Man allegedly poisoned pregnant girlfriend with cocaine; Millionaire acquitted in teen’s death

Hello and welcome to the Sidebar, Hello and welcome to the Sidebar, presented by True Crime News, taking you presented by True Crime News, taking you presented by True Crime News, taking you inside the courtrooms of high-profile inside the courtrooms of high-profile inside the courtrooms of high-profile and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the and notorious cases from across the country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. country. I'm your host, Joshua Ritter. I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in I'm a criminal defense lawyer based in Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County Los Angeles and previously an LA County prosecutor for a decade. We are prosecutor for a decade. We are prosecutor for a decade. We are recording this on Wednesday, June 24th, recording this on Wednesday, June 24th, recording this on Wednesday, June 24th, 2026. In this week's episode, a former 2026. In this week's episode, a former 2026. In this week's episode, a former NFL scout accused of fatally poisoning NFL scout accused of fatally poisoning NFL scout accused of fatally poisoning his pregnant girlfriend with cocaine. his pregnant girlfriend with cocaine. his pregnant girlfriend with cocaine. Plus, the potential removal of the death Plus, the potential removal of the death Plus, the potential removal of the death penalty from Tyler Robinson's trial. But penalty from Tyler Robinson's trial. But penalty from Tyler Robinson's trial. But first, a Florida man acquitted in a boat first, a Florida man acquitted in a boat first, a Florida man acquitted in a boat crash that killed one of his daughter's crash that killed one of his daughter's crash that killed one of his daughter's friends. Today we are joined by Vinnie friends. Today we are joined by Vinnie friends. Today we are joined by Vinnie Palitan, Emmy awardwinning journalist Palitan, Emmy awardwinning journalist Palitan, Emmy awardwinning journalist and Court TV's lead anchor who you can and Court TV's lead anchor who you can and Court TV's lead anchor who you can also find on his very own YouTube also find on his very own YouTube also find on his very own YouTube channel. Vinnie, hello. How are you channel. Vinnie, hello. How are you channel. Vinnie, hello. How are you doing, my friend? doing, my friend? doing, my friend? >> Great to see you, Josh. We're all back >> Great to see you, Josh. We're all back >> Great to see you, Josh. We're all back from Vegas. We're all in one piece. from Vegas. We're all in one piece. from Vegas. We're all in one piece. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. >> I was going to say, have you recovered >> I was going to say, have you recovered >> I was going to say, have you recovered yet from Crime Con? That was quite a yet from Crime Con? That was quite a yet from Crime Con? That was quite a weekend. weekend. weekend. >> It It was It was just a weekend. I >> It It was It was just a weekend. I >> It It was It was just a weekend. I thought it was like three weeks, but it thought it was like three weeks, but it thought it was like three weeks, but it was just a weekend. No, it was intense.

was just a weekend. No, it was intense. was just a weekend. No, it was intense. Uh great uh to meet everyone out there Uh great uh to meet everyone out there Uh great uh to meet everyone out there and incredible people from the true and incredible people from the true and incredible people from the true crime community. So it was it was a crime community. So it was it was a crime community. So it was it was a win-win. Although win-win. Although win-win. Although >> I didn't gamble at all. Not $1. Me >> I didn't gamble at all. Not $1. Me >> I didn't gamble at all. Not $1. Me neither. I was too exhausted. Honestly, neither. I was too exhausted. Honestly, neither. I was too exhausted. Honestly, everybody everybody wanted to go out everybody everybody wanted to go out everybody everybody wanted to go out afterwards and I'm like you all have afterwards and I'm like you all have afterwards and I'm like you all have fun. I'm going to bed. It was like my my fun. I'm going to bed. It was like my my fun. I'm going to bed. It was like my my saddest kind of Las Vegas experience. saddest kind of Las Vegas experience. saddest kind of Las Vegas experience. But the the convention itself was But the the convention itself was But the the convention itself was fantastic. And yeah, seeing everybody fantastic. And yeah, seeing everybody fantastic. And yeah, seeing everybody was re really thrilling. Yeah, was re really thrilling. Yeah, was re really thrilling. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's you absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's you absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's you know it's a place where we get together know it's a place where we get together know it's a place where we get together and you know there's you learn more and you know there's you learn more and you know there's you learn more stories you get to meet some of the stories you get to meet some of the stories you get to meet some of the people that you talk to like we talk to people that you talk to like we talk to people that you talk to like we talk to each other here miles and miles apart uh each other here miles and miles apart uh each other here miles and miles apart uh and then face to face with the folks who and then face to face with the folks who and then face to face with the folks who are who are supporting the true crime are who are supporting the true crime are who are supporting the true crime community and everyone is so invested community and everyone is so invested community and everyone is so invested and I think that's that's an important and I think that's that's an important and I think that's that's an important part and that's what makes these stories part and that's what makes these stories part and that's what makes these stories important. important. important. >> It's very true. Yeah. We get too used >> It's very true. Yeah. We get too used >> It's very true. Yeah. We get too used to, I think, kind of sitting in a studio to, I think, kind of sitting in a studio to, I think, kind of sitting in a studio or in a or in in a room staring at a or in a or in in a room staring at a or in a or in in a room staring at a camera and we don't realize the camera and we don't realize the camera and we don't realize the community of people out there. So, it's community of people out there. So, it's community of people out there. So, it's nice to kind of put some faces to names nice to kind of put some faces to names nice to kind of put some faces to names that I've become familiar with. Let's that I've become familiar with. Let's that I've become familiar with. Let's jump in though to these cases because jump in though to these cases because jump in though to these cases because these are some big ones. It was a busy these are some big ones. It was a busy these are some big ones. It was a busy week in true crime. Um, first out of week in true crime. Um, first out of week in true crime. Um, first out of Miami Dade County, Florida, the Miami Dade County, Florida, the Miami Dade County, Florida, the millionaire real estate broker at the millionaire real estate broker at the millionaire real estate broker at the center of a fatal bro boat boat crash center of a fatal bro boat boat crash center of a fatal bro boat boat crash can breathe easy after jurors acquitted can breathe easy after jurors acquitted can breathe easy after jurors acquitted the man on all counts. George Pino faced the man on all counts. George Pino faced the man on all counts. George Pino faced a faced charges of vessel homicide and a faced charges of vessel homicide and a faced charges of vessel homicide and manslaughter and the death of Lucy

manslaughter and the death of Lucy manslaughter and the death of Lucy Fernandez, who tragically drowned in the Fernandez, who tragically drowned in the Fernandez, who tragically drowned in the accident. Prosecutors claim Pino made accident. Prosecutors claim Pino made accident. Prosecutors claim Pino made quote mistake after mistake in piloting quote mistake after mistake in piloting quote mistake after mistake in piloting his boat that day, driving nearly 50 mph his boat that day, driving nearly 50 mph his boat that day, driving nearly 50 mph on the wrong side of a channel before on the wrong side of a channel before on the wrong side of a channel before striking a channel marker, capsizing the striking a channel marker, capsizing the striking a channel marker, capsizing the boat. They also argued that alcohol boat. They also argued that alcohol boat. They also argued that alcohol played a role in the crash. Though Pino played a role in the crash. Though Pino played a role in the crash. Though Pino never faced charges related to drinking, never faced charges related to drinking, never faced charges related to drinking, and authorities never performed sobriety and authorities never performed sobriety and authorities never performed sobriety or blood tests, Pino's defense asserted or blood tests, Pino's defense asserted or blood tests, Pino's defense asserted that the man made a mistake, but denied that the man made a mistake, but denied that the man made a mistake, but denied criminal culpability, claiming he never criminal culpability, claiming he never criminal culpability, claiming he never meant to put the passengers in harm's meant to put the passengers in harm's meant to put the passengers in harm's way. The jury ultimately agreed, way. The jury ultimately agreed, way. The jury ultimately agreed, reaching their not- guilty verdict in reaching their not- guilty verdict in reaching their not- guilty verdict in under two hours at the culmination of under two hours at the culmination of under two hours at the culmination of the 2week trial. Accepting the verdict, the 2week trial. Accepting the verdict, the 2week trial. Accepting the verdict, Miami Dade County DA Katherine Fernandez Miami Dade County DA Katherine Fernandez Miami Dade County DA Katherine Fernandez Rundle maintained the office's belief Rundle maintained the office's belief Rundle maintained the office's belief that Pino acted recklessly, adding, that Pino acted recklessly, adding, that Pino acted recklessly, adding, quote, "In a case like this, there are quote, "In a case like this, there are quote, "In a case like this, there are no winners or losers. Mr. Pino must live no winners or losers. Mr. Pino must live no winners or losers. Mr. Pino must live with what he did while the Fernandez and with what he did while the Fernandez and with what he did while the Fernandez and Puig families will grapple with the Puig families will grapple with the Puig families will grapple with the consequences of his actions." Go ahead consequences of his actions." Go ahead consequences of his actions." Go ahead and jump right in, Vinnie. Two hours or and jump right in, Vinnie. Two hours or and jump right in, Vinnie. Two hours or under two hours for a two week long under two hours for a two week long under two hours for a two week long verdict. That's pretty quick. Uh, do you verdict. That's pretty quick. Uh, do you verdict. That's pretty quick. Uh, do you uh were you surprised at all by this uh were you surprised at all by this uh were you surprised at all by this verdict?

verdict? verdict? >> Um, I thought it was very quick and and >> Um, I thought it was very quick and and >> Um, I thought it was very quick and and one of the reasons I was surprised how one of the reasons I was surprised how one of the reasons I was surprised how quickly it was is that there was there quickly it was is that there was there quickly it was is that there was there was no lesser included. George Pino was no lesser included. George Pino was no lesser included. George Pino fought against successfully from the fought against successfully from the fought against successfully from the judge instructing the jury that they judge instructing the jury that they judge instructing the jury that they could find him guilty of something less, could find him guilty of something less, could find him guilty of something less, a misdemeanor. And I thought that was a misdemeanor. And I thought that was a misdemeanor. And I thought that was very risky on his part. Uh, but it it very risky on his part. Uh, but it it very risky on his part. Uh, but it it paid off for him. So, it was all or paid off for him. So, it was all or paid off for him. So, it was all or nothing. He was either guilty of nothing. He was either guilty of nothing. He was either guilty of manslaughter and vessel homicide facing manslaughter and vessel homicide facing manslaughter and vessel homicide facing I guess 15 years in prison for each I guess 15 years in prison for each I guess 15 years in prison for each count versus not guilty and in less than count versus not guilty and in less than count versus not guilty and in less than two hours they all agreed. But it was a two hours they all agreed. But it was a two hours they all agreed. But it was a jury of six. So you've got to put that jury of six. So you've got to put that jury of six. So you've got to put that into it's easier for six people to agree into it's easier for six people to agree into it's easier for six people to agree to something than 12. Um but the bottom to something than 12. Um but the bottom to something than 12. Um but the bottom line it was fast no matter how you look line it was fast no matter how you look line it was fast no matter how you look at it. at it. at it. >> Yeah. And that's a good point too. six >> Yeah. And that's a good point too. six >> Yeah. And that's a good point too. six people, probably not going to be as much people, probably not going to be as much people, probably not going to be as much time for everyone to have their moment time for everyone to have their moment time for everyone to have their moment to to speak as you would with 12 folks. to to speak as you would with 12 folks. to to speak as you would with 12 folks. Um, in my view though, the the very Um, in my view though, the the very Um, in my view though, the the very clever thing that I thought the defense clever thing that I thought the defense clever thing that I thought the defense did in this case is even though he was did in this case is even though he was did in this case is even though he was never charged with drinking, that was never charged with drinking, that was never charged with drinking, that was kind of in the undercurrent in all of kind of in the undercurrent in all of kind of in the undercurrent in all of this because there were 60some bottles this because there were 60some bottles this because there were 60some bottles of alcohol found on that boat, but they of alcohol found on that boat, but they of alcohol found on that boat, but they didn't have any alcohol tests for him.

didn't have any alcohol tests for him. didn't have any alcohol tests for him. They didn't have a breathalyzer. They They didn't have a breathalyzer. They They didn't have a breathalyzer. They didn't perform any field sobriety tests. didn't perform any field sobriety tests. didn't perform any field sobriety tests. They had really no evidence forensically They had really no evidence forensically They had really no evidence forensically of him drinking. And so the defense kind of him drinking. And so the defense kind of him drinking. And so the defense kind of made that the question, you know, of made that the question, you know, of made that the question, you know, they can't prove he was drinking. they can't prove he was drinking. they can't prove he was drinking. Therefore, he must not have been Therefore, he must not have been Therefore, he must not have been reckless. And that seems like an ear to reckless. And that seems like an ear to reckless. And that seems like an ear to your question for the defense given all your question for the defense given all your question for the defense given all of the other things that he was doing in of the other things that he was doing in of the other things that he was doing in operating that boat that may not have operating that boat that may not have operating that boat that may not have been safe. What do you think of that? been safe. What do you think of that? been safe. What do you think of that? >> Yeah. But but from my perspective, I >> Yeah. But but from my perspective, I >> Yeah. But but from my perspective, I think I think the jury understands that think I think the jury understands that think I think the jury understands that like look, he did not intend to do any like look, he did not intend to do any like look, he did not intend to do any of this. His own wife, his own daughter of this. His own wife, his own daughter of this. His own wife, his own daughter was on that boat and all the the the was on that boat and all the the the was on that boat and all the the the girls that were there were family girls that were there were family girls that were there were family friends for years. So like he knew and friends for years. So like he knew and friends for years. So like he knew and cared for everyone that was on that cared for everyone that was on that cared for everyone that was on that boat. So you you couldn't get to the boat. So you you couldn't get to the boat. So you you couldn't get to the point where, hey, he intended any of point where, hey, he intended any of point where, hey, he intended any of this. So how would he not intend to do this. So how would he not intend to do this. So how would he not intend to do this? Well, you could intend to drink. this? Well, you could intend to drink. this? Well, you could intend to drink. And and from my perspective, if you're And and from my perspective, if you're And and from my perspective, if you're drinking and operating a boat and you drinking and operating a boat and you drinking and operating a boat and you are responsible for the safety of all are responsible for the safety of all are responsible for the safety of all those people, that's where it becomes those people, that's where it becomes those people, that's where it becomes criminal just in the minds of of of the criminal just in the minds of of of the criminal just in the minds of of of the of the public. Like we don't like drunk of the public. Like we don't like drunk of the public. Like we don't like drunk drivers. You're a drunk driver, you kill drivers. You're a drunk driver, you kill drivers. You're a drunk driver, you kill someone, we know that's a crime. But if someone, we know that's a crime. But if someone, we know that's a crime. But if you get into a car accident and you you get into a car accident and you you get into a car accident and you haven't been drinking, is it a crime?

haven't been drinking, is it a crime? haven't been drinking, is it a crime? Right? And and I think that's the space Right? And and I think that's the space Right? And and I think that's the space where we were. So to me, while the where we were. So to me, while the where we were. So to me, while the defense framed it that way, I think defense framed it that way, I think defense framed it that way, I think that's the proper framing even from the that's the proper framing even from the that's the proper framing even from the prosecution perspective because we don't prosecution perspective because we don't prosecution perspective because we don't want to lock people up for 30 years for want to lock people up for 30 years for want to lock people up for 30 years for an accident where they're being careless an accident where they're being careless an accident where they're being careless and negligent. Like our system doesn't and negligent. Like our system doesn't and negligent. Like our system doesn't work that way. Like it's got to be be work that way. Like it's got to be be work that way. Like it's got to be be way beyond that. And it's got to from my way beyond that. And it's got to from my way beyond that. And it's got to from my perspective, you have to do something to perspective, you have to do something to perspective, you have to do something to put yourself in that position. And to put yourself in that position. And to put yourself in that position. And to me, drinking is the way you would do it. me, drinking is the way you would do it. me, drinking is the way you would do it. Or if you're texting while driving, you Or if you're texting while driving, you Or if you're texting while driving, you know, you have to to me purposely do know, you have to to me purposely do know, you have to to me purposely do something that you know is wrong rather something that you know is wrong rather something that you know is wrong rather than be negligent, like maybe looking than be negligent, like maybe looking than be negligent, like maybe looking back at the girls instead of looking back at the girls instead of looking back at the girls instead of looking straight ahead. You're you know, he he straight ahead. You're you know, he he straight ahead. You're you know, he he claimed, and I don't know if it's true, claimed, and I don't know if it's true, claimed, and I don't know if it's true, his story vacasillated a little bit, but his story vacasillated a little bit, but his story vacasillated a little bit, but he claimed that there was a boat that he claimed that there was a boat that he claimed that there was a boat that came by and the boat was rocking a came by and the boat was rocking a came by and the boat was rocking a little bit and he wanted to make sure little bit and he wanted to make sure little bit and he wanted to make sure the girls were okay in the back of the the girls were okay in the back of the the girls were okay in the back of the boat where they were sitting. and then boat where they were sitting. and then boat where they were sitting. and then he turned around and it happened. I he turned around and it happened. I he turned around and it happened. I don't necessarily believe that story, don't necessarily believe that story, don't necessarily believe that story, but it was at least one of his stories but it was at least one of his stories but it was at least one of his stories in in all of this. And I feel you need in in all of this. And I feel you need in in all of this. And I feel you need something extra to lock someone up.

something extra to lock someone up. something extra to lock someone up. Civil liability, nobrainer. It's his Civil liability, nobrainer. It's his Civil liability, nobrainer. It's his fault. He's responsible. He's in charge fault. He's responsible. He's in charge fault. He's responsible. He's in charge of the boat. He's in charge of the of the boat. He's in charge of the of the boat. He's in charge of the safety of everyone on that boat. But to safety of everyone on that boat. But to safety of everyone on that boat. But to lock him up is is the next level. And lock him up is is the next level. And lock him up is is the next level. And they didn't have the evidence of the they didn't have the evidence of the they didn't have the evidence of the drinking. He may have been drinking, but drinking. He may have been drinking, but drinking. He may have been drinking, but they didn't have the evidence to prove they didn't have the evidence to prove they didn't have the evidence to prove it and prove it to the level that you it and prove it to the level that you it and prove it to the level that you need to. need to. need to. >> Yeah. And and it sounds like the jurors >> Yeah. And and it sounds like the jurors >> Yeah. And and it sounds like the jurors probably went through that exact same probably went through that exact same probably went through that exact same thought process that you just explained thought process that you just explained thought process that you just explained to us. Uh and they he was found civily to us. Uh and they he was found civily to us. Uh and they he was found civily liable. I mean, at least he settled. He liable. I mean, at least he settled. He liable. I mean, at least he settled. He settled outside of court or I should say settled outside of court or I should say settled outside of court or I should say this to be very specific, his wife this to be very specific, his wife this to be very specific, his wife settled to the tune of several millions settled to the tune of several millions settled to the tune of several millions of dollars outside of court. He also had of dollars outside of court. He also had of dollars outside of court. He also had a settlement, but that was undisclosed. a settlement, but that was undisclosed. a settlement, but that was undisclosed. So in any case, I agree with you that So in any case, I agree with you that So in any case, I agree with you that these are usually handled in the realm these are usually handled in the realm these are usually handled in the realm of the civil world and it was and there of the civil world and it was and there of the civil world and it was and there was a lot of money paid out on the was a lot of money paid out on the was a lot of money paid out on the criminal side of things. It just sounds criminal side of things. It just sounds criminal side of things. It just sounds like the jurors agreed with you that like the jurors agreed with you that like the jurors agreed with you that there just wasn't there enough there there just wasn't there enough there there just wasn't there enough there there uh when you didn't have the there uh when you didn't have the there uh when you didn't have the drinking even though there was other drinking even though there was other drinking even though there was other indications that he may not have been indications that he may not have been indications that he may not have been operating that boat all that safely.

operating that boat all that safely. operating that boat all that safely. They probably just came out with the They probably just came out with the They probably just came out with the idea that it was an unfortunate and idea that it was an unfortunate and idea that it was an unfortunate and horrific accident. We're going to have horrific accident. We're going to have horrific accident. We're going to have to leave it for there uh for now. And to leave it for there uh for now. And to leave it for there uh for now. And that's actually kind of the end of the that's actually kind of the end of the that's actually kind of the end of the story because there's no real other story because there's no real other story because there's no real other lingering lawsuits out there. Let's move lingering lawsuits out there. Let's move lingering lawsuits out there. Let's move now instead to Nashville, Tennessee, now instead to Nashville, Tennessee, now instead to Nashville, Tennessee, where a former scout for the Tennessee where a former scout for the Tennessee where a former scout for the Tennessee Titans is facing a future behind bars Titans is facing a future behind bars Titans is facing a future behind bars after allegedly poisoning his pregnant after allegedly poisoning his pregnant after allegedly poisoning his pregnant girlfriend with cocaine. Bla1 Taylor is girlfriend with cocaine. Bla1 Taylor is girlfriend with cocaine. Bla1 Taylor is accused of two counts of murder in the accused of two counts of murder in the accused of two counts of murder in the death of Jade Benning, who is 5 months death of Jade Benning, who is 5 months death of Jade Benning, who is 5 months pregnant with Taylor's child. Taylor pregnant with Taylor's child. Taylor pregnant with Taylor's child. Taylor called 911 to report that the expectant called 911 to report that the expectant called 911 to report that the expectant mother had suffered an allergic reaction mother had suffered an allergic reaction mother had suffered an allergic reaction and she was rushed to the hospital where and she was rushed to the hospital where and she was rushed to the hospital where her condition became critical. Benning's her condition became critical. Benning's her condition became critical. Benning's child died about 2 days after she was child died about 2 days after she was child died about 2 days after she was admitted to the hospital with the mother admitted to the hospital with the mother admitted to the hospital with the mother succumbing to her condition about a week succumbing to her condition about a week succumbing to her condition about a week later on what would have been her 25th later on what would have been her 25th later on what would have been her 25th birthday. A toxicology report confirmed birthday. A toxicology report confirmed birthday. A toxicology report confirmed that Benning had cocaine in her system that Benning had cocaine in her system that Benning had cocaine in her system when she died, and the medical examiner when she died, and the medical examiner when she died, and the medical examiner testified that the mother had drugs in testified that the mother had drugs in testified that the mother had drugs in her system far exceeding recreational her system far exceeding recreational her system far exceeding recreational doses. After Benning's death, Taylor doses. After Benning's death, Taylor doses. After Benning's death, Taylor left the state of Tennessee. However, he left the state of Tennessee. However, he left the state of Tennessee. However, he was eventually arrested in Utah after was eventually arrested in Utah after was eventually arrested in Utah after months of investigation.

months of investigation. months of investigation. Prosecutors are seeking a life sentence Prosecutors are seeking a life sentence Prosecutors are seeking a life sentence without the possibility of parole for without the possibility of parole for without the possibility of parole for Taylor, and we will continue to keep you Taylor, and we will continue to keep you Taylor, and we will continue to keep you updated on this case. Um, in opening updated on this case. Um, in opening updated on this case. Um, in opening statements, Vinnie, the prosecution uh statements, Vinnie, the prosecution uh statements, Vinnie, the prosecution uh played a phone call made by the victim played a phone call made by the victim played a phone call made by the victim and she had called a friend uh before and she had called a friend uh before and she had called a friend uh before she be had become unresponsive uh you she be had become unresponsive uh you she be had become unresponsive uh you know after um and rushed to the hospital know after um and rushed to the hospital know after um and rushed to the hospital and eventually dying. And she's heard to and eventually dying. And she's heard to and eventually dying. And she's heard to say, "What did you put in my drink? I say, "What did you put in my drink? I say, "What did you put in my drink? I knew you my drink tasted funny. You did knew you my drink tasted funny. You did knew you my drink tasted funny. You did this because you didn't want the baby." this because you didn't want the baby." this because you didn't want the baby." That's probably the most damaging That's probably the most damaging That's probably the most damaging evidence uh in this case. Walk us evidence uh in this case. Walk us evidence uh in this case. Walk us through kind of how this is being through kind of how this is being through kind of how this is being admitted though. Is this hearsay? Is admitted though. Is this hearsay? Is admitted though. Is this hearsay? Is this a dying declaration? And do you this a dying declaration? And do you this a dying declaration? And do you feel about uh it the same way I do that feel about uh it the same way I do that feel about uh it the same way I do that it's fairly strong evidence? it's fairly strong evidence? it's fairly strong evidence? >> No, it's it's compelling evidence. >> No, it's it's compelling evidence. >> No, it's it's compelling evidence. >> Yeah. It's the victim's own words and in >> Yeah. It's the victim's own words and in >> Yeah. It's the victim's own words and in the last few moments that she's able to the last few moments that she's able to the last few moments that she's able to communicate to the world and and to say communicate to the world and and to say communicate to the world and and to say that and for her to have the the that and for her to have the the that and for her to have the the realization and the understanding of of realization and the understanding of of realization and the understanding of of what's happened. Um it to me is what's happened. Um it to me is what's happened. Um it to me is devastating to this defendant and yeah devastating to this defendant and yeah devastating to this defendant and yeah it's it's hearsay but there's an it's it's hearsay but there's an it's it's hearsay but there's an exception like there some hearsay is exception like there some hearsay is exception like there some hearsay is permitted. This is a statement like a permitted. This is a statement like a permitted. This is a statement like a dying declaration an excited utterance.

dying declaration an excited utterance. dying declaration an excited utterance. It's something there there's a reason to It's something there there's a reason to It's something there there's a reason to believe it. It's not like she's taking believe it. It's not like she's taking believe it. It's not like she's taking time to like, oh, what should I say now time to like, oh, what should I say now time to like, oh, what should I say now to frame this guy and make it, you know, to frame this guy and make it, you know, to frame this guy and make it, you know, no, this I would I trust these words no, this I would I trust these words no, this I would I trust these words like this is at the time that it is like this is at the time that it is like this is at the time that it is actually happening. And and to me, I actually happening. And and to me, I actually happening. And and to me, I don't know how you get around it. If don't know how you get around it. If don't know how you get around it. If this didn't exist, this would be a much this didn't exist, this would be a much this didn't exist, this would be a much more difficult case for prosecutors. Um, more difficult case for prosecutors. Um, more difficult case for prosecutors. Um, every case is tough for prosecutors every case is tough for prosecutors every case is tough for prosecutors because of the burden of proof. Okay, I because of the burden of proof. Okay, I because of the burden of proof. Okay, I I'll start there. But with evidence like I'll start there. But with evidence like I'll start there. But with evidence like this, you are at least um getting much this, you are at least um getting much this, you are at least um getting much more of a head start uh towards more of a head start uh towards more of a head start uh towards fulfilling uh meeting that burden of fulfilling uh meeting that burden of fulfilling uh meeting that burden of proof. And when the jury hears this, proof. And when the jury hears this, proof. And when the jury hears this, this has the ring of truth to it, right? this has the ring of truth to it, right? this has the ring of truth to it, right? Something happens to you, you take a sip Something happens to you, you take a sip Something happens to you, you take a sip and you're like, and you're like, and you're like, >> that does wait, what are you doing? And >> that does wait, what are you doing? And >> that does wait, what are you doing? And and she knows the history in in in that and she knows the history in in in that and she knows the history in in in that statement. Think about everything that statement. Think about everything that statement. Think about everything that she's saying. She's talking about how she's saying. She's talking about how she's saying. She's talking about how and why. how and why. Two questions that and why. how and why. Two questions that and why. how and why. Two questions that sometimes are difficult for sometimes are difficult for sometimes are difficult for investigators and prosecutors to prove investigators and prosecutors to prove investigators and prosecutors to prove or try to put together, but she's or try to put together, but she's or try to put together, but she's telling you why he's doing it, and she's telling you why he's doing it, and she's telling you why he's doing it, and she's telling you how he's doing it. And I telling you how he's doing it. And I telling you how he's doing it. And I don't know how the defense gets around don't know how the defense gets around don't know how the defense gets around this other than try to uh uh, you know, this other than try to uh uh, you know, this other than try to uh uh, you know, absolutely destroy the character of the absolutely destroy the character of the absolutely destroy the character of the victim. Yeah. Yeah. You make an victim. Yeah. Yeah. You make an victim. Yeah. Yeah. You make an excellent point. It's not just that excellent point. It's not just that excellent point. It's not just that she's saying, "Did you put something in she's saying, "Did you put something in she's saying, "Did you put something in my drink? I knew my drink tasted funny, my drink? I knew my drink tasted funny, my drink? I knew my drink tasted funny, but then she goes far enough to say, I

but then she goes far enough to say, I but then she goes far enough to say, I know you didn't want this child. That is know you didn't want this child. That is know you didn't want this child. That is the probably the devastating part of the the probably the devastating part of the the probably the devastating part of the whole thing is that she then supplies whole thing is that she then supplies whole thing is that she then supplies the motive uh for this whole thing for the motive uh for this whole thing for the motive uh for this whole thing for jurors to hear from from the from the jurors to hear from from the from the jurors to hear from from the from the mouth of the victim themselves, mouth of the victim themselves, mouth of the victim themselves, literally crying out from the grave. literally crying out from the grave. literally crying out from the grave. Pretty powerful stuff. But to your Pretty powerful stuff. But to your Pretty powerful stuff. But to your point, um otherwise there's some point, um otherwise there's some point, um otherwise there's some difficulties in this case. For instance, difficulties in this case. For instance, difficulties in this case. For instance, the medical examiner though saying that the medical examiner though saying that the medical examiner though saying that her cause of death was the out was the her cause of death was the out was the her cause of death was the out was the um cocaine, pardon me. Uh as far as um cocaine, pardon me. Uh as far as um cocaine, pardon me. Uh as far as manner of death, having trouble manner of death, having trouble manner of death, having trouble declaring this actually a homicide. Um declaring this actually a homicide. Um declaring this actually a homicide. Um we've seen this before. Defense we've seen this before. Defense we've seen this before. Defense attorneys like to kind of exploit that attorneys like to kind of exploit that attorneys like to kind of exploit that situation. Um I think the part of the situation. Um I think the part of the situation. Um I think the part of the problem here has to do with the problem here has to do with the problem here has to do with the substance itself. We're not talking substance itself. We're not talking substance itself. We're not talking cyanide, right? If you had rat poison in cyanide, right? If you had rat poison in cyanide, right? If you had rat poison in your system, we could pretty clearly go your system, we could pretty clearly go your system, we could pretty clearly go this was a homicide. But I think because this was a homicide. But I think because this was a homicide. But I think because cocaine is recreationally used, it might cocaine is recreationally used, it might cocaine is recreationally used, it might give the medical examiner some pause. Do give the medical examiner some pause. Do give the medical examiner some pause. Do you think there's enough room there for you think there's enough room there for you think there's enough room there for his defense team to sew some reasonable his defense team to sew some reasonable his defense team to sew some reasonable doubt?

doubt? doubt? >> Well, that's where it's going to come >> Well, that's where it's going to come >> Well, that's where it's going to come from. Like it's the it's the logical from. Like it's the it's the logical from. Like it's the it's the logical argu ladies and gentlemen. The the the argu ladies and gentlemen. The the the argu ladies and gentlemen. The the the medical examiner doesn't even know, medical examiner doesn't even know, medical examiner doesn't even know, >> right? and they called the medical >> right? and they called the medical >> right? and they called the medical examiner and the medical examiner examiner and the medical examiner examiner and the medical examiner couldn't tell you if this was a homicide couldn't tell you if this was a homicide couldn't tell you if this was a homicide or if this was an accident. So like how or if this was an accident. So like how or if this was an accident. So like how how would anyone else know if the one how would anyone else know if the one how would anyone else know if the one person whose job it is to figure this person whose job it is to figure this person whose job it is to figure this out couldn't figure this out? So yeah, out couldn't figure this out? So yeah, out couldn't figure this out? So yeah, that could be a powerful argument. Uh that could be a powerful argument. Uh that could be a powerful argument. Uh prosecutors obviously need to be prosecutors obviously need to be prosecutors obviously need to be prepared and need to allow the jury to prepared and need to allow the jury to prepared and need to allow the jury to understand that the medical examiner understand that the medical examiner understand that the medical examiner doesn't make the determination of of doesn't make the determination of of doesn't make the determination of of guilty or not guilty. That's your job, guilty or not guilty. That's your job, guilty or not guilty. That's your job, ladies and gentlemen. You get to see and ladies and gentlemen. You get to see and ladies and gentlemen. You get to see and hear all of the evidence. And maybe what hear all of the evidence. And maybe what hear all of the evidence. And maybe what you have to do um with with the witness, you have to do um with with the witness, you have to do um with with the witness, with the medical examiner, is get into with the medical examiner, is get into with the medical examiner, is get into the the the facts of what did you the the the facts of what did you the the the facts of what did you consider, what did you not consider, consider, what did you not consider, consider, what did you not consider, right? Right? If you're just doing an right? Right? If you're just doing an right? Right? If you're just doing an autopsy, you're not going to be able to autopsy, you're not going to be able to autopsy, you're not going to be able to answer this question. Um, but if you answer this question. Um, but if you answer this question. Um, but if you consider more of the evidence consider more of the evidence consider more of the evidence surrounding it, then maybe you can come surrounding it, then maybe you can come surrounding it, then maybe you can come to some conclusion. But that's what the to some conclusion. But that's what the to some conclusion. But that's what the jury needs. The jury needs the words of jury needs. The jury needs the words of jury needs. The jury needs the words of the victim. The jury needs some of the the victim. The jury needs some of the the victim. The jury needs some of the other circumstances surrounding all of other circumstances surrounding all of other circumstances surrounding all of this. So, um I I think this is a this. So, um I I think this is a this. So, um I I think this is a winnable case for prosecutors, but there winnable case for prosecutors, but there winnable case for prosecutors, but there is an argument for the defense to make.

is an argument for the defense to make. is an argument for the defense to make. And this is where lawyers lawyers, not And this is where lawyers lawyers, not And this is where lawyers lawyers, not the facts, not the evidence, uh not the facts, not the evidence, uh not the facts, not the evidence, uh not necessarily the law, but the lawyers necessarily the law, but the lawyers necessarily the law, but the lawyers themselves can make a difference. themselves can make a difference. themselves can make a difference. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're right. This is one of >> Yeah. Yeah. You're right. This is one of >> Yeah. Yeah. You're right. This is one of those rare circumstances. Usually, I say those rare circumstances. Usually, I say those rare circumstances. Usually, I say lawyers, I don't care how good they are, lawyers, I don't care how good they are, lawyers, I don't care how good they are, they can't change the facts. But here they can't change the facts. But here they can't change the facts. But here there's enough kind of, like I said, there's enough kind of, like I said, there's enough kind of, like I said, wiggle room that maybe a good attorney wiggle room that maybe a good attorney wiggle room that maybe a good attorney can get in there. can get in there. can get in there. >> Let me ask you, which argument would you >> Let me ask you, which argument would you >> Let me ask you, which argument would you rather be making in this case? rather be making in this case? rather be making in this case? >> You're talking about defense. I I would >> You're talking about defense. I I would >> You're talking about defense. I I would prose. Yeah, I' I'd say for prosecution. prose. Yeah, I' I'd say for prosecution. prose. Yeah, I' I'd say for prosecution. Prosecution. Prosecution. Prosecution. >> You know, an interesting thing that we >> You know, an interesting thing that we >> You know, an interesting thing that we don't know, maybe we do know, but I I don't know, maybe we do know, but I I don't know, maybe we do know, but I I don't know in the research that I've don't know in the research that I've don't know in the research that I've done is done is done is >> her lifestyle. Like that would be >> her lifestyle. Like that would be >> her lifestyle. Like that would be interesting to know, right? Was she a interesting to know, right? Was she a interesting to know, right? Was she a recreational drug user before becoming recreational drug user before becoming recreational drug user before becoming pregnant? I mean, as awful as it sounds, pregnant? I mean, as awful as it sounds, pregnant? I mean, as awful as it sounds, many I know that many women listening many I know that many women listening many I know that many women listening who have children or are pregnant who have children or are pregnant who have children or are pregnant themselves would say, "I would never I themselves would say, "I would never I themselves would say, "I would never I would never take anything that would would never take anything that would would never take anything that would threaten the life of my child." Well, threaten the life of my child." Well, threaten the life of my child." Well, unfortunately, we live in a world where unfortunately, we live in a world where unfortunately, we live in a world where a lot of people do and a lot of people a lot of people do and a lot of people a lot of people do and a lot of people kind of have their their party lifestyle kind of have their their party lifestyle kind of have their their party lifestyle and they don't want that changing and they don't want that changing and they don't want that changing necessarily cuz they got pregnant. That necessarily cuz they got pregnant. That necessarily cuz they got pregnant. That would be interesting to me. like if she would be interesting to me. like if she would be interesting to me. like if she had never touched cocaine in her life had never touched cocaine in her life had never touched cocaine in her life and then all of a sudden she's found and then all of a sudden she's found and then all of a sudden she's found with a bunch of it in her system while with a bunch of it in her system while with a bunch of it in her system while pregnant. Pretty clear case to me.

pregnant. Pretty clear case to me. pregnant. Pretty clear case to me. >> Yes. Now, my understanding is there is >> Yes. Now, my understanding is there is >> Yes. Now, my understanding is there is some history. I don't know if it's some history. I don't know if it's some history. I don't know if it's relative to cocaine. Uh but important relative to cocaine. Uh but important relative to cocaine. Uh but important testimony will be from her OBGYn who testimony will be from her OBGYn who testimony will be from her OBGYn who who's testifying about there were no red who's testifying about there were no red who's testifying about there were no red flags. Uh she seemed to be uh doing flags. Uh she seemed to be uh doing flags. Uh she seemed to be uh doing everything that she wanted to do. She everything that she wanted to do. She everything that she wanted to do. She was very excited about the pregnancy. was very excited about the pregnancy. was very excited about the pregnancy. She was being very careful. And you She was being very careful. And you She was being very careful. And you know, the jury's the juryy's going to know, the jury's the juryy's going to know, the jury's the juryy's going to have evidence like that. So, it'll be up have evidence like that. So, it'll be up have evidence like that. So, it'll be up to the defense to try to, like I said, to the defense to try to, like I said, to the defense to try to, like I said, they've got to attack her, attack her they've got to attack her, attack her they've got to attack her, attack her character, and try to make this jury see character, and try to make this jury see character, and try to make this jury see her in a different light. Don't see her her in a different light. Don't see her her in a different light. Don't see her as a young woman pregnant uh with a as a young woman pregnant uh with a as a young woman pregnant uh with a child looking forward to becoming a child looking forward to becoming a child looking forward to becoming a mother. They have to paint a completely mother. They have to paint a completely mother. They have to paint a completely different picture. different picture. different picture. >> Yeah. Horrible case, though. Horrific. >> Yeah. Horrible case, though. Horrific. >> Yeah. Horrible case, though. Horrific. If if if true, if he's convicted, talk If if if true, if he's convicted, talk If if if true, if he's convicted, talk about a horrific thing. about a horrific thing. about a horrific thing. >> Yeah. This is This is Cory Richens and >> Yeah. This is This is Cory Richens and >> Yeah. This is This is Cory Richens and Scott Peterson put together. That's who Scott Peterson put together. That's who Scott Peterson put together. That's who this is. this is. this is. >> Very true. Very good. Very good. Uh call >> Very true. Very good. Very good. Uh call >> Very true. Very good. Very good. Uh call backs there. Yeah. Well, we'll continue backs there. Yeah. Well, we'll continue backs there. Yeah. Well, we'll continue to watch it. As I said, the case is to watch it. As I said, the case is to watch it. As I said, the case is ongoing. And we'll keep you all updated.

ongoing. And we'll keep you all updated. ongoing. And we'll keep you all updated. In the meantime, we'll leave it there In the meantime, we'll leave it there In the meantime, we'll leave it there and move to our final case out of Provo, and move to our final case out of Provo, and move to our final case out of Provo, Utah, where a judge is considering Utah, where a judge is considering Utah, where a judge is considering removing the death penalty from Tyler removing the death penalty from Tyler removing the death penalty from Tyler Robinson's upcoming trial after comments Robinson's upcoming trial after comments Robinson's upcoming trial after comments made by prosecutors despite a gag order. made by prosecutors despite a gag order. made by prosecutors despite a gag order. Robinson, who's accused of assassinating Robinson, who's accused of assassinating Robinson, who's accused of assassinating uh the assassination of right-wing uh the assassination of right-wing uh the assassination of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, had been facing activist Charlie Kirk, had been facing activist Charlie Kirk, had been facing the state's ultimate penalty since his the state's ultimate penalty since his the state's ultimate penalty since his indictment. However, his defense claims indictment. However, his defense claims indictment. However, his defense claims that prosecutors spoke about ballistic that prosecutors spoke about ballistic that prosecutors spoke about ballistic evidence in clear violation of a evidence in clear violation of a evidence in clear violation of a pre-trial publicity order imposed by the pre-trial publicity order imposed by the pre-trial publicity order imposed by the judge. In an unprecedented move, they judge. In an unprecedented move, they judge. In an unprecedented move, they filed a motion to hold the attorneys in filed a motion to hold the attorneys in filed a motion to hold the attorneys in contempt and argued that the removal of contempt and argued that the removal of contempt and argued that the removal of the death penalty is the only the death penalty is the only the death penalty is the only appropriate remedy. Judge Tony Graph is appropriate remedy. Judge Tony Graph is appropriate remedy. Judge Tony Graph is considering the prospect ahead of considering the prospect ahead of considering the prospect ahead of Robinson's preliminary hearing, which Robinson's preliminary hearing, which Robinson's preliminary hearing, which won't feature testimony from Robinson's won't feature testimony from Robinson's won't feature testimony from Robinson's roommate and romantic partner, Lance roommate and romantic partner, Lance roommate and romantic partner, Lance Twigs. Graph ruled against the defense Twigs. Graph ruled against the defense Twigs. Graph ruled against the defense subpoena requesting Twigs, deeming the subpoena requesting Twigs, deeming the subpoena requesting Twigs, deeming the appearance from Robinson's former appearance from Robinson's former appearance from Robinson's former partner was not necessary at this stage, partner was not necessary at this stage, partner was not necessary at this stage, despite hearsay concerns, which do not despite hearsay concerns, which do not despite hearsay concerns, which do not apply to preliminary hearings in Utah.

apply to preliminary hearings in Utah. apply to preliminary hearings in Utah. Robinson's preliminary hearing is still Robinson's preliminary hearing is still Robinson's preliminary hearing is still set to begin on July 6th and is expected set to begin on July 6th and is expected set to begin on July 6th and is expected to last through the week. Let's get to last through the week. Let's get to last through the week. Let's get first, Vinnie, to this violation of the first, Vinnie, to this violation of the first, Vinnie, to this violation of the gag order. So, for everybody listening, gag order. So, for everybody listening, gag order. So, for everybody listening, here's here's the quickest way to here's here's the quickest way to here's here's the quickest way to understand what happened. Uh, the ATF understand what happened. Uh, the ATF understand what happened. Uh, the ATF had a report where they said they could had a report where they said they could had a report where they said they could not match the bullet fragment recovered not match the bullet fragment recovered not match the bullet fragment recovered to the rifle, the suspect rifle, but to the rifle, the suspect rifle, but to the rifle, the suspect rifle, but that's all it said. They couldn't make a that's all it said. They couldn't make a that's all it said. They couldn't make a match. It was unconclusive. match. It was unconclusive. match. It was unconclusive. The defense wrote a motion where they The defense wrote a motion where they The defense wrote a motion where they put that statement into their motion, put that statement into their motion, put that statement into their motion, but they did it in a way that was less but they did it in a way that was less but they did it in a way that was less than clear, I think, is being generous. than clear, I think, is being generous. than clear, I think, is being generous. Media outlets picked that up and ran Media outlets picked that up and ran Media outlets picked that up and ran with it, saying ballistics report uh with it, saying ballistics report uh with it, saying ballistics report uh exonerates Robinson. Robinson, you know, exonerates Robinson. Robinson, you know, exonerates Robinson. Robinson, you know, kind of almost asserting the idea that kind of almost asserting the idea that kind of almost asserting the idea that he was not guilty because they cannot he was not guilty because they cannot he was not guilty because they cannot match the bullet to the rifle, which is match the bullet to the rifle, which is match the bullet to the rifle, which is not true. So the prosecution not true. So the prosecution not true. So the prosecution said so. They told media outlets, "No, said so. They told media outlets, "No, said so. They told media outlets, "No, no, no, no. This is inconclusive and no, no, no. This is inconclusive and no, no, no. This is inconclusive and most importantly, it doesn't exclude the most importantly, it doesn't exclude the most importantly, it doesn't exclude the rifle." Okay, there's the quickest I can rifle." Okay, there's the quickest I can rifle." Okay, there's the quickest I can do to explain that. But there is a gag do to explain that. But there is a gag do to explain that. But there is a gag order in place. So my first question to order in place. So my first question to order in place. So my first question to you though is if you're the judge, do you though is if you're the judge, do you though is if you're the judge, do you view that as a violation of the gag you view that as a violation of the gag you view that as a violation of the gag order or do you do that as them simply order or do you do that as them simply order or do you do that as them simply correcting misinformation that's in the correcting misinformation that's in the correcting misinformation that's in the public's um sphere?

public's um sphere? public's um sphere? >> Well, you have to understand where I >> Well, you have to understand where I >> Well, you have to understand where I come from. I come from a world where I come from. I come from a world where I come from. I come from a world where I don't believe in gag orders. don't believe in gag orders. don't believe in gag orders. >> There you go. Right. >> There you go. Right. >> There you go. Right. >> But um is it a violation? Uh I think >> But um is it a violation? Uh I think >> But um is it a violation? Uh I think it's a violation of the spirit of the it's a violation of the spirit of the it's a violation of the spirit of the gag order. I think I think gag order. I think I think gag order. I think I think >> in a case like this, you probably want >> in a case like this, you probably want >> in a case like this, you probably want to be more careful and maybe make a to be more careful and maybe make a to be more careful and maybe make a motion to the judge to see if you can motion to the judge to see if you can motion to the judge to see if you can make a statement to clarify the record make a statement to clarify the record make a statement to clarify the record because of what's being said. Um what I because of what's being said. Um what I because of what's being said. Um what I may have done is maybe um in my response may have done is maybe um in my response may have done is maybe um in my response to that motion made by the defense to that motion made by the defense to that motion made by the defense address it in the papers. So you do they address it in the papers. So you do they address it in the papers. So you do they filed something then we file something filed something then we file something filed something then we file something and you kind of speak through your and you kind of speak through your and you kind of speak through your papers. I think it was a a risky move. I papers. I think it was a a risky move. I papers. I think it was a a risky move. I think it was a little sloppy especially think it was a little sloppy especially think it was a little sloppy especially in light of this case especially in in light of this case especially in in light of this case especially in light of the fact that it's a a death light of the fact that it's a a death light of the fact that it's a a death penalty case. Um so I think it's it's a penalty case. Um so I think it's it's a penalty case. Um so I think it's it's a violation at a minimum of the spirit of violation at a minimum of the spirit of violation at a minimum of the spirit of it. But the to me the the the remedy the it. But the to me the the the remedy the it. But the to me the the the remedy the the the remedy is is do something to the the the remedy is is do something to the the the remedy is is do something to the prosecutors. Don't do something to to prosecutors. Don't do something to to prosecutors. Don't do something to to the system of justice to the people.

the system of justice to the people. the system of justice to the people. Like that that to me that doesn't equate Like that that to me that doesn't equate Like that that to me that doesn't equate to me but it could be the remedy. Like to me but it could be the remedy. Like to me but it could be the remedy. Like we've seen remedies like that before. In we've seen remedies like that before. In we've seen remedies like that before. In Lori Del's case, Lori Del cult mom. That Lori Del's case, Lori Del cult mom. That Lori Del's case, Lori Del cult mom. That was a death penalty case. was a death penalty case. was a death penalty case. >> Prosecutors messed up. The remedy was no >> Prosecutors messed up. The remedy was no >> Prosecutors messed up. The remedy was no death penalty. And the defense was death penalty. And the defense was death penalty. And the defense was jumping up and down. uh because jumping up and down. uh because jumping up and down. uh because ultimately in a death penalty case ultimately in a death penalty case ultimately in a death penalty case that's their first uh priority and their that's their first uh priority and their that's their first uh priority and their biggest concern always, especially in a biggest concern always, especially in a biggest concern always, especially in a case like this where the evidence of case like this where the evidence of case like this where the evidence of guilt is seemingly overwhelming. We'll guilt is seemingly overwhelming. We'll guilt is seemingly overwhelming. We'll see at trial obviously, but it's see at trial obviously, but it's see at trial obviously, but it's seemingly overwhelming. So, they're in seemingly overwhelming. So, they're in seemingly overwhelming. So, they're in the game to try to save the life. So, if the game to try to save the life. So, if the game to try to save the life. So, if anything happens, their their call for a anything happens, their their call for a anything happens, their their call for a remedy will always be get rid of the remedy will always be get rid of the remedy will always be get rid of the death penalty. death penalty. death penalty. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I agree with you. I >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I agree with you. I >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I agree with you. I think they finally kind of showed their think they finally kind of showed their think they finally kind of showed their hand here when asking for the death hand here when asking for the death hand here when asking for the death penalty to be removed because they've we penalty to be removed because they've we penalty to be removed because they've we have seen exhaustive amount of have seen exhaustive amount of have seen exhaustive amount of litigation in this case and we haven't litigation in this case and we haven't litigation in this case and we haven't even got to the prelim yet. It's really even got to the prelim yet. It's really even got to the prelim yet. It's really dragging on and if you want to know why, dragging on and if you want to know why, dragging on and if you want to know why, well, I think it all comes down to what well, I think it all comes down to what well, I think it all comes down to what they revealed in asking for the removal they revealed in asking for the removal they revealed in asking for the removal of the death penalty is this all comes of the death penalty is this all comes of the death penalty is this all comes down to them somehow trying to get that down to them somehow trying to get that down to them somehow trying to get that off of the table. And I agree with you off of the table. And I agree with you off of the table. And I agree with you too. Well, at least I should say this.

too. Well, at least I should say this. too. Well, at least I should say this. the defense agrees with you that it was the defense agrees with you that it was the defense agrees with you that it was a violation of the gag order because a violation of the gag order because a violation of the gag order because there's other things they could have there's other things they could have there's other things they could have done. They could have gone to the judge. done. They could have gone to the judge. done. They could have gone to the judge. They could have, like you said, put it They could have, like you said, put it They could have, like you said, put it in their own motion. The prosecution in their own motion. The prosecution in their own motion. The prosecution kind of said, listen, it's that old old kind of said, listen, it's that old old kind of said, listen, it's that old old idea that uh the lie a lie has made its idea that uh the lie a lie has made its idea that uh the lie a lie has made its way around the world before the truth way around the world before the truth way around the world before the truth has a chance to get its boots on. Was has a chance to get its boots on. Was has a chance to get its boots on. Was kind of their thinking is that we had to kind of their thinking is that we had to kind of their thinking is that we had to address this quickly. We'll see if the address this quickly. We'll see if the address this quickly. We'll see if the judge buys it because he continues to judge buys it because he continues to judge buys it because he continues to put this on. Which kind of brings me to put this on. Which kind of brings me to put this on. Which kind of brings me to my next question here is that this case my next question here is that this case my next question here is that this case seems to be extraordinary in the amount seems to be extraordinary in the amount seems to be extraordinary in the amount of time that it's taking in court and of time that it's taking in court and of time that it's taking in court and the amount of time that it's taking to the amount of time that it's taking to the amount of time that it's taking to get to prelim. Do you think this is the get to prelim. Do you think this is the get to prelim. Do you think this is the judge doing his job or is this now the judge doing his job or is this now the judge doing his job or is this now the defense taking advantage of a judge defense taking advantage of a judge defense taking advantage of a judge being probably more generous with his being probably more generous with his being probably more generous with his patience than he should be? patience than he should be? patience than he should be? Yeah, I I I I think what we're seeing is Yeah, I I I I think what we're seeing is Yeah, I I I I think what we're seeing is the defense taking advantage because the the defense taking advantage because the the defense taking advantage because the clock is on their side. You know, the clock is on their side. You know, the clock is on their side. You know, the the the longer it takes to get to a the the longer it takes to get to a the the longer it takes to get to a prelim is the longer it takes to get to prelim is the longer it takes to get to prelim is the longer it takes to get to a trial, things can happen.

a trial, things can happen. a trial, things can happen. Things can happen. The mood of the Things can happen. The mood of the Things can happen. The mood of the public can change. Witnesses can public can change. Witnesses can public can change. Witnesses can disappear. Evidence can disappear. I disappear. Evidence can disappear. I disappear. Evidence can disappear. I mean, it just opens up the possibilities mean, it just opens up the possibilities mean, it just opens up the possibilities of so many different things happening. I of so many different things happening. I of so many different things happening. I I think there's an advantage for a I think there's an advantage for a I think there's an advantage for a defendant that goes to trial very very defendant that goes to trial very very defendant that goes to trial very very quickly in a very complicated case where quickly in a very complicated case where quickly in a very complicated case where prosecutors can't line everything up. prosecutors can't line everything up. prosecutors can't line everything up. Um, but in a case like this, I think Um, but in a case like this, I think Um, but in a case like this, I think what the defense is going to do is what the defense is going to do is what the defense is going to do is there's no harm in delay because they there's no harm in delay because they there's no harm in delay because they know the the level of evidence they know the the level of evidence they know the the level of evidence they have. And you know, the longer we wait, have. And you know, the longer we wait, have. And you know, the longer we wait, we we've seen it before. You know, we we've seen it before. You know, we we've seen it before. You know, things will happen, especially in a things will happen, especially in a things will happen, especially in a high-profile case. Especially in a high-profile case. Especially in a high-profile case. Especially in a high-profile case because people will high-profile case because people will high-profile case because people will talk about it. People will come out of talk about it. People will come out of talk about it. People will come out of the woodworks. You have a million the woodworks. You have a million the woodworks. You have a million journalists and independent journalists journalists and independent journalists journalists and independent journalists that are digging up different facts and that are digging up different facts and that are digging up different facts and talking to people and and something may talking to people and and something may talking to people and and something may happen. They don't know what it is, but happen. They don't know what it is, but happen. They don't know what it is, but something may happen that may help them. something may happen that may help them. something may happen that may help them. So, I I if I'm the judge, I'm I'm kind So, I I if I'm the judge, I'm I'm kind So, I I if I'm the judge, I'm I'm kind of like going to rain everybody in and of like going to rain everybody in and of like going to rain everybody in and let's get this done.

let's get this done. let's get this done. >> Yeah. And I think he needs to do that. >> Yeah. And I think he needs to do that. >> Yeah. And I think he needs to do that. And to his credit, he has kept the And to his credit, he has kept the And to his credit, he has kept the prelim date on July 6th. They've had prelim date on July 6th. They've had prelim date on July 6th. They've had plenty of opportunity to ask for it to plenty of opportunity to ask for it to plenty of opportunity to ask for it to be continued. He's denied those recent be continued. He's denied those recent be continued. He's denied those recent requests. It looks like we are going to requests. It looks like we are going to requests. It looks like we are going to be back in court on July 6th to hear be back in court on July 6th to hear be back in court on July 6th to hear this prelim this prelim this prelim mercifully. mercifully. mercifully. But that is our uh that is our show for But that is our uh that is our show for But that is our uh that is our show for this week. Vinnie, it's always a this week. Vinnie, it's always a this week. Vinnie, it's always a pleasure to speak with you. You got a pleasure to speak with you. You got a pleasure to speak with you. You got a lot going on. Uh some new stuff. Fill us lot going on. Uh some new stuff. Fill us lot going on. Uh some new stuff. Fill us all in. Where can people find you? all in. Where can people find you? all in. Where can people find you? >> Sure. So, um, on Court TV's YouTube >> Sure. So, um, on Court TV's YouTube >> Sure. So, um, on Court TV's YouTube channel, every night, uh, Monday through channel, every night, uh, Monday through channel, every night, uh, Monday through Friday, new episode of Vinnie Palitan Friday, new episode of Vinnie Palitan Friday, new episode of Vinnie Palitan Investigates, the show can also be seen Investigates, the show can also be seen Investigates, the show can also be seen on television at 8:00 every night. Um, on television at 8:00 every night. Um, on television at 8:00 every night. Um, so two opportunities, whether you're a so two opportunities, whether you're a so two opportunities, whether you're a person who's, you know, online in the person who's, you know, online in the person who's, you know, online in the true crime community or if you're at true crime community or if you're at true crime community or if you're at home watching your your television, 8:00 home watching your your television, 8:00 home watching your your television, 8:00 on TV and then, you know, a little bit on TV and then, you know, a little bit on TV and then, you know, a little bit beforehand on YouTube, you can check it beforehand on YouTube, you can check it beforehand on YouTube, you can check it out and it stays there forever. So, in out and it stays there forever. So, in out and it stays there forever. So, in case you're away on vacation, you can case you're away on vacation, you can case you're away on vacation, you can catch up. I love it. Love it. Please catch up. I love it. Love it. Please catch up. I love it. Love it. Please check it out, everybody. Well worth it.

check it out, everybody. Well worth it. check it out, everybody. Well worth it. Always uh so fun, my friend. I am your Always uh so fun, my friend. I am your Always uh so fun, my friend. I am your host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on host, Josh Ritter. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Joshua Ritter Instagram and Twitter at Joshua Ritter Instagram and Twitter at Joshua Ritter Esq. And if you want to hear my thoughts Esq. And if you want to hear my thoughts Esq. And if you want to hear my thoughts and coverage on even more true crime and coverage on even more true crime and coverage on even more true crime cases, please check out my YouTube cases, please check out my YouTube cases, please check out my YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. And you channel, Courtroom Confidential. And you channel, Courtroom Confidential. And you can of course find all of your sidebar can of course find all of your sidebar can of course find all of your sidebar episodes wherever we you get your episodes wherever we you get your episodes wherever we you get your podcast. and we would love to hear from podcast. and we would love to hear from podcast. and we would love to hear from you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you. If you've got questions or comments you'd like us to address, please tweet you'd like us to address, please tweet you'd like us to address, please tweet us your questions with the hashtag TCN us your questions with the hashtag TCN us your questions with the hashtag TCN sidebar. And thank you for joining us at sidebar. And thank you for joining us at sidebar. And thank you for joining us at the True Crime News Sidebar.