Killer sentenced in track meet stabbing; Man accused of fatal boat crash breaks down in tears

Hello and welcome to the Sidebar Hello and welcome to the Sidebar presented by True Crime News, taking you presented by True Crime News, taking you presented by True Crime News, taking you inside the courtrooms of high-profile inside the courtrooms of high-profile inside the courtrooms of high-profile and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County prosecutor for over a decade. We are prosecutor for over a decade. We are prosecutor for over a decade. We are recording this on Wednesday, June 10th, recording this on Wednesday, June 10th, recording this on Wednesday, June 10th, 2026. In this week's episode, the father 2026. In this week's episode, the father 2026. In this week's episode, the father at the center of a deadly boat crash. at the center of a deadly boat crash. at the center of a deadly boat crash. Plus, the federal arson trial for the Plus, the federal arson trial for the Plus, the federal arson trial for the man accused of starting the fire that man accused of starting the fire that man accused of starting the fire that burned down the Palisades. But first, a burned down the Palisades. But first, a burned down the Palisades. But first, a lengthy sentence for Carmelo Anthony lengthy sentence for Carmelo Anthony lengthy sentence for Carmelo Anthony following his conviction in a fatal following his conviction in a fatal following his conviction in a fatal track meetat stabbing. Today, we are track meetat stabbing. Today, we are track meetat stabbing. Today, we are joined by Anjanet Levy, a journalist, joined by Anjanet Levy, a journalist, joined by Anjanet Levy, a journalist, legal correspondent, and host of Crime legal correspondent, and host of Crime legal correspondent, and host of Crime Fix on the Lawn Crime Network. Anette, Fix on the Lawn Crime Network. Anette, Fix on the Lawn Crime Network. Anette, welcome. How are you? welcome. How are you? welcome. How are you? >> Hey, I'm well, Josh. How are you? >> Hey, I'm well, Josh. How are you? >> Hey, I'm well, Josh. How are you? >> I'm good. Um, this was like a busy >> I'm good. Um, this was like a busy >> I'm good. Um, this was like a busy week or so in true crime, don't you week or so in true crime, don't you week or so in true crime, don't you think? I feel like things go eb and flow think? I feel like things go eb and flow think? I feel like things go eb and flow and then all of a sudden one of these and then all of a sudden one of these and then all of a sudden one of these weeks sneaks up on you where there's a weeks sneaks up on you where there's a weeks sneaks up on you where there's a lot going on.

lot going on. lot going on. >> Yeah, it it really has. And a lot of >> Yeah, it it really has. And a lot of >> Yeah, it it really has. And a lot of things have kind of piled up um in things have kind of piled up um in things have kind of piled up um in different realms. You know, it's it different realms. You know, it's it different realms. You know, it's it seems like some weeks we have nothing seems like some weeks we have nothing seems like some weeks we have nothing going on and then Yes. This week it's going on and then Yes. This week it's going on and then Yes. This week it's like when it rains and pours. like when it rains and pours. like when it rains and pours. >> Yes. Sometimes I feel like we struggle >> Yes. Sometimes I feel like we struggle >> Yes. Sometimes I feel like we struggle to figure out what are we going to talk to figure out what are we going to talk to figure out what are we going to talk about and then other weeks it's like about and then other weeks it's like about and then other weeks it's like there's too much to talk about, right? there's too much to talk about, right? there's too much to talk about, right? And one of those that kind of dominated And one of those that kind of dominated And one of those that kind of dominated uh the last week or two though has been uh the last week or two though has been uh the last week or two though has been the Carmelo Anthony case. the Carmelo Anthony case. the Carmelo Anthony case. >> Um and it really it was a case that's >> Um and it really it was a case that's >> Um and it really it was a case that's been around for a while, but I feel like been around for a while, but I feel like been around for a while, but I feel like it was on a slow burn and then obviously it was on a slow burn and then obviously it was on a slow burn and then obviously the trial, but things the amount of the trial, but things the amount of the trial, but things the amount of attention this got this case got um was attention this got this case got um was attention this got this case got um was surprising to me. I didn't know that surprising to me. I didn't know that surprising to me. I didn't know that there were that many people as there were that many people as there were that many people as interested in it. So, let's let's jump interested in it. So, let's let's jump interested in it. So, let's let's jump into it. First, we're we're out of into it. First, we're we're out of into it. First, we're we're out of Frisco, Texas, where shortly after Frisco, Texas, where shortly after Frisco, Texas, where shortly after jurors convicted Carmelo Anthony jurors convicted Carmelo Anthony jurors convicted Carmelo Anthony of Austin Metaf, the sentencing phase of Austin Metaf, the sentencing phase of Austin Metaf, the sentencing phase wrapped up, delivering Anthony a 35year wrapped up, delivering Anthony a 35year wrapped up, delivering Anthony a 35year sentence. Metaf was killed in an sentence. Metaf was killed in an sentence. Metaf was killed in an altercation at a rainy track meet when altercation at a rainy track meet when altercation at a rainy track meet when Metaf and his high school team tried to Metaf and his high school team tried to Metaf and his high school team tried to kick Anthony out of their team tent. The kick Anthony out of their team tent. The kick Anthony out of their team tent. The incident escalated physically with Metaf incident escalated physically with Metaf incident escalated physically with Metaf shoving Anthony before Anthony produced shoving Anthony before Anthony produced shoving Anthony before Anthony produced the knife from his backpack and stabbed the knife from his backpack and stabbed the knife from his backpack and stabbed Metaf in the chest. At trial, Anony's Metaf in the chest. At trial, Anony's Metaf in the chest. At trial, Anony's attorneys presented a self-defense case attorneys presented a self-defense case attorneys presented a self-defense case which bore little weight with jurors who which bore little weight with jurors who which bore little weight with jurors who reached their verdict in under 3 hours.

reached their verdict in under 3 hours. reached their verdict in under 3 hours. During sentencing, which took place During sentencing, which took place During sentencing, which took place later that same day, jurors were asked later that same day, jurors were asked later that same day, jurors were asked to consider if the crime was committed to consider if the crime was committed to consider if the crime was committed in quote unquote sudden passion, which in quote unquote sudden passion, which in quote unquote sudden passion, which would have lowered the sentencing would have lowered the sentencing would have lowered the sentencing guideline significantly. However, that guideline significantly. However, that guideline significantly. However, that too did not go Anony's way with the teen too did not go Anony's way with the teen too did not go Anony's way with the teen now looking at more than three decades now looking at more than three decades now looking at more than three decades behind bars. First, Anginette, having behind bars. First, Anginette, having behind bars. First, Anginette, having followed this, do you think they got it followed this, do you think they got it followed this, do you think they got it right as far as the both the verdict and right as far as the both the verdict and right as far as the both the verdict and the sentence on this case? the sentence on this case? the sentence on this case? >> Well, you know, it's so hard, Josh, >> Well, you know, it's so hard, Josh, >> Well, you know, it's so hard, Josh, because you know, we're just I think it because you know, we're just I think it because you know, we're just I think it was a huge disservice that they didn't was a huge disservice that they didn't was a huge disservice that they didn't have cameras in the courtroom. I'm sure have cameras in the courtroom. I'm sure have cameras in the courtroom. I'm sure you feel the same way. I think there are you feel the same way. I think there are you feel the same way. I think there are some things they could have done to some things they could have done to some things they could have done to protect the minor witnesses in this protect the minor witnesses in this protect the minor witnesses in this case. Um, so I think cameras needed to case. Um, so I think cameras needed to case. Um, so I think cameras needed to be in there. From all of the testimony be in there. From all of the testimony be in there. From all of the testimony that I heard, uh, and when I say heard, that I heard, uh, and when I say heard, that I heard, uh, and when I say heard, when I read about it and I was reading when I read about it and I was reading when I read about it and I was reading through the live blogs, it sounds like, through the live blogs, it sounds like, through the live blogs, it sounds like, you know, the jurors likely got it you know, the jurors likely got it you know, the jurors likely got it right. It didn't sound like there was right. It didn't sound like there was right. It didn't sound like there was much to back up at all this self-defense much to back up at all this self-defense much to back up at all this self-defense claim. uh you know, meeting a shove in claim. uh you know, meeting a shove in claim. uh you know, meeting a shove in words with a knife. Yeah.

words with a knife. Yeah. words with a knife. Yeah. >> To the chest, a stab to the chest. It >> To the chest, a stab to the chest. It >> To the chest, a stab to the chest. It just those two things, you know, do not just those two things, you know, do not just those two things, you know, do not do not comport. So, I I think that the do not comport. So, I I think that the do not comport. So, I I think that the jury probably got it right. As far as jury probably got it right. As far as jury probably got it right. As far as the sentence goes, the sentence goes, the sentence goes, you know, they could have given him a you know, they could have given him a you know, they could have given him a lot more time. They had a range of, you lot more time. They had a range of, you lot more time. They had a range of, you know, anywhere from 5 years to 99 and know, anywhere from 5 years to 99 and know, anywhere from 5 years to 99 and they gave him 35. they gave him 35. they gave him 35. He can still get out someday. He can still get out someday. He can still get out someday. >> So Austin Metaf's family, they're going >> So Austin Metaf's family, they're going >> So Austin Metaf's family, they're going to be grieving the rest of their lives to be grieving the rest of their lives to be grieving the rest of their lives and living without him for the rest of and living without him for the rest of and living without him for the rest of their lives. So um I I just think that their lives. So um I I just think that their lives. So um I I just think that there was nothing to back up the there was nothing to back up the there was nothing to back up the self-defense claim, especially with him self-defense claim, especially with him self-defense claim, especially with him not taking the stand. That is the most not taking the stand. That is the most not taking the stand. That is the most shocking part of this. I'm like, I've shocking part of this. I'm like, I've shocking part of this. I'm like, I've never I don't think I've ever seen a never I don't think I've ever seen a never I don't think I've ever seen a self-defense case. I've covered many self-defense case. I've covered many self-defense case. I've covered many self-defense cases. I've never seen one self-defense cases. I've never seen one self-defense cases. I've never seen one where the defendant didn't take the where the defendant didn't take the where the defendant didn't take the stand in an affirmative defense and say, stand in an affirmative defense and say, stand in an affirmative defense and say, "This is why I did what I did."

"This is why I did what I did." "This is why I did what I did." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that you brought that out. That that was you brought that out. That that was you brought that out. That that was something I wanted to get into. But I something I wanted to get into. But I something I wanted to get into. But I But first, let me say I I agree with But first, let me say I I agree with But first, let me say I I agree with you. Um I think why people struggled you. Um I think why people struggled you. Um I think why people struggled Well, let me say this. People definitely Well, let me say this. People definitely Well, let me say this. People definitely went to their camps on this one. There went to their camps on this one. There went to their camps on this one. There was a lot of politics was a lot of politics was a lot of politics be behind it. Yes. But even for be behind it. Yes. But even for be behind it. Yes. But even for objective, even-handed people who were objective, even-handed people who were objective, even-handed people who were >> watching this, reading about it, people >> watching this, reading about it, people >> watching this, reading about it, people struggled because any way you look at struggled because any way you look at struggled because any way you look at it, this entire story is tragedy upon it, this entire story is tragedy upon it, this entire story is tragedy upon tragedy because you've got one young man tragedy because you've got one young man tragedy because you've got one young man who's lost his life and that family will who's lost his life and that family will who's lost his life and that family will never repair from that. And then you got never repair from that. And then you got never repair from that. And then you got another young man who's likely going to another young man who's likely going to another young man who's likely going to go off to prison for the better part of go off to prison for the better part of go off to prison for the better part of his life, which is no one no one cheers his life, which is no one no one cheers his life, which is no one no one cheers over that as well. But I agree with you over that as well. But I agree with you over that as well. But I agree with you that it came down to one very that it came down to one very that it came down to one very central and relatively simple question central and relatively simple question central and relatively simple question of was it reasonable to respond to the of was it reasonable to respond to the of was it reasonable to respond to the physical uh even if you want to say it physical uh even if you want to say it physical uh even if you want to say it was Metaf who was the uh initiator of was Metaf who was the uh initiator of was Metaf who was the uh initiator of any kind of physical contact any kind of physical contact any kind of physical contact >> with a knife to the chest. And I didn't >> with a knife to the chest. And I didn't >> with a knife to the chest. And I didn't hear anything that that would explain hear anything that that would explain hear anything that that would explain that. And so, yes, they arrived, I that. And so, yes, they arrived, I that. And so, yes, they arrived, I think, at the right verdict. And as far think, at the right verdict. And as far think, at the right verdict. And as far as sentencing goes, it's murder. I mean, as sentencing goes, it's murder. I mean, as sentencing goes, it's murder. I mean, you know, in in California here, you you know, in in California here, you you know, in in California here, you murder somebody, it's 25 to life. You murder somebody, it's 25 to life. You murder somebody, it's 25 to life. You add a weapon onto that, it could be 35 add a weapon onto that, it could be 35 add a weapon onto that, it could be 35 or 50 to life. So, I think they were

or 50 to life. So, I think they were or 50 to life. So, I think they were right it kind of in that right range of right it kind of in that right range of right it kind of in that right range of what a murder case would be. It's just what a murder case would be. It's just what a murder case would be. It's just it's sad. Now, he will be eligible for it's sad. Now, he will be eligible for it's sad. Now, he will be eligible for parole in half of as much of of that parole in half of as much of of that parole in half of as much of of that time. Um, but he may not be parrolled time. Um, but he may not be parrolled time. Um, but he may not be parrolled immediately, but it it is sad. Now, his immediately, but it it is sad. Now, his immediately, but it it is sad. Now, his family is going to have to, you know, family is going to have to, you know, family is going to have to, you know, they'll be able to visit him, but they'll be able to visit him, but they'll be able to visit him, but they're just going to be able to visit they're just going to be able to visit they're just going to be able to visit him through bars. But let's get to the him through bars. But let's get to the him through bars. But let's get to the the point that you made, which is what a the point that you made, which is what a the point that you made, which is what a lot of people have been debating as to lot of people have been debating as to lot of people have been debating as to why he didn't take the stand. I agree why he didn't take the stand. I agree why he didn't take the stand. I agree with you. Self-defense cases are those with you. Self-defense cases are those with you. Self-defense cases are those rare instances where somebody should rare instances where somebody should rare instances where somebody should take the stand. And even in a case like take the stand. And even in a case like take the stand. And even in a case like this, even if he couldn't say anything this, even if he couldn't say anything this, even if he couldn't say anything that would rationalize stabbing that that would rationalize stabbing that that would rationalize stabbing that young man, he would have at least been young man, he would have at least been young man, he would have at least been able to give the jurors a perspective as able to give the jurors a perspective as able to give the jurors a perspective as to what was in his head, right or wrong, to what was in his head, right or wrong, to what was in his head, right or wrong, which may have affected sentencing. No, which may have affected sentencing. No, which may have affected sentencing. No, >> I I I agree with you 100% on that. Um, >> I I I agree with you 100% on that. Um, >> I I I agree with you 100% on that. Um, let's say they didn't put him up there let's say they didn't put him up there let's say they didn't put him up there because they didn't feel like he would because they didn't feel like he would because they didn't feel like he would be a good witness and and really it it's be a good witness and and really it it's be a good witness and and really it it's up to him. That is the only decision a up to him. That is the only decision a up to him. That is the only decision a defendant.

defendant. defendant. >> That's true. He could have they could >> That's true. He could have they could >> That's true. He could have they could have said we want you to and he said no. have said we want you to and he said no. have said we want you to and he said no. So we don't know that. Yeah. So we don't know that. Yeah. So we don't know that. Yeah. >> Maybe he thought like I don't really >> Maybe he thought like I don't really >> Maybe he thought like I don't really have any good explanation, you know, have any good explanation, you know, have any good explanation, you know, like I I can't do this. Like I maybe like I I can't do this. Like I maybe like I I can't do this. Like I maybe they did some dry runs with him, some they did some dry runs with him, some they did some dry runs with him, some practice runs, you know. Of course they practice runs, you know. Of course they practice runs, you know. Of course they did. Of course they tried to prep him. did. Of course they tried to prep him. did. Of course they tried to prep him. Uh maybe they thought he wouldn't come Uh maybe they thought he wouldn't come Uh maybe they thought he wouldn't come across well. Maybe they thought it would across well. Maybe they thought it would across well. Maybe they thought it would do more harm than good. do more harm than good. do more harm than good. >> And maybe he didn't want to. Who knows? >> And maybe he didn't want to. Who knows? >> And maybe he didn't want to. Who knows? Um, but I think that he could have Um, but I think that he could have Um, but I think that he could have helped himself if he had gotten up helped himself if he had gotten up helped himself if he had gotten up there. Uh, honestly, I think the best there. Uh, honestly, I think the best there. Uh, honestly, I think the best thing for him and his lawyers, if the thing for him and his lawyers, if the thing for him and his lawyers, if the best thing they could have done, and who best thing they could have done, and who best thing they could have done, and who knows, like we'll maybe we'll find out knows, like we'll maybe we'll find out knows, like we'll maybe we'll find out later, run to that prosecutor and beg later, run to that prosecutor and beg later, run to that prosecutor and beg for a plea agreement, uh, like something for a plea agreement, uh, like something for a plea agreement, uh, like something favorable. And, and this is, you know, I favorable. And, and this is, you know, I favorable. And, and this is, you know, I was talking to my husband about this, was talking to my husband about this, was talking to my husband about this, you know, he was like, "It's Texas." And you know, he was like, "It's Texas." And you know, he was like, "It's Texas." And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, >> "You're right. It's Texas." you know, >> "You're right. It's Texas." you know, >> "You're right. It's Texas." you know, like so I I mean it, you know, they they like so I I mean it, you know, they they like so I I mean it, you know, they they just don't play down there, you know. So just don't play down there, you know. So just don't play down there, you know. So I I think that um he may have been able I I think that um he may have been able I I think that um he may have been able to help himself had he gotten on that to help himself had he gotten on that to help himself had he gotten on that stand and explained his actions, but the stand and explained his actions, but the stand and explained his actions, but the odds were stacked against him. So many odds were stacked against him. So many odds were stacked against him. So many people said he was the aggressor and people said he was the aggressor and people said he was the aggressor and that he showed up to a track meet, a that he showed up to a track meet, a that he showed up to a track meet, a track meet with a knife in his backpack track meet with a knife in his backpack track meet with a knife in his backpack and then put his hand in the backpack.

and then put his hand in the backpack. and then put his hand in the backpack. There were so many witnesses that There were so many witnesses that There were so many witnesses that explained what happened and explained explained what happened and explained explained what happened and explained that he was the aggressor and and I that he was the aggressor and and I that he was the aggressor and and I think there were some issues with some think there were some issues with some think there were some issues with some of the testimony though. I thought it of the testimony though. I thought it of the testimony though. I thought it was so weird that the prosecutor was was so weird that the prosecutor was was so weird that the prosecutor was allowed to ask each like witness like allowed to ask each like witness like allowed to ask each like witness like was this murder? I mean, that's a was this murder? I mean, that's a was this murder? I mean, that's a question for the jury. I mean, did you question for the jury. I mean, did you question for the jury. I mean, did you think that was an improper question, think that was an improper question, think that was an improper question, Josh? Josh? Josh? >> Yeah, I I do. And I I don't Again, to go >> Yeah, I I do. And I I don't Again, to go >> Yeah, I I do. And I I don't Again, to go back to your point about why cameras back to your point about why cameras back to your point about why cameras were not allowed in the courtroom, it were not allowed in the courtroom, it were not allowed in the courtroom, it wasn't clear to me entirely why that was wasn't clear to me entirely why that was wasn't clear to me entirely why that was allowed or if there were objections allowed or if there were objections allowed or if there were objections being made by the defense or if the being made by the defense or if the being made by the defense or if the defense was allowing them to make the qu defense was allowing them to make the qu defense was allowing them to make the qu ask the question so that they could ask ask the question so that they could ask ask the question so that they could ask a similar question on on cross. It that a similar question on on cross. It that a similar question on on cross. It that was all unclear to me. And and and was all unclear to me. And and and was all unclear to me. And and and again, not to uh to bring this back to again, not to uh to bring this back to again, not to uh to bring this back to the prior point about cameras, but in a the prior point about cameras, but in a the prior point about cameras, but in a case like this where so many people have case like this where so many people have case like this where so many people have run to their respective corners and it run to their respective corners and it run to their respective corners and it has become politicized, wouldn't it be has become politicized, wouldn't it be has become politicized, wouldn't it be nice to have one objective, nice to have one objective, nice to have one objective, no fight in the no dog in the fight, uh no fight in the no dog in the fight, uh no fight in the no dog in the fight, uh witness to what exactly took place in witness to what exactly took place in witness to what exactly took place in court being the cameras, yet instead as court being the cameras, yet instead as court being the cameras, yet instead as as as good as the reporting inside the as as good as the reporting inside the as as good as the reporting inside the courtroom was, it wasn't cameras. It courtroom was, it wasn't cameras. It courtroom was, it wasn't cameras. It wasn't something that you could point wasn't something that you could point wasn't something that you could point back to and go, "No, you got that back to and go, "No, you got that back to and go, "No, you got that wrong." Because if you listen to people wrong." Because if you listen to people wrong." Because if you listen to people outside of the courtroom, there was vad outside of the courtroom, there was vad outside of the courtroom, there was vad vastly different interpretations as to vastly different interpretations as to vastly different interpretations as to what was taking place in that courtroom.

what was taking place in that courtroom. what was taking place in that courtroom. >> I and I agree with you 100%. And you >> I and I agree with you 100%. And you >> I and I agree with you 100%. And you know, I I've mentioned this to other know, I I've mentioned this to other know, I I've mentioned this to other people. It it brings me back to um Derek people. It it brings me back to um Derek people. It it brings me back to um Derek Schovin's trial a little bit. um totally Schovin's trial a little bit. um totally Schovin's trial a little bit. um totally different sort of set of circumstances. different sort of set of circumstances. different sort of set of circumstances. I mean, this was two, you know, high I mean, this was two, you know, high I mean, this was two, you know, high school seniors and this is tragic for a school seniors and this is tragic for a school seniors and this is tragic for a whole, you know, the for many different whole, you know, the for many different whole, you know, the for many different reasons, different reasons. But in the reasons, different reasons. But in the reasons, different reasons. But in the Derek Schovin trial, you know, and that Derek Schovin trial, you know, and that Derek Schovin trial, you know, and that was like the first big trial I covered was like the first big trial I covered was like the first big trial I covered for law and crime, uh, that was in for law and crime, uh, that was in for law and crime, uh, that was in Minnesota. And in Minnesota, cameras are Minnesota. And in Minnesota, cameras are Minnesota. And in Minnesota, cameras are not allowed in the courtroom. But Judge not allowed in the courtroom. But Judge not allowed in the courtroom. But Judge Cahill, Judge Peter Cahill, knew how Cahill, Judge Peter Cahill, knew how Cahill, Judge Peter Cahill, knew how important the case was and how there important the case was and how there important the case was and how there needed to be transparency needed to be transparency needed to be transparency and he permitted over the objection of and he permitted over the objection of and he permitted over the objection of the attorney general's office cameras to the attorney general's office cameras to the attorney general's office cameras to be in the courtroom. Wow. be in the courtroom. Wow. be in the courtroom. Wow. >> So, Court TV and law and crime, like >> So, Court TV and law and crime, like >> So, Court TV and law and crime, like everybody was streaming it, right? Court everybody was streaming it, right? Court everybody was streaming it, right? Court TV was the pool camera. Law and crime TV was the pool camera. Law and crime TV was the pool camera. Law and crime streamed it. And there are ways that you streamed it. And there are ways that you streamed it. And there are ways that you can do these things and stream these can do these things and stream these can do these things and stream these things while protecting the integrity of things while protecting the integrity of things while protecting the integrity of the proceedings.

the proceedings. the proceedings. >> Not not, you know, sensationalizing it, >> Not not, you know, sensationalizing it, >> Not not, you know, sensationalizing it, objectifying anything. Minor witnesses, objectifying anything. Minor witnesses, objectifying anything. Minor witnesses, >> just show their hands or the, you know, >> just show their hands or the, you know, >> just show their hands or the, you know, just use their audio, any anything. just use their audio, any anything. just use their audio, any anything. >> It it Yeah, we don't have to reinvent >> It it Yeah, we don't have to reinvent >> It it Yeah, we don't have to reinvent the wheel here. They've done it in many the wheel here. They've done it in many the wheel here. They've done it in many cases before. they easily could have cases before. they easily could have cases before. they easily could have done it here. And that was something I done it here. And that was something I done it here. And that was something I did not know about um did not know about um did not know about um uh the case out of Minnesota. I didn't uh the case out of Minnesota. I didn't uh the case out of Minnesota. I didn't know the judge did that even though that know the judge did that even though that know the judge did that even though that wasn't kind of the local rules. And I wasn't kind of the local rules. And I wasn't kind of the local rules. And I and I applaud that because and I applaud that because and I applaud that because >> that is exactly what I'm saying is >> that is exactly what I'm saying is >> that is exactly what I'm saying is realizing that hey, there's a lot of realizing that hey, there's a lot of realizing that hey, there's a lot of heat surrounding this case. And I heat surrounding this case. And I heat surrounding this case. And I certainly don't want this all to come certainly don't want this all to come certainly don't want this all to come down to which reporter happened to, you down to which reporter happened to, you down to which reporter happened to, you know, report one thing one way or the know, report one thing one way or the know, report one thing one way or the other. And I'm not trying to say other. And I'm not trying to say other. And I'm not trying to say reporters are are doing this with a reporters are are doing this with a reporters are are doing this with a bias. I'm just saying you can only bias. I'm just saying you can only bias. I'm just saying you can only remember so much and you're only going remember so much and you're only going remember so much and you're only going to interpret things as best as you can, to interpret things as best as you can, to interpret things as best as you can, you know. you know. you know. >> Well, and and there there was and you >> Well, and and there there was and you >> Well, and and there there was and you know, maybe we'll get the transcripts know, maybe we'll get the transcripts know, maybe we'll get the transcripts eventually, but there was misinformation eventually, but there was misinformation eventually, but there was misinformation coming out of that courtroom, Josh. I coming out of that courtroom, Josh. I coming out of that courtroom, Josh. I mean, people were coloring and shading mean, people were coloring and shading mean, people were coloring and shading what was coming out of that courtroom, what was coming out of that courtroom, what was coming out of that courtroom, >> and that is really unfortunate.

>> and that is really unfortunate. >> and that is really unfortunate. >> And you I think you lose a lot when >> And you I think you lose a lot when >> And you I think you lose a lot when you're just reading it in print when you you're just reading it in print when you you're just reading it in print when you you can't hear the tone of someone's you can't hear the tone of someone's you can't hear the tone of someone's voice. voice. voice. if they pause before answering a if they pause before answering a if they pause before answering a question, things of that nature. question, things of that nature. question, things of that nature. >> 100% 100%. Well, um, >> 100% 100%. Well, um, >> 100% 100%. Well, um, >> and I I do want to say it's tragic. I >> and I I do want to say it's tragic. I >> and I I do want to say it's tragic. I mean, I mean, I mean, I >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> It's sickening that two young men's >> It's sickening that two young men's >> It's sickening that two young men's lives are destroyed. You know, it's just lives are destroyed. You know, it's just lives are destroyed. You know, it's just >> over something. I've said this before. >> over something. I've said this before. >> over something. I've said this before. It should have ended with two black eyes It should have ended with two black eyes It should have ended with two black eyes in detention. in detention. in detention. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> And instead, you're you're ending, >> And instead, you're you're ending, >> And instead, you're you're ending, right? You're ending it with one man right? You're ending it with one man right? You're ending it with one man dead and the other man life dead and the other man life dead and the other man life forever changed. Very tragic. forever changed. Very tragic. forever changed. Very tragic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, let's leave that one for there uh >> Well, let's leave that one for there uh >> Well, let's leave that one for there uh for now and move instead to Miami date for now and move instead to Miami date for now and move instead to Miami date county, Florida, where proceedings are county, Florida, where proceedings are county, Florida, where proceedings are underway for a real estate developer underway for a real estate developer underway for a real estate developer charged in a fatal boat crash after the charged in a fatal boat crash after the charged in a fatal boat crash after the defendant's public breakdown during defendant's public breakdown during defendant's public breakdown during opening statements. George Pino faces opening statements. George Pino faces opening statements. George Pino faces charges of seconddegree manslaughter and charges of seconddegree manslaughter and charges of seconddegree manslaughter and ves vessel homicide for the crash that ves vessel homicide for the crash that ves vessel homicide for the crash that took the life of 17-year-old Lucy took the life of 17-year-old Lucy took the life of 17-year-old Lucy Fernandez. Pino was at the helm of a 29 Fernandez. Pino was at the helm of a 29 Fernandez. Pino was at the helm of a 29 ft boat with his wife, daughter, and 11 ft boat with his wife, daughter, and 11 ft boat with his wife, daughter, and 11 of his daughter's friends celebrating of his daughter's friends celebrating of his daughter's friends celebrating her birthday when the collision her birthday when the collision her birthday when the collision occurred. The vessel struck a high occurred. The vessel struck a high occurred. The vessel struck a high visibility channel marker at 47 mph, visibility channel marker at 47 mph, visibility channel marker at 47 mph, capsizing the boat and violently capsizing the boat and violently capsizing the boat and violently ejecting the passengers. Fernandez ejecting the passengers. Fernandez ejecting the passengers. Fernandez drowned as a result of her injuries and drowned as a result of her injuries and drowned as a result of her injuries and another team Kat Katrina Pig was left

another team Kat Katrina Pig was left another team Kat Katrina Pig was left permanently disabled. Prosecutors permanently disabled. Prosecutors permanently disabled. Prosecutors claimed that Pino acted recklessly with claimed that Pino acted recklessly with claimed that Pino acted recklessly with culpable negligence in the incident and culpable negligence in the incident and culpable negligence in the incident and maintain that alcohol played a role in maintain that alcohol played a role in maintain that alcohol played a role in the crash, though there are no boating the crash, though there are no boating the crash, though there are no boating under the influence charges. However, under the influence charges. However, under the influence charges. However, according to the incident report, there according to the incident report, there according to the incident report, there were 61 empty alcohol bottles and a can were 61 empty alcohol bottles and a can were 61 empty alcohol bottles and a can on the boat. And prosecutors claimed on the boat. And prosecutors claimed on the boat. And prosecutors claimed that Pino was also supplying the minors that Pino was also supplying the minors that Pino was also supplying the minors with drinks. Pino wasn't given a with drinks. Pino wasn't given a with drinks. Pino wasn't given a sobriety test at the time of the sobriety test at the time of the sobriety test at the time of the incident and maintains he only had two incident and maintains he only had two incident and maintains he only had two beers. That trial is ongoing and we will beers. That trial is ongoing and we will beers. That trial is ongoing and we will continue to update you as it moves continue to update you as it moves continue to update you as it moves forward. Uh and Janette, there's kind of forward. Uh and Janette, there's kind of forward. Uh and Janette, there's kind of an ongoing joke in law enforcement that an ongoing joke in law enforcement that an ongoing joke in law enforcement that whenever you pull somebody over who's whenever you pull somebody over who's whenever you pull somebody over who's been drinking, they always cop to. Yeah, been drinking, they always cop to. Yeah, been drinking, they always cop to. Yeah, I had a couple beers. Everybody on Earth I had a couple beers. Everybody on Earth I had a couple beers. Everybody on Earth who's ever been pulled over for a DUI who's ever been pulled over for a DUI who's ever been pulled over for a DUI has only ever had two beers. has only ever had two beers. has only ever had two beers. >> In this case, we've got a horrible >> In this case, we've got a horrible >> In this case, we've got a horrible accident at sea.

accident at sea. accident at sea. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Kids tossed into the ocean, one kid >> Kids tossed into the ocean, one kid >> Kids tossed into the ocean, one kid disabled, another lost their life, and disabled, another lost their life, and disabled, another lost their life, and they don't perform a test on this guy they don't perform a test on this guy they don't perform a test on this guy with all of the evidence of drinking on with all of the evidence of drinking on with all of the evidence of drinking on that boat. And now all we're left with that boat. And now all we're left with that boat. And now all we're left with is him saying, "Yeah, I had a couple of is him saying, "Yeah, I had a couple of is him saying, "Yeah, I had a couple of beers." And they haven't even charged beers." And they haven't even charged beers." And they haven't even charged him with that. him with that. him with that. >> That That is what's so shocking. I I >> That That is what's so shocking. I I >> That That is what's so shocking. I I cannot believe that this guy, you know, cannot believe that this guy, you know, cannot believe that this guy, you know, they find 61 bottles and, you know, cans they find 61 bottles and, you know, cans they find 61 bottles and, you know, cans of alcohol, beer. I think uh his wife of alcohol, beer. I think uh his wife of alcohol, beer. I think uh his wife actually testified that, you know, she actually testified that, you know, she actually testified that, you know, she was asked about a bottle of sham board. was asked about a bottle of sham board. was asked about a bottle of sham board. >> I mean, there was there was a whole >> I mean, there was there was a whole >> I mean, there was there was a whole bunch of stuff on that boat. And you bunch of stuff on that boat. And you bunch of stuff on that boat. And you don't give him after he hits a channel don't give him after he hits a channel don't give him after he hits a channel marker a field sobriety test. And and marker a field sobriety test. And and marker a field sobriety test. And and it's funny you bring up what you just it's funny you bring up what you just it's funny you bring up what you just said about the two beers. My mom for said about the two beers. My mom for said about the two beers. My mom for years was a chemical dependency years was a chemical dependency years was a chemical dependency therapist, you know, helping people get therapist, you know, helping people get therapist, you know, helping people get off of, you know, the sauce and drugs off of, you know, the sauce and drugs off of, you know, the sauce and drugs and stay clean and stay sober. and stay clean and stay sober. and stay clean and stay sober. >> And she always said, you know, when >> And she always said, you know, when >> And she always said, you know, when somebody who is a regular drinkle somebody who is a regular drinkle somebody who is a regular drinkle drinker says they only had a couple, drinker says they only had a couple, drinker says they only had a couple, that usually means like 10.

that usually means like 10. that usually means like 10. >> Um, so, you know, that I only had a >> Um, so, you know, that I only had a >> Um, so, you know, that I only had a couple of beers. You know, it couple of beers. You know, it couple of beers. You know, it >> I mean that's just that's a red flag to >> I mean that's just that's a red flag to >> I mean that's just that's a red flag to me. And I say that only because, me. And I say that only because, me. And I say that only because, you know, because of what I just told you know, because of what I just told you know, because of what I just told you because it it just you because it it just you because it it just >> it's a way for somebody to say, "I only >> it's a way for somebody to say, "I only >> it's a way for somebody to say, "I only had a couple." had a couple." had a couple." >> And then >> And then >> And then they can act like, "Oh, yeah. I have they can act like, "Oh, yeah. I have they can act like, "Oh, yeah. I have only a couple." It's just very uh only a couple." It's just very uh only a couple." It's just very uh nondescript. nondescript. nondescript. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's enough so >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's enough so >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's enough so that they feel like they can they can that they feel like they can they can that they feel like they can they can pass the sniff test sometimes even pass the sniff test sometimes even pass the sniff test sometimes even literally because they you know oh you literally because they you know oh you literally because they you know oh you smell alcohol on my breath. Well sure I smell alcohol on my breath. Well sure I smell alcohol on my breath. Well sure I had a couple beers but it's yet had a couple beers but it's yet had a couple beers but it's yet reasonable enough to still get behind reasonable enough to still get behind reasonable enough to still get behind the wheel of a car or or a a boat in the wheel of a car or or a a boat in the wheel of a car or or a a boat in this case. Um optics are a huge part of this case. Um optics are a huge part of this case. Um optics are a huge part of this case. So, first of all, you've got this case. So, first of all, you've got this case. So, first of all, you've got the optics of a bunch of kids drinking the optics of a bunch of kids drinking the optics of a bunch of kids drinking out on the ocean. They I I I'm not sure.

out on the ocean. They I I I'm not sure. out on the ocean. They I I I'm not sure. She's 17. So, they're all I'm going to She's 17. So, they're all I'm going to She's 17. So, they're all I'm going to guess underage. He's got them all guess underage. He's got them all guess underage. He's got them all drinking. I mean, you know, drinking. I mean, you know, drinking. I mean, you know, his wife, I imagine, didn't drink 61 his wife, I imagine, didn't drink 61 his wife, I imagine, didn't drink 61 bottles of of booze. So, all those kids bottles of of booze. So, all those kids bottles of of booze. So, all those kids are drinking. You've got the optics of are drinking. You've got the optics of are drinking. You've got the optics of that. You've got the optics of the fact that. You've got the optics of the fact that. You've got the optics of the fact that he's a um that he's a um that he's a um even even I think from what the jurors even even I think from what the jurors even even I think from what the jurors can put together probably a a person of can put together probably a a person of can put together probably a a person of means. I mean he's got this big boat and means. I mean he's got this big boat and means. I mean he's got this big boat and they're out having this big party and they're out having this big party and they're out having this big party and he's got a you know private high-priced he's got a you know private high-priced he's got a you know private high-priced attorney attorney attorney and then he breaks down in court during and then he breaks down in court during and then he breaks down in court during opening statements in a very visible way opening statements in a very visible way opening statements in a very visible way that we've all kind of seen that video. that we've all kind of seen that video. that we've all kind of seen that video. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I'm not going to try to influence your >> I'm not going to try to influence your >> I'm not going to try to influence your take on it. I have my take on it. But take on it. I have my take on it. But take on it. I have my take on it. But how do you think the optics of this is how do you think the optics of this is how do you think the optics of this is playing out for the jurors? playing out for the jurors? playing out for the jurors? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Well, you know, I I don't know. I mean, >> Well, you know, I I don't know. I mean, >> Well, you know, I I don't know. I mean, I it would depend on their background. I it would depend on their background. I it would depend on their background. Um that, you know, if they're as well Um that, you know, if they're as well Um that, you know, if they're as well healed as he is.

healed as he is. healed as he is. It just seems a little odd for a It just seems a little odd for a It just seems a little odd for a a grown man. You know, this isn't his a grown man. You know, this isn't his a grown man. You know, this isn't his daughter. I'm sure he is upset that this daughter. I'm sure he is upset that this daughter. I'm sure he is upset that this happened. This was his daughter's happened. This was his daughter's happened. This was his daughter's friend, Lucy, and Katie was his friend, Lucy, and Katie was his friend, Lucy, and Katie was his daughter's friend, but it seems um daughter's friend, but it seems um daughter's friend, but it seems um I don't know. I I don't want to be It I don't know. I I don't want to be It I don't know. I I don't want to be It seems a little contrived, you know, like seems a little contrived, you know, like seems a little contrived, you know, like it seems a little bit like a show. it seems a little bit like a show. it seems a little bit like a show. >> Um and maybe he's scared. Maybe he's >> Um and maybe he's scared. Maybe he's >> Um and maybe he's scared. Maybe he's super scared. I mean, you can be a super scared. I mean, you can be a super scared. I mean, you can be a little more frank. I'm trying to be little more frank. I'm trying to be little more frank. I'm trying to be polite here, Josh. And I was a little polite here, Josh. And I was a little polite here, Josh. And I was a little >> better. I thought it was completely >> better. I thought it was completely >> better. I thought it was completely phony of it seemed genuine to me. It it phony of it seemed genuine to me. It it phony of it seemed genuine to me. It it just seemed not only perfectly timed, just seemed not only perfectly timed, just seemed not only perfectly timed, but over wrought and overdone and and to but over wrought and overdone and and to but over wrought and overdone and and to me it it it appeared like a rich guy me it it it appeared like a rich guy me it it it appeared like a rich guy trying to get out of trouble, trying to, trying to get out of trouble, trying to, trying to get out of trouble, trying to, you know, had did something really you know, had did something really you know, had did something really really bad and he can't buy his way out really bad and he can't buy his way out really bad and he can't buy his way out of it. So now he's trying whatever way of it. So now he's trying whatever way of it. So now he's trying whatever way he can to get out of it. I don't think he can to get out of it. I don't think he can to get out of it. I don't think that landed with jurors the way he may that landed with jurors the way he may that landed with jurors the way he may have thought it would.

have thought it would. have thought it would. >> Well, the judge basically said like, >> Well, the judge basically said like, >> Well, the judge basically said like, "Okay, we're going to stop." And um you "Okay, we're going to stop." And um you "Okay, we're going to stop." And um you clean up your act and and pull it clean up your act and and pull it clean up your act and and pull it together for tomorrow or else you can go together for tomorrow or else you can go together for tomorrow or else you can go sit in another room and listen to the sit in another room and listen to the sit in another room and listen to the testimony. So I mean obviously the judge testimony. So I mean obviously the judge testimony. So I mean obviously the judge wasn't buying it. wasn't buying it. wasn't buying it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. I don't >> Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. I don't >> Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. I don't know this man and I you know who knows know this man and I you know who knows know this man and I you know who knows he may he may be completely distraught he may he may be completely distraught he may he may be completely distraught and beside himself since this all took and beside himself since this all took and beside himself since this all took place. Uh, and I'm certainly not trying place. Uh, and I'm certainly not trying place. Uh, and I'm certainly not trying to say that, uh, you know, every person to say that, uh, you know, every person to say that, uh, you know, every person who's on trial, uh, you know, is not who's on trial, uh, you know, is not who's on trial, uh, you know, is not allowed to feel emotion for what they're allowed to feel emotion for what they're allowed to feel emotion for what they're going through, but it just to me, going through, but it just to me, going through, but it just to me, this this whole thing screams of kind of this this whole thing screams of kind of this this whole thing screams of kind of entitlement and even down to the kind of entitlement and even down to the kind of entitlement and even down to the kind of emotional breakdown that took place in emotional breakdown that took place in emotional breakdown that took place in court. court. court. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. It reminds me of the It reminds me of It reminds me of the It reminds me of It reminds me of the It reminds me of the boat crash in the M Murdoch case the boat crash in the M Murdoch case the boat crash in the M Murdoch case with Paul Murdoch.

with Paul Murdoch. with Paul Murdoch. >> Um, you know, >> Um, you know, >> Um, you know, obviously he was a younger man. obviously he was a younger man. obviously he was a younger man. >> Same kind of deal. Same kind of >> Same kind of deal. Same kind of >> Same kind of deal. Same kind of entitlement. Yeah. entitlement. Yeah. entitlement. Yeah. >> Yeah. A a young, you know, wellto-do kid >> Yeah. A a young, you know, wellto-do kid >> Yeah. A a young, you know, wellto-do kid driving his parents' boat crashes. driving his parents' boat crashes. driving his parents' boat crashes. Horrific. People are injured. A young Horrific. People are injured. A young Horrific. People are injured. A young beautiful blonde woman dies. Um, beautiful blonde woman dies. Um, beautiful blonde woman dies. Um, obviously we never got to a trial in obviously we never got to a trial in obviously we never got to a trial in that case because Paul was murdered. Uh, that case because Paul was murdered. Uh, that case because Paul was murdered. Uh, but but similar circumstances, you know, but but similar circumstances, you know, but but similar circumstances, you know, similar circumstances. similar circumstances. similar circumstances. >> Yeah. Yeah. And the unfortunate part is >> Yeah. Yeah. And the unfortunate part is >> Yeah. Yeah. And the unfortunate part is because they didn't test him for because they didn't test him for because they didn't test him for alcohol, now all we're left with is just alcohol, now all we're left with is just alcohol, now all we're left with is just trying to argue this bizarre kind of trying to argue this bizarre kind of trying to argue this bizarre kind of reckless boating thing, which I why I reckless boating thing, which I why I reckless boating thing, which I why I call it bizarre is because it's not the call it bizarre is because it's not the call it bizarre is because it's not the same thing that jurors can easily wrap same thing that jurors can easily wrap same thing that jurors can easily wrap their head around. You you tell jurors their head around. You you tell jurors their head around. You you tell jurors that a person was going 60 m hour in a that a person was going 60 m hour in a that a person was going 60 m hour in a 15 mile hour zone and they ran through a 15 mile hour zone and they ran through a 15 mile hour zone and they ran through a red light. Everybody understands what red light. Everybody understands what red light. Everybody understands what that means. But you tell the person that that means. But you tell the person that that means. But you tell the person that they were going 47 on the open ocean and they were going 47 on the open ocean and they were going 47 on the open ocean and then they hit a marker. I don't know if then they hit a marker. I don't know if then they hit a marker. I don't know if they know how reckless that ex exactly they know how reckless that ex exactly they know how reckless that ex exactly translates to. So they're going to have translates to. So they're going to have translates to. So they're going to have to explain to people just how incredibly to explain to people just how incredibly to explain to people just how incredibly reckless that was without the benefit of reckless that was without the benefit of reckless that was without the benefit of saying and oh by the way he was drunk at saying and oh by the way he was drunk at saying and oh by the way he was drunk at the time.

the time. the time. >> Right. and and but also too, I mean, I >> Right. and and but also too, I mean, I >> Right. and and but also too, I mean, I think it I think they lose a lot without think it I think they lose a lot without think it I think they lose a lot without the field sobriety test and and all of the field sobriety test and and all of the field sobriety test and and all of that, but and without, you know, some that, but and without, you know, some that, but and without, you know, some more evidence on that front, but more evidence on that front, but more evidence on that front, but >> you're you're driving around with 61 >> you're you're driving around with 61 >> you're you're driving around with 61 bottles bottles bottles of [clears throat] booze. I mean, there of [clears throat] booze. I mean, there of [clears throat] booze. I mean, there there's certainly a reasonable inference there's certainly a reasonable inference there's certainly a reasonable inference there. Yeah. there. Yeah. there. Yeah. >> And and you can be impaired. You can >> And and you can be impaired. You can >> And and you can be impaired. You can still He's admitted that he had a couple still He's admitted that he had a couple still He's admitted that he had a couple of beers. So, it doesn't mean you can't of beers. So, it doesn't mean you can't of beers. So, it doesn't mean you can't be impaired. be impaired. be impaired. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> A couple of beers. I mean, people are >> A couple of beers. I mean, people are >> A couple of beers. I mean, people are just assuming that, oh, he's a man. He just assuming that, oh, he's a man. He just assuming that, oh, he's a man. He can't be in he can't be impaired with a can't be in he can't be impaired with a can't be in he can't be impaired with a couple of beers. That's not true. We couple of beers. That's not true. We couple of beers. That's not true. We don't know how quickly. Like, he don't don't know how quickly. Like, he don't don't know how quickly. Like, he don't who knows like, did he have beers over who knows like, did he have beers over who knows like, did he have beers over several hours or did he pound these several hours or did he pound these several hours or did he pound these things? Who knows? Another things? Who knows? Another things? Who knows? Another tragic case, people whose lives were tragic case, people whose lives were tragic case, people whose lives were lost uh when they didn't need to be, lost uh when they didn't need to be, lost uh when they didn't need to be, easily avoidable. And so we'll continue easily avoidable. And so we'll continue easily avoidable. And so we'll continue to follow that one. It's currently in to follow that one. It's currently in to follow that one. It's currently in trial right now. Let's move to our final trial right now. Let's move to our final trial right now. Let's move to our final case out of Los Angeles, California, case out of Los Angeles, California, case out of Los Angeles, California, where the federal arson trial is where the federal arson trial is where the federal arson trial is underway for the man accused of starting underway for the man accused of starting underway for the man accused of starting the blaze that eventually became the the blaze that eventually became the the blaze that eventually became the Palisades fire after the devastation of Palisades fire after the devastation of Palisades fire after the devastation of thousands of homes. Prosecutors say that thousands of homes. Prosecutors say that thousands of homes. Prosecutors say that Jonathan Rendernick started a brush fire Jonathan Rendernick started a brush fire Jonathan Rendernick started a brush fire known as the Lochman fire on January 1st known as the Lochman fire on January 1st known as the Lochman fire on January 1st of 2025. While firefighters extinguished of 2025. While firefighters extinguished of 2025. While firefighters extinguished that fire, it allegedly continued to that fire, it allegedly continued to that fire, it allegedly continued to burn undetected in root systems before

burn undetected in root systems before burn undetected in root systems before flaring up one week later into the flaring up one week later into the flaring up one week later into the destructive Palisades fire. Renderneck's destructive Palisades fire. Renderneck's destructive Palisades fire. Renderneck's defense claims that the man is being defense claims that the man is being defense claims that the man is being used as a scapegoat, alleging that the used as a scapegoat, alleging that the used as a scapegoat, alleging that the fire department failed to fully fire department failed to fully fire department failed to fully extinguish the blaze, making the fires extinguish the blaze, making the fires extinguish the blaze, making the fires to um making the fires two separate to um making the fires two separate to um making the fires two separate incidents. News of the trial has been incidents. News of the trial has been incidents. News of the trial has been met with mixed emotions from Palisades met with mixed emotions from Palisades met with mixed emotions from Palisades residents who lost their homes in the residents who lost their homes in the residents who lost their homes in the fire as many are still fighting fire as many are still fighting fire as many are still fighting insurance claims and struggling to insurance claims and struggling to insurance claims and struggling to rebuild. The trial is expected to last rebuild. The trial is expected to last rebuild. The trial is expected to last around 2 weeks and we will be watching around 2 weeks and we will be watching around 2 weeks and we will be watching this one closely. Um, this one closely. Um, this one closely. Um, talk to me first about this idea. talk to me first about this idea. talk to me first about this idea. I think this is a big problem. The idea I think this is a big problem. The idea I think this is a big problem. The idea that he started one fire, that fire did that he started one fire, that fire did that he started one fire, that fire did not cause all of the damage that he's not cause all of the damage that he's not cause all of the damage that he's being charged with now. That fire was being charged with now. That fire was being charged with now. That fire was extinguished. And what what we're being extinguished. And what what we're being extinguished. And what what we're being told by prosecutors remains smoldering told by prosecutors remains smoldering told by prosecutors remains smoldering in a root system in a root system in a root system >> before the weather conditions were just >> before the weather conditions were just >> before the weather conditions were just right. I put that in quotes, right. I put that in quotes, right. I put that in quotes, >> just awful enough so that it reignited >> just awful enough so that it reignited >> just awful enough so that it reignited and started the Palisades fire, which we and started the Palisades fire, which we and started the Palisades fire, which we all know caused, you know, incalculable all know caused, you know, incalculable all know caused, you know, incalculable devastation to the Los Angeles area.

devastation to the Los Angeles area. devastation to the Los Angeles area. That's what he's being charged with. That's what he's being charged with. That's what he's being charged with. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> Is that going to be difficult for >> Is that going to be difficult for >> Is that going to be difficult for prosecutors to explain to jurors? Is prosecutors to explain to jurors? Is prosecutors to explain to jurors? Is that is that is there room enough there that is that is there room enough there that is that is there room enough there for the defense to get in and say, "Wait for the defense to get in and say, "Wait for the defense to get in and say, "Wait a minute. What are we doing here? He a minute. What are we doing here? He a minute. What are we doing here? He didn't do this fire. He did another didn't do this fire. He did another didn't do this fire. He did another fire." fire." fire." >> Well, you know, there may be some room >> Well, you know, there may be some room >> Well, you know, there may be some room for reasonable doubt here. You know, for reasonable doubt here. You know, for reasonable doubt here. You know, they they always say the feds don't file they they always say the feds don't file they they always say the feds don't file charges. You know, the Fed's always like charges. You know, the Fed's always like charges. You know, the Fed's always like a good slam dunk. they have like what a a good slam dunk. they have like what a a good slam dunk. they have like what a 95% 95% 95% conviction rate or something crazy like conviction rate or something crazy like conviction rate or something crazy like that. that. that. >> Um but there may be some room for >> Um but there may be some room for >> Um but there may be some room for reasonable doubt here. Um but you know reasonable doubt here. Um but you know reasonable doubt here. Um but you know that that that >> he did set I mean it sounds like they >> he did set I mean it sounds like they >> he did set I mean it sounds like they have some good evidence that he set the have some good evidence that he set the have some good evidence that he set the Lochman fire, right? Yes. So, um, if Lochman fire, right? Yes. So, um, if Lochman fire, right? Yes. So, um, if they can show somehow that it wasn't they can show somehow that it wasn't they can show somehow that it wasn't fully extinguished, because if you go fully extinguished, because if you go fully extinguished, because if you go through the criminal complaint, um, and through the criminal complaint, um, and through the criminal complaint, um, and I covered this, uh, right when this I covered this, uh, right when this I covered this, uh, right when this thing dropped, and it was shocking to thing dropped, and it was shocking to thing dropped, and it was shocking to read it actually, the way they laid it read it actually, the way they laid it read it actually, the way they laid it out, um, you know, they do have some, he out, um, you know, they do have some, he out, um, you know, they do have some, he was driving an Uber that night. He's was driving an Uber that night. He's was driving an Uber that night. He's driving around that area. They have his driving around that area. They have his driving around that area. They have his cell phone going up to that uh that cell phone going up to that uh that cell phone going up to that uh that clearing, that one area, and they clearing, that one area, and they clearing, that one area, and they included a bunch of photos and and they included a bunch of photos and and they included a bunch of photos and and they have this way that they believe they can have this way that they believe they can have this way that they believe they can like trace it to show that this fire was like trace it to show that this fire was like trace it to show that this fire was smoldering underground. I find it crazy smoldering underground. I find it crazy smoldering underground. I find it crazy that a fire could smolder underground that a fire could smolder underground that a fire could smolder underground for that long and then just erupt

for that long and then just erupt for that long and then just erupt >> um suddenly >> um suddenly >> um suddenly >> because it it wasn't fully extinguished. >> because it it wasn't fully extinguished. >> because it it wasn't fully extinguished. So So maybe he maybe he's got some So So maybe he maybe he's got some So So maybe he maybe he's got some really good lawyers who will be able to, really good lawyers who will be able to, really good lawyers who will be able to, you know, cast some doubt here. you know, cast some doubt here. you know, cast some doubt here. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I just, you know, they could make I I I just, you know, they could make I I I just, you know, they could make the arguments about, listen, you start a the arguments about, listen, you start a the arguments about, listen, you start a fire, you intended to cause damage. You fire, you intended to cause damage. You fire, you intended to cause damage. You intended to cause exactly what was intended to cause exactly what was intended to cause exactly what was caused by the Palisades fire. You don't caused by the Palisades fire. You don't caused by the Palisades fire. You don't get the benefit uh of saying of saying get the benefit uh of saying of saying get the benefit uh of saying of saying that well pro uh firework fighters put that well pro uh firework fighters put that well pro uh firework fighters put that fire out. But if they did, that fire out. But if they did, that fire out. But if they did, [laughter] like in other words, if they [laughter] like in other words, if they [laughter] like in other words, if they cannot make that connection between cannot make that connection between cannot make that connection between those two fires, then we're talking those two fires, then we're talking those two fires, then we're talking about a totally separate fire and you're about a totally separate fire and you're about a totally separate fire and you're you're prosecuting someone for a fire you're prosecuting someone for a fire you're prosecuting someone for a fire they didn't start. Though they may have they didn't start. Though they may have they didn't start. Though they may have wanted to start it, they may not they wanted to start it, they may not they wanted to start it, they may not they may not be able to show that he actually may not be able to show that he actually may not be able to show that he actually did start it. That's where I think the did start it. That's where I think the did start it. That's where I think the biggest amount of question for me is biggest amount of question for me is biggest amount of question for me is going to come up. The other thing is um going to come up. The other thing is um going to come up. The other thing is um let's get to the part that works against let's get to the part that works against let's get to the part that works against him is that nearly everyone in the Los him is that nearly everyone in the Los him is that nearly everyone in the Los Angeles area was affected by this. They Angeles area was affected by this. They Angeles area was affected by this. They many people had their homes burned down many people had their homes burned down many people had their homes burned down or you knew somebody that had their home or you knew somebody that had their home or you knew somebody that had their home burned down or has affected you burned down or has affected you burned down or has affected you economically or it's just continuing to economically or it's just continuing to economically or it's just continuing to be a part of of the the politics in the be a part of of the the politics in the be a part of of the the politics in the Los Angeles area. How um you know, we Los Angeles area. How um you know, we Los Angeles area. How um you know, we talk a lot about moving trials because

talk a lot about moving trials because talk a lot about moving trials because how do you find a jury uh that's going how do you find a jury uh that's going how do you find a jury uh that's going to be fair and and balanced? I do you to be fair and and balanced? I do you to be fair and and balanced? I do you think that that enough of that noise think that that enough of that noise think that that enough of that noise might seep its way into the uh might seep its way into the uh might seep its way into the uh courtroom? [snorts] >> It it might it might uh but you may be >> It it might it might uh but you may be able to pull some jurors who maybe able to pull some jurors who maybe able to pull some jurors who maybe weren't impacted. I mean, as you said, weren't impacted. I mean, as you said, weren't impacted. I mean, as you said, it's going to be difficult because it's going to be difficult because it's going to be difficult because >> basically, >> basically, >> basically, >> you know, that it's it's a it's a big >> you know, that it's it's a it's a big >> you know, that it's it's a it's a big district, but basically, you know, the district, but basically, you know, the district, but basically, you know, the lion share of the people in that lion share of the people in that lion share of the people in that district were impacted by the fires in district were impacted by the fires in district were impacted by the fires in in some way. And it it it was it didn't in some way. And it it it was it didn't in some way. And it it it was it didn't it's not that far removed. I mean, and it's not that far removed. I mean, and it's not that far removed. I mean, and it's a huge topic of discussion right it's a huge topic of discussion right it's a huge topic of discussion right now in the mayor's race. now in the mayor's race. now in the mayor's race. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, so that's going on right now. um >> Um, so that's going on right now. um >> Um, so that's going on right now. um with Karen Bass and uh her opponent who with Karen Bass and uh her opponent who with Karen Bass and uh her opponent who is not going to be Spencer Pratt, but is not going to be Spencer Pratt, but is not going to be Spencer Pratt, but you know in in the election in November. you know in in the election in November. you know in in the election in November. So I mean there's a lot playing against So I mean there's a lot playing against So I mean there's a lot playing against this guy uh Renderneck but I don't know this guy uh Renderneck but I don't know this guy uh Renderneck but I don't know I'm sure that they can just weed it out I'm sure that they can just weed it out I'm sure that they can just weed it out through a pretty intense voadier.

through a pretty intense voadier. through a pretty intense voadier. >> Yeah. Last question on this. The judge >> Yeah. Last question on this. The judge >> Yeah. Last question on this. The judge made an interesting ruling in this case. made an interesting ruling in this case. made an interesting ruling in this case. Um, one of the pieces of evidence the Um, one of the pieces of evidence the Um, one of the pieces of evidence the prosecutors had was uh AI generated prosecutors had was uh AI generated prosecutors had was uh AI generated images that they found on his phone images that they found on his phone images that they found on his phone which showed the city in flames which showed the city in flames which showed the city in flames essentially. essentially. essentially. >> And his prompts to the AI uh to generate >> And his prompts to the AI uh to generate >> And his prompts to the AI uh to generate these images was basically you know show these images was basically you know show these images was basically you know show me the world burning down and all the me the world burning down and all the me the world burning down and all the rich people uh you know burning. The rich people uh you know burning. The rich people uh you know burning. The judge said, "I'm going to allow the judge said, "I'm going to allow the judge said, "I'm going to allow the prompts that you made to AI to come in, prompts that you made to AI to come in, prompts that you made to AI to come in, the words that you used, but I'm not the words that you used, but I'm not the words that you used, but I'm not going to allow the AI generated images going to allow the AI generated images going to allow the AI generated images because I feel that those might be too because I feel that those might be too because I feel that those might be too prejuditial to the jury." What is your prejuditial to the jury." What is your prejuditial to the jury." What is your take on that? take on that? take on that? >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, that's interesting. Uh, they are AI. Um, that's interesting. Uh, they are AI. Um, that's interesting. Uh, they are AI. Um, and maybe he felt maybe even though and maybe he felt maybe even though and maybe he felt maybe even though maybe because he didn't he did the maybe because he didn't he did the maybe because he didn't he did the prompts, maybe the judge thinks, prompts, maybe the judge thinks, prompts, maybe the judge thinks, >> you know, I'll split the baby here. The >> you know, I'll split the baby here. The >> you know, I'll split the baby here. The prompts are enough prompts are enough prompts are enough >> and the imagery itself because he even >> and the imagery itself because he even >> and the imagery itself because he even though he put the prompts in, he didn't though he put the prompts in, he didn't though he put the prompts in, he didn't physically himself paint these images.

physically himself paint these images. physically himself paint these images. It would be different if he had actually It would be different if he had actually It would be different if he had actually physically created them. um he just physically created them. um he just physically created them. um he just told, you know, a chatbot or whatever to told, you know, a chatbot or whatever to told, you know, a chatbot or whatever to do this. I I mean, maybe the judge is do this. I I mean, maybe the judge is do this. I I mean, maybe the judge is trying to give the defense something, trying to give the defense something, trying to give the defense something, but also give the government something. but also give the government something. but also give the government something. Um so I think that's fair. I I I think Um so I think that's fair. I I I think Um so I think that's fair. I I I think that's fair. that's fair. that's fair. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I though I don't think a jury is Yeah. I I though I don't think a jury is Yeah. I I though I don't think a jury is going to convict him based upon those going to convict him based upon those going to convict him based upon those photos. Um I do agree with you that it's photos. Um I do agree with you that it's photos. Um I do agree with you that it's it's like he owns the words, but he it's like he owns the words, but he it's like he owns the words, but he doesn't really own those images. He doesn't really own those images. He doesn't really own those images. He didn't he didn't really make them. He didn't he didn't really make them. He didn't he didn't really make them. He may have encouraged the the AI the to to may have encouraged the the AI the to to may have encouraged the the AI the to to generate it, but he didn't really have a generate it, but he didn't really have a generate it, but he didn't really have a hand in what they ended up looking like hand in what they ended up looking like hand in what they ended up looking like other than the prompts that he used. So, other than the prompts that he used. So, other than the prompts that he used. So, >> anyhow, that trial continuing to go on, >> anyhow, that trial continuing to go on, >> anyhow, that trial continuing to go on, something that we will follow closely, something that we will follow closely, something that we will follow closely, something that obviously, uh, me being something that obviously, uh, me being something that obviously, uh, me being here in the LA area, uh, I'm very, uh, here in the LA area, uh, I'm very, uh, here in the LA area, uh, I'm very, uh, curious to see how that all ends up. Uh, curious to see how that all ends up. Uh, curious to see how that all ends up. Uh, but that's it for us this week. Anget, but that's it for us this week. Anget, but that's it for us this week. Anget, thank you so much. Where can people find thank you so much. Where can people find thank you so much. Where can people find out more about you?

out more about you? out more about you? >> Uh, I'm on Twitter, X, I should say. >> Uh, I'm on Twitter, X, I should say. >> Uh, I'm on Twitter, X, I should say. Sorry, I keep old habit. Uh, Xangette Sorry, I keep old habit. Uh, Xangette Sorry, I keep old habit. Uh, Xangette 5, Instagram, Ananette. I'm on Tik Tok, 5, Instagram, Ananette. I'm on Tik Tok, 5, Instagram, Ananette. I'm on Tik Tok, but I rarely use it. Um, and check out, but I rarely use it. Um, and check out, but I rarely use it. Um, and check out, you know, Law and Crimes YouTube you know, Law and Crimes YouTube you know, Law and Crimes YouTube channel. I host Crime Fix with Anette channel. I host Crime Fix with Anette channel. I host Crime Fix with Anette Levy, a daily podcast. Um, we have a Levy, a daily podcast. Um, we have a Levy, a daily podcast. Um, we have a bunch of podcasts on there that you bunch of podcasts on there that you bunch of podcasts on there that you should check out with coverage of all should check out with coverage of all should check out with coverage of all kinds of cases. And also check out Court kinds of cases. And also check out Court kinds of cases. And also check out Court TV. TV. TV. Yes. Because you're now all all married Yes. Because you're now all all married Yes. Because you're now all all married up together. Yeah. up together. Yeah. up together. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. We're all >> Yes. Yes. We're all >> Yes. Yes. We're all >> And you've got your own YouTube channel, >> And you've got your own YouTube channel, >> And you've got your own YouTube channel, too. too. too. >> I do. I I just go on there on Saturday >> I do. I I just go on there on Saturday >> I do. I I just go on there on Saturday nights and have, you know, chat about nights and have, you know, chat about nights and have, you know, chat about about cases. So, about cases. So, about cases. So, >> good. Well, every I I encourage >> good. Well, every I I encourage >> good. Well, every I I encourage everybody to check out all of that stuff everybody to check out all of that stuff everybody to check out all of that stuff for for more of Eng. I am your host, for for more of Eng. I am your host, for for more of Eng. I am your host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on Josh Ritter. You can find me on Josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter or X at Joshua Instagram and Twitter or X at Joshua Instagram and Twitter or X at Joshua Ritter ESQ. And if you want to hear my Ritter ESQ. And if you want to hear my Ritter ESQ. And if you want to hear my thoughts and coverage on even more true thoughts and coverage on even more true thoughts and coverage on even more true crime cases, you can also check out my crime cases, you can also check out my crime cases, you can also check out my YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. And you can, of course, find all of our And you can, of course, find all of our And you can, of course, find all of our sidebar episodes wherever you get your sidebar episodes wherever you get your sidebar episodes wherever you get your podcast. And we would like to hear from podcast. And we would like to hear from podcast. And we would like to hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you'd like us to address, tweet us your you'd like us to address, tweet us your you'd like us to address, tweet us your questions with the #TCN sidebar. And questions with the #TCN sidebar. And questions with the #TCN sidebar. And thank you for joining us at the True thank you for joining us at the True thank you for joining us at the True Crime [music] News Sidebar.