What Did Investigators Miss in Alyssa Romine-Olson’s Case?

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Brett. And welcome Flowers. And I'm Brett. And welcome Flowers. And I'm Brett. And welcome back. Last episode, I told you about the back. Last episode, I told you about the back. Last episode, I told you about the mysterious death of 30-year-old Alyssa mysterious death of 30-year-old Alyssa mysterious death of 30-year-old Alyssa Romanine Olsen. Her case has all the Romanine Olsen. Her case has all the Romanine Olsen. Her case has all the hallmarks that to a crime junkie scream hallmarks that to a crime junkie scream hallmarks that to a crime junkie scream foul play. She was found outdoors in a foul play. She was found outdoors in a foul play. She was found outdoors in a Gilbert, Arizona nature preserve. She Gilbert, Arizona nature preserve. She Gilbert, Arizona nature preserve. She was naked, face down in shallow water. was naked, face down in shallow water. was naked, face down in shallow water. Everything she came to the park with, Everything she came to the park with, Everything she came to the park with, her clothing, journal, cell phone, keys, her clothing, journal, cell phone, keys, her clothing, journal, cell phone, keys, it was all missing. And what police did it was all missing. And what police did it was all missing. And what police did find in the park were some footprints, find in the park were some footprints, find in the park were some footprints, shoe prints, and a latex glove. But for shoe prints, and a latex glove. But for shoe prints, and a latex glove. But for some reason, this got spun to and some reason, this got spun to and some reason, this got spun to and through the media like a possible through the media like a possible through the media like a possible suicide. Now, they couldn't outright say suicide. Now, they couldn't outright say suicide. Now, they couldn't outright say that that it was a suicide because the that that it was a suicide because the that that it was a suicide because the ME ruled manner and cause of death as ME ruled manner and cause of death as ME ruled manner and cause of death as undetermined. But the insinuation was undetermined. But the insinuation was undetermined. But the insinuation was there, backed by some softly worded there, backed by some softly worded there, backed by some softly worded statements from the police who told the statements from the police who told the statements from the police who told the press that there was no threat to the press that there was no threat to the press that there was no threat to the public. All of this was shocking to public. All of this was shocking to public. All of this was shocking to Alyssa's family because up to that Alyssa's family because up to that Alyssa's family because up to that point, they were very much under the point, they were very much under the point, they were very much under the impression that police were considering impression that police were considering impression that police were considering this foul play. They had even been this foul play. They had even been this foul play. They had even been asking them for a list of people that asking them for a list of people that asking them for a list of people that they thought police should look into.

they thought police should look into. they thought police should look into. But that's not the direction the But that's not the direction the But that's not the direction the investigation took. Alyssa's sister investigation took. Alyssa's sister investigation took. Alyssa's sister Michelle told us it felt like Michelle told us it felt like Michelle told us it felt like investigators took one look at the investigators took one look at the investigators took one look at the lifestyle Alyssa and her husband Braden lifestyle Alyssa and her husband Braden lifestyle Alyssa and her husband Braden Olsen lived, heard about their beliefs, Olsen lived, heard about their beliefs, Olsen lived, heard about their beliefs, and instantly wrote them off as and instantly wrote them off as and instantly wrote them off as religious lunatics. And to be fair, religious lunatics. And to be fair, religious lunatics. And to be fair, Braden did himself no favors each of the Braden did himself no favors each of the Braden did himself no favors each of the three times he talked to police. But three times he talked to police. But three times he talked to police. But from that point on, Michelle believed from that point on, Michelle believed from that point on, Michelle believed the investigation was driven by a simple the investigation was driven by a simple the investigation was driven by a simple assumption. Either Alyssa did this to assumption. Either Alyssa did this to assumption. Either Alyssa did this to herself or her husband Braden did it to herself or her husband Braden did it to herself or her husband Braden did it to her. And if they found something that her. And if they found something that her. And if they found something that didn't fit neatly into that box, they didn't fit neatly into that box, they didn't fit neatly into that box, they seemed to discount it until the case seemed to discount it until the case seemed to discount it until the case eventually just ended up cold. And eventually just ended up cold. And eventually just ended up cold. And listen, if you're hung up on Braden, listen, if you're hung up on Braden, listen, if you're hung up on Braden, hearing about the other very viable hearing about the other very viable hearing about the other very viable leads in this case might change your leads in this case might change your leads in this case might change your mind or at the very least present some mind or at the very least present some mind or at the very least present some pretty significant reasonable doubt. So, pretty significant reasonable doubt. So, pretty significant reasonable doubt. So, this is the rest of Alyssa Roman Olsen's this is the rest of Alyssa Roman Olsen's this is the rest of Alyssa Roman Olsen's story.

I want to break up this episode by I want to break up this episode by theory. The media suggests Alyssa may theory. The media suggests Alyssa may theory. The media suggests Alyssa may have died by suicide because she was have died by suicide because she was have died by suicide because she was depressed or had health issues, but her depressed or had health issues, but her depressed or had health issues, but her family firmly disputes that. family firmly disputes that. family firmly disputes that. >> Also, nothing about the scene is giving >> Also, nothing about the scene is giving >> Also, nothing about the scene is giving suicide. No, I don't think she hid her suicide. No, I don't think she hid her suicide. No, I don't think she hid her clothes and her journal and keys and clothes and her journal and keys and clothes and her journal and keys and phone and walked into a nature preserve phone and walked into a nature preserve phone and walked into a nature preserve and died by some means that an ME and died by some means that an ME and died by some means that an ME couldn't even determine. Makes no sense. couldn't even determine. Makes no sense. couldn't even determine. Makes no sense. Plus, the family says that police from Plus, the family says that police from Plus, the family says that police from the very jump were using terms with them the very jump were using terms with them the very jump were using terms with them at least, like foul play, crime scene. at least, like foul play, crime scene. at least, like foul play, crime scene. >> But they seemed to focus heavily on >> But they seemed to focus heavily on >> But they seemed to focus heavily on Alyssa's husband, who it turned out had Alyssa's husband, who it turned out had Alyssa's husband, who it turned out had a rock solid alibi. He was out of state. a rock solid alibi. He was out of state. a rock solid alibi. He was out of state. So, when that didn't pan out, it seems So, when that didn't pan out, it seems So, when that didn't pan out, it seems like the investigation like the investigation like the investigation slowly tapered off, slowly tapered off, slowly tapered off, >> which is easy for that to happen when >> which is easy for that to happen when >> which is easy for that to happen when you don't have the media banging down you don't have the media banging down you don't have the media banging down your door asking like when you're going your door asking like when you're going your door asking like when you're going to solve this case when it's like just a to solve this case when it's like just a to solve this case when it's like just a just a suicide. just a suicide. just a suicide. >> It makes the positioning in the public >> It makes the positioning in the public >> It makes the positioning in the public look very strategic, doesn't it? So, look very strategic, doesn't it? So, look very strategic, doesn't it? So, let's walk through the other theories let's walk through the other theories let's walk through the other theories that I think are worth exploring. The that I think are worth exploring. The that I think are worth exploring. The first is actually one that, as far as I first is actually one that, as far as I first is actually one that, as far as I can tell, police never even looked into, can tell, police never even looked into, can tell, police never even looked into, the last reformation theory. Now, this the last reformation theory. Now, this the last reformation theory. Now, this got our attention because of something got our attention because of something got our attention because of something Alyssa's sister, Chelsea, told police Alyssa's sister, Chelsea, told police Alyssa's sister, Chelsea, told police early on. It's in one of their reports.

early on. It's in one of their reports. early on. It's in one of their reports. She asked them if Alyssa's death could She asked them if Alyssa's death could She asked them if Alyssa's death could have been caused by one of the members have been caused by one of the members have been caused by one of the members of her church, specifically someone of her church, specifically someone of her church, specifically someone offering to baptize Alyssa in the water. offering to baptize Alyssa in the water. offering to baptize Alyssa in the water. And that one line made me think back to And that one line made me think back to And that one line made me think back to something else that I read in the file. something else that I read in the file. something else that I read in the file. So early on when police collected the So early on when police collected the So early on when police collected the computer that Alyssa used, she had a computer that Alyssa used, she had a computer that Alyssa used, she had a number of searches on June 6, so this is number of searches on June 6, so this is number of searches on June 6, so this is shortly before her death related to a shortly before her death related to a shortly before her death related to a religious movement called the last religious movement called the last religious movement called the last reformation or TLR. So last episode when reformation or TLR. So last episode when reformation or TLR. So last episode when we were talking about Braden and his we were talking about Braden and his we were talking about Braden and his like, you know, not really having a like, you know, not really having a like, you know, not really having a motive, I mentioned that he and Alyssa motive, I mentioned that he and Alyssa motive, I mentioned that he and Alyssa were actually planning a trip together were actually planning a trip together were actually planning a trip together that would have been like a couple of that would have been like a couple of that would have been like a couple of weeks after she died. They had talked weeks after she died. They had talked weeks after she died. They had talked about it on their long phone call the about it on their long phone call the about it on their long phone call the night before Alyssa died. Well, that night before Alyssa died. Well, that night before Alyssa died. Well, that trip was to learn more about TLR. And trip was to learn more about TLR. And trip was to learn more about TLR. And when police collected the tablet that when police collected the tablet that when police collected the tablet that Braden had been using, they actually Braden had been using, they actually Braden had been using, they actually found three deleted PDF files seemingly found three deleted PDF files seemingly found three deleted PDF files seemingly related to TLR, which by the way not related to TLR, which by the way not related to TLR, which by the way not only places a strong emphasis on only places a strong emphasis on only places a strong emphasis on baptism, but reportedly requires new baptism, but reportedly requires new baptism, but reportedly requires new members to be rebaptized and engage in members to be rebaptized and engage in members to be rebaptized and engage in like on the spot baptisms. And the more like on the spot baptisms. And the more like on the spot baptisms. And the more we venture down this rabbit hole, the we venture down this rabbit hole, the we venture down this rabbit hole, the more interesting connections we found.

more interesting connections we found. more interesting connections we found. For context, the last reformation is a For context, the last reformation is a For context, the last reformation is a global Christian revival movement that global Christian revival movement that global Christian revival movement that was launched in Denmark in 2011 by a man was launched in Denmark in 2011 by a man was launched in Denmark in 2011 by a man named Torbin Sundergard. It teaches that named Torbin Sundergard. It teaches that named Torbin Sundergard. It teaches that modern Christianity has become too modern Christianity has become too modern Christianity has become too polished, too institutional, too polished, too institutional, too polished, too institutional, too dependent on buildings and pastors and dependent on buildings and pastors and dependent on buildings and pastors and routines. So instead, followers are routines. So instead, followers are routines. So instead, followers are encouraged to return to what they encouraged to return to what they encouraged to return to what they believe is the raw supernatural faith of believe is the raw supernatural faith of believe is the raw supernatural faith of the early disciples in the New the early disciples in the New the early disciples in the New Testament. And that means that things Testament. And that means that things Testament. And that means that things can get a little intense andor hit a can get a little intense andor hit a can get a little intense andor hit a little too close to home for anyone who little too close to home for anyone who little too close to home for anyone who grew up like we did and like didn't get grew up like we did and like didn't get grew up like we did and like didn't get out or like did get out as we did. We're out or like did get out as we did. We're out or like did get out as we did. We're talking public healings, speaking in talking public healings, speaking in talking public healings, speaking in tongues, deliverance sessions, what many tongues, deliverance sessions, what many tongues, deliverance sessions, what many people would call exorcisms, and public people would call exorcisms, and public people would call exorcisms, and public baptisms in lakes or kitty pools. Now, baptisms in lakes or kitty pools. Now, baptisms in lakes or kitty pools. Now, followers are taught to cast out demons, followers are taught to cast out demons, followers are taught to cast out demons, heal the sick, and evangelize to heal the sick, and evangelize to heal the sick, and evangelize to strangers wherever, whenever, even if strangers wherever, whenever, even if strangers wherever, whenever, even if that happens to be a parking lot. Now, that happens to be a parking lot. Now, that happens to be a parking lot. Now, the movement exploded online through the movement exploded online through the movement exploded online through YouTube videos showing dramatic healings YouTube videos showing dramatic healings YouTube videos showing dramatic healings and emotional conversion stories, but it and emotional conversion stories, but it and emotional conversion stories, but it also raised some major red flags. So, also raised some major red flags. So, also raised some major red flags. So, the movement has been connected to the movement has been connected to the movement has been connected to claims of curing autism by casting out claims of curing autism by casting out claims of curing autism by casting out demons from children as well as freeing demons from children as well as freeing demons from children as well as freeing people from cancer through prayer. And people from cancer through prayer. And people from cancer through prayer. And in 2016, six different Danish government in 2016, six different Danish government in 2016, six different Danish government agencies investigated the movement agencies investigated the movement agencies investigated the movement following worrying public claims about following worrying public claims about following worrying public claims about Torbin's practices and activities. Now, Torbin's practices and activities. Now, Torbin's practices and activities. Now, those specific government inquiries

those specific government inquiries those specific government inquiries found no actionable wrongdoings, but found no actionable wrongdoings, but found no actionable wrongdoings, but that didn't stop public outcry. So, how that didn't stop public outcry. So, how that didn't stop public outcry. So, how does Alyssa factor into all of this? does Alyssa factor into all of this? does Alyssa factor into all of this? Well, we know that Alyssa held religious Well, we know that Alyssa held religious Well, we know that Alyssa held religious beliefs that friends and family beliefs that friends and family beliefs that friends and family described as extreme or intense. But described as extreme or intense. But described as extreme or intense. But admittedly, the Roines didn't know much admittedly, the Roines didn't know much admittedly, the Roines didn't know much about Alyssa's faith toward the end of about Alyssa's faith toward the end of about Alyssa's faith toward the end of her life because it sort of became a her life because it sort of became a her life because it sort of became a topic of conflict. Alyssa would topic of conflict. Alyssa would topic of conflict. Alyssa would encourage her family to become more encourage her family to become more encourage her family to become more faithful and she would get animated if faithful and she would get animated if faithful and she would get animated if anyone tried to push back. Chelsea said anyone tried to push back. Chelsea said anyone tried to push back. Chelsea said that much like Braden, Alyssa would that much like Braden, Alyssa would that much like Braden, Alyssa would compare those who tried to slow her compare those who tried to slow her compare those who tried to slow her religious progression to the devil and religious progression to the devil and religious progression to the devil and question why they were keeping her from question why they were keeping her from question why they were keeping her from learning about God. discussions were learning about God. discussions were learning about God. discussions were likely to end in an argument. So, likely to end in an argument. So, likely to end in an argument. So, Chelsea knew very little about TLR, but Chelsea knew very little about TLR, but Chelsea knew very little about TLR, but she said that her family had their she said that her family had their she said that her family had their suspicions about it possibly being a suspicions about it possibly being a suspicions about it possibly being a cult. Now, when it comes to this theory, cult. Now, when it comes to this theory, cult. Now, when it comes to this theory, I think there are a few possibilities to I think there are a few possibilities to I think there are a few possibilities to tease out. The first one is what Chelsea tease out. The first one is what Chelsea tease out. The first one is what Chelsea suggested in her conversation with suggested in her conversation with suggested in her conversation with police, a sort of baptism gone wrong.

police, a sort of baptism gone wrong. police, a sort of baptism gone wrong. Now, we did some digging here and found Now, we did some digging here and found Now, we did some digging here and found a podcast called The Cult Vault that a podcast called The Cult Vault that a podcast called The Cult Vault that explored the last reformation movement. explored the last reformation movement. explored the last reformation movement. In one of their episodes, the host In one of their episodes, the host In one of their episodes, the host interviews a man who explored the interviews a man who explored the interviews a man who explored the movement himself after one of his family movement himself after one of his family movement himself after one of his family members joined. And some things that he members joined. And some things that he members joined. And some things that he said really stuck out to me. So, the man said really stuck out to me. So, the man said really stuck out to me. So, the man described a TLR meeting that he went to described a TLR meeting that he went to described a TLR meeting that he went to where a member told him that they where a member told him that they where a member told him that they believe every person in their faith is a believe every person in their faith is a believe every person in their faith is a disciple. So every person in their faith disciple. So every person in their faith disciple. So every person in their faith can make water holy, can do baptism, can can make water holy, can do baptism, can can make water holy, can do baptism, can cast out demons. According to him, one cast out demons. According to him, one cast out demons. According to him, one of the first things that they have new of the first things that they have new of the first things that they have new members do is get baptized again. And members do is get baptized again. And members do is get baptized again. And interestingly, one of the group's interestingly, one of the group's interestingly, one of the group's practices was to go to Walmart and to practices was to go to Walmart and to practices was to go to Walmart and to try and convert people in the parking try and convert people in the parking try and convert people in the parking lot. Like according to this man, they lot. Like according to this man, they lot. Like according to this man, they would bring a pickup truck with a raised would bring a pickup truck with a raised would bring a pickup truck with a raised bed in the back that they would fill bed in the back that they would fill bed in the back that they would fill with water and do baptisms in the with water and do baptisms in the with water and do baptisms in the parking lot. Now, remember, we don't parking lot. Now, remember, we don't parking lot. Now, remember, we don't have any footage of Alyssa or her car have any footage of Alyssa or her car have any footage of Alyssa or her car parked in the parking lot of the public parked in the parking lot of the public parked in the parking lot of the public library where it was found because it library where it was found because it library where it was found because it was out of view.

was out of view. was out of view. >> Could someone from the movement have >> Could someone from the movement have >> Could someone from the movement have approached her? And before you question approached her? And before you question approached her? And before you question like, oh, were there even like TLR like, oh, were there even like TLR like, oh, were there even like TLR members living in Arizona? I can tell members living in Arizona? I can tell members living in Arizona? I can tell you right now that the answer is yes. you right now that the answer is yes. you right now that the answer is yes. And I know that because on the And I know that because on the And I know that because on the movement's website, there is this movement's website, there is this movement's website, there is this interactive map where members can share interactive map where members can share interactive map where members can share their locations. And there are multiple their locations. And there are multiple their locations. And there are multiple plot points in Arizona. Are you thinking plot points in Arizona. Are you thinking plot points in Arizona. Are you thinking that there might have been like a a that there might have been like a a that there might have been like a a planned meetup or is this something more planned meetup or is this something more planned meetup or is this something more like happen stance? like happen stance? like happen stance? >> I can't say anything for sure, but one >> I can't say anything for sure, but one >> I can't say anything for sure, but one thing noted in the police file is that thing noted in the police file is that thing noted in the police file is that Alyssa's text message log showed Alyssa's text message log showed Alyssa's text message log showed exchanges with an unidentified number exchanges with an unidentified number exchanges with an unidentified number the day and days before she went missing the day and days before she went missing the day and days before she went missing and died. and died. and died. >> So, this is someone other than Braden. >> So, this is someone other than Braden. >> So, this is someone other than Braden. >> Well, I mean, the number itself is >> Well, I mean, the number itself is >> Well, I mean, the number itself is redacted in the document. So, like I redacted in the document. So, like I redacted in the document. So, like I couldn't look it up, but I know that couldn't look it up, but I know that couldn't look it up, but I know that it's not Brighton's because officers it's not Brighton's because officers it's not Brighton's because officers note that when they tried to call this note that when they tried to call this note that when they tried to call this number, there was no answer nor an number, there was no answer nor an number, there was no answer nor an option to leave a voicemail. And we know option to leave a voicemail. And we know option to leave a voicemail. And we know that Braden did receive a voicemail that Braden did receive a voicemail that Braden did receive a voicemail message on the device that he was message on the device that he was message on the device that he was borrowing from the Phillips. borrowing from the Phillips. borrowing from the Phillips. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Officers also text the number asking for >> Officers also text the number asking for >> Officers also text the number asking for a call back, but they never got any kind a call back, but they never got any kind a call back, but they never got any kind of response. And speaking of the of response. And speaking of the of response. And speaking of the Phillips, their daughter Samantha Phillips, their daughter Samantha Phillips, their daughter Samantha expressed some concerns to police about expressed some concerns to police about expressed some concerns to police about the last reformation movement, saying the last reformation movement, saying the last reformation movement, saying that it was like very weird and she that it was like very weird and she that it was like very weird and she could see them doing something like could see them doing something like could see them doing something like that, like just taking somebody. Now, as that, like just taking somebody. Now, as that, like just taking somebody. Now, as far as I can tell though, there was no far as I can tell though, there was no far as I can tell though, there was no follow-up done with this phone number follow-up done with this phone number follow-up done with this phone number that like she was in communication with, that like she was in communication with, that like she was in communication with, which like by the way, it would take all which like by the way, it would take all which like by the way, it would take all like 20 seconds for me right now to like 20 seconds for me right now to like 20 seconds for me right now to track someone to that number like with track someone to that number like with track someone to that number like with what I have available to me. I'm not what I have available to me. I'm not what I have available to me. I'm not even the police, but I can't cuz it's

even the police, but I can't cuz it's even the police, but I can't cuz it's redacted. redacted. redacted. >> Right now, there is another possibility, >> Right now, there is another possibility, >> Right now, there is another possibility, which is that Alyssa was not the one which is that Alyssa was not the one which is that Alyssa was not the one being baptized, but maybe the one being baptized, but maybe the one being baptized, but maybe the one offering baptism. Like, she could have offering baptism. Like, she could have offering baptism. Like, she could have been encouraged by a movement, the been encouraged by a movement, the been encouraged by a movement, the movement, whatever, to approach someone movement, whatever, to approach someone movement, whatever, to approach someone to minister to them or to baptize them. to minister to them or to baptize them. to minister to them or to baptize them. Or in Chelsea's word, she might have Or in Chelsea's word, she might have Or in Chelsea's word, she might have quote bothered the wrong person about quote bothered the wrong person about quote bothered the wrong person about God. According to the police file, both God. According to the police file, both God. According to the police file, both Ed and Barbara, her parents, said that Ed and Barbara, her parents, said that Ed and Barbara, her parents, said that Alyssa was very friendly and she liked Alyssa was very friendly and she liked Alyssa was very friendly and she liked to talk to strangers, particularly to to talk to strangers, particularly to to talk to strangers, particularly to minister to them, which her dad Ed said minister to them, which her dad Ed said minister to them, which her dad Ed said was a scary habit. And actually, one of was a scary habit. And actually, one of was a scary habit. And actually, one of the friends of Alyssa's that we spoke to the friends of Alyssa's that we spoke to the friends of Alyssa's that we spoke to told us that his top theory is that told us that his top theory is that told us that his top theory is that Alyssa was evangelizing to someone in Alyssa was evangelizing to someone in Alyssa was evangelizing to someone in the park who then pushed her into the the park who then pushed her into the the park who then pushed her into the water causing her death. Now, who this water causing her death. Now, who this water causing her death. Now, who this person might have been, nobody could person might have been, nobody could person might have been, nobody could say. And that's like where that theory say. And that's like where that theory say. And that's like where that theory just like falls off. Okay, but like is just like falls off. Okay, but like is just like falls off. Okay, but like is she naked when they push her in? Like she naked when they push her in? Like she naked when they push her in? Like otherwise that would make no sense. otherwise that would make no sense. otherwise that would make no sense. >> It it also makes no sense to me because >> It it also makes no sense to me because >> It it also makes no sense to me because like we there's no water in her lungs. like we there's no water in her lungs. like we there's no water in her lungs. She didn't drown either. So like I I She didn't drown either. So like I I She didn't drown either. So like I I agree that that theory doesn't agree that that theory doesn't agree that that theory doesn't necessarily like or that piece of the necessarily like or that piece of the necessarily like or that piece of the theory doesn't make sense to me. Now, theory doesn't make sense to me. Now, theory doesn't make sense to me. Now, maybe if the police had alerted the maybe if the police had alerted the maybe if the police had alerted the public about the possibility of this public about the possibility of this public about the possibility of this being a homicide back in 2016, if they being a homicide back in 2016, if they being a homicide back in 2016, if they had tried harder to track down that had tried harder to track down that had tried harder to track down that unidentified number or done a unidentified number or done a unidentified number or done a neighborhood canvas, they might have neighborhood canvas, they might have neighborhood canvas, they might have gotten some leads. But that didn't gotten some leads. But that didn't gotten some leads. But that didn't happen. And now we can't go back in happen. And now we can't go back in happen. And now we can't go back in time. So, with that, on to our next time. So, with that, on to our next time. So, with that, on to our next theory. The man in the green 4ERunner.

theory. The man in the green 4ERunner. theory. The man in the green 4ERunner. It was Chelsea and her sister Tammy who It was Chelsea and her sister Tammy who It was Chelsea and her sister Tammy who first encountered this man on September first encountered this man on September first encountered this man on September 30th, 2016. 30th, 2016. 30th, 2016. Chelsea told us that they were at the Chelsea told us that they were at the Chelsea told us that they were at the Riperian dropping off flowers for Alyssa Riperian dropping off flowers for Alyssa Riperian dropping off flowers for Alyssa when a strange man just like emerged when a strange man just like emerged when a strange man just like emerged from the bushes near where they were from the bushes near where they were from the bushes near where they were standing. And they're just like they're standing. And they're just like they're standing. And they're just like they're sharing memories of Alyssa. But it sharing memories of Alyssa. But it sharing memories of Alyssa. But it seemed like this guy was like listening seemed like this guy was like listening seemed like this guy was like listening to them. And according to Chelsea, he to them. And according to Chelsea, he to them. And according to Chelsea, he was acting very weird and sort of like was acting very weird and sort of like was acting very weird and sort of like scoping the place out. So the two scoping the place out. So the two scoping the place out. So the two decided to just like keep an eye on this decided to just like keep an eye on this decided to just like keep an eye on this guy, except it sort of seemed like he guy, except it sort of seemed like he guy, except it sort of seemed like he was watching them back, which like was watching them back, which like was watching them back, which like creeped them out enough that they were creeped them out enough that they were creeped them out enough that they were like, "We just need to get out of here." like, "We just need to get out of here." like, "We just need to get out of here." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But that's not where the story ends. So >> But that's not where the story ends. So >> But that's not where the story ends. So once Chelsea and Tammy got to their once Chelsea and Tammy got to their once Chelsea and Tammy got to their parents' house, they were outside in the parents' house, they were outside in the parents' house, they were outside in the front like discussing whether they front like discussing whether they front like discussing whether they should like tell their mom or maybe even should like tell their mom or maybe even should like tell their mom or maybe even tell the cops about this. But before tell the cops about this. But before tell the cops about this. But before they could do anything, something they they could do anything, something they they could do anything, something they saw on the road made their heart stop. saw on the road made their heart stop. saw on the road made their heart stop. It was this like forest green Toyota It was this like forest green Toyota It was this like forest green Toyota 4Erunner like slow rolling down their 4Erunner like slow rolling down their 4Erunner like slow rolling down their street. And when it passed their house, street. And when it passed their house, street. And when it passed their house, the vehicle's window rolled down. And the vehicle's window rolled down. And the vehicle's window rolled down. And Chelsea could see clear as day that the Chelsea could see clear as day that the Chelsea could see clear as day that the driver was the same man from the driver was the same man from the driver was the same man from the riparian, like as though he followed riparian, like as though he followed riparian, like as though he followed them the five miles home.

them the five miles home. them the five miles home. >> What? And it's not like this is just >> What? And it's not like this is just >> What? And it's not like this is just like a straight shot on like some main like a straight shot on like some main like a straight shot on like some main street or something like this isn't a street or something like this isn't a street or something like this isn't a coincidence. The fastest route involves coincidence. The fastest route involves coincidence. The fastest route involves at least six turns to get to their at least six turns to get to their at least six turns to get to their parents' place. Now, Chelsea and Tammy parents' place. Now, Chelsea and Tammy parents' place. Now, Chelsea and Tammy did bring this information to police. did bring this information to police. did bring this information to police. Per the file, 4 days after the Per the file, 4 days after the Per the file, 4 days after the encounter, they went down to the station encounter, they went down to the station encounter, they went down to the station and relayed this whole story. Police and relayed this whole story. Police and relayed this whole story. Police asked Chelsea to rate her certainty on a asked Chelsea to rate her certainty on a asked Chelsea to rate her certainty on a scale from 1 to 10. That both the man at scale from 1 to 10. That both the man at scale from 1 to 10. That both the man at the Riparian and the man who drove by the Riparian and the man who drove by the Riparian and the man who drove by their house were the same person. their house were the same person. their house were the same person. >> At the time, Chelsea said seven. But she >> At the time, Chelsea said seven. But she >> At the time, Chelsea said seven. But she told us that she was 100% sure of it. told us that she was 100% sure of it. told us that she was 100% sure of it. >> So sure, in fact, that her first thought >> So sure, in fact, that her first thought >> So sure, in fact, that her first thought at the time was actually that that guy at the time was actually that that guy at the time was actually that that guy must have been like an undercover must have been like an undercover must have been like an undercover detective or something who was like detective or something who was like detective or something who was like monitoring the area or them or whatever. monitoring the area or them or whatever. monitoring the area or them or whatever. >> Did she ask police about that? Oh yeah, >> Did she ask police about that? Oh yeah, >> Did she ask police about that? Oh yeah, and definitely not the case here. They and definitely not the case here. They and definitely not the case here. They confirm that they had nobody following confirm that they had nobody following confirm that they had nobody following them. So the detectives ask her to them. So the detectives ask her to them. So the detectives ask her to describe this guy, right? And that's describe this guy, right? And that's describe this guy, right? And that's when she describes this Asian man in his when she describes this Asian man in his when she describes this Asian man in his mid30s to mid-40s with thick medium mid30s to mid-40s with thick medium mid30s to mid-40s with thick medium length hair that she thought looked like length hair that she thought looked like length hair that she thought looked like quote weird, like it was maybe even a quote weird, like it was maybe even a quote weird, like it was maybe even a wig. And she says that he stood about wig. And she says that he stood about wig. And she says that he stood about 5'9, had a muscular build, but not like 5'9, had a muscular build, but not like 5'9, had a muscular build, but not like athletic, and he wore thin small athletic, and he wore thin small athletic, and he wore thin small glasses, a white plain t-shirt, and glasses, a white plain t-shirt, and glasses, a white plain t-shirt, and khaki pants. And so police take this khaki pants. And so police take this khaki pants. And so police take this down, but they don't really do anything down, but they don't really do anything down, but they don't really do anything with it. It just kind of gets like filed with it. It just kind of gets like filed with it. It just kind of gets like filed away. But they didn't see what I saw. So

away. But they didn't see what I saw. So away. But they didn't see what I saw. So when I read that description, I when I read that description, I when I read that description, I genuinely thought I was having deja vu. genuinely thought I was having deja vu. genuinely thought I was having deja vu. Like I swore I had seen those exact Like I swore I had seen those exact Like I swore I had seen those exact words in the file before. And sure words in the file before. And sure words in the file before. And sure enough, I had. Hi, crime junkies. Brit here. I know to Hi, crime junkies. Brit here. I know to many of you guys I might just be a voice many of you guys I might just be a voice many of you guys I might just be a voice in your headphones or a face that lives in your headphones or a face that lives in your headphones or a face that lives inside your screens. But believe it or inside your screens. But believe it or inside your screens. But believe it or not, when this episode ends, I continue not, when this episode ends, I continue not, when this episode ends, I continue to exist. I know. Wait, what? And while to exist. I know. Wait, what? And while to exist. I know. Wait, what? And while I'm doing that whole existing thing, I I'm doing that whole existing thing, I I'm doing that whole existing thing, I am so much more than just your favorite am so much more than just your favorite am so much more than just your favorite podcasts co-host. I invest time in my podcasts co-host. I invest time in my podcasts co-host. I invest time in my family, friends, work, interests. I love family, friends, work, interests. I love family, friends, work, interests. I love to crochet and cook. I listen to music to crochet and cook. I listen to music to crochet and cook. I listen to music and podcasts. I like to travel. All and podcasts. I like to travel. All and podcasts. I like to travel. All things humans like to do. And YouTube things humans like to do. And YouTube things humans like to do. And YouTube has found its place in pretty much all has found its place in pretty much all has found its place in pretty much all of it. And that's why I'm so excited to of it. And that's why I'm so excited to of it. And that's why I'm so excited to share with you how YouTube Premium has share with you how YouTube Premium has share with you how YouTube Premium has taken my daily life and made it taken my daily life and made it taken my daily life and made it absolutely seamless. YouTube Premium's absolutely seamless. YouTube Premium's absolutely seamless. YouTube Premium's ad-ree experience means I don't have to ad-ree experience means I don't have to ad-ree experience means I don't have to pause my latest crochet project while I pause my latest crochet project while I pause my latest crochet project while I wait for ads to roll or scramble to wash wait for ads to roll or scramble to wash wait for ads to roll or scramble to wash the sticky mess off my hands mid the sticky mess off my hands mid the sticky mess off my hands mid sourdough loaf to hit skip. And I love sourdough loaf to hit skip. And I love sourdough loaf to hit skip. And I love that I can indulge in all the niche that I can indulge in all the niche that I can indulge in all the niche interests living rentree in my head and interests living rentree in my head and interests living rentree in my head and dive down deep rabbit holes like dive down deep rabbit holes like dive down deep rabbit holes like Applejack's role in My Little Pony: Applejack's role in My Little Pony: Applejack's role in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or watch hours long Friendship is Magic or watch hours long Friendship is Magic or watch hours long video essays learning everything about video essays learning everything about video essays learning everything about anything completely uninterrupted.

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There was an interview in the case file There was an interview in the case file that happened about a month after that happened about a month after that happened about a month after Alyssa's death. It was with this guy Alyssa's death. It was with this guy Alyssa's death. It was with this guy named James. And this is not like the named James. And this is not like the named James. And this is not like the the people that Braden stayed with the people that Braden stayed with the people that Braden stayed with James. James. James. >> Totally different James. >> Totally different James. >> Totally different James. >> Yeah. No, no, no. They talked to him >> Yeah. No, no, no. They talked to him >> Yeah. No, no, no. They talked to him because they discovered him during one because they discovered him during one because they discovered him during one of the initial thermal imaging searches of the initial thermal imaging searches of the initial thermal imaging searches um where they were like had the um where they were like had the um where they were like had the helicopter over the preserve. Now, at helicopter over the preserve. Now, at helicopter over the preserve. Now, at least one other officer recognized this least one other officer recognized this least one other officer recognized this guy because James was unhoused and was a guy because James was unhoused and was a guy because James was unhoused and was a regular there. So much so that the park regular there. So much so that the park regular there. So much so that the park rangers refer to him as the eyes and rangers refer to him as the eyes and rangers refer to him as the eyes and ears of the parks. So when they realize ears of the parks. So when they realize ears of the parks. So when they realize who he was, like they see him sleeping who he was, like they see him sleeping who he was, like they see him sleeping in the park, they just like escorted him in the park, they just like escorted him in the park, they just like escorted him out of the park out of the park out of the park >> and then they waited a month to >> and then they waited a month to >> and then they waited a month to interview him. interview him. interview him. >> I know. I get the sense that police were >> I know. I get the sense that police were >> I know. I get the sense that police were like so familiar with him and his like so familiar with him and his like so familiar with him and his behavior that like behavior that like behavior that like >> he wasn't a concern. Okay, but he's got >> he wasn't a concern. Okay, but he's got >> he wasn't a concern. Okay, but he's got eyes and ears. eyes and ears. eyes and ears. >> I know, but he like appears in the file >> I know, but he like appears in the file >> I know, but he like appears in the file more as a trusted eyewitness than a more as a trusted eyewitness than a more as a trusted eyewitness than a person of interest. Same thing though, person of interest. Same thing though, person of interest. Same thing though, but like if if you're the eyes and the but like if if you're the eyes and the but like if if you're the eyes and the ears, I would love to talk to you day ears, I would love to talk to you day ears, I would love to talk to you day one. They talk to him a month later. one. They talk to him a month later. one. They talk to him a month later. >> Now, at one point, they did straight up >> Now, at one point, they did straight up >> Now, at one point, they did straight up ask him like, "Did you have anything to ask him like, "Did you have anything to ask him like, "Did you have anything to do with her death?" To which James says, do with her death?" To which James says, do with her death?" To which James says, "No, absolutely not." And like that "No, absolutely not." And like that "No, absolutely not." And like that seems to be sufficient for them. But he seems to be sufficient for them. But he seems to be sufficient for them. But he does bring up something interesting in does bring up something interesting in does bring up something interesting in this interview, or rather someone. So, this interview, or rather someone. So, this interview, or rather someone. So, James said that he learned someone had James said that he learned someone had James said that he learned someone had died in the park about a week after died in the park about a week after died in the park about a week after Alyssa's body was found. And that's when Alyssa's body was found. And that's when Alyssa's body was found. And that's when he was talking to his friend Sammy and he was talking to his friend Sammy and he was talking to his friend Sammy and he was asking Sammy if he knew anything he was asking Sammy if he knew anything he was asking Sammy if he knew anything like why are all the helicopters and like why are all the helicopters and like why are all the helicopters and stuff like what's all that about like

stuff like what's all that about like stuff like what's all that about like last week and Sammy told him that a girl last week and Sammy told him that a girl last week and Sammy told him that a girl had drowned in the lake. Now according had drowned in the lake. Now according had drowned in the lake. Now according to James Sammy was a transient who spent to James Sammy was a transient who spent to James Sammy was a transient who spent most of his time between the riparian most of his time between the riparian most of his time between the riparian and like this other local park that he and like this other local park that he and like this other local park that he would bike to. And he sometimes hung out would bike to. And he sometimes hung out would bike to. And he sometimes hung out at the library and the main lake in the at the library and the main lake in the at the library and the main lake in the riparian where he liked to fish. Now, riparian where he liked to fish. Now, riparian where he liked to fish. Now, when the officer asked James if he knew when the officer asked James if he knew when the officer asked James if he knew how Sammy had heard about the death, how Sammy had heard about the death, how Sammy had heard about the death, James said no. Here comes the deja vu James said no. Here comes the deja vu James said no. Here comes the deja vu moment. According to James, Sammy is of moment. According to James, Sammy is of moment. According to James, Sammy is of Thai descent, stands shorter than 6 ft Thai descent, stands shorter than 6 ft Thai descent, stands shorter than 6 ft tall, has medium length dark hair, and tall, has medium length dark hair, and tall, has medium length dark hair, and speaks with an accent. Okay, so this is speaks with an accent. Okay, so this is speaks with an accent. Okay, so this is like matching that description. But like matching that description. But like matching that description. But reading the file, I genuinely wonder if reading the file, I genuinely wonder if reading the file, I genuinely wonder if we are the only ones who have put this we are the only ones who have put this we are the only ones who have put this together because Chelsea told us that together because Chelsea told us that together because Chelsea told us that when she went to police with her tip in when she went to police with her tip in when she went to police with her tip in October, detectives were like, "Okay, October, detectives were like, "Okay, October, detectives were like, "Okay, you know, thanks. We're going to make you know, thanks. We're going to make you know, thanks. We're going to make note of this. note of this. note of this. >> Just write it down." >> Just write it down." >> Just write it down." >> That was it. They didn't seem concerned. >> That was it. They didn't seem concerned. >> That was it. They didn't seem concerned. They didn't seem suspicious of it. And I They didn't seem suspicious of it. And I They didn't seem suspicious of it. And I cannot find a single page of cannot find a single page of cannot find a single page of investigative followup into anyone investigative followup into anyone investigative followup into anyone matching Sammy's name or description. No matching Sammy's name or description. No matching Sammy's name or description. No composite sketch, no search, no flyers, composite sketch, no search, no flyers, composite sketch, no search, no flyers, no nothing, which I cannot explain. As no nothing, which I cannot explain. As no nothing, which I cannot explain. As far as I can tell, to this day, Sammy far as I can tell, to this day, Sammy far as I can tell, to this day, Sammy has never been interviewed. So, if has never been interviewed. So, if has never been interviewed. So, if anyone out there is familiar with anyone out there is familiar with anyone out there is familiar with someone named Sammy, S A M Y, someone someone named Sammy, S A M Y, someone someone named Sammy, S A M Y, someone who matches the description that I just who matches the description that I just who matches the description that I just gave, who lived around Gilbert, Arizona,

gave, who lived around Gilbert, Arizona, gave, who lived around Gilbert, Arizona, email us [email protected]. email us [email protected]. email us [email protected]. I want to keep looking into this. Now, I want to keep looking into this. Now, I want to keep looking into this. Now, while the first two theories could while the first two theories could while the first two theories could involve people, we don't have names for, involve people, we don't have names for, involve people, we don't have names for, this next one, I have a lot of info for, this next one, I have a lot of info for, this next one, I have a lot of info for, so buckle up. So, a full year after so buckle up. So, a full year after so buckle up. So, a full year after Alyssa's body was found, her sister Alyssa's body was found, her sister Alyssa's body was found, her sister Chelsea ends up getting a private Chelsea ends up getting a private Chelsea ends up getting a private Facebook message from a woman who wants Facebook message from a woman who wants Facebook message from a woman who wants to tell her about some suspicious to tell her about some suspicious to tell her about some suspicious activity that she observed at the activity that she observed at the activity that she observed at the Riperian. The woman says that there was Riperian. The woman says that there was Riperian. The woman says that there was this man hanging around the park who was this man hanging around the park who was this man hanging around the park who was like eyeballing her daughter in a way like eyeballing her daughter in a way like eyeballing her daughter in a way that made her look very uncomfortable. that made her look very uncomfortable. that made her look very uncomfortable. And not one to brush that kind of And not one to brush that kind of And not one to brush that kind of unwanted attention off, the woman unwanted attention off, the woman unwanted attention off, the woman decided to follow the man when he left decided to follow the man when he left decided to follow the man when he left the park. She followed as he walked down the park. She followed as he walked down the park. She followed as he walked down the road for over a mile to a Circle K the road for over a mile to a Circle K the road for over a mile to a Circle K and then shoved his backpack into one of and then shoved his backpack into one of and then shoved his backpack into one of the nearby black power boxes. When he the nearby black power boxes. When he the nearby black power boxes. When he did that, something caught this woman's did that, something caught this woman's did that, something caught this woman's eye. She thought that she saw pieces of eye. She thought that she saw pieces of eye. She thought that she saw pieces of clothing in there. And for some reason, clothing in there. And for some reason, clothing in there. And for some reason, that's when it all just like connected that's when it all just like connected that's when it all just like connected for her. She knew about the discovery of for her. She knew about the discovery of for her. She knew about the discovery of Alyssa's body the year before. And here Alyssa's body the year before. And here Alyssa's body the year before. And here was a suspicious man lurking in the same was a suspicious man lurking in the same was a suspicious man lurking in the same area, storing clothes and potentially area, storing clothes and potentially area, storing clothes and potentially more items in a power box. So, she was more items in a power box. So, she was more items in a power box. So, she was reaching out to Chelsea to sort of say reaching out to Chelsea to sort of say reaching out to Chelsea to sort of say like, "Hey, I saw this. I don't know if like, "Hey, I saw this. I don't know if like, "Hey, I saw this. I don't know if this means anything, but maybe you this means anything, but maybe you this means anything, but maybe you should bring it to the attention of should bring it to the attention of should bring it to the attention of police," which Chelsea does. On June

police," which Chelsea does. On June police," which Chelsea does. On June 14th, 2017, she goes to the police 14th, 2017, she goes to the police 14th, 2017, she goes to the police station with her dad to explain the station with her dad to explain the station with her dad to explain the whole situation. And that's when whole situation. And that's when whole situation. And that's when detectives tell her that they'd actually detectives tell her that they'd actually detectives tell her that they'd actually already heard of this guy, spoke to him already heard of this guy, spoke to him already heard of this guy, spoke to him even twice by that point. Once the day even twice by that point. Once the day even twice by that point. Once the day after Alyssa's body was found, and then after Alyssa's body was found, and then after Alyssa's body was found, and then another time just months before they another time just months before they another time just months before they were getting this report from Chelsea. were getting this report from Chelsea. were getting this report from Chelsea. The guy's name was Luis Bueno. And sure The guy's name was Luis Bueno. And sure The guy's name was Luis Bueno. And sure enough, there he is right there in the enough, there he is right there in the enough, there he is right there in the case file early days. From the reports case file early days. From the reports case file early days. From the reports we have, it looks like right after we have, it looks like right after we have, it looks like right after Alyssa's death, he approached police in Alyssa's death, he approached police in Alyssa's death, he approached police in the CVS parking lot, the it's like the CVS parking lot, the it's like the CVS parking lot, the it's like across the street from the riparian. And across the street from the riparian. And across the street from the riparian. And he told them that he was homeless and he he told them that he was homeless and he he told them that he was homeless and he hung out by the preserve from time to hung out by the preserve from time to hung out by the preserve from time to time. But it's what he said next that time. But it's what he said next that time. But it's what he said next that caught their attention. He said that two caught their attention. He said that two caught their attention. He said that two days before, so that would have been days before, so that would have been days before, so that would have been June 9th, June 9th, June 9th, >> the day that Alyssa was reported missing >> the day that Alyssa was reported missing >> the day that Alyssa was reported missing >> and presumably the day that she died, >> and presumably the day that she died, >> and presumably the day that she died, but we don't know for sure. but we don't know for sure. but we don't know for sure. >> He says that he was in the parking lot >> He says that he was in the parking lot >> He says that he was in the parking lot of the LDS church that's across the of the LDS church that's across the of the LDS church that's across the street from the preserve and he heard a street from the preserve and he heard a street from the preserve and he heard a gunshot. Now, Luis couldn't tell where gunshot. Now, Luis couldn't tell where gunshot. Now, Luis couldn't tell where the shot came from or remember exactly the shot came from or remember exactly the shot came from or remember exactly what time he heard it, but he said that what time he heard it, but he said that what time he heard it, but he said that it was quote right before all the cop it was quote right before all the cop it was quote right before all the cop cars arrived, which I'm assuming were cars arrived, which I'm assuming were cars arrived, which I'm assuming were the officers responding to Ed's missing the officers responding to Ed's missing the officers responding to Ed's missing person report for his daughter, Alyssa.

person report for his daughter, Alyssa. person report for his daughter, Alyssa. >> So, that's like pretty late at night. >> So, that's like pretty late at night. >> So, that's like pretty late at night. >> Well, I mean, that's the only time that >> Well, I mean, that's the only time that >> Well, I mean, that's the only time that I know of where the cop cars showed up I know of where the cop cars showed up I know of where the cop cars showed up to the preserve that day. But reminder, to the preserve that day. But reminder, to the preserve that day. But reminder, Alyssa didn't have any gunshot wounds. Alyssa didn't have any gunshot wounds. Alyssa didn't have any gunshot wounds. And Michelle said that when they were And Michelle said that when they were And Michelle said that when they were out there looking like that night, they out there looking like that night, they out there looking like that night, they definitely didn't hear any shots. So, definitely didn't hear any shots. So, definitely didn't hear any shots. So, what is this? I don't know. Now, Luis what is this? I don't know. Now, Luis what is this? I don't know. Now, Luis said that he didn't know anyone who said that he didn't know anyone who said that he didn't know anyone who regularly visited the park, but he did regularly visited the park, but he did regularly visited the park, but he did have something else to share. He says, have something else to share. He says, have something else to share. He says, "You know, one or two days before I "You know, one or two days before I "You know, one or two days before I heard the gunshot, I saw this black guy heard the gunshot, I saw this black guy heard the gunshot, I saw this black guy walking around the park, which he walking around the park, which he walking around the park, which he thought apparently was unusual because thought apparently was unusual because thought apparently was unusual because he had quote never seen a black male he had quote never seen a black male he had quote never seen a black male walk around the park before." end quote. walk around the park before." end quote. walk around the park before." end quote. Which just an FYI, Michelle said this is Which just an FYI, Michelle said this is Which just an FYI, Michelle said this is not consistent with like her experience not consistent with like her experience not consistent with like her experience of the park. Regardless, they don't do of the park. Regardless, they don't do of the park. Regardless, they don't do much with this at the time. Like no one much with this at the time. Like no one much with this at the time. Like no one else seemed to have heard a gunshot. The else seemed to have heard a gunshot. The else seemed to have heard a gunshot. The story just kind of felt like nonsense story just kind of felt like nonsense story just kind of felt like nonsense probably.

probably. probably. But Louise pops up again in the files But Louise pops up again in the files But Louise pops up again in the files about 2 weeks after that conversation. about 2 weeks after that conversation. about 2 weeks after that conversation. And by this point, it's June 25th. And by this point, it's June 25th. And by this point, it's June 25th. >> Okay. So, the investigator writes that >> Okay. So, the investigator writes that >> Okay. So, the investigator writes that she would like to interview him again she would like to interview him again she would like to interview him again about Alyssa's death, but that doesn't about Alyssa's death, but that doesn't about Alyssa's death, but that doesn't actually happen for another 9 months, actually happen for another 9 months, actually happen for another 9 months, which if you ask me, might have which if you ask me, might have which if you ask me, might have something to do with the fact that something to do with the fact that something to do with the fact that investigators were charging like full investigators were charging like full investigators were charging like full steam ahead with their investigation steam ahead with their investigation steam ahead with their investigation into Braden. Then, into Braden. Then, into Braden. Then, >> finally, in March of 2017, detectives >> finally, in March of 2017, detectives >> finally, in March of 2017, detectives picked back up with Luis. This time he picked back up with Luis. This time he picked back up with Luis. This time he was interviewed on the patio of the was interviewed on the patio of the was interviewed on the patio of the library right by the riparian which library right by the riparian which library right by the riparian which investigators wrote is an area that he investigators wrote is an area that he investigators wrote is an area that he is known to frequent. And if you is known to frequent. And if you is known to frequent. And if you remember this is also where Alyssa's remember this is also where Alyssa's remember this is also where Alyssa's like her dad's car was parked and the like her dad's car was parked and the like her dad's car was parked and the library borders the riparian. Right. library borders the riparian. Right. library borders the riparian. Right. >> So in this interview the detective told >> So in this interview the detective told >> So in this interview the detective told Louise that he was investigating the Louise that he was investigating the Louise that he was investigating the death that happened in that area and death that happened in that area and death that happened in that area and before he even said Alyssa's name Louise before he even said Alyssa's name Louise before he even said Alyssa's name Louise responded, "Oh, you mean the lake here?

responded, "Oh, you mean the lake here? responded, "Oh, you mean the lake here? I'm the one that came to the officers to I'm the one that came to the officers to I'm the one that came to the officers to report something. Now, the first thing report something. Now, the first thing report something. Now, the first thing the detectives asked Luis was when the detectives asked Luis was when the detectives asked Luis was when exactly he heard the gunshot that he exactly he heard the gunshot that he exactly he heard the gunshot that he mentioned in his first conversation with mentioned in his first conversation with mentioned in his first conversation with officers. And Luis responded just when officers. And Luis responded just when officers. And Luis responded just when that thing took place with that woman that thing took place with that woman that thing took place with that woman that drowned in the lake. But they said that drowned in the lake. But they said that drowned in the lake. But they said that was a suicide. that was a suicide. that was a suicide. >> Okay. Who's they? >> Okay. Who's they? >> Okay. Who's they? >> I don't know. I would assume the media >> I don't know. I would assume the media >> I don't know. I would assume the media is who he's talking about. is who he's talking about. is who he's talking about. >> Okay. Do we know if Luis even had access >> Okay. Do we know if Luis even had access >> Okay. Do we know if Luis even had access to like news reports? to like news reports? to like news reports? >> He probably did. He told detectives he >> He probably did. He told detectives he >> He probably did. He told detectives he had this like 5-in television and like had this like 5-in television and like had this like 5-in television and like that's how he heard about the death. that's how he heard about the death. that's how he heard about the death. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now, at this point, the detective had >> Now, at this point, the detective had >> Now, at this point, the detective had already told Louise that he was not already told Louise that he was not already told Louise that he was not under arrest, didn't have to speak, and under arrest, didn't have to speak, and under arrest, didn't have to speak, and was free to leave at any time. was free to leave at any time. was free to leave at any time. >> But one of the first things Louise asked >> But one of the first things Louise asked >> But one of the first things Louise asked was, "You don't think I had anything to was, "You don't think I had anything to was, "You don't think I had anything to do with it." do with it." do with it." >> And the investigator didn't answer this. >> And the investigator didn't answer this. >> And the investigator didn't answer this. He just asked Louise to describe what he He just asked Louise to describe what he He just asked Louise to describe what he observed that was so suspicious. And observed that was so suspicious. And observed that was so suspicious. And here we get this same story again about here we get this same story again about here we get this same story again about this like black guy walking the paths this like black guy walking the paths this like black guy walking the paths within the preserve. Louise says that he within the preserve. Louise says that he within the preserve. Louise says that he couldn't remember which path, just that couldn't remember which path, just that couldn't remember which path, just that it was like deep within the preserve and it was like deep within the preserve and it was like deep within the preserve and that he saw him while he was riding his that he saw him while he was riding his that he saw him while he was riding his bike going down the path. And this only bike going down the path. And this only bike going down the path. And this only made less sense when Louise told the made less sense when Louise told the made less sense when Louise told the detectives that he quote hardly goes to detectives that he quote hardly goes to detectives that he quote hardly goes to the preserve. So it was just a the preserve. So it was just a the preserve. So it was just a coincidence that he happened to venture coincidence that he happened to venture coincidence that he happened to venture in there the one night that a woman in there the one night that a woman in there the one night that a woman might have died.

might have died. might have died. >> I guess so. And I think at this point >> I guess so. And I think at this point >> I guess so. And I think at this point Louise might have realized the hole he Louise might have realized the hole he Louise might have realized the hole he was kind of like digging for himself was kind of like digging for himself was kind of like digging for himself because he says, "I give you my word, because he says, "I give you my word, because he says, "I give you my word, sir. I had nothing to do with something sir. I had nothing to do with something sir. I had nothing to do with something like that." Louise said that he just like that." Louise said that he just like that." Louise said that he just reported the suspicious activity because reported the suspicious activity because reported the suspicious activity because it was his duty as a Christian. And then it was his duty as a Christian. And then it was his duty as a Christian. And then Louise sort of changed his tone. Louise sort of changed his tone. Louise sort of changed his tone. According to the police file, he accused According to the police file, he accused According to the police file, he accused the detective of hassling him. And this the detective of hassling him. And this the detective of hassling him. And this is where the police file starts to read is where the police file starts to read is where the police file starts to read as a little bit combative. The detective as a little bit combative. The detective as a little bit combative. The detective told Louise that he believed he had more told Louise that he believed he had more told Louise that he believed he had more information than he had shared. And he information than he had shared. And he information than he had shared. And he asked Louise if he had ever spoken to asked Louise if he had ever spoken to asked Louise if he had ever spoken to Alyssa. And Louise said, quote, "You're Alyssa. And Louise said, quote, "You're Alyssa. And Louise said, quote, "You're going to take me in, huh? For something going to take me in, huh? For something going to take me in, huh? For something I didn't do." So the detective asked I didn't do." So the detective asked I didn't do." So the detective asked again, "Have you ever spoken to Alyssa?" again, "Have you ever spoken to Alyssa?" again, "Have you ever spoken to Alyssa?" This time, Luis didn't even answer. And This time, Luis didn't even answer. And This time, Luis didn't even answer. And when the detective continued on to say when the detective continued on to say when the detective continued on to say that Alyssa was a very talkative person, that Alyssa was a very talkative person, that Alyssa was a very talkative person, Louise said, "Oh my gosh, you're gonna Louise said, "Oh my gosh, you're gonna Louise said, "Oh my gosh, you're gonna turn me in because I'm a sex offender." turn me in because I'm a sex offender." turn me in because I'm a sex offender." >> I'm sorry.

>> I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. Come on. Like, what? Come on. Like, what? Come on. Like, what? >> This is true. And it's not news to the >> This is true. And it's not news to the >> This is true. And it's not news to the detective talking to him. He did his detective talking to him. He did his detective talking to him. He did his homework. Told Luis as much when Luis homework. Told Luis as much when Luis homework. Told Luis as much when Luis started telling him about how he spent started telling him about how he spent started telling him about how he spent 17 years in prison for attempting to 17 years in prison for attempting to 17 years in prison for attempting to assault two women at the same time. But assault two women at the same time. But assault two women at the same time. But Luis insisted that he wasn't actually Luis insisted that he wasn't actually Luis insisted that he wasn't actually guilty of that. guilty of that. guilty of that. >> Except again, the detective already read >> Except again, the detective already read >> Except again, the detective already read the police report. He knew Luis was the police report. He knew Luis was the police report. He knew Luis was downplaying the situation. downplaying the situation. downplaying the situation. >> And he brought up another case where >> And he brought up another case where >> And he brought up another case where Louise was arrested for attempted sexual Louise was arrested for attempted sexual Louise was arrested for attempted sexual assault. And so Louise conceded that assault. And so Louise conceded that assault. And so Louise conceded that while he was claiming he was innocent of while he was claiming he was innocent of while he was claiming he was innocent of the first attempted assault, he was the first attempted assault, he was the first attempted assault, he was responsible for the second. And then I responsible for the second. And then I responsible for the second. And then I guess feeling the need to explain guess feeling the need to explain guess feeling the need to explain himself, Louise launched into this himself, Louise launched into this himself, Louise launched into this personal history about how his mom like personal history about how his mom like personal history about how his mom like put him on something when he was like 16 put him on something when he was like 16 put him on something when he was like 16 or 17 and he had what he calls an or 17 and he had what he calls an or 17 and he had what he calls an explosion like or an explosion went off explosion like or an explosion went off explosion like or an explosion went off in his head like fireworks. And he said in his head like fireworks. And he said in his head like fireworks. And he said when that happened, he immediately when that happened, he immediately when that happened, he immediately turned to crying.

turned to crying. turned to crying. >> What did his mom put him on? >> What did his mom put him on? >> What did his mom put him on? >> All of the files are redacted. I don't >> All of the files are redacted. I don't >> All of the files are redacted. I don't know. But like based on the way Louise know. But like based on the way Louise know. But like based on the way Louise talks like later, he kind of insinuates talks like later, he kind of insinuates talks like later, he kind of insinuates that it was like an anti-depressant. And that it was like an anti-depressant. And that it was like an anti-depressant. And he says that there are countless stories he says that there are countless stories he says that there are countless stories of anti-depressants causing people to of anti-depressants causing people to of anti-depressants causing people to quote go off. quote go off. quote go off. >> Was this his way of sort of like >> Was this his way of sort of like >> Was this his way of sort of like admitting admitting admitting some sort of responsibility? some sort of responsibility? some sort of responsibility? >> No, I don't think so because Louise >> No, I don't think so because Louise >> No, I don't think so because Louise suggested that that was the old him, but suggested that that was the old him, but suggested that that was the old him, but he has control now and is quote normal he has control now and is quote normal he has control now and is quote normal again. Now, this first official again. Now, this first official again. Now, this first official interview with Louise ended with him interview with Louise ended with him interview with Louise ended with him asking if the detective wanted him to asking if the detective wanted him to asking if the detective wanted him to take a polygraph test. take a polygraph test. take a polygraph test. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. Please. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. Please. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. Please. >> And the detective tries to set it up >> And the detective tries to set it up >> And the detective tries to set it up immediately. He called the polygrapher, immediately. He called the polygrapher, immediately. He called the polygrapher, made the arrangements, and drove Louise made the arrangements, and drove Louise made the arrangements, and drove Louise to the police department where, quote, to the police department where, quote, to the police department where, quote, he was provided with the opportunity to he was provided with the opportunity to he was provided with the opportunity to take the polygraph test. take the polygraph test. take the polygraph test. >> Love that phrasing. >> Love that phrasing. >> Love that phrasing. >> Yeah. But I don't think he did. Oh, I >> Yeah. But I don't think he did. Oh, I >> Yeah. But I don't think he did. Oh, I don't know why exactly or what happened don't know why exactly or what happened don't know why exactly or what happened because it's redacted in the file, but because it's redacted in the file, but because it's redacted in the file, but there is no mention of any polygraph there is no mention of any polygraph there is no mention of any polygraph results. Or maybe it's the results that results. Or maybe it's the results that results. Or maybe it's the results that are redacted. Who knows? I just know are redacted. Who knows? I just know are redacted. Who knows? I just know that Louise was subsequently released.

that Louise was subsequently released. that Louise was subsequently released. And so then fast forward 3 months, And so then fast forward 3 months, And so then fast forward 3 months, that's when Chelsea comes forward with that's when Chelsea comes forward with that's when Chelsea comes forward with her tip. And when she does, it's not her tip. And when she does, it's not her tip. And when she does, it's not just some random like guy. She's like, I just some random like guy. She's like, I just some random like guy. She's like, I saw this guy. And they're connecting the saw this guy. And they're connecting the saw this guy. And they're connecting the dots. He has Louise's name because the dots. He has Louise's name because the dots. He has Louise's name because the woman who told her about this whole woman who told her about this whole woman who told her about this whole thing literally like looked up the sex thing literally like looked up the sex thing literally like looked up the sex offender registry list and like IDed offender registry list and like IDed offender registry list and like IDed Louise. Louise. Louise. >> She's out here like doing the most but >> She's out here like doing the most but >> She's out here like doing the most but like in the best way possible. like in the best way possible. like in the best way possible. >> Total crime junkie. Yeah. And she did >> Total crime junkie. Yeah. And she did >> Total crime junkie. Yeah. And she did even more because not only did she share even more because not only did she share even more because not only did she share this tip with Chelsea like, "Hey, you this tip with Chelsea like, "Hey, you this tip with Chelsea like, "Hey, you might want to share this with the might want to share this with the might want to share this with the police. You might want to check this police. You might want to check this police. You might want to check this out." She actually did go straight to out." She actually did go straight to out." She actually did go straight to police herself with this information 3 police herself with this information 3 police herself with this information 3 months before in March. Is that what months before in March. Is that what months before in March. Is that what spurred them to talk to him like the spurred them to talk to him like the spurred them to talk to him like the second time? second time? second time? >> No. Because jurisdiction made it so that >> No. Because jurisdiction made it so that >> No. Because jurisdiction made it so that this tipster's call got routed to Mesa this tipster's call got routed to Mesa this tipster's call got routed to Mesa PD. So when Chelsea is going to them, PD. So when Chelsea is going to them, PD. So when Chelsea is going to them, they're like, "Okay, yeah, we know this they're like, "Okay, yeah, we know this they're like, "Okay, yeah, we know this guy. We want to talk to him again." But guy. We want to talk to him again." But guy. We want to talk to him again." But by then they can't find Luis.

by then they can't find Luis. by then they can't find Luis. >> Okay. Everything you've told me about >> Okay. Everything you've told me about >> Okay. Everything you've told me about him, he like frequents like three places him, he like frequents like three places him, he like frequents like three places in a onem radius. in a onem radius. in a onem radius. >> I know. What do you mean you can't find >> I know. What do you mean you can't find >> I know. What do you mean you can't find him? him? him? >> I don't know. I can see a note in the >> I don't know. I can see a note in the >> I don't know. I can see a note in the file that says they sent out like over a file that says they sent out like over a file that says they sent out like over a thousand flyers with his information. thousand flyers with his information. thousand flyers with his information. Like they're doing something to look for Like they're doing something to look for Like they're doing something to look for him. But the thing is like I don't know him. But the thing is like I don't know him. But the thing is like I don't know where they're sending all those flyers where they're sending all those flyers where they're sending all those flyers because it couldn't have been or doesn't because it couldn't have been or doesn't because it couldn't have been or doesn't seem like it was the library seem like it was the library seem like it was the library >> where he is all the time. >> where he is all the time. >> where he is all the time. >> And that's where they find him in >> And that's where they find him in >> And that's where they find him in November of 2018. November of 2018. November of 2018. And when the detective approaches the And when the detective approaches the And when the detective approaches the library manager, like when they have him library manager, like when they have him library manager, like when they have him this time and they're like, "Hey, can do this time and they're like, "Hey, can do this time and they're like, "Hey, can do you have a room or something that we can you have a room or something that we can you have a room or something that we can use to like interview this guy?" The use to like interview this guy?" The use to like interview this guy?" The library manager says, quote, "He comes library manager says, quote, "He comes library manager says, quote, "He comes to the library almost daily." to the library almost daily." to the library almost daily." So like there he was. So like there he was. So like there he was. >> So then where were they looking for him? >> So then where were they looking for him? >> So then where were they looking for him? >> It feels like maybe they weren't cuz >> It feels like maybe they weren't cuz >> It feels like maybe they weren't cuz when they sit down with him, he says when they sit down with him, he says when they sit down with him, he says that he'd offered to take a polygraph in that he'd offered to take a polygraph in that he'd offered to take a polygraph in the past, but then he was never the past, but then he was never the past, but then he was never contacted again.

contacted again. contacted again. >> So I mean there's that answer. The >> So I mean there's that answer. The >> So I mean there's that answer. The detective says that's why he's there detective says that's why he's there detective says that's why he's there now. Okay, like let's we're going to now. Okay, like let's we're going to now. Okay, like let's we're going to have a second official interview. have a second official interview. have a second official interview. >> In it, Louise relays the same story >> In it, Louise relays the same story >> In it, Louise relays the same story about this like black guy that he sees about this like black guy that he sees about this like black guy that he sees in the preserve. But then the in the preserve. But then the in the preserve. But then the investigator quickly like turns the investigator quickly like turns the investigator quickly like turns the tables. He tells Louise that there are tables. He tells Louise that there are tables. He tells Louise that there are people that believe he was involved in people that believe he was involved in people that believe he was involved in Alyssa's death. And Louise is like, Alyssa's death. And Louise is like, Alyssa's death. And Louise is like, "How? Nobody searched my backpack." "How? Nobody searched my backpack." "How? Nobody searched my backpack." Sir, no one Sir, no one Sir, no one >> not the answer that you like are >> not the answer that you like are >> not the answer that you like are expecting here. expecting here. expecting here. >> Nope. And he's kind of right. Gilbert PD >> Nope. And he's kind of right. Gilbert PD >> Nope. And he's kind of right. Gilbert PD never searched his backpack. never searched his backpack. never searched his backpack. >> We didn't know we had to. >> We didn't know we had to. >> We didn't know we had to. >> Yeah. What backpack? But Mesa PD had >> Yeah. What backpack? But Mesa PD had >> Yeah. What backpack? But Mesa PD had searched a backpack of his when that searched a backpack of his when that searched a backpack of his when that call got routed to them in 2017. call got routed to them in 2017. call got routed to them in 2017. And you are not going to believe what And you are not going to believe what And you are not going to believe what they found inside of it. On September 7th, ID presents a new On September 7th, ID presents a new documentary event, OJ Unseen: documentary event, OJ Unseen: documentary event, OJ Unseen: Exploitation of Evil. 10 years after OJ Exploitation of Evil. 10 years after OJ Exploitation of Evil. 10 years after OJ Simpson's divisive murder trial, OJ Simpson's divisive murder trial, OJ Simpson's divisive murder trial, OJ starred in a hidden camera prank show starred in a hidden camera prank show starred in a hidden camera prank show called Juiced. The infamous reality show called Juiced. The infamous reality show called Juiced. The infamous reality show never aired, and most of its shocking never aired, and most of its shocking never aired, and most of its shocking footage has never been seen until now.

footage has never been seen until now. footage has never been seen until now. For OJ, juicest was a misguided and For OJ, juicest was a misguided and For OJ, juicest was a misguided and desperate attempt to rehabilitate his desperate attempt to rehabilitate his desperate attempt to rehabilitate his public image after the trial of the public image after the trial of the public image after the trial of the century, exposing his fixation and century, exposing his fixation and century, exposing his fixation and endless pursuit of celebrity and endless pursuit of celebrity and endless pursuit of celebrity and notoriety through entertainment. OJ notoriety through entertainment. OJ notoriety through entertainment. OJ Unseen raises provocative new questions Unseen raises provocative new questions Unseen raises provocative new questions about O.J. Simpson with exclusive about O.J. Simpson with exclusive about O.J. Simpson with exclusive behind-the-scenes footage, unear behind-the-scenes footage, unear behind-the-scenes footage, unear interviews with O.J. himself, and interviews with O.J. himself, and interviews with O.J. himself, and firstirhand accounts from the creators firstirhand accounts from the creators firstirhand accounts from the creators and crew, who staged tasteless pranks and crew, who staged tasteless pranks and crew, who staged tasteless pranks with O.J. to capitalize on pop culture's with O.J. to capitalize on pop culture's with O.J. to capitalize on pop culture's enduring fascination with the scandal. enduring fascination with the scandal. enduring fascination with the scandal. Don't miss OJ Unseen, Exploitation of Don't miss OJ Unseen, Exploitation of Don't miss OJ Unseen, Exploitation of Evil, a new documentary event premiering Evil, a new documentary event premiering Evil, a new documentary event premiering September 7th on ID or stream on HBO September 7th on ID or stream on HBO September 7th on ID or stream on HBO Max. Mesa PD's Search of the Backpack Mesa PD's Search of the Backpack happened in 2017. happened in 2017. happened in 2017. Now, it doesn't seem like the dots are Now, it doesn't seem like the dots are Now, it doesn't seem like the dots are connected right away, but by the time connected right away, but by the time connected right away, but by the time Gilbert PD is interviewing Luis in 2018, Gilbert PD is interviewing Luis in 2018, Gilbert PD is interviewing Luis in 2018, they have at least Mesa PD's intake they have at least Mesa PD's intake they have at least Mesa PD's intake report, which talks about what they report, which talks about what they report, which talks about what they found in the backyard.

found in the backyard. found in the backyard. >> So, the detective who's talking to Luis >> So, the detective who's talking to Luis >> So, the detective who's talking to Luis now begins to go through the list with now begins to go through the list with now begins to go through the list with Louise one by one, asking him about each Louise one by one, asking him about each Louise one by one, asking him about each item. First up, pair of gloves. And item. First up, pair of gloves. And item. First up, pair of gloves. And Louis is like, "I'm homeless." But the Louis is like, "I'm homeless." But the Louis is like, "I'm homeless." But the detective is like, "Yeah, no, I'm detective is like, "Yeah, no, I'm detective is like, "Yeah, no, I'm looking at latex surgical gloves." And looking at latex surgical gloves." And looking at latex surgical gloves." And that's when Luis is like, "Oh, I worked that's when Luis is like, "Oh, I worked that's when Luis is like, "Oh, I worked at PETA Jungle." And so, like, I would at PETA Jungle." And so, like, I would at PETA Jungle." And so, like, I would take the gloves home. take the gloves home. take the gloves home. >> But surgical gloves, >> But surgical gloves, >> But surgical gloves, >> that's what he says. >> that's what he says. >> that's what he says. >> And correct me if I'm wrong, there were >> And correct me if I'm wrong, there were >> And correct me if I'm wrong, there were latex gloves found at Alyssa's crime latex gloves found at Alyssa's crime latex gloves found at Alyssa's crime scene. scene. scene. >> There sure were. Mesa also found a >> There sure were. Mesa also found a >> There sure were. Mesa also found a woman's hair tie in his bag. And when woman's hair tie in his bag. And when woman's hair tie in his bag. And when asked, Louise says like, "Well, I must asked, Louise says like, "Well, I must asked, Louise says like, "Well, I must have just had long hair at the time." have just had long hair at the time." have just had long hair at the time." >> Is that true? >> Is that true? >> Is that true? >> There's no description of Louise in the >> There's no description of Louise in the >> There's no description of Louise in the file, nor photos of him in 2017 when the file, nor photos of him in 2017 when the file, nor photos of him in 2017 when the bag was recovered. But our reporter did bag was recovered. But our reporter did bag was recovered. But our reporter did get a hold of the woman who like get a hold of the woman who like get a hold of the woman who like followed him, found the backpack in followed him, found the backpack in followed him, found the backpack in 2017. And she said back then he did have 2017. And she said back then he did have 2017. And she said back then he did have longer hair, like it fell just below his longer hair, like it fell just below his longer hair, like it fell just below his chin. But she said that she never saw chin. But she said that she never saw chin. But she said that she never saw him like wear it pulled back into a him like wear it pulled back into a him like wear it pulled back into a ponytail. So, okay, whatever. Next, the ponytail. So, okay, whatever. Next, the ponytail. So, okay, whatever. Next, the detective brings up some religious detective brings up some religious detective brings up some religious writings that Mesa found in the back.

writings that Mesa found in the back. writings that Mesa found in the back. >> Like religious writings that could be >> Like religious writings that could be >> Like religious writings that could be connected to the woman we know connected to the woman we know connected to the woman we know >> looking for a Bible every day to pray >> looking for a Bible every day to pray >> looking for a Bible every day to pray with her Bible. with her Bible. with her Bible. >> But not according to Louise. He says >> But not according to Louise. He says >> But not according to Louise. He says that those writings were his. He's a that those writings were his. He's a that those writings were his. He's a Christian. He writes like that all the Christian. He writes like that all the Christian. He writes like that all the time. In fact, he says he has so many time. In fact, he says he has so many time. In fact, he says he has so many writings about angels and demons that if writings about angels and demons that if writings about angels and demons that if they want even he can show them. So the they want even he can show them. So the they want even he can show them. So the detective is like, "Okay, great. Would detective is like, "Okay, great. Would detective is like, "Okay, great. Would love to see where." And then Louise love to see where." And then Louise love to see where." And then Louise says, "Oh, actually like I only carry says, "Oh, actually like I only carry says, "Oh, actually like I only carry essential items with me." So like I I essential items with me." So like I I essential items with me." So like I I can't show you can't show you can't show you >> essential items like surgical gloves and >> essential items like surgical gloves and >> essential items like surgical gloves and hair. I say a hair tie for the long hair hair. I say a hair tie for the long hair hair. I say a hair tie for the long hair you don't currently have. you don't currently have. you don't currently have. >> Right. Now I don't know the exact >> Right. Now I don't know the exact >> Right. Now I don't know the exact contents of these writings. I know Mesa contents of these writings. I know Mesa contents of these writings. I know Mesa PD impounded everything that they PD impounded everything that they PD impounded everything that they collected, that bag and everything in collected, that bag and everything in collected, that bag and everything in it. So, we filed a foyer for the intake it. So, we filed a foyer for the intake it. So, we filed a foyer for the intake form, any photos, like anything. Yeah. form, any photos, like anything. Yeah. form, any photos, like anything. Yeah. But Mesa PD told us that no photos were But Mesa PD told us that no photos were But Mesa PD told us that no photos were taken from the incident and there was taken from the incident and there was taken from the incident and there was like not even body cam footage. All they like not even body cam footage. All they like not even body cam footage. All they gave us was the incident report and the gave us was the incident report and the gave us was the incident report and the catalog.

catalog. catalog. >> Okay. But to me, even more than what the >> Okay. But to me, even more than what the >> Okay. But to me, even more than what the religious notes say. I feel like the religious notes say. I feel like the religious notes say. I feel like the handwriting itself would tell you handwriting itself would tell you handwriting itself would tell you everything you need to know. everything you need to know. everything you need to know. >> I know. But like I said, no photos. And >> I know. But like I said, no photos. And >> I know. But like I said, no photos. And Gilbert PD doesn't get to expand on Mesa Gilbert PD doesn't get to expand on Mesa Gilbert PD doesn't get to expand on Mesa PD's report because Gilbert PD never got PD's report because Gilbert PD never got PD's report because Gilbert PD never got to actually see the items either because to actually see the items either because to actually see the items either because per a note in the file, the items got per a note in the file, the items got per a note in the file, the items got destroyed by Mesa PD in May of 2017. destroyed by Mesa PD in May of 2017. destroyed by Mesa PD in May of 2017. Quote, in accordance with their policy. Quote, in accordance with their policy. Quote, in accordance with their policy. So like not that long after they No, not So like not that long after they No, not So like not that long after they No, not that long after they collected them. that long after they collected them. that long after they collected them. >> And did anyone test this stuff in >> And did anyone test this stuff in >> And did anyone test this stuff in relation to Alyssa's case? Like there relation to Alyssa's case? Like there relation to Alyssa's case? Like there was no time to. Mesa PD is the one that was no time to. Mesa PD is the one that was no time to. Mesa PD is the one that responded. Like responded. Like responded. Like >> they never connected the dots. >> they never connected the dots. >> they never connected the dots. >> No. All they knew was that they were >> No. All they knew was that they were >> No. All they knew was that they were holding on to items that like a local holding on to items that like a local holding on to items that like a local resident said like it seems suspicious. resident said like it seems suspicious. resident said like it seems suspicious. Someone put it in there and they were Someone put it in there and they were Someone put it in there and they were like unclaimed items. They did not know like unclaimed items. They did not know like unclaimed items. They did not know that those items could be connected to a that those items could be connected to a that those items could be connected to a crime that Gilbert Py was in charge of. crime that Gilbert Py was in charge of. crime that Gilbert Py was in charge of. Bottom line is if there was anything in Bottom line is if there was anything in Bottom line is if there was anything in that bag that could definitively tie that bag that could definitively tie that bag that could definitively tie Louise to Alyssa's death, we will never Louise to Alyssa's death, we will never Louise to Alyssa's death, we will never know. Cuz by the time Gilbert PD pieced know. Cuz by the time Gilbert PD pieced know. Cuz by the time Gilbert PD pieced it all together and inquired about the it all together and inquired about the it all together and inquired about the bag, it was too late. Everything was bag, it was too late. Everything was bag, it was too late. Everything was gone. But let's go back to the Louise gone. But let's go back to the Louise gone. But let's go back to the Louise interview. No, Gilbert PD didn't search interview. No, Gilbert PD didn't search interview. No, Gilbert PD didn't search the backpack. but they know Mesa PD did the backpack. but they know Mesa PD did the backpack. but they know Mesa PD did and there was enough there written in and there was enough there written in and there was enough there written in their report to make them suspicious.

their report to make them suspicious. their report to make them suspicious. Now, at this point in the interview, Now, at this point in the interview, Now, at this point in the interview, Louise again brings up his sex offender Louise again brings up his sex offender Louise again brings up his sex offender status, but restates that he was status, but restates that he was status, but restates that he was innocent of his assault charges. And he innocent of his assault charges. And he innocent of his assault charges. And he elaborates more this time and tells the elaborates more this time and tells the elaborates more this time and tells the detectives that he committed a burglary detectives that he committed a burglary detectives that he committed a burglary where two women fell out of a window. where two women fell out of a window. where two women fell out of a window. But then they went to court and claimed But then they went to court and claimed But then they went to court and claimed that he sexually assaulted them and the that he sexually assaulted them and the that he sexually assaulted them and the only reason he plead guilty was because only reason he plead guilty was because only reason he plead guilty was because he went to court chained to a lot of men he went to court chained to a lot of men he went to court chained to a lot of men who wanted to do bad things to him. So, who wanted to do bad things to him. So, who wanted to do bad things to him. So, he was forced to is what he says. Do we he was forced to is what he says. Do we he was forced to is what he says. Do we know anything about this case? know anything about this case? know anything about this case? >> Well, I wouldn't just from Gilbert's >> Well, I wouldn't just from Gilbert's >> Well, I wouldn't just from Gilbert's report. There is nothing there, but report. There is nothing there, but report. There is nothing there, but obviously I am here trying to solve a obviously I am here trying to solve a obviously I am here trying to solve a mysterious death, not to just like tell mysterious death, not to just like tell mysterious death, not to just like tell you a story. So, we foyed the Maricopa you a story. So, we foyed the Maricopa you a story. So, we foyed the Maricopa County Superior Court. And according to County Superior Court. And according to County Superior Court. And according to those files, the first incident those files, the first incident those files, the first incident involving Louise took place in June involving Louise took place in June involving Louise took place in June 1990. He would have been just around 1990. He would have been just around 1990. He would have been just around like 20 at the time. And the file says like 20 at the time. And the file says like 20 at the time. And the file says that he ambushed two sisters while they that he ambushed two sisters while they that he ambushed two sisters while they were asleep at home and that he was were asleep at home and that he was were asleep at home and that he was already naked when he jumped on them in already naked when he jumped on them in already naked when he jumped on them in their shared bed and attempted to their shared bed and attempted to their shared bed and attempted to assault them.

assault them. assault them. >> And this is what Louise is talking about >> And this is what Louise is talking about >> And this is what Louise is talking about when he said two women fell out a when he said two women fell out a when he said two women fell out a window. window. window. >> I am not 100% sure because we weren't >> I am not 100% sure because we weren't >> I am not 100% sure because we weren't given the full incident report, only the given the full incident report, only the given the full incident report, only the court filing. So like it's possible, but court filing. So like it's possible, but court filing. So like it's possible, but there's like no mention of a window or there's like no mention of a window or there's like no mention of a window or anything that I can see. Now, the second anything that I can see. Now, the second anything that I can see. Now, the second incident took place in February of 1991, incident took place in February of 1991, incident took place in February of 1991, and we actually do have the full and we actually do have the full and we actually do have the full incident report for it. It says that incident report for it. It says that incident report for it. It says that Louise forced his way into a physical Louise forced his way into a physical Louise forced his way into a physical therapy office naked, found a woman as therapy office naked, found a woman as therapy office naked, found a woman as she was leaving work, and forced her to she was leaving work, and forced her to she was leaving work, and forced her to the floor where he tore her clothes off, the floor where he tore her clothes off, the floor where he tore her clothes off, and attempted to sexually assault her. and attempted to sexually assault her. and attempted to sexually assault her. Louise hit her in the face several Louise hit her in the face several Louise hit her in the face several times, threatened to kill her if she times, threatened to kill her if she times, threatened to kill her if she didn't shut up. But right then, the didn't shut up. But right then, the didn't shut up. But right then, the burglar alarm sounded and the office burglar alarm sounded and the office burglar alarm sounded and the office phone rang. So, Luis ran off. And how phone rang. So, Luis ran off. And how phone rang. So, Luis ran off. And how did they know it was Luis, you might did they know it was Luis, you might did they know it was Luis, you might ask? Well, according to the file, he ask? Well, according to the file, he ask? Well, according to the file, he defecated at the scene. But I don't even defecated at the scene. But I don't even defecated at the scene. But I don't even know if they like had to test that know if they like had to test that know if they like had to test that because he also left his photo ID there because he also left his photo ID there because he also left his photo ID there as well. Now, what's interesting about as well. Now, what's interesting about as well. Now, what's interesting about all of this is the prosecution moved to all of this is the prosecution moved to all of this is the prosecution moved to try both crimes at the same time, citing try both crimes at the same time, citing try both crimes at the same time, citing that, quote, "The offenses charged that, quote, "The offenses charged that, quote, "The offenses charged therein are of the same or similar therein are of the same or similar therein are of the same or similar character, are part of a common scheme character, are part of a common scheme character, are part of a common scheme or plan, and the evidence in each case or plan, and the evidence in each case or plan, and the evidence in each case is admissible in the other for purposes is admissible in the other for purposes is admissible in the other for purposes of proving intent, plan, knowledge, and of proving intent, plan, knowledge, and of proving intent, plan, knowledge, and identity." In their motion, the identity." In their motion, the identity." In their motion, the prosecution noted that in both cases, prosecution noted that in both cases, prosecution noted that in both cases, while already naked, Luis ambushed

while already naked, Luis ambushed while already naked, Luis ambushed unsuspecting victims that he didn't know unsuspecting victims that he didn't know unsuspecting victims that he didn't know prior and attempted to sexually assault prior and attempted to sexually assault prior and attempted to sexually assault them. Louise said that he got the urge them. Louise said that he got the urge them. Louise said that he got the urge to rape victims shortly after seeing to rape victims shortly after seeing to rape victims shortly after seeing them and then just acted spontaneously. them and then just acted spontaneously. them and then just acted spontaneously. He got convicted on all three counts of He got convicted on all three counts of He got convicted on all three counts of attempted sexual assault and he went to attempted sexual assault and he went to attempted sexual assault and he went to prison for 17 years. prison for 17 years. prison for 17 years. So, now let's circle back to Alyssa's So, now let's circle back to Alyssa's So, now let's circle back to Alyssa's case because there are a lot of dots case because there are a lot of dots case because there are a lot of dots here that kind of connect themselves. here that kind of connect themselves. here that kind of connect themselves. For one, we know Alyssa was found naked For one, we know Alyssa was found naked For one, we know Alyssa was found naked and some of the clothing that was found and some of the clothing that was found and some of the clothing that was found nearby the crime scene was torn. nearby the crime scene was torn. nearby the crime scene was torn. According to reports, Alyssa's DNA According to reports, Alyssa's DNA According to reports, Alyssa's DNA wasn't found on any of that clothing. wasn't found on any of that clothing. wasn't found on any of that clothing. But I can't help but think back to the But I can't help but think back to the But I can't help but think back to the original woman who messaged Chelsea on original woman who messaged Chelsea on original woman who messaged Chelsea on Facebook. She mentioned seeing Louise Facebook. She mentioned seeing Louise Facebook. She mentioned seeing Louise put clothing in the backpack in the put clothing in the backpack in the put clothing in the backpack in the power box. Obviously, all of it would power box. Obviously, all of it would power box. Obviously, all of it would have been destroyed by Mesa PD if it was have been destroyed by Mesa PD if it was have been destroyed by Mesa PD if it was even still there by the time they even still there by the time they even still there by the time they collected it. collected it. collected it. >> Now, we know Louise was at the library >> Now, we know Louise was at the library >> Now, we know Louise was at the library every day, according to the librarian. every day, according to the librarian. every day, according to the librarian. >> Almost every day. >> Almost every day. >> Almost every day. >> Alyssa gets there very early in the >> Alyssa gets there very early in the >> Alyssa gets there very early in the morning before the library is open morning before the library is open morning before the library is open before anyone is around. Does Louise see before anyone is around. Does Louise see before anyone is around. Does Louise see her and get a spontaneous urge like he her and get a spontaneous urge like he her and get a spontaneous urge like he admitted to having in his previous admitted to having in his previous admitted to having in his previous crimes?

crimes? crimes? Someone took Alyssa's clothes and her Someone took Alyssa's clothes and her Someone took Alyssa's clothes and her journal with her religious writings. journal with her religious writings. journal with her religious writings. Louise has those kind of writings in his Louise has those kind of writings in his Louise has those kind of writings in his backpack. He has a woman's hair tie. He backpack. He has a woman's hair tie. He backpack. He has a woman's hair tie. He has latex gloves and latex gloves were has latex gloves and latex gloves were has latex gloves and latex gloves were found at the scene. So, knowing that, found at the scene. So, knowing that, found at the scene. So, knowing that, let's circle back to that November 2018 let's circle back to that November 2018 let's circle back to that November 2018 interview at the library. Once again, interview at the library. Once again, interview at the library. Once again, Louise and the detective start Louise and the detective start Louise and the detective start discussing a polygraph test. Luis asked discussing a polygraph test. Luis asked discussing a polygraph test. Luis asked the detective what good a poly would do the detective what good a poly would do the detective what good a poly would do if it wouldn't 100% clear him. And the if it wouldn't 100% clear him. And the if it wouldn't 100% clear him. And the detective says that it would at least detective says that it would at least detective says that it would at least help eliminate him, right? So then for help eliminate him, right? So then for help eliminate him, right? So then for the second time, a polygraph is the second time, a polygraph is the second time, a polygraph is scheduled like not right then, but it's scheduled like not right then, but it's scheduled like not right then, but it's scheduled for the end of the month, scheduled for the end of the month, scheduled for the end of the month, November 29th, 2018. But before it can November 29th, 2018. But before it can November 29th, 2018. But before it can happen, Louise calls to reschedu for happen, Louise calls to reschedu for happen, Louise calls to reschedu for December 4th, because he will no longer December 4th, because he will no longer December 4th, because he will no longer be available at that time in November. be available at that time in November. be available at that time in November. >> I I'm like dying to know what he's so >> I I'm like dying to know what he's so >> I I'm like dying to know what he's so busy doing. busy doing. busy doing. >> I have no idea. So December 4th comes, >> I have no idea. So December 4th comes, >> I have no idea. So December 4th comes, Louise and the officer, they do meet, Louise and the officer, they do meet, Louise and the officer, they do meet, but it seems like the meeting is just but it seems like the meeting is just but it seems like the meeting is just for the officer to relay to Louise that for the officer to relay to Louise that for the officer to relay to Louise that the polygrapher won't be available now the polygrapher won't be available now the polygrapher won't be available now until December 27th. So Louise agrees to until December 27th. So Louise agrees to until December 27th. So Louise agrees to meet the detective then, but on that meet the detective then, but on that meet the detective then, but on that date, the detective shows up to the date, the detective shows up to the date, the detective shows up to the library, waits for an hour and 15 library, waits for an hour and 15 library, waits for an hour and 15 minutes, and Luis never shows. He never minutes, and Luis never shows. He never minutes, and Luis never shows. He never texts, he never calls. And from the texts, he never calls. And from the texts, he never calls. And from the files I have, that seems like the end files I have, that seems like the end files I have, that seems like the end with Luis, there is nothing to show that with Luis, there is nothing to show that with Luis, there is nothing to show that he has ever been interviewed again since

he has ever been interviewed again since he has ever been interviewed again since 2018. 2018. 2018. So, as far as I can tell, he was never So, as far as I can tell, he was never So, as far as I can tell, he was never even given that polygraph examination even given that polygraph examination even given that polygraph examination that he apparently agreed to, said he that he apparently agreed to, said he that he apparently agreed to, said he would do. would do. would do. >> Okay. It's It sounds like he had a >> Okay. It's It sounds like he had a >> Okay. It's It sounds like he had a phone, though. like call him, reschedu phone, though. like call him, reschedu phone, though. like call him, reschedu like like like >> well like apparently all you have to do >> well like apparently all you have to do >> well like apparently all you have to do to get off Gilbert Py's radar is like to get off Gilbert Py's radar is like to get off Gilbert Py's radar is like >> ghost them >> ghost them >> ghost them >> not call them which is like great. >> not call them which is like great. >> not call them which is like great. >> I mean is it like that they like somehow >> I mean is it like that they like somehow >> I mean is it like that they like somehow can't find him again? can't find him again? can't find him again? >> I don't know for sure, but if I had to >> I don't know for sure, but if I had to >> I don't know for sure, but if I had to hazard a guess, I would say that this hazard a guess, I would say that this hazard a guess, I would say that this guy is probably just like in the same guy is probably just like in the same guy is probably just like in the same oneb block radius that he's been since oneb block radius that he's been since oneb block radius that he's been since the start. Like the start. Like the start. Like >> if they really wanted to pin this guy >> if they really wanted to pin this guy >> if they really wanted to pin this guy down, I just don't think it would be down, I just don't think it would be down, I just don't think it would be that hard. that hard. that hard. >> Yeah, it seems like they like aren't >> Yeah, it seems like they like aren't >> Yeah, it seems like they like aren't even trying. even trying. even trying. >> It doesn't even seem like they're >> It doesn't even seem like they're >> It doesn't even seem like they're interested in talking to him again interested in talking to him again interested in talking to him again because it's not that they can't find because it's not that they can't find because it's not that they can't find him. You know what? I actually know that him. You know what? I actually know that him. You know what? I actually know that because we requested a list from the because we requested a list from the because we requested a list from the Gilbert PD of all the police records Gilbert PD of all the police records Gilbert PD of all the police records involving Luis Bueno. And he's most involving Luis Bueno. And he's most involving Luis Bueno. And he's most definitely been in contact with police definitely been in contact with police definitely been in contact with police officers since 2018. like records show officers since 2018. like records show officers since 2018. like records show that he has been named in reports for that he has been named in reports for that he has been named in reports for traffic violations, urinating and traffic violations, urinating and traffic violations, urinating and defecating in public, trespassing, and defecating in public, trespassing, and defecating in public, trespassing, and more. We tried to reach him for comment, more. We tried to reach him for comment, more. We tried to reach him for comment, but we never heard back from any of the but we never heard back from any of the but we never heard back from any of the numbers that we tried, including those numbers that we tried, including those numbers that we tried, including those in his court records. All of those have in his court records. All of those have in his court records. All of those have been disconnected. So, I think next step been disconnected. So, I think next step been disconnected. So, I think next step would be a visit to the library. Right.

would be a visit to the library. Right. would be a visit to the library. Right. The way I see it, there are a lot of The way I see it, there are a lot of The way I see it, there are a lot of things that don't look great for Louise things that don't look great for Louise things that don't look great for Louise in this, but there isn't any hard in this, but there isn't any hard in this, but there isn't any hard evidence they have, but I also like I evidence they have, but I also like I evidence they have, but I also like I don't feel like it doesn't feel like don't feel like it doesn't feel like don't feel like it doesn't feel like they're looking for it. Doesn't feel they're looking for it. Doesn't feel they're looking for it. Doesn't feel like they're really trying to get to the like they're really trying to get to the like they're really trying to get to the bottom of this. It feels like the case bottom of this. It feels like the case bottom of this. It feels like the case has stalled and nothing is happening. has stalled and nothing is happening. has stalled and nothing is happening. So, we reached out to the Gilbert PD to So, we reached out to the Gilbert PD to So, we reached out to the Gilbert PD to see what is happening with this case. see what is happening with this case. see what is happening with this case. And in the 11th hour, of course, always And in the 11th hour, of course, always And in the 11th hour, of course, always they gave us this statement that I'll they gave us this statement that I'll they gave us this statement that I'll have you read. The initial death investigation The initial death investigation involving Alyssa Romanine has been involving Alyssa Romanine has been involving Alyssa Romanine has been thoroughly investigated by Gilbert thoroughly investigated by Gilbert thoroughly investigated by Gilbert detectives. While the Maricopa County detectives. While the Maricopa County detectives. While the Maricopa County Medical Examiner determined the cause of Medical Examiner determined the cause of Medical Examiner determined the cause of death as undetermined, investigators death as undetermined, investigators death as undetermined, investigators have exhausted all viable leads and have exhausted all viable leads and have exhausted all viable leads and available evidence at this time. This available evidence at this time. This available evidence at this time. This case has not been forgotten. This case case has not been forgotten. This case case has not been forgotten. This case has remained under periodic review since has remained under periodic review since has remained under periodic review since its initial closure and is currently its initial closure and is currently its initial closure and is currently assigned to a detective for additional assigned to a detective for additional assigned to a detective for additional review and may be reactivated if new review and may be reactivated if new review and may be reactivated if new information becomes available. Gilbert information becomes available. Gilbert information becomes available. Gilbert PD also continues to monitor PD also continues to monitor PD also continues to monitor advancements in forensic technology that advancements in forensic technology that advancements in forensic technology that may assist in case evaluation. There you may assist in case evaluation. There you may assist in case evaluation. There you have it.

have it. have it. >> If they're still monitoring forensic >> If they're still monitoring forensic >> If they're still monitoring forensic advancements, advancements, advancements, that should mean they have things to that should mean they have things to that should mean they have things to test, right? test, right? test, right? >> I I maybe I mean, we know all the stuff >> I I maybe I mean, we know all the stuff >> I I maybe I mean, we know all the stuff from Mesa's gone, from Mesa's gone, from Mesa's gone, >> but the one thing that I keep coming >> but the one thing that I keep coming >> but the one thing that I keep coming back to are the latex gloves they found. back to are the latex gloves they found. back to are the latex gloves they found. Like, they found a full one and they Like, they found a full one and they Like, they found a full one and they found a piece of one. I can see that found a piece of one. I can see that found a piece of one. I can see that they were both tested back in 2016. The they were both tested back in 2016. The they were both tested back in 2016. The results though are pretty redacted. But results though are pretty redacted. But results though are pretty redacted. But all I can read is that the full latex all I can read is that the full latex all I can read is that the full latex glove had male DNA present. They also glove had male DNA present. They also glove had male DNA present. They also seemingly found male DNA on there was seemingly found male DNA on there was seemingly found male DNA on there was this like black phone case that they this like black phone case that they this like black phone case that they found too, but conclusions and like found too, but conclusions and like found too, but conclusions and like other like testing results, whatever are other like testing results, whatever are other like testing results, whatever are redacted as well. redacted as well. redacted as well. >> I feel like you would have told me this, >> I feel like you would have told me this, >> I feel like you would have told me this, but like do we know who that DNA belongs but like do we know who that DNA belongs but like do we know who that DNA belongs to? to? to? >> We do not. I can't even tell if anyone >> We do not. I can't even tell if anyone >> We do not. I can't even tell if anyone that we've mentioned in these episodes that we've mentioned in these episodes that we've mentioned in these episodes has been tested against it or did they has been tested against it or did they has been tested against it or did they get a good enough profile to put into get a good enough profile to put into get a good enough profile to put into COD, COD, COD, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I mean, as we know, there is a lot that >> I mean, as we know, there is a lot that >> I mean, as we know, there is a lot that is redacted in the file, but the reports is redacted in the file, but the reports is redacted in the file, but the reports start really trailing off after 2019. In start really trailing off after 2019. In start really trailing off after 2019. In 2020, I know the PD renewed search 2020, I know the PD renewed search 2020, I know the PD renewed search efforts for Alyssa's missing belongings efforts for Alyssa's missing belongings efforts for Alyssa's missing belongings in the riparian, which were in the riparian, which were in the riparian, which were unsuccessful, and they sent a sample of unsuccessful, and they sent a sample of unsuccessful, and they sent a sample of Alyssa's liver tissue collected in 2016 Alyssa's liver tissue collected in 2016 Alyssa's liver tissue collected in 2016 to a private lab for expanded to a private lab for expanded to a private lab for expanded post-mortem forensic examination.

post-mortem forensic examination. post-mortem forensic examination. >> Okay. What were they looking for? >> Okay. What were they looking for? >> Okay. What were they looking for? >> It said that they were just doing like a >> It said that they were just doing like a >> It said that they were just doing like a broader talk screen. So, broader talk screen. So, broader talk screen. So, >> Okay. But didn't they already do a talk >> Okay. But didn't they already do a talk >> Okay. But didn't they already do a talk screen? screen? screen? >> They did a talk screen. I don't know if >> They did a talk screen. I don't know if >> They did a talk screen. I don't know if there was something specific they were there was something specific they were there was something specific they were looking for. I don't know if they found looking for. I don't know if they found looking for. I don't know if they found anything because there are no results anything because there are no results anything because there are no results mentioned in the file. I don't know if mentioned in the file. I don't know if mentioned in the file. I don't know if this is part of like them being like is this is part of like them being like is this is part of like them being like is there a reason, you know, what the there a reason, you know, what the there a reason, you know, what the family keeps telling us is like it feels family keeps telling us is like it feels family keeps telling us is like it feels like they're looking for like she did like they're looking for like she did like they're looking for like she did this, right? Like even though they're this, right? Like even though they're this, right? Like even though they're calling it foul play, they like they've calling it foul play, they like they've calling it foul play, they like they've always had this like impression always had this like impression always had this like impression >> that kind of this kind of fits into >> that kind of this kind of fits into >> that kind of this kind of fits into that. that. that. >> It's just like this undercurrent in the >> It's just like this undercurrent in the >> It's just like this undercurrent in the whole case. Now, I know in 2021 there whole case. Now, I know in 2021 there whole case. Now, I know in 2021 there was this like moment where they was this like moment where they was this like moment where they interviewed a wildlife photographer who interviewed a wildlife photographer who interviewed a wildlife photographer who frequented the riparian, but she turned frequented the riparian, but she turned frequented the riparian, but she turned out to have no relevant information. And out to have no relevant information. And out to have no relevant information. And then in 2022, the case was documented as then in 2022, the case was documented as then in 2022, the case was documented as being under a formal FBI cold case being under a formal FBI cold case being under a formal FBI cold case review. But the only reason we know that review. But the only reason we know that review. But the only reason we know that is from a singular status line in the is from a singular status line in the is from a singular status line in the file with no additional context, no file with no additional context, no file with no additional context, no followup. Alyssa's family wasn't even followup. Alyssa's family wasn't even followup. Alyssa's family wasn't even aware of the FBI review until our aware of the FBI review until our aware of the FBI review until our reporter told them. But what's even reporter told them. But what's even reporter told them. But what's even stranger is that when asked, the Gilbert stranger is that when asked, the Gilbert stranger is that when asked, the Gilbert PD representative told us that PD representative told us that PD representative told us that regardless of what the file says, the regardless of what the file says, the regardless of what the file says, the case actually hasn't been sent to the case actually hasn't been sent to the case actually hasn't been sent to the FBI.

FBI. FBI. >> So, the line in the file is a lie. The >> So, the line in the file is a lie. The >> So, the line in the file is a lie. The rep said that his guess is that there rep said that his guess is that there rep said that his guess is that there was maybe just like a discussion between was maybe just like a discussion between was maybe just like a discussion between the detectives at the time, but like the detectives at the time, but like the detectives at the time, but like whatever they were discussing about whatever they were discussing about whatever they were discussing about sending it to it just like never came to sending it to it just like never came to sending it to it just like never came to fruition, but it literally says like in fruition, but it literally says like in fruition, but it literally says like in the file, quote, "Currently under FBI the file, quote, "Currently under FBI the file, quote, "Currently under FBI cold case review," end quote. So, cold case review," end quote. So, cold case review," end quote. So, >> right, not like we're thinking about >> right, not like we're thinking about >> right, not like we're thinking about sending this sending this sending this >> maybe having a I don't know. I really >> maybe having a I don't know. I really >> maybe having a I don't know. I really don't know. don't know. don't know. >> Which makes me like distrust everything >> Which makes me like distrust everything >> Which makes me like distrust everything else in the file. Well, while we're on else in the file. Well, while we're on else in the file. Well, while we're on the topic of trust, do you remember from the topic of trust, do you remember from the topic of trust, do you remember from our past Gilbert, Arizona episodes, so our past Gilbert, Arizona episodes, so our past Gilbert, Arizona episodes, so the Arizona Attorney General's office the Arizona Attorney General's office the Arizona Attorney General's office was looking into allegations about was looking into allegations about was looking into allegations about Gilbert PD destroying police records, Gilbert PD destroying police records, Gilbert PD destroying police records, right? right? right? >> Well, just a few days before this >> Well, just a few days before this >> Well, just a few days before this recording, I haven't told you this yet. recording, I haven't told you this yet. recording, I haven't told you this yet. They put out a statement saying that They put out a statement saying that They put out a statement saying that their review found that the files in their review found that the files in their review found that the files in question were deleted as a result of question were deleted as a result of question were deleted as a result of what do you know an administrative what do you know an administrative what do you know an administrative error.

error. error. >> You know, it's always that >> You know, it's always that >> You know, it's always that >> there's so many errors and thus there is >> there's so many errors and thus there is >> there's so many errors and thus there is no evidence supporting the likelihood of no evidence supporting the likelihood of no evidence supporting the likelihood of a successful prosecution. So no criminal a successful prosecution. So no criminal a successful prosecution. So no criminal charges will be filed. Of course, charges will be filed. Of course, charges will be filed. Of course, >> we have heard from the people in Gilbert >> we have heard from the people in Gilbert >> we have heard from the people in Gilbert loud and clear. The status quo ain't loud and clear. The status quo ain't loud and clear. The status quo ain't working. Something's got to give. The working. Something's got to give. The working. Something's got to give. The people of Gilbert want more from their people of Gilbert want more from their people of Gilbert want more from their public servants. Also, like if there is public servants. Also, like if there is public servants. Also, like if there is like no repercussions for like any like no repercussions for like any like no repercussions for like any heirs, I've said this before, like every heirs, I've said this before, like every heirs, I've said this before, like every other like job and profession. I feel other like job and profession. I feel other like job and profession. I feel like when you have people's lives in like when you have people's lives in like when you have people's lives in your hand, like there's a standard. say your hand, like there's a standard. say your hand, like there's a standard. say even if you don't like there are still even if you don't like there are still even if you don't like there are still like expectations and things that you're like expectations and things that you're like expectations and things that you're responsible for to do well. responsible for to do well. responsible for to do well. >> You can do whatever you want. You can >> You can do whatever you want. You can >> You can do whatever you want. You can just apparently you can do whatever you just apparently you can do whatever you just apparently you can do whatever you want and like as long as you like check want and like as long as you like check want and like as long as you like check a box and say you're trying and like a box and say you're trying and like a box and say you're trying and like oopsie it doesn't matter. According to oopsie it doesn't matter. According to oopsie it doesn't matter. According to Alyssa's sister Chelsea, the last time Alyssa's sister Chelsea, the last time Alyssa's sister Chelsea, the last time investigators spoke to her mom was in investigators spoke to her mom was in investigators spoke to her mom was in 2019.

2019. 2019. And from what I can see in the police And from what I can see in the police And from what I can see in the police report, it seems like that conversation report, it seems like that conversation report, it seems like that conversation was to inform her that Alyssa's case was to inform her that Alyssa's case was to inform her that Alyssa's case would be reassigned to a new detective. would be reassigned to a new detective. would be reassigned to a new detective. So, they apparently weren't informed So, they apparently weren't informed So, they apparently weren't informed that in 2020 the case got reassigned that in 2020 the case got reassigned that in 2020 the case got reassigned again. After this long, the family again. After this long, the family again. After this long, the family deserves more answers than what they're deserves more answers than what they're deserves more answers than what they're getting. getting. getting. >> What does the full autopsy report say? >> What does the full autopsy report say? >> What does the full autopsy report say? What has or has not been tested? And What has or has not been tested? And What has or has not been tested? And after they learn everything that has after they learn everything that has after they learn everything that has been done, the question then is what been done, the question then is what been done, the question then is what else can be else can be else can be >> right, >> right, >> right, >> police should continue to push on >> police should continue to push on >> police should continue to push on Louise. I think it would be worthwhile Louise. I think it would be worthwhile Louise. I think it would be worthwhile for them to find this Sammy guy. And for them to find this Sammy guy. And for them to find this Sammy guy. And it's worth looking into any members of it's worth looking into any members of it's worth looking into any members of the last reformation movement that the last reformation movement that the last reformation movement that Alyssa might have had contact with. It's Alyssa might have had contact with. It's Alyssa might have had contact with. It's worth finding out who that number was worth finding out who that number was worth finding out who that number was that she was in communication with. And that she was in communication with. And that she was in communication with. And these are only the leads that I was able these are only the leads that I was able these are only the leads that I was able to identify or connect from the file, to identify or connect from the file, to identify or connect from the file, >> the heavily redacted file.

>> the heavily redacted file. >> the heavily redacted file. >> There are other possibilities out there, >> There are other possibilities out there, >> There are other possibilities out there, ones that the family even suggested to ones that the family even suggested to ones that the family even suggested to police early on, like one of Alyssa's police early on, like one of Alyssa's police early on, like one of Alyssa's ex-boyfriends, who, according to ex-boyfriends, who, according to ex-boyfriends, who, according to Michelle, never got over Alyssa. Michelle, never got over Alyssa. Michelle, never got over Alyssa. Michelle said they split years before Michelle said they split years before Michelle said they split years before her death, and he knew that she had her death, and he knew that she had her death, and he knew that she had moved on, but he was still quote moved on, but he was still quote moved on, but he was still quote obsessed with her. he was still reaching obsessed with her. he was still reaching obsessed with her. he was still reaching out to her and trying to get her back or out to her and trying to get her back or out to her and trying to get her back or trying to get back in her life, I should trying to get back in her life, I should trying to get back in her life, I should say. And not only that, but Michelle say. And not only that, but Michelle say. And not only that, but Michelle says that he was abusive to Alyssa while says that he was abusive to Alyssa while says that he was abusive to Alyssa while they were together. When we asked they were together. When we asked they were together. When we asked Chelsea about him, she said that she has Chelsea about him, she said that she has Chelsea about him, she said that she has a vivid memory of being like 12 or 13 a vivid memory of being like 12 or 13 a vivid memory of being like 12 or 13 and overhearing a phone call Alyssa made and overhearing a phone call Alyssa made and overhearing a phone call Alyssa made to her parents house where she was to her parents house where she was to her parents house where she was screaming that she needed her dad's help screaming that she needed her dad's help screaming that she needed her dad's help because this man had severely beaten because this man had severely beaten because this man had severely beaten her. Michelle told us his name, but that her. Michelle told us his name, but that her. Michelle told us his name, but that name never comes up in the police file. name never comes up in the police file. name never comes up in the police file. Even though Michelle said that she and Even though Michelle said that she and Even though Michelle said that she and her mom specifically told investigators her mom specifically told investigators her mom specifically told investigators they should interview this guy. It also they should interview this guy. It also they should interview this guy. It also happens that shortly after Alyssa's happens that shortly after Alyssa's happens that shortly after Alyssa's death, according to Chelsea, this same death, according to Chelsea, this same death, according to Chelsea, this same ex-boyfriend started seeing one of ex-boyfriend started seeing one of ex-boyfriend started seeing one of Alyssa's little sisters. What? Mhm. And Alyssa's little sisters. What? Mhm. And Alyssa's little sisters. What? Mhm. And interestingly, that sister said that at interestingly, that sister said that at interestingly, that sister said that at his home, this guy had something stuck his home, this guy had something stuck his home, this guy had something stuck to his fridge that said Braden killed to his fridge that said Braden killed to his fridge that said Braden killed Alyssa. Why? He told Alyssa's little Alyssa. Why? He told Alyssa's little Alyssa. Why? He told Alyssa's little sister it was because he knew Braden did sister it was because he knew Braden did sister it was because he knew Braden did it. Now, we reached out to Braden for it. Now, we reached out to Braden for it. Now, we reached out to Braden for comment, but as of this recording, we

comment, but as of this recording, we comment, but as of this recording, we have not heard back. According to have not heard back. According to have not heard back. According to Chelsea, this ex-boyfriend passed away Chelsea, this ex-boyfriend passed away Chelsea, this ex-boyfriend passed away just last year. But as far as anyone just last year. But as far as anyone just last year. But as far as anyone knows, he was never questioned about knows, he was never questioned about knows, he was never questioned about Alyssa's death. And this is just one Alyssa's death. And this is just one Alyssa's death. And this is just one more thing contributing to the Roines more thing contributing to the Roines more thing contributing to the Roines family's lack of trust in the family's lack of trust in the family's lack of trust in the investigation. Their biggest frustration investigation. Their biggest frustration investigation. Their biggest frustration from the jump was the lack of from the jump was the lack of from the jump was the lack of communication from Gilbert PD. Chelsea communication from Gilbert PD. Chelsea communication from Gilbert PD. Chelsea told us the onus fell on her family to told us the onus fell on her family to told us the onus fell on her family to reach out for information and eventually reach out for information and eventually reach out for information and eventually her mom just stopped calling because she her mom just stopped calling because she her mom just stopped calling because she didn't have the energy to be told again didn't have the energy to be told again didn't have the energy to be told again and again and again that there was just and again and again that there was just and again and again that there was just nothing new to report which like listen nothing new to report which like listen nothing new to report which like listen I get not sharing details with the I get not sharing details with the I get not sharing details with the public that like you know could public that like you know could public that like you know could jeopardize the investigation but I mean jeopardize the investigation but I mean jeopardize the investigation but I mean I think the family has the right to I think the family has the right to I think the family has the right to know. I know. But like not only like know. I know. But like not only like know. I know. But like not only like what's wild to me is that like it's not what's wild to me is that like it's not what's wild to me is that like it's not even like they like weren't telling them even like they like weren't telling them even like they like weren't telling them like just some things. Like pretty much like just some things. Like pretty much like just some things. Like pretty much everything that I've told you today, everything that I've told you today, everything that I've told you today, Chelsea said that her family had to Chelsea said that her family had to Chelsea said that her family had to piece together on their own. Like they piece together on their own. Like they piece together on their own. Like they were sharing nothing.

were sharing nothing. were sharing nothing. >> In 2018, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark >> In 2018, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark >> In 2018, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark Marino was at least willing to hint at Marino was at least willing to hint at Marino was at least willing to hint at the possibility of foul play publicly. the possibility of foul play publicly. the possibility of foul play publicly. basically saying that they don't want to basically saying that they don't want to basically saying that they don't want to release anything because they don't want release anything because they don't want release anything because they don't want to jeopardize the case, but also there to jeopardize the case, but also there to jeopardize the case, but also there is no threat to the public, but also is no threat to the public, but also is no threat to the public, but also there might be they don't know they're there might be they don't know they're there might be they don't know they're still working on it. Even in 2019, when still working on it. Even in 2019, when still working on it. Even in 2019, when Gilbert PD got a new legal advisor and Gilbert PD got a new legal advisor and Gilbert PD got a new legal advisor and finally decided to release a highly finally decided to release a highly finally decided to release a highly redacted version of Alyssa's redacted version of Alyssa's redacted version of Alyssa's investigative file for the first time, investigative file for the first time, investigative file for the first time, the sergeant was just as wishy-washy. He the sergeant was just as wishy-washy. He the sergeant was just as wishy-washy. He said Alyssa's was the most unique case said Alyssa's was the most unique case said Alyssa's was the most unique case he'd seen. And even though it was he'd seen. And even though it was he'd seen. And even though it was undetermined, they were working it as a undetermined, they were working it as a undetermined, they were working it as a homicide, but also quote, "We don't have homicide, but also quote, "We don't have homicide, but also quote, "We don't have clear-cut evidence to show that someone clear-cut evidence to show that someone clear-cut evidence to show that someone else is responsible for her death. We else is responsible for her death. We else is responsible for her death. We don't have clear-cut evidence to show don't have clear-cut evidence to show don't have clear-cut evidence to show this was an accidental death." End this was an accidental death." End this was an accidental death." End quote. quote. quote. >> Okay. Tell me how on earth this was an >> Okay. Tell me how on earth this was an >> Okay. Tell me how on earth this was an accidental death. He just says, "At this accidental death. He just says, "At this accidental death. He just says, "At this point, we don't have a predominant point, we don't have a predominant point, we don't have a predominant theory." There was a little bit more to theory." There was a little bit more to theory." There was a little bit more to the statement that they gave us, the statement that they gave us, the statement that they gave us, and I'll have you read what else they and I'll have you read what else they and I'll have you read what else they said.

Quote, "We recognize the profound loss Quote, "We recognize the profound loss Alyssa's family and loved ones endure, Alyssa's family and loved ones endure, Alyssa's family and loved ones endure, and our thoughts remain with them. We and our thoughts remain with them. We and our thoughts remain with them. We remain available to the family should remain available to the family should remain available to the family should they have questions or wish to discuss they have questions or wish to discuss they have questions or wish to discuss the case further. the case further. the case further. The thing is Chelsea says that many of The thing is Chelsea says that many of The thing is Chelsea says that many of her family members have all but given up her family members have all but given up her family members have all but given up hope that they'll get answers in hope that they'll get answers in hope that they'll get answers in Alyssa's death. In 2023, Alyssa's dad, Alyssa's death. In 2023, Alyssa's dad, Alyssa's death. In 2023, Alyssa's dad, Ed, told the Gilbert Sun news, quote, Ed, told the Gilbert Sun news, quote, Ed, told the Gilbert Sun news, quote, "They never told us if they have a "They never told us if they have a "They never told us if they have a suspect. It's all a big mystery. No more suspect. It's all a big mystery. No more suspect. It's all a big mystery. No more information made us think not much information made us think not much information made us think not much effort is going into it. Chelsea said effort is going into it. Chelsea said effort is going into it. Chelsea said she is still desperate for closure and she is still desperate for closure and she is still desperate for closure and she believes her family has grieved in she believes her family has grieved in she believes her family has grieved in silence for too long. So for her sake silence for too long. So for her sake silence for too long. So for her sake and the entire Roine family, it's time and the entire Roine family, it's time and the entire Roine family, it's time to blow this case wide open. Time to to blow this case wide open. Time to to blow this case wide open. Time to change the narrative about the death of change the narrative about the death of change the narrative about the death of Alyssa Romanine Olsen and finally get Alyssa Romanine Olsen and finally get Alyssa Romanine Olsen and finally get answers about what happened to her in answers about what happened to her in answers about what happened to her in that park in 2016. So, if you know that park in 2016. So, if you know that park in 2016. So, if you know anything about the death of Alyssa Roine anything about the death of Alyssa Roine anything about the death of Alyssa Roine at the Riparian Preserve in Gilbert, at the Riparian Preserve in Gilbert, at the Riparian Preserve in Gilbert, Arizona, you can contact the Gilbert Arizona, you can contact the Gilbert Arizona, you can contact the Gilbert Police Department by submitting a tip at Police Department by submitting a tip at Police Department by submitting a tip at gilbertaz.gov/submit a tip. Make sure it's in reference to a tip. Make sure it's in reference to case number 16-9745.

case number 16-9745. case number 16-9745. And as always, you can reach out to us And as always, you can reach out to us And as always, you can reach out to us by emailing tips at audiochuck.com. Crime Junkie is an audiochuck Crime Junkie is an audiochuck production. production. production. I think Chuck would approve.