Mom who claimed twins died from vaccines charged with murder; Stabbing victim’s husband lawyers up

Hello and welcome to the sidebar Hello and welcome to the sidebar presented by True Crime News taking you presented by True Crime News taking you presented by True Crime News taking you inside the courtrooms of high profile inside the courtrooms of high profile inside the courtrooms of high profile and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County prosecutor for over a decade. We are prosecutor for over a decade. We are prosecutor for over a decade. We are recording this on Wednesday, July 15th, recording this on Wednesday, July 15th, recording this on Wednesday, July 15th, 2026. In this week's episode, the 2026. In this week's episode, the 2026. In this week's episode, the approaching trial of Lindsey Clancy, the approaching trial of Lindsey Clancy, the approaching trial of Lindsey Clancy, the Massachusetts mother who faces murder Massachusetts mother who faces murder Massachusetts mother who faces murder charges for the deaths of her three charges for the deaths of her three charges for the deaths of her three children. Plus, the New Jersey husband children. Plus, the New Jersey husband children. Plus, the New Jersey husband of a murder victim lawyers up as the of a murder victim lawyers up as the of a murder victim lawyers up as the investigation into the fatal stabbing of investigation into the fatal stabbing of investigation into the fatal stabbing of his wife continues. But first, an Idaho his wife continues. But first, an Idaho his wife continues. But first, an Idaho mother is charged with the murders of mother is charged with the murders of mother is charged with the murders of her twins after claiming that vaccines her twins after claiming that vaccines her twins after claiming that vaccines claimed the twin toddlers' lives. Today, claimed the twin toddlers' lives. Today, claimed the twin toddlers' lives. Today, we are joined by Sam Bassett, a criminal we are joined by Sam Bassett, a criminal we are joined by Sam Bassett, a criminal defense attorney and legal analyst you defense attorney and legal analyst you defense attorney and legal analyst you can catch on Court TV and many other can catch on Court TV and many other can catch on Court TV and many other outlets. Sam, welcome. How are you outlets. Sam, welcome. How are you outlets. Sam, welcome. How are you doing, my friend? I'm good. Good. doing, my friend? I'm good. Good. doing, my friend? I'm good. Good. >> Getting a little rain here in Austin, >> Getting a little rain here in Austin, >> Getting a little rain here in Austin, but otherwise doing great. but otherwise doing great. but otherwise doing great. >> Glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear and >> Glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear and >> Glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear and I'm also looking forward to your I'm also looking forward to your I'm also looking forward to your thoughts because you are a practicing thoughts because you are a practicing thoughts because you are a practicing criminal defense attorney and some of criminal defense attorney and some of criminal defense attorney and some of these cases though we're not going to these cases though we're not going to these cases though we're not going to really get into the weeds of them, I really get into the weeds of them, I really get into the weeds of them, I think they do need a unique think they do need a unique think they do need a unique practitioners' mind to kind of help us practitioners' mind to kind of help us practitioners' mind to kind of help us unwind some of the issues at play here.

unwind some of the issues at play here. unwind some of the issues at play here. So, let's first jump in out of Payette, So, let's first jump in out of Payette, So, let's first jump in out of Payette, Idaho. A mother who claimed her twin Idaho. A mother who claimed her twin Idaho. A mother who claimed her twin toddlers died from vaccines has been toddlers died from vaccines has been toddlers died from vaccines has been charged with killing them. charged with killing them. charged with killing them. Andrea Shaw faces two counts of murder Andrea Shaw faces two counts of murder Andrea Shaw faces two counts of murder in the deaths of her 18-month-old twins, in the deaths of her 18-month-old twins, in the deaths of her 18-month-old twins, Dallas and Tyson, after an investigation Dallas and Tyson, after an investigation Dallas and Tyson, after an investigation concluded that the mother suffocated concluded that the mother suffocated concluded that the mother suffocated them. Shaw, however, denies the them. Shaw, however, denies the them. Shaw, however, denies the allegations and has leaned heavily into allegations and has leaned heavily into allegations and has leaned heavily into the anti-vaccination movement even the anti-vaccination movement even the anti-vaccination movement even appearing on a podcast produced by the appearing on a podcast produced by the appearing on a podcast produced by the Children's Health Defense, an anti-vax Children's Health Defense, an anti-vax Children's Health Defense, an anti-vax group that with ties to Robert F. group that with ties to Robert F. group that with ties to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Shaw and her husband called Kennedy Jr. Shaw and her husband called Kennedy Jr. Shaw and her husband called authorities after finding Dallas and authorities after finding Dallas and authorities after finding Dallas and Tyson lying in their bed face down with Tyson lying in their bed face down with Tyson lying in their bed face down with both children cold to the touch. both children cold to the touch. both children cold to the touch. According to Shaw, authorities According to Shaw, authorities According to Shaw, authorities immediately focused in on the mother and immediately focused in on the mother and immediately focused in on the mother and her husband despite the couple her husband despite the couple her husband despite the couple previously warning doctors about the previously warning doctors about the previously warning doctors about the twins adverse reactions to routine twins adverse reactions to routine twins adverse reactions to routine hepatitis A, DTaP, and flu vaccines. hepatitis A, DTaP, and flu vaccines. hepatitis A, DTaP, and flu vaccines. Police arrested Shaw more than a year Police arrested Shaw more than a year Police arrested Shaw more than a year after the twins death, about 5 days after the twins death, about 5 days after the twins death, about 5 days after the mother gave birth to another after the mother gave birth to another after the mother gave birth to another child. Shaw's defense sought to lower child. Shaw's defense sought to lower child. Shaw's defense sought to lower her $2 million bond 100,000 in order to her $2 million bond 100,000 in order to her $2 million bond 100,000 in order to reunite the mother with her newborn, but reunite the mother with her newborn, but reunite the mother with her newborn, but a judge revoked her bond entirely a judge revoked her bond entirely a judge revoked her bond entirely finding that Shaw posed a risk to her finding that Shaw posed a risk to her finding that Shaw posed a risk to her infant even if she wasn't a risk to the infant even if she wasn't a risk to the infant even if she wasn't a risk to the community at large. Shaw is also engaged community at large. Shaw is also engaged community at large. Shaw is also engaged in a lawsuit filed by the Children's in a lawsuit filed by the Children's in a lawsuit filed by the Children's Health Defense against the American Health Defense against the American Health Defense against the American Academy of Pediatrics accusing the Academy of Pediatrics accusing the Academy of Pediatrics accusing the medical organization of racketeering.

medical organization of racketeering. medical organization of racketeering. While multiple autopsies have reportedly While multiple autopsies have reportedly While multiple autopsies have reportedly been performed on the twins in the wake been performed on the twins in the wake been performed on the twins in the wake of their deaths, authorities have not of their deaths, authorities have not of their deaths, authorities have not released that information thus far. released that information thus far. released that information thus far. First thing on this, uh Sam, I want to First thing on this, uh Sam, I want to First thing on this, uh Sam, I want to jump into is the bail. jump into is the bail. jump into is the bail. I thought this was kind of interesting. I thought this was kind of interesting. I thought this was kind of interesting. She was originally had a $2 million She was originally had a $2 million She was originally had a $2 million bail. They were asking to reduce it for bail. They were asking to reduce it for bail. They were asking to reduce it for I think a very good reason. She just had I think a very good reason. She just had I think a very good reason. She just had a baby. She's got a 5-month-old at home a baby. She's got a 5-month-old at home a baby. She's got a 5-month-old at home apparently who is still breastfeeding apparently who is still breastfeeding apparently who is still breastfeeding and she's saying, "Listen." and she's saying, "Listen." and she's saying, "Listen." And apparently, I think this uh child And apparently, I think this uh child And apparently, I think this uh child was born prematurely or there's some was born prematurely or there's some was born prematurely or there's some sort of risk for the child. Um and she's sort of risk for the child. Um and she's sort of risk for the child. Um and she's saying, "Listen, I need to be out to saying, "Listen, I need to be out to saying, "Listen, I need to be out to take care of this baby." And the judge take care of this baby." And the judge take care of this baby." And the judge says, says, says, "Not only am I not going to reduce it, "Not only am I not going to reduce it, "Not only am I not going to reduce it, I'm revoking your bond entirely because I'm revoking your bond entirely because I'm revoking your bond entirely because of the new baby. I feel that you pose a of the new baby. I feel that you pose a of the new baby. I feel that you pose a risk to this new baby, not the community risk to this new baby, not the community risk to this new baby, not the community at large, but to this baby. at large, but to this baby. at large, but to this baby. I don't want to influence your your I don't want to influence your your I don't want to influence your your answer on this too much, but what are answer on this too much, but what are answer on this too much, but what are your thoughts? Go ahead and jump in.

your thoughts? Go ahead and jump in. your thoughts? Go ahead and jump in. >> Well, I think that this judge must have >> Well, I think that this judge must have >> Well, I think that this judge must have some information some information some information probable [clears throat] cause probable [clears throat] cause probable [clears throat] cause information information information uh from the from the underlying case uh from the from the underlying case uh from the from the underlying case to be convinced that she had something to be convinced that she had something to be convinced that she had something to do with the deaths of these to do with the deaths of these to do with the deaths of these uh deceased her deceased children. And uh deceased her deceased children. And uh deceased her deceased children. And so if if that's the case, why would the so if if that's the case, why would the so if if that's the case, why would the judge take a risk uh putting her with a judge take a risk uh putting her with a judge take a risk uh putting her with a very very young baby uh very very young baby uh very very young baby uh on conditions of bond without on conditions of bond without on conditions of bond without supervision. So, I think you could argue supervision. So, I think you could argue supervision. So, I think you could argue I guess the baby can come be come to the I guess the baby can come be come to the I guess the baby can come be come to the prison or the jail and be breastfed prison or the jail and be breastfed prison or the jail and be breastfed there, but what would the judge what there, but what would the judge what there, but what would the judge what would happen to the judge if if the would happen to the judge if if the would happen to the judge if if the other baby died, too? I think that's got other baby died, too? I think that's got other baby died, too? I think that's got to be uh his his uh to be uh his his uh to be uh his his uh thinking on on not just reducing the thinking on on not just reducing the thinking on on not just reducing the bond, but revoking it. Uh so, I think bond, but revoking it. Uh so, I think bond, but revoking it. Uh so, I think obviously the the safety to the obviously the the safety to the obviously the the safety to the community is always a criteria, and that community is always a criteria, and that community is always a criteria, and that baby is part of the community. >> Yeah, I mean I I totally understand the >> Yeah, I mean I I totally understand the I mean the last thing the judge would I mean the last thing the judge would I mean the last thing the judge would hate to have happen on his watch is for hate to have happen on his watch is for hate to have happen on his watch is for that new baby to die under suspicious that new baby to die under suspicious that new baby to die under suspicious circumstances and he think to himself circumstances and he think to himself circumstances and he think to himself there's something he could have been he there's something he could have been he there's something he could have been he could have done.

could have done. could have done. But aren't judges But aren't judges But aren't judges trying to look for res less restrictive trying to look for res less restrictive trying to look for res less restrictive means? Like it seems to me they he could means? Like it seems to me they he could means? Like it seems to me they he could could have said that she couldn't be could have said that she couldn't be could have said that she couldn't be with the baby unsupervised or I just I'm with the baby unsupervised or I just I'm with the baby unsupervised or I just I'm trying to think of another example where trying to think of another example where trying to think of another example where you've got a woman with no criminal you've got a woman with no criminal you've got a woman with no criminal record. Yes, she's been charged with record. Yes, she's been charged with record. Yes, she's been charged with something awful, but he's going to go something awful, but he's going to go something awful, but he's going to go ahead and revoke bail entirely just to ahead and revoke bail entirely just to ahead and revoke bail entirely just to protect protect protect the safety of one person. Am I get the safety of one person. Am I get the safety of one person. Am I get reading too much into this or you think reading too much into this or you think reading too much into this or you think the judge made the right call? the judge made the right call? the judge made the right call? >> I think he probably made the right call, >> I think he probably made the right call, >> I think he probably made the right call, but he must have known more about the but he must have known more about the but he must have known more about the situation situation situation >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> basic facts of the case to come to this >> basic facts of the case to come to this >> basic facts of the case to come to this conclusion that there was a huge risk. conclusion that there was a huge risk. conclusion that there was a huge risk. Obviously, this vaccine defense, it so Obviously, this vaccine defense, it so Obviously, this vaccine defense, it so to speak, uh to speak, uh to speak, uh indicates she's really deflecting indicates she's really deflecting indicates she's really deflecting uh from what could be the scientific uh from what could be the scientific uh from what could be the scientific evidence in the case showing that the evidence in the case showing that the evidence in the case showing that the vaccines had nothing to do with it. So, vaccines had nothing to do with it. So, vaccines had nothing to do with it. So, the judge must have come to some the judge must have come to some the judge must have come to some preliminary conclusions himself as to preliminary conclusions himself as to preliminary conclusions himself as to her guilt or innocence.

her guilt or innocence. her guilt or innocence. >> Yeah, let's get into that defense cuz it >> Yeah, let's get into that defense cuz it >> Yeah, let's get into that defense cuz it is the thing that really has put this on is the thing that really has put this on is the thing that really has put this on the radar of a lot of folks. So, the radar of a lot of folks. So, the radar of a lot of folks. So, initially she says or blames herself initially she says or blames herself initially she says or blames herself vaccines. She's saying that both the vaccines. She's saying that both the vaccines. She's saying that both the twins died soon after receiving their twins died soon after receiving their twins died soon after receiving their initial round of vaccines. I got to tell initial round of vaccines. I got to tell initial round of vaccines. I got to tell you, I'm a father of three little ones you, I'm a father of three little ones you, I'm a father of three little ones myself. I remember going through these myself. I remember going through these myself. I remember going through these vaccines. Nowadays, we have a lot of vaccines. Nowadays, we have a lot of vaccines. Nowadays, we have a lot of distrust towards these vaccines. And we distrust towards these vaccines. And we distrust towards these vaccines. And we we something that my wife and I thought we something that my wife and I thought we something that my wife and I thought seriously about like, God, you know, how seriously about like, God, you know, how seriously about like, God, you know, how many of these things do they really many of these things do they really many of these things do they really need? Do we need to give them all of need? Do we need to give them all of need? Do we need to give them all of them? We decided, them? We decided, them? We decided, you know, follow follow the medical you know, follow follow the medical you know, follow follow the medical advice and current science and I don't advice and current science and I don't advice and current science and I don't you know, last thing we want is to put you know, last thing we want is to put you know, last thing we want is to put them at risk. But, this is obviously I'm them at risk. But, this is obviously I'm them at risk. But, this is obviously I'm saying something that a lot of parents saying something that a lot of parents saying something that a lot of parents who may be potential jurors are thinking who may be potential jurors are thinking who may be potential jurors are thinking about. And they're saying that's what about. And they're saying that's what about. And they're saying that's what caused it. Now, caused it. Now, caused it. Now, obviously, investigators, medical obviously, investigators, medical obviously, investigators, medical examiners see this otherwise. To me, the examiners see this otherwise. To me, the examiners see this otherwise. To me, the question becomes why did it take so question becomes why did it take so question becomes why did it take so long, do you think? If this is a matter long, do you think? If this is a matter long, do you think? If this is a matter of an autopsy, you would think an of an autopsy, you would think an of an autopsy, you would think an autopsy could quickly evaluate whether autopsy could quickly evaluate whether autopsy could quickly evaluate whether it was a vaccine or, you know, now it was a vaccine or, you know, now it was a vaccine or, you know, now they're saying strangulation that caused they're saying strangulation that caused they're saying strangulation that caused these deaths.

these deaths. these deaths. Is there maybe room for a defense and Is there maybe room for a defense and Is there maybe room for a defense and how long it took them to arrive at this how long it took them to arrive at this how long it took them to arrive at this decision? decision? decision? >> Well, the other thing that occurs to me >> Well, the other thing that occurs to me >> Well, the other thing that occurs to me about the length of time is she must about the length of time is she must about the length of time is she must have been pregnant and they probably have been pregnant and they probably have been pregnant and they probably wanted to wait for her to have the baby, wanted to wait for her to have the baby, wanted to wait for her to have the baby, the new baby, before they sprung the the new baby, before they sprung the the new baby, before they sprung the arrest warrant on her. arrest warrant on her. arrest warrant on her. That's one thing that comes to mind. That's one thing that comes to mind. That's one thing that comes to mind. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> the science is the science. I mean, >> the science is the science. I mean, >> the science is the science. I mean, I don't think there's a lot of I don't think there's a lot of I don't think there's a lot of uh overlap between deaths caused by uh overlap between deaths caused by uh overlap between deaths caused by vaccine-related side effects and vaccine-related side effects and vaccine-related side effects and suffocation. suffocation. suffocation. >> Great point. >> Great point. >> Great point. >> If if there's really not If you have a >> If if there's really not If you have a >> If if there's really not If you have a Venn diagram, the two circles are pretty Venn diagram, the two circles are pretty Venn diagram, the two circles are pretty far apart, I would think. far apart, I would think. far apart, I would think. Um so, I I I just don't I I think that Um so, I I I just don't I I think that Um so, I I I just don't I I think that the the vaccine defense or the vaccine the the vaccine defense or the vaccine the the vaccine defense or the vaccine explanation is pretty desperate unless explanation is pretty desperate unless explanation is pretty desperate unless they have some sort of a credible expert they have some sort of a credible expert they have some sort of a credible expert witness to opine about that. witness to opine about that. witness to opine about that. >> Yeah, you would think that they don't >> Yeah, you would think that they don't >> Yeah, you would think that they don't have many vaccine-related deaths that have many vaccine-related deaths that have many vaccine-related deaths that are misinterpreted as strangulation or are misinterpreted as strangulation or are misinterpreted as strangulation or vice versa, right? I imagine there vice versa, right? I imagine there vice versa, right? I imagine there aren't many doctors taking a look at a aren't many doctors taking a look at a aren't many doctors taking a look at a child that's been suffocated to death child that's been suffocated to death child that's been suffocated to death and then blaming it on Tdap or something and then blaming it on Tdap or something and then blaming it on Tdap or something like that. You're right, there probably like that. You're right, there probably like that. You're right, there probably is a pretty clear distinction as to what is a pretty clear distinction as to what is a pretty clear distinction as to what would have caused these children's would have caused these children's would have caused these children's death. It sounds like this a much of death. It sounds like this a much of death. It sounds like this a much of this is going to come down to a war of this is going to come down to a war of this is going to come down to a war of experts as it is in many of these cases.

experts as it is in many of these cases. experts as it is in many of these cases. Last question on this, though. They're Last question on this, though. They're Last question on this, though. They're pretty bold to have not only pretty bold to have not only pretty bold to have not only um gone on and to do interviews about um gone on and to do interviews about um gone on and to do interviews about the vaccines, but then really kind of the vaccines, but then really kind of the vaccines, but then really kind of evaluated or or really kind of involved evaluated or or really kind of involved evaluated or or really kind of involved themselves in this anti-vax community, themselves in this anti-vax community, themselves in this anti-vax community, even being part of a lawsuit. Do you even being part of a lawsuit. Do you even being part of a lawsuit. Do you think that will come back to haunt them? think that will come back to haunt them? think that will come back to haunt them? >> I think it could on sentencing, >> I think it could on sentencing, >> I think it could on sentencing, obviously. If they're found guilty, and obviously. If they're found guilty, and obviously. If they're found guilty, and I think I would assume in most states I think I would assume in most states I think I would assume in most states the judge does the sentencing, the judge does the sentencing, the judge does the sentencing, uh it could inform his decision on what uh it could inform his decision on what uh it could inform his decision on what he should do because of a total lack of he should do because of a total lack of he should do because of a total lack of taking any responsibility for these taking any responsibility for these taking any responsibility for these deaths and trying to take advantage of deaths and trying to take advantage of deaths and trying to take advantage of this kind of vaccine hysteria going on this kind of vaccine hysteria going on this kind of vaccine hysteria going on as some sort of bogus defense. On the as some sort of bogus defense. On the as some sort of bogus defense. On the other hand, if there is some scientific other hand, if there is some scientific other hand, if there is some scientific basis to it, you got to listen to it and basis to it, you got to listen to it and basis to it, you got to listen to it and evaluate. evaluate. evaluate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll see. It's going to be an We'll see. It's going to be an We'll see. It's going to be an interesting case once it gets in front interesting case once it gets in front interesting case once it gets in front of jurors. Um of jurors. Um of jurors. Um like I said, probably going to be one of like I said, probably going to be one of like I said, probably going to be one of those battle of the experts. We'll leave those battle of the experts. We'll leave those battle of the experts. We'll leave it there for now. Our next case out of it there for now. Our next case out of it there for now. Our next case out of Chester Township, New Jersey, where the Chester Township, New Jersey, where the Chester Township, New Jersey, where the husband of a woman found stabbed to husband of a woman found stabbed to husband of a woman found stabbed to death in her home has retained an death in her home has retained an death in her home has retained an attorney, though police have not attorney, though police have not attorney, though police have not announced any suspect or arrest in the announced any suspect or arrest in the announced any suspect or arrest in the case. Therapist and new mother Brooke case. Therapist and new mother Brooke case. Therapist and new mother Brooke Hanlon was stabbed to death in her home Hanlon was stabbed to death in her home Hanlon was stabbed to death in her home in New Jersey's in a New Jersey suburb in New Jersey's in a New Jersey suburb in New Jersey's in a New Jersey suburb nearly 5 weeks ago. Responders arrived nearly 5 weeks ago. Responders arrived nearly 5 weeks ago. Responders arrived on the scene after her husband, James on the scene after her husband, James on the scene after her husband, James Connor Hanlon, called 911 reporting the Connor Hanlon, called 911 reporting the Connor Hanlon, called 911 reporting the woman as non-responsive before telling

woman as non-responsive before telling woman as non-responsive before telling dispatch she had a large laceration to dispatch she had a large laceration to dispatch she had a large laceration to her chest and pleading with personnel to her chest and pleading with personnel to her chest and pleading with personnel to arrive as quickly as possible. While the arrive as quickly as possible. While the arrive as quickly as possible. While the medical examiner deemed Brooke's death a medical examiner deemed Brooke's death a medical examiner deemed Brooke's death a homicide via multiple sharp force homicide via multiple sharp force homicide via multiple sharp force injuries, cops have yet to announce a injuries, cops have yet to announce a injuries, cops have yet to announce a suspect or even person of interest. Amid suspect or even person of interest. Amid suspect or even person of interest. Amid the investigation, Hanlon has retained the investigation, Hanlon has retained the investigation, Hanlon has retained legal counsel and the Morris County legal counsel and the Morris County legal counsel and the Morris County Prosecutor's Office has stated that he Prosecutor's Office has stated that he Prosecutor's Office has stated that he is, {quote} "communicating is, {quote} "communicating is, {quote} "communicating with investigators." All right. with investigators." All right. with investigators." All right. Uh, Sam, you're a defense attorney. Tell Uh, Sam, you're a defense attorney. Tell Uh, Sam, you're a defense attorney. Tell us here, are we viewing this all the us here, are we viewing this all the us here, are we viewing this all the wrong way by the idea that this guy has wrong way by the idea that this guy has wrong way by the idea that this guy has hired an attorney? Are we reading too hired an attorney? Are we reading too hired an attorney? Are we reading too much into that? Is it suspicious or is much into that? Is it suspicious or is much into that? Is it suspicious or is it kind of expected? it kind of expected? it kind of expected? >> For me, it's expected. For some people, >> For me, it's expected. For some people, >> For me, it's expected. For some people, it might be suspicious. But anybody who it might be suspicious. But anybody who it might be suspicious. But anybody who is in the position of the husband being is in the position of the husband being is in the position of the husband being the only person the only person the only person at the home when the body is discovered at the home when the body is discovered at the home when the body is discovered and there are stab wounds, yes, you and there are stab wounds, yes, you and there are stab wounds, yes, you should be called consulting an attorney should be called consulting an attorney should be called consulting an attorney at the very least. at the very least. at the very least. Now, we don't know the underlying facts Now, we don't know the underlying facts Now, we don't know the underlying facts that might point to somebody else.

that might point to somebody else. that might point to somebody else. Maybe there are some, maybe there are Maybe there are some, maybe there are Maybe there are some, maybe there are none. In any case, that husband needs a none. In any case, that husband needs a none. In any case, that husband needs a lawyer. lawyer. lawyer. >> I agree with you and I mean, you know, >> I agree with you and I mean, you know, >> I agree with you and I mean, you know, let's let's allow ourselves to speculate let's let's allow ourselves to speculate let's let's allow ourselves to speculate a little bit here. I mean, a little bit here. I mean, a little bit here. I mean, all signs kind of point toward the all signs kind of point toward the all signs kind of point toward the husband, right? I mean, he's he's the husband, right? I mean, he's he's the husband, right? I mean, he's he's the person who discovers her. He usually I would I would say even He usually I would I would say even without him having discovered her, without him having discovered her, without him having discovered her, usually it's the spouse that becomes usually it's the spouse that becomes usually it's the spouse that becomes suspect number one. suspect number one. suspect number one. But then you've got a very violent death But then you've got a very violent death But then you've got a very violent death in a quiet kind of suburban community in a quiet kind of suburban community in a quiet kind of suburban community with no signs of anything else. In other with no signs of anything else. In other with no signs of anything else. In other words, he's not saying during the 911 words, he's not saying during the 911 words, he's not saying during the 911 call, "Oh my god, my window was broken." call, "Oh my god, my window was broken." call, "Oh my god, my window was broken." Or "Oh my god, the door was forced in." Or "Oh my god, the door was forced in." Or "Oh my god, the door was forced in." He's just saying I find my wife dead on He's just saying I find my wife dead on He's just saying I find my wife dead on the ground with stab wounds. It kind of the ground with stab wounds. It kind of the ground with stab wounds. It kind of doesn't take doesn't take doesn't take you know, you know, you know, the the most skilled of armchair the the most skilled of armchair the the most skilled of armchair detective to say probably the husband's detective to say probably the husband's detective to say probably the husband's involved, no?

involved, no? involved, no? >> I'd say he's the number one based on >> I'd say he's the number one based on >> I'd say he's the number one based on what we know. Now, what we don't know, what we know. Now, what we don't know, what we know. Now, what we don't know, put on my defense attorney hat, we don't put on my defense attorney hat, we don't put on my defense attorney hat, we don't know if he just walked in from somewhere know if he just walked in from somewhere know if he just walked in from somewhere and he found her and he called 911 and and he found her and he called 911 and and he found her and he called 911 and was in shock, so he didn't have any time was in shock, so he didn't have any time was in shock, so he didn't have any time to to look around to see if there was to to look around to see if there was to to look around to see if there was any other evidence of a break-in or an any other evidence of a break-in or an any other evidence of a break-in or an intruder or intruder or intruder or an angry nanny who had left or anything an angry nanny who had left or anything an angry nanny who had left or anything like that. So, you know, there's there like that. So, you know, there's there like that. So, you know, there's there are other possibilities, but he is are other possibilities, but he is are other possibilities, but he is probably suspect number one. probably suspect number one. probably suspect number one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Tell us why are police kind >> Yeah. Yeah. Tell us why are police kind >> Yeah. Yeah. Tell us why are police kind of cute sometimes about things like of cute sometimes about things like of cute sometimes about things like suspects, persons of interest. They suspects, persons of interest. They suspects, persons of interest. They always seem to be very always seem to be very always seem to be very guarded when they start using those guarded when they start using those guarded when they start using those terms. Do Do those terms matter at all? terms. Do Do those terms matter at all? terms. Do Do those terms matter at all? Is it just a way of kind of keeping Is it just a way of kind of keeping Is it just a way of kind of keeping their their powder dry to say that, you their their powder dry to say that, you their their powder dry to say that, you know, no one's a suspect, everyone's a know, no one's a suspect, everyone's a know, no one's a suspect, everyone's a suspect? Why do they do that? suspect? Why do they do that? suspect? Why do they do that? >> I think they do it for a lot of reasons. >> I think they do it for a lot of reasons. >> I think they do it for a lot of reasons. One one is the media doesn't want to get One one is the media doesn't want to get One one is the media doesn't want to get it wrong if they say somebody is the it wrong if they say somebody is the it wrong if they say somebody is the killer killer killer because they can open themselves up to because they can open themselves up to because they can open themselves up to all sorts of lawsuits. I think you see all sorts of lawsuits. I think you see all sorts of lawsuits. I think you see this this in documentaries and movies this this in documentaries and movies this this in documentaries and movies all the time where it says inspired by all the time where it says inspired by all the time where it says inspired by true events.

true events. true events. You know, you kind of water it down a You know, you kind of water it down a You know, you kind of water it down a bit to to protect yourself from some bit to to protect yourself from some bit to to protect yourself from some civil liability, I think. And you know, civil liability, I think. And you know, civil liability, I think. And you know, if if they hadn't truly closed the case, if if they hadn't truly closed the case, if if they hadn't truly closed the case, they do want to tell somebody they're they do want to tell somebody they're they do want to tell somebody they're the person of interest in the event that the person of interest in the event that the person of interest in the event that person's going to come forward and make person's going to come forward and make person's going to come forward and make a statement and possibly confess. a statement and possibly confess. a statement and possibly confess. >> Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We're keeping a >> Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We're keeping a >> Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We're keeping a close eye on this one. I'm I I got to close eye on this one. I'm I I got to close eye on this one. I'm I I got to say I'm my money is on any moment now we say I'm my money is on any moment now we say I'm my money is on any moment now we will hear about an arrest and it will will hear about an arrest and it will will hear about an arrest and it will probably be the husband and and and and probably be the husband and and and and probably be the husband and and and and if I'm wrong and this man suffered the if I'm wrong and this man suffered the if I'm wrong and this man suffered the tragedy of finding his wife stabbed to tragedy of finding his wife stabbed to tragedy of finding his wife stabbed to death and on top of that there's jokers death and on top of that there's jokers death and on top of that there's jokers online saying that he's probably online saying that he's probably online saying that he's probably involved and I'm one of them, then I I involved and I'm one of them, then I I involved and I'm one of them, then I I fully apologize, but I would just be fully apologize, but I would just be fully apologize, but I would just be shocked if it wasn't him that ends up shocked if it wasn't him that ends up shocked if it wasn't him that ends up being held responsible for this. All being held responsible for this. All being held responsible for this. All right, let's move to our last case case right, let's move to our last case case right, let's move to our last case case out of Duxbury, Massachusetts. A mother out of Duxbury, Massachusetts. A mother out of Duxbury, Massachusetts. A mother accused of strangling her three children accused of strangling her three children accused of strangling her three children before attempting to take her own life before attempting to take her own life before attempting to take her own life is set to face trial next week after the is set to face trial next week after the is set to face trial next week after the [snorts] final status conference hearing [snorts] final status conference hearing [snorts] final status conference hearing in this case this week. Attorneys for in this case this week. Attorneys for in this case this week. Attorneys for Lindsay Clancy have announced that they Lindsay Clancy have announced that they Lindsay Clancy have announced that they will be pursuing an insanity defense as will be pursuing an insanity defense as will be pursuing an insanity defense as the mother faces murder charges for the the mother faces murder charges for the the mother faces murder charges for the deaths of 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old deaths of 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old deaths of 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and infant Callan who was just 8 Dawson, and infant Callan who was just 8 Dawson, and infant Callan who was just 8 months old when he died. Clancy's months old when he died. Clancy's months old when he died. Clancy's defense asserts that the woman was defense asserts that the woman was defense asserts that the woman was suffering from severe postpartum suffering from severe postpartum suffering from severe postpartum psychosis at the time of the 2023 deaths psychosis at the time of the 2023 deaths psychosis at the time of the 2023 deaths claiming the woman was not in her right claiming the woman was not in her right claiming the woman was not in her right mind when the killings happened. Despite

mind when the killings happened. Despite mind when the killings happened. Despite this, the judge denied a defense request this, the judge denied a defense request this, the judge denied a defense request to allow witness testimony from other to allow witness testimony from other to allow witness testimony from other mothers who have experienced the mothers who have experienced the mothers who have experienced the condition allowing only expert testimony condition allowing only expert testimony condition allowing only expert testimony in the witnesses list which reportedly in the witnesses list which reportedly in the witnesses list which reportedly already clocks in at 200 potential already clocks in at 200 potential already clocks in at 200 potential witnesses. On that list is Clancy's witnesses. On that list is Clancy's witnesses. On that list is Clancy's husband, Patrick, who will be testifying husband, Patrick, who will be testifying husband, Patrick, who will be testifying in her defense. Since the deaths, the in her defense. Since the deaths, the in her defense. Since the deaths, the father has been very vocal about father has been very vocal about father has been very vocal about forgiving his wife and urging the public forgiving his wife and urging the public forgiving his wife and urging the public to do the same. Prosecutors have not to do the same. Prosecutors have not to do the same. Prosecutors have not been as understanding, maintaining that been as understanding, maintaining that been as understanding, maintaining that Clancey acted with cold calculus in Clancey acted with cold calculus in Clancey acted with cold calculus in planning of her children's slayings, planning of her children's slayings, planning of her children's slayings, mapping out the exact amount of time her mapping out the exact amount of time her mapping out the exact amount of time her husband would be out of the house during husband would be out of the house during husband would be out of the house during the killings. The trial is slated to the killings. The trial is slated to the killings. The trial is slated to begin next week in Duxbury, despite begin next week in Duxbury, despite begin next week in Duxbury, despite defense motions for a change of venue. defense motions for a change of venue. defense motions for a change of venue. Injures are expected to visit the Injures are expected to visit the Injures are expected to visit the Clancey home at some point during the Clancey home at some point during the Clancey home at some point during the trial to view the crime scene. trial to view the crime scene. trial to view the crime scene. Sam, first thing on this I wanted to get Sam, first thing on this I wanted to get Sam, first thing on this I wanted to get into uh they wanted to and I'm curious into uh they wanted to and I'm curious into uh they wanted to and I'm curious to think if you made the if you think to think if you made the if you think to think if you made the if you think the judge made the right call, but the the judge made the right call, but the the judge made the right call, but the defense wanted to put other women who defense wanted to put other women who defense wanted to put other women who had suffered from postpartum psychosis had suffered from postpartum psychosis had suffered from postpartum psychosis on the stand. As kind of I I imagine um on the stand. As kind of I I imagine um on the stand. As kind of I I imagine um a way of explaining to jurors what this a way of explaining to jurors what this a way of explaining to jurors what this can be like from women who've actually can be like from women who've actually can be like from women who've actually experienced it rather than hearing from experienced it rather than hearing from experienced it rather than hearing from experts talk about it. They were experts talk about it. They were experts talk about it. They were actually want people who've been through actually want people who've been through actually want people who've been through it to talk about it. Judge says no. What it to talk about it. Judge says no. What it to talk about it. Judge says no. What do you think about that?

do you think about that? do you think about that? >> I think it's probably the right call. A >> I think it's probably the right call. A >> I think it's probably the right call. A judge has to struggle with the relevancy judge has to struggle with the relevancy judge has to struggle with the relevancy of other people's experiences being of other people's experiences being of other people's experiences being testified to first hand testified to first hand testified to first hand versus funneling that through experts. versus funneling that through experts. versus funneling that through experts. Now, one thing as you know, experts can Now, one thing as you know, experts can Now, one thing as you know, experts can testify based on hearsay. And when the testify based on hearsay. And when the testify based on hearsay. And when the experts testify, they can probably give experts testify, they can probably give experts testify, they can probably give case studies and examples of how case studies and examples of how case studies and examples of how somebody could suffer from this somebody could suffer from this somebody could suffer from this postpartum condition and and give some postpartum condition and and give some postpartum condition and and give some examples. So, I think the judge was just examples. So, I think the judge was just examples. So, I think the judge was just trying to limit the emotionality and trying to limit the emotionality and trying to limit the emotionality and possible irrelevancy or unfair prejudice possible irrelevancy or unfair prejudice possible irrelevancy or unfair prejudice to the state if actual individuals were to the state if actual individuals were to the state if actual individuals were emotionally recounting their mental emotionally recounting their mental emotionally recounting their mental state when they were going through state when they were going through state when they were going through postpartum depression. They can still postpartum depression. They can still postpartum depression. They can still get some of the information in and maybe get some of the information in and maybe get some of the information in and maybe even a lot of the examples through the even a lot of the examples through the even a lot of the examples through the experts. experts. experts. >> Let's break down a little bit that >> Let's break down a little bit that >> Let's break down a little bit that postpartum psychosis because postpartum psychosis because postpartum psychosis because what the law requires when it comes to what the law requires when it comes to what the law requires when it comes to insanity is very different than what insanity is very different than what insanity is very different than what most people might think of as a person most people might think of as a person most people might think of as a person who might be mentally distressed. I who might be mentally distressed. I who might be mentally distressed. I mean, they even call this psychosis, mean, they even call this psychosis, mean, they even call this psychosis, mentally ill. The law is pretty specific mentally ill. The law is pretty specific mentally ill. The law is pretty specific and the definition is fairly narrow. It and the definition is fairly narrow. It and the definition is fairly narrow. It says that a person has to not only be says that a person has to not only be says that a person has to not only be suffering from some sort of diagnosed suffering from some sort of diagnosed suffering from some sort of diagnosed condition, condition, condition, but that that caused them to be unable but that that caused them to be unable but that that caused them to be unable to appreciate the difference between to appreciate the difference between to appreciate the difference between right and wrong. Essentially, in its

right and wrong. Essentially, in its right and wrong. Essentially, in its most basic terms. most basic terms. most basic terms. How do you think that'll play out in How do you think that'll play out in How do you think that'll play out in this case? I mean, when you take a look this case? I mean, when you take a look this case? I mean, when you take a look at this, you have a mother, at this, you have a mother, at this, you have a mother, the father is standing by her. Mother, the father is standing by her. Mother, the father is standing by her. Mother, no history of any kind of criminal no history of any kind of criminal no history of any kind of criminal violence, murders her three beautiful violence, murders her three beautiful violence, murders her three beautiful young children. young children. young children. Anybody, I think, at first blush would Anybody, I think, at first blush would Anybody, I think, at first blush would take to a look at that and go, "Well, take to a look at that and go, "Well, take to a look at that and go, "Well, she must have been crazy. She must have she must have been crazy. She must have she must have been crazy. She must have lost her mind." But is that really the lost her mind." But is that really the lost her mind." But is that really the question in front of jurors when it question in front of jurors when it question in front of jurors when it comes to insanity? comes to insanity? comes to insanity? >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Good point. I think as I've as I've >> Good point. I think as I've as I've >> Good point. I think as I've as I've looked briefly at Massachusetts law looked briefly at Massachusetts law looked briefly at Massachusetts law versus some of the standard insanity versus some of the standard insanity versus some of the standard insanity criminal defenses, I understand criminal defenses, I understand criminal defenses, I understand Massachusetts is a little bit more Massachusetts is a little bit more Massachusetts is a little bit more lenient toward defendants in that they lenient toward defendants in that they lenient toward defendants in that they require substantial capacity. Somebody's require substantial capacity. Somebody's require substantial capacity. Somebody's lost a substantial capacity to lost a substantial capacity to lost a substantial capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of their appreciate the wrongfulness of their appreciate the wrongfulness of their action. So, there may be a little action. So, there may be a little action. So, there may be a little opening there in Massachusetts. The door opening there in Massachusetts. The door opening there in Massachusetts. The door may be slightly more open, is what I'm may be slightly more open, is what I'm may be slightly more open, is what I'm saying, than in than in most saying, than in than in most saying, than in than in most jurisdictions, including where I jurisdictions, including where I jurisdictions, including where I practice in Texas. But yeah, I think practice in Texas. But yeah, I think practice in Texas. But yeah, I think what what you have to evaluate is not what what you have to evaluate is not what what you have to evaluate is not just if somebody had a severe mental just if somebody had a severe mental just if somebody had a severe mental condition, but did it affect them in condition, but did it affect them in condition, but did it affect them in such a way as to where they lost all such a way as to where they lost all such a way as to where they lost all sense of right and wrong and whether or sense of right and wrong and whether or sense of right and wrong and whether or not their actions were violating the not their actions were violating the not their actions were violating the law. And it is it is not uncommon in law. And it is it is not uncommon in law. And it is it is not uncommon in today's world that some people are found today's world that some people are found today's world that some people are found guilty by reason of insanity insanity guilty by reason of insanity insanity guilty by reason of insanity insanity either by agreement of the state and the either by agreement of the state and the either by agreement of the state and the defense or after a hearing defense or after a hearing defense or after a hearing by a judge or a jury.

>> Let's get turned out to the prosecution >> Let's get turned out to the prosecution and what they will have to prove when it and what they will have to prove when it and what they will have to prove when it comes to this because we we talked about comes to this because we we talked about comes to this because we we talked about how how how at least in my view, I think at least in my view, I think at least in my view, I think uh uh uh jurors when first hearing about this jurors when first hearing about this jurors when first hearing about this probably are going to lean in favor of probably are going to lean in favor of probably are going to lean in favor of the idea that she was not well, okay? the idea that she was not well, okay? the idea that she was not well, okay? But the prosecution is going to point to But the prosecution is going to point to But the prosecution is going to point to some things uh about the planning some things uh about the planning some things uh about the planning involved. We know that they have involved. We know that they have involved. We know that they have evidence allegedly that she um sort of evidence allegedly that she um sort of evidence allegedly that she um sort of lured her husband outside of the home, lured her husband outside of the home, lured her husband outside of the home, sent him on an errand. She knew how long sent him on an errand. She knew how long sent him on an errand. She knew how long that errand would take. She knew how that errand would take. She knew how that errand would take. She knew how much time she had in the home. much time she had in the home. much time she had in the home. She strangled these children to death as She strangled these children to death as She strangled these children to death as awful as it is to even think about with awful as it is to even think about with awful as it is to even think about with exercise bands. exercise bands. exercise bands. Uh the medical examiner is going to Uh the medical examiner is going to Uh the medical examiner is going to testify to that is not a quick death. testify to that is not a quick death. testify to that is not a quick death. That is a death that takes several That is a death that takes several That is a death that takes several minutes per child. So, we're talking minutes per child. So, we're talking minutes per child. So, we're talking about somebody who's who's following about somebody who's who's following about somebody who's who's following through through through on several different steps and the the on several different steps and the the on several different steps and the the prosecution I imagine is going to hammer prosecution I imagine is going to hammer prosecution I imagine is going to hammer home all through all of that. She's home all through all of that. She's home all through all of that. She's thinking about it. She's deliberating thinking about it. She's deliberating thinking about it. She's deliberating about it. She knows what she's doing.

about it. She knows what she's doing. about it. She knows what she's doing. She's doing something horrible and wrong She's doing something horrible and wrong She's doing something horrible and wrong and she continues to do it. and she continues to do it. and she continues to do it. >> Is that essentially the argument the >> Is that essentially the argument the >> Is that essentially the argument the prosecutors will have to make uh prosecutors will have to make uh prosecutors will have to make uh and and how successful do you think that and and how successful do you think that and and how successful do you think that might be? might be? might be? >> That type of approach by the prosecution >> That type of approach by the prosecution >> That type of approach by the prosecution is very common encountering an insanity is very common encountering an insanity is very common encountering an insanity defense. If you have a crime that's defense. If you have a crime that's defense. If you have a crime that's committed impulsively with the firing of committed impulsively with the firing of committed impulsively with the firing of a gun or the slashing of the throat or a gun or the slashing of the throat or a gun or the slashing of the throat or something quick, that's a harder that's something quick, that's a harder that's something quick, that's a harder that's a harder rebuttal to make. But in this a harder rebuttal to make. But in this a harder rebuttal to make. But in this case, it sounds like they have a case, it sounds like they have a case, it sounds like they have a substantial lead-up to the actual crime, substantial lead-up to the actual crime, substantial lead-up to the actual crime, number of minutes if not an hour. And I number of minutes if not an hour. And I number of minutes if not an hour. And I think that's the best counterargument to think that's the best counterargument to think that's the best counterargument to say that she did did have the capacity say that she did did have the capacity say that she did did have the capacity to to appreciate what she was doing was to to appreciate what she was doing was to to appreciate what she was doing was wrong and she was violating the law wrong and she was violating the law wrong and she was violating the law because of the amount of time and because of the amount of time and because of the amount of time and planning that went into it. Most planning that went into it. Most planning that went into it. Most critically probably that her critically probably that her critically probably that her sent her husband on an errand to so she sent her husband on an errand to so she sent her husband on an errand to so she could have the time alone to commit the could have the time alone to commit the could have the time alone to commit the crime. crime. crime. >> Yeah, really awful case. Really I mean >> Yeah, really awful case. Really I mean >> Yeah, really awful case. Really I mean the the other thing we didn't add into the the other thing we didn't add into the the other thing we didn't add into all of this is that she all of this is that she all of this is that she then allegedly attempted to take her own then allegedly attempted to take her own then allegedly attempted to take her own life, jumped out of the window. She's life, jumped out of the window. She's life, jumped out of the window. She's now now now per per per permanently paralyzed from that. Uh so permanently paralyzed from that. Uh so permanently paralyzed from that. Uh so it's just a complete awful nightmarish it's just a complete awful nightmarish it's just a complete awful nightmarish tragedy all around. When it comes down tragedy all around. When it comes down tragedy all around. When it comes down to to to um selecting a jury, it's I imagine it's um selecting a jury, it's I imagine it's um selecting a jury, it's I imagine it's going to be a very delicate affair. What going to be a very delicate affair. What going to be a very delicate affair. What do you think each side is going to be do you think each side is going to be do you think each side is going to be looking for out of a potential juror

looking for out of a potential juror looking for out of a potential juror when it comes to a case like this? when it comes to a case like this? when it comes to a case like this? >> Well, you're always [snorts] trying to >> Well, you're always [snorts] trying to >> Well, you're always [snorts] trying to eliminate jurors who have some sort of eliminate jurors who have some sort of eliminate jurors who have some sort of an experience that causes them not to an experience that causes them not to an experience that causes them not to see the evidence without prejudgment. So see the evidence without prejudgment. So see the evidence without prejudgment. So if you have jurors that have had if you have jurors that have had if you have jurors that have had postpartum or had loved ones who had postpartum or had loved ones who had postpartum or had loved ones who had postpartum, you're going to want to postpartum, you're going to want to postpartum, you're going to want to really quiz them about does that really quiz them about does that really quiz them about does that experience cause you to not look at this experience cause you to not look at this experience cause you to not look at this evidence in a neutral light. evidence in a neutral light. evidence in a neutral light. Uh on the other hand, you may have law Uh on the other hand, you may have law Uh on the other hand, you may have law enforcement or other jurors with a enforcement or other jurors with a enforcement or other jurors with a background in law who may be real background in law who may be real background in law who may be real cynical or of the insanity defense or cynical or of the insanity defense or cynical or of the insanity defense or may not agree with it. So you want to may not agree with it. So you want to may not agree with it. So you want to you want to explore those jurors as well you want to explore those jurors as well you want to explore those jurors as well from the prosecution and defense from the prosecution and defense from the prosecution and defense standpoint to see if they should be standpoint to see if they should be standpoint to see if they should be excluded. So at the bottom line, jury excluded. So at the bottom line, jury excluded. So at the bottom line, jury selection is a process of winnowing out selection is a process of winnowing out selection is a process of winnowing out people who can't come into the jury people who can't come into the jury people who can't come into the jury trial with a so-called blank slate. And trial with a so-called blank slate. And trial with a so-called blank slate. And sometimes we do an effective job of that sometimes we do an effective job of that sometimes we do an effective job of that and sometimes not as effective. and sometimes not as effective. and sometimes not as effective. >> Yeah. And and sometimes >> Yeah. And and sometimes >> Yeah. And and sometimes it's not effective and we don't realize it's not effective and we don't realize it's not effective and we don't realize it till it the whole thing's over.

it till it the whole thing's over. it till it the whole thing's over. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. All right. Well, we will find out soon All right. Well, we will find out soon All right. Well, we will find out soon enough how all of that goes in that case enough how all of that goes in that case enough how all of that goes in that case because it's like I said, slated to because it's like I said, slated to because it's like I said, slated to begin early next week. In the meantime, begin early next week. In the meantime, begin early next week. In the meantime, that is our show. Sam, thank you so much that is our show. Sam, thank you so much that is our show. Sam, thank you so much for coming on this week. Where can for coming on this week. Where can for coming on this week. Where can people find out more about you? Do you people find out more about you? Do you people find out more about you? Do you have a website, social media? Please have a website, social media? Please have a website, social media? Please tell us. tell us. tell us. >> Yes, [snorts] the website for my law >> Yes, [snorts] the website for my law >> Yes, [snorts] the website for my law firm is the best place. It's M as in firm is the best place. It's M as in firm is the best place. It's M as in Mary, B, F, C {dot} com. mbfc.com. Mary, B, F, C {dot} com. mbfc.com. Mary, B, F, C {dot} com. mbfc.com. >> Fantastic. We will look you up, my >> Fantastic. We will look you up, my >> Fantastic. We will look you up, my friend. I'm your host, Josh Ritter. You friend. I'm your host, Josh Ritter. You friend. I'm your host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at can find me on Instagram and Twitter at can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Joshua Ritter Esq. And if you want to Joshua Ritter Esq. And if you want to Joshua Ritter Esq. And if you want to hear my thoughts and coverage on even hear my thoughts and coverage on even hear my thoughts and coverage on even more true crime cases, please check out more true crime cases, please check out more true crime cases, please check out my YouTube channel, Courtroom my YouTube channel, Courtroom my YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. And you can of course find Confidential. And you can of course find Confidential. And you can of course find all of our sidebar episodes wherever you all of our sidebar episodes wherever you all of our sidebar episodes wherever you get your podcast and we would love to get your podcast and we would love to get your podcast and we would love to hear from you. If you've got questions hear from you. If you've got questions hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you'd like us to address, or comments you'd like us to address, or comments you'd like us to address, please tweet us your questions with the please tweet us your questions with the please tweet us your questions with the hashtag TCN Sidebar. And thank you for hashtag TCN Sidebar. And thank you for hashtag TCN Sidebar. And thank you for joining us at the True Crime News joining us at the True Crime News joining us at the True Crime News Sidebar.