Could ransom notes hold key to Nancy Guthrie’s kidnappers? | Luigi Mangione wants trial livestreamed

Hello and welcome to the sidebar Hello and welcome to the sidebar presented by True Crime News taking you presented by True Crime News taking you presented by True Crime News taking you inside the courtrooms of high profile inside the courtrooms of high profile inside the courtrooms of high profile and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host Joshua Ritter. I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County prosecutor for over a decade. We're prosecutor for over a decade. We're prosecutor for over a decade. We're recording this on Wednesday, August 5th, recording this on Wednesday, August 5th, recording this on Wednesday, August 5th, 2026. In this week's episode, the 2026. In this week's episode, the 2026. In this week's episode, the alleged assassin of a healthcare CEO is alleged assassin of a healthcare CEO is alleged assassin of a healthcare CEO is seeking to televise his trial in an seeking to televise his trial in an seeking to televise his trial in an unprecedented move. Plus a Massachusetts unprecedented move. Plus a Massachusetts unprecedented move. Plus a Massachusetts woman's disturbing journal entries read woman's disturbing journal entries read woman's disturbing journal entries read aloud in court detailing the days before aloud in court detailing the days before aloud in court detailing the days before she allegedly strangled her three young she allegedly strangled her three young she allegedly strangled her three young children to death. But first, for the children to death. But first, for the children to death. But first, for the first time we get a look at the actual first time we get a look at the actual first time we get a look at the actual ransom notes in the Nancy Guthrie case ransom notes in the Nancy Guthrie case ransom notes in the Nancy Guthrie case as investigators seek information on the as investigators seek information on the as investigators seek information on the 84-year-old's abductors. Let's get right 84-year-old's abductors. Let's get right 84-year-old's abductors. Let's get right into it. into it. into it. First out of Pima County, Arizona, 6 First out of Pima County, Arizona, 6 First out of Pima County, Arizona, 6 months after Nancy Guthrie's abduction, months after Nancy Guthrie's abduction, months after Nancy Guthrie's abduction, authorities have released two ransom authorities have released two ransom authorities have released two ransom notes in hopes of identifying the notes in hopes of identifying the notes in hopes of identifying the woman's kidnappers. The first note woman's kidnappers. The first note woman's kidnappers. The first note directed to Guthrie Guthrie's daughter, directed to Guthrie Guthrie's daughter, directed to Guthrie Guthrie's daughter, Today Show host Savannah Guthrie, sought Today Show host Savannah Guthrie, sought Today Show host Savannah Guthrie, sought a $4 million Bitcoin ransom with an a $4 million Bitcoin ransom with an a $4 million Bitcoin ransom with an escalating premium for any delays.

escalating premium for any delays. escalating premium for any delays. Meanwhile, the second note written to Meanwhile, the second note written to Meanwhile, the second note written to the whole Guthrie family expressed the whole Guthrie family expressed the whole Guthrie family expressed regret for Guthrie's passing maintaining regret for Guthrie's passing maintaining regret for Guthrie's passing maintaining that it was never the captor's intention that it was never the captor's intention that it was never the captor's intention to harm the elderly woman. Law to harm the elderly woman. Law to harm the elderly woman. Law enforcement officials are hopeful that enforcement officials are hopeful that enforcement officials are hopeful that the release of the notes could identify the release of the notes could identify the release of the notes could identify writing patterns or details leading to a writing patterns or details leading to a writing patterns or details leading to a suspect. Savannah took to social media suspect. Savannah took to social media suspect. Savannah took to social media echoing these hopes, again pleading for echoing these hopes, again pleading for echoing these hopes, again pleading for the public's help in identifying her the public's help in identifying her the public's help in identifying her mother's captors and finding Guthrie's mother's captors and finding Guthrie's mother's captors and finding Guthrie's bodies. bodies. bodies. I have the notes here. They're not all I have the notes here. They're not all I have the notes here. They're not all that long, so I thought I would just go that long, so I thought I would just go that long, so I thought I would just go ahead and read it ahead and read it ahead and read it to you all so that you had it and we to you all so that you had it and we to you all so that you had it and we could discuss it. The first is uh first could discuss it. The first is uh first could discuss it. The first is uh first of all, they're sent into it looks like of all, they're sent into it looks like of all, they're sent into it looks like what would be a news tip line. what would be a news tip line. what would be a news tip line. Um so they're not direct emails. They're Um so they're not direct emails. They're Um so they're not direct emails. They're emails that a person would write emails that a person would write emails that a person would write in through the website service, in through the website service, in through the website service, uh which would explain why they might be uh which would explain why they might be uh which would explain why they might be difficult uh to track down where these difficult uh to track down where these difficult uh to track down where these are being sent from. are being sent from. are being sent from. But the first one says, "Hello Savannah, But the first one says, "Hello Savannah, But the first one says, "Hello Savannah, we have your mother Nancy. She is safe we have your mother Nancy. She is safe we have your mother Nancy. She is safe but scared. She will be held for ransom but scared. She will be held for ransom but scared. She will be held for ransom and once payment is received, she will and once payment is received, she will and once payment is received, she will be released unharmed. We will be holding be released unharmed. We will be holding be released unharmed. We will be holding her for a maximum of 7 days. You will her for a maximum of 7 days. You will her for a maximum of 7 days. You will need to send Bitcoin in the amount of 4 need to send Bitcoin in the amount of 4 need to send Bitcoin in the amount of 4 million USD before 5:00 p.m. on Thursday million USD before 5:00 p.m. on Thursday million USD before 5:00 p.m. on Thursday the 5th. If payment is not received, the the 5th. If payment is not received, the the 5th. If payment is not received, the ransom will be increased to 6 million ransom will be increased to 6 million ransom will be increased to 6 million USD, which will need to be paid by 5:00 USD, which will need to be paid by 5:00 USD, which will need to be paid by 5:00 p.m. on Monday the 9th.

p.m. on Monday the 9th. p.m. on Monday the 9th. Once payment is received to the Bitcoin Once payment is received to the Bitcoin Once payment is received to the Bitcoin address below, she will be released address below, she will be released address below, she will be released within 12 hours of deposit to a safe within 12 hours of deposit to a safe within 12 hours of deposit to a safe drop-off location back in Tucson. If drop-off location back in Tucson. If drop-off location back in Tucson. If payment is not received by the last payment is not received by the last payment is not received by the last deadline on Monday the 9th at 5:00 p.m., deadline on Monday the 9th at 5:00 p.m., deadline on Monday the 9th at 5:00 p.m., she will be killed. Your mother is aware she will be killed. Your mother is aware she will be killed. Your mother is aware of this and her life is in your hands. of this and her life is in your hands. of this and her life is in your hands. It is of It is in the best interest of It is of It is in the best interest of It is of It is in the best interest of everyone to have this completed as soon everyone to have this completed as soon everyone to have this completed as soon as possible. You will not be able to as possible. You will not be able to as possible. You will not be able to contact me from here on out. There will contact me from here on out. There will contact me from here on out. There will be no negotiation. Do not play games. be no negotiation. Do not play games. be no negotiation. Do not play games. Law enforcement will not be able to help Law enforcement will not be able to help Law enforcement will not be able to help you. There is some portions of this that you. There is some portions of this that you. There is some portions of this that is redacted, but then the final sentence is redacted, but then the final sentence is redacted, but then the final sentence says, "She had a white a white says, "She had a white a white says, "She had a white a white smartwatch on the floor of the foot of smartwatch on the floor of the foot of smartwatch on the floor of the foot of her bed and the white floodlight in her bed and the white floodlight in her bed and the white floodlight in backyard was destroyed." backyard was destroyed." backyard was destroyed." Um Um Um that is the first note. Immediately that is the first note. Immediately that is the first note. Immediately um um um kind of apparent is the thoroughness of kind of apparent is the thoroughness of kind of apparent is the thoroughness of the note.

the note. the note. It does seem to offer more information It does seem to offer more information It does seem to offer more information than would even be necessary. than would even be necessary. than would even be necessary. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> It also to me reads like a person who's, >> It also to me reads like a person who's, >> It also to me reads like a person who's, you know, fairly educated. Uh the you know, fairly educated. Uh the you know, fairly educated. Uh the grammar is not off, the spelling is not grammar is not off, the spelling is not grammar is not off, the spelling is not off. off. off. Um Um Um and it also refers to the writer as being a we. the writer as being a we. Several times it says we. Several times it says we. Several times it says we. Um but but interestingly as well it doesn't serve what most of these it doesn't serve what most of these ransom ransom ransom notes usually serve in cases where we've notes usually serve in cases where we've notes usually serve in cases where we've seen where they're legitimate seen where they're legitimate seen where they're legitimate where there does open up some means of where there does open up some means of where there does open up some means of communication. communication. communication. This says you will not be able to This says you will not be able to This says you will not be able to contact me from here on out. There will contact me from here on out. There will contact me from here on out. There will be no negotiation. be no negotiation. be no negotiation. So it doesn't say So it doesn't say So it doesn't say you know, obviously it did include a you know, obviously it did include a you know, obviously it did include a Bitcoin address, but it doesn't say Bitcoin address, but it doesn't say Bitcoin address, but it doesn't say um um um you know, what will happen, how it will you know, what will happen, how it will you know, what will happen, how it will happen, where she will be released, what happen, where she will be released, what happen, where she will be released, what they should do afterwards.

they should do afterwards. they should do afterwards. It is asking for a tremendous leap of It is asking for a tremendous leap of It is asking for a tremendous leap of faith faith faith while being very threatening to the while being very threatening to the while being very threatening to the Guthrie family. Guthrie family. Guthrie family. The second note, The second note, The second note, um they believe to be from the same um they believe to be from the same um they believe to be from the same author or authors. author or authors. author or authors. It's transmitted in the same mechanism. It's transmitted in the same mechanism. It's transmitted in the same mechanism. Um the syntax and Um the syntax and Um the syntax and just kind of the tone of the writer just kind of the tone of the writer just kind of the tone of the writer seems to be the same. seems to be the same. seems to be the same. But most notably, the Bitcoin address is But most notably, the Bitcoin address is But most notably, the Bitcoin address is still the same still the same still the same which is interesting when you consider which is interesting when you consider which is interesting when you consider what this note is telling us. what this note is telling us. what this note is telling us. So this note, again, not directed So this note, again, not directed So this note, again, not directed directly to Savannah directly to Savannah directly to Savannah is first directed uh to the Guthrie is first directed uh to the Guthrie is first directed uh to the Guthrie family. It says, "Guthrie family, family. It says, "Guthrie family, family. It says, "Guthrie family, we did not fully grasp the seriousness we did not fully grasp the seriousness we did not fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition. of her physical condition. of her physical condition. We never intended to hurt her. That was We never intended to hurt her. That was We never intended to hurt her. That was not our intention. not our intention. not our intention. She perished shortly after she was She perished shortly after she was She perished shortly after she was taken. taken. taken. We believe it was heart related. She's We believe it was heart related. She's We believe it was heart related. She's buried in nature now. Nothing you could buried in nature now. Nothing you could buried in nature now. Nothing you could have done could have changed the have done could have changed the have done could have changed the outcome.

outcome. outcome. We want your family to know this and We want your family to know this and We want your family to know this and hope you all can find peace. We are hope you all can find peace. We are hope you all can find peace. We are truly sorry." truly sorry." truly sorry." >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, here's what's remarkable about that. here's what's remarkable about that. here's what's remarkable about that. Is what is the point of sending that Is what is the point of sending that Is what is the point of sending that second note? second note? second note? This note, by the way, was sent This note, by the way, was sent This note, by the way, was sent before that second deadline on the first before that second deadline on the first before that second deadline on the first note. note. note. So, before we reached 5:00 p.m. on So, before we reached 5:00 p.m. on So, before we reached 5:00 p.m. on Monday the 9th is when they reached this Monday the 9th is when they reached this Monday the 9th is when they reached this re- received this note where they say re- received this note where they say re- received this note where they say that she had already perished. that she had already perished. that she had already perished. And they And that she is, {quote} And they And that she is, {quote} And they And that she is, {quote} "buried in nature now." "buried in nature now." "buried in nature now." Again, something about the language is Again, something about the language is Again, something about the language is so bizarre. Um, again, it gives more information than again, it gives more information than entirely necessary. entirely necessary. entirely necessary. It does seem to be written by somebody It does seem to be written by somebody It does seem to be written by somebody educated. It does refer to the writer as educated. It does refer to the writer as educated. It does refer to the writer as being in the plural, we.

being in the plural, we. being in the plural, we. Um, Um, Um, and it makes no sense. If you're trying and it makes no sense. If you're trying and it makes no sense. If you're trying to get money, to get money, to get money, why would you why would you why would you send a note saying send a note saying send a note saying that the person you kidnapped is already that the person you kidnapped is already that the person you kidnapped is already dead before the time to receive that dead before the time to receive that dead before the time to receive that second amount of money, unless you just second amount of money, unless you just second amount of money, unless you just feel bad? feel bad? feel bad? Many people, myself included, have never Many people, myself included, have never Many people, myself included, have never or or or quickly believed that these were not quickly believed that these were not quickly believed that these were not legitimate. legitimate. legitimate. In the first few days, there It seem to In the first few days, there It seem to In the first few days, there It seem to be some legitimacy from the way the be some legitimacy from the way the be some legitimacy from the way the people were responding to it. people were responding to it. people were responding to it. But then I think it quickly became But then I think it quickly became But then I think it quickly became apparent that there was not a legit apparent that there was not a legit apparent that there was not a legit legitimacy to it. One more point I'll legitimacy to it. One more point I'll legitimacy to it. One more point I'll make on on these notes and then we'll make on on these notes and then we'll make on on these notes and then we'll talk about what can we draw from the talk about what can we draw from the talk about what can we draw from the idea that idea that idea that investigators have now released these investigators have now released these investigators have now released these actual notes for the first time. actual notes for the first time. actual notes for the first time. Is that the FBI Is that the FBI Is that the FBI has never said has never said has never said whether or not they believe the notes to whether or not they believe the notes to whether or not they believe the notes to be legitimate. Now they've also never be legitimate. Now they've also never be legitimate. Now they've also never said that they feel that they're said that they feel that they're said that they feel that they're illegitimate.

illegitimate. illegitimate. But I think But I think But I think by never believing that they are by never believing that they are by never believing that they are legitimate, never going as far as to legitimate, never going as far as to legitimate, never going as far as to believe that they are legitimate, you believe that they are legitimate, you believe that they are legitimate, you can as safely assume that that means to can as safely assume that that means to can as safely assume that that means to them them them that there's nothing inside of these that there's nothing inside of these that there's nothing inside of these notes notes notes that that that contains information that only contains information that only contains information that only Nancy Guthrie's captors would know. Nancy Guthrie's captors would know. Nancy Guthrie's captors would know. If it did, If it did, If it did, if it had some sort of proof of life, it if it had some sort of proof of life, it if it had some sort of proof of life, it if it had included a photograph, if it if it had included a photograph, if it if it had included a photograph, if it had included some piece of information had included some piece of information had included some piece of information so specific so specific so specific to her or to her or to her or information that they received from information that they received from information that they received from Nancy that only Savannah would know, Nancy that only Savannah would know, Nancy that only Savannah would know, something along those lines, you would something along those lines, you would something along those lines, you would think that investigators would have said think that investigators would have said think that investigators would have said that they believe these notes to be that they believe these notes to be that they believe these notes to be legitimate, but they've never gone that legitimate, but they've never gone that legitimate, but they've never gone that far. far. far. Which leads to the other question of Which leads to the other question of Which leads to the other question of well, what about this piece of well, what about this piece of well, what about this piece of information about the smartwatch being information about the smartwatch being information about the smartwatch being on the floor of the foot of her bed? A on the floor of the foot of her bed? A on the floor of the foot of her bed? A white smart smartwatch was on the floor white smart smartwatch was on the floor white smart smartwatch was on the floor of the foot of her bed. That's some of the foot of her bed. That's some of the foot of her bed. That's some pretty specific information, no?

pretty specific information, no? pretty specific information, no? Or that the white floodlight in the Or that the white floodlight in the Or that the white floodlight in the backyard was destroyed. Well, many have backyard was destroyed. Well, many have backyard was destroyed. Well, many have pointed out that soon in the days after pointed out that soon in the days after pointed out that soon in the days after her abduction, there were drones up her abduction, there were drones up her abduction, there were drones up around that house and that you could around that house and that you could around that house and that you could easily have seen that the white easily have seen that the white easily have seen that the white floodlight in the backyard had been floodlight in the backyard had been floodlight in the backyard had been broken. broken. broken. But what about this smartwatch? Other But what about this smartwatch? Other But what about this smartwatch? Other online sleuths have also been keen to online sleuths have also been keen to online sleuths have also been keen to point out that she's been pictured with point out that she's been pictured with point out that she's been pictured with a white a white a white smartwatch before. But what about that smartwatch before. But what about that smartwatch before. But what about that very specific information that it was very specific information that it was very specific information that it was found on the floor of the foot of her found on the floor of the foot of her found on the floor of the foot of her bed? Well, I think what we can take away from Well, I think what we can take away from that is that that is that that is that either either either investigators felt investigators felt investigators felt that that information that that information that that information was not specific enough for them to was not specific enough for them to was not specific enough for them to believe that this was a legitimate note, believe that this was a legitimate note, believe that this was a legitimate note, or that information included was just or that information included was just or that information included was just wrong. wrong. wrong. Maybe that's not where her Maybe that's not where her Maybe that's not where her watch was found. watch was found. watch was found. It just seems to me if something that It just seems to me if something that It just seems to me if something that specific specific specific white white white smartwatch found on the floor on the smartwatch found on the floor on the smartwatch found on the floor on the foot of her bed, foot of her bed, foot of her bed, that would be a piece of information that would be a piece of information that would be a piece of information only known to her abductors or only known to her abductors or only known to her abductors or investigators who responded.

investigators who responded. investigators who responded. I don't believe that was ever reported I don't believe that was ever reported I don't believe that was ever reported anywhere. anywhere. anywhere. That that information That that information That that information you would think, if true, would lead you would think, if true, would lead you would think, if true, would lead them to believe that this person had them to believe that this person had them to believe that this person had specific knowledge and had been her specific knowledge and had been her specific knowledge and had been her actual abductors. actual abductors. actual abductors. Putting that aside for a moment though, Putting that aside for a moment though, Putting that aside for a moment though, what do we make of the idea that they what do we make of the idea that they what do we make of the idea that they are releasing these now for the first are releasing these now for the first are releasing these now for the first time, and that we heard Savannah give a time, and that we heard Savannah give a time, and that we heard Savannah give a statement statement statement for the first time in a long time, for the first time in a long time, for the first time in a long time, asking again for speaking directly to asking again for speaking directly to asking again for speaking directly to her mother's captor or captors, her mother's captor or captors, her mother's captor or captors, and asking for them to do the right and asking for them to do the right and asking for them to do the right thing. I think both of these thing. I think both of these thing. I think both of these show us a level of desperation in the show us a level of desperation in the show us a level of desperation in the investigation. investigation. investigation. I think the fact that investigators have I think the fact that investigators have I think the fact that investigators have felt, "You know what? felt, "You know what? felt, "You know what? What have we got to lose at this point? What have we got to lose at this point? What have we got to lose at this point? Release everything we have. Let's go Release everything we have. Let's go Release everything we have. Let's go ahead and release these notes. We've ahead and release these notes. We've ahead and release these notes. We've never shown these to the public. Much of never shown these to the public. Much of never shown these to the public. Much of the information inside of these notes the information inside of these notes the information inside of these notes we've known, but we've never seen these we've known, but we've never seen these we've known, but we've never seen these notes. This is a piece of notes. This is a piece of notes. This is a piece of uh uh uh evidence that they've always kept close, evidence that they've always kept close, evidence that they've always kept close, which they do in most investigations, which they do in most investigations, which they do in most investigations, but they've never actually released the but they've never actually released the but they've never actually released the notes. Now, you release the notes notes. Now, you release the notes notes. Now, you release the notes at the same time you've got Savannah at the same time you've got Savannah at the same time you've got Savannah Guthrie asking for people to do the Guthrie asking for people to do the Guthrie asking for people to do the right thing.

right thing. right thing. She has a follow-up statement where She has a follow-up statement where She has a follow-up statement where she's saying if anybody recognizes she's saying if anybody recognizes she's saying if anybody recognizes anything about those notes, somehow the anything about those notes, somehow the anything about those notes, somehow the way that they're written or the language way that they're written or the language way that they're written or the language that's used, that's used, that's used, to please come forward. That to me means to please come forward. That to me means to please come forward. That to me means that they've got nothing. that they've got nothing. that they've got nothing. The only thing that they're working on The only thing that they're working on The only thing that they're working on is someone out there is someone out there is someone out there doing the right thing. doing the right thing. doing the right thing. That's a very rough situation for a That's a very rough situation for a That's a very rough situation for a investigation to be in. investigation to be in. investigation to be in. So, while we hope for the best, and I So, while we hope for the best, and I So, while we hope for the best, and I still believe that this case will still believe that this case will still believe that this case will eventually be solved, it does not look eventually be solved, it does not look eventually be solved, it does not look to be in a very good place for right to be in a very good place for right to be in a very good place for right now. But, we will leave it there uh for now. But, we will leave it there uh for now. But, we will leave it there uh for the moment and move instead to Plymouth, the moment and move instead to Plymouth, the moment and move instead to Plymouth, Massachusetts, where the mother Massachusetts, where the mother Massachusetts, where the mother accused of murdering her three young accused of murdering her three young accused of murdering her three young children spoke in court for the first children spoke in court for the first children spoke in court for the first time as her ongoing trial continues. time as her ongoing trial continues. time as her ongoing trial continues. Lindsay Clancy verbally agreed to Lindsay Clancy verbally agreed to Lindsay Clancy verbally agreed to stipulate certain facts in the case, stipulate certain facts in the case, stipulate certain facts in the case, relieving the prosecution and jurors relieving the prosecution and jurors relieving the prosecution and jurors from multiple days of testimony from multiple days of testimony from multiple days of testimony concerning the chain of custody of concerning the chain of custody of concerning the chain of custody of certain forensic evidence.

certain forensic evidence. certain forensic evidence. The move could cut significant time from The move could cut significant time from The move could cut significant time from the trial, allowing Clancy's defense to the trial, allowing Clancy's defense to the trial, allowing Clancy's defense to mount their case earlier than expected. mount their case earlier than expected. mount their case earlier than expected. While Clancy has spoken little thus far While Clancy has spoken little thus far While Clancy has spoken little thus far in the trial, her words have been used in the trial, her words have been used in the trial, her words have been used by both prosecutors and her defense in by both prosecutors and her defense in by both prosecutors and her defense in the form of journal entries read to show the form of journal entries read to show the form of journal entries read to show the woman's mental state before the woman's mental state before the woman's mental state before allegedly strangling her kids, Callan, allegedly strangling her kids, Callan, allegedly strangling her kids, Callan, Cora, and Dawson. Clancy documented her Cora, and Dawson. Clancy documented her Cora, and Dawson. Clancy documented her worsening mental state, insomnia, and worsening mental state, insomnia, and worsening mental state, insomnia, and ideation of self-harm ideation of self-harm ideation of self-harm while seeking relief for her postpartum while seeking relief for her postpartum while seeking relief for her postpartum psychosis. psychosis. psychosis. Though the mother doesn't deny her role Though the mother doesn't deny her role Though the mother doesn't deny her role in the children's deaths, her defense is in the children's deaths, her defense is in the children's deaths, her defense is seeking to prove that the the wasn't seeking to prove that the the wasn't seeking to prove that the the wasn't criminally liable due to her mental criminally liable due to her mental criminally liable due to her mental state. The trial is ongoing and we will state. The trial is ongoing and we will state. The trial is ongoing and we will continue to keep you updated. continue to keep you updated. continue to keep you updated. Let's just talk about the progress of Let's just talk about the progress of Let's just talk about the progress of this case. This is a case that is this case. This is a case that is this case. This is a case that is more than any in recent memory, more than any in recent memory, more than any in recent memory, something that is really causing people something that is really causing people something that is really causing people to have very strong feelings about and I to have very strong feelings about and I to have very strong feelings about and I see that. I see that from your comments. see that. I see that from your comments. see that. I see that from your comments. I see that from discussions online.

I see that from discussions online. I see that from discussions online. People People People have strong feelings about this case and have strong feelings about this case and have strong feelings about this case and it makes sense. It's an incredibly it makes sense. It's an incredibly it makes sense. It's an incredibly emotionally charged case. On one hand, emotionally charged case. On one hand, emotionally charged case. On one hand, you have three children you have three children you have three children who lost their lives in a more who lost their lives in a more who lost their lives in a more nightmarish than I can imagine. And on nightmarish than I can imagine. And on nightmarish than I can imagine. And on the other side, the other side, the other side, you have you have you have a woman who now, I think, has provided a woman who now, I think, has provided a woman who now, I think, has provided sufficient evidence of the ongoing sufficient evidence of the ongoing sufficient evidence of the ongoing torture that she was torture that she was torture that she was suffering from in the days leading up to suffering from in the days leading up to suffering from in the days leading up to this tragic murder. this tragic murder. this tragic murder. murders. murders. murders. Um Um Um I don't think that's in dispute. I don't think that's in dispute. I don't think that's in dispute. And here's where part of the problem And here's where part of the problem And here's where part of the problem lies and I think where lies and I think where lies and I think where a lot of the a lot of the a lot of the very strong discussion is taking place very strong discussion is taking place very strong discussion is taking place online. Well, one, because it is so emotional. Well, one, because it is so emotional. It's It's It's It's It's It's There's no clear bad person here. There's no clear bad person here. There's no clear bad person here. You might be saying, "Well, clearly it's You might be saying, "Well, clearly it's You might be saying, "Well, clearly it's Lindsay Clancy." Yes, Lindsay Clancy is Lindsay Clancy." Yes, Lindsay Clancy is Lindsay Clancy." Yes, Lindsay Clancy is responsible for this, but is Lindsay responsible for this, but is Lindsay responsible for this, but is Lindsay Clancy a monster?

Clancy a monster? Clancy a monster? Even her own husband says, "I wasn't Even her own husband says, "I wasn't Even her own husband says, "I wasn't married to a monster. I was married to a married to a monster. I was married to a married to a monster. I was married to a woman who got very sick." woman who got very sick." woman who got very sick." And I think it is clear that she got And I think it is clear that she got And I think it is clear that she got very sick. very sick. very sick. But at the same time, what she did was But at the same time, what she did was But at the same time, what she did was monstrous. And then you have the prosecution And then you have the prosecution handling this in a way that really handling this in a way that really handling this in a way that really confuses me confuses me confuses me and bothers me. and bothers me. and bothers me. The prosecution has decided to instead The prosecution has decided to instead The prosecution has decided to instead of embracing the idea and conceding the of embracing the idea and conceding the of embracing the idea and conceding the idea that Lindsay Clancy was suffering idea that Lindsay Clancy was suffering idea that Lindsay Clancy was suffering from mental illness, they've decided to from mental illness, they've decided to from mental illness, they've decided to dispute everything. dispute everything. dispute everything. Their arguments, make no mistake, is Their arguments, make no mistake, is Their arguments, make no mistake, is that she's faking. that she's faking. that she's faking. That she never was sick. That she never was sick. That she never was sick. Or she never was that sick. Or she never was that sick. Or she never was that sick. That she never had postpartum psychosis. That she never had postpartum psychosis. That she never had postpartum psychosis. And that even her attempt to take her And that even her attempt to take her And that even her attempt to take her own life was not really legitimate. own life was not really legitimate. own life was not really legitimate. That's their claim. That's their claim. That's their claim. That is adding to their burden in this That is adding to their burden in this That is adding to their burden in this case. That's something they don't have case. That's something they don't have case. That's something they don't have to prove, but they're adding to their to prove, but they're adding to their to prove, but they're adding to their own burden by own burden by own burden by making that argument.

making that argument. making that argument. Think about that. If jurors don't buy Think about that. If jurors don't buy Think about that. If jurors don't buy that, let's say. that, let's say. that, let's say. Let's say jurors don't buy the argument Let's say jurors don't buy the argument Let's say jurors don't buy the argument that Lindsay Clancy faked her own death, that Lindsay Clancy faked her own death, that Lindsay Clancy faked her own death, her an attempt at her own life. Let's her an attempt at her own life. Let's her an attempt at her own life. Let's say jurors don't buy say jurors don't buy say jurors don't buy that Lindsay Clancy was faking her own that Lindsay Clancy was faking her own that Lindsay Clancy was faking her own mental illness and spiraling mental illness and spiraling mental illness and spiraling uh mental state leading up to the uh mental state leading up to the uh mental state leading up to the murders. murders. murders. Now, that doesn't change the elements, Now, that doesn't change the elements, Now, that doesn't change the elements, that doesn't change the burden that the that doesn't change the burden that the that doesn't change the burden that the prosecution has to prove on paper, prosecution has to prove on paper, prosecution has to prove on paper, but already it's going to discredit but already it's going to discredit but already it's going to discredit their view their view their view of the prosecution. Why do that? Why add of the prosecution. Why do that? Why add of the prosecution. Why do that? Why add that burden to yourself? Why not embrace that burden to yourself? Why not embrace that burden to yourself? Why not embrace it? Why not say, "Yes, it? Why not say, "Yes, it? Why not say, "Yes, Lindsay Clancy was a very sick person. Lindsay Clancy was a very sick person. Lindsay Clancy was a very sick person. Lindsay Clancy was misdiagnosed. Lindsay Lindsay Clancy was misdiagnosed. Lindsay Lindsay Clancy was misdiagnosed. Lindsay Clancy was overprescribed, Clancy was overprescribed, Clancy was overprescribed, underprescribed medications. And that may have caused her continuing And that may have caused her continuing spiraling mental state, spiraling mental state, spiraling mental state, but what it didn't do is cause her to but what it didn't do is cause her to but what it didn't do is cause her to not be able appreciate the wrongfulness not be able appreciate the wrongfulness not be able appreciate the wrongfulness of her actions. That's the argument they of her actions. That's the argument they of her actions. That's the argument they should be making."

should be making." should be making." And the defense is doing, I think, a And the defense is doing, I think, a And the defense is doing, I think, a very clever job. They've made Lindsay very clever job. They've made Lindsay very clever job. They've made Lindsay Clancy incredibly sympathetic. They've Clancy incredibly sympathetic. They've Clancy incredibly sympathetic. They've made her a victim in this case. They've made her a victim in this case. They've made her a victim in this case. They've put on trial the system, put on trial the system, put on trial the system, the medical care system, our mental the medical care system, our mental the medical care system, our mental health care system. health care system. health care system. They're the bad guys, according to the They're the bad guys, according to the They're the bad guys, according to the defense. defense. defense. Their misdiagnosis of her, their Their misdiagnosis of her, their Their misdiagnosis of her, their mistreatment of her, their missing the mistreatment of her, their missing the mistreatment of her, their missing the fact of how sick she actually was, fact of how sick she actually was, fact of how sick she actually was, giving her too many pills, giving her giving her too many pills, giving her giving her too many pills, giving her those pills so quickly, over-prescribing those pills so quickly, over-prescribing those pills so quickly, over-prescribing her with pills. her with pills. her with pills. The They're the monster. They're the The They're the monster. They're the The They're the monster. They're the ones that pushed her towards this ones that pushed her towards this ones that pushed her towards this inevitable end. inevitable end. inevitable end. They've also done something else that is They've also done something else that is They've also done something else that is very clever and it's very nuanced. very clever and it's very nuanced. very clever and it's very nuanced. Her attorney, Reddington, has made this case about whether or not has made this case about whether or not Lindsay Clancy Lindsay Clancy Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. They continue to debate on whether or They continue to debate on whether or not a person with psychosis could plan not a person with psychosis could plan not a person with psychosis could plan things. And he's received concessions things. And he's received concessions things. And he's received concessions from the prosecution's own witnesses from the prosecution's own witnesses from the prosecution's own witnesses that yes, in fact, a person suffering that yes, in fact, a person suffering that yes, in fact, a person suffering from psychosis can still make plans, from psychosis can still make plans, from psychosis can still make plans, can still act in a deliberate way, and can still act in a deliberate way, and can still act in a deliberate way, and still be suffering from psychosis.

still be suffering from psychosis. still be suffering from psychosis. He's constantly gone back to the idea He's constantly gone back to the idea He's constantly gone back to the idea that Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. that Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. that Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. Lindsay Clancy had psychosis. Here's the problem, though. Here's the problem, though. Here's the problem, though. That's not the question for the jury. That's not the question for the jury. That's not the question for the jury. The question in front of the jury is not The question in front of the jury is not The question in front of the jury is not did Lindsay Clancy have psychosis? did Lindsay Clancy have psychosis? did Lindsay Clancy have psychosis? The question was The question was The question was was Lindsay Clancy crimina- criminally was Lindsay Clancy crimina- criminally was Lindsay Clancy crimina- criminally insane? insane? insane? And those two concepts might seem to be And those two concepts might seem to be And those two concepts might seem to be exactly the same question, but they're exactly the same question, but they're exactly the same question, but they're entirely different questions. entirely different questions. entirely different questions. Because criminal insanity Because criminal insanity Because criminal insanity doesn't have to do doesn't have to do doesn't have to do while it has to do with mental illness, while it has to do with mental illness, while it has to do with mental illness, it is not the definition of mental it is not the definition of mental it is not the definition of mental illness. illness. illness. The question for the jury is, in spite The question for the jury is, in spite The question for the jury is, in spite of her psychosis of her psychosis of her psychosis or any other mental illness or defect or any other mental illness or defect or any other mental illness or defect that she may have been suffering from, that she may have been suffering from, that she may have been suffering from, could she still appreciate what she was could she still appreciate what she was could she still appreciate what she was doing was right or wrong? doing was right or wrong? doing was right or wrong? And the answer to that is that yes, And the answer to that is that yes, And the answer to that is that yes, people suffering from psychosis can people suffering from psychosis can people suffering from psychosis can appreciate the difference between right appreciate the difference between right appreciate the difference between right and wrong. They absolutely clan can.

and wrong. They absolutely clan can. and wrong. They absolutely clan can. And sometimes they cannot. And sometimes they cannot. And sometimes they cannot. So, was Lindsay Clancy one of those So, was Lindsay Clancy one of those So, was Lindsay Clancy one of those people who could appreciate the people who could appreciate the people who could appreciate the wrongfulness of her actions? That's the wrongfulness of her actions? That's the wrongfulness of her actions? That's the entire question. entire question. entire question. But the defense has been very clever to But the defense has been very clever to But the defense has been very clever to ever so subtly shift that question. I ever so subtly shift that question. I ever so subtly shift that question. I bet you if you ask the jurors right now, what is the question that they have to what is the question that they have to answer? They would tell you answer? They would tell you answer? They would tell you their question is, to some form or their question is, to some form or their question is, to some form or other, other, other, was Lindsay Clancy mentally ill or was was Lindsay Clancy mentally ill or was was Lindsay Clancy mentally ill or was was Lindsay Clancy suffering from was Lindsay Clancy suffering from was Lindsay Clancy suffering from psychosis? Not did Lindsay Clancy understand what Not did Lindsay Clancy understand what she was doing was right or wrong, and she was doing was right or wrong, and she was doing was right or wrong, and that's the mirror question. that's the mirror question. that's the mirror question. And those are not mutually exclusive And those are not mutually exclusive And those are not mutually exclusive concepts. She could concepts. She could concepts. She could and I believe she was, but she could and I believe she was, but she could and I believe she was, but she could have been suffering from severe mental have been suffering from severe mental have been suffering from severe mental illness. She could have been pushed illness. She could have been pushed illness. She could have been pushed further down further down further down the abyss of mental illness by her the abyss of mental illness by her the abyss of mental illness by her prescriptions and by the improper cares prescriptions and by the improper cares prescriptions and by the improper cares that she was receiving.

that she was receiving. that she was receiving. She could have been tortured. She could have been tortured. She could have been tortured. All of those things should could be All of those things should could be All of those things should could be true. She could have made an true. She could have made an true. She could have made an illegitimate attempt to take her own illegitimate attempt to take her own illegitimate attempt to take her own life. She could have been having life. She could have been having life. She could have been having auditory hallucinations. auditory hallucinations. auditory hallucinations. All those things can be true. All those things can be true. All those things can be true. And it can still be true that she And it can still be true that she And it can still be true that she understood what she was doing was wrong understood what she was doing was wrong understood what she was doing was wrong when she took the lives of her three when she took the lives of her three when she took the lives of her three children. children. children. That's the question. That's the question. That's the question. The prosecutors are going to have to The prosecutors are going to have to The prosecutors are going to have to make abundantly clear in the minds of make abundantly clear in the minds of make abundantly clear in the minds of these jurors, and it is not an easy win, these jurors, and it is not an easy win, these jurors, and it is not an easy win, and I do not and I do not and I do not envy these jurors. But, we're going to envy these jurors. But, we're going to envy these jurors. But, we're going to have to leave it there for now and move have to leave it there for now and move have to leave it there for now and move to our final case out of Manhattan, New to our final case out of Manhattan, New to our final case out of Manhattan, New York, where the alleged assassin of York, where the alleged assassin of York, where the alleged assassin of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson is seeking a live broadcast of his is seeking a live broadcast of his is seeking a live broadcast of his upcoming murder trial in an upcoming murder trial in an upcoming murder trial in an unprecedented move. While New York state unprecedented move. While New York state unprecedented move. While New York state laws generally prohibit recording or laws generally prohibit recording or laws generally prohibit recording or televising court proceedings, Luigi televising court proceedings, Luigi televising court proceedings, Luigi Mangione is pushing for easy public Mangione is pushing for easy public Mangione is pushing for easy public access in his case and asking the judge access in his case and asking the judge access in his case and asking the judge for an explanation if the case cannot be for an explanation if the case cannot be for an explanation if the case cannot be live-streamed.

live-streamed. live-streamed. Mangione's attorneys are also seeking a Mangione's attorneys are also seeking a Mangione's attorneys are also seeking a rundown of the journalists allowed in rundown of the journalists allowed in rundown of the journalists allowed in the courtroom, which will reportedly be the courtroom, which will reportedly be the courtroom, which will reportedly be limited to 68 seats. limited to 68 seats. limited to 68 seats. The defense has argued that the The defense has argued that the The defense has argued that the restriction of cameras and media access restriction of cameras and media access restriction of cameras and media access infringed upon his constitutional rights infringed upon his constitutional rights infringed upon his constitutional rights to a public trial despite state laws to a public trial despite state laws to a public trial despite state laws that are intended to protect defendants. that are intended to protect defendants. that are intended to protect defendants. We'll ultimately have to wait to see how We'll ultimately have to wait to see how We'll ultimately have to wait to see how a judge rules on the matter, but jury a judge rules on the matter, but jury a judge rules on the matter, but jury selection is scheduled to begin selection is scheduled to begin selection is scheduled to begin September 8th, and the trial and September 8th, and the trial and September 8th, and the trial and Mangione remains behind bars without Mangione remains behind bars without Mangione remains behind bars without bail ahead of his state and federal bail ahead of his state and federal bail ahead of his state and federal proceedings. What a bizarre twist in this one. What a bizarre twist in this one. We just discussed the Tyler Robinson We just discussed the Tyler Robinson We just discussed the Tyler Robinson case, the man accused of murdering case, the man accused of murdering case, the man accused of murdering Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. And his attorneys fought tooth and nail his attorneys fought tooth and nail to not have cameras inside the to not have cameras inside the to not have cameras inside the courtroom.

Nearly every single time we were back in Nearly every single time we were back in court, they were revisiting the issue, court, they were revisiting the issue, court, they were revisiting the issue, and if cameras were in the courtroom, and if cameras were in the courtroom, and if cameras were in the courtroom, where would they be positioned, what where would they be positioned, what where would they be positioned, what they could view, what could be they could view, what could be they could view, what could be broadcast, what could be broadcast broadcast, what could be broadcast broadcast, what could be broadcast inside the courtroom, what could be inside the courtroom, what could be inside the courtroom, what could be broadcast outside of the courtroom. broadcast outside of the courtroom. broadcast outside of the courtroom. Painstaking efforts to control the Painstaking efforts to control the Painstaking efforts to control the public perception of this case. public perception of this case. public perception of this case. Why? Why? Why? Because they said that he had a Because they said that he had a Because they said that he had a constitutional right to a fair trial. constitutional right to a fair trial. constitutional right to a fair trial. And here, And here, And here, and I know it's not the same attorneys, and I know it's not the same attorneys, and I know it's not the same attorneys, but using the same Constitution, but using the same Constitution, but using the same Constitution, wrapping themselves up in the same wrapping themselves up in the same wrapping themselves up in the same Constitution, the attorneys for Mangione Constitution, the attorneys for Mangione Constitution, the attorneys for Mangione are saying to deny him are saying to deny him are saying to deny him a a a fully live-streamed version of this fully live-streamed version of this fully live-streamed version of this trial would be denying him the trial would be denying him the trial would be denying him the constitutional right to a public trial. constitutional right to a public trial. constitutional right to a public trial. It's amazing how you can take It's amazing how you can take It's amazing how you can take the same coin and make entirely the same coin and make entirely the same coin and make entirely different arguments, I guess.

different arguments, I guess. different arguments, I guess. Does he have a point, though? Well, Does he have a point, though? Well, Does he have a point, though? Well, here's the thing. I am all for here's the thing. I am all for here's the thing. I am all for live trials. live trials. live trials. I do believe that part of what makes the I do believe that part of what makes the I do believe that part of what makes the American system of criminal justice American system of criminal justice American system of criminal justice remarkable and distinguishable from the remarkable and distinguishable from the remarkable and distinguishable from the rest of the world is how we do open up rest of the world is how we do open up rest of the world is how we do open up our courtroom doors. our courtroom doors. our courtroom doors. We do allow for public access to trials. We do allow for public access to trials. We do allow for public access to trials. And part of the modern age access access includes cameras. includes cameras. includes cameras. We're past the days of just simply We're past the days of just simply We're past the days of just simply allowing the courtroom to be open and allowing the courtroom to be open and allowing the courtroom to be open and allowing reporters inside and maybe a allowing reporters inside and maybe a allowing reporters inside and maybe a still camera or two. We're in this now still camera or two. We're in this now still camera or two. We're in this now four decades modern age where everything four decades modern age where everything four decades modern age where everything is televised, and I think the court is televised, and I think the court is televised, and I think the court systems really do need to catch up. systems really do need to catch up. systems really do need to catch up. I think it should be the rule rather I think it should be the rule rather I think it should be the rule rather than the exception to have cameras than the exception to have cameras than the exception to have cameras inside the courtroom. inside the courtroom. inside the courtroom. The exception should be protecting the The exception should be protecting the The exception should be protecting the privacy of victims. privacy of victims. privacy of victims. Protecting the the incredibly sensitive Protecting the the incredibly sensitive Protecting the the incredibly sensitive nature of some crimes. Sexual assault nature of some crimes. Sexual assault nature of some crimes. Sexual assault type crimes.

type crimes. type crimes. You can understand in those cases why You can understand in those cases why You can understand in those cases why you might not broadcast it. you might not broadcast it. you might not broadcast it. But in a case like this, a murder case, But in a case like this, a murder case, But in a case like this, a murder case, why not? why not? why not? Why not? Why not? Why not? Don't we want to Don't we want to Don't we want to institute institute institute trust trust trust in our judicial system? And what is the in our judicial system? And what is the in our judicial system? And what is the best way to do that but then to open up best way to do that but then to open up best way to do that but then to open up the doors and let everybody see how it's the doors and let everybody see how it's the doors and let everybody see how it's done? That was my argument against why That was my argument against why removing cameras from the courtroom in removing cameras from the courtroom in removing cameras from the courtroom in the Tyler Robinson case. the Tyler Robinson case. the Tyler Robinson case. Time and again I said, "Their quarrel, Time and again I said, "Their quarrel, Time and again I said, "Their quarrel, his defense attorney's problem his defense attorney's problem his defense attorney's problem is with fair media access. is with fair media access. is with fair media access. Their problem wasn't with cameras. Their Their problem wasn't with cameras. Their Their problem wasn't with cameras. Their problem with it was with the media spin. problem with it was with the media spin. problem with it was with the media spin. They felt that their client was getting They felt that their client was getting They felt that their client was getting an unfair shake in the media. an unfair shake in the media. an unfair shake in the media. Well, you can't shut down the media Well, you can't shut down the media Well, you can't shut down the media because of the Constitution. The media because of the Constitution. The media because of the Constitution. The media is going to report on it whether there's is going to report on it whether there's is going to report on it whether there's cameras inside or not, and wouldn't it cameras inside or not, and wouldn't it cameras inside or not, and wouldn't it be best to have a completely objective be best to have a completely objective be best to have a completely objective eye inside of the courtroom?

eye inside of the courtroom? eye inside of the courtroom? If you want to check a reporter's If you want to check a reporter's If you want to check a reporter's take on a case, the way that they're take on a case, the way that they're take on a case, the way that they're editorializing on what took place inside editorializing on what took place inside editorializing on what took place inside of the courtroom, wouldn't be best to of the courtroom, wouldn't be best to of the courtroom, wouldn't be best to actually have an unbiased recording recording of what actually took place inside of of what actually took place inside of of what actually took place inside of the courtroom? the courtroom? the courtroom? I'm all for it. So, am I for it here in I'm all for it. So, am I for it here in I'm all for it. So, am I for it here in Mangione's case? Sure, I am. Mangione's case? Sure, I am. Mangione's case? Sure, I am. Doesn't mean it doesn't give me pause as Doesn't mean it doesn't give me pause as Doesn't mean it doesn't give me pause as to why he's asking for it. to why he's asking for it. to why he's asking for it. I don't think this has anything to do I don't think this has anything to do I don't think this has anything to do with fairness with fairness with fairness and and and constitutional rights to constitutional rights to constitutional rights to public trials. I think this has to do with what this I think this has to do with what this case has been about for a long time, and case has been about for a long time, and case has been about for a long time, and that's creating a circus. that's creating a circus. that's creating a circus. I've been outside that courtroom I've been outside that courtroom I've been outside that courtroom when he showed up. I've seen the people when he showed up. I've seen the people when he showed up. I've seen the people who attend. People with signs, People with signs, wearing Luigi costumes, wearing Luigi costumes, wearing Luigi costumes, cheering him on. This is a man who, cheering him on. This is a man who, cheering him on. This is a man who, according to authorities, according to authorities, according to authorities, murdered someone murdered someone murdered someone in broad daylight on a New York in broad daylight on a New York in broad daylight on a New York sidewalk, shot him in the back like a sidewalk, shot him in the back like a sidewalk, shot him in the back like a coward, coward, coward, for no other reason than that man held a for no other reason than that man held a for no other reason than that man held a job he didn't like.

That man happened to be the CEO of a That man happened to be the CEO of a health insurance company. He's never said anything about Brian He's never said anything about Brian Thompson in particular that he did not Thompson in particular that he did not Thompson in particular that he did not like. like. like. Brian Thompson, Brian Thompson, Brian Thompson, we know very little about him, and we know very little about him, and we know very little about him, and that's sad. that's sad. that's sad. But I imagine he was a very accomplished But I imagine he was a very accomplished But I imagine he was a very accomplished guy. We know he was married. We know he guy. We know he was married. We know he guy. We know he was married. We know he has kids. has kids. has kids. Probably well-educated, probably worked Probably well-educated, probably worked Probably well-educated, probably worked very hard. very hard. very hard. Probably could have made Probably could have made Probably could have made anything of his life. anything of his life. anything of his life. Could have been the CEO of any kind of Could have been the CEO of any kind of Could have been the CEO of any kind of number of different companies and number of different companies and number of different companies and different industries. different industries. different industries. For whatever reason, he chose For whatever reason, he chose For whatever reason, he chose healthcare. He didn't invent healthcare. healthcare. He didn't invent healthcare. healthcare. He didn't invent healthcare. He didn't create the problems in He didn't create the problems in He didn't create the problems in healthcare. He was a figurehead in healthcare. He was a figurehead in healthcare. He was a figurehead in healthcare. healthcare. healthcare. He just happened to be the guy in that He just happened to be the guy in that He just happened to be the guy in that spot. spot. spot. And there's many different healthcare And there's many different healthcare And there's many different healthcare companies. companies. companies. Brian Luigi Mangione didn't care who Brian Luigi Mangione didn't care who Brian Luigi Mangione didn't care who this man was at all. He just saw him this man was at all. He just saw him this man was at all. He just saw him as a symbol, because he wanted to send a message, because he wanted to send a message, because he wanted to get a response, because he wanted to get a response, because he wanted to get a response, and he's getting that response, and it's and he's getting that response, and it's and he's getting that response, and it's creating that circus.

creating that circus. creating that circus. And it's disgusting to me. And it's disgusting to me. And it's disgusting to me. The people are cheering this on, the The people are cheering this on, the The people are cheering this on, the death of a man. death of a man. death of a man. And they're cheering this man on. So, And they're cheering this man on. So, And they're cheering this man on. So, he's saying he wants this very public he's saying he wants this very public he's saying he wants this very public trial. Why does he want a public trial? trial. Why does he want a public trial? trial. Why does he want a public trial? Because he feels that somehow the system Because he feels that somehow the system Because he feels that somehow the system is going to be so unfair to him and we is going to be so unfair to him and we is going to be so unfair to him and we need to shed light on it on this need to shed light on it on this need to shed light on it on this incredibly corrupt system in New York incredibly corrupt system in New York incredibly corrupt system in New York State. State. State. Or is it because he wants further Or is it because he wants further Or is it because he wants further spectacle? spectacle? spectacle? Further limelight. Further limelight. Further limelight. Further opportunity to proselytize his Further opportunity to proselytize his Further opportunity to proselytize his sick and twisted message. I think it's sick and twisted message. I think it's sick and twisted message. I think it's absolutely that. absolutely that. absolutely that. But I'll tell you what, I'm going to But I'll tell you what, I'm going to But I'll tell you what, I'm going to stand by what I said before. I think he stand by what I said before. I think he stand by what I said before. I think he should be granted that. should be granted that. should be granted that. I think he should be granted that. I think he should be granted that. I think he should be granted that. I think it's going to cause trouble I think it's going to cause trouble I think it's going to cause trouble and I think it's going to cause and I think it's going to cause and I think it's going to cause um um um more conspiracy theory and nonsense, but more conspiracy theory and nonsense, but more conspiracy theory and nonsense, but at the same time, we're all going to see at the same time, we're all going to see at the same time, we're all going to see that evidence.

that evidence. that evidence. We're all going to see how they put this We're all going to see how they put this We're all going to see how they put this case together. case together. case together. And from what I've seen, And from what I've seen, And from what I've seen, I think it's a devastating case against I think it's a devastating case against I think it's a devastating case against him. They have his journal. As long as him. They have his journal. As long as him. They have his journal. As long as they can piece this thing together, it's they can piece this thing together, it's they can piece this thing together, it's a rock solid case. And maybe that's the a rock solid case. And maybe that's the a rock solid case. And maybe that's the best for all of us, for us to have an best for all of us, for us to have an best for all of us, for us to have an absolute public airing of all of that. absolute public airing of all of that. absolute public airing of all of that. Think about the Think about the Think about the fallout if they shut this thing down and fallout if they shut this thing down and fallout if they shut this thing down and don't publicize it. Think about all the don't publicize it. Think about all the don't publicize it. Think about all the conspiracy theories we're going to be conspiracy theories we're going to be conspiracy theories we're going to be dealing with forever surrounding this dealing with forever surrounding this dealing with forever surrounding this one. one. one. I hope he gets his wish. Why not? I hope he gets his wish. Why not? I hope he gets his wish. Why not? We'll We will see. The judge has not We'll We will see. The judge has not We'll We will see. The judge has not ruled on that yet. We'll continue to ruled on that yet. We'll continue to ruled on that yet. We'll continue to follow it, but that is our show for this follow it, but that is our show for this follow it, but that is our show for this week. We'd like to give a very special week. We'd like to give a very special week. We'd like to give a very special thanks to our viewers and listeners for thanks to our viewers and listeners for thanks to our viewers and listeners for tuning in. We appreciate you so much. tuning in. We appreciate you so much. tuning in. We appreciate you so much. I'm your host Josh Ritter. You can find I'm your host Josh Ritter. You can find I'm your host Josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Joshua me on Instagram and Twitter at Joshua me on Instagram and Twitter at Joshua Ritter Esq. And if you want to hear my Ritter Esq. And if you want to hear my Ritter Esq. And if you want to hear my thoughts and coverage on even more true thoughts and coverage on even more true thoughts and coverage on even more true crime cases, you can also check out my crime cases, you can also check out my crime cases, you can also check out my YouTube channel Courtroom Confidential. YouTube channel Courtroom Confidential. YouTube channel Courtroom Confidential. And you can of course find all of our And you can of course find all of our And you can of course find all of our Sidebar episodes wherever you get your Sidebar episodes wherever you get your Sidebar episodes wherever you get your podcast, and we would like to hear from podcast, and we would like to hear from podcast, and we would like to hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you'd like us to address, please send us you'd like us to address, please send us you'd like us to address, please send us your questions or or tweet us your your questions or or tweet us your your questions or or tweet us your questions with the hashtag TCN Sidebar.

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