He sued his ex on ‘The People’s Court.’ Then she vanished.

A word of warning, this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language. It therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may find it [music] disturbing. Hello and welcome to True Crime News, the podcast covering high-profile and under the radar cases from across the country every week. I'm your host, Anna Garcia. In our case this week, she went on the People's Court to settle a dispute with her ex- fiance over their engagement ring. She threw it at him. It went over a hotel balcony, and so he was suing her to recoup the cost of the $5,000 ring. Their appearance on the People's Court revealed much animosity between the two, who were parents of three-year-old twins at the time. After the show aired, she disappeared after dropping the twins off at their father's place. That was 15 years ago. Well, he's just been arrested for her murder. But the question remains, where's her body? We are recording this on Friday, October 23rd of 2026. Our guest today, Rich McCale, a former detective from New Jersey, an author, and a dear friend of mine and the show. Welcome back, Rich. How are you? Very good, Anna. Nice to see you and uh glad to be a part of the show.

>> Rich, this is such an unusual case because rarely do we have literally what our video confessions of what the relationship was like from the perspectives of the two people involved in this. And that to me is what makes this case so fascinating. >> Yeah, I was just uh replaying the people's court show. You can see it on YouTube. And uh he literally when the judge asked him to lay out a timeline, he literally lays out the timeline to this case. >> Yeah, it was really something. So this arranged couple, they appear on the people's court to solve a dispute between them. Not necessarily where I would go, but you know what? [clears throat] Sometimes you need a referee in life. So, literally hours after the show aired, because it was pre-taped, this mother of three just disappears, is never seen again after she drops off the twins at her ex's house. And so, you know, he was the last person to see her alive, which of course is always very suspicious, but he was never charged.

This is 15 years ago. The case is out of Orlando, Florida. And I describe it this way. It was a cold case that went hot in an instant. So the question is, what has changed? And here's the thing, Rich. The police, they're really not telling us. They're being very, very vague. There's a 46page affidavit that >> Correct. >> Right. >> Arrest Arrest affidavit. Right. >> Arrest affidavit. um it has not been made public and it's really not clear what the new evidence is. >> There's a there's a lot of nuances to this case and and uh what you're talking about is one of them. It has been a 15-year cold case. Uh but one of the things the chief of police uh this revolves around Orlando and and the Orlando Police Department and the chief at that time 11 days into the search for her when when she originally went missing came out and said that uh Dale was their primary suspect. That would be >> and uh and I think what we have is they they looked at once they had whatever it is that they had on that 11th day um that they never they they just never had that missing piece of the puzzle to solve this case. And whatever it is is what you're getting at. And uh and you know with the the new cold case unit,

the fresh eyes unit they call it, they found something. And uh we'll get into it and I'll explain a little bit more, but uh you know that flipped that switch and may have revealed that missing piece that they were looking for way back in 2011. >> Yeah. So, the victim here is 33-year-old Michelle Parker, who was [clears throat] last seen alive dropping off her twins at their father's house. Her ex- fiance Dale Smith Jr. Dale, who is now 55 years old, has been arrested for her murder and he's been charged with secondderee murder. Her body's never been found, which always complicates a case. So then, you know, it's been 15 years. She is presumed dead. And now the Orlando police chief and his team of investigators say that about a year ago the cold case unit started looking and they did a few things like they won't tell us what the new evidence is but they say that there is new evidence and then they say they took the old digital forensic evidence that they had preserved and [snorts] that they used current technology as I would say kind of to rerun it and have it evaluated.

under more sophisticated technology and supposedly something in there is what police believe is strong evidence. Is it? I don't know. He denies it. And his attorney, who has been with him for years now, uh Dale's attorney says, "Look, the only thing that I see," cuz he has access to the 40page affidavit. He says, "What I see here are the same old text messages between two people who really don't like each other." Yeah, it's awful. It's hateful stuff, but he says there's no new evidence here. Obviously, he has to defend Dale, but I don't know what to make of it. >> There's two things uh with the with the advent of this technology. one is uh they don't want to tip their hand until they go to trial uh to give the defense time to counter with with some type of uh legitimate defense. And the other thing is they may have and they kind of indicated in these interviews after the arrest that the technology is so secret top secret that they can't publicly reveal that uh that it exposes uh the access that the government has to in our personal information. What the one thing that he the the detective did say when he was asked that question is that uh yeah they're reading the same data but what they can do with this new technology now is uh confirm a location

of let's say where a text was made. So, if he had her phone after he after he killed her and >> allegedly killed her. Alle >> I'm sorry. You're right. Allegedly uh did something to her. Later that night, he's texting her brother, responding to a hey, what's up? Where are you? text to the girl. And um the boyfriend answers Waterford, a prominent uh shopping center, as if hey, everything's okay. A one-word answer, you know, uh I'm at Waterford shopping. And I think what the detective kind of indicated is now they know exactly where that phone was when that text was sent. So, uh, this this newer advances in technology can read data further than what they could before to pinpoint and confirm or disprove information that's already been given. So, the defense wants this affidavit to be made public because they feel so strongly that there is really no incriminating evidence in there. And usually the defense doesn't want this kind of stuff out there because it's potentially damaging. But clearly, they don't think so, or at least they're saying that, but they're putting something behind it because they have filed a motion. One to get Dale released to get him on bond. So far, it has not been approved. There's going to be a hearing on that. And the additional thing is to make the affidavit public.

So, you know, I don't think they're just saying it. They're putting some muscle behind it with their motion. So, that's what I find interesting when the defense makes a move like that. But, we are, even though it's 15 years later, we're early on in this part of the investigation. >> They arrested Dale Smith and he was charged with seconddegree murder and uh the punishment for that is up to life in prison. Um there's extenduating circumstances where you if they find more in this case, the attorney was saying that this could be elevated to a death death penalty case, but we're not there yet. The maximum he can get his life in prison. And what you're referring to is the Arthur hearing. And what the defense is trying to do is tip the prosecution's hand as to what it is that they have. But but the prosecution in an Arthur hearing has to provide enough evidence uh to show that there should be no bond put on him on him that he's a flight risk. And uh the defense is saying, you know, you know, lay out your card and show us what you have. But really what he's trying to do is make them tip their hand so that he can see what it is that they have against his client.

>> And I think we'll find out soon enough. So, let's get into this relationship and let's talk about the people's court because I find it impossible to believe that this contentious episode airs and a few hours later she disappears. Like, I'm sorry. It's just hard to believe that that's coincidence and there's no connection. I'm not saying there's a connection to Dale, but I'm just saying certainly something was going on here. They appeared on an episode of the People's Court in 2011. Dale Smith was suing Michelle Parker for $5,000, the cost of this engagement ring. Now, Michelle did not want to have to pay to get an attorney. So, she agreed that they would both go on the people's court and then have the judge on TV decide what to do about this. Okay. So the the short version the short version here is that the two of them were in Georgia and they were at a hotel and they there was a fight at a bar that precipitates that and I want to get to that a little later but I just want to set up the short version. So, they have a fight.

Um, they're both drinking. It's, you know, early mornings, early morning hours. And she calls the police because she felt that he had put hands on her. She didn't feel safe. She called the police to help her and escort her to the hotel room to get her stuff. He is standing in the hallway of this Florida hotel. You've all stayed in one of these hotels. It's one of those wacky hotels where there's that internal atrium that looks like you're outside, but you're not really. You're inside and every floor has a balcony, right, that wraps around the lobby and goes up. That's why this is important. So, he's mad. He He wants his ring back. She's breaking up. He's breaking up. They both agree to break up. She takes the ring. Now, this is what they both said on the people's court. And there were cops there and and parts of this they don't contest. She takes her ring off. She throws it at him and whether it missed or bounced, it goes over the balcony down like something like I don't know 9 12 flights, the ring is gone. And so he's mad and he wants her to pay for the ring. And that's how they ended up on the people's court. That is the short version of it.

Okay. But what happened, Rich, is while they're on the people's court, they really reveal so much about how they feel about each other, what their relationship has been like, how contentious it has been, the fact that, you know, they're having trouble with visitation and and, you know, he's accusing her, she's accusing him. Clearly, the one thing I did get from watching the episode is that their relationship was toxic. And the judge even said, "I don't think you two should be together." I agree with the judge. That was probably good advice. >> It was amazing that uh Judge Marilyn, I can't think of her name, last name. >> Million. >> Yes. Very well-known people's court judge came out and said that you two are like a drug to each other. You're you're addicted to each other and you can't get enough. Bad things happen. You go away and then you come back together. Um, and uh, you know, it just it was a six-year relationship where it was on again, off again, where they they hit this crescendo and then things fall apart and then they work themselves back together again. Um, Dale, you know, I don't know how much you want to go into this as you go. Dale has an extensive uh, history. He's had a drug arrest. He was in the Marines briefly was dishonorably discharged for a domestic dispute and I believe uh drug distribution. So uh and then through

their relationship there's arguments and um some domestics involved with this Dragon Con um event in Atlanta with him. He's into cosplay wearing um Stormtrooper outfits, what whatever it is. And uh the judge even asked him, she was intrigued by the whole whole affair. And uh he said it's just it's a get together. They all have that common interest in sci-fi movies and the characters involved in them. You dress up in them and you go to uh the trade show, if you will. And uh and what uh Dale was saying, it basically is one big drinking party. And as you're referring to, they're at the Hard Rock Bar that night. And it was late, you know, three o'clock in the morning where both of them, Michelle and Dale, were highly intoxicated. And then this uh physical um dispute occurs where he actually assaults her and then they go back to the hotel room. She's going to get her things. And uh he's still aggressive in front of the police to her. And all of this is being revealed on the people's court. He's he's affirming it through his statements and and she is as well.

Very very toxic relationship and another one of those high points or I should say low points in their relationship >> and for the most most part they really didn't disagree. They may have disag he's admitting admitting the volume of it and the judge turns to Michelle and says yeah I was drinking too. >> Yeah. And you know, they may dispute maybe what caused it. And of course, he disputes putting hands on her and assaulting her, but for the most part, they were, you know, in unison as to what happened that night and what's been going on in their relationship. And it's a mess. if you want to know how the judge ruled. So, she basically said, "Look, I think the two of you decided to call off the relationship equally and at the same time, you saying you want to break up, him saying, "Give me the ring back." So, she said, "Here's my ruling. I think you're both half responsible for everything. So, you each will pay $2,500 the value, half of the ring." She was okay with that. You know how after the people's court, you come out and you talk about it? And Michelle was like, "Yeah, that's okay. I'll pay for it. You know, that's fine. I just want to get this over with. He comes out and he's like, I'm not happy. This isn't fair.

She should be paying for the whole thing. So, you can see, you know, sometimes you just need to get over stuff, right? You just need to put it behind you and move forward. This this whole ring thing had been going on for a while. So, it looked like, you know, the path of least resistance. You each are half responsible. If you've all been in therapy, you've heard this. You are each 50% responsible for the relationship. Not just one person, but both of you. So, >> I think I think the judge did the right thing to resolve that issue. >> Yeah. It's really something. And again, it's just so suspicious that hours later after this airs and people see it, she disappears. I just think that episode, you know, he is the one who is charged with her murder. He claims he's innocent, but if you have to think of an inciting incident, something about that episode was triggering, I think. Also, think about it. Neither one of you look very good on TV. And I'm not talking about physically. I'm saying you're not calm. You're not coming off either one of you. This is a mess. This relationship is terrible. You should have broken up a long time ago. you are not nice to each other, both of you. So, I have a feeling that it triggered something and he was unbelievably embarrassed by this whole thing that he

instead of his buddy saying, "Yeah, show her. You look great." I think he probably was like, "Oh my god, people don't think people are not agreeing with me." I don't know. That's just that's just my take on it. So, let's let's get into a little bit more about the relationship, the family, and kind of work our way backwards. So, Michelle was the mother of three. She had one child from a previous relationship and then this set of twins with Dale. Her family remembers her obviously as a loving and a caring mother. In addition to being a mother, Michelle had a spray tanning business. This is going to be important. So, it was called glow spray tanning and she used her vehicle, a very distinctive black Hummer and she would had those advertising stickers. You know, you've seen all those advertising stickers on vehicles for your business. So, that's really important, the stickers here, okay? Cuz they were big decals. Michelle and Dale met sometime in 2006.

They each had children from previous relationships. They would fight, break up, get back together, as Rich said, on again, off again. They had a set of twins together. Then they got engaged in 2010. This would be one year. >> Excuse me. >> Yeah. Yeah. 2010. >> Yeah. 200 2010. One year before her disappearance, Dale proposed in Coco, Florida with an engagement ring that cost, as you all know now, the whole world knows, it was a $5,000 ring. So, while they are on the people's court, here's the other stuff that came out about their relationship. So, [snorts] they also accused each other of cheating on each other. And each one would make a defense saying, "Well, I wasn't really cheating cuz it happened, you know, when we were broken up for 3 hours or whatever, whatever their excuses was." Michelle's mother says that Dale had been with at least seven different women while he was with, you know, Michelle. So, but then he accused Michelle of the same thing again. Toxic, toxic, toxic. So, Michelle told the judge that Dale was malicious and vindictive and that it became much worse when he drank. To which the judge said to Michelle, "Then why would you sit at a bar with him? Why would you sit at a bar with him and encourage? Again, the judge is like a therapist here.

Okay. Um, you know, then now we get to Atlanta. This is the inciting incident for the people's court, which I think is very important to the fact that Michelle went missing. Okay. They're at DragCon, as you've said. They get into the fight. We have described everything that happened in the hotel room. You know, the ring going over the balcony. It's never been found as far as we know, you know. So, um okay. Now, how things ended there at Dragon Con. So, apparently Dale drove back to Florida. Michelle, who told the judge she couldn't even keep the suitcases that she borrowed from Dale for the trip, [laughter] so the hotel had to give her these plastic bags so she could put her stuff in. And then she managed to get home and and rent a car and she got herself home. But here's the problem. They get back to Orlando and what do they do? They get back together after this insanity at the hotel in Dragon Con.

>> There was a uh there was a woman in the courtroom. I I couldn't help but notice as he's reading this and and Michelle's confirming it. She's shaking her head at him every time some dastardly deed or vindictive behavior of his comes out. Uh she's just you can see she's not saying a word, but it's red on her face like why were you even with this guy? >> Yeah. Now, now eventually this relationship does end. And by the time we get to the people's court, they truly are broken up. I mean they are seriously broken up. And they reveal in the people's court kind of how that finally happens, the finality of the relationship. Michelle said finally, you know what? I want to move out. And Dale took it so literally that he rents a U-Haul. He grabs all her stuff, puts it in the U-Haul, grabs the twins, and drives to her mother's house, and dumps everything there. Michelle's complaining that he did that without her consent, you know. And the judge is like, "But he took the stuff to your mother's." again, very, very complicated relationship. So, a year after the Dragon Con incident, tossing of the ring, Dale files this civil lawsuit against Michelle. I just want you to kind of have the timeline here all about that um engagement ring and then that's how they ended up on the people's court because they take a lot of the cases straight from the dockets and you know they say to people are you

willing to move this out of it's you know it's TV people and it's not like it's like not exactly binding but it is what it it makes for good TV right okay so forgive me for those of you who are watching and you're sick of looking at my mug. I'm getting over a cold and it's like I have a hair ball in my throat and I keep coughing and I'm driving poor Rich crazy. So, >> we're with you. We're with you, Anna. Hang in there. >> Will is very kind. He's going to cut out all the coughing and the hairball joking, [laughter] but my apologies. I'm doing my best here, people. Um, so they tape the show in this TV set that's designed like a courtroom. You've all seen the show. And that's in Stamford, Connecticut. So that's when they went before Judge Marilyn Millianne. And we've already told you how this resolved itself. Okay. Now, let's get to the day this finally airs on television, which is the day Michelle goes missing.

So, the episode aired on November 17th of 2011. That afternoon at 3:30, Michelle drops off the twins at Dale's house. And that is the last time she is seen alive. Last person to see her alive, Dale. Now, Rich, you were talking about this interesting text message. And here's some more context to perhaps what the digital forensics are showing here. So, no one's heard from Michelle and her family is worried, obviously. So the brother, Michelle's brother texts her asking, you know, where are you? And that's, as you said, Rich, she the text comes back from Michelle's phone saying Waterford, which is a neighborhood in Orlando, a one sent, it's not even a sentence, it's one word, >> right? >> And you know when you communicate with people, you've known them your whole life or you're related to them, you know exactly how they respond.

So, was it her? Was it not her? We don't know. I think police police are investigating. The question is, was that sent by her? Right. That that's the burning question. >> Keeping in mind uh the six years of the volatility of this relationship, I'm sure mom, the brother, they know there's a lot going on there. And uh the brother, for all we know, watched the taping of the show that day as well. and maybe even uh talk to her before the trip, whatever the case may be. He's I'm sure he's well aware that there's a lot going on between the two. And um she had to work as a bartender later that night, 7:00 I think it was. But I I'm thinking that mom expected Michelle to end up back at the house to get ready to go to work. At least see her one more one more time before she goes to work. So before she's even reports for her shift or supposed to, she's not showing up at the house. And that's when the brother reaches out, hey, is everything okay?

>> W TV in Orlando is reporting that her [clears throat] cell phone data allegedly suggests that her phone was not in Waterford, but actually near Dale's apartment when that text was sent. That's what their reporting is. NBC News reports that the day after Michelle disappeared, her car was found on the west side of Orlando. Remember the decals on her car? They were missing. They had been removed. So, her car is found abandoned. So, a little after this disappearance, police released video of what they say is Michelle's car picked up by street cameras, and it's timestamped after 8:00 p.m. The footage shows Michelle's Hummer SUV stopped at a red light at 8:55 p.m., less than 1 mile from where the vehicle will be discovered the next day.

Authorities made clear at the time, we don't know who was behind the wheel of the car, who was driving her car. Was it her? Was it somebody else? Was it the person that is responsible for her disappearance? And and this is where uh Orlando PD doesn't have like the Waterford, Texas location in 2011, but what they do have is they have security camera footage of Michelle looks like getting fast food takeout right right before the drop off at 3:18 or whatever it is. And then, as you said, later that night, there's a traffic camera showing that Black Hummer stopped at a traffic light without the glow etched in the back window. Yeah, very suspicious. >> So, whoever's in that car in the in the vehicle at that point is connected to her disappearance is what I'm what I'm going to add. >> One would think one would think cuz it's very suspicious. On November 18th, this is the next day, Michelle's car was discovered around Walden Circle near an abandoned apartment building, which of course would make someone ask why?

If this is her vehicle, then where the heck is Michelle? >> So then [clears throat] >> as a as a missing person's case, I can tell you without, you know, we we know, we we hear things, whatever, we're looking at the boyfriend, whatever. But when I find the the victim's vehicle at a spot, I now have to do a a uh uh search of that immediate area to make sure the victim is not attached to that ve vehicle in some way, you know, just you know, killed and left in the woods where whatever the case may be. So it kind of it distracts it distracts our investigation at that point. Now in 2011, 15 years ago, DNA technology was in no way near what we have now. So what I am thinking is I can't imagine they still have the Hummer 15 years later. I don't know.

It's possible. But if they gathered anything, any evidence from inside that vehicle and they have rerun it with new DNA technology that may establish some very credible evidence. >> Well, the thing about the vehicle um which you may I don't know if you get to it later or not, but he he does give a statement. He's interviewed several times before he completely shuts off from police investigations. But what they do have from him is a timeline where there's a 72 minute window uh where where he where she could have been abducted or whatever and where he's now accountable back at his parents house. So whatever he does, if he if he's the one involved here, he had to do something to the victim, to Michelle, meaning take her life, then he has to do something with her body. And she had just dropped off her to the twins. So he has to manage the care of the twins and take her life and then do something with her. Whe whether he hid it in the apartment, he has to do something. And all this has to occur within 72 minutes.

And like you're thinking like you're what I'm getting to is you're thinking there's going to be a lot of uh DNA or fiber left either at the apartment or in the vehicle itself. And to my knowledge to this point in the investigation, no one has said that there has been hair, fibers, or DNA connected to him or he would have been arrested a long time ago. >> Right. So we don't know. We don't know how that has changed and what was preserved in this case. Presumably, that's in those 46 pages that they are keeping from everyone. So, there's an all-out search for Michelle who's just appeared on television. So, all of a sudden, I mean, this this story is incredible. You have a woman who just appeared on the People's Court and she's missing and she was in this tangled relationship. So, the family starts putting up missing person's posters. Um, it's making huge headlines in the area. The police dive team manages to find Michelle's phone near a bridge um in a lake south of Orlando, which is unbelievable that they're able to find her cell phone. And I'm wondering, has the technology now changed that now they can mine that phone in a way that they couldn't back then?

>> I believe that is what they were getting at with the 2026 uh advances in technology that they had recovered the phone I think uh several days after the disappearance, but I think they recovered more or could identify or disprove information based on what they could get off the phone uh in 2026. You know, there was a reward offered at the time. The initial reward was $5,000. And Will, our producer, was like, "Geez, I mean, $5,000 seems to be this figure that is just recurring in this case, right? It's it's the go-to figure here." >> [snorts] >> Authorities said at the time that they viewed Dale as a key suspect through the investigation because he was the last person to see her alive and because of the nature of their contentious relationship, but that they lacked the necessary evidence to press any charges against the father. And of course, the father with the mother missing has sole custody of the children.

And since then, Dale has really not said anything publicly about Michelle's disappearance. At least he always saying he had nothing to do with it. Here's what's interesting. So Michelle's father and stepmother have complained for years that he prevented them from seeing their maternal grandparents. So Michelle's parents were not able to see the children. They were estranged this entire time. Not helpful, people. Not helpful. >> Yeah. No. Um and and Michelle's parents at some point were divorced. Uh her her her true her natural parents and then uh and then the father remarried and that's who you're referring to. in a separate story, her actual mother um in 2013 tried to get a Michelle's law in the state of Florida where um grandparents uh could petition the court for the right to visit uh their grandchildren.

And um her Michelle's law didn't get passed, but the governor two years later, they did pass a similar law that that you could do that. And uh Michelle's mom, her natural birth mom, was the one one of the first ones to apply for this. And the courts ruled that she did not have enough standing uh to be granted that visitation. So she tried legally to see her grandkids and and were not able to do that. On the flip side, her her father and stepmother were just saying that I just saw on a interview online where now that the kids are 18, she they're hoping that they want to come see their grandparents. >> Yeah. >> Which they haven't been able to do since they were born. >> No. And now that they're adults, they can make their own decision. But I I see this and I've seen it in many cases that I've covered. And I've seen the pain that it causes with family members. First, you lose someone primary to your life, like your son or your daughter. If it's a situation where uh a parent is accused or convicted of killing the other parent, there is another level. Now, the children have lost both parents in essence because one is in prison. And these arangements are so hard not just on the kids but on the extended family. And then there's another component to this where the children are raised, let's say, by the

parent who is suspected of harming the other parent or is ultimately charged with harming the other parent. And I've seen this where the children remain loyal to that parent, the one who's either been convicted or accused of killing their other parent. It is so complicated what these kids have got to process. I I don't even know where they begin. I just they need love and they need support and I hope as adults I hope that they get to make decisions that they believe are the best for them whatever they decide that is but it's heartbreaking. You know, uh, I want to take the liberty and and mention the, uh, Mark Heimball case, which we both worked on and, uh, very similar situation where the parents were estranged. And, uh, in our case, uh, the father was not accused, but he certainly was looked at as possibly being bool being having been involved in Mark Heimball's disappearance back in 1991.

uh that never resolved itself and Mark is still missing. But it's a similar situation where you have mom and dad and one of the children go missing and the mom and dad are not getting along anymore and uh it splits the family up and the kids, you know, have to go to one side or the other. It's it's a it's a it's a very big entanglement. >> It's awful. It really really is. So Michelle's father and stepmom file a lawsuit, a wrongful death lawsuit against Dale, hoping that through civil depositions and testimony, maybe they'll get some answers. They can't get a remedy in a criminal court, so they decide to do this with the civil court. He answered some questions according to WFTV back in 2016 when this happened, but for the most part pleaded the fifth cuz he didn't want to incriminate himself to many of the questions surrounding Michelle's disappearance.

So, they really didn't get a lot of information from it. And then ultimately that lawsuit gets dismissed in 2020. So, that avenue has now closed for Michelle's family trying to get answers. Then now what's interesting is that the attorney who represented Dale in the civil case is also currently representing him in the civil in the criminal case. Man is very busy. What's interesting is that the same attorney who represented Dale in the civil suit has also been by his side during these criminal charges. Rajan Johi is his attorney and he's the one who's asking asking the courts to release the affidavit that we've been talking about. So on October 14th of 2026, just a little while ago, the Orlando police announced that Dale had been arrested and according to authorities, he was apprehended at work. The police department had this big news conference.

They didn't really tell us a lot about what the evidence is, but there were a lot of investigators on that stage along with the state attorney who will be prosecuting this case. And she said it's very possible that they could bump this up to murder one. They just haven't made that decision yet. So, we'll see what this new technology does with the old forensics. So, Dale has been charged with one count of secondderee murder. So, as we said, he's being held without bond, and prosecutors claim that he is a flight risk because before his arrest, he bought a plane ticket to Colombia. But his defense attorney said to the judge trying to get him out said, "Wait a minute. He's been to Colombia multiple times. He goes there all the time because he has a girlfriend there and he had purchased a return ticket. But the prosecutors are saying m you know you can cancel that return flight at any time of course. Um but it is quite logical I think to say all right he does have a girlfriend there. He does travel there. Is he a flight risk? I guess you have a a you know a place to land in Colia.

>> There there is a there is a succession of events there. October 2nd, the twins turned 18 and one of them, one or both of them go to Orlando PD. >> One of them, the boy, the boy. >> What's going on with this case? Uh, you know, where have you found my mom? Is my dad? They want to know. They want answers. I guess, you know, they've grown up under the toutelage and belief of whatever the father Dale told them throughout their their childhoods. Now they want to know for real. is what he was say saying the truth or was he lying and he had something to do with killing our mother and that's the second and then uh and then he on the 13th books this airline ticket and on the 14th Orlando PD moves in and and arrests him at his place is a he owned the business but it was a place of employment. One other thing is um one of the things he was saying earlier is because of all the negative publicity about him throughout the years he couldn't get a date or girlfriend in the states and he was going to South America to find women to date and they he was making that trip I guess I guess for just sexual trist I mean it's a pretty expensive way you know uh but but he he was doing that and you know there there was there was no other reason given on why he made so many trips. Uh but that was his reasoning for do that for doing

that. And the police in the police mind your your son comes to us uh and they're not telling us yet because of the sealed indictment. Um, but maybe the son revealed something in his childhood that's incriminating and in along with Dale buying the plane ticket like, "Oh crap, you know, he he is involved. We got to grab him before he goes." >> Yeah. I I think that probably lit a fire that maybe they weren't ready to do this, but if they thought he was leaving town and now they're talking to the son who just turned 18. So, News6 Orlando and other outlets were reporting that this information that Rich has talked about how the 18-year-old son went to the police department. This was all revealed by Dale's attorney himself. That's what's so interesting. He's the source of this information. And he said that the male twin went to the police department. So this, you know, was more than a week before the arrest to ask police questions, but that he supposedly went there with another friend of his whose mom is also missing. How many women are missing? How many moms are missing? This is horrible. I mean, >> but I mean, that breaks my heart to to see these two young men who are like, I'll go with you. I'll go with you.

Okay. Do you know what I mean? That's so painful. You end up at the police department's doorstep asking what happened to your mom's. It's heartbreaking. heartbreaking. >> And and I don't know at what age, but at some point he he has more self-awareness and and knows his mother's not around. And I'm sure someone has told him that she's she's missing, not not necessarily harmed or killed, but she's basically never coming back. So through his teen years up until now, he's he's had to live with that. and the fact that she's still missing. And I'll tell you, if they ever do find out what happened, that it's not going to end well. That story doesn't end well. She's not going to all of a sudden show up as mom and they reunite. So, it it's like uh the double-edged sword. You want to know what happened, but at the same time, you really don't want to know the finality of it either. And the other thing that um Dale's attorney said, because he's the one who revealed this to the media in Orlando, was that the the teens innocent questioning of the police to say like, "What's the update?" he claims turned into then an interrogation of the young man where police were asking him questions about anything his father may have said or done or anything like that.

And that to me is very interesting. I mean, he did go on his own. I have no idea what the young man said to police. And I presume I don't Can you use anything that the young man said if he went there and he volunteered this information even though the defense claims it went from just an innocent visit into then police interrogating him? >> Yeah. I don't I don't uh you know he's a defense attorney and and the term he's using interrogate is wrong. It's a strong word to to to evoke emotions through the media. We wouldn't we wouldn't interrogate a witness in a ca in a case. We would certainly interview I would take every opportunity to interview the child of a suspected killer 1,000% uh after living under their roof his entire childhood. Uh, that's a golden opportunity as far as police investigation goes. And you want to do it with dignity and respect to the child who's now opening up, maybe not even knowing what or why they're opening up and how harmful it could be for them or or their parent. Um, but I it's not an interrogation. It's it's a it's an interview to possibly learn more about this case and open a window that police didn't have open before. And while the information itself may not stand on its face as evidence,

you but you you would have to back it up with further information to support that evidence. Um like saying he saying he um uh used a scraping tool to scrape that those marking. his dad used the scraping tool and that that tool's in his dad's shop. They'd have to get a search warrant, go to the shop and try and find that tool. So, they could use that information to possibly further the case. >> Yeah. And that's just an example. No one is saying that any scraping tool was found or it's just an example of how >> it's just an example. Exactly. >> Yeah. The genesis of getting some information from someone. So, police have said all along, they say, quote, "All evidence leads to Dale Smith Jr. as the person responsible for Michelle's murder." We will find out. We are early on in this case, even though we are going into a second decade here soon. We have breaking news here at True Crime News. I know this is the comment section. These are the crime stories you all are talking about, but our producer, Will Updike, he's leaving us. This is his last comment section ever.

>> I know. I can't believe it. >> I'm devastated. I'm devastated. Will, >> it's been almost five years. I think I've done like 500 podcasts here. Um, it's been I've grown up with you. [laughter] >> Oh my gosh. It's been such a transition. I've I've been here to watch you uh have your last winter in New Jersey to to being in Florida. You're in a completely new place. comments they left, all the engagement they've had like with the show throughout this time. I mean, it this has been a really magical place for me and uh I I have never been like this sad to ever leave a a job or anything before. So, you all will be missed so dearly. Um and uh hopefully, yeah, we all cross paths again. >> Definitely going to miss talking to you, Will. And uh I wish you luck in your future endeavors there. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. So, this one we got a case. It's one of my favorite things. Something animal related. Uh I'm calling this one the mighty wings of justice. This case comes out of Las Vegas, Nevada, where a man has been convicted after taking a flamingo to his hotel room uh from the titular Flamingo Hotel in what he called a silly prank. Uh so our now convicted here is 34year-old Canadian tourist Mitchell Fairborn, who claimed he was on a heavy bender when this occurred uh on March 3rd. He said he was drinking 30 to 40 beers, which >> Oh my god.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE still standing. >> What is that? A truck? Isn't that a truck full of beer? >> That's more than like a Isn't that more than a case? Like when you get a like a full flat of beers? I don't know. I I don't know. I also don't know what those Las Vegas prices uh how you're affording that, but whatever. Uh, at some point towards the end of this uh, alleged binge, Mitchell gets the bright idea to take a Chilean flamingo named Pinky from the habitat at the Flamingo Hotel. Now, as I said, Mitchell claimed this incident is all in good fun, but authorities claimed that he willfully, unlawfully, maliciously, and feloniously injured this bird in the process. So, >> I want to take a sec to like talk about this ladder claim, right? This situation wasn't like he was leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, you know, to like bait the bird along back to his room or shrimp. I I think flamingo really likes shrimp. I had heard in elementary school that uh flamingos are actually pink because of eating the shrimp. And I actually >> I actually checked that uh for this uh >> And is it true?

>> It is true. And I should have just asked our engineer Emma because she would have just known this off uh like off the bat. But yes, their diet does in fact contribute to the beautiful colors. Uh the carotenoids or the natural pigments from their diet of algae, brine shrimp, and small crustaceans along with other plants gives them that vibrant color. So pretty interesting. Anyways, uh our the convicted here wasn't using any of these delicious foods to try to get this bird back to his hotel room. Uh, this was a purely physical sort of encounter according to like there's obviously it's Vegas, there's cameras everywhere, >> right? There have to there has to be video of the guy grabbing the flamingo and running. >> Yes. And I'll show some screenshots from that video uh to our viewers on here. I'll just say this encounter went on for about 15 minutes for him to get this bird from this enclosure back to the hotel. Some of it, I'm telling you, is not looking very good at all. He's like holding the bird by the neck in one of these. >> Oh my god. uh according to authorities like the bird is like uh you know screaming uh or squawking during points of this uh and he has this whole phys very physical 15-minute ordeal to get this flamingo back to his hotel room.

It's in his hotel room for about 2 minutes and then I guess he gets bored of this whole thing and just shoves the flamingo out into the hallway where it was eventually sort of found. Um >> you just leave the flamingo in the hallway. What do you press the elevator button and tell him go down buddy? >> Why not? Why not leave it in the habitat? Why not leave it in the enclosure? Uh you don't need that thing back in your room. You're going to you're going to get bored of this in a couple of minutes. So he claims, you know, that of course he never meant to do any harm to this animal. His lawyer told the court the truth is Mitch was drunk. Mitch was stupid. He made bad decisions. Now that is not an excuse. >> Jurors agreed on the bad decisions part. Uh >> oh, this went to a jury. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh, for heaven's sakes. There's no jury that would have set this man free based on what you've told me. This is impossible. >> And after uh deliberations, they convicted him of felony and misdemeanor animal cruelty charges. >> Good. >> Now, interesting note on this since this conviction, there's kind of a petition going on here, sort of a grassroots thing that people want to see him face the maximum penalty, which would be about four years uh behind bars, and then they want him to be barred from re-entering the US. So, there's a lot of people who are very upset about this whole thing. Uh, and we'll talk a little bit more about that in a sec because we have another comment sort of about uh the justice system of of this whole thing. Now, as for Peachy, our our victim here to get back to that, the flamingo has made a full physical

recovery. However, uh they've said there have been some lasting sort of traumas or emotional effects and the bird is now way more anxious when it's like be has to interact with humans, which is something that it has to do on kind of a regular basis as they're feeding it, checking up on it, all this sort of stuff. >> Well, it's I mean, it's in the middle of a busy casino for God's sakes. It's so I don't believe they I don't know that they've returned it back to the Las Vegas hotel. I I I don't know if they've if they've put it back in that enclosure or if it's >> Pinky just needs to go back to Florida and retire, be warm, be left alone, and be in a flamingo sanctuary. That's Pinky needs to go. >> You got an extra bedroom, Rich? >> I do, actually. [laughter] Uh I don't think I do well with flamingos. Uh I saw pictures of of the screenshots online and uh it's like oil and water. ju they just look like they don't go or belong together. The guy is in the hallway with, you know, he's trying to wrangle this thing into his bedroom. And I think there's another screenshot of him in the in his shower area with this uh bird. And uh it just it it doesn't look right at all. And uh I I wonder how he'd feel if somebody did something to the Canadian geese. You know what I mean?

>> Oh, they'd be furious. A moose or an elk. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. and rightfully so. >> Bad bad situation all around. But uh we got some good comments on this one. I want to start uh Marina T here actually watched uh some of these proceedings or was you know observing it. They said watching him ball in court talking about his dad's funeral. It's amazing how abusers expect people to feel sorry for them. I hope he has nothing but bad karma for the rest of his life. Uh pretty serious there. I mean obviously you can imagine people trying to, you know, add some mitigating circumstances. I kind of think that's what they were trying to do with the 30 to 40 beers thing, which seems super human. Uh, but yeah, apparently the jury wasn't really buying that. This one kind of piggybacks a little bit off of our case today. Uh, sorry to the fellows out there, but Ano B said men are a menace to society, which uh from these two cases, not the not the best look for uh for the gender all around. Uh, Novalicious said, "I hope someone treats him like the way he treated the flamingo." Which, um, yeah, grabbing getting uh getting handled around for 15 minutes and then tossed out in a hallway does not seem does not seem very fun. Okay, so I want to get back to the the the criminal justice part of this whole thing. Debbie V said they need to get more harsh sentences for people that abused animals. Now, I alluded to the maximum here would be about four years.

>> How do you feel about that? is that and I do want to note too before uh before he's even been sentenced he was not allowed to leave the country through these like through this entire sort of uh ordeal he's been >> oh I was going to ask that like did he voluntarily come back cuz I you know he could have just gone to Canada and not come back >> he wasn't behind bars he was allowed you know obviously uh out ahead of trial but he was like kind of on a house monitoring type situation there uh so they knew that he would be you know he would be present in report because I think it'd be pretty difficult to try to get someone extraated over on a, you know, on an animal cruelty charge, which is unfortunate. But I'm curious what you all think about four years. Does that seem excessive? Does that seem correct? >> You'd want to compare to uh punishment for other crimes? And uh do we have somebody sitting in prison for four years for grabbing a flamingo by the neck and then we have somebody who who possibly does something more dangerous and destructive to the public and is uh given the lesser sentence or more, you know, vice versa. To me, I think uh it was a college prank that went really bad because of the intoxication level. And I think that uh and he and he potentially caused some extensive damage to the bird itself and that that there should be a heavy financial price to pay for that. I don't think his intent was criminal.

>> Interesting. >> It was reckless. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah. >> And he should pay for it. I mean, there should be some punishment, but for me, I'd rather him see pay an extensive amount out of his pocket that would really set him back and and uh make him pay the price for the crime. >> And maybe maybe you make him do some kind of community service where he has to clean out cages and animal shelters and things like that here. And if he doesn't return routinely to do that, he is threatened with jail time. And maybe not the all those full years. And I also want him wearing a horrible flamingo shirt or um and flamingo matching flamingo pants. And I Yes. I want to humiliate him and I want him to do something to help the animal community. Yeah. To >> do Right. And not that I don't Okay, I wish he would serve time, but like Rich said, it's very hard given our justice system to justify four years for that when you know, you could essentially maim someone in an assault and spend less than and spend less than four years. So I it's just it's a tough one. It's it's not a good um apples and apples comparison.

>> Yeah. I also like the idea of banning them from the country. I mean, >> that's good, too. That's >> that's not so much a criminal punishment, but that's like, hey, your your actions took this uh liberty away from you. Uh and it's something that uh I'm I'm not against that part of it at all. I I just I think it was a stupid, drunken uh reckless act. I don't think it was criminally intentional. >> Yeah. No, I I agree. It definitely has to be proportional. And um you know these cases always kind of hit me pretty hard. So it like you you know you hear the mob sort of chanting and I'm like yeah I I kind of agree with them. But you're right it does have to be proportional relative to other things. And luckily like the bird wasn't seriously harmed in in there but the potential for harm certainly was very high. Um so yeah I hope they figure that out. Um and I I don't see him back in Vegas probably anytime soon. So uh yeah here here's to a speedy recovery for Pinky. Um, that is going to do it for this week's comments section. Uh, I want to thank everybody who sent those in.

Uh, you can do that over on our YouTube community page. You can of course reach out to us at any time across all social media at My True Crime News. And, uh, yeah, comment on this video, comment on all our videos. Uh, though I will not be here. Anna does always read your comments. And, um, yeah, I I I look forward to uh, seeing everybody again real soon. Uh, so until next time, don't do crime. >> Gonna miss. Well, >> I'm gonna miss hearing his voice. He's so calming and reassuring when I'm trying to get my phone and show video. It's all twisted around and there's there's audio but no video and he very calm. Okay, Rich. He talks me off the ladder. Off the roof. >> He does. Yeah. Oh, yes. Off everything. I know. Well, we wish him the absolute best. I can't believe I can't believe that we've been together for 5 years. That he's been here for 5 years. Y'all are going to miss him. I know it. So, please in the comments section, show your love for Will and send him a nice goodbye from everyone. I'd really love to see that. That'd be really lovely. Comment on today's case, of course, but I'd love for all of you to wish Will well. www.

[laughter] Rich, where can people find you and follow you and remind everyone about your book? >> Amazon.com. Uh, >> oh, look at that. What a surprise. You had the book right there. Um, Mark's been missing 35 years this November. And, uh, you know, we're hoping, uh, such as in Michelle Parker's case, that some update in technology, uh, reveals something, uh, about some evidence we may already have or uncovered evidence that helps solve a case. 11-year-old boy goes missing. As you know, from 1991, sitting on the couch of Mark's mother, Morenheimball, this is something that uh is near and dear to both of our hearts and a a crime that needs to be uh a wrong that needs to be writed. >> Yeah, I covered it when he disappeared. I was a reporter there in South Jersey. So, I was there that day because it was right before Thanksgiving and >> tragic, >> awful, just awful. Um, it has always haunted me. This case has always haunted me and I know it haunted you. And what's so fascinating is you and I didn't know each other back then. We didn't cross paths. We were there, but we didn't cross paths. And we both feel very strongly that we would like justice for Mark and his family. And he deserves it like everyone else does. And it's been way too long.

And I don't know. I have been critical. I've been critical of investigators and the prosecutor's office in this case because I just don't know how hard they're working on this as a cold case. I wish >> I know that they are not shunning it because they don't like work. I know that they have a lot on their plate and uh I'm not making excuses for anyone because I I'm as passionate about this as you are. I just know that they're not just sitting at at their desk with their feet up and Mark's file is sitting over there off to the side. Uh they're tasked with a lot of things including following up on Mark's case. One last thing I'll say about it. Uh I mentioned to them I actually I saw it on a uh uh I think it was a dine show where I learned about cell phone tower batching. And uh although cell phones were not in everyone's hands in 1991, certain people and people named in our case did have uh pagers >> like someone sitting in prison right now on some other charges. That one >> and uh the cell phone batching where they could take uh cell phone towers closest to Mark's house and uh download all of the phone numbers that were in that area around the time of Mark's disappearance. And if one of the per our persons of interest is on that list, you know, somebody that we couldn't put in this area,

>> who denied being there and for years, for years, for years and and and because of all you wonderful people who've been following us for years, several of you came forward, reached out to me, reached out to Rich and to Lewis Bologanos who's helping, and we found people who could put that person Yeah. >> In the area. >> Yes. >> So, this I I I don't know. I can only give the information to the investigators. I don't know what ever happened to that. But that is an example where new technology I, you know, I never thought about that for the time that I was a detective working on the case that we could we could take batches of of the closest cell tower uh for people who did have phones back then and tell us who was in that area when in fact they should have been in another state according to their own statement. >> That guy's not getting out anytime soon, is he? >> 2035.

>> Shoot. Unless he he's eligible for parole now and uh you know he goes to the parole board however many years every year it comes up but um if he does not get early parole his max date is 2035. >> Oh my gosh. Well, we've done anyone who's interested in the Mark Heimbaugh case, we have done um a podcast or two on this already. >> Yeah. And uh Rich's book is about the case. And we keep trying. You all reach out with leads. We do our best to try and cooperate what we can. We don't bother with the police with anything that seems ridiculous. I think we give them some really credible tips, you know, but it it breaks my heart when when the people who reach out to us all these decades later and will say, "But I tried to tell the police that then I'm sorry, but this case was botched from the beginning because it was treated as a kid who ran away."

Yeah. >> Instead of a child who was abducted. It was what, like two weeks later when police finally ch >> It was It was a full week of searches later where they literally uncovered every stone that they that they thought of at at the time. Helicopter searches, K-9 searches, cadaavver searches, ground searches, and uh at that point they're like, "Oh crap, we have a we have a miss. We have a crime. We have an abduction here." And that that just gives the abductors a week's advance ahead of the investigators. >> Trampled evidence. It's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. It's awful. It's just awful. It's awful. I get so upset every time we bring this up, but not nearly as upset as his family >> and whatever happened to him. >> Little boy with red hair, tons of freckles, and blue eyes. Mark Heimbaugh, 11 years old. Okay, let's end this podcast. You know, we're not going to end our search for finding Mark, but you can find everything that we do here at True Crime News um with one simple handle at my true crime news. Could not be easier. You can find me at Anna G News. Anna with one N. I say that all the time. It makes people laugh, but it's true. And [laughter] you can find this episode wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. That's where we have our vibrant community of people with great theories about crimes, things that I miss, other information. You're all

wonderful and thank you for being part of our crime family. You can even receive our newsletter at true crimenews.com. [music] So until next week, this is True Crime News, the podcast. I'm your host, Anna Garcia. Crime never stops and neither do we.