretive. What >> again they're not being secretive. What what he says I think she in the what he says I think she in the what he says I think she in the documentary is that she thinks that the documentary is that she thinks that the documentary is that she thinks that the pastor has a crush on her. So I don't pastor has a crush on her. So I don't pastor has a crush on her. So I don't know how what she's framing. general know how what she's framing. general know how what she's framing. general what he has experienced. what he has experienced. what he has experienced. >> But at the same time, Chris's sister is >> But at the same time, Chris's sister is >> But at the same time, Chris's sister is in the documentary and she's like, he's in the documentary and she's like, he's in the documentary and she's like, he's feeling like his care is like, feeling like his care is like, feeling like his care is like, >> oh yeah, >> oh yeah, >> oh yeah, >> is like lacking in >> is like lacking in >> is like lacking in >> he's not getting showered as much. Like >> he's not getting showered as much. Like >> he's not getting showered as much. Like Susie is clearly distracted by something Susie is clearly distracted by something Susie is clearly distracted by something at that time. And so he makes it a point at that time. And so he makes it a point at that time. And so he makes it a point to go to the church one Sunday, confront to go to the church one Sunday, confront to go to the church one Sunday, confront the pastor, basically like, "Leave my the pastor, basically like, "Leave my the pastor, basically like, "Leave my wife alone." Mhm. wife alone." Mhm. wife alone." Mhm. >> And I don't know, it doesn't say exactly >> And I don't know, it doesn't say exactly >> And I don't know, it doesn't say exactly how long, but like weeks, a month, how long, but like weeks, a month, how long, but like weeks, a month, >> and we also don't know what happened >> and we also don't know what happened >> and we also don't know what happened when he went to the church. when he went to the church. when he went to the church. >> We get nothing about that. >> We get nothing about that. >> We get nothing about that. >> We just know that he his plan was to go >> We just know that he his plan was to go >> We just know that he his plan was to go to the church and confront JP, to the church and confront JP, to the church and confront JP, >> which I have a feeling the only people >> which I have a feeling the only people >> which I have a feeling the only people who who who >> in that room are >> in that room are >> in that room are >> JP, him if they allowed their wives. >> JP, him if they allowed their wives. >> JP, him if they allowed their wives. Micah's no longer here to talk about it Micah's no longer here to talk about it Micah's no longer here to talk about it and Susie isn't going to talk about it and Susie isn't going to talk about it and Susie isn't going to talk about it for reasons we'll get to. Anyway, so we for reasons we'll get to. Anyway, so we for reasons we'll get to. Anyway, so we know that Chris at least has intentions know that Chris at least has intentions know that Chris at least has intentions to go confront JP. And at some point in to go confront JP. And at some point in to go confront JP. And at some point in time after he states that intention, time after he states that intention, time after he states that intention, whether he makes it to church, talk to whether he makes it to church, talk to whether he makes it to church, talk to him, whether what that conversation is, him, whether what that conversation is, him, whether what that conversation is, regardless, after that point, regardless, after that point, regardless, after that point, he dies. How does he die?

he dies. How does he die? he dies. How does he die? He drowns at the bottom of his apartment He drowns at the bottom of his apartment He drowns at the bottom of his apartment complex or like community swimming pool. complex or like community swimming pool. complex or like community swimming pool. He's in his wheelchair and He's in his wheelchair and He's in his wheelchair and it goes in by some accident, by some it goes in by some accident, by some it goes in by some accident, by some intention. intention. intention. It the foul play is not suspected It the foul play is not suspected It the foul play is not suspected >> in his case. >> in his case. >> in his case. But this was the second text message I But this was the second text message I But this was the second text message I sent you. sent you. sent you. >> Second text message you sent us. >> Second text message you sent us. >> Second text message you sent us. >> Well, I said JP was first at the scene. >> Well, I said JP was first at the scene. >> Well, I said JP was first at the scene. The first people to show up. The first people to show up. The first people to show up. >> The first people that Susie called, >> The first people that Susie called, >> The first people that Susie called, >> JP and Micah together. >> JP and Micah together. >> JP and Micah together. >> Yeah. But they show up before Chris's >> Yeah. But they show up before Chris's >> Yeah. But they show up before Chris's family has any idea family has any idea family has any idea >> that he died, >> that he died, >> that he died, >> which I I get I it's the pastor of your >> which I I get I it's the pastor of your >> which I I get I it's the pastor of your church. That's what I And that's like church. That's what I And that's like church. That's what I And that's like like that's the thing that I like kind like that's the thing that I like kind like that's the thing that I like kind of buted up against once I watched it of buted up against once I watched it of buted up against once I watched it reading your text was like I don't not reading your text was like I don't not reading your text was like I don't not get it in that environment where like I get it in that environment where like I get it in that environment where like I would a thousand% still call my family would a thousand% still call my family would a thousand% still call my family but I think my family's pastor someone but I think my family's pastor someone but I think my family's pastor someone of comfort, someone of like outside the of comfort, someone of like outside the of comfort, someone of like outside the circle but close enough for like circle but close enough for like circle but close enough for like guidance. But I don't know if guidance. But I don't know if guidance. But I don't know if >> the one but like the the the pastor that >> the one but like the the the pastor that >> the one but like the the the pastor that your husband just confronted because your husband just confronted because your husband just confronted because >> that's where I get hung up on it because >> that's where I get hung up on it because >> that's where I get hung up on it because that's different.

that's different. that's different. Yeah, this is where when um Mads first Yeah, this is where when um Mads first Yeah, this is where when um Mads first was like, "Hey, I think maybe we should was like, "Hey, I think maybe we should was like, "Hey, I think maybe we should cover this case because I'll give every cover this case because I'll give every cover this case because I'll give every everyone I think already knows that, everyone I think already knows that, everyone I think already knows that, spoiler alert, in episode three, Susie spoiler alert, in episode three, Susie spoiler alert, in episode three, Susie Skinner and JP get married." Skinner and JP get married." Skinner and JP get married." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I was like, "So, you're telling me >> Um I was like, "So, you're telling me >> Um I was like, "So, you're telling me that her husband dies and his wife die that her husband dies and his wife die that her husband dies and his wife die and now they're married and and and now they're married and and and now they're married and and >> everyone's okay with it?" >> everyone's okay with it?" >> everyone's okay with it?" >> And Mad's like, >> And Mad's like, >> And Mad's like, >> she's like, "You got it, girl." >> she's like, "You got it, girl." >> she's like, "You got it, girl." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] It's like, okay, okay. It's like, okay, okay. It's like, okay, okay. So, we kind of get they touch on it so So, we kind of get they touch on it so So, we kind of get they touch on it so briefly and I I had been reading some briefly and I I had been reading some briefly and I I had been reading some articles and stuff like that dug into articles and stuff like that dug into articles and stuff like that dug into his death a little bit and it was like I his death a little bit and it was like I his death a little bit and it was like I guess he had been like supposedly guess he had been like supposedly guess he had been like supposedly allegedly making complaints to the allegedly making complaints to the allegedly making complaints to the community about like there not being community about like there not being community about like there not being like proper access for um people like in like proper access for um people like in like proper access for um people like in wheelchairs to be able to get to the wheelchairs to be able to get to the wheelchairs to be able to get to the pool. Why the pool? Why that way? pool. Why the pool? Why that way? pool. Why the pool? Why that way? Was it an accident? Was it intentional Was it an accident? Was it intentional Was it an accident? Was it intentional because he's not being taken care of? He because he's not being taken care of? He because he's not being taken care of? He feels like the one thing he has is le feels like the one thing he has is le feels like the one thing he has is le like like like >> no one knows as far as I know. It's not >> no one knows as far as I know. It's not >> no one knows as far as I know. It's not like I don't believe he left a note or like I don't believe he left a note or like I don't believe he left a note or told anyone.

told anyone. told anyone. >> So, we're left to just >> So, we're left to just >> So, we're left to just >> There's that. >> There's that. >> There's that. >> It's just another strange thing in a >> It's just another strange thing in a >> It's just another strange thing in a case full of strange things. The strangest thing of all though was The strangest thing of all though was the like service about him which I don't the like service about him which I don't the like service about him which I don't know if it happened before or after he know if it happened before or after he know if it happened before or after he died. died. died. >> Right. So it's it's kind of confusing in >> Right. So it's it's kind of confusing in >> Right. So it's it's kind of confusing in the documentary cuz they cut it really the documentary cuz they cut it really the documentary cuz they cut it really close to the funeral service for Chris. close to the funeral service for Chris. close to the funeral service for Chris. Yeah. Like it's not part of it. This the Yeah. Like it's not part of it. This the Yeah. Like it's not part of it. This the stage is completely different. He's stage is completely different. He's stage is completely different. He's wearing a different outfit. But wearing a different outfit. But wearing a different outfit. But >> I think it was a different service. And >> I think it was a different service. And >> I think it was a different service. And I don't know if it again before. I don't know if it again before. I don't know if it again before. >> But we don't know when it was. >> But we don't know when it was. >> But we don't know when it was. >> Yeah. You want to say you want to see >> Yeah. You want to say you want to see >> Yeah. You want to say you want to see what he says? I don't have the direct what he says? I don't have the direct what he says? I don't have the direct quote. I'm sure you do. I just have hot quote. I'm sure you do. I just have hot quote. I'm sure you do. I just have hot mama quote on my notebook. mama quote on my notebook. mama quote on my notebook. >> Yeah. If this guy can get this hot mama >> Yeah. If this guy can get this hot mama >> Yeah. If this guy can get this hot mama in a wheelchair, you have no excuse. I in a wheelchair, you have no excuse. I in a wheelchair, you have no excuse. I literally wrote literally wrote literally wrote >> what >> what >> what >> what >> what >> what like like I think that's the moment when like like I think that's the moment when like like I think that's the moment when me and Alyssa I literally just like me and Alyssa I literally just like me and Alyssa I literally just like paused and I was like let's just sit paused and I was like let's just sit paused and I was like let's just sit with that for a minute. with that for a minute. with that for a minute. >> What?

>> What? >> What? Maybe that was the moment that he was Maybe that was the moment that he was Maybe that was the moment that he was like I think this guy might be coming like I think this guy might be coming like I think this guy might be coming for my wife. [laughter] Like especially for my wife. [laughter] Like especially for my wife. [laughter] Like especially if that again we don't know when that if that again we don't know when that if that again we don't know when that happened in time especially if that happened in time especially if that happened in time especially if that happened prior to Chris's death. happened prior to Chris's death. happened prior to Chris's death. >> So also like you don't want people to be >> So also like you don't want people to be >> So also like you don't want people to be self-deprecating but like you're being a self-deprecating but like you're being a self-deprecating but like you're being a super Yes. super Yes. super Yes. >> a super I can't I >> a super I can't I >> a super I can't I so so so I don't think he's hiding anything. Like I don't think he's hiding anything. Like I don't think he's hiding anything. Like again, if you're looking for it, I think again, if you're looking for it, I think again, if you're looking for it, I think that it's that it's that it's >> Isaac [laughter] that can see. >> Isaac [laughter] that can see. >> Isaac [laughter] that can see. >> I think it's pretty obvious what's going >> I think it's pretty obvious what's going >> I think it's pretty obvious what's going on. And so this is when Micah gives him on. And so this is when Micah gives him on. And so this is when Micah gives him yet another ultimatum, but she doesn't yet another ultimatum, but she doesn't yet another ultimatum, but she doesn't leave. She does this contract, which I leave. She does this contract, which I leave. She does this contract, which I find heartbreaking find heartbreaking find heartbreaking >> because >> because >> because this happens all the time. I've seen this happens all the time. I've seen this happens all the time. I've seen this happen this happen this happen >> and I don't really understand it. I >> and I don't really understand it. I >> and I don't really understand it. I think like I so she basically says like think like I so she basically says like think like I so she basically says like makes this list where it's like hey if makes this list where it's like hey if makes this list where it's like hey if any of this stuff happens any of this stuff happens any of this stuff happens >> I'm out.

>> I'm out. >> I'm out. >> I'm out. I know she told him that >> I'm out. I know she told him that >> I'm out. I know she told him that before. If you do it again I'm out. It's before. If you do it again I'm out. It's before. If you do it again I'm out. It's the line gets crossed. The line gets the line gets crossed. The line gets the line gets crossed. The line gets crossed. crossed. crossed. >> Well I mean honestly the expectation is >> Well I mean honestly the expectation is >> Well I mean honestly the expectation is if you are in a committed relationship if you are in a committed relationship if you are in a committed relationship with someone and you have like shared with someone and you have like shared with someone and you have like shared goals and outcomes for the relationship goals and outcomes for the relationship goals and outcomes for the relationship none of that needs to be set. none of that needs to be set. none of that needs to be set. >> Yes. That's just the expectation and >> Yes. That's just the expectation and >> Yes. That's just the expectation and like the social contract between two like the social contract between two like the social contract between two people who love each other. people who love each other. people who love each other. >> But it's like this list of five things >> But it's like this list of five things >> But it's like this list of five things that's like if any of this happens again that's like if any of this happens again that's like if any of this happens again like the first thing is like you know like the first thing is like you know like the first thing is like you know she gets the house. Um he promises to go she gets the house. Um he promises to go she gets the house. Um he promises to go on marriage retreats. They're going to on marriage retreats. They're going to on marriage retreats. They're going to do counseling weekly. He's going to do counseling weekly. He's going to do counseling weekly. He's going to honor her in any way with anything any honor her in any way with anything any honor her in any way with anything any time. It says he'd even be willing to time. It says he'd even be willing to time. It says he'd even be willing to adopt a kid if that's what she wants. adopt a kid if that's what she wants. adopt a kid if that's what she wants. Smiley face. Smiley face. Smiley face. >> I saw that. The the thing I the thing I >> I saw that. The the thing I the thing I >> I saw that. The the thing I the thing I can appreciate about what she was can appreciate about what she was can appreciate about what she was probably trying to do is probably trying to do is probably trying to do is one of the ways she was being controlled one of the ways she was being controlled one of the ways she was being controlled was financially. was financially. was financially. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> If she left as a pastor's wife who had >> If she left as a pastor's wife who had >> If she left as a pastor's wife who had been in the church since she was 18, who been in the church since she was 18, who been in the church since she was 18, who had no career outside of the church, she had no career outside of the church, she had no career outside of the church, she was financially destroyed. She had was financially destroyed. She had was financially destroyed. She had nothing.

nothing. nothing. >> So this point number one where it's like >> So this point number one where it's like >> So this point number one where it's like I want something written down. I mean, I want something written down. I mean, I want something written down. I mean, this document wouldn't have counted, but this document wouldn't have counted, but this document wouldn't have counted, but like like like >> I think she felt this was some kind of >> I think she felt this was some kind of >> I think she felt this was some kind of protection for her. And so, like, I am protection for her. And so, like, I am protection for her. And so, like, I am sympathetic to that sympathetic to that sympathetic to that >> cuz I I think part of me at first when I >> cuz I I think part of me at first when I >> cuz I I think part of me at first when I was like like what's the piece of paper? was like like what's the piece of paper? was like like what's the piece of paper? He doesn't care about your piece of He doesn't care about your piece of He doesn't care about your piece of paper, marriage certificate. He doesn't paper, marriage certificate. He doesn't paper, marriage certificate. He doesn't care about any of that. Why do this? I care about any of that. Why do this? I care about any of that. Why do this? I think it's really easy to be that, but think it's really easy to be that, but think it's really easy to be that, but I'm like she's trying I think she knows I'm like she's trying I think she knows I'm like she's trying I think she knows it's going to happen again. And I think it's going to happen again. And I think it's going to happen again. And I think what she's trying to do what she's trying to do what she's trying to do >> is build herself any sort of life raft >> is build herself any sort of life raft >> is build herself any sort of life raft she can. she can. she can. >> Yes. for afterwards because she knows >> Yes. for afterwards because she knows >> Yes. for afterwards because she knows >> she knows it's going to happen again. >> she knows it's going to happen again. >> she knows it's going to happen again. >> She knows it's going to be hard and I >> She knows it's going to be hard and I >> She knows it's going to be hard and I think everything she was like scared of think everything she was like scared of think everything she was like scared of and anticipated is ended up like coming and anticipated is ended up like coming and anticipated is ended up like coming to fruition. to fruition. to fruition. Oh, um this is the moment too where we Oh, um this is the moment too where we Oh, um this is the moment too where we get that like weird um video of them in get that like weird um video of them in get that like weird um video of them in the car where he's like speaking in the car where he's like speaking in the car where he's like speaking in third person and he's like third person and he's like third person and he's like >> and out of third person by the way. I >> and out of third person by the way. I >> and out of third person by the way. I like I Alyssa was like why was he like I Alyssa was like why was he like I Alyssa was like why was he speaking in third person when we watched speaking in third person when we watched speaking in third person when we watched it together and I was like huh? Yeah. it together and I was like huh? Yeah. it together and I was like huh? Yeah. Yeah. And then when I watched it again, Yeah. And then when I watched it again, Yeah. And then when I watched it again, I was like, "Not all the time." Cuz he's I was like, "Not all the time." Cuz he's I was like, "Not all the time." Cuz he's like, "Some the first lady of the like, "Some the first lady of the like, "Some the first lady of the church." And she's like, "Who's the church." And she's like, "Who's the church." And she's like, "Who's the first lady?" He's like, "You're the first lady?" He's like, "You're the first lady?" He's like, "You're the first lady." And I was like, "She and" first lady." And I was like, "She and" first lady." And I was like, "She and" and he's like, "She loves the pastor." I and he's like, "She loves the pastor." I and he's like, "She loves the pastor." I was like, "What is happening right now?"

was like, "What is happening right now?" was like, "What is happening right now?" >> Bizarre. >> Bizarre. >> Bizarre. >> I don't even know what that was. It to >> I don't even know what that was. It to >> I don't even know what that was. It to me that was a little bit like the crying me that was a little bit like the crying me that was a little bit like the crying on the grass video where I was like, on the grass video where I was like, on the grass video where I was like, >> actually, can we talk about that more? >> actually, can we talk about that more? >> actually, can we talk about that more? >> Yeah. I was like I need I would love if >> Yeah. I was like I need I would love if >> Yeah. I was like I need I would love if someone could post the whole video someone could post the whole video someone could post the whole video >> and give us some context of like when >> and give us some context of like when >> and give us some context of like when this happened why like this happened why like this happened why like >> yeah anyway >> yeah anyway >> yeah anyway >> I don't know and I don't know if it's in >> I don't know and I don't know if it's in >> I don't know and I don't know if it's in that video or somewhere else but like we that video or somewhere else but like we that video or somewhere else but like we get this idea and again this is him get this idea and again this is him get this idea and again this is him being the victim and I think he he being the victim and I think he he being the victim and I think he he became an expert at manipulating the became an expert at manipulating the became an expert at manipulating the people around him but like only in that people around him but like only in that people around him but like only in that bubble like the congregation the people bubble like the congregation the people bubble like the congregation the people who like had his same worldview a who like had his same worldview a who like had his same worldview a worldview that he built worldview that he built worldview that he built >> but he >> but he >> but he sustain makes himself the victim them sustain makes himself the victim them sustain makes himself the victim them because he, you know, why would you do because he, you know, why would you do because he, you know, why would you do this? Like, you have everything. And this? Like, you have everything. And this? Like, you have everything. And he's like, I was scared you were going he's like, I was scared you were going he's like, I was scared you were going to leave me. Somehow it's like her fault to leave me. Somehow it's like her fault to leave me. Somehow it's like her fault that he continues to do these things. that he continues to do these things. that he continues to do these things. >> Want to leave. Yeah. >> Want to leave. Yeah. >> Want to leave. Yeah. >> And I like I only reiterate it because I >> And I like I only reiterate it because I >> And I like I only reiterate it because I think this is such a common tactic with think this is such a common tactic with think this is such a common tactic with abusers is to make themselves the victim abusers is to make themselves the victim abusers is to make themselves the victim over and I actually think they do see over and I actually think they do see over and I actually think they do see themselves as the victim.

themselves as the victim. themselves as the victim. >> Yeah. I maybe not cart blanch maybe not >> Yeah. I maybe not cart blanch maybe not >> Yeah. I maybe not cart blanch maybe not everybody but like I think a large part everybody but like I think a large part everybody but like I think a large part percent of them for sure. percent of them for sure. percent of them for sure. >> Yeah. Like I I don't I think there are >> Yeah. Like I I don't I think there are >> Yeah. Like I I don't I think there are people who are just blatantly bullies people who are just blatantly bullies people who are just blatantly bullies and they know it. But I think there are and they know it. But I think there are and they know it. But I think there are other people who other people who other people who I like the best way I can describe it is I like the best way I can describe it is I like the best way I can describe it is like lie so much they start they start like lie so much they start they start like lie so much they start they start losing the truth. Like they no longer losing the truth. Like they no longer losing the truth. Like they no longer see the reality of like who is and is see the reality of like who is and is see the reality of like who is and is not the victim. their reality is not the victim. their reality is not the victim. their reality is completely broken by the lies that they completely broken by the lies that they completely broken by the lies that they have not only told other people, but have not only told other people, but have not only told other people, but they've told them so many times that they've told them so many times that they've told them so many times that they've begun to believe the lies they've begun to believe the lies they've begun to believe the lies themselves. themselves. themselves. >> In that video, she's like, "What would >> In that video, she's like, "What would >> In that video, she's like, "What would you do to like get me back or keep keep you do to like get me back or keep keep you do to like get me back or keep keep me?" And I thought his answer was so me?" And I thought his answer was so me?" And I thought his answer was so interesting. He says that I would put interesting. He says that I would put interesting. He says that I would put myself in a psych ward until they myself in a psych ward until they myself in a psych ward until they release me. release me. release me. >> And I was like, "Oh, >> And I was like, "Oh, >> And I was like, "Oh, to you that's the worst possible to you that's the worst possible to you that's the worst possible punishment." the thing that you've punishment." the thing that you've punishment." the thing that you've already done to her. already done to her. already done to her. >> Yeah, that is the thing. And I was like, >> Yeah, that is the thing. And I was like, >> Yeah, that is the thing. And I was like, how telling the thing that you keep how telling the thing that you keep how telling the thing that you keep doing is the thing that you say is like doing is the thing that you say is like doing is the thing that you say is like we I would do I would do anything to get we I would do I would do anything to get we I would do I would do anything to get you back. I would even put myself in a you back. I would even put myself in a you back. I would even put myself in a psych word because psych word because psych word because >> my god, can you imagine?

>> my god, can you imagine? >> my god, can you imagine? So, the rest of the episode really is So, the rest of the episode really is So, the rest of the episode really is again we're diving into like his again we're diving into like his again we're diving into like his insatiable insatiable insatiable sexual appetite. And I would like to sexual appetite. And I would like to sexual appetite. And I would like to point out that we also hear a lot of point out that we also hear a lot of point out that we also hear a lot of these stories these stories these stories from Micah's friends, from Micah's friends, from Micah's friends, >> which again, like I would like to >> which again, like I would like to >> which again, like I would like to stress, this is huge, especially the stress, this is huge, especially the stress, this is huge, especially the stories that she that like they tell stories that she that like they tell stories that she that like they tell towards the end of this episode, towards the end of this episode, towards the end of this episode, >> which are harrowing >> which are harrowing >> which are harrowing in a way that I was not expecting. in a way that I was not expecting. in a way that I was not expecting. >> I was not prepared for it. But like we >> I was not prepared for it. But like we >> I was not prepared for it. But like we get a lot more of his like preaching in get a lot more of his like preaching in get a lot more of his like preaching in this too. I have a quote. He says, this too. I have a quote. He says, this too. I have a quote. He says, "There's incredible danger in unmet "There's incredible danger in unmet "There's incredible danger in unmet needs. A fantastic marriage is simply needs. A fantastic marriage is simply needs. A fantastic marriage is simply this. my needs are being met today. this. my needs are being met today. this. my needs are being met today. Everything is about like his needs being Everything is about like his needs being Everything is about like his needs being met. When your husband wants sex, God met. When your husband wants sex, God met. When your husband wants sex, God does not send an angel from heaven to does not send an angel from heaven to does not send an angel from heaven to take care of that. Like basically, it's take care of that. Like basically, it's take care of that. Like basically, it's like it's your freaking job. And he says like it's your freaking job. And he says like it's your freaking job. And he says the sin that has most the sin that has the sin that has most the sin that has the sin that has most the sin that has the most horrifying results in your life the most horrifying results in your life the most horrifying results in your life is sexual immorality. And he says is sexual immorality. And he says is sexual immorality. And he says denying sex leads to sexual immorality. denying sex leads to sexual immorality. denying sex leads to sexual immorality. So like denying sex is leads to one of So like denying sex is leads to one of So like denying sex is leads to one of the greatest sins. Oh, and this is where the greatest sins. Oh, and this is where the greatest sins. Oh, and this is where he was like, uh, don't deny sex and then he was like, uh, don't deny sex and then he was like, uh, don't deny sex and then Satan won't be able to tempt you because Satan won't be able to tempt you because Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

of your lack of self-control. of your lack of self-control. And then, oh, he's like, "A man doesn't And then, oh, he's like, "A man doesn't And then, oh, he's like, "A man doesn't want to be rejected more than once. want to be rejected more than once. want to be rejected more than once. Unless you repent for it, his heart gets Unless you repent for it, his heart gets Unless you repent for it, his heart gets hard." And I was like, "Boo, your hard hard." And I was like, "Boo, your hard hard." And I was like, "Boo, your hard heart is not the hard thing of you that heart is not the hard thing of you that heart is not the hard thing of you that I'm worried about right now." [laughter] I'm worried about right now." [laughter] I'm worried about right now." [laughter] Like, what is happening? Like, what is happening? Like, what is happening? >> No, totally. >> No, totally. >> No, totally. And then my last quote from this like And then my last quote from this like And then my last quote from this like these like sermons is when he was like these like sermons is when he was like these like sermons is when he was like what he say what he say what he say >> for now at least >> for now at least >> for now at least >> for now the only reason a man would not >> for now the only reason a man would not >> for now the only reason a man would not want to touch or hold a woman is that want to touch or hold a woman is that want to touch or hold a woman is that man cuz he doesn't like her. The only man cuz he doesn't like her. The only man cuz he doesn't like her. The only reason he doesn't like her reason he doesn't like her reason he doesn't like her >> her mouth >> her mouth >> her mouth >> is because of her mouth. >> is because of her mouth. >> is because of her mouth. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Girl, we talk for a living. [laughter] >> Girl, we talk for a living. [laughter] >> Girl, we talk for a living. [laughter] >> Get I was shocked. Like I I think that up I was shocked. Like I I think that up until this point when we talked about until this point when we talked about until this point when we talked about the sexual abuse I was thinking the the sexual abuse I was thinking the the sexual abuse I was thinking the abuse of him demanding abuse of him demanding abuse of him demanding four times a day, five times a day is four times a day, five times a day is four times a day, five times a day is sometimes what they talked about every sometimes what they talked about every sometimes what they talked about every single day and if not with her than single day and if not with her than single day and if not with her than someone and I that that's terrible someone and I that that's terrible someone and I that that's terrible abuse. But what is described next is abuse. But what is described next is abuse. But what is described next is that he basically forces her into that he basically forces her into that he basically forces her into encounters with encounters with encounters with random people that he random people that he random people that he >> pays those people whether that's >> pays those people whether that's >> pays those people whether that's touching her. One of her friends touching her. One of her friends touching her. One of her friends describes describes describes >> like him paying someone to finish on her >> like him paying someone to finish on her >> like him paying someone to finish on her and like the way she said that Mike and like the way she said that Mike and like the way she said that Mike described it was like she didn't have described it was like she didn't have described it was like she didn't have enough like soap in the world. There was enough like soap in the world. There was enough like soap in the world. There was nothing she could do to make herself nothing she could do to make herself nothing she could do to make herself feel clean after that. In the feel clean after that. In the feel clean after that. In the documentary, they show her like journal

documentary, they show her like journal documentary, they show her like journal writings and one time she says at one writings and one time she says at one writings and one time she says at one point he picked up a couple of unhoused point he picked up a couple of unhoused point he picked up a couple of unhoused people for a threesome. It's like this people for a threesome. It's like this people for a threesome. It's like this was about degrading her, controlling was about degrading her, controlling was about degrading her, controlling her. her. her. >> I was just about to say like I when I >> I was just about to say like I when I >> I was just about to say like I when I was watching with Alyssa, I was like was watching with Alyssa, I was like was watching with Alyssa, I was like this is not inherently sexual for him this is not inherently sexual for him this is not inherently sexual for him anymore. This is him exerting his anymore. This is him exerting his anymore. This is him exerting his control and his power control and his power control and his power >> and showing her how much >> and showing her how much >> and showing her how much >> he can do to her and she has >> he can do to her and she has >> he can do to her and she has >> she can do nothing about it. >> she can do nothing about it. >> she can do nothing about it. >> And a lot of we we move into episode >> And a lot of we we move into episode >> And a lot of we we move into episode three and we get this like a little bit three and we get this like a little bit three and we get this like a little bit of backstory that leaves so many of backstory that leaves so many of backstory that leaves so many questions to be answered. questions to be answered. questions to be answered. >> That pile, right? [laughter] >> That pile, right? [laughter] >> That pile, right? [laughter] >> We'll come back to the pile. But there's >> We'll come back to the pile. But there's >> We'll come back to the pile. But there's this allegation that like maybe JP was this allegation that like maybe JP was this allegation that like maybe JP was abused by his father and that is what abused by his father and that is what abused by his father and that is what again when it comes to like him being a again when it comes to like him being a again when it comes to like him being a victim like that is what has caused him victim like that is what has caused him victim like that is what has caused him to be the way that he is. And so we we to be the way that he is. And so we we to be the way that he is. And so we we hear that like his father who was also a hear that like his father who was also a hear that like his father who was also a pastor had gotten into some trouble pastor had gotten into some trouble pastor had gotten into some trouble maybe in the past but it was like very maybe in the past but it was like very maybe in the past but it was like very very very very >> glossed over like it was a quick >> glossed over like it was a quick >> glossed over like it was a quick >> like snippet in the show and then they >> like snippet in the show and then they >> like snippet in the show and then they kind of moved on. So, it's one one of kind of moved on. So, it's one one of kind of moved on. So, it's one one of the things that I like dug into more the things that I like dug into more the things that I like dug into more later, later, later, but really episode 3 is about her but really episode 3 is about her but really episode 3 is about her leaving, which we know is the most leaving, which we know is the most leaving, which we know is the most dangerous time in a person who's being dangerous time in a person who's being dangerous time in a person who's being abused life.

abused life. abused life. >> We get a little bit of the timeline like >> We get a little bit of the timeline like >> We get a little bit of the timeline like this, this finally brings us up to the this, this finally brings us up to the this, this finally brings us up to the actual like day. actual like day. actual like day. >> And by this point, she has moved out. >> And by this point, she has moved out. >> And by this point, she has moved out. Now, what I found out is that she had Now, what I found out is that she had Now, what I found out is that she had apparently threatened divorce before or apparently threatened divorce before or apparently threatened divorce before or maybe even filed, but then like he maybe even filed, but then like he maybe even filed, but then like he convinced her to undo it, convinced her to undo it, convinced her to undo it, >> which is interesting because of some of >> which is interesting because of some of >> which is interesting because of some of like the asset stuff and what was like the asset stuff and what was like the asset stuff and what was happening. Convinced her to undo it. happening. Convinced her to undo it. happening. Convinced her to undo it. Then he goes through this other period Then he goes through this other period Then he goes through this other period where the the stalking, the harassment where the the stalking, the harassment where the the stalking, the harassment doesn't stop. I mean, this is we're doesn't stop. I mean, this is we're doesn't stop. I mean, this is we're finding out that he is putting tracking finding out that he is putting tracking finding out that he is putting tracking devices on her. He's following her, devices on her. He's following her, devices on her. He's following her, >> slashing her tires, >> slashing her tires, >> slashing her tires, >> slashing her tires. And again, like the, >> slashing her tires. And again, like the, >> slashing her tires. And again, like the, you know, there's like, I think, 53 you know, there's like, I think, 53 you know, there's like, I think, 53 calls at one point. I mean, it is calls at one point. I mean, it is calls at one point. I mean, it is nonstop. nonstop. nonstop. She ends up moving out. She's going to She ends up moving out. She's going to She ends up moving out. She's going to live with somebody else. He has her live with somebody else. He has her live with somebody else. He has her committed again. And at this time, committed again. And at this time, committed again. And at this time, they're kind of vague in there. Like they're kind of vague in there. Like they're kind of vague in there. Like they reference like, oh, he's like they reference like, oh, he's like they reference like, oh, he's like taking her stuff like maybe he's oh, taking her stuff like maybe he's oh, taking her stuff like maybe he's oh, he's posting as her on social media to he's posting as her on social media to he's posting as her on social media to make it seem like hundreds of pictures. make it seem like hundreds of pictures. make it seem like hundreds of pictures. they say they say they say >> of them together >> of them together >> of them together >> making everything seem like beautiful >> making everything seem like beautiful >> making everything seem like beautiful and wonderful and like creating this and wonderful and like creating this and wonderful and like creating this image image image >> and they don't really talk about the >> and they don't really talk about the >> and they don't really talk about the other stuff like what was he doing with other stuff like what was he doing with other stuff like what was he doing with her stuff? Why did he take her stuff?

her stuff? Why did he take her stuff? her stuff? Why did he take her stuff? Like I in the documentary as I was Like I in the documentary as I was Like I in the documentary as I was watching I was like oh this is just watching I was like oh this is just watching I was like oh this is just about control about control about control >> I think it was about something else that >> I think it was about something else that >> I think it was about something else that I'll get to. I'll get to. I'll get to. >> But he has her committed she gets out >> But he has her committed she gets out >> But he has her committed she gets out again. Um because it sounds like the again. Um because it sounds like the again. Um because it sounds like the doctors even realize like I this is more doctors even realize like I this is more doctors even realize like I this is more of like a marital which I that's what I of like a marital which I that's what I of like a marital which I that's what I again when I go back to like what is again when I go back to like what is again when I go back to like what is this 1856 like back in the day when this 1856 like back in the day when this 1856 like back in the day when you're like oh my wife's hysterical just you're like oh my wife's hysterical just you're like oh my wife's hysterical just like lock her away. How like lock her away. How like lock her away. How >> and like you might talk about this later >> and like you might talk about this later >> and like you might talk about this later but like in the documentary they do but like in the documentary they do but like in the documentary they do confirm that she does get a diagnosis of confirm that she does get a diagnosis of confirm that she does get a diagnosis of a form of bipolar. Correct. a form of bipolar. Correct. a form of bipolar. Correct. This is what I was like a little conf I This is what I was like a little conf I This is what I was like a little conf I think so think so think so >> because I want to say there is at least >> because I want to say there is at least >> because I want to say there is at least one medical document that they show in one medical document that they show in one medical document that they show in the documentary that states that the documentary that states that the documentary that states that >> I don't know I don't know like how what >> I don't know I don't know like how what >> I don't know I don't know like how what that document is their that document is their that document is their >> I know that's where I was that's where I >> I know that's where I was that's where I >> I know that's where I was that's where I I am always so cautious I am always so cautious I am always so cautious >> especially in something like this of >> especially in something like this of >> especially in something like this of like oh we saw one shot so many times like oh we saw one shot so many times like oh we saw one shot so many times you can if someone gives you a medical you can if someone gives you a medical you can if someone gives you a medical history to say this person has bipolar history to say this person has bipolar history to say this person has bipolar and and and that is not verified now and and and that is not verified now and and and that is not verified now she's in these facilities which should she's in these facilities which should she's in these facilities which should be verified And I mean on the flip side, be verified And I mean on the flip side, be verified And I mean on the flip side, like I'm adopted, my kids are adopted.

like I'm adopted, my kids are adopted. like I'm adopted, my kids are adopted. Medical forms are a lot of fun for us Medical forms are a lot of fun for us Medical forms are a lot of fun for us because like I'm sure there are things because like I'm sure there are things because like I'm sure there are things in my medical history that I simply do in my medical history that I simply do in my medical history that I simply do not know about that can never be not know about that can never be not know about that can never be verified and I just have to fill the verified and I just have to fill the verified and I just have to fill the form out as best as I know. form out as best as I know. form out as best as I know. >> And like that's how it is for my kids >> And like that's how it is for my kids >> And like that's how it is for my kids too. But on the flip side, like you can too. But on the flip side, like you can too. But on the flip side, like you can also write also write also write >> that there are issues when no issues >> that there are issues when no issues >> that there are issues when no issues exist. exist. exist. >> And that's where I like I without >> And that's where I like I without >> And that's where I like I without digging into her medical records, the digging into her medical records, the digging into her medical records, the way that her family spoke on the way that her family spoke on the way that her family spoke on the documentary, it seemed like they documentary, it seemed like they documentary, it seemed like they believed there was something. They also believed there was something. They also believed there was something. They also supported some sort of diagnosis. supported some sort of diagnosis. supported some sort of diagnosis. >> Yeah. But but there I mean they're very >> Yeah. But but there I mean they're very >> Yeah. But but there I mean they're very open in that like what led her to that open in that like what led her to that open in that like what led her to that and like what are the contributing and like what are the contributing and like what are the contributing factors that if she had the like these factors that if she had the like these factors that if she had the like these diagnosis like yeah led to you get it. diagnosis like yeah led to you get it. diagnosis like yeah led to you get it. So this brings us to she filed she So this brings us to she filed she So this brings us to she filed she dismissed she is now done super done and dismissed she is now done super done and dismissed she is now done super done and this is where we meet my new hero uh this is where we meet my new hero uh this is where we meet my new hero uh Regina Ward. Regina Ward. Regina Ward. >> Regina Ward. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I also loved her. I'm so glad she's >> I also loved her. I'm so glad she's >> I also loved her. I'm so glad she's here. here. here. >> I think everyone loves Regina Ward >> I think everyone loves Regina Ward >> I think everyone loves Regina Ward because she is her lawyer and we get her because she is her lawyer and we get her because she is her lawyer and we get her and she's like uh-uh I don't like anyone and she's like uh-uh I don't like anyone and she's like uh-uh I don't like anyone that tries to take advantage of I think that tries to take advantage of I think that tries to take advantage of I think she said the weak, the meek, the poor.

she said the weak, the meek, the poor. she said the weak, the meek, the poor. And I was like And I was like And I was like she's her divorce attorney and she's not she's her divorce attorney and she's not she's her divorce attorney and she's not putting up with anything. And what she putting up with anything. And what she putting up with anything. And what she says says says >> Regina Ward heart >> Regina Ward heart >> Regina Ward heart >> heart heart I said she made the hero >> heart heart I said she made the hero >> heart heart I said she made the hero wall. wall. wall. >> So she on behalf of Micah files and JP >> So she on behalf of Micah files and JP >> So she on behalf of Micah files and JP gets served on April 25th. 2 days later gets served on April 25th. 2 days later gets served on April 25th. 2 days later is when Micah dies. is when Micah dies. is when Micah dies. >> And the timeline >> And the timeline >> And the timeline this is this is the crux of the case. this is this is the crux of the case. this is this is the crux of the case. It's like It's like It's like everyone did she do it? her family everyone did she do it? her family everyone did she do it? her family alleges in the documentary like they alleges in the documentary like they alleges in the documentary like they don't think that someone else wasn't don't think that someone else wasn't don't think that someone else wasn't involved. Like they they cannot let that involved. Like they they cannot let that involved. Like they they cannot let that go. go. go. >> But everyone the police have ruled it a >> But everyone the police have ruled it a >> But everyone the police have ruled it a suicide. The um sheriff's office put out suicide. The um sheriff's office put out suicide. The um sheriff's office put out this like nifty this like nifty this like nifty >> proof >> proof >> proof >> proof PowerPoint that that has been >> proof PowerPoint that that has been >> proof PowerPoint that that has been shared with everyone that in their eyes shared with everyone that in their eyes shared with everyone that in their eyes explains everything. So what we have is explains everything. So what we have is explains everything. So what we have is that day she's supposed to go to work that day she's supposed to go to work that day she's supposed to go to work >> at like noon. That's what Diana says in >> at like noon. That's what Diana says in >> at like noon. That's what Diana says in the documentary. Diana is the woman the documentary. Diana is the woman the documentary. Diana is the woman she's living with.

she's living with. she's living with. >> What I would love is like verification >> What I would love is like verification >> What I would love is like verification of that. What time did her shift start? of that. What time did her shift start? of that. What time did her shift start? Because what I find so interesting is Because what I find so interesting is Because what I find so interesting is that why put on your uniform that why put on your uniform that why put on your uniform >> if you're not going to and like she >> if you're not going to and like she >> if you're not going to and like she immediately does not go to work. She immediately does not go to work. She immediately does not go to work. She leaves at the time and you can 11:38. leaves at the time and you can 11:38. leaves at the time and you can 11:38. >> I say you can correct me at any point in >> I say you can correct me at any point in >> I say you can correct me at any point in time. She leaves at a time where it's time. She leaves at a time where it's time. She leaves at a time where it's like, oh, like, oh, like, oh, >> depending on how far away her work is, >> depending on how far away her work is, >> depending on how far away her work is, like that's a appropriate time to show like that's a appropriate time to show like that's a appropriate time to show up for a 12:00 shift. up for a 12:00 shift. up for a 12:00 shift. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> in her uniform that was on like a >> in her uniform that was on like a >> in her uniform that was on like a doorbell cam, doorbell cam, doorbell cam, >> leaves her apartment. >> leaves her apartment. >> leaves her apartment. >> 12:12, she pulls into the pawn shop. >> 12:12, she pulls into the pawn shop. >> 12:12, she pulls into the pawn shop. This pawn shop is where the gun is This pawn shop is where the gun is This pawn shop is where the gun is purchased. Now, what I think is purchased. Now, what I think is purchased. Now, what I think is interesting is I mapped her apartment to interesting is I mapped her apartment to interesting is I mapped her apartment to the pawn shop. It's a 9 to 10 minute the pawn shop. It's a 9 to 10 minute the pawn shop. It's a 9 to 10 minute drive, but it's 34 minutes before she drive, but it's 34 minutes before she drive, but it's 34 minutes before she pulls in. So, I don't I don't know where pulls in. So, I don't I don't know where pulls in. So, I don't I don't know where she was. Why? Like was there another she was. Why? Like was there another she was. Why? Like was there another stop? Was it stop? Was it stop? Was it >> Did you map where she worked? >> Did you map where she worked? >> Did you map where she worked? >> I didn't do that. >> I didn't do that. >> I didn't do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Was Did Yeah. Did she like go to work >> Was Did Yeah. Did she like go to work >> Was Did Yeah. Did she like go to work first and then first and then first and then >> But it's weird. So, but she gets she >> But it's weird. So, but she gets she >> But it's weird. So, but she gets she pulls in. She's at the counter. I mean, pulls in. She's at the counter. I mean, pulls in. She's at the counter. I mean, she knew exactly what she was going in she knew exactly what she was going in she knew exactly what she was going in for. She's at the counter at 12:13.

for. She's at the counter at 12:13. for. She's at the counter at 12:13. 12:34, she's leaving the lot. Now, 12:34, she's leaving the lot. Now, 12:34, she's leaving the lot. Now, again, I don't know. Did it take time? I again, I don't know. Did it take time? I again, I don't know. Did it take time? I assume they have to look at her. I hope assume they have to look at her. I hope assume they have to look at her. I hope they had to look at her ID to buy this they had to look at her ID to buy this they had to look at her ID to buy this gun. But like at 12:34 she has to leave gun. But like at 12:34 she has to leave gun. But like at 12:34 she has to leave the lot. At 10:06 we pick her car up on the lot. At 10:06 we pick her car up on the lot. At 10:06 we pick her car up on a flock camera and she's like driving in a flock camera and she's like driving in a flock camera and she's like driving in the direction of where she'll ultimately the direction of where she'll ultimately the direction of where she'll ultimately be found. So it's 40 minutes from Dicks be found. So it's 40 minutes from Dicks be found. So it's 40 minutes from Dicks to where the flap camera is. 127 she's to where the flap camera is. 127 she's to where the flap camera is. 127 she's at a gas station and that like all kind at a gas station and that like all kind at a gas station and that like all kind of lines up and then it's like 39 to 44 of lines up and then it's like 39 to 44 of lines up and then it's like 39 to 44 minutes from the gas station to the minutes from the gas station to the minutes from the gas station to the park. So I was like trying to do the park. So I was like trying to do the park. So I was like trying to do the math of like when she leaves the gas math of like when she leaves the gas math of like when she leaves the gas station like station like station like >> does she go directly to the park? >> does she go directly to the park? >> does she go directly to the park? >> Yeah. And it it she should arrive if she >> Yeah. And it it she should arrive if she >> Yeah. And it it she should arrive if she goes right away. And this is like she goes right away. And this is like she goes right away. And this is like she per the other calculation, she's driving per the other calculation, she's driving per the other calculation, she's driving a little bit faster, but if she goes a little bit faster, but if she goes a little bit faster, but if she goes exactly like the speed limit, she should exactly like the speed limit, she should exactly like the speed limit, she should be getting to the park and it takes a be getting to the park and it takes a be getting to the park and it takes a 5-minute walk from where her car was to 5-minute walk from where her car was to 5-minute walk from where her car was to the like the coordinates where she was the like the coordinates where she was the like the coordinates where she was found. She should be at the coordinates found. She should be at the coordinates found. She should be at the coordinates where she's found at 2:21. The 911 call where she's found at 2:21. The 911 call where she's found at 2:21. The 911 call comes in at 2:54.

comes in at 2:54. comes in at 2:54. >> There's time. Now there is a witness who >> There's time. Now there is a witness who >> There's time. Now there is a witness who has come forward or came forward later has come forward or came forward later has come forward or came forward later that was like I heard crying before I that was like I heard crying before I that was like I heard crying before I heard a shot heard a shot heard a shot but we know the shot comes after she but we know the shot comes after she but we know the shot comes after she calls 911. calls 911. calls 911. So like I just again there's like So like I just again there's like So like I just again there's like missing time. Is this I'm sitting in my missing time. Is this I'm sitting in my missing time. Is this I'm sitting in my car. I'm building up the courage sitting car. I'm building up the courage sitting car. I'm building up the courage sitting with what I'm about to do with what I'm about to do with what I'm about to do >> or is it something else? Her family has >> or is it something else? Her family has >> or is it something else? Her family has wondered I it's what they like say in wondered I it's what they like say in wondered I it's what they like say in the documentary like was she lured there the documentary like was she lured there the documentary like was she lured there because also why go because also why go because also why go >> it seems like I think something that >> it seems like I think something that >> it seems like I think something that they say in the documentary is like why they say in the documentary is like why they say in the documentary is like why here like why would you go all the way here like why would you go all the way here like why would you go all the way out here so far that you have to call out here so far that you have to call out here so far that you have to call 911 to make sure people know where you 911 to make sure people know where you 911 to make sure people know where you are. I thought what I thought was are. I thought what I thought was are. I thought what I thought was interesting was it was like right over interesting was it was like right over interesting was it was like right over the state line. Like it's a north she's the state line. Like it's a north she's the state line. Like it's a north she's in North Carolina in North Carolina in North Carolina >> which causes maybe jurisdictional >> which causes maybe jurisdictional >> which causes maybe jurisdictional issues, but I like if what you want is issues, but I like if what you want is issues, but I like if what you want is for your family to find you and for this for your family to find you and for this for your family to find you and for this to be easy.

to be easy. to be easy. >> Why there? Because she does take the >> Why there? Because she does take the >> Why there? Because she does take the steps to help her family find her. Like steps to help her family find her. Like steps to help her family find her. Like she calls 911 so that coordinates are she calls 911 so that coordinates are she calls 911 so that coordinates are like tracked. like tracked. like tracked. >> You hear her voice on the 911 call. She >> You hear her voice on the 911 call. She >> You hear her voice on the 911 call. She sounds calm. sounds calm. sounds calm. >> Episode one opens with it. >> Episode one opens with it. >> Episode one opens with it. >> Starts with it. I looked the most of the >> Starts with it. I looked the most of the >> Starts with it. I looked the most of the the call that I could find, the most the call that I could find, the most the call that I could find, the most amount was like 2 minutes and 30 amount was like 2 minutes and 30 amount was like 2 minutes and 30 seconds. So, it also isn't just like, seconds. So, it also isn't just like, seconds. So, it also isn't just like, "Hey, here I am about to do this. Hang "Hey, here I am about to do this. Hang "Hey, here I am about to do this. Hang up." It's it's 2 minutes of her trying up." It's it's 2 minutes of her trying up." It's it's 2 minutes of her trying to figure out where she was. And at the to figure out where she was. And at the to figure out where she was. And at the very end, she says what she's about to very end, she says what she's about to very end, she says what she's about to do and apparently hangs up before they do and apparently hangs up before they do and apparently hangs up before they can can can >> like they don't hear a shot or anything >> like they don't hear a shot or anything >> like they don't hear a shot or anything like that. Now, they bring up some stuff like that. Now, they bring up some stuff like that. Now, they bring up some stuff in the doc that I thought was in the doc that I thought was in the doc that I thought was interesting, which is like they find her interesting, which is like they find her interesting, which is like they find her body away from the shell casings. They body away from the shell casings. They body away from the shell casings. They also mentioned two spent shell casings, also mentioned two spent shell casings, also mentioned two spent shell casings, which I can't find a ton of stuff about, which I can't find a ton of stuff about, which I can't find a ton of stuff about, but I'm like, the the witness hears one but I'm like, the the witness hears one but I'm like, the the witness hears one shot. She has one shot. Like, she didn't shot. She has one shot. Like, she didn't shot. She has one shot. Like, she didn't shoot herself twice, shoot herself twice, shoot herself twice, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Where did this other one come from? >> Where did this other one come from? >> Where did this other one come from? >> And is it like obviously then you have >> And is it like obviously then you have >> And is it like obviously then you have all the questions like, are they all the questions like, are they all the questions like, are they casings from the same type of casings from the same type of casings from the same type of ammunition? Like, do they belong to the ammunition? Like, do they belong to the ammunition? Like, do they belong to the same gun? Like, there's nothing same gun? Like, there's nothing same gun? Like, there's nothing >> is not in >> is not in >> is not in >> Exactly.

>> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> is not in the police's >> is not in the police's >> is not in the police's PDF. PDF. PDF. The other thing, um, what is in here, I The other thing, um, what is in here, I The other thing, um, what is in here, I actually want to show you, is a picture of the inside of her car. And a picture of the inside of her car. And there was something that stood out to there was something that stood out to there was something that stood out to me. The same thing with like, why are me. The same thing with like, why are me. The same thing with like, why are you putting on your work uniform if this you putting on your work uniform if this you putting on your work uniform if this is your plan for the day? is your plan for the day? is your plan for the day? She also packed her lunch. It's a sandwich in a ziplock. Like It's a sandwich in a ziplock. Like that's a fresh sandwich in a Ziploc bag. that's a fresh sandwich in a Ziploc bag. that's a fresh sandwich in a Ziploc bag. Isn't that weird? That's really weird. Isn't that weird? That's really weird. Isn't that weird? That's really weird. These are the things that her family These are the things that her family These are the things that her family it's not making sense to them. So it's not making sense to them. So it's not making sense to them. So naturally when this happens, her family naturally when this happens, her family naturally when this happens, her family is immediately suspicious because her is immediately suspicious because her is immediately suspicious because her sister, one of her sisters says that sister, one of her sisters says that sister, one of her sisters says that Micah said if I am found with a bullet Micah said if I am found with a bullet Micah said if I am found with a bullet in my head, I didn't do it. JP did. She in my head, I didn't do it. JP did. She in my head, I didn't do it. JP did. She is found with a bullet in her head. that is found with a bullet in her head. that is found with a bullet in her head. that that is why like why say that and then that is why like why say that and then that is why like why say that and then do that too.

do that too. do that too. >> So they have a ton of questions knowing >> So they have a ton of questions knowing >> So they have a ton of questions knowing that she the two days before had filed that she the two days before had filed that she the two days before had filed for divorce. The church was going to for divorce. The church was going to for divorce. The church was going to break apart. Everyone said if the church break apart. Everyone said if the church break apart. Everyone said if the church broke apart again everything that he had broke apart again everything that he had broke apart again everything that he had built it was it was done done. This is built it was it was done done. This is built it was it was done done. This is like a very unrime junkie question, but like a very unrime junkie question, but like a very unrime junkie question, but they didn't address it in the doc that they didn't address it in the doc that they didn't address it in the doc that JP alibi. Like I'm sure this is like JP alibi. Like I'm sure this is like JP alibi. Like I'm sure this is like somewhere in like the PowerPoint, but somewhere in like the PowerPoint, but somewhere in like the PowerPoint, but like they don't touch on that like they don't touch on that like they don't touch on that >> at all >> at all >> at all >> at all in the documentary, which I found >> at all in the documentary, which I found >> at all in the documentary, which I found really strange and like it took really strange and like it took really strange and like it took everything in my being not to Google everything in my being not to Google everything in my being not to Google because I knew you were already working because I knew you were already working because I knew you were already working on [laughter] this. So they don't talk on [laughter] this. So they don't talk on [laughter] this. So they don't talk about it at all except for when the about it at all except for when the about it at all except for when the reporter from News Nation has like the reporter from News Nation has like the reporter from News Nation has like the one sitdown with him and he's like I was one sitdown with him and he's like I was one sitdown with him and he's like I was at like the soccer game, the sporting at like the soccer game, the sporting at like the soccer game, the sporting thing like every aundred people saw me thing like every aundred people saw me thing like every aundred people saw me there that that Saturday. there that that Saturday. there that that Saturday. >> Well, in this >> Well, in this >> Well, in this >> his timeline that we get from the police >> his timeline that we get from the police >> his timeline that we get from the police PowerPoint, evidence PowerPoint is from PowerPoint, evidence PowerPoint is from PowerPoint, evidence PowerPoint is from Friday the 26th to Saturday the 27th. So Friday the 26th to Saturday the 27th. So Friday the 26th to Saturday the 27th. So Friday he goes to Charleston, South Friday he goes to Charleston, South Friday he goes to Charleston, South Carolina for this sporting event. They Carolina for this sporting event. They Carolina for this sporting event. They say this is supported by eyewitnesses.

say this is supported by eyewitnesses. say this is supported by eyewitnesses. So his claim that a bunch of people are So his claim that a bunch of people are So his claim that a bunch of people are there checks out there checks out there checks out >> on Friday though. >> on Friday though. >> on Friday though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Bunch of people are there. And on >> Bunch of people are there. And on >> Bunch of people are there. And on Saturday, so this is the day that she Saturday, so this is the day that she Saturday, so this is the day that she buys the gun and goes up to the park. buys the gun and goes up to the park. buys the gun and goes up to the park. >> What they have, the only thing that >> What they have, the only thing that >> What they have, the only thing that they've included is that they have him they've included is that they have him they've included is that they have him driving back to Myrtle Beach where they driving back to Myrtle Beach where they driving back to Myrtle Beach where they live and they have flot cameras of his live and they have flot cameras of his live and they have flot cameras of his truck. Now, if you look at those like truck. Now, if you look at those like truck. Now, if you look at those like pictures, the windows are like blacked. pictures, the windows are like blacked. pictures, the windows are like blacked. I cannot see anything. Now, did I I cannot see anything. Now, did I I cannot see anything. Now, did I meticulously map the coordinates and the meticulously map the coordinates and the meticulously map the coordinates and the time for every single flat camera thing? time for every single flat camera thing? time for every single flat camera thing? I did. I did. I did. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> I did. >> I did. >> I did. >> I figured you would. >> I figured you would. >> I figured you would. >> And where you didn't sleep last night, >> And where you didn't sleep last night, >> And where you didn't sleep last night, did you? did you? did you? >> Where this truck was is nowhere like it >> Where this truck was is nowhere like it >> Where this truck was is nowhere like it it wasn't near the park. like he it wasn't near the park. like he it wasn't near the park. like he couldn't have gotten the last flock couldn't have gotten the last flock couldn't have gotten the last flock sighting of the truck was at 2:22 sighting of the truck was at 2:22 sighting of the truck was at 2:22 and it's too far away to get to the and it's too far away to get to the and it's too far away to get to the park. park. park. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, the truck is not there. What I find >> So, the truck is not there. What I find >> So, the truck is not there. What I find strange is that if they're saying he has strange is that if they're saying he has strange is that if they're saying he has such a solid alibi, what they're not such a solid alibi, what they're not such a solid alibi, what they're not including for Saturday, the actual day including for Saturday, the actual day including for Saturday, the actual day that matters is any phone data, any like that matters is any phone data, any like that matters is any phone data, any like was anyone with him on that Saturday in was anyone with him on that Saturday in was anyone with him on that Saturday in that truck, when did he get home, who that truck, when did he get home, who that truck, when did he get home, who saw him after? Like to me, this is all saw him after? Like to me, this is all saw him after? Like to me, this is all really important stuff. And and even really important stuff. And and even really important stuff. And and even beyond him, beyond him, beyond him, the other people connected to him. Yeah, the other people connected to him. Yeah, the other people connected to him. Yeah, >> like like he is the only person talked

>> like like he is the only person talked >> like like he is the only person talked about in this document, about in this document, about in this document, >> which I find interesting. >> which I find interesting. >> which I find interesting. >> We've we've mentioned him a few times >> We've we've mentioned him a few times >> We've we've mentioned him a few times and had questions, but like where is and had questions, but like where is and had questions, but like where is Mark? Mark? Mark? >> And I do think that like Mark, not Mark, >> And I do think that like Mark, not Mark, >> And I do think that like Mark, not Mark, whatever. There were other people who whatever. There were other people who whatever. There were other people who Micah felt like she was being followed Micah felt like she was being followed Micah felt like she was being followed by. Like it wasn't just JP. So, I think by. Like it wasn't just JP. So, I think by. Like it wasn't just JP. So, I think this is meant to tell everyone like this is meant to tell everyone like this is meant to tell everyone like there's nothing to see here. But to me, there's nothing to see here. But to me, there's nothing to see here. But to me, this like I have a lot more questions. this like I have a lot more questions. this like I have a lot more questions. What it also doesn't include is like What it also doesn't include is like What it also doesn't include is like Micah's stuff because what it shows is Micah's stuff because what it shows is Micah's stuff because what it shows is oh, she, you know, like looked how to oh, she, you know, like looked how to oh, she, you know, like looked how to get to the pawn shop. She looked up get to the pawn shop. She looked up get to the pawn shop. She looked up national parks near me, but it doesn't national parks near me, but it doesn't national parks near me, but it doesn't say what time those searches happened. say what time those searches happened. say what time those searches happened. It doesn't say what other things It doesn't say what other things It doesn't say what other things happened around there like what calls happened around there like what calls happened around there like what calls she was making who she was in she was making who she was in she was making who she was in communication with communication with communication with >> well or even like did she like sit in >> well or even like did she like sit in >> well or even like did she like sit in her parking lot in the parking lot at her parking lot in the parking lot at her parking lot in the parking lot at her apartment like where she was staying her apartment like where she was staying her apartment like where she was staying where she was at work when she googled where she was at work when she googled where she was at work when she googled the pawn shop was she still at the pawn the pawn shop was she still at the pawn the pawn shop was she still at the pawn shop when she googled parks like was she shop when she googled parks like was she shop when she googled parks like was she at the gas station when she did that at the gas station when she did that at the gas station when she did that like there's we know that she's in these like there's we know that she's in these like there's we know that she's in these different places but are these searches different places but are these searches different places but are these searches happening at those different places or happening at those different places or happening at those different places or was this like a long plotted out thing was this like a long plotted out thing was this like a long plotted out thing and I think again I think people would and I think again I think people would and I think again I think people would say well you know we're just worried say well you know we're just worried say well you know we're just worried about about about All the evidence proves to it only being All the evidence proves to it only being All the evidence proves to it only being her. Why are we even talking about this?

her. Why are we even talking about this? her. Why are we even talking about this? Well, then my question is why was he Well, then my question is why was he Well, then my question is why was he trying to collect like all her trying to collect like all her trying to collect like all her immediately? immediately? immediately? >> The woman she was living with, I loved >> The woman she was living with, I loved >> The woman she was living with, I loved cuz she seemed so sweet. cuz she seemed so sweet. cuz she seemed so sweet. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And when as soon as JP called was like, >> And when as soon as JP called was like, >> And when as soon as JP called was like, I'm just going to come pick up her I'm just going to come pick up her I'm just going to come pick up her stuff. She's like, um, I'm not sure if stuff. She's like, um, I'm not sure if stuff. She's like, um, I'm not sure if I'll be home essentially. and then I'll be home essentially. and then I'll be home essentially. and then called her siblings and was like, "Get called her siblings and was like, "Get called her siblings and was like, "Get >> get over here and get it." He's like, "I >> get over here and get it." He's like, "I >> get over here and get it." He's like, "I want her Bible. I want her writings, her want her Bible. I want her writings, her want her Bible. I want her writings, her journals." Like, and that I could make, journals." Like, and that I could make, journals." Like, and that I could make, you can write that off. Is like, oh, you can write that off. Is like, oh, you can write that off. Is like, oh, that's her husband. He just wants her that's her husband. He just wants her that's her husband. He just wants her things. It's when he calls the counselor things. It's when he calls the counselor things. It's when he calls the counselor she had been seeing was like, "Um, do she had been seeing was like, "Um, do she had been seeing was like, "Um, do you have some do you have any notes? Can you have some do you have any notes? Can you have some do you have any notes? Can I get I was like, that's not that's not I get I was like, that's not that's not I get I was like, that's not that's not a thing you collect." a thing you collect." a thing you collect." >> Oh my gosh. Alyssa like paused. She was >> Oh my gosh. Alyssa like paused. She was >> Oh my gosh. Alyssa like paused. She was like, "He can't do that cuz HIPPA." And like, "He can't do that cuz HIPPA." And like, "He can't do that cuz HIPPA." And I was like, "I bet you anything she's a I was like, "I bet you anything she's a I was like, "I bet you anything she's a biblical counselor. She said what it biblical counselor. She said what it biblical counselor. She said what it said." And I was like I was like she said." And I was like I was like she said." And I was like I was like she could hand them over. And then she's could hand them over. And then she's could hand them over. And then she's like well because I'm a biblical like well because I'm a biblical like well because I'm a biblical counselor I don't need notes. I counselor I don't need notes. I counselor I don't need notes. I [laughter] was like you know [laughter] was like you know [laughter] was like you know you know that works too.

you know that works too. you know that works too. >> That's when I was like oh boo you're >> That's when I was like oh boo you're >> That's when I was like oh boo you're trying and the way trying and the way trying and the way >> and then he well and then we get some of >> and then he well and then we get some of >> and then he well and then we get some of our best quotes from our new hero wall our best quotes from our new hero wall our best quotes from our new hero wall inductee when he calls. inductee when he calls. inductee when he calls. >> Wait we got to talk about the sermon >> Wait we got to talk about the sermon >> Wait we got to talk about the sermon first. first. first. >> Yes. The second she dies. But I wanted >> Yes. The second she dies. But I wanted >> Yes. The second she dies. But I wanted he's notified on a Saturday and on he's notified on a Saturday and on he's notified on a Saturday and on Sunday Sunday Sunday >> he's like I'm still going to preach. >> he's like I'm still going to preach. >> he's like I'm still going to preach. >> And not only did he preach, >> And not only did he preach, >> And not only did he preach, >> he preaches the whole sermon. >> he preaches the whole sermon. >> he preaches the whole sermon. >> I didn't >> I didn't >> I didn't >> as usual. I didn't realize he didn't >> as usual. I didn't realize he didn't >> as usual. I didn't realize he didn't tell them till the end. tell them till the end. tell them till the end. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And he is acting >> And he is acting >> And he is acting >> totally normal. >> totally normal. >> totally normal. >> Totally fine. He's on the piano having >> Totally fine. He's on the piano having >> Totally fine. He's on the piano having the time of his life. They don't worry. the time of his life. They don't worry. the time of his life. They don't worry. do their entire parody song about oh do their entire parody song about oh do their entire parody song about oh what was it like not finding something what was it like not finding something what was it like not finding something till the middle of your life or like oh till the middle of your life or like oh till the middle of your life or like oh in the middle of my life I finally found in the middle of my life I finally found in the middle of my life I finally found what I was searching for and I was like what I was searching for and I was like what I was searching for and I was like what was that what was that what was that and then at the very end he's like we're and then at the very end he's like we're and then at the very end he's like we're not going to have an altar call we're not going to have an altar call we're not going to have an altar call we're not going to pray with you guys at the not going to pray with you guys at the not going to pray with you guys at the end instead I'm going to announce that end instead I'm going to announce that end instead I'm going to announce that my wife Micah has died it was my wife Micah has died it was my wife Micah has died it was selfinduced selfinduced selfinduced >> I don't want you guys to >> I don't want you guys to >> I don't want you guys to >> no questions please >> no questions please >> no questions please >> ask questions I want you to leave >> ask questions I want you to leave >> ask questions I want you to leave quietly, not talk to each other here on quietly, not talk to each other here on quietly, not talk to each other here on the property, and like just know that the property, and like just know that the property, and like just know that this happened. And like this is this is this happened. And like this is this is this happened. And like this is this is the point and Justin graciously reminded the point and Justin graciously reminded the point and Justin graciously reminded me that he was the one who was like, me that he was the one who was like, me that he was the one who was like, "Have you seen this sermon when this "Have you seen this sermon when this "Have you seen this sermon when this case initially happened?"

case initially happened?" case initially happened?" >> This is when I remember seeing this case >> This is when I remember seeing this case >> This is when I remember seeing this case pop up was like, "What is he doing?" pop up was like, "What is he doing?" pop up was like, "What is he doing?" Because like again, like I've I've been Because like again, like I've I've been Because like again, like I've I've been in these services like when there's in these services like when there's in these services like when there's something to say like you you do have to something to say like you you do have to something to say like you you do have to like time it well, but this is like time it well, but this is like time it well, but this is >> bonkers. the fact that he was on the >> bonkers. the fact that he was on the >> bonkers. the fact that he was on the stage doing music that morning. The fact stage doing music that morning. The fact stage doing music that morning. The fact that he was on stage teaching that that he was on stage teaching that that he was on stage teaching that morning. I think this also talks a lot morning. I think this also talks a lot morning. I think this also talks a lot to like speaks a lot to like the to like speaks a lot to like the to like speaks a lot to like the structure of the church. Like no one was structure of the church. Like no one was structure of the church. Like no one was going to tell him he couldn't do this. going to tell him he couldn't do this. going to tell him he couldn't do this. >> Yeah. And so he got up and did the >> Yeah. And so he got up and did the >> Yeah. And so he got up and did the entire thing because he he had to get entire thing because he he had to get entire thing because he he had to get out he got out his narrative and then he out he got out his narrative and then he out he got out his narrative and then he proceeded to do that with everyone. The proceeded to do that with everyone. The proceeded to do that with everyone. The text messages he was sending people were text messages he was sending people were text messages he was sending people were I mean you like the people talk about I mean you like the people talk about I mean you like the people talk about all the time catch a liar when they're all the time catch a liar when they're all the time catch a liar when they're like overexplaining like overexplaining like overexplaining where he's like she has passed I've been where he's like she has passed I've been where he's like she has passed I've been telling her for months like oh her telling her for months like oh her telling her for months like oh her family got involved I'm like oh no family got involved I'm like oh no family got involved I'm like oh no >> and also there's a moment where like you >> and also there's a moment where like you >> and also there's a moment where like you see him you see some of the text see him you see some of the text see him you see some of the text messages that he's sending to like her messages that he's sending to like her messages that he's sending to like her friends or like people in their circle friends or like people in their circle friends or like people in their circle and it's the same like he's copy pasting and it's the same like he's copy pasting and it's the same like he's copy pasting because he can't keep telling different because he can't keep telling different because he can't keep telling different like that's the only way he can keep his like that's the only way he can keep his like that's the only way he can keep his lies straight right like lies straight right like lies straight right like >> it was it was just like so calculated.

>> it was it was just like so calculated. >> it was it was just like so calculated. So he is used to manipulating everyone So he is used to manipulating everyone So he is used to manipulating everyone in his circle. Like he can play the in his circle. Like he can play the in his circle. Like he can play the victim. He has them down. But not her. victim. He has them down. But not her. victim. He has them down. But not her. >> He cannot do that with Miss >> He cannot do that with Miss >> He cannot do that with Miss who as an attorney tapes the call. who as an attorney tapes the call. who as an attorney tapes the call. >> Oh my god, I love her so much. >> Oh my god, I love her so much. >> Oh my god, I love her so much. >> And the call is [snorts] so good. He >> And the call is [snorts] so good. He >> And the call is [snorts] so good. He calls and is like, "Hey, you were her I calls and is like, "Hey, you were her I calls and is like, "Hey, you were her I think you were her lawyer." So, and think you were her lawyer." So, and think you were her lawyer." So, and before he could even continue with his before he could even continue with his before he could even continue with his bizarre request, she goes, "Mm- Let's bizarre request, she goes, "Mm- Let's bizarre request, she goes, "Mm- Let's stop right there." You probably have the stop right there." You probably have the stop right there." You probably have the exact quote. I'm going to paraphrase, exact quote. I'm going to paraphrase, exact quote. I'm going to paraphrase, but she's like, "You don't think she but she's like, "You don't think she but she's like, "You don't think she hired me. You know, she hired me cuz you hired me. You know, she hired me cuz you hired me. You know, she hired me cuz you got served divorce papers two days ago." got served divorce papers two days ago." got served divorce papers two days ago." >> So, let's just start off with the truth. >> So, let's just start off with the truth. >> So, let's just start off with the truth. >> Yeah. And and that that's when I was >> Yeah. And and that that's when I was >> Yeah. And and that that's when I was like, "She is my new I want to be her like, "She is my new I want to be her like, "She is my new I want to be her when I grow up. She is my new hero." And when I grow up. She is my new hero." And when I grow up. She is my new hero." And [laughter] he's like, "Yeah, [laughter] he's like, "Yeah, [laughter] he's like, "Yeah, you know what? That's I think I did see you know what? That's I think I did see you know what? That's I think I did see your name." your name." your name." >> And then he's like, "I oh." He says, >> And then he's like, "I oh." He says, >> And then he's like, "I oh." He says, "Clearly, by the way, you've been "Clearly, by the way, you've been "Clearly, by the way, you've been talking to me. You've gotten one side of talking to me. You've gotten one side of talking to me. You've gotten one side of the story." So, this is when he's like, the story." So, this is when he's like, the story." So, this is when he's like, "I I'm going to get her on my side."

"I I'm going to get her on my side." "I I'm going to get her on my side." That does not happen. That does not happen. That does not happen. >> And so, when that doesn't work, he goes >> And so, when that doesn't work, he goes >> And so, when that doesn't work, he goes into the tears. It's like the same tears into the tears. It's like the same tears into the tears. It's like the same tears that we got on the grass, that we got on the grass, that we got on the grass, >> which distinctly I had this moment where >> which distinctly I had this moment where >> which distinctly I had this moment where I was like, "Oh, I I I've seen this I was like, "Oh, I I I've seen this I was like, "Oh, I I I've seen this before." And I want to like I want to before." And I want to like I want to before." And I want to like I want to play you a clip because I I made myself play you a clip because I I made myself play you a clip because I I made myself chuckle. Okay, so chuckle. Okay, so chuckle. Okay, so this is him to her. this is him to her. this is him to her. >> She had to kill herself many times over >> She had to kill herself many times over >> She had to kill herself many times over the years before. the years before. the years before. And I was able to stop her and get her And I was able to stop her and get her And I was able to stop her and get her to get her to leave him and get her her to get her to leave him and get her her to get her to leave him and get her her daughter. She left She left everybody. everybody. everybody. >> So it's like the >> So it's like the >> So it's like the >> um Have you seen Win or Lose? >> um Have you seen Win or Lose? >> um Have you seen Win or Lose? >> No, but you've talked about the show so >> No, but you've talked about the show so >> No, but you've talked about the show so many times. many times. many times. >> It's a kid show on Disney that I think >> It's a kid show on Disney that I think >> It's a kid show on Disney that I think is one of the best kid shows it's made is one of the best kid shows it's made is one of the best kid shows it's made in forever. And we get this moment. in forever. And we get this moment. in forever. And we get this moment. >> I did. Just one sec.

>> What was I doing? [laughter] >> What was I doing? [laughter] >> As soon as I I heard that, I was like >> As soon as I I heard that, I was like >> As soon as I I heard that, I was like up. up. up. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] So, he tries the tears. The tears don't So, he tries the tears. The tears don't So, he tries the tears. The tears don't work. He turns those off. to be to be work. He turns those off. to be to be work. He turns those off. to be to be clear, like coming back to like why he's clear, like coming back to like why he's clear, like coming back to like why he's calling Regina Ward Micah's divorce calling Regina Ward Micah's divorce calling Regina Ward Micah's divorce attorney is because he's like, "I really attorney is because he's like, "I really attorney is because he's like, "I really need every single thing that she ever need every single thing that she ever need every single thing that she ever gave you supporting why she wants to gave you supporting why she wants to gave you supporting why she wants to divorce me." Yes. Like he's like, "Just divorce me." Yes. Like he's like, "Just divorce me." Yes. Like he's like, "Just get just why don't you just hand me her get just why don't you just hand me her get just why don't you just hand me her file?" And she's like, which is an file?" And she's like, which is an file?" And she's like, which is an insane thing to think would happen. insane thing to think would happen. insane thing to think would happen. Like, Like, Like, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] but attorney client privilege match. But but attorney client privilege match. But but attorney client privilege match. But I yeah, I think he still thought he had I yeah, I think he still thought he had I yeah, I think he still thought he had a lot of authority because they were a lot of authority because they were a lot of authority because they were still married before she died, which still married before she died, which still married before she died, which actually did give him a lot of actually did give him a lot of actually did give him a lot of authority. There's been a ton of legal authority. There's been a ton of legal authority. There's been a ton of legal stuff since. Now, luckily, she didn't stuff since. Now, luckily, she didn't stuff since. Now, luckily, she didn't turn her file over to him. She turned it turn her file over to him. She turned it turn her file over to him. She turned it over to the FBI along with I mean, she over to the FBI along with I mean, she over to the FBI along with I mean, she downloaded like [snorts] hundreds downloaded like [snorts] hundreds downloaded like [snorts] hundreds >> 511 sermons. And that is when I was >> 511 sermons. And that is when I was >> 511 sermons. And that is when I was like, you [laughter] I love you.

like, you [laughter] I love you. like, you [laughter] I love you. And that's how I mean that's how we get And that's how I mean that's how we get And that's how I mean that's how we get this like treasure trove in the this like treasure trove in the this like treasure trove in the documentary and get such like real documentary and get such like real documentary and get such like real pictures of who Michael was in life, who pictures of who Michael was in life, who pictures of who Michael was in life, who JP is, who like what he talks about in JP is, who like what he talks about in JP is, who like what he talks about in his sermons. his sermons. his sermons. >> So that it is a little bit how the >> So that it is a little bit how the >> So that it is a little bit how the documentary leaves off is that there is documentary leaves off is that there is documentary leaves off is that there is some kind of FBI investigation. We hear some kind of FBI investigation. We hear some kind of FBI investigation. We hear from people, yes, I've been talked to. I from people, yes, I've been talked to. I from people, yes, I've been talked to. I do know the FBI got I don't know why for do know the FBI got I don't know why for do know the FBI got I don't know why for sure but jurisdiction because we're sure but jurisdiction because we're sure but jurisdiction because we're talking about two separate cases like talking about two separate cases like talking about two separate cases like it's not surprising to me [snorts] it's not surprising to me [snorts] it's not surprising to me [snorts] >> and and he has now >> and and he has now >> and and he has now >> federal charges >> federal charges >> federal charges >> federal charges >> federal charges >> federal charges >> and those are for >> and those are for >> and those are for >> lying to them during the course of their >> lying to them during the course of their >> lying to them during the course of their investigation [clears throat] and then investigation [clears throat] and then investigation [clears throat] and then for cyberstalking for cyberstalking for cyberstalking >> and those are still ongoing >> and those are still ongoing >> and those are still ongoing >> cuz he was just arrested in like >> cuz he was just arrested in like >> cuz he was just arrested in like December 2025 for that December 2025 for that December 2025 for that >> and they s they did a search of his home >> and they s they did a search of his home >> and they s they did a search of his home so again all like computers, phones Like so again all like computers, phones Like so again all like computers, phones Like all of the things that I'm I'm wanting I all of the things that I'm I'm wanting I all of the things that I'm I'm wanting I feel feel feel >> exist somewhere in evidence. >> exist somewhere in evidence. >> exist somewhere in evidence. >> Yes. Now, is there anything else that >> Yes. Now, is there anything else that >> Yes. Now, is there anything else that you want to talk about before I get to you want to talk about before I get to you want to talk about before I get to like like like >> my fun things?

>> my fun things? >> my fun things? >> I don't know if you want to talk about >> I don't know if you want to talk about >> I don't know if you want to talk about the news nation sit down where he brings the news nation sit down where he brings the news nation sit down where he brings out the binder out the binder out the binder >> his of his evidence >> his of his evidence >> his of his evidence >> evidence which like evidence for what >> evidence which like evidence for what >> evidence which like evidence for what sir? There's that weirdness but sir? There's that weirdness but sir? There's that weirdness but >> yeah it wasn't like hey I kept all her >> yeah it wasn't like hey I kept all her >> yeah it wasn't like hey I kept all her medical records. It was like this is my medical records. It was like this is my medical records. It was like this is my evidence. And also like putting those evidence. And also like putting those evidence. And also like putting those things in those plastic sheet protectors things in those plastic sheet protectors things in those plastic sheet protectors is a pain in the ass. He put work into is a pain in the ass. He put work into is a pain in the ass. He put work into >> I didn't even notice that they were in >> I didn't even notice that they were in >> I didn't even notice that they were in sheet protectors. sheet protectors. sheet protectors. >> They're in like those plastic slips >> They're in like those plastic slips >> They're in like those plastic slips >> for me. It was the moment >> for me. It was the moment >> for me. It was the moment >> he does the same thing, right? Where he >> he does the same thing, right? Where he >> he does the same thing, right? Where he like tries to cry, but then I love this like tries to cry, but then I love this like tries to cry, but then I love this guy cuz he's like what's going on? Like guy cuz he's like what's going on? Like guy cuz he's like what's going on? Like he's like I'm not going to like call it he's like I'm not going to like call it he's like I'm not going to like call it off just because you're crying. Like off just because you're crying. Like off just because you're crying. Like we're going to like we're going to like we're going to like >> Yeah. The guy interviewing him is like >> Yeah. The guy interviewing him is like >> Yeah. The guy interviewing him is like there's something like your face is there's something like your face is there's something like your face is doing something [laughter] essentially. doing something [laughter] essentially. doing something [laughter] essentially. >> So but then when he's like when he asked >> So but then when he's like when he asked >> So but then when he's like when he asked >> is there anything you would have done >> is there anything you would have done >> is there anything you would have done differently? reaction is like differently? reaction is like differently? reaction is like >> that's a really good question. That's a >> that's a really good question. That's a >> that's a really good question. That's a really good question. That's a really really good question. That's a really really good question. That's a really good question. good question. good question. >> It's anger. >> It's anger. >> It's anger. >> And then he goes, I would never involve >> And then he goes, I would never involve >> And then he goes, I would never involve her family in any of her mental health her family in any of her mental health her family in any of her mental health problems. problems. problems. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Out of all the things you could have Out of all the things you could have Out of all the things you could have said, I mean, and knowing what you did said, I mean, and knowing what you did said, I mean, and knowing what you did to her, to her, to her, the like the blanket statement of us the like the blanket statement of us the like the blanket statement of us like, I wish I could have been a safe like, I wish I could have been a safe like, I wish I could have been a safe place for her. I wish I could like you place for her. I wish I could like you place for her. I wish I could like you could have done any sort of like blanket could have done any sort of like blanket could have done any sort of like blanket generic statement and like no one would generic statement and like no one would generic statement and like no one would have batted an I but you come out with have batted an I but you come out with have batted an I but you come out with that.

that. that. Yeah. I mean I could there's like a Yeah. I mean I could there's like a Yeah. I mean I could there's like a million more things I want to talk about million more things I want to talk about million more things I want to talk about but what I want to talk about more is but what I want to talk about more is but what I want to talk about more is that stack of paperwork you just picked that stack of paperwork you just picked that stack of paperwork you just picked up. up. up. >> Yeah. I want to So this stuff is known. >> Yeah. I want to So this stuff is known. >> Yeah. I want to So this stuff is known. It's not like I uncovered this but for It's not like I uncovered this but for It's not like I uncovered this but for length purposes or legal purpose. I length purposes or legal purpose. I length purposes or legal purpose. I don't know why Netflix didn't include don't know why Netflix didn't include don't know why Netflix didn't include what I think there's a handful of things what I think there's a handful of things what I think there's a handful of things that I found really interesting. that I found really interesting. that I found really interesting. So, one of the biggest things that I as So, one of the biggest things that I as So, one of the biggest things that I as I was watching this, I kept waiting for, I was watching this, I kept waiting for, I was watching this, I kept waiting for, right? Like I'm like you get these right? Like I'm like you get these right? Like I'm like you get these sitdowns with people and I'm like when sitdowns with people and I'm like when sitdowns with people and I'm like when are we getting his first wife? When are are we getting his first wife? When are are we getting his first wife? When are we getting Ally? we getting Ally? we getting Ally? >> Like we get nothing. I understand not >> Like we get nothing. I understand not >> Like we get nothing. I understand not having anything about his kids in the having anything about his kids in the having anything about his kids in the documentary like they have nothing% documentary like they have nothing% documentary like they have nothing% >> but I'm like she's like very silent in >> but I'm like she's like very silent in >> but I'm like she's like very silent in this. this. this. >> So I was like I mean either she's you >> So I was like I mean either she's you >> So I was like I mean either she's you know without knowing anything. I was know without knowing anything. I was know without knowing anything. I was like is she still like deep in this like is she still like deep in this like is she still like deep in this world? Is she like scared? I'm like a world? Is she like scared? I'm like a world? Is she like scared? I'm like a man like this couldn't have been an man like this couldn't have been an man like this couldn't have been an ideal husband one moment and then a ideal husband one moment and then a ideal husband one moment and then a completely different person the next completely different person the next completely different person the next >> and probably isn't like a joy to >> and probably isn't like a joy to >> and probably isn't like a joy to co-parent with.

co-parent with. co-parent with. >> Yeah. So she has filed an affidavit back >> Yeah. So she has filed an affidavit back >> Yeah. So she has filed an affidavit back in 2024. So this is when I think they in 2024. So this is when I think they in 2024. So this is when I think they were working out some like custody were working out some like custody were working out some like custody arrangements arrangements arrangements >> when in 2024 cuz that's also the year >> when in 2024 cuz that's also the year >> when in 2024 cuz that's also the year that Micah died. that Micah died. that Micah died. >> This is May. So this is she's basically >> This is May. So this is she's basically >> This is May. So this is she's basically saying this is like right after Micah saying this is like right after Micah saying this is like right after Micah dies. She's like I don't feel safe and dies. She's like I don't feel safe and dies. She's like I don't feel safe and and some of it is a little bit like hey and some of it is a little bit like hey and some of it is a little bit like hey he's getting all these threats too, he's getting all these threats too, he's getting all these threats too, right? right? right? >> Um I don't want my my kids around that. >> Um I don't want my my kids around that. >> Um I don't want my my kids around that. But in doing so, she has to talk about But in doing so, she has to talk about But in doing so, she has to talk about all the concerns that she had. Um, one all the concerns that she had. Um, one all the concerns that she had. Um, one of the things that I found really of the things that I found really of the things that I found really interesting is that she started in 2015 interesting is that she started in 2015 interesting is that she started in 2015 as his assistant to pastoral duties, as his assistant to pastoral duties, as his assistant to pastoral duties, which is the same kind of role that he which is the same kind of role that he which is the same kind of role that he placed Micah in. placed Micah in. placed Micah in. >> Were they already married at the time? >> Were they already married at the time? >> Were they already married at the time? >> I don't know the year that they got >> I don't know the year that they got >> I don't know the year that they got married. It's not in this document. I'd married. It's not in this document. I'd married. It's not in this document. I'd have to look it up. So, in this she have to look it up. So, in this she have to look it up. So, in this she alleges it says um it's number seven in alleges it says um it's number seven in alleges it says um it's number seven in the affidavit. JP told me that in the affidavit. JP told me that in the affidavit. JP told me that in addition to his affair with Micah, he addition to his affair with Micah, he addition to his affair with Micah, he had employed prostitutes and been had employed prostitutes and been had employed prostitutes and been sexually inappropriate with several sexually inappropriate with several sexually inappropriate with several underage female members of our church.

underage female members of our church. underage female members of our church. He blamed his immoral sexual behaviors He blamed his immoral sexual behaviors He blamed his immoral sexual behaviors on the sexual abuse that he experienced on the sexual abuse that he experienced on the sexual abuse that he experienced for years by his father, Wayne Miller. for years by his father, Wayne Miller. for years by his father, Wayne Miller. She says that when she found out about She says that when she found out about She says that when she found out about this like this these minors, she this like this these minors, she this like this these minors, she actually went to the police and she's actually went to the police and she's actually went to the police and she's they're basically like nobody's going to they're basically like nobody's going to they're basically like nobody's going to believe you because these minors don't believe you because these minors don't believe you because these minors don't want to come forward. you're like you're want to come forward. you're like you're want to come forward. you're like you're divorced from this guy, you're talking divorced from this guy, you're talking divorced from this guy, you're talking about custody, like that's not going to about custody, like that's not going to about custody, like that's not going to like hold up. So, she's like I I like hold up. So, she's like I I like hold up. So, she's like I I couldn't do anything. But I did try to couldn't do anything. But I did try to couldn't do anything. But I did try to report it. report it. report it. >> And like I want to pause for like a >> And like I want to pause for like a >> And like I want to pause for like a second and be like minors coming forward second and be like minors coming forward second and be like minors coming forward with abuse is already with abuse is already with abuse is already incredibly difficult. I feel like I've incredibly difficult. I feel like I've incredibly difficult. I feel like I've said this a lot like everything is very said this a lot like everything is very said this a lot like everything is very difficult in this circle where your difficult in this circle where your difficult in this circle where your value is placed on your purity, where value is placed on your purity, where value is placed on your purity, where your value is placed on your body and your value is placed on your body and your value is placed on your body and how much you are untouched. Coming how much you are untouched. Coming how much you are untouched. Coming forward is forward is forward is It's how they It's how they keep you It's how they It's how they keep you It's how they It's how they keep you quiet. quiet. quiet. >> That was impress like as >> That was impress like as >> That was impress like as >> because it doesn't matter that you >> because it doesn't matter that you >> because it doesn't matter that you didn't want it, didn't want it, didn't want it, >> right? As difficult as this is in >> right? As difficult as this is in >> right? As difficult as this is in general in any circle, in these circles, general in any circle, in these circles, general in any circle, in these circles, >> it is marking yourself >> it is marking yourself >> it is marking yourself >> unclean.

>> unclean. >> unclean. >> Unclean. It's marking yourself dirty. >> Unclean. It's marking yourself dirty. >> Unclean. It's marking yourself dirty. >> Even if you were assaulted and you >> Even if you were assaulted and you >> Even if you were assaulted and you kicked and scre like you know whatever kicked and scre like you know whatever kicked and scre like you know whatever they perceive as no, you are still less they perceive as no, you are still less they perceive as no, you are still less than. than. than. >> Yeah. Whether it's said in those words >> Yeah. Whether it's said in those words >> Yeah. Whether it's said in those words or not, it is heavily implied. And so or not, it is heavily implied. And so or not, it is heavily implied. And so like that's devastating. like that's devastating. like that's devastating. >> She talks about um an occasion when she >> She talks about um an occasion when she >> She talks about um an occasion when she was picking up one of their kids that was picking up one of their kids that was picking up one of their kids that there were holes in their walls. There there were holes in their walls. There there were holes in their walls. There were hinges off the doors and pieces of were hinges off the doors and pieces of were hinges off the doors and pieces of paper taped to the wall with negative paper taped to the wall with negative paper taped to the wall with negative affirmations about Micah. affirmations about Micah. affirmations about Micah. Now he had like sent her texts that were Now he had like sent her texts that were Now he had like sent her texts that were like, "Oh, I just so you know, Micah like, "Oh, I just so you know, Micah like, "Oh, I just so you know, Micah punched those holes in the walls." I'm punched those holes in the walls." I'm punched those holes in the walls." I'm not like not like not like >> losing it or anything, but I'm like, >> losing it or anything, but I'm like, >> losing it or anything, but I'm like, "Oh, did she also write those like "Oh, did she also write those like "Oh, did she also write those like terrible things about herself?" Doubt terrible things about herself?" Doubt terrible things about herself?" Doubt it. it. it. And she also has in here um when I talk And she also has in here um when I talk And she also has in here um when I talk about guns and stuff and knowing that about guns and stuff and knowing that about guns and stuff and knowing that like he was at least using them, there's like he was at least using them, there's like he was at least using them, there's a point in here where she says that he a point in here where she says that he a point in here where she says that he informed me that he was getting into informed me that he was getting into informed me that he was getting into buying guns and shooting. buying guns and shooting. buying guns and shooting. >> Then I read something that I thought was >> Then I read something that I thought was >> Then I read something that I thought was interesting. As a convicted felon, he is interesting. As a convicted felon, he is interesting. As a convicted felon, he is not allowed to have weapons. However, not allowed to have weapons. However, not allowed to have weapons. However, allegedly he managed to get a police allegedly he managed to get a police allegedly he managed to get a police chief from the church to assist with chief from the church to assist with chief from the church to assist with expuning his record. Further, he was expuning his record. Further, he was expuning his record. Further, he was given a special police badge that says given a special police badge that says given a special police badge that says pastor.

pastor. pastor. Is that a badge type? To utilize if he Is that a badge type? To utilize if he Is that a badge type? To utilize if he ever gets pulled over. This is deeply ever gets pulled over. This is deeply ever gets pulled over. This is deeply concerning when we want to talk about concerning when we want to talk about concerning when we want to talk about like a relation he has to authorities. like a relation he has to authorities. like a relation he has to authorities. >> Let's back up. He's a convicted felon. >> Let's back up. He's a convicted felon. >> Let's back up. He's a convicted felon. >> Uh yes. >> Uh yes. >> Uh yes. >> Four. So in 1998, >> Four. So in 1998, >> Four. So in 1998, he ran over a woman twice he ran over a woman twice he ran over a woman twice while she was like she had like sand was while she was like she had like sand was while she was like she had like sand was doing something with sandbags or doing something with sandbags or doing something with sandbags or whatever. And so he got in trouble for whatever. And so he got in trouble for whatever. And so he got in trouble for that. And he he has like other charges that. And he he has like other charges that. And he he has like other charges like when I look at his um like report like when I look at his um like report like when I look at his um like report online, there are like online, there are like online, there are like >> like background check or whatever. Yeah. >> like background check or whatever. Yeah. >> like background check or whatever. Yeah. >> Yeah. There are like other things too, >> Yeah. There are like other things too, >> Yeah. There are like other things too, but like that's the big one which I was but like that's the big one which I was but like that's the big one which I was like I we did not even touch on in the like I we did not even touch on in the like I we did not even touch on in the documentary. I did not realize that this documentary. I did not realize that this documentary. I did not realize that this is that man's history. is that man's history. is that man's history. >> The other thing I did not realize is he >> The other thing I did not realize is he >> The other thing I did not realize is he was married to Ally, but and they had was married to Ally, but and they had was married to Ally, but and they had their kids. He had another relationship. their kids. He had another relationship. their kids. He had another relationship. I don't know if they were married. I I don't know if they were married. I I don't know if they were married. I don't think so. with a woman before that don't think so. with a woman before that don't think so. with a woman before that and had another kid who was like a grown and had another kid who was like a grown and had another kid who was like a grown man at the time that all of this went man at the time that all of this went man at the time that all of this went down. And in down. And in down. And in >> right because like just like I want to >> right because like just like I want to >> right because like just like I want to say they mention it in the documentary say they mention it in the documentary say they mention it in the documentary when Micah and JP got together. I don't when Micah and JP got together. I don't when Micah and JP got together. I don't know if they it was when they got know if they it was when they got know if they it was when they got married or not but like the age split married or not but like the age split married or not but like the age split was like 21 and 36.

was like 21 and 36. was like 21 and 36. >> Yeah. 15. Yeah. >> Yeah. 15. Yeah. >> Yeah. 15. Yeah. >> He's like 15 years older than her. >> He's like 15 years older than her. >> He's like 15 years older than her. >> Yeah. So, he has a grown son, which I >> Yeah. So, he has a grown son, which I >> Yeah. So, he has a grown son, which I can get to more, but like his son has a can get to more, but like his son has a can get to more, but like his son has a domestic violence like there I found a domestic violence like there I found a domestic violence like there I found a news article that he was arrested in news article that he was arrested in news article that he was arrested in like January of 24 for domestic like January of 24 for domestic like January of 24 for domestic violence. So, also an interesting person violence. So, also an interesting person violence. So, also an interesting person that like we don't even not even that like we don't even not even that like we don't even not even mentioned anywhere. Yeah. mentioned anywhere. Yeah. mentioned anywhere. Yeah. >> Might not have anything to do with >> Might not have anything to do with >> Might not have anything to do with anything, but not I was surprised to anything, but not I was surprised to anything, but not I was surprised to learn it. One of the last things that learn it. One of the last things that learn it. One of the last things that Allison said that I thought was Allison said that I thought was Allison said that I thought was interesting is she says, "I was married interesting is she says, "I was married interesting is she says, "I was married to JP for 16 years. Although my story to JP for 16 years. Although my story to JP for 16 years. Although my story and what I lived through with JP is and what I lived through with JP is and what I lived through with JP is different in some ways, many of the different in some ways, many of the different in some ways, many of the details shared with me by Micah, cuz details shared with me by Micah, cuz details shared with me by Micah, cuz Micah had been like confiding in her and Micah had been like confiding in her and Micah had been like confiding in her and asking for help are so similar to my own asking for help are so similar to my own asking for help are so similar to my own experiences with JP that I know she was experiences with JP that I know she was experiences with JP that I know she was being truthful. being truthful. being truthful. >> So, I'm sure there's someone out there >> So, I'm sure there's someone out there >> So, I'm sure there's someone out there who's like, "Oh, you know, is she making who's like, "Oh, you know, is she making who's like, "Oh, you know, is she making up these stories or was she as she was up these stories or was she as she was up these stories or was she as she was trying to get divorced or whatever?" And trying to get divorced or whatever?" And trying to get divorced or whatever?" And you have you have you have >> you have Allison who is saying, >> you have Allison who is saying, >> you have Allison who is saying, >> I experienced the same thing. >> I experienced the same thing. >> I experienced the same thing. >> I know you're not lying. Yeah. what >> I know you're not lying. Yeah. what >> I know you're not lying. Yeah. what you're describing.

you're describing. you're describing. Been there, done that. Been there, done that. Been there, done that. >> So, >> So, >> So, she talks about his father, Wayne. Wayne she talks about his father, Wayne. Wayne she talks about his father, Wayne. Wayne is super interesting, and this goes to is super interesting, and this goes to is super interesting, and this goes to like the creation of the church, where I like the creation of the church, where I like the creation of the church, where I told you I saw all like the told you I saw all like the told you I saw all like the similarities. similarities. similarities. So, he starts this church in South So, he starts this church in South So, he starts this church in South Carolina. The church ends up going on to Carolina. The church ends up going on to Carolina. The church ends up going on to have like a television network. It has a have like a television network. It has a have like a television network. It has a Bible college. It has a ministry Bible college. It has a ministry Bible college. It has a ministry overseas which is just like one for one overseas which is just like one for one overseas which is just like one for one for one for one for one >> when the church was founded and maybe >> when the church was founded and maybe >> when the church was founded and maybe you don't know this was it connected to you don't know this was it connected to you don't know this was it connected to denomination. denomination. denomination. >> Mm-m. Okay. So, one of the things that >> Mm-m. Okay. So, one of the things that >> Mm-m. Okay. So, one of the things that they bring up when when we talked about they bring up when when we talked about they bring up when when we talked about the structure earlier is the structure earlier is the structure earlier is this comes up in one of the uh lawsuit this comes up in one of the uh lawsuit this comes up in one of the uh lawsuit that is I know all my papers one of the that is I know all my papers one of the that is I know all my papers one of the lawsuit that is filed in 2025 is they're lawsuit that is filed in 2025 is they're lawsuit that is filed in 2025 is they're like you'll hear these different like you'll hear these different like you'll hear these different entities reference these like three entities reference these like three entities reference these like three different church names. They're like different church names. They're like different church names. They're like they're all the same thing. They're all they're all the same thing. They're all they're all the same thing. They're all owned and controlled by Wayne Williams's owned and controlled by Wayne Williams's owned and controlled by Wayne Williams's dad.

dad. dad. >> I can think of three different names, >> I can think of three different names, >> I can think of three different names, but that's okay. [laughter] and John Paul and John Paul >> and so a lot of the name changes came >> and so a lot of the name changes came >> and so a lot of the name changes came out of scandal. out of scandal. out of scandal. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Because so so he had his first church >> Because so so he had his first church >> Because so so he had his first church and there were this this big expose and there were this this big expose and there were this this big expose where there were these like sexual abuse where there were these like sexual abuse where there were these like sexual abuse allegations with young people. And when allegations with young people. And when allegations with young people. And when that happens this is like the 80s. It's that happens this is like the 80s. It's that happens this is like the 80s. It's really easy. There's no internet really easy. There's no internet really easy. There's no internet >> to just so they pack up, they move to >> to just so they pack up, they move to >> to just so they pack up, they move to Myrtle Beach, they call it a different Myrtle Beach, they call it a different Myrtle Beach, they call it a different church. They started they have a some church. They started they have a some church. They started they have a some congregation come some some new people congregation come some some new people congregation come some some new people and they start over and then there is and they start over and then there is and they start over and then there is another incident in which Wayne it another incident in which Wayne it another incident in which Wayne it exposes himself to an undercover officer exposes himself to an undercover officer exposes himself to an undercover officer >> and that's the one that we probably see >> and that's the one that we probably see >> and that's the one that we probably see the article about in in the documentary. the article about in in the documentary. the article about in in the documentary. >> I don't know which one they showed in >> I don't know which one they showed in >> I don't know which one they showed in the documentary but then the documentary but then the documentary but then >> cuz there's like a news article where >> cuz there's like a news article where >> cuz there's like a news article where like he is named as like like he is named as like like he is named as like >> the other one was in the news too >> the other one was in the news too >> the other one was in the news too because it was like this five-part because it was like this five-part because it was like this five-part investigative series that was done. investigative series that was done. investigative series that was done. >> This one seemed like a little bit more >> This one seemed like a little bit more >> This one seemed like a little bit more like a sting so that sounds like more like a sting so that sounds like more like a sting so that sounds like more like this incident. So, he gets in like this incident. So, he gets in like this incident. So, he gets in trouble for that. And then I don't know trouble for that. And then I don't know trouble for that. And then I don't know when like solid rock becomes a thing.

when like solid rock becomes a thing. when like solid rock becomes a thing. It's a little bit fuzzy to me. But then It's a little bit fuzzy to me. But then It's a little bit fuzzy to me. But then that's when JP, which I also think is that's when JP, which I also think is that's when JP, which I also think is interesting when they were talking about interesting when they were talking about interesting when they were talking about in the documentary JP becoming a pastor in the documentary JP becoming a pastor in the documentary JP becoming a pastor was like, "Oh, he just wanted to like was like, "Oh, he just wanted to like was like, "Oh, he just wanted to like he's the pastor's son he's the pastor's son he's the pastor's son >> who Oh, they also had a school which has >> who Oh, they also had a school which has >> who Oh, they also had a school which has someone who went to the school owned by someone who went to the school owned by someone who went to the school owned by my church." I was like, "What in the my church." I was like, "What in the my church." I was like, "What in the heck?" [laughter] And the school they heck?" [laughter] And the school they heck?" [laughter] And the school they were like isn't wasn't super like were like isn't wasn't super like were like isn't wasn't super like accredited. It was, we'll get into that accredited. It was, we'll get into that accredited. It was, we'll get into that in a second, but his dad has faced even in a second, but his dad has faced even in a second, but his dad has faced even in like recent years charges for um I in like recent years charges for um I in like recent years charges for um I think it was like a homeland security. think it was like a homeland security. think it was like a homeland security. >> What? >> What? >> What? >> Dude, I I can't make this stuff up. Hang >> Dude, I I can't make this stuff up. Hang >> Dude, I I can't make this stuff up. Hang on just a second. on just a second. on just a second. >> You have like invoices and emails and >> You have like invoices and emails and >> You have like invoices and emails and court [laughter] docs. This is insane. court [laughter] docs. This is insane. court [laughter] docs. This is insane. >> Yes. The Department of >> Yes. The Department of >> Yes. The Department of United States for the District of the United States for the District of the United States for the District of the South Carolina Florence Division. Nice South Carolina Florence Division. Nice South Carolina Florence Division. Nice of America. Either way, that he ends up of America. Either way, that he ends up of America. Either way, that he ends up pleading guilty to fraud in foreign pleading guilty to fraud in foreign pleading guilty to fraud in foreign labor contracting. So basically, labor contracting. So basically, labor contracting. So basically, >> oh no, >> oh no, >> oh no, >> he was bringing over people from other >> he was bringing over people from other >> he was bringing over people from other countries and promising them work within countries and promising them work within countries and promising them work within the church and was basically like not the church and was basically like not the church and was basically like not providing them even minimum minimum providing them even minimum minimum providing them even minimum minimum wage. They were getting like 25 bucks a wage. They were getting like 25 bucks a wage. They were getting like 25 bucks a day. They didn't have proper like day. They didn't have proper like day. They didn't have proper like housing. And he would basically even housing. And he would basically even housing. And he would basically even like the food was expired, which like like the food was expired, which like like the food was expired, which like don't get me started on that. I know don't get me started on that. I know don't get me started on that. I know that sounds crazy to people. Do you know that sounds crazy to people. Do you know that sounds crazy to people. Do you know how much expired food we had in the how much expired food we had in the how much expired food we had in the church? That was just like because it church? That was just like because it church? That was just like because it was free.

was free. was free. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But don't share the financials to know >> But don't share the financials to know >> But don't share the financials to know how much we're making because we how much we're making because we how much we're making because we apparently need expired food. Um and he apparently need expired food. Um and he apparently need expired food. Um and he would threaten them that if they would threaten them that if they would threaten them that if they >> deportation. >> deportation. >> deportation. >> Yeah. Yeah. So he [snorts] is like he is >> Yeah. Yeah. So he [snorts] is like he is >> Yeah. Yeah. So he [snorts] is like he is a hot mess in and of himself. There is a hot mess in and of himself. There is a hot mess in and of himself. There is this 2007 affidavit from his wife that I this 2007 affidavit from his wife that I this 2007 affidavit from his wife that I am dying to find where it is like am dying to find where it is like am dying to find where it is like referenced in different places where she referenced in different places where she referenced in different places where she talks about his control. talks about his control. talks about his control. >> So this would be JP's mom. >> So this would be JP's mom. >> So this would be JP's mom. >> Yeah. And she was like with him for a >> Yeah. And she was like with him for a >> Yeah. And she was like with him for a very long time, but she talks about his very long time, but she talks about his very long time, but she talks about his control over the family and over the control over the family and over the control over the family and over the congregation. And I would like love her congregation. And I would like love her congregation. And I would like love her perspective. perspective. perspective. So I get a lot of information about the So I get a lot of information about the So I get a lot of information about the churches that and how it is structured churches that and how it is structured churches that and how it is structured because in 2025 because in 2025 because in 2025 two Jane does came forward alleging two Jane does came forward alleging two Jane does came forward alleging sexual abuse that was allowed by JP and sexual abuse that was allowed by JP and sexual abuse that was allowed by JP and his dad Wayne basically in the church.

his dad Wayne basically in the church. his dad Wayne basically in the church. So, So, So, >> so >> so >> so Wayne and JP weren't the Wayne and JP weren't the Wayne and JP weren't the abusers? abusers? abusers? >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> they were. Well, >> they were. Well, >> they were. Well, >> or they or like someone Okay. >> or they or like someone Okay. >> or they or like someone Okay. >> But but like the the um >> But but like the the um >> But but like the the um >> they brought this to the church to be >> they brought this to the church to be >> they brought this to the church to be handled handled handled >> and JP and Wayne owned the church. I >> and JP and Wayne owned the church. I >> and JP and Wayne owned the church. I mean, that's the whole problem. And so, mean, that's the whole problem. And so, mean, that's the whole problem. And so, but they sue the church, too, because but they sue the church, too, because but they sue the church, too, because they're like board members there. they're like board members there. they're like board members there. There's no safety checks. You're not There's no safety checks. You're not There's no safety checks. You're not doing background checks. you know, doing background checks. you know, doing background checks. you know, there's nothing to like prevent this there's nothing to like prevent this there's nothing to like prevent this from happening or to history yet you're from happening or to history yet you're from happening or to history yet you're just allowing him better access to just allowing him better access to just allowing him better access to people. Yeah. And not putting anything people. Yeah. And not putting anything people. Yeah. And not putting anything in place. So basically in the Jane Doe number one So basically in the Jane Doe number one case, she alleges that she has this case, she alleges that she has this case, she alleges that she has this encounter with him when she's older with encounter with him when she's older with encounter with him when she's older with uh John Paul where he like sees her like uh John Paul where he like sees her like uh John Paul where he like sees her like hugs her and like puts his hand down her hugs her and like puts his hand down her hugs her and like puts his hand down her pants and she like confront like she pants and she like confront like she pants and she like confront like she pulls him aside after and she's like I pulls him aside after and she's like I pulls him aside after and she's like I mean she's embarrassed she doesn't want mean she's embarrassed she doesn't want mean she's embarrassed she doesn't want it and she's like what was that and he's it and she's like what was that and he's it and she's like what was that and he's like oh you know oh god the quote he like oh you know oh god the quote he like oh you know oh god the quote he brings in God again he's like ah God brings in God again he's like ah God brings in God again he's like ah God knows like we sin or some knows like we sin or some knows like we sin or some >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> And I'll take that paraphrase.

>> And I'll take that paraphrase. >> And I'll take that paraphrase. >> Thank you. And so she says that it it >> Thank you. And so she says that it it >> Thank you. And so she says that it it like brings back the this repressed like brings back the this repressed like brings back the this repressed memory that she had from when she was 15 memory that she had from when she was 15 memory that she had from when she was 15 at the church and JP was 19 and he got at the church and JP was 19 and he got at the church and JP was 19 and he got her alone and she alleges he raped her her alone and she alleges he raped her her alone and she alleges he raped her in his truck. But to your point of how in his truck. But to your point of how in his truck. But to your point of how that would be viewed by the church, she that would be viewed by the church, she that would be viewed by the church, she said she didn't know if anyone would said she didn't know if anyone would said she didn't know if anyone would believe her. She was mortified. she was believe her. She was mortified. she was believe her. She was mortified. she was and eventually completely repressed the and eventually completely repressed the and eventually completely repressed the memory until it came back. So memory until it came back. So memory until it came back. So >> until it came back when she's assaulted >> until it came back when she's assaulted >> until it came back when she's assaulted again. again. again. >> Correct. So she files that one first and >> Correct. So she files that one first and >> Correct. So she files that one first and then Jane do number two files. then Jane do number two files. then Jane do number two files. So this young woman says that JP was 19 So this young woman says that JP was 19 So this young woman says that JP was 19 or 20 in 1999 and he was a teacher at or 20 in 1999 and he was a teacher at or 20 in 1999 and he was a teacher at the school that the church ran. And this the school that the church ran. And this the school that the church ran. And this is this is where it talks about um how is this is where it talks about um how is this is where it talks about um how literally they say there were people literally they say there were people literally they say there were people literally taken off the street and literally taken off the street and literally taken off the street and passed off as teachers. Like they didn't passed off as teachers. Like they didn't passed off as teachers. Like they didn't have to have according to this like have to have according to this like have to have according to this like accreditation or anything like that. Um accreditation or anything like that. Um accreditation or anything like that. Um and so JP at 19 is a teacher in this and so JP at 19 is a teacher in this and so JP at 19 is a teacher in this school.

school. school. So in the fall of 1999, plaintiff was So in the fall of 1999, plaintiff was So in the fall of 1999, plaintiff was just 14 years old when her parents like just 14 years old when her parents like just 14 years old when her parents like put her in the school. Yeah. Cathedral put her in the school. Yeah. Cathedral put her in the school. Yeah. Cathedral Hall Academy. It's not a school, it's a Hall Academy. It's not a school, it's a Hall Academy. It's not a school, it's a trap. Many of the staff were simply trap. Many of the staff were simply trap. Many of the staff were simply members of the church or colleagues with members of the church or colleagues with members of the church or colleagues with no credentials. And she has no credentials. And she has no credentials. And she has this interaction with JP where he's like this interaction with JP where he's like this interaction with JP where he's like playing the piano. He asks if if she playing the piano. He asks if if she playing the piano. He asks if if she wants to. She declines. And as she's wants to. She declines. And as she's wants to. She declines. And as she's turning to leave, he pulls her into a turning to leave, he pulls her into a turning to leave, he pulls her into a hug. And she didn't have time to react hug. And she didn't have time to react hug. And she didn't have time to react before his hands move down her back past before his hands move down her back past before his hands move down her back past her waist under her clothing and touch her waist under her clothing and touch her waist under her clothing and touch her bare butt. She's like unsure of what her bare butt. She's like unsure of what her bare butt. She's like unsure of what to do. She told a teacher. instead of to do. She told a teacher. instead of to do. She told a teacher. instead of receiving help, she was sent to Wayne's receiving help, she was sent to Wayne's receiving help, she was sent to Wayne's office and when she arrived, JP is office and when she arrived, JP is office and when she arrived, JP is already there. already there. already there. >> So, just to be clear, like if she tells >> So, just to be clear, like if she tells >> So, just to be clear, like if she tells a teacher, the teacher is not only a teacher, the teacher is not only a teacher, the teacher is not only colleagues with the person this that did colleagues with the person this that did colleagues with the person this that did this, but is also their boss, this, but is also their boss, this, but is also their boss, >> right? Like a teacher is employed by the >> right? Like a teacher is employed by the >> right? Like a teacher is employed by the church by the school that is owned by church by the school that is owned by church by the school that is owned by the person who assaulted her and his the person who assaulted her and his the person who assaulted her and his father.

father. father. >> Well, I don't think, you know, he's >> Well, I don't think, you know, he's >> Well, I don't think, you know, he's still the pastor's son at that point, still the pastor's son at that point, still the pastor's son at that point, but yeah, it's all in the family. but yeah, it's all in the family. but yeah, it's all in the family. >> Yeah. So he they she gets pulled into >> Yeah. So he they she gets pulled into >> Yeah. So he they she gets pulled into the office where Wayne says quote you the office where Wayne says quote you the office where Wayne says quote you will not lie about my son and she was will not lie about my son and she was will not lie about my son and she was forced to write the words I will not lie forced to write the words I will not lie forced to write the words I will not lie about John Paul Miller 5,000 about John Paul Miller 5,000 about John Paul Miller 5,000 times and then this gets out and she is times and then this gets out and she is times and then this gets out and she is essentially bullied by everybody now she essentially bullied by everybody now she essentially bullied by everybody now she you know she is a [ __ ] she is this, she you know she is a [ __ ] she is this, she you know she is a [ __ ] she is this, she is that and her life is a living hell. is that and her life is a living hell. is that and her life is a living hell. She says, "The horrors of Cathedral Hall She says, "The horrors of Cathedral Hall She says, "The horrors of Cathedral Hall Academy were not just physical and Academy were not just physical and Academy were not just physical and sexual, they were psychological." sexual, they were psychological." sexual, they were psychological." Then this this will hit extra close to Then this this will hit extra close to Then this this will hit extra close to home. Uh, one example she gives is, home. Uh, one example she gives is, home. Uh, one example she gives is, "When plaintiff brought a Harry Potter "When plaintiff brought a Harry Potter "When plaintiff brought a Harry Potter book to school, RWM and JPM dragged her book to school, RWM and JPM dragged her book to school, RWM and JPM dragged her into the office, they bered her, called into the office, they bered her, called into the office, they bered her, called her a servant of Satan, and told her her a servant of Satan, and told her her a servant of Satan, and told her that if she continued down this path, that if she continued down this path, that if she continued down this path, she would be raped by demons." Then she would be raped by demons." Then she would be raped by demons." Then right in front of her, they set the book right in front of her, they set the book right in front of her, they set the book on fire. RWM, that's Wayne, then beat on fire. RWM, that's Wayne, then beat on fire. RWM, that's Wayne, then beat her with a Bible and poured water over her with a Bible and poured water over her with a Bible and poured water over her head. She was 16 years old. And her head. She was 16 years old. And her head. She was 16 years old. And again, these are allegations. And people again, these are allegations. And people again, these are allegations. And people wonder why I haven't seen Harry Potter.

wonder why I haven't seen Harry Potter. wonder why I haven't seen Harry Potter. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> So, he makes a counter claim to that >> So, he makes a counter claim to that >> So, he makes a counter claim to that >> to Jane Do number two >> to Jane Do number two >> to Jane Do number two >> and Jane Do number one. Um, he basically >> and Jane Do number one. Um, he basically >> and Jane Do number one. Um, he basically has a response and has filed a counter has a response and has filed a counter has a response and has filed a counter claim saying that these are lies. There claim saying that these are lies. There claim saying that these are lies. There were apparently social media videos. He were apparently social media videos. He were apparently social media videos. He wanted the judge to like have those be wanted the judge to like have those be wanted the judge to like have those be taken down, bar anyone from talking taken down, bar anyone from talking taken down, bar anyone from talking about it. As far as I can see, these are about it. As far as I can see, these are about it. As far as I can see, these are still pending. still pending. still pending. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now, one of the last things that I I >> Now, one of the last things that I I >> Now, one of the last things that I I want to get to I mentioned was like this want to get to I mentioned was like this want to get to I mentioned was like this idea of why did he take all of her idea of why did he take all of her idea of why did he take all of her stuff? And yes, we know where JP was, stuff? And yes, we know where JP was, stuff? And yes, we know where JP was, but is JP the only person we should be but is JP the only person we should be but is JP the only person we should be looking at? looking at? looking at? So, one of Micah's sisters filed an So, one of Micah's sisters filed an So, one of Micah's sisters filed an affidavit. And in here, um, she says, affidavit. And in here, um, she says, affidavit. And in here, um, she says, "Micah told me that there were people "Micah told me that there were people "Micah told me that there were people following her, keeping track of where following her, keeping track of where following her, keeping track of where she went. She thought that Mr. Miller she went. She thought that Mr. Miller she went. She thought that Mr. Miller had hired people to follow her. Mr. had hired people to follow her. Mr. had hired people to follow her. Mr. Miller later confirmed this during a Miller later confirmed this during a Miller later confirmed this during a sermon I watched." Now, they had kind of sermon I watched." Now, they had kind of sermon I watched." Now, they had kind of like briefly touched on this in the like briefly touched on this in the like briefly touched on this in the documentary.

documentary. documentary. >> Yeah. Cuz there's like a moment where >> Yeah. Cuz there's like a moment where >> Yeah. Cuz there's like a moment where they find a tracker on her car and they find a tracker on her car and they find a tracker on her car and they're like at the police and they see they're like at the police and they see they're like at the police and they see a car pull in and then like whip around a car pull in and then like whip around a car pull in and then like whip around and leave. and leave. and leave. >> Yeah. Which might have been him. But >> Yeah. Which might have been him. But >> Yeah. Which might have been him. But this idea that it was people. This this idea that it was people. This this idea that it was people. This doesn't say John Paul and that he was doesn't say John Paul and that he was doesn't say John Paul and that he was hiring people too hiring people too hiring people too >> to me says I don't sure I'm glad we know >> to me says I don't sure I'm glad we know >> to me says I don't sure I'm glad we know where his truck was, but like who are where his truck was, but like who are where his truck was, but like who are these other people that were involved? these other people that were involved? these other people that were involved? Who else was in his orbit? And did Who else was in his orbit? And did Who else was in his orbit? And did police thoroughly look at them, too? Did police thoroughly look at them, too? Did police thoroughly look at them, too? Did the FBI, if we're going to talk about the FBI, if we're going to talk about the FBI, if we're going to talk about cyberstalking, even if that's the only cyberstalking, even if that's the only cyberstalking, even if that's the only thing we're talking about, like who else thing we're talking about, like who else thing we're talking about, like who else touched that case? touched that case? touched that case? Now, Now, Now, when she had filed for divorce the first when she had filed for divorce the first when she had filed for divorce the first time, I I don't know. I don't know what time, I I don't know. I don't know what time, I I don't know. I don't know what his mindset was. He maybe he his his mindset was. He maybe he his his mindset was. He maybe he his narcissistic brain did really did want narcissistic brain did really did want narcissistic brain did really did want her back, but it also seems very her back, but it also seems very her back, but it also seems very calculated because he convinces her to calculated because he convinces her to calculated because he convinces her to not do it that first time. And then not do it that first time. And then not do it that first time. And then according to her sister's affidavit, she according to her sister's affidavit, she according to her sister's affidavit, she is told by Micah that he starts moving is told by Micah that he starts moving is told by Micah that he starts moving assets. So if she files for divorce and assets. So if she files for divorce and assets. So if she files for divorce and it stays like right now, she still has it stays like right now, she still has it stays like right now, she still has those.

those. those. >> She's going to get things >> She's going to get things >> She's going to get things >> while they're still married. He starts >> while they're still married. He starts >> while they're still married. He starts moving assets um in his name, such as moving assets um in his name, such as moving assets um in his name, such as the vehicle. He changed the deed to the vehicle. He changed the deed to the vehicle. He changed the deed to their house to the church transferring their house to the church transferring their house to the church transferring interest in and he also transferred interest in and he also transferred interest in and he also transferred interest in Crocodile Rocks to one of interest in Crocodile Rocks to one of interest in Crocodile Rocks to one of his sons which I think is like this his sons which I think is like this his sons which I think is like this restaurant or bar or something. So he's restaurant or bar or something. So he's restaurant or bar or something. So he's making moves. Now the other thing she says is that Now the other thing she says is that prior to her admission to Walk, which I prior to her admission to Walk, which I prior to her admission to Walk, which I think is the it was the mental health think is the it was the mental health think is the it was the mental health institution where she got institution where she got institution where she got institutionalized institutionalized institutionalized >> when she got committed. But prior to her >> when she got committed. But prior to her >> when she got committed. But prior to her admission, Micah was gathering and admission, Micah was gathering and admission, Micah was gathering and sorting the evidence she had to bring an sorting the evidence she had to bring an sorting the evidence she had to bring an attorney for filing for divorce. To attorney for filing for divorce. To attorney for filing for divorce. To support her claims against Mr. Miller support her claims against Mr. Miller support her claims against Mr. Miller and as to his abused character, his and as to his abused character, his and as to his abused character, his paramores and associates he paid off or paramores and associates he paid off or paramores and associates he paid off or blackmailed while at while at the blackmailed while at while at the blackmailed while at while at the facility. Those documents, emails, facility. Those documents, emails, facility. Those documents, emails, files, etc. were removed from her phone, files, etc. were removed from her phone, files, etc. were removed from her phone, personal, laptop, vehicle, and purse and personal, laptop, vehicle, and purse and personal, laptop, vehicle, and purse and never recovered. Further, Micah was never recovered. Further, Micah was never recovered. Further, Micah was unable to access her iCloud account, unable to access her iCloud account, unable to access her iCloud account, email, or Facebook profile. Mr. Miller email, or Facebook profile. Mr. Miller email, or Facebook profile. Mr. Miller continued using at least one of Micah's continued using at least one of Micah's continued using at least one of Micah's accounts, causing any recipient to accounts, causing any recipient to accounts, causing any recipient to believe that it was Micah's believe that it was Micah's believe that it was Micah's communications.

communications. communications. So, and that's like in the documentary So, and that's like in the documentary So, and that's like in the documentary to reference like where we are in time. to reference like where we are in time. to reference like where we are in time. That's when she's calling she calls like That's when she's calling she calls like That's when she's calling she calls like 911 and is like, "Hey, my strange or 911 and is like, "Hey, my strange or 911 and is like, "Hey, my strange or like we're separated. My husband is t I like we're separated. My husband is t I like we're separated. My husband is t I was in the hospital. He's taken all of was in the hospital. He's taken all of was in the hospital. He's taken all of my stuff. I need like I can I report the my stuff. I need like I can I report the my stuff. I need like I can I report the stuff stolen." stuff stolen." stuff stolen." >> Right? And so to me, that was just like, >> Right? And so to me, that was just like, >> Right? And so to me, that was just like, "Oh, he took your stuff." It sounds like "Oh, he took your stuff." It sounds like "Oh, he took your stuff." It sounds like she was building a case she was building a case she was building a case >> for her divorce >> for her divorce >> for her divorce >> against him. >> against him. >> against him. >> But may may again I don't know what this >> But may may again I don't know what this >> But may may again I don't know what this paying off and blackmail like there she paying off and blackmail like there she paying off and blackmail like there she was collecting evidence that then was collecting evidence that then was collecting evidence that then disappears because she gets disappears because she gets disappears because she gets institutionalized. institutionalized. institutionalized. [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] The other thing her sister says is that The other thing her sister says is that The other thing her sister says is that Micah was intending to participate in Micah was intending to participate in Micah was intending to participate in additional missions cuz she did missions additional missions cuz she did missions additional missions cuz she did missions trips. She was even planning to live trips. She was even planning to live trips. She was even planning to live part-time in Kenya. Micah recently part-time in Kenya. Micah recently part-time in Kenya. Micah recently shipped some of her personal items to shipped some of her personal items to shipped some of her personal items to Kenya in preparation for her stay there. Kenya in preparation for her stay there. Kenya in preparation for her stay there. I understand why the family is so I understand why the family is so I understand why the family is so takenback by this. takenback by this. takenback by this. >> This is the document where she says that >> This is the document where she says that >> This is the document where she says that she was fearful that she wouldn't make she was fearful that she wouldn't make she was fearful that she wouldn't make it to the divorce and she according to it to the divorce and she according to it to the divorce and she according to her sister said if I end up with a her sister said if I end up with a her sister said if I end up with a bullet in my head it was not by me it bullet in my head it was not by me it bullet in my head it was not by me it was JP. She's making plans. She says was JP. She's making plans. She says was JP. She's making plans. She says this, she's building this evidence this, she's building this evidence this, she's building this evidence against him. That evidence goes missing.

against him. That evidence goes missing. against him. That evidence goes missing. Once she dies, he's trying to collect Once she dies, he's trying to collect Once she dies, he's trying to collect anything else that might remain. anything else that might remain. anything else that might remain. It's I get I get the questions. It's I get I get the questions. It's I get I get the questions. >> I get the questions. >> I get the questions. >> I get the questions. >> I've had questions since I heard about >> I've had questions since I heard about >> I've had questions since I heard about this case, but I feel like the more that this case, but I feel like the more that this case, but I feel like the more that I've learned about it, the list of I've learned about it, the list of I've learned about it, the list of questions has only grown. questions has only grown. questions has only grown. So what now? I don't know what now? I don't know his hearing for cyberstalking, making his hearing for cyberstalking, making his hearing for cyberstalking, making false statements to an investigator that false statements to an investigator that false statements to an investigator that is set, I think, right now for October. is set, I think, right now for October. is set, I think, right now for October. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And I think I think a lot of people are >> And I think I think a lot of people are >> And I think I think a lot of people are going to be watching. I know we talked going to be watching. I know we talked going to be watching. I know we talked about a ton of like very tough topics. about a ton of like very tough topics. about a ton of like very tough topics. So, for anyone who is listening or So, for anyone who is listening or So, for anyone who is listening or watching, we're going to put a bunch of watching, we're going to put a bunch of watching, we're going to put a bunch of resources in the show notes, including resources in the show notes, including resources in the show notes, including something on religious trauma, something on religious trauma, something on religious trauma, >> which maybe I should take advantage >> which maybe I should take advantage >> which maybe I should take advantage [laughter] of. [laughter] of. [laughter] of. >> And there's also going to be some >> And there's also going to be some >> And there's also going to be some information about Micah's law. One of information about Micah's law. One of information about Micah's law. One of the things that her family is trying to the things that her family is trying to the things that her family is trying to change is how the state of South change is how the state of South change is how the state of South Carolina views allegations of abuse or Carolina views allegations of abuse or Carolina views allegations of abuse or harassment like within a married couple harassment like within a married couple harassment like within a married couple because there was a lot of stuff that because there was a lot of stuff that because there was a lot of stuff that they felt like police couldn't respond they felt like police couldn't respond they felt like police couldn't respond to because of the fact that JP and Micah to because of the fact that JP and Micah to because of the fact that JP and Micah were married. So, if you want more were married. So, if you want more were married. So, if you want more information on that, you can check out information on that, you can check out information on that, you can check out that in the show notes as well and see that in the show notes as well and see that in the show notes as well and see how you can support. Crime Junkie is an how you can support. Crime Junkie is an how you can support. Crime Junkie is an audiochuck production.

audiochuck production. audiochuck production. I think Chuck would approve.