When spellcasters couldn’t make her stay, he made her disappear

A word of warning, this podcast explores A word of warning, this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and graphic and disturbing stories and graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language. It includes some strong language. It includes some strong language. It therefore may not be suitable for our therefore may not be suitable for our therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may young listeners or other folks who may young listeners or other folks who may find it disturbing. [music] find it disturbing. [music] find it disturbing. [music] Hello and welcome to True Crime News, Hello and welcome to True Crime News, Hello and welcome to True Crime News, the podcast covering high-profile and the podcast covering high-profile and the podcast covering high-profile and under the radar cases from across the under the radar cases from across the under the radar cases from across the country every week. I'm your host, Anna country every week. I'm your host, Anna country every week. I'm your host, Anna Garcia. Our case this week, when nothing Garcia. Our case this week, when nothing Garcia. Our case this week, when nothing else works, try paying someone to put a else works, try paying someone to put a else works, try paying someone to put a spell on your wife so she won't leave spell on your wife so she won't leave spell on your wife so she won't leave you. The spells didn't work and the you. The spells didn't work and the you. The spells didn't work and the wife's body was never found, meaning she wife's body was never found, meaning she wife's body was never found, meaning she went missing and her husband has just went missing and her husband has just went missing and her husband has just been convicted of firstdegree murder. been convicted of firstdegree murder. been convicted of firstdegree murder. But a guilty verdict in this murder case But a guilty verdict in this murder case But a guilty verdict in this murder case of a missing mom is not enough. Her of a missing mom is not enough. Her of a missing mom is not enough. Her family says that there can't be justice family says that there can't be justice family says that there can't be justice until they locate their loved one. 5 until they locate their loved one. 5 until they locate their loved one. 5 years ago, the family went to the media years ago, the family went to the media years ago, the family went to the media when the mom went missing, and now they when the mom went missing, and now they when the mom went missing, and now they need your help to locate her remains so need your help to locate her remains so need your help to locate her remains so she can be laid to rest. We are she can be laid to rest. We are she can be laid to rest. We are recording this on Friday, July 17th of recording this on Friday, July 17th of recording this on Friday, July 17th of 2026. Our guest today is Nema Romani, a 2026. Our guest today is Nema Romani, a 2026. Our guest today is Nema Romani, a former federal prosecutor, president, former federal prosecutor, president, former federal prosecutor, president, and co-founder of the West Coast Trial and co-founder of the West Coast Trial and co-founder of the West Coast Trial Lawyers, a legal analyst that you can Lawyers, a legal analyst that you can Lawyers, a legal analyst that you can see on multiple media outlets. Nema, it see on multiple media outlets. Nema, it see on multiple media outlets. Nema, it is such a pleasure to have you on the is such a pleasure to have you on the is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Welcome, podcast. Welcome, podcast. Welcome, >> Anna. So excited to be on with you. What >> Anna. So excited to be on with you. What >> Anna. So excited to be on with you. What a case.

a case. a case. >> What a case indeed. Now, this is a case >> What a case indeed. Now, this is a case >> What a case indeed. Now, this is a case that we really have heard of for the that we really have heard of for the that we really have heard of for the last 5 years. It made massive headlines, last 5 years. It made massive headlines, last 5 years. It made massive headlines, not only in California, but across the not only in California, but across the not only in California, but across the country. When you have a mother of three country. When you have a mother of three country. When you have a mother of three who's young, who's missing, and the last who's young, who's missing, and the last who's young, who's missing, and the last time she was seen was going into her time she was seen was going into her time she was seen was going into her house, and then she's never seen coming house, and then she's never seen coming house, and then she's never seen coming out, you know, you got to wonder, well, out, you know, you got to wonder, well, out, you know, you got to wonder, well, where where did she go? where where did she go? where where did she go? >> No question. And I remember this case >> No question. And I remember this case >> No question. And I remember this case distinctively. It was during the distinctively. It was during the distinctively. It was during the pandemic. We were all home and you know, pandemic. We were all home and you know, pandemic. We were all home and you know, I'm sitting here in Los Angeles, but I I'm sitting here in Los Angeles, but I I'm sitting here in Los Angeles, but I was a prosecutor for many years in San was a prosecutor for many years in San was a prosecutor for many years in San Diego and this was a Chulo Vista mom who Diego and this was a Chulo Vista mom who Diego and this was a Chulo Vista mom who was missing. And then slowly, you know, was missing. And then slowly, you know, was missing. And then slowly, you know, more evidence came out and the family more evidence came out and the family more evidence came out and the family members started talking to the media and members started talking to the media and members started talking to the media and then it became pretty clear that, you then it became pretty clear that, you then it became pretty clear that, you know, we may be dealing with foul play. know, we may be dealing with foul play. know, we may be dealing with foul play. And the question was, you know, what's And the question was, you know, what's And the question was, you know, what's law enforcement doing? Where is she? law enforcement doing? Where is she? law enforcement doing? Where is she? Where is the body? And ultimately, as Where is the body? And ultimately, as Where is the body? And ultimately, as you said, Anna, we never found the body.

you said, Anna, we never found the body. you said, Anna, we never found the body. But that doesn't mean that we didn't get But that doesn't mean that we didn't get But that doesn't mean that we didn't get justice in this case, justice in this case, justice in this case, >> right? And from the family's >> right? And from the family's >> right? And from the family's perspective, of course, you know, perspective, of course, you know, perspective, of course, you know, justice is always imperfect. But the justice is always imperfect. But the justice is always imperfect. But the final part for them will be to find final part for them will be to find final part for them will be to find their Maya. Like until they find her, their Maya. Like until they find her, their Maya. Like until they find her, you know, they they cannot rest either. you know, they they cannot rest either. you know, they they cannot rest either. And and I really I really appreciate And and I really I really appreciate And and I really I really appreciate this family tremendously because not this family tremendously because not this family tremendously because not only is it obvious how close they all only is it obvious how close they all only is it obvious how close they all are and how much they love each other, are and how much they love each other, are and how much they love each other, they really were faced with something. they really were faced with something. they really were faced with something. No family's ever prepared for someone to No family's ever prepared for someone to No family's ever prepared for someone to go missing. And then all of a sudden you go missing. And then all of a sudden you go missing. And then all of a sudden you find yourself, you know, negotiating find yourself, you know, negotiating find yourself, you know, negotiating with um reporters and the media and with um reporters and the media and with um reporters and the media and press conferences and the police and press conferences and the police and press conferences and the police and you're not an expert in any of these you're not an expert in any of these you're not an expert in any of these things. But the one thing you do know is things. But the one thing you do know is things. But the one thing you do know is that you're never going to get justice that you're never going to get justice that you're never going to get justice or find your loved one unless you or find your loved one unless you or find your loved one unless you scream, you know, and you are constantly scream, you know, and you are constantly scream, you know, and you are constantly pushing this to the forefront. And they pushing this to the forefront. And they pushing this to the forefront. And they really kept the pressure up. I I don't really kept the pressure up. I I don't really kept the pressure up. I I don't I'm not This isn't a knock against law I'm not This isn't a knock against law I'm not This isn't a knock against law enforcement by any means. But I just enforcement by any means. But I just enforcement by any means. But I just don't know if things would have don't know if things would have don't know if things would have progressed as quickly as they did, even progressed as quickly as they did, even progressed as quickly as they did, even though it seems like forever, had the though it seems like forever, had the though it seems like forever, had the family not pushed so hard.

family not pushed so hard. family not pushed so hard. >> I think that's really important, Anna. >> I think that's really important, Anna. >> I think that's really important, Anna. You raised two important points. The You raised two important points. The You raised two important points. The first is the public pressure campaign. first is the public pressure campaign. first is the public pressure campaign. And look, and we've seen it time and And look, and we've seen it time and And look, and we've seen it time and time again how, you know, something like time again how, you know, something like time again how, you know, something like Dline or 48 hours or a documentary can Dline or 48 hours or a documentary can Dline or 48 hours or a documentary can really change the course of a legal really change the course of a legal really change the course of a legal case, right? Um, you know, Britney case, right? Um, you know, Britney case, right? Um, you know, Britney Spears, R. Kelly, right? I mean, there's Spears, R. Kelly, right? I mean, there's Spears, R. Kelly, right? I mean, there's so many cases. The Menendez brothers, so many cases. The Menendez brothers, so many cases. The Menendez brothers, right? So the political reality is, and right? So the political reality is, and right? So the political reality is, and look, I'm not saying the San Diego DA look, I'm not saying the San Diego DA look, I'm not saying the San Diego DA did anything wrong, but every prosecutor did anything wrong, but every prosecutor did anything wrong, but every prosecutor in this country is elected or appointed in this country is elected or appointed in this country is elected or appointed by someone who is. So that pressure can by someone who is. So that pressure can by someone who is. So that pressure can make a big difference when there's a mom make a big difference when there's a mom make a big difference when there's a mom missing and law enforcement haven't missing and law enforcement haven't missing and law enforcement haven't seemingly done much. You know, there's seemingly done much. You know, there's seemingly done much. You know, there's an outcry. I mean, it happened here in an outcry. I mean, it happened here in an outcry. I mean, it happened here in LA in the David case, right? Celeste LA in the David case, right? Celeste LA in the David case, right? Celeste Rivas uh was missing for some period of Rivas uh was missing for some period of Rivas uh was missing for some period of time. time she was found in the frunk of time. time she was found in the frunk of time. time she was found in the frunk of his Tesla allegedly, right? And there his Tesla allegedly, right? And there his Tesla allegedly, right? And there was a real sort of outcry here in LA. was a real sort of outcry here in LA. was a real sort of outcry here in LA. Like there's a there's a young girl Like there's a there's a young girl Like there's a there's a young girl missing. So you're right. So I think the missing. So you're right. So I think the missing. So you're right. So I think the public pressure does make a difference public pressure does make a difference public pressure does make a difference and it's important. And the other thing and it's important. And the other thing and it's important. And the other thing that you mentioned is sort of the that you mentioned is sort of the that you mentioned is sort of the negotiation. I want to talk about negotiation. I want to talk about negotiation. I want to talk about another type of negotiation. Now that another type of negotiation. Now that another type of negotiation. Now that he's been convicted, the question always he's been convicted, the question always he's been convicted, the question always is, do you and he hasn't been sentenced, is, do you and he hasn't been sentenced, is, do you and he hasn't been sentenced, right?

right? right? >> Correct. Do you cut [clears throat] some >> Correct. Do you cut [clears throat] some >> Correct. Do you cut [clears throat] some sort of deal or a recommendation at sort of deal or a recommendation at sort of deal or a recommendation at sentencing in exchange for him telling sentencing in exchange for him telling sentencing in exchange for him telling the family where the body is? That's the family where the body is? That's the family where the body is? That's always a real tough question um that always a real tough question um that always a real tough question um that prosecutors and victims have to really prosecutors and victims have to really prosecutors and victims have to really grapple with. grapple with. grapple with. >> Yes. And I am always appreciative of the >> Yes. And I am always appreciative of the >> Yes. And I am always appreciative of the prosecutors uh the district attorneys prosecutors uh the district attorneys prosecutors uh the district attorneys who who who really listen to what the families want. really listen to what the families want. really listen to what the families want. And I've seen both just like you have. And I've seen both just like you have. And I've seen both just like you have. I've seen families that they're like, I've seen families that they're like, I've seen families that they're like, "No, you're rotting in hell. I'm not "No, you're rotting in hell. I'm not "No, you're rotting in hell. I'm not negotiating with the devil." And then negotiating with the devil." And then negotiating with the devil." And then you have other families who are like, "I you have other families who are like, "I you have other families who are like, "I just want to find him or her. Just tell just want to find him or her. Just tell just want to find him or her. Just tell me." And this case is very complicated me." And this case is very complicated me." And this case is very complicated because the the family was very very because the the family was very very because the the family was very very close with him, the husband, the in-law close with him, the husband, the in-law close with him, the husband, the in-law if you will. And for them it has been a if you will. And for them it has been a if you will. And for them it has been a lot of grief to process the possibility lot of grief to process the possibility lot of grief to process the possibility that someone whom you loved like a that someone whom you loved like a that someone whom you loved like a brother, a son, anything like that, an brother, a son, anything like that, an brother, a son, anything like that, an uncle could have done this to your blood uncle could have done this to your blood uncle could have done this to your blood relative.

relative. relative. So I I'm very much hoping that they So I I'm very much hoping that they So I I'm very much hoping that they continue to listen to the family. And I continue to listen to the family. And I continue to listen to the family. And I don't know. Look, it's not no matter don't know. Look, it's not no matter don't know. Look, it's not no matter what deal he gets, it's not like it's what deal he gets, it's not like it's what deal he gets, it's not like it's going to be a sweet deal. It's it's going to be a sweet deal. It's it's going to be a sweet deal. It's it's firstdegree murder. firstdegree murder. firstdegree murder. >> Yeah. you know, it's 25 for life, right? >> Yeah. you know, it's 25 for life, right? >> Yeah. you know, it's 25 for life, right? So, the question is, is he ever going to So, the question is, is he ever going to So, the question is, is he ever going to see the light of day? Is there a see the light of day? Is there a see the light of day? Is there a possibility of parole? Ultimately, of possibility of parole? Ultimately, of possibility of parole? Ultimately, of course, it's up to the judge, but I course, it's up to the judge, but I course, it's up to the judge, but I think the prosecution's recommendation think the prosecution's recommendation think the prosecution's recommendation goes a long way. And frankly, look, the goes a long way. And frankly, look, the goes a long way. And frankly, look, the defense post conviction cuz there's defense post conviction cuz there's defense post conviction cuz there's multiple possibilities here, right? multiple possibilities here, right? multiple possibilities here, right? There was first-degree murder like you There was first-degree murder like you There was first-degree murder like you mentioned, the most serious in Cal. mentioned, the most serious in Cal. mentioned, the most serious in Cal. Yeah, there was second degree, there was Yeah, there was second degree, there was Yeah, there was second degree, there was manslaughter, voluntary, involuntary could have landed on. Obviously, they could have landed on. Obviously, they returned a very quick uh in my opinion returned a very quick uh in my opinion returned a very quick uh in my opinion given the length of the case, given the length of the case, given the length of the case, first-degree murder conviction, the top first-degree murder conviction, the top first-degree murder conviction, the top count. So, the defense has lost a lot of count. So, the defense has lost a lot of count. So, the defense has lost a lot of leverage here. Um, obviously, they're leverage here. Um, obviously, they're leverage here. Um, obviously, they're going to take their chance on an appeal. going to take their chance on an appeal. going to take their chance on an appeal. Um, but again, I don't see any clear Um, but again, I don't see any clear Um, but again, I don't see any clear legal errors here that would reverse legal errors here that would reverse legal errors here that would reverse this conviction. It was pretty strong this conviction. It was pretty strong this conviction. It was pretty strong case, albeit a circumstantial one, case, albeit a circumstantial one, case, albeit a circumstantial one, because like you said, there's evidence because like you said, there's evidence because like you said, there's evidence of real jealousy. Uh there's obviously of real jealousy. Uh there's obviously of real jealousy. Uh there's obviously the potential for the devote div the potential for the devote div the potential for the devote div divorce. You have this motive. You have divorce. You have this motive. You have divorce. You have this motive. You have some uh inconsistent at best statements some uh inconsistent at best statements some uh inconsistent at best statements um outright lies. And then of course I um outright lies. And then of course I um outright lies. And then of course I think one thing jurors always hang their think one thing jurors always hang their think one thing jurors always hang their hat on in these types of cases can be hat on in these types of cases can be hat on in these types of cases can be Casey Anthony, it can be Scott Peterson, Casey Anthony, it can be Scott Peterson, Casey Anthony, it can be Scott Peterson, is well is this conduct consistent with is well is this conduct consistent with is well is this conduct consistent with someone who is looking for their missing

someone who is looking for their missing someone who is looking for their missing spouse or child, right? And the fact spouse or child, right? And the fact spouse or child, right? And the fact that he didn't participate in any of that he didn't participate in any of that he didn't participate in any of those searches, I think was very those searches, I think was very those searches, I think was very important. So, look, sometimes uh it important. So, look, sometimes uh it important. So, look, sometimes uh it takes defendants a while to come around takes defendants a while to come around takes defendants a while to come around uh and maybe the defense here might uh and maybe the defense here might uh and maybe the defense here might reach out to the prosecution and try to reach out to the prosecution and try to reach out to the prosecution and try to negotiate a deal like that. We'll see if negotiate a deal like that. We'll see if negotiate a deal like that. We'll see if the San Diego DA is receptive to that. I the San Diego DA is receptive to that. I the San Diego DA is receptive to that. I think a lot will depend on the victim's think a lot will depend on the victim's think a lot will depend on the victim's family. family. family. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, here are the >> Yeah, absolutely. So, here are the >> Yeah, absolutely. So, here are the details. The victim here is 39year-old details. The victim here is 39year-old details. The victim here is 39year-old Maya Millettee and the convicted killer Maya Millettee and the convicted killer Maya Millettee and the convicted killer is her husband, 44year-old Larry is her husband, 44year-old Larry is her husband, 44year-old Larry Millettee. So the jurors deliberated for Millettee. So the jurors deliberated for Millettee. So the jurors deliberated for one day and they found him guilty of one day and they found him guilty of one day and they found him guilty of first-degree murder even though police first-degree murder even though police first-degree murder even though police do not know how she was killed. They do not know how she was killed. They do not know how she was killed. They really don't know where she was killed. really don't know where she was killed. really don't know where she was killed. But again, we know she went into the But again, we know she went into the But again, we know she went into the house based on security cameras on house based on security cameras on house based on security cameras on January 7th of 2021 and was never seen January 7th of 2021 and was never seen January 7th of 2021 and was never seen coming out. So the theory is she was coming out. So the theory is she was coming out. So the theory is she was killed in the house and that he disposed killed in the house and that he disposed killed in the house and that he disposed of her body. And what's really creepy of her body. And what's really creepy of her body. And what's really creepy here is if you narrow it down to January here is if you narrow it down to January here is if you narrow it down to January 7th and then the next day and maybe 3 7th and then the next day and maybe 3 7th and then the next day and maybe 3 days total that we're operating on, days total that we're operating on, days total that we're operating on, the kids would have been home. There the kids would have been home. There the kids would have been home. There were three children in the home when all were three children in the home when all were three children in the home when all of this happened, which to me is so of this happened, which to me is so of this happened, which to me is so frightening.

frightening. frightening. >> It really is. And like you said, the >> It really is. And like you said, the >> It really is. And like you said, the kids were home. Uh the family members kids were home. Uh the family members kids were home. Uh the family members were concerned. They came to the home. were concerned. They came to the home. were concerned. They came to the home. Larry told them at some point that, you Larry told them at some point that, you Larry told them at some point that, you know, Maya's in a room um room's locked know, Maya's in a room um room's locked know, Maya's in a room um room's locked and then sort of ended up giving sort of and then sort of ended up giving sort of and then sort of ended up giving sort of different stories, right? Then she's at different stories, right? Then she's at different stories, right? Then she's at the beach. And ultimately, I think the the beach. And ultimately, I think the the beach. And ultimately, I think the prosecution's theory was that uh Larry prosecution's theory was that uh Larry prosecution's theory was that uh Larry obviously knew where the cameras were. obviously knew where the cameras were. obviously knew where the cameras were. He backed up his SUV in a way that He backed up his SUV in a way that He backed up his SUV in a way that it was outside of the view of those it was outside of the view of those it was outside of the view of those cameras. Um, you know, I think there was cameras. Um, you know, I think there was cameras. Um, you know, I think there was some evidence that maybe Maya was some evidence that maybe Maya was some evidence that maybe Maya was poisoned. I don't think we ever had poisoned. I don't think we ever had poisoned. I don't think we ever had necessarily a definitive answer there necessarily a definitive answer there necessarily a definitive answer there because obviously we don't have a body, because obviously we don't have a body, because obviously we don't have a body, right? But I think the defense really right? But I think the defense really right? But I think the defense really was up against it because of some of the was up against it because of some of the was up against it because of some of the things that you talked about the the things that you talked about the the things that you talked about the the witchcraft and the spells and all that witchcraft and the spells and all that witchcraft and the spells and all that and all that evidence, but ultimately and all that evidence, but ultimately and all that evidence, but ultimately and again I know it's the prosecution's and again I know it's the prosecution's and again I know it's the prosecution's burden. They have to prove the case burden. They have to prove the case burden. They have to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, but jurors beyond a reasonable doubt, but jurors beyond a reasonable doubt, but jurors are ordinary people. They want some are ordinary people. They want some are ordinary people. They want some reasonable alternate theory in this reasonable alternate theory in this reasonable alternate theory in this case. And the two the defense presented case. And the two the defense presented case. And the two the defense presented really didn't make a whole lot of sense.

really didn't make a whole lot of sense. really didn't make a whole lot of sense. One was that someone else managed to get One was that someone else managed to get One was that someone else managed to get into the house and kill her and then get into the house and kill her and then get into the house and kill her and then get her out of the house without, you know, her out of the house without, you know, her out of the house without, you know, any cameras, not just in the home, but any cameras, not just in the home, but any cameras, not just in the home, but in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> being anything, right? That didn't make >> being anything, right? That didn't make >> being anything, right? That didn't make a whole lot of sense. The other was that a whole lot of sense. The other was that a whole lot of sense. The other was that this was some type of gone girl this was some type of gone girl this was some type of gone girl situation where a loving mom was just situation where a loving mom was just situation where a loving mom was just going to take off and disappear again in going to take off and disappear again in going to take off and disappear again in a way where no one can find her. um a way where no one can find her. um a way where no one can find her. um >> disappeared without her vehicle, without >> disappeared without her vehicle, without >> disappeared without her vehicle, without any of her belongings, you know, and any of her belongings, you know, and any of her belongings, you know, and with a a birthday for one of her kids at with a a birthday for one of her kids at with a a birthday for one of her kids at around the same time. Parents don't just around the same time. Parents don't just around the same time. Parents don't just leave it around their kids' birthday. I leave it around their kids' birthday. I leave it around their kids' birthday. I mean, it's possible, sure, but that was mean, it's possible, sure, but that was mean, it's possible, sure, but that was so out of character for Maya. It's so out of character for Maya. It's so out of character for Maya. It's ludicrous. ludicrous. ludicrous. >> Absolutely. And here's someone that was >> Absolutely. And here's someone that was >> Absolutely. And here's someone that was a civilian employee of the Navy, you a civilian employee of the Navy, you a civilian employee of the Navy, you know, just consistent, has never shown know, just consistent, has never shown know, just consistent, has never shown any type of erratic behavior. It just any type of erratic behavior. It just any type of erratic behavior. It just made no sense. Look, is it possible? I made no sense. Look, is it possible? I made no sense. Look, is it possible? I mean, we saw I think Sher Pini, I mean, mean, we saw I think Sher Pini, I mean, mean, we saw I think Sher Pini, I mean, it certainly could happen. Um, but I it certainly could happen. Um, but I it certainly could happen. Um, but I think it just didn't make a whole lot of think it just didn't make a whole lot of think it just didn't make a whole lot of sense under these circumstances with sense under these circumstances with sense under these circumstances with really no evidence whatsoever to show really no evidence whatsoever to show really no evidence whatsoever to show anyone leaving the house that was alive.

anyone leaving the house that was alive. anyone leaving the house that was alive. I think the prosecution did a real good I think the prosecution did a real good I think the prosecution did a real good job showing that it was likely that, you job showing that it was likely that, you job showing that it was likely that, you know, something happened in the home and know, something happened in the home and know, something happened in the home and that Larry ended up driving out to the that Larry ended up driving out to the that Larry ended up driving out to the desert Glamus or some place like that desert Glamus or some place like that desert Glamus or some place like that somewhere near the Native American somewhere near the Native American somewhere near the Native American reservations and really disposed of this reservations and really disposed of this reservations and really disposed of this body even though it was never found. body even though it was never found. body even though it was never found. >> I know. I know. And even one of the >> I know. I know. And even one of the >> I know. I know. And even one of the jurors who was interviewed afterwards jurors who was interviewed afterwards jurors who was interviewed afterwards kept saying, "I I believe her bodies in kept saying, "I I believe her bodies in kept saying, "I I believe her bodies in the desert. I really believe that." And the desert. I really believe that." And the desert. I really believe that." And um it's always so interesting to me to um it's always so interesting to me to um it's always so interesting to me to hear from the jurors. I'm always so hear from the jurors. I'm always so hear from the jurors. I'm always so pleased when they speak because the one pleased when they speak because the one pleased when they speak because the one thing that we never have insight to is thing that we never have insight to is thing that we never have insight to is what's going on in that jury room. And what's going on in that jury room. And what's going on in that jury room. And I'm sure as a prosecutor for you, it was I'm sure as a prosecutor for you, it was I'm sure as a prosecutor for you, it was the same thing. It's like you really the same thing. It's like you really the same thing. It's like you really want to know everything going on in want to know everything going on in want to know everything going on in there and you'll only learn what's there and you'll only learn what's there and you'll only learn what's shared with you, but you'll never fully shared with you, but you'll never fully shared with you, but you'll never fully get it right. get it right. get it right. >> Oh yeah. I would love to be a juror. >> Oh yeah. I would love to be a juror. >> Oh yeah. I would love to be a juror. Obviously, it's very unlikely that Obviously, it's very unlikely that Obviously, it's very unlikely that anyone's going to choose me or really anyone's going to choose me or really anyone's going to choose me or really any attorney. any attorney. any attorney. >> Oh, I would choose you. >> Oh, I would choose you. >> Oh, I would choose you. >> Oh, thank you, Anna. You're the best.

>> Oh, thank you, Anna. You're the best. >> Oh, thank you, Anna. You're the best. Um, but yeah, you don't know. It's Um, but yeah, you don't know. It's Um, but yeah, you don't know. It's really a black box. So, you know, really a black box. So, you know, really a black box. So, you know, sometimes the jurors will stick around sometimes the jurors will stick around sometimes the jurors will stick around and talk to you. Often times they don't. and talk to you. Often times they don't. and talk to you. Often times they don't. And when they do, the insights that they And when they do, the insights that they And when they do, the insights that they give, I mean, it's so telling. You know, give, I mean, it's so telling. You know, give, I mean, it's so telling. You know, as a attorney, you think, "Wow, this is as a attorney, you think, "Wow, this is as a attorney, you think, "Wow, this is the most important evidence of the case, the most important evidence of the case, the most important evidence of the case, and this is what's going to win the day and this is what's going to win the day and this is what's going to win the day for us." And then they'll come back and for us." And then they'll come back and for us." And then they'll come back and say, "Well, no, we cared about these say, "Well, no, we cared about these say, "Well, no, we cared about these other things entirely, right?" Or you other things entirely, right?" Or you other things entirely, right?" Or you think a particular piece of evidence or think a particular piece of evidence or think a particular piece of evidence or a witness is going to be strong, and a witness is going to be strong, and a witness is going to be strong, and they don't necessarily agree. So, uh, they don't necessarily agree. So, uh, they don't necessarily agree. So, uh, it's it's certainly an art, not a it's it's certainly an art, not a it's it's certainly an art, not a science. And it's very fascinating when science. And it's very fascinating when science. And it's very fascinating when you get the opportunity to talk to the you get the opportunity to talk to the you get the opportunity to talk to the jurors. I certainly love it. In any jurors. I certainly love it. In any jurors. I certainly love it. In any case, whether they talk to me, obviously case, whether they talk to me, obviously case, whether they talk to me, obviously a very high-profile case like this, they a very high-profile case like this, they a very high-profile case like this, they talk to the media and they really talk to the media and they really talk to the media and they really explain explain explain not only how they got to where they did, not only how they got to where they did, not only how they got to where they did, but sometimes they'll even provide more but sometimes they'll even provide more but sometimes they'll even provide more insight. Like in this particular case, insight. Like in this particular case, insight. Like in this particular case, they said that they took an initial vote they said that they took an initial vote they said that they took an initial vote and it was pretty much overwhelming and and it was pretty much overwhelming and and it was pretty much overwhelming and they decided to just I think one juror they decided to just I think one juror they decided to just I think one juror wanted to sleep on it.

wanted to sleep on it. wanted to sleep on it. >> They wanted to sleep on it and see how >> They wanted to sleep on it and see how >> They wanted to sleep on it and see how they felt the next morning. I love that. they felt the next morning. I love that. they felt the next morning. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. >> I love it, too. But again, typically you >> I love it, too. But again, typically you >> I love it, too. But again, typically you don't know. You have no idea and you're don't know. You have no idea and you're don't know. You have no idea and you're just sort of on pins and needles as an just sort of on pins and needles as an just sort of on pins and needles as an attorney. Again, I think the prosecution attorney. Again, I think the prosecution attorney. Again, I think the prosecution a strong case. I think that they a strong case. I think that they a strong case. I think that they probably felt pretty good about it, probably felt pretty good about it, probably felt pretty good about it, especially quick verdict in a case like especially quick verdict in a case like especially quick verdict in a case like this usually is a state verdict. But, this usually is a state verdict. But, this usually is a state verdict. But, [snorts] um, the fact that you had the [snorts] um, the fact that you had the [snorts] um, the fact that you had the jurors talk to the media, provide this jurors talk to the media, provide this jurors talk to the media, provide this information, I absolutely love that as a information, I absolutely love that as a information, I absolutely love that as a trial lawyer. trial lawyer. trial lawyer. >> So, let's get into a little bit of the >> So, let's get into a little bit of the >> So, let's get into a little bit of the background and then we'll get into the background and then we'll get into the background and then we'll get into the details of how things were revealed in details of how things were revealed in details of how things were revealed in real time. So Larry and Maya married in real time. So Larry and Maya married in real time. So Larry and Maya married in Honolulu in May of 2000, and they were Honolulu in May of 2000, and they were Honolulu in May of 2000, and they were still really kind of teens, very young still really kind of teens, very young still really kind of teens, very young adults when they were married. Maya was adults when they were married. Maya was adults when they were married. Maya was 19, Larry 18, and they were high school 19, Larry 18, and they were high school 19, Larry 18, and they were high school sweethearts. So they've been together a sweethearts. So they've been together a sweethearts. So they've been together a long time, 21 years, and they were long time, 21 years, and they were long time, 21 years, and they were raising three children together. They raising three children together. They raising three children together. They spent a lot of time with their extended spent a lot of time with their extended spent a lot of time with their extended families. Um, so, you know, everything families. Um, so, you know, everything families. Um, so, you know, everything seemed rather perfect, beautiful, young seemed rather perfect, beautiful, young seemed rather perfect, beautiful, young family. So, what could the motive be family. So, what could the motive be family. So, what could the motive be here if everything seems so perfect on here if everything seems so perfect on here if everything seems so perfect on the outside? And you know, according to the outside? And you know, according to the outside? And you know, according to prosecutors, prosecutors, prosecutors, Maya wanted out of the marriage because Maya wanted out of the marriage because Maya wanted out of the marriage because she claimed that Larry could be abusive.

she claimed that Larry could be abusive. she claimed that Larry could be abusive. And Maya was also having an affair with And Maya was also having an affair with And Maya was also having an affair with a coworker at the time of this. So, on a coworker at the time of this. So, on a coworker at the time of this. So, on the day she was killed, Maya had called the day she was killed, Maya had called the day she was killed, Maya had called a divorce lawyer to make an appointment, a divorce lawyer to make an appointment, a divorce lawyer to make an appointment, which of course she never made because which of course she never made because which of course she never made because she disappeared. And just to for you to she disappeared. And just to for you to she disappeared. And just to for you to understand, the family at the time, the understand, the family at the time, the understand, the family at the time, the kids, three of them at the time that kids, three of them at the time that kids, three of them at the time that this happened were 4, 9, and 11. It's this happened were 4, 9, and 11. It's this happened were 4, 9, and 11. It's really young. I mean, it's it's old really young. I mean, it's it's old really young. I mean, it's it's old enough to know if something weird's enough to know if something weird's enough to know if something weird's going on in the house, but it's still going on in the house, but it's still going on in the house, but it's still very young. So, Larry worked as an very young. So, Larry worked as an very young. So, Larry worked as an optician at the Naval Medical Training optician at the Naval Medical Training optician at the Naval Medical Training Center in San Diego. Maya was a civilian Center in San Diego. Maya was a civilian Center in San Diego. Maya was a civilian employee with the Department of Defense, employee with the Department of Defense, employee with the Department of Defense, specifically an administrative specifically an administrative specifically an administrative specialist with the Navy. So there were specialist with the Navy. So there were specialist with the Navy. So there were allegations, as you said, Nema, that allegations, as you said, Nema, that allegations, as you said, Nema, that Larry was jealous, controlling, even Larry was jealous, controlling, even Larry was jealous, controlling, even abusive, tried to keep her under her abusive, tried to keep her under her abusive, tried to keep her under her thumb. Maya told those who were closest thumb. Maya told those who were closest thumb. Maya told those who were closest to her that if anything ever happens, to her that if anything ever happens, to her that if anything ever happens, you should look at Larry. I always find you should look at Larry. I always find you should look at Larry. I always find this the most fascinating because it this the most fascinating because it this the most fascinating because it sounds like something out of a dine sounds like something out of a dine sounds like something out of a dine episode, right? And it also sounds like episode, right? And it also sounds like episode, right? And it also sounds like something out of a Lifetime movie, but something out of a Lifetime movie, but something out of a Lifetime movie, but people really do do say these things to people really do do say these things to people really do do say these things to their loved ones.

their loved ones. their loved ones. >> They do. And like you said, I mean, this >> They do. And like you said, I mean, this >> They do. And like you said, I mean, this was really um sort of the American was really um sort of the American was really um sort of the American dream. Two Filipino Americans. They meet dream. Two Filipino Americans. They meet dream. Two Filipino Americans. They meet in high school, high school sweethearts. in high school, high school sweethearts. in high school, high school sweethearts. Um they both end up working for the Um they both end up working for the Um they both end up working for the government. Obviously, there a big government. Obviously, there a big government. Obviously, there a big employer there in San Diego and employer there in San Diego and employer there in San Diego and everything seems great on the surface. everything seems great on the surface. everything seems great on the surface. The in-laws um are obviously involved, The in-laws um are obviously involved, The in-laws um are obviously involved, very close-knit, extended family as very close-knit, extended family as very close-knit, extended family as well. But I think we know as well. But I think we know as well. But I think we know as prosecutors, today's domestic violence prosecutors, today's domestic violence prosecutors, today's domestic violence is tomorrow's murder. And anyone who is tomorrow's murder. And anyone who is tomorrow's murder. And anyone who follows true crime knows that, you know, follows true crime knows that, you know, follows true crime knows that, you know, if a husband or a wife disappears, if a husband or a wife disappears, if a husband or a wife disappears, usually the first suspect is the spouse, usually the first suspect is the spouse, usually the first suspect is the spouse, right? I mean, I think that's sort of a right? I mean, I think that's sort of a right? I mean, I think that's sort of a tale as old as time. Now, you add an tale as old as time. Now, you add an tale as old as time. Now, you add an affair on top of this allegedly, and affair on top of this allegedly, and affair on top of this allegedly, and then you add the evidence that she's then you add the evidence that she's then you add the evidence that she's talking to family members about a talking to family members about a talking to family members about a divorce, is contacting a divorce divorce, is contacting a divorce divorce, is contacting a divorce attorney. Then all of a sudden you have attorney. Then all of a sudden you have attorney. Then all of a sudden you have all the elements that you need for a all the elements that you need for a all the elements that you need for a nobody murder case. I think you know nobody murder case. I think you know nobody murder case. I think you know sometimes people say well look it's sometimes people say well look it's sometimes people say well look it's difficult to prove a case without a difficult to prove a case without a difficult to prove a case without a body. And obviously you want a body as a body. And obviously you want a body as a body. And obviously you want a body as a prosecutor and law enforcement for so prosecutor and law enforcement for so prosecutor and law enforcement for so many reasons. But I think you had all many reasons. But I think you had all many reasons. But I think you had all the ingredients here, Anna, and enough the ingredients here, Anna, and enough the ingredients here, Anna, and enough people that knew about it and frankly people that knew about it and frankly people that knew about it and frankly some of Larry's really damaging messages some of Larry's really damaging messages some of Larry's really damaging messages to the spellcasters to the spellcasters to the spellcasters and it kept getting sort of increasingly and it kept getting sort of increasingly and it kept getting sort of increasingly worse. You know, first I think he wants worse. You know, first I think he wants worse. You know, first I think he wants her to stay, then he doesn't want her to

her to stay, then he doesn't want her to her to stay, then he doesn't want her to leave, then he's trying to cast spells leave, then he's trying to cast spells leave, then he's trying to cast spells on he wants her incapacitated in a way on he wants her incapacitated in a way on he wants her incapacitated in a way she can't like physically leave the she can't like physically leave the she can't like physically leave the house. He obviously knows about the house. He obviously knows about the house. He obviously knows about the other man and wants spells to be cast on other man and wants spells to be cast on other man and wants spells to be cast on him. So you really kind of get into a him. So you really kind of get into a him. So you really kind of get into a state of mind that you don't typically state of mind that you don't typically state of mind that you don't typically see. Now I think with like AI and chat see. Now I think with like AI and chat see. Now I think with like AI and chat GBT we are seeing this more now where GBT we are seeing this more now where GBT we are seeing this more now where people are uh communicating with their people are uh communicating with their people are uh communicating with their phones but again normally you don't have phones but again normally you don't have phones but again normally you don't have these types of messages um for a murder these types of messages um for a murder these types of messages um for a murder defendant but you did in this particular defendant but you did in this particular defendant but you did in this particular case. As many cases as I have covered on case. As many cases as I have covered on case. As many cases as I have covered on this podcast, we've done something like this podcast, we've done something like this podcast, we've done something like more than 500 podcasts here on True more than 500 podcasts here on True more than 500 podcasts here on True Crime News. Nema, I do [clears throat] Crime News. Nema, I do [clears throat] Crime News. Nema, I do [clears throat] not remember a case with spellcasters. not remember a case with spellcasters. not remember a case with spellcasters. Oh, there's been some witchcraft. Oh, there's been some witchcraft. Oh, there's been some witchcraft. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] There have been some voodoo dolls, but There have been some voodoo dolls, but There have been some voodoo dolls, but this whole like world of spellcasters to this whole like world of spellcasters to this whole like world of spellcasters to I don't know. Guess I guess when I'm I don't know. Guess I guess when I'm I don't know. Guess I guess when I'm just, you know, doom scrolling, somehow just, you know, doom scrolling, somehow just, you know, doom scrolling, somehow I miss this whole spellcaster industry, I miss this whole spellcaster industry, I miss this whole spellcaster industry, this cottage industry.

this cottage industry. this cottage industry. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I I haven't heard about it either until >> I I haven't heard about it either until >> I I haven't heard about it either until this case. I didn't know like it exists. this case. I didn't know like it exists. this case. I didn't know like it exists. You You know, you see like the jokes and You You know, you see like the jokes and You You know, you see like the jokes and the memes, you know, uh I'm going to the memes, you know, uh I'm going to the memes, you know, uh I'm going to have pay someone to put a spell on my uh have pay someone to put a spell on my uh have pay someone to put a spell on my uh World Cup opponent, right? [laughter] I World Cup opponent, right? [laughter] I World Cup opponent, right? [laughter] I always thought it was a joke, you know, always thought it was a joke, you know, always thought it was a joke, you know, that but apparently there are people that but apparently there are people that but apparently there are people that do this and you can pay them. I that do this and you can pay them. I that do this and you can pay them. I think he paid people more than $1,000 think he paid people more than $1,000 think he paid people more than $1,000 for the these series of spells. So, for the these series of spells. So, for the these series of spells. So, look, you learn something new every day look, you learn something new every day look, you learn something new every day and like you said, Anna, I've been doing and like you said, Anna, I've been doing and like you said, Anna, I've been doing this 25 years. It's the first time I'd this 25 years. It's the first time I'd this 25 years. It's the first time I'd ever heard of such a thing and it was in ever heard of such a thing and it was in ever heard of such a thing and it was in this particular case. I know it is the this particular case. I know it is the this particular case. I know it is the weirdest weirdest. There are a lot of weirdest weirdest. There are a lot of weirdest weirdest. There are a lot of weird things, but that to me is just weird things, but that to me is just weird things, but that to me is just like and it's fascinating what his like and it's fascinating what his like and it's fascinating what his spells are and what his wishes are to spells are and what his wishes are to spells are and what his wishes are to the point that he's like an adolescent. the point that he's like an adolescent. the point that he's like an adolescent. He's like a child, you know, He's like a child, you know, He's like a child, you know, incapacitate her so she needs me because incapacitate her so she needs me because incapacitate her so she needs me because that's the only time she's nice to me is that's the only time she's nice to me is that's the only time she's nice to me is what he wrote. I'm like, you you are what he wrote. I'm like, you you are what he wrote. I'm like, you you are such a manchild.

such a manchild. such a manchild. >> No, no question. And you know, you have >> No, no question. And you know, you have >> No, no question. And you know, you have that sort of emotional immaturity on one that sort of emotional immaturity on one that sort of emotional immaturity on one hand and then you have lots of firearms hand and then you have lots of firearms hand and then you have lots of firearms in the house too, you know, on the in the house too, you know, on the in the house too, you know, on the other. So, um, and again, I I don't other. So, um, and again, I I don't other. So, um, and again, I I don't necessarily think that Maya was shot. necessarily think that Maya was shot. necessarily think that Maya was shot. There wasn't necessarily evidence There wasn't necessarily evidence There wasn't necessarily evidence presented, but I mean, you know, you presented, but I mean, you know, you presented, but I mean, you know, you have three young kids. You and everyone have three young kids. You and everyone have three young kids. You and everyone has a white a right to have a firearm. has a white a right to have a firearm. has a white a right to have a firearm. Obviously, there's also some allegations Obviously, there's also some allegations Obviously, there's also some allegations that he, you know, had some of these that he, you know, had some of these that he, you know, had some of these weapons within reach of the kids. They weapons within reach of the kids. They weapons within reach of the kids. They may have known the the gun safe code. may have known the the gun safe code. may have known the the gun safe code. There's some pictures of the kids with There's some pictures of the kids with There's some pictures of the kids with firearms that kind of came in as well. firearms that kind of came in as well. firearms that kind of came in as well. So, you know, you have someone that So, you know, you have someone that So, you know, you have someone that maybe isn't the most emotionally mature, maybe isn't the most emotionally mature, maybe isn't the most emotionally mature, but also has access to some deadly but also has access to some deadly but also has access to some deadly weapons weapons weapons >> there. You know, there are two theories >> there. You know, there are two theories >> there. You know, there are two theories about how she could have died. And about how she could have died. And about how she could have died. And again, we have no idea. We have no idea. again, we have no idea. We have no idea. again, we have no idea. We have no idea. One is that she was poisoned with One is that she was poisoned with One is that she was poisoned with hemlock based on some searches he made. hemlock based on some searches he made. hemlock based on some searches he made. And then the other one was that um on And then the other one was that um on And then the other one was that um on that night that she disappeared, that night that she disappeared, that night that she disappeared, neighbors thought it was kind of weird neighbors thought it was kind of weird neighbors thought it was kind of weird that the kids were outside in the that the kids were outside in the that the kids were outside in the backyard until like 10 or 10:30 at night backyard until like 10 or 10:30 at night backyard until like 10 or 10:30 at night and you know they're young kids and it's and you know they're young kids and it's and you know they're young kids and it's a school night and that they heard like a school night and that they heard like a school night and that they heard like a popping sound. So there was a theory a popping sound. So there was a theory a popping sound. So there was a theory that maybe she was shot. Um that maybe she was shot. Um that maybe she was shot. Um but again prosecutors were never able to but again prosecutors were never able to but again prosecutors were never able to really say with any clarity and I think really say with any clarity and I think really say with any clarity and I think had she been shot in the house it is

had she been shot in the house it is had she been shot in the house it is possible right that there could have possible right that there could have possible right that there could have been some bullet fragments or something been some bullet fragments or something been some bullet fragments or something and the house was searched multiple and the house was searched multiple and the house was searched multiple times and none of that evidence ever times and none of that evidence ever times and none of that evidence ever came to light. So I have no idea. Right. came to light. So I have no idea. Right. came to light. So I have no idea. Right. >> That's right. Yeah. So there was really >> That's right. Yeah. So there was really >> That's right. Yeah. So there was really no sort of manner and means of death in no sort of manner and means of death in no sort of manner and means of death in this case. And like you said, there was this case. And like you said, there was this case. And like you said, there was the vial of the hemlock poison. Um, the vial of the hemlock poison. Um, the vial of the hemlock poison. Um, plant poison, which you know, I I plant poison, which you know, I I plant poison, which you know, I I learned about as well. So, learned about as well. So, learned about as well. So, >> hemlock, who has hemlock? It goes with >> hemlock, who has hemlock? It goes with >> hemlock, who has hemlock? It goes with spellcasters. spellcasters. spellcasters. >> Yeah, exactly. And then you have the >> Yeah, exactly. And then you have the >> Yeah, exactly. And then you have the neighbor theory and the kids are out. neighbor theory and the kids are out. neighbor theory and the kids are out. It's 10:00. Still San Diego, but it's It's 10:00. Still San Diego, but it's It's 10:00. Still San Diego, but it's cold, right? It's January. So, the kids cold, right? It's January. So, the kids cold, right? It's January. So, the kids are out by themselves. The neighbors are out by themselves. The neighbors are out by themselves. The neighbors thought it was weird. And they got a thought it was weird. And they got a thought it was weird. And they got a recording of some sort of banging, loud recording of some sort of banging, loud recording of some sort of banging, loud noises. there is evidence of some sort noises. there is evidence of some sort noises. there is evidence of some sort of altercation of altercation of altercation um at least according to the neighbors um at least according to the neighbors um at least according to the neighbors as well. So whether it was gunshots, as well. So whether it was gunshots, as well. So whether it was gunshots, whether it was something else, I don't whether it was something else, I don't whether it was something else, I don't think we ever will know, but we do know think we ever will know, but we do know think we ever will know, but we do know that it was very strange for this whole that it was very strange for this whole that it was very strange for this whole thing to happen and how it went down thing to happen and how it went down thing to happen and how it went down because like you said, young kids because like you said, young kids because like you said, young kids outside on a cold winter's day, even in outside on a cold winter's day, even in outside on a cold winter's day, even in Southern California, lots of noise, Southern California, lots of noise, Southern California, lots of noise, right? And we know domestic violence right? And we know domestic violence right? And we know domestic violence cases often times it's the neighbors cases often times it's the neighbors cases often times it's the neighbors that call, right? Because it's so loud that call, right? Because it's so loud that call, right? Because it's so loud and there was that recording which was and there was that recording which was and there was that recording which was important evidence in the case.

important evidence in the case. important evidence in the case. >> Also important evidence was a security >> Also important evidence was a security >> Also important evidence was a security camera that picked up camera that picked up camera that picked up >> Maya coming home that day. So the last >> Maya coming home that day. So the last >> Maya coming home that day. So the last time she was seen alive was on a time she was seen alive was on a time she was seen alive was on a security camera on the afternoon of security camera on the afternoon of security camera on the afternoon of January 7th, 2021. She parked her Jeep January 7th, 2021. She parked her Jeep January 7th, 2021. She parked her Jeep on the street in front of the home at on the street in front of the home at on the street in front of the home at around 4:42 p.m. and then she goes into around 4:42 p.m. and then she goes into around 4:42 p.m. and then she goes into the house. Last time we see her alive. the house. Last time we see her alive. the house. Last time we see her alive. So prosecutors theorize that between So prosecutors theorize that between So prosecutors theorize that between January 7th and 8th, that's when they January 7th and 8th, that's when they January 7th and 8th, that's when they believe Larry killed Maya and then believe Larry killed Maya and then believe Larry killed Maya and then disposed of her body. So that's the disposed of her body. So that's the disposed of her body. So that's the window that we're looking at. On January window that we're looking at. On January window that we're looking at. On January 9th, shortly before midnight, Maya's 9th, shortly before midnight, Maya's 9th, shortly before midnight, Maya's sister sister sister Uh, Mary Chris Doule called the Chula Uh, Mary Chris Doule called the Chula Uh, Mary Chris Doule called the Chula Vista Police Department to report her Vista Police Department to report her Vista Police Department to report her sister missing. She told officers that sister missing. She told officers that sister missing. She told officers that the family had plans to celebrate the the family had plans to celebrate the the family had plans to celebrate the 11th birthday of uh Maya and Larry's 11th birthday of uh Maya and Larry's 11th birthday of uh Maya and Larry's daughter with a trip to Big Bear. And daughter with a trip to Big Bear. And daughter with a trip to Big Bear. And there was a big family chat, you know, there was a big family chat, you know, there was a big family chat, you know, messaging, messaging, messaging, getting messaging, messaging, messaging, getting messaging, messaging, messaging, getting everything ready for this trip and everything ready for this trip and everything ready for this trip and birthday. But where's Maya? Again, it birthday. But where's Maya? Again, it birthday. But where's Maya? Again, it doesn't it's just out of the ordinary.

doesn't it's just out of the ordinary. doesn't it's just out of the ordinary. So when family members couldn't reach So when family members couldn't reach So when family members couldn't reach her, that's when you started explaining her, that's when you started explaining her, that's when you started explaining this this very weird thing that happens this this very weird thing that happens this this very weird thing that happens when the brother goes to the house. So when the brother goes to the house. So when the brother goes to the house. So Larry allegedly tells him, "Oh, you Larry allegedly tells him, "Oh, you Larry allegedly tells him, "Oh, you know, she's been locked in her room." know, she's been locked in her room." know, she's been locked in her room." And then of course he asked the kids, of And then of course he asked the kids, of And then of course he asked the kids, of course, and they've been virtual course, and they've been virtual course, and they've been virtual learning. And when they would do that, learning. And when they would do that, learning. And when they would do that, Maya would usually, you know, oversee Maya would usually, you know, oversee Maya would usually, you know, oversee them pop in, but they hadn't seen their them pop in, but they hadn't seen their them pop in, but they hadn't seen their mom either. So, it's like, I don't know, mom either. So, it's like, I don't know, mom either. So, it's like, I don't know, it could be between one and two days it could be between one and two days it could be between one and two days here where no one has really seen mom, here where no one has really seen mom, here where no one has really seen mom, but she's supposedly in the bedroom with but she's supposedly in the bedroom with but she's supposedly in the bedroom with the door locked and not coming out. And the door locked and not coming out. And the door locked and not coming out. And how could you not find that bizarre? I how could you not find that bizarre? I how could you not find that bizarre? I mean, wouldn't you have broken down the mean, wouldn't you have broken down the mean, wouldn't you have broken down the door by now? door by now? door by now? >> Oh, no question. Right. And that's why >> Oh, no question. Right. And that's why >> Oh, no question. Right. And that's why it's important everyone needs to know it's important everyone needs to know it's important everyone needs to know this is the pandemic, right? the kids, this is the pandemic, right? the kids, this is the pandemic, right? the kids, you know, they're on Zoom all day. It you know, they're on Zoom all day. It you know, they're on Zoom all day. It was Zoom school. Look, I was working was Zoom school. Look, I was working was Zoom school. Look, I was working from home for a year and a half. I would from home for a year and a half. I would from home for a year and a half. I would do all my True Kind podcast on Zoom. And do all my True Kind podcast on Zoom. And do all my True Kind podcast on Zoom. And you know, that it really kind of changed you know, that it really kind of changed you know, that it really kind of changed things. But like, it was chaos in my things. But like, it was chaos in my things. But like, it was chaos in my house. There's one Zoom going in one house. There's one Zoom going in one house. There's one Zoom going in one room, one in another. There's no way room, one in another. There's no way room, one in another. There's no way anything would have gotten done without anything would have gotten done without anything would have gotten done without my wife helping the kids out. And my wife helping the kids out. And my wife helping the kids out. And obviously, I was helping, too. So it obviously, I was helping, too. So it obviously, I was helping, too. So it just didn't make any sense, right, for just didn't make any sense, right, for just didn't make any sense, right, for someone to be in their room, locked in someone to be in their room, locked in someone to be in their room, locked in their room when you have three kids, at their room when you have three kids, at their room when you have three kids, at least two of them of school age having least two of them of school age having least two of them of school age having to do their homework, right, virtually.

to do their homework, right, virtually. to do their homework, right, virtually. So then obviously you have the family So then obviously you have the family So then obviously you have the family members who were concerned and then members who were concerned and then members who were concerned and then again Larry's behavior just again Larry's behavior just again Larry's behavior just inconsistent, doesn't make sense, inconsistent, doesn't make sense, inconsistent, doesn't make sense, shifting stories, right? Um telling the shifting stories, right? Um telling the shifting stories, right? Um telling the family one thing, telling law family one thing, telling law family one thing, telling law enforcement another thing. And I think enforcement another thing. And I think enforcement another thing. And I think that was really his downfall in this that was really his downfall in this that was really his downfall in this case because his story didn't make any case because his story didn't make any case because his story didn't make any sense whatsoever. sense whatsoever. sense whatsoever. >> Oh, it made zero zero sense because, you >> Oh, it made zero zero sense because, you >> Oh, it made zero zero sense because, you know, he he goes ahead and he tells the know, he he goes ahead and he tells the know, he he goes ahead and he tells the police and I guess family that he had police and I guess family that he had police and I guess family that he had gone to the beach when you were talking gone to the beach when you were talking gone to the beach when you were talking about him backing up the SUV really about him backing up the SUV really about him backing up the SUV really early in the morning that um he took um early in the morning that um he took um early in the morning that um he took um one of the kids to the beach. But one of the kids to the beach. But one of the kids to the beach. But >> yeah, Salana Beach, which is sort of >> yeah, Salana Beach, which is sort of >> yeah, Salana Beach, which is sort of north county San Diego. Um, that was the north county San Diego. Um, that was the north county San Diego. Um, that was the story. story. story. >> But it was cold. I know it's California, >> But it was cold. I know it's California, >> But it was cold. I know it's California, but it's January, so it was like in the but it's January, so it was like in the but it's January, so it was like in the 60s and it was overcast and foggy. That 60s and it was overcast and foggy. That 60s and it was overcast and foggy. That is cold to sit on a beach. And then he's is cold to sit on a beach. And then he's is cold to sit on a beach. And then he's gone. You know, based on when he left gone. You know, based on when he left gone. You know, based on when he left the house and when the vehicle is seen the house and when the vehicle is seen the house and when the vehicle is seen coming back, it's something like almost coming back, it's something like almost coming back, it's something like almost 12 hours.

12 hours. 12 hours. Listen, kids [clears throat] love the Listen, kids [clears throat] love the Listen, kids [clears throat] love the beach, but every parent out there knows beach, but every parent out there knows beach, but every parent out there knows there's no kid that's going to sit out there's no kid that's going to sit out there's no kid that's going to sit out there for 12 hours shivering. It's just there for 12 hours shivering. It's just there for 12 hours shivering. It's just not going to happen. not going to happen. not going to happen. >> Yeah. And I'm sure the East Coasters are >> Yeah. And I'm sure the East Coasters are >> Yeah. And I'm sure the East Coasters are going to think we're crazy, but in going to think we're crazy, but in going to think we're crazy, but in California, we do not go to the beach. California, we do not go to the beach. California, we do not go to the beach. We don't we barely leave our house when We don't we barely leave our house when We don't we barely leave our house when it's 60. So, yeah, the the temperature it's 60. So, yeah, the the temperature it's 60. So, yeah, the the temperature didn't make sense. The the timeline didn't make sense. The the timeline didn't make sense. The the timeline didn't make sense, 12 hours. And then, didn't make sense, 12 hours. And then, didn't make sense, 12 hours. And then, you know, when he gets back, all of a you know, when he gets back, all of a you know, when he gets back, all of a sudden, he says, "Hey, I got to detail sudden, he says, "Hey, I got to detail sudden, he says, "Hey, I got to detail my car." you know, like, [laughter] my car." you know, like, [laughter] my car." you know, like, [laughter] you know, so then you get you have the you know, so then you get you have the you know, so then you get you have the cover up, right? He's asking neighbors cover up, right? He's asking neighbors cover up, right? He's asking neighbors to detail. I don't know if they have to detail. I don't know if they have to detail. I don't know if they have some sort of service, but you know, he's some sort of service, but you know, he's some sort of service, but you know, he's meticulously cleaning this car. meticulously cleaning this car. meticulously cleaning this car. Again, gives rise to the clear inference Again, gives rise to the clear inference Again, gives rise to the clear inference that he's cleaning up something in that that he's cleaning up something in that that he's cleaning up something in that vehicle. vehicle. vehicle. >> And Larry wasn't charged for a long >> And Larry wasn't charged for a long >> And Larry wasn't charged for a long time. It was a 9 months later that he time. It was a 9 months later that he time. It was a 9 months later that he was charged. And I remember early on in was charged. And I remember early on in was charged. And I remember early on in this case the police saying flat out the this case the police saying flat out the this case the police saying flat out the husband is not a suspect. I always found husband is not a suspect. I always found husband is not a suspect. I always found that so interesting.

that so interesting. that so interesting. >> Yeah. I don't know why they said that. >> Yeah. I don't know why they said that. >> Yeah. I don't know why they said that. First they said that then they said he's First they said that then they said he's First they said that then they said he's a person of interest and a person of interest and a person of interest and >> you know look on one hand you want law >> you know look on one hand you want law >> you know look on one hand you want law enforcement to be sort of transparent. enforcement to be sort of transparent. enforcement to be sort of transparent. Um but you know Um but you know Um but you know and again I recall because so many and again I recall because so many and again I recall because so many people were upset. There were national people were upset. There were national people were upset. There were national news outlets that were saying like, news outlets that were saying like, news outlets that were saying like, "Where is Maya? What's going on? What is "Where is Maya? What's going on? What is "Where is Maya? What's going on? What is law enforcement doing?" Um, so I feel law enforcement doing?" Um, so I feel law enforcement doing?" Um, so I feel they, you know, felt pressured to say they, you know, felt pressured to say they, you know, felt pressured to say something. But you don't want to say something. But you don't want to say something. But you don't want to say something like that when certainly it something like that when certainly it something like that when certainly it may not be true, especially when the may not be true, especially when the may not be true, especially when the family members are talking about this family members are talking about this family members are talking about this abusive relationship that they had. abusive relationship that they had. abusive relationship that they had. >> Mhm. Unless they did that on purpose >> Mhm. Unless they did that on purpose >> Mhm. Unless they did that on purpose because they wanted him to relax, you because they wanted him to relax, you because they wanted him to relax, you know, put down his guard and perhaps know, put down his guard and perhaps know, put down his guard and perhaps make some errors. I don't know because make some errors. I don't know because make some errors. I don't know because it would have been suspicious from the it would have been suspicious from the it would have been suspicious from the very beginning because if you have very beginning because if you have very beginning because if you have strangers searching for your wife, but strangers searching for your wife, but strangers searching for your wife, but you're not searching for her. That to me you're not searching for her. That to me you're not searching for her. That to me is really bizarre. is really bizarre. is really bizarre. >> Yeah. And and I understand why law >> Yeah. And and I understand why law >> Yeah. And and I understand why law enforcement doesn't want to make an enforcement doesn't want to make an enforcement doesn't want to make an arrest until they're sure they have arrest until they're sure they have arrest until they're sure they have their eyes dotted, their tees are their eyes dotted, their tees are their eyes dotted, their tees are crossed. You know, on the other hand, I crossed. You know, on the other hand, I crossed. You know, on the other hand, I could tell you that as a member of the could tell you that as a member of the could tell you that as a member of the public, you know, it's concerning when public, you know, it's concerning when public, you know, it's concerning when you're leaving a murderer free. I mean, you're leaving a murderer free. I mean, you're leaving a murderer free. I mean, so many bad things can happen, right?

so many bad things can happen, right? so many bad things can happen, right? One, they could obviously kill someone One, they could obviously kill someone One, they could obviously kill someone else. They can destroy evidence, else. They can destroy evidence, else. They can destroy evidence, obstruct justice, or they can flee. Um, obstruct justice, or they can flee. Um, obstruct justice, or they can flee. Um, now maybe obviously he has young kids now maybe obviously he has young kids now maybe obviously he has young kids and they thought that he wouldn't, but and they thought that he wouldn't, but and they thought that he wouldn't, but you know, it it is problematic to wait you know, it it is problematic to wait you know, it it is problematic to wait too long as well, right? You don't you too long as well, right? You don't you too long as well, right? You don't you don't want to jump the gun. You don't don't want to jump the gun. You don't don't want to jump the gun. You don't want to, you know, be premature and want to, you know, be premature and want to, you know, be premature and arrest someone because then those speedy arrest someone because then those speedy arrest someone because then those speedy trial, you know, deadlines start running trial, you know, deadlines start running trial, you know, deadlines start running that clock and if the defense thinks you that clock and if the defense thinks you that clock and if the defense thinks you don't have a strong case, they can don't have a strong case, they can don't have a strong case, they can really jam you up if you're a really jam you up if you're a really jam you up if you're a prosecutor. But on the other hand, I prosecutor. But on the other hand, I prosecutor. But on the other hand, I think waiting too long if you're law think waiting too long if you're law think waiting too long if you're law enforcement or the prosecution can be a enforcement or the prosecution can be a enforcement or the prosecution can be a potential problem as well. potential problem as well. potential problem as well. >> Mhm. So during those nine months, they >> Mhm. So during those nine months, they >> Mhm. So during those nine months, they served 66 different search warrants. served 66 different search warrants. served 66 different search warrants. They interviewed 87 witnesses and they They interviewed 87 witnesses and they They interviewed 87 witnesses and they followed up on what they said were 128 followed up on what they said were 128 followed up on what they said were 128 credible tips. They finally arrested credible tips. They finally arrested credible tips. They finally arrested Larry on suspicion of murder on October Larry on suspicion of murder on October Larry on suspicion of murder on October 19th of 2021. 19th of 2021. 19th of 2021. So, it's at that point that they felt So, it's at that point that they felt So, it's at that point that they felt they had a better picture of what was they had a better picture of what was they had a better picture of what was going on in the marriage and how Maya going on in the marriage and how Maya going on in the marriage and how Maya wanted out and they were able to piece wanted out and they were able to piece wanted out and they were able to piece these things together. Now, according to these things together. Now, according to these things together. Now, according to investigators, Maya began the process of investigators, Maya began the process of investigators, Maya began the process of separating from her husband as early as separating from her husband as early as separating from her husband as early as 2020. Meaning, it's not like she woke up 2020. Meaning, it's not like she woke up 2020. Meaning, it's not like she woke up that day and said, "I'm calling a that day and said, "I'm calling a that day and said, "I'm calling a divorce lawyer." This really had been divorce lawyer." This really had been divorce lawyer." This really had been building for for a while. So, she had building for for a while. So, she had building for for a while. So, she had told friends in December of that year told friends in December of that year told friends in December of that year that her marriage to Larry was

that her marriage to Larry was that her marriage to Larry was definitely over. um part of her plan to definitely over. um part of her plan to definitely over. um part of her plan to leave her husband. Maya had actually leave her husband. Maya had actually leave her husband. Maya had actually been doing uh research um looking at been doing uh research um looking at been doing uh research um looking at local attorneys trying to figure out how local attorneys trying to figure out how local attorneys trying to figure out how to calculate things like child support to calculate things like child support to calculate things like child support payments. So she was doing her due payments. So she was doing her due payments. So she was doing her due diligence. You know, it's a whole new diligence. You know, it's a whole new diligence. You know, it's a whole new world when you divorce. So, as she is world when you divorce. So, as she is world when you divorce. So, as she is kind of coming up with her plan, Larry kind of coming up with her plan, Larry kind of coming up with her plan, Larry is now becoming more erratic and he's is now becoming more erratic and he's is now becoming more erratic and he's getting more stressed out because it's getting more stressed out because it's getting more stressed out because it's becoming more real to him that she's becoming more real to him that she's becoming more real to him that she's going to leave him. So, um that's when going to leave him. So, um that's when going to leave him. So, um that's when he starts with the craziness of the he starts with the craziness of the he starts with the craziness of the spells and hex's. It's just the oddest spells and hex's. It's just the oddest spells and hex's. It's just the oddest approach to keeping your wife. Yeah, approach to keeping your wife. Yeah, approach to keeping your wife. Yeah, >> I you know the defense I did find this >> I you know the defense I did find this >> I you know the defense I did find this very plausible. The defense said you very plausible. The defense said you very plausible. The defense said you know about these hexes and spells. They know about these hexes and spells. They know about these hexes and spells. They said this was a husband who was said this was a husband who was said this was a husband who was desperate to stay in his marriage and desperate to stay in his marriage and desperate to stay in his marriage and wanted to be married. I agree. I agree wanted to be married. I agree. I agree wanted to be married. I agree. I agree that it shows that. But that doesn't that it shows that. But that doesn't that it shows that. But that doesn't mean that he didn't kill her.

mean that he didn't kill her. mean that he didn't kill her. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Uh >> Right. Uh >> Right. Uh >> well, especially you add the affair on >> well, especially you add the affair on >> well, especially you add the affair on top of it and it's one of those top of it and it's one of those top of it and it's one of those situations where he probably thought, situations where he probably thought, situations where he probably thought, and again, I think it's a reasonable and again, I think it's a reasonable and again, I think it's a reasonable assumption. Yeah. If she's going to assumption. Yeah. If she's going to assumption. Yeah. If she's going to leave, if I can't have her, no one can. leave, if I can't have her, no one can. leave, if I can't have her, no one can. Right. And I think that, look, I I think Right. And I think that, look, I I think Right. And I think that, look, I I think the defense did the best job with the the defense did the best job with the the defense did the best job with the hand that they were dealt. It's a tough hand that they were dealt. It's a tough hand that they were dealt. It's a tough case. I think they they may have taken case. I think they they may have taken case. I think they they may have taken it a little bit too far. They said that it a little bit too far. They said that it a little bit too far. They said that it was actually Maya who was abusive. I it was actually Maya who was abusive. I it was actually Maya who was abusive. I didn't think that that was particularly didn't think that that was particularly didn't think that that was particularly a good argument, but yeah. I mean, look, a good argument, but yeah. I mean, look, a good argument, but yeah. I mean, look, when you get into someone's thoughts, when you get into someone's thoughts, when you get into someone's thoughts, um, sometimes, you know, defense um, sometimes, you know, defense um, sometimes, you know, defense attorneys, good ones, can really sort of attorneys, good ones, can really sort of attorneys, good ones, can really sort of explain that away. Look, this is, um, explain that away. Look, this is, um, explain that away. Look, this is, um, someone who, uh, was going through a someone who, uh, was going through a someone who, uh, was going through a very traumatic experience. They thought very traumatic experience. They thought very traumatic experience. They thought they were going to lose their wife. They they were going to lose their wife. They they were going to lose their wife. They were going to lose their family, and were going to lose their family, and were going to lose their family, and this was someone who was desperate. this was someone who was desperate. this was someone who was desperate. Yeah, it made sort of no sense. Um they Yeah, it made sort of no sense. Um they Yeah, it made sort of no sense. Um they also argued that it was protected speech also argued that it was protected speech also argued that it was protected speech as well. But um it it was interesting as well. But um it it was interesting as well. But um it it was interesting because because because you know we've seen it in some other you know we've seen it in some other you know we've seen it in some other cases. There was a case here in LA, the cases. There was a case here in LA, the cases. There was a case here in LA, the Jonathan render connect case, the the Jonathan render connect case, the the Jonathan render connect case, the the the alleged Malibu Palisades arsonist the alleged Malibu Palisades arsonist the alleged Malibu Palisades arsonist who the the prosecution sort of got into who the the prosecution sort of got into who the the prosecution sort of got into sort of similar uh phone history into sort of similar uh phone history into sort of similar uh phone history into what was in his head. And the jurors what was in his head. And the jurors what was in his head. And the jurors didn't like that at all and they almost didn't like that at all and they almost didn't like that at all and they almost acquitted him. those two 10 in favor of acquitted him. those two 10 in favor of acquitted him. those two 10 in favor of a quiddle. So, you do have to be careful a quiddle. So, you do have to be careful a quiddle. So, you do have to be careful if you're the prosecution to um you if you're the prosecution to um you if you're the prosecution to um you know, if you have this sort of these know, if you have this sort of these know, if you have this sort of these intimate private thoughts put out in a

intimate private thoughts put out in a intimate private thoughts put out in a way that um sometimes that can turn off way that um sometimes that can turn off way that um sometimes that can turn off the jurors. But in this particular case, the jurors. But in this particular case, the jurors. But in this particular case, I think it was pretty clear that um you I think it was pretty clear that um you I think it was pretty clear that um you know, he was very controlling. He was know, he was very controlling. He was know, he was very controlling. He was very jealous. And you know, when you very jealous. And you know, when you very jealous. And you know, when you want to incapacitate your wife in such a want to incapacitate your wife in such a want to incapacitate your wife in such a way that she can't even leave the house, way that she can't even leave the house, way that she can't even leave the house, that's going, you know, that that's that's going, you know, that that's that's going, you know, that that's going too far in my opinion. That's not going too far in my opinion. That's not going too far in my opinion. That's not trying to save your marriage. That's not trying to save your marriage. That's not trying to save your marriage. That's not trying to uh have some emergency uh trying to uh have some emergency uh trying to uh have some emergency uh marriage counseling and therapy. This is marriage counseling and therapy. This is marriage counseling and therapy. This is the actions of um someone like you said the actions of um someone like you said the actions of um someone like you said who's very agitated and again someone in who's very agitated and again someone in who's very agitated and again someone in my opinion who's prone to violence my opinion who's prone to violence my opinion who's prone to violence >> and desperate. And people make very bad >> and desperate. And people make very bad >> and desperate. And people make very bad decisions when they are desperate. And decisions when they are desperate. And decisions when they are desperate. And you know we always talk about what is uh you know we always talk about what is uh you know we always talk about what is uh basically like the inciting incident to basically like the inciting incident to basically like the inciting incident to the demise or the murder or the the demise or the murder or the the demise or the murder or the disappearance of a human being. It will disappearance of a human being. It will disappearance of a human being. It will be the secret's going to be be revealed. be the secret's going to be be revealed. be the secret's going to be be revealed. He she is going to leave. Um the money He she is going to leave. Um the money He she is going to leave. Um the money is due and I stole it and it doesn't is due and I stole it and it doesn't is due and I stole it and it doesn't exist and the whole world's going to exist and the whole world's going to exist and the whole world's going to know I'm a fraud. It's when these things know I'm a fraud. It's when these things know I'm a fraud. It's when these things are revealed. And so he was so desperate are revealed. And so he was so desperate are revealed. And so he was so desperate and clearly not thinking straight. I and clearly not thinking straight. I and clearly not thinking straight. I don't don't don't and that it was going on for so long and that it was going on for so long and that it was going on for so long with so much danger. I mean with those with so much danger. I mean with those with so much danger. I mean with those kids in the house and we're going to kids in the house and we're going to kids in the house and we're going to talk about that because in those nine talk about that because in those nine talk about that because in those nine months in between he was living with the months in between he was living with the months in between he was living with the children and then when he gets arrested children and then when he gets arrested children and then when he gets arrested his parents move into the house to take his parents move into the house to take his parents move into the house to take care of the children and then Maya's care of the children and then Maya's care of the children and then Maya's family starts fighting in court for

family starts fighting in court for family starts fighting in court for control and supervision of the children control and supervision of the children control and supervision of the children and ultimately the children end up going and ultimately the children end up going and ultimately the children end up going to Maya's family. And I saw this to Maya's family. And I saw this to Maya's family. And I saw this interview um that uh one of her interview um that uh one of her interview um that uh one of her relatives did about how it wasn't easy relatives did about how it wasn't easy relatives did about how it wasn't easy when custody of the children was then when custody of the children was then when custody of the children was then transferred to Maya's family because you transferred to Maya's family because you transferred to Maya's family because you have to understand they're just kids. So have to understand they're just kids. So have to understand they're just kids. So their mother is missing. The world is their mother is missing. The world is their mother is missing. The world is saying that you know their dad did it saying that you know their dad did it saying that you know their dad did it now. I'm sure the grandparents are now. I'm sure the grandparents are now. I'm sure the grandparents are convincing them your dad couldn't do convincing them your dad couldn't do convincing them your dad couldn't do this. And then the next thing you know, this. And then the next thing you know, this. And then the next thing you know, you're with the other relatives. you're with the other relatives. you're with the other relatives. It, you know, I appreciated um how It, you know, I appreciated um how It, you know, I appreciated um how candid they were to say that it wasn't candid they were to say that it wasn't candid they were to say that it wasn't easy and it hasn't been an easy easy and it hasn't been an easy easy and it hasn't been an easy transition. transition. transition. >> Oh, I can't I can't even imagine. Anna, >> Oh, I can't I can't even imagine. Anna, >> Oh, I can't I can't even imagine. Anna, uh so I'm a former prosecutor, but my uh so I'm a former prosecutor, but my uh so I'm a former prosecutor, but my wife actually is an attorney for foster wife actually is an attorney for foster wife actually is an attorney for foster kids. She's minor council independency kids. She's minor council independency kids. She's minor council independency court. So, court. So, court. So, >> wow. >> wow. >> wow. >> She deals with this all the time.

>> She deals with this all the time. >> She deals with this all the time. obviously, you know, physical abuse, um, obviously, you know, physical abuse, um, obviously, you know, physical abuse, um, sexual abuse, I mean, terrible things. sexual abuse, I mean, terrible things. sexual abuse, I mean, terrible things. But, yeah, I mean, in this type of case, But, yeah, I mean, in this type of case, But, yeah, I mean, in this type of case, if you're just looking at it from the if you're just looking at it from the if you're just looking at it from the kids perspective, and in those cases, kids perspective, and in those cases, kids perspective, and in those cases, the really the standard is the best the really the standard is the best the really the standard is the best interest of the child, you know, I mean, interest of the child, you know, I mean, interest of the child, you know, I mean, the they've lost both their parents, the they've lost both their parents, the they've lost both their parents, right? One of whom has been murdered and right? One of whom has been murdered and right? One of whom has been murdered and the other will probably die in the other will probably die in the other will probably die in California state prison. So, I can't California state prison. So, I can't California state prison. So, I can't even begin to imagine what those poor even begin to imagine what those poor even begin to imagine what those poor kids are going through. Now, you have kids are going through. Now, you have kids are going through. Now, you have the grandparents fighting over custody. the grandparents fighting over custody. the grandparents fighting over custody. um you know, which is certainly um you know, which is certainly um you know, which is certainly understandable, but now these kids are understandable, but now these kids are understandable, but now these kids are being dragged through court proceedings, being dragged through court proceedings, being dragged through court proceedings, having to deal with social workers. I having to deal with social workers. I having to deal with social workers. I mean, it's just so tragic um for those mean, it's just so tragic um for those mean, it's just so tragic um for those young kids, like you mentioned, Anna, to young kids, like you mentioned, Anna, to young kids, like you mentioned, Anna, to have to go through something like this. have to go through something like this. have to go through something like this. I can't even begin to imagine the trauma I can't even begin to imagine the trauma I can't even begin to imagine the trauma that they've experienced. that they've experienced. that they've experienced. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that there's >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that there's >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that there's also a part of them where they're having also a part of them where they're having also a part of them where they're having a hard time believing it, especially a hard time believing it, especially a hard time believing it, especially with mom missing because if you put with mom missing because if you put with mom missing because if you put yourself in the mind of a child, even yourself in the mind of a child, even yourself in the mind of a child, even let's say mom had died of of cancer or let's say mom had died of of cancer or let's say mom had died of of cancer or something or a terrible accident, even something or a terrible accident, even something or a terrible accident, even though they may know mom is dead, in the though they may know mom is dead, in the though they may know mom is dead, in the brain of a child and in the heart of a brain of a child and in the heart of a brain of a child and in the heart of a child, what they always want is for that child, what they always want is for that child, what they always want is for that parent to miraculously, like a child parent to miraculously, like a child parent to miraculously, like a child thinks, to come back thinks, to come back thinks, to come back >> and >> and >> and and there's a struggle here, and there's a struggle here, and there's a struggle here, >> especially when dad and the defense are >> especially when dad and the defense are >> especially when dad and the defense are probably saying that mom just is probably saying that mom just is probably saying that mom just is missing. Right.

missing. Right. missing. Right. >> Right. That mom is alive. >> Right. That mom is alive. >> Right. That mom is alive. >> Yeah. So, yeah, that's very, very >> Yeah. So, yeah, that's very, very >> Yeah. So, yeah, that's very, very difficult for them to cope with and difficult for them to cope with and difficult for them to cope with and grieve through. Um cuz you have this grieve through. Um cuz you have this grieve through. Um cuz you have this hope, this false hope. Very sad. hope, this false hope. Very sad. hope, this false hope. Very sad. >> Yeah. Really, really bad. So, at 4:39 on >> Yeah. Really, really bad. So, at 4:39 on >> Yeah. Really, really bad. So, at 4:39 on January 7th, minutes before Maya would January 7th, minutes before Maya would January 7th, minutes before Maya would arrive home, Larry messaged the arrive home, Larry messaged the arrive home, Larry messaged the spellcaster. So, this would have been spellcaster. So, this would have been spellcaster. So, this would have been among the last of the wishes. Quote, among the last of the wishes. Quote, among the last of the wishes. Quote, "Make her realize that we are meant to "Make her realize that we are meant to "Make her realize that we are meant to be with each other. Make her miserable be with each other. Make her miserable be with each other. Make her miserable without me. Make her want to sleep on without me. Make her want to sleep on without me. Make her want to sleep on the same bed for all eternity." the same bed for all eternity." the same bed for all eternity." I This This is like a really bad, you I This This is like a really bad, you I This This is like a really bad, you know, creepy fairy tale, right? Yeah, it know, creepy fairy tale, right? Yeah, it know, creepy fairy tale, right? Yeah, it is creepy and weird and I'm not is creepy and weird and I'm not is creepy and weird and I'm not surprised Maya wanted to leave. I mean, surprised Maya wanted to leave. I mean, surprised Maya wanted to leave. I mean, this is just bizarre behavior from a this is just bizarre behavior from a this is just bizarre behavior from a grown man. Again, I don't know this grown man. Again, I don't know this grown man. Again, I don't know this world. Uh hopefully I never have to know world. Uh hopefully I never have to know world. Uh hopefully I never have to know this world, but this is just insane to this world, but this is just insane to this world, but this is just insane to me. Anna, me. Anna, me. Anna, >> it is. And his last message request to a >> it is. And his last message request to a >> it is. And his last message request to a spellcaster would have been at 2:36 a.m.

spellcaster would have been at 2:36 a.m. spellcaster would have been at 2:36 a.m. on January 8th. So, what's unclear is if on January 8th. So, what's unclear is if on January 8th. So, what's unclear is if that was his last request, does that that was his last request, does that that was his last request, does that mean that was his final attempt before, mean that was his final attempt before, mean that was his final attempt before, you know, he lost it? I don't know. you know, he lost it? I don't know. you know, he lost it? I don't know. >> And and if you really think your wife is >> And and if you really think your wife is >> And and if you really think your wife is missing, wouldn't you ask the missing, wouldn't you ask the missing, wouldn't you ask the spellcaster to spellcaster to spellcaster to >> find her? Hello. Bring her back. >> find her? Hello. Bring her back. >> find her? Hello. Bring her back. >> Bring her back. Yeah. Have her return >> Bring her back. Yeah. Have her return >> Bring her back. Yeah. Have her return home. Yeah. You got to kind of home. Yeah. You got to kind of home. Yeah. You got to kind of >> Here's my credit card. Find my wife. The >> Here's my credit card. Find my wife. The >> Here's my credit card. Find my wife. The mother of my children. No, that was not mother of my children. No, that was not mother of my children. No, that was not the spell or hex he needed. the spell or hex he needed. the spell or hex he needed. >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep that up. Uh >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep that up. Uh >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep that up. Uh if you're Larry in this case and he did if you're Larry in this case and he did if you're Larry in this case and he did not. not. not. >> So then Larry does not report to work on >> So then Larry does not report to work on >> So then Larry does not report to work on January 6th, 7th or 8th. Again, these January 6th, 7th or 8th. Again, these January 6th, 7th or 8th. Again, these are the three days in which this is very are the three days in which this is very are the three days in which this is very important, which was unusual for him. He important, which was unusual for him. He important, which was unusual for him. He did send his boss, this I think is so did send his boss, this I think is so did send his boss, this I think is so bizarre, screenshots of the text bizarre, screenshots of the text bizarre, screenshots of the text messages between him and his wife about messages between him and his wife about messages between him and his wife about Maya wanting a divorce. And Larry's boss Maya wanting a divorce. And Larry's boss Maya wanting a divorce. And Larry's boss later told police it was if Larry was later told police it was if Larry was later told police it was if Larry was unraveling. Oh, he was unraveling, you unraveling. Oh, he was unraveling, you unraveling. Oh, he was unraveling, you know.

know. know. >> Oh, there's no question. And I use the >> Oh, there's no question. And I use the >> Oh, there's no question. And I use the word insane. It probably shouldn't have word insane. It probably shouldn't have word insane. It probably shouldn't have because that's a legal term. Obviously, because that's a legal term. Obviously, because that's a legal term. Obviously, he wasn't legally insane, but there was he wasn't legally insane, but there was he wasn't legally insane, but there was a period of time where the defense tried a period of time where the defense tried a period of time where the defense tried to find him incompetent to stand trial to find him incompetent to stand trial to find him incompetent to stand trial as well. So, um the judge did find him as well. So, um the judge did find him as well. So, um the judge did find him competent. Competence is different from competent. Competence is different from competent. Competence is different from legal insanity. It's basically you have legal insanity. It's basically you have legal insanity. It's basically you have to be able to help with your legal to be able to help with your legal to be able to help with your legal defense. But um at least there was some defense. But um at least there was some defense. But um at least there was some discussion though of whether Larry was discussion though of whether Larry was discussion though of whether Larry was competent to even stand trial, which competent to even stand trial, which competent to even stand trial, which really goes to show how desperate and really goes to show how desperate and really goes to show how desperate and what his mental state was um at the what his mental state was um at the what his mental state was um at the time. time. time. Now, his boss said that on the ETH Now, his boss said that on the ETH Now, his boss said that on the ETH couldn't reach Larry, so he called couldn't reach Larry, so he called couldn't reach Larry, so he called Larry's father out of concern. Larry's Larry's father out of concern. Larry's Larry's father out of concern. Larry's father tried to call Larry and left father tried to call Larry and left father tried to call Larry and left voicemail saying, "Larry, please turn voicemail saying, "Larry, please turn voicemail saying, "Larry, please turn your phone on because Terry, your boss, your phone on because Terry, your boss, your phone on because Terry, your boss, is calling regarding your job." So, is calling regarding your job." So, is calling regarding your job." So, that's very suspicious looking. Unless, that's very suspicious looking. Unless, that's very suspicious looking. Unless, of course, of course, of course, he unless she really had disappeared and he unless she really had disappeared and he unless she really had disappeared and left and then he was frantic. But that's left and then he was frantic. But that's left and then he was frantic. But that's not what he was frantic about, right?

not what he was frantic about, right? not what he was frantic about, right? That's not what Larry was frantic about. That's not what Larry was frantic about. That's not what Larry was frantic about. So, no witnesses can really account for So, no witnesses can really account for So, no witnesses can really account for Larry's whereabouts on January 8th. and Larry's whereabouts on January 8th. and Larry's whereabouts on January 8th. and his own story has been quite his own story has been quite his own story has been quite inconsistent. As we said, we talked inconsistent. As we said, we talked inconsistent. As we said, we talked about this whole going to the beach. So, about this whole going to the beach. So, about this whole going to the beach. So, it's 6:45 a.m. He's seen leaving going it's 6:45 a.m. He's seen leaving going it's 6:45 a.m. He's seen leaving going to the beach, which of course he didn't. to the beach, which of course he didn't. to the beach, which of course he didn't. And then we see um you know, also there And then we see um you know, also there And then we see um you know, also there was that video of the SUV being backed was that video of the SUV being backed was that video of the SUV being backed in. That was the other day. So, there in. That was the other day. So, there in. That was the other day. So, there there's a lot going on here. So Larry there's a lot going on here. So Larry there's a lot going on here. So Larry leaves at 6:45 a.m. Doesn't return until leaves at 6:45 a.m. Doesn't return until leaves at 6:45 a.m. Doesn't return until 6:06 6:06 6:06 p.m. about 12 hours. No proof that he p.m. about 12 hours. No proof that he p.m. about 12 hours. No proof that he went to the beach. They checked the went to the beach. They checked the went to the beach. They checked the cameras for the parking lot. Didn't see. cameras for the parking lot. Didn't see. cameras for the parking lot. Didn't see. And for a period, this 11 12 hour And for a period, this 11 12 hour And for a period, this 11 12 hour period, his phone was turned off. Not period, his phone was turned off. Not period, his phone was turned off. Not only could you tell that forensically only could you tell that forensically only could you tell that forensically through digital analysis, but also your through digital analysis, but also your through digital analysis, but also your boss can't reach you and neither can boss can't reach you and neither can boss can't reach you and neither can your father. You know, that may not be your father. You know, that may not be your father. You know, that may not be digital forensic, but that's just, you digital forensic, but that's just, you digital forensic, but that's just, you know, that's know, that's know, that's confirmation. Larry has decided to confirmation. Larry has decided to confirmation. Larry has decided to disappear for a while. Then the car logs disappear for a while. Then the car logs disappear for a while. Then the car logs 445 miles that day. Where the heck did 445 miles that day. Where the heck did 445 miles that day. Where the heck did he go? So, there was a lot of he go? So, there was a lot of he go? So, there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that pointed to circumstantial evidence that pointed to circumstantial evidence that pointed to Larry, and Larry did not do himself any Larry, and Larry did not do himself any Larry, and Larry did not do himself any favors. So, he's finally arrested o in favors. So, he's finally arrested o in favors. So, he's finally arrested o in October of 2021 and October of 2021 and October of 2021 and that is where he sat until his trial and

that is where he sat until his trial and that is where he sat until his trial and he's still behind bars. He's never he's he's still behind bars. He's never he's he's still behind bars. He's never he's never been released. Now I want to talk never been released. Now I want to talk never been released. Now I want to talk about the interviews that he did from about the interviews that he did from about the interviews that he did from jail because when you talked about you jail because when you talked about you jail because when you talked about you know competency and I I understand know competency and I I understand know competency and I I understand there's competency at the time that uh there's competency at the time that uh there's competency at the time that uh the crime is committed and then to stand the crime is committed and then to stand the crime is committed and then to stand trial you know what he whether or not trial you know what he whether or not trial you know what he whether or not you liked his answers and they were not you liked his answers and they were not you liked his answers and they were not satisfying he did seem to comprehend the satisfying he did seem to comprehend the satisfying he did seem to comprehend the questions and answer them. So, he did questions and answer them. So, he did questions and answer them. So, he did two interviews with a local uh TV two interviews with a local uh TV two interviews with a local uh TV station in San Diego. One kind of over station in San Diego. One kind of over station in San Diego. One kind of over the phone and then the other one he sat the phone and then the other one he sat the phone and then the other one he sat there, you know, the cameras were there, you know, the cameras were there, you know, the cameras were allowed in jail. And it was so allowed in jail. And it was so allowed in jail. And it was so interesting. This was his condition. And interesting. This was his condition. And interesting. This was his condition. And this is the kookiest thing I've heard. this is the kookiest thing I've heard. this is the kookiest thing I've heard. He didn't want his entire face revealed He didn't want his entire face revealed He didn't want his entire face revealed because he didn't want because he didn't want because he didn't want prosecutors to be able to read anything prosecutors to be able to read anything prosecutors to be able to read anything into what he's saying. Oh my gosh. into what he's saying. Oh my gosh. into what he's saying. Oh my gosh. First, you should listen to what you're First, you should listen to what you're First, you should listen to what you're saying because you're not making any saying because you're not making any saying because you're not making any sense. So, the video is basically from sense. So, the video is basically from sense. So, the video is basically from the nose down, right? You don't see his the nose down, right? You don't see his the nose down, right? You don't see his eyes or the top of his head. And that's eyes or the top of his head. And that's eyes or the top of his head. And that's how the whole video interview is how the whole video interview is how the whole video interview is conducted. And he's saying, "Oh, I think conducted. And he's saying, "Oh, I think conducted. And he's saying, "Oh, I think my is alive. She's coming back." And my is alive. She's coming back." And my is alive. She's coming back." And then, you know, when he when he's asked then, you know, when he when he's asked then, you know, when he when he's asked the really tough questions, we'll answer the really tough questions, we'll answer the really tough questions, we'll answer that at trial. That was his answer that at trial. That was his answer that at trial. That was his answer standard. I can't believe that his standard. I can't believe that his standard. I can't believe that his attorneys let him do the interview. I attorneys let him do the interview. I attorneys let him do the interview. I mean, I'm glad they did for my purposes

mean, I'm glad they did for my purposes mean, I'm glad they did for my purposes and for our purposes to make our own and for our purposes to make our own and for our purposes to make our own decisions, but wasn't that kind of decisions, but wasn't that kind of decisions, but wasn't that kind of kooky? kooky? kooky? >> It was very strange. Uh certainly not a >> It was very strange. Uh certainly not a >> It was very strange. Uh certainly not a good idea. Um not typical for a criminal good idea. Um not typical for a criminal good idea. Um not typical for a criminal defendant in a murder case to give that defendant in a murder case to give that defendant in a murder case to give that type of interview. It's usually a bad type of interview. It's usually a bad type of interview. It's usually a bad idea. And look, I do tons of media. I'm idea. And look, I do tons of media. I'm idea. And look, I do tons of media. I'm all about it, but uh not in a particular all about it, but uh not in a particular all about it, but uh not in a particular case like that. And ultimately, you case like that. And ultimately, you case like that. And ultimately, you know, those statements know, those statements know, those statements could be used against him. and he never could be used against him. and he never could be used against him. and he never ended up testifying either. So, probably ended up testifying either. So, probably ended up testifying either. So, probably not a good idea. Um maybe they thought not a good idea. Um maybe they thought not a good idea. Um maybe they thought they had to sort of get out in front of they had to sort of get out in front of they had to sort of get out in front of the court of public opinion which the court of public opinion which the court of public opinion which clearly turned against him, but clearly turned against him, but clearly turned against him, but ultimately I think it was not credible ultimately I think it was not credible ultimately I think it was not credible and certainly not enough uh in terms of and certainly not enough uh in terms of and certainly not enough uh in terms of an explanation. Like you said, I mean an explanation. Like you said, I mean an explanation. Like you said, I mean the mileage itself was very very the mileage itself was very very the mileage itself was very very problematic. I was really surprised the problematic. I was really surprised the problematic. I was really surprised the car wasn't caught on some license plate car wasn't caught on some license plate car wasn't caught on some license plate reader somewhere. Obviously, that reader somewhere. Obviously, that reader somewhere. Obviously, that technology has uh developed more um technology has uh developed more um technology has uh developed more um since 2021, since 2021, since 2021, but I mean, you know, it it just didn't but I mean, you know, it it just didn't but I mean, you know, it it just didn't make sense. You know, from Chula Vista make sense. You know, from Chula Vista make sense. You know, from Chula Vista to the beach is not even 40 miles, much to the beach is not even 40 miles, much to the beach is not even 40 miles, much less I mean, it's it's like probably less I mean, it's it's like probably less I mean, it's it's like probably like somewhere between 10 and 20 miles.

like somewhere between 10 and 20 miles. like somewhere between 10 and 20 miles. So, um it didn't make a whole lot of So, um it didn't make a whole lot of So, um it didn't make a whole lot of sense. sense. sense. >> And no, he didn't help himself. >> And no, he didn't help himself. >> And no, he didn't help himself. Obviously, the only thing that I came to Obviously, the only thing that I came to Obviously, the only thing that I came to to feel about him is kind of how I felt to feel about him is kind of how I felt to feel about him is kind of how I felt the same way. He, you know, he's fairly the same way. He, you know, he's fairly the same way. He, you know, he's fairly he comes across, I should say, kind of he comes across, I should say, kind of he comes across, I should say, kind of mildmannered. Um, you know, he didn't mildmannered. Um, you know, he didn't mildmannered. Um, you know, he didn't like lose it during the interview, at like lose it during the interview, at like lose it during the interview, at least what we saw. But he once again least what we saw. But he once again least what we saw. But he once again comes across as someone ridiculously comes across as someone ridiculously comes across as someone ridiculously immature, like this, you know, just like immature, like this, you know, just like immature, like this, you know, just like this sad guy who didn't want to lose his this sad guy who didn't want to lose his this sad guy who didn't want to lose his wife and went to a spellcast. You know, wife and went to a spellcast. You know, wife and went to a spellcast. You know, that's the only thing that was that's the only thing that was that's the only thing that was reinforced for me was, you know, what a reinforced for me was, you know, what a reinforced for me was, you know, what a sad guy he was. sad guy he was. sad guy he was. >> Well, you said desperate. I think that's >> Well, you said desperate. I think that's >> Well, you said desperate. I think that's a great adjective. You know, you can a great adjective. You know, you can a great adjective. You know, you can maybe go so far as to say pathetic. And maybe go so far as to say pathetic. And maybe go so far as to say pathetic. And I I would be surprised with I I would be surprised with I I would be surprised with >> any man or woman would want to be with >> any man or woman would want to be with >> any man or woman would want to be with someone like this that's just sort of someone like this that's just sort of someone like this that's just sort of begging you to stay and then not really begging you to stay and then not really begging you to stay and then not really treating you well. So, and it really treating you well. So, and it really treating you well. So, and it really showed during the interviews and the the showed during the interviews and the the showed during the interviews and the the court appearances. Obviously, I wish the court appearances. Obviously, I wish the court appearances. Obviously, I wish the trial was televised. It was not, trial was televised. It was not, trial was televised. It was not, unfortunately, which is a which is a unfortunately, which is a which is a unfortunately, which is a which is a bummer. Most of the time, California, bummer. Most of the time, California, bummer. Most of the time, California, these trials can be televised. The judge these trials can be televised. The judge these trials can be televised. The judge in this particular case put the kibash in this particular case put the kibash in this particular case put the kibash on it. Um, it is usually within the on it. Um, it is usually within the on it. Um, it is usually within the discretion of the trial court, but I discretion of the trial court, but I discretion of the trial court, but I think we would have all seen a lot more think we would have all seen a lot more think we would have all seen a lot more of how Larry really portrayed himself of how Larry really portrayed himself of how Larry really portrayed himself even though he didn't testify.

even though he didn't testify. even though he didn't testify. >> Yeah. And I I find it interesting that >> Yeah. And I I find it interesting that >> Yeah. And I I find it interesting that there were so many postponements that, there were so many postponements that, there were so many postponements that, you know, this happened in 2021. He gets you know, this happened in 2021. He gets you know, this happened in 2021. He gets arrested 9 months later, but trial did arrested 9 months later, but trial did arrested 9 months later, but trial did not begin until May of 2026. There was a not begin until May of 2026. There was a not begin until May of 2026. There was a rather lengthy preliminary hearing to rather lengthy preliminary hearing to rather lengthy preliminary hearing to decide if there was enough evidence to decide if there was enough evidence to decide if there was enough evidence to go forward. And the judge did decide go forward. And the judge did decide go forward. And the judge did decide that. So during that preliminary that. So during that preliminary that. So during that preliminary hearing, we got a lot more details about hearing, we got a lot more details about hearing, we got a lot more details about what was going on. And that was kind of what was going on. And that was kind of what was going on. And that was kind of helpful. Um, I just I don't understand helpful. Um, I just I don't understand helpful. Um, I just I don't understand why, especially if you're being held, why, especially if you're being held, why, especially if you're being held, you would wait so long for your trial. you would wait so long for your trial. you would wait so long for your trial. Wouldn't you want your trial sooner with Wouldn't you want your trial sooner with Wouldn't you want your trial sooner with the, you know, cuz this guy clearly the, you know, cuz this guy clearly the, you know, cuz this guy clearly doesn't deal in reality. Um, would have doesn't deal in reality. Um, would have doesn't deal in reality. Um, would have been thinking, "Oh, I'm going to get been thinking, "Oh, I'm going to get been thinking, "Oh, I'm going to get out, so let's get to the trial sooner out, so let's get to the trial sooner out, so let's get to the trial sooner rather than later cuz I'm just sitting rather than later cuz I'm just sitting rather than later cuz I'm just sitting here rotting." here rotting." here rotting." >> I think part of it was the competence >> I think part of it was the competence >> I think part of it was the competence issue. The other was obviously the issue. The other was obviously the issue. The other was obviously the prelim took a long time and frankly I prelim took a long time and frankly I prelim took a long time and frankly I think the defense needed time to kind of think the defense needed time to kind of think the defense needed time to kind of prepare the case. I think the prepare the case. I think the prepare the case. I think the prosecution had more than 60 witnesses.

prosecution had more than 60 witnesses. prosecution had more than 60 witnesses. So there was a lot to go through. You So there was a lot to go through. You So there was a lot to go through. You know again I I don't think the result know again I I don't think the result know again I I don't think the result would have been different whether it was would have been different whether it was would have been different whether it was quick or fast. It is the defendant's quick or fast. It is the defendant's quick or fast. It is the defendant's right to a speedy trial and more often right to a speedy trial and more often right to a speedy trial and more often than not when the defense asked for more than not when the defense asked for more than not when the defense asked for more time saying they need to prepare their time saying they need to prepare their time saying they need to prepare their case the judge grants that motion case the judge grants that motion case the judge grants that motion otherwise it's an appellet issue otherwise it's an appellet issue otherwise it's an appellet issue potentially down the road. So finally, potentially down the road. So finally, potentially down the road. So finally, opening statements began on May 18th. opening statements began on May 18th. opening statements began on May 18th. Again, a circumstantial Again, a circumstantial Again, a circumstantial evidence case. evidence case. evidence case. And you know, the motive was Maya And you know, the motive was Maya And you know, the motive was Maya wanting to get out. And what was really wanting to get out. And what was really wanting to get out. And what was really important was that 3 days before she important was that 3 days before she important was that 3 days before she went missing, Maya texted Larry. So went missing, Maya texted Larry. So went missing, Maya texted Larry. So these are her words. Quote, "I'm filing these are her words. Quote, "I'm filing these are her words. Quote, "I'm filing for divorce whether you like it or not." for divorce whether you like it or not." for divorce whether you like it or not." So, you know, the aunt can say this, the So, you know, the aunt can say this, the So, you know, the aunt can say this, the sister can say that. Maya said it and I sister can say that. Maya said it and I sister can say that. Maya said it and I think that that was very powerful. So think that that was very powerful. So think that that was very powerful. So Larry's defense was prevented from Larry's defense was prevented from Larry's defense was prevented from presenting a third party culpability presenting a third party culpability presenting a third party culpability defense. That's always the look over defense. That's always the look over defense. That's always the look over there.

there. there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Defense. No. No. Look over there. >> Defense. No. No. Look over there. >> Defense. No. No. Look over there. Something's happening there. But there Something's happening there. But there Something's happening there. But there was one that I thought was, you know, was one that I thought was, you know, was one that I thought was, you know, and they did try to explore it was could and they did try to explore it was could and they did try to explore it was could could the man she was having an affair could the man she was having an affair could the man she was having an affair with have anything to do with this? And with have anything to do with this? And with have anything to do with this? And the defense claimed the defense claimed the defense claimed the defense claimed the defense claimed the defense claimed that he was not investigated as that he was not investigated as that he was not investigated as thoroughly, but he had the best alibi thoroughly, but he had the best alibi thoroughly, but he had the best alibi in the world. He was at the hospital in the world. He was at the hospital in the world. He was at the hospital with his wife who was delivering their with his wife who was delivering their with his wife who was delivering their first child. first child. first child. >> Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't get better than >> Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't get better than >> Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't get better than that, right? Cameras there are in the that, right? Cameras there are in the that, right? Cameras there are in the hospital. So, um, yeah, not again, hospital. So, um, yeah, not again, hospital. So, um, yeah, not again, there's no real plausible alternate there's no real plausible alternate there's no real plausible alternate legal theory in this case. legal theory in this case. legal theory in this case. >> That's the problem the defense had. >> That's the problem the defense had. >> That's the problem the defense had. >> So, Maya's coworker, >> So, Maya's coworker, >> So, Maya's coworker, her lover, testified. Jamie Leair, he her lover, testified. Jamie Leair, he her lover, testified. Jamie Leair, he said that their relationship started said that their relationship started said that their relationship started just as friends, then it became sexual. just as friends, then it became sexual. just as friends, then it became sexual. Now, he was married and expecting a Now, he was married and expecting a Now, he was married and expecting a baby, and it's my understanding based on baby, and it's my understanding based on baby, and it's my understanding based on the [clears throat] references in news the [clears throat] references in news the [clears throat] references in news media. I don't think he's still with his media. I don't think he's still with his media. I don't think he's still with his wife. Uh, understandably so. You know, wife. Uh, understandably so. You know, wife. Uh, understandably so. You know, you're delivering uh you're delivering you're delivering uh you're delivering you're delivering uh you're delivering your baby on the same day you find out your baby on the same day you find out your baby on the same day you find out that your husband has been having an that your husband has been having an that your husband has been having an affair and the woman is missing. That is affair and the woman is missing. That is affair and the woman is missing. That is way too much stress for any new mom.

way too much stress for any new mom. way too much stress for any new mom. It's right. I can't handle that. It's right. I can't handle that. It's right. I can't handle that. >> I can't even imagine. Imagine the >> I can't even imagine. Imagine the >> I can't even imagine. Imagine the betrayal and then the embarrassment, betrayal and then the embarrassment, betrayal and then the embarrassment, right? The entire world knows that your right? The entire world knows that your right? The entire world knows that your husband, the father of your child is husband, the father of your child is husband, the father of your child is having an affair with a woman that's having an affair with a woman that's having an affair with a woman that's missing or dead. I mean, just Yeah. I missing or dead. I mean, just Yeah. I missing or dead. I mean, just Yeah. I mean, mean, mean, >> it's too much. It's too much. >> it's too much. It's too much. >> it's too much. It's too much. >> Too much for any one person to handle. >> Too much for any one person to handle. >> Too much for any one person to handle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, the jury deliberated for 5 hours and >> So, the jury deliberated for 5 hours and >> So, the jury deliberated for 5 hours and as we said they found him guilty. Juror as we said they found him guilty. Juror as we said they found him guilty. Juror number three, who did the interview with number three, who did the interview with number three, who did the interview with the CBS station in San Diego said, um, the CBS station in San Diego said, um, the CBS station in San Diego said, um, this is what popped for her, that it was this is what popped for her, that it was this is what popped for her, that it was very suspicious that Mia had contacted a very suspicious that Mia had contacted a very suspicious that Mia had contacted a divorce attorney on the day she divorce attorney on the day she divorce attorney on the day she disappeared. and also, you know, disappeared. and also, you know, disappeared. and also, you know, thought, okay, thought, okay, thought, okay, she has to be in the desert. And and she has to be in the desert. And and she has to be in the desert. And and again, you know, this is just again, you know, this is just again, you know, this is just speculation, but that's from the juror's speculation, but that's from the juror's speculation, but that's from the juror's point of view. So that's what what point of view. So that's what what point of view. So that's what what bothered them. There were multiple bothered them. There were multiple bothered them. There were multiple things that bothered them. So even things that bothered them. So even things that bothered them. So even though he's been convicted, he hasn't though he's been convicted, he hasn't though he's been convicted, he hasn't been sentenced yet. He has a weapons been sentenced yet. He has a weapons been sentenced yet. He has a weapons charge that he has to return to court on charge that he has to return to court on charge that he has to return to court on uh July 20th for. And the search for uh July 20th for. And the search for uh July 20th for. And the search for Maya's body continues and her loved ones Maya's body continues and her loved ones Maya's body continues and her loved ones are hoping are hoping are hoping and still working really hard to find and still working really hard to find and still working really hard to find her. So this case, as far as they are her. So this case, as far as they are her. So this case, as far as they are concerned, is not closed. It is time for concerned, is not closed. It is time for concerned, is not closed. It is time for our comment section. These are the crime our comment section. These are the crime our comment section. These are the crime cases that you all are talking about on cases that you all are talking about on cases that you all are talking about on social media. And here's our producer, social media. And here's our producer, social media. And here's our producer, Will Updike. Hey, Will. How are you?

Will Updike. Hey, Will. How are you? Will Updike. Hey, Will. How are you? >> Good. How's it going? >> Good. How's it going? >> Good. How's it going? >> Super. >> Super. >> Super. >> Nema. Great to see you. >> Nema. Great to see you. >> Nema. Great to see you. >> Will love seeing you too. Great being on >> Will love seeing you too. Great being on >> Will love seeing you too. Great being on as always. as always. as always. >> All right, so uh this week we have a >> All right, so uh this week we have a >> All right, so uh this week we have a case of an unlikely conspirator. This case of an unlikely conspirator. This case of an unlikely conspirator. This case comes out of Beltsville, Maryland, case comes out of Beltsville, Maryland, case comes out of Beltsville, Maryland, where a thief attempted to rob a bank where a thief attempted to rob a bank where a thief attempted to rob a bank with the help of a stolen cat. Um not with the help of a stolen cat. Um not with the help of a stolen cat. Um not one that you hear every day. Uh one that you hear every day. Uh one that you hear every day. Uh according to a local pet store there, according to a local pet store there, according to a local pet store there, Pet Supplies Plus, this whole scheme, uh Pet Supplies Plus, this whole scheme, uh Pet Supplies Plus, this whole scheme, uh you know, started on July 13th when a you know, started on July 13th when a you know, started on July 13th when a man stole a three-month-old tuxedo man stole a three-month-old tuxedo man stole a three-month-old tuxedo kitten named Magnolia. Now, kitten named Magnolia. Now, kitten named Magnolia. Now, >> what is a tuxedo kitten? I feel like an >> what is a tuxedo kitten? I feel like an >> what is a tuxedo kitten? I feel like an idiot. idiot. idiot. >> Uh, a tuxedo kitten is like they're >> Uh, a tuxedo kitten is like they're >> Uh, a tuxedo kitten is like they're primarily black with uh sort of uh some primarily black with uh sort of uh some primarily black with uh sort of uh some white on their, you know, face and neck white on their, you know, face and neck white on their, you know, face and neck and and chest. So, it looks like a white and and chest. So, it looks like a white and and chest. So, it looks like a white collar shirt uh under the tuxedo. Yeah. collar shirt uh under the tuxedo. Yeah. collar shirt uh under the tuxedo. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's very cute. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's very cute. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. It's very cute. If you're a cat person, you know, a If you're a cat person, you know, a If you're a cat person, you know, a tuxedo cat. Now, some employees of this tuxedo cat. Now, some employees of this tuxedo cat. Now, some employees of this pet supply store actually said that this pet supply store actually said that this pet supply store actually said that this guy might have been milling around for a guy might have been milling around for a guy might have been milling around for a few weeks prior to this. And uh it few weeks prior to this. And uh it few weeks prior to this. And uh it seemed like this whole time he kind of seemed like this whole time he kind of seemed like this whole time he kind of had an eye for Magnolia. But apparently had an eye for Magnolia. But apparently had an eye for Magnolia. But apparently he wasn't looking to adopt this cat. He he wasn't looking to adopt this cat. He he wasn't looking to adopt this cat. He was merely looking for a window of was merely looking for a window of was merely looking for a window of opportunity, which allegedly came around opportunity, which allegedly came around opportunity, which allegedly came around 10:40 a.m. that morning of July 13th.

10:40 a.m. that morning of July 13th. 10:40 a.m. that morning of July 13th. Now, they say that after taking Now, they say that after taking Now, they say that after taking Magnolia, the reported thief walked to a Magnolia, the reported thief walked to a Magnolia, the reported thief walked to a nearby PNC bank for this alleged robbery nearby PNC bank for this alleged robbery nearby PNC bank for this alleged robbery attempt. Now, uh, according to media attempt. Now, uh, according to media attempt. Now, uh, according to media outlets who haven't yet named this outlets who haven't yet named this outlets who haven't yet named this suspect, the reported thief had a very suspect, the reported thief had a very suspect, the reported thief had a very interesting sort of method for this interesting sort of method for this interesting sort of method for this alleged robbery. Uh, according to the alleged robbery. Uh, according to the alleged robbery. Uh, according to the Prince George County Police Department, Prince George County Police Department, Prince George County Police Department, once inside the bank, uh, the suspect once inside the bank, uh, the suspect once inside the bank, uh, the suspect asked the bank manager to hold the cat. asked the bank manager to hold the cat. asked the bank manager to hold the cat. Uh, and while the manager is occupied, Uh, and while the manager is occupied, Uh, and while the manager is occupied, uh, the wouldbe robber allegedly wrote a uh, the wouldbe robber allegedly wrote a uh, the wouldbe robber allegedly wrote a note to the teller demanding they hand note to the teller demanding they hand note to the teller demanding they hand over all the cash. Got to be honest, not over all the cash. Got to be honest, not over all the cash. Got to be honest, not one I've heard before. also very one I've heard before. also very one I've heard before. also very surprised that the bank manager was surprised that the bank manager was surprised that the bank manager was like, "Yeah, sure. I'll hold the cat, like, "Yeah, sure. I'll hold the cat, like, "Yeah, sure. I'll hold the cat, [laughter] I guess." Because that's my [laughter] I guess." Because that's my [laughter] I guess." Because that's my job, too, as the bank manager. Um, so we job, too, as the bank manager. Um, so we job, too, as the bank manager. Um, so we don't have a whole lot of details on on don't have a whole lot of details on on don't have a whole lot of details on on how this uh supposed robbery was like how this uh supposed robbery was like how this uh supposed robbery was like eventually busted up, but police say eventually busted up, but police say eventually busted up, but police say this stickup was unsuccessful and the this stickup was unsuccessful and the this stickup was unsuccessful and the man was arrested at the scene. Now, man was arrested at the scene. Now, man was arrested at the scene. Now, luckily, Magnolia also discovered safe luckily, Magnolia also discovered safe luckily, Magnolia also discovered safe in the bank manager's office, so he he in the bank manager's office, so he he in the bank manager's office, so he he didn't continue holding her the whole didn't continue holding her the whole didn't continue holding her the whole time, but uh she did stay there around time, but uh she did stay there around time, but uh she did stay there around the bank. Now, some of this was sort of the bank. Now, some of this was sort of the bank. Now, some of this was sort of captured on security footage where the captured on security footage where the captured on security footage where the sus where the suspect, who was wearing a sus where the suspect, who was wearing a sus where the suspect, who was wearing a light colored shirt and a black beanie, light colored shirt and a black beanie, light colored shirt and a black beanie, is seen running out of this Pet Supplies is seen running out of this Pet Supplies is seen running out of this Pet Supplies Plus store carrying the black and white Plus store carrying the black and white Plus store carrying the black and white cat before entering this bank that's cat before entering this bank that's cat before entering this bank that's actually in the same shopping center. Uh actually in the same shopping center. Uh actually in the same shopping center. Uh so uh after hearing about this so uh after hearing about this so uh after hearing about this catnapping uh Stephanie Stillich uh catnapping uh Stephanie Stillich uh catnapping uh Stephanie Stillich uh she's with the adoption agency

she's with the adoption agency she's with the adoption agency Beltsville Community Cats who kind of Beltsville Community Cats who kind of Beltsville Community Cats who kind of run the cat uh sort of adoption thing run the cat uh sort of adoption thing run the cat uh sort of adoption thing outside of this pet store. So she hears outside of this pet store. So she hears outside of this pet store. So she hears about this catnapping. Uh she rushes about this catnapping. Uh she rushes about this catnapping. Uh she rushes over to the pet store to see what over to the pet store to see what over to the pet store to see what happened to Magnolia. And as she happened to Magnolia. And as she happened to Magnolia. And as she arrives, she sees all these cop cars arrives, she sees all these cop cars arrives, she sees all these cop cars which are obviously there for the bank which are obviously there for the bank which are obviously there for the bank robbery. Uh but she has no idea. robbery. Uh but she has no idea. robbery. Uh but she has no idea. >> She thinks it's for the catnapping. >> She thinks it's for the catnapping. >> She thinks it's for the catnapping. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. She has no idea that that's going >> Yeah. She has no idea that that's going >> Yeah. She has no idea that that's going on. So she thinks, "Wow, this is a heck on. So she thinks, "Wow, this is a heck on. So she thinks, "Wow, this is a heck of a response for a stolen cat." Uh, of a response for a stolen cat." Uh, of a response for a stolen cat." Uh, which Yeah, they really which Yeah, they really which Yeah, they really >> the police department. >> the police department. >> the police department. >> Exactly. They really gave it their all >> Exactly. They really gave it their all >> Exactly. They really gave it their all there. But eventually she realizes that there. But eventually she realizes that there. But eventually she realizes that these, you know, the authorities are all these, you know, the authorities are all these, you know, the authorities are all going into this bank. And at some point going into this bank. And at some point going into this bank. And at some point they inform her that yes, there is in they inform her that yes, there is in they inform her that yes, there is in fact a cat inside the bank. Now, while fact a cat inside the bank. Now, while fact a cat inside the bank. Now, while this suspect is behind bars, Magnolia is this suspect is behind bars, Magnolia is this suspect is behind bars, Magnolia is still looking for her forever home now still looking for her forever home now still looking for her forever home now that her life of crime is behind her. that her life of crime is behind her. that her life of crime is behind her. and Beltsville Community Cats promises and Beltsville Community Cats promises and Beltsville Community Cats promises that from now on the only thing she'll that from now on the only thing she'll that from now on the only thing she'll be stealing are treats, toys, and be stealing are treats, toys, and be stealing are treats, toys, and cuddles. So, let's hope that both uh cuddles. So, let's hope that both uh cuddles. So, let's hope that both uh alleged conspira conspirators here learn alleged conspira conspirators here learn alleged conspira conspirators here learn their lesson after the feline felony. Uh their lesson after the feline felony. Uh their lesson after the feline felony. Uh I thought this one was just wild. I I thought this one was just wild. I I thought this one was just wild. I don't know why we haven't don't have the don't know why we haven't don't have the don't know why we haven't don't have the suspect named yet. Uh this only happened suspect named yet. Uh this only happened suspect named yet. Uh this only happened a couple of days ago. I I don't know how a couple of days ago. I I don't know how a couple of days ago. I I don't know how they do things there uh in in Maryland they do things there uh in in Maryland they do things there uh in in Maryland with uh regards to releasing the names with uh regards to releasing the names with uh regards to releasing the names of people, but I I mean, have you ever of people, but I I mean, have you ever of people, but I I mean, have you ever heard of a a robbery like this with a heard of a a robbery like this with a heard of a a robbery like this with a with a allegedly a stolen animal with a allegedly a stolen animal with a allegedly a stolen animal involved?

involved? involved? >> Well, a cat like a kitten. That's a >> Well, a cat like a kitten. That's a >> Well, a cat like a kitten. That's a crazy thing. Like bring in a big dog, crazy thing. Like bring in a big dog, crazy thing. Like bring in a big dog, maybe. [laughter] maybe. [laughter] maybe. [laughter] >> That makes sense. Yeah. I would also >> That makes sense. Yeah. I would also >> That makes sense. Yeah. I would also think think think >> a kitten makes >> a kitten makes >> a kitten makes >> I also would think maybe you'd throw the >> I also would think maybe you'd throw the >> I also would think maybe you'd throw the cat or something like you'd use the cat cat or something like you'd use the cat cat or something like you'd use the cat as more of a weapon. Uh [laughter] as more of a weapon. Uh [laughter] as more of a weapon. Uh [laughter] >> yeah, you think there's some sort of cat >> yeah, you think there's some sort of cat >> yeah, you think there's some sort of cat burglar. You send the cat in first. burglar. You send the cat in first. burglar. You send the cat in first. >> Cat burglar, >> Cat burglar, >> Cat burglar, >> you know. [clears throat] >> you know. [clears throat] >> you know. [clears throat] [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] But look, bank robbery, even with a But look, bank robbery, even with a But look, bank robbery, even with a note, because these are FDIC insured, note, because these are FDIC insured, note, because these are FDIC insured, these end up being federal cases. So, these end up being federal cases. So, these end up being federal cases. So, it's going to be filed, usually it's it's going to be filed, usually it's it's going to be filed, usually it's filed by the Department of Justice, US filed by the Department of Justice, US filed by the Department of Justice, US Attorney's Office there in Maryland. So, Attorney's Office there in Maryland. So, Attorney's Office there in Maryland. So, we'll probably know pretty soon. we'll probably know pretty soon. we'll probably know pretty soon. >> And like the the lack of a weapon, I >> And like the the lack of a weapon, I >> And like the the lack of a weapon, I mean, does that does does that make it mean, does that does does that make it mean, does that does does that make it any less serious? It's still like a any less serious? It's still like a any less serious? It's still like a pretty big deal, right? pretty big deal, right? pretty big deal, right? >> Yeah, it's still a federal crime. >> Yeah, it's still a federal crime. >> Yeah, it's still a federal crime. Obviously, the weapons under the Obviously, the weapons under the Obviously, the weapons under the sentencing guidelines that tend to be sentencing guidelines that tend to be sentencing guidelines that tend to be enhancements, but even though that's enhancements, but even though that's enhancements, but even though that's robbery because, you know, you're you're robbery because, you know, you're you're robbery because, you know, you're you're making a threat and you're using that making a threat and you're using that making a threat and you're using that threat to steal money from the bank. So, threat to steal money from the bank. So, threat to steal money from the bank. So, it is bank robbery. Even if you don't it is bank robbery. Even if you don't it is bank robbery. Even if you don't have a gun, even if you're not using the have a gun, even if you're not using the have a gun, even if you're not using the cat as a weapon, that note by itself is cat as a weapon, that note by itself is cat as a weapon, that note by itself is sufficient.

sufficient. sufficient. >> Rough, rough, tough to get out of. Uh, >> Rough, rough, tough to get out of. Uh, >> Rough, rough, tough to get out of. Uh, we got a lot of comments on this one. we got a lot of comments on this one. we got a lot of comments on this one. Mark A said, "Are you sure Magnolia Mark A said, "Are you sure Magnolia Mark A said, "Are you sure Magnolia didn't give the suspect the idea?" Who didn't give the suspect the idea?" Who didn't give the suspect the idea?" Who knows? Cats are pretty cats are pretty knows? Cats are pretty cats are pretty knows? Cats are pretty cats are pretty mischievous. This guy was allegedly mischievous. This guy was allegedly mischievous. This guy was allegedly coming there a bunch. I mean, it could coming there a bunch. I mean, it could coming there a bunch. I mean, it could have been unfor unfurling this plan for have been unfor unfurling this plan for have been unfor unfurling this plan for him. Uh, George P said he thought it was him. Uh, George P said he thought it was him. Uh, George P said he thought it was the perfect crime. the perfect crime. the perfect crime. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, and Nemo already got to >> Okay. Okay. Uh, and Nemo already got to >> Okay. Okay. Uh, and Nemo already got to this one first, but Felix M said, "Seems this one first, but Felix M said, "Seems this one first, but Felix M said, "Seems like he took the title of catburglar like he took the title of catburglar like he took the title of catburglar literally. [laughter] literally. [laughter] literally. [laughter] Uh, and then I'm going to end this one Uh, and then I'm going to end this one Uh, and then I'm going to end this one on just a just a a nice comment from Pat on just a just a a nice comment from Pat on just a just a a nice comment from Pat K who said, "Magnolia should still be K who said, "Magnolia should still be K who said, "Magnolia should still be locked up for stealing our hearts." locked up for stealing our hearts." locked up for stealing our hearts." >> Oh, little [laughter] Magnolia. >> Oh, little [laughter] Magnolia. >> Oh, little [laughter] Magnolia. I would think the bank manager should I would think the bank manager should I would think the bank manager should adopt Magnolia adopt Magnolia adopt Magnolia >> or the teller or somebody. We'll see >> or the teller or somebody. We'll see >> or the teller or somebody. We'll see what happens with that. But according to what happens with that. But according to what happens with that. But according to their Facebook post, uh, little Magnolia their Facebook post, uh, little Magnolia their Facebook post, uh, little Magnolia has not been adopted yet, but we'll see has not been adopted yet, but we'll see has not been adopted yet, but we'll see what happens with that. Uh, but that is what happens with that. Uh, but that is what happens with that. Uh, but that is going to do it for this week's comment going to do it for this week's comment going to do it for this week's comment section. Want to thank everybody who section. Want to thank everybody who section. Want to thank everybody who sent those in. You can of course do that sent those in. You can of course do that sent those in. You can of course do that over on our YouTube community page and over on our YouTube community page and over on our YouTube community page and you can reach out to us across all you can reach out to us across all you can reach out to us across all social media at any time at my true social media at any time at my true social media at any time at my true crime news. Uh but that'll do it for me.

crime news. Uh but that'll do it for me. crime news. Uh but that'll do it for me. Until next week, don't do crime. Nema, Until next week, don't do crime. Nema, Until next week, don't do crime. Nema, it's just been wonderful to have you on it's just been wonderful to have you on it's just been wonderful to have you on the program. It's really been fun. Um I the program. It's really been fun. Um I the program. It's really been fun. Um I just appreciate your um approach. You just appreciate your um approach. You just appreciate your um approach. You know, you're a hardcore tough criminal know, you're a hardcore tough criminal know, you're a hardcore tough criminal former prosecutor, defense attorney, all former prosecutor, defense attorney, all former prosecutor, defense attorney, all that stuff. so well, you know, prepared that stuff. so well, you know, prepared that stuff. so well, you know, prepared and educated, but you're fun. [laughter] and educated, but you're fun. [laughter] and educated, but you're fun. [laughter] >> Thank you. I love it. And you're fun. >> Thank you. I love it. And you're fun. >> Thank you. I love it. And you're fun. Anna, so good to be on with you and Anna, so good to be on with you and Anna, so good to be on with you and Will. Such a pleasure. Will. Such a pleasure. Will. Such a pleasure. >> Oh, so cool. So, listen. Um, Nema, I >> Oh, so cool. So, listen. Um, Nema, I >> Oh, so cool. So, listen. Um, Nema, I know you're new to the podcast, but know you're new to the podcast, but know you're new to the podcast, but obviously not to True Crime News, the obviously not to True Crime News, the obviously not to True Crime News, the television show on which you appeared television show on which you appeared television show on which you appeared many times. Where can people find you many times. Where can people find you many times. Where can people find you and follow you? Tell them I'm on all and follow you? Tell them I'm on all and follow you? Tell them I'm on all social media platforms. X, Facebook, social media platforms. X, Facebook, social media platforms. X, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok, you name LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok, you name LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok, you name it. Nema Romani. Tough one to spell. N E it. Nema Romani. Tough one to spell. N E it. Nema Romani. Tough one to spell. N E A M A. Last name R A H M A N I. And my A M A. Last name R A H M A N I. And my A M A. Last name R A H M A N I. And my firm is West Coast Triales. Give us a firm is West Coast Triales. Give us a firm is West Coast Triales. Give us a follow. Love talking about true crime.

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